00:00:00.000Alright, listen guys, I get it. Many of you are unable to financially support this ministry because you're spending your cash and your lives on raising young children in the fear and admonition of the Lord. Praise God for you and that endeavor.
00:02:29.060I had read a lot of the works out there on feminism, especially egalitarianism within the church, and I think I was just dissatisfied with a lot of the literature.
00:02:44.460I mean, there's some good books that I would recommend, but I basically tried to write a book that I thought filled the gap and would be a good resource for Christians, pastors, and laymen alike.
00:02:59.060And covering not only feminism, but really digging into the scripture texts on relevant
00:03:47.020Now, I think he said, you heard me say, bring me a lot of eggs.
00:03:51.780But what I said is bring me all of your eggs.1.00
00:03:54.600And so the meme is a picture of Ron Swanson and he says, feminism is bad. And he says, now, wait,
00:04:00.060wait, wait. I think what you heard is that second and third wave feminism is bad. But what I said is1.00
00:04:06.580feminism is bad. All of it, all of it. And so anyway, so all that being said, that's one of1.00
00:04:13.220the things that you cover in the book that I found insightful. Tell our listeners a little bit about
00:04:18.040first wave feminism, how it relates to second wave and third wave and how those egalitarian
00:04:24.500you know just unbiblical roots were were in this movement from the very beginning
00:04:30.440yeah well it's uh it's common for christians especially to say uh that you know second
00:04:39.640second wave feminism 1960s and 70s uh was was a problem and that that's really the source of
00:04:48.160feminism today in the church. But I think that's mistaken. And I think first wave feminism,
00:04:57.320which began in the mid 1800s, really was the basis for second wave feminism. I don't think
00:05:05.660you would have had second wave feminism without the first. There's a connection there built off1.00
00:05:11.320of it. And I know a lot of people say, well, how can you have a problem with first wave feminism?1.00
00:05:15.940It's just, you know, giving women the right to vote and property rights and all these things.0.79
00:05:20.500And I think the problem with it was that at its root, first wave feminism was rebellion against male headship.0.58
00:05:33.560Yeah. And splitting the household.1.00
00:05:37.500Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is, you know, when you think about a woman having the right to vote,0.99
00:05:43.120That in and of itself doesn't seem like a problem or a bad thing, but it's the fact that men represented their families, their wives, in the voting booth.0.74
00:05:55.300And so that was taken away with women's suffrage.
00:06:01.720And so now you have it where women can and often do vote against their husbands.
00:06:06.980And I think that's, of course, a bad thing.
00:06:10.300I mean, if you're voting the same way, you could say you're having, you know, two votes for the same candidate.
00:06:15.200But so so it's just a it's a really a philosophical problem in that it's it's undercutting male headship in the home.
00:06:22.820And when you read the advocates of first wave feminism, Elizabeth Cady Stanton being, you know, one of the most prominent, but also the most radical.
00:06:34.220and you read her words i mean she's saying we want uh not just the right to vote but we want
00:06:43.900something basically uh kin to no-fault divorce right uh and that's that's long before you know
00:06:53.220it's like 100 years before it actually came about in the united states um she's saying we want equal
00:06:58.260rights in the church i mean you know i have i include some quotes in the book on this and so0.93
00:07:04.340um yeah this this was not just a limited movement about voting first wave feminism was very much
00:07:11.940wrapped up with really a a revolution a rebellion against god's design for men and women in
00:07:20.660particularly the household yeah definitely um you know today i you know so i've said a couple
00:07:26.660times online that I would be for repealing the 19th Amendment. But I think it's worth clarifying
00:07:34.800my position. My wife votes, and she votes because the household vote has been, I believe, a sinful
00:07:42.020decision, namely the 19th Amendment. The household vote has been split. It's been divided.
00:07:48.920And so my wife, she votes with me, alongside me, under my headship, so that we get a full household
00:07:55.260vote because really what women's suffrage did is it took my vote and cut it in half and so i in the
00:08:01.620name of you know one of the things that like with young guys that i'm always trying to you know to
00:08:06.240keep in check is um idealism you know just some young guys they're ideologues right so they they
00:08:12.840hear about something like patriarchy and they read one you know article on it and yeah i'm
00:08:17.580patriarchal you know and they and but they um they're just they're losers like and i mean that
00:08:23.360in the functional sense. They can't win. They're not successful, right? I'm talking about single
00:08:28.720guys. They can't even get married or have kids. They're fluctuating in and out of different0.91
00:08:34.840careers. And so they're like, hey, it's not glorifying to God for women to vote. And I'm1.00
00:08:40.600saying, hey, I think we should repeal the 19th Amendment. That's going to take time to get there.0.69
00:08:45.300That's the right decision. But what do Christian women do in the meantime? Well, I think Christian1.00
00:08:49.220married women should uh should supplement their husband so that they get a full household vote0.98
00:08:53.940they should submit to their husband his leadership and vote alongside him so all that being said for
00:08:58.740anybody who's listening saying you don't think so you're saying that christian women shouldn't vote
00:09:02.020no i'm saying christian women should vote alongside with their husbands if they're single they should
00:09:06.720vote alongside with their pastors if they are their their fathers and if they have an estranged
00:09:12.280relationship with their father their father's an unbeliever and they're not married then they should
00:09:16.080seek counsel from their elders, and their elders, if they're solid biblical men, should be willing
00:09:20.880to apply the scripture even to the realm of politics and give counsel about which principles
00:09:26.140to vote. You can do that without endorsing a candidate, which even that I'd be fine with,
00:09:30.260but you don't have to say a specific guy. You can just say, okay, well, theft is sin. Civil
00:09:35.140theft is still sin, so socialism is out. It's not that hard, and real quick, you can figure out what
00:09:41.720to do. So anyways, I'm pro-Christian women voting in the meantime, because I want to win the war.0.97
00:09:48.400I don't want to be an ideologue who's just constantly losing everything. But I do think0.75
00:09:53.620that in theory, and I think you do too from reading your book, that that was a sinful decision
00:09:57.980that was usurping a husband's authority. And it was just against the main principle that we've
00:10:03.240always believed in our nation, which is it's not just a raw democracy, it's a representative
00:10:08.180government. We have a representative republic, a constitutional republic. And so the idea that
00:10:14.620we would have legislators who represent us, that's the same principle as having a husband
00:10:19.740or a father that represents wives and daughters and sons. The smallest unit in our nation is not
00:10:29.680supposed to be individuals. It should be households. Would you agree with that, Zach?0.58
00:10:34.120anything you would add to that yeah absolutely i think that's um that's right is god deals with
00:10:42.220households and um you know you you see you see this in scripture he doesn't just just deal with
00:10:49.660individuals obviously we will be judged before him as individuals right um but the the concept
00:10:56.200of the household is all throughout the bible um and you see male headship uh of course in the new
00:11:02.620Testament, Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, other passages. Also in the Old Covenant, comes up
00:11:10.380some in the Book of Numbers, chapter 5 and chapter 30 there. And I also argue the creation account,
00:11:16.860of course. So that's how God deals with people. And he designed male headship for
00:11:24.460the good of everyone, men and women and children. And so I think that has to have some
00:11:30.860application to the civil sphere. And it used to, I mean, it used to be treated that way. I mean,
00:11:40.160male headship was recognized. I think, yeah, when you criticize first wave feminism or just
00:11:49.440universal suffrage in general, you know, it's a very unpopular thing to say, but very politically
00:11:56.640incorrect, but, you know, I really just have one chapter, the first chapter in the book
00:12:01.800on that. And part of my goal there was to expose people to the truth about first wave feminism.
00:12:10.860And I get, I give a lot of quotes from some of these leaders so that you can just read it
00:12:15.240yourself. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm with you. I'm not trying to say we should, uh, or that we're even
00:12:22.200a position right now to right to be overly idealistic yeah but we shouldn't be overly
00:12:27.400overly idealistic as a pastor i'm not saying to women in my church hey you shouldn't vote i'm
00:12:32.180saying you should vote righteously and you should vote um in in the spirit of voting righteously
00:12:37.740you should be voting in line with your husbands but absolutely yeah we can't evangelicals can't
00:12:42.960afford to uh to cut our vote in half um in in an ideologue principle uh we're evangelicals are
00:12:49.580already too good at losing. We don't need any help at losing worse. But we're speaking in
00:12:55.580principle of what would be right. And so we're saying that the national... So if there was
00:12:59.780something... For instance, if I had an opportunity to vote to repeal the 19th Amendment, here's the
00:13:05.320irony. I and my wife would vote for that. She would. And not just because I told her to, but0.68
00:13:11.740she shares that conviction because I've washed her in the word. I've discipled her. I've been
00:13:16.560leading her. She trusts me. She trusts the scripture. So we would both, me and my wife
00:13:21.480would be voting to repeal the 19th amendment until it's repealed though. She's going to be0.89
00:13:26.220voting on every other issue alongside me as I seek to lead us in following the scripture and
00:13:33.200applying the whole counsel of God to the whole human life. So could you do this for us just so
00:13:38.420some of our listeners and even me, it's always a helpful refresher. What are some of the key
00:13:43.360distinctions between first wave, second wave, third wave, and I guess now fourth wave transing
00:13:50.400kids, whatever we're on now, but particularly first, second, and third wave feminism, what are
00:13:56.860the key distinctions between, what are the differences? Well, first wave feminism was1.00
00:14:03.280primarily concerned with legal equality, and the emphasis was on voting. I mean, there were some0.68
00:14:11.100other issues that came up. But that was the focus, though there were other things at play
00:14:17.600that I mentioned. That was the mid-1800s, and the 19th Amendment, I think it went into
00:14:27.240effect in 1920, if I'm not mistaken. And so it's another 40 plus years when you have
00:14:38.900second wave feminism, 1960s and 70s. And that was really more of a social movement. And I mean,0.99
00:14:49.740you had some legal aspects. I mean, you had the push for the Equal Rights Amendment,
00:14:56.340which actually failed, but they ended up implementing all of this in the courts anyway.0.99
00:15:01.000and uh that had to do with i mean even getting rid of well they ended up getting rid of women's
00:15:10.180colleges uh as far as the funding state funding because that's not equal i mean so1.00
00:15:15.640um i mean there's a lot of details there but most people know second wave feminism for0.98
00:15:21.080the social aspect it's tied with sexual liberation and the sexual revolution and uh you know so you0.79
00:15:29.080have Gloria Steinem and some of those other leaders. So this is like the sixties, right?
00:15:34.000Yeah. Yeah. And so the way I really characterize that is they were pushing for men, uh, or sorry,
00:15:39.680women to leave the home. So, and especially to take on careers like men outside the home. So
00:15:48.300that's how I like to characterize that is, uh, it's obviously much more radical than first wave1.00
00:15:54.280feminism, but I would argue the seeds of it were there before. Um, and so that's really what we're1.00
00:16:00.200living with today is, is women having the mindset, um, that what they're not valuable, uh, they're1.00
00:16:08.900not doing something productive in society unless they're out working a job, you know, 40 hours a1.00
00:16:14.700week. And that's, uh, I mean, that's contrary to scripture, of course. Um, and, and I argue the
00:16:22.880Bible doesn't prohibit women from working outside the home, but there is an emphasis on duties that0.99
00:16:28.940revolve around the home. And so that if they're doing those, having, you know, they're married,0.98
00:16:34.320having children, raising their children, that doesn't really leave a lot of time or energy
00:16:39.740to work much outside the home. And I realize this gets into also controversial territory, but
00:16:46.120I think it's important that we understand the background of feminism that has led to this
00:16:52.820situation. And of course you mentioned third wave feminism. Yeah. I don't even know what
00:16:57.020they always call it today, but it, it, it keeps, um, getting even more radical. It's,
00:17:03.180it's tied with homosexuality and, uh, you know, it's kind of, I guess you could say the seeds
00:17:08.600were there in second wave feminism and that if, uh, uh, a woman doesn't need a man or if she can
00:17:14.740be this independent woman, then if you're really consistent with that, then she's not even going
00:17:21.180need a man at all and then she's maybe a lesbian or something like that so um that's yeah that's
00:17:28.220where we are now dealing with transgenderism and all that stuff right and i think a lot of you know0.91
00:17:32.380the homosexuality um all the lgbt jihad craziness has come out of um the the sameness aspect that0.94
00:17:40.700egalitarianism it's not just equality but it's it's androgyny it's it's sameness and so like you1.00
00:17:46.380you know, like the, you know, the push for the pill, you know, the hormonal birth control pill,
00:17:53.180which has abortive risk involved in it. And Christians need to be aware of those kinds of
00:17:58.980things. But, you know, the push for that was basically if women can't have control, if they1.00
00:18:05.740don't have complete control over their reproductive process and whether or not they're pregnant and
00:18:12.080these kinds of things, then they're not equal to men because they're not the same as men, right?0.90
00:18:17.400So to be the same as a man, I have to, you know, a man can't get pregnant. A man's never, his career0.90
00:18:22.640is never interrupted for nine months with a pregnancy, you know? And so we'll never really0.74
00:18:27.260be equal to men unless we're exactly the same as men. And to be exactly the same as men,
00:18:32.520that involves everything from, you know, short haircuts and wearing, you know, I mean, you even0.72
00:18:37.740see like the dress changes with women. We're not wearing dresses, we're wearing business suits,0.66
00:18:41.760You know, and so the way we look, the way we dress, all the way down to abortion and the fact that we kill our children, you know, all coming out of this egalitarian, you know, equality.
00:18:54.000But it's not just equality, it's sameness.
00:18:56.500And that's one of the things you did really well, I think, in the book is just drawing the distinction between there's a distinction between equality of value versus sameness in terms of function and role and hierarchical authority.
00:19:10.520Could you talk a little bit about that?
00:19:13.900Yeah, I think that's right on what you said regarding equality.
00:19:20.320I mean, that's obviously the root word there with egalitarianism is, you know, this really it's a philosophy, a worldview that men and women are the same or as similar as possible.0.77
00:19:39.860Obviously, they have different sexual organs.
00:19:45.080Of course, that's what they've sought to minimize.
00:32:02.420Yeah, so give us some other indicators because I'm just, you know, playing the devil's advocate for a moment.
00:32:06.820I can hear the contrarian saying, well, I read Genesis 3.16 and I like, oh, Zach, you actually just helped my egalitarian argument out by saying devotion.
00:32:16.740You know, Joel was way more patriarchal, you know, but like, so the sweet woman is simply devoted to her husband, just wants to love him and to serve him.
00:32:24.380And the curse is that she's going to be devoted to someone who is not mutually devoted to her.
00:32:29.080She's going to be devoted and submitting and serving someone,
00:32:47.840You just helped me out with Genesis 3.16.
00:32:49.880So my point is playing the devil's advocate, steel manning.
00:32:53.380It's hard to steel man such a bad position as egalitarianism.
00:32:56.860But if we can, what are some, you know, before Genesis 3.16, some other indicators of male headship before sin entered?
00:33:04.240And I'll just say to preface this, this is important because, like you said, the egalitarian will say that male headship is introduced in Genesis 3.16.
00:33:16.460And therefore, in Christ, it's being overcome, right?
00:33:22.280And so we should be getting back to near equality.
00:33:25.640Of course, that doesn't make sense when you take into account the New Testament.0.98
00:33:30.780You'd have to go beyond the New Testament instructions for women to submit.0.99
00:33:35.280Well, and that's what they would say, though.0.88
00:33:36.340They'd say, well, the New Testament doesn't give direct instructions, explicit instructions to liberate, emancipate slaves.
00:33:44.140But the writings of Paul eventually would lead to that outcome and the abolition of slavery, which I tend to agree with.
00:33:50.920And so then they would make that similar argument saying, so yeah, sure, the New Testament tells slaves to submit to their masters and tells wives to submit to their husbands, but the underpinnings is that throughout Christendom, as things unfold and as the gospel drives deeper into individual hearts and into society, eventually patriarchy would be a dirty relic of the past.
00:34:12.480yeah it's this trajectory uh hermeneutic um of course just to strengthen the argument here
00:34:20.580we're going to get to genesis in a second is uh the new testament is uh you know when you
00:34:27.460i know you uh i think you want to get into first timothy 2 and that'd be great both of those appeal
00:34:32.780to the law or you know how to be informed first so this stuff's always going to the creation
00:34:38.860so that's why this is just that important okay so in my book i think i give 10 um arguments for
00:34:49.100uh male headship in genesis 1 and 2 wow now i wouldn't i can't name them all off the top of my
00:34:55.620head right now i'll try to think of you didn't memorize your own book so somehow i uh i took
00:35:02.960you know some of the arguments you see with like wayne grudem and some other guys and i i just
00:35:08.140i had some of my own and i i got to a total of 10 okay i i think um i'll list off a couple of
00:35:15.720them here um so you you do have adam being formed first which that's that's what uh paul gets into
00:35:23.920in first in the two so i think that that matters and then you know the text says that um eve was
00:35:31.300created as a helper for him now egalitarians are quick to point out well help you know god is
00:35:38.060called a helper so it doesn't the advocate you know it it must be equal but you know obviously
00:35:43.500those are different um you're referring to different beings i mean i think that's one
00:35:47.400thing i i'd say in the book is uh obviously god is god and he's not submitting uh you know
00:35:54.260uh to adam or beneath man in rank right um but we're talking about a created being
00:36:02.140and a particularly a being created for Adam.
00:41:58.180Which I mean, this is very narrow complementarianism, if we can even call it that.
00:42:03.640I mean, it's it's anyway. So, yeah, I think I think the context here is the public worship assembly based on verse eight, where Paul says, I desire that, you know, men should pray lifting holy hands.0.54
00:42:18.440But, you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't limit this to the public worship assembly.0.97
00:42:25.880In other words, I think this I think the principles here apply even to something like like Sunday school, like a man, you know, a woman shouldn't teach theology to to to men in the church.0.87
00:42:37.560So that that gets into kind of the application of it.0.89
00:42:42.140So obviously, yeah, it's it's it's calling women in verse 10 to to good works.
00:42:48.440You know, the people focus on verse 12. I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. But, you know, even if you said that's just an authoritative teaching and not teaching and exercise in authority, which sometimes the egalitarians argue.1.00
00:43:06.480I mean, look at what he says. He says, rather or but, right? That's an adversative. It's strong, but she is to remain quiet. I argue in the book that could also be translated silent.
00:43:18.580um so the which is explicitly said in first corinthians 14 yeah yeah and we can get there
00:43:25.880the the exact opposite thing right whatever this is about teacher exercise authority i mean you
00:43:33.160have the positive command to be quiet or silent and it's um paul's saying this is you know this
00:44:29.760For, or we could say because Adam was formed first, then Eve.
00:44:34.800So he's rooting it in the very order of creation.
00:44:37.500And then there's the second explanation, which is, or basis, is that Adam, verse 14, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
00:44:49.160Of course, that verse sends people into all sorts of hysteria.
00:44:57.180The angry feminist, I could see them foaming at the mouth.0.87
00:45:01.100So yeah, verse 14, I think, I mean, what seems to me the most obvious reading is not, you know, most people aren't willing to say today, but it seems that Paul is saying that because Eve was deceived and Adam was not, that that's part of the reason that women aren't to teach men.0.67
00:45:25.100Now, he doesn't tell us exactly what that means, like why was Eve deceived and why was Adam not deceived?
00:45:33.300But it seems that he's saying there's something to do with the fact that Adam knew exactly what he was doing.
00:45:41.820He sinned openly, whereas Eve actually was deceived by the serpent.0.94
00:45:52.020And so there's something about the very being of woman, the way God has made man and woman, that women should not teach.0.99
00:46:04.040So, you know, that's one thing I argue in the book. I think, you know, even if we look to just the differences, this is kind of a natural law argument, but if we just look to the very differences in bodies and personality and things like this between men and women, that, you know, men are better suited for preaching.1.00
00:46:26.700So I actually I actually am willing to go there and say, yeah, I don't think women make as capable preachers, not in the sense that they aren't intellectually or aren't intellectual or can't be or say good things.0.88
00:46:39.480But it's just that, you know, as far as the commanding voice, the fact that women, a woman was more easily deceived.0.93
00:46:46.700I think there's something there that is to the basis as to why God says men are supposed to preach, not all men, but some men and no women are to preach.0.63
00:46:56.700Right. Yeah, Charles Spurgeon would be with you. If a guy didn't have a barrel chest with his
00:47:03.440school of preachers, he would have sent him away. So not only would you have to be a man, but you
00:47:08.320need to be a particular kind of man, and he would take physical stature into consideration. But
00:47:12.800you're right. I mean, that's a historic position. And I don't mean historic in the sense of that's
00:47:16.720what people believed a thousand years ago. I mean, that's what people believed for thousands of years
00:47:20.400until 15 minutes ago, that women, part of womanly nature is more easily being deceived.
00:47:29.300And again, like you said, it's not even so much, it's not, being more gullible is not,
00:47:37.040that doesn't stem from an inferior status in terms of, you know, intellect. It's not that
00:47:45.960women are intellectually inferior. I think that's part of the way that God designed women,1.00
00:47:51.460which reaffirms their call to serve and helpmate and submission, is that my wife is just naturally
00:48:00.040more agreeable than I am. And I think God made her that way. And you can say, well, that's your
00:48:05.200wife. But no, I think women in general are more agreeable than men. Men are more contrarian. Men,
00:48:13.260I think, tend to be more argumentative. They tend to be more aggressive. I think that's part of how
00:48:20.100God made women. And there are always exceptions to the rule, like men are physically stronger
00:48:26.400than women. Can you find one woman who can outbench one man? Of course, of course. But we're1.00
00:48:32.520speaking in general principles. Men are physically stronger than women. And I think that women are
00:48:39.100more agreeable than men and and those who aren't are the exception and if you say well it's a
00:48:45.120pretty big exception well i would say yeah it's a pretty big exception because you've been
00:48:49.380indoctrinating women from the time they were little girls for the last you know seven decades1.00
00:48:55.340to to to be contrarian that they need to be more aggressive that they need in every magazine and0.99
00:48:59.940every you know tv show and every you know so um and yet even despite all that indoctrination
00:49:06.000still to this day you you just go going against you know it's like jurassic park like every horror
00:49:12.280movie basically the plot is um the plot is that you've got uh you've got all the modern man and
00:49:18.360their technology and they're trying to basically uh go against nature and nature always wins that's
00:49:25.480i mean pretty much every good horror movie jurassic park you know what it like life will find a way
00:49:30.260You know, like, it's like we, you know, it's, it's, we can, we're bigger than nature and
00:49:34.420nature ultimately ends up, you know, eating you and nature wins.
00:49:40.080And so it's like, despite all the indoctrination, all the modern feminism philosophies and all0.93
00:49:44.760these things, um, like you, you still wind up with a bunch of women who are now 45 years
00:49:50.660old and crying, uh, because like, I wish I had had kids and there's regret.1.00
00:49:56.800And you just can't undo that, no matter, I am woman, hear me roar, no matter how many feminist seminars you go to, no matter how many Hollywood TV shows, it doesn't matter.1.00
01:00:30.240And of course, what are we seeing people cast off today?0.88
01:00:33.200I mean, what is kind of ungodly femininity today, or we can just say ungodliness amongst women, is that they're casting off childbearing.1.00
01:02:13.040And then Titus says, and if a guy won't provide for the members of his family, especially his own household, his immediate family, then he's denied the faith and he's worse than an unbeliever.0.89
01:02:26.200So it's taking, too, those quintessential evidences of obedience, what obedience looks like in a man and what obedience looks like in a woman, and recognizing that obedience, it looks different given your station, whether you're a man, whether you're a woman, but whether it be womanly obedience or masculine obedience, in both instances, that's an evidence of the one thing that does save, which is faith.
01:02:54.140And faith that has no evidence, especially the claim to have faith that has the absence of evidence, even aggression and aversion towards that evidence over the course of a lifetime, yeah, we should assume that that person is not in Christ.
01:03:14.440yeah i agree if i could just add briefly here i think supporting what we're saying on on first
01:03:21.140timothy 2 15 lest people say uh oh we're just pointing to some obscure verse uh chapter five
01:03:27.500of the same letter first timothy 5 14 and paul says so i would have younger widows marry bear
01:03:34.040children manage their households i think that's a different managing than what the husband's
01:03:39.000supposed to do it's different great different greek word it's like proverbs 31 yeah yeah
01:03:44.580absolutely um and give the adversary no occasion for slander so so paul is saying hey if a woman's
01:03:52.180younger and her husband dies she should marry and and he's telling her and have kids right that's
01:03:57.760part of the part of it and then um of course there's titus 2 um where where paul says the
01:04:04.420The older women are to train the younger women, Titus 2.4,0.93
01:04:09.060to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure,0.99
01:04:12.840working at home, kind and submissive to their own husbands,
01:04:16.420that the word of God may not be reviled.
01:04:18.140So those are kind of parallel passages in some ways.
01:04:20.900But, yeah, you got that word working at home.
01:04:22.920And I don't know how people try to get around some of these verses.
01:07:33.120They're teaching the sovereignty of God in all things, His providence.
01:07:35.940You know, when the reality is it's like, but I teach that.
01:07:40.540and I teach it to men and women on the Lord's Day by expositional preaching through whole books of
01:07:46.480the Bible, text by text. The elders do that. The elders are going to teach theology of God,
01:07:51.520you know, and when I really looked at Titus 2, I realized, yeah, older women should teach,
01:07:57.500and I think that they should teach younger women. I think that's organic, one-on-one,
01:08:02.360you know, small groups, but I think also there can be contexts of larger groups where an older
01:08:06.460woman is teaching 20 or even 200 younger women at one time. But the question is, what are they
01:08:12.260teaching? It's not just that an older woman gets to teach doctrine of God and theology proper,0.97
01:08:17.980but she's teaching younger women specifically how to love their husbands and children and be
01:08:24.340self-controlled, pure, how to work at home, be kind, and submit to their husbands. Would you0.97
01:08:30.100agree with that? So I look at ties to not just that there is a context for women teaching, namely
01:08:34.860older women teaching younger women, but that Titus 2 is actually also setting the curriculum,
01:08:39.480as it were, for what those older women should be teaching.0.54
01:08:43.420Yeah, I think I agree with you. I don't think Titus 2 or really anywhere in the Bible0.99
01:08:50.780forbids women from teaching scripture and theology to other women. However, I would come back and say
01:08:58.820the emphasis is on women training younger women in femininity, in godly womanhood.0.72
01:09:13.100So this is kind of like the issue with women working outside the home.0.63
01:09:17.460We got to be careful that we don't bind people's consciences with commands that God has not given or prohibitions he hasn't given.0.95
01:09:27.460However, we can still look at Scripture and say, well, here's the emphasis, right?0.84
01:09:33.000That God has designed women to be homeward-oriented, to direct their work towards the home and children.0.98
01:09:43.480And so I think a big problem in the church today is we have all of these Bible studies and women's Bible studies.0.57
01:09:52.580And again, I don't think there's a prohibition on women's Bible studies.
01:09:56.660However, you know, it's great for women to have women's groups, men's groups, and they pray together, fellowship, all these things.
01:10:03.700The primary teaching should come from the elders and the pastor, of course, the Sunday morning or if you meet evening, you know, Sunday teaching, preaching.
01:10:17.800However, the church needs mentorship and older, I mean, you even have, it speaks of older men, but I just think this is something just hugely lacking in the church today is the older men training the younger men, but specifically here, the older women training the younger women.
01:10:41.920I think part of the reason we have so much feminism in the church today is maybe our older women aren't following godly femininity.
01:10:50.040I don't know. I'm sure that's the case in some corners.0.99
01:10:53.700But they're certainly not training the younger women to do so.
01:10:57.760And this shouldn't just have to come from the pulpit.
01:11:00.740But if the first time a young woman in your church is hearing about submitting to her husband and working at home because her own, you know, if her mother's a Christian or other older women, assuming she's been in the church for a while, if older women haven't taught her this stuff, then those older women are failing at this command, Titus 2.
01:11:25.620And so I think this is part of the, this is just a problem in the church.
01:11:30.840Of course, there's the cultural pressure, but the church needs to teach these things from the pulpit.0.86
01:11:36.940But the older women need to do their job in training the younger women in godly femininity.0.90