The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Practical Parenting Principles

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00:00:26.800 king solomon basically once said that of the writing of parenting books there shall be no end

00:00:36.900 from shepherding a child's heart to all the gospel centered centered gospel movement books of the

00:00:43.000 2010s there are plenty of books out there on the theology or the principles of parenting but

00:00:51.640 parenting is unique in that the Bible offers little practical instruction. Yes, of course,

00:00:58.620 the Bible instructs us on what we are to teach our children. And yes, it lays out for us the

00:01:04.840 tools of discipline. But the Bible says surprisingly little to nothing of all the practicals that make

00:01:13.100 up the day in and day out experience of actually being a parent. This is also what books on

00:01:20.460 principles of the goals of parenting, they typically fail in this area as well. This is

00:01:27.800 because the goal of parenting is not actually to follow a precise formula, be it from the Bible or

00:01:34.340 the latest and greatest parenting book, but rather the goal is to learn wisdom. The Bible doesn't

00:01:41.060 make robots out of parents or children for that matter, but rather it provides for us the

00:01:47.640 instructions and principles to shape our souls to love and adore the good, the true, and the

00:01:55.180 beautiful. And much of that learning and wisdom is practical in nature, not merely theoretical.

00:02:02.360 Now, this episode is brought to you by our premier sponsors, Armored Republic and Reese Fund,

00:02:08.540 as well as our Patreon members and our generous donors. You can join our Patreon by going to

00:02:15.960 patreon.com forward slash Right Response Ministries, or you can donate by going to

00:02:22.120 rightresponseministries.com forward slash donate. So today, let's dive into practical lessons on

00:02:30.920 parenting, training, discipline, and everything in between.

00:02:35.200 all right all right you saw his handsome face in the stinger but he is not here

00:02:47.920 michael is engaged in i would say the reputable art would be an art of camping or in other words

00:02:55.080 pretending to be homeless yeah when i pay my mortgage and lay down on my nice king bed you

00:02:59.460 know what i think to myself i should go outside i should go get eaten alive by mosquitoes yeah

00:03:03.680 and sleep in a tent and part of you know like maybe we'd be singing a different tune if we

00:03:08.300 lived you know in wyoming or montana or sure we live in texas if you did like an airbnb with a

00:03:13.680 cabin without wi-fi air conditioning sure yeah i'll camp there and people are like okay you guys

00:03:18.720 are soft and that's fair maybe you know guilty as charged but uh we're talking about texas guys

00:03:23.980 texas is it is not the place where you want to sleep outside there are bugs the size of horses

00:03:29.340 Like they can, I feel like I've witnessed fire ants physically pick up my young children

00:03:35.460 and begin to carry them away and I have to run after them and save their lives.

00:03:39.140 Texas is bug infested.

00:03:41.660 We're also a border state, you know, so it's, you know, there's an invasion, not just of 1.00

00:03:45.980 bugs, but illegal immigrants. 1.00

00:03:47.640 You know, there's all sorts of things. 1.00

00:03:49.540 And there is also most importantly, unbearable heat and humility, it makes you humble, humidity.

00:03:57.280 So Michael's camping.

00:03:58.560 we don't know why um but it's the two of us today he didn't get the call he saw crisis king can't do

00:04:03.200 it because i can't do it we've done this too many times can't do it again but when we talk about

00:04:07.420 parenting which it's actually kind of a bummer he's not here because he's raised i would say

00:04:10.860 three wonderful children they're great friends to our family uh joel you have five children correct

00:04:16.120 five i lose count sometimes so just confirm it's five i myself have two children so we're in the

00:04:21.680 younger years for sure we don't have teenagers although michael does and so i don't think we

00:04:26.000 would sit here and say we've got parenting all figured out this is what you do here's a little

00:04:30.060 formula but there's things that we've talked about many times in the show that can be timely advice

00:04:34.880 instead of timeless so what we'll say today here i don't think at 500 years you know someone will

00:04:40.000 be really struggling with a problem child and they'll uncover in the vault this episode on

00:04:44.680 practical parenting to be like every single thing they said was so relevant and pertinent and

00:04:49.420 practical honestly probably not and that's not the goal but for right now for evangelical

00:04:55.400 Christians in the year of our Lord, 2025, in a time when it's tough for two parents, tough for

00:05:00.280 the dad to keep the mom at home. In times like this, what are some practical things, some trends

00:05:05.860 maybe, some reactions to ways that things have been done in the past that we can talk about,

00:05:10.520 that we can hopefully offer some advice to? Again, that's not necessarily timeless. For all time,

00:05:15.420 we've got lots of books, the theology, the principles, the ideas, the foundations of

00:05:19.560 parenting. We've got that. Read those books. Those are good. But ultimately, what we need to lay on

00:05:24.200 top of that, to build on top of that foundation, is the practical day-in and day-out wisdom.

00:05:28.580 Amen.

00:05:29.800 I want to lay out just a little bit of how we got here, especially if you, probably a

00:05:34.500 lot of our listeners came from a bit of fundamentalist background.

00:05:37.220 So if you're American evangelical and your parents or your grandparents were fundamentalist,

00:05:41.280 if you remember in the 70s and 80s, so this would be, well, in many ways, the children

00:05:45.000 of the boomer generation, getting into the 80s and the 90s, those were a time of a lot

00:05:50.100 of rebellion.

00:05:50.540 So this was rock and roll, free love, drugs, Woodstock, anti-war movement.

00:05:56.600 The 80s and the 90s is, of course, coming on the heels of the Civil Rights Act, the 0.60

00:06:00.280 Heart Cellar Immigration Act.

00:06:01.960 There's a lot of upheaval and turmoil.

00:06:04.180 And this is kind of the soil that you would have, for example, Bill Gothard come out of.

00:06:07.940 And I remember Bill Gothard and his teaching and his books and all of that.

00:06:12.260 So he actually is not a parent.

00:06:13.980 He wasn't a parent, which is funny.

00:06:15.900 It's really funny.

00:06:16.680 We're sitting here with seven more kids than he ever had.

00:06:18.660 But a lot of people came out of that and they said, look, parents, you're scared about losing

00:06:24.000 your kids. You're scared of losing them to this. You're scared of them becoming communists or

00:06:29.100 socialists or hippies or whatever it is like that. And what he offered, and I think what some other

00:06:33.480 writers in the time, I think of Michael and Debbie Pearl, as they said, it's scary. I get that. But

00:06:38.780 here's a formula that if you follow, you can do your best to kind of guarantee these outcomes.

00:06:43.580 I know it's scary. I know all of this. I'm not even a parent. But if you follow, I mean, Bill

00:06:48.320 authored it was literally called basic life principles blp and it was seven different

00:06:53.080 principles like the authority principle and things like that and his guarantee to parents was follow

00:06:57.800 this do this and you'll your kids will turn out okay the question on everyone's mind how do i

00:07:04.120 keep my kids was what he came in and said this is your solution same thing with the pearls i would

00:07:09.280 say in many ways yeah mike on debbie pearl real quick in the chat i just it's a helpful question

00:07:13.780 G.K. Chesterton, he said, is rebellion inevitable with some children? I would answer that simply by

00:07:19.940 saying, yes, but not only with some children, but all children. The Bible teaches that a rebellion

00:07:25.840 is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod will remove it far from them. So every child is

00:07:31.460 rebellious. Not every child is going to manifest their rebellion in the same way. So some children

00:07:41.180 are externally more compliant. And other children, particularly boys, might be, you know, externally

00:07:48.660 more. That rebellion is seen on the exterior. It's more manifest. It's more obvious. But every child

00:07:56.680 is rebellious. You know, the question is simply to what degree and in what areas and through what

00:08:04.160 avenues, what methods. But every child is rebellious by virtue of being a sinner. In sin, 0.50

00:08:10.080 did my mother conceive me in iniquity, I was brought forth. That's what David says

00:08:14.560 in the Psalms. And so because of total depravity, because of the doctrine of original sin,

00:08:19.860 we are all fallen in Adam. And so we are physically born in this life as sinners,

00:08:25.300 and therefore we are rebellious. Romans chapter 8 says that the mind of the sinful man is hostile

00:08:30.660 towards the things of God. He cannot, he will not submit to God's law, nor can he. It's not just

00:08:36.040 what he's unwilling to do, but he's unwilling because he is unable. And so apart from salvation

00:08:41.560 that comes by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, from day one of your children,

00:08:47.700 unless they're regenerate in the womb, like a John the Baptist kind of situation, which I would say

00:08:52.460 is exceedingly rare, then what you should presuppose and assume is that your child is

00:08:59.080 hostile towards the things of God and rebellious towards the authority that God has put in place,

00:09:05.900 which chiefly in those early years and stage of life would be parents and so yes your child

00:09:12.420 not just some children but all children are rebellious and so that's something that you

00:09:17.640 should not just consider as a possibility but you should you should bank on it and then the

00:09:23.420 question of course and the things that we'll be talking about today is okay so then what shall we

00:09:27.100 do how do how do we deal with that kind of rebellion yep absolutely so i give all that

00:09:32.720 background to say, I really think 2000s, 2010s, people now that are in their 20s and their 30s,

00:09:39.340 if you grew up fundamentalist, you probably came out of that movement. So there's a lot of emphasis

00:09:43.020 on spanking and discipline and all of those different things. But to the point being that

00:09:48.180 we may now be in a time, I don't know, Joel, maybe you disagree with me on this, that if you grew up

00:09:52.780 and you agree with all of that, that now the time is not necessarily to continue to put re-emphasis

00:09:58.060 on the foundation, which is the explicit commands of scripture as it relates to discipline. Those

00:10:03.680 are well and good, and those form the foundation of good parenting. But there's many different

00:10:08.420 things that are not just a spreadsheet of what type of spankings, in what scenario do I give my

00:10:14.960 child. A great example of this would be, say, you have two siblings that fight again and again

00:10:18.320 over toys. Now, certainly the answer is, well, they're hitting, they're punching, they're yelling,

00:10:23.580 They're losing their temper, applying discipline, but also there might be something more underneath

00:10:28.560 that.

00:10:29.160 You might have too many toys.

00:10:30.420 We'll get to this in the second segment, a little bit of consumerism, but there's tons

00:10:34.440 of different tools and ways of thinking about it where if all you're limited to, if the

00:10:37.980 only tool in your toolbox is physical discipline, corporal punishment, if that's your only

00:10:43.120 tool, then that doesn't necessarily in and of itself take a lot of wisdom to apply to

00:10:49.120 shape the soul.

00:10:49.800 That is certainly the foundation because the Bible lays it out.

00:10:52.260 he who spares the rod spoils his child, but we then take that and you build on top of that to

00:10:57.300 build the complete child, the godly child, training and instruction. Some people will say,

00:11:03.300 that's made up, the Bible doesn't say he who spares the rod spoils the child. You're right, 1.00

00:11:07.220 the Bible what it exactly says is he who spares the rod hates his child, so it's even worse.

00:11:12.740 Exactly. And so that would be the first bit of emphasis is on that, and then to the tools,

00:11:20.500 And then the big thing, and this is, I think, a form of encouragement.

00:11:25.060 Another big thing coming out of that movement was very dogmatic blanket assertions, right?

00:11:29.260 So my parents used to hear back in the day, you know, like, if your kid's five and they're

00:11:33.000 not well-trained, then you've lost the child.

00:11:35.760 And they're very much so our children that by five, they're well-trained, they're behaved,

00:11:41.740 they're not getting spankings, they're doing well.

00:11:43.800 And then there's firstborn boys where that just isn't going to happen.

00:11:46.780 and if you think in your mind like like all children this gets into blank slate and things

00:11:50.920 we talk about with genetics all children are blank slate they come out of the womb and it's

00:11:54.820 your instruction and you're nurturing and you're training it makes them how they are and they get

00:11:59.100 to three and you look at your son you're like holy cow he's terrible compared to my friends

00:12:04.080 you compare him to other kids you compare maybe girls to boys you could very easily and i know

00:12:09.440 moms who have had this they look at their kid and they're like i am disciplining so much i'm doing

00:12:15.560 all of this and I look at this other parent and they say they say a strong word and the kid breaks

00:12:20.300 down and cries you have to get out of that idea of this is what the kids should look like these

00:12:26.940 are the benchmarks that fit every child and instead say how is this child made how am I

00:12:33.220 uniquely equipped to train to guide and to steer and honestly it just straight up takes longer for

00:12:40.020 some kids than other and that doesn't mean you're failing as a parent you could look and say yeah

00:12:44.380 My kid, he's taken a while to learn this compared to this other one.

00:12:48.220 And it's not necessarily, it could be, but it's not necessarily that I failed at a child.

00:12:52.060 It's the way God made them.

00:12:53.780 For boys, for example, ambition, energy, even aggression to a certain point, those aren't

00:12:59.440 bad things.

00:13:00.440 It's not a bad thing to be a boy and have tons of energy.

00:13:03.180 And sometimes the energy overflows into knocking things down in the house, causing a ruckus,

00:13:08.420 bowling over your siblings.

00:13:09.520 You're not disciplining him for being a boy.

00:13:11.800 And so taking each child, it's so important.

00:13:14.720 How is this child made?

00:13:16.140 What is their inclination?

00:13:17.260 Where is the rebellion?

00:13:18.360 And where is their sin?

00:13:19.500 How does it manifest?

00:13:20.600 Where do they lose their temper?

00:13:21.620 How do I have to shape that?

00:13:23.120 And then understanding it could look completely different from another parent.

00:13:27.220 And that doesn't necessarily mean that you're failing.

00:13:31.140 Right.

00:13:31.760 Yeah, train up a child in the way he should go.

00:13:34.100 And when he is older, he will not depart from it.

00:13:36.100 certainly there's a general truth there that every child, there is a general path that's

00:13:44.380 applicable to all children. So there is the way, train up a child in the way, the way that he

00:13:50.940 should go. All children are to be trained and oriented towards Christ, his law, his principles,

00:14:00.720 principles, the gospel, salvation, grace. And so there are general universal principles

00:14:07.640 that must be applied for every single child. But I think there's also, it's not at the expense of

00:14:14.040 that, it's not either or, I think it's both and. There's also, I think, a faithful way of

00:14:19.080 interpreting that verse to say, train up a child in the way he should go, in referencing the fact

00:14:26.320 that there is some degree of variance, that children are different, like what you just

00:14:31.700 said, Wes. For our children, you know, they're very young, but we have, you know, a seven-year-old,

00:14:36.920 a five-year-old, a four-year-old, a two-year-old, and an infant. And already, with the four older

00:14:45.460 one, the baby, you know, is a baby, but the four older children already, like, it's blatantly

00:14:51.800 obvious that they're not the same. They're different. Um, one of our children, uh, one of

00:14:57.020 our girls, it's our second oldest, uh, is we, you know, we've known for years now, she's only,

00:15:03.880 you know, um, she's only five years old, but we've known since she was, uh, three, um, for at least

00:15:10.660 a couple of years now, we've known that she just has a, a higher propensity towards, uh, the things

00:15:18.200 of the world worldliness like she we have to be extra careful with her because um she will you 1.00

00:15:25.500 know if we go out in public um and you know and you know we're at a restaurant and girls are dressed 0.61

00:15:32.380 in a immodest way we'll find you know that it catches her her gaze and her attention um in a 0.85

00:15:40.240 way that you know our oldest and our and then our third child um are you know they they don't really 0.81

00:15:46.780 care, you know, so like our oldest, like is a sinner as well. And she has, you know, things, 1.00

00:15:51.500 you know, her own propensities and inclinations. Um, but she's not as naturally worldly. Um,

00:15:58.380 she's not as concerned with, um, being cool or, um, or being the prettiest or being, you know,

00:16:07.300 this or that our oldest is also a girl. Um, whereas, you know, she has her own struggles,

00:16:12.900 struggles of you know approval very much she would be more tempted to be compliant but not

00:16:20.500 really out of a desire necessarily to please the Lord but simply for the approval of mom and dad

00:16:26.060 and so so she's very approval driven whereas our second is more is more worldly like the the lust

00:16:34.460 of the eyes like I see something it's shiny it's pretty all all the you know all the other cool

00:16:41.460 kids are doing it, and she's very tempted by that. And so early on, identifying, and things also

00:16:48.980 change. Children develop, they grow, they're not static. And so being able to see, you know,

00:16:54.420 train up a child in the way that they should go. All children should go the way of Christ. And so

00:16:58.960 there are some universal principles that apply across the board, but there's also particulars

00:17:03.760 that are individual to each specific child. And not all children are the same. Children are

00:17:10.140 different. They have different dispositions. And so as a parent, trying to use discernment and

00:17:16.800 quickly to the best of your ability to identify what those particular inclinations are and then

00:17:24.000 to be able to act accordingly. Yeah. And that's not something you can read in a book. There's no

00:17:28.140 book written about anyone's children that's going to lay out a formula for identifying what makes

00:17:33.020 them tick. You have to be a good, you'd almost say student of human nature. What motivates this

00:17:38.920 child even at a younger age what makes what interests them same thing for boys how am i

00:17:44.120 steering them like there's boys just straight up you could try to push them into sports and

00:17:47.820 baseball and like do this do this they're just guys that are more geared towards engineering

00:17:52.240 art music and the point being god made them that way and us as parents were given them to then

00:17:58.780 steward it with wisdom it's not a blank slate that then we plug them into a formula and we do it this

00:18:03.580 way, they'll all turn out X, Y, and Z, clones one, clone two, clone three, but managing and caring

00:18:09.880 for them. Just in a way, I think of Peter where he says, husbands, do not be harsh with your wives.

00:18:16.240 And what he's literally saying there is the word is according to knowledge, live your wives in

00:18:21.120 understanding way. So do not be harsh, but live with them in an understanding way. Literally the

00:18:24.600 word there is according to knowledge. So Peter to wives, husbands, living with your wives, 0.97

00:18:29.140 Husbands, live with your wives according to knowledge of God's word and a knowledge of 0.62

00:18:33.620 how they are. 1.00

00:18:34.420 Women as the weaker vessel. 1.00

00:18:35.360 Know your wife. 1.00

00:18:36.180 Exactly.

00:18:37.020 And so what is it for your children, too, that makes them despondent, destroys them,

00:18:42.460 crushes them the way maybe other kids don't?

00:18:44.380 And then understanding that is, of course, the key to caring for it well.

00:18:48.680 Yep.

00:18:49.260 All right.

00:18:49.840 We'll go to our first commercial break, and we'll be right back.

00:18:51.980 Okay.

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00:20:32.840 All right.

00:20:34.120 So this is a little bit of a personal point of emphasis of mine.

00:20:38.200 We talked about it a little bit.

00:20:39.740 This would have been our usury episode where we talked about commercialism and everything

00:20:42.840 like that.

00:20:43.840 But there's a really good book called Simplicity Parenting that's really helpful on this.

00:20:47.880 But the amount of toys, the amount of stuff, and the amount of consumerism that our children

00:20:53.380 are exposed to is incredibly high.

00:20:56.280 So we talked about timely principles, a timely principle that you, parent, in the year of

00:21:00.520 our Lord, 2025, you have to be aware of, is that your children, if you're not vigilant,

00:21:06.380 if you're not watchful, they're going to be bombarded day in and day out with the inclination

00:21:12.380 to buy, the inclination to consume.

00:21:16.360 I'm going to read a couple of statistics here.

00:21:18.660 This is all from peer-reviewed research.

00:21:20.900 This first one is incredible.

00:21:22.460 On average, preschool children see nearly 25,000 television commercials.

00:21:27.860 So we're not talking kindergarten, first, second, third grade.

00:21:31.060 Preschool children, so leading up in the preschool time, on average, see 25,000 television commercials.

00:21:37.920 I'll tell you what, when I watch television, you know I look at those ads and I think,

00:21:40.980 this would be great for my two-year-old to see.

00:21:43.440 Not, not quite.

00:21:45.380 There's tons of research on the negative effects of screens for children,

00:21:49.640 so parking in front of the screens.

00:21:51.420 The more times preschool children spend with screens,

00:21:53.760 the less time they spend engaged in creative play.

00:21:55.820 That's one study, the foundation of learning.

00:21:58.000 Another study, constructive problem solving and creativity.

00:22:02.560 Direct exposure to TV and overall household viewing

00:22:04.660 are associated with increased early childhood aggression.

00:22:08.720 Screen time for children under three is linked to irregular sleep patterns

00:22:11.440 and delayed language acquisition.

00:22:13.340 there's tons of different statistics on this obviously screen exposure goes up and this is

00:22:18.340 even before all the terrible things that a kid could see when they're exposed to television this

00:22:23.440 is aside from the movies aside from the music aside from all those things that would be negative in

00:22:28.500 and of themselves just this exposure them in and of itself just plopping of kid in front of the tv

00:22:34.900 just seeing them especially a boy taking a boy with energy and ambition and creative play

00:22:41.420 parking them in front of something that's highly stimulating like why is coco melon why is it so

00:22:47.040 loud why are there so many colors to keep your kid engaged to keep them focused so they look at it

00:22:53.400 watch it more like all of these different things be it uh like there's milk for example strawberry

00:22:59.560 milk in the store it has your disney cartoon characters on that why because it makes it

00:23:04.320 taste better no so your kids beg their parents to buy it at the store all of it geared towards

00:23:12.040 consume consume consume now the answer is of course not zero toys zero screen time you get

00:23:20.160 your first phone you're 18 although to be fair that's not the worst approach but uh you really

00:23:25.520 have to think especially today how is consumerism how is stuff how are toys how is this impacting

00:23:34.200 my child. There's a lot of research, for example, on the more toys a child has, the more overwhelming

00:23:39.520 it can be, and the more it stifles creative play. Boredom is a great source of, I need to figure out

00:23:45.840 how to do something. I need to figure out how to play pretend, to imagine, to learn to do. When you 0.65

00:23:52.060 fill up a toy room full of junk, and I know grandma and grandpa do it too. They bring stuff in.

00:23:57.460 when you do that you rob children of boredom you rob them of imagination you put a bunch of plastic

00:24:05.400 in there for one that's probably toxic and not good for them put a bunch of plastic in there

00:24:09.540 and you just try to get them to be stimulated to death overwhelmed to death like i was citing in

00:24:15.300 some of those statistics it's borne out in other ones it's not good for children now it's not the

00:24:19.600 end of the world if you have a lot of toys and your kids see some tv but by and large on the

00:24:25.840 whole what is our family consuming is it youtube tv is it secular music is it junky plastic toys

00:24:34.020 or we have invested in spending time outside christian music wholesome entertainment good

00:24:40.640 stories especially for boys like a lot of disney me and nathan were talking about it a lot of disney

00:24:45.900 movies as good as they are especially the old ones which even then there's problems mostly

00:24:50.740 focus on princesses if we're honest what are what are my boys taking in well they're watching you

00:24:55.220 know like a small amount of movies a week and all those movies are about princesses all the books

00:25:00.920 we read are about this you have to be thinking on the whole what is my child taking in

00:25:06.260 yep well said i agree um we could briefly talk you know i want to be somewhat careful because

00:25:16.480 we live in a world that that hates christianity and hates the bible and hates children unfortunately 0.98

00:25:22.880 If they can't kill the child in the womb by persuading the parent to get an abortion 0.99

00:25:31.660 or convincing them that somehow that's a wonderful thing to do

00:25:36.000 then they're going to try, in biblical terms, according to the Bible's definitions

00:25:40.100 they're going to try to ensure that at least the child

00:25:43.860 it's regretful that the child was born

00:25:46.360 but now we can still at least ensure that the child is not loved

00:25:52.600 by any meaningful biblical definition.

00:25:54.740 The Bible talks about discipline being loving.

00:25:58.320 In Hebrews chapter 12, God disciplines us as his children,

00:26:01.920 and he does so in love.

00:26:04.060 And then we already quoted earlier in the episode,

00:26:06.520 the one who spares the rod hates his child.

00:26:10.500 And so the absence of discipline is a form of hatred and neglect and apathy.

00:26:19.700 And so indifference.

00:26:22.600 towards the child so um we could talk a little bit about spanking um let me just say it's something

00:26:28.760 that we need to do carefully because you know we live in a world that like i said hates children

00:26:33.640 and therefore hates what god has prescribed it is if you're thinking about moving it is legal in

00:26:38.920 texas so it's legal and even in texas too some states have laws against this but one parent

00:26:43.960 can't be mad that the other parent did so and use the law against them so texas is fully said 0.91

00:26:49.240 obviously abuse of course not or like damage or anything like that but spanking as a means of

00:26:54.400 discipline is legal in texas one parent can't tell the other parent no i don't want you to do it 0.81

00:26:59.160 and you know making the case for texas texas is great on homeschooling we're about to get school

00:27:04.660 choice which will provide several thousands of dollars for private schools that'd be christian

00:27:09.280 school or homeschooling it's good on spanking so if you're a family and you live in i mean we've

00:27:14.220 had families from europe that have said like homeschooling is illegal these things are illegal

00:27:18.000 we literally can't do them uh move to the united states same thing uh there are different states

00:27:23.040 that straight up have laws against it or they're really strict on homeschooling requiring standardized

00:27:27.680 tests and paperwork and all of that so texas is a very pro-family state which is awesome praise

00:27:32.160 the lord we hope it stays that way but even then on the topic of spanking the texas law does allow

00:27:36.400 for parents to administer that and has no problems with it right yeah name of the game you know my

00:27:42.240 My wife and I, you know, we always say that, you know, the name of the game with spanking

00:27:46.340 is hurt, not harm.

00:27:47.860 You know, like you said a second ago, you know, bifurcating abuse from biblical discipline

00:27:53.160 that, you know, one of the distinctives of abuse is damage.

00:27:59.940 You use the word damage, you know, or lasting harm.

00:28:02.700 The name of the game is hurt. 1.00

00:28:05.320 Like spankings are supposed to hurt. 0.98

00:28:07.340 If it doesn't even hurt, then there's no sense in doing it.

00:28:09.980 So it is supposed to hurt, but it's not supposed to harm.

00:28:13.300 That's why, you know, traditionally, like, you know, you spank a child's bottom because it's, you know, resilient and there's, you know, extra padding and all those kinds of things so that it's not going to do lasting harm or damage.

00:28:29.440 You're not trying to harm the child.

00:28:30.840 You are trying to give them a momentary, right?

00:28:33.460 So Hebrews 12 also tells us that no discipline is pleasant for the time, but in the moment where it's unpleasant, that moment is fleeting, it's momentary, and so too should parental discipline, it should be something that hurts, it's uncomfortable, it's not pleasant in the time, but it should be something that quickly is fleeting.

00:28:57.960 Hopefully the memory and the lesson is lasting, but the pain is not.

00:29:01.980 Can I wax eloquent, too, on the biological reasons that we would do that and why God instructs it?

00:29:06.720 So the prefrontal cortex, you have the motor cortex, which is in the center of your brain.

00:29:10.660 The prefrontal cortex in the front is what controls inhibition.

00:29:13.560 So the reason we like alcohol is because when we take alcohol, one of the byproducts of it suppresses the function of your premortar cortex.

00:29:21.320 You're more likely to dance or to talk to strangers and be friendly because the things you're normally inhibited from doing,

00:29:26.260 I'm self-conscious, I don't want to dance in front of people, that's then inhibited chemically.

00:29:30.820 it's a chemical reaction it's not mysterious or spiritual it's a chemical reaction that causes you

00:29:35.360 to be less inhibited and the things that you want to do you carry out and ultimately a lot of times

00:29:39.820 do things you regret but in the same way you have two and three year old boys for instance they are

00:29:44.520 the most statistically they're the most violent by any age of child and now obviously their violence

00:29:50.660 is not very powerful because they're little but that's because of brain development their

00:29:54.320 prefrontal cortex has not yet developed and learned behaviors that it needs to inhibit so

00:29:59.700 when you're spanking a child say a child loses his temper he throws things he acts out and you

00:30:04.980 administer controlled pain that's short not lasting not abusive not destructive when you

00:30:11.300 administer that again and again over years what you're literally doing is you're helping them

00:30:15.760 form the connection that when i lose control of my emotions when i lose control and hit when i yell

00:30:22.520 when i stop when i do these things it brings pain it hurts because if you don't get that skill if

00:30:29.260 you're never inhibited and you're never disciplined and you never experience what that looks like

00:30:32.740 you'll be an adult you'll be 25 and you'll have no inhibition and you won't be able to save money

00:30:37.500 you won't be able to keep a relationship you won't be able to show up on time because you

00:30:40.800 have not learned the skill of resisting the things you want to do and saying no i have to be in

00:30:46.860 control of my emotions and it's a mercy two three four years old right at that stage to administer

00:30:52.900 something that in the moment is painful for them to learn i have to control my emotion because if

00:30:58.300 i don't it hurts and it'll hurt at adulthood if you don't learn that lesson in much more damaging

00:31:03.520 ways right or you can learn it in 20 minutes right that's three years old that's the key that um

00:31:09.340 all of life is filled with consequences for bad decisions and bad behavior um you never outgrow

00:31:15.320 that the only thing that changes is what you just said the consequences become increasingly

00:31:20.360 exponentially more severe and so what you're doing it is a mercy what you're doing is you're

00:31:26.420 hoping to teach that young boy, to teach him, you know, inhibition and self-control and, you know,

00:31:34.240 good behavior and those kinds of things when the stakes are much lower, rather than him learning

00:31:39.740 those things later when the stakes are much higher. And so he, yes, he's experiencing pain

00:31:44.860 in discipline for bad choices, for bad behavior, but the pain in discipline that he's experiencing

00:31:50.500 as a young man, as a boy, that pain is low stakes pain. It's fleeting. It's minimal.

00:32:00.900 The pain that he'll experience later in life, it won't be a spanking, but it'll be far more

00:32:06.120 severe than that. And so it is a mercy. It is a grace to children. One thing that I was going to

00:32:11.720 say just practically, because we opened the episode saying, you know, we wanted to be practical.

00:32:15.580 one thing that was really helpful for my wife and I was, um, was having like two categories of, 1.00

00:32:23.780 of, uh, spankings. Um, and so we, you know, the language that we use, um, is we, we say, 1.00

00:32:32.120 you know, there's spankings and then there's swats is what we say, uh, spankings and swats.

00:32:38.120 And we place those in two different categories. And what we mean by that is, you know, for

00:32:42.080 the first couple of years when we were new parents, um, we, you know, we were persuaded and,

00:32:48.620 and, you know, we had been taught that basically every time you do discipline,

00:32:54.740 it's, uh, it's a big event, you know, it's, it requires a lot of intentionality and it's going

00:33:01.400 to, at the practical level, it's just going to require a lot of time. Um, you know, and so like

00:33:06.200 from a lot of the gospel centered books. So it's like, yes, you know, like a lot of those guys,

00:33:11.200 you know, they would say, you know, yeah, I mean, the Bible does talk about spanking. And so we

00:33:15.460 can't, you know, we can't say that's not a thing, but, you know, you need to be sure that, you know,

00:33:20.180 it's not just a spanking. It's that you're going back to the room, to a bedroom. It's private.

00:33:25.640 You're explaining to the child on the front end what it is that they did that was wrong.

00:33:31.040 And then, you know, you're preaching the gospel to them and reminding them, you know,

00:33:34.840 you're telling them what was wrong. You're getting, you know, some kind of admission of guilt. Can you,

00:33:39.380 can you see that that was wrong?

00:33:41.140 And I need you to acknowledge that you did sin.

00:33:43.400 I need you to apologize.

00:33:45.660 Okay, now we're going to have a consequence. 1.00

00:33:47.500 Here comes the spanking. 0.99

00:33:48.520 Okay, and now we're going to do

00:33:49.460 the second half of our lecture,

00:33:51.740 you know, and we're going to, you know,

00:33:53.140 and now we'll focus on grace.

00:33:54.680 You know, you are forgiven.

00:33:56.280 It's been made right.

00:33:58.180 I love you.

00:33:59.060 And ultimately, you know, dad, he sins also.

00:34:02.080 And we're only forgiven because of the grace of God.

00:34:05.440 And none of us can do anything to earn it.

00:34:07.160 It's very evangelistic.

00:34:08.220 Every spanking is like that.

00:34:09.380 evangelistic opportunity. Yeah, a call to Jesus. Which I get the inclination, but continue.

00:34:14.940 And I think that's good. I think that that's a right sentiment. However, this is what my wife

00:34:20.500 and I noticed. What we realized is that if that's the prerequisite, the minimum expectation for

00:34:28.660 spanking, what my wife and I noticed is that we would just be tempted because of our own sin,

00:34:35.480 and our own apathy. And then even just practically, as we had more kids, it was easier.

00:34:40.060 You know, when we were new parents, and we only had one child, and then two.

00:34:43.820 Well, now we have five, you know, and, and if that's what it is, especially when I'm gone at

00:34:49.220 work, you know, so when I'm working, and it's my wife with five young children,

00:34:54.420 she realized that like, you know, she would go the whole day. And, and the children would,

00:35:00.160 you know, there would be occasions where they disobeyed, and they misbehaved. 0.73

00:35:03.460 but she wouldn't spank them because spanking meant going privately with one child into a 1.00

00:35:09.440 bedroom for at least 10 minutes to have five minutes talk on the front end you know spanking 1.00

00:35:14.240 then a five minute talk on the back end and you could say well it doesn't have to be 10 minutes 0.72

00:35:18.300 like you could do all that in two minutes you know a minute on the front end like but even two

00:35:22.520 minutes like when when you have a three-month-old who's who like in that in that moment it's like

00:35:27.920 the kid just disobeyed. But the seven-year-old is asking you questions. The five-year-old is

00:35:34.540 asking you questions. The four-year-old is crying. He's about ready for the next spanking.

00:35:42.480 Right. The four-year-old is crying, just got hurt and somehow playing. And then the two-year-old

00:35:50.600 needs discipline, and then the baby is also screaming, then you just can't. You can't do it.

00:35:58.780 And so what we recognize is that, again, bifurcating spankings and swats, that if spankings,

00:36:06.060 if that was it, if that was the only form of discipline, then what would happen is that

00:36:12.420 there would be plenty of occasions that one or two or three or five of the children just

00:36:18.540 wouldn't get discipline and uh and some discipline we eventually realize is that some discipline is

00:36:24.340 still better than no discipline and so it's great to have a high bar i still i still agree with the

00:36:29.540 basic premise of all those things like explaining to the child um that they actually sinned and what

00:36:35.060 that sin was and getting an acknowledgement from the child that they would admit like yeah i did

00:36:39.560 disobey i'm sorry an apology from the child spanking and then reminding the child of the

00:36:44.520 gospel of free grace and that the only hope there are some kids so stubborn they get spanked and

00:36:49.280 i was actually like this so encouragement to any mom that's like this first born boy is trouble

00:36:53.400 well i was that and i got spanked a lot i wouldn't be sorry so my mom would have to spank again and

00:36:58.540 again it's like do i literally have to spend every day like go through this process because they

00:37:02.860 wanted exactly that like they wanted to spank and then have reconciliation and just as me not every

00:37:08.740 kid is like this but me as a kid i was just like not sorry sometimes not even crying defiant and

00:37:14.500 think by god's grace i turned out okay but uh but to your point like well if mom wants to do that

00:37:19.280 but what if you have a strong-willed boy that's just in that moment not gonna have it right every

00:37:24.800 day do we have to like do the same song and dance and administer 20 30 40 50 smackings

00:37:29.120 yeah well that's a more complicated question we can maybe address you know later but but back to

00:37:37.220 real quick the the spanking versus swats is that's what we realized is that like okay sometimes

00:37:41.980 There's a lot going on, and we're at the dinner table, for instance, and all the children are talking to us.

00:37:47.980 There's five of them, and there's only two of us, and one of the kids is sinning.

00:37:56.560 It's clear objective disobedience is something that we've commanded several times.

00:38:00.420 They know what they're doing.

00:38:02.040 They're throwing their food on the floor, and they're not three months old.

00:38:05.800 They're three years old, and we've established that rule.

00:38:08.540 They know it, and they're deliberately doing it otherwise.

00:38:11.660 But we're not able to go back privately in the room.

00:38:17.340 And so on those occasions, I do think that having that extra tool in your tool belt,

00:38:23.080 there are spankings, and that's more intentional, and there's a talk that's involved in that.

00:38:28.040 And there are other times where there's a SWOT, and it's kind of an on-the-go discipline.

00:38:33.520 It's a quick on-the-go discipline where you can still say,

00:38:36.980 hey, I told you not to throw your food on the floor.

00:38:39.200 You know this.

00:38:39.860 you know that this is disobedience

00:38:41.800 and so you're going to get a swat

00:38:43.860 and there's just a little swat right there

00:38:45.860 at the table

00:38:46.560 and the other children

00:38:50.060 are present but they know

00:38:51.960 that it's done in love and then you can explain it in front

00:38:54.000 of all of them without having to leave the room

00:38:55.620 and get up and interrupt dinner

00:38:57.980 and I think that that

00:38:59.940 is helpful and without that

00:39:01.940 it's been my experience

00:39:04.280 and I've heard from

00:39:05.780 many many many other parents

00:39:07.480 It's not just unique to me, but this seems to be a universal experience that if the bar is set too high for discipline, that it has to be a spanking, it has to be private, it has to be isolated in a room.

00:39:19.720 It requires a talk on the front end, a talk on the back end, and this, that, and the other.

00:39:24.660 And it requires a very specific, the child must eventually, this gets into your thing, they have to respond by saying X, Y, and Z.

00:39:32.100 And if they don't respond by saying X, Y, and Z, then it must continue.

00:39:35.360 Then what will happen is if you have more than one kid, and we're supposed to be fruitful multiply,

00:39:40.860 then you'll be privately with one kid in the bedroom for an hour.

00:39:46.440 And your other four kids, you know, are like next in line, you know, like, and well, yeah, next in line, or even, you know, God forbid worse,

00:39:55.540 like there's some kind of accident and one of the kids, you know, gets hit or cuts themselves with scissors.

00:39:59.480 Like you can't do that as a parent.

00:40:01.060 You can't go back in a room with one child and leave four little children alone in the house for, you know, for 30 minutes or 20 minutes.

00:40:08.500 And so, yeah, so that just can't be it.

00:40:12.260 That can't be it.

00:40:12.980 So we know that the Bible, this gets back to the, you know, the cold open.

00:40:15.560 We know that the Bible tells us, you know, what it is, the what, the curriculum, the big ideas, the principles and virtues that we're trying to instill in our children.

00:40:24.580 And we know that the Bible in a general sense provides the how.

00:40:27.640 We know that at least one, not that it's exhaustive, that it's exclusive, the only,

00:40:32.720 but we know that it should be one of the tools in our arsenal is spanking, corporal punishment.

00:40:38.980 So we know virtue, Christian virtue, needs to be instilled in our child by teaching them,

00:40:43.540 and we know that when they fail, that one of the tools made available to us in Scripture

00:40:47.700 that we're supposed to use is spanking.

00:40:50.500 We know that.

00:40:51.020 But the Bible does not.

00:40:52.460 it is not so particular that it specifies, and this is how many spankings, and this is what tool

00:40:59.100 you have to use to spank. You need to use a spoon, or you need to use your hand, or you need to use 1.00

00:41:03.780 this, or you need to use that. It doesn't say how many spankings. It doesn't say how hard the 1.00

00:41:07.800 spanking should be. It doesn't say what the spanking should be with. It doesn't specifically, 0.99

00:41:12.020 the Bible doesn't actually specifically prescribe. I think it's a good instinct. There's a general

00:41:15.920 wisdom there whenever you have the time to do it. But the Bible doesn't say that you can never

00:41:20.100 spank a child unless you are privately alone with that child in the room, unless you talk for at

00:41:24.960 least five minutes on the front end and then talk five minutes on the back end. No spanking can ever

00:41:29.000 be administered without also a gospel presentation and an altar call for salvation. The Bible doesn't

00:41:35.020 actually say that. And so the Bible actually does give us a fairly significant degree of liberty as

00:41:43.840 we're able to exercise prudence and wisdom and figuring out what is best for that child and

00:41:48.280 what is best for our family in that stage of life and with however many kids we have and what

00:41:53.840 practically works. Right. Because otherwise God would be essentially tempting you and saying,

00:41:58.360 this is what you have to do for every moment of discipline. And also you follow my commands. You

00:42:05.060 had a number of children and now you're stuck between a rock and the hard place. You feel like

00:42:08.840 you have two commands. Well, I've got to take care of them. I've got to watch them. I've got to make

00:42:11.460 sure they don't get hurt. And then also I'm supposed to take this 10 minutes. God doesn't

00:42:16.000 put us between that rock and the hard place and it's wisdom that splits the difference between the

00:42:20.120 two and says well actually in this case in scenario i'm not going to the back room i'll administer it

00:42:24.900 here and now to your point so let's do this um nathan have we done all our commercial breaks

00:42:31.200 for today we have one more let's go a little bit early here let's go to our last commercial break

00:42:36.560 and then because we're trying to be practical we're trying to be as practical and helpful as

00:42:40.580 possible. Uh, we've gotten just the nature of this conversation parenting. It's just,

00:42:46.380 it's just so needed. And so we've gotten every episode, we get maybe, you know, five questions,

00:42:51.140 10 questions. And from the little bit that I've gleaned from the chat, we've probably gotten like

00:42:54.940 20 questions, maybe more. So I think we should just get right to the questions and just trying

00:42:59.560 to give, you know, practical advice and counsel as best we can. Um, so let's go early to our final

00:43:04.700 commercial break of the day. We'll come back exclusively deal with questions. We'll start

00:43:09.100 with the Super Chats and then get to as many questions beyond that as we can. And then because

00:43:14.700 we've already done one video today, we did one surrounding the Christ is King controversy that's

00:43:21.220 resurged over the last couple of days. Go and check out that video if you get a chance. But we

00:43:25.700 did that video already and we're doing this video. So we'll do the commercial break and we'll just

00:43:29.860 focus on questions and then we'll go ahead and call it a day since we're doing two videos today

00:43:33.600 and it's a lot.

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00:45:49.900 All right. Well, like we promised, we're going to go ahead and get to some chats. Nate,

00:45:54.580 which one do you want us to hit first maybe scroll to the top all right this is a good one

00:46:00.600 oh go ahead let's do let's do magnus connor's question quick do you think preventing having

00:46:06.200 kids is a sin magnus connor do you think preventing having kids is a sin so most of

00:46:11.880 this comes from onan uh in the old testament uh genesis i believe it's chapter 38 tamar um

00:46:19.040 Um, she, uh, was married to Judah was her father-in-law.

00:46:23.880 She was married to his oldest and, uh, we don't know exactly what he did, but, um, it

00:46:29.160 was displeasing.

00:46:29.900 The Lord, you know, supernaturally took his life from him.

00:46:32.920 And so then she was given a marriage to, uh, the second oldest boy, Judah's second oldest

00:46:37.900 son.

00:46:38.280 Um, and, uh, his name was Onan and Onan didn't want to fulfill, uh, his brotherly obligation

00:46:46.960 and duty and furthering his now-deceased older brother's biological line, his family line,

00:46:55.900 by giving to Tamar, who's now his wife, a child in his brother's name, a son in his brother's name.

00:47:03.260 And so when they would be intimate together, you know, the famous story goes that he would

00:47:10.680 he would spill his seed on the ground in order to not impregnate her. And it was wicked in the

00:47:17.720 sight of God is what the text says. And so the Lord killed him too. And so, you know, put him 0.82

00:47:23.520 to death. And we don't know exactly how he died, how the Lord did that, but we know that the Lord

00:47:28.200 was displeased and found it to be a sin and severe enough to be worthy of the Lord taking his life.

00:47:36.320 So that's kind of where this comes from, the sin of onanism is the idea.

00:47:42.240 And so there are some Christians that have gleaned from that that there should be no form of family planning whatsoever, that you have as many children as the Lord gives to you.

00:47:56.720 And in that family planning, not just no to birth control, no to barrier methods, no also to any type of timing, rhythm, natural family planning.

00:48:06.080 None of that even as well.

00:48:08.120 Yes.

00:48:08.500 So there are some Christians who take that position that to inhibit procreation in any way is wrong.

00:48:17.960 So we certainly agree, and we've talked about it before, that birth control in terms of the hormonal birth control pill, that we have big problems with that because of the ethics and that it risks aborting a child, that you actually have an egg that has been fertilized.

00:48:41.080 We believe that life begins at conception.

00:48:43.360 Conception is not implantation, but fertilization and the hormonal birth control pill does actually risk.

00:48:51.220 It can inhibit fertilization, but it also could fail where fertilization does occur,

00:48:57.100 but then the thinning of the uterine wall takes place in such a way that you now have a fertilized egg,

00:49:04.060 human being conceived and made in the image of God that has no hospitable environment to go,

00:49:08.620 and the woman's body ultimately aborts the child.

00:49:13.460 And so, you know, from the pill to, you know, what is it, IUD?

00:49:20.840 Yep, like a copper IUD.

00:49:22.840 Yeah, so there's several things like that that we believe we could speak, you know, dogmatically to

00:49:30.300 because of the issue of life and taking the life of a child.

00:49:34.820 But in terms of condoms, which are merely preventative and they're not abortifacient, or whether it be timing of the month and those kinds of things, that's where the Bible speaks with less clarity.

00:49:52.500 and so we would give some room for conscience there.

00:49:57.640 But what I've consistently taught

00:49:59.980 is that the general idea is that

00:50:04.920 the Bible teaches us that children are a blessing,

00:50:07.800 a heritage from the Lord

00:50:09.120 and that the man whose quiver is full

00:50:11.540 is exceedingly blessed.

00:50:14.800 So children are inherently a blessing

00:50:17.280 and the man who has a lot of children

00:50:20.080 is particularly blessed by God.

00:50:21.960 And so we want to affirm the scripture. We just have to recognize that we live in a culture today that hates children and that idolizes convenience and all these different things, money, materialism, and just simply does not have the view of children that God has and that we should have.

00:50:40.600 And so we need to be aware that what we might call family planning or I'm just being wise is entirely possible and very likely in many cases, especially with modern Westerns, even Christians, that what we're calling wisdom really may be fear, it may be idolatry, it may be our own comfort, our own convenience.

00:51:05.280 I think that that's highly likely. We live in a society, we don't have large families. They're

00:51:11.720 exceedingly rare. And when I say large families, I don't mean five kids. I have a family of seven.

00:51:17.200 We have five kids. In our church, we are a medium-sized family. So when I say large family,

00:51:23.200 I'm talking eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 kids. And we know plenty of families with that many kids.

00:51:30.340 and it's awesome. It's a blessing. And we have to believe it's a blessing because one, we see it,

00:51:35.780 we've witnessed that it really is objectively good and there's joy and there's warmth and

00:51:40.140 all those things. But also because God's word objectively says it. So in terms of that, this is

00:51:46.760 kind of where I've landed is what you're talking about with family planning is you're talking

00:51:52.520 about if children really are a heritage from the Lord, a blessing, then you're talking about the

00:51:57.000 mitigation of blessing. So, so then when I, when I pan out beyond children, I look at other

00:52:03.460 blessings. Um, you know, material provision is a blessing from the Lord. The Lord is the one who

00:52:09.080 gives increase. The Lord is the one ultimate, we work, but the Lord is the one who ultimately

00:52:13.860 provides through our work. Um, so money, um, material provision, um, is a blessing that

00:52:21.040 ultimately comes sovereignly from the Lord. And so the question would be, um, do we seek to

00:52:27.480 mitigate that blessing? Like, do we get called in by, you know, um, a supervisor at work and he

00:52:34.180 says, I'd like to give you a raise. And he says, I'm, you know, I'm going to give you an additional

00:52:37.740 $10 an hour. And you say, you know what, let's make it five because I just don't want too much

00:52:43.120 blessing. Well, kids add difficulty and like, you don't think a raise doesn't come with

00:52:47.140 responsibility and difficulty that's right it comes with money blessing it also comes with

00:52:51.240 responsibility all these blessings always come with a pair of resources all your great responsibility

00:52:56.040 it's a double-sided coin with every additional resource that the lord gives to us um there is

00:53:02.100 both uh both the privilege and also the duty the responsibility so more money uh means more

00:53:10.040 responsibility will be held uh those who who are richer and have been given more uh financially

00:53:15.660 will be held more accountable for that, for those resources and how they stewarded them for the

00:53:23.200 glory of God. If you have a higher, you know, more influence, so it doesn't just have to be

00:53:27.800 monetary, but more influence, a higher station of life, you know, with your job or this or that,

00:53:33.860 like whenever we're given more by God, it is both a blessing, a greater blessing with more,

00:53:41.640 more of anything, anything that the Bible says is good and not inherently evil. And money is not

00:53:47.740 inherently evil. It's the love of money and greed that is the root of all kinds of evil. But money

00:53:52.940 in and of itself is not inherently bad, not at all. And so it is a blessing. And whenever we

00:53:57.880 receive more of something that the Bible says is good, a blessing, then we are going to be held

00:54:05.120 to a higher account and there will be more obligation and responsibility for how we

00:54:10.000 steward that. So that's kind of how I've thought about it is, is there any other blessing in our

00:54:16.180 life that we would be thinking, you know what, I'd really like, you know, the blessing just

00:54:23.060 keeps coming. And it's just, you know, it's just too much. And I'd really like to slow that down.

00:54:27.840 I'd really like to make sure I have less of this blessing. And I'm asking that, you know,

00:54:33.920 like, it's a little tongue in cheek, but I'm asking that, I'm not saying that that would be

00:54:38.860 impossible. Like I actually do think that there could be scenarios, some scenarios where it's

00:54:42.660 like, uh, you could make twice as much money, but it would take you away from the home just too

00:54:47.900 much. And so you actually, you sit there, you do the calculus and you actually decide, no,

00:54:52.480 I'm going to actually mitigate that, that, uh, financial blessing. I'm going to say no to that

00:54:56.660 financial blessing because it's going to take me away from some other things. So there are like

00:55:00.960 some legitimate reasons, um, to mitigate blessing. But what I'm trying to say is that there are very

00:55:08.320 few times that even among mature, godly Christians, there are very few times that we will mitigate

00:55:14.740 the blessing of financial prosperity. And yet, it is almost universal. It's so prevalent

00:55:23.420 that we are mitigating children. And so, I think that that, to me, that signifies

00:55:30.380 that we have almost universally as a culture

00:55:36.480 adopted an unbiblical view of children

00:55:40.540 and what children represent.

00:55:42.340 So could there be any cases?

00:55:43.900 Yeah, I think there are a number of cases.

00:55:46.400 One could be your wife's health, right?

00:55:48.860 So like if your doctor says,

00:55:50.220 hey, you know what?

00:55:51.380 You almost died in childbirth on your last pregnancy,

00:55:54.620 like your last delivery with your sixth child. 0.78

00:55:57.800 And if you try to have a child again,

00:55:59.380 it might kill you okay well then yeah that's that now that that needs to be taken seriously

00:56:06.120 into consideration that's that's different or if it's uh look we don't we don't want to just have

00:56:11.160 a quiver full of arrows but we want arrows that are sharp and straight because let's be honest

00:56:15.420 like christians you know christian parents from the 80s and 90s like they had some arrows i mean

00:56:20.740 they were mitigating children you know most of you know the average of you know two kids

00:56:24.200 but even the two arrows that they did have

00:56:26.920 most of those arrows were so

00:56:28.960 so bent

00:56:31.120 instead of being straight

00:56:32.720 that those arrows 1.00

00:56:34.280 all those Christians did was actually provide 0.86

00:56:36.960 ammunition for the enemy 1.00

00:56:38.020 all those kids grew up and went to some godless 0.88

00:56:40.940 university, became atheists

00:56:42.480 and joined Antifa

00:56:45.280 in 2020 and worked for BLM

00:56:47.020 so that doesn't do any good

00:56:49.040 Samuel had two

00:56:51.120 sons, the prophet Samuel

00:56:52.940 He had two sons, but they both took bribes.

00:56:55.840 In Israel, they go to Samuel when he's old,

00:56:57.500 and they're like, you don't have a successor. 0.76

00:56:59.360 You don't have a successor because your sons are deadbeats.

00:57:02.660 And so it didn't benefit Samuel to like, you know what?

00:57:07.700 Instead of two, I should have had six.

00:57:10.100 Yeah, exactly. 0.85

00:57:11.680 I'd be in better shape if I had six kids who took bribes.

00:57:16.760 No, so quality matters is my point.

00:57:19.660 So the Bible does speak to quantity.

00:57:21.200 blessed is the man whose quiver is full. So that is biblical. That's explicit. It's not just, you

00:57:25.480 know, far-fetched or stretching the text. So children are inherently a blessing, heritage

00:57:31.560 from the Lord, and many children are an even greater blessing. That's quantity. That's clear

00:57:37.300 from scripture. But I think that we can assume quality. And quality, you can say, well, a lot

00:57:43.600 of that quality is up to us and how we raise them. And that's absolutely true. The Bible certainly

00:57:48.900 affirms that, but I think knowing, um, and this is what's hard. And honestly, I don't trust,

00:57:54.060 I don't trust Western modern Christians to, to make this calculus. I think like whatever you 0.99

00:57:59.920 think is probably a good idea. You should probably just add like two or three kids to it. Like

00:58:04.200 seriously, because I don't trust us. Like we, like, um, we, for decades, we have done everything

00:58:10.640 we can to make sure that we don't have a lot of kids. Like if any, it's so clearly idolatry. It's

00:58:17.160 so clearly sinful. And so that's the calculus that we're working from. But what I was going to say

00:58:21.960 is, I do think that there is an allowance for Christian parents to consider their frame. The

00:58:27.640 Lord considers our frame that we're made from dust. Like considering your frame and knowing like,

00:58:32.260 okay, what, what can we, what amount of children can we have and steward properly? And what pace

00:58:39.380 can we go at? Because there are added challenges when each of your kids, you know, is, you know,

00:58:45.380 the age difference between each of them is 18 months is much more difficult when you know when

00:58:50.560 the age difference is three years that makes a huge difference right having having a three-year-old

00:58:57.060 one and a half year old and a newborn is much more challenging than having a six-year-old a

00:59:02.700 three-year-old and a newborn much more challenging and so the pace that you go at and the number

00:59:08.780 um of children like i think considering your frame like um is your wife a quadriplegic you

00:59:16.240 know like okay well then yeah that should be considered uh how is her health um also your 0.94

00:59:22.120 emotional uh frame and your your christian edwards she had like 13 kids and right in the middle of

00:59:27.360 it just straight up broke down like snapped at one point right so like do you have do you have 0.97

00:59:32.660 the mental and emotional framework for that. But all that, and hear me on this, all that has to be

00:59:39.820 tempered with the reality. It's an inescapable reality, and we just have to admit it. We live

00:59:45.840 in a time and a culture that hates kids. So as you're doing the calculus, you say, well, we're

00:59:50.880 just trying to be wise, or we're just considering, I'm considering my wife's frame, or we're just,

00:59:56.160 you know, we, you know, quality, you know, matters, and it does no good. You know, you yourself,

01:00:01.560 Joel, you said, you know, it would do no good to have six bad children, you know, it'd be better to have three good children. All those things are true. All those things are true. And also, we live in a culture and a time that hates children. So whatever you're calling wisdom, you just need to be, you need to be like, like, painfully, acutely aware that your flesh is probably factoring into that equation, much more than you're willing to admit.

01:00:28.920 i probably i don't have a position i'll defend yet i would probably go farther than you

01:00:33.740 and i will say church history up till about 1930 said that all forms of birth control besides

01:00:38.860 family planning were wrong both catholics and protestants up till about 100 years ago did

01:00:43.620 fully say so that's that's a calculus i've taken in as i've prayed and worked through it

01:00:47.820 like nobody before 100 years ago would have affirmed that these have a place for the christian

01:00:53.120 yeah that and that's a serious calculus like when you are when you're the anomaly um that's

01:00:59.280 standing outside of the witness of you know a millennia and a half or two millennia almost

01:01:06.100 of church history and what the church has ascertained like you should you should be

01:01:10.240 in a time period that built christendom like things haven't been so great since 1930 when

01:01:15.040 catholics and protestants stopped having as many kids yeah yeah there's like we think of like well 0.86

01:01:21.100 what's the downfall, you know, to our society? And, you know, and like, 0.93

01:01:24.260 we think, you know, there's like, you know, there's the Jews,

01:01:26.660 you know, but there's all these things that people, you know,

01:01:29.400 that's the crisis King controversy. It's like,

01:01:31.500 that's what people are trying to do. They're trying to account.

01:01:33.680 And many times, you know, we're trying to blame, but like,

01:01:36.580 but we're trying to account for like, where do we get off the rails?

01:01:38.980 How do things get so bad? And the reality is there's a ton,

01:01:41.940 there's a ton of answers to that question. You know, like media is,

01:01:46.420 is part of that degenerate filth on the television, you know, that we're,

01:01:49.660 you know, like they were submerged in, you know, from a very young age and all, you know,

01:01:55.040 all these different things, um, churches, their doctrine being watered down, you know, um, uh,

01:02:01.580 you know, uh, government schooling, you know, that's, that's godless and atheistic, you know, 0.71

01:02:06.980 public schools, um, corrupt politicians, uh, multiculturalism, bringing in, you know,

01:02:13.920 false religions and false gods without a cohesion of people who are united together. 0.94

01:02:19.400 There's all these different things that have contributed to the decline of morale,

01:02:23.660 the decline of virtue among our nation.

01:02:28.800 But part of it is, it really does come down to from the get-go, from the earliest years of life.

01:02:37.040 Like one thing that we don't always point to is like, well, how could people be so degenerate?

01:02:41.780 And how have things gotten so bad?

01:02:43.840 It's back to what you were talking about earlier with training a young child, especially young boys, with discipline from a young age so that they develop that healthy sense of inhibition and they're able to exercise self-control.

01:03:02.440 Gentle parenting is kind of what I'm building up to.

01:03:06.880 That's what it's called.

01:03:09.700 Whatever, I didn't pick the label, but that's what it's known as.

01:03:13.100 But gentle parenting, which means there's no corporal punishment.

01:03:17.000 There's never, there's never, I just talk to the kid, basically.

01:03:20.340 I just talk to the kid and try to get them to, you know,

01:03:23.140 I'm basically like appealing to my two-year-old to try to get them to empathize with me.

01:03:26.900 Like, how do you think this makes me feel? 0.80

01:03:28.560 Mom's just having a really rough day.

01:03:30.000 Could you be more considerate?

01:03:31.360 You know, or I'm preaching the gospel. 1.00

01:03:32.660 But there's no spanking. 1.00

01:03:34.160 There's no spanking.

01:03:36.520 And it's like, you know, how do things get so bad?

01:03:39.940 Well, we're sitting on like 30 years of, statistically,

01:03:45.900 like 30 years of the vast majority of adults that we currently have in our nation

01:03:50.840 have never been spanked a single time in their life.

01:03:54.300 Not once.

01:03:55.360 Like, would that affect the populace?

01:03:57.560 Would that have a negative effect on virtue and morale?

01:04:00.980 Yeah, I think so.

01:04:02.500 So parenting is key.

01:04:03.620 How many kids you have, but also the quality of kids that you have.

01:04:07.560 and your willingness to raise him

01:04:10.460 in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

01:04:12.440 All right, we've got to move quick

01:04:13.460 because we've got some good super chats.

01:04:14.800 So let's go Rubicon first.

01:04:17.300 $10 super chat, thank you.

01:04:19.000 Great profile picture.

01:04:19.960 That kind of looks like Caesar on a horse

01:04:21.280 crossing the Rubicon.

01:04:22.940 I think it's Trump.

01:04:24.360 You think it's who?

01:04:25.520 I think it's Donald Trump.

01:04:26.960 Oh, there you go.

01:04:28.560 Age of accountability.

01:04:29.640 Some Lutherans, LCMS, Lutheran Church,

01:04:32.300 Missouri Synod,

01:04:32.920 do not believe in an age of accountability. 0.97

01:04:34.540 Thus, they must be baptized as an infant 0.77

01:04:36.720 into the church as a Baptist. I do not believe that. Correct. So, as Baptists, we wouldn't agree

01:04:41.880 with infant baptism. We would say, so the Old Testament, circumcision is given upon physical 0.94

01:04:46.860 birth, but it precedes and anticipates the fullness, which is baptism upon spiritual birth.

01:04:52.720 So, circumcision, a physical act upon physical birth for boys, anticipating, foreshadowing,

01:04:59.180 looking forward to spiritual rebirth, the spiritual sign of baptism into the invisible

01:05:05.080 church upon not physical birth but the spiritual new birth as signified by profession of faith

01:05:10.800 right um yeah and lutherans are a little bit funny um not all there's there's different

01:05:19.100 stripes and breeds but i remember talking to one lutheran minister once upon a time and

01:05:24.340 and he was you know he's like well i'm i'm a calvinist joel you know like uh i you know i

01:05:30.700 believe in predestination and election and these kinds of things but but he also you know believed

01:05:36.420 in baptismal regeneration so it's not like so to to distinguish a little bit like it it is

01:05:42.380 different than you know our presbyterian brothers and sisters that you know are also paedo-baptist

01:05:47.680 they apply infant baptism but they don't believe that um there's regenerative um whereas within

01:05:54.800 lutheranism and i'm not sure i mean there's so many different it's just like baptists like well

01:05:59.280 what kind of Baptist are you? What kind of Presbyterian? What kind of Lutheran are you?

01:06:02.300 But from my understanding, many Lutherans do hold not just infant baptism, but baptismal

01:06:09.200 regeneration, meaning that the baptism in the literal and immediate sense actually saves. So

01:06:17.540 that child upon being baptized is regenerated and is a Christian. And so that's something that

01:06:27.120 you would find you know within roman catholicism it's something that you would find uh within

01:06:31.860 which catholicism is to distinguish is cleansing of original sin specifically so i would say

01:06:40.080 because they don't have as much focus on the regeneration that's a good emphasis of

01:06:43.900 protestanism so for roman catholicism cleansing original sin for lutheranism regeneration is

01:06:49.740 that what they say uh venial i think is the uh the unimportant ones there's mortal and venial

01:06:56.940 mortal sins are sins to fall from a state of grace right baptism puts you in a state of grace

01:07:02.380 that's right which venial sins can't take you from but mortal sins could that's right

01:07:06.380 yeah no you're right uh and in that sense it's kind of funny that um you know people say baptists

01:07:13.360 are the outliers you know when it comes to their um their doctrine of baptism but really

01:07:17.800 presbyterians are actually um in many ways the outliers and and i love presbyterians sure but

01:07:23.960 But they're the outliers in the sense that the Baptist believes that the Baptist is going to link baptism with regeneration.

01:07:34.460 So, God, like, you know, a believer's baptism, that God saves, regenerates, and we baptize them.

01:07:41.700 Catholics, baptism and regeneration, you know, or at least like there's something.

01:07:45.820 State of grace.

01:07:46.420 State of grace.

01:07:47.380 Like it happens in, you know, Episcopalians, Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans.

01:07:53.960 Anglicans, every single Christian tradition links either a state of grace or regeneration or salvation, something like that, with baptism, except for Presbyterians. 0.83

01:08:10.280 They're actually the outlier.

01:08:13.460 So they would say Baptists are the outlier because they're the ones who aren't practicing infant baptism.

01:08:19.440 But even though we're not doing it with infants, we are actually keeping in step with, in a loose sense, with Catholics and Eastern Orthodoxy and certainly with Episcopalians and Lutherans and Anglicans in the sense that we're saying, no, baptism is linked to salvation.

01:08:39.200 It directly correlates with regeneration.

01:08:42.620 Yep.

01:08:43.120 This one, it's not a super chap, but it's a frequent supporter and I think a really important personal question.

01:08:48.140 So BJJ Wins again said, my firstborn son is an embryo adoption.

01:08:52.620 The wife gave birth.

01:08:53.500 His wife gave birth.

01:08:54.360 So it's not adoption after birth, but adoption of the embryo, which his wife then gave birth

01:08:58.460 to.

01:08:58.960 And then we had a natural child.

01:09:00.740 My wife is very worried about him.

01:09:02.200 That is the firstborn son, the embryo adoption.

01:09:04.600 Not feeling as loved as our natural kid.

01:09:06.900 Any advice?

01:09:08.880 He said, I imagine Joel has some insight.

01:09:11.340 Yeah.

01:09:11.480 So people know, um, that I was adopted, not as an embryo, but, um, but as a baby, I, you

01:09:20.260 know, Voodie Bauckham had, I think, you know, one time I, I, uh, saw something that he said

01:09:24.920 about adoption that I thought was helpful.

01:09:27.260 Um, he was talking about, you know, he's adopted, I think seven boys.

01:09:30.960 Um, right.

01:09:33.000 I think it's seven, I think it's seven kids.

01:09:34.800 He has a couple of girls, I think, but.

01:09:35.900 Well, he, yeah.

01:09:36.560 So he has two kids, a boy and a girl, that are biological, and then they didn't have any more children, and it wasn't until later in life that they went back and entered that stage of parenting again and adopted seven children that I believe are all boys, but maybe not.

01:09:53.100 I didn't know that.

01:09:53.720 But I think it's seven kids.

01:09:56.120 And so there might be a couple girls.

01:09:58.740 But people asked him a similar question.

01:10:00.980 And they said, like, do you love your biological kids more than your adopted kids?

01:10:09.320 And he said, no. 0.99

01:10:11.340 But then he was honest.

01:10:12.600 And I appreciate him giving this answer.

01:10:15.100 He said, no, I love my children equally.

01:10:17.180 He said, but what I will say is that the effort required to love my children equally is not the same.

01:10:25.500 So, my love for my adoptive children is equal to my love for my natural-born children.

01:10:31.880 But I have to work harder in my love for, like, with my natural-born children, I have nature working for me, which is a powerful thing.

01:10:42.760 He said, like, but it requires intent and grace and will.

01:10:48.780 I can't just rely on nature in the case of my adopted children.

01:10:52.280 So with my adoptive children, it requires more of a supernatural and conscience, deliberate decision that I have to make again and again and again.

01:11:03.160 Not that he wouldn't love them at all, but he loves his adoptive children.

01:11:07.480 But I'm having to make this conscience, deliberate choice again and again.

01:11:13.220 No, I've adopted these children.

01:11:15.580 They don't have my blood, but they bear my name.

01:11:17.920 They belong to me.

01:11:19.500 God adopted me.

01:11:21.500 He made that choice in his election and adoption of me.

01:11:25.060 He loves me, and I'm going to seek to love them as God loves me.

01:11:28.700 And so, does he love his adopted children less?

01:11:31.580 Well, in his own words, like only the Lord knows his heart, but in his own words, no.

01:11:35.140 He loves them deeply and profoundly, just as he loves his biological children.

01:11:40.060 They are his children.

01:11:42.000 Legally, by name, they are his children.

01:11:45.080 He loves them just as much as his natural-born children.

01:11:47.580 But I appreciate his honesty and being willing to admit that although he loves them just as much as his naturally born children, the effort required to love them that much is greater, that it doesn't come naturally.

01:12:02.740 It came with required more intentionality.

01:12:07.580 So that's what I would say to BJ.

01:12:10.600 BJJ wins again, as I would say.

01:12:13.580 His wife is very worried about him, the adopted embryo child,

01:12:22.580 not feeling as loved as the natural kid. 0.91

01:12:24.900 And so I would just say, tell your wife not to worry. 0.67

01:12:29.600 Wives tend to worry more than husbands. 0.92

01:12:32.740 So encourage your wife, wash her in the word.

01:12:34.800 encourage her not to worry, to be anxious for nothing, but with prayer and supplication to

01:12:38.680 make all her requests known to God. And the particular request that she should pray and

01:12:42.960 ask the Lord to help her with is, Lord, help my oldest son not to feel this way because

01:12:49.880 help it not to be true. Help me to love him the same way that I love our younger biological son

01:12:58.160 and knowing that it may require more effort and more intentionality because I can't just

01:13:04.540 bank on nature working for me, but I have to simply rest and rely upon that which is supernatural

01:13:12.880 as a Christian in grace. And so, yeah, so I'd encourage her not to worry, but whenever she

01:13:19.520 is tempted to worry, instead to pray and to ask the Lord that that older child would not feel

01:13:26.360 less love than the younger child precisely because it wouldn't be true. Ask the Lord to increase her

01:13:33.500 capacity for love and that she and you as the husband and father would be intentional

01:13:38.860 and loving both of your children yep good answer kevin ice a ten dollar super chat i'm going to

01:13:46.500 put some names in here just to kind of keep it straight so the question kind of makes sense

01:13:50.700 because he's asking about a friend situation and there's a couple people involved so kevin ice

01:13:54.540 thanks for the super chat he said a friend and let's call this doug's family a friend has a

01:13:59.260 brother we'll call this bob so doug his friend doug has a brother bob who is a man who thinks

01:14:05.680 he's a woman just put it that way bob's parents are allowing doug and bob doug and bob's parents

01:14:12.560 are allowing bob the brother who thinks he's a woman to live with them my friend that would be

01:14:17.600 doug is married with two kids so doug his friend has two children is it wrong to keep the kid away

01:14:23.040 from kids away from his parents and i think he's saying the grandparents grandparents because if

01:14:29.420 they're with the grandparents then if they're with then bob's parents the grandparents they're

01:14:33.660 also then bob will be there too the man who thinks himself a woman uh and doesn't just think but i

01:14:39.220 i think we're meant to assume from the question also is dressing like a dressing yeah uh no they

01:14:44.420 should not be around that individual no um i can give a biological reason for it so men uh we have

01:14:50.140 a number of receptors in our body. They're androgen receptors, and they're tuned to testosterone. So

01:14:54.300 there's some estrogen in a man's body, but he is tuned thoroughly, top to bottom, to receive,

01:14:59.780 respond, and be hormonally balanced with testosterone. Women, in the same way, it's

01:15:03.740 inverted. They have EHR1 and EHR2, estrogen hormone receptors, and they're tuned to estrogen. 0.86

01:15:09.280 When you introduce estrogen into a man's body, a body that is not tuned to take it into large

01:15:14.660 amount so the hormone transition you destroy him psychologically that is why these individuals

01:15:20.600 are typically violent you've taken everything that's about a physiological balanced state in

01:15:26.480 a man his energy his mood his emotions his regulation all those different things you've

01:15:33.220 taken them and the way they're supposed to be arranged the delicate balance that exists in the

01:15:37.600 brain and the body and the endocrine system you've taken it and you flooded it with something

01:15:42.400 absolutely foreign and these people generally are violent so just at that level taking that thing

01:15:49.220 you see this when people call them the wrong names or whatever they lash out it is not physically

01:15:55.500 safe to be around and I think someone else brought the spiritual component it is also terrible to be

01:16:00.740 around as an adult male who's perfectly safe I've gone on work trips and seen individuals like this

01:16:06.000 and I am disturbed and if I was in I've said this online before if I was in a restaurant and someone

01:16:11.740 like this came out to be our server i would leave if i was with my kids i wouldn't be around it and

01:16:17.240 so i get that it's grandparents but i also think especially because bob is in this case being

01:16:22.200 allowed to live with them you say we can't come over and we won't go over and we think that you

01:16:27.560 should encourage bob to stop living this lie right and and hold it as a prerequisite that if he

01:16:33.660 chooses not to then i'm sorry we love you you're our child but um we cannot support you in this

01:16:40.840 life sense. So if you're not willing to change, then you have to move out. And in the meantime,

01:16:45.000 what you could do also with the grandparents is you said, we can't come there because

01:16:48.280 Bob is there, but, uh, but you can come and visit the grandkids without Bob here at our house,

01:16:53.100 you know, so you could have some kind of, you know, honoring your, your parents in that sense.

01:16:58.280 And then the only thing that I was going to add to it is just, um, more of, um, a little bit more

01:17:04.740 of like the, the spiritual theological side, but, um, it's, you know, uh, just, just like with

01:17:09.720 anything else so like you know families extended family can always be uh challenging and um but

01:17:16.960 like let's say you have you know you have kids and then you have a brother you have a sister

01:17:22.240 let's say a brother you have a brother and so it's your kid's uncle and you only see him once

01:17:26.960 or twice a year and let's say that he's not a christian he's not a believer and he curses like

01:17:31.320 a sailor well you can talk to him you know before the next thanksgiving you know when when you're

01:17:38.080 all going to be together and the kids are going to be, you know, in his presence for, you know,

01:17:42.160 three days straight or whatever it is. And you can talk to him, you know, preemptively and say,

01:17:46.460 hey, look, our kids, we have young children and we are respectively requesting that you would

01:17:53.680 honor our kids and honor us by not cursing in front of our kids. And you can say that. And

01:18:00.180 hopefully, you know, even as a non-Christian, hopefully he would be respectful enough to 0.95

01:18:04.340 oblige and say, okay, you know, that's fair. That checks out. I understand. I won't be 0.99

01:18:09.360 dropping F-bombs in front of your three-year-old. It's like, thanks. And so then you can go to

01:18:14.540 Thanksgiving, and here's the deal. On the inside, internally, he's still an unbeliever. He hates 0.90

01:18:22.860 God. He's going to hell, and he is someone who curses like a sailor. And so he's still a sinner, 1.00

01:18:29.440 and for that matter we're all sinners

01:18:31.660 but he's particularly a sinner

01:18:33.800 and in a state of sin

01:18:35.900 but he's not actively sinning

01:18:38.380 he's not actively sinning

01:18:40.880 in front of your children

01:18:41.940 so you have a sinner 1.00

01:18:43.300 who's going to be with you

01:18:45.800 being present as well

01:18:46.900 who's going to be in the presence of your children

01:18:48.760 but you're not permitting him 1.00

01:18:50.560 you're permitting a sinner 0.94

01:18:51.820 to be present with your children

01:18:53.500 but you're not permitting someone to sin

01:18:56.080 in the presence of your children

01:18:58.560 and there is a difference, right?

01:19:00.760 So, like, we've talked about this even, you know,

01:19:02.460 as elders and deacons with our church.

01:19:05.000 We even had, you know, some of the members of our church ask,

01:19:07.220 like, what would our policy be?

01:19:08.340 Like, if somebody, you know, if someone, again,

01:19:11.360 trying to avoid the word for the sake of the algorithm

01:19:13.680 with social media and all that kind of stuff,

01:19:14.960 but if a man who thinks he's a woman

01:19:17.320 and dresses like a woman, if he shows up to church,

01:19:20.960 if somebody like that shows up to church, 0.97

01:19:23.820 what are we going to do, you know?

01:19:25.060 Like, would we pull them aside?

01:19:27.080 and what we've told them

01:19:30.300 and what we've decided

01:19:31.040 is there's a difference

01:19:32.020 in somebody who is gay

01:19:33.840 if a gay man comes to church

01:19:37.000 and assuming he's not there 1.00

01:19:38.400 to be hostile

01:19:41.280 but he's like

01:19:42.620 I actually want to see

01:19:44.540 what this is about

01:19:45.240 I'm not a Christian

01:19:46.100 I'm a gay man

01:19:47.740 but I'm going to show up 1.00

01:19:49.360 and I'm going to sit

01:19:49.900 and I'm going to listen to the sermon

01:19:50.960 and I want to see what's going on

01:19:52.100 well a gay man

01:19:54.080 can show up to church

01:19:56.000 as someone who is in a state of sin, in that lifestyle, but he's not sinning at church.

01:20:02.680 In that moment.

01:20:03.680 In that moment, exactly. Like, he can show up alone, and he's not, you know, in a public,

01:20:11.760 visible, external way, sinning in front of everybody who's present. But the person who

01:20:19.460 thinks that they're the opposite sex, and walks, and talks, and dresses as though they're of the 0.67

01:20:24.760 opposite sex, that person, it's not just that they're in a lifestyle of sin, but they are 0.50

01:20:31.220 sinning, actively sinning in the church service. And so it applies across the board, even for 0.93

01:20:38.680 Christians, for members of the church. Like, everybody who goes to our church, and any church

01:20:43.280 for that matter, is a sinner, including me. Everybody's a sinner. So sinners get to go to

01:20:49.260 church, but you don't get to sin at church, certainly not publicly and in a witnessable,

01:20:56.600 visible fashion. So we have people in our church who, everybody's a sinner, but nobody, even if

01:21:02.100 you're a Christian and you're heterosexual and you're a member in good standing, you don't get

01:21:07.660 to go to church and shout the F-bomb in the middle of the sermon. Nobody gets to do that.

01:21:13.960 And so in the same way, you don't get to visibly, publicly sin.

01:21:20.320 There's a difference in being a sinner versus sinning.

01:21:23.980 Nobody gets to visibly, publicly sin at church in a way that would be distracting and jarring for everyone who's there.

01:21:37.060 And so that's what makes the situation unique when it comes to not just, you know, this person, you know, occasionally steals or this person occasionally curses or this person even is, you know, is gay or this, you know, like what's so unique about this particular sin is you're talking about with this particular sin, you're not just in a state of sin, but you are 24-7 actively sinning all the time.

01:22:06.500 lying about who you are and who God made you to be. That's right. You are publicly, visibly, 0.65

01:22:12.240 for every single person who can see you, you are actively sinning. You are portraying something

01:22:19.960 that is perverse, something that is unnatural, something that is against the Word of God.

01:22:25.740 You are lying. You are practicing deception. You're being manipulative. You're being confusing

01:22:31.720 and deceiving. And so I think that is a fair, I will leave it there, but just a rule of thumb,

01:22:39.980 pretty simple, pretty fair, but rule of thumb for parents is nobody, whether it's your family

01:22:48.680 member who's a Christian or a family member who's not a Christian, whether it's this or that,

01:22:52.440 it doesn't matter. As a parent, nobody, no person has the right, nobody is permitted the right to 0.67

01:23:05.020 sin in front of your kids. You as a parent are allowed to say, no, I'm not going to allow a

01:23:14.740 bunch of people who are blackout drunk to come over to the house in front of our kids. I'm not

01:23:20.540 going to allow you won't be here or i won't be there that's you're leaving or i'm going exactly

01:23:25.200 and unfortunately with this particular sin that's what it's the equivalent of it's the equivalent

01:23:29.760 not just of being in a state of sin but it's the equivalent of actively continually sinning

01:23:35.660 and uh and there's your kids will notice my i've been in those environments um unfortunately and

01:23:43.300 my my three-year-old i remember my distinctly like it's etched in my mind my three-year-old

01:23:49.120 daughter looking, you know, kind of tilting her head and confused and not understanding why is

01:23:55.600 there, I know that that's a man, but he's wearing makeup and yeah, you don't subject your children

01:24:02.580 to that. That is, that's their problem. That's their fault. They made that choice. Uh, and,

01:24:07.900 and you are not being hateful or disrespectful. Um, your obligation is not to a deluded person's

01:24:14.900 fantasies and

01:24:16.940 assuaging their conscience. Your

01:24:18.920 obligation is to your children.

01:24:21.820 And dads, this is why you need to be

01:24:23.220 big and intimidating and

01:24:25.180 carry that when that happens

01:24:26.980 you can stand up and

01:24:29.060 kids, go to the car.

01:24:31.180 And I'm going to do whatever needs

01:24:33.140 to be done. Say no. Ask them to

01:24:35.100 back off. Ben

01:24:36.620 Huffstether. A steady,

01:24:39.760 generous,

01:24:41.120 wonderful man. Ben is just,

01:24:42.740 he's the man single-handedly funding right response ministries hundred dollars super

01:24:46.840 super chat thank you ben all right ben said stay strong brothers appreciate you all appreciate you

01:24:51.860 as well ben question can a divorced man be above reproach to obtaining eldership or pastoral

01:24:56.960 leadership again divorce it sounds like in this case was forced on him by unbelieving x

01:25:01.480 that's a tough one i've thought about that and spoken to it a little bit in the past um

01:25:08.500 So, you know, the qualification that it comes down to is husband of one wife.

01:25:12.300 And so, like, what does that mean?

01:25:13.540 Some people take it to mean that elders have to be married, you know, because if, so even if you're not divorced, but you have no wife, you're just a single man, that a single man can't be an elder because he doesn't have one wife.

01:25:24.400 He has zero wives.

01:25:25.440 And then others take it to apply to, you know, a prohibition against polygamy, you know, that would, you know, would be relevant.

01:25:33.680 And if you're, for instance, you're doing, you know, church planting in, you know, an Islamic nation and somebody has, you know, or for that matter, you know, back in the day in Utah, you know, with Mormons, you know, somebody happens to have, you know, three wives or whatever.

01:25:49.180 Right.

01:25:49.580 And you would say, okay, well, you can come to Christ.

01:25:51.720 You can be, you can be a Christian.

01:25:53.840 You can even be a church member, but you can't be an elder.

01:25:56.900 I was about to say, probably in those cases, too, the man would stay in those marriages and continue to provide for those women.

01:26:01.160 He just could never be an elder.

01:26:02.380 Exactly.

01:26:02.860 Yep.

01:26:03.020 So what does Christ call me to?

01:26:05.340 I'm a man who's been married three times.

01:26:08.700 I currently have three wives.

01:26:10.140 What does the Bible say to me?

01:26:12.380 And the answer would be, and I know it offends our sensibilities,

01:26:16.200 but as far as I can ascertain from the scripture,

01:26:18.640 the answer would be, okay, well then you need to be a faithful husband

01:26:21.420 to all three of your wives without showing favoritism

01:26:24.680 and providing and protecting all three of them equally and fairly

01:26:29.380 as the Lord would have you, willing to lay down your life

01:26:31.400 for, for all three of them as Christ loves the church. Uh, but this is a terrible picture of

01:26:36.720 the gospel because Christ has one bride. Um, and, uh, and, and also your hands are full. You've got

01:26:43.340 three women to please three, you know, like, like the Bible talks about the, you know, the man who's 0.94

01:26:47.140 married, his interests are divided. Well, your, your interests are divided three times. Can you

01:26:51.060 imagine? Exactly. So, so you don't get to be a pastor. So, so one woman, man, what does that

01:26:56.220 mean? You know, elder must be, you know, the man about one wife. Some would say, well, he's got to

01:27:01.300 be married. You can't, you can't be single. Some would say, well, he can't be in a polygamous

01:27:05.620 marriage. He has to have one wife. And then others would say, not just, you know, having zero wives 0.99

01:27:10.460 or simultaneously two or three wives, but that he can't have had more than one wife, even not

01:27:16.260 simultaneously, but over the course of his life by virtue of divorce and remarriage. You know,

01:27:22.400 And so some take that approach.

01:27:24.380 And then others, what's probably the most common interpretation, at least in modern times, is that it's just the mark of a man, that he's a one-woman man.

01:27:34.640 He's the type of person who models fidelity and those kinds of things, which I get.

01:27:44.660 For myself personally, early on, I got married when I was 29 years old.

01:27:52.400 And, uh, and early on, you know, me and my college buddies, when we moved across from

01:27:57.300 Texas, you know, to California, cause we wanted a church, you know, church plant, we, we weren't

01:28:01.660 church planters.

01:28:02.440 We were LARPing.

01:28:03.000 It was all a joke.

01:28:03.740 But when we did that, um, I was not, you know, I didn't get married until later.

01:28:08.340 And, uh, and I just, you know, looking at that, I would say like, yeah, that, that was 0.99

01:28:12.480 stupid. 1.00

01:28:12.980 That was foolish. 1.00

01:28:13.700 Could anybody do it? 1.00

01:28:15.840 Like, could somebody do it?

01:28:17.700 You're saying could some single man be an equipped pastor?

01:28:20.420 I couldn't, but could someone do it? Maybe. I think the gift of celibacy is exceedingly rare. I think it's abundantly rare, but there is a biblical category for it.

01:28:33.500 um, it does exist. Um, you know, and so I, I think, you know, so I'm hesitant. My point is,

01:28:39.960 I'm hesitant to, to make a, an ironclad, you know, rule that, um, that no single man,

01:28:46.640 there can never be any circumstance ever in any place at any time where a single man,

01:28:50.660 um, you know, could be an elder. So I'm not sure, uh, in terms of the divorce,

01:28:55.580 particularly to the question that was asked, I don't know. It's, it's tough because it's like,

01:29:00.340 you've had one wife, you've divorced and remarried. And I'm assuming, you know, like your wife left

01:29:05.220 you. So you go to like first Corinthians, I think it would be chapter seven, you know, like if you're

01:29:10.140 married to an unbeliever, you know, but they're willing to remain with you, then you should 0.99

01:29:13.840 remain with them. You know, but if they leave you, uh, allowing them to go in order to strive to be 0.98

01:29:19.640 at peace with all men. And so there's a difference in, you know, them leaving you abandonment.

01:29:24.620 I see those as the two biblical clauses for divorce is, um, adultery and abandonment,

01:29:30.840 adultery and abandonment. So if they've abandoned you, um, and, and you were patient, right? You

01:29:36.940 didn't just turn around the next day, you know, but like, but you've been patient and you've been

01:29:40.680 waiting and, um, and, you know, calling them to repentance and you've pursued and all these kinds

01:29:46.400 of things, but it's been years and they, they legally divorced you. I think in the state of

01:29:50.220 Texas. Uh, it can be not only no fault divorce, but one party, uh, you can divorce the other

01:29:55.200 without ever having their consent. They don't have to actually agree. And so they've, they've

01:30:00.860 legally divorced you. Um, you tried, you did everything you can. And, uh, and so it was,

01:30:06.360 you know, adultery and abandonment. Um, it was, you know, a biblical, um, allowance for that

01:30:12.480 divorce. Um, you know, are, are you free first? Are you free to remarry? Uh, I've, I did a whole

01:30:18.840 sermon on divorce, and I gave my opinion on this, but short answer is yes. Calvin held, actually,

01:30:24.580 John Calvin held yes as his position as well. So I would say yes, you are in those cases free to

01:30:29.420 remarry. If it was not a biblical divorce without biblical cause, then no, you're not free to

01:30:33.680 remarry. But in those cases where it was, then you can remarry. So then the final question is,

01:30:38.820 and then can you be a pastor? And I don't know. You're now on your second wife. You've had two

01:30:45.860 wives. You don't have two wives simultaneously, so you have one wife, and that first covenant 0.95

01:30:52.520 has been sufficiently severed and ended by your spouse, not by you, but your spouse. They cut off 0.82

01:30:59.100 that covenant, they ended the covenant, and then you entered into a new covenant. You don't have

01:31:04.660 two open covenants simultaneously, a new covenant, one wife. I don't know. I've heard guys argue both 0.97

01:31:11.280 sides and um i'm not completely convinced one way or the other what do you think i mean i do hold i

01:31:18.940 would say that an elder has to be married like you said well what about apostle paul paul wasn't

01:31:23.660 doing local church ministry right he was an apostle he was an apostle yeah so uh i and again

01:31:28.500 speaking from practical experience it's tough to imagine i've never met a man that's single and has

01:31:34.460 met all those qualifications across time and you just look back and like that was a great idea five

01:31:38.660 years really good job um as far as the divorced same as you it's it's tough to tell like it does

01:31:45.060 violate the the one woman like at one point the man was bound to multiple and someone severed it

01:31:52.280 and uh i i think situation would dictate too you know like are you getting someone from from

01:31:58.480 seminary you know or i guess i should say are there a number of candidates and this is one of

01:32:03.300 them or are you on the mission field and the best person in the village that's qualified in every

01:32:07.580 other respects happens to be divorced for one reason or another so wisdom prudence would dictate

01:32:12.600 um bible nor church history seems to clearly say one way or the other yep yep all right next we've

01:32:22.900 got philip schneider he's been super active in the chat 10 pounds 10 pounds he said this is from

01:32:29.360 philip thanks philip i want to know your opinions on children having electronic devices especially

01:32:33.800 below and during teenage years thank you for being a role model to me in the rest of the chat thanks

01:32:38.180 philip i appreciate that um there does come a point once your teens are driving that they

01:32:42.780 probably do need a phone um it doesn't have to be a smartphone maps

01:32:47.920 you think printers are reliable enough today

01:32:57.520 to print out maps to go to my friend's house um that's a tough one yeah kids do not need

01:33:05.760 unfettered access to the internet that's like 14 and below 15 and below yeah kids no kids for sure

01:33:11.420 when you get into those later years i do think there's something to be said for like the last

01:33:16.920 couple of years um saying okay like we're not going to officially have a curfew we're not

01:33:21.660 officially going to do and you're basically allowing the child um a greater degree of freedom

01:33:27.400 but while they still are within the confines of having the safety of mom and dad and suicide

01:33:32.340 so that way it's it's not just like their first time of unfettered freedom is also you know synced

01:33:38.180 up with a stage of life where mom and dad are are not there you know so you're actually allowing

01:33:43.900 them to practice liberty and to practice you know responsibility you're taking the guardrails off

01:33:50.360 before they're out from underneath your eye, you know, so while they're still there, when you can 0.98

01:33:55.080 still run to their defense and their protection and their help, uh, but, but removing the bumpers

01:34:00.100 and allowing them to, um, to practice. And so I think, you know, there, there can be an argument

01:34:04.760 for that. I've heard that applied to curfew, you know, for like the last two years, uh, that a

01:34:09.760 child's under your roof or whatever. Um, in terms of applied to smartphones, um, I, yeah, I don't

01:34:18.320 know i i don't know i that's kind of how we start off with the episode is like my oldest is seven

01:34:24.340 right your oldest is what two three three three and a half and we we preface the episode by saying

01:34:30.080 like that's you know that's kind of like what we would need michael for you know but he's out of

01:34:33.380 town this week so i don't i don't want to speak you know too michael did something cool he has a

01:34:37.720 son and a daughter that are about that age and they actually share a phone and just in the kind

01:34:41.440 of way that there'd be nothing that they could hide he's also not you know having to go through

01:34:44.980 it so there's different things like that you can say hey i've got twins or i've got two kids that

01:34:48.720 are coming of age they work they drive to friends houses like they just they need to be able to take

01:34:53.560 calls see where they're at but you'll share a phone and that way there's a kind of accountability

01:34:57.600 built in so it depends on the kid it depends on the phone like a gab phone that has phone

01:35:03.080 messages and location no internet browsing no video that that could be 12 or something like

01:35:08.900 that every kid goes to a christian school to text mom and daddy pick me up there isn't a blanket

01:35:12.880 age there isn't a blanket requirement it's not like you can have it at 14 and a half and you

01:35:17.160 have to have covenant eyes which is a good idea that just it really depends and so there's not

01:35:21.780 a hard and fast answer but the later i would say the better generally speaking more cautious with

01:35:27.040 boys than with girls and um also paired probably with with other liberties and being careful with

01:35:34.260 all right am i giving them a phone and curfew and they have their driver's license and they have

01:35:38.180 money and a job this is all happening in one month or is there a way to leading up to it

01:35:42.540 kind of give that freedom yeah yep all right let's see if we can hit one more we had a number

01:35:48.620 of super chats apologies to anyone we weren't able to get to let's get to a jeff halfley question

01:35:52.500 okay good old jeff jeff thanks for the super chat 999 i think another 299 one elsewhere

01:35:57.340 jeff asked parents use the least amount of force in history today are we moving towards a better

01:36:02.800 form of highly restrained corporal punishment as the ideal are we in sin for not using the

01:36:07.720 old-time methods followed up is that our christian great-grandparents would cause total wimps for not

01:36:12.060 using belts on bare skin were they wrong or are we both are correct i think as in a hundred years

01:36:21.300 ago your grandparents worked on a farm you were out there milking cows at 6 a.m and moving hay

01:36:26.180 bales putting up fence stacks and then you ran off or whatever and grandpa you know did what he did

01:36:32.040 and took you to the woodshed,

01:36:34.280 in that hypothetical scenario,

01:36:36.680 there's totally scenarios where that would make sense.

01:36:39.520 And then today, not at all using those means

01:36:41.480 because you don't work on a farm,

01:36:42.940 your kids aren't hardy,

01:36:43.740 and all of those, also not wrong either.

01:36:46.060 So I think in a sense,

01:36:47.120 there's a time and place

01:36:48.060 where our grandparents lived a harsher life,

01:36:50.520 and so the means of disciplines they used

01:36:52.480 look harsher to us now,

01:36:54.560 but they were not necessarily wrong,

01:36:56.620 and yet we too are not necessarily wrong.

01:36:59.240 We're being biblical, we're doing it well,

01:37:01.140 as we said you're applying something temporary

01:37:03.720 instead of any type of permanent harm

01:37:05.360 abuse or damage I think both could be

01:37:07.560 wrong and also or both could be

01:37:09.560 right and both could be wrong

01:37:10.860 grandpa could have been too hard and then we could have been

01:37:13.480 too soft even now

01:37:14.360 yeah that's probably fair

01:37:16.620 we're definitely too soft

01:37:19.260 so that one I think for sure

01:37:20.720 today we just

01:37:23.500 we hate kids

01:37:24.840 the bible says the one who doesn't

01:37:27.300 discipline and spares the rod hates 1.00

01:37:28.760 the child and so I think

01:37:30.440 you know, on the whole, in general, we are in a generation of parents that, according to biblical

01:37:38.360 definitions, really do hate their children by sparing and neglecting. Ultimately, it's neglect

01:37:44.720 and a lack of love, discipline. So I think, you know, I don't know. I mean, I look at, you know,

01:37:51.420 the history and the things that I am able to find from past generations, and overall,

01:37:57.180 they were better than us on basically every single metric. So, um, overall, whatever they

01:38:04.520 were doing, uh, I don't think it's as bad as what we're doing today. Um, so I think, uh, but that

01:38:09.380 doesn't mean what they were doing was perfect and had no room for improvement. So I don't feel

01:38:13.380 comfortable just saying, you know, like, yeah, like whatever, you know, whatever they did was

01:38:17.980 absolutely infallible and perfect. And we have to do exactly that. So I, that would not be my

01:38:22.620 position. But I would say that, um, that, uh, in general, you know, obviously you're always going

01:38:29.100 to be able to find, you know, exceptions and isolated cases where it really was abuse or it

01:38:33.740 really was this, or it really was that. But in general, the generation, um, that, that disciplined

01:38:39.680 their kids and use spanking and some of them a little bit less, you know, orthodox means of

01:38:45.080 spanking than others, that generation still on the whole, I think produced in their children

01:38:50.560 a greater degree of virtue um and responsibility and duty and sacrifice and not just due to the

01:38:59.180 way they discipline but more broadly yeah their education and their teaching and instruction and

01:39:04.120 and uh christian christian character but it produced it produced um better people than i

01:39:10.320 think what we're producing today so yeah so i think you know probably uh probably some problems

01:39:16.680 on both sides um but i think the the bigger problem is uh the problem of no discipline at all

01:39:24.840 and honestly like if that was our biggest problem we'd probably be in better shape but today like

01:39:31.000 that's not even our biggest problem isn't just no discipline at all our like we quickly are getting

01:39:35.920 to the point where our biggest problem is no no children at all right we don't even have kids

01:39:40.560 much less you know neglect to discipline them so all right well that's uh that's our episode

01:39:46.580 i hope you guys enjoyed it hope you found it helpful uh michael will be back with us next

01:39:51.600 week uh tonight uh there's no friday special this week we're in between seasons we'll pick

01:39:56.880 the friday special up with the first friday of april season two with dr stephen wolf and myself

01:40:01.460 on christian nationalism and uh in the meantime the next thing that you'll see from us will be

01:40:07.440 our live stream on Monday at 3 p.m. Central Time. We hope to see you there. God bless.

The NXR Podcast - March 14, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - Practical Parenting Principles

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