The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - 2 Important Debates ｜ Jared Moore Vs. Doug Wilson, William Wolfe Vs. James Lindsay

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00:00:40.880 evangelicals appear to be fighting amongst themselves once again so in this episode of

00:00:46.260 theology applied i'm joined by 80 robles in order to present everything you need to know regarding

00:00:52.360 two particularly interesting feuds. One of these disagreements is between Jared Moore and Douglas

00:00:58.420 Wilson on the subject of homosexuality and the doctrine of concupiscence. The other is between

00:01:05.160 William Wolfe and James Lindsay over the ever-controversial topic of Christian nationalism.

00:01:11.180 Although James Lindsay is not a Christian, there appears to be a surprising number of

00:01:15.940 conservative evangelicals taking his side of the issue. Buckle up, this episode gets a bit spicy.

00:01:24.660 Applying God's word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.

00:01:35.080 All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied. I am your host, Pastor Joel

00:01:39.420 Webman with Right Response Ministries. And today I am privileged to have for the 947th time,

00:01:45.920 A.D. Robles, a regular on the show and a personal friend of mine. A.D., thanks for coming on.

00:01:51.820 Excellent. Thank you for having me. I asked ChatGPT here how I should introduce myself on a

00:01:57.480 podcast, and it's just taken too long to think. So I'm glad to be here.

00:02:02.420 It's like John Henry beating the steam engine. You know what I mean? It's like,

00:02:05.520 it can't keep up with a true OG podcaster. You know, there's just, there's no substitute for

00:02:10.740 blood and bone and marrow. So that's why we got you on here. Otherwise, you know, in the future,

00:02:16.220 as it perfects itself, I'll just interview chat. What is it called?

00:02:20.760 Chat GPT. Yeah. I'll just start interviewing a computer, you know, but for now, but for now,

00:02:25.120 we're going to continue to use people. All right. So you flesh it out because we were talking,

00:02:30.360 you know, before we hit record, before we went live about what we're, you know, what are we

00:02:34.720 going to discuss. And you had a really great idea. So you flesh it out. Give us the framework for

00:02:38.700 this episode. Yeah, yeah, sure. I'm glad to do that. So my first idea was just talking about

00:02:45.680 how to sort of handle and navigate and argue amongst ourselves as Christians. When solid

00:02:53.760 Christians, we're believers, we love the Lord, we have differences of opinion on whatever it might

00:02:59.740 be, how to best do that, how to fight well. And then, you know, the other thing that we talked

00:03:07.500 about was about just Christian nationalism. They go together because there's a lot of fighting

00:03:13.700 going on about that. People are very nervous and concerned about Christian nationalism. And so,

00:03:19.920 yeah, let's do it. Yep. Yeah, I can completely agree. Real quick, for the outset, I think it's

00:03:25.960 helpful for our listener to know what do we mean by Christian nationalism. So I'll speak for myself

00:03:30.920 and then you give any kind of distinctions that you might have, because even our two views,

00:03:35.720 I think they're pretty aligned, but just in case they're not, I won't speak for you. I'll just

00:03:39.860 speak for me. But when I say Christian nationalism, I'm perfectly happy to say, yeah, I'm a Christian

00:03:44.540 nationalist. Like if somebody asked me, hey, what is your theology? I don't volunteer necessarily

00:03:49.820 Christian nationalists. If they say, are you a Christian nationalist? I'll say, yes, let me define

00:03:53.460 the term. So I will say yes to that. I prefer to just say I'm a post-mill theonomist. But Christian

00:03:59.900 nationalism, it'll do. So I would agree with Doug Wilson, where he says, I wanted to pick that term

00:04:04.540 out of a hat, but if somebody's going to throw it on me, there's plenty of things that they're

00:04:07.560 going to say that are pejoratives that I have to defend against. But then there's some that it's

00:04:12.060 like, well, I can actually work with that term. I can actually defend that position. So Christian

00:04:17.440 nationalism, the way I see it, Doug describes it in very similar light, but you really have

00:04:22.100 three options, and then there's two sub-options underneath each one, so six options total.

00:04:28.600 You've got localist, like tribalism, and then you've got nationalism, and then you've got

00:04:34.380 globalism. I'm not a globalist. George Soros is just too cool for me. I'm not invited to any of

00:04:39.920 the parties. I don't eat bugs. I did when I was a kid, actually, because it was a good way to get

00:04:44.760 attention, like first grade. You go on your summer camp with the church, and all the other kids are

00:04:49.940 like, oh my gosh, he ate a bug. But I haven't eaten bugs in a long time. I swore them off. When

00:04:54.620 I was a child, I acted as a child, but I've grown up and put those things behind me. So I'm not a

00:04:59.620 globalist. Because first and foremost, I'm being facetious, but biblically, I believe in the

00:05:04.340 goodness of sovereign nations, that God actually appoints borders. He's sovereignly, so it's not

00:05:09.160 just people get together and make those plans. That's a human agency, but God actually, in his

00:05:14.380 sovereign decree actually institutes the lifespans, the days, the time of nations, the Bible says,

00:05:20.240 and its borders. And we see again and again and again the sovereign rights of nations to police

00:05:26.260 their borders, defend their borders. The sojourner, you know, or the stranger that we see in the Old

00:05:31.120 Testament, we do eisegesis, we being, of course, not you and I, but like gospel coalition types, 0.86

00:05:36.980 will eisegete in their illegal immigrant. That's not actually the word in the Hebrew.

00:05:41.580 It's somebody who entered through the walls legally.

00:05:44.640 This is not a fugitive.

00:05:45.700 This is somebody who legally came into Israel, the nation, and is going to assimilate in

00:05:51.480 their cultures.

00:05:52.080 They're going to be expected to adhere to the Sabbath laws, all these things.

00:05:55.380 Even guys, merchants who want to sell to Israel, who aren't even inside on their land, who

00:06:00.480 are outside the gate, Nehemiah tells them, if you come back on the Sabbath again, I'm 0.97

00:06:05.160 going to lay hands on you and beat you guys. 0.99

00:06:07.180 You know what I mean? 0.99

00:06:07.660 So it's just, it's insane.

00:06:08.600 So anyways, all that said.

00:06:10.120 Not very winsome.

00:06:10.920 Yeah, that's right.

00:06:11.540 So the point is nations are totally biblical.

00:06:13.980 And then tribalism, there's nothing wrong with a local mindset.

00:06:16.760 You and I, you know, we live in a particular place.

00:06:19.020 We think about the nation, but we think about the world in one hand, but we're also thinking

00:06:22.360 about our city, our county, our state, even smaller than that, our neighborhoods, and

00:06:26.780 of course, our households.

00:06:28.040 So that's fine, but that doesn't function in terms of, you know, this tribe of 40 people,

00:06:34.340 you know, because there's an instability.

00:06:36.800 There's not a stable, secure, you know, there's constantly, we've seen tribalism at work in

00:06:42.400 distant past and in other places still to this day, they're always at war.

00:06:47.080 It just doesn't work.

00:06:48.280 So tribalism or localism versus nationalism versus globalism, the biblical model by far

00:06:54.500 seems to be nationalism.

00:06:56.160 So then the question is, is it going to be pagan or Christian?

00:06:58.860 Pagan tribalism or Christian tribalism?

00:07:01.100 Pagan nationalism or Christian nationalism?

00:07:03.480 pagan globalism, or Christian globalism. So we're saying nationalism seems to get 0.95

00:07:08.600 the lion's share of biblical support. So we're going with that one. And then it's a no-brainer 0.63

00:07:13.140 for the second question. Is it Christian or is it God-hating? It's Christian. It has to be

00:07:17.900 Christian. Pluralism, it's anti-Christian, right? So in that sense, I just wanted to define my terms. 1.00

00:07:25.360 When I say I'm a Christian nationalist, what I believe is the goodness, the biblical goodness

00:07:28.800 of sovereign nations and the right to police their borders and adhere to certain customs,

00:07:33.060 but with Christ Jesus being king over all of it, and they must obey his will, which we find in

00:07:39.780 the law word of God, every jot and tittle, none of it will pass away. Heaven and earth will pass

00:07:45.300 away before any jot and tittle of the law. So we have the full law of God. Certain points have

00:07:50.380 been fulfilled by Christ, like the ceremonial law. It's all been fulfilled, but fulfilled and

00:07:55.220 abrogated the ceremonial law, but the rest remains intact. And those things need to continue to this

00:08:01.360 day. And Caesar is God's deacon, God's servant, serving under Christ as the high king, and he

00:08:06.880 needs to do his bidding. That's what I think of when I say I'm a Christian nationalist. That's

00:08:11.140 what I mean. I think that that's not a theonomic position. It is, but I think that's just the

00:08:15.980 Christian position. I think anything less than that is not Christian. What do you think? 0.55

00:08:20.300 Yeah, I try to keep it very simple. You know, I think that when you break it down, you know, our nation and all nations should be self-consciously Christian. That's what they should do. That's the good thing. And so everything about the nation should be Christian. So they should have Christian laws. They should have Christian traditions. They should have Christian customs, morality, education. Everything should be Christian. 0.99

00:08:45.380 And, and we should be self-conscious about that, trying to do the best we can to be as Christian as possible in every area. And what I mean, and that necessarily means that we're not making any accommodations for any other moral perspectives, any other religious perspectives. So in other words, you know, you could be a Muslim in a Christian nation, but you're not going to get Ramadan off. We're working. And if you don't want to work on Ramadan, that's up to you, but we're working, you know, and we're taking Christmas off.

00:09:11.620 And if you don't want to take Christmas off, that's up to you, but we're taking it off.

00:09:15.060 There's no accommodation.

00:09:16.180 So in other words, so in other words, you're the exception.

00:09:18.500 If you want to live here, that's fine, but you're the exception to the rule and we're 1.00

00:09:22.620 not going to have Muslim laws. 1.00

00:09:24.540 Right.

00:09:25.020 So if you don't like that tough because that's that we're Christian self-consciously Christian

00:09:30.620 nation.

00:09:31.020 We're not going to have pluralistic laws. 0.93

00:09:32.380 We're not going to have laws that, that, um, that, uh, are accommodating LGBT perspectives

00:09:39.080 or things like that.

00:09:39.880 No, we're having Christian laws because we're a Christian nation.

00:09:41.980 That's what we should be doing.

00:09:43.440 That's all I mean.

00:09:44.640 So as a Christian, I'm trying to make the nation as Christian as humanly possible.

00:09:49.460 Right, right.

00:09:51.020 Amen.

00:09:51.900 So with that, you know, and brotherly disagreement, those kinds of things, you know, like we've

00:09:57.200 seen some debates lately and some of them have been, you know, in good faith and there's

00:10:02.620 been charity, not weakness, right?

00:10:06.540 there's been, you know, good courage and faithfulness and somebody really, you know,

00:10:11.220 sticking to their guns. We've seen some of those debates lately, but we've also seen some debates

00:10:16.140 that have not gone very well in the Twitter sphere and other places. And a lot of the ones

00:10:22.660 that have not gone very well seem to be about this topic of Christian nationalism. So when you

00:10:27.280 thought of this topic of, let's talk about how to disagree as brothers, especially from, you know,

00:10:32.600 reformed brothers? How do we disagree with one another? What did you have in mind? Where do you

00:10:37.720 want to go from here? Yeah, definitely. Well, what I actually was thinking about when I had this idea

00:10:43.780 is the debate that we saw between Jared Moore, Dr. Jared Moore. He is a doctor, I think. Whatever.

00:10:52.020 Pastor Jared Moore. That's a better title. Pastor, anyway. So Pastor Jared Moore and Pastor Doug

00:11:00.680 wilson or i guess he's reverend doug wilson um and and basically the the controversy was you know

00:11:06.000 about uh same-sex orientation homosexuality and the orientation of you know being a homosexual

00:11:14.040 you know i mean that that kind of thing and whether or not that you know that orientation

00:11:17.480 was i don't know part of original sin or something like that it was just very very very specific kind

00:11:23.580 of debate because i don't think anyone would say that doug is pro uh gay christian right like that's

00:11:30.180 not like what people would say about him but there is some difference in opinion there and so i just

00:11:34.800 i just that's why i thought about it because i saw a lot of people arguing about that where it was

00:11:39.580 very good and helpful and i think necessary um but i did see some like overheated type stuff too

00:11:47.060 where it's like oh he's just soft on this he's just a tyrant and stuff like that i saw a little

00:11:51.920 bit of both and so that's why i wanted to kind of explore it a little bit and talk about i talk

00:11:57.200 about how to do that the right way because i think it's necessary you got to have those fights

00:12:00.500 i'm glad pastor jared moore brought this up because i think that issue needs clarity if

00:12:05.360 any issue needs clarity that one does definitely and i think the the reason that it got brought up

00:12:09.720 is you know so like mutual friend of you and i john harris you know had jared moore on his show

00:12:16.520 before he hosted the debate you know for you know informal organic you know discussion slash debate

00:12:23.080 between Doug Wilson and Jared Moore. But first, John did an episode where he had Jared Moore.

00:12:27.660 They're talking about concupiscence, which to define that, it's basically sin at the level

00:12:32.140 of desire, which is clearly a biblical principle we find in the book of James, that sin ultimately

00:12:39.020 gets its start in our desire, right? Why do you sin? Is it not because of your evil desires?

00:12:44.960 You covet and do not have, so you commit murder. So these things can be tracked back

00:12:48.920 to the level of desire. That's where sin begins. And so sin is not only sin once it manifests

00:12:56.400 itself outwardly in terms of our actions or our speech, but we can sin at the level of thought,

00:13:01.940 and we can sin even at the level of desires and certain urges. And Doug Wilson had some material

00:13:08.620 on the record from the past that Jared Moore threw out there saying, you know, well, on this

00:13:13.920 concupiscence issue and guys like, you know, revoice, you know, who are saying it's cool to

00:13:19.120 cuddle, you know, with your boyfriend, as long as you don't, you know, commit sodomy, you know, 0.98

00:13:23.300 those kind of, you know, guys who are just straight up gay, those guys are gay, they should 0.99

00:13:26.880 not be in the pastorate, they really shouldn't even be granted membership in a local church, 0.98

00:13:31.140 unless they repent of that and actually reject that identity. They're still identifying as a

00:13:35.840 gay Christian, which is like being a jumbo shrimp, you know, or intelligent Joe Biden, it's an 0.90

00:13:41.060 oxymoron. That's just not, it's a misnomer. And so there's problems with all that. But for me, 0.97

00:13:47.140 it's like Jared Moore threw him out there and cited some of Doug Wilson's older work. And one

00:13:52.120 of the things that I just want to consider, because when they talked, when Jared Moore and

00:13:55.460 Doug Wilson actually talked together on John's show, Jared Moore was super respectful and he

00:14:01.040 kept pressing Doug in good ways where Doug needed to be pressed. And he did it respectfully and

00:14:07.060 those kinds of things. But initially I was just like, all right, well, wait a second. This needs

00:14:13.120 clarity. It needs to be brought up, but I think it should be done so respectfully. And one of the

00:14:17.540 things that should be considered, I'll just, I'm going to be frank. You and I are not in this

00:14:22.500 problem. John Harris is not in this problem. I don't know about Jared Moore. I don't know how

00:14:26.860 long he's been in ministry or had a public platform. But one of the reasons we're not in

00:14:30.540 this problem is because we didn't have any notoriety or any platform or really any recorded

00:14:36.080 material from 12 years ago or 10 years ago. Like, I don't, like, if there were, I had some old

00:14:43.600 sermons, you can't find them. They were probably awesome, right? Nope. They're deleted. They're

00:14:50.180 gone, you know, down the memory hole. My doing. So my point is like, when you have someone like

00:14:56.840 Doug Wilson, who's been ministering for the most part, very faithfully for 40 something years at

00:15:03.640 this point uh you're just you're gonna have some things on record where it's like you missed it

00:15:08.540 and not just you missed it sometimes there's like you didn't even completely miss it but they're like

00:15:14.400 the whole culture and even church culture was thinking in a different direction so like when

00:15:20.100 doug says like we have gay christians you know in good standing um in our you know doug even

00:15:25.860 admitted i would never say it like that again that but that wasn't that just wasn't a part of

00:15:30.260 the conversation, we were not collectively thinking about what that meant and all the

00:15:35.260 implications. And I see now why that is not a helpful phrase. I would not say it like that

00:15:39.260 again, but you're, you know, you're going back to 10 years. So anyways, what do you think?

00:15:45.460 Yeah. Well, I think here's the thing, you know, I, I, I appreciate the willingness to kind of,

00:15:54.980 because doug is really good at this like anyone who's ever had a problem with him

00:15:59.300 you know if you want to discuss something with him and go back and forth and kick some ideas

00:16:05.140 around or whatever he's willing to do it you know what i mean and i i respect that about him

00:16:09.160 um and i think that sometimes so so so here's the thing my my read on on the whole situation

00:16:14.800 is a little different and and maybe it's because i didn't really see a lot of the back and forth

00:16:19.680 right away uh but i thought jared was pretty respectful i think that you know there were

00:16:24.000 some bombastic things said um and some of that in my opinion is to grab some attention to get

00:16:29.640 some attention to it which i think is valid um but what i'm more concerned with not so much as

00:16:34.520 how like how jared um kind of brought attention to it i'm more i'm more concerned with like

00:16:40.180 as a bystander as someone who's watching this what do i then go and do what do i think like

00:16:45.380 do i do i do i do i follow this thread do i do i pursue this do i think about this do i just get

00:16:50.780 really offended and stuff like that because i i actually thought a lot of the debate that i saw

00:16:55.120 was super healthy and super respectful and i'm glad to see that the the the debate that they did

00:17:00.080 on john's show i haven't actually watched that in its entirety yet i'm glad that you you thought

00:17:04.320 that was respectful too because that's really good because it's necessary to do that right

00:17:08.880 um one thing that i i i'm glad also to hear that that that doug said he wouldn't say that again

00:17:16.420 right he wouldn't say it that way right i can understand that because there's just certain

00:17:20.260 terms that that we we can see with clarity now that are so uh slippery that we didn't see at the

00:17:28.380 time right right what i what i what i what i what i what i fear though and this is what i worry about

00:17:34.180 sometimes is where you kind of like you you i'm not saying doug did this but but this happens a

00:17:41.200 lot with evangelical debates where they have something that they said that they regret saying

00:17:46.020 but they don't actually take it back they just want to pretend it never happened i know that's

00:17:50.100 what we can't do that doesn't sharpen anything that just muddies everything you know where it's

00:17:55.000 like yeah you know like it's out there you don't you just pretend like you never said it and you

00:17:59.800 change direction that happens all the time and that's like what what i think needs to be avoided

00:18:04.420 like the play because that's it's not and and some people are like well it's you're not repenting if

00:18:08.760 you're not acknowledging it yeah i guess that's true but i'm i'm more concerned with like the

00:18:12.980 accuracy here so if you if you change your mind that's okay tell me why you know what i mean

00:18:18.400 that's i'm talking about like sharpening like respecting and and sharpening the people because

00:18:25.380 we need to understand the clarity here i'm glad doug said he wouldn't say that again i'm i don't

00:18:29.720 know if he said if he explained why but i can easily see why you wouldn't want to say it that

00:18:33.620 way again right um yeah i think yeah no you're right like the accuracy truth matters um and and

00:18:41.000 actually telling us why. I think that's really helpful. You and I have talked about that before,

00:18:45.240 but being able to say, all right, this is what I said. This is what I'm saying now. You might

00:18:49.600 notice that the two contradict one another. There's a difference here. And the reason why

00:18:54.400 I've changed on this position is because dot, dot, dot. And the reason why the why matters is because

00:19:00.360 it's not just that issue that's ultimately within the light of concern. I want to see

00:19:08.240 that you're the type of person who can think biblically and actually is able to eat crow

00:19:15.660 from time to time and exercise humility and be thoughtful and these kinds of things.

00:19:19.900 Because if I see you change on a position and you tell me why, how are you more sanctified

00:19:27.300 today than you were when you made the original remarks?

00:19:31.340 How are you more mature?

00:19:32.380 How are you more theologically astute?

00:19:34.880 How have you grown?

00:19:36.100 How have you improved?

00:19:37.120 if you can convince me of that or even at least give like some some basic reasoning for why just

00:19:43.480 acknowledge it some people don't even acknowledge that they've changed right which is like i think

00:19:48.300 of al moeller right like he's now this bastion for christian nationalism apparently and he

00:19:53.320 doesn't even acknowledge the fact that he's was totally woke yesterday right like it's like it's

00:19:58.680 like it didn't even happen it's just it's just it just magically goes away like that's what i want

00:20:03.660 to avoid and that's why i i kind of wanted to talk about this because i think that even if you

00:20:08.640 disagree with doug still which i think a lot of people do i don't think anyone can say having

00:20:14.300 that conversation on john harris's show wasn't healthy that was totally healthy and that was

00:20:18.500 great and i had some great comments on on one of my videos recently that said that they think

00:20:23.480 they've pinpointed the the actual disagreement because there's a lot of agreement but then there

00:20:28.380 is actually a substantive disagreement and he kind of pinpointed it. And, and, and I think that

00:20:33.360 that's healthy, man, when someone can look at the debate and say, I like these guys, both of them.

00:20:38.620 And now I think I figured out why they disagree. That's so helpful. You know what I mean? And

00:20:43.580 Oh, it was helpful for me because, you know, like I, I, I like Doug Wilson. And so I, you know,

00:20:48.820 naturally my, I have a presupposition. I like Doug Wilson because I like what he said on other

00:20:53.240 issues and blah, blah, blah. So I found myself just, you know, from the outset, I'm wanting to

00:20:57.460 agree with Doug I want him to be right and hearing the dialogue between the two of them was really

00:21:02.780 helpful for me because you know and I'm happy to say this publicly and part of the reason I'm happy

00:21:06.300 to say this publicly is Doug has enough humility to like if I disagree with him on something he

00:21:10.160 doesn't care you know and he'll still you know he'll still come on the show exactly he'll still

00:21:13.880 come on the show and we still have some measure of relationship which is great you know because

00:21:17.600 he's yeah he's not a you know snowflake so all that being said though like uh Jared Moore you

00:21:22.500 know you know slowly whittled him down to get to exactly what you're expressing to get to that

00:21:27.280 okay, here's actually the disagreement. And I was like, dang it, Doug's wrong.

00:21:32.780 I disagree with Doug. I agree with you. Because what it came down to is just the initial urge,

00:21:37.480 because Doug kept giving like this example. He did say exactly like this, but in principle,

00:21:41.380 this is what it was. So it was like, well, if I got a guy who has a moment of temptation

00:21:47.980 to look at gay porn, right? But he is very quickly, in 15 seconds, 0.98

00:21:56.740 he shuts that urge down um he you know he he was on the laptop but he doesn't click on anything and

00:22:03.080 he he closes his laptop and um then you know praise god um and he doesn't need to confess that

00:22:09.040 um and and jared more just kept pressing he's like well and and and the example kind of changed

00:22:14.780 to where it's like um well if there's a guy who just has one second not 15 that was crazy you

00:22:19.540 know like but one second and you know but then jared pressed again and said like but that's

00:22:24.960 that urge is the sin. That urge is the sin. And Doug's saying, well, that's the sinful nature.

00:22:33.900 And I would have a few problems with that. Number one, yes, we have a sinful nature. We believe in

00:22:39.040 that. We're totally depraved from the womb until Christ saves us. But one, we have a new nature

00:22:44.720 now. We're new creatures in Christ Jesus. Sin still resides within the members of our being.

00:22:49.860 That's Romans 7. So there's still a sense of what sin, but this is something people need to

00:22:54.060 understand. Per Romans 7, and the way that I would read Romans 7 as somebody who's thoroughly

00:22:58.760 reformed on the doctrine of total depravity and these kinds of things, Romans 7 is essentially

00:23:06.060 saying that the Christian is not totally depraved. And I think that's something reformed guys need

00:23:10.220 to get out of the... It's like, well, I'm just totally depraved. Are you saved? Because if you're

00:23:14.020 saved, you're not totally depraved. Now, what you still have is you still have the flesh. And as

00:23:19.600 long as we're in this life, we still have the flesh and there are sinful desires which reside

00:23:24.320 within the members of my being. So my flesh still has a propensity towards sin, but that's different

00:23:31.260 than the sin nature. See, the unbeliever has the flesh and the sin nature. So to use like an analogy, 1.00

00:23:37.640 if you're thinking like an egg, right, you got the egg white and you got the yolk, you know, 1.00

00:23:42.060 and let's say they're both bad, you know, like the unbeliever has the white, you know, the white, 1.00

00:23:48.200 egg whites and that's the flesh and that's bent towards sin. It has a propensity towards sinful 0.99

00:23:54.760 desires. And then they've got the yellow egg yolk and that's the sin nature. And it's also bad.

00:24:00.920 Well, the Christian still has the egg white and the fleshly sin. Sin still resides within his 1.00

00:24:06.680 flesh, but the yolk has been transferred out and in its place is some chocolate goodness center

00:24:11.960 or whatever. And that's different. But the problem is that the last thing I'm going to say is just

00:24:16.200 the problem that I think of is, yes, sin still resides within the members of my being. I don't

00:24:21.180 need to confess 24-7 for having sin within the members of my flesh. But there's something to be

00:24:27.200 said for when the urge becomes conscience. And that's what Jared put his finger on and said,

00:24:32.700 but wait a second, because you're not just talking about going through the day as you're

00:24:38.100 driving in your car to work or as you're kissing your daughters and praying over them as they go

00:24:42.580 to sleep, you're talking about a conscious, specific moment where you had thoughts, conscious

00:24:48.380 thoughts of desire. That's what you're repenting of. You're repenting of that moment of desire

00:24:55.200 towards this thing. And then the last thing you add on top of that, and on top of it all,

00:25:00.620 this is not a desire that's out of bounds in terms of degree, like I'm desiring two wives

00:25:10.900 and you know, instead of one, no, this is an unnatural design. That's what Paul says in

00:25:16.020 Romans one, even for the unbeliever, this is debased and unnatural men exchange natural 1.00

00:25:22.200 relations with women and become inflamed with lust for one another. So we're talking about not 0.98

00:25:27.300 just an urge, but a conscious urge that you feel that you're, you're mentally aware of thoughts

00:25:33.940 are involved, even if it's a second and an unnatural one at that, which is shameful, 0.98

00:25:38.980 even among Gentiles. And we're saying that that doesn't need to be confessed. And just to be 1.00

00:25:44.560 specific, I'm not saying that you need to sit in a confession booth for three hours like Luther

00:25:48.680 used to do before he got saved, but we're talking about confessed at least to the Lord, to the Lord

00:25:54.380 in prayer. That was Jared's position. I was like, oh my gosh, I can't disagree with that.

00:26:00.440 And so here's the thing, and this is why this is so healthy for us, because

00:26:04.880 you know we i'll be okay i'm just gonna be straight up keep it 100 honest with you here

00:26:11.040 so when i saw this controversy uh i kind of was like oh no infighting again that's kind of my

00:26:18.840 that was my initial reaction right and jared had already kind of requested to come on my channel

00:26:23.840 and i was happy to have him because i i'd had him we had had him on reform jellicle when that was a

00:26:28.180 thing a long time ago and um anyway so i was like almost like oh no and he's gonna be in my channel

00:26:33.780 now. Now I'm going to get in this controversy. I was almost dreading it for maybe a little more

00:26:39.020 than 15 seconds. I'll give you that. A little more than 15. But when I thought about it a second

00:26:45.100 time, I was like, that reaction where I just don't want to cause any trouble. I have that.

00:26:50.300 Believe it or not, I have that reaction all the time. We got to sometimes just swallow,

00:26:56.220 take a deep breath, take a nice, good, hard swallow, and just be like, look,

00:27:00.100 this we need to figure this one out we need to hash this out into it's not that i hate you it's

00:27:05.660 not that i hate we hate each other it's not that we're gonna all be in a you know firing squad

00:27:09.820 shooting each other and stuff like that this is the definition of ironing iron sharpening iron

00:27:15.100 and it's not necessarily a peaceful process all the time yeah i don't know if you've ever seen

00:27:20.400 somebody make a sword uh uh joel but it's violent you know what i mean there's there's hammering

00:27:26.480 there's sparks flying it's yeah there's heat and so if that's the if that's the imagery we have

00:27:33.460 for sharpening each other you know how you would like sharpen a sword or make a sword um it's okay

00:27:39.420 to let the sparks fly a little bit just so long as you're committed at the end of the day uh to

00:27:44.600 to the church and each other you know what i mean you know i i think that i'll be honest man i i've

00:27:51.300 got like a, a very, I, when I was younger, I had a very effeminate training on how to deal with

00:28:00.820 conflict and how to deal with this kind of stuff. Um, but I got it. You have to reject that kind of

00:28:07.120 stuff, especially as, as men, you know, I know you probably have female subscribers too, but mostly

00:28:11.240 probably male. Um, we've got to, we've got to reject that and recognize that, you know, at the

00:28:17.560 end of the day like guys guys guys and girls communicate differently so if you grew up with

00:28:21.700 mostly female teachers or female um you know sunday school teachers and stuff like that there's a

00:28:26.500 chance that your view on on conflict is a little skewed right um we can we can got guys i don't

00:28:33.280 know i don't know if i told you about this one joel maybe on the last episode i can't remember

00:28:36.600 but i saw this uh this this post on uh on gab or something like that where there was this guy who

00:28:42.800 had a before and after pick he was really fat before and then he was like he was fit you know

00:28:47.920 it would have been like a year you'd exercise and he said i finally decided to get control of my

00:28:53.120 weight after my friend called me a fat obese idiot every day for a year i finally decided to do it

00:29:01.340 and and the thing is like that that doesn't compute with women right but that guy knew that 0.95

00:29:07.720 friend knew that yeah he was calling him a name you know and maybe a little more colorful too

00:29:12.640 than that but he knew his friend loved him he knew his friend had his back he knew his friend

00:29:17.880 didn't hate him he knew his friend didn't want bad for him and so it you know it took a little

00:29:25.020 sparks but it got him it got him and now he's you know a normal weight and he's got a healthy way

00:29:30.520 of looking at food and everything and uh he's very grateful for his friend who called them names for

00:29:35.420 a year straight you know what i mean right guys have to do this a little differently and i think

00:29:41.400 that sometimes we because let's just face it a lot of us grew up in churches that had we had a

00:29:48.160 lot of female influence a lot right and even the males sometimes acted like females like

00:29:55.240 i think fighting is good and i think we just need to make sure that we have that commitment like my

00:30:03.080 brother is never worried when i fight with him that i'm going to say i never want to see you

00:30:08.020 again he's not worried about that because he knows i'm his brother and i've got his back and

00:30:12.680 that's how it should be you know what i mean yep so let's talk about another disagreement that did

00:30:17.680 not go that way uh that seems to be still going on at least as we're recording this um so it may

00:30:24.040 you know the scuffle could be worse by the time this episode airs or it could be just you know

00:30:29.660 long forgotten but on twitter uh twitter mutual friend of you and i uh william wolf who i think

00:30:38.760 i could be wrong but isn't isn't doesn't he work with al moeller isn't he an intern with al moeller

00:30:43.980 yeah it was wasn't he like the head intern or something i think he helped him with i think he

00:30:48.140 helped him with like research with the briefing or something like that at least while he was there

00:30:51.800 because he was going to uh southern seminary but he's graduated now and um that's like being the

00:30:56.840 head elf for Santa. Yeah. So anyway, so William Wolfe is a solid guy and I've had him on the

00:31:06.480 show before. And I know that you've interacted with him also. And he's very active on Twitter.

00:31:11.080 I can't keep up with him. I think it seems like he posts like a hundred times a day. It's insane.

00:31:15.660 Yeah. I definitely don't keep up with him too much. Yeah. It's way too much. But I have noticed

00:31:20.780 that James Lindsay, so conceptual James, he's the renowned atheist who the Lord in His common

00:31:30.680 grace used. And I don't know, I guess it started in like 2017 maybe or so that at least that he

00:31:38.080 started kind of coming out in the public sphere and really just decimating critical race theory

00:31:45.520 and wokeness. And that was a gift to the church, praise God. And he really teamed up with Michael

00:31:50.700 O'Fallon. Michael O'Fallon's a guy who kind of was using him and bringing him to certain things.

00:31:55.980 And so I've learned a lot from James Lindsay in terms of how to refute critical race theory,

00:32:03.780 how to refute the whole DEI, diversity and equity and inclusion. Really, really helpful stuff.

00:32:10.640 James Lindsay is good, I think, at identifying the problem and then just blasting it. But he

00:32:16.960 doesn't have a solution in my opinion and there's probably a decent reason for that one of the

00:32:22.360 reasons would be because james lindsey hates jesus and i think that's important for us to remember

00:32:27.180 uh romans chapter 8 says the mind of the sinful man is hostile it's not neutral neutrality is a

00:32:33.000 myth and that's precisely where james and i would disagree but neutrality is a myth in biblical

00:32:37.900 terms uh the mind of the sinful man if you're not born again if you don't haven't been saved by

00:32:42.860 grace alone, through faith alone, through Christ alone, then your mind is in a state of enmity and

00:32:47.620 hostility, not indifference, not neutrality, but enmity and hostility towards the law of God,

00:32:53.480 the things of God. You cannot submit to his law, nor will you. He doesn't submit to his law,

00:32:59.700 so it's not something you will do, and it's not something you can do. And that's ultimately,

00:33:03.920 if we're thinking biblically, that is the heart and mind of James Lindsay right now,

00:33:08.500 as far as we can tell from every outward appearance by his own admission, unless the

00:33:13.820 Lord in his grace saves him. So all that being said, James has been helpful on the problem. He's

00:33:18.520 not super helpful on the solution. William is saying, we need Christ and we need Christ as

00:33:24.580 king, not just an ethereal Jesus, best buddy. I've got my little Jesus in a box and I take

00:33:34.100 them out from time to time, to help with internal problems, ethereal problems, emotional problems,

00:33:38.680 when I'm depressed or when I'm anxious, or to pray for a loved one if they're not doing well.

00:33:43.860 No, we need Christ as political king. We need him ruling with an iron scepter. We need Caesar to

00:33:50.500 submit to Christ per Romans 13. He is God's deacon. The state is not a neutral sphere. The

00:33:57.120 civil sphere, like everything else, is either for Christ or against him. And so we need the state,

00:34:03.580 the civil sphere to be in submission to the lordship of jesus christ which of course an atheist 0.97

00:34:09.040 shocker doesn't like that position of course of course he doesn't sure you know but the crazy

00:34:15.260 thing is like how this is unfolding online so you know you're you're looking at these posts

00:34:21.040 and it's and it's just like william's saying something here and saying something there and

00:34:25.560 he's snippy he's snarky so it's not like william's not like some little church mouse like he's he's

00:34:30.900 he's ferocious and he's going after it but then james lindsey is responding like you're a little

00:34:36.080 b-i-t-c-h and that's the response like straight up and it's like okay so that's not how we that's

00:34:42.320 not how we disagree you know and and then there are christians still backing lindsey in this

00:34:47.760 yeah you know what i mean it's it's weird it's very weird it's very weird you know it's the

00:34:54.400 opposite of jared moore and and doug wilson is what i'm saying so we're giving two examples right

00:34:58.280 So, like, one's a good one, one's a bad one.

00:35:00.960 And I'm very glad that it is the opposite because here's the thing.

00:35:04.460 Like, obviously, the Bible talks about how we should strive to be at peace as much as it depends on us to be at peace with people, right?

00:35:13.340 We don't want to cause problems.

00:35:15.200 We don't want to cause, you know, fights just for the sake of it.

00:35:18.320 But the thing is, like, our mission is going to cause problems because the thing is, like, you know, people who hate Christ don't like hearing that he's the king and we have to actually act like it and we have to order our lives according to it and all of this kind of stuff.

00:35:37.000 And they really don't like hearing that. And so there is really no peace between us so long as we're on this mission. Right.

00:35:47.340 You know, we can, we can be friendly with guys like James Lindsay, you know, honestly, he always seemed like the kind of guy that I could grab a beer with, you know, and, and hang out and, and, and chat with him. That's what he seems like. I mean, I don't know if he's like that, but, but that's what he seems like.

00:36:00.960 Um, but at the end of the day, we're just coming at, at this from completely different planets, you know what I mean? Very different planets. And so, um, any, any agreement we have on, on anything, you know, is it's, it's really kind of just agreement on the surface more than anything.

00:36:21.500 and so of course you know it's not surprising to see responses of like like that like where

00:36:30.220 he's just kind of cursing and you know you know making jokes and stuff like that that's not

00:36:34.600 surprising um i they're really it shouldn't look the same as jared versus doug wilson right because

00:36:42.460 it's a total there's just coming at it from completely different perspective we have a

00:36:47.160 different standard that's a completely different standard we have a different standard for

00:36:51.340 everything that we do including how we disagree like there are christian standards for every

00:36:56.860 everything in all of human life including uh disagreeing with somebody else and james lindsey

00:37:02.760 doesn't have that standard in his position he wants to you know to defend with every bone in

00:37:07.160 his body to his dying breath um yeah no standards that's his but that's that's what he wants to give

00:37:12.280 his life for is that um that you know like that freedom of speech means absolute freedom of speech

00:37:18.620 you can say anything yeah always when the reality is it's not you know rush dooney is so helpful

00:37:24.640 just that whole you know catchphrase of it's not whether but which there's always going to be a

00:37:29.160 reigning orthodoxy there's always there's always going to be a theocracy see that's the crazy thing

00:37:33.680 is like oh well we don't want a theocracy um what do you think the branch covidians for the last

00:37:39.140 three years have been all about you think that's not a deity that's not a religion of course it's

00:37:44.040 a religion it's certainly not science right it's the science tm right which is which is a religion

00:37:49.900 there's nothing scientific about it you know take the booster do this like and with without backing

00:37:55.060 anything up and if you disagree what what happens to you well you get freedom of speech no you don't

00:38:00.560 you get shadow banned you get blackmailed you lose your job you get kicked off of this you know all

00:38:07.440 these different things. So the point is, there's never a perfect freedom of speech. And I think

00:38:13.600 what we have to realize is, again, it's not whether but which, there's always a reigning

00:38:18.200 orthodoxy. By way of consequence, whatever the orthodoxy is, things that are outside of that,

00:38:23.960 especially things way outside of that, are going to be labeled as blasphemy. And there's always

00:38:28.580 going to be some penalty, whether it's a cultural, like society penalizes you by just,

00:38:34.520 we're not going to interact with you anymore. You don't get invited to our gatherings anymore.

00:38:39.120 You're losing friends over it, or whether it's a civil penalty. So whether it's a social penalty,

00:38:43.220 more organic or a formal civil penalty, there's always an orthodoxy. There's always blasphemy.

00:38:48.840 There's always a standard. It's not whether, but which. And there's always a God. That standard

00:38:54.460 flows from the God. There's always a theocracy, this idea that we don't need theocracy. Let's

00:38:59.560 just do this classical you know liberalism let's just do this but no there's always a god there's

00:39:05.280 always a god and and if if there is no god truly then government is the god government is the

00:39:12.540 theocracy in and of itself it becomes the deity and so to me it's inescapable but guys guys still

00:39:20.620 keep pushing back and not not so charitably this is the thing like like james lindsey just to stay

00:39:26.880 on him for a second. Like you, you, you had to see this coming, right? So you, what you said

00:39:32.840 was perfect. You know, he's really good at identifying problems, right? Yes. He might not

00:39:37.240 know exactly why it's a problem, but, but at the end of the day, he does have some moral compass

00:39:42.660 because God created him to have one, right? So, so he has it because God put it there and, um,

00:39:48.420 he's inconsistent with it and he's not going to be, you know, he's not going to, he's not going

00:39:52.740 to serve you know god he's going to do whatever he wants but but he does have some stuff so he can

00:39:57.400 he can know the difference between right and wrong we all understand that so he's good at that

00:40:02.440 but we all i thought to be honest joel i thought we all kind of knew that like there'd be a limit

00:40:09.000 to being able to you know use joel's or i'm not not joel's uh james's stuff right exactly but but

00:40:16.160 But but but the more time passed, the more I didn't see any limits.

00:40:21.320 Like I saw him, you know, talking about what pastors ought to do.

00:40:25.020 And I'm like, what are you talking about?

00:40:27.560 Right.

00:40:27.940 We're not in we're not on the same team.

00:40:30.400 Pastors shouldn't do anything because you think they should do it.

00:40:33.360 Like, what are you even talking about?

00:40:34.540 And then he starts talking about theology and how, you know, some people are not orthodox.

00:40:38.860 And I'm just like, there's no there's no breaks on this train, is there?

00:40:42.300 And maybe maybe we were naive, right?

00:40:44.840 Like we shouldn't have even maybe, you know, let him in the, the circles in the first place.

00:40:49.560 But, but the point is like, like you can be friends with him.

00:40:52.540 You can use his stuff.

00:40:53.580 You can use his material, but, but make sure you're just using it and not leaning on it.

00:40:57.800 Right.

00:40:58.160 Because he's got nothing for you as far as a replacement for this.

00:41:02.160 He's got no way to beat this.

00:41:04.200 I saw he, he kind of laughed at something I said about his little tantrum he's had the

00:41:08.620 last few days.

00:41:09.180 And it is a tantrum.

00:41:10.100 He's having a little tantrum.

00:41:11.260 and and he he said that his only goal is that when guys like me fall off the cliff that he

00:41:18.860 maintains the movement and i didn't respond to that but like what movement i'm not nobody's

00:41:24.700 we shouldn't be in your movement i don't know what your movement is i don't know how you even have

00:41:29.160 an atheistic movement i don't even know what that's supposed to even mean but like i want no

00:41:34.220 part of it and no christian should movement you're holding together a movement this is the thing like

00:41:39.420 Like Andrew Torber gets a lot of grief, but he said a lot of right things.

00:41:44.620 And one of the right things he said is, unfortunately, and I say fortunately, 0.97

00:41:48.340 but if you're not a Christian, you cannot be a leader in this. 0.98

00:41:52.260 You just can't.

00:41:53.440 You're not on the same page. 1.00

00:41:55.280 We can work together to stop transsexual story hour, but that's about the limit. 1.00

00:42:00.860 We can't really, beyond that, I'm glad you know that transsexual story hour is bad, 1.00

00:42:05.480 but beyond that, we really don't have much to do with each other. 1.00

00:42:09.420 Right.

00:42:10.300 You know what I mean?

00:42:10.980 Yep, that's absolutely right.

00:42:12.340 James Lindsay is Deborah, I think is the way that I would say it, right?

00:42:15.320 So Deborah, right?

00:42:17.640 Those are fighting words, man.

00:42:18.780 Call them a girl. 1.00

00:42:19.720 Every feminist, you know, heretical theologian and egalitarian. 0.95

00:42:24.900 They love Deborah. 1.00

00:42:25.700 Right, they love Deborah.

00:42:26.900 So Deborah, you know, for the listener, if you're not familiar, she was one of the judges when there wasn't a king, right?

00:42:32.540 So things are chaotic.

00:42:33.560 during chaotic times. Sometimes everybody's doing what they see as right in their own eyes. There's

00:42:40.200 no king in Israel. Every man does what is right in his own eyes. Things are chaotic, and a lot of

00:42:45.560 the men are being cowardly, especially those men who are in positions of authority, who are allowing

00:42:50.320 for the chaos to happen, who aren't actually leading, who aren't standing up and defeating 0.86

00:42:54.440 the enemies and all these kind of stuff. And I think it's Barak, I think is his name, but Barak

00:42:58.680 was the general at the time and he asked Debra to go with him into battle a woman right he's like

00:43:05.440 hey will you I mean you know it's just even in 2023 I feel like that would be embarrassing you

00:43:10.620 know like if if there's like some kind of battle and you know and I'm going and asking my wife hey

00:43:15.320 would you come with me you know like we need to go and fight this these there's two guys over there

00:43:21.100 and we need to fight them and would you would you come with me because I could really use your help

00:43:25.040 I'm nervous to go by myself, right?

00:43:27.020 That's just, I mean, that's embarrassing.

00:43:29.120 It's shameful.

00:43:29.760 And Deborah says as much. 1.00

00:43:31.440 She says, I'll go, but just know that the glory, you know, the glory will go to a woman, right?

00:43:39.000 And, you know, and what she's saying is like, I'll go with you. 0.97

00:43:43.460 You really shouldn't be asking me to go.

00:43:45.900 This is not, this is kind of shameful.

00:43:48.020 And so my point is this, James Lindsay is Deborah.

00:43:50.920 And what I mean is James, it's like, well, how did we get a James Lindsay?

00:43:54.400 Where did he come from?

00:43:55.120 I'll tell you where he came from.

00:43:56.320 He came because all the barracks, Al Mohler, Russell Moore, Tim Keller, right?

00:44:03.180 The list goes on up.

00:44:03.980 Mark Dever, right?

00:44:05.740 David Platt, all the barracks, Matt Chandler, wouldn't do anything.

00:44:13.040 They just, they wouldn't do anything.

00:44:14.980 And so here comes Debra, right? 0.75

00:44:17.680 And so my point is, okay, so Debra comes in and wins the day and actually defeats, you

00:44:23.520 know? 1.00

00:44:23.620 because here's the deal. Yeah, there's plenty of wokeness going on, but it's changed. We need to

00:44:28.080 be honest, right? Because some of us on the conservative side, we need to be honest about

00:44:31.060 this because we're building our platforms and our ministries off of wokeness. And I don't want to be

00:44:35.580 that guy. I don't want to be secretly rooting for my enemy to stay in power so that I have

00:44:43.240 something to whine about so that people watch me on YouTube. I want wokeness to die. And if that 1.00

00:44:48.720 eradicates like we don't really need joel anymore and what like fine praise god praise god um and i

00:44:55.120 think if we're if we're going to be honest i think wokeness is on its last leg i think it's on its

00:44:59.460 way out and i feel like something has shifted from 2020 with the summer of love and mostly

00:45:04.900 peaceful riots and the whole country was on fire and george floyd st george and and now

00:45:09.320 in the beginning of 2023 it's different plenty of woke guys still out there i get it but it's

00:45:14.660 different. You can say things now. The Overton window has shifted. It has officially shifted.

00:45:20.520 You can say things now. I am saying things now, and I don't get near as much flack as I would

00:45:25.980 have just three years ago, two and a half years ago. And so my point is, praise God for Deborah.

00:45:32.040 Praise God for James Lindsay. He's a big part of that. And the Bible says, give honor to where

00:45:37.040 honor is due. And that's not just for Christians. If an unbeliever does something that's honorable,

00:45:41.380 praise God. So I want to give him honor for that. And I want to honor Michael O'Fallon for bringing

00:45:46.720 him to the table. Michael O'Fallon, I'm sure even if Michael O'Fallon was on this podcast, he would

00:45:51.520 say, yeah, he wasn't the first guy I was looking for, but I'm looking at all my SBC guys that I

00:45:56.460 trusted over the years and none of them are anywhere to be found. So yeah, so then I have to

00:46:00.600 get, so James Lindsay is God's indictment of big Eva. That's what he is. James Lindsay is God's

00:46:07.240 indictment of big eva but here's the problem though um god's judgments are are um well you

00:46:14.420 just when god sends a judgment it's it squelches evil but it also it also shames the cowardly

00:46:21.360 righteous who were standing on the sidelines and now we're into the shame uh right so god uses the

00:46:26.760 hammer of james lindsey the deborah you know the the indictment against big even their cowardice

00:46:31.820 and all these kinds of things. And he crushed up wokeness. But now we, as Christians, we have to

00:46:37.560 deal with James Lindsay because he's been let in the door and given prominent spotlight because

00:46:41.920 all these other guys who, the barracks who should have been fighting, weren't fighting.

00:46:45.980 And now we're trying to say, well, okay, but here's the deal. Our goal was not to get back

00:46:51.340 to the 1990s. Like our goal is a little bit bigger than that. And we're not even trying

00:46:57.060 to get back to 1776 we're not trying to get to a principled uh principled pluralism we're not

00:47:04.100 trying to because pluralism just for the record our listeners need to know this pluralism is just

00:47:08.800 a euphemism for poly polytheism we're not polytheist we're not polytheist we are christians

00:47:16.240 we believe in one god one god over heaven and earth his will be done on earth as it is in heaven

00:47:22.960 That's what, and James Lindsay is not going to take us there.

00:47:26.640 And the only reason James Lindsay was helpful at all is because we got so far off the rails.

00:47:32.200 And I'm talking about the church judgment. 0.89

00:47:34.460 When God sends judgment, it starts with the church. 0.63

00:47:36.040 The church got so far off the rails that an atheist who spent his early life trying to 1.00

00:47:41.280 take out Christianity, the new atheist, I mean, hating Christ, an atheist was an improvement 0.90

00:47:47.620 from, say it like that, a guy from the New Atheist Movement trying to take out the church 0.90

00:47:54.920 as his life's mission. We got in such a bad position as the evangelical church. That guy

00:48:01.100 was an improvement on the Southern Baptist Convention. You know what I mean? If I can

00:48:06.200 put it that way. But now, by God's grace, as the Overton window is shifting, as guys are starting

00:48:10.680 to have courage, as we're starting to make some headway, James Lindsay is saying, I'm sorry,

00:48:16.240 guys we're done this is as far as we're going and we're saying wait a second we're going further

00:48:20.820 than that right fight fighting fighting with james lindsey is completely different than fighting with

00:48:26.820 doug wilson completely different than fighting with um with uh with jared moore because you know

00:48:33.060 the bible talks about you know sharpening each other and all that kind of stuff and you know as

00:48:37.500 as brothers you know we need to you know we need to you know if somebody's in sin if somebody's

00:48:42.060 doing something in error. We need to confront them. Maybe you'll win your brother, that kind

00:48:46.540 of thing. We've got so many verses we could draw from about how to deal with each other, right?

00:48:51.080 We're supposed to love one another, especially the church, within the church, loving one another,

00:48:55.320 right? That's how people know we're the church. But fighting with James Lindsay is totally

00:48:59.800 different because one of the things that James is very upset about, and I understand from his

00:49:06.760 perspective is that you know steven wolf in his book said that you know atheism will be stomped

00:49:12.320 out in in a christian nation crushed yep and and that is not controversial in the slightest right

00:49:18.540 atheism will be crushed yes of course every any anything any any group or organization doesn't 0.92

00:49:25.140 mean we're going to hunt down atheists and just kill them for no reason like that's not what we're 0.85

00:49:28.820 talking about but they will have no influence none that's right in a christian nations our 1.00

00:49:33.640 traditions or laws or customs and all that kind of stuff right our education no they will have no

00:49:38.480 influence that's the goal and the thing is so when you're fighting so he doesn't like that he's very 0.97

00:49:43.060 upset about that but the problem is he's a fool and so the bible tells us how to deal with him 0.67

00:49:48.080 you don't answer him uh lest lest he you be just like him so you don't act like he acts when he 0.96

00:49:53.920 calls you a little you know whatever you can bleep that out sorry um you don't respond in kind you

00:49:59.800 know what i mean you don't make fun of him in that way you don't you know rip him in that way

00:50:03.960 you could zing him obviously i'm not saying you can't zing him but you know but you don't answer 0.97

00:50:09.000 a fool you know according to his folly lest you be just like him but you do answer a fool according 0.93

00:50:13.100 to his folly lest he be wise in his own eyes he needs to be put in his place is bottom line 1.00

00:50:17.300 he's not as smart as he thinks he is he's not as clever as he thinks he is in fact he is a fool 0.99

00:50:23.960 I cannot think of a less respectable position to hold than atheism is the least respectable position you can have. 1.00

00:50:33.480 It makes much more sense to be a Muslim. 0.97

00:50:35.580 It makes much more sense to be even a what is the one from Utah? 0.66

00:50:41.760 Mormon. 0.83

00:50:42.220 Oh, Mormon. 0.74

00:50:42.820 Yeah, Mormon. 0.84

00:50:43.900 It makes more sense to be a Mormon. 0.98

00:50:45.680 It makes no sense to be a Mormon. 0.95

00:50:47.220 It makes no sense to be a Muslim, but it makes more than atheism is is the bottom rung. 0.66

00:50:51.700 you if you if you have a creator who's made himself known in everything he's created everything 0.99

00:50:58.900 and you and you decide you know i'm not i'm gonna reject that that's this foolish as you

00:51:06.560 could possibly be right right and just real quick for the record for the listeners ad is using the 0.99

00:51:10.580 word fool in the proper biblical sense again and again again the bible says the fool says in his 0.97

00:51:14.600 heart there is no god sure the fool says so the guy who says there is no god in biblical terms 0.99

00:51:19.820 fool is the exact word that has to be used. R.C. Sproul used to say, we celebrate fools once a 0.99

00:51:25.440 year on April 1st, right? And April Fool's Day. And so he said, April 1st, it should be called 0.96

00:51:32.720 National Atheist Day, right? And so April 1st, we can get James Lindsay a birthday card and send it

00:51:38.080 to him in the mail or whatever, because that is the fool according to scripture. The fool says 0.99

00:51:42.880 in his heart, there is no God, and we don't need fools leading the way. And if fools led us and 1.00

00:51:49.580 helped us to destroy a bigger fool, right? That's what it was. It was a smaller fool destroying a 1.00

00:51:54.880 bigger fool. All that means is like, well, thank you. We can be thankful for that. But we don't 1.00

00:52:01.160 then go and make him king, right? So if Deborah goes with Barak, it's to the shame, it's not to

00:52:07.880 glorify Deborah. It's an indictment to the shame of Barak. And when they come back and win the

00:52:14.220 battle, what you don't do is you don't then make Deborah queen. You don't crown her and say,

00:52:19.840 and now we're going to have a gynocracy. Now we're going to be led by having this woman win 1.00

00:52:26.720 one battle worked so well that now we're going to be underneath female leadership, 1.00

00:52:32.040 a female dictatorship for now on, for the rest of Israel's future. That's not what you do. What you 1.00

00:52:37.820 do is you say, thank you, Deborah. And then you say, shame on you, Barak, and may this never have

00:52:42.100 to be needed again. That's what you do. And the thing is like, and we don't have to pretend like, 0.60

00:52:48.720 like, you know, listen, do I want James Lindsay to be, you know, at Tom Askell's church one day

00:52:57.400 and hear the gospel and for God to change his heart and for him to accept the gospel? Absolutely.

00:53:02.780 Right. I absolutely do. And if James was just going to go quietly into the night and, you know,

00:53:09.120 you know i just take my hat off to him and i would i would never speak his name again

00:53:13.080 i don't know him like that right but i'm sure people around him do and and they you know they're

00:53:17.560 they're ministering to him and they're they're preaching the gospel to him and all that kind of

00:53:21.220 stuff i'm sure they're doing the right stuff i'm sure michael fallon is doing the right stuff that

00:53:24.720 he ought to be doing as a christian but the reality is he's not going quietly into the night

00:53:30.460 the reality is that he's decided to take up arms he's decided to fight and when the fight comes to

00:53:37.180 you as a christian i mean you meet him you meet him there that that's your mission you know what

00:53:42.320 i mean and so um he needs to be put in his place he needs to be defeated um his arguments i've read

00:53:48.880 through some of them and it's just like i remember this because i used to you know argue with atheists

00:53:54.260 in in in public and online i used to i used to go to colleges and and argue with you know punk

00:53:59.320 atheist kids you know they thought that were they were the smartest things ever i remember this this

00:54:04.720 is the old village atheist stuff right i get it you know what i mean and it's like it was always

00:54:10.220 there it was just kind of put off to the side when he was focused on this woke stuff but the

00:54:15.100 reality is he's a village atheist and he's to be dealt with and i i i you know listen i know he's

00:54:22.240 got people christian solid christian people around him and i and i pray that they're reaching out to

00:54:26.280 him because um what he's doing now is just it's embarrassing is really what it is yeah yeah and

00:54:34.260 And I think part of the problem, though, is that, I want to be careful with how I say this, but part of the problem is that if every Christian went to James Lindsay and said, friend, because you're not a brother, but friend, you're under the just condemnation of God.

00:54:54.280 You need to repent of your sins. 0.61

00:54:56.060 And what you're saying now, you've helped us this far, but you're not helping us anymore.

00:54:59.920 What you want to bring us back to culturally, politically, philosophically is exactly what

00:55:06.420 got us here in the first place.

00:55:08.120 That leads to this.

00:55:09.960 And we're not interested in just winding back.

00:55:12.500 We're not just interested in somebody who can take us from stage four cancer back to

00:55:17.900 stage two.

00:55:19.000 We want someone who can cure cancer. 0.98

00:55:21.640 But the problem is not every Christian is saying that.

00:55:25.320 like christians we're divided because we don't want the same thing you and i ad see you and i

00:55:32.820 we want christ as king over not just our nation but every nation in the world we want the nation

00:55:38.880 the nations are his heritage we want the nations to flock to him to to to we we want we want the

00:55:47.000 whole earth to be covered with the glory of god with the knowledge of god as the seas as the water

00:55:53.340 to cover the seas. We want his rule. We want his reign, and we want to see his will done on earth

00:55:59.880 as it is in heaven. But it's not just that we have a disagreement on that point with James.

00:56:05.860 We have a disagreement on that point with the majority of evangelical Christians.

00:56:11.720 Yeah. The truth is that there's a lot of Christians that are public atheists. In other

00:56:16.880 words, in their public life, there's literally no difference between them and the classically

00:56:22.720 liberal atheist and the classically liberal muslim and the classically liberal whatever

00:56:26.040 mormon um there's literally no difference in their public life and that's a big problem

00:56:30.900 that's a huge problem and um one of the many reasons why this thing has to be hashed out 0.64

00:56:38.160 you know aggressively yep yep absolutely all right well so doug wilson jared moore good good

00:56:46.000 way to disagree that said i found myself on jared moore's side which was a bummer because i love

00:56:53.420 doug i mean doug wilson has been so faithful done so many great things and this is this is the thing

00:56:58.660 but i did disagree with him i find myself in a great spot because i um i i've i've disagreed

00:57:06.040 with doug i think twice and this is one of them and the other one was something to do with covid

00:57:11.080 lockdowns and i gotta say i've come out on top both times so oh wow look at you so the see that's

00:57:18.520 the beauty is um if if you want to be when i pick all the battles exactly i win 100 of the time

00:57:24.240 exactly if you want to be doug wilson superior what you do is like right because there's a

00:57:28.120 trillion theological positions and implications so what you do is you haven't thought of half of

00:57:32.780 those you just read what he thought about it and say yeah that's pretty good that's my position

00:57:36.880 thanks for doing all the legwork and then on the two positions and then on the two positions that

00:57:41.460 he actually is wrong on is probably only two on those you say look at me so i'm just as good as

00:57:46.860 doug wilson plus two you know plus two yeah so maybe it's three i don't even remember but yeah

00:57:52.560 that's that's how you do it that's how you do it that's how you write about everything that's

00:57:56.340 exactly you just only just ride ride his coattails on every issue for the last 40 years except for

00:58:02.720 too that's that's where you take the opportunity to distinguish yourself there's doug wilson's of

00:58:06.980 the world we're grateful for those guys but then there's me anyway so but that that was a good that

00:58:12.260 was a good way to disagree doug was wrong and we're not saying it's a good way to disagree

00:58:16.700 because because in the end of that disagreement they came to the same conclusion that's not what

00:58:20.960 we're saying we're saying what the whole point of this episode is to say it's not that jared

00:58:25.280 moore and doug wilson disagreed well because they eventually came to the same conclusion

00:58:29.900 No, the episode left off with, you know, when they got on there with John, they still disagreed.

00:58:35.280 But it was good because number one, we got to substantive arguments to where someone like you or I, right, the third party watching could actually learn something.

00:58:44.440 It was actually helpful and useful and helped me figure out what I thought about that particular issue.

00:58:50.520 And it was charitable.

00:58:51.900 It was loving.

00:58:52.680 Nobody was saying that Doug's a heretic, right?

00:58:54.800 A ton of people say that, but they weren't the guys in that conversation.

00:58:58.620 Exactly.

00:58:58.900 Exactly. So I, you know, and Doug wasn't calling them heretics. That was good. And then the James

00:59:03.960 Lindsay and William Wolfe and other guys who've jumped in the ring, right? Everybody's, you know,

00:59:08.100 seems to get in a tiff every now and then with James Lindsay. And, you know, I, you know, me and

00:59:12.200 I had Stephen Wolfe on my show, not William Wolfe, but Stephen Wolfe who wrote, you know,

00:59:16.260 the case for Christian nationalism. And I remember James Lindsay, as soon as he got out of Twitter

00:59:20.340 jail, you know, he had, he had had like a, well, he just posted it, you know, he like shared the

00:59:25.800 link of, of me and Stephen Wolf, uh, interviewing him on his book, you know, about Christian

00:59:30.040 nationalism. And he said, uh, these are the, the fed ops, you know, who, who, you know, whatever,

00:59:34.840 like this is a, this is a, a psyop or whatever. I don't know what he, but he was literally like

00:59:39.740 saying, this can't be real. It's unreal. It's like, I'm telling you, it's just so amazing.

00:59:45.820 I don't know, Joel, if you spent any time arguing with atheists. I, like I said, I went to college

00:59:49.700 campuses. I even went to that atheist, uh, rally in DC. They held, uh, the reason rally. I went

00:59:55.320 there um and i remember i just remember listening to some of the speeches and talking to people 1.00

01:00:01.160 it's just like these people think they're so smart and they're idiots they're really actually 0.98

01:00:06.680 pretty dumb a lot of them and and and then you see like james he's he's obviously intelligent 1.00

01:00:11.680 he's a good communicator and and and and this thing has turned him into it's a psyop everything 0.99

01:00:17.960 he's gone he's look he sounds crazy yeah like and and the thing is like i'm sure there's agents

01:00:25.220 involved in various things i i still believe that that whole situation with um with um

01:00:32.300 what's his face it's not even worth mentioning but that whole controversy with uh steven wolf's

01:00:37.200 friend and all that i think that there was i think there's something going on there um i can't prove

01:00:42.480 so i can't really give you why i think that but but but i'm sure there are some like ops going

01:00:47.940 on i mean why wouldn't there be these guys are sick but like he just sounds crazy now you know

01:00:54.440 he sounds like a village atheist this is the old school stuff that i remember back in the day them

01:00:59.220 talking about right you ever read is give a read joel the uh the handbook for creating atheists

01:01:04.160 one of his one of his friends wrote that that uh professor uh peter bogosian yeah i know who that

01:01:10.000 is yeah but i that's one him and james are pretty close i think he wrote this book called a manual

01:01:16.080 for creating atheists it's basically he envisioned i i kid you not this is this is where these guys

01:01:21.520 are at he envisioned creating you know how like we have a lot of street preachers joel and you go

01:01:26.860 out you preach the gospel you do you know apologetics a lot of times in those conversations

01:01:30.940 come up um he was going to create what he called street epistemologists to go out and convert people

01:01:38.760 into atheism uh you know and he they were street they weren't street preachers they were street 0.95

01:01:44.600 epistemologists he wrote a whole book about it and it's like you're crazy dude you're actually 0.95

01:01:52.160 a nut that's what you are yeah well he just well it's it's exactly what jesus says you're either 0.93

01:01:56.960 for me or against me there is no neutrality and i think that's what's important to remember is

01:02:00.780 that at the end of the day the person who's not with christ is somebody who um they don't want

01:02:06.160 just a neutral playing field where everybody can, you know, go along to get along. No, they want to

01:02:11.940 convert people to atheism. They want to spread the joy of hatred of God, right? That, you know,

01:02:18.800 that's what they want. And they promise you freedom. You'll be a free thinker, you know,

01:02:22.720 and things like that. It's pretty evil. You know, I'm joking about it because it just sounds so

01:02:26.980 stupid, you know, street epistemologist, but it's pretty evil. And I'm not saying, by the way, 0.99

01:02:31.320 I'm not saying Lindsay was associated with that. I don't know that he was or not. I'm just saying

01:02:34.760 like this is the level like these are like the big thinkers in atheism this this is what we're

01:02:39.180 dealing with right so it's like yeah which is an army of street epistemologists i'm sure that's

01:02:44.900 going to get off the ground do you remember when they try to do the the church thing they were

01:02:47.840 going to do the sunday meetings do you remember that joel no they had a whole movement it's called

01:02:52.040 the sunday meeting and it was going to be just like church but not church they were going to

01:02:55.460 have a motivational speech uh with a an intellectual person they were going to sing

01:03:00.280 songs atheist songs unto the atheist god i don't know maybe maybe like rock song i don't know what

01:03:06.020 they were going to do but they they envision this whole thing where we're going to have

01:03:09.200 sunday meetings for atheists you wonder how long that lasts probably probably probably two weeks 1.00

01:03:15.880 because it's stupid and everybody knows it's stupid yeah i don't know maybe maybe it's still 1.00

01:03:20.500 going on i don't know if it's really that's it's dumb it's funny you said the epista you know the 1.00

01:03:25.220 epistemologists, you know, like versus a street evangelist, how you said, like how it's evil. 0.61

01:03:31.340 And, and just, just to clarify, if somebody is saying, well, you're saying that's evil,

01:03:35.100 but you know, the atheist thinks that you doing evangelism is evil. This is why objectively they're

01:03:39.140 not equivalent. They're not equivalent because from the atheist giving, you know, and I'm not

01:03:44.340 going to straw man it. I want to steal man the opposing position. The best that they could think

01:03:50.420 is that religion is oppressive, right? That religion is like a shackle. So people who

01:03:56.840 believe in the triune God, these are oppressed people, these are shackled people, and they're

01:04:02.300 not as happy as they could be if they were liberated from religion. But by James Lindsay's

01:04:08.320 own position, by his own admission, Christians are fairly happy people in America. And the history of

01:04:16.740 America being predominantly Christian, and Christian people in the 1950s, these are people

01:04:22.320 who are reasonably happy. So you're really, what you're talking about is with your street

01:04:26.740 epistemologist is taking people who are reasonably happy, but maybe making them a little bit happier

01:04:31.620 because now maybe their conscience isn't beating them up quite as much. For the Christian evangelist,

01:04:37.580 that's the street epistemologist, the atheist, for the street evangelist, you're talking about 0.88

01:04:42.560 saving people from going to hell for eternity. So we're going to have this team of epistemologists

01:04:49.380 to save people from being kind of happy so that they can be really happy for the next 50 years,

01:04:55.740 and then they're dust, and that's it. And then the other position is, no, our motivation is we're

01:05:01.160 doing this first and foremost in obedience to God, and then secondarily out of love for neighbor

01:05:04.620 because we're talking about the eternal state of somebody not being reasonably happy for 50 years

01:05:09.040 versus really happy for the next 50 years, but somebody for eons and eons and eons and eons

01:05:14.120 into eternity under the just wrath of God, miserable, wishing that they could die, but not

01:05:19.380 able to versus eternal bliss in the presence of the triune God forever. That's the difference.

01:05:25.000 So the point is, yeah, the atheists could say of the Christian evangelists and say,

01:05:30.920 I disagree with what you're doing, but you can't call it evil. You could call us insane. You could

01:05:35.540 call us confused, you could call us wrong, but you can't call it evil. Not morally evil, ill-willed

01:05:41.500 towards, but for the epistemologists, what you have to say for the street epistemologists on

01:05:46.260 the atheist side, trying to convert an atheist evangelist, that really is evil in the sense that

01:05:53.480 you're going out and yelling at people and arguing with people and confusing people and all these

01:06:01.900 things for a difference that is nothing, and at best, to steel man the opponent, it's negligible

01:06:09.280 and temporary. I regret to inform you that the Sunday Assemblies thing is still going on.

01:06:15.320 There's not very many of them, but they still happen. Well, let's get back to me in 2,000

01:06:21.140 years. Let's see if they can hit our record. That's right. That's right. Oh, man. The closest

01:06:25.780 one to you is in Nashville, Sunday Assembly Nashville. I'm surprised there's not one in

01:06:29.980 Austin, honestly, I'm surprised. 0.92

01:06:31.860 Yeah, there's so few of them, so, but yeah, so I, you know, it looks really dumb, so at 0.99

01:06:38.820 least it's still dumb. 0.99

01:06:40.380 Yeah, well, there you go. 0.94

01:06:41.760 All right, well, anyway, so that's, you know, how do we disagree with people?

01:06:45.520 We need to do it charitably, but charitably doesn't mean that we can't, you know, like 0.95

01:06:50.240 we're using words like dumb, we're using words like foolish, because these are biblical words. 1.00

01:06:53.560 The Bible talks about being dumb, it talks about being foolish, it talks about stupid. 1.00

01:06:58.060 The word stupid is used in the Bible, not just fool, right? 1.00

01:07:02.520 I've used stupid before and people say like, well, I wish he would have said foolish, you 1.00

01:07:06.240 know, because stupid is harsh and that's not a biblical word. 1.00

01:07:08.480 Foolish is, nope, stupid is a biblical word too. 1.00

01:07:10.740 That's in the Bible multiple times again and again and again. 1.00

01:07:13.140 So we want to be charitable.

01:07:14.460 We want to be respectful, but we also want to be biblical and we want to be courageous

01:07:17.480 and we want it to hurt. 0.99

01:07:19.180 We want it to hurt a little bit so that the fool becomes aware of their folly. 0.98

01:07:24.280 But all of this ultimately is done in a way that is seeking the highest and ultimate good of the person that we're disagreeing with. 0.97

01:07:33.880 It's done in love.

01:07:35.460 It may be sparks flying, iron sharpening iron, but it's done in love.

01:07:39.600 And it's done with clarity, with substance, with argument, so that people actually, the bystanders watching are better having watched.

01:07:48.420 They're actually learning something.

01:07:50.120 And I think Jared Moore and Douglas Wilson did that.

01:07:52.580 I think that the skirmishes with James Lindsay and William Wolfe and guys like that have not done that, and it shouldn't be a surprise because in one debate you have two Christians, in another you have Christians versus someone who in their inmost being hates the Lord Jesus Christ, and we should remember that.

01:08:08.500 Yeah, ultimately, you know, obviously we're not trying to destroy, you know, Doug Wilson or Jared Moore, obviously we know that, they're our brothers, we're trying to help them.

01:08:18.180 And honestly, it's the same with James. We don't want to destroy him and we do want to destroy his arguments, but we don't want to destroy him. But James does need to be uncomfortable with his foolishness. He needs to be made to feel uncomfortable with his denial of Christ.

01:08:36.880 And, um, and whatever that takes, we, we, we don't want to hurt him, but sometimes it

01:08:42.680 does take your, your, your, your pride to be hurt a little bit, um, to, to recognize

01:08:47.860 your need, you know, people need to sometimes be brought to the precipice before the, the

01:08:53.480 solution, the antidote, the, the, the, the way is, is apparent to them.

01:08:58.580 You know what I mean?

01:08:58.880 I know that worked for me.

01:08:59.980 I mean, I needed to be brought to like the, to the lowest I've ever been, you know, in

01:09:05.140 order for me to, to really recognize how depraved I was and how, how, how much need I had, you know

01:09:11.860 what I mean? The prodigal son needed that the prodigal son came to the end of himself. And then

01:09:16.560 he remembered, Oh wait, you know, like, you know, my dad is actually good and I can, you know what

01:09:22.840 I mean? Like I can actually live there, you know, like, and some people need that. And the thing is

01:09:27.660 like, you know, again, you don't want to like curse him out or mistreat him or lie about him

01:09:32.660 or doing anything like that um but but there is a certain amount of roughness that someone like

01:09:39.540 that needs i mean you know it's it's it's there and he needs to be brought down a peg or two

01:09:45.220 his cleverness isn't going to save him you know his his his his fake morality isn't going to save

01:09:50.740 him like his this mission this movement whatever he thinks he's leading it's not going to help him

01:09:55.380 at the end of the day he needs to deal with his sin and um you know i i hope i hope the people

01:10:01.500 around him are, are, are, are, are loving him enough to potentially even walk away from him

01:10:08.040 if they need to. Right. Yep. I hope so too. And the reason why it matters is because in James

01:10:13.560 Lindsay's world, the two gay dudes who adopted two boys and sodomized them and trafficked them 0.97

01:10:19.240 with other gay guys to sodomize, that can happen. And we don't like that. We think that those two 0.98

01:10:24.960 guys should get the death penalty, that it should be a swift capital punishment, that they should 0.98

01:10:29.120 be executed um right and i say that just to put it into perspective i know that that's kind of 0.98

01:10:34.780 dropping a you know a bomb at the end of the episode but i say that to say um what standard 0.77

01:10:39.640 what standard do you use to say that gay marriage isn't a thing and what standard do you use to say 0.98

01:10:45.000 that two gay married guys can't adopt children right we have an answer for that gay gay dudes 0.96

01:10:51.880 don't get married in Christ's kingdom. 1.00

01:10:56.940 Yeah, no accommodation.

01:10:58.140 No accommodation for that.

01:10:59.380 So they don't get married, and they sure as heck,

01:11:02.040 they wouldn't even get married, but they sure as heck

01:11:04.940 don't get to adopt children.

01:11:07.820 Because it's a pretty straight line.

01:11:13.260 It's not pun intended, but it's a pretty straight line 1.00

01:11:16.760 from gay marriage to molesting children. 1.00

01:11:21.880 you like that the pun huh so but like it's a straight my so you you can't be shocked right 0.99

01:11:27.680 you can't be shocked that because it is a perverse uh a perverse lifestyle so it's like oh well you 1.00

01:11:34.940 know just because people are gay like there are heterosexual marriages that yeah and those are 1.00

01:11:39.040 misnomers right um yeah there are heterosexual marriages that have um that one of the spouses 0.96

01:11:45.240 has abused children. That is true. Absolutely true. But the gay couple shouldn't come as a 0.99

01:11:52.380 surprise. That makes sense. That's not a misnomer. That's not a fluke. That's actually just the

01:11:59.040 consistent continuance down that path, right? We're this perverted? Why not be a little bit

01:12:07.240 more? And so my point is just to say that James Lindsay, his world would punish guys for sodomizing

01:12:12.020 children. But it wouldn't stop two guys from getting married, and it wouldn't stop those

01:12:15.980 two guys from adopting children, which puts them in the very situation for something like that to

01:12:20.520 happen in the first place. By what standard? By what standard? That's right. So, anyway.

01:12:28.000 Good stuff, Joel. All right, cool, AD. Thanks for coming on the show. I hope you guys enjoyed

01:12:31.600 this episode. AD, how can people follow you? YouTube, AD Robles, R-O-B-L-E-S. Gab is my

01:12:39.900 favorite, AD Robles. Again, I'm also on Twitter. Cool. All right. Thanks for coming. Appreciate

01:12:45.280 it. God bless. Can I be frank with you for just a second, right here at the end? Look, some of you

01:12:50.300 guys, you're financially supporting this ministry. And from the bottom of my heart, I say, thank you.

01:12:55.860 I cannot thank you enough. However, some of you, you just, you can't afford it. In fact, some of

01:13:03.340 you shouldn't afford it. Let's be honest. I mean, we're living in Joe Biden's ridiculous economy.

01:13:10.180 Our nation and our totalitarian political elites lost their minds over the last three years 0.91

01:13:18.320 due to COVID. We have written checks that we simply cannot cash. It doesn't matter if people

01:13:25.260 change the definition of a recession. We are living in a recession right now, regardless.

01:13:32.080 Some of you are struggling to afford a carton of eggs at the grocery store.

01:13:36.700 You cannot support financially this ministry at this time, nor should you, but you could

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The NXR Podcast - January 31, 2023

THEOLOGY APPLIED - 2 Important Debates ｜ Jared Moore Vs. Doug Wilson, William Wolfe Vs. James Lindsay

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