The NXR Podcast - THE SPECIAL - Christian Nationalism Meets America First (w⧸Nick Fuentes)

00:00:00.000 Maybe I'm more liberal than you.

00:00:02.620 I don't know what the penalties would be specifically,

00:00:06.520 but I think certainly the government needs to enforce

00:00:11.100 some level of morality within reason.

00:00:15.440 And I think what you're talking about

00:00:16.940 when you say the perpetual indulgence,

00:00:19.680 these are deliberately subversive, morally subversive.

00:00:25.020 There's no positive good where that could be defended.

00:00:28.880 This is just one episode of a 10-part series with perhaps the most controversial man in America, namely Nicholas J. Fuentes.

00:00:39.240 Now, the whole series will eventually be made public right here with one new episode dropping each week on Wednesday.

00:00:48.460 And we're not just talking about Nick's childhood experiences or what he did in college back in the day.

00:00:54.280 No, we're focusing our exclusive attention on what Nick believes.

00:01:00.280 What is it that Nick really thinks about race, women, Trump, Israel, Jews, masculinity, and even more?

00:01:08.640 That's what this series is all about.

00:01:11.240 It's a one-stop shop to focus on the core tenets of Nick Fuentes' beliefs on the major headline issues of our day.

00:01:20.640 Now, you're going to have to wait a total of 10 weeks for this to slow drip out to the public.

00:01:26.620 However, for those of you who may be interested, you can binge watch all 10 episodes ad-free today

00:01:33.380 by heading over to patreon.com and searching NXR Studios.

00:01:39.300 And now, back to our show.

00:01:43.220 This is the first of a 10-part series with Nicholas J. Fuentes.

00:01:49.120 Each episode will drop once per week on Wednesdays at 11 a.m. Central Time.

00:01:56.560 Now, some of you may be wondering, why?

00:02:00.320 Why would you sit down and interview him for over 10 hours?

00:02:05.640 Well, one of the answers is because, to our knowledge, so far, no one else has.

00:02:11.980 We didn't want to just do a one sitting where, hey, tell me about your college experience.

00:02:18.440 Tell me about the time that Ben Shapiro blew up your Twitter account.

00:02:23.320 No, we wanted to have a thorough, one-stop shop, deep dive on the core tenets of the

00:02:31.880 man's actual beliefs.

00:02:34.400 What does he really believe about faith, about politics, about Israel, about America, foreign

00:02:40.560 affairs, men, women, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, the whole nine yards.

00:02:47.060 Now, why?

00:02:47.920 Why does it matter what he believes? Well, because he's not merely the most controversial man in

00:02:54.220 America. For pretty much everyone under the age of 45, he's arguably also the most significant

00:03:01.360 man in America. And whether you love him or hate him, your neighbors are listening to what he has

00:03:10.100 to say. And so why not actually get to the bottom of it? Why not ask the questions that need to be

00:03:17.120 asked, what do you think about every single major headline issue that matters in our day?

00:03:26.460 Now, there's another reason that we chose to do this series with Nick. See, if you had a time

00:03:33.700 machine and you could go back to 2012, 2013, 14, knowing what you know today about Donald Trump,

00:03:41.800 and you could sit down with him back then and interview him for over 10 hours, would you do it?

00:03:48.760 Even people who hate Trump, if they were honest, would say yes. Why? Because you see the man's

00:03:57.440 significance. You can call me stupid and maybe I am. Maybe as time goes on, there'll be egg on my 1.00

00:04:04.020 face. But I think that the energy surrounding Nick Fuentes in 2025 and now 2026 is eerily similar

00:04:14.060 to the energy that was surrounding Trump back in 2015. I'll go ahead and publicly say I have

00:04:20.460 nothing to lose. Maybe I'm wrong, but maybe I'm right. I believe Nick Fuentes will one day either

00:04:27.860 be president, or at minimum, a quintessential kingmaker, with such profound influence that

00:04:35.180 whoever is president won't be able to get there without Nick's support. And if a man really is

00:04:42.140 that significant, if he actually has that kind of momentum, then it behooves us to hear him out.

00:04:50.220 for better or for worse, what does he actually think? And so in this one-stop shop, 10-part

00:04:59.120 series, we get to the bottom of the core tenets of his convictions and beliefs about everything

00:05:06.120 right now in America that seems to matter most. Tune in now. Radical Christian nationalist pastor,

00:05:16.560 Joel Webben.

00:05:17.500 Joel Webben.

00:05:18.780 I'm going to talk about Joel Webben.

00:05:20.700 Joel Webben has been a cat-seller.

00:05:42.120 Nicholas J. Is it J?

00:05:44.520 Yes. 0.92

00:05:45.280 Fuentes.

00:05:45.880 in the flesh. Nice to meet you.

00:05:48.200 Yes, nice to meet you too.

00:05:49.820 So this is actually going to be a 10-part

00:05:52.420 series. It's not just a one and done.

00:05:54.720 You were gracious with your time, came

00:05:56.400 out, spent about half a week with us

00:05:58.560 last fall

00:06:00.160 by the time that this is airing.

00:06:02.180 And we want to do a lot of good

00:06:04.040 with this series. And so it's going to be

00:06:06.200 10 parts and we are reserving

00:06:08.360 nothing. I gave you my word that

00:06:09.840 nothing's going to be behind the paywall

00:06:11.760 or keep it in the vault.

00:06:14.260 you'll never get to see it unless you give us your money uh we are going to um have kind of

00:06:19.380 some of the raw footage available for ad free and early access so if anybody is like you know they're

00:06:26.500 watching this it's the first episode and uh they're like 10 it's 10 parts i want to get it all

00:06:32.340 you know right now so if you want to binge watch it uh you can and we're going to make that available

00:06:36.980 you hear about that a little bit later how to get that um but if you're like no i don't want to have

00:06:41.460 have to pay for it. It will all come out, but we're going to do one at a time. So one episode

00:06:45.920 per week for 10 weeks. So this is probably going to go all the way through halfway into March.

00:06:52.640 So I'm excited. So first thing that I thought that we should talk about is America first

00:06:57.840 and Christian nationalism. You're a Christian nationalist, right? Yes. Okay. So I want to ask

00:07:04.320 you about America first, but first let's start with the Christian nationalist piece. Obviously

00:07:09.360 They both run into each other.

00:07:11.540 When you say you're a Christian nationalist, what do you mean by that?

00:07:15.680 I believe that America is a Christian nation, which is sort of in the name.

00:07:20.560 Christian nationalist, America is a Christian nation.

00:07:23.360 And I think that Christianity is an essential part of America's identity.

00:07:29.800 Fundamentally, I think that America should have a Christian government,

00:07:32.960 is what I think that ultimately comes down to. 0.81

00:07:35.140 And, um, if you want to get very specific and detailed about it, I believe that only 1.00

00:07:41.680 Christians should be legislators, judges, and in the executive branch. 1.00

00:07:46.600 Amen.

00:07:47.140 I think that if Christianity is right and true, if God has law, then our government

00:07:52.220 should follow that.

00:07:53.040 I think that's historically our, our identity.

00:07:55.120 I think that's the truth.

00:07:56.780 I think that's consistent with what our civilization is.

00:07:59.840 So I would start there.

00:08:01.340 I think that we should have a, uh, a fully Christian government.

00:08:05.140 What do you think? I agree wholeheartedly. Lex Rex, the law is above the king. I'm actually

00:08:11.240 comfortable with the king. I think just because of America's founding in history,

00:08:16.100 I think we could functionally get there, but I don't think we would ever call someone a king.

00:08:20.900 You know, it's just not in our blood as Americans. There's an aversion to that. But even if there was

00:08:26.520 a monarch, the law of God is still ultimately the ruler. Lex Rex, the law above the king.

00:08:33.260 in terms of the law of God, we have all these statutes throughout the Old Testament and then

00:08:38.480 many of them restated and some new ones in the New Testament. But the summary of the law would

00:08:44.560 be the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments, Exodus chapter 20. That really summarizes the law. And

00:08:50.160 then Jesus summarizes it even further when he says, you know, the first and greatest commandment

00:08:54.480 is to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, strength. And the second is like it,

00:08:59.440 that we should love our neighbor as ourself. All of the law, he continues, and the prophets

00:09:04.500 hinge, they rest on these two commandments. So the way I see it is, you know, Jesus is love God,

00:09:11.460 love neighbor. That being a summary of a summary, being the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments,

00:09:17.020 the Ten Commandments, there's 10 of them, but really they fall into two tables. You have the

00:09:22.260 first four of the Ten Commandments. Now I know Catholics and Protestants, we count them a little 0.98

00:09:25.740 differently. But in the Protestant case, it's the first four of the Ten Commandments are in regards

00:09:31.860 to how to love God. Have no other gods before me. Don't make graven images. Don't take the Lord's

00:09:36.900 name in vain. And remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. The next six is love for neighbor. It's

00:09:42.540 honor your father and mother. Don't murder. Don't commit adultery. Don't steal. Don't bear false

00:09:48.000 witness. And don't covet. And so Jesus says, love God. Love neighbor. The Ten Commandments. This is

00:09:54.340 how to love god with a little bit more specificity and how to love neighbor and then everything else

00:10:00.340 uh all these old testament civil statues they they ultimately fall underneath one of the ten

00:10:05.780 commandments whether it's a parapet around the border of your roof right you have to have like

00:10:10.420 this this railing well that's they don't have hvac during the summer months they're sleeping on the

00:10:16.100 roof and you're loving your neighbor by making sure he doesn't fall off in the middle of the

00:10:20.180 the night and break his leg you know so even that you can root to the commandment the sixth

00:10:24.640 commandment thou shalt not murder stated in the positive sense would be uh thou shalt protect and

00:10:29.800 esteem the safety and dignity of human life so we can look at that even in our western context and

00:10:35.800 say uh well that's silly that's that's uh primitive you know you bible thumpers well we have laws about 0.99

00:10:42.200 speed limits and seat belts and like and and you know we're just not up on the roof anymore but 1.00

00:10:47.600 find me a two-story balcony in anybody's home that doesn't have a railing right and if it didn't

00:10:53.040 eventually there'd probably be a legal issue so it's it's not that different you know we're we're

00:10:59.040 like that uh still to this day so if we're going to have laws i'd like to see them modeled

00:11:06.000 off of the scripture so my question i guess to you though is this is where i see a lot of christians

00:11:11.200 start to say well not that um the first table of the law a lot of guys will say yeah we need laws

00:11:17.600 as it pertains to a loving neighbor,

00:11:20.140 protecting his safety, these kinds of things. 0.94

00:11:22.460 But I don't want blasphemy laws. 0.99

00:11:24.560 Like what about, you know, like, 0.62

00:11:26.160 so the first of the 10 commandments,

00:11:28.020 we can't have that all 10 commandments on a courthouse.

00:11:31.040 It's like, well, I have bad news for you.

00:11:33.620 We can't do that because freedom of religion,

00:11:36.340 which I look at freedom of religion

00:11:37.640 and at some level as a Christian, I'm like,

00:11:40.700 so freedom for idolatry?

00:11:43.040 Like, I mean, what is that other than like,

00:11:45.080 Hey, in America, we protect the freedom 0.80

00:11:47.880 for people to worship sand demons

00:11:50.000 and erect 90-foot-tall statues to some false god. 0.81

00:11:56.740 I think that we've always had blasphemy laws.

00:11:59.500 It's not whether but which.

00:12:02.060 And I'm not saying some kid who says JC should go to jail,

00:12:06.260 but like the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence,

00:12:08.860 gyrating in front of a man dressed up like Christ

00:12:11.160 on a cross in a public parade.

00:12:14.000 Believe it or not, jail.

00:12:15.780 Right away, jail.

00:12:16.920 Right, right.

00:12:17.280 Would you agree with that?

00:12:18.660 I would.

00:12:19.480 I think I would agree with that.

00:12:20.740 And I think that it's interesting how people in this country have such an aversion to anything that looks or sounds like that.

00:12:29.460 But you look at very modern countries in the Middle East, for example, like the United Arab Emirates.

00:12:36.240 People go to Dubai, and this is a hotspot for the world's rich, for entertainers.

00:12:41.420 and a lot of people go there who are pretty secular and pretty liberal but everybody knows

00:12:47.960 that when you go to dubai or riyadh uh for that matter any of these gulf countries which are very

00:12:53.060 wealthy very modern technologically sophisticated and cosmopolitan even everybody knows the rules

00:13:00.100 and the rules are you don't disrespect islam and the whole country abides by that and there's laws

00:13:06.900 governing public displays of affection, modesty, all kinds of things. And nobody seems to have a

00:13:12.680 problem because they know they don't mess around there. They take the religion seriously. And when

00:13:17.240 you land at that airport, everybody knows you got to play by those rules. And people seem to be okay

00:13:22.080 with that. But for some reason in America, even the insinuation that you might have something like

00:13:29.780 that for Christ, for the church, people say it's the handmaiden's tale. It's Gilead. This is

00:13:36.140 regressive. What is this, the Middle Ages? And maybe I'm more liberal than you. I don't know 0.75

00:13:44.740 what the penalties would be specifically, but I think certainly the government needs to enforce

00:13:52.080 some level of morality within reason. And I think what you're talking about when you say the

00:13:58.780 perpetual indulgence, these are deliberately subversive, morally subversive. There's no

00:14:06.980 positive good where that could be defended. I don't know that I would outlaw, let's say, heresy

00:14:13.280 because there should be room for religious debate. It's like there always has been in the church or

00:14:19.200 at different councils and things like that. But something that is deliberately and intentionally

00:14:24.140 meant to blaspheme and offend God and the morals of any decent person, I don't think there's any

00:14:31.220 basis for that. And so, of course, in America, at the same time, we have a tradition of freedom

00:14:37.460 of speech, but maybe we need to articulate what the basis of free speech is. Why is free speech

00:14:43.060 good? If free speech is good insofar as we could debate about what form of government is best or

00:14:48.740 what kind of society we should have. I'm willing to be more liberal when it comes to things like

00:14:54.620 that. But filth, like pornography, for example, that's not political speech. And I don't think

00:15:03.580 there's anything positively good. I don't even actually consider it speech. It's not religious

00:15:08.080 speech either. Although I have seen some Jews say that both abortion and pornography are Jewish

00:15:14.160 religious sacraments which is interesting very interesting so so i tend to agree i don't like i 0.83

00:15:21.540 said i'm probably not as conservative when it comes to religious law as maybe you are or some

00:15:28.340 protestants or even for that matter some traditional catholics who say there should be

00:15:32.200 no freedom of religion which is i think what you're saying uh but i certainly think that

00:15:36.660 there should be some basic standards like they have in russia or any other country so for my

00:15:43.240 position, I think that it's just, um, there are degrees. So, um, so like Tom Cruise, minority

00:15:49.980 report, like, I don't want, you know, we're predicting crimes and even policing. Um, when I

00:15:56.320 think of old Testament Israel, um, the actual Jews, uh, you know, I think of, you know, there's

00:16:03.520 not really a police system, right? So there's, there's punitive justice, uh, but they're not

00:16:08.340 going around uh you know with the back to the parapet you know the border on the roof um there's

00:16:13.880 there's no at least no recording uh in the old testament of the parapet committee you know that

00:16:20.020 would go house to house you know annually to measure and make sure that they hit the metrics

00:16:25.600 it's like um you need to have a parapet and if you don't uh then you get arrested no uh if you don't

00:16:33.580 then you're liable if something happens, right?

00:16:37.480 So if you don't have a border on your roof

00:16:39.860 and nobody ever gets hurt, no harm, no foul.

00:16:42.820 If somebody does get hurt and you had a border,

00:16:45.680 then it's on them.

00:16:46.800 If they do get hurt and you didn't have a border,

00:16:49.720 now you're liable.

00:16:50.880 The same with like a bull, you know,

00:16:53.440 that's accustomed to gore. 0.54

00:16:55.540 Well, you could have a violent bull,

00:16:58.360 but if nobody gets gored, you're okay.

00:17:00.600 But if they do, and you've already,

00:17:03.320 you've known and that that can be proven in a court that you knew that this was a dangerous

00:17:09.000 animal and it hurts someone, then it's not just that the animal, the bull is stoned according to

00:17:15.180 the Old Testament and so is the owner. Personally, the general equity of that principle, I'll get

00:17:20.980 some flack for this, but I'd apply it to pit bulls. You can have a pit bull, but that dog

00:17:27.500 is genetically bred in such a way that it is extremely dangerous, especially to children.

00:17:34.780 And so you can own a pit bull. In America, you can own a tiger if you want. But if you own a

00:17:41.340 golden retriever and it has a really bad day and does something tragic, the golden retriever is

00:17:47.460 put to death and you're probably going to have to go to court and those kinds of things. But I don't

00:17:51.500 think you get locked in jail but you have a pit bull that has that reputation um and the pit bull 0.56

00:17:58.540 kills you know two little five-year-old girls the pit bull gets put down and so do you

00:18:03.180 that would be my position so i say all that to say one there are degrees um but two uh also just

00:18:10.700 the system itself it's less of uh policing so there's actually a lot of freedom like people

00:18:15.560 like well i don't want the government you know to tell me what to do in my bedroom well the

00:18:19.200 government currently tells you how to build your bedroom, right? The studs have to be this many

00:18:22.940 inches between, like we police everything. And it's also costly. Like when you think of just how

00:18:28.640 much, you know, management is required, you know, how many taxes we're spending for people to tell

00:18:34.520 us every single thing to do. But a system that's punitive and retributive, rather than, you know,

00:18:42.700 constantly trying to predict and stop crimes before they even occur. And then in terms of

00:18:47.080 degrees the last thing i would say is um we're not talking about the muslim police that go into 0.89

00:18:52.280 private homes and are rounding people up uh so a lot of this for me when it comes to the first

00:18:57.320 table of law um and things like idolatry and false religions um that the major factor there would be

00:19:03.640 there's a difference between sins and crimes and i think you have to have that category that

00:19:07.560 distinction um there's plenty of sin i have sin um but the state uh has no business in punishing

00:19:15.400 sin that belongs to the church, whether it's confession or whether it's excommunication or

00:19:19.940 barred from the sacraments or whatever it may be. For a time, sin is dealt with by ultimately God

00:19:27.720 and through the avenue of the church. Crimes are dealt with by the state. And there are some sins

00:19:32.060 that biblically speaking are not crimes. It is a sin, but it's not a crime. So I would say

00:19:37.600 Muslims worshiping in their homes is not a crime. Muslims erecting a 90-foot tall statue outside of

00:19:44.500 Houston. I think that's a crime. And I think people involved with that should have some kind 1.00

00:19:49.300 of penalty, whether it's a fine, this, that, or the other. And the statue should be ground to dust.

00:19:54.260 We don't do that here. This is America. We're a Christian nation. Say Christ is Lord.

00:19:59.320 That would be my view. So now giving it a little bit more specificity,

00:20:03.760 what do you think about that? I like that. I like that approach because I think when people

00:20:08.840 when people hear moral law they hear moral police that's what they hear right and they what they

00:20:16.680 think about is uh that you're gonna have inquisitors kicking down the door if somebody's

00:20:22.320 watching an r-rated movie right or something like that which i think anybody would be opposed to and

00:20:26.700 rightly so i believe in liberty right and i think that part of that comes with i also like the

00:20:32.100 distinction of crime and sin people do have the liberty to sin and that's why we have the sacraments

00:20:36.800 because we're going to sin and we don't want to sin and we try not to, but it's not a crime to

00:20:42.460 do that. And we're supposed to be given a chance to repent and to spiritually grow. So I do like

00:20:49.100 that distinction. And I don't know that I would necessarily agree with the death penalty in many

00:20:56.180 or even most cases. I tend to be anti-death penalty in almost all except for terrorists or...

00:21:03.100 What about murder?

00:21:05.440 It depends on the type of murder.

00:21:07.640 I didn't know this about you.

00:21:08.860 Yeah, I think even murder should be spared, yeah.

00:21:11.120 Really, why?

00:21:12.440 Because I think they should be given a chance.

00:21:13.720 So you really like the current Pope then, huh?

00:21:16.340 Because he just said that.

00:21:17.520 Yeah, I tend to think that the death penalty

00:21:20.840 is no longer totally necessary.

00:21:23.540 I think in the old days, 0.98

00:21:24.740 you literally needed to kill these people 0.99

00:21:26.640 because you really couldn't accommodate them 1.00

00:21:30.460 in prison forever.

00:21:32.100 But now I think that society can accommodate that.

00:21:34.680 And I think that only the most heinous crimes should be punished by death.

00:21:38.860 I think everybody else that should be given the room, one, I do really worry about the

00:21:44.400 killing of innocent people that are falsely convicted.

00:21:46.780 Yeah, that's true.

00:21:47.680 That's a huge part of it.

00:21:48.540 But also I think that people should be given a chance to repent.

00:21:52.220 And I don't think those are necessarily our lives to take, even for the government.

00:21:56.600 So I tend to be more, and maybe that's because I'm a political dissident.

00:22:00.120 so I'm a little biased.

00:22:01.680 I tend to get anxious when I think about the government

00:22:04.820 having license to freely kill people, you know?

00:22:07.120 That's going to be me.

00:22:08.360 They do it anyway, I suppose, extrajudicially all the time.

00:22:11.900 But no, I tend to be more against the death penalty than for it.

00:22:16.840 At the foot of Mount Sinai,

00:22:19.080 a nation met its God in thunder and fire.

00:22:23.380 From that covenant flowed the faith of Abraham,

00:22:26.980 Moses, and the prophets, 0.69

00:22:28.540 Fulfilled, not replaced, in Christ

00:22:32.240 But somewhere between the martyrs and the modern West

00:22:37.060 The truth was blurred

00:22:38.760 Politicians and pastors began speaking of

00:22:42.300 A Judeo-Christian civilization

00:22:45.000 A phrase born not of Sinai, but in Washington 0.75

00:22:50.240 Tracing its roots not to Moses, but to the Pharisees

00:22:54.300 the hyphenated heresy challenges the myth of the hyphen tracing how it reshaped christian

00:23:02.200 identity redefined the church's witness and bound modern faith to political zionism pick up your

00:23:09.960 copy today on amazon.com okay so with the death penalty um i you know i have to go on record and

00:23:20.640 saying uh in the case of murder i think that the death penalty is not only permissible but

00:23:24.500 biblically speaking i i think that it's mandated um uh and i root that not just in the decalogue

00:23:30.780 but the no way covenant and if any man takes another man's life he forfeits his own so but

00:23:37.260 as it pertains to what we were talking about just right before that um so so sins versus crimes

00:23:43.220 not policing you know that made you feel like okay i can see that um in terms of now like uh

00:23:49.540 degrees of punishment and the death penalty being the highest capital punishment. The way that I

00:23:56.040 read the Old Testament, because in the Old Testament, it's not just murder, right? Genesis

00:24:00.660 9, Noahic Covenant, that's there. But then you start getting into Leviticus and, you know,

00:24:04.900 numbers. And it's like, if you carry, you know, a bundle of sticks on the Sabbath,

00:24:12.280 you know, like, you know, an unruly son who's disrespectful, who strikes his father, you know,

00:24:18.860 in rebellion death. Um, I mean, I'll, I'll admit as a Christian pastor, I've read the Bible once

00:24:24.460 or twice. And, uh, yeah, I mean, the death penalty is pretty, uh, God's pretty generous

00:24:30.040 with that. Um, and one thing that really helped me, I remember reading one theologian

00:24:37.760 and, uh, well, actually, uh, his name is, um, Rush Duny and, and he, and he talked about like,

00:24:45.660 uh, so think of it like this, uh, the state of Texas, like you'll see, you know, don't mess with

00:24:49.360 Texas, which sadly I can tell you, um, you can absolutely mess with Texas. Texas is a pretty

00:24:56.340 limp wristed, uh, sadly, but, um, you know, don't mess with Texas, don't litter. And, and you'll see

00:25:01.320 the signs and it's like littering can be penalized up to. And so it's like the, the implication is

00:25:07.460 there's a scale. And so it's like up to $5,000 fine or, you know, two years in prison. But I

00:25:13.580 personally, I don't know about you, but I don't know anybody who's currently doing hard time,

00:25:16.880 you know, for throwing away a candy wrapper out of the car window. Um, but I think the reason is

00:25:22.520 there is because you like, even though it's, it seems silly, like nobody would do that. I mean,

00:25:27.540 there are some actually retarded people in the world who might, um, it, I think of the repeat 1.00

00:25:32.420 offender, you know? So it's like, it's one thing if it's like, you know, you throw a candy wrapper 1.00

00:25:37.480 out. But like, what if you've been pulled over, you know, like 47 times this year for littering

00:25:44.100 and, and then, and then you got bigger and bigger to where you're like you're burning all of your

00:25:48.880 trash and rubber tires in the back backyard to own the libs, you know, meanwhile, you're literally

00:25:53.620 destroying the earth. And then, you know, and, and it's just more and more, well, eventually it's

00:25:58.320 like, yeah, I think you actually should go to prison. Even then I wouldn't say the death penalty,

00:26:02.400 but when I look at all these old Testament laws outside of murder, life for life, eye for eye,

00:26:07.040 tooth for tooth. I think that's proportional justice. But in those cases where it's not

00:26:11.380 murder, you're not taking a life. I think the death penalty is often cited, but I think it's

00:26:16.220 cited kind of like the litter sign in Texas. I think it's cited as a maximum penalty and would

00:26:22.360 be reserved. Like as I've studied, if a son strikes his father in rebellion, he's put to death.

00:26:27.880 I've read like a bunch of historians, different guys. There's actually not one case in all of

00:26:32.260 old testament uh israel's history of that ever being carried out so it's like here's this law

00:26:37.440 but and i don't think it's just that it wasn't enforced i think they knew right we have what's

00:26:43.260 inscripturated we don't have all the side conversations and things like that i think

00:26:47.020 they knew like this is not just like a five-year-old throwing a tantrum right this is

00:26:51.760 and even next to it says or if he is a drunkard it's not talking about a little kid it's talking

00:26:57.000 about a grown man with his elderly parents publicly shaming mom and dad, which is debauchery

00:27:03.380 and rebellion. And likely, I think we're meant to assume repeat offender. He's been brought,

00:27:08.680 you know, before the elders in Israel and told he needs to get in line. And he's just, there's

00:27:13.660 zero restraint. And, um, and it's not just a personal insult, like slap one cheek, turn the

00:27:19.200 other. Uh, but he's, he's violent. He's dangerous. He's a liability. Um, he's criminal. Um, and I

00:27:26.240 think yeah uh that to the nth degree uh can go all the way up although they never had to enforce it 1.00

00:27:33.520 but could theoretically go all the way up to death that helps me like when i think of homosexuals 0.98

00:27:37.800 for instance it's like joel so do you think uh all homosexuals should be uh stoned it's like well 0.95

00:27:43.020 bullets are little stones you know like that you know like i don't think we have to pick up but no 0.90

00:27:47.120 i'm being facetious no i i don't um but i think that there um i think it's a sin and i think that

00:27:53.180 it can become a crime. So it's one thing if it's two guys, that's how the whole slippery slope

00:27:59.920 happened. They're like, oh, it's just, we just want the same rights as you. Yeah. But then you

00:28:04.600 gave them an inch and now it's like, hey, kids in the public library, sit in my lap as I'm dressed 0.99

00:28:09.840 up as a drag queen and we're going to put porn in all of your books. And we're going to like, 0.98

00:28:13.860 yeah. So I think like, or, or in New York, a gay pride parade with grown men with their,

00:28:18.460 their genitalia hanging out in front of children on the side like like okay now now we're talking 0.95

00:28:24.080 about a crime right you know and even then i'm not saying immediately it has to but a crime some 0.82

00:28:29.780 kind of penalty and then are they so brazen they turn around next year and do it again right you

00:28:35.300 know and do it again what do you do if it's like the 10th year anniversary they've been doing it

00:28:39.700 for a decade running every single time you find them or you did that like eventually um there has

00:28:45.440 to be a harsher penalty so that's even that i know a lot of our listeners would be like that's

00:28:49.540 hardcore but like um just just i think it helps honestly because a lot of people will point to

00:28:54.800 the old testament god's punishment they'll say he's severe he's too harsh i i like fleshing this

00:29:00.120 out if nothing else just to um just to to defend the character of god that like god actually isn't

00:29:07.620 harsh um he he knew what he was doing he knew what he was thinking and there are conceivable even in

00:29:13.680 our modern society there are conceivable situations um and our our mind immediately

00:29:20.180 goes again to the five-year-old kid who said dad i'm mad at you that's not what the old testament

00:29:24.980 was talking about any thoughts on that yeah i think that's very helpful because i i think there

00:29:30.520 is rightly so maybe i think there is such an aversion to that in the public consciousness

00:29:36.020 the idea of an executioner swinging an axe um because of you know and you're protestant because

00:29:43.020 someone said a swear word like that's the kind of thing that people think right and i can't help it

00:29:48.980 me being from a very liberal city like chicago and even growing up in a suburb that was pretty

00:29:55.620 liberal and permissive i think and as an american there's just sort of a natural aversion to that

00:30:01.780 um and to kind of an extremely punitive justice system and i have to tell you as a christian

00:30:07.980 i don't come away from the gospel thinking that the state uh should be liberal with murder should

00:30:15.560 or should be liberal let's say with the death penalty i i with that being said believe that

00:30:21.420 people should be put in prison there should be a lot more people in prison and i've said before

00:30:27.300 on my show i think the prisons should be made more humane because then we could put more people

00:30:32.900 there for longer the reason that we don't like prison a lot is because the prison is like uh

00:30:38.920 you can die in prison you get raped in prison um it's it's inhumane in some ways but i think that

00:30:47.160 we should make them maybe more modern and nicer so we feel comfortable sending people there so that

00:30:53.180 they can be rehabilitated i do believe that we should have a society that's forgiving but i also

00:30:58.140 agree that what you're describing i don't think anybody has a problem with in principle which is

00:31:02.880 that um people that cannot get along in society should be removed from society whether that's put

00:31:10.340 in a box forever or whether they get the death penalty or banishment or ban or right ostracism 0.83

00:31:17.260 banishment exile anything like that um and it is helpful to think of the worst case scenario

00:31:24.380 because i think you you strike me as a warm-hearted person i'm a warm-hearted person

00:31:29.120 And I don't think that society should be looking to inflict punishment on people.

00:31:35.180 However, evil exists.

00:31:37.940 And it is instructive to think of the worst case examples.

00:31:41.360 Like as a Catholic, I think of Satanists who will go and steal one of the blessed hosts.

00:31:47.720 They'll go and steal the bread during the mass and use it in a black mass or to desecrate it. 0.98

00:31:54.560 And someone who is doing that, I think, should get the death penalty. 0.94

00:31:57.920 because that that is the body of christ um so you know maybe coming at it from a different 0.96

00:32:04.380 point of view like yeah different point i can understand it but i do appreciate that although

00:32:07.720 we have different views on the sacraments i do appreciate that because that's not the satan is

00:32:11.580 physically hurting any person neighbor uh but that's actually a desecration of god according

00:32:17.500 to the catholic view so that would be a first table you know like love the lord right and and

00:32:22.520 i appreciate that because even with among protestants like i've gotten a lot of pushback

00:32:27.440 a lot of protestants who are like devout in love love the lord and want to see america be a

00:32:33.700 christian nation they still there's just something in their american dna um when i would argue

00:32:39.540 modern american um because america wasn't actually always this way america had i mean

00:32:44.120 we had blue laws sabbath laws we had we had blasphemy laws right so it's it's not even just

00:32:50.140 once upon a time in israel um no it's like it's been done before it's been done recently and it's

00:32:55.640 been done here right it actually is american actually is hasn't been for a little while but

00:33:00.740 actually is but yet what i'm saying is that a lot of these protestants who really love god are not

00:33:05.640 questioning that and really want the country to be christian they still um the anything within

00:33:12.240 the first table so they would differ from you they'd be like yeah murder is capital punishment

00:33:16.900 um but but the example that you gave like something that's um that's exclusively only a

00:33:22.920 death desecrate uh um you know blaspheming the church blaspheming christ they would say well

00:33:28.540 yeah that's really bad and and um that should be frowned upon but uh the state has no business

00:33:33.660 enforcing any kind of moral law of god um within the first table of the law love um love the lord

00:33:41.600 your god don't don't make any graven images don't take his name in vain remember the sabbath and

00:33:46.280 the fact that you actually have like a case study that would fall in that category is based. I like

00:33:52.680 it. Good. So, well, yeah, because that's something that can never be excused or pardoned with good

00:34:01.380 intent. Nobody would accidentally, that is so intentional and so malicious. Nobody would

00:34:06.760 accidentally conspire to take the blessed sacrament and desecrate it in an evil ritual

00:34:13.200 by accident or with good intent or i mean that's just evil yeah i could see a couple protestants

00:34:20.580 doing that yeah i suppose because how dare you extremely anti-capitalia sure yeah um you know

00:34:28.580 but uh yeah so i i could understand that in some cases i just think it's also important to preserve

00:34:34.460 like let's be honest we and i agree with you 60 years ago we had some very intense laws on the

00:34:41.600 books about sodomy about race mixing about blasphemy pornography was was effectively

00:34:46.940 illegal uh for a long time there was a case with larry flint which is what made it more permissive

00:34:51.900 and i think that we've clearly just gone way too far in the opposite direction yes i don't want to

00:34:57.040 go back to the middle ages i don't even necessarily want to go back to the 1800s but i think that we

00:35:04.240 have definitely just gone so far in the opposite direction where anyone can recognize you go into

00:35:09.420 the city square and it's nudity weed public intoxication public displays of affection and

00:35:16.420 by that i mean in some cases people are having sex openly in public people are naked protesting

00:35:21.640 in portland and uh this is not a decent society we want to live in and i agree that once it crosses

00:35:28.700 into scandal scandalizing others children it's offending other people trespassing on the commons

00:35:36.100 I think that does then become subject to the law.

00:35:38.780 Yeah.

00:35:39.160 And I like what you said even about that slippery slope.

00:35:42.880 They talk about the privacy of their own homes.

00:35:46.180 It's sort of paradoxical because they were never arguing for discretion.

00:35:51.200 They were never arguing for let us be private.

00:35:54.200 It was always, whether it was homosexuals or anything for that matter, they wanted to bring it out into the public. 0.99

00:36:01.460 Correct.

00:36:01.720 And for it to be tolerated, openly acknowledged. And so it's sort of strange because that's the argument people always use is, well, what about privacy? I don't think anyone has a problem with discretion and privacy. They have a problem with what it is now, which is loud and proud, public, vulgar for the sake of it, transgressive and offensive, provocative for the sake of it. And why would a decent society tolerate that?

00:36:28.500 and predatory yes with children yeah malevolent yeah i agree um last thing that i would do like

00:36:35.700 as you know i i would absolutely call myself a christian nationalist and i helped you know with

00:36:39.620 a group of guys and writing a statement on christian nationalism a few years back

00:36:43.700 last thing that i would do there's a million things but you know big macro picture um so

00:36:48.580 legislation laws we've talked about that um i think you know one of the uh not so rare sadly uh

00:36:57.540 founders l's um is i i think uh they should have more explicitly named the lord jesus christ

00:37:05.940 and so i actually like the constitution um i i just i don't think that we can i'm not hopeful

00:37:13.380 that we can get back to it you know that'd be great to just constitution even harder you know

00:37:18.180 but it just hasn't been working out for us for quite a while i don't think we're going to be

00:37:21.860 be able to just vote our way out of it. I think some, if, if history, you know, is any bearing,

00:37:27.540 I think something else is going to happen. But I do like the constitution. I think you would have

00:37:33.280 to get back to authorial intent with the first amendment and those kinds of things, you know,

00:37:37.200 like Congress shall make no religion. So yeah. So Congress at a federal level, no, I don't think

00:37:43.540 that the state can come and say, we're going to have a national church and it's going to be this

00:37:48.660 particular strength is going to be episcopalian and all the presbyterians and all the catholics

00:37:53.060 and all the baptists are going to be punished i think that's un-american and uh and i think that

00:37:58.560 was probably included in in the realm of thought of the founders um but what was probably not their

00:38:05.000 authorial intent that they weren't thinking about at all i don't think they could even conceive of

00:38:09.100 like millions of hindus you know what i mean right millions of muslims um i when the first amendment 0.85

00:38:16.280 was written, I don't think they were saying, we want to make sure that in Minnesota, an entire 0.99

00:38:23.760 town could be overrun by Muslims and they could set up, you know, statues and have prayer sirens

00:38:30.480 and calls to prayer. Like, if they knew that that was going to happen, I think like 1.00

00:38:35.700 the first amendment would look a little bit different, you know? So when they say freedom

00:38:40.620 of religion and those kinds of things, I think, you know, I've read even some commentators on that,

00:38:45.680 like early commentators, it was freedom in regards to various expressions of worship

00:38:51.840 toward our common Lord. You know what I mean? That Catholics and Protestants wouldn't kill each

00:38:59.020 other. That Baptists and Presbyterians wouldn't try to drown each other. I don't think it was

00:39:05.980 so that millions of Muslims can live here and worship a sand demon. I don't think that's what

00:39:11.820 So if we can get back to authorial intent, then I mostly like the Constitution.

00:39:16.980 First Ten Amendments are pretty good.

00:39:18.660 Some of the latter ones I'd like to revisit, you know.

00:39:20.760 But last thing, though, is I do think like a preamble.

00:39:24.640 I would love to see like the Nicene Creed adopted as a preamble to the Constitution where we are.

00:39:32.680 And I like creeds.

00:39:34.320 I like confessions.

00:39:35.820 You know, I like the Westminster.

00:39:36.920 I like the 1689, you know.

00:39:38.440 um but i like creedal uh because it's more encompassing a creed is is precisely specific

00:39:45.320 enough to where um no non-christian can affirm it but also intentionally general enough to where

00:39:52.500 the christians don't turn on each other right like you like the nicene creed i do i like the

00:39:57.200 nicene creed so that seems like a good you know like so like right before we get to the constitution

00:40:03.460 let's start with that name the lord jesus christ then let's have the first 10 amendments and the

00:40:09.520 actual authorial intent let's maybe get rid of a few of the latter ones or amend them and you know

00:40:16.000 and then let's actually legislate not a deep police state but with gradations and using prudence

00:40:21.940 and also compassion um and recognizing that uh the first table of the law um actually some of those

00:40:28.080 things are not just sins but crimes and then other things are just sins and then the state has no

00:40:32.500 business in it and by god we could have our home again you know it'd be really nice so that's to

00:40:38.340 me christian nationalism america first can you talk to us about that yes um you know i call

00:40:45.620 myself america first because when we talk about who we are you know what is our grouping people

00:40:51.860 tend to say we're conservative or right wing right right and i heard that my whole life and i always

00:40:57.580 identified as a conservative or libertarian or right wing or something and these are terms that

00:41:03.000 increasingly don't really have meaning what actually does that mean and and people have to

00:41:06.960 ask themselves what is a conservative because now we're being told it's conservative to be

00:41:12.140 a religious pluralist in favor of multiracialism in favor it's like so what what actually people

00:41:18.460 ask are we even conserving or serious about conserving and then people get to something like

00:41:24.060 well being a conservative is being a liberal it's being a a right liberal a classical liberal right

00:41:30.860 it's like okay so is conservatism even a tangible thing and i look at myself in the context of what

00:41:40.800 has happened in the past 30 years which is globalization and the globalization of the

00:41:46.040 government with the supranational institutions like the imf the world bank the united nations

00:41:51.760 These institutions that sit on top of our government, as well as the influence of foreign interests, multinational corporations, foreign intelligence agencies, the globalization of the population with open borders, immigrants pouring in.

00:42:07.220 And this is even, to your point, about the intention of the Constitution.

00:42:11.980 Was it intended for there to be millions of Indians, Chinese, and foreigners here?

00:42:17.780 The answer is no.

00:42:18.560 We're becoming globalized in terms of the demographics and the globalization of the economy through free trade, which is the interdependence of the United States with China, Mexico, Canada, these supply chains which make us dependent on other countries.

00:42:34.600 And so it's in the context of globalization that I don't feel like a conservative where they're preoccupied with limiting the size of government or vague appeals to family values, which become more vague and generic all the time.

00:42:50.060 You could say that 20 years ago to be conservative was to be Christian.

00:42:54.660 Now in 2025, if you ask Turning Point USA, they say it's ethical monotheism.

00:43:01.760 They have to say that to accommodate Jews, Muslims, Hindus.

00:43:05.720 That's terrible.

00:43:06.560 Right.

00:43:06.780 What are you conserving?

00:43:08.160 It's like arguably 100 years ago, maybe it was some, maybe it was Presbyterian or Episcopalian,

00:43:14.100 like a very American denomination.

00:43:15.820 then it became like well we're one nation under god christian god now it's like ethical monotheism

00:43:23.660 i wonder what it'll be like in a hundred years when we have like polytheism pagans it'll just

00:43:28.180 be like uh all all they'd be like deists or something um and so anyway i look at conservatives

00:43:36.360 as basically they're just not speaking the same language anymore um it doesn't seem to have a

00:43:44.040 hard definition. It doesn't seem to have answers for the actual problems affecting real Americans.

00:43:50.360 I said, so my real ideology, which is something I was searching for in 2016 when Trump was elected,

00:43:57.020 when Trump ran in 16, he didn't say I'm the most conservative. He didn't say I'm the most

00:44:03.800 right wing or the most Republican. He said, I'm America first. He said, this is about globalism

00:44:10.100 and nationalism not liberals and conservatives democrats republicans it's about globalists

00:44:16.260 internationalists and nationalists people that want to put the american people first

00:44:20.800 and in his inaugural that's where i got the name of my show and just funny story when i started my

00:44:28.300 show with right side broadcasting network they asked me what i wanted to call the show and my

00:44:32.800 first instinct was the nicholas j fuentes show and they said well that's too long no one knows

00:44:37.780 who you are no one knows your name i was like okay uh they said so you need something shorter

00:44:43.800 something different and i really had no idea a month later trump gave his inaugural and in the

00:44:50.180 inaugural he said a new vision will govern our land it's going to be only america first yeah

00:44:55.020 and i heard that and i said that's it like that and it's because that really encapsulates

00:45:02.640 who we are when i say we and like our kind of people and they the people that are against us

00:45:09.980 it's those that want to that have a sense of american identity that it's about the american

00:45:15.180 people and their history their heritage going all the way back even before the founding right before

00:45:21.140 the settlement of the north american continent where we come from who we really are and putting

00:45:27.360 that first, that that's the priority, explicitly identifying as Americans. And even what was the

00:45:34.580 point of the border wall? Yes, it's to keep foreigners out. But I thought it was bigger 1.00

00:45:39.600 than that. It was a tangible representation that said, this is America. That is the rest of the

00:45:47.340 world. It gave us definition in a physical way. And I said, that's who I am. I'm America first.

00:45:54.120 and that's something that ben shapiro could not claim right the democrats could not claim uh you

00:46:00.700 could even say the capitalist class by those not to sound communist but the wealthy the owners

00:46:07.360 right the people that own the multinational corporations and they live everywhere you know

00:46:13.180 they have houses in europe and asia and america they do business everywhere they could not even

00:46:18.460 call themselves america first so whether it's typically you think it's conservative and liberals

00:46:23.520 you know and conservative over here it's uh free trade capitalism right like and so you know or

00:46:29.840 like a ben shapiro type you know he'd be like oh he's one of us and and those were kind of the

00:46:34.320 dividing lines and we're like how come things just keep getting worse and worse like right well it's

00:46:38.220 like it's ping pong but like both sides are are really just two sides of the same coin uh and

00:46:44.620 you're right trump really in a lot of ways said like the reason we keep losing is because both

00:46:49.620 teams are against you both teams like there's a that's not the paradigm liberal conservative the

00:46:55.260 paradigm is um the world or us you know and and i think you saw that early and hopped on it and

00:47:05.640 that's kind of been your legacy for the last 10 years yes well that's how i position myself because

00:47:11.720 i look at someone like a charles coke let's say and say he's not america first if you're in favor

00:47:18.820 of like ultimate deregulation, ultimate neoliberalism, free trade, the rest of it, 0.94

00:47:25.660 you're not really on my team, even if you're in favor of capitalism broadly or traditional values

00:47:32.560 or something like that. And the same goes for Shapiro or Soros. It was really just about

00:47:37.380 properly setting people on the right sides of the issue. And so for 10 years, I've been creating

00:47:45.700 this space where I didn't and what's interesting which I don't talk about too much anymore but

00:47:52.460 this is very relevant in 2017 is it seemed that there was this there was no faction or no space

00:48:01.040 for somebody that I would call a true alternative to the right wing you had the term alt-right which

00:48:08.440 was extremely popular in 2016 and that label went through a lot of changes in 2016 to be alt-right

00:48:17.120 meant that you weren't an establishment republican because in 2015 right up until trump announced

00:48:24.440 you really had bush republicanism bush conservatism and that's just what there was

00:48:29.980 individual responsibility small government free markets like that's what it was to be right even

00:48:36.920 the wars to be right wing Trump comes along and says I'm a nationalist not a globalist and you

00:48:43.340 just get this flood of new ideas you get the French new right you get the perennialists like 0.59

00:48:49.500 Evola you get um white nationalists white identitarians race realists uh holocaust

00:48:56.440 revisionists anti-semites you get all these other people that were right wing like they were anti-left

00:49:03.240 but they didn't fit that old mold of conservatism and so people said this is the alternative right

00:49:08.760 this is an alternative to what we're getting and trump wins the election and after the election

00:49:14.940 alt-right became something very specific and it really meant like anti-american anti-christian

00:49:23.860 because it was a lot of uh racialists pure racialists that said it's not about america

00:49:29.660 it's about whites or uh people that were against christianity because they saw christianity's left

00:49:36.160 wing like a jewish psyop to make to weaken the west through like a toxic compassion to eradicate 0.55

00:49:44.620 white people yes and they they see wokeness and leftism as proceeding from christianity marxism 0.77

00:49:50.460 proceeding from christianity and they identified with like the pagan new right in europe um or

00:49:56.580 they identified with even some like atheistic or secular versions of the right wing and so i i kind

00:50:05.600 of came to realize in 2017 as trump drifted back towards the establishment there is really no space

00:50:11.960 for something that i saw this vision so clearly like a george washington national identity pro

00:50:20.340 america identifying america with its european identity identifying america with its christian

00:50:26.200 heritage being very far right anti-foreign wars right wing on the economy but not in favor of

00:50:34.520 total international trade total free trade and things like that and i said that this is where

00:50:40.780 i think actually most people are i think that people want to say merry christmas they want

00:50:46.580 jobs they don't want immigrants they don't really care what the size of government is as long as 0.70

00:50:52.580 it's efficacious and doing the things they wanted to do well. They don't want to fight in wars. I 1.00

00:50:57.180 said like, this is where the country is. So that, that was my message basically from 2017.

00:51:03.500 And you blew up into the stratosphere. Yeah. It's pretty impressive. Um, what do you,

00:51:10.160 the whole time you were talking, you like Pat Buchanan, right? Yes. Yeah. Me too. Um,

00:51:14.860 but every pat buchanan has his buckley you know to come and subvert and and lie and slander which

00:51:23.520 that's i mean national review and i think you know the like and people still say it like it's a point

00:51:28.760 of pride you know like um like it's a good thing to be buckley and i mean he was even you know from

00:51:34.720 my reading he was uh even questioned you know later on in life like do you really think that

00:51:39.380 Pat is an anti-Semite. And he was like, no, no, I just publicly slandered him for, you know,

00:51:47.160 forever and, uh, totally just, you know, worked and subverted and took him out of the game. Uh,

00:51:52.560 just cause he disagreed with me. Um, you seem to be a Buchanan of sorts. Who are some of, uh,

00:52:00.460 the Buckleys who are some of the guys, uh, who've really over the last 10 years thinking back,

00:52:07.240 not just today because it's easy to think of what's fresh but um who are some of the guys like

00:52:12.340 early on who you feel like uh they saw you saw what you're doing maybe had an inkling of what

00:52:18.840 it could become and like we've got to stop it it was shapiro without a doubt he was the number one

00:52:24.580 op and people don't realize but in those days shapiro was worshipped he was the guy and that's

00:52:32.420 before anyone was hip to any of the um jewish stuff israel stuff people weren't seeing it back

00:52:38.780 then and so they just looked at him as like a debate bro maybe they didn't even really know

00:52:44.220 he was jewish or even what that meant they didn't really know the context with israel and so they

00:52:49.020 looked at him as like a a very far-right debate bro who was a no holds barred debater like when

00:52:57.260 he went on piers morgan and debated about gun control or when he went on college campuses and

00:53:02.060 owned the liberals they saw him as like uh as fashy like a fashy based young uh you know debate guy

00:53:11.220 and shapiro of course was a never trumper and that is because he recognized what trump was and like

00:53:19.100 the potential of what trumpism could become because when you say america first it is basically

00:53:25.340 the inverse of that is like not israel first right because it's like well why would you need

00:53:31.600 to declare america first who is coming before america well you know some people might say the

00:53:38.200 un uh some boomers might say that but the real people know who comes first when we talk about

00:53:45.100 the war in iraq who was put first there and some of these other things now trump he meant the whole

00:53:51.720 international system he meant like south korea germany because we had troops deployed there

00:53:57.080 he meant um even these companies benefiting from offshoring the jobs or free trade agreements or

00:54:03.880 things like that come to find out now with hindsight trump meant america first over everything

00:54:09.820 maybe except for israel yes right literally yeah um yeah and and so you know shapiro it's sort of

00:54:18.760 ironic like me and shapiro in like a weird horseshoe kind of way we both saw what trumpism

00:54:25.500 really was right no one else saw it no one else like right and people were arguing back then like

00:54:31.160 is trump a nazi no he's not he hires black people he's pro-israel you know but like me and shapiro

00:54:38.900 both heard the signal through the noise we understood kind of the significance of what 0.89

00:54:43.720 was implied which is he's planting a seed here where if you're not kind of brainwashing the

00:54:51.740 boomers by telling them who's who's a true conservative and who's not conservative if you

00:54:56.720 cut to the chase and say we say merry christmas here this is america we're building walls to keep

00:55:03.520 people out and we're nationalist and trump in particular is always talking about the american

00:55:10.020 story pioneers he explores settlers the industrialists he's quoting napoleon yes pretty

00:55:17.540 cool. Quoted Mussolini. He said in the campaign, he said, um, he tweeted better to live one day 0.91

00:55:25.940 as a lion than a hundred as a sheep. And, uh, and some journalists said, do you really want to

00:55:32.820 be associated with Mussolini? And he goes, I want to be associated with interesting quotes.

00:55:39.080 So good. Um, but where's that guy? Right. Right. I miss him. Yeah. And you know, but

00:55:46.720 what they feared what shapiro feared is that he was a populist like he was really rallying the

00:55:53.120 peasants in an anti-elite message saying like the problem is the elites the rich the government um

00:56:00.820 he was rallying the rubes around the flag and the cross less of the cross more so the flag but there

00:56:06.900 was still it was implicit it was sort of rhetoric right and you know that's just like naturally

00:56:13.060 anathema to someone like Shapiro. And by that, I mean someone who is Jewish, pro-Israel, like he

00:56:19.000 sees where that's going. So he was stridently never Trump. And I remember that when I was

00:56:25.240 introduced to Shapiro, not directly, but this friend of mine texted Shapiro. I told the story

00:56:31.500 on PBD and she said, you got to take this guy under your wing. He's amazing. She goes, he's a

00:56:43.060 They knew that Trumpism was the problem.

00:56:46.100 And that's why it was very important that they assimilated Trumpism into conservatism

00:56:50.500 and that they neutralize anyone that Trump activated, that he awakened.

00:56:55.500 They wanted to suppress anything that looked like Buchanan, Sam Francis, Charles Lindbergh,

00:57:01.840 the old America First Committee, the know-nothings.

00:57:05.220 They wanted to suppress that great tradition, which has been alive in America for a long time.

00:57:10.060 It seems like, you know, first wave Shapiro as a Buckley for you.

00:57:15.660 And then later on, Charlie Kirk.

00:57:17.420 Yes.

00:57:18.740 Did you guys ever, I imagine you didn't, but did you ever get to talk to each other directly?

00:57:25.120 No.

00:57:25.740 No.

00:57:26.160 He just would never, just pretended that you didn't exist.

00:57:28.980 Yes.

00:57:29.680 Did he ever name you though?

00:57:31.220 He did.

00:57:32.080 Okay.

00:57:32.560 Once.

00:57:33.280 Once.

00:57:33.880 Okay.

00:57:34.040 That was the only time he volunteered my name.

00:57:36.540 because other times he was asked about me

00:57:39.520 and he would deliberately avoid even saying my name. 0.92

00:57:42.140 He would just say like that person, that guy is a troll.

00:57:45.920 But one time during the Groyper War,

00:57:48.760 at the end of it, it was the most brutal event.

00:57:53.220 It was at Houston.

00:57:55.020 And so he was outside at a small table

00:57:58.780 and he was literally just mobbed.

00:58:02.620 Like there was a angry mob

00:58:05.180 that surrounded the table of Groypers and it was the most rowdy one because you know at that time

00:58:10.420 he was doing all these events and they were pretty tame right uh and then the Q&A line would form 0.86

00:58:16.680 and like most of them would be Groypers and they would respectfully wait their turn they'd have

00:58:21.020 their little question their rosary their MAGA hat and they'd go up and respectfully ask the question

00:58:25.340 and and Charlie would answer he'd get jeered a little bit but this one was like out of control

00:58:30.600 because it was it was out in the open he was at a small little table and he was just surrounded

00:58:36.300 of by groyper screaming booing him yelling at him it was brutal and at the end of it he got a

00:58:44.940 question about me to debate me and this was like i get secondhand embarrassment he had next to him

00:58:53.460 like uh something covered in like a sheet the entire time he pulls off the sheet at the very

00:58:59.480 end it's a tv and he pulls up a clip from my show from when i was in high school wow when i said that

00:59:07.940 i didn't like trump in like 2015 and i was a senior in high school and i said uh trump is

00:59:14.640 not a serious candidate you know he needs to let someone like ted cruz or whatever um but he

00:59:21.240 couldn't get the tv to work so he pulls off the sheet like oh nick fuentes about that he takes

00:59:28.720 the sheet off. He's going to play this clip. And like the audio is not working. The video is like

00:59:33.500 a classic AV problem. And while he's trying to put this together, people see what's happening

00:59:38.960 and they just start booing him viciously. Charlie Kirk says Nick Fuentes is a Groyper grifter and 0.82

00:59:46.900 I'm out of here. And he gets up to leave and the mob follows him. So he gets up and is walking 1.00

00:59:53.820 through the campus, getting followed by like 200 people chanting America first, America

01:00:00.240 first. It was brutal. And that was the only time he ever mentioned me. And I, it's sort

01:00:06.520 of, I honestly, it makes me a little emotional. It's sort of tragic that I never got to talk

01:00:11.380 to him. There's like something deeply sad that we, our clash in many ways sort of defines

01:00:18.420 like the Generation Z dialectic.

01:00:21.100 And it's just a crossover that never will happen now.

01:00:25.600 And it's very sad to me.

01:00:27.020 Yeah, it is sad.

01:00:28.560 Who do you think was worse, Shapiro or Kirk?

01:00:33.120 Towards you.

01:00:34.020 They were both pretty rough.

01:00:36.440 I would say that Shapiro really pursued me with a vengeance.

01:00:42.480 And all of his people did too.

01:00:44.260 They were like flying monkeys.

01:00:45.980 Cabot Phillips was a big one. 0.99

01:00:47.580 ultra i mean i know i can't swear on your show but he was a jerk okay his dad tim phillips ran 0.99

01:00:55.240 americans for prosperity which is like this cut out for like corporations to sell deregulation 0.99

01:01:01.040 um and cabot so the guys like royalty because his dad runs this high power was a very powerful

01:01:08.700 non-profit and he was at campus reform and this guy was constantly attacking me on twitter now

01:01:16.140 I always had Daily Wire as like their editor in chief, I think.

01:01:20.260 But it was him.

01:01:21.280 It was Josh Hammer was with Daily Wire at the time.

01:01:23.840 He was always on my case.

01:01:26.680 Elliot Hamilton, Aaron Bandler, like they had a whole click always going after me on

01:01:31.200 Twitter.

01:01:31.960 But Charlie was pretty brutal, too, because they put together like a highlight reel of

01:01:37.380 all the clips compiled by Media Matters on Twitter.

01:01:40.940 benny johnson did who worked at turning point and said here's nick denying the holocaust here's him

01:01:47.140 saying he hates women here's him saying something racist about black people and they were like 0.53

01:01:53.340 inquisitors looking for groipers and turning point firing them wherever they could find them 0.97

01:01:58.620 firing people for being in a photo with me wow so they really blackballed me hard they all did um 0.65

01:02:06.100 but did you have momentum at that point or they could just see the potential of what you would

01:02:12.240 become in um 2017 shapiro went hard on me because i saw the potential i had no momentum right they

01:02:19.380 just saw it was sort of like luke skywalker yeah you know they kind of saw that i had a force

01:02:24.520 ability and they're like this guy's going to be a jedi you know in 2019 it was more like empire

01:02:30.860 strikes back yeah it was like oh i'm going to complete your training because i in the

01:02:35.720 griper war i was surging huge live stream audience huge organic following doing events and they

01:02:42.920 really just tried to knock me out of orbit and largely they succeeded with reputational damage

01:02:47.840 censorship i i was told that a jewish fixer got me kicked off youtube really shortly after that

01:02:54.660 because as retaliation for the griper war wow because the griper war was in december that's

01:03:00.820 when i got my first strike december 19 and then february 2020 is when i got banned wow so um yeah

01:03:08.140 so they you know daily wire tried to throttle me in the crib turning point really tried to uh

01:03:14.280 destroy any momentum i had big difference that i see between you know charlie kirk and ben shapiro

01:03:20.380 is uh two one and this is a big difference uh charlie was a christian

01:03:27.260 ben shapiro no yeah and second charlie you know i wasn't an avid listener but i would tune in every

01:03:39.020 now and then if something was going viral or see this or see that and you see like you know some

01:03:43.900 of the early days and then and then even not that long ago maybe three years two three years ago

01:03:49.060 four years maybe where he's you know like raising his voice and stands up and starts shouting at

01:03:55.140 someone who's saying, um, what place to, uh, openly, you know, um, aggressively homosexual

01:04:03.100 people have as leaders in the conservative movement. And Charlie's like defending the 0.52

01:04:10.180 sodomites, his natural instinct is like, they're great. Like, who are you to say that they can't

01:04:18.320 be, uh, you know, a part of this and leading and, uh, and does God not love everyone? I mean,

01:04:23.620 just like every cliche cringe you could possibly imagine but but even that like to be fair um

01:04:30.420 he he he shifted he really did and so like when i think of shapiro and i think of charlie kirk and

01:04:36.740 you know them both you know or about them both much better than i do but one's a jew right and

01:04:41.920 one's a christian that's a pretty big difference you know um but then beyond that one seems to be

01:04:47.260 just kind of static like i don't i don't feel like there is any evolution with shapiro no whereas

01:04:53.900 charlie it's uh it's sad because it's a brother in christ um heritage american and um i i thought

01:05:03.980 he had some good stuff i thought he really did and uh and it's interesting to see what he would

01:05:08.780 have become you know like who knows where he would have landed i think eventually you guys would have

01:05:13.140 gotten that debate. I think so. I think you would have, especially here's the thing. I don't think

01:05:18.040 10 years from now, I think you, I think that debate could have happened in 2026. Yeah. Like

01:05:22.680 next year. It's kind of crazy to think any final words for this episode, America first Christian 0.99

01:05:28.660 nationalist. What do you think? I think they're deeply connected and I think you almost can't

01:05:34.300 have one without the other. Yeah, you can't. Yeah. So I'm, I'm in, I'm in favor of an alliance

01:05:39.680 and a synthesis of the two.

01:05:42.220 I'm in. Sounds good.

01:05:43.520 Absolutely.

01:05:43.960 Thanks for coming on the show.

01:05:45.020 Thank you.

01:05:45.560 For those of you who may not be aware,

01:05:47.660 I have the immense privilege of also serving as president

01:05:51.080 for a sister organization to NXR Studios,

01:05:54.260 which is a nonprofit 501c3 Christian organization

01:05:59.020 called Right Response Ministries.

01:06:02.300 Our focus with this organization is to train and equip pastors

01:06:07.700 and congregants in the Protestant church, primarily the evangelical church right here

01:06:14.420 in America. What are we trying to train them in? Well, let's just say we're trying to help

01:06:19.640 evangelical Protestant churches in America to stop being so insufferable, to stop being Zionist 0.63

01:06:27.140 shills, to be engaged, not apathetic, but activated in the realm of politics and culture.

01:06:34.280 The things that you've been hearing in this series that myself and Nick Fuentes are talking

01:06:39.460 about, we want to see Protestant churches right here in America apply these things to

01:06:45.240 get in the game, to win our country back. 0.88

01:06:48.400 We want to see evangelicals and Protestants in America actually be America first, not

01:06:55.660 serving a foreign country at the expense of our own interest, but serving Christ and serving

01:07:02.360 Americans.

01:07:03.340 If you'd like to support us in this mission, we could greatly use your help.

01:07:08.360 You can give a tax-deductible donation by simply going to

01:07:12.160 RightResponseMinistries.com forward slash donate.

01:07:17.800 Again, that's RightResponseMinistries.com forward slash donate.

01:07:24.080 God bless.

The NXR Podcast - January 02, 2026

THE SPECIAL - Christian Nationalism Meets America First (w⧸Nick Fuentes)

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