00:02:44.960all right so this one is going to be all about history and it is your forte and not mine so i'm
00:03:09.960here to learn. I know a little bit about, you know, Buchanan and Buckley and those kinds of things,
00:03:15.260but what is the history of neoconservatism? Well, it's an important question because the
00:03:21.640neocons have been pretty dominant in politics for the past 25, 30 years. And I think it's actually
00:03:28.680really important to tell the story, especially now because of what's happening ever since October
00:03:33.9207th what's interesting is that the origin of the neocons in the 70s mirrors almost exactly what's
00:03:42.540happening in the right wing in 2023 really uh-huh almost identical mirror image and it's really
00:03:49.820important to understand because if you can understand how the neocons emerged in the 70s
00:03:54.600you can really understand what's coming in the future in the 2020s because of the similarities
00:04:00.100and to understand the neocons you have to go all the way back to the 50s and 60s and what you find
00:04:08.400is that the origins of the neoconservatives it's in all these magazines commentary magazine and a
00:04:15.180number of other uh smaller intellectual magazines which were very popular back then now of course
00:04:22.680we have twitter fox news talk radio and all this stuff is relatively new back then you have in new
00:04:30.960york city you have in the major intellectual hubs you have these small journals and they didn't have
00:04:36.580a big readership at all like these were not mass circulation magazines but they reached a very core
00:04:42.900audience of the most influential intellectual types tastemakers opinion makers so you had
00:04:49.620these small magazines, mostly in New York City, and they're written by Jewish left-wingers.0.68
00:04:57.240And they actually call themselves Trotskyites. And it's debated whether they're really Trotskyists
00:05:02.400or, you know, to what extent they were really communist. But this is in the milieu of the
00:05:06.66050s and 60s, where we're in the Cold War, the U.S. against the Soviet Union. And after World War II,
00:05:14.240the Cold War begins very quickly, and the communists are spreading their ideology all
00:05:18.760over the world. That's why the Soviet Union was such a pariah, unlike any other country,
00:05:24.180because at the center of their doctrine, of their state, is this revolutionary totalizing global
00:05:30.520ideology. So they say it's not enough that Russia succumbs to communism and the revolution. They
00:05:36.300said we will turn Russia out and use Russia as a springboard to launch a global revolution
00:05:41.840that eventually eliminates borders and eliminates hierarchies and everything.
00:05:46.240And so they're spreading this in Asia and in Europe. They're trying to get communist parties elected to power in Italy, Germany, France. And the United States recognizes this emerging challenge. They say, we don't want the countries to fall to communism. If they do, they will align with Russia. If they align with Russia, all that country's resources go to Russia.
00:06:08.320And if Russia controls Europe, Asia, the Middle East, they get all the resources of the Eurasian landmass.0.57
00:06:17.600And if it just becomes a resource battle, then Russia becomes a more powerful country in absolute and relative terms.0.65
00:06:25.540So it's the basis of Cold War strategic thinking and the CIA and the State Department that we have to undermine communism, Stalinism in all these countries.
00:06:37.000because stalin is king until 53 when he dies and so what they start to do in the 50s is they start
00:06:43.580to invest in these types of magazines they invest in radio they invest in magazines various
00:06:50.460intellectual figures give them stipends and grants at universities and they're not all right wing
00:06:55.720they're not all sponsoring like free market neo neoliberalism wasn't really a thing yet
00:07:00.620but they weren't really sponsoring all conservatives they're sponsoring a lot of liberals
00:07:05.680and they're sponsoring a lot of non-Stalinist non-communist left-wingers they're okay with
00:07:13.360a left-wing party coming to power as long as they're not going to be Stalinist communist
00:07:18.580aligned with the Soviet Union so in the 50s and 60s they're backing all these different very
00:07:24.820well-known publications and intellectuals through a group called the Congress for Cultural Freedom
00:07:30.100this is really where it starts and it's important to understand that in the 50s and 60s you had all
00:07:36.280these jews in america they all came from russia at the turn of the previous century and they came
00:07:42.020here fleeing the pale of settlement from the pogroms the anti-semitism of the czar they also
00:07:47.800fled communism at various stages over the course of the life of the soviet union and so many of
00:07:53.800them are deeply sympathetic to socialism many of them are very left-wing and they have these
00:07:59.440idealistic views about the Soviet Union, that it might be a socialist paradise, that it might be
00:08:06.840like the solution. And so all of this thinking changes between the 67 and 73 war in Israel.
00:08:15.540Israel, excuse me, is established in 1948. And there's a question in American strategic thinking
00:08:22.280about the alignment of the entire Middle East, because we want to balance, we want to recognize
00:08:29.400Israel because it's important for the Jews in America politically. And there's the whole story
00:08:34.580about how we came to recognize Israel. It's not really important for this. We want to support
00:08:39.560Israel, but we don't want to alienate all the Arabs. So the United States and even some of
00:08:44.640the governments in Europe are balancing. And in balancing, we're not giving weapons to either of
00:08:49.960them. We're not giving a ton of weapons to Israel. We're not giving a ton of weapons to Egypt and0.71
00:08:54.060Syria, even though they're at war, in the hopes that we can maintain everybody's alliance.
00:09:01.460You know, we can keep friends with everybody.0.56
00:09:03.860What starts to happen, however, is that the American Jews and European Jews start smuggling
00:15:56.820They go to the United Nations a couple of years later and push this resolution which
00:16:00.940says that Zionism is racism, which is identical to some of the rhetoric now from the left.0.72
00:16:07.680And so all these Jews in New York City who are anti-Stalinist, but they're sympathetic0.54
00:16:13.600to the Soviet Union, left-wing, maybe they have some idealistic ideas about the Soviet Union.0.70
00:16:20.320This is where that old expression comes from. I believe it's from Irvin Kristol. He said that
00:16:24.740conservatives are liberals that got mugged by reality. And how they got mugged is they saw
00:16:31.460that the Soviet Union is really their enemy. And so all these left-wing Jews writing in these0.91
00:16:36.580magazines in New York, they realize we have to destroy the Soviet Union. Now they're liberal0.99
00:16:42.780on everything else they're liberal on civil rights they're liberal on free speech liberal on
00:16:47.960any issue you can think of the economy race they don't even care about these issues0.63
00:16:54.120the only issue that they care about after this point is defending israel by defeating the soviet
00:17:01.980union and so all these guys who were on the left shift over to the right these are your ervin
00:17:07.120crystals norm potter it's among others this is like your first wave of neocons and they explicitly
00:17:13.860say if the soviet union's backing these countries and if they say zionism is racism what they're
00:17:21.060effectively saying is that israel doesn't have a right to exist if zionism is racism and zionism
00:17:27.680can't be tolerated then there can be no jewish israeli state so they identify israel as the main
00:17:33.560enemy. These guys gradually over time infiltrate the conservative movement, the Reagan administration,0.52
00:17:41.060some of the think tanks, the nonprofits. And in the 80s, they become a major part of this
00:17:46.880fusionist alliance, the social conservatives, the free market guys. And then you have the Cold
00:17:52.460Warriors, the neocons. These are guys that want to destroy the Soviet Union. They join up with
00:17:58.100the conventional Cold Warriors who are very conservative, although albeit for different
00:18:02.800reasons. And they say that that is our overriding priority. We have to confront and collapse the
00:18:08.360Soviet Union so that Israel can be safe. Now, going into the 1990s, you have this huge overlap0.87
00:18:15.260between Israel and the actual neocons. And you get this memo called the Clean Break Report in 1996.
00:18:22.480And it's Richard Perle, Douglas Faith, David Wormser, Paul Wolfowitz. They're commissioned
00:18:28.340by the first Netanyahu government, he gets to power in the mid-90s, to talk about the strategy
00:18:34.060how Israel will survive in the Middle East. And they say that in order for Israel to be safe,
00:18:40.100we have to secure our northern border with Lebanon. And what's happening in Lebanon?
00:18:45.020You have Hezbollah, ever since their war in Lebanon in the 80s. Hezbollah is funded by Iran.
00:18:51.420They're facilitating the transfer of weapons through Syria, because Iran has this relationship
00:18:57.380with Syria. And Syria, like Iraq, is a Ba'athist country, this Ba'athist fascist ideology. So they0.62
00:19:05.700say, how do we secure our northern border? Well, we have to take out Hezbollah. How do we take out1.00
00:19:10.580Hezbollah? We have to take out Iraq, which is Saddam Hussein, then Syria, then Iran. That's0.99
00:19:18.140always been the playbook. Iraq, Syria, Iran. Then all these guys that write this report, and these0.89
00:19:24.160are all jewish neocons they all come from that tradition all these guys wind up in the bush0.70
00:19:29.840administration just five years later in the secretary of state in the or excuse me in the0.86
00:19:35.920state department in the defense department and then they become the architects of the iraq war
00:19:41.580and of other plans too because inside the bush administration you have this rhetoric about the
00:19:46.860axis of evil which consists in not only iraq in north korea but also iran and the israelis
00:19:53.500And the neocons at that time, they want us to take the war in Iraq and open up the front with Syria, open up the front with Iran.
00:20:01.720Of course, over the last 20 years, it doesn't happen to the Bush administration, but this carries on into the Obama administration with regime change against Assad and now ultimately in the Trump administration against Iran, where they're trying to denuclearize and maybe pursue regime change.
00:20:17.080the reason that i say that this is so important to understand is because the significance should
00:20:24.100not be lost on anybody what you have is in october 6 73 there is an arab sneak attack on israel
00:20:33.020it pushes israel to the brink they're caught by surprise they're almost defeated
00:20:36.840it is backed by the international left and the progressive left in america and they're
00:20:42.520their apologists for this this attack is so traumatic to the jewish consciousness not just
00:20:49.800in israel but in america that they become extremely right wing there's this huge shift to the right
00:20:54.940because they say the left is anti-israel the left is actually becoming hostile to jewry in the world
00:21:02.220and in america this is identical to what happened in 2023 right which is an arab sneak attack
00:21:08.920backed by iran which is an ally of russia backed by the progressive left in america at harvard
00:21:15.620that made excuses for it it catches israel by surprise and in catching israel by surprise it
00:21:22.640is so traumatic and so devastating the 1200 dead the babies in ovens things like that0.63
00:21:28.020you see that the jewish consciousness just like 50 years ago shifts to the right and they say0.98
00:21:34.600they're mugged by reality, just like it was 50 years ago. Today, you have these high-powered1.00
00:21:40.600liberal Democrat Jews like Bill Ackman at Apollo, and he's a Harvard alumnus. He's in New York City.0.73
00:21:48.060He's friends with BlackRock, with the head of BlackRock, I should say. And you have guys like
00:21:54.560Sean McGuire and Jacob Helberg. These are Jews in Silicon Valley. Jacob Helberg's a gay Jew.
00:22:00.820Sean McGuire is a lifelong Democrat, liberal Jew.0.52
00:22:04.060All three of these guys, whether they're in Wall Street or Silicon Valley, they see what
00:23:23.480that dominate the second Trump administration
00:23:25.800to the exclusion of every other issue.
00:23:28.340Bill Ackman, Sean McGuire, Jacob Hellberg, all these guys, they're still liberal.
00:23:33.380They're still in favor of mass migration.
00:23:35.900They're still in favor of feminism, social liberalism.
00:23:40.320The one thing they support Trump on is these pro-Jewish policies, whether it's supporting Israel materially, whether it's banning anti-Semitism at Harvard by taking away their money from the federal government,
00:23:53.500expelling students to criticize israel or protested israel by revoking their visas
00:23:58.560it's the ascendancy of the neocons then is identical to this shift that happened in israel
00:24:05.300a couple of years ago so that that's a little bit of the history of the neocons that's really
00:24:10.760fascinating um who paleocon explain that yeah so and how did that die is was buchanan like the
00:24:20.720last of the paleocons? He would be maybe the last prominent paleocon. Yes. And it's interesting
00:24:27.340because paleocon, that's a name that comes from Paul Gottfried, who's Jewish himself. And he's
00:24:33.720an old intellectual. He's been around forever. He was a big critic of the Straussians, which we get
00:24:38.480into the neocons. Paleocon was really reactive against the neocons. And I would say that even
00:24:46.460before there were paleocons there's an older tradition you have an old american right which
00:24:51.620is very different than the post-world war ii american right and it is nativist and it is
00:24:56.740anti-war and it is what you would call america first it is very christian there is an old right
00:25:02.480in america after world war ii it starts to change a little bit but you still have a remnant i would
00:25:08.500say that you have that in uh the house committee on unamerican activities i would say you have that
00:25:14.880in McCarthyism. In the aftermath of World War II, in the 40s and 50s, you have the Red Scare,
00:25:22.620the Lavender Scare. They're anti-communist, against subversives. They're against gays.
00:25:28.860So that's like an early iteration of what you might call paleocons.0.60
00:25:34.580Then you get some organizations in the 60s and 70s, the Council for Concerned Citizens. You get
00:25:40.860Some of these like neo-Confederates, people in favor of segregation, some people from the South who are very right wing.
00:25:49.220You could argue the John Birch Society, they never talked specifically, explicitly about Jews, but they were very conspiratorial.
00:25:59.500And then it's really in the 70s and 80s that you get the first clash between the actual neocons and the paleocons.
00:26:05.700And it does come down to these types of issues.
00:26:07.780And the prominent paleocons are guys like Patrick Buchanan, Sam Francis, Peter Brimelow, Joseph Sobron, Paul Gottfried, and they basically come around in response to the neocons, in response to the like Israel worship, the Reaganite coalition that brings together the free market people and the pro-war people, almost to the exclusion of the social conservatives.
00:26:33.120and they say wait a second we're against immigration we don't think tel aviv is the
00:26:39.100capital of the united states they say america is a white country it's a christian country
00:26:44.360one of the big battles of the paleocons was against mlk junior day when that was made a
00:26:50.220federal holiday in the 80s and what happens to the paleocons is that they are effectively hunted
00:26:56.240down and eliminated yeah and this is something that almost nobody talks about that joseph sobron
00:27:02.180for example. It's a name almost nobody knows, but he was one of the maybe the second most
00:27:07.780prominent conservative intellectual in America in the 80s. Extremely prolific in almost all the
00:27:14.000magazines, very high profile. But he, like Russell Kirk and some others, had some choice words about
00:27:21.100the Israeli infiltration of the right. And for that, they called him an anti-Semite, got him
00:27:27.440fired buried his name and he dies in ignominy nobody even knows who he is sam francis is another
00:27:33.980one one of the biggest columnists in the 80s and 90s he's at the washington examiner by all accounts
00:27:40.400he's brilliant i mean encyclopedic knowledge of history of everything he attends the american
00:27:46.700renaissance conference hosted by jared taylor the first of its kind in 93 dinesh d'souza goes to
00:27:53.760the conference and he watches what happens he writes down his observations he writes about it
00:27:59.700in a book and he says these guys are all nazis and racists and klansmen he lies jared taylor0.60
00:28:07.340threatens to sue the publisher for libel and the publisher actually removes that chapter from the
00:28:13.380book because it was so dishonest it didn't matter because de souza published that chapter
00:28:19.480independently as an article and they got sam francis fired from the examiner and and for the
00:28:25.220rest of his life he never achieved the same status and then patrick buchanan he ran for president in
00:28:30.56092 and just before he ran for president bill buckley writes this book it was an entire standalone
00:28:36.820issue of national review but then he publishes it as a book it's called in search of anti-semitism
00:28:42.280and he talks about some comments buchanan had made on the mclaughlin group about israel and
00:28:47.860about the original war in Iraq and says Buchanan's a Jew hater. He's a conspiratorial Jew hater,
00:28:54.000anti-Semite. And the book doesn't succeed. They tried to blackball him, but he's too famous.0.92
00:29:00.420He loses in 92 anyway, doesn't win in the primary, but they do the same thing to him.
00:29:05.140And for 20 years, even into the mid 2000s, they eventually get him fired from MSNBC because of0.51
00:29:11.020what he wrote in Suicide of a Superpower, which is about how demographic change is making whites
00:29:16.140a minority and so it's interesting because when i did the groyper war in 2019 it was the same
00:29:24.120battle lines it was this new generation of kids wearing maga hats which is brand spanking new
00:29:31.100that's in 2016 and rosaries and we're saying we're socially conservative we're immigration0.93
00:29:37.100restrictionist we are identitarian we're pro-white it's the same battle lines as the paleocons and
00:29:46.000neocons. Whereas, you know, Kirk and Shapiro, Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro are saying, well,
00:29:51.500you know, we're pro-Israel, we're pro-gay, we're in favor of 10 million H-1Bs, F-1 visas that will
00:29:58.720become green cards. And it was interesting because none of us at that point had ever heard of this
00:30:03.780battle, but this is a battle that has been going on basically every generation since World War II
00:30:09.240between these different factions of the right wing. And it's even playing out today.
00:30:13.680Yes. The post-war consensus. You've talked about that, right? What's the post-war consensus? Because the last thing that you said just then, this battle has been continuing on and on since World War II. If you were to define the post-war consensus, how would you define it? And what was the major shift from before and after World War II? Because America, the whole entire West has never been the same.
00:30:41.820Well, I would say it's all basically a reaction to Nazism, and it's this idea that never again, that's the mantra, never again, never again will we allow a Hitler to come to power and to prosecute a Holocaust against the Jews or the gypsies or the gays or the disabled or whoever, you know, the enemies of the state.0.50
00:31:03.940and so you start to get all these different books like the open society you start to get books like0.67
00:31:08.940the authoritarian personality and they start to try to dissect how did a country fall under the
00:31:15.680sway of a charismatic totalitarian fascist leader that not only uh committed a genocide and made
00:31:24.620death camps with gas chambers so the story goes but also the militarism they declared war on the
00:31:31.860entire world and brought the world to the brink of uh of a catastrophe or really they killed 100
00:31:38.180million people effectively and what they work out basically is we cannot have hierarchy we cannot0.83
00:31:47.480have an exclusionary nationalism cannot have the kind of unity that they had in nazi germany they
00:31:54.680say is what created that the kind of pride and race nation uh god that kind of cohesion that
00:32:02.440leads necessarily to exclusion necessarily to persecution and so you get this consensus after
00:32:09.100world war ii how do you prevent the nazis from happening we have to open up society we have to
00:32:15.220make a society where uh tolerance multi-racialism religious pluralism that has to be the new
00:32:21.720doctrine and so that that is the the biggest shift because i mean you could say during world
00:32:28.440war ii you have the german american boon to take over madison square garden with giant portraits
00:32:34.040of george washington we didn't want to go to war with germany we wanted to stay out of it
00:32:39.160you know the idea that we wanted to go to war with germany to stop fascism we got bombed at
00:32:45.380pearl harbor that's why we went to war right america did not want the war and certainly not
00:32:50.900for ideological reasons, certainly not to free the world from racism, but yet they use that as a
00:32:56.900founding myth to kind of create this new world based on these sort of Atlantic liberal principles.
00:33:03.500Right. What you were describing of, you know, giving way to inclusivism and diversity and open
00:33:11.280borders and all those kinds of things. Did you ever read Reno? R.R. Reno, yeah. Yeah. Return of
00:33:18.540the strong gods did you read it no i'm familiar with the argument yeah what do you think about
00:33:23.520that concept i think it's totally true i think it's true too yeah it was one of the better books
00:33:28.340that i that was kind of my introduction to the post-war consensus right it's basically um when
00:33:34.480people you know they're like what you know what's this magical word you know like the james lindseys
00:33:38.300of the world you know they don't like it um you know what's the post-war consensus and it's like
00:33:43.300it's the answer to why america can't have nice things right why can't we have nice things because
00:33:49.860hitler right and that's pretty much it that's about as far as it goes is that um if if we actually
00:33:57.200care for the native citizens of the country if we actually want to promote their welfare for the
00:34:05.540good of us and our posterity right the founders didn't do it for india they did it for you know
00:34:10.000their children's children. And if we actually, you know, keep the wishes of the founders and
00:34:15.120we keep the demographics of America to actually be Americans, then somehow, uh, that, uh, you know,0.60
00:34:23.360automatically just lends towards gas chambers, which is insane. Uh, but that's become like the
00:34:30.920founding myth, uh, that everything else has been built upon. I mean, you think of just the number
00:34:36.680of hollywood films you know in the last 80 years surrounding you know the holocaust or
00:34:43.020world war ii and um i mean it's it's a lot of money a lot of time a lot of writing a lot of
00:34:49.560effort has gone into you know to really building upon you know and solidifying this myth that um
00:34:58.260that hitler was the worst person to ever live and uh and that fascism is the scariest thing
00:35:05.220that there's ever been and uh and i you know you and i'm probably different like i don't think
00:35:11.620hitler was a christian do you think he was a christian no i don't okay yeah i i don't think
00:35:15.620that he was a christian i think he used a lot of christian rhetoric which makes sense because i
00:35:19.400think most of germany was christian at the time and um lutherans you know martin luther being a
00:35:26.620german but um i i think that germany was a great nation i mean but you look at like weimar germany0.93
00:35:33.260in the 1930s and it's like you know such a terrible place uh they honor women who are mothers
00:35:39.120you know and you get property taxes shaved off if you're bearing to i mean it's like it's actually
00:35:44.240pretty good you know and like we won't tolerate pornography in our schools you know those kinds
00:35:48.820of things um and i think you know hitler capitalized on on a lot of what was already there
00:35:54.640groundswell um you know like this sense of like by god we'll have our home again that was kind of
00:36:00.900what was going on um so i don't think he was a christian i don't think he was the last christian
00:36:05.700prince but at the same time i um i i just don't find it compelling that he's the worst guy ever
00:36:13.880you know and i also think that just because i'm old enough at this point like i i know just from
00:36:19.840things that are said about me um i think you know one the atrocities that happened i think that they
00:36:25.720were probably not as bad as we've been told and two the real atrocities the things that happened
00:36:31.480that were valid or legitimate um some of them may be directly tied to hitler but then some of them
00:36:36.740were probably also instances where hitler was like um yeah you need to uh banish these people
00:36:42.120and then someone you know close to it was like banish you know like and then they go off and
00:36:48.660you know like i mean it's entirely plausible that he didn't even know necessarily some of the things
00:36:54.240that were going on but regardless of all that and the point is um to make to make the the entire
00:37:01.260foundation like the the founding the foundation for the west was christianity and i think that's
00:37:09.800what i i want my listeners to understand is that that really was replaced by instead of for christ
00:37:16.740it became against hitler right and and i think that i think that we're this spell is breaking
00:37:22.920do you sense that i do i feel like the spell is breaking i think part of it is freedom of speech
00:37:29.400and social media platforms the internet you know and all this you know fortune you know like all
00:37:33.660these things but i think part of it also is just time you know like time has to go by and it's kind
00:37:38.800of like hitler reminds me of napoleon a little bit right there's like with certain figures like
00:37:44.600that that really did do some bad things like i'm not i'm not a hitler apologist um i i think that
00:37:50.380hitler did some bad things um but but uh right on the heels of that it's usually demonizing
00:37:58.160and then you know you'll start to kind of get pushed back you know because there'll be a new
00:38:02.920generation that's doesn't have any of the nostalgia or the the sentiment i think of like gen z i think
00:38:09.700we're kind of like right there and so you go from like demonizing and then you usually have a brief
00:38:13.800moment of lionizing you know like you know so like hitler's our guy he's the best you know like
00:38:19.400pictures of like jesus and hitler hugging each other you know and having like and but then what
00:38:24.980eventually happens kind of inevitably in history is uh humanizing right so demonizing lionizing
00:38:31.140humanizing and uh tales all this time just rinse and repeat and i feel like that happened with
00:38:36.720napoleon like we can now talk about napoleon and nobody's like gonna threaten you know uh napoleon
00:38:43.000laws to throw you in prison because you said something positive about napoleon um and but at
00:38:47.900the same time you don't have like a ton of like you know young people you know with like napoleon
00:38:52.820t-shirts and like napoleon is the last christian prince like you don't have either you can just
00:38:57.320you can you're removed enough to where you can be objective it's hard to be objective when
00:39:02.280you literally you still have you know living remnants of people who were there you know now
00:39:09.020as far as it pertains to the holocaust i think we'll always have living remnants i feel like
00:39:13.700every year there's more holocaust survivors i don't know if that generation will ever die they0.90
00:39:19.380keep cropping up you know but eventually you know i i've been reliably informed that eventually
00:39:24.620nobody will remember firsthand and and you might have a brief you know lionizing spell where people
00:39:31.540are just kind of because they're just sick of it and they're angry you know they're just mad
00:39:35.360and and i get that it's like really like i can't own a home because of this guy on the other side
00:39:40.700of the world from 80 years ago well then that's my favorite guy you know like right right you know
00:39:44.520and you're just kind of like a rebellion thing but i i think we're close i think we're maybe you
00:39:48.660know 10 20 years out from being able to talk about adolf hitler uh in a humanizing not not
00:39:56.500demonizing not lionizing and being objective and saying yeah this was really bad really bad
00:40:00.480um also yeah this guy over here was way worse stalin was was way worse and um and and i i think
00:40:09.140i think that we we have to get there um not because uh hitler needs to be memorialized but
00:40:15.700because we need to be able to have nice things again you know like the west needs to be allowed
00:40:20.480to have nice things and we can't you can have nice things and not like hitler but you can't
00:40:25.240have nice things and think that hierarchy authority um heritage uh you you can't hate
00:40:33.360those things and have like you can't have a country right you know so we have to get to
00:40:38.240the point where we're able to be objective and say hey you know what these things that the german0.94
00:40:42.940people were after not just hitler but the german people um they weren't stupid right that like they0.97
00:40:49.060they they got behind him for a reason they weren't stupid and they weren't just bamboozled0.98
00:40:54.000um there were real atrocities going on and they were on the brink of like losing their society
00:41:01.420losing their people and they said enough and i'm like yeah there's a lot i i see the similarities
00:41:08.920of course this is coming back up as a conversation and and i think we need to be able to have it and
00:41:14.800i think we should be able to look at weimar germany and say what did they do right anything
00:41:19.740that's good like i said one time in a podcast i was like you know here's my take crazy um i support
00:41:26.340everything that hitler did that was biblical and i and i do not support everything he did
00:41:32.580like i can say that for stalin i can say that for genghis kong like that's my position for
00:41:37.100everyone in the world like you can look at someone and say this was good and we're not going to throw
00:41:40.860the baby out with the bath water and i think for 80 years that's what we've done we've thrown the
00:41:44.740baby out with the bath water um because because hitler did some things that really were bad
00:41:49.520uh we've decided and therefore uh we need to have you know infinite um immigration and uh if you're1.00
00:41:58.280white you're kind of a monster and uh and we're going to ruin our economy and rack up the debt0.99
00:42:06.540and do this and do that and so we've got to be able to break the spell but uh the neocons it's0.99
00:42:12.220the left is um terrible but but i don't know it's in some sense like the enemy that that you know
00:42:19.000the enemy that's obvious is is less threatening in some ways but the enemy that's like in the
00:42:25.680house with you smiling and then you go to sleep and they're you know standing over your bed with
00:42:30.100a knife like that that enemy is really daunting and i feel like neoconservativism that's that's
00:42:36.200what it is it's the the enemy that poses as your friend you know yeah but maybe i should say that's
00:42:43.140what it was recently was not so much today i feel like i feel like they really are showing their
00:42:49.200colors i would say that it's a it's a little bit more subtle now because what i will give them
00:42:55.940credit for is they're very um crafty they're very capable and because you're right when you no one
00:43:02.820would identify as a neocon today unless they're being edgy unless they're trying to be provocative
00:43:07.760they say i am a neocon i like i think bush was good actually uh and i've seen that i've seen that
00:43:13.820from centrist liberals i've seen that from some on the right um but they know what they're doing
00:43:20.840they know it's a negative connotation so no one is really identifying as like a proud neocon there's
00:43:26.980no neocon conference but if you look at what the neocons did in every generation they married
00:43:33.320the pro-israel interest with the conservative cause it's like in the 80s did they say we need
00:43:40.200to defeat the soviet union because they support egypt no they said the soviet union is an empire
00:43:46.240of gulags and slavery and we need freedom to ring everywhere and that was the basis
00:43:51.840in the 2000s did they say we need to go to war with the palestinians to make israel safe and
00:43:59.400destroy Saddam Hussein because he's going to bomb Israel again. No, they said this is a clash of
00:44:06.500civilizations. America is a crusader state and we have these adversaries. They're non-state actors.
00:44:12.940They're terrorists. And we need to fight the terrorists. We need to go over there and fight0.78
00:44:17.740them there so we don't have to fight them here. And it mirrored, think about like in the 80s,
00:44:21.860the aesthetic was the city on a hill the liberal empire versus the evil empire soviet union
00:44:30.300in the 2000s think about the imagery it was the crusader state we had the unipolar moment with
00:44:37.540the most powerful country we're going to be this like benevolent crusader that goes in the middle0.98
00:44:42.300east and liberates the muslims from their tyrannical leaders in the 2020s we're getting0.88
00:44:48.040a new version of that and what it is is yorm hazoni's virtue of nationalism i was gonna say
00:44:55.260it's not the neocons anymore but when you described it for a moment said um nobody's proudly labeling
00:45:00.780themselves a neocon but um it's those who marry american interests with israeli interest yes i was
00:45:07.880thinking um yorm is being more specific but in a general sense you could say yeah it's not the
00:45:13.680neocons anymore because they're not needed it's MAGA yes and and specifically because MAGA is not
00:45:21.880a properly defined ideology it doesn't really mean anything so who is left the task of defining it
00:45:28.220it's like the think tanks intellectuals usual suspects and so you get someone like Yoram
00:45:33.220Hazzoni who he's founds the national conservatism conference okay so now it has a name
00:45:38.300we're national conservatives and that kind of they're trying to capture the mood of the moment
00:45:44.140because what do you call a trumpist a magaite like there's not a demonym there's not a name for it
00:45:49.700so they said well we're national they don't want to say nationalist they don't like that they don't
00:45:55.160want to say america first for obvious reasons so they say we're national conservatives we're going
00:46:01.500to give it a label and people like the label because they say yeah i'm like a nationalist i
00:46:05.840guess i'm a national conservative i support industrial policy i support the jacksonian
00:46:11.200foreign policy of trump and so yoram founds the conference they have a name they've got a
00:46:19.000conference he writes the book they've got a book with the doctrine the virtue of nationalism and
00:46:24.640nationalism still like a dirty word people equate that with world war ii and like chauvinism or
00:46:29.600racism or colonialism or militarism or jingoism and yorm hazzoni says well no there's something0.86
00:46:36.960good about nationalism and he's coming at it from the point of view of course he's a jewish
00:46:42.280nationalist he's an israeli he lives in israel he's a jew he's a follower of meyer kahana who's0.54
00:46:48.380a rabbi that says that all goyim should be enslaved or killed he's a fan he's a kahanist
00:46:53.460he's a fan of this guy and so when he says he's a jewish nationalist he means that there should0.94
00:46:58.760be an israeli state explicitly jewish demographically jewish it should be like a jewish
00:47:04.440fascist state like and if you if you know the history many of the early zionists some of them
00:47:11.180were sympathetic to the nazis they were national socialists and they wanted for israel what the
00:47:16.600nazis had in germany they wanted an aggressive militant chauvinistic jewish nationalism in
00:47:23.080Israel, guys like Ziv Jabotinsky, who knew Leo Strauss. They founded the Urgun, the Haganah,
00:47:30.400the original security apparatus that preceded the state of Israel. And anyway, so Hazoni puts out0.78
00:47:38.040this virtue of nationalism book, National Conservatism Conference, and it hosts all of
00:47:44.320the like Trumpist Republicans like Josh Hawley, who's railing against like porn companies and
00:47:51.160like high interest credit cards and they invite Marco Rubio and JD Vance and Ron DeSantis and
00:47:57.200hold up real quick you say you say like he's railing against I I like that I do too okay
00:48:02.920but here's what I'm saying like porn and usury he's against that that sounds good no and I like
00:48:08.840it but what I mean is there but who owns the stage who owns the venue it's like just like
00:48:16.180with reagan just like with bush the the israelis are sort of drafting behind the tip of the spear
00:48:25.020which is led by like the you know the far-right conservatives in terms of drafting i can speak
00:48:31.140to that a little bit um it does seem like just practically speaking the play is kind of um
00:48:36.820it's it's not overt um and it's not even inherently you know wrong um but it does
00:48:43.640seem like there's an intention. It's kind of like scouting. It really is. Drafting is a good word,
00:48:48.980but like kind of scouting, but exclusively on the right and looking for kind of rising stars and
00:48:54.260guys who might be key players and have some potential. And they're starting to build,
00:48:58.360you know, get a little traction, build a following. And so then, you know, it's a phone
00:49:01.900call, you know, or, you know, you reach out and email, Hey, can we do a phone call or something
00:49:06.200like that? And then the next stage is an all expenses trip paid to Israel. These sponsored
00:49:12.740trips and um and and i know guys that you know that i like who have been on the trips and some
00:49:18.000of them come back and then all of a sudden positive about israel others have come back and
00:49:23.600haven't appeared to change at all and a couple have come back and you know just kept right on
00:49:29.700jay posting calvin robinson god bless him yeah right he's like i'll take this uh the paid trip
00:49:35.500and then came back and like that i was like my man um you know but but i have noticed it's kind
00:49:41.100of like if you're kind of uh a rising star on the right you get a phone call you the the uh he got
00:49:48.220the call is a real thing you get the call then you get the trip and then and then you get the uh the
00:49:53.860invite to speak at natcon you know and uh and that and that doesn't mean that all of um so therefore
00:50:01.000anyone who's ever spoken at natcon is bad um but my point is that but it does seem like um an
00:50:07.840intentional play to kind of capture or at least so that we just at least want to keep an eye on
00:50:13.620him you know like so that every potential right-wing you know guy who could end up being
00:50:20.640like america first who could end up being like you um we we have our our hand on him yes and
00:50:28.520they do that but i'm speaking specifically like to their ideology the way they craft the ideology
00:50:35.240like my point is they recognize that nationalism is in vogue like everyone knows the evangelical
00:50:42.480dispensationalists are not cool yeah there's no young people that are into that that are like
00:50:47.700we love israel at like the mega church like that's out yes and the neocons are out they're like0.95
00:50:53.140cowboy we're gonna kill us some terrorists like that's out too what's in is like nietzsche uh
00:51:00.220nationalism, vitalism, like bodybuilding, aesthetics, like they know in some ways they've0.98
00:51:06.860created that too, but they know that's the mood of the moment around Trump. And so what they're
00:51:11.640doing is they're identifying, like they have in the past, the pro-Jewish politics with the mood
00:51:17.940of the moment. And so, for example, when Israel was bombing Hamas, I saw Darren Beattie, who is
00:51:25.480jewish and i probably agree with him on most things maybe because he's pretty based generally
00:51:30.620darren beady's also a jew and like he's got a weird background like he grew up on um kiribos
00:51:37.100or one of these like islands in the pacific they're they're always international they're
00:51:40.340never like born in america you know like iowa but darren beady that's just like a little um
00:51:46.740disclaimer jewish guy he runs revolver he's in the state department now he was in the first trump0.55
00:51:52.700Badman, Beattie said, well, Hamas is like the BLM of Israel. And so when Israel's bombing the hell
00:52:00.480out of Hamas, we should like that because they're like BLM. And then he said, we need to kick out0.98
00:52:06.600all these students protesting Israel because the students protesting against Israel were the same0.51
00:52:12.240ones doing BLM. And you see how it's like, oh, if I hate BLM, I hate Hamas too. I'm an anti-BLM0.66
00:52:20.740Hamas conservative, just like how back then you'd say, oh, if you hate Al Qaeda, you need to be0.96
00:52:25.500against the Palestinians. If you're against the Soviet Union, you need to be against Egypt. Like0.82
00:52:30.120it plays out this way. And it's so subtle because they're good at this. And this is where you have
00:52:36.240people, even when Trump was bombing Iran, you had all of these national conservatives, many of them
00:52:43.060saying, I think it's good that we're bombing Iran. We should bring back the Persian monarchy.0.91
00:52:48.340that would be based and it's like you're advocating for the most neocon like pro-israel i talk about a
00:52:56.320pro-israel policy regime change in iran that's like the definition of like a ambitious pro-israel
00:53:02.780policy but they're not calling it neocon they're pretending it's based and here were some of the
00:53:08.060qualifications they said well strictly speaking the neocon ideology properly understood as like
00:53:16.340democratic globalism. As Charles Krauthammer said, he said, we're going to confront anti-democratic
00:53:22.940regimes where it counts and when it's in our interest. And coincidentally, that was in Iraq,
00:53:28.480you know, but like the idea behind neoconservatism was we're going to plan a democracy. We're going
00:53:34.520to do regime change and then we're going to nation build and make Iraq a democracy because
00:53:39.120then they'd be our ally and then other countries would be democracies and so on. So when they
00:53:43.980agitate for war in iran they're saying it's not neocon because uh we're not going to make them a
00:53:49.340democracy and we're not going to nation build we're just going to regime change into a based
00:53:53.760persian monarchy and it's like okay but it's the same thing like realistically so this is how they
00:54:00.360evolve over time and that's why i say it's kind of important to understand the kind of genealogy
00:54:06.000and some of the pedigree here of the neocons because it it's not the same but it rhymes it
00:54:13.200echoes it's uh it's a sort of um what's the word for it in uh in music i don't remember it but um
00:54:20.480but it's the same bit played over and over again yeah a tag um yeah it seems like you know it
00:54:29.280changes but the common denominator from what i hear you saying is at its heart it's still israel
00:54:34.360first yes it's whatever you know and trying to make it sound like it'll also be good for america
00:54:39.700but it's, it's America is still the leftovers. Right. We'll make this as good for America as
00:54:46.260it possibly can be so long as Israel gets what it needs, what it wants. Yeah. All right. Well,0.98
00:54:52.440great episode. I appreciate your time. I appreciate the history lesson. There's a lot
00:54:57.000to unpack there. I'll probably go back and watch this one. Hope that the listeners enjoyed it
00:55:01.800and we'll see you again in the next episode. Thanks. Thanks. For those of you who may not
00:55:06.780be aware, I have the immense privilege of also serving as president for a sister organization
00:55:12.760to NXR Studios, which is a non-profit 501c3 Christian organization called Right Response
00:55:20.900Ministries. Our focus with this organization is to train and equip pastors and congregants
00:55:28.820in the Protestant church, primarily the evangelical church, right here in America. What are we
00:55:35.600trying to train them in? Well, let's just say we're trying to help evangelical Protestant
00:55:40.980churches in America to stop being so insufferable, to stop being Zionist shields, to be engaged,0.51
00:55:49.380not apathetic, but activated in the realm of politics and culture. The things that you've
00:55:55.060been hearing in this series that myself and Nick Fuentes are talking about, we want to see
00:56:00.760Protestant churches right here in America apply these things to get in the game, to win our
00:56:07.100country back. We want to see evangelicals and Protestants in America actually be America first,
00:56:14.820not serving a foreign country at the expense of our own interest, but serving Christ and serving
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