The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - #ACCOUNTABILITY For LeBron James

00:00:00.520 Applying God's Word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.

00:00:12.300 Hi, this is Pastor Joel with Right Response Ministries. We have another episode of Theology

00:00:17.540 Applied, our podcast slash show. Today I'm privileged to have as a special guest, Mark

00:00:22.400 Hamilton. Mark Hamilton and I have gotten to know each other recently through social media

00:00:26.660 and then having a call on the phone and he wears many hats he is a pastor of a church called

00:00:32.900 faithful stones and he'll share some of that with us but that's not really his day job he's a

00:00:38.180 bivocational pastor his primary vocation in terms of income for his family is he is a detective

00:00:45.000 in buffalo new york he also does a lot with fitness if you ever check out his instagram

00:00:50.960 you'll see a lot of fitness tips and he does a lot of that not just for vanity or image or those

00:00:55.840 kinds of things, but to train public servants and how to be more equipped and more effective

00:01:01.940 in their jobs. He's also a husband. He's also, by God's grace, a father of five. So without further

00:01:07.240 ado, Mark Hamilton, anything I missed, feel free to introduce yourself. Welcome to the show.

00:01:14.000 Well, thank you for having me, Joel. It's a pleasure and a joy to be here. I'm

00:01:18.900 overwhelmed by God's grace, how he has brought us together. Yes, as you said, I am a husband of a

00:01:27.560 lovely wife, a nice lady, as I joke with her. She's a nice lady, and she laughs because she

00:01:36.540 truly is. She's a worthy woman, as Ruth says, and she loves her family. She loves God, and she loves

00:01:44.820 the people of God. Our girls, we're raising to love God most so that if they love God most,

00:01:56.500 they will love us just fine and everyone else too. So we are happy to have our family

00:02:04.800 growing by God's grace. Tell me a little bit about what is it like being a detective? What's

00:02:13.720 it like being a police officer in buffalo what's what's the temperature there in new york well

00:02:18.420 uh i i believe it would be um similar to what's going on around the country um the the temperature

00:02:27.840 is high um emotions about what's going on is uh at a fever pitch really because um everybody is

00:02:38.080 reacting emotionally. And in my case, I get to see what I call the ethnic emotionalism

00:02:47.220 because we have a lot of premature reacting to situations that heightens the situation,

00:02:58.500 makes it worse. It doesn't make it better. It doesn't bring any calm or any sense to the matter.

00:03:04.960 It just brings feelings and personal agendas to the situation.

00:03:10.920 So being a detective in the city of Buffalo, I would be able to sympathize with a lot of the officers around the nation that are going through things, some deservantly, some undeservantly.

00:03:30.100 Most of it is unwarranted, I would say.

00:03:33.220 Most of it is unwarranted because the heightened pitch where the media has really infused this animosity against the police and the citizens is just, it's unfair and unwarranted.

00:03:51.860 Right. I was going to say, it's not just that you're under the police department all across our nation. It's not just that police are under intense scrutiny or meticulous scrutiny. But it's like you said, it's unfair scrutiny because basically you have what nobody likes. I don't like it. Nobody likes it. Even pastors, you know, don't enjoy when somebody who doesn't have your job thinks they know more about your job than you do and tells you how to do it.

00:04:17.960 You know, so you have, I mean, you have the whole nation and part of that's just the phenomenon of social media and everybody carrying around a video camera in their pocket, essentially, you know, and being able to, but the problem is, you know, I keep thinking about, I think it's Proverbs 18, 17, that, you know, the first one to bring his case seems right until another cross examines him.

00:04:39.680 And you might say, and I think with the George Floyd instance, a lot of people are like, hey, that's not just somebody bringing their case.

00:04:44.980 They didn't just present a case.

00:04:46.680 They presented evidence, and they presented conclusive evidence because it's video, Joel.

00:04:53.200 It's video, Mark.

00:04:54.080 What more could you want?

00:04:56.320 But the reality is that there are many different variables at play.

00:05:01.040 And even with video, there's video from multiple angles.

00:05:03.800 There's the person who's got an iPhone standing off to the side.

00:05:06.400 There's the body cam footage.

00:05:08.200 And so I can't imagine in your line of work being under, you know, not just intense scrutiny, but unfair scrutiny from the peanut gallery, you know, like just your average Joe who doesn't know anything about the police department, but then also the higher paid peanut gallery, a.k.a. the mainstream media, you know, who's really kind of the peanut gallery these days also.

00:05:33.420 But who, you know, are saying, well, why don't why don't you just I saw Wyatt Earp shoot a shoot somebody's gun out of their hand.

00:05:39.980 Why don't why don't police officers aim for the weapon in their hand, you know, and things like that.

00:05:44.640 So do you have any comments on that? I just can only imagine what the frustration you might feel.

00:05:50.020 Well, yes, I do, because it's almost that, you know, people want you to take sides. 0.87

00:05:56.320 You're black, Mark, and you're a cop and you're a pastor. What do you say? 0.78

00:06:03.420 Well, I quickly and hurry to say what's right. What's right. The scriptures you brought in in Proverbs 18, one man thinks he's right until he's cross-examined, and then it's a different matter.

00:06:18.100 And I think the church, the community has done a poor job, especially my community, because again, no matter how much you beat the drum, no matter how much you try to stand, and a lot of times you stand alone, pointing out the truth.

00:06:34.540 um what happened to george floyd uh what i said one thing i said because my my my social media

00:06:42.060 as you said is is business and uh is to serve people in a in a physical way um but i i did

00:06:50.300 speak out because i seen so many people reacting um prematurely uh you know just uh saying this

00:06:57.940 in saying that. And one thing that I wanted to make clear is that George Floyd might not look

00:07:06.280 like you. He might not live where you lived, but he deserved the right, the respect, the care,

00:07:16.320 the love that image bearer of God deserves, as well as Derek Chauvin. And when you put that

00:07:27.160 in there, it's like, wait a minute, stop the press. What do you mean? No, no. The Bible is

00:07:35.660 clear. There is no partiality with God. God shows no respecter of people or persons. And so real

00:07:43.880 justice without the adjectives is God's justice. Just justice is of God, is of truth. And we wait

00:07:52.800 till a matter is heard fully no matter what color you are no matter what economic status you are 0.93

00:07:58.900 and so you you have to look at the matter and it's so tough being um a black man on the police

00:08:07.820 department is like double whammy when people look at you and they question you and they automatically

00:08:13.440 think yes we're together but no no we're not together we're not together in that sense i'm

00:08:19.100 sorry yes i love you uh but but but the truth matters the truth matters facts matters and i

00:08:25.920 can't detach myself from it right and it's and when you say like i'm not with you i i think i

00:08:31.660 can speak for you in this matter and you correct me if i'm wrong but you're you're saying you know

00:08:36.040 if there's if there's another uh you know person uh in the black community who's looking on and

00:08:41.520 you're you know you're investigating some kind of crime or something like that and they're like hey

00:08:44.660 you're with me you know uh you're like no i'm not with you but also i think you would say mark and

00:08:49.640 i'm not with them i'm not i'm not with the black community i'm not with the police i'm with christ

00:08:53.640 i'm with the truth wherever that lands whatever whatever side and and so that's i mean

00:09:00.400 our world is so we've we've there's so much tribalism today we're so polarized we're so

00:09:07.440 divided and uh and everybody's passing out you know everybody's passing out t-shirts or everybody's

00:09:12.540 passing out jerseys you know join our team um get on get on the right side of history get on the

00:09:17.700 right team you know and uh and it's really hard as christians uh to continually say uh no team

00:09:25.420 but christ that's that's the team that's the team that we're on and and all of these all these

00:09:31.140 secondary ways of of finding identity it's not that they don't matter like that you know the

00:09:36.960 bible speaks to secondary identity i was i was talking about this recently on uh with you know

00:09:42.060 with a friend but you know our primary identity there's only only two identities a person can have

00:09:46.620 uh you're either in christ or you're in adam right you're in christ and all the blessings of god are

00:09:52.340 you by virtue of your union with christ by grace through faith in in christ or you're in adam you're

00:09:58.180 a dead man walking you're on death row under the just condemnation of god and if he does not

00:10:02.380 intervene in his salvation then um you're hopeless you're without hope in the world first corinthians

00:10:07.940 15 talks about that so in christ or in adam at a secondary identity level um there's well i would

00:10:14.300 say the next biggest thing is male and female uh genesis 1 27 male and female he made them in his

00:10:21.360 image uh he made them and and then you know further down we might say tertiary it's not that it

00:10:26.880 doesn't matter it does matter um but but beneath gender male and female there's only two genders

00:10:32.440 then we then we would have ethnicity we'd have black white brown asian you know and and down

00:10:37.080 the gambit and that does matter because we do have you know revelations and texts that say

00:10:41.200 from every tribe tongue and nation right that god is you know heaven is going to be ethnically

00:10:46.440 diverse and so that's something that god created something that should be celebrated but what i've

00:10:50.600 noticed in our culture today is you know what ultimately the pagan culture the unbeliever 0.56

00:10:55.660 wants to do is always pervert the truth twist the truth turn things ultimately on their head 0.96

00:11:00.980 right so like god says if you eat of the fruit uh you you shall surely die and satan says you

00:11:05.980 will not die but rather and he doesn't just say god's lying you won't die but he turns it on his

00:11:10.900 head he says not only will you not die you will be like god and so there's always this reversal of

00:11:16.520 upside down flipping things and so in our pagan culture unbelieving culture um we have i think

00:11:22.260 from a biblical worldview we have like top tier identity in christ in adam right then second i

00:11:28.180 think we'd have things like male female and and subcategories from male and female we'd have um

00:11:33.000 a man who is a husband a man who is a father and these are secondary identities that matter because

00:11:38.680 the bible has specific things to say based on which category you fall into if you're a woman

00:11:43.740 the bible has something to say if you're a man the bible has something a lot of similar things but

00:11:48.620 some distinct things also to say to a man uh versus a woman and then if you're a husband or

00:11:54.520 if you're single the bible has different things to say um but then again down the line ethnicity

00:11:59.820 And what our culture, I think, has done is our culture says male and female, that's a distinction, an identity category that doesn't matter at all.

00:12:10.900 Or they'll even go further.

00:12:12.340 Male and female, that's a category that doesn't even exist.

00:12:15.540 Genders doesn't even exist, this binary gender.

00:12:18.960 But then they'll take something that is a biblical category of ethnicity.

00:12:22.940 but but in my assessment in biblical terms of priority um the identity that an individual

00:12:29.140 person gets from being black or white i think um is is inferior to the identity in terms of

00:12:37.300 biblical terms and what the bible has to say of man or woman i think the bible has a lot more to

00:12:42.380 say about if you're a man or a woman and then certainly the most to say about whether you're

00:12:47.700 in Christ or Adam. So in, in Adam or in Christ, man, woman, and then, you know, we could say black,

00:12:54.160 white. And what our culture has done is said, man and woman doesn't matter at all, or it doesn't

00:12:58.240 even exist. Black and white means everything, you know? And so a man, you know, like Caitlyn

00:13:03.740 Jenner, you know, Bruce Jenner, you know, a man can dress up like a woman, but we've seen a couple

00:13:09.600 of times where some white person gets caught trying to, trying to pull off, you know, acting

00:13:13.880 as though they were black and our culture doesn't really like that you know and and so it's just

00:13:18.320 it's just you know and i would say both are wrong but but the problem is we've elevated these kind

00:13:23.120 of tertiary identity categories um as as though they're the end all be all and so there's this

00:13:29.820 extra incentive not just incentive but demand for you know you take a side take a side put on the

00:13:36.740 jersey whose team are you on and so i just i i can't really i can't imagine the pressure that

00:13:42.320 you feel are there a lot of other if i can add are there a lot of other black detectives or

00:13:46.380 police officers where you work in buffalo or do you feel there are uh there there are other um

00:13:53.260 black detectives and officers but uh we would we would be considered the minority uh times two

00:14:00.680 um yeah because just that's just the makeup uh and that and that's a that's a whole nother issue but

00:14:08.180 But there are. There are. And again, the way I think as a Christian man and that's that's my title.

00:14:20.080 You know, all the other titles are secondary, as you just said, because the world, the culture tries to label you, even if you don't want the label.

00:14:31.480 and they push that uh in the media they push that in the university they push that um in the open

00:14:39.420 square and and that's all you hear uh but when once when one uh proclaims and identifies with

00:14:46.800 christ um as uh the ultimate uh you you get so much pushback and and that's people in the church

00:14:57.020 sadly now which we're dealing with uh but of course the world but uh the church that's the

00:15:04.140 sad thing because you're dealing with these issues that the church is supposed to have is

00:15:08.460 supposed to have the answers to put the church supposed to shed light and bring clarity to the

00:15:13.900 truth and you're fighting um you're in fighting uh with friendly fires coming in from all sides

00:15:21.320 about an issue that we're supposed to be in agreement on you know paul said i regard no one

00:15:26.840 according to the flesh and he goes on to talk about we are uh we are new creatures in christ

00:15:34.520 that should matter most yep amen so with with that the church and that you know friendly fire

00:15:41.560 you know where the the church i can't remember who said it but he said um he said the church is

00:15:46.820 one of the only armies he's ever seen the only group of soldiers he's ever seen that shoots its

00:15:52.080 own and sadly and yet at the same time the church is the bride of Christ and Spurgeon says that you

00:15:58.960 know even despite all the faults and all the infighting all those kinds of things Charles

00:16:02.760 Spurgeon said that the church is she it's the sweetest place I know you know and so the church

00:16:07.800 is it is the sweetest place on earth even with all its faults I think Calvin is the one who said that

00:16:13.320 wherever the word of God is rightly preached and the sacraments rightly administered there a church

00:16:18.440 of God exists, even if it swarms with many faults. And so we love the church, but she's rough

00:16:23.740 sometime. And me and you are part of the problem. We're sheep too. We're under shepherds, but we

00:16:29.080 kind of have that dual identity. We're Christ sheep who also are shepherds. And so we make

00:16:33.100 plenty of mistakes. But speaking to your church specifically at a local level, how is your church

00:16:38.740 handling that? With you being a police officer, you being their pastor, you really holding to a

00:16:44.700 not social justice, but biblical justice and a biblical worldview and seeking to apply those

00:16:49.200 things. Is your church with you, I guess? I'm sure plenty of them are. Or do you have,

00:16:55.900 even at a pastoral level, do you have some of those moments with some of those individuals

00:17:00.840 who are kind of buying into the spirit of this age? Well, isn't that the temptation?

00:17:08.240 That's the temptation for us all. Romans 12 said, do not be conformed to this world,

00:17:13.560 but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And that's the emphasis at our church, that we

00:17:19.520 would be transformed and reject, resist conformity to the culture, to stand up and to speak. He has

00:17:30.440 given us his spirit to speak clearly and boldly of not our truth, as the world says, not a tribal

00:17:38.780 truth, not an ethnic truth, but a biblical, Christ-centered truth where he is proclaimed

00:17:47.220 and made much of. And, you know, they know my position, and I try to communicate that position

00:17:59.920 from scripture, but without any other vantage point. As a police officer, I don't separate

00:18:08.240 myself from being a police officer or anything else. I come as a servant of Christ saying,

00:18:17.820 this is what God says. Thus says the Lord about every issue. That includes government. That

00:18:24.880 includes the culture. That includes family. That includes all of our life. And I think,

00:18:31.680 One of the major problems in the church is they have detached Christ from life, and the separation is obvious, and it is damaging where Christ is on the Lord's Day for an hour or two, and then on Bible study and whatever service you come to,

00:18:58.700 But then you scatter and there is no reflection of his authority in our life.

00:19:05.060 And so when things like this come, when things like this threaten the church, we are up in arms and we're questioning or we're giving an ear to these ideologies that are godless and pagan.

00:19:24.080 and it's just plain evil because we cannot recognize the falsehood.

00:19:33.480 Yep, I completely agree, and I think part of it is exactly what you're saying.

00:19:36.780 It's all of Christ for all of life. It's theology applied.

00:19:39.920 That's the point of this show, and it's when our theology is actually lived out.

00:19:46.120 And I think part of the problem is there's a lot of evangelicals today who would, they would quickly salute the Bible as the inerrant word of God.

00:19:56.340 They would absolutely affirm that the Bible is infallible, that it's without error, it's inerrant, that it's eternal, that it's immutable, that it's also fully authoritative.

00:20:07.380 That it's the highest authority in all the universe, that it's absolute, that it's universal, all these kinds of things.

00:20:14.060 objective uh the problem is that that you know something like like social justice comes on the

00:20:21.340 scene or whatever it doesn't even have to be that issue but whatever it is um you leave the lord's

00:20:26.700 day like you're saying you know you leave sunday you leave the church and you go about your life

00:20:31.040 and whether it's in the home or whether it's on the street or in your vocation or in media or

00:20:36.760 whatever it might be with parenting with education and what you know how are we going to school our

00:20:41.300 children all these kinds of things um it's precisely at those points that um we don't

00:20:47.900 question the authority of scripture we we question its relevancy we question the sufficiency of

00:20:53.680 scripture not the authority of scripture but um and and what we think what many christians think

00:20:58.740 is that um it's not that they're saying well i know god has said this but i i just want to do

00:21:03.240 that um right that that happens sometimes we are that rebellious um but but often what i find

00:21:08.820 pastorally is that a lot of times people say i know god says this what does this have anything

00:21:14.300 to do with that yeah they don't they don't see they don't see um affirming saluting god's word

00:21:21.560 here and then and then the way they're living in a particular action over there as a as a blatant

00:21:28.680 contradiction they they don't see how the scripture applies i think that's a big part of the problem

00:21:34.580 So especially with politics, I think a lot of Christians would say the Bible has nothing to say about politics.

00:21:40.540 And really, pastors need to not really be talking about politics or preaching about politics that has no place in the church.

00:21:46.480 And there's this clear line, separation of church and state, which a lot of people misinterpret what that's actually supposed to mean.

00:21:52.720 And if the Bible says anything about politics at all, what do we hear most often?

00:21:57.900 Romans 13, Romans 13, submit to the civil magistrate.

00:22:01.840 And that gets exegeted to mean an unconditional submission to the civil magistrate, even when they might be legislating something that's contrary to God's word.

00:22:12.540 And so there's just so many misnomers and so many misunderstandings about the word at the level of application.

00:22:22.440 I think that's a big part of the problem, so that we see certain things and we just, Christians would be so quick to buy into narratives that are antithetical to the truth of God's Word.

00:22:36.400 And it's not necessarily because of this blatant heart that desires to rebel, because we're speaking of Christians with new hearts that in their inner being they delight in the law of God.

00:22:45.620 It's because in their mind, they have not yet conformed, been transformed rather to the truth of God's word to the degree that they see the connection between God's word says this.

00:22:59.280 And that means on the ground, it means blank.

00:23:04.980 I think it's that ground level Christianity, practical, lived out Christianity that I think a lot of the church is missing.

00:23:13.980 That's good.

00:23:15.620 So that being said, tell me, tell me, tell our listeners a little bit about the story that you shared with me just about your church, because it's a unique story of the church that you currently pastor, where it came from, how it got there. Share that with us.

00:23:27.680 so uh grew up in the church um i'm a i would be a third generation preacher

00:23:34.200 um grew up in my well at a very young age uh started off in my grandfather's church my father

00:23:41.740 um shortly after um started his church um in 1983 um well actually i would say uh 1982 because he

00:23:54.640 started in a house church preaching to drug addicts and drunks. And he grew out of there

00:24:02.720 and bought and purchased a building. In 1983, we went into a building. The church was named

00:24:12.160 Word of Faith. And all the baggage, all the heretical, damaging, dangerous doctrine of that

00:24:21.120 movement came along with it. It wasn't as, I would say, blatant as some of the

00:24:31.460 preachers you hear, but it was still just as deadly. And so, with that said, he started the

00:24:39.280 church in 1983. We purchased a building. Church is flourishing. It's growing. But all the while,

00:24:49.500 it's wrong. It's unbiblical. I mean, it's a seeker-friendly, so to speak, kind of church. 0.93

00:25:00.000 Everything goes. There was not much emphasis on the scriptures and the authority of them,

00:25:08.780 And that as our king and head and our direction.

00:25:13.740 And so by God's grace, my father continued to pastor.

00:25:20.420 And let me add his mercy, because we often, you know, bring up that how merciful God was to allow us to operate in that state.

00:25:33.060 But he knows. He knows. And I know by his great providence that he knew who he called and he knew who he drew out of darkness.

00:25:45.380 And so for years, the church continued, it flourished and grew so much out of that particular building.

00:25:55.440 We built another building. And right not shortly after that, we had success there.

00:26:05.960 And seven years later, I believe, we paid off the mortgage off of a brand new building because people were giving faithful coming, all of that.

00:26:15.380 But something still wasn't right, Joel. Something still wasn't right. We knew that. And I think that's when the Lord started to get my attention, just putting things in my path, you know, starting with, you know, listening to the Bible Answer Man and Hank Hanegraaff.

00:26:34.560 And again, one thing led to another. I got a hold of John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul and the various ones. And I'm like, where is this? Where is this teaching? Where is this teaching? And I'm feeding my father like, Dad, you got to hear this. You got to listen.

00:26:56.240 And so as it would happen, the Lord really convicted us, convicted us.

00:27:03.740 And I would just dig, dig.

00:27:05.220 I read all I can read.

00:27:06.960 I searched all I can, searched.

00:27:09.140 And I began to, again, question my father, you know, gently.

00:27:15.000 And then sometimes it would be vigorous.

00:27:18.300 And we're going at it.

00:27:20.040 And just in the scriptures saying, how is this true?

00:27:22.840 And so that would go on. And then my father and I would have conversations, frequent conversations. And then the Lord opened his eyes. The Lord opened his eyes. There's no other way I can put it.

00:27:38.700 And from that moment on, he committed to the biblical authority and doing things the right way. And he had to announce to the church that we're going in a different direction.

00:27:55.540 And when he said that, Joel, it was done. It was done. You go from a full membership of over 200 people to 50 people.

00:28:08.700 And they just started slowly. Everybody didn't leave at once. Everybody, but they just started slowly going for the door. And it was tough. It was sad. We cried. I know my dad was very, very broken over that.

00:28:28.240 Anytime you, you're, you're, you're shepherding people and you're involved with families and, and then you, you, you have to expose and because you love them, because you love them.

00:28:43.440 That had to be done and it was done.

00:28:45.600 And I think, again, I said, I think two, seven years later, the mortgage was paid off.

00:28:52.640 Thank God, because everybody was gone.

00:28:54.280 so uh we were left there with the mortgage and just a few people but god again was faithful

00:29:01.520 was faithful um and seeing us through as we were reforming um because the reform really started in

00:29:09.440 2002 and then uh you know simple is simple uh uh reformata you know we're we're always reforming

00:29:17.380 but we weren't reforming in the way that uh in the classical sense we were just trying to

00:29:22.920 right some wrongs and be conformed with scripture. And then it's been going on with by God's grace

00:29:31.500 for strong, strong, as we've been in reform and learning and growing. And

00:29:37.740 just last year, well, this is 2021, 2019. But my father asked me to take over as a lead and senior

00:29:49.760 pastor, and I didn't know that was happening when it was happening, but God knew, and now we are

00:29:58.880 grateful, grateful, ever grateful that God has withheld his judgment, and his mercy is so

00:30:11.560 abundant, and it is clear and evident how he has spared us, because every time I think about how

00:30:18.560 we operated what was going on and and any at any time he could have just said no you're done

00:30:27.340 but uh thank god he is a merciful god slow to anger uh slow to wrath i i had the the same kind

00:30:36.020 of experience i know we talked about it you know previously but uh you know i planted a church

00:30:41.960 san diego california about 11 years ago and just it's just not what i should have been doing i

00:30:49.180 wasn't qualified at the time i wasn't meeting the biblical qualifications i wasn't able to teach

00:30:54.260 so both in competency you know if if you took it and you said you know biblical qualifications put

00:30:59.260 them in two categories of competency and character competency able to teach but then also some of the

00:31:04.480 things that often get categorized as character i think i have to do with competency like managing

00:31:08.940 your own household that speaks to the character of a man but it also speaks to a man's competency

00:31:13.340 you know and if he can't manage his own household he has no business managing you know the house of

00:31:18.040 God and so both in terms of character and competency I was not qualified at the time

00:31:23.060 should not have been planting a church and by God's grace you know after about four years

00:31:28.800 at about the four-year mark there was serious reform in the church that ultimately began by

00:31:36.840 by God in His mercy doing serious reform in me and in my heart

00:31:43.740 and through repentance and seeing things in the Word rightly

00:31:49.420 in terms of doctrine, also in terms of holiness.

00:31:53.220 And then all of a sudden it just kind of became,

00:31:55.200 I can think of the steady, reformed and always reforming,

00:32:00.940 like what you were saying, but then it's like the way the Lord does things

00:32:04.420 and the way that he slowly reforms it's fun it's funny because it's like this slow gradual

00:32:08.460 reformation but just like stock investments there are spikes every now and then it's like the lord

00:32:15.360 reveals something you know he's revealing things to you every day as you're following him and

00:32:19.760 serving him and submitting to his word but there are moments where he reveals something big you

00:32:24.360 know and and in those big moments where it calls for serious change right like it's like the lord

00:32:31.300 calls you all over again and i think this is just the christian life you know and you see it in

00:32:36.080 church life you see an individual christian life but it's you're following jesus and along the way

00:32:41.780 you know there's there's daily taking up our cross and following him but there are moments

00:32:47.300 where that cross um is really heavy there are moments where uh that are extra sacrificial right

00:32:54.360 like abraham was following the lord for for quite a while before the lord said and and now i require

00:33:00.680 your son Isaac sacrifice him so you know what I mean like that like I'm sure there were I mean

00:33:06.620 God had already asked him to leave everything that he knew and to go to the place that he

00:33:09.880 would show him and I'm sure there were multiple you know a daily grind of sacrificing

00:33:14.780 current comforts and pleasures and my will ultimately to serve the will of Christ but

00:33:20.860 then there are big kind of monumental moments and so I know I remember for our church and for me

00:33:25.620 there were those those big theological mountains where we you know I just I just couldn't it's

00:33:33.680 like something it's something got you know I just saw something in the word and I couldn't unsee it

00:33:38.380 you know what I mean like like you miss something for years you don't and then you see it and you

00:33:42.400 can't unsee it and then you have to change I mean right then it's like you have a choice you're

00:33:46.820 either going to repent or you're going to harden your heart I remember a big a big one for for us

00:33:52.280 was continuationism versus cessationism.

00:33:57.020 And so I became a cessationist

00:33:59.140 and have been for a few years now.

00:34:00.900 And that was a big one.

00:34:02.580 And so it's like at every step of the way,

00:34:05.300 you're reformed and always reforming.

00:34:08.040 The first, in that 11-year journey for me,

00:34:10.500 the first four years were just like what you're describing,

00:34:13.200 where you can only chalk it up to the slowness of anger,

00:34:17.140 his long suffering on the Lord's part, his mercy.

00:34:20.680 So for the first four years, it's like,

00:34:22.080 i shouldn't have even been doing this over the last you know seven years it was um it was this

00:34:27.580 gradual reformation um being i believe pleasing to the lord the whole time but becoming more and

00:34:33.920 more um formed forged into the image of christ better doctrine better character more love for

00:34:41.040 holiness all those kinds of things but in that seven years there were those milestones right

00:34:46.780 Like those big ticket items, like, okay, we don't believe in speaking in tongues anymore, you know, and some people walk out the door, you know, or I remember when I preached through 1 Timothy, you know, when I preached through 1 Timothy, and typically you get to hard text and you just kind of want to get past it, but I remember just being convicted, and we got to 1 Timothy chapter 2, verse 9 through 15, where it talks about, 1.00

00:35:12.780 i do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man she must remain silent 1.00

00:35:17.240 and you know in verse 15 says you know but women will be saved through childbearing if they continue 1.00

00:35:22.520 with faith you know and it's like that's like let's just get past that and i just i felt convicted

00:35:28.820 and i so i slowed down and i spent four weeks just on those few verses and and you could literally

00:35:34.460 each week that i came back there was a noticeable lack of of people at church like i mean like 10

00:35:41.700 20 people per well not 20 but about 10 people per week for four weeks we lost about 40 people in

00:35:47.440 that month and so anyways all that being said i i commend you i commend your father um you can tell

00:35:54.260 i said this i i just the humility i think that's required um to do something because it's one thing

00:36:00.800 for a young man to reform because really reform we're just talking about changing and in this

00:36:05.460 particular case changing um in accordance with god's word um but but there's a reason why you

00:36:11.300 know we have the old adage you know it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks right i mean the older

00:36:16.880 a person is it's not that god doesn't save the elderly or change or reform the elderly but when

00:36:22.100 a person has been going in a certain direction for a long time i think we could say god ultimately

00:36:26.940 is sovereign he'll save whoever whenever he wants but there is a reason that most conversions happen

00:36:32.960 at in the childhood years or even like maybe young adult college years but but and not to

00:36:40.080 say that your father, this was his conversion. I don't know. But my point is to make a huge

00:36:44.660 reformation and to say, yeah, the direction I was going was wrong. I'm going to repent. It's

00:36:50.000 going to be costly. And I'm ultimately later on going to hand it over to my son. All that I think

00:36:56.040 is just incredibly honorable. I know a little bit of what that's like. We didn't go from 200 to 50.

00:37:02.040 that but my hat is off to you and your dad for for doing whatever it took to be ultimately to

00:37:10.700 to love the glory that comes from God more than the glory that comes from them so good on you

00:37:16.620 for that so anything else you want to share about just being a pastor and and what that's like

00:37:22.060 Well, it's a tall task, but I do enjoy serving the people of God. I do enjoy serving the people of God because I watch my dad. One thing, out of the things he's admitted and repented of, he did a lot of things right.

00:37:45.260 And I've seen how he served the people. I've seen how he studied. He is a masterful wordsmith in the word of God, can quote large portions of scripture.

00:38:00.760 And I gained that love of the scriptures from my father, because, you know, just quoting from it's nothing like quoting the scriptures from memory and having it come out of hiding at the right at the right times.

00:38:18.640 And so I love teaching that to the people and teaching them to love the word of God, because loving the word of God means loving Christ.

00:38:31.080 And so now with this right understanding and this reforming to this authority that's higher than anything and which should guide us and be our light, this is our goal.

00:38:49.300 This is my goal is to create a love for the glory of Jesus Christ in our people.

00:38:55.220 and uh we are on a a path of uh of feeding the confessions and catechisms and uh we're going

00:39:04.840 through all of that i had a a dear sister come to me yeah after the study of the scriptures the

00:39:11.480 other night and said uh pastor it's this is what i've been looking for this is what this is this

00:39:19.100 is what we need. And that just, I mean, it just melted my heart because even though I know what

00:39:25.680 the scripture says, I know what I'm supposed to be doing, that confirmation from the flock,

00:39:31.380 the confirmation from the people that you are feeding is just, it's second to none. And I just

00:39:39.080 praise God for that. So pastoring is an all-day, everyday grind, as you may mention of. But

00:39:52.640 I do love seeing people grow from this point to this point and grasp the understanding of the

00:40:04.420 word so with that all day grind everything you said beautiful i agree wholeheartedly but with

00:40:11.360 that all day grind because i completely agree being a pastor is just you're always on the clock

00:40:16.020 now that doesn't mean you're always working pastors sleep pastors get to hang out with their

00:40:19.360 wives and their kids and all that kind of so i don't want to make it sound miserable but but

00:40:22.780 faithful pastors uh work hard and they're always it's 24 7 in the sense that they're always on

00:40:28.600 call for the sheep there's there's always a sense that um if the sheep are in trouble

00:40:33.460 right the pastor he gets out of bed and he goes and he helps the sheep that's the difference

00:40:38.060 john chapter 10 between you know the shepherd and the hired hand right the hired hand stays in bed

00:40:43.260 you know as a sheep is getting ripped apart by a bear or a wolf you know and uh but but the pastor

00:40:48.920 gets out of bed he goes and he takes his staff and he puts his life on the line and he tries to

00:40:53.280 defend the sheep and so it is a full-time endeavor so with that being said what's it like this is

00:41:00.580 kind of my next question with your pastoral ministry. What's it like being bivocational?

00:41:04.740 What's it like having, because it's not just bivocational in the sense that you're, you know,

00:41:08.280 you work a, you know, punch in, punch out 40 hour a week job, you know, and then go pastor,

00:41:13.060 but you're working another, another vocation that is also, I can only imagine fairly demanding.

00:41:20.380 So what, what is that like? Well, prioritizing and really narrowing down what really

00:41:30.500 matters. My life at home has been totally rearranged. My wife is so wonderful with

00:41:41.600 our children and scheduling and things of that nature and keeping the home intact where

00:41:49.580 our time is basically planned and scheduled and things of that nature. No time for television.

00:41:58.700 I think television has been just dwindling, dwindling down to nothing.

00:42:04.300 You know, the TV is not on through the week and we'll allow the kids to watch it on the weekend or whatever, you know, for a little bit.

00:42:12.580 But there's so much to do, Joe. There's so much to do. There's so much to read.

00:42:17.280 There's so much to prepare for. You know, you mentioned taking care of the sheep in the middle of the night.

00:42:25.640 We have one elder right now in the hospital right now. If you can keep in your prayers, Elder Cyrus Hines. He's a dear brother that's been with us, and he suffered a stroke, and we've been visiting in the hospital, taking care of whatever he wants me to do and the things of that nature.

00:42:50.560 And again, with the reform and things like that, preparing for, we're preparing for a walk at our local, it's called Compass Care. This Saturday is a walk for their services is erasing the need for abortion.

00:43:09.820 And so our church is preparing for that. We're trying to get the word out for that. We're trying to be in touch with the community. And there's always something to do. And that issue in itself is a tall task.

00:43:27.340 So, again, working, my vocational job, yes, it's demanding, but I love it. I'm in a position now as a detective where I can slow down a little bit, where I'm not on the beat in patrol, where now I'm doing investigations and things of that nature.

00:43:48.680 So it's it's it's good. It's good. I'm in a good place. I'm in a good place so I can balance until the Lord takes me off of the job totally so I can devote myself to full time pastoring.

00:44:06.260 And that and that is your desire, because I will definitely be praying for that. I didn't ask you that previously.

00:44:10.640 But is that what you would like to do is is vocational ministry?

00:44:14.340 it it's it most certainly is it most certainly is praise god i think that's great um okay so

00:44:22.520 we've talked about your church we've talked a little bit about policing we've talked about

00:44:26.680 your family and your five kids being a husband um towards the end of the show here last thing

00:44:33.200 kind of going back to the police department going back to some of the some of the crazy rhetoric and

00:44:38.720 some of those big, you know, hot button issues in our culture today, Black Lives Matter, those

00:44:44.420 kinds of things. Recently, and I told you ahead of time, I was going to ask you about this. And so

00:44:50.420 hopefully, hopefully you're not caught off guard. But recently, there was a, there was some, some

00:44:56.160 infamous tweets, or at least one from LeBron James, great at basketball, very poor in my assessment

00:45:05.840 at social commentary.

00:45:08.040 I think he needs to just keep dunking a basketball

00:45:12.880 in a goal, and he'll do just fine.

00:45:15.620 But he likes to get involved

00:45:17.080 and give his two cents from time to time.

00:45:18.880 And his two cents, I wish he'd just keep it in his pocket.

00:45:22.980 So anyways, he tweeted out,

00:45:25.380 and this was the tweet that I'm referencing,

00:45:27.460 this specific one.

00:45:28.460 He's fairly vocal from time to time.

00:45:30.440 But this is the most recent one that I can think of.

00:45:32.580 He said, you're next, hashtag accountability.

00:45:35.840 They had a picture of the police officer, I believe it's the police officer, who shot Micaiah Bryant, who is the young black woman who, as far as we know from the body cam footage, you know, but we should say just, you know, because one is thought right until another cross examines him.

00:45:52.380 So we should use the legal terminology, the one, this black, young black woman who allegedly, so we'll say allegedly, was attempting to stab with a knife another young black woman.

00:46:04.740 and so anyway so that was that was that was news that that you know uh it's very polarizing and

00:46:12.160 you know people lebron is a saint saint lebron and then other people saying well wait wait a second

00:46:17.240 man black lives matter like this police officer technically as far as we know was saving a black

00:46:23.180 life namely the girl who was going to be stabbed by another girl do you have any thoughts on that

00:46:29.660 what you know if if lebron being as respectful as possible if lebron was sitting here you know

00:46:34.300 in this video chat with us in this recording, what would you say to him?

00:46:39.680 How do you feel about the subject?

00:46:42.500 Well, I want to be gracious, of course, to the young man.

00:46:49.900 With his influence and his platform, the good he could do,

00:46:54.880 the change he can make is so great and is so sad, Joel,

00:47:03.460 that he is using it for filthy lucre to use the old term uh king james version term i mean um 0.86

00:47:12.380 to to to be that irresponsible to be that irresponsible black lives he wore the shirt 0.85

00:47:20.700 he wore the shirt um he's uh you know he's pumping the fists and protests um but 0.96

00:47:29.260 it's he's not um lining up with what he is what he he claims to fight for he's not lining up his

00:47:42.420 speech is not lining up when when you critique a police officer that has seconds to make a decision

00:47:51.560 and you have no idea of the circumstances or the facts and you come out so quickly

00:47:59.660 and again irresponsibly it is so damaging because you have the ear of so many young people you have

00:48:09.820 the ear of so many of the culture young and old you have fans of all ages listening to you and

00:48:17.860 and they pay attention to what you're saying and now you are putting in jeopardy and danger the

00:48:24.920 life of of everyone when you say or when you put out that kind of rhetoric and and and even this

00:48:32.980 is not the first time he's tweeted i believe in 2020 he's tweeted something like you know the

00:48:38.260 police are hunting us down every day something to that matter it was just grossly irresponsible

00:48:44.000 And you know that's not true. And I think he added, every time we step out of the homes, LeBron, please, out of your home, every time you step out of your home, they're, I mean, that's just so hypocritical. 0.81

00:48:58.480 And it is dangerous, though. And then you have the echoing of other athletes and actors and entertainers advising people to resist the police. You know, you just put not only that person and that police, but everybody that can suffer from that interaction in danger.

00:49:20.600 And so for LeBron to continue to talk about, and then he uses accountability. There's no accountability because if there was, you would not have tweeted that tweet. And, you know, you just continue to use your platform for bad as opposed to what you could be using it for.

00:49:39.720 And I just think it's just grossly unfortunate that he would say what he said and then put, you know, blast that, that officer putting his picture there and all of that. And again, as you mentioned, we forget to, we forget to see that he saved a life.

00:49:56.760 He actually saved a life. I mean, I can't imagine that he wanted him not to shoot the young lady and let her get stabbed to death by the other young lady.

00:50:17.780 But it's just, again, it's unfortunate. And I wish he would not, you know, if you're going to voice your opinion, don't use it as a weapon. Don't use it as a weapon, as a divisive tool, because that's what I think ultimately he's doing.

00:50:40.500 he's he's doing and he's creating an unbelievable danger an unbelievable danger when you when you

00:50:48.140 say the police are hunting us down when you say you're next that you know people that are people

00:50:55.220 that are not um thinking will act on those words well they will act on those words you know

00:51:06.800 Oh, absolutely. And then I don't think and I don't believe that that's what he wants. But the careless tweets will that will be the result of it for sure.

00:51:18.960 Yeah, I was going to ask you. That's really good. I was going to ask you in that light, you know, you said two things. You said it's hypocritical, and I completely agree with you, and I think that's palpable. I think the hypocrisy of, you know, not just to pick on LeBron, but anybody in the limelight, in the spotlight, you know, to say something like, you know, like the moment we step out of our homes.

00:51:42.780 it's like like you step out of your home how much does your home cost you probably have private

00:51:46.740 security you know all these like so it's hypocritical that that's clear but i like that

00:51:51.320 you said mark you said you know it's also irresponsible and i and i just wanted to kind

00:51:55.860 of ask and it sounds like you're already saying this but i wanted to ask you in terms of um

00:51:59.360 in terms of that irresponsibility of putting the picture right it's one thing the social

00:52:04.700 commentary you know and for it to be hypocritical and backwards and upside down and just untrue

00:52:09.180 um as far as we can tell um but but for it to be irresponsible putting the picture of the police

00:52:14.960 officer and i wanted to ask you from you know somebody who serves on the force um from from

00:52:20.320 your kind of talk some inside baseball here that with that police officer would he is he does that

00:52:27.660 actually would that put him in physical danger because i would i would imagine it would absolutely

00:52:33.080 So oftentimes, now you see the movements, Black Lives Matter, Antifa, the various people that hate the police, that yell, defund the police, and all of those types of things.

00:52:50.300 They're on a mission to destroy officers, especially those that are in the limelight.

00:52:58.580 And so now when you have someone of LeBron's status putting a pitcher there, and I'm not sure if he put the name, but the name was out there already.

00:53:10.780 So I'm sure that's not hard to get.

00:53:15.380 But now you have people capitalizing on that and going after, searching, and, you know, they show up at your job.

00:53:24.360 They show up at your house.

00:53:25.400 They'll show up in your neighborhood.

00:53:26.840 Yes, he's in danger. Yes, he's in danger for putting his name on blast and putting his picture there. Because again, the crazies, for lack of a better word, those that have no sense and no care for life, they will act on that.

00:53:50.000 And so, yes, absolutely, without a doubt, he would be in danger for doing something like that.

00:53:55.420 And I believe that's why the suit, I believe he's suing him for that very reason or one among them.

00:54:04.420 Good. Yeah, it just makes me think, you know, maybe we can wrap up with this, but it just, it makes me think of James chapter one, verse 19.

00:54:14.440 Well, we could do 19, verse 19 through 21. It says this,

00:54:18.120 Know this, my beloved brothers, let every person be quick to listen or to hear and slow to speak and slow.

00:54:27.320 And it's pretty interesting how speaking and anger are listed side by side, slow to speak and slow to anger as though one produces the other.

00:54:39.120 Verse 20 now says, for the anger of man, a fleshly carnal anger, not a righteous indignation that a Christian man might have from time to time, but the fleshly carnal anger of man does not produce the righteousness or the holiness of God.

00:54:55.040 Therefore, because of that truth, man's anger doesn't produce God's righteousness.

00:55:01.440 Let us put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word which is able to save your souls.

00:55:09.540 And I think of the way you started answering my question in terms of LeBron James and that particular tweet.

00:55:16.220 You used the old King James.

00:55:18.380 What did you say?

00:55:19.100 What was the term you used?

00:55:20.440 Filthy lucre.

00:55:22.080 Yeah, there it is.

00:55:23.420 And so I just think of filthiness, filthy lucre, all of that.

00:55:28.240 I think you nailed it.

00:55:29.520 That's exactly, precisely what it is.

00:55:31.340 And I think part of it is it's the kind of language that we could say the nature, the quality of language, filthy lucre.

00:55:38.240 And that's what James chapter 1 gets to at the end of those three verses in verse 21. 0.80

00:55:43.960 What it starts with in verse 19 is that it's not just the quality or the nature of the language, that it's filthy, that it's vile, that it's ignorant.

00:55:53.420 but it starts in verse 19 by saying it's it's rash it's too quick it's too quick you're quick

00:56:00.360 to speak um but but you should be quick to listen quick to hear uh quick to research what we might

00:56:08.760 say quick to study quick to think quick you know all those kinds of things and slow to speak and

00:56:16.040 i think i think in our world with with celebrities and then not just celebrity because there was a

00:56:22.860 time where there were celebrities but a celebrity would have to go you know they'd have to go to

00:56:27.020 some journalist you know they'd have to go you know they'd have to go to some kind of public

00:56:30.360 event you know where there were news you know news anchors or news reporters and things like

00:56:34.580 that some kind of press event but now you know i mean that was the whole thing with trump you know

00:56:39.520 like i i appreciated a lot of his policies um but man his his twitter account got him in trouble

00:56:45.160 um fairly often and and part of it was just the fact that you know the president is gonna is gonna

00:56:50.900 to be making public addresses quite often but and and that's just historically that's always been

00:56:57.460 the case but even more so when when that president uh doesn't need to go to the press he doesn't have

00:57:03.460 to call a press conference or anything like that he doesn't have to get the cameras ready he doesn't

00:57:07.060 have to put on the makeup he can literally he can be three in the morning and you know president

00:57:11.580 trump's rolling over in bed and an idea just popped in my head i think i'll i'll just shoot

00:57:16.660 it out there to you know 40 million people on twitter and it's like well that's i wish you

00:57:21.640 wouldn't you know i prefer you just why don't you just sit on that you know just just why don't you

00:57:25.600 sleep on that one let it marinate a little bit and so my whole point is just to say it's always

00:57:30.280 been biblically true that um that we should be quick to listen and slow to speak because a quickness

00:57:37.780 in speech lends towards a quickness um quick speech lends towards quick anger and and and man's

00:57:45.320 quick hot anger does not produce the righteousness of god and so um so that's always been true

00:57:52.420 biblically um but now with with just monumental celebrities coupled with social media and and

00:58:03.360 an iphone in their pocket and all in technology it's just um the temptation to speak immediately

00:58:10.760 is before all of us all of us and that includes you and i that includes christians and pastors i

00:58:17.160 mean as a pastor there have been some times where there's a current event and i'm thinking

00:58:20.340 i want to do a podcast on this like we're doing right now you know or uh where it's this the

00:58:25.700 lord's day is coming something happens on saturday night it's a it's a global you know i mean or at

00:58:31.200 least national event and it's like i i gotta say something on this and i think all of us just feel

00:58:37.800 whether you're a pastor whether you're a christian whether you're lebron james whoever you are

00:58:41.100 um all of us feel the kind of urgency that used to only a news reporter would feel you know what

00:58:48.760 i mean and now it's like all of us fancy ourselves to be kind of like like you know private detectives

00:58:55.020 and and you know news reporters and we all have to you know what's your statement why haven't you

00:58:59.160 made a statement why don't you put a black square on your on your facebook page why don't you say

00:59:03.300 something why don't you know and it's like man you know what like i don't think the bible really

00:59:07.620 i don't think the bible advocates for that as a christian i feel like the bible often says

00:59:11.960 why don't you not say something why don't you wait at least a few days at least let a week go by

00:59:18.400 think about this pray about this let's see if some more things come to light before we cast because

00:59:24.040 ultimately our statements is is our casting of judgment and i think that's what that's what's

00:59:29.300 frustrating and i see guys like lebron casting a hypocritical and irresponsible judgment because

00:59:36.640 that's what it is it's a judgment and in some sense it's a hit it's putting out a hit on on

00:59:41.440 that that police officer but i have to look inward and i think you'll agree with it i have to look

00:59:46.320 inward at the end of the day and think man like i don't have millions of fans i'm not nearly as

00:59:53.280 popular as LeBron James, but I've got a few people who follow me. And how often am I tempted

00:59:59.760 to make that statement about the big hot button issue that just happened less than 24 hours ago

01:00:07.000 because I want to be seen. I want to be heard. I love the glory that comes from men rather than

01:00:13.760 the glory that comes from God. And there is a sense of urgency. People are demanding an answer.

01:00:19.180 They want to know, what does John MacArthur think about blank?

01:00:23.440 You know, what is John Piper going to say about, but I think if we're wise, the Bible

01:00:30.000 has answers to these things, and biblically faithful men will be able to find those answers.

01:00:35.300 But sometimes they can't find them in three hours, and sometimes they don't fit into 140

01:00:42.140 characters on a tweet.

01:00:44.520 You know what I mean?

01:00:45.560 Sometimes it's, yeah, the Bible does address this.

01:00:49.180 And I'll get back to you in a week.

01:00:51.220 And that's just going to have to be sufficient.

01:00:53.440 Because the Bible commands that I'm slow to speak and slow to anger.

01:00:57.940 And the quick answers and quick statements and rash judgments,

01:01:01.900 it produces the anger of man that doesn't lead towards the righteousness of God.

01:01:08.600 I'll give you the floor as we close out here.

01:01:11.320 Do you have any final thoughts or anything you want to share?

01:01:13.980 Well, again, I appreciate the opportunity to be with you, Joel. It's been a joy just to get to know you, man. And I look forward to many more encounters and conversations.

01:01:25.820 But as we depart, I just want people, as I said, I want to be gracious to LeBron because he needs to know the Lord.

01:01:35.800 He needs to be saved. And he has such an influence on people that, again, as I said, I wish he would not have said it.

01:01:45.300 But as you just said so rightly, that we need to look in, we need to look in, consider ourselves in all these matters.

01:01:54.760 and continue to stand for the truth and be ready with an answer to answer the culture,

01:02:02.780 to reject the ways. As Deuteronomy says, be careful, be careful in how you live and be

01:02:10.040 careful that you don't forget God. I love what John MacArthur says about the culture. He says,

01:02:15.880 be an expert in your Bible and you'll know how to answer the culture. And as we're departing,

01:02:23.460 And I just want the listeners to know that, again, whatever is coming up, the Bible is the word of God and is the answer for everything, every ideology, every argument, everything that's coming our way, the word of God is sufficient.

01:02:41.340 Every major battle, as a matter of fact, when Jesus Christ was tempted, the three words that came out of his mouth's furth is, it is written.

01:02:51.220 And how much more we, the people of God, will battle against Satan, will battle against the culture and the society with, it is written.

01:03:00.280 It is still sufficient.

01:03:01.920 It is still powerful.

01:03:03.760 It's still sharper than any two-edged sword.

01:03:06.000 And so with that said, I want the people to know that we know that we will win. The church will win, no matter how bad. I know John Owen says that, yeah, we'll suffer decay and we'll have some decline, but no one will overtake the kingdom of God.

01:03:29.780 No one will ultimately overtake the kingdom of God. And so I am encouraged with that, that God is not only enough. He is all. He is all. And so I praise God. I praise God for this opportunity. I praise God for you. So thank you. Thank you.

01:03:49.620 Thanks, Mark. I appreciate it. I'm grateful for you as well. And I look forward to continuing a friendship and having you back on the show, Lord willing, sometime soon. So thanks for coming on.

01:04:00.600 Absolutely.

01:04:02.040 As a special thank you for your gift of any amount,

01:04:04.720 we'll be happy to send you a free digital book from our store.

01:04:07.940 To access this offer, visit rightresponseministries.com slash offer.

01:04:12.740 We highly recommend Pastor Joel's book, Am I Truly Saved?

01:04:16.400 If you or someone you know has wrestled with doubts about the love of God,

01:04:20.180 this would be a great resource.

01:04:22.160 As a reminder, to get this offer, go to rightresponseministries.com slash offer.

01:04:26.480 And thank you for your generous support.

01:04:29.780 Thank you.

The NXR Podcast - May 05, 2021

THEOLOGY APPLIED - #ACCOUNTABILITY For LeBron James

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