The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - The Madness and Immorality of Surrogacy

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00:00:26.800 we are entering an age where children are made not begotten commissioned not conceived designed

00:00:35.740 and delivered to order like a handbag or a custom suit these children's stories don't begin with a

00:00:43.880 sperm and an egg but with a signature and a lawyer and in the eyes of our culture this is not a

00:00:52.520 tragedy, it's viewed as progress. Across the West, surrogacy is sold as compassion, an act of love

00:01:00.560 for the infertile. It is framed as fulfillment for the same-sex couple. It is presented as relief

00:01:07.500 for the hopeful parent with no biological path forward. But beneath the glossy language of

00:01:13.500 choice and family lies a darker truth. Children are being deliberately severed from their mothers,

00:01:20.280 Not by death, not by accident, but by design, and increasingly by commerce.

00:01:28.880 Recently, Jordan Peterson sat down with Katie Faust.

00:01:32.780 It should have been another routine exchange, thoughtful, careful, reasonable, but it wasn't.

00:01:40.160 Faust confronted Peterson, and by extension, the moral schizophrenia of the modern right,

00:01:46.300 a movement that claims to uphold the family even as it normalizes its destruction.

00:01:53.120 Surrogacy is not simply a medical option, it is a moral crisis.

00:01:58.520 It reorders the very foundations of parenthood, identity, and human dignity.

00:02:04.540 A society that affirms this practice will not remain a society for long, 0.80

00:02:09.260 because no nation can endure that builds itself on the backs of children

00:02:14.940 who have been severed from the ones who bore them.

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00:02:28.360 You can join our Patreon by going to patreon.com forward slash Right Response Ministries

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00:02:43.100 In today's episode, we begin by defining what surrogacy really is, where it came from,

00:02:49.080 how it's accelerating, and why it matters more now than ever.

00:02:53.840 Then we unpack the Peterson-Faust conversation and expose why surrogacy is not just a cultural

00:03:01.700 debate. It's a test of whether we still believe in human order and dignity. So, let's begin.

00:03:08.380 Nate we lost something

00:03:27.160 all right GA welcome back here it is Friday Friday afternoon we made it's going to be our

00:03:35.580 last live stream for the week and then lord willing we'll pick back up on monday uh if you

00:03:41.880 haven't registered uh for our conference yet crisis king conference that's coming up soon

00:03:45.660 so we encourage you to do that go to right response conference.com right response conference.com

00:03:50.760 register for the conference uh today's topic michael our very own michael has outlined this

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00:04:58.220 access to every piece of content from our conference all right okay great well really

00:05:03.120 looking forward to this discussion today we are going to be talking about surrogacy and

00:05:07.340 two two things prompted it as I was thinking about what we wanted to do one was the article

00:05:14.260 that we not the article the podcast that we mentioned in the cold open with Jordan Peterson

00:05:18.400 which was really eye-opening for me, and then the other one was an article that I read recently

00:05:23.420 from The Guardian, which is an online newspaper from England. So I'm actually going to read that

00:05:30.280 article out loud here in just a second. Before we do, just in case the listener doesn't know

00:05:34.440 what it is that we're talking about with surrogacy, a quick definition. This is something that, you

00:05:39.840 know, would have been the stuff of scientific or science fiction nightmares, you know, 100 years

00:05:45.320 ago, but here we are. Surrogacy is the process whereby an embryo is implanted into the womb

00:05:53.540 of a mother, well, a woman who is not the biological mother or what they call the intended

00:06:01.920 mother who will be raising this child. Now, it's been presented as a compassionate way for

00:06:08.520 couples who the woman in the relationship can't conceive for some reason. And so they have 0.50

00:06:15.120 another woman, they implant a fertilized egg from the intended couple into the womb of 0.98

00:06:22.500 a separate third-party woman who agrees to carry the child for the nine months, and then 0.83

00:06:28.360 upon birth, the child will be presented to the intended family, and they will take that

00:06:33.240 child home, and basically genetically, in most cases, if it's a male and female couple,

00:06:39.120 which we'll get into same-sex couples later, if it's a male and female couple, generally

00:06:43.360 it is their genetic child in a sense because the egg came from the woman the sperm came from the 0.88

00:06:47.160 man but it was grown in the womb of a separate woman right um and a lot of times um that woman

00:06:56.020 receives some sort of financial compensation and uh the intended couple pays for the medical

00:07:02.140 care and treatment they pay for the delivery um we'll get into some of the costs later on as well

00:07:08.380 But basically, it is a person or people borrowing the womb of usually a total stranger for the purpose of that woman growing a baby in her womb that they would then take custody of, either adopting or it being their biological child to begin with.

00:07:29.520 So that's what we're going to talk about today.

00:07:32.340 This article in The Guardian is talking about a situation in Italy.

00:07:37.640 So we'll read the article, and then I'm going to give a little bit of historical background on the bill that it's referring to.

00:07:43.820 So the title of the article is Surrogate Parents Too Afraid to Return to Italy After Procreative Tourism Law.

00:07:51.680 It says this.

00:07:52.640 The Italian parents of a child who was recently born in the U.S. via surrogacy say they are too afraid to return home since Georgia Maloney's government enacted the West's most restrictive law against what she described, this is the prime minister of Italy, she described as procreative tourism.

00:08:13.680 The gay couple, so this is a gay couple from Italy who went to the U.S. and had a surrogate baby.

00:08:19.200 The gay couple could be among the first Italians to be prosecuted under the law enacted in early December,

00:08:25.560 which extended an outright ban on domestic surrogacy by making it a universal crime that transcends borders,

00:08:33.080 putting them on a par, the gay couple, that would be put on par with terrorists, pedophiles, and war criminals.

00:08:39.000 The measure can lead to prison terms of up to two years and fines of between 500,000 euros and a million euros.

00:08:48.780 The couple's son was born in San Diego, California in mid-February.

00:08:58.280 That was just this year.

00:09:00.040 They are very worried about returning to Italy because there's the prospect of jail and fines.

00:09:05.200 Gianni Baldini, a lawyer for the pair who has made the case public on their behalf,

00:09:10.220 told The Guardian, quote, they are now evaluating the possibility of remaining in the U.S.

00:09:15.500 Maloney's far-right brothers of Italy had long campaigned for those who seek surrogacy abroad

00:09:21.540 to be criminalized. After the law, which only applies to Italian citizens, was passed in

00:09:26.560 Parliament in October, Maloney said it was needed to, quote, fill a regulatory gap to also prevent

00:09:33.380 this inhuman practice of procreative tourism, end quote.

00:09:37.240 The measure is among several socially conservative policies

00:09:41.040 pursued by her government in its quest to promote

00:09:44.180 so-called traditional family values,

00:09:47.160 the Guardian adding so-called there.

00:09:49.100 Until the international ban was enacted,

00:09:50.960 an estimated 250 Italian couples sought surrogacy overseas

00:09:54.960 because it had been illegal in Italy at that time,

00:09:57.660 the vast majority of them straight people

00:09:59.700 who turned to surrogates for health reasons.

00:10:01.920 The practice is legal and regulated in 66 countries, although most Italians access the

00:10:07.520 procedure in the U.S. or Canada, where surrogacy is not specified on the birth certificate and

00:10:12.440 where their child can obtain, here's this, immediate U.S. or Canadian citizenship.

00:10:17.880 Baldini believes there could be, quote, a few dozen children who have been born abroad

00:10:23.120 via surrogacy since the law was enforced.

00:10:25.380 We don't know how many couples are currently in this situation, but from cases I have assisted

00:10:30.240 in the past. I do know that there are those who simply do not want to talk about it as they are

00:10:35.180 afraid, he said. I think I'm not going to finish all of that. Nate, can you scroll down just to

00:10:42.520 the bottom? Okay, so the last, yeah, that's fine. We'll end it there. So in Italy in 2004, actually,

00:10:54.020 A law was passed that made surrogacy illegal, but it did not criminalize an Italian citizen who travels abroad to collect a surrogate baby from another country and then bring that baby back to Italy as an Italian citizen or the child of that Italian family.

00:11:13.020 And so the law that was passed in October closed the loophole and made it illegal for parents to go abroad.

00:11:19.660 And this is something that, you know, bears a lot of similarity to states who would criminalize abortion here in the United States.

00:11:27.560 Would they be able to make it illegal to even go to another state and gain an abortion?

00:11:33.360 You know, if you're in Texas, you go to California. 0.79

00:11:35.440 Italy said, yeah, if you travel abroad, you get a surrogate baby and you come back, we're throwing you in jail.

00:11:40.600 And I love how The Guardian pointed out that they would be classified on the same level as terrorists, pedophiles, and one other sort of heinous criminal.

00:11:51.320 So that's the article that I read last week from The Guardian that got me thinking about this.

00:11:57.440 And really, I didn't know a whole lot about it.

00:11:59.100 And so, gentlemen, any general comments on that before I go through some of the statistics here on surrogacy?

00:12:05.660 i think it's fascinating how different countries that in many ways in their policies wouldn't be

00:12:09.760 explicitly christian it's funny how funny but uh it is amazing that in god's providence even they

00:12:16.020 can see yep like china banned recently it was two years ago they banned gay couples from adopting 0.90

00:12:21.380 right children this is china led by the chinese communist party the ccp

00:12:26.740 and and they said uh it was same thing with effeminacy in uh in media so there was ban 0.79

00:12:33.480 on state media that included effeminate men and they said gay couples nope we're done with that

00:12:38.700 so then same thing in italy like honestly that's pretty based on maloney's part this is what you

00:12:43.300 and i wes we've been talking about just you know privately you know like we have you know we've

00:12:49.940 shared some of this publicly but you know we've had more thorough conversations offline but um

00:12:54.420 people have no idea what's coming right like even like the chart that was posted uh just yesterday

00:12:59.800 on x a bunch of people were sharing it was going semi-viral that was showing uh basic basically

00:13:05.280 was showing um uh college educated uh oh no it was single it was uh single men married men you

00:13:12.580 know and then white men versus uh men of color you're right it was white men and then white

00:13:17.760 women male a person of color males and then uh white females and person of color females and

00:13:24.980 And it was just showing that by age, how much they affirm or stand apart from democratic values.

00:13:34.860 The percent gap between the two, so the gap between the women of color and the men of color, the gap between white women and white men by age.

00:13:42.640 But what it showed was that white males were by far the most conservative, and then a little bit less than that, immeasurably less than that, was white women.

00:13:54.980 And then, you know, um, people of color that are male and then people of color that were female were the most liberal. Uh, but then it also showed based off of age and like for the first time in a very, very long time, as far as I'm aware, um, the, you know, uh, with the, with the white men in specific, um, those who were like 20 to 25 years old were actually more conservative, um, than those who were 70 to 75 years old.

00:14:23.320 like and so what people aren't realizing is that um a backlash is coming that i think would be

00:14:30.600 hard to even put into words i really don't think people understand what's coming uh just in the

00:14:36.260 next five years the next 10 years for sure next 15 years um that there is going the rubber band

00:14:43.480 is going to snap back rather quickly we're already seeing the beginnings of that but if you think and

00:14:47.720 this is it this is as far as it'll go um then i think they're gonna get woke again like these

00:14:52.080 young men that woke up what they're going to do is they're going to go back to the matrix they're

00:14:54.980 going to plug back into the pod and say yeah actually it wasn't that great out there right

00:14:58.340 no that yeah you're you're underestimating um the just the raw energy and ability and ambition

00:15:05.500 of young men and uh as they're realizing you know every day you know by the thousands red

00:15:13.300 pilling and realizing that uh that their own countries have turned against them uh that they

00:15:18.660 have been betrayed and their futures have been sold out and all these kinds of things. And

00:15:23.740 they're red-pilling on nationalism. They're red-pilling on race. They're red-pilling on

00:15:30.880 all these different things. But my point is that, because you brought up China, I think

00:15:36.540 like a lot of Christians wrongfully assume that in order to move in a more conservative direction

00:15:47.100 politically and culturally, that it requires, you know, a spiritual revival, that it's going to

00:15:52.840 require a distinctly Christian revival, a bunch of people ultimately converting to Christianity.

00:15:58.700 And we've pointed this out on the show before that the decline that has been ongoing for decades

00:16:03.820 now in America of Christianity has actually stopped and begun to even turn around, of which 0.71

00:16:09.340 we're very, very grateful. But we don't think that it's particularly helpful. We actually do think 0.93

00:16:14.640 that it's a pitfall of naivety to assume um to assume that that you know that any kind of

00:16:22.260 cultural political move to the right that it necessarily has to come by um a widespread

00:16:28.340 adoption of christian christianity and christian faith um that's not true pagan pagans were

00:16:35.500 conservative islam you know muslims are conservative china um so so china is a great

00:16:41.180 example to say like okay it's it's like the chinese it's not the chinese people because

00:16:45.900 certainly there are millions of chinese people and underground christian churches you know and 0.87

00:16:50.260 these kinds of things but we're you're talking about the ccp you know the the chinese you know 0.96

00:16:54.660 communist government um and and they they're not christian you know but even for them they're like 0.99

00:17:02.580 yeah this doesn't help china it doesn't um china needs to have children we need the birth rate has

00:17:08.820 to go up and like this doesn't. And so you don't have to be Christian to come into some of these 0.95

00:17:15.280 natural observations. And part of the reason why we address these topics, you know, again and again

00:17:21.120 and again is because we want people to know that Christianity actually does deal with these things

00:17:28.160 and we believe that it's true and it's the best foundation. So we're trying in many ways to

00:17:34.640 persuade young men especially to say uh you're you're trending right culturally and politically

00:17:40.660 uh christianity can account for that better than any other um any other you know ideology any other

00:17:47.280 religion on the planet um because young men are going to go nations the world is going right wing

00:17:54.660 whether it's el salvador you know whether like chile you know like all these different hungary

00:17:59.340 the whole world is is trending that direction and it's going to happen much more quickly than

00:18:05.520 we expect especially as this younger generation of predominantly white men comes into age and 0.80

00:18:12.800 and if christians relinquish that space then um then yeah then then they're going to be far

00:18:19.600 right wing regardless they'll just be pagan right wing or muslim right wing or atheist darwinian

00:18:26.380 right wing or whatever um and we want to say no um christianity accounts for this the best

00:18:32.020 christianity holds to all these virtues but then also seasons it with grace um all the other

00:18:38.920 world views that you have to choose from uh there there will be zero mercy zero grace it'll be

00:18:44.600 it'll be rough yeah and i'm hoping that with a topic like surrogacy the right word trend will

00:18:52.160 deal with it but i was thinking like why why talk about this i'm going to get get to the numbers in

00:18:59.300 just a minute but can you imagine if when abortion was being contemplated some nations came out

00:19:06.220 strongly and said yeah we know it's only like a thousand a year but actually no we're not doing

00:19:10.640 this period and if you do this and if you go to another country to do it when you come back you're

00:19:15.280 going to our jail like no one did that initially with abortion and so while surrogacy is not nearly

00:19:21.200 on the level. I mean, every time it happens is terrible, but it's not on the level of the great

00:19:28.700 moral stain that abortion is. Nevertheless, it's kind of ramping up right now. And if we don't nip

00:19:36.600 this in the bud, it would become, apart from God's grace and a rightward shift and everything,

00:19:42.880 we do have to take it seriously, as I'll show some of the forecasts of the financials for some

00:19:47.480 of these companies who are providing this like it is a growing trend and it's something that

00:19:51.380 christians need to be aware of because it gets presented as compassionate as life-affirming

00:19:57.360 even even i could see christians saying well this is part of you know the christian duty because

00:20:02.860 we're supposed to be fruitful and multiply and what about a mother who's she's infertile and

00:20:06.980 she can't have a baby so we're actually helping her be fruitful and and multiply so um i was

00:20:13.560 going to say infertility is probably going to rise too yes this is you know gen z they're children

00:20:18.680 that have grown up yep hopefully the trend is reversing but in a world of toxic dyes a world

00:20:23.040 of toxic clothing yep a world of endocrine disruptors and they're going to reach their

00:20:26.780 years where they're looking forward to having a child but they're going to realize oh my goodness

00:20:31.080 i just am not going to be able to for one reason or another and so to your uh predictions and the

00:20:37.720 the uh estimates of what's going to happen in the future same thing like fertility is going to keep

00:20:42.240 going down and so what will people turn to artificial procedures like these yeah so what

00:20:48.060 are the numbers well in the u.s the first surrogacy officially was performed in 1985

00:20:53.040 go ahead just real quick i have to say this because you you get this response anybody who

00:20:59.080 holds to you know even a semi-biblical view of of masculinity and femininity you know all the uh

00:21:06.620 the screeching hackling hens come out you know on social media all the time in the comment section

00:21:11.900 saying like uh under his eye this is just the handsmaid's tale you know they'll post the pictures

00:21:18.520 and stuff um you know what i find funny about that you know they'll always say like um uh you

00:21:24.500 know like uh doesn't joel know that he's just uh he's a living breathing you know fulfillment of

00:21:30.700 the handsmaid tale or doesn't he know that that book was supposed to be fiction or or or they'll

00:21:35.220 or they'll comment something along the lines of saying like wow this book you know like was pretty

00:21:39.820 prophetic right on the money you know look at these you know the patriarchy bros but but what

00:21:44.560 they don't ever realize is uh what about what about the other portion of the book uh not what

00:21:51.160 they did um but but the set of circumstances the context that created um the need right whether

00:21:59.880 what they did was right or wrong i'm not i'm not supporting it i think it was wrong but um but like

00:22:04.460 what about that uh and what i mean by that is like the whole premise of the handmaid's tale is

00:22:10.480 um that nobody can reproduce anymore that they're doing this because um all the liberals

00:22:17.560 with their birth control with their hormones with their um toxic dyes with you know all the chemicals

00:22:25.460 in the water with all these things that eventually over time what happened is that uh it got to a

00:22:30.580 point where nobody could reproduce very very few people could reproduce and then that's what

00:22:34.860 you know created like it was either the end of the human race or some kind of you know very intense

00:22:40.900 um course correction and uh and so you know like people say like oh you know like uh did they not

00:22:47.920 read the handmaid's tale like this prediction is so accurate this is what trump's doing which is

00:22:52.520 not even close you know or this is what you know the patriarch patriarchy bros are doing um and

00:22:58.080 what they totally miss with it you know in the hands maids tale you know prediction or whatever

00:23:03.520 is um yeah like but aren't you guys a little bit concerned about the the first part of the story

00:23:09.680 that made the entire story necessary the part where humanity is going extinct because the birth

00:23:16.080 rate through abortion right through hormonal birth control uh through uh toxic dyes through all that

00:23:22.100 like what about that part of the story and and michael's right you know he's going to get into

00:23:26.400 the numbers here but um as as our birth rates continue to plummet if if that continues to

00:23:33.120 happen um then then eventually uh with those like surrogacy could become much more commonplace than

00:23:40.780 it is right now yeah so um right now in the u.s now the numbers are going to seem to not add up

00:23:48.380 the official stat is 750 babies in the u.s each year are born using surrogacy however when you

00:23:55.320 add up the number of pregnancies, there have been between 1999 and 2013, there have been 30,927

00:24:02.720 surrogate pregnancies. And you would say, well, 750 a year. I know we're averaging, but that

00:24:08.640 doesn't really add up to the 30,927 total pregnancies. And that is true. That is because 0.97

00:24:15.440 surrogate babies have a higher in utero mortality rate. They pose a lot of danger to the mother or

00:24:24.360 the woman who is birthing or carrying that baby.

00:24:27.960 But as we're going to get into in just a second,

00:24:30.800 they run screens and tests on all of the surrogate babies

00:24:36.120 because that mother is basically, 0.85

00:24:37.920 the mother in the clinic are guaranteeing a perfect baby 0.98

00:24:41.120 to the intended family.

00:24:42.940 And so any abnormalities in womb and those babies are just aborted.

00:24:48.180 In fact, one of the researchers who is advocating for surrogacy 0.98

00:24:51.940 surrogacy, said that surrogacy is really an ideal situation because we are allowed to weed out all

00:24:59.400 of the defective babies. And so because that clinic has promised a perfect baby to that intended

00:25:04.460 family, any sort of abnormality or chromosomal issue which is going to happen, and we're talking

00:25:10.720 about a woman who's carrying a non-DNA child in her womb, there are complications. And so while

00:25:17.360 there are 750 per year the number of attempted surrogacy pregnancies is quite a bit higher

00:25:22.000 and they either die naturally or they they get um aborted it's not unthinkable to some of the far

00:25:27.900 left marxist literature because when you break down all hierarchy well like a family has a

00:25:32.220 hierarchy men aren't incapacitated for nine months when they're pregnant and so far left marxists

00:25:37.140 have said when you when you deconstruct the economy and you make everyone flat and equal

00:25:41.400 you would have to have literally full surrogacy as in no family owns a child so this the ability

00:25:47.360 to do this is actually factored into and i mean we're talking not like your grandma's a liberal

00:25:51.920 who likes labor unions but far left academic progressives have said literally called for

00:25:56.460 full surrogacy now every child should be born through the surrogacy process distributed around

00:26:01.840 the community because that's the best way we can remove the family ties that's the way we can make 0.97

00:26:07.100 sure that love of father and love of homeland isn't passed down and we see marxism pale in 0.74

00:26:12.160 the future nick if you can put up a quote number one on the screen um we need to go to says this

00:26:19.180 the best estimates from experts are that perhaps more than 300 agencies in the u.s

00:26:27.020 actively recruit women primarily to be gestational carriers this is the the basically just the

00:26:32.740 walking womb. That is, to act as a surrogate for intended parents and carry a fetus to which the 0.76

00:26:38.940 women bear no biological relation. There are 300 agencies in the U.S. who are actively recruiting

00:26:43.880 women to serve this function. A years-long increase in demand has fueled what researchers

00:26:49.080 sometimes call, quote, fertility tourism, end quote. For example, this just kills me.

00:26:56.180 Wealthy Chinese parents often hope their children will receive the double benefit

00:27:00.120 of guaranteed U.S. citizenship and access to the American school system

00:27:04.580 by having their babies born here, 0.97

00:27:06.840 not from a Chinese mother who comes here and delivers,

00:27:08.980 but through an American surrogate mother, says Dr. Holly Caselli,

00:27:13.880 chief of maternal fetal medicine at Rady Children's Specialists of San Diego.

00:27:19.660 And so it's not just American women who can't conceive 1.00

00:27:25.580 who are buying into this surrogacy and paying for the surrogacy.

00:27:29.340 A lot of it, like we saw in the article from the beginning, are international couples with a lot of money, gay couples and straight couples, who are hiring American women to be basically just a womb for them.

00:27:42.760 And it's calculated.

00:27:43.920 They're not doing it just in some country like Romania.

00:27:47.480 They're coming to the U.S. to do it because they want their child to have American citizenship.

00:27:50.820 They want the child to be able to stay, learn English, benefit from the education system.

00:27:54.760 All of these things are happening.

00:27:56.040 And 300 of these clinics or institutions, whatever you want to call them, around the U.S. actively looking for women to volunteer their wombs.

00:28:06.340 This has been really dangerous.

00:28:08.160 I read several stories of women who have done this multiple times because they need the money.

00:28:14.100 So they've had ectopic pregnancies or some sort of extreme gestational diabetes where the woman herself has been sick. 0.82

00:28:25.680 the entire time. So it's really quite tragic. Let me go to one more

00:28:33.280 quote from this, and then we'll hit the commercial break. Okay. Nate, can we go to

00:28:38.100 quote number two, please? All right. So second, embryos created via IVF. So this is the other

00:28:46.080 thing is all of these embryos that get implanted, they have to be created via IVF. They are commonly

00:28:51.620 genetically tested, this is what I was mentioning earlier, for major chromosomal abnormalities

00:28:56.060 through PGTA testing, and sometimes tested for inherited genetic diseases through PGD

00:29:01.520 testing.

00:29:02.900 Testing for genetic conditions is almost three times more common in these pregnancies as

00:29:08.840 compared with non, that's the type of surrogacy, IVF cycles.

00:29:13.540 Selecting chromosomally normal embryos through PGTA testing or genetic screening eliminates

00:29:19.100 one cause of spontaneous or elective abortion that conventional pregnancies cannot eliminate.

00:29:23.700 As a result, GCs are less likely to have a medical abortion than pregnant mothers in

00:29:29.040 conventional pregnancies. However, what they're not saying is all the embryos that are created

00:29:33.280 in the Petri dish that get tested, they're acting like it's only an abortion if it gets

00:29:38.140 implanted in the woman's womb and then aborted. But all of those embryos, we covered this a

00:29:44.440 couple of weeks ago that are tested are just discarded, right? Because they're not sufficiently

00:29:49.580 healthy or genetically healthy enough. Okay. We're going to hit our first commercial break.

00:29:54.980 And when we come back, we will hit a couple more of the numbers related to surrogacy.

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00:32:31.000 All right. Welcome back. So we're talking about surrogacy and just the fact that it is rapidly

00:32:37.280 increasing, not only in the US, but around the world, in spite of some countries seeing it for

00:32:42.760 the problem that it is there are 66 countries in the developed world that are 66 countries in

00:32:49.280 general that do allow for it to happen a couple things that people are going to ask um what is

00:32:56.540 the percentage of same-sex couples that look to surrogacy well about 40 percent of surrogate

00:33:02.880 adoptions if you want to call it that are from same-sex couples that's in that's running

00:33:09.580 statistics from canada and the uk where they actually track it in the u.s it's a little

00:33:14.860 harder to tell because it's not regulated by the federal government and so these agencies don't

00:33:20.580 have to report who's adopting but they they estimate about the same amount about 39 percent

00:33:25.320 in the u.s are same-sex couples you you mean in our rush to follow the social contagion that we 0.85

00:33:30.840 quickly allowed for a very unnatural type of union yes and we have no reporting and no understanding 0.98

00:33:36.200 no guidelines to follow and so now i mean children are being trafficked in yet another failing of

00:33:42.440 a bergefell versus hodges you wouldn't that wouldn't happen would it it's crazy no surely

00:33:46.920 not surely this is not a slippery slope or is was not a slippery slope from the beginning in the

00:33:51.480 1980s speaking of slippery slope there is a venture capital firm out there trying to select

00:33:55.400 for iq in embryos like how dystopian and terrible is that yeah like you survived yes and 30 of your

00:34:02.120 siblings did not make it because they weren't as smart as you yeah what an awful mechanical 0.76

00:34:06.340 sterile way to think about life yeah yeah um this is not going away it's on the rise as i was doing

00:34:13.220 research i found surprisingly a lot of companies that do estimates on the financial um they're

00:34:22.620 for investors they do forecasts on companies to determine their financial health and viability

00:34:29.020 over a 10-year window. And a lot of these reports are being run on surrogacy companies who are

00:34:36.080 planning to go public or just to give people a sense of how strong and how growing the industry

00:34:43.100 is. There's a lot of money in surrogacy and there's going to be a lot more in it unless

00:34:48.180 we stop it right here while it's still not a huge problem. Right now in the U.S., surrogacy is,

00:34:56.280 uh well in 2020 it was a four billion dollar market in 2024 it was a 14 billion dollar market

00:35:04.580 so 10 billion dollar increase in just a couple of years and uh analysts uh predict that by

00:35:12.020 um 2034 it'll be a one you can put this first graph on the on the screen um it'll be a 129.9

00:35:22.920 billion market wow um so this is a uh a 25 growth rate uh year over year which is absolutely insane

00:35:32.620 and it's a cycle too because pharmaceuticals i mean it is hard to make money you're entering

00:35:37.480 crowded markets there's drug exclusivity and patents i used to work in it and uh and so

00:35:42.100 pharmaceuticals are always on the look for what is a field something that i could enter but it's a

00:35:47.300 cycle in that as they enter and they advertise it people get the idea that i should do this

00:35:51.860 and then they do it more creating more demand and then there's more demand so it's a more 0.94

00:35:55.080 profitable market and to be honest it's the same thing with transgender surgeries yes they're over

00:35:59.860 100k per person and lifetime care you don't have doctors and you don't have pharmaceutical

00:36:04.780 companies and hospitals looking at this procedure and being like oh my goodness this is just for

00:36:09.040 the betterment of mankind right they're looking at money the root the love of money is the root

00:36:14.140 of all kinds of evil paul says that at the base of it a lot of times they really just want money 0.52

00:36:19.300 and they're exploiting mothers who need the money and then couples, at least in the case of straight

00:36:24.140 couples, who are in a difficult spot. Yeah. These are not cheap either. So, Nate, let's show graph

00:36:29.120 number two here. This shows the average surrogacy costs by country. So, in the United States, it

00:36:36.660 costs, with IVF, which is most of them, about $145,000 that the intended family is paying out

00:36:45.720 of pocket in order to fund this. This goes to the surrogate, the woman with the womb.

00:36:53.180 That woman usually makes between $30,000 and $60,000. It goes to the clinic. And then a lot 0.99

00:36:59.120 of it just goes to the cost of the IVF and all the actual procedures. And it also goes to cover

00:37:05.180 medical care for the woman. So checkups, prenatal checkups, the delivery, things like that. So

00:37:13.500 they're they're really expensive what's interesting to me is that the u.s like you said west is

00:37:19.140 charging a ton more money than any of the other countries and probably some of that is is our

00:37:25.820 medical system costs more but a lot of it too is just that we are an attractive quote-unquote market

00:37:31.380 to have your baby in right for the reasons that we mentioned earlier with gaining immediate

00:37:36.520 citizenship as soon as the baby is born there it's it's um one of the terrible things that

00:37:43.100 trump has done is he commissioned through executive order for his administration to look into how to

00:37:47.720 take these costs and to bring them down right including with government assistance which is

00:37:52.440 terrible right that is there's no defense of that or right we obviously support trump and a lot of

00:37:57.840 things he does but that might be the single worst thing he's done so far is to commission how could

00:38:03.680 we do this for more families cheaper that's awful we should pray that that should not we do not come

00:38:07.540 to pass and um i i hope that it will be something that he just ticks off as having fulfilled the

00:38:13.100 campaign promise and then just kind of lets slide away or fall by the wayside um that remains to be

00:38:19.060 seen um but it is very wrapped up in this whole surrogacy thing because they have to get an embryo

00:38:25.420 and then it has to be implanted in um a woman a lot of times they're even sometimes inducing her

00:38:31.500 her cycle or her um pregnancy chemically like it's really it's really anti to understatement

00:38:39.560 of the year it's completely anti-nature uh in in this way so we're gonna dive into some clips from

00:38:45.500 this jordan peterson interview which is really good any any comments on the numbers or just what

00:38:50.580 it is before we jump into the clips gentlemen well it just shows like the danger of i'm a capitalist

00:38:57.640 okay but i will i will absolutely admit there is such a thing as crony capitalism like capitalism

00:39:04.520 is not um it's not the gospel right it's uh it is not some infallible inherently moral system i

00:39:11.840 think that capitalism beats socialism and especially socialism as we've seen it you know

00:39:17.060 demonstrated by uh you know the bolsheviks in russia you know or in china like in in communist

00:39:23.280 socialist nations. What we've seen is leftist examples of socialism, and they're all absolutely

00:39:32.080 terrible. And the old adage rings true that socialism is the fourth stench of communism and

00:39:36.500 all those kinds of things when we're talking about the political, economic, cultural left.

00:39:41.640 However, that said, we shouldn't pretend as though that simply by having a free market,

00:39:49.860 that it's going to somehow right every single, um, economic wrong. Um, that that's part of the

00:39:58.760 problem with capitalism. This is why the state it's funny, you know, because like in 2020,

00:40:03.340 you know, it's like Lex, Lex Rex, you know, the, you know, Samuel Rutherford, and I agree with all

00:40:07.840 those things. Um, but it's just, you know, there's, there's a law above the King. And, uh, and, and if

00:40:13.300 you're not careful, like Christians, conservative Christians can basically, in terms of their

00:40:17.680 political philosophy, they can be functionally libertarians, you know, and then you just 0.98

00:40:22.000 add like some, you know, I'm a theocratic libertarian, you know, you give it some kind

00:40:26.360 of, you know, qualifying statement before, you know, to make sure that it's explicitly

00:40:30.440 Christian, you know, but, but this is why like Romans 13, when it says that the state

00:40:35.840 exists, he bears the sword and, and not for nothing.

00:40:38.820 He, he exists as God's avenger on the wrongdoer.

00:40:42.080 So then the question is, can you do wrong in markets?

00:40:45.900 Can you do wrong in commerce?

00:40:47.680 Can you do economic wrong?

00:40:49.540 Can you like, can corporations do wrong?

00:40:52.320 Or is it just individuals, you know, when it comes to, you know, physically going into

00:40:55.860 somebody's house and stealing from them, you know, or when it comes to like that, my point

00:41:01.720 is, I think Christians, conservative Christians have been just like, like the, the, the Christian 0.63

00:41:09.520 version of Ron Swanson, you know, but that is not, I have a permit.

00:41:15.060 I can do what I want.

00:41:15.680 I can do what I want.

00:41:16.520 leave me alone small government and and i remember thinking about this you know it took me a couple

00:41:20.980 years 2020 that was kind of my solution was we just you know this is this is government tyranny

00:41:25.440 you know and the solution is we just need a smaller state um well i i think that if we had

00:41:30.920 a christian government number one small state doesn't equal righteous state um and i for the

00:41:36.780 longest time i just thought like just just by by necessity um by you know by default of of shrinking

00:41:44.040 the government, it would just automatically become better, more moral. But you can have a

00:41:51.980 big government that is wicked and you can have a small government that's wicked. Now, I do think

00:41:57.200 that the Bible actually does address certain jurisdictions of the state and there are certain

00:42:02.200 things where they need to stay in their lane. But the reality is, we've said this before, but I'll

00:42:07.240 say it again briefly. The reality is, is if we had a perfectly Christian government tomorrow, 0.51

00:42:12.820 it would be smaller in many capacities. It would probably be larger though, 1.00

00:42:19.400 in some other capacities. At least right here, right now.

00:42:22.380 At least right here, right now. And one of those capacities is, yeah, a perfectly free market with

00:42:31.100 no regulation whatsoever. I think that that's a problem. I mean, there are plenty of guys,

00:42:36.460 guys that we, that we love and that we respect, you know, Christian guys who are like, well, 1.00

00:42:40.640 tariffs, that's, um, that's, you know, that's immoral. That's inherently, uh, that's outside 0.97

00:42:46.100 of what the jurisdiction that the Bible gives to governments and you shouldn't do it. You know,

00:42:49.760 it's this invisible, you know, tax, somebody makes a product over here and they want to sell

00:42:53.820 it over here. And, you know, and the government just gets a piece and that's, and that's wrong.

00:42:58.420 Um, but here's the reality is that if, um, if the government does nothing, if the government has not

00:43:04.320 been given by god any jurisdiction in the realm of commerce in the realm of markets uh then then

00:43:11.160 this is what happens is that somebody comes up with something wicked and it sells yep and and

00:43:17.480 then all of a sudden it's a multi multi-billion dollar industry one of the most profitable tech

00:43:21.400 companies by employee is only fans like per employee the amount of revenue that it makes

00:43:25.200 right and you could say you know like to be fair play you know to give the counter you know our

00:43:31.260 many of our friends they would say yeah but the the solution there is on on you know the realm

00:43:36.720 of morality that you just you ban pornography right you know and problem solved right um

00:43:41.380 but but there's also there there is something to be said for there are some things that are going

00:43:47.820 to become they're not as blatantly obvious morally obvious as pornography like what do you do when

00:43:53.700 facebook you know um right has achieved a monopoly in terms of you know virtually not completely but

00:44:00.380 virtually a monopoly or let's say okay instead of one company it's seven but what do you do when

00:44:04.460 it's not 700 but it's seven companies or even just three companies like meta you know youtube and

00:44:10.420 and twitter and and it's the 2020 election and they just collectively you know decide like we're

00:44:16.660 gonna we're just gonna disappear down the rabbit hole you know the hunter biden laptop case you

00:44:22.340 know like then the state actually has to step in to these free corporations and say i'm sorry you

00:44:28.300 no you can't do that it's like well it's my company don't i have the right to do no

00:44:32.320 because you you literally have a monopoly on on speech and and speech needs to be free and this

00:44:40.780 is you're actually influencing um elections and so if you're free then the election's not

00:44:46.180 and they actually have a vested interest in doing something about it well the other thing about that

00:44:50.400 is the emergence of the capitalism is american and small government is american we have to remember

00:44:57.760 the time period when that became popular that was when america was fighting communism when our ally

00:45:03.260 was the ussr and so what we were doing is we were saying what does it mean to be an american well

00:45:08.280 it's it's not what russia is doing it's not the government owning everything it is it's not

00:45:13.460 centrally planned it's not centrally planned right it's it's not this huge massive government that

00:45:19.480 controls every part of everyone's life no we're americans and we're christians and so we're going

00:45:23.620 to be for small government we're going to be for capitalism and i think that that wasn't necessarily

00:45:27.520 an inappropriate sentiment when the external enemy was communism and the USSR and the Cold War.

00:45:34.900 But we don't live in that time anymore, and so we need to think carefully about what the principles

00:45:38.740 are and how they relate to us being America first and all of the things that Trump is saying.

00:45:44.820 The Bible gives us, none of us have any qualms or any debate, we love this, about the Christian

00:45:51.720 faith and about the scripture. The Bible gives us some universal transcendent principles

00:45:56.240 that are non-negotiable, you don't get to go against them. But we do need to bifurcate,

00:46:02.380 distinguish, and be honest that there is a distinction between the principles themselves

00:46:07.580 that are immutable and stem from the unchanging law of God that's transcendent above all people

00:46:13.240 and all places and all governments and all time versus the unique and specific applications

00:46:18.620 of those. And there is variance. There just is. There is variance of how these principles should

00:46:26.660 be practically applied by this government in this country at this time, depending on this context

00:46:34.460 and what's going on. Yeah. So good. Okay. With that established, we want to get into this interview.

00:46:40.200 And one of the things that we wanted to say, this is an interview between Jordan Peterson and Katie

00:46:45.120 Faust. And Katie is a self-described advocate for children's rights, the rights of the unborn.

00:46:50.000 A Christian to evangelical Christian. Unashamedly so.

00:46:52.740 Yep. And in spite of all the time that we spend making our presence known to right-wing watch and

00:47:01.100 criticizing the involvement of women in the public sphere, we also have to be honest about the time

00:47:05.480 that we live in, right? And we don't live in a patriarchal society again yet. And we just wanted 0.97

00:47:10.520 to say like she really does a good job yeah um she is to be commended for her work on pushing back

00:47:15.660 on jordan peterson in this episode because i i just have clips but if you guys watch the whole

00:47:20.820 episode there are many times where he just he's stuck she backs him into a corner and he literally

00:47:28.300 can't get out of it and she just sits there and watches him kind of in a similar it's not

00:47:33.540 antagonistic they're on this he's not hostile to her but with that kathy newman episode uh

00:47:38.460 interview with jordan peterson from way back when when he would say something and get her backed in

00:47:42.240 there are several k several times in this interview where he is just sitting there like uh

00:47:46.980 oh uh well uh let's see uh and and you know to their credit they didn't cut away his stammers

00:47:52.280 and things like that they left the full interview but she really does a good job pushing back on

00:47:56.460 this issue in in a really important and i thought really clarifying way so we've had some issues

00:48:02.320 with copyright,

00:48:05.100 some of the videos that we've done.

00:48:06.480 So I broke them into smaller chunks this time.

00:48:09.780 So it's going to be a little bit more

00:48:11.640 kind of broken up.

00:48:12.940 I always thought that the rule

00:48:14.280 was just that you had to,

00:48:16.060 if you're going to show a video or clip,

00:48:18.060 you just had to commentate.

00:48:19.420 Yes, that is technically the rule.

00:48:21.600 AI is to blame.

00:48:23.380 AI is to blame.

00:48:24.160 That's what Nathan says.

00:48:25.000 It's official.

00:48:25.500 If Nathan says it,

00:48:26.680 then it's true.

00:48:27.820 You can take it to the bank.

00:48:28.480 Yeah, you can take it to the bank.

00:48:29.520 But I always thought that it was

00:48:30.920 uh less of like the size of the video but it was more so like the uh percentage like i would

00:48:35.400 understand if you're showing like a 27 minute clip you know like half of a movie and then and

00:48:41.140 then you give 30 seconds of commentary on the end of it but our live streams you're talking on

00:48:45.880 average two hour video and we show a two minute minute clip and i just felt like that would be

00:48:51.300 okay but it's not so you chopped it up yeah so it'll be a little bit broken we'll say a couple

00:48:55.560 things but really some of these segments are are longer commentaries by katie and they're kind of

00:49:02.120 artificially broken up we are we are not doing my point is we're not doing this to try and be

00:49:06.280 disingenuous to her argument or to the conversation we're doing this so that our video can stay yes

00:49:11.120 correct okay nate let's roll uh that first uh first clip there but functionally what that means

00:49:18.180 so a lot of gay marriage was disconnecting those two this isn't about kids oh there's a lot of

00:49:23.460 heterosexuals that can't have kids. So, you know, so gays can be married too. So, but when they did

00:49:28.540 connect it to kids, what they said, what I heard them saying is kids don't care if they have two

00:49:33.440 moms or two dads. But functionally, what that means is kids don't care if they have lost their

00:49:39.800 mom or lost their dad. That's what you're talking about. When you see the picture of a child with

00:49:45.080 two moms, you're looking at a picture of a child who has lost their dad. When you're looking at a

00:49:49.240 child with two dads, you are looking at a little girl or a little boy who has lost their mother.

00:49:54.760 Now, sometimes that happens through tragedy. We used to experience that kind of, especially

00:50:00.160 father loss on a mass scale, for example, after wars. Before modern medicine, we used to experience

00:50:06.640 mother loss at the time of birth. But thank God, due to modern warfare and modern technology,

00:50:12.220 we are not seeing father and mother loss to tragedy on a mass scale like that.

00:50:16.120 What we are now seeing is mother and father loss intentionally, and now due to reproductive technologies, commercially.

00:50:23.660 But we're not looking at it as tragic anymore.

00:50:25.980 Now we're looking at it as a step of progress.

00:50:31.400 Yeah.

00:50:33.520 So she's laying some groundwork for what's going to come, where previously in history, the loss of a mother or a father was always because of tragedy.

00:50:44.020 Right.

00:50:44.280 And where she's going is she's going to make the case that now the loss of a mother or a father is because of convenience or fulfillment or commerce.

00:50:56.140 And so she's saying, but it does stand, it's a good point as she lays her case that this is always,

00:51:02.820 a child growing up without a mother or a father has always been conceived or perceived as a terrible situation.

00:51:09.460 And one that a community needs to band around, one that would be brought on by war, by the death of the mother and childbirth, some horrible situation that leaves the children permanently altered from grief and from the lack of that bonding with either the mother or the father.

00:51:25.900 Right. Yep.

00:51:26.620 Yep.

00:51:27.700 Okay, Nate, let's press on.

00:51:29.280 Clip number two.

00:51:30.720 You should be a function of this.

00:51:32.180 I remember the conversation you guys had where he said, I kind of feel like I'm at the end of

00:51:36.740 what the maturation that I can achieve without having children, in essence, is how that

00:51:42.560 conversation went. And that is true. Children do mature you in ways that other relationships and 0.99

00:51:48.680 other demands do not. But children are not a function of your maturation. You should be a

00:51:53.740 function of theirs. So I understand. First of all, let me say Dave Rubin, incredibly talented, 0.92

00:51:59.520 absolute champion of Western values,

00:52:01.480 probably one of the most talented interviewers

00:52:03.780 that I know of right now.

00:52:06.260 And what he did to those children is 100% unjust.

00:52:10.080 Unfortunately, he forced the smallest, the weakest,

00:52:13.380 the most vulnerable to sacrifice for two grown men.

00:52:16.920 And even though they can try to make up for it

00:52:19.020 with freezers full of breast milk,

00:52:21.440 nighttime nannies, and the mothers in their life,

00:52:23.960 they have denied their children,

00:52:26.000 not just one mother, not just two mothers,

00:52:28.400 But I would argue all three mothers, all three roles that a mother provides.

00:52:35.120 So she's talking there about Dave Rubin.

00:52:37.340 And if you don't know the backstory, Jordan Peterson toured with Dave Rubin, and they had a public podcast episode where they talked through the, I guess, nuances and moral intricacies of two men adopting a child through surrogacy and what that's going to do.

00:52:54.920 And is it possible to raise functional, flourishing children?

00:52:58.400 and hosted on what platform on daily wire yeah yeah um so she is going after jordan peterson

00:53:07.400 and and really i wish there would be some men who would do this who are just saying you're wrong and

00:53:12.420 dave rubin was unjust like this is an unjust and immoral thing that he and his so-called husband

00:53:18.800 have done to these two boys in adopting them into surrogacy and remember a lot of your

00:53:23.600 conservative champions you're chris rufos you're uh i think some guys in the blaze like glenn beck

00:53:28.920 and others they were celebrating yep dave when he came out they came out congratulations they're

00:53:33.800 like we're so happy for you have fun not sleeping what are we doing here right and that's not for

00:53:40.760 the record western values that dave rubin champions if those are western values i don't want any part

00:53:44.740 of them right wes you made a comment about the good point about maturation did you want to expand

00:53:48.760 on that at all give me a little bit of a reminder well it's okay she says that um

00:53:53.480 while having children does mature a father and a mother the purpose in the role is not

00:54:02.740 because because dave rubin had said i've reached the the peak maturation as a human that i can

00:54:08.300 achieve just in the same-sex relationship and so she's saying that's actually not the function of

00:54:14.320 child birth. It's not the purpose of children. Yes, it does happen. It does. It does happen.

00:54:18.500 God uses, like, the fact that I have five children, God has used that immensely to sanctify

00:54:23.560 me. But that's not, it's not what the kids can do for me. God is gracious. And so when

00:54:30.460 God gives a blessing, he usually blesses everybody involved. That just speaks to the generosity

00:54:34.580 and the heart of God and how rich his blessings really are. God gives a blessing and it blesses

00:54:39.120 in every direction and so praise be to god but um but the father child relationship is not

00:54:45.880 predominantly what can the child do for me how can it shape me how can it improve me it's what

00:54:50.800 what can i do sacrificially and give you my life for this child that's right yeah go ahead yeah

00:54:55.740 that's really that's pretty much exactly it yeah and it's just also a way of thinking too there's

00:55:01.360 a way of thinking of the world as fixed and kind of unchanging that there's laws of nature that

00:55:05.320 you just can't tamper with carl truman talks about this in his book on the modern spirit and

00:55:09.720 then there's a way of thinking like well everything in the world is changeable like my dad was raised

00:55:13.380 on formula instead of breastfeeding because there was a period in the 70s and the 80s where they

00:55:17.580 were like well why would we need to do it like that that sounds kind of painful that sounds

00:55:21.360 inconvenient why not just take formula that has vegetable oil in it and feed that to a baby instead

00:55:26.620 and i understand there's situations where it's impossible but that's fundamentally a view of

00:55:30.780 the world where it's like yeah there's we can mess with any of these systems and they'll work

00:55:34.700 just as fine we can we can tamper with this we can make kids in a lab really the sky's the limit

00:55:40.060 versus the way i think for thousands of years humans look to the world this is how it is these

00:55:45.840 are how the rules set up they're ordained by god right god put them in place but we actually don't

00:55:50.600 have the freedom to just play around with them and see what happens and expect it all go well

00:55:54.600 right i've shared before everybody you know at this point probably knows you know i've shared

00:55:58.940 it publicly but um i was adopted and adoption is you know it's a picture of the gospel god

00:56:04.200 adopts us as his children, you know, by the spirit, you know, the spirit which dwells within

00:56:08.300 us. You know, if you're a Christian, your body's a temple of the Holy Spirit, the spirit dwells

00:56:12.200 within you, and he affirms our adoption by crying out within us, Abba, Father. And so, all these

00:56:17.100 things are beautiful, you know, doctrines of the scripture, the doctrine of adoption that's a

00:56:22.660 picture of the gospel. But it's important to remember that when it comes to physical, you

00:56:29.440 earthly adoption, yeah, it can be beautiful, it's redemptive, but the whole reason it exists

00:56:37.800 is because of sin. Adoption only exists because there's orphans, and orphans only exist because

00:56:44.020 of sin, because someone either rejected you or somebody died, you know, death entered the world

00:56:50.080 by sin. So, adoption only even exists in the human sense because of sin. Even our spiritual adoption,

00:56:56.500 you know even that exists because we were once separated from god because of sin and that's why

00:57:02.920 he has to um uh draw us and and reconcile us to himself by grace at the cost of you know the life

00:57:09.820 of his own son who died on the cross for our sins um and so all that being said applied to a physical

00:57:16.380 temporal plane when we're talking you know biologically and physically and you know the

00:57:20.020 parent-child relationship. Yes, adoption is a picture of the gospel. And yes, it is redemptive

00:57:27.220 when it's done well. It is absolutely redemptive. It's better than the child just being an orphan.

00:57:31.780 But we should still admit, even with adoption, it's not best. It's the best that we can do

00:57:38.200 given the circumstances that have been shattered by sin. So, it's good. I'm not saying that it's

00:57:43.340 not good. It is good. And God blesses it. And I think it honors the Lord when it's done with

00:57:48.500 wisdom and also with sacrifice. It's not just wisdom, it's wisdom, but it's also sacrifice

00:57:53.480 and generosity and love and all these things. And when it's done well with prudence and with love,

00:57:58.960 especially by Christians, then it is good. But the best would be that it didn't have to happen at all.

00:58:06.640 And to pretend that, see, this gets into the larger conversations and things that we've been

00:58:11.880 talking about in terms of nature and in terms of biology um no like the the child who is adopted is

00:58:20.420 perpetually at some level of disadvantage having never known its biological father and mother

00:58:25.880 it it is um like you were saying like your dad you know he was breastfed fed because his generation

00:58:33.580 there was a psyop on all the moms or a formula fed because there was a psyop that you know

00:58:38.180 breastfeeding was you know inconvenient and it really didn't matter you know and i was bottle

00:58:42.800 fed obviously because i was adopted and so you know my my adoptive mother was not able to breastfeed

00:58:47.540 um but but in all those things it's like no you you know like praise god for formula because some

00:58:54.800 people can't breastfeed right right you know my wife has had struggles with that and if it wasn't

00:58:59.180 for alternative solutions then we'd be in rough shape a couple of my children probably wouldn't

00:59:04.780 even be alive and so i'm grateful for modern innovations and and developments and technology

00:59:10.200 these things are wonderful um when they have to be done when they when they're utterly necessary

00:59:16.280 when they become vital uh then it's wonderful that we have something instead of nothing uh but when

00:59:22.340 you when you begin to pretend as though the ideal doesn't even exist right that there's no ideal at

00:59:27.720 all right that you know um you know you know if you want to just do it out of convenience you know

00:59:33.060 you just don't feel like breastfeeding you know um then okay go ahead and use formula or you know

00:59:37.720 if you just want to do you know like like you actually could have children but you've chosen 0.88

00:59:42.620 to be in a homosexual same-sex you know mirage relationship and uh and and so now you're going 0.62

00:59:49.780 to use surrogacy to like no um just because you can doesn't mean you should do you have the clips 0.68

00:59:55.660 michael i don't want to step on them if we get to them later but the the chemical bond between

00:59:58.980 mothers and babies. Yeah, let's do that. I think there is a

01:00:01.120 clip. I didn't do the long ones.

01:00:03.200 She does mention it. I know there's a short one.

01:00:05.200 Yeah. Okay. Sounds like a little ahead of time.

01:00:09.620 Peterson points out, Joel,

01:00:11.120 to your point, that, well,

01:00:13.060 you know, Dave Rubin's partner is

01:00:15.080 very motherly and affectionate

01:00:17.080 and effeminate towards the children,

01:00:19.200 or I forget which word he uses.

01:00:21.140 And so she actually goes in, to your

01:00:23.120 point, Joel, and she talks about how you actually

01:00:25.120 can't replace mother with just an effeminate

01:00:27.320 man. So Nate, we're going to play three clips in a row, and I'm just going to basically say,

01:00:31.320 and then there's the next clip. She's making one larger point here. So let's roll into this

01:00:35.880 little next section on the three roles of a mother. Number one is the genetic mother, 1.00

01:00:40.600 who provides 50% of the child's biological identity. And that is a critical piece of

01:00:46.920 identity consolidation and formation. It is very hard for kids to answer the question,

01:00:53.800 who am I? If they cannot answer the question, whose am I? And unfortunately, Dave and David

01:01:01.400 have severed their children from 50% of the answer to that question. So there's number one

01:01:06.200 mother that they've cut them off of. Okay, so that's her first point. We got a little break

01:01:11.640 here for copyright. Second point. Number two, the birth mother. This is not only the most critical,

01:01:19.320 but the only relationship that children have for the first nine and a half months

01:01:23.080 of their life. And the day that the child is born is the day when they're supposed to see the mother

01:01:28.520 they already love for the first time, not the last. Why is it that we put children, newborns,

01:01:34.360 on the chest of their mothers? It is not so they can form a bond. It is because children have an

01:01:39.880 existing bond with that woman. It is her body, her smell, her voice that soothes the baby. She is the

01:01:47.560 the only thing that that child knows. We have measured, and it is her presence that decreases

01:01:53.480 baby's cortisol levels, especially in the first couple days and weeks. Her presence, okay, yeah,

01:01:59.240 go ahead. Random moms. Her presence specifically. Random people, even the child's father, do not 1.00

01:02:05.780 decrease cortisol levels and increase oxytocin levels in children the way that the child's own

01:02:10.860 birth mother does. So that's mother number two. Okay, we'll hit that in a second, Wes, because

01:02:16.360 that's, I think, the clip you were talking about. Let's roll her third point, and then we'll come

01:02:19.700 back and talk about that. And then mother number three is the social mother, the woman that is

01:02:24.320 providing the daily maternal love that satisfies children's souls and maximizes their development.

01:02:31.220 So what surrogacy does is it splices what should be one person, mother, into three purchasable and 0.97

01:02:38.040 optional women, the genetic mother who provides the egg, the birth mother that gestates the child,

01:02:43.460 and the social mother that provides all of that female distinct nurturing that will, in essence, 0.81

01:02:50.840 lead the child to that place of balance, thriving, and independence later on in life.

01:02:56.800 And unfortunately, Dave and his husband, David, have starved their children of all three of those,

01:03:03.560 not because of tragedy, intentionally and commercially.

01:03:09.180 Hmm.

01:03:10.780 I'm going to jump in on the chemical bond there, Wes.

01:03:12.500 i mean i can just say and i probably speak for all three of us this topic when i see two men with a

01:03:17.300 baby fills me like nothing else with volcanic rage amen because i'm obviously i was there we

01:03:25.420 had our last child at home and the baby comes out and it's just it's blind yep it's traumatized

01:03:30.480 and it goes for mom and it's just like that's the only thing it knows and it clings so tightly and 0.98

01:03:35.400 it's held there in warmth for gay men to to purchase that so they could larp and pretend 0.97

01:03:41.320 we're parents too you you need to hate that yeah with a perfect hatred to hate not just the idea i 0.99

01:03:48.540 hate the idea of surrogacy the wicked people that do this and the systems and so-called even

01:03:54.000 conservatives that allow it to continue um so all that and the chemicals she touched on it well

01:03:58.460 they touch on it later in the episode too but the incredible bond between mother and child is that

01:04:02.640 the mother's body uh as the baby breastfeeds actually takes in feedback from the baby what

01:04:08.480 the baby's lacking in nutrition antibodies that it's lacking if it's fighting off a cold there's

01:04:13.140 even she mentioned mentions in the episode but if the baby's lacking in calcium the mother's body

01:04:17.700 will take it from her own bones and deliver it through the breast milk now evolution didn't do

01:04:23.100 that god did that in a beautiful relationship and so mother to baby baby then for the mother 0.94

01:04:28.680 for one it decreases her risk of postpartum so every single surrogate woman that has been

01:04:33.580 deprived of that child, you also subjected her to higher rates of suicide, worse rates of

01:04:38.620 postpartum, more difficult recovery. There's also even pain. The pain of recovery is lessened

01:04:44.420 through breastfeeding and bonding and oscytosis and everything like that. You are absolutely

01:04:49.400 destroying with a wrecking ball, a beautiful system for health, for vitality, for even later

01:04:56.140 on in life. I mean, we've talked about things that happen before you give birth. How formative

01:05:00.120 would those first weeks and months be and so not just at a philosophical level not just at an ideal

01:05:06.800 level like well theoretically it should be best no practically tangibly biologically that is the

01:05:13.380 optimal way for it to be the woman bearing the child of her husband and obviously its father

01:05:19.800 yeah it's really well said and i don't think i can add anything to that um so let's hit our second

01:05:26.040 second commercial break and we'll come back and hit a few more clips okay all right the clock is

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01:07:45.180 All right, so we're going to jump into the next round of clips here.

01:07:48.320 And she's going to talk about mother loss.

01:07:51.440 Elsewhere in the episode, she does talk about the importance of fathers,

01:07:54.280 but she's still trying to pin Jordan Peterson down on specifically gay men,

01:08:00.060 quote-unquote, adopting a child.

01:08:01.920 And so she's going to talk about the results of depriving a child of his or her mother. 1.00

01:08:06.960 And so don't take what she says to just be exclusively feminist and the mother is the only important.

01:08:14.260 She speaks very highly of the importance of fathers in a child's life elsewhere in the episode.

01:08:19.700 But here again, she's going after Jordan Peterson on this topic of Dave Rubin and Dave Rubin's supposed husband.

01:08:25.960 And she's going to get into the idea of what leads to societal flourishing.

01:08:30.420 and people who push for surrogacy are going to say there's no in fact studies quote unquote have

01:08:38.000 been done she's going to get into them that so that purport to say that there's no difference

01:08:43.780 in outcome for children who are raised through surrogacy or raised in gay households and and 0.83

01:08:49.400 her whole point here is that that is death to a society right this path is death to a society 0.90

01:08:56.080 it cannot be a path to stability, long-lasting permanence, or flourishing. So, Nate, let's go

01:09:03.800 ahead and start rolling some of these clips, and we'll say one or two things in between them,

01:09:07.240 and then maybe we'll save our longer comments for after we finish all of these.

01:09:11.300 Policy decisions. And I will tell you, I can use the same metric and rubric, and I think this is

01:09:17.280 great for personal decisions and policy decisions. And that one rubric is adults should sacrifice so 0.98

01:09:22.400 kids don't have to. We should not force children to do hard things on behalf of adults. And

01:09:27.700 ultimately, any form of surrogacy is forcing children to sacrifice something so adults can

01:09:33.440 have what they want. Nobody has a right to a child. Children have a right to their mother and

01:09:41.440 father. Well said. Yeah. And she goes through, like I said in the episode, she unpacks actually

01:09:49.020 the principles of natural law and explains how a child can have the right to parents,

01:09:54.880 but adults do not have a right to children necessarily.

01:09:59.720 So, okay, she's going to build from there.

01:10:01.440 Let's go on to the next clip here, Nate.

01:10:04.440 The ways that you're talking about, the mother loss is so antithetical to our species, right?

01:10:10.800 That mother and child are bonded so tightly, both in the ways that you're talking about

01:10:15.380 in terms of like responsiveness of breast milk formulation.

01:10:19.660 I mean, I always joke that mother's breast milk will change

01:10:23.040 whether or not she's nursing a boy or a girl. 1.00

01:10:25.080 So mom's boobs know male and female 0.92

01:10:27.500 when a lot of Yale University professors do not, okay? 0.98

01:10:31.080 I mean, like mother-infant bond and reciprocity

01:10:33.800 between the two of them is primal.

01:10:37.400 I mean, that's really the only word that you can have for it.

01:10:39.340 And so we don't have a lot of studies

01:10:41.720 of mother loss in children

01:10:44.000 because it goes against the grain of what it means to be human.

01:10:48.580 And now we think we are just going to casually say,

01:10:51.640 you know what, we can intentionally and commercially

01:10:53.880 sever that bond between mother and child

01:10:56.400 because we have the means to do it. 0.92

01:10:59.260 And who am I to say that a woman who's 35

01:11:02.120 that has the means, that desperately wants to be a mother 0.98

01:11:04.520 who is going to take home her own genetic child, 1.00

01:11:07.020 who am I to say that she shouldn't do that?

01:11:09.660 Well, I'm here to say as best as I can

01:11:12.940 that I am representing the interest of that child.

01:11:15.820 And the interest of that child

01:11:17.020 is to not be intentionally separated

01:11:19.040 from the only person they know

01:11:20.260 the day that they are born.

01:11:23.940 I love her fight for children.

01:11:27.460 And I mean, obviously we talk about,

01:11:28.720 on the show a lot about women 1.00

01:11:30.480 and being keepers at home

01:11:31.580 and the gentle and quiet spirit

01:11:33.620 that Peter says is beautiful in women.

01:11:35.980 But praise God for in this moment, 0.99

01:11:37.680 kind of like a Deborah, 0.56

01:11:38.620 because at least the men that are speaking about it,

01:11:40.580 they don't have the platforms,

01:11:41.700 they're not writing the books,

01:11:42.460 that uh she's up there saying no i'm gonna fight for these kids so right yeah and in time obviously

01:11:47.200 we'd hope this isn't a fight we have to fight at all and katie gets to enjoy her grandchildren

01:11:51.060 right and i'm sure she will amen but uh amen people have to understand her now amen i'm glad

01:11:56.180 you mentioned that people need to understand um the difference between having convictions and being

01:12:02.220 an ideologue um you know it's like that that's and that's difficult i think for a lot of people

01:12:08.100 because they have no category but the category of hypocrisy.

01:12:12.540 They just don't know what to do with it.

01:12:14.940 So they're like, well, wait a second, aren't you patriarchal

01:12:17.260 and you believe in, you know, you're not a fan of universal suffrage

01:12:20.380 and you think there should be household votes and all that kind of thing. 0.78

01:12:22.620 Uh-huh, I believe that.

01:12:23.640 My wife believes that.

01:12:24.600 And the two of us went together and both voted for Trump.

01:12:27.060 That's right.

01:12:27.660 It's like, how'd you do that? 0.98

01:12:29.060 That's hypocritical. 0.89

01:12:30.460 No, you're understanding place and time 0.89

01:12:32.580 and you're working within the context

01:12:34.920 that the Lord and His providence has currently placed you in

01:12:37.980 And there are some things that are objectively sin, compromised to the level of sin.

01:12:43.120 But there are other things that are not compromised.

01:12:45.200 It's not hypocrisy, but it's shrewd.

01:12:46.880 And it's working with a set of circumstances that you actually have.

01:12:50.120 It's working within the context of viability.

01:12:53.700 And so things like this.

01:12:54.700 So if you were maybe invited to meet with the most powerful man in the world, for instance.

01:12:58.260 Yeah, this is hypothetical.

01:12:59.360 Strictly hypothetical.

01:12:59.820 You know, there are people that would be there you disagree with.

01:13:01.500 You wouldn't go because there are false teachers.

01:13:03.060 Yeah, like if Trump invited you to come and tell him, the most powerful man in the world, how he could best legislate and advocate for the prospering of Christians, and you say, well, you know, I'm not going to go because you invited some other people there that I, you know, I think have bad theology and they shouldn't be there.

01:13:27.260 That's, this is why, I'll say this, this is why the reform can't have nice things.

01:13:32.540 Right. 0.98

01:13:33.060 You know, it's like, the Reformed tradition, that's my conviction, the Reformed tradition.

01:13:38.920 I am Reformed, but the Reformed camp, there's a difference between the Reformed tradition and

01:13:45.340 the modern, current Reformed people. And yeah, like, I mean, it's a bummer, but like, things

01:13:54.360 like that happen. And you know what? Like, guys with good theology who are in our broader camp,

01:14:01.620 um maybe that's a high likelihood i don't even i'm hesitant to even say it but like

01:14:07.000 high likelihood that uh they may not even get that opportunity again because

01:14:10.860 why why would trump give that opportunity if the one time it's given you know you have posts going

01:14:17.100 viral that are you know that are mocking people that trump has appointed and that trump likes

01:14:22.740 should trump have appointed these people no we disagree with his you know his faith advisory

01:14:28.160 But, yeah, there's a way of saying, no, I have my convictions, and yet I'm also going to take this opportunity.

01:14:36.000 I'm going to take the ingredients that God has providentially given to me, and I'm going to build as much as I can.

01:14:44.080 I'm going to work with what we got.

01:14:46.280 I'm going to get to work, and I'm not going to allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

01:14:52.160 Joel, I think of all of your gifts and abilities, your ability to come up with hypotheticals that would never, ever happen.

01:14:57.820 on the spot absolutely top notch which for the listener that that did happen straight great guy

01:15:03.540 visited the white house a lot of people gave him grief for it a great yeah one of our guys a reformed

01:15:08.300 guy who loves the lord and has a good political sense got invited to the white house and and it's

01:15:15.080 not a bunch of screaming screeching leftist it's it's the reformed camp immediately comes out and

01:15:22.060 is retweeting and posts are going you know semi-viral um giving him you know rebuking him

01:15:30.180 publicly rebuking him some of the posts borderline mocking him um saying what's funny how could you

01:15:36.460 be there because paula white you know and it's like none of us agree with paula white of course

01:15:40.640 we don't and neither does the individual who is invited but um but if if you want to ensure

01:15:46.580 if you want to ensure that no reformed man will ever be get granted the ability to be within a

01:15:53.560 500 foot radius of donald trump again that's how you do it that's a good way to do it it's funny

01:15:58.840 how anti-reformed it is like we're reformed we're from have you read john calvin reformers john

01:16:04.240 calvin's address to the catholic king of france right how magnumoniously respectful he is may

01:16:10.440 god establish your throne righteousness and equity to a roman catholic king yeah and he's a protestant

01:16:15.380 being persecuted and respectfully and submissively with adulation oh king please lend your here to

01:16:22.920 our cause yeah that's what the reformers were like not whatever this is today right um speaking of

01:16:29.400 older beliefs uh jordan so we're glad that katie faust we are she did a great job and one day i

01:16:35.980 hope that um that that that won't have to happen that you have enough men in that space yeah um

01:16:42.760 And here's the irony, that you wouldn't have to have a Katie Faust, but also that you get

01:16:47.800 to the point where you also wouldn't have to have a Dave Rubin.

01:16:49.900 Right.

01:16:50.340 And to be frank, I don't think we have to have a Dave Rubin.

01:16:53.320 Right.

01:16:53.720 But that's the argument that's always, it's like, well, there's so few, so we'll take

01:16:58.800 this, that, and the other.

01:17:00.460 And so we're just, that's the principle that we're espousing is saying, yeah, there's an

01:17:05.660 ideal, don't lose sight of it.

01:17:07.160 Here's the conviction.

01:17:08.080 This is what we're working for.

01:17:09.100 And I think you should, you don't have to say it every single episode, but from time to time, you should remind people, this is the ideal that we're working towards, and here's the biblical conviction and why.

01:17:21.200 And then, at the same time, say, and these are the pieces that we have today, and let's work.

01:17:26.300 Yep.

01:17:29.460 Wes, you mentioned the Magisterial Reformers, and Jordan Peterson is actually going to stumble upon, or at least reiterate, a belief that's quite old.

01:17:39.100 um and actually kind of shocking to our modern sensibilities so uh nate let's roll the next clip

01:17:43.660 as they talk about what actually is the essence of womanhood because even brief maternal deprivation

01:17:49.500 we know based on those rat studies can permanently alter the structure of a child's brain so like

01:17:55.660 when we start tinkering with the maternal child bond because some adults are sad or maybe they

01:18:04.300 have an identity that leads them to a place where they do not have an egg or a womb between them

01:18:09.100 So then we're going to just bypass and ignore everything that we know about the nature of the human child and maternal deprivation and the harms that go along with maternal loss.

01:18:18.560 Maybe also everything that we know about the mother.

01:18:21.540 Like, you described yourself earlier as an evangelical Christian.

01:18:25.400 And I've spent a lot of time looking at the imagery of Mary, right?

01:18:30.280 If you think Mary is the archetypal female, you can make that case. 0.80

01:18:34.920 That's a reasonable case to make. 0.96

01:18:36.560 But the thing about Mary is that Mary isn't an individual. Mary is mother and infant. And I think that the human female nervous system is actually adapted to the mother-infant dyad and not to the best interests of the mother, because women are differentially sensitive to negative emotion, which makes them suffer more.

01:19:01.440 And so you have to ask why. And one answer to that, and it's not the only answer, but one answer, and I'm sure at least it's partly true, is that women sacrifice their own emotional stability and happiness to be there as alarm systems for their infants. 0.73

01:19:18.120 and that's how tightly wired they are together and so it it could easily be that the proper 0.58

01:19:23.220 image of woman in for a penny and in for a pound let's say the proper image of woman

01:19:28.480 isn't individual woman the way it is individual man it's woman plus infant and that now agree

01:19:36.300 you agree with that do you yeah okay i agree i mean

01:19:39.700 it's actually a pretty old idea like even the paintings of the madonna um which is not madonna

01:19:47.260 of the pop stars, the Virgin Mary with her son, Christ, so they refer to that as the

01:19:52.860 Madonna, that was one of the points that was being made in a lot of those paintings, is

01:19:58.440 that woman is, and Mary was, Mary and child, and I think it's actually somewhat insightful

01:20:05.740 that Peterson says the essence of woman is not the same as essence of man, where man

01:20:09.940 is on his own, it is woman and child, right, that is her nature, is to deliver and give

01:20:16.800 birth and when you separate child from mother you're you're damaging the the image and the 0.55

01:20:23.560 essence of what a child is and what a mother is that's the same thing with a paeda the sculpture

01:20:29.380 by michelangelo that's right it's mary holding and this would be the crucified that's right

01:20:32.780 beholding him like a child eternally bound to him because she gave birth to him and mourning and i

01:20:37.640 mean these are the icons and the statues and the images and we have a problem with images

01:20:41.380 but i mean through the middle ages that they conceived of and there's a theme because remember

01:20:45.560 paul in romans he says present your bodies a living sacrifice holy and acceptable it's

01:20:50.160 interesting because both woman and man will sacrifice their bodies so the woman sacrifices

01:20:54.320 it in for one uh it's for the service of her husband he helped me for him and in the child

01:20:59.660 so she gives away her strength her health her energy it really is given to the child she gets

01:21:05.440 stretch marks and gains and loses weight and hormones that child's vitality is coming to

01:21:10.200 direct cost the mother's vitality she's losing sleep she's like her whole body is changing all

01:21:16.780 like it's incredibly men they lay down their lives for one the ultimate that would be security

01:21:22.500 same thing we have the paintings of that what's the father holding back the serpent with his two

01:21:26.660 sons there so the man is the image of strength but he sacrifices that too for physical protection

01:21:31.900 and in providing like you look at any blue-collar worker and you can say like well she has to

01:21:37.380 she gives up the right to her body in marriage and the right to her body in childbirth it's like

01:21:41.260 no no we've seen what he's doing every day too so both of them have to give up their bodies

01:21:45.440 because the call of god and the gospel is to take your bodies and present them as living sacrifices

01:21:50.580 to be consumed not to be preserved as statutes and glass and marble look how magnificent it is

01:21:56.500 this is you know a body that's never seen a child or this is a man's body that's never seen a day

01:22:00.880 of hard work right no both of them sacrificed given up and exhausted laid in the ground and

01:22:05.500 then raised imperishable yeah i mean it's it's so like what paul said in first timothy 2 that women

01:22:12.140 will be saved through childbearing and the essential function of a woman and obviously

01:22:18.160 you've said before joel there's there's women who are um infertile or you know all of those 0.98

01:22:24.280 things are true but the essential function tell us of a woman is to be attached to a child to give 0.99

01:22:29.660 life to give birth to bring that new life into the world and it's it's really like among all the 1.00

01:22:36.940 million things that feminism has done to destroy western society one of them is it's the one of

01:22:42.880 the most essential and core damages it's done is convinced women that they are that they are not

01:22:47.780 women serving the function of women and as soon as you've convinced a woman that it's not her telos

01:22:54.820 to give and nurture life, 0.87

01:22:58.400 then some of the more extremes like transgenderism 0.99

01:23:01.940 are actually a very small step away from that

01:23:04.280 because you've already convinced women 0.73

01:23:06.000 that they're not women

01:23:07.180 as the telos of women calls them to be.

01:23:11.100 We have one more clip in this segment. 0.91

01:23:13.460 And so we're gonna roll that.

01:23:15.280 And then we're gonna be wrapping up

01:23:16.600 the discussion here after that.

01:23:18.660 And you know, Dave Rubin said this

01:23:20.060 in your conversation with him too,

01:23:21.440 that his husband, David, is very nurturing

01:23:23.960 and very empathetic.

01:23:25.440 Yes, which is true.

01:23:26.120 And that he's going, yeah, sure.

01:23:28.640 Well, you know, one of the other categories

01:23:32.400 of children whose stories we try to catalog

01:23:34.920 at Them Before Us is children with same-sex parents.

01:23:38.000 Our website, thembeforeus.com,

01:23:40.280 probably has the largest story bank

01:23:42.400 of kids with LGBT parents.

01:23:44.480 And for a while, I had a very active group chat

01:23:46.720 of kids with two moms or two dads

01:23:48.600 who could just talk amongst themselves.

01:23:50.540 Because I'll tell you,

01:23:51.200 if there's one demographic in this country

01:23:52.740 that's truly in the closet, it's kids with same-sex parents who desperately miss their

01:23:59.440 mother or father, but cannot say that out loud because they are accused of being bigots and

01:24:04.500 homophobes, even by people in their own family. So the place where they can talk to each other

01:24:08.860 is sort of in these anonymous spaces. And there were a lot of those kids who would openly admit,

01:24:14.020 I mean, most of them had two moms. There was only one that had two dads at one point,

01:24:18.380 and they didn't, they didn't stay too long. But many of them would say, look, I had a femme mom 1.00

01:24:23.700 and I had a butch mom. I mean, those words, their words, not mine. You know, the butch mom worked

01:24:29.520 on cars, shaved her head, was stockier. And the femme mom, longer hair, kind of slim, worked in 1.00

01:24:37.240 the kitchen. And I asked them, I said, did any of those butch moms meet your need for a father? 1.00

01:24:44.160 And they're like, no, she was my butch mom. 0.95

01:24:47.200 And I loved her, I appreciated her, I respected her, 0.77

01:24:50.020 but I craved male love.

01:24:52.560 So this is not the kind of thing

01:24:54.160 where a man can put on sort of a feminine presence.

01:24:58.420 Kids actually want, crave, need, deserve,

01:25:01.120 and have a right to their mother and their father.

01:25:04.300 They don't want somebody that acts masculine

01:25:06.280 or acts feminine, at least from the kids that I know.

01:25:08.660 And obviously I probably have a slanted sampling

01:25:12.680 because the kids that are coming to me, many of which are going to come after this interview, too.

01:25:18.060 We get tons of letters and testimonies from kids who cannot say this kind of thing out loud anywhere else.

01:25:26.160 Yeah, and just the idea that we, like, it was almost as quickly as surrogacy started rising

01:25:35.880 and as gay, quote-unquote, marriage became legalized

01:25:41.000 that we started hearing, it doesn't matter. 0.67

01:25:44.660 A kid can have two dads, two moms.

01:25:47.960 They're going to still fulfill kind of the same traditional masculine or feminine role.

01:25:52.840 One's going to be nurturing.

01:25:54.080 One's going to push the boundaries. 1.00

01:25:56.080 And the fact that two lesbians, one's a little more masculine, 1.00

01:26:00.500 one's a little more feminine, like we were told immediately.

01:26:04.500 I mean, I don't even remember any discussion about that in the larger society.

01:26:09.420 Yeah, that's just as good as your actual biological father and your actual biological mother.

01:26:15.840 And among all the things that we have to stop and think about with surrogacy, that is an

01:26:20.520 important thing that just gets glossed completely over, that a mom is not a dad and the dad

01:26:25.420 is not a mom and they cannot be replaced.

01:26:27.700 And to think about the children who, like, Joel, I won't presume to speak for you, but

01:26:32.900 I would imagine growing up, if you're an adopted child, it would be difficult to say to your

01:26:38.940 adoptive parents, I love you, but I also have, you know, a sort of hole where the biological

01:26:46.960 parent would have been. And so then that's just an understandable sentiment. But to take a child

01:26:54.480 who is actually just a virtue signal

01:26:57.440 and is expected to extol and love

01:27:01.500 and promote the idea of same-sex marriage

01:27:05.000 as the greatest thing since sliced bread,

01:27:07.280 and then to tell that child you cannot express

01:27:09.720 the reality of the pain and the hurt and the loss that you have.

01:27:13.440 Because if you do, it's not just insensitive,

01:27:18.180 it's actually immoral and wicked for you to feel

01:27:21.440 or to say those sorts of things out loud.

01:27:23.820 I mean, of all the dynamics that she's talking about, that is a terrible, terrible thing to do to a child.

01:27:29.760 I was reliably informed.

01:27:30.880 This was just caring what two adults do in the privacy of their bedroom.

01:27:34.000 I was right.

01:27:34.540 Why would you care about that?

01:27:35.820 Why would that impact society?

01:27:36.940 What does this have to do with you?

01:27:38.320 What does it have to do with society?

01:27:39.660 It's just two consensual adults in the privacy of their bedroom.

01:27:42.560 But no, we're talking about children and then those children and all the decisions and the consequences that they make,

01:27:50.020 the ramifications, the ripples that come from this.

01:27:53.820 Yeah. Eventually we're going to have to pay the piper and the cost is going to be severe. And, and all this, you know, it's, I think it all, it all, I mean, different expressions and certainly like they're not all the same. There's distinct expressions. But, but the root underneath all of it is, is again, just this war on nature that everything is interchangeable like this. I mean, this gets down to, you know, nations too.

01:28:20.760 it's like well you know like i mean if the birth rate in america drops or whatever you know we can

01:28:25.660 just we can just have you know immigration and you know different people can come in and they're

01:28:30.500 interchanging and they'll you know as long as as long as you know we're selective and try to be

01:28:34.500 careful and this is conservatives you know like as long as we're careful and like yeah we've had

01:28:37.860 too much immigration but we went overboard a little bit you know but uh but immigration is

01:28:42.760 really good and as long as we're maybe just a little bit more selective about it um you know

01:28:47.000 Or like, you know, it's the old expression where they say, well, immigration is awesome.

01:28:52.780 Illegal immigration, that's the problem. 0.90

01:28:54.760 You know, and so it's like, and we can just replace Americans. 1.00

01:28:58.240 We can replace the founding stock of this country with anyone. 0.90

01:29:04.440 You know, it can be Pakistanis, it can be Indians, it can be, you know, whatever. 0.96

01:29:08.180 And every, you know, the people are just interchangeable.

01:29:10.400 It's the same concept.

01:29:11.660 That's what I'm trying to drive home. 0.96

01:29:13.200 That you can just replace a mother with a second father. 0.62

01:29:15.760 you can just replace a father with a second mother you could replace the biological mother

01:29:20.140 with an adoptive mother and you can you know and you can replace an american with you know h1b you 0.89

01:29:25.780 know indian you can replace this you can replace we're talking about people you can't replace

01:29:30.780 people you can't and stories from adopted chinese children that were in america they said i felt

01:29:37.120 like i was not at home right like always lived there adopted brought over very young life they

01:29:42.200 don't even you're american and they're literally like no i feel like a deep aching of like this

01:29:46.660 doesn't feel like home i've visited and gone back i want to live there i was taken away yeah i was

01:29:52.120 taken away um yeah and so yeah people are not widgets we are playing mr potato head right with

01:29:59.920 everything yeah the thing about mr potato head is you it renders absurdities and you laugh because

01:30:05.820 it's a child's toy right but we are rendering absurdities in real time in real life we won't

01:30:11.200 laugh yeah and we live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension yeah that's what we're

01:30:15.420 doing with technology all these people are going to grow up one day and they're going to be furious

01:30:20.820 and um well that's the young men that already are supremely right-wing because they've endured for

01:30:25.660 the last 10 years being told there is nothing wrong with love is love and nothing wrong with

01:30:31.640 two men adopting a kid and they hate it and they're about to burn the system down because they

01:30:36.100 say it's disgusting right yeah yeah yeah all right we do have a couple super chats none of

01:30:42.300 them were really questions but we still just want to acknowledge that they came in and thank you so

01:30:47.120 bjj wins again um super chat 499 thanks very much uh bjj very generous of you he says don't forget

01:30:54.480 embryo attrition the process where the vast majority of embryos die in the dish before

01:30:59.160 implantation or testing or freezing and yes we i think we mentioned that after you made that

01:31:03.680 comment yep granddad farms thanks very much great to see you again always good to see you in the

01:31:08.400 chat super chat 499 he just says ga ga it is a good afternoon it's friday it's friday yeah

01:31:14.360 anything else to add jill yeah um just for the listener like some of you guys uh you may not be

01:31:20.300 aware right now but you might find out a little bit later but just to let you know we are aware

01:31:23.940 that um and and for the record we you know we've known that this is coming for quite some time but

01:31:30.160 accusers. We have been alerted that accusers of the brethren are doing what accusers of the

01:31:34.740 brethren tend to do. Accusers got to accuse, Joel. Accusers got to, they got to accuse. And so we're

01:31:39.620 coming up, we've, you know, even for our church, you know, I didn't want to, you know, handle a lot

01:31:44.660 of this publicly, at least not preemptively, but for our church, you know, in the pastoral, local

01:31:49.440 context, we let people know that as we're coming up on our Crisis King Conference, you know, there

01:31:53.880 are many enemies that we've made along the way that absolutely hate me, hate our ministry, want

01:31:59.320 to see it, uh, destroyed. And so, um, so anyway, so, uh, some of that has just now surfaced,

01:32:05.680 um, publicly online and I have a full response and I've actually had it prepared for quite a long

01:32:11.880 time. Um, and I'm not going to drop it. Um, I'm just going to wait because, uh, because I can,

01:32:20.480 because God is good. He's sovereign. Uh, he's reigning supreme over everything.

01:32:27.260 And when my enemies say jump, no, no.

01:32:34.300 So everyone who needs to know knows.

01:32:37.940 Every member of our congregation has a full, thorough understanding, written, and has known.

01:32:47.520 And eventually, the public, because there are many of you who are actually good faith followers,

01:32:52.140 who appreciate this ministry, care about me, care about my family,

01:32:55.020 um are planning on coming to the conference all these kinds of things and so that's great and so

01:32:59.660 um you deserve an answer and so we will give a thorough public answer but um but it's okay

01:33:07.460 i think a lot of times people um you know people just you know they'll see uh you know with cancel

01:33:14.080 culture or whatever it may be and they're like like oh my gosh you know like what are you gonna

01:33:17.980 do or you know we gotta we gotta get together we gotta you know get a response right away we

01:33:21.700 got to do this and it's a you actually don't you actually don't um you can rest in uh the grace of

01:33:29.600 god his forgiveness his sovereignty um especially when it comes to things that are dug up from the

01:33:35.980 past things that have been dealt with things that have been confessed and things that have been

01:33:40.200 forgiven um our ministry applies all of christ to all of life we deal a lot with culture with

01:33:47.300 politics, with, you know, surrogacy, you know, things like, you know, what we're talking about

01:33:52.000 today. But first and foremost, we are a Christian ministry. And so, one of the prerequisites for that

01:34:00.480 is that we believe the gospel. And we don't just believe the gospel for others, but we believe it

01:34:05.920 for ourselves. We believe that Christ took our sin, it was buried with Him, and nailed to the

01:34:14.800 cross atoned for in full. And so, um, for those of you again, who are, uh, faithful supporters,

01:34:22.200 um, good faith listeners have been, uh, been in our court, uh, been, uh, defending us from various

01:34:29.440 attacks from your anti-Semitic, your misogynist, your racist, all the, you know, all the ad nauseum

01:34:36.380 usual kinds of attacks that are levied against us. Uh, we just want to say thank you so much.

01:34:41.680 Thank you for following us, for supporting us, for giving towards this ministry, for

01:34:46.480 your emails of encouragement, your prayers, all these things.

01:34:50.580 We pray that it will continue.

01:34:51.800 And for you, you deserve a response.

01:34:54.160 And so you will get one.

01:34:55.560 We'll probably put it out tomorrow morning.

01:34:58.160 That's been our plan.

01:34:58.940 I've talked to my elders, talked to my deacons, and they stood by me 100%.

01:35:04.020 And in fact, they actually, in some sense, felt this more strongly than I did, insisted

01:35:09.700 and said, yeah, as soon as, you know, we know it's coming. And as soon as it comes, feel free

01:35:15.280 to not do anything. Feel free to just relax. Michael's one of the elders at our church. He was

01:35:20.660 like, no, you don't have to jump just because your enemies say jump. And so we will give a response

01:35:28.440 though, especially for those of you who are supporters and followers of this ministry. So

01:35:33.660 if you've seen anything brewing online, there's my response for now. We're not going to do a

01:35:39.620 video on it. This will be the last that you hear from us over the weekend. We'll come back with

01:35:44.840 our regular schedule on Monday. For those of you who are new to the channel, it's Monday, Wednesday

01:35:49.420 and Friday at 3 p.m. Central Time. The live stream is three times a week. And then as soon as we pick

01:35:55.320 up with April, the first Friday of April, we will resume our Friday special, kicking it off with

01:36:01.620 season two with Dr. Stephen Wolf on all things Christian nationalism. And then with the incident

01:36:06.960 that i was just addressing um we're yeah we're just um we're not we're not going to do a full

01:36:12.820 episode i have a written response and that's probably all we'll say we're doing a great

01:36:16.400 episode on monday yeah oh dude monday this monday's going to be a baller episode and um

01:36:22.260 i hate to put pressure on nathan but it's it the topic kind of demands i won't set the bar too high

01:36:29.700 but let's just say it's got to be the best one we've ever done the most epic the most epic cold

01:36:34.240 open that's ever been done in the history of he's going home at five today he's packing everything

01:36:37.800 up having dinner no you're staying here yeah you're editing all weekend what can can we tease

01:36:43.080 a little bit what's the title of the video is the state must reform the church oh people are not

01:36:49.160 gonna like must reform the church but i think there's a biblical and historical argument for

01:36:53.360 it yeah you'll have to tune in okay so we'll see you uh lord willing on monday at 3 p.m central

01:36:58.460 time make sure to go to church uh this lord's day thanks for all of your support all of your prayers

01:37:04.080 all of your generosity. You can give to this ministry by going to rightresponseministries.com

01:37:11.240 forward slash donate if you'd like to. And then again, make sure to join our gold member Patreon

01:37:17.360 by going to patreon.com forward slash rightresponseministries. For those of you who are

01:37:22.540 not able in person to make it to our Crisis King Conference, which is coming up in just a few short

01:37:27.640 weeks, by joining us on Patreon as a gold member, you'll be able to live stream it. And I think

01:37:32.800 you'll be blessed. All right.

The NXR Podcast - March 21, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - The Madness and Immorality of Surrogacy

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