The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - What Is A Nation？

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00:00:44.700 Since the Reagan era, even so-called conservatives have euphorically championed the idea that anyone, absolutely anyone, can become American.

00:00:55.820 In practice, this means that America amounts to little more than a set of civic convictions and ethical principles that almost anyone can agree to.

00:01:07.500 This view of a nation is almost completely absent to scripture, world history, and the founding fathers.

00:01:15.760 Nations are composed of a distinct people, occupying a distinct place.

00:01:20.820 and assimilation is not merely a matter of intellectual assent and enjoying apple pie.

00:01:28.140 Tune in now as we discuss what is a nation.

00:01:40.640 Last speech that I will give as president, I think it's fitting to leave one final thought,

00:01:46.380 an observation about a country which I love.

00:01:49.880 It was stated best in a letter I received not long ago.

00:01:53.580 A man wrote me and said,

00:01:55.820 You can go to live in France, but you cannot become a Frenchman.

00:01:59.020 You can go to live in Germany or Turkey or Japan, 0.67

00:02:02.220 but you cannot become a German, a Turk, or Japanese.

00:02:05.880 But anyone from any corner of the earth

00:02:10.020 can come to live in America and become an American.

00:02:14.920 one is the one that i share which is that there's a shared set of civic ideals that brought together

00:02:23.320 a divided polyglot group of people 250 years ago enshrined in the declaration of independence

00:02:28.160 and operationalized in the u.s constitution and that's what unites america and your commitment

00:02:32.760 to those ideals is what defines whether or not you're an american i think there are two other

00:02:36.700 competing visions there's more of a blood and soil conception of american identity which is

00:02:41.140 that you vest into how American you are

00:02:43.700 based on how many generations your family

00:02:45.680 and your lineage has been attached

00:02:46.820 to the soil of this nation.

00:02:48.140 Yeah, how many people are in your Kentucky cemetery plot,

00:02:50.460 for instance?

00:02:51.300 For example, you know, and the blood,

00:02:53.460 you are inextricably linked to this land.

00:02:55.880 On this view, you'll have the view, you know,

00:02:58.660 that people won't be willing to fight for abstractions

00:03:00.880 or abstract ideals, but they will fight for their homeland.

00:03:04.260 I disagree with that.

00:03:05.140 This is J.D. Vance's convention speech.

00:03:06.560 Well, I think it's representative

00:03:08.000 of a broader worldview in some segments

00:03:10.180 of the NatCon world. And in my NatCon speech, I rejected that view because I actually think

00:03:15.300 the American Revolution was fought for a set of abstract ideals, actually.

00:03:21.360 All right. Welcome. Here we are. So you got to see, well, I was going to say a rare Reagan-L,

00:03:28.080 but sadly, the more I learn about Reagan, I feel like it's fair to say a common Reagan-L.

00:03:34.080 He was aspirational, but I think idealistic.

00:03:36.540 Yeah. And we were just saying during the clip, we were whispering back and forth to each

00:03:40.100 other. And none of the three of us think that Reagan was nefarious in that. I don't think that

00:03:47.160 he was malicious, that he actually intentionally behind the scenes was like, I'm going to ruin

00:03:51.160 the country. I don't think they realized, Michael, you said, I don't think they realized that what

00:03:58.360 America was and what they had that was precious was actively in the process of being lost. And

00:04:04.240 I don't think he realized how statements like that were actually sealing the future destruction

00:04:09.960 and doom of the country so for him to say that you know that uh that america i mean he essentially

00:04:15.800 says reagan says um that america is the only nation so every other nation on the planet and

00:04:22.440 he's not just talking about somalia or uganda or or japan he's talking about western european

00:04:29.080 nations you know that um you can go to france and you can become a legal citizen but it doesn't make

00:04:34.240 you a frenchman you know or same thing with germany or you know you you can't be a brit

00:04:39.120 by simply moving there as an immigrant and becoming you know a legal citizen but there's

00:04:44.780 one country in the whole world uh where anybody can come from he says any corner of the earth

00:04:50.740 anywhere anyone can come at any time from anywhere and um simply by standing on the magical soil

00:04:59.260 and repeating the magical incantation

00:05:01.920 and watching the Super Bowl and eating apple pie,

00:05:05.820 you don't live in America

00:05:07.880 and you're not just a legal American citizen.

00:05:10.580 You are an American.

00:05:13.040 You can't do that in Great Britain.

00:05:14.700 But he said something interesting there. 0.97

00:05:15.520 You can't do that in Germany.

00:05:16.240 You can't do that in France.

00:05:18.220 Reagan is wrong and we're going to talk about that.

00:05:20.800 Go ahead.

00:05:21.060 He said they can become an American

00:05:23.000 and I still think this is the blindness of that generation.

00:05:27.960 When they read their history,

00:05:29.260 They saw people come and they saw people assimilate into America, like actually become, you know, over time marrying and adopting the culture and to give it a charitable read.

00:05:39.600 I think he would say, yeah, like America is such a society.

00:05:42.220 Now, I would still disagree with him.

00:05:43.480 But that word become an America, not just show up and automatically be an American, I think is important.

00:05:49.400 That's helpful.

00:05:50.080 And I would just want to go even further than that and say that you can come and that your grandchildren can be an American.

00:05:56.500 and we would have a biblical precedent to make a statement like that it's not just an unhinged you

00:06:02.320 know firing from the hip it wasn't until the third generation that someone who had immigrated

00:06:07.820 into israel it wasn't until the third generation that they were fully considered to be a part of

00:06:14.240 israel and to be fully assimilated and have full rights as a citizen of israel especially as it

00:06:21.680 pertained to worship in the temple and those kinds of things and so we've talked about that before

00:06:25.180 and advocated with a general equity of that passage, within a general equity theonomic,

00:06:31.820 and also we think it makes sense with natural law. So you can get there, I think, through

00:06:35.760 natural revelation or special revelation, which are not at odds against each other.

00:06:40.040 Two books that God has written, both are God's Word, Him speaking to us. And so by good and

00:06:47.860 necessary reason and prudence, and also by the Word of God, I think that the general equity

00:06:53.700 applied to today's standard would i would advocate for um that if somebody immigrates number one 0.71

00:06:58.700 we got to get rid of all illegal immigration number two uh we need to radically radically

00:07:04.020 shrink even legal immigration because uh it's been insane uh we we have you know in the last 0.92

00:07:10.260 50 60 years almost 100 million people who have come into the nations way too much so you need 1.00

00:07:16.340 to put a cap um even with legal immigration for the next 50 years is what i would advocate for

00:07:22.240 and then have maybe some immigration those who really want to be americans and then with that

00:07:28.380 the general equity applied is i would advocate for uh that they can attain some form of citizenship

00:07:33.720 but it will not be until the third generation their grandchildren um that they actually are

00:07:39.120 able to vote in federal elections um and have full rights uh as americans so all that being said

00:07:45.520 reagan is right in one sense that i do believe but that's not unique to america i think that

00:07:51.180 that's the case for every nation and it has happened over that's how nations have been formed

00:07:55.280 to begin with every nation involves some kind of migration of people and and then in in not every

00:08:02.240 case but in many cases um a further migration of other people that eventually intermingled

00:08:09.380 intermarried mixed and became one people but none of that happens in 15 minutes all those things

00:08:15.720 happen over centuries and to pretend that you could just export the third world and at the

00:08:21.440 moment that you know 500 000 uh haitians touch american magical soil that they'll become 0.93

00:08:28.700 americans and stop eating people's pets that is naive right that's not the way the world works 0.86

00:08:35.140 we have this problem too because so many people want to come to america yeah we we the the people

00:08:40.080 that founded it were supremely blessed by god and we created something so harmonious so safe so

00:08:46.360 profitable a place where truly i mean we talk about the american dream right you could work

00:08:50.780 hard and be blessed and be safe and all these things but now we have the problem that prosperity

00:08:54.720 brings all the people that want a piece of the pie so it's really unique because we have this nation

00:09:00.320 and with all the problems that it has and things we're dealing with and everybody else wants to

00:09:05.380 be in it too right i would bet 80 of india and we would understand why yeah frankly right like i can't

00:09:11.780 blame them none of that's wrong we just have to say no exactly yeah darryl cooper said you want

00:09:16.760 to be here it makes total sense love you guys we don't wish any harm on you also no yeah he said

00:09:21.860 really well like there's tons of sob stories of people escaping wars and if you have those people

00:09:26.500 coming to you and you don't have a heart for them and say oh i really feel for your circumstance

00:09:30.080 like you wouldn't be human but that line is infinitely long all of them have a story all of

00:09:35.340 them have a reason right many of them would be good workers at what point there's 1.3 billion

00:09:39.380 people in india do we owe all of them have a sob story place in america we can't there would be no

00:09:45.060 america left right real quick so let's talk about vivek now so that's reagan um with sorry real

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00:10:46.980 nothing on x that you'll be missing uh from youtube you'll get all of it so real quick with

00:10:51.500 vivek what i was going to say is um so he i appreciate it in the sense that um i don't feel

00:10:58.040 like he straw manned uh jd vance because he's that's who he's referencing you know jd vance

00:11:03.560 had said uh right before that interview uh in one of his speeches during the campaign

00:11:08.540 that people are willing to to die uh to defend a home they're not willing to die to defend an

00:11:15.120 economic zone or a set of propositions but they are willing to die for a home in a home

00:11:21.240 i would argue michael west we would all argue it's more than this but it can't here's the point

00:11:26.500 it cannot be anything less than this a home um is lineage and land um in other words particular

00:11:35.180 people and particular place and so michael is in the process of publishing a book right now we'll

00:11:40.260 let you guys know when it's uh available to the public um but he's over the course of this past

00:11:45.600 year has been writing a book and uh stephen wolf is reading it and just messaged me today and he's

00:11:50.820 going to do a blurb for it i think john harris is going to do uh an endorsement so different guys

00:11:55.400 We're getting it out there, and Michael's going to be doing the final editing and things

00:11:59.020 like that.

00:12:00.120 But the whole thing is on the biblical case for nations, for Christian nations, and basically

00:12:06.480 trying to answer the question that we're delving into today, what is a nation?

00:12:11.120 What is a nation?

00:12:12.200 And so you came up with five things, and we can maybe add a six.

00:12:15.040 Someone from the chat, if you're listening, messaged in and gave me the sixth L.

00:12:19.380 And it was amazing.

00:12:20.220 Yeah.

00:12:20.800 Liturgy.

00:12:21.160 Yep, so Michael says, you know, defining a nation in a biblical sense would be land, lineage, but in addition to that, so it can't be less than that, land and lineage, that's soil and blood, is what Vivek is saying.

00:12:36.520 We prefer to use the language, particular place and particular people, or land and lineage, and I'll talk about blood and soil and why I think that's unhelpful language here in just a moment.

00:12:44.680 But land and lineage, and in addition to that, it's law, and it's loves.

00:12:50.460 language language and and then we could add liturgy worship um is really important so there

00:12:56.500 needs to be a monoculture that a nation shares monoculture that doesn't mean that everybody has

00:13:01.940 the same skin pigment but it it does mean that um there is one culture we believe america that

00:13:07.800 culture is an anglo-protestant culture that it's unified around uh the protestant christian faith

00:13:14.020 So there's your liturgy, your religion, English, speaking the king's tongue, that's your language.

00:13:21.440 There are certain laws, biblical case law system that really tracks all the way back to King Alfred.

00:13:28.000 So there's a history there, a legacy there.

00:13:31.840 The people, the lineage was predominantly Anglo-Saxons.

00:13:35.960 And then there were waves throughout American history.

00:13:38.600 This has always been the case for America because it's discovering this new world, a massive landmass.

00:13:46.040 And so you had constant waves of immigration.

00:13:48.660 None of that is new.

00:13:50.220 But, you know, the Italians come, the Irish come, the Germans come, you know, the Dutch and all these different things.

00:13:56.840 But it was always to assimilate and still to maintain the dominant hegemony of this Anglo-Protestant culture.

00:14:07.560 So the Germans come and they're not, we don't, the nation doesn't say, and now we speak German. 0.83

00:14:12.940 No, the Germans have to learn English.

00:14:15.040 They have to speak English.

00:14:16.320 And so anyway, so all that being said, land, lineage, that's a place and people, and then laws and loves and language, and we could add liturgy.

00:14:29.820 And so what Vivek is saying that we would disagree with is, first I want to say I appreciate that he says blood and soil.

00:14:38.680 I wouldn't use that language.

00:14:39.680 I'll tell you why.

00:14:40.760 But notice he says blood and soil, and he doesn't immediately launch into, you know, his eyes don't roll back in his head, and he doesn't launch into a rant where he starts calling J.D. Vance a Nazi.

00:14:53.180 Praise God. 0.97

00:14:53.660 I wish that some Reformed ministers had the same level of maturity and tact as Vivek Ramaswamy.

00:14:59.820 sadly they do not so he was able to steal man rather than straw man and he didn't do bulverism

00:15:07.600 you know he didn't get this logical fallacy of saying instead of telling you what you believe

00:15:14.780 is wrong and arguing on the merits and the substance i'm going to assume your motives for

00:15:20.060 why you believe what you believe and i'm going to prove that your motives the why is wrong without

00:15:25.420 ever having to deal with what. That's what bulvarism is. It's a logical fallacy that

00:15:30.340 oftentimes, you know, the reason why people engage in it is because the opponent, what they believe,

00:15:38.120 the substance, is something that they actually are not able to prove false. And so instead,

00:15:44.020 what they do is they assume the motives for why somebody would believe that. So if somebody

00:15:49.200 believes that nations are composed of lineage and land, and you don't like that, and you can't

00:15:54.720 disprove what the person believes, then what you do is you immediately demonize your assumptions

00:16:00.460 for why they believe that. And so I can't, I can't tell you, I can't explain, I don't have

00:16:07.260 the explanatory power to say why a nation is not composed of land and lineage. But what I can do

00:16:14.920 is I can call you a racist. And so I'm going to do that. So I appreciate Vivek not doing that.

00:16:20.420 I hope that other reformed ministers would be able to have the same maturity of a Hindu who's 1.00

00:16:26.780 Christless. It's sad when those who worship false pagan gods are making reformed ministers look 1.00

00:16:33.500 inferior in terms of their character. So hopefully the reformed church can learn from that and grow

00:16:39.160 up a bit. In addition to that, I said I don't like the blood and soil language. The reason why is

00:16:46.820 because everybody does track that back to Hitler. The reason why we would say, like J.D. Vance,

00:16:51.560 home, particular place, particular people, or land and lineage instead of blood and soil is

00:16:57.320 because Hitler's conception of blood and soil is not what people on the right are saying today,

00:17:05.000 on the new right are saying today. He wasn't just saying that, you know, Germany is its own

00:17:10.580 sovereign nation, and it's distinct because it's a particular geographic region, land, and it's

00:17:17.200 particular people with a heritage and a lineage. What he was saying with blood and soil is it was

00:17:24.740 wrapped up, he was saying that, but in addition to that, he went further and was saying that this

00:17:30.400 is wrapped up in a kind of a Norse pagan kind of mythological conception that this particular land,

00:17:39.460 in his case, Germany, was a magical, a superior soil. It was actually in an ontological,

00:17:46.900 magical, mythological way. It was a superior land, a magical soil, and that out of the soil,

00:17:54.860 it produced a superior blood, a superior race of people. And so that we would disagree with.

00:18:02.720 That's not, our position isn't saying that America is magical and that it produces those who are

00:18:07.880 born here are therefore ontologically, you know, superior to people anywhere else. That's not our

00:18:14.940 argument. But we do think that blood and soil are two of the five or six components of what make a

00:18:23.080 nation. And because blood and soil, that rhetoric will always be tracked back to Hitler and people

00:18:27.800 instinctively think Thor, pagan mythology, we choose not to use it. There's certain things

00:18:34.100 that are worth redeeming because they've been hijacked. And there are other things where it's

00:18:37.560 just not worth the fight. You know, and so blood and soil, yes, but much better to say land and

00:18:45.940 lineage or particular people, particular place. And a nation, again, is more than that. It's not

00:18:51.940 just land and lineage. It's also law, liturgy, language, loves, but it can't ever be less than

00:18:59.840 that. It's not just an economic zone. It's not just a set of propositions. And the final thing

00:19:03.740 i'll say about levesque is one um he didn't call jd a nazi i think that's good too um he actually

00:19:10.380 i think steel manned the argument it was brief but but he didn't uh use a straw man conception

00:19:15.440 of of the people in place uh conception of a nation uh but then the third thing i'll say

00:19:21.620 about levesque is that in the final analysis he does say and i reject this right and i think i'd

00:19:27.520 be remiss if I didn't say, um, he rejects it likely because he's Indian. And I just think

00:19:34.860 that that's worth saying. It's, um, like, I think we're, I just think we're being silly. I'm not 0.94

00:19:40.520 trying to, you know, get clicks here or, or be, um, or be obnoxious. Um, but I, I really think

00:19:47.820 we're being silly if we don't acknowledge um that the uh the the hindu indian guy um doesn't like 0.96

00:19:56.980 the idea of defining nations as a particular people in particular place well of course he

00:20:02.220 doesn't right of course he doesn't like that um because that doesn't particularly work in his

00:20:08.680 favor now to see point a back to the you know the previous arguments that we made um i think that

00:20:15.180 vivek does embody a lot of america's virtues and i'm grateful for him in many ways and with each

00:20:22.700 generation um vivek his children and grandchildren and like um that they will they'll be able to lay

00:20:31.100 claim to lineage and land um so so that's not something that's like you can never have and

00:20:37.140 your descendants can never have um but to argue that that it's not even a part of of conceiving

00:20:44.340 of a nation is not helpful because if vivek wins that argument you don't get um a billion viveks

00:20:52.120 that's right you get a billion people who poop in the street that's what you get um you won't get 1.00

00:21:00.660 if vivek wins this argument you won't get more viveks you'll get more haitians eating cats and 0.88

00:21:06.540 dogs right and that's why it matters okay yeah if we could title this first segment it would be

00:21:12.240 really trying to narrow down and insist on a much more narrow definition of american than even we've

00:21:17.100 been offered reagan would be the conservatives of the past vague would be the conservative of

00:21:21.480 today the conservative of the future really insisting on a much more narrow definition

00:21:26.040 let's get into some straight just definitions because nation race ethnicity lineage they're

00:21:31.840 all closely intertwined and sometimes you'll be talking with someone and you realize you're both

00:21:35.280 using the same word you're talking about ethnicity the way they're using it is totally different

00:21:39.620 you're talking past each other. So we're going to lay out some definitions here. These are from

00:21:42.700 people smarter than we are. They're from scripture. And hopefully it's helpful. Even if you disagree

00:21:46.980 with us, you can say, okay, that's where my disagreement is on this definition. This is

00:21:51.360 where I think this plays a bigger role, et cetera. So starting off, let's start with the foundation,

00:21:55.620 which is race. Michael, you bring up a good point in your book. This is a newer word. We don't

00:22:00.000 really see it used as much in the Bible, I would even say. We see actually race is pretty close to

00:22:06.100 nation, that the two would be almost synonymous. I think of the children of Israel. Literally,

00:22:10.400 there was a man named Israel who had children that became the nation of Israel. They were his

00:22:15.440 offspring. They were his lineage. They were the nation of Israel. But race is something. It's not

00:22:20.140 everything, but it's not nothing. I offer this definition. Physical traits passed down from

00:22:24.800 ancestry that delineate people into distinct groups. So their physical traits, it's not culture,

00:22:30.780 we'll get to that in a second, passed down from your ancestors, the people you're related to,

00:22:34.600 and they delineate, they separate people into distinct recognizable groups.

00:22:39.640 It's a little bit tricky here.

00:22:40.680 You'll see some people emphasize one side of it.

00:22:42.400 Some people emphasize the other.

00:22:43.880 There's a very real sense in which scripture speaks of men belonging to the one human race

00:22:47.940 and to distinct races.

00:22:50.120 So Acts 17, 26, it's on your screen.

00:22:52.940 God hath made, this is Paul, of one blood, all nations, all races, you could transliterate

00:22:59.040 it as, of men for it to dwell in the face of the earth.

00:23:01.940 God made of one blood, of one seed from Adam, all the nations, all the peoples to dwell in the face

00:23:07.560 of the earth. So that's the one human race. And people will say, well, there's no race. There's

00:23:10.860 just the one human race. That's a half truth. It's not the full story. You're going to say 0.97

00:23:15.680 something, Michael? No. There are also distinct racial groups. This is Deuteronomy 32.8. When the

00:23:21.340 Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the 0.91

00:23:29.100 bounds of the people you see three times repeated he separated he he divided them he made them

00:23:35.760 distinct uh how did he make them distinct in what way well i don't know there's a big ocean between

00:23:40.080 america and between europe right there's mountain ranges mountains rivers deserts oceans yeah

00:23:46.440 intended for people to be separated remember babel everyone's trying to wait you're saying

00:23:51.160 the land separated them the land that god made that he set up that he made in in uh

00:23:58.740 impassable so again race it's not everything but it's not nothing uh so my background i actually

00:24:04.760 am on my dad's side anglo-saxon uh we can trace our name back to about 1300 um in literally the

00:24:11.100 anglo-saxon english area which is why i'm so based uh wes has been a racist for 800 years

00:24:17.420 it's a long-standing tradition he thought the world war was going to fix that uh and then on

00:24:21.980 my mom's side german so i have those two things i have english i have german but here's the deal

00:24:26.320 And this is why we have to have another category than race.

00:24:29.040 That doesn't tell you the actual experience.

00:24:31.520 It doesn't tell you the language I speak.

00:24:33.300 That's where ethnicity is a helpful term.

00:24:35.380 So Stephen Wolfe, in his book, 0.96

00:24:36.640 This is the Case for Christian Nationalism,

00:24:38.980 he then goes on to say ethnicity. 0.63

00:24:40.660 This is really important, guys.

00:24:42.280 So big picture real quick.

00:24:44.080 Race and ethnicity are both helpful terms

00:24:46.460 and they don't mean the same thing.

00:24:47.900 Exactly.

00:24:48.540 Go ahead.

00:24:48.920 At least in this way of describing them.

00:24:50.680 Two different terms.

00:24:51.720 They used to.

00:24:52.640 They used to.

00:24:53.180 In the classic theological sense before Darwin.

00:24:56.320 they actually did mean even today to be japanese racially is to be japanese ethnically but that's

00:25:01.500 not always the case for every nation it's not helpful exactly so historically you could conflate

00:25:07.060 these two words but for today's purposes they should be separate and that's not um a nefarious

00:25:13.000 hijacking of the english language um it's actually uh language evolving and developing in a helpful

00:25:20.460 way because we need more than one term to describe two different things because we have a certain

00:25:26.000 phenomenon that exists today that that previously um i mean you could say it existed in some

00:25:33.100 conception within the roman era and things like that but not like it does today today we have

00:25:38.460 because of airplanes and and boats and ships and technology and all these kinds of things

00:25:44.280 we are propaganda and propaganda is that multiculturalism and globalism and marxism

00:25:50.540 So because of nefarious ideologies and technological innovations, for these purposes and these reasons, we have nations like Japan, which its race and ethnicity are virtually synonymous. 0.59

00:26:06.260 It's an ethno-national state.

00:26:09.460 But then we have places like America that are not.

00:26:12.520 And in America, we have different races and we have different ethnicities. 0.72

00:26:16.540 ethnicities and what we're going to argue is that different races within measure is perfectly

00:26:22.560 permissible but we should actually have one culture and from that culture and the way that

00:26:30.220 we're going to define here with steven wolf ethnicity in that sense it should be one ethnicity

00:26:35.920 one that culture is is um is paramount to the way that steven wolf and others it's not just him

00:26:43.200 in our modern era because of the globalism and a new, we have just a whole new world. And so it

00:26:49.400 has to be defined carefully. The way that ethnicity is being used by, I think, really good thinkers on

00:26:55.800 the right today in our modern time is ethnicity translates more to culture, whereas race would

00:27:02.340 translate more to your actual lineage and your ancestry. And that, of course, would include

00:27:09.440 color and pigment things like that okay all right so this is steven wolf's definition and again

00:27:13.820 listen here we're not talking about physical traits and genetics although i will say they

00:27:17.320 are typically closely related we'll get to that ethnicity is shared language manners customs

00:27:23.360 histories that's a big one history time rituals calendars by fourth social expectations duties

00:27:32.000 loves and religion steven wolf says this in his book i modified it a little blood relations matter

00:27:37.980 They do matter, but they do not directly establish the boundaries of one's ethnicity.

00:27:43.180 I mentioned English and German.

00:27:44.800 None of those tell you what language I speak.

00:27:46.800 They don't tell you what denomination I belong to.

00:27:49.060 It doesn't tell you all Lutheran or Anglican.

00:27:51.300 So you have that genetic component.

00:27:54.600 It matters.

00:27:55.120 It gave me my skin color, my height, my bone structure, my disposition.

00:27:58.780 But then ethnicity, culture, all of those things actually then filled in what it looks

00:28:03.040 like for me now to be here.

00:28:04.240 200 years later is about my ancestors came over distinctly american in my ethnicity so try to

00:28:10.120 think in those categories i think it's helpful genetics and race and then like you said that

00:28:13.940 that ethnic component of that actual experience and with that nathan go ahead and put the

00:28:18.200 definition back on the screen but with that we were you know talking just as a thought experiment

00:28:22.780 as a case study about um african americans here in the united states so when you think of the

00:28:29.220 black population the black community um notice that the way that ethnicity is being defined here

00:28:36.420 by steven wolf and we're adopting this definition we think it's helpful um it is entirely conceivable

00:28:42.640 impossible even plausible that um if you think of the south you know and confederates and things

00:28:49.220 like that you can have um well let's let's even go a little bit you know past that so not all the

00:28:56.340 way back to the civil war but but some of what came out eventually descendants of the south and

00:29:01.780 things like that booker t washington booker t washington would be the same ethnicity as george

00:29:08.600 washington right according to this definition again let me read it here ethnicity shared language

00:29:13.720 they're both speaking english manners customs and notices even histories so that doesn't happen in

00:29:21.120 15 minutes but over time so by by the time you get to booker t washington and you're looking at

00:29:26.720 you know originally this the settling not immigration but settling of america by anglo

00:29:31.440 protestants george washington being one of them and then also the transfer of slaves because of

00:29:37.480 the slave trade um it is entirely conceivable that you could have someone like booker t washington

00:29:43.420 who could say well my ancestors my blood ancestors have been here for 200 years right and george

00:29:50.260 Washington, you know, and some white guy that partners with Booker T. Washington to accomplish

00:29:55.020 lots of good things. Both Christians, Booker T. Washington was a man who loved the Lord. He was

00:30:00.440 a good Christian man. So he could have his white friend and, you know, Booker T. Washington as a

00:30:05.480 black man. And then his white man, who's his friend, could be a descendant of George Washington.

00:30:12.400 And Booker T. Washington, I'm not saying this is a fact, but let's just say hypothetically that

00:30:16.420 he's a descendant of one of george washington's slaves but by the time you get there history is

00:30:22.620 actually included we're not we're not just fabricating that that's a real history that's

00:30:26.380 a 200 year history so you would actually have between booker t washington and some white guy

00:30:31.680 who's partnering with him you'd have shared language you'd have manners you'd have customs

00:30:35.480 you'd have history and it's entirely possible that you could have a black guy 100 years after

00:30:40.400 the civil war who has the same shared history uh with a white guy who was a confederate because

00:30:45.700 he actually fought for the south because he actually was a good christian man believed in

00:30:50.460 those values um didn't want his entire all of his customs and all to be completely uprooted and all

00:30:57.460 those like yeah he wasn't a fan of slavery but but he believed that that was coming to an end

00:31:01.700 regardless eventually and um and he loved the south and he loved those people so you could have

00:31:07.400 two guys like that a white guy and a black guy who share language they share manners customs and

00:31:12.260 a history, a 200-year-old history, plus rituals, calendars, social expectations, duties, loves,

00:31:18.860 and the Christian Protestant religion. And so the point is, our desire, what we would like to see

00:31:26.620 for America, is the same thing that we believe God desires, and that God actually planned and

00:31:34.500 has prescribed through his authoritative command in Scripture, what God's planned for every single

00:31:40.980 nation on the planet um it is not actually a blessing of liberty it's not actually um a brag

00:31:47.520 or a boast for america to say um god says this about nations and we reject it yep um it's actually

00:31:55.580 that doesn't mean that we have transcended or that we're somehow above it all we're not above

00:31:59.800 it all we're beneath it all we're actually in rebellion against the lord god almighty we desire

00:32:06.080 for america to be a monoculture and that be an anglo-protestant culture or you could use

00:32:11.040 if defined this way the term also ethnicity we would like to be an ethnos state with this

00:32:18.040 definition of ethnicity that does not mean that we will be a monoracial state so america because

00:32:25.960 it is unique in its founding and in its history with various waves of immigration after immigration

00:32:32.380 whether it be the germans or the italians or the irish yeah let's let's finish this thought and

00:32:39.440 then we'll do it um but because there's various ways of immigration um and from the from the

00:32:45.460 onset because of slavery um you have a black population there's still a dominant race at

00:32:52.600 least in our founding there was a dominant race and it was english people it was people from

00:32:58.340 england that was the dominant race but you did still have at a certain point and not just 15

00:33:03.920 minutes ago but a few hundred years ago there was a point in america in early on where um you could

00:33:10.900 say there were 20 percent um of america was black right and so um for those um people that now that's

00:33:19.280 different than haitians immigrating last week but for those people who track back there they're

00:33:25.560 american and we would like for them to be american and we'd like for us too to be american in in a

00:33:33.580 in a true sense and michael made a great point we were talking about this as a case study before we

00:33:38.820 started recording but um black america was heading in many ways by by virtually all metrics they were

00:33:47.000 heading in that direction and were hijacked yep by the frankfurt school by marxist by

00:33:53.920 civil rights act by the uh the heart seller act by all these different things um but you look

00:34:00.540 before that and you look at the harlem of the south and you look at um the advancements of the

00:34:05.680 guys like booker t washington and and the advancements that they were making um and and

00:34:11.440 what they were trying to do was head overall there's always individual you know bad actors

00:34:17.040 but overall they were heading in the direction of we we just want to be american um we want to

00:34:23.140 love Jesus, love the Christian Protestant religion. We're not asking for special handouts or this or

00:34:31.980 that. We just want to be American, just like everybody else, with shared history, shared

00:34:36.880 customs, shared manners, and a shared religion, most importantly, and of course, a shared language.

00:34:42.120 But that got hijacked. And there's a reason why today, when you look at voting patterns,

00:34:48.160 like even this is something, I'll take just a moment to do this. When we get things wrong,

00:34:52.720 it's good to correct it publicly and publicly repent, right?

00:34:56.240 That's what repenting is changing.

00:34:58.420 So I remember saying about the election

00:35:00.420 just a couple of weeks ago that the big divide-

00:35:03.340 You were before the election?

00:35:04.540 Yeah, when we did our live stream, I think.

00:35:07.060 It was either the week before or the live stream

00:35:08.960 when we were live streaming the election.

00:35:10.220 But I remember saying that the big divide nowadays

00:35:12.420 is between men and women. 1.00

00:35:14.740 And I was right in the sense that the divide

00:35:17.240 between the sexes has enlarged. 1.00

00:35:19.340 That is true.

00:35:20.600 But then looking at the metrics,

00:35:22.720 post-election once they were all posted uh the reality is um that the biggest divide that the

00:35:29.280 gap is getting bigger especially with the younger generation like gen z between men and women

00:35:33.080 however it still stands that uh the biggest divides in terms of voting pattern is not sexes

00:35:40.660 right and it's also not religion it is race it is and by god's grace uh trump was able to get

00:35:48.080 the highest turnout of any republican since reagan so 20 of black men voted for trump praise god

00:35:54.380 uh when it comes to latino men it was i think 47 or highest number almost half like in latino

00:36:01.460 so amazing praise god for that um but just again to use black and white as a case study here 0.69

00:36:07.420 um black women i think was less than 10 92 to 8 yeah for kamala yeah so eight percent of black

00:36:14.300 women voted for trump right 20 of black men so if you split the difference there then if my math is

00:36:19.920 right that's 14 and then if you look at uh the white vote so so what i want to what i'm recanting

00:36:27.320 here is um white women um in the younger generation gen z are splitting more and more from white men

00:36:35.380 but women are more liberal than men that's right uh-huh but on the whole white women married and

00:36:41.400 single combined every generation from boomer all the way down to gen z white women on the whole 0.56

00:36:46.360 was i think 59 was for trump um and and 59 white women for trump is a lot more than 20 black men

00:36:57.080 for trump right so the biggest divide is still not men and women right the biggest divide i have to

00:37:02.000 be honest is is still black and white and my point in bringing that up is just as an example

00:37:06.580 to to prove my point um there is a big because what you're one of the things you're voting on

00:37:12.580 uh in a national election like that is you're voting on the vision of the country that it's

00:37:17.780 uh what is the country going to be what what is its culture what culture do i want and right now

00:37:24.180 um the average black person not all of course not all but the average black person wants america to

00:37:30.080 be something very different and so my point in bringing that up is to say um that's actually

00:37:35.420 a new development. So we don't believe that that's proof. So therefore, black people aren't

00:37:41.600 Americans or can never be Americans in a monoculture sense. No, we're actually very 0.92

00:37:47.420 hopeful about that because of the power of the gospel and because we believe all the nations

00:37:51.760 will flock to Mount Zion and will be Christianized, and that'll include all the people that make up

00:37:55.420 those nations. So we're very hopeful for black America in a future sense from biblical grounds,

00:38:01.400 but we're also hopeful because we can look at it from historical grounds and we can point back and 1.00

00:38:06.920 say they were on their way and it got hijacked and it was hijacked by a bunch of marxist it was it

00:38:14.800 wasn't hijacked by you know that all the black people decided together we're gonna you know what 0.86

00:38:19.260 we've decided we want to stop working and we're just going to get on welfare and uh and we don't

00:38:23.640 really you know uh want to be you know we don't like protestant anglo culture anymore and we're

00:38:28.600 going to do things our own way and we're going to vote for democrats who want to destroy the nation 0.95

00:38:31.600 that's that's not what happened actually it was um a bunch of marxists who used as a puppet guys 0.64

00:38:39.600 like michael king martin luther king um and and used him to absolutely through the civil rights

00:38:46.640 act and all these things destroy the black population in america um but it wasn't always

00:38:51.940 that way and because it wasn't always that way i'm hopeful that it doesn't always have to be

00:38:55.860 that way. And I think Trump in this most recent election is a sign that maybe it's moving the

00:39:01.040 right direction. So anyways, all that is to say that you can have Booker T. Washington and George

00:39:09.240 Washington and them be, in the way we're conceiving of it, in this definition of ethnicity,

00:39:16.240 the same ethnos. And historically and biblically, certainly, nations are ethnos. That's what they

00:39:23.700 are right and if it's not then you don't actually have a nation you have an empire and empires

00:39:29.280 eventually whether it be uh being overly altruistic or or whatever every story of the rise and fall

00:39:37.860 of empires is eventually they spread out too thin they cover too many too much ground in too many

00:39:43.680 tribes too many different ethnos and um and they eventually implode uh empires rarely are taken

00:39:50.460 over from the outside forces, whether it's the Babylonian Empire. Well, that one actually was,

00:39:55.720 the Persians and the Bees. I mean, literally God's divine judgment. 0.99

00:39:59.960 Exactly. But if you think of Rome, and you think of Byzantine, or you think of Ottoman,

00:40:05.060 or you think of all these different empires, they eventually accrue so much power that they're

00:40:10.820 rarely actually toppled by an outside power that's stronger than their own. They usually

00:40:18.360 actually implode. And they implode because they begin to eventually think that, you know,

00:40:26.620 everybody can be a Roman, you know, and we can just, you know, all we have to do is just go over

00:40:32.380 to this country and make a deal. And then, you know, and that's what America has been doing. 0.53

00:40:38.880 And so we would like for America not to be an empire. We would like for it to be a nation.

00:40:43.300 And if it's going to be a nation, then we need to have one ethnos, not one race, not one color, but one ethnos. 0.94

00:40:52.040 And right now we don't.

00:40:53.680 And so right now we fit the metrics of an empire in many ways more than a nation, and we think that that's a bad thing.

00:40:58.920 I would offer two. 0.99

00:41:00.320 Why was there so much flourishing, even in the black community, the 40s, 50s, and 60s?

00:41:04.320 We had, by and large, a Christian nation.

00:41:07.100 So our laws, there was rule of law, there was enforcement of it.

00:41:10.680 uh not even then enshrined in law but there's a social expectation for example against wedlock

00:41:15.760 so all of those things surrounded for wedlock uh yes yeah right like the expectation was that

00:41:23.140 you didn't have children out of wedlock uh so all that being said that surrounded the people

00:41:27.440 and then the different peoples inside of it flourished they had families they were productive

00:41:31.800 members of society but as those have receded as we've lost the christian identity the christian

00:41:36.420 social power now these groups that were beginning to come together and to live harmoniously

00:41:40.220 separated out more so much more distinct and especially black culture we have to be honest

00:41:45.460 yeah like rap is not european in its origin no right rap music did not you know come from italy

00:41:50.140 and it's entirely and i've said it before and i'll say it again like people say beauty is in

00:41:55.200 the eye of the beholder no um that's true in the sense if we're saying that the one true beholder

00:41:59.980 that's the final arbiter of beauty is god then sure then beauty is in the eye of the beholder

00:42:04.740 if the beholder is god and he gets to objectively decide uh but art is not subjective um jackson

00:42:09.960 pollock eventually i believe as as our nation becomes more christian and repents of its sin

00:42:15.160 our great grandchildren will go to museums to look at jackson pollock to laugh and say isn't that

00:42:20.100 funny when the nation was in rebellion against christ embraced secularism embraced marxism 0.98

00:42:24.380 and they actually thought that this was art this piece of crap right here that's a joke uh this 0.97

00:42:28.920 this uh relativism abstract you know reductionist you know whatever and i would say the same thing 0.97

00:42:34.200 about rap and i'm and i'm not saying that black people are this way across the board or certainly

00:42:39.320 not that they have to be this way or that they were always this way. But the idea of rap being

00:42:44.080 a legitimate source of art and music, I reject. So I'm not just saying, oh, I don't like it

00:42:49.660 because I'm white and art is perceived by the beholder and it's subjective and different people

00:42:54.780 have different tastes. No, I'm going to go on record saying objectively, if you think that

00:42:59.420 Mozart and, I don't know, 50 Cent or whatever, Jay-Z, that it's just tomato, tomato, then you 0.98

00:43:08.460 You have a low IQ. 1.00

00:43:09.880 You are a stupid person. 1.00

00:43:11.040 Do you know how I know this is true? 1.00

00:43:12.000 Do you know where they-

00:43:12.840 One is superior in the objective sense.

00:43:14.700 I think I mentioned this before.

00:43:16.340 Do you know where the greatest renaissance

00:43:18.320 of classical music is right now in the world?

00:43:20.420 Where?

00:43:21.240 Japan.

00:43:22.520 They love classical music.

00:43:25.880 They train to play the violin. 1.00

00:43:27.840 Common Japan W. 1.00

00:43:28.900 Seriously, right?

00:43:29.740 And it is exploding there right now.

00:43:32.220 I believe it.

00:43:33.060 So all, but that being said, you know,

00:43:34.840 like you are what you eat.

00:43:35.800 And in some sense you are what you consume 0.96

00:43:37.860 in terms of what you listen to and hip hop has been terrible for the black 0.87

00:43:42.480 community. Absolutely. Like the morals, all these,

00:43:45.380 but it's also as an art form. It's like, well,

00:43:47.620 and then we just need Christian hip hop. No, it's, it's not just the lyrics.

00:43:51.520 It's not just the values.

00:43:53.260 There's actually something virtuous in certain instruments and, and,

00:43:57.780 and being conducted and composed in certain ways.

00:44:00.980 There is a way that certain music, even without lyrics,

00:44:04.040 that a symphony stirs the soul in a way that uh drop that beat man uh does not syncopated beats

00:44:11.000 yeah that does not stir the soul and these are not just a matter of opinion and subjective

00:44:16.020 um these are objective i think objective truths and so anyways uh it's funny in the 70s and the

00:44:21.840 80s the fundamentalists they were really sounding the alarm about rap music right right yeah they

00:44:26.160 were right and you grow up and you're like oh those fundies and then you get older you're like 0.95

00:44:30.140 Turn that trash off. 0.99

00:44:31.420 Turn that trash off. 0.99

00:44:32.360 They were right. 0.96

00:44:33.240 Let's go to our first commercial break, and we'll come back.

00:44:35.340 We'll talk more about nations and nationalism.

00:44:36.180 When we come back, we're going to listen to the clip that we referenced.

00:44:39.220 So we have one more clip.

00:44:40.220 It's Martyr Maid with Daryl Cooper. 0.97

00:44:44.220 Sounds good. 0.99

00:44:44.480 We'll do that.

00:44:45.060 Yep.

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00:46:11.280 show notes. America is a country that was founded for the purpose of allowing Christians to do their

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00:47:58.260 All right, welcome back.

00:48:00.040 We mentioned a clip we're gonna play.

00:48:01.140 This is from Daryl Cooper.

00:48:02.980 he's for one uh he's he's based he's our guy this is not some harvard intellectual trying to sell

00:48:08.420 you the idea of a propositional nation uh great dude and an incredible historian i think when

00:48:13.540 the story is written of the the 2000s his podcast and his history and his writing and his study

00:48:18.740 will be very very highly regarded but i took this clips from the jay burden show uh to just kind of

00:48:23.700 show that what we're saying that america really fundamentally in its conception in its founding

00:48:28.260 has been different in Iceland, in Japan, in Uganda, that are almost exclusively monoracial,

00:48:33.560 is that America just hasn't from its founding been that. We've talked about we don't want to 0.99

00:48:37.580 be idealistic. Like in an ideal world, this is exactly what we do. We live in the world that

00:48:42.820 God has made. God is sovereign over how he arranged and apportioned these peoples. And this

00:48:47.340 is just the facts of it. Now, America is young. Our identity could change. Remigration is a real

00:48:52.260 thing. But as it is right now, this is our history. And this is what has happened leading up to this 1.00

00:48:56.900 250th year. So we'll go ahead and play the clip. Um, you know, people have idea that, uh, there

00:49:04.280 was this kind of strong, stable, longstanding American identity that, um, existed before

00:49:13.040 1968 or whatever. Um, and then everything came apart because of the cultural revolution and the

00:49:18.900 hard seller act and everything. And that's just not true. You know, I mean, the, the, the Anglo

00:49:25.760 population that, that fought the civil war, uh, fought the, the revolutionary war was getting

00:49:30.760 displaced, uh, in the cities by Germans and Irish within a generation. Um, you know, the big East 0.56

00:49:36.060 coast cities were like a lot of them were majority Irish and German, uh, and the Germans were

00:49:40.020 assimilating to the Anglo class. So it wasn't quite as like, you know, sort of visible maybe

00:49:44.680 in that sense, but, but nevertheless, like these were people who were still reading German language

00:49:48.940 newspapers at home. And no sooner did those people get worked into the system. We built a public

00:49:57.120 school system to put these crazy Irish kids through so that they could grow up and become 1.00

00:50:00.640 flag-waving citizens. Then we just got an even bigger influx of Southern and Eastern Europeans 1.00

00:50:05.060 just a generation later. And we had to go through this whole process again. And that went on from 0.82

00:50:10.640 the early 1880s up until the 1920s. We cut off immigration again. But then as soon as we did 0.98

00:50:16.400 that, you started to get the great migration of six, seven million blacks coming out of the South 0.89

00:50:20.640 into the Northern and Western cities, which, so again, like just, you know, the other, they're

00:50:24.480 not coming from a quote unquote different country, but on, you know, on one level, like if you're 0.65

00:50:28.480 coming from, if you're an African-American coming from the rural South, you were a sharecropper and

00:50:32.740 you're moving to Detroit in 1945. I mean, a lot of ways you're more foreign than somebody who's 0.96

00:50:38.260 coming from Berlin to, to Detroit, you know, much more familiar, at least with the urban environment

00:50:42.660 and so forth. So like, you know, uh, America's a big ass country. So people come from one side 0.98

00:50:47.680 to the other, especially back then when there were major regional differences, uh, you know,

00:50:51.900 it was like a new, uh, a new migration from another country basically. Uh, and that went

00:50:56.260 on up until the 1960s and petered out, uh, you know, at that point, and then it was replaced

00:51:01.260 with the heart seller act, which is the world we're in now. And so we've been in this, we've

00:51:05.540 been in this state where we've had to redefine ourselves and we've had to reshape our story to

00:51:15.080 include new people in it and over and over again throughout our history. And there really was no

00:51:20.700 long period of time where that was not the case. It was pretty much from the beginning. And one of

00:51:26.400 all right all right yeah so the reality is uh god profoundly blessed america like even with

00:51:38.740 those things even though it was at first majority english and then german and then irish and later

00:51:43.860 the black like god profoundly blessed our nation even despite the way we've been different from a

00:51:48.560 lot of other nations on earth and so see that's the key though is like did god bless our nation

00:51:54.480 because we're different or did he bless our nation despite yeah like and i think a lot of people

00:51:59.440 think like god blessed our nation because like this is what all the democrat liberal progressive

00:52:05.120 marxists think is like diversity is our strength he like uh we've been blessed we've been so strong

00:52:10.320 so successful because no uh and it's like no no no no no we were blessed because of our founding

00:52:17.040 and initially in that founding it was not um diversity is our strength it was yeah it was

00:52:24.100 an anglo-protestant yeah um founding an anglo-protestant nation and they're having waves

00:52:29.080 of immigration since but even with those waves of immigration at least initially for the first

00:52:34.200 couple hundred years really were settlers not just immigrants and they actually assimilated

00:52:40.140 to that anglo-protestant thing and that's why we've been so blessed and as we've lost that

00:52:45.440 the blessing is evaporating go ahead yeah i was just kidding who was it in that podcast that you

00:52:50.200 sent us was it our honor cj who was saying even you know people immigrants would come and they

00:52:54.720 would rename their children or they would name the next generation with traditional american names

00:53:00.100 that's right they're not german names but edie roble said the same thing recently he said um

00:53:04.400 he said i'm glad that my dad um you know because he's half puerto rican and he said when my dad

00:53:09.740 you know came here um he really wanted to be an american and that's why he named me adam yeah

00:53:15.640 um which by the way ad robles is uh his name is adam and his wife calls him adam all of his

00:53:22.180 friends call him adam um ad was a joke because he just noticed that every like christian author

00:53:27.560 would use like their uh first name initial name initial rc sproul exactly so he did it you know

00:53:34.260 aw tozer or whatever uh he did it as a joke but now everybody like calls him ad like but it's not

00:53:39.260 even his preference he's like i remember asking him you know a couple years ago i was like is it

00:53:43.000 okay if i call you adam he's like yeah that's my name but anyways so he was making a point and i

00:53:48.140 can't remember but he gave he gave like a puerto rican equivalent of adam which i i don't know

00:53:52.900 what that is because i'm not puerto rican and i don't care um and 80 would support that 100

00:53:57.480 but he was like i'm glad my dad didn't give me the puerto rican equivalent of adam as a name

00:54:03.280 but instead he moved to america because he didn't want to be a puerto rican in america he wanted to

00:54:08.040 be an american right and he is puerto rican but he wanted to be an american and he sure as heck

00:54:13.020 wanted his kids to be american and so he gave us american names that's what's so powerful about

00:54:19.140 assimilation is if you properly assimilate and you take on the characteristics of a nation

00:54:23.760 you're leaving the one of your fathers you you're like ruth does your people will be my people

00:54:29.420 like something does does die you leave behind a language you leave behind habits you leave behind

00:54:34.560 maybe even family members to cling to a new nation like that's the seriousness of assimilation

00:54:39.620 nationalism like even patriotism the word comes from patre which means fatherland it's it's so

00:54:46.740 eventually as time goes on your fathers lived there that's serious we've got to stop we do this

00:54:51.500 with marriage well no fault divorce if you want out of it well patriotism it's like you like the

00:54:55.880 flag and you go to the cookout on july 4th but you're going to anyway because they were grilling

00:54:59.860 No, no, no. It's deep-seated commitment and a willingness to say, I'm going to leave behind

00:55:05.660 this other thing that conflicts with it. I'm going north, which means I don't get to see

00:55:09.200 what's south. Right. That's well said. Real quick, this is just an interjection, but some of you guys

00:55:15.400 will probably notice by the time, some of you may have noticed in the live chat, but you'll

00:55:21.360 definitely notice as people watch this video in the coming days, but the Antioch statement has

00:55:26.380 just been uh released and posted on twitter by uh doug wilson and and joseph boot and it's basically

00:55:33.380 ezra moscow and apologia so it's your james white jeff durbin joe boot um andrew sandlin uh doug

00:55:40.880 wilson and there's some other signers and tobias is one of them um he's the the pastor in frankfurt

00:55:45.820 germany and so anyways um people are already asking like somebody said uh it's curious that

00:55:52.660 Joel hasn't signed it. And like, I had literally been aware of it for 15 minutes. So, you know,

00:55:59.620 people are probably going to wonder, you know, like, are you going to sign it? And what I'm

00:56:03.920 going to do, I can tell you this right now, what I'm going to do is I'm going to first read it

00:56:09.500 carefully. Before we started recording, I read some of it. And some of it was good. And some of

00:56:14.240 it I don't like. But I'm going to read it carefully. And I'm going to do I'm going to do it the same

00:56:20.940 way, I do everything, which means I'm going to do it in community. I'm going to co-discern this

00:56:27.660 statement on its merits. Is it biblical? Does it honor the Lord? Is it truthful? And what does it

00:56:36.340 actually say? And I'm going to do it together. So I'm going to do it with Michael. I'm going to do

00:56:40.800 it with Wes. I'm going to do it with my co-elder, Connor. I'm going to see what he thinks about it.

00:56:45.800 But then I'm also going to be doing this with Ogden, right? Response is not going to come out

00:56:49.940 and sign this, if Stephen Wolfe and Andrew Isker and C.J. Engel and Brian Sauve and Eric Kahn,

00:56:58.080 and we're already in communication. We're aware of it. It was leaked to us a little bit early,

00:57:04.140 and so we saw it. And so we're already, communication is already underway. Me and

00:57:09.220 Brian and Eric and Andrew and all the boys, the boys are talking, and we'll read it. But here's

00:57:16.600 what we will do that I think will be a blessing to the body of Christ at large. It may cause a

00:57:21.240 division. We'll see. It depends what we ultimately conclude. And we don't have any final conclusions

00:57:27.020 as of yet. We'll need some time. But this is one thing that I can promise you. What we won't do

00:57:33.120 is we won't be gay like Al Mohler and Mark Dever. And yes, I think gay is the appropriate word. 1.00

00:57:40.360 um when they didn't sign the statement on social justice and the gospel they refused to tell people

00:57:47.260 why right they never told people why i remember i was there in person right because i was pastoring

00:57:52.120 california at the time this is march 2020 and i was there at shepherd's conference with the

00:57:58.120 infamous panel it was phil johnson and john mccarthur were on stage and phil johnson was

00:58:04.340 kind of moderating this conversation and then you know with him and mccarthur you also had

00:58:08.880 al moeller and lig duncan and uh and mark dever and phil johnson was kind of saying like guys why

00:58:16.400 you know like i just we don't understand you know the macarthur crew we came out and signed it the

00:58:21.160 g3 crew we came out and signed it this is an obvious problem uh rising through the ranks even

00:58:28.700 in reformed churches this wokeness this neo-marxist uh crt wokeness and we both this and al moeller

00:58:36.900 and Mark Dever and Lig Duncan would not give an answer.

00:58:40.540 The closest any of them got to giving an answer

00:58:42.620 was Lig Duncan.

00:58:43.480 Which was a terrible answer.

00:58:44.340 Which was a terrible answer,

00:58:45.580 where he basically said,

00:58:46.540 well, I need to fold on race 0.99

00:58:48.260 so that my kids don't become gay. 0.99

00:58:53.180 And so when I, so like earlier I said, 0.98

00:58:55.420 like I called them gay. 1.00

00:58:56.660 Gay is the appropriate word. 1.00

00:58:58.320 They gave very gay answers. 0.97

00:59:01.240 And so what they never did is they never told you why. 0.97

00:59:04.300 The closest they got to saying why they didn't sign it,

00:59:06.900 is they said, well, I would have worded it differently.

00:59:09.620 Let me say this.

00:59:10.820 I've never heard anyone ever say anything in my life

00:59:14.760 that I would not have worded differently.

00:59:17.700 Everybody, you know how many times I've been told

00:59:19.580 that people will have some kind of complaint

00:59:22.000 with something I said in the sermon or something.

00:59:24.180 And I'll just keep asking questions

00:59:26.620 and trying to, what's the problem here?

00:59:28.400 What's the real problem here?

00:59:29.840 And they don't oftentimes have any real substance

00:59:32.820 or whatever substance they did have.

00:59:34.800 I then give an explanation.

00:59:35.860 I show them in scripture why that's wrong.

00:59:37.780 So then they get rid of that.

00:59:39.080 And then what it usually boils down to is always this, but was it necessary?

00:59:43.020 Or, but your tone, and then we press harder and we press harder.

00:59:46.380 And then the conversation almost always, 99% of the time ends like this.

00:59:50.140 They say, well, I wouldn't have said it like that.

00:59:53.200 Yeah, because you're not me.

00:59:55.380 I wouldn't say things the way you say them.

00:59:57.140 You want to say them the way I say them.

00:59:58.660 Like nobody says anything the way that other people say them.

01:00:01.000 That's part of what makes us unique.

01:00:02.620 Of course you want to say it like me. 1.00

01:00:03.940 That's so stupid. 1.00

01:00:04.920 So, I will not be Al Mohler gay, Ligon Duncan gay, Mark Dever gay. Me and the Ogden boys and 1.00

01:00:12.340 Stephen Wolf and Andrew Isker and C.J. Engel and A.D. Robles, all the boys, we will read the

01:00:18.500 statement. We will read it carefully. We will pray. We'll wait. We'll pray. We'll think. We'll

01:00:24.820 deliberate. We'll study, looking at scripture, looking at history. We'll talk together, and then

01:00:31.400 we will come out and we will either sign the statement which is probably unlikely or we will

01:00:37.640 not sign the statement and in not signing the statement we will produce hours of content

01:00:43.280 explaining precisely why we're not signing the statement and our answer i guarantee you will not 0.84

01:00:49.860 be well we wouldn't say it that way because that's a gay effeminate fake answer that's a that's when 0.97

01:00:56.560 a coward knows that something's true can't blatantly he can't blatantly say that it's not 0.97

01:01:02.760 true because he knows it's not that it's true but he can't put his name behind something if we don't

01:01:07.600 sign this statement we will tell you exactly why exactly why um substance not just wording why i

01:01:15.660 want to say it that way uh we will tell you why the statement is either objectively wrong in its

01:01:21.760 substance it's actually wrong or we'll sign it right simple as that all right good word just

01:01:29.380 want to define so we talked about nation it's a people it's a place there is one criticism this

01:01:33.580 is typically guys farther to our right and they would they would make the argument and there's

01:01:37.000 good art good justification for from history nation can never be reduced to less than race

01:01:42.100 and so technically speaking there would be multiple nations within the u.s uh here's the

01:01:46.960 deal that's a good conversation to have i think we would all at this point too yeah it's possible

01:01:51.080 At this point, we disagree.

01:01:52.460 But here's the deal, and here's why Christian nationalism,

01:01:54.640 we don't just want to be correct in theory and have academic discussions.

01:01:58.200 We want to win.

01:01:59.620 Whether we are 5, 10, 11 nations contained here in this continental United States

01:02:04.640 or one single one with some people that have to go back

01:02:07.300 because they just got here five minutes ago,

01:02:09.000 whether it's multiple or one, here's the deal.

01:02:10.880 We are all under one law, and then those residing in the states are under state law.

01:02:16.000 Those laws, right now, the short-term goal is for them to be Christian. 0.68

01:02:19.680 Let me just define nationalism. 0.88

01:02:22.240 You wouldn't hear nationalism in the Bible.

01:02:24.100 You wouldn't hear that word.

01:02:25.580 It's the French Revolution, where the people decided their identity wasn't going to be bound to a monarch,

01:02:30.140 but they were going to be bound to the national ideals.

01:02:33.020 This is nationalism.

01:02:34.020 This is, again, from Stephen Wolf.

01:02:35.220 He says this.

01:02:36.680 Nationalism is a totality of national action to procure for itself, that is the nation, both earthly and heavenly good.

01:02:43.100 Simply put, nation is for itself. 0.75

01:02:45.520 Now, how does Christian nationalism modify that?

01:02:47.800 It's not brand new.

01:02:48.460 it doesn't come in

01:02:49.060 in a totally different category.

01:02:50.520 It is nationalism.

01:02:51.420 It's a nation.

01:02:52.120 It's for itself, 0.99

01:02:52.900 but it's Christian.

01:02:54.560 Christian nationalism,

01:02:55.700 as defined by Stephen Wolf,

01:02:57.180 a totality of national action

01:02:58.820 conducted by a Christian nation

01:03:00.640 to procure for itself

01:03:02.460 both earthly and heavenly good

01:03:04.660 in Christ.

01:03:05.940 It's the same thing

01:03:06.540 as the nation looking out for itself.

01:03:07.280 It always says it's just 0.92

01:03:07.880 conducted by a Christian nation 0.89

01:03:09.300 and then at the end,

01:03:10.660 in Christ.

01:03:11.340 Exactly.

01:03:12.500 So, because nations will always,

01:03:14.480 peoples will always see

01:03:15.380 they're good.

01:03:16.120 They want to see their crops flourish.

01:03:17.680 there's one there's one nation currently that's not yeah right america doesn't but yeah but

01:03:23.620 nations with a head on their shoulders you would hope um so the christian nation seeks that good

01:03:29.640 but it does so in christ it says we want these blessings and we want not just earthly but

01:03:34.360 heavenly blessings and so we do so self-consciously someone put in the comments and it's a great

01:03:38.660 rebuttal there's christian universities there's christian families there's christian schools

01:03:42.780 there's christian businesses all of these things can be christian why not i ask you

01:03:47.320 the nation oh it can be it says we are christian its laws are christian its identity is christian

01:03:53.700 and even on the protestant thing i don't know what you guys think about this we're not just

01:03:57.440 anglo-christian we would be anglo-protestant now catholics and eastern orthodox i would

01:04:02.600 personally say they can stay but here's the deal maybe you don't get a parade down washington dc

01:04:07.160 with a statute of mary right we're a protestant nation right and even a catholic nation like

01:04:12.300 italy they could say uh we're not on reformation day gonna have a march for mark luther right

01:04:17.220 The nation can actually do that. 0.58

01:04:18.960 Now, Protestantism, we of course believe, is true, and Catholicism has a lot of errors to it.

01:04:24.900 So it's not about an ultimate true-false thing, but the nation in itself that says we're Protestant, we're Catholic, we're Eastern Orthodox, can then say it will only be public practice exclusively of the Christian religion.

01:04:36.460 Well, and that's one of the things with Catholicism here in America is that many different historians and even theologians have said that the Catholic priests in America frequently got in trouble with the larger diocese and with the Pope and the Cardinals and the Vatican and all those kinds of things on a regular basis with Catholicism globally because the Catholic priests in America were so Protestantized.

01:05:06.460 by the larger American hegemony,

01:05:09.400 which was an Anglo-Protestant,

01:05:10.860 not Catholic, but Protestant culture.

01:05:13.240 And so simply by virtue of being

01:05:15.180 a Catholic priest in America,

01:05:18.200 they couldn't help but assimilate

01:05:20.180 to some degree, some fact.

01:05:21.680 And so even Catholicism in America,

01:05:23.660 while distinct from Protestantism, 0.53

01:05:26.360 still kind of like an amoeba absorbed, 0.57

01:05:29.940 it couldn't help itself, 0.63

01:05:30.920 but to absorb some of these Protestant virtues

01:05:33.400 and ways of thinking and stuff like that.

01:05:35.400 Joel, I've lived in a Catholic South American country.

01:05:38.480 There you go. 1.00

01:05:38.780 And it is true.

01:05:40.460 It's not the same.

01:05:41.760 I mean, obviously, the fundamental tenets are going to be,

01:05:45.160 but the practice of it and its assumptions and its cultural,

01:05:49.200 the way it weaves through the culture is totally different.

01:05:51.320 Catholicism in America is a little stitious,

01:05:53.380 but Catholicism elsewhere is superstitious,

01:05:55.780 as Michael Scott would say.

01:05:58.440 But yeah, no, you go to Mexico,

01:06:00.180 and you look at Catholicism in European places,

01:06:03.640 and you look at it, especially in America,

01:06:05.400 uh versus like in in mexico it's like um it's very much like if you ever watched the movie coco

01:06:10.940 right the disney movie like it's you know day of the dead like it's magical mystical superstitious

01:06:16.220 yeah syncretism yeah it's syncretism with false mexican gods you know and pagan you know so let

01:06:21.760 me say this too before we'll head to the break for encouragement for some of you that are like 0.90

01:06:25.400 we've got muslims we've got jews and hindus and all these things here's the deal short-term goal 0.99

01:06:30.220 christian nation when you establish a christian nation and you say no more mosques no more 0.84

01:06:34.660 synagogues not no more giant statues in texas not conversion at the at the point of the sword

01:06:38.960 stephen wolf has a whole chapter on that you can't command the conscience so you're not going

01:06:42.420 into people's homes holding a gun to them recite the apostle's creed right but you are saying

01:06:46.900 public worship none of these things are allowed how many somalis that came into minnesota when 0.77

01:06:52.480 that's done say you know what i think i'm going to go back how many jews if pornographers were 0.86

01:06:58.140 executed in the town square would pack their bags and head to israel right penalties for usury and 0.51

01:07:03.920 not every jew not everyone not every jew but um yes uh west you know west saying uh pinpointing 0.92

01:07:11.400 jews there and saying you know like notice he said one thing for somalians but he chose pornography

01:07:16.800 as an example when he said jews um yeah that's fair guys that's fair um of course it's not all

01:07:23.980 jews um but but yes there is i mean you can just look at the books it's on paper the statistics

01:07:31.160 are there there is an outsized disproportional amount of jews involved uh when it comes to

01:07:38.480 pornography and so that i i said this on a podcast months ago i think it was the the green green

01:07:45.500 tavern tavern dragon tavern or something like that green dragon yeah um it's it's the guys with

01:07:50.680 the sentinel great guys um and and so they they graciously had me on the show and we were talking

01:07:55.960 And they're like, well, you know, like a Christian, you know, Christian nationalism is, you know, the divide is, if you haven't noticed by now, the divide is getting wider.

01:08:05.500 So even with the Antioch statement, it's like, well, who's on one side and who's on the other?

01:08:09.780 Like, okay, well, you know, one side is we're very, very, very concerned about Jews.

01:08:14.360 And then the other side is, well, we're not so concerned.

01:08:19.880 We love Jews as we love all people, and we wish them a very pleasant conversion to Christianity. 0.94

01:08:25.960 But for those who refuse to convert and those who are actively involved in things that are nefarious, like usury or like pornography, then yeah, we would like them to leave our nation because we like our country.

01:08:37.760 So there's that side. 0.96

01:08:39.160 And then there's the other side that's, we really, really love Jews.

01:08:44.240 And so you can look at the distinction there.

01:08:47.520 But there are always other distinctions.

01:08:49.300 That's what I like to do when I'm kind of looking at some kind of argument that's happening online.

01:08:53.580 All right, let's get down to common denominators.

01:08:55.720 what are other things that separate these two groups well here's another thing that separates

01:08:58.860 everybody with the antioch statement is a theonomist yeah they're all theonomists whether

01:09:05.340 it's ezra apologia or moscow they're all og theonomist um but you look at ogden more general

01:09:12.480 equity some stricter but still under that broad umbrella right um but you look at ogden stephen

01:09:18.320 wolf andrew isker cj and me um pretty much all of us except for cj and wolf have used

01:09:25.360 uh the theonomy moniker ogden has uh used that language right um if it was 2020 and 2021 right

01:09:32.940 um you would be hearing the ogden boys talking about theonomy um andrew isker was a part of

01:09:39.640 gray friars with doug wilson absolutely you you know he has described himself as a theonomist

01:09:45.680 i have absolutely described myself as a theonomist you may have noticed over the past year year and

01:09:51.000 a half. Every time I describe myself as a theonomist, I always take the time to say

01:09:56.020 general equity, theonomist. I am, in some sense, I'll admit it publicly, I am distancing myself

01:10:05.340 a little bit. To be fair, Joel, I've been listening to you for a couple of years, and

01:10:09.380 I've heard general equity come from you almost from the beginning. So you may be more intentional,

01:10:14.240 but I actually think you're being consistent. Because you're the Bruce Dooney flavor of

01:10:18.740 theonomy too which he is i wouldn't call myself one anymore but he is he is one of the best 0.98

01:10:23.920 thinkers really we don't have a great record 50s to the today not a lot of bright brilliant c.s

01:10:30.680 lewis's uh augustine's calvin's we don't got many rush duny was brilliant and even my disagreements

01:10:36.740 that i would have with him his application his his interpretation his exegesis his application

01:10:42.480 to current events was incredible and so i think you're you were drawing a lot from that and rush

01:10:47.340 junies is awesome yeah and i think that's part of part of what changed my mind was uh reading

01:10:53.380 stephen wolf and having conversations with him um and then number two was um getting to know

01:11:00.900 theonomist because when i came into theonomy i you know i read a couple rush junie books i read

01:11:06.200 greg monson you know and by what standard and and i was like this is great right um and i still

01:11:13.380 stand by that i really like theonomist the dead ones verse duny too i like the dead theonomist

01:11:18.920 so much of this comes from he reads van till when he's ministering as an opc minister in a native

01:11:23.960 american settlement yeah and in the settlement he's seeing rampant alcoholism he's seeing

01:11:28.660 degeneracy and perversion and so he's seeing all of this and he manages to pick up a copy of

01:11:32.960 cornelius's van till on christian ethics a book on ethics and he sees the connection of wait we're

01:11:38.220 lawless we're godless we're wicked we need to return to god's standard so 2020 the reason a

01:11:43.340 lot of us love theonomy was because again the state got tyrannical and we realized like whoa

01:11:47.400 the state is under christ and under his moral commands just like any other institution like

01:11:53.260 the family and everything like that but there's good reason why we saw the need for well we can't

01:11:57.760 just do this a la carte or shoot from the hip as far as the state there is a standard that god

01:12:02.280 requires the state to do that's a good right to carry out so my point is you know with this

01:12:07.280 Antioch statement that just came out. One of the dividing lines, it's like, you know, you're seeing

01:12:11.600 it coming to head with the issue of the Jews. But under the surface, you're seeing in terms of

01:12:18.320 theological distinctions, it's kind of theonomy versus Christian nationalism. That's becoming a

01:12:22.780 bigger divide. At first, it was like, well, we can all do this together. I mean, after all,

01:12:26.180 Canon, Moscow published, Stephen Wolf, The Case for Christian Nationalism. And so I thought,

01:12:32.060 you know, Christian nationalism is kind of just like the big banner, and theonomy would be a

01:12:36.780 subset within that but now it's becoming more and more increasingly two distinct groups and so all

01:12:42.280 the way back to you know west's comment about the jews uh what i was going to say is you know when i

01:12:46.980 went on that that uh podcast the green uh dragon tavern or whatever whatever uh it is but the

01:12:52.520 sentinel guys great guys um when i went on their podcast i said no like um my position would not be

01:13:00.200 you know, in a Christian nationalist conception, my position would not be that Catholics have to

01:13:07.660 leave, Jews have to leave, atheists have to leave. No. But what you would do is you would enact

01:13:16.240 just Christian laws, just Christian laws. So in the public sense, in a legislative sense,

01:13:22.740 and in terms of public rituals, things that are celebrated, virtues, holidays,

01:13:28.880 all those kinds of things, the public square, legislatively and culturally, it would all,

01:13:36.020 it would absolutely, unapologetically play favorites. And there would be one favorite,

01:13:42.200 but it would be Anglo-Protestants. That would be the favorite. So there would be no public 0.99

01:13:48.520 Catholic parade, but you could have a public Protestant parade. And there would be no law

01:13:55.560 that says jews can't live here but what there would be is uh anybody to hold public office

01:14:00.700 would have to make a christian profession of faith right a christian profession of faith

01:14:05.900 so not just a 15 minute profession of faith and the profession over time and they would have to

01:14:11.840 have a track record of it that's right um so um no practicing jew who hasn't converted to 0.51

01:14:18.500 christianity right uh would be able to serve in public office also you ban porn you ban usury 0.90

01:14:24.440 um and what would happen is uh jews you can't have political power without recanting repenting 0.79

01:14:33.120 and converting you can't make money through porn you can't make money through uh usury what would 0.88

01:14:38.900 happen is it good jews who do exist hear me there are good jews good jews would stay many would 0.67

01:14:46.200 convert some wouldn't convert but they just say you know what um even as a jew i'd rather be a 0.98

01:14:52.640 jew in america than a jew in israel yep right which to be honest would probably eventually

01:14:58.060 lead in their towards their conversion because they'd be like well why is america better than 0.75

01:15:02.060 israel oh maybe the christian god is the true god blah blah so good jews would stay bad jews would 0.79

01:15:08.280 leave and that's my concern yep my concern is not that uh no jews live here and no catholics live 0.95

01:15:14.540 here and no buddhists live here no my concern is um that that there be no quarter for wickedness 0.83

01:15:23.380 no quarter for wickedness you um no you don't get to be a dual citizen of israel in the united 0.92

01:15:30.120 states and serve in our federal government or in congress no way right no way and no you don't get 0.88

01:15:36.760 to do pornography whether you're a jew or whether you're anglo i don't care just it would be

01:15:42.780 disproportionate the effect it would be and we should acknowledge that but it's across the board 0.56

01:15:48.120 it affects so what you do is you don't outlaw people you outlaw wickedness but here's the deal

01:15:54.460 this is where i get in trouble christian nationalism doesn't outlaw people it outlaws

01:16:00.080 immorality but in outlawing immorality it will affect certain peoples more than others

01:16:07.540 and that's what i think some of my brothers on the theonomous side of the aisle refused to

01:16:17.440 acknowledge but that's part of the divide here point like israel was commanded to never forget

01:16:24.560 some of the things that the amalekites and one of the other tribes had done like there was a

01:16:29.220 there was an eternal grudge that god put in place because they had done and been more wicked towards 1.00

01:16:35.320 israel than any other people group like right that's straight out of yep the army and same 0.90

01:16:41.020 thing baltimore and detroit you need rule of law yeah gangbangers and murderers and rapists 0.73

01:16:45.740 you need to have as the bible requires public justice after a fair trial that would have a

01:16:50.780 huge impact just in a year of getting people to see because that's what the law does is it teaches

01:16:55.380 oh this lifestyle will actually lead to quick severe justice like many people's i believe they

01:17:03.180 they would go back yeah that's all all we're talking about it's a meritocracy voluntarily

01:17:07.660 voluntarily yes nobody's rounding them up they're saying deporting all we're talking about is a

01:17:13.160 meritocracy and then what what wolf is conceptualizing is is a christian meritocracy um and

01:17:19.000 the beauty of like because people say like well you know like you know some of the race essentialist

01:17:24.140 and guys who you know they'll get and say like uh well i just don't think that um any black person

01:17:30.120 could ever xyz i'm like well first that's just wrong like i've talked to vody bacham i've read

01:17:38.240 thomas soul i've read clarence thomas is single-handedly saving the nation right now

01:17:44.260 so it's just it's wrong i understand what you're saying from a group dynamic i'm with you i'm not

01:17:49.100 one of those i'm not joel barry i'm the good joel praise god you know so i'm not joel barry and so

01:17:54.520 i'm not going to pretend like well clarence thomas and that proves that there's no difference between

01:17:58.420 white but no there there are differences i wish there weren't i wish there weren't but there are

01:18:03.920 right there weren't in behavior god did make in terms of behavior yes yes but yeah hold on though

01:18:08.160 even right now even israel had 12 tribes and they had cultural and even linguistic differences

01:18:14.640 like there are going to be differences right but like west said that's what i meant is um i wish

01:18:21.780 there weren't um moral in terms of morality i wish there weren't even in israel that happened

01:18:26.140 right right and so i believe that number one the deck can be shuffled um so i'm not a fatalistic

01:18:32.940 guy when uh when i think of when i conceive of race so i i believe there are disparities between

01:18:38.940 races as it currently stands moral disparities i believe there will always be distinctions

01:18:44.360 natural distinctions always because that's god's design that's a good thing um

01:18:49.260 because heaven will be diverse not every nation on the planet here on earth in this temporal life

01:18:57.120 are supposed to be diverse but heaven will be because it will be composed of different nations

01:19:02.260 that throughout this gospel age somehow maintain their distinctions that's the only way you get to

01:19:08.020 the final end game of heaven nation tribe diverse you can't have a diverse heaven if everybody just

01:19:13.700 folds in and becomes one blob so that that assumes revelation and the final end game of

01:19:21.220 the diverse heaven nation tribe and tongue assumes that distinctions will be kept and upheld as good

01:19:27.280 things decided by god now all that said that's natural distinctions right now there are moral

01:19:33.660 distinctions that i don't believe is is um is etched in the stars and always has to be

01:19:40.420 that i believe can change um europe can um morally become radically inferior to zambia

01:19:49.240 morally over time if zambia continues to bow the knee to christ and europe and america continues

01:19:57.080 to reject christ so that the debt can shuffle in that sense and out of morality when a nation

01:20:04.460 changes morally i do believe that that also affects other attributes of humanity as well

01:20:11.180 we've talked about this before the gospel affects everything religion affects everything including

01:20:16.500 diet and so that gets into things like epigenetics and all these different ideas that

01:20:20.320 okay what if they bow the knee and you stop being cannibals and you stop eating raw meat you know

01:20:25.900 or using cow dung instead of actually eating the cow looking at you india you know when you make 0.56

01:20:30.820 these kinds of changes does that affect somebody's physical being does that affect their health and

01:20:36.840 and over the course of 10 20 30 generations looking at even a millennia would that affect

01:20:42.520 not just their physical health but as it's passed down from generation to generation could that

01:20:46.840 affect even their their whole physical body including their brain and iq right i i believe

01:20:53.460 that all these kinds of disparities but here's the deal the christian ministers who who are looking

01:21:00.060 you in the eye right now and saying these disparities don't exist every young man in the 0.71

01:21:06.500 world can pick up their phone and in 15 seconds can see that the average iq in haiti is 67 right

01:21:13.780 and any christian minister who denies that will not have any credibility they won't credibility 0.99

01:21:20.720 but it is a sin to god is because you're a liar manifested reality you're a liar it's not true 0.99

01:21:25.760 You cannot be a minister of the gospel and be a public liar. 0.98

01:21:30.860 You're disqualified from ministry, from lying. 0.52

01:21:34.800 You can't be a liar and be a minister of the gospel.

01:21:38.060 So we're simply willing over here with Right Response Ministries and other guys like Ogden and guys like,

01:21:45.360 we're not saying, oh, this is how it is and we like it.

01:21:49.860 And we're also not saying this is how it is and it always will be.

01:21:53.120 We're acknowledging all the different disclaimers that I've given, all the caveats, all these

01:21:58.180 things, but we're also, we want to be one of the very few, and it's sad that it's so

01:22:03.400 few, but we want to be one of the very few ministries that doesn't talk to you like 1.00

01:22:08.900 you're stupid. 1.00

01:22:10.600 We want to talk to you acknowledging that you probably have a smartphone in 15 seconds 1.00

01:22:17.700 of spare time and uh and if we sit here and lie to your face it's not gonna go well

01:22:25.520 and and all that establishes in your mind is joel levin can't be trusted so so all that being said

01:22:34.520 my point is um there are moral disparities there don't have to be and i believe because i'm

01:22:41.520 post-millennial eventually there won't be eventually i believe all the nations will

01:22:46.040 flock to Mount Zion, bow the knee to Jesus Christ, and love God's law, and legislate and enact and

01:22:54.460 enforce God's law. It's like Isaiah 2 talks about. Nations being drawn. Nations, races, peoples,

01:22:59.700 groups. And if they're all drawn to the law because they're being saved, and then they start

01:23:04.860 enacting the law, and the law shapes them, it functions as a tutor, it sharpens them, and all

01:23:10.740 the nations will be moral they will all be more and you won't have a disparity between uh well

01:23:16.580 this society um based on race is high trust which high trust right is a moral component this society

01:23:24.500 is high trust this other society of another race is low trust everything even the tables in a park 0.80

01:23:31.880 have to be chained down to concrete because somebody will pull up a truck and steal them 1.00

01:23:36.360 um that's that's not just a different different races are different no that's that's objective

01:23:41.440 that's one is better morally better the other is worse that doesn't mean each and every individual

01:23:47.940 but speaking in group dynamics on the whole and using general language what i'm saying is that

01:23:54.020 not only can that change but because i'm post-millennial i believe not only can it change

01:23:59.340 it will i believe it will change in the meantime though in the meantime one of the things that

01:24:07.020 it drew me to more of the christian nationalist side of the aisle getting back to you know this

01:24:12.500 theonomist christian um is i i have always i remember uh even as a kid i couldn't play with

01:24:20.500 action figures um you know other kids in the neighborhood would want to couldn't do it because

01:24:25.880 it's not real like i understood i could see the incentive to collecting action figures or something

01:24:32.500 but i wanted to build a tree house i wanted to jump on the trampoline i wanted to ride bikes

01:24:38.140 i would i wanted to go down to we lived in a neighborhood that had a river i wanted to ride

01:24:42.120 bikes down to the river jump in the river i remember we want i wanted to go to the the junk

01:24:46.560 yard local junkyard and collect big um those big uh drums that hold air and build a raft and do

01:24:54.080 like a you know tom sawyer thing you know i wanted to do things that were i was not good at pretend

01:24:59.520 i've never been good at pretending um and and i think that's where i struggle sometimes with my

01:25:07.860 theonomist brothers and sisters is like i've never been good at pretending um and and that's part of

01:25:14.700 the appeal with stephen wolf what and how is they pretending stephen wolf ogden these kinds of guys

01:25:23.100 on the more christian nationalist side of the aisle what i was trying to get to is um they deal

01:25:29.900 with they deal with the world as it is i see as it actually is not not in hypotheticals not not

01:25:35.960 what we wish the world was but as the world really is and stephen wolf will be the first one to tell

01:25:41.780 you like if you talk to him like are you a race essentialist or do you think do you just think 0.76

01:25:46.280 that uh we should get rid of every person of color and like he'd be the first to tell you

01:25:50.520 privately or publicly be like no and then you say well then what is your prescription what's your 0.99

01:25:55.700 advice what should we do and he's like meritocracy and then with his definition of christian nationalism

01:26:01.760 all the way back to the definitions that wes shared um he would say uh meritocracy and ideally

01:26:07.140 a christian meritocracy right um because here's the deal so so if if people are saying well there's

01:26:14.180 iq disparities and blah blah blah i acknowledge that i acknowledge and again it's on the whole

01:26:18.420 not each and every individual.

01:26:19.920 C. Thomas Sowell, C. Vodipakum, C. Clarence.

01:26:22.980 But on the whole, there are disparities.

01:26:27.080 There are moral disparities right now.

01:26:28.560 I don't think that'll always be.

01:26:29.840 There are intellectual disparities.

01:26:31.240 I think that part of that stems from moral

01:26:32.960 because like I was saying earlier,

01:26:34.400 I think that the gospel affects everything.

01:26:36.180 But here's the deal.

01:26:37.160 You got to deal with the world as it is today.

01:26:39.260 You got to have a plan.

01:26:40.740 I think sometimes the theonomists,

01:26:42.180 they read Isaiah 2, Isaiah 65,

01:26:44.480 and they say, here's Z.

01:26:46.000 It's like, okay, but we're at A.

01:26:48.420 give me B. Z's great. Give me B. Stephen Wolf is giving us B. And so what Stephen Wolf would say

01:26:56.000 is, no, you don't need to be an all-white nation. You don't send every person of color away.

01:27:02.180 What you do is you get back to what we did previously. You get back to a meritocracy.

01:27:07.580 And then what happens? What happens is that, yeah, to quote something I said that blew up

01:27:13.840 in the past, and I'm fine with it blowing up again, because it's true. I don't care how many

01:27:17.860 people attack me. I'm going to say things that are true. So meritocracy. A meritocracy will mean

01:27:24.040 you have less black doctors than white doctors. One, because the percentage of black America is 1.00

01:27:30.620 less than the percentage of white America. But I think that it might temporarily, for a while,

01:27:36.140 even be less than the percentages. So if black America is, let's say, 13% and white America is,

01:27:43.600 let's say 57 59 percent and that's roughly i don't know what that's there's basically one for

01:27:51.640 every five black people in america is that about shakes down i think you might end up seeing one

01:27:56.880 for every seven one black doctor for every seven white doctors well wait a second what are you

01:28:03.160 getting at joel you know what i'm getting at i don't think it'll always be that way right i don't

01:28:09.620 But it might be that way for now.

01:28:11.740 But here's what you don't do.

01:28:13.660 This is why I get in trouble, because I'm not ambiguous.

01:28:17.880 Because ambiguity saves you from controversy, but it doesn't help the people of God.

01:28:22.620 You guys are listening.

01:28:23.640 You want to learn.

01:28:25.540 You're like, I don't know what he's saying. 1.00

01:28:28.300 The blim-blam.

01:28:29.060 I don't know what that is.

01:28:30.020 I don't know what he's actually saying.

01:28:31.700 What is this person saying?

01:28:33.540 The thing about Joel, you may not like what I say, but you know what I'm saying.

01:28:37.780 right you know what i'm saying i'm clear this is what i'm saying um if there is a disparity 0.99

01:28:44.700 in terms of iq the solution is not to say well then people of color don't get to be doctors 0.75

01:28:50.960 right no what you say is um doctors have to be this good they must be this tall to ride the ride 0.88

01:28:58.020 you know not you must be this color right no you must be this smart this disciplined

01:29:04.260 this knowledgeable this skilled to ride the ride this virtuous yeah this virtuous uh-huh amen

01:29:12.020 and i think that as it stands today with a meritocracy in high level positions politically

01:29:21.120 and vocationally you will see disparities of people holding those positions today over time

01:29:29.360 though, by holding to truth and not just kowtowing for people's feelings or white guilt or this or

01:29:36.380 that, and most importantly, preaching the gospel and nations flocking to Mount Zion and being

01:29:42.600 changed over generations, I think you'll see less disparities. I think you will. I think you'll still

01:29:48.180 see natural distinctions, but I think you'll see zero, eventually in the end game, zero moral

01:29:55.060 disparities and fewer intellectual disparities that's my belief but still cultural distinctions

01:30:03.260 that's if you want to know joel wevin's views on race there you have it and here's the deal i'm

01:30:09.200 i'm not trying to toot my own horn but the last thing i'll say here and and all that means that

01:30:13.360 christian nationalism i think the christian nationalist guys they can have that conversation

01:30:18.400 in a way that theonomists just are unwilling to and if the theonomist rush duny was willing to

01:30:23.440 yeah yeah but the modern theonomist he didn't play great with others to be fair if anything

01:30:27.740 that was his one downfall but he was willing to apply and deal with things as they as they existed

01:30:32.120 and the theonomist today are unwilling to have to talk about what is they're unwilling to say

01:30:39.740 okay but like okay um there's some great jews praise god um but disproportionately yeah this

01:30:48.500 does exist with porn and and so you know and so anyways so i i think um that's if you're wondering

01:30:55.320 that's part of my gravitation towards ogden um isker wolf some of these guys is um they're not

01:31:03.160 just saying we're at a and here's z isaiah 65 leopard and the lamb lying down together beating

01:31:10.060 you know the spears into plowshares and the nation's no longer no war lifespans are elongated

01:31:15.540 And praise God, I believe all those things.

01:31:18.620 But what I like about the Christian nationalists

01:31:20.300 is they're not just saying today and tomorrow, Isaiah 65.

01:31:25.640 Or sadly, like a lot of theonomists,

01:31:27.700 today is today and 50,000 years from now,

01:31:30.860 we'll get Isaiah 65. 0.66

01:31:32.640 But the Christian nationalists actually want to take

01:31:35.680 real tangible wins today, today.

01:31:40.760 And I never played with action figures,

01:31:43.900 back to what I was saying.

01:31:44.580 I'm not good at pretending. I've always been more of a realist. And so it appeals to me.

01:31:51.100 And all that back to, you know, there's my position on race. There's my, you know, I give

01:31:54.660 you guys, the reason I get in trouble is because I tell you the truth. I tell you what I think

01:32:01.520 in clear, non-ambiguous language. But here's the thing that you should know about our ministry,

01:32:07.320 right? Response Ministries, and you should know about me.

01:32:09.240 um there's nothing else under the surface so so what you hear from me i will tell you what i

01:32:18.520 actually think and that's why i get in trouble i will say the things that other guys won't say

01:32:22.020 but here's the deal i'm not winking and nodding i'll say what i actually think

01:32:27.980 and anything beyond what i've said if i thought it i'd say that too so what you hear is what you

01:32:36.880 get there there so i don't go any further than what you've heard me publicly say so you can say

01:32:43.420 well i think that joel really under the surface deep down he's super anti-semitic and he wishes

01:32:49.620 that all the jews would die but no if i thought that i would say it i can vouch for this we talk

01:32:57.640 all the time and it's never like we'll say it there and then we'll get here and like oh we

01:33:00.920 got a button up and not like right we talk about we'll disagree and then we like movies we go to

01:33:06.120 movies and before during the previews we're always talking and it's like me and west theater get mad

01:33:10.640 at us and they get mad at us but me and west will be talking before a movie and i'll be telling him

01:33:14.980 like yeah i think i'm going to say this on the podcast and this is usually how the conversation

01:33:18.180 goes i'll say i think i'm going to say this this week and west will say probably shouldn't and then

01:33:22.500 i'll say i think i will and uh and then i end up saying it you know and and it's exactly what we

01:33:27.760 discussed offline they're like this is why we ended up you know this is why the uh the recorded

01:33:35.120 zoom call with me and the member in our church and tobias and his elders um this is why it

01:33:41.500 exonerated me um i don't mind being recorded i actually didn't record it right my member did and

01:33:49.320 i i wasn't even sure about that um but these things the reason i don't get in trouble is

01:33:58.100 because this is who i am this is you can you can bug me or my house you know whatever and you'll

01:34:04.860 hear, you'll just end up hearing an extra episode of Right Response Ministries. It'll be the same

01:34:09.740 kind of content. This is how I talk with my wife. This is how I talk with my friends. This is what 0.93

01:34:15.360 I believe. And so anyways, all that being said, yeah, Christian nationalism has appealed to me

01:34:19.980 more and more because I want to win. I want to make a difference. I don't know how to get from

01:34:26.600 A to Z. So I need someone who's going to give me B. I think a meritocracy is the way to do it. I

01:34:32.440 I think particularly a Christian meritocracy,

01:34:35.280 a society, a nation that morally and also culturally

01:34:40.400 with customs and celebrations and holidays

01:34:43.220 and all these things favors an Anglo-Protestant tradition.

01:34:49.180 And for whatever reason in America,

01:34:51.300 we have always been the out group.

01:34:53.740 Every other nation. 1.00

01:34:54.540 Right, Anglos of their own nation. 1.00

01:34:56.920 Yes, of our own nation. 0.88

01:34:58.040 Every other nation, Japan, if you go visit Japan, 0.98

01:35:01.200 you're the out group. Japanese are the in-group. If you go visit Uganda, every other nation, 1.00

01:35:09.480 the majority of people there is the in-group. We are the only people who take the majority

01:35:15.140 population of our nation and say, you're the out-group. And everybody else, we will give 0.99

01:35:22.100 favors to them. It actually been in America. That's what was so wrong with wokeness. Not only

01:35:28.620 was it a lie it was the opposite of the truth it tried to say that you somehow benefited by being

01:35:34.480 white in america that you had privilege when it is actually the opposite the direct opposite of

01:35:40.240 the truth in america you get more benefits by being anything in everything other than 0.60

01:35:48.820 anglo-protestant right yeah you have the least benefits the least rewards the least recognition

01:35:56.280 by being a white christian on average that is our besetting sin is a lack of love for our own

01:36:02.420 and that's why you see on twitter and it's like i don't understand why they're always arguing

01:36:06.620 that's why you're going to see us continue to talk about um the order of morris um the the order of

01:36:14.960 loves um love for your own um that's why you saw me back with the abolitionist um arguments you

01:36:22.780 know with voting for trump i said i love my already born children more than my enemies unborn

01:36:28.620 children i love my people i love my people because i'm a christian because i'm a christian

01:36:37.240 and loving your people does not require you to hate those who are not your people i do not hate

01:36:42.580 jews i do not hate muslims i do not hate atheists i hate the wicked but as groups it's not i hate 0.59

01:36:51.500 every single one of these. 0.99

01:36:52.640 We're supposed to have biblical hate

01:36:53.820 for the wicked, the evil.

01:36:55.300 Right, and I want all these people 1.00

01:36:57.240 to convert to Christianity. 1.00

01:36:59.060 And those who convert

01:37:00.360 and have already been here for a while

01:37:03.120 and not just 15 minutes,

01:37:05.000 then you can stay.

01:37:06.300 And those who do not convert,

01:37:08.820 but they have a heritage, a lineage,

01:37:10.960 and have been here for a while,

01:37:12.280 but they don't convert,

01:37:13.640 but they're willing to recognize

01:37:14.980 that this is an Anglo-Protestant nation,

01:37:17.360 a Christian nation,

01:37:18.060 and play by those rules 0.98

01:37:19.260 and don't expect any favors,

01:37:21.500 then you also can stay.

01:37:24.380 But any who want to stay and get special privileges

01:37:27.840 and be favored while, meanwhile,

01:37:33.540 actively trying to destroy our nation 0.89

01:37:36.420 and use us as a tax farm to get billions to Ukraine 0.60

01:37:39.760 or billions to Israel 0.55

01:37:41.160 or flood everybody's phone with pornography, 0.78

01:37:46.460 then, yeah, you can get the hell out of our country.

01:37:50.020 Amen. 0.53

01:37:50.920 Get out.

01:37:52.200 No, you don't belong here. 0.98

01:37:54.360 So, yeah, that's, I don't know if that's theonomy or Christian nationalism or both. 0.83

01:37:59.200 But whatever that is, that's my position.

01:38:02.060 That's the next step.

01:38:03.180 All right.

01:38:03.580 Let's hit our last commercial break.

01:38:04.660 I saw a great question on meritocracy.

01:38:06.320 So we'll hit that.

01:38:06.940 Maybe hit any burning questions in the chat.

01:38:08.860 That'll be it.

01:38:09.660 All right.

01:38:10.680 All right.

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01:40:38.900 All right, welcome back.

01:40:40.160 We had some good questions.

01:40:41.380 I'm going to start with this one.

01:40:43.260 This is from Terry, if you could pull it up, Nate.

01:40:46.000 Scott Terry.

01:40:46.720 Scott Terry. 1.00

01:40:47.580 Can a meritocracy be Christian?

01:40:49.460 And he followed up, my parents, for example, may not be the best parents.

01:40:53.600 I not have the most merit, but I love them anyway.

01:40:56.560 So what is the extent of the range of meritocracy?

01:40:59.640 We're talking in every single thing.

01:41:00.920 i've thought about this and uh that's where natural affection i think is helpful like your

01:41:04.900 kids objectively speaking i love you love your kids but whoever you are your kids objectively

01:41:10.040 are not perhaps the the best students the best athletes like we talk about viewing reality as it

01:41:16.060 is it's objectively true my son is not the tallest but because he's tied to me and he's my son and i

01:41:22.340 love him it's not a question of merit in that private relationship same with my town i love

01:41:27.360 georgetown is it literally the best town in the united states right it is debatable it is pretty

01:41:34.440 awesome probably probably not we have a confederate statue at the courthouse that is true yes it looks

01:41:41.460 like a hallmark movie downtown if you're thinking of moving to georgetown it's quaint it's it's

01:41:46.200 quintessential texas yeah as soon as they stop tens of thousands of people from moving here

01:41:51.180 not even immigration just generally like people are flocking to georgetown a couple years ago

01:41:55.540 because that's an awesome town town in america but all that being said natural affections those

01:41:59.900 are not meritocracy meritorious yeah when that when the kid buys the mug for his dad that says

01:42:04.940 world's greatest dad he's not lying there's there's a natural affection there but in public

01:42:10.520 i think the best distinction would be public distinctions you don't get to be mayor because

01:42:14.260 you're from a discriminated class because you're native american used to live in this land

01:42:17.880 the most qualified right and virtuous person should be mayor pastor same thing it's not we

01:42:24.220 hand out participation trophies like he tried really hard at preaching he's got a lot of heart

01:42:27.420 no the most qualified godly man should be a pastor should be the lead pastor senior pastor

01:42:32.640 whatever terminology you want to use in that public position the church so privately with

01:42:37.380 your family and natural relationships that's not where you apply the meritocracy i love my most

01:42:41.020 talented kid the most but publicly in jobs in positions of office in the state and judges

01:42:48.280 that's where you say that's what i was talking about and that's why i use doctors as an example

01:42:51.820 yep exactly like we moved away from a meritocracy i think if we move and i the only reason i was

01:42:57.240 saying is because i've heard some guys say that like well the solution is um it's genetics it's

01:43:02.020 race for vocation for positions right like for and and i would just say no the solution is a

01:43:08.700 meritocracy well that's the exact opposite may the best man the opposite right now it is race

01:43:13.640 red and yellow black and white right right now they're precious in the sight like if you're an

01:43:17.840 indian doctor and you're good great yeah great but that said also um in terms of ethnicity or race

01:43:27.820 race you can be indian um but you need to um if you live here in america and you're and you're

01:43:35.220 smart and gifted be a doctor great um but also you should convert to christianity

01:43:42.500 and uh and you should love america yep and name your kids american name your kids american names

01:43:49.240 um like that whole clip with the uh you know given the choice between a white and black doctor

01:43:54.560 but my whole point in that was that i would choose a white doctor if both were complete strangers if

01:43:59.940 i didn't know if you had no other if i had yeah um if i knew the black guy like he was a member

01:44:04.600 of my church and i knew that like i knew his scores on his sats and how he did in med school

01:44:08.960 and all that kind of stuff there's a guy here in georgetown he goes to an anglican church that

01:44:11.480 we've met before a black man yeah incredible i would go and see sharp dude 100 absolutely yep

01:44:15.900 absolutely so i wasn't talking about him but i'm saying if there's two strangers one is a white guy

01:44:20.120 i don't know from adam and one is a black guy i don't know from adam i'm going to choose the white

01:44:24.140 guy and here's my point because we as a country have moved away from a meritocracy right with a

01:44:30.160 meritocracy you don't actually have to uh have that debate you wouldn't have to have that debate

01:44:35.540 if we still had a meritocracy that's my point so a meritocracy that's you know when you're thinking

01:44:40.680 a to z that's a good a to b that's a good b it's all right first let's re-establish a meritocracy

01:44:46.880 next what what steven wolf is saying let's make it a christian meritocracy and all all i mean by

01:44:52.920 that a christian meritocracy is just adding the christian component to the meritocracy so

01:44:57.420 you wouldn't necessarily add that for every single vocation under the sun it wouldn't be like hey

01:45:02.780 we need him to be a gifted plumber and has he memorized the book of matthew right like but

01:45:07.820 what i am saying is especially for um public positions of of you know of office you know

01:45:14.020 governmental office um then yes they need to be may the best man win in terms of merit and skill

01:45:20.180 and knowledge and intellect and also that dude needs to be a christian um and in terms of a

01:45:27.260 christian meritocracy may the best christian win a guy who's been a christian for two weeks

01:45:32.140 should lose to the guy who's been a christian and his dad and his grandpa right that's what i'm

01:45:37.540 saying by christian meritocracy i was in pre-med for a little bit in college really like should i

01:45:41.900 go to medical school and my goodness the people of other races the the benefit and the leg up they

01:45:48.780 got compared to white men compared to white men i mean as a white man you practically had to have

01:45:54.240 landed on the moon to have a shot i'm like an average school but i mean there's people with

01:45:58.740 bad mcat scores bad um bad grades which all those are proxies for intellectual capacity right with

01:46:05.720 terrible grades that were they were being welcomed to the top medical schools and they did study

01:46:09.820 obviously and everything like that but but just the the disparity was huge we completely uh inverted

01:46:15.160 it there's another question this one was on theonomist i don't know if it was striker who

01:46:20.980 said it yeah it's all right nate the question basically was we talk about some of the theonists

01:46:28.020 passed a striker and he's been posting that are uh they're not willing to go there who are the

01:46:33.920 names who are there oh like bad the honor i think you just passed it so when you say like yeah i

01:46:39.400 might some of my the honest brothers i can't get behind uh they don't have good answers to these

01:46:43.500 questions they're living who are we talking about yeah yeah okay so striker he says i'm just wondering

01:46:47.980 who are these guys uh who these guys are that joel is describing because it sounds like a bunch

01:46:52.720 of boomers that aren't actually theonomist but i don't know um john andrew reasoner i'll give one

01:46:59.280 john andrew reasoner would be an example of a bad theonomist yep theonomist and committed to it but

01:47:05.300 his application of it here and now and the current like situation we've talked about with the

01:47:09.640 different peoples in america terrible let's let's i i could say it like this if you're a theonomist

01:47:15.820 and you find yourself retweeting um uh kevin young oh yeah not kevin young kevin young kevin young 0.98

01:47:25.840 who is a heretic, gay-affirming. 0.96

01:47:28.600 So if you find yourself as a theonomist 0.97

01:47:30.760 retweeting Kevin Young

01:47:32.040 positively just because he said

01:47:35.300 something negative about Stephen Wolfe

01:47:37.000 and you can't help yourself

01:47:38.180 but hate Stephen Wolfe

01:47:39.580 and so you'd rather side 0.98

01:47:41.600 with a guy who affirms sodomites

01:47:44.540 than Stephen Wolfe.

01:47:47.400 Then you might be a bad theonomist.

01:47:49.540 If you're that same theonomist

01:47:51.000 and you also find yourself

01:47:52.040 retweeting Mike Cosper

01:47:53.160 you know or you find yourself um siding with mike pence and saying that jd vance is a shame 0.99

01:48:00.840 then you're a bad theonomist and uh could the same guy be so dumb as to do all three of those 0.74

01:48:08.240 examples that i just gave yes his name is david bonson so then why does he like what yeah why is 0.98

01:48:16.140 he a big name well one because his dad was great and the apple sadly fell far from the tree and two

01:48:22.740 um he's rich yeah but we don't get money from david bonson so i can say that yeah next week

01:48:32.580 you see a bonson group ad the content might be a little different there's uh p andrew sandlin

01:48:37.620 counter signals uh being physically fit and for your body a lot a lot which is that's been a

01:48:42.520 hard one for me because i i there was some stuff earlier as i was moving out of disby whatever that

01:48:48.860 was super helpful from him just personally and he advocates for if not saying like he'd be happy for

01:48:53.800 his daughter to serve as a police officer most certainly saying that women could serve could

01:48:57.620 perfectly fit in that role that is a great example she does serve as a police officer it's a great 0.96

01:49:03.040 example of not being able to see rights and right what's right in front of your eyes god designed 0.91

01:49:07.320 men yeah force and enforcement and protection you know did not design women for that scripture's

01:49:13.100 clear about that nature's clear about that and it's only possible if you take both eyes you cover 0.96

01:49:17.000 them you could ever come to the conclusion that it's a perfectly valid profession for a woman

01:49:20.940 full-time just be carrying a gun enforcing the law um yeah so that that would be another example

01:49:27.300 i wouldn't people asked about david reese if you're going after david reese with that i love

01:49:31.320 david reese and and one of the reasons i love david reese is um and since i mentioned this

01:49:36.780 about david bonson just in in the spirit of being forthright and honest david reese you know i said

01:49:41.900 David Bonson doesn't support our ministry.

01:49:45.000 David Reese does.

01:49:45.960 Yeah, he does.

01:49:46.600 He's one of our sponsors on our,

01:49:48.780 you guys have seen his ads,

01:49:50.180 Reese Fund and Armored Republic.

01:49:53.000 And so he has been generous

01:49:54.940 and he does support our ministry.

01:49:57.560 But it's not just that.

01:49:59.840 If it was just that,

01:50:01.640 but he was, you know,

01:50:04.100 had the same takes as David Bonson,

01:50:06.060 then it just, it wouldn't work.

01:50:07.760 And we just have to say no

01:50:09.280 and trust the Lord that he provide.

01:50:11.900 financially through another source um but the reason why i love uh david reese and we're

01:50:17.300 becoming good friends is um because he in my experience has been the most um humble and honest

01:50:25.880 of any of the theonomists that i've met or or you know um conversed with that um whether it's race

01:50:34.440 like i had a phone call with him last week and i said hey you should know you know i like you you've

01:50:40.180 seen since you've partnered with me i've been in like 17 controversies you know in the last month

01:50:45.800 and um and like with each one you know so like uh with the whole thing about the jews you know

01:50:52.620 when tobias uh dropped his video on eschatology matters and praise god that eschatology matters

01:50:58.660 when they saw the zoom call and listened to that they took it down and realized that it was filled

01:51:02.240 with slanders and lies um and they they did the right thing but um but that was a big ordeal and

01:51:08.280 a lot of people were trying to cancel me and uh david reese could have easily i mean most guys

01:51:14.160 would just they would they would just click into self-preservation mode that's just that's what you

01:51:18.640 do like why why um why commit suicide public suicide you know like just you know joel is

01:51:25.880 um a landmine and i i'm just gonna back away you know but he didn't he just he did what nobody

01:51:33.640 else has done like he called me he called me um that's not fair i shouldn't say nobody else has

01:51:41.260 done um james white did eventually call me and we had a good conversation and and i appreciate that

01:51:48.980 we still disagree there's still probably going to be some some beef here and there back and forth

01:51:54.260 i wish there wasn't i love james white but but he did actually reach out to me he did call me

01:51:59.540 it was a couple weeks after the fact i wish it had been sooner but he did and he was kind he was

01:52:05.560 reasonable i'd like to see some more things publicly but he was kind and i appreciate that

01:52:11.720 uh doug wilson i called him and he was kind so there were two guys that um that there were phone

01:52:18.240 calls um with doug wilson and james white still some some differences and disagreements but um

01:52:25.980 but they were both kind um but um but but david just he james white and doug make a little bit

01:52:35.140 more sense because they shared the tobias video i would argue there was some obligation

01:52:39.560 you know and and preferably a call maybe before you know sharing the video um but but in the case

01:52:47.280 of uh david reese he didn't share the video he didn't he didn't owe me he didn't he didn't mess

01:52:53.580 up he didn't sin against me um and he's giving our ministry money to promote to promote his you

01:53:00.340 know the reese fund and armored republic and uh so he could have just backed out like we we benefit

01:53:07.100 more with this this relationship i would argue we benefit more um from david reese and he benefits

01:53:12.760 from us i want it to be a symbiotic you know mutual like so i'm looking for ways um to to

01:53:19.520 give as much benefit as I can to that good Christian man as he deserves. And so I'm working

01:53:26.440 on that because I want it to be a mutual relationship. And I don't want... Because

01:53:29.580 sometimes guys like David Reese, I'll be honest, he probably would never say this because he's a

01:53:37.140 good man. But I bet you, if I had to guess, I bet you most of his relationships, it's people who

01:53:43.200 take more than they give to him. Yeah. When you're at that position.

01:53:46.480 Yeah, he's rich, he's successful, he's smart, and he's generous. And I bet he gets taken

01:53:55.080 advantage of. And I'd like for our ministry not to be a ministry that takes advantage of David

01:54:00.060 Reese. But all that being said, my point is, so David Reese is an example on the positive

01:54:05.220 side of the aisle that I think very highly of. We do have some differences, but we have a lot

01:54:10.460 in common and um but so much of it i i think like and this is why and i know it's like it gets old

01:54:17.700 it's like post-war consensus you're made up word you know or whatever like um i don't know how to

01:54:22.920 describe i don't know how to describe it because it's not it's not just on the basis of the

01:54:29.060 doctrinal differences right there's something else going on there there really is and i don't know

01:54:36.100 how exactly to make it tangible and how to describe it but there's an ethos there's a there's a vibe

01:54:42.200 there's um a sentiment there's it's it's it's not just theological it's political and cultural

01:54:50.860 and psychological i think it's generational i think that's a big part i think it's a generational

01:54:56.000 divide because at the end of the day it's not just like uh well the the the actual tenets of

01:55:02.840 of the theological tenets of theonomy are um wholly incompatible with um with christian

01:55:10.580 nationalism and it's really that's not what it is and i think that's why on the face of it just

01:55:16.360 looking at it theologically that's why canon i was perfectly comfortable publishing steven wolf's

01:55:20.960 book but then as time goes on now we're two years in it feels like this big divide and i don't think

01:55:26.200 it's the substantive tenets of the theological differences. I think it's more than that. It's

01:55:33.080 this intangible, whether you call it the post-war consensus or whatever, but David Rees doesn't have

01:55:39.100 it. He doesn't have it as much. Yes, he is a theonomist, and sometimes I think, like many

01:55:44.660 theonomists, he's overly idealistic, more idealistic than I would be willing to be. I'm

01:55:48.860 probably more of a realist, and he's more of an idealist. And when it comes to, when the rubber

01:55:56.000 meets the road and me and him are arguing about something charitably as friends but we're arguing

01:56:00.180 about i remember there was one moment we were sitting around a fire at the ogden conference

01:56:04.480 and he was saying well i think this could happen and this can and i remember i i objected and i

01:56:09.480 said david but from a practical standpoint what would be the incentive i don't think people i

01:56:14.400 think you may be right but i don't think you're going to be able to get enough people on your

01:56:17.600 side in order practically to to get the victory to get the substantive substantial win that you

01:56:23.200 need to get in order for that idea to work i said like what is uh what is going to win people over

01:56:28.560 and i remember his answer and a lot of people you know it would be a jesus juke with david i don't

01:56:33.460 think it's a jesus juke i think i genuinely believe he means it and he looked at me and he

01:56:37.620 like leaned forward in his in his chair and he said uh joel what's going to incentivize them

01:56:42.640 is the spirit of god that moves the hearts of men to virtue and i was just like i was like well

01:56:49.140 well damn yeah that's convicting you know but that i can't argue with you that falls in line

01:56:54.600 with my theory and my theory is um theonomists for a long time it's kind of like the republican 0.97

01:57:01.820 party i'm not saying they're like the republicans i'm i'm telling a side story to illustrate the

01:57:06.080 point when newt gingrich came in as a as a young congressman he asked the republican minority

01:57:15.540 leader um he said what's the plan for us to take over and get and get power and the minority leader

01:57:21.840 said to him there is no plan we're the minority and we're pretty happy doing that and we just we

01:57:27.620 give them some concessions they throw us some concessions and he from that you know whatever

01:57:31.640 you think of newt greenrich he decided from that point on i'm taking over the republican party and

01:57:35.580 we're going to win and you know what they did have some victories under his leadership the point is

01:57:39.580 I think that there's a sentiment where theonomists have had to propose ideals from the Bible that had no chance of getting traction in the practical world, in the world that they lived in, that you kind of resign yourself to, well, this is just an idea out there.

01:57:57.260 And I think the Christian nationalists are willing to say, and maybe to their detriment,

01:58:02.000 maybe not, this goes to the abolition versus non-abolition argument, we are willing to

01:58:07.000 deal with reality.

01:58:07.780 And reality means maybe not having the ideal situation right away, but we're willing to

01:58:11.760 work towards that as a step towards another one.

01:58:13.820 And part of it is we're willing to deal with reality, but the criticism is dealing with

01:58:19.000 reality means making perceived or real compromises on the ultimate good to make an advance in

01:58:25.880 that direction.

01:58:26.760 Right.

01:58:27.260 that's well said if you're training for a marathon imagine you hurt yourself you have to do surgery

01:58:31.980 you have to take eight weeks off you could think like wait this is so counterproductive eight weeks

01:58:35.840 off the training yeah i'm preparing to run this thing i can't take that time off i need to be out

01:58:39.800 there but you can have temporary setbacks to achieve a long-term goal and it's not the same

01:58:44.920 as a moral compromise it's not the same as i'll cheat on my wife just once that's moral and that's

01:58:49.400 a compromise and that's off limits but politics is the art of the possible what's the goal how do i

01:58:54.740 practically function to get there and does it take

01:58:56.880 going the long way around on this one

01:58:58.740 does it take a setback here that's the difference

01:59:01.080 well said

01:59:02.140 were there any other questions that we

01:59:04.480 had that we wanted to get to

01:59:06.540 oh

01:59:08.980 I answered someone

01:59:10.820 I just actually messaged someone

01:59:12.300 an answer to this the other day actually they were

01:59:14.620 Slavic and they asked about this

01:59:16.180 the question was in last week's chat too

01:59:18.480 yes that's who I messaged

01:59:19.860 I'm an American with a Slavic heritage and I love both America

01:59:22.800 and the land of my grandparents I've been wondering

01:59:24.680 about how i can honor my fathers and be an american first any pointers uh it and probably

01:59:29.860 the tension is how do i you know the language the heritage the customs the habits the familiarity

01:59:34.600 that i have with my parents my grandparents how do i then bridge that and i think what you do is

01:59:38.600 you decide that um as far as it goes honoring your parents absolutely attend any type of dinner do

01:59:44.240 any type of custom that honors them and they agree with but then in your own home as you're going

01:59:48.760 forward making it distinctly american so in your home maybe the only language spoken is english

01:59:53.940 You could teach your children maybe, maybe you're bilingual, you know a certain language,

01:59:58.380 you know Spanish, you could teach it to them, they could continue it, but you make the conscious

02:00:01.640 choice and say, well, no, actually, we're American, and we speak English, not forcing 0.97

02:00:06.320 on your parents, not telling them, I'm not going to speak this language around here,

02:00:09.860 we only want to hear this, but saying, at this point, as far as I'm concerned, and what

02:00:13.500 I'm passing down to the next generation, it's going to be distinctly American, it's going

02:00:17.200 to be the language, it's going to be the holidays, it's going to be the values, it's going to

02:00:20.560 be the vacations instead of vacationing back to maybe this land that we came from we vacation to

02:00:25.260 another part of the united states or in 2025 you go to iowa and the great american fair right making

02:00:30.780 the choice not necessarily impressing on your parents and dishonoring them because they love

02:00:35.020 their land and they love their heritage not dishonoring them but at the same time not

02:00:39.200 continuing and making a future generation kind of make that break and really commit to assimilating

02:00:43.580 i would tell esteeming stories of your parents um things that make your children's grandparents

02:00:49.000 look honorable and tell stories about how they were honorable and um how they you know maybe

02:00:55.160 maybe part of their story was they put money aside or worked extra hard so that the move

02:01:00.140 could be made for a lady you know you you honor the things that you can honor yep um and they're

02:01:04.900 all true yeah yeah praise god for real real quick uh cam cameron stevenson said um thanks striker

02:01:11.560 they were going back and forth in the chat i thought joel was more of a specific uh i think

02:01:16.280 special revelation guy than a natural law guy um at least that's what i heard him saying back in

02:01:22.420 2021 that's true um i guess his position has shifted a bit so i would say on that like that's

02:01:28.820 why i still am willing to wear the the moniker of general equity theonomist um yeah i think

02:01:34.720 wherever uh wherever scripture speaks then you go with scripture um so that hasn't changed for me

02:01:41.080 um cameron stevenson that's a good good question um i'm i'm always going to side with special

02:01:47.260 revelation um wherever the bible speaks clearly you know i've used like the analogy like

02:01:53.240 i i would rather use exodus 20 than you know the migration of certain you know patterns of deer

02:01:59.100 um like i you know like and sabbath laws yeah like and one of the things to consider when when

02:02:05.380 it comes to natural revelation natural revelation is god speaking um but the bible is infallible

02:02:11.700 and um and natural revelation you have to remember that nature itself is under a curse

02:02:17.700 so nature um is not totally destroyed uh by sin um it still remains intact in the same way that

02:02:26.200 human beings a vestige if it was totally destroyed then humans would no longer maintain the image of

02:02:31.460 god the imago dei the reason why the image of god we theologically speaking would say it's been

02:02:36.540 tarnished by sin right um but a vestige of the image of god remains intact even for uh for all

02:02:43.500 people even for the unregenerate so every time a child is knit together by god in their mother's

02:02:47.540 womb um they they bear the image of god from from the womb and uh so the image of god uh remains

02:02:55.480 despite the fall, despite living in a post-lapsarian world, so nature does still speak

02:03:01.780 true things about God and about the world that he's made and about human nature and about God's

02:03:07.600 design and purpose for human beings and how to flourish and all those things. But nature, it

02:03:15.260 speaks um it speaks truthfully but um there is uh sometimes both an ambiguity uh that exists within

02:03:26.440 natural revelation um and that's not to say that you know we we hold to the perspicuity of scripture

02:03:31.560 which means clarity not all scripture we believe scripture is sufficiently clear not all passages

02:03:37.260 of scripture are um equally clear so there are some passages of scripture that are more difficult

02:03:42.720 to understand, but even the most difficult passages of Scripture when it comes to perspicuity

02:03:47.040 and understanding them and interpreting them rightly, I think ours still maintain more clarity

02:03:52.940 than natural revelation as a whole. So natural revelation speaks truthfully about God, even

02:03:59.100 though nature itself is under a curse. But I don't believe it speaks with the same degree of clarity

02:04:04.060 as special revelation. And because of the curse of sin, there are certain points and certain moments

02:04:10.080 and certain aspects of nature that can steer us,

02:04:13.340 man's reason, unregenerated,

02:04:15.800 can steer us in the wrong direction.

02:04:17.420 So as a general equity theonomist,

02:04:19.440 I'm always going to prefer special revelation

02:04:21.660 to natural revelation.

02:04:23.220 But my point in being more sympathetic

02:04:26.680 towards natural law and embracing natural law,

02:04:29.360 probably to a larger degree than I had in the past,

02:04:31.660 is simply coming to the point

02:04:33.480 and seeing that within special revelation,

02:04:36.060 there are certain things that are just,

02:04:37.760 they remain unsaid.

02:04:38.980 So like immigration, for instance, I believe from special revelation, we can ascertain that a Christian nation should require a Christian profession.

02:04:49.680 It should require that the people actually want to be, they're Christian, they want to be American, they want to hold, you know, your people shall be my people.

02:04:58.940 Your God, my God.

02:05:00.200 I'm going to love Yahweh, and I'm also going to love Israel. 0.99

02:05:03.620 I'm saying goodbye to false pagan gods. 1.00

02:05:06.660 I'm not bringing them with me. 0.99

02:05:07.920 But I'm also saying goodbye to my people, the Moabites, and I'm actually going to be an Israelite. 0.97

02:05:14.200 And my grandchildren will experience the full benefits of having assimilated over generations of being full Israelites.

02:05:20.480 I'm thinking of Ruth. 0.98

02:05:22.440 So Christian profession would be necessary for immigration, desiring to actually hold to America's history and its customs and its culture and its values. 1.00

02:05:31.320 Wanting to be an American would be necessary for immigrating here. 1.00

02:05:34.740 doing it legally going through legal channels that would be necessary abolishing within a 0.60

02:05:41.160 theonomic concession and looking at special revelation you can make an argument for abolishing

02:05:44.720 the welfare state and so that would get rid of the financial incentives of we want to just free

02:05:50.400 money and a handout so you can do all those things but here's the deal people don't just

02:05:55.180 move to america because they want free money it is it is entirely possible that if america really

02:06:01.620 became the the full ideal christian nation that it could be and that i believe eventually it will

02:06:06.440 be um what it what if in in the nations flocking to mount zion all the nations being saved in this

02:06:11.720 great post-millennial hope what if america beats the rest of the nations by a thousand years right

02:06:16.340 and and america doesn't have welfare anymore but but what it does have is a christian nation is

02:06:21.000 safety it has safety uh much lower levels of crime and the and so you don't come and get a free check

02:06:26.880 But what you do get is economic opportunity for a fair wage and safety from mobs and gangs and violence and war and all these things.

02:06:34.700 Well, it would still be appealing. 0.94

02:06:36.040 So then what happens if America Christianizes a thousand years before all the other nations on the planet? 0.72

02:06:41.320 And what happens in that conception, which is possible if four billion people, half the planet, wants to move to America and they make a Christian profession and they're willing to go through legal channels and they're willing to get a job and try to work hard.

02:06:54.040 and they want to start loving apple pie

02:06:56.620 and George Washington and the heritage

02:06:58.060 and forsaking their people,

02:06:59.320 your people will now be my people, 0.98

02:07:01.140 your God, my God,

02:07:01.960 but four billion people want to do it.

02:07:04.260 The theonomist doesn't have a mechanism to say no.

02:07:07.420 The natural law guy can say,

02:07:09.760 no, nature just doesn't allow for four billion people

02:07:12.180 to immigrate to one country.

02:07:14.100 And the Bible doesn't speak to that one way or the other.

02:07:18.900 The Bible does, it does speak to you. 0.83

02:07:22.040 Well, you need to, if you're going to be in Israel,

02:07:23.540 don't know false gods so you need to be a christian and you need to come legally and the bible speaks

02:07:27.480 to all that and you need to work hard and all those kinds of things and not get a handout not 0.84

02:07:31.800 get welfare the bible does speak to all those things and it's true that by getting rid of the

02:07:35.620 welfare state and requiring a christian profession that that would mitigate the numbers but if

02:07:39.960 america on on the other hand i think it would also bolster the numbers of people who want to come

02:07:43.940 because it would be safe there's less crime and there's it would flourish economically we would

02:07:49.740 be rich and safe rich and safe are always those are going to be two powerful incentives always

02:07:55.560 throughout all the time for other people to want in it's like you don't get free money but you can

02:08:00.640 work hard and get a job and make 10 times what you're making there and uh nobody's going to steal

02:08:05.740 it from you and there's not violence and mobs and um that is going to be incentivizing to the whole

02:08:12.160 world so you're never going to get rid those things i think the theonomist sometimes is over

02:08:17.500 overly idealistic and wants to say, if we had these things, then that would solve all of our

02:08:22.960 immigration problems. I don't think it would. I actually think that welfare, initially, on the 0.95

02:08:28.380 front end, less people would want to come here. On the back end, over time, America, by doing

02:08:33.520 righteous things, would flourish, and you'd actually even have more people want to come to

02:08:37.200 America. And you can't have four billion people come. You just can't. You have to be able to say

02:08:42.780 no. And theonomists have yet to give me a chapter and verse for how I can say no. But I know from

02:08:51.020 nature and reason you have to be able to say no. So that to me is not, so now I'm a natural law

02:08:58.440 guy, not a general equity guy. No, general equity doesn't speak to it one way or the other. So I'm

02:09:03.000 a guy who's always going to side with special revelation when special revelation speaks to

02:09:06.980 something. And when it doesn't, I'm going to appeal to nature and reason. And to be fair to the natural

02:09:11.600 law guys that we're talking about we're not talking 1700s enlightenment natural law i mean

02:09:16.040 stephen wolfe himself has a whole section on sabbath laws and blasphemy laws that in they're

02:09:21.580 not like the bible has no the the founders of america and the the common law of england was

02:09:27.100 quoting the old testament as its case law like like even those who at that time would would not

02:09:33.480 have known the term theonomy they would have said we look at nature and we look at god's book

02:09:36.960 they would have been some fusion of the two like like these are christian natural law

02:09:42.480 um practitioners or believers and and there's really a lot of overlap um that's why i think

02:09:49.640 joel you've been able to to fit comfortably as a generally equity general equity equity

02:09:55.640 theonomist who looks to the clarity of the word and also says we're not going to be dumb yeah

02:10:02.080 So I don't find attention yet.

02:10:04.600 I've had plenty of theonomists tell me that there must be attention

02:10:07.660 and that I should feel the tension.

02:10:09.220 Somewhere.

02:10:09.760 But I don't feel the tension,

02:10:12.440 and I feel perfectly comfortable in this space

02:10:15.040 that providentially God has carved out for me.

02:10:17.740 And so for the foreseeable future, I plan to remain in this space.

02:10:22.940 And again, back to names and ministries,

02:10:25.840 In this space, I have been permitted to minister alongside Ogden and Stephen Wolf and Isker and CJ and a whole host of individuals on one side of the aisle.

02:10:39.080 And yet I have been increasingly less warmly invited on the theonomist side of the aisle.

02:10:47.740 David Reese would be an exception, but there are others on the theonomist side of the aisle.

02:10:52.860 As I've kind of become more comfortable in this position and more clear in my views,

02:10:58.680 there's one side of the aisle that says, one of us, one of you, and is willing to welcome me

02:11:07.520 warmly in. And then there's another side of the aisle that has felt by the day increasingly

02:11:14.960 further away and so i wish that wasn't the case i wish we could all just get along and be friends

02:11:20.900 and maybe one day by god's grace there'll be you know some robust reconciliation and and maybe that

02:11:26.480 we can't um but in the meantime right now uh the muscular wing of the reformed world

02:11:32.860 um christian nationalist and theonomist are fractured um it's it's fractured and i i don't

02:11:40.460 think it's really i could be wrong but i don't think it's ultimately on the merits of the actual

02:11:44.640 substantive theological distinctions.

02:11:46.800 I think it's more of a generational divide

02:11:49.700 and it's some of the intangibles.

02:11:51.240 And I think the post-war consensus

02:11:52.600 actually is a good descriptor for explaining why,

02:11:56.000 as much as people think they don't like it.

02:12:00.300 So, all right.

02:12:01.580 Great.

02:12:03.420 Thanks, everyone, for tuning in.

02:12:04.640 Yeah, thanks for tuning in.

02:12:05.560 We'll catch you before Thanksgiving next week

02:12:07.260 with, Lord willing, Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

02:12:10.080 Oh, yeah, so we're going to get free tickets.

02:12:12.980 uh so online we i saw like uh they said that um uh if you're anti-semitic you get a free ticket

02:12:20.600 to bonhoeffer bonhoeffer so me and wes were joking we're like hey dude let's go get let's

02:12:25.540 go get our free ticket a free movie we earned them yeah we earned them um but no we're not

02:12:30.240 going to do that because one we're not really anti-semitic probably not going to do that we're

02:12:33.520 not going to do it tickets are 15 on a monday no we're not doing it we're going to pay because

02:12:37.540 this is why because uh anybody who gets that free ticket i guarantee that list somehow is

02:12:42.420 They're going to wind up with the ADL and all sorts of crazy.

02:12:46.240 It's directly the Southern Poverty Law Center.

02:12:47.800 It's just name, address, phone number, social.

02:12:51.480 They'll be like, oh, we've already got this Facebook number.

02:12:52.680 They're going to come after our response and shut it down.

02:12:55.300 Yep, shut it down.

02:12:56.040 But you think they're not on that list?

02:12:57.340 I know.

02:12:57.940 I know I'm on that list.

02:12:58.880 But anyways, no, we're not anti-Semitic in the sense of actually hating Jews and wishing them harm.

02:13:05.360 um uh sadly if if it's the adl's definition of anti-semitism then everybody yeah sure is

02:13:11.960 anti-semitic so anyways um but yeah we we plan on watching bonhoeffer and paying for our tickets

02:13:17.340 because we don't want to be added to a list and uh and then and then yeah it'll be it'll be uh

02:13:24.860 we're going to do a full movie review and um and sadly just crush a lot of boomers hopes and dreams

02:13:32.140 i've been reading cost of discipleship just to be like informed like honestly engage with him

02:13:36.000 he's a little bit smarter than martin luther king jr he uh doesn't fall into some of the

02:13:40.460 mistakes to say it quite as explicitly but his pietism is poisonous yeah it really is he denied

02:13:46.000 i mean he didn't believe in a literal virgin birth he didn't believe in a literal um resurrection

02:13:50.400 bodily resurrection he was very much influenced by carl bart in terms of his hermeneutic and his

02:13:56.160 view of inerrancy, that the scripture became scripture in your heart and in your mind in a

02:14:02.760 mystical, emotional kind of way as you're upon reading, but not actually in its written form.

02:14:08.080 So Bonhoeffer was terrible. Bonhoeffer was truly terrible. And so we're going to talk about

02:14:14.760 Bonhoeffer next week and just absolutely just burst every boomer bubble that you could possibly

02:14:23.540 fine all right thank you guys uh bonhoeffer is boomer fuel that's what you said wes hey he he

02:14:29.120 really is like he's profoundly influential in american evangelicalism of course because of his

02:14:33.460 historical role but he just writes these books that yeah it's pure boomer fuel it sounds so nice

02:14:39.020 it sounds so humble it sounds so rigorous uh but it's not saying anything at all yeah all right

02:14:44.940 so tune in next week uh for us to pour uh cold water on bonhoeffer thanks

02:14:53.540 We'll be right back.

The NXR Podcast - November 21, 2024

THE LIVESTREAM - What Is A Nation？

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