The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Nabal, Abigail, and Red Dresses

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00:00:46.820 You have heard it said that we need more modern day Abigails. 1.00

00:00:51.440 Supposedly, we are in short supply of women with the wisdom and courage to stand up to their husbands 1.00

00:00:56.980 on everything ranging from seed oils to the 19th Amendment to revoice for Nazis. 1.00

00:01:03.500 But if you think that we really need, in this hour, a more assertive and scheming and ultimately disobedient populace of women in our society, 1.00

00:01:14.180 then you haven't just lost the plot. 1.00

00:01:16.640 There's a case to be made that you've lost the whole book, namely, the Bible.

00:01:21.700 The biblical authority of the husband in the home is under attack today, perhaps more than

00:01:27.700 it has ever been before. 0.99

00:01:29.440 If we are going to change the tide, we don't need feminism just repackaged with Bible stories. 0.97

00:01:36.720 Instead, we need a wholesale embrace of God's design for the home, especially when dealing 0.88

00:01:42.820 with these issues.

00:01:43.960 Join us today with special guest, Dr. Stephen Wolfe, as we discuss this topic.

00:01:59.860 G.A.

00:02:01.060 Gentlemen.

00:02:01.600 G.A.

00:02:02.060 G.A., good afternoon.

00:02:03.360 Welcome.

00:02:04.160 Dr. Stephen Wolfe.

00:02:05.620 Thank you.

00:02:06.120 This is one of the few moments where I wish I had a PhD, which will never happen, just

00:02:09.880 so that I could say doctor.

00:02:11.140 I wish all of us.

00:02:11.800 Doctor.

00:02:11.920 Doctor.

00:02:12.480 Doctor.

00:02:13.200 Doctor.

00:02:13.520 doctor um yeah you guys can call me doctor that's like yeah no i have been told reliably from you

00:02:20.480 that if you are friends with steven you can call him steven yeah i'd like to think we're friends

00:02:25.260 though i mean okay yeah call me steven i've known enough people who have phds who are not

00:02:32.400 worthy of it so i'll just take steven and we'll leave it at that that's fair enough okay so you

00:02:37.740 guys have seen the outline for our show today uh but i do have a brief announcement before we get

00:02:42.720 started. So the reason why Stephen is with us in the flesh is because the two of us just finished

00:02:49.180 recording a 10-part series on Christian nationalism. And we're roughly following

00:02:54.520 the outline of Stephen's book, The Case for Christian Nationalism, but lots of juicy bonus

00:02:59.720 material that's thrown in. And so that series is going to, at first, it's going to be available

00:03:06.800 exclusively to our Patreon members. But we've kind of just like landed on a new strategy, okay?

00:03:12.400 so here's here's basically the schedule it's pretty simple um you guys are aware many of you

00:03:16.980 who follow our show that right now if you are a patreon member at our lowest tier silver tier

00:03:21.580 five bucks a month uh you have full access uh without any ads uh to the nine part series with

00:03:29.140 pastor andrew isker and myself on the subject of israel and looking at a biblical theological

00:03:35.660 covenantal um even getting into uh ethnicity and these kinds of things how should the church view

00:03:41.200 Israel today? And also even politically speaking, how should we view Israel? And so that's a nine

00:03:47.460 part series that has been making waves and it hasn't even been released to the public. But a

00:03:52.420 lot of people have signed up and joined our Patreon and been privy to that entire show.

00:03:56.660 Well, Lord willing, the plan is starting in January. So next month, next year, year of our

00:04:02.500 Lord 2025, we're going to be doing Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, our live stream that

00:04:08.220 right now is only once a week on wednesdays it's going to be three times a week monday wednesday

00:04:12.160 and friday at 4 p.m central time and we're going to keep the friday special and release that later

00:04:16.800 in the evening maybe like uh 7 p.m central time or 8 p.m central time and and what we're going to do

00:04:22.900 is the whole nine part series with isker and i on israel is going to uh slow drip one episode a week

00:04:30.340 on fridays in the evening starting the first friday of january to the public no longer behind

00:04:36.420 the paywall but uh it's going to be public on x on youtube uh right response website app uh the

00:04:42.760 whole nine yards everything podcast platforms you know spotify apple whatever you use um and

00:04:48.040 at the exact same time we're going to sync it up when we go public with the series that right now

00:04:52.560 is behind the paywall um uh with isker and i on israel that will then be uh the same time that we

00:04:58.760 make um stephen wolf's uh series 10 part series with stephen wolf and i available exclusive to

00:05:05.120 our Patreon members. And then after Q1, January through March, of publicly bringing out the

00:05:13.180 Isker series and privately for Patreon members having the Wolf series, after that, starting

00:05:18.820 April, Lord willing, then Wolf and I, that series will be made available to the public. So ultimately

00:05:24.080 what you're doing is, number one, you're supporting the ministry that preaches the Word of God. And

00:05:29.840 we appreciate your support and generosity. We can't do it without you. But then number two,

00:05:33.600 um you're paying for not necessarily exclusive access but you're paying for um early access

00:05:39.680 and ad free access so anyway so wolf and i our series will be available to our patreon members

00:05:45.340 exclusively starting in january and then lord willing in april uh we'll go ahead and release

00:05:50.040 that to the public so that's uh the announcement for today so let's go ahead and hop into our topic

00:05:55.240 go ahead those watching please give us a like yes subscribe you know the deal but we say it every

00:06:00.720 week just because yep are we live on x nathan did that work out okay so we we're streaming right now

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00:06:41.360 on x uh so that you can not miss out on anything and if you're following us right now if it is

00:06:45.820 streaming on x um make sure that you also follow us on youtube subscribe on youtube okay um so let's

00:06:51.560 go ahead and without any further ado uh let's play what we want to do is we want to show a tweet we

00:06:56.840 We want to show a screenshot of an advertisement from Canon Press.

00:07:00.400 And we also want to play a clip that recently surfaced from Doug Wilson, Pastor Doug Wilson in Moscow, with his children, Rachel Jankovic, Becca Merkel, and Nate Wilson.

00:07:14.240 So let's start with the clip, and then we're going to sync that up.

00:07:17.980 Immediately after that, we'll show the advertisement from Canon, because the two relate to one another.

00:07:23.640 And then we'll show a Twitter poll that was run by Pastor Tom Buck.

00:07:28.080 And for the record, we love and respect all these guys.

00:07:30.900 But then we're going to respectfully show why we don't think it's particularly helpful.

00:07:35.600 Okay.

00:07:35.980 So if you're ready, here's the clip.

00:07:38.420 Seems to be walking with the Lord, seems to be trying to do her duty.

00:07:41.880 And her husband is going off the deep end.

00:07:46.020 What is that?

00:07:47.520 I've said a number of times over the years, and this would be another occasion to say it again, 0.98

00:07:51.900 is that in, in a world where some men can go the Nabal route. Yeah. I have wished for more 0.99

00:07:59.800 Abigails. How, I guess what I'm trying to say is how would you tell a woman to be an Abigail? 0.98

00:08:06.340 I would say, tell them to say to their husband, honey, wherever you're going, I'm not okay. I'm 0.99

00:08:13.540 not going there. And if you don't stop going there, I'm setting up a flare. We're talking

00:08:18.340 to the elders we're not we're not going to go off silently sadly into the night would you say

00:08:24.900 that she should refuse to move like if he's if he is so safe he tries to flee accountability right

00:08:31.540 say things they're already leaving he wants to leave the church he wants to move she doesn't

00:08:35.380 have cause grounds for divorce in the sense that he's not been unfaithful to her but he wants to

00:08:41.620 move them to a place where she knows she'd have no like is that what you mean being abigail say

00:08:47.140 I think the Abigail thing, I always think it's the coolest thing that she saved both

00:08:54.360 men in that.

00:08:55.580 She saved Nabal from getting killed by David, but she saved David from killing Nabal.

00:09:00.440 And so she went behind Nabal's back, who was her current husband, but she also stopped

00:09:06.220 her future husband from doing something that was going to be wicked.

00:09:10.260 And the way she confronted him, like, so she went behind Nabal's back, but she also went

00:09:15.700 very respectfully to david but said don't do this thing that you're planning to do yeah you know so

00:09:20.820 we need more basically in dire situations with nabals we need abigail's now at the same time

00:09:28.340 i'm saying that in a generation where many many wives have never thought of obeying their husbands 1.00

00:09:34.660 ever right and she shouldn't it seems like they all think to do it when they shouldn't

00:09:40.980 in the time in the time when they ought to say no absolutely not well it's embarrassing it's

00:09:47.700 actually it's right but it's embarrassing if he says let's eat more homemade meals she might feel

00:09:52.020 free to say absolutely not but not when it comes to but so you're saying to send up a flare get

00:09:57.140 get elders involved to make sure that it's on the radar don't disappear quietly right so that one of

00:10:01.780 the things that abigail did there she went and talked to david and she went and talked to david

00:10:05.540 in a way that her husband would absolutely have hated and forbidden yeah and that like get help

00:10:13.060 like basically get help now even if your husband doesn't want you to get help you have to get help

00:10:17.660 and you would say that and then she went and told her husband what she'd done and you should also

00:10:21.660 say though for friends of that woman that they need to be encouraging her straightforwardly to

00:10:27.860 do that yeah but it's also incredibly brave both directions because she'd be really brave to go do

00:10:32.960 what she knew would infuriate nabal but she's also going to david who's really mad right now

00:10:38.500 and he's on the one i think i think and she like throws herself in front to say please don't do

00:10:43.780 this you know like but also the guys that are doing this kind of thing are being imbalanced

00:10:48.840 it's a scary man who's going this way it takes courage to stand up to a husband at least at his

00:10:55.500 keyboard in the dark no for a woman with a fake name for a woman a husband losing his grip on

00:11:01.560 reality is a terrifying yeah it's just scary so i have a lot of we can end on that optimistic no

00:11:07.980 don't like it any thoughts i've got thoughts but i'll open up to you guys first 0.81

00:11:17.500 i mean well i'll say that like women are tend to be consensus driven

00:11:22.860 right uh men tend to be more truth contesting oh sure but like the more of contesting and more

00:11:31.640 of questioning more agonistic and true and so it when you have yeah contrarian uh so this sets up

00:11:39.020 this sets up a a a battle between a consensus driven person and a more agonistic questioning

00:11:48.100 person and in a time in which you have a society that is going absolutely nuts when there's

00:11:54.260 propaganda and a lot of things that are simply plainly false that we are required then to to

00:12:03.080 believe like by society what this is setting up is that the consensus driven person can use the

00:12:09.880 authority of the church as a third party to then silence the husband with regard to things that

00:12:16.460 they should question um yeah so i think that's the that's the at a time like this in which there

00:12:23.000 are these social dynamics where you are required to believe certain things that are plainly false

00:12:28.020 or at least very questionable you're now you're wielding the consensus driven party to then use

00:12:33.640 a third party namely the church to silence them essentially bring them back into the consensus

00:12:39.220 yep so it's i think it's apart from whether or not it's good as a principle in certain situations

00:12:45.340 In our time now, it sounds to me as if it's the wrong thing to emphasize.

00:12:50.120 Yeah.

00:12:50.740 There can be a way to undercut the husband's authority.

00:12:52.940 You could think of the front door, which is to say, no, I won't do that.

00:12:56.160 But someone pointed out in the comments, sin according, because the one exception to the husband's authority would be if he commands her to commit an act of sin.

00:13:04.400 Or forbids her from committing an act of righteousness.

00:13:07.140 Exactly.

00:13:07.840 But then who defines what is sin, what is righteousness that she's forbidden from?

00:13:11.900 So she could straight up defy him and say, no, I'm not doing that.

00:13:15.340 Or she could say, well, I actually think this is sin, and the end outcome is the same.

00:13:20.020 His command, his word is not obeyed.

00:13:22.280 She's not obedient to her husband, as the Bible says, but she's conveniently cloaked

00:13:26.220 it in, well, I think this is sin.

00:13:28.360 I've determined privately, not from any type of church document, not from elders, not from

00:13:33.640 spiritual discernment, but privately here, I've decided that to do this or to not do

00:13:37.520 this would be sin.

00:13:38.480 My interpretation rules, and I'm going to take that and go to the elders, again, to

00:13:42.320 the same outcome being, I disobeyed my husband.

00:13:45.180 Yep.

00:13:45.340 i'll say this um first in defense of the wilson's who i love um doug is right uh in principle

00:13:52.720 the the problem that i have with this particular clip and you know to uh as a as a counter to

00:14:02.000 anybody who would say we're taking it out of context it's actually the larger context that

00:14:05.720 gives me more concern um and i'm going to provide even further context beyond just the video as a

00:14:10.840 whole by showing uh the way it was synced up with a particular advertisement from canon

00:14:14.880 in their email blast um because that provides context as well and the context doesn't help

00:14:20.440 it hurts in my opinion uh but first to levy a defense um other wilson's particularly doug

00:14:26.980 um i i think the principle is thoroughly biblical and right so if we're saying um

00:14:34.780 all forms of human authority can err. All forms of human authority can err to the point that

00:14:44.620 would be categorically abusive, and therefore tyrannical. And all forms of human authority

00:14:50.440 include the male headship and authority of a husband in the home. So there are times where

00:14:57.680 I absolutely, as a pastor, would counsel, if I had knowledge of something, and there have been

00:15:02.820 a few cases over the course of my ministry where this has happened, where I would say, yeah, the

00:15:07.740 elders have to get involved, and not only the elders. Not only do you need to go outside of

00:15:11.540 the sphere of the household in your husband, and is it right and good that you've approached the

00:15:16.460 elders, but we also need to involve another sphere named the civil magistrate. You need to make a

00:15:20.300 phone call to the police, right? So if a husband is beating the children, God forbid, then yeah,

00:15:27.340 that wife needs to come to the elders of the church and needs to call the sheriff, you know, 0.81

00:15:32.240 or whatever. The problem that I have is not the principle. And I did notice, again, in defense 0.97

00:15:38.480 of the Wilsons, there were some people on X who were the counter, the attack and criticism that

00:15:46.600 they were levying was from a place of disagreeing with the principle. I would advise against that

00:15:52.340 in this case. Sometimes people present principles that aren't good principles, and so then have at

00:15:57.900 it. But I don't think this is one of those instances. I think the principle is a universally

00:16:02.340 true biblical principle. Certain authorities can get into the realm of tyranny and categorical

00:16:08.920 abuse. And in those cases, under those authorities have the right, and even at times, it's even

00:16:14.720 obligatory that they appeal to other authorities for the safety of others and so that righteousness

00:16:20.920 might prevail. That's fine. That is totally fine. Here's the problem. It's not the principle.

00:16:25.140 The problem is the case study, and particularly not the specificity of the case study, but the lack thereof.

00:16:34.300 The fact that the only example that's being offered is a very vague and ambiguous example of, well, my husband is just too far right wing.

00:16:45.460 And what I want to say is, what's too far right wing?

00:16:48.020 and and from biblical definitions not post-war consensus you know popular opinion sources but

00:16:55.980 from a biblical source i need you to put a little bit more meat on those bones and say that if this

00:17:02.940 is an abigail moment and and i also disagree with the biblical illustration so i agree with the

00:17:07.220 principle i disagree with the uh the scripture that they're using to back it up and i certainly

00:17:12.140 disagree with the lack of a clear example of when this is is necessary. And so one, give me an

00:17:20.480 example. Give me an example. And too far right wing is is not a good example. That's because

00:17:26.440 what's too far right wing? It's too vague. It's too ambiguous. It's not helpful. Because too far

00:17:30.860 right wing could literally just be my husband refused to watch the new Bonhoeffer movie because

00:17:36.640 He said that Bonhoeffer was a heretic.

00:17:38.680 And so I'm calling the elders, you know, like, like, so what are we talking about?

00:17:43.160 What, what is too far right wing?

00:17:45.200 And then, and then lastly, the last thing I'll say is I said, you know, I don't appreciate

00:17:50.180 the scripture that's being used.

00:17:53.820 Okay.

00:17:54.220 So this is a, this is why this is a descriptive text.

00:17:57.180 It's fine to use the Bible that way. 0.99

00:17:58.440 I'm not a biblicist. 1.00

00:17:59.360 We do that all the time.

00:18:00.280 We read descriptive passages in the old Testament and we can glean certain principles and, and

00:18:06.060 then and then translate those into practical applications that are good and godly and pleasing

00:18:09.940 to the lord that's that's that's how we read the bible that's one of the ways that we read the

00:18:13.160 bible so i'm not saying that you know when we're giving marriage advice that you know the only two

00:18:17.600 texts we can appeal to is ephesians 5 and first peter 3 it's fine to use the bible the way they're

00:18:21.620 doing it um but if we want to be fair with this particular story um abigail is not uh tattling

00:18:28.980 on her husband the reason david is coming with all his men to kill her husband is because he's

00:18:34.680 already been informed. So she's not tattling and informing, because in this illustration,

00:18:39.720 the way they're using it, David would be representative of the senior pastor and his

00:18:44.640 mighty men or whatever, whoever's with him are the elders. So David represents the pastors of

00:18:48.820 the church, Nabal represents your far right-wing husband, and Abigail is this wise and courageous

00:18:53.700 Christian woman. Well, if we're going to use the passage for what it actually says and apply it

00:18:58.860 the way that the passage actually unfolds, then you would have to say, in this case, it's not

00:19:02.940 a woman going to the elders, asking for protection from her husband, informing them with something

00:19:08.380 that they previously don't know. It's actually, the elders of the church already do know somehow

00:19:13.780 through the grapevine, and the elders, she's not trying to stop her husband and his foolishness by 0.55

00:19:19.600 getting the protection of the elders. She's actually starting, trying to stop the foolishness 0.83

00:19:23.860 of the elders. In other words, David's coming to kill, so if we want to liken it to the church 0.97

00:19:28.360 world uh the elders caught wind that the the husband of a particular christian woman is too

00:19:34.300 far right wing and they're coming to excommunicate him and the wise abigail is saying pastors oh

00:19:39.400 please do not sin by overreacting and exercising the keys of the kids you want to be accurate in

00:19:44.140 using the passage that would be the direct application so i actually think the passage

00:19:48.000 goes directly against what you're advocating for which makes it just all the more humorous

00:19:52.560 and ironic on its face.

00:19:55.060 That's my two cents.

00:19:56.540 Yeah, it seems like a case where

00:19:58.340 the principle that's being drawn out

00:20:03.280 is a good principle, like you say.

00:20:05.940 Yes.

00:20:07.320 But because the principle is good,

00:20:10.360 we don't then interrogate the passage

00:20:12.220 and say, wait a minute,

00:20:13.440 is that actually what's going on in that passage?

00:20:16.620 Is that the lesson that that passage is telling us?

00:20:19.800 And that's probably not the lesson

00:20:21.800 yeah yeah now certainly there was a sense where abigail did risk infuriating her husband yes going

00:20:28.780 to david right and so in in that sense they're right like there there may have been ramifications

00:20:34.200 at home after the fact for her when he found out and so she was in a sense going against him but

00:20:39.620 he was being overtly foolish to the point where his life and who knows how many others were on

00:20:46.380 the line and it would have left abigail best case scenario if they hadn't accidentally gone too far 0.96

00:20:53.580 and wiped out the entire family like she would have been left without a husband a provider 0.99

00:20:58.000 she was really interceding for more than every man a sin issue yeah more than just a foolish sin 0.98

00:21:05.420 issue on abigail's on on nabel's part she was interceding for her livelihood her life the life

00:21:11.820 of all the men in the home who were now going to be claimed because of nabal's foolishness right

00:21:16.980 she wasn't a narc she wasn't tattling on her husband's failure she was intervening she was

00:21:22.040 seeking to preserve to stop yeah the the potential soon to be failure of she was actually she wasn't

00:21:28.540 she wasn't getting her husband in trouble she was saving him from trouble by stopping what would 0.95

00:21:35.020 have been not not just nabal's foolishness but stopping the foolishness of the elders the elders 0.98

00:21:39.320 were coming to the house

00:21:41.100 to exercise

00:21:43.160 abuse. So this actually wasn't

00:21:45.520 an abusive husband. Nabal was foolish 1.00

00:21:47.560 to be sure. But this is actually 0.99

00:21:49.500 abusive elders are about

00:21:51.440 to do something tyrannical 1.00

00:21:53.240 and the wise wife is 1.00

00:21:54.860 intervening and saying, yeah,

00:21:57.140 my husband might be off here

00:21:58.840 but what you're about to do is even more wicked.

00:22:02.440 Please don't

00:22:03.460 excommunicate my husband for 1.00

00:22:05.100 listening to the Martyr Maid

00:22:07.300 podcast. I mean,

00:22:09.100 that's, if we're going to use the text, that seems to be far more obvious from the text than the way

00:22:14.540 that the Wilsons are using it. Any thoughts on that? Nope. I was going to say, sorry, that requires

00:22:21.120 a degree of courage to go through what Stephen said earlier, where women are more consensus 0.95

00:22:26.380 driven. That requires a courage that flies in the face of what they're being pressured to do, 0.98

00:22:30.900 right? That seems to me a more biblical and godly courage that we ought to esteem

00:22:35.140 and our women reject the impulse to react purely by consensus do what is right defend your family

00:22:43.200 insist on the truth and even defend your leaders from from even greater foolishness than has been

00:22:48.640 displayed already right she's not disagreeing with her husband and teaming up with the elders

00:22:52.960 she's disagreeing with everybody right including the elders especially you might argue the elders

00:22:57.740 if david and his men represent the elders uh so now let's go ahead nathan and show uh on the screen

00:23:02.360 the screenshot of the canon ad uh because i think this illustrates my point of uh the principle is

00:23:08.280 true but the text used i think actually argues the opposite of the principle um and and the lack of

00:23:15.500 an example specificity of an example of when the husband really is too far or off the deep end as

00:23:21.020 as uh miss jenkovich said um if if there was any confusion about about what that looks like

00:23:27.840 this uh ad from canon made it uh even less clear and more confusing says uh we need more abigail's 0.55

00:23:34.960 abigail went behind her husband's back to stop her future husband from doing something wicked

00:23:39.580 thus saving both men in an afternoon such wisdom and courage are in short supply and here we go

00:23:47.740 i think this confuses things from seed oils to essential oils repealing the 19th to revoicing

00:23:56.160 the nazis get the wisdom to see the path and the courage to walk in it the reason why i think

00:24:02.960 that's unhelpful is um because here we have examples of when a wife should go around her

00:24:11.220 husband usurp his authority and appeal to another authority like like ecclesiastical authority of

00:24:16.740 the elders or maybe it's calling the police civil authority so um and the only example cited and 0.97

00:24:22.620 even with the examples one they're silly two um revoiced for nazis i've said it several times but

00:24:28.540 under christian nationalism it's with a heavy heart i must declare uh that anybody uses revoiced 0.83

00:24:33.160 for nazis unironically will be immediately deported and that does include the wilson's

00:24:37.320 as much as we love them um it's the madness has to stop so um doug uh is he he's a great writer

00:24:44.140 and he he can't resist a turn of phrase and i have gotten many a laugh out of his creative writing

00:24:49.420 he's a great writer uh but this one uh as much as i know he loves it he's got to let it go so

00:24:53.940 um these are silly examples but not only are they silly examples um but it's also not even

00:25:00.100 clear from the canon ad uh whether they're positive or negative examples so so the seed

00:25:04.920 oils from essential oils to seed oils so uh so in that my question would be um are these actual

00:25:12.120 examples and if so uh which one does the wife call the the church elders for being pro seed oil

00:25:19.140 or against seed oil, being pro-essential oil.

00:25:22.880 Is essential oil the positive one

00:25:24.260 and seed oils are the negative one?

00:25:25.860 Are they both negative?

00:25:26.900 Are they both positive?

00:25:28.340 Like that, it's just, it's unhelpful. 0.86

00:25:30.520 And I know that Canon is being silly

00:25:32.060 and it's okay to be humorous,

00:25:33.680 but this is a important issue.

00:25:36.420 And they teamed up the ad.

00:25:37.880 I understand it's Canon, it's not a church,

00:25:40.140 it's a company, it's a printing press publisher,

00:25:43.320 and this is an ad for selling product.

00:25:45.860 And that's fine.

00:25:46.860 But because they teamed it up with a ministry,

00:25:49.140 and a pastor giving instruction, that's where I would say, as much as you guys want to sell

00:25:54.680 product, I get that. And as much as I appreciate humor, as much as the next guy, but you've teamed

00:26:00.680 it up with a pastoral exhortation. And the pastoral exhortation was already lacking clarity.

00:26:09.560 And your attempt at a humorous advertisement teamed up with that pastoral exhortation 0.99

00:26:15.300 uh just takes away even more clarity and now all all the women who you know who their own husbands

00:26:22.700 turned them on to moscow back in 2020 are now going to be at best confused about when they 0.76

00:26:29.800 should go around their husbands um and at worst um they're going to be invigorated you know that

00:26:37.200 that wife who uh whose husband has been talking to her about head covering um but her pastor

00:26:42.780 isn't a head covering guy and and she's not a head covering gal uh now she might be thinking

00:26:48.320 uh is is this is this an example is this when i call uh the elders and and tell them i'm concerned

00:26:53.700 about my husband because he's telling me that i should wear my interpretation is right so well

00:26:59.420 yeah i mean these guys they they tend they i'd say dougs has done this for a long time which is

00:27:06.420 thriving on ambiguity so you you use vagueness and ambiguity to get people to respond and say

00:27:14.500 well what are the examples is it this or that is it how far how far right wing do you have to go

00:27:18.900 right and then that prolongs the discussion in the attention span and everyone focused that's

00:27:23.900 everyone's talking about this now um and then then there's a clarification but mixing the

00:27:29.100 clarification is a further ambiguity that then furthers the discussion on and on and on

00:27:33.000 which is a good marketing tactic i mean it's fine uh but uh but on something like this which

00:27:40.240 actually tells women which suggests to women that actually you should turn your husbands in for

00:27:45.660 suggesting maybe seed oils or head coverings or something this is actually serious this is

00:27:50.340 actually people's lives like this is their marriage relationship that you are via podcast

00:27:56.820 meddling in directly and not even within your own church but also within all the churches all

00:28:02.840 the people who follow you so it really becomes at the level irresponsible it's one thing if it's

00:28:09.060 about i don't know what the topic would be i don't know like theonomy or something like that you want

00:28:13.580 to do that and it drives a discussion but when you're actually dealing with real people in their

00:28:18.280 lives in the most intimate relationship which is marriage you don't use marketing ambiguity

00:28:25.400 because it's it's irresponsible and it can actually harm people right um yeah and so yeah i just fear

00:28:32.040 that a women i don't know if how many women watch those shows but then they'll find out yeah then

00:28:38.460 they'll find out that their their man that their husband is following guys who don't like seed oils 0.99

00:28:43.740 or they want a more natural diet or they want food that's that's from scratch and they don't

00:28:49.000 want the package stuff that contains the list of new ingredients you can't even pronounce and they

00:28:54.680 start thinking maybe it'd be better for us to start eating whole foods or something like that

00:28:59.380 you know right and all of a sudden oh he's a right winger like he's he's an anti-seed oil guy

00:29:04.480 and then it creates tension between the family because the the wife is now empowered in order

00:29:10.360 to do that and then you get the third party involved namely the pastor who then you know

00:29:14.120 so i i just think it's it's really uh it's irresponsible um to do to use ambiguity in this

00:29:22.920 way but in other cases fine you know they've done they've done that with me i guess but in this case

00:29:28.580 i don't agree but not ambiguity is fine and humor is certainly fine in terms of phrases are are fine

00:29:34.500 but they're not they're not particularly helpful in the realm of pastoral advice especially towards

00:29:42.720 something as intimate and fundamental as marriage yeah yeah especially again especially since it's

00:29:48.420 broadcast this is national international if it's your church then after the church someone can come

00:29:54.560 up and say, well, what do you mean is too far right? And then you can have that discussion.

00:29:59.000 But to do it in something where eventually you get the answer after the third or fourth blog post,

00:30:04.060 when someone stopped listening after the first, then it's just, it's not good for,

00:30:10.040 yeah, it's not good. It's not at all unthinkable that there will be real marriages. Like we know

00:30:14.720 these guys and we talk to them, their pastor is not down with any of this. So they're reading and

00:30:18.560 they're getting into stuff and coming to different conclusions. There are real marriages where the

00:30:22.360 wife is going to catch wind of this. They're going to hear him mention something and they're going to 0.87

00:30:25.740 go to the pastor and the pastor is going to come and take him to the woodshed and rhetoric and talk

00:30:30.120 like this is exactly what's going to create that situation. And in extreme ones, the pastor could

00:30:34.820 say, get the kids. You're not safe. He's talking about this. He's one of those scary guys we've

00:30:38.980 heard about on the internet. Like that's actual real people, marriages with children that really

00:30:43.700 could have a wedge driven between them. You need to go stay at the in-laws and that's terrible to

00:30:48.480 do. If it's for something good and the man is an actual evil, wicked person, of course, but over

00:30:53.500 something as silly as all of these examples mentioned, that's awful. Yeah, the question

00:30:58.540 then is, oh, where'd you get that idea about seed oils? Oh, I got it from this guy named

00:31:02.260 Raw Egg Nationalist on Twitter. And the pastor's like, oh, I've never heard of that thing. I've

00:31:06.540 never even heard of Twitter. And then he goes on there and doesn't understand anything of what's

00:31:09.780 going on. And he finds out from a blog, you know, some Google search that Ren is actually a Nazi.

00:31:16.740 And wait, you're actually following Nazis on Twitter?

00:31:19.220 And it just goes down and down and down.

00:31:21.300 And yeah, it's just not good.

00:31:23.920 Most of your pastors don't understand the dynamics of the internet, particularly X or Twitter.

00:31:29.740 And so the moment that question arises, I wonder if this guy's down in nefarious stuff,

00:31:34.480 they're not going to understand the world they're jumping into.

00:31:37.120 And in the end, it causes the problems that...

00:31:39.420 So again, ambiguity is bad in this case.

00:31:42.500 Red dresses.

00:31:44.480 Nathan, let's go ahead.

00:31:45.960 Because I think they're related.

00:31:46.740 You already had a commercial break?

00:31:47.980 Oh, yeah.

00:31:48.420 You know what?

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00:34:05.080 Okay, here we go.

00:34:06.120 So this is a tweet from Pastor Tom Buck.

00:34:08.400 Just again, to reiterate, we love the Wilsons.

00:34:10.820 We love Moscow.

00:34:11.600 Doug has done a lot of good.

00:34:12.440 I've learned a lot from him.

00:34:13.760 I just thought this particular,

00:34:15.780 I agreed with him in principle,

00:34:17.300 thought it wasn't the best biblical passage

00:34:19.500 to illustrate the principle.

00:34:21.220 And then my big concern was

00:34:22.620 that there was no tangible example

00:34:24.200 or case study given for the principle.

00:34:25.800 and the ambiguous examples that were provided,

00:34:30.740 I think not only were they unhelpful,

00:34:33.800 but actually would be potentially dangerous.

00:34:36.740 You know, like, you know,

00:34:37.800 my husband wants to eat less processed food.

00:34:41.460 Maybe I should talk to the elders. 0.72

00:34:43.760 He's a tyrant, you know.

00:34:45.040 So anyways, but so we're shifting gears,

00:34:48.080 but not really, it's the same theme.

00:34:49.300 So the theme of the show today,

00:34:51.040 just like from the cold open,

00:34:53.240 is we're talking about patriarchy

00:34:55.100 and trying to put some meat on the bones

00:34:57.140 and give some tangible, you know, practical advice here.

00:35:00.260 And we're doing it, you know,

00:35:01.500 starting the conversation in the negative,

00:35:03.480 saying here are some examples that we think are unhelpful.

00:35:06.680 And then we want to try to give some positive examples

00:35:09.520 at the end of the show.

00:35:11.040 But we love the Wilsons and we love Pastor Tom Buck.

00:35:14.960 And because we love them, we thought, you know what?

00:35:17.480 We shouldn't just blame one guy.

00:35:18.660 We should let Wilson and Buck share blame together.

00:35:22.800 You know, that's a very charitable thing of us to do.

00:35:24.520 So this is a tweet from Pastor Tom Buck.

00:35:28.220 So he did a poll.

00:35:29.840 It says, if a husband tells his wife that he wants her to wear a red dress every day,

00:35:35.440 is she to submit to his authority and obey?

00:35:39.240 40.5% said yes.

00:35:41.180 I was one of those.

00:35:41.980 Very proud.

00:35:43.040 And then 59.5% said no.

00:35:47.180 A total of over 7,000 votes in terms of views on this tweet, 388.600,000.

00:35:55.240 So almost 400,000 views, almost half a million.

00:35:58.460 So this made the rounds.

00:36:00.000 And I would just say that, to quote Tim Keller here, it's not what you say.

00:36:06.000 It's what the language does.

00:36:07.860 And what the language does in this particular case is one of the things that it does,

00:36:13.260 and I won't impute motives.

00:36:14.240 I don't know what Tom was thinking.

00:36:15.360 I have an idea, but I could be wrong.

00:36:17.180 But I think what it does, regardless of his intentions, is it just provides one more little chipping away at biblical patriarchy and male headship in the home by basically trying to attack the general principle of the husband actually has authority over the wife.

00:36:41.160 I mean, the Bible literally says, wives, submit to your husbands in everything. 0.94

00:36:46.300 Now you're just being a biblicist, Joel. 1.00

00:36:47.800 Yeah, that's good. 0.98

00:36:48.740 And everything.

00:36:49.820 And obviously we've already established

00:36:51.440 at the outset of the show,

00:36:54.400 just like whether it be a civil ruler

00:36:55.960 or whether it be ecclesiastical, your pastor,

00:36:57.780 whether it be in the household with your husband,

00:37:00.640 any human authority, we're not only free,

00:37:03.860 but obligated, morally obligated to resist that authority

00:37:07.440 if the authority is commanding that which God forbids

00:37:11.220 or forbidding that which God commands, okay?

00:37:14.080 So it is a real principle, and it does have real application.

00:37:18.520 The problem, though, is does God forbid wearing red dresses?

00:37:21.700 Does God forbid even wearing red dresses every day?

00:37:24.900 Does God forbid seed oils or lack thereof?

00:37:27.980 Like, it's the examples that are the problem.

00:37:31.500 If you're simply making the case that there are times in various spheres of life where you have to resist human authority because tyranny is a real category, and fine, okay, I get it.

00:37:42.640 Like we did a lot of talks like that during COVID.

00:37:45.020 It needed to be said.

00:37:46.840 There was a time to resist human authorities

00:37:49.120 because they're really acting like tyrants

00:37:50.840 and they're forbidding.

00:37:52.480 They're not just doing something that's uncomfortable

00:37:54.740 or inconvenient or goes against your preference,

00:37:58.200 but they're actually forbidding something that God commands

00:38:01.420 or commanding something God forbids.

00:38:03.540 And the former forbidding that which God commands,

00:38:06.500 for instance, would be, you know, during COVID,

00:38:08.320 you can't go to church.

00:38:09.360 Well, God tells me to go to church.

00:38:10.820 and and so that was a problem and so uh the doctrine of the lesser magistrate and civil

00:38:15.760 disobedience and resistance was was something that really needed to be talked about but now

00:38:20.360 it's being talked about in the category of the home and it would be one thing if we had

00:38:24.240 an epidemic of toxic patriarchy right and i'm not saying there are no example i'm not saying there's

00:38:29.940 there's no husband on planet earth who hasn't gone too far i'm not saying that but i think

00:38:35.060 what's so important is uh the headline must be the headline the footnote must be the footnote

00:38:40.740 and often what we do in evangelicalism is we make the footnote the headline and the headline the

00:38:45.540 footnote we major on the minor and we minor on the major and and what what sometimes uh is

00:38:51.420 accomplished by trying to provide exceptions to the rule so the rule is wives submit to your

00:38:57.780 husbands and everything um there may be exceptions but by by pressing the exception a lot of times

00:39:04.460 what it ends up doing is it carves out excuses to uh to actually obey the norm and in this

00:39:11.180 particular example with tom buck the exception he provides i actually think from a biblical

00:39:15.800 standpoint is not a good exception if if the example was um is uh do you have to obey your

00:39:21.440 husband if he asks you every day not to pray or every day um to beat the children or every like

00:39:29.460 but in this case or if he was dressed to wear something that is objectively immodest yeah

00:39:33.480 exactly to um to wear um spandex in public you know every single day exactly but this is um

00:39:39.980 this is literally it's it's just not it's there's there's no biblical law against red dresses

00:39:45.120 so it's strictly preference and and and what this does this little you know experiment uh poll on

00:39:53.800 on x is it just gets people thinking and according to the results 59.5 percent of people if over 7,000

00:40:00.880 people thinking there are times outside of biblical clear commands simply in the realm

00:40:06.400 of preference where a woman can say to her husband despite his authority take a hike

00:40:11.140 yeah i'm not a fan okay there's two separate issues here there's authority and there's prudence

00:40:17.120 so the question does the husband have the authority to command such a thing that's not

00:40:22.560 necessarily saying is it prudent for a man to require that of his wife because the wives that's

00:40:28.000 a different question even you know women of both genders well why would he ever do that maybe it's

00:40:33.020 not suitable for the climate blah blah blah we're not asking is it prudent should it be done yeah we

00:40:38.280 live in the north pole but mrs claus every single day that's true you know we're in la there's gangs

00:40:44.580 red we're not talking about the prudence of it we're talking about does a husband have that

00:40:48.220 authority to command that to which the bible like if it doesn't actually mean that if it doesn't

00:40:53.480 literally practically on a tuesday and a wednesday and a sunday in the home to his wife mean he can

00:40:59.060 say do this and it's not sin and she does it what does it actually mean what is it actually good for

00:41:03.980 as you like to say nothing if you truly won't validate yes that authority is actually legitimate

00:41:09.480 it has to be obeyed it's god ordained practically it looks like this if you won't do that then take

00:41:15.260 the verse that says that grab a sharpie and scribble that out in your bible because you have

00:41:18.920 no intention of actually obeying it when push comes to shove when the rubber meets the road

00:41:23.140 You're right. The phrasing of the question is key. And the way you phrased it is helpful,

00:41:27.680 but technically that wasn't even the way that Tom, Pastor Buck phrased it. He didn't say,

00:41:32.540 does the husband have the authority? The way he phrased it is, should the wife obey or should 0.77

00:41:36.860 the wife submit to his authority? So if it was, is it wise for a husband to give this command, 0.83

00:41:43.140 to command his wife to wear red dress every day? Then I would probably say no. Or is it prudent?

00:41:48.040 So should the husband exercise his command?

00:41:52.160 That's a different question.

00:41:53.580 But that's not the question that was asked. 0.56

00:41:55.040 The question that was asked is, should a wife obey the command? 0.85

00:41:59.540 So in this case, we're saying the command, prudent or not, has already been issued. 0.89

00:42:05.320 And now we're debating, should a wife submit? 0.99

00:42:10.500 That's unhelpful. 0.96

00:42:12.640 Do you have any thoughts, Michael or Stephen?

00:42:14.520 Yeah, I just say that whenever you talk about authority, especially when you're talking about disobeying some sort of order of that authority, is the subordinate person should, there should be a, you should reemphasize the idea of a type of deference.

00:42:32.400 So someone's, I think this is true for civil authority, it's true for authority in the family.

00:42:38.400 The first impulse should be obedience.

00:42:40.800 The first impulse should be deference to them as the head of that, the state or the head of the family.

00:42:50.420 And so that should always be emphasized when you're talking about some kind of disobedience, which I didn't see any of them do.

00:42:59.500 No, excuse me.

00:43:00.580 The other thing is that, what was I going to say?

00:43:05.220 We've talked too long.

00:43:06.560 I keep forgetting everything.

00:43:07.520 I know.

00:43:08.020 Anyway, come back to me.

00:43:09.040 Okay.

00:43:09.380 I'll think of it in a moment.

00:43:10.360 I was going to say, it's a similar principle.

00:43:12.900 I saw someone mention the civil magistrate,

00:43:16.080 and something I learned from Stephen's book is the command to honor

00:43:20.960 and submit to the civil magistrate is quite high biblically.

00:43:24.960 It's for the sake of your conscience.

00:43:27.180 And so when we pray for the civil magistrate,

00:43:29.040 we pray every Sunday for the civil magistrate.

00:43:31.580 Often we pray something like, Lord, help us to obey faithfully

00:43:34.480 in every area that we can so that if it comes that we have to disobey,

00:43:39.160 it will be obvious that it's because of the principle that we obey god rather than men

00:43:43.180 than just that we're disgruntled conservatives who are you know angry at the government right

00:43:47.500 yeah yeah so what i was going to say is whenever like if you're if you're reading like complex

00:43:52.760 like ethics or anything that that involves like you go to the extreme cases to narrow down the

00:43:59.880 principle like so that it makes sense that you'd go to a case where it's kind of unclear on the

00:44:04.600 surface, prima facie, you're unsure. And then that forces a guy then to rethink his principles. It's

00:44:10.580 like, you know, the Kantian ethics, you never lie. Well, therefore you don't, you know, the Jews in 1.00

00:44:14.340 the basement or whatever, you can't lie to the Nazi. Like that's a classic example of trying to 0.91

00:44:18.960 go to an extreme case that would seem to violate intuition about the principle. But if you do it

00:44:24.440 on Twitter, that's not exactly the environment in which you are trying to narrow down your

00:44:29.560 principle. It's not the Socratic method there. Yeah, right. And it's also a very high context

00:44:33.760 environment and so this didn't come out of nowhere like you have to understand each tweet usually in

00:44:38.140 context of all these other tweets and so i think i think joel you said it i think what the effect

00:44:42.780 of this does like it is true that what it does not only what it says like that's true because

00:44:47.080 of twitter's this high context environment what it does is it actually chips away at someone's

00:44:52.260 principle now they start have to question the idea of authority um and it actually undermines

00:44:58.060 the authority in effect by doing this sort of uh you know extreme case type type work um and so

00:45:05.500 in that way it's it's just not good uh unless you know you should provide like if you know you should

00:45:11.300 give more than that it's it's not not good so it's so like the the sort of person who would 0.91

00:45:15.820 who would do this would be like a feminist who if you know if that feminist feminist is smart would 1.00

00:45:22.060 say i'm going to give this extreme case knowing that it's twitter in order to undermine male 1.00

00:45:28.940 headship in the family like that would make sense but someone doing it like tom buck who affirms you

00:45:34.380 know whatever probably complementarianism uh it's either he doesn't know what he's doing um or he

00:45:40.260 does know what he's doing and he's actually undermining the uh the principle in either case

00:45:44.760 i fear the authority i'll give charity and assume the former but i fear the latter michael were you

00:45:50.980 going to say something or west i've got something else but go ahead i was going to say in the

00:45:54.400 military the if you take a squad so you have a squad leader that's over several fire teams

00:45:59.080 the line between a functional and dysfunctional squad wouldn't necessarily be the quality of the

00:46:03.880 squad leader but it would be the teams the how well they obey him if you had fire teams that

00:46:08.840 would not obey the squad leader or they would quibble and argue and refuse to defer to him in

00:46:13.820 all except extreme cases you would have a team that could not do anything now if you take a

00:46:17.920 squad leader. Maybe he is not the perfect squad leader. He gets it right 75% of the time, 25% of

00:46:23.000 the time he's off, but he has a team that will obey him that he can count on. You've gone from

00:46:27.740 dysfunctional, can't do anything, can't maneuver, can't move, can't suppress fire to a team. You

00:46:32.560 can work with that. But if you take the husband and then you put in his home disharmony, you inject

00:46:37.980 and say, wife, you should be thinking, do I obey this or not? You've gone from functional and we

00:46:42.060 could work on this. Hey, that wasn't the most prudent advice that you gave her to a home that

00:46:46.280 has no harmony, that has no function, where his words and his edicts constantly disobeyed. So

00:46:51.720 military is not a perfect corollary to the family, but it is one where the authority structure is

00:46:56.340 absolutely laid bare. I mean, it's numbers, it's ranks. This is who says who, this is who needs

00:47:00.920 to be obeyed. And if it didn't function like that, if the lower ranks just disobeyed, I mean,

00:47:06.580 they would literally lose their job. They would get discharged. That's how important that is.

00:47:10.780 So take it to the home that leader has to be obeyed, except in those extreme cases,

00:47:15.940 which literally in a marriage there are people in their whole marriage the husband will never

00:47:19.580 truly order the wife to sin like we're literally talking about in a whole town maybe five christian

00:47:25.240 husbands in a year truly given order that's actually sin right yeah on that too i guess

00:47:32.100 it's it's on topic maybe not directly to that tweet but it is a good point within the military

00:47:36.620 structure that authority when you have when you have subordinates you usually the way you exercise

00:47:42.960 that authority is to give leeway to the like if you have a team leader you know you have two team

00:47:47.720 leaders in a fire in a rifle infantry squad and your orders would be broad enough such that they 1.00

00:47:53.780 can make their own decisions autonomously and so i think just as a as as husbands women have their 1.00

00:47:59.820 their their place in the home and in that sphere and so instead of sometimes there's the direct 0.99

00:48:05.820 like you must do this but there's also that that broad command of this is the end state

00:48:11.880 these are some of the things i need to have done but now now go and you know do it right so it just

00:48:16.760 doesn't yeah um so probably probably a better you know instead of saying wear the red dresses or

00:48:23.700 only what it was something like you know like the the wear the dresses and then they get to choose

00:48:29.020 she's called in scripture the despot the ruler of the home like that actually means something

00:48:32.820 under the headship of the husband but still with authority it's like owner and manager

00:48:37.040 michael was there anything that you wanted to say right okay so one of the things that i

00:48:40.940 previously said you know i immediately responded to it on x um and for whatever reason i see people

00:48:46.100 do videos that are like 10 minutes long all the time and i suck with technology and i can't figure

00:48:51.000 it out um so x only lets me do two minute and 20 second videos if i just record one on my phone and

00:48:56.760 and upload it uh but you know what in god's providence it's probably a really good discipline

00:49:01.620 and so i i did two videos one responding to the abigail uh moscow uh situation and one responding

00:49:07.360 to the red dress fiasco. And on the red dress one, I had to boil it down to two minutes and

00:49:13.000 20 seconds. We'll see if I can do it today. But I said something along these lines. I said,

00:49:16.600 one of the aspects of authority, the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church and

00:49:22.160 gave himself up for him. So a sacrificial love, protection, and provision. And one example,

00:49:27.020 even though it's outside of the household, this would be a civil ruler, but one example of a

00:49:31.080 tyrannical authority, I think of Pharaoh, who had a demand but did not supply the resources for the

00:49:38.120 demand. So Jesus, you know, he loves the bride, but he also is the head of the church, which is

00:49:43.060 his body, and he gives her commands. But the beauty of Jesus is he also provides all the necessary

00:49:48.280 resources, the means for obedience. Jesus doesn't command us to do things without being able to

00:49:54.080 obey. Jesus is the opposite of a tyrant, such as Pharaoh would be a good biblical example. So he

00:50:01.760 gives a command, but decides no longer to provide the resources, the means for obeying the command.

00:50:07.480 The quintessential example would be when Pharaoh says, I demand bricks, but without straw. Well,

00:50:13.340 Jesus doesn't do that. He makes demands on his bride, but he lavishly provides for her out of

00:50:19.260 his own richness in her sanctification, with virtue, with character, with physical provision,

00:50:25.560 just as he feeds the birds of the air and clothes, the lilies of the field, all these ways,

00:50:29.600 Jesus makes demands on his bride, but he provides the resources for her to obey. Well, good husband,

00:50:35.780 if we are called in Ephesians 5 to follow the example of Christ that he sets, you know, the

00:50:40.240 example for us, back to the red dress example, what if a husband, right, because the way that

00:50:47.260 questions being posed is basically, if you answer no, you're saying there's never a scenario.

00:50:51.940 It's never, she should never obey. And I'm thinking, wait a second, hold up. Aside from

00:50:56.640 just simply the biblical principle of, you know, wives submit to your husbands and everything,

00:51:00.900 let's just get a little bit hypothetical, just for fun, just for a moment. What if a husband

00:51:06.160 says to his bride, sweetheart, from the day I met you, you have always looked gorgeous and red.

00:51:12.860 the way that it accents your lips um it's just it's beautiful and and you know the first time

00:51:19.280 that i met you actually wearing a red dress and it brings back sentiment and memory and fondness

00:51:23.580 and um and we also have three little girls in the house and there's something about dresses even if

00:51:29.220 they're not red red's just my preference i love it it just it makes me fall in love with you all

00:51:33.380 over again but dresses regardless of the color um that they display modesty but a modesty that's

00:51:40.960 not frumpy a modesty that still also portrays beauty femininity um elegance and we've got these

00:51:46.980 young impressionable daughters and everywhere they go they see women with you know denim jeans

00:51:51.260 painted on you know and spandex and yoga pants painted on uh women you know wearing a three-piece 0.86

00:51:57.420 pantsuits you know um it's either immodest or it's masculine there's so few examples our girls 0.91

00:52:04.880 are bombarded by example after example after example of women in the culture, and sadly even

00:52:11.780 in the church often, where it's not modesty, it's not femininity, it's not elegance, it's not beauty,

00:52:18.140 and you, as a chief feminine example in our home as a mother, I just think for a season,

00:52:24.440 it would be so wonderful for me, for the intimacy of our marriage, for my own personal preference,

00:52:30.820 and the way that I love you and find you to be so beautiful

00:52:33.020 and as a godly example of femininity and beauty and elegance

00:52:36.460 for our daughters in the home,

00:52:38.060 would you be willing to wear a red dress every day

00:52:41.180 for the next three months?

00:52:43.380 And here's, you know, not bricks with no straw,

00:52:45.740 but rather like Jesus gives the command,

00:52:47.360 but also resources the bride to obey.

00:52:49.400 And you get to go shopping, sweetheart.

00:52:51.780 I worked hard.

00:52:52.560 I just got a bonus at work.

00:52:53.960 And you get to pick out the dresses.

00:52:56.260 They need to be dresses and they need to be red.

00:52:58.100 but I want you to go and buy yourself 21 new red dresses of your choice

00:53:05.860 and then put them on a three-week rotation for the next three months.

00:53:11.260 Is that sin?

00:53:12.820 And I would say, Pastor Tom Buck, with all due respect, no. 1.00

00:53:17.820 So get your stupid question out of my Twitter thread. 0.99

00:53:21.540 I don't think it's helpful for the body of Christ. 1.00

00:53:25.080 Okay, let's go to our last commercial break of the day.

00:53:27.240 we'll come back say a few more words and we'll land the plane take some questions if you have

00:53:31.280 yeah we'll take questions give us some questions all right that's it guys i tried to warn you

00:53:35.700 the time has finally arrived our early bird pricing is gone but don't despair we've gone

00:53:42.060 above and beyond to make this conference affordable to all so even now it's only 170 bucks for an

00:53:48.420 adult it's cheap for teenagers and free for kids what am i talking about well i'm talking about

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00:55:55.960 in the word all right we're back this is what we want to do we want to take uh questions from

00:56:04.560 the chat so uh if you write something in the chat um and you put a question mark at the end

00:56:10.520 then uh then nathan's going to go ahead and uh separate those and put them in a separate column

00:56:15.700 and we'll start going one by one through them

00:56:18.060 as many as we can.

00:56:19.600 And as you're formulating your question real quick,

00:56:21.860 one more time, I wanna reiterate as an announcement,

00:56:25.860 Patreon, I forgot to give the link.

00:56:27.780 So patreon.com forward slash Right Response Ministries,

00:56:31.000 patreon.com forward slash Right Response Ministries.

00:56:33.960 And there's two things.

00:56:34.880 So one, right now, you'll be able to watch

00:56:37.340 the full nine-part series ad-free

00:56:39.220 with Andrew Isker and myself on Israel and the Jews

00:56:43.760 and how christians should be thinking about these things uh so that's ad free all nine episodes

00:56:48.340 available right now um a lot of people we i we got like a few i think a couple thousand new

00:56:55.260 patreon members and a lot of people have been talking about it and said it's blessed them

00:56:58.560 i've got lots of emails um people saying like one it opened my eyes it red-pilled me and then

00:57:04.000 other people on the other side of the aisle saying it it kind of actually brought me back from being

00:57:07.820 on the edge to a more reasonable uh position that's biblically rooted and doesn't go too far

00:57:12.540 so check that out patreon.com forward slash right response ministries if you sign up today for even

00:57:19.340 just the lowest tier five bucks a month the silver tier you'll be able to start watching right now

00:57:24.060 the season on israel with me and pastor isker and then you'll also be ready to go because it's not

00:57:30.060 that long from now in just four short weeks yeah we're going to start dropping weekly behind

00:57:35.820 exclusively for our patreon members the 10 part series with me and dr steven wolf and so you'll

00:57:42.420 get full access to the nine-part series with Isker now. You'll be ready to go four weeks from now

00:57:48.140 when we start the series with Stephen Wolf, and that's going to be really great. And then the

00:57:53.160 last thing I want to say is our little advertisement for the conference actually reminded me to go

00:57:59.160 ahead and mention this. We have said, hey, we've got a mystery speaker, Pastor Jeff Durbin, who we

00:58:03.720 love. He dropped, and he never even gave a reason. No, he did give a reason. The reason is sitting

00:58:08.940 two feet to my left um he said he didn't want to do it uh my yes uh four feet to my left michael

00:58:15.380 no um so so uh so anyway so so pastor uh jeff durbin who who we love he's he's not going to

00:58:21.940 come to the conference that's a shame i wish he would come and i wish you know we could hash it

00:58:25.480 out and whatever uh but uh steven is going to be doing a debate with um with uh david reese pastor

00:58:32.480 david reese i think that's going to be awesome and it's going to be a formal debate not just

00:58:35.700 informal i'm probably even not going to moderate i was talking it's on red dresses right it's on

00:58:40.500 red no it's going to be on theonomy versus natural law the way we're going to frame it is we're going

00:58:44.960 to um you know i i teased uh steven about this yesterday i said this is how i'm going to frame

00:58:49.220 it i'm going to put uh david on the defensive um he's going to be for you're going to be against

00:58:53.380 and it's going to be um david defending um the sufficiency of scripture and steven wolf attacking

00:58:58.580 so we're not going to do it we're not going to the bible is enough and steven saying no it's not

00:59:03.060 um no we're not going to do that we're going to frame it instead we're going to frame it um

00:59:06.480 steven on the defensive uh for being a defensive natural law something like that yeah and uh and

00:59:12.760 then david being on the against and uh i talked to nathan yesterday uh you don't even know this

00:59:17.660 but you're about to find out live um i'm probably going to have you moderate okay um so that i won't

00:59:25.280 uh screw it up because i because if i moderate the debate i might just go ahead and uh and join

00:59:31.800 the debate and i don't i don't want to which would actually be kind of funny because i'd find myself

00:59:35.620 probably on both sides um so i love it but yeah people would love it but no it's not fair to

00:59:40.340 steve it's not fair to david um so we don't want to do uh informal um uh discussion where we

00:59:46.220 disagree we actually want to do a formal debate not because we want to be hostile it'll be

00:59:49.500 charitable um but because we want it to be clear and by having a lot of times and all that kind

00:59:54.900 of stuff then steven will get to say everything he needs to stay david will get to say everything

00:59:58.220 he needs to say and um and so that's going to happen uh but we uh all that back to jeff durbin

01:00:02.960 um jeff durbin went ahead and dropped the conference blessings on on apology no hard

01:00:07.220 feelings um but we have been announcing for a few weeks now that we're going to have a mystery guest

01:00:11.920 who is it going to be and um and uh the announcement the surprise is here's the big uh uh unveiling

01:00:18.240 uh it's me twice no no no it's not um no uh so i can't tell you who it is but um but we actually

01:00:26.040 have settled on someone yep and it's actually i think it's gonna blow your mind it's actually um

01:00:31.360 someone who's uh very well known and um and and who i i like and has some great stuff to say

01:00:37.680 and uh we've you know been forming a little bit of a friendship offline uh very recently and he

01:00:43.700 just told me today uh that he's willing to come but i want to wait and get a contract signed um

01:00:50.180 just in case before announcing and then having to say two weeks later and another guy dropped

01:00:55.020 our conference so um we will be unveiling uh but but we have made a decision and we'll be unveiling

01:01:00.980 and lord willing the next couple weeks and i think all of you guys will be uh not only um happy but

01:01:06.220 i think some of you will be um let's just say pleasantly surprised i think you'll be like whoa

01:01:11.900 that's awesome so we're very excited about that go to um right response conference so sign up for

01:01:17.920 the patreon patreon.com forward slash right response ministries isker now wolf coming in a

01:01:23.140 month and then also register for the conference do uh instead of right response ministries it's

01:01:28.440 right response conference.com right response conference.com again that's going to be a full

01:01:34.200 day thursday friday and saturday 2025 um april 3rd through 5th so april 3rd through 5th uh 2025

01:01:42.960 thursday friday and saturday we've got john harris we've got andrew isker we've got uh who do we have

01:01:48.160 orin mcintyre steve days uh david reese steven wolf you guys me and uh brian silvey and eric

01:01:56.220 con and all the ogden boys and uh and a mystery guest that we've decided we'll unveil soon super

01:02:00.900 excited about that uh last thing nate do we have any kind of uh i'm feeling you know it's christmas

01:02:06.300 i'm feeling uh i'm feeling uh generous um do we have any kind of promo code that i can give to

01:02:12.380 our listeners that they can use to get a discount all right give nathan one second

01:02:19.240 dun dun dun dun dun dun dun he's coming up with a promo right now uh how much percent off what

01:02:26.800 do we want to make it 20 percent sure 20 off man you guys don't know how excited special deal

01:02:36.500 only for you um we probably will limit though in time i think just for the next 24 hours

01:02:43.320 so if people are watching the video later uh tough uh you should be neglecting your children

01:02:48.360 and watching when i live straight at the dinner table 5 p.m okay so it's going to be all caps

01:02:55.960 and the word is natural law no red red dresses all one word all caps red dresses

01:03:05.940 one word all caps red dresses for 20 off and uh just for the next 24 hours we'll take down the

01:03:12.480 promo code it'll be over uh by tomorrow night uh but for the rest of the day and uh during the

01:03:17.620 daytime tomorrow go to right response conference.com in the promo code slot uh type in red

01:03:23.640 dresses as one word all caps get 20 off okay questions what do we got sorry not questions

01:03:28.800 we have two super chats that we should at least oh yeah yeah let's give them a shout out what are

01:03:32.580 i i only see that we have two nate uh find them real quick for us what do we got uh two dollars

01:03:39.180 and five dollars no sorry guys got to be more money than that and i'm just um uh so uh super

01:03:44.320 chat uh the first one is from uh lion of the north 96 said excited for steven's friday special

01:03:51.700 season me too uh if he ever starts a patreon or the like he needs uh to call joining uh the wolf

01:04:00.520 pack that's great or lone wolf i love it that would work yep that's good no it needs to be

01:04:05.520 wolf pack you're right lion lion of the north 96 that's my family though i guess i could have an

01:04:10.420 extended family everyone's your family if there's anything that i've learned uh natural family

01:04:17.180 doesn't mean anything that's right um the the random anon on twitter is just as close to you

01:04:22.160 as your own wife and children as long as they profess christ um and then the other super chat

01:04:26.500 is Michael. Michael says, when did, oh, no, I'm not going to read it. I'm sorry, Michael. I love

01:04:32.780 you. I love you. And I understand the sentiment. I understand the concern. Michael, I'm sure you're

01:04:37.820 listening. I don't think it's that far. I don't think that's fair. But I think you are right in

01:04:43.540 a general sense that it does, it's unnecessary. And it does feel like a little bit of a retraction,

01:04:50.720 a little bit of a shift to the left.

01:04:54.620 Hopefully it's not.

01:04:55.680 And I think in the meantime,

01:04:56.920 what we can do is we can do our best

01:04:58.400 to exactly what we're trying to model today.

01:05:01.000 You don't just tow the party line.

01:05:02.680 So offer a disagreement where necessary.

01:05:05.800 Do it respectfully.

01:05:07.520 And also one of the things you can do

01:05:09.740 is you can talk.

01:05:11.340 But for every minute you spend talking,

01:05:13.820 you could also spend two minutes praying.

01:05:16.080 God shapes the heart of the king,

01:05:17.680 guides it like water,

01:05:18.940 whatever direction he wants it to go.

01:05:20.720 So pray for our brothers in Christ.

01:05:22.580 Okay, questions.

01:05:24.460 This one from Truddle.

01:05:26.820 Question.

01:05:27.520 Thoughts on egalitarian streak in contexts where it's not quite the same sign of liberalism like in the mainline churches.

01:05:34.800 AG, I think standing for Assemblies of God, for instance, is otherwise solid socially like the mainstreams aren't or the mainlines aren't.

01:05:42.380 So mainline churches that would be socially and culturally liberal, transgenderism, LGBTQ.

01:05:47.340 you'd have assemblies of god and as i understand it they would ordain pastors but pretty much

01:05:52.060 women as pastors yeah but it pretty much stops there so none of the gender nonsense nazarene

01:05:57.400 would be similar nazarene like that so where does kind of egalitarianism fit in there when 0.73

01:06:01.500 it doesn't necessarily accompany liberalism is gender egalitarianism yeah yeah

01:06:06.920 i i'd say i i mean i i don't know much about these ag um but i i would say that the um

01:06:16.840 just think charismatics yeah but i would just say like broadly yeah i mean you guys can talk

01:06:22.300 about that but i just say broadly speaking the a lot of the a lot of people learned from the main

01:06:26.840 line that they once they went like going theologically liberal coincided with them

01:06:32.000 going politically liberal whereas i think a lot of conservative people nowadays realize and we

01:06:37.600 saw this over the last 10-15 years which is that you can maintain your theological orthodoxy and

01:06:43.040 soteriology doctrine of god you know ecclesiology and i'd have and and all that you can you can

01:06:48.680 maintain the confession while your your politics actually be is just is liberal right right so um

01:06:55.460 that and you see that that's like classic um i'd say it's like tim keller that would be true for

01:07:00.720 gospel coalition russell moore all those guys so you can check off all the boxes theologically but

01:07:07.360 put it politically you're you're sliding to the left you can even do it as i said the other week

01:07:11.460 as a theonomist, Joel McDermott would be an example.

01:07:15.720 Okay, next one.

01:07:17.680 Michael, can you read the next one for us?

01:07:18.840 I'm coming back.

01:07:19.340 This is from Adam Rasset.

01:07:20.840 Question, I'm coming back from a deployment overseas

01:07:22.740 and God has provided a hard reset in my life

01:07:25.420 and a desire to find a Christian borough.

01:07:27.720 What should I do to find one? 1.00

01:07:30.620 So first thing I would say is there are plenty

01:07:32.720 of Christian boroughs that we've never heard of

01:07:34.620 and never will. 1.00

01:07:36.100 It's not like guys with podcasts

01:07:38.100 are the only ones who are faithful.

01:07:39.260 sometimes got the guys with podcasts including myself um might might actually be failing to be

01:07:44.720 faithful in certain arenas um however it is difficult i think to find a christian borough

01:07:51.740 um because here's the thing it takes time it's it's like you can't just visit a church on sunday

01:07:57.660 and know everything that's going on and find out about you know whether or not they have a

01:08:01.160 classical school and what that looks like and um and find out you know whether or not the wives are

01:08:05.580 good at making sourdough you know and and find out you know all all the things that come with

01:08:09.380 christian burroughs you know and um you know how active they are in politics and uh it takes time

01:08:14.020 and so one of the things that is helpful with the guys who are podcasting and it's not to give them

01:08:17.420 preference um but but it's just to say for the for the sake of uh thoroughness of of knowledge and

01:08:24.800 and being able to vet uh beforehand preemptively um yeah if a guy has has a podcast and and you

01:08:32.140 could do some of this with even uh just sermons uh even if they don't have a podcast but listening

01:08:35.860 to their sermons online that that's what i i feel like that's the only thing i can really recommend

01:08:39.700 is go and visit in person spend a weekend um somewhere but obviously you can't do that you

01:08:45.620 know you can't do 20 trips you probably don't have the time or or the funds for that and a weekend

01:08:50.660 uh you can figure out some things but there's still a lot that you can't figure out in a weekend

01:08:54.100 so what you're gonna have to do is you're gonna have to listen and um and and so you know so

01:08:59.620 finding guys and and listening to their sermons or if they have a podcast listening to their

01:09:04.060 podcast and you can you know digest you know 20 episodes of something over the course of a couple

01:09:09.000 weeks and then you have a really thorough idea of uh what they're all about beyond just um their

01:09:15.000 church polity or their you know statement of faith but in terms of uh what what is the ethos

01:09:19.880 what's the culture what's what's the vision what what's uh what's their their goals and their

01:09:23.980 ambition um and and so anyways um this isn't to say there aren't faithful guys that i don't know

01:09:29.880 about but the guys that i do know about that i would vouch for is um ogden is fantastic um so

01:09:35.260 if you can't move to ogden um it's beautiful it's pretty uh four seasons all four seasons uh it's

01:09:42.980 uh utah is generally conservative as a state you know um chalk that up to uh the mormons god bless

01:09:49.420 awesome um i will say in over the summer in ogden i saw more pride flags outside of homes that's

01:09:54.860 true it was surprisingly bad well so there's the dynamic it's mormon land but it's also mountains

01:10:01.020 and every pretty place right it's an undetreable law every geographically pretty place with nice

01:10:06.360 weather uh must be uh sodomite friendly so what's the yeah what's the name of the organization or

01:10:12.600 network that john harris talks about occasionally no no no he's got like a church finding network

01:10:18.800 work i forget i don't know that would be a great resource too bad we don't know what it is but

01:10:22.640 yeah uh so ogden is a great one i would also say um obviously i mean you can you know the amref guys

01:10:28.620 um and and some of their projects rich runner yeah rich runner projects in tennessee yeah check

01:10:34.260 that out because you've got uh you're gonna have a like not just one pastor but you're gonna have

01:10:38.460 like a right what we call an all-star cap you know like you're gonna have cj angle and andrew

01:10:43.700 risk i mean it's going to be josh abattoi well i was so i i don't know he says deployment if he's

01:10:49.140 active duty he's not moving anywhere he has to go wherever they they send him or whatever i thought

01:10:53.300 he was saying he was about to get out yeah hard reset like reset would mean you you're redeployed

01:10:58.400 you come back and you reset so i don't know if he means national guard or because in that case he

01:11:02.860 could move i i would just say i don't know the situation but um like we talked about this one

01:11:08.580 of the videos is find a group of guys locally that you can get together twice a month or once

01:11:14.220 a month at a cigar lounge or at a bar or whatever. I do it twice a month and we read through or we

01:11:21.140 talk about an American Reformer article. We're like-minded guys. So if you can't find an actual

01:11:26.260 borough itself to move to like Ogden and these other places or Ridge Runner places,

01:11:31.660 somehow find that local group of guys who are like-minded where you can get together and

01:11:36.280 and have a little mini you know burrow for two hours uh and that i think that that that'd be

01:11:41.820 good for someone do it wisely because you're in the military uh but uh but anyway if that's the

01:11:47.940 case you're active duty then didn't do that at whatever post you're at yeah that's good truth

01:11:51.560 script church finder yeah uh nathan just uh showed that somebody in the chat put it thank you so if

01:11:57.000 you want harris's a list of vetted churches um truth script church finder there's two super

01:12:03.880 chats maybe we get to just in case we don't get through the whole list this first one from

01:12:08.540 jeff halfley what were some great moments in the american history where the conservative

01:12:13.940 slash reform side won or lost a key battle example of jay gresham machin and the opc

01:12:19.260 well lost a key battle would be the uh i forget the name but they're uh people like charles hodge

01:12:29.260 and his son. Ahaj? Yeah, Ahaj. They were a part of a movement around the time of Lincoln in the

01:12:36.340 1850s and 60s. I don't know the exact time frame. This would be a loss. So, it was actually among

01:12:41.560 the Reformed who wanted to revise the preamble of the Constitution to recognize Christ. And

01:12:48.360 apparently, Lincoln was actually open to it, but then he was killed. So, that was a loss. But that

01:12:54.380 was actually led by reformed ministers through in a reformed organization so um you know maybe

01:13:00.720 there's a history of trying to make america a christian nation well no there wasn't there was

01:13:04.420 a history well yeah there was a history of saying we are a christian nation why is it not in our

01:13:09.760 constitution yeah um and that's that's still our our mission goal today so cool interesting

01:13:15.580 i'll go ahead and read the next one all right this is from josh pulver when will the condensed

01:13:20.700 version of wolf is wolf's book be released i read like a snail yeah i write like a snail um i i

01:13:27.360 don't know the exact i don't want to give a time frame on it it'll be next year we'll just put it

01:13:31.540 that way because i really don't know sometime next year yeah sometime next year i'll try to

01:13:36.920 get it done as soon as i can and all that stuff so great uh go back up to the top nate let's now

01:13:43.020 go prioritize order uh sacred penguin is that we're at yep scared penguin

01:13:48.880 um that sounds like neo-calvinist everything there's no sacred anyway right yeah yeah

01:13:58.220 everything's sacred everything um will you consider a part two to the jew israel series

01:14:04.400 cover best ways to effectively witness to them uh that's that's a great idea i i don't know if we

01:14:10.680 could get a um part two series but what andrew and i could do because we have talked about that

01:14:16.500 and it's important um you know uh andrew i have both said we hate talmudic judaism but we love

01:14:22.340 jews and wish them a very pleasant conversion to christianity so um i don't think we could do a

01:14:26.720 whole uh series scared penguin uh but i do think that we could what we could do is like a um a

01:14:33.620 bonus episode like just a full episode on uh evangelizing jews and and that's a great idea

01:14:38.820 all right what's the best way to communicate these truths to our more feminist brothers

01:14:45.660 and sisters so keyword they're being brothers and sisters i suppose so dealing with a christian

01:14:50.400 audience i i'll mention just one thing here i mentioned to someone recently specifically in

01:14:55.960 the context of this red dress controversy and he was talking about well now his wife's a little bit

01:15:00.100 upset with him because he said well yes that is what the verse says and now i said that's great

01:15:07.100 i love seeing reform pastors just a heartwarming example of them sowing marital discord husband and

01:15:13.420 wife now upset at each other praise god that's great i said to him sarcasm you don't need your

01:15:19.060 wife to agree with that statement at least not right now yeah what you need to do is you need

01:15:24.220 to build into your family or your church the doctrine of patriarchy of of roles of biblical

01:15:32.240 roles and they need to be rooted pre-fall um so it needs to be presented as as not just something

01:15:38.160 that men and women have to deal with,

01:15:40.420 but with God's best design for humanity.

01:15:44.520 And that needs to be presented and reinforced slowly,

01:15:50.020 especially if it's your spouse, right?

01:15:51.780 Do not run into there and just say,

01:15:54.360 you've got to do everything I say right now.

01:15:57.560 While that's true, right?

01:15:59.640 It's true.

01:16:00.660 Go slowly, present the word, let the word do its work.

01:16:04.560 Strive to be an excellent leader

01:16:06.600 Because part of the problem is women are convinced that if they submit, their husband is just going to be the kind who spends, you know, 20 hours a week watching football. 0.95

01:16:18.100 But no, it goes both ways.

01:16:20.360 She submits to a man who, she submits, that's her calling.

01:16:23.680 But ideally, the leadership role that a husband is to exercise is supposed to be substantial.

01:16:29.560 And so that leading a family and submitting make sense together.

01:16:35.660 so i don't know it's if it's in the family if it's in your family or in your church close friends

01:16:41.100 don't push too hard too quickly one piece of advice that's good that i often give that's

01:16:46.180 painfully practical but highly effective and it plays into kind of the top of the episode and what

01:16:51.960 what steven said women tend to be more consensus driven and men tend to be more contrarian

01:16:58.740 um well you can be strategic and shrewd not compromised and not deceitful but but wise 0.91

01:17:05.840 um and play into that feminine nature of them being consensus driven uh if you want your wife 1.00

01:17:11.640 uh to become super duper based uh get her around um based women like seriously uh like 1.00

01:17:24.340 you can show her the truths of scripture and that should be enough should be enough and over time

01:17:30.500 if she's a christian by the power of the holy spirit and sanctification i i have to believe

01:17:34.800 that that it can be enough and often will be enough um but also you can play to her natural

01:17:41.500 disposition um if uh if a family moves to georgetown all right i'd like to think that

01:17:48.440 we're one of the uh the the boroughs that people could uh select back to a previous question if

01:17:53.940 somebody moves to georgetown and joins covenant bible church and uh and the wife has a pattern of

01:18:01.000 of um being insubordinate and disrespecting her husband and not submitting to him um it's not just

01:18:08.080 that her husband would be trying to lead her in the opposite direction but every single woman in

01:18:12.600 church would as well she will be um she's going to experience some what i would call righteous

01:18:19.260 peer pressure he's going to feel out of place she might even be a little bit embarrassed like one

01:18:24.700 of the reasons why women sometimes object to their husband even though they should trust him 0.61

01:18:28.400 one of the reasons they object to their husband is because the husband is the minority and the 1.00

01:18:32.660 consensus everyone else around them is reinforcing their feminist default factory settings so get her 1.00

01:18:41.020 out of that environment and so like so what community you choose to be a part of what church 0.73

01:18:46.520 you choose to be members is paramount and if it's like well but we're going to the best church that

01:18:52.040 we can find within a 60 mile radius and all that like i get it in some cases move well we can't

01:18:56.320 move because uh you know both pawpaws not just one but both of our pawpaws and our meemaws you

01:19:00.620 know they're they're both sick you know and we have i get it there's family uh obligations but

01:19:05.040 so you may not be able to go to a good church and blah blah blah um but here's something you can do

01:19:09.500 and and i know that there's a little bit of a price but i mean you know um well what's the value

01:19:15.440 of your wife's soul and the value of your marriage and all these kinds of things like

01:19:18.220 um okay you can't find a church well maybe you can't go to a great church every single week

01:19:23.960 but um you could go to a conference once a year conference is just for the record it is not about

01:19:29.400 the content our conference we're going to do everything we can to provide great content but

01:19:34.800 you can all the content will eventually be available on youtube right spoiler alert um

01:19:39.500 you know like you technically don't have to come to our conference if all you want is the content

01:19:43.720 but here's the point um the point is that content is not the point uh the the purpose of conferences

01:19:50.420 it's uh it's the relationships it's the networking um and it's and it's a three-day reprieve from a

01:19:56.420 world that's gone to hell in a handbasket to be just simply reminded to have a sanity check and

01:20:01.020 be reminded that you're not alone and that you're not crazy and to be around other like-minded

01:20:05.840 people and uh and your wife if she's not particularly on board but she's open but

01:20:10.760 She's not really on board with some of these things. 0.84

01:20:12.800 She's not really patriarchal.

01:20:15.240 Bring her to the New Christmum Conference.

01:20:17.480 Bring her to the Right Response Conference, 1.00

01:20:19.060 and she'll be surrounded by a bunch of women 1.00

01:20:21.340 who are joyfully submitting to their husbands, 0.99

01:20:23.860 children that are playing around during the sessions,

01:20:26.460 and she'll see a few head coverings in the mix

01:20:28.840 and all these kinds of things,

01:20:30.220 and she'll realize, hey, there's a bunch of happy families.

01:20:33.740 Maybe this isn't so crazy.

01:20:35.400 There's a consensus. 0.96

01:20:37.020 And literally, her feminine disposition

01:20:38.960 that's preordained towards the majority might be right or even the majority must be right get her

01:20:44.720 around a thousand people who are all telling her she's wrong and without even saying it without

01:20:48.780 being disrespectful but but merely by their presence and their actions and um and she'll be

01:20:53.700 like oh there's actually a lot of people who think like my husband so maybe i can agree with him now

01:20:58.020 right use that to your advantage yeah that's my thought all right one more question and uh let's

01:21:05.040 call it a day this is this real quick someone's asking if they can if there's going to be an

01:21:09.560 option to pay to watch the conference live yes uh so you got the isker series now on patreon

01:21:15.020 you got steven wolf coming out in january it's going to be at first on patreon and uh you also

01:21:19.900 have same thing the conference will be available um exclusively to live stream as it's happening

01:21:25.180 on patreon and not only to live stream if you miss it as it's happening uh the full recorded

01:21:29.860 sessions will be right there every single one of them the debate uh the panels the the major

01:21:34.360 sessions all of it will be available on patreon the moment that it happens and um and then it will

01:21:40.660 be eventually made be made available to the public but we're going to slow drip out one piece it's

01:21:45.060 going to be three panels eight main sessions so 11 pieces of content dropped one per week one per

01:21:51.360 week so you're talking almost three months by the time you get all of them out um and so all that

01:21:56.000 will be dropped one of these 11 pieces of content per week uh to the public but if you want all 11

01:22:02.300 pieces of content to watch live as it's happening or in the next couple days or the next couple

01:22:06.580 weeks you don't want to wait um go to patreon and that one i'm pretty sure uh for the live stream

01:22:12.020 we're going to make that available uh for our gold tier patreon members but again that'll be

01:22:16.200 patreon.com forward slash right response ministries patreon.com forward slash right response ministries

01:22:21.180 gold tier it'll be 10 bucks um and you'll basically get to virtually attend our conference for 10

01:22:26.720 bucks you can watch the stuff and cancel if you want so you should do it i'll end with a two-part

01:22:31.440 a super chat they're both for steven so okay two simple questions jeff halfley what are some of

01:22:36.840 your favorite founders who are also vocal christians examples like patrick hendry and

01:22:40.800 roger sherman and samuel adams and then steven from michael which ministries do you think have

01:22:46.060 helped advance christian nationalism the most so favorite founders who are christian and then

01:22:50.460 ministries today that are helping yeah i mean everyone loves sam adams samuel adams so i won't

01:22:54.760 mention that but i actually really like roger sherman he's one of those forgotten founders

01:22:58.480 He was very, very important from everything from Continental Congress to First Amendment.

01:23:03.920 He was on that committee.

01:23:05.720 John Adams called him an old Puritan, and he was a very, very important man.

01:23:11.680 He also, he dialogued with Jonathan Edwards' son.

01:23:16.060 John Edwards?

01:23:16.840 I don't remember now.

01:23:17.840 I don't remember his name, but yeah, and there's writings of Roger Sherman where he was like

01:23:22.320 an amateur theologian, and it was like clearly old-style orthodoxy.

01:23:26.240 It was like old-side orthodoxy.

01:23:27.680 so i always like roger sherman less known um but yeah there's also john witherspoon and i who's the

01:23:33.760 other guy patrick hent uh patrick if you there's an orson wells reading of patrick henry's um give

01:23:40.400 me a liberty speech so if you see if you like search that on on youtube and it's really great

01:23:45.040 so watch that um all right and so the uh which ministry you think is help advance christian

01:23:49.840 national i would say uh sovereign nations has done a lot for me no actually i mean in a way

01:23:56.800 that's where i got my start like a lot of the book was uh from the articles for that that's true

01:24:01.520 that's funny now they don't exactly like me um but i think like right response joel webin um

01:24:07.600 is also i mean good friends have been like john harris john harris doesn't say he's a christian

01:24:12.000 nationalist he doesn't identify with that but he's been a good friend um i don't know american american

01:24:18.960 yeah yeah i mean he and i are not like he doesn't totally align with what i say but but he's a good

01:24:23.280 guy um uh american reformer of course so american reformer is crucial uh that's that's like in terms

01:24:31.020 of like print in terms of like articles that is the spearhead for for uh not just christian

01:24:37.240 nationalism but the broad christian right so if you're not following american reformer or getting

01:24:41.120 the emails go go on there and subscribe to those guys definitely all right guys um oh and i saw in

01:24:48.020 chat a few people asked uh how's mabel she is doing great um and one of the the challenges that

01:24:53.580 we have had um is when it comes to uh nursing and some of you guys were aware of that and have been

01:25:00.880 praying and uh i'm pleased to say she's about a month old uh gaining weight even ahead of schedule

01:25:07.520 and no supplementing necessary and this is our fifth child the first time that god has enabled

01:25:13.520 my wife to be able to do that so my wife is almost um almost in tears with just how happy

01:25:19.140 and grateful she is so um things are going great i appreciate you guys um asking and your prayers

01:25:23.960 and concern for her and um please uh keep our ministry um in your prayers um controversy

01:25:32.260 doesn't bother me a whole lot but it is tiring at times so pray that the lord would sustain me

01:25:36.620 and that i would be faithful and um and vigilant and and that i would be uh never back down in

01:25:42.280 terms of courage, but also that I would continue to refine in terms of wisdom, that I wouldn't be

01:25:47.040 foolish, that it wouldn't just be controversy for controversy's sake, and kind of a blend of

01:25:53.500 Right Response Ministries and Mabel and my family. We've got five kids. They're all little, all under 0.98

01:25:59.100 the age of seven, and a newborn that's a month old. And so we have needs on the family side

01:26:09.180 where right response um right and it blends over to where like right response basically we need

01:26:15.040 i've said this before but we need some help we need um some staff um we need some more resources

01:26:19.720 we need some more some extra space uh to rent and things like that and um and we're coming up on the

01:26:26.000 end of the year and i don't want to be a burden to anybody don't ever do this as a substitute to

01:26:31.300 tithing to your local church or anything like that um nobody needs to you know have their kids

01:26:35.620 skip a meal you know on behalf of this ministry but if the lord has um enabled you and blessed you

01:26:40.900 and if he's used this ministry as a spiritual blessing and it's not at the expense of your

01:26:46.140 family your church then we humbly request that you would consider not just you know coming to

01:26:50.600 a conference or paying for content with patreon but um we are a non-profit um organization a

01:26:57.280 ministry and um and we we ultimately uh survive off of simply generosity and your donations and

01:27:05.320 And so here at the end, we're coming up at the end of the year.

01:27:08.120 We're able to offer tax receipts.

01:27:10.300 Your gifts are tax deductible.

01:27:13.400 And so here at the end of the year, my prayer, I'm not really, I haven't pushed for it much,

01:27:18.080 but I'm praying that God in his kindness and faithfulness towards us as we seek to be faithful to you

01:27:23.240 is that God would move on the hearts of some of you to give some like really generous, larger gifts,

01:27:31.380 end of the year gifts.

01:27:32.440 And so it's the month of December.

01:27:34.300 we're here at the end of the year for tax purposes and generosity purposes and all those

01:27:39.380 things. If you would consider giving a gift to Right Response, whether big or small, we would

01:27:44.940 be incredibly grateful and appreciative for that. You can do so by going to rightresponseministries.com

01:27:52.540 forward slash donate. Again, that's rightresponseministries.com forward slash donate.

01:27:59.420 Your gifts are tax deductible, and every single penny will be used not just to make somebody

01:28:06.620 comfortable, but to either get another camera or a few more square feet or an administrative

01:28:14.740 assistant or Michael and Wes.

01:28:17.140 We're doing the live stream.

01:28:18.180 It's going to be three times next year instead of once.

01:28:20.820 That's just too much for me to expect it to be pro bono.

01:28:23.840 And so I need to, the only way they're able to do that is they're going to be pulling

01:28:26.700 back from their day jobs and that income has to be made up with Right Response so that they can come

01:28:31.720 and be a blessing to me and be a blessing to you and offer their services and their wisdom and

01:28:35.760 their insight three times a week instead of one. And it's just the reality of the world. All those

01:28:40.240 things cost money. So if you're willing to be generous towards this ministry, we're incredibly

01:28:44.880 grateful. Thank you so much. Again, rightresponseministries.com forward slash donate. Merry

01:28:50.880 christmas lord willing we'll see you again next week um and stay faithful and trust the lord 0.99

01:28:57.940 be bold and also don't be stupid all right 0.99

The NXR Podcast - December 04, 2024

THE LIVESTREAM - Nabal, Abigail, and Red Dresses

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