The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Pope Francis Is Dead - Catholicism Is At A Crossroads

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00:00:26.840 this morning pope francis the 266th pope of the roman catholic church died francis was the first

00:00:38.100 pope from the society of the jesuits and the first that was born outside of europe since the eighth

00:00:44.380 century since being elected in 2013 his time as pope was marked by a strong humanitarian agenda

00:00:52.980 with an emphasis on climate change, opposition to the death penalty, advocacy for decriminalization

00:01:00.740 of homosexuality, and criticism of anti-immigration policies. He was heavily

00:01:07.140 criticized throughout his time by conservatives both inside and outside the Catholic Church

00:01:13.140 for policies and statements that seemed at odds with the historic and traditional teachings

00:01:18.700 of the church on marriage, homosexuality, immigration, and the death penalty. But now,

00:01:25.840 with Francis's passing, a new pope will be elected. Roman Catholicism is still the largest

00:01:32.340 Christian tradition, numbering 1.4 billion adherents to Protestantism's roughly 800 million.

00:01:40.260 It holds massive amounts of land, over 150 million acres worldwide, and billions of dollars in real

00:01:48.180 estate stocks and bonds in short roman catholicism is not going anywhere but even with all of its

00:01:56.600 assets it still sits in a precarious position the young members of the roman catholic church

00:02:03.020 are shockingly conservative according to the new york times in 2024 and i quote in an era of deep

00:02:11.940 divisions in the church. Newly ordained Roman Catholic priests overwhelmingly lean right in

00:02:18.400 their theology, practices, and politics. Local dioceses are bursting at the seams with young 0.97

00:02:26.180 families and conservative men who are fed up with modernity and uninterested in a rock concert at

00:02:33.500 their local megachurch. This episode is brought to you by our premier sponsors Armored Republic

00:02:40.120 and Reese Fund, as well as our Patreon members and our faithful donors. You can join our Patreon

00:02:46.900 by going to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries, or you can donate by going

00:02:53.560 to right response ministries.com forward slash donate. So what will the next Pope do? Will he

00:03:01.580 attempt to reform the church from the inroads that liberalism has made? Imagine what would

00:03:07.700 happen with a pope open to revisiting things such as vatican ii and the council of trent

00:03:13.340 the fate of the west especially europe which is more catholic than protestant

00:03:18.820 may be hanging in the balance join us now as we discuss

00:03:23.500 good afternoon gentlemen ga it's uh it's a monday it's funny uh this episode

00:03:37.680 so the pope passed this morning that's what we'll be talking about i remember it would have been

00:03:41.940 about a year and four months ago we were just preparing to actually start the live stream

00:03:45.720 and it was the time when the pope had i think was in that december december of 2023 that the pope

00:03:50.620 had actually given his kind of approval it's very it was very convoluted i remember a lot of catholic

00:03:55.420 commentators and apologists they weren't kind of sure what to do with it but just a year and four

00:03:59.840 months ago the pope was saying like hey uh blessings can be given he specified the individuals

00:04:04.780 that were within same-sex union, so it's not certainly allowing marriage of same-sex couples,

00:04:09.720 it's not even blessing necessarily their union, but it's a blessing on the individuals within it.

00:04:14.860 And really, that's a microcosm of Francis's legacy. You heard it a little bit in the cold open,

00:04:19.640 but he was radically progressive compared to all previous popes. And in many ways,

00:04:24.560 I was talking with Michael beforehand, you have to kind of feel that he was always going to be

00:04:28.800 that. He was elected in 2013, so we're talking about the end, the close of the Obama administration.

00:04:34.780 those last couple years there. Then you had Trump's four terms, but really the resistance

00:04:39.800 and especially social justice. I mean, 2016, 2017, 2018 really picked up and hit its zenith in the

00:04:47.100 2020s. And that's the majority of Francis's time. And so he's really an image in many ways of what

00:04:52.800 the West was all doing during about those 12 years that he was Pope since retiring of the Pope that

00:04:58.140 was before him. But this is a big deal. Like the Pope is not a four-year term, and it's not

00:05:04.300 democratically elected. The Pope could be in the position that he's in for decades and decades and

00:05:10.340 decades on end. And as we saw in the last 12 years with Francis as Pope, he pushed the Catholic 0.68

00:05:16.220 Church as much as he could towards the acceptance of theological liberalism, of political progressive

00:05:21.920 causes. He really did a lot of damage. Yeah, one of the cardinals who's on the

00:05:27.960 the list as it were of cardinals who have a viable shot of being elected is 66 which to us you know

00:05:36.260 that sounds pretty old but that would be the youngest pope ever if he were elected and that

00:05:40.880 would likely mean to your point wes um three four decades possibly uh maybe three two or three

00:05:46.720 decades of of um him ruling the catholic church leading the catholic church so yeah it is a big

00:05:51.940 deal certainly it is and catholicism will probably not only has it already lasted longer

00:05:57.840 but it will probably continue to outlast not just different organizations or religions or sects,

00:06:03.500 but nations themselves, in large part because it's not democratic.

00:06:09.460 Catholicism has been around a lot longer than these United States

00:06:13.000 and probably will also outlive these United States, 0.95

00:06:16.120 which is in many ways, as an American, tragic.

00:06:19.980 But Catholicism, for all the things that I despise and disagree with, 0.87

00:06:23.820 um catholicism roman catholicism is not um utterly retarded um i mean that you have to like 0.99

00:06:34.160 it takes a particularly ignorant person or in many cases downright malicious sinister and wicked 0.90

00:06:41.280 to push for a true raw democracy and universal give the people what they want open the borders 0.99

00:06:51.160 bring in uh the dregs of of global society uh flood of third worlders and and before even 0.99

00:06:59.500 attaining citizenship push on liberal blue cities in certain states to allow for voting 0.98

00:07:05.020 even in federal elections i mean that's what you do when you want to kill a nation and uh catholicism

00:07:12.780 despite the many things that we would disagree with um doesn't seem to be suicidal in the way

00:07:18.420 that most western nations are europe wants to die right america kind of wants to die not quite as

00:07:26.700 much as england maybe you know like but these nations but catholicism is behaving right it's

00:07:33.240 behaving as something that wants to actually maintain longevity and has the advantage of

00:07:37.660 being transnational in that it's not limited to a locale or region that can share bishops and

00:07:42.100 share resources capital land all these different things like if the united states just imploded

00:07:47.040 the PCA, the Presbyterian Church in America, it just simply wouldn't exist. But if the United

00:07:52.540 States imploded tomorrow, Roman Catholicism, its center is actually Europe. And so it would 0.99

00:07:56.860 continue and have an effect into the next millennium. Michael? Well, I was talking with

00:08:01.820 some guys this morning, and we were commenting on how some of the projects that the Catholic

00:08:06.280 Church has undertaken, like the Grand Cathedrals, actually were started in one nation or political

00:08:13.340 body. And by the time it was done, it was a different political body. And yet the church's

00:08:18.880 presence, you know, it remained there. So that's Francis's legacy. There's a lot of stories. It's

00:08:26.720 really incredible. I think of one where a little boy went up to Francis and he asked about his

00:08:32.080 father who was an atheist. And Francis seemed to give off the impression that he would be in heaven.

00:08:37.220 He also spoke of Muslims being our brothers. And it was a very confusing type of rhetoric. What

00:08:42.940 Francis did and what he was kind of known for is he really tried to avoid ideology. So we were

00:08:47.700 talking earlier about the buckets before we started. You have liberalism or progressivism

00:08:51.560 and you have conservatism or tradition or right wing. And Francis really did his best to try to

00:08:56.280 kind of avoid those buckets. But what it led to was a lot of actual confusion. I mentioned those

00:09:00.740 Catholic apologists, he would say something and they'd be there and be like, well, I got to defend

00:09:04.960 him. He's the Pope, unless you would be like Mel Gibson, which you would say he's an anti-Pope and

00:09:08.560 a false Pope. But majority of Catholics didn't think that. Good old Mel, huh? Good old Mel.

00:09:12.640 I saw on X today a lot of people saying, hey, hear me out.

00:09:16.520 Picture of Mel Gibson wearing the little hat.

00:09:19.620 And I was like, hey, you know what?

00:09:21.720 I could get behind that.

00:09:23.220 It is technically possible for the College of Cardinals to vote outside of the, yes,

00:09:29.180 that was Pope Urban.

00:09:30.360 That's how he became the Pope.

00:09:31.800 He was not a cardinal at the time, and he was voted to be the Pope.

00:09:35.440 Wow.

00:09:36.020 I actually, I feel like I saw this movie.

00:09:37.880 It was called Conclave just a couple months ago.

00:09:40.280 We literally watched it, yeah.

00:09:41.340 Which is fascinating.

00:09:42.160 It was actually a really good movie.

00:09:43.920 It was.

00:09:44.820 Do you want to hear what happened in it?

00:09:46.300 So if you want to watch the movie, don't listen to the next two minutes.

00:09:49.020 Yeah, this will be a spoiler, so feel free to skip this part.

00:09:50.720 But it's very, very instructive, I think, of kind of a type of the times.

00:09:55.100 So in Conclave, the Pope dies, and the Cardinals have to come together.

00:09:59.280 It's about 130 of them, and they're actually locked in.

00:10:01.800 This is how the next Pope will be chosen.

00:10:03.060 Which is actually how it happens.

00:10:04.580 Yes, this is actually how it happens.

00:10:05.920 They're locked into a building.

00:10:07.880 It really kind of is.

00:10:09.060 It's funny.

00:10:09.340 The smoke's sending up through the chimney.

00:10:10.900 The whole world is watching.

00:10:12.160 They had to set up the laser blockers so that no audio could be picked up.

00:10:18.440 But there's no internet inside, no phones, no smarts.

00:10:21.620 So it's like nobody can mess with these guys until a decision is made.

00:10:24.440 And they have to stay in there until they make the decision.

00:10:26.200 That's right. 0.99

00:10:26.660 You could take 130 Baptists, lock them in the room and say, 1.00

00:10:29.800 you have to choose the color of the carpet. 1.00

00:10:32.340 They would die in there. 0.99

00:10:34.040 That would literally be the end of the Baptist nomination. 0.96

00:10:35.360 We've been looking for smoke for 15 years.

00:10:38.360 Nothing to be found.

00:10:39.880 So the cardinals are gathered together.

00:10:41.880 15 minutes they'd be like where's where's the potluck right where's the potluck they're at each

00:10:46.180 other's throats right but no the way the next pope will be chosen is the cardinals will come in

00:10:49.720 they'll be locked in it's called a conclave and they will issue votes again and again and again

00:10:54.460 and again and in this movie conclave a couple months ago it came out there's two factions as

00:10:58.700 you'd imagine there's a more traditional and conservative and this one's actually represented

00:11:02.180 by africa and so there's a pope from africa that's very hard line on things like we talked

00:11:07.040 about like homosexuality and marriage and women serving as priests and there's a more progressive

00:11:11.400 side but you'll kind of notice right now like the vibe shift is in it's tough to tell which one's

00:11:16.480 winning like one has a lot of momentum so that progressive side certainly they have institutions

00:11:20.540 they have capital they have money but i don't know as of maybe a year ago that they would

00:11:24.720 necessarily be the one with all of the momentum all of the power all of the voting block and so

00:11:29.660 in that movie you had the two sides they're back and forth and there's this dark horse candidate

00:11:33.600 cardinal that only came in under the pope's orders at the very last minute in the movie last minute

00:11:38.280 to join the conclave so you have the two sides warring which is i'm sure what's going to happen

00:11:42.200 super duper lib super duper lib yeah it's going to be like 15 20 days like guys the pope is not

00:11:47.780 going to be chosen like next year right like in about a month yeah and i honestly think this will

00:11:51.460 be a referendum on all the things that are going on right now i don't know well it'll be a statement

00:11:58.100 about it right it'll be a statement it'll be a dig in what's in the air yes i think i think for

00:12:05.040 many catholics they're like no we're like we're done with this we don't we don't want another

00:12:10.280 pope francis but unfortunately it's like there's been quite a while now at this point for

00:12:16.160 the pope and and others to kind of stack the deck in terms of selecting cardinals and all

00:12:22.120 these different things like we have a comment for cosmic treason so the pope has stacked the college

00:12:26.460 of cardinals with lefties so the next pope will almost absolutely be he's made about 80 percent

00:12:32.660 of the appointments that will actually come in and vote yeah but watch what happens in this movie

00:12:36.560 so you have the two sides are debating if this dark horse candidate that's very he seems very

00:12:41.100 compassionate initially not even a candidate initially but he rises from between the two

00:12:45.340 sides and at the very end of the movie the the main cardinal there he's not considered for pope

00:12:49.860 but he's elected this dark horse candidate and he says what was this why did the pope bring you in

00:12:55.360 and what was this one surgery that he tried to hide right the man actually revealed that he'd

00:13:00.000 been born as a woman and this was someone that had just been elected pope and you can see in his face

00:13:05.280 this cardinal that's leading the proceedings that has just elected this person what do we do because

00:13:11.940 we've made the claim that god and the holy spirit like this is his visible institution here on earth

00:13:16.720 and we just elected something that goes against everything that we've taught and thought and

00:13:22.300 understood for a long long time so it's a great movie to check it out if you watch it that's

00:13:27.620 undoubtedly what's going to happen here just in a couple weeks when they come together to pick

00:13:31.260 another pope and um i i really feel like europe like our title is what if we got a based pope

00:13:38.820 maybe not not us we're protestants right but what if guys they are the biggest denomination

00:13:44.300 biggest tradition in the world yeah 1.4 billion adherents they have a lot of land and a lot of

00:13:49.680 capital and they they are the majority in europe like you think about where the ground war is right

00:13:54.800 now like in many ways like europe is i mean on the on the ropes so to speak holding the last bit

00:14:01.700 of the beachhead and you're talking about are we just going to continue this is the church going

00:14:06.720 to put up no resistance is nothing going to happen or will someone come in this is cardinal

00:14:11.580 robert sarah woman's last name but it is a man i'm very sure he's a cardinal from africa okay

00:14:18.280 said this those who use the bible to justify mass immigration are bewitched amen he's about

00:14:25.580 pulling at about four percent on polymarket right now so i can't believe we even have

00:14:29.880 polymarket betting odds yeah where is he from uh africa yeah okay yep yep so we'll see it's

00:14:39.700 quite a conundrum for all the liberals are like oh on the one hand he's black right but on the

00:14:45.020 other hand he's based he's based and conservative yeah so i mean that was the same thing with

00:14:51.280 united methodists for several years like the united methodists was kind of just right there

00:14:55.620 on the brink almost going to a point of you know embracing liberalism to the point of of true

00:15:01.400 apostasy and turning this back like no longer being christian um but uh but what was holding 0.97

00:15:06.840 it back was a bunch of uh because it was a global denomination it was a bunch of africans right you

00:15:11.940 know in south americans that were you know more traditional it was a bunch of you know united

00:15:15.840 methodists in uganda who were like no we're not gay why are you gay you know like what are you

00:15:20.800 thinking we're not yeah we're not doing that you know but then eventually you know they the liberals

00:15:26.060 won and and at this point i would say that the lampstand of you know united method has been

00:15:31.420 removed by christ i would no longer even consider it to be christian you're gonna say something

00:15:36.860 michael i was gonna say so imagine and i know it's a long shot surah but imagine he gets elected

00:15:43.420 the popes always choose a new i guess not a christening name but a new name to adopt pope

00:15:50.920 based no no no well essentially yes pope urban he's the one that called for the first crusade

00:15:57.560 so there we go maybe that would never that would never happen that would never happen that'd be

00:16:01.860 But as much as we love the West and love Europe, like you look at the growth of the Roman Catholic

00:16:08.940 Church, for instance, it is largely for every denomination you're looking at.

00:16:12.960 This is in Protestantism.

00:16:14.020 This is in Catholicism. 0.99

00:16:15.580 It really has been Africa.

00:16:17.720 Honestly, the place of growth, and I understand that we're talking about millions and millions

00:16:21.540 of conversions in Africa, just like anywhere, we would have to actually see what those conversions

00:16:25.960 actually look like.

00:16:26.820 But it has been the place that has been growing the most.

00:16:30.180 And then it's fielding guys like this, the United Methodist Church, for all of their faults, the churches in Africa, like you were just saying.

00:16:36.840 Hey, we don't want anything to do with this American business, and they'll last longer.

00:16:41.460 They will. 0.89

00:16:41.760 We talked about this, this would probably be close to a year ago now, but as churches embrace, for example, women pastors and embracing of homosexual unions, they literally, like, lose people. 0.65

00:16:53.100 Like, those churches are not filled with children. 0.51

00:16:55.440 Those churches are not filled with families.

00:16:56.940 Like, it's a raw matter of statistical certainty.

00:17:00.180 from what i'm hearing this uh this past sunday uh was like a record for years and years for the

00:17:07.060 easter mass for yeah it was like record attendance um many churches not just oh around catholics but

00:17:13.940 but especially those who are not sick with a stomach bug but that's fair so yeah my family

00:17:18.500 was out with a stomach bug i was there by god's grace but my kids man that was that was a heck of

00:17:23.540 a bug well there's guys in our group chats and stuff like states away they're like man i got

00:17:27.140 got hit with food poisoning i think it's like no it's not food poisoning i wish it was and this

00:17:31.300 was not some 24 48 hour thing this is literally like a week i forget what it's called like some

00:17:35.420 kind of it's like a rotavirus or some sort yeah norovirus norovirus yeah but it's like on average

00:17:41.260 like four to seven days waxing and waning with fever and just constant diarrhea and throw up so

00:17:47.000 anyways that's neither here nor there uh so that easter was still great but that's the point easter

00:17:51.280 was great but here's the point um if you didn't have that the numbers would have been even higher

00:17:55.540 so it's a little bit worth you know throwing that into the mix um but my point is uh it wasn't just

00:18:00.320 roman catholicism it was like across the board there was just like people are going back to church

00:18:05.360 but i but i think it's unhelpful though if we just say people are going back to church across

00:18:10.040 the board you know and and uh you know a record attendance for you know um for the independent

00:18:17.100 fundamental baptist church down the street you know and for the roman catholic church and for

00:18:21.260 the eo church like um it was record for a kind of across the board but not uh but not equally

00:18:28.560 yeah um roman catholicism had a ton from what i'm hearing like a like crazy numbers well they

00:18:35.960 have out the number of people in england yep the number of people who were confirmed uh officially

00:18:41.520 confirmed this past sunday yesterday um and baptized into the roman catholic church so like

00:18:46.400 they they were you know they weren't baptized as infants they weren't you know culturally catholic

00:18:50.420 their parents were never catholic like coming in for the first time um to the roman catholic

00:18:55.720 church uh are off the charts those numbers were just blew people away and um yeah so that's

00:19:02.700 pretty remarkable and uh and eastern orthodoxy is also certainly on the rise but it can't you

00:19:08.500 know in america it's it's uh it may even be it may even be growing uh more quickly in terms of

00:19:15.160 you know rate of attrition growing more quickly than roman catholicism in america

00:19:18.820 both of those eo in america and rc in america um but it's so far behind roman catholicism in

00:19:26.340 america starting uh with you know much smaller numbers and in large part because um it's eastern

00:19:32.000 yep and uh we're we're western yeah i'm gonna dig into some of the statistics statistics about the

00:19:37.640 growth of catholic church specifically how conservative they are got some great numbers

00:19:41.100 on the priest but as we close out the segment head to our commercial break we'll get into that

00:19:44.620 next cosmic trees and real quick he's just man he's like let me tell you about cardinals now let

00:19:49.380 me tell you about neurovirus they can live in hand sanitizer do not use refills use a new one

00:19:56.700 every time every single time new one or use a different method of sanitizer you know do you

00:20:02.360 know where it can't live either that's probably why you and i didn't get sexual nicotine nicotine

00:20:06.120 amen god bless i mean literally me and you are sitting here like no rough time out there like

00:20:10.300 i've been holding and i dude there was one night like two nights ago where and it was it was tragic

00:20:16.380 but my wife was you know we have a newborn and she got it too it was very sad um not a newborn

00:20:20.900 that's not fair she's five months at this point but still tiny and she's and she's she's just

00:20:25.880 pretty small right um but but our son franklin who's two he like he had it the worst yeah and

00:20:33.020 so i'm holding him and he's just it's the middle of the night it's like 3 a.m and mabel's crying

00:20:37.960 um our our youngest and so mom is helping mabel and coming in and i'm just holding franklin and

00:20:43.420 it's just like i it was literally like i was taking a shower he's over my shoulder right i'm

00:20:47.280 holding and i'm standing you know standing up waiting for mom to pacify you know baby so that

00:20:52.760 she can come and grab me a towel and help me a little bit but i'm trying to hold him still

00:20:56.900 because i don't want to agitate him he's having a hard time already and i'm just being just waves

00:21:02.520 of vomit just flowing down my back into my pants i mean it was it was absolutely terrible absolutely

00:21:10.120 but here's the thing this is the point right the point of this show is you know we're talking about

00:21:14.440 the pope but a quick plug for nicotine which is a miracle drug and god god god made it um i'm

00:21:22.400 literally being showered by by vomit for this last week i have five kids all of them all of them so

00:21:27.560 we're talking like multiple we're talking multiple streams just streams flowing i might as well be

00:21:32.320 swimming in it and here i am on the podcast doing great why how because uh of just sheer will and

00:21:41.640 discipline with my regiment your great diet i actually do have a pretty good diet because of

00:21:46.280 my wife but it doesn't have because of my wife it doesn't have what it doesn't have raw milk

00:21:49.700 i do have raw milk oh you do yes oh that's all we drink is raw milk do you uh well i i'll eat

00:21:56.880 cereal in the middle of the night uh but to be fair this diet piece and that's where i'm getting

00:22:03.120 my raw milk ingestion i love it but this cereal my wife is very particular and it's like it only

00:22:08.460 has four ingredients which i don't know what they are it's a little bit of cinnamon all right but

00:22:12.580 other than that it's like wheat i don't know it's something it's something that like even if you're

00:22:16.660 gluten-free you can eat it's a really really healthy cereal and she has to like specially

00:22:19.960 order it so anyways my diet is not that not bad but there we go but here's my point i'm i'm not

00:22:24.780 nearly as disciplined as i should be you know with some other things it would be good for my

00:22:28.000 health but dude you pop in you pop in a nicotine pouch superman and testosterone goes up all of a

00:22:36.760 sudden you can swim through rivers of vomit without being sick like i'm like little antiviral

00:22:41.420 properties like that you it really has like oh well i'm already really focused with my job

00:22:45.400 sir my brother in christ uh you pop in a nicotine pouch and you will be promoted by the end of the

00:22:51.800 week um don't don't stop at one either that's true if you're starting so anyways it really is

00:22:57.800 a miraculous thing okay but on the pope before the close of this segment even if you're protestant

00:23:02.400 even if you are eastern orthodoxy it is worth praying in these next couple weeks that god in

00:23:07.520 his kindness would give a pope to the catholic church regardless of what you think of him

00:23:11.720 one that stands firm on biblical sexuality right that is one of the issues of the day

00:23:15.900 and mass immigration immigration those two there will be for sure differences and this and that

00:23:21.480 or the other but if on those two by god's grace he can give a pope to the catholic church regardless

00:23:26.660 of what you think of it that holds strong on those it is going to have a benefit we literally

00:23:31.400 just got a super chat from someone who said pope francis yeah drove me from the faith and i'm only

00:23:36.360 now coming back in we'll read that one for in its entirety read out the name thank them for that

00:23:40.720 later there are millions and millions of people that pope francis over his last 12 years no he

00:23:45.960 drove away from the church and in god's kindness and other things of course we would want to change

00:23:50.960 too but in god's kindness a good pope and a godly man who stands firm on what god's word says would

00:23:57.600 do an incredible work especially in the west to bring a lot of them back and just for the record

00:24:02.980 for our listeners look we're protestants okay we're aware because when west i can just hear

00:24:08.040 the devil's advocate when west says like someone who stands on god's word and i'm just thinking of

00:24:11.900 like i'm thinking of all these products and i said there's things to be right i mean all you know all

00:24:16.400 our primary audience is protestants we love the reformers we're not you know none of that's a

00:24:21.600 secret everybody knows that we like john calvin we like luther we like you know um and we all know

00:24:26.200 what they had to say about the pope you know and so when west says not the biggest fans if we could

00:24:29.980 have a better pope who stands on the word of god i know that from our protestant base which is

00:24:34.020 probably at least 50 over 50 percent of our listeners they would be saying like there's no

00:24:38.300 such thing as a roman catholic you know pope who stands on god's word what we mean by that though

00:24:43.760 is somebody who at least is not trying

00:24:48.080 to eradicate the white race in all of Europe

00:24:53.060 by flooding the countries. 1.00

00:24:55.060 Those two issues.

00:24:56.160 Like just those two, exactly.

00:24:57.520 The West is saying stands on the word of God

00:24:59.180 in those two issues.

00:25:00.820 Of course, we have our disagreements about soteriology.

00:25:03.260 We actually, for the most part,

00:25:05.640 Roman Catholics are great on the Trinity.

00:25:07.700 Yeah, right. 1.00

00:25:08.700 Coming from Aquinas, yeah.

00:25:10.080 Yeah, I have exactly because of Aquinas.

00:25:11.680 yeah so i have way more differences with uh various protestants when it comes to you know

00:25:16.460 doctrine of god theology proper but on soteriology we have we have some big differences with uh roman

00:25:22.440 catholics um but man if we could get a based roman catholic pope who would stop destroying the west

00:25:30.100 politically culturally and and physically literally like ending bloodlines um that would

00:25:37.780 be a benefit to the entire world when you have time and you survive you can actually sit down

00:25:43.160 and have these conversations correct when you're in the midst of war you just simply the goal is

00:25:47.420 to finish it to finish it quickly that's right and then get out of it right and you work those

00:25:50.900 differences out when you get out of it it's not we made it the west is saved let's just sit back

00:25:55.140 like no we we what is america are we protestant are we those are conversations to be had but guys

00:26:00.260 we have to win first we have to survive right the next couple of decades absolutely yes like well

00:26:05.900 i'm going to have another debate with a roman catholic you know on on soteriology and this

00:26:11.780 and that and council you know of trent um but meanwhile um like all of europe is literally 0.72

00:26:20.060 being destroyed by muslims right um whether it's what's his name kier parson or uh kier starmer 0.89

00:26:26.780 starmer yeah kier starmer yeah who's jewish classic his wife is jewish but he's adopted 0.98

00:26:32.340 the religion he's adopted it yeah right uh but you know like it's been said i know i understand

00:26:37.560 that some people say take offense at this and say it's anti-semitic but i just i don't know

00:26:41.340 my call like i see it um i do think that like islam for the for the record everybody who's 0.82

00:26:46.320 like anti-israel they're like you know uh we need to partner with you know islamic terrorists you 0.97

00:26:51.740 know to go against zionism and like no that's that's stupid uh we have been christians right 0.99

00:26:57.800 duke gregory and charlemagne and king alfred and all all these different things um the crusader 0.99

00:27:05.960 they would roll over in the grave if they heard you say that like we're going to partner with our 0.96

00:27:09.280 true allies who are the islamists you know like no united together against islam is a formidable 0.89

00:27:14.800 enemy of the church and has been for centuries and centuries and centuries however i do not not

00:27:22.720 entirely i would have some caveats but i do in a general sense agree with the sentiment

00:27:26.900 that islam is the broom of judaism i do think that there's some level of not all jews but

00:27:36.120 particular jews in positions of political power in the west outside of israel not their own country 0.91

00:27:42.420 but in our country or in england or this or that and opening the door to muslims to come 0.99

00:27:47.520 and ravage the nation so i see muslims not as our friends but doing this destroying nations but i 0.98

00:27:53.940 see jews holding open the door that happened literally at certain points in the crusades 1.00

00:27:58.300 they opened up the gates to the muslim invaders literally literally so all right our first 1.00

00:28:03.240 commercial break and we'll be right back our sponsor private family banking wants to help 1.00

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00:29:09.180 America is a country that was founded for the purpose of allowing Christians to do their duty

00:29:12.560 before God and not to have their consciences ruled by the doctrines and commandments of men.

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00:29:42.560 all right we're back welcome back i'm going to read here from a new york times article this is

00:29:50.500 in 2024 and really parse out where there's kind of two sides of the debate and really it's

00:29:55.800 the millions and millions of people billions who hang in the balance as you kind of see the rising

00:30:00.920 of a lot of people that are done with modernity they were going to go back to tradition and so

00:30:04.880 you have that rising and the question is with this next pope will it be enough to stem the tide and

00:30:09.040 So I'm going to read this is by Ruth Graham, New York Times, 2024.

00:30:12.900 The title of the article is America's New Catholic Priests, Young, Confident, and Conservative.

00:30:19.160 And I thought these statistics were pretty incredible.

00:30:21.460 So a little bit down in the article, she says this.

00:30:23.340 More than 80% of priests ordained since 2020, so this was in the last four years prior to the article,

00:30:29.480 describe themselves as conservative slash orthodox or very conservative slash orthodox,

00:30:34.460 according to a nationally representative survey of 3,500 priests

00:30:37.840 public by the Catholic Project at the Catholic University of America.

00:30:41.800 80% of incoming priests that had been ordained in the last four years,

00:30:47.000 over 80% of them said, I am theologically conservative,

00:30:49.780 if not very theologically conservative.

00:30:51.440 Which is incredibly encouraging.

00:30:52.640 Real quick, Defiant Baptist had something insightful in the chat.

00:30:55.820 He said, hit the like button or you'll become a transgender pope. 0.73

00:30:58.820 I don't make the rules. 0.98

00:31:00.020 There's a real risk.

00:31:01.000 There's a real risk.

00:31:01.740 It's happening out there.

00:31:02.040 Like, we're not going to, like, I'm not going to sit here and pull the wool over your eyes

00:31:04.920 and say that, like, 100% chance that that happens, but it's not a 0% chance.

00:31:09.540 If you don't like this video, yeah, if you don't like this video and share it,

00:31:13.460 there is, it may be a slight chance, but I think that we can say there is a chance 0.90

00:31:16.980 you will become a transgender pope.

00:31:18.740 So you better be liking this video and sharing it. 0.95

00:31:21.080 Go ahead.

00:31:21.360 All right, continuing on. 0.99

00:31:22.680 Foreign-born priests in the United States, so that would be priests in the United States

00:31:25.680 who were born elsewhere, a significant presence as ordination rates remain below replacement

00:31:29.760 levels are less conservative theologically than their american-born peers but still not a single

00:31:35.440 surveyed priest so 3 500 priests who were ordained after 2020 described themselves as very progressive

00:31:42.640 not a single one of this incoming class said i am very progressive politically the trend is similar

00:31:48.500 with almost all priests ordained in 2020 or later in the roman catholic church describing themselves

00:31:53.220 as moderate or conservative almost all of them i'm a moderate or i'm a conservative very few of them

00:31:59.240 progressive this represents this trend represents a sharp contrast with priests ordained in the

00:32:04.700 1960s about half of whom described themselves as politically liberal and an even greater share as

00:32:10.480 theologically progressive so in the 60s this trend was the exact opposite which makes a lot of sense

00:32:16.300 we've seen it's funny like almost every single chart i think there's actually a website and it's

00:32:20.360 what happened in 1972 because every single metric whether it's of christianity or quality of living

00:32:25.780 or cost of homes every single metric in 1972 like started going down literally every single one but

00:32:32.300 the 70s and the 80s were a time of great decline and that created the bedrock for what we now see

00:32:37.060 here today so in 1960 many of the priests were coming in they're like i'm progressive or i'm

00:32:41.960 liberal on my views and today it's the exact opposite with none of them claiming to be very

00:32:46.780 progressive at least theologically and the vast vast majority conservative or at the very least 0.78

00:32:51.980 moderate it can we make predictions let me give one final it's fun this isn't this is a white

00:32:57.360 pill it's monday but i'm giving you guys one early monday white pill in the near future in other

00:33:01.880 words the liberal catholic priest could essentially be extinct in the united states the shift towards

00:33:07.580 more uniform conservative puts a rising generation of priests increasingly at odds with secular

00:33:12.140 culture which has broadly moved up to the left on questions of gender sexuality reproductive issues

00:33:16.900 and roles for women yeah i mean you would think so it's an oxymoron a liberal catholic priest you

00:33:23.740 would think it would be extinct right there along unicorns and things like that now for the record

00:33:27.020 i think unicorns do exist but they exist in their proper context which is in hollow earth

00:33:31.600 get off get away get away from all the surface people and a liberal catholic priest he could

00:33:36.580 live down there in hollow earth too as far as i'm concerned but up here with us you know civilized

00:33:40.540 folk um yeah things that are oxymorons like jumbo shrimp and liberal catholic priest uh should be

00:33:47.560 extinct yeah all right predictions can we do that do it okay um i think right so this is one of the

00:33:55.140 things that you know southern baptists have always boasted of and and to be fair i i think that it's

00:33:59.340 um a legitimate boast there you know it's just pros and cons there it's not it's not all positive

00:34:05.060 there are weaknesses but um but you know when when you get a win you get a win and uh so for

00:34:11.060 southern baptist because of their polity um their their church polity um they you know it's it really

00:34:17.320 is the baptist in the pews uh they actually make a difference if they show up if every church sends

00:34:21.940 their messengers and what is it it's two messengers for every 100 or every 50 something

00:34:26.180 like that yes i don't william wolf will be watching this and he'll be like like the meme

00:34:29.920 with the kid whose veins bursting through his head he's like you should have me on the show

00:34:32.780 I mean, it's literally his life is to save the Southern Baptist Convention, which is amazing.

00:34:37.360 Hey, the convention's coming up in June here in Dallas.

00:34:39.480 So you need to be there, and you need to vote.

00:34:40.840 Reach out to Chase Davis.

00:34:42.200 Reach out to William Wolfe.

00:34:43.320 Reach out to Jeff Wright would be another one.

00:34:45.460 Reach out to Dusty Deavers.

00:34:46.940 Reach out to Nate Shulman.

00:34:48.840 Is he, he's SBC?

00:34:50.000 There's a lot of great guys.

00:34:51.060 Yep.

00:34:51.540 Josh Abattoi.

00:34:53.560 Yes.

00:34:53.760 A lot of guys who, they're perfectly aware that things aren't fantastic right now, but

00:34:58.840 they're just saying, look, here's the deal.

00:35:00.200 We need new institutions.

00:35:02.780 but whenever we have a chance let's try to save some old ones i mean you're talking about in the

00:35:07.740 case of uh southern baptists there's more southern baptists than there are roman catholics in america

00:35:12.580 it's the biggest denomination not just protestant but the biggest america is a protestant nation

00:35:18.100 it is europe is catholic majority right america is for sure the protestant experiment correct and

00:35:23.360 so in the case of southern baptists here in america you're talking about billions of dollars

00:35:27.900 of assets and all these things say billions of people and no not billions of people maybe on

00:35:31.960 maybe on the roster you know they're probably 47 000 churches but they've been losing membership

00:35:36.380 as they've been much softer on a lot of these issues so but anyways what i was going to say

00:35:40.980 is to boast of the southern baptists in their polity it is very much it's democracy i mean

00:35:46.060 it's it's a raw democracy and so every year you know the convention convenes you know and they

00:35:51.020 get together and they're voting on this and that and that and one of the big things is voting on

00:35:55.340 the president of the sbc which is very short term i think it's only two years two years yeah and

00:36:00.400 typically they're reelected so they'll do two years right and they're expected when they're

00:36:04.060 incumbent unless there's a scandal to be reelected again so about four yeah okay so two to four years

00:36:09.280 um but then they get to appoint um the uh the committee on committees right i mean that is

00:36:14.400 your quintessential baptist that's the most baptist that's the most baptist thing other than like

00:36:18.720 other than you know for us like uh what was it was maybe six months ago right that we had uh so many

00:36:24.540 uh so many crock pots plugged in for our uh our potluck after the the service that literally the

00:36:31.800 um we we broke um one of the breakers in our building and uh and the sound cut out and the

00:36:38.460 lights you know like went off and everything that's a pretty baptist thing here's t james

00:36:42.360 booney actually said how the sbc sends messengers okay each sbc church gets two messengers for the

00:36:47.140 base of your sbc and affiliated two messengers plus one for each one percent of their offerings

00:36:51.700 that they give the sbc entities for maximum of 12 if they give 10 of more size of congregation

00:36:56.980 is out of fact okay so thanks for the correction that's all thank you t james boone um so but the

00:37:01.880 point is if uh most of the messengers don't show up most there's there's what you said 47 000 sbc

00:37:07.940 churches um right like i mean you would so you would imagine at minimum two so from each of them

00:37:13.540 so 100 000 people yeah i can tell you there are not 100 000 people at the southern baptist

00:37:18.620 convention but if there were many southern baptist churches are absolutely sick of wokeness and

00:37:25.460 and liberalism and all these kinds of things uh they would show up and uh and absolutely dominate

00:37:30.340 and so here's the thing this is what i was going to say that's unique about their very democratic

00:37:34.780 polity within southern baptists um most i think pretty much all six of the flagship seminaries

00:37:42.500 southwestern and southern and all the southeastern midwest um they all they all went um very liberal

00:37:50.200 to the point where they were literally professors on the first day of class um who were you know 1.00

00:37:55.880 who were uh throwing like the bible in the trash and saying that jesus was the bastard son of a 0.99

00:38:02.260 whore um they were denying virgin birth they were denying bodily resurrection and the baptist in the 1.00

00:38:08.780 pews so that's that's your your elite you know leaders within the denomination um but the the 0.98

00:38:15.860 baptists in the pews when they heard about this they showed up and they fired uh they well they

00:38:22.060 re-elected um uh president of the sbc and all these different positions then those guys went

00:38:28.060 and fired all of these seminary presidents and then put in more conservative guys that's when

00:38:34.020 al moeller uh came in and uh and then they cleaned house and got rid of all these liberal professors

00:38:39.220 and it's one of the only cases where you've seen something go liberal something that size

00:38:44.300 it's different when it's like well my church was going a little liberal and then you know my church

00:38:48.460 of you know 40 people you know and then and then we became more conservative you're talking something

00:38:52.620 that 20 of those 40 left and then 20 more came in right so but when it's one of the only cases

00:38:58.460 was something of that magnitude that size that was uh drifting very clearly objectively drifting

00:39:05.140 liberal and came back and and went right uh rightward and so um so what i what i was saying

00:39:12.460 as this goes back to you know the pope and roman catholicism it's pros and cons um a lot of what

00:39:18.040 we're seeing um not just with christian denominations uh but but also with nations uh

00:39:23.880 political elections um in governments is we're seeing uh globally not just in america but globally

00:39:30.360 we're seeing the the rise of the populist right it's a populist movement whether it be el salvador

00:39:35.320 hungary um argentina uh the united states and all these like it's not just unique to trump i mean

00:39:42.260 trump is unique but um it's not just happening here so we're seeing in governments we're seeing

00:39:46.880 it in denominations we're seeing in countries around the world um this populist movement that

00:39:52.500 is pushing things back from from the brink of leftism back towards you know at least like a

00:39:59.680 center-right catholicism though because of its polity it moves slowly so i said pros and cons

00:40:06.220 the pro is i think there's more longevity and resilience over time right you can't just turn

00:40:12.040 on a dime um the polity doesn't allow for it um the con that's the pro right longevity stability

00:40:19.220 security um the the con though is that um catholicism which sadly um did did not remain

00:40:28.420 unscathed by liberalism but actually eventually followed suit just like every other institution

00:40:33.500 not quite to the same degree though not never ordained women pastors that's right and you never

00:40:38.040 see a price flag because so because it's not democratic because it's not universal suffrage

00:40:43.920 and all these you know ridiculous things um because of that because catholicism actually

00:40:49.560 believes in god's natural order things like hierarchy and it's not egalitarian in terms

00:40:54.360 of there are positions there's a ladder of authority these kinds of things um you know

00:40:58.280 because of that uh it showed the most resilience um however uh as everything now is quickly moving

00:41:06.400 back to the right catholicism might be the slowest to do so i would not be surprised so here's my

00:41:11.460 prediction i would not be surprised if everything moved further left than catholicism but now

00:41:17.840 everything is quickly with a populist movement moving back right and i could see everything

00:41:22.820 actually in the same way that it beat catholicism moving to the left i could see everything now

00:41:27.440 lapping catholicism on its way back towards the right and catholicism being the slowest

00:41:32.060 to to drift back towards a conservative position yeah michael predictions thoughts i well i arrived

00:41:39.080 the same conclusion as joel but for different reasons i just think i think there's still a

00:41:43.480 zeitgeist the zeitgeist is changing um but among the academia and the the elite i think the zeitgeist

00:41:55.800 the populist movement that we're seeing um is largely what it is populist on the lower levels

00:42:01.320 the academics i don't think are swinging in the same direction i'm not calling the cardinals

00:42:05.960 necessarily academics but they are the elite of the catholic church and i think that the jesuits

00:42:10.960 for example the jesuits yeah i think it'll i think it'll be the the centrist guy uh perilyn

00:42:15.960 uh who has been the secretary of state of the vatican and i think that um what we will be left

00:42:22.180 with is kind of a under the surface give and take to see whether the cardinals of different nations

00:42:32.700 around the world are going to be able to push the church to the left or more likely push the

00:42:40.020 church back to the right but i don't think we'll get um a strong conservative pope until that

00:42:47.720 battle has been won out a little bit more on the ground game with bishops and cardinals and things

00:42:51.620 like that at the at the high elite level at the high elite level which is the cardinals is it the

00:42:55.940 elites of every every single faction of our society every single institution they're the

00:43:01.640 leftist they're the ideologues they're the marxist they're the globalists they're you know

00:43:05.720 they're the ones um and so any kind of system you know with with a particular polity uh that gives

00:43:12.680 them the most authority although i actually agree with that in principle i agree i would rather have

00:43:18.080 an aristocracy than a raw democracy where everyone and anyone you know has equal voting power um so

00:43:27.020 i agree with that in principle but because that is the reality um particularly within roman

00:43:32.120 catholicism is that the elites hold the power um the elites in every single institution the west

00:43:38.300 right now are the most liberal right um of every institution and so i could see catholicism

00:43:44.400 taking longer to reform yeah west you were saying something interesting to me and maybe this would

00:43:49.840 lead into your prediction about how we in protestant circles are used to being able to have

00:43:57.680 kind of a vocal disagreement with the leadership and that's actually much more difficult in the

00:44:03.840 catholic church and so maybe maybe we're off on that maybe there's not quite the freedom of a

00:44:08.460 cardinal or a bishop of a city to be able to publicly speak out against the direction that

00:44:15.020 the catholic church is going i'm not sure yeah absolutely did you have a prediction

00:44:19.140 because if not i have i have something i think we should do here's a prediction it's broader but

00:44:24.680 it's going to be a fight that lasts a generation or longer like honestly like it's very easy and

00:44:29.520 you could do this with any eschatology but the silver bullet guys we're going to get a base

00:44:33.580 pope there's going to be a new crusade we're back so maybe you're catholic and you're listening

00:44:37.380 no there's decades of work ahead same thing culturally same thing political same thing in

00:44:42.720 the sbc it's not just like man like we things have been bad for a couple years we need that

00:44:47.640 silver bullet we need that that lucky strike we need that base pope bottom of the ninth

00:44:52.240 like honestly unless something radical happens something changes a world war i don't know

00:44:56.900 nuclear war sets us all level like we're talking about a generation worth of a fight right you

00:45:02.560 don't win a football game in the first quarter right you don't win in the second quarter you

00:45:06.240 don't win it till kind of the very end and all the work that you put in over time so i think the

00:45:10.660 roman catholic church is one example for those in there that want to see it reformed like we're not

00:45:15.180 talking about well this could be it we're talking about like your kids and maybe even grandkids still

00:45:20.560 fighting the fight that's being fought today for sure it's generational and i think a big part of

00:45:25.320 is like boomers uh the older generations boomers in particular did not have to experience the

00:45:30.440 consequences of their wicked decisions so they were able to welcome you know 20th century liberalism

00:45:36.280 with open arms um i mean you just have to remember the boomers that that that is literally the

00:45:41.560 generation that was on you know the white house lawn you know saying you know make love not war

00:45:46.760 you know and and doing all kinds of different you know substance abuse and drug use and uh the

00:45:52.820 sexual revolution and um you know and and inviting you know mark marxist ideologies into this and 0.82

00:45:59.140 that and all these different things so that that was the boomers and they had the privilege of 0.61

00:46:02.980 doing that and being high every single day and um and you know and and forsaking you know sticking 0.61

00:46:09.640 it to the man you know and that you know uh when somebody you know use their last name to say you

00:46:14.780 know like mr webb mr webb is my father you you know call me you know whatever and like um they

00:46:19.720 were able to do that and waste you know their 20s and part of their 30s and then walk right back into

00:46:25.760 an economy and um in a world where it's like oh okay are you done being a rebel for 15 years

00:46:33.020 and uh and and contributing absolutely nothing to society and tearing down the nation great you're

00:46:38.380 done with that now here's uh here's a great job um go ahead feel free to get married your wife can

00:46:43.080 stay home we'll pay you enough money to where you'll be able to own a house within you know

00:46:46.480 uh your first year of working here and you'll be able to take two weeks of vacation you know

00:46:50.880 mow the lawn you know work you know 40 hours a week with a single income and have have children

00:46:55.600 and also you know the the public schools uh won't have pornography in the library for fourth graders 0.91

00:47:00.980 and blah blah blah so the boomers like they were able to live like hell and never actually 0.52

00:47:06.000 experience the cultural and social consequences of their sinister decisions um those consequences

00:47:14.520 were paid to four generations such as millennials especially um and now gen z and so i i think that

00:47:22.460 what what we're looking at is like for the tide to turn um in terms of like you know trying to

00:47:27.440 predict how much time it's going to take well it's it's going to take um it's going to take

00:47:32.100 generations that have actually paid had to pay the consequences for uh mass immigration the 0.94

00:47:38.400 consequences of the sexual revolution and lgbt mafia you know and um all these kinds of things 0.97

00:47:43.860 it's it's going to be those generations that actually had to deal with the consequences 1.00

00:47:47.380 and um and actually were passed over uh for this university passed over for this job opportunity

00:47:53.940 passed over you know um it's it's it's going to require enough time for those people who felt the

00:48:00.660 brunt of the consequences of 20th century liberalism to attain power and and here's the

00:48:06.320 reality most people whether it's our government uh like if you're looking for common denominators

00:48:11.480 and trying to find a thread that runs through everything geriatric leadership right there it is

00:48:16.800 um so whether it's the u.s government um you know like what are the common denominator well a lot

00:48:21.160 of jews but beyond just that um a lot of people who are walking corpses i mean nancy pelosi is 0.52

00:48:28.020 like is she alive you know like i mean you know like i mean she literally thing on the republican

00:48:33.060 side too yeah so whether it's mitch mitch o'connell standing up there like drooling you know because

00:48:38.000 he can't even even function anymore or joe biden like standing there blanked out yeah exactly so

00:48:45.220 so um so you got but here's the point the point is whether it's in our government or whether it's

00:48:49.680 in the roman catholic church or whether like pretty much any institution uh the people who

00:48:54.040 tenure the people who have seniority the people have power are people who are old people who are

00:48:59.480 old and i think there's a lot of problems with that but that's just the way it is for now and so

00:49:04.180 you just you have to accept it for what it is is people are old so in in terms of putting you know

00:49:08.840 a time on it and predicting how many years how long is it going to take um well it's it's in my

00:49:14.500 assessment it's going to how much time is it going to take it's going to take the exact amount of

00:49:18.800 time for the generations who actually had to bear the brunt of the consequences of the decisions of 0.65

00:49:23.480 boomers for them to then be old and hold the levers of power and for the boomers to be off 0.81

00:49:29.460 off the playing field um and then for them to make the decisions to bring things back 0.66

00:49:34.100 and so aka um probably 20 to 40 years you know and i think there can be a lot of improvement in

00:49:40.880 the meantime i don't think it's just you know you flip a switch 20 years from now i think there's

00:49:44.320 there can be gradual improvement along the way but probably 20 40 years for what you're describing

00:49:49.540 in terms of like a real turn a real reformation third and fourth generation in many ways like the

00:49:55.840 sins god talks about like there's a sense not completely and certainly not in the eternal sense

00:50:00.200 for those that have repented but societally and generationally a three to four generation cycle

00:50:05.300 of those sins coming home to roost and having to be rooted out and repented of and dealt with

00:50:09.660 uh what i wanted to do is uh just real quick for our listeners because it was helpful for me we

00:50:15.380 were talking a little bit before offline but um we said that pope francis was uh the first pope

00:50:21.560 uh who is a jesuit is that correct can we can we just read like like what we were looking at a

00:50:27.480 little bit before um i think it would just be if i was in the audience i would be wondering you know

00:50:33.180 what who are the jesuits what what is that all about wasn't it the 1500s that it first started

00:50:38.920 it was formed in 1540 as a response to the protestant reformation and the way it works

00:50:44.700 don't think of this i was right about that you were right about it oh snap conclude rare ral on

00:50:49.420 my side i thought it was i thought it was formed not so rare but yeah go ahead some might say

00:50:54.940 common now someone's like um wesley todd so and the way to think about it in catholicism with

00:51:00.200 societies and other things like this they all have very they're not as separate as we would

00:51:04.920 think of them maybe in protestant land so when we think of sometimes seminaries that even being

00:51:08.540 protestant they're completely separate they don't share anything but you're talking about different

00:51:11.920 affiliations underneath the broader banner of catholicism so the society of the jesuits it's

00:51:17.560 literally what is the official name for it the society of jesus i think is what its formal title

00:51:21.600 is has generally been a type of activist group how would you describe them michael well i have a quote

00:51:27.160 that might help us this is from the imaginative imaginative conservative um and the article is

00:51:33.980 called two kinds of jesuits and he points out that initially the jesuits were founded as a

00:51:39.100 missionary movement largely to um the lands of the savages and there was he has a lot of stories

00:51:46.120 about jesuits going to the americas and being martyred he says in europe though he says the

00:51:51.400 great effect of the jesuits had been to recover europe for the faith that was their goal but this

00:51:56.880 is how they did it by making every sort of allowance trying to understand and by sympathy

00:52:02.260 to attract the worldly and the sensual and all the indifferent and insisting the whole time

00:52:07.960 on the absolute necessity of loyalty to the church.

00:52:12.700 Defend the unity of the church

00:52:14.060 and talk of other things afterwards.

00:52:16.260 Preserve the church, which was in peril of destruction.

00:52:19.920 Only then, when you have the leisure after the battle,

00:52:22.880 debate the other things.

00:52:24.140 And then he concludes, he says,

00:52:25.780 this accommodating spirit caused them to be viewed

00:52:28.100 with suspicion by more dogmatically-minded Catholics

00:52:30.500 along with their political intrigues

00:52:32.640 and led to their suppression.

00:52:34.000 Actually, they were suppressed in 1773

00:52:36.440 by pope clement the uh 14th last thing i'll say from this article not a quote but just something

00:52:43.120 i read further on down it was the jesuits really went pretty liberal progressive progressively

00:52:48.520 liberal in the late mid to late 1800s and they invaced and then embraced what we would kind of

00:52:54.800 consider now with our political framework more of a theological and political liberalism yeah but

00:53:01.540 from the beginning they were trying to preserve the power of the church by being more oh you're

00:53:09.440 an adulteress well we still love you yeah yeah exactly so in many ways so they officially kind

00:53:15.840 of put on the label of liberal in like the 1700s 1800s but um but even what you're describing from

00:53:23.180 the 15 and 1600s they kind of were like the og liberals like that was their strategy it wouldn't

00:53:29.920 have gone by that name but that was the basic building blocks of their strategy was we can

00:53:34.420 hold the church together if we simply lower the bar yes and so we're going to lower the bar across

00:53:39.000 across you know uh you know all the way across and um and you you get to be in and you get to be in

00:53:45.920 and you get to be in and you get to be in and uh and so jesuits from my conversations with you know

00:53:51.880 with catholic friends who i appreciate and and respect and love i i haven't talked to anybody 0.87

00:53:57.260 who's really a fan yeah they're all kind of like no jesuits suck they ruined the catholic church 0.83

00:54:02.720 made it liberal the first jesuit pope was terrible yep and for me as you know a reformed protestant 0.94

00:54:11.280 i'm like yeah i like i don't like that they invited liberalism into the catholic church and

00:54:15.560 they were also you know in many ways forged as resistance to the reformation for protestants so

00:54:20.300 i'm like they they suck doubly um in that regard but who was the first guy was it ignatius who yeah

00:54:25.940 a lawyer of Loyola what say Ignatius of Loyola yeah and and that was like in the 15 something 0.96

00:54:33.840 1540 yep there you go we'll hit our last commercial break we're gonna come back we've

00:54:37.700 got some super chats questions I see a couple here already we'll hit the questions you have

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00:55:29.180 Right Response. Again, that's squirrelyjoes.com forward slash Right Response to claim your first

00:55:36.680 free bag of coffee today. All right, we are so back. Here we go. Ben Huffsteadler, single-handedly 0.99

00:55:45.280 the man the myth the legend the legend he really he came in from the top rope with a 300 super chat

00:55:53.260 single-handedly feeding our children god bless him and buying anti-fever medication anti-nausea

00:55:59.140 medication this week that's right zofrin yeah zofrin is pretty pretty uh miraculous great yeah 0.94

00:56:05.240 which which thank you uh because we got it from your wife my wife is a walking pharmacy yeah she

00:56:10.940 god bless um okay he says i pray the loser theology stops um existing it's about winning

00:56:18.040 play the uh the long game uh pray for a based pope he has tremendous sway in the world hashtag

00:56:26.160 haters hate winning hashtag losers love losing and then he finishes up by saying hit the like

00:56:33.760 button or you are one of them one of these so true well said couldn't say it better myself

00:56:40.840 um ben gets it and i and i don't think as far as i can tell i don't think ben is catholic i think

00:56:47.000 he's just kind of echoing the same sentiment that we have and saying yeah we would like for uh roman

00:56:52.700 catholics to do well um if they do well the world is better for us for our children um the pope if

00:56:59.600 if there's uh a good conservative strong um uncompromising you know pope uh that that's

00:57:07.980 going to be a better europe a better america that it's better across the board and um and so you

00:57:13.140 know whether you're uh catholic or not right it's it's similar like you know with southern baptists

00:57:18.260 like we're not southern baptists um but yeah every every single time the convention is happening you

00:57:23.540 know we have lots of friends who are and we are praying and even we'll occasionally have guys you

00:57:29.000 know um southern baptist guys come on the show in order just to use you know the platform that god's

00:57:33.360 given us um to boost visibility for them because uh if the sbc uh does well then that's that's a

00:57:41.080 that's a team win more soldiers in the fight yep sage d uh says this as a cradle catholic pope

00:57:48.400 francis drove me away from my faith leaders like pastor joel motivated me to rebuild my relationship

00:57:54.480 with god again praise god that's uh very encouraging i'll say this about pope francis

00:57:59.680 too one of those difficulties it's it's a very popular thing to do because leaders think they

00:58:04.260 can hold both sides together so they'll come in and i've been in churches years ago now at this

00:58:08.400 point with pastors who try to do this that they were like well i'll hold the progressive and i'll

00:58:12.060 hold the liberal attendees and i'll try to hold the conservative as well the way i'll do that is

00:58:16.560 not lean strongly to either side the fact of the matter is francis was criticized of course by

00:58:23.000 conservatives right here's the deal the progressives criticized him too for not being as

00:58:26.960 inclusives right so he held neither side together you can never make the progressives happy right

00:58:31.260 nobody liked him and he drove away many from the faith so on every single calculus right for one

00:58:37.460 it would have been better almost if he just embraced theological liberalism and things

00:58:41.460 would have moved more quickly his legacy is is terrible it's really sad yes i mean all the

00:58:47.220 decisions he made appeased leftist zero um ticked off all the you know traditional catholics and

00:58:55.320 in fact i like i legitimately think out of 1.4 billion catholics the only person who thinks that

00:59:02.440 he has a positive legacy is a redeemed zoomer who's not even catholic now that's a common

00:59:09.560 redeemed zoomer l but i don't even know for francis if it was a strategy he just really

00:59:14.360 something about him from reading his biography he just really bought into a strong humanitarian

00:59:19.320 approach so a little boy comes up to him and says is my dad in heaven he doesn't have some complex

00:59:24.600 framework where he's attempting to identify and think through how do i comfort this boy but also

00:59:29.340 talk about the gospel he seems to me to have been really just a bleeding heart and the bleeding

00:59:34.040 heart wants to try to please don't leave you please don't leave you please i'll try to keep

00:59:37.760 you all together and he did none of that and so it's a warning against being either hot nor being

00:59:42.980 cold christ himself says don't be lukewarm of whatever you are at least just make your stand

00:59:49.280 make your stay and stick with it and francis didn't do that no he didn't all right striker

00:59:54.840 Stryker has a question.

00:59:56.440 He said, the right movement among RCs, Roman Catholics,

00:59:59.820 has been pretty extreme.

01:00:01.620 A Lutheran pastor, I know, is based,

01:00:03.880 but sees those RCs as very hostile to Protestants as well.

01:00:09.480 Any thoughts?

01:00:11.280 Any thoughts?

01:00:12.100 Well, it's a good question,

01:00:14.180 because we keep putting the framework out of

01:00:16.820 we need to win that big war over there

01:00:20.120 and then settle the disagreements here.

01:00:22.480 but something that i haven't considered is whether people like roman catholics or others that we

01:00:29.680 think we're coagitating with have the same perspective or if they're wanting to fight

01:00:33.440 this out in the camp before we go out and fight that war and i don't i don't have the answer to

01:00:38.280 that question like i'm just thinking this through right now but it isn't worth at least worth

01:00:42.580 thinking that through like okay we think that we're engaged in that battle but if they're like

01:00:46.620 no no no we're gonna we're gonna settle this dispute here first right that's something that

01:00:50.900 at least has to be considered. I think it's probably similar. My thoughts is

01:00:54.680 at least in the American context. So I won't speak for Europe, but in the American context,

01:01:00.960 it seems like the hegemony. And that's it. So whether it's in terms of race, if it's

01:01:06.520 European descent, whites, or in terms of religion, Protestants, at every level, the hegemony,

01:01:13.700 like the majority position, seems to be the most accommodating and doesn't really think in terms

01:01:19.860 of in-group preference you know they just they're able to assume a lot they're able to take a lot

01:01:24.740 for granted because they're the majority population we've talked about this before like even

01:01:28.900 in the realm of schooling and education you know roman catholics were way ahead of the curve as

01:01:34.460 compared to their protestant counterparts here in america particularly because protestants weren't

01:01:40.500 thinking about having protestant schools because the public schools were protestant schools there

01:01:44.380 were catechisms there was bible reading there was prayer uh the average public state school was

01:01:49.520 essentially the protestant school because it was the protestants were the hegemony they they were

01:01:53.980 the majority um and so it was you know the minority reports in this case roman catholics who had to

01:01:59.180 think in terms of in-group preference like in order to you know steal man you know when you

01:02:04.480 think of of jews for instance well like in many different nations they were the minority they were

01:02:10.480 you know they were um you know they they were nomads and they you know they were immigrants

01:02:15.060 not permitted to own land and also hold like equipment and work as farmers and stuff exactly 0.79

01:02:20.880 yes they had banned from this banned from that you know they're a minority group of you know

01:02:25.840 refugees and so they they band together they stick together and they prefer one another as in their

01:02:31.700 business dealings and you know in all these different ways gravitated towards finance and

01:02:35.500 all those right the things that were open to them which ended up being you know finance and that led

01:02:39.700 towards you know centralized banking and you know we know how that story went but but the point is

01:02:44.160 that um that's how people tend to think and so in america if you're a you know a a cons you know

01:02:51.400 generally conservative white protestant you've never really had to think in terms of um of

01:02:59.820 defending your own existence you've never really felt until recently i i feel this way now but

01:03:06.100 historically you have not felt as though you were on the ropes you didn't feel like you you know

01:03:11.060 you were having to fight for your little your your little square inch your little realm um your

01:03:16.020 little fiefdom uh but in america in the american context roman catholics have they they you know

01:03:21.600 they've been the underdog right um in comparison to protestants so striker's question to me makes

01:03:26.660 sense that um that you know there's you know in terms of the culture war there's there's protestants

01:03:31.820 who are on the right fighting against leftism and there's catholics who are on the right fighting

01:03:36.240 against leftism uh but for the catholics for the protestants to say hey you know well you know

01:03:41.320 we're willing to fight with you know the roman catholics you know on on this culture war um

01:03:46.760 some of these large fronts but for the catholics not to share that exact same sentiment and to be 0.54

01:03:50.960 like no we're fighting the culture war but we're also kind of fighting you we don't trust you um 0.91

01:03:56.120 we're not on the same team with you um for them to have that kind of mentality makes sense to me

01:04:01.000 because they've been the minority in this country yeah maybe not the same in europe but here uh they

01:04:06.360 have not been the hegemony we have been a protestant country i can see too the young you know

01:04:11.440 he's 21 years old he's got just every page he follows on instagram is like base trad catholic

01:04:17.900 he's got the thomas aquinas he's got the 12 12 volume box that hasn't even unwrapped it i can

01:04:23.280 see a young man like that looking at the protestant mainline churches driving down his main street

01:04:28.600 when you in our town you drive down main street you will see a sign that says love is love climate

01:04:33.060 change is real black lives matter i can understand a young man looking at that and turning around and

01:04:37.940 saying like no protestantism is part of the problem which then is incumbent upon protestants

01:04:42.560 to be public and vocal and clear about their opposition so they're unable to say well there's

01:04:47.360 no protestant standing up against this there's none of them calling them to account there's none

01:04:50.540 of them calling out feminism no there are and there need to be more and at least for a little

01:04:54.560 a while politically speaking we shouldn't be at each other's throats there will come a time when 0.99

01:04:59.920 we win we're gonna have to duke it out with the catholics right there will it's just i don't 1.00

01:05:04.340 think yet yeah because it does something when you grow up and the kids in your neighborhood go 1.00

01:05:09.900 to a public school or christian school and your parents say no no you have to go to a catholic

01:05:15.240 school right right like to your point joel it does it does just set you apart a little bit

01:05:21.180 different in your mind where you say mom and dad don't want me to be like that in in some way right

01:05:27.880 culturally religiously whatever right um and presumably your parents want you to go to this

01:05:33.840 school because they think it's best and best for you and best for society so there is going to be

01:05:38.860 kind of a uh an assumption that's passed on of well catholicism is different and better and

01:05:46.560 you know we're we're kind of preserving our way of life oh yeah that's that's a good point i think

01:05:52.300 and american protestantism has brought out the best of catholicism in that it's suppressed a

01:05:57.120 lot of the superstition that's very common for example in south america you go down to mexico

01:06:00.640 and it's catholicism is very different yeah yeah your base trad church sir is very much it's 1.00

01:06:06.360 literally it's full of like witchcraft voodoo nonsense well and catholics have to be fair

01:06:12.020 they have traditionally done that where like you know whether it's haiti versus the dominican

01:06:16.680 republic right isn't that the same island yeah right just kind of dominican republic's protestant

01:06:21.000 just like you think of like northern and southern ireland you know like belfast versus dublin

01:06:24.920 yeah you're the protestant and catholic divide there and same with this island you know the dr

01:06:28.780 and um and haiti and one was you know settled uh by protestants and one was settled by catholics

01:06:34.720 and you know the catholic side you know i'll let you guess which one haiti um they like there it's

01:06:40.280 the national religion you know like you look at and they'll say oh it's 80 something percent you 1.00

01:06:44.040 know haiti is 80 something percent christian and so we should be fine with haitians coming here

01:06:47.900 it's like no it's not 80 something percent christian it's 80 like 86 percent you know i'm 0.91

01:06:52.440 guessing the number but it's it's high i think it's in the 80s um 80 something percent catholic

01:06:56.840 but here's the thing that catholics have traditionally done and i think part of this

01:07:00.600 is probably as we're just learning doing some of the history a jesuit kind of impulse yeah um so

01:07:06.100 you know that jesuit influence and and uh of you know lowering uh the bar you know to the lowest

01:07:13.800 common denominator come one come all you know um what that is lent towards is a catholic syncretism

01:07:19.400 right and um and so you know so when catholics went and settled you know and colonized haiti

01:07:24.680 um it wasn't you don't have like oh now now that haiti has been you know colonized by catholics

01:07:30.620 it's visiting haiti is the same as visiting rome no no right the catholicism in haiti is a very

01:07:38.360 different kind of catholicism it's a synchronization of catholicism and what used to be the national

01:07:44.200 religion and in many ways if we're honest still is voodoo and so it's this weird kind of like hey

01:07:49.960 a little bit of pope and also a little bit of voodoo and a little bit like and it's the same

01:07:53.660 with mexico not i'm not saying mexico is to the same degree as haiti but um catholicism wherever

01:07:59.200 you find it in different places, it synchronizes with the dominant religion there. So in the

01:08:05.000 American context, well, the dominant religion here has been Protestant Christianity. And so

01:08:10.040 in many ways, Catholicism here in America is an Americanized Catholicism, which means

01:08:18.280 it actually bears a lot of the marks and resemblances of Protestantism. So we would

01:08:25.200 argue that catholicism here in america is one of the best versions of catholicism that you can

01:08:31.620 find i've tuned into like our local parish like here the catholic church to watch the services

01:08:35.860 and actually be able to critique they're singing the same worship songs we sing like they are it's

01:08:40.800 very much so influenced because religion doesn't exist in a vacuum right like protestantism or

01:08:45.380 catholic they're always going to be shaped and formed and molded by where they are um

01:08:49.800 matt marr there's a guy who was writing contemporary christian worship music

01:08:56.360 and he wrote a song that a lot of churches were singing uh probably 15 years ago and he's he's a

01:09:03.060 catholic oh really you know and a lot of protestant churches were singing he didn't advertise that he

01:09:07.940 was but he just released a contemporary christian music album and there was a song on there that

01:09:12.500 ended up getting picked up by a lot a lot of churches and i found out this guy the guy who

01:09:16.340 this is catholic oh like shut it down yes right get the call wicked brew uh in the chat he just

01:09:22.420 said um that's part of the problem with protestantism overall uh you have to dig deeply

01:09:28.580 into one specific local church to even understand if they're truly christian it's a nightmare and

01:09:34.740 that is true the difficulty with protestantism is because it's not unified and it allows for

01:09:40.420 for so many variations and so much, you know,

01:09:44.340 religious and doctrinal, you know, liberty.

01:09:47.540 It's, I mean, it really is case by case.

01:09:49.880 And so you can go to one Protestant church

01:09:51.800 and not just, you can go to, you know,

01:09:53.540 Baptist versus Episcopalian,

01:09:55.100 but even just within Baptist,

01:09:56.960 you can go to one Baptist church

01:09:58.620 and then it's absolutely heretical.

01:10:01.080 And then you go to another Baptist church.

01:10:02.660 The American Baptist Association, I think it is,

01:10:04.400 very early on embraced transgenderism and other things.

01:10:07.100 Yep, and so, yeah, so at, you know,

01:10:09.060 protestants um there are some great protestant churches but it is hard to find it's like looking

01:10:13.700 for a needle in a haystack whereas within catholicism there is still some element of

01:10:19.620 that case by case you could have a more liberal you know uh priest you know or a more conservative

01:10:24.820 priest but not the same um variation variation that you find among protestants all right well

01:10:31.540 um we're gonna go and end it there thank you guys so much for tuning in thank you um to ben and also

01:10:37.540 Also, I think it was Sage D who both gave super chats.

01:10:41.140 We really appreciate that.

01:10:42.200 It helps the ministry keep going.

01:10:43.860 And we're going to go ahead and tune out.

01:10:45.980 But Lord willing, we'll see you on Wednesday.

The NXR Podcast - April 21, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - Pope Francis Is Dead - Catholicism Is At A Crossroads

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