THEOLOGY APPLIED - Biblical Patriarchy Vs. Andrew Tate ｜ with the Crew from Crosspolitic
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Summary
In this episode of Theology Applied, my friends from CrossPolitik join me to discuss R.R. Reno's book, Return of the Strong Gods. We discuss religion, tradition, nationalism, family, and how these things inevitably come back. The weak gods were never viable. They cannot last. So, the question is not whether, but which will we have Christian nationalism or Islamic nationalism? Will we have biblical patriarchy or Christian nationalism? And who will Andrew Tate be?
Transcript
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Principal pluralism is not viable. Globalism is not going to last. Even complementarianism
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was always intended to be a halfway house, and today we quickly see that middle ground
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falling away. In our episode of Theology Applied today, I'm privileged to welcome back to the show
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my friends from CrossPolitik. We discuss R. R. Reno's book called Return of the Strong Gods,
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religion, tradition, nationalism, family. These things inevitably are coming back.
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The weak gods were never viable. They cannot last. So, the question is not whether, but which.
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Will we have Christian nationalism or Islamic nationalism? Will we have biblical patriarchy
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or will we have Andrew Tate? One thing's for sure, the weak presentation of the Christian faith
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that evangelicals have peddled for decades cannot continue. The ground will not hold.
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Tune in now. Applying God's word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.
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In this episode, I'm super privileged to welcome back to the show,
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CrossPolitik. We've got Toby Sumter, Chalk Knox, and the water boy, Gabe Wrench. Guys,
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thanks for coming on the show. Great to be with you. Yes, sir.
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man good to be good to be with another guy from texas i mean i'm just you know we got a game it's
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just so good i actually really appreciate you saying that game because i thought for a second
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you're gonna be like it's just good to be with a fellow presbyterian that's what i thought it
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was good well hey we didn't say joe is there something you want to say joe no no is there
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something you want to come out the closet about is there something you want to sprinkle on this
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conversation you let us know if there's something that you know you need to
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if it ever happens you'll be the first you'll be the first enough i believe that i believe that
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okay we're gonna hold you to that but speaking of doing things together we're doing this but
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we're also i'm gonna get to see you guys at fight laugh feast at the ark i'm super excited did you
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guys have you sold out your tickets yet tell us about the conference oh yeah the conference so
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our conference is october 11th through the 14th this year at the ark encounter which is just like
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for uh i'm pulling my kids out of school uh to take them to the conference because it's a
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historical like scientific gospel experience if you if you think about the ark and the history of
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the ark you think about the science behind you know the worldwide flood and you think about
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uh you have salvation and damnation embodied in that whole uh event and story it's just a
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and ken ham and the crew over there they do a fantastic and fantastic presentation of of the
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ark and uh so they actually have an event center i think it's only two years old yeah it's brand
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new i was talking to somebody who was there actually a couple years ago and they were like
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what there's an event center yeah and i said oh yeah it must be brand new but it's not on the ark
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right the event center is is separate i'm imagine it's next to it it's right it's like 200 yards
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away yeah although not as cool you'd have to go in two by two if it's in the ark well there wasn't
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there canham is very precise you're right so you can't he would not put the event center in the
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ark because that's not historically that makes sense but not that precise toby because i've been
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reliably informed that there is not a display next to the ark of giant nephilim drowning in
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the flood so he's not that accurate you know what i mean he's that's awesome they're under
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they're underground okay so just just just to wrap it up it's uh october 11th through the 14th at the
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ark encounter um tickets are still available joel is actually doing a live show with us on christian
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nationalism we got steven wolf coming pastor doug wilson and joel webbin on our live show to discuss
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christian nationalism right and hash out everything right there we'll finish the conversation and
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everyone will know what to think that we will make we will we will renew covenant with god
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between america and and the triune god yes that's awesome amen that's awesome will there be any
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baptist represented so you go to fight that feast.com to sign up there's my awesome are you
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guys gabe how close are you to being what what is the limit here is it like 1100 1500 what's the
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limit yeah we uh they got space for about 2000 and we're at about a thousand right now so it's a
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it's a harder conference to get to we're 45 minutes from any airport it's out in the middle
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of rural kentucky and so we would love to you know hopefully end up with about 1500 at the
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conference 1500 is awesome and you're right it's more expensive and not because of you guys but
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it's like you've got to you've got to pay for the ark and you got to pay for the conference
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and you got to get a car and drive 45 minutes so my family's coming and you know you know the
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whole family and so i i know like and you guys are helping helping out because i'm speaking but
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i know like yeah man it's uh you could you could buy a home or you could go to uh the fight life
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feast conference and it's not your phone it's almost that bad almost but uh so we're very
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grateful it's gonna be a lot of buy a home yeah you're right you're right so one thing that i've
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been thinking about with the r arena book is um i you know i'm thinking about like gandalf you shall
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not pass standing in the middle it seems like one of the things he's saying is that this it's
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inevitable this return to the strong gods because there's uh young men especially society i think a
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lot of society but especially the young men know that we were duped we were lied to we were stolen
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from and they're angry and understandably so um they're getting blackpilled right so it's still
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trying to figure out what to do with that anger but um but but they're angry and and so it seems
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as though inevitably there's going to be a return to the strong gods and and real quick if we haven't
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explained that clear enough the the weak gods is like inclusivism it's it's globalism it's um
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principled pluralism i would argue classical liberalism would be in it like these are the
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weak gods the strong gods are are uh transcendent truths things that would be true if you had never
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been born like like what doug would say so it's religion family faith um it's patriarchy rather
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than egalitarianism a hierarchy you know so you got egalitarian feminism and then you've got
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a hierarchical uh patriarchy you know so it's these and then it would be nationalism right and
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maybe that's not the best word but it's it's nationalism versus over here globalism and so my
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my point is if if this return to the strong gods lowercase g plural gods is inevitable and and we
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want uh in that return for there to be a return not just to the strong gods but to the strongest
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God of gods, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ, then the way I see it is kind of back to
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the rush doing anything. It's not whether but which. I think we're going to shift. I think
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the world is going to shift from globalism to nationalism. So is it going to be Islamic or is
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it going to be Christian nationalism? I think we're going to shift from feminism and egalitarianism
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to patriarchy. So is it going to be Andrew Tate or is it going to be Doug Wilson? And so my point
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is a lot of the, and I'm talking about brothers now, not you guys, but brothers in Christ,
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good brothers. A lot of the dissidence that's happening is there are still some guys who think
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the middle will hold. They think the middle will hold. They think complementarianism,
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it'll suffice. They think that we don't need nationalism. They think classical liberalism,
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it's still good. It'll hold. And so what I'm trying to say is Gandalf is standing on the
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bridge. And I think he just needs to get off the bridge. So my point is, I think we're going to go
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back to nationalism. I think it'll be Christian. You're going to have calls to prayer. Will it be
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church bells or will it be Islamic calls to prayer? And you're going to have patriarchy. Is it going
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to be Joe Rogan and Andrew Tate, or is it going to be biblical patriarchy? But standing in the gap
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and straddling the line with both feet and saying, the middle ground is great. I think the world is
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yeah i agree with you i just think also the way that the real world works is that there's always
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a whole bunch of people that don't want to don't want to get off the bridge um to continue your
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analogy and so what the faith will have to do is go um they have to they have to be obedient and
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they have to go build the cities go build um the shelters and you're absolutely right there's going
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to we're going to call to them and say hey come on it's time to come and they'll say no i think
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we can hold it a little bit longer we can hold it a little bit longer and when their places are
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overrun we need to be ready to welcome them when they come and trump's going to be wanting to build
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the wall yeah which i'm i'm down for that keep keep the refugees from coming into the church
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you just changed everything i'm down for that wall uh but that's that's another discussion
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um i part of i've been i was really thankful for reno's book because i thought he did
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the best job i've heard dealing with multiculturalism right and i think people
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have been really sloppy working through that concept the thing the question that i have and
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And maybe when he comes on the show, we talk to him about it.
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But I don't know if it's the return as much as it is anything, right?
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But this right here, this is a storm and not this.
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Because if it was a return, I would see a lot more repentance.
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and i'm not seeing that necessarily well see i think i'm seeing a lot of i know that's a great
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point but i think what we're seeing is a lot of regret that's what i mean worldly regret doesn't
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lead to repentance uh we're seeing a lot of regret but i think the regret is enough to uh to turn us
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back to the strong gods repentance oh alone is enough to return us back to the strong god
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does that make sense i like that i can give you i can give you one of those for that i agree but
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But that's what scares me is that I don't hear enough of the repentance being proclaimed
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because this is why we're talking about people are getting red-pilled and then black-pilled
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Actually, I think there are people getting Christ-pilled.
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Yeah, I think we can see this is really a tough conversation to have in our current time
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and state because you guys got guys like Oliver Anthony, and you're like,
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Joe Rogan is asking him his testimony, like, no, no, explain to me what happened.
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But I don't think it's the win that we think it is.
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And so there's another win that needs to happen after that as a discipleship that we're not really working that one well, right?
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And so we look at that one and think like, ah, we're one.
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If everything collapses tomorrow, like Joel says it might,
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I think we're going to end up with a bunch of Oliver Anthony's in power.
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Which is going to be like kind of interesting and exciting and encouraging.
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We're not going to know like a whole bunch of people who don't know God's word.
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And are trying to figure it out on the fly, which again,
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And maybe to your point, Knox, it's maybe the Book of Judges, where it's pretty topsy-turvy.
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We know how to get – look, I'm going to tell you, though, the only ditches you want to be in at that point are your theonomous because they've been prepared.
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I've been talking about toilet paper before COVID.
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I've always told – my dad is an ex-special forces guy.
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i've always told everybody if something goes down i know where i'm going okay me and my dad ain't on
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the best of turns but i know i'm at his door i'm gonna tell you that right now i know he got the
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anyway i ain't gonna tell on him uh but i think we're gonna have to have those enclaves like
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pastor toby was talking about earlier they're still on the bridge and we're gonna have to
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create those enclaves and say listen brother we built the shelter when you get ready and before
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you go down and die come on back we got you and we saw that happen in covid that's right
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look what happened look at the places where people moved to yeah they found education and
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they found schools you know how long we've been telling people to pull their kids out of government
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schools yeah and it took a flu and we couldn't convince them it took a flu but years but god
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look what god did yeah so look what god did so this is why i'm saying like i'm i'm not mad at
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the mess because i know god works with that but look at what it's done people are mad at the
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system while they still are in the system yeah right hey you know and it's like if you think
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it's broken and like don't get out don't you know that yeah exactly and you have the ability to do
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it right this is what we were talking about a little bit earlier which is like you can still
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make stuff yeah you can still do stuff right you don't have to be attached to it that way and it
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still has an impact on the thing up here that you want to get at right so i i appreciate what he's
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saying and i think where he's going with this i'm just wondering that in between time as they're
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trying to before they get to the true god what's in between that we're going to have to work through
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work out yeah this might be this might take us in a slightly different direction but one of the
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questions i want to ask him and i'm curious joel if you have any thoughts on this is i i really do
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like i see what he's talking about i see the narrative yeah and it makes sense to me i think
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something like that did happen the one the one thing that didn't sit right or the thing that's
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just like i'm just not quite sure how to fit into the equation is that um basically um we um we
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agreed to right and left conservative and liberal agreed to the weak gods this open society and we
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did it with the blood of 65 million babies that is not a weak god strong gods demand blood
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and so i part that's the part of the narrative that doesn't work i don't understand that part
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because that's a lot of heart that's 65 million babies that's that's makes the aztecs look like
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well that's not even worldwide what that count is no led led by america and i'm just like so
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it's it's like i'm i don't know like that's the one thing that i don't understand and i'm not sure
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it's like second corinthians says that um satan comes as an angel of light and i love how c.s
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lewis also pictures um satan as sort of like the ultimate um anal retentive bureaucrat yeah yeah
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right and so there's something about that where it's like you know the devil is this tidy minded
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perfectionistic accountant with his pants pulled up to his armpits and and like that's what the
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devil is right and and it seems to me that there was a certain sense in which that's who's been
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running our country for the last 60 or 70 years and who said basically we're gonna we're gonna
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keep it all neat and tidy no one's and so it's both it's in a sense it's like it really is that
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open society it is like no sharp edges no strong feelings but it's like but maybe that's the most
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devilish demonic um society of them all yes because i think so because um we you know that
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at least the the strong god so to speak are out in the open like you know the racist god you know
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the God who demands, you know, blood sacrifices on the altar in the middle of town is like,
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well, there you go. Well, the strong gods have a standard, you know, so even if it's a false
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strong God, there's still a standard that's external that people, people can read the sign.
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They can read the rules. They can know if you're in, if you're out, you know, what you, what you
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have to do. But, but the weak gods, Toby, you made a great point, but I think, I don't think
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that it's 65 million um babies murdered in their mother's womb over the past 50 years that that's
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well that's a strong god no i i think the death toll is is just higher with weak gods i really
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do i i think that um as bad as hitler was i think that um you you can look to uh some of these weak
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gods other other dictators um hitler you know would directly whether you know concentration
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campers directly kill this many, right? Hitler killed his thousands, but Stalin his tens of
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thousands. Like my point is the weak gods, they don't necessarily put people in a gas chamber.
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What they do is they'll starve 10 million people or a hundred million, you know, like the weak
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gods are just, they're weak, weak men kill people. Joe Biden is responsible for more deaths in his
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presidential term than, than when you think of what, just what's even going on between Russia
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Ukrainian youth. Weakness, when men are weak, when leaders are weak, when gods are weak,
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people die. So the weak gods don't do the killing. The weak gods just remove all the
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barriers to protect. I think that's what happens. That's helpful. Wasn't that some of the problem
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with the strong gods too, that people love things too much? And with abortion, they love something
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a lot to give up their kids. So you have this connection between their loves being strong is
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what's defining the strong gods and reno does hint at this in various places when talking about
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the weak gods that it's it's inherently unstable like like because right because idolatry is yeah
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because people really are made in the image of god and we are inherently we desire to love and
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to serve and so i think maybe that would be the answer is that yeah i mean we kind of have this
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uneasy truce but it's not holding because because you don't really ever like you can't um you can't
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neuter the image of god ultimately and so there's always going to be this deep love and and though
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you the weak the weakness is sort of the um the whatever the the uneasy truce um you're right
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they'd loved something very very deeply to kill their own babies but they didn't love faith religion
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family father that nation they loved self um and they and they loved um they loved it was it was
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you know i've said multiple times a nation can either worship women or save babies but it can't
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do both uh they love so even that was yes we could say it's an idolatry of personal convenience and
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individuality but but really in many ways it was um it was egalitarianism everybody's equal it was
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feminism it was it was the love the thing that they were loving was the inclusivism weak god
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that just that weak god puts up a bigger death toll than the strong gods and i think you know
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my back to what you were saying to because i think you're right um the strong gods we haven't
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thought in these terms um but but the strong gods they are viable not eternally not not
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indefinitely viable but uh islam has has at least a reproductive plan right where secularism doesn't
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and so i think that like the reason i think that's good joel and so so my point is like obviously
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like allah is not god he's a false god um but but when you think of islam and even various forms of
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paganism, you know, whether it's Norse mythology, these things, they still have patriarchy. They
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have love for the fatherland. They have family is good. Wives and children are good. Wives should
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submit to their husband. And sure, some of them are too far. Like wives are just slaves, you know,
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or women have no rights at all. But my point is those basic premises of we love our nation. We
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love our family. Children are a good thing. If a guy has 10 kids, he's bragging about it instead
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of thinking, oh, I've been cursed. You find those basic things in Islam, you find it in Buddhism,
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you find it in Norse mythology. The only thing you don't find it in is secularism. It's the crazy,
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weak gods. And so I think that secularism is, when you look at human history, it's the misnomer.
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It doesn't stand out as patterns in multiple cultures over multiple centuries. It's this
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misnomer, and it only was allowed to exist because not just the strong gods, but the strongest God of
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all, Jesus Christ, was so prevalent in the West for so long and built up such a juggernaut, so
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many resources, so much blessings, so much that we thought that we could be independent, that we
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didn't need any gods anymore, that man could actually be his own God, that man could be the
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measure of all things. And so that's a unique, I think that's a really unique thing. And what you
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just said, Chuck, that would make sense too. If it's happened anywhere else, it would be Israel
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because Israel would be the only other society under the old covenant that had enough blessing
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from God and enough lineage of obedience to actually think that they could be independent.
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Nobody else would think that. Babylon, Assyria, everybody else would be like that.
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Yeah. That's good. That's actually really helpful, Joel, because I think you're right.
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um abortion is the sacrifice that we paid um for the weakness of impotence
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right that's that's the that was the blood offering that we paid so that our sex would
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be meaningless rather than potent and powerful in building families and generations and nations
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and um and then the other piece is i think you're right i'm connecting that to the other sort of the
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traditional religions of the strong gods i think this is why c.s lewis talked about how i mean i
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mean his own testimony is one of being an aberrant initially with norse religion right and and greek
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mythology and and he describes um that is sort of um you know a kind of um proto-gospel of beginning
00:23:14.780
to see like the story the mythologies of the gospel they were they were false and twisted
00:23:20.720
in various ways but um but saw god even in those false mythologies as preparing ancient pagan
00:23:27.400
peoples for the true myth right of christ the son of god who died and rose again for the salvation
00:23:33.320
of the world the true strong god the true son of god yeah um and i one last thing would be i don't
00:23:39.940
know if you've ever read it before um this guy's a really wonky in certain ways but uh eastern
00:23:45.340
orthodox guy named david bentley hart has a great essay called christ and nothing and he basically
00:23:51.900
argues that very point again pretty wonky in some areas but on this particular essay it's been a
00:23:56.860
while since i read it but he argues that it was the um basically the success of the gospel that
00:24:01.900
has created this sort of this emptiness and then we went in for nihilism because there was nothing
00:24:07.200
left right what because christ conquered all the other gods and i think it fits with what you're
00:24:12.120
saying it's like secularism only thrives in a place where christ has conquered all the false
00:24:16.440
that's why you get all the warnings it's a parasite that's why you get all the warnings
00:24:19.640
before you go into the promised land yeah that's why you get so many warnings yeah don't be like
00:24:24.060
them right that's all the warnings are telling you that although you're right but but i think
00:24:28.540
the point is also like the notion of like but even when you've driven like driven out all the gods
00:24:34.200
that the temptation to create a really even more unnatural religion of neutrality and secularism
00:24:43.820
where there's no God. It's the seven demons. I think it's before the seven demons. It's the
00:24:50.680
house swept clean and empty. That's right. And put in order. And what sweeps the house clean.
00:24:55.720
That's the nothing. Exactly. What sweeps the house clean. And that's, I mean, that's what
00:24:59.080
Jesus did in Israel. I mean, he's literally just casting out demons left and right, you know,
00:25:02.580
because Israel is just thoroughly demon possessed and, and he's casting out all these demons. Um,
0.62
00:25:08.220
but, but they, you know, he came to his own and they received him not. And, and, you know,
00:25:12.240
they said, let his blood be on us and our children forever and, and put the son of God to death.
00:25:16.900
And 40 years later, boom, they're crushed. And, and I think that's what the West is like the West
00:25:21.800
Christendom Christ, the true strong God. He's the only one who has the strength to cast out all the
00:25:26.360
other strong gods to cast out the demons. Uh, but then you have Christendom that put the West in
00:25:31.100
order, but now it's empty. So this is my last thought. My concern is that it won't just be
00:25:40.280
back to Norse mythology or it won't just be back to our white pagan roots. It'll be seven worse
0.93
00:25:48.280
demons that secularism has actually set the stage for, and not just secularism, but a prior
00:25:55.120
Christodom, what can seven demons do with a house that's so put in order and so clean and so empty
00:26:02.140
that it's got AI technology and nuclear technology? What can they do with that? It's one thing when
00:26:09.180
it's tomahawks, but it's another thing when it's silicon. And so that's my fears. And I think the
00:26:17.960
only bulwark to stop that is, is Jesus Christ to return to Christianity. And my fear is all these
0.97
00:26:24.660
young men, they're tired of weakness. And you know what they're convinced of? I'm talking to a lot of
00:26:29.780
these guys offline. They're convinced that Christianity is one of the weak gods. And so
00:26:34.320
I think one of the things that church has to do in not just regret, but repentance, what you're
00:26:38.100
saying, Chuck, is we need to repent of portraying a weak Christ. We need to actually repent. We
00:26:44.660
we syncretized classical liberalism in the christian faith that's right we syncretized
00:26:50.300
some of these weak gods with and we emphasize his death but we forgot about his resurrection
00:26:56.040
right we we emphasized uh that he's you know we'll write books about him being um meek and mild
00:27:01.880
but none about him being triumphant you know and and so that i think that's what we have to get
00:27:07.320
back to and and it's we can't overcorrect either we got us yeah he died he died but also also he
00:27:14.100
rose from the dead you know and i think we've got to we've got to convince young men in the west
00:27:20.480
that they don't need to go to islam that christianity is a strong god but what we're up
00:27:24.520
against is our own christian brothers insisting from larger platforms than ours uh that christianity
00:27:30.220
is uh don't you worry it's as uh weak and and non-threatening as you can possibly get so i
00:27:36.300
think we have to deal with that so that they can keep their donations from women there's no there's
00:27:40.000
no doubt that we that's no no you're right there's no doubt that we need to deal with that
00:27:44.000
joel and i'm totally with dealing with that my got my eyes on them as well but we also don't
0.62
00:27:48.280
want to let the seculars define for us what strength is that's true yeah yeah right they
00:27:52.320
don't get to define that either that's right you're right you're right hey appreciate you
00:27:56.600
joel we gotta run but thank you guys so much for coming on the show my guy keep up the good work
00:28:01.780
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