The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - The Big Lie About January 6 with Charles Haywood

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00:00:30.680 Merry January 6th, everyone. Welcome back to Right Response Ministries. Today is January 6th, and it marks the fourth year since the horrific, for those who are just listening, I've got quotation marks there, attack on our sacred democracy.

00:00:45.920 And while most of you watching probably agree that the pearl clutching and drama from the

00:00:52.260 mainstream media regarding January 6th is a little over the top, I have a few questions.

00:00:58.620 Three, to be precise. Number one, would you be willing to go so far as to say that the majority

00:01:04.060 of protesters who gathered there that day were heroes protesting genuine grievances?

00:01:10.440 Number two, would you be willing to say that January 6th should be an informal national holiday held in their honor?

00:01:18.580 And could you, number three, in good conscience, advocate not just for the release of all remaining January 6th prisoners,

00:01:26.720 but restitution and even reprisal against the corrupt justice system that imprisoned them in the first place?

00:01:34.080 Now, we will argue today that all Christians should be able to say a hearty yes and amen

00:01:40.640 to all three of these questions.

00:01:43.060 In fact, tearing down the mythos of January 6th might just be essential if we are going

00:01:49.540 to make any progress at all.

00:01:52.000 Join us today with special guest Charles Haywood as we discuss.

00:01:57.000 Tune in now.

00:02:01.160 All right, this is what we want to do.

00:02:03.220 we've got a tweet up i think it's fantastic it actually came out if i remember correctly

00:02:08.340 on the day that my fifth girl was born it was the day that we found out woke up it felt like

00:02:14.980 christmas morning maybe even better that donald trump had been re-elected as uh the 47th president

00:02:20.840 of these united states here's the tweet he says this uh well the first person deb says how can

00:02:27.540 the total number of voters be less this year than they were in 2020 after we've had the biggest

00:02:33.500 turnout than ever before demand a recount and an investigation hashtag do not concede kamala

00:02:41.560 super ridiculous tweet and here was the retweet absolute just professional trolling uh something

00:02:49.380 to aspire to i can't do this this is it was inspirational to say the least so uh vineland

00:02:56.820 or Vinland, says, well, I suppose you could try to make a case in court, but since the states

00:03:02.500 haven't certified their elections, it might be difficult to establish standing. After the

00:03:07.540 certification, you might have standing, but unfortunately, a court cannot overrule an act

00:03:13.060 of the legislator. You could potentially try to gather a slate of alternate electors, but the

00:03:19.940 Congress is under no obligation to accept them. At that point, you'd probably have to appeal to

00:03:25.320 the Supreme Court, but that's tough since they don't want to be in the business of deciding

00:03:30.260 elections. Then all that's left really is a good old-fashioned right of assembly for a redress of

00:03:36.680 grievances, i.e. a march. January 6th is when the VP certifies the election officially, and that's

00:03:44.280 probably the time that you will want to aim for to achieve maximum public impact. Good luck.

00:03:51.220 fantastic this is this is what we need to see um we need more of this we're going to go ahead and

00:03:59.240 and sparse out this tweet and then we're going to bring on uh charles haywood right at 3 30

00:04:04.060 p.m central time uh but real quick here's the intro sequence that you've come to know and love

00:04:09.460 all right we are back welcome ga ga ga we're back uh we have revamped the studio a little

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00:04:57.720 Monday, Wednesday, Friday for the live stream

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00:05:33.260 platform is. You can do Spotify, Apple, all the podcast platforms. So that's our schedule for

00:05:38.820 the live stream this year, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 3 p.m. Central Time. Charles Haywood's

00:05:44.000 going to be joining us here in just a few minutes at 3.30. And in addition to that, the rest of our

00:05:49.180 schedule for this year is on Fridays at 8 p.m. Central Time. We'll continue the Friday special.

00:05:55.480 So that'll be in the evening. So you've got an afternoon live stream three times a week,

00:05:58.700 uh monday wednesday friday and then the evening uh friday at 8 p.m central time uh you'll be able

00:06:04.080 to see the friday special um that's going to start uh this friday it's going to be a nine-part

00:06:10.080 series with myself and pastor andrew isker on all things israel uh christian you know judeo-christian

00:06:16.620 that that whole oxymoron those kinds of things uh how how how christians today should view the

00:06:22.060 nation state of israel um how we should view it biblically covenantally f uh what do you do with

00:06:26.800 ethnicity, all those kinds of things. We're going to be addressing that nine-part series that kicks

00:06:31.300 off. We showed the first two episodes to the public last year, 2024. We're going to start

00:06:36.480 back with episode one, but we're going to actually make all nine of them available to the public.

00:06:41.180 And so that's going to be Fridays at 8 p.m. Central Time. And then Q2, we've already got

00:06:45.940 lined up for the Friday special. That's going to be a 10-part series with myself and Dr. Stephen

00:06:52.060 wolf on all things christian nationalism including the christian prince um all the good stuff uh so

00:06:58.360 you guys will enjoy that that's going to start q2 in april the first friday of april okay so for

00:07:02.920 today let's go ahead and pull the tweet back up on the screen um i want to hear from michael and

00:07:08.080 wes uh let's dissect this a little bit nathan if you could keep it on the wide screen but go ahead

00:07:12.340 and pull it up yep on the screens behind us uh this is this is the tweet um i i think it's

00:07:18.380 hilarious because it's he's basically what he's doing is exactly how you Wes you helped us lay

00:07:24.560 out you know our outline in the in the intro blurb for today's episode but I think you're

00:07:29.100 absolutely right that we it's what we can't do is we can't allow January 6 to get out from under

00:07:37.360 us to get away from us to where it gets etched in stone as a new national mythos where it becomes

00:07:44.960 eventually comparable where people who weren't even alive right our grandchildren are hearing

00:07:49.640 about it you know 70 years from now and then it becomes eventually comparable to uh at a global

00:07:55.340 level the mythos of you know the post-war uh the the whole post-war consensus um that that's

00:08:01.380 something that we spent a lot of time in 2024 dealing with we'll continue to deal with it as

00:08:05.320 it comes up as it's relevant um but we we don't want everyone in the world to define all of life

00:08:11.480 based off of uh adolf hitler right love him hate him right we don't love him uh but he's also we

00:08:17.920 don't think he's the worst guy in all of human history we don't think that either we think there

00:08:21.300 are worse guys mal was way worse fascists killed their millions and communists their tens of

00:08:26.460 millions and so um but regardless of where you land with world war ii history the point still 0.62

00:08:32.180 remains all of life has been defined by well you don't want to be like germany don't want to be

00:08:36.880 like the nazis don't want to be like hitler um and that's the same kind of mythos it's starting

00:08:41.660 to become entrenched if we let it get away from us in regards to january 6th so we just want to

00:08:46.800 come out with a banger right here on january 6th and say um no january 6th was not that bad and in

00:08:52.940 fact there's a lot of things that are honorable and should be esteemed so wes i'll give it to

00:08:56.720 you what do you think yeah so it's something i do i go to the library a lot and i'll get what's new

00:09:01.180 out and it'll typically be books i don't even agree with so there's been a good amount of books

00:09:05.260 written this year, and they're against Christian nationalism. So these are mainline Protestant

00:09:09.060 authors, Catholics, evangelicals, have nothing to do with Christian nationalism, don't like it.

00:09:14.160 And when I've read these books, I read about two of them. The most recent one was called

00:09:17.120 Baptizing America. Let me tell you what, the mythos, the idea of January 6th permeates the

00:09:23.740 whole book, the whole part of their resistance. We don't like this idea. We don't want Christian

00:09:28.260 nationalism. It blurs the lines with the political and the religious. The whole foundation of their 0.94

00:09:32.340 argument there's other things they sprinkle in but it's if you get christian nationalism you get

00:09:37.100 january 6th right you get the mob you get rioting you get against rule of law and it's this

00:09:43.740 foundational story of look this is what happens when you blur the political and you blur the

00:09:48.360 religious and you bring jesus into bear and for the record i've been to a couple trump rallies

00:09:52.340 and i've seen the t-shirts jesus is my savior trump is my president don't really like that

00:09:57.020 it's just it's it's not helpful i get what you're kind of trying to do it could kind of

00:10:01.220 these salt of the earth, you know, your Southern Baptist grandma. I understand what's being done

00:10:04.940 there, but not really a big fan of it. So we're not here, you know, espousing for holding up

00:10:08.800 statutes of Jesus and singing maybe amazing grace at the Capitol. But here's the deal. We also can't

00:10:14.140 let maybe even some minor misuses of it then go on and be taken and leveraged and say, you can 0.52

00:10:20.320 never have Christian nationalism because it looks like this. Christian nationalism as a term, it

00:10:25.480 came out of January 6th. Like this term really didn't have any use. You wouldn't have met a

00:10:30.360 christian nationalist in 2015 2018 something like that it's been since the capital we've been trying

00:10:36.260 to do the best work of saying hey christian we're that nationalism we're down with that we're okay

00:10:42.060 with this term and there's a battle for the word will be the the word that defines riots and tear

00:10:47.380 gas and against the rule of law this that or the other will be a good term for good salt of the

00:10:52.600 earth people who love their nation who love god and want to see it be a moral happy flourishing

00:10:57.420 place yep my hands up for the second one right michael what do you think well about the about

00:11:03.260 the tweet specifically i think it's it's almost uncanny it's i don't know how this guy had such

00:11:07.300 insight to lay out such a precise specific legally rigorous plan like the foresight that he had in

00:11:13.660 offering this advice to that original tweet i really can't like that must have taken weeks and

00:11:19.240 weeks of planning and like research into what would happen and hypotheticals and games no i'm

00:11:25.620 just kidding. I mean, um, I don't know. It's hard to, it's hard to not come away from everything

00:11:32.620 that's happening right now with the, with the simple, it's been said before conclusion of

00:11:37.760 just the whole rules for the, and not for me. Right. And what I want to say is I just want to

00:11:41.740 get that comment out of the way now, because I think actually, as we get into the discussion

00:11:44.720 with Charles Haywood, we actually have some things to talk about that are not just, yeah, 0.95

00:11:48.620 but they're hypocrites. Yeah, but they do it too. Right. Like, and I think one of the things that 0.97

00:11:53.520 at least in the article that you had for us, Wes, that was really great, was he said, yeah,

00:11:57.640 that's obvious, right? Like, it's obvious that they will do what they want, and they'll criticize

00:12:01.700 us for doing the same thing. It's obvious that they're being hypocritical about this. Okay, 0.95

00:12:05.340 great. What do we do about it? Like, what about now? What do we do moving forward? How do we,

00:12:11.060 and that's why, Wes, I like how you framed the discussion. We actually need to leverage or at

00:12:17.560 least consider how to think about January 6th in the light of what's furthering the cause of the

00:12:24.960 dissident and the Christian right. Well, these guys actually showed some heroism. Actually,

00:12:29.860 maybe instead of hiding and kind of, yeah, Christian nationalism, but not like that,

00:12:36.860 like, well, actually, maybe these guys had more courage than a lot of other people.

00:12:41.480 Maybe there are some things that we can learn from them and some virtue in what they did that

00:12:45.260 we can esteem and value and get behind actually how many people died january 6th uh on the day

00:12:52.620 of january 6th one person she was one of the ones the belligerents uh a woman i'm not gonna pronounce

00:12:57.720 her name right ashley babbitt ashley babbitt she was shot by capital police and i don't i wouldn't

00:13:02.220 get into the situation and say well actually people do things under duress so one person

00:13:06.540 was shot and killed and later on officer died but it was a protester yes it was a protester

00:13:12.040 yeah i remember when i was first hearing the news about i mean they made it sound like

00:13:16.680 all these officers had died and and and that they had died at the hands of the protesters

00:13:23.660 right we're come to find out you know uh what i think it was two or maybe three that died

00:13:28.960 one a day after a heart attack 48 hours later yeah a heart attack multiple like a drug overdose

00:13:36.080 was one of them drug you know multiple days after and so um yeah i mean the way that they spun it

00:13:41.760 immediately was like this was this terrible thing and you know all the members of congress

00:13:45.720 were fearing for their lives bodies were stacked outside bodies stacked outside exactly you know

00:13:50.780 and it it's just you you can't um it's it's not just pointing the finger and you're being

00:13:57.620 hypocritical like because of course you know the the mostly peaceful riots you know the summer of

00:14:01.960 love 2020 blm um way worse not they're not even in the same category well let's show just even

00:14:08.220 arrest convictions go ahead so i have a graph here made by yours truly um let's compare the

00:14:13.780 summer of love so these are the riots following george floyd's arrest and death in 2020 so not

00:14:19.000 even a year prior to january 6th and this is just the minneapolis saint paul area so this is not

00:14:23.760 across the nation anything like that so the scale of damage as compared to the january 6th electoral

00:14:28.860 justice protest i got that from charles haywood so just as far as damages i'm going to read it out

00:14:33.280 For any of you who are listening, $350 million worth of damage was done to the Minneapolis region.

00:14:39.580 Car dealerships, businesses, restaurants, homes, destroyed.

00:14:43.060 I just want to emphasize, I think you said this, but this was not the only riot that summer.

00:14:48.560 Exactly.

00:14:48.860 Right.

00:14:49.220 Okay.

00:14:49.420 This is just the city where George Floyd's death actually happened.

00:14:53.540 So $350 million in damage to Minneapolis and St. Paul.

00:14:56.720 January 6th, the electoral justice protest estimates are about $2.7 million.

00:15:00.820 So you're talking about 120 times more damage.

00:15:03.980 There are more participants, 8,000 to 10,000 in the Minneapolis area, about 2,500 or so on January 6th.

00:15:10.680 There was two deaths in the St. Paul area.

00:15:12.380 One of them was a shop owner who was shot in the head during a burglary.

00:15:16.420 Another one died from smoke inhalation.

00:15:18.860 There was one death that we already mentioned on January 6th.

00:15:21.080 So then you would think more people, much more damage, marginally more deaths.

00:15:25.000 So that would mean like the cops, the National Guard, there were at least equivalent amount of arrests, right?

00:15:30.040 Best estimate I found, 570 arrests in Minneapolis to 1,200 arrests slash charges issued in January 6th.

00:15:39.360 Wow.

00:15:40.280 570 to 1,200 to about 1,500, some of the higher estimates are.

00:15:44.640 So about three times fewer arrests and convictions.

00:15:48.780 So then there was arrests and there was charges.

00:15:50.640 Many of those have been dropped.

00:15:52.260 To date, as best I can tell.

00:15:53.660 And real quick, that 570 arrests, that's not just one, right?

00:15:56.540 That's all the rights combined that happened.

00:15:58.820 Just in Minneapolis.

00:15:59.420 In Minneapolis.

00:16:00.060 Okay, gotcha.

00:16:00.700 Of those 8,000 participants.

00:16:01.900 Gotcha.

00:16:02.540 44 convictions.

00:16:04.020 So in the St. Floyd riots, 44 convictions have come out of that.

00:16:09.720 How many convictions have come out of January 6th?

00:16:12.740 About 1,000.

00:16:13.440 So some estimates as low as 900, others as high as 1,200.

00:16:17.620 Some of them 22 years in prison.

00:16:20.320 Fines ranging in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

00:16:22.900 So we're talking about a tenth as many actual convictions.

00:16:26.300 20 to 25 times more convictions for january 6 so it not even a tenth it'd be like five percent

00:16:33.120 four percent a hundredth of the damage much fewer participants and again the point is not like oh

00:16:38.780 look if the shoe was on the other foot it's friend enemy yeah it's politics it's leveraging

00:16:44.280 optics that's all that's what's being done the left knows how to play politics uh real quick

00:16:49.540 this is not um for this is not the subject for today but uh knocked loose in the live stream

00:16:55.620 i'm not going to comment on it but uh not your most recent comment but your second

00:16:59.880 most recent comment um that is correct can confirm all right let's keep going um yeah so just

00:17:08.600 absolutely wild what time is it we want to make sure that we get hey we've got 10 minutes on the

00:17:12.560 clock 10 minutes on the clock um yeah but when you think about it the reason why i wanted to

00:17:16.780 share that tweet is um the way that he laid it out one it was just fantastic you know superb

00:17:21.180 professional trolling and i always steven wolf level trolling yeah it really was uh but beyond

00:17:25.660 that beyond just uh the the comedic you know um element um it also for me it helped it just was

00:17:32.880 succinct it was concise it was clear and it helped me understand this is what was going through

00:17:37.600 people's minds they were trying to make a difference and and they were trying to do so

00:17:41.920 peacefully um they weren't trying to it wasn't it wasn't to you know forcefully you know uh take

00:17:47.760 take the capitol or take the white house you know with a bunch of a bunch of guns they didn't they

00:17:52.480 didn't storm it with guns no um they they stormed it with signs they stormed it peacefully but it

00:17:58.500 was to get a message across and and they had no other avenue of of dealing with their grievances

00:18:04.680 and and the whole point was saying look we think that there was some serious funny business in this

00:18:10.200 election and honestly um especially after our most recent 2020 uh 2024 presidential election

00:18:17.780 yeah i i feel like a lot of that if anything has only been further confirmed i you know i was

00:18:23.040 talking to um over the christmas holidays i was talking to my brother i don't see him very often

00:18:27.880 love him dearly um but we strongly we have strong disagreements my brother is um is

00:18:35.280 on good days a marxist and bad days a communist and i on good days am um christian nationalist

00:18:45.620 and on my bad days you know christo-fascist you know so that you know the two of us are about as

00:18:49.940 far apart as you could possibly get you know in our worldview and certainly our view of politics

00:18:54.900 and all that ultimately is you know we have different uh different views of the scripture

00:18:59.200 that's where you know everybody ultimately that's where your worldview is contrived um but we were

00:19:04.300 talking about it and he was saying you know well you just see that uh you know the dims put forward

00:19:09.120 a terrible candidate and uh there was no turnout turnout for because you know she's just a laughing

00:19:13.800 stock i was like well you know we couldn't agree more on that i'm with you uh but i said but that's

00:19:19.140 that's i mean 90 quadrillion billion gazillion uh you know votes for joe biden 81 million

00:19:27.740 it was 90 trump trump uh had like close to 80 and 76 biden biden had 81 yep 81 million i thought

00:19:36.060 it was 90 76 okay so 81 in 2020 it was still the most of any election but it was like wasn't it

00:19:42.160 like 10 20 higher than obama got yes yeah in 2012 higher than hillary higher than anybody ever and

00:19:49.160 then what you see if you look at like yeah every presidential election for every four years on the

00:19:53.540 dim side and then it's like spikes in 2020 for joe biden and then it comes right back down in line

00:19:59.500 with with 2000 you know in 8 2012 2016 and um and i was just saying look i at minimum even if you

00:20:08.600 don't want to say that uh that you have to at least be able to say that it was rigged even if

00:20:12.700 it wasn't stolen even if it wasn't illegal um at least rigged with ballot harvesting and these

00:20:17.360 kinds of things and and um it's it's not just that oh you know people weren't motivated to uh to vote

00:20:22.760 for kamala but but they really love uncle joe um and so my point is just uh anybody with two eyes

00:20:29.520 in their head was looking at what was going on and saying this is absolutely absurd i i refuse

00:20:34.880 to believe this many people came out um and voted for uncle joe who has been on the wrong side of

00:20:42.480 every issue for 5 000 years as long as he's been you know in politics from the womb you know and

00:20:49.520 he's and he's currently like 170 years old i i refuse to believe it and and i understand that

00:20:54.380 nobody voted for joe biden it was votes for trump and votes against trump yep but even with that it

00:20:59.360 just it was it was insane it was hard to believe so what do you do if you feel like you're being

00:21:05.060 lied to um the january sixers did the only thing they knew to do they they tried to get the message

00:21:11.540 across there was no avenue for them to go to there's no court that was going to take that case

00:21:16.300 there was like all of their ones their elected representatives ignored them right and when they

00:21:21.000 came in we have some concerns they hid fled instead of facing them right so so they're trying as

00:21:27.660 patriots to say we think something's wrong we think something's wrong and we're trying to make

00:21:33.420 our voices hurt and again as we've already established the only person who died at the

00:21:38.580 protest on january 6th was a protester yep and so yeah this this myth has to be debunked and if

00:21:48.220 it's not my fear our concern is that it will be enshrined eventually it won't be the same level

00:21:55.320 the same status but but at a national level for america it will be like what what happened with

00:22:01.100 the post-war consensus world war ii adolf hitler third reich germany the whole nine yards is now

00:22:06.480 Now, anytime somebody says, you know, Steve Wolf mentions the Christian prince and people say, well, the last guy, you know, who is a strong authoritarian leader on the right, which I'm not even, I think that you can poke holes in that, whether or not, you know, Hitler was truly on the right.

00:22:20.780 But the point is, well, the last time somebody, you know, somebody on the right, somebody who was a nationalist, you know, rose to power and had strong, you know, dogma and opinions and this, that, and the other, it was Adolf Hitler, the worst person, you know, in all of human history, worse than Mao, worse than, you know, anybody else, you know, the devil incarnate.

00:22:41.300 And I'm concerned that the same thing is going to happen.

00:22:44.340 And so it's something that we just need to break the, we need to be able to freely and

00:22:48.240 public publicly talk about January six and say, yeah, there can be some reasonable measure

00:22:53.420 of criticisms, but, um, on the whole good on those people, well, they were patriotic.

00:22:59.460 Those who put them in prison, they need to go to prison.

00:23:02.760 It's not enough just to release it.

00:23:04.800 The tables have to be turned.

00:23:06.660 There needs to be a strong hand.

00:23:08.960 That's how the left wins.

00:23:10.060 They don't play nice.

00:23:10.920 They're not reasonable.

00:23:11.800 they say they don't apologize and distance themselves from their right and in this case

00:23:16.800 it's not just wielding power you know just to wield it no it is just people were wrongfully

00:23:20.900 imprisoned anybody who put people in jail for four years for something that was not a crime

00:23:27.420 it was not wrong those people need to go to jail for at least four years that is biblical

00:23:32.540 restitution so there needs to be a strong arm and a message needs to be sent in the other direction

00:23:37.620 that um that if you try to lie to people you try to gaslight people uh you try to um to crack down

00:23:45.740 using uh the law against political opponents what they try to do with trump you know and and

00:23:51.000 convicting him and all these um yeah the next four years needs to be crushing leftist absolutely

00:23:58.300 crush i'm talking about sued into oblivion i'm talking about jail for years for anyone who's

00:24:05.560 guilty, fair trials, and then jail. Overcooked, undercooked, believe it or not, jail. By the way,

00:24:12.160 so that's my opinion. Michael, you're going to say something. I was just going to say,

00:24:15.160 in some ways, this is the classic statement that history is written by the winner, by the victor,

00:24:21.100 right? And so the narrative that comes out of January 6th will be determined by whichever side

00:24:26.880 comes out of this steel cage death map. And we've had four years where we were on the losing side.

00:24:31.380 and so they and so what needs to be done is this next four years it's four years at minimum to

00:24:36.420 build i've heard that i agree i've made that argument at minimum four years of some reprieve

00:24:41.300 some relief we can build all those kinds of things but by god's grace my hope is that we

00:24:45.800 could accomplish a little bit more than that uh for four years the narrative has already been

00:24:49.700 starting to set and the cement i would argue is is mostly dry but not quite entirely i think that

00:24:56.020 there's still time um if if if the dems had won if biden had won and then they got eight years

00:25:01.560 followed up uh on biden's win with you know eight years of kamla after 12 years it's you're done

00:25:07.920 you're done at multiple levels you're done with immigration and importing the third world and

00:25:12.380 their voters you're done at every single level um and you're certainly done on this narrative being 0.98

00:25:16.560 cemented into the annals of history but by god's grace because trump has won it's only been four

00:25:21.640 years i think that it doesn't just need to be reprieve it doesn't just need to be gdp goes up

00:25:26.420 it doesn't just need to be uh four years of an opportunity to build it also needs to be let's go

00:25:30.800 back and fix this narrative before it's it's totally etched in stone and that's part of what

00:25:36.320 we want to do today so let's go to our first commercial break and then we're going to come

00:25:40.120 right back out with charles haywood all right guys listen huge development with our conference

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00:27:50.160 forward slash right response. Again, that's squirrelyjoes.com forward slash right response

00:27:57.080 to claim your first free bag of coffee today. All right, we are back. Charles Haywood is going 0.99

00:28:04.360 to be joining us um this is what i would like to start off with charles i assume that you can hear

00:28:10.080 us we are live right now i i just want to turn it to you you've watched from from what i've heard

00:28:15.620 from you and from others uh and who have seen your analysis you've watched probably hundreds

00:28:20.120 of hours of footage and and especially commentating all those kinds of things uh in regards to january

00:28:25.440 6th and so we just want to hear you give some of your commentary your analysis and and help us to

00:28:31.380 think about this properly. We think it should be an informal national holiday, but what do you

00:28:35.760 think? Well, I certainly agree with the conclusion, so we can work backward from there.

00:28:41.280 Love your sweater, by the way. Thank you. One of my daughters loves yellow, so I keep showing up

00:28:47.160 yellow. I, of course, call it the electoral justice protest. That's never really caught on

00:28:53.820 on my appearance with Tucker a year or two ago. He used it a couple of times after that,

00:29:00.320 But no one has really caught on to the term electoral justice protest, though I keep using it.

00:29:05.160 But Patriots Day seems to be a new thing that people have been pushing.

00:29:09.700 So I'm willing to defer to Patriots Day, whatever we call it.

00:29:13.920 It should definitely be a national holiday in the future.

00:29:18.260 But in some level, that's a joke.

00:29:19.740 I mean, it's not a joke.

00:29:21.020 And I really think it should be Patriots Day.

00:29:22.960 But it's a distraction from the substance of it.

00:29:26.180 And I think the substance is extremely important.

00:29:29.460 And because no one likes to talk about the substance, because no one wants to talk about

00:29:34.000 these things, it's like no one really wants to talk about the gulag and the Soviet Union

00:29:37.980 or the mistreatment of the Romanian communists of people in the 1950s, which to be sure is

00:29:43.820 the treatment in the gulag by the Romanian communists is worse than the treatment of

00:29:50.000 the heroes of January 6th, but only by degree, not in terms of its actual quality.

00:29:55.560 And as I'm fond of pointing out, and this is undoubtedly true, late communist Soviet Union or late communist East Germany held a lot fewer political prisoners than America does at this very moment.

00:30:07.900 And in fact, most of the relatively few political prisoners in those places were actual spies, as in people they had caught spying for money and they were being held.

00:30:18.380 And it's not really a political prisoner, though, is counted in that bucket.

00:30:22.060 So certainly, I mean, I think we should be a national holiday. And I mean, we can really talk about any aspect of it that interests you. I mean, I tend to follow different threads because I used to be a lawyer. I tend to focus a lot on kind of the distortions and corruptions of the justice system that have been engendered by the regime's response to January 6th.

00:30:46.060 you can also of course focus on the human interest stories and what have you but because you know i'm

00:30:50.700 a sociopath i don't focus so much on the human interest as as important as that is the lives

00:30:55.700 destroyed and and what have you uh and then of course we can there's lots to talk about what's

00:31:01.120 going to be done about it if anything right the new trump administration yeah so i mean whatever

00:31:05.960 you want to talk about let's well let's talk about uh let's do this what do you think should

00:31:09.920 be done and then number two what do you think will be done i'd like to hear predictions as well as

00:31:14.000 prescriptions well my predictions have been running about 50 percent so take them for what

00:31:18.320 they're worth right you know my i i got it somehow i got into the prediction game and then people like

00:31:24.100 you gratuitously encouraged me to predict more getting me i'm not sure so i mean what should be

00:31:32.640 done is quite clear um i mean the parameters can be decided but like if you if i were king

00:31:38.420 first of all the country would be a lot better off if i were king but second i'll net more narrowly

00:31:43.420 on this question, the kind of day one thing is that Trump should obviously harden 100%.

00:31:52.240 There's 100% of the people connected in any way, their persecution connected in any way

00:31:59.840 to January 6th, whether that includes, I mean, there's people who are in jail for a couple of

00:32:03.840 decades for so-called seditious conspiracy, a crime that literally never been charged in American

00:32:08.640 history before for a law that had been on the books for 200 years or 200 plus years,

00:32:14.440 something like that. So obviously, he should issue pardons and he should issue

00:32:17.980 significant compensation to everybody who was either imprisoned or persecuted or investigated.

00:32:24.000 I mean, very significant compensation, millions of dollars, maybe tens of million dollars for

00:32:27.620 some people. And then, of course, you know, medals, rewards, commendations. I mean,

00:32:32.180 the kind of things that are not kind of quantifiable, but indicate the desire of the

00:32:38.900 people in charge to applaud rather than to persecute behavior. So I don't think we should

00:32:44.840 underrate things like commendations in favor of just, well, here's a pardon, now let's forget

00:32:53.440 about it. And then, of course, the second half of this is punishing of everyone involved in the

00:32:58.400 persecution of these people. And that punishment has to be many times the seriousness and gravity

00:33:04.280 of the persecution, or else it doesn't serve its game theory purpose of deterring such things

00:33:10.040 in the future. That's a much harder thing to do because it can't be done by executive action.

00:33:16.260 And even some of the first group could only be done by congressional action. I mean,

00:33:20.120 Trump doesn't have a bunch of money he can just hand out as the president to people. That's

00:33:24.560 something that the left confines. Only the left-wing presidents have the ability to hand 0.99

00:33:29.500 out money. Right-wing presidents are called on the carpet if they do that. So how you go about

00:33:34.780 punishing these people, legally or extra-legally? By extra-legally, I mean kind of Nuremberg-style

00:33:40.740 things, saying, yes, you did this under the guise of legality, but you're going to be punished

00:33:45.780 anyway because it was not, in fact, just or legal in the broader sense. I don't really know how

00:33:52.340 you'd go about that. It can be difficult because the entire system is designed to prevent that

00:33:58.100 kind of thing, that kind of punishment of anybody who's on the left side of the spectrum. So I don't

00:34:03.960 have a great idea how to do that. You could, for example, enable private rights of action,

00:34:08.640 but there's various legal devices. So like, for example, there's a judge created, entirely judge

00:34:15.900 created legal doctrine called immunity, that if you are in the justice system as a police officer

00:34:22.500 or a judge, you are completely immune from lawsuits against you. This is nowhere in the law. The

00:34:28.220 judges just created it in order to protect themselves and the people that they wanted to

00:34:32.420 protect. You could have Congress pass a law stripping people of immunity. You can override

00:34:37.580 the judges. Congress isn't likely to do that in its current incarnation, but there'll be one avenue

00:34:42.220 for attacking these people.

00:34:43.680 And obviously, people like the guy

00:34:44.920 who murdered Ashley Babbitt

00:34:46.140 should be in jail for the rest of his life.

00:34:49.120 I mean, the statute of limitations

00:34:50.220 doesn't run out on those things. 1.00

00:34:52.320 And, you know, Liz Cheney should be in jail 1.00

00:34:54.200 for the rest of her life 1.00

00:34:55.100 for various actual crimes, 1.00

00:34:57.180 suborning perjury and what have you, 0.99

00:34:58.660 that she engaged in 1.00

00:35:00.360 trying to make political hay out of January 6th.

00:35:03.600 But that's going to be harder to do,

00:35:06.100 actually punishing people.

00:35:07.120 But it's absolutely necessary.

00:35:08.420 you don't you can't just not you can't just try to recompense people for injustices done to them

00:35:17.840 without punishing the people who created those injustices so that's a very important part of

00:35:25.480 the equation right because the restitution in order for it to actually be just the restitution

00:35:30.020 actually needs to to come from those who committed the wrong um like so even from just a biblical

00:35:34.920 standard of justice um if if the restitution only comes from the taxpayer you know the government

00:35:40.260 is just giving money because you know these people were you know rotting in jail um unfairly and

00:35:45.560 unjustly for four years but the the money is ultimately coming from us and not from those

00:35:50.000 who actually you know committed the crime and put them there unjustly uh then you know there's

00:35:54.720 difficult problems in terms of justice but then also in terms of political you know and shifting

00:35:59.620 categories uh politically that the message just isn't strong enough um because ultimately what

00:36:04.360 you're telling your enemies who your enemies um your enemies don't just need to be hamstrung they

00:36:09.860 need to be crushed it's not just that your enemies need to get the message that uh your worst attempts

00:36:14.940 enemies um will ultimately be undone four years later that's not a very strong message the message

00:36:21.800 needs to be no your worst attempts as soon as we get power again um tenfold will come back down on

00:36:28.460 your head don't try it that's the only way only way to have an equilibrium i mean that leaves

00:36:32.700 inside the broader question of can we live with these people at all? I mean, can you have a

00:36:36.780 society? But if you're going to have a society, you have to restore the equilibrium. And I, of

00:36:42.240 course, I'm not privy to anything inside the administration. But you hear rumors that Trump

00:36:46.560 is only going to commute sentences, that is, end sentences. I mean, that would be a complete

00:36:51.480 disaster and a betrayal of the reason a lot of people voted for Trump. So to the extent Trump

00:36:57.880 has people in his ear that say, well, you know, there was some violence and there was no relevant

00:37:02.360 violence by the heroes of January 6th. There was some pushing and shoving occasioned by the violence

00:37:09.000 initiated by the by the Capitol Police. But there wasn't any actual violence, certainly to speak of

00:37:17.600 certainly relative to the violence, a tiny fraction of any violence. The left continuously

00:37:22.320 meted out in the summer of 2020. But Trump may be listening to people say, well, you know,

00:37:27.260 there is some people got out of control and, you know, there were some people who did some bad

00:37:31.200 I think it doesn't mean if you dug deep enough, there are probably some people who who pushed and shoved people a bit more aggressively than might be desired.

00:37:38.540 That doesn't matter. I mean, they should be rewarded and commended in the same way that someone who who did nothing at all should be rewarded and commended because they were participating in a heroic action.

00:37:49.920 You know, but Trump may listen to evil counselors. So we'll see.

00:37:54.040 We'll see. Wes, what do you think?

00:37:55.960 I was going to say you wrote and for the record, you were early, Charles. You deserve credit.

00:37:59.580 i think it was 2021 you're like january 6th was awesome this was great but you you parse out you

00:38:06.400 were uh you parse out friend enemy a lot and so you say that which serves my side my friends my

00:38:12.020 people deserves to be celebrated that which goes against hurts my enemies damages their reputation

00:38:17.180 should be leveraged against them can you help people see just when you have friend and again

00:38:22.740 not all your belligerence maybe you're super thrilled about but you got good salt of the

00:38:26.560 earth people who love their nation, who love Trump, who genuinely protested and requested

00:38:32.600 redress for grievances. So they did that and they did something cool, which is they made the

00:38:37.680 representatives feel like they answered to them. I think it was the first moment some of those

00:38:41.640 representatives who probably spent decades in Congress for a second were like, oh yeah,

00:38:45.420 we answered to the people and the people can ultimately say enough. And that's helpful because

00:38:51.120 they are our friends and they serve our political purposes that we share with them.

00:38:55.360 So, friend, enemy, making your representatives remember that they answer to you.

00:38:59.920 Is there anything you can parse out there additionally?

00:39:02.600 I think I will step back and say that the moral frame is also important.

00:39:07.000 That is, just because people are my friends, like the guy who's like slipping me cash kickbacks for my illegal scheme.

00:39:13.540 That's hypothetical.

00:39:14.520 I don't actually have any legal schemes.

00:39:16.260 I did have illegal schemes and some guy was giving me kickbacks.

00:39:19.580 You know, he may be my friend, but I don't have a you can't say you need to.

00:39:24.700 your actions need to be, as a kind of premise, moral. If God is unhappy with the things that

00:39:33.480 you are doing, maybe you should step back. But the fact is, God is not unhappy at a bunch of

00:39:38.140 people pushing and shoving inside the Capitol or outside the Capitol, rather, in order to

00:39:43.040 demonstrate in a supposed democracy that the people are unhappy with their elected representatives.

00:39:49.600 So I think the – when you talk about friend-enemy, you're bringing in Carl Schmitt kind of stuff.

00:39:57.060 Schmitt was – I'm a huge Schmitt fan, and Schmitt was a – he wasn't an indifferent Christian, but let's just say he had a tortured relationship with the Catholic Church and a disordered personal life.

00:40:10.140 So a lot of – if you talk about friend-enemy, it's easy to forget the moral frame.

00:40:14.020 So on the premise that the frame is moral, and you also have the moral question on the other side in terms of like what punishments you should hand out and what have you.

00:40:25.900 But I think the friend-enemy distinction is, as you say, the crucial distinction here.

00:40:31.880 And people on the right for decades have completely failed to execute on this distinction while it's all that people on the left have executed.

00:40:42.180 I mean, this is, of course, not a point original to me, but I grew up, I'm older than all of you,

00:40:48.440 but I remember I grew up in the 1980s reading National Review when it was actually, I mean,

00:40:53.780 now, of course, it's just a pile of steaming horse manure. But back then, it was a flagship

00:41:00.360 publication, the only publication really other than, say, Chronicles, which was much smaller

00:41:04.420 on on the right and all of it was more principles you know it was all you're looking back it was all

00:41:11.960 in i'm always down correctly on william f buckley but there was never any distance any mention of

00:41:18.260 justice or the rewarding friends and punishing enemies it was all about more principles which

00:41:24.980 of course were ended up in the right for decades and hopefully now we're turning the corner on that

00:41:31.260 fighting the long defeat. And if you don't approach all politics, all crucial politics,

00:41:40.460 I mean, if you're arguing on the local level about whether you should fund a sidewalk,

00:41:43.900 you probably don't need to view it as a friend-enemy distinction. But I mean, all politics

00:41:50.080 that is crucial has to be viewed as a friend-enemy distinction. The issue that I think

00:41:55.880 that brings up in our society is that politics is far too ingrained in all of society. That is,

00:42:05.400 in a well-run society, the average person has essentially no connection or interest in

00:42:10.520 national politics and doesn't really have much to say about it, and so therefore doesn't have to

00:42:17.500 ponder everything through the prism of friend and enemy. But since the left has politicized

00:42:21.800 everything for a century and made America into political bedlam, the result is that you have a

00:42:29.320 very corrosive approach to society, even though that approach is necessary, that of friend and

00:42:35.260 enemy. I don't have a solution for that, but it's kind of, it's a bad harbinger of the future,

00:42:40.480 because unless we can back off everything being politicized, then everything will be viewed by

00:42:45.760 both sides through friend-enemy distinction, and it's simply not a recipe for social comity.

00:42:53.220 Yeah.

00:42:53.760 Right.

00:42:54.280 Biblically, I think of, because, you know, some people struggle, you know, Christians,

00:42:58.380 evangelicals are, sadly, I am an evangelical, that's why I pick on them, and it's my own

00:43:03.420 tribe. 0.98

00:43:04.060 So, you know, but evangelical Protestants, sadly, really, really, really struggle with

00:43:08.360 this, and so they're, you know, like, friend-enemy, you know, once you get past, like, well,

00:43:12.260 Carl Schmitt, and that's a Nazi, and it's like, you know, the Nazis drank water too,

00:43:15.520 I still drink water.

00:43:17.300 You know, all truth is God's truth.

00:43:18.640 It's a good idea.

00:43:19.860 I think it's the way that people behave.

00:43:22.940 Even at minimum, it's a good observation.

00:43:25.880 And at maximum, it's a good strategy. 0.77

00:43:29.260 And so once you get past that part of the conversation, then, you know, evangelicals,

00:43:33.080 they're like, well, but crush enemies.

00:43:35.420 What do you mean crush enemies?

00:43:36.420 That sounds terrible.

00:43:37.340 That's not what Jesus did.

00:43:38.320 Turn the other cheek.

00:43:39.120 And so then you get into public enemies and private enemies.

00:43:41.340 And Charles, you and I have had that conversation before.

00:43:43.700 you've you've done some good uh writing on that i remember one of your um sub stacks on uh private

00:43:48.320 versus public uh enemies and how and how you treat them and that's really helpful but uh one of the

00:43:53.420 the passages biblical passages that i think of that i think can be helpful for people when you're

00:43:58.300 trying to teach them how to understand these things um especially you know like female christians i

00:44:05.160 would you know my i would advocate for just don't have that conversation say um uh i love you sister

00:44:11.500 could I speak with your husband? That's what I do. Because it's just women aren't fighters and

00:44:16.920 they're not supposed to be. My wife is not a fighter, praise God. I fight for our family. 1.00

00:44:20.980 And so, but my point is, biblically, one of the texts that I've used that has been helpful is

00:44:25.580 talking about straining gnats and swallowing camels. So in terms of biblical justice,

00:44:31.200 there can be infractions that at the objective level really do fail to meet God's law. It's like,

00:44:36.180 okay, well, this really was an infraction. This really was a crime, or this really was,

00:44:41.000 maybe it wasn't a crime, but we could argue that it was still sinful. Not all sins are crimes,

00:44:45.360 you know, but there was a sin. But then you have to step back for a moment and realize that you

00:44:51.980 kept saying my principles, you know, so the principle guys, right? Because the left has

00:44:56.020 no principles. They are monsters. They hate Christ. They hate God. They hate morals. They 1.00

00:45:00.820 hate all those kinds of, they don't have principles. But many people on the right do.

00:45:04.940 um and and so we can be suckers at times and we can be suckered into that uh by the left and

00:45:11.080 because the left will sit there and they'll point and say but that's a gnat i see it can't you see

00:45:15.500 it here's a magnifying glass here's a telescope you know like uh zoom in zoom in zoom in oh it

00:45:20.140 is a gnat and then and then we spend the next six months straining a gnat um meanwhile the left is

00:45:26.560 is forcing camels down our throat and so my point is um i think to help people see we're not we're

00:45:33.860 not advocating for turning blind eyes to injustice or these kinds of things. But what we are saying

00:45:39.260 is the common problem, as I see it on the right, is a problem of triage. It's a problem of priority.

00:45:46.960 It's not that the right needs to all of a sudden become monsters like the left. It's not that the

00:45:52.600 right needs to forfeit its principles. But what the right does need to do is triage, right? It's

00:45:57.540 just like an emergency room here's the deal uh right now we are um we're in the er america is

00:46:05.100 in the emergency room and and and we have millions of patients and only so much staff

00:46:11.820 and so what you have to do is yeah this is a crime and that's a crime and that's a problem

00:46:16.660 this is a problem that's a sin and that's wrong and that needs to be improved sure all of it all

00:46:20.740 of it however um who has who has something an object sticking out of their head who's bleeding

00:46:27.840 from the head who can't breathe like let's start with that oxygen who can breathe who you know like

00:46:33.600 um and then eventually we'll get to broken wrist you know and eventually we can get to you know my

00:46:38.480 my two-year-old uh has a rash you know whatever but but you have to start big the headline what

00:46:43.900 the right has done time and time again is the left the left comes in and and makes the footnote

00:46:48.820 the headline and the headline the footnote and and sometimes the left is correct in an objective 0.76

00:46:55.000 sense of this footnote actually is an infraction and the right we're such suckers that we'll say

00:47:00.800 well i guess technically that is an infraction technically and and then we'll and and so then

00:47:05.260 we'll apply our principles in the objective sense as christians but the problem is that we're not

00:47:10.380 applying the principles to the headline to the major and and then we get meticulous and all our

00:47:16.840 principled ethics get applied to the footnote to the minor and i i think that that's one of the

00:47:22.360 major problems so as i've talked to i i'll argue with people say look yeah yeah um there might have

00:47:28.200 been some pushing and shoving or yes there might have been this there might have been that but

00:47:31.260 let's step back for a second you have private citizens over here you have publicly elected

00:47:36.500 officials and they've imprisoned people to rot for four years and lied um let's start there let's

00:47:46.500 start there. And I think that that is a biblical principle that Christians should be able to get

00:47:51.400 behind is first start with the big things, right? Put that in order, right? I mean, that's a

00:47:59.140 constant principle throughout the scripture. Seek first the kingdom of God and all these other

00:48:02.500 minor things, temporal things will be added unto you. The principle of start with the big things,

00:48:07.560 the things that matter most, and then move on, outflow from that. So it's not turning a blind

00:48:13.020 eye it's not that the right becomes the left that all of a sudden we forfeit all of our principles

00:48:16.620 and we don't care about morality at all um but it is it is ethical triage and there's a principle

00:48:23.260 ironically for triaging and prioritizing principles what you guys got any thoughts

00:48:28.900 about that i want to hear from you charles as our guest but then also michael you you pipe in after

00:48:32.300 charles sure yeah i i agree with that certainly i think i think kind of on a temporal basis this

00:48:38.960 isn't a biblical principle, but fundamentally, the right has to decide to drive the car rather

00:48:44.160 than being driven around, as we have been for decades, reacting to whatever it is the left

00:48:48.860 chooses to use as the frame setting device for the narrative. And unless Trump comes out of the gate

00:48:56.640 strong doing that, and admittedly, he does show pretty good signs of doing that in his selections

00:49:02.480 and what he said and what have you, I think that we're not going to get the results that we want.

00:49:08.220 And really, I'm always hesitant to make kind of very broad statements like this.

00:49:14.980 But I think it is true that, and Musk is always banging on about this, and I think it's interesting

00:49:19.360 that people who are entirely not Christian also see this same way, that this is really 0.59

00:49:24.540 the last chance we have to regain our nation, or rather the last peaceful chance we have

00:49:29.920 to regain our nation.

00:49:31.380 That Trump and the people around Trump, I mean, Trump is in some ways just a condensed

00:49:37.060 symbol that he is obviously the most important guy. He can do things that are necessary in order

00:49:42.120 to restore our nation and to restore justice and balance and, frankly, to put the fear of God into

00:49:48.120 our enemies so that in the future we can move forward together. That's a long shot, admittedly,

00:49:54.660 even if Trump does all those things. The divisions are very deep and so on. But certainly the last

00:49:59.720 peaceful possibility. And if Trump had not been elected, there would be no possibility and we

00:50:06.140 be headed towards some form of violent conflict, whether low level or high level, I don't know.

00:50:11.140 But the good news is we have a potential escape hatch only if we use that not to restore the

00:50:18.200 status quo ante of 2019 or 2008, but the actual, not to restore any status quo ante, because

00:50:30.040 going back to the past is a waste of everyone's time. I've written against nostalgia. But for

00:50:35.380 example, one of the things that Trump has to do, whether the right has to do in order to renew

00:50:41.040 America, totally aside from things, this narrow question we're talking about, the electoral

00:50:45.700 justice protest, we have to move towards restoring freedom of association because America is run in

00:50:52.380 a way that is completely incompatible with any social comity where basically one group of people

00:50:58.600 is by law, white people, white men specifically, is basically deprioritized and persecuted

00:51:05.600 and officially allowed to be oppressed. 0.50

00:51:08.320 And that's the most productive group in the nation.

00:51:10.900 And if you can't reverse the so-called Civil Rights Act and all its associated progeny,

00:51:16.700 we're not going to get social comment. 0.71

00:51:18.840 And no one's even talking about that except kind of fringes on the right.

00:51:21.860 On the other hand, you know, there's a lot of things that are being talked about now.

00:51:25.720 Six months ago, we're only talked about the fringes of the right.

00:51:28.260 so it's amazing the overton is is shifting at uh incredible speeds michael do you have something

00:51:34.640 to add i have a i have a question kind of about narrative and um the article that you wrote about

00:51:43.820 this was it was almost four years ago now right it was 2021 um and we were talking before the show

00:51:50.740 about the idea or maybe you mentioned it during the show just now joel that uh within about four

00:51:56.800 years, that's kind of some people have observed that that is the amount of time that it takes to

00:52:01.480 build and establish something. So my question for you, Mr. Haywood, is in relation to January 6th

00:52:08.980 and the larger narrative, because Wes brought up the idea before we brought you on, that even in

00:52:15.680 Christian circles, evangelical circles, January 6th is pointed to as this is why we cannot have

00:52:22.240 something like Christian nationalism, because then we'll get riots all over the place.

00:52:25.380 My question is, as far as narratives go, is this narrative about January 6th being evil and the death of democracy and attack on sacred democracy, is that set if Trump does not pardon some of the January 6th or all of the January 6th people, does that lock the narrative in into history?

00:52:51.920 Like, this was an attack on democracy, and that's going to be what settled.

00:52:57.840 And how big of a factor in kind of the culture war is the January 6th narrative overall?

00:53:06.340 Is this a big deal because we need some modern heroes?

00:53:09.600 Is this a smaller deal given Trump is tackling other things?

00:53:12.800 Where do you think we rank the narrative and mythology coming out of January 6th?

00:53:17.540 And how much does it relate to kind of some of the other goals that the dissident right has right now overall?

00:53:24.600 Well, it's a hard question to answer.

00:53:26.880 It's kind of like the apocryphal episode where the Chinese Communist Party premier Zhao Enlai, Nixon asked him what he thought of the French Revolution.

00:53:37.160 And he said, it's too early to tell.

00:53:38.920 Now, that story actually is true, but it's a good story, right?

00:53:42.480 It's too early to tell because it's tied to the Overton window.

00:53:47.140 but the Overton window is a narrow political question. Basically, what at this moment is

00:53:52.120 the acceptable range of political discourse? The question of how history will view something

00:53:56.820 is both hard to say, particularly in a fragmenting polity such as ours, and it's hard to say over

00:54:02.860 time. I mean, you're no doubt familiar with a couple of months ago, Daryl Cooper got in trouble

00:54:06.980 because on Tucker, he questioned the post-war consensus about who's a hero in World War II

00:54:12.340 and other matters related to World War II.

00:54:15.440 But that's a sign that he's – the fact that that was done

00:54:23.100 and that it got a lot of traction suggests that the history

00:54:31.300 that we've kind of all been forced down our throats for the past 30 or 40 years,

00:54:35.660 which is different than the kind of immediately post-World War II history,

00:54:39.560 it's hard to say what it's going to be.

00:54:41.320 And since the certainly of the left were to emerge triumphant in America, the narrative of January 6th would kind of over the next decades be set as the kind of risible narrative that they've tried to put together over the past four years.

00:54:56.620 But as you say, it's been four years, and it's pretty obvious that narrative has not gained traction.

00:55:03.760 I mean, certainly it's gained traction.

00:55:06.180 It's complete within a certain epistemically closed set of people, the people on the left.

00:55:14.040 But by the same token, there's large numbers of people who just reject that narrative.

00:55:17.940 In order for a narrative to kind of have common currency, that is to be accepted by essentially everybody in the society, that's a historical process that depends on a variety of things, including the people writing the history having control over the history.

00:55:33.380 And one of the things we see with technology is that that's increasingly impossible.

00:55:39.460 Or rather, it's increasingly impossible to have lies be established in the narrative.

00:55:44.400 I mean, you can you can have a narrative about the statistics related to copper mining from 1950 to 2020.

00:55:52.340 I mean, that's not going to be changed by the by the Internet.

00:55:56.120 But it's very difficult now to not for the truth not to come out.

00:56:01.620 And of course, at the same time, that also means that there's more fragmentation.

00:56:05.200 It also means that people who are like legitimately crazy, the reptiles are ruling us kind of thing, also are able to get more of a voice.

00:56:12.560 But again, back to the 1980s. I find myself as I've entered my 50s now, I sound like that old guy now, but I'm like back in the 80s. But back in the 80s, if you were not regarded as pure enough or there was something wrong with you with National Review and you worked for National Review, Buckley destroyed you.

00:56:32.400 But if you just didn't appear in the pages of National Review, you had no platform to talk to other people about right-wing things other than mimeographing, if anybody remembers what a mimeograph is, mimeographing your biweekly newsletter and mailing it to people who had somehow heard about you.

00:56:51.940 And that made it possible to create completely lying narratives. And everybody knows that or can feel in his bones that huge segments of what we've been told our whole lives as history is partial or complete lies.

00:57:08.400 some of that has been exposed, some of it hasn't. But I think in the future, it's going to be very

00:57:13.660 difficult to maintain that level of control over what the narrative about a historical event is.

00:57:19.860 So paradoxically, though, I generally would be happier if the internet were turned off.

00:57:24.040 I think it's a net negative. The one thing that the internet does in associated technological

00:57:28.960 things is it makes it extremely difficult to control this narrative. Yes, it's true this

00:57:35.300 seems particularly spectacular right now because Elon Musk has opened up X and Justin Trudeau is

00:57:40.640 getting canned and Keir Starmer is like fleeing for his life because people, his association with

00:57:45.880 rape gangs has been exposed for the whole world. But even without that platform, people would still

00:57:51.040 be able to get much more access to the truth than they could in the past. So and given that right

00:57:57.100 wing is basically correlated nearly 100 percent with reality based, I would expect to answer your

00:58:03.600 question in kind of a long and roundabout way, that the history of the future will be written

00:58:07.980 in a right-wing friendly way, not because the right wing is controlling the narrative,

00:58:12.620 but simply because it reflects reality. That's good. All right, we're going to go to our last

00:58:19.380 commercial break for the day, and then we'll come back with some concluding thoughts.

00:58:24.240 Hello, this is Chuck from Private Family Banking. Thanks for joining us today. We help you make one

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00:59:47.580 okay um charles if you're still with us i just wanted to give it to you for some concluding

00:59:56.120 thoughts and then we're going to go ahead and round out the episode but the first thing that

00:59:59.280 i want to say last thing i want to say is thank you so much for your time today we appreciate

01:00:02.900 everything that you've written on this topic uh you like wes said you were one of the the first

01:00:07.360 guys to come out publicly when everybody on the right including myself i was like oh i don't know

01:00:12.040 if i want to touch that um that doesn't seem you know it just yeah it just did not seem like a

01:00:17.500 winner but uh but you were there and with hindsight hindsight always you know provides

01:00:22.320 more clarity but um or usually does and i've been able to see why why it matters why it can't just

01:00:27.780 be ignored um not just for um moving forward but but like you brought up you know before we brought

01:00:33.520 you on we had kind of the same connection the post-war consensus with january 6th and we don't

01:00:38.220 want uh january 6th to be etched you know enshrined into you know the the collective memory of our

01:00:44.320 nation to become its own little national version of the post-war consensus where everybody says

01:00:49.600 well we can't have you know we can't have christian nationalism or whatever you want to call it you

01:00:53.960 know we can't uh we can't have christian government christian rulers because uh because uh you know

01:00:59.300 january 6th will happen just like people still to this day are like well the last time you had

01:01:03.640 somebody who cared about nationalism and used religious language you know it was adolf hitler

01:01:07.360 So we've got to be able to move past it.

01:01:09.920 And I think one of the ways that you move past is you have to not let the parasite, the virus, entrench itself.

01:01:16.480 Dig it up before it gets too deep out of the consciences of people.

01:01:20.600 And so I wanted to ignore it.

01:01:23.000 Definitely in 2021, wanted to ignore it.

01:01:25.380 But you didn't.

01:01:26.380 I'm glad you didn't.

01:01:27.280 So thank you for coming on the show.

01:01:28.500 And thank you for exercising some courage.

01:01:30.920 Any final thoughts on the topic for you?

01:01:32.600 Joel, sorry.

01:01:32.880 I want to, Mr. Haywood, sorry to interrupt.

01:01:34.540 Just with your legal background, there was one particular thing that the three of us can't really speculate on.

01:01:40.780 And so maybe if you know, as you as you answer Joel's question, have there been any legal precedents that are now being built on some of the imprisonments and mock fake trials that have happened with some of the January 6th protesters in the same way that in the past legal precedent was built on some of the civil rights action?

01:02:00.160 Have any actual legal precedents been started to be erected around this sort of situation with January 6th?

01:02:08.640 No, because the the issue with the persecution of the January 6th protesters is primarily that existing systems and existing laws are being used in new ways, which doesn't necessarily establish a precedent, except in kind of a tactical sense.

01:02:26.760 So almost all and maybe all of the statutes that are used to prosecute, the claimed violation of which are used to prosecute these people have never been used in that way before, which is a function of federal criminal law being unbelievably voluminous and unbelievably vague.

01:02:46.820 And historically, people have relied on people, meaning the American people have relied on the kind of neutrality and discretion of prosecutors to properly use those laws to charge people who are have engaged in actual criminal wrongdoing.

01:03:05.160 And that they, of course, have upended this to do the exact opposite.

01:03:08.700 And it's no different than 1930s show trials.

01:03:11.380 I mean, the communists, the constitution of the Soviet Union and the laws of the Soviet

01:03:15.640 Union offered all sorts of hugely important protections for people in all sorts of ways,

01:03:22.440 all of which were completely ignored.

01:03:24.080 And they simply made up the laws they went along in order to get the enemies of the regime.

01:03:29.020 I mean, this is the standard practice of any modern,

01:03:32.080 franical totalitarian regime to use the letter of the law, which is so vague in where you have

01:03:40.520 basically an unholy alliance between the prosecutors, all of whom are complete political

01:03:46.160 actors, all of whom should be in prison, down to the secretaries in the U.S. attorney's office.

01:03:50.600 Everybody should be in prison for long periods. Everyone associated in any way with any of this

01:03:55.120 should go to prison using these same laws. You can turn about fair play, but it's been combined

01:04:01.000 with the judges. And D.C., all these cases are held in D.C., which is a notoriously corrupt and

01:04:07.920 evil judicial system entirely controlled by the left. So you can do anything you want with that

01:04:13.600 without actually changing precedence per se. There's no there's no the criminal law doesn't

01:04:19.060 work on the basis of precedence in the way constitutional law does. So it's not really

01:04:23.500 setting precedence. But the activity itself is you could say it's setting a pattern if the left

01:04:29.960 has power in the future for exactly the same things they would do. But those things aren't

01:04:34.240 new, fresh, original. Stalin was doing them too. So it doesn't require a lot of originality. It 0.84

01:04:40.980 just requires evil. And that's what these people are. And so they should be severely punished in

01:04:44.600 case I haven't mentioned that 800 times. Well said. I mean, I'll just let that be my final

01:04:53.940 statement. And I don't mean it to sound, I think it's important to realize that people don't like

01:04:59.500 to be negative and it ties back to something joel said earlier that it's tied to the hyper

01:05:05.060 feminization of our discourse you know we need to be kind and generous and

01:05:10.480 well well you know we won't talk about it yeah we'll do it then we'll make sure they know so

01:05:20.580 that they're terrified but we won't talk about it a bunch we'll talk about how democracy is important

01:05:25.020 while we destroy the lives of these people.

01:05:27.240 So I think it's important to focus on things that men regard as normal.

01:05:36.000 Like, we're having a conflict.

01:05:37.520 We're going to resolve this conflict.

01:05:38.960 We're going to resolve this conflict finally.

01:05:40.640 And we're not going to pretend we're doing anything other than resolving this conflict

01:05:43.320 because that's a weenie way to approach life.

01:05:47.120 But weenie way to approach life is most of what American discourse is about.

01:05:50.660 So we should talk about punishment just as much as we talk about justice for the victims of January 6th.

01:05:58.700 Amen. Awesome.

01:06:00.080 And you've said this, I've said this, Stephen Wolfe has said this in the epilogue of his book, The Case for Christian Nationalism. 1.00

01:06:07.220 But we are a country that is female-led. 0.95

01:06:11.080 Everybody is either a woman in power or somebody who is woman-adjacent. 1.00

01:06:15.860 But that's the only kind of leadership that we currently have. 0.98

01:06:18.100 child worst childless women in most cases correct you know that's even i mean i mean 0.71

01:06:23.580 jenny vance said it well childless cat lady yeah right exactly and didn't back down his credit so

01:06:29.580 right yeah good on him so but as long as that's the case um then a lot of a lot of what you're

01:06:35.160 going to have is the worst of the worst the most vile of the population uh that is willing to be

01:06:41.320 crafty and deceitful and do their, their deeds of wickedness in darkness, but paint on a smile

01:06:48.460 and use flowery kinds of language. Like I think I'll just, I'll just, you know, everybody knows

01:06:54.400 I'm, I'm patriarchal and not a fan of women in leadership. So, you know, but I'll say it like 1.00

01:06:59.420 this, the false teachers in the first century and the, you know, the early first century, you know, 0.68

01:07:05.020 Christian church, the Bible is explicit. The primary audience that they were winning 0.95

01:07:10.220 were women. The Bible says that these false, they creep into weak-willed women's homes 1.00

01:07:19.280 and lead them astray. And they do so. The false teacher, this is the, it's so ironic. I mean, 0.99

01:07:25.860 anybody with an open Bible should be able to get this. But the false teachers, you know,

01:07:29.400 people are like, you're being divisive, you're being divisive, you're harsh, or you're a reviler,

01:07:35.360 or you're this or you're that um but but when you look at the new testament the bad guys are almost

01:07:42.080 always described as the ones who have the flowery language the soft smooth speech and their primary

01:07:50.680 target audience is the wives the women um because they fall for it this is definitely true but it's

01:08:00.220 exacerbated as well by uh and this is something that was true throughout the 20th century

01:08:05.300 For some reason, many of the worst, most sadistic exercises in the 20th century, both in Nazi Germany and in the Soviet Union or in the Soviet satellites at various death and torture camps, while there were not a high percentage of women involved as torturers and guards there, the women who were were always regarded as among the worst.

01:08:27.840 And you see this, for example, like the the prosecution of Douglas Mackey, the guy who who was prosecuted for memes. 0.93

01:08:35.320 the, I don't know, I can't remember the specifics, but basically that was cooked up by a lesbian

01:08:40.780 assistant U.S. attorney who may or may not have been the lover of the U.S. attorney 0.96

01:08:45.460 as something, you know, cooked up and held in readiness for the moment Biden became

01:08:52.200 president and they get the green light from the Justice Department to engage in this nakedly

01:08:59.000 political persecution. I mean, these are extremely bad people who in a different,

01:09:02.600 would be perfectly happy, no doubt,

01:09:05.580 to physically torture

01:09:07.160 someone like Douglas Mackey, just that

01:09:08.680 that's not something that's currently

01:09:10.940 permitted in America, but if the political situation

01:09:13.200 changed, those same people

01:09:15.200 would do the exact same things, almost

01:09:17.100 certainly. In a heartbeat.

01:09:18.920 Yep. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.

01:09:21.900 Yeah, no, we should not forget that,

01:09:23.160 and we should play accordingly.

01:09:24.760 Alright, well, hope to see you again soon. Thanks for coming

01:09:27.160 on the show, Charles. Thank you. Talk to you soon.

01:09:29.140 Alright. Okay, Michael and Wes, I'm going to give it to

01:09:31.180 you guys uh i'll land the plane at the very end but what are you guys saying any any final thoughts

01:09:35.560 for today january 6th charles haywood female leadership we gotta we gotta uproot january 6th

01:09:42.360 so it doesn't become the next you know national post-war consensus the whole nine yards let's

01:09:46.260 give our concluding thoughts oh i'll put my money where my mouth is um i was there so at the time i

01:09:53.720 uh it was in between semesters in school and trump said hey i want everyone to be there as

01:09:57.960 constituents as citizens of america to come support me and so i was there i showed up i left

01:10:02.740 the city about 1 30 i didn't go to the capital i didn't trespass so there's nothing illegal and

01:10:07.120 even still me saying this i could get some reprisal for it but um but we connected we said

01:10:11.520 they're heroes really they were the salt of the earth sbc type of people not every single one of

01:10:18.400 course there were some you know the proud boys different groups you can't sign on for every

01:10:21.960 single one of them but there were so many people i remember christian music playing amazing grace

01:10:26.300 being sung christian flags there like these were salt of the earth people who loved their nation

01:10:32.160 they were gathered because legitimate injustice had been done to them and it's funny because in

01:10:36.700 a way they saw what was coming what they were trying to prevent were the tens of millions 1.00

01:10:40.660 illegal and legal immigrants that have flooded our nation that are going to be really hard 0.84

01:10:45.600 to get out over these next four years it's not going to be easy inflation i saw something like 1.00

01:10:50.100 80 of our money supply right now has been printed in the last five years i've heard that your

01:10:54.420 grandchildren's future has been destroyed and there were some good people that were there

01:10:59.780 and they said we don't want that to happen they couldn't see it they couldn't know everything

01:11:04.520 they couldn't put words to it but they they had a feeling and they were dead on they were correct

01:11:08.880 people like me went there to support because we felt the same thing a presidency of joe biden

01:11:13.200 four years of left control is going to be awful my son was born that year my first son and and

01:11:19.720 in that four years the future a good future for him became exponentially worse so praise god for

01:11:26.460 the people that were there they didn't know all the future they didn't know all the parts of it

01:11:30.480 they couldn't quite articulate it but they said we don't want that we want a better nation and

01:11:34.320 we're going to show up and some of us take suffer significantly uh for trying to stop something

01:11:39.640 wicked from being done yeah yeah i um in the article that that we read that haywood wrote

01:11:46.300 earlier, he mentioned a book called Crowds or The Crowd or something like that. And it is true

01:11:53.820 that a crowd on its own can get out of control, right? There's a logic and a fervor that overtakes

01:12:00.280 a crowd. But Wes, what you're talking about was a collective consciousness among salt-of-the-earth

01:12:08.000 people. And I think that a lot of the conflict between the elite and the populace, even the

01:12:14.660 Christian elite over the last five, ten years is the fact that Christian elites and Christian 0.99

01:12:22.980 thinkers and certainly the left, the elites on the left and on the right, the rhinos, they can't 0.93

01:12:28.760 account for and they can't even really argue against the collective consciousness of a people

01:12:35.300 that says something is wrong. We cannot put our finger on what it is. We don't have the education

01:12:41.680 or the rhetoric or whatever it is to articulate everything that is going on, but something is

01:12:47.600 wrong. And insofar as January 6th represents a gathering of people who are just saying, look,

01:12:54.560 we just want someone to take us seriously. We just want someone to say, you think something

01:12:59.440 is wrong? That is valuable enough, that's worth enough in a republic for us to say, okay, we'll

01:13:05.460 hear you out. We'll look into it. We will give you a fair hearing. But what was so

01:13:11.500 frustrating for people at that time was that at no point were they getting a fair hearing right at

01:13:17.140 no point was anyone taking them seriously and i think it's going to be what what charles haywood

01:13:22.820 said about um technology and how the narrative can no longer be controlled i think is interesting

01:13:28.340 i think that it will further highlight and increase the well it's what we talked about

01:13:37.340 with anons a few weeks ago um the anons maybe individually but go ahead the anons individually

01:13:45.700 maybe you get you don't have a lot of credence behind just one anonymous account on twitter

01:13:50.440 but that also represents kind of a groundswell of hey guys like there's hundreds of us there's

01:13:56.600 thousands of us we all can identify something right and so i i actually think in that sense

01:14:02.800 january 6 might might represent kind of a larger the rise of the collective consciousness because

01:14:08.240 of things like social media the internet and the collective voice that can get out there i think

01:14:12.240 it's going to be fascinating to see how that dynamic continues to affect american politics

01:14:16.640 the american church all of that on the note to facing constituents at the end of the war that's

01:14:21.700 doing research a bunch of officers came to george washington and they were pissed about wages they

01:14:26.400 were like we had this withheld you didn't have the money to pay and it was close to a mob and

01:14:30.460 washington came up to them and he talked reasoned them through and they actually all left ashamed

01:14:34.180 that they came there begging for money trying to like get their due because he sat down like a

01:14:39.480 leader does and said you have some concerns and i hear you you you agreed to these wages they

01:14:44.740 haven't been paid yet here's how it can work out like that's what leaders do not a single

01:14:49.100 representative when the capitol police let many of them in came to the hallway and said you got

01:14:54.200 questions let let me talk to you let's work through them together imagine how different

01:14:58.160 the day would have gone man someone listened to me someone heard me out i had this to say and they

01:15:02.920 really took it seriously well said all right well um happy january 6th mary january 6th i don't know

01:15:10.260 you know we'll have to you know get back to you on the proper way to say it but uh god bless the

01:15:15.400 patriots and uh let's pray that uh for those who have been wrongfully imprisoned that um that they

01:15:19.660 would be able to be released and uh that restitution and justice would be done um those who've been

01:15:25.580 wrongfully imprisoned should not only be released, but they should be financially compensated.

01:15:29.920 And all those who are involved in committing the injustice against these individuals should have

01:15:37.460 severe consequences. Severe enough, they should be just according to biblical standards. But if it's

01:15:43.880 according to biblical standards, then it will be severe. The Bible deals out specifically for

01:15:48.780 everything we were talking about, the friend-enemy distinction, sending a message to those who do

01:15:53.220 vile and wicked things so that they wouldn't persecute further the righteous. These are all

01:15:57.160 biblical principles. The Bible literally says that justice should be proportional, it should be swift,

01:16:02.100 it should be blind, impartial, and in being proportional, it is severe. It's exactly as

01:16:08.840 severe as the crime that was initially committed. And all of that for the purpose of thwarting off

01:16:15.740 future potential evil. That's the purpose. It's not just setting things right, but it's also

01:16:21.720 preventing future wrongs the bible even says explicitly that when justice is delayed then

01:16:28.360 evil permeates that more people say hey you know what you can do evil in this context and get away

01:16:34.880 with it i think i'll do some evil too and so for the sake of first the glory of god and his kingdom

01:16:41.980 but secondly for the good of his people for the good of christians and at a lesser extent but still

01:16:48.640 for the good of all image-bearing people, even if they're not Christians, but who are not

01:16:53.300 in an outward sense doing wicked, vile things to their fellow image-bearers for the sake of

01:17:00.280 all people innocent in that criminal sense, in a judicial sense, innocent, then yeah, I hope

01:17:07.920 that the perpetrators of these crimes wrongfully imprisoning people and lying through the media

01:17:13.560 about January 6th and what actually happened, I hope that they're all severely punished. 0.91

01:17:18.640 So a merry, very merry January 6th to, first and foremost, God-fearing Christians, secondly, 0.70

01:17:25.920 American patriots, and thirdly, a very merry January 6th to all those who, by God's grace, 0.70

01:17:33.300 will soon rot in jail. Thanks for tuning in.

01:17:48.640 You

The NXR Podcast - January 06, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - The Big Lie About January 6 with Charles Haywood

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