00:04:35.100What made you think, hey, we need a book about Christian nationalism?
00:04:40.560Yeah, I mean, it was a term of derision.
00:04:43.040I mean, it actually was used in the 19th century, a little bit in the civil rights era.
00:04:51.120It's been used by kind of black Christians, mainly heretical ones, but it was used also in the UK.
00:04:58.100It was used by some Chinese Christians.
00:05:03.100But recently, yeah, it was a term of derision.
00:05:05.540But I think our conservative impulse is to be accused of something and then instantly say, I'm not that.
00:05:11.880You know, so we go through a kind of series of these like disclaimers and disavowals and all that.0.93
00:05:18.520But once we started being accused of Christian nationalism, the more I thought about it was, well, this is precisely actually what I am.
00:05:26.380I am a Christian, love my nation, and I'm nationalist.
00:05:32.360So what does it mean to bring all those together?
00:05:34.680And so that's that was my as you know, I initially started thinking about this more and more and I realized, you know what, actually what Christians need today, particularly in the West, is we need a sort of Christian nationalist approach because nationalism tends to emphasize national will.
00:05:54.900that's kind of historically uh just in 19th century and another thing it just had this
00:06:00.140emphasis on the kind of national will um kind of a will to live and it seems to me that the
00:06:05.840the west is in a position where it's kind of has a will to die right uh westerners have this sort
00:06:11.900of self-hating self-loathing malaise that it leads them to want to kind of implode and commit self
00:06:17.940suicide you know national suicide uh so this i think the nationalism i is a i think a response
00:06:26.480a principled response to both the our heritage as protestants but also it's good for the moment
00:06:33.040and that moment is to kind of reinvigorate revitalize uh our our will to live um and and
00:06:40.220not just will to live in a you know to have just have have food and and shelter but a will to
00:06:46.720actually order our lives and our society towards the highest things. So eternal good. And that's
00:06:53.720what inspired me. And that's why I think the book, even though there's a lot in there that's old,
00:06:58.960I think it's kind of unique in the approach. Yeah, great. I like the way that Wilson put it
00:07:05.920on one of his blogs, but just basically saying we kind of have six choices, three categories and
00:07:12.760in two subcategories underneath each of the main three headers that, you know, we can be tribalist,
00:07:17.800we can be nationalist, we can be globalist. And we don't want to be globalist because for one,
00:07:22.660just biblically, the Bible speaks of distinct nations. The nations are Christ's inheritance.
00:07:27.120The Bible emphasizes sovereign nations and distinctions between them. And then tribalism
00:07:32.580may sound good. Localism is a good thing. We should care about our county, you know, and the0.88
00:07:37.760place that God has put us most immediately in working out from that. But that doesn't really
00:07:42.420work as a form of government. Tribes are just, you know, you exist and maybe it's peaceful for
00:07:47.580six months and then you get taken over by another tribe. And so it just doesn't seem to work. And so
00:07:51.900that leaves us with this nationalism piece. And then the question is really, do we want to be a
00:07:55.740pagan? Do we want pagan nationalism, you know, secular humanistic nationalism or Christian? So
00:08:00.580it's the six categories mean, you know, secular tribalism versus, you know, Christian tribalism,
00:08:06.300secular globalism, Christian globalism, and then secular nationalism versus Christian nationalism.
00:08:13.240It seems like as a nation, we've been heading towards certainly secularism for quite a while
00:08:18.480now, but then more recently, kind of secular globalism. And that doesn't seem like it's
00:08:24.480panning out well. And so it seems like a return to a focus on nations, individual sovereign,
00:08:31.000distinct nations and um patriotism and those kinds of things and then and then looking to god um as
00:08:37.520the you know the question is by what standard um how do nations function and what is is it just the
00:08:43.260will of the people is demas god or is or is there a theos a god above the state and um and so yeah
00:08:50.100christian nationalism is you know it's not the term that necessarily we would have chosen for
00:08:54.400ourselves. It is a pejorative. But Puritan was a pejorative of sorts. And there's been many times
00:09:02.140when faithful Christians over the centuries throughout church history have been labeled
00:09:05.180something by the opposition, but it worked. And they worked with the term because it actually
00:09:11.580had biblical merit. And so I think that's what you and many other guys are doing. And so
00:09:15.840any thoughts on that before I move on into some more questions?
00:09:20.240well i you know i i would just say that uh i i'm not i'm not just taking the term because
00:09:28.180as a way to troll you know the uh i'm not saying implied this but i actually think it's a good
00:09:34.680good term for a moment and so in a way i'm like grateful for the people who came up with it
00:09:39.400thinking that it was going to be as a pejorative it's going to be down these christians are called
00:09:43.040christian nationalists i mean in a way i'm thankful because i think it's just a it is the
00:09:48.440right term for the moment and i mean i think it's the right term for for all moments but i think in
00:09:54.180particular this one the the things that are emphasized in nationalism uh particularly that
00:10:00.040that sense of drive that will that's saying we are going to seek and after our good we're going to
00:10:05.200act we're going to have resolve that that is what is kind of inherent to this the emphasis of the
00:10:10.760term nationalism and to say it's christian national to say that we're not only going to
00:10:14.800be concerned about, you know, our mash and our, you know, our temporal life, but also for our
00:10:21.600eternal life as well. And so we're going to order ourselves to that. So I think it's just a good
00:10:27.660term. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. All right. So one of the quotes that you highlighted, I believe, this was
00:10:34.640in a chapter, I believe, chapter six, it says, what laws can and cannot do, civil law. The very
00:10:43.600first citation that you have is the laws and liberties of Massachusetts, 1647. I just want
00:10:50.500to read that and then let you comment on it. I just thought it was profound and really helpful.
00:10:54.100It says, for when the authority is of God and that in a way of the ordinance, Romans 13, 1,
00:11:01.500and when the administration of it is according to deductions and rules gathered from the word of God
00:11:09.220and the clear light of nature in civil nations, surely there is no human law that tendeth to the
00:11:16.640common good according to those principles, but what is immediately a law of God, and that in
00:11:23.520way of an ordinance, which all are to submit unto, and that for conscience sake, Romans 13.5.
00:11:33.180What are your thoughts on that? It seems like that kind of set the tone for this chapter,
00:11:37.480and uh and you worked from that quote well i mean it's essentially a summary of standard uh reformed
00:11:44.760uh i mean i mean it's also tomista i mean it's just it's just a christian it's a classical
00:11:50.340christian conception of the law which just kind of shows you that even the puritans had the same
00:11:56.280kind of conception of law as just um as christians probably did um but yeah that basically summarizes
00:12:02.360that chapter uh you know usually you will kind of kind of want a pithy quote in the front right i
00:12:06.900thought well you know what i'll just throw in one of these hard to read uh 17th century quotes
00:12:11.360that's a long one but but yeah i mean that that is it's saying that that civil law uh civil law
00:12:18.540is something that binds our conscience to action because uh because it's rooted in the the law of
00:12:25.080god or the natural law the moral law of god and so this means that a magistrate who says do this
00:12:32.160or don't do that he he can only say that uh he can only actually command you that and you're only
00:12:37.840you're compelled to obey only if that command is uh is derived from god's law right and in this
00:12:47.040sense in this sense a just law is as an ordinance of god it's like god it's essentially god telling
00:12:52.340you to do something right though it's mediated through the determination of a civil magistrate
00:12:57.640and you would say with that that like all human authority is delegated authority it's you know
00:13:03.380all like there's no such thing as inherent human authority it's all vested from from gone whether
00:13:08.740it be familiar yeah so we so none of us have a like a natural uh power to command our fellow
00:13:16.320man to do something so uh yeah we we can't and we can come i guess i suppose we command him not to
00:13:23.600you know, commit some moral offense against us. But we can't say, hey, you got to do this,
00:13:27.740you got to drive on the side of the road, you got to, you know, we don't have that power
00:13:30.700inherently, that has to be something God, in a sense, grants someone to then serve as a sort
00:13:41.180of mediator of civil law. So that this mediator, which, you know, has been called a magistrate,
00:13:46.740or prince, or whatever, you can call them just a civil government or legislative authority,
00:33:23.320And that would be to realize that your masculinity,
00:33:28.440the things of power that drive to exercise dominion
00:33:34.300is actually true and good and not destroyed.
00:33:36.340It's natural and it's not destroyed by nature.
00:33:38.860So that's one thing, not just on the individual level.
00:33:41.140But on the broader level, it's about realizing that you're a people and you have a place.
00:33:49.720And if you're Christian, you want that to be a Christian place.
00:33:54.340And in order for that to happen, it's not a matter of reading the times, you know, reading the signs and talking about eschatology all the time and saying like that post-mill.
00:35:48.200I don't think that that's, you know, there's any problem with that.0.81
00:35:50.640But I do think that it's extraordinary that we really do live in a society where even just the implicit laws, right, the cultural laws that aren't even civil laws, but just cultural guidelines and directives are, they're all feminine.
00:36:08.500So anytime a man tries to take initiative and tries to actually carry out what God has called him to, taking dominion in his various arenas of life and the responsibilities that God has given to him as a husband, as a father, in his vocation, in his local church, in his local town.
00:36:27.560Maybe he runs for city council and these kinds of things.
00:36:31.780A lot of times men just get blasted for being misogynist or being, this is toxic masculinity.
00:36:40.600And then, you know, we have any book within Christianity, you know, that sells really well and that, you know, people are like, oh, this was so good.
00:36:50.580It always focuses on, you know, Jesus, meek and mild, you know, gentle and lowly.0.98
00:36:57.560You know, Jesus, you know, it's the most feminine qualities that you could imagine.0.75
00:37:04.400And those, I'm not saying those are objectively feminine qualities.
00:37:07.240Jesus is meek and mild, and Jesus was and is a man.
00:37:12.460But that's not the only, that's not the whole of Jesus and his attributes and who he is.
00:37:18.700And so anyways, can you talk a little bit, why did you include that in the epilogue?
00:37:23.300And what are you trying to get across to the reader?
00:37:25.480yeah so i mean i when i wrote this book it's not just like an academic exercise it's not just
00:37:32.040trying to be precise for my fellow academics or you know whatever high-brow thinkers
00:37:37.820i actually want it to happen uh and i i mean people might be surprised when they read the
00:37:45.960epilogue what's in there but what's in there is just again it's mainly written for men and it's
00:37:52.340saying it like what what's going to what's going to prevent us from being christian nationalists
00:37:59.180well what's to bring i mean to bring it in a christian nation that follows kind of principles
00:38:03.680of christian nationalism and i think one of it is going to be i don't think it could happen when
00:38:08.800women are generally kind of in charge and and rule things that's and that's because women tend not to
00:38:14.320they tend to have they have they're empathetic uh they tend to be more inclusive and men tend0.95
00:38:21.600to be more exclusive uh and they they they tend to yeah so i there's there's these there's these
00:38:30.360different traits that you see between uh the sexes and in order to have a christian nation
00:38:37.040where some some uh where blasphemy is punished by someone who seems well-meaning and nice and
00:38:43.800smiles big you're gonna have to have a guy who says no you're going to jail i mean or whatever
00:38:48.460it is you're fine them i mean because yeah i'm all for blasphemy laws by the way um if if you're
00:38:53.200going to suppress atheism i mean there might be some very nice guy has a big smile loves atheism
00:38:58.320like no atheism is crushed uh it's not going to be tolerated um you you have to have this kind of
00:39:05.400firm hand where it says you just say no we're not going to do this and uh and what i mean there's0.91
00:39:12.500study after study coming out today about women-dominated fields in academia where that1.00
00:39:19.340the sort of traits you see coming out of those departments are the exact opposite of that of0.55
00:39:26.120sort of assertive saying kind of saying no to these things that are going to be damaging
00:39:33.780and I so I think that there's what I call kind of a gynocracy which is a term that I didn't make up
00:39:42.180it's been around uh but one of the one of the things that you see is this because of empathy
00:39:50.280uh within within gynocracies uh you have this very strong egalitarian appeal uh egalitarian
00:40:01.360like a following a very egalitarian principle and what happens then within these groups is
00:40:06.300everything becomes very institutionalized very proceduralized
00:40:11.440uh a lot of times the the men who are very assertive and agonistic who want to actually
00:40:17.440compete with one another um kind of are suppressed and everything has to be extremely cooperative
00:40:23.640and equality driven and in the end you don't actually have the naturally superior people
00:40:30.400arise to the top and the the benefit of like a masculine leadership uh to my mind is that
00:40:37.120men can compete aggressively with one another and they can debate and they can fight each other
00:40:43.680and they in a way can self-sort into hierarchies through this activity so like on the playground
00:40:50.780i mean growing up you can see in the playground different people different guys tend to kind of
00:40:55.900lead the pack right and sometimes there was conflict but it eventually everyone kind of
00:41:00.660sorted out where they were in this hierarchy and everyone figured out what they did well and what
00:41:05.100they what they you know how they relate to everyone else and everyone in in general was was kind of
00:41:10.180fine with that uh with some some problems at times but uh what like with gynecratic uh system
00:41:17.300that sort of thing cannot happen so you get you get a lot of mediocrity um and it suppresses a
00:41:23.800lot of those kind of masculine virtues that can really inspire greatness so that's one thing but
00:41:30.500i think just just just broadly speaking you're if you have a very kind of feminine led institutions
00:41:37.020you can't have christian nationalism because you're going to have a sort of empathy run amok
00:41:42.600you're going to have untethered empathy and i think i mean i'm bashing women here a lot but
00:41:48.320i'm just saying that women are essential to dominion they're essential to the work we have
00:41:54.960in this world uh but the the excesses of empathy can actually destroy societies yeah i can create1.00
00:42:03.660these it can create these contradictions so who supports homosexuality the most tends to be women0.88
00:42:10.220who supports transgender kids uh you know transitioning all that and be that insanity0.81
00:42:15.200tends to be women who supports uh uh the the um often like criminals on on the streets and want0.82
00:42:23.360lower lower crime sentences uh uh more more prosecutor prosecutorial discretion tends to be
00:42:30.120women and and who is this well i mean think one of the most reliable voting blocks for democrats1.00
00:42:35.280is actually college educated white women right uh and so you see these kind of like these i call0.99
00:42:42.140them gynocratic contradictions where like an untethered empathy when it becomes realized in
00:42:48.660policy can actually literally destroy not uh not only destroy societies but it comes back and harms0.99
00:42:54.740women as well i mean just see that the the in sports women can train their entire teenage their
00:43:01.500their young lives for to compete in some sport and then they're beat by this mediocre guy who
00:43:07.100claims to be a girl so anyway i mean that that's what i was trying to get out but the main point
00:43:11.600i've talked a lot about this i'm gonna get in trouble for it all um the the main point is that
00:43:16.920we're not going to see a christian nationalism happen because because women are are not able to
00:43:25.940as easily kind of stomach the exclusivist posture you need towards people in society
00:43:33.960yeah uh the old testament um i think it may be isaiah it might have been ezekiel but
00:43:40.680talks about the civil majesty, like the state, the government, and speaks of it in animalistic
00:43:48.880terms as bears or like with claws, sharp claws. And, you know, and that goes right along with,
00:43:58.160you know, Romans 13, like he bears the sword. And, you know, and these are masculine things.
00:44:04.580He bears the sword, you know, or a bear or things like that. And I, you know, I think of like
00:44:10.360kentonji brown jackson um you know supreme court um and you know some of the things that as she
00:44:17.360was going through you know getting grilled and those kinds of things you guys are bringing up
00:44:20.660you're soft on on crime and particularly you know um cases of you know where the um pedophilia
00:44:28.240you know and um and i think you know the the instinct is um well man you know like even with
00:44:35.240putin when when things like that were just starting out with russian uh invasion of of ukraine you
00:44:41.400know like one woman i forget her name but wrote um a poem like if um if only i were your mom
00:44:47.440you know and i think like women think in those terms so it's like here's a pedophile you know
00:44:52.160who's being tried in court and um and the woman if she happens to be the judge is thinking um
00:44:57.340gosh i i you know um how come this poor guy you know he's he's messed up he just needs help
00:45:03.160uh whereas men i think um uh this guy should be hung publicly um that he's a he's a what he's a
00:45:12.040pedophile like no we're not thinking we're not thinking in sympathetic you know terms and so
00:45:17.360there's just there's different roles for men and women in the ways that god has designed us but
00:45:21.520when you're thinking of you know at home caring for um three-year-olds you don't want bears doing
00:45:26.840that you you want you want nurturing you know uh so anyway so i i completely agree with you and i
00:45:33.980think that you know there was one study that said uh if women weren't able to vote i think that we
00:45:39.980wouldn't have one uh democrat um president for the last 50 years um that you know if only men
00:45:45.860were voting and and you even see within marriage like statistically when women do get married
00:45:50.640there's a higher likelihood that they begin voting more conservatively um after entering
00:45:56.000into marriage and having children and i'm sure some some influence from their husbands and so
00:46:00.840um i i just thought that that was a bold thing for you to add but it's uh somebody we need to
00:46:06.160talk about um that that i think that's part of the issue and it's not just with the state and
00:46:10.240it's not just with the culture but um i i think there's so much feminization of the church uh to
00:46:16.120where um there's a reason why the church doesn't appeal to men um and i think it's because we've
00:46:21.680said in many ways that uh church isn't for men and uh the sad thing is nothing is for men anymore
00:46:27.380all society is for women and i think that that's that's one of the reasons why there's soft on
00:46:33.360crime policies that are that are driven by women but there's also just exasperated men i think
00:46:38.300that's why jordan peterson has launched into the stratosphere because he had the audacity just to
00:46:43.600say you know that we need a place for men you know and and um and and that resonates you know
00:46:49.600with with many people so um what yeah i mean that there yeah i would just say there's
00:46:54.380yeah i mean what you see is like in academia you see that women tend to be more kind of social
00:47:00.980justice oriented uh less less dispassionate within the academic their field i mean this is
00:47:08.020an aggregate this is not of course there are exceptions and all that but uh and so what you
00:47:13.540get um what you get is this this uh push towards more uh egalitarian policies more egalitarian
00:47:21.540activism and uh and this leads to essentially the smothering of the the the people who are naturally
00:47:31.380uh going to rise to the top and are not going to do that because they're they're beat down because
00:47:37.700they they agonistically and with competition pursue that and you're going to get uh people who
00:47:43.860are um have a propensity for criminality you're going they're just going to kind of run run free
00:47:50.820so you have this the the egalitarian um principle uh that is kind of governs their thought and it
00:48:01.440actually governs our thought now it has for a long time it just it just leads to a society that
00:48:07.540will smother essentially pathologizes masculinity you know so it's it you have to wonder what what
00:48:14.000are men for um in a society that is dominated by kind of a very strict egalitarian governing
00:48:20.880principle yeah um what do you think it is so you said like we've lost it's you said something
00:48:27.640like this so i'm paraphrasing but that we've lost the will to live right it's like um i don't know
00:48:33.880if you ever read, uh, the, the fate of empires, uh, grub something, um, it's just a collection
00:48:40.680of like two essays and talks about, you know, he tracks like how empires on, on average tend to
00:48:45.220live about a quarter of a millennia, you know, through 250 years, give or take. And, um, they
00:48:51.140enter into, you know, their later, uh, stages enter into decadence. And then, you know, there's,
00:48:56.360um, there's a, a lethargy and, and laziness, you know, apathy that comes, but then also it's not
00:49:01.840just that but there's also um a mixture uh that begins to happen like they um it's you know it's
00:49:07.900like they fought to take over the world and they finally did and and they become so strong that
00:49:11.780really there's no they've neutralized all outer threats and so they usually implode from within
00:49:17.440and um and it's usually because of apathy laziness uh empathy is a big thing and so like starting to
00:49:23.840you know where positions of leadership in society become a charity rather than merit and um but then
00:49:30.280also in mixture in terms of um in terms of you know everybody wants to be a part of the empire
00:49:35.780everybody wants to you know there's a lot of times prosperity and opportunity these kinds of things
00:49:40.160and and over time you know um there's all of a sudden there's there's a bunch of people who
00:49:46.420are are living in this particular place that don't really identify with a place who don't
00:49:50.480it's not really their home and and and so you know i another thing that i've heard you say
00:49:56.300on this topic is saying that we need to figure out who we are as America. And it's not just
00:50:04.640that we need to deal with illegal immigration, which we most certainly do immediately. That's0.89
00:50:09.640a huge problem. I mean, you can argue that it's a full-scale invasion that's happening
00:50:15.100with our nation. But then even with legal immigration, that needs to be mitigated0.97
00:50:21.600drastically, at least for a time for us to let the dust settle and have this corporate, you know,
00:50:28.780national identity. And there has to be history, right? A shared history with each other to be
00:50:35.500able to say, yeah, our grandparents worked together or fought in this war together. And not
00:50:39.240just, you know, you arrived 15 minutes ago. There's always going to be some level of immigration,
00:50:44.780people who arrived 15 minutes ago. But if you start talking about a significant portion of
00:50:50.600the population of a nation is people who just just arrived um then and then that nation is is
00:50:56.900in serious trouble and so i guess my question is what what what why what is it that that americans
00:51:02.740have just it really does seem like um like a like slitting your wrist in the bathtub or something
00:51:08.700like like a will a death wish like a will to die like do you think i i feel like some of it is
00:51:13.960laziness and decadence but i think some of it also is just guilt like like winners feel guilty for
00:51:19.320winning or what do you think it is that that america is just because i mean we're really
00:51:23.940like trying to uh to lose yeah i i think the the west generally uh is is in a sense tired
00:51:35.420has lacked has lost self-confidence um is self-loathing uh self-hating uh and and and
00:51:45.520it's to it took i mean that's all pathological but to kind of this intense like perverse degree
00:51:51.500where uh i mean you can see this in a way is more in europe well they'll take in uh you know so-called
00:52:00.260refugees and those refugees will begin to practice their culture as they came from and which violates0.65
00:52:09.240different various western norms uh but then they don't do anything about it so the the country0.98
00:52:15.180uh blames them they blame themselves um for so the germans will blame themselves for the problems in
00:52:21.620the immigrant community and they'll say well you know it's you gotta just just learn to live with
00:52:25.920it it's kind of the common phrase that you hear in all the european countries now you just got
00:52:29.440to learn to live with the new normal uh and it's it's this uh i mean if if a bunch of people came
00:52:37.060into your community and um and then all of a sudden sexual assault sprang up i mean you saw
00:52:42.380this this is i'm not there's not some conspiracy this is documented in a place like sweden and
00:52:48.140germany and all throughout the the europe the spike of sexual assaults if people did that in
00:52:54.840your community and you had kind of a will to live you'd kick them all out right um but uh and0.99
00:53:00.140i mean just like the millions of migrants that came into europe uh a few years ago in 2016 20170.99
00:53:07.620whatever that was that they kept talking that the media would show pictures of of families but the
00:53:12.840vast majority were fighting age young men who came across and this was again documented many times
00:53:20.100uh but people they just kept telling themselves but essentially lying to themselves that it's a
00:53:24.840bunch of families coming across the border like no it's it's actually the it's like 20 something
00:53:29.360year old men who could could be fighting for their country back home so they fled
00:53:32.780to come here and take advantage and exploit the system and all that so but we have this we have
00:53:39.140this um extremely um the west tends to have uh be very altruistic uh especially the anglo
00:53:48.620the anglo tradition is very altruistic and so we tend to think that you know those those
00:53:54.540immigrants they were legitimate refugees they're all of them 100 down to every single one
00:53:59.380and they're not coming here to exploit our system they're coming here to be frenchmen and german
00:54:04.880and dutch and that's why they're coming here they want to be one of us so no i mean that's why
00:54:09.680uh the the suburbs of paris are full of people who've never uh assimilated into to becoming
00:54:15.040french and they resist becoming french because why would they i mean they're not french uh they
00:54:19.460you know so um they're just these lies from from these these all these altruistic principles that
00:54:26.980we flow from i think in america uh that there's a lot of people do come here to be americans
00:54:32.400and i you know i believe that uh very seriously so i think there is some there's some difference
00:54:38.260uh you know here and i think many people go to england for that to become british um but i think
00:54:44.800there's there's the majority at least in continental europe i don't think that was the case
00:54:48.400but in united states we tend to have a more like a geographic that like this universalistic notion
00:54:56.060that we just we just live in like geographic space and uh and where it's a any human could
00:55:03.700come here and be here and that's enough like you're within the borders you're american like
00:55:09.900so there is there's a sense in which we just the united states is a geographic space for like
00:55:15.480everyone all humans and so um and i mean this this it's a very complicated discussion i'm not
00:55:20.980to make it simplistic but because of like what what is you know uh what is america or what does
00:55:25.940it mean to be americans very complicated but but i think that's our our universalistic very
00:55:31.380humanistic mindset that this this space is just for for everyone so anyway anyone can come here
00:55:37.540and i my problem with that is that okay this is a very diverse country but like like you mentioned
00:55:43.620we have to you have to live life in generations here with others you have to like i bring up this
00:55:51.380idea like your grandfather you mentioned in wars like so in that big national events and national
00:55:56.020struggles that tends to bring people together there's the uh if your grandfather went to the
00:56:03.300same high school and that mean i just or your grandfather father worked at this shop and my
00:56:08.580my grandfather already came in or we would go into that shop there'd be stories and
00:56:12.660wasn't that fun when you know this there would just be these this sense of sense of community
00:56:17.060based in generations but if you have people continuously coming in just millions of people
00:56:22.080always coming in they don't have uh like this sort of collective communal memory in this place
00:56:29.200and it's like constantly restarting it like if we just stopped we just theoretically say we stopped
00:56:34.680everyone from coming in and all all we have is the people here here right now it would take
00:56:40.900would take several generations before we could all i think come together as like as a people right um
00:56:47.060not not only be not knowing like through inter intermarriage it doesn't have to be
00:56:50.500intermarriage we have shared experience in this place together right and uh
00:57:00.260yeah and so i mean that's why i oppose immigration for america but yeah it's it's a very it's hard
00:57:04.740We're never going to become an actual nation, given our current level diversity, if we keep importing from mass immigration.
00:57:21.480I think, yeah, so I think there's guilt, there's apathy, there's empathy, you know, that's a twisted sense of thinking like we're, you know, being overly altruistic and, oh, we're helping, you know.
00:57:34.520and this, and this is what it, what it means to be, you know, compassionate, all these kinds of
00:57:38.540things. And I think, you know, the last thought that I kind of had as you were talking was,
00:57:42.260I wonder if social media, you know, just the rise with technology, those kinds of things has
00:57:47.680anything to do with, because there's such a vested interest for individuals today to,
00:57:55.260for their, for their lives and their achievements and, and their, their interests and all these
00:58:00.000different things um to to simply be optics and not necessarily tangible not not necessarily real
00:58:06.080um to just to have you know like like everything you're you do is is to broadcast out to as many
00:58:13.380people you know wanting so much uh um approval from from the masses and i wonder just like as
00:58:19.420the world has gotten smaller through through various technologies and these kinds of things
00:58:23.880that you know caring more about you know what what america looks like on the world stage
00:58:28.980Does, you know, does the UN like us or do other nations think we're nice enough?
00:58:33.040You know, like, whereas, you know, like when your whole focus is oriented in who's physically
00:58:39.680in front of you, you know, it's just like your whole life, right?
00:58:43.200You don't know, you don't have 30,000 fans, you know, or a million.
00:58:47.200Your whole life is, I know about 50 people, you know, by name that are in my life.
00:58:52.660And I've got my wife and I've got my children and I've got my job and I have my church.
00:58:55.900And so, yeah, so I'm going to do what benefits them because they're the only approval that I'm looking for.0.69
00:59:03.320I'm not looking for the approval of someone in Ukraine, you know, like by having, you know, supporting them with this flag, you know, in my bio on my social media page.
00:59:15.300So I guess my question is there's altruism, but do you think altruism is kind of ramped up on steroids because of social media to the point where we just,
00:59:23.480We care more about appearances and global approval than actual tangible growth and productivity and benefit.
00:59:35.580I mean, yeah, I think that a lot of the social media presence is sort of kind of framing an identity.
01:01:41.000And so that aggression is channeled through the Marvelication of through the news media of who's good and who's bad.
01:01:47.860And it's Twitter and social media feeds into this as well.
01:01:51.800And so, yeah, I mean, I think there certainly is this.
01:01:55.660It's appearances, but I mean, but it's more I think it's psychological.
01:01:59.860I think we're just so unable to do anything realistic or, um, tangible and meaningful, uh, in this world that we can just try to get, um, brought into this, this fantasy reality of, of, you know, good and bad and hate and love and hate.
01:02:25.820Well, do you have any final thoughts for our listeners that you'd like to leave us with?
01:02:30.760I mean, the only other question I have in the back of my mind is, you know, from a little bit of, you know, talking with you with some other guys, like-minded, you know, offline, and then watching you already doing some interviews, talking about the book, and then a little bit of the book that I've read so far.
01:02:46.940I've only had it for a couple days at the time that we're recording right now.
01:02:49.640But I, man, I just, I don't understand why Christians would not be for the case that you are making.
01:02:58.340It's, I mean, it's, it's a, this is a historic, this isn't even like a radical, you know, it's, it's just not, it's not that extreme.
01:03:06.700It's just, it's, it's a confessional, you know, reformed Protestant case for, it's Christianity and, and just its natural outworkings in all of our various spheres of life.
01:03:19.180And yet, it's not like you're just going to have a bunch of purple-haired, liberal, progressive people not liking it, but there are apparently, allegedly, conservative Christians who are also not really a fan.
01:03:49.860I feel like, I guess what I'm trying to say is I feel like over the last two and a half years in the providence of God, in his mercy, the veil has been lifted to where, you know, American Christianity is just slowly heating up like the frog in this boiling pot of water.
01:04:03.100And it's like the enemy got too arrogant and turned up the temperature all of a sudden real quick.
01:04:10.160It's like, oh, we were almost to boiling point.
01:04:11.780Let's just go ahead and knock it the rest of the way.
01:04:13.280and the temperature rose quickly and the frog finally felt it and jumped out of the pot.
01:04:18.700And it's like you have half of the evangelical church that finally is awake and realize0.60
01:04:23.940CRT and intersectionality and wokeness and civil tyranny and transing kids in schools0.68
01:04:30.460and all the, like, this is a bad idea.1.00
01:04:35.460But so it's like we had half of us and it really felt like for a couple of years, like
01:04:39.980We have a team here, and now it feels like the team's getting really narrow because we agreed on the problem, but I'm quickly finding that even within the Christian conservative world, we don't agree on the solution.
01:04:51.460Guys who I would have thought even just six months ago, like that guy for sure, he'll be on the team, and they're not.
01:05:04.940I hope I convince a lot of people.0.83
01:05:06.200I think one thing that's going to happen is they're going to try to use the kind of social justice cards to attack Christian nationalism.0.95
01:05:15.460So I made the choice to talk about gynocracy in the book.0.65
01:05:19.320And so they're going to say that I'm misogynist.0.97
01:05:22.560And that's going to be what they're going to try to divide women from this.0.68