The NXR Podcast - June 09, 2021


THEOLOGY APPLIED - 3 Reasons To Stop Using Bethel & Hillsong Music At Church (Part 1)

Hosted by
Joel Webbon Harrison Smith Antonio Griffith Dale Partridge Wewsley Todd Calvin Robinson
Mentioned
Bethel Hillsong Will Johnson Benny Johnson Harry Potter Seth Dahl Kathy Peter Prosperity Gospel Chris Vallotton Brian Houston St. Augustine Joe Biden Nazareth Matthew James Joel
THEOLOGY APPLIED - The Biblical Criteria For Genuine Persecution THEOLOGY APPLIED - 3 Reasons To Stop Using Bethel & Hillsong Music At Church (Part 2)

Episode Stats


Length

28 minutes

Words per minute

164.88

Word count

4,704

Sentence count

322

Harmful content

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

14

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Joel sits down with returning guest Justin Peters to discuss three reasons why you should stop using Bethel and Hillsong music in your church. 1. They re cults. 2. By using these songs, you re subjecting weaker members of your body to heresy. 3. They are not theologically robust enough to combat the idolatry and heresy that already exist in our sinful hearts.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 In this episode, I have the privilege of sitting down with returning guest Justin Peters to discuss
00:00:05.600 three reasons why you should stop using Bethel and Hillsong music in your church. The three
00:00:12.940 reasons are as follows. Number one, Bethel and Hillsong are not true churches. Number two,
00:00:20.420 by using Bethel and Hillsong music, you're subjecting weaker members of your body to heresy.
00:00:26.340 And number three, even the non-heretical songs by Bethel and Hillsong still are not theologically
00:00:35.440 robust enough to combat the idolatry and heresy that already exist in our sinful hearts. 0.72
00:00:43.040 Now, we recorded this in two parts.
00:00:45.480 And so for this part one, we're just going to tackle that first reason.
00:00:50.540 Bethel and Hillsong are not true churches.
00:00:52.800 And we're going to do this by explaining precisely why they're not true churches and providing a biblical criteria for what constitutes a true church according to God.
00:01:03.780 Applying God's word to every aspect of life.
00:01:07.120 This is Theology Applied.
00:01:14.840 All right.
00:01:15.960 So I'm privileged to have again as a returning guest, Justin Peters.
00:01:21.000 Justin, would you go ahead and just introduce yourself to our listeners?
00:01:23.880 Tell them a little bit about yourself and your ministry.
00:01:26.440 Yes, Joel.
00:01:26.920 My name is Justin Peters, and my wife, Kathy, and I live in Bozeman, Montana.
00:01:32.120 And I am in full-time evangelism.
00:01:34.780 I travel and preach and teach.
00:01:37.160 And I suppose that for which I'm most well-known is my critique of the Word of Faith movement,
00:01:43.920 New Apostolic Reformation, the Health and Wealth, Name and Claim it, Prosperity Gospel.
00:01:48.140 I have a seminar entitled Clouds Without Water that is a biblical refutation of that movement.
00:01:54.520 And it's not my only interest.
00:01:56.780 I am committed to expositional preaching, teach on some other issues as well.
00:02:03.600 I've written one book.
00:02:05.120 Well, I've technically written two books, but only one of them is available in English.
00:02:10.040 And the one that's available in English is entitled Do Not Hinder Them, a Biblical Examination of Childhood Conversion.
00:02:17.840 How to know when conversion has really taken place in the life of your child before you rush them off into the baptistry, just because they've made intellectual ascent to a few basic gospel facts.
00:02:28.740 So, yeah, so I deal with a number of other issues.
00:02:31.480 I have a YouTube channel.
00:02:32.540 I have a podcast.
00:02:33.640 And so, yeah, a lot of irons in the fire, I suppose you could say.
00:02:38.440 Great.
00:02:38.820 That's great.
00:02:39.800 All right.
00:02:40.140 So without further ado, we'll go ahead and hop into our topic.
00:02:42.920 We're talking about why local churches should not use Bethel, Hillsong, Elevation music in their worship services. 0.89
00:02:52.040 And I know you and I would both probably go further than that and just encourage Christians to kind of chunk it all together. 0.85
00:02:57.100 But especially on the Lord's Day when the saints gather together for our worship. 0.82
00:03:01.800 We want to be reverent.
00:03:03.580 We want to be scriptural.
00:03:05.080 We want to do that which God prescribes in His Word as our ordinances of worship.
00:03:09.980 And so that's the big thing that we're arguing in this particular episode of Theology Applied.
00:03:14.080 Local churches should not use Bethel and Hillsong for their worship services on the Lord's
00:03:19.940 Day.
00:03:20.240 And so we kind of are outlining three reasons.
00:03:23.460 And so the first reason that I know you and I both agree with, we've talked a little bit
00:03:28.480 about this offline, and I know you've done a lot on this subject in the past, but we
00:03:32.760 both agree that both Hillsong and Bethel are not churches.
00:03:37.200 And so could you speak to that for a moment?
00:03:41.120 Sure, Joel. Yeah, they're not.
00:03:43.360 They certainly have church in their name, but they are not churches by the biblical definition of a church,
00:03:49.100 because both Bethel and Hillsong are cults.
00:03:54.120 And a lot of people chafe when I say that, but I stand by it.
00:03:58.800 They do not have a biblical leadership structure.
00:04:01.840 They do not practice church discipline.
00:04:04.860 the first command, actually, that Jesus gave to his church, Matthew chapter 18. They don't do that.
00:04:11.320 And they are both committed to word of faith theology, word faith slash new apostolic
00:04:17.760 reformation, the very subject matter for which I'm most well known, that which I teach against
00:04:24.160 all over the world. The belief that it is always God's will to be healed. It is always God's will
00:04:30.420 to be wealthy. You can have physical healing and monetary prosperity as long as you have enough
00:04:36.300 faith. They hold the word faith theology, little God's doctrine, positive confession, speak things
00:04:42.660 into existence, all of these things. And an argument could certainly be made that Bethel,
00:04:48.900 pastored by Bill Johnson, is certainly more heretical from a purely doctrinal standpoint.
00:04:54.380 I mean, they they are they are more heretical, but they are they're cut from the same basic cloth.
00:05:04.620 And in fact, when you look at Hillsong's conferences, you see a lot of cross pollination between Hillsong, Brian Houston and Bethel, Bill Johnson.
00:05:16.620 They speak at each other's conferences. They're very friendly with each other.
00:05:20.900 They're simpatico. They endorse one another. And so, yeah, so they're both cults.
00:05:28.900 Yeah, I totally agree. And in my observation, it seems like they both have the foundation, the foundational doctrinal tenets, false doctrines.
00:05:37.820 The real difference isn't doctrinal. It's more so like a philosophy of ministry.
00:05:42.240 Hillsong is a little bit more of the seeker sensitive, lighthearted. 0.92
00:05:46.380 We don't want to scare you away. 1.00
00:05:48.020 And then Bethel is a little bit more of the, we'll talk about grave sucking, you know,
00:05:52.760 and we're, you know, we're going to scare a lot of, you know, sane people away.
00:05:57.740 I imagine that Hillsong probably has more sane people among its membership that are
00:06:02.620 just deceived, whereas Bethel attracts a lot of people, but really kind of a type of person,
00:06:10.680 you know, the type of person who I'm sure there's many precious people there.
00:06:14.940 but um but the type of person who's you know just more comfortable with in your face kind of mystical
00:06:21.200 you know you know things that a normal person would say that's that's pretty weird so but that
00:06:27.760 but my point is i think they both have the the same a lot of the same doctrinal tenets um but
00:06:32.740 there's there's a a very noticeable difference in in their philosophy of ministry so what what are
00:06:38.660 some of those doctrines um if you were to boil them down to maybe just a handful what are some
00:06:43.520 of the big, clear doctrinal heresies that Hillsong and or Bethel would hold to and have publicly
00:06:52.620 preached? Yeah, there would be a number of them. Both of them would be an anti-lordship
00:06:58.460 salvation kind of message. Easy believism, pray the sinner's prayer, you know, as long as you
00:07:07.300 recite those words, you're in, you're in the club kind of thing. No emphasis at all on repentance or
00:07:15.000 taking up the cross, denying yourself. And in fact, self-fulfillment and self-indulgence is
00:07:23.000 kind of the hallmark of this movement. You know, come to Christ and Jesus will make you rich and
00:07:28.240 Jesus will heal your body. They appeal to fallen human desires as the basis for their movement.
00:07:35.180 But Bethel would certainly, as I said a minute ago, doctrinally get more into full-blown heresy.
00:07:43.540 A hill song you can kind of think of is kind of like the Joel Osteen-ish wing of this movement,
00:07:49.760 you know, kind of the happy-clappy kind of stuff.
00:07:53.300 Bethel is that as well, but they get more into the heretical things, 0.63
00:07:58.640 Like one of the things that I have a video on my seminar that is just truly horrific.
00:08:06.600 And it's a video that Bethel uses actually in their advertisement.
00:08:10.340 It's not something that they're embarrassed by.
00:08:12.080 They're actually proud of it.
00:08:13.060 But it shows one of their staff members, a man named Seth Dahl, D-A-H-L.
00:08:18.760 And he claims in this video, I wish we had it, we could play it.
00:08:22.300 But he claims in this video that he had a vision of Jesus.
00:08:25.680 And in this vision, Jesus embraced him, held him, like hugged him tightly and said to Seth, please forgive me.
00:08:37.600 Please forgive me.
00:08:39.520 I mean, think about that.
00:08:40.560 The Son of God, the thrice holy Son of God, saying to a wretched, vile, sinful creature, please forgive me.
00:08:50.940 And I mean, that is so blasphemous.
00:08:53.880 Sometimes I feel like blasphemy is not even a strong enough word.
00:08:57.940 I kind of almost feel myself wanting something even stronger than that.
00:09:02.860 But it is utter and sheer blasphemy.
00:09:06.160 And they're proud of this.
00:09:08.320 I mean, this is something they have used, put out in their advertising.
00:09:12.620 So, I mean, any quote-unquote church that would have such a profoundly low view of Christ
00:09:20.420 as to actually advertise to the world that Jesus is asking any of us for forgiveness.
00:09:27.480 Right.
00:09:28.580 Gobsmacking, just gobsmacking.
00:09:31.860 And so a very low Christology. 0.94
00:09:34.740 They get into the, in addition to their grave sucking that you mentioned, 0.98
00:09:43.080 they have fire tunnels.
00:09:45.220 They have the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry that gets into all kinds.
00:09:49.820 That's a school of wizardry and witchcraft.
00:09:52.680 Yeah, it's like a theological.
00:09:54.000 Hogwarts.
00:09:54.920 Hogwarts, yeah.
00:09:57.160 Yeah, it's a theological.
00:09:58.060 It's kind of a Christianized version of, what's his name?
00:10:01.940 Harry Potter.
00:10:03.160 Harry Potter, there you go.
00:10:04.400 I got you.
00:10:05.820 But they also have a very low view of Christ.
00:10:10.680 Their Christology is very errant.
00:10:12.920 they get into the kenosis, the belief that Jesus completely divested himself of deity
00:10:22.420 while he was on earth. And why, real quick, why do they do that, Justin? Because you and I both
00:10:29.260 know there's a really specific reason why they want to, if we could speak to their intentions,
00:10:33.940 not just what they do, but why they do it. There's a really specific reason why they want
00:10:37.940 this Jesus who has to ask for certain people's forgiveness, which absolutely is blasphemous,
00:10:43.000 or this Jesus who completely empties himself, divest himself of his divinity, and this emphasis
00:10:50.200 on the kenosis. What is their intent? What are they trying to accomplish by kind of getting
00:10:56.940 Jesus small, making him small? Yeah. Well, they make Jesus small because they want to make man
00:11:05.020 big. And, uh, they, they believe that if you are a Christian, then you are, you stand on equal
00:11:13.240 footing with Christ, that you have all the rights, all the privileges of Jesus. You can do greater
00:11:19.260 works than these, which they totally take out of context. Uh, you, you're just like Jesus.
00:11:24.940 You have all the authority, you have all the power that he did. Uh, and, and so, um, in fact,
00:11:31.420 I don't have it in front of me, so I might not get this 100% of direct quote, but it's going to be real close if it's not.
00:11:38.840 Bill Johnson has said that Jesus is the most normal Christian who ever lived.
00:11:47.400 The most normal Christian who ever lived.
00:11:50.020 So, you know, if you're a Christian, hey, you're just like Jesus. 0.78
00:11:53.940 Right. 0.91
00:11:54.540 All the rights, all the privileges.
00:11:55.740 So so they have to knock him down to elevate us to be on the on the same plane as he is.
00:12:05.160 And specifically with the supernatural, with the gifts of the spirit, like Jesus, the most normal.
00:12:10.220 So so what they don't want to happen in that ultra charismatic kind of, you know, word of faith movement, what they don't want to happen is they don't want you to look at Jesus and say, well, that's Jesus.
00:12:21.920 which you and I would say frequently, we would say, well, that's Jesus. But that's what they
00:12:28.320 don't want to happen. They don't want people in their mind, they would be thinking, you know,
00:12:34.200 if anyone who's saying, well, that was Jesus is making in their mind an excuse. And so when they
00:12:38.880 say the most normal life, that's really intentional language Bill Johnson is using. So what he's
00:12:44.920 saying is rather than seeing Jesus as the God-man exception to all of humanity, far and above,
00:12:54.240 rather we look at him as the normative. And yes, it's true. We view Christ as the standard
00:13:02.900 in terms of his holiness, his doctrine, what he preached, what he taught, what he did, how he
00:13:07.980 lived. We look at him as the standard, but there's a difference in saying Christ is the standard
00:13:12.000 versus saying Christ is the norm. And when you say Christ is the norm, what you're ultimately
00:13:16.580 trying to accomplish is anybody who's not going around doing miracles a dozen times a day,
00:13:22.780 that's abnormal. That's abnormal. And so it's a way of creating a culture where
00:13:29.880 not only is the miraculous permissible or emphasized, but you're actually now ostracized
00:13:38.240 and even demonized if you're not thinking about talking about and attempting whatever that looks
00:13:44.980 like the miraculous on on a daily basis because that's been set as as the um not the standard
00:13:52.740 of holiness but the standard of of what's normative and so anything outside and so it's a
00:13:57.540 way of just kind of trying trying to you know say you know i i've heard bill johnson say before um
00:14:03.340 he has a, what does he call it? I have a Jesus theology or a theology of Jesus, you know,
00:14:10.240 anything that, how does he say that, Justin? You know what I'm talking about?
00:14:14.280 Yeah, various iterations of that, but his basic error is that he believes that, for example,
00:14:23.060 when Jesus gave us the model prayer, our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom
00:14:29.740 come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Bill Johnson extrapolates from that,
00:14:36.480 that on earth as it is in heaven, that whatever heaven is like, we should have here on earth.
00:14:41.840 And that's kind of like the foundation for his theology on healing. He says there, in fact,
00:14:47.840 I have this in my seminar. He said, there's no cancer in heaven. There should be no cancer here
00:14:51.720 on earth, even though his own wife has cancer. I don't know the status of it. Yeah. Benny Johnson
00:14:58.140 and was diagnosed with cancer several years ago.
00:15:01.580 I don't know what the status of it is now.
00:15:03.260 I mean, she's still alive.
00:15:04.320 I know that.
00:15:05.640 But anyway, he says, there's no cancer in heaven.
00:15:09.100 There should be no cancer on earth.
00:15:10.220 There's no sickness up in heaven.
00:15:11.500 There should be no sickness on earth.
00:15:13.120 And he says this as he's wearing eyeglasses.
00:15:16.600 Right.
00:15:17.420 You know, and I thought, it's like, okay, there's no eyeglasses in heaven either,
00:15:21.360 but yet you've got a pair of them sitting on your nose right now.
00:15:23.740 Not you, but, I mean, you do, but.
00:15:26.100 I do, I do.
00:15:27.020 But, I mean, so, I mean, you see how quickly it breaks down.
00:15:32.080 So it's this over-realized eschatology.
00:15:35.080 Yeah.
00:15:35.840 Over-realized eschatology.
00:15:37.280 They believe that everything that we are promised in the eschaton should be realized here and now.
00:15:44.500 And that's just not true.
00:15:46.380 And I might also point out that there is no marriage in heaven either.
00:15:50.200 You know, when you get to heaven, you're not going to be married to your wife.
00:15:54.200 When I get to heaven, I'm not going to be married to Kathy.
00:15:56.740 And yet he's married to Benny.
00:15:59.260 So you see how quickly.
00:16:02.140 He's not living in a very heavenly manner.
00:16:05.100 No, you're right.
00:16:06.300 It breaks down very quickly.
00:16:09.640 And it's sad because, you know, you're right.
00:16:12.340 It's an over-realized eschatology, but it's also a truncated over-realized eschatology because it's all focused.
00:16:19.920 So much of it is focused on physical health and wealth.
00:16:24.060 but especially with Bethel, you know, physical health, where it's like, man, in the new heavens
00:16:28.320 and the new earth, when we are there, there's a lot more going on besides just health. Yes,
00:16:35.040 we will be healthy. Yes, we will be made physically whole. We'll have glorified bodies
00:16:38.540 that will never grow weary and die. But there's a whole lot more. It's the increase of his kingdom.
00:16:46.500 There shall be no end. It's the perfect rule and reign of Christ. It's not just everyone's
00:16:53.880 healthy. It's also, there's no Joe Biden. There's no abortion. There's no, you know, there's a lot
00:16:58.460 of other great things that we could speak of with this, you know, with the new heavens and the new
00:17:04.040 earth. And yet theirs is an over-realized eschatology, but also a very truncated, narrow
00:17:09.840 eschatology that really only focuses on a couple elements and makes it as though it's the end all
00:17:15.740 be all. Right, right. The object of heaven, the object of our, they don't lift up Christ. In fact,
00:17:23.200 we were just talking about how they demote Christ. So, uh, I tell people often, you know,
00:17:29.080 when I, when I think about heaven, what captures my heart, what captures my attention, what captures
00:17:33.300 my affections, when I think about heaven is not being rid of my crutches. I think you can see one
00:17:39.340 of them in the, kind of in the background right there, not being rid of my crutches. I don't,
00:17:44.560 I don't even, I don't ever think about why. Yeah. I think I could just about say, I don't ever think
00:17:49.720 about that. I know it will be a reality, but it's not what captures my thoughts. What captures my
00:17:57.180 thoughts is that I will be in the presence of Christ, knowing Him fully, being able to worship
00:18:04.380 Him unencumbered by sin, being in awe of His person for all of eternity. That is what I think
00:18:14.300 about. Not streets of gold and supposed mansions, which is an unfortunate rendering in the King
00:18:21.200 James, but that's another subject matter. Not that kind of stuff. Not having heaven as a big
00:18:27.340 family reunion or all these things. So yeah. I agree. Real quick, before we move on from this,
00:18:35.260 because we'll get to the other two reasons, but the first reason you shouldn't use Bethel music,
00:18:39.180 Hillsong music in your church is because it's coming out of, of two institutions that are not
00:18:44.740 churches themselves. So if non-churches, according to biblical metrics for what constitutes a true
00:18:50.780 church are producing the music, it just, I mean, that just really doesn't make sense. It's, but
00:18:55.880 I mean, these days we have evangelical churches doing secular music, you know, doing a song by
00:19:01.700 U2 and in their worship, you know, so I guess at that point, then you might as well throw in,
00:19:08.560 you know, Bethel and Hillsong. But the point is, you know, these are two false churches. And with
00:19:15.700 that, you know, you mentioned the kenosis, and we've been talking about that, the idea of
00:19:19.560 trying to normalize Jesus, his earthly ministry, so that, you know, this is what every Christian
00:19:24.940 should expect. And really the emphasis, not so much being on his holiness, but more so being on
00:19:29.100 his miracles, the miraculous. And every Christian should expect to be like Jesus, because he's not 1.00
00:19:34.200 the standard so much as he's the norm. And so the idea of the, you know, the kenosis, the emptying 1.00
00:19:41.460 of Christ, they would get that from Philippians chapter 2, verses 5 through 8 says, have this
00:19:46.880 mind, speaking about humility in the church and honoring one another, loving one another,
00:19:51.960 have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who though he was in the form of
00:19:57.780 God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped. And they would really emphasize that,
00:20:02.880 but emptied himself by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men and
00:20:08.620 being found in human form. He humbled himself being obedient to the point of death, even death
00:20:13.500 on a cross. And so I just want to mention that real quick for our listeners, the way that Justin
00:20:17.460 and I would both exegete a text like that, that word grasp really is better rendered that the
00:20:23.700 equality with God, that Jesus, God, the father, that Jesus did not count as something that could
00:20:30.440 be grasped. That word is really, he did not cling to it. And so it's not this idea that Jesus was
00:20:35.540 somehow inferior to the father. He's equally worthy of worship, equally divine, equally
00:20:41.000 glorious. Jesus is the son of God. He very, very God, you know, very man, very God. And so he's
00:20:49.120 truly God, that equality with the father. What the text is saying is it's not that he didn't have it
00:20:55.640 and it was so far above him, he didn't even think he could reach it or grasp it. What it means
00:21:00.380 is no, he had equality with the father and always has. And precisely because he has real equality
00:21:08.240 with the father, he did not have a petty arrogance or presumptuous attitude that he had to hold on
00:21:18.460 to it, cling to it, and couldn't let it go. One of the ways you can tell when a person has real
00:21:23.080 authority, and they're not just a petty tyrant, is they don't always have to boast about their
00:21:30.880 title. They don't always have to boast of the authority that they have. And so Christ in
00:21:35.580 humility, and that's the mind that we're called to have about us, not his miracles, but his mindset
00:21:40.840 of loving others, considering others as more significant than ourselves, Christ was willing
00:21:47.900 to let go of that equality as it were. And we should add that phrase as it were. And what it
00:21:53.540 really meant was he did not divest himself of his deity. It says he emptied himself, but that's
00:21:58.280 another word that can be confusing. What it means is that he concealed, his divinity was concealed
00:22:03.480 by the flesh, by the human nature. So St. Augustine, he says that Christ is a divinity
00:22:08.780 wrapped in flesh. And so, you know, the Mount of Transfiguration, we see the divinity of Christ.
00:22:16.020 And, you know, and Peter, James, and John saw it and were taken aback, even at the arrest of Jesus.
00:22:22.160 The Gospel of John talks about twice that the soldiers, when Jesus just says, I am, you know, are you Jesus of Nazareth?
00:22:29.340 I am.
00:22:29.860 And when Jesus utters the words, I am, they fall back.
00:22:32.640 And Jesus has to help them arrest him.
00:22:35.700 Otherwise, they were never going to get it done.
00:22:37.340 So Jesus very much had maintained his divinity at every point and maintained it on earth.
00:22:43.520 But it was often concealed from being perceived by the minds and hearts and eyes and ears of men, including the disciples.
00:22:53.440 There are many, many moments where Jesus, you know, he even has to ask him, who do you think I am?
00:22:57.580 Who does man say that I am? Who do you think I am?
00:22:59.440 And Peter gets it right, but only because the fathers revealed it to him, because Jesus wasn't walking around on earth with a glowing light above his head, like some Jesus movies would kind of portray him.
00:23:10.020 But that's not because he lost his divinity or paused his divinity or laid it aside or emptied.
00:23:16.360 It's because his divinity was thoroughly concealed, present always, but concealed by flesh.
00:23:24.820 But we know it was there because there are multiple occasions where Jesus reminds his disciples and reminds us through the witness of Scripture that there's not a moment that he stopped being the fully divine son of God.
00:23:39.520 Would you agree with that, Justin? Anything you want to add to that?
00:23:43.200 I do agree with that. And no, I mean, you pretty much covered all the bases there.
00:23:48.720 Okay. I just want to make sure I didn't say anything that you wouldn't agree with there.
00:23:53.440 But yeah, so that's the problem. When you have a little Jesus theology, he divested himself of his divinity.
00:24:03.360 He's not really God on earth.
00:24:05.240 He somehow put that aside or paused it or emptied it.
00:24:09.080 And the whole idea is, and so now, you know, Jesus, so what's the power source?
00:24:13.940 Well, it's only, and you'll hear this kind of, it's Jesus is only doing things by the
00:24:18.120 power of the Holy Spirit.
00:24:19.440 And the gospel never to speak of that.
00:24:21.480 You know, the power of the Spirit was present to heal the sick or Jesus full of the Holy
00:24:27.960 Spirit or was led by the Spirit into the wilderness.
00:24:31.020 But what they want to do is they want to basically make it seem like Jesus had no divinity in and of himself.
00:24:37.680 And so he was only ever powered or empowered by the power of the Holy Spirit.
00:24:42.640 And wouldn't you know it, that's the same power that you and I have.
00:24:46.000 So there's no excuse for us not to be doing the exact same things that Jesus did.
00:24:51.960 And we would just say that's a horrible view of Jesus.
00:24:55.340 And that's just bad theology proper.
00:24:58.020 That's bad doctrine of God.
00:24:59.800 That's a bad view of the Trinity. That's a bad view of the hypostatic union of the divine nature and the human nature of Christ.
00:25:07.100 It misunderstands the incarnation. It misunderstands the essence of God.
00:25:11.920 It's just bad theology. And it's not just bad theology. It is heretical theology.
00:25:20.300 So anyway, could you name maybe one other doctrine that we would say, yeah, this is a heretical doctrine that's coming out of these institutions?
00:25:28.760 Well, related to that is the little gods doctrine.
00:25:31.600 They teach that we are gods.
00:25:34.280 Chris Vallotton has taught that recently within the last couple of years.
00:25:39.560 Little gods theology, of course, the kenosis, belief that we can speak things into existence,
00:25:46.300 belief that we can perform greater works than Jesus did. 0.78
00:25:50.640 And also, I mean, the false prophecies, you know, that in and of themselves marks them as outside of Orthodox Christianity because they all claim regularly that God speaks to them and they hear God speak to them constantly.
00:26:12.200 God seems to speak to these folks more than he ever did to Moses, and they're always, you know, it is, you probably could barely listen to 10 minutes of a sermon out of Bethel and not hear the phrase, God told me, you know, I heard God say, God said this and God said that.
00:26:29.980 I mean, it's just constant. It's just, it flows out of them. It uses out of their pores. And so
00:26:37.240 the charismatic movement really does not believe it to be a serious thing to put words in God's
00:26:43.940 mouth that he did not say. And yet the Bible marks such people as false prophets. And they do this
00:26:51.340 all the time, all the time. I mean, it's, and you listen to their sermons. It's not about exegesis.
00:26:57.280 you don't hear exposition of the text. You'll,
00:27:01.240 you hear stories and personal experiences. Well, God did this, God did that.
00:27:05.660 You know, I saw this, this happened over here.
00:27:07.560 And they'll throw in a verse here or two just to kind of sprinkle it in to,
00:27:11.520 you know, just to make it appear to be preaching, but that there's no exposition
00:27:16.000 there. There's no inductive study of scripture.
00:27:21.300 It's all about stories, feelings, personal experiences and false prophecies.
00:27:26.300 And they do that literally all the time.
00:27:30.500 Yep, you're right.
00:27:31.220 Justin, thanks so much for coming on the show.
00:27:33.040 I really appreciate it.
00:27:34.140 You're welcome, brother.
00:27:35.020 You're welcome.
00:27:35.620 God bless you.
00:27:36.640 Any way that our people can follow you, keep up with you?
00:27:39.800 Yeah, I have a website, justinpeters.org.
00:27:44.500 And so they can find out more about me and my ministry, justinpeters.org.
00:27:50.260 I have a YouTube channel.
00:27:51.500 I'm pretty active on that.
00:27:52.540 I put videos out fairly regularly.
00:27:56.300 and just Peter's Ministries' Facebook page as well.
00:28:01.000 Okay, thanks. Appreciate it. Thank you so much.
00:28:04.180 Thanks, Joel.
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