The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Should Erika Kirk Forgive Her Husband’s Killer？

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00:00:30.000 many of you saw the memorial for charlie kirk this past sunday just yesterday there were many

00:00:39.220 different speakers who were represented at this memorial and some of them by god's grace preached

00:00:45.380 the gospel faithfully tucker carlson was one of them he mentioned the word repentance more than

00:00:50.960 all the other speakers arguably combined and certainly more than a big eva pastor would

00:00:56.680 typically do in his sermon. So we're grateful for Tucker Carlson and his presentation of the gospel.

00:01:02.760 There were many others who were represented at this memorial who also preached a hot gospel.

00:01:08.260 And by God's grace, our prayer is that thousands and even tens of thousands, especially when you

00:01:14.100 think about the fact that many people, not only in the United States, but around the world,

00:01:17.840 were streaming this memorial service. Our prayer is that perhaps even hundreds of thousands or even

00:01:23.160 millions were truly born again by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. So we're grateful

00:01:28.580 for the things that took place, but there is kind of a buzzing question in the aftermath of

00:01:34.800 yesterday's memorial service for Charlie Kirk. And that question is, does Christianity actually

00:01:41.800 possess the fortitude, a theological mechanism for sustaining the West as it faces many enemies,

00:01:51.480 both domestic and abroad. Does this bring us back to a place of suicidal empathy? Is Christianity

00:02:00.400 perhaps even to blame? Not the West falling because it apostatized from Christ, but the West 0.90

00:02:07.600 actually falling and being on the decline, as we currently are, because of its Christianity. Is 0.88

00:02:13.380 there something innate to the Christian faith that makes the civilizations which it builds

00:02:20.140 also at the same time susceptible to vulnerability and weakness to be taken over by others. What do

00:02:26.860 we do with Christ's command to turn the other cheek when we're struck on the first cheek?

00:02:33.620 What do we do with the idea that we should go the second mile? Now, what do we do with

00:02:39.240 all the principles of forgiveness that someone could wrong us, and not only once or twice,

00:02:45.720 but as Jesus even says to the disciples when they question him, they say, Rabbi, if my brother sins

00:02:52.180 against me seven times, should I still forgive him? And Jesus answers by saying, I tell you not

00:02:58.140 seven times, but 70 times seven. Does this make the West just a sitting duck to be taken constantly

00:03:10.060 advantage of by everyone else, by foreigners, by immigration, by Muslims, by Jews, by just bad 0.98

00:03:18.360 actors and degenerates within even our own society. What do we do with this Christian rhetoric? We 0.95

00:03:24.360 know that it's biblical. We know that it is true to the Christian faith, that the Christian faith

00:03:29.720 is a faith of grace. It is a faith of mercy. It is a faith where we are commanded by our Lord and

00:03:37.360 Savior, to forgive those who wrong us. So how do we obey Christ in this regard, but at the same time

00:03:43.940 not simply fall on our sword as a society and squander all the many blessings that God has

00:03:50.920 given us? How do we ensure that our children are protected and have a future, and that the West

00:03:56.940 continues to succeed rather than fail, and yet at the same time exercise mercy and grace? We're

00:04:04.720 particularly going to be honing in on Erica Kirk, Charlie's widow, who spoke very eloquently

00:04:12.400 and said many wonderful things for which we are grateful for. She also, during her speech at the

00:04:18.420 memorial service, said one very poignant thing that stuck with most people that many are talking

00:04:26.020 about today. There's a point in her speech where she says, I forgive him. I forgive him, speaking

00:04:33.580 of her husband's murderer. What do we do with this? Is this good? Is this bad? How do we live

00:04:42.640 in light of forgiving those who murder our family, obeying the command of Christ to exercise

00:04:50.480 forgiveness, and yet at the same time, not making ourselves vulnerable to simply be destroyed by

00:04:57.700 every bad actor? That's what we're going to focus on in the show today. Tune in now.

00:05:03.580 all right all right we are back welcome back another monday yep welcome back it is monday

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00:06:30.200 but also you need to retweet it. Share the video. We appreciate it very, very much. All right. In

00:06:36.020 light of what Erica Kirk said on Sunday, let's start the conversation right here. I tweeted out

00:06:41.600 the following. Here's a tweet from me. I said, the wife of a murdered husband can forgive her

00:06:48.880 husband's killer if she desires. That's number one. Number two, the wife must forgive if the

00:06:55.980 killer truly repents and asks for her forgiveness. Number three, the civil magistrates, right,

00:07:02.980 Christians have to begin to think in categories, the civil magistrate being a different piece on 0.99

00:07:08.060 the board. This is not the widowed wife. This is not someone who's been personally offended. 0.95

00:07:12.780 this is someone ordained by God to be his vengeance against the evildoer, to not bear

00:07:19.740 the sword in vain, to carry out justice, the civil magistrate must not forgive. He must not forgive,

00:07:28.020 for he is God's vessel for vengeance. He must execute. Execute justice, yes, but also literally 0.84

00:07:35.940 execute. When it comes to a murderer, that is a capital crime, and it merits a capital punishment.

00:07:42.160 if it is a murder a capital crime that happens at a national level with a public national figure

00:07:48.580 as it did occur in the case of charlie kirk then i believe that that capital punishment it should be

00:07:54.240 just fair trial swift right if justice is delayed deuteronomy says then evil doers will spring up

00:08:02.700 they'll take that as a license to do more evil look somebody got away with murder so it needs

00:08:07.680 to be proportional justice. It needs to be fair justice. There's a fair trial. It needs to be

00:08:12.900 swift justice, not delayed. And if it's a public national crime, like the case of the assassination

00:08:20.300 of Charlie Kirk, then that justice should be carried out publicly. What do I mean? I'll speak

00:08:26.000 in no uncertain terms. I believe that Charlie Kirk's murderer should be put to death and that 0.99

00:08:33.180 his execution should be publicly nationally televised nobody has to tune in nobody has to 0.60

00:08:41.220 watch parents with children you don't necessarily need to put your kids in front of the tv and make

00:08:45.940 them open their eyes but i do think that that execution that capital punishment for a capital

00:08:51.340 crime with a national level crime that that justice should be carried out nationally and

00:08:56.980 publicly where everyone is able to witness it if they so desire we all saw him get shot that's most

00:09:03.040 of us picked up our phone be it twitter be it instagram we saw the crime took place we were

00:09:07.720 exposed to it so in the same way the justice proportionally would literally be again

00:09:11.880 in front of everyone here's the wickedness he did you all saw it that's right here's the justice

00:09:16.200 being administered it's good for the public to see if they so desire that's up to them their own

00:09:21.900 volition uh but more importantly arguably it is good for others who have murderous hearts who may

00:09:29.440 be thinking of carrying out wicked deeds against conservatives, against Christians, it's good for

00:09:35.740 them to see. That's one of the things that stops future crime. People say, well, the capital

00:09:40.840 punishment, it does not seek or even attempt to rehabilitate the criminal. Correct. But what it

00:09:48.960 does do is it dissuades other criminals from doing the same thing. There are other people

00:09:55.720 right now i mean you saw the left and and many thousands this is not hyperbole thousands of

00:10:02.340 people's reaction to the murder of charlie kirk for thousands of people in our country it was

00:10:08.440 absolute glee they were elated they were joyful i mean some of them tears of joy they loved seeing

00:10:19.320 a father and husband's blood come out of his neck as he falls over in front of his wife

00:10:26.280 and children. They applauded it. They love it. They love it. And it would be good for them

00:10:33.120 because some of them have murder in their hearts and they actually are designing, some of them,

00:10:39.900 whether it be in some discord app or whatever, some of them are right now planning and plotting

00:10:45.700 to do something like that again and for them to be inhibited by seeing publicly nationally

00:10:53.240 televised this is the consequence for anyone who would do something so wicked and heinous

00:10:58.880 that is a grace to our society at large that is one of the ways to protect the innocent

00:11:05.280 is to swiftly and justly and publicly punish the guilty when you publicly and swiftly and justly

00:11:13.100 punish the guilty it sets up a hedge an inhibition and a hedge around the innocent so that other

00:11:20.720 wicked people would not do likewise i like that you said impersonal as it relates to the state

00:11:25.540 and the magistrate administering justice we actually have these categories in law where

00:11:29.440 there's one thing if you were to press charges i could press charges against someone for like

00:11:34.040 five hundred dollars yep the district attorney is not going to care they're not going to bring

00:11:37.060 the whole force in but this crime the state is coming in saying i don't even care if you want

00:11:42.220 to press charges or not, Erica, we as the state see this as so severe and so violent that we will

00:11:47.960 be pressing charges. We will collect the evidence. Even if you yourself personally, well, I forgive

00:11:53.580 and I wouldn't want to do this. The state itself comes in and says, we personally, we're not

00:11:57.480 offended. The United States federal government in the death of Charlie Kirk, nothing actually

00:12:01.680 happened to him. He was a friend of it, but the state itself in the interest of common order,

00:12:05.720 even still in our time says, we're going to take it from here. Whether you would press charges or

00:12:09.660 not we have responsibility because of the severity of this crime to carry out justice in an impartial

00:12:15.160 manner regardless of if you forgive or not and in that regard there was something that happened

00:12:19.740 yesterday in this memorial service for charlie kirk between erica and donald trump and i'm not

00:12:24.740 talking about the moment where they hugged each other that was sweet i appreciate that i'm not

00:12:28.860 talking about that i'm talking about independently of one another something that trump said in his

00:12:32.580 speech and then something that erica said in hers we've already addressed what erica said i'm

00:12:36.840 speaking particularly about her saying I forgive him I forgive my husband's murderer okay but

00:12:43.060 there's something that also happened in Trump's speech now I'm going to go ahead and step out on

00:12:47.800 a limb and say this because this is what I believe and and I think that it's worth saying

00:12:52.680 Trump's speech was was not that good it wasn't Donald J Trump I voted for him I don't regret

00:13:03.180 that decision. And yeah, I voted for him. But I said during the election season, during his

00:13:13.580 campaign, as I said publicly that I was going to vote for Donald Trump, I said, I'm going to vote

00:13:19.160 for him. But then as a minister, as a husband and a father, and most importantly, simply as a

00:13:24.080 Christian man and a citizen of these United States, if he's elected into office, the moment

00:13:29.500 that he is, if he does not do what God wills, deis volt, if he does not do what God wills,

00:13:37.680 I'm going to be one of the first and one of the loudest to call him to account. And the reality

00:13:43.460 is we simply have to recognize that so far with the last nine months of Trump's presidency,

00:13:49.060 there's been a lot of bark and far too little bite. We do not have anything close to mass

00:13:55.060 deportations even what we saw recently over the weekend in regards to h1b visas we all got excited 0.99

00:14:01.740 and i have to admit i have to admit i think i may have racked up another fell for it again award

00:14:07.420 it's in the mail it's getting it's in the mail it's on its way here i'm ashamed uh it's a piece

00:14:12.600 of mail that i don't want to be delivered but i have to admit um i earned it you'll you'll see it

00:14:17.860 back behind us on the studio as soon as it arrives i'm sure it's first class shipping um joel webin

00:14:23.720 fail uh he fell for it again award uh donald trump said hundred thousand dollars that's what

00:14:28.940 we heard hundred thousand dollar fee and i was under the impression from what was said that it

00:14:34.720 was going to be annual reoccurring fee he said annual fee an annual hundred thousand dollar fee

00:14:40.500 for every h1b worker right if india is truly filled with the most genius people on god's 0.89

00:14:49.320 green earth and we can't beat china in the tech race without them and all of civilization in the 0.94

00:14:54.600 west will utterly collapse without the the the god-ordained geniuses in india being hired by 1.00

00:15:03.120 our tech companies if that's the case then surely it's worth a hundred thousand dollars they can

00:15:07.840 come here make five hundred thousand dollars take one hundred thousand renew that visa right exactly

00:15:11.860 h1b is a skilled worker visa that's right this is not dairy queen this is not pickleball coaching

00:15:16.340 this is skilled workers or cricket coaching or cricket coaching believe it or not yeah believe

00:15:20.760 it let's talk about uh the circle of life right lion king the circle of life british colonizes

00:15:26.200 india teaches them cricket and now india is colonizing the west and bringing cricket back

00:15:31.280 i mean it's it's one of those things it's like on one hand i'm like this is beautiful you know

00:15:35.620 it's just the circle of colonization on the other hand i'm actually furious so uh it's actually not

00:15:41.060 beautiful at all, they need to go home. They need to go home. But if, Wes is absolutely right, if it

00:15:46.960 is the case that Americans, because this is pretty much the rhetoric that we saw over Christmas,

00:15:52.560 and you can't forget these things, guys, don't have a 15-minute memory. You need to remember

00:15:57.700 that over Christmas, the celebration of the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in a Christian

00:16:02.620 nation these united states of america both vivek ramaswamy and elon musk were uh cursing

00:16:11.160 and on twitter and yelling and saying we have to have the h1b visas particularly referencing india

00:16:20.580 we've got to have them or we or we can't function here here's what i what i suspect my prediction

00:16:26.820 if trump actually held his own feet to the fire and if it really was a reoccurring hundred thousand

00:16:32.480 dollar fee for each of these h1b visas of these you know these you know einsteins from india

00:16:40.760 apparently that's what i've been told um then one that should be a drop in the bucket to get such

00:16:46.100 skilled incredible labor and two um they should not be threatened by that at all and be willing

00:16:53.000 to do it but what i suspect is that if trump actually held to this and he's not now i hope

00:16:58.300 he goes back flip-flop flip-flop this is why we chimp right chimp praise chimp praise chimp praise

00:17:03.220 rinse and repeat that's your job citizen patriot that's your job trump good trump praise bad trump 0.69

00:17:10.580 chimp good trump praise bad trump chimp you are a patriot this is your job you are saving the west 0.59

00:17:17.920 don't get lax don't get lazy keep it up but if trump was to flip-flop again and go back and say

00:17:25.040 all right we're going to do the hundred thousand annual fee this is what i think you would hear

00:17:28.720 from elon and from vivek and from others all of a sudden you would hear the rhetoric shift and

00:17:34.200 they'd say you know what turns out we did a little bit more research and turns out americans aren't 1.00

00:17:38.840 lazy and stupid and dumb it turns out that per capita there are more geniuses here in america 0.99

00:17:45.400 than any other country and by far more than india and we're doing just fine and it turns out that 1.00

00:17:53.680 hiring Indians was not because of their gargantuan intellect, but rather it was because this is a 0.57

00:18:00.540 $100,000 job for an American, but we could pay them $65,000 to $70,000. And they'd be happy.

00:18:06.380 And they'd be happy. And now that it costs $165,000 to $170,000 because of this added $100,000

00:18:12.440 fee, we have seen the light and we have rediscovered a passion and respect within ourselves

00:18:18.140 for american citizens and their own skill and labor that's what would happen so all that being

00:18:24.640 said trump has some uh some mistakes he is racking them up he came out with this rhetoric and then

00:18:30.120 immediately backpedaled and remember the first administration one of the big complaints you

00:18:34.240 chose bad people to lead different departments and right now cash patel and pam bondy two of the

00:18:39.700 most important decisions he made they have been terrible we got to be honest the mistakes that

00:18:45.000 dogged him in the first one have been dogging him here in the second that's right a lesson was not

00:18:49.160 learned and i will say this in regards to cash patel uh we nailed that one we publicly came out

00:18:55.660 immediately and said this is a bad bad pick not our guy well how'd you know how'd you know he

00:19:00.560 wasn't our guy he seems so base you know as he's looking at the camera like he's like my eyes are

00:19:06.480 on it my brother in christ your eyes are like he seems so base he's he was our guy he's maga you

00:19:11.640 know like um a lot of people were excited about cash we were not from the get-go and we were

00:19:16.280 outspoken publicly we did an episode about it uh against them it's like my goodness you guys it's

00:19:20.820 like you have a sixth sense you know are you prophets the son of a prophet how did you know

00:19:24.760 because he's a foreigner who worships foreign gods that's how we knew yeah pam bondy how did

00:19:30.500 you know because she's a woman who needs to be at home yep how'd you know uh pretty pretty simple

00:19:36.700 what did you study where did you find this info what political open up my phone took a look what

00:19:41.620 political sensei are you are you uh doing your tutelage under uh uh well uh the lord jesus christ

00:19:47.980 and the word of god the bible two words they both started with p pam patel nah nah all i needed to

00:19:54.560 know that that was it no yeah you have a foreigner who worships foreign gods i'll see you in valhalla 0.97

00:19:59.720 get that crap out of my country which that isn't even accurate because to go to valhalla you had 0.99

00:20:04.120 to die in combat. So it's Viking pagan mysticism, the wrong application of it, and he himself is 0.99

00:20:09.540 not even... That's right. What are we doing? And in the case of Pam Bondi, the book of Isaiah is

00:20:14.760 absolutely clear. It says that one of God's a sign of his judgment over a nation is when children

00:20:20.800 and women rule over them. So yeah, so Trump is making some of the same mistakes that he's made

00:20:26.380 before. So all that being said, I want to give us a quick update, especially for those who are new

00:20:30.620 to the channel um we voted for trump we're praying for trump we're praising trump occasionally feels

00:20:38.420 a little bit rare than i would like for the first 12 hours of an announcement typically until we get

00:20:42.180 more detail and then we're chimping out um when he inevitably backpedals and does a lot of terrible

00:20:47.960 things uh but we did vote for him we are certainly praying for him as the commander-in-chief and

00:20:53.420 president of these united states we're rooting for him we want him to win we we don't want him

00:20:58.000 to fail. We want him to be used by God to uphold justice and to make life better for heritage

00:21:03.760 Americans. That's our hope. That's our prayer. But right now, it's not going so well. So there's

00:21:08.760 the disclaimer, long disclaimer in regards to Trump. He said one thing, and I believe,

00:21:13.420 unfortunately, by accident, I don't really think this was calculated or intentional,

00:21:17.400 but by accident, he did say one thing that I actually fully support. There will be another

00:21:23.240 caveat i'll give it in a moment um erica the wife of charlie kirk says i forgive him speaking of

00:21:30.080 her husband's enemy opponent and murderer someone who shot him in cold blood trump says i'm not like

00:21:37.460 erica i'm not like charlie charlie was you know he talked to anyone he really loved his political

00:21:45.180 opponents was willing to sit at the table with them and have peaceful discourse and you know and

00:21:49.780 Trump is talking up Charlie, which is the right thing to do. One, it's true. And two, it's his

00:21:54.160 memorial service. So Trump did a good job in that regard, honoring Charlie Kirk, rightfully so.

00:21:59.860 But then he compares and contrasts himself, right? Trump always is going to work, you get in there

00:22:04.940 and make this about you. So he starts to talk about himself in his speech, at least some. It

00:22:10.900 wouldn't be a Trump speech without it. And he begins to compare himself to Charlie and to Erica

00:22:16.440 and says you know charlie um loved his opponents and charlie would have forgiven his opponents and

00:22:22.600 erica is being forgiving um but i don't he said i don't love my opponents i hate them and what i

00:22:31.300 want you to see is right there um that is actually a perfect picture right i saw some people doing

00:22:37.540 the thanos meme right which you know if you like avengers you know the hardest thing about watching

00:22:42.500 avengers is having to go home and tell your dad you're gay you know but suffice you know for for

00:22:47.400 this episode allow me to use one there was a time and that was part of the last movie you could get

00:22:51.620 away with you're referencing a movie last year if you're watching you are in the year of our lord

00:22:55.840 2025 if not literally yeah you're spiritually or literally gay yes um but yeah uh so there's a

00:23:02.140 scene and the meme was going around of thanos you know and he's holding this thing whatever it is

00:23:06.380 like like a level you know balancing it on his finger and the the meme in regards to the memorial

00:23:11.500 service from yesterday is um the forgiving widow um and the uh the hating civil magistrate

00:23:19.280 perfectly balanced as all things should be good me uh that's that's what it is that's going back

00:23:26.200 to my tweet that we opened up the show with out of the cold open um that's what i'm talking about

00:23:31.280 there and and here's the difference one is um there's a difference of of there's a personal

00:23:37.480 difference and then there's a positional difference is the way that i could word it at the personal

00:23:42.020 level um whoever shot charlie kirk and i'll be honest i'm not entirely convinced this one's

00:23:48.740 getting strange initially i was like hang on hang on hang on but now it's a lot more especially with

00:23:53.600 the bullet not exiting right that's a mauser 30 out six i've shot them at the range those things

00:23:58.720 are cannons right it stayed in there i don't know yeah and i'm seeing people i saw a post of someone

00:24:03.880 like well that's because charlie kirk little did you know not only did he you know work uh 23 hour

00:24:08.880 days but in addition to that um he was actually a superhero undercover and his neck was super

00:24:14.680 naturally strong and so even in his death he was still saving lives of people behind him because

00:24:19.760 the bullet i literally saw that post i i think that's yeah a little bit a little much i think

00:24:24.720 that's a little silly um that said uh neither west nor i are autistic we are noticers we were

00:24:32.040 some of the best of them. We absolutely do some noticing and pattern recognition and historical

00:24:37.300 study. And so we are aware of some of the patterns. That said, guys, don't be autistic.

00:24:45.620 Don't be retarded. Don't miss out on an opportunity. If the civil magistrate is going to crush 1.00

00:24:51.420 down, he's going to crack down on LGBT, LMNOP, mafia, and the radical left and transgender

00:24:59.880 sleeper cells that are and and label antifa as a terrorist group um don't don't mess that up

00:25:06.740 let them do it let them cook let them cook my goodness that's beautiful we love it do it um so 0.93

00:25:13.300 the idea of like uh it was ben shapiro you know hiding in the crowd you know it was the jews they 0.99

00:25:20.240 did it um yeah i i think that israel is a massive problem but um i don't think that we have to say 0.83

00:25:27.300 the jews did it but to say uh that it's fishing yeah sure um but some people are saying well

00:25:33.220 charlie kirk was changing in his position you know he was souring on israel um look there's

00:25:38.080 not a single person alive that hasn't been souring on netanyahu the dude is his own government is

00:25:43.960 souring his own people there was like a 30 000 people rally in israel his people in his cabinet

00:25:48.940 saying please stop starving the children in gaza please we don't look good please this looks

00:25:54.800 terrible this is wicked um so the idea that charlie was souring on the israeli government

00:26:00.200 and souring on netanyahu in particular well no duh who who was you you can't show your face in

00:26:06.900 public and be a public figure and garner any respect at all if you are shilling for netanyahu

00:26:13.080 in in september of 20 unless you're donald trump but even then he still has that well his his

00:26:18.760 approval ratings have gone down substantially and not in the least probably because of it yeah

00:26:22.880 because of it that that is a huge factor so yes uh charlie kirk was souring on israel in a sense

00:26:29.660 in regards to the israel and iranian war in regards to netanyahu and genocide and those

00:26:36.000 kinds of things that said um you know so why have you know i actually have 2 000 private text

00:26:41.300 messages from charlie you know um okay well then you it's time to uh release the kraken it's time

00:26:47.440 to make those public if not then sit down it's bs i don't believe you i don't believe you so um

00:26:54.620 aside from those who are bluffing and saying well i have all this private correspondence between

00:26:59.860 charlie kirk uh i think aside from that which seems like a bluff and dubious at best dubious

00:27:05.980 at best aside from that uh the public record shows this charlie like everyone in the world

00:27:11.320 including a bunch of jews in israel are souring on the israeli government and its handling of

00:27:16.800 gaza and palestine aside from that though charlie kirk he loved himself some israel

00:27:22.700 right in that regard we have some strong disagreements with charlie kirk honorable man

00:27:29.960 christian man in the presence and glory of jesus christ right now as we speak a christian martyr

00:27:35.240 who i do believe died in large part because of his faith in jesus christ god bless charlie kirk

00:27:40.520 not a bad word to say but it would be deceitful for me to say the jews killed charlie kirk because

00:27:46.320 he was starting to notice. Charlie Kirk did a lot of things really well. Noticing was not one of 0.53

00:27:52.720 them. The dude did not notice, even if it was five inches in front of his face. He was not able

00:27:59.940 or willing to do the pattern recognition. It wasn't going to happen, and it was not happening,

00:28:05.980 and that's not why he's dead. His death, though, however, is still fishy. The official narrative

00:28:11.120 that we're getting right now is fishy that said if we go with the narrative that we have right now

00:28:16.480 that tyler what is it robinson tyler robinson yeah tyler robinson the you know some some boyfriend

00:28:22.500 of of a a gay furry who was becoming transgender not great also not shocking though it is

00:28:31.060 believable but if that is the narrative the official narrative and it pans out to be true

00:28:35.500 this is what my point is uh tyler robinson is not a personal enemy of donald j trump

00:28:42.500 right um so at the personal level when jesus says to turn the other cheek when jesus says to forgive

00:28:50.080 your brother if he comes to you not just seven times but 70 times seven and notice there is a

00:28:55.820 condition when jesus gives this instruction he says but if your brother sins against you 70 times

00:29:01.020 seven times and comes to you and repents. You must forgive your brother. These are examples,

00:29:08.660 turning the other cheek or forgiving your brother, these are examples of personal private enemies.

00:29:13.380 And what we have to be able to do in Christian theology is think in categories. My goodness,

00:29:19.640 evangelicals are insufferable in this regard, but by the grace of God, I'd like to believe

00:29:24.000 that evangelical Christians in America, by God's supernatural grace, one day might be able to walk 0.97

00:29:29.580 and chew gum at the same time, that we'd be able to think in categories. There are private,

00:29:34.620 personal enemies, and there are public enemies. Let me give you an example. About a year ago,

00:29:39.360 I had my car parked in the middle of the road. Nope, I'm not an idiot. It was parked right 0.97

00:29:44.540 against the curb, about two inches from the curb. And there was a woman who in the middle of the 1.00

00:29:51.320 night, I hear a crash outside my window. I spring out of bed. I immediately have my wife call 9-1-1

00:29:59.160 I go right out the door and my car is now pushed into the front yard and the car that hit it is

00:30:06.020 now on upside down completely upside down and there's a woman crawling over the broken glass 1.00

00:30:12.660 trying to get out of the car she is not a heritage American I'll leave it at that not a heritage 0.98

00:30:19.820 American and she just destroyed my car and she could have pushed my car into the house our front 0.99

00:30:24.720 yard is pretty shallow and harmed my children. And what do I do? Well, I hold it against her. 0.93

00:30:31.120 Nope. I run to her. I pick her up, help her out of the car, get my wife who already has 911 0.65

00:30:38.060 speaking to the authorities on speakerphone so that I can hear, make sure they're getting here 1.00

00:30:42.100 as fast as possible, have her go and run back in and get a blanket. She's cold. She's shivering. 0.98

00:30:46.880 She's in shock. We put it around her. We get her a glass of water. We sit with her outside of our

00:30:51.780 house in the front yard out of the street where she's safe, and we wait for the ambulance and the

00:30:55.180 fire truck to arrive, make sure she's perfectly taken care of, and then we try to go back to sleep

00:30:59.780 so that we can start a day with our five kids. Someone slaps you in the cheek. You turn to them

00:31:07.300 the other. Someone personally offends you. You're willing to overlook it. Love covers a multitude of

00:31:13.820 sin. Your brother sins against you and repents. You grant to him full forgiveness. If a Muslim

00:31:20.340 is laying outside my my house in the street and someone just shot him and he's laying there and 0.97

00:31:29.280 he's bleeding out i'm going to put pressure on the wound uh on the wound not wound the wound

00:31:35.360 and i'm going to do everything i can same thing wife's calling 9-1-1 we're going to do everything

00:31:39.560 we can to call you ice as well though on the second phone maybe maybe call ice also uh but

00:31:44.040 we're gonna we're gonna take care of him if a jew is shot and hurt we're going to take care of him

00:31:49.820 If I have Jewish neighbors who are going on a vacation for a week and they ask me to feed 0.63

00:31:54.400 their pet turtle, I'm not going to go and poison the turtle.

00:31:57.360 I'm going to say, yes, I'm going to be kind, be hospitable, I'm going to feed the turtle

00:32:01.300 and be a good neighbor, right?

00:32:02.780 That's personal, private.

00:32:05.060 Now, another category, okay?

00:32:06.680 Another category, not the same category, another category.

00:32:09.960 You can do this, guys, stay with me.

00:32:11.440 Another category, public enemies. 1.00

00:32:14.260 Islamic countries are not allies of the United States. 1.00

00:32:18.000 They are enemies. 1.00

00:32:19.780 Israel should not be an ally of the United States. 0.95

00:32:23.400 I believe that Israel is an enemy. 1.00

00:32:26.000 I do believe that.

00:32:27.300 I believe the Israeli government is absolutely an enemy,

00:32:30.420 and I believe that Netanyahu, the prime minister, is especially an enemy.

00:32:35.160 Absolutely.

00:32:36.000 I do not believe we should have anyone in our government here in these United States 1.00

00:32:40.220 who has dual citizenship in any country, especially not Israel. 1.00

00:32:45.100 I do not trust them.

00:32:45.980 i believe they have a split allegiance and when the allegiance is split in the case of israel

00:32:52.320 the true allegiance always goes to israel and not america and it has been that way for a long time

00:32:57.540 these united states of israel i'm sick of it i'm sick of the united states of israel it's not like

00:33:02.580 our lawmakers are going on a tour 50 states one israel and taking pictures but they're guff

00:33:06.820 did that happen last week right after charlie kirk was assassinated or at least we saw the

00:33:11.780 your entire government is in israel doing field trips both sides too it's like well not not our

00:33:18.520 republicans or not nope yes both both both sides of the aisle regard there is no difference the

00:33:23.980 left the right you know the difference between the left and the right in in regards to israel

00:33:28.740 uh you have you have gays gays for israel and uh capitalists for israel right that's the difference 0.52

00:33:38.440 between Democrats and Republicans. 0.61

00:33:40.060 As it pertains to Israel, 0.92

00:33:41.460 you can have gays for Israel 0.97

00:33:42.860 or you can have capitalists for Israel. 0.98

00:33:45.900 In other words, there's very little difference.

00:33:49.020 So private, personal enemy versus public enemy.

00:33:52.520 In the case of Erica Kirk,

00:33:55.200 she is not the civil magistrate.

00:33:57.000 As far as I know, 0.69

00:33:58.080 she doesn't even hold a seat on a city council. 0.98

00:34:00.660 Nope.

00:34:01.120 She's not a police officer, praise God.

00:34:03.220 She's not Pam Bondi, all right? 1.00

00:34:06.240 We already have enough blonde women 1.00

00:34:07.680 in positions of authority in the united states she's not one of them praise god for that okay 1.00

00:34:12.880 she's not the civil magistrate the killer of charlie kirk her husband is a personal enemy

00:34:17.840 and a a severe enemy um he robbed her of her husband he robbed her children of their father

00:34:28.460 a terrible heinous wicked enemy but a personal enemy and in regards to a personal enemy

00:34:36.260 she says i forgive him i feel like there's nothing you can do as a christian but look at that and

00:34:44.420 say i respect that yeah you look at that you applaud it you congratulate her um you thank

00:34:52.780 god for that example of the gospel and you don't say a single disparaging word and you will not

00:34:58.540 hear one disparaging word in regards to erica uh kirk god bless her in regards to trump i don't

00:35:05.880 forgive my enemies i don't love my political opponents like charlie and erica i hate them

00:35:11.760 good my problem with trump is i don't think he hates them enough and here's the last disclaimer

00:35:17.100 that i said i would give um the problem with trump in in my assessment one problem with trump

00:35:22.300 is that trump is in many ways not functioning as a civil magistrate should trump actually hates his

00:35:29.280 enemies but his enemies are not public enemies he hates his enemies in the literal sense trump

00:35:34.780 hates his personal enemies. What I need him to do is hate our enemies. I need him to stand in as

00:35:41.060 representative and commander-in-chief of a country and the citizens within it and hate our public

00:35:46.620 enemies. I need him to hate those who don't just hate him, not just someone who had a petty personal

00:35:53.500 grievance, not someone who just slighted him or this, that, or the other, someone who didn't vote

00:35:57.780 for him and he's holding a grudge. No, I need him to hate public enemies. That's his job. So the

00:36:02.900 difference between Erica Kirk and Donald Trump is there are personal enemies. Charlie Kirk's 0.96

00:36:09.360 is a personal enemy of Erica Kirk and therefore should be forgiven. I think that's good. That's

00:36:15.500 right. In the case of Donald Trump, there are public enemies that it is actually completely

00:36:21.420 appropriate for him to hate. Another difference is position. So the personal level, the positional

00:36:26.180 level. Erica is simply an individual private citizen, widow of Charlie Kirk. Donald Trump

00:36:33.780 is commander-in-chief president of these United States. The civil magistrate has a God-given duty

00:36:39.060 not to exercise mercy, but to execute justice. That's his job. So how do you obey and follow

00:36:47.420 the tenets of Christianity and the teachings of Christ without being suicidal, without toxic

00:36:52.780 empathy, without just rolling over and playing dead for the rest of the world to come and plunder

00:36:57.580 all your treasures and steal the future of your children, as we've been doing for quite a while.

00:37:02.860 How do you do that? The way that you do that is not by abandoning Christianity. You do it by 0.96

00:37:08.260 embracing historical, biblical Christianity, and you get rid of this 20th century liberalism crap 0.99

00:37:14.080 that's simply walking around in a Christian skin suit. That's not Christianity. It's not. This 0.99

00:37:19.640 mr rogers christianity is not christianity um true christianity says at a personal level a grieving

00:37:26.300 widow can and arguably should forgive the man who killed her husband and the civil magistrate a

00:37:34.140 christian prince he should be christian also but he's christian in a public position of office

00:37:39.540 and he should not forgive that enemy not as it pertains to his job his job is to execute not

00:37:46.180 forgiveness, not mercy, not grace, but justice. His job is to say, find me a rope. Find me a rope.

00:37:53.840 Short rope, tall tree. And if Charlie Kirk's killer, let's say that he came to Christ and he

00:38:01.060 truly repented of his sins. He's weeping and he says, I believe in Jesus. I'm so sorry for what

00:38:07.100 I've done. I want to be a follower of Jesus. What must I do to be saved? And we would say, repent of

00:38:11.920 your sins, believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ. Someone, we need three things, and we need them

00:38:16.980 stat. We need water. We need water, and we also need a tree, and we also need a rope. Let's baptize

00:38:25.140 this man, my brother in Christ, and then let's send him on to Jesus. That's the proper position.

00:38:31.800 You can do all those things without contradicting the other. And for all the Redditors out there,

00:38:38.240 right so this is you right wing watch this is you know for all the redditors out there like

00:38:42.880 oh i thought you were a christian i thought that you know you're supposed to be loving

00:38:46.600 yes you're supposed to be loving it is not loving to allow someone to get away with murder

00:38:52.400 it's not loving love and justice are not pitted against one another love and justice are not

00:38:59.000 enemies of one another they are not at odds there is a way to the church right so again categories

00:39:04.820 the church as an institute is word and sacrament.

00:39:08.020 That's the church's job.

00:39:09.420 The church is not punishing criminals, right?

00:39:12.200 But the civil magistrate,

00:39:13.340 he better not be administering word and sacrament.

00:39:16.020 He doesn't need to be exercising priestly duties

00:39:19.760 that belong to the church,

00:39:21.400 but he does need to exercise the sword.

00:39:24.460 The church has been given water, wine, and bread

00:39:28.420 in the Bible, the word.

00:39:31.360 Water, word, wine, and bread.

00:39:34.800 Those are the instruments given to the church.

00:39:37.820 The civil magistrate has been given a sword.

00:39:41.240 Stay in your lane.

00:39:43.200 Use what God has assigned to you and carry out your role.

00:39:46.940 And by doing so, we can be a benevolent society

00:39:50.200 with individual, private, personal Christians

00:39:52.840 who exercise forgiveness and love.

00:39:55.080 And yet, at the same time, corporate, collective officials

00:39:59.380 who also protect these United States against our enemies.

00:40:04.240 It's not that complicated.

00:40:05.400 Any other way of dicing it ends up with schizophrenia.

00:40:08.320 So if you treated every public enemy, these are the groups of people, the left, Antifa, Muslims, 0.68

00:40:13.400 if you treated public enemies with private enemies, well, I want to forgive them.

00:40:17.240 I don't want to hold them accountable to it.

00:40:19.220 I want to extend charity.

00:40:20.620 If you did that, you would quite literally destroy your nation.

00:40:22.920 Carl Schmitt, he says in the concept of the political,

00:40:25.680 never in the thousand-year struggle between Christians and Muslims did it occur to a Christian

00:40:30.300 to surrender rather than defend Europe out of love towards the Saracens or the Turks.

00:40:35.320 Christ's command certainly does not mean that one is to love and support the enemies of one's

00:40:39.820 own people. What he's kind of saying there is the public enemies, again, individual enemies,

00:40:43.720 love them, pray for them, forgive them. But again, if you treated your public enemies like your

00:40:47.500 private ones that personally offend you, that would be schizophrenic. If you treated everyone

00:40:51.540 personally, everyone on your street that you were a different religion as, as if they were public

00:40:55.680 enemies, you would be a terrible neighbor to be around. The only way that I know of to hold both 1.00

00:41:00.280 intention is to make that level of a private public distinction. Someone personally slighted

00:41:05.420 me, and I'm going to exercise Christian charity and forgiveness, and God is pleased with that.

00:41:10.600 Publicly, as a group, these people are destroying my nation, and I have to do something about it.

00:41:15.500 This was the Crusades. I mean, people like to say, well, Christianity made us weak, 0.96

00:41:19.700 and Christianity had all these virtues that really ended up making us subservient. No,

00:41:24.000 Christianity was the thing that made the West great. We conquered the Muslims, we colonized 1.00

00:41:28.380 the world because we saw fit not to act like that, not to roll over, not to just lie down 1.00

00:41:33.520 and take it, but to take back the Holy Land, to take back Jerusalem, to take back from 1.00

00:41:37.420 the Muslims. 0.99

00:41:38.020 Amen.

00:41:38.340 Think about that for a second.

00:41:39.580 Think about what you're claiming to believe.

00:41:45.680 Well, Christianity doesn't have a spine.

00:41:47.380 Christianity has no defensive mechanism. 1.00

00:41:49.480 Christianity, for 1,300 years, has fought off Muslim hordes. 0.99

00:41:55.020 Christianity, you're talking about the Crusades. 0.98

00:41:57.240 You're talking about King Alfred.

00:41:58.640 You're talking about Duke Godfrey. 1.00

00:41:59.980 You're talking about all these Iskanderbeg.

00:42:01.900 You're talking about all these incredible heroes.

00:42:04.280 Richard the Lionheart.

00:42:05.500 They did not call him Richard the Lionheart

00:42:07.380 because he was really, really great at his catechisms.

00:42:10.660 They called him Richard the Lionheart

00:42:12.160 because he was a fierce and terrifying warrior.

00:42:16.900 They called him Richard the Lionheart.

00:42:17.560 They even charged groups of 30 to 40 Muslims 0.97

00:42:19.860 and hacked them apart single-handedly. 0.92

00:42:22.060 By himself.

00:42:22.500 If only he had read the Gospels.

00:42:24.260 Think of King David.

00:42:25.440 But King David, the reason he couldn't build the temple

00:42:27.920 and it ultimately had to go to his son Solomon

00:42:29.840 to perform that task

00:42:31.120 was because his hands had shed too much blood.

00:42:34.420 And yet at the same time, not despite that,

00:42:36.840 but at the same time,

00:42:37.940 he is referenced by God as a man after God's own heart.

00:42:41.100 He's famous because he went out and killed Goliath.

00:42:43.220 There'll be pastors today,

00:42:44.580 David, we've got someone made in God's image here.

00:42:47.080 Have you loved them?

00:42:48.300 They would literally say that to him.

00:42:49.340 That's what they would say.

00:42:50.000 His character and his conduct in that

00:42:51.960 is lauded by the Bible.

00:42:53.400 There is courage against Goliath.

00:42:56.080 David doesn't say, you know what?

00:42:57.180 What if we had open discourse with Goliath? 1.00

00:42:59.620 No, David says, who is this uncircumcised Philistine 0.98

00:43:03.160 who dares to defy the armies of the living God? 1.00

00:43:06.620 I'm going to feed your carcass to the birds 1.00

00:43:08.840 and chop off your head. 1.00

00:43:10.620 Not very winsome. 1.00

00:43:11.720 But beautiful.

00:43:13.200 Right.

00:43:13.660 Absolutely biblical, God-glorifying.

00:43:17.060 That was right.

00:43:18.920 That was right.

00:43:19.780 So, no, if you think that Christianity,

00:43:21.720 because think about what you're believing.

00:43:23.660 You're essentially saying that the problem today

00:43:25.900 is that the West has become too Christian. 0.82

00:43:28.460 Wait, it's 2025. 0.98

00:43:30.380 So you're saying the West is weak now 0.56

00:43:33.280 because of Christianity? 1.00

00:43:34.680 Because it's not like the West 0.66

00:43:35.900 all of a sudden became Christian.

00:43:37.320 It's been Christian for arguably 1,500 years,

00:43:40.400 stretching all the way back 1,600 years to Constantine. 0.67

00:43:43.640 And easily, for sure, no dispute,

00:43:45.600 1,000 years stretching back to King Alfred. 0.86

00:43:47.900 So the West has been Christian for a very, very long time. 0.84

00:43:50.380 and so you would essentially have to say well the crusades uh the reason why the west was strong

00:43:55.860 in military in battle um centuries ago is because it was less christian then but now the west has

00:44:02.780 become too christian and that's why we're being overrun no it's precisely the opposite we were

00:44:07.520 more christian then and that's also coincidentally coincidence i think not that's also when we had

00:44:14.260 a spine and when we were strong and when we were resilient and when the world feared us right um

00:44:19.440 And now, now we've just become too Christian.

00:44:22.760 No, we haven't become too Christian. 0.95

00:44:24.280 We've murdered 70 million babies in their mother's womb in the last 50 years. 1.00

00:44:28.320 We have gay furries, gay furries. 0.99

00:44:32.420 No, we are not too Christian. 0.98

00:44:33.580 I promise you.

00:44:34.200 We have not become too Christian.

00:44:35.240 We have left and abandoned our Christian roots, our Christian foundation. 0.92

00:44:40.900 And in abandoning Christianity, that has not made us stronger because now we don't have 0.96

00:44:46.240 to turn the other cheek. 0.91

00:44:47.160 It's made us weaker.

00:44:48.320 We were stronger when at a personal, private, individual Christians were obeying the commands 0.99

00:44:54.040 of Christ, but they could think in theological categories, and publicly, collectively, they

00:44:59.320 had a spine, there was fortitude, there was strength.

00:45:01.920 We were stronger then in our more Christian past than we are now in our less Christian 0.91

00:45:08.480 present. 0.97

00:45:09.600 That's indisputable.

00:45:11.120 Let's go to our first commercial break.

00:45:12.680 We're going to be right back, and I want to talk about one more thing that Erica Kirk

00:45:15.380 said right before she said, I forgive him.

00:45:18.100 She quotes Jesus in the scripture.

00:45:20.680 Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.

00:45:24.240 I want to talk about that.

00:45:26.500 America is a country that was founded for the purpose of allowing Christians to do their duty before God

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00:47:29.160 all right so let's talk about this so erica kirk right before she said i forgive him speaking of

00:47:36.440 her husband's murderer, which was a powerful moment, and many people appreciated it, and I

00:47:41.480 appreciated it as well. Right before that, though, she quotes Jesus, and this is from the Passion of

00:47:46.640 the Christ, his crucifixion from the cross. There's a moment where Jesus says in a prayer to his

00:47:52.260 father, he says, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. Now, I think this is important.

00:47:58.140 Okay, so Stephen, who was a deacon, he was one of the seven, a deacon at the time in the church at,

00:48:05.220 this would have been Jerusalem, right? Or Antioch. No, it's Jerusalem. It's before things

00:48:08.780 had transferred to Antioch. He was one of the seven. The apostles say to the Jerusalem church,

00:48:13.580 they say, look, it's not right for us to wait on tables and widows and orphans. Speaking of

00:48:18.360 apostles, our ministry is prayer and the reading and teaching of the word. So there are widows

00:48:24.140 who need care, and that's a good and godly, pious thing to do. But we are not fit for the task. God

00:48:29.740 has given to us another ministry. So we need to appoint men, seven men in particular, they say,

00:48:34.380 filled with the Holy Spirit and wisdom and these things, so that they can fulfill this task of

00:48:39.060 mercy, of mercy to those who need it in the church, primarily widows and orphans. And so seven men are

00:48:45.020 selected by the church, the church at Jerusalem. They go and find men who meet the qualifications

00:48:49.080 outlined by the apostle Stephen is one of these men. Another, an evangelist, Philip, is one of

00:48:54.220 these men. So in the case of Stephen, many of you are probably familiar with the scripture that he

00:48:59.240 is martyred. He's stoned. And he's stoned, I believe, by the Sanhedrin. It's religious Jewish

00:49:05.000 leaders. The Sanhedrin is important to understand in the context of Old Covenant Israel at the time

00:49:10.480 of Christ. The Sanhedrin was both religious but also political. It functioned for Israel much in

00:49:18.020 the same way that the Supreme Court would function for us. So it's not just a group of pastors

00:49:22.120 with a religious facet,

00:49:25.080 but there's also a very political,

00:49:27.760 authoritative, civil facet as well.

00:49:30.000 It's like if the Supreme Court was also, 0.65

00:49:34.600 they also functioned as cardinals

00:49:36.200 in the Catholic Church or something like that.

00:49:37.940 That would be the equivalent of the Sanhedrin.

00:49:40.660 And so Stephen is held on a mock trial,

00:49:45.420 much like Jesus,

00:49:46.900 and they put him to death and they stone him.

00:49:49.320 And as he's being stoned- 0.82

00:49:50.420 sermon on you're rejecting christ that's what they ask him the high priest are these things true

00:49:54.980 and he says yes moses and david and solomon all these different things abraham christ is the is

00:50:00.660 the culmination the fulfillment of the fulfillment and you've rejected and they literally like they

00:50:04.900 can't control themselves they literally physically cannot as soon as stephen says you killed the

00:50:11.540 christ you killed god's anointed one you killed the son of god the messiah specifically when he

00:50:16.700 says i sees the son of man at the right hand of god so he's saying this jesus who you rejected i'm 0.58

00:50:21.620 looking at heaven now and i'm seeing and that's not hyperbole glory in that moment supernaturally

00:50:25.800 the spirit gave him the ability spiritual eyes to see and he had steven in that moment had a vision

00:50:30.680 as he's standing trial and was able to see into heaven in a spiritual but very real sense it could

00:50:37.140 see jesus and jesus in that moment who's seated at the right hand of god the father is now standing

00:50:42.640 As though Jesus, the Son of God,

00:50:45.260 is offering to Stephen a standing ovation

00:50:47.480 for his boldness, his courage, and his faithfulness.

00:50:49.920 An incredible thing.

00:50:51.200 Incredible thing.

00:50:52.020 It almost makes me want to tear up

00:50:54.320 just to think of Jesus saying on the final day,

00:50:58.020 for me, well done, good and faithful servant.

00:51:00.240 But to think of Stephen, he's standing.

00:51:02.280 He stands up off of his throne giving honor to Stephen

00:51:05.740 as Stephen is about to pay the highest price

00:51:09.000 that anyone can pay for their faith in Jesus,

00:51:11.080 his very life to become a martyr and it's when he says that you crucified him you rejected him

00:51:16.020 and i see him at the right hand of god the father and for them that was blasphemy they're so enraged

00:51:22.100 they pick up stones and begin to pummel him to death they don't even have really the jurisdiction

00:51:26.780 to do it by occupation of rome this was jesus remember they had to kind of get the romans to

00:51:30.660 do the dirty work romans to put jesus this one they're like forget the consequences this guy

00:51:34.540 we're killing him now they're right this guy's anti-semitic yeah that seriously they're like 0.99

00:51:39.480 this guy's anti-semitic and so we're literally going to break the law and make sure we kill him 0.99

00:51:43.340 right now um yes there are a lot of parallels from what i'm saying to you know tucker carlson 0.99

00:51:48.140 described something right this is hilarious i find it hilarious tucker carlson didn't even say

00:51:53.160 the word jew or israel he in the in the most vague of language uh simply described in about 15

00:52:01.900 seconds uh the conspiring and plotting to kill jesus and uh and modern jews today heard that

00:52:12.580 speech from tucker and instinctively responded he's talking about us that's anti-semitic so

00:52:18.480 tucker literally says hey people conspired together and killed christ and today's jews

00:52:24.540 immediately like that's anti-semitism to which my response to ponder here yes even a vague general

00:52:31.580 synopsis of the Bible is anti-Semitic. What do I mean by that? In an objective sense, no.

00:52:38.900 But according to some Jews and their hostile views towards Christ and towards Christianity

00:52:44.920 and towards the scripture, yeah, according to them, it would be anti-Semitic. It would be.

00:52:50.380 So all that being said, Stephen is a martyr. And Stephen says, so people, they'll go back and

00:52:56.200 forth. The reason I bring up Stephen and Jesus, so Jesus, as he's hanging on the cross, and Stephen,

00:53:01.940 right before he's stoned, they both say, forgive them. Forgive them. So this is Acts chapter 7,

00:53:07.780 verse 60. It says this, and falling to his knees, he, that's Stephen, cried out with a loud voice,

00:53:14.120 Lord, do not hold this sin against them. That's the people who are about to kill him, in this case,

00:53:19.020 the Jews. And when Stephen had said this, he fell asleep. That is, he died. He was stoned 0.97

00:53:26.380 to death. Now notice here he says, do not hold this sin against them. Now in the case of Jesus,

00:53:32.800 Jesus is the one who says, Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. Now it's a common

00:53:40.180 kind of misnomer that a lot of times people think that Stephen quotes Jesus exactly. He doesn't.

00:53:45.300 so they both are forgiving those who are putting them to death right in the moment of their death

00:53:51.260 that's true there's certainly a parallel there and it's striking but jesus is the only one not

00:53:56.240 steven jesus is the one who says forgive them for they know not what they do steven does not say

00:54:00.620 they know not what they do he simply says please lord don't hold this in against them right i think

00:54:06.860 what you can say is steven ultimately is praying in that moment for their repentance and conversion

00:54:11.680 that they would repent of their sin.

00:54:14.220 But he doesn't say they don't know what they're doing

00:54:16.000 because in the case of Stephen's death, 0.80

00:54:17.900 the Jews who are actually carrying out his death,

00:54:22.060 picking up the stones and stoning him, 1.00

00:54:23.640 the Jews knew exactly what they were doing. 1.00

00:54:25.680 So Stephen had just explained to them 0.58

00:54:27.040 in a whole sermon, here's what you did.

00:54:28.640 That's right.

00:54:29.120 They're literally right there in front of him.

00:54:31.080 He explains to them from the Old Testament 0.84

00:54:33.440 and they reject it and then pick up stones to kill. 0.87

00:54:37.200 They know exactly what they're doing.

00:54:38.220 So Stephen's not going in a prayer right before his death, 0.52

00:54:40.920 before becoming a Christian martyr, going to lie to God. 0.83

00:54:44.140 God, they don't know what they're doing. 1.00

00:54:45.400 Stephen wouldn't say that because Stephen knows

00:54:47.240 they do know what they're doing.

00:54:48.640 Jesus says they don't know what they're doing.

00:54:50.160 Why?

00:54:50.900 Because Jesus isn't talking about the Jews.

00:54:54.340 Jesus, I believe, is talking about the Romans.

00:54:57.120 See, Jesus was not put to death

00:54:58.880 by the people who held the mock trial

00:55:01.060 in the middle of the night and produced false witnesses,

00:55:04.240 the Sanhedrin, the Jews. 0.86

00:55:06.060 In the case of Jesus, they handed him over to Pilate 0.98

00:55:09.100 and got Pilate and the Romans to actually do the deed, 0.67

00:55:12.280 which was actually the law at that time. 0.75

00:55:14.400 They should have done the same with Stephen,

00:55:15.480 but they didn't.

00:55:16.100 They did it with Jesus though. 1.00

00:55:17.600 So it's the Romans who drive the nails 1.00

00:55:19.880 through Christ's hands and feet 1.00

00:55:21.620 and place the crown of thorns on his head 0.84

00:55:24.020 and scourge him and flog him. 1.00

00:55:27.180 It's the Romans. 0.95

00:55:28.620 And so when Jesus is saying, 1.00

00:55:30.440 forgive them for they know not what they do,

00:55:32.660 he's speaking about the very people

00:55:34.520 who are right there in front of him in that moment

00:55:36.880 as he's hanging on the cross.

00:55:38.700 it's the roman centurions it's the roman soldiers and here's the case uh or or the point um many of

00:55:46.940 those romans if not arguably even all of them didn't know what they were doing they actually

00:55:52.680 did not remember pilot is the only one that you could even argue knows what he's doing and even

00:55:58.520 in his case it's only because god gave a supernatural vision dream revelation to pilot's

00:56:04.220 wife not even to him to his wife to his wife right but in the case of the roman soldiers and and how

00:56:09.800 do you know this joel it feels like you're just you know you're just doing some far-fetched you

00:56:13.240 know eisegesis in order to maintain your anti-semitism nope i'm not one of the roman guards

00:56:19.500 after jesus had died right where he's going to the two criminals on jesus's sides his left and

00:56:25.280 his right to break their legs so they can no longer push up off the nails in their feet in

00:56:29.320 order to catch a breath so that they would die quickly. He goes and he's going to break the legs 0.98

00:56:35.560 of Jesus as well, but he realizes he doesn't need to because Jesus is already dead. And so instead,

00:56:40.400 he takes his spear and he pierces the side of Christ and outflows blood and water. And he says 0.66

00:56:48.320 then, surely this was the Son of God. In other words, meaning he's come to a realization that

00:56:55.980 he didn't have previously see these roman soldiers you have to you have to think about it um think of 0.54

00:57:01.480 just normal police officers right there uh this is the this is the guy who his job back when we

00:57:08.000 actually used to be a just society and carry out capital punishment this would be the like the guy

00:57:12.620 who his job is to pull the switch for the electric chair right right he he wasn't there in the

00:57:19.420 courtroom he doesn't he's not a part of the trial he didn't weigh all the evidence he didn't witness

00:57:23.460 the crime it's just that's his job all that has already been done by somebody else somebody else

00:57:27.240 did that somebody else held the trial somebody else made the decision his job is to pull the

00:57:31.640 switch right and it would be like the person in the chair right before he pulls the switch

00:57:37.300 who's actually innocent and was framed for the crime saying god please forgive this executioner

00:57:44.420 who's about to kill me he's going to be the one whose hands literally kill me but he's not the

00:57:49.040 one who put me here he's not the one who conspired and plotted right towards my death yes he's

00:57:54.580 executing it he's the one who's going to pull the lever but he doesn't know what he's doing forgive

00:57:58.660 him for he knows not what he does uh what he's doing that's what jesus i believe is saying from

00:58:02.720 the cross and i think he's speaking not about the jews but the romans and it's precisely why stephen

00:58:06.620 doesn't say it in his case because the people in front of him who are killing him are not the romans

00:58:10.440 but the jews themselves and they did know what they were doing now all that being said back to

00:58:15.380 erica kirk she says forgive them uh quoting jesus for they know not what they do god bless erica

00:58:23.160 kirk she did a phenomenal job throughout this whole ordeal she has handled herself with pomp

00:58:28.140 with um with dignity with elegance with wisdom um i have not a single bad word to hear so please

00:58:35.460 please do not take this the wrong way i honor her and appreciate her um i do think that's a

00:58:41.400 misapplication, though, in that moment. Because here's my point. This matters all the way back

00:58:47.160 to the major theme, the overarching theme of today's episode. Today's episode, our major theme

00:58:51.600 is if we embrace the teachings of Christ, particularly as it pertains to mercy and

00:58:55.840 forgiveness, is that ultimately going to be the death nail in the coffin of the West, right?

00:59:02.580 That's a good question. It's a good question. And so one of the ways that we make sure it's

00:59:06.200 not the death nail, is we don't disparage Christian widows who are worthy of honor like

00:59:11.540 Erica Kirk, but we do very respectfully, like I'm going to do now, clarify, theologically clarify,

00:59:19.320 so that America as a whole doesn't embody bad theology that could pan out to be suicidal, okay?

00:59:28.820 When Jesus says, forgive them for they know not what they do, that was not a universal principle

00:59:33.460 that each of us should apply. I don't believe that. I believe that's a not prescriptive text,

00:59:40.680 but a descriptive text describing a one-time prayer that was relevant for the Son of God

00:59:49.020 and his murder, and was relevant to those who were literally physically carrying out his execution,

00:59:57.340 his crucifixion, the Romans, because they literally did not know what they were doing.

01:00:00.900 they were like the guys pulling the lever on the electric chair these imagine you're a roman

01:00:05.880 soldier and you show up and say hey what's on the docket today for work uh well today we're uh

01:00:12.880 you're in charge of executing another criminal he's been found guilty yeah he went through the

01:00:18.560 process yep pilot said he's guilty there was a trial that was held he was interrogated and

01:00:23.660 questioned this guy's a rabble rouser he's a rebel he's a rebel he's started okay revolt that's my

01:00:28.680 job today yeah um that's very different than the sanhedrin and the pharisees and the scribes and

01:00:34.200 the sadducees who were watching like a hawk with immense scrutiny paying people for three years

01:00:41.180 testify everything that jesus was doing they knew all the details paying people literally bribing

01:00:46.220 people um to produce false testimony false witnesses holding a trial in the middle of the

01:00:52.060 night so that nobody could come and testify in defense of christ and then literally uh paying

01:00:58.240 people in the crowd to to join them in crying out to pilot give us barabbas give us the murderer

01:01:06.660 we want him released back as a free man into society give us him so the guys who paid people

01:01:14.700 to say that and held a mock trial kangaroo court and paid false witnesses and did follow jesus

01:01:21.040 ministry his public ministry for three years meticulously and knew every single detail those

01:01:25.500 are not the guys that jesus is saying hey forgive them they don't know what they do they knew exactly

01:01:29.280 what they were doing right the roman soldiers who who are now coming to work that day and carrying

01:01:35.220 out the execution because it's their vocation and their job they didn't know what they're doing 0.68

01:01:39.560 and so for us to then take that as a universal principle and say hey when a guy premeditates

01:01:45.320 and he brings a gun and he points it at your throat in front of your wife and children and

01:01:51.280 pulls the trigger you know what um god forgive him because he didn't know what he was doing

01:01:55.960 no that is not a christian principle that does not need to be um universalized um

01:02:02.240 erica kirk has gone through hell certainly not holding it against her most of what she said was

01:02:10.020 beautiful wonderful even her personally like we talked about personal private enemies public

01:02:14.840 enemies her personally choosing to forgive this guy phenomenal how can how can you disparage that

01:02:20.840 incredible. God bless her 10,000 times over. God bless her. I just want to take that one thing,

01:02:26.700 not to disparage her, but I am concerned as a Christian, as a pastor, that we have bad theology

01:02:32.820 in the church and in our nation today that is causing us to weaponize Christianity in such a

01:02:42.700 way that it becomes a suicidal mechanism to destroy the West. And I think that that's one 0.87

01:02:48.060 example. And I don't think she meant to do it. I'm not trying to make it about her. Now I'm just

01:02:52.660 talking about the principle. No, it is not a universal Christian principle that all followers

01:02:57.660 of Jesus have to ask God to forgive anyone who offends them and specifically tell God that 0.94

01:03:06.300 everyone who sins against them is innocent because they were ignorant. That is not a universal

01:03:13.960 Christian principle, that's particular to Jesus. Stephen also says, forgive them, but does not.

01:03:19.580 It's very similar, Stephen being put to death in Christ. But one of the key differences is Stephen

01:03:24.300 does not say they don't know what they're doing, because the people who killed Stephen

01:03:28.920 did know what they were doing. Whereas the people who killed Jesus, in the sense of plotting his

01:03:33.980 death, they knew what they were doing, but the ones who literally carried it out, the executioners,

01:03:39.600 the romans did not know what they were doing in the case of who killed charlie kirk he didn't

01:03:43.800 he absolutely knew what he was doing he knew that he was shooting um a man who he disagreed with

01:03:49.220 politically and culturally and religiously but a man who had not committed any crimes was an

01:03:54.660 upstanding citizen and he absolutely knew that what he was doing was cold-blooded murder allegedly

01:03:59.440 he literally inscribed on the bullet casings catch this fascist that's right catch what the bullet

01:04:04.560 the bullet so he knew exactly what he's doing um and for erica despite him knowing what he was 0.67

01:04:09.840 doing which makes it all the more heinous and it is that heinous because he did know what he was

01:04:13.780 doing for erica to say and yet i still choose to forgive him wonderful yeah but um i don't want

01:04:21.540 millions of christians in america to think um everyone should always respond by saying uh you

01:04:28.460 know what the people who are trying to trans my kids uh the person on the bus who if i gave them 0.98

01:04:34.540 the opportunity would love to rape my wife um you know the guy who uh slits irena's throat and says 0.99

01:04:40.980 i got that white girl uh you know they just don't know what they're doing and if you think i'm being 1.00

01:04:45.760 ridiculous just last thing i'll say it's like why dude it seems petty uh you're nitpicking why do 0.52

01:04:51.700 this um because as far as i've most recently heard um the the rhetoric of they know not what 0.80

01:04:59.360 they do that's being applied right now in the case of irena's murder uh he's he's not really

01:05:05.720 competent to stand trial he has mental health issues he has mental health issues he didn't

01:05:09.500 really know what he was doing he knew what he was doing execute him publicly nationally put it on 0.88

01:05:16.240 television. Everyone needs to see it. Absolutely, he knew what he was doing. I don't care what his

01:05:22.120 IQ is. He knew what he was doing. And so, yes, it's not petty. It does actually need to be

01:05:29.360 addressed. It's theology applied, guys, all the way full circle to the beginning of this ministry.

01:05:34.420 Theology applied. Somebody says something publicly to millions of people. And again, Erica Kirk said

01:05:41.160 something wonderful to millions of people 90 of what she said wonderful but the one thing that

01:05:47.400 i'm i'm taking the time to pick on for just a moment to isolate that thing um if we're not

01:05:54.300 careful that that was said for millions of people to hear and if that gets applied if that theology

01:06:00.100 gets applied that is the kind of theology that is not truly christian but is simply um a a weak

01:06:07.100 limp-wristed liberalism, secularism, in a Christian skin suit, and if that gets applied 0.63

01:06:13.080 by millions, that will continue to weaken the West. So right now, you can look and say, 0.97

01:06:18.300 well, it seems like Christianity is weakening the West. No, it's the abandonment of true historical 0.85

01:06:23.780 biblical Christianity and the embracing of something that calls itself Christianity,

01:06:28.860 but is not. It's not. It is not. Suicide is not Christianity. Limp-wristedness is not 0.84

01:06:36.720 Christianity. Come and destroy our wives and daughters and sons is not Christianity. Judeo 1.00

01:06:42.900 Christianity, our sons will go and die for Israel, is not Christianity. This is not Christianity. 0.78

01:06:48.820 Christianity is not what's killing the West. Christianity built the West. What's killing the

01:06:52.800 West is the abandonment of true Christianity. And the only reason why it seems fuzzy and complicated

01:06:58.180 is because even though we've abandoned true Christianity, the bad actors today are still

01:07:04.160 calling what replaced Christianity, which is absolutely not Christian, they're still calling

01:07:08.700 it Christianity. And that's what we're pinpointing here and saying, nope, that's not Christian. You

01:07:13.940 have a few quotes from historic Christianity that articulates this point. This is a good one. This

01:07:20.040 is from Thomas Aquinas. It's a section in his Summa, whether we ought to pray for our enemies.

01:07:24.620 So he's going through, he's answering questions and objections. And this is from, again, whether

01:07:28.580 we ought to pray for our enemies. He says this, it is lawful, remember this is like the 12th, 13th

01:07:32.880 century it is lawful to attack one's enemies that they may be restrained from sin and this is for

01:07:37.900 their own good and for the good of others consequently it is even lawful in praying to

01:07:42.120 ask that temporal evils be inflicted on our enemies in order that they may mend their ways

01:07:48.160 and so the real christianity is this is this tomism is this is this did i do a tomism is

01:07:53.800 this sacralism is this aristotle i heard he read him no 12th or 13th chat are we back i think we

01:08:00.580 are uh 12th 12th 13th century they recognize this i mean john calvin a heretic came to town

01:08:07.840 they locked him up they told servetus don't come to church don't do it michael showed up anyway

01:08:13.220 yeah the town comes to calvin what should we do he's like i i would put him to death christianity

01:08:18.520 has always recognized that there are individuals whether it be goliath whether it be servetus 0.89

01:08:22.740 whether it be muslim invaders and they are our enemies and as aquinas is saying here you can 1.00

01:08:28.040 pray that the Muslim camp is washed away by a flood. You can pray that heretics, heresy is 1.00

01:08:34.480 suppressed by the church and they feel no ability to go out in public. None of this was controversial

01:08:39.900 and none of it for 1500 years was challenged. So if you're looking at the tail of the tape,

01:08:44.240 you just have to say, yeah, I got to be honest with you. Sure. Yep. You're right right now. Not

01:08:48.720 so great, but we did do it for 1500 years. And if, and if that's you, what you hearken back to,

01:08:54.520 We're historic Protestants. We hearken back to the Protestants who had many enemies, from Luther,

01:08:59.880 from Calvin to the Puritans. Our forefathers, the people we quote, they're not modern liberals,

01:09:04.860 like the ones that are, Christianity needs to lay down, Christianity needs to take it. I mean,

01:09:08.980 you have Protestants today saying, like, hey, I have no duty to maintain my ethnicity, to maintain

01:09:13.300 America. If it dies, so be it. We're not quoting those guys. We're not using that as, like, see, 0.91

01:09:18.440 there it is. You're Christian. You have to lay down and take it. No, there's a whole historical

01:09:21.780 tradition. There's a tradition in theology of place, of home, of country. That's some other

01:09:26.960 things that Aquinas wrote about. Natural affections. Natural affections, the love for people that are

01:09:30.480 like you. So it's not Christianity that's the problem. I think if you trace back... Love for kin?

01:09:35.720 Love for kin? Christian? Whoa. Jesus? Others? And we would also say, though, too, this is what we 0.59

01:09:42.340 can end the segment with. Forgiveness is a beautiful thing. Think about if your child

01:09:46.380 accidentally does something that wrongs you. They break something that's expensive. Your four-year-old

01:09:50.900 can't pay that back, at least not for a long time. Your spouse could do something terrible about

01:09:55.740 something terrible to you. Forgiveness is the thing that makes life not this cold, brutal world

01:10:03.300 to live in. It is hard to forgive, especially someone who wrongs you as much as the shooter

01:10:09.200 harmed Erica Kirk by taking her husband, by taking the father of her children. But without

01:10:15.060 forgiveness, it's not actually like, man, if only we could get over this Christianity and this

01:10:18.660 forgiveness sin thing, we could be back to a strong, vital, robust culture and society.

01:10:26.540 No, you would actually get, there was times in ancient Greece, the death penalty was the only

01:10:30.640 penalty that was allowed by law. There was no gradation. How did they build ancient Greece?

01:10:36.100 Well, how did you have all these citizens? They were brilliant and it ran well and there's no

01:10:39.560 crime. You killed them by the thousands. Yep. Greece was phenomenal because it was built on 1.00

01:10:46.380 a pile of bones. Right. Zero tolerance. So if you want that world, well, you're welcome to go to

01:10:51.200 that world. And actually, that looks a lot more like Africa still today. That's right. A world 0.99

01:10:55.100 of brutality, a world where the strongest one wins, but the Christian ethic, again, not taking 0.98

01:11:00.060 over wholesale. So we don't take the Sermon on the Mount and say, this is Jesus's prescription

01:11:04.120 for the state and for the government. Nope. The Sermon on the Mount of forgiveness, blessed are

01:11:08.900 the meek. Is for private, personal, individual Christians. Exactly. In their personal, private 0.99

01:11:13.100 relations oh well then what part of christianity do we apply to the state i don't know the parts

01:11:17.940 that talk about the state like romans 13 that says he has a sword bears the sword he is god's deacon

01:11:23.400 god's magistrate he is a god's avenger it literally says avenger not god's mr rogers not god's sugar

01:11:29.980 and spice everything nice god's avenger to carry out justice with what with a feather duster with

01:11:36.900 with a bouquet of flowers no with a sword think about in the old testament phineas lauded by the

01:11:42.960 Lord. He used a spear to put to death people that were fornicating in the temple area, lauded by 0.65

01:11:49.980 God. Yeah, that was an appropriate use in that time to stop the evil that was going on. So nothing 0.94

01:11:54.740 about Christianity and nothing about the New Testament especially is weak, but there is personal

01:11:59.320 piety. And I'm telling you, and we stand by it because we stand by the Bible, it makes life

01:12:04.120 better. That the peace and the forgiveness that Christianity does espouse on a personal level,

01:12:09.760 not the civil level, not the magistrate level, but on the civil level, is the way to actually

01:12:15.040 achieve on a personal level a society people want to live in, a marriage people want to be in,

01:12:20.220 children that love their parents, forgiveness, love that covers a multitude of sins, mercy,

01:12:25.940 and meekness, but none of those get taken, applied at the highest level, and get used to destroy

01:12:31.440 your nation. Christianity doesn't do that. Very well said. In fact, I fully believe that you could

01:12:36.280 go so far as to say that christianity is in all of human history it is the only worldview the only

01:12:42.160 ideology the only religion that has been able to achieve or maintain societal and civil strength

01:12:50.840 without an ounce of compromise and still at the same time not embrace brutality there have been

01:12:57.740 other societies and cultures throughout human history that have had strength but they have

01:13:03.700 been brutal. Christianity is actually the only time that we've seen both a cohesive social

01:13:10.820 national strength, but also a place that is benevolent towards women and children and a

01:13:20.780 place where people want to live that's not brutal. So we've had throughout all human history, we've

01:13:26.540 had nice places that last for 15 minutes. They're weak and they're overrun. We've had strong places,

01:13:33.140 but they're brutal and they're built on a pile of bones and then we've had christian places we've

01:13:39.560 had chrysidom chrysidom is the only the only worldview that's been able to accomplish

01:13:44.280 simultaneously both strength and vitality and also benevolence and kindness we need to go back 0.58

01:13:51.860 we must return survey all of human history the kids say ask that even the european pagan he

01:13:56.980 thinks christianity is weak but just all right you can live under alexander's reign you can live in

01:14:01.860 Rome and you could live in America, if you're going to be a random person, what society would

01:14:06.100 you want to be in? They would want to be in, probably towards the 19th century, Europe or

01:14:11.980 American Christian lands. Rome was a brutal place to live. Ancient Greece was a brutal place to live.

01:14:17.780 Random chance, you're a slave and you're treated terribly. You're going in the Colosseum for

01:14:22.180 entertainment on Thursday night. Even they would have to say, yeah, I'm a pagan. Yeah, I hate Christ.

01:14:27.060 But all else being equal, I've got to be placed somewhere. I've got to live my life. Yeah,

01:14:31.340 that's actually going to be the,

01:14:32.760 I mean,

01:14:32.960 America was 99% Christian at the turn of the century in 1900,

01:14:36.960 97,

01:14:37.700 99%.

01:14:38.320 Wow.

01:14:38.880 And they would say,

01:14:39.920 yeah,

01:14:40.900 that's the place I want to live to be there.

01:14:42.660 Even those who hate Christ,

01:14:43.620 they would be like,

01:14:44.040 yeah,

01:14:44.580 that's,

01:14:44.920 that's where I'd want to be.

01:14:45.920 Very well said West.

01:14:46.720 One more thought real quick.

01:14:47.540 And then we're going to go to our last commercial break.

01:14:48.980 And then we've got a bunch of super chats.

01:14:50.420 So stay tuned to some of the questions are bangers.

01:14:52.440 So I'm excited to get to them.

01:14:53.700 One last point though,

01:14:55.100 as we're trying to think in theological categories, 0.97

01:14:57.780 um i do think it's worth noting um this is just one more reason why you cannot have women in 0.99

01:15:06.880 leadership and certainly not women in the leadership role of the civil magistrate 0.81

01:15:12.300 because the female spirit ethos sentiment of nurturing kindness forgiveness mercy 0.99

01:15:24.760 when that's coupled with, when that persona, the female persona is coupled with the civil 0.96

01:15:32.460 magistrate position, then what you get is you get a judge who ends up releasing a man and gives him

01:15:41.920 his 14th chance. And then that man causes another woman to lie on the floor of a subway alone and

01:15:52.760 bleed out and die. One of the reasons why the Christian West has crumbled so quickly 1.00

01:16:00.660 over the last 60 years, 60, 70, 80 years, is because of egalitarianism, which is a hallmark

01:16:10.300 of liberalism. This idea that everyone's a saint, everyone is equal, and that's applied

01:16:17.080 across the board to individuals. Johnny and Jimmy are exactly the same, but also applied to

01:16:22.280 the sexes. Johnny and Jackie are exactly the same. Well, if Johnny can be a civil magistrate,

01:16:26.920 if he can be a district judge, then so can Jackie. No. Jackie is not fit for that role.

01:16:32.880 She has not been designed by God with the characteristics, the traits that are necessary

01:16:37.840 for that role. Jackie, you know which people, when she's making decisions for them and dealing

01:16:45.140 with them, she thrives and they thrive underneath her authority? They're called children. It's 0.99

01:16:52.140 called motherhood right jackie is perfect pam bondy is perfect for motherhood perfect right

01:17:01.420 that like perfect um you know who they're not perfect for uh serial killers i mean the man

01:17:08.600 who killed irena they're literally calling him a career criminal guys do you know what an oxymoron

01:17:15.500 that should be like jumbo shrimp intelligent democrat you know i mean that's like that is a

01:17:22.500 joke it's an absolute career criminal no you if you're a criminal you're done you should be done

01:17:29.260 there's no chance to do it again there's no chance to be a career criminal only in an unjust society

01:17:34.700 like ours and how did you get how did we get here well we got here many ways but one of those ways

01:17:40.380 is that we took women who one of their chief characteristics is nurturing, and we put them

01:17:46.620 in a position, in a role that is not supposed to be nurturing, right? The civil magistrate,

01:17:52.160 Romans 13, he's not given, he's not given fingers for tickling, he's given a sword for executing

01:18:00.620 justice, right? And that, I think, is one of the big problems. Let's go to our last commercial

01:18:05.840 break and we will be right back to deal with the super chats. When it comes to your financial

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01:21:30.540 All right, here we are, final segment.

01:21:32.320 One more time, we broadcast live,

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01:22:03.820 At RightResponseM, as in ministries. 0.93

01:22:06.180 Here we go, Super Chats.

01:22:07.940 The first one is from ThisDudeRocks.

01:22:09.600 He gave us $50.

01:22:10.680 Thank you.

01:22:11.060 We appreciate that.

01:22:12.320 He said,

01:22:12.800 Have you done an episode on why the Old Testament male covenant sign

01:22:16.920 is still practiced so much in America?

01:22:19.540 circumcision and how christian parents should tackle a topic so peddled by the medical industry

01:22:26.220 i have no plans to impart this onto my sons god bless well you don't need to impart it

01:22:31.980 and i can get behind that and think that's wise and i think wes from a biological right real quick

01:22:37.640 give them your pedigree and give them an answer yes i did my undergrad at columbia in biology and

01:22:42.300 then i have a master's degree as well so done a good amount of time on the medical side of things

01:22:46.860 The big thing, the distinction I would make,

01:22:48.720 because there would be those I would argue for it for different reasons,

01:22:51.240 but we have to understand actually what's done today,

01:22:53.240 and I'll try to be very high level,

01:22:55.060 but what's done today is actually very fundamentally different

01:22:57.260 than from what Abraham did.

01:22:59.480 When that one you're taking just, I'll just say this way, a lot less. 0.79

01:23:02.040 What's done today is actually wholesale about 80% more circumcision

01:23:06.500 that you're actually doing.

01:23:07.820 So even what we're doing today is not hearkening back

01:23:09.920 to what was done in that time.

01:23:11.500 What was done in that time, it was a much smaller procedure.

01:23:14.220 So I think there's a lot of reasons today that it would be unnecessary.

01:23:17.620 And those that would argue, well, you should do it like this because of these old times.

01:23:20.760 I don't even think that really necessarily, you're not doing what they did then.

01:23:24.020 That was a much more minor procedure, much more symbolic in nature than I would say the

01:23:28.460 supposed medical benefits.

01:23:30.060 All right.

01:23:31.100 Then we got a $5 super chat from Trevor Lewis.

01:23:35.160 There's no comment.

01:23:36.120 Just gave us $5.

01:23:37.200 We appreciate that, Trevor.

01:23:38.200 Thanks for supporting this ministry.

01:23:40.040 Then we have Earl Starbuck.

01:23:42.760 Earl Starbuck gave us $20.

01:23:44.420 Thank you, Earl.

01:23:44.960 We appreciate that.

01:23:45.720 That's generous.

01:23:46.440 He said, I hope and pray that Tyler Robinson,

01:23:49.500 that is Charlie Kirk's murderer,

01:23:51.460 comes to faith in Christ as his Lord and Savior.

01:23:54.700 So do we.

01:23:55.540 And I hope Tyler Robinson proclaims this marvelous truth

01:23:58.860 from the gallows before he is justly executed

01:24:01.660 for the murder of Charlie Kirk.

01:24:03.760 So true, King.

01:24:04.600 Amen.

01:24:05.120 So do we.

01:24:05.800 The thief on the cross, or the criminal on the cross,

01:24:08.400 Jesus forgave him, and he didn't get him off the cross.

01:24:10.960 He could have.

01:24:11.360 so he didn't go there and say oh all right you've repented of sin you're forgiven uh why don't you

01:24:15.880 get on down here king go out and see the fam no no he said i'll see you in paradise after you also 0.76

01:24:20.240 die with me yep so you're still a criminal you're still going to die but you are forgiven and you 0.96

01:24:24.420 will live forevermore amen categories again it's so helpful guys you got to be able to do it think 0.85

01:24:28.900 in categories the church right things eternal right words sacrament forgiveness of sins brother

01:24:35.060 in Christ. Over here, civil, temporal, justice, capital crime, capital punishment. These two

01:24:41.360 things are not at odds. Next one is from Trevor Lewis. Again, another $5. This time we've got a

01:24:48.160 comment. He said, love the show, but Charlie did start to do some noticing the last couple of months

01:24:53.360 from some of the vids that I have seen shared on X. That's true. I've seen those vids as well.

01:24:59.780 He pushed back on Ben Shapiro's about a week before he passed, and he was given some pushback

01:25:04.600 for how Gaza was being handled.

01:25:06.080 So that's kind of, I think that's what I said though,

01:25:09.220 to be fair.

01:25:09.760 So I agree with you, Trevor, perfectly fair comment.

01:25:13.380 And I agree with you,

01:25:14.640 but just to go back to reiterate what I said earlier,

01:25:18.260 I said that absolutely Kirk was starting to sour

01:25:22.720 on Israeli government, its handling of Gaza,

01:25:27.060 the war and Netanyahu, the prime minister in particular.

01:25:30.740 So I said that, I agree with that.

01:25:32.640 the only other thing that i said was simply uh that yes he was starting to sour on israel in

01:25:38.860 that regard uh which puts him in the category of every single person on the planet pretty much

01:25:45.380 just about just about except for maybe net and yahoo i mean net and yahoo and the idf basically

01:25:49.620 yeah britain just recognized palestine called for a two-state solution this morning i believe

01:25:54.540 yep so um so my point is not that uh charlie kirk wasn't begin getting to notice um in that

01:26:01.220 kind of shallow sense um but that's honestly guys let's just be honest that's that's what

01:26:06.660 people are do that's what people do um they'll say uh it's netanyahu but not the jews it's israel

01:26:15.060 government but not the jews right it's israel as a nation but not the jews um no at a certain level

01:26:24.380 look i'll get in trouble for this but um it needs to be said at a certain level in terms of

01:26:31.200 generalities right this whole episode has been about thinking in categories so here's another

01:26:34.760 thing in terms of language lingo we have to understand speaking in generalities right so

01:26:39.580 do not respond to this like a woman right so right i mean this is the meme right where people say

01:26:45.900 well the average woman is five foot four inches and the woman says well i'm five foot six inches

01:26:50.760 the average woman yeah the average woman yes of course there are exceptions some are shorter

01:26:57.760 some are taller we're talking about per capita we're talking about generalities so this is not

01:27:02.040 universal meaning each and every single individual within the group that's being identified but in

01:27:07.660 general so when paul says of cretins right he quotes one of their own prophets but he agrees 1.00

01:27:13.040 and gives his assent to him and says yep he nailed it he's right all cretins are liars gluttons and 1.00

01:27:19.440 lazy beasts. And the word all is there. So Paul thinks each and every single individual. Well, 1.00

01:27:25.580 he also is saying this to Titus, a son of the faith, who he left to plant a church in Crete

01:27:31.440 among Cretans. And the first chapter of the book of Titus, he gives him qualifications to look for

01:27:37.200 for elders, men of upstanding character. Meaning that Paul assumed that in Crete, where all men

01:27:43.780 are liars and gluttons and lazy beasts, there would still be some men who would be able, by the 0.96

01:27:50.240 grace of God, to fill the qualifications of being an upstanding Christian, virtuous man, and be fit 0.99

01:27:57.600 for the role of being an elder in the church. And he's telling Titus this. So in a general sense,

01:28:03.180 all Cretans are this way. In a particular sense, there are some exceptions, okay? The Scripture,

01:28:10.980 an apostle of Jesus Christ in Holy Writ,

01:28:13.300 inspired by the Holy Spirit,

01:28:14.940 was allowed to speak like this.

01:28:17.300 We're allowed to speak like this.

01:28:18.760 We shouldn't do it carelessly.

01:28:20.540 We shouldn't do it foolishly.

01:28:21.860 But this is a true theological, biblical category

01:28:24.940 and form of language that is true

01:28:27.420 and generally true and therefore helpful.

01:28:30.340 And we should be able to say it.

01:28:31.220 So we can say with the apostle Paul 1.00

01:28:32.900 that at that time, all cretins, 0.57

01:28:35.500 in a general sense, there would be exceptions 0.94

01:28:37.500 and those guys would be elders. 1.00

01:28:38.820 but in a general sense cretins were liars gluttons and lazy beasts i can say of those of european 1.00

01:28:45.180 descent that they're gullible and they're suicidal and they're cowardly and i can also say of jewish 1.00

01:28:52.560 people in a general collective sense not each and every individual that i think there is um 0.96

01:28:58.120 a vulnerability and susceptibility to the sin of greed i think that there is a propensity towards

01:29:03.460 subversion and i think that we can be aware of these things charlie kirk was not noticing

01:29:08.580 like that right not even close and and i'm not dogging on charlie if anything for 99 of the

01:29:15.820 people who listen to this i'm vindicating him they'll be like well praise god charlie wasn't

01:29:20.020 an anti-semit like joel webb okay so i'm not i'm not trying to give charlie a hard time i'm just

01:29:24.940 i'm trying to be honest because i don't appreciate some people are not being honest right now some

01:29:29.060 people are trying to take charlie kirk and say he was one of us right he was catholic he was catholic

01:29:35.660 because he texted me one time he was no nope charlie kirk was a protestant yeah don't lie

01:29:41.340 about a man who just died no he was not catholic and he was not becoming catholic no he wasn't

01:29:48.220 that doesn't mean that catholics are terrible but let's just stick to the facts the facts are

01:29:52.960 charlie kirk was a protestant evangelical christian who loved israel which makes him even

01:29:58.100 more protestant to be honest it does these days sadly sadly so he was a protestant evangelical

01:30:03.240 Christian and he was a friend of Israel and he started noticing, but you have to understand

01:30:09.200 there are categories of noticing. He started noticing what any public figure in 2025, September

01:30:16.140 2025 must notice if they're not going to be booed and laughed off the public stage. Right. You have

01:30:22.480 to know where we are at this point, guys. At this point, anyone who's saying, well, the decisions

01:30:30.560 that Netanyahu are making are great, and I support them 100%. 0.93

01:30:34.900 Glass, Gaza, starve them even more. 0.96

01:30:38.840 Anyone saying that is within danger of losing their job. 0.98

01:30:44.140 So, of course, Charlie was becoming wise,

01:30:47.100 like every public figure in America, in the whole world for that matter.

01:30:50.880 Even certain Jewish citizens in Israel are wising up to that

01:30:54.720 and saying, yeah, we have some critiques for the Israeli government.

01:30:59.640 we have some critiques for Netanyahu. So yes, Charlie was noticing at that level. He was not

01:31:04.680 noticing, though, what I said. And what I said, I gave all the biblical disclaimers, because people 0.99

01:31:09.500 will take me out of context. I gave the biblical disclaimers. It is a biblical category to speak

01:31:14.580 in generalities. It doesn't mean universal, each and every individual, but in a general sense.

01:31:19.360 You can say, this group of people are characteristic of X, Y, and Z, positive and also negative. 0.88

01:31:27.680 and you can say that of cretins and you can say that of americans right all the time i hear people 0.98

01:31:33.460 say americans are fat and i say true it's true you know what west doesn't say west doesn't say 0.98

01:31:39.540 well i'm not fat i'm in great shape um no because uh west has an iq above 85 the floor is high but 0.81

01:31:46.880 i am above it west could even articulate right here live on air he could articulate how he would

01:31:51.480 feel if he didn't eat breakfast it's amazing but i but i did eat breakfast today it's amazing

01:31:57.520 This isn't that hard, guys.

01:31:58.780 It's not that hard. 0.99

01:31:59.600 So Wes could say, yep, Americans are fat. 1.00

01:32:01.360 That's true. 0.90

01:32:02.000 As an American who is individually not fat.

01:32:05.460 It's not that hard.

01:32:05.900 Not that fat.

01:32:06.840 A little fat, maybe.

01:32:07.780 Not that fat.

01:32:09.640 Right?

01:32:10.080 We can do this.

01:32:10.940 So Cretans, well, some aren't like that.

01:32:13.660 And they're going to be elders.

01:32:15.080 They're godly men.

01:32:16.440 But on the whole, Cretans have these positive traits and, according to the scripture, in reference in that particular point, these negative traits.

01:32:25.340 We can do the same thing with Americans. 0.84

01:32:26.820 We can do the same thing with Westerners. 0.61

01:32:28.560 We can do the same thing with white people of European descent. 0.58

01:32:32.040 We can do the same thing with black people. 0.56

01:32:33.560 And we can do the same thing with Jewish people.

01:32:35.580 That is a perfectly legitimate biblical category. 0.84

01:32:37.800 And I do think it behooves us here in the West, in America particularly, that Israel 0.98

01:32:44.480 has a stranglehold around our neck and in our government currently as I speak.

01:32:49.020 I do think it behooves us to recognize that it's not just one guy in Israel that's the 0.68

01:32:54.480 problem. 0.85

01:32:55.300 Right.

01:32:55.480 It's not just Netanyahu.

01:32:56.820 and it's not just the Israeli government, and it's not just right now with this particular

01:33:01.380 geopolitical scene. No, I do believe that it is fair to say, biblical to say, and necessary to say

01:33:09.880 that in spirit of generalities, there are exceptions, but in generalities, that Jewish

01:33:17.880 people for centuries have been able to be accurately described in a general sense

01:33:25.800 as x y z i already gave a few of those x y's and z's a moment ago you can go back and listen and

01:33:32.620 i think that that's important for us to be aware of um especially when it comes to who we are

01:33:38.880 appointing in positions of leadership here in not israel but america okay and charlie kirk god

01:33:45.920 bless his soul was not noticing like that and so therefore no i do not think that massad uh killed

01:33:52.300 I think that that is, I want to be a noticer because noticing saves lives. Children, kids,

01:33:59.920 noticing saves lives. Reading FBI statistics and knowing which places not to be at certain times

01:34:07.040 of day can save your life. It can. So I am a noticer, but I refuse to be a low IQ autistic

01:34:14.900 noticer. I'm not going to do that. Okay. Next, next super chat. 0.99

01:34:19.800 Titus Weller, $20 from Titus.

01:34:21.580 Thank you, Titus.

01:34:22.500 Trump is an imperfect magistrate who I think God raised and uses regardless.

01:34:26.600 Amen.

01:34:27.200 Thank you for pressing the kingdom of Christ forward by awakening the sense.

01:34:30.080 Thank you, Titus.

01:34:31.100 Yep.

01:34:31.380 Trump was always going to be kind of the stopgap.

01:34:34.380 He's the holdover for whatever we get next.

01:34:36.780 That's right.

01:34:36.940 That's kind of the whole mission.

01:34:37.900 He's a precursor.

01:34:38.760 That's it.

01:34:39.340 Yep.

01:34:40.040 $5 from Truddle. 0.94

01:34:41.360 Kimmel reportedly getting unfired, tying to chimp once more. 0.87

01:34:45.600 Oren McIntyre has the contact deets on his timeline.

01:34:48.500 good job on this episode fellows thanks so much trottle longtime supporter great guy great guy

01:34:52.860 and he's right kimmel is back on the air it is so over we're over it's time to black pill uh he's

01:34:59.040 been uncanceled i think what was it maybe like four or five days so you have your marching orders

01:35:03.300 patriots you get those phones you work them we chimp at dawn that's right earl starbuck five

01:35:09.020 dollars thank you earl uh second one i think today he said clarence darrow of scopes trial

01:35:13.400 opposed death penalty because he believed in transformative justice justice is not transformative

01:35:18.360 it is retributive that's good that's good read that one more time this is earl starbuck

01:35:23.940 very well said clarence darrow of scopes trial opposed the death penalty because he believed

01:35:29.920 in transformative justice justice is not transformative it's retributive amen that's

01:35:36.660 what justice is justice is not supposed to be transformative the gospel is transformative

01:35:41.240 and the gospel can transform a criminal's soul and his life justifying him and beginning its

01:35:47.840 sanctifying work the spirit sanctifying work on this man who is now a new creation new creature

01:35:52.880 in christ jesus and it can do so on uh on his walk down the green mile to the electric chair

01:35:58.840 um but no that's not the purpose of justice the gospel in its function in its purpose in its

01:36:05.540 in its uh effectualness uh the gospel transforms justice is retributive not transformative very

01:36:13.200 well said like a word with a hyphen typically before a word what you're typically doing is

01:36:17.180 destroying it, right? So climate justice, social justice, economic justice. Judeo-Christian.

01:36:23.420 Wait a second. You just took the word, and by what you added to it, you actually destroyed

01:36:27.300 the meaning of it. Because if it meant that, you wouldn't need the word in front of it.

01:36:30.720 Absolutely right. Real quick, J.D. Peabody, I think we skipped him. He gave us five bucks. He said,

01:36:35.160 theology applied indeed. Good stuff, gents. Thank you. Appreciate that. And this is, I believe, 1.00

01:36:40.080 our last one. Is that right, Nate? We got two. Here, I'll hit Mostly Peaceful merch. Great

01:36:44.280 brother uh five dollars for mostly peaceful thank you so much he said libertarian theonomist

01:36:49.260 hardest hit this is uh what is this five years in a row taking l's longer libertarians it's been a

01:36:54.520 while just their entire existence we took the l here we lost here again and again and again

01:36:59.640 lulbertarian yep hate to see it yep hate to see it i hate to see it love to see it okay uh last

01:37:05.940 one alan maxwell he gave us ten dollars thanks alan we appreciate it uh he said i vehemently

01:37:11.040 disagree with your position right so this is one of the ways that you get uh money for ministry is

01:37:16.000 is you upset people to where they vehemently disagree with ten dollars god bless you uh he

01:37:21.940 said furthermore i rebuke you in the name of jesus christ don't confuse the principle of forgiveness

01:37:27.820 and justice through the law of god-centered government i've been looking at that sentence

01:37:33.840 for about five minutes well i think the best i'm trying to be like honest and in the spirit of

01:37:38.980 charlie who would respectfully uh you know carry out dialogue and discourse with his opponents

01:37:45.100 i want to honor charlie in this regard and uh seek to do my best however go back to it one more

01:37:50.980 time let me read it one more time don't confuse the principle of forgiveness and justice through

01:37:58.400 the law of god-centered government now if this was a sensical statement then in the spirit of

01:38:06.320 charlie kirk and honoring his legacy um even though he vehemently disagrees and is rebuking

01:38:11.520 me in the name of jesus i would give a charitable response but because this statement makes zero

01:38:17.200 sense i have to respond uh with the quote from billy madison um zero points will be awarded to

01:38:23.800 you and no point during this statement did anything make any remote sense whatsoever

01:38:30.100 zero points will be awarded and may god have mercy on your soul that's the episode for today

01:38:34.540 I hope you guys have been blessed, and we will see you, Lord willing, on Wednesday at 3 p.m.

01:38:39.560 You know your marching orders.

01:38:41.160 Love your wife.

01:38:41.900 Love your children.

01:38:42.820 Love the Lord Jesus Christ. 1.00

01:38:44.340 Wash your wife in the Word. 0.96

01:38:45.400 Catechize your kids. 0.94

01:38:46.800 And in your spare time, get on Twitter, chimp out, and make sure that Jimmy Kimmel gets

01:38:50.420 fired for a second time.

01:38:51.900 God bless.

01:38:52.420 We'll see you soon.

01:39:04.540 You

The NXR Podcast - September 22, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - Should Erika Kirk Forgive Her Husband’s Killer？

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