The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - When A Member In Our Church Shared A Holocaust Meme

00:00:00.220 Let's go. 1.00

00:00:01.400 We need Christian blasphemy laws right here in these United States of America. 1.00

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00:00:25.700 you and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries

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00:00:43.500 of this year, the year of our Lord 2024. If you haven't left a review yet, take a moment and help

00:00:49.960 us achieve our goal. So, a member in my church shared a meme about the Holocaust, and, as you

00:00:56.340 may have seen online, some notable pastors publicly put some pressure on him, as well as me, to actually

00:01:03.720 put him under church discipline. I didn't really want to address this, but I think maybe it's time

00:01:09.300 to. So, let's talk about it. Tune in now.

00:01:19.960 All right, here we are. Welcome, Michael.

00:01:23.440 Yep, good to see you, Joel. Unfortunately, Wesley is under the weather today, so not going to be here, but looking forward to getting back together with him again next week.

00:01:33.220 So, yeah, as you said, Joel, the topic this week is, is a meme or a controversial view on the Holocaust or any other historical event, really, for that matter?

00:01:44.440 I mean, barring the historical events in the Bible, like the birth and death and resurrection of Christ.

00:01:49.060 are those things that warrant church discipline? Are those things that warrant even a sort of

00:01:56.680 censorship or a sort of cancellation by Christians? You know, are we punching right? Is this a 0.94

00:02:03.180 legitimate thing to be concerned about? And certainly, does it rise to the level of an

00:02:08.040 offense that we would excommunicate someone or bar them from the table or something like that?

00:02:13.200 So, that's really the question that we're going to be exploring today. Go ahead.

00:02:17.100 Well, I would just say, like, as a little bit of a spoiler alert here, but this individual, just to put everybody at ease, maybe not everybody, much to the chagrin potentially of some, but to put, I think, most reasonable thinking people at ease, this member is still a member in good standing at our church, a dear brother in Christ, love him, love his wife, love his kids, and we're honored to have them as a part of our church.

00:02:44.860 Yeah. So, since we are going to be talking about the question of whether or not this is something that should be church-disciplined, we wanted to take just a minute to say that we believe in church discipline as a tool, a necessary and even good tool that God has given the church.

00:03:03.780 We are in the middle, very slow. We're very slow with this. So not weeks, but months. But we are, unfortunately, in the middle of a church discipline case as a congregation right now. We've already hit the level of beyond just individually, the two or three, but it's now been brought to the church corporately.

00:03:25.280 And so we had a members meeting a few months ago where we reached, in Matthew 18, the tell it to the church phase.

00:03:32.060 And then the final phase is, you know, tell it to the church, and if he does not listen to the church.

00:03:35.820 And what that implies is that there would be a period of time, you know, using prudence and weighing the situation and weighing the person, their heart, and any signs of repentance that there might be.

00:03:47.020 But tell it to the church.

00:03:48.380 If he does not listen to the church, then hand him over. 1.00

00:03:52.120 Treat him as a tax collector or a Gentile, an outsider. 0.98

00:03:55.280 So you would still continue to treat them evangelistically, as we would all tax collectors 0.97

00:03:59.800 and Gentiles, but no longer as a brother or sister in Christ.

00:04:03.580 But the point is, when it says, tell it to the church, Matthew 18, it does not say that

00:04:09.000 the elders of the church should tell the church the decision that they have already rendered.

00:04:13.920 So you're not telling the church the choice that the elders have already made.

00:04:19.320 Hey, we wanted to let you know that so-and-so has been removed from our church.

00:04:22.540 note that the it in this context is not the decision but the situation not the decision

00:04:29.720 but the situation tell it that is the matter tell the matter to the church and and what you're doing

00:04:36.100 is you're then commissioning the church before the church exercises the keys of the kingdom to

00:04:42.720 actually bind or loose to actually remove the individual before that you're first telling the

00:04:48.980 church, not the decision that the elders made in an executive sense, but you're telling the church

00:04:54.200 the matter and commissioning the church to now corporately and publicly seek that person unto

00:05:01.140 repentance. So it's tell it, that is the matter to the church, not the decision. Now the church

00:05:06.200 has been commissioned to pursue and pray for this individual. And then a period of time is allotted

00:05:12.080 if during that period of time, he does not listen to the church. So now it's no longer just the

00:05:17.460 individuals or the elders appeals and pleas for repentance but the whole church now begging the

00:05:24.260 person pleading with them to repent and if as some time goes by he does not listen to the church then

00:05:30.060 then you hand him over then you're removing that individual so we have tragically we have had to

00:05:37.520 excommunicate one member from the church our church we planted in april 2021 so three and a

00:05:42.100 half years uh now existing as a church we've excommunicated one individual and we are currently

00:05:47.360 in a church discipline case with another individual um but uh the individual that we're

00:05:52.820 going to discuss today we're not going to name them because we don't want uh because here's the

00:05:56.780 deal and this is why christians i i wish that christians would be more careful um uh this is

00:06:02.420 a good christian man um i don't believe that uh that he is an impenitent sin uh there have been

00:06:08.120 some views that i would disagree with and uh some initial concerns that i had but uh here's a crazy

00:06:13.120 thought you know just throw it out there uh but uh when i had some initial concerns what i decided

00:06:17.820 to do was sit down and have a conversation with him with him yeah and actually not with somebody

00:06:23.620 else not with somebody else but with him i didn't write a blog about it i didn't do a podcast about

00:06:28.140 it i sat down privately with him and i asked him questions i said here are my concerns and so i

00:06:34.260 would like to clarify seeking clarification do you believe blank do you believe blank and i went over

00:06:40.360 a whole list of questions with the individual that we'll get to in a moment i have them still

00:06:44.460 in my phone that i used with him um seven seven different questions and uh the answers that he

00:06:49.660 gave me that i think were all thoroughly biblical and um and i have no problem and so uh but the

00:06:54.800 point is uh we this never became church system so as a church uh one church discipline case sadly

00:07:00.560 ended in excommunication. Another that we're currently in, the verdict has still not come

00:07:05.440 back in. We're praying for repentance. And then this other case that has never been

00:07:10.960 something that we have elevated to church discipline, because it is absolutely, I don't

00:07:17.500 want to be rude here, but I think it's the accurate way to frame it. It would be stupid, 0.99

00:07:24.220 absolutely stupid and ridiculous, and worse than that, I believe, by a biblical parameter, 1.00

00:07:29.100 abusive it would be pastoral abuse to put this young man under church discipline um and and i 0.99

00:07:37.140 think that'll become clear as we share some of the details of the holocaust meme fiasco should

00:07:43.220 real quick we should probably just say what the meme was yeah go ahead for those so some of you

00:07:47.160 may have seen it online um uh you know as as this has been discussed multiple notable pastors i'm

00:07:53.620 I'm not trying to pick on anybody in particular, but multiple pastors addressed this situation

00:07:59.420 and said, there's a church where this is even in Reformed churches, and there's a Reformed

00:08:06.900 church in Texas where this is going on, and a young man shared a Holocaust meme, and so

00:08:12.000 to just break the ice here, that church was my church.

00:08:15.940 That was our church, and this young man is, again, a great godly Christian man, and we're

00:08:22.860 not ashamed of it. In fact, I am proud and honored to have him as a member of my church,

00:08:27.540 because we're a church that doesn't just love people a mile to our left,

00:08:33.820 but we actually also love young men an inch to our right. Very rare these days to find a church

00:08:41.160 like that. If you're looking for one, feel free to check us out. We are in Georgetown, Texas,

00:08:46.120 about an hour north of Austin. Go to covenantbible.org, covenantbible.org, and we'd love to see

00:08:51.740 you on a Sunday for our Lord's Day worship. So a lot of guys have talked about this. And so you're

00:08:59.020 probably familiar with the meme because it was in Doug Wilson's blog. It was discussed by James

00:09:05.180 White. And these are all men that we highly respect and love. And I even had the opportunity

00:09:11.000 to talk briefly with James White on the phone and bring a little bit of clarity to him. But the

00:09:16.800 question is, well, how did it get to all these guys? I think what people assumed, and this is

00:09:20.980 one of the details that is absolutely imperative for people to know. Because if you've been

00:09:27.120 watching this story, you know, you read Doug's blog or you listened to the particular Dividing

00:09:32.320 Line episode with James White, I would assume that you think that there was a member of a

00:09:38.420 Reformed church, and now you know that was my church, that shared this meme publicly, right?

00:09:44.120 I guarantee all of you watching right now, that's what you assume. You assume he shared it on X,

00:09:48.300 right or he shared it on instagram or whatever well instagram would probably take it down but

00:09:52.360 x you know he shared it on x uh and and you know and it got retweeted by nick fuentes you know and

00:09:59.100 and got millions of views and turns out you know this insidious you know jew hatred and

00:10:04.500 nazi infatuation is actually you know the source of it comes from um a reformed church of all

00:10:10.820 places and they're you know deep within our ranks and there's rot in our bones and this is a really

00:10:15.740 well um here's the actual truth right sometimes it's helpful to have things like truth okay so

00:10:21.860 here's the actual truth um the meme was never publicly shared by this individual in our church

00:10:26.660 right he texted not shared it on social media he texted privately to a text thread of 40 people

00:10:34.860 nope two two people you know and one of these people being another man in our church a friend

00:10:42.020 of his and they both laughed because they both hold the same historical view and that was the

00:10:48.380 end of it um but the other person and this is where he messed up is he texted to his former

00:10:53.280 pastor and uh so you might be wondering well if it was private how does this show up in blog and

00:10:59.400 may block and the dividing line and all you know how is how does everybody know about this joel

00:11:04.220 that doesn't make any sense well because he texted to his former pastor where he was a member in

00:11:09.900 good standing for about a decade and personal personal friends with the pastor there yep and

00:11:17.220 he texted to his former pastor because he thought that they were friends and because not just

00:11:23.360 randomly out of the blue like haha i found something funny but he texted to him because

00:11:27.660 he had been talking with his former pastor about how his views were particularly changing on this

00:11:34.820 issue of world war ii history and that he was starting to have some serious doubts and questions

00:11:41.820 about what actually happened right in in germany in the 1940s and um and what really happened with

00:11:50.560 the jews and the bolsheviks and all these different factors that were going on and in poland

00:11:55.600 um how many prisoners of war were actually taken how many of them actually died how did they die

00:12:03.720 Was it malicious or was it that they died through starvation because Churchill cut off all trade?

00:12:11.380 And so your own people, women and children in Germany, were starving.

00:12:14.960 And when your own people are starving, the prisoners of war usually are going to get the shortest end of the stick.

00:12:22.580 And just for the record, we're not going to get into the World War II.

00:12:25.640 That's not my position.

00:12:27.400 I'm not going to share my position because here's the deal. 0.98

00:12:30.480 I don't want to be a fool. And the reality is that we're talking about history where there's

00:12:38.080 been a mainline consensus for 80 years, and I think that it's wrong. So I will say that. I

00:12:43.200 think it's wrong. How wrong and what parts of it are wrong, we're not going to divulge. And the

00:12:47.960 reason why is not because I'm afraid to talk about it, but because I would want to do a minimum 0.91

00:12:55.640 of hundreds if not thousands of hours of study before i go airing my opinions like a fool right 0.94

00:13:03.460 the fool loves to hear his own opinions he won't be quiet so this is not going to be an episode 0.58

00:13:09.160 about this is uh definitively for sure what went down right uh with the history in world war ii it 0.98

00:13:16.200 was you know it was this many millions you know or this many thousands or blah blah blah um that's

00:13:22.080 not what this podcast is about this is going to be um what i can speak to what i have spent

00:13:27.000 hundreds and thousands of hours studying is um how to be according to the word of god right a

00:13:33.520 faithful pastor right so i'm going to speak at the level of church membership and pastoral ministry

00:13:38.460 how do we love our brothers in christ who uh who realized over the last few years that they've been

00:13:45.120 lied to right about everything and all they're really doing at the end of the day is they're

00:13:49.560 applying that rubric of, well, the medical institution has lied, the media has lied,

00:13:54.520 academia has lied, the White House and politics have lied, the church and all Big Eva and all 0.55

00:13:59.880 these evangelicals were bought and paid for. You've got David French and Francis Collins and 0.69

00:14:04.300 Russell Moore. And so every single, right, in the last four or five years, a bunch of young men

00:14:10.260 have realized every single credible person in their life lied to them. And so they're just

00:14:17.300 begging the question uh well then what else was i lied about and part of the reason just for the

00:14:22.120 record that they're questioning particularly world war ii is because historically it doesn't take

00:14:25.740 right this is something that is it's not like it's not some deep conspiracy that you know only

00:14:30.600 14 people in the entire world are privileged to we're talking about something that anybody with

00:14:35.580 a history book can look back and and certainly that you know the victors get you know to the

00:14:40.320 victors go the spoils they get to write the history book so you can have questions about

00:14:43.680 the history and that can be really hard to find the actual true history of what went down um and

00:14:48.380 and i suspect that there will always be certain questions because well so-and-so said this okay

00:14:51.960 but so-and-so said that and you know and so you can read you know pat buchanan the unnecessary war

00:14:56.360 you know uh hitler and churchill um uh but you know and and that was you know it was a new york

00:15:01.600 time bestseller and 15 years ago and that's essentially what what uh daryl cooper said on

00:15:06.660 tucker carlson you know a few weeks back uh marty made uh part uh marty made uh podcast um he was

00:15:13.580 basically if you're wondering like uh where can i read more about that well you you know you could

00:15:17.880 pretty much get everything that daryl cooper said in that two-hour interview you could have gotten

00:15:22.100 it 15 years ago from pat buchanan's book which again was a new york times bestseller so we're

00:15:26.180 not talking about um some some crazy crazy far alt-right views that you know you should be locked

00:15:32.240 up in jail um pat buchanan you can disagree with them you can find him controversial but uh he was

00:15:37.480 not some he was conservative but he was not some far right you know um hitler apologist right he

00:15:44.460 was not he was no um nazi fan um so these are these are not this is not the mainline consensus

00:15:50.220 about world war ii which that's the problem um but uh but these these are still uh pretty

00:15:55.940 widely spread ideas and so my point is uh uh i'm not saying it's easy to find out the actual

00:16:01.780 history but i'm saying all these young men who red-pilled in 2020 it is fairly easy though for

00:16:06.720 them to look at history and find out um uh that we had 1500 years of chrysidom right and and then

00:16:14.220 and then for the last 80 years since world war ii uh we uh allegedly won right and yet all of the

00:16:23.960 west looks like it lost yep that's what's going on as young men are saying so you're telling me

00:16:28.700 we won the war uh but since then we've murdered 70 million children in the womb just in the united 0.78

00:16:36.340 states yep and we're cutting off the genitals of little kids and we are flooding our nations 0.95

00:16:42.620 and uh diluting the cultures and the heritages and with foreign immigrants tearing down statues 1.00

00:16:50.120 and we're selling cathedrals and turning them to mosques right and we and we have you know uh we 0.97

00:16:56.180 have fascism is not prevalent the boogeyman of fascism right is sure but in terms of actual

00:17:03.480 threats fascism is not one of them and not not the united states not at this time but we have

00:17:08.920 communism and marxism right that are rampant everywhere so you're so you're telling me we

00:17:13.800 won it doesn't feel like it yeah doesn't feel like we want that's that's what's going on if

00:17:18.420 you're wondering well why the why the new fascination and why this and why that um why

00:17:22.780 are young men you know thinking these things well you know what wes couldn't be here but he he had

00:17:28.220 to you know try to get his input um on the show somehow so he sent us something uh wes kind of

00:17:33.240 i i think addressed this question well he wrote this up for me and michael to read on his behest

00:17:37.300 can you read it real quick so uh this is uh this is a commentary on you know why maybe it's worth

00:17:45.380 looking into some of these things and why some of the young men in our time are are re-evaluating

00:17:49.560 at this. So these are Wes's words. He says, one important fact that is important to remember is

00:17:54.580 that there were some good things that happened in 1930s Germany. Early book burnings burned Jewish 0.92

00:18:00.340 pornography and transgender literature, which, by the way, there was a huge push to spread

00:18:07.480 transgenderism and homosexuality throughout Germany in the 1930s. So book burnings were

00:18:14.020 banning Jewish pornography and transgender literature, and later policies promoted the 0.88

00:18:18.400 nuclear family through forgivable loans while there was a general acceptance of Christianity

00:18:23.720 throughout Germany. These items are things we wish we had, and even would support now.

00:18:31.220 Men are drawn to the vision of Germany because it was one of the few, if not the only places,

00:18:36.980 that actually rebuffed and defeated communism and liberalism. We will get a lot farther by

00:18:43.120 acknowledging 1930s Germany had some upsides, and we can understand why those living in the 0.72

00:18:49.080 equivalent of the Weimar Republic long for the symbolism of the strength and the will to reject

00:18:55.200 degeneracy. And so his point is, in a certain sense, there was a concerted effort to push back

00:19:02.040 against extreme moral degeneracy, similar to what we see now. Right. And then Wes went, you might

00:19:08.320 i've actually read it here okay the however portion yep so and i thought this was yep wise

00:19:13.740 so go ahead and read that he says however so this is this is we're not jumping into the same path

00:19:19.580 that germany went down however the u.s has a rich political history and we don't need to import

00:19:25.780 20th century german political programs in order to beat liberalism although liberalism must be

00:19:31.980 beaten it has to yeah our history is older stronger more christian and more robust than

00:19:37.340 germany's germany is a unique european country that is geographically smaller than texas our

00:19:42.660 solution to communism will have to be american made and suited for our national situation yep

00:19:47.820 i thought that that was well written so that that's uh that's uh wesley todd piping in yeah

00:19:53.520 um so so back to you know so that i think that's part of why young men are are begging the question

00:19:59.920 and saying well did we really win did the good guys really win you know um is this is this you

00:20:06.340 And if so, then why has everything gotten worse?

00:20:08.920 Why are we further from God, further from tradition,

00:20:11.620 further families are more fractured,

00:20:14.640 all these different things.

00:20:15.760 And that, in a nutshell,

00:20:16.980 you've probably heard a lot of guys talk about

00:20:18.580 the post-war consensus, the post-war consensus.

00:20:21.220 That's been a big theme over the last year and a half

00:20:23.660 that a lot of guys have done a lot of great,

00:20:26.140 put out a lot of great content in regards to.

00:20:28.640 The first time that I heard the post-war consensus,

00:20:31.100 that phrase being used was R.R. Reno.

00:20:33.060 And his book that I read about a year and a half ago, when all the usual suspects were reading, you know, it's almost like we have a synced up calendar.

00:20:42.840 It's like we're reading about the Crusades, you know, it's Rodney Stark, you know, now, you know, we're reading R.R. Reno.

00:20:48.740 But his book was Return of the Strong Gods, lowercase g gods, and he wasn't talking about the strong gods as in pagan gods of mythology.

00:20:59.240 So he wasn't saying like the return of Thor or Poseidon, you know, he was talking about

00:21:04.140 the strong gods for Reno and the way that he described it was he was saying the strong

00:21:09.340 gods are things like tradition, religion, patriarchy.

00:21:14.660 The natural forces.

00:21:15.660 Yeah, exactly.

00:21:16.520 Nature.

00:21:17.060 Yep.

00:21:17.420 Exactly.

00:21:17.980 Those things which are grounded in the natural order.

00:21:20.840 So it's religion, it's tradition, it's patriarchy, hierarchy, and it's nationalism, as opposed

00:21:28.760 to the weak gods would be things like uh instead of tradition it's um it's progressivism yep

00:21:34.600 instead of religion it's uh science and we know as christians that science and religion aren't at

00:21:40.180 odds or secularism but it's thus you know hashtag the science tm you know follow that like it's not

00:21:46.540 actually science it's silence as science but as a as a uh not not a practice or a study but as a

00:21:53.420 god yeah science as a as a deity so it's uh instead of tradition it's progressivism instead of

00:21:59.240 religion it's science and secularism instead of uh family it's the individual um instead of

00:22:05.600 patriarchy uh and hierarchy it's um it's feminism and egalitarianism and then of course a big one 0.97

00:22:12.280 is instead of nationalism it's globalism yes right so it's what what is it it's trash world

00:22:17.620 the weak gods are if you summed them all up globalism science uh egalitarianism everybody's

00:22:25.260 not just equal opportunity but um uh but but everybody is the same and we should force equal

00:22:31.380 outcomes uh this egalitarian feministic um globalistic um progressive you know uh milieu 0.85

00:22:40.700 that we're swimming in that that is what we would call trash world that's that's our conference

00:22:44.960 that's coming up you know how to defeat trash world uh and and according to reno's uh language

00:22:50.400 how to defeat the the weak gods and if you were to sum all those weak gods up into you know what

00:22:56.400 what um what do they do what do they accomplish what's the purpose the weak gods are the gods of

00:23:02.700 inclusivism right that's what they are the weak gods are openness openness inclusivism um never

00:23:10.540 never uh never telling someone that they don't belong never uh never telling someone that they're

00:23:16.420 wrong it's uh the weak gods are against objective truth right they're against transcendent realities

00:23:22.340 uh the weak gods are it's relativism it's this is that so the weak gods are are what do they

00:23:28.160 lend themselves towards um nations without borders um a a full-scale invasion of immigration

00:23:36.940 um polytheism yeah um secularism multiculturalism multiculturalism like all like all these things

00:23:44.160 uh women you know in every position of leadership women in combat roles in the military women 0.93

00:23:49.260 police officers women secret agents women vice presidents right exactly the secret service women 1.00

00:23:54.920 vice presidents women you know if they could uh president um at at every single level um that's

00:24:01.180 what that's what the weak gods are and the weak gods i i think of you know like david and saul 0.84

00:24:06.000 You know, the women were singing when David comes back from war.

00:24:09.020 You know, Saul has killed his thousands and David has tens of thousands.

00:24:11.800 Well, if the strong gods killed their millions, the weak gods have killed their hundreds of millions. 0.79

00:24:17.440 So if Hitler did, in fact, kill his millions, and let's just say he did, I don't have a strong position on it. 0.74

00:24:23.020 I tend to think that the numbers are exaggerated. 0.81

00:24:25.040 I don't think that they're made up whole cloth, but I do think that they're probably a little bit high.

00:24:30.500 But that being said, let's just go with it.

00:24:32.980 if hitler killed his millions mal killed his hundred millions yeah um and so uh these strong

00:24:39.460 gods of of a deep patriotic nationalism and and religious undertones instead of it just being

00:24:47.500 secular non-religious you know um and and uh tradition and family and and father rule patriarchy

00:24:56.020 versus egalitarianism and individualism everyone's this uh you know everyone's an atom this atomistic

00:25:03.800 view of mankind um if the strong gods of hitler killed their millions uh then the weak gods on

00:25:12.700 the left which all of them but you know like what kind of how do you sum that up it's inclusivism

00:25:18.560 it's also here's another word it's communism all these weak gods were uh the virtues pushed by

00:25:25.200 every major communist leader uh that uh that we've seen in in the past several centuries

00:25:32.840 in in western history and so this this is the bolsheviks um this is um this is uh like i said

00:25:42.320 mal this is stalin mussolini this is like all these all these guys uh you know lenin um that 0.63

00:25:48.900 they're these are the weak gods and although uh the united states and great britain you know

00:25:54.380 one ultimately world war ii the virtues right of the strong gods that are rooted in a natural order 0.99

00:26:01.920 uh they lost they lost and the weak gods of of the gay global homo you know agenda absolutely won 0.98

00:26:11.720 yep um you you have uh europe has since world war ii um france is is barely even a country 0.99

00:26:20.280 anymore. And within a few decades, we'll be entirely Muslim if something doesn't change. 0.98

00:26:27.860 England is on its way. It's 10% Muslim, I think, at this point, and it's well on its way to catch 1.00

00:26:32.780 up with France. And eventually, there will be no English country. Did you hear that just recently 0.99

00:26:38.520 they announced that the House of Lords in England, which they have two houses, they have House of

00:26:43.500 Commons, House of Lords, and the House of Lords has not had a whole lot of power for a long time,

00:26:47.780 but it's represented the tradition of noble families who are charged with ruling the nation,

00:26:56.160 stewarding the resources of the nation. It was just announced that they are going to cease

00:27:00.880 the hereditary seats of the House of Lords altogether, because it's not fair to those 0.99

00:27:06.600 who are newly come to the country. Yeah, that's stupid. So that's exactly what we're talking 1.00

00:27:11.780 about. These are the weak gods. And so guys are starting to think, well, wait a second,

00:27:15.980 Like nationalism, maybe nationalism is a good idea.

00:27:20.560 I mean, at the end of the day, Acts chapter 17, nations are God's ideas, God's idea in

00:27:25.200 the first place.

00:27:25.800 God's the one who sets their times and their borders.

00:27:29.320 Nations actually do have borders and they, in the providence of God, they come into origin

00:27:34.660 at a particular time and when God sees fit, nations rise and fall within God's providential

00:27:41.000 plan.

00:27:41.460 So nations are a good idea.

00:27:42.860 certainly religion particularly the christian religion the worship of the triune god is a good

00:27:47.480 idea patriarchy is god's design for the world hierarchy is inescapable we're not all the same

00:27:53.420 we all are equal as as it pertains to intrinsic dignity and value in an eternal sense in the sight

00:28:00.940 of god the slave is no less than the master the wife is no less than the husband the children no

00:28:05.700 less than the parents we all have as image bearers of the living god an intrinsic equal dignity

00:28:11.480 and eternal value and worth, but that does not mean that we're all the same and that we're all

00:28:18.760 equal in a temporal, earthly fashion. There are generals and there are foot soldiers. There are

00:28:23.520 kings and there are paupers. There are husbands and wives and children and so on and so forth, 0.99

00:28:29.640 and this is inescapable. These are not the results of the curse of sin. We would have had

00:28:36.180 kings if Adam and Eve had never sinned in the first place. This is not the result of the fall.

00:28:42.660 This is actually God's good design. The result of the fall is that kings are often corrupt,

00:28:47.300 and they abuse their powers. But kings in themselves are not the fall. There would be

00:28:53.500 a government. Nations would have civil magistrates. It's like, well, there'd be no crime to punish,

00:28:59.240 and no foreign... Yeah, but somebody would still have to decide, do we drive on the right side of 0.95

00:29:02.860 road or the left side of the road, there would still be, okay, we're going to pay taxes. How 0.96

00:29:07.140 much? And what are we paying taxes on? And these things would be done without sin. They'd be done

00:29:12.200 righteously, but they would still have to be done. There would be still positions of authority. The

00:29:16.840 fifth commandment would still be a commandment whether Adam and Eve had ever sinned or not.

00:29:21.400 There would still be deference and honor that is obligatory to show to fathers and to mothers,

00:29:27.480 for that matter so um all these things um that that's they're they're coming rushing back 0.90

00:29:33.440 basically um gay gay globalism has overplayed its hand secular humanism has overplayed its hand 0.93

00:29:41.120 um these last few years it was kind of like slowly boiling the frog alive and then all of a sudden 0.97

00:29:47.500 the left got cocky turned up the heat and a lot of the frogs stayed in because all their nerve

00:29:52.560 endings were already melted away and they couldn't even feel it they were they were basically dead

00:29:56.340 But there were some frogs that were damaged, you know, but they at least had enough nerve endings still functional to where they could feel this spike, this quick spike in the heat, and they've jumped out of the pot.

00:30:08.080 And now they're looking around the room for the first time, you know, and it's like the Matrix, you know, they finally have, you know, taken the red pill and gotten unplugged and looking at the real world.

00:30:17.840 And they're like, whoa, it's bad.

00:30:19.380 It's really, really, really bad.

00:30:21.500 And so then they're begging the question, where did it get off track?

00:30:24.200 And there's an argument to be made for, you know, you can go all the way back and say, well, Adam and Eve in the garden, you know.

00:30:30.240 Oh, yeah.

00:30:30.880 You know, but there's also something to be said for, well, we really got off track with the Enlightenment.

00:30:35.680 I think in America, I think that we got off track with the Civil War.

00:30:40.260 I think there was some, so you talk about, you know, revisionist history.

00:30:43.860 We're going to have to go back and look at the Civil War.

00:30:46.840 But then also, I think a lot of guys have noticed that one of the major worldwide, right, because it's not just the United States.

00:30:53.140 It's not just the U.S.

00:30:53.920 Exactly. You're looking at Europe and you see the same problems and they're even exasperated. And so guys are looking like, well, what was a global event? And in recent, you know, collective memory, World War I and World War II.

00:31:08.120 and so guys are looking back and they're saying what really happened if we won if the west won

00:31:13.340 why does it feel like we lost why has everything gone to crap and so uh some guys are are going

00:31:20.100 uh perhaps too far with that but i think you could see why um why you might want to be a little

00:31:26.340 sympathetic and saying yeah i i get it i i get why you're coming to these conclusions and then

00:31:32.060 the solution is well let's talk about it right let's talk about it so all that being said back

00:31:36.720 to this meme and this particular member of our church.

00:31:38.880 I want to say one other thing about that before you move on.

00:31:40.680 So I think the sad reality is that people, young men who are noticing that the World

00:31:51.000 War II narrative has been used to weaken and undermine Christendom and Western values,

00:31:59.920 traditional Western values, the ones who are seeing that, the sad reality is they have

00:32:04.620 to look at pre-World War II Germany to find an example of a nation that sought to defend its

00:32:12.740 order, its borders. It was a Christian nation before that, had Christian values, and people

00:32:20.100 are having to look at pre-World War I Germany to find a nation that was resisting some of these

00:32:25.640 pushes. And you will say to me, well, the U.S. fought communism in the Cold War. You know that

00:32:31.160 the cia when it was quote unquote fighting communism it was doing things like promoting

00:32:37.020 jackson pollock paintings right our solution to communism was not biblical virtue and piety

00:32:44.700 it was let's pursue and push rampant self-expression sexual expression sexual freedom

00:32:52.640 communism is stiff and rigorous and stuffy and so we're going to paint ourselves as the

00:32:58.920 the libertines and the free yeah the laissez-faire we're going to be that we're going to out free

00:33:04.700 them we're going to out individual them and we we did win the cold war but it wasn't through

00:33:09.820 christian values and virtues right it was by it's through individualism and relativism yes and so

00:33:15.300 we have to look look at how happy and free we are we have to look all the way back and so that's

00:33:19.940 what some of these guys are saying these young men are saying why aren't the nations now if

00:33:24.320 you're so concerned about what i'm posting why aren't you fighting against my nation my pastor

00:33:30.100 my city my family why aren't you fighting against the utter destruction of western values and culture

00:33:37.440 right yeah and by god's grace a lot of faithful ministers are absolutely you know at least in

00:33:42.740 our camp and our tribe and uh there are a lot of guys who are fighting that um and they see it as 0.89

00:33:49.040 just um useful idiots at best and you know feds you know and uh controlled opposition at worst 0.97

00:33:58.900 right um so they see it as like no we are fighting communism we are fighting uh these kinds of things 1.00

00:34:03.720 and you know the faking gay trash world and um and you guys are not helping our cause um and 1.00

00:34:11.220 i understand that i understand that i think the question is um okay but how then how do we deal 0.99

00:34:19.080 with someone who has some really legitimate questions and and i think the more that we say

00:34:24.820 well you can't you can't uh you can't look in to these things yes right like i just i know

00:34:31.260 how young men think i you know at this point i'm 38 years old i'm not that young but but it wasn't

00:34:36.700 that long ago that i was and um i know how young men think and and when uh when they have not just

00:34:42.900 one or two individuals but they have almost like the entire world all in unison simultaneously

00:34:48.040 saying um uh you must never go there it's like mufasa and simba that dark shadowy place you

00:34:54.240 must never go there well then you know they go there yeah and so and then they go there alone

00:34:59.140 and unguided they go there alone and the reality is there is no reasonable responsible um biblically

00:35:05.740 equipped uh older man who uh seems to be willing to go with them and to have those kinds of

00:35:14.320 conversations um that are important and the post-war consensus which in a nutshell is basically

00:35:21.320 just saying everything i don't like is hitler and that's right and all the things that i don't like

00:35:25.860 which are hitler you know that you know trump is hitler this is hitler that's hitler joel's hitler 0.64

00:35:30.200 you know whatever all these things are that i don't like are hitler and and what what's the 0.54

00:35:34.300 common denominator the common thread running throughout all these things that you don't like

00:35:38.020 that you're calling hitler um they're old things traditional things they're religious things instead

00:35:43.680 of you know secular things uh they're things that have a natural order and hierarchy um they're

00:35:48.780 things that are usually distinctly masculine patriarchy and not feminism um and and they're

00:35:54.240 things that um that are uh hold to a strong patriotic national sense instead of this i'm a

00:36:01.500 citizen of the world man you know like globalism right and uh and so that's that's where we are is

00:36:07.760 the the post-war consensus has been operating at full strength for 80 years and has kept everybody

00:36:15.120 plugged into the matrix where they're you know their eyes are rolled back in their head and

00:36:18.940 nobody nobody sees what's going on but the spell is lifting yeah and i think that largely on the

00:36:25.000 whole sure there are some abuses and sure there are some um uh some there will be some individuals 0.94

00:36:31.000 who go too far and are foolish. 0.96

00:36:33.640 But by and large, 0.99

00:36:34.660 I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

00:36:37.440 I don't want us to miss the big picture.

00:36:38.980 The post-war consensus, like a spell,

00:36:41.560 is lifting after 80 years.

00:36:43.580 It's like winter.

00:36:44.480 Winter is lifting in Army.

00:36:45.780 Always winter, never Christmas.

00:36:47.320 It's almost been 100 years.

00:36:48.780 The post-war consensus is lifting, 0.98

00:36:50.340 and this is a good thing. 0.96

00:36:52.440 So the big picture is white pills in the chat.

00:36:55.540 We should be encouraged. 0.95

00:36:56.540 This is a good thing.

00:36:58.360 And then what do we do?

00:37:00.060 so that, you know, the guys don't, you know, start, you know, painting swastika, you know,

00:37:05.460 getting swastika tattoos on their arms and stuff like that. Well, what we do is we say, yeah,

00:37:09.420 the post-war consensus really, really was bad. But we don't need to be Nazis. The Nazis were bad.

00:37:16.140 The Bolsheviks were also very bad, arguably worse. But the Bolsheviks being maybe worse 0.99

00:37:23.220 doesn't mean that the Nazis were good. We don't have to have that simplistic of a view of history. 0.69

00:37:29.240 Well, I found out there was actually another bad guy.

00:37:31.500 Uh-huh, yeah. 0.98

00:37:32.560 And so then the guy that I thought previously was a bad guy must actually be the last Christian prince, and it's done no wrong. 0.87

00:37:38.920 It's like, you know, seated before Christ, you know, there's 13 thrones for the 12 apostles and then Hitler's on it. 0.93

00:37:45.200 Like, no, I don't think we have to adopt that as our new view. 0.99

00:37:48.640 I think that's foolish. 0.99

00:37:50.820 Nazis were bad, and so were the Bolsheviks. 0.99

00:37:54.120 And, you know, we don't want communism.

00:37:56.020 We need to beat communism.

00:37:57.340 You're not going, in my assessment, and I think you agree, we're not going to beat communism with classical liberalism.

00:38:03.000 Classical liberalism does not have the fortitude and the strength, the teeth, to beat communism.

00:38:09.660 That's why it's losing.

00:38:10.900 That's why it's losing.

00:38:11.780 And it's been losing for quite a long time, a lot longer than just 80 years. 0.58

00:38:16.080 So what we're going to need is we're going to need a foolproof Christian political theology.

00:38:24.760 Yep. 0.62

00:38:25.640 And here's the deal. 0.74

00:38:27.340 pre-World War I and World War II Germany was pretty good. 0.91

00:38:32.580 It was for 12 years.

00:38:33.880 I mean, it was 12 years of unparalleled prosperity.

00:38:37.240 Every single kid, if you had a kid,

00:38:39.100 you got 25% off of all taxes.

00:38:41.060 So if you had four kids, you paid no taxes in Germany. 0.97

00:38:43.400 The women were happy. 0.93

00:38:44.720 The men were happy.

00:38:45.680 The children were happy.

00:38:47.680 And so I get why guys go there.

00:38:49.660 But here's the deal.

00:38:51.140 Number one, that's not the National Socialistic Party

00:38:55.540 of the Nazis that came later. 0.77

00:38:57.340 And two, we don't need Germany. 0.55

00:39:01.740 We have, and so here I'm going to show my own nationalistic pride, 0.78

00:39:06.700 I don't need Germany.

00:39:08.480 We're Americans.

00:39:09.440 That's right.

00:39:09.980 America, baby.

00:39:10.780 We have the richest tradition you could possibly ask for right here

00:39:14.800 in these United States of America.

00:39:17.180 Apple pie, baseball, and cheeses.

00:39:19.500 We've got the whole nine yards, everything that we need, and John Wayne.

00:39:23.160 This is America.

00:39:24.280 Yeah. We can look to the Puritans, we can look to the Reformers and the ones who came over here, 0.93

00:39:32.580 we can look to George Washington and John Adams and all these things. We can look to,

00:39:36.820 even before 1776, we can look to the 13 colonies and we can look to, we have this rich doctrine of

00:39:44.840 a Christian civil magistrate right here in these United States of America to be our guide that is

00:39:51.600 strongly national. That's not this gay, no borders, and globo homo, you know, whatever. It's national, 0.99

00:39:58.480 it's religious, it's distinctly Christian, it is absolutely patriarchal. All the things that we

00:40:05.980 want, we can recover, and we can recover it here without any, no swastikas necessary.

00:40:14.360 It's a pretty good deal. So all that being said, again, so then how did this meme get out to where

00:40:19.800 all these guys have seen it in doug wilson's blog and with uh james white on the dividing line and

00:40:24.660 all you know this this meme that you know that is uh this sinister insidious meme that's been

00:40:29.780 shared in in reformed churches it was texted to two people one of them being another member in

00:40:35.760 our church who he's friends with texting it to a friend the other being his former pastor who is

00:40:40.760 a pastor in germany and i'm going to name him because he's gone on several shows i didn't want

00:40:45.600 to do this but he's gone on several different podcasts naming me so his name is tobias and

00:40:50.800 he's a pastor in frankfurt germany of a reformed baptist church we have had i've been friendly in

00:40:56.520 the past yeah um i i love him i think he's a great man and a great pastor um but i think he botched

00:41:03.720 it on this one and so he's talking to this former member of his church who's now a member of my

00:41:09.300 church and at some point in the conversation uh this member in our church he sends this meme so

00:41:15.760 what is the meme it's a 1950s kind of setting uh black and white sketch uh animation like

00:41:22.340 rocker fella you know kind of um style of a mother who's baking and her daughter who's sitting at the

00:41:28.800 kitchen table and the daughter says mom what's the holocaust and the mom answers and says oh

00:41:33.100 sweetheart that's the one time in history that jews had to do manual labor and so they claimed

00:41:37.700 that it killed them so he shares this meme um and he and here's the deal uh with this former pastor

00:41:44.700 and the former pastor loses his mind and um he comes to me and i end up having a two-hour uh

00:41:53.060 zoom call with him and all of his elders and this member of my church who's a member of your church

00:41:57.840 he's a member of my church now but we're meeting with this other church and all all of his former

00:42:02.860 elders where he is no longer a member and him myself and this member of our church now we're

00:42:09.700 we're two hours the first hour we're just quiet and just listening to all their many many concerns

00:42:15.280 and then and then we are addressing their concerns we spent the last hour telling it well here's our

00:42:21.040 view on this here's our view on that well since that meeting it didn't i thought that that would

00:42:25.280 be the end of it i thought you know that but uh since that meeting uh tobias has gone on several

00:42:29.900 different people's podcasts, some of them well-known, and continuing to talk about the

00:42:33.980 situation. Because honestly, I don't think Tobias will be satisfied unless this member of my church

00:42:41.980 is excommunicated. He wants this member of my church, him and his wife, who agrees with her

00:42:48.660 husband and their children, to be kicked out of our church. And I just want to say publicly right

00:42:53.520 now um just in case it wasn't clear not going to happen not going to happen um you cannot say

00:43:02.280 dance monkey excommunicate um i'm sorry i won't do that and this is why the young men will continue

00:43:08.540 to come to me and no one will remember your name and i wish that wasn't the case i really do i wish 0.51

00:43:15.920 it wasn't the case i want better for you brother um but uh i can't i can't stop you from shooting

00:43:24.420 yourself in the foot so here we are so um that was the meme and how did it become so public and

00:43:31.780 in well-known pastor's blogs um because he shared it privately with his former pastor

00:43:36.680 and that former pastor talked to me but then he also went and talked to everyone else

00:43:42.100 to dozens of other pastors

00:43:46.160 about his former church member

00:43:50.840 who is now in another Reformed Baptist church

00:43:54.420 and his pastor is fully aware

00:43:56.160 and dealing with the situation.

00:43:58.240 All the elders in our church know the situation.

00:44:00.940 We have talked to this individual,

00:44:02.660 love this individual,

00:44:03.780 asking him the right questions

00:44:04.960 and walking him through it.

00:44:06.620 In other words,

00:44:07.780 it wasn't anybody else's business.

00:44:09.740 I understand if he shared it on X publicly

00:44:11.980 and everybody saw and it got picked up by nick fuentes and millions of people were seeing it you

00:44:15.580 know and all these other reformed christians were coming out and saying yeah we love hitler and like

00:44:21.580 then okay then you might need to address it um in that public uh in that public format but that is

00:44:27.780 not what happened and everybody who knows what i'm talking about until right now us doing this episode

00:44:32.640 uh they probably naturally i would have assumed the same thing they probably all assumed that this

00:44:37.120 was a meme that was shared publicly and that's the crazy and i believe tragic irony is that everyone

00:44:43.120 assumes that it's being publicly treated because it was publicly shared and it wasn't right it was

00:44:48.200 texted privately to two people one of those being your former pastor where you remember in good

00:44:54.320 standing for almost a decade standing and left in good standing and you were there for almost a

00:44:58.740 decade yeah and and you had no idea like i like like somebody could have asked him before all

00:45:05.680 this happened and said, Hey, I bet your former pastor, you know, goes and talks to dozens of

00:45:09.600 other pastors. And then those pastors put it in their blogs and in their podcasts to where

00:45:13.500 thousands and tens of thousands of people are aware of the situation. You could have told this

00:45:17.560 member in our church that before it all happened. He, and he would have laughed at you and said,

00:45:21.160 my former pastor would have, he would never do that. These guys would never do that. These are

00:45:25.560 good, strong, godly men. They would never do that. And sadly, boy, would he have been wrong.

00:45:31.380 he would have been wrong so um tobias reached out to me recently and uh you know still concerned

00:45:37.560 because i'm not being hard enough um what okay we'll do in just one moment uh but concerned

00:45:44.340 because i'm not being hard enough on this individual in our church and so i responded

00:45:47.520 again trying to get peace and trying to bring um some resolution and and to assure him for his

00:45:53.200 conscience i understand as a pastor he's not a member of my church but if there are people that

00:45:57.300 i pastored for several years and even if they're not a member of my church any longer i still you

00:46:01.780 know um feel some sense of pastoral responsibility for them so i get that i'm sympathetic to that

00:46:06.760 so i'm trying to reassure him and so i respond and said tobias um i already had a virtual meeting

00:46:12.500 for over two hours with you and all of your elders at your church i sat there quietly for the first

00:46:17.700 hour and then i responded clearly to every single one of your concerns and then i listed them out

00:46:23.020 including my answers number one no we absolutely do not hate jews neither i the church the leaders

00:46:29.900 or this young man who's now a member of my church and used to be a member in your church

00:46:34.020 no we absolutely do not hate jews two yes we believe that jews can be saved and there are some

00:46:41.440 there are some who actually have gone as far as to publicly say christians that uh jews cannot

00:46:48.260 convert and we would say respectfully you're wrong that is not biblical you cannot defend that

00:46:56.420 biblically you can say that certain people groups on the whole in a general sense not each and every

00:47:02.960 individual but certain people groups on the whole in particular times throughout the gospel age

00:47:08.400 throughout church history have a particular unique hardness of heart towards the gospel

00:47:14.580 and therefore are less likely to be saved, like the Jews at the time of Paul. 1.00

00:47:19.940 That's precisely why he became an apostle to the Gentiles, apart from, of course, the 0.96

00:47:24.140 divine calling of God, calling him to be an apostle to the Gentiles. 0.85

00:47:27.100 But one of the ways that God called him away from the Jews to the Gentiles was providentially 0.84

00:47:31.140 by hardening the hearts of the Jews.

00:47:32.980 That doesn't mean no Jews were saved.

00:47:34.780 We know that 3,000 were added to the faith at Pentecost with Peter, and there's still, 0.89

00:47:38.760 as Paul is going off and ministering to the Gentiles, there's still, you know, HQ right

00:47:43.280 there in Jerusalem with Peter and James and John, the apostles, and many Jews are still being saved. 0.85

00:47:47.980 Now, the Jews being saved at that time, you could liken it to a trickle with the Jews, 0.69

00:47:55.560 but there is a trickle. There's still a flow of people coming to the true Mount Zion, coming to 0.76

00:48:01.220 Christ. And whereas it's a waterfall, it's a surge among the Gentiles where Paul goes. And so Paul 0.98

00:48:08.880 talks about a partial hardness of heart for a time now for me and this just another thing that's

00:48:15.180 helpful for us to address in this episode is you know for our church just so that people are aware

00:48:20.120 um i i i've pretty much always been my my just general disposition as a pastor and as a person

00:48:29.300 is to be ecumenical lowercase c catholic uh so when it comes to baptism paedo or credo baptism

00:48:35.240 um i i just i i'm i'm i'm not interested in having uh the arguments every every five minutes about

00:48:43.760 baptism i completely understand the pedo-baptist argument and i am even open and have been actively

00:48:49.120 searching for a qualified solid godly man who is pedo-baptist to be a co-pastor or one of the

00:48:55.220 elders with us at the church so that we could accommodate both positions a lowercase c baptismal

00:49:00.460 catholicity so ecumenical and so too on the romans 11 uh jewish issue of israel so michael right now

00:49:08.680 is um an elder candidate with our church and lord willing will be ordained towards the end of this

00:49:13.580 year and we disagree on this michael to be fair to michael he holds uh what i would uh happily admit

00:49:21.120 is the lion's share uh view of the puritans and the reformers right uh meaning uh what is that

00:49:27.320 view? Well, neither of us are dispensational. That, I think, is too far and would be unhelpful.

00:49:31.480 That level of division would be unhelpful for a church. So, we're both Reformed, just like

00:49:36.340 Credo Baptist Reformed versus Pedro, like still within the ballpark of Reformed, but, you know,

00:49:42.560 but dispensational is not even close. So, Michael holds the view that there's no future land

00:49:48.800 promises, physical promises in the future for Israel, but that there is a future spiritual

00:49:54.380 promise that there will be a great revival for those who are Israel by the flesh, that they will

00:50:01.600 come and become true Israel, be grafted into the true root who is Christ through faith, and that

00:50:06.760 there'll be a great future revival among Israel. Whereas I and other guys like Andrew Isker, you

00:50:11.840 know, or the Ogden guys, Brian Sauve and Eric Kahn, we would hold towards, we'd be of the persuasion

00:50:18.880 of a partial preterist, preterist meaning past or fulfilled hermeneutic applied to Romans 11,

00:50:24.780 that Paul is saying that this time period where there's this partial hardening of the Jews

00:50:28.860 was a short period of time and that it was during the interim period after the finished work of

00:50:34.460 Christ and before AD 70 in the destruction of the temple. And so, for approximately 40 years,

00:50:39.500 there was a partial hardening on the Jews so that much more Gentiles were coming in and much fewer

00:50:43.160 Jews, but then leading up to AD 70, and especially at AD 70, that the Jewish people saw this great

00:50:49.280 fulfillment to everything that Jesus said in Matthew 24, the Olivet Discourse, that not one 0.77

00:50:53.860 stone of the temple would stand on another, and they saw this as a very, you know, this generation

00:50:57.980 did not pass away, they saw it as a fulfillment to Christ's words, and that the spiritual revival

00:51:02.220 that Paul references for the Jewish people according to the flesh in Romans 11, that spiritual

00:51:06.840 revival was future for Paul at the time of his writing of Romans, probably around AD 55, but is

00:51:12.520 actually in our distant past that that happened in 80 70 and so today um my position and others

00:51:18.440 jim jordan james jordan with the crec this would be his position most of us got it from him that's

00:51:23.660 true but that their position um and my position is that um that there is no future land or physical

00:51:30.800 promises for israel but there's also not a future spiritual promise for israel um because that

00:51:36.340 actually that too has already been fulfilled and that today there are no promises uh left that uh

00:51:41.740 the covenant is done, and that even ethnically, that the waters have been muddied, and that there

00:51:47.520 are Christians in Palestine that can take DNA tests and match it up with 2,000-year-old catacombs 0.83

00:51:53.760 that have been found under Jerusalem and find that they actually have an even stronger match 0.72

00:51:58.080 than some Ashkenazi Jews. And then you've got the black Hebrew Israelites, which I think is 0.64

00:52:03.980 ridiculous, saying, we're the true Jews. And then you've got some guys, Christian identity is what 0.97

00:52:09.160 it's called, and certain, you know, historic KKK members held to this view that, well,

00:52:14.760 the Lost Ten Tribes, where did they disperse?

00:52:16.780 They dispersed above the Caucasus Mountains, hint, hint, Caucasus, they became Caucasians, 0.82

00:52:21.600 Europeans, turns out white people, you know, so black Hebrew Israelites are black people 0.51

00:52:24.880 are the true Jews, and then there are some, not many, but some who believe white people 0.64

00:52:28.380 are the true Israelites, and then there, you know, there's an argument to be made for

00:52:32.960 Palestinians, you know, not all of them, but some, and then argument to be made for, and 0.94

00:52:37.020 And so my point is, I think that ethnically and covenantally and every other possible 0.98

00:52:41.720 way that you could imagine, it's done.

00:52:43.580 So the point is, you think that there's going to be a revival in our future.

00:52:47.720 I think that just for the record, this nation state called Israel, whoever they are, it

00:52:52.420 really doesn't matter.

00:52:53.480 It's still a legitimate nation state.

00:52:55.280 It has a right to defend itself.

00:52:56.920 It shouldn't be wiped off of the map.

00:52:58.440 I think it was a bad idea to put them there geographically in the first place.

00:53:01.660 It's like putting a minnow in a tank of sharks. 0.63

00:53:03.840 I don't think that's a really good idea to drop it right there in the Middle East.

00:53:07.640 That's given us unceasing wars. 0.98

00:53:10.040 But what's done is done.

00:53:11.640 They're there.

00:53:12.660 I think that they deserve to defend themselves.

00:53:15.440 I wish them well.

00:53:16.440 I hope that they also don't absolutely exterminate other peoples.

00:53:20.540 I wish for peace in the Middle East.

00:53:22.780 I'm an American, so I'd like to stop sending our tax dollars.

00:53:25.480 It's not our problem.

00:53:26.860 It's not our problem.

00:53:27.660 Leave it alone.

00:53:28.120 And whoever the modern state of Israel is, I'm not convinced that these are actual people with covenant or ethnic ties, for that matter, to Abraham, but they are a nation, right?

00:53:40.280 They're still a nation.

00:53:41.260 And so for me, my view is just in the great global post-millennial hope, all the nations are eventually going to be saved and flock to Mount Zion.

00:53:49.600 So I believe that Israel will be saved in the same way I believe Canada will and Brazil will and China will and everybody else.

00:53:54.740 So we both get to a future spiritual revival through different paths.

00:53:58.340 Yours is actually the more common view with Reformed history and Puritan history.

00:54:02.660 And my point in saying all this is you and I are able to still be friends and serve together in the same local church, and neither of us have swastika tattoos, and neither of us are unhinged.

00:54:14.680 but also neither of us find out about a man in our church sharing a Holocaust meme

00:54:20.260 and then give him a 14-hour longhouse treatment

00:54:24.380 and then excommunicate him and his wife and kids.

00:54:27.640 That's insane. 0.94

00:54:29.480 Absolutely insane.

00:54:31.460 So I said, you know, back to this, and we'll go to our first commercial break,

00:54:35.160 but I said to Tobias, I already had a two-hour virtual meeting with you

00:54:38.740 and all of your elders.

00:54:40.400 We sat quietly for the first hour, listened to your concerns,

00:54:43.740 and then I responded to them. Number one, no, we absolutely do not hate all Jews. Number two,

00:54:49.500 yes, we believe that Jews can be saved. And most, we believe actually will be saved, 0.77

00:54:56.480 not in a Romans 11 sense, speaking for myself, but through the end time promises of the great

00:55:02.720 post-millennial hope that eventually all the nations will flock to Mount Zion and be saved.

00:55:07.160 So we do believe that Jews can be converted. Three, no, not all Jews are a part of some

00:55:12.260 secret conspiracy or a global cabal. Four, yes, I do believe that Talmudic Judaism is not only

00:55:20.480 pernicious, but uniquely pernicious. I believe that it is worse than Islam. I believe it is 1.00

00:55:27.080 worse than Buddhism, worse than Hinduism. I would say worse than atheism, but I think it'd be 0.79

00:55:32.520 redundant because I think atheism and Talmudic Judaism in many ways are one and the same. 0.91

00:55:39.040 I think secularism largely is a Jewish problem. 0.81

00:55:43.200 I really do. 1.00

00:55:44.840 And so why do I think that Talmudic Judaism is more pernicious? 1.00

00:55:48.460 It's like, well, they're all false religions. 1.00

00:55:49.820 If you believe them, you're going to go to hell. 1.00

00:55:51.780 Yes and amen. 0.96

00:55:53.100 But there is a difference in an ideology and a religion

00:55:56.180 and the way that over centuries it shapes a culture and a people

00:56:00.160 when one of the religions esteems Christ, denies his deity.

00:56:04.600 And so it is heretical and absolutely a false religion.

00:56:08.180 but it esteems Christ as a prophet 0.90

00:56:09.980 and a relatively good man, Islam.

00:56:13.240 Whereas, and even Buddhism, for that matter. 0.98

00:56:15.600 Virtually every world religion except one.

00:56:19.000 Whereas Talmudic Judaism does not esteem Christ as a prophet, 0.99

00:56:23.760 but says that he should be boiling in human excrement. 0.99

00:56:27.540 And that he is boiling in hell, in human excrement. 0.99

00:56:31.780 Those two worldviews, 0.89

00:56:34.540 particularly in their view of the person and work of Christ,

00:56:38.180 are going to have, both have negative effects, but not to the same degree. One is going to deny

00:56:45.180 Christ deity in which there is no gospel and no hope and every man is dead in his sins. That's

00:56:50.140 going to have horrible, global negative effects. Islam, Buddhism. But another one says, not only 1.00

00:56:56.340 are you still dead in your sins, and not only is Jesus not God, but Jesus is one of the most

00:57:01.860 sinister human beings to ever walk the face of the planet. That one, I believe, is going to have

00:57:07.360 far worse effects okay so that was number four number five yes this ideology or religion speaking

00:57:13.760 of talmudic judaism can and sometimes does have an effect on even those who do not practice judaism

00:57:20.400 because that was another question that he asked he was like well so few people are actually are

00:57:24.500 orthodox jews and are actually practicing you know so many people in israel are completely secular

00:57:29.040 and i was like well brother that's kind of my point um that you're separating these things as

00:57:34.020 though there's no correlation between the two uh no no this is what talmudic judaism does

00:57:38.280 is what it does is it gets you uh where israel our greatest ally um where's where's the largest

00:57:45.740 gay pride parade in the entire world year after year israel tel aviv israel yeah and so um so 0.56

00:57:53.720 i said yeah they're not all practicing but this ideology slash religion can and sometimes does

00:57:59.620 have an effect on even those who do not practice Judaism,

00:58:02.900 the culture, and the nation as a whole. 0.64

00:58:06.120 Number six, yes, Hitler was a bad guy, 0.87

00:58:09.080 and he was not a Christian prince.

00:58:11.640 Number seven, yes, many Jews died in camps in World War II,

00:58:16.640 although I personally do not have a position on the exact number.

00:58:20.020 And if I ever get around between being a pastor

00:58:22.420 and president of Right Response Ministries

00:58:24.600 and a husband and a father,

00:58:26.160 if I ever have a spare 10,000 hours to speak credibly

00:58:29.500 on the topic then i'll give you a number until then um i'm not going to say well it was for sure

00:58:35.260 six million i'm not going to do that because they've lied about everything right when i say

00:58:39.020 they i don't mean jews i mean everybody all of our institutions every credible authority has 0.72

00:58:43.320 lied about everything so i'm not going to just say oh yes sir you say six million that's what

00:58:46.880 the mainline consensus is six million so i'm not going to say six million at the same time i'm also

00:58:51.240 not going to give another number um i'm just going to say i don't know right i don't know

00:58:55.680 And fortunately, in terms of knowledge of historical events, from what I can tell, maybe I've just been missing the gospel all these years as a pastor, no less.

00:59:04.900 But from what I can tell, the historical events that you need to know actually happen and have faith in in order to have standing in Christ's church were the historical events that happened 80 years ago and the exact number of Jews that were killed in the Holocaust.

00:59:16.940 No.

00:59:17.980 Maybe it's the historical events like six literal day creation.

00:59:21.400 Adam and Eve as actual individual people.

00:59:23.760 the life and death and burial and resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ. Those

00:59:29.060 are the things I know, a global flood. Those are the historical events that I have no question

00:59:33.280 about, that I have spent 10,000 hours studying the Bible, that I have full faith in, and that

00:59:38.620 I teach with credibility and with knowledge from the pulpit. I'm not going to teach World War II

00:59:43.600 history as someone who is not experienced enough on the matter. I also am not going to just hook,

00:59:50.060 Klein and Sinker believe everything that the guys who have been introducing all the weak gods and 0.97

00:59:56.160 global homo jihad for the last 80 years, I'm not going to believe their take on it either. So I'm

01:00:00.480 going to say, I don't know. And I think that's the difference at the end of the day. That's the

01:00:04.740 difference between me and some of these young men. They're saying, I know these guys, they've lied

01:00:08.580 about everything. They must be lying about this too. And so therefore the exact opposite is the

01:00:13.780 truth. That's the difference is I'm saying, yeah, I know they're lying also, but that doesn't make

01:00:18.400 the exact opposite the truth right i think that the nazis really were bad guys i yes hitler used

01:00:24.440 uh christian rhetoric he did uh but hitler was um hit hitler um it has documented some of his

01:00:32.940 infatuation with the occult um and apart from that because these things could be manufactured

01:00:38.140 and lies i understand but apart from that um from my the little bit of study that i have done

01:00:45.340 um the third reich in germany was much more likened to um like an old paganism like nordic

01:00:54.820 kind of um like even the blood and soil so i hold the blood and soil right but not like hitler did

01:00:59.940 so i hold the blood and soil insofar as blood means people and soil means place aka what even

01:01:06.520 jd vance said recently people won't defend a set of propositions or an economic zone but they'll

01:01:11.100 defend a home and a home is people in place you can't have a country without it so america is a

01:01:15.720 people in a particular a particular people in a particular place and it doesn't that particular

01:01:19.460 people is not 100 white people but it's uh it is heritage america and it's not people who have

01:01:25.420 nothing in common with us no desire to assimilate and have come in by the millions just in the last

01:01:30.320 three and a half years it's not those people it's not um so uh it is people in place but what hitler

01:01:36.220 meant by blood and soil is he actually meant that the arian race and and and the little bit that i

01:01:41.860 have read in his own words um that they were uh actually they were objectively superior because

01:01:48.060 there was something magical like this kind of this magical and that's why i say pagan kind of old

01:01:53.160 gods like poseidon you know having power over the sea there was something magical about the place

01:01:58.700 of germany that produced uh it was it was superior soil right a superior uh fertile fertile soil that

01:02:06.820 the fatherland the country was it was a magical place that produced a superior people genetically

01:02:12.000 superior people i don't believe that um i don't believe that and so my point is um i don't i don't

01:02:18.560 think the solution the post-war consensus has to die yep it has to die um i don't think the solution

01:02:25.560 is to lionize Hitler.

01:02:27.600 I don't think the solution

01:02:28.760 is to lionize Hitler. 0.99

01:02:29.980 But I also know the solution

01:02:31.220 is not to demonize

01:02:32.440 every young man

01:02:33.640 who's asking some questions

01:02:35.380 for good reason.

01:02:37.480 Especially pastors,

01:02:39.040 if that young man

01:02:39.980 comes to you privately,

01:02:41.620 don't go and tell

01:02:42.400 dozens of other pastors

01:02:44.180 who are then going

01:02:45.820 to write blogs about it,

01:02:47.320 do podcasts about it.

01:02:49.000 Shame on you.

01:02:50.160 Okay, let's go to our first commercial

01:02:51.320 and we'll come back.

01:02:53.020 All right, that's it, guys.

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01:05:15.160 yourself in the Word.

01:05:21.040 Alright, we're back. So

01:05:22.740 as pastorally,

01:05:25.060 as I'm dealing with this,

01:05:26.980 I'm trying to give some counsel to other pastors

01:05:28.980 and to church members.

01:05:31.500 Which is why we're doing this episode.

01:05:32.780 That's why we're doing this episode.

01:05:33.640 So what do you do

01:05:35.220 with this issue?

01:05:37.680 You've got

01:05:38.600 most of the voices are basically saying

01:05:42.760 you cut them off, you cast them into a dark, shadowy pit

01:05:47.040 and never speak to them again.

01:05:51.180 And I'm saying maybe that's not the most pastoral

01:05:54.880 Christ-honoring way to deal with it. So what I did

01:05:58.940 was, number one, you deal with it privately because all this was supposed to be private. It became very

01:06:02.940 public because this young man was foolish and made it public. No, because these 0.99

01:06:06.820 pastors were foolish and made it public because these pastors have been sounding the alarm about 0.99

01:06:11.160 the danger of nazism in the reformed church and they needed an example to substantiate it and 0.99

01:06:16.980 tobias sadly gave them um he put the chum out in the water and and the sharks couldn't help

01:06:22.380 themselves and picked it up it's like we got one meme one example and so we're going to run with

01:06:26.220 it um but if that hadn't happened if it hadn't been on the pastors then just this individual

01:06:31.220 church member uh nobody would have ever known about it and him and i were handling it privately

01:06:36.320 because it was a private affair.

01:06:38.520 He shared it privately to people.

01:06:41.300 So here's some of the questions I asked him.

01:06:42.960 Do you hate all Jewish people?

01:06:44.700 And he said, no. 0.94

01:06:46.560 I said, do you believe that Jews today,

01:06:49.840 those who call themselves Jews, 1.00

01:06:51.440 do you believe that there is,

01:06:54.960 in a corporate sense,

01:06:56.380 just like Paul said, 1.00

01:06:57.100 all Cretans are liars and lazy gluttons. 1.00

01:06:58.940 And this is true. 1.00

01:06:59.600 This comes from one of their own.

01:07:00.460 This testimony is true.

01:07:01.560 But then Paul, I mean, here's the thing.

01:07:03.520 You got to finish the other half of the equation.

01:07:05.500 he left timothy and creaked right because he because he expected to get fruit there yep so

01:07:11.720 he's saying these are this this is uh this is tough ground not all soil is equally fertile

01:07:16.600 yep but that doesn't mean that um that so so there there is some soil right jesus tells the

01:07:23.200 parables of the four soils some is a path and the birds of the air that's the enemy snatches it away

01:07:27.300 some it's the cares of this life like like thorns choke it out and uh and then some it's um it's

01:07:32.220 shallow topsoil, you know, and it's rock right underneath. And so, it springs up quickly because

01:07:35.780 the roots can't push down. So, then the stems push up exponentially quickly, but then the sun

01:07:40.760 comes out. That sun represents suffering. So, the thorns cares of this life. The birds, that's the

01:07:45.360 enemy, stealing it away with false doctrine, false teaching. And then the sun represents

01:07:49.720 difficulties and suffering for those who sprung up quickly, but then they can't stand the suffering

01:07:54.140 and they apostatize and leave the faith. But then there's good soil. Now, here's the deal. That's

01:07:58.500 the fourth soil, the good soil. But within that, and I don't think this is twisting the parable,

01:08:02.560 I think it's absolutely true, using what I just said about Paul and his reference to Cretans,

01:08:06.140 or what Paul said about his own people, according to the flesh, his own kinsmen, saying, this is why 0.85

01:08:11.000 I'm going to the Gentiles, because there's a partial hardening on these people. So my point

01:08:15.240 is, among the good soil, even among the good soil, there is a sliding scale. Some of the good soil

01:08:21.100 is richer than others, some is softer than others, some is more fertile than others.

01:08:25.240 and so um so uh i said you know do you believe that uh do you hate all jews no do you believe

01:08:31.840 that jews can be converted and he and he gave me that essentially that answer he said i i think

01:08:35.600 it's hard but yes i i think that certain people are more ripe there are different seasons within

01:08:40.600 this gospel age where certain peoples may be more ripe in the province of god at a particular time

01:08:45.340 for a gospel harvest that's undeniably true by the way of course it is yeah that's not anti-semitic

01:08:51.020 you're talking about a particular people who hate jesus right and there are lots of people who hate

01:08:56.500 jesus i'm aware of that but not all people hate jesus to the degree of of crafting a sacred text

01:09:03.040 that says jesus is burning an excrement right boiling an excrement i mean that's a that's a

01:09:07.060 special hatred of jesus so um so that's that was his answer to that it's a perfectly reasonable

01:09:11.520 answer um i said do you believe because he's post-millennial i said do you believe that

01:09:15.740 eventually and in line with the great post-millennial hope that these people whether

01:09:19.820 they have ethnic ties to abraham or not whether the covenant is uh fully ended or not whether

01:09:25.080 there's some adjacent halfway covenant of covenant of hagar or not or whether there's no covenant i'm

01:09:30.160 of the persuasion no covenant just just the new covenant you have to be in christ for that through

01:09:34.300 faith um do you still believe that they can be converted and eventually the soil will be softened

01:09:39.420 as a post-millennial because i was testing on that that one he wouldn't have to affirm to be

01:09:43.380 a member in our church right because post-millennialism is not necessary yeah it's not a

01:09:47.120 a top-tier issue. You can be all-millennial or pre-millennial and still be orthodox.

01:09:54.620 But I know he's post-millennial, so pastorally I was testing it. I wanted to see,

01:09:58.380 because that could maybe reveal bias in his heart, that maybe there is an animosity,

01:10:02.460 an anger, a bitterness towards Jewish people. And he said, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah,

01:10:07.600 they're a legitimate nation. Whether they have ethnic ties or not, they still are a nation,

01:10:11.660 just like Brazil is a nation and China is a nation. And I believe all the nations of the

01:10:15.340 earth will eventually flock to Mount Zion. So not in a Romans 11 sense, but in a post-millennial

01:10:19.540 sense, you know, like Isaiah speaks to. Yeah, I believe that the vast majority of Israel,

01:10:27.440 modern Israel, will eventually be saved leading up to a great golden age of a post-millennial 0.96

01:10:33.420 eschatology. I was like, great, sounds good. I said, do you believe that Jews have been 0.84

01:10:40.020 disproportional in very negative influential ways, not only in their own nation, but in the West and 0.85

01:10:48.140 in our nation, like pornography, the porn industry, or APAC, you know, an APAC handler for every single

01:10:55.100 Democrat. And he's like, yeah, absolutely. And I think that's been terrible. I said, great,

01:10:59.460 because it's factually true. You know, that was a trick question. You answered correctly. Yeah,

01:11:04.220 it's true. But then further, I set that up as a platform and said, and so therefore, do you

01:11:08.880 believe that every jew is uniquely pernicious and right no of course not um and so anyway so we went 0.98

01:11:15.080 through all of this and i was like if you found out that your neighbor was you know uh was a jew 0.96

01:11:21.140 um would you uh would you be neighborly towards them if they asked you to watch their dog and 0.99

01:11:25.660 they were going on vacation would you kill their dog you know would you would you become a haitian 0.55

01:11:29.140 all of a sudden try to eat it you know uh would you evangelize your neighbor and share the gospel

01:11:33.040 and he was like of course joel like what do we and you could tell on his face yeah and so then i

01:11:37.600 just i was like that's enough i don't want to despair this young man um he's fine and sadly

01:11:45.180 his former pastor has lost his mind yeah and so um a tragedy but um yeah was he asking serious

01:11:52.780 questions yes yeah was he coming to some conclusions that i deny yes because for a moment

01:11:57.880 there he was like man i think hitler probably was a christian right and i was like i i don't think

01:12:03.440 so and let me show you why um at the end of the day though here's the deal the his the history

01:12:08.360 of what happened 80 years ago is not necessary for the the faith once and for all delivered to

01:12:13.780 the saints that's right so we actually can disagree and i know that sounds crazy to people

01:12:17.420 i know even as the words yet most of you are probably like man joel sound really reasonable

01:12:21.600 up until this point but now it's like ah you know so you're saying that somebody could believe that

01:12:26.460 that hitler was a christian yeah in the same way that you could believe that bonhoeffer

01:12:29.660 uh was a christian bonhoeffer was a known heretic right a known heretic right um and yet there are

01:12:37.640 plenty of pastors i mean there's even a a group i forget who it is it might be ligonier i hate to

01:12:43.060 pick on them again if it's not but uh a well-known reform group that's doing a whole documentary

01:12:47.620 called bonhoeffer or i think it's netflix actually i think netflix is it's it's uh checks out we call

01:12:53.700 boomer fuel that's right that's right you know every night you know movie on reagan and then

01:12:57.560 a movie on bonhoeffer he's christian and he hates hitler beautiful you know that's i mean every

01:13:03.480 boomer in the world is going to watch that that's a good call on on whoever's putting this documentary

01:13:07.240 out because it will it'll get views um but bonhoeffer uh was terrible he was terrible uh

01:13:13.280 martin luther king jr there are people in our church oh yeah absolutely who still have have

01:13:17.660 not red-pilled on martin luther king jr they don't know all the history and they think that

01:13:21.920 he was a good christian man that he was a good christian pastor and that he's in heaven right

01:13:25.160 now um i'm not excommunicating that right uh but the reality is that martin luther king jr michael

01:13:30.500 was his actual name his actual name he changed it but michael king um was having an orgy two days

01:13:36.600 before he was killed and was a marxist yeah and was a heretic that denied the trinity so uh no

01:13:43.180 he was not a good guy and from what we know he's in hell right now and so um the point is you know 0.57

01:13:50.040 on that one you know we didn't see eye to eye on some of the history he's like well i i still think

01:13:54.880 he was better than you think you know and i think it was less malice towards the jews and it was

01:13:59.160 more like what daryl cooper said that a lot of people got upset about you know that like well

01:14:03.740 hitler you know he bit off more than he could chew they invaded poland uh and then you know

01:14:08.120 churchill you know who who i don't think was the chief villain i think that was too far but he was

01:14:12.720 certainly a warmonger certainly warmonger and he was certainly a known by his own words written

01:14:18.000 undocumented white supremacists churchill he loved him some white folk i'll say that um churchill did

01:14:24.040 not like black people um churchill didn't really like jews either um until in my opinion i think

01:14:30.640 they might have paid off his debt um and i think that's part of what got him back in the war i don't

01:14:34.440 know who paid off the debt but the dude was bankrupt right and all of a sudden he's he's doing

01:14:39.040 great financially that is curious and so anyways but he you know he cut off all the trade and so

01:14:44.180 you know germany's starving and they've invaded poland now and so they have all these camps and

01:14:48.320 prisoners of war and they can't feed their own people but that's what daryl cooper said that's

01:14:51.860 not necessarily my opinion right again see what i've already said i need to do 10 000 hours and

01:14:56.140 then i'll give you an opinion and i'm probably not going to do the 10 000 hours anytime soon

01:14:59.560 but this young man in my church he was leaning more towards that he was saying look in war times

01:15:04.300 it's war measures yep um you i mean even in america we had concentration camps and guess what

01:15:10.400 it wasn't just japanese people right there were a lot of people who turns out in the final analysis

01:15:14.500 were not japanese they were chinese or they were korean and they went to camp you know why

01:15:18.820 i'm just gonna be i'm not trying to be mean but because we thought they looked the same that's

01:15:23.940 right because white people thought that all asians look the same and and it's like well but why don't

01:15:28.800 you check their birth certificate when you're at war right people can forge documents that's the

01:15:33.220 whole thing you're trying to guard against is is secret agents and double agents and all these

01:15:38.220 kinds of things so you're in the middle of war and so you have uh camps now and and there were

01:15:42.840 atrocities that we did now not on the same level of what's done in germany but our people weren't

01:15:47.360 starving we we were separated we had the luxury of being separated by an ocean that's part of the

01:15:52.120 reason why economically we're so far ahead all of europe had to rebuild itself it was in ruins

01:15:56.240 and america just you know went into the stratosphere economically so there are some legitimate things

01:16:01.600 to consider here's the deal i still think that hitler hated jews right so i think it was all

01:16:06.040 those things plus i think he actually hated jews um that's my view um but this young man was like

01:16:12.940 i don't know i i'm not sure i'm not persuaded and so i said well okay pray about it read about it

01:16:20.240 think about it don't make this the end all be all issue that's a that's that's a very important

01:16:25.460 point if you could please don't uh please don't be the uh the hitler advocate at church with every

01:16:31.640 member and he has every new guest hi welcome to covenant bible church i really like hitler can i 0.97

01:16:37.300 talk to you about him like please don't do that you know please don't be an idiot uh and guess 0.94

01:16:41.960 what um he's a mature young man and he hasn't done that yeah and so he's you know there's a couple 0.98

01:16:49.020 other guys who are looking you know in our church are looking into world war ii history and they

01:16:52.720 want to know and they're fascinated and every now and then they come to me with their findings and

01:16:56.440 if their findings are absolutely crazy where it's like okay we're thinking about swastika tattoos

01:17:01.260 Then I talk them off the ledge, and I'm being facetious.

01:17:04.140 None of them have even gotten close to that far.

01:17:05.800 None of them have gotten that far.

01:17:07.060 You need to clarify that.

01:17:07.860 Our church is not that crazy.

01:17:09.160 We're not.

01:17:10.380 And so, you know, but they are having some serious, and if you're wondering, what do you mean serious conversations?

01:17:15.860 Watch the interview with Daryl Cooper on Tucker Carlson.

01:17:18.280 It's basically that.

01:17:19.700 And here's the deal.

01:17:22.120 That interview with Daryl Cooper was milquetoast.

01:17:25.120 It was not controversial.

01:17:26.880 That's Pat Buchanan, New York Times, bestseller, 15 years ago.

01:17:30.660 Absolutely.

01:17:30.840 that's what that was so back to the meme the thing i saw in the chat was well is it is it

01:17:35.460 appropriate to share this as though it's funny um that was one of the things that was raised by

01:17:40.440 this former pastor and saying um well you're still mocking um okay so you don't hate jews but

01:17:46.820 by sharing this meme and again but he only shared it with two people privately but still sharing it

01:17:51.900 at all this was the argument the former pastor sharing it privately even you are mocking um all

01:17:58.080 the loved ones and descendants, Jewish descendants of those who died in the Holocaust. You're mocking

01:18:03.080 the loss of their loved ones. And so I asked this member of my church, again, doing my pastoral

01:18:08.060 duty, I said, are you mocking them? And if so, could you tell your former pastor and say,

01:18:12.700 you're right, I'm sorry, I won't do that again. And he told me, he said, Joel, I'm not mocking

01:18:17.240 them. He said, Joel, you have to realize, I know I could be wrong. I know I could be wrong,

01:18:21.240 and I'm not publicly talking about this. I privately tweeted it. My pastor's the one who

01:18:25.460 made it public. I'm sorry, I privately texted it. Thank you. My pastor is the one who made it

01:18:30.320 public. I'm not publicly talking about this, so I am keeping it private because I understand

01:18:34.980 that these are controversial things. But Joel, as I'm now, right now, the position that I'm holding

01:18:40.420 is that I do believe that there were Jews who were rounded up. I don't think it was 6 million,

01:18:47.220 but I think that there were a lot of Jews that were rounded up. I don't think it was all malice,

01:18:51.760 but many of them still died by starvation

01:18:54.160 or by this or by that

01:18:55.240 and these other memes

01:18:56.620 and for any of them that were not Bolsheviks

01:18:59.200 and were not communists

01:19:00.060 and were not trying to destroy Germany

01:19:01.660 without any legitimate cause

01:19:05.020 in other words, any who suffered innocently

01:19:07.880 especially the women and children

01:19:09.420 is what he said

01:19:10.040 he said, I feel awful, awful

01:19:12.220 and that was not what I was conveying

01:19:15.020 in sharing the meme

01:19:15.520 he said, I wasn't trying to mock

01:19:17.220 the loved ones of the victims

01:19:20.340 He said, what I'm doing in sharing the meme was,

01:19:22.540 the purpose of the meme is I'm mocking the history,

01:19:25.900 not the people, but I'm mocking the history

01:19:27.940 because, Joel, right now, I could be wrong.

01:19:29.780 I recognize I could be wrong.

01:19:31.060 But as it stands right now,

01:19:32.340 I'm mocking a historical narrative

01:19:33.980 that I don't believe happened.

01:19:35.700 Or at least not anywhere near the way

01:19:38.520 that the mainline history says it happened.

01:19:40.740 So then I have to come, Pastor, to a conclusion.

01:19:44.440 Every man in my church who has a suspicion

01:19:47.120 that 9-11 was an inside job,

01:19:49.040 right excommunication right every man in my church who uh sides with the union in the north

01:19:56.280 um on the civil war right excommunicated right every man about like what are we doing now the

01:20:03.400 last time i checked we're saved by grace alone through faith alone in christ alone yep and not

01:20:08.420 holding to a particular historic view on world war ii alone yep that's what this comes down to

01:20:16.480 now aside from the history is there a way of having malice in your heart towards a certain

01:20:21.660 yeah but those are the pastoral questions we asked and the assurance here's the deal we don't uh we

01:20:27.240 don't exercise the keys of the kingdom excommunication is a big deal we don't exercise

01:20:31.900 the keys of the kingdom based off of a hunch yep so what all i can do pastorally is i can sit down

01:20:38.240 and i can ask questions but if i have a young man who says no i don't hate jews right yes i do

01:20:45.200 believe they can be converted yes if i my next door neighbor was one i'd share with him the gospel

01:20:49.200 and tell him to repent of his sins and turn in faith to the lord jesus christ um okay like there's

01:20:55.080 a few other questions i'm not going to do it again i've already addressed it but there were a few

01:20:58.660 other questions and we we had multiple meetings uh but at the end of the day it's like okay

01:21:02.600 you're good you're good you're a member in uh in good standing in our church and our church is

01:21:08.620 honored to have you and so then um since then i i wish it wasn't this way but i've had to

01:21:14.360 so now I'm standing in between him

01:21:16.400 and these other pastors

01:21:17.880 and I'm saying, you know what, you don't need

01:21:20.340 telling these pastors, no

01:21:22.200 you're done talking to him, he's a member of my church

01:21:24.900 you're done

01:21:25.920 no more abusing him

01:21:27.700 no more disparaging him, no more exasperating him

01:21:30.760 you can talk to me if you want

01:21:32.700 and I'm willing to talk if there's something else

01:21:34.980 that we missed

01:21:35.620 but I've already given you these answers

01:21:37.860 I already did this Zoom call

01:21:39.280 I think 0.98

01:21:42.080 by God's grace

01:21:43.700 you need to ask that god would uh would save you from uh from boomer brain right because you got

01:21:51.220 you got a real bad case okay what do you think well here's the thing is when you look at the

01:21:57.740 history of church discipline the sad thing about this particular situation is i'm convinced that

01:22:03.340 one of the reasons the western church is in the situation that it's in is because we have abandoned

01:22:07.840 proper church discipline right and when you look through history the the patristic era

01:22:13.100 There was a lot of church discipline over false beliefs.

01:22:16.100 They were still figuring out the doctrines of Christ, of salvation, of the doctrine of God and the hypostatic union.

01:22:22.180 And there were many people who were actually excommunicated over false doctrine, over the primary doctrines.

01:22:28.940 There were also people who were excommunicated for pinching the incense to Caesar, offering the worship to Caesar.

01:22:34.420 It's due only to the one true God.

01:22:36.580 But historically, as I was preparing for this episode, what I found was, this is not my idea,

01:22:41.660 but there's a direct correlation between the doctrine of confession to a priest that the

01:22:47.840 catholic church developed coming out of the patristic period and they removed actual

01:22:53.200 excommunication as a tool and a discipline and so now your discipline your church uh

01:23:00.760 keys of the kingdom as it were were the priest prescribing you so many penance penances yep

01:23:07.080 And so for a very long time, the medieval period, church discipline really kind of fell

01:23:11.940 out of fashion, quote unquote, in the church.

01:23:14.620 And it was the Reformation that brought it back.

01:23:17.980 Now, Calvin and Geneva, they were pretty, in some cases, heavy-handed with their church

01:23:22.880 discipline.

01:23:23.560 But this goes to the point that we've made many times on this show, Joel, it's your point.

01:23:27.360 I think it was necessary, right?

01:23:29.520 They were trying to fashion a Christian society.

01:23:32.380 Right.

01:23:32.600 and they were they had very clear and in my opinion biblical guidelines and the things that

01:23:38.420 they um disciplined people for in geneva were theological error rampant heresy and external

01:23:47.700 verifiable public sin like adultery like public brawling and fighting right like usury that sort

01:23:57.660 of thing you don't see at least from the research i did church discipline excommunication for a

01:24:06.440 private view or historical view or even even a comment that you may have made that was out of

01:24:11.900 uh in bad taste or off color or something like that right even even the american history the

01:24:18.280 baptists from the i forget what time period i wrote it down uh 1781 to 1860 it's estimated that

01:24:26.280 the baptists were excommunicating up to two percent of their church members a year right and

01:24:32.260 so my point is this church discipline actually i think is part of the solution we need the stomach 0.82

01:24:37.360 for revival we're going to have to kick some people out of churches when god grants repentance

01:24:41.520 right they are not welcome in the church of christ if they are going to name uh as good 0.90

01:24:48.660 homosexuality or transgenderism or any of these things right they they have to go they have they 0.85

01:24:54.540 could repent that was always offered right right it was always but if they don't repent but if they 0.98

01:24:59.160 do not repent and so the irony is the tool that we need and the tool that we have failed the soft

01:25:04.260 seeker sensitive churches the evangelical church for a long time um in general has abandoned that's

01:25:11.240 the tool we need except now in this situation sadly it's being applied to historical orthodoxy

01:25:17.280 and it just goes and there's a bit of irony here that i won't go into but it goes um to what doug

01:25:23.140 Wilson has said for a long time, every church has an orthodoxy. Every single church has a reason

01:25:28.980 that they will kick you out for it. And in this case, it just happens to be, don't question the

01:25:34.260 post-war sentiment. You're right. By golly. All right, let's go to our last commercial break for

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01:27:00.960 Lastly, a complimentary discovery call

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01:27:06.360 in this episode's show notes.

01:27:08.140 America is a country that was founded

01:27:09.480 for the purpose of allowing Christians

01:27:10.860 to do their duty before God

01:27:12.180 and not to have their consciences ruled

01:27:13.640 by the doctrines and commandments of men.

01:27:15.240 Reese Fund exists in order to see the Ten Commandments properly applied not

01:27:19.840 just as a plaque on the wall but to actually be used in business as though

01:27:23.520 they're commandments from God that we're supposed to obey. Our goal is to find

01:27:27.900 businesses and to buy them and to build them up. We want to find manufacturing

01:27:32.940 businesses and use them to make sure that we can maintain our capacity to do

01:27:36.560 things here. Reese Fund, Christian Capital, Boldly Deployed.

01:27:45.240 Fellas, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I'm going to shoot you straight. It is high time to get off

01:27:50.080 of gay email. Join paxmail.cc instead. We all know that these other companies support the exact 1.00

01:27:57.640 opposite of everything we believe. So keep your money with the brothers. We've got email. Check.

01:28:03.960 We've got docs, drive, calendar, appointments, project management. Check. So help us in the

01:28:10.120 fight to end abortion and to stop the expansion of the gay global communist agenda join us today 0.89

01:28:17.160 at paxmail.cc again that's paxmail.cc all right we're back uh shout out real quick to a couple 0.86

01:28:30.620 guys in the chat one carl anderson uh i just want to say i'm grateful for you like it shouldn't have

01:28:36.960 been this big of a deal but it was for me because uh we've gotten so much pushback over this uh but

01:28:42.380 this is carl anderson he wrote this boomer brain so i said that earlier in the show and he's like

01:28:47.320 boomer brain exclamation point again again again again he says oh my i am offended changing my

01:28:53.740 uh depends now how dare you uh bring it brother and then he said uh just kidding enjoy your work

01:29:00.880 from old reformer uh reformed boomer you know good on you and the fifth commandment is real

01:29:07.700 we want to honor our fathers um the the ability for you to say yeah boomer brain that's a good

01:29:14.200 one i know what he means and for you to recognize um everything he's talking about is the exact same

01:29:20.240 way that i think i agree with him right so obviously i don't have a boomer brain so yes

01:29:26.380 I am a boomer, but he's not talking about me. And if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.

01:29:32.100 And here you have Anderson in the chat saying, I know he's not talking about me. I'm not going

01:29:36.800 to get offended. And I'm able to hear what he's saying. And the young whippersnapper,

01:29:43.080 God bless him. I'm in your corner. So we love our boomers. We really, really do. 0.95

01:29:48.080 I think on the whole, that generation has caused a lot, a lot of pain and a lot of heartache.

01:29:54.620 But that doesn't mean each and every individual person.

01:29:57.520 It's never meant that.

01:29:59.040 Back to the whole point.

01:29:59.780 We have to be able to speak.

01:30:00.640 Sounds similar.

01:30:01.720 Yeah, we have to be able to speak in generalities.

01:30:03.800 We have to be able to speak in categories.

01:30:05.200 We need to be able to do this.

01:30:06.340 So one more thing.

01:30:08.380 Here at the end of the show, guys, help us out.

01:30:10.240 This is an important one.

01:30:11.940 It is.

01:30:13.100 Because everybody's wondering about how to address this situation

01:30:17.000 and to be able to address it pastorally, Christianly.

01:30:21.140 um and you guys know that it's like you've got uh the you know adolf hitler is the last christian

01:30:28.100 prince you know uh realm and then you've got the um we're going to disparage anybody and everybody

01:30:34.820 who even has a few questions about world war ii right realm and uh there's not a lot of guys

01:30:39.800 uh saying the things that we said today um who are able to navigate this and not just navigate

01:30:45.860 it from a historic standpoint. That wasn't our point, but pastorally. This is how to handle this

01:30:51.980 pastorally. And so this video needs to be seen by, I think, tens of thousands of people need to see

01:30:58.540 this one, especially pastors. So please help us. You guys, seriously, don't tune me out right now.

01:31:03.920 Please, listen. You can help me right now make sure that maybe your pastor actually sees this

01:31:10.460 simply by giving us a thumbs up. Right now, I'm looking at it. I'm not going to stop saying it

01:31:14.620 until I see you do it. Thumbs up right now in the chat. Everybody, let's get thumbs up. There

01:31:19.100 are 192 people currently watching. We've got 78 thumbs up. I want to see 100 more thumbs up right

01:31:25.240 now. If you can help me out, please give us a thumbs up. This is why. Because it triggers the

01:31:30.480 algorithm. It gets it out to more people. People need to see this conversation, not because it's

01:31:35.440 Joel. That's not the point. But I don't know if there were a bunch of other people having this

01:31:39.740 conversation then i would share them and i'd say hey thumbs up their video and i would share them

01:31:45.040 on x and i'd you know share them on youtube i don't know hardly anyone who has had as detailed

01:31:51.540 of the conversation we just had today right i don't know one one p i listen to a lot of podcasts

01:31:56.520 and i'm friends with a lot of guys a lot of the best guys the good guys and i don't think there's

01:32:02.140 one piece of content that has handled the situation the way we did today so please help us out more

01:32:07.780 thumbs up we just went from 72 to 94 you guys are doing it michael's right there in the chat

01:32:12.060 giving so many thumbs up it's unstoppable uh thumbs up in the chat but also like the video

01:32:17.360 not just in the chat like the video like the video like the video like the video thank you

01:32:21.400 guys seriously and for the low price of 29.99 well what's good well what you can do though

01:32:28.840 is i will say this i'll uh because this is coming out on friday anyway so it's only 48 hours away

01:32:34.100 now, which is crazy. But the Friday special, season four, we've kind of been in this off in

01:32:41.240 between for a while now. So first season was Moniface Option. It was me, AD, and AD Robles

01:32:46.580 and Andrew Isker. Then we had Haunted Cosmos with Brian and Ben. And then we did, that was season

01:32:51.520 two. Then season three was the guys from Cultish, Andrew and Jeremiah. And then season four, it

01:32:58.020 starts this Friday because it's Q4, and this is going to be the first Friday of October. And it's

01:33:03.020 a nine part it's like seven hours of content nine part series each episode being about 45 minutes

01:33:09.900 on israel yeah the whole thing's on israel and the guest is nick fuentes no i'm just kidding

01:33:17.640 the guest like some people would be like yeah and others would be like no uh no it's not nick

01:33:24.120 fuentes um i i honestly i i don't think i've ever listened to anything by nick fuentes so i think

01:33:29.300 I think I've heard some clips.

01:33:30.240 So I'm not going to sit here and say, oh, he's terrible.

01:33:32.780 I've never listened to anything by him, but from the little bit that I do know, I just

01:33:37.640 don't think he's a strong Christian.

01:33:38.960 And certainly not, I don't think he's, how should I say, robust in the theological department.

01:33:45.720 And we tend to want to have guys who can look at history and look at culture, but also through

01:33:50.280 a robust theological lens.

01:33:52.000 And so from the little bit that I know about him, I don't think he would fit the bill.

01:33:56.060 So the guest is not Nick Fuentes.

01:33:57.400 The guest is Andrew Isker.

01:34:00.440 He's working on a book right now.

01:34:02.640 It's going to be coming out very soon.

01:34:04.500 The final manuscript is being edited.

01:34:06.300 He's publishing it again through Gab with Andrew Torba, who is a brother in Christ that we love.

01:34:12.200 And just like he did with Boniface Option, that was published through Gab.

01:34:16.140 And so the book's going to be coming out soon, and we did a corresponding series with it.

01:34:20.380 And here's the deal.

01:34:21.200 The series, it's much to our opponent's chagrin.

01:34:25.800 It is not unhinged.

01:34:26.760 they will not be able to hang us on one single thing right they won't um because everything we

01:34:34.460 said is true and primarily what we did was exegesis it's nine parts covering uh ephesians

01:34:40.860 romans hebrews acts going text by text and showing the partial preterist view the view that that him

01:34:49.180 and i would hold of romans 11 and saying this is covenantally what's going on ethnically what's

01:34:55.020 going on, and most importantly, biblically, what's going on, and this is the way that we should view

01:35:00.380 Israel. And the reason why it's pertinent, you know, some things you just can't time. Sometimes

01:35:04.920 God's prophet is just beyond what you would even foresee or what you would even personally wish for.

01:35:11.720 But here we are, shots fired, literal shots fired from Lebanon to Israel, and it seems a little

01:35:19.980 suspicious whether or not the iron dome fully held up right some of those shots and we know that

01:35:25.280 there will be a retaliation right my prayer is that they won't just let level that it won't be 0.81

01:35:32.240 nuclear they won't level an entire country right because israel i wouldn't put it past them to do

01:35:37.820 that you already see all the neocons uh on x saying uh there is no response that's not merited

01:35:44.740 after this basically what they're saying is i mean dick cheney you know from the grave is like

01:35:49.840 yes 0.65

01:35:51.040 war

01:35:52.620 you know

01:35:53.520 and

01:35:53.840 and we don't want that

01:35:54.820 right

01:35:55.040 but the point is

01:35:56.180 there's a lot going on

01:35:57.220 and it's going on

01:35:57.940 right now

01:35:58.660 yep

01:35:58.960 and it just ramped up

01:36:00.300 and in the problems of God

01:36:01.600 God would have it

01:36:03.300 this series is dropping

01:36:04.560 on Friday

01:36:05.740 we had already planned

01:36:06.440 this conversation

01:36:07.040 and this series is dropping

01:36:08.880 right

01:36:09.100 on Friday

01:36:09.880 and why does it matter

01:36:10.740 because

01:36:11.840 bad ideas have consequences

01:36:13.860 yep

01:36:14.380 and guess what

01:36:15.320 bad theology

01:36:16.240 yeah

01:36:16.720 has consequences

01:36:17.600 and I absolutely

01:36:19.220 I absolutely believe that we have had 80 years of conflict, global conflict, billions, if not

01:36:28.560 trillions, if you add it all up, trillions of dollars, hundreds of thousands, arguably millions

01:36:34.880 of lives lost. And all of it largely due, not just to, well, that's just geopolitical. No,

01:36:42.700 largely due to bad theology. And yes, I'm talking about dispensationalism.

01:36:49.220 um yeah uh israel would not have been uh they never would have been reinstituted as a nation

01:36:56.100 state there they could have had land there were all offers in other places right but there in the

01:37:01.640 the seat of endless war there that never would have happened without the west help and the west

01:37:06.960 would have never done it if the west wasn't largely christian with bad biblical theology

01:37:11.700 and thinking we've got to usher in the third temple and we've got it you know um that was

01:37:17.160 bad theology that is uh why why how come my son might get drafted to world war three uh dispensationalism

01:37:24.820 my son just turned 18 just registered for the selective service this is reality in my family

01:37:31.780 last week you cannot hate dispensationalism enough you really can't you cannot hate it enough

01:37:38.060 we're talking about world war three we're talking about your taxes uh how come how come i don't have

01:37:42.900 enough money left over with my check you know like after all the taxes uh dispensationalism is part

01:37:48.180 of that not saying it's all of it but that's part of it um bad theology has consequences so that

01:37:53.040 starts uh 4 p.m central time um and that's going to be season four of the friday special uh nine

01:37:58.800 part series with andrew isker and uh you'll find out uh some some more information about that we've

01:38:04.540 got some announcements that will be dropping in that episode that are important um like i already

01:38:09.200 said with the conference uh jeff durbin is out we love apology love james white love jeff durbin

01:38:14.500 that's his prerogative to do so um they're always warmly invited to have uh if he last minute wanted

01:38:20.380 to come back in i would welcome him back in and we could have a have a uh panel discussion with

01:38:25.000 me and him and and steven wolf uh but we respect his decision jeff durbin is faithful honestly

01:38:30.180 jeff durbin i think he's at a point in his ministry and and this is this is only to honor

01:38:34.400 him i think he's at a point in his ministry where he just uh he wants to preach hour and a half

01:38:38.580 sermons and save babies yeah and that's about it and you know what kudos brother well done

01:38:43.640 um so uh but that opens up a couple slots and we've got i can't announce it yet because it's

01:38:49.620 not confirmed uh there's there's still some some question marks but uh we i'll just say this we

01:38:54.840 are uh we're shooting for the stars we might have some uh some surprising guests um coming

01:39:00.620 uh to the conference uh april 3rd 4th and 5th so go to right response conference.com to register

01:39:06.100 right response conference.com to register and uh last thing i want to say give us some more thumbs

01:39:11.860 up guys help the algorithm help this video get out come on come on come on um but then he means

01:39:17.540 like the video not like thumbs up thumbs up not in the chat but like the video like the video um

01:39:22.660 and then the last thing i wanted to say is uh guys truly from the bottom of our hearts we cannot

01:39:29.900 express this enough we were flabbergasted and completely blown away the last two weeks

01:39:37.060 we mentioned at the end of each episode that we have come up to um to to a cliff to a we're

01:39:45.360 between a rock and a hard place financially right now as a ministry and uh some of the needs that

01:39:50.120 we need to continue going and to take it exponentially to not just from like level

01:39:54.440 three to level four, but to level 10. Exponentially increase what we're trying to do. I can't even

01:40:02.100 tell you. I will eventually tell you. Some of the things I could probably never tell you,

01:40:06.960 but some of the ambitions and dreams that we have right now, just recently, you and me and Wes and

01:40:11.240 Nathan, the goals that we have for this little ministry are insane, things that nobody else is

01:40:18.360 doing. But we can't get there and we can't even quite continue what we're already doing

01:40:25.240 without financial help. Yeah, we have sponsors, but we do sponsors because we're post-millennial

01:40:30.660 and we believe in all of Christ for all of life and we want to partner with Christian businesses.

01:40:35.360 We're not doing it because we're raking in the dough. Our sponsors pay us, but at the end of the

01:40:39.960 day, all of our sponsors combined doesn't even cover Nathan's salary. And Nathan is not making

01:40:45.020 you know millions of dollars he has just a salary that's enough to uh be a livable wage for his

01:40:50.240 his family um and so uh the biggest thing is yeah we have sponsors and yeah we're doing a conference

01:40:55.980 but um uh the biggest thing is right response ministries at the end of the day we are still

01:41:02.540 a ministry and and um we never talk about donations until the last two weeks right we just

01:41:08.500 we i just i don't like it i don't want to talk about it and so we never talk about it but i you

01:41:13.100 I've had some good counsel from friends and saying,

01:41:15.820 Joel, we're in ministry, you've got to mention donations.

01:41:19.220 Ligonier, my goodness.

01:41:20.880 I one time gave a one-time $10 gift to Ligonier to get a book.

01:41:26.260 Right, right, yeah.

01:41:27.320 And that was like seven years ago.

01:41:30.260 And I still get two or three emails every single day from Ligonier,

01:41:35.080 and in most of those emails, them asking for financial support.

01:41:39.100 and it's uh yeah it can be insufferable at times i think there's a way to overdo it

01:41:44.900 but it's not inherently wrong it is not inherently wrong for a ministry

01:41:48.380 that is biblically based yeah but you're talking about politics uh-huh from the bible right uh

01:41:53.960 you're talking about uh the culture war uh-huh which is the outflow of a spiritual war we're

01:41:58.640 addressing it from the bible this is a ministry and ministries um i feel like the apostle paul

01:42:05.200 you know is it like is it is it wrong for me to reap some kind of material harvest as i'm so if

01:42:11.220 you're sitting here all you guys i get your emails all the time i don't have a solid churches i wish

01:42:15.600 i had a pastor like you and i'm like okay well i'm doing this content in addition to being a

01:42:19.620 husband and a father and pastoring a local church and i'm doing it for you because i recognize there

01:42:23.360 are displaced christians all over our country and all over the world and that uh pastors have

01:42:28.500 utterly failed um i get that you're right you're right and so i'm trying to pick up some of the

01:42:34.760 slack during this interim period as you're trying to find a godly church or someone plant in your

01:42:40.180 area a godly church or make enough money to where you can move out of your area to a godly church

01:42:44.640 but in the meantime is it too much as the apostle paul would have said to ask if we're sharing with

01:42:51.020 you this spiritual harvest to ask for some material gain so we did that the last two weeks we asked

01:42:56.760 for donations uh you can go to right response donate.com is it no right response ministries.com

01:43:05.540 forward slash donate right response ministries.com forward slash donate so we we did a big ask uh the

01:43:12.780 last two weeks and and before that it probably been a year since we've talked about a donation

01:43:17.520 and um you guys gave yeah tremendously um we still have need so i don't want to say and so

01:43:25.700 now never give again you know like we still have needs yeah it didn't meet all the needs because we

01:43:30.160 have some some mondo needs because we have some mondo vision uh but you guys gave a lot and it

01:43:37.460 blew us away and so uh please give but more importantly than that i just wanted to say

01:43:43.360 thank you yep thank you thank you thank you you you blew me away i from the bottom of my heart i

01:43:49.780 am so grateful thank you guys all right any final thoughts michael this is just for pastors

01:43:55.460 If you're a pastor and you've made it this far, the reason I attend the church that I attend now is because I received more pastoral counsel and an email from Joel than I had received from a church that wouldn't sign a vaccine exemption card for me and my wife.

01:44:15.060 And so my point is this.

01:44:16.960 You do not have to agree with the young men in your church.

01:44:20.720 you don't have to even be comfortable with some of the things they're asking and questioning

01:44:27.120 right but take number one take them seriously treat them like men right and number two listen 0.97

01:44:32.540 to them okay they're probably not idiots right right and number three it's your job to to pastor 1.00

01:44:38.520 them not to just denigrate them and put them down and call them idiots or call them silly or call 1.00

01:44:44.620 them hateful right pastor your people pastor your young men this this time that we're living in in 1.00

01:44:52.180 history right we hope we're on the cusp of god doing a great work and if he's going to it's

01:44:59.140 going to be because young men who did not inherit the weakness that i'm for i'm in my 40s right i

01:45:05.900 feel like i'm behind the eight ball but my son is not right he's learning courage from a young age

01:45:10.900 that i never learned right not to say that you know my parents taught me the bible growing up

01:45:14.720 but there's different things that our young men are learning now and for a slightly older guy like

01:45:20.620 myself there's there's honestly a bit of man i wish i had had that at that i wish i was willing

01:45:26.640 to question that at 18 and i'm still scared to question it at 43 right there's resist that yeah

01:45:34.260 pastor your young men encourage them to pursue truth in all things to pursue the lord and to

01:45:40.420 be vigorous in defending their faith their family and their nation amen amen yeah we gained a lot

01:45:46.720 of michael you were one of them but um there was a lot of people that we gained in our church

01:45:51.100 simply for this one reason and it's pathetic it's sad but um they asked their pastor could

01:45:58.480 you please sign an exemption i don't want to put a foreign substance into my body but i have to also

01:46:04.240 put food on the table for my wife and kids i've written the letter you don't even have to write

01:46:08.440 it i've written the letter feel free to edit it according to your conscience but would you please

01:46:12.020 sign this for my employer so that i don't have to get a foreign substance in my veins or lose my job

01:46:18.180 yeah and their pastor said no yeah and i i it went against my conscience to do that for people

01:46:25.460 outside that i wasn't their pastor to do it right but i looked at the church at large and i realized

01:46:29.720 this is just an epidemic failure yep of pastors and so i saw a bunch of sheep without a shepherd

01:46:37.700 I saw a crown in the gutter that nobody wanted,

01:46:40.280 and I was willing to pick it up.

01:46:42.100 And so I wrote it.

01:46:43.400 I put it publicly on our church's website, the letter.

01:46:46.480 And I told everyone, please email me and get my permission,

01:46:49.340 and I will digitally sign it for you.

01:46:52.960 Since during the time, what's the employer going to say?

01:46:55.880 Well, you're not really a part of his church.

01:46:57.720 You don't even live in the same state.

01:46:59.700 Well, everybody else is doing church through Zoom anyways.

01:47:03.380 We weren't, but everybody else is,

01:47:05.480 and that counts as being a part of it.

01:47:06.980 So I took advantage of that, you know, and being, you know, being shrewd and saying,

01:47:12.040 I basically essentially said by proxy, and no, that goes against my theology.

01:47:16.060 I would never do that in an ordinary case, take on remote members.

01:47:21.720 But I took on remote members, they weren't true members, but in an adjacent sense,

01:47:28.160 temporarily for that time, simply so that I could function in their employer's eyes,

01:47:33.020 or the state's eyes as their pastor

01:47:35.460 so that they could continue feeding their family.

01:47:37.960 And you know what?

01:47:38.780 Turns out that when 90% of the pastors in America

01:47:43.960 are saying you either got to have a heart attack

01:47:46.620 five years from now or either starve your family

01:47:50.880 and sorry, bub, we won't help you.

01:47:53.600 And then you're one of the few pastors who will.

01:47:56.280 Yeah, it turns out that people will leave their church

01:47:58.300 and come to yours.

01:47:59.400 Go figure.

01:48:01.440 That's not my fault. 1.00

01:48:02.380 that's not poaching uh that's you a libtard pastor being an idiot and worse than an idiot 1.00

01:48:10.240 being sinister towards these men who are trying to feed their families and uh and we're afraid 1.00

01:48:17.180 of putting something that had no long-term testing oh it had millions of yeah millions

01:48:22.580 who've all had it for a few weeks no long-term testing and pastors utterly failed so and that's

01:48:28.520 And that's the lesson that, you know, we think, did we learn the lesson of COVID?

01:48:33.340 Well, some of us think it's, you know, don't lock down.

01:48:36.720 No, the lesson for the church, the lesson in the church is courage, defend your men, right?

01:48:43.040 If there is something that has to happen, you handle it privately.

01:48:46.320 You handle it privately.

01:48:47.100 Right.

01:48:47.580 Some guys learned, they learned the lesson in the case study, but they missed the overarching lesson in the principle.

01:48:53.880 So the lesson is, well, you know, lex rex, you know, law above the king and the state, you know, sphere of sovereignty and the state can't tell the church to lock down.

01:49:02.400 I mean, that's true.

01:49:02.960 That is true.

01:49:03.640 I'm with you.

01:49:04.820 But no, there were many lessons.

01:49:07.060 And one of the overarching lessons in principle was pastors stand by the men.

01:49:15.260 Do not sell out.

01:49:17.620 Like pastors, don't be shepherds for sale.

01:49:20.200 yeah don't sell out uh the the men in your church to the state or to their employer or to anybody

01:49:28.940 and you could do that with covet and mrna vaccines uh you can do that with blm yep and uh selling out

01:49:35.700 men in your church because they weren't woke enough and politically correct enough and you

01:49:40.540 can also do it with nazis you can sell out the men in your church um some who are genuinely just

01:49:47.220 asking questions and others who actually have gone further than that right and really are um

01:49:52.780 on the precipice of becoming hitler apologists right and yet even with them um

01:50:00.640 there's a crown in the gutter guys you get mad at me you get mad at me because uh the people in

01:50:08.060 your church are watching my podcast right you get mad at me because uh our platform keeps growing

01:50:13.740 and you say, well, he's just platform building.

01:50:15.560 No, you're platform building.

01:50:17.080 You're building my platform.

01:50:19.280 You're building, Pastor, my platform.

01:50:21.180 And you know how you're doing it?

01:50:22.360 You keep taking your pastoral crown

01:50:24.340 that was given you divinely by God

01:50:26.560 and you throw it down in the gutter.

01:50:28.400 And I keep picking it up and saying,

01:50:29.800 well, then I guess I'll wear it.

01:50:31.240 And I guess I'll wear it.

01:50:32.520 I feel like, you know, I know he's the bad guy,

01:50:34.400 but I feel like Thanos, you know,

01:50:35.640 just collecting, you know, gemstones,

01:50:37.460 you know, one by one.

01:50:38.180 But except I'm not taking them and killing people.

01:50:40.300 They're just handing them over.

01:50:41.920 They're like Esau, despising their birthright.

01:50:44.100 They're just saying, oh, yeah, we've got young men in our church, 0.69

01:50:47.060 but they make me feel icky, and I don't like them.

01:50:49.640 Like, okay, I'll speak to them.

01:50:52.020 I'll talk to them.

01:50:53.260 The harvest is plentiful.

01:50:55.480 The workers are few.

01:50:57.860 And all day long, people are fine.

01:51:00.400 Here's the thing.

01:51:01.100 They're fine working in a harvest so long as that harvest is on the left. 0.98

01:51:05.320 So long as that harvest is, you know, if that harvest is a young man, 0.99

01:51:10.940 who's thinking about sodomy, 0.99

01:51:14.660 yeah, I'll work with it.

01:51:16.220 I'll be compassionate.

01:51:18.060 But if it's a young man who's like, 0.95

01:51:20.140 sodomy is an abomination in the sight of God, 0.97

01:51:22.420 why would I ever think about sodomy? 0.84

01:51:24.440 I'm just thinking about the guys

01:51:26.780 who burned all the books 0.88

01:51:28.040 that were written by sodomites

01:51:30.000 in the 1930s,

01:51:32.460 and maybe we made a mistake here,

01:51:34.960 historically,

01:51:35.700 because the sodomites

01:51:36.740 seem to be taken over again.

01:51:37.920 One, I don't even think those two guys belong in the same category.

01:51:43.640 The guy on the left is far, far, far worse.

01:51:47.700 The guy on the right, he may come to some wrong historical conclusions

01:51:50.940 and he may have some spiritual deficiencies in terms of maturity

01:51:54.120 that need to be ironed out.

01:51:57.280 But if you just say that guy's icky and you throw him away,

01:52:00.840 well then guess what?

01:52:03.780 My podcast is going to get bigger.

01:52:05.380 yeah and uh and you're gonna keep getting mad but you did it not me all right thank you guys

01:52:11.640 for tuning in god bless

The NXR Podcast - October 02, 2024

THE LIVESTREAM - When A Member In Our Church Shared A Holocaust Meme

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