The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Why Pastors Suck at Politics

00:00:00.000 As political questions intrude on the daily life of more and more Christians,

00:00:07.480 congregants turn to their pastors for help and for guidance.

00:00:11.700 Sadly, many pastors either respond to these questions in ways that are not relevant to church life,

00:00:18.180 or they give their congregations answers that are progressive and unbiblical.

00:00:24.240 Why are pastors so bad at answering political questions, and what can be done about it?

00:00:30.000 Tune in now.

00:00:40.280 All right, gentlemen, welcome back.

00:00:42.380 Welcome.

00:00:42.580 Getting started a little early today, so excited to be here and jump right into it.

00:00:46.640 Welcome to those of you who are joining us live and excited to have you all along for

00:00:50.540 the discussion as well.

00:00:51.820 Today we are indeed talking about the question of pastors, political messaging, how pastors

00:00:59.220 should help their congregants think through political questions and really at the bottom of

00:01:05.940 at the at the end of the day tipping our hand here saying we think pastors are pretty bad at this

00:01:11.400 so don't want to bury the lead we we think there's a lot of room to grow here in this area right so a

00:01:17.760 lot of what we're going to hear in the typical mainstream churches evangelical churches is you

00:01:23.920 A pastor should stay out of politics, right?

00:01:25.860 The pulpit is no place for politics.

00:01:28.680 It's even technically illegal for a 501c3, which most churches are, to officially endorse a candidate.

00:01:34.920 That doesn't mean the pastor can't have his personal recommendation.

00:01:37.800 But if the church comes and says this is the official recommendation of X church on X street, that technically violates tax law.

00:01:46.100 So there's even in our legal— 0.99

00:01:47.920 Which black churches do all the time. 1.00

00:01:49.920 I am aware of this, yep. 1.00

00:01:52.460 Rules for thee, not for—

00:01:53.740 Yeah, for me, 100%.

00:01:55.460 Al Sharpton, what's his name, Creflo, trillionaire, dollar.

00:01:59.460 Yep, yep, yep.

00:02:00.680 My point is it's kind of pre-baked into the pie in the society that we live in that pastors and politics ought not mix.

00:02:10.580 Right.

00:02:10.980 Right, that's the assumption going into it.

00:02:12.920 And so we're going to challenge that assumption.

00:02:15.380 And, you know, oftentimes when an assumption gets challenged, the immediate response is, oh, no, my assumptions have been challenged.

00:02:22.320 understand some of you you might have that reaction just take a deep breath consider the

00:02:27.920 arguments and and stay with us real quick let's try something here at the beginning i i never say

00:02:34.080 this because we try not to be completely cringe and insufferable but um man every time i watch

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00:02:44.960 give us a thumbs up smash this button let's get the algorithm to push it and apparently i've been

00:02:51.380 reliably informed that it does work so only if they actually smash though yeah you have to smash

00:02:55.860 it actually you know gently push the like button but let's give it a shot if you are watching right

00:02:59.960 now uh we're curious we want to see if maybe the algorithm will pick it up and get it out to more

00:03:05.300 people so if you could just give us a thumbs up and like this video and um and if you're new here

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00:03:15.340 If the people we have watching now like the video, if it gets out.

00:03:18.440 All right.

00:03:19.220 Great.

00:03:20.720 Okay, so I want to start here with a couple of statistics that I found interesting as I was researching for the article this week,

00:03:28.340 which, friendly reminder, the article is available to Patreon members.

00:03:33.360 A couple things about pastors and politics.

00:03:36.260 So this was from a 2022 Barna survey of clergy members, pastors in America.

00:03:43.100 42% of mainline pastors, 38% of non-mainline pastors asserted that the church should be

00:03:50.200 a place of peace and not division.

00:03:52.500 Now, this is specifically in the context of political questions.

00:03:55.620 This is not, you know, the kind of peace that might come from, you know, choosing the drapes

00:04:00.380 at the back of the auditorium or something like that.

00:04:02.400 This is specifically political discussion type peace.

00:04:06.720 So 42% of the mainline pastors said the church should be a place of peace, not of division.

00:04:12.860 That, to me, is immediately a false dichotomy, right?

00:04:17.660 Agreed.

00:04:18.680 The idea that if you are discussing political issues, and that leads to disagreement, that you're a divided church.

00:04:29.080 Now, you might be.

00:04:30.380 You might be, because churches have not been clear on a lot of these issues.

00:04:33.220 And so you might actually have a truly divided congregation.

00:04:35.960 Well, initially you will. I remember when I was pastoring in California and I came in to more conservative convictions, and not only just more conservative positions personally, but also I came into a tactical, methodological position that the pulpit should be a little bit more, not only, but a little bit more polemical, not just political, but polemical.

00:04:58.040 so so i wasn't just coming to more conservative positions as an individual person but as a pastor

00:05:03.440 i thought that no there should be more political application publicly from the pulpit well i can

00:05:10.400 tell you what initially happens when you're making that change initially you lose half your church

00:05:15.200 that's what happens initially now here in texas we haven't you know like we haven't had like a

00:05:20.640 moment where you know one sunday i'm there and there's 200 people and the next sunday there's

00:05:24.800 100 so that you know it could happen but it hasn't happened yet it's been three and a half years

00:05:29.000 but that's because from the get-go um everybody who was coming were they were coming

00:05:34.840 well they just knew what they were getting into they were coming because they had seen sermons

00:05:39.800 online or podcasts and you know their very first sunday there they're like okay yeah he talks about

00:05:44.060 this stuff and that's probably why they're there and in defense you know of the half of the church

00:05:49.020 that i lost when i was in california in their defense because i'm not picking on them i'm just

00:05:53.040 saying that's what happened. In their defense, the reason why, if you're making this change

00:05:57.340 initially, that there can be massive fallout is because you are essentially taking the church

00:06:04.020 in a different direction. It's your fault. It's your fault. Now, good on you, by the grace of

00:06:11.520 God, choosing to repent and make that change, because I do think that it's a noteworthy and

00:06:15.820 positive needed change. But repentance has a cost. Now, sin in the long term has a bigger cost,

00:06:21.100 But repentance has an initial cost, and the reason why you're losing half of your church is because you changed the church.

00:06:28.040 They signed up for a particular kind of church that you no longer are providing for them, right?

00:06:34.520 One of the reasons they probably liked your church is because it wasn't political, and now it is.

00:06:40.160 And one last thing I wanted to say is I love that we're using a chart because the visuals are helpful.

00:06:45.500 It's good to have statistics.

00:06:46.840 It's good to have sources cited.

00:06:48.720 but also i forevermore will have a much greater appreciation for charts that save lives

00:06:55.500 charts i mean i don't know if you guys that was my big takeaway from saturday my big takeaway

00:07:01.740 from saturday was charts save lives and so uh i'm here for the chart still out we don't need

00:07:08.180 any 50 slide powerpoints but a single chart a single chart anything to get you to turn your

00:07:13.520 head just a little bit look at the chart and uh man the course of nations yeah can be changed

00:07:18.620 Well, let me read a couple of stats, and then we are going to put a chart up.

00:07:21.180 Okay.

00:07:21.380 Okay.

00:07:21.620 So I hadn't given these to Nate to put up.

00:07:24.220 So a couple other interesting things.

00:07:26.520 Roughly equal shares of mainline and non-mainline Protestants.

00:07:29.420 So about 16% to 20% congregants, or sorry, pastors, reported that debates about racial justice issues made it harder for me to lead my church.

00:07:41.540 Well, no offense, cry me a river.

00:07:45.100 Lead your church.

00:07:46.540 Right.

00:07:46.680 Right?

00:07:46.920 Lead your church.

00:07:47.580 And then the last one here, exactly one-fourth.

00:07:51.180 So one out of four of the mainline pastors insisted—this is a surprising statistic—a

00:07:57.080 quarter of mainline pastors insisted that they were, quote, not interested in leading

00:08:01.840 people when it comes to political issues.

00:08:06.260 So a quarter of pastors say, I have no interest in leading my congregation when it comes to

00:08:11.620 political issues.

00:08:12.740 Yeah.

00:08:13.160 Okay?

00:08:13.540 Yeah.

00:08:13.740 And the three quarters, I would be willing to bet, if I was a betting man, that over half of the three quarters are willing to lead them in a political direction, but in a progressive political direction.

00:08:26.700 So let's put up this chart here, Nate.

00:08:28.300 And this first one's a little bit blurry.

00:08:31.000 Apologies on that. 0.99

00:08:32.400 This is white evangelical churchgoers.

00:08:36.880 Okay, so Joel mentioned, I think earlier, politics are very common in black churches.

00:08:43.740 it's very even during the trump trials there were clips going around of black churches who

00:08:50.060 were coming out in support of even the individual prosecutors and the da's and calling them heroes

00:08:55.420 for prosecuting trump but this one is is specifically white evangelical churchgoers

00:09:00.520 and my point is even among white churches which kind of in the popular mythology are more

00:09:07.220 conservative churches, the politics they're hearing are still, in large part, very politically

00:09:15.240 left. So, for instance, the teaching on homosexuality is that of all recent attendees

00:09:23.420 to church, 20% of churchgoers are hearing their pastor preach against homosexuality,

00:09:31.860 whereas 12 were being told to affirm or accept gays and lesbians.

00:09:38.180 That's still more than we're being told no,

00:09:42.780 but a lot of them were still being told by their pastor,

00:09:46.520 we need to accept gays and lesbians.

00:09:48.440 You can read across the chart there.

00:09:53.200 The reason I highlighted this one is this is the only category

00:09:57.680 where the quote-unquote, not quote-unquote, the biblical standard is being more affirmed

00:10:03.900 than less affirmed across all denominations, okay?

00:10:06.980 But when it comes to other things like immigration, the question is, should we welcome and support

00:10:14.440 immigrants, or do we need stricter immigration enforcement?

00:10:17.720 And here, it was flipped.

00:10:24.940 Every single church on this list was—so it doesn't matter, Protestant, white, evangelical, white, mainline, black, Protestant, Catholic,

00:10:33.520 all of them are hearing in the pulpit more from their pastor that we need to welcome and support immigrants

00:10:40.840 rather than we need stricter immigration enforcement.

00:10:43.880 catholics at 32 percent indeed the highest indeed so of all those denominations we listed yep the

00:10:50.460 ones hearing most frequently in the last few months about the need to welcome and support

00:10:54.200 immigrants by a way wide margin looks like 13 percent more were catholics of which 32 percent

00:11:00.080 of them heard in the last few months yeah you need to welcome and accept more immigrants and

00:11:03.580 on homosexuality correct me if i'm reading this wrong but the only oh i'm sorry you're only

00:11:08.460 groups on homosexuality it was um below 10 yeah it was protestants white evangelical white mainline

00:11:15.820 and uh and black you're right the catholic was flipped yeah all of them were saying uh it was

00:11:21.820 about like a three to one ratio or even a four to one ratio in the case of white evangelical it's a

00:11:27.340 six to one ratio right 36 to six like a bulwark type monument like a bulwark ratio right there 0.60

00:11:33.180 but a six to one ratio of being against homosexuality and then you know that being the

00:11:39.040 six and then one being you know four except when you get to so it's all like a three to one ratio

00:11:44.040 being against versus being four but when you get to you know three to three to one or four to one

00:11:49.400 or even six to one but catholic it's uh almost a one to two yeah it's uh actually it's the same

00:11:55.460 ratio for the white um mainline too yeah you're right yep same ratio these are going to be the

00:12:01.420 rainbow flying flags that oh you're right you're right so there's only yeah so white main line 0.97

00:12:07.180 yep is um be gay and catholic is be gay and then with immigration same thing with immigration 0.99

00:12:16.040 oh but no for immigration every single one of these they're all terrible yeah they're all 1.00

00:12:21.100 terrible yeah all right the catholic church uniquely is the point yeah the worst probably 1.00

00:12:25.940 the worst if you all take it in summary is yep it's terrible yep yeah well you got steven colbert

00:12:31.140 well he's a faithful catholic well biden's a faithful catholic right they're all good standing

00:12:35.680 uh one more chart there nate next one please

00:12:38.640 okay so this is um whether or not uh churchgoers this is already churchgoers who say that the u.s

00:12:52.700 should be a christian nation um so this is a subset of christians a very small subset i would

00:12:58.540 say in our time but people who took this survey who identified right at the beginning yes america

00:13:04.040 should be a christian nation right that's a good start that's a good start even among those people

00:13:09.140 though um there is a very there's just a view that this should be ethereal or kind of philosophical

00:13:17.600 when you get to the teeth of it, very reluctant. So the first question there was, do you think the

00:13:23.040 founders of America originally intended for the U.S. to be a Christian nation? A lot of them said

00:13:27.420 yes, okay? A lot of them said yes. But when we get to the bottom, should churches and other houses

00:13:34.160 of worship keep out of political matters or express views on day-to-day social political

00:13:39.700 questions? Again, like two-thirds of them said churches and houses of worship should stay out

00:13:46.720 this. So to me, what is interesting about this is that Christians who say that America ought to be

00:13:52.860 a Christian nation, that subset predominantly will then turn around and say, yeah, but not in the

00:13:58.740 church. The church has nothing to do with this idea of America being a Christian nation. So the

00:14:05.400 reason I brought these charts up was I found it really interesting that even though a lot of

00:14:12.180 pastors express frustration that the churches that they pastor are becoming more politicized

00:14:19.940 and that they're having to field more of these political questions than maybe they had to in

00:14:23.920 the past. The reality is, I mean, the blurry chart that we had first, this was within the

00:14:30.060 last few months whether these congregants had heard these political topics, and a lot of them

00:14:34.460 had. So the reality is political topics are coming through the pulpits of a lot of churches in

00:14:40.340 america right but even the christians that we would say on our side that say yes america should

00:14:46.500 be a christian nation are wanting to pull the reins back and say no no the pastor the pulpit

00:14:51.860 should not be talking about the issues that would determine whether or not america is a christian

00:14:58.260 nation and i've got a big i feel like there's a big reason for this and i experienced this that

00:15:03.640 we haven't really attended a ton of churches in our adult life by god's grace we've stuck at a

00:15:08.080 couple uh for for a long amount of time but two of them we were in and i remember the pastor and

00:15:12.500 one of them this was right during the 2018 midterm so this was trump's already in office

00:15:17.080 things had gotten really polarized but it was it was midterm so the senate and the house i remember

00:15:22.140 the pastor getting up and saying like i hope we have congregants that some of them vote straight

00:15:27.100 republican and some vote straight democrat and i remember just like thinking a layer back and i

00:15:32.720 know why he said that because he was a church planter that wanted a big church and the threat

00:15:37.320 to a big church would be people dividing and forming a wedge, and his church getting known as

00:15:42.340 the liberal church in town, the conservative church in town, the Republican church in town.

00:15:46.580 So these pastors are like, I'm not liking all this politics. I'm not liking the division.

00:15:50.540 The reason many of them are not liking that, some of them are just weak men that need to grow a

00:15:55.400 spine and stand up and preach the word of God. But for many of them too, they want to be the

00:15:59.940 next Instagram influencer. They want to be the next Josh Howerton. They want to be the next

00:16:03.940 megachurch pastor, and division, splitting their congregation in half, is a massive roadblock to

00:16:09.700 that happening. So they attempt to do this glue work of trying to not talk about it, get people

00:16:14.320 to agree, and empty, just utter this rhetoric, empty rhetoric about unity and avoiding division

00:16:21.400 to try to keep their church together for their paycheck, not for the purpose of being faithful,

00:16:26.320 preaching the word in season and out of season, doing all of that. It's really a paycheck at the

00:16:31.500 end of the day for a lot of them that's why they they don't like these political topics and they

00:16:35.580 feel so icky to them because they can just see like you mentioned 40 of congregants walking out

00:16:40.700 the door they go too far one way or the other right all right so i have a question here this is

00:16:46.300 a theory and something that i have said but i want to interrogate it and get you guys's take on this

00:16:52.260 one of the things that i have thought and said several times over the last couple years is that

00:16:57.040 one of the reasons why this is a particularly important issue in our time is that the political

00:17:02.680 issues of 50 or 60 years ago were not of the same spiritual gravitas as they are now and what i've

00:17:11.840 said is now political issues are should we kill people should we cut off anatomy of people and 0.60

00:17:17.540 should we just open up our country to be totally pillaged by invaders right now i think it's fair

00:17:23.900 to ask the question, though, because one of the things that we say pretty often is that every

00:17:28.920 legislative decision is an imposed morality, right? Every time the government makes a law,

00:17:35.240 it is an imposition of a morality of some sort. Is it fair to say, is it fair to give pastors of

00:17:41.300 50 years ago a pass and say they didn't have to be political because the issues, the political

00:17:46.620 issues of their day were not of the same moral weight as they are now? Is that a fair thing to

00:17:51.980 say? What do you guys think? I mean, the good way, like Stephen Wolf, he would say pastors should

00:18:01.320 largely avoid politics because he views the church in its formal function, so word and sacrament,

00:18:06.660 as being primarily dealing with the spiritual good of individuals. And that comes from kind of

00:18:10.280 a two-kingdom framework. And I think that's what we had. And like you said, when the issues were

00:18:15.680 less pressing and less morally dire, I think there is a way to do that and to say, we're going to be

00:18:21.480 focused on discipleship, on the works of Christian piety, the good ones, of prayer, of Bible reading,

00:18:27.840 of good works, of service, I think there is a way to say, yeah, it was acceptable in a certain time

00:18:33.320 and in a certain place to be less focused on that. And that came from the Reformed understanding of

00:18:38.500 the role of the Church as being so critical to not be a social program, to not be about justice,

00:18:43.540 to not necessarily be a soup kitchen for anyone who comes in, but to be primarily focused on

00:18:48.140 the preaching of the word the administration of sacraments for the spiritual good of its attendees

00:18:53.260 so i think i would i would agree there is a context but but that world for better or worse

00:18:58.460 doesn't exist at least at this time in the west i don't know maybe you disagree yeah i don't know

00:19:03.160 um i think that's probably fair i yeah i think that's fair i think you know right now we're just

00:19:09.100 at such a crossroads and so many people are so ignorant and um ill-informed on how their faith

00:19:17.120 actually applies within the civil sphere that, um, and there's not a lot of guys who are doing 0.91

00:19:23.200 that work and discipling, um, Christians. So I, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I, I long for that day 0.67

00:19:31.580 that, uh, that the church, um, you know, that it's, it's word and sacrament. I mean, even then

00:19:38.260 though, I think even in a best case scenario, like you're still going to have, you know, civil

00:19:42.400 application like you had that with the black robe regiment you know and the presbyterian revolt and

00:19:47.860 the you know the founding of our nation and and you had that certainly with john knox you know

00:19:53.480 and like bloody mary and those kinds of things and um so i think yeah i think i would at least

00:20:00.480 partially agree with what you posited michael and saying that because if i think back um if i think

00:20:06.760 back just a little bit if i pan out 50 years then yeah things were a lot cooler and maybe not a lot

00:20:12.560 of political application in either direction in american churches but if i pan further back you

00:20:18.560 know to our founding um there was political application and if i pan further back and look

00:20:23.240 at you know scotland or england and certain time periods there was political application so i think

00:20:28.380 pastors pastors are watchmen on the wall you know they are called to sound the alarm if the city is

00:20:35.560 about to crumble and be destroyed uh then you know i think pastors need to blow the trumpet

00:20:41.760 and and so i think that there are yeah i don't i don't think it's a uh for all of time you know

00:20:47.880 in all places in all times kind of principle i think it's a timely principle and i think that

00:20:52.200 we're in one of those times like right now we're talking about um you know should a christian vote

00:20:58.180 for trump and um and you know and and i'm i don't want to sit here and say oh you know i i don't 0.51

00:21:04.740 want to disparage uh brothers i'll disparage you know purple-haired freaks you know that's fine but 0.52

00:21:11.200 i don't want to disparage brothers in christ who really are considered they're not considering

00:21:15.380 voting for biden but they're considering you know voting third party or you know writing jesus christ

00:21:20.860 on the ballot you know like essentially you know you know they won't write jesus christ but they'll

00:21:25.280 write someone who has an equal chance to winning as jesus christ um and so you know so voting

00:21:30.620 third party or not voting at all um and to be fair because i'm trying to be fair here it's because

00:21:37.280 um it's not easy it's uh the gop has massively compromised just recently on life and then you

00:21:46.180 see the rnc and i've been informed that that you know as it kept going on it was actually got a lot

00:21:52.140 better but i mean they kicked it off with prayers to demon gods you know and i you know the prayer

00:21:57.320 that happened right before that though there was a solid trinitarian prayer offered by a lutheran

00:22:03.540 pastor good um immediately before that and he was told he was the only one doing any sort of

00:22:10.000 blessing at the end um and then they pulled um the sheik right at the end yeah you know i took

00:22:18.080 solace though at least um if you're gonna have a woman offering a prayer to satan at least her

00:22:26.180 her head was covered and i appreciated that you know uh but no uh man this this one hurts to say

00:22:35.760 but joel barry had a good take um he you know he said that uh what did he say oh he said you know

00:22:42.520 that it's you know evangelicals fault it's not your party anymore because um not because you

00:22:47.540 were kicked out or the party you know moved further left than you like because you uh you

00:22:51.740 gave it up and so while uh while the vast majority of evangelicals were going woke and uh and using

00:23:00.940 a house of god a house of worship for people to come and get their 17th booster and pushing the 0.98

00:23:07.600 mask and pushing vaxes um here's this woman who um in in the civil sphere with you know

00:23:15.380 litigation and law and she was gonna defend was doing good work what's the guy in cross 0.99

00:23:21.220 politic who was arrested gabe gabe like she was going to take his case and then her firm didn't

00:23:27.640 have the capacity so they went with someone else but like she was the one who was going to be 0.82

00:23:30.960 defending him and so why so why does uh she gets precedence in a place to offer prayers to a demon 1.00

00:23:38.280 god which is please don't misunderstand me atrocious it should have never ever happened

00:23:43.540 but why does she get that um because she was fighting for christians to not go to jail when

00:23:50.340 the christian pastors who would have offered a prayer to the triune god yes when they were being 0.94

00:23:54.360 gay yeah so that's what you get if you're if evangelical pastors are gonna act effeminate 0.90

00:24:01.880 and not step in when they're needed in 2016 17 18 19 20 20 like then um you know like so i view it

00:24:12.880 as not um people like see this is why evangelicals can't vote for trump right because this is trump's

00:24:18.440 rnc whereas i said well i don't think trump was actually supposed to be there but you know but

00:24:25.460 still let's say it's trump's rnc and what you know and all those kinds of things i mean he's still

00:24:29.540 sitting there on the front row you know he's nodding giving his approval you know he could

00:24:32.920 have got up and walked out so i'm not i'm not sitting here gonna make a defense how trump is

00:24:36.840 blameless because he's not he's not and we definitely know that he is absolutely retracted

00:24:42.000 and and backpedaled substantially on the issue of life and that matters and on the issue of

00:24:47.840 traditional marriage and that matters um so i'm not defending trump uh in that in that light i

00:24:53.380 appreciate other things about trump um but what i am saying is that um for for any question you're

00:24:59.460 saying look this is trump's rnc you can't vote for trump i say uh well no that's that's because

00:25:06.260 evangelicals gave it up we we um you know like why does james lindsey an atheist keep getting to uh

00:25:14.480 invited to speak at you like so you can yeah you can give charlie kirk a hard time you know and he

00:25:20.320 and he sometimes deserves it but he's also got a lot of good stuff i appreciate some things about

00:25:24.700 charlie kirk plenty of compromise you know on the gay issue and those kinds of things i'm you know

00:25:29.100 but my point is this uh you know you'll see the outrage on twitter you know like when um turning

00:25:34.840 point is going to have a pastor summit and you've got an atheist who's scheduled to speak at a

00:25:40.340 christian pastors summit and you're like uh charlie kirk uh you're making a mistake and i would say

00:25:45.920 uh-huh but also don't miss the main point yeah um american christian pastors you already made a

00:25:54.720 mistake why does james lindsey get invited why why why can't charlie find 30 big name faithful

00:26:02.060 christian pastors in a country of 330 million faithful christians and we've talked about this

00:26:07.160 a lot we sent a lot of our bright and our best and our brightest men not to attorneys like we

00:26:12.160 were talking about uh we sent them to the pastor into missions and so in some ways too we curtail

00:26:17.000 what they're able to speak about because they have a congregation to shepherd they have counseling to

00:26:21.420 do uh so completely agree these should be men some of them like charlie kirk like he's not a pastor

00:26:27.240 right he shouldn't be well but he's politically active rama swami can be as outspoken as he is

00:26:32.360 And I don't agree with everything he says because he's got it made.

00:26:37.320 He doesn't have to go and keep his job in order to support his wife and kids.

00:26:41.580 Right.

00:26:41.820 Exactly.

00:26:42.580 But that's the thing.

00:26:44.140 It goes back to the earlier point that I made.

00:26:46.080 In terms of job security for a pastor, one, you should be willing to preach the Word of God regardless of the consequences.

00:26:53.940 And if not, then you need to find another job, period, already.

00:26:58.380 but that aside um it's uh you can have a lot of job security as a pastor talking and making you

00:27:06.960 know theological applications to the realm of politics on a regular basis um but you have to

00:27:13.440 you have to have done that for a while you know like you have to have that kind of church to where

00:27:19.720 it's like right you know like i i have you know like our church has again we're three and a half

00:27:24.920 years old the jury's still out we'll see what the lord does but um there's a decent amount of

00:27:30.660 job security and a and a regular consistent you know flock of people who are there um

00:27:37.640 and i'm not worried you know like uh you know we i started off the service by praying for

00:27:43.740 president trump right after the assassination that happened on saturday this past sunday i

00:27:48.020 prayed for president trump and i wasn't worried um that if i prayed or who did you even actually

00:27:54.080 prayed before that for what situation before that i prayed for a family in our church exactly right

00:27:59.300 that had an emergency and i'm a local pastor first so first i prayed for the family in our church i

00:28:04.240 just visited uh visited uh the young man in the hospital today and prayed for him in person so we

00:28:10.240 did that first because that's what pastors do and then i prayed for uh president trump and i i thank

00:28:16.880 the lord for his life i thank the lord for his courage that was a great response right yeah he's

00:28:23.540 backtracking on life that matters he stood up in danger of being hit in the face with a bullet

00:28:29.680 and encouraged didn't just console but then charged his hearers to not back down because

00:28:36.800 that's what that event an event like that what it's meant to do is to scare you yeah it's it's 0.94

00:28:42.340 meant to say look um if you don't let us have our way um we'll kill you and that is the left i mean

00:28:50.360 that is that's that's their mantra is um if we uh first uh we'll rig the system mail-in ballots 0.97

00:28:57.420 ballot harvesting you know like we'll lock down your churches we'll do all these things

00:29:01.460 uh secondly if uh if we get the sense that it's too big to rig um then we'll just we'll kill plan 0.98

00:29:09.100 b and it's like well that's not the left that's just one crazy guy no no if you spend eight years

00:29:15.480 publicly telling everyone that a man is adolf hitler and a threat to our very way of life and

00:29:21.620 that the entire country will be destroyed and go up in flames if he's elected and it may go up in

00:29:26.760 flames because democrats will have mostly peaceful riots you know if he's elected but if you do that

00:29:31.700 then no you actually do have some responsibility right and for the record honestly the sandy hook

00:29:36.940 stuff with uh alex jones which i i think that was a massive mistake on alex jones part um but

00:29:42.800 But any of these influencers like Destiny and some of these guys coming out,

00:29:47.600 and not just saying Trump's Hitler or saying,

00:29:51.760 oh, I wish the bullet hit him, but saying that it was faked. 0.99

00:29:55.300 There's a dead man.

00:29:56.540 A father died.

00:29:57.520 A husband died.

00:29:59.140 Destiny should be sued into the dirt. 1.00

00:30:02.100 Conservatives and Christians have to wield power, 1.00

00:30:07.320 and you have to wield it righteously. 0.98

00:30:08.520 The goal is not this idea of like, well, the ring, you know, it must be destroyed, you know, it can't be used, take it to Mordor, cast it in.

00:30:17.460 No, the ring was instituted by God.

00:30:19.560 You can't destroy the ring.

00:30:20.680 There is no Mordor.

00:30:21.800 The ring, which is politics, political power, civil power, that is a divine institution.

00:30:27.900 God instituted the state to crush the evildoer and to reward the righteous.

00:30:33.240 That is a ring that doesn't get melted.

00:30:35.820 It doesn't get unmade.

00:30:36.940 god made it and it's going to stand so it's it's a weather it's it's one of those situations where

00:30:41.920 it's not weather but which you're going to have the ring you're going to have political power

00:30:46.140 it's going to be used wielded righteously or it's going to be wielded wickedly and so in this case

00:30:52.920 what conservatives do is they don't need to just constitution even harder and try to put in

00:30:58.240 restraints to make sure that you know uh that we won't use any civil power and then we'll try to

00:31:04.120 make sure that when the left comes in again because they'll beat us inevitably eventually

00:31:08.340 you know that they can't use power either no that is not the solution um if if if not using preferred

00:31:16.920 pronouns uh gets you canceled and you lose your job because people make you go viral on social

00:31:24.300 media that's what was happening to conservatives i don't want to call a man she at work and you

00:31:31.860 cannot make me do that by god's law by his word or by even the law of the land you cannot make me

00:31:38.720 do that and any conservative that resisted in the workplace for pronouns for pronouns uh the left

00:31:46.260 gleefully would make them go viral on social media put pressure on their employers and ensure

00:31:52.060 that they lost their job so um if we're not talking about this isn't equal this isn't pronouns

00:31:59.880 if we're talking about someone who says golly wish uh wish they didn't miss um i wish i wish

00:32:07.900 trump was dead right and even though i missed him at least they got one of his supporters

00:32:13.360 uh then yes sweetheart uh enjoy unemployment yep absolutely conservatives need to stop being

00:32:22.680 cowardly and use power use power this idea of cancel culture you know that we can't do

00:32:29.600 no no no no cancel wickedness that's what power is meant to do it's meant to be and and that's

00:32:37.120 a political power under the law but there's also a social cultural power there are cultural

00:32:42.760 consequences if our nation by god's grace you know one of the reasons why we don't have revival

00:32:48.000 because christians don't want it they don't want it because you know what revival uh what revival

00:32:54.620 entails is not just a change of heart but it also entails a hardening of the stomach right christians

00:33:01.800 do not have the stomach for revival because revival means that the righteous are as bold

00:33:07.540 as lions it means that the righteous do something it means that the righteous wield power christians

00:33:14.060 don't want revival because you know what revival the heart means it eventually applies and comes

00:33:18.360 out of the hands and the feet and it looks like righteousness in the land and righteousness in the

00:33:22.600 land crushes wickedness and what does that mean crushing it doesn't mean everybody gets the death

00:33:27.160 penalty but it means what is according to god's law so a revival and and a true revival of the

00:33:34.020 american populace in the heart what it would then look like in in the application the political it

00:33:39.500 would look like millions of people being deported it would look like mothers getting death row for

00:33:46.520 murdering their children because the likelihood is 100 christians don't have the stomach for right

00:33:51.000 They don't want revival. 0.99

00:33:52.320 Yep.

00:33:52.840 100% of the population, I mean, barring something, you know, the day before Christ returns, would not repent, even in a revival. 0.71

00:34:02.040 And so then Christian magistrates are going to have to come in and, with a moral mandate, impose righteousness. 0.81

00:34:09.380 And there are going to be tears, and there's going to be gnashing of teeth. 0.78

00:34:12.820 Well, what did repentance look like for Israel?

00:34:14.980 Think about this. 1.00

00:34:15.760 So they had a great city and a great temple, and it was all destroyed because of their

00:34:22.600 unbelief and hardness of heart and rebellion against God.

00:34:26.160 And they went as punishment, a just judgment, because of their unfaithfulness to Yahweh.

00:34:31.720 They went into exile for 70 years in Babylon.

00:34:34.420 Eventually, God raised someone up, a Trump-type, Caesar-type.

00:34:39.060 I don't think Trump is a Caesar.

00:34:40.040 I wish he was, but he's not.

00:34:42.120 But, you know, like a Cyrus.

00:34:43.780 and Cyrus was not necessarily regenerate.

00:34:47.260 He wasn't necessarily a Christian himself,

00:34:48.840 but God in his sovereignty,

00:34:50.720 he turned the head of the king

00:34:52.880 with that PowerPoint, saving lives.

00:34:55.500 And Cyrus granted to Israel out of his own dowry

00:35:00.520 the resources and permission to go back into Israel

00:35:03.960 and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem in the temple.

00:35:07.080 And they go underway with this rebuilding project,

00:35:09.840 project. But then they realize that God speaks to them out of his law. Ezra, the scribe, a preacher,

00:35:19.140 brings to them the law of the Lord. And they realize, oh, repentance doesn't just mean

00:35:24.260 rebuilding the rubble. Because we talk about that a lot. We talk about we want to rebuild

00:35:28.540 our civilization. America was a great, let's make it great again. Well, you don't get to just make

00:35:32.900 it great again without also extracting out of it all of the poisonous building blocks

00:35:40.000 that cause it to fall in the first place.

00:35:42.240 So it's a twofold repentance.

00:35:43.660 It's rebuilding, but it's also extracting.

00:35:46.680 It's rebuilding, but also removing.

00:35:49.240 And what's the removing piece?

00:35:50.460 We know the rebuilding piece, right?

00:35:52.020 Sword in one hand, you know, and the trowel in the other.

00:35:54.740 We're building and we're fighting and it's beautiful and that'll preach all day long. 0.94

00:35:58.500 But there's also another little part at the end of Ezra where they have to send half of the nation away, their wives, their children, because they don't belong, because they are not Israel. 0.73

00:36:11.640 And it was a breach of God's law. 0.98

00:36:14.400 That one will preach.

00:36:15.920 Who's going to preach it?

00:36:17.860 I'll preach it.

00:36:19.300 Already have.

00:36:20.240 I'll preach it again.

00:36:20.900 But my point is, revival requires a change of heart, but it also requires a hardening of the stomach.

00:36:30.460 I think people want the hearts of revival, but they don't have the stomachs for it.

00:36:34.780 And you're talking, just before we go to the break, you're taking off kind of the pastor hat.

00:36:38.760 So you're not speaking as the pastor of a local church.

00:36:41.040 Destiny's here asking for forgiveness.

00:36:42.940 You should be unemployed.

00:36:44.020 Took off the pastor hat, got out of the church category, still all under the banner of Christ's sovereignty,

00:36:49.480 and said but politically socially culturally these are the change that have to happen but

00:36:54.820 so many pastors he's not just shooting exactly right under christ's sovereignty so many pastors

00:36:59.760 they're stuck in that that church mode well what about mercy what about what about okay

00:37:03.500 you have to think about trump but love your enemy this side together well this is to be honest this

00:37:09.180 is one of the reasons why people had uh such a problem with doug wilson and i'm going to say it

00:37:13.820 because it's a good chance for people to learn to think in categories,

00:37:18.500 and people need to hear this.

00:37:21.360 So Doug Wilson, in the political, in that category of the state, right,

00:37:27.220 the home, the church, the state, in the category of the state,

00:37:30.480 Doug Wilson, as a theonomist, he believes that a sex offender, 0.92

00:37:37.000 especially one with minors, that he should get the death penalty,

00:37:42.400 and that that is god's law that is what uh that's what's just but as a pastor what do you do here's

00:37:51.920 here's part of the problem it what one of the reasons why um it makes it harder on the church

00:37:56.840 uh it's hard on the church when you don't have a christian state why for a number of reasons here's

00:38:03.300 one it's hard on the christian church when you don't have a christian prince a christian civil

00:38:09.320 magistrate because for at least one reason you have a bunch of people that um that shouldn't

00:38:15.520 actually even be alive right right and it's like oh my gosh he's just hyperbolic he's just using

00:38:22.520 this no no no um the noaic covenant genesis chapter 9 life for a life uh if a woman murders

00:38:31.160 her unborn child uh she should get the death penalty if you had a christian state we don't

00:38:37.980 now the church has been given the keys of the kingdom but the sword is not the churches it 1.00

00:38:44.540 belongs to the state so the church then has to deal with one in four women i believe is the

00:38:50.300 statistic 25 of women 25 of women nationwide um are murderers and that's not to say that men

00:39:00.120 or any man who's involved in that decision court he's a murderer as well but so then what do you

00:39:05.140 do well in the church setting what you do is you require repentance confession yeah but then

00:39:11.980 there's assurance and pardon and that person is then welcomed back into the church rush to me

00:39:19.260 actually talked about this with abortion now he actually took a even stronger stance than i take

00:39:23.420 believe it or not uh his stance was that uh that they could be welcomed back admitted back into

00:39:28.660 the church as members um and that the church would retain their membership upon confession of sin

00:39:34.980 and repentance, but that for the rest of their life, that they would be barred from the table.

00:39:39.680 Wow. I didn't know that. A woman who had committed abortion. Wow. That she could not come to the

00:39:45.540 table. That's not my position because, well, partly because I'm a Baptist. And so I see,

00:39:52.820 you know, three things as a triple-braided core, church membership, baptism, and the Lord's Supper.

00:39:58.080 And so I don't like severing those. I don't like, you get baptism, and then 13 years later,

00:40:02.340 you get this and so i you know so anyways um i think if you're a member in the church and the

00:40:07.400 table belongs to you an entrance into membership in the church is faith which is always followed

00:40:12.300 by baptism and so all that being said uh but the point is yeah wes is right i'm speaking um in the

00:40:19.320 i was speaking earlier in the political vein in the political vein um yes the state uh will have 0.93

00:40:26.260 to remove illegal immigrants of course and and politically speaking the state needs to execute 0.91

00:40:34.660 murderers of course and pedophiles of course of course they do uh in the church i'm not saying 0.99

00:40:42.240 that christians um should should dress up like batman in the middle of the night to be vigil 0.70

00:40:47.980 aunties in case no the batman maybe maybe yeah maybe dress up like just for fun um but no of

00:40:54.300 course i'm not saying that but that said we do need christians in that's right the sphere of the

00:40:59.740 state right duly elected uh christian civil magistrates and then they would carry these

00:41:05.520 things out but they wouldn't be doing it as the church they would be doing it as christians in

00:41:10.260 the state so none of these things are in contradiction and that's the gotcha that

00:41:13.980 everybody's like oh you know like you're supposed to be about mercy and forgiveness like yeah if

00:41:18.620 destiny shows up at our church and he makes a confession of sin and not just the things that he

00:41:23.400 tweeted out recently but like a confession of all of his sin and professes faith in the lord

00:41:29.100 jesus christ then uh then it would be my privilege and honor to baptize him right and to administer

00:41:35.720 to him the lord's supper and he would be permitted to be a member in our church absolutely um and at

00:41:43.140 the same time uh the state with a legal apparatus the same whatever code they used to sue alex jones

00:41:51.480 for billions of dollars that hammer should come down on him there's a real family right whose dad

00:41:58.280 husband really died really died using his body as a human shield to protect his daughters

00:42:04.480 and uh that family on behalf of that family destiny should be sued into the dirt for saying

00:42:10.580 this never happened that's the legal apparatus the church over here um come and take the lord's

00:42:17.740 supper and I'll buy you lunch because you're broke. That's right. And all of those things

00:42:24.880 are good. Amen. All right. Let's hit a commercial break. Yeah. Yeah. Are you desiring to change

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00:44:25.060 all right welcome back so we're going to move on now we're going to deal with

00:44:32.040 some comments. I saw some people in the chat mentioned it earlier from the interview that

00:44:37.700 Matt Chandler had with Lecrae. And the reason we're dealing with this is not just to keep

00:44:42.300 dunking on Matt Chandler, but because the comments that he makes typify, I think, a lot of what

00:44:50.520 evangelical pastors would say in their approach to politics. And in particular, he has this view

00:44:58.800 where that some of it we're going to agree with,

00:45:01.960 that the gospel should have an impact on the world.

00:45:04.360 But the problem is some of the outworkings

00:45:07.640 are very liberal that he has, right?

00:45:09.940 And so we would say yes and amen,

00:45:11.240 the gospel should make a change in the world.

00:45:14.100 See what I did there?

00:45:14.880 That's his phrase, the yes and amen thing.

00:45:17.880 But he imports a lot of progressive ideas.

00:45:22.760 So we're going to do the first clip

00:45:23.800 and there will be some things to agree with here

00:45:26.160 and then some things to disagree with

00:45:28.060 and then we'll move on to a second clip which is a little more yikes all right but you said

00:45:34.180 something and i thought it was very potent and you said oftentimes you know people are just saying

00:45:41.480 well you just need to preach the gospel you know and it's like but you don't tell that to sex

00:45:46.160 traffickers you don't say hey go preach the gospel and that'll stop sex trafficking you know

00:45:49.860 you don't you you take action yeah and i thought that was very very powerful have you like do you

00:45:57.740 arrive there supernaturally like, wow, or are you asking questions and you get there? How do you

00:46:03.540 land the plane in some of these places? Well, I mean, I think honestly, the gospel speaks into

00:46:08.980 every issue. The gospel, like the gospel of the kingdom's about making a whole different kind of

00:46:14.700 community. Yeah. It's not so to preach the gospel as though it's just individual salvation is

00:46:22.340 reductionistic. The kingdom of God is God forming a people that reveals his beauty and grace,

00:46:32.640 his truth, beauty, and goodness to the world around him. And this has been his plan from day

00:46:37.700 one. And so the gospel does create individual children of God, but it also creates a community

00:46:48.200 that's meant to operate a specific way.

00:46:50.900 So the argument just preached the gospel on really any of those subjects.

00:46:55.280 I'm just like, this is the gospel.

00:46:57.620 The gospel creates this kind of community.

00:47:01.140 The gospel saves people into the family of God who are now ordered by family law.

00:47:06.540 This stuff's family law.

00:47:08.280 It doesn't save, but the saved are moving in this direction,

00:47:12.520 which is why Paul rebuked Peter when he downshifted back into his racism and said,

00:47:19.240 this is out of step with what? The gospel. This is out of step with the gospel. He doesn't mean

00:47:24.600 Peter's personal salvation. He means the kingdom of God making its way through the ancient world.

00:47:31.820 And so again, I think it's an easy straw man argument that happens all the time. I was just

00:47:36.580 on a podcast with a guy out in, well, he's in Seattle now. He's in San Francisco, former NFL

00:47:42.480 player. And we were talking about taking care of the body. And then it popped up there. It was like,

00:47:47.740 I didn't know Matt Chandler didn't preach the gospel anymore. And I was like, well,

00:47:51.180 this is an implication of the kind of community God's building. Nobody's going to get saved by

00:47:58.540 spinach and sleep, some Pilates, going for a walk. But God cares about our physical health.

00:48:06.580 right he does care about our physical health and stewarding our bodies towards the good work of

00:48:11.940 his kingdom yeah and so that that's i mean i i hate that that little phrase is it just shows

00:48:17.480 what we've how we've reduced the gospel to this single moment of conversion rather than the

00:48:24.580 gospel being for all of life for all of life let me say something all right that that's

00:48:30.420 so it's it's i mean it's terrible and it's great at the same time so uh let me tell you what's

00:48:36.560 great about it um what's great about it is well i'll just i'll say it like this there are two

00:48:40.940 mistakes here number one um you do need to be clear in your language in terms of um a distinction

00:48:46.880 between the gospel itself the gospel proper and the fruit that the gospel brings about what the

00:48:52.360 gospel does right so there there's the gospel and then there's uh the fruit of the gospel right

00:48:58.620 There's cause and there's results.

00:49:00.740 So we've got to be careful about saying, well, I'm doing the gospel.

00:49:03.980 Well, the gospel is not something to be done.

00:49:05.780 The gospel is a proclamation of what has already been done by Jesus Christ.

00:49:10.880 So, but I don't, I actually don't want to give Matt Chandler that hard of a time on

00:49:14.340 that, right?

00:49:14.920 So that, yeah, you can make a couple of comments about, you know, some of the semantics and

00:49:18.620 how he framed and how he particularly worded, you know, gospel proper versus fruit of the

00:49:25.100 gospel.

00:49:25.440 And if you're not careful there, it does matter because if you're not careful there,

00:49:28.100 that's where you get into the galatian heresy and this kind of blending uh between you know

00:49:33.280 faith and works and the gospel becomes something that you do rather than something that christ

00:49:37.640 has done that we believe um so aside from that though that's not that's not the biggest issue

00:49:42.020 that matters but that's um everything else fantastic um except i know how he's going to

00:49:49.300 apply it um i said this years ago probably two years ago at this point um as i was coming into

00:49:57.420 some Kuyperian convictions. And you don't have to be Kuyperian. You can be a classical two-kingdom

00:50:02.400 guy and have to, you know, hold to the traditional reformed, you know, position and still be able to

00:50:09.260 yes and amen what I'm about to say. But as I was coming into, you know, Abraham Kuyper and not all

00:50:13.660 of Kuyper's stuff, but in the same way that someone says, I'm a Calvinist, and they may not

00:50:17.120 agree with everything in the Institutes, you know, like all 900 pages, but what do they mean?

00:50:21.740 They mean, well, the crux of Calvinism, what he's probably most remembered for being the tulip, you know, total depravity, unconditional election, you know, limited atonement and irresistible grace and perseverance of the saints.

00:50:35.700 I'm a Calvinist in terms of the mode of operation of how God saves people.

00:50:39.940 Soteriology, that's what I mean.

00:50:41.680 God is sovereign over salvation.

00:50:43.200 I'm a Calvinist.

00:50:44.540 Well, in a very similar sense, that's what I mean when I say I'm Kuyperian.

00:50:48.800 I don't agree with everything that Kuyper did.

00:50:50.340 I think he did some great things.

00:50:51.320 I also think you can draw kind of a straight line from Kuyper to some problems later on.

00:50:55.620 But when I say I'm a Kuyperian, what I mean is this.

00:50:58.600 Calvin, his kind of magnum opus is, you know, the tulip.

00:51:04.500 Kuyper, if he had, you know, any magnum opus, it would have been the quote that says,

00:51:09.420 there's not a single inch of all of God's creation that Christ doesn't cry out mine.

00:51:15.160 um so what is what's the uh the you know the the mantra of uh of kyperianism all of christ

00:51:23.020 right for all of life and so what i said about keller a few years back and it's exactly the

00:51:28.780 same thing it it holds perfectly true for chandler is this um the problem was not that they uh that

00:51:36.340 they realized we need to get out of a reductionist gospel right some of the things he's saying there

00:51:42.380 about the gospel of the kingdom i mean some of the things he's saying there our macarthur brothers

00:51:48.880 need to hear yep you know what i mean like some of the things i'm like oh no i'd like them to hear

00:51:54.800 it from us and not from chandler you know but um but some of those things i'm like no he these guys

00:52:00.360 these woke guys i because here's the thing the reason why i want to be accurate and precise and

00:52:05.880 surgical in identifying you know diagnosing what went wrong is because i don't want us to make the

00:52:11.140 same mistake again. Because initially in like 2017, 18, 19, 20, you know, in those first few

00:52:18.160 years of the woke wars, our only line of defense from the conservative side of the aisle was,

00:52:23.280 this is the Galatian heresy, you're mixing works with faith, you know, you don't just do the gospel,

00:52:30.280 the gospel is just to be believed. But really, and that was the only defense, that was the only

00:52:35.340 defense coming from the conservative side of the aisle against wokeness. And essentially,

00:52:39.720 so what we were doing as a defense is we were saying um we're saying you can't have a woke

00:52:44.900 church instead you need a conservative church no an impotent church an impotent church church that

00:52:51.980 does nothing well here's the deal um these woke guys were right they were right and and what i'm

00:52:58.740 going to say is this i think they were right in in this kyperian framework of all of christ for all

00:53:04.280 of life um they were right in the sense that the conservative guys were saying all of christ

00:53:09.440 but for some of life and then guys like chandler and guys like keller they were saying um they were

00:53:20.980 saying no not some of life all of life the problem is it wasn't christ tim keller's problem was not

00:53:27.260 trying to make the christian faith for all of life the problem was that it wasn't all of christ for

00:53:32.240 all of life. It was all of Marx for all of life. And the same with Chandler. Chandler doesn't want

00:53:37.200 all of Christ for all of life. He wants all of Karl Marx for all of life. But then the conservative

00:53:42.660 guys, they want all of Christ, but only for some of life. And that's not really great either. And so

00:53:49.260 we really do want the kingdom of God, and we do want a gospel of the kingdom.

00:53:59.440 But what these guys are advocating for is not the kingdom of God.

00:54:04.120 They don't just like the kingdom but hate the king.

00:54:08.420 No, they hate both. 0.88

00:54:10.080 Because the kingdom doesn't murder babies.

00:54:12.840 The kingdom doesn't have illegal immigration.

00:54:16.200 The kingdom doesn't cause inflation and tax your future grandchildren to where they can never have a life.

00:54:22.940 That's not what the kingdom does.

00:54:24.720 That's not the kingdom.

00:54:25.440 and he gets into it at the end where he's starting to recognize like maybe working out and being

00:54:30.040 healthy actually does matter because the big problem when you start to do that whole kingdom

00:54:33.940 thing they preachers do this they talk about jesus's upside down kingdom where everything's

00:54:38.580 inverted such a dumb phrase but they do this there's this upside down kingdom that just it

00:54:43.580 really eliminates nature so there's nature and then the gospel and salvation elevates it above us 0.90

00:54:48.660 and you can see at the end him there kind of starting to recognize like well we started to

00:54:52.120 do this the last are first the fat are skinny yeah skinny and then oh well no the fat actually

00:54:57.040 still do die early the fat are still fat yep the fat are still fat and uh and nature will continue 0.63

00:55:02.020 to push back as they try to do this silly grace eliminates nature grace destroys nature

00:55:07.680 because nature you've said it before nature finds a way god didn't make us to to thrive when we eat

00:55:14.360 good food and are active to have a family that's very important to us to have nations with borders

00:55:19.820 and boundaries that are built for our own self-interest, that nature is really problematic

00:55:24.740 when you try to propose, as he's kind of going to do, that grace and spirituality and the

00:55:29.660 kingdom of God just eliminate those things.

00:55:31.720 They restore and perfect nature, not destroy and abolish it.

00:55:35.320 I did notice, too, that he mentioned the gospel of the kingdom, and then he said the gospel

00:55:43.220 is making a new kind of community.

00:55:45.600 So, Joel, I agree with what you're saying about the sum of Christ for all of life and all of Marx or sum of all of life or that distinction.

00:55:53.800 But I don't hear him calling necessarily here for Christ's rule over politics.

00:56:00.680 I think he's saying the church, like the church needs to go out and march in BLM rallies because we're a different kind of community now.

00:56:07.540 Right.

00:56:07.800 Right.

00:56:08.420 And so even there, I think he's truncated. 0.94

00:56:10.100 uh he i you know i i'm i and i don't you know well that's i don't know how far another kuiper

00:56:15.460 aspect in terms of you know sphere sovereignty yep yeah yeah you're probably right he's probably

00:56:20.380 saying you know the church should do all these things oh i know he would say that because he

00:56:24.840 would definitely say that with like welfare right you know something like um you don't like the

00:56:29.280 state feeding people well fine you feed them the church but i mean you think about the for a moment

00:56:34.740 do you know how many uh people we have right in the united states on welfare do you know what the

00:56:39.140 cost is. When you say the church should do that, what you're saying is that every Christian should 0.58

00:56:45.020 starve their children to feed the children whose parents abandoned them. And the Bible does not 0.89

00:56:52.740 call us to do that. Not only does it not call us to do that, the Bible says that if you do that,

00:56:57.960 you've denied the faith and you're worse than an unbeliever. If your children die and you attempt 0.89

00:57:03.780 to save someone else's child, you've denied the faith and you're worse than an unbeliever. 0.92

00:57:09.140 uh you it's not just permissible to love your own natural affections are not permissible 0.96

00:57:14.080 they're required they're required yeah they're commanded yeah man we put so much weight the

00:57:19.460 reformed resurgence because a lot of institutions were dying in credibility the university our

00:57:24.500 workplaces corporations their credibility was going down as we moved into negative world and

00:57:29.280 you had this ascendancy of the reformed resurgence these young guys were getting reformed or

00:57:32.860 rediscovering calvin and it was almost like i think of indiana jones where he swaps the idol

00:57:36.900 out so you have these dying institutions the family the church or the family the state education

00:57:42.900 vocation all these things it was like well all of these are kind of going down the tube what if we

00:57:47.220 just kind of put the church there and all my social life and all my matchmaking and all my

00:57:50.820 politics and all of this that or the other and even the best vocations they all flow out of the

00:57:55.420 church but our ancestors like our spiritual forefathers they did not think that way there

00:58:00.000 was the family a distinct sphere with its head with its with its rule under christ of course

00:58:05.200 there was the family there was the church there was the state there's the marketplace there's

00:58:09.140 education again all under christ but distinct in the role and what we did especially us reform guys

00:58:15.200 i'm guilty of it man 2005 2010 2015 we just took the church like a balloon and blew it up and said

00:58:22.660 we're going to subsume everything underneath this all of our social life all of our activities all

00:58:27.420 of our friendships everything flows out of the church and you see chandler doing it here oh well

00:58:31.340 the church do this, the church do that.

00:58:33.000 Well, no, the church's primary role, word and sacrament.

00:58:37.180 Some of those good works as possible to do

00:58:39.440 for the widows that truly need it.

00:58:41.020 But even the first fallback for that,

00:58:42.820 the family, these distinct spheres.

00:58:44.740 Yeah, Paul has an entire chapter, 1 Timothy 5,

00:58:47.500 where he gives like a million qualifiers

00:58:50.700 and conditions that have to be met

00:58:54.600 before the church would care for an ex-criminal.

00:58:58.460 No, before the church would even consider

00:59:00.880 caring for a widow or an orphan the most helpless people in all of society so you could you're not

00:59:07.100 just it's not just uh being poor makes you qualified for the church's benevolence right

00:59:11.580 no you have to be the most helpless of poor people in a society widows and orphans and even that

00:59:17.560 doesn't qualify you for the church's benevolence um you got to be an orphan or a widow of a

00:59:23.960 particular age have been faithful and have no other living relative to meet your need because

00:59:32.060 if you do then the burden of welfare physical welfare falls upon the family the sphere of the

00:59:38.980 family long before it falls on the church that's properly ordered affections and duties that

00:59:46.540 belongs to fathers pastors have not been given the burden of clothing people fathers have been

00:59:53.240 given the burden of clothing people. And that's another one of those things. We have not received

00:59:59.540 the hearts of revival because we don't have the stomachs for revival. And that's just one more.

01:00:06.220 We don't have the stomachs to export the millions of people that would have to be deported. But not

01:00:14.140 only that, we don't have the stomachs to actually lay down the law and what should be the consequence

01:00:20.440 for abortion and murder we also don't have the stomachs um to turn away the hungry and the

01:00:28.120 hurting and say i'm so sorry i'm truly sorry um but your father doesn't love you and part of it

01:00:37.380 he's chose not to house you not to feed you not to provide for you um now there's a good church

01:00:43.560 in town you can go and see but they're going to be meeting the needs of the household of faith

01:00:48.880 first because they're they're commanded to in galatians and they may not have anything left

01:00:54.240 that like that's what repentance would look like part of it though is knowing the time that we live

01:01:00.860 in because for instance spursion was very charitable and their church was very charitable

01:01:05.060 charitable to the poor but the poor in london at that time was a different kind of poverty

01:01:09.840 than we have now in america now i mean it was the brookings institute and this has been quoted all

01:01:15.400 the time but to stay out of poverty in america graduate high school don't have kids before you

01:01:20.020 get married keep a job you can feed your kids right right the the poor in london that was not

01:01:26.300 the situation jobs were difficult to come by they were paying just pennies a day they were people's

01:01:31.940 and so you know then the the church might say this is this is not a self-induced poverty right over

01:01:37.460 here whereas the a lot i'm not going to say all but a lot of poverty we see in in a country like

01:01:43.000 america is a self-induced poverty from laziness uh very foolish choices or rebellion to your

01:01:49.620 parents and to the state and nothing you said disqualified individual christians that's correct

01:01:55.500 from writing a 25 000 check to really help out a family that had a medical need yep so maybe if

01:02:00.700 the church can't formally take on a woman or or help out somebody individual christians it's

01:02:05.800 commendable the proverb speaks of the blessing of those who care for the poor again if they have

01:02:09.920 capacity so not taking your thousand dollars for food that month the last thousand not giving it

01:02:14.260 away right not taking it at the cost of your kids exactly right but generosity christians to

01:02:19.880 christians because there is a christian family both talk speak of brothers and sisters in the

01:02:23.900 faith so that family is more than welcome encouraged exhorted to be generous as they

01:02:29.000 have ability but we're talking about the church as a formal institution right is not demanded of

01:02:33.920 them yeah anyone that shows up at their door has a right to the coffers well said yeah when paul's

01:02:38.680 writing these qualifications to timothy he's writing to a young pastor and he's saying these

01:02:43.140 are the official qualifications for a church sanctioned benevolence yes he says do not admit

01:02:50.240 a widow he's talking about a church roster so he's talking so what he's talking about is the

01:02:54.900 widows who'd receive funds for their provision from the church's corporate finances he's not

01:03:02.140 saying what one you know uh individual christian family can do with their they can do whatever

01:03:07.660 they want with their right i mean even anias and sapphira like that's what peter says the land was

01:03:12.260 yours and when you sold it was it not your money right the only reason that god struck them dead

01:03:18.300 was not because uh they didn't practice socialism properly right the apostles weren't socialist

01:03:24.480 no it's because they were trying to appear more generous than they really were right it's not that

01:03:29.780 they withheld they can withheld anything they want but the question was is this the full sum

01:03:35.100 that you sold the land for and they said yes why because of pride they were trying to say

01:03:39.780 look we are giving everything to the church when the reality is god doesn't put them to death

01:03:46.020 because they didn't give everything to the church he puts them to death because they didn't give

01:03:49.900 everything to the church but they wanted to appear as though they had virtue signaling before social

01:03:55.360 media that's right god kills virtue signalers it's not that god kills anti-socialists no it's

01:04:02.120 that god kills virtue signalers who happen to usually be socialist socialist i was about to

01:04:07.120 say there's two categories there right so again the direct opposite takeaway but anyway so all

01:04:13.420 that being said yeah that it's important for us to recognize like the category i like that you

01:04:18.280 brought that up west because an individual christian can um can pull the lever on the

01:04:24.440 platform for a criminal to drop and be hung if he's in the civil magistrate and that person had

01:04:31.520 a fair trial and was proven guilty, right? And an individual Christian could meet the needs of 0.82

01:04:37.700 somebody who is outside the household of faith, who hasn't been faithful, but their heart is

01:04:43.060 moved to compassion. They feel like the Lord leading them in that direction. You can do that

01:04:46.320 too. That would be from the sphere of an individual household, a family. But as a church

01:04:53.920 institute, there are requirements of what we can do and what we can't.

01:04:59.280 Okay, so takeaway from there is it is good for pastors to preach the effects of the gospel

01:05:06.080 in society. It is bad for pastors to preach the Marxist platform and how it ought to influence

01:05:12.160 society. All right, so let's go on to the second clip here. If you're driving, just maybe pull over.

01:05:17.700 This one's a doozy. Then there's this group of men and women that deeply love Jesus,

01:05:23.920 and are confused at what it looks like to follow him,

01:05:27.920 and I'm going to aim right at that.

01:05:30.260 And so I'm going to do a six-week series called Thrones and Thorns,

01:05:35.840 and I'm just going to go right at it.

01:05:37.160 Okay.

01:05:37.460 And I'm going to just lay out God's vision for authority, 0.79

01:05:44.040 his kingly reign, where we ultimately give allegiance to,

01:05:48.420 how we're good citizens, why policy actually matters,

01:05:53.060 What is Christian nationalism and what isn't? 1.00

01:05:57.200 Yeah, I just think that's such a way to shut people down. 1.00

01:06:01.100 Oh, that's Christian nationalism. 1.00

01:06:02.520 Well, okay, maybe, but maybe not. 0.67

01:06:06.020 So it's going to be an interesting fall, but I just plan on going at it.

01:06:10.900 Would you, regardless of, this is a little bit of an underwater question, but you can swim.

01:06:17.500 uh regardless of whatever political party let's say it's republican let's say it's democrat

01:06:28.000 if those if you have a a senator from either party in your congregation and they're like hey

01:06:37.180 will you come be a part of said thing how do you how do you never okay and and we even had and i'm

01:06:44.500 glad there's someone in the room that knows my world uh not you but my assistant over here but

01:06:48.680 we literally had the governor of the state of texas show up and then call us be like hey we'd

01:06:53.880 love to say a prayer or something i was like yeah no okay i'll pray for you yeah but no we don't do

01:07:00.440 that now i will say that might change for me on local issues like school board issues things like

01:07:05.620 that i might be a little bit more vocal about um but no sir you don't get to use my pulpit for that

01:07:12.220 um yeah here's the best thing i've heard and i'll i'll certainly say this this fall

01:07:17.680 one neither side is for us that's good neither side is for us good and this is nt right so i'm

01:07:24.440 stealing from nt right michael bird jesus and the powers you gave him credit now sure you say

01:07:28.940 um no this is the second time i've said it so it's the third time i'm gonna say a friend of

01:07:33.580 mine says is it in the overcomers book no it's not i should i it was this book came out after

01:07:37.320 but he said i just thought this was brilliant that the left wants the kingdom but does not

01:07:44.980 want the king and the right wants the king but does not want the kingdom goodness sakes i'm gonna

01:07:52.200 say it i'm gonna say it cray and then i'm gonna probably say it like i thought of it in the fall

01:07:57.880 i can't do that now we're dang it we might edit that out that's good isn't that great because

01:08:02.820 that's my experience but like you you like the you bring up you bring up king jesus over here

01:08:10.180 yes that's a problem hey but you bring up the poor yeah you you bring up immigration yeah you

01:08:17.520 bring up so even now i know if you're a righty and you just heard me say like jealous for open 0.96

01:08:20.940 borders no i'm not i didn't say that yeah but that's the french that's how they're going to

01:08:24.500 respond to anything there's no nuance so i'm not i'm not even like whatever sure okay yeah that's 0.76

01:08:29.800 what i believe and i'm gonna let the crickets chirp oh so gay hey yeah i don't even know where 0.54

01:08:39.620 to go if i ever start making that many sounds into the microphone while someone else is talking you 0.95

01:08:43.780 have permission to just commit a homicide here if i start whooping and just just end it so i mean

01:08:52.540 the most apparent thing that we should just point out real quick the left wants the kingdom without

01:08:56.060 the king the right wants the king without the kingdom um i will say this i think that um

01:09:01.620 the right insofar as it represents evangelical pastors on the right i think that's true they uh

01:09:09.220 they want the king without the kingdom that's what you were saying earlier that's what i was

01:09:12.260 saying earlier that doesn't define the right um politically outside of the sphere of the church

01:09:17.560 there's a lot of people on the right that really do want the kingdom right and uh and that when it

01:09:22.440 comes to political commentary those like um i'm going to listen to oran mcintyre um yep uh way

01:09:30.220 way before i listen to owen strand right um in in terms of politics yep if i'm listening to you

01:09:36.560 know justification by faith um i i would pick owen strand right over oran mcintyre um but if

01:09:43.060 we're talking about um what needs to happen uh with our nation um one of those guys understands

01:09:49.700 uh the kingdom in terms of hands and feet a lot a lot better than the other so um on the right

01:09:56.300 as it pertains exclusively to pastors ministers of the gospel in the sphere of the church uh yeah

01:10:01.480 sadly there are a lot of conservative pastors who want the king but don't want the kingdom and

01:10:06.500 that's why they are virtue signaling um and counter signaling against christian nationalism

01:10:11.180 and have been doing so for the last two years right uh that every time you see that that's that

01:10:16.140 Chandler's right. That's how you should read it. They're saying, we like King Jesus reigning

01:10:21.120 etherely in the 17th dimension without a tangible kingdom here. That kingdom will not come

01:10:28.760 until we get finished ruining the world. The world is just going to be ruined. Christians can't do a

01:10:35.660 dang thing about it, and then eventually we'll get the kingdom. So that is true of pastors, 1.00

01:10:41.240 Not the right politically, not the right culturally, but a lot of conservative pastors on the right, they like the king, they don't like the kingdom.

01:10:49.320 But to say that the left likes the kingdom and simply just doesn't like the king, and Chandler, for him to say, whoo, that's good, you need to step down out of ministry. 0.97

01:11:01.800 the left drinks baby's blood the left cuts off children's genitals the left tries to shoot

01:11:14.360 presidents former presidents in the face at rallies the the left likes the kingdom 0.99

01:11:21.500 the left likes the king what what in the world this is the bullcrap that has been going on for

01:11:28.140 the past for decades now for decades this uh third way oh you know over here you have such and such

01:11:36.460 and over here you have such but jesus is right there in the middle no he's not jesus is not in

01:11:43.080 the middle of the gop and the dnc he's not has the gop compromised immensely yes will jesus judge

01:11:51.180 the GOP if it doesn't repent? Yes. Is there an argument for Christians based off of the word

01:11:58.240 of God and conscience to say they've gone so far that this election, I just simply can't vote for 1.00

01:12:03.200 them? Is that permissible? Yes. Do I think it's wise? No. But is that permissible? I'm not going

01:12:08.660 to call that sin. Yes. That's how serious it is. But even this GOP today in 2024, with all the

01:12:16.740 concessions on life with all the concessions on on lgbt uh this gop is still you don't understand

01:12:27.160 you christians are they're getting the sense of how bad the republicans have compromised

01:12:32.720 but they still don't know how bad the left is you don't know how many death threats i personally get 0.98

01:12:39.900 from crazy leftist and when i say crazy leftist i mean your average leftist 0.89

01:12:46.000 you you don't understand brother sister you've got to know what time it is um this is not we

01:12:54.400 don't have the opportunity or the luxury of a civil conversation between two different parties

01:12:59.220 that disagree but there's still this common you know denominator of civility and mutual respect 0.99

01:13:04.640 the left want to destroy our way of life they want you dead they want your children dead they

01:13:11.820 want you bankrupt they want everything you have to be forcibly by gunpoint through legislation

01:13:17.500 that if you resist eventually you'll wind up in jail they want to take all of your money and give

01:13:23.100 it to people who don't work they want to put 70 something year old grandmas who are sick into

01:13:29.960 prison for two years because they prayed outside of an abortion clinic we are not talking look the

01:13:36.580 gop if you want to understand the two parties here's the description one party is terrible men

01:13:42.660 that's the gop the other party are are those who were once men but of now long lost their souls 0.74

01:13:51.840 and are not men at all they are wraiths they are they are orcs they are they're not human they're

01:13:59.100 demons there is so the idea of this oh third way you know you got this over here and that over

01:14:05.120 because this is what that implies it's crafty it's tricky and i hate it because it's deceitful

01:14:10.540 it lies to congregants and pews pastors like tim keller and matt chandler lying what they're

01:14:16.060 essentially implying this is what they're trying to do they're trying to trick you they're trying

01:14:19.600 to say here's democrats here's republicans and jesus is neither that's true that's true but

01:14:25.980 what they're trying to communicate in saying that is that there is an equal distance from the GOP

01:14:31.460 to Christ as there is from the DNC to Christ. They're trying to say both are bad. Christ is

01:14:38.020 neither. But then what they're subtly communicating is this. They're saying they're equally bad. They

01:14:43.180 are not equally bad. And that's why the GOP is bad enough to where I will not say it's a sin

01:14:49.700 for someone not to vote, a Christian not to vote for Trump. But the difference between the GOP and

01:14:55.080 the dnc is still so great that it also should not be said by other brothers in christ that that

01:15:01.380 someone like like us are in sin for saying we're going to vote for trump we would like to see our

01:15:06.700 wives and children live a little longer and there is a note of noticeable difference right there is

01:15:12.260 a noticeable difference and that's not saying uh because uh the compromise is is small and and you

01:15:18.680 know and the gop still really you know they're really for life no they're not they're not that's

01:15:22.880 not my point they're not the compromise is great and democrats are demons right it's helpful to

01:15:30.140 think too in a lot of other countries especially in europe you don't have uh partisan bipartisan

01:15:34.660 so it's two major parties it would be helpful more so and i know the language you're using

01:15:39.540 to almost think of the republican party as a coalition of really a couple different groups

01:15:44.180 you have neocons paleo conservatives some classical liberals on different spectrums of

01:15:49.080 what could be called the overton window so dusty deavers and mitt romney i don't even know if he's

01:15:54.560 still involved in politics both caucus under the broad banner he's still alive at the rnc which i

01:16:01.200 take that as encouragement exactly things are me nature is healing yeah right yeah yeah um but the

01:16:07.280 point is it's this massive umbrella that brings together different groups for the purpose of

01:16:11.980 sharing funds fundraising election support political action etc so in other countries

01:16:17.220 sometimes there can be five six seven eight different parties and what they'll do is they'll

01:16:21.440 kind of get like a collection of different seats and they'll actually compromise so the fringe group

01:16:25.480 will then make compromises with those closer to the center right in order in order to enact part

01:16:30.780 of their agenda part of their what they campaigned on so when you think partisan don't think of the

01:16:36.100 gop and don't even think of democrats as a monolith tulsi gabbard bernie sanders they both campaigned

01:16:41.440 as well under the the same caucus the same banner uh it's it's it's a large banner under which

01:16:46.220 different groups operate there are terrible groups but by god there's some good guys in the

01:16:51.340 gop too i named dusty deavers thomas massey like think about that jd vance like could um like

01:16:57.480 dusty deavers is a republican he's not third party right he's not third party because he actually

01:17:03.460 wanted to win right because he wanted to win right exactly because he's yeah he's not a beautiful

01:17:08.280 loser god bless dusty and so yeah so dusty wanted to win so he ran um a campaign with a party that

01:17:15.940 actually can win and uh but but think about that for a second um is there any dusty deavers 0.88

01:17:22.620 uh at any county level city level state level federal level uh with democrats i'll start

01:17:32.040 looking today yeah and and you will be looking the rest of your life yeah like the answer is no

01:17:37.080 and so that's what we're not saying that um that that that uh the gop that everybody in it is great

01:17:44.300 of course they're not but um but there is still an opportunity there for someone like dusty devers

01:17:51.080 an abolitionist who wants to completely abolish abortion only present just bills uh that make it

01:17:58.700 illegal for ivf make it illegal for uh the hormonal birth control pill that make it illegal for all

01:18:05.020 these different things uh dusty devers um is a gop senator state senator in the state of oklahoma

01:18:13.480 the gop is not defined by that but it still has some room for that yep the the democrat party has

01:18:22.000 no room right whatsoever so anyways all that being said um that the idea that uh the left

01:18:29.620 wants the kingdom but not the king yeah right the left wants the the left wants the kingdom of mal

01:18:36.700 They want, the left wants, the left's solution for some people being poor is to make everyone poor.

01:18:48.160 The left doesn't want the kingdom of Christ.

01:18:51.240 The left wants the kingdom, so the left hates, I like half of what Chandler said there.

01:18:57.000 Like the right, again talking about conservative pastors, they like the king but they don't like the kingdom.

01:19:03.000 Yeah, that's your conservative pastor who teaches the Bible faithfully

01:19:08.200 but has spent the last two years counter-signaling Christian nationalists on Twitter.

01:19:13.520 Chandler nailed that guy. 0.95

01:19:14.740 He's right about that guy.

01:19:16.000 He loves the king, but he doesn't like the kingdom.

01:19:19.580 But then when Chandler says that the left likes the kingdom but not the king,

01:19:23.160 no, the left hates the kingdom and the king.

01:19:26.540 And so what does that mean?

01:19:28.420 Both are a little bit wrong, but they are not equally wrong.

01:19:32.420 And so when you have a paradigm of one of these two things is going to happen,

01:19:37.300 one of them will happen.

01:19:39.120 If you vote third party to say, well, I don't choose either option.

01:19:44.700 I choose neither.

01:19:47.920 One of these two options is still going to happen.

01:19:51.080 One of these is still going to happen.

01:19:52.380 So then the question is, is one of them going to bring the wrath of God slower,

01:20:00.080 a little bit slower?

01:20:02.300 I think so.

01:20:03.160 We need time, and the adults will be back in charge soon.

01:20:05.980 I mean, J.D. Vance, he's not perfect.

01:20:08.620 He's one of our guys, and he's young.

01:20:10.700 We can take this thing over.

01:20:12.580 We've talked about this book a lot, but the return of the strong gods.

01:20:15.200 What you saw on stage, all those different religions and nationalities and cultures,

01:20:20.120 those are going to go away pretty quickly once you have the return of the strong gods.

01:20:23.680 Those are weak things that almost only exist in the vacuum of strong leadership.

01:20:28.260 Multiculturalism and diversity. 1.00

01:20:29.920 Once real men get in charge and actually start pulling the reins,

01:20:33.420 you would be surprised at how fast things can change.

01:20:35.920 Now, by God's grace, he's the one that needs to enable that to happen,

01:20:39.340 and good men need to put in the work to do it.

01:20:41.420 But don't be shocked if things from one RNC to the next,

01:20:45.800 wow, what happened?

01:20:47.140 Well, some adults got back in charge and said,

01:20:49.100 yeah, we're cleaning house. 0.97

01:20:50.220 This is silly. 0.99

01:20:51.040 This is ridiculous. 1.00

01:20:52.180 The base hastes it. 0.97

01:20:52.960 It doesn't represent our voters, and we're not doing it anymore.

01:20:56.460 Yeah.

01:20:56.720 Yeah.

01:20:56.820 do you want to land the plane now or do a commercial and then land the plane

01:21:00.980 yeah let's let's do a commercial and then i've got like a couple more things okay all right

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01:23:21.260 From time to time, a favorite pastime of mine is to address stupid comments. So this one goes out 1.00

01:23:27.920 to you, Aaron. You said that my language was unbiblical for saying that Democrats are demons,

01:23:35.200 that that's a denial of the Imago Dei, that they're human beings made in the image of God.

01:23:39.920 Here's Paul. We've got Titus chapter 1 verse 12. One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said 0.83

01:23:46.280 Cretans are always liars, but not just lying human beings, evil beasts and lazy gluttons, 1.00

01:23:53.260 animals. This testimony, Paul says now, is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply that they may be 1.00

01:24:00.560 sound in the faith um yeah in the technical literal sense of course all people even democrats

01:24:08.600 are human beings made in the image of god um but you are allowed to use language right like saying

01:24:15.420 that these people have lost their souls they're like orcs now um and how do i know that because

01:24:22.360 of the bible buddy isn't that neat all right so um what do we want to end with here i i kind of

01:24:30.760 i don't know i kind of want i are you are you guys you don't have to but you don't have to

01:24:37.720 say it on air you can say i declined to comment i can neither confirm nor deny but are both of

01:24:41.920 you voting for trump yeah absolutely i believe the 19th amendment should be repealed i'm voting

01:24:48.200 for trump twice and yet my wife and i are both going to be voting for trump i get two votes for

01:24:53.140 trump no nose unplugged sleeping like babies because of my wife clear conscience um i'm just

01:24:59.260 just right here at the end we don't have to spend a lot of time but just to pick you guys

01:25:02.540 your brains for a moment um my understanding my position is i would say um that the abolitionist

01:25:12.800 position is that abortion it can't just be mitigated or subdued or limited it must be 0.58

01:25:18.200 abolished uh in order to abolish abortion justly equal weights and measures right by what standard

01:25:24.120 god's standard um abortion is the murder of a human being and the child in the womb is not of

01:25:31.620 a lesser value than the child who's been born um this if we're going to affirm um the same

01:25:38.800 dignity the full dignity of the unborn child they're not part of a human being they are a

01:25:44.100 full human being made in the image of god so they have full dignity then they need full protections

01:25:48.840 and in order to have full protections so it's not open season hunting season on one class of people

01:25:55.080 namely the unborn then you need to have equal protections you must have equal penalties so

01:26:00.080 whatever the penalty would be for murdering a two-year-old in a back alley that should be the

01:26:05.060 penalty for murdering the unborn. And then from the biblical perspective, we would say that the 0.70

01:26:09.660 Noahic covenant, that a lot of biblical case law holds out capital punishment as a maximum penalty

01:26:15.980 that doesn't have to be applied. But in the case of murder and abortion being murder, that capital

01:26:21.560 punishment is not just the maximum penalty, it is the penalty. Noahic covenant. You mean actual

01:26:27.000 murder, not a manslaughter or not a... Right, actual premeditated. Yes. There was manslaughter

01:26:31.860 where you could flee to a city of refuge the the manslayer um yes an accident that that would be

01:26:39.020 different but premeditated abortion is not an accident and so um so we need equal protections

01:26:44.520 abortion needs to be treated as a homicide it needs to merit the death penalty for all involved

01:26:50.760 the second victim narrative i believe is a narrative from the pit of hell that the woman 0.56

01:26:56.080 is not a victim and that a country can only do one of two things but you can't do both

01:27:00.020 you can worship women or you can save babies and we've got to stop worshiping women and treating

01:27:05.520 them as though they're the sinless sex right um so you got all that then when it comes to

01:27:11.500 abolishing it at the level of local politics and at a state level and federal level um in terms of

01:27:16.960 presenting bills they must be equal weights and measures just bills so you cannot present dusty

01:27:23.040 deevers cannot present a bill for the abolishing of abortion that says um you can murder on wednesday

01:27:29.020 but you can't on thursday aka heartbeat bills right so it actually needs to be just bills

01:27:34.360 so everything i've just espoused that's the only kind of bills that you can present

01:27:38.440 just bills um and then that's with legislation now at the level of legislators elected officials

01:27:45.320 um certainly at the local level and i think also at the even at the federal level it's a little

01:27:51.360 different but i'll make my argument um in terms of primaries in terms of campaigning and putting

01:27:57.060 forward a politician. Christians should be putting forward in the same way that if you're going to

01:28:03.980 present a bill, it has to meet the standards of justice in God's word. If you're going to put

01:28:08.520 forward a candidate, they need to meet the standards in God's word. And I actually would

01:28:13.480 adhere to Deuteronomy chapter 18. It needs to be a guy who hates bribes, who loves justice,

01:28:21.820 who doesn't rob from the poor and a guy who doesn't steal people's lives you need to be

01:28:28.080 putting forward candidates at the local level and at the state level and i think even at the

01:28:33.000 federal level in terms of putting forward candidates in the primaries when that takes

01:28:37.760 place you need to be putting forward the best guys so right there so far i think just about

01:28:46.180 every abolitionist would agree with me now what if it's at the federal level it's at the

01:28:52.080 presidential level a presidential federal election and the primaries are over and it's now a general

01:28:58.080 election and there's only two guys left at that point can you vote for the guy who would kill

01:29:05.240 less babies and uh and that's where that uh there are not all but there are um a good bit of

01:29:12.200 abolitionists who would say no um so everything that you've just espoused and the only reason

01:29:17.660 i'm bringing it up here at the end is just to say they say everything that you just espoused

01:29:21.320 uh yeah we like that we like it we like it we like it we like it and then they would say

01:29:25.540 you're not an abolitionist um and i i'm just curious do you guys think that uh that the

01:29:33.000 abolitionist position necessitates um a pissing in the wind vote in a general presidential election

01:29:41.460 does it necessitate uh helping biden i don't think it does and the reason is

01:29:47.920 as you said the votes on apple on on specific bills um are different than voting on a president

01:29:56.460 who is going to enact a lot of different policies and if if trump was saying i want to pass laws

01:30:07.560 nationally that preserve a woman's access to abortion that's a little bit different

01:30:15.820 what trump has said is i appointed justices that got rid of roe versus wade you guys go do the work

01:30:22.760 at your own states okay now i would like trump to say this should be a national issue it's

01:30:30.340 completely baffling to have murder be allowed in one state but not in another state that's not a

01:30:35.000 viable option for a nation right the dobbs decision i agree with abolitionists that and

01:30:39.640 that it's an unjust decision they should have said right then the 14th amendment applies to

01:30:44.520 the unborn kicking it back to the states was better um than nationally saying you you know

01:30:49.740 you can't ban abortion at all um but but no it was still unjust it wasn't meeting god's standards

01:30:56.080 they should have said uh because because the federal government has done that before with

01:31:00.000 with marijuana yep like colorado says uh we're potheads we're weed boys you know and uh and the

01:31:05.620 nation doesn't say well we don't want to get involved it belongs to the states no at the

01:31:08.820 federal level they said no quit being a weed boy and uh colorado you know says no we want to be 0.82

01:31:15.100 weed boys and they and they just kind of have a conflict federal government said you gay and left

01:31:20.120 at that so like clarence thomas super grateful for him but they could have they the supreme court 0.83

01:31:25.320 could have gone further and said no no no you you cannot murder babies in any state in the union

01:31:30.800 what do you think um though about you know the vote for trump does the abolitionist position

01:31:35.860 necessitate in this current election given given what we've got trump and biden does it necessitate

01:31:43.340 um a wasted vote no um i'm partial to i know people don't like him but carl schmidt and the

01:31:49.980 concept of the political where he just says the distinction in the political is friend enemy

01:31:53.520 and the goal in politics for the politician,

01:31:56.000 but then for the voter who plays a minority role

01:31:58.200 in the political system is to protect friend,

01:32:01.840 which would be your way of life.

01:32:02.960 It'd be your family, it'd be your community,

01:32:04.640 your tribe, your church, ultimately your nation.

01:32:07.120 Protect your friend and punish your enemy.

01:32:09.400 So in, for example, the realm of ethics,

01:32:11.620 the ultimate distinction is good, bad.

01:32:13.960 So politics, Schmidt just says,

01:32:15.520 the final distinction is friend and enemy.

01:32:17.700 And so I look at politics in some sense.

01:32:19.780 All right, I have a limited participation.

01:32:21.200 my vote can count in this tiny incremental amount towards this individual. And the paradigm I base

01:32:26.640 it on, also along with the moral considerations, is friend-enemy, who will best protect my way of

01:32:31.200 life and who will also punish my enemy, will sanction them, will kick them out, will get them

01:32:37.280 out of the government. And so applying that paradigm, completely agreeing. I completely

01:32:42.280 agree with the abolitionist position. We do not allow murder simply because the baby's a little

01:32:46.560 bit younger or because it's on Tuesday. I completely agree with all of that. But when

01:32:50.660 it comes to my small part i play in the political system rewarding friends punishing enemies is the

01:32:55.940 paradigm i go by and therefore uh at least at this current moment the clear winner is is obvious

01:33:02.420 biden has set the doj on christian families christian grandmothers uh so one of them and

01:33:09.000 some abolitionists i've talked to them and they'll bring up well trump punished these friends and he

01:33:12.740 and he campaigned and primaried these good guys and that is true and i can't deny it uh so it's

01:33:18.320 not as though trump is perfect on the rewarding friends axis he's not so we dropped down a little

01:33:22.660 bit there but on enemies i mean lord give me the the trump my enemies fear he's going to be a terror

01:33:29.060 to my enemies and so even if he was not going to reward any of my friends but he was going to

01:33:33.660 punish the wicked and punish my enemies in a political sense even still i think a christian

01:33:37.840 then could make the case it is permissible not required but permissible to vote for him so i'm

01:33:42.720 going to vote for him i'm going to have my head held high and i think because again we got to use

01:33:46.720 categories the political category is not the church category it's not the family category

01:33:50.660 and it's not there is some overlap it's not the moral category either it's a way of life a way

01:33:56.280 of being being protected and repelling maybe not even morally bad people but those that would come

01:34:02.460 in and disrupt and destroy my way of life well the other thing and this is not my idea this has

01:34:07.040 been floating around social media and john harris had a great post today about it um but that the

01:34:12.220 The Trump GOP is continuing in the legacy of the Buchanan populism, which was killed when George H.W. Bush was elected.

01:34:21.840 And that was the faux moral majority conservatism.

01:34:26.900 And, you know, I don't know.

01:34:29.960 We'll see what happens over time.

01:34:31.220 But Trump is is much more open to populism than the GOP was up to this point.

01:34:36.500 And the GOP has promised work on life, work on life.

01:34:40.160 We're going to be pro-life.

01:34:41.020 And they have done absolutely nothing, literally nothing.

01:34:44.340 And I have to think that a president who will appoint and listen to people who love the nation, who are populist and who are not just establishment, who are just going to preserve the RNC and the GOP at all costs, has a better chance of getting some godly conservative people in there with the voice of the people behind them, with a populist movement and having sway.

01:35:06.600 and don't be surprised if guys like vance if they have to give an answer like the the election of

01:35:13.460 trump has been gift wrapped and handed on a silver platter and all you have to do is take that platter

01:35:18.580 to go to the bank and deposit the gift don't be surprised if in order to not fumble it along the

01:35:22.900 way they say things that they may not truly believe should we be clear in our speech yes

01:35:27.080 but but they want to win and they realize some of them uh may say things that once they get in

01:35:32.120 office like yeah i said that but my views are a little bit more extreme we have been

01:35:36.200 gif-wrapped the election. Let's vouchsafe it to the bank here in five months and then apply

01:35:42.360 level 10 pressure on our representatives, on newly elected senators, on our president,

01:35:48.040 on his cabinet, on his administration to enact the most right-wing, hardcore, conservative agenda.

01:35:54.700 We need to make 2025 look like the moderate, lightweight position. That's right. We need to

01:35:58.960 have liberals begging for 2025 back. Please only go so far as the Heritage Foundation is Project

01:36:04.380 2025 don't do what you're about to do and uh we shouldn't have mercy then by god's grace we'll get

01:36:10.320 to enact all of it and uh and then build on that so that's four years building the next four and uh

01:36:15.920 by god's grace if he blesses it there could be a real change that our kids will see and enjoy the

01:36:21.000 benefits of amen yeah um i've given a lot of thought um over the past year with the deuteronomy

01:36:28.960 18 thing because i've got a lot of friends that are theonomists and so that's their that's their

01:36:33.120 go-to text uh that's where jethro you know gives his counsel the father-in-law to moses about

01:36:37.640 you know um and and it's not just you know it's his counsel but in the providence of god it's god's

01:36:42.560 standard um for um assigning leaders this is where moses is overrun by all the needs in the

01:36:48.420 among the people and who knows how many there are at the time but maybe there's a million you know

01:36:52.300 two million israelites in the wilderness and his father-in-law says dude you can't you can't do

01:36:57.280 this anymore you can't uh sit here you know and um resolve every conflict for everyone in all of

01:37:02.700 Israel, you need to appoint leaders. You got to get guys over tens and fifties and hundreds and

01:37:07.640 thousands. Tens, fifties, hundreds, and thousands. And then God speaks through Jethro and gives

01:37:14.180 his immutable standard of this is what leaders should look like. These are the standards that

01:37:21.980 they should meet. And, you know, I did, I was having this conversation about this and I go

01:37:27.160 into much more depth in another video that will release next week, but with Ben Garrett from

01:37:32.040 Ogden, but pairing that up, Deuteronomy 18, and in principle, like in terms of the system,

01:37:38.100 very similar to Acts chapter 6, where they're looking to fill the diaconate, where you have

01:37:44.460 the apostles and saying, we need seven men filled with the Holy Spirit. That's where you get Stephen

01:37:48.600 and Philip. But in both scenarios, it seems, now it's more obvious in Acts 6, less obvious in

01:37:54.940 deuteronomy 18 but it seems as though um like moses may not single-handedly personally himself

01:38:02.180 appoint it's exodus 18 you said exodus i know you know that it's exodus but you said deuteronomy

01:38:06.640 twice no no no no no no no what it read it can you read it real quick um i think it's deuteronomy

01:38:13.180 no deuteronomy i think it's i think it's destroying nations for idolatry and witchcraft

01:38:17.680 oh okay oh that'll preach too that's a good one you can you read it though real quick because

01:38:23.060 It's still helpful.

01:38:29.200 Now let me give you, this is a terrible translation.

01:38:31.980 I'm going to give you some good advice.

01:38:33.260 God will be with you.

01:38:34.020 It is right for you to represent the people before God and bring their disputes to him.

01:38:38.560 You should teach them God's commands, explain to them how they should live and what they should do.

01:38:42.960 But in addition, you should choose capable men.

01:38:44.720 Appoint them as leaders of the people, leaders of thousands, hundreds, fifties, tens.

01:38:48.160 They must be God-fearing men who can be trusted, cannot be bribed,

01:38:50.920 let them serve as judges of the people on a permanent basis they can bring all the difficult

01:38:56.200 cases to you let but they themselves can decide all the smaller disputes uh that that will make

01:39:02.040 it easier for you as they share your burden if you do this as god commands you will that's where

01:39:06.800 you're saying this was the command of god you will not wear yourself out and all these people

01:39:10.260 can go home with their disputes settled great so it sounds like you thank you the message

01:39:14.520 translation i don't know yeah it's terrible which one came out exodus 18 um you know guys have to

01:39:21.960 meet a certain standard over tens fifties hundreds thousands and i i've read you know different

01:39:27.820 biblical scholars who you know estimated you know historians that like i don't know if you guys feel

01:39:33.000 free to disagree with me but i've been under the impression that there was probably about a million

01:39:37.140 plus one to two million israelites at the time yeah so even if it's just a million a million

01:39:42.220 divided by 10 because the lowest level level of leaders is you got to have a guy over every 10

01:39:46.880 um and this would be 10 households right right right 10 families so 10 you know maybe that

01:39:52.840 represents if the average household maybe it's five maybe it's you know maybe it's eight maybe

01:39:57.200 you know whatever but probably like you know 50 people if there's a million people the point is

01:40:01.240 this that's a lot of leaders it's a lot of leaders um i don't think that moses is single-handedly um

01:40:08.400 meeting all the people all the men in israel at the time which easily could have you know it could

01:40:14.580 have been five hundred thousand you know heads of households i don't think he's meeting with all of

01:40:20.300 them and and doing interviews and making sure that they so so then who's bringing these guys

01:40:26.200 to moses it's the people right like the people and and i think that's the same kind of system

01:40:31.980 very similar of what you see in acts chapter seven or acts chapter six rather where we need

01:40:37.240 seven men so the apostles what they do is they set the guidelines they say how many men seven

01:40:42.300 what kind of men these qualifications for what role what task you know to help the the widow

01:40:48.040 this dispute between the hellenistic jews and the hebraic jews over widows and being overlooked in

01:40:53.200 the daily distribution so the apostles set the parameters but the people that is in this case

01:40:58.480 the congregation the church at jerusalem they're the ones who then uh go and identify and select

01:41:03.640 these seven men and the apostles then i think it's assumed by way of implication we can assume

01:41:08.840 this it's not explicit in the text but it's a safe implied truth um the people are finding the

01:41:15.180 seven men the apostles have the final vetoing power over those seven men so the people bring

01:41:20.860 seven deadbeats the apostles can say no yeah yeah um but here's the deal if the apostles say no

01:41:26.820 to all seven how many deacons will you have zero um that's and that's the same thing going on in

01:41:35.460 exodus 18 the people moses is not going to hold interviews with thousands and thousands of men

01:41:41.180 to a point because again the lowest common denominator is over tens and there's a million

01:41:46.320 to two million people in israel so it's the people the church is going to bring these these deacon

01:41:52.000 candidates to the apostles and it's israel the congregation of israel that's going to bring these

01:41:57.660 heads of households who are going to be over at tens and fifties and hundreds and thousands to

01:42:02.080 moses and then it's moses who has the video vetoing power final say and it's the apostles

01:42:07.860 over here that have the view that is this is what i want christians to get that is the exact opposite

01:42:12.580 of our system right that's the exact opposite of our system um our system is the regime ultimately

01:42:20.600 ultimately yes we get to primary a couple presidential candidates at the local level

01:42:26.020 the people actually get to go and find uh at the local only how many states actually matter in the

01:42:31.740 primary i mean it never even gets to texas but i'm saying like a local election so aside from

01:42:36.840 presidential and local elections and counties and things like that in states primaries the people

01:42:41.420 actually get to do uh exodus 18 and acts chapter uh six we actually get to do that we actually get

01:42:47.900 to go and find a Dusty Devers and get behind him and bring Dusty Devers all the way to the

01:42:55.420 vetoing power. And the vetoing power in that case, with a state senator in an election,

01:43:01.120 the vetoing power is not Moses and it's not the apostles. It would actually be the whole state

01:43:06.460 in a general election once it gets there, once it gets to that point. But we actually get to

01:43:10.920 bring them. When it comes to a presidential federal election, that's not our system.

01:43:17.400 our system is that the regime it would actually be like the exact opposite it would be like

01:43:22.620 instead of the people bringing um uh the heads you know this these guys are over tens and these

01:43:27.660 guys were and then bringing them to moses the people selecting identifying bringing them to

01:43:31.960 moses to have the veto power it would be it'd be like the exact opposite it would be like moses

01:43:36.240 like some some few elite you know characters in this case not a righteous moses but very nefarious

01:43:42.100 and unethical characters a regime they actually bring us the selection and then here's here's the

01:43:47.860 final thing and they say look here are your choices for over tens fifties hundreds and

01:43:52.720 thousands um and you now the people you get the veto instead of the people bringing and moses

01:43:57.720 gets the veto the regime brings and the people get the veto but here's here's the way the veto

01:44:02.220 works if you say no to my choices i'll pick the worst one you'll still get heads over tens fifties

01:44:09.200 hundreds there will still be a president right your virtue vote will not stop us from putting

01:44:16.400 a man in the white house he will be there all we're giving you the only power you have is to

01:44:23.300 hold back a little of the tide of wickedness and then we say yeah no to make it even harder

01:44:31.560 it's a vote not a sacrament it's a vote not a sacrament yeah it's uh i think so i am a general

01:44:37.240 equity theonomist who would like to accurately apply the general equity of exodus 12 and acts

01:44:44.860 chapter 6 i think that it's being misapplied so if my theonomist you know brothers or an

01:44:49.860 abolitionist brother says but joel isn't this the standard if this was the standard to lead over

01:44:53.820 tens shouldn't this be the standard for elected officials in the united states as a christian

01:44:58.700 nationalist and i would say yes i love that that is a great application that's a good general equity

01:45:04.240 application to look at exodus 12 and say this is the standard and they would say because i'm

01:45:09.380 going to steel man their argument they would say uh notice it doesn't even require that they're

01:45:12.760 saved they didn't have to be regenerate and honestly they probably weren't because you'd

01:45:16.580 have to have at least 10 of the men in israel being regenerate which i don't know if they

01:45:20.200 they would have hit that those markers you know because they pretty much all died out in unbelief

01:45:24.740 you know so so you probably had a lot of guys serving over tens even at the lowest one

01:45:29.300 and some of them literally are currently in hell they weren't even saved yeah but guess what the

01:45:35.420 standard that god gave through jethro to moses uh saved wasn't part of the standard so you could

01:45:41.140 have and and so again steel manning my brothers in christ uh my theonomous friends they would say

01:45:46.360 um they say joey we're not even saying that uh that that trump can't be elected because we're

01:45:51.340 not sure if he's regenerate or this that's not the standard the standard though is just he has

01:45:55.460 to hate injustice he has to hate a bribe and he has to care um about uh the helpless and and not

01:46:01.860 let them be overrun and killed and and the unborn are helpless and he's not doing that uh he's

01:46:06.940 retracted uh he's gone back on it and and and so i understand so i would say uh that the exodus 18

01:46:13.240 standard i would say yes i do agree that that is god's standard for elected officials over tens

01:46:19.320 and over thousands so from your local county sheriff all the way up to your president the

01:46:24.860 united states just like in israel it was the same standard for the tens all the way up to the

01:46:28.180 thousands um i'm with you i think that's some good application of the law of god um the problem

01:46:33.620 there's one problem that's a big one um that's the same standard uh but we don't have the same

01:46:41.520 system not even close not even close in the israel system over most under moses which was

01:46:49.520 monarchical it was did it have representative government yes but it had representative

01:46:55.060 government not in a democracy but a monarchy right it had moses it had moses so yes you have

01:47:01.400 represented leaders who can appeal your case before a monarch before moses was as god moses

01:47:08.480 wasn't even the prophet he was in a technical sense but aaron was actually meant to just to

01:47:13.440 convey the prophetic role uh aaron would speak for moses moses was to be as god to the people

01:47:19.240 There were extended periods of time where the people couldn't even look at his face without going blind.

01:47:25.180 I mean, Moses was—this was a monarchy, and a monarchy much like we have had in the near recent past in England.

01:47:34.500 It wasn't totalitarian, and it's not that it didn't have other elements, mechanisms within the government,

01:47:40.700 this monarchical government of representative government and officials and blah, blah, blah, and lords and this and that, and parliament.

01:47:46.460 like they're that kind of thing is going on in israel but the the bottom line is that um the

01:47:52.600 people get to bring the people the people are told by moses the standard god tells moses the

01:47:58.680 standard through jethro moses were meant to assume he tells the people the standard the people then

01:48:03.740 apply the standard follow the standard and bring all of their their uh candidates to for the final

01:48:11.020 veto to to moses and maybe maybe you know aaron's involved in that too is you know some

01:48:15.800 and and then they make the final decision that is not our system so yes i believe the standards

01:48:22.420 should be the same if we had a monarchy and i was king then every elected official would have to

01:48:28.100 meet the standard of exodus 18 100 but we don't have a monarchy we have a degeneracy a degenerate

01:48:35.060 democracy we don't even have a constitutional republic anymore we did we don't anymore we have

01:48:40.720 a degenerate mob rule mad max democracy that's what we have um and what that means is it and

01:48:49.460 we have that plus a kind of a hybrid of also a very degenerate um wicked oligarchy and so we have

01:48:58.260 uh the the regime not the people bringing the candidates to moses but the regime brings the

01:49:04.040 candidates to the people and uh and the regime says moses had here's the deal moses we must

01:49:11.980 assume he had the authority under god that if they brought people and and moses thought that

01:49:17.640 they didn't meet the standard moses could just say no um the two guys that we've been brought

01:49:23.560 by the regime we don't get to say no well the other thing is we don't get to say one of them

01:49:29.180 will be moses may have also said like like baked into that the safeguard in jethro's advice is

01:49:36.100 that man that you're nominating he will be deciding between you and your neighbor

01:49:40.300 they have to live under that man's right judgment and so you better be careful who you're picking

01:49:48.300 not just bringing some flippant you know charlatan to moses for approval right right yeah so i i would

01:49:56.920 say uh yeah it it should be the same standard but we are not living in the same system not even

01:50:02.620 close um we we the people do not get to bring um our potential leaders uh to moses uh instead

01:50:13.200 a wicked oligarchy moses brings those potential leaders to us um at least at the federal

01:50:20.020 presidential level that's not necessarily true primaries is your chance to bring your best

01:50:25.120 this is one of the reasons by the regime dark money pours in and crushes the grassroots but

01:50:30.240 that's still your chance that's your chance to do it this is one of the reasons but once that chance

01:50:34.840 ends did not want political parties yeah right it eliminates the ability of people to really put

01:50:41.420 forward a candidate that they would want right yep that's a great point so yeah i would say

01:50:45.680 moving farther back aristotle and democracy yeah well yes the primary the primaries is your chance

01:50:51.500 that that is your chance um we are not in the primaries you know i was not um i mean some

01:50:57.200 people you know they're never trumpers they're also always trumpers you know maggot um there

01:51:01.980 were plenty of guys who you know were out very outspoken against the santas during the primaries 0.87

01:51:07.860 and saying this is terrible you know it's insufferable shut up uh trump trump trump you

01:51:14.120 know and i'm talking about like christian leaders right um i did not pick a side on that i was 0.73

01:51:18.440 pretty quiet pretty quiet um i didn't i didn't hop on the desantis train you know just publicly

01:51:24.620 saying yeah desantis but but i also uh was certainly not counter-signaling him um and

01:51:30.660 saying trump no matter what it's trump's party you know like i wasn't doing that either um i have

01:51:35.260 only really been outspoken about the presidential election once it came down to a clear choice yeah

01:51:41.280 the primaries are done uh halloween's over it's time to take off the costume yeah you know and

01:51:47.760 get dressed and go to work and be a big boy it's uh it is um uh evil men are demons and i understand

01:51:55.880 and it's like well in that scenario i choose neither um uh well i i disagree with you i

01:52:03.680 would bet you'll be relieved when you wake up that november morning oh trump is president

01:52:07.940 that's the thing joseph spurgeon i appreciated his humility he's a guy who's for eight years said

01:52:15.240 yeah i hold the abolitionist uh position this is literally the posterity of charles spurgeon

01:52:19.960 you know the uh the physiognomy goes hard you know so he's got spurgeon's blood through his

01:52:24.840 veins and uh shocker he's uh he's on the mark but um yeah he came out a couple days ago and he said 0.97

01:52:31.160 i'm voting for trump and he said the reason why is because i'm tired of being a hypocrite

01:52:35.880 um in in my uh pretended virtue um according to my standard i wouldn't vote for trump

01:52:42.760 but then when he was elected in 2016 i was wildly relieved and i felt guilty

01:52:49.620 being incredibly relieved by something that uh that i i couldn't take any credit for um i 0.62

01:52:57.140 i gave it to all those dirty blue collar yeah uh unsophisticated untheological you know 0.83

01:53:05.160 compromising christians i put my family safety in their hands because i was too good 0.86

01:53:12.280 to dirty myself and actually trying to help the country and help my family and help our future 0.64

01:53:19.440 um so i left it to the the peons the dirty compromised you know people without standards

01:53:26.520 and he said no more yeah i'm still an abolitionist equal weights and measures but in a federal

01:53:32.380 presidential election after the primaries at the point of the general election i do think that we

01:53:39.780 can pick the best of the two choices for the good of our family it will be one of the two choices

01:53:46.700 i think we can pick the best of you and i that would be my question i think to my abolitionist

01:53:51.340 brothers you know ending this with a question is are you going to make that a part of the

01:53:57.040 abolitionist stance right and the abolitionist movement are you going to say um that um they

01:54:04.200 completely repudiating the second victim narrative is required with you equal weights and measures

01:54:10.120 equal protections is required with you just bills that are not incremental but full justice demanding

01:54:16.620 the book is required with you primary candidates not just legislation but legislators who are just

01:54:23.280 and who also hold and meet this this excess 18 standard um is required with you and and you're

01:54:29.900 going to you're going to hold all that and have guys who are with you and have been publicly

01:54:35.560 saying these things singing your praises right um offering to uh help financially support your

01:54:42.180 ministries behind the scenes and and you're going to hold to all that and then say nope there's a

01:54:49.700 one more irrefutable uh undebatable tenant of the abolitionist position and it is that uh we are so

01:54:59.420 particular and what it means to be an abolitionist that it actually involves all the way down to

01:55:05.020 voting in a general presidential election um and when it comes to that um you must if it's uh if

01:55:13.940 it's this current gop and the dnc you must if you're an abolitionist you must piss in the wind

01:55:19.980 um i just i'm not in charge it's not my movement i like the movement i'm rooting for them

01:55:29.780 i have called myself an abolitionist still call myself an abolitionist still hold all the

01:55:34.740 convictions that but uh yeah if if me voting for trump knocks me out of the abolitionist club

01:55:42.680 and that's sad they're still my brothers in christ still love them i hope after the election

01:55:47.060 that we can still be friends but yeah i guess i'm out of the club duty calls steve dace has said

01:55:52.860 that it's very hard for him to work with post-millennials because they have such a high

01:55:57.980 standard of ideological purity that none of them can ever get anything done

01:56:02.440 old school theonomists had that problem as well yeah yeah it's a bummer man uh you know what's a

01:56:09.240 bummer growing up leaving neverland i always say the peter pan thing and i think part of the reason

01:56:16.500 i say this because dude oh my goodness man i identify with peter pan i'm like i don't want

01:56:21.220 to leave never ever land i don't want to grow up right like i don't i gotta be careful but it's

01:56:27.260 it's painful like it's painful reading history and finding out oh crap yeah they were the bad guys

01:56:34.580 i thought they were the good guys you know like it's painful man it's painful like you know doing

01:56:40.760 the hard work of doctrinal study and reading the word of god and coming into convictions 1.00

01:56:45.320 and then realizing like oh no the puritans were kind of a little crappy 0.95

01:56:53.360 they weren't quite as great as i thought they were oh the abolitionists 0.96

01:56:59.520 versus the confederates like i mean like the left right now is like lincoln was gay and i'm like

01:57:07.200 i'm with you you know one of the few times me and the left agree you know and it's like oh and the 1.00

01:57:12.680 some of the abolitionists were useful idiots that ruined the nation we lost they were extremists 0.98

01:57:18.820 we lost state rights the federal regime was forged yeah like and i'm like no and i'm not i'm not i'm 0.99

01:57:28.700 not gloating about any of this i'm literally being honest i feel like peter pan i don't want to grow

01:57:32.520 up learning history hurts it hurts because you start realizing oh gosh my heroes are not quite

01:57:41.120 the heroes that i thought they were they actually kind of suck and uh i'm hoping that that will not

01:57:48.380 be true of today's abolitionist i'm hoping that we have a better breed yeah a better breed and 0.89

01:57:54.980 that individually there would be room for someone to say i'm sorry my conscience just will not let

01:57:59.060 me vote for trump and that's fine that's fine i'm not going to go and say that's sin it's not

01:58:03.120 but man i i hope that some of them will not vote for trump but will allow others to

01:58:10.340 but if man if the position is taken that the abolitionist position is uh that voting for

01:58:17.220 trump is sin and that a pastor who votes for trump publicly says that he's uh should step 0.99

01:58:24.320 out of ministry if that's the position then man you might be just as gay as lincoln 1.00

01:58:31.360 so 1.00

01:58:33.000 shout out also to Dabney

01:58:35.560 alright well thank you guys for tuning in

01:58:38.140 and we hope to see you again next time

01:58:39.780 God

The NXR Podcast - July 17, 2024

THE LIVESTREAM - Why Pastors Suck at Politics

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