THEOLOGY APPLIED - Baptists Continue To Struggle With Christendom w Jared Longshore
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 4 minutes
Harmful content
Misogyny
1
sentences flagged
Toxicity
7
sentences flagged
Hate speech
31
sentences flagged
Summary
In this episode of Theology Apply, we discuss the difference between Presbyterianism and Baptism when it comes to political theology and the New Covenant. What does the Bible say about political theology? What does it mean, and why does it matter?
Transcript
00:00:02.080
Many of you are unable to financially support this ministry
00:00:04.780
because you're spending your cash and your lives
00:00:28.220
leaving us a five-star review. Also, perhaps even more effective than that, you can share our
00:00:35.000
podcast with a friend. We hope you'll take the time to do so. Thank you so much. God bless.
00:00:40.660
All right, guys, this one's a little bit different. Jared and I were talking offline,
00:00:45.960
just having a conversation about covenant theology, having a conversation about Presbyterians,
00:00:50.680
Baptists, and it just was so interesting. I don't even know if it's helpful necessarily,
00:00:56.660
but it was so interesting that we decided, you know what, we just got to hit record,
00:01:00.300
see what happens. So this episode is just going to pick up. It's going to feel like it's picking
00:01:04.280
up in the middle of a conversation because that's precisely what it's doing, picking up in the
00:01:07.780
middle of a conversation. And I think some of you will find it helpful. Some of you, quite frankly,
00:01:14.820
will find it confusing. But this is the kind of conversation that Baptists and Presbyterians need
00:01:19.960
to be having right now. We've got to figure out this covenant theology and either Presbyterians
00:01:26.860
are right or Baptists are right, but have some work to do. We have some work to do if we're
0.74
00:01:33.700
going to understand what to do in terms of political theology. That's kind of where we go
00:01:38.620
at the end of the conversation. Yeah. So it's a confusing one, but it's a good one. It's interesting.
00:01:45.940
kind of you get to be a fly on the wall for me and Jared just talking. All right. If you're
00:01:50.440
interested in that, then welcome to another episode of Theology Apply. Mercy Meadows Ranch
00:01:55.540
is a family-owned and operated cattle company producing top quality beef in Central Texas.
00:02:01.300
Mercy Meadows Ranch serves families across the nation by supplying beef that is hormone,
00:02:06.580
antibiotic, and vaccine-free. They ship bulk beef nationwide because they want to enable
00:02:12.900
families to take control over a major portion of their food supply. Their vision is to help create
00:02:19.860
a Christian-based parallel economy and community to become your trusted beef supplier in support
00:02:27.480
of a multi-generational family heritage. And because of their bulk beef deposit launch
00:02:33.900
taking place this summer, they are hosting a giveaway to stuff your family's freezer
00:02:39.380
with their grass-fed, grain-finished, beef-raised right on their ranch.
00:02:45.360
Now, to enter the giveaway, go to the link in the description and enter your email and you'll be all set.
00:02:52.560
Mercy Meadows Ranch. Check out their website, mercymeadowsranch.com.
00:02:57.020
With the banking industry in another tailspin and the Fed ready to raise interest rates once again,
00:03:03.340
many of you are probably asking, when does this madness stop?
00:03:06.740
If you're interested in learning how to establish a family banking system outside of today's mainstream banking insanity, then schedule a call with our sponsors at Private Family Banking.
00:03:19.440
There's a way for individuals and families to put their hard-earned money to work continuously accruing compounding interest and have those resources available as collateral for cash or for financing investments, business, college, and other major life expenditures without going to the big banks for loans.
00:03:42.360
income tax protected safety from stock market losses guaranteed rates of compounding interest
00:03:50.060
and the ability to store up an inheritance for your children's children and avoid the death tax
00:03:57.140
on your estate if this interests you then email our friends at familybankingnowatgmail.com
00:04:05.960
to schedule a call. Again, that's familybankingnowatgmail.com. Send them an email today.
00:04:16.000
Applying God's word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.
00:04:26.300
The Baptistic model says the new covenant is to be the regenerate people,
00:04:31.540
and all the regenerate people make it and the pedo model says well the new covenant
00:04:38.240
does not only contain the regenerate people it also has some of the bad fish in the net too
00:04:43.620
but all the regenerate people make it just like in your current model i know that that's not a
00:04:50.900
hack you don't lose anybody you don't lose a single person you don't lose anybody who's
00:04:54.640
actually regenerate i i understand that i i get that um but again that goes back to what we were
00:05:00.580
talking about earlier in terms of the bad fish caught in the net, I don't think... See, I just
00:05:06.300
think there are more categories. So for you, it's like this net is the new covenant. It's going to
00:05:11.640
have some good fish and bad fish. Whereas for me and Jesus, I might add, the net is the kingdom.
00:05:16.920
The kingdom is the actual terminology. And I think it's a world-catching net. So we were talking
00:05:23.280
earlier for people who are... Because this was too good. This is our offline conversation. I was
00:05:28.460
like dude we just got to record it because people are going to want to hear this but i i think this
00:05:31.880
is a world encompassing net you know and as we're both post mill we're both fans of christendom we're
00:05:37.660
both working towards that end um we're both presbyterians we're both presbyterians only one
00:05:44.520
of us currently knows it um no but uh but this net is a world encompass that was funny this net
00:05:50.580
is a world encompassing net and so so what we said earlier was you were like um you were asking
00:05:55.880
me, well, do I think that the kingdom is synonymous with the invisible church or the
00:06:03.500
visible church? And I said, neither. And this is where I would agree with Joe Boone, what he wrote
00:06:07.840
with his Mission of God book, Before Ruler of Kings, but Mission of God. You've got the invisible,
00:06:14.960
and I did this for people who are watching, if you're listening on the podcast, it won't be
00:06:18.080
super helpful, but I'll describe it. You got just like a target with three circles, the center
00:06:21.960
circle the smallest circle invisible church that's those who are truly saved regenerate beyond that
00:06:27.780
middle circle working out that's visible church beyond that this biggest widest circle that's
00:06:34.440
kingdom kingdom is bigger not just in the invisible church it's bigger than the visible church meaning
00:06:39.340
uh meaning that i believe in the final days of christendom well in the final days of christendom
00:06:44.960
probably everybody's going to church and a member and has been baptized but let's say before those
00:06:48.800
days. Let's say, well, right now, I think America in the 20th century, maybe back up like 50 years,
00:06:56.320
is a great example of the kingdom being broader than not just the invisible church, but also the
00:07:01.460
visible church. That somebody who doesn't go to church at all, has never been baptized, isn't on
00:07:06.160
any Southern Baptist church roster, that person still is, they're in that net, the kingdom net,
00:07:13.340
because they're breathing and inhaling Christendom,
00:07:19.560
They're in a justice system that is based on the Christian worldview.
00:07:24.420
They're experiencing the benefits of produce and all ingenuity
00:07:29.260
and all these things with capitalism within the Christian worldview.
0.95
00:07:34.060
But I don't think that those three circles are going to keep you
00:07:41.860
one of them is the visible church and um at least as so the west mission confession of faith says
00:07:49.980
the visible church is the kingdom of god which seems to be you're basically affirming that by
00:07:55.960
saying it's the second circle kingdom of god is the second circle no no no i'm saying kingdom of
00:08:01.260
god god is third circle invisible first visible second kingdom third does the kingdom spread
00:08:07.640
through all three or is the kingdom like just the third round no no no the kingdom and it is it
00:08:13.000
encompasses everything okay first circle yeah so you still have this second circle that is both
00:08:18.180
the visible church and the kingdom of god yes you're coming in that way we were talking earlier
00:08:22.300
if you if you have an unregenerate um scott anniel tweeted and you were to you tweeted back to him
00:08:28.500
about the whole christian nationalism thing and you were making the point that um if you have a
00:08:34.960
unregenerate man in the church. And then you excommunicate them. You were saying, do you have
00:08:39.200
to say, well, we weren't really a Christian church until we excommunicated them because we had one
0.97
00:08:44.680
bad apple in the, in the bushel. Right. So, um, and your point is no, you, you, your point would
1.00
00:08:54.100
be, we were still a Christian church, even though we had one bad fish in the net. Right. I, I, I'm
00:08:58.540
the head of a Christian family right now. And I have a five-year-old, a three-year-old, a two-year-old
00:09:08.580
Yes, and not just because it's a legitimate marriage.
00:09:13.580
I would disagree with, in terms of that particular argument,
0.93
00:09:16.860
because you could, because the whole point is that one of them has to be a Christian.
0.59
00:09:21.920
So if you're saying, well, this is a legitimate marriage,
00:09:24.480
the children are born in wedlock, within, you know, an actual marriage covenant,
00:09:29.400
um then why did why the emphasis the not just emphasis but insistence on one of the parents
00:09:34.960
um having to be christian because because james white and i we would all agree that you could
00:09:40.600
have two muslims so long as it's a man and a woman biological man and woman of legal age
00:09:46.360
that are married um their children would be holy if holy just meant born in wedlock legitimate
0.99
00:09:52.740
children and not bastards um no holy means more than that uh because because it's yeah
0.98
00:09:59.140
go ahead so kids are holy yes um i read the bible jared i read the bible i know you do
0.99
00:10:07.600
i know you do and uh so those little covenant children they little covenant children
00:10:12.240
well yes and no what which see that's the that's where i struggle which covenant i think part of
00:10:19.820
the baptist problem the particular baptist problem is it this is what i think i'll say it in a
00:10:24.440
nutshell i think presbyterians stretch the new covenant i think that's the problem
00:10:28.560
and baptists think they they pretend as though in this current gospel age uh that there's that
00:10:35.660
there is no covenant but the new covenant so so baptists behave and they practice their theology
00:10:41.280
as though it's the implications of there only being one uh covenant in existence in in human
00:10:47.360
history at this point in human history there's a new covenant that's it um and and i just feel
00:10:52.220
like no there's a marriage is a covenant of an employee with with a business you can have a
00:10:57.280
business covenant. That's what a contract is. It's a covenant. Citizenship, national citizen.
00:11:01.460
I am in a covenant. America is a covenant nation, and I'm a citizen of that covenant nation. I have
00:11:07.780
certain duties, certain rights, responsibilities, and nations can have a covenant with God. And
00:11:12.920
America particularly, most certainly has a Christian founding. It was ratified and covenanted
00:11:18.820
to God. Currently, America as a nation, I believe, it's not that it's no longer in a covenant with
00:11:24.620
god it is currently in apostasy it is it is breaking a covenant with god but not the new
00:11:29.840
covenant that's a different covenant so so um in genesis 17 7 god promises swears swears a covenant
00:11:39.420
to abraham saying i will be god to you and to your children after you in their generations
00:11:44.680
um and you're a son of a son of abraham child of abraham so has god made the same promise to you
00:11:52.160
the promise being that my offspring will be that god will be god to you and to your children after
00:11:59.220
you in their generations okay so first first yes of course my answer is yes so i won't i won't
00:12:06.300
annoy you and the listener by by uh doing what politicians do so one word answer yes but real
00:12:11.760
quick let's go back into a god in what sense i i know what he meant but to abraham like it was it
00:12:18.420
it was a covenantal saving God, a father, God, father, the God, right.
00:12:23.240
Isn't that what you, not just the net. Cause the net I think is different.
00:12:26.540
That's, that's a global encompassing kingdom. God. So, so on one hand,
00:12:31.040
it's like God, God is a God to everyone, right? Like I, you know,
00:12:34.260
I'll often preach and say, you know, people say like, um, you know,
00:12:37.580
some have, uh, have made Jesus savior, but few have made him Lord.
00:12:40.800
I think it's the exact opposite. He's Lord, whether you love him, hate him,
00:12:43.820
bless him, curse him. He's Lord of all period. Uh, because,
00:12:46.860
God the Father has crowned him Lord and bestowed upon him that name, Lord, the highest name. So
00:12:52.920
he's Lord of all because he bought it. It's a blood-bought world. And so he is your Lord,
00:12:57.600
whether you like it or not, but he may not be your Savior. So I would say Jesus is actually
00:13:01.240
Lord of all, Savior of some. Now, with that God being a God, I think in that context of Genesis
00:13:07.240
15, it's a salvific God. It's a father adoption God. Now, do I believe that that same promise is
00:13:12.920
mind for my posterity, my children, that God will be not just Lord as Christ is Lord of all kingdom
00:13:20.220
language, but Father God, salvific new covenant language. Yeah, I believe that one too for my
00:13:27.200
children, not all children, but my children. And I have a reason for that because unconditional
00:13:31.860
election, I don't think is arbitrary election. God's predestinated ends of who he saves are
00:13:37.300
bought about by his predestinated means. And if God wanted my kids to be pagans in terms of means,
00:13:43.640
he would have given them to my pagan neighbor, but he gave them to me. And I believe his reason
0.85
00:13:48.200
for that. I can't get, he doesn't owe me this, but I believe his reason for giving these children to
00:13:52.600
me is so that they would be washed in the word. They would be immersed, but immersed in gospel
00:14:00.460
preaching in the home, in the church, in every way. And I don't think that God gave them to me
00:14:06.180
so that they'd be immersed in those means of grace in order to to prove that his means of
00:14:12.180
grace are impotent but rather to the praise of his glorious grace by proving that his means work
00:14:17.320
and when so the covenant that god made to abraham to be god to you and two children after you
00:14:26.020
is a covenant that god has made also to you yes to be god to you and to your children after you
00:15:02.160
Now that you're recording, he's going to be strong.
00:15:09.140
In person, he's a little account, you know, but in his letters, that's the thing.
00:15:19.220
I'm actually kinder in person than I am on the internet.
00:15:22.680
But all that being said, oh, man, I threw myself off.
00:15:28.760
I said, why does Abraham Kids get the sign but not yours?
00:15:31.800
Oh, so I think I could be wrong. You could be wrong. That's what I was saying. I think it's
00:15:35.440
timing. Of course, my kids are going to get the sign. Of course. And that's where I would differ
00:15:40.740
from Baptist again, is I actually do believe that baptism is a sign and seal of the covenant. I do.
0.99
00:15:48.040
And Baptists don't really like that language. And I'm totally fine with using the term sacrament.
0.98
00:15:52.240
Ordinance, schmordenance, it's a sacrament. It is holy. And so all that being said,
00:15:57.240
my kids are going to get this sign of the new covenant. This is what I would say in a nutshell,
00:16:03.780
and then you can pick it apart. I would say in the old covenant, the sign follows natural birth
00:16:10.540
and the new covenant, the sign follows new birth, spiritual birth. So my kids are going to get the
00:16:16.560
sign and they're going to get it as best I can. Now I understand that God alone sees the heart
00:16:20.620
and I don't have regeneration goggles and Baptists get this wrong all the time, inevitably.
00:16:24.980
and we got to you know we can't pretend like you know everyone in our church is regenerate because
00:16:30.580
they're not baptists miss it on baptism just as much as presbyterians do in terms of who we
00:16:36.060
baptize but my point is we do our best we're doing our due diligence so i'm going to look at my
00:16:40.880
children i'm going to do my best discerning as they're as a covenant head of my family
00:16:45.740
and i'm going to apply the sign of baptism the moment that they're regenerate is best i can
00:16:53.200
you know and i know i'll fail in that and and honestly a baptist who baptizes people on a
00:16:57.560
credible profession of faith will probably baptize in the final analysis more apostates than a
00:17:03.400
presbyterian who baptizes 10 children in one household but the parents um he knows are are
00:17:09.920
going to disciple the heck out of those children um you've got a probably a statistical better
00:17:14.880
chance of those 10 children growing up and actually being regenerate than 10 adults coming
00:17:20.080
and making a theologically sound profession of faith.
00:17:24.260
Because God works, God's ends come about through his means.
00:17:28.240
And unconditional election is truly unconditional, but it is not arbitrary.
00:17:34.000
Well, I was just emailing with a guy last night who was a Baptist.
00:17:40.280
And it's just, I find the covenant absolutely fascinating.
00:17:45.100
And I don't believe it's a peculiar niche doctrine.
00:17:52.180
I really do think it has explanatory power for so much.
00:18:04.280
It helps us to understand the church is this Mother Kirk stuff.
00:18:08.980
The Jerusalem, which is above, is our mother, and she's mother of us all.
00:18:14.140
she's free and mother of us all um there's just so many implications for this for this particular
00:18:20.200
covenant and it's so fascinating to talk about it right now because of the kind of um conversation
00:18:26.980
that's going on regarding our nation how we're gonna how we're gonna um shape culture how we're
00:18:32.400
going to deal with civil government but you agree that these are different covenants like you're
00:18:38.220
you're not saying that like so you're saying we need this covenantal language and and paradigm
00:18:43.860
framework to make sense theological sense of so many different things um in our culture in our
00:18:51.220
society in our nation in our world and i agree but they're not all the new covenant there are
00:18:56.240
more than one covenant like we're not saying um like like the part of the problem that baptist
00:19:03.820
baptists are just losing their minds right now is because like well we're not a christian nation we
00:19:07.360
can't be a you can't uh there's basically they're saying there's only one thing in all the universe
00:19:12.340
that can be a Christian and it's an individual person who's regenerate. You can't have a Christian
0.95
00:19:17.260
business, can't even have a Christian family if, you know, if the kids are little and haven't been
0.96
00:19:21.300
regenerate yet, or if one of the older kids, you know, adult son apostatizes or what, you know,
00:19:25.980
John Piper currently does not, he does not have a Christian family because of his son, Abraham
00:19:31.940
Piper. That's just stupid. That's just, that's asinine. And so like, I think Baptists need to
1.00
00:19:37.800
knock that out, but I don't think that you have to say that that's all, there are more than one
0.58
00:19:42.320
covenant there are national covenants there are family covenants there are business covenants
00:19:47.060
there are um i think there are local visible church covenants and there is also the new covenant
00:19:52.880
pick that up yeah yeah well i think the the whole deal about what can you call a christian
00:20:00.140
is one of the downstream conversations from talking about covenant theology and what is
00:20:06.620
the covenant of grace what's the nature of the covenant of grace of course that paedo scheme
00:20:10.980
One Covenant, Two Administrations, Old and New, claims that you actually have a sworn oath from God,
00:20:18.180
our Heavenly Father, to man on earth of grace in and by Jesus Christ in the Old Testament,
00:20:25.500
that you have saints that were saved back there by grace through faith in Christ, which all affirm.
00:20:32.280
But the Pato idea is that that salvation was in and through covenant.
00:20:40.400
in and through the covenant of grace that was actually inaugurated, that was actually established.
00:20:49.800
Genesis 15, I would take it all the way back to immediately after the fall with Adam,
00:20:55.880
such that there's never been people saved outside of an inaugurated covenant of grace.
00:21:04.100
And Herman Wittsius signals this in his economy of the covenants.
00:21:08.800
What did he say about the clothing of Adam and Eve?
00:21:14.900
You have blood laid, which is bond and blood, sovereignly hamstered.
00:21:23.120
You have the promise, which everybody says Genesis 3.15 is the first enunciation of the promise.
00:21:29.220
And this is where I think the 1689ers have a really – this is where the 1689 stuff was interesting to me.
00:21:35.000
Of course, they claim that the covenant of grace is revealed in the Old Testament, inaugurated in the New.
00:21:40.860
And the paedos want to say, no, no, no, it was actually established in the Old.
00:21:46.280
But if you do stop at Abraham, then you could technically hold to that 1689 scheme from Adam to Abraham, right?
00:21:54.280
Where you have people saved by promise, not by the covenant of grace.
00:22:04.320
So there's a lot of conversation with Owen about the Mosaic Covenant, because he did stand out on the Mosaic Covenant from the standard Pato position.
00:22:14.600
He would say like you, starting with Adam, or what?
00:22:30.500
He was the first apostate, and that's a further excommunication.
00:22:32.320
communication. So his further exile is a proto-excommunication. John Ball, who is kind of
00:22:40.220
the chief covenant theologian of Westminster, he did not go to Westminster, but was highly respected
00:22:44.880
by those who did, and those who did signed off on his covenant theology that was published
00:22:49.320
in and around the time of the Westminster Assembly, speaks that way, that Cain was in,
00:22:55.400
right that um that this is a further exile so you actually have this um this historic
00:23:03.500
established people via covenant the covenant of grace and so the covenant of grace is not merely
00:23:10.700
um like god the father swearing an oath to individuals as if you were having god up here
00:23:16.780
all the individuals down here and you have a bunch of lines like right yeah no no there's a federal
00:23:22.240
go ahead he and he it's like as if christ had to die like a thousand times to get a thousand
00:23:27.860
christians in no he dies once for his bride um this one bride one bread this whole all of our
00:23:35.740
corporate understanding is kind of being recovered in our american individualism which in many ways
00:23:41.580
is a wonderful thing we're adding to that this corporate mindset what is what is our you know
00:23:47.500
if we don't like the intersectional victim identities how about a covenantal identity
00:23:51.340
with all of the saints but as soon as you start to think that way you got to say well who's in
00:23:54.960
who's out and is this a real thing or are we just kind of is it an all-mill scheme where like up
00:24:00.200
here it's real like the millennium's up here but not down here on earth and i think that's similar
00:24:04.700
thinking with the covenant of grace like up here in heaven but it really wasn't on earth in the
00:24:08.320
old testament one but that's rejected through covenant through the paedo scheme once no god
00:24:13.700
actually covenants and swear when the cutting and the the blood is actually constituting an
00:24:20.120
organized people. It's constituting a real thing, an objective covenant, a thing over into which God
00:24:27.420
is saying, I'm your God and you are my people. And then, of course, there are people that fall
00:24:32.260
out of that. They're covenant breakers. But you have this covenant people all the way throughout
00:24:38.100
the world. And I think this is essentially what Augustine was talking about. When you talk about
00:24:41.780
the city of God, and it's within the city of man, right? That's all covenant language. That's
00:24:49.060
But God has cut a covenant, and in doing so, he established his people.
00:24:57.580
So I wrote a book called The Case for the Christian Family, Covenantal Solution to the Dissolving American Family.
00:25:07.140
You always hear this language of one covenant, two administrations.
00:25:09.820
But I don't think people really think about it, what you're talking about.
00:25:12.620
The word administration can sound like getting thing A to individual B.
00:25:17.580
like um and i got this from sam renahan actually this is very helpful who's a 1689 federalist
00:25:22.920
brilliant brilliant guy and done great work um getting thing a to individual b as in i administer
00:25:29.200
lotion i administer lotion to my daughter's knee but that's not what the theologians are talking
00:25:34.820
about when they're saying administration they mean something more akin to um the washington or the
00:25:40.340
jefferson administration right which has clear members you're either you know there's the biden
00:25:47.020
administration now you and i are not a part of that biden administration praise be to the lord
00:25:50.780
and but but we know that you're a card-carrying member of this or you're not that's the idea of
00:25:56.800
administration so you have this this constituted organized people this entity that is signed and
00:26:01.300
and marked out on earth um that's what we mean by old administration and new administration
00:26:08.960
thus and that therefore you have substance and that god has always had this people
00:26:15.780
Israel was a kingdom of priests, and we are still a kingdom of priests.
00:26:19.740
But then how would you, what verbiage would you use for that, you know, in terms of the way that you're defining administration?
00:26:26.160
But then it's like, okay, so the old administration had Abraham as its head, and then the new administration has Christ?
00:26:34.140
So, I believe that Christ was the mediator of the old covenant.
00:26:43.900
Yeah. Yeah. Which means it's just another thing that you say that shows everybody that you're not a good Baptist. I don't want you to say that. Because the Baptist position, 1689 position at least, would be that it was instituted by angels, as Galatians says, and therefore that Christ is not the mediator of this.
00:27:05.420
But I think what distinguishes his mediatorial work is it's the pre-incarnate Christ who is mediator of that old covenant.
00:27:14.160
What makes the new covenant better is that this is the second Adam.
00:27:17.080
This is the virgin born, crucified, buried, risen, ascended Christ who is now mediating.
00:27:21.900
The one same covenant, because it doesn't pay to ideas, is one covenant.
00:27:27.160
It's like, well, it has a God-man as the mediator, right?
00:27:31.480
That's where the potency, the new covenant is far better.
00:27:43.860
Because Christ has risen, because he's taken on flesh, lived, died, risen, and ascended.
00:27:51.720
Like, I mean, Old Testament saints were regenerate.
00:27:54.120
Old Testament saints also, I believe, were Holy Spirit indwelt.
00:27:58.020
So they were both regenerate and they had the Holy Spirit.
00:28:01.480
But the Holy Spirit, one of his ministries is to exude to us here on this side of the
00:28:05.720
cross, New Testament saints, he exudes within us the spirit of the resurrected Christ, which
00:28:15.460
David had the spirit, which is why he prays, do not take your spirit from me.
00:28:19.400
In Psalm 51, he had the spirit, but the spirit was not, as Paul uses them interchangeably
00:28:26.520
in the New Testament, he says the spirit, and then he'll say the spirit of Christ, as
00:28:31.140
And we can, by necessary inference, or at least by reasonable implication, we can see the spirit of the risen Christ.
00:28:38.440
Well, David did not have the spirit that is the spirit of the risen Christ.
00:28:47.340
And so seeing that, that's the potency of the new covenant, and that's the potency of this Pentecost and all of that.
00:28:52.260
You're dead right, the spirit of the risen Christ.
00:29:00.740
is i've used the illustration of an ice cream shop serving up ice cream so i've heard you i've
00:29:09.820
heard you do this go ahead i've done this have you heard this yeah go ahead did it make you want
00:29:14.700
did it make you like hunger for some baskin robbins when i did it uh yeah yeah probably
00:29:20.040
yearning and actually it also made me think of vody bacham back in the day where he would talk
00:29:24.420
about providence and sovereignty and your favorite flavor of ice cream and your taste buds you didn't
00:29:29.300
choose them and blah blah blah anyways did he do that yeah a lot of theologians like ice cream
00:29:33.740
maybe i'll stick with it because it's kind of like subliminal voting messages coming through
00:29:38.140
you know um so the covenant administration back to the washington jefferson administration
00:29:43.960
now liken that idea of a clearly identified group and organized people and organized entity
00:29:49.660
liken that to an ice cream shop um when a man calls upon the name of the lord he enters into
00:29:55.560
the ice cream shop. He trusts the Lord Jesus Christ. He eats the ice cream by faith, right?
00:30:00.860
Trust Christ. That guy's going to heaven. But when he calls upon the name of the Lord,
00:30:05.860
he brings his whole family into the ice cream shop. The whole family comes in. The banner over
00:30:10.580
the ice cream shop is, I am your God and you are my people. This is the administration. This is
00:30:15.420
the covenant idea. You are all a part of this body. And this is where we have language of the
00:30:23.660
kingdom of god is the net which we've already talked about and are there bad fish in there yeah
00:30:27.660
are there people in the ice cream shop that are not partaking of the ice cream yes there are
00:30:31.580
um ought they to be yes all of that um and then you have the old ice cream shop that is
00:30:40.140
renovated so the new covenant is a renovation a glorious renovation of this one same ice cream
00:30:47.180
shop is the one that's another way to talk about one covenant two administrations it's the same
00:30:51.980
ice cream shop but it was it was closed for three days give or take you know and and then was uh
00:30:59.140
and then a grand reopening bigger and better okay but in what way is what way is it better
00:31:05.940
this renovated ice cream shop because we've said the spirit of the risen christ but this is what
00:31:10.360
i wanted to ask for our listener because this is what they're going to be asking this is what i'm
00:31:13.960
asking the spirit of the risen christ yes and amen that's better um but how what does it what
00:31:19.460
what does it do because i want to say okay one of the things that it does is it keeps you
00:31:24.260
you know so i feel like that's a nice benefit yeah so um let me let me say something more about
00:31:33.060
where i was going and then i'm gonna answer your question all right so um i think i think a lot of
00:31:37.680
american evangelicals particularly um don't have an ice cream shop they just think ice cream stand
00:31:45.000
in the street serving up ice cream right billy graham style right trust them you're right call
00:31:50.800
upon the name of the lord be safe and that's what's so beautiful about it that's why i love it to
00:31:53.900
pieces because it's got the ice cream and it's just it's just you individual trust believe and
00:32:00.900
all of that's true and that's kind of my point in the pato scheme you have you still have the ice
00:32:05.180
cream you have the same message you're serving it up right but you just have this shop idea that i
00:32:10.280
would say is somewhat like an apples of gold in settings of silver, right? We both have the apple
00:32:15.940
of gold, but this covenant idea is like the setting of silver in which the apple of gold is.
00:32:22.580
What's better about the new, one of the things about the breakability of it,
00:32:26.740
I believe that you could walk out, the person that had not eaten the ice cream
00:32:33.200
in the old administration could walk out, right? Could walk out of the ice cream shop.
00:32:40.280
which would be and for the record that'd be about nine 98 of them walked out without eating ice
00:32:47.340
cream under the old administration well i haven't ran all the math but a lot of a lot of people
00:32:52.320
walked out a lot of that's yeah and that's what's better about the new is that not as many people
00:32:57.000
are going to walk out i'd like to say none of them walk out you know what you mean that doesn't
00:33:01.120
that sound great uh yeah it sounds great you know you feel like that's just like a democrat thing
00:33:05.940
right they got great solutions but but but no way to actually free ice cream for everyone
00:33:10.580
you know like i'm not i'm not you're not gonna call you're not gonna fall for that position i
00:33:15.560
held for uh 37 years of my life a democratic position i'm not gonna do that okay um all right
00:33:20.560
but um so john ball gives like seven or eight um points here on the superiority of the new
00:33:30.960
administration what's better about this renovation and i think there's just many
00:33:35.220
ways to talk about it one is i think the chief one is that it has the virgin born son of god
00:33:42.020
crucified risen buried ascended into heaven sat down at the right hand of the father christ i
00:33:48.660
mean that's great that's huge i mean that's just settle off everybody knows it's better right
00:33:52.940
the lord jesus came and visited this place visited this earth uh came here walked here
00:33:58.480
died rose again and when he ascended into heaven um you know we are seated with christ in the
00:34:04.240
heavenly places um moses and elijah were talking to him about his departure you know and it's
00:34:11.380
interesting that the firmament oh this is a little bit of sign up but it's super cool like firmament
00:34:15.040
um on day two is created and says it divides the waters above and the waters below and then when
00:34:21.500
john goes to heaven he sees in in heaven he sees a sea crystal sea and jesus's exodus would be
00:34:28.100
through the sea through the firmament into the temple made without hands okay so he enters into
00:34:34.000
the true tent not made with hands that the earthly tabernacle was modeled after and we are now that
00:34:42.920
earthly tabernacle but our head is in heaven that's a far more potent ice cream shop that's a far
00:34:48.860
that's an indestructible ice cream shop which is where i think the breakability of the covenant
00:34:54.960
comes in i think the betterness of the new covenant is not that it can't be broken by an
00:35:03.120
individual like an individual can't walk out of the shop no an individual can still walk out of
00:35:08.360
the shop not as many as the old but the new covenant this new renovated ice cream shop will
00:35:14.040
never be renovated again it will never have that three-day closure again it will never it will
00:35:19.280
never have the um the romans are never marching in in 80 70 to destroy this thing this new covenant
00:35:27.240
is what it's the new covenant itself as an ice cream shop that cannot be broken it's not it's
00:35:33.940
not going to get termites that's the idea and the knowledge of the earth is lord is going to cover
00:35:38.860
the earth as the waters cover the sea this thing is going to grow so you got to add to the metaphor
00:35:42.560
this this new covenant ice cream shop is going to grow and fill the earth and it's an indestructible
00:35:46.880
covenant that's where the indestructibility comes in right now that yeah i i get it i think that's
00:35:53.680
a good analogy. Um, but I don't, I don't really, it's kind of like visiting, you know, some of the
00:36:01.440
glorious cathedrals. I remember going to Germany with my dad when I was in high school and you
00:36:07.760
visit some of these places and you know, but they're empty and it's like, man, this is glorious.
00:36:11.700
This is, I mean, this is Christendom once upon a time and by God's grace, you know, we'll get it
00:36:16.880
back. But it's empty. And I don't want just a better ice cream shop. And I don't want better
00:36:26.280
ice cream because I know that that doesn't do. Ice cream's good. Ice cream's ice cream. And
00:36:30.880
there's always been good ice cream all the way since the promise in the garden right after sin
00:36:36.280
entered the world to crush the head of the serpent. So it's been the same ice cream and
00:36:42.080
it's always been good ice cream. And there was, you know, a shanty ice cream shop and you're
00:36:47.700
saying, and now there's a great ice cream shop and it's one that'll never need to be
00:36:50.740
redone, but it is going to grow and fill the whole earth. And so I'm down with all that,
00:36:58.720
but I don't want it just to be this big ice cream shop. I want it also, and it's not going
00:37:01.800
to be better ice cream, but I want it to, I want it to be, I want the owner of this ice cream shop
00:37:07.560
to be kind of like Nacho Libre, like his sidekick, where he just doesn't give you a choice. He's
00:37:11.800
just like baptize like and i want that owner to be wearing this apron and holding like double
00:37:17.540
fisting you know like dual wielding two ice cream cones in each hand and everyone in the shop whether
00:37:23.180
they like it or not he's gonna he's gonna open their mouth he's gonna put that ice cream on
00:37:27.260
their tongue um and he's like you will like ice full like roman catholic vestments and like lord
00:37:32.240
supper on the tongue no but it's just like because ice cream's awesome the only people who don't like
00:37:36.000
ice cream are people who have not had it and he knows that and he's a good ice cream shop uh and
00:37:40.580
so he won't leave it to their choice he's just like i'm gonna give you some ice cream and and
00:37:44.380
then everybody who tastes the ice cream sticks with the ice cream because ice cream is delicious
00:37:48.820
like that no one falls out because i i feel like yeah but here's the thing joel but here's the
00:37:55.540
thing the scheme you're talking what you're really maintaining and keeping that the paydough scheme
00:38:00.960
keeps is that everybody who eats the ice cream is in and always in it will never be gone that's the
00:38:08.860
point you're making pastorally and it's like it's the right sentiment it's the right love and it's
00:38:13.220
all true and it's true in both schemes i think the trouble is like you're wanting a ice you're
00:38:19.100
wanting a new covenant ice cream shop and i think what you end up with practically is you don't end
00:38:23.880
up with an ice cream shop you don't actually have an earthly organized entity of which you're a part
00:38:29.500
and this is back to your scott anniel tweet where you you know he was saying not every not every
00:38:35.700
citizen in the nation is going to be a christian therefore you can't have christian nations and
00:38:39.260
you're saying hold on that doesn't sound right because you have unbelievers in your church
0.74
00:38:44.320
and the question is you don't have a christian church right but the thing that's really underneath
00:38:50.400
that is is the guy sitting at table with you at the lord's supper who is a baptized christian
00:38:56.100
but if you could see into his heart and realize he's unregenerate the question is is he genuinely
00:39:02.100
in the covenant with you? Is he in this covenant of grace? Is he in the visible church? Is he in
00:39:10.000
that thing? Yes to the second. You asked two questions. Yes to the second, no to the first.
00:39:17.160
Is he really in this covenant with me? No. Is he in the visible church? Yes. And that is a covenant.
00:39:23.000
It's just not the new covenant. That's where I keep coming back to. We've got to have more than
00:39:27.080
one covenant that the new covenant is for the invisible church uh the kingdom of god is much
00:39:32.220
more broad than than the invisible church the visible church is is that is that new covenant
00:39:37.140
you're talking about that is just for the invisible church is it uh an organized entity
00:39:43.720
with on earth with that has signs and seals or is it uh like an effectual calling of god to an
00:39:51.280
individual that keeps him it's definitely an effectual call that keeps him yeah and the
00:40:08.200
paydos have that too they just don't call it the new covenant yeah they call it the decretal elect
00:40:13.460
like a like a covenant within the covenant it's like there's the new covenant and then there's
00:40:17.480
right or factual calling and the problem is yeah and you're dead right and that's that's true in
00:40:22.900
both kratos and patos have that calvinist kratos and patos have that idea that keep that keeping
00:40:28.880
that you're calling the new covenant that it keeps them we have that but the if you end if you went
00:40:35.800
the other route and said well yeah that new covenant that i'm talking about that keeps people
00:40:39.740
really is this organized entity then what you have is you have a church within a church you
00:40:43.940
but an actual like one with visible signs so then you're like but we have signs and seals for the
00:40:48.900
visible right the excommunicated guy really was a part of but then there's this actual other
00:40:54.480
organized entity within that organized entity that has its own signs and seals and right there's no
00:41:01.420
there's no way because you couldn't you couldn't do that you'd have to be omniscient you'd have to
00:41:05.660
have election goggles you'd have you know like you i mean that's like an illuminati you know
00:41:10.200
secret back room club that like, so of all the best that we got for organizing in terms of signs
00:41:16.440
and seals, sacraments, gathering membership, um, the, the best chance we've got for any,
00:41:23.580
you know, institution, the, the institution, institutionalized church, the visible church,
00:41:29.700
local churches, and they can partner in larger ways. They can be, you know, they can be present,
00:41:33.600
you know, have presbyteries and denominations and networks like that. But that's what we have. We
00:41:37.820
have this this big honking thing that's a mess right now with all these divisions and all these
00:41:43.160
fractures and you know but this this visible thing and it's a but it's a real thing it's a messy
00:41:48.160
thing it's it's it's wrong in a lot of ways but it is a legitimate thing it's a and it's legitimate
00:41:53.280
in the sight of god it's legitimate from the scripture and it should be legitimate in our in
00:41:57.740
our in our eyes um but i think it's it's but i don't think that that is it's just these circles
00:42:05.600
I just that the visible church I don't think is the new covenant it's it's invisible church that's
00:42:10.520
new covenant synonymous invisible church new covenant then visible church what's up that's
00:42:16.760
the effectual called right and that's the root that's why don't you disagree with me I know you
00:42:21.060
want to keep call it you keep calling it the new covenant and I'm asking you what is it because
00:42:25.220
is a covenant like a solemn oath of God to those people that organizes them into a
00:42:31.280
into an entity, into a little ice cream shop within an ice cream shop.
00:42:41.220
Well, the New Covenant, I believe baptism and the Lord's Supper
00:42:55.080
recognizing that not everyone who is a member of the visible church
00:42:58.860
is a member of the new covenant invisible church but we're doing we do the best we can
00:43:08.840
you know in the same way that but you just said the new covenant signs and seals are baptism
00:43:15.340
and the lord's supper visible church is our best bet it's our it's our we've got we've got to do
00:43:22.300
something we've got to give we've got to baptize someone we've got to give the lord's supper to
00:43:26.140
someone but it sounds like you're saying the new covenant links up with the visible church not this
00:43:30.040
no no no i'm saying the invisible it's here's the invisible but we give the sacraments to the
00:43:36.520
visible right because we know the sacraments of the new covenant because the because the visible
00:43:40.900
we know we know that the invisible church members will be are are in this visible church they'll be
00:43:46.400
present there and you know what i mean so it's it's where's the best place to go we're not going
00:43:52.300
to go around to people's houses we're not going to do it at uh the fourth of july party we're not
00:43:56.880
you know like what's where's the best context on earth to show up and and to administer the supper
00:44:03.340
the visible church that's the that's that's the place to do it because that's where
00:44:08.900
the people of god are supposed to be that's the one place where we're guaranteed that they're
00:44:12.780
going to be you know and so we do it there but we know that that they're going to be there
00:44:17.960
some other people can be there yeah it's not just the place where we administer the new covenant
00:44:23.800
sacraments the new covenant sacraments are new covenant sacraments they're the the cup is the
00:44:32.520
blood of the new covenant and it's given to the visible church it's the cup of the new covenant
00:45:10.720
and ascended Christ at the right hand of the Father interceding on our behalf,
00:45:15.440
that sounds weird saying that's a better Christ,
00:45:18.800
but it's the same Christ, but in a better state,
00:45:24.680
And so in that sense, better mediator, better covenant.
00:45:31.920
Right, and therefore you don't want anybody walking out of it.
00:45:34.500
Yeah, well, and also just, I like the old-timey statement
00:45:46.560
paedo-baptists, it kind of will. You know what I mean?
0.99
00:45:50.520
We're getting a little loosey-goosey with it. It's splashing over
00:45:59.880
I would encourage anybody that wants to go deeper on this.
00:46:09.240
So, because he goes, well, one of the places he would go, 2 Peter 2, 2 Peter 2, 1 through, well, just verse 1 of 2 Peter chapter 2.
00:46:20.220
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
00:46:35.240
I mean, if they brought in damnable heresies and they're going to be swiftly destroyed, these guys are going to hell.
00:46:46.880
And Baal is actually, he deals with the atonement in his work on the covenant.
0.72
00:46:51.460
Like after he goes through the whole covenant scheme, he goes to atonement.
00:46:56.620
He talks a little bit about darts, sufficient, efficient stuff, but then pivots to talk about what he's really focusing on,
00:47:03.120
Which is, he says, look, he says it's totally wrong to say Jesus bought everybody in the world.
00:47:13.300
But he essentially says it's not wrong to say Jesus bought some people, these, who are going to go to hell.
00:47:19.540
Now, what you have to immediately say is this was not, the atonement was not purchasing them unto heaven.
00:47:26.260
That's not the particular buying that he was doing for these covenant people.
00:47:32.680
So these were men who were in covenant, who were in the covenant of grace,
00:47:36.800
who trampled underfoot the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified,
00:47:42.280
as we've already talked about before in Hebrews.
00:47:44.660
You have these people that they were actually sanctified by the blood of the covenant,
00:47:55.200
But the blood of Christ always accomplishes all that it's intended to accomplish.
00:48:03.300
So a definite atonement is still absolutely maintained because there are there are the elect and those people are purchased by Christ in a way, in a in a distinct way that these men here in Second Peter, chapter two, verse one, were not.
00:48:22.480
Yeah, I'm trying to remember what Sproul said on it.
00:48:25.200
Which won't necessarily help my case, considering he's a Presbyterian.
00:48:28.760
But I think he said something like, you know, that it's, you know, the master who bought them.
00:48:33.660
Like part of the first question that that begs is bought them.
00:48:40.920
But the first question it begs is bought them with what?
00:48:46.600
Like I want to keep that second Peter reference separate from the blood of the covenant.
00:48:50.960
Because you got to deal with blood there in Hebrews 10, the blood of the covenant.
00:48:55.200
by which they were sanctifying, that they trampled underfoot. So in Hebrews 10, you do need to deal
00:49:00.600
with that. But you don't necessarily have to deal with blood in 2 Peter. But you do have,
00:49:06.620
I think what Sproul said was that you have servants in, it's his house. He bought the
00:49:11.180
whole house. And he bought everybody in the house. And he's got servants in this house that are
00:49:17.320
ministering. And in that sense, they belong to the master, but they're wicked servants.
0.96
00:49:21.660
but but they weren't bought by his blood in terms of atonement forgiveness of sin
00:49:26.520
but go ahead but they were bought just simply by not not by him as savior but by him as lord
00:49:35.340
right the jesus is lord of all savior of some like we said earlier and so in that sense like
00:49:40.500
they are bought they're owned by the master because he owns the cattle on a thousand hills
00:49:44.900
but he didn't die for cows you know what i mean like yeah i mean this is a this picking up on this
00:49:52.460
idea of a house the servants in the house um i think that's a very helpful um idea it's like
00:50:01.000
the ice cream shop yep right it is and you have these you have these servants who are in the house
00:50:05.940
like moses like moses just like moses was um a servant in the house of god now we have christ
00:50:12.740
So you have this son is better than a servant. Yeah. But that house, even when it comes to this is where I think the fractured evangelicalism can be understood because of an anemic covenant theology, because the covenant theology that we've established is ice cream shop.
00:50:31.420
Now call it the house of God or the visible church or the kingdom of God, your second circle.
00:50:37.260
You now have ministers, ordained ministers in that house.
00:50:46.800
Right now, you as a pastor of a particular church in Texas and me as a pastor of a particular church in Idaho, we have the greatest responsibility to our local flock, far out seeds, anything else.
00:50:58.700
But there's some sense that we are actually connected as ministers in the same house, right?
00:51:05.740
We're not just ministers in the invisible church together.
00:51:10.540
And it's not like this invisible, we have the invisible church where we're kind of ministers, and then we have a particular church that's where we're ministers.
00:51:17.100
No, there's actually some kind of visible church, some level of responsibility.
00:51:23.620
Again, far less than the particular, but there's an actual unity among even the ministers and, of course, then the people.
00:51:32.620
It's not just like I'm really with my people at my particular church, and then I'm with everyone in the invisible.
00:51:40.040
No, there's something about the visible, which is very covenantal, this idea of a house, of which even these, like you say, these men in 2 Peter 3 or 2 Peter 2 were as well.
00:51:56.260
I feel like everybody's probably more confused now.
00:51:59.200
I think we're saying some helpful things, you know, but I know that, I don't know.
00:52:05.780
Covenant theology, people should be, this is, first of all, not all the laity, you just even have time.
00:52:12.200
Everyone's got a responsibility to try to dig into this.
00:52:16.640
I would say, if people want to know more about what I think, they could read the case for the Christian family through Canon Press.
00:52:23.620
I provide a definition of the covenant of grace, support that biblically.
00:52:28.000
People can decide if they agree or they disagree, give an illustration about the covenant of grace, which I've given here.
00:52:32.180
But then I thread that out through what that means for covenant marriage, what that means for raising children, what that means for the kingdom of God, for education, for dominion, that kind of stuff.
00:52:41.960
And John Ball would be the biggest Pato guy that you would want to get.
00:52:46.140
But Nehemiah Cox and then modern guys like Sam Renehan are going to be the guys you want to go to for this, for the more credo perspective.
00:52:57.840
And it's for the theologians and the pastors, this is going to be a big, I just think we're dealing, our culture is requiring kind of a deeper analysis of these things.
00:53:10.360
One of the things, you know, in landing the plane, all that's super helpful and I agree.
00:53:15.020
One of the things that I just, people are going to have to have a way of understand, theologically understanding a person, a nation, a community, an entity, a business, a family, being in covenant with God, in a real covenant, beyond it merely being salvation.
00:53:37.680
That a person who is not saved can have some measure of being in a covenant with God in the New Testament.
00:53:45.020
I think people, the typical Baptist has, the only category they have for that is the nation
00:53:50.080
That's something that God was doing in the Old Testament.
00:53:51.820
That's an old covenant thing where people who are not saved, not regenerate, have real
00:53:56.900
But ever since Christ and his life, death, resurrection, and ascension, ever since that
00:54:01.240
happened, there's only one way to be in covenant with God, and that's to be born again.
00:54:09.260
And I would say, no, that's the chief way to be in covenant with God.
00:54:13.300
That's the only eternal way to be in covenant with God.
00:54:16.600
And that's the only way to be in right standing with God.
00:54:25.460
We have to have an understanding of national covenants with God.
00:54:29.960
We have to have a way of understanding family covenants with God.
00:54:34.680
So what I've been saying, you know, is online and with, you know, getting in all kinds of
00:54:38.220
trouble is just saying that there are more covenant.
00:54:41.140
i think the presbyterian wants to stretch the new covenant and the baptist wants to pretend as as
00:54:45.480
though there's only the new covenant is the only covenant there is and and i'm just over here being
00:54:51.300
either theologically genius or very likely theologically confused right in the middle in
00:54:56.220
the juicy middles right which usually means wrong right because i i recognize i'm not the smartest
00:55:01.820
person to ever come along so i doubt that i'm on to something new and novel and right i i recognize
00:55:07.140
that but still i just right now this is where i'm at is i think the presbyterian wants to stretch
00:55:11.780
the new covenant and make it encompass a whole bunch of stuff and and uh and the baptist wants
00:55:16.220
to say no it's just for salvation and i agree with that part and they want to say and it's the
00:55:20.200
only covenant there is so your kids are vipers and diapers you know um until until we have a
00:55:25.420
credible profession of faith and and america's never been a christian nation and they're not
0.60
00:55:29.140
in covenant with god and let's just principled pluralism and classical liberalism and drag queen
00:55:34.220
story hours a blessing of liberty and i'm like if that's baptist i'm out i'm out like and i
00:55:41.280
appreciate these guys i want to let me go on the record saying it's not but these guys are acting
00:55:46.860
like it is jared it's david french and russell moore but that's not like no see that see that's
00:55:52.420
fine david french and russell moore it's not fine but it's to be expected it's not david french and
00:55:56.860
russell moore it's it's guys who who are right there with us tooth and nail fighting against
00:56:02.020
wokeness. Um, and we agreed on the problem and I will not name them cause I will not name them,
00:56:07.620
but they fought with us on the problem. Some of them saw the problem before we did
00:56:12.200
and God bless them forever for it and their courage and their vigilance. But we disagree
00:56:17.800
on the solution. It's like Votie Bauckham's fault lines, right? I feel like there's a second,
0.84
00:56:22.680
there's a second earthquake happening. The first was the problem. Do we see CRT,
00:56:28.680
intersectionality wokeness you know um believe all women hashtag me too hashtag church too
00:56:33.760
right they you know get gets into john mccarthur like biblical counseling is abusive and oppressive
00:56:38.920
like there's all these serious things and we lost about half the evangelical church went woke and
00:56:44.620
and you know that there's your russell moore there's your david french there's you know
00:56:47.960
beth moore and and rick warren and and the whole lot of them but then there's this other half that
00:56:53.200
that was with us. But now we're not talking about just who sees the problem.
00:56:58.780
We're talking about who sees the solution. And so I'm not talking about Russell Moore and David
00:57:03.720
French. I'm talking about now at this point, in terms of the solution, we've got guys saying that
00:57:07.920
the solution is principled pluralism. The solution is carving out, you know, room for liberty,
00:57:16.460
you know, and I feel like the solution is Jesus. The solution is an explicitly Christian nation
0.90
00:57:24.960
that calls upon him by name. That the civil magistrate, that's still separation of church
0.66
00:57:29.320
and state, but no separation of Christ and state. The state declares publicly, I want to hear them
00:57:36.580
say it, right? It's like that little GIF online or GIF, whatever you say, where the guy, Shia
00:57:42.880
LaBeouf, a character in a movie, and he's like, say Christ is Lord. Say it. And it's like, I want
00:57:48.600
the civil magistrate in our nation and every nation to say Christ is Lord. These are his
00:57:53.000
commandments. And we are explicitly a Christian nation, and it's going to be enforced. It's going
00:57:58.620
to be legislated. And we're not legislating belief. That's not binding the conscience.
00:58:03.420
That's simply arguing from light of nature and special revelation scripture, what God has
00:58:09.280
clearly said and what he's written on the hearts of all people, even pagan people, per
00:58:16.060
This classical liberalism is, it doesn't exist.
00:58:19.860
I think it's literally, it only looked like it was working because we still had the residue,
00:58:28.100
Once that's eroded, once the foundations are destroyed, we'll find out classical liberalism
0.99
00:58:36.800
So anyways, all that being said, in order for us to talk about the solution, all that
00:58:41.480
back to you, Jared, is just, I don't think you can talk about the solution without covenant.
00:58:46.540
You can't talk about Christ being the solution for a nation without covenant language.
00:58:54.140
And it's got to be more than just the new covenant in my assessment, especially with
00:58:59.840
the Baptist understanding of the new covenant being exclusive to regenerate people.
00:59:03.580
i have to have a way of saying that nations can be in covenant with god and they must be and
00:59:11.300
according to scripture they will be because their christ inheritance progressively throughout human
00:59:15.440
history the nations will flock to him to mount zion nations and they'll and they'll be baptized
00:59:20.820
they will be christianized nations um and yet not all people will be i'm not a universalist not each
00:59:26.720
and every individual person in each of these nations will be saved in the eternal sense and
00:59:31.420
And I have to, but that's still, that's covenantal language.
00:59:35.180
And it's either the new covenant is way bigger than I thought, or there's just a lot of different covenants, but nobody's really named it.
00:59:45.700
You know, you might say, I think, so it was Mark Twain.
00:59:50.460
Mark Twain was once asked, do you believe in infant baptism?
00:59:56.120
and uh um i think you could say the same thing to the point you're making which is a slight which
01:00:02.900
is a different point you are talking about a different covenant but you if somebody says you
01:00:07.080
know you know do you believe in that that a nation can be a christian nation you could say
01:00:12.160
believe in it i've seen it done i mean this is this solemn league and covenant you've got like
01:00:17.060
nations in history that have already done this um nations in history there are nations right now
01:00:49.360
this conversation. I just think it's good to just keep talking
01:00:52.740
And Baptists and Presbyterians got to be able to get along.
01:00:55.140
And I've been telling my Baptist brothers, I said, either they're right and we just need
01:00:59.640
to join them, or if we're on to something and we are right in terms of our view of the
01:01:14.020
Either Presbyterians are right and there's just one house for covenant theology and we
0.99
01:01:18.680
just all need to, the Baptists need to leave their shanty and move into the neighbor's
0.99
01:01:22.380
mansion. And there's plenty of room and the neighbors will applaud us as we come in. Praise
0.99
01:01:25.680
God. Or if the Baptist Foundation really can support a mansion and you really can have a
01:01:32.120
robust political theology, because that's what we're getting into here at the end, within the
01:01:36.740
Baptist framework, within a particular Baptist covenantal framework, then we have to at least
01:01:42.260
recognize that even if we're right and the Presbyterians are wrong, the Presbyterians have
01:01:46.840
historically done a lot more work with even with being wrong than the Baptists have being right.
01:01:51.900
we've got very little to show as baptists when it comes to political the black road regiment
01:01:56.980
is a thing they did something we don't have the baptist equivalent so we've got like a couple
01:02:03.120
centuries of theological heavy lifting to do to catch up that either we'll find after doing it
01:02:08.560
that it actually can't be done and we'll move into the presbyterian house but one way or another we
01:02:13.160
got to start and the baptist is just saying that we shouldn't even start that it's not worth
01:02:17.120
starting, that it's not even worth trying to figure out, to do this covenantal theological
01:02:22.580
work to try to save our nation, to try to make it to where our grandkids have a chance
01:02:30.020
to be able to grow up the way we did, to just sell them down the river and just, I just
01:02:36.780
don't, like for me, a lot changed when I became a dad.
01:02:40.460
I have kids and I love them. And, and I don't want, I don't, I don't want them to, I don't
01:02:46.680
want things to keep heading the way they are. And, and they will keep heading the way they are
01:02:50.460
unless, unless we start doing something and to do something that involves a whole nation,
0.65
01:02:56.760
a bunch of them not being Christians, you have to have some kind of covenantal framework for that.
01:03:01.500
Can I be frank with you for just a second, right here at the end? Look, some of you guys,
01:03:05.900
you're financially supporting this ministry. And from the bottom of my heart, I say,
01:03:10.460
thank you. I cannot thank you enough. However, some of you, you just, you can't afford it.
01:03:17.500
In fact, some of you, you shouldn't afford it. Let's be honest. I mean, we're living in Joe
01:03:23.000
Biden's ridiculous economy. Our nation and our totalitarian political elites lost their minds
0.99
01:03:31.920
over the last three years due to COVID. We have written checks that we simply cannot cash.
01:03:38.720
It doesn't matter if people change the definition of a recession.
01:03:42.900
We are living in a recession right now regardless.
01:03:47.360
Some of you are struggling to afford a carton of eggs at the grocery store.
01:03:52.300
You cannot support financially this ministry at this time, nor should you.
01:04:00.960
I am asking you, please, if you're willing to do so, take one minute of your time.
01:04:06.380
Leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform, iTunes, Spotify, whatever that
01:04:13.320
might be. This is the way the system works. We want to be innocent as doves but shrewd as vipers.
01:04:20.560
We need to be strategic. You leave us a five-star review and our podcast shows up for more people.
01:04:27.420
And the Word of God and courageous theology applied in practical ways to every realm of life
01:04:34.560
gets out there. Help us get it out there. Thanks for tuning in.