THE LIVESTREAM - Nabal, Abigail, and Red Dresses
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 29 minutes
Harmful content
Misogyny
32
sentences flagged
Toxicity
16
sentences flagged
Hate speech
43
sentences flagged
Summary
In this episode, Dr. Stephen W. Wolfe joins us to discuss the need for women who are willing to stand up to their husbands on issues ranging from seed oils to the 19th Amendment, to revoice for Nazis, and much more.
Transcript
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You have heard it said that we need more modern day Abigails.
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Supposedly, we are in short supply of women with the wisdom and courage to stand up to their husbands
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on everything ranging from seed oils to the 19th Amendment to revoice for Nazis.
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But if you think that we really need, in this hour, a more assertive and scheming and ultimately disobedient populace of women in our society,
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There's a case to be made that you've lost the whole book, namely, the Bible.
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The biblical authority of the husband in the home is under attack today, perhaps more than
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If we are going to change the tide, we don't need feminism just repackaged with Bible stories.
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Instead, we need a wholesale embrace of God's design for the home, especially when dealing
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Join us today with special guest, Dr. Stephen Wolfe, as we discuss this topic.
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This is one of the few moments where I wish I had a PhD, which will never happen, just
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doctor um yeah you guys can call me doctor that's like yeah no i have been told reliably from you
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that if you are friends with steven you can call him steven yeah i'd like to think we're friends
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though i mean okay yeah call me steven i've known enough people who have phds who are not
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worthy of it so i'll just take steven and we'll leave it at that that's fair enough okay so you
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guys have seen the outline for our show today uh but i do have a brief announcement before we get
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started. So the reason why Stephen is with us in the flesh is because the two of us just finished
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recording a 10-part series on Christian nationalism. And we're roughly following
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the outline of Stephen's book, The Case for Christian Nationalism, but lots of juicy bonus
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material that's thrown in. And so that series is going to, at first, it's going to be available
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exclusively to our Patreon members. But we've kind of just like landed on a new strategy, okay?
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so here's here's basically the schedule it's pretty simple um you guys are aware many of you
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who follow our show that right now if you are a patreon member at our lowest tier silver tier
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five bucks a month uh you have full access uh without any ads uh to the nine part series with
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pastor andrew isker and myself on the subject of israel and looking at a biblical theological
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covenantal um even getting into uh ethnicity and these kinds of things how should the church view
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Israel today? And also even politically speaking, how should we view Israel? And so that's a nine
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part series that has been making waves and it hasn't even been released to the public. But a
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lot of people have signed up and joined our Patreon and been privy to that entire show.
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Well, Lord willing, the plan is starting in January. So next month, next year, year of our
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Lord 2025, we're going to be doing Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, our live stream that
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right now is only once a week on wednesdays it's going to be three times a week monday wednesday
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and friday at 4 p.m central time and we're going to keep the friday special and release that later
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in the evening maybe like uh 7 p.m central time or 8 p.m central time and and what we're going to do
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is the whole nine part series with isker and i on israel is going to uh slow drip one episode a week
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on fridays in the evening starting the first friday of january to the public no longer behind
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the paywall but uh it's going to be public on x on youtube uh right response website app uh the
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whole nine yards everything podcast platforms you know spotify apple whatever you use um and
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at the exact same time we're going to sync it up when we go public with the series that right now
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is behind the paywall um uh with isker and i on israel that will then be uh the same time that we
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make um stephen wolf's uh series 10 part series with stephen wolf and i available exclusive to
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our Patreon members. And then after Q1, January through March, of publicly bringing out the
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Isker series and privately for Patreon members having the Wolf series, after that, starting
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April, Lord willing, then Wolf and I, that series will be made available to the public. So ultimately
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what you're doing is, number one, you're supporting the ministry that preaches the Word of God. And
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we appreciate your support and generosity. We can't do it without you. But then number two,
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um you're paying for not necessarily exclusive access but you're paying for um early access
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and ad free access so anyway so wolf and i our series will be available to our patreon members
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exclusively starting in january and then lord willing in april uh we'll go ahead and release
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that to the public so that's uh the announcement for today so let's go ahead and hop into our topic
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go ahead those watching please give us a like yes subscribe you know the deal but we say it every
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week just because yep are we live on x nathan did that work out okay so we we're streaming right now
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streaming on x um make sure that you also follow us on youtube subscribe on youtube okay um so let's
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go ahead and without any further ado uh let's play what we want to do is we want to show a tweet we
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We want to show a screenshot of an advertisement from Canon Press.
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And we also want to play a clip that recently surfaced from Doug Wilson, Pastor Doug Wilson in Moscow, with his children, Rachel Jankovic, Becca Merkel, and Nate Wilson.
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So let's start with the clip, and then we're going to sync that up.
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Immediately after that, we'll show the advertisement from Canon, because the two relate to one another.
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And then we'll show a Twitter poll that was run by Pastor Tom Buck.
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And for the record, we love and respect all these guys.
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But then we're going to respectfully show why we don't think it's particularly helpful.
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Seems to be walking with the Lord, seems to be trying to do her duty.
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I've said a number of times over the years, and this would be another occasion to say it again,
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is that in, in a world where some men can go the Nabal route. Yeah. I have wished for more
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Abigails. How, I guess what I'm trying to say is how would you tell a woman to be an Abigail?
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I would say, tell them to say to their husband, honey, wherever you're going, I'm not okay. I'm
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not going there. And if you don't stop going there, I'm setting up a flare. We're talking
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to the elders we're not we're not going to go off silently sadly into the night would you say
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that she should refuse to move like if he's if he is so safe he tries to flee accountability right
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say things they're already leaving he wants to leave the church he wants to move she doesn't
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have cause grounds for divorce in the sense that he's not been unfaithful to her but he wants to
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move them to a place where she knows she'd have no like is that what you mean being abigail say
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I think the Abigail thing, I always think it's the coolest thing that she saved both
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She saved Nabal from getting killed by David, but she saved David from killing Nabal.
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And so she went behind Nabal's back, who was her current husband, but she also stopped
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her future husband from doing something that was going to be wicked.
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And the way she confronted him, like, so she went behind Nabal's back, but she also went
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very respectfully to david but said don't do this thing that you're planning to do yeah you know so
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we need more basically in dire situations with nabals we need abigail's now at the same time
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i'm saying that in a generation where many many wives have never thought of obeying their husbands
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ever right and she shouldn't it seems like they all think to do it when they shouldn't
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in the time in the time when they ought to say no absolutely not well it's embarrassing it's
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actually it's right but it's embarrassing if he says let's eat more homemade meals she might feel
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free to say absolutely not but not when it comes to but so you're saying to send up a flare get
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get elders involved to make sure that it's on the radar don't disappear quietly right so that one of
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the things that abigail did there she went and talked to david and she went and talked to david
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in a way that her husband would absolutely have hated and forbidden yeah and that like get help
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like basically get help now even if your husband doesn't want you to get help you have to get help
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and you would say that and then she went and told her husband what she'd done and you should also
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say though for friends of that woman that they need to be encouraging her straightforwardly to
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do that yeah but it's also incredibly brave both directions because she'd be really brave to go do
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what she knew would infuriate nabal but she's also going to david who's really mad right now
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and he's on the one i think i think and she like throws herself in front to say please don't do
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this you know like but also the guys that are doing this kind of thing are being imbalanced
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it's a scary man who's going this way it takes courage to stand up to a husband at least at his
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keyboard in the dark no for a woman with a fake name for a woman a husband losing his grip on
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reality is a terrifying yeah it's just scary so i have a lot of we can end on that optimistic no
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don't like it any thoughts i've got thoughts but i'll open up to you guys first
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i mean well i'll say that like women are tend to be consensus driven
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right uh men tend to be more truth contesting oh sure but like the more of contesting and more
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of questioning more agonistic and true and so it when you have yeah contrarian uh so this sets up
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this sets up a a a battle between a consensus driven person and a more agonistic questioning
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person and in a time in which you have a society that is going absolutely nuts when there's
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propaganda and a lot of things that are simply plainly false that we are required then to to
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believe like by society what this is setting up is that the consensus driven person can use the
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authority of the church as a third party to then silence the husband with regard to things that
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they should question um yeah so i think that's the that's the at a time like this in which there
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are these social dynamics where you are required to believe certain things that are plainly false
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or at least very questionable you're now you're wielding the consensus driven party to then use
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a third party namely the church to silence them essentially bring them back into the consensus
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yep so it's i think it's apart from whether or not it's good as a principle in certain situations
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In our time now, it sounds to me as if it's the wrong thing to emphasize.
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There can be a way to undercut the husband's authority.
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You could think of the front door, which is to say, no, I won't do that.
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But someone pointed out in the comments, sin according, because the one exception to the husband's authority would be if he commands her to commit an act of sin.
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Or forbids her from committing an act of righteousness.
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But then who defines what is sin, what is righteousness that she's forbidden from?
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So she could straight up defy him and say, no, I'm not doing that.
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Or she could say, well, I actually think this is sin, and the end outcome is the same.
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She's not obedient to her husband, as the Bible says, but she's conveniently cloaked
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I've determined privately, not from any type of church document, not from elders, not from
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spiritual discernment, but privately here, I've decided that to do this or to not do
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My interpretation rules, and I'm going to take that and go to the elders, again, to
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the same outcome being, I disobeyed my husband.
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i'll say this um first in defense of the wilson's who i love um doug is right uh in principle
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the the problem that i have with this particular clip and you know to uh as a as a counter to
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anybody who would say we're taking it out of context it's actually the larger context that
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gives me more concern um and i'm going to provide even further context beyond just the video as a
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whole by showing uh the way it was synced up with a particular advertisement from canon
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in their email blast um because that provides context as well and the context doesn't help
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it hurts in my opinion uh but first to levy a defense um other wilson's particularly doug
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um i i think the principle is thoroughly biblical and right so if we're saying um
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all forms of human authority can err. All forms of human authority can err to the point that
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would be categorically abusive, and therefore tyrannical. And all forms of human authority
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include the male headship and authority of a husband in the home. So there are times where
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I absolutely, as a pastor, would counsel, if I had knowledge of something, and there have been
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a few cases over the course of my ministry where this has happened, where I would say, yeah, the
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elders have to get involved, and not only the elders. Not only do you need to go outside of
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the sphere of the household in your husband, and is it right and good that you've approached the
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elders, but we also need to involve another sphere named the civil magistrate. You need to make a
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phone call to the police, right? So if a husband is beating the children, God forbid, then yeah,
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that wife needs to come to the elders of the church and needs to call the sheriff, you know,
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or whatever. The problem that I have is not the principle. And I did notice, again, in defense
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of the Wilsons, there were some people on X who were the counter, the attack and criticism that
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they were levying was from a place of disagreeing with the principle. I would advise against that
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in this case. Sometimes people present principles that aren't good principles, and so then have at
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it. But I don't think this is one of those instances. I think the principle is a universally
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true biblical principle. Certain authorities can get into the realm of tyranny and categorical
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abuse. And in those cases, under those authorities have the right, and even at times, it's even
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obligatory that they appeal to other authorities for the safety of others and so that righteousness
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might prevail. That's fine. That is totally fine. Here's the problem. It's not the principle.
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The problem is the case study, and particularly not the specificity of the case study, but the lack thereof.
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The fact that the only example that's being offered is a very vague and ambiguous example of, well, my husband is just too far right wing.
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And what I want to say is, what's too far right wing?
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and and from biblical definitions not post-war consensus you know popular opinion sources but
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from a biblical source i need you to put a little bit more meat on those bones and say that if this
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is an abigail moment and and i also disagree with the biblical illustration so i agree with the
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principle i disagree with the uh the scripture that they're using to back it up and i certainly
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disagree with the lack of a clear example of when this is is necessary. And so one, give me an
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example. Give me an example. And too far right wing is is not a good example. That's because
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what's too far right wing? It's too vague. It's too ambiguous. It's not helpful. Because too far
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right wing could literally just be my husband refused to watch the new Bonhoeffer movie because
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And so I'm calling the elders, you know, like, like, so what are we talking about?
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And then, and then lastly, the last thing I'll say is I said, you know, I don't appreciate
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So this is a, this is why this is a descriptive text.
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We read descriptive passages in the old Testament and we can glean certain principles and, and
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then and then translate those into practical applications that are good and godly and pleasing
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to the lord that's that's that's how we read the bible that's one of the ways that we read the
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bible so i'm not saying that you know when we're giving marriage advice that you know the only two
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texts we can appeal to is ephesians 5 and first peter 3 it's fine to use the bible the way they're
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doing it um but if we want to be fair with this particular story um abigail is not uh tattling
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on her husband the reason david is coming with all his men to kill her husband is because he's
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already been informed. So she's not tattling and informing, because in this illustration,
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the way they're using it, David would be representative of the senior pastor and his
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mighty men or whatever, whoever's with him are the elders. So David represents the pastors of
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the church, Nabal represents your far right-wing husband, and Abigail is this wise and courageous
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Christian woman. Well, if we're going to use the passage for what it actually says and apply it
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the way that the passage actually unfolds, then you would have to say, in this case, it's not
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a woman going to the elders, asking for protection from her husband, informing them with something
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that they previously don't know. It's actually, the elders of the church already do know somehow
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through the grapevine, and the elders, she's not trying to stop her husband and his foolishness by
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getting the protection of the elders. She's actually starting, trying to stop the foolishness
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of the elders. In other words, David's coming to kill, so if we want to liken it to the church
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world uh the elders caught wind that the the husband of a particular christian woman is too
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far right wing and they're coming to excommunicate him and the wise abigail is saying pastors oh
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please do not sin by overreacting and exercising the keys of the kids you want to be accurate in
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using the passage that would be the direct application so i actually think the passage
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goes directly against what you're advocating for which makes it just all the more humorous
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is that actually what's going on in that passage?
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Is that the lesson that that passage is telling us?
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yeah yeah now certainly there was a sense where abigail did risk infuriating her husband yes going
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to david right and so in in that sense they're right like there there may have been ramifications
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at home after the fact for her when he found out and so she was in a sense going against him but
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he was being overtly foolish to the point where his life and who knows how many others were on
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the line and it would have left abigail best case scenario if they hadn't accidentally gone too far
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and wiped out the entire family like she would have been left without a husband a provider
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she was really interceding for more than every man a sin issue yeah more than just a foolish sin
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issue on abigail's on on nabel's part she was interceding for her livelihood her life the life
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of all the men in the home who were now going to be claimed because of nabal's foolishness right
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she wasn't a narc she wasn't tattling on her husband's failure she was intervening she was
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seeking to preserve to stop yeah the the potential soon to be failure of she was actually she wasn't
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she wasn't getting her husband in trouble she was saving him from trouble by stopping what would
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have been not not just nabal's foolishness but stopping the foolishness of the elders the elders
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but what you're about to do is even more wicked.
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that's, if we're going to use the text, that seems to be far more obvious from the text than the way
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that the Wilsons are using it. Any thoughts on that? Nope. I was going to say, sorry, that requires
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a degree of courage to go through what Stephen said earlier, where women are more consensus
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driven. That requires a courage that flies in the face of what they're being pressured to do,
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right? That seems to me a more biblical and godly courage that we ought to esteem
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and our women reject the impulse to react purely by consensus do what is right defend your family
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insist on the truth and even defend your leaders from from even greater foolishness than has been
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displayed already right she's not disagreeing with her husband and teaming up with the elders
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she's disagreeing with everybody right including the elders especially you might argue the elders
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if david and his men represent the elders uh so now let's go ahead nathan and show uh on the screen
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the screenshot of the canon ad uh because i think this illustrates my point of uh the principle is
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true but the text used i think actually argues the opposite of the principle um and and the lack of
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an example specificity of an example of when the husband really is too far or off the deep end as
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as uh miss jenkovich said um if if there was any confusion about about what that looks like
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this uh ad from canon made it uh even less clear and more confusing says uh we need more abigail's
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abigail went behind her husband's back to stop her future husband from doing something wicked
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thus saving both men in an afternoon such wisdom and courage are in short supply and here we go
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i think this confuses things from seed oils to essential oils repealing the 19th to revoicing
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the nazis get the wisdom to see the path and the courage to walk in it the reason why i think
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that's unhelpful is um because here we have examples of when a wife should go around her
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husband usurp his authority and appeal to another authority like like ecclesiastical authority of
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the elders or maybe it's calling the police civil authority so um and the only example cited and
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even with the examples one they're silly two um revoiced for nazis i've said it several times but
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under christian nationalism it's with a heavy heart i must declare uh that anybody uses revoiced
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for nazis unironically will be immediately deported and that does include the wilson's
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as much as we love them um it's the madness has to stop so um doug uh is he he's a great writer
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and he he can't resist a turn of phrase and i have gotten many a laugh out of his creative writing
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he's a great writer uh but this one uh as much as i know he loves it he's got to let it go so
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um these are silly examples but not only are they silly examples um but it's also not even
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clear from the canon ad uh whether they're positive or negative examples so so the seed
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oils from essential oils to seed oils so uh so in that my question would be um are these actual
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examples and if so uh which one does the wife call the the church elders for being pro seed oil
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it's a company, it's a printing press publisher,
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and a pastor giving instruction, that's where I would say, as much as you guys want to sell
00:25:54.680
product, I get that. And as much as I appreciate humor, as much as the next guy, but you've teamed
00:26:00.680
it up with a pastoral exhortation. And the pastoral exhortation was already lacking clarity.
00:26:09.560
And your attempt at a humorous advertisement teamed up with that pastoral exhortation
0.99
00:26:15.300
uh just takes away even more clarity and now all all the women who you know who their own husbands
00:26:22.700
turned them on to moscow back in 2020 are now going to be at best confused about when they
0.76
00:26:29.800
should go around their husbands um and at worst um they're going to be invigorated you know that
00:26:37.200
that wife who uh whose husband has been talking to her about head covering um but her pastor
00:26:42.780
isn't a head covering guy and and she's not a head covering gal uh now she might be thinking
00:26:48.320
uh is is this is this an example is this when i call uh the elders and and tell them i'm concerned
00:26:53.700
about my husband because he's telling me that i should wear my interpretation is right so well
00:26:59.420
yeah i mean these guys they they tend they i'd say dougs has done this for a long time which is
00:27:06.420
thriving on ambiguity so you you use vagueness and ambiguity to get people to respond and say
00:27:14.500
well what are the examples is it this or that is it how far how far right wing do you have to go
00:27:18.900
right and then that prolongs the discussion in the attention span and everyone focused that's
00:27:23.900
everyone's talking about this now um and then then there's a clarification but mixing the
00:27:29.100
clarification is a further ambiguity that then furthers the discussion on and on and on
00:27:33.000
which is a good marketing tactic i mean it's fine uh but uh but on something like this which
00:27:40.240
actually tells women which suggests to women that actually you should turn your husbands in for
00:27:45.660
suggesting maybe seed oils or head coverings or something this is actually serious this is
00:27:50.340
actually people's lives like this is their marriage relationship that you are via podcast
00:27:56.820
meddling in directly and not even within your own church but also within all the churches all
00:28:02.840
the people who follow you so it really becomes at the level irresponsible it's one thing if it's
00:28:09.060
about i don't know what the topic would be i don't know like theonomy or something like that you want
00:28:13.580
to do that and it drives a discussion but when you're actually dealing with real people in their
00:28:18.280
lives in the most intimate relationship which is marriage you don't use marketing ambiguity
00:28:25.400
because it's it's irresponsible and it can actually harm people right um yeah and so yeah i just fear
00:28:32.040
that a women i don't know if how many women watch those shows but then they'll find out yeah then
00:28:38.460
they'll find out that their their man that their husband is following guys who don't like seed oils
0.99
00:28:43.740
or they want a more natural diet or they want food that's that's from scratch and they don't
00:28:49.000
want the package stuff that contains the list of new ingredients you can't even pronounce and they
00:28:54.680
start thinking maybe it'd be better for us to start eating whole foods or something like that
00:28:59.380
you know right and all of a sudden oh he's a right winger like he's he's an anti-seed oil guy
00:29:04.480
and then it creates tension between the family because the the wife is now empowered in order
00:29:10.360
to do that and then you get the third party involved namely the pastor who then you know
00:29:14.120
so i i just think it's it's really uh it's irresponsible um to do to use ambiguity in this
00:29:22.920
way but in other cases fine you know they've done they've done that with me i guess but in this case
00:29:28.580
i don't agree but not ambiguity is fine and humor is certainly fine in terms of phrases are are fine
00:29:34.500
but they're not they're not particularly helpful in the realm of pastoral advice especially towards
00:29:42.720
something as intimate and fundamental as marriage yeah yeah especially again especially since it's
00:29:48.420
broadcast this is national international if it's your church then after the church someone can come
00:29:54.560
up and say, well, what do you mean is too far right? And then you can have that discussion.
00:29:59.000
But to do it in something where eventually you get the answer after the third or fourth blog post,
00:30:04.060
when someone stopped listening after the first, then it's just, it's not good for,
00:30:10.040
yeah, it's not good. It's not at all unthinkable that there will be real marriages. Like we know
00:30:14.720
these guys and we talk to them, their pastor is not down with any of this. So they're reading and
00:30:18.560
they're getting into stuff and coming to different conclusions. There are real marriages where the
00:30:22.360
wife is going to catch wind of this. They're going to hear him mention something and they're going to
0.87
00:30:25.740
go to the pastor and the pastor is going to come and take him to the woodshed and rhetoric and talk
00:30:30.120
like this is exactly what's going to create that situation. And in extreme ones, the pastor could
00:30:34.820
say, get the kids. You're not safe. He's talking about this. He's one of those scary guys we've
00:30:38.980
heard about on the internet. Like that's actual real people, marriages with children that really
00:30:43.700
could have a wedge driven between them. You need to go stay at the in-laws and that's terrible to
00:30:48.480
do. If it's for something good and the man is an actual evil, wicked person, of course, but over
00:30:53.500
something as silly as all of these examples mentioned, that's awful. Yeah, the question
00:30:58.540
then is, oh, where'd you get that idea about seed oils? Oh, I got it from this guy named
00:31:02.260
Raw Egg Nationalist on Twitter. And the pastor's like, oh, I've never heard of that thing. I've
00:31:06.540
never even heard of Twitter. And then he goes on there and doesn't understand anything of what's
00:31:09.780
going on. And he finds out from a blog, you know, some Google search that Ren is actually a Nazi.
00:31:16.740
And wait, you're actually following Nazis on Twitter?
00:31:23.920
Most of your pastors don't understand the dynamics of the internet, particularly X or Twitter.
00:31:29.740
And so the moment that question arises, I wonder if this guy's down in nefarious stuff,
00:31:34.480
they're not going to understand the world they're jumping into.
00:31:48.880
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and give some tangible, you know, practical advice here.
00:35:03.480
saying here are some examples that we think are unhelpful.
00:35:06.680
And then we want to try to give some positive examples
00:35:11.040
But we love the Wilsons and we love Pastor Tom Buck.
00:35:14.960
And because we love them, we thought, you know what?
00:35:18.660
We should let Wilson and Buck share blame together.
00:35:22.800
You know, that's a very charitable thing of us to do.
00:35:29.840
It says, if a husband tells his wife that he wants her to wear a red dress every day,
00:35:47.180
A total of over 7,000 votes in terms of views on this tweet, 388.600,000.
00:35:55.240
So almost 400,000 views, almost half a million.
00:36:00.000
And I would just say that, to quote Tim Keller here, it's not what you say.
00:36:07.860
And what the language does in this particular case is one of the things that it does,
00:36:17.180
But I think what it does, regardless of his intentions, is it just provides one more little chipping away at biblical patriarchy and male headship in the home by basically trying to attack the general principle of the husband actually has authority over the wife.
00:36:41.160
I mean, the Bible literally says, wives, submit to your husbands in everything.
0.94
00:36:57.780
whether it be in the household with your husband,
00:37:03.860
but obligated, morally obligated to resist that authority
00:37:07.440
if the authority is commanding that which God forbids
00:37:14.080
So it is a real principle, and it does have real application.
00:37:18.520
The problem, though, is does God forbid wearing red dresses?
00:37:21.700
Does God forbid even wearing red dresses every day?
00:37:31.500
If you're simply making the case that there are times in various spheres of life where you have to resist human authority because tyranny is a real category, and fine, okay, I get it.
00:37:42.640
Like we did a lot of talks like that during COVID.
00:37:52.480
They're not just doing something that's uncomfortable
00:37:54.740
or inconvenient or goes against your preference,
00:37:58.200
but they're actually forbidding something that God commands
00:38:03.540
And the former forbidding that which God commands,
00:38:06.500
for instance, would be, you know, during COVID,
00:38:10.820
and and so that was a problem and so uh the doctrine of the lesser magistrate and civil
00:38:15.760
disobedience and resistance was was something that really needed to be talked about but now
00:38:20.360
it's being talked about in the category of the home and it would be one thing if we had
00:38:24.240
an epidemic of toxic patriarchy right and i'm not saying there are no example i'm not saying there's
00:38:29.940
there's no husband on planet earth who hasn't gone too far i'm not saying that but i think
00:38:35.060
what's so important is uh the headline must be the headline the footnote must be the footnote
00:38:40.740
and often what we do in evangelicalism is we make the footnote the headline and the headline the
00:38:45.540
footnote we major on the minor and we minor on the major and and what what sometimes uh is
00:38:51.420
accomplished by trying to provide exceptions to the rule so the rule is wives submit to your
00:38:57.780
husbands and everything um there may be exceptions but by by pressing the exception a lot of times
00:39:04.460
what it ends up doing is it carves out excuses to uh to actually obey the norm and in this
00:39:11.180
particular example with tom buck the exception he provides i actually think from a biblical
00:39:15.800
standpoint is not a good exception if if the example was um is uh do you have to obey your
00:39:21.440
husband if he asks you every day not to pray or every day um to beat the children or every like
00:39:29.460
but in this case or if he was dressed to wear something that is objectively immodest yeah
00:39:33.480
exactly to um to wear um spandex in public you know every single day exactly but this is um
00:39:39.980
this is literally it's it's just not it's there's there's no biblical law against red dresses
00:39:45.120
so it's strictly preference and and and what this does this little you know experiment uh poll on
00:39:53.800
on x is it just gets people thinking and according to the results 59.5 percent of people if over 7,000
00:40:00.880
people thinking there are times outside of biblical clear commands simply in the realm
00:40:06.400
of preference where a woman can say to her husband despite his authority take a hike
00:40:11.140
yeah i'm not a fan okay there's two separate issues here there's authority and there's prudence
00:40:17.120
so the question does the husband have the authority to command such a thing that's not
00:40:22.560
necessarily saying is it prudent for a man to require that of his wife because the wives that's
00:40:28.000
a different question even you know women of both genders well why would he ever do that maybe it's
00:40:33.020
not suitable for the climate blah blah blah we're not asking is it prudent should it be done yeah we
00:40:38.280
live in the north pole but mrs claus every single day that's true you know we're in la there's gangs
00:40:44.580
red we're not talking about the prudence of it we're talking about does a husband have that
00:40:48.220
authority to command that to which the bible like if it doesn't actually mean that if it doesn't
00:40:53.480
literally practically on a tuesday and a wednesday and a sunday in the home to his wife mean he can
00:40:59.060
say do this and it's not sin and she does it what does it actually mean what is it actually good for
00:41:03.980
as you like to say nothing if you truly won't validate yes that authority is actually legitimate
00:41:09.480
it has to be obeyed it's god ordained practically it looks like this if you won't do that then take
00:41:15.260
the verse that says that grab a sharpie and scribble that out in your bible because you have
00:41:18.920
no intention of actually obeying it when push comes to shove when the rubber meets the road
00:41:23.140
You're right. The phrasing of the question is key. And the way you phrased it is helpful,
00:41:27.680
but technically that wasn't even the way that Tom, Pastor Buck phrased it. He didn't say,
00:41:32.540
does the husband have the authority? The way he phrased it is, should the wife obey or should
0.77
00:41:36.860
the wife submit to his authority? So if it was, is it wise for a husband to give this command,
0.83
00:41:43.140
to command his wife to wear red dress every day? Then I would probably say no. Or is it prudent?
00:41:53.580
But that's not the question that was asked.
0.56
00:41:55.040
The question that was asked is, should a wife obey the command?
0.85
00:41:59.540
So in this case, we're saying the command, prudent or not, has already been issued.
0.89
00:42:05.320
And now we're debating, should a wife submit?
0.99
00:42:14.520
Yeah, I just say that whenever you talk about authority, especially when you're talking about disobeying some sort of order of that authority, is the subordinate person should, there should be a, you should reemphasize the idea of a type of deference.
00:42:32.400
So someone's, I think this is true for civil authority, it's true for authority in the family.
00:42:40.800
The first impulse should be deference to them as the head of that, the state or the head of the family.
00:42:50.420
And so that should always be emphasized when you're talking about some kind of disobedience, which I didn't see any of them do.
00:43:00.580
The other thing is that, what was I going to say?
00:43:16.080
and something I learned from Stephen's book is the command to honor
00:43:20.960
and submit to the civil magistrate is quite high biblically.
00:43:31.580
Often we pray something like, Lord, help us to obey faithfully
00:43:34.480
in every area that we can so that if it comes that we have to disobey,
00:43:39.160
it will be obvious that it's because of the principle that we obey god rather than men
00:43:43.180
than just that we're disgruntled conservatives who are you know angry at the government right
00:43:47.500
yeah yeah so what i was going to say is whenever like if you're if you're reading like complex
00:43:52.760
like ethics or anything that that involves like you go to the extreme cases to narrow down the
00:43:59.880
principle like so that it makes sense that you'd go to a case where it's kind of unclear on the
00:44:04.600
surface, prima facie, you're unsure. And then that forces a guy then to rethink his principles. It's
00:44:10.580
like, you know, the Kantian ethics, you never lie. Well, therefore you don't, you know, the Jews in
1.00
00:44:14.340
the basement or whatever, you can't lie to the Nazi. Like that's a classic example of trying to
0.91
00:44:18.960
go to an extreme case that would seem to violate intuition about the principle. But if you do it
00:44:24.440
on Twitter, that's not exactly the environment in which you are trying to narrow down your
00:44:29.560
principle. It's not the Socratic method there. Yeah, right. And it's also a very high context
00:44:33.760
environment and so this didn't come out of nowhere like you have to understand each tweet usually in
00:44:38.140
context of all these other tweets and so i think i think joel you said it i think what the effect
00:44:42.780
of this does like it is true that what it does not only what it says like that's true because
00:44:47.080
of twitter's this high context environment what it does is it actually chips away at someone's
00:44:52.260
principle now they start have to question the idea of authority um and it actually undermines
00:44:58.060
the authority in effect by doing this sort of uh you know extreme case type type work um and so
00:45:05.500
in that way it's it's just not good uh unless you know you should provide like if you know you should
00:45:11.300
give more than that it's it's not not good so it's so like the the sort of person who would
0.91
00:45:15.820
who would do this would be like a feminist who if you know if that feminist feminist is smart would
1.00
00:45:22.060
say i'm going to give this extreme case knowing that it's twitter in order to undermine male
1.00
00:45:28.940
headship in the family like that would make sense but someone doing it like tom buck who affirms you
00:45:34.380
know whatever probably complementarianism uh it's either he doesn't know what he's doing um or he
00:45:40.260
does know what he's doing and he's actually undermining the uh the principle in either case
00:45:44.760
i fear the authority i'll give charity and assume the former but i fear the latter michael were you
00:45:50.980
going to say something or west i've got something else but go ahead i was going to say in the
00:45:54.400
military the if you take a squad so you have a squad leader that's over several fire teams
00:45:59.080
the line between a functional and dysfunctional squad wouldn't necessarily be the quality of the
00:46:03.880
squad leader but it would be the teams the how well they obey him if you had fire teams that
00:46:08.840
would not obey the squad leader or they would quibble and argue and refuse to defer to him in
00:46:13.820
all except extreme cases you would have a team that could not do anything now if you take a
00:46:17.920
squad leader. Maybe he is not the perfect squad leader. He gets it right 75% of the time, 25% of
00:46:23.000
the time he's off, but he has a team that will obey him that he can count on. You've gone from
00:46:27.740
dysfunctional, can't do anything, can't maneuver, can't move, can't suppress fire to a team. You
00:46:32.560
can work with that. But if you take the husband and then you put in his home disharmony, you inject
00:46:37.980
and say, wife, you should be thinking, do I obey this or not? You've gone from functional and we
00:46:42.060
could work on this. Hey, that wasn't the most prudent advice that you gave her to a home that
00:46:46.280
has no harmony, that has no function, where his words and his edicts constantly disobeyed. So
00:46:51.720
military is not a perfect corollary to the family, but it is one where the authority structure is
00:46:56.340
absolutely laid bare. I mean, it's numbers, it's ranks. This is who says who, this is who needs
00:47:00.920
to be obeyed. And if it didn't function like that, if the lower ranks just disobeyed, I mean,
00:47:06.580
they would literally lose their job. They would get discharged. That's how important that is.
00:47:10.780
So take it to the home that leader has to be obeyed, except in those extreme cases,
00:47:15.940
which literally in a marriage there are people in their whole marriage the husband will never
00:47:19.580
truly order the wife to sin like we're literally talking about in a whole town maybe five christian
00:47:25.240
husbands in a year truly given order that's actually sin right yeah on that too i guess
00:47:32.100
it's it's on topic maybe not directly to that tweet but it is a good point within the military
00:47:36.620
structure that authority when you have when you have subordinates you usually the way you exercise
00:47:42.960
that authority is to give leeway to the like if you have a team leader you know you have two team
00:47:47.720
leaders in a fire in a rifle infantry squad and your orders would be broad enough such that they
1.00
00:47:53.780
can make their own decisions autonomously and so i think just as a as as husbands women have their
1.00
00:47:59.820
their their place in the home and in that sphere and so instead of sometimes there's the direct
0.99
00:48:05.820
like you must do this but there's also that that broad command of this is the end state
00:48:11.880
these are some of the things i need to have done but now now go and you know do it right so it just
00:48:16.760
doesn't yeah um so probably probably a better you know instead of saying wear the red dresses or
00:48:23.700
only what it was something like you know like the the wear the dresses and then they get to choose
00:48:29.020
she's called in scripture the despot the ruler of the home like that actually means something
00:48:32.820
under the headship of the husband but still with authority it's like owner and manager
00:48:37.040
michael was there anything that you wanted to say right okay so one of the things that i
00:48:40.940
previously said you know i immediately responded to it on x um and for whatever reason i see people
00:48:46.100
do videos that are like 10 minutes long all the time and i suck with technology and i can't figure
00:48:51.000
it out um so x only lets me do two minute and 20 second videos if i just record one on my phone and
00:48:56.760
and upload it uh but you know what in god's providence it's probably a really good discipline
00:49:01.620
and so i i did two videos one responding to the abigail uh moscow uh situation and one responding
00:49:07.360
to the red dress fiasco. And on the red dress one, I had to boil it down to two minutes and
00:49:13.000
20 seconds. We'll see if I can do it today. But I said something along these lines. I said,
00:49:16.600
one of the aspects of authority, the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church and
00:49:22.160
gave himself up for him. So a sacrificial love, protection, and provision. And one example,
00:49:27.020
even though it's outside of the household, this would be a civil ruler, but one example of a
00:49:31.080
tyrannical authority, I think of Pharaoh, who had a demand but did not supply the resources for the
00:49:38.120
demand. So Jesus, you know, he loves the bride, but he also is the head of the church, which is
00:49:43.060
his body, and he gives her commands. But the beauty of Jesus is he also provides all the necessary
00:49:48.280
resources, the means for obedience. Jesus doesn't command us to do things without being able to
00:49:54.080
obey. Jesus is the opposite of a tyrant, such as Pharaoh would be a good biblical example. So he
00:50:01.760
gives a command, but decides no longer to provide the resources, the means for obeying the command.
00:50:07.480
The quintessential example would be when Pharaoh says, I demand bricks, but without straw. Well,
00:50:13.340
Jesus doesn't do that. He makes demands on his bride, but he lavishly provides for her out of
00:50:19.260
his own richness in her sanctification, with virtue, with character, with physical provision,
00:50:25.560
just as he feeds the birds of the air and clothes, the lilies of the field, all these ways,
00:50:29.600
Jesus makes demands on his bride, but he provides the resources for her to obey. Well, good husband,
00:50:35.780
if we are called in Ephesians 5 to follow the example of Christ that he sets, you know, the
00:50:40.240
example for us, back to the red dress example, what if a husband, right, because the way that
00:50:47.260
questions being posed is basically, if you answer no, you're saying there's never a scenario.
00:50:51.940
It's never, she should never obey. And I'm thinking, wait a second, hold up. Aside from
00:50:56.640
just simply the biblical principle of, you know, wives submit to your husbands and everything,
00:51:00.900
let's just get a little bit hypothetical, just for fun, just for a moment. What if a husband
00:51:06.160
says to his bride, sweetheart, from the day I met you, you have always looked gorgeous and red.
00:51:12.860
the way that it accents your lips um it's just it's beautiful and and you know the first time
00:51:19.280
that i met you actually wearing a red dress and it brings back sentiment and memory and fondness
00:51:23.580
and um and we also have three little girls in the house and there's something about dresses even if
00:51:29.220
they're not red red's just my preference i love it it just it makes me fall in love with you all
00:51:33.380
over again but dresses regardless of the color um that they display modesty but a modesty that's
00:51:40.960
not frumpy a modesty that still also portrays beauty femininity um elegance and we've got these
00:51:46.980
young impressionable daughters and everywhere they go they see women with you know denim jeans
00:51:51.260
painted on you know and spandex and yoga pants painted on uh women you know wearing a three-piece
0.86
00:51:57.420
pantsuits you know um it's either immodest or it's masculine there's so few examples our girls
0.91
00:52:04.880
are bombarded by example after example after example of women in the culture, and sadly even
00:52:11.780
in the church often, where it's not modesty, it's not femininity, it's not elegance, it's not beauty,
00:52:18.140
and you, as a chief feminine example in our home as a mother, I just think for a season,
00:52:24.440
it would be so wonderful for me, for the intimacy of our marriage, for my own personal preference,
00:52:30.820
and the way that I love you and find you to be so beautiful
00:52:33.020
and as a godly example of femininity and beauty and elegance
00:52:38.060
would you be willing to wear a red dress every day
00:52:43.380
And here's, you know, not bricks with no straw,
00:52:56.260
They need to be dresses and they need to be red.
00:52:58.100
but I want you to go and buy yourself 21 new red dresses of your choice
00:53:05.860
and then put them on a three-week rotation for the next three months.
00:53:12.820
And I would say, Pastor Tom Buck, with all due respect, no.
1.00
00:53:17.820
So get your stupid question out of my Twitter thread.
0.99
00:53:21.540
I don't think it's helpful for the body of Christ.
1.00
00:53:25.080
Okay, let's go to our last commercial break of the day.
00:53:27.240
we'll come back say a few more words and we'll land the plane take some questions if you have
00:53:31.280
yeah we'll take questions give us some questions all right that's it guys i tried to warn you
00:53:35.700
the time has finally arrived our early bird pricing is gone but don't despair we've gone
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above and beyond to make this conference affordable to all so even now it's only 170 bucks for an
00:53:48.420
adult it's cheap for teenagers and free for kids what am i talking about well i'm talking about
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three full days, jam-packed with eight main sessions,
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three panels, and an extraordinarily based lineup of speakers.
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Dan Burkholder, Ben Garrett, Dusty Devers, the Christian Prince himself, and yours truly,
00:54:27.660
Joel Webber. Sign up today. Don't miss this conference. And I'll give you a little bit
00:54:32.440
of a secret here. There's a couple more potential speakers in the wings. Haven't completely
00:54:38.340
confirmed yet, so I cannot disclose, but I'll say this. If it happens, it's going to blow your mind.
00:54:44.060
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in the word all right we're back this is what we want to do we want to take uh questions from
00:56:04.560
the chat so uh if you write something in the chat um and you put a question mark at the end
00:56:10.520
then uh then nathan's going to go ahead and uh separate those and put them in a separate column
00:56:19.600
And as you're formulating your question real quick,
00:56:21.860
one more time, I wanna reiterate as an announcement,
00:56:27.780
So patreon.com forward slash Right Response Ministries,
00:56:31.000
patreon.com forward slash Right Response Ministries.
00:56:39.220
with Andrew Isker and myself on Israel and the Jews
00:56:43.760
and how christians should be thinking about these things uh so that's ad free all nine episodes
00:56:48.340
available right now um a lot of people we i we got like a few i think a couple thousand new
00:56:55.260
patreon members and a lot of people have been talking about it and said it's blessed them
00:56:58.560
i've got lots of emails um people saying like one it opened my eyes it red-pilled me and then
00:57:04.000
other people on the other side of the aisle saying it it kind of actually brought me back from being
00:57:07.820
on the edge to a more reasonable uh position that's biblically rooted and doesn't go too far
00:57:12.540
so check that out patreon.com forward slash right response ministries if you sign up today for even
00:57:19.340
just the lowest tier five bucks a month the silver tier you'll be able to start watching right now
00:57:24.060
the season on israel with me and pastor isker and then you'll also be ready to go because it's not
00:57:30.060
that long from now in just four short weeks yeah we're going to start dropping weekly behind
00:57:35.820
exclusively for our patreon members the 10 part series with me and dr steven wolf and so you'll
00:57:42.420
get full access to the nine-part series with Isker now. You'll be ready to go four weeks from now
00:57:48.140
when we start the series with Stephen Wolf, and that's going to be really great. And then the
00:57:53.160
last thing I want to say is our little advertisement for the conference actually reminded me to go
00:57:59.160
ahead and mention this. We have said, hey, we've got a mystery speaker, Pastor Jeff Durbin, who we
00:58:03.720
love. He dropped, and he never even gave a reason. No, he did give a reason. The reason is sitting
00:58:08.940
two feet to my left um he said he didn't want to do it uh my yes uh four feet to my left michael
00:58:15.380
no um so so uh so anyway so so pastor uh jeff durbin who who we love he's he's not going to
00:58:21.940
come to the conference that's a shame i wish he would come and i wish you know we could hash it
00:58:25.480
out and whatever uh but uh steven is going to be doing a debate with um with uh david reese pastor
00:58:32.480
david reese i think that's going to be awesome and it's going to be a formal debate not just
00:58:35.700
informal i'm probably even not going to moderate i was talking it's on red dresses right it's on
00:58:40.500
red no it's going to be on theonomy versus natural law the way we're going to frame it is we're going
00:58:44.960
to um you know i i teased uh steven about this yesterday i said this is how i'm going to frame
00:58:49.220
it i'm going to put uh david on the defensive um he's going to be for you're going to be against
00:58:53.380
and it's going to be um david defending um the sufficiency of scripture and steven wolf attacking
00:58:58.580
so we're not going to do it we're not going to the bible is enough and steven saying no it's not
00:59:03.060
um no we're not going to do that we're going to frame it instead we're going to frame it um
00:59:06.480
steven on the defensive uh for being a defensive natural law something like that yeah and uh and
00:59:12.760
then david being on the against and uh i talked to nathan yesterday uh you don't even know this
00:59:17.660
but you're about to find out live um i'm probably going to have you moderate okay um so that i won't
00:59:25.280
uh screw it up because i because if i moderate the debate i might just go ahead and uh and join
00:59:31.800
the debate and i don't i don't want to which would actually be kind of funny because i'd find myself
00:59:35.620
probably on both sides um so i love it but yeah people would love it but no it's not fair to
00:59:40.340
steve it's not fair to david um so we don't want to do uh informal um uh discussion where we
00:59:46.220
disagree we actually want to do a formal debate not because we want to be hostile it'll be
00:59:49.500
charitable um but because we want it to be clear and by having a lot of times and all that kind
00:59:54.900
of stuff then steven will get to say everything he needs to stay david will get to say everything
00:59:58.220
he needs to say and um and so that's going to happen uh but we uh all that back to jeff durbin
01:00:02.960
um jeff durbin went ahead and dropped the conference blessings on on apology no hard
01:00:07.220
feelings um but we have been announcing for a few weeks now that we're going to have a mystery guest
01:00:11.920
who is it going to be and um and uh the announcement the surprise is here's the big uh uh unveiling
01:00:18.240
uh it's me twice no no no it's not um no uh so i can't tell you who it is but um but we actually
01:00:26.040
have settled on someone yep and it's actually i think it's gonna blow your mind it's actually um
01:00:31.360
someone who's uh very well known and um and and who i i like and has some great stuff to say
01:00:37.680
and uh we've you know been forming a little bit of a friendship offline uh very recently and he
01:00:43.700
just told me today uh that he's willing to come but i want to wait and get a contract signed um
01:00:50.180
just in case before announcing and then having to say two weeks later and another guy dropped
01:00:55.020
our conference so um we will be unveiling uh but but we have made a decision and we'll be unveiling
01:01:00.980
and lord willing the next couple weeks and i think all of you guys will be uh not only um happy but
01:01:06.220
i think some of you will be um let's just say pleasantly surprised i think you'll be like whoa
01:01:11.900
that's awesome so we're very excited about that go to um right response conference so sign up for
01:01:17.920
the patreon patreon.com forward slash right response ministries isker now wolf coming in a
01:01:23.140
month and then also register for the conference do uh instead of right response ministries it's
01:01:28.440
right response conference.com right response conference.com again that's going to be a full
01:01:34.200
day thursday friday and saturday 2025 um april 3rd through 5th so april 3rd through 5th uh 2025
01:01:42.960
thursday friday and saturday we've got john harris we've got andrew isker we've got uh who do we have
01:01:48.160
orin mcintyre steve days uh david reese steven wolf you guys me and uh brian silvey and eric
01:01:56.220
con and all the ogden boys and uh and a mystery guest that we've decided we'll unveil soon super
01:02:00.900
excited about that uh last thing nate do we have any kind of uh i'm feeling you know it's christmas
01:02:06.300
i'm feeling uh i'm feeling uh generous um do we have any kind of promo code that i can give to
01:02:12.380
our listeners that they can use to get a discount all right give nathan one second
01:02:19.240
dun dun dun dun dun dun dun he's coming up with a promo right now uh how much percent off what
01:02:26.800
do we want to make it 20 percent sure 20 off man you guys don't know how excited special deal
01:02:36.500
only for you um we probably will limit though in time i think just for the next 24 hours
01:02:43.320
so if people are watching the video later uh tough uh you should be neglecting your children
01:02:48.360
and watching when i live straight at the dinner table 5 p.m okay so it's going to be all caps
01:02:55.960
and the word is natural law no red red dresses all one word all caps red dresses
01:03:05.940
one word all caps red dresses for 20 off and uh just for the next 24 hours we'll take down the
01:03:12.480
promo code it'll be over uh by tomorrow night uh but for the rest of the day and uh during the
01:03:17.620
daytime tomorrow go to right response conference.com in the promo code slot uh type in red
01:03:23.640
dresses as one word all caps get 20 off okay questions what do we got sorry not questions
01:03:28.800
we have two super chats that we should at least oh yeah yeah let's give them a shout out what are
01:03:32.580
i i only see that we have two nate uh find them real quick for us what do we got uh two dollars
01:03:39.180
and five dollars no sorry guys got to be more money than that and i'm just um uh so uh super
01:03:44.320
chat uh the first one is from uh lion of the north 96 said excited for steven's friday special
01:03:51.700
season me too uh if he ever starts a patreon or the like he needs uh to call joining uh the wolf
01:04:00.520
pack that's great or lone wolf i love it that would work yep that's good no it needs to be
01:04:05.520
wolf pack you're right lion lion of the north 96 that's my family though i guess i could have an
01:04:10.420
extended family everyone's your family if there's anything that i've learned uh natural family
01:04:17.180
doesn't mean anything that's right um the the random anon on twitter is just as close to you
01:04:22.160
as your own wife and children as long as they profess christ um and then the other super chat
01:04:26.500
is Michael. Michael says, when did, oh, no, I'm not going to read it. I'm sorry, Michael. I love
01:04:32.780
you. I love you. And I understand the sentiment. I understand the concern. Michael, I'm sure you're
01:04:37.820
listening. I don't think it's that far. I don't think that's fair. But I think you are right in
01:04:43.540
a general sense that it does, it's unnecessary. And it does feel like a little bit of a retraction,
01:05:27.520
Thoughts on egalitarian streak in contexts where it's not quite the same sign of liberalism like in the mainline churches.
01:05:34.800
AG, I think standing for Assemblies of God, for instance, is otherwise solid socially like the mainstreams aren't or the mainlines aren't.
01:05:42.380
So mainline churches that would be socially and culturally liberal, transgenderism, LGBTQ.
01:05:47.340
you'd have assemblies of god and as i understand it they would ordain pastors but pretty much
01:05:52.060
women as pastors yeah but it pretty much stops there so none of the gender nonsense nazarene
01:05:57.400
would be similar nazarene like that so where does kind of egalitarianism fit in there when
0.73
01:06:01.500
it doesn't necessarily accompany liberalism is gender egalitarianism yeah yeah
01:06:06.920
i i'd say i i mean i i don't know much about these ag um but i i would say that the um
01:06:16.840
just think charismatics yeah but i would just say like broadly yeah i mean you guys can talk
01:06:22.300
about that but i just say broadly speaking the a lot of the a lot of people learned from the main
01:06:26.840
line that they once they went like going theologically liberal coincided with them
01:06:32.000
going politically liberal whereas i think a lot of conservative people nowadays realize and we
01:06:37.600
saw this over the last 10-15 years which is that you can maintain your theological orthodoxy and
01:06:43.040
soteriology doctrine of god you know ecclesiology and i'd have and and all that you can you can
01:06:48.680
maintain the confession while your your politics actually be is just is liberal right right so um
01:06:55.460
that and you see that that's like classic um i'd say it's like tim keller that would be true for
01:07:00.720
gospel coalition russell moore all those guys so you can check off all the boxes theologically but
01:07:07.360
put it politically you're you're sliding to the left you can even do it as i said the other week
01:07:11.460
as a theonomist, Joel McDermott would be an example.
01:07:20.840
Question, I'm coming back from a deployment overseas
01:07:32.720
of Christian boroughs that we've never heard of
01:07:39.260
sometimes got the guys with podcasts including myself um might might actually be failing to be
01:07:44.720
faithful in certain arenas um however it is difficult i think to find a christian borough
01:07:51.740
um because here's the thing it takes time it's it's like you can't just visit a church on sunday
01:07:57.660
and know everything that's going on and find out about you know whether or not they have a
01:08:01.160
classical school and what that looks like and um and find out you know whether or not the wives are
01:08:05.580
good at making sourdough you know and and find out you know all all the things that come with
01:08:09.380
christian burroughs you know and um you know how active they are in politics and uh it takes time
01:08:14.020
and so one of the things that is helpful with the guys who are podcasting and it's not to give them
01:08:17.420
preference um but but it's just to say for the for the sake of uh thoroughness of of knowledge and
01:08:24.800
and being able to vet uh beforehand preemptively um yeah if a guy has has a podcast and and you
01:08:32.140
could do some of this with even uh just sermons uh even if they don't have a podcast but listening
01:08:35.860
to their sermons online that that's what i i feel like that's the only thing i can really recommend
01:08:39.700
is go and visit in person spend a weekend um somewhere but obviously you can't do that you
01:08:45.620
know you can't do 20 trips you probably don't have the time or or the funds for that and a weekend
01:08:50.660
uh you can figure out some things but there's still a lot that you can't figure out in a weekend
01:08:54.100
so what you're gonna have to do is you're gonna have to listen and um and and so you know so
01:08:59.620
finding guys and and listening to their sermons or if they have a podcast listening to their
01:09:04.060
podcast and you can you know digest you know 20 episodes of something over the course of a couple
01:09:09.000
weeks and then you have a really thorough idea of uh what they're all about beyond just um their
01:09:15.000
church polity or their you know statement of faith but in terms of uh what what is the ethos
01:09:19.880
what's the culture what's what's the vision what what's uh what's their their goals and their
01:09:23.980
ambition um and and so anyways um this isn't to say there aren't faithful guys that i don't know
01:09:29.880
about but the guys that i do know about that i would vouch for is um ogden is fantastic um so
01:09:35.260
if you can't move to ogden um it's beautiful it's pretty uh four seasons all four seasons uh it's
01:09:42.980
uh utah is generally conservative as a state you know um chalk that up to uh the mormons god bless
01:09:49.420
awesome um i will say in over the summer in ogden i saw more pride flags outside of homes that's
01:09:54.860
true it was surprisingly bad well so there's the dynamic it's mormon land but it's also mountains
01:10:01.020
and every pretty place right it's an undetreable law every geographically pretty place with nice
01:10:06.360
weather uh must be uh sodomite friendly so what's the yeah what's the name of the organization or
01:10:12.600
network that john harris talks about occasionally no no no he's got like a church finding network
01:10:18.800
work i forget i don't know that would be a great resource too bad we don't know what it is but
01:10:22.640
yeah uh so ogden is a great one i would also say um obviously i mean you can you know the amref guys
01:10:28.620
um and and some of their projects rich runner yeah rich runner projects in tennessee yeah check
01:10:34.260
that out because you've got uh you're gonna have a like not just one pastor but you're gonna have
01:10:38.460
like a right what we call an all-star cap you know like you're gonna have cj angle and andrew
01:10:43.700
risk i mean it's going to be josh abattoi well i was so i i don't know he says deployment if he's
01:10:49.140
active duty he's not moving anywhere he has to go wherever they they send him or whatever i thought
01:10:53.300
he was saying he was about to get out yeah hard reset like reset would mean you you're redeployed
01:10:58.400
you come back and you reset so i don't know if he means national guard or because in that case he
01:11:02.860
could move i i would just say i don't know the situation but um like we talked about this one
01:11:08.580
of the videos is find a group of guys locally that you can get together twice a month or once
01:11:14.220
a month at a cigar lounge or at a bar or whatever. I do it twice a month and we read through or we
01:11:21.140
talk about an American Reformer article. We're like-minded guys. So if you can't find an actual
01:11:26.260
borough itself to move to like Ogden and these other places or Ridge Runner places,
01:11:31.660
somehow find that local group of guys who are like-minded where you can get together and
01:11:36.280
and have a little mini you know burrow for two hours uh and that i think that that that'd be
01:11:41.820
good for someone do it wisely because you're in the military uh but uh but anyway if that's the
01:11:47.940
case you're active duty then didn't do that at whatever post you're at yeah that's good truth
01:11:51.560
script church finder yeah uh nathan just uh showed that somebody in the chat put it thank you so if
01:11:57.000
you want harris's a list of vetted churches um truth script church finder there's two super
01:12:03.880
chats maybe we get to just in case we don't get through the whole list this first one from
01:12:08.540
jeff halfley what were some great moments in the american history where the conservative
01:12:13.940
slash reform side won or lost a key battle example of jay gresham machin and the opc
01:12:19.260
well lost a key battle would be the uh i forget the name but they're uh people like charles hodge
01:12:29.260
and his son. Ahaj? Yeah, Ahaj. They were a part of a movement around the time of Lincoln in the
01:12:36.340
1850s and 60s. I don't know the exact time frame. This would be a loss. So, it was actually among
01:12:41.560
the Reformed who wanted to revise the preamble of the Constitution to recognize Christ. And
01:12:48.360
apparently, Lincoln was actually open to it, but then he was killed. So, that was a loss. But that
01:12:54.380
was actually led by reformed ministers through in a reformed organization so um you know maybe
01:13:00.720
there's a history of trying to make america a christian nation well no there wasn't there was
01:13:04.420
a history well yeah there was a history of saying we are a christian nation why is it not in our
01:13:09.760
constitution yeah um and that's that's still our our mission goal today so cool interesting
01:13:15.580
i'll go ahead and read the next one all right this is from josh pulver when will the condensed
01:13:20.700
version of wolf is wolf's book be released i read like a snail yeah i write like a snail um i i
01:13:27.360
don't know the exact i don't want to give a time frame on it it'll be next year we'll just put it
01:13:31.540
that way because i really don't know sometime next year yeah sometime next year i'll try to
01:13:36.920
get it done as soon as i can and all that stuff so great uh go back up to the top nate let's now
01:13:43.020
go prioritize order uh sacred penguin is that we're at yep scared penguin
01:13:48.880
um that sounds like neo-calvinist everything there's no sacred anyway right yeah yeah
01:13:58.220
everything's sacred everything um will you consider a part two to the jew israel series
01:14:04.400
cover best ways to effectively witness to them uh that's that's a great idea i i don't know if we
01:14:10.680
could get a um part two series but what andrew and i could do because we have talked about that
01:14:16.500
and it's important um you know uh andrew i have both said we hate talmudic judaism but we love
01:14:22.340
jews and wish them a very pleasant conversion to christianity so um i don't think we could do a
01:14:26.720
whole uh series scared penguin uh but i do think that we could what we could do is like a um a
01:14:33.620
bonus episode like just a full episode on uh evangelizing jews and and that's a great idea
01:14:38.820
all right what's the best way to communicate these truths to our more feminist brothers
01:14:45.660
and sisters so keyword they're being brothers and sisters i suppose so dealing with a christian
01:14:50.400
audience i i'll mention just one thing here i mentioned to someone recently specifically in
01:14:55.960
the context of this red dress controversy and he was talking about well now his wife's a little bit
01:15:00.100
upset with him because he said well yes that is what the verse says and now i said that's great
01:15:07.100
i love seeing reform pastors just a heartwarming example of them sowing marital discord husband and
01:15:13.420
wife now upset at each other praise god that's great i said to him sarcasm you don't need your
01:15:19.060
wife to agree with that statement at least not right now yeah what you need to do is you need
01:15:24.220
to build into your family or your church the doctrine of patriarchy of of roles of biblical
01:15:32.240
roles and they need to be rooted pre-fall um so it needs to be presented as as not just something
01:15:44.520
And that needs to be presented and reinforced slowly,
01:16:00.660
Go slowly, present the word, let the word do its work.
01:16:06.600
Because part of the problem is women are convinced that if they submit, their husband is just going to be the kind who spends, you know, 20 hours a week watching football.
0.95
01:16:20.360
She submits to a man who, she submits, that's her calling.
01:16:23.680
But ideally, the leadership role that a husband is to exercise is supposed to be substantial.
01:16:29.560
And so that leading a family and submitting make sense together.
01:16:35.660
so i don't know it's if it's in the family if it's in your family or in your church close friends
01:16:41.100
don't push too hard too quickly one piece of advice that's good that i often give that's
01:16:46.180
painfully practical but highly effective and it plays into kind of the top of the episode and what
01:16:51.960
what steven said women tend to be more consensus driven and men tend to be more contrarian
01:16:58.740
um well you can be strategic and shrewd not compromised and not deceitful but but wise
0.91
01:17:05.840
um and play into that feminine nature of them being consensus driven uh if you want your wife
1.00
01:17:11.640
uh to become super duper based uh get her around um based women like seriously uh like
1.00
01:17:24.340
you can show her the truths of scripture and that should be enough should be enough and over time
01:17:30.500
if she's a christian by the power of the holy spirit and sanctification i i have to believe
01:17:34.800
that that it can be enough and often will be enough um but also you can play to her natural
01:17:41.500
disposition um if uh if a family moves to georgetown all right i'd like to think that
01:17:48.440
we're one of the uh the the boroughs that people could uh select back to a previous question if
01:17:53.940
somebody moves to georgetown and joins covenant bible church and uh and the wife has a pattern of
01:18:01.000
of um being insubordinate and disrespecting her husband and not submitting to him um it's not just
01:18:08.080
that her husband would be trying to lead her in the opposite direction but every single woman in
01:18:12.600
church would as well she will be um she's going to experience some what i would call righteous
01:18:19.260
peer pressure he's going to feel out of place she might even be a little bit embarrassed like one
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of the reasons why women sometimes object to their husband even though they should trust him
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one of the reasons they object to their husband is because the husband is the minority and the
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consensus everyone else around them is reinforcing their feminist default factory settings so get her
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out of that environment and so like so what community you choose to be a part of what church
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you choose to be members is paramount and if it's like well but we're going to the best church that
01:18:52.040
we can find within a 60 mile radius and all that like i get it in some cases move well we can't
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move because uh you know both pawpaws not just one but both of our pawpaws and our meemaws you
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know they're they're both sick you know and we have i get it there's family uh obligations but
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so you may not be able to go to a good church and blah blah blah um but here's something you can do
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and and i know that there's a little bit of a price but i mean you know um well what's the value
01:19:15.440
of your wife's soul and the value of your marriage and all these kinds of things like
01:19:18.220
um okay you can't find a church well maybe you can't go to a great church every single week
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but um you could go to a conference once a year conference is just for the record it is not about
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the content our conference we're going to do everything we can to provide great content but
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you can all the content will eventually be available on youtube right spoiler alert um
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you know like you technically don't have to come to our conference if all you want is the content
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but here's the point um the point is that content is not the point uh the the purpose of conferences
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it's uh it's the relationships it's the networking um and it's and it's a three-day reprieve from a
01:19:56.420
world that's gone to hell in a handbasket to be just simply reminded to have a sanity check and
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be reminded that you're not alone and that you're not crazy and to be around other like-minded
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people and uh and your wife if she's not particularly on board but she's open but
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She's not really on board with some of these things.
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Bring her to the Right Response Conference,
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and she'll be surrounded by a bunch of women
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who are joyfully submitting to their husbands,
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01:20:23.860
children that are playing around during the sessions,
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and she'll realize, hey, there's a bunch of happy families.
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that's preordained towards the majority might be right or even the majority must be right get her
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around a thousand people who are all telling her she's wrong and without even saying it without
01:20:48.780
being disrespectful but but merely by their presence and their actions and um and she'll be
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like oh there's actually a lot of people who think like my husband so maybe i can agree with him now
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right use that to your advantage yeah that's my thought all right one more question and uh let's
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call it a day this is this real quick someone's asking if they can if there's going to be an
01:21:09.560
option to pay to watch the conference live yes uh so you got the isker series now on patreon
01:21:15.020
you got steven wolf coming out in january it's going to be at first on patreon and uh you also
01:21:19.900
have same thing the conference will be available um exclusively to live stream as it's happening
01:21:25.180
on patreon and not only to live stream if you miss it as it's happening uh the full recorded
01:21:29.860
sessions will be right there every single one of them the debate uh the panels the the major
01:21:34.360
sessions all of it will be available on patreon the moment that it happens and um and then it will
01:21:40.660
be eventually made be made available to the public but we're going to slow drip out one piece it's
01:21:45.060
going to be three panels eight main sessions so 11 pieces of content dropped one per week one per
01:21:51.360
week so you're talking almost three months by the time you get all of them out um and so all that
01:21:56.000
will be dropped one of these 11 pieces of content per week uh to the public but if you want all 11
01:22:02.300
pieces of content to watch live as it's happening or in the next couple days or the next couple
01:22:06.580
weeks you don't want to wait um go to patreon and that one i'm pretty sure uh for the live stream
01:22:12.020
we're going to make that available uh for our gold tier patreon members but again that'll be
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patreon.com forward slash right response ministries patreon.com forward slash right response ministries
01:22:21.180
gold tier it'll be 10 bucks um and you'll basically get to virtually attend our conference for 10
01:22:26.720
bucks you can watch the stuff and cancel if you want so you should do it i'll end with a two-part
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a super chat they're both for steven so okay two simple questions jeff halfley what are some of
01:22:36.840
your favorite founders who are also vocal christians examples like patrick hendry and
01:22:40.800
roger sherman and samuel adams and then steven from michael which ministries do you think have
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helped advance christian nationalism the most so favorite founders who are christian and then
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ministries today that are helping yeah i mean everyone loves sam adams samuel adams so i won't
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mention that but i actually really like roger sherman he's one of those forgotten founders
01:22:58.480
He was very, very important from everything from Continental Congress to First Amendment.
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John Adams called him an old Puritan, and he was a very, very important man.
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He also, he dialogued with Jonathan Edwards' son.
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I don't remember his name, but yeah, and there's writings of Roger Sherman where he was like
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an amateur theologian, and it was like clearly old-style orthodoxy.
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so i always like roger sherman less known um but yeah there's also john witherspoon and i who's the
01:23:33.760
other guy patrick hent uh patrick if you there's an orson wells reading of patrick henry's um give
01:23:40.400
me a liberty speech so if you see if you like search that on on youtube and it's really great
01:23:45.040
so watch that um all right and so the uh which ministry you think is help advance christian
01:23:49.840
national i would say uh sovereign nations has done a lot for me no actually i mean in a way
01:23:56.800
that's where i got my start like a lot of the book was uh from the articles for that that's true
01:24:01.520
that's funny now they don't exactly like me um but i think like right response joel webin um
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is also i mean good friends have been like john harris john harris doesn't say he's a christian
01:24:12.000
nationalist he doesn't identify with that but he's been a good friend um i don't know american american
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yeah yeah i mean he and i are not like he doesn't totally align with what i say but but he's a good
01:24:23.280
guy um uh american reformer of course so american reformer is crucial uh that's that's like in terms
01:24:31.020
of like print in terms of like articles that is the spearhead for for uh not just christian
01:24:37.240
nationalism but the broad christian right so if you're not following american reformer or getting
01:24:41.120
the emails go go on there and subscribe to those guys definitely all right guys um oh and i saw in
01:24:48.020
chat a few people asked uh how's mabel she is doing great um and one of the the challenges that
01:24:53.580
we have had um is when it comes to uh nursing and some of you guys were aware of that and have been
01:25:00.880
praying and uh i'm pleased to say she's about a month old uh gaining weight even ahead of schedule
01:25:07.520
and no supplementing necessary and this is our fifth child the first time that god has enabled
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my wife to be able to do that so my wife is almost um almost in tears with just how happy
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and grateful she is so um things are going great i appreciate you guys um asking and your prayers
01:25:23.960
and concern for her and um please uh keep our ministry um in your prayers um controversy
01:25:32.260
doesn't bother me a whole lot but it is tiring at times so pray that the lord would sustain me
01:25:36.620
and that i would be faithful and um and vigilant and and that i would be uh never back down in
01:25:42.280
terms of courage, but also that I would continue to refine in terms of wisdom, that I wouldn't be
01:25:47.040
foolish, that it wouldn't just be controversy for controversy's sake, and kind of a blend of
01:25:53.500
Right Response Ministries and Mabel and my family. We've got five kids. They're all little, all under
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the age of seven, and a newborn that's a month old. And so we have needs on the family side
01:26:09.180
where right response um right and it blends over to where like right response basically we need
01:26:15.040
i've said this before but we need some help we need um some staff um we need some more resources
01:26:19.720
we need some more some extra space uh to rent and things like that and um and we're coming up on the
01:26:26.000
end of the year and i don't want to be a burden to anybody don't ever do this as a substitute to
01:26:31.300
tithing to your local church or anything like that um nobody needs to you know have their kids
01:26:35.620
skip a meal you know on behalf of this ministry but if the lord has um enabled you and blessed you
01:26:40.900
and if he's used this ministry as a spiritual blessing and it's not at the expense of your
01:26:46.140
family your church then we humbly request that you would consider not just you know coming to
01:26:50.600
a conference or paying for content with patreon but um we are a non-profit um organization a
01:26:57.280
ministry and um and we we ultimately uh survive off of simply generosity and your donations and
01:27:05.320
And so here at the end, we're coming up at the end of the year.
01:27:13.400
And so here at the end of the year, my prayer, I'm not really, I haven't pushed for it much,
01:27:18.080
but I'm praying that God in his kindness and faithfulness towards us as we seek to be faithful to you
01:27:23.240
is that God would move on the hearts of some of you to give some like really generous, larger gifts,
01:27:34.300
we're here at the end of the year for tax purposes and generosity purposes and all those
01:27:39.380
things. If you would consider giving a gift to Right Response, whether big or small, we would
01:27:44.940
be incredibly grateful and appreciative for that. You can do so by going to rightresponseministries.com
01:27:52.540
forward slash donate. Again, that's rightresponseministries.com forward slash donate.
01:27:59.420
Your gifts are tax deductible, and every single penny will be used not just to make somebody
01:28:06.620
comfortable, but to either get another camera or a few more square feet or an administrative
01:28:18.180
It's going to be three times next year instead of once.
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That's just too much for me to expect it to be pro bono.
01:28:23.840
And so I need to, the only way they're able to do that is they're going to be pulling
01:28:26.700
back from their day jobs and that income has to be made up with Right Response so that they can come
01:28:31.720
and be a blessing to me and be a blessing to you and offer their services and their wisdom and
01:28:35.760
their insight three times a week instead of one. And it's just the reality of the world. All those
01:28:40.240
things cost money. So if you're willing to be generous towards this ministry, we're incredibly
01:28:44.880
grateful. Thank you so much. Again, rightresponseministries.com forward slash donate. Merry
01:28:50.880
christmas lord willing we'll see you again next week um and stay faithful and trust the lord
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be bold and also don't be stupid all right
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