The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - NatCon 2025 ｜ Muslims, Catholics, & Jews

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00:00:27.340 NatCon 2025 just ended.

00:00:29.420 That's National Conservativism, their 2025 conference.

00:00:33.980 That was just last week.

00:00:35.980 And there are things that are encouraging.

00:00:38.400 There are guys on the right wing who are taking stands and saying things that honestly would have been unheard of even just a couple years ago.

00:00:46.600 However, there is a growing concern that I have when it comes to NatCon about a few things, but one in particular.

00:00:55.620 And this is what we're going to highlight in this episode.

00:00:57.940 we'll show you clips, we will show you quotes, but one of the reoccurring themes that I've noticed

00:01:04.100 from watching some of the material from this most recent conference is as follows, that there are

00:01:10.560 Muslims who are a major threat to the United States. I agree. And then there are Jews and

00:01:18.540 Catholics that can be co-belligerents with this distinctly Christian American project.

00:01:26.500 Now, what I don't like about that is I don't like that Jews and Catholics are being roped into the same category.

00:01:34.900 I would prefer to have three categories.

00:01:38.160 It's a throwaway line.

00:01:39.880 You may not notice in some of these speeches, but it is intentional, and it is present, and it is a reoccurring phrase.

00:01:47.900 You'll hear again and again from NatCon, there are Muslims.

00:01:51.900 They are a threat.

00:01:52.860 right their religion their ideology their customs their way of life is wholly incompatible with

00:01:59.320 western civilization with america again i agree but then the throw a throwaway line the little

00:02:07.080 bit of uh fine print that they add on is but jews and catholics there's a place for them

00:02:13.700 we can be co-belligerents and what i want to ask is this how are jews and catholics being placed

00:02:20.080 by Christians. It's one thing if these are guys on the right wing who are Jews themselves, right?

00:02:26.000 They do this, but we should expect it. But why are Christian ministers and Christian leaders

00:02:33.120 participating in NatCon and regurgitating the same rhetoric that Jews and Catholics are in the same

00:02:41.640 co-belligerent category? I understand that for those of us who are part of the Reformed tradition,

00:02:47.460 that the Reformed tradition has a long history of not being very fond of Catholics for legitimate

00:02:55.120 reasons, theological reasons. I believe that Rome is in great, great error, theological error,

00:03:05.680 and it matters. And Reformed ministers and Protestants should talk about these things,

00:03:11.080 as I have, several times. But at the end of the day, here's the reality, and Reformed guys will

00:03:16.580 hate to hear this, but it is true. Catholics worship the triune God. They believe that the

00:03:23.260 Lord Jesus Christ is the eternal begotten Son of God. They hold to substitutionary atonement,

00:03:31.020 penal substitutionary atonement. Meanwhile, Jews believe that Jesus is a blasphemer currently

00:03:39.180 in hell. How are these two groups in the same category? If we can bifurcate Muslims,

00:03:47.500 and I think we should, from Catholics and even from Jews, I think that we need to distinguish

00:03:53.920 Jews from Catholics. I believe that Catholics culturally, politically, are and should be

00:04:02.720 viewed as co-belligerents to a Christian American project. Absolutely. Again, culturally and

00:04:10.360 politically viewed as co-belligerents. That does not mean I'm going to have a Catholic as an elder

00:04:16.500 in my church or preaching in my church. But in the realm of culture and politics, I believe that

00:04:23.180 Roman Catholics can and should be treated as co-belligerents in culture and politics in this

00:04:30.460 restoration of America. Jews, however, are a different story. They are not on the same team,

00:04:39.200 not culturally, not politically, and certainly not religiously. If we are going, as Christians,

00:04:46.760 Protestants, and especially Reformed Protestants, to be upfront and clear and even vehement about

00:04:55.220 the theological distinctions of which there are many, and they are significant between ourselves

00:05:02.100 and Catholics, then we must be at least stronger in our rhetoric towards Jews, and particularly

00:05:11.740 the Jewish ideology, Judaism, as a religion. I'll end with this with a cold open.

00:05:18.580 I find it odd that many Reformed ministers apply to Catholics

00:05:25.360 particular scriptures that were written by the apostles about Jews.

00:05:31.240 I'll say that again.

00:05:32.720 I find it odd.

00:05:34.520 I find it strange.

00:05:36.460 I find it even suspicious that many Reformed Christians

00:05:40.500 will apply scriptures to Catholics

00:05:44.480 that were written by the apostles about Jews.

00:05:48.580 Who is the Antichrist, but he who denies that Jesus came in the flesh?

00:05:54.620 Catholics say what you will, with all the theological distinctions that we hold.

00:06:00.460 Catholics do not deny that Jesus came in the flesh, but Jews do.

00:06:06.220 They do.

00:06:07.460 Let's get into it.

00:06:19.200 We're back.

00:06:20.120 We're back.

00:06:20.760 So back.

00:06:21.500 So I don't know about many of our listeners, but I can just speak for myself that NatCon

00:06:25.620 and kind of the understanding of the individuals, the organizations, the money, and kind of

00:06:30.040 their interests, this is really a pretty new thing.

00:06:32.380 There's a vacuum that's come about in the last five years or so that the neocons used

00:06:36.600 to fill.

00:06:37.100 For one, neoconservative, the old kind of guard, the Billy Crystals of the old day,

00:06:41.320 they're getting older, right?

00:06:42.320 Nikki Haley, the Bushes.

00:06:43.820 We're not going to see a Bush dynasty revolution with Jeb Bush coming back in 2028.

00:06:48.580 making a serious run for presidency presidency you had good dead and gone good raise the lord

00:06:54.140 so you have a vacuum left by new conservatism and even still you have just broader conservatism in

00:06:59.160 general uh it's it's giving way to a new muscular brand of right-wing politics that in many ways

00:07:04.980 still has to be defined in 2019 a new player emerged to attempt to fill this vacuum joel

00:07:11.680 webin no i'm just don't love it you're filling that vacuum even prior to it but uh 2019 the

00:07:17.080 Edmund Burke Foundation was started. The Edmund Burke Foundation, one of his chairmen, you'll

00:07:21.140 probably be very familiar with his name, Yoram Hazoni. There's a number of other individuals

00:07:26.220 on the board. And they began running NatCon conferences. So there's been about five of them

00:07:30.300 so far. And they're aiming to kind of fill a new conservative style of thought in Washington. Again,

00:07:36.240 you have neoconservatism, which is on the down, going down. You have MAGA, which is ascendant.

00:07:40.640 But MAGA doesn't have an intellectual component. And so national conservatism as a movement,

00:07:45.200 as an idea, as a think tank, as a conference, as a collection of thinkers, is really aiming to,

00:07:50.400 and especially with this administration, come in and fill that role. We'll be the intellectual

00:07:55.440 vanguard for anti-immigration, for instance. We'll be the intellectual vanguard for protection of

00:08:00.520 religious speech and things like that. So they've come in and they've attempted to kind of brand

00:08:04.400 themselves as that. And to be clear, NatCon casts a very wide tent. You would have guys that we've

00:08:09.560 had in the show before that were at NatCon that we'd have a lot of agreement with, all the way to

00:08:13.960 rabbis that would be there, would be speaking. You have J.D. Vance has spoken there in the past.

00:08:19.140 Missouri Senator Eric Schmidt spoke here this year. We'll talk a little bit more about that later.

00:08:23.700 So it's a big tent, but you have to notice what they're trying to do. They're trying to brand

00:08:27.260 themselves as the intellectual conservative arm. And in some ways, we talked about this a couple

00:08:32.340 weeks ago on our episode about the new right, they're kind of trying to get ahead of some of

00:08:36.340 the people like you, Joel, and others who are speaking, who are gaining an audience. But your

00:08:40.880 ideas, if carried out and brought to fulfillment, for example, a Christian nation, well, a lot of

00:08:45.580 individuals in the Edmund Burke Foundation, they kind of realize, wait, that wouldn't actually go

00:08:49.980 too well for us. Yoram Hazzoni, just as a matter of fact, he's an Orthodox practicing Jew. Who lives

00:08:55.420 in Israel. Who lives in Israel. But spends a decent amount of time in the United States. Another one

00:08:59.580 on the board, Rafi Ice. He is the executive director of the Herzl Institute, so a Jewish

00:09:05.520 think tank sponsors trips to israel josh hammer one of the research editors about half the board

00:09:11.720 there is probably orthodox jews and it's not derogatory that's just a statement that's just

00:09:16.040 who they are absolutely that is what it is and so of course they have a vested interest but just to

00:09:19.740 broaden it out a little bit more so you you have some of these guys and they're not just speakers

00:09:23.280 right the lineup of speakers was like 60 to 100 people you think our conference had a lot of guys

00:09:27.720 my goodness like 60 to 100 people there's multiple breakout sessions and things like that and some

00:09:31.700 of the guys who are speaking are friends you know people that we appreciate calvin robinson

00:09:35.440 was at our conference he was there um but you're talking about these are our members of the board

00:09:41.060 these are the premier leaders of this organization and not only that but this is what people need to

00:09:46.300 understand they're they're this is what they do i'm just going to say it out loud my goodness

00:09:51.380 uh i i'm going out of town um and i'm glad uh for the safety of of my family um not so much

00:09:59.300 because of what i'm about to say although it probably will get me in trouble but uh some

00:10:02.540 things that i said earlier this week um but you have these leaders but it's not just these

00:10:09.040 individual jewish leaders but they are regularly sponsoring and funding fully funded trips to

00:10:16.940 israel and they're taking and and targeting you know any kind of up-and-coming significant

00:10:23.380 you know, individual leader, right? Potential leader on the right wing. And they take them

00:10:29.420 on a trip to Israel, you know, and these guys, it's their prerogative, right? They're not held

00:10:34.820 at gunpoint that they have to kiss the wall and wear the tiny hat. Some of them do, some of them

00:10:39.640 don't. Um, but they are going on a strategic. They're generally not asking people now at this

00:10:44.760 point because it's become a negative thing because they realize here's the picture. Exactly. So

00:10:48.900 they're getting strategic. Well, we just want you to go to the Holy land, right? The place where

00:10:52.740 Jesus walked. And they go on this trip, and they spend, you know, a week or 10 days, week and a

00:10:57.320 half there, and they're meeting with certain people, and they're trying to, you know, they're

00:11:03.620 trying to cast Israel in a positive light in the minds and hearts of some of these young, up-and-coming

00:11:10.740 right-wing leaders. And I'm going to name, I think it's just, it's a great example. It's a specific

00:11:17.260 and very accurate example i think it should be named so cross politic toby sumter um and the

00:11:24.640 cross politic guys gabe wrench and uh chalk knocks did not go okay he did not go for him so those are

00:11:30.020 the three guys um on the show with cross politic and i want to publicly say i love all three of

00:11:35.080 these men they've been a blessing to me uh in the past we are we don't have the closeness of

00:11:40.340 relationship presently that we once did. We have gone separate ways, primarily over the issue of

00:11:49.600 Israel. Everybody knows it's not a secret, and I'm not going to speak about it in a disrespectful

00:11:54.320 way. But everybody knows that Moscow and Apologia and Ezra Institute, that they got together and

00:12:02.180 they formulated the Antioch Declaration that was specifically against guys like me. And I think

00:12:10.000 it's fair to say particularly me um with with um a whole instance that that blew up uh last year in

00:12:16.560 2024 and so ever since then you know we've kind of parted weights and you know a lot of the the

00:12:23.640 you know strong attacks have have died down praise god um i don't want to be at enmity with uh any of

00:12:29.240 these people and like i said in in particular to cross politic um you know gabriel wrench uh was

00:12:35.440 for a time he was on the board of Right Response Ministries. And so I love Gabriel, I love Toby,

00:12:41.400 and I love Chalk Knox. That said, I'm not going on any sponsored trips to Israel. I give you my

00:12:48.980 promise to the listeners of Right Response. And here's the thing, it's not just, oh, well,

00:12:53.240 is it a sin to go on a trip to Israel? Of course not. No. But when you're paid to go,

00:13:00.100 and then here's the big thing and you come back and you do a full episode on israel and then you

00:13:07.800 say that israel and this is a quote from cross politics episode as soon as they return from the

00:13:13.140 trip and i quote that israel is uh the front line against lgbt barbarism was the quote israel is the

00:13:24.080 front line, right? You're talking about a nation that is the capital of the world for protecting

00:13:30.260 pedophiles. This is facts. You can look it up. You're talking about Tel Aviv, which is one of

00:13:36.400 the largest gay pride events annually in the world. You're talking about, you can look up

00:13:42.500 the numbers. Tel Aviv, 25% of the population, which I believe is about half a million, about

00:13:48.420 400,000, 500,000, 25% identifies as LGBT. So you're talking about the capital city

00:13:55.440 where a quarter of them are gay. And you're saying that nation is the front line tip of the spear

00:14:04.660 against LGBT barbarism. Now, another statement that's kind of similar language, right? Different

00:14:13.740 different nouns different subjects but similar language similar concept was made approximately

00:14:19.300 two years ago and maybe you guys will remember it the statement was this white evangelicals are

00:14:25.360 the lone bulwark against the moral insanity in america and people from a wise man that said that

00:14:33.140 a wise man statistically proven he was talking about politically speaking in terms of their

00:14:39.540 voting power. And all this is in the tweet. He made a thread talking about Stephen Wolf,

00:14:44.600 Dr. Stephen Wolf, God bless him. We're doing a special series with him right now on Fridays

00:14:48.440 with our Friday special, all on Christian nationalism. He posted that and he was raked

00:14:54.320 over the coals and dragged, as the kids say, they're going to drag you. And they did for

00:15:01.180 months and months and months. And Moscow participated in that. His own publisher,

00:15:05.740 The publishing house of Doug Wilson in Moscow, Cannon Press, came out and retweeted the day that Stephen Wolf said,

00:15:14.300 White evangelicals are the lone bulwark against the moral insanity of America.

00:15:17.780 They retweeted it, his own publisher, and he's the best-selling book from their publishing house, The Case for Christian Nationalism.

00:15:25.020 They retweeted their best-selling author and said, this is dumb.

00:15:30.160 Right?

00:15:30.680 And certain individuals from CrossPolitik came out publicly.

00:15:35.740 and said this is dumb or something to that effect um so so let's just get it straight real quick

00:15:43.900 white evangelicals are the lone bulwark against the moral insanity of america abortion

00:15:50.380 transgenderism gay marriage all these kinds of things and steven wolf puts in the tweet in the

00:15:56.060 thread the voting stats the voting demographics of white evangelicals and what they vote against

00:16:04.540 It was clear. It was a political tweet talking about politically being a bulwark in terms of

00:16:09.240 their vote. This demographic is, it stands alone as a bulwark against the moral insanity of America.

00:16:17.660 True. True. And it was mocked. And not just mocked, but it was accused by some as being sinister

00:16:26.000 and wicked. And then the statement is made, I believe this happened last week,

00:16:30.700 um israel is the tip of the spear the word was front line tip of the spear so white evangelicals

00:16:40.340 a shield the premier shield against the moral insanity of america israel is the premier offense

00:16:48.180 against lgbt barbarism israel capital city a quarter of them are gay right one of the biggest

00:16:57.340 uh lgbt pride parades in the world and harboring more pedophiles with impunity than any other

00:17:07.020 nation in the world and you look at transgenderism all the who who pushed transgender ideology

00:17:14.760 right who who was it you know who who were the authors of some of these books that were being

00:17:19.540 burned in 1930s, you know, Weimar, Germany. Juice. And so to say, not just to go on the trip,

00:17:28.320 you know, I'm going to go on the trip, but to go on a paid trip. And there are strings, guys.

00:17:34.500 There are. It's not formal. I'm sure it's not written in blood. Who knows? But I don't think

00:17:39.680 it's written in blood. But there is an informal understanding, a catch. There is a catch. And the

00:17:45.600 catch is we are you're you're on the right wing and you are showing promise and on the rise and

00:17:52.700 we would just like to you know pay five six seven eight ten thousand dollars to take you on a you

00:17:58.980 know seven to ten day trip to israel where you may or may not you know kiss the wall and wear the

00:18:05.100 little hat and we're gonna you know show you how great israel is and how they really are america's

00:18:12.800 greatest ally. And then I'm sure it's just a coincidence that you come back from that trip

00:18:18.040 and the week after you're saying Israel is the front line against LGBT barbarism, which is

00:18:24.680 a bald faced lie. It is, it is false on its face. So all that, that trip, I believe was with Jorm

00:18:34.300 Hazoning, who is the head of NatCon. That's how it all ties in. I was going to say, I don't,

00:18:41.380 I've never been on the trip, nor has anyone said, this is what is done. But I can imagine with a

00:18:45.600 trip like that too, that you would know if you have Christians, there's a specific way to appeal

00:18:49.800 to them. So instead of coming out and being like, and here's how we defend against this and that,

00:18:54.200 very much so the trip could have been framed of, and here's where Jesus would have walked.

00:18:57.540 They themselves, Yoram, for example, being Orthodox Jew, not believing in Jesus, but hey,

00:19:01.460 you're a Christian. Here's where Jesus walked. And here's potentially where you believe he rose

00:19:05.260 from the dead. Who knows? Exactly. So you probably can say all of those things, but you have to

00:19:09.080 understand uh there is not just out of the goodness of their heart groups that oh there's

00:19:13.220 no strings attached we would love to pay five thousand dollars for you and your team and your

00:19:17.080 wife to come visit and we show you these sites that's actually kind of the subversive nature of

00:19:21.580 it again i don't literally know what yoram or other tour guides are telling them but there's

00:19:25.460 a very specific reason and then to come back and act like this wasn't propaganda israel is very

00:19:30.600 famous for propaganda there's a reason in law we have so is america but yeah so is america but we

00:19:36.020 did good propaganda. I mean, Cold War, come on. But there's a category in law for recusal. I got

00:19:41.860 money. I'm not impartial. I have a relationship to the judge. I'm not impartial. So it speaks

00:19:49.120 to a naivety, exactly, to go, not just to go, because, hey, there's good guys that have gone,

00:19:54.620 but to go and then come back and pretend as though, man, just this was out of the goodness

00:19:58.200 of their heart and all the things they showed me. Wow, they perfectly agreed with my Christian

00:20:01.980 worldview. Well, maybe there's a specific reason if you're feeling like, wow, Israel's on the

00:20:06.020 the defense for Western moral values, maybe they showed you those parts of it. Did they show you

00:20:10.980 maybe the other part where they're starving children in Gaza? Did they show you the parts

00:20:14.680 where psychological warfare, the Israelis in the West Bank would blast pornography against Muslim

00:20:19.500 fighters to demoralize them and to make them feel scandalized? Or where groups of Jews are spitting

00:20:24.400 on Christian evangelists as they share the gospel? You can tell me that wasn't part of the tour.

00:20:29.300 And I don't know what happened on the tour, but I can imagine that's probably how it went down.

00:20:34.000 and Christians have to be have their eyes wide open and say, wait a second, I can kind of see

00:20:38.880 you want something from me. And this is what you're trying to get. And then to say, if this

00:20:42.800 isn't true, guys, I'm just not going to push it and be willing to look a little farther and say,

00:20:46.980 okay, you've told me you don't, you know, you're for Western values and traditional marriage.

00:20:50.980 Not everybody goes on that pride parade, right? Not everybody goes on that trip and then comes

00:20:54.800 back and like cross politics says something, you know, positive. And I think foolishly positive,

00:20:59.940 like Israel, you know, being the tip of the spear, the front line against LGBT barbarism.

00:21:04.660 But what I have noticed is that guys go on that trip, and if they don't come back and say something

00:21:08.380 positive about Israel, what they do is they do stop saying things negative about Israel. And

00:21:14.540 then a few months later, they get an invitation that I don't get to go and speak at NatCon.

00:21:19.100 Let's play a clip from NatCon, because you mentioned earlier Catholics and Jews,

00:21:22.020 and we can get into it. And so here's Douglas Wilson. He gave a talk on false gods, on the

00:21:26.760 golden calf. And so this is specifically what you're kind of referencing. It was kind of

00:21:30.560 presence throughout NatCon. It was referenced a couple of different times, but here it is best

00:21:33.980 encapsulated as he speaks about America as a Christian nation and Catholics and Jews in it.

00:21:38.780 And it is simply a historical fact that America was deeply Christian and Protestant at the founding.

00:21:45.000 And third, in the meantime, it is not xenophobic to object to the immigration policies of those

00:21:51.200 who want to turn the Michigan-Ohio border into something that resembles the India-Pakistan

00:21:55.880 border. That kind of nonsense from our utopian social engineers is actually the root of our

00:22:02.120 current set of practical dilemmas. While remaining Protestant in her ethos, Protestant America did

00:22:09.140 successfully adapt to the presence of Catholics and Jews, and nothing succeeds like success.

00:22:14.540 But millions of Muslims without any commitment to or mechanism of assimilation is another matter.

00:22:20.920 Well, what do you think, Wes?

00:22:22.540 There's a lot of talk about a letter that Washington writes.

00:22:25.740 He writes to a couple Hebrew congregations after the Revolutionary War.

00:22:29.840 And one of the things that he does, and we just have to be honest about what he does,

00:22:32.660 I'm not going to put propaganda on you on the other side of things here,

00:22:35.520 is he makes very clear that his goal for America is to be much more welcoming and inclusive.

00:22:39.860 And he's writing to Hebrew congregations saying,

00:22:41.760 in the America that we envision, we want to give nothing to animus.

00:22:47.780 We don't want to give anything to prejudice.

00:22:50.000 We want you to be fully included.

00:22:51.400 He says he wants Jews to not move from merely being tolerated, but being included in the United States.

00:22:56.520 And different guys, you saw this with Kevin DeYoung and the president of Hillsdale College.

00:23:00.500 You would kind of probably, Doug is having that in the back of his mind.

00:23:03.860 There is a bit of a strain there with the founding fathers for inclusion.

00:23:08.000 But if you look back and you zoom out a little bit farther, I would at least say this of Washington.

00:23:11.920 He's in a context where they're trying very much so to get people on board with the federalized,

00:23:17.620 you can think of the Federalist papers, on board with the federal vision. And so some of this

00:23:23.420 appeal is rhetorical. Now, whether it's rhetorical or not, we do have to be honest and say there is

00:23:28.840 nothing of the American system. So Doug says Catholics and Jews were integrated. And it's

00:23:32.960 true definitely to a degree. Catholics, as far as judgeships, as far as politicians, as far as even

00:23:38.080 just having, I almost said synagogues, having their own churches and all that, that certainly

00:23:42.360 was the case. But we can't say that very much so at all of Jews, of Hebrew synagogues. There was

00:23:49.520 some toleration, yes. But as far as large-scale participation, to pretend as though that ranked

00:23:55.340 at the same scale, the same degree that integration of Catholics would, I'm aware of the letters. I'm

00:24:00.680 aware of what Washington said. I'm aware of what Jefferson said when writing about Article 6 in

00:24:05.160 the Constitution, when it refers to religious tests of office. I get that those are there.

00:24:08.820 But to pretend as though to the same scale they both participated in, it's just completely not true.

00:24:14.920 And it's being done to shift the frame, and we saw this a lot at NatCon, to shift the frame to Muslims.

00:24:22.080 To shift the frame and say, hey, listen, this is not the enemy.

00:24:25.660 Catholics are not your enemy. Jews are not your enemy.

00:24:28.280 Islam, the caliphate state, that's what's coming to America.

00:24:32.780 But I think Jews, like practicing Muslims, sorry, like 1% of the United States.

00:24:37.920 So they're shifting the view and saying, no, no, no, this group of people is the problem.

00:24:41.720 And these ones, they've always participated, always been part of the fabric, always our foundation.

00:24:46.160 But you look at the three, and we have our problems with Catholics, but there's one of them, and you say, wait a second.

00:24:51.320 They didn't participate at all.

00:24:52.460 They didn't fight in the revolution.

00:24:53.780 They didn't contribute.

00:24:54.840 There was no rabbi praying over the Constitution as they formed it.

00:24:58.240 They actually didn't have a partner framework.

00:24:59.720 It was mainly immigration in the early 1900s from different programs, and especially after World War II.

00:25:04.980 They were much later a part of the fabric of our nation.

00:25:07.980 And you're actually trying to sell us something that's kind of subversive.

00:25:12.060 And I can't help but think, again, NatCon, Edmund Burke Foundation, that's who puts it on.

00:25:17.540 I mean, you have rabbis, you have the president, Garam Zoni, president of the Herzl Institute.

00:25:22.140 Their interest, just derogatory, their interest is going to be, guys, I need you to carve out a space for Jews in American public and political life.

00:25:31.380 So we should just say that.

00:25:32.300 And if you're going to come out and you're going to give us an unhistorical fact and pass it off as truth to that purpose, of course, people are going to look at you and say, well, hold on a second.

00:25:43.160 It seems like you're carrying water for a specific narrative and a specific narrative that has potential to do a lot of damage.

00:25:50.080 Well said. All right, let's go to our first commercial break and then we will be right back.

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00:28:16.020 I am going to give some positives from NatCon, though.

00:28:19.040 Senator Eric Schmidt, I think, was one of the bright stars at the time there.

00:28:22.900 I mean, this is the U.S. senator from Missouri.

00:28:24.720 You have 50 senators in the Senate.

00:28:26.740 This is not a position that is low-grade.

00:28:29.180 I mean, this is something, these are high-profile individuals.

00:28:32.180 And what you see here, I'm going to read some quotes from him.

00:28:34.400 Is Senator Eric Schmidt, a Republican senator from Missouri, repeating our talking lines?

00:28:38.960 And I think this matters.

00:28:40.040 You know, there was a time where if you were a neoconservative, you were Mitt Romney, you were Nikki Haley, there was a time where you could pass off and kind of get away with the rhetoric of Reagan, the rhetoric of Clinton, even in the 80s and the 90s, and people would tolerate it.

00:28:54.240 That you could go to a donor dinner, that you could go to an event, you could go to a campus, you could speak, you could say all these things, and people wouldn't bat an eye.

00:29:02.500 But I think that time's actually changing, and that is incredible.

00:29:06.340 U.S. senators that are conservative now realize, whether they believe it or not,

00:29:11.220 and I think he really does believe it,

00:29:12.780 but they're realizing that there's a time, the time where you could refer to an America

00:29:16.440 as an idea or an American as someone that anyone born anywhere could become,

00:29:21.260 that that time has actually ended.

00:29:22.820 We're going to get to H-1Bs, but I want to start with something incredible.

00:29:25.860 Senator Schmidt's talk was, what is an American?

00:29:28.960 And he said this,

00:29:30.280 We Americans are the sons and daughters of the Christian pilgrims

00:29:33.220 that poured from Europe's shores to baptize a new world in their ancient faith. Our ancestors

00:29:38.340 were driven here by destiny, possessed by urgent and fiery conviction, by burning belief devoted

00:29:43.900 to their cause and to their God. He talks elsewhere that America was a gift in the Constitution. You

00:29:49.540 have we the people in order to secure a more perfect union for us and our posterity. That

00:29:54.740 America was something gifted to us from our ancestors for preservation. It's not an idea.

00:30:00.600 it's not a proposition it's not something you assent to intellectually it's a people distinct

00:30:05.800 people living in a distinct place and again you have u.s senators at national conferences with a

00:30:12.800 lot of eyes on them the guardian was covering it other news outlets they're getting up there and

00:30:17.020 they're saying hey everything you heard about america for the last 50 years you can become it

00:30:20.700 and you can become it you can become an american uh no that's not true this is what american is

00:30:25.920 yeah praise god um the change is palpable uh things are moving in the right direction

00:30:32.440 and um i guess all we're saying is uh you know because i don't want to sit here and be autistic

00:30:38.260 i don't want to sit here and say natcon is terrible and like there's a lot of good things

00:30:42.360 i've seen things from natcon there's a lot of good things that we agree with uh that we ourselves

00:30:47.060 have said and uh and there's guys again that we're personal friends with uh that we know

00:30:52.500 behind the scenes and and we can attest to their character that they're good guys they really are

00:30:58.380 and so um so yeah so i i'm grateful um but i think with any good thing there are always going to be

00:31:06.540 you know individuals who are thinking that you know they they lick their finger put it in the

00:31:12.640 wind they can see which direction you know the wind is blowing and uh and then try to run out

00:31:18.460 and get ahead of it. And I do think that there is some of that sense with NatCon, that this is the

00:31:26.520 future of America. These are the future leaders of America. These are the future virtues and ideas

00:31:33.100 of America. And if there's going to be any place for us, then we're going to need to be a part

00:31:40.660 of this project or even leading this project. And that's the concern. And so I stated it at

00:31:48.400 the outset of this episode in the cold open, but I'll state it again. One of the ways that I see

00:31:53.200 that happening, right? For people to simply say like, hey, you know, these guys are going to be

00:31:57.340 in charge. And so, you know, we want to be on their good side. That's a pretty natural instinct.

00:32:03.400 I understand that. But any rhetoric or any maneuver that would be deceitful in order to

00:32:11.280 achieve that end, that's where we have to draw the line. And I think that at least at bare minimum,

00:32:17.760 um one one form of rhetoric that i noticed being used multiple times over is this idea that

00:32:26.840 catholics and jews are kind of you know one in the same obviously distinctions and their beliefs

00:32:32.360 and these kinds of things but they're treated as they're they're both equal co-belligerents

00:32:37.280 So a Catholic is no closer to a Protestant Christian, to WASP, than a Jew.

00:32:48.160 And I'm looking at that and I'm thinking, how in the world do you square that round hole?

00:32:54.640 How in the world would you even begin to make the argument that the distance between us as Protestants and Catholics

00:33:00.880 is is equal to the distance between us and jews who don't not only do they not believe jesus is

00:33:09.740 god but they believe that jesus is an enemy of god that he is a blasphemer and a liar and

00:33:16.580 currently being punished in hell um say what you will about catholics but catholics don't think

00:33:24.240 that right catholics don't say that uh and and again that's just it bothers me when i i see

00:33:32.260 reformed ministers even pointing their their theological guns in in their rhetoric and in

00:33:39.680 their sermons against catholics and using the very scriptures and that's not to say that there

00:33:46.020 can't be some kind of application i'm aware of how scripture works scripture rc sproul used to say

00:33:51.180 this. Any given text of Scripture only has one faithful interpretation, but it can have virtually

00:33:57.980 limitless faithful applications. And those applications can also be in varying arenas

00:34:04.620 and to varying degrees. So to take a particular verse in Scripture that was written about Jews

00:34:10.220 at the time by the apostles, that was the authorial intent, and to apply it to Catholics in a

00:34:16.740 particular arena where they're, you know, they're wrong in their doctrine and saying something

00:34:22.420 that's untrue. I'm not saying that that's not fair game. I'm aware of the Reformed tradition.

00:34:27.320 There's plenty of that. And I think it can be done in ways that are fair, and there are ways that it

00:34:32.820 can be done that are unfair. So I'm not saying that you can never apply some of these scriptural

00:34:38.320 texts to Catholics. But if you're a Reformed minister who is only applying these scriptural

00:34:44.380 text to Catholics, and I never hear from you those scriptures being applied to the very group

00:34:51.360 of people they were written about, namely Jews, right? If you're a Reformed minister who is

00:34:59.200 regularly saying that the Roman Catholic Church is a synagogue of Satan, but then there are actual

00:35:05.380 synagogues that you never reference being synagogues of Satan, Jewish synagogues, then I'm

00:35:13.900 highly suspicious. I'm highly suspicious. In E. Michael Jones, The Revolutionary Spirit, I forget

00:35:19.120 who he's quoting, but you have a Jewish rabbi, and he said, there's many things that are true

00:35:24.040 of some parts of Judaism, but the literal central thing that you have to hold is we reject Christ.

00:35:30.240 Well, we can disagree on the Sabbath, and you can be, for example, a liberal or a progressive

00:35:34.100 Orthodox Jew. You can be just the Torah. You can do all these different things and hold all of

00:35:39.100 these different versions, but if you could say the core thing about the Christian is the acceptance

00:35:42.940 of christ christian christ little christ well the key tenant of judaism like we just have to be

00:35:49.300 honest is i reject christ a rejection of christ even as warm even as friendly as your may be

00:35:55.660 as josh hammer as all these guys and nothing against them personally if you're linking arms

00:36:00.500 with them we want to build civilization like you have to understand they're fundamental we're going

00:36:04.660 to build civilization with with those who reject the logos you reject they're rejecting of christ

00:36:10.680 we reject Christ, we reject his revelation, we reject him as the one, like you said, the Logos,

00:36:15.020 who orders and makes the world, which fundamentally, if you oppose that, you'd be

00:36:19.680 anti-Logos. That explains some of the Jewish tendencies towards democracy and liberalism,

00:36:24.460 especially in the 60s and the 70s. I fail to see how you could build a civilization. And what do

00:36:31.860 we do with this civilization? How does it work? What's at the foundation? Well, Jesus, get him

00:36:38.080 out you can't do that that's a house built on the sand and so it's hey if you get an invitation i

00:36:44.260 think you would do this if you've got an invitation to go to a conference and you're told you can say

00:36:47.680 anything you want you can speak about christ i would go you would i would go you i would never

00:36:52.420 be invited back but i would go so some of these guys have got the invitation and maybe they went

00:36:56.520 and they spoke boldly but at a practical level if we're going to link arms oh he's our guy wait a

00:37:01.580 second this guy hates christ and need to be honest with it i'm partnering with him i'm a christian

00:37:07.660 and he hates Christ and I'm still doing it.

00:37:10.280 So just be honest.

00:37:11.660 And again, that's not hard feelings,

00:37:13.340 but just, yep, I recognize that that's the case

00:37:15.820 and I'm choosing to partner with him.

00:37:18.140 That's what I'm going to do.

00:37:19.240 Be honest.

00:37:19.980 Be honest.

00:37:20.820 Well said.

00:37:21.280 Let's go to our last commercial break

00:37:23.200 and then we'll be right back with some concluding thoughts.

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00:40:30.760 All right.

00:40:32.100 Well, we talked about this a couple weeks ago.

00:40:33.740 But there's a battle right now trying to say who has control of the right wing.

00:40:38.080 I think of the New York Times article even talking about Nick Fuentes, the Guardian article that was talking about Nat Khan.

00:40:44.460 And right now you have a struggle.

00:40:45.600 You have MAGA, and that's Trump, and that's Vance, and that's for better or worse.

00:40:49.060 That's what MAGA is.

00:40:50.140 Trump is kind of at the end of his term.

00:40:51.760 He's not going to run again.

00:40:53.120 He's getting old.

00:40:53.780 So MAGA is what it is.

00:40:55.320 But they have a quickly emerging group of young men that are to the right of them.

00:40:59.380 And Nat Khan does very much so seem like the containment strategy.

00:41:02.820 They're recognizing MAGA isn't the movement that it was anymore,

00:41:05.520 that the next stage of candidates, that are people that are going to be running,

00:41:08.640 this is local and federal, they're going to be more to the right.

00:41:11.840 And so NatCon seems like the containment strategy to kind of bring them in.

00:41:15.720 And so I'm interested, what are your thoughts on what happens with,

00:41:18.500 you're talking about at this point, millions of young men

00:41:21.880 that are getting more and more radicalized.

00:41:24.360 Millions of men that are now middle-aged.

00:41:26.100 I'm a millennial, you're a millennial.

00:41:27.920 They're accruing power. They have money. 0.93

00:41:30.060 They want to see certain things happening.

00:41:31.360 so they're they're getting a lot of traction and you could see these different attempts one way or

00:41:35.700 another uh well we'll go to israel so you so you don't repeat this narrative or or come to natcon

00:41:40.500 we'll get you hooked up with some judeo-christianity i mean national conservatism what do you think

00:41:44.940 kind of is the play and are they able to contain this growing movement no i don't think so um i

00:41:50.740 think that the cat is out of the bag uh when it comes to america's relationship with israel and

00:41:56.700 also theologically when it comes to things like dispensationalism i mean uh if anyone deserves

00:42:03.420 credit i you know it was an unlikely um individual but tucker carlson laid dispensationalism in its

00:42:11.180 grave in that interview with ted cruz tel aviv ted not that long ago people young people pretty

00:42:18.460 much everybody under the age of 45 is pretty much done with israel and they're done with judeo

00:42:24.300 Christianity. And, uh, no, I don't think that you're going to be able to, uh, to curb their

00:42:30.500 enthusiasm. Um, and so I think that that's some of the attempts that we're seeing right now.

00:42:35.360 Um, but no, I think that it's inevitable. I think it's just a matter of time, um, that as young

00:42:40.900 people get older and like you said, as they accrue, um, influence and power and money and

00:42:46.000 status and all those kinds of things, and they become, you know, the, the leaders of tomorrow.

00:42:50.040 So I think that the gravy train for Israel is coming to a screeching halt.

00:42:57.480 And I think that Israel is very much aware of this, very much aware of this,

00:43:01.940 and is actively doing PR in real time, trying to hedge the tide.

00:43:10.960 But I don't think it will be successful.

00:43:13.980 Yeah.

00:43:14.340 In many ways, you've kind of referenced it before,

00:43:16.580 but NatCon may be in a sense the final boss, not that we're opposed to everyone that ever

00:43:20.600 has stood on the stage. Of course not. But there very much so may be that last kind of halfway

00:43:24.420 house between what would be a true, I would hope, Christian right-wing movement that looks to

00:43:30.100 restore traditional values, a Christian sense of culture and everything like that. NatCon may be

00:43:34.940 the final stop. Like even listen to this again from Senator Eric Schmidt. This is on immigration

00:43:39.300 and you don't know how long we fought to get this rhetoric coming from Congress. He said this,

00:43:45.440 For decades, we have heard that so-called high-skilled immigration was an urgent necessity.

00:43:49.680 The H-1B visa, for example, was sold as a way to keep America, quote, globally competitive,

00:43:54.960 close quote. Of course, we do not have an interest in attracting the truly, we do have an interest

00:43:59.180 in attracting the truly exceptional few, the very best and brightest in the world. But that's not

00:44:03.940 how programs like the H-1B have actually functioned. Instead, they've imported a vast new labor force

00:44:09.360 from abroad, not to fill jobs Americans can't or won't do, but to undercut American wages,

00:44:14.200 replace American workers, and transfer entire industries into the hands of foreign lobbies.

00:44:19.820 Agreed.

00:44:20.240 U.S. senators.

00:44:21.200 Yeah.

00:44:21.500 They're touting our values.

00:44:22.980 They're speaking our language.

00:44:24.180 And there's one kind of final thing.

00:44:26.860 Catholics, Jews, Protestants, one of these doesn't belong.

00:44:31.600 One of them does not belong.

00:44:33.220 Right.

00:44:33.600 Yep.

00:44:34.360 So there's a lot of good things that are coming out of NatCon.

00:44:37.620 But that is a concern.

00:44:39.160 You've heard it here from us.

00:44:40.980 That is our concern.

00:44:42.080 That is our prayer, that the Lord would purify the generation of leaders that are emerging on the scene, tomorrow's leaders in our country, future politicians, future business owners.

00:44:56.160 We're praying that they would be distinctly Christian and that they would not compromise with Judaism, that it would not be the hyphenated heresy, that it would not be Judeo-Christianity, but it really would be Christian nationalism.

00:45:09.640 And I am concerned that there are some individuals that are nationalists, to be sure, but they are attempting to ensure, ultimately, a Judeo-Christian nationalism, for which I have no interest.

00:45:26.380 I want it to be explicitly and unapologetically the Lord Jesus Christ.

00:45:32.520 I want it to be Christian nationalism.

00:45:34.520 So that's the episode for today.

00:45:36.340 We hope that you guys have been blessed by it.

00:45:38.700 And Lord willing, we will see you guys next week.

The NXR Podcast - September 12, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - NatCon 2025 ｜ Muslims, Catholics, & Jews

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