The NXR Podcast - THE SPECIAL - Catholic vs Protestant (w⧸Nick Fuentes) - EP6

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00:02:15.140 Radical Christian nationalist pastor,

00:02:18.280 Joel Webin.

00:02:19.100 Joel Webin?

00:02:19.940 Joel Webin.

00:02:20.480 I'm going to talk about Joel Webin.

00:02:22.240 Joel Webin is an accident. 0.96

00:02:40.100 nick um you're a papist right you're uh you're a worshiper of satan

00:02:50.200 you're catholic i'm protestant we have deep divides um i think there's so much that we

00:02:57.540 have in common and and i like to emphasize that uh because right now it's like when you're on

00:03:02.840 the ropes you know what i mean um the i know it's kind of gay but like elves and you know

00:03:08.980 and dwarfs, you know, if there's orcs at the gates, right. Okay. Let's, let's drop our, 0.74

00:03:14.200 our disagreements and we've got a country to save. Um, but it's, it's just not true. If we

00:03:20.360 pretend like there's not a divide, right? Like, so this is not the battle today, not, not the

00:03:26.500 quintessential one, but like people died over our differences. Yeah. It has been a battle and,

00:03:34.000 And I, if I had to bet, I think it will be one again.

00:03:38.720 It's just not a battle now because we have a more pressing threat.

00:03:42.360 But for that future time in the province of God, whenever it does happen, you know, when

00:03:46.400 we, when we beat the orcs and then we can afford as elves and dwarves, I'll let the

00:03:51.900 viewer decide which one of us is a dwarf, but you know, when, when we actually have

00:03:58.440 the luxury division. I've often said this, um, division is the luxury of victory. You have to

00:04:04.760 win first against your enemy before you can actually have disagreements with your friend.

00:04:10.020 Right. And I do consider you a friend and I consider Catholics friends. Um, so eventually

00:04:17.000 when we win with the orcs, we can afford to fight this battle. Uh, but what are some of the things

00:04:24.560 that we could tell young men ahead of time when that day comes you know like what what can we

00:04:30.860 prepare them with as they're thinking through how we need christian nationalism i think we like i

00:04:36.780 don't i don't think the west survives without it you can't have protestants and cat like someone

00:04:42.780 is going to be in charge someone's going to win right you know i hope whoever wins maybe like

00:04:47.880 doesn't imprison and drown you know the opposing team right like i like but someone's going to win

00:04:53.140 You don't all get to be in charge.

00:04:54.460 It's going to be Catholic or it's going to be Protestant.

00:04:57.980 What do you think it's going to be?

00:04:59.940 Who do you think is going to win?

00:05:01.860 Why?

00:05:02.920 And let's start there.

00:05:03.880 And then we can talk about the divide and some of the, you know, what are the differences,

00:05:06.860 those kinds of things and why it matters to have, you know, some semblance of peace right

00:05:10.700 now in this moment.

00:05:11.700 But first, because we were talking about this offline and I think some predictions are fun. 0.89

00:05:20.220 Do you think America is going to become Catholic?

00:05:23.140 It's difficult to say because, of course, Catholics are still in the minority and Catholicism is not really, at least at the time of the founding of the country, it's not part of our national character.

00:05:34.500 When you look at the Articles of Confederation, when you look at the Constitution and the whole premise, it's based on the Enlightenment, it's based on individualism.

00:05:45.500 uh the country does not have catholicism inherently in its dna literally in its charter

00:05:51.860 in its um in its founding and so you know i've gone back and forth with a lot of people on our

00:05:58.460 side about this and and they say it's sort of preposterous to say that america will one day

00:06:04.360 be traditional catholic because it's not even just catholic traditional catholic right uh because

00:06:10.780 even among the catholics so few actually adhere to all the catholic beliefs and that's everywhere

00:06:16.940 but especially here i'm glad you you brought that up because now you feel free to push back

00:06:22.160 because i could be wrong but in my in my perception of catholicism one of the ways that it differs

00:06:27.540 from protestants is historically when when catholics come in and and they're you know

00:06:33.120 they're you know colonizing this country or whatever catholicism seems to synchronize 0.85

00:06:39.360 and so like i think of haiti i was like oh well haiti's great and we can take all the haitians

00:06:44.880 you know because they're christian now you know like they're catholics um but uh before catholicism

00:06:50.920 you know came and settled you know haiti um the the national religion was voodoo and then you look

00:06:56.760 at the the particular vein of catholicism in haiti and it's like i still see a lot of voodoo

00:07:04.420 right still see a lot of you know mojo wojo you know weird kind of wacky stuff and then even like

00:07:10.260 mexico like catholicism in mexico seems to be far more superstitious right than catholicism in in

00:07:17.580 western european countries were here in america and and all that back to america the catholicism

00:07:23.840 in america because um it's not like settling haiti witchcraft or mexico and certain you know

00:07:30.800 characteristics there but in america because it was protestant even the catholics in america

00:07:35.880 it seems to be like a a particular kind of catholicism that is somewhat synchronized with

00:07:41.420 a protestant spirit it's different than like it's different than catholicism in in france you know

00:07:48.560 or italy right that's like more like high church like catholic here it's kind of like even the

00:07:53.720 Catholics have some built-in aversion to, you know, uh, the funny hats and the robes and the

00:08:01.160 tasks, like they're like, be, be a little bit more of a blue collar Catholic priest. Yeah. It has been

00:08:07.600 Americanized. And, uh, and there's also been just like everywhere, uh, sort of an apostasy where,

00:08:13.100 you know, cause I'm a Catholic and that sort of means something different to me, ironically,

00:08:20.060 than it means to other Catholics.

00:08:21.340 Because the whole point of Catholicity is the unity.

00:08:24.900 Right.

00:08:25.220 That we all have the same doctrine.

00:08:27.200 There's something common,

00:08:29.060 but among probably 95% of American Catholics,

00:08:32.680 I think that's even literally the number.

00:08:34.660 They don't, for example,

00:08:35.680 believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

00:08:38.240 They don't actually believe in transubstantiation,

00:08:41.160 which is a really big deal.

00:08:43.080 That's amazing.

00:08:43.660 And so, yeah, it's-

00:08:45.840 I love it.

00:08:47.220 For us, it's not so good.

00:08:48.600 but um so when you say will america become catholic there's sort of a bigger question

00:08:55.800 inside of that which is what is it to be an american catholic and i think that

00:08:59.400 what you are seeing is that the revival of catholicism in america it is among the contingent

00:09:06.180 of the more traditional catholics there are a lot of younger people that are attending the

00:09:12.180 catholic mass or converting to catholicism and yes and they're all attending the latin mass

00:09:17.760 They're members of the Society of St. Pius X. They're they're very traditional. And I think a lot of that is I think some of that is ideological. I think some of that is an expression of a an ideological or cultural identity, which is to say that, you know, a traditional Catholic convert from Generation Z.

00:09:42.480 you could probably take a guess at his politics and you know maybe what internet groups he's a

00:09:47.640 part of or things like it comes with a whole kind of other identity so you wonder how durable that

00:09:53.160 is yeah and this is something even on my show that i push back against is people that they're

00:10:00.960 rejoining the church because this is just another part of a costume it's just another thing that

00:10:07.060 you do that's a part of a broader identity i wonder how durable that is but i do believe that

00:10:13.240 in the future which are going to be the denominations that that are preeminent it's

00:10:19.380 going to actually be the ones that are i think the most traditional yes and the strongest yes

00:10:24.520 and it's even ones that we're not thinking of you're protestant i'm catholic but the ones that

00:10:29.440 have the higher birth rate it's the mormons it's the amish it's the ones where they actually have

00:10:36.800 this sense of togetherness it's they're the strongest horse you could say they're not the

00:10:41.940 biggest they're not the most widespread but they're the kind of most cohesive and have the

00:10:47.360 strongest sense of in-group identity and so in the future i do see a contingent of traditional

00:10:53.640 catholics that are having lots of kids big families and i know their kids are going to be

00:10:59.320 catholic and their grandkids are going to be catholic and i think that's also true with

00:11:03.920 i'm less familiar with the landscape but maybe for reform protestants and maybe for certain

00:11:09.820 sects of protestantism not not joel osteen megachurch fog machine but in the in the more

00:11:15.480 traditional reformed sector that i'm a part of um i mean the average size family in my church

00:11:21.760 um is probably five to eight kids i mean big families right and and whoever has kids that is

00:11:32.160 who will rule the day they will rule the roost so i think that uh it's a question of whether to me

00:11:39.220 the bigger question first is secular or christian because the country is deeply secular and if you

00:11:45.000 have even among competing christian factions if there's no consensus right that's really where

00:11:50.760 liberalism comes from there's a great book um by a famous straussian pierre manet he writes about

00:11:58.400 the origins of liberalism. And he says that it's basically this agreement to defer all religious

00:12:05.600 disagreements, because if in the 30 years war, if in the religious conflicts, it's just a war of

00:12:11.900 everyone against everyone over Calvinism and Protestantism and Catholicism, we're just never

00:12:18.240 going to have peace. It says, so let's all just agree on some fundamentals and we could have

00:12:23.840 christians and maybe jews and maybe also muslims and indians so there might be a kind of new

00:12:29.640 secular consensus with like a cultural christianity i think maybe that's the most likely

00:12:34.540 that seems very likely and and i think that's maybe tolerable but if it's going to be one

00:12:40.440 denomination that would be an improvement but it's not sustainable long no i agree with you

00:12:44.540 um and then the question after that is is it going to devolve into regionalism

00:12:49.440 you know because it is regional yeah the southerners are more protestant the yankees

00:12:54.940 are more catholic and out west are more mormon you know in the midwest you get mennonites and

00:13:01.280 amish um but i i as a catholic of course i'm biased i tend to believe that catholics have

00:13:08.400 the strongest claim i think that we have the story we have the apostolic succession i mean

00:13:15.140 you know the benefits the sacraments um and i think that the weakness of protestantism is that

00:13:22.300 it's inherently entropic it's all it's always in the the classic catholic critique without that

00:13:28.620 unity and authority that proceeds from the pope and the central institution everybody becomes their

00:13:33.780 own pope yeah you get it you get you still have a pope 300 million churches 300 million popes

00:13:38.840 right yeah so i i think you're you're right about a lot of that um you know we were talking before

00:13:44.600 this episode just for fun because it's a fascinating topic and it really really matters

00:13:48.980 because you're talking about the soul of the nation and what will its religion be that's

00:13:52.520 going to be the cohesive glue that holds the people together and binds them it's got to be

00:13:56.400 religion secularism it's you know rush duney um he was a like a theonomic protestant reform guy

00:14:02.900 and he once said it's not whether but which um so it's not whether a country you know a nation is

00:14:08.720 going to have a religion but just which one will it be and secularism uh when you think about it

00:14:13.420 really really was and really is a religion in and of itself you know i mean it's it's not whether

00:14:19.720 we'll have sacraments but which ones oh abortion is a sacrament oh sodomy is a sacrament it's not

00:14:24.800 whether we'll have priests and priests priestess you know but which ones oh the priest fauci you

00:14:30.280 know this priest that like so people are inherently religious and that's what culture is culture it

00:14:36.220 just comes with the latin word cultus which is to worship we like we're made in the image of god

00:14:41.300 we're going to worship someone something we're going to have some kind of religion and i think

00:14:46.640 that that's inevitable up to date nxr studios is the only right-wing media company to produce a

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00:16:55.620 to members.nxrstudios.com again that's members.nxrstudios.com but when I think of America

00:17:08.700 and its founding even before you know 1776 and like thinking about you know like make America

00:17:15.280 great again when I think like let's go back I'm like you know it's like back to the founding I'm

00:17:19.200 like oh some of the founders were a little gay but you know like what about the 1600s you know 0.65

00:17:23.740 like that was you know let's get back to the 13 colonies let's get back to some of this stuff

00:17:27.300 um but there's no denying i mean you as a catholic you would say yeah america was founded as a

00:17:32.420 protestant nation right so that that seems undeniable um but i think i think what i would

00:17:39.840 say to you know in response to what you were saying is that what seemed to be kind of uh the

00:17:45.520 greatest strength of protestantism early on in the settling and formation of america has now in many

00:17:51.480 ways become a liability and what i mean by that is like we forget you know we'll talk about like

00:17:56.700 you know the size of the country in terms of numerically the people and all the immigrants 1.00

00:18:00.400 there's too many people you know like a hundred billion have to go back you know we need to import 1.00

00:18:05.180 all of india just so we can deport them and you know like this many people have to go back but 0.61

00:18:09.640 take the people aside america is a massive country just in terms of the land like the literal

00:18:15.320 geographic size of the country and so you think about settling a land mass of that size and you

00:18:21.460 think of like early on it's like yeah it was it was preachers doing you know horseback circuits

00:18:27.220 you know go to like on the lord's day they would preach in you know 10 different towns you know and

00:18:32.260 make their their circuit and go around and there was something like necessary not not even ideal

00:18:39.560 but necessary with the the protestant ethos whether the protestant work ethic or um or the

00:18:47.140 the priesthood of all believers and that it's not just the clergy elevated among, you know,

00:18:51.840 above the plebs, but it's like, everyone's a part of this project. And, and there's something also

00:18:56.620 to the simplicity of Protestantism that at, at the founding in the beginning was an asset. And,

00:19:04.140 and I think an indispensable asset, like what, what does it take just in brass tacks? What does

00:19:09.680 it take to do church? Well, it takes two or three gathered in my name. So if we have a town with

00:19:15.860 more than two people uh one biblically qualified man who knows the bible and can preach and he

00:19:21.260 needs to come on a horse and we just need to make sure we have water bread wine a bible and a

00:19:26.700 biblically qualified man and at least one other person and we can do church you know like we don't

00:19:32.060 have to have the cathedral we don't have to have the robes and the tassels and the incense and the

00:19:36.260 you know these kinds of things there's a there's a simplicity and when you're pioneers you know

00:19:41.120 what i mean and and it's this huge land mass and there's you know there's there's uh you know

00:19:45.980 indians and and and then weather and and all the like all the elements that you're battling and

00:19:51.720 you don't even know if you can get food um to be able to say like we're going to go in the field

00:19:55.720 and have church this sunday you know um it's almost like like if it was going to be christian

00:20:02.040 at all it almost had to be protestantism it almost had to um but now the asset the advantage

00:20:09.660 in many ways has become a liability in the sense that all right well we're kind of settled now

00:20:15.220 right we got like we we have roads you know we have buildings we have people over three we have

00:20:21.140 too many people we have you know over 300 million people and and now it's like what what americans

00:20:26.280 brag about kind of that like politically it would be libertarianism and the religious version is

00:20:31.240 kind of the protestant spirit and not all denominations like anglicans have hierarchy

00:20:36.560 right in their ecclesiastical polity there's there's order and there's um but but you look

00:20:42.040 at america in the landscape most protestants are non-denominational i mean that that isn't that

00:20:47.880 like just perfect american you know like i'm an american christian okay what denomination none

00:20:53.220 you know like that's like of course okay okay boomer um you know or baptist i'm a baptist i

00:20:59.500 have to own this um but here's the thing about baptist is when it comes to polity governance

00:21:03.960 um there's no hierarchy baptist like one of the quintessential things other than of course like

00:21:09.820 credo baptism you know rather than pedo baptism infant baptism on the polity side um baptist we

00:21:16.640 we pride ourselves in local church autonomy there's no pope here in fact there's not even a

00:21:22.640 bishop there's not even a presbyter there's not like nobody can tell us what to do nobody you

00:21:27.420 know and you look at the landscape in america with protestants it's not anglicans it's not 0.99

00:21:31.600 Episcopalians and it's kind of their fault because they became super gay that's on them 0.82

00:21:35.880 but it's mainly Baptist Methodist and non-denominational and those are the big three 0.99

00:21:41.600 and I think that like that kind of polity that could be atomistic it could be uh independent

00:21:48.000 right like where I you know because there is no representative that's going to be able to come

00:21:52.600 from Massachusetts and like we're on the other side of the country um we've got to be able to

00:21:57.640 be self-sufficient not just practically physically politically but even religiously we need to be

00:22:02.940 able to do church and settle our disputes and preach the word minister sacraments all these

00:22:07.740 kinds of things and we got to do it at home nobody's coming you know we're isolated you know

00:22:11.800 and so i i think like it had to be protestants and particularly baptists and eventually that

00:22:18.320 kind of devolving into non-denominational guys um early on now in in many ways it's like we have to

00:22:25.280 be now, now it's the opposite need. It's like, we have to be organized with like this egalitarian

00:22:30.280 crap has to go away. It has to stop. We, we need hierarchy. We need authority. We need 0.99

00:22:36.980 organization. We need, and I've said this multiple times. I'll, I'll leave it here and go back to you.

00:22:41.720 But I, um, people would be like, well, Joel, like you, you didn't even go to seminary, 0.99

00:22:46.520 which is true. You know, or like, uh, you know, you're talking about Christian nationalism. 0.75

00:22:51.300 you're talking about like monarchy and stuff and isn't that hypocritical and and i just respond

00:22:55.660 and say like it it it is an apparent inconsistency but it's not hypocritical i am working for america

00:23:01.660 to be the kind of nation politically culturally and religiously where i would not be allowed

00:23:06.760 i would not be allowed to have a youtube channel with over 100 000 people like like there's a

00:23:14.220 certain point where it's like okay um the peanut gallery just has to stop right we actually don't

00:23:20.880 need all these self-appointed experts, you know, religiously, politically, but we have them because

00:23:27.320 that we kind of had to have them to begin with, with this massive project that we embarked on.

00:23:32.660 And then we kind of had a second wave, like a resurgence of the every man, you know, starting

00:23:37.780 a YouTube channel and I'm listening to him instead of CNN, you know, or I'm listening to this doctor,

00:23:42.420 you know, with ivermectin, which I think is fantastic rather than fast because all the

00:23:46.760 experts that we did have, when we finally built them in the nation, you know, we're a couple

00:23:49.840 hundred years in and so now we have like some hierarchy we have institutions they all turned

00:23:54.420 out to be crooks you know and so now it's like back to like ground zero but eventually if we're

00:23:58.740 going to mature as a people um you're going to have to have authority you're going to have to

00:24:03.620 have organization you're going to have to and catholics have that now i'd like it to be

00:24:08.140 protestant you know of course i'm biased um there are some protestant versions that have have i think

00:24:13.960 of anglicans um baptists don't really have that everybody has your own church do whatever you want

00:24:20.240 nobody can there's literally no formal authoritative mechanism that can so you can just

00:24:25.180 have pastor bob and he literally is the pope of these 100 people can say anything do anything

00:24:30.920 there's no there's no recourse right you can't you know like you can't do anything and that kind

00:24:37.420 of works when you're in the in vitro stage of a country because that's kind of the in vitro stage

00:24:44.700 of of the you know ecclesiastical polity and on the religious side of that country that's just

00:24:50.780 beginning um but that's going to eventually mature i think it has to into something more formal

00:24:56.420 the high church of like that's a cathedral now right and and uh the pastor is not wearing flip

00:25:03.600 flops you know and and there's some kind of organization some kind of system and catholics

00:25:09.480 have always had that i think it's possible with with some sex of protestantism um but it won't be

00:25:17.640 what we have now and i think it's inevitable it's inevitable that um that is going to have to evolve

00:25:23.000 what do you think yeah i totally agree i think that you know people always remind me uh because

00:25:28.500 I'm very patriotic, but I'm also Catholic. They say, well, you know, America was founded as a

00:25:33.620 Protestant country, so we have to respect that. We have to be Protestant forever. But I would say 0.81

00:25:38.540 that, you know, and I kind of joke around when I say this, but I say, yeah, America was founded

00:25:43.960 Protestant. Look at how that's going. It's not going super well. And I think that the problems

00:25:50.140 with Protestantism reflect in the problems with America, which is the spirit of rebelliousness.

00:25:56.560 It is. You know, and it's a big part of why. I mean, look, America was a product of the Enlightenment. The American Revolution, like the French Revolution, it's an inherently egalitarian revolution and slightly different. 0.91

00:26:09.840 But in America, even the concept of a republic, this is controversial in the 18th century that you have a Republican idea of sovereignty instead of a monarchy.

00:26:20.100 It's anti-clerical. It's anti-monarchical.

00:26:23.120 It says we're all citizens.

00:26:25.560 No one can tell anyone what to do.

00:26:27.600 The king can't tell us what to do.

00:26:30.560 We're liberated.

00:26:32.860 And liberation is not really a Christian word.

00:26:37.440 Liberation, freedom, that sort of thing.

00:26:39.840 at least in the American context,

00:26:41.620 in the context of the Enlightenment or liberalism itself,

00:26:44.540 it's not really a good thing. 0.86

00:26:45.980 Biblically, it's bond servants or slaves of Christ. 0.99

00:26:49.840 Right.

00:26:50.900 Freedom is freedom from sin

00:26:52.900 because it's been replaced.

00:26:55.820 Slavery to sin has been, again, not whether but which.

00:26:59.120 Christian faith is slavery.

00:27:01.040 What makes it beautiful is no longer slaves to self 0.94

00:27:03.960 or slaves to sin, but slaves to Christ.

00:27:05.780 But it's not whether you'll be a slave,

00:27:08.020 whose slave will you be?

00:27:09.020 Exactly, right.

00:27:09.840 which master do you serve and in america it from the very start it's a rebellion and it's a

00:27:16.600 rebellion against against different forms of hierarchy but in particular against the king

00:27:21.000 against that whole arrangement and what we've seen over the past 300 years that that is like

00:27:26.920 the national spirit of america is rebelling against everything it's not a coincidence that

00:27:32.060 we're the country of like rock and roll and mass democracy and like americanism is now synonymous

00:27:39.040 with no rules no boundaries you know defying everything and now our export is probably

00:27:45.080 actually harmful like what we're exporting to the country and this is a critique which our

00:27:50.600 adversaries have seized upon in china and in russia is that we're decadent we're decadent

00:27:57.200 almost satanic is what putin says and you know that's i think political i wouldn't when putin

00:28:04.520 says that i do believe that's a form of propaganda and that's targeted at a american conservative

00:28:10.100 audience but he's not wrong in a certain sense it's good propaganda yes because because there's

00:28:15.400 a lot of truth in that and so i think that in order to restore america it does involve a

00:28:21.040 restoration of we're going to have to need to reverse that rebellion and submit on some level

00:28:26.460 to some form of authority moral authority ecclesiastical authority i think on some level

00:28:32.240 it's a mistake that america doesn't have any kind of king there's no sort of repository institution

00:28:37.640 that protects the traditions the character maybe the the greater good of america in general we

00:28:46.720 sort of lack that so i agree with you i would disagree though that america even necessarily

00:28:53.180 needed a protestant phase because you had catholic missionaries that would go out to japan or to

00:29:00.880 You'll still see all the missions that were in California.

00:29:04.260 Yeah.

00:29:04.440 You know, like, yeah.

00:29:05.880 And they just brought the, you know, the cup.

00:29:08.640 They brought their toolkit to administer the sacraments.

00:29:13.320 And they laid down churches.

00:29:15.100 And, you know, there are no doubt problems with Catholicism in, like, the Latin American countries. 0.66

00:29:22.360 Like you said, they're very pagan.

00:29:24.140 And they have remnants of paganism.

00:29:26.020 With that being said, could we not argue that like Mexico and some of these Latin American countries, they're more conservative than America. And there's it's a very complicated situation. There could be many reasons why. But I'm from Chicago and I go sometimes to the masses in Spanish and and anyone who is in L.A., Chicago, a city with a lot of Hispanics may be here.

00:29:52.260 they'll tell you you go to mass in an hispanic community and from morning until evening it's

00:29:59.420 packed when i was living in la when i was working for kanye i would go to mass at seven o'clock

00:30:05.620 at night and it was packed like people were standing at seven o'clock but you'd also go in

00:30:12.180 the morning and it's packed and and they are serious they're crossing themselves all the time

00:30:18.000 like they're true believers now in america i think they're going to lose it like the next generation

00:30:23.420 and the generation after that they're going to lose their religion they're going to apostatize

00:30:27.980 because of the strength of our culture but they're they're coming from mexico or they're coming from

00:30:34.200 wherever with a very strong faith very strong tradition and i don't think that's a coincidence

00:30:40.260 i think that the catholic church has been able to preserve all those things in a way that in a

00:30:46.140 rebellious liberated country protestants have not been able to preserve that so i think inherently

00:30:53.360 for america to be repaired spiritually we have to be repaired and go back home and for me

00:30:59.280 that's rome you know from my point of view that's rome uh but i think even on some level you we

00:31:04.520 talking earlier you recognize that maybe it's a more hierarchical version of protestantism i think

00:31:10.060 it has to be it needs to go back there yeah we have the rebellious spirit you i think you put

00:31:14.840 your finger right on the point it has to go we have to repent of our rebellion um we were just

00:31:22.540 we are a rebellious um individualistic people and uh and and we've got to stop that um and and

00:31:30.020 that rebellion has progressed it's evolved it's become worse uh so you know there was a time where

00:31:35.020 it's like well it's just against kings and now it's kind of against any civil authority you know

00:31:39.700 and uh well it's just against you know villages and you know feudal lord system well now it's

00:31:45.000 against even individual families right i'm not i'm not a member of my family i'm an individual

00:31:50.520 you know so it's like at this point it's like rebellion all the way down to you know it's like

00:31:55.780 now trying to split the atom so now it's literally even not just rebellion against mom and dad at the

00:32:00.620 molecular level of a family but even at the atomistic level um multiple personality disorder

00:32:06.880 or rejecting yourself through transgenderism. 0.65

00:32:09.580 Like you're rebelling against yourself now. 1.00

00:32:11.840 It's like, I mean, it's almost comical

00:32:13.860 if it wasn't so tragic.

00:32:15.200 And so, yeah, we've got to repent of the rebellious spirit

00:32:18.440 that is just innate with who America is

00:32:22.900 and kind of was always there, you know?

00:32:24.480 And it just kind of snowballed over time.

00:32:26.880 There was a lot of great stuff.

00:32:28.400 I love our country.

00:32:29.360 I know you do too.

00:32:30.120 But to pretend that our founding was perfect,

00:32:34.080 to pretend that the bugs in the system

00:32:37.640 weren't there from the beginning,

00:32:39.300 I think is a bit naive.

00:32:41.140 Like, I think we should have been more explicit

00:32:42.580 in the founding documents.

00:32:44.500 Yeah.

00:32:45.040 We should just like, King Jesus, name him, say his name.

00:32:48.860 You know, I wish we would have.

00:32:51.800 And now I understand the founders,

00:32:53.760 I don't think they could even conceive of,

00:32:55.860 you know, well, one day there'll be millions of Muslims, 0.99

00:32:57.880 you know, something like,

00:32:59.480 so I think I can see their reasoning for why,

00:33:03.780 you know like the first amendment and people always say that like well they can't you know

00:33:07.340 you can't require religion and and so you can set up a 90 foot tall you know statue outside of 0.89

00:33:12.600 houston you know that's like the muslim sand demon you know because the first amendment it's like

00:33:16.660 well it's congress shall make like i don't think we should have a federal church in america um 0.98

00:33:22.700 but there's actually i mean even the 13 colonies they all had state churches so right it's

00:33:27.500 technically nothing constitutional against texas having a state church you know and and pennsylvania

00:33:32.660 having a state church uh even with the first amendment there's nothing against that congress

00:33:37.200 uh can't do this uh but but my point is the fact that that's so easily misinterpreted now

00:33:42.720 right people don't even have the context for authorial intent and they they literally think

00:33:46.740 like what was in the mind of george washington was carving out a space uh for voodoo it's like

00:33:53.520 like that people literally think that right that's what makes america so great so so even if it wasn't

00:33:59.320 their intent. They left the door open for where we are today. And you can go back and argue till

00:34:06.660 you're blue in the face, but this is what they meant. This is what they meant. At a certain

00:34:09.960 level though, you might just have to say, well, they were wrong. Yeah. They were wrong. And just

00:34:16.040 because they were wrong then doesn't mean we have to be wrong forever. We actually can, we love the

00:34:21.880 founders in many ways but also um benjamin franklin was he was a degenerate you know and

00:34:29.260 thomas jefferson was ripping out you know pages of the bible like these guys were not perfect men

00:34:34.880 right if you had told steven as stones were crushing his body that he was dying for a shared

00:34:42.560 judeo-christian foundation he would have called it blasphemy the first martyr died proclaiming

00:34:49.120 Christ alone, not a hyphenated faith shared with those who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets

00:34:55.740 and who drove out the apostles and, as the apostle Paul declared, oppose all mankind. Learn why the

00:35:03.880 church has always stood apart in the hyphenated heresy Judeo-Christianity. Reclaim the faith

00:35:19.120 And I love that because, you know, when you say that you're an American patriot or America first, we do sort of like deify the founding fathers.

00:35:28.760 And and I see a lot of Protestants do this also in Washington on the National Mall.

00:35:35.600 They're literally like pagan gods, like statues of them, like Zeus.

00:35:40.400 And it's literally designed to be like Zeus or like Apollo. 0.91

00:35:43.960 And I love that because it's like, yeah, they were fallible.

00:35:47.440 They were flawed.

00:35:48.360 They actually were not God and they are not saints and they weren't perfect.

00:35:53.020 And, you know, like you said, the seeds, the germ of it was kind of there from the beginning.

00:35:57.840 And now we have this prospect kind of getting back to the orcs versus the elves and the

00:36:03.800 hobbits or the elves and the dwarves or all three or whatever. 0.77

00:36:07.660 Now we have a situation where you could have, like in New York, a Muslim mayor of the city 0.68

00:36:13.140 And, you know, talking about Jewish people running for president and a prospect of maybe a secular person, what even do they believe in? 0.57

00:36:22.560 I mean, can a person even truly, that's like you said, secularism can be like a substitute for religion. 0.85

00:36:28.040 But if you're not serving any God, maybe you're serving the devil.

00:36:32.080 And that's kind of who we might have running our country.

00:36:35.720 And if you think of the leader of the country as the father of the nation, the country as a unit.

00:36:43.140 It all proceeds from the top. So this has given way to it. It's a huge opening for error and for problems. And on some level, if you just believe in Americanism or the American ideology, what even could you say against that?

00:36:58.720 You know, could you say it would be arbitrary? Muslims should not be president. Jews should not be president. What about Senator? What about Supreme Court? Can they write the laws, enforce the laws, interpret the laws? Where does it begin? Where does it end? 1.00

00:37:14.660 and who's to say who's allowed and who isn't.

00:37:17.720 And I think anyone on some level would recognize

00:37:20.040 it's not American.

00:37:22.120 It's also not right that we have like polytheistic gods.

00:37:26.300 They're building giant statues of them all over our country. 0.91

00:37:30.160 Are we going to live in a giant Diwali festival

00:37:33.040 until the end of time? 0.99

00:37:34.300 Like, no, that's not Western.

00:37:36.460 It's not American. 1.00

00:37:37.820 That's not Christian. 1.00

00:37:39.100 It's not right. 1.00

00:37:40.380 It's not the truth. 0.98

00:37:41.400 And so there needs to be some recognition that that has to go in reverse and it has to go towards an explicit identification of America as a Christian nation. 0.86

00:37:53.500 And I think the basics are, you know, getting back to the Catholic Protestant unity.

00:37:58.620 We believe in Jesus Christ and we believe in his resurrection.

00:38:02.140 We believe in the gospels that that's who we are.

00:38:05.480 And that's what our country is going to be.

00:38:08.040 and if you don't like it leave leave and you can't have any authority over us if you're not a

00:38:14.260 christian then you're a guest exactly and can have behave like one behave like one and you have no

00:38:20.620 authority over christians over a christian country if that is not your if that's not your creed and

00:38:27.900 for a time there might have even been a valid counter argument maybe for the jews but now you

00:38:35.300 have israel so if they want to say maybe a hundred years ago if they wanted to say well what about us

00:38:42.260 well now there is an explicitly jewish nationalist state in the middle east alongside all the

00:38:49.300 muslim countries so if you want islam if you want hinduism if you even want rabbinical judaism

00:38:55.700 there are plenty of other countries you have a place to go right but this is a christian nation

00:39:00.660 And so, and that is the basis of Christian nationalism. 0.51

00:39:04.680 It's almost like you're a Zionist. 0.73

00:39:05.540 You want the Jews to go home, you know?

00:39:07.160 I'm like, I want them to actually have a nation state 1.00

00:39:09.540 and stay in it, you know, stay over there.

00:39:12.220 No, I completely agree.

00:39:14.580 Here's another thing.

00:39:15.420 So you were talking about America in particular 0.78

00:39:17.380 and one of the arguments that Protestants would use, 1.00

00:39:19.180 and I agree with it, you know,

00:39:20.540 but I think you gave, you know, a good counter.

00:39:23.000 But one of the arguments is,

00:39:23.920 well, but America was, you know, historically Protestant,

00:39:26.180 so it's never allowed to be Catholic.

00:39:28.240 Like, okay, take America in particular aside

00:39:30.780 and just thinking of nationalism on a global scale.

00:39:35.060 Like you're a nationalist, at least as far as it goes.

00:39:37.900 I'm a nationalist.

00:39:39.760 That's one of my problems with Catholicism.

00:39:41.720 So we can get into the theology in a moment.

00:39:44.480 Obviously, I would disagree with the theological points,

00:39:48.220 primarily as it pertains to soteriology, salvation,

00:39:52.240 but still speaking like politically

00:39:54.600 and how religion works, you know,

00:39:56.680 in tandem with, um, national politics, um, Catholicism. So I believe the Christian religion

00:40:02.860 is universal, every tribe, tongue, and nation, right? Uh, Christianity is not a white religion.

00:40:08.700 Um, it's a, it's a human religion. It's, it's for all peoples. Um, and now I don't deny that,

00:40:14.560 you know, over the last, you know, 1500 years, starting from Constantine or at least the last

00:40:19.260 millennia, starting with, you know, King Alfred, uh, God has providentially worked in a unique way

00:40:24.040 with Westerners. There's no doubt, which is incredible and praise God for his grace.

00:40:29.540 But I want as many people to be saved as possible. I'd also like for them to stay in their country, 0.99

00:40:35.880 you know, but, but I'd like for them to be saved. I don't mind if they're my neighbors in heaven

00:40:40.320 because the FBI, you know, crime statistics in heaven will be zero. You know, there's no more

00:40:45.040 we'll be okay. So all that being said, I do want nationalism though. And Catholicism,

00:40:51.800 it's not just universal protestants in our view of christianity and salvation is universal

00:40:56.380 uh but but there's a difference in a universal christian religion and a globalism um and and i

00:41:02.360 think of catholicism like it actually has a global headquarters um whereas protestantism now i've

00:41:09.300 already admitted it fractured too much it's one thing to go down molecular it's another to go down

00:41:14.240 to atomistic and you know um and so protestantism has become so fractured and isolated and

00:41:20.300 individualistic that it really has become a rebellious spirit and a problem um but to go

00:41:25.560 all the way you know to where it's um i mean the vicar of christ there's like one dude and and one

00:41:32.040 headquarters one and it's not just a spiritual head it's a geographic locale um for all the

00:41:37.740 world so it's like so when i think of um nationalism politically and culturally and knowing that

00:41:44.080 there's going to have to be the national religious piece. How can Catholicism

00:41:51.280 be conducive with nationalism? I think that the way Catholics look at the nations, 0.94

00:42:00.140 what G.K. Chesterton said is that the church is the mother of the nations, created the nations,

00:42:05.320 because all the nations are under kings, Catholic kings. And I don't, at least in the 21st century,

00:42:12.680 I don't hate the idea of the church having a global headquarters because I like the idea that a head of state will listen to the advice of a spiritual leader, that there's someone kind of over and above and not representing.

00:42:27.080 But wouldn't it be great if each nation had that spiritual leader in their nation?

00:42:30.740 No, because you know that, like, for example, with Russia and Ukraine, their Orthodox churches, which are national, have kind of become a party to their conflict.

00:42:41.580 and that's one of the reasons the russian orthodox church is persecuted in ukraine is

00:42:46.480 because ukraine sees it as a as an extension of the russian state as operatives of the russian

00:42:51.440 state and i like the idea of the pope as a unifying figure that can give advice to the heads of state

00:42:59.300 as a spiritual father and and be on some level neutral in a in a political sense um but i do

00:43:08.740 agree that in recent i'll give some concession here which is that the pope is clearly embraced

00:43:16.340 a globalist ideology i mean i saw the tweets when they selected you know i seen you know like the

00:43:23.540 some of his tweets on immigration i was like oh this is not great it's brutal and then to follow

00:43:28.280 it up with blessing blocks of ice it's like yeah that was a hard day for i felt for you i was like

00:43:32.940 this is it's been a tough 25 years on the planet or i guess ever since pope francis maybe benedict

00:43:39.960 wasn't so bad but uh but clearly pope francis and and now this new pope apparently also

00:43:46.520 it is and it taking an anti-national bent ideologically the critical of borders the

00:43:54.040 existence of borders this kind of climate politics which does kind of beg for a global political

00:44:01.720 action and so to me that seems like oh that's that's just the uh consistent application of

00:44:08.080 catholicism right i see those i i actually see those actions of like this is the natural the

00:44:13.220 logical outflow but but you're saying you know to be fair to your argument you're saying no i don't

00:44:17.740 think that's inherent to catholicism no i don't i think that uh that just sort of goes with the

00:44:23.600 territory i think that the catholic church the older generations are very liberal because the

00:44:28.860 catholic church was animated in the last century by social justice which had a different kind of

00:44:33.660 flavor and you know they they were you know it's the love of the poor it's this sort of thing

00:44:40.120 um particularly among the jesuits and that's we had was a jesuit pope for many years i think that

00:44:46.740 as time goes on the newer generations of the clergy will reflect kind of the contemporary

00:44:52.300 spiritual state of catholics in reaction to feminism post-modernism nihilism i think you're

00:44:59.900 going to get maybe a different flavor down the road and and i would say maybe the benefit of

00:45:04.820 being catholic or the asterisk next to it is that the pope is only infallible in very specific

00:45:12.200 context right uh which has only been invoked twice on marian dogmas not on open borders you know the

00:45:19.940 way that some protestants critique it you'd think that that's true it's an infallible dogma like

00:45:24.400 thou shalt not have borders which is not really the case but i i will i will admit the current

00:45:29.360 clergy is very liberal and i i do think that they've frequently crossed the line into pushing

00:45:35.280 a globalist ideology but i don't think that's inherent in the religion i think you're right i

00:45:40.740 right before they selected the um the most recent pope i you know i like to predict it's just fun

00:45:47.240 And it's not even that I think I'm particularly good at it.

00:45:49.960 I have a decent batting average, but it's, it's just fun, you know,

00:45:53.200 and it takes some courage because, you know,

00:45:54.600 when you're predicting something, you could be wrong, you know?

00:45:56.500 So, but I, you know, people are like, we're going to get, you know,

00:45:59.380 a base Pope and, you know, he's going to, and I was like, 0.84

00:46:01.680 I think you're going to get a gay Pope. 0.88

00:46:04.320 And I think the reason why is because it wasn't just arbitrary. 0.99

00:46:08.040 I had a reasoning behind it because the Catholic church is a massive

00:46:12.420 institution and institutions are always behind the people.

00:46:16.160 Like they move more slowly.

00:46:17.240 And so that's, that's the strength, right? So like, that's the strength of Catholicism. So with like Protestants, it could, it could divide and conquer. And like I was arguing, I think that in many ways that was necessary, you know, in America's founding Catholicism, but then it became a liability where we are today.

00:46:36.520 Catholicism kind of like the flip of that it's you know it's cohesive it's organized it's unified

00:46:42.040 um and and uh the benefit of that is that you don't have you know like a random you know coup

00:46:49.580 in this church and this new person becomes a pastor and it's a chick with blue hair you know

00:46:53.780 like Catholics can avoid that in a way that sadly some Protestants cannot um uh so it moves more 0.51

00:47:00.400 slowly the the that's the advantage the disadvantage is that um when things are already

00:47:06.860 off the rails and and you're not so so you slowly compromise right whereas protestants compromised

00:47:13.780 fast right slowly compromise okay that's a strength the weakness though is like okay but

00:47:19.140 once you're compromised to reform it um is also going to be slow and so my prediction was um it's 0.78

00:47:26.320 Like, well, look at what's happening around the world, Hungary, you know, and Bukele with El Salvador. 0.89

00:47:30.960 Like, I think we're going to get a base Catholic pope.

00:47:33.640 And I was like, no, the Catholic church will probably be 20 years behind this transition.

00:47:38.040 So we're actually probably going to experience the worst of the whole, you know, of secularism coming to a head.

00:47:45.900 What we experienced culturally and politically, you'll probably get the aftershock of that religious, you know, within the Catholics expression of that secularism 20 years after the fact. 0.91

00:47:56.140 you know, cause they'll still be catching up. And then in that generation will have to die 0.94

00:48:00.040 almost like Joshua, you know, uh, or Moses with the Israelites wandering the desert. Cause it's

00:48:04.720 like, we've got an entire generation that doesn't get, you know, they got to die off before, you

00:48:08.940 know, the next one gets to go in with Joshua and Caleb. And I think that that's, so I, I think you

00:48:14.040 probably do get a based Catholic, uh, Pope, um, after 20 years after politically and culturally

00:48:20.440 things have already kind of righted yeah and and i would say that to the credit of the catholic

00:48:26.900 church you're right it's a very conservative institution not not like ideologically but

00:48:32.700 like temperamentally it's like you said it's slow to change and unfortunately what's conservative

00:48:37.540 now is like being a mainstream liberal or you're something like that but um i just lost my train

00:48:45.140 of thought what were we saying about um well just it changes slowly and maybe we'll get a

00:48:48.880 conservative pope oh yes the to the credit of the catholic church i it will never be progressive

00:48:55.500 which is and i think to like to your point about the critique with protestants not something that

00:49:02.960 you could really take for granted which is to say that in the 21st century in the current year

00:49:08.340 when they're outdoing themselves with how radical they can get with transgenderism and it it seems

00:49:16.400 like the dominoes fall so quickly it went from like everybody seemed to sort of be against 0.63

00:49:21.420 homosexuality and now it's like if you're not on board with like transgender kids you know you're 0.97

00:49:26.800 a nazi you're a fascist the catholic church to its credit is holding the line against all of it 0.99

00:49:32.960 against feminism against every form contraceptives yeah you know even even sodomy like um you know 1.00

00:49:42.140 within marriage within the heterosexual it's very conservative in terms of the politics of sex

00:49:49.400 sexuality itself the gender dynamics um it's conservative in the face of all of that stuff

00:49:56.280 which you know on the contrary with a lot of protestant sex i mean they are as liberal as it

00:50:03.460 gets and i recognize it's not all of them but you've got protestant churches with straight up

00:50:08.060 blm trans rainbow flags and you know in this period of radical change the catholic church

00:50:17.260 seems to be one of the only things that stays the same and you know and i understand that of course

00:50:22.880 there are liberal priests and liberal bishops and you know even in europe they're they're rebelling

00:50:28.760 they're pushing the envelope they're trying to bless gay unions uh in opposition against rome

00:50:35.240 in opposition against the church, but it's the exception. It's not the dogma. And you still

00:50:43.420 feel something familiar when you go to a Catholic church. There's still the tradition. There's still

00:50:49.800 the reverence. There's still some, even in the most liberal Novus Ordo churches, there's still

00:50:55.140 some passing resemblance to the mass and the sacraments that have been around for 2,000 years.

00:51:00.620 and i know a lot of traditional catholics would say and they do they say oh no it's completely

00:51:06.040 different it could be a lot worse in the context of where the world is so um that that is what i

00:51:13.680 actually admire is that it is maybe the most conservative institution in the world at this

00:51:19.000 point yeah that's admirable um so some of my reformed protestant buddies and our you know

00:51:25.160 our listeners that's that's uh at this point maybe only half of our audience but still a

00:51:29.960 sizable portion, you know, and talking to them about, you know, doing this project with you.

00:51:35.960 They, you know, were sending me, you know, some of them were like, that's great. I'm glad that

00:51:39.580 you're doing it. And then others were like, that's terrible. How could you, you know, why would you

00:51:43.280 have Nick? And so they're, you know, trying to dissuade me. And so a couple of them sent like

00:51:48.160 a clip of you saying that, you know, that there is no salvation outside of the church, which I've

00:51:53.240 heard that's Catholic rhetoric. That's not novel or anything like that. But there's ways of

00:51:57.900 interpreting you know what somebody means when they say that so just point blank i've got you on

00:52:02.300 the air um do all protestants go to hell um well we don't know that's that's really the catholic

00:52:10.180 answer and what the catholic church reserves is the possibility that non-catholics will go to

00:52:16.120 heaven and there's actually rules for how this works because the question is always what about

00:52:22.340 someone that's never heard of catholicism right and for those people that really have never had

00:52:27.580 access to christ we say it's really more about conscience and everyone has the moral law the

00:52:33.440 natural law written on their heart and if they follow that right and then there are people where

00:52:38.680 it's a question of did they have the ability to look into catholicism did they sort of refuse it

00:52:45.180 and so there's accommodations that are made i refuse nick so well in your case you might be

00:52:51.400 going to hell but in the end and and i'll tell you this is my position which is very

00:52:57.100 controversial in the catholic church i tend to the belief that we should hope for a general

00:53:05.520 salvation very controversial you know this universal salvation and the catholic we're not

00:53:12.300 allowed to say that everyone is saved right we're allowed to hope that everyone is saved that hell

00:53:18.020 is empty or mostly empty and so i i definitely tend towards a more liberal interpretation which

00:53:25.080 that more are saved than not saved.

00:53:28.340 That's actually interesting

00:53:29.500 because that is my view.

00:53:31.080 Now I get there through a different route,

00:53:33.120 but my view is I'm post-millennial in my eschatology.

00:53:37.500 So eschatology, just a belief of the end times.

00:53:40.620 I don't believe in a rapture.

00:53:42.680 I'm not a dispensationalist.

00:53:44.280 I'm not pre-millennial.

00:53:45.220 I'm not all millennial.

00:53:46.180 I'm post-millennial.

00:53:47.460 And to put it in a nutshell,

00:53:49.320 the easiest way I could say it is

00:53:50.720 for most pre-millennial guys,

00:53:53.380 not so much the historic pre-millennial but especially disby zionist pre-mill guys um they

00:53:59.540 believe that christ wins everybody believes christ wins uh to be fair and steel man the argument

00:54:04.120 it's not that they believe that christ loses they believe he wins but they believe christ wins

00:54:08.160 despite a weak kind of shrinking remnant of a church that the church will be saved uh but saved

00:54:16.140 by the bell you know it's like like you know jesus please don't tarry come back quickly because

00:54:21.800 Everything's going to hell in a handbasket, but we, you know, the few, the proud, the remnant remain and we can't really do anything, you know, and we're certainly going to lose.

00:54:32.900 But, you know, we're going to, by your grace, you're going to sustain us.

00:54:36.400 We'll make it all 12 rounds and we'll be saved by the bell.

00:54:39.160 Christ will return and vanquish his enemies and, you know, and save the church.

00:54:45.680 I'm post-millennial, so I believe Christ wins, but rather winning despite a losing church.

00:54:50.900 I believe he wins through the church, that the church, the body of Christ here on earth will be

00:54:56.320 progressively and gradually victorious throughout the actual temporal gospel age. Now that doesn't

00:55:02.140 mean just like the stock market, right? You look at it over a hundred years, it goes up.

00:55:06.420 This doesn't mean it goes up every day, you know? And so I'd say like, we're in a hell of a dip,

00:55:10.460 you know, like I would say like, we're like 350 year dip right now. So like, so, uh, you know,

00:55:15.800 it's like onward Christian soldier. And right now, you know, the Christian soldiers are getting 0.92

00:55:19.260 their butts kicked, you know, like from the enlightenment and you could argue even earlier 0.99

00:55:23.480 and things like that. Like we've, we've, we've lost some ground, some serious ground. But I do 0.84

00:55:29.160 believe like, I mean, you look at the time of Christ and you look at where we are today and

00:55:32.500 there's no denying, were there more disciples when Jesus was walking the earth or today? You know,

00:55:38.820 like were there, you know, I mean, you, you look at what God has done and it's not just that he's

00:55:43.140 saving people, you know, in the life to come in a spiritual heavenly sense, but like the gospel

00:55:48.200 has gone forth and is shaping the nations, not just saving individual people spiritually,

00:55:52.240 but actually forming civilization and all these developments. I mean, it was Christians, you know,

00:55:57.120 who, who innovated and created and all these different things that Christ gets the glory

00:56:03.460 for that. And so I actually do believe that not only that Christ wins because he saves a losing

00:56:08.820 church when the bell rings in the final analysis, but that Christ will win as head of the church

00:56:14.280 through his church progressively and gradually

00:56:16.440 with dips along the way throughout history,

00:56:19.840 actually throughout history,

00:56:21.340 that the mustard seed will grow into a great tree,

00:56:25.900 that the leaven will actually work

00:56:27.660 through the whole batch of dough.

00:56:29.920 There's so many parables where Jesus talks about this. 0.83

00:56:32.840 And so like even Protestants like Charles Spurgeon, 0.90

00:56:35.480 Charles Spurgeon,

00:56:36.540 like people have called me a heretic for this.

00:56:38.780 I'm like, and people who love Spurgeon,

00:56:40.360 I was like, I actually was quoting Spurgeon.

00:56:42.240 and they have egg on their face.

00:56:45.000 But Spurgeon famously believed

00:56:47.280 that the crowds of heaven would dwarf

00:56:52.100 and utterly eclipse the population of hell.

00:56:57.180 And he argued it and it's like, well, how?

00:56:59.440 I mean, there's so many people

00:57:00.340 that don't believe in Jesus.

00:57:02.560 You just look at America.

00:57:03.920 It's like right now, like really, Joel,

00:57:05.120 you think more people in America today

00:57:06.660 are truly born again Christians than not? 0.94

00:57:09.780 And I would never even try to make that case. 1.00

00:57:12.100 I think that's pretty, pretty silly. 1.00

00:57:14.320 It definitely seems like genuine Christians are a minority, 1.00

00:57:17.680 certainly in the West.

00:57:18.940 But he argued, Spurgeon, he talked about,

00:57:21.660 what about all the babies that died in the womb?

00:57:24.420 What about infants?

00:57:25.640 What about, and then, you know,

00:57:26.940 and then he argued further and saying like,

00:57:29.000 okay, so right now maybe hell is more populated than heaven,

00:57:33.640 but let Christ cook.

00:57:35.700 Let him cook.

00:57:37.220 Look at the trajectory. 0.82

00:57:39.060 Look at the way Christianity has shaped the world. 0.68

00:57:41.320 Look at the way that it's permeated, like leavened, the whole batch of dough.

00:57:45.540 If this is what's happened in 2,000 years, if Christ tarries, right?

00:57:48.920 Because I'm not pre-meal.

00:57:50.240 I don't think he's coming back next Thursday.

00:57:51.920 No man knows the day or the hour, but I think it may be a while.

00:57:56.060 And I think even if it's not, we should have that mentality. 0.96

00:57:58.940 Part of the reason that we're going to hell in a handbasket is because Christians with their eschatology thinking that Jesus is going to come back next week. 0.98

00:58:05.200 We checked out. 0.98

00:58:06.120 We checked out, you know, and it's like, no wonder we're losing.

00:58:08.980 So you should live as though it's going to be a while until Christ returns, whether it is or it's not.

00:58:14.100 And if I had to guess, I think it will be a while because I think that part of what God's doing in this cosmic battle against his arch enemy, Satan, is not just saving the church.

00:58:25.620 But Christ is going to utterly defeat, but not just defeat, but humiliate Satan.

00:58:31.880 Like Colossians even says it, like through the cross, like he held the demonic spirits to open shame.

00:58:36.920 It's not enough to just beat them.

00:58:38.180 our God is, he's masculine and he's kind of a Chad. Like our God, like he doesn't just defeat

00:58:44.920 his enemies. He shames them. He humiliates them. He mops the floor with them. And it'd be one thing

00:58:50.200 for like, for Christ to beat Satan. It's another for him to take puny little guys like us. And by

00:58:55.900 the sanctifying power of his spirit over the gospel age through 2000 years, and then maybe 3000 or

00:59:01.340 4000 to actually win the world throughout human history in this temporal age, and not just in the

00:59:07.240 17th dimension and just totally humiliate satan and and humiliate all these false gods that you 0.94

00:59:13.840 know that islam and judaism and hindu it like and it's like oh no like the christian god not 0.96

00:59:19.180 only was he true um not only was it right um but it was also best it was best and so all that

00:59:26.120 means said i i do think um that there will be more in heaven than in hell but i would argue it through

00:59:32.400 through that kind of, um, path, uh, that said, what do you, what do you think? I'll give it to

00:59:39.840 you, but, uh, what do you think the average Protestant would say? And maybe more particularly,

00:59:43.940 what do you think I would say? Um, if, if you now, you know, just reverse the question, like,

00:59:48.640 do I think all Catholics are going to hell? Well, I know Protestants really don't like 0.98

00:59:53.860 the Catholic church. So you see us as heretics. I would imagine you'd think we're going to hell.

00:59:58.760 I see the Pope as a heretic. 0.63

01:00:01.200 I see him as not the Antichrist, but an Antichrist.

01:00:05.740 First John says there are many Antichrists

01:00:07.300 that have gone out into the world.

01:00:08.480 And so, I mean, that's literally

01:00:09.680 in the traditional reformed confessions.

01:00:12.220 You know, so it's like,

01:00:13.000 it's kind of like part of being reformed.

01:00:15.520 At the same time though, I know what time it is.

01:00:19.420 I don't have to be such a purist that I'm, you know,

01:00:23.920 like just, they're the good autists 0.84

01:00:25.860 and then they're the insufferable ones. 1.00

01:00:27.460 and I'd like to think I'm not one of the latter.

01:00:30.540 So yes, in keeping with Protestant historical reform theology,

01:00:35.120 I would affirm that, but I'll say this.

01:00:37.700 I think you'll like this.

01:00:39.040 I do find it suspicious that the reformers of whom I love,

01:00:43.680 Luther, Calvin, these guys,

01:00:46.200 they're taking all these scriptures like Revelation

01:00:48.520 about synagogues of Satan and the Antichrist.

01:00:51.660 Who is the Antichrist?

01:00:53.180 Like the Bible, the New Testament says,

01:00:54.780 he who denies that Jesus came in the flesh.

01:00:57.460 Catholics don't deny that Jesus came in the flesh. 0.99

01:01:01.220 Jews do. 0.65

01:01:02.380 Like, why is it that reformers, Protestant reformers, 0.95

01:01:05.780 exegeted so many of these scriptures from the Bible

01:01:08.680 to apply to Catholics when the men who wrote them,

01:01:12.800 the apostles, they were applying them to Jews. 1.00

01:01:16.740 Right, right.

01:01:17.780 So the apostles, we know who they were talking about.

01:01:20.220 We know their enemy was not the Pope. 0.95

01:01:22.360 Their enemy was the Judaizers. 0.99

01:01:25.680 It was the Sanhedrin.

01:01:26.760 it's very clear like who's the synagogue of satan hmm i wonder no it's literally a synagogue that's

01:01:32.380 right you know like you know that's what they meant you know and then the reformers are like

01:01:35.900 no it's it was uh they knew that you know a few centuries later it would actually be you know

01:01:41.500 rome and it and and so i i understand how exegesis works i think that uh scripture has one meaning

01:01:47.200 but can have various applications and so i i don't think the i'm reformed so i you know shocker i

01:01:53.380 don't think they were wrong um that said though i think that there is still something for timeless

01:01:58.020 truths and timely truths um right now in this timely moment to think that that catholics are 0.94

01:02:06.520 like the predominant enemy of protestants i think it's just retarded i think it's retarded you know 0.97

01:02:13.460 it's like dude we've got way bigger fish to fry so all that being said um i do think that 0.98

01:02:19.580 Catholicism, uh, contains a number of heresies, but I do think it's also important for Protestants

01:02:26.380 and vice versa for Catholics to distinguish. Um, there's a difference in me, um, dogging on

01:02:32.460 Catholicism versus Catholics, Catholics and Catholicism are two different things. I think

01:02:38.500 that the average Catholic here in America is actually probably a great Christian. Now,

01:02:44.480 personally, I think it's because the average Catholic is a bad Catholic, which makes for a 0.80

01:02:48.560 great christian so i love catholics but yes i i don't like catholicism yeah well and i would say

01:02:56.560 i mean we have a specific admonition according to the pope against what what we would call

01:03:03.340 religious indifferentism and this idea that it's a battle against secularism and what we really

01:03:10.460 need is to rally around religion in general or even christianity in general with protestantism

01:03:17.840 Like, it's very clear from Catholic doctrine, we need to be pro-Catholic.

01:03:23.100 We need to be according, because we view you guys as heretics.

01:03:26.440 But I would agree with you that in this day and age, is not secularism and nihilism the bigger force?

01:03:35.080 Is that not what actually threatens our existence?

01:03:38.020 Islam, Judaism, I mean, like, and people always say, well, like, only 20% of, you know, Jews actually are even practicing Jews.

01:03:45.400 Most of them are secular.

01:03:46.180 and i would say that is judaism right yeah like honestly like in and beyond secularism to put a

01:03:52.540 little bit more of a fine point liberalism i think is largely a jewish product absolutely

01:03:57.300 it is like if i said uh liberalism all these different implications but if i if it was

01:04:03.000 liberalism was the car i would say the engine is like the heartbeat of liberalism is egalitarianism

01:04:09.080 and egalitarianism i do believe uh there's those dots are real easy to connect uh that is the

01:04:15.140 direct result of of judaism that sought to ultimately like dismantle and bring down every

01:04:22.720 form of hierarchy because of this self-preserving and i even get it i like i actually get why you

01:04:28.220 would do that like you don't have your own country you're you're a minority everywhere you go you

01:04:32.500 know and so you're wanting to level the playing field you know and and but i i think that like

01:04:36.800 right now secularism is a big enemy i think right right you know the the foundation of that

01:04:41.700 is this classical liberalism and and classical liberalism the engine of that is egalitarianism

01:04:48.460 and egalitarianism i'm like like yeah sure a lot of white people participated in that but i'm like

01:04:53.560 that's kind of jewish well and why do we have religious pluralism who pushed that so hard

01:05:00.920 it was a lot of jewish activists because who would be against let's say prayer in schools

01:05:08.220 in the 20th century, who would be against stridently the mixing of church and state.

01:05:14.900 It was the Jews who were not Christians, who did not support that for obvious reasons. 0.84

01:05:20.720 That's why they made up the kind of civil rights brigade, ACLU, ADL, these types that said

01:05:27.600 it's actually a form of discrimination to have any kind of explicit Christian culture,

01:05:33.980 even Christian laws for that matter.

01:05:35.700 um so everywhere you look at where the christian tradition or religion has been subverted or 0.52

01:05:42.740 undermined or thrown off in america it is typically these jewish lawyers because they

01:05:47.040 fall outside of that and and the germ of that goes all the way back to baruch spinoza

01:05:51.260 in the 16th century he's the one that introduced biblical criticism and looking at the bible not

01:05:57.240 even as inspired but as criticism right as historical and ripping it apart um in in leading

01:06:04.720 the radical enlightenment in this idea that christianity only serves to bolster the power

01:06:10.340 of the monarchs and it's almost like a marxian interpretation of religion as like uh as a form

01:06:15.920 of power um so it's been there from the beginning they've been leading the charge against it so i

01:06:22.580 totally agree with that it is fundamentally part you know and it's not to say that of course

01:06:28.040 protestants they have been very liberal also and you know and secular types have as well but not

01:06:34.060 all of them but uh the majority yeah and it is the majority but it's inherent in judaism because of

01:06:39.740 the the tension between christian and jewish civilization i mean and it even extends into i

01:06:45.980 would say communism when you look at the organized jewish community throughout european history

01:06:52.080 they hate the catholic church they hate the catholic kings uh they hated the czar of russia 0.68

01:07:00.720 And that's because in every place they resided, the Catholic king tried to forcibly convert them or expelled them or burned their Talmud or segregated them into the Pale of Settlement. 0.83

01:07:13.460 And so everywhere you find rebellion, like against the Spanish king, the Jews were leading the charge. 0.83

01:07:20.740 When you see the invasion of England, the Jews were backing William of Orange because they had been expelled from England for hundreds of years. 0.97

01:07:28.560 When you see the communist revolution in Russia, who goes into the Winter Palace and executes the royal family, the Romanovs? 0.73

01:07:35.940 It's these Jews that hated the czar, Alexander III, Nicholas II. 0.97

01:07:41.260 They hate authority. 0.98

01:07:42.400 Well, and they hate authority, but they also hate Christian authority because it marginalizes them and frequently abuse them.

01:07:51.720 That's fair, but they sought vengeance against them and undermined it.

01:07:56.340 And, and so that's present everywhere in liberalism and communism, the Masonic, Illuminist, Enlightenment, it's there every step of the way in opposition to Christian Western civilization. 0.99

01:08:09.340 I will say this, Protestants, modern Protestants have been just suckers for Zionism, which sucks. It's, you know, that's an L that I have to wear. 0.98

01:08:23.760 But the original protester, you're not a huge fan, I'm sure.

01:08:28.000 But Martin Luther, I mean, the last book he wrote.

01:08:30.660 Yeah. 1.00

01:08:31.280 Jews and Their Lies. 1.00

01:08:32.920 Hashtag, we're so back. 0.99

01:08:35.840 That was pretty, he was so real for that.

01:08:38.320 Yeah.

01:08:38.960 Any final thoughts on this episode?

01:08:41.560 I would just say, you know, I know that Catholics are going to watch this 0.76

01:08:46.500 and they're going to say, you know, Nick didn't go hard enough.

01:08:49.680 He was too nice.

01:08:50.560 Hit me at the end.

01:08:52.000 I'm down.

01:08:52.480 No, and I was going to say and vice versa, but my point is to say to Catholics and Protestants and even the Orthodox bros, anybody, you know, all Christians, for me, if you, like you said, if you believe that Christ was a real person, took flesh, died on the cross, rose again for our salvation, I consider you a brother.

01:09:16.140 I consider you a Christian brother and a friend, and I think we have a lot more in common in the battle than we do, you know, that we disagree on.

01:09:24.340 So I really believe that we have these disagreements and they're fruitful and when it's going to be, there's a dialectic, there's a conversation to be had.

01:09:33.060 But I think politically, we really need to unite and be on the same page because 100% all it takes is you visit the DNC and you see the freak show that's going on. 0.63

01:09:42.900 Or even, honestly, the modern GOP, when they're doing the call to Waheguru and all this Hindu stuff, it's like we really got to stick together.

01:09:51.040 So I'm really pushing a message of unity.

01:09:53.480 Good. Agreed.

01:09:55.420 All right. Well, thank you for your time. Appreciate it.

01:09:57.100 Yeah, thanks for having me.

01:09:57.960 For those of you who may not be aware, I have the immense privilege of also serving as president for a sister organization to NXR Studios, which is a nonprofit 501c3 Christian organization called Right Response Ministries.

01:10:14.220 Our focus with this organization is to train and equip pastors and congregants in the Protestant church, primarily the evangelical church right here in America.

01:10:27.220 What are we trying to train them in? Well, let's just say we're trying to help evangelical Protestant churches in America to stop being so insufferable, to stop being Zionist shills, to be engaged, not apathetic, but activated in the realm of politics and culture. 0.77

01:10:46.400 The things that you've been hearing in this series that myself and Nick Fuentes are talking 0.79

01:10:51.580 about, we want to see Protestant churches right here in America apply these things to

01:10:57.360 get in the game, to win our country back. 0.88

01:11:00.640 We want to see evangelicals and Protestants in America actually be America first, not

01:11:07.800 serving a foreign country at the expense of our own interest, but serving Christ and serving

01:11:14.480 Americans.

01:11:15.460 If you'd like to support us in this mission, we could greatly use your help.

01:11:20.480 You can give a tax-deductible donation by simply going to

01:11:24.280 RightResponseMinistries.com forward slash donate.

01:11:29.940 Again, that's RightResponseMinistries.com forward slash donate.

01:11:36.200 God bless.

The NXR Podcast - February 04, 2026

THE SPECIAL - Catholic vs Protestant (w⧸Nick Fuentes) - EP6

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