The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Are Women’s Ministries Actually Biblical？

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, real quick, before we get started, I have a small request.

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00:00:18.040 Hi, welcome to another episode of Theology Applied. I am your host,

00:00:21.200 Pastor Joel Webin with Right Response Ministries, and you're about to listen to

00:00:24.440 one of my all-time favorite episodes. What we're doing for the month of July

00:00:28.000 is we're taking four of my personal favorite episodes that also happen to be four of the

00:00:34.220 most popular episodes that we've ever done. And this is an interview between myself and Rachel

00:00:40.580 Jankovic. Rachel Jankovic. She's written a book called You Who, dealing with women and sadly,

00:00:49.920 the obsession that many of them have in finding identity and worth and value in and of themselves.

00:00:56.780 And in this particular episode, what we focus on is the biblical merit or lack thereof with

00:01:04.020 women's ministries.

00:01:05.660 Basically, we are addressing the question of whether or not women's ministries in local

00:01:12.180 churches is actually biblical.

00:01:15.480 Spoiler alert, the answer is in many cases, no.

00:01:19.500 And we'll tell you precisely why.

00:01:21.260 Thanks for tuning in.

00:01:22.600 Applying God's word to every aspect of life.

00:01:26.140 This is Theology Applied.

00:01:33.540 All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied.

00:01:36.560 This is Pastor Joel Webin with Right Response Ministries.

00:01:38.980 Today, I have Rachel Jankovic as a guest on our show.

00:01:43.880 And we're going to be talking about the title for our topic is

00:01:46.500 How Women's Ministry Went Wrong. 0.50

00:01:49.420 How Women's Ministry Went Wrong. 0.96

00:01:51.720 And so I feel like Rachel has a lot to say about this.

00:01:54.200 she's um she's spoken about this in her writing her blogs or podcasting all those kinds of things

00:02:00.600 and so i'm really excited and honored and privileged to have her as a guest so without

00:02:04.680 further ado uh rachel could you tell our audience a little bit about yourself sure thanks for having

00:02:11.080 me glad to be here and i am a wife and mother that's that's what i do with my life i'm married

00:02:17.960 to live we have seven kids ages almost 16 down to almost five so most of my life what i'm doing is

00:02:25.720 feeding people taking people to school doing the laundry that's that's really what i do

00:02:31.320 but i also have written a few books for mothers and then followed that up with a book on identity

00:02:37.720 because of how many identity problems i was seeing among christian mothers when they would

00:02:42.920 ask questions i think actually you just don't understand what it means to be a christian and

00:02:47.160 what your life is supposed to be like and what you're for and that one's called you who and then

00:02:52.040 i'm heavily involved in the bible reading challenge and just trying to be a faithful

00:02:57.160 christian wife and mother here in moscow that's great let's go ahead and just dive right into our 0.89

00:03:03.000 topic what are some of the problems that you see with the typical women's ministry in our local

00:03:10.280 churches today? Okay. It's a big, that's a real big question. I would say, I think that women's

00:03:18.920 ministry probably started as like a women's auxiliary type event in churches, meaning that

00:03:26.120 women were getting together to work on behalf of the church. Like, you know, you think of wartime

00:03:31.720 things or even trying to earn money for the organ or, you know, whatever it was that they were doing,

00:03:37.560 women were getting together to work together and that was that was the goal well as uh our culture 1.00

00:03:43.800 things have really shifted so if you think about that old old school kind of women are sewing 0.99

00:03:49.240 quilts and crocheting baby blankets for the needy well that's less likely to be needed now right we 1.00

00:03:55.800 don't need we don't actually need people to be crocheting the blankets because we have mass

00:04:00.920 produced things. The cultural situation changed. So what I think happened is you still had this

00:04:09.480 women getting together, but we made the women in the church themselves the work of the women

00:04:16.040 in the church. So instead of women working shoulder to shoulder for the kingdom and for 0.91

00:04:21.000 the gospel, it turned into a circle where we're facing one another, where it's all about ourselves.

00:04:29.160 And I think that's unhealthy.

00:04:32.320 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

00:04:34.720 I feel like in our nation today, you know, you always hear the term easy believism.

00:04:40.140 And we could say that part of the problem with the evangelical church in America is it's just too dang easy to be a Christian.

00:04:48.020 And it sounds like kind of part of what you're saying is maybe more specifically, it's too easy to be a Christian woman.

00:04:55.100 There's just because of modern conveniences.

00:04:57.520 The bar is very low.

00:04:58.180 yeah because of modern conveniences so I hear you saying that if I want to love

00:05:02.900 my wife well I need to to sell our dishwasher and microwave is that

00:05:06.880 correct of course yeah that's what I mean I actually have I serve on what is

00:05:13.640 effectively our women's ministry in a church in our church and we but I can

00:05:19.760 say that it's a tremendous blessing of fellowship for women to be working

00:05:24.520 together towards something so i'm not suggesting that we discard the ways that women get to know

00:05:31.240 each other the ways that we support one another the ways that women can be thoughtful of one

00:05:35.320 another but the focus of what we're trying to do has an awful lot to do with how healthy that kind

00:05:41.160 of support will be right like how healthy how actually god-centered how uh actually encouraging

00:05:49.240 the health is so you asked me i mean i only said one thing that i think has gone wrong but if you

00:05:54.840 think about this system we've made where the women are all facing each other and you have women in

00:05:59.880 charge whose job it is to have needy women in the church right it's essentially a welfare system

00:06:07.480 like they would think that the women's ministry is failing if nobody shows up for them but if

00:06:13.560 all the women are not desperately emotionally needy and they don't need to go they're like

00:06:18.280 I don't need to show up for this moment because they're not needed to work. It's like they're for 0.99

00:06:24.600 they're consumers of ministry, right? They're supposed to come and receive something that

00:06:30.040 will bless them. If they're not coming, that would be seen as a failure of somebody. But

00:06:35.720 the reality is they might just be doing well. They might be spiritually healthy and that would kill

00:06:41.880 off the women's ministry in some ways. And the other way is that problem that you end up with 0.97

00:06:47.880 women teachers where the godly women in the church are become sort of the pastors for women

00:06:55.400 right instead of being instead of themselves being the most hospitable the most uh you know like 0.92

00:07:02.280 instead of them pursuing the roles that women are called to they are turning into like the pastors

00:07:07.640 for the women church right in the church yeah yeah i have definitely witnessed that um you kept

00:07:14.760 up saying this face-to-face versus shoulder-to-shoulder. It reminds me of C.S. Lewis when he

00:07:21.000 talks about the essence of friendship. He says, you know, the essence of friendship. Yeah, exactly.

00:07:25.860 It's this you too, essence of light, meaning that we're not just, we're not, we're certainly

00:07:32.040 not navel-gazing. Sadly, I think a lot of women's ministry has gone beyond face-to-face, and I think

00:07:36.100 you would agree with this. It's now gone to just looking at your own, your own navel. 0.92

00:07:39.680 Yeah.

00:07:40.680 Messed.

00:07:41.680 Everybody get out your sin and let's talk about it.

00:07:43.680 I do think, and in Four Loves, I think he says that, that those who are going nowhere 1.00

00:07:47.720 can have no fellow travelers, and that is the thing is that there's, while women are

00:07:53.780 in this circle, pouring out their grief and supporting one another in their messes and

00:07:59.420 their tangles, and they're like, just hear it and feel it with one another, nobody's

00:08:03.680 going anywhere.

00:08:04.680 So they're actually still missing what they need desperately, which is the companionship

00:08:10.220 of fellow travelers, but there's no trajectory.

00:08:13.820 So they think they're having, they think they're getting it, but they're still missing what

00:08:18.680 they're longing for, if that makes sense.

00:08:20.740 Yeah. 0.90

00:08:21.060 It sounds like what you're saying is women, godly women need a mission and it doesn't

00:08:26.180 need to be focused on themselves, but like, what are we doing together?

00:08:29.660 And I always think about like, it's not like men are called to work and women aren't.

00:08:33.520 we just have two different arenas where we're called to work and men and in many ways work

00:08:39.000 outside of the home with provision and protection whereas women are called to work in the home but

00:08:44.860 it's still working there's still a mission and if if women aren't thinking in terms of mission or

00:08:50.800 working then it just yeah it just becomes kind of this this love fest of you know you're amazing 0.96

00:08:55.860 you're awesome and that's what women's ministry consists of rather than you have a mission are

00:09:00.860 you doing it well if so okay i'll see you on the lord's day when the pastor preaches to us because

00:09:05.000 you're healthy and if you're not doing it well then let's let's you know as an extracurricular

00:09:09.500 not a substitute to the lord's day to being a part of this local church but extracurricular

00:09:14.520 let's uh let's get an older woman around you to help beef up your you know your your success in

00:09:20.580 fulfilling your mission at home would you agree with that yes yes i think i would mostly agree

00:09:27.180 that my the one thing i would say is that i i do think men are women are called to different

00:09:32.300 areas but i don't think husbands and wives are called to different areas they're called to be

00:09:38.300 a godly household and building you know for the kingdom it's a kingdom building calling that a

00:09:45.340 husband and wife share the actual roles are different but it's not like what i'm doing

00:09:51.660 at home is not my husband's sphere. It's what I'm doing with him unto the Lord. So it is different

00:10:00.380 in the sense that, yes, I think I'm called to different, I'm called to different work than he

00:10:05.180 is, but it's not like they don't overlap. Like I'm called to this and he's called over there and

00:10:11.100 we're not actually called to the same life together. That's helpful. So you're pushing

00:10:14.940 back on like what I said in terms of, okay, we have two different, the difference between men

00:10:19.180 men and women is we have two different spheres. Cause you're right. I should clarify. It's less

00:10:23.000 of that. It's more of no, like we're both trying to build the kingdom by building

00:10:26.860 godly households. And so it's not so much we're working in two different spheres, but,

00:10:30.980 but we're working in two different ways. You're, you're doing one thing and I'm doing another.

00:10:36.320 Exactly. So it's the same, but I would say my husband and I, so I think it's an important

00:10:41.740 distinction that what I'm doing at home, I'm doing as his helper. I'm not doing it. I'm not

00:10:47.580 doing it because this is my work i'm doing it because this is his work and he and god has given

00:10:52.940 him me to help him get this accomplished so that is it is different as far as it's not as uh i

00:11:00.380 don't think that the home is like the woman's domain like the woman is stuck here i think it's

00:11:05.980 my domain like god has called me to do this work on behalf of us as a family and his people no

00:11:12.780 that's really good i've heard it said before i can't remember the exact reference but i've heard

00:11:16.780 it said that um that a woman is always like similar to what your dad has said with doug wilson

00:11:23.740 in terms of like a man even his absence he's still no matter what he's the head of his home and uh

00:11:29.020 and so whether that's an empty chair or a abusive chair at the table or a godly chair either way

00:11:34.700 he's the head of his home he's just he's a good one or a bad one in the same way would you would

00:11:39.260 you i've heard it said that a woman is always going to be the help mate of a man it's either

00:11:44.700 going to be her husband or it's going to be she's going to be building the household of her husband 0.68

00:11:49.660 or she's going to be building if she works for some company she's nine times out of ten building

00:11:55.020 another man's kingdom she's she's she's she's helping a man build something as his helpmate 0.99

00:12:02.700 and and what we want to encourage women to do is uh use that energy use those gifts use that that

00:12:08.380 love and everything that god's given you to build up your husband's uh his house would you agree

00:12:13.420 with that statement i don't know i actually think i'm thinking as you say that i don't know that i

00:12:19.100 would say that that in the same way that there's no exceptions that that's what would be happening

00:12:25.340 but i think it's very typical i mean that's that that's that chesterton quote right about the

00:12:32.380 million women who rose up and said we will not be dictated to and became stenographers like like

00:12:39.900 don't tell me what to do i'll be your secretary right just it's hilarious but but yes i believe

00:12:47.180 that that's often the case but i don't know that i'd want to say that's a universal

00:12:50.540 gotcha so so you want to say it's as universal as uh a man being the head of his home

00:12:56.540 but you but you would be willing to admit that there is an irony that often seems to be true

00:13:01.420 yeah totally yeah that's typically the case for sure fair enough okay so here's another question

00:13:06.060 how can pastors who biblically should be male, how can they effectively love and shepherd 50,

00:13:13.020 typically 50% of their church, namely the women?

00:13:18.860 Okay, so when it comes to women's ministry, I sometimes make this distinction that I think

00:13:23.740 women should be thinking in terms of a ministry of women. What can we do together that is a

00:13:30.140 ministry uh versus there's really only one ministry of the church and it's for men and women right the

00:13:37.340 ministry of the word and sacrament that's what is that's not something that is for men only right

00:13:43.340 so because the office of preaching and pastoring is for men biblically that doesn't mean that it is

00:13:50.780 only effective for the men in the congregation it's for all of god's people including you know

00:13:55.980 children women everyone should be under the faithful teaching of god's word and that's

00:14:00.620 really the ministry the one ministry of the church is that so i would say the most critical thing is

00:14:08.380 for a pastor to be faithfully preaching god's word faithfully teaching god's word and uh one

00:14:15.340 of the most common ways that pastors don't love the women in their church is by being afraid of

00:14:20.380 them and I think that that that I have joked sometimes one of the best things

00:14:24.940 my husband one of the most wonderful things about my husband is how he's not

00:14:28.780 at all afraid of me and what I mean by that is that it's a real mercy to women

00:14:35.260 in a church when the pastor is not afraid to say something that might upset

00:14:40.180 some women in the church are afraid to because I think this has been a really

00:14:44.260 bad little cycle that we've gotten into the pastors afraid to directly address

00:14:49.540 women in the congregation and because he's afraid to directly address women

00:14:55.420 like because he's not a woman because the women will you know in a lot of

00:15:00.040 places there will be huge outcry and the women will get their husbands mad and 0.99

00:15:03.780 never you know it'll turn into a big scene of the addresses of women so then 1.00

00:15:07.900 what they end up doing is they have a bunch of women who need something so

00:15:11.500 then they add they start a women's ministry where the whole premise of why

00:15:15.760 they're asking a woman to do it is because we don't want to say a thing that actually

00:15:20.080 addresses the women so then you have created this bizarrely emotional situation where we

00:15:27.520 exist to serve the emotions of the women in the church rather than the church exists or

00:15:33.280 that the preacher is preaching because he serves God and his word right and the and the people

00:15:38.960 are called to come under that and obey God's word instead it's like well we'll start a

00:15:43.840 whole other branch of things where we won't say the hard things to women. And I think that that's

00:15:49.280 just, it really, really belittles women to think that godly Christian women cannot hear God's word

00:15:58.480 preached and apply it to their life and actually be as encouraged by that as men are. Yeah.

00:16:07.200 No, you're right. It's demeaning to women. It's that they won't be as edifying, 1.00

00:16:11.440 they won't be as encouraged but also that they um that they can't handle it they can't handle it

00:16:17.920 right that they don't handle it if god's word says something to you that's right so like i mean if we

00:16:23.040 i it's so funny how you know like i mean if you just do like a youtube search for like courageous

00:16:28.960 preachers and courageous sermons um you know like you so often if i had a dollar for every time i

00:16:36.800 I hear some pastor, you know, just railing on the men in the church. 0.93

00:16:41.740 You know, you sleazy, lazy, you know. 1.00

00:16:45.760 With your porn problems. 1.00

00:16:47.120 Yeah, exactly. 1.00

00:16:48.020 Disgusting, you're lazy. 1.00

00:16:49.600 Yeah, exactly. 1.00

00:16:50.200 You're boys who can shave, right?

00:16:51.920 You know, if we had a dollar for like.

00:16:53.240 And everybody's like, amen.

00:16:54.320 Amen.

00:16:55.000 And I'm thinking, I'm thinking that's courageous.

00:16:57.980 It doesn't sound like it took much courage because I hear a roaring applause in the background. 0.84

00:17:03.620 You want to hear a pastor get up there and say, I know you're being lazy housewives and you're disrespecting your husband.

00:17:09.780 Yeah, it's not going to go over something. 0.98

00:17:11.220 Right.

00:17:11.400 That would take some courage.

00:17:13.040 I would take like when I when I want to be inspired by courageous men, I like to read, you know, just the first chapter of Amos that starts off with, you know, calling women cows.

00:17:23.580 You know, like that's I'm like, wow, 2020. 0.70

00:17:25.540 I would say that I that I'm not sure that I think that style of preaching is super effective in any direction.

00:17:32.900 So yes, it could be courageous, but it might, it might not be effective.

00:17:37.440 Yeah.

00:17:37.760 So I'm not saying you have to use that tone, but the fact that like Amos, a man is, and,

00:17:42.400 and, but that's what you're getting at is that it's not about the man.

00:17:45.100 It's about the word.

00:17:46.380 It's the word of God.

00:17:47.720 Amos had the word of God.

00:17:50.180 And so the credibility doesn't, doesn't rest ultimately with the messenger.

00:17:54.720 It rests with the message.

00:17:56.260 And I can't help but think that some of this is just the outflowing implications of our

00:18:00.880 man-centered churches our man-centered ministries our man-centered theology that if it's all about

00:18:06.800 meeting felt needs well then eventually if it's all about the people and not about God

00:18:12.680 as it goes to to the people in the pews well eventually that's going to affect the pulpit

00:18:17.840 meaning that the person in the pulpit the authority begins to rest on him the man rather than the

00:18:24.500 message and so I think a lot of times men male pastors don't feel like they can really call out

00:18:29.980 some of the sins that the Bible very clearly addresses in women because they think that they

00:18:35.020 don't have the credentials to do so by virtue of not being a woman. But ultimately, that entire

00:18:40.540 sentiment, what it does, in effect, is it transfers the authority from the Word to the man.

00:18:47.980 Yeah, to the person. So, one thing that's interesting about that is that I'm a woman,

00:18:53.420 so I can call out women on their sins, but I can tell you that it doesn't go better. Like, 1.00

00:18:58.940 it's not it's not like just because you're a woman and you say listen I also

00:19:03.500 have toddlers and you need to get up and deal with this like you can't you can't

00:19:08.600 like if someone says you know I woke up and my toddler had a dirty diaper and so

00:19:12.560 I just hid in my bed for an hour well I could be like you know what I've woken

00:19:16.460 up and had a toddler with a dirty diaper also and your job is to get up and go

00:19:20.420 handle that and it doesn't matter because because what they're saying you

00:19:24.440 have to have experienced is exactly what they're doing you have to have stumbled

00:19:28.760 exactly the way they have and not see any solution to it that's that's what's required because the 0.97

00:19:34.920 fact that i've lived through things doesn't make it more attractive to women who don't want to

00:19:39.880 actually hear the answer to it you know that's super helpful it reminds me of jesus like he's

00:19:45.720 a merciful high priest because he too has been tempted but he associates with the lowly not

00:19:50.840 because he shares in our sin but because he's shared in a commonality of temptation experiences

00:19:57.240 So what you're saying is that what sadly many women in the church today are wanting is not

00:20:04.920 even a shared experience. Even that is kind of a veil for what they really want is a shared

00:20:11.480 surrender to the flesh. Would you agree with that? It has to be you also are stuck in the same mud

00:20:18.520 with me. Not like you know the way to get out of this and you're giving me a hand. It's like,

00:20:23.880 Like, I don't want an escape.

00:20:26.260 I don't want to get out.

00:20:27.880 I want to be here,

00:20:29.820 which you actually see in things all over the internet.

00:20:32.220 Like, you know, there are always these little posts

00:20:35.280 of people being like,

00:20:36.480 here's 20 things you should never have said

00:20:38.640 to your friend who had a miscarriage, right?

00:20:40.920 Or here's where they're itemizing all the time

00:20:43.660 what you may not do to me

00:20:45.420 because the privileged position has been switched

00:20:49.120 to be the person who's actively in sin

00:20:51.180 or in a problem in some way.

00:20:53.720 that's the one, that's the privileged position.

00:20:56.180 The people who are not in the problem

00:20:58.500 are the ones that we perceive as being sin.

00:21:01.300 You know, someone who reaches out their hand to you

00:21:04.100 saying all things work together for good 0.99

00:21:07.200 will be like, you disgust me, you heartless.

00:21:10.160 You know, like if you quoted that at a time like this, 0.57

00:21:13.540 you know, it's-

00:21:14.980 You're being insensitive.

00:21:15.940 Yeah, no, you're right.

00:21:16.840 So like privilege has shifted to the one

00:21:19.680 who is in the muck and the mire.

00:21:21.620 And with privilege, of course,

00:21:23.020 our culture today i mean what you're speaking to is more generally it's not just related to women

00:21:28.140 but but on the whole with privilege in our culture today comes power so the so the power the one who

00:21:33.580 holds the power is uh the one who is the one in the sin that's right the one the problem is the

00:21:38.700 one with the power about how everybody else ought to get them out of it and i have told we we i have

00:21:44.620 teenagers uh and we always laugh about this because sometimes if you're like okay somebody's in a bad

00:21:50.380 and say you're talking to about it or you're teasing them about it and there

00:21:54.580 they'll be like mom I it's not helping you know like this isn't helping your

00:21:58.480 efforts to make me overcome this or not helping and we always laugh about this

00:22:02.480 they laugh also I just said that's great if you know what will help then why

00:22:07.360 don't you go handle it yourself that's of course of course I'm not gonna have

00:22:12.340 that like of course me saying all right we got to get past this of course they

00:22:16.120 don't always know exactly what is the thing that will pull you out of it but

00:22:19.500 But in the absence of you handling it, I'm having to try.

00:22:24.640 So if you have the perfect knowledge about how to get a woman who's going through a grief

00:22:30.600 to not be bitter at everyone and to not whatever, well, then go ahead and handle it yourself.

00:22:35.840 You shouldn't be just telling everyone else how to do it.

00:22:38.500 Right.

00:22:39.500 Yeah, that's good.

00:22:40.500 You keep using this phrase like, get out of it, get out of it.

00:22:42.500 And it just keeps making me think of, well, it just makes me think of like in our culture

00:22:47.900 today in the church, sadly is no exception, but one of the most esteemed virtues seems to be

00:22:53.840 empathy. So like when you say, get me out of it, whereas, you know, you've, you've said multiple

00:22:58.640 times now, what, what many women sadly want is when they're in it and the proverbial it being

00:23:03.680 sin, weakness, struggling, suffering, difficult, it's this quicksand. And when someone is in that

00:23:10.580 quicksand, rather than, than a helping hand to get them out, what they want is for somebody else,

00:23:15.560 not to get them out, but to get in, to, to not to, not to like sympathy is to suffer with,

00:23:22.380 but empathy is to suffer in. And, and so I think that that's, that's not just particular to women,

00:23:27.940 but our culture as a whole right now is just all about empathy, empathy, empathy, just even

00:23:33.120 watching the DNC. I mean, if I, you know, if, if we could some, if we played a drinking game and

00:23:38.280 you had to take a, take a swig every time the word empathy was said by Michelle Obama and everybody

00:23:42.560 else like we'd be plastic you know i'd be disqualified from being an elder so i know

00:23:47.120 could you talk about that yeah i know i'm going to get the details of this wrong because it's been

00:23:52.160 quite a while since i read pilgrim's progress but i should have because now i'm going to cite it

00:23:56.800 anyways all right um i think it's christian and hopeful who end up in doubters castle like they

00:24:02.800 end up locked up and it's and it's like they're stuck in there because they went off of the way

00:24:08.320 and things are so they're in a big tangle right they're doubting everything it's a terrible time

00:24:14.080 uh i think it's the giant despairs castle and they're in there and i think it might be some

00:24:20.160 other character mr greatheart or someone who who comes there but that character who comes is the

00:24:26.320 one who it doesn't come in there to curl up with them and be sad with them he comes in there to

00:24:32.720 rebuke them and tell them that the key is in their pocket like you have the key to get out of here

00:24:37.760 what are you doing? And I think that that's the problem, is that we've taken it as a great thing

00:24:45.840 that empathy is for someone who is not currently locked in Daughter's Castle to go in there and

00:24:50.720 sit and weep with them. But if you actually know the answer, if you know Christ, if you know the

00:24:56.560 answer, then you're being awful to go just sit in there and weep with them, right? Like that's

00:25:03.200 really unkind right and and so yeah i think christians just need to have a thicker skin

00:25:09.840 about being accused of being unkind when what you're offering is kindness you know if you think

00:25:16.080 but christ this is kindness this is mercy and but we're so vulnerable to being told that we're

00:25:21.680 being unkind or that we're not like that's a thing that stresses christians out yeah so consequently

00:25:28.240 it's used all the time on us right like you're told that all the time so yeah well you have to

00:25:35.360 get a thicker skin about that yeah i completely agree yeah i i think um we often we want just a

00:25:42.720 fellow cellmate as we're rotting in jail rather than actually someone being an extension of christ

00:25:49.120 himself uh fulfilling the role of a deliverer like we we're called to be an extension of christ

00:25:55.680 where we are delivering people from bondage and from sin and uh but but in our culture today

00:26:02.480 that's not people don't want deliverance it reminds me of jesus when you know he says

00:26:06.720 do you want to be well you know in john chapter five that the man who's lame at the pool bethesda

00:26:12.480 and it seems like such a such a a pointless question but it's jesus so there's probably

00:26:18.400 a point you know but do you want to be well implying not everybody does not everybody wants

00:26:23.360 to be well you know certainly not they don't um i also think about like you said like mourning with

00:26:28.880 those who mourn so that empathetic you know just join me in my misery join me in my pain don't

00:26:33.920 actually help me don't help me get out suffer not with but in get in the muck and mire it makes me

00:26:39.280 think of you know another you know very very very often used uh scripture today romans 12 you know

00:26:45.840 mourn with those who mourn but i can't help but think that the first half of the verse is rejoice

00:26:50.320 with those who rejoice and if we look at you know if we just cross reference over to first corinthians

00:26:54.640 13 with rejoicing um we we see that love that is biblical love the love that that imitates god who

00:27:01.920 is love uh rejoices but it rejoices only in the truth and so if we took that rejoice with those

00:27:07.920 who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn we say but true christian rejoicing only rejoices in the

00:27:13.600 truth and then we just apply that to the second half of the verse meaning that we should only

00:27:17.920 mourn in the truth, then one of the first questions we have to ask, I feel like, and you

00:27:22.260 correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the first questions we should ask our fellow brother or

00:27:25.600 sister in Christ, if they're mourning, is are you mourning in the truth? Because I can only mourn

00:27:30.880 with you if you're mourning righteously. If we overturn Roe versus Wade, there would be millions

00:27:37.200 of people mourning in our nation the loss of their legal right to murder their children. But as

00:27:42.860 Christians, obviously, we don't mourn with them.

00:27:45.020 So it's got to be the implicit, you know, component of mourn with those who mourn is

00:27:51.340 mourn with those who mourn righteously.

00:27:53.300 And if we're mourning with someone who is mourning sinfully, then we're really just

00:27:58.560 validating and affirming their sin.

00:28:01.640 Would you agree with that sentiment?

00:28:03.960 Yes.

00:28:04.600 Although I still like, so say someone goes through a real great major loss or tragedy,

00:28:10.020 Christians are called to mourn with that person and we're also called to keep

00:28:14.100 them on the path of godly mourning so it doesn't mean like if a woman loses her

00:28:19.080 husband and she starts to say something or starts to be angry with God that

00:28:23.680 you're like well I'm out of here you know right you need to have

00:28:26.460 companionship of people yes you know focusing you on Christ but I think that

00:28:31.020 I would say that happens more commonly now as people say don't talk to me about

00:28:37.180 that's I mentioned that already you know all things work together for good people

00:28:40.900 like don't talk about that kind of thing don't talk about Christ at a time like

00:28:44.260 this I just feel my pain don't try to say don't try to say godly things and

00:28:49.060 one of the things and they often say because the Bible says we put those who

00:28:53.740 weep right they're like so that's what I'm doing I'm gonna weep with those who

00:28:58.120 weep and one of the things I think is so interesting about that is have you ever

00:29:02.860 ever met a Christian who really knows the Lord, really loves the Lord, who could point

00:29:09.980 to Christ and talk of Christ in the face of a tragedy and not be weeping with those who

00:29:15.300 weep.

00:29:16.300 Like, I think, you know, someone loses a child and you go to talk to them about our Savior

00:29:22.340 and our hope in Christ.

00:29:24.180 It's not like that's a feelingless event, like you're talking about our dearest hope

00:29:29.840 and our fiercest love.

00:29:31.920 not like you're talking about the thing that doesn't matter at all it's not platitudes it's

00:29:35.680 not and of course i can imagine a time that a christian who's too afraid of what's happening

00:29:42.000 would just want to paper some bible verses onto it and leave so they could get out of there but

00:29:48.720 that's just someone who's not going to be helped no matter what right like that's someone who's

00:29:52.720 just too fearful to be helped in that time yeah but all the real tragedies i could think of

00:29:59.120 you have a real Christian who loves the Lord, they're weeping with those who weep while they're

00:30:03.440 pointing to Christ. You know, like, there's no way that they can do that while not caring, 0.51

00:30:08.720 right? And so that's why even your weeping is truthful in that moment.

00:30:14.240 Right. Yep. No, I completely agree. And what you're describing, even some of the hypothetical

00:30:18.640 situations you threw out were, again, were things that I would categorize as mourning or weeping

00:30:26.880 righteously like the loss of a child oh yeah or the loss of your husband certainly those are

00:30:31.380 good things whereas sadly there are moments where what's being mourned is um something that um the

00:30:39.100 loss of something that that in christ we were never actually even meant to have something that

00:30:43.140 we're something that we're supposed to lose like self you know and uh yeah like i've you know like

00:30:49.320 so the the woman you know who's weeping the loss of her own identity because now she's a mother

00:30:54.220 and uh you know so but yeah that's great yes i don't i even there though i think a christian

00:31:01.580 coming alongside to point them to christ is still going to be talking about their most closely held

00:31:07.820 dearest beliefs it's compassionate to do that it's not it's not like that's missing compassion

00:31:15.260 that you're engaged in the deeper discussion with someone even if they're having a petty problem yeah

00:31:20.380 that's good yeah because god cares about our little problems um our petty problems yeah amen

00:31:27.260 because well because really in the big scheme of things with the god of the universe they're all 1.00

00:31:31.420 petty problems that's right um okay so here's another question uh should women teach other 0.74

00:31:36.460 women so whatever form of women discipling women because i know you believe in so whether there's

00:31:41.900 a formal women's ministry or not um that that's you know that you know that's a different subject

00:31:47.420 But certainly we both believe that women should be discipling other women.

00:31:53.140 And so in that discipleship, whatever the context may be, in that discipleship, should there be a lot of emphasis on women teaching other women doctrines, like theology proper, teaching them about the Trinity or the two natures of Christ?

00:32:13.540 or should should there be kind of a intentional focus in the teaching with women teaching other

00:32:21.660 women um should it be should it be more regulated to teaching things that specifically relate to

00:32:27.420 women and my question is coming from uh just to give you a heads up my question is coming from

00:32:31.820 titus 2 but this could be you know i this could be too too narrow of a reading of the text and so

00:32:37.720 I'm open to your pushback. But Titus 2, starting verse 3, says, older women likewise are to be

00:32:44.420 reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach, so there is a 0.96

00:32:50.600 teaching capacity, they are to teach what is good. And so, verse 4 now, and so train the young women

00:32:56.600 to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind,

00:33:02.020 and submissive to their own husbands that the word of God may not be reviled. Would you see

00:33:07.920 that verse 3 and 4 of Titus 2 as this is what women should teach other women and hold that 0.95

00:33:13.820 real tight, like almost exclusively teaching these things? Or would you have a category for

00:33:20.900 a bunch of women in the church getting together and a woman teaching them, 1.00

00:33:25.160 we're going to teach doctrine of God? What do you think about that? 0.97

00:33:28.760 I think that this is actually like, I just want to be clear that I don't think scripture

00:33:35.080 is overdoing itself on clarity on this, which means that I would probably really have a problem. 0.81

00:33:42.760 Like, I think it could be way more harmful to have a situation where the pastor is saying the women

00:33:48.360 are not allowed to talk theology together. I think that that's just creepy in a way, right? Like to be

00:33:53.960 like we're banning you from these discussions or whatever that would be weird but i can say

00:33:59.640 practically speaking so i mentioned already that that i'm heavily involved in the bible reading

00:34:04.840 challenge this is this is a thing that the women in our women's ministry this is the thing that

00:34:10.280 the women in our church do which is hosting this bible reading challenge where we're encouraging

00:34:15.400 one another to be in the word we're pushing uh we're trying to get women who've never read their

00:34:20.440 bibles to be reading their bibles we're really working to get women in the word we do specifically

00:34:27.720 not teach doctrine so we and that's intentional the in and the intention there is that we intend 0.99

00:34:35.640 to teach a love of the word we want to teach the habits of being in the word we do not want to get

00:34:41.960 into trying to teach everyone doctrine does that mean that we don't talk about doctrine no it

00:34:47.400 doesn't it's like table fellowship we do talk about right we do talk about what does this mean

00:34:52.120 what's this about ask your pastor talk to you know like look like so so i have no problem at

00:34:58.680 all with women being very i want women to be very word centric and doctrine literate so yes i am

00:35:06.760 very very in favor like all of our daughters are receiving the same education as our sons we want

00:35:13.320 them learning doctrine and we want them learning theology and we want them to be well educated

00:35:18.600 and thoughtful so it's not like i don't ever want to be perceived as saying women don't need

00:35:25.640 you know like because you'll see people now saying things like women need theology

00:35:29.800 too and it's like well of course they do because women need god and we need to understand god as

00:35:35.400 he's revealed himself so of course but do women need to be trying to be pastors like trying to 0.66

00:35:42.280 trying to look through all the commentaries and do all this and I would 0.82

00:35:46.340 just say no because this is gonna be a weird this is gonna be a weird example

00:35:51.760 just stick with me for a second so when my husband goes to work and he's out

00:35:58.540 doing all this on behalf of our family he brings home a paycheck well I

00:36:03.040 translate that paycheck into hot food on the table right like I translate his

00:36:09.500 work into something that that blesses my family that blesses the children but when i bless the

00:36:16.300 children with a hot meal i'm blessing them with the love of their father right like they're they're

00:36:22.060 the love of their father elsewhere is something that i have translated into physical comfort and

00:36:28.060 love for for them so i think in many ways in a really healthy functioning church what you have

00:36:35.420 happening is a godly pastor preaching the word and the men receive that and do one kind of work with

00:36:44.300 that and the women do the translation work and it doesn't mean that we don't need to know what like

00:36:51.260 we need to know the thing that we're translating right you know like we need to know that but

00:36:55.900 we're not that's not our emphasis is not on that part so we joke that so the bible reading challenge

00:37:01.820 we have i think it's close to 25 000 women in the facebook group doing the bible reading right now

00:37:08.380 but it's like a hospitality ministry of the women in our church but we're spending the money in the

00:37:14.700 bank of of all these women being taught from the word being like we're the money that we're

00:37:21.340 spending in this hospitality is the money of male leadership and teaching and like that's what we're

00:37:28.620 doing so we're not trying to start like a doctrine class for women but we absolutely are in favor of

00:37:36.620 women knowing what they think about doctrine right um and i would say that when we shifted this

00:37:43.980 thinking uh to focusing on getting women in the word what the titus two things specifically titus

00:37:51.740 two things came out so much more naturally when our focus was getting women in the word

00:37:57.980 then you had women saying like well i could throw up i would love to throw a party at my house to

00:38:02.940 encourage people like you have people trying to use their hospitality for a goal you had women

00:38:08.220 encouraging one another about their lives with babies because the goal is that you'll be in god's

00:38:13.340 word so you have you know someone says i'm struggling with reading every day because now i 0.98

00:38:18.380 have two babies there'll be a huge comment thread of women being like i listen first thing in the 1.00

00:38:24.140 morning when I'm nursing the baby and this is what I do." And it was a ton of practical advice 0.97

00:38:30.220 from people who also love God's Word. So I guess the only thing I would say is to be very careful

00:38:36.220 to not start making weird gender divisions that God doesn't make because I do think that women

00:38:44.860 need to understand theology. But I do also think that there's a real danger in women trying to 1.00

00:38:49.820 to become theology wonks, because that's not what we're called to. 0.99

00:38:54.200 We're called to translating the things that we've been taught into culture

00:38:59.420 building, kingdom building, home building work, and that should be our emphasis.

00:39:05.000 Yeah, I completely agree.

00:39:06.540 I think for me, the question was coming from a place of just thinking that

00:39:11.200 not for a second doubting the need for women to know theology,

00:39:16.600 discuss theology be applying theology talking about theology um i think for me it's just um 0.96

00:39:22.660 i i just have i'd like to think it's a holy suspicion uh when when when women gravitate

00:39:29.660 towards you know and i'm sure we're thinking of some of the same women in the evangelical

00:39:34.120 public sphere but uh it's like you know this woman is like okay but what is what is this

00:39:39.300 conference even over what is she talking about like she's talking about theology proper

00:39:42.740 and it's like something like theology proper like because so agreeing with you because there isn't

00:39:50.040 some hard line distinction between men and women on this issue because there's one god who eternally

00:39:56.000 exists in three persons and we share one bible uh why do you have to be taught this subject by a

00:40:02.140 woman what you know what i mean like what what's the why why why is the lord's day the the male

00:40:08.380 pastor preaching the text on the Lord's day, talking about theology proper, why do we need

00:40:13.800 something specific? Why does it have to come from a woman? You see what I'm saying?

00:40:20.860 Yeah. And I'll do things. One is I think your suspicion is accurate because a lot of the time

00:40:27.160 that is not a standalone event. It's, it's part of a fast break for the pulpit, right? Like it's,

00:40:34.680 it's part it is there's a trajectory happening so if there's like some sweet lady in your church

00:40:40.760 who's like you know what i need to read i you know i i need to brush up on what i believe

00:40:45.400 about the trinity so she's reading a book on the trinity there's zero threat to anything there

00:40:50.280 because she's just like i've realized there's something i don't understand about my faith and i 1.00

00:40:54.840 want to flesh that out right that's good and wholesome awesome right but when it's like women

00:41:00.200 we have to rise up and teach one another the attributes of God. We're like, well, what are 0.94

00:41:06.680 you doing? What's the trajectory of this? Why are you doing that? You would enjoy this. I was at a

00:41:12.680 conference sometime where in the Q&A in a women's thing, they asked what book has most influenced

00:41:22.360 you for the glory of god other than the bible and uh this was a very this was would have been

00:41:31.240 a group where it was way cooler for it to have been a theology book right so i think one of the

00:41:37.640 answers was uh you know the attributes of god aw pink the attributes of god and you know it was

00:41:43.880 that kind of like this is uh intellectual knowledge of god and and knowing that it would provoke

00:41:50.920 something and still doing it anyways because i thought it would be funny as i said it is

00:41:57.000 i did say that's like saying what was your best conversation ever like there have been a lot of

00:42:01.240 books that have influenced me i don't want to you know but i said i would say most recently

00:42:06.920 the tartine bread cookbook and the amount of shock and awe that you would say something like that

00:42:14.760 when talking about the glory of god right and this was from a very conservative group that's

00:42:19.400 very all about resisting the influence of beth moore and resisting like it's all about not be

00:42:26.760 not letting women into the pulpit but the fact that i would say that a cookbook had been influential

00:42:33.400 in my life was like what do you think like it it so clearly came off as horrifically flippant and

00:42:41.400 and reckless it was funny i i want uh well i listened to that moment and i i know which

00:42:46.920 conference you're referencing well i either listened to it i can't remember or i listened to

00:42:53.080 you talk about it on some some kind of podcast format but i i heard this story and i thought it

00:42:59.080 was i thought it was really funny also so that's something i i appreciate about you your willingness

00:43:05.240 you take after your dad your willingness to just hey i think i'm gonna ruffle a couple feathers

00:43:09.480 here so um like half the crowd was like clearly delighted yeah this is interesting and the other

00:43:16.680 half was like i mean really scowling up such a funny moment yeah i i bet um okay so i got one

00:43:24.740 more big question uh that i want to take just a moment uh to hear your thoughts on um i know that

00:43:32.060 my wife in particular and other women in our church have have asked you know this question

00:43:38.340 to me saying like, hey, you're going to interview Rachel, ask her this question.

00:43:42.220 So they wanted to hear your thoughts because I think on what have you, your podcast with

00:43:47.820 your sister, Becca, there was an episode or two where from time to time, you guys just

00:43:54.160 discuss the concept of women confessing their sins to one another.

00:43:59.640 So this is the question.

00:44:00.980 What are your thoughts on accountability groups for women and should women regularly confess

00:44:06.100 their sins to other women?

00:44:08.340 If not, what's the proper context? How should that be done?

00:44:14.660 Okay. I just think women need to get a lot more Protestant up in there and realize that 1.00

00:44:20.500 we actually have Jesus. Like you don't need to get in a little cubby. I mean, we're not Catholic. 0.88

00:44:27.300 You don't need to get somewhere and confess your sins to a priest and have him pass it on.

00:44:32.180 You need to, you confess your sins to Christ. Now, if there's something that you need accountability

00:44:37.780 on because you actually feel like this is an area where i'm really keep on failing and i need help

00:44:45.140 that is different i'm not trying to say you don't ever need counsel or encouragement or whatever

00:44:50.420 from other people but i would say your first response should be to look for that accountability 0.95

00:44:56.420 from your husband which women frequently do not do because frequently these things are about their

00:45:02.180 husbands it's frequently some it's frequently a already letting someone else into the marriage

00:45:09.060 in a way that they should not be right and and to confess to your husband something is a lot more

00:45:15.460 like jumping off the high dive it's someone who will be there to see if you're like i've used this 0.93

00:45:22.020 example before but when i realized i think women can lie about all kinds of things and when i had 0.98

00:45:27.540 four really little kids I said a lot of the time I was overwhelmed you know I 0.68

00:45:31.920 had twin infants and two toddlers and I would be like I'm just really overwhelmed

00:45:37.720 you know like I'm I'm overwhelmed and at some point I think I just it just the

00:45:42.640 Lord you know the Holy Spirit he's kind he shows us things I just saw it that

00:45:47.160 nobody's gonna challenge me on this you know like if I say I'm overwhelmed who

00:45:51.600 has the nerve to tell me knock it off suck it up be it you know I mean like

00:45:55.920 nobody uh luke was of course very encouraging but he even he wasn't going to argue with me that

00:46:01.840 you're not overwhelmed right there and so i actually needed to confess to him to say you

00:46:07.200 know what i'm not going to say that anymore this is what god has given me to do this is my normal

00:46:12.480 workload now like this is normal and i'm not going to say that anymore well telling him that

00:46:18.640 man i was actually burning my bridge all the way like i i actually removed a i like or it's sort

00:46:26.960 of like if a woman is lying about having a headache when what the real issue is is that

00:46:31.360 she doesn't feel like doing her work well nobody can hold you accountable on that because they

00:46:36.000 can't actually know right but but if you go tell your husband forgive me for lying about having a

00:46:41.840 headache because i just didn't want to deal with bedtime well you've really burned a bridge there

00:46:47.280 like you're at that's actual account yeah you're right and my dad says all the time about this

00:46:53.900 like accountability groups for teen boys where they can all get together and tell each other

00:46:58.220 that they struggled with porn again he's like there's no accountability there try telling your

00:47:02.280 mother you know like go tell someone outside of this temptation set right what you're struggling

00:47:07.920 with and you will get a whole other level of accountability yeah you start you know and i

00:47:13.900 think that that's the thing is that we like the idea of accountability but

00:47:17.560 we're finding the easiest possible places to get it that won't challenges

00:47:22.420 right so that's with your husband don't think you confess your sins to your

00:47:28.180 friends and do a quick little litmus test of why do I want to tell this

00:47:33.460 friends right like what am I act what do I actually think I'm gonna get out of

00:47:37.360 this because if you're telling a friend who is going to slap you upside the

00:47:42.220 face for doing that you know then then you know you're actually looking for

00:47:46.900 accountability you're actually looking for something but if you're wanting to

00:47:50.860 tell a friend who will be like oh my word I totally did the same thing this

00:47:54.100 week I yes I totally understand and I'll pray for you too but with zero actual

00:47:59.440 challenge that's right in that relationship so that would be how I

00:48:03.940 would say it is that you know a litmus test I think you want friends who are

00:48:08.200 like i would call them running partners in the sense that they are also pursuing christ they

00:48:14.040 are also running after christ and that they have as little tolerance for your sin as they do for

00:48:19.400 their own that's that's what we want in friendship so if you reach out to someone like that with a

00:48:27.160 problem right and you're like here it is you know um and i recently just i recently just heard from

00:48:33.800 a woman who was telling me she's in her group of four accountability partners what they're talking

00:48:40.040 about i mean i assume they talk about other things i don't know but the but the thing that she was

00:48:45.480 contacting me about what they're talking about is their own grief and the way they feel about their

00:48:51.640 husband's struggles with porn right right so i'm like that's a hot mess everyone like this is this

00:48:58.440 is a real problem but you're not doing anything to make it better by calling up all your girlfriends

00:49:04.440 right you know like let me call and disrespect my husband to all of you so that you although

00:49:09.400 i mean it's it's a horrible tangle and in those cases i would say just cut line and get out of

00:49:14.440 that yeah yeah that's yeah that's really helpful i completely agree if i could so i completely

00:49:20.120 agree with that super helpful thank you if i could it's not even a pushback it's just an addition

00:49:24.760 i think the one thing that i would add is so you're saying that litmus test like let's you

00:49:28.120 know there's a couple things to to take into account when i'm when i'm contemplating whether

00:49:32.120 or not i should confess something and which person you know who i should confess this to

00:49:37.000 and and you spoke of of that in in the vein of um accountability is this person gonna call me

00:49:43.800 out is this person um if it's really easy to confess to this person it's probably not a

00:49:49.400 person that i need to confess it to because confession hurts it's it's hard and and like

00:49:54.280 like you said, you're burning, you're burning bridges. You're, you're,

00:49:57.160 you're giving up. You're giving, you're, you're,

00:49:59.600 you're calling someone to hold you accountable.

00:50:00.900 The only thing I wanted to add to that is just, um, so when,

00:50:03.780 when we're doing that litmus test,

00:50:05.100 trying to discern who's the right person to confess to and we're taking into

00:50:08.640 account who will hold me accountable. I think also just, um, another,

00:50:12.720 another litmus test, I just think of Bonhoeffer and, um,

00:50:15.800 and saying that one of the reasons why, you know,

00:50:17.480 we confess our sins one to another, that we might pray for one another,

00:50:20.460 that we might be healed is because at the end of the day, you,

00:50:23.120 started out by saying we confess to Christ. We're Protestant and hearty yes and amen. But I've

00:50:28.620 noticed that my reluctance or my complete negligence to confess to my fellow men sometimes

00:50:37.460 is representative, often is representative of the fact that I'm not even really confessing it to

00:50:42.120 Christ. Meaning that if I'm not comfortable to confess this to anyone, so there's a lot of debate

00:50:48.580 to be had for which men, which women to confess to. But if I'm not willing to confess this to

00:50:54.200 anyone, as far as a fellow man, am I really confessing it to Christ? And so I think sometimes

00:50:59.120 a Protestant goes too far saying, well, I'm confessing to Christ. But my question would be,

00:51:04.220 but if you're not confessing to any, anyone horizontally, you might internally not truly

00:51:10.060 be even confessing it to Christ. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does make sense. But I would,

00:51:15.180 I guess I would bring up something that I think is interesting here. If you're confessing it to

00:51:19.560 Christ, if you know it's a sin, you've confessed it to Christ, then confessing it to other people

00:51:25.960 is actually a testimony to Christ, right? You're like, I have got, this has been put right with

00:51:33.680 Christ. And yeah, you're not trying to keep a super secret, like you're not a sinner or you

00:51:38.620 don't have problems. But that's, I think that what we're supposed to do with one another

00:51:45.540 is that free and easy acknowledgement of our own sinner's relationship to a savior, right?

00:51:52.380 Like it is the fact that yes, I am failing here and I am confessing it and I'm getting

00:51:58.020 it right and Christ is faithful and this is whatever. But I think that many people are

00:52:02.780 trying to use, like they're trying to use their friends as a way of dealing with the

00:52:06.660 sin without ever like there's some kind of catharsis that you said it out loud that you

00:52:11.760 did this and and you're using that as a stand-in for actual confession i i completely agree it's

00:52:17.860 funny it's like on one hand there's like two things that you know you hold in tension on one

00:52:21.860 hand there's a um a tendency a um a leaning towards i'd rather confess to christ than tell

00:52:30.920 any person uh because he's far more merciful than people tend to yeah on the other hand there's like

00:52:38.380 i'd rather confess this to my friends than christ because because christ is so he's on one there's

00:52:46.160 the appeal because he's merciful there's there's the fear because he's also far more holy and you

00:52:52.400 know and so there's this sense of like i don't mind confessing this to this group of friends

00:52:56.140 because they're not holy at all. You know what I mean? Because they won't care.

00:53:01.160 Jesus is the one who already knows about it. He's the one who already knows. And so the reality is

00:53:06.740 telling him is a commitment to breaking ties with the sin. And that's the thing when I was

00:53:18.120 talking about burning bridges, that's the heart of it. Like true confession to Christ is turning

00:53:24.240 your back on your sin you're saying i'm i i'm changing direction here and that's what i think

00:53:31.360 is just really the key about whether or not you should talk to other friends about it is are you

00:53:35.860 actually turning your back on the sin no you're absolutely right when we confess to the omniscient

00:53:40.700 god we're not informing him what we're really doing is who are we surprising right exactly so

00:53:45.800 we're not we're not informing him like we do with our fellow man but what we're really doing is it's

00:53:50.420 simply, it's agreeing with him. I agree with you, Father, and what you say about this, that you call

00:53:56.160 it sin, you call it vile, and I'm agreeing with you, and I am committing to actually changing,

00:54:02.620 to repenting. Okay, so thank you so much, Rachel. I want to give you a moment just to tell people

00:54:08.380 how they can follow you, how they can keep up with what you're doing. Tell us about the Bible

00:54:12.400 reading challenges I told you before we started recording. This episode probably won't air until

00:54:16.980 October, but if you could tell people a little bit about how to follow you, how to keep up with

00:54:21.800 you, if you want to plug a book, tell them about the Bible reading challenge, go ahead and do

00:54:24.700 that right now. Sure. You can find me on Instagram as Rachel Jacobic. I'm on Facebook also, but the

00:54:32.840 Bible reading challenge is where it's at. We do, it's year round. In the summer, we do the New

00:54:38.300 Testament and in the academic year, we do the whole Bible. So if you stick with us any day that

00:54:44.720 you jump in then that day a year later you will have read the new testament twice old testament

00:54:49.460 once and a bunch of epistles and things five or six times um so so jump in by all means and you

00:54:57.800 can find all the details at to the word.com great well thanks again so much rachel and for our

00:55:03.640 listeners if you have not yet become a responder one of our club members um take this opportunity

00:55:10.380 to go ahead and do that because we're going to ask Rachel a couple bonus questions and that'll

00:55:16.420 be exclusive content for our responders. And so if you want to check out the bonus questions and

00:55:22.460 just to whet your appetite, listeners, I'm going to go ahead and say those now. So the first question

00:55:27.840 is, what are some of the distinctions, Rachel, between how you would raise your sons versus how

00:55:32.980 you would raise your daughters? And the second one is, why should Christian women care about beauty 0.93

00:55:38.780 and aesthetics, specifically in the realm of their home? 0.96

00:55:42.420 And how would you respond to a Christian woman 0.73

00:55:45.760 who would say that this is shallow? 1.00

00:55:48.800 So those are our bonus questions.

00:55:50.360 I'm gonna go ahead and come back with Rachel

00:55:52.560 and we're gonna record those.

00:55:54.560 And we encourage you, if you haven't become a responder

00:55:56.960 with Right Response Ministries,

00:55:58.700 take this opportunity and go ahead and do that.

00:56:01.180 Thanks again, Rachel, so much for coming on the show today.

00:56:04.420 We appreciate it.

00:56:05.780 Thanks so much for listening.

00:56:06.720 But real quick, before you go, do us a small favor, take a moment, and leave us a five-star review if you enjoyed the show.

00:56:14.200 This is undoubtedly the best way that you can help us get this biblically faithful content to as many people as possible.

00:56:21.600 Thanks so much.

The NXR Podcast - July 05, 2022

THEOLOGY APPLIED - Are Women’s Ministries Actually Biblical？

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