The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - What War are Evangelical Christians In？

00:00:00.000 As Christians, we hear a lot of talk about enemies today.

00:00:08.100 Even last week, our podcast topic was about what it means to hate our enemies and the

00:00:13.380 enemies of Christ. 0.95

00:00:14.380 We hear of the culture war that Christians are supposed to engage in, and we hear of

00:00:20.300 the spiritual war that we are supposed to focus on, and we even hear of the political

00:00:25.680 war that we are unsure of.

00:00:27.660 The questions for today are, what war or wars are evangelical Christians engaged in?

00:00:35.280 What allies do we have?

00:00:37.420 And what tactics should we use?

00:00:40.060 Tune in now.

00:00:50.880 We are.

00:00:51.800 Good afternoon.

00:00:52.460 Welcome.

00:00:52.980 Yep.

00:00:53.200 Good to see you, Michael.

00:00:53.840 So this is one more week with Wesley Todd out of the studio.

00:00:57.960 Is he coming back?

00:00:59.020 Am I right?

00:00:59.500 He's back next Wednesday?

00:01:00.640 Back next Wednesday.

00:01:01.280 Okay, great.

00:01:01.900 And then you're gone.

00:01:02.780 Yeah.

00:01:03.200 So last week it was just me and you, and it was great.

00:01:06.100 And then this week, same thing.

00:01:07.460 And then we're going to have two weeks where it's just me and Wesley.

00:01:11.420 And then it's all three.

00:01:12.700 That's correct.

00:01:13.300 The trio is back.

00:01:14.260 The gang is getting back together.

00:01:14.660 The gang is back together.

00:01:15.420 Yeah, that's right.

00:01:16.320 So what do you got for us today?

00:01:17.280 Well, excited for today's topic.

00:01:19.080 And today's topic really comes just from listening and talking to people, and part of it is a

00:01:26.280 product of the fact that we live in an election year, and so everything is high stakes right

00:01:31.080 now.

00:01:31.780 Part of it is a product of the fact that just kind of this Christian theonomist, Christian

00:01:38.980 nationalist movement, whatever we're calling it.

00:01:41.680 Christendom.

00:01:42.320 Yep, Christendom.

00:01:43.420 Christian nationalism, dissident rights, some guys are...

00:01:46.280 Yep, yep.

00:01:46.660 Yep. And part of it is the fact that more and more people are kind of encountering this idea

00:01:52.360 and reading what people are saying about it. And it leads to an inevitable question. And that

00:01:59.640 question is, what exactly are evangelicals fighting? Right? And so I don't mean, of course,

00:02:08.540 the spiritual battle that we're all in always, right? We put on the spiritual armor of God,

00:02:14.620 we preserve our faith, we preach the gospel, we teach and train our children. That can be part

00:02:20.180 of the physical battle. But what I mean is, what battle for cultural or national issues

00:02:27.640 is it appropriate for evangelicals to engage in? We are told, you know, boycott Target,

00:02:34.120 boycott Bud Light, boycott Planet Fitness. And, you know, there's a sense of don't go to the

00:02:39.980 public library, go to the public library, protest the drag queen story hours, stay home,

00:02:44.220 build your family business, be out in the public square. All of these ideas, messages, tactics,

00:02:51.340 as it were, are kind of bubbling around in the dissident right, the Christian nationalist movement.

00:02:56.580 And what I hear from people and what I even feel myself is, what is exactly the main battle that

00:03:04.420 we're in? Like, I could spend a lot of time fighting this or that front or being involved

00:03:11.760 in this or that effort or this or that movement in the name of Christian nationalism and spreading

00:03:16.660 Christ's reign through my nation. But what I was hoping we could do today is spend a little time

00:03:21.620 talking about what is the battle that we're in. Overall, what is the battle that we're in?

00:03:26.640 And hopefully my goal with this is that we as Christians would be able to be more strategic.

00:03:33.080 It's not that we don't want to commit our efforts and time to the battles that we're in,

00:03:38.900 But I think a lot of us want to be wise and steward, or efforts, or time, or money, even our outrage, appropriately.

00:03:46.260 We want to be strategic.

00:03:47.180 We want to point it in the same direction that other people are pointing it so that we can be more effective.

00:03:51.780 Right, and you can only sustainably and effectively fight.

00:03:56.720 I would argue, I've always kind of used this mentality of about three battles simultaneously.

00:04:02.900 uh if you fight uh on you know 17 different battlefronts simultaneously then uh what ends

00:04:09.800 up happening is it's not that you you know you might partially win 17 of it like you end up

00:04:14.720 losing all of them you know and i i said when i spoke at the uh new christian conference in ogden

00:04:19.800 i said that you know evangelicals a lot of what we've done in the past you know recent decades is

00:04:24.160 instead of opting to win somewhere, we opted for losing everywhere. And so we spread our forces

00:04:34.240 too thin. Real quick, so great topic for today. I'm excited for us to get into it. Quick shout

00:04:38.960 out for Deception's Demise. Deception's Demise, he said, first live stream attendance, glad to be

00:04:44.740 here. So glad to have you. Glad you were able to make it. Euclid just popped up talking about Doug

00:04:50.740 Wilson's interview in Escondido yesterday. No, I have not watched it. I hope to hopefully watch

00:04:56.520 that sometime soon. I just want to give shout outs to guys in the comment section. We appreciate you

00:05:00.860 guys hopping on here live. Nicholas Bydel said GM. I don't know where you live, Nicholas, but

00:05:06.660 the GM has passed, at least where we are here in the great nation of Texas. It's bacon and eggs

00:05:12.120 place somewhere in the world. Right. So GA, I'll give you a GA. Good afternoon. Striker just hopped

00:05:17.220 on here. So if you guys can do us a favor and give us a thumbs up. It's one of the best ways

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00:05:30.920 of people. So right now we've got 57 people watching live. We usually hit anywhere from

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00:05:52.100 to hopefully thousands of people.

00:05:54.220 So thank you guys for tuning in.

00:05:55.560 Okay.

00:05:56.660 So what I did for research this week

00:05:59.280 was I looked at some of the different types of wars

00:06:01.540 that have been fought throughout history.

00:06:03.160 And I'm hoping to maybe just glean

00:06:06.920 a little bit of insight from the types of wars

00:06:09.280 that people have generally recognized

00:06:11.200 that nations and armies have fought in the past.

00:06:13.320 So Nathan, if you've got that graphic,

00:06:15.280 Let's put that up on the screen now.

00:06:19.840 So there are more types of wars than this, but these are the ones that I thought were somewhat related to what we see in our time.

00:06:27.800 And obviously, I should point out, I don't have to, but it's good to point out.

00:06:34.300 When we talk about war right now, we're talking the culture war.

00:06:37.600 We're not talking grab your AK.

00:06:40.340 You know, this is the ideological war, the war of politics and lawfare and things like that going on in the West and in our nation here in America in particular.

00:06:49.120 So a couple of different types of wars, a two front war or even a multi front war where one nation or army is having to fight off multiple enemies or they're trying to make advances in different types of war.

00:07:01.220 And this gets tricky because you spread yourself thin, kind of like you mentioned earlier, Joel.

00:07:05.200 You're fighting in 17 different places.

00:07:06.700 You can't actually meaningfully engage in any of them.

00:07:10.440 Two-front war.

00:07:11.340 A total war is one that is fought on either the home soil or it's one that requires all the effort of an entire population.

00:07:21.500 So this is different than when you send the army off, they fight a war somewhere else, and then they come back home.

00:07:26.600 A total war involves production. 0.92

00:07:29.920 Women might go to the factory because the men are gone. 0.74

00:07:32.880 World War II was kind of like this, where all of society ended up supporting the war effort, 0.56

00:07:38.300 the Napoleonic Wars. He directed the entire economy of France, like just kind of bankrupted

00:07:43.920 it for the future to support the war effort. So total war is one that involves more than just

00:07:48.400 the soldiers, the generals. It involves the entire populace in all the effort of a nation.

00:07:53.580 We could have a guerrilla war, or this is a style, a tactic in war, where you're not necessarily

00:07:59.060 taking the field in the traditional way. You're sniping from behind cover. You're picking off

00:08:05.120 officers. You're using your home field advantage to plan little raids, little insurrections,

00:08:12.160 things like that. Civil War, which I think bears a lot of similarity to what we see now. And we're

00:08:18.580 familiar with what a Civil War is, so I won't spend too much on that. Proxy War, this would be 0.82

00:08:23.100 vietnam korea where two large powers are really hashing things out between the two of them but

00:08:29.860 they're fighting an actual war over a different issue or over a different piece of land okay and

00:08:35.040 i'm not sure that's what we see here because um i think there are some proxy figures especially on

00:08:41.080 the left but if the church is defending we're defending our home turf here and so i don't know

00:08:45.940 who the conservative proxy would be so i'm not sure we're in a proxy war last two cold war this

00:08:51.340 is where there's just incredible build up. It's leading up to a war. The sides are very clearly

00:08:59.660 delineated. There's a side that some people are on, a side that other people are on. They're

00:09:05.080 trying to outmatch each other strategically, outpace each other ideologically. I think we're

00:09:10.980 past this in America. I think that the idea of the cold civil war or the cold ideological war

00:09:16.020 has been happening for a long time, but with arresting Trump, finding him guilty, the assassination

00:09:22.280 attempt, I think we're actually past the Cold War. I think the shots have been fired as it were,

00:09:27.660 not physical bullets again, but the actual lawfare, ideological shots, cancellations,

00:09:32.780 things like that. Last one is war of conquest or crusade. And it bears mentioning here that we need

00:09:41.320 to remember, especially if you're of a post-millennial bent, that the Christian church

00:09:46.220 is always engaged in a war of conquest. I mean, that is the story of history, right, where Christ

00:09:51.240 is marching progressively through time, nations, peoples, ideologies, demonic powers, and using his

00:09:59.620 body, the church, like in Romans 16, it talks about how Christ is crushing the head of Satan

00:10:08.640 under the feet of the church in Rome, right?

00:10:11.580 And so there is a sense where we are always

00:10:13.700 in a war of conquest,

00:10:15.300 but what we feel a little bit discombobulated about right now

00:10:18.440 is the conquest is, you know,

00:10:21.700 not so much an advancing conquest right now.

00:10:24.820 We're having to hold defensible positions.

00:10:27.380 So Joel, as we go through those ideas

00:10:29.140 of different types of war,

00:10:30.780 my contention in the article was that

00:10:32.620 in a lot of ways, we're in a civil war

00:10:34.240 where America has been something in the past

00:10:37.180 and we are facing an invasion of ideology of worldview of uh you know you can you can say

00:10:43.480 of a lot of things and there are sides i might maybe more than two sides maybe it's not quite

00:10:49.660 as simple as just two sides but we in america at least or you could say in the west there are

00:10:55.620 multiple competing ideologies and um one of them is going to win and one of them is going to lose

00:11:01.560 right and so uh we in a sense we're in kind of a death match where um we're fighting on our own

00:11:07.460 home turf our kids are exposed to it our families are exposed to it it involves more than just um

00:11:14.500 you know the the elites it involves our own jobs people get fired people lose positions tenures

00:11:18.920 publishing contracts um public reputation it is a war going on in our midst between people who

00:11:26.140 formerly were the same nation or the same perspective, even within the church, on the

00:11:31.720 same side of being conservative, faithful, biblical, preformed Christians, now taking

00:11:37.180 different sides. So all that to say is my perspective in the article was we're in a

00:11:42.100 civil war. Yeah.

00:11:43.720 Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think civil war, but, you know, there are multiple, probably

00:11:51.560 sub positions subgroups within each of the two major sides um so there's a sense in which you

00:11:59.140 know like for instance you know i've said before um and you know in regards to the question um

00:12:05.700 is there is there uh really a war on whiteness right this is something that was you know going

00:12:11.840 on on twitter and continues to but a few you know maybe a month ago a few weeks ago uh there were

00:12:18.080 guys who were saying uh there's not really a war on whiteness it's just a war on christianity

00:12:23.660 but whiteness historically you know like chrysidom took root in a lot of anglo

00:12:30.740 cultures and uh you know european countries and america and all these countries were predominantly

00:12:37.140 white and so therefore you know there's a war on whiteness but um but it's not really a war 0.55

00:12:43.360 on whiteness per se it's really a war on christ and and that war against christ uh christ has been

00:12:50.320 most clearly represented throughout christendom as of recently you know the recent uh centuries

00:12:55.520 by white western nations and so therefore there's this war on whiteness um whereas i i just i think

00:13:01.880 that that's too simplistic and so i would disagree and say no there um there really is a war on white

00:13:06.360 people um our world really does hate uh white people uh christian or not and i don't think you

00:13:12.680 know, for the unbelieving white person who's hated, um, in our, you know, under our current 0.84

00:13:17.100 regime. Um, I don't think he's, um, exclusively hated because, uh, he has, you know, uh, some

00:13:25.660 reminiscent, you know, uh, you know, element of Christianity, even though he himself is

00:13:32.060 unregenerate and not a practicing Christian. Um, no, I, I think he's, he's just hated, um,

00:13:37.600 because he's white. So I, I think, you know, you don't have one war on Christianity and then, 0.99

00:13:41.720 And then that just happens to look like a war on whiteness because Christianity for the last few centuries has been very white. 0.78

00:13:49.220 But no, I think you have two, like a Venn diagram, you have two distinct circles, two distinct wars, a war on whiteness, a war on Christianity. 0.66

00:13:55.900 And there is absolutely a lot of overlap, but I do believe that there are two distinct wars.

00:14:01.580 So all that being said, as it pertains to right now in our country with this, what I would consider a cold, I do think it's still cold in the sense that we don't have armed militia, you know, everyone's not taking up arms and fighting in a literal, physical sense.

00:14:17.500 But it is certainly a cold war, I think you're right, that's heating up and bullets.

00:14:22.160 It's more than just ideology and lawfare.

00:14:24.340 Bullets are actually starting to fly.

00:14:25.840 I mean, we had, you know, an assassination attempt on a former president.

00:14:29.220 um and so um you know crime is increasing murder is increasing and so um so i think we we have a

00:14:36.500 um a cold war getting hot um and and that's kind of maybe the stage of war the type of war i think

00:14:44.220 is a civil war but with all civil wars including the civil war historically here in our our nation

00:14:49.160 um there are two major sides like the south you know the confederates versus the north

00:14:53.720 um in the union but um i think you know it's a traditional you know christian uh way of life

00:15:01.540 and thinking versus you know this this neo-marxist progressive uh you know globalism um i i think

00:15:08.620 that those are you know define the the two sides in a general sense but there are factions and

00:15:13.600 subgroups uh within them so like for instance on the conservative side those who are fighting for

00:15:19.200 a more traditional way of life and some of those Christian values that we have historically held to

00:15:26.260 as a nation, there are sub-factions within that. So, for instance, one would be there's the

00:15:34.900 Christian versus progressive war that's going on, and those are the two big sides. That's like

00:15:39.680 north and south. But then subdivided within, let's say the south, for instance, let's say

00:15:44.360 you know, uh, this, this Christian conservative side, um, there's, I think there's still also

00:15:50.320 a war of like, okay, we all want Christian values, um, but do we want the post-war consensus

00:15:55.220 Christian values, Christian values as espoused by modern day theologians, you know, in the last

00:16:00.900 few decades, or do we want, um, more historic, old, uh, traditional Christian values? Like, um,

00:16:08.500 Do we want the Christian values of Calvin, or do we want the Christian values of John

00:16:17.500 Piper? 0.88

00:16:18.200 Right.

00:16:18.600 You know, and so I do think that there is, so even for those who are on the same major

00:16:23.940 side of the two major sides of, you know, the progressive godless side versus the, you

00:16:29.220 know, traditional Christian side, even within the traditional Christian side, there is,

00:16:33.840 you know, minor skirmishes, you know, intramural skirmishes with each other. Are we trying to get

00:16:41.560 back to, you know, the 1600s? Do we want to get back to Cotton Mather, you know, or do we just

00:16:49.200 want to get back to, you know, the 1980s? Right. You know, and then on, you know, on the progressive

00:16:56.560 side, the anti-Christian side, there are, they too have intramural skirmishes. Like, there are,

00:17:02.240 you know skirmishes there are intramural debates and fights uh between is it you know uh clinton's

00:17:11.260 pelosi's you know biden uh uh versus the squad you know aoc and ilhan omar and you know like

00:17:20.420 there's there's a debate even amongst them of like how right how progressive do we actually

00:17:26.200 want to be they all want to be you know very progressive um but uh how progressive do we

00:17:31.760 want to be and that also you know brings up the issue of israel for instance like i i think that

00:17:36.380 um a big reason why um you know like uh josh josh shapiro was passed over in pennsylvania

00:17:42.800 um you know and opting for tim walls in minnesota is you know i think a number of factors but one

00:17:49.500 of the big ones is that uh you know that joshua shapiro has been pro-israel right that he's a jew

00:17:55.620 and has, you know, distinctly pro-Israel remarks on record from the past.

00:18:01.900 And as much as he tried to, you know, apologize for those remarks and walk them back.

00:18:07.160 And I mean, yeah, I kind of feel bad for the guy.

00:18:09.460 Like, I mean, the guy really denounced his Jewishness, you know, 0.99

00:18:14.820 and it was like, no, never mind, you know, Israel sucks. 0.99

00:18:17.640 And I kind of hate myself, you know. 0.97

00:18:19.220 As much as he tried to do that, it wasn't enough to appease the anti-Israel-Palestinian faction that's rising within the Democratic Party.

00:18:34.920 And so they have their own inner skirmishes, you know, and whether it be on, you know, Israel and then we have our, you know, as conservatives, inner, you know, mural skirmishes, Israel being on our side, too.

00:18:49.620 You have, you know, guys on the right who are like, I'm not sure Israel is our greatest ally. 0.77

00:18:56.120 You know, I would be one of those guys.

00:18:57.500 I don't think that we need to send billions of dollars to Israel. 0.99

00:19:00.620 I don't think that Israel is our greatest ally. 0.54

00:19:02.320 I think that Israel's influence on America has been largely negative. 0.99

00:19:06.800 I really do.

00:19:08.240 I'm not saying that Israel should be wiped off the map.

00:19:10.940 I think they're a sovereign nation state.

00:19:13.460 They deserve the right to defend themselves.

00:19:15.660 They do not have a right, though, to our sons and daughters.

00:19:19.200 Sadly, daughters would be included these days in the potential of a draft. 0.94

00:19:22.940 And so, no, I don't think that our posterity should go and bleed out and die in the Middle East for Israel.

00:19:30.900 although I do think that they are a legitimate, valid nation-state. 0.77

00:19:34.820 And for the record, I'm not saying that they came about in a legitimate fashion.

00:19:39.200 I'm not saying—you have to realize that most nations that exist today exist because of some kind of means.

00:19:49.020 And their introduction, when they first, you know, were forming and being, you know, concentrated as a nation, there were a million different questionable variables, you know.

00:20:04.520 So, but at a certain point, and we've talked about this before, but I call it the providence factor, right?

00:20:10.580 So, like, I don't think that Biden won our election.

00:20:13.580 I don't.

00:20:14.960 But I do think that all the scriptures that talk about, you know, pray for the emperor, you know, honor the king, those kinds of things, I think that that does apply for Christians in these United States towards, you know, your current leaders.

00:20:29.120 Meaning that at a certain point, even if somebody came in unethically, at a certain point, they are, for all intents and purposes, your leader. 0.89

00:20:37.920 And so all that being said, back to Israel, I think that it was a mistake. 0.97

00:20:41.840 I think it was a massive mistake to take modern Jewish people and drop them in a sea of Islam. 1.00

00:20:50.820 I think that you are never going to have peace. 1.00

00:20:53.160 That was a recipe for unending, constant war.

00:20:56.860 I don't think it will ever end, and I would like to see America out of it.

00:21:02.020 So I think that was a bad decision.

00:21:03.680 That said, it doesn't matter.

00:21:05.560 In the providence of God, the decision was made.

00:21:07.920 It's been 80 years since then.

00:21:09.840 and uh and israel is for all intents and purposes uh they are a legitimate nation state today and

00:21:16.440 therefore they have all the rights of a legitimate nation state and so so so long as and i'm not

00:21:21.360 saying that they are or they aren't but so long as they are adhering to uh the elements of just

00:21:26.120 war theory and defending you know their their own citizenship um then i i think they absolutely have

00:21:31.200 a right to do that they do not have um uh we don't have an obligation as a foreign entity to be

00:21:37.100 involved and they don't have a right as a foreign entity to have personal apac handlers for every

00:21:42.520 single gop you know uh candidate except for thomas massey i think that that's absolutely insane so

00:21:47.200 all that being said and uh on the right you know you've got ben shapiro and uh and dennis prager

00:21:54.620 right and um and then you've got uh guys who are saying uh no we agree with you on some things

00:22:02.580 you know um and we appreciate some of your work um but uh but we vehemently disagree on on other

00:22:09.640 things so um so i think those are the two main so i would say civil war is the type of war that

00:22:13.680 we're currently in uh cold war getting warm uh getting quite warm is the stage of war that we're

00:22:19.800 at uh in terms of the civil war like like all civil wars you have two main factions two main

00:22:25.020 sides north and south in this case you know christian progressive uh but then within the

00:22:29.580 progressive. I think you have intramural, smaller subgroups and factions in part on the issue of

00:22:37.720 Israel. And then with the Christian side, the more traditional side, you have some intramural

00:22:45.900 debates, and part of that is about Israel. But in a larger sense, I think it's bigger than just

00:22:50.220 Israel. I think one of the main intramural debates, if we had two subsections of the

00:22:56.540 conservative Christian side. I would say our two subsections are Christian conservatives

00:23:01.520 who basically believe that nobody has been morally correct until 1940, and then those

00:23:13.580 who actually think that 1940 in the post-war consensus was actually a step back. And that's

00:23:21.160 the debate that you see even between sadly theonomist um and guys you know um some of the

00:23:26.580 natural law guys is if we're talking about the raw theology um i i uh have more in common with

00:23:33.860 the theonomist as a general equity theonomist um and so i find my home theologically more with that

00:23:39.080 side unfortunately though um the theonomist in not not each and every individual but in general

00:23:45.900 On the whole, the theonomists tend to be the boomer post-war consensus guys, and a lot of the Stephen Wolf natural law guys are guys who have an older frame of mind, the paleoconservative guys who are saying, no, we don't want to just get back to the 1980s and usury, and no, we actually want to go back further.

00:24:10.240 And so we have our intramural fights as well.

00:24:14.380 Well, so Joel, hearing you explain just that makes me realize that this is a complicated

00:24:19.880 issue, right?

00:24:20.620 And that people are right to feel discombobulated and unsure of how to proceed.

00:24:26.540 So we're going to—the rest of the episode today, I have actually just framed kind of

00:24:31.120 some interview questions.

00:24:32.000 I'll chime in on them too, but we're going to try and go through them somewhat quickly

00:24:35.720 about—to try and diagnose where we're at and how Christians should proceed.

00:24:42.180 So we'll take our first break first right now, and then when we come back, we'll start tackling as many of these questions about the war that we're in and how Christians should behave in it on the other side of the break.

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00:27:16.740 All right, welcome back. 0.71

00:27:18.060 So we're talking about what is the battle that evangelicals are engaged in,

00:27:23.640 and how should we prioritize, strategize, be intentional with how we live.

00:27:28.980 And, you know, the Christian mentality that we've heard, even for a long time,

00:27:35.420 is we ought to have a wartime mentality. 0.91

00:27:37.800 Now, usually that's been applied to this spiritual battle that we're in, and yet it is a good

00:27:43.160 phrase. 0.96

00:27:43.780 If we are in a war, the question is what war we're in, but if we're in a war, we should

00:27:48.180 have a wartime mentality, right?

00:27:50.120 So the first question, and this is the most kind of philosophical question that I want

00:27:56.400 to ask here, Joel, is what is the difference between our battle against spiritual forces,

00:28:02.520 the Christian battle of the centuries, and our current battle against societal forces that want

00:28:09.440 to eliminate Christianity from Western civilization. In other words, is the battle 0.68

00:28:16.380 for a nation or for a civilization a legitimate war that Christians ought to enter in? Do they 0.86

00:28:23.460 have permission, or even should they enter into that kind of a war?

00:28:27.920 Yeah, not only permission, but an obligation. So my answer is a resounding yes. Real quick for the algorithm, we got a bunch of guys who have just tuned in. We appreciate it. Thanks for tuning into the show. Go ahead and help us out. Give us a thumbs up. Help us with the algorithm. Let's get it out to as many people as possible.

00:28:44.480 So, Michael, the question that you're posing is basically like what I did earlier in saying, okay, there's a war for the defense and expansion of Christianity, and to pose that in the negative in regards to our opponents, there's a war against Christianity.

00:29:03.100 And then the question is, is there a war against Christianity and therefore a war against whiteness? 0.51

00:29:09.200 Because in the recent, at least the last 500 years and arguably the last thousand years, going back to King Alfred and maybe even before, that Christendom has been dominant in Western civilizations that have predominantly been white civilizations. 0.66

00:29:24.380 So there's really just a war against Christianity, and therefore, you know, there's a war against whiteness because Christianity has taken root and had so much success in predominantly white cultures and countries. 0.99

00:29:37.320 My position, as I stated earlier, is no, I think that's true. 0.92

00:29:41.960 There's a truth there, but I don't think that that is the most helpful rhetoric in framing it in the most accurate fashion.

00:29:48.200 I think there are actually not one but two distinct wars with, I would say, you know, an 80% overlap.

00:29:53.880 It's a significant overlap in these two wars, but I think that it's helpful to think of

00:30:00.320 two actual distinct wars, not just one.

00:30:02.760 One war on Christianity, and then one being a war on whiteness.

00:30:06.100 And now you're basically reframing the question and saying, so with two distinct wars, instead

00:30:12.360 of whiteness, you're just kind of subbing in Western civ. 0.56

00:30:14.920 So Western civilization, tradition, history, culture, and then again, Christianity. 0.73

00:30:20.760 Or if we have viewers who live in another nation, you know, is it valid to fight for the soul of your nation, wherever it might be?

00:30:28.200 So we'll start with the, you know, specifically as it pertains to Western civilization.

00:30:32.080 So with those, likewise, being two distinct wars, a war on Christianity and then this also, this war on Western civilization, I believe that, one, those are two distinct wars.

00:30:42.480 Same thing, though. 0.77

00:30:43.380 War on Christianity and whiteness, two distinct wars, lots of overlap. 0.79

00:30:46.340 War on Christianity and Western civilization, two distinct wars, lots of overlap.

00:30:51.480 Certainly, it is permissible and obligatory for the Christian to fight the good fight of faith, to fight for Christianity.

00:31:00.540 It's defense, it's preservation, and it's expansion that the knowledge of the glory of God would fill the whole earth as the waters cover the sea.

00:31:07.540 So certainly, that one is plain in Scripture.

00:31:10.020 is it permissible though for christians to fight for the defense and preservation and even perhaps

00:31:16.600 expansion of western civilization i would say yes not only is it permissible but obligatory

00:31:24.420 and and the reason why is because i see western civilization not perfectly because we're dealing

00:31:31.520 with humans and humans are sinners even christians still sin and so it's imperfect and there are

00:31:37.020 flaws that can be pointed out. But on the whole, big picture, 30,000-foot view, Western civilization

00:31:42.740 is the product of Christendom, and Christendom is the fruit of Christianity. And so I think that in 0.80

00:31:48.780 the same way that we have an obligation, it's not only permissible, but we are morally obligated

00:31:53.600 to defend the Christian faith and Christian doctrine, the Christian gospel, Christian belief,

00:31:59.980 in the same way we're obligated to defend Christianity, I think we have an obligation

00:32:05.040 within the Christian framework to defend all the good fruit that Christianity has brought about.

00:32:13.740 Christianity is what produced Christodom, and Christodom is the story of the West. It is.

00:32:20.840 That's right.

00:32:21.700 That's, I mean, our entire, so it's like, well, that's just, you know, the way that you guys,

00:32:26.620 you know, back in the day with Robin DiAngelo and all the, you know, all the, you know,

00:32:30.400 um ibram x kendi all the woke you know ridiculous you know people um you know saying like i remember

00:32:38.240 seeing some of the you know the articles and and you know that uh uh being prompt being on time 0.50

00:32:44.140 is a product of whiteness and so to you know to expect uh promptness or to to herald you know

00:32:50.540 esteem promptness as though it's some moral you know uh superior virtue is um is actually racist

00:32:58.580 You know, it's racist against other cultures.

00:33:01.240 And we said this, I think, last week.

00:33:03.000 But no, it's not just that some cultures are flexible and kind of show up whenever they want to.

00:33:10.360 And then some cultures, Western cultures, white cultures predominantly, are prompt and on time.

00:33:16.540 And that's just two different ways of living life, you know. 0.96

00:33:19.200 And who's to say which is better?

00:33:21.360 Well, I'll say it.

00:33:22.480 The culture that's timely.

00:33:24.860 It's not just a different way of doing things.

00:33:26.740 it's a better way of doing things um if you want to call that white culture i'll admit that

00:33:32.560 predominantly it has been white countries um you know or countries that are predominantly white

00:33:37.800 um if you want to say so you're saying that uh white countries as it pertains to timeliness

00:33:42.900 uh that their culture is superior to other countries where you know people just uh show up

00:33:48.460 you know uh you are notorious for showing up two three four hours late yes uh that's superior

00:33:54.620 because it comes from a Christian framework. It comes from a respect and love of neighbor.

00:34:02.140 And it comes also, you can make a strong argument from the Eighth Commandment,

00:34:06.260 thou shall not steal. Time is money. We use our time to produce and to cultivate. And

00:34:13.800 if someone takes my time, they are taking my ability to earn and they are stealing from me.

00:34:21.880 And so this idea of let's meet at 3 o'clock and you show up at 4.30, you've robbed me.

00:34:29.380 You've robbed me of my potential productivity by robbing me of my time.

00:34:33.760 And so it is a form of theft. 1.00

00:34:36.000 And so it's not just that one is, you know, it's just two different cultures. 0.95

00:34:41.340 No, one culture is actually superior to the other. 0.71

00:34:44.920 And so all that being said, as it pertains to Western civilization, I believe just even our judicial system and the way that our courts function, or at least the way that they did before so much apostasy and so much degradation and the way that we're turning our back on Western civilization because of turning our back on Christ and so much corruption that has come into the court system and to law. 0.91

00:35:10.300 Well, previously, not that long ago, much of our, and still, by God's grace, we don't deserve it,

00:35:17.780 but as a mercy, a lot of good things still remain intact. There's a lot of good Christian residue.

00:35:24.780 But traditionally, in the American system, in the English system, and many European countries,

00:35:31.960 the case law system that's been employed judicially comes from the Bible.

00:35:38.460 The idea of there needing to be two or three witnesses, the idea that you can commit perjury, that you need to swear an oath, if you're going to take the stand to tell the truth and nothing but the truth and the whole truth, being considered innocent until being proven guilty, and that proof of guilt having to be beyond a shadow of a doubt, presumed innocence.

00:36:06.060 all of this comes from christian thought these are biblical principles and so a defense my point

00:36:13.400 is a defense of western civilization western culture is a defense of the very thing that

00:36:19.400 western culture was built by which is christendom and christendom is a direct line you know a direct

00:36:24.820 correlation of the fruit of christianity so the reason why i think uh that not only is it

00:36:30.620 permissible but we're actually obligated those of us who are citizens in the west to preserve

00:36:35.620 our Western culture is we are preserving what Christianity, our mother, has produced. And also

00:36:43.420 we're honoring the fifth commandment and preserving what our fathers built and fought for and the

00:36:49.740 heritage they built for us. And then your final question, okay, well, what about certain cultures

00:36:55.580 and nations that are not Western? So what if the heritage of your country is predominantly

00:37:02.040 Islamic, you know, or it's predominantly pagan, you know, or you're in some sub-Saharan,

00:37:08.680 you know, African nation that's, you know, 97% Muslim. Do you have an obligation to preserve 0.75

00:37:15.500 your culture, to preserve that kind of civilization? Well, if you're a Christian 1.00

00:37:21.140 living in a predominantly Muslim, you know, nation like France, you know, but like the Sudan, 0.86

00:37:30.440 you know or something like that france and you know in 20 years and um and it's absolutely what 1.00

00:37:34.960 they deserve and if america doesn't change its course then it'll be what we deserve as well 0.93

00:37:39.320 but but uh if you're living in some sub-saharan you know african country and it's predominantly

00:37:46.440 muslim do you have but you happen to be a christian born again by grace of faith in christ

00:37:51.560 do you have an obligation to defend um your heritage in terms of your natural temporal

00:37:58.480 heritage of what you've been born into? Do you have an obligation, a moral obligation under God

00:38:04.820 to preserve something that has been built in opposition towards the triune gods, something

00:38:12.160 that is anti-Christ? And I would argue no. So I would say the reason why we are fighting for

00:38:18.480 Western civilization is because Western civilization is Christian. It's Christian. 0.96

00:38:23.760 And then to go back to the person who lives in a predominantly Muslim nation,

00:38:28.480 I think wherever your culture and your virtues and your values that you've grown up in overlap with your Christian faith as a converted Christian, then all truth is God's truth.

00:38:40.720 So wherever you do find things that ultimately have their roots in the Christian worldview, like traditional marriage.

00:38:48.740 So wherever you find Muslims fighting against LGBT, then great. 1.00

00:38:55.760 That's great. 1.00

00:38:56.560 But by and large, can you just wholesale take an Islamic culture and Islamic heritage and say, well, but it's mine.

00:39:07.300 I was converted to Christ, but my father was a Muslim, my father's father was a Muslim, and this is my nation, and this is my heritage.

00:39:14.680 And therefore, I have to fight for all things that are a Muslim culture, even where they contradict my newfound Christian beliefs. 0.99

00:39:27.420 I would say no. 1.00

00:39:28.380 Yeah, I would add to that the fact that the gospel and the word of God are the only two things that have the inherent authority to demand, absolutely demand, that a culture or a nation change.

00:39:43.780 So outside foreign pressure, you can coax and aid, but you can't just march in and impose your values on another nation.

00:39:50.980 However, the gospel, I think, will do two things.

00:39:54.900 It will utterly destroy some practices and replace them with Christian practices, or it will redeem some of the perspectives.

00:40:03.520 So, for instance, if you look in a lot of Asian countries, there is a very, very high value on respecting and honoring father and mother. 0.93

00:40:12.180 and then it gets idolatrous with the way they do that with ancestors. 0.93

00:40:15.100 Ancestral worship, yeah.

00:40:15.640 So the gospel won't come in and say, stop honoring your father and mother.

00:40:19.440 Right.

00:40:19.820 You'll say, that was a good impulse, but you've been doing that wrong. 0.68

00:40:23.380 And so there will be a way that as Asian countries and nations become Christian, 0.97

00:40:28.380 they will, oh, that's how we were supposed to be doing that the whole time. 0.91

00:40:32.220 Right.

00:40:32.380 But they won't have to abandon it.

00:40:33.460 But there will be other practices that a nation would utterly have to abandon. 0.86

00:40:37.160 And so if you're in a nation that's not Christian or Christian heritage, 0.95

00:40:40.380 you ought to, kind of the way you've talked about in the past, Joel, where Noah's sons covered his 0.93

00:40:46.740 nakedness. You honor the things that are just part of common grace, or even outside, like the

00:40:53.100 food, or the music, or just things that are part of the land that you live in. Continue to honor

00:40:58.660 those things, esteem them, love them, but work for the gospel to either obliterate idolatry or

00:41:04.360 reframe and reshape the traditions that have been passed in.

00:41:08.560 Right. It would be the same as Catholicism, you know, that I think Protestants, you know, part of, you know, Protestantism is an overreaction in the sense that Protestants by and large are constantly rebelling against the fifth commandment.

00:41:25.240 right, Protestants, especially Baptists, of which I am one, but sadly, and especially

00:41:32.420 Independent Fundamental Baptists, with just a disdain, outright aversion towards church history

00:41:40.280 and church fathers. And so Roman Catholicism is wrong in the sense that there's a worship, 0.83

00:41:47.460 and it's, oh, we're just venerating. No, no, you're not. You are worshiping Mary. They uphold

00:41:52.440 Mary as a co-redemptrix. Immaculate conception is not a doctrine surrounding the birth of Christ, 0.83

00:41:57.520 it's surrounding Mary, her own birth, that she was born without original sin. They believe that

00:42:02.440 she is sinless, full of grace, and the treasury of merit, not Mary, but merit, is this idea that

00:42:10.420 from all of Mary's good works, if you don't have enough of your own, you can borrow some of hers,

00:42:16.780 as well as other saints, and then also an authority. It's not just that she's co-redemptrix,

00:42:22.120 so she is saving alongside her son Jesus. He's primary savior, but she's like the sous chef

00:42:27.540 savior, second in command. But then there's also, she's a subordinate savior, but she's actually a

00:42:34.780 superior officer in a sense that if there's anything that you want, any kind of petition

00:42:41.420 or request that you want to make to God, well, you go to Jesus, his son. He's a mediator, right?

00:42:47.300 There's one God and one mediator between God and man, God, man, Christ, Jesus.

00:42:52.240 But then Roman Catholicism introduces several other mediators, chief being Mary.

00:42:57.780 And so, you know, if God feels too lofty, well, you can go to his son Jesus.

00:43:02.400 If Jesus feels too lofty, then, you know, well, John chapter 2, the wedding at Canaan,

00:43:06.440 you know, Mary looks to the servants and says, do whatever, you know, Jesus says, it's not

00:43:09.600 my time, you know, when Mary says that they've run out of wine at this wedding feast.

00:43:14.200 And then, so Jesus essentially, you know, the Catholic interpretation is he's saying no, but then Mary turns to the servants and just ignores Jesus' answer and says, do whatever he tells you, you know, essentially, according to, you know, papal, you know, papist Roman doctrine, that Mary was able to override Jesus' decision.

00:43:34.640 So Mary is basically saying, it doesn't matter what Jesus wants, if I want it, he's going

00:43:38.740 to do it, Jesus is going to do it.

00:43:40.060 And that that hierarchy still exists today, Roman Catholicism, that's one of the reasons 0.56

00:43:44.320 why you pray to Mary.

00:43:46.400 And so anyway, so praying to saints, trusting in saints and their ability to get Jesus to

00:43:54.480 do what you want, or that some of their extra merits and their earthly life and good deeds

00:43:59.120 they did, that that somehow would be able to help you, that the work of Christ is not sufficient,

00:44:05.300 that it can be supplemented by the merit of saints. All of that is a perversion and idolatry

00:44:10.240 and sin. But Protestants, back to my point, Protestants have overcompensated, and Protestants, 1.00

00:44:18.920 I believe, have broken the fifth commandment and don't honor their fathers at all. And so, 0.95

00:44:22.580 So the same thing that you could do in certain Asian cultures with ancestral worship and saying, look, your honor for your elders is good, but worshiping your ancestors is idolatrous and wrong.

00:44:37.360 uh so too i think the same lesson uh could be uh said to uh catholics um our catholic friends

00:44:43.920 and saying look um there's in one sense um we protestants um uh we actually have have uh i

00:44:52.420 think uh sent and broken the fifth commandment and there's there's something about catholicism

00:44:56.880 that is actually good uh there's a good instinct there but it's been taken uh way too far to the

00:45:02.000 point of idolatry. So, you need to repent of that. But the fact that you guys, that you love

00:45:07.240 Athanasius and Augustine in a way that Independent Fundamental Baptists would basically say that,

00:45:13.500 Independent Fundamental Baptists, it's sad, but it's really similar to Mormonism. It's the idea

00:45:18.820 that, you know, all cults, and I'm not saying they're a cult necessarily, I do think that they

00:45:22.820 have a true gospel, but they're cult-like, you know, in this instance, all cults, at least 0.53

00:45:30.400 Christian-type cults that are spinoffs of Christianity, what they do is they basically

00:45:35.000 say that we had the truth in the first century church, but then it was lost, but then it was

00:45:41.240 recovered fairly recently, 100 years ago, 150 years ago, whatever, by our guy, Joseph Smith,

00:45:50.140 or whatever. Charismatics do this with Azusa Street Revival, that like, well, the gospel wasn't

00:45:56.220 loss, you know, again, I'm not going to say that charismatics is a cult. It's not. Some of them

00:46:00.820 are cult-like, but not all charismatics. But they do have this cult-like element in the sense of,

00:46:07.580 you know, but there's a substantial, significant piece of Christianity that was utterly lost after

00:46:12.140 the first century, but then Azusa Street, 1906, we got it back. Independent Fundamental Baptists,

00:46:16.960 same kind of thing. It's like, well, you know, we lost, you know, faithfulness, that good old

00:46:20.220 time religion, you know, and so they would look at Athanasius and Augustine and Aquinas and,

00:46:25.300 you know, and Anselm and all down the ages and Calvin and Luther and, and, and just kind of,

00:46:30.780 you know, Zwingli and write them all off. And so, you know, so they, I think, should learn

00:46:36.420 from better Protestants and, and Catholics, you know, you could, you could say the same thing.

00:46:41.880 There are good things here, but, but you've gone too far.

00:46:44.840 Good. Okay. So that was the biggest question. We're going to take our next break and we'll

00:46:49.140 come back and we'll do some that are a little bit more shotgun. They're a little more specific.

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00:49:27.540 Okay, good.

00:49:28.440 Well, we're back.

00:49:29.240 And so, Joel, I want to try and get through some of these in the last section.

00:49:32.920 So we will resist the urge to explain every possible nuance, or we'll just get to one.

00:49:39.700 Okay.

00:49:40.280 I'll try to get to more.

00:49:41.900 I want to reference a comment that C.G.

00:49:45.620 Macklemore made a little bit ago, and you don't have to go all the way back to it, Nathan.

00:49:50.360 I'll just kind of summarize it.

00:49:51.220 He said, with what's going on in England, in order to save England, there it is, the 0.85

00:49:56.920 only way England will prevail is to remove the citizenship of millions of Muslim immigrants 0.94

00:50:00.500 and their children who were born there. 0.72

00:50:02.340 i doubt they have the stomach for it so given that agree i do too given that evangelicals are

00:50:10.100 involved in the two battles that you said but legitimately are involved in the battle for the

00:50:14.820 for their civilization for western civilization that's going to lead to certain tactics and

00:50:22.020 weapons of warfare so my question here joel is uh right now with where we are trying to save

00:50:28.500 Western civilization, do you think the political battle is the tip of the spear? And I don't mean

00:50:34.760 just this election, voting for Trump or not. What I mean is, do we need to be putting serious

00:50:41.360 effort, money, time, energy, and focus into getting Christians into positions of power 0.94

00:50:48.000 in order to turn, through legal means, the tide away from evil and towards righteousness? Is that 0.92

00:50:56.600 the tip of the spear right now? Is that something that the average Christian family should consider

00:51:01.960 supporting a Christian candidate, that sort of thing? Like, should the Christians in the pews 1.00

00:51:06.540 be thinking about how they can support, pray for, and pursue the political effort in this battle?

00:51:15.260 Yeah, I don't know. You know, that like brings up one of the questions that people, you know,

00:51:22.020 Like, is it a political war, the cultural war, or is it a spiritual war?

00:51:25.900 And, you know, everybody will say, it's a spiritual war, you know, and that's, you know, that's, yeah, it is a spiritual war fundamentally.

00:51:33.480 So the tip of the spear, I think, is that we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and, you know, and so I agree with that. 0.96

00:51:41.940 the principal war that the Christian is always engaged in is with spiritual entities, with dark, 0.96

00:51:53.180 demonic powers. And so the spiritual war, I think, is the tip of the spear. But what Christians need 0.92

00:51:58.680 to recognize is that, you know, Satan, he, you know, 1 Timothy says this, you know, rebuke your

00:52:05.840 opponent with gentleness, not knowing if he might, you know, if God might bring him to repentance

00:52:09.500 after it says it continues after having been taken captured or captive by satan to do his will

00:52:17.460 so here's the deal like uh we are fundamentally in a spiritual war but in the spiritual war our

00:52:23.260 opponent takes flesh and blood captive that's right so so yeah your your war is uh fundamentally

00:52:30.160 it's not with Nancy Pelosi. But Nancy Pelosi has been taken captive by dark presences to do the

00:52:41.240 bidding of her father, Satan. She's not a Christian. John chapter 8 would apply to her, 0.98

00:52:47.780 where Jesus, you know, he says to the Pharisees, you're not children of Abraham. And, you know,

00:52:51.620 then they appeal, oh, we're actually children of God. No, you're not children of God. If you

00:52:55.880 are like God, children always bear a striking resemblance to their father. So, if you were

00:53:00.740 actually a child of Abraham, you would behave like Abraham. You would look like Abraham. What's 0.98

00:53:05.220 one of the characteristics of Abraham? Well, prophetically, he saw the Messianic promises

00:53:10.360 of Jesus. And so, Jesus says, he saw my day and was glad. Looking forward through the quarter of

00:53:16.740 time by the Spirit in faith, he saw my day and rejoiced. You see me. The day is now here. I'm

00:53:22.700 standing right in front of you, and you hate me. And so, what are your characteristics?

00:53:27.800 They're not the characteristics of Abraham or God, but your characteristics, two big ones, 0.97

00:53:33.200 you know, Jesus says comes to mind, you're liars, you're bearing false witness, 0.98

00:53:37.240 producing, you know, lying witnesses, and you're also murderous. You want me dead, 1.00

00:53:45.100 an innocent man who's done no wrong. And so, you bear the characteristics and the striking

00:53:51.080 resemblance to your daddy, the devil. And so, likewise, Nancy Pelosi is a daughter of her 0.70

00:53:56.700 father, Satan. Satan is her father. She is not regenerate. There's no way. And, oh, well, you 0.99

00:54:03.120 can't say that because God alone sees the heart. That's right. But Jesus tells us that we can tell,

00:54:07.720 we can discern by fruit. And so, there's no way. There's absolutely no way that she is

00:54:14.520 a Christian. And so, our war is with Satan. It's a spiritual war, but Satan took Nancy Pelosi 1.00

00:54:20.920 captive to do his bidding. And so, we do, it's predominantly that verse in Ephesians.

00:54:26.720 And he uses her policies to take other people captive.

00:54:29.180 Exactly, exactly. And ideology, ideas, and propaganda, and curriculum in schools,

00:54:36.360 and economic policies, and taxation, all these different things. So, we are at war with all

00:54:41.400 these things. In the primary sense, our war is spiritual. But if you're just some, but you have

00:54:49.280 to beg the question, what does it mean to engage in the spiritual war? If you're only engaging

00:54:55.160 in spiritual ways, in a war that is predominantly spiritual, but if you're only exclusively engaging

00:55:02.600 in spiritual ways, going to church, praying, fasting, these kinds of things, which are all

00:55:10.720 good. I'm not saying less than that. I'm arguing for more. If you're only engaging in those ways,

00:55:15.500 then you're immediately at a disadvantage because your spiritual enemy is not content to only wage

00:55:23.040 spiritual warfare with spiritual methods. He is waging his war against Christ by utilizing every

00:55:34.600 method under the sun. He's doing it legally. He's doing it financially, economically. He's doing it

00:55:44.420 through physical warfare and physical violence at every single level. That's the war that he's

00:55:52.280 waging. And so we have to fight, I think, on every front. So predominantly, primarily, it is a

00:55:57.280 spiritual warfare in terms of our tactics, you know, your primary question was, do we get involved

00:56:05.220 politically? And I think, you know, the answer is yes, I think to varying capacities based off of,

00:56:12.160 in part, your resources, and then also in part based off of your giftings. And so, some Christian 0.63

00:56:20.580 men should be running for local office. They should. Other Christian families are going to

00:56:26.280 support through their vote and also financially certain campaigns and be involved in certain

00:56:33.080 events and lobbying and these kinds of things. And that would be, you know, less of a time

00:56:37.700 constraint. And, you know, so they could still work another job and be involved on other fronts.

00:56:43.140 And then some, it's just, you know, look, I've got enough to give to my local church

00:56:49.380 right um and and uh and and then feed my family and try to own a home so that i can leave an

00:56:56.240 inheritance to my children and and we're just barely getting by uh in in such a way that we

00:57:01.260 can actually be a one income family where mom can stay home and homeschool the kids and that's

00:57:05.460 that's all we've got so given the choice between um financially supporting a political candidate

00:57:11.380 who is an abolitionist, which is awesome, versus, let's say I can support these righteous

00:57:23.740 candidates in the political sphere, but I still need my wife. If I'm going to do that, my wife

00:57:29.160 is going to have to work out of the home, versus we can bring mom home and get the kids out of

00:57:34.020 public school, but in terms of charitable giving, we'll be able to give to our church and actually

00:57:40.100 less than a tithe. This is something that a lot of pastors probably wouldn't say. Given the choice

00:57:45.240 between tithing and getting your wife out of work, get your wife out of work. Give something to the 1.00

00:57:50.440 church and be working towards a tithe as a goal. But it would be, I don't want a family tithing at

00:57:56.940 my church if it requires them to send their kids to public school. So all that being said, and I

00:58:02.520 honestly, I think that's usually, usually if you press and ask some specific questions and they're

00:58:07.620 honest enough that's a false dichotomy usually um they you know there's other things that they can

00:58:12.460 cut back on in the budget and blah blah blah so uh so it just depends it just depends on the

00:58:16.700 person what are your resources uh financially what are your resources in terms of time and

00:58:20.940 then what are your resources time talent and treasure so you know what what treasure do you

00:58:25.780 have finances what time do you have and then what talent do you have like do you have a knack for

00:58:30.380 legislation and and like can you could you be a politician right then go for it if not um i think

00:58:36.900 every Christian, and I would say it like this, in the same way that the global evangelism,

00:58:42.660 global missions guys, you know, used to tell us all the time, David Platt, you know, and

00:58:47.300 John Piper, and they would tell us at every, you know, conference every year again and again and

00:58:52.000 again ad nauseum, you know, that everybody is called to global missions. You know, the question

00:58:56.760 is just how. Some are called to go, and others are called to send, you know, or support. I would say

00:59:02.380 the same thing as it pertains to politics in your nation. Everybody, if you're called

00:59:09.360 to push Christ's kingdom further in other nations, if every Christian, if that is true,

00:59:15.460 that every Christian is called to some capacity of advancing Christ's kingdom in global missions,

00:59:21.980 that means advancing Christ's kingdom in other nations, then certainly every Christian is called

00:59:27.280 to advance christ's kingdom in their nation um and and so um and and to do that in any tangible

00:59:34.680 sense and not just be a pietist you know with the jesus juke but to do that in a real sense

00:59:40.960 because here's the deal your opponent is doing it in a real sense right satan is not content

00:59:45.260 to have authority over the 17th dimension and the spiritual plane that that hovers above

00:59:51.880 these United States. No, he actually wants the country. He wants it practically, financially,

00:59:58.340 physically. He actually wants the country. He's fighting a real war. He's not just fighting

01:00:05.380 in the 17th dimension. He's fighting, he's taking captive flesh and blood in order to do his bidding

01:00:12.700 in an earthly, temporal, physical, tangible way. And so our battle is first and foremost with him,

01:00:19.400 but if we're going to to fight him the weapons that he's using that he's deploying are bills

01:00:26.760 legislation that's right um politicians uh media oh my goodness like so christians you want to war

01:00:35.320 against satan um you need to make and hearing you need to make christian media especially for

01:00:42.120 children but but when i say christian this is what i mean you need to make good media right it not

01:00:48.240 something that children of Christian parents feel obligated to watch because it's Christian,

01:00:54.720 but they want to watch because it's good, and that's precisely what makes it Christian. 0.59

01:00:58.720 So in all these ways, and it just depends what is your skill set. Not everybody. I think everybody 0.63

01:01:03.740 should vote in local and federal elections. Although I'm not, you know, somebody's like,

01:01:08.400 I can't vote for, you know, I'm going to write in third party or whatever. I get it. I'm not going

01:01:12.300 to say that you're in sin. I think it's foolish, but I'm not going to say you're sinning. But I

01:01:16.580 think in local elections, everybody needs to be voting. In federal elections, I'd like to see

01:01:20.380 every Christian voting. Beyond that, politically, beyond a vote, I don't think that every Christian 1.00

01:01:25.800 has to financially support campaigns. I don't think that every Christian has to run for local

01:01:30.980 office, but every Christian does need to fight in tangible ways. Some, it will be politically,

01:01:36.100 by giving or by actually campaigning and legislating. Others, it'll be, if I got a guy

01:01:43.440 in my church who's uh who's writing a book for children right uh with every you know free you

01:01:50.720 know waking hour that he has you know um then uh and he's and he's not lobbying for uh the

01:01:57.440 conservative candidate candidate in our county i'm going to support that of course good i was

01:02:02.200 going to mention deception and i was going to mention the missions movement and you touched

01:02:06.300 on both of those. We'll move to the next question. And I want to get through two. So the first of

01:02:14.000 the last two is, who are the allies that evangelical Christians can rely on? And this is a huge

01:02:23.280 question, but specifically, is a big tent mindset good, given that we seem to just continually lose

01:02:33.080 people that used to be considered friends or should be more selective with who we jump into

01:02:38.760 foxholes with hmm repeat the question one more time um well it's it's who are the allies right

01:02:47.240 but then do we want a big tent mindset with allies for winning this war or are we saying i'm tired of

01:02:53.400 losing guys that six months ago were on my team and now they're shooting at me from my side right

01:03:00.280 yeah that one's tough um because i want to be fair i want to be honest and and i should be

01:03:08.340 specific what i mean is you look at like the methodist church which ostensibly is a church

01:03:14.920 but they're not on our side in this battle right they're not even on the side of christ here right

01:03:19.360 yeah right so i don't i don't necessarily mean a theologian that you have a there are in this

01:03:25.100 a second or third tier disagreement with and you kind of go at it on twitter for a while

01:03:29.640 Yeah, United Methodist Church is absolutely the enemy.

01:03:34.280 They're not co-belligerents in any way.

01:03:37.680 But as for the intramural skirmishes and fights within the Christian, traditional, pro-America side of the aisle, our team, our larger team, I don't know what—

01:03:55.640 I don't, because part of it, like, I don't think that I would do some of the things that I see other guys doing in terms of, you know, friendly fire, you know, and shooting our own and those kinds of things.

01:04:06.920 I don't think that I would do that.

01:04:08.580 But I want to be honest and admit that I am not in that position and I never have been.

01:04:15.020 And what I mean by that is, this is what I've noticed, is it seems as though, well, it's like animal farm, right?

01:04:23.320 So like the humans, you know, it seems like, oh, the humans are really just for themselves and they don't really care about the animals and they just use the animals to do their bidding and, you know, to provide for them and resources and blah, blah, blah.

01:04:34.360 But if, you know, but if one of us, you know, if we ever, you know, we're able to, you know, dethrone the humans and take their spot, you know, we're, you know, you can trust us because we're one of you.

01:04:44.720 and you know and you know um the whole moral of the story is the pigs you know end up taking over

01:04:49.500 the farm and the pigs turn out to be just as bad as the humans and you know the final scene is

01:04:54.000 they're walking on two you know their two hind legs and for all intents and purpose they're just 0.79

01:04:58.200 right you know they're just humans that are now ugly you know pigs um but they abuse the horses

01:05:04.780 and the animals and everybody else and so i think there's a truth to that sadly and and um and so my 0.50

01:05:12.540 point is you know big eva right so i think you know like russell moore and blah blah like big

01:05:18.600 big eva has been the gatekeepers um you know they're the ones who say you know jump and

01:05:24.120 everybody else has to say how high and they set you know they set the standards and you know all

01:05:28.680 these kinds of things and they've had you know the their hands on the levers of power and um

01:05:33.100 for a very long time and by god's grace you know the overton window has really been shifting um

01:05:38.380 COVID just did a number on Big Eva, you know, and then BLM right after.

01:05:44.800 It was just kind of like a one-two punch, you know, that you got the right and then you got the left. 0.60

01:05:48.900 And a lot of Christians, a lot of blue-collar Christians in the pews, you know, whether it be in the SBC or whether it be in the PCA or just a non-denominational, you know, church, you know, the veil was lifted. 0.53

01:06:02.300 And they started to realize, oh, David French is not our guy, you know, Francis Collins is not our guy, Russell Moore is not our guy.

01:06:08.380 you know like um these guys are not for us right they're not and um these guys are the opposition

01:06:15.460 they they are uh they carry water for the left they um they yeah they're they're traitors they're

01:06:22.540 turncoats um and so they're equivalent of like tax collectors at the time of jesus you know 0.95

01:06:27.880 maybe they're jewish by birth but they work for rome and uh they're selling out their own people 0.84

01:06:32.500 and so that's that became really apparent and so for the longest time big eva they had the

01:06:38.140 biggest conferences. They had this, they had that, and they had their hands on the lever of control.

01:06:42.280 But what I've noticed, to be frank, is that over the last four or five years, as Big Eva has been

01:06:48.540 progressively dethroned, nature abhors a vacuum. And so that space has been filled, is naturally

01:06:57.660 being filled. And those who are filling the space, much like Animal Farm, are kind of starting.

01:07:07.780 I mean, I'm not saying that they're traitors or that they're, because Russell Moore, I don't think 0.99

01:07:11.980 is a Christian. I don't think he's regenerate. So I'm not saying this about some of the mid-Eva guys

01:07:16.600 who have kind of replaced Big Eva or are currently replacing Big Eva. I'm not saying that they're

01:07:23.480 unregenerate like David French or Russell Moore. And I think in many ways, there's still very good

01:07:29.700 Christian men who I love and respect, but I have noticed that guys who were blacklisted,

01:07:38.800 you know, and they were, you know, the gatekeepers were keeping them out, are now doing some of the

01:07:44.540 same. And so that's one of the kind of intramural battles that I don't want to be in, and I wish

01:07:50.720 was not going on, but, you know, on our side and even within our tribe. But right now, it does seem

01:07:57.580 Like there's, you know, um, kind of, uh, uh, a battle between, you know, well, um, I don't like

01:08:06.660 white boy summer. And I think that, uh, anybody who, you know, who makes a joke about white boy 0.51

01:08:12.300 summer or would wear pit vipers or, uh, whatever, anybody who won't outright condemn, you know,

01:08:18.260 white boy summer is, uh, off the team. You're off the team. And, um, that's, you know, that's 0.54

01:08:25.200 racist and i would just say that um that reminds me of big eva that smells eerily familiar so i

01:08:36.660 yeah so i so all that being said i these you know in terms of who we partner with and co-belligen i

01:08:42.080 think it depends you know what are we up against it unfortunately it is a battle on multiple fronts

01:08:47.300 it just is so if i'm fighting if i'm fighting you know certain uh legislation at a local level

01:08:54.580 against abortion and Catholics will come and lobby with me, then I'm going to embrace them

01:09:04.600 on that issue. I'm not going to invite them to speak at my conference on justification by faith 1.00

01:09:09.600 alone. But yes, on that point. And so I think you've got to have, it's like you have your town,

01:09:19.860 your neighborhood and your house i think everybody needs at least those three things

01:09:24.600 your town your neighborhood and your house like my house um you know is is that's that's where

01:09:31.860 it's like that's where it's the smallest you know and so i would say like my house is um my local

01:09:37.540 church it's you it's uh the leaders of my local church and it's a handful it's about 30 guys

01:09:43.440 outside of that that um that i really trust guys that i would you know i help have serve on the

01:09:49.360 board of right response ministries guys that i you know would uh partner with publicly you know

01:09:54.620 those kind so it would be um it would be you know the guys from ogden uh brian survey eric khan you

01:10:00.000 know dan burkholder and ben garrett it would be um it would be john harris it would be ad robles

01:10:06.140 it would be uh dusty deavers it would be uh stephen wolf it would be um i feel like i'm

01:10:13.380 forgetting some important ones. Andrew Isker, C.J. Engel, William Wolfe, you know, like multiple

01:10:20.440 guys. And we have theological disagreements between us. We're not all on the same page.

01:10:25.240 But the difference is so much right now that this is what I think guys who are watching from the

01:10:30.720 outside looking in, especially with Reformed Twitter right now, they don't understand.

01:10:35.300 They are under the impression that it's just right now, you know, with like the post-mill,

01:10:40.800 you know just you know whatever christian nationalists you know uh right reformed group

01:10:45.920 they think that right now there's just a debate on theology so they think it's uh it's it's really

01:10:50.460 just um it's really just a um a disagreement between you know um the dividing line is really

01:10:57.100 just between aquinas and van till right you know it's just uh natural law versus theonomy um and

01:11:04.080 what they don't realize is that so much of it is relational um arguably um more relational than it

01:11:10.660 is theological and that's not to say theology doesn't matter but like when steven wolf for

01:11:14.840 instance uh i'll say it and i'll say it very respectfully respectfully and carefully uh but

01:11:20.460 when steven wolf you know posted a picture side by side of himself and dr james white who i greatly

01:11:26.500 respect and love uh but when he posted that picture the two of them side by side with a

01:11:31.300 caption that said which way western man um a lot of guys were bothered by that joe boot who i also

01:11:37.240 respect and love you know he retweeted and said you know who do you think you are you know um

01:11:42.220 like you know you young whippersnapper when you've had decades of tried and true you know

01:11:47.980 faithfulness then you can um right uh assume that you know to be uh dr white's peer and i totally i

01:11:55.220 love joe boot um we've had him at our conferences i love joe boot and i will continue to partner

01:11:59.400 with joe boot as long as he'll have me i'll continue to partner with james white as long

01:12:02.400 as he'll have me love these men um honor these men grateful for these men learned so much from

01:12:07.360 these men however um i think what dr boot is missing and and other guys who came out and and

01:12:14.020 decried publicly decried and really were bothered by stephen and and posting that what they're

01:12:18.500 missing is um the context stephen did not post that um in in the context of um of a battle of

01:12:26.540 wits or intelligence or um steven didn't post that saying which way western man are you going

01:12:32.860 to go with me and aquinas right uh tomism or with dr white and you know and van till and theonomy

01:12:41.020 right no uh steven wolf posted this right after this was the context he posted it right after

01:12:46.860 dr white in a dividing line episode spent a few minutes very passionate um saying that um

01:12:55.740 a young man who shared a meme about the holocaust that that young man should be under church

01:13:03.540 discipline and uh and wherever that young man goes to church that his elders if they don't

01:13:11.440 are unwilling to put him under church discipline uh then uh then they're really not qualified to

01:13:18.360 be elders you should leave right that church so when stephen wolf said which way uh western man

01:13:23.920 He wasn't saying which set of doctrine, Aquinas or Van Til.

01:13:30.920 What he was saying is to young men, he was saying, which way?

01:13:35.660 Remember, this is Stephen Wolfe who stood up for Thomas Accord.

01:13:39.920 That's right.

01:13:40.720 And I'm not saying that Thomas Accord, and neither is Stephen Wolfe for that matter,

01:13:44.100 I'm not saying that Thomas Accord didn't sin.

01:13:47.140 Thomas Accord, if everybody probably forgot this by now,

01:13:50.420 but two years ago when Thomas Accord—

01:13:52.100 Was it only two years ago?

01:13:52.960 uh yeah it wasn't that long ago it was i remember it was right over thanksgiving he got fired like

01:13:57.100 right before yeah thanksgiving yeah and when thomas accord you know he had his uh his anon

01:14:03.640 account on twitter and uh he posted some good things but he posted some things that were

01:14:08.200 absolutely distasteful and some of them i do believe were objectively sinful in the way that

01:14:12.180 a rhetoric that that he deployed in with that anon account about uh black people in particular

01:14:17.240 there um and hear me uh i am called a racist as you know michael uh on a daily basis you've been

01:14:24.320 called that several times in the channel right yeah there you go so i'm called a racist i've

01:14:28.280 been called a racist you know probably you know 10 20 times just on so far on this live stream

01:14:33.620 uh in the chat so i i'm called a racist all the time so i'm not one of these guys to uh you know

01:14:39.020 to say ray you know spelled r-a-a-a-y-c-i-s-m um i don't i don't care um but um i do think that

01:14:49.280 there there is a certain point where it actually is um it actually is a sinful rhetoric um against

01:14:55.140 people on the basis of their skin and um and so uh my point though is this uh thomas accord i think

01:15:02.640 messed up um but uh should thomas accord not be able to feed his children right like i don't i

01:15:12.000 don't think so i think the reaction to thomas accord from neil shinvey right he was one of

01:15:17.780 them in which i have no problem naming him uh neil shinvey um did everything that he could

01:15:23.840 to destroy thomas accord his entire life his entire future to make sure um yeah just that

01:15:31.260 that he would just be shamed into oblivion.

01:15:35.720 And Stephen Wolfe was doing a podcast.

01:15:39.020 He was friends with Thomas, and I'm sure it still is,

01:15:42.220 and was co-hosting a podcast with Thomas at the time

01:15:45.320 and removed Thomas from the podcast,

01:15:48.160 and that was mutual Thomas step down.

01:15:51.040 But Stephen Wolfe actually did a campaign

01:15:53.800 and used the sales of his book,

01:15:56.160 The Case for Christian Nationalism,

01:15:57.800 to help Thomas Accord

01:15:59.520 until he could find a job financially

01:16:01.500 because he was fired as the headmaster

01:16:03.940 from a classical Christian school

01:16:05.260 where he was working.

01:16:07.460 And Stephen Wolf would not apologize

01:16:10.460 for continuing to be Thomas' friend.

01:16:14.180 Yes, that's right.

01:16:15.080 He wasn't saying that Thomas

01:16:16.140 never did anything wrong,

01:16:17.760 but he was saying

01:16:18.880 Thomas is still a brother in Christ.

01:16:21.520 He's a brother.

01:16:22.180 Believe it or not,

01:16:23.520 even for one,

01:16:25.840 99% of the time,

01:16:27.320 racism is a made-up sin.

01:16:28.780 Right.

01:16:28.880 the one percent of the time where it actually is sin even then guess what christian sin that's not

01:16:35.400 what jesus was talking about with the unforgivable unpardonable exactly racism is not the unpartable

01:16:40.340 uh sin and so if a guy does mess up there and he admits it and confesses it yeah uh which thomas

01:16:47.380 accord did and repents of it which thomas accord did right um he's my brother in christ and if he

01:16:55.060 can't feed his family not because the pagans are destroying his life not because nancy pelosi not

01:17:00.580 because of the left not because of kamala no but because of christians reformed christians

01:17:05.840 they want to see him utterly destroyed utterly destroyed with no hope no future his wife

01:17:12.320 destroyed his kids destroyed um stephen wolf defended him and so you have james white on

01:17:18.220 the dividing line saying um that a guy who shared a meme a guy who shared a meme is not not thomas

01:17:24.320 the court separate issue this is a separate guy um and and james white didn't name him uh but you've

01:17:29.760 got james white saying you know if a guy shares a meme and the meme was about the holocaust um

01:17:34.880 and and it was um where a little girl is asking her mom what's the holocaust and the mom says oh

01:17:40.220 it's the one time in history where jews had to do manual labor and they uh claimed that it killed

01:17:44.160 them i don't think it's a particularly tasteful meme i wouldn't share it but the point is um

01:17:52.300 is that an excommunicable offense?

01:17:56.140 Church discipline.

01:17:59.020 I think that it might merit a pastoral conversation

01:18:02.180 to go to that young man and say,

01:18:04.220 what did you mean by this?

01:18:05.720 Also, who'd you share it with?

01:18:07.400 Was this publicly shared on Twitter

01:18:08.760 for thousands of people to see,

01:18:10.440 where there already is so many factions

01:18:12.420 and divisions over this issue?

01:18:14.340 And a lot of guys actually are going too far right

01:18:17.020 and are becoming unhinged

01:18:19.060 because that is actually happening.

01:18:21.780 That is true.

01:18:23.340 So are you sharing this to put gasoline on the fire online with a bunch of guys who really have been radicalized too far and are lacking wisdom and maturity?

01:18:36.560 Or did you share it privately?

01:18:38.960 So that would be one of my questions is, who did you share it with?

01:18:41.720 Did you share it publicly on Twitter or did you text it?

01:18:44.480 I don't know, hypothetically.

01:18:45.480 Let's say you text it privately to only two people.

01:18:48.120 Right.

01:18:49.120 Two people that you've had years of relationship with.

01:18:51.780 okay, well, that changes the conversation immediately, if that's the case. And then

01:18:56.560 my next question would be, what do you think this mean is saying? What do you think the message,

01:19:03.040 and why? Why did you share? So first, who did you share it with, and why did you share?

01:19:08.080 Okay, and if that individual, for instance, let's say he says, oh, well, I in no way intended to

01:19:12.500 share this to mock the loved ones, the family of those who suffered and died innocently in the

01:19:21.260 Holocaust. I didn't mean that at all. I share this meme because I think the meme does a good

01:19:27.300 job of mocking not people who are loved ones of those who suffered and died, but I think the meme

01:19:33.580 does a good job of mocking a historical narrative that right now, as I'm learning more about World

01:19:40.420 War II and trying to not just take wholesale some of the history that we've been taught in

01:19:46.740 mainstream history, but I'm digging into primary sources. And so I was sharing this meme with you

01:19:53.880 because I thought it was funny, not in the way that it mocks Jewish people, but in the way that

01:19:59.000 it mocks a historical account that I personally have some serious doubts about. So I'm not mocking

01:20:05.680 people who suffered. I'm trying to mock a historical account that I think is untrue, right?

01:20:11.980 Now, here's the deal. That's not my position about the Holocaust, to be frank. So, I would

01:20:23.940 disagree on the historical basis. But the question then becomes is now, if this is how somebody

01:20:33.900 responds, now what we're talking about is, okay, so you don't have someone who's senselessly mocking

01:20:38.820 people created in the image of God, but he's mocking a historical narrative that he doubts.

01:20:43.820 So, are we now going to hold that salvation is faith in the historic event of the life,

01:20:51.300 death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, and also salvation

01:20:57.380 requires faith in the historic event of 80 years ago across the pond and what happened

01:21:03.660 in World War II?

01:21:04.340 i i'm under the impression and maybe i'm wrong i'm under the impression that if somebody for

01:21:10.280 instance um if they doubt the historical narrative surrounding 9-11 that there might be actual

01:21:17.640 problems that should be called into question there might be just a general where the person is is not

01:21:22.820 just uh doubting you know indoctrination from the mainstream which is good to question but to where

01:21:28.920 the person is just they've just become an overall contrarian where they just they doubt everything

01:21:33.740 without even having cause they just anything that's mainstream they just don't believe it

01:21:38.260 no uh without any basis of reason and there are actual problems with that and so as a pastor i

01:21:43.580 would i would sit down with a young man like that and i would talk to him about that and and give

01:21:47.980 him some some loving pastoral warnings but but nowhere in that conversation would church discipline

01:21:54.140 come up nowhere right so all that being said back to steven wolf he posted this meme which way

01:22:00.260 western man um and i think what a lot of guys missed is steven wolf was not um was not saying

01:22:07.840 which way me or white aka aquinas or van till natural law or theonomy um no what he was saying

01:22:17.960 is uh which way young man on twitter who sees right now uh that seemingly within our own camp

01:22:27.580 There are guys who, if I was in their church, they would excommunicate me.

01:22:40.780 And then there are other guys, like Stephen Wolfe, who would acknowledge with someone like Thomas Accord,

01:22:46.920 that's sin, you need to repent, but you're my brother in Christ,

01:22:52.680 and let me raise from my own work and my own writing thousands of dollars

01:22:57.120 to help you and your family in a time of need.

01:22:59.860 Just for the record, for everybody listening right now,

01:23:02.040 you need to be aware of this.

01:23:04.080 You think that Stephen Wolfe continues to garnish followers.

01:23:07.540 Like some of you, you struggle with this.

01:23:08.860 You're like, why is Joel having Stephen Wolfe speak at his next conference?

01:23:12.240 And why has he had him on?

01:23:13.640 Because at first it was like, Joel, you were a theonomist, you know?

01:23:17.100 And for the record, I still am.

01:23:18.600 in terms of the theology, objectively, I am a general equity theonomist. I have not changed

01:23:24.520 my position. But you're struggling. You're like, why? Here's the deal. If you want to know,

01:23:30.920 how is Stephen Wolfe winning people over? Why is Joel warming up to him? The Ogden guys,

01:23:36.600 the Ogden guys talked about, they were always calling themselves theonomists just two,

01:23:40.760 three years ago. What happened? And now they had Stephen Wolfe at their conference and they're

01:23:44.280 friends with Stephen? Why are guys becoming friends with Stephen Wolfe? This is what you

01:23:48.720 need to know. For a lot of young men, it is not merely that they think, oh, I think Stephen Wolfe

01:23:55.540 better encapsulates the Reformed Fathers and Calvin and Luther and the Protestant magisterial

01:24:01.760 position. That's part of it. Some guys are being convinced on the basis of doctrine. They think,

01:24:07.100 actually, I think Calvin's position is better than Van Til's. That's true. That's true. But that is

01:24:13.800 not the only reason and i would suggest that it's not even the primary i would agree the reason why

01:24:19.900 people are flocking to steven wolf is they watched him in the trenches defend thomas accord and they

01:24:26.600 know in their heart of hearts that thomas accord is them yep they're like that's me and then they

01:24:32.660 watched james white recently in this dividing line episode and they thought i love james white

01:24:38.200 i've listened to him for 20 years religiously on the dividing line i'll always respect him

01:24:42.200 he's uh he's worthy of our honor he's worthy of my respect uh but if i get in trouble uh

01:24:49.880 james white will excommunicate me and stephen will raise money for my family

01:24:55.120 that's why stephen's winning let me let me give an analogy here um when i was um oh this is

01:25:05.120 probably 10 or 15 years ago i received some really fantastic advice it was about parenting

01:25:11.340 But the advice was when you're teaching a kid to play basketball and he's just gotten to the point where he's strong enough that you can put the hoop up to full height and he can crouch down, he can get that ball and he can lob it up there at the basketball hoop.

01:25:28.800 When you're teaching a kid to play basketball, every so often he's going to end up throwing it over the backboard, right?

01:25:36.800 And if you're inside a gymnasium, maybe as he's getting his range down, he throws it over the backboard and hits the scoreboard and it breaks.

01:25:45.920 And I think what you're saying there, Joel, is the war that we are involved in and the reason why people will side with someone like Stephen Wolfe or James White is Stephen Wolfe and hopefully we also are saying, you want to play basketball?

01:26:01.740 we'll come and when you throw it over the backboard

01:26:05.160 we'll teach you how to avoid doing that

01:26:06.820 you want to come

01:26:08.640 you want to learn accuracy and marksmanship

01:26:10.640 when you miss the target

01:26:11.980 we'll show you how to cite it in better for the next shot

01:26:14.780 right

01:26:15.800 and this to me is really

01:26:18.440 when it comes to the allies

01:26:19.840 and the war that we're in

01:26:21.620 we are in

01:26:24.600 for us uncharted territory 1.00

01:26:27.060 in the previous generations of Christians 1.00

01:26:29.000 they understood how to fight 0.68

01:26:30.860 a hostile culture very well but for us we don't and so as we're figuring out how far away the

01:26:37.040 backboard is right some of the people are going to throw the ball over the board and how are we

01:26:41.740 going to respond to that you broke the window you're off the team right or no no come here let

01:26:46.700 me show you how to do that a little bit better for next time and that's the kind of battle that's

01:26:51.320 the kind of fighting that we're in and that's we're not going to have perfect nba players on

01:26:57.420 this team. We're not going to have perfect snipers in this platoon. We're still learning our way as

01:27:03.980 we go. And that to me really signifies who our enemies are, not our enemies, who the close inner

01:27:13.040 circle of allies are. It's people who say, yeah, we do want to be, we want to be wise. We want to

01:27:18.100 be biblical. We want to be effective. We want to be shrewd. We want to be sharp. But also, if you

01:27:23.700 accidentally break the window with the basketball we're not going to lose it right yeah yeah and

01:27:29.660 and i think my point is to say that um i could be wrong but i think back to you know the animal farm

01:27:36.800 analogy um i think that that has been the general disposition of um guys like james white guys like

01:27:48.000 doug wilson that that has been their disposition i i have received that from from those guys right

01:27:54.280 um that kindness that patience uh compassion fathers not exasperating their sons and so um

01:28:05.640 but i i don't know i don't know what it is maybe i'm wrong maybe the animal farm thing is not a

01:28:11.600 good analogy uh but what i'm saying is that um the pigs cared a lot more for the sheep and the

01:28:18.860 goats and the horses uh until they when they were in the field when they were in the field

01:28:23.600 until they actually took the house but as soon as they actually usurped the humans and took the

01:28:28.960 house um that's when they seem to have a lot less compassion and i don't know if that's just like a

01:28:37.740 you know just like a an irrevocable inevitable rule of life because i because i i think that

01:28:45.740 there's to be honest because i'm trying to think about it you know objectively and and you know if

01:28:50.960 the table was turned and um like a general has to behave in war we're talking about war that's

01:28:59.540 our overall theme today a general has to behave differently that's then you know than the leader

01:29:06.220 of an individual platoon that's right right the the leader of an individual platoon has you know

01:29:12.460 a much smaller amount of guys under his command he's able to take the time with each one of them

01:29:18.440 you know and if one of them is you know falling behind he could you know but but the general is

01:29:24.320 like all right uh it's not practice it's a game it's game day yeah and um and he's taking to

01:29:33.060 account a million different things he's trying to win the war and so for the general he looks over

01:29:38.840 to the right and he sees you know young men you know and and and some of some of them publicly

01:29:47.560 you know saying things like uh adolf hitler was the last christian prince right and the general

01:29:54.700 like he's like you've got to be kidding me like like no way like i'm no i'm we're at war

01:30:03.780 i'm fighting on 17 different fronts um i don't have time and we simply just cannot afford the 1.00

01:30:13.060 enemies at the gate they're transing kids right uh we cannot afford i cannot afford to come over 0.97

01:30:19.840 here and spend the next you know eight hours with you discipling and teaching and and and 0.96

01:30:28.500 explaining to you why um adolf hitler was not the last christian prince objectively and historically

01:30:37.280 and also even if he was why it is a terrible strategy and tactic to publicly announce that

01:30:45.260 yeah um the general just so i'm trying to be fair here and and you know and and even-handed

01:30:52.540 the general just that that's just not his prerogative he's not going he's not going to do

01:30:57.600 that and uh and i get it i i get it um and and to be honest like we've got some guys doing that

01:31:04.560 and some of these guys have some they actually have some good things to say yeah but then but

01:31:11.100 then they say absolutely ridiculous things that um and it's like man

01:31:19.960 yeah what like what are you i don't know what to do i don't i don't know so i can i can love you

01:31:29.300 like back to the stephen wolf example i can love you like if if you fell on hard times if you know

01:31:34.140 like i could um help charitably give towards you to make sure that your family isn't you know

01:31:39.140 impoverished um those kinds of things but um but no publicly i can't right i'm not going to take

01:31:47.580 a guy who says adolf hitler is the last christian prince and say this guy is he's on it this guy man

01:31:54.740 you should follow his account you should he's a colon i'm not going to do it he's a sergeant now

01:31:58.640 i can't i can't do that yeah and so um because you you shot yourself in in both feet um somehow

01:32:07.260 some way i don't know how you pulled it off but you i mean you yeah you you hamstrung yourself 0.73

01:32:12.360 and um and so anyway so i i don't know so i i think that's just you know big eva is being crushed

01:32:20.120 right now before our very eyes praise god you know praise god it's a wonderful wonderful thing

01:32:25.440 to to behold um big eva is being crushed but mid eva is coming in and as mid eva is kind of

01:32:32.120 filling that gap filling the void we're seeing mid-eva changing um some of their tactics

01:32:39.500 and uh and it's hard it's it's hard because it's like wait a second like uh that's

01:32:46.860 that's i'm just not i'm just not used to seeing you engage that way right um you know someone who

01:32:57.120 you know and so i think it's difficult right now for young men they're like what like what like

01:33:04.140 i'm watching my fathers and my fathers were constantly pushing the overton window they

01:33:09.760 were constantly you know stepping beyond what was permissible acceptable discourse at that given

01:33:16.220 moment like you know whether it's doug wilson talking about you know uh southern slavery as

01:33:20.540 it was you know and talking about uh mutually benevolent and even affectionate relationships

01:33:25.400 between masters and slaves or even if it's and that was like i mean the dude that he was pushing

01:33:31.480 the overton window on that like 40 years before it was even slightly permissible you know yep and

01:33:37.940 and uh and and so so now to see like overton window pushers good courageous guys who paved

01:33:46.200 the way and set the example um but now kind of you know want to keep the overton window where

01:33:54.400 it's at wow and not even that like they on a national level they they want more victory that's

01:33:59.780 true more they they want to see abortion abolished they want to see like they're good guys but but

01:34:06.300 in our ranks in the reformed kind of christian nationalist christian tribe whatever you want to

01:34:11.680 call it a little bit more policing in our ranks on the national scale they're like no you know

01:34:17.460 uh take no prisoners you know no surrender like let's go um praise god but it's just it's a

01:34:24.720 confusing time so all super long and rambling answer to your question but my point is just to

01:34:30.360 say it's a really difficult time your question for those who are just now tuning in the question was

01:34:35.520 like should we have a big tent like as we're fighting because let's not forget who the main

01:34:40.620 enemy is the main enemy is satan as i already said spiritual but then he takes flesh and blood

01:34:45.400 captive uh to do his will and the flesh and blood that he's taken captive is is uh people who want

01:34:52.480 to murder babies and trans kids like we can't forget like the big picture uh the orcs have

01:34:58.360 surrounded gondor and uh and honestly they make the orcs of middle earth look good the orcs in 0.99

01:35:04.880 middle earth weren't chopping off penises you know what i mean like so i so i mean orcs are a step up

01:35:11.640 from democrats you know so that's that's what we're up against and uh and we need every fighting 0.95

01:35:17.600 man we can get we've got to link arms like we we can't afford you know it's one thing if god

01:35:22.080 narrows your ranks and he does it of his own accord but but if gideon had hit you know god

01:35:26.880 narrows ranks down to 300 and then gideon himself turned around and said 300 still too many i'd like

01:35:31.700 to have just 30 that would be foolish and we can't afford to do that and so on one hand i'm like let's

01:35:37.980 every fighting man that we we have let's go let's let's fight together and so i'm i'm trying to you

01:35:43.680 know um uh give give me theonomous and also like steve days yep i love steve days give me a

01:35:52.200 dispensational pre-mill guy because he's a fighter and he's orthodox he's a christian

01:35:56.880 um he's protestant he's a brother in christ and so um i think we need a big tent uh that's what

01:36:03.820 i'm trying to do as as my own personal tactics i don't see that as what everybody else is doing

01:36:09.340 i see other guys i think who have the high ground who were honestly they were outcast

01:36:14.680 most of their lives now in god's providence have a high ground and i'm and i'm glad i'm glad that

01:36:20.560 doug wilson's going on tucker carlson i'm praise god more more please more you know and so i'm glad

01:36:27.320 for all the providential opportunities

01:36:29.760 for these honorable men

01:36:31.480 that are coming

01:36:32.140 with that high ground

01:36:34.180 I think they have more to protect

01:36:37.100 and maybe they're seeing things

01:36:40.620 that I'm not

01:36:41.260 and so I want to be gracious

01:36:43.940 and I want to be

01:36:44.760 I want to give the benefit

01:36:46.420 of the doubt to men

01:36:47.600 who quite frankly

01:36:49.760 have earned the benefit of the doubt

01:36:51.180 I don't want to say

01:36:53.040 because what kind of culture

01:36:54.340 are we building

01:36:54.940 if 40 years of faithfulness

01:36:56.500 can be undone in six months you know what i mean like i i just i don't want i don't want to take

01:37:04.720 that position so i don't want to cancel the guy who shares i i don't i don't think the guy who

01:37:09.060 shares a meme about the holocaust should be excommunicated from a church i think that's i

01:37:13.580 think that's ridiculous uh and that's what stephen wolf was getting at when he shared side by side

01:37:18.020 him and james white which way you know western man so i think that's ridiculous i also think 0.82

01:37:22.200 gets ridiculous to be fair equal weights and measures to turn around and on the flip side

01:37:26.760 uh write off james white dr james white right are you are you kidding so so i kind of feel like

01:37:36.020 which is kind of weird because i'm used to being fairly radical but on on this one i feel like i'm

01:37:41.140 kind of in the middle mr moderate and i don't know i don't know what to do about it so all right

01:37:47.640 any any final thoughts or questions no i mean we're not gonna do the last question um

01:37:52.180 I'll give it to the audience.

01:37:53.480 You guys can talk about this around the dinner table tonight.

01:37:55.580 It was how do we get out of negative world and specifically what does victory look like?

01:38:00.420 So something you guys can chew on.

01:38:02.120 Okay.

01:38:02.500 Yeah.

01:38:03.520 All right.

01:38:03.940 Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in.

01:38:05.260 We hope it's been helpful and we look forward to seeing you again next week.

01:38:22.180 You

The NXR Podcast - August 07, 2024

THE LIVESTREAM - What War are Evangelical Christians In？

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