The NXR Podcast - June 09, 2021


THEOLOGY APPLIED - 3 Reasons To Stop Using Bethel & Hillsong Music At Church (Part 1)

Hosted by
Joel Webbon Harrison Smith Antonio Griffith Dale Partridge Wewsley Todd Calvin Robinson
Mentioned
Bethel Hillsong Will Johnson Benny Johnson Harry Potter Seth Dahl Kathy Peter Prosperity Gospel Chris Vallotton Brian Houston St. Augustine Joe Biden Nazareth Matthew James Joel
THEOLOGY APPLIED - The Biblical Criteria For Genuine Persecution THEOLOGY APPLIED - 3 Reasons To Stop Using Bethel & Hillsong Music At Church (Part 2)

Episode Stats


Length

28 minutes

Words per minute

164.88

Word count

4,704

Sentence count

338

Harmful content

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

14

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Joel sits down with returning guest Justin Peters to discuss three reasons why you should stop using Bethel and Hillsong music in your church. 1. They re cults. 2. By using these songs, you re subjecting weaker members of your body to heresy. 3. They are not theologically robust enough to combat the idolatry and heresy that already exist in our sinful hearts.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00 In this episode, I have the privilege of sitting down with returning guest Justin Peters to discuss
00:00:05 three reasons why you should stop using Bethel and Hillsong music in your church. The three
00:00:12 reasons are as follows. Number one, Bethel and Hillsong are not true churches. Number two,
00:00:20 by using Bethel and Hillsong music, you're subjecting weaker members of your body to heresy.
00:00:26 And number three, even the non-heretical songs by Bethel and Hillsong still are not theologically
00:00:35 robust enough to combat the idolatry and heresy that already exist in our sinful hearts. 0.72
00:00:43 Now, we recorded this in two parts.
00:00:45 And so for this part one, we're just going to tackle that first reason.
00:00:50 Bethel and Hillsong are not true churches.
00:00:52 And we're going to do this by explaining precisely why they're not true churches and providing a biblical criteria for what constitutes a true church according to God.
00:01:03 Applying God's word to every aspect of life.
00:01:07 This is Theology Applied.
00:01:14 All right.
00:01:15 So I'm privileged to have again as a returning guest, Justin Peters.
00:01:21 Justin, would you go ahead and just introduce yourself to our listeners?
00:01:23 Tell them a little bit about yourself and your ministry.
00:01:26 Yes, Joel.
00:01:26 My name is Justin Peters, and my wife, Kathy, and I live in Bozeman, Montana.
00:01:32 And I am in full-time evangelism.
00:01:34 I travel and preach and teach.
00:01:37 And I suppose that for which I'm most well-known is my critique of the Word of Faith movement,
00:01:43 New Apostolic Reformation, the Health and Wealth, Name and Claim it, Prosperity Gospel.
00:01:48 I have a seminar entitled Clouds Without Water that is a biblical refutation of that movement.
00:01:54 And it's not my only interest.
00:01:56 I am committed to expositional preaching, teach on some other issues as well.
00:02:03 I've written one book.
00:02:05 Well, I've technically written two books, but only one of them is available in English.
00:02:10 And the one that's available in English is entitled Do Not Hinder Them, a Biblical Examination of Childhood Conversion.
00:02:17 How to know when conversion has really taken place in the life of your child before you rush them off into the baptistry, just because they've made intellectual ascent to a few basic gospel facts.
00:02:28 So, yeah, so I deal with a number of other issues.
00:02:31 I have a YouTube channel.
00:02:32 I have a podcast.
00:02:33 And so, yeah, a lot of irons in the fire, I suppose you could say.
00:02:38 Great.
00:02:38 That's great.
00:02:39 All right.
00:02:40 So without further ado, we'll go ahead and hop into our topic.
00:02:42 We're talking about why local churches should not use Bethel, Hillsong, Elevation music in their worship services. 0.89
00:02:52 And I know you and I would both probably go further than that and just encourage Christians to kind of chunk it all together. 0.85
00:02:57 But especially on the Lord's Day when the saints gather together for our worship. 0.82
00:03:01 We want to be reverent.
00:03:03 We want to be scriptural.
00:03:05 We want to do that which God prescribes in His Word as our ordinances of worship.
00:03:09 And so that's the big thing that we're arguing in this particular episode of Theology Applied.
00:03:14 Local churches should not use Bethel and Hillsong for their worship services on the Lord's
00:03:19 Day.
00:03:20 And so we kind of are outlining three reasons.
00:03:23 And so the first reason that I know you and I both agree with, we've talked a little bit
00:03:28 about this offline, and I know you've done a lot on this subject in the past, but we
00:03:32 both agree that both Hillsong and Bethel are not churches.
00:03:37 And so could you speak to that for a moment?
00:03:41 Sure, Joel. Yeah, they're not.
00:03:43 They certainly have church in their name, but they are not churches by the biblical definition of a church,
00:03:49 because both Bethel and Hillsong are cults.
00:03:54 And a lot of people chafe when I say that, but I stand by it.
00:03:58 They do not have a biblical leadership structure.
00:04:01 They do not practice church discipline.
00:04:04 the first command, actually, that Jesus gave to his church, Matthew chapter 18. They don't do that.
00:04:11 And they are both committed to word of faith theology, word faith slash new apostolic
00:04:17 reformation, the very subject matter for which I'm most well known, that which I teach against
00:04:24 all over the world. The belief that it is always God's will to be healed. It is always God's will
00:04:30 to be wealthy. You can have physical healing and monetary prosperity as long as you have enough
00:04:36 faith. They hold the word faith theology, little God's doctrine, positive confession, speak things
00:04:42 into existence, all of these things. And an argument could certainly be made that Bethel,
00:04:48 pastored by Bill Johnson, is certainly more heretical from a purely doctrinal standpoint.
00:04:54 I mean, they they are they are more heretical, but they are they're cut from the same basic cloth.
00:05:04 And in fact, when you look at Hillsong's conferences, you see a lot of cross pollination between Hillsong, Brian Houston and Bethel, Bill Johnson.
00:05:16 They speak at each other's conferences. They're very friendly with each other.
00:05:20 They're simpatico. They endorse one another. And so, yeah, so they're both cults.
00:05:28 Yeah, I totally agree. And in my observation, it seems like they both have the foundation, the foundational doctrinal tenets, false doctrines.
00:05:37 The real difference isn't doctrinal. It's more so like a philosophy of ministry.
00:05:42 Hillsong is a little bit more of the seeker sensitive, lighthearted. 0.92
00:05:46 We don't want to scare you away. 1.00
00:05:48 And then Bethel is a little bit more of the, we'll talk about grave sucking, you know,
00:05:52 and we're, you know, we're going to scare a lot of, you know, sane people away.
00:05:57 I imagine that Hillsong probably has more sane people among its membership that are
00:06:02 just deceived, whereas Bethel attracts a lot of people, but really kind of a type of person,
00:06:10 you know, the type of person who I'm sure there's many precious people there.
00:06:14 but um but the type of person who's you know just more comfortable with in your face kind of mystical
00:06:21 you know you know things that a normal person would say that's that's pretty weird so but that
00:06:27 but my point is i think they both have the the same a lot of the same doctrinal tenets um but
00:06:32 there's there's a a very noticeable difference in in their philosophy of ministry so what what are
00:06:38 some of those doctrines um if you were to boil them down to maybe just a handful what are some
00:06:43 of the big, clear doctrinal heresies that Hillsong and or Bethel would hold to and have publicly
00:06:52 preached? Yeah, there would be a number of them. Both of them would be an anti-lordship
00:06:58 salvation kind of message. Easy believism, pray the sinner's prayer, you know, as long as you
00:07:07 recite those words, you're in, you're in the club kind of thing. No emphasis at all on repentance or
00:07:15 taking up the cross, denying yourself. And in fact, self-fulfillment and self-indulgence is
00:07:23 kind of the hallmark of this movement. You know, come to Christ and Jesus will make you rich and
00:07:28 Jesus will heal your body. They appeal to fallen human desires as the basis for their movement.
00:07:35 But Bethel would certainly, as I said a minute ago, doctrinally get more into full-blown heresy.
00:07:43 A hill song you can kind of think of is kind of like the Joel Osteen-ish wing of this movement,
00:07:49 you know, kind of the happy-clappy kind of stuff.
00:07:53 Bethel is that as well, but they get more into the heretical things, 0.63
00:07:58 Like one of the things that I have a video on my seminar that is just truly horrific.
00:08:06 And it's a video that Bethel uses actually in their advertisement.
00:08:10 It's not something that they're embarrassed by.
00:08:12 They're actually proud of it.
00:08:13 But it shows one of their staff members, a man named Seth Dahl, D-A-H-L.
00:08:18 And he claims in this video, I wish we had it, we could play it.
00:08:22 But he claims in this video that he had a vision of Jesus.
00:08:25 And in this vision, Jesus embraced him, held him, like hugged him tightly and said to Seth, please forgive me.
00:08:37 Please forgive me.
00:08:39 I mean, think about that.
00:08:40 The Son of God, the thrice holy Son of God, saying to a wretched, vile, sinful creature, please forgive me.
00:08:50 And I mean, that is so blasphemous.
00:08:53 Sometimes I feel like blasphemy is not even a strong enough word.
00:08:57 I kind of almost feel myself wanting something even stronger than that.
00:09:02 But it is utter and sheer blasphemy.
00:09:06 And they're proud of this.
00:09:08 I mean, this is something they have used, put out in their advertising.
00:09:12 So, I mean, any quote-unquote church that would have such a profoundly low view of Christ
00:09:20 as to actually advertise to the world that Jesus is asking any of us for forgiveness.
00:09:27 Right.
00:09:28 Gobsmacking, just gobsmacking.
00:09:31 And so a very low Christology. 0.94
00:09:34 They get into the, in addition to their grave sucking that you mentioned, 0.98
00:09:43 they have fire tunnels.
00:09:45 They have the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry that gets into all kinds.
00:09:49 That's a school of wizardry and witchcraft.
00:09:52 Yeah, it's like a theological.
00:09:54 Hogwarts.
00:09:54 Hogwarts, yeah.
00:09:57 Yeah, it's a theological.
00:09:58 It's kind of a Christianized version of, what's his name?
00:10:01 Harry Potter.
00:10:03 Harry Potter, there you go.
00:10:04 I got you.
00:10:05 But they also have a very low view of Christ.
00:10:10 Their Christology is very errant.
00:10:12 they get into the kenosis, the belief that Jesus completely divested himself of deity
00:10:22 while he was on earth. And why, real quick, why do they do that, Justin? Because you and I both
00:10:29 know there's a really specific reason why they want to, if we could speak to their intentions,
00:10:33 not just what they do, but why they do it. There's a really specific reason why they want
00:10:37 this Jesus who has to ask for certain people's forgiveness, which absolutely is blasphemous,
00:10:43 or this Jesus who completely empties himself, divest himself of his divinity, and this emphasis
00:10:50 on the kenosis. What is their intent? What are they trying to accomplish by kind of getting
00:10:56 Jesus small, making him small? Yeah. Well, they make Jesus small because they want to make man
00:11:05 big. And, uh, they, they believe that if you are a Christian, then you are, you stand on equal
00:11:13 footing with Christ, that you have all the rights, all the privileges of Jesus. You can do greater
00:11:19 works than these, which they totally take out of context. Uh, you, you're just like Jesus.
00:11:24 You have all the authority, you have all the power that he did. Uh, and, and so, um, in fact,
00:11:31 I don't have it in front of me, so I might not get this 100% of direct quote, but it's going to be real close if it's not.
00:11:38 Bill Johnson has said that Jesus is the most normal Christian who ever lived.
00:11:47 The most normal Christian who ever lived.
00:11:50 So, you know, if you're a Christian, hey, you're just like Jesus. 0.78
00:11:53 Right. 0.91
00:11:54 All the rights, all the privileges.
00:11:55 So so they have to knock him down to elevate us to be on the on the same plane as he is.
00:12:05 And specifically with the supernatural, with the gifts of the spirit, like Jesus, the most normal.
00:12:10 So so what they don't want to happen in that ultra charismatic kind of, you know, word of faith movement, what they don't want to happen is they don't want you to look at Jesus and say, well, that's Jesus.
00:12:21 which you and I would say frequently, we would say, well, that's Jesus. But that's what they
00:12:28 don't want to happen. They don't want people in their mind, they would be thinking, you know,
00:12:34 if anyone who's saying, well, that was Jesus is making in their mind an excuse. And so when they
00:12:38 say the most normal life, that's really intentional language Bill Johnson is using. So what he's
00:12:44 saying is rather than seeing Jesus as the God-man exception to all of humanity, far and above,
00:12:54 rather we look at him as the normative. And yes, it's true. We view Christ as the standard
00:13:02 in terms of his holiness, his doctrine, what he preached, what he taught, what he did, how he
00:13:07 lived. We look at him as the standard, but there's a difference in saying Christ is the standard
00:13:12 versus saying Christ is the norm. And when you say Christ is the norm, what you're ultimately
00:13:16 trying to accomplish is anybody who's not going around doing miracles a dozen times a day,
00:13:22 that's abnormal. That's abnormal. And so it's a way of creating a culture where
00:13:29 not only is the miraculous permissible or emphasized, but you're actually now ostracized
00:13:38 and even demonized if you're not thinking about talking about and attempting whatever that looks
00:13:44 like the miraculous on on a daily basis because that's been set as as the um not the standard
00:13:52 of holiness but the standard of of what's normative and so anything outside and so it's a
00:13:57 way of just kind of trying trying to you know say you know i i've heard bill johnson say before um
00:14:03 he has a, what does he call it? I have a Jesus theology or a theology of Jesus, you know,
00:14:10 anything that, how does he say that, Justin? You know what I'm talking about?
00:14:14 Yeah, various iterations of that, but his basic error is that he believes that, for example,
00:14:23 when Jesus gave us the model prayer, our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom
00:14:29 come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Bill Johnson extrapolates from that,
00:14:36 that on earth as it is in heaven, that whatever heaven is like, we should have here on earth.
00:14:41 And that's kind of like the foundation for his theology on healing. He says there, in fact,
00:14:47 I have this in my seminar. He said, there's no cancer in heaven. There should be no cancer here
00:14:51 on earth, even though his own wife has cancer. I don't know the status of it. Yeah. Benny Johnson
00:14:58 and was diagnosed with cancer several years ago.
00:15:01 I don't know what the status of it is now.
00:15:03 I mean, she's still alive.
00:15:04 I know that.
00:15:05 But anyway, he says, there's no cancer in heaven.
00:15:09 There should be no cancer on earth.
00:15:10 There's no sickness up in heaven.
00:15:11 There should be no sickness on earth.
00:15:13 And he says this as he's wearing eyeglasses.
00:15:16 Right.
00:15:17 You know, and I thought, it's like, okay, there's no eyeglasses in heaven either,
00:15:21 but yet you've got a pair of them sitting on your nose right now.
00:15:23 Not you, but, I mean, you do, but.
00:15:26 I do, I do.
00:15:27 But, I mean, so, I mean, you see how quickly it breaks down.
00:15:32 So it's this over-realized eschatology.
00:15:35 Yeah.
00:15:35 Over-realized eschatology.
00:15:37 They believe that everything that we are promised in the eschaton should be realized here and now.
00:15:44 And that's just not true.
00:15:46 And I might also point out that there is no marriage in heaven either.
00:15:50 You know, when you get to heaven, you're not going to be married to your wife.
00:15:54 When I get to heaven, I'm not going to be married to Kathy.
00:15:56 And yet he's married to Benny.
00:15:59 So you see how quickly.
00:16:02 He's not living in a very heavenly manner.
00:16:05 No, you're right.
00:16:06 It breaks down very quickly.
00:16:09 And it's sad because, you know, you're right.
00:16:12 It's an over-realized eschatology, but it's also a truncated over-realized eschatology because it's all focused.
00:16:19 So much of it is focused on physical health and wealth.
00:16:24 but especially with Bethel, you know, physical health, where it's like, man, in the new heavens
00:16:28 and the new earth, when we are there, there's a lot more going on besides just health. Yes,
00:16:35 we will be healthy. Yes, we will be made physically whole. We'll have glorified bodies
00:16:38 that will never grow weary and die. But there's a whole lot more. It's the increase of his kingdom.
00:16:46 There shall be no end. It's the perfect rule and reign of Christ. It's not just everyone's
00:16:53 healthy. It's also, there's no Joe Biden. There's no abortion. There's no, you know, there's a lot
00:16:58 of other great things that we could speak of with this, you know, with the new heavens and the new
00:17:04 earth. And yet theirs is an over-realized eschatology, but also a very truncated, narrow
00:17:09 eschatology that really only focuses on a couple elements and makes it as though it's the end all
00:17:15 be all. Right, right. The object of heaven, the object of our, they don't lift up Christ. In fact,
00:17:23 we were just talking about how they demote Christ. So, uh, I tell people often, you know,
00:17:29 when I, when I think about heaven, what captures my heart, what captures my attention, what captures
00:17:33 my affections, when I think about heaven is not being rid of my crutches. I think you can see one
00:17:39 of them in the, kind of in the background right there, not being rid of my crutches. I don't,
00:17:44 I don't even, I don't ever think about why. Yeah. I think I could just about say, I don't ever think
00:17:49 about that. I know it will be a reality, but it's not what captures my thoughts. What captures my
00:17:57 thoughts is that I will be in the presence of Christ, knowing Him fully, being able to worship
00:18:04 Him unencumbered by sin, being in awe of His person for all of eternity. That is what I think
00:18:14 about. Not streets of gold and supposed mansions, which is an unfortunate rendering in the King
00:18:21 James, but that's another subject matter. Not that kind of stuff. Not having heaven as a big
00:18:27 family reunion or all these things. So yeah. I agree. Real quick, before we move on from this,
00:18:35 because we'll get to the other two reasons, but the first reason you shouldn't use Bethel music,
00:18:39 Hillsong music in your church is because it's coming out of, of two institutions that are not
00:18:44 churches themselves. So if non-churches, according to biblical metrics for what constitutes a true
00:18:50 church are producing the music, it just, I mean, that just really doesn't make sense. It's, but
00:18:55 I mean, these days we have evangelical churches doing secular music, you know, doing a song by
00:19:01 U2 and in their worship, you know, so I guess at that point, then you might as well throw in,
00:19:08 you know, Bethel and Hillsong. But the point is, you know, these are two false churches. And with
00:19:15 that, you know, you mentioned the kenosis, and we've been talking about that, the idea of
00:19:19 trying to normalize Jesus, his earthly ministry, so that, you know, this is what every Christian
00:19:24 should expect. And really the emphasis, not so much being on his holiness, but more so being on
00:19:29 his miracles, the miraculous. And every Christian should expect to be like Jesus, because he's not 1.00
00:19:34 the standard so much as he's the norm. And so the idea of the, you know, the kenosis, the emptying 1.00
00:19:41 of Christ, they would get that from Philippians chapter 2, verses 5 through 8 says, have this
00:19:46 mind, speaking about humility in the church and honoring one another, loving one another,
00:19:51 have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who though he was in the form of
00:19:57 God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped. And they would really emphasize that,
00:20:02 but emptied himself by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men and
00:20:08 being found in human form. He humbled himself being obedient to the point of death, even death
00:20:13 on a cross. And so I just want to mention that real quick for our listeners, the way that Justin
00:20:17 and I would both exegete a text like that, that word grasp really is better rendered that the
00:20:23 equality with God, that Jesus, God, the father, that Jesus did not count as something that could
00:20:30 be grasped. That word is really, he did not cling to it. And so it's not this idea that Jesus was
00:20:35 somehow inferior to the father. He's equally worthy of worship, equally divine, equally
00:20:41 glorious. Jesus is the son of God. He very, very God, you know, very man, very God. And so he's
00:20:49 truly God, that equality with the father. What the text is saying is it's not that he didn't have it
00:20:55 and it was so far above him, he didn't even think he could reach it or grasp it. What it means
00:21:00 is no, he had equality with the father and always has. And precisely because he has real equality
00:21:08 with the father, he did not have a petty arrogance or presumptuous attitude that he had to hold on
00:21:18 to it, cling to it, and couldn't let it go. One of the ways you can tell when a person has real
00:21:23 authority, and they're not just a petty tyrant, is they don't always have to boast about their
00:21:30 title. They don't always have to boast of the authority that they have. And so Christ in
00:21:35 humility, and that's the mind that we're called to have about us, not his miracles, but his mindset
00:21:40 of loving others, considering others as more significant than ourselves, Christ was willing
00:21:47 to let go of that equality as it were. And we should add that phrase as it were. And what it
00:21:53 really meant was he did not divest himself of his deity. It says he emptied himself, but that's
00:21:58 another word that can be confusing. What it means is that he concealed, his divinity was concealed
00:22:03 by the flesh, by the human nature. So St. Augustine, he says that Christ is a divinity
00:22:08 wrapped in flesh. And so, you know, the Mount of Transfiguration, we see the divinity of Christ.
00:22:16 And, you know, and Peter, James, and John saw it and were taken aback, even at the arrest of Jesus.
00:22:22 The Gospel of John talks about twice that the soldiers, when Jesus just says, I am, you know, are you Jesus of Nazareth?
00:22:29 I am.
00:22:29 And when Jesus utters the words, I am, they fall back.
00:22:32 And Jesus has to help them arrest him.
00:22:35 Otherwise, they were never going to get it done.
00:22:37 So Jesus very much had maintained his divinity at every point and maintained it on earth.
00:22:43 But it was often concealed from being perceived by the minds and hearts and eyes and ears of men, including the disciples.
00:22:53 There are many, many moments where Jesus, you know, he even has to ask him, who do you think I am?
00:22:57 Who does man say that I am? Who do you think I am?
00:22:59 And Peter gets it right, but only because the fathers revealed it to him, because Jesus wasn't walking around on earth with a glowing light above his head, like some Jesus movies would kind of portray him.
00:23:10 But that's not because he lost his divinity or paused his divinity or laid it aside or emptied.
00:23:16 It's because his divinity was thoroughly concealed, present always, but concealed by flesh.
00:23:24 But we know it was there because there are multiple occasions where Jesus reminds his disciples and reminds us through the witness of Scripture that there's not a moment that he stopped being the fully divine son of God.
00:23:39 Would you agree with that, Justin? Anything you want to add to that?
00:23:43 I do agree with that. And no, I mean, you pretty much covered all the bases there.
00:23:48 Okay. I just want to make sure I didn't say anything that you wouldn't agree with there.
00:23:53 But yeah, so that's the problem. When you have a little Jesus theology, he divested himself of his divinity.
00:24:03 He's not really God on earth.
00:24:05 He somehow put that aside or paused it or emptied it.
00:24:09 And the whole idea is, and so now, you know, Jesus, so what's the power source?
00:24:13 Well, it's only, and you'll hear this kind of, it's Jesus is only doing things by the
00:24:18 power of the Holy Spirit.
00:24:19 And the gospel never to speak of that.
00:24:21 You know, the power of the Spirit was present to heal the sick or Jesus full of the Holy
00:24:27 Spirit or was led by the Spirit into the wilderness.
00:24:31 But what they want to do is they want to basically make it seem like Jesus had no divinity in and of himself.
00:24:37 And so he was only ever powered or empowered by the power of the Holy Spirit.
00:24:42 And wouldn't you know it, that's the same power that you and I have.
00:24:46 So there's no excuse for us not to be doing the exact same things that Jesus did.
00:24:51 And we would just say that's a horrible view of Jesus.
00:24:55 And that's just bad theology proper.
00:24:58 That's bad doctrine of God.
00:24:59 That's a bad view of the Trinity. That's a bad view of the hypostatic union of the divine nature and the human nature of Christ.
00:25:07 It misunderstands the incarnation. It misunderstands the essence of God.
00:25:11 It's just bad theology. And it's not just bad theology. It is heretical theology.
00:25:20 So anyway, could you name maybe one other doctrine that we would say, yeah, this is a heretical doctrine that's coming out of these institutions?
00:25:28 Well, related to that is the little gods doctrine.
00:25:31 They teach that we are gods.
00:25:34 Chris Vallotton has taught that recently within the last couple of years.
00:25:39 Little gods theology, of course, the kenosis, belief that we can speak things into existence,
00:25:46 belief that we can perform greater works than Jesus did. 0.78
00:25:50 And also, I mean, the false prophecies, you know, that in and of themselves marks them as outside of Orthodox Christianity because they all claim regularly that God speaks to them and they hear God speak to them constantly.
00:26:12 God seems to speak to these folks more than he ever did to Moses, and they're always, you know, it is, you probably could barely listen to 10 minutes of a sermon out of Bethel and not hear the phrase, God told me, you know, I heard God say, God said this and God said that.
00:26:29 I mean, it's just constant. It's just, it flows out of them. It uses out of their pores. And so
00:26:37 the charismatic movement really does not believe it to be a serious thing to put words in God's
00:26:43 mouth that he did not say. And yet the Bible marks such people as false prophets. And they do this
00:26:51 all the time, all the time. I mean, it's, and you listen to their sermons. It's not about exegesis.
00:26:57 you don't hear exposition of the text. You'll,
00:27:01 you hear stories and personal experiences. Well, God did this, God did that.
00:27:05 You know, I saw this, this happened over here.
00:27:07 And they'll throw in a verse here or two just to kind of sprinkle it in to,
00:27:11 you know, just to make it appear to be preaching, but that there's no exposition
00:27:16 there. There's no inductive study of scripture.
00:27:21 It's all about stories, feelings, personal experiences and false prophecies.
00:27:26 And they do that literally all the time.
00:27:30 Yep, you're right.
00:27:31 Justin, thanks so much for coming on the show.
00:27:33 I really appreciate it.
00:27:34 You're welcome, brother.
00:27:35 You're welcome.
00:27:35 God bless you.
00:27:36 Any way that our people can follow you, keep up with you?
00:27:39 Yeah, I have a website, justinpeters.org.
00:27:44 And so they can find out more about me and my ministry, justinpeters.org.
00:27:50 I have a YouTube channel.
00:27:51 I'm pretty active on that.
00:27:52 I put videos out fairly regularly.
00:27:56 and just Peter's Ministries' Facebook page as well.
00:28:01 Okay, thanks. Appreciate it. Thank you so much.
00:28:04 Thanks, Joel.
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00:28:19 If you or someone you know has wrestled with doubts about the love of God,
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