The NXR Podcast - THE LIVESTREAM - Witchcraft or Trad-wife： Which Way, Western Woman？

00:00:00.000 gentlemen i regret to inform you women this week saw a controversy erupt over the temptations that

00:00:10.400 women face as some speakers sounded an alarm about the hidden dangers of the trad wife movement

00:00:16.080 is trad wife something that conservative christians need to be warned against at this time

00:00:21.480 no for there are forces that are targeting women that threaten to destroy not only women but all 0.91

00:00:28.120 of society. One such danger is the allure of witchcraft and the occult. In the last few 0.87

00:00:35.120 decades, these practices have risen dramatically, so dramatically, that a majority of Americans

00:00:41.300 and of Christians now believe in affirmed pagan practices. God hates witchcraft, not

00:00:47.420 homemaking. And women, left and right, are being lured into witchcraft as they recite 0.97

00:00:52.940 mantras by crystals and try to manifest a more positive reality this week we dive into the

00:01:00.380 dangers of modern witchcraft and ask the question what's more dangerous a lizard or a croc crocodile

00:01:07.160 or to put it another way what's more dangerous sourdough or pagan demons

00:01:14.480 all right welcome everybody we're really looking forward to today guys and diving into this topic

00:01:28.480 with you all the topic of the day is witchcraft and the occult but also we had a providential

00:01:36.320 connection to dangers for women and so we should say right at the outset that yes we are going to

00:01:41.780 be talking about the sins of women. It is true that men are pulled into this as well, and they

00:01:47.680 can and do affirm and buy into paganism and occult practices, New Age stuff, but statistically, 0.98

00:01:56.220 and even we know with the temptations of women, this is something that is a particular danger to 0.72

00:02:01.160 women and a particular, well, more women are falling into than men are. They're more vulnerable.

00:02:08.160 Yep. They are more vulnerable. Yeah. Yep. So we just want to be clear about that. And we have no qualms about talking about ways that men and women are different and ways that women sin differently than men. And so, yeah, we're definitely going into this with a perspective of warning, but also wanting to protect and care for women.

00:02:25.160 right yep so so the the topic today is witchcraft and i thought it would be good for us to start a

00:02:32.460 little bit just talking about what is witchcraft because i know when i started thinking about the

00:02:36.400 topic i thought of maybe salem witch trials and um the witch of endor or uh you know just kind of

00:02:44.120 vague unsure dark kind of woman with a uh with a warty nose and a big hat and brooms and things 0.94

00:02:52.360 like that. And so what I was really startled to find out is that witchcraft is real and current

00:03:00.200 and present and something that we should not just think is out there. It really is moving into the

00:03:06.040 homes of many, many people around America. So from some of the research I did, I came up with

00:03:15.300 this as a definition of witchcraft. I kind of compiled some ideas, and it's this. As far as

00:03:22.400 God permits, witchcraft is a learned practice whereby people use tools and incantations to

00:03:29.280 gain access to the spiritual realm in order to exercise supernatural powers that control or

00:03:36.520 influence people and events. And a couple things in there that I wanted to highlight. First of all,

00:03:42.200 William Perkins' book on witchcraft, he was a Puritan, he reminds us that even witchcraft is

00:03:48.240 under the divine providence of God in the same way that God limited what Satan could do when

00:03:53.600 he wanted to go after Job. Even here, it's still within the bounds of what God is allowing. No one

00:03:59.420 is getting outside of God's control, and he's like, oh no, what do we do? It's still within

00:04:04.460 God's providence, even though it's an abomination and a horrible sin.

00:04:08.800 And real quick, a word on that, at two different, you know, two different phases.

00:04:13.240 The first phase is you could basically do anything to Job, but you can't touch him.

00:04:18.760 And that allowed for Satan to even kill Job's children in the first phase.

00:04:24.340 And so, you know, Job is utterly depleted of all his resources.

00:04:28.140 You know, he's robbed and stolen from the Chaldeans and with camels and livestock and

00:04:32.880 all these different things, but also his children, they actually die because they're having a

00:04:37.740 party or some kind of celebration and job was known for you know even if he didn't know exactly

00:04:42.320 what his children were doing he didn't participate in these celebrations himself so the implication

00:04:46.220 from the text is that they were probably um either the pagan celebrations or or at least lewd um

00:04:52.640 morally speaking uh in terms of these celebrations and job after you know the next day when the kids

00:04:57.620 you know and these are grown kids when the kids are hung over you know and kneeling before the

00:05:01.160 porcelain throne uh you know job is uh making sacrifices and seeking to uh forgiveness and

00:05:07.060 atonement for the sins of his own children and taking responsibility um and i think if he's doing

00:05:11.820 that then we should also assume that he was also speaking with his children saying please no you

00:05:15.740 know please behave and please honor god fear god um so there's all that but in this first phase

00:05:20.920 satan is not allowed to touch job but he is allowed to take everything that job possesses

00:05:26.380 including not just camels but kids uh grown children and what satan does in this particular

00:05:31.440 scenario is he doesn't just fill the hearts of other men um as you know kind of uh you know like

00:05:37.400 thinking of uh causes you know first you know primary and secondary causes in this case it's

00:05:41.800 almost you know three causes the primary being God who is always the primary cause the unmoved

00:05:46.140 mover uh but then Satan God so God is um allowing Satan to do something then Satan being the second

00:05:51.980 cause then fills the hearts of the Chaldeans to steal um and and then uh but not only that in

00:05:57.240 the case of job's kids uh satan actually has power over the wind um he causes a great wind a storm

00:06:04.660 to cause the house to collapse and crush and kill job's children which is really interesting when

00:06:11.280 you think of like the disciples on the on the boat with jesus who is this who has you know who

00:06:15.280 commands the wind and waves and a lot of times um we think you know and and rightfully so we think

00:06:20.760 that this speaks to jesus divinity but there is something to be said i know it's a little wacky i

00:06:24.720 won't go into it, but the whole, you know, well, the divine counsel kind of thing, the Michael

00:06:29.820 Heiser perspective, uh, gods, lowercase g gods, uh, you know, and, and I think there is some merit

00:06:36.440 to that perspective. And, uh, I get into some of that in our upcoming, uh, season of the Friday

00:06:41.680 special with, with, um, Ben Garrett and Brian Sauve. But, um, but anyways, it's, uh, Satan

00:06:47.380 is a God of sorts. He's not a God who creates X in the helo. He's certainly not on anywhere close

00:06:53.940 comparable to Yahweh he's a created being so God is the only the triune God the only uncreated being

00:06:59.960 who creates ex nihilo but Satan is he's not he's not a trifle he's he's significant and he even has

00:07:07.860 supernatural divine authority over weather not just over people in inspiring and twisting their

00:07:15.420 hearts but over weather and and that makes Jesus walking on you know the water or calming the wind

00:07:21.680 and waves, I think it heightens that. Some would think that it would detract from the symbolism

00:07:28.540 of the divinity of Christ. But I think it heightens it because what that does to me, what it

00:07:34.520 paints the picture of the storm on the Sea of Galilee is it basically says that Jesus, it's not

00:07:39.560 that Jesus alone has this authority over the wind and waves. What it does is it actually indicates

00:07:44.760 that this is not an ordinary storm. And the disciples even take note of that. This is a

00:07:50.100 supernatural storm so there's already a god-like lowercase g god-like power uh causing these wind

00:07:56.300 and waves and so jesus doesn't just have authority over the wind and waves but he has also authority

00:08:00.220 over every spiritual uh being in the spiritual realm who are and so he you know one spirit satan

00:08:07.220 namely you know says wind and waves capsize the boat jesus says uh both to the wind and waves to

00:08:13.020 nature but also to satan to both he says cut it out and they have to cease or when jesus is walking

00:08:18.800 on water it's not just that um he is superior and exercising his lordship over nature uh but the sea

00:08:25.080 represents death you know revelation the sea would give up its dead like the sea is in a sense it's

00:08:31.340 representative of uh death of chaos of uh lifelessness and jesus is trampling treading on

00:08:38.040 death you know and so there's uh so that that view of satan having having authority over wind waves

00:08:44.920 weather, these kinds of things is, it's certainly in the Job narrative, it's certainly biblical,

00:08:49.580 and none of that detracts from God. You know, that God, we think, well, he exclusively has

00:08:56.040 that authority. No, he has given that authority to lesser, lowercase g, God-like beings, but he

00:09:03.080 has authority over all of it, including them. So anyway, side note. Yeah, so it's within God's

00:09:10.340 sovereign um will and authority it's a learned practice and what was really eye-opening not

00:09:16.260 eye-opening but helpful for me to start thinking about is that witchcraft is something where people

00:09:20.620 use tools or incantations so we're talking mantras that they say over and over or something they hold

00:09:29.580 a crystal or a stone or a chalice or it could even be a picture of my dead daughter or something

00:09:37.680 like that that they're holding and then they're using either those incantations or those sayings

00:09:44.020 or those objects or they just hang them maybe they don't hold them but they hang them up as a charm

00:09:48.660 of protection it's an object or an incantation that they're using to gain access to some sort

00:09:55.120 of spiritual realm or spiritual power they're trying to either access power that will give

00:10:01.560 them something that they want so it could be something good protection on a journey or it

00:10:06.380 could be something bad like i'm going to curse my enemy right or they're trying to actually access

00:10:11.980 the spiritual realm their their child has died and and the mother misses her child and she's trying

00:10:19.400 to access the spirit of the child but in all of this what was helpful me to think is now now that

00:10:24.520 i think about it there's lots of things that we say lots of chants and incantations that people do

00:10:29.440 or you buy a little amulet and someone said that's for good luck that's for protection that's for

00:10:34.080 you know that that oil or that incense will ward off you know we don't even say evil spirits

00:10:39.120 anymore we just say bad karma right but these are things that we are doing to get exercise

00:10:45.020 authority over spirits or through spirits to achieve something that we we want whether it's

00:10:50.100 ill for someone or good for ourselves or for someone else so that idea really got me thinking

00:10:55.320 like man there's actually a lot of that you can buy these things in in grocery stores you can buy

00:11:00.260 little crystals or little charms or all of these things that are supposed to ward off evil or

00:11:06.300 protect you or just invite blessing. Now we call it blessing, hashtag blessing. You're going to

00:11:11.240 invite blessing into your house with these things. And what confuses people is it can be tempting to

00:11:16.420 think that the spiritual realm operates like the physical realm. So the physical realm, it's been

00:11:21.460 termed an ex-operate operato. You do the thing, there's a mechanical response to it. If I, I don't

00:11:27.180 know punch a wall my wrist is going to break or the wall is going to break it's mechanical you do

00:11:31.400 the thing the reaction will happen so then we'll think that spiritual uh things like witchcraft

00:11:36.800 recitations mantras well i did this thing when i was five years old and it didn't work we brought

00:11:41.800 a camera out to this house of ghosts supposedly and we can't find any of them the spiritual realm

00:11:46.620 doesn't really work like that there's a reason for a repetition of these certain rituals there's

00:11:51.000 a reason that more and more of these items you can bring in because it doesn't work like this

00:11:55.000 world it's not mechanical in that sense and people can be lured into thinking it's all kind of fake

00:11:59.620 i see this movie that's really scary oh man but it's not real no it's very real exodus 22 i think

00:12:05.920 it's 13 you shall not suffer which to live why because people going to new age gurus would hurt

00:12:12.220 the gdp no because it was real and they would do massive damage to the covenant people of israel

00:12:17.740 if they were allowed to set up shop to practice their trade to do these things in the presence

00:12:23.160 of god's people yeah yeah which is mediums necromancers and then what you were saying about

00:12:28.040 like items um i think it like you know talismans yep um you know and and you know some would say

00:12:35.180 like well what about like samson's hair or the bones of right uh the prophet you know or so you

00:12:40.980 know that like um what is it i think it's uh elijah's bones but no because elijah was taken

00:12:46.800 out but i think it just says the prophet uh maybe it's elisha's bones but uh that a dead guy falls

00:12:53.020 on the bones like the grave oh right yeah he comes he's resuscitated and comes back to life

00:12:57.480 um those kinds of things uh but the point is i whether it be you know uh god placing the

00:13:04.160 strength of samson in his hair or or bones bringing someone back to life or you know moses

00:13:10.020 his staff you know um or the ark of the covenant or uh that even god um allows for um for certain

00:13:18.360 things to be sanctified and holy and to contain, you know, or at least function as a medium of

00:13:27.280 certain supernatural divine power. Yeah, William Perkins talks about,

00:13:32.120 and this was really eye-opening to me, he says, only God, there are certain boundaries that God

00:13:38.420 has set up, and only he has authority over. So if we think of the boundary between life and death,

00:13:44.160 Only God has the authority to give life and take life, right?

00:13:49.640 And so to seek a medium is to defy God's rule

00:13:53.540 and actually to say to God, you have done me wrong.

00:13:56.660 Like my child died and you are to blame for this.

00:14:01.380 And you are so wrong that I'm going to take on the authority of myself

00:14:05.860 to connect with my child.

00:14:07.780 God, you haven't given me wealth.

00:14:09.800 And so I'm going to get a charm.

00:14:11.800 I'm going to get some sort of psychic or tarot reading

00:14:15.280 that's going to predict what will be a good stock

00:14:19.440 or lottery number or something like that.

00:14:21.420 Like all of the boundaries that God puts around witchcraft

00:14:26.060 are directly related to things

00:14:27.840 that are his authority only, the future.

00:14:30.600 We don't know the future.

00:14:31.920 That is God's domain.

00:14:33.520 We don't have authority over life and death.

00:14:35.520 We don't even, like even our hard work to bear fruit

00:14:40.040 and to increase our physical material goods,

00:14:44.520 that's still under the hand in sovereign providence of God.

00:14:48.220 And so really at the heart of witchcraft

00:14:50.320 is a rejection of God's right to rule

00:14:54.360 and his position as the sovereign king.

00:14:56.820 Now, we do that with other things.

00:14:58.760 And so witchcraft is doubly bad

00:15:00.120 because it goes to actually not just dishonest gain, 0.85

00:15:02.860 but to evil, dark spiritual power

00:15:05.880 to throw God off his throne.

00:15:07.760 um and and because it's it's startling god puts witchcraft in deuteronomy 18 on the same level

00:15:14.760 as child sacrifice god hates it when we seek dark power to throw him off his throne is this

00:15:22.900 is this a good section for us to uh talk about like samuel and and the witch of indor 0.99

00:15:28.080 i want to say one thing about women and then we can go there go one of the reasons why the

00:15:33.900 temptation to get into witchcraft is predominantly strong in women is exactly what i just said

00:15:39.700 because of fear and because of um um anxiety well no the temptations of eve right so we see with eve

00:15:51.200 that she was more likely to be tricked to be deceived that's what it was and so when satan

00:15:57.260 came to her in the serpent, she was allured by the promise of mystical knowledge, right? She was

00:16:05.880 offended that God would have held something back against her. Sarah was an example of 0.99

00:16:13.780 faith and strength, but the illustration of Sarah illustrates that women are more likely to fear.

00:16:21.280 And so when you have someone who is more likely to be deceived or more likely to fear, they are

00:16:26.500 going to grab onto things that will provide for the safety of their children or that will ensure

00:16:32.580 the longevity of their spouse or that will you know that that tendency to fear will lead them

00:16:38.560 to do other things every conversation i have with a couple it's always well my wife has been reading

00:16:44.620 about pedo-baptism yeah and so i think behind every pedo-baptist man is a wife who wanted

00:16:51.300 assurances with her baby go ahead the the reason why women fall into this are one they want to

00:16:57.980 we'll get into later there's just a rejection of god's order of patriarchal order but two 1.00

00:17:03.340 they are legitimately more afraid they're tempted to fear more and the promises that witchcraft

00:17:08.600 offers what was surprising to me is that most witches in today's age think that they're doing

00:17:15.320 good. Like they're doing love potions and fertility potions and stress relief techniques and benefit

00:17:22.180 your business. And there's not, the 1.5 million witches out there are not all casting hexes on

00:17:27.880 people. They're marketing themselves as we're going to be a blessing to you. And that calls

00:17:34.180 to women more than it does to men, I think, because of the fear aspect and the deception

00:17:37.940 aspect. Yeah, I think you're right. And that's important for people to realize just in terms 0.87

00:17:41.880 of the distinctions between men and women it's um i think a lot of the soft complementarian

00:17:46.860 christian world wants us to think that the distinctions are only physical that women have

00:17:51.240 hips and breasts and can bear children and that men you know are able to bench more than women 0.80

00:17:56.940 you know and therefore they should go to war and part of the reason why these things are being 0.95

00:18:00.680 questioned uniquely in our our time and age is because of the fact that um well because of the

00:18:07.280 industrial revolution and technology boom and all these different things, they've made some

00:18:13.440 of the physical distinctions between men and women while still apparent, less apparent than they would

00:18:18.000 be ordinarily. If the majority of work outside of the home is manual labor, then physical

00:18:26.640 distinctions are more visible. Unniable almost. Right. Yeah. If warfare is, it's Duke Gregory

00:18:34.400 you know slicing a guy diagonally in half you know with a sword was that a diverse army i don't know

00:18:40.120 and then now all of a sudden you know it's like well warfare is pushing a button in a in a you

00:18:47.180 know secure room that's gonna you know send a drone to drop a bomb like then then i understand

00:18:52.800 like it's harder to see but uh biblically speaking the bible doesn't just say that there's a

00:18:57.440 distinction between men and women right uh physically um and when paul uh gives his reasoning

00:19:03.140 in 1 Timothy chapter 2, which is the precursor for 1 Timothy 3, where we find male eldership,

00:19:09.880 exclusively male eldership. And I would also argue, I think that it's a clear argument for

00:19:14.560 a male diaconate as well, that it's the wives of deacons and that that word should not be read as

00:19:19.540 women. So we go into chapter 3, 1 Timothy 3, and it's male leadership of the church. But the

00:19:26.260 precursor, 1 Timothy 2, gives us the reason why. And the reason that Paul cites is twofold. It's

00:19:33.420 not just one, it's two. He lists the order of creation, but he also lists the order of the

00:19:38.940 fall. So he says, Adam is formed first, and then Eve was formed from man and for man as his help

00:19:45.880 mate. You are not each other's helpmate. Adam, he was oriented looking out on his mission,

00:19:50.940 and Eve is given as a suitable help me, help me to Adam for his mission. So the man is not asking

00:19:57.080 his wife, what is your mission? What's your dream? And how can, how can I help you in that? No,

00:20:02.100 it's what is God called? What is God called me to? And how are you going to help build my home?

00:20:08.780 And my home is your home. And with my honor comes your honor. My children are your children. My

00:20:14.400 blessing is your blessing. You share in all these things, but it is his home that, you know, like

00:20:19.800 even like dinner time like uh you know thinking um you know uh my wife and children at my table

00:20:26.500 like i remember the first time i heard you know a thought in those terms my table i i cringed on

00:20:32.060 the inside a little it's our table uh no but it's it's my table um and uh and my wife belongs there

00:20:37.940 and she's seated at my right hand in a place of honor she's esteemed if the children disrespect

00:20:42.720 her there will be consequences and discipline for that but it is um it's it's my house it's my name

00:20:48.420 that she took it's my name that you know um all that is good like even like with weddings you know

00:20:54.100 i used to uh early on in ministry i would counsel you know the father the bride you know who gives

00:20:59.500 this woman in holy matrimony her mother and i do right uh whereas i now would counsel against that

00:21:04.400 i'm not going to force them to or you know i make that the end all be all but i suggest i humbly

00:21:09.100 suggest and recommend um that you would say i do i do um that the father is giving away the daughter

00:21:15.280 And by extension, of course, the mother is involved in that, but it's the father's house

00:21:19.660 and it's the father's children, it's the father's name.

00:21:23.240 And so anyways, all that being said, it's the order of creation that Adam was formed

00:21:27.620 first, Eve is formed second, and Adam is formed from the dust of the ground.

00:21:32.060 So the order of creation, also the substance, Adam is made from the dust, whereas Eve is

00:21:37.460 made from Adam and for Adam.

00:21:39.780 But then the second, this two-prong approach that Paul gives as his reasoning is the order

00:21:44.220 of the fall.

00:21:45.280 Why is it that Adam should be in a place of headship?

00:21:49.360 Because not just because Eve was made second,

00:21:52.980 but because Eve was also deceived first.

00:21:56.260 So second in order of creation,

00:21:59.440 first in the order of fault,

00:22:01.680 that she was deceived and the man was not deceived.

00:22:04.400 And that's not to alleviate any moral culpability.

00:22:08.480 If any, it only increases it.

00:22:10.500 That Adam is, I would argue,

00:22:13.320 not only is he equally responsible,

00:22:15.280 because I'm not a big fan of equality.

00:22:16.980 He's actually more responsible.

00:22:19.340 Adam sinned with his eyes wide open.

00:22:21.340 And all of humanity and their posterity

00:22:23.740 are thrown under the curse of sin because of Adam.

00:22:27.220 If Eve had sinned, but Adam had not,

00:22:29.340 humanity would not be cursed.

00:22:30.740 It was Adam's sin, not their sin, not her sin, his sin.

00:22:34.860 And he did it knowingly. 0.72

00:22:36.040 He did it with his eyes wide open,

00:22:37.820 which only adds to his culpability, his responsibility.

00:22:41.540 It doesn't lessen it.

00:22:42.440 However, there is something to be said

00:22:44.040 for the fact that distinctly in the text,

00:22:46.860 the woman is deceived, not the man.

00:22:51.140 And so when we talk about distinctions

00:22:53.220 between men and women,

00:22:54.080 a lot of times we just say, 1.00

00:22:55.020 well, you know, women have hips 0.98

00:22:56.080 and guys can bench press 0.98

00:22:58.640 and have broader chest, shoulders.

00:23:02.120 No, the distinction goes all the way down,

00:23:05.120 mentally, psychologically.

00:23:06.700 Like this is not a popular thought,

00:23:08.280 but how come, you know,

00:23:09.880 if it's just physical distinctions

00:23:11.340 and physical strength,

00:23:12.700 how how come um how come women can't beat men in chess right now again i'm speaking in

00:23:19.000 generalities i'm not saying one woman can't out binge press a man and i'm not saying that one

00:23:22.700 woman can't beat one man in chess um but statistically um it's like okay so this one

00:23:30.000 woman could run faster than these men but you know but the top you know uh 500 fastest men

00:23:36.360 you know in running a mile uh the the very fastest number one fastest woman can't beat the top 500

00:23:41.800 it well here's the thing it's the same kind of uh statistics in chess that doesn't require any

00:23:46.560 physical strength like there was a popular um show i think it was on netflix um the queen's gambit

00:23:52.760 the show is remarkably accurate it was based off of a true story and many of the details were right

00:23:58.100 on the money there was just one thing that they changed it was a dude it was a dude not a not a

00:24:03.240 chick yep that's fine this chess prodigy yep oh dude of course you know of course it was and so

00:24:10.320 so anyways, the difference goes all the way down. It's not just physical, but it's the way that men

00:24:15.980 and women think mentally. And that doesn't mean that a woman can't be superior in her mental

00:24:20.500 capacity in other areas. But when it comes to strategy, war, psychology, invulnerability 0.99

00:24:31.380 towards manipulation and deception, like men are the superior sex. And again, speaking of 0.99

00:24:37.740 generalities you can find one stupid dude and you can find one wise woman uh but in general 0.99

00:24:43.460 the difference is not just in physical strength and that's god's design um and that's a good 0.99

00:24:49.320 thing because men are called to lead and protect women which is part of what we want to do in this 0.99

00:24:54.180 episode right now is uh the point of this episode is not to say um uh the problem is women uh women

00:25:01.480 are getting into witchcraft no that what we want to say is the problem is witchcraft and women

00:25:06.320 then please listen to us yeah yeah help us help you and husbands and fathers especially think of

00:25:13.500 the wives think of your daughters think of those that you would have influence to be able to

00:25:17.580 positively say not a good idea right no sweetheart yeah we're not bringing that into the home so both

00:25:23.240 for the women and the men watching exactly yeah so for yeah fathers and husbands you need to be

00:25:27.260 aware like what is my wife watching what is she reading what is she being influenced by what are

00:25:32.420 my daughters watching and reading being influenced by and if you see that they're watching and

00:25:37.360 reading about how to make sourdough you need to be really concerned that's that's the rest that's

00:25:43.920 coming we'll get there all right so maybe we'll take a quick commercial break yeah let's take a

00:25:47.280 quick commercial all right everybody's been asking can i live stream your conference and the answer

00:25:53.360 is a resounding no you will be there in person or you will not be there at all i'm just kidding

00:25:59.320 You actually can live stream the conference.

00:26:01.120 We're excited to announce we're making it available to anybody and everybody who wants

00:26:05.760 to watch this conference right as it's happening, which is March 1st and 2nd.

00:26:10.740 That's a Friday and Saturday of 2024.

00:26:13.140 What conference am I even talking about?

00:26:15.060 It's called Blueprints for Christendom 2.0.

00:26:18.100 We've got Pastor Douglas Wilson.

00:26:19.760 We've got Dr. Joe Boot.

00:26:21.040 We've got Brian Sauve.

00:26:22.340 We've got Eric Kahn.

00:26:23.680 And then, of course, yours truly, Joel Webin.

00:26:25.800 We've got seven primary sessions in the conference, each one being probably 50 to 60 minute long sessions, lectures, sermons, whatever you want to call them.

00:26:36.040 And then two live panels, each being an hour and a half long.

00:26:39.740 Now, one of the panels is on biblical patriarchy.

00:26:42.160 We're going to have Pastor Douglas Wilson available for that panel.

00:26:45.860 And we decided to get Eric Kahn because Eric Kahn, biblical patriarchy, let's just be honest, it's a sensitive topic.

00:26:51.940 but eric khan i think is known as one of the most nuanced careful and sensitive individuals

00:26:57.260 especially on the twitter street so we're going to have him as a part of that panel

00:27:00.860 it'll go really well then the second panel is haunted cosmos live show you've got brian sauvet

00:27:06.740 and ben garrett talking about the most unhinged things imaginable hopefully some things that are

00:27:12.200 actually truthful now there will be some truthful things you're going to stick to scripture and when

00:27:16.460 they speculate and you know they will they'll at least let you know that it's speculation and they

00:27:21.140 won't pass it off as though it's in the infallible word of god so live stream this conference how do

00:27:26.020 you do it go to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries again that's patreon.com

00:27:33.520 forward slash right response ministries a lot of guys charge 50 bucks 60 bucks 80 bucks we are

00:27:40.580 asking that you would simply partner with us for 10 a month and let's be real you could do it one

00:27:46.740 month live stream all the content and then cancel your subscription and if you do no harm no foul

00:27:52.220 if you want to stick with us and support this ministry what god's doing through right response

00:27:56.120 then praise god that's great and we thank you either way technically it's only 10 bucks

00:28:01.320 all right welcome back real quick uh an announcement and then we'll get right back

00:28:05.420 to witchcraft and trad wives and sourdough and this is a really interesting topic uh but on that

00:28:10.760 note um it's important if you know some of you guys might see that we've got our notes in front

00:28:15.100 of us if you're watching on youtube um this is the article that uh this week michael belch wrote

00:28:20.620 and so they alternate uh so we've got wesley todd and michael belch every week are alternating and

00:28:25.060 writing an article so that we're coming to uh each episode not just on the fly but uh with

00:28:30.260 preparation and uh a plan and uh often we'll have you know graphs and statistics and certain quotes

00:28:36.760 and things like that that we're able to cite uh so if you want to be able to have this not just

00:28:41.120 and spoken dialogue discussion format,

00:28:43.720 but to be able to have it in a concise written form

00:28:46.440 with citations and things like that,

00:28:48.320 then join us on Patreon.

00:28:49.560 Go to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries,

00:28:54.380 patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.

00:28:57.440 And you can join us either at the silver or the gold tier

00:29:00.480 and you will be able to every single week

00:29:02.280 have access to the written form article

00:29:05.320 for our weekly live stream.

00:29:07.420 And if you join us at the gold tier,

00:29:09.020 that's the commercial you just saw,

00:29:10.120 then you'll be able to watch the live stream.

00:29:12.400 And our conference is happening this weekend.

00:29:14.660 So this is, you know, I've got to get it out.

00:29:16.520 This is pretty much the last video that we're doing.

00:29:19.020 We'll be able to announce this.

00:29:20.740 The next time we come live next Wednesday,

00:29:23.680 the conference will have already come and gone.

00:29:25.860 So that's this weekend.

00:29:26.960 It's Friday and Saturday.

00:29:28.780 It's Friday, Saturday, March 1st and 2nd.

00:29:32.020 Last minute edition for the conference

00:29:33.700 is the true Christian Prince, Dusty Beavers. 1.00

00:29:36.540 He's coming.

00:29:36.900 So I just, everything that he's, he's a friend of mine.

00:29:40.120 and we were talking offline and everything that God keeps blessing him with.

00:29:43.960 Man, I'm like, gosh, like how much money do I have to give to Right Wing Watch

00:29:47.280 to support me the way they support Dusty Deavers?

00:29:50.460 He's got a contract or something.

00:29:51.760 Seriously, they've got to be getting some kind of payment from him and his campaign.

00:29:56.640 But Dusty Deavers, God in his mercy and sovereignty,

00:30:00.020 has launched him into the stratosphere using Right Wing Watch, using Jimmy Fallon,

00:30:03.940 all these guys who think that they're dunking on Dusty Deavers

00:30:06.480 but are actually just using their libtard platforms for the promotion of the gospel of 0.88

00:30:11.880 Jesus Christ. And people are coming to faith in Christ. And Dusty is not compromising one end. 0.92

00:30:17.360 She presented just two months into office as a Oklahoma state senator, nine different bills, 0.92

00:30:23.420 one of them to abolish income tax, to move back to the biblical model, which is a head tax that

00:30:28.060 doesn't favor the rich or pity the poor, where unless a certain income bracket is going to get

00:30:34.320 me a larger swath of the police force. But as far as I'm aware, I don't get more civil service

00:30:41.520 by making more money. So the head tax is fair. It's saying everybody's going to pay this set

00:30:47.540 amount and it's something that's affordable that even the poor in the society would be able to

00:30:51.600 afford. So abolishing income tax, he's also working to abolish property tax. He had a bill

00:30:58.460 for that, Abolish Pornography, Abolish No-Fault Divorce. I mean, just incredible work. So Dusty

00:31:04.740 Deavers is going to be there, Doug Wilson, Eric Kahn, Brian Sauve, Ben Garrett, and it's going to

00:31:09.940 be a great time. We're going to do a couple panels. So we'll get into some of the spicy weeds on

00:31:15.440 things like Christian nationalism, things like biblical patriarchy, and other things that are

00:31:20.320 not related at all, but we really, really enjoy them, like the Nephilim. So we'll do some of that.

00:31:25.200 So anyways, uh, join us at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.

00:31:30.620 If you click on the gold tier, uh, you'll be able to live stream.

00:31:34.260 Uh, if you become a gold member, you'll be able to live stream Friday and Saturday.

00:31:37.840 And as soon as it's over, if you're wondering, I've had a few people ask like, well, what

00:31:41.180 if I'm not available on those exact days at that time that, you know, this lecture is

00:31:45.540 airing, uh, you'll just, you'll just have access so you can watch it live as it's happening.

00:31:50.140 Uh, but you could also show up two days later, three days later, whatever.

00:31:52.800 And it'll be, you know, you'll have all that recorded, whereas everybody else, it'll air to the public on YouTube and our podcast platforms and everything else, probably, you know, probably a month or two after the fact.

00:32:05.740 So you'll be getting, you know, a month or two in advance if you sign up for that.

00:32:11.680 So sign up on Patreon at the silver tier if you want the article every week that goes accompanies the live stream.

00:32:18.440 but the gold tier you'll be able to uh live stream our conference and you'll get uh the the article

00:32:23.820 for our live stream and then lastly let's see um anything else nathan that i'm missing

00:32:30.020 oh it is gold tier all right i keep saying silver tier i'm wrong about that so silver tier what that

00:32:36.900 gets you is early ad free access to the friday special so that's that's what you get so the

00:32:42.220 friday special every week an episode drops but it's season based like 10 episodes at a time

00:32:46.860 And so as soon as the first episode of a new season, the Friday special launches to the public, then if you're a silver tier member of our Patreon, you'll actually have all 10 episodes immediately.

00:32:59.320 So that's what you get as a silver tier member is early ad free access to the Friday special with each season.

00:33:05.920 When the first episode drops, you get the whole season that you can watch without having to wait week by week for the episode.

00:33:11.200 gold tier for the article that accompanies the live stream and to be able to live stream our

00:33:16.900 conference this weekend, Friday and Saturday, March 1st and 2nd. All right. Okay, great. So I

00:33:22.600 want to pivot a little bit and just identify some modern practices of witchcraft. So there's formal

00:33:28.960 kind of philosophies or organizations. This would be Wicca, neopaganism, and New Age spirituality.

00:33:36.960 And these are systems that have kind of structures or meetings or groups or even kind of philosophies behind them where people have done thought, and they're groups that you join.

00:33:47.940 These are definitely out there.

00:33:50.940 About half of all people who say that they're a witch, so there's 1.5 million, about 800,000 of them say that they are part of the Wicca religion.

00:33:59.960 And this is a religion that honors nature.

00:34:04.400 It celebrates the four days in the year when the seasons change, and they honor nature.

00:34:13.180 They do spells, magic, rituals, things like that.

00:34:15.840 Neopaganism is more broad.

00:34:17.360 It goes back to the old gods, the pantheon of gods, and they are very druidic, a lot

00:34:24.660 of Norse mythology or northern mythology, and so they're just going back to old religions

00:34:29.360 that had rites, rituals, druidism, spells,

00:34:33.600 all that sort of thing.

00:34:34.480 And that's making a major comeback too.

00:34:36.320 And then the new age spirituality

00:34:37.500 is the one that we're probably more familiar with

00:34:39.260 because there was a big scare about it.

00:34:41.860 I saw someone mentioned in the comment,

00:34:43.760 the satanic panic earlier,

00:34:46.420 that was related to new age spirituality.

00:34:48.920 And this is the karma, the chanting,

00:34:51.540 the meditations, kind of Zen type stuff.

00:34:55.080 And so I just wanted to give a list of things

00:34:57.660 that kind of constitute modern-day witchcraft.

00:35:03.320 So we have any sort of divination or seances

00:35:07.660 or going to a psychic or a medium,

00:35:12.120 going to a tarot card reader or a palm reader,

00:35:15.640 or any type of person that's trying to predict the future

00:35:18.240 or communicate with the dead.

00:35:20.240 But there's lots of things like just crystals,

00:35:22.900 tarot cards, runes, warding spells,

00:35:26.520 or the little feather things that you see people hang up,

00:35:29.780 if they're to prevent evil or to bring blessing,

00:35:32.500 it's a totem. 0.96

00:35:33.340 It's a spiritual witchcraft ceremony.

00:35:36.520 You don't have to go do some dark pentagram

00:35:38.640 and wear a hood and light candles and kill a goat.

00:35:42.200 Hanging something to ward off evil or bring blessing, 0.96

00:35:45.740 that is participating in a form of witchcraft.

00:35:48.820 There's aura and aura cleanses,

00:35:51.020 and you can buy this on Etsy now,

00:35:53.100 where you get these oils that supposedly cleanse your aura.

00:35:56.660 Yoga, yoga, interestingly, means yoke, like the yoke that oxen wear. 0.96

00:36:01.360 And this is yoking yourself to pagan deities.

00:36:04.840 Right, each of those positions are actually like positions of homage and worship and submission to different pagan deities.

00:36:10.920 Correct. 0.95

00:36:11.380 Stretching is fine.

00:36:12.520 Yoga is not stretching.

00:36:13.300 Yeah. 1.00

00:36:13.900 And then the last one that I think is probably the most tempting or the most deceptive for especially Christian women, 1.00

00:36:20.120 and Wes, you had some comments on this a little while ago, 1.00

00:36:22.240 the power of positive thinking and manifesting a new reality through sayings or chants. So if

00:36:28.920 you're saying even live, laugh, love, right? That phrase on its own is not evil, but that idea of

00:36:35.920 chanting it to yourself over and over to manifest a more positive reality, this is not prayer,

00:36:41.260 okay? This is not, prayer is submitting yourself to the will of God and seeking his aid. Live,

00:36:48.640 laugh, love, or just breathe, all will be well. There's all sorts of them that are words that

00:36:54.560 really amount to an incantation that seek to bring a positive, powerful, spiritual change

00:37:00.860 to your surroundings. I think these are the things where a lot of us, and the women in particular,

00:37:06.000 are really being deceived. Yeah. Real quick, just to address a comment, somebody asked if,

00:37:12.820 like as a grandfather, would you go to your grandchild's infant baptism? And just for the

00:37:17.880 record i i would so you know take it for what it's worth grandfather would go yeah i would so

00:37:23.140 in general i've got videos that deal with this i've got a video with joe boot where we talk about

00:37:27.980 you know the divide with baptism and you know but my my general take is this you need to know what

00:37:32.380 time it is so i'm i'm 1689 i am a credo baptist um about as covenantal as you could possibly be

00:37:38.300 as a credo baptist i upset uh certainly you know dispensational you know arminian baptist but i

00:37:44.420 upset even plenty of my 1689 Baptist brothers with my view of children and parenting and covenant

00:37:49.580 and all those kinds of things. But I am still, for better or worse, a credo-baptist. And I would

00:37:54.380 personally, I would go and attend an infant baptism, very different than the Alistair Begg 0.98

00:37:59.260 transgender wedding. So yes, I think that you could go to your grandson or granddaughter's

00:38:06.180 pedo-baptism. And my little elevator pitch is I would just say this in regards to baptism.

00:38:12.100 It matters. All of God's truth matters. But I do think that debates about baptism are a luxury

00:38:17.780 of Christendom. So I think that when Christendom is shining, it's brightest. When we're in a

00:38:24.940 Christian nation and we're dominated in the Christian worldview and those kinds of things, 0.99

00:38:28.560 and there's a church on every single street corner, then yeah, you should go to, if you're

00:38:32.600 a Baptist, you should go to the Baptist church. But right now I have tons of, you know, plenty

00:38:37.860 of pedo-baptists in the church that i pastor because um they don't have those options they

00:38:43.400 can go to um the baptist church with a spine or they can go to the pedo-baptist presbyterian church

00:38:48.840 uh that closed for you know for 14 months during covid um and is just they know is gonna fold like

00:38:56.000 a cheap suit with the next the next thing whatever you know whatever the next thing is so uh given

00:39:01.160 that you know scenario um i try not to make baptism a huge deal because i want to know what

00:39:06.240 time it is. The enemy is at the gate. We're not in a bright, shiny moment of Christendom. Christendom

00:39:11.340 is waning and has been waning for arguably a couple hundred years, certainly 130 years,

00:39:16.740 definitely last 60 years, definitely, definitely, definitely last three years. So Christendom is

00:39:21.260 waning and Christendom is on the ropes on post-millennial. So I don't think that that's

00:39:26.320 going to be the final story. I believe in Christ's victory through his hands and feet, the church

00:39:29.860 here on earth in human history carried out. And so, but we do need to know like the sons of

00:39:35.720 Issachar, the times. Right now, we are in a moment where the church is a full-fledged attack 0.63

00:39:42.780 against the church. And when that's the case, I don't think you can afford to send half of the

00:39:46.980 fighting men home. So if a guy believes in the kingship of Jesus Christ, justification by grace

00:39:53.640 alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, he wants to push back on the spirit of the age. He's

00:39:57.960 a son of Issachar. He knows the times. But his one-year-old is baptized. I'm just going to fight

00:40:04.320 with him, right? He'll get, you know, you have my sword, I'll have his axe, you know, and we'll go

00:40:09.020 to war. And when Christendom is shining again, 500 years later, then we'll still be good friends

00:40:14.480 and brothers in Christ, but we'll go to different churches on either side of the street, you know,

00:40:19.580 the good Presbyterian church and the good Baptist church. And that's that. Any thoughts on that,

00:40:24.660 Wes? Well, just to give an example, this was probably two years ago, we went to the public

00:40:27.960 square, I believe it was when Roe v. Wade was overturned. And we had our children, I think you

00:40:32.700 were preaching and we were singing songs i don't know if i ever told either of you this but there

00:40:36.400 was a woman that took an amulet and she was rubbing it and doing signs with her hands and

00:40:40.580 was very likely trying to cast some type of hex on her children so me and another man walked up

00:40:45.780 and talked to her and she was very warm and friendly and she kind of got the hint and went

00:40:48.880 away but like this isn't just like someone somewhere is doing this she was mormon friendly

00:40:53.540 warm and friendly she was warm and friendly and daring came up and tried to talk to her

00:40:58.340 it wasn't like get away from me but just taking your kids out in public square right worshiping

00:41:02.920 and that's even like preaching it has a physical dimension and it has a spiritual dimension to it

00:41:08.220 so we talk about witchcraft that's spiritual warfare well preaching and singing and the

00:41:12.900 gathering of the saints on lord's day those are means of spiritual warfare as well so we're always

00:41:17.420 doing some type of warfare and if you think that the battle's not happening if you spread out for

00:41:21.760 a nice picnic well you're going to get taken quicker than the battle even started you've missed

00:41:26.380 the plot right did you have any other comments on the sayings and kind of that manifesting positive

00:41:32.120 we had had a conversation a while ago about kind of some of those things that the live laugh love

00:41:38.020 and kind of that idea of those chants and i don't know if you had had any other thoughts on it from

00:41:44.240 what we talked about before yeah it's interesting for human beings we often we become what we behold

00:41:49.080 so what it is that you look at and behold you're ultimately going to be changed into so if you

00:41:54.180 decorate your home with statements that are pithy, short, shallow, that's ultimately going to be kind

00:42:00.100 of the highest you reach to. In contrast, the man of Psalm chapter 1, the righteous man, he meditates

00:42:04.860 on God's law day and night. He takes it in. He thinks on it. It's intellectually rigorous. So

00:42:10.620 that would be just one of the commendations of don't settle for cheap sayings. Live, laugh,

00:42:15.020 love is not witchcraft necessarily, but you can set the bar so low and orient yourself around 1.00

00:42:19.960 things that are of such a lack of substance, they don't order you as a Christian, and that would be

00:42:25.820 the thing I would say as it relates to what you decorate your home with, the sayings you throw out,

00:42:30.640 what it is you tell yourself when you're having a bad day. Yeah, good. Okay, well, let's talk about,

00:42:37.340 and Nate, here we'll come to some of those graphs that I had mentioned earlier. The occult and

00:42:44.020 witchcraft are definitely on the rise in America. In fact, in the early 2000s, Wiccan was the 0.97

00:42:49.260 fastest growing religion group, religious group in, in the country. Um, currently some kind of 1.00

00:42:56.340 discouraging statistics. Now this is about new age belief. This is a Pew research study from 2017

00:43:01.140 and it shows that this is just a cross section of the United States. Um, 62% of all U S adults

00:43:09.880 affirm belief in one of the four big pillars of new age spirituality, which is that, uh,

00:43:16.720 spiritual energy can be located in things, or they believe in psychics, or they believe in

00:43:21.420 reincarnation, or they believe in astrology. And so statistically speaking, when you're talking to

00:43:26.440 some person that you don't know, there's a better likelihood than not that that person believes

00:43:30.860 some sort of pagan belief, overtly pagan belief. Unfortunately, it's not much better among

00:43:38.060 Christians. 61% as a cross-section of people who call themselves Christians believe at least one

00:43:44.500 of those statements now evangelicals are lower but even still 47 of evangelicals affirm one of

00:43:50.500 those statements it's kind of shocking and surprising the astrology one 30 that's like

00:43:56.980 saying uh brown or chocolate milk comes from brown cows that's about on the same level to me

00:44:01.620 yeah but you think about it in so many tv shows and books and whatnot they have reincarnation

00:44:09.800 karma all about like uh crossing the barrier of death with your works and providing for a future

00:44:18.080 better life and and that's that violates the principle that it's at a point it is appointed

00:44:22.560 unto a man wants to die right so these things are supposed to lull us into a sense that we are not

00:44:28.380 going to face judgment there is a reincarnation there's a chance to do it better there's karma i

00:44:33.440 can buy back my debt that i've accumulated these appeal of course to us we're terrified of meeting

00:44:39.620 our maker and of judgment and we we do anything we can to avoid that except of course turn to

00:44:45.200 christ and astrology does this thing with being really vague so it captures people and like oh

00:44:50.460 something interesting is going to happen to you well the next day this thing did that's so vague

00:44:54.660 and so generic but people fall for it like oh well i'm this this is my astrological sign so this

00:45:00.380 helps explain something like that no it doesn't this is just a broad banner of behavior that you

00:45:05.400 think explains this little thing when there's a thousand things that could be the reason for it

00:45:08.700 most certainly not, the position of the stars on the night you were born.

00:45:12.500 Yeah.

00:45:12.900 Right.

00:45:13.680 All right.

00:45:13.960 And then particularly with women, Nate, this is that next chart,

00:45:17.460 women being more likely to affirm these beliefs.

00:45:21.220 So if you have the second one, Nate, if not, I'll just read it here.

00:45:26.380 There it is.

00:45:28.060 So men, men do fall into this.

00:45:29.840 55% of men surveyed did affirm these beliefs,

00:45:32.680 but then 69% of women, much higher percentage there.

00:45:37.540 So what's interesting to me is that witchcraft and the occult have long been associated with female empowerment.

00:45:47.040 Even before the term feminism, the idea of a woman being empowered and freed from traditional bonds of her role in the family or in society or even in nature.

00:46:00.880 Before the term feminism, women's empowerment was being achieved through witchcraft for a long time.

00:46:06.720 And as I was doing some research, a lot of researchers have basically said that the rise of witchcraft, number one, it always comes with times of great social change.

00:46:20.440 But number two, specifically, first wave feminism saw a marked rise in witchcraft.

00:46:26.680 Second wave feminism saw a marked rise in witchcraft.

00:46:30.320 And sometimes we have this idea that the first wave of feminism was a good thing.

00:46:33.420 But it was accompanied by, I wouldn't say it's the same thing, but they share similar goals, which is to liberate women from patriarchy, from shackles of chastity and virtue and purity and things like that.

00:46:50.000 And so when you have a movement in society that's wanting to liberate women from that, and you have a spiritual movement that has the same goals, of course they're going to run in tandem.

00:46:58.340 They're not exactly the same thing. One thing that I thought was funny was that in Australia, Australia is in some ways more like the 1960s, where the word feminism is still kind of a bad word there.

00:47:10.960 And so if you ask women if they're feminists, a lot of them will kind of say, well, has a bad reputation. I don't know if I identify as a feminist.

00:47:17.020 And so I read an interview with a witch from Australia who was saying, I don't associate with feminism because that's, you know, that's going to undo the perception of witches in Australia is better than the perception of feminists.

00:47:29.320 So in Australia, the witches didn't want to associate with feminists.

00:47:32.280 But here they run very much in parallel, the very hand in hand, because they're seeking the same goals. 1.00

00:47:38.760 Yep.

00:47:39.920 Okay.

00:47:41.060 I guess I'll do a couple more things here, and then when we come back, we can talk about sourdough.

00:47:45.100 So what was surprising to me is—

00:47:47.760 What about that sourdough dough?

00:47:49.060 That's right. That's right.

00:47:50.800 Actually, I do want to read a couple quotes here.

00:47:52.940 So here's one from an interview, a research paper, actually. 0.99

00:47:57.860 Today, however, for some, witchcraft is a part of their feminism or girl power.

00:48:01.940 We saw this in the 1960s and 70s during the women's movement. 0.76

00:48:06.000 Mary Daly was one of the first feminists to reclaim the word.

00:48:09.280 She was very important in this, but not only the only one doing so.

00:48:12.320 it's the notion that these words that have been used against women were taken back and refashioned

00:48:17.800 into something that they could use to be positive. And so witchcraft has become a positive thing.

00:48:23.320 It's now hip and trendy. On TikTok, the hashtag witch talk has been interacted with 30 billion 0.94

00:48:30.380 times. Our teenage girls are interacting with witchcraft on TikTok. And the switch that's

00:48:37.760 happened was witches have gone from being dark something you don't talk about to to rebrand it

00:48:43.160 as something very popular very um chic and very trendy so real danger abortion marches they'll

00:48:49.960 have signs that will say we are the daughters of the witches you couldn't drown the witches you

00:48:53.760 couldn't burn we're their offspring and we're here to finish what they started yeah and not

00:48:58.380 surprisingly the there's a very tight connection between witches and all the other what i call 0.95

00:49:04.520 bastard justices uh social justice gay rights justice climate justice you name it they're 0.76

00:49:12.380 they're very friendly reaching across the aisles to promote this liberation for all right which 0.95

00:49:19.480 true liberation is terrifying destructive and um and fearful and yet some through spiritual power

00:49:27.160 some through just social political political agenda they're sharing the same ends and one

00:49:35.200 thing that caught me or that that really startled me was to realize that behind these movements not

00:49:41.600 all of them not every person marching at a blm blm rally or at a women's right rally is a witch

00:49:47.080 or practitioner of magic but behind these movements are people who are very committed

00:49:53.500 to practicing dark occult things.

00:49:56.900 And when Paul says that our battle

00:49:58.420 is not against flesh and blood, 1.00

00:50:00.200 like I think Christians have assumed 0.99

00:50:02.040 that these political social forces of feminism,

00:50:06.260 of women's liberation, of social justice,

00:50:09.420 they're purely political animals and they are not. 1.00

00:50:13.480 They are, they're a spiritual force, power.

00:50:17.020 The devil and spiritual forces are interested

00:50:19.760 in these questions and in deceiving us

00:50:22.300 over these questions.

00:50:23.500 And so that's not to say that everyone out there is a witch, but to say that there is

00:50:28.920 dark occult powers behind a lot of these movements.

00:50:33.820 Right.

00:50:34.500 Yeah.

00:50:35.220 Yeah.

00:50:36.040 With that real quick, and then let's do the sourdough, but Witch of Endor.

00:50:40.580 Just to explain that, so this is when Saul is seeking counsel from Samuel because, you

00:50:47.780 know, Samuel has already at this point died and is with the Lord. 0.66

00:50:51.640 um and so saul had eradicated and pushed out all the different necromancers and mediums out of the 0.79

00:50:58.160 land of israel but he goes and he disguises himself undercover because a medium or a witch 0.91

00:51:03.520 or you know wouldn't uh reveal themselves to saul because saul's the guy who's been putting them to 0.99

00:51:08.400 death you know um and rightfully so uh but he goes and seeks one's out one out um you know with the

00:51:14.600 disguise and asked that this witch of Endor would call up Samuel. And the witch is terrified when 0.50

00:51:23.100 all of a sudden Samuel comes up. And there's lots of debate between biblical scholars over whether

00:51:28.100 or not it was actually Samuel. My position, just for the record, is I do believe that it was Samuel.

00:51:32.180 And I believe that the way that witches function, the reason why I'm saying is because I think this

00:51:35.320 text gives some insight to witches in general when it comes to functioning as mediums with

00:51:41.080 with loved ones who have passed away and things like that typically the way that a witch works

00:51:48.300 is that she has access to a familiar what the bible would call familiar spirit so you think

00:51:54.280 another you know new testament example would be the apostle paul when he cast out this spirit

00:51:59.940 of a slave girl who was making a profit for her masters and her masters are angry because her

00:52:06.480 ability to divine and make them a material prophet is now gone. But for multiple days,

00:52:12.560 she was following the apostle Paul and saying, this man, you know, is, you know, an apostle and

00:52:16.920 a messenger and ambassador of, you know, the living God. And it became so incessant. She was

00:52:22.620 trying to basically just cause a scene anywhere Paul was going to where, you know, to impede his

00:52:27.920 ability to effectively minister that eventually, you know, he turned around and just rebuked the

00:52:34.540 evil spirit, and it left. But she was using a familiar spirit, and the witch of Endor was

00:52:40.620 likely the same. So my point is, the reason why she's shocked is because I think it really was

00:52:46.400 the spirit of Samuel. So Samuel's body awaiting the resurrection, as we all do, both the righteous

00:52:52.700 and the damned, we will be physically resurrected unto eternal damnation or eternal bliss and

00:52:59.960 and uh and pleasure and peace and joy with with communion with god forever but in either case both

00:53:05.200 the righteous and the damned are bodies physical bodies will be glorified and resurrected at the

00:53:09.580 end of the age um and so that had not yet happened in the case of of samuel so his body physically

00:53:14.500 physically is buried but his soul um is um is in sheol sheol not being hell but the realm of the

00:53:21.440 dead in a particular section if you will of the realm of the dead being uh the the realm of paradise

00:53:27.560 known as Abraham's bosom. And so this is also when Jesus tells the parable that as far as we know is

00:53:33.000 a parable, but it also could be an actual account. There's nothing biblically that says that Jesus

00:53:37.300 isn't speaking literally. We don't know that for a fact, but he talks about, you know, a beggar 0.96

00:53:41.820 named Lazarus and the rich man, and they both died. And Lazarus is in Abraham's bosom. There's

00:53:46.780 a chasm in between. So sectioning off, dividing these different areas in the realm of Sheol or 0.88

00:53:53.260 Hades, the realm of the dead. There's Abraham's bosom. That's where Lazarus, who was a righteous

00:53:58.080 beggar, he's being comforted now. And there's a great chasm fixed in between him and the rich man

00:54:02.980 whose table he used to beg at. That guy is in a place of torment. And he says, you know, I'm

00:54:08.780 thirsty. Could you just, you know, dip your finger in the water and come and touch my tongue? And

00:54:13.200 Jesus, you know, you know, says, well, speaking, Abraham speaking, but Jesus telling this parable

00:54:19.160 or account that the great chasm has been fixed. So people on this side, Abraham's bosom, the side

00:54:24.980 of paradise can't go over there to you and you likewise can't come over here. Now on this side

00:54:29.760 of the cross, now that we have the finished work of Christ, we believe that the Bible speaks of

00:54:35.600 how Christ, that he descended to Hades in the spirit. Peter talks about this, that he went in

00:54:41.920 the spirit and proclaimed. Now it's not a second offer of redemption to those who have already

00:54:46.820 died in the rebellion, but it's a proclamation of his victory over sin and Satan. And then he leads

00:54:54.780 a host of captives free. So during the three days in which Christ's body was buried before his

00:55:01.460 resurrection, but after his crucifixion, in the spirit, he descends is what the Bible says. And

00:55:08.300 he doesn't go to hell. He experienced hell, the wrath of God on the cross. So Jesus to atone for

00:55:14.580 our sin. It's not that Jesus had to go to hell so that we don't have to. Jesus had to take upon

00:55:21.420 himself, drink the full cup of the wrath of God so that we don't have to. For us, that would be

00:55:25.680 hell. For Christ, he experienced hell, the full wrath of God on the cross. And then once he was

00:55:31.340 dead and his body buried in between his death and resurrection, his spirit descended not to hell,

00:55:37.200 but to Hades or Sheol, the realm of the dead. And he proclaimed, the implication is from the side

00:55:42.200 of paradise in Abraham's bosom, he now is proclaiming across that chasm to the damned 0.64

00:55:47.880 human souls that are damned and to certain fallen angels, angelic beings who had rebelled and fallen

00:55:55.620 that had been locked in gloomy dungeons. Jude talks about this. So he's proclaiming both to

00:55:59.720 fallen angels and fallen humanity, his victory, not offering a second chance at redemption, 0.84

00:56:04.920 but rather a proclamation, a nanny-nanny-boo-boo sermon. You lost, I won. Then he leads the host 0.89

00:56:12.860 of captives, those in Abraham's bosom, the righteous. He leads them in triumphant procession

00:56:19.140 up to heaven now because the way has been paved. And so now when people die, to be absent in the

00:56:24.800 body is to be present with the Lord, not in Abraham's bosom, descending in the earth,

00:56:29.980 a spiritual realm that is to descend, whether that's literally in the earth or not. I actually

00:56:36.040 think it is. And I talk about that another time because it's a little bit unhinged, but that's my

00:56:40.400 view. But now we ascend and when we die in spirit, our soul is now up ascending in heaven with the

00:56:50.000 Lord because the cross is finished and the work has been done. And so all that being said, back

00:56:56.600 to Samuel, the witch of Endor, I think it's significant that Samuel, it says he comes up

00:57:03.600 from the ground. And this is Old Testament before the cross. Samuel would have been

00:57:07.920 his soul, his body buried somewhere on earth, but his soul would have been in Sheol, the realm of 0.53

00:57:14.640 the dead, namely in Abraham's bosom, the paradise portion of the realm of the dead. And so it would

00:57:21.620 have been like Christ who descended. This is in the Apostles' Creed. This is also in 1 Corinthians.

00:57:26.600 multiple texts of scripture, Ephesians chapter four, he who descended also ascended. So Samuel

00:57:33.620 is down in Abraham's bosom and he comes up. And I think that's significant. And then she's shocked,

00:57:39.200 not because it was just smoke and mirrors. That's my whole point. She's not shocked because

00:57:44.200 witchcraft isn't real. She's not shocked because it was just a trick, an illusion. She's used to

00:57:53.660 something supernaturally taking place but what she's used to is uh is not the actual soul of a

00:58:00.980 deceased person coming up from shield which is what happens in the case of samuel what she's used

00:58:06.260 to is her her um familiar spirit just appearing um and and taking in the familiar spirit doing an

00:58:14.900 act of trickery supernatural trickery and pretending to be the soul of that person's

00:58:20.880 deceased loved one. And that familiar spirit is not omnipresent. God is the only omnipresent

00:58:25.800 being, but that familiar spirit working with other disembodied, you know, malevolent spirits

00:58:33.200 absolutely very quickly can gain access. So if you think of like crystal ball and a medium or

00:58:39.220 tarot readers, I'm waiting, I'm waiting. Now some of them is just BS, but some of them are waiting

00:58:45.920 on a familiar, and the reason why they're waiting is because their familiar spirit that is not

00:58:50.240 omnipresent has to actually travel now quickly it's different than you and i but it has to travel

00:58:55.380 through space and time to correspond with some other syndicate of spirits or itself to go into

00:59:01.120 someone's home to see a picture on the wall or to find out this detail or that detail to come back

00:59:06.320 and then be able to pretend with now having specific knowledge that only the the deceased

00:59:12.200 person and their loved one who's come into uh the tarot reader you know fortune tellers you know

00:59:17.860 place of business, something that only they would know so that they could actually convince the

00:59:23.040 person, I am the spirit, the soul of your deceased loved one. When in reality, this is a familiar

00:59:28.700 spirit. It's a disembodied malevolent spirit, whether that's a fallen angel, there's an argument

00:59:34.240 to be made, or whether that's the disembodied malevolent spirit of Nephilim and times past,

00:59:39.120 but it is a demonic spirit, disembodied demonic evil spirit, not the soul of the loved one.

00:59:45.440 And the only reason why Samuel, his spirit, it's actually Samuel's, comes up, God alone, back to what you said earlier, Michael, has the authority.

00:59:56.060 Nobody has the authority, not even Satan, to disrupt the rest of God's elect and to call them up.

01:00:03.700 God allows that to happen.

01:00:05.640 So God in his sovereignty in this particular case, because of what he's doing, namely with Saul's judgment,

01:00:11.660 And that being a judgment on Israel, Saul standing in as representative and king, God

01:00:17.740 actually allows his prophet to come back for one last prophetic word to pronounce a judgment

01:00:23.580 on Saul and what's going to happen.

01:00:25.760 But that's a very peculiar thing.

01:00:28.080 And it's not something, notice, the point is, it's not something the witch of Endor

01:00:31.240 had authority over.

01:00:32.540 And that's why she was shocked, because she's been pretending to call up the souls of lost 0.72

01:00:37.600 loved ones.

01:00:38.340 but the only authority that she's had was a partnership, a deal she made with the devil

01:00:42.540 to be able to access a familiar spirit. But all of a sudden it actually works. Not that it usually

01:00:48.180 doesn't work at all. No, something supernatural works, but not this thing. It's a partnership

01:00:53.300 with a demonic spirit and she has some kind of authority there because she's made some kind of

01:00:58.440 deal, some kind of coven with these demonic spirits. But in this case, something that only

01:01:04.060 god can do uh the soul of one of his elect actually comes up because it's a peculiar circumstance uh

01:01:10.060 with with saul and israel and judgment and prophecy all these kinds of things so all that being said

01:01:14.600 as it pertains today um yes that absolutely can still occur um in the same way that it occurred

01:01:20.460 with the slave girl in the time of paul a familiar spirit a familiar spirit no not the soul of the

01:01:25.220 elect coming up or some or the soul of the damned coming up not not an actual human spirit coming up

01:01:29.860 from the dead. But absolutely, can someone call upon a disembodied spirit? Some of these spirits,

01:01:38.560 I believe that since the work of Christ, that some of these spirits have been locked in gloomy

01:01:44.100 dungeons. There was a real objective victory, and not just in terms of justification and sin

01:01:52.780 and atonement. That's the heart of the gospel. That's paramount. But also, sometimes as Reformed

01:01:58.780 Christians, we neglect, because we're far too sophisticated for it, but we neglect some of the

01:02:04.540 supernatural spiritual ramifications of Christ's victory on the cross and His resurrection.

01:02:10.700 There is not as much spiritual power that malevolent spirits have today, post-Christ,

01:02:20.280 than they did pre-Christ. And you might say, well, but look at how bad things are. Look at the WF,

01:02:24.840 and look at this uh-huh and uh and look at assyria look at babylon look at persia i'm telling you

01:02:30.520 no comparison go back to babylon if there if you had a time machine you go back you would be seeing

01:02:35.040 spirits rising up out of the ground visibly like it it would make george soros dreams of being able

01:02:43.000 to have you know babylon's access to to evil spirits so uh but that's not to say that they've

01:02:48.040 been utterly eradicated so there is a a sizable significant change that has happened because of

01:02:53.640 the finished work of christ um but it is not it's that that already but not yet uh that the kingdom

01:02:58.560 is here and that's significant and it matters uh but there's a culmination and a fullness um that

01:03:04.380 we're still uh waiting for that's progressively being brought about through history leading up

01:03:08.400 to the final physical return of christ so there are still disembodied malevolent spirits uh many

01:03:13.640 of these uh there's an argument for elemental spirits there's an argument for familiar spirit

01:03:17.700 different classifications but familiar spirits are a thing um i'm likely uh you know i lean

01:03:22.720 towards them having less power or being less in number on this side of the cross but that being

01:03:28.520 said i do believe that even here this side of the cross in times and places historically where

01:03:36.860 christianity wanes and paganism rises i think these spirits which again as i said earlier are

01:03:42.740 not omnipresent but they have a they don't have a body but they do still have a a um a geographic

01:03:48.520 locale they still have a physical locale although not having a physical body and i do believe that

01:03:53.820 in terms of of location that they gravitate to places where christendom is waning where the

01:03:59.640 christian worldview is is absent and and as america continues to turn the west turns against

01:04:06.600 christ and christ said this if you cast out a demonic spirit then the house that man as a vessel

01:04:12.340 is is swept clean and put in order but it remains if it remains empty and it's not filled with the

01:04:17.860 Holy Spirit and it's not filled with the Christian worldview and Christian worship, then ultimately

01:04:22.440 you have a clean house, but it's an empty house, and that spirit will go through arid places. So

01:04:27.820 again, a physical locale is going through arid places, disembodied, looking for a host. It wants

01:04:33.160 a body, and if you do that with a disembodied Nephilim that they had a body, it makes a lot 0.98

01:04:39.300 of sense. But either way, the point is it wants a host, and it will come back with seven other 0.55

01:04:43.820 spirits, demonic buddies, worse than itself, so that the latter state of the man is worse

01:04:49.080 than the former. And I think that certainly applies in the way that Jesus expressly said it

01:04:54.400 to individuals who were demon-possessed and it's been cast out, but they weren't converted to

01:04:59.600 Christianity. But I think that also has a corporate, general corporate application to

01:05:04.520 nations and peoples and societies and cultures. The West has been Christianized, but the West 0.91

01:05:11.680 has chosen to um to corporately on the whole uh to reject christ and the house is um is now it's 0.70

01:05:20.080 not a chaotic disorderly house it is a swept clean and put in order house but quickly becoming um a

01:05:26.340 vapid empty house for all those norse demons uh the saxons you know uh buddies from from once upon

01:05:34.760 of time to come rushing back seven times worse. So on one hand, less power because of the finished

01:05:42.180 work of Christ. But on the other hand, what does it look for seven worse demons to come back

01:05:47.040 to the house of Christodom, a Christodom of the past, but now that's empty? It's swept clean and

01:05:54.080 put in order. It has technological, I take the swept clean and put in order to spell that out.

01:05:58.740 think of um what does it look like to have a a demonic west with nukes right right what does it

01:06:06.160 look like to have a demonic west with um with mrna you know technology what does it look like

01:06:12.700 well what it looks like is um america right and and it'll only get worse if we don't return so 0.51

01:06:19.380 these things are real uh that's the witch of indoor and how that ties in so let's go to our

01:06:23.060 last commercial break and then we are gonna what about that sourdough dough so we'll get to that

01:06:28.740 Are you a Christian struggling to find companies that align with your values and beliefs?

01:06:33.100 Well, then Squirrely Joe's has you covered for all your coffee needs.

01:06:37.560 All of their coffee is hand-selected and roasted fresh every day by a family of fellow believers.

01:06:43.760 Try them out and you'll savor exceptional coffee while knowing that your investment supports a company committed to following God's teachings and upholding truth and righteousness,

01:06:54.460 ensuring that your hard-earned money contributes to the growth of God's kingdom.

01:06:59.680 So head on over to squirrelyjoes.com forward slash right response.

01:07:04.820 Enter promo code RRM at checkout for 20% off your purchase.

01:07:11.860 So I think what we have established is that there are very real dangers out there

01:07:16.080 and that in this particular context of the lure of the occult, witchcraft, paganism,

01:07:22.140 they're particularly targeted at, and our women are particularly susceptible to them.

01:07:28.840 All of that leads us to what we want to do as a comparison. And Joel, it ties to what you said

01:07:35.460 earlier about going to a grandson's baptism. And we need to know what time it is. So a lot of you

01:07:44.680 watching probably know, but it was last week, Founders Ministry had a panel where they invited

01:07:51.860 Allie Beth Stuckey on. And look, I'm not going to drag her through the coals completely. I looked

01:07:57.340 through her channel. She's had four or five at least times where she's had guests on to talk

01:08:02.320 specifically about occultism and supernatural issues, particularly as it relates to women.

01:08:08.320 She's aware. It's not like we're, she's never addressed this issue. But the issue is raising

01:08:16.040 a real serious concern about the trad life phenomenon, right?

01:08:21.840 And so she was very concerned that women who watch trad life channels or follow trad life

01:08:29.480 women on Instagram are going to feel a sense of comparison or that they can't measure up

01:08:36.200 but that their worth will be left less because their sourdough is worse or they're not tending 0.88

01:08:40.320 the garden as well or they're not making their own dresses as well and that this will lead

01:08:44.520 to a comparison and it might be true that women do struggle with this a little bit more when i

01:08:48.960 watch woodworking videos i don't look at that guy's hundred thousand dollar shop and say i'm 0.99

01:08:53.400 worthless i say man i gotta work harder and get that right like that's that's what i want to do

01:08:58.260 and so she might be on to something but the idea that this is a serious concern is i think what we

01:09:05.060 want to talk about right this is a little bit of the the principle of no enemies on the right 0.96

01:09:09.120 right the trad wife is doing more i hate to say it to instill a domestic spirit into the women

01:09:17.560 in america than most evangelical churches have done for decades right it's it's done it's done

01:09:22.960 more to cause women to want to be at home and create and produce and even even submit to and 0.87

01:09:31.020 affirm and build up their husbands i i've seen a few videos where there are women who are obviously 1.00

01:09:37.480 They're dressed up. 1.00

01:09:38.300 They've got their makeup. 0.99

01:09:39.020 They've got the trad wife look. 0.54

01:09:40.020 And there is a look who are saying, 0.84

01:09:42.700 pick up your husband's dirty socks

01:09:44.140 and don't whine about it, you know?

01:09:46.760 Support him.

01:09:47.760 Let him go to work and work hard.

01:09:49.800 And so I just, I guess we want to react a little bit

01:09:52.840 with obvious dangers, and witchcraft is just one of them.

01:09:56.000 There are many, many other dangers. 0.99

01:09:57.940 It seems ill-timed to go after women 1.00

01:10:00.320 over sourdough and diapers and homemade dresses. 1.00

01:10:04.220 Right.

01:10:05.360 Do you want to, I've got thoughts, but, you know.

01:10:07.280 speak to it it's interesting because all sins are equal in the sense that all sins damn one single

01:10:12.860 sin committed against the holy god is enough for you to spend an attorney in hell that's true but 0.77

01:10:17.680 not all sins are equally destructive right so they're very well are unconverted women and families

01:10:23.840 that are doing the homesteading thing that got kind of caught up in the movement that could be

01:10:28.280 great to live off on the grid and there can be an idolatry maybe of a certain aesthetic or the family

01:10:32.880 those things are real and someone somewhere may be falling into them but it is nowhere as near as

01:10:38.080 destructive nowhere as near as prevalent as so many of these other ones and a typical foil is

01:10:42.760 done like well there's the trad wife and the red pill man and both are equally destructive no they

01:10:47.840 are not no because one is much closer to nature red pill is man fallen red pill is get a vasectomy

01:10:54.900 don't commit to a family don't take dominion uh be a pickup artist go make a lot of money

01:11:00.260 and idolize that's not the same as hey the home is a great place uh for women children are wonderful

01:11:07.580 and a blessing uh the love of a family is a powerful thing those two are not the same and

01:11:12.760 you happen to magically be right in the middle right i heard that over this last week in regards

01:11:16.860 to you know the founders saying like you know from from good christian brothers you know but

01:11:21.320 like saying you know uh like andrew tate and the ballerina farm girl are uh two sides of the same

01:11:28.060 coin no and i was like that's um i just i don't like you're not gonna make it you are so naive

01:11:34.800 you're just not gonna make it god bless you god bless your heart is how you know pretty much how

01:11:39.240 oh sweetheart yeah um no um uh making making sourdough and wearing a sundress um even as a

01:11:48.020 mormon which is wrong which is heresy um mormonism is um is it's it's a false religion it will lead 0.98

01:11:57.380 you to hell. But that's not what we're saying. It's important that people understand not all 0.97

01:12:02.580 sins are equal. All sins are equal in the sense that apart from saving grace, which is found

01:12:06.940 through faith in Christ alone, they will damn you to hell for eternity. But they're not all equally

01:12:12.640 in their destructiveness or in their earthly consequences. I want my kids to know that. I

01:12:20.740 I want my kids to know every sin matters in the sight of God in an eternal framework.

01:12:26.620 But I don't want my kids thinking all sin is equal.

01:12:29.480 I want them to know that if they tattletale on their sister, or if they murder a kid at school, that those things are different.

01:12:40.660 And one is going to have a much more severe consequence than the other.

01:12:44.880 So having a harem of women and being a pimp and bragging about it and literally cutting off your own lineage, your own line, and saying, don't have kids, don't ever get married, that is not the same as wearing a sundress and making sourdough. 0.72

01:13:06.640 And again, we have to know what time it is. 0.76

01:13:08.060 my thought though, just for the record on the founders thing. So I ended, I did end up talking

01:13:12.860 to Tom Askell and we had a great conversation. Uh, I honor him as a spiritual, you know, um,

01:13:18.980 older man. Um, he's worthy of honor and, uh, and there's a ton that I can learn from him.

01:13:24.300 We had a great conversation. We agreed probably 98%. And, um, and, and I've kind of, you know,

01:13:29.840 done my best to restrain myself this last week, you know, as, as there's been pushback on Twitter

01:13:35.800 and those kinds of things.

01:13:37.520 I'm trying to be a little bit careful about it.

01:13:40.180 So a couple of disclaimers that I want to say is,

01:13:41.720 one, I just don't have anything negative to say about founders.

01:13:45.520 And if I did, I honestly, I would just shut up and keep it to myself.

01:13:48.500 Or talk to them.

01:13:49.260 Or talk to them, exactly.

01:13:51.320 Because I actually am able to talk to Tom.

01:13:54.120 I don't have a relationship with Allie, but I at least have Tom's phone number.

01:14:00.280 I could reach out.

01:14:02.020 And I did, and he did.

01:14:03.880 and so uh it was great uh good conversation and um and you know one of the things that tom's uh

01:14:09.840 said that i i thought was helpful he said well joel like i mean you know he's like you've been

01:14:14.900 taken out of context uh context with clips you know that go viral and and not necessarily in

01:14:20.380 your favor you know that everybody thinks i'm a misogynist and um and you know and then i i get

01:14:26.120 the pushback from 750 000 people and after careful you know consideration i decide to become worse

01:14:31.020 uh you know but and he's like you've been taken out of context you know like where you have a

01:14:36.600 whole sermon but then one portion you know and this thing happens um and you know it's it's one

01:14:42.300 clip and i think people were missing the context of the the full panel founders and i and i heard

01:14:47.900 that and understood that and i said i hear what you're saying um and then you know my response

01:14:51.900 was i i think i i actually think um i'm not arguing for just the clip um to get less context

01:14:57.060 i want to get even more context and and i think that the the large uh the big context is not the

01:15:03.460 hour-long uh panel i think the big context is the last nine months um uh if you know i i talked to

01:15:10.340 michael foster um uh yesterday about it a little bit you know and i told him you know uh you know

01:15:16.860 michael if you had said this because michael has has said things like this and i think it's wise

01:15:21.040 and helpful um like michael has told me and he's also said these things publicly that um you know

01:15:26.340 like a woman, a woman can start, you know, I'm a head covering guy. Michael's not a head covering

01:15:29.940 guy, but he would, you know, he would never push against it or make it a big deal. Um, but Michael

01:15:34.560 said, you know, with some of the, uh, the head covering movement, you know, uh, that, uh, all

01:15:39.260 it takes is, um, two hours to read a couple articles on head covering and then show up the

01:15:44.520 next Sunday morning wearing a head covering. Um, but you can wear a head covering on the Lord's

01:15:48.980 day and still be um a total uh boss babe jerk to your husband you know it like it there's nothing 0.99

01:15:56.880 submissive about your heart your attitude your behavior your speech um you can be a boss babe 1.00

01:16:02.520 uh head covering chick you know which is completely a misnomer but but entirely possible

01:16:09.120 and i would argue in some sense prevalent um but um the point is uh that you know it could take

01:16:16.820 you know two hours um you know to to change in your position and put on a head covering but two

01:16:21.680 years to change your heart um and i think that that's you know if michael foster who has said

01:16:28.940 things like that if if he said that um my point is it's not what was said it's who was saying it

01:16:35.420 and that's that's that's been my position is that if you look at the context not of the hour-long

01:16:41.160 panel but the context of the last nine months and some of the twitter battles and a few of

01:16:46.500 uh ali's podcast um you know i i think i think the problem is is not what was said but who it's

01:16:52.960 coming from um so so you know if you if you just take the words in that particular clip then it's

01:16:59.900 like you know cosplaying with with sourdough or cosplaying with you know being domestic feminine

01:17:05.980 trad wife these kinds of things um can you can you cosplay meaning can you do this outward

01:17:12.500 um, aesthetic is the word she used aesthetic. Can you, can you create a veneer and outward

01:17:18.920 physical veneer, um, while still in your heart being, um, entirely a feminist and not submissive

01:17:25.000 to your husband or to the Lord whatsoever? Um, yes. And amen. Um, I've said those things.

01:17:29.840 Michael Foster said those things, um, but no pushback. The reason I think, um, that Allie

01:17:36.220 got some pushback uh this last week was uh not because uh the context helps her but because

01:17:43.380 the whole context yeah not one hour channel but nine month uh nine months of of twitter and and

01:17:50.420 podcast episodes the the full context hurts her because because if it's just the clip and there

01:17:57.100 is no context then it's like well she could just be talking about the danger of being led into the

01:18:01.740 trad wife life by a Mormon whose husband, you know, whose in-laws own JetBlue and has millions

01:18:08.960 of dollars and a $30,000 stove and makes it look way easier than it'll ever be for you because 1.00

01:18:13.540 she's actually super duper rich. And she may be teaching you sourdough, but on the side, 0.97

01:18:18.100 she may have little snippets that come from her worldview of Mormonism that lead you spiritually

01:18:21.880 into danger. And that's a good warning. That's a good warning. The reason I think there was 0.98

01:18:27.680 pushback is because uh guys who are in the patriarchal you know reformed christian

01:18:34.940 tribe sphere world neck of the woods whatever you want to call it um we know that um that that

01:18:44.540 ali has opposed us that you know that she had a podcast a while back where she she word for word

01:18:49.960 quoted a portion of my sermon that uh part of the reason i went viral with the whole you know 0.80

01:18:55.080 a husband should manage, a husband has actual authority. My whole position is that headship

01:19:02.960 means something, that it's not ethereal, it's not just the 17th dimension, but it's not just

01:19:08.960 in theory, but it's in practice. And so the husband being head of his wife, that's a real

01:19:12.940 authority and that he has a responsibility and he has the authority and right to provide for his 0.75

01:19:21.300 wife and protect his wife. And that includes, um, those influences over the whole thing we've been

01:19:26.480 talking about today. Um, and that could include, uh, saying, Hey, uh, sweetheart, I don't want you

01:19:31.160 to read this book right now. And you know, that whole clip where I went viral, uh, part of the

01:19:35.520 reason I went viral is because Allie took that. Um, and, and she didn't name me, but she did quote

01:19:40.260 me, um, uh, that word for word, that portion of my sermon and people were like, I can't believe

01:19:46.200 this, this terrible, terrible guy. Whereas, you know, in the clip, all I said was, uh, we'll read

01:19:50.880 this book later. I'm not going to read it right now. We'll read this book later. The book in

01:19:54.280 question was a book actually about paedo-baptism. And my point was to say, not that paedo-baptism

01:19:58.820 is witchcraft or anything like that. There's nothing like that in the citation in the clip.

01:20:03.280 But my point was, it is not advantageous for a married couple, for their marriage,

01:20:07.640 and for me as a senior pastor of a credo-baptist 1689 church. At the church level and at the home

01:20:13.600 level, it is not advantageous for my wife to privately read a book. My wife has read dozens

01:20:19.000 of books by paedo-baptist by joel beakey by doug wilson that's about parenting and because they're

01:20:24.800 paedo-baptist it's parenting through a westminster covenantal framework but this particular book was

01:20:29.640 uh it wasn't how to parent um and it happens to be written by paedo-baptist and so it's going to

01:20:34.820 have some different covenant theology in the framework of parenting uh no this was a book

01:20:39.100 specifically about persuading people of the doctrine of paedo-baptism it is not advantageous

01:20:44.760 for my wife to be privately persuaded in her own devotions to the paedo-baptist argument

01:20:52.900 to where she now has her conscience. Right now, her conscience is clear. But had that happened,

01:20:59.660 her conscience would then be burning within her that her own husband is sinning by depriving and

01:21:07.020 withholding her own children from the sacrament of baptism. And he's sinning not only against her

01:21:13.700 and her children, our family, but dozens of other families at the church corporate level

01:21:19.580 as a senior pastor who is withholding from members in the church this teaching and this

01:21:26.420 sacrament for children.

01:21:28.880 And so my whole point was to say, one, I've read plenty of books on pedo-baptism.

01:21:34.260 So it's not like I'm just ignoring the issue.

01:21:36.840 I said, you know what, before I read my 14th book on this, this book, because this will

01:21:42.560 be the book uh before i read my 14th book on this uh there's a couple other things i'm working on

01:21:47.020 right um and and i'm finite um and i only have so much time in the day and i can only read so many

01:21:52.040 things so uh don't read this without me you're not going to read this without me um i'm your husband

01:21:57.520 and and she was fine with this this was a three second conversation there was no pushback because

01:22:02.120 my wife loves the lord she loves me and she's submissive she's a feminine domestic woman uh

01:22:06.580 who fears the lord uh like like sarah calling her her husband lord first peter chapter three

01:22:11.480 my wife embodies that um yeah beautifully so there was no problem um my wife didn't have a problem

01:22:17.700 with the sermon uh ali had a problem with the sermon right right on behalf of the woman right

01:22:22.480 right i'm very concerned for my wife and for my daughters uh but my wife and daughters are happy

01:22:27.700 um uh she's not so anyways uh all that being said the point was i didn't even say uh no forever but

01:22:33.960 But I did say with authority, hey, don't read this right now, and we'll read it together

01:22:38.800 later.

01:22:39.420 It may be three years from now.

01:22:40.760 We'll read it.

01:22:41.340 And then the last thing that upset people, I think this was one of the things that upset

01:22:44.520 Allie, was I said, you know, there'll be good arguments, I'm sure.

01:22:48.760 There'll be things I agree with, things I disagree with, but you're not going to be

01:22:54.720 persuaded of this without me.

01:22:56.640 If we become Paedo-Baptist, we're going to become Paedo-Baptist together at the same

01:23:02.040 time when i decide that we become pedo-baptists and you are not going to and here is the phrase

01:23:06.940 outpace me right now i think i'm willing to concede and and i think this is i think i'm

01:23:14.520 honestly conceding more than i probably should but i'm willing to concede 50 of the problem

01:23:19.340 was me using that phrase you won't outpace me without any other clarifications all right so

01:23:26.520 here's the clarification i'll do it in 15 seconds the clarification was you're not going to outpace

01:23:30.980 me in this. That's it. That's a clear fit. My wife has outpaced, she was an RN before we had

01:23:36.700 a house filled with young children. Now she's a full-time mom, stay at home with the children. 1.00

01:23:42.140 But my wife has long outpaced me in medicine, long outpaced me. So with vaccine, here's the

01:23:47.560 whole idea of a complementary relationship because I'm patriarchal, but we do believe men and women

01:23:52.360 complement one another. Part of what makes it complementary is the division of labor.

01:23:56.720 it's not just that the husband and wife do all the same tasks at the same time together so that

01:24:02.000 you have two people doing a job instead of one no it's also um and i would argue it's more this

01:24:07.440 than it is that it's the uh the power of dividing and conquering so um the idea of the husband

01:24:13.140 working out of the home for protection and provision while the wife works within the home

01:24:17.020 both work but in different space that's that is a division of labor so uh when it comes to um to 1.00

01:24:22.780 feeding the kids. And when it comes to recipes and cooking and health and vaccines, that was

01:24:28.580 another thing that I ultimately bear the responsibility to the head of our home. But

01:24:32.340 what I did was I was able to delegate, just like a captain of a ship doesn't have to swab the deck

01:24:38.520 and steer, right? He can't do everything, but he has responsibility and authority over everything.

01:24:44.920 So he's responsible for everything, but he's not personally doing everything. He's going to assign

01:24:49.960 different roles and tasks. So when my wife, knowing that she is an RN, when all the stuff 0.50

01:24:55.640 started happening with COVID, I commissioned my wife to study into that. She knew better than I

01:25:02.680 did what books to read. She already had a working foundation of knowledge. So my wife has far

01:25:06.760 outpaced me on vaccines and praise God. And I've been able to trust, right? The proverb says that

01:25:14.440 with a godly wife, her husband's heart trusts her. So like I trust my wife. So she did this

01:25:20.400 research on vaccines and was able to give me the, okay, so now you look into this for the next two

01:25:28.020 weeks and then brief me on it. So she briefed me on it. So I didn't have to do 80 hours of reading

01:25:34.820 or whatever she ended up doing over that season of life because I had other things that I was

01:25:40.420 doing but i'm able to get the condensed brief briefing version of that 80 hours and then make

01:25:45.280 the decision for our family and the decision in a nutshell because this isn't about vaccines but

01:25:49.560 uh we're not we're not going to do it so uh you know that's you know not maybe not every single

01:25:55.540 vaccine but but by and large um you know if uh if your wife is not a woman of the night and and

01:26:01.120 your your kid wasn't born in a bathhouse then you probably don't need you know some of the hepatitis

01:26:06.040 you know whatever mambo jumbo so anyways but my point is my wife has outpaced not just outpaced 0.74

01:26:11.260 me she has lapped me like 40 times on on uh health and uh and medicine and vaccines and diet and

01:26:19.500 because that's part of how we complement one another is a division of labor so when i said

01:26:25.060 you will not outpace me the obvious i thought but i'm willing to concede partially i won't concede

01:26:30.480 entirely because that would be false humility which is not actual humility that's just pride

01:26:34.620 plus lying. And so I don't want to be proud and a liar. So I'm not going to concede entirely,

01:26:39.620 but I will partially concede and say that last portion of you will not outpace me.

01:26:44.380 It would have been better probably to use a different phrase of words because it allowed

01:26:48.220 the feminist, and they are feminists, and I'm going to come back to that. It allowed the 1.00

01:26:51.980 feminist who are not good faith listeners to assume that a husband's wife will not outpace 0.75

01:26:58.160 him in anything, which was not what I said, but it did leave room for it to be assumed 0.96

01:27:04.640 that that's what I was saying. I think that you have to have a bad faith, uncharitable

01:27:10.080 posture of heart on that particular issue of biblical patriarchy, aka you are a feminist, 0.98

01:27:16.080 at least a soft feminist to take that assumption. But I allowed for my opponents on this topic

01:27:23.180 to take the bad faith interpretation. So I'm willing to say, I wish I hadn't used that phrase

01:27:28.140 because of course I meant outpace me in this area, because it's not helpful, again, for the

01:27:33.620 wife of a senior pastor of a Baptist church with unbaptized young children to think that her

01:27:40.020 husband is sinning against her, her children, and all the other families in the church by virtue of

01:27:44.800 being a credo-baptist. That's just not good for marriage. That just leaves room for there to be

01:27:50.760 a wedge and division in the marriage. So if we're going to take the journey and read the 14th book

01:27:55.140 on pedo-baptism. Let's read this one together. So all that, stand by it 100%. You will not

01:28:00.840 outpace me. I just wish I had said, in this area. Because in this area, it's just going to be room.

01:28:06.360 So I'm willing to concede on that. Aside from that, where I would like to see others concede

01:28:11.000 is to say, I was bothered by this because one, I misunderstood the outpace me part. Thank you,

01:28:19.120 for that clarification. Your lack of clarity on that phrase, outpace me, that's part of what

01:28:24.840 bother me but i'm also joel you were willing to concede and say that that wasn't the best

01:28:28.720 framing of words and i'm willing to concede and say i was also bothered because i'm a raging feminist

01:28:34.700 who larps around as a complementarian but when it comes down to it um what do i mean by being

01:28:42.720 a complementarian and believing a male headship nothing yeah what is male headship for most

01:28:49.200 complementarians not all there are some narrow complementarians but for most especially broad

01:28:54.060 at the end of the day take it out of the realm of theory in the ivory tower and put it in the

01:28:58.700 realm of practice what does male headship mean for the broad soft complementarian what does what is

01:29:06.080 it good for absolutely nothing it means nothing at the end of the day um your employer and here's

01:29:12.200 the thing they're fine with male headship um it just needs to be any male except your husband

01:29:18.420 right so your male employer can tell you what time to show up what to do dress code what to wear 1.00

01:29:23.500 right that male civil magistrate he can tell you to put a dirty diaper on your face for three years 0.96

01:29:28.180 but your husband if he said hey sweetheart i don't want you to wear yoga pants when you go 0.99

01:29:33.680 to the grocery store in public because it's literally the same as painting your legs it's

01:29:38.220 just paint it is it is skin tight um uh then all of a sudden well he shouldn't be telling you how

01:29:43.960 to dress you know or hey sweetheart um if you're if you're going to read a book that is designed

01:29:49.120 It's not about parenting. 0.60

01:29:50.220 This one is designed to convince you that children or believers should be baptized in 1.00

01:29:55.360 infancy. 0.61

01:29:56.480 And I'm a credo-baptist pastor, and more importantly, your credo-baptist husband and

01:30:00.780 credo-baptist father for our household.

01:30:03.040 If you're going to read that, and the whole book is designed to persuade you to where

01:30:08.500 your conscience would now be turned on this particular topic against me, your husband,

01:30:13.260 let's take this journey together.

01:30:14.840 These are perfectly reasonable things.

01:30:16.400 any theologian any and not just theologian any um average christian in the pews and until just

01:30:24.460 very recently in the past few decades would have no idea like they would listen to the clip of

01:30:30.040 that sermon that i and they'd have no idea what why what's the fuss what's what's what's everybody

01:30:34.780 so my point is again it's not um i i would agree with guys who are saying well joel you don't like

01:30:41.700 being taken out of context don't take this uh portion of the founders thing out of context

01:30:45.920 with Allie. And I would say, you're right. And so I'm going to do you one better. Not only will I

01:30:50.580 put it in the context of the hour-long panel and not just the clip, but I'll put it into the context

01:30:55.180 of the last nine months. I'll put it into the full context. And see, that's the problem. The

01:30:59.320 context doesn't help you. It hurts you. The context is what's hurting Allie. It's not out of context

01:31:05.760 that's hurting her. It's the full context that's hurting her. People weren't born yesterday. People

01:31:10.520 have a memory, you know, the memory hole gaslighting doesn't work. People remember her 0.90

01:31:16.680 going after me. They remember her going after Eric Kong. They remember her going after biblical

01:31:22.340 patriarchy. So then when she says cosplaying trad wife and the patriarchal reformed world 0.56

01:31:29.720 assumes that that includes not only ballerina, farm girl, Mormon, $30,000 stove person, 0.88

01:31:37.580 But that also includes a head-covering girl in a Reformed Baptist church, like Joel's wife and the female members of my church.

01:31:46.720 That's why they take offense, because they hear that and they think, for Allie, based off of the last nine months, who is she addressing?

01:31:54.200 It's not just the trad wife TikToker.

01:31:57.600 It's the Reformed female Christian who holds the biblical patriarchy. 0.92

01:32:04.080 And why do we think that that's in her purview, that that's included, that person?

01:32:08.940 Because she said so multiple times.

01:32:12.240 I'll just add one thing, two things on there real quick, and this will be my last thing

01:32:15.740 that I say probably today.

01:32:17.800 I was talking about this issue with my wife who doesn't listen to podcasts at all.

01:32:22.460 Actually, she never stops moving.

01:32:24.580 But her sister will send her podcast clips and things like that.

01:32:27.780 So I mentioned the whole thing with Allie, Beth, Stuckey, and my wife said, 0.99

01:32:32.920 I've even heard her say she does not like to cook and have to do meals at home. And this is my wife

01:32:39.340 who does not listen to her podcast, but knows that this is kind of like, it's, that all of us have

01:32:46.040 things that we are commanded to do that we don't prefer to do that we do out of obedience. So

01:32:50.000 praise the Lord that she would still go and do that. But, you know, my wife's point was,

01:32:54.860 we all know that this is an area where Allie doesn't want to be the traditional model of 1.00

01:33:03.200 cooking and cleaning and doing those things all day. Second thing I want to say is about 0.99

01:33:07.700 your comment that Michael Foster made. And I understand what both of you are saying. However,

01:33:12.500 when especially an adult takes on a new practice, it feels like cosplaying for a long time.

01:33:19.380 That's a great point. 1.00

01:33:20.040 And so if that woman who's a raging feminist starts wearing a head covering to church for 0.97

01:33:24.860 two years, you don't think that's going to have an effect on her heart? 0.99

01:33:27.920 Yes, it is. 1.00

01:33:29.420 And the women who are cosplaying as sourdough wives on Instagram, actually, that is doing 1.00

01:33:35.320 something in them.

01:33:36.340 And the women who are following them and trying to do that sort of thing too, yes, that is 0.99

01:33:41.400 changing their perspective and their pattern and even their beliefs about life.

01:33:44.720 Like, I think that we minimize the need for social pressure to push us towards God-ordained

01:33:53.260 natural rules of men and women, even if it's not necessarily coming from a perfectly dot

01:33:58.720 your T's, or dot your I's, cross your T's, theologically solid woman.

01:34:02.840 And yes, we should be on guard always about all things, but I'm of the perspective that

01:34:08.040 we need people in society pushing trad wife things, even if they're not completely solid.

01:34:13.880 Yeah, I agree.

01:34:14.740 I said on Twitter,

01:34:16.440 grifting in the right direction

01:34:17.760 is better than drifting in the wrong direction.

01:34:20.040 That's a good turn of phrase.

01:34:21.440 I'd rather grift in the right direction

01:34:23.240 than drift in the wrong direction.

01:34:25.120 I also said in the sermon last week,

01:34:27.380 and I've said it a couple of times,

01:34:29.280 whether it be Christian nationalism

01:34:30.580 or biblical patriarchy

01:34:31.640 or any of these things that appear novel

01:34:33.720 that really aren't throughout church history,

01:34:35.880 but are novel in our generation

01:34:37.060 because we've gotten so off the rails.

01:34:39.820 I've said the phrase,

01:34:41.120 you got to LARP before you can fly.

01:34:43.140 And the reality is that anytime somebody as an individual or corporately, a society as a whole, has gotten way off the rails in order to start trying to get back on track, initially, at least initially, it's going to look silly, right?

01:34:57.980 If a guy who's 400 pounds, all of a sudden God gets a hold of him, God gets a hold of his heart before cardiac arrest, you know, and convicts him and he gets a gym membership and he's going to start eating healthy and he's going to start working out.

01:35:11.500 if you're in the gym that day and here's you know joe bob's first day in the gym in 20 years and

01:35:18.620 he's 400 pounds and you're witnessing him trying to do his his first set of sit-ups like yeah i'd

01:35:25.380 be really easy to uh to to smirk you know or maybe even out of out of the corner where he can't see

01:35:31.440 it you know that you'd be so malicious and and and just heartless that you would try to catch it on

01:35:37.460 your phone a video and and embarrass him publicly by putting it on social media and say and and you

01:35:42.660 might be you know tempted to use the caption uh look at this larper or look at this grifter or

01:35:47.480 look at this like um yeah repentance when there's been lots of rebellion initial repentance paul

01:35:56.120 washer talks about the kernels of repentance um you know when there's been um when there's been 0.87

01:36:02.440 massive rebellion the initial kernels of repentance will always look um a little silly

01:36:10.420 yeah um it'll always look like uh larping but that's that's what change looks like in the

01:36:16.960 beginning when you've gotten way off the the rails so then what would it look like for a society

01:36:22.400 that has been steeped right it's not just like we need a little bit of a course correction

01:36:27.400 no we have gone way off the rails for decades arguably over a century in in feminism we have 0.94

01:36:34.860 a society that worships women we would rather murder a million babies every year right every 1.00

01:36:41.240 year every year then um then actually say that women could do something wrong and require some 1.00

01:36:48.020 kind of consequence or penalty that's how much feminism if you're ever wondering well how feminist 1.00

01:36:52.620 are we look to abortion right um and abortion speaks for the record it speaks to feminism it 1.00

01:36:58.040 also speaks to men in terms of of sexual lust and perversion all these different things sex without

01:37:03.420 consequence um all that but the point is we are way off the rails and so if we're looking at you

01:37:09.500 know a well over a century of of feminism to the point where we're now um steeped in it then what

01:37:17.060 would it look like to um to repent of feminism uh to actually repent of it um well it probably

01:37:26.580 is going in in our society today with our culture today with social media and with this and that

01:37:31.600 and the other well it's it probably will look um a little silly yeah but that doesn't mean that 0.99

01:37:38.300 it's all fake that doesn't mean are there going to be some grifters that are going to try to profit

01:37:42.500 off of that here's a trend i'm gonna get in the mix with my ticket sure they'll always be grifters

01:37:47.680 always um but but but if if we think that right now um that that's what we should should address

01:37:57.480 you know is is you know what um and and the last thing i'll say on that is just um

01:38:01.980 so much i've said this many times but if you want to find find the common denominator of where

01:38:08.900 christians especially certainly the world and the rainbow jihad but but even christians even

01:38:14.100 reformed christians sadly uh where they're going to get offended what what's going to be the next

01:38:17.900 thing on twitter that'll offend them i can i can tell you what it is it'll have something to do

01:38:21.740 with nature so whether it's uh whether it's uh twitter accounts that are saying men should work

01:38:26.860 out right and then all of a sudden reformed twitter comes out and says uh that's vanity or

01:38:32.060 that's this godly men should be godly not strong you know physical training is of some value but

01:38:38.080 righteousness. So men working out, or men having a gun, or women wearing more dresses and less

01:38:45.200 pants, looking more feminine, or women making sourdough, or Christian nationalism, actually

01:38:50.640 having a Christian government. Well, there's no such thing as a Christian government. You can't 0.99

01:38:55.440 baptize and catechize a government. They're only Christian individuals. But my point is, 0.98

01:39:00.440 what do all those have in common? What they all have in common is nature. There is a war right

01:39:04.920 now against nature, and sadly, I think Christians have bought into it. Soft forms, not to the level 1.00

01:39:10.700 of heresy, these are still brothers and sisters in Christ, but I would say, you know, a soft

01:39:15.200 Gnosticism. It's a soft Gnosticism, it's a soft pietism, it's an over-spiritualizing

01:39:24.200 of everything to where the material world doesn't matter, which makes perfect sense when you think

01:39:29.300 the majority of evangelicals are dispensationalists, they're pre-millennial, you know, what does it

01:39:34.600 matter. The world's going to burst into the flames by next Thursday anyway. So the earthly,

01:39:40.300 the physical, the tangible, the practical is of no value. But that's not the way that the Bible

01:39:44.520 speaks. And so I think that that's part of what we need to do right now as Christians is we need

01:39:50.540 to say, no, Wilson has said this, but theology should come out of our fingertips. It's very,

01:39:56.380 very practical. And so last thing, and I'm not trying to pick on her, but another thing that

01:40:01.440 during that early on when you know she quoted my sermon i started going viral and everybody you

01:40:06.280 know was you know look at this misogynist he's the most dangerous person in the world well you know

01:40:10.800 i somebody sent me another episode that she did where she was addressing people who said you know

01:40:15.980 the highest call of a um a christian woman is um to pursue um and and to exemplify godly motherhood

01:40:24.560 and she said no it's not um the highest call you know so she used that said absolutely not

01:40:29.540 the highest call of any christian whether they be you know a child or an adult or a male or a female

01:40:34.980 woman or man um is and then she quoted the westminster shorter catechism the first question

01:40:39.740 is to glorify god and enjoy him forever and you know and i found myself almost shouting at my

01:40:46.880 phone the podcast you know but it's like um uh yeah glorify god and enjoy him how how and see

01:40:55.080 here's the thing when it comes exactly when it comes to biblical commands we have as evangelicals

01:41:00.880 with our soft gnosticism and our pietism we have bought into the lie um that that obedience isn't

01:41:07.780 um it's generic that all christ's commands are generic and at some level that all these commands

01:41:13.440 are androgynous that his commands have what i mean by that they have no particular um physical

01:41:19.620 outward manifestation or practical usefulness that would be specific to a person's station of

01:41:29.220 life, to whether you're a father or a mother, man, woman, child or adult, master, slave. Look at

01:41:36.780 Ephesians, right? This is what the egalitarians do. And I'm not saying that Al isn't egalitarian. 1.00

01:41:40.840 I would say soft. I think it is soft egalitarianism. I think it's rooted in egalitarianism.

01:41:45.460 but I know that she is complementarian. Again, I would say, what is a complementarian? What does

01:41:50.440 it mean? Nothing. So that's my opinion. But Ephesians 5 is what the hard egalitarians will

01:41:57.540 quote all the time. The end of the chapter talks about mutual submission, right? That we're all

01:42:02.960 called to submit to one another in reverence for Christ. So in our ultimate submission to Christ,

01:42:08.440 the church, the body made up of all different believers, men, women, adults, children, masters, 0.64

01:42:13.040 slaves we all should submit to each other and the egalitarians will say there it is case closed

01:42:18.820 and they'll forget you know uh you know uh the the next you know the next two chapters um that

01:42:26.040 that okay what about a little bit later in ephesians 5 uh husbands right and now wives

01:42:32.520 and then now we're in um we're in ephesians 6 and it's uh children and parents and masters

01:42:39.600 and slaves. So yes, the call is mutual submission ultimately stemming to one another, the body,

01:42:48.480 ultimately stemming from our submission to Christ. But then the question is, okay, but now visibly,

01:42:53.400 practically, outwardly, what does that look like? Well, what it looks like is for a wife to submit 0.97

01:42:59.160 to her husband, but for a husband to love and lead his wife. What it looks like, and what I always do

01:43:04.520 with the egalitarian in my pastoral counseling, if ever, you know, there's a woman in marriage

01:43:08.580 counseling, who's like, well, and she's citing Ephesians 5 and saying, well, I don't have to

01:43:12.560 submit to my husband because I believe in mutual submission. I'll say, well, okay, so that is the

01:43:17.880 headline. View this like an article, like a study paper. That's the headline. Mutual submission to

01:43:25.180 one another in stemming from ultimate submission to Christ. That's the headline. And now here are

01:43:30.420 each of the examples and case studies, okay? If we want to use your hermeneutics, your exegesis,

01:43:36.480 then um you can't just apply it with husband and wife that comes later you have to apply it with

01:43:41.400 the next uh citation which is uh parent and child so um mutual submission and for you you think that

01:43:48.500 means practically an equality egalitarian submission to commands um and and so you're

01:43:54.880 going to apply that to your marriage but you would have to apply that uh mutually submitting to one

01:43:58.760 another out of reverence for christ to ephesians 6 there's no chapter breaks in the text that's

01:44:03.180 been added in for helpfulness, but in the, in the divine text. So you would have to say that if you

01:44:08.260 go and tell your child to clean his room and he says, no, you would have to say, touche. Submit

01:44:15.660 to one another. I'll clean it for you. Right. I'll clean. Yeah. I'll clean it for you. Like,

01:44:19.180 let's just, you have to apply it. And then with masters and slaves, I understand we're bothered

01:44:22.580 by that, but apply that principle to employers and employees. It's no, no, that's obviously not

01:44:29.700 what the apostle was saying. And so, my point is, when we get into biblical commands, Christ's

01:44:34.780 commands in the Old Testament and especially in the New, these commands are not generic. They are

01:44:41.360 overarching principled commands, but the particular visible outward expression of obedience to the

01:44:48.800 commands looks different based off of station. So, it looks different for a husband versus a wife,

01:44:56.760 a child versus an adult, an employer versus an employee, a civil magistrate versus a citizen.

01:45:03.320 We know this. Of course we know this. So what is the highest calling of a woman? Well,

01:45:08.640 it's to glorify God and enjoy him forever. Great. How? How? Right? This is the highest call of a

01:45:15.560 man, to glorify God and enjoy him forever. How do men and women, in terms of outward obedience

01:45:22.420 in practice, get out of your pietistic theory and get into practice for a moment in terms of daily

01:45:28.320 life, application, theology applied, does a husband seeking to glorify God and enjoy him

01:45:38.360 forever practically look? Is it supposed to look the same as a woman, a wife, glorifying God and

01:45:44.880 enjoying him forever? And if we look at the Bible with even a cursory glance, the answer is a

01:45:49.980 resounding no and so that's my whole point you know so when ali in that clip separates biblical 0.96

01:45:55.100 womanhood from sourdough she said well that's not biblical womanhood and i would agree biblical

01:45:59.360 womanhood cannot be so narrowed and truncated to where it's it's uh exclusively making sourdough

01:46:04.560 of course it's not but my problem when people do this um owen strand just put out a podcast today

01:46:11.700 it was basically the same thing when when people do this uh the the problem is uh that it doesn't

01:46:18.340 answer the question okay if it's not that then what is it because right now the world um we we've

01:46:24.980 we've done uh the the the evangelical church has been steeped in the ethereal theoretical theology

01:46:31.820 in the ivory tower for for decades people are begging as a local pastor with real flesh and

01:46:36.920 blood members in my church they're asking all the time they're saying they're asking for practical

01:46:41.280 examples what do i do pastor what do i and they're not asking what do i do uh for justification

01:46:47.220 salvation right they it's not it's not heresy they know we are justified not by what we we do

01:46:53.140 but what christ has already done we're justified by grace alone through faith alone and christ alone

01:46:56.820 but they're asking as a response now now that i have been born again by free grace as a new

01:47:02.200 creation in christ jesus as a response of gratitude for the salvation i freely receive through faith

01:47:07.120 and not works how do i now do good works in keeping with repentance how shall we then live

01:47:12.640 and not just theoretically live, but practically live?

01:47:16.220 What does that look like?

01:47:17.520 And the moment you begin to answer that question,

01:47:19.800 here's the inescapable reality,

01:47:21.400 if you're sticking to the Bible,

01:47:22.980 the practical, visible expressions of the Christian life

01:47:26.340 look different for men and women.

01:47:28.700 They do.

01:47:29.460 They do.

01:47:30.160 And so you can say biblical womanhood is not sourdough

01:47:32.640 in some dresses, and that's fine.

01:47:35.620 But again, that clip standing alone is not the problem.

01:47:38.480 But when you pair that with the last nine months

01:47:40.300 and saying, well, biblical womanhood is also not motherhood,

01:47:44.380 because that was said before.

01:47:45.520 It's not being a godly mother.

01:47:46.640 It's glorifying God and enjoying him forever.

01:47:49.000 What that does is it reinforces within evangelicals

01:47:52.760 this idea that faithful Christianity is theoretical.

01:47:59.420 It's ethereal.

01:48:00.720 It's spiritual.

01:48:01.920 It's androgynous.

01:48:03.160 It's generic.

01:48:03.780 um it's um and that's part of why uh the world has gone to hell in a handbasket is because

01:48:11.800 you know like we we don't have theology applied nobody has any answers

01:48:17.280 supernaturalism comes in and says we'll give you something to do women

01:48:21.440 we'll give you something to do that's meaningful now we need to paint a better picture of what is

01:48:28.540 a meaningful life for women yeah yeah any final thoughts wes i know i just preached a sermon there

01:48:35.740 but no that was good um myself i think evangelical to evangelicalism we have to start

01:48:41.260 stop using women as the mouthpieces so you'll see like rosaria butterfield will put out a great book

01:48:45.820 and crossway will publish it but if you took any other man saying the same things about

01:48:50.200 homosexuality lust all these different things we never even see the light of day same thing

01:48:55.260 meg basham will say something on twitter and she's great william wolf will say the same thing 0.98

01:48:59.040 and he'll just have people like you're a christo fascist this or the other so it can be tempting

01:49:03.260 to have well let's have meg basham or let's have rosaria butterfield or we'll have ali best stuckey 0.97

01:49:07.540 do the talking to the trad wives she can say that and that's just we can't do that we can't give

01:49:12.600 into that men have to come up and say hey uh women uh if there is a concern maybe with the trad thing

01:49:18.220 um be aware that comparison is a thief of joy just don't be looking to someone that's a millionaire

01:49:23.400 and saying i really wish i had their lifestyle that should come from men not us putting up women

01:49:28.120 and speaking by proxy through them that's a yeah that's a good point we did the same thing with

01:49:32.160 ethnicity yeah right so like in 2020 and the battles with wokeness and all that kind of stuff

01:49:36.660 it was like like where can we find um a token black guy to say this right and praise god for

01:49:43.500 daryl harrison virgil walker uh praise god for votie bacham who was doing it like in 2012

01:49:48.040 Well, 2008 was like coining the phrase ethno-gnosticism.

01:49:52.780 You know what just clicked to me is men have been convinced

01:49:56.060 that we do not belong in the battle.

01:49:58.740 And if the battle is gonna happen,

01:50:00.220 it has to be the right looking man

01:50:02.620 with a right looking representative.

01:50:04.840 And Joel, I'll just say,

01:50:06.020 being at the church the last couple of years,

01:50:07.320 one of the things that I've learned

01:50:08.200 is that we belong in the battle, right?

01:50:10.020 I might not be the best fighter

01:50:12.220 and maybe there's someone back there

01:50:13.860 who's got better sword skills.

01:50:15.500 Doesn't matter.

01:50:16.280 I belong in the battle.

01:50:17.080 we belong in this battle right yep and you have to you just have to you're just going to have to

01:50:25.160 take some punches but it can't but you're right west like it can't just be um okay uh there's uh

01:50:31.840 you know like like right now like our nation is racist against white people right that's just a

01:50:37.280 fact it's just a fact um but but if i have to have samuel say come on the show to say it you

01:50:44.640 know and i like samuel yeah you know but like if no i can just say that yeah i i can just say that

01:50:49.740 and and until until we just say it until men lead and i don't and people are gonna say he means white

01:50:55.500 men no i just i just mean men men need to lead and in our country because there's a lot of white

01:51:01.620 guys and then yeah it's predominantly going to be a lot of white men leading um but but the point is

01:51:06.200 um if you always have to find the the token minority to represent your that's that that has

01:51:13.120 been the conservative platform the gop republican like that's just what they always yeah you're like

01:51:18.880 like i mean let's be honest trump he hasn't announced his vp but it'll either be a woman

01:51:23.120 or or a black guy very likely or an indian guy or an indian guy yeah of course i prefer him for

01:51:29.680 you know maybe press secretary you know something like that uh but anyways but you know that's just

01:51:33.820 like we've come to expect it it's like the unspoken rules you know and um but yeah i think

01:51:39.700 just men saying so hey i've been seeing this trad wife thing and uh you know what on the whole 1.00

01:51:45.400 first and foremost let it be said great like seriously 130 years of feminism like this is 0.91

01:51:53.180 great this is a step in the right direction some of them are grifting good what did paul say about

01:51:57.880 grifters whether by false motives or by pure the gospel like it's a true principle baked into the

01:52:03.480 fabric of the world that god created praise god if someone's doing it to make a buck and they 0.51

01:52:07.880 don't actually believe it but it persuades a bunch of other young women to to be more domestic great 1.00

01:52:12.420 kids great home yeah yeah and to say that well this is just the female equivalency of the red 1.00

01:52:17.720 pill you know like on one hand you have sundresses and sourdough on the other you have uh andrew

01:52:22.880 tate uh who you know in pornography and being a pimp nope that's a false dichotomy that is a joke

01:52:28.400 um if you make that comparison in in gmi you're just not gonna make it i don't even you know

01:52:33.800 sweetheart god bless your heart uh so so do all that and then say in exactly what you said west

01:52:38.680 in this as as you're pursuing um godly feminine domestic beauty which is good and pleasing in

01:52:47.760 the lord's sight a woman who is gentle and quiet she's not feisty she's not a boss babe the woman

01:52:53.100 who is beautiful that's right the woman who is beautiful in the sight of god is not a feisty

01:52:58.740 woman. She's not. She is defined by a gentle and quiet spirit. That's what 1 Peter 3 says. She has 0.99

01:53:05.020 a gentle and quiet, she has the inward beauty of the heart, which is a quiet and gentle spirit.

01:53:10.320 And as we encourage our wives and our daughters to pursue that, will there be, because sin runs deep, 0.73

01:53:17.760 even among Christian women, a fight and contest for who can be the quietest and gentlest and 0.97

01:53:24.160 most domestic and most feminine and most sundressy and most sourdough. Sure. And we can address that, 0.99

01:53:30.460 but not in any way that disparages it. There's a difference in addressing that

01:53:37.700 while absolutely promoting it versus addressing that. There's a way in saying, let's go this

01:53:46.040 direction and let's do it with as much godliness as possible versus saying, let's not go this

01:53:53.960 direction or some of you can but not all of us have to go this direction because godliness is

01:53:59.380 ethereal and it can't really be witnessed and and whatever godliness for women includes um it may

01:54:07.380 include sourdough and it may include sundresses but it certainly also includes five days a week

01:54:12.660 getting to go into the studio and podcast that's what it really is about i mean let's just be

01:54:18.840 honest, right here at the end, that's what it is. So, all right. Well, thanks for tuning in. God bless.

The NXR Podcast - February 29, 2024

THE LIVESTREAM - Witchcraft or Trad-wife： Which Way, Western Woman？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript