The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - The Power Of Propaganda

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00:00:26.800 The topic of today's episode is the power of propaganda. We're going to be looking at

00:00:32.620 modern recent examples like Sidney Sweeney and the DHS. We'll also be looking at more historic

00:00:39.040 examples, propaganda put forward by the communists and the Marxists, and looking at what Plato has

00:00:44.180 to say and what Machiavelli has to say. But first, I'd be remiss if I didn't address the firestorm

00:00:49.960 over the last 48 hours. This is our first time broadcasting since Wednesday, and this story

00:00:55.300 broke after our broadcast on Wednesdays when we were alerted to it. We have aired over the last

00:01:00.500 month, if you've been following this channel, two advertisements for two different companies,

00:01:05.780 both under the same LLC and headed up by the same individual. I want to start by saying this,

00:01:11.380 that individual, we have followed up with him. It took a moment to do, you know, follow up and get

00:01:15.740 his story and hear these things and ask these questions. He is a Christian man and he has

00:01:20.260 defrauded no one and he will defraud no one. Okay. So that's the first thing that nobody has been 0.92

00:01:26.120 stolen from. However, what he presented in these ads, here's the problem. It was using present

00:01:32.440 language for something that was future oriented, a hope, right? An aim, a goal at best. So to use

00:01:41.160 language like our educators, right? A school was one of these companies. Our educators are being

00:01:47.540 paid blank. They earn blank. Well, no, the educators don't earn that because the educators

00:01:52.900 don't exist. There are no educators. Now, here's the bottom line, and I'll leave it here. We'll

00:01:57.500 move on. These ads were read to the public by yours truly. So at the end of the day, yes,

00:02:04.520 this guy is a Christian man. It wasn't a complete stranger. We knew him. That's why we felt

00:02:08.040 comfortable doing it. But here's the point. We used present language, the language that was sent

00:02:13.340 to us, but I used it. I used it. I gave the ultimate, you know, check mark and signed off

00:02:19.100 to use present language for something that was future oriented. And in that sense, objectively,

00:02:24.520 it's not true. It's not true to use present language for something that presently doesn't

00:02:29.780 exist. And so we're going to be far more careful moving forward in the vetting process for our

00:02:35.540 advertisers, for anyone who was offended or caught off guard or disappointed. We apologize

00:02:40.560 for anybody who is worried or concerned, rest assured, there's been no financial fraud and

00:02:47.460 none of that is going to happen. This is genuinely a Christian man who I don't want to unnecessarily,

00:02:52.100 more than necessary, throw under the bus. He is a Christian man with good intentions. He wants to

00:02:57.780 do something for the kingdom of God, but he presented something with too much ambition

00:03:01.820 that said it as though it was something now, and it's simply not. And I ultimately made the decision

00:03:08.360 to read that on the air so for that i apologize please forgive me and now let's go ahead and dive

00:03:14.200 into our show all right ga we are back some would say so back uh real quick i just realized in the

00:03:30.600 cold open i did not mention what the two companies were so for your reference point there's nothing

00:03:34.400 to hide here so let me be specific it was covenant matches and saint john's academy again covenant

00:03:40.040 matches and saint john's academy this individual has taken the websites down for both of those

00:03:45.620 companies they are a registered llc one is a dba under you know in conjunction with the one same

00:03:51.460 llc but the websites have been removed and he's obviously you know he's discouraged and and you

00:03:57.740 know and i get it and so he's going to rethink his inks and maybe someday in the future do something

00:04:02.060 again the right way and present it, you know, as present when it's present or if it's future,

00:04:07.480 make that very, you know, abundantly clear. But those websites are down. No one has been

00:04:13.020 defrauded, but that's the name of the two companies, Covenant Matches and St. John's

00:04:17.340 Academy. And so we will no longer, of course, be running those ads. Okay, so here's our episode

00:04:21.580 for today. Antonio, you're going to kick it off. Yeah, I think what we're talking about today is

00:04:26.880 really interesting, especially as you consider, you know, the shift that we've seen with the

00:04:32.620 Trump administration and specifically DHS, I think, has become really notable with some of

00:04:37.440 the tweets, the base tweets that we've seen from that X account. But essentially, we're talking

00:04:42.140 about propaganda. And I think propaganda, you know, historically is thought of as something

00:04:47.920 that's intentionally deceitful. And I think if you look historically at what propaganda has been,

00:04:55.100 both in sort of the 20th century characterized by, you know, the World War II. So you could

00:04:59.760 think of like the Soviet era, the revolution that we see in Russia, but also in America and

00:05:04.420 Rosie the Riveter and what you see in the thumbnail. You have sort of that conception

00:05:08.780 of propaganda, but propaganda actually going all the way back into the ancient times. And I think

00:05:13.460 propaganda, as if you look historically, is probably better defined as ideal, the ideal,

00:05:19.580 and the popular imagination.

00:05:23.360 And so if you think about, you know,

00:05:25.180 the workers' revolution in Soviet Russia,

00:05:27.340 what that looks like is,

00:05:28.820 well, this is what life could be like

00:05:30.800 under a communist government.

00:05:32.760 This isn't necessarily what it is like now.

00:05:35.200 And so you find, you know,

00:05:36.740 this kind of propaganda is really powerful

00:05:38.860 in capturing myth and what people strive for,

00:05:43.080 how they shape their culture around truths,

00:05:46.260 so on and so forth.

00:05:47.140 um and then we look at some recent examples and we can look we can talk about you know the american

00:05:52.140 eagle ad which just in the last week or so has really um you know a lot of people noticed it

00:05:57.520 or heard about it to be honest yeah yeah right it's become like a really a cultural fire point

00:06:02.320 um and uh a lot of people are kind of confused by that i've actually seen we're both wearing

00:06:07.000 good jeans today that's right we're wearing some uh yeah great jeans great jeans yeah

00:06:11.620 I think my jeans are a little bit better than yours, Antonio.

00:06:16.540 Yeah, I've got some hybridization going on in the fabric.

00:06:21.740 There's literally like, I don't know if people can see it on the camera,

00:06:23.660 but there's a little bit of a rip there.

00:06:24.840 That's kind of why you're saying it.

00:06:26.340 Yeah, so all that to say, like this American Eagle ad has become a big topic.

00:06:34.780 A lot of people are confused why.

00:06:36.180 You know, you've got people on the left and, you know,

00:06:39.380 they're claiming that it's fascist.

00:06:40.920 And then people on the right are like, no, it's just like a return to some kind of like prototypical American like ad of the 2000s.

00:06:47.920 Woke is dead. America is back.

00:06:49.520 Right. We're so back.

00:06:50.100 Yeah.

00:06:50.620 And we'll look at an example.

00:06:51.700 I think we have a Ram ad lined up that was ran on the 4th of July and it was all about, you know, not apologizing about being American.

00:06:58.900 And so you feel this zeitgeist kind of shifting and trying to put your thumb on it is really trying to – it's difficult to do.

00:07:05.720 But really what we're talking about is propaganda and momentum that shifts back and forth in the culture, both in music, in the arts, in the media, about what is our founding myth, right?

00:07:18.020 And I'll just, you know, you look at Rome, you look at Greece, any major civilization in the past has had a founding myth.

00:07:24.880 yeah and uh that myth is always i mean in rome's time it was we were founded by these two people

00:07:30.420 and um and now everyone in greece it was everyone born of the of this earth is of a you know a

00:07:36.320 specific classification and they they've come from the ground so on and so forth and even us here in

00:07:41.100 america we have that we have those founding myths about who we are and we see the tug the push and

00:07:46.560 pull happening in culture and right now i think we feel the momentum and so we we'll talk about

00:07:51.540 that and we can open it up to what exactly propaganda is. How do you win the battle of

00:07:56.880 propaganda? And then we can also talk about a little bit of the Christian duty, I think,

00:08:01.920 to see through the veil a little bit. So it's not necessarily that you want to avoid propaganda,

00:08:06.680 but you want to be able to see the world as it is. You want to know that it's propaganda.

00:08:11.860 Exactly. When you say avoid propaganda, you do want to avoid it insofar as being able to discern

00:08:16.820 what is propaganda and what's not. When you say you don't want to avoid it, I think what Antonio

00:08:20.620 was saying is um in terms of the uh the utilization of propaganda it's a powerful tool

00:08:25.700 and it actually can be used in ethical ways towards good ends but you need to be aware of

00:08:32.380 what it is yeah yeah yeah it's not well it's not if you have propaganda i guess it's kind of the

00:08:37.100 point we remember during the peak of woke 2015 to 2020 or so i mean you literally had ads fat

00:08:43.060 is beautiful if they weren't saying that implicitly with who they chose to model

00:08:47.340 calvin klein american eagle sometimes it was literally just being blasted out there fat is

00:08:53.100 beautiful but it's not as though we had an era of propaganda and now all of that's gone away and

00:08:57.480 now we're just back to advertising jeans now the the message is not fat is beautiful that was a

00:09:02.560 bad message right that was but it turns out i don't know i might be the most negative one here 0.96

00:09:06.180 even on the shift but now the message is uh being a whore is not a bad thing right like uh okay well 0.77

00:09:11.380 so all right you're not the most negative i want to be clear i'm sometimes we disagree i'm with 0.94

00:09:16.620 you on this one okay you're you're not you're i'm west and i'm to the right of everyone you know

00:09:22.060 like you've never met someone like no i i agree with you on this one i'm just negative on a lot

00:09:27.040 of this propaganda like dhs for example we get into it and we'll get into america's back no no

00:09:32.880 we're not no like whoredom instead of fat people and we see our friends guys who we respect they're 0.78

00:09:38.320 great guys but we see some of our friends and they're like reposting you know the videos and

00:09:42.220 it's like well joel why aren't you reposting it you know like we're so back isn't it what you want

00:09:45.680 like DHS quoting scripture isn't this the Christian nationalism like well I think of

00:09:51.680 Martin Luther we said the imperative of the gospel as it pertains to the cobbler the guy who makes

00:09:56.320 shoes is not that he makes Christian shoes in the sense that John 3 16 is written on the bottom

00:10:00.660 of the tongue but but he does make Christian shoes but by making Christian shoes what that

00:10:05.340 first and foremost means is he makes good shoes so I actually don't think it's Christian to use

00:10:10.440 bible verses um for deportations but not provide the deportations you see what i'm saying so i'm 0.61

00:10:17.860 all for dhs like the videos i love it yeah what i don't love is that they're not doing it they're

00:10:23.620 not doing it give me 10 million deportations lest i die give me 50 million um and now let's play

00:10:30.380 this ad for people to see if you have the tissues ready if you need them for uh maybe a little bit

00:10:34.660 of a teary eye.

00:10:35.460 This is good.

00:10:35.800 This land is your land.

00:10:40.060 This land is my land.

00:10:43.760 From California to the New York Island.

00:10:51.100 From the Redwood Forest to the Gulf Stream waters.

00:10:58.300 this land was made for you and me

00:11:05.020 so what do we not like about this the big thing that i don't like for one you mentioned uh

00:11:14.580 deportations practically we're at i would estimate based on other sources i've seen i

00:11:19.160 know practically as far as physical deportations i'm not leaving yes you are self-deport that's

00:11:23.760 different but yeah i'll get to self-deport in a minute i think we're at about probably a hundred

00:11:27.640 thousand is that right antonio yeah i think i think the estimate i looked at was something like

00:11:31.280 150 000 ish so and you've got people entertaining which in detention which is kind of that

00:11:37.220 intermediate that's about 50 something thousand yep and a big part of that has been the judges

00:11:40.520 so just to be clear this is not necessarily i think trump wants to do it practically

00:11:44.260 the judges have said no and he said yes sir you said no i won't do it so practically you have

00:11:49.220 about 150 000 deportations or about an eighth of the administrations of this administration of the

00:11:54.960 way through remember in 2028 we are going to have midterms and practically if we lose the house

00:12:00.620 more funding more measures more strict border stuff uh getting the executive orders orders

00:12:06.640 codified that's probably not likely to happen so you got about 150 000 active deportations not great

00:12:12.080 now we got funding with a big beautiful bill we'll see what happens maybe another six to seven

00:12:17.260 hundred thousand self-deportations individuals that were here illegally they saw the rhetoric

00:12:21.720 and they said i just i might as well go home now it's not looking good for me i'm gonna get out

00:12:26.580 we could get a stephen colbert self-deportation we could that would be great we've got some good

00:12:30.480 celebrities out but practically that's about a million right i mean the platform was mass

00:12:36.100 deportations right and the other subtle thing i want to draw your attention to was uh at the very

00:12:40.740 end you saw a woman mounted as border patrol uh so it's you have the helicopters you have the

00:12:45.620 soldiers and the imagery one of the final images was uh there's just a woman there as border patrol

00:12:50.060 like our borders being protected by the great men and women of the border patrol by 125 pounds

00:12:56.120 by 125 pound woman well actually no i'm not actually aiming for our border to be protected

00:13:01.440 by this and it's i get it it's a small point to cool to quibble with but practically speaking

00:13:06.220 you're saying all these things you're using bible verses you're putting together these emotionally

00:13:09.980 stirring montages to stir the people but it's not actually being channeled into the actual change

00:13:15.420 that you want to happen and then what happens is people see that and they're like america's back

00:13:19.640 and we did it it got what i voted for lull you it's like no i didn't vote for a commercial i

00:13:25.300 actually voted for deportation we have quite literally not gotten take away the propaganda

00:13:29.980 and give me the things that i wanted yeah instead of acting as though you're right and then that way

00:13:34.200 propaganda is kind of like a double-edged sword because it can either it can actually inspire it

00:13:39.560 can inspire people to write action or it can appease and it can lull people to sleep right

00:13:44.780 and you have to that's where you have to be cognizant of like you know the the kind of

00:13:48.540 propaganda that is being served to you and whether you'll accept it that's where it becomes dangerous

00:13:52.840 because so there's propaganda from the left and that's dangerous because it convinces people that

00:13:57.140 these things that are vices are virtues okay but there's actually a danger a serious danger from

00:14:01.800 the right uh because from the right what it does is propaganda that says a lot of things that we

00:14:07.540 would support uh the danger there is it convinces people that we don't need to push anymore because

00:14:12.420 it's happening when it's not. No, we actually still need to be pushing. And I can't help but

00:14:19.140 think of just the parable where Jesus talks about two sons with a father, and the father asks them

00:14:23.000 both to come and work in the field. And one says, oh, you betcha, dad. I love you, dad. I'll be

00:14:27.320 there, dad. And he doesn't show up. And the other guy says, sorry, dad, I'm too busy. I can't do it.

00:14:31.260 And he does show up. And Jesus says, which one has done what's right? And of course, if there

00:14:36.360 was a third guy, which there's not, but hypothetically, if there was a third guy in the

00:14:39.380 parable who said yes and did it that would be the ideal right so jesus isn't saying uh that the

00:14:44.880 second guy who says no but still shows up that that's the best the ideal the ideal is both in

00:14:50.520 word and deed to obey the father right so both in word and deed that's the ideal but jesus does

00:14:56.480 explicitly say in this parable right this is that well this is the obvious implication uh because

00:15:02.160 he asks he turns to his opponents which one did right and then he says he affirms them um the

00:15:06.740 second one is who did better and and in other words uh what's better the idea is to say yes

00:15:12.080 and show up um but given the choice between only two options to say no and not do it right so yes

00:15:18.740 in word but no indeed or no in word and yes indeed if those are the only two options better

00:15:24.880 to do it with actions than to merely say it with words right so that's jesus own teaching through

00:15:31.360 his parable uh but and and that directly applies to what we're talking about is you have the yes

00:15:36.380 in word right here's the commercial but the no currently as it currently rests indeed it's not

00:15:44.100 being done yeah yeah and then we should so let's look at the the next ad i think the next ad is a

00:15:49.640 different sort of characterization of poor propaganda on the right which is the appeasement

00:15:55.200 it's kind of what we'll see this uh this ad that was ran on the fourth of july or the fourth of

00:16:00.260 July weekend from Ram, which essentially is this appeal to this pseudo conservative, you know,

00:16:05.200 American patriotic vision that is sort of boomer and neocon. You can imagine, you know, this is

00:16:12.820 the kind of stuff that many people at like NASCAR races and things like that are like celebrating

00:16:18.400 and championing as like, that's what it means to be American. And of course you see the roots

00:16:22.280 are grounded. So let's take, or ungrounded, I should say, let's take a look at this ad here.

00:16:25.840 Americans we can do anything we want except one thing we just can't stop being American

00:16:37.000 because since that revolution they said we'd lose we just couldn't choose to stop being American

00:16:43.000 we put Hemi V8s back on the strip and pack eight layers in a seven layer dip we're body slams and

00:16:48.580 blue suede shoes rock and roll jazz and blues rock and mullets and rap pack suits even our

00:16:53.740 Grandmas have tattoos.

00:16:55.400 We're NASCAR, rock stars, rodeo, monster trucks,

00:16:58.520 and power boats.

00:16:59.620 Welcome to our epic show.

00:17:01.640 Keep winning on Sunday, move horsepower Monday,

00:17:04.380 shake the earth and carve terrain.

00:17:06.220 Rock the anthem like Kenny Wayne.

00:17:08.220 So get out there, take your swings,

00:17:10.300 burn rubber after the American dream.

00:17:12.420 Rev your engines and let freedom ring.

00:17:15.420 And never, ever, ever stop being American.

00:17:18.900 nothing stops america and nothing stops ram

00:17:24.860 real quick first thing i want to say that is propaganda but it is good propaganda i have no

00:17:32.000 doubt that that ad was probably a successful ad for them yeah so we're here playing it i mean

00:17:36.420 yeah advertising yeah so we're not we're not just for the record um we're not we're not saying that

00:17:40.540 that propaganda was done poorly it was i mean they nailed it that was but it is propaganda yep

00:17:45.580 go ahead yeah it's just it's you you can see the framing is like very shallow um it's like uh hey

00:17:51.980 let's celebrate being an american you drive a truck you like fireworks you grill apparently 0.99

00:17:58.260 you like uh salsa as well wwf wrestling 250 years ago you told england to suck it you're an american 0.99

00:18:05.520 you're an american yeah so it's boats um boats and hoes you know like it's scantily clad women 0.99

00:18:11.420 so it's literally boats and hoes it's voiced by dana white with ufc right yeah and uh lord knows 0.98

00:18:16.540 there's no shortage of just grandma grandma's tatted up which i'm i'm like that's not american 0.87

00:18:22.920 yeah i'm not the biggest fan of that i'm not the biggest fan yeah and ufc is a big show is the

00:18:26.000 point right yeah so yeah and it wasn't even ufc it was it was like wrestling which is quite little

00:18:31.520 dana white as the president that's what i'm saying it was his voice from ufc and ufc has that same

00:18:37.400 kind of similar appeal i think it's just uh it's very shallow it's like there's no real appeal to

00:18:43.040 sort of um you know ancient you know i wouldn't we wouldn't in america's case we wouldn't say

00:18:47.740 ancient but historic kind of truths about um i mean even if it is it's in passing like the

00:18:54.240 revolution it's like oh you fought like west indicated you fought this war 250 years ago

00:18:58.860 and now um that's you know anyone who's living here and subscribes to these sorts of things

00:19:04.160 and enjoys that they're american but without even saying why like it's like yeah we we um

00:19:08.820 like you're the guys who fought a war and won correct um also uh what what did we fight that

00:19:14.160 war about like we fought that war because um because of pennies were being taxed that we

00:19:21.100 didn't like two percent tax yeah we're like two percent tax with no representation i will die

00:19:25.860 i will die for this today they're like uh 40 tax please govern me harder you know like yeah

00:19:33.000 we're not so it's like so they literally have to change what's american because they have they're

00:19:40.280 trying to build you up and say you're american and but but the reality is that we're not historically

00:19:45.960 our fathers would be ashamed they'd be ashamed of all of us and so then they have to literally

00:19:51.120 change what what does it mean to be american now uh grit resolve conviction courage nope what does 0.96

00:19:57.900 it mean to be american now boats and hoes yeah yep and our guys have to get this culture is 0.91

00:20:03.880 shifting people are done with wokeness as we typically kind of brand it whether that be on 0.96

00:20:08.340 the lgbtq side of things or just kind of this egalitarian idea of beauty and of uh of hierarchy

00:20:15.100 is the big one so that's going away so we're back to people can excel people can be beautiful uh

00:20:20.700 people can do great things some more than others but as we shift away from that what advertisers

00:20:26.020 are going to do and you can't fall for it is they're going to then appeal to that 80 of the

00:20:31.060 country that thinks this way so nothing's changed about their heart nothing about it is uh we're

00:20:35.380 back to the bible we're back to traditional values we went too far it means the common

00:20:39.820 consensus has changed which there is some positive in that and we'll talk about that here in a moment

00:20:45.200 but i got to give a shout out to uh in the chat we have uh titus weller and i just thought it was

00:20:49.620 funny he said it's actually the perfect uh advertisement for ram truck because it perfectly

00:20:53.980 represents who they are uh shallow and extra on the outside the body of the truck but regrettable

00:21:00.220 execution on the inside that's good it's a great ram commercial you know yeah that's funny i was

00:21:06.480 gonna say too the big thing it lacks is courage so as the culture shifts these ads are not making

00:21:11.600 a strong stand right this is not coming out in the middle of 2022 for example when people were

00:21:16.900 getting canned for this for that for just even being a straight male speaking up and having an

00:21:22.040 opinion this is coming out when it's safe to do so right and hey we're glad for the worker it's

00:21:26.260 it's like twilight's coming he rolls in he throws some bales of hay but we just got to recognize

00:21:31.100 this is not the guy these are not the corporations right they were flying pride flags yes happy to do

00:21:36.400 so when that was the thing to do yeah and now a little bit of traditional values are back we took

00:21:41.000 the fat is beautiful a little too far not a problem right american flags are back in and you're buying

00:21:46.440 a 75 000 truck right right so that that's uh vital that very insightful west good job that but that's

00:21:51.900 vital for us to understand corporations are not going to lead the way this is not courage

00:21:55.660 corporations don't have courage um this all this is uh with in the case of corporations much like

00:22:01.400 politicians uh sadly because they actually should have courage but it's licking your fingers sticking

00:22:05.420 in the wind seeing which way the wind is blowing um none of these guys were running these ads in

00:22:09.340 2020 none of these guys were you know at the high water mark of the left um and at that time you had

00:22:15.420 amazon you know blacking out their screen you know to show their solidarity to george floyd and all

00:22:20.120 these kinds of things so this all this says um is but but there is a positive in that here's the

00:22:26.140 positive it says that um the general general consensus of the people not the corporations

00:22:31.140 but the consumer namely the people has shifted to where they the corporations recognized it is not

00:22:37.480 financially um advantageous for us to run a george floyd ad um right right now and and the only reason

00:22:45.680 i want to point that out is for two reasons one to say the consensus of the people which actually

00:22:50.780 does matter is shifting but it has not shifted nearly far enough and that's that's part of what

00:22:55.440 we're getting into secondly though um i do want to say as just a general standard when you when

00:23:01.360 you are thinking of politicians and even more so when you're thinking of the local church and

00:23:05.280 thinking of of church leaders and pastors um uh if your pastor has less courage and i don't think

00:23:14.000 there's any courage but if he somehow is able to produce less courage than dodge ramp right so 0.99

00:23:20.240 here's my point if american eagle and we're going to get into this which is owned by a jew uh j 0.83

00:23:26.160 shot him in skine there it is that's a that's the most jewish name i think i've ever heard it's a

00:23:31.660 pretty big one that's a that's a big jewish name but if if america if if american eagle owned by

00:23:37.200 jews is is willing to run an ad that is being labeled as nazi eugenic about and eugenic about

00:23:44.440 you know white aryan people's genes um and your pastor and your pastor is uh is still uh complaining 0.61

00:23:55.120 about white boy summer my goodness my goodness my goodness my goodness so but but what it says 0.60

00:24:01.980 though is if american eagle is willing to do it it's not because uh the jew who runs american eagle

00:24:08.400 is you know what i've i've reconsidered my ways and uh i actually think that um that there's been

00:24:15.700 a lot of anti-white propaganda and i don't think that that's ethical and right and so we're going

00:24:20.400 to throw no that's that's the jew saying um i i run a business and i want to make money and this

00:24:26.300 is actually financially viable that's how much the overton window has shifted um this is actually

00:24:32.240 financially viable and so that's what we're seeing it's the consensus that's changing right

00:24:36.500 and i would just i'll say this as the last part of the segment this is the time to see when people

00:24:40.420 have courage early on this is those who are probably most courageous is where they're gonna

00:24:45.420 you're gonna see them hey this guy's been saying this now for a while and he was right and people

00:24:49.780 are starting to see that he's right but the more and more and more time goes on i mean probably

00:24:53.900 2035 you know like a christian denomination the lcms will come out and say oh you know what the

00:24:59.020 great great replacement maybe that was real like okay but there was guys 15 years ago paying the

00:25:04.060 price for saying that it's real so it's in these shifts we don't get a lot of them in a lifetime

00:25:07.900 there could only be a couple but in a cultural shift like this look for who is stepping out has

00:25:13.580 been stepping out and saying it early whereas those that are the minute they can tell like ooh

00:25:18.700 salary is about to go down stock price is about to tank i better hop on board those are at least

00:25:24.500 for the time until they come to come to grips with it they are followers they are not leaders

00:25:28.900 individual opportunity pastors corporations great time to get a calculus and that's and that's why

00:25:33.700 it matters like obviously character always matters um but there are like we've talked about this you

00:25:38.700 know concentric circles you know like ripples and and it's not just uh pass or fail it's not just

00:25:44.520 like you're with me or you're totally against me there's i i think it's helpful to describe there's

00:25:49.500 the the brother circle that's the tightest uh and then there's the friend and then there's the

00:25:53.880 co-belligerent and so when we get to some of these outer circles like a co-belligerent like this guy's

00:25:58.040 not going to be an elder in my church this guy might not even qualify to be a member in my church

00:26:02.160 right i'm protestant he's catholic whatever it may be uh but he is a good co-belligerent

00:26:06.480 when you're looking at those things you're not giving your your wholesale endorsement when it

00:26:11.920 comes to co-belligerence that we might partner with over every facet of their character and

00:26:16.360 everything they've ever said and everything they've ever done and every single one of their

00:26:19.180 theological convictions that's not what you're doing but uh as you look for a co-belligerence

00:26:23.520 especially that outer circle when you're looking for co-belligerence one of the biggest things that

00:26:27.900 you should look for is not um perfect unanimity on on every single list item of conviction but

00:26:35.460 what you should look for, I think, is time. Time. And that's why there are certain individuals that

00:26:42.360 I'm willing to look at and say, okay, I disagree on this and this and this and this. There's plenty

00:26:48.240 of disagreements. But the reason why this individual catches my attention is because

00:26:54.080 this individual was saying these things when there was a steep price to saying them. And so

00:27:01.260 that doesn't necessarily mean brother circle elder in my church godfather of my children but in terms

00:27:07.060 of co-belligerent circle that actually should be considered yeah okay let's go to our first

00:27:11.880 commercial and we will be right back hello brothers in christ let me ask you something real

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00:29:40.360 so the all right the big firestorm uh that we put it in the thumbnail and it's worth talking about

00:29:47.980 because everything everyone's talking about it and uh lord knows we always have something to say

00:29:51.540 are you talking about the ads that we ran uh yes it's an advertisement are you talking about in

00:29:57.080 the real world beyond the reform bubble beyond i mean just about every news every news outlet so 0.91

00:30:02.600 american eagle and we're not going to show up because it's perverse it's because it's trash 0.95

00:30:06.420 and it's slop it's slop but american eagle ran a ad with actress sydney sweetie i think is that's 0.97

00:30:12.640 the right way to pronounce her name i want to say sweeney todd which is is embarrassing for no one

00:30:17.900 except for myself because it means uh number one you can't get her name right and you just reveal

00:30:22.580 that you like musicals and i and i do and people tell me more embarrassing the boys are telling me

00:30:27.660 in the chat you know they're like common common web and l yeah you like musicals but i do i like

00:30:32.940 them so sydney sweetie for anyone not familiar is uh she's an american actress blonde uh beautiful

00:30:37.520 woman she's been a number of movies i think and really honestly like she just has leaned into

00:30:42.600 using sex appeal like practically speaking live in the real world in the real world sex sells and

00:30:47.520 that's what she's leaned into so she's kind of viewed as a many ways a sex icon and American

00:30:52.820 Eagle did an advertisement with her and the part of it that got everyone up in arms was a type of

00:30:58.340 narration that went something like genetics determine eye color height skin color etc and

00:31:04.440 then she said something to the effect of and my genes are blue and the obvious riff there is I

00:31:09.240 have great genetics like she looks good because she has great genetics that's just practically a

00:31:14.780 big part of it. And so American Eagle just, again, she's a white woman, blonde haired, blue eyes,

00:31:20.260 and the ad itself is lusting over her. And a lot of, there's a lot of celebration in some sense of

00:31:26.240 woke is dead. Here we go. We're celebrating hierarchy. Some are more beautiful than others.

00:31:30.840 We're celebrating genetics that some people just inherently have differences that are real and

00:31:34.880 measurable. And you have an American Eagle. I mean, this is kind of a classic Americana brand.

00:31:39.340 yeah american eagle leaning into it uh jay schottenstein is the the ceo i that name i'll

00:31:46.020 let you uh i'll let you just sort that one out early life yeah just hit the early life on that

00:31:50.840 yeah um is the ceo and of course ceo in a company this big with an ad an ad campaign that this big

00:31:56.900 he's certainly involved in the approval everything that goes on to it and so you had two sides to it

00:32:01.480 and you had certainly the one side that said this is eugenics this is fascism and then another side

00:32:06.540 that was, no, here it is. Woke is finally dead. And this happens a lot, right? Democrats are

00:32:11.740 Republican. Which one are you? Well, kind of practically, if we're looking at them, neither.

00:32:17.000 There's actually a third way, not to be gay, but believe it or not, here's the real answer. It's 0.87

00:32:21.320 not, oh, woke is dead and America is back. We're celebrating beauty again. On one side, you have

00:32:26.680 this kind of this artificial against nature sin that's being promoted. Fat is beautiful. No, if

00:32:32.080 you're obese, you will live, you will not live as long. Your quality of life will not be as good.

00:32:36.060 that's not true but then here's the other thing uh being a whore is a good thing well hang on 0.99

00:32:41.380 that's actually not true either and so what you have kind of posited is well this is gone so now 0.96

00:32:46.100 the true alternative is here and this is the power of propaganda it's supposed to look good uh lust

00:32:52.460 is in many ways it is a sin as peter would say common to man it doesn't have to you don't have

00:32:57.720 to do these huge you know backflips and acrobatics like how is it that men are attracted to attractive

00:33:03.500 women. This is a sin and it is a sin that is common to man. And so propaganda comes in and

00:33:08.220 says, hey, this normal thing that everyone experiences, this is a go. Wink, wink, nod,

00:33:14.840 nod. But it's not. That is not actually alternative. We want neither whoredom,

00:33:19.160 perversion in the public square, all of this normal, normalizing lust or normalizing ugliness. 1.00

00:33:26.220 That's not moral either. And so you have to take a look at both of them and say, actually,

00:33:29.740 this propaganda is playing up a dichotomy that doesn't exist because i'm opting out and choosing

00:33:34.240 the third option yeah yeah yeah propaganda is um the story that people tell themselves about who

00:33:42.180 they are where they come from who they are where they're going um and so it is it could be the case

00:33:47.240 that there are many different wrong directions actually for people to go and um you know one ad

00:33:52.820 that is a little bit more in alignment with i think nature and you could say that it's sort of

00:33:58.060 momentum is more natural still doesn't mean that that's the that's the proper direction of

00:34:04.500 the people right and so you know you think about what what myths what propaganda is it's sitting

00:34:11.140 in the right direction i heard someone say that once and it was a fan favorite everybody loved it

00:34:16.520 so we'll just use that language again okay in the right direction yeah which for the record means

00:34:20.840 there are sins which accord with nature while still being sins and there are sins which

00:34:25.420 disaccord with nature romans 1 men exchanging natural relations and being in flight it's it's

00:34:33.200 a basic biblical premise but uh people lost their minds go yeah and of course there's a sense in

00:34:37.460 which we're trying we strive for the supernatural right heaven coming on earth which is but which

00:34:43.260 is more in alignment with natural but isn't necessarily the natural um uh but anyway it's

00:34:48.820 going back to you know what propaganda is we you know we we can think about what the ancients

00:34:53.280 thought of it and so i've looked at plato and how he discussed in the republic what what the noble

00:34:58.140 quote-unquote noble lie was um and you talk about propaganda as both and as you think about it as a

00:35:04.260 story it's both truth and a lie at the same time myth for example is both truth and a lie at the

00:35:10.340 same time there are truths contained in it which are actually the point that the myth is um espouses

00:35:15.680 but also you're weaving you're telling a story about aeneas for example in the roman context

00:35:21.040 and um and that's not necessarily factual and so uh propaganda gets into this it's it operates in

00:35:27.200 a weird space so to speak and so i did want to point out i think one of the most notable

00:35:31.380 uh sort of examples of of propaganda is the noble lie so i wanted to pull up this quote if we could

00:35:38.220 from from plato and i'll read it um i don't think we actually have it back there so you'll have to

00:35:43.420 read it off oh yeah sure or i can read it right here yeah go ahead read it all right so this is

00:35:46.420 from plato the republic 414b how could we contrive one of those noble lies we were talking about a

00:35:52.460 moment ago one of those necessary falsehoods of which we spoke we want some single grand lie

00:35:58.240 which will be believed by everybody including the rulers if possible but failing that the rest of

00:36:03.680 the city yeah so so it's super interesting in the republic for those who haven't read it you know

00:36:08.380 Plato frames up kind of the ideal city, right?

00:36:14.280 The Calipolis, which contains both rulers,

00:36:17.880 it contains guardians,

00:36:19.040 and these are the young people,

00:36:20.680 the disciplined, self-controlled young men.

00:36:25.340 And then you have the sort of everybody else,

00:36:27.340 which is the laborers, the farmers, so on and so forth.

00:36:30.420 And what's interesting,

00:36:31.900 we talk about the noble eye

00:36:33.100 and how it's developed in the Republic

00:36:35.420 is it's actually something that ought to be believed

00:36:37.780 up and down the chain. So even the rulers themselves, it should be desired that they

00:36:43.680 believe the myth, the noble lie, the propaganda. And the reason that that's important, according

00:36:49.920 to Plato through Socrates, is because otherwise rulers become cynical and they become abusive.

00:36:56.620 In other words, if I'm playing a game or I'm the coach and I have all of my team playing a game

00:37:05.080 that I actually think is silly I actually don't think it you know I have no stake in it in other

00:37:10.360 words I'm more likely to abuse it and and use it for self-gain and so to prevent from the selfishness

00:37:17.080 and the abuse of rulers rulers ought to buy into the propaganda and so that's that's a point that

00:37:22.040 that's made through Plato I also wanted to read a quote here from Machiavelli so this is Machiavelli

00:37:27.500 let me just say two on Plato go ahead his his position on especially like music and arts and

00:37:32.740 all of those it's much more complex as you're alluding to than simply a good bad binary but

00:37:37.480 he's saying they're going to do something like if read him on music for example again and again he

00:37:41.880 references the power of music but not as a bad thing so he's not saying there's music and it

00:37:46.000 stirs heart and he even says like the change in music it's powerful enough to make laws but he

00:37:50.680 says practically it's then which music are you going to play we've used the axiom many times

00:37:55.020 it's not whether but which what music are you going to play what propaganda are you going to

00:37:59.180 broadcast. You're going to have one or the other. And it's just kind of cool. Even that far back,

00:38:03.220 Plato's kind of recognizing, hey, there's no way around it, but beware, it's powerful.

00:38:08.060 Yep. Yep. And you could even, I've seen people make arguments about, you know, even there being

00:38:12.740 such a categories like holy propaganda and the way that the church is engaged in beauty. For

00:38:17.680 example, you look at the Catholic church and making these beautiful sort of elaborate buildings,

00:38:23.920 this architecture, these paintings, so on and so forth, as a form of propaganda to inspire

00:38:28.480 the man to the ideals. And so even those kinds of things, it's unavoidable. Everyone's going to be

00:38:37.520 doing it at all times. And so you're going to, to some extent, have to subscribe to it. What you

00:38:42.540 need to be able to decipher is whether or not the ideals are actually Christian, whether or not

00:38:48.140 they're actually good. And it can be incredibly murky at times. And so if we could look at this

00:38:53.380 quote here, we pull up a quote from Machiavelli. So this is Machiavelli's discourses on Livy.

00:38:58.600 Machiavelli, of course, was an Italian political thinker and statesman. And he says this,

00:39:03.620 if someone who desires or who wishes to reform a state in a city, wishes it to be accepted and

00:39:09.580 capable of being maintained to the satisfaction of everyone, he is under the necessity of retaining

00:39:15.000 at least the shadow of its ancient modes so that it may not appear to the peoples to have changed

00:39:20.400 its order even in the fact uh that even in if in fact the new orders are altogether alien to the

00:39:27.200 past ones that's america that's yeah precisely so um you talk about how a nation changes and

00:39:33.380 and very much the american life today is unrecognizable from the american life in the

00:39:37.700 mid 19th century and it is propaganda ultimately that kind of binds us to the path the past in

00:39:44.540 other words which is not just american life but it's like i would say a quintessential example

00:39:50.540 as it pertains um our country and and meeting that that quote from machadeli is uh the the

00:39:58.640 notion that we're a constitutional republic like when people speak of the constitution i i mean

00:40:03.500 look no further that's the best example that i could present is when people say like well we

00:40:08.060 still you know we still have the constitution and and it's like like yeah we we have a document

00:40:14.400 and people can go and visit it in a museum but there's a like christopher caldwell you know did

00:40:20.940 a good job you know in the uh the age of entitlement where he talked about like but we

00:40:25.300 have a de facto constitution we no longer use the constitution like the civil rights act and

00:40:29.520 then other things beyond that have all come and sat on top of the of the constitution and they are

00:40:34.900 for all intents and purposes the effect of constitution is no longer the original

00:40:39.460 constitution but we assuage our you know our fears by you know telling ourselves this noble lie that

00:40:46.600 like but we're still you know a constitutional republic and when it's like that hasn't been true

00:40:51.380 for decades i have to think too to a degree uh the church is in the mainline for example i mean

00:40:55.860 you think about the greatest break with historic christianity and that would be protestant mainline

00:40:59.960 denominations, Episcopalian church, the progressive Presbyterian side of things. But one of the

00:41:06.300 things they have going for them is that they typically occupy land that they've owned for

00:41:10.500 hundreds of years. And so you have them very radically disconnected from their historic

00:41:15.120 Christian past. However, they are able to present by owning old land, by owning old buildings,

00:41:20.580 by being established in the center of the city, that no, we are the normative Christian experience.

00:41:25.880 And it's not anything to do with the substance. It's certainly not the pride flags. It's certainly

00:41:29.020 not the women that occupy the pulpit, but they're able to put forward a veneer. We are the historical 0.99

00:41:34.000 Christian tradition. And then you have guys, you have like our church, very much so connected to

00:41:38.940 the Protestant reformers, very much so connected to all these stages of the past, the early church

00:41:43.980 fathers, the middle ages, all the way through. We're connected to all of that, but practically

00:41:48.240 just our building is not the same. And so in its field, it can be difficult to try to convince

00:41:52.940 people, no, we're actually carrying the flame forward. We are the sons of this movement,

00:41:57.160 but practically the external trappings of it are very deceptive to someone that's just very

00:42:02.220 surface level and just taking a glance that's and that's like that would be the true church

00:42:06.620 yep that's protestantism as a whole and then to get even you know more narrow more specifically

00:42:11.040 focused uh that same principle is alive and well within you know reformed protestants and i you

00:42:16.700 know i always feel bad for like stephen wolf i think is a great example where you have all these

00:42:21.760 guys that have the trappings of we're historic we're within the reformed tradition you know

00:42:26.860 we're just carrying the torch uh forward and holding to calvin and holding to this guy and

00:42:31.880 that guy and whereas like stephen wolf presents literally the i mean the reformed political

00:42:38.300 position yeah right the political philosophy from the reformers and people are like this is crazy

00:42:45.200 this is extreme this is novel this is um and and he just just sits there and just cites you know

00:42:51.940 reformer after reformer after reformer after reformer to no avail and they're like we're

00:42:56.440 going to do a study committee to see if this is reformed um are you going to uh do the reading

00:43:02.480 no are there any anybody who agree with steven wolf on the committee to to represent that side

00:43:08.460 no um it's just it's a joke it's it's pretending it's just it's the skin suit we've talked about

00:43:14.920 like so christianity as a whole it's liberalism and a christian skin suit but it's not historic 0.94

00:43:19.180 christianity protestantism getting a little bit more narrow it's the blue-haired you know lesbian

00:43:23.620 feminist um but who has still putting on the clerical ropes you know and still has uh the

00:43:29.380 candles and the stained glass windows and this old historic building and like oh we have a picture

00:43:33.880 going around it's john knox presbyterian church dot knox was the author of a trumpet trumpet blast

00:43:39.440 against the monstrous regiment of woman women and on the sign it literally says reverend i forget

00:43:43.860 her name john knox presbyterian church pastored by it's incredible that's incredible yep yeah so

00:43:50.900 It's happening at every level, right?

00:43:52.840 Yeah, like as you were talking, I was thinking like, you know, famously, I think that I don't know if it wasn't the State of the Union.

00:43:58.420 But do you remember Joe Biden?

00:44:00.260 He did that speech.

00:44:01.720 Maybe it was on the campaign where it was like the lighting was like.

00:44:05.420 Oh, it was at City Hall, I think.

00:44:06.860 Yeah, City Hall in Philadelphia.

00:44:08.980 And it was kind of like a Freudian slip of propaganda, which was like and that's how people would interpret it.

00:44:16.200 Like, oh, this is actually during the height of COVID and the vaccination thing.

00:44:19.200 Yeah.

00:44:19.300 so it's dark red and dark and totalitarian and yeah um and like even that kind of things uh those

00:44:26.280 kinds of thing you know in terms of propaganda being bi-directional is really what i want to say

00:44:30.920 which is to say that it's not simply top down as we would think of it like 1984 george orwell

00:44:36.340 you're told to believe something but it's also bottoms up in the sense that you know in one sense

00:44:41.380 the zeitgeist that you talked about the consensus joel uh kind of informs the elite in terms of

00:44:47.920 where where the wind is blowing and what where they should uh hitch their cart so to speak right

00:44:52.700 um but it also the people interpret top-down propaganda and when propaganda is not it not

00:45:00.240 in accordance with a lot the real lives of people right where it's where it's propaganda look at

00:45:04.960 america flourishing look how clean our cities are look out and it's like well i live in downtown

00:45:10.040 minneapolis and it's it's terrible here you're called a prayer every morning yeah exactly so

00:45:15.860 christian prayer no abrahamic

00:45:20.560 that doesn't hit as hard in this in this dispensation yeah yeah um so so all that to

00:45:27.720 say that propaganda is uh is is interpreted and so i think there's various points in which uh

00:45:34.260 you know we and we should talk about like what are the ways that you can actually crack propaganda

00:45:39.180 like you get an ad like the this american eagle ad and you know people to your left and right 0.99

00:45:44.720 are you know fighting about it and you're sitting here like wait this is like this is really stupid 0.91

00:45:49.720 on both both accounts how do you talk to the person on your right and who's celebrating this 0.89

00:45:53.940 oh this is uh this is we're back you know this is great momentum like how do you how do you crack

00:45:59.460 the propaganda and how do you do that as a christian not just somebody who's right wing but

00:46:03.640 but a christian on the right where you you're holding in balance both uh reality but also

00:46:09.580 christian hope it's not christian to black pill all the time yeah it's also not christian to be

00:46:14.740 delusional right so like and so that's something that we constantly have to wrestle with is like

00:46:19.800 we've got good christian brothers that we love that we've partnered with you know and and would

00:46:24.420 continue to partner with you know if they were willing they may not be willing but if they were

00:46:28.420 willing we would um and and and yet we just disagree not on fundamental uh theological points

00:46:34.340 but in terms of you know some of the the more political and cultural things that are happening

00:46:38.800 now um they they would be more of the persuasion of we're so back you know um america's back baby

00:46:44.780 you know and we would you know say that are are we like it doesn't feel like we're back but then

00:46:50.580 we also have to you know to check our own hearts and um okay we're not back but do i believe do i

00:46:57.360 at least believe that um by the grace of god that we could be do i believe that there's at least

00:47:03.060 still hope right and i and i think that's like a tightrope that um that the discerning christian

00:47:08.520 has to be able to walk is on the one hand um not being delusional uh delusional and falling for

00:47:14.760 the propaganda and being willing to admit like um no we we don't have anywhere near the deportations

00:47:21.220 that we were promised and so like we need to be able to say on the one hand we need to be able to

00:47:25.180 share the meme and say uh you know donald trump you know with uh with you know the the pawn shop

00:47:30.300 you know like hey can i get uh 30 million deportations uh best i can do is anti-semitism

00:47:35.480 laws and uh and keeping under wraps the epstein files like that's where we are right now yeah

00:47:40.500 that is where we are and so we like if anybody who can't say that is being delusional um on the

00:47:46.260 other hand anyone who who is there's a there's a fine line i've noticed this with some guys where

00:47:51.840 um you're not just being realistic but you actually now are it you can tell like when a

00:47:57.960 starts rooting for the black pill it's actually it's actually like he's hoping because it's become

00:48:03.920 his whole shtick right so like we've we have pivoted um and and started you know calling out

00:48:10.080 some stuff with the trump administration and some of our concerns about jd vance and the you know

00:48:15.080 the tech right and peter thiel and these kinds of things and we're going to keep doing that

00:48:18.280 at the same time though i'm not rooting for them like i don't want what i'm what i'm currently

00:48:25.340 discerning and what i think is going on what i think is going to happen i don't want to be right

00:48:30.440 i don't want to be right and so as a christian man i want to always hold that intention holding

00:48:36.960 the tension between the two of like we're going to tell you what's really going on and you know

00:48:40.620 what it's actually pretty bleak it's not really we're so back yeah at the same time we believe

00:48:45.520 in the spirit of god it's not by might nor by power but by my spirit says the lord god sometimes

00:48:50.100 takes forever to do something suddenly you have no idea what god is capable of doing he's stronger

00:48:55.020 than the tech lords he's stronger than this he's stronger than that so number one good things are

00:49:00.520 possible we have hope and um and the bad things we'll share them as they're happening we'll share

00:49:05.820 some of our predictions what we think will happen and when we share these predictions um if they are

00:49:10.960 despairing if they are negative um they are predictions in in the frame of of reality uh but

00:49:17.760 in the frame of christian hope we're hoping to be wrong we're hoping the lord is merciful and proves

00:49:23.160 us wrong yeah and if he does we'll be the first guy to come out and say we are in fact so back

00:49:29.520 and we thought that this was going to happen we weren't wrong in terms of thinking that that was

00:49:34.320 a possibility this is why we thought it and and blah blah blah blah blah but by golly uh the lord

00:49:39.980 was gracious he was kind and this happened instead we're so bad yeah we're happy for it all right

00:49:45.100 let's go to our last commercial break and we will be right back america is a country that was founded

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00:52:57.580 all right cool i did want to add just a practical note here we've got some great super chats we'll

00:53:04.340 get to. Practically, you, especially speaking to young men, the way you carry yourself is

00:53:09.520 propaganda. So there's propaganda that's advertising. It's blared out to millions of

00:53:13.200 people. There's propaganda online. There's propaganda in media. There's propaganda in

00:53:16.580 print. But you yourself, in many ways, the way you carry yourself, too, to make this practical,

00:53:21.380 like we're all wearing suits, for instance. We're wearing suits and collared shirts because men in

00:53:25.240 the past that had important things to say that were men that were studied dressed themselves

00:53:29.240 in a certain way. If it's Tuesday, you're going out to Walmart. You're wearing sweatpants. You're

00:53:33.540 wearing crocs you have no watch on you are at some level and i'm being a little bit facetious

00:53:38.340 and over playing it but practically speaking hey i dress in sweatpants aka i have no one important

00:53:43.120 to see i'm not wearing a watch because it doesn't really matter when i go there because the time i

00:53:48.240 have nowhere to go because of the time crocs um well i if you have kids are you carrying are you

00:53:54.580 able to chase them down i saw a video where someone literally snatched a toddler just right

00:53:58.420 out of a shopping cart seat so practically am I ready how about grooming do I comb my hair take

00:54:04.780 care of my beard even practically there's propaganda at the high level but the way you

00:54:09.240 carry yourself if you want to move up and it's hard out there as far as jobs vocation getting

00:54:14.500 ahead the very small ways that you carry yourself they send a message you will send a message with

00:54:20.380 the way you stand you will send a message with the way you talk and you most certainly send a

00:54:25.800 message. Portray yourself. Come off a certain way in the way you dress. You can't avoid it.

00:54:31.160 It's not as though, well, I could dress neutrally and it'll give off no impression, or I could dress

00:54:34.920 well, or I could dress badly. You are always going to be, at some level, getting across to people,

00:54:41.440 this is the type of person I am. This is how self-disciplined I am. This is how reliable I am.

00:54:46.820 And so to kind of wrap it all up at the very end, sure there's propaganda that's working on us,

00:54:52.320 propaganda that's coming in but also think about and what am i showing to the world in terms of

00:54:57.340 what i present to it i think it's always good especially for young men you're a young man i

00:55:01.980 want to move up i want to make more money i want to great make good connections i want to network

00:55:06.120 how are you presenting yourself that is a great place to start yeah propaganda is like quintessential

00:55:12.580 fake it till you make it or larping right it's a little all of that is sort of propaganda and i've

00:55:18.380 said for a couple years now you know because everybody gives such a hard time to larping and

00:55:22.540 you know and i've said again and again you got a larp before you can fly yeah like at a certain

00:55:28.320 level that a lot of it i think depends on um it depends on trajectory and it depends on intent

00:55:34.260 on motive um it's one thing to be you know trad cath or something like that um with no intention

00:55:41.260 to actually you know as a woman to actually um you know uh submit to your husband respect his

00:55:47.900 authority um have several children raise them in the fear and admonition of the lord like it's one

00:55:53.480 thing if it's just like i'm gonna wear the sundress and i'm gonna you know bake the sourdough

00:55:57.920 um but but you know in in my rhetoric and in my relationship with my husband i'm gonna be as much

00:56:04.100 of a feminist as as anyone has ever been um that's different than someone else uh wearing the sundress

00:56:10.100 and making the sourdough and and it's not an end in itself as just a facade but it's actually the

00:56:16.220 stepping stones of trying to get somewhere where they know they should be and and there's an

00:56:20.600 admittance of like no i'm i am not um i am not the woman that my great-grandmother was

00:56:27.300 but i but i want to be and and so i'm working toward that yeah i'm working toward it so it's

00:56:32.580 like you know got like christian nationalism like oh they're larping you know this is a joke

00:56:36.800 yeah well like we do not currently have christian nationalism you know established in these united

00:56:42.620 states of course not nobody thinks that we do um but but what we're saying is but we'd like to

00:56:48.880 we'd like to and so we're going to talk about it and and then behind the scenes we are working

00:56:54.180 with individuals who are working toward it politically and this that and the other

00:56:57.240 so there's a difference in larping for the sake of larping versus i'm going to larp before i fly

00:57:02.000 and sometimes it's difficult to distinguish you know the difference unless you know the person

00:57:06.380 personally or the person happens to be you but there is a difference nonetheless yep okay i want

00:57:12.220 dress for the job you want not the job you have yeah there's a truth to it that's larping but

00:57:16.620 larping with good intent yeah you're actually trying to achieve something i think that's that's

00:57:21.760 the distinguishing factor is am i trying to achieve something or am i just pretend am i am i am i putting

00:57:28.540 forward a front um and as an end in itself simply to pretend or am i putting forward a front so that

00:57:37.120 i can actually obtain what this represents and doing that too is an ascent to the propaganda of

00:57:43.280 the age right like you dress like the the thing like the men that you've been told you should

00:57:49.620 dress like when you want a particular job yeah and so you kind of have to buy a little bit

00:57:53.760 the propaganda which is like oh i need nice shoes i need a particular kind of jacket like all of

00:57:59.220 these things are going to be it is out baggy fit right all of these things are going to be kind of

00:58:03.600 told to you and you have to have the christian discernment to know when or when and when not you

00:58:08.720 should us you know and acquiesce to that yep yep yeah you're right cool we'll hit the super chats

00:58:14.260 i'll start with this first one okay mine eyes have seen the glory reference to a yankee hymn

00:58:19.360 it's good uh the kind of the lord it is a good name but the hymn is not it's about a sherman's

00:58:25.420 march to the sea i think he basically decimated big portions of the south and it's kind of like

00:58:30.620 this religious imagery hymn that it's like the lord is marching on and executing vengeance

00:58:34.920 upon the like 99 christian south wow so not great love the name in isolation greater context

00:58:42.720 so all right super chat ten dollars thank you so much uh he or she said this um speaking of

00:58:48.920 propaganda candace owens and tucker carlson were on today trying to discredit nick fuentes we saw

00:58:53.520 that i support america first but needs more protestant influences would be great to see him

00:58:58.400 on the show uh as far as the protestant influences people don't get it like as far as protestant

00:59:03.540 versus catholic and it's funny me and antonio a mutual friend will argue about this with but if

00:59:07.560 things continue as they are 10 15 20 years like you're going to see catholics taking a large

00:59:13.840 proportion of christianity in america like practically speaking as far as protestants

00:59:18.120 we've already mentioned the main lines those are huge denominations with millions of people

00:59:21.840 millions if not billions in land and in buildings that are fully liberal so as the culture swings

00:59:28.100 away and wants nothing to do with it uh many protestants big denomination protest uh big

00:59:33.680 protestant denominations smaller one if they don't kind of come to the times and realize hey

00:59:39.280 you're young men they're to your right but a lot of them are good men they need guidance they need

00:59:43.340 discipleship they're going to leave and they're going to go to catholicism and they're going to

00:59:47.360 be bigger and we're going to be like how did this happen well for 15 years we were telling you not

00:59:52.180 to kick young men out of your church for having right-wing views right and you did that and they

00:59:56.500 all went to catholicism and now they're bigger yeah and part of it also is is the propaganda

01:00:01.700 actually that the catholic churches uh puts out that protestant church just can't as a consequence

01:00:07.640 i think primarily being fragmented and it's hard to have a unitary message um when you're so

01:00:13.900 fragmented but but i think you know the vibes if you will the propaganda that um that that people

01:00:20.320 feel from catholicism and its appeal to tradition and its appeal to beauty so on and so forth

01:00:24.860 is a big is a big reason um so of course we're protestant we disagree with catholics on the

01:00:31.060 merit but we recognize that it's not men aren't convinced on the merry i mean the merit not on 0.64

01:00:36.900 the merry but on the merit on both yeah um you know we believe in in the merit but of course

01:00:44.500 we recognize that um it's not simply rational arguments that convince people it's also a story

01:00:50.140 that you tell us of course what we've talked about in that episode yeah i think a big part of that

01:00:53.540 from my perspective and this is just being descriptive so i'm not even you know giving

01:00:57.840 a comment on whether or not it's you know whether or not it's it's right-headed or wrong-headed

01:01:02.080 but just descriptively speaking catholicism in both directions both both liberal leaning when

01:01:09.880 it comes to political expressions and cultural expressions whether it be left or right

01:01:14.660 catholicism doesn't tend so again not necessarily saying this is a good thing or a bad thing

01:01:20.620 um but it does not tend to police yeah um meaning that uh you can you could be joe biden 0.92

01:01:28.480 full fully giving your consent in full communion yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna murder as many babies as 0.93

01:01:35.040 possible nancy pelosi yep and going and being communed and receiving the eucharist um and you 0.98

01:01:42.000 could also be a groyper and be you know fully supportive of you know positions on the right

01:01:48.640 and same thing so i i do think that um as the overton continues to shift i do think for like

01:01:55.960 a lot of young men they're going to be like well i tried the reformed church and theologically i

01:02:00.000 have far more agreement there um but uh i um you know i held this view on world war ii history or

01:02:09.740 i held it and um and it actually became a mark of my salvation yeah like we saw it wasn't that

01:02:15.980 long ago you know a guy wrote an article um and and it wasn't he wasn't being uh silly like i mean

01:02:22.500 if you didn't know better you would think that it was like a spoof like it was just a joke you know

01:02:26.080 parody uh it was not parody and he was saying that uh he was he was counseling reformed ministers

01:02:32.340 to incorporate as a part of their membership process and their membership interview um to ask

01:02:38.700 young men about their world war ii uh historical views and uh to bar them from membership right

01:02:45.740 if they don't come down hard on the mainline consensus

01:02:51.160 historical views of World War II.

01:02:53.700 So it's like, hey, how come you didn't end up being received

01:02:57.820 as a member in Providence Presbyterian Church?

01:03:01.680 Did you push back on the statement of faith?

01:03:04.520 Did you disagree with the Apostles' Creed?

01:03:06.900 No, I didn't make the cut because I had some critiques

01:03:11.860 of Schindler's List.

01:03:13.760 What?

01:03:14.120 this is real this is real and i'm telling you these young men they're going to be like man i 0.88

01:03:20.900 i love reform theology but reform ministers are the gayest people i've ever met and i just like 0.74

01:03:27.300 i i'm going catholic because i'm not gay like i can't i can't do reformed because i'm not gay 0.90

01:03:32.980 you know and i'm sitting here and i am reformed and and i'm like oh my goodness this sucks i this

01:03:39.340 is it's a tragedy you know to hold these these things as as markers of if someone is in the faith

01:03:47.660 yeah like it that that's just that's never how churches even reformed churches have historically

01:03:54.500 operated it's um okay are are you an adulterer right are you are you it's it's word and deed

01:04:02.000 like do you have a credible profession of faith have you been baptized uh can you affirm the

01:04:07.220 creeds right so the history has to be uh affirmed what is the history of the life death and

01:04:13.020 resurrection of jesus christ right there is a historical requirement for christianity but it's

01:04:17.740 that history um something 2 000 years ago not 80 years ago and and then in addition to that do you

01:04:24.620 have um right guard your life and doctrine so then in your life are you uh living in such a way are

01:04:29.920 you a faithful husband are you a faithful father um those are the kinds of things but as as reformed

01:04:36.860 ministers are adopting extra biblical criteria um and not just for a discipleship class right but

01:04:44.520 for the membership roster then i actually do think and again um i think there's you know the reason

01:04:50.740 why i wanted to start with the example of like joe biden and nancy pelosi is to say i think there

01:04:54.660 are cases where i think the catholic church i'm like how is this person in good standing in the

01:04:58.700 catholic church the catholic church has a position i don't know if they have a position on world war

01:05:03.460 too i haven't looked into the uh the catholics but they but they do have um a position on abortion

01:05:08.720 on the sanctity of life and they're not they're not operating by it yeah you can you can not only

01:05:15.440 can you privately believe that uh that the murder of unborn children is permissible but you can be

01:05:20.660 the highest civil ruler in the land actively working towards it and it's like you're great

01:05:26.860 you are great and so i'm so i'm not even saying that's a good thing because obviously um i think

01:05:31.340 that's a very bad thing. But the point still stands, descriptively speaking. If you have one

01:05:36.800 church that feels old, tried, true, traditional, these kinds of things, as we're in this crazy

01:05:45.240 modernity and people are quickly shifting back to wanting something old, wanting something

01:05:51.920 historic. If you have this older church and it's not going to ask you questions,

01:06:01.340 about whether or not you agree in the 6 million number

01:06:06.880 as a requirement for membership,

01:06:10.000 then you bet you, yeah, I think a lot of young men

01:06:12.660 are going to go over there, and not even for the theology.

01:06:15.760 It's not necessarily they're going over there

01:06:17.300 because they're like, man, I just really, really, really

01:06:22.020 believe that Mary is co-redemptrix.

01:06:25.740 It's not a theological persuasion.

01:06:29.800 i i think in many cases it's just it's old uh the protestant church down the road has smoke

01:06:36.120 machines and laser lights this one is old and then this one also uh wants to ask me do i do i affirm

01:06:43.700 the apostles creed and schindler's list and this one is just asking me about the apostles creed

01:06:49.020 and that right there for those reasons alone a tiktok edit of the latin mass too it's over

01:06:54.860 never stood a chance it's propaganda though yeah yes so what what was the original question on

01:07:00.300 that one oh it was just uh talking about candace tucker carlson oh yeah yeah so i saw that clip

01:07:04.960 going around today influence where tucker and candace were talking about you know is is nick

01:07:10.180 you know is he a fed or is he a spy or whatever and tucker carlson was saying um no i i don't i

01:07:16.520 don't know like i like tucker carlson so and i don't know it's hard i'm not omniscient but so

01:07:20.680 i can just go off of his words but in terms of his words he was saying well nick you know said

01:07:24.600 my dad was in the cei and i said that that was a lie and then my dad died and it turns out nick was

01:07:29.120 right and even you know even tucker carlson said this guy has like native talent like this guy is

01:07:34.360 just inherently talented very gifted and uh charismatic and he admitted he was like how in

01:07:40.220 the world does this kid from chicago know more about my dad than i do you know at least in this

01:07:46.140 regard on this topic so tucker is is acknowledging the dude's talented and he's not lying he's not

01:07:52.540 lying turns out uh he was right his homework i was actually wrong but then they began to speculate

01:07:57.760 on okay but why does nick get in the personal uh what seemed to be personal petty squabbles

01:08:03.800 with some of the guys who other than nick himself are are at least publicly known as as guys on the

01:08:09.940 furthest right within the mainstream discourse as that there currently is like a tucker carlson

01:08:15.520 or candace owens and you can tell and i'm not even saying that they're you know i'm yeah i'm not

01:08:22.180 saying what i'm not saying but i am saying what i am saying and what i am saying is this um you

01:08:26.360 can tell that the beef was not it's not so much in terms of um well he has this objective position

01:08:33.840 that i disagree with it was more so um he said something about me personally he said something

01:08:40.780 about me personally and that's just a whole that's a whole other gambit of tactics strategy um optics

01:08:49.140 you know and those kinds of things um what you know what is the best strategy and how how do you

01:08:54.720 like nick is a smart guy he's made his calculus that's what he thinks works he's gone for it

01:08:59.060 and uh you know i feel like the uh the dodgeball you know gif is a bold move cotton let's see if

01:09:03.920 it plays out you know and we'll see time time will tell but i think the final question there was

01:09:09.580 it'd be great to see him on the show and and we might as well i think that folds into the next

01:09:14.860 one right so resurrection design code we want to read that one and then we can respond to both

01:09:18.940 for you uh resurrection design co super chat twenty dollars thanks so much hey rm been listening

01:09:24.080 to fuentes of late many such cases because he's been right about a lot and is saying what needs

01:09:28.880 to be said he is slandered a lot and i think it would be cool if more people got the chance to

01:09:32.800 hear him speak for himself yeah so that's kind of what i was building up to is okay so what's

01:09:37.060 happening what's the phenomenon here uh because it's it is palpable anybody who says it's not

01:09:41.220 is like you're just not being honest um nick fuentes is making a comeback into um the mainstream

01:09:49.040 uh conversation that doesn't mean that he's like gonna be on cnn anytime you know but he is they

01:09:55.080 play his clips already so it's only a matter of time yeah you're right you're quite literally

01:09:59.320 has been but um what i'm saying is that individual personalities uh may not invite him on the show

01:10:05.440 because of his tactic of calling those guys out by name and there's not many people that he hasn't

01:10:11.040 called out by name so there's not that many platforms left um but you're not going to get

01:10:16.060 rid of them and the reason i think there's a you know so like how do you explain it because i i like

01:10:20.660 to i'm a you know i'm a a student of culture and like what's going on here and it's fascinating

01:10:25.660 you know to to ask these questions so i think one is uh simply um the the age of cancel culture is

01:10:33.260 over all right like the the woke cancel culture kind of thing they had their high watermark and

01:10:38.660 and it's over and a guy like nick the only way that you can really i think successfully get rid

01:10:44.560 of him is um you you have to de-platform him you have to because if he's allowed to speak yeah

01:10:51.960 if he's allowed to speak he's gonna win that doesn't mean he's gonna win everybody there'll

01:10:58.400 be plenty of people listening to this and be like what he's not gonna win he's a fed he's this he's

01:11:02.500 that um well let me say it like this it's not just he's going to win he's winning and and you may

01:11:07.860 just not have admitted it yet and that's perfectly fine you know like you have your reasons whatever

01:11:12.560 and i'm not gonna insinuate you know interior motives for why people might feel that way but

01:11:17.620 but the facts still exist um i i had not listened to anything from nick fuentes once not even a clip

01:11:25.420 nothing until about six months ago and six months ago um i started listening because people that i

01:11:32.600 trust right not just somebody who's you know off in left field but people that i trust started

01:11:37.620 sending me clips and why did they start looking at these clips you know because all of a sudden

01:11:43.340 he's on tiktok and he's on instagram and he's let back on twitter and and the clips go viral

01:11:48.680 on twitter like for a while there is like he couldn't be on any platform he's still not allowed

01:11:53.100 to be on youtube um or at least his personal channel i think he's gone as a guest on other

01:11:57.320 people's channels and and youtube has allowed it um but i think as as the uh suppression of free

01:12:04.940 speech continues to dissipate you're not going to be able to get rid of them you're not and so then

01:12:10.720 you can't just use the tactics of well he said this in this one clip like because now people

01:12:17.480 are going to listen for themselves and so now um that people are listening for themselves like yeah

01:12:23.420 there may be something he said seven years ago that's just like whoa oh my gosh like that's

01:12:28.280 i i don't agree with that i have some massive problems with that i even may find it morally

01:12:33.140 reprehensible um but now he's he's back on the platforms he has a voice again and it's not just

01:12:40.520 uh so like i said two factors one suppression of free speech is lessening greatly number two

01:12:45.960 uh there's three factors actually number two the overton window is moving right things that

01:12:51.340 sounded crazy five years ago sound a lot less crazy today and then the third one is i really

01:12:56.580 do and and again i'm not i'm not watching every show and i don't watch you know everything from

01:13:01.100 anybody um but you know but guys have shown me clips you know some of the recent clips that have

01:13:05.660 gone viral and at least from those i can't speak overall but from those it's quite clear that um

01:13:12.560 not that nick is moving left not that he's changed on his positions but in terms of his optic in

01:13:18.060 terms of his presentation um he's he's not compromising his his you know former views

01:13:25.500 but he is cleaning up i think is and what i mean by that is you know some of the clips where he's

01:13:31.440 like look we want to be a legitimate operation and so we can't say this word anymore you know

01:13:35.700 he's like we're not going to say this word anymore the bar is high but you know because

01:13:38.660 because we because we want to be taken seriously it's clear to me that he now plenty of people

01:13:44.700 would say well if you want to be taken seriously you know maybe don't call tucker carlson a spot

01:13:48.880 you know and maybe so maybe not but but the point is you know you may not think he's taking the

01:13:53.800 steps that you would take to clean up um but but i don't think that any debate can be had that he

01:13:59.240 is taking some steps they may not be all the steps that you would want to see or whatever your

01:14:04.440 requirements would be but he is actively regular it's not just one or two clips it's like every

01:14:09.680 week there's something where he's like i saw one um the other day that someone sent to me where

01:14:13.920 he's like uh you think that you're going to win the west um because you're white you're not your

01:14:19.540 whiteness is not enough it has to be christ you need christ i'm like yeah dude i don't like i

01:14:26.840 don't care who says that i like it right because i'm a christian and i love christ and you know

01:14:31.740 like i think of like jesus when he says to the disciples he's like if they're not against us

01:14:37.020 then they're with us you know and and that's what i mean by these larger categories of

01:14:41.540 there is a co-belligerent category co-belligerent again does not mean um this guy's an elder in my

01:14:46.980 church right right because differences distinctions matter and we're not saying they're insignificant

01:14:51.340 right the distinctions between catholics and protestants like the reason we're divided is

01:14:55.900 because those distinctions are significant but in terms of co-belligerence there is a different

01:15:01.100 calculus when it when it comes to that and i think even jesus acknowledged that by saying whoever's

01:15:06.160 not against us is for us you know so don't don't stop them wherever they're saying the truth paul

01:15:11.840 has the same kind of concept where where he says you know people are like hey you know people are

01:15:16.880 preaching christ while you're in prison paul just to spite you and paul says well regardless of

01:15:23.220 their motives i thank god that christ is being preached yeah like so paul even says even if

01:15:28.400 people are preaching christ sarcastically even if people are preaching christ while not believing

01:15:33.720 in christ sarcastically um even that is a w's in the chat and i don't think i think nick actually

01:15:40.800 believes in christ i don't think he's doing it for she uh facetiously or or sarcastically so i

01:15:46.280 think one is um the the speech suppression has stopped he's back on the platforms two the overton

01:15:53.000 window has moved and three there's all these clips of we're not going to say this anymore because we

01:15:58.400 want to clean up or um being white is not enough you you got to have christ or there was another

01:16:04.180 clip that i saw that somebody sent me where he's like um you want to make a difference and he and

01:16:08.940 and i thought it was insightful he encourages these young he basically essentially said you

01:16:13.260 want to make a difference and i want you to make a difference we need you to make a difference so

01:16:16.500 here's my counsel don't be me you can't afford to be me we can't afford to have everybody on our

01:16:22.600 team unemployed and and and unable to open a bank account don't be me go into your local gop chapter

01:16:28.880 keep your head down be respectful bide your time and eventually you'll be in charge and like

01:16:36.560 encouraging young men to put like i'm just saying that's that is um that may have always been his

01:16:41.460 position because again i i was not watching nick fuentes seven years ago or even seven months ago

01:16:45.700 this is a recent you know i've re he's recently come into my orbit um as other guys in my orbit

01:16:51.100 have shared some things um but i'm just saying that uh that seems at least from the rumors that

01:16:57.540 i heard from years ago that seems like a different calculus um not so much i've i've sold out and

01:17:03.160 i've changed my positions but in terms of tactics there's a difference between positions and

01:17:08.220 disposition and it seems like his disposition is just he's older now right he's 26 he's not 17

01:17:15.000 right that changes a man like he's growing up a little bit cleaning up a little bit plus um he's

01:17:20.620 allowed back on social media platforms and the whole world has moved right with the overton

01:17:26.480 window and just i mean every month it seems like so so my point is he's not going away

01:17:31.800 and anybody who just you know thinks he's going away i i hate to disappoint you but i i don't

01:17:37.060 think that guy's going away anytime soon and one of the biggest things he has on his side here's

01:17:41.060 the last thing i'll say he's 26 here's the thing you like you think like oh he's a joke and blah

01:17:46.920 blah and like oh he's he's irrelevant um there are millions of young men who are following him

01:17:52.380 and you want to win the culture win the hearts of the young men and he has he has young men that he

01:17:57.360 has won like nobody i mean even daryl cooper you know on twitter you know a couple weeks ago

01:18:01.800 said something about nick and and nick said um thank you and immediately you know his comment

01:18:08.000 of thank you on twitter ratio daryl cooper's original post and then daryl cooper took a

01:18:12.380 screenshot of it and shared and he said say what you will about nick uh but the dude has the most

01:18:16.680 committed following ever um it's uh pretty rare for me to get ratioed by a compliment yeah you

01:18:22.080 know yeah and it was like a like a 10x ratio you know like it was it was nothing small so the guy's

01:18:26.580 not going away um he does have um he does have power and influence uh with young men and all

01:18:32.280 these young men you can sit there and say well these young men live in their mother's basements

01:18:35.700 and so um well number one i don't think that's entirely true for those that it is true here's

01:18:39.800 the thing about young men eventually they grow up so these young men may not seem powerful now

01:18:44.920 right now it may just be their anon accounts and sheer numbers and and just volume loud on social

01:18:51.320 media uh but 20 years from now it'd be one thing if nick was you know 75 years old he's 26 so

01:18:57.240 barring an assassination or some kind of tragedy he's got 50 years of potential relevancy and all

01:19:04.660 of his following is pretty much 26 and they've got 50 years like some of these guys will be ceos

01:19:10.940 some of these guys will be politicians some of them already are you know and like and so yeah i

01:19:16.800 think that um you're gonna have to engage with nick in terms of sheer influence position and

01:19:24.280 relevance yeah um that that doesn't mean that you have to some guys will like him some guys won't

01:19:29.820 some guys will be co-belligerent some guys will be brothers some guys will be enemies

01:19:33.980 but you're um the the the the the prior strategy of just just um just close your eyes and don't

01:19:42.320 say his name and maybe people will forget about like that they had their shot they had their

01:19:46.780 shot. It didn't work. That's done. So, all right. Those are my thoughts on that. Andrew Cox, he

01:19:52.700 writes in $10 said, have you guys considered, okay, this is another question kind of in that

01:19:57.560 same vein. Have you considered working with the guys at American mantle, Michael Spangler and

01:20:02.360 Cody justice? I am I'm familiar with them in a peripheral kind of a way. I I've seen some of

01:20:10.960 the material. I've read a couple of the articles. There's some things that I've read that I think

01:20:14.920 are fantastic i i think are really good and there's other things that i've read that i would

01:20:19.320 say um and here's what people want me to do i'm just going to be honest i'm like it'll get me in

01:20:23.680 trouble but i at the end of the day here's you like what's joel's greatest aim in life um my

01:20:29.280 greatest aim in life is to not go to hell like literally every day when i'm thinking about my

01:20:34.440 calculus and what i'm going to do that day or how i'm going to respond to this controversy or what

01:20:37.860 my my my guiding principle is don't go to hell don't go to hell um do right by god is what i

01:20:47.300 mean clear conscience before the lord so this is not um i gotta stand up for michael um it's no i

01:20:55.340 want to do right by jesus i want to do right by jesus so here's the deal um i have in terms of

01:21:02.700 position positioning and then we could talk about strategy but positions um i have uh some

01:21:08.780 objectively uh clear difference in my positions on things like race so he would hold to one thing

01:21:18.340 and i've read a couple of those things and agreed with some of it and disagreed with

01:21:23.120 other parts of it and i would hold to my view so i believe that race is real i believe that

01:21:28.460 there are distinctions. I think that's undeniable. But then the question is, as a Christian, one,

01:21:34.740 how do you account for it? He's trying to account for it from the scripture. And he's putting a lot

01:21:39.420 of emphasis on Noah and his three sons and those things, whereas I'm not accounting for it in that

01:21:45.140 way. Not because I don't, it's in the Bible, right? Like, well, that's racist to believe that.

01:21:50.260 Well, who cares? I believe the Bible. Like, it is actually true. It's objectively true

01:21:55.800 that Noah pronounced prophetic words including blessings and cursings for his three sons 0.77

01:22:03.620 and God let all all you know let God be true and every man a liar you know and and that it came

01:22:09.500 from God and those things panned out the question is are they still active today so my position I've

01:22:14.700 said it many times I'll say it again real brief I believe you know I'm a big fan of Christmas

01:22:19.100 I love the Christmas hymns and and it's just a way of summing up my my belief you know theologically

01:22:24.660 he comes to make his blessings flow as far as the curse is found so i believe in the work of jesus

01:22:30.400 2 000 years ago that all these covenant curses were broken however kind of like a juneteenth

01:22:36.680 situation right so like slavery is abolished but some of them don't get the news till later

01:22:40.740 well uh there are people in sub-sahara africa that did not get the news of the gospel and the

01:22:45.780 kingdom that has come um until centuries and centuries later in some cases depending what

01:22:50.400 what region what country we're talking about some of these guys did not hear any of this until 200

01:22:55.200 years ago and some of them like some of these nations did not even have written language

01:22:59.000 some of them didn't even have the wheel and and then you know christians go european christians

01:23:04.460 go and and they bring innovation and these kinds of but they also bring theology they bring the

01:23:09.040 gospel with them and so so my point is i i just think logically just practically um even if the

01:23:15.980 curse was broken 2000 years ago if you didn't hear the gospel until 200 years ago like let him cook

01:23:22.380 would be kind of my position let him cook like that crock pot just started right because when

01:23:27.340 i think of europe we're thinking of arguably definitely a millennia maybe a millennia and a

01:23:32.260 half if you're going back to constantine and there's arguments for even earlier but you're

01:23:35.540 talking about a thousand to fifteen hundred years of being in the quesadam crock pot saturated in

01:23:41.960 the gospel for a very long time and and i've said it much to people's chagrin they get mad at me but

01:23:46.300 i've said i believe you know like you know sue me but i believe in the power of the gospel um and

01:23:52.160 and not just in the 17th dimension i believe that the gospel changes everything including i know

01:23:56.940 it's crazy including the physical and what do i mean by that um what i mean is look at religion

01:24:03.140 every religion has all these stipulations for spiritual things yes but also physical things

01:24:10.100 including diet did you know every religious text tells you what you can eat now does what you eat

01:24:17.160 and not just for one lifetime but for consecutive generations over the course of a thousand years

01:24:22.780 would that have an impact on that people and their lifespans and their physical health and

01:24:29.080 maybe even the like the full development and functioning of their mind could it even affect

01:24:33.580 iq all i i don't think that that's an unchristian view to say yeah i think that's possible i think

01:24:38.640 if you have if you have the christian gospel the triune god the true god the only one that

01:24:43.080 actually exists and his regulations the law of god all the spiritual implications of that and

01:24:49.360 even the tangible and physical implications even pertaining to things as practical as dietary

01:24:53.960 restrictions and not just that but then also you think about sex monogamy versus promiscuity and

01:24:59.300 polygamy um eating a cow versus using cow dung um and and it's it's uh it's actually unreligious

01:25:07.600 to eat cow because they're holy. Would that have an effect on people physically over the course of

01:25:13.520 a thousand years? Yes, I actually think it would. So for me, I think race is real. I don't actually

01:25:20.200 think race is the best word, but until we get a better one, the reason why I use it just real

01:25:25.080 quick is if we say, well, why don't you just speak of nations, nationality? Well, the problem is

01:25:30.240 there's a bunch of Haitians that in terms of their nationality, they're Americans because 1.00

01:25:34.760 they've been americans for 15 minutes and so i'm trying to speak i am speaking of nationhood but

01:25:39.320 i'm speaking of of historic nationhood i'm trying to speak of nations of origin and that's part of

01:25:44.480 the problem is that we've mixed all the nations up through globalism over the last 15 minutes so

01:25:49.640 now when you speak of nationhood it doesn't mean as much because you could say this guy's an american

01:25:54.100 it's like well you know like the gun mean what kind of american are you the somalian american

01:25:58.220 who's running for governor or uh uh mayor you know who who wasn't even born here that there's

01:26:03.880 different kinds of americans and there's different kinds of englishmen and and this and that and the

01:26:08.560 other and so uh so nationality is not super helpful today because globalism kind of messed

01:26:13.380 that up um ethnicity i don't like that because i really like the way that stephen wolf would

01:26:18.120 describe and others ethnicity i think has has more it's not just genetic it has a lot to do

01:26:22.960 with culture so i believe that america even if we have different um races um because again lack

01:26:30.060 of a better word um i still would say with different races i want to have one uh ethnos i

01:26:35.720 want to have one ethnicity one culture speaks of as experience which is the best way ethnicity

01:26:41.160 isn't a biological reality it's something you experience in the religion that i use the language

01:26:46.020 the songs the holidays the calendar the customs so if we're using ethnicity in that sense i would

01:26:51.300 say that me and clarence thomas share an ethnicity right um in in that sense now obviously i wouldn't

01:26:57.940 just say that without explaining what i mean because then people would be like what are you

01:27:01.020 talking about he's black and you're white and that doesn't make any sense but in that sense so i'm

01:27:05.080 wanting words mean something so i i don't want to use ethnicity because i think that ethnicity

01:27:10.520 should more so refer to the shared experience which also comes over time not in 15 minutes

01:27:15.220 but it is conceivable because it's happened and it could happen again that you could have

01:27:20.120 two different people in the same nation with shared experience and shared culture and history

01:27:25.060 and religion and language, but who are, even over the course of three or even over the course of

01:27:30.780 10 generations, are still different colors, black and white. And so because of that, I don't want 0.99

01:27:36.480 to use ethnicity. And because of nationality, that doesn't help because we're talking about

01:27:40.160 nations of origin and not just who's a part of our nation as of 15 minutes ago. So then I'm kind

01:27:45.420 of stuck using race. So that's why, just for the record, so that's why I use race. So I think what

01:27:49.660 makes it Christian is, you know, to say, well, there's only one race, the human race. I just 0.54

01:27:54.420 don't think that's that's true yes like we're all human beings descended from adam any kind of

01:27:59.340 doctrine and i've seen some of those guys more on the fringes of pre-ademic races i think is heresy

01:28:04.560 i really do i think that eve is the mother of all living the bible says that he eve is the mother

01:28:09.860 of and that gets into gospel implications because when you go to romans 5 so too by one man's

01:28:15.040 disobedience sin entered the world and through sin death so too by one man's obedience the second

01:28:20.220 Adam, the second federal head, father, Christ, right? And so how is Adam representative of all

01:28:25.700 mankind? It's not just that God took a random person, even though there were already all these

01:28:30.000 other human beings who were created through macroevolution and day in Genesis means actually

01:28:36.280 a million years. It's metaphorical. Like you have to be old earth. I don't like that. You have to

01:28:41.180 be an evolutionist, macroevolution, not just adaption, little adaptions over time.

01:28:46.340 don't like that and then you would have to say that Adam actually came later so death didn't

01:28:52.060 enter the world through Adam and his sin death was already alive and well death was alive and

01:28:57.940 well and functioning as God's tool for for creating mankind through macro evolution which

01:29:04.100 is millions and millions of deaths and then eventually he made Adam and so then you have

01:29:08.920 to ask now back to federal headship in Romans 5 so then how is Adam if he's not the first man

01:29:13.780 how is he federal head of all men and then and there's really no answer i've ever heard anybody

01:29:18.800 give that's not at some level arbitrary whereas the easiest way and i think the most faithful

01:29:23.780 biblical way is adam was head federal head is always through fatherhood he was federal head

01:29:29.180 of all mankind because he is the father of all men they all descend from him and in the case of

01:29:33.980 adam he's the father by uh natural birth physical birth jesus is also father now heritage let me

01:29:41.520 explain, there's the father who is not the son, right? And the son who is not the father. But

01:29:46.660 there is one particular verse, and it's not a coincidence, of course, it's God's word, in Isaiah

01:29:51.160 that references Jesus as, you know, mighty God, counselor, prince of peace, eternal father. Why?

01:29:56.940 Because there is a sense in which he is the one who many spiritual sons are begotten through.

01:30:02.280 And so Jesus does have a fathering function in the sense that the reason why he's a second Adam

01:30:07.900 in a federal headship capacity

01:30:09.540 is because he has spiritual sons.

01:30:12.500 So Adam is federal head,

01:30:13.880 not because he was selected millions of years in

01:30:16.220 after all these other brown people lived. 0.98

01:30:18.980 I think that's silly. 1.00

01:30:20.920 And- 0.73

01:30:20.980 Because those people would have been dying

01:30:22.360 again and again and again.

01:30:23.920 Death would have been a normative thing in the world.

01:30:25.620 Before sin entered the world.

01:30:26.560 They would either be eternal and undying, immortal.

01:30:29.260 And then Adam came along, also immortal,

01:30:30.960 or dying, dying, dying.

01:30:31.960 And Paul was like,

01:30:32.960 and really death entered thousands of years.

01:30:34.980 So Paul would be lying.

01:30:36.020 Romans 5 falls apart.

01:30:37.660 so it's a big deal guys it's a big deal um and and this is not from what i understand this is

01:30:42.600 not spangler's view but but i'm saying some of the guys who are more french um but but it's it's a

01:30:47.180 big deal how we view romans 5 and because now we're getting to not only creation genesis 1 through 3

01:30:51.480 but gospel so adam in my view i think what the bible teaches is he's the first man and eve is

01:30:57.260 the first woman and adam is federal head through fatherhood in his case natural birth jesus is

01:31:03.340 federal head also federal headship comes by fatherhood eternal father isaiah says through

01:31:07.920 spiritual birth and and so for that reason um back to race real quick um all people there is

01:31:15.800 one race in the sense that all people are descended of adam that said i do think that

01:31:20.460 there are distinctions not macro evolution distinctions but there are distinctions and

01:31:25.300 adaptation over time and some of the they're not just cultural but i think some of those

01:31:29.700 distinctions are genetic because religion is powerful and religion affects everything not

01:31:35.080 just culture but it also i believe religion has a can have a quicker effect on culture can change

01:31:41.100 someone's culture in a generation but it has a longer effect over the course of 30 generations

01:31:46.260 on even a person genetically what you eat right and religions talk about eating and diet and all

01:31:52.780 these kinds of things so that's my view my view is that there really was a curse um and and god

01:31:59.700 really did speak through noah and the word of the lord never returns void um but the curse was really

01:32:05.420 broken in jesus christ but the news of it being broken still had these people are still worshiping

01:32:10.780 false gods and demons in different you know corners of the earth and so the news of jesus

01:32:16.340 broke the course uh curse but that news has to be brought to them in some cases depending what

01:32:20.740 country we're talking about wasn't brought till centuries centuries you know 1800 years later

01:32:24.820 1700 years later and then you got to let them cook and and in the case of europeans it's a

01:32:30.760 thousand to 1500 years head start which is just the providence and grace of god so that's my 0.57

01:32:36.020 position for accounting for race whereas my understanding of someone like spangler or cody

01:32:41.280 justice is they would account for it differently here's the last thing i was going to say because

01:32:44.060 back to the i don't want to go to hell philosophy one of my my uh most you know chief guiding

01:32:49.140 principles for life um i cannot say nor will i say that michael spangler and cody justice

01:32:55.480 are not brothers in christ and that they're apostates or false teachers and going to hell

01:33:00.860 i won't say it they affirm the creeds from the people who do know them personally

01:33:07.900 that like mutuals somebody who knows them personally that i also have contact with

01:33:12.120 um they all say that they have upstanding character that they are bearing the fruits

01:33:18.280 of the spirit michael spangler is not a situation where it's a single man like he's he's married

01:33:24.160 has multiple children from what i've heard his wife adores him his children love him he's a good

01:33:29.340 father he's providing for them he's seeking to model and and i simply disagree with his position

01:33:34.420 i i don't think that the curse of noah is still in effect i don't like he reads that as um this was

01:33:40.720 um this was god's design for these three families stemming from the three sons and it would be in

01:33:45.760 effect indefinitely that's his view um that's the difference of exegesis you don't call someone a

01:33:53.200 heretic for that you can say i think he's wrong i think he's wrong he thinks i'm wrong i'm sure

01:33:57.960 and but but i'm not going to say um and therefore you're out of the kingdom of god because i'm not

01:34:03.900 going to say that about dabney right dabney held that view a lot of guys have held that view and

01:34:09.280 they could be wrong and it matters i'm not saying it doesn't matter it matters who's right and who's

01:34:13.280 wrong. But we do theological triage, right? There's top-tier issues. You're wrong on that,

01:34:20.360 you're a heretic. You're outside the faith. I would just refuse to say that the perpetuity 1.00

01:34:29.340 of the curse of Canaan and how long that lasts and what its effects are should be held at the

01:34:39.800 level of the Trinity. I just refuse to be that guy. And I know this will get clipped out. It

01:34:45.080 won't serve me well, but I just want to be honest because here's the thing, again, because you want

01:34:49.220 to do right by Michael? Well, yeah, a little bit because I do think he's a brother in Christ who I

01:34:52.840 disagree with or because this or that. No, first and foremost, again, here's my guiding principle.

01:34:58.360 I want to do right by Jesus. I don't want to go to hell. And I actually think it is a big deal

01:35:05.280 and your soul is at stake. I think that there is a slow damning effect, at least the potential of

01:35:14.020 it being damning, when we are going around and anathematizing people who in the final analysis

01:35:21.140 turn out to be brothers in Christ. It is a big deal. And that's why the whole impetus of

01:35:26.760 scripture when it talks about church discipline or even the civil realm when it talks about

01:35:30.320 doing justice is, when in doubt, innocence unless proven guilty. Innocence. Why? Because at the end

01:35:38.200 of the day, there is a God in heaven who's the judge of all men, and no one will ever get away

01:35:43.480 with anything. So better to let someone who is truly guilty get away with something on earth

01:35:49.680 and then get justice in the life to come than to punish an innocent man. And so I think he's wrong.

01:35:57.420 i think it matters he thinks i'm wrong um but but i'm not willing to just um say and therefore

01:36:03.620 i bet he beats his wife that is such cheap rhetoric guys use it against me all the time

01:36:10.060 how hypocritical if i turn around with a guy you know who's who's to my right and and use that same 0.99

01:36:15.820 garbage propaganda and because that's what guys do like because they can't take me out 0.97

01:36:20.840 in terms of position what do they do well i bet he's a really bad person or here's something that 0.95

01:36:26.000 he did in his past 12 years ago or you know what those companies i bet i bet he owned those

01:36:30.900 companies and he's trying to steal people's money like what you do is you try to impute you make it

01:36:35.880 moral i don't think it's moral there's no evidence if it gets produced one day that you know that it

01:36:41.640 turns out he is beating his wife okay well now it's a different story but until something like

01:36:45.860 that comes out i have to assume especially because i've heard from other individuals that i trust

01:36:50.420 that he is a faithful husband faithful father a faithful minister in his case michael's a minister

01:36:56.340 and he holds a view on race that i i not only do i think is wrong i don't like it i'll be honest i

01:37:02.880 don't like it i don't like it um and i wish he didn't hold that view but that doesn't make him

01:37:09.540 a non-christian so all that being said would we ever i don't know maybe maybe so like would we

01:37:15.240 have nick on the show maybe will we have spangle on the show maybe and if we do in either of those

01:37:20.240 cases right if somebody now it's just going to be super chats of would you have this guy on the

01:37:24.180 show would you have david duke on the show would you um so let's just i think this covers all the

01:37:28.560 bases so just fill in the name here's what i'll say as a principle the principle is i'm willing

01:37:34.140 to talk to guys that i disagree with i am that said um if i disagree with them i'm going to not

01:37:41.120 be disrespectful but i am going to have them on the show and and voice some of my disagreement

01:37:45.780 not at not as a gotcha interview not not in a way to try to embarrass them or be disrespectful

01:37:51.260 but i just feel like i have an obligation to my hearers to make it clear this guy's on the show

01:37:56.540 and and i just want to be clear for the record he thinks this and i think that so we actually

01:38:00.980 do disagree but we want to talk about this other thing and i think it matters and blah blah blah

01:38:04.660 so that would be number one in terms of conditions for having someone on the show

01:38:08.080 i would have someone on the show that i disagree with but i would want to make my

01:38:11.820 disagreements clear and publicly state them and here's the other thing and this gets back to the

01:38:17.340 nick thing um i also just like tucker carlson is probably not going to be having nick on the show

01:38:22.220 anytime soon um i don't think it's just because nick is too far out there i think it's because

01:38:27.160 nick has said personal things about tucker and i'm sure it's just for the record i'm

01:38:31.700 tucker just today said personal things about nick so i'm not saying it's all nick but my point is

01:38:37.240 when it becomes personal it's different than than just we hold a different position when it becomes

01:38:42.700 personal it's like this guy has been online saying things about me then yeah guys like i don't know

01:38:48.060 what to tell you you you may not like it you might not agree with my answer but yeah if if if people

01:38:54.460 have been publicly online blasting me by name you know calling me uh b-i-t-c-h you know or something

01:39:02.880 then those guys aren't going to be on the show right so that's where i'm at um let's uh antonio

01:39:09.360 can you try to hit the last one yeah we'll hit the last uh two here we we got a super chat two

01:39:14.440 dollars super chat from renee dean she says mention freud and his relation to bernays sdg i'm not

01:39:20.180 sure what sdg stands okay okay um yeah so sigmund freud um and edward bernays and if i'm not

01:39:28.000 mistaken bernese was his nephew or some kind of relation to freud um and first we can talk about

01:39:33.320 who freud was a freud a lot of his work he was a psychologist and a lot of his work was in cycle

01:39:38.180 analysis and and revolved around this the concepts of the unconscious you know the unconscious

01:39:44.560 unthinking unrational aspect of of uh you know human life and so he talked about suppression

01:39:51.700 and things like that and went all sorts of wonky places but uh for the purpose of propaganda

01:39:57.000 the reason that that is an astute observation here with Bernays is Bernays actually in large

01:40:04.700 part took this these concepts of suppression and the unconscious and applied them to propaganda

01:40:10.040 and brought some of Freud's ideas to America and applying them in politics and business and so

01:40:16.300 you get you know campaigns around tobacco and the use of tobacco you know appealing not to

01:40:22.680 simply the enjoyment of the thing but appealing to senses a you know sense of freedom and this

01:40:28.060 is where you get all of the layered on meaning and uh you know appeal that happened that you

01:40:34.900 have in products nowadays right like that wasn't how people approached marketing for example in

01:40:39.740 the 19th century which was like hey this thing is of utility to you and this is how you'll know now

01:40:46.180 this thing means something it says something about you and so that's the modern concept of

01:40:51.380 of propaganda and politics uh in business and bernese obviously was a big uh proponent of that

01:40:58.080 or you could say uh where it originated and i actually want to point to something because this

01:41:02.320 is important bernese actually represents a unique kind of or you would say development a new

01:41:08.540 generation of propaganda um walter lippman who was a reporter he covered the cold war actually i

01:41:14.240 think he actually coined the cold war um and sort of identified it early on developing talked a lot

01:41:20.740 about the propaganda, both on America and the Soviet side. And he said something to the effect

01:41:26.340 of the manufacture of consent has, has reached a new development in technique. It is now based on

01:41:33.840 exact analysis rather than the rule of thumb. And Bernays is sort of the, the originator of that

01:41:40.440 kind of data analytics. What can we know about people and how they behave? And obviously we've

01:41:46.180 seen that to the absurd now in this day and age with with AI and technology you can you have

01:41:52.380 sentiment analysis and you can scrape the internet and say what are 97 percent of people's thoughts

01:41:57.560 on this topic now let's build a product that's marketed in that particular vein and so it's you

01:42:02.680 get this super dehumanized version of propaganda that's actually if you know what to look for is

01:42:09.720 actually quite simple you know easy to see through so it's a it's a good point in the way that

01:42:14.220 propaganda has changed dude you're an encyclopedia i'm impressed that was good i i'm glad i i didn't

01:42:20.120 even read the question yet i just gave it to you because i just got done talking a bunch and i'm

01:42:24.560 glad i gave the question to you because you actually knew what it was about and i did not so

01:42:28.340 well done uh here at the very end the last question resurrection design co he gave us 10 bucks

01:42:33.500 thank you i just want to uh at least shout out your name and say thank you but it's it's uh and

01:42:38.280 i think he would agree whoever this is um he asked the same kind of question like would you have nick

01:42:43.300 you know or so and so on the show and i feel like lord knows i gave a long enough answer to that

01:42:48.460 but i am curious so so guy you know none of this is is secret um but guys know that like wes and i

01:42:55.680 we have some disagreements but i i just want to honor publicly wes like wes uh always does like

01:43:01.940 a really good job and just saying hey joel at the end of the day it's your show and yes i'm giving

01:43:06.740 my opinions and my thoughts but but if it's something that i know you feel strongly about

01:43:10.820 and i know where where your position is um then i'm i'm not gonna sit there and um and hijack

01:43:18.100 you know the conversation and you know and push my my position it's your show and so i'm letting

01:43:22.800 you lead out but you know west is to my my right on some issues and um and then and obviously we

01:43:28.840 have more way more in common than any difference that we might have but for those of you you know

01:43:32.960 antonio is newer to the show and i just thought it would be interesting to ask you here at the end

01:43:37.400 we've talked a little bit um you know outside of uh podcasting but all that stuff that i said about

01:43:43.480 you know the view of noah and my view of like how i think the gospel i think not just the gospel

01:43:47.640 actually in this case even false religions i think impact people biologically slowly over

01:43:52.660 multiple generations i just want to ask you do you like where are you at on no i i think what

01:43:58.020 you articulated what was is my position as well which is i take a covenantal view of of race um

01:44:04.000 through history and so i think that um you know through covenants that's you know parents uh and

01:44:10.400 teaching their children in some sort of practice and some religion so on and so forth that that

01:44:15.720 manifests in physical physical genetic uh reality um and but and that would be per capita so neither

01:44:23.700 of us are correct like thomas soul is my intellectual superior but i'm saying per

01:44:28.880 correct on average and of course you're going to have statistical anomalies and edge cases so on

01:44:34.580 and so forth but I think like not only is that my position on the merits but I also think that

01:44:39.860 you know we thought talk about eschatology and the post-millennial hope I actually think that

01:44:44.340 is the white pill the white pill is that the gospel changes everything exactly when the gospel

01:44:48.360 moved into Germanic Europe you can see a through history and the telling of history you can see a

01:44:55.920 manifest change in art in sophistication with literature in education so on and so forth

01:45:02.000 and through and actually in prominence and as their civilization started to flourish more and

01:45:07.560 more in northwestern europe and in germania so yeah i think i think that's a white pill for all

01:45:14.700 people that i think so too like i think both so you and i would both say yeah race is real and

01:45:19.520 maybe there's a better word but as a placeholder in the meantime until we come up with it because

01:45:22.780 nationality for the reasons i gave isn't great and ethnicity yeah but race whatever the word is

01:45:27.360 that'll do for now and we both agree that it's real we both agree that there are distinctions

01:45:31.520 and because necessarily by distinctions there are some who are better at this and some who are worse

01:45:35.540 at that um all that seems to be undeniable i think the one thing is we're just saying um not in 15

01:45:41.440 minutes not even in one generation but we're saying uh if the lord tarries in his providence

01:45:46.300 over time multiple subsequent generations that um the deck could shuffle correct yeah so in that

01:45:53.260 sense we wouldn't be race determinist um in the in the end game but but we're also not saying and

01:46:00.120 in the meantime you know one race is human race and everybody's the same we're saying no there

01:46:04.080 are real difference like haitians are not americans yeah i think that yeah it's a silly thought i will

01:46:09.900 say like i think the important thing for my position sounds like it would be your position

01:46:13.780 too is that that to recognize that god is not partial he's not partial with respect to race

01:46:18.160 it is not a lie that we should earnestly desire that all men be saved yeah and um and so in that

01:46:23.880 sense um you know i don't believe that god would have as some people believe uh created a distinct

01:46:30.820 group of people a whole group of people he never intended never and have intended to save exactly

01:46:35.500 so he is saving from every tribe tongue nation he's not partial in the eternal salvific sense

01:46:40.180 he loves all people not willing that any should perish but that all should come yep um to repentance

01:46:45.000 uh we think the deck slowly could it's up to god it may not but but it could change uh slowly and

01:46:52.060 then the last thing that i would say adding on to my position is um the you know the one wrench that

01:46:57.360 sometimes people will throw into my position into the gear um like like somebody like spangler would

01:47:01.780 probably i'm just thinking like you know what would somebody who holds that position um say

01:47:05.740 and i think one thing is they say okay but how do you account for some of the undeniable

01:47:11.240 historically you know uh recorded um innovation and and just um complexity of philosophy and art

01:47:19.420 and engineering pre-christ among greeks for instance you know or whatever and i think that's

01:47:26.720 where i would say see noah so so my position is no uh that that is in the bible and it is true you

01:47:34.300 as a christian you may not like it but you got to do something with the fact that noah had three

01:47:37.920 sons everybody else drowns that's it that's so this is all of humanity represented and um and

01:47:44.020 some of them are going to be higher and uh some of them are going to be lower but one was cursed too 0.76

01:47:49.400 on top of just the natural disparities right one's cursed and one's blessed correct correct so that's

01:47:55.080 where i would point to no and i would say that that's for me that's how i account for some of

01:48:00.060 these races some of these peoples um because i want to put you know part of it maybe me being a

01:48:07.780 lib yeah i'd like to think it's primarily me being a christian i want i want to give the gospel all

01:48:13.020 it's due all it's due um and and so when in doubt i'd rather give the gospel even too much to do

01:48:18.540 you know um and so i want to say man what makes the big difference at the end of the day why did

01:48:23.360 europe take over the world why why did england you know the empire for which the sun never sets

01:48:28.900 you know like why so much success why and and not just success in terms of power but benevolence

01:48:33.540 and and kindness and all this and i want to say because because jesus saved england you know and

01:48:39.200 and jesus i i want to be the kid in sunday school who says the answer is jesus yeah you know and i

01:48:44.500 want to give jesus all the credit and i truly believe that in my heart of hearts i i really do

01:48:48.420 um but i also want to say but also what god did through noah is is real and so so then so i guess

01:48:55.680 and people could say well it feels inconsistent it feels like you're playing both sides but i think

01:49:00.240 these are two things that um don't force i could be wrong i can always be wrong but i don't think

01:49:05.280 it forces a logical contradiction in the objective sense uh that i could say uh very early on pre

01:49:12.040 christendom and those kinds of things um there were differences even then and those differences

01:49:17.260 had to do with noah's three sons yeah and now later on um i think those differences have if

01:49:24.000 anything have only maybe increased and the reason why is because the curse although the curse has

01:49:29.720 been broken and i think the debt can shuffle now um i don't think it's for all of time written in

01:49:35.100 the stars you know european descent will be up here that's not my position um but providentially

01:49:40.960 i think the sons of japheth had a head start because of what god said through noah and then

01:49:45.960 providentially in where the gospel first went and took root it was in european countries yeah and

01:49:51.960 the news didn't even come to some of these other places until much later on and so we're just

01:49:57.200 we're always a product of time and place where do we sit in history and where are we today and so

01:50:02.760 that that's for me just i was just thinking of playing the devil's advocate for the listener

01:50:06.500 is like well okay joel well you're saying it's it's because the gospel changes genetics and the

01:50:10.880 gospel changes everything but how do you account for the greeks or how do you account for this

01:50:14.280 group pre-christendom you know being ahead and there i would say well i think that's another

01:50:18.740 a thing yeah i and i would just say to that as well you know one of the important one of the

01:50:24.060 things i don't like about racial determinism is that i think it actually steals um grace

01:50:30.180 from the equation it steals god's sovereignty and his providence from the equation in the sense that

01:50:36.220 um uh and you know for me let's say i'm a i'm of european descent i'm many many generations down

01:50:44.020 the line. And there's a very real sense in which I was just sort of born. And there can be a pride

01:50:50.420 in just simply being born as sort of God's favored. And we see another group of people

01:50:55.240 who experiences that kind of pride to this day. But what I actually would say is that there's so

01:51:00.640 much, even if you think about pre-Christian differences in Africa and Europe, there's

01:51:06.500 providence involved, right? God's providence and governing and preserving his creatures.

01:51:10.820 it just so happens that not only were practices different and practices that lend to genetic

01:51:16.080 differences like diet and so on and so forth but you also have things like geography and you talk

01:51:20.700 about Noah's sons and them going into different places on the earth and geography plays an

01:51:25.140 important role in economic development and the diet that you're eating the food that nourishes

01:51:29.680 your body that through time develops IQ so on and so forth and all of these things I think are

01:51:34.760 are providential um and there's a grace involved for for those peoples that um were in better

01:51:40.480 places yeah it's funny i even looked it up just out of curiosity on grok i remember like a month

01:51:45.860 ago um just just for fun and just said um because because it's you know it's it's um it's been you

01:51:53.120 know uh recorded that like iq for the first time in a very long time has gone down lifespans those

01:51:57.900 kinds of things in the west and um and so i was looking at that and blah blah blah and and then

01:52:02.500 it's also on record that like all people in america are like a full standard deviation above

01:52:07.680 what they were 100 years ago in terms of iq um and so i was looking at that and i said grok um

01:52:12.680 account for this give me the reasons why and it was funny like even grok was you know said

01:52:18.080 education was a big factor and then also said nutrition and i was thinking about like all

01:52:23.380 the christians who have like i mean lost their mind when when i did an episode we did an episode

01:52:29.540 on genetics and the gospel and nutrition and how diet actually does religion has something

01:52:36.360 explicitly to say about diet and nutrition and what you eat and what what's off limits what you

01:52:41.700 don't eat and here's grok that you know is lib coded except for six hours when it was you know

01:52:46.600 j-pilled for a little bit there you know when they took away the code but then you know right

01:52:50.040 back to the you know it's it's left-leaning it has built into its code certain politically

01:52:55.040 incorrect things that it cannot say and even grok is sitting there telling me well one of the reasons

01:52:59.800 that uh iq went one standard deviation up in america over the last hundred years is because

01:53:05.560 of better nutrition because there actually is something to to to the old adage of you are what

01:53:11.740 you eat right and so even even the the lib ai is like yeah jules right so anyway so i i just i i

01:53:21.080 say that at the end because i know people for a lot of people it's just they they haven't thought

01:53:24.600 about these things and we've and the episodes on propaganda you want to talk about things that

01:53:29.200 we've been propagandized by oh my goodness we have like the egalitarian propaganda that everyone's

01:53:34.720 the same no one's different i mean that has been a full court press for 80 years um and and so i

01:53:43.060 know that for a lot of people this would be not sound novel it would feel foreign and um and all

01:53:50.160 i'm saying is that you don't have to agree and maybe i'm wrong but this is not a crazy position

01:53:55.460 it's not a crazy position so thank you guys for tuning in i hope that you found this episode

01:53:59.720 helpful and um yeah we hope that you're blessed by it today's friday uh tune in for the friday

01:54:05.080 special this evening at 8 p.m central time and then other than that lord willing we will see you

01:54:10.600 again on monday

01:54:20.160 Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

The NXR Podcast - August 01, 2025

THE LIVESTREAM - The Power Of Propaganda

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