Are you a young white man who just can t seem to get a stable job that will afford a home, a family, and a modest lifestyle? Well, have no fear. Panda Express is hiring assistant managers for $70,000 a year, or you could work at Chipotle stuffing burritos for $100,000 in a few years. Now, it seems silly, but this is real advice being offered by conservative, and I'm putting conservative in quotation marks, journalists and pundits. If after all, they managed to make their own big break a decade or two ago, then there's no reason that you can t walk into a suit and tie and be offered a great job by simply having a solid handshake and a smile.
00:03:12.040In Toronto here, for example, if you take the average income and the average house price, it would take use 29 years to save up for a down payment for a down payment, not to pay it off, forget paying it off.0.99
00:03:26.020And so if you're a young woman who's got a biological clock, obviously, we'll do the math.0.94
00:03:30.400You're going to be in your 50s before you can afford the average house.1.00
00:03:34.480All right, guys, thanks for joining us today.
00:03:36.900uh if you're wondering what was going on during that cold open uh we had written it out and so
00:03:42.640i was doing my best to read but over uh the screen where it was written there was another screen
00:03:48.740covering up a good 30 of the words so i couldn't read it and then some of you might be wondering i
00:03:54.800saw in the live chat somebody said hey somebody's walking in front of the camera well that was
00:03:58.780michael god bless him he did the right thing i was just sitting here like well you're in for the
00:04:02.300long haul hope it goes well michael was trying to run over to nathan to say hey um basically the
00:04:08.100entire teleprompter is covered by another screen and joel is literally just from memory guessing
00:04:13.280right now which is what i was doing so to read a three-minute script um this is the last one i've
00:04:18.400written in a while too today i was like we got a longer one it was a three-minute script and wes
00:04:22.800even talked to me before he wrote it and he said do you think you can uh read a three-minute script
00:04:26.740without messing up and i should have said i didn't i said yes what i should have said is
00:04:31.260yes, if I can see it, if it's actually on the screen, which it was not, unfortunately.
00:04:36.640But we got through it. I think you get the main point. So Oren McIntyre, he's going to be joining
00:04:41.080us at 3.30 Central Time, 3.30 PM Central Time. So we've got about 25 minutes or so to outline
00:04:49.040this episode for you. And basically, the big idea of what I was saying is that right now,
00:04:55.560it is not a great time to be a young man especially to be a young white man well i'm not a i'm not
00:05:02.260white are you discluding me yes um not everybody's included in everything um if you are a young black
00:05:09.480man uh the last eight years were easier for you that's just the truth and on average not every
00:05:16.760single person comparatively we're speaking of dynamics right so if you were it's like well i
00:05:21.620was a young black man, but I'm a quadriplegic. Okay, well, that's different. Okay, there, of
00:05:25.860course, there are exceptions. But in generalities in group dynamics, from about 2015, and you could
00:05:33.320argue earlier, but definitely 2015, all the way up until 2024. Yes, if you were a young white man,
00:05:41.340you had added, added disadvantages that a person of color did not have. And so we are talking to
00:05:49.380everybody, but we are especially talking to young, white, heterosexual Christian men who have,0.52
00:05:56.440our culture has essentially said, our economy, our culture, our society, and sadly, even many
00:06:01.180of their churches has essentially said that we don't care about you, and there is nothing for
00:06:08.700you. And a lot of the advice and counsel that you'll get from older men, should you seek out
00:06:13.440godly, mature older men, especially older Christian men, in order to give counsel and
00:06:19.640advice, of course. But you have to recognize that a lot of the advice they're giving is not
00:06:24.600malicious necessarily. We're not saying that it's on purpose or intentional, but it is still just
00:06:30.160a reality that the advice that a boomer is giving, if he's giving the kind of advice of practical
00:06:37.160things for earning an income and getting married, these kinds of things that worked for him,
00:06:41.220well the reality is those things don't work anymore when a boomer says well all you need to
00:06:45.740you know dress not for the job you have but for the job that you want you know buy you know clean
00:06:51.480yourself up you know why don't you shave your beard get a haircut you know put on a nice suit
00:06:56.240and a tie go in with a firm handshake and smile and that look him in the eye look him in the eye
00:07:01.800young man and stop being so lazy you know and stop whining um yeah that's great if you're a young0.84
00:07:08.200black man let's just be honest and if you're a young black man who can wear glasses that's even0.98
00:07:14.960better i mean they did an entire episode on curb your enthusiasm right one of the black characters0.81
00:07:21.000throughout the entire episode he didn't need glasses but he got a fake pair non-prescription
00:07:26.000glasses and he put them on and they were mocking but there's some truth in it they were mocking0.53
00:07:29.960the fact that you know he all of a sudden he was well received by the the upper echelon of white
00:07:35.800society, a bunch of boomers that had money and affluence and influence and jobs. And they were
00:07:41.840laughing at it, but they were laughing at it for a reason. It was comedy. It's fiction, a fictional
00:07:46.720story, curb your enthusiasm. But they made a joke about it for a reason, for a reason. It wasn't
00:07:53.920completely random. And so, yeah, the game has changed. The world has changed. And there are
00:08:00.220certain things that used to work that don't work anymore. Right. When a boomer says, well, you think
00:08:05.460interest rates are bad today. I remember in the seventies, you know, we had, uh, our home had an
00:08:09.90018, 17, 18% interest rate. Yeah. Your, your home, uh, that, that the principal was $48,000.
00:08:19.020I'll take that. Something like, uh, like four times your median average wage. So in real terms,
00:08:24.860cause you would say like, well, it was less the cost of the home, but then the wages were less
00:08:29.080too. But think in terms, not just of raw, like 50,000, a hundred thousand, but think in terms
00:08:33.340of how many times my yearly income does it take? And we'll show the graph in a minute, but like
00:08:38.000a tiny amount compared to what you would need now. Because they might say, well, but we only
00:08:42.560made 30 grand a year. Okay. But your house was 48,000. So you're talking about in that kind of
00:08:48.720scenario, your house is barely over 50% one year's income. Whereas now people are looking at $400,000
00:08:56.520houses, and their income is $70,000 or $80,000. So wages have maybe a little over doubled,
00:09:04.600but the housing prices have multiplied by 10x, right? This is just basic math. And crying about
00:09:13.520it, of course, crying about it doesn't solve the problem. Nobody's saying that it does.
00:09:18.220But there's something to be said. I mean, even pastorally or as a father, when you're counseling
00:09:23.100one of your sons or daughters, as a pastor who's counseling one of his parishioners,
00:09:29.140one of the things that you want to do if they say, hey, I've been devastated by this situation
00:09:37.640or this person wronged me, you want to determine whether or not, first and foremost, it's actually
00:09:44.100true. But if it's true, then you can actually sympathize with someone and say, oh my goodness,
00:18:27.58094 of these jobs went to people of color six percent of them went to white men to whites
00:18:37.120so out of these top companies out of 320 000 jobs that have been added only six percent went to
00:18:44.240basically the stock the founders of this nation you think about the founding fathers when they
00:18:48.940said for our uh for us and our posterity for for our people the founders would be just rolling over
00:18:56.460in their graves they would be enraged yes you did what to our children and all of these dots right
00:19:02.460here like just think about the u.s so it's about 55 to 60 percent white or so and then a groupings
00:19:07.340of different people say say it landed on along those lines right 15 to 20 percent black if you're
00:19:13.22050 60 percent white those those fallings out you wouldn't see you wouldn't look at that and say
00:19:18.700unequal weights and measures were definitely utilized here but you look at the dots there
00:19:23.520And every one of those dots represents, to a high degree, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 generations of Americans, young men that were looking for a good job.
00:19:35.020And once you get a job, what typically happens when a man is stable, affords a home, he lives somewhere for a while, so he's able to date and then marry, is children.
00:19:43.560You can think of many of those dots as representing young men who entered the workforce, 2021, 2022, 2023,
00:19:49.840and they had to settle for something much less
00:19:52.720to make much less money, to move around more.
00:27:32.320but I can see with my own eyes that something is wrong.
00:27:34.640not sure what to believe here did you say i'm doing just fine i'm mewing just fine i'm doing
00:27:41.760just fine i'm i'm doing just fine chris ruffo he's here to help he said this is basically he's
00:27:48.320referring to the unemployment numbers full employment so the unemployment rate is about
00:27:52.9604.1 percent which for the record a lot of men they've actually there's a new category which
00:27:57.960would be they've left the workforce so when we say unemployment there's 4.1 percent people
00:28:01.980of working force that's unemployed that's actually there are millions and millions of men that they
00:28:07.340just they've stopped looking for jobs they've either moved back in with their family they're
00:28:10.680on some type of disability and so it's not capturing those it's simply saying of those
00:28:14.200that are looking for work and we know we're still looking for work only four percent of them are
00:28:18.080unemployed so chris ruffo said this is basically full employment the panda express near my house
00:28:22.640is offering 70k a year plus benefits for the assistant manager you can make 100k a year working
00:28:27.680at chipotle for a few years and working up to the store manager i have a couple other examples but
00:28:34.400this is the one that really got people because in all of what we just said home prices cost of
00:28:41.560living food inflation cars the advice is well go uh go serve orange chicken for 70k a year and that
00:28:51.300should be so young man you're concerned about a family you're concerned about a stable uh like a
00:28:56.060stable home life you're concerned about an inheritance right so you're saving not just
00:28:59.340to be able to retire hopefully at some point but an inheritance and uh and the advice is is there's
00:29:04.800tons of places where you can work for a job that's that's not going to take you very far
00:29:08.980and you should be happy about it there's an abundance out there what's the big fuss essentially
00:29:14.840so that gives you guys the lay of the land that sets the framework for this episode we're going
00:29:20.120to go to our first commercial break and then we'll come back with orrin mcintyre our sponsor
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00:31:03.300All right, we are back and we should have Oren McIntyre ready to join the show.
00:31:07.560there he is orin thanks for coming on hey guys how's it going it's going it is going so we've
00:31:13.940been watching you a little bit on x you're coming to our conference by the way i got to plug that
00:31:17.860real quick so april 3rd 4th and 5th the year of our lord 2025 it's a thursday friday saturday we've
00:31:23.500got steve days we've got orin mcintyre he'll be there we've got calvin robinson we've got
00:31:27.760all the ogden boys from new christened press we've got andrew isker and cj angle and dr
00:31:33.180Stephen Wolf, and a whole host of others. So we're really excited. John Harris, Aidy Robles,
00:31:38.760really excited about this conference. The Christian prince himself, Dusty Devers,
00:31:42.820the senator, Dusty Devers, forgive me. So we're excited about that conference. But I've been
00:31:47.500following you for a while, Oren, and we connected and you were gracious enough to come to the
00:31:51.200conference. You had me on your show. I've had you a couple of times, but I've been watching you over
00:31:55.200the last, well, really since Christmas, since the whole H-1B and Vivek, who came out of hibernation
00:32:02.700today on X. God bless him. He's ready now that Trump's going to be inaugurated to show his face
00:32:09.400again and hope that we all forgot that he's for India first instead of America first. But you've
00:32:17.140been doing a great job. And so can you just kind of, I don't know, way into the discussion? We
00:32:21.280already showed the tweet from Chris Ruffo. And what do you think's going on here and how do we
00:32:26.140fix it i think that there's kind of this default mode uh that most conservatives fall into which
00:32:34.280is everybody needs some tough love right you gotta you gotta tell the kids to get out there
00:32:38.680get off the video games you know touch some grass uh go go work hard and that'll just fix everything
00:32:45.440right and obviously one-on-one like clean up your room work hard like that's good advice if if i
00:32:53.420have a friend and he's down on his luck he can't pay his bills the kids aren't getting food on
00:32:58.660their plate and there's a job at a panda express and the question is hey or would you tell that
00:33:04.040guy to go work at panda express answers yeah of course like yes like you shouldn't be drawing0.97
00:33:09.940welfare you shouldn't be sitting on your butt playing a video game while your kids are starving0.85
00:33:14.100or you can't you know pay your bills like this is not beneath you you should do this work however0.97
00:33:19.320However, when your job is literally to shape public policy, when you are a leader of men, you can't just tell everybody, oh, well, I mean, the system's kind of screwed, but just work hard.
00:33:32.080When you spend literally years saying, hey, Bidenomics is failing, inflation is out of control, illegal immigration is destroying opportunity and social fabric, the ability to form families, get married is under assault.
00:33:46.080you know we are uncovering these DEI programs that specifically target men and specifically0.53
00:33:51.400target white men and they're not allowed to go to college and get ahead and get hired when you
00:33:56.620literally make a career pointing all of this stuff out you can't just be like oh well Trump got
00:34:02.360elected uh just go work hard I guess like no you you need a plan you have to show people that you
00:34:07.700care and you notice the problems and yes they need to work hard they can't just wallow in self-pity
00:34:12.860but you are taking action to change the system that you know and have talked about is failing
00:34:19.880agreed yeah so um i mean i what do you think it is i mean i feel like immigration is
00:34:29.700a major factor i feel like we're finally at the place where you know illegal immigration of course
00:34:34.600that's off the table but it seems like as conservatives um and even some christians
00:34:39.580Christians, sadly, per usual, are not really leading the charge, but instead kind of,
00:34:46.040you know, would it Ben Shapiro say, okay, all right, well, you know, it's safe to say it now,0.98
00:34:50.060you know. But it does seem like the conversation of legal, not illegal, but legal immigration is
00:34:56.840finally on the table where we're like, yeah, maybe not a ton of that either. That seems a
00:35:03.540little bit hopeful. What do you think? Yeah, no, it's definitely a good sign. I want people to
00:35:08.400understand that, yes, it was annoying to have Elon and Vivek come out on Christmas Day and say,
00:35:14.340well, we kind of need infinite foreigners to take the jobs that you really want to do. Yeah,0.76
00:35:19.140before we were saying, you know, immigrants do jobs that Americans don't want to do. But now1.00
00:35:23.480we're specifically bringing them in to do jobs you absolutely want to do and are going to college
00:35:28.180to do. Like, that's very frustrating. However, the very fact that the conversation has shifted
00:35:33.820away from open borders and infinite illegal immigration instead to how much legal immigration
00:35:40.660should we have is itself a great sign that is momentum in our direction that is a victory
00:35:45.980yes we still have to fight these fights yes we still have to hash out the coalition as it was
00:35:51.540created to get trump elected these are all just parts of the political process you you get a
00:35:57.040coalition together for politics and then once the victory comes you got to have the internal you
00:36:02.260kind of struggle session. Unfortunately, it would be great if that wasn't the way that politics
00:36:06.740worked, but it just is. And so no one should be defeated. No one should be down on themselves
00:36:12.340because this conversation is taking place. You're only having this conversation because of a
00:36:17.020victory. You just can't stop after the victory. That's what conservatives always do. You win the
00:36:21.860election and then they just stop paying attention to what's going on. And what I'm hoping and what
00:36:26.180many people are hoping is that we can keep the attention focus and we can actually continue that
00:36:30.920victory, not just get Trump across the finish line, but actually get the things that were
00:36:34.820promised that people who support Trump really want. Right. Yeah, I agree. There's a comment
00:36:41.040real quick I want to read because I think it's insightful. It's from Glorious and Free Ministries
00:36:44.500says it'll be nice when evangelical boomers prioritize telling third worlders in Africa
00:36:51.100and elsewhere who can't properly feed their own 10 children to pull themselves up by their bootstraps
00:36:57.400instead of uh telling that to their own struggling children here in america um and now i i personally
00:37:05.500you know this is my position i would advocate for neither but point taken i think it's a good point
00:37:10.520uh do you think orin that it's a bit ironic perchance even we could use a word as strong
00:37:17.180as hypocritical that um that you never see that type of rhetoric levied against the third world
00:37:23.380You never see, right, like we would never look at Uganda and say, well, you know, they're just lazy, you know, maybe if they just worked a little bit harder, you know, and why aren't they wearing a suit and a tie when they go to the job interview, you know, and firm handshake and look the employer in the eyes, you know, with a warm smile, you know, worked for me, why doesn't it work for them?0.54
00:37:43.780um and like what i'm saying is we would immediately recognize well wait a second there's actually such0.76
00:37:49.740a thing in nations as um corrupt elites who actually make things impossible so it's it's not
00:37:56.980fair uh entirely like yeah you still have to you know work with with the the hand that you've been
00:38:02.780dealt and so we can talk about that all day long but but before you talk about how to um how to
00:38:07.860dig yourself out of a hole when you're starting at a disadvantage it's first very helpful um to
00:38:13.620recognize that the disadvantage actually exists, that you actually have a disadvantage, and then
00:38:17.660begin talking about solutions. But my point is, it seems as though Americans, and especially
00:38:23.340evangelicals, and especially boomers, but that the older generation of Christians here in America
00:38:30.080are, it's like nobody has to sit them down and show them a chart or graphs or statistics or even
00:38:37.140or even history books or or um or the the politics of uganda or the politics of the sudan they
00:38:43.420instinctively understand um that it's the elite's fault in these other nations and that the people
00:38:50.420there that the actual citizens are being oppressed and that the poverty is induced right now like i
00:38:56.800don't know any christian boomer any christian over the age of you know 65 who's saying man
00:39:01.660the north koreans gosh they're lazy you know like um they would say no they're poor but the the
00:39:08.860poverty can be tracked back to sin poverty is always linked to sin but it's not always linked0.99
00:39:13.800to your sin right it's not always um i'm poor and it's my sin it can sometimes be and often
00:39:20.820throughout world history um it can be i'm poor and it's your sin it's somebody else who's actually
00:39:25.600made me impoverished and and it seems like americans and christian americans and older
00:39:31.200Americans instinctively understand this with every nation except for our own. So in this house,
00:39:37.100I got this from you, Warren, in this house, we believe in elite theory. Can you talk a little
00:39:41.300bit about that for our listeners? Sure, absolutely. And one of the things that I focus on a lot in my
00:39:46.380work, my writing, and my show is a school of political theory called Italian elite theory.
00:39:51.820And really, it comes from Machiavelli and moves through guys like Vilfredo Pareto and Gaetano
00:39:58.600Mosca and Robert Michels. And ultimately what these guys were trying to highlight is that
00:40:04.780every civilization is ultimately influenced and run by its elite. And that's not to say that the
00:40:12.160elite aren't influenced by the common people and religion and culture and everything else,
00:40:18.520but that the tastemakers and the movers of the levers of power ultimately do a lot more to kind
00:40:24.640of inform the citizenry and create their situations then vice versa and so if you want to understand
00:40:30.920the mechanics of a civil civilization its culture the way things are moving the best thing to do is
00:40:37.000to focus on its elites now what a lot of people worry about what a lot of the kind of the mainstream
00:40:43.400conservative commentators that were kind of digging into this whereas that ultimately this
00:40:47.960creates a kind of helplessness right that this creates a victim mentality and of course we see
00:40:53.740this on the left. We see this with Marxist-based class analysis, right? Well, the elites control
00:40:58.380everything. There's nothing we can do. They're all corrupt. We got to get rid of them. And in
00:41:02.180the meantime, well, just, you know, be lazy. You can blame everything on them. We absolutely want
00:41:07.540to avoid that. They are right to say that that is not the mentality that you should have. We have
00:41:12.160to cultivate virtue in the population. Young men need the virtue that comes with hard work and
00:41:18.540ambition. But what is the real disconnect here, I think, is understanding the well-being of the
00:41:25.340people. Ultimately, right, we want men to work hard, but we want them to work hard because it's
00:41:30.700meaningful, because it's connecting to something that matters. Telling someone to put 80 hours
00:41:35.320into Panda Express or Chipotle every week just makes them a cog in the machine. They have no
00:41:41.380agency. They are simply under a bunch of managers and bureaucrats. Now, telling a man to work 80
00:41:47.040hours opening his own restaurant giving him the ability to build something that he can pass on to
00:41:53.060his children that is a radically different thing but there was just this huge disconnect i think
00:41:59.240from a lot of people who are worried that all these young zuber men are just going to sit around and
00:42:04.040you know they're going to blame society and of course that does exist i'm not pretending that
00:42:08.280there aren't you know lazy or entitled people that you know young people don't need to learn
00:42:12.640the value of work but ultimately you build the right to tell a man to give him that advice to
00:42:19.220give him that tough love speech because you've shown that you care about him as elite you have
00:42:24.120a responsibility to first show that you care about and you are working towards the betterment of
00:42:30.240someone and then you can look in the eye and say and by the way now that i've made this easier for
00:42:35.000you you need to get out there and get this done but you have to take the action first right well
00:42:40.540said uh west michael any thoughts uh all right i was interested in so when we talk about the0.81
00:42:46.780difficulties young men face it's kind of like well you know these gangs of asian men in britain are
00:42:51.580doing terrible things like well no it's a very specific subgroup within this and so we talk
00:42:56.780about young men it is specifically white men and you could blame it on dei so dei hiring practices
00:43:03.340the preference for people of color in in hiring and promoting and hiring them above uh white men0.63
00:43:09.020But I feel like, to me at least, that seems almost like a symptom of some type of underlying root cause.0.87
00:43:14.440I don't know if I could go as far back as the Civil Rights Act, kind of removing the freedom of association.0.95
00:43:19.280Where would you say the train came off the tracks as far as these big companies really got it in their veins, got it in their mindset to really set to the side, push aside and bring in, I mean, certainly immigrants for sure.0.54
00:43:34.480but just generally a preference for people of color at the expense of white European Christian
00:43:41.120men. Like you said, this goes back pretty far, and the Civil Rights Act is pretty central to this.
00:43:47.360A lot of people think of the Civil Rights Act in its first iteration, right, where it specifically
00:43:52.440says that this can't be used to discriminate against anyone or elevate anyone based on their
00:43:58.940race, including white people. However, what we've seen over time is as civil rights law has
00:44:04.500developed, as the different layers of law have been added, court decisions and these kind of
00:44:09.160things, this is altered radically. Specifically, the most pernicious one is the ruling in Griggs
00:44:14.580versus Duke Power, which created the idea of disparate impact. And this is a policy that says
00:44:21.480anything that affects any racial group disproportionately is automatically prima
00:44:27.580facie evidence of discrimination you don't need to intentionally discriminate if there are any
00:44:33.560differences then you are discriminating no matter what and this leads to modern decisions for
00:44:38.480instance uh the biden administration uh sued their department of justice sued a gas station company
00:44:45.160and actually won the judgment because they were using criminal background checks and
00:44:49.740disproportionately minorities are more represented in criminal background checks so fewer minorities
00:44:55.000were getting hired. That meant that checking criminal backgrounds was evidence of racism and
00:45:00.740a violation of the Civil Rights Act. Now, this court ruling is so bad that it was basically
00:45:06.580repealed through court law, but then it was reintroduced and codified into the 1991 Civil
00:45:13.640Rights Act. So a lot of people hear the Civil Rights Act and they think, oh, well, this just
00:45:17.540makes everybody equal. But no, it literally makes it illegal for you to hire more white people if0.77
00:45:23.860they happen to not have a criminal record. And this radiates out into basically every interaction
00:45:29.980in our society. Yeah, I think one of the things that I realized a few years back was, you know,
00:45:36.600because at first it was like, well, let's just, you know, let's just not be woke, right? Let's
00:45:40.480be anti-woke. And, you know, even before that, you know, like 2017, 18, 19, preceding 2020 and,
00:45:49.460you know, the summer of love, mostly peaceful, you know, riots and things like that. In the
00:45:55.540church world, the conversation was all about social justice. And I was a part of a network
00:46:00.740at that time called Acts 29 Network that very much was beating the social justice drum. And
00:46:07.200I remember, you know, being bothered by it and starting to speak out against it. But at the time,
00:46:12.960Like most of the rhetoric, most of the defense against social justice in the church, a social justice gospel was, you know, we would say, well, that's a blurring of the gospel, right?
00:46:27.940Because the gospel is, it's grace and it's not works.
00:46:30.840And you're making, this is a works gospel because you're adding to the gospel.
00:46:34.460You're saying that, you know, you're blurring the lines and you're not just saying that we should do good things, you know, as a result, as an evidence of being saved by grace.
00:46:44.200But you're actually saying that we should do the gospel and the gospel is not something we do.
00:46:49.180So this is a works gospel where it's faith in Jesus plus being, you know, a social justice advocate and working towards, you know, protecting the poor from being oppressed or whatever.
00:46:59.480And so that was like the line of attack from conservative Christians, you know, and I was one of them. And I picked up that rhetoric probably 2017, 18, 19. It wasn't until about 2020 that I started to realize, well, you know, and then it became woke, you know, social justice, what wasn't, you know, woke became the thing.
00:47:17.740So we need to be not woke. But it wasn't until, you know, probably like 2020 that I started to
00:47:24.340realize, wait a second, like the problem here, it's not technically, it's not justice. Justice
00:47:30.920isn't a problem. Justice is a good thing. And the problem isn't even just wokeness, you know,
00:47:37.140that became a stand-in for social justice in regards to minority people. The problem is that
00:47:44.160it's all lies. Like what we need is truth. There is actually a theological problem in my view of
00:47:55.080blending salvation by grace alone and doing certain works in order to merit the favor and
00:48:01.880love of God. So there is a theological problem there. But the best of the social justice guys
00:48:07.460were careful enough theologically not to blur those lines. And so they would say, no, no, no,
00:48:11.120you know, we're not saying you do it to be saved, but we're saying that if you're saved,
00:48:15.000that salvation will be evidenced by doing good works. And there's no better work than to let
00:48:20.220justice roll down like mighty rivers. And what that means, you know, is basically everything
00:48:26.280that, you know, Martin Luther King preached and you need to be doing that. And so it wasn't,
00:48:30.960you know, for about three years from 2017 leading up to 2020, I, you know, I was hitting it from
00:48:36.900this angle of, well, don't blend social justice with the gospel, or don't be a racist towards
00:48:44.260black people. Just don't be a racist at all. Be colorblind. Don't see color at all. Race is0.78
00:48:50.320insignificant. It's not even a thing. It's just different shades of melanin, and there's just1.00
00:48:55.440one race, the human race, and all those kinds of things I picked up. And then it just finally hit
00:49:00.940me and I realized that the problem with the left is that it's not true. So the problem of saying
00:49:07.480that, you know, all these people of color are discriminated, one of the biggest problems with
00:49:11.340that is not because it focuses us on social justice or it takes us away from the gospel
00:49:16.680or this, that, and the other. The problem is it's fundamentally a lie. At the time that we were
00:49:23.920being told that people of color were being discriminated against, white people on the
00:49:30.700books were being discriminated against. And so now I'm of the frame of mind that, no,
00:49:39.480we do need to talk about justice. We just need to talk about it truthfully. We need to talk about
00:49:44.200justice as it pertains to those who really are experiencing injustice. And we need to talk about
00:49:51.460fixing those things, especially when a country is hating its own native citizens.
00:49:57.060But that kind of rhetoric, which is basically, you correct me if I'm wrong, Orrin, but
00:50:02.120from doing some of the reading, that kind of rhetoric seems to be the obvious no-duh from
00:50:09.800any writer who existed before 1945. But basically, what I've been told is that if you think the same
00:50:19.320way that every single person ever thought in the history of the world until about 70, 80 years ago,
00:50:26.400then you're woke. You're woke right. And there's a wonderful, brilliant, staunch conservative
00:50:33.800thinker, James Lindsay, who talks about this. What do you think about his conception of the
00:50:40.180woke right? And what do you think about what I'm talking about in terms of, no, we really do need
00:50:45.020to fight injustice but it needs to be actual injustice you know in the 1930s if you had come
00:50:53.500to me and said hey uh there is a actual racism like there are racist laws on the books i would
00:50:59.860have agreed with you and if you had said hey we need to change these laws so they don't discriminate
00:51:04.020against you know uh black people in america i'd be like well yes of course that's wrong um if you
00:51:10.440come to me in 2020 and tell me that that's the case then that's just obviously not true like
00:51:14.940It's just factually inaccurate that there are laws put in place that, you know, are on the books that actively discriminate against black Americans.
00:51:24.920However, if you told me in the 1930s that we needed to change something because white people were to be discriminated against, I would say, well, that doesn't seem right.
00:51:32.780It doesn't seem like those laws are on the books.0.59
00:51:34.760However, if in 2020 you told me that, well, I can literally point to affirmative action.
00:51:40.980I can literally point to Greggs versus Duke Power.
00:51:43.900These things exist. They are in the law. I don't understand why we needed to get rid of laws that specifically were biased against black Americans, but we don't need to get rid of laws that are specifically biased today against white Americans, mostly, and also Asian Americans, sometimes other groups as well.
00:52:02.640It just doesn't make any sense to me. And the problem was not that you needed to have justice. As you point out, the problem was the definition of justice, the fact that you were bending over backwards to create problems in the law that simply did not exist.
00:52:17.020I'm not asking for any special treatment for white people. I don't think we need white identity politics, but I think it's very stupid to pretend that noticing a literal law on the books that is actively limiting the ability of white people and most often white men to advance in society.0.93
00:52:36.880I don't think there's a problem with that. That doesn't turn you into a victim. I don't think you should build an entire BLM style movement around this. We don't need BLM or DEI for white people, which has now become the catchphrase. But when you're calling just having an immigration system or getting rid of active racist laws against white people, DEI for white people, now you're just being dishonest. Like now you are very obviously playing for your own advantage, not actually playing by the rules.0.96
00:53:06.880Yeah, well said. And for anybody who's listening, it's funny because I see you, you know, on social media, you know, particularly X and a lot of times guys like James Lindsay, who I was, you know, using facetiously just a moment ago, you know, make you out to be like some kind of far right extremist.
00:53:25.160And I'm listening to everything you said, and I think it's well said, and I agree with it 90%.
00:53:29.660And I'm thinking, Orrin McIntyre, one of my favorite, you know, centrist, just a moderate, you know, moderate conservative.
00:53:37.120Because I'm thinking, theoretically, in terms of arguments for permissibility.
00:53:41.000So I'm not saying what's ideal and what we should do tomorrow, you know, or any of that.
00:53:44.120But if we're just talking about, you know, permissibility, and we're talking about, you know, theoretically and political philosophy and me as a pastor, you know, blending some of that with my theological questions.
00:53:55.160convictions, then there's nothing wrong. There's nothing inherently immoral about a nation
00:53:59.840actually preferring, in our case, because America is unique, it wouldn't necessarily be white people
00:54:05.920in an exclusive sense. But if a nation prioritizes one faith, for instance, like I would advocate as
00:54:13.160a Christian nationalist, I would say, I'm happy to wear the moniker. I totally understand why some
00:54:16.980people don't. And I would be a part of the larger conversation on the team of, you know, new
00:54:20.880dissonant right, or the new Christian right, or whatever you want to call it, very much for that
00:54:26.780team and on that team. But I also like the moniker Christian nationalism. And so for me, as a proud
00:54:32.620Christian nationalist, I would say, yeah, in terms of permissibility, there would be nothing wrong0.79
00:54:38.320with America, which is a Christian nation. I would argue we're currently in apostasy, but in terms of0.88
00:54:44.000its founding, its origin, all those kinds of things, there's nothing wrong with a Christian
00:54:48.880nation, prioritizing in terms of faith, religion, saying, yeah, we're going to be, because America
00:54:55.220is also unique in the sense of its tolerance of those who have different views. And so I would
00:55:00.140like for America to still be America. It's not Sharia law, and that's not even compatible with0.98
00:55:05.400Christian theological convictions, but also not America and its culture and its founding and the
00:55:11.780people that we are. So, okay, so America will probably, if I was king for a day, America would
00:55:17.320always have, I think, some added measure of patience and tolerance and compassion in a way
00:55:24.380that many other parts of the world don't have when it comes to different religions. But blasphemy0.94
00:55:30.060would not be tolerated in the public square. You wouldn't have the police rounding up people who
00:55:34.420are Muslims or a different faith in their private homes. But in the public square, there wouldn't
00:55:39.860be blasphemy. There'd be things like that. I'm okay with blue laws, again, in terms of
00:55:44.080permissibility and conviction, those kinds of things. But there would be an exalting,
00:55:48.260so it's not necessarily putting everyone else out, but the esteeming of the Christian faith,
00:55:54.020right? Your holidays, national parades or ceremonies, they would be distinctly Christian,
00:56:00.960right? When you swear into office, it's a Christian Bible, the Quran, sorry, you can1.00
00:56:05.380privately read it in your home, but that doesn't work in a court of law. It needs to be the Bible,
00:56:09.260the word of God, the triune God. So there's nothing wrong in terms of permissibility on0.89
00:56:13.580the theological side of actually preferring the Christian faith, the faith of that particular
00:56:19.320nation. On the social side, there seems to me, in terms of arguments of permissibility,
00:56:25.160not saying we have to do it tomorrow, or that we'll even ever do it, but it doesn't seem as
00:56:29.780though there's anything inherently immoral about preferring also a particular people,0.62
00:56:34.700in our case with America being unique, it wasn't all white, it was predominantly white, but it
00:56:38.880wasn't all white, but I would just say heritage Americans, to say, yeah, we're going, and so what
00:56:43.200does that mean it means um that america would prefer those who can track their ancestry um
00:56:50.260to this this piece of land this country their fathers fought in our wars um and and they can
00:56:56.760do so more than just 15 minutes ago they didn't just arrive on an h-1b visa to take your job
00:57:03.520at at the you know the software company um you know yesterday but instead there's actually
00:57:10.340there is actually an esteeming and a preference given to Christian faith over other faiths and
00:57:17.200American heritage people over other people. And that doesn't mean that we have to be rude or
00:57:23.140anything like that. But it does mean that there's actually something to, there's something to be
00:57:29.880said for, this is my place. These are my people. This is, these are my traditions. This is my
00:57:35.220religion. Um, this is my country. And, and I think about that, you know, and the more I think about
00:57:41.200it, um, you know, cause people will say, well, um, if you want those good jobs and you just,
00:57:46.840you gotta, you gotta, um, you gotta compete, you know, you gotta be better. And, and I just,
00:57:51.240I think I would disagree on two levels. One, I would say, um, I don't think that Americans are
00:57:55.560fundamentally lazy, you know, because they watch too much, you know, boy meets world. I think I,
00:57:59.380I take great offense at that. Actually. Um, I think that the rest of the world, wherever we
00:58:04.440innovation. It's usually copying the innovation that happened in America. Americans are the most
00:58:10.260innovative, you know, the most ingenuity, like Americans have done incredible things. So one,
00:58:16.480I just, I disagree with that sentiment that we've got to, you know, all the geniuses, the next Tesla
00:58:21.760is going to be found in India, you know, and not America. I just statistically, I don't think
00:58:27.880that's true. And then secondly, I also think, but wait a second, it's your country. And if America
00:58:35.680first means America as a sports team beats in the global Olympics of widget factories, if that's
00:58:43.320what it means to be America first, then I would just say, then I'm perfectly content with America
00:58:48.460coming in second place or third place or 50th place if it means, if the price to be paid for0.61
00:58:54.040America first, is that America as a jersey, as a sports jersey, wins the Super Bowl of widget
00:59:01.300making, but American people are unemployed and devastated. I feel like the leaders of a country,
00:59:09.620their first priority has to be to their people above their country, you know, making trades with
00:59:17.280other teams, you know, with India or whatever, just to make sure that they win the Super Bowl of
00:59:21.900of who can colonize mars the fastest any thoughts on that yeah there's this guy samuel huntington
00:59:29.040and he's famous for his class of civilizations thesis but he was a professor at harvard he's a
00:59:34.740center-left guy actually but he wrote this great book called who are we and really huntington was
00:59:40.020looking after the cold war and said hey we had this weird moment where the entire world was
00:59:45.000basically set in this bifurcated scenario you were either communist or you were a capitalist you
00:59:50.700either United States or Soviet Union. And that kind of superseded the normal national identity.
00:59:56.660And now that that is gone, now that we have seen the end of the Cold War, we're going to start
01:00:01.280moving back towards traditional forms of identity. And that's going to become more and more
01:00:06.520important. Every nation is going to be defined by its more classic features and no longer by
01:00:10.480kind of this rough ideology of capitalism versus communism. And he said, we in the United States
01:00:17.160need to grapple with this question. Who are we? If we are going to return to a more traditional
01:00:22.060understanding of peoplehood, of nationhood, then we can't keep this idea of just being an abstract
01:00:27.800principle. We have to be grounded in what nations have been grounded in for pretty much all of
01:00:32.120history. And again, this guy is a center-left guy. He's not some right-wing bomb thrower. But in the
01:00:37.500book, he basically comes to the conclusion that America is an Anglo-Protestant nation, that
01:00:42.260everything about it all these principles that we love to talk about aren't just some abstract
01:00:47.480gnostic thing floating around it's grounded in a particular people a particular religion a
01:00:53.220particular tradition and heritage and understanding and of course being a man of the left he was not
01:00:57.840looking for any kind of hardline identity of you know anglo-protestantism he said people can join
01:01:03.240people must join they must assimilate but that is key they must assimilate they have to become
01:01:08.660part of that process we can't just leave identity off the table identity will continue to exist
01:01:15.380if you just leave it to the left then guess what happens they define it the same thing that
01:01:19.960happened when we tried to push religion out oh we're going to be a neutral country when it comes
01:01:23.720to religion well guess what we ended up with wokeness as the new religion because the left
01:01:27.820dominated all of those quote-unquote neutral spaces the same thing is going to be true of
01:01:32.880identity if you just abandon it as the right then guess who's going to control what the american
01:01:37.540identity is it's going to be the left and i think having an anglo-protestant core identity is
01:01:43.440critical again we are a nation that has always allowed people to join in that but we must make
01:01:48.660it the priority it has to be something that binds us together and by the way preferring a particular
01:01:53.620people is actually great for you it doesn't it's not just morally permissible spiritually
01:01:58.460permissible it's actually achieves a lot of the goals that conservatives and libertarians want
01:02:03.200to achieve because when you have a multicultural society you have conflicting worldviews of0.70
01:02:08.080conflicting moral visions and guess who can be the only person who can arbitrate that conflict0.95
01:02:14.080in every level from the personal to the political to the business interaction it's the government
01:02:19.520yes the state has to get involved so when you prefer a specific way of doing things everyone
01:02:25.800shares the same culture the same religion at least superficially at least as part of the culture
01:02:32.240then the state doesn't have to involve itself in every interaction because there is a baseline
01:02:36.840shared moral vision tradition understanding heritage that everyone can be a part of but
01:02:42.960when you create a multicultural society you necessarily grow the government because it's
01:02:47.740the only one that can dictate what's going to happen when all these other moral visions are
01:02:52.340clashing well said we're going to go to our final commercial break of the day and then we'll come
01:02:58.180back with Orin for our last segment. All right, the clock is running out. You need to go and
01:03:04.340register now for our Christ is King, How to Defeat Trash World Conference. It's happening
01:03:10.020the year of our Lord, 2025, April 3rd, 4th, and 5th. That's a Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.
01:03:17.240And by God's grace, we're able to provide for you an all-star lineup. We've got Steve Dace,
01:03:22.720Calvin Robinson, Orrin McIntyre, Dr. Stephen Wolfe, Eric Kahn, David Reese, Andrew Isker,
01:03:29.700John Harris, A.D. Robles, Dan Burkholder, Dusty Devers, Ben Garrett, C.J. Engel, and yours truly,
01:03:36.920Pastor Joel Webin. Come on out. Join us April 3rd, 4th and 5th, 2025, Thursday through a Saturday.
01:03:44.560go to rightresponseconference.com to register today. Again, that's rightresponseconference.com.
01:03:52.980Listen, guys, you probably listen to Right Response Ministries because
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01:05:11.820and all of finance for Christendom. All right, we are back. I'm going to give it to Michael Belch.
01:05:18.940He's going to ask some questions for Oren. Just one question. Oren, thanks for joining the show
01:05:22.980today. As you said earlier, the fact that we are having the discussion about immigration and even
01:05:30.020whether we ought to have some limits on our immigration policy is, in a sense, a victory.
01:07:18.960So I want to make it clear that just because we were having a disagreement on this doesn't mean that he doesn't have a large body of work to stand on and people shouldn't respect what he's done that's good.
01:07:28.280That said, there are a lot of kind of mechanical assumptions going into this.
01:07:33.040I'm somebody who grew up on conservative talk radio, listening to Rush Limbaugh and Dennis Prager and all these guys.
01:07:38.840And I learned a lot there and I had a lot of those kind of, you know, that mentality locked in for most of my life until just a few years ago.
01:07:47.100So it takes a while to turn this ship. There's a lot of reflex. And I think that's what we saw in the last few days here online was kind of this conservative rhetoric reflex rather than thinking through the implications of kind of the ideas that have been onboarded.
01:08:02.860The really odd thing is if you listen to J.D. Vance, he gave an interview in which he specifically addressed this topic and pointed out that kind of the workforce participation numbers were fake.
01:08:13.620And ultimately, it was important to give to prefer Americans over any foreigner and make sure that we're giving meaningful work to these guys.0.96
01:08:22.100It's kind of weird that all these people who have been rah, rah, rah for J.D. Vance over the last few years, and rightly so.1.00
01:08:27.500I think Vance is awesome. But the fact that they kind of just blew past this point that he himself has been making is very strange. Vance has also said explicitly, America is a nation. It is a people. It's not just an office park or an economic zone.
01:08:42.440again this is the rhetoric at the core of the trump uh you know a movement at this point jd
01:08:48.140vance is riding shotgun next to a president who's over 80 years old he's right next to power and
01:08:55.500you know the fact that he holds this belief i think ultimately underlines that this current
01:09:00.280is running very strong through kind of i guess what would people call the new right i really
01:09:04.520think it's the old right it's just the actual right coming back um but but that's what we need
01:09:09.320And hopefully that continues. I went to the National Conservatism Conference. J.D. Vance spoke there before he was declared as the vice presidential nominee. And his ideas were very much alive in that room. There were others. Veck was also there. He started selling this idea of libertarian nationalism. And I knew right then that things were not going to go well.
01:09:33.120that eventually we were going to get that knife in the back.
01:09:36.560But to be clear, guys like Vance don't just have a seat at the table.
01:09:40.240They are the guys at the head of the table.
01:10:37.800And again, it really all depends on what they do here.
01:10:41.020The fact that we need things like voter security and ID and if we close the borders, like so many of these things will permanently shape the way that elections operate inside the United States.
01:10:52.960They have a lot of opportunities to make significant changes that will not only better the lives of Americans, but will also ensure a more conservative or right wing kind of bent to elections and outcomes and all these other things.
01:11:05.600The left is certainly think about this when they leave the border open for infinite new voters.
01:11:10.200The right needs to start thinking the same way.
01:11:21.060It's not enough to sit around and wait for Trump or Vance or whoever to make the big changes, even though I'm an elite theory guy.
01:11:26.860I do think ultimately they will make the largest the largest contributions.
01:11:31.640But I think what we really need on the right now is a farm team.
01:11:34.880We need to be building talent. We need to be building an aristocracy.
01:11:39.300We need to become worthy to be in those positions of power and make sure we have a deep bench.
01:11:44.780So there's a guy behind Trump and behind J.D. Vance and behind the next guy who is very good and very conservative. We need to rise to raise up leaders across the country, locally, state level and at the national level.
01:11:59.140And that has to be our priority, which is, again, why I think it's so important for conservative influencers and politicians and others to change their language on this kind of stuff.
01:12:11.580You need to be giving them a future that is not just about, you know, securing a managerial job at some kind of, you know, fast food chain.
01:12:21.220You need to give them a vision where they are meaningful contributors to their community and they have a path forward, not just to make money, but to make a difference.
01:12:30.880The left sells young people on their ability to make a difference, not on their ability to make X amount of dollars.
01:19:11.900And so when you win, then they like you.
01:19:14.660uh that it really is that simple most people want status most people want to be cool and that's way
01:19:21.440better than any argument in the marketplace of ideas you will ever ever make and so the most
01:19:26.760important thing if you would like to change culture is to have the power the levers of which
01:19:31.860it is manufactured most conservatives don't see that because they kind of think of popular
01:19:36.960sovereignty it's democracy that's what makes these things happen but it's not it makes some
01:19:41.400people angry, but that's just the truth. And so if you have that, then the changes you're talking
01:19:47.320about are much easier, right? And that's how you know a real political win. A political win is not
01:19:52.060something that changes one issue that you want, though that is good. It's a thing that makes the
01:19:57.620next win easier. And once you win all the things, you can change whatever you want, because then
01:20:02.740you don't have to worry about any of those encumbrances. So that is the good news. I do
01:20:08.100think we have big wins i do think that we are seeing that shift that you're talking about the
01:20:12.340vibe shift is coming a lot of elites who uh were you know kind of on that didn't care they weren't
01:20:17.440committed one way or another they're on board they're going to change things they see the way
01:20:21.720that things are blowing and they want to be on the winning team and that's going to cascade down
01:20:25.820that preference cascade is going to move all the way down the socioeconomic ladder to the average
01:20:30.200person a lot of people get angry about this oh you're just saying people are led and no i don't
01:20:35.760hate people that's just how they work that's fine you don't need to judge people on that you don't
01:20:40.560need to feel bad about it that's just yeah we're not speaking to people's innate dignity or value
01:20:45.260so by making that statement we're not saying and therefore these people have no value and we don't
01:20:49.560love them like no all all equal footing in the sight of god as as image bearers of the living god
01:20:55.220they have an eternal soul uh jesus loves them we as fellow human beings love them as a neighbor
01:21:01.200we also love them as christians and and and love their soul and want to see them born again if
01:21:05.240they're not, or if they are, then they're our Christian brother or Christian sister. So we're
01:21:08.620not speaking of innate dignity or value or anything like that. But what we're recognizing is that God,
01:21:13.540it's God's world, right? God made the world and he made the rules by which his world functions and
01:21:19.040operates. And one of the ways that God made the world, it's just a fact, is that the world is not
01:21:25.360the egalitarian utopia, which I would argue would be a dystopia, that the left imagines. That's not
01:21:31.780the way the world works the world god has has orchestrated into the world which he has made
01:21:35.980inescapable hierarchy inescapable hierarchy um and and that's why um a nation should never have
01:21:44.140women in combat um like like men and women are different um also at an individual level there
01:21:50.460are people like the idea of uh well not equal outcomes you know but equal opportunity we don't
01:21:55.660have equal i've never had the equal opportunity as michael jordan to play in the nba and i never
01:22:00.960had it, never will have it. We don't have equal opportunities because God made a beautiful world
01:22:06.940and a beautiful world is not a homogenous world. It's a world that actually has real
01:22:14.060diversity, different people, different gifts, different skills, different intellect,
01:22:18.340different abilities, all these different things. And so what we're talking about is,
01:22:24.460the concept is this simple. If everyone's a leader, then there's no such thing as a leader.
01:22:29.180all throughout human history there are leaders and and and a leader um what that signifies what
01:22:37.240it assumes is that um there's you know for every leader there's um a a handful at least of followers
01:22:45.460whether that's a one to ten ratio you know or a one to a hundred or but there's there's there's
01:22:50.840leaders which assumes followers and i think it's not that much further to say probably more followers
01:22:56.920than leaders, not just 50% are leaders and they're each leading one person, but it's probably less
01:23:02.780than half of the population are leaders. So it's not some crazy statement for me to say the majority
01:23:09.120of people are followers. That doesn't mean the majority of people are worthless or those followers
01:23:15.200have less innate dignity than the leaders do in the sight of God, or that they should be treated
01:23:19.780differently under the law or none of that. But it's just recognizing God made the world. He made
01:23:25.180according to his rules, God, for whatever reason, has seen fit in his infinite wisdom to orchestrate
01:23:30.700hierarchy and not a homogenous, you know, steamrolled population where everybody's
01:23:35.780exactly the same. So some people are leaders, some people are followers, there's probably
01:23:39.960less leaders and there are followers. And that's how change happens.
01:23:44.540I still have my black pill for you, though. Oh, no. Oh, no. Go for it.
01:23:49.040The black pill is that I think scale is a real factor. I talk about this in my book, The Total State. I think that some of the problems that we are facing are fundamentally ones that emerge once you hit a certain level of scale that requires managerial bureaucracies.
01:24:07.740And the tendencies of those bureaucracies lead us to what we identify as very leftist outcomes. When we kind of pull away from that subsidiary, that locality, those natural hierarchies and them influencing people that they really know and care about directly, we start to take on leftist features.
01:24:26.980And the more we scale up, the more we move towards those things.
01:24:30.440And so while I think our elite are moving in the direction of conservatism and right-wing
01:24:35.180leadership under Trump and Vance and others, and that's good, and I think they can accomplish
01:24:39.660a lot, and we should be optimistic, I think there are systemic limitations to the ways
01:24:44.940in which tech companies and larger corporations and just many social features can actively
01:24:51.180We see this in everything from churches to corporations to government.
01:24:55.200The bigger it gets, often the more leftist gets. And that's not some kind of weird thing. That's not that it's an actual feature of the way that scale works. And so we're going to have to think about big questions of how we can address that if we still want our society to operate kind of the way it does.
01:25:12.260We might have to fundamentally address some of those issues if we want to avoid a constant leftist slide, even if the elites are currently looking to the right for kind of their tastemaking.
01:25:21.740yeah that's insightful um anything else you guys want to follow up with michael west don't think
01:25:30.380so okay uh we have one final super chat i don't quite understand i think it's it's making a
01:25:37.120statement and then asking for your thoughts i assume oran uh but this is jeff halfley um super
01:25:42.400chat from jeff halfley we appreciate it he says in the past white workers and bosses had their
01:25:47.900own political parties representing them. Now they are forced, uh, they have forced them into a
01:25:54.220single party resulting in, um, Elon versus X type of things. What do you think? Does that make sense
01:26:02.740to you, Warren? Do you have a thought? Uh, I mean, I can, I can take my best stab at I think
01:26:06.840maybe what he's getting to there. Uh, yeah, you obviously, we don't have specific parties based
01:26:13.720on race at this point, not explicitly, at least. Obviously, you're going to have a sorting feature
01:26:19.180that moves majorities of one racial population or another into the parties. And that's often
01:26:24.660how we see them characterized. But obviously, there's no official move of that. And I don't
01:26:29.380think there should be. Again, I'm not looking for specific white identity politics. I don't
01:26:34.300think that's a solution to America's problems overall. And I don't think morally it's advisable
01:26:39.920either. That said, we should be comfortable inside the coalition on the right of recognizing
01:26:47.120things that affect everyone in that coalition, including white workers. And if there is
01:26:52.560something that is specifically targeting them, working against them, then that should be brought
01:26:58.420up. And so when someone like Elon says, no, I'm going to bring in infinite migrants from India
01:27:03.220or whatever to do these jobs because they do them cheaper, I'm not going to invest in any of the0.95
01:27:08.000people in the united states the majority of which barely still are white uh you know i'm going to
01:27:12.520bring in people of another faith and another heritage and another race and i'm going to bring
01:27:17.040them in and i'm going to favor them over you we should be able to address that it's okay to notice
01:27:21.340that it's okay to say explicitly that's not good but i don't think that needs to result in some
01:27:26.580kind of you know separate white solidarity uh party or movement i i really hope that people
01:27:33.020can understand that we need to take care of this problem in the right way so we don't get a worse
01:27:38.660problem later on if we are active and loud and and real about this problem today then we won't get
01:27:47.660many of the you know more bombastic identity politics that people are more worried about and
01:27:52.940this is where i think kind of the james lindsays of the world often fail they say any step in the
01:27:58.200direction of recognizing a problem will automatically lead you to you know mid-century
01:28:03.280german goose stepping i think that's exactly the wrong understanding if you take forceful action
01:28:09.520now to solve a injustice now you can prevent the very thing you're worried about because you will
01:28:15.180have good people in positions of leadership if you leave it on the table and you don't address it
01:28:20.400people get more radical and they start listening to anyone who will talk about it including the
01:28:24.680worst people in the room. This is the Andrew Tate effect, right? No one would talk about masculinity,
01:28:29.160so you get Andrew Tate. And if no one will talk about the problems facing white working class
01:28:35.120people, then you will get much worse than Andrew Tate for white people if you don't address them
01:28:41.120legitimately in a moral way today. Right. I think you're absolutely right. Yeah,0.94
01:28:45.320we just did an episode on Andrew Tate, but we've been talking for a few years in regards to both
01:28:50.520nationalism and also biblical patriarchy and you know i constantly tell the detractors um my my
01:28:56.900detractors um you you think i'm extreme um you will be if if you silence every you know me and
01:29:05.180everybody like me um in five years time maybe sooner two three years but definitely five to
01:29:11.660ten years time you will be begging for the centrist moderate reasonable you know joel
01:29:18.300weapons of the world um that if you if you hate men long enough um the way i see it is it's just
01:29:25.840right now like in the theological world the big argument is about natural law it's just it's it's
01:29:32.240a return to nature uh nature is healing as the kids say you know and so um it seems as though
01:29:37.940you know like life finds a way you know a great prophet from jurassic park once said um and the
01:29:44.040industrial age and all this technology and things like that, you know, you know, made it to where
01:29:48.780instead of manual labor outside, you know, for 12 hours a day, you can work eight hours, you know,
01:29:52.760in an office, pushing pencils and counting beings, you know, with HVAC. And, and so in that world,
01:29:58.660like, you know, what women could work and, and maybe even, you know, provide for a family and
01:30:04.400these kinds of things, but all of it was superficial. God designed the world in a, in a
01:30:08.700particular way. And, and, and it seems as though the world, it's not even just an American thing,
01:30:14.900because you see this happening in other countries as well, Argentina, and, you know, so it seems
01:30:18.820like the world is reverting back to a natural order. And I think that means nationalism over
01:30:24.560globalism. I think that means patriarchy over feminism. I think that means hierarchy over
01:30:30.080egalitarianism. I think, you know, all these different things, the whole world seems to be
01:30:34.000rubber band was stretched so far for so long, it's now snapping back. And if I was to boil it
01:30:40.460down to a word, the common denominator across the board, whether it's nationalism, globalism,
01:30:45.260patriarchy, feminism, you know, really to sum it up in a word, the word would be nature. The world
01:30:51.000seems to be reverting back to nature. And so in that nature category, we just need to recognize
01:30:58.960as Christians, Christians don't have a monopoly on natural things. I think Christians do it the
01:31:06.720best. I'm a Christian. But if we study the world, there were plenty of places for centuries, if not
01:31:14.420millennia, before the Christian gospel was ever introduced to them, before they converted to
01:31:19.520Christianity, that had sustainable, with certain levels of atrocities, but sustainable, viable,
01:31:28.960um ways of doing life um for centuries if not millennia so i think like the aztecs um0.86
01:31:37.280would have hated christ and also hated feminism is what i'm saying globalism like they were they
01:31:44.620were they operated in god's natural world according to his natural his his rules um natural law and0.99
01:31:52.020and so what i'm saying is that all the guys who think you're crazy or in your extreme you're crazy0.85
01:31:57.560joel you're extreme um the way i see it is not whether but which the the rubber band is snapping0.61
01:32:03.220back to naturalism and and and that's that's nationalism that's patriarch all the things i've
01:32:09.120already listed so then the question is not whether but which kinds of these things will we get i we're
01:32:14.880going globalism is not viable so that that's that's going away you don't have an option there
01:32:19.900that's going away that's not that's not a viable option it's proven not to be a viable option so
01:32:25.680instead you're going to get nationalism the choice that we have right now before us if we can stop
01:32:31.540you know running like chicken little the sky is falling the christian nationalist no you're going
01:32:35.940to get nationalism you are going to wish and hope and beg 10 years from now that it had been christian0.87
01:32:43.360nationalism because the other choices are not gay homoglobalism that's not a choice it's not viable0.87
01:32:49.820So your alternatives, it's Christian nationalism or Islamic nationalism or just pagan kind of Darwinian naturalism.0.83
01:32:58.440There are forms of nationalism, whether it's the Vikings' form of nationalism, the Aztecs' form of nationalism, or the Muslims' form of nationalism.
01:33:08.460I implore you to consider now, before the waiter just orders for you, while you're still holding the menu, before the dishes come,
01:33:17.640um can i can i interest you in the special of the day it is called christian nationalism can i
01:33:22.820interest you in biblical patriarchy instead of sharia patriarchy can i interest you in like
01:33:28.220and i'm telling if if the james lindseys of the world win this argument and scare0.70
01:33:35.660successfully scare all the listeners to simply just double down on gay globalism0.55
01:33:42.420and egalitarianism for another 10 years um and andrew tate will be mild um with with what we'll
01:33:51.420get so i that that's my final thought for the day any do you agree with that assessment or do you
01:33:56.820think it's you think it's i'm sure you word it differently but no i i think that's exactly right
01:34:02.740you know you you had in the you know the soviet union had you know this insane revolution it was
01:34:07.300supposed to be universal it was supposed to be uh global and guess uh what it worked terribly
01:34:13.320until uh finally a guy named stalin came in and he made it national and he basically converted
01:34:18.860to fascism because that's what actually worked that's the way you could actually make that
01:34:22.260system work you don't want to just sit around and wait until a guy like that shows up like
01:34:26.840someone will eventually make the trains run on time but if you wait until the guy who makes the
01:34:31.940trains run on time, shows up, history tells you bad things happen. Yes, identity is scary. Yes,
01:34:38.060a lot of these questions are difficult, but the strong gods are coming back no matter what. We
01:34:42.460will answer the question, who are we? So the best answer would be brothers in Christ.
01:34:49.000Amen. Let me just read Jeff Halfley. He followed up and it's a really good distinction. So he left
01:34:53.200two super chats. I just want to read them both. Jeff Halfley, there you go. That's how we get
01:34:57.020super chats is if every time somebody says something, we intentionally misunderstand.
01:35:01.940What? I can't read this. You're going to have to send, you know, seven more super chats to clarify.
01:35:07.560So Jeff first asked, he just said, this is the first super chat. In the past, white workers and bosses had their own political parties. They weren't the same, but different. Representing them. Now they are forced into a single party resulting in these kind of Elon versus X, like an H1B type of things. What do you think?
01:35:23.720And then he followed up and said, Democrats used to represent the workers, think unions, and Republicans used to represent bosses.
01:35:30.340Demography has forced them into single parties resulting in friction.
01:35:35.000And then finally followed it up, monocultural societies tend to divide along income and class.
01:35:40.880Multicultural societies tend to divide along race and religion.1.00