The NXR Podcast - July 29, 2026


THE SPECIAL - The Secret Tip For How Gen-Z Can Own A Home (w⧸Joe Garrisi)


Episode Stats


Length

52 minutes

Words per minute

183.77

Word count

9,667

Sentence count

229

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Toxicity

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

18

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 No, but I'm a fan of 30-year mortgages.
00:00:02.180 Here's it again against Dave Ramsey.
00:00:04.180 And that's because if you really, really want to pay it off faster, you can.
00:00:08.500 But what happens if you lose your job or the economy changes
00:00:11.340 or AI comes and takes over your coding job or whatever it may be,
00:00:15.560 you know, you have the option to have a lower priced mortgage.
00:00:20.540 Flexibility in finances is one of the key factors
00:00:23.840 of being able to be wealthy is being able to flex when you need to.
00:00:28.200 Don't go anywhere.
00:00:28.920 I told you it was going to happen. We've just added two new speakers to our lineup for the NXR
00:00:34.120 Studios 2026 conference. We have Pastor Eric Kahn and Pastor Brian Sauve, two of our personal
00:00:40.160 friends from Refuge Church in Ogden, Utah, coming out, joining us for the conference and speaking.
00:00:46.240 The conference title, Christ is King, America After Trump. This is November 12th, 13th, and 14th,
00:00:52.600 Thursday through Saturday, a stacked lineup from J.P. Sears, James Fishback, Joshua Hames,
00:00:59.420 Calvin Robinson, Dale Partridge, Harrison Smith, and yours truly, Joel Webbin.
00:01:03.860 But if you register by the end of this month, July 31st, that's a Friday, coming up quick
00:01:10.280 at 11.59 p.m., you can use promo code PATRIOT, one word, all caps, PATRIOT, to get a deep
00:01:17.540 discount.
00:01:18.380 Individual tickets, now $150.
00:01:20.780 You want to come as a married couple? $250. Bring the whole family? $350 by using promo code
00:01:28.220 PATRIOT. Just go to newchristianright.com forward slash conference. Newchristianright.com
00:01:35.240 forward slash conference. Interested in advertising with us? In the month of August,
00:01:41.180 NXR is offering our advertising 50% off to all companies that are Christian owned. 0.63
00:01:48.200 just email advertising at nxrstudios.com and now back to our show
00:01:56.120 radical christian nationalist pastor joel webin joel webin i'm gonna talk about joel webin
00:02:04.660 joel webin is an excellent
00:02:18.200 all right welcome back to the nxr special this is every wednesday at 5 p.m eastern time and we
00:02:31.920 are beginning a mini three-part series myself and joe garracy and i'm super excited we're going to
00:02:37.640 be talking about something that may not necessarily be the most exciting topic in the world the most
00:02:43.320 fascinating the most fringe or you know whatever but um but it arguably is one of the most important
00:02:49.540 one of the most helpful we have a country to save yeah we are in big trouble we need patriots and
00:02:55.920 god-fearing christian nationalists to burst through the ranks to be leaders we want to actually
00:03:01.340 seize power power is not inherently a virtue or a vice it's a tool we want to seize power and
00:03:09.720 wield it righteously and there are several means to power but one of them is financial wealth and
00:03:15.640 so we want to be good stewards and we actually want to not only pay the bills but we want to
00:03:20.660 be able to leave an inheritance to our children's children as the proverbs say and be able to use
00:03:25.240 wealth even in our lifetime not merely for comfort or for for pleasure but for influence and power to
00:03:31.420 steer the nation towards godliness and so right here out of the gate i i want to start we're going
00:03:37.200 to ask a lot of different questions. What are practical ways of building wealth in today's
00:03:43.400 financial climate? But I want to start with a name. This is kind of like the Christian guru
00:03:49.280 of all wealth, finance, advice, and strategy. And I'll just show my hand right up front and be
00:03:56.220 honest. I think that he has done a lot of good and also a lot of harm. I think that here's the guy,
00:04:03.720 dave ramsey i think that dave ramsey helped an entire generation uh but it was a previous
00:04:09.940 generation not gen z right but they he helped an entire generation of boomers and maybe some gen
00:04:15.360 xers um get out of debt but i i think he got them out of debt but also got them out of some of the
00:04:23.220 mechanisms and streams that would have produced real wealth yes um so he got them out of debt to
00:04:29.760 where they could pay the bills and and be able to you know to survive throughout the course of
00:04:36.420 their life from cradle to grave but in terms of of helping them not just get out of debt but get
00:04:42.240 into real wealth building strategies right i don't think it was helpful for that even for that
00:04:48.480 generation boomers and gen x but now when you skip forward and you look at the lay of the land today
00:04:53.520 for millennials and Gen Z and Gen Alpha, I feel like the advice of Dave Ramsey, it's a principled
00:05:00.860 advice that I actually agree with the principles. And I think they model a lot of the biblical
00:05:05.320 principles, but it's not pragmatic. It's not practical. It's not the world that we live in
00:05:11.000 today. And I think there's a way of being beautiful losers. There's a way of being so principled 0.98
00:05:17.180 that it's like i use this analogy a lot it's like um being in a basketball league and uh all the
00:05:24.160 referees and all the guys who you know who run the league um all of them have decided together
00:05:29.560 they've collaborated conspired together that they're not going to enforce uh any rules on
00:05:35.120 traveling so all the teams in the league um nobody's dribbling the ball they're just running
00:05:39.580 up the court holding the ball but your coach on your team well i'm principled i'm a principled
00:05:46.980 boomer and it doesn't matter what the referees are calling and it doesn't matter what the league
00:05:51.180 rules are uh basketball at a fundamental level requires dribbling so our team is going to dribble
00:05:56.860 um well you're you're principled your coach is principled but your team is going to lose
00:06:01.980 and i feel like dave ramsey is is playing by a set of rules that um that are are putting people
00:06:10.720 putting Christians at a disadvantage. So let's start with this. Joe Garrison, welcome to the
00:06:16.660 show. Thank you. What do you think? Let's start charitable, steel man for us, Dave Ramsey,
00:06:22.820 and the good that he's done, but then point out for us, after you've steel manned him,
00:06:27.400 what are some of the gaping weaknesses? Sure. Well, I actually used to teach financial peace
00:06:32.860 many years ago when I was taught that. When I was in Texas, I used to live in Texas.
00:06:37.520 Okay. And so his principles are straight from the Bible, which is live below your means,
00:06:43.580 save your money, protect your family, grow wealth, absolutely perfect. And that's what
00:06:49.080 we should be doing. His problem is the details where the application, and that's our really
00:06:54.860 real theology is in our orthopraxy. Right. So his details of focus on debt. He takes a half
00:07:02.700 a verse out of proverbs you know the debtor is slave to the lender okay that's a statement it's
00:07:08.420 not there for a lifestyle that's his problem and he actually tells people to pay off zero interest
00:07:15.840 debt before they invest yeah i like that that's horrific um and so there's actually three debt
00:07:22.620 strategies to get out and he's the big champion he didn't create but he's the big champion of
00:07:28.040 the snowball method which is line up all your debt by size pay off the smallest debt regardless
00:07:34.580 of interest rate including that zero percent debt uh and pay that off and what that gives you
00:07:40.480 is some wins some emotional fuzzy wuzzy wins but that doesn't help with the finances right and so
00:07:46.660 he then takes that amount you pay off and to the next debt into the next debt into the next debt
00:07:50.840 until all debt is paid off besides house for some reason he separates house debt in that and then he
00:07:57.140 tells people only get a 15-year mortgage and you should not have a credit score okay i'm i'm an
00:08:04.060 antagonistic to 15-year mortgages i like paying off houses but it is not efficient way to deal
00:08:09.380 with money if you go get a uh five six percent loan on money you can reinvest it at double digits
00:08:15.480 his own his own math in the stock market is average 12 growth right so if you have a house
00:08:21.680 at six percent you know you could invest it at 12 or pay off a six percent like that's really easy
00:08:27.820 math on what's better long term right so the the pain off on all debt before you invest you ring
00:08:35.080 the bell and say i'm out of consumer debt and now you're broke and have no money and can't feed your
00:08:38.620 family right right so we actually need money for legacy we need money for inheritance we need money
00:08:43.460 to feed our families um so it's not just focusing on debt the there's another method called the
00:08:49.200 avalanche method which lines up debt by interest rate that's better yeah still focus on debt but
00:08:56.080 the avalanche method says hey pay off the high interest rate debt the whole listing method goes
00:09:01.120 hey what's best for the net worth the net worth is all assets with all debt some together with
00:09:07.900 the bottom line there's your net worth where do you place a dollar to increase the net worth
00:09:13.760 now middle class actually says okay so i earn a dollar and where do i place it i have this one
00:09:20.040 dollar where's the best place for this one dollar okay should i put it on debt that's what dave
00:09:25.180 ramsey says should i put it on assets well first of all depending on what's the interest rate if
00:09:30.500 you have a credit card debt at 30 interest rate which is common pay that off because that's equal
00:09:35.820 to investing the money at a guaranteed 30 but if you can re-collateralize your debt that means move
00:09:41.520 it around for a different collateral and actually reduce the interest rate down to zero to three
00:09:46.100 percent you should then not be aggressively paying that off right i'll take a three percent loan as
00:09:51.880 much as i can get because i'll go invest it and make more than that that's easy so you can look
00:09:56.580 at doing something called balance transfers where you actually move debt from one credit card to
00:10:01.080 the next they'll charge you a three percent fee on the balance they'll give you zero percent for
00:10:04.560 12 months and as long as you pay it off in 12 months or bounce it again to another balance
00:10:09.340 transfer before the 12 months are up you can actually keep that moving at three percent and
00:10:14.320 pay it off and therefore slow release that debt because if you then place the one dollar into the
00:10:20.380 three percent loan or into using Dave Ramsey's math because I can't guarantee stock market money
00:10:25.480 because this is not tax advice and investment advice this is ideas you can place that into
00:10:30.200 an investment account making 12 okay three or 12 what's a bigger number okay so but you have to get
00:10:36.460 past the emotion, the wanting for emotional release of having a line item on your balance
00:10:43.540 sheet that says we don't have any consumer debt. The wealthy don't look at that. They don't care
00:10:49.140 about that. They're looking at net worth growth. What's the most efficient? The wealthy actually
00:10:55.580 go into using that same dollar multiple times. That's not what the middle class do. That's not 0.61
00:11:01.960 middle class are taught the middle class are taught okay i have this dollar pay off debt then
00:11:06.840 go into roth ira because roth ira grows tax-free and we can use it in the glorious time of which
00:11:13.220 is retirement unfortunately that hurts the ability to share legacy that hurts the ability to help
00:11:19.520 launch your kids you're focused on your own retirement time and living tax-free versus
00:11:25.520 what's the best net of taxes growth right what the wealthy do is they grow money into assets
00:11:33.280 that they can borrow against and reinvest again so they use that same dollar multiple times this
00:11:40.520 is what elon musk did with twitter he put up his tesla stock as collateral borrowed against it and
00:11:46.380 bought twitter he didn't use his own money right so this is what my wealthy clients do we invest
00:11:51.800 for them they borrow against it and they reinvest whether that's into the market or into a business
00:11:57.740 or into their real estate and what i really enjoy doing for clients is we can actually tune that up
00:12:03.900 even more efficient is if someone goes through a liquidity event like real common is sell a house
00:12:10.460 they've been living in the house for a while there's a large gain right you sell the house
00:12:14.680 and joe here's 500 000 here's a million here's five million whatever it is they have this money
00:12:20.160 middle class mindset is hey let's take this money and buy a new house because the goal is to get out
00:12:25.280 of debt and now we have a very low house payment or no house payment and hey didn't we win we don't
00:12:30.140 have a house payment that's not the definition of winning unfortunately according to the bible
00:12:33.420 so what we do is we take that liquidity event money we go invest it they go get a full mortgage
00:12:41.240 i know dave ramsey is really having a problem now um when they go get a full mortgage losing his
00:12:46.360 mind right now go ahead yes yes absolutely because you're right yes correct i told people to get a
00:12:51.180 mortgage um go get a mortgage and the reason why is as christians we should be tithing to our
00:12:57.000 churches right okay and if you add the interest on the first 750 000 is a tax deduction itemization
00:13:03.680 line item so now if you go get today's market a six percent loan ish okay and you net that you
00:13:11.400 deduct it okay let's say you're in a 33 for your top marginal tax bracket so you actually the net
00:13:18.060 effect to you is four percent loan like that's redonkulously cheap a four percent loan when you
00:13:23.940 got to look at net okay and then they give money to us and i'm gonna use dave ramsey's math numbers
00:13:28.600 and we grow the money at 12 and what if they say joe i don't want to have my house payment no
00:13:33.420 problem i'll make your house payment out of your investments right so now you go get a free tax
00:13:39.800 deduction you didn't have before and we're you're still not paying the house payment we send you a
00:13:44.120 check every month and we're going to outpace most likely i can't guarantee right um most likely the
00:13:50.580 interest rate not only the four but the six we will outpace it with your investments and then
00:13:57.300 you can tie that of that money too you're getting an extra bump out of your account because you can
00:14:01.380 tie that of it on rate of return and now you have money for legacy yeah because your net worth is 0.97
00:14:07.320 growing faster and that's a major problem in today's culture with christians we don't have 0.97
00:14:12.440 money right and so we need to be shrewd on how we're growing our money we need to do what the 0.99
00:14:17.600 wealthy are doing right like this little tiny strip country over in the middle east they're
00:14:21.940 really shrewd at how to grow money yeah we need to act like that right let me ask you a question
00:14:26.940 does the person who's managing your money actually share your values for most christians the answer
00:14:32.440 probably no. Your retirement account is likely sitting with firms like Vanguard or BlackRock,
00:14:39.520 companies that don't share your worldview and certainly are not helping you build wealth
00:14:44.880 with a distinctly Christian vision for your family. That's why I want to tell you about
00:14:50.140 my friend Joe Garrison and the team at Backwards Planning Financial. Joe is one of us. He understands
00:14:57.840 that financial planning is not just about chasing returns. It's about stewarding what God has
00:15:04.560 entrusted to you. Whether it's investments, estate planning, tax strategy, insurance,
00:15:10.700 debt structure, or protecting your business and your family, they help Christians make wise
00:15:16.640 financial decisions that actually align with their convictions. You don't have to figure it all out
00:15:22.840 on your own, and you don't have to keep swimming upstream with advisors who don't share your
00:15:28.520 beliefs. So go to BackwardsPlanningFinancial.com, BackwardsPlanningFinancial.com, and you can
00:15:36.280 request a conversation with Joe and his team today. Again, that's BackwardsPlanningFinancial.com.
00:15:44.440 Yeah, no, I think of what Jesus says, you know, there's the parable of the shrewd,
00:15:49.320 And he uses that word, the shrewd servant.
00:15:52.140 Shrewd being not a sin.
00:15:54.340 It's not raw, blatant deceit.
00:15:57.820 It's not lying.
00:15:58.680 But the shrewd servant, that is, think cunning, wise, strategic.
00:16:03.580 And this servant, his master tells him, I've had it.
00:16:07.340 I'm sick of you.
00:16:08.400 You're about to be fired. 0.96
00:16:09.700 When I return, I'm going to let you go.
00:16:11.260 And so before his master returns, before he loses his job,
00:16:15.060 he quickly goes to all the debtors that are indebted to his master.
00:16:20.500 And he says, how much do you owe my master?
00:16:21.960 Oh, this much?
00:16:22.560 All right, well, let's settle the account for this lower amount.
00:16:25.400 And he settles all these accounts making friends.
00:16:28.720 And this is what Jesus says in the parable.
00:16:30.180 He makes friends for himself elsewhere before the bridge is fully burned with his master
00:16:37.720 so that now he has one bridge is burned.
00:16:41.420 He's got 20 new bridges with all these other people.
00:16:43.540 and then jesus says you know um make um make friends for yourself with uh with multiple people
00:16:51.120 and and the the moral of the story is is he actually says um and and he says this as as
00:16:57.260 though it's a condemnation an indictment right this is not positive it's negative he says
00:17:01.820 for the sons of the darkness are more shrewd than the sons of the light yes and the obvious
00:17:08.240 implication is that jesus is implying and it should not be so right it should not be so so
00:17:14.420 jesus is is not advocating for well you know what um if you're poor if you're sick if you're weak
00:17:22.520 if you know as long as you're pure then um well that's great um jesus of course he's the sinless
00:17:30.860 spotless son of god he never advocates for um for sin but he does allow for this this category
00:17:39.840 that is not sin but it is shrewd and he says look there's some things you can't do like it is true
00:17:47.880 that you know going back to the basketball league analogy it is true that um that when it comes to
00:17:53.700 the unbeliever right a lot of the teams in this league are cheating and we're not allowed to
00:18:00.400 blatantly cheat we're not allowed to steal kill you know and and sin in order to get ahead so yes 0.76
00:18:08.140 we are playing we are forced as followers of christ and and being you know submissive to his
00:18:14.960 law we are forced to play by the rules but within that grid within that framework of the timeless
00:18:22.720 truths and and blatant clear explicit commandments in scripture it still leaves a lot of room for
00:18:30.000 innovation creativity strategy these kinds of things and if christians are under the guise of
00:18:37.280 i'm just being obedient but their obedience is actually um what it's not true obedience it's it's
00:18:44.020 a uh my point is christians sometimes have their conscience bound too tight there are minister
00:18:49.840 ministers can do it financial advisors aka dave ramsey looking at you they can do it there are
00:18:55.440 plenty of experts a religious expert a minister a financial expert dave ramsey plenty of experts
00:19:02.800 authorities in every single sphere that i think for decades now for a couple generations have
00:19:10.120 been wrongfully binding the consciences of believers so tightly that they have not it hasn't
00:19:17.680 just kept them out of sin it's actually kept them out of innovation it's kept them out of strategy
00:19:23.280 And it's actually hamstrung our team to where the sons of darkness, like Jesus said, are now more shrewd than the sons of the light, and they keep prospering and increasing more and more.
00:19:37.480 And we find ourselves perpetually the borrower. 0.97
00:19:41.120 The very verse that Dave Ramsey is using, the advice he gives actually ensures that Christians remain the borrower and that the non-Christian remains the lender. 0.98
00:19:51.380 And I'm not saying that, we're not sitting here, we can say what someone does, right? And we can 0.93
00:19:58.480 say that with a clear conscience. We're allowed as Christians to discern and make judgments. The
00:20:02.780 spiritual man, the letters to the Corinthians from the Apostle Paul says, the spiritual man makes
00:20:08.760 judgments about all things, though he himself is not subject to any man's judgment. So we actually
00:20:14.080 can make judgments about what someone does, what someone says, and what their counsel, what their
00:20:19.860 advice produces right we're not going to sit here and make a judgment about someone's inward
00:20:24.200 motives correct so i'm not going to sit here and say that dave ramsey is working for the enemy and
00:20:28.760 that he's he's malicious and that he's actually trying to like i'm not saying that i i'm going
00:20:33.880 to be charitable and i actually i'm not just being charitable i think it's true right gun to my head
00:20:38.340 uh do i think that dave ramsey that his um his intentions are pure and that he's actually trying
00:20:44.060 to help people yeah i think so yeah um but is it actually helping people not really i think he was
00:20:51.180 helpful for a time um in the 80s 90s early 2000s with boomers and gen x when it came to one thing
00:20:59.840 in the realm of finance and it's only one thing it's not the thing it's one thing which was getting
00:21:04.080 out of debt but as it comes to the lay of the land economically today the way money works today
00:21:10.320 for younger generations millennials gen x gen alpha and not just getting out of debt but all
00:21:16.280 the other categories of money building wealth yes um are his in intentions to hamstring our team
00:21:22.320 no um but is the result the effect of the counsel he's giving doing precisely that in many cases
00:21:29.320 yes so here here's the big idea for episode one three episodes that we're going to be doing with
00:21:35.600 with this this series on finances we want christians to be rich right money is not the
00:21:42.020 root of all kinds of evil the love of money is so we want christians to wield money as as one
00:21:48.320 form of power to that's neither a vice inherently nor is it a virtue inherently but it is a tool
00:21:56.080 we want christians to be able to wield this sword to push back the kingdom of darkness and push for
00:22:02.260 the crown rights of king jesus the kingdom of light and to leave an inheritance not only for
00:22:06.780 our children but our grandchildren as the proverbs say a wise man or a good man leaves an inheritance
00:22:11.820 for his children's children so this is episode one i want to start here we did the dave ramsey
00:22:16.640 thing uh but now kind of a 30 000 foot view the death of the american middle class that's what i
00:22:24.220 see happening i know that's what you see uh joe we see the rich getting richer yes and we see not
00:22:29.600 just the poor getting poor that's happening right the poor uh used to be uh financing their car um
00:22:36.320 now they're financing burritos yes right we're talking about um exorbitant predatory forms of 0.93
00:22:43.000 usury yep which is a very jewish thing yeah not all jews are doing it um it's not all jews but 0.93
00:22:50.200 it kind of is always jews um but there's a lot of white guys uh is white as the driven snow with a 0.56
00:22:57.220 european heritage to scotland and ireland uh tracing back 14 generations and they're doing 0.51
00:23:02.440 it too everyone at some level the wealthy regardless of religious affiliation or ethnic
00:23:07.960 um a lot of the wealthy is guilty across the board making the rich richer and making the
00:23:14.040 poor poor but it's not just that that's been happening for a long time over the last 20 30
00:23:18.200 years something else is happening it's not just that the poor are becoming poor but those who
00:23:23.360 were previously not poor are becoming poor the middle class is evaporating so instead of uh
00:23:29.380 lower class middle class upper class what we are quickly uh seeing in real time and and i'm i'm
00:23:35.800 talking this is not like oh in the next 50 years 100 no it feels like in the next five to 10 years
00:23:40.880 there will be no middle class that that seems like a real plausible possibility is it in a very
00:23:48.160 short window of time, the middle class of America will no longer exist. It will be the wealthy and
00:23:55.840 the poor. So the death of the American middle class, there's a lot of reasons for that. Let's
00:24:01.360 start here. Your parents were told to keep their housing payment below 25 to 30 percent of their
00:24:07.160 total income. I just want to ask you point blank, is that still realistic for families today?
00:24:13.260 the average family no no gen z like if gen z is listening to dave ramsey uh you cannot get a
00:24:20.840 mortgage that's going to be above 25 to 30 percent of uh your income i hear that and i think um not
00:24:27.180 necessarily his intention but in terms of what it will actually do uh you just effectively told
00:24:32.940 gen z that they're not allowed to own a house and that they're going to be building someone else's
00:24:37.080 wealth for the entire course of their lives right is that fair yeah that's right so what what does 0.90
00:24:43.080 gen z need to do because they need to own homes yeah it's probably going to be more than 25 30 0.69
00:24:48.060 yes but there are ways of doing this it's still shrewd and wise so let's start their house how 1.00
00:24:55.700 does a 25 year old today newly married he's a christian wants to have a quiver full of children
00:25:01.780 right how does he get a house joe uh one he needs to be willing to spend more than 25 to 30 on his
00:25:09.660 house payment. He has to. Has to. And why? Why is that worth it? Because long-term, you're growing
00:25:17.560 an asset versus throwing your money in the trash when you're renting. Right. Renting is gone. Money's
00:25:22.260 gone. It's a lease. When you lease anything, you only get to use it for a short time period.
00:25:27.780 You never walk away. Never. Most of the time, you never walk away with an asset. And so you're
00:25:33.460 looking at building someone else's wealth when you're renting. And so you also have to have a
00:25:39.420 long-term view. Unfortunately, today's culture does not have long-term views, whether where
00:25:45.640 we're working, who we have loyalty to. Employers no longer have that same thing where, hey,
00:25:51.160 we're going to hire this person and you're going to be with me for 20, 30, 40 years the rest of
00:25:55.380 your life. You're with my team now the rest of my life. Right. And you see that on when folks
00:26:02.360 need a pay raise or a promotion, they have to jump to another company and jump back. I hear it all
00:26:08.040 the time oh i gotta jump to a competitor and come back and then i'll get a promotion and pay raise
00:26:12.100 and that is horrible the retraining of employees is very costly we have a culture of bouncing we
00:26:18.240 have a culture of lack of loyalty and so employees are worried rightfully so will they have an income
00:26:25.320 or can they afford it but if they look five years in the future having a fixed rate mortgage when
00:26:31.700 with inflation pay raises should go up okay or if they bounce and they increase their income and
00:26:37.720 they have a fixed payment it'll come down to the 25 it'll come down to the 15 smart smart yeah
00:26:44.760 but you have to have long term that's so simple but it is undeniably true and that's being that's
00:26:52.500 being missed so it's not just oh you'll be ahead 30 years from now when your house is paid off
00:26:55.640 like don't miss what joe just said um what you're saying is that yes inflation on the whole right
00:27:01.640 now is is the increase in inflation is exceeding the increase of of raises with earnings that's
00:27:07.640 true but if you get locked in with your house payment then that's not inflating right so so
00:27:13.220 your groceries still are your gas still is but on that house payment you're locked in it's fixed
00:27:18.240 yes and it's not just this will be you'll be better off 30 years later at the end of your
00:27:22.500 mortgage when your house is paid off no what you're saying is that it could be anywhere from
00:27:26.140 three to seven years you could only be you know a quarter of your way into this 30 year note yes and
00:27:32.680 at that point your wages have continued to grow um the cost of everything else aside from the
00:27:39.240 house because that you're locked in everything else might be growing at a quicker pace than
00:27:43.680 your wages but on the house side of the equation yes that's fixed and so even if your wages are
00:27:49.680 only two three percent per year growing um you might have bought the house year one and it was
00:27:56.180 40 right and we're not saying that's great nobody's celebrating that correct but it is what it is but
00:28:01.860 by year seven with your wages increasing now it actually is in this range of 25 to 30 percent
00:28:07.780 not by year 30 but by year seven yes um which is real possibility a no-brainer and so so with that
00:28:15.200 um real quick i think it's worth getting into to this question um can you just flesh out for the
00:28:22.560 listener what's the difference between productive debt because because that's the thing christians
00:28:27.340 because dave ramsey kind of one-shotted an entire generation of christians they hear debt and they
00:28:32.920 hear they basically hear sin they hear the conscience has been wrongfully bound too tightly
00:28:38.280 they hear debt and they always think debt bad debt bad debt bad so can you just real quickly
00:28:44.540 explain or or even not so quickly because this is vital so take as much time as you need sure
00:28:49.760 productive debt versus destructive debt yeah yes so there's lots of kinds of productive debt
00:28:56.680 it's not just purely financial productive that is an aspect but there's also skill set there's also
00:29:03.800 culturally important debt talk about me personally for a second i've had multiple major surgeries on
00:29:11.160 my intestine, I would not be alive without doctors. Right. I have had surgeries on my eyes.
00:29:16.740 I would be blind without doctors. I'm glad doctors take on debt. I'm glad the surgeons took on debt
00:29:24.420 so that we have quality surgeons that can go in when emergencies happen. I know I can go get the
00:29:30.420 help. So it's not it's not just finance. There is finance. There's culturally important things that
00:29:36.120 we need opportunistically. So yes, I want the highly trained, highly specific skills that have
00:29:44.280 a lot of money to go get that. I need them to go take on debt. Airline pilots. I want them to be
00:29:50.860 really skilled airline pilots and it's expensive. I also want them to be really male, really white 1.00
00:29:57.280 and really old. The two colors you want to see with your pilot is gray and white. Preferably. 0.85
00:30:04.040 right it's like hey we've got a 25 year old lesbian black woman who's going to be the pilot 1.00
00:30:08.960 yes you get off that plane so but but you're but you're right all that kind of skilled labor 1.00
00:30:14.080 whether it's a surgeon whether it's a pilot whether it's whatever um very few of these
00:30:18.400 people are able to enter that field debt-free yeah and if it and and you want the very best
00:30:23.920 of the best right i don't want my pilot you know so i i made the you know the whole dei joke but
00:30:29.200 let's take that aside let's say both of them are white dudes all right uh they're both male they're
00:30:33.040 both white and they're both thinking about being a pilot i don't i don't want the only people able
00:30:38.420 to enter that field to be those people who are trust fund babies whose parents were rich right
00:30:42.400 because there might be some other guy who actually is smarter who's more talented more gifted whose
00:30:47.480 parents just weren't rich and i want him because he actually has the potential to be the very best
00:30:52.800 pilot yeah right my family's going to go on vacation i'd like to get there in one piece
00:30:57.460 I want that guy to be able to have an opportunity to fly my family's plane.
00:31:02.460 Yes.
00:31:03.240 Yes.
00:31:03.440 So 100% agree.
00:31:04.680 Yeah.
00:31:04.940 So, and then we get into the finance on just straight up good debt.
00:31:08.840 Okay.
00:31:09.080 So if I can go and borrow money and have an asset that's growing at a faster value, right?
00:31:16.180 Long-term, it's going to outpace the debt.
00:31:18.540 Right.
00:31:18.960 Okay.
00:31:19.180 So what is good debt?
00:31:20.360 A house we just talked about absolutely having.
00:31:23.480 A burrito.
00:31:24.000 I'm a fan of 30-year loans.
00:31:25.580 A burrito?
00:31:26.220 That's good debt.
00:31:27.060 No.
00:31:27.460 no get a peanut butter jelly sandwich i don't okay um so no but i'm a fan of 30-year mortgage
00:31:33.380 here's it again against dave ramsey and that's because if you really really want to pay it off
00:31:38.300 faster you can but what happens if you lose your job or the economy changes or ai comes and takes
00:31:44.160 over your coding job or whatever it may be you know you have the option to have a lower priced
00:31:49.880 mortgage flexibility in finances is one of the key factors of being able to be wealthy is being
00:31:57.700 able to flex when you need to right so yes 30-year mortgages are great mortgages on houses are great
00:32:05.340 um and if you lock that in and then there's a there's a trick in the the mortgage world
00:32:09.800 um actually is getting a mortgage with the option to recast okay this is not refinance you go talk
00:32:16.500 to your mortgage officer hey i want the option to recast they'll say sure you can refinance that
00:32:20.420 loan and the reason why is refinancing the loan you pay full closing costs that's a five-figure
00:32:25.660 number typically and that mortgage salesman gets a whole nother commission but if you recast the
00:32:31.220 loan they don't get a commission so what that does typically is you have to put a put a lump on the
00:32:35.480 payment you keep the same length of loan so if you're four years in you keep the same 26 years
00:32:40.160 left you don't have to restart it like a refinance and you lower your interest rate to current market
00:32:45.340 rates typically cost about a thousand bucks is all to do this it is glorious i've done it myself
00:32:51.120 but you have to have a loan with the option to do this so when you're getting a loan talk to your
00:32:57.160 mortgage salesman and say does this loan have the option to recast gives you flexibility so when
00:33:03.000 rates drop you can drop it okay so and then you have a non-long lock i think my interest rate
00:33:09.340 right now is like 2.4 or something crazy um and you haven't walked in for a nice long time
00:33:15.000 okay but those come when we don't know they're going to come and so you have to have the option
00:33:20.320 to strike on that i don't like having to restart the loan and stretch it out another 30 years
00:33:25.540 okay if you if that's all you have a choice for fine it's still worth it uh if you can drop a
00:33:30.900 point or so off the mortgage um but if you can invest money we were talking earlier invest money
00:33:35.960 the type of tool I was referring to is called a non-qualified account.
00:33:40.320 So most people have never heard that term.
00:33:42.500 So every type of account is either qualified or non-qualified.
00:33:46.840 Qualified means like a restricted account.
00:33:49.500 401ks, IRAs, 403bs, et cetera.
00:33:52.600 Restricted access based on age.
00:33:54.760 Non-qualified is what most people have for a savings account.
00:33:57.800 Okay, savings account, you can put as much money as you want in,
00:34:00.000 as much money as you want out, penalty free.
00:34:02.220 The negative on non-qualified accounts
00:34:04.180 is taxes on the gain you realize every year.
00:34:07.500 So most people stay away from the taxes.
00:34:09.520 I would rather have a Roth IRA.
00:34:11.060 That's tax-free.
00:34:12.260 Joe, you're saying I should pay taxes
00:34:13.760 when I don't have to pay taxes?
00:34:15.920 Yes, because it's more flexible
00:34:17.400 because you can tie that of it
00:34:19.520 and you can borrow against it.
00:34:20.760 So now you can use it three times, okay?
00:34:23.820 So imagine using your investment.
00:34:26.300 If you use the stock market, okay,
00:34:28.360 and it grows at the 12% average,
00:34:30.220 uh you can use that to tithe and it's an extra gain on your money having the stock market help
00:34:37.920 pay your tithe is glorious okay so that's like a free bump in increase in value on your assets by
00:34:44.400 doing this it's really easy on the church side they set up an investment account to receive in
00:34:49.000 the name of the church right you give over the shares there's more things to it to make sure you
00:34:52.480 do it legal beagle and etc so that you don't actually have to liquid it you don't actually
00:34:56.220 have to sell correct and then pay gain so you like correct so you have apple stock or whatever
00:35:00.600 it is or tesla yeah we we've had um it's funny you know you know who does that uh in in in my
00:35:07.820 entire tenure of being you know in ministry as a pastor uh that we've had to do that with both
00:35:14.120 churches that i've pastored is set up you know get situated to where we can receive you know
00:35:18.580 shares from somebody. And we've done that, not for the average family. It's always been one or
00:35:26.720 two families that give that way. And it's not a coincidence, but it's always the most wealthy
00:35:33.860 families in the church. In other words, these people are not just wealthy because they got
00:35:40.060 lucky. These people are wealthy because they know something that the average person doesn't.
00:35:44.320 right they have tricks of the trade yes they have good practices they know how to tithe without
00:35:50.520 having to liquidate without having to pay tax like right um and right and it's really a shame
00:35:55.960 because so much of this yes god is providential god is sovereign over everything not everybody's
00:36:01.520 going to be rich we get that um but there's a difference in you know the lot that the lord has
00:36:07.960 afforded to you yes um in his sovereignty what he's ordained versus um actually the lord would
00:36:14.740 grant to me more um but i'm actually just ignorant yeah that's that's what we want to try to mitigate
00:36:21.220 yes is um a lack of knowledge right there's always going to be one guy who is 150 iq and able to be a
00:36:29.100 brain surgeon and another guy who's going to be a um a mason and god bless both of them right but
00:36:35.480 one's going to have a higher earning potential than the other yes um that's that that is what
00:36:40.960 it is and uh and the lord determines that and there's not a whole lot you know that we can do
00:36:46.800 about it but what we can do about it is we can make sure that the mason who's laying brick at
00:36:52.680 least has the same kind of knowledge of good financial practices as the brain surgeon so
00:36:58.800 that the brain surgeon still has a higher earnings sure but at least this guy's not getting robbed
00:37:03.400 yes yes there's there's a couple other tweaks you can do to even increase that
00:37:08.340 um there's a strategy called lumping which is giving multiple tithe years you got to have the
00:37:14.020 money up front of course so let's say you have a larger income year or let's say you're even right
00:37:19.640 the standard deduction for a couple is roughly 30 grand we're talking rough numbers here right now
00:37:24.820 so let's say your tax deductions equal itemized at 30 grand and so you're getting no extra tax
00:37:32.080 benefit well why don't you give next year's tithe in this year you weren't going to get a tax
00:37:38.800 benefit for next year you're not going to get a tax benefit for this year's tithe but if you give
00:37:43.480 next year's tithe this year even if you give it on december 31st okay it's this tax year and now
00:37:50.180 you're getting a write-off for it you're getting extra tax money back what's your top tax bracket
00:37:55.660 that's your savings so if your top marginal tax bracket is the 25 bracket for an easy number
00:38:00.960 and you're tied this 10 grand for an easy number
00:38:03.740 and you can't get a tax benefit for it this year,
00:38:06.240 but you could if you doubled it up,
00:38:09.060 that's a growth of $2,500 for giving a few days early.
00:38:14.920 Where are you going to get a guaranteed 25% gain on your money?
00:38:19.160 Nowhere, right?
00:38:20.520 That's what just doing one year
00:38:21.960 or you could do two or three years.
00:38:24.280 And then you can insert a control tool.
00:38:26.780 If let's say you don't want to give to the charity
00:38:29.000 or the church all of multiple years at once you would rather dribble it out you can put those
00:38:35.180 extra tithe years into a donor advised fund a daff it's just a control tool where you get a tax
00:38:41.420 deduction for the contribution and then you can write checks out to your church over the time
00:38:46.200 period that you want whenever you want yes that's smart and it's wonderful let's say you have a
00:38:50.500 liquidity event for business or you have a big commission because you're a commission salesman
00:38:55.120 abnormal income year. Well, why don't you do multiple tithe years to drop down that high
00:39:00.960 income tax bracket that year and then dribble it out over the next few years? And you can do the
00:39:05.560 same thing with stocks. If you've grown them, you can put them into the DAF. Now don't do above
00:39:10.620 your 30% AGI for appreciated stocks in that tax year. There's maximums you can do, but you can do
00:39:16.800 multiple strategies besides just the non-qualified account to be shrewd on how you tithe, to be
00:39:22.840 on extra gain on your money just because of when you tithe. It's a wonderful extra blessing. And
00:39:29.820 these are middle-class stuff. The wealthy do it, but the middle-class can do it. You don't require 0.62
00:39:36.240 a lot of extra money to do this stuff. Just some planning. Cool. That's super helpful. So let's end
00:39:41.900 going back to the house, thinking of younger generations, Gen Z, Gen Alpha. Back to something
00:39:47.520 you said earlier. I just want us to flesh it out just a little bit more. So 30-year mortgage,
00:39:52.840 um, you know, you, at the end of that 30 years, you actually, you own something, you have an
00:39:57.660 asset. Um, whereas if you're renting for 30 years, uh, you don't, you own nothing at the end of it.
00:40:03.460 You, you helped somebody else pay off their mortgage. So now they own an asset. Um, but you
00:40:08.080 don't, uh, the reason why, um, I think Gen Z just in a nutshell, to say it simply, the reason why I
00:40:15.040 think younger generations should buy a house, even if it's over Dave Ramsey's 25 to 30% of their
00:40:20.660 income, even if it's 40%, even 45%, things might be tight. But even if it's that high,
00:40:26.460 it's still worth owning and paying a mortgage is because there are some things. So going back to
00:40:32.340 good debt versus bad debt, part of it has to do with what's the interest rate. And part of it has
00:40:38.780 to do with, is this a consumable, a liability, something that depreciates like a car versus
00:40:44.580 something that appreciates like a house? What kind of asset are we talking about?
00:40:48.520 but another thing is um is it uh something that's inevitable it's a necessity you have to live
00:40:55.500 somewhere yes you're you are going to be paying for a house that's right it will either be paying
00:41:01.440 for your house or someone else's correct right so unless you're talking about living you know in a
00:41:06.540 tent with your family right in the woods somewhere you know which might not be the worst idea but
00:41:11.580 for for everybody except for that guy god bless you you know we're rooting for you um you know
00:41:17.000 doing the doing the alone thing if you ever watch that series you know you're doing that with your
00:41:21.400 wife and kids god bless you um but for everybody else the other 99.999 percent of people um you are
00:41:28.040 going to be in a house the house that you and your family are in you're going to have to pay for yeah
00:41:33.320 right so so here's my question now obviously there's a range here there's a sliding scale
00:41:38.880 it varies but but let's just say on average if we're looking at you know like i'd love to say
00:41:45.280 a $300,000 house, but these days, right, we live in just absolutely disgusting, wicked times.
00:41:52.900 And so that $300,000 house in a lot of places, depending where you live, doesn't exist. So let's
00:41:58.200 say it's $400,000 to $600,000 house. Let's just call it five, half a million dollar house. So
00:42:06.200 this is your, you know, now, you know, if you're in Manhattan, it may not exist, but most of the
00:42:13.100 country let's say for most of the country five hundred thousand dollars it's probably going to
00:42:17.200 get you three four bedrooms yeah two three bathrooms you're going to have probably it's
00:42:21.780 not just you know twelve hundred fourteen hundred square feet this is a twenty five hundred square
00:42:25.720 foot house maybe three thousand square foot house it's a good house right it's good house five
00:42:29.980 hundred thousand dollar house for you know 85 percent of america geographically that's going
00:42:35.080 to get you a good house that you can raise a family that five hundred thousand dollar house
00:42:39.220 on average you know putting you on the spot a little bit um renting the house versus buying
00:42:45.580 the house the difference in your monthly mortgage payment versus your monthly rent payment what is
00:42:51.200 what is the difference there how much more are you paying for the mortgage nothing so why don't
00:42:56.600 we do it lack of long-term thought yeah that's so at that point like i already i already gave
00:43:03.800 the disclaimer and said you know we're going to be charitable we're not omniscient we don't know
00:43:07.500 the inward thoughts of the heart and motives and stuff but at that point it's like it's it's such
00:43:13.020 bad advice i am tempted to say is this malicious is dave ramsey's like like intentionally trying
00:43:20.500 to destroy future generations if because here's the deal it's like well because that five hundred
00:43:26.280 thousand dollar house for that 25 year old who's married and his wife is pregnant with their first
00:43:30.780 or second kid right and that's the house they need because they're planning on having more children
00:43:34.620 and want to raise a family yes you just told me that that 500 000 house with three or four
00:43:40.020 bedrooms two or three bathrooms it's 25 2600 square feet uh this young guy he's 25 years old
00:43:46.180 he's got a wife and the second baby is on the way um you just told me that he can rent that house
00:43:52.440 or buy that house as it pertains to his monthly expense it's the difference is virtually not
00:43:59.160 negligible negligible um but dave ramsey would say okay but what is so for us it's like
00:44:06.120 the verdict is already back in you buy yeah that's all the that's all the variables we need to say
00:44:12.260 buy dave ramsey would say well wait a second what uh what do you make yeah and then if that guy
00:44:18.820 makes let's say the rent is um three thousand right because interest rates have the rent is
00:44:24.700 three thousand sure and the mortgage is three thousand yeah okay dave ramsey is going to say
00:44:29.580 well um do you make after taxes yeah nine thousand a month and if you don't he's going to say you
00:44:38.740 should spend the same amount of money rented that is like again i i do think i i think it's because
00:44:46.800 right um the best of boomers are still boomers at best i think it's he's just a product of his
00:44:52.280 generation yes he's a boomer yeah um but that kind of advice it may not be malicious intent
00:44:58.120 but in its effect it is devastating you are one-shotting an entire generation destroying
00:45:05.740 them financially by giving that advice so uh buying the house let's end it here um what is
00:45:12.840 what's your what's your best advice that 25 year old man gen z he wants to buy his first house
00:45:18.560 what in any practical advice of how to do that when to do that sure what do you say so um a point
00:45:25.540 that i've counseled a lot of young folks to do is why not have a close relative and you move into
00:45:33.140 the same house right you can rent out a room to your younger brother or somebody just starting
00:45:39.900 out and they don't have any money or low income right if they can rent a room and you love them
00:45:44.580 and trust them of course you have to do it for safety and who you trust etc right but if you can
00:45:49.060 rent out a room that helps you pay your mortgage for the time period they're there that extends
00:45:55.000 the time period or or shortens on how much you have to to load until your income makes it
00:46:01.740 affordable right so be creative on who you can rent out can you rent off space for an rv to
00:46:08.540 sit on your place how can you make more income off of it than you just sitting there right
00:46:14.380 you could could you do a side business in your garage or rent out that like how can you make
00:46:20.200 more money buy the house fixed rate mortgage as long as you can stretch it they joked a few was
00:46:26.680 it two years ago less than that about a 50-year mortgage yeah and i'm very unpopular and i'm a
00:46:31.980 fan of a 50-year mortgage okay why because if i can borrow money at a low interest rate and
00:46:37.700 reinvest it somewhere else i'll stretch that payment as long as you give me you give me a
00:46:41.400 hundred year mortgage i'll take it right yes right it's gonna extend past my life real quick
00:46:46.280 caveat on that because i actually do agree with you so i have been outspoken against the 50-year
00:46:50.500 mortgage but this is why um because i hate predatory loans and i don't think that is
00:46:56.260 predatory um inherently but i know that most people are financially uneducated and so they
00:47:02.060 would take that 50-year mortgage and they would just make the minimum monthly payment for 50 years
00:47:06.480 you the reason you like it is because you would never do that correct and any of your clients
00:47:11.200 you would never counsel that so the reason just i want to clarify that um because i actually agree
00:47:16.700 with you the reason why joe likes it is because even though from 30 to 50 years on the monthly
00:47:22.600 payment it only goes down maybe 400 500 it's small it's small right but then that extra 20
00:47:29.120 years of making that payment and the interest and all these kinds of things um you're you're
00:47:33.560 looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars more that you pay so you're paying you know four or
00:47:38.380 $500 less a month. But if you do the minimum payment for the full 50 years, you're going to
00:47:45.180 pay $400 less a month, $400,000 more on the total life of the loan. And you know that. The reason
00:47:52.960 why you're advocating for it is because you would never do that. So what would you do?
00:47:57.760 Yeah. So what I've done, and we don't have the time here for it, but you can go get a financial
00:48:01.720 calculator, right? And you can add, okay, so what is the amortization of a half a million dollar
00:48:08.040 loan at 6% at a 30 year and a 50 year? It'll tell you the principal and interest payment on the loan.
00:48:13.900 So, okay, you can put a simple Excel spreadsheet. Here's the payment on it. I don't have the numbers
00:48:19.060 in my head because I haven't done it pre this. Okay. And then, okay, so what's the difference?
00:48:23.080 Let's say it's $400. Don't hold me to that because I don't know what the difference is.
00:48:25.820 right okay so let's say 400 and then you invest 400 from the very beginning until the end of the
00:48:33.300 loan let's call it 50 years okay so you invest that 400 and at the end of 50 years what does
00:48:39.340 that investment grow to you can go get a financial calculator and fill finish that or pay it off in
00:48:44.800 30 years and at the end of 30 years invest the full principal and interest payment for 20 years
00:48:50.920 right okay which one ends up with more money you're right that that's where i'm going is the
00:48:56.620 mathematical where to place the dollars and how to expand it right that type exactly so it's the
00:49:03.700 same as it's not the same it's categorically different but but here's my point uh one of
00:49:08.760 the reasons i hate sports gambling i hate you know polymarket and all these kinds of things
00:49:13.760 is um is it possible for someone who's mature to it's like you're going to spend 20 bucks
00:49:21.380 these days to uh take your wife out for you know you're gonna actually spend a lot more
00:49:25.160 you get a popcorn um and and two movie tickets right and grandparents are watching the kids
00:49:30.960 and you're going you know you're gonna do dinner and a movie date night yeah um you're gonna spend
00:49:35.180 like 100 bucks if it's dinner and a movie you're gonna spend 100 bucks is it um is it permissible
00:49:40.540 for a guy not as a habit not on a regular basis but i don't know maybe it's once a year with his
00:49:48.720 other guy friends to do uh fantasy football and they each throw 100 bucks into a pool or whatever
00:49:55.780 and and the winner of that that year's league you know gets right i i don't think that that is
00:50:02.040 blatantly gambling or a lifestyle gambling like i sure there's some theological nuance and you
00:50:08.380 well actually like i i understand but i don't think you're going to hell all right i don't
00:50:13.500 think it's that bad um the reason suicide so then what's the big deal you know like uh because a
00:50:18.760 mature person can do a poly market you know bet on lebron james or like once in a blue moon with
00:50:24.920 you know peanuts compared you know he's he's wealthy like the big deal is because making
00:50:30.100 these things available to the general public yes here's the deal the general public is not the
00:50:34.760 wise mature believer the general public is the peanut gallery yeah and and they uh will either
00:50:41.040 not have the discipline or not have the knowledge and and for them it it will be detrimental so
00:50:47.020 that's just for the record that's the only reason i've been you know outspoken against the 50-year
00:50:51.220 mortgage because i know that 90 of the people who would use it if it became a thing would not do the
00:50:56.500 things that you just said no they'll use it to buy more house than they should yep that's your
00:51:01.180 problem. Yep. Joe, thank you. This has been a super helpful episode. We hope that it's been
00:51:05.620 a blessing to you. And this is the first, again, in a three-part series on finance.
00:51:11.380 What we really talked about in episode one is good debt versus bad debt and how can the younger
00:51:17.260 generation buy a house? If we were to sum it up, that's episode one. And we're going to be moving
00:51:22.520 into other topics of really focusing on investing and building wealth and those kinds of things in
00:51:28.160 episode two and episode three. So we hope that you stick with us for this journey. Everything we do
00:51:33.720 here at NXR Studios is simply one part of a three-pronged approach to winning America for
00:51:39.900 Christ. On the ground, we have our local church where I preach the Bible and administer word and
00:51:46.300 sacrament. Here at NXR Studios, we focus on politics and culture. But we have a third
00:51:53.040 organization that I am the president of, Right Response Ministries, that sits between the church
00:51:59.080 and NXR Studios. Right Response Ministries puts out weekly written and audio content focused on
00:52:06.480 theology, discipleship, and the church at large. If you'd like to support what we do over there,
00:52:13.320 Right Response Ministries is a 501c3 charitable organization, and your donation of any amount
00:52:20.600 is tax deductible. If you'd like to donate, you can simply go to rightresponseministries.com
00:52:27.320 forward slash donate. Again, that's rightresponseministries.com forward slash donate.
00:52:34.420 Thank you very much.