00:11:58.340Sometimes we just say no to two bad choices.
00:12:03.360Sometimes we have to remember what it said
00:12:05.440in the movie War Games when we were kids.
00:12:07.940The only way to win the game is not to play.
00:12:11.440And in this case, I think that our only interest, frankly,
00:12:14.420is that um our money laundering interests here in the west primarily through the world economic
00:12:21.540forum and george soros george soros is essentially the sugar daddy of ukraine and he's not a good guy
00:12:28.980obviously uh i think that this is this isn't even like this using the spanish civil war the
00:12:34.540republicans versus the nationalists to for every side for each side to prep for world war ii
00:12:39.620We don't even have those kinds of stakes at stake here. This is really just, will the thugocracy be able to get access to Ukraine's assets and strategic bearing? Or will the kleptocracy continue to allow itself to be an influence-penning money laundering scheme for an entirely different set of corruptocrats?
00:13:01.580that that's really all we're fighting for here there is absolutely nothing righteous here um
00:13:07.100this is sadducees versus pharisees except it's the pharisees that actually aren't even studied
00:13:12.220uh they're just pharisees in name only versus the sadducees that are largely that are denying
00:13:17.340the resurrection so they're basically proto versions of secularists right there just didn't
00:13:22.600try to reform the sanhedrin okay didn't try to pour new wine into old wine skins uh and i think
00:13:28.660we try to do that a lot that was right yeah i think that's really helpful the pharisee sadducee
00:13:32.600kind of thing so with that being said how do you feel about 40 billion dollars to ukraine
00:13:36.440right it sounds like like you neither side is a good pick why why do we have mothers not being
00:13:42.860able to give formula to their kids here in america and we're but what do you think about that
00:13:47.080here's what i think is really happening and man i hope i am wrong okay okay there was a phrase used
00:13:54.520when they voted for that 40 billion dollar swindle about 10 days ago and the phrase that
00:13:59.180was used was lend lease and i don't know if members of your audience know what that is a
00:14:05.480reference to okay but the lend lease was the name of the of the legislation that the congress passed
00:14:14.200in the spring of 1941 when the u.s politically americans still did not want to get involved in
00:14:21.480world war ii another european war we're still digging out of the great depression and revitalizing
00:14:28.060our own society but it was recognized by the by the politicians that sooner or later we were going
00:14:35.500to get roped into this and and and we were concerned that the british the british would lose
00:14:41.260and they were the last line uh the last wall between the nazis and us we were concerned that
00:14:47.280they would lose before we had political clearance from the voters to get in. And so Lend-Lease was
00:14:54.160established as a method by which to get guns, money, resources, munitions, technology to the
00:15:02.480British to try to sustain their war effort long enough for when the time came that the U.S. would
00:15:07.180find its way in the war, which of course came later that year on December the 7th. I think
00:15:13.480that's what their plan is here actually and i don't think there's any moral equivalency between
00:15:18.780those circumstances and what's happening here okay if anything it's hitler versus hitler like i don't
00:15:25.480know i mean klaus schwab versus vladimir putin i mean i mean do you like a bond villain kind of
00:15:30.620hitler or do you like you know a more studious version who looks cool on a horse you know i mean
00:15:36.880which which version of megalomaniac do you prefer um but i think that's what the the the elites in
00:15:43.380our system are planning. The war is not going well for Ukraine. And our own media is actually
00:15:49.260now beginning to admit this, which just goes to show you it's actually going even worse,
00:15:52.900that they're actually admitting that it's not going well. The war is not going well for Ukraine.
00:15:57.080Russia has, aside from taking Kiev and conquering the country, has accomplished most of its original
00:16:03.260strategic initiatives that it claimed was the rationale, the Donbass and the other areas in
00:16:08.060Crimea, it already controls those. And so I think we are just trying to prop up the Ukrainian regime
00:16:15.060long enough so that later this year, like Labor Day or maybe shortly after, when it's pretty
00:16:21.420obvious that this election is lost, you'll see Biden go ahead and put American troops in there
00:16:25.980to try and push the Russians back. And he'll know it's incredibly, well, first of all, he won't know
00:16:32.080because he has dementia. But the people who are actually running the country, they know it'll be
00:16:36.320incredibly unpopular. But at that point, the election is lost. So what's the point?
00:16:39.800And they'll be looking ahead to the next one with a plan of forcing Republicans who will be the new
00:16:44.720majority in Congress to it'll be a chance to split their base. You have to make a choice.
00:16:48.960You have to alienate your rally around the flag, traditional GOP base by not by not funding the
00:16:55.660troops in the war. Or you'll have to alienate this new emerging and bigger base base of America
00:17:01.040firsters by funding the war, especially with Trump getting ready for a likely comeback in 2024.
00:17:07.800And I think that's I hope I'm wrong. I really want to be wrong because the only other option
00:17:14.580here is they just thought it was easier to give Ukraine 40 billion and just to flush it down the
00:17:21.680toilet. OK, that's the only other option. And I hope, you know, I and that's not a comforting
00:17:28.840option it's certainly a better one than what i am proposing um but i think that is their plan
00:17:34.620uh and i think they will do it unless there is the kind even more pushback than what we saw
00:17:42.180in the summer of 2014 when they tried to get us embroiled in the syrian civil war you know with
00:17:47.080john mccain's uh islamic freedom fighters that don't actually actually exist uh because islam
00:17:52.760doesn't even believe in freedom so um i think that's the end game here i hope i'm wrong i hope
00:17:58.600I'm wrong. Yeah, no, that's helpful. Uh, going back to what you said earlier about the Pharisees
00:18:02.780and the Sadducees, I think of, you know, sadly, I think, you know, there's a lot of people within
00:18:06.820my tribe. So I'm, I'm within, you know, the reformed tradition, reformed soteriology. So
00:18:11.780I'm, I'm reformed Baptist 1689 confessional. And, um, I, you know, I've been disappointed
00:18:17.060over the last two years as we've had, you know, civil tyranny and we've had all these different
00:18:21.900things, you know, plaguing the American people and really across the globe. Um, I, I, I hoped
00:18:27.800that my tribe, due to the Protestant resistance theory, guys like John Knox and the Scottish
00:18:34.200Reformers, resistance to tyranny is obedience to God, these kinds of glorious sayings. I thought
00:18:41.180that we would have the theological framework to really lead the charge in terms of civil
00:18:46.780disobedience and obedience to Christ. And to my surprise, it's a bunch of Calvary Chapel guys.
00:18:55.940and i'm grateful for calvary chapel i don't mean that in a negative way but it's not my tribe you
00:19:01.040know they're more arminian they're less reformed and it's you know jack hibbs and it's all these
00:19:04.680you know it's it's my my point is it's like there's this this big game of musical chairs
00:19:09.880right now and everything because every institution has discredited itself whether it be the media
00:19:13.760whether it be pharmacies whether it be you know government academia all these and sadly the
00:19:18.980evangelical church is not uh exempt from this this providential move of god where every major
00:19:25.360institution it's like you know you're seeing the guy pulling the levers behind the curtain
00:19:29.360and so people are moving so i've got all of a sudden you know we we were in california we i
00:19:33.660left with it brought about 20 people with me um at the end of 2020 to plant a new church here in
00:19:39.200texas where i was born and raised and by god's grace we've gone from 20 people to 120 in just
00:19:44.020a year and a half but a lot of the people in our church are not i'm used to pastoring calvinist
00:19:50.500to just say it frankly and i've got a lot of people who are they're like i don't know about
00:19:54.600that Calvinism thing. I don't, I don't know if I like that. Uh, but what I like about your church
00:19:58.280is that, uh, you'll go and, um, and you'll preach out front of the, uh, the courthouse when there's
00:20:03.940some kind of, you know, event happening and you guys don't wear masks and you guys don't shut
00:20:08.920down and you guys, you know what I mean? And, and so it's like, there's these new fault lines,
00:20:13.420like Bodhi Wackham wrote his book fault lines. And so it's like, all of a sudden it's, um,
00:20:17.060there's a shift in these things. And so I say all that back to the Pharisees and the Sadducees to
00:20:21.360say tim keller all right so that was a long lead up to say so tim keller is reformed in his
00:20:25.740soteriology and he's somebody that i really enjoyed once upon a time um but his third way
00:20:31.440ism i don't know how familiar you are with tim keller but it's kind of it's always like well
00:20:34.660there's this and there's that and there's jesus you know there's this and there's that and then
00:20:38.620there's jesus and it's always his third way and he always did that with politics you know it's
00:20:42.840well there's conservatives and there's liberals you know republicans and democrats and then there's
00:20:47.240jesus the impression though that i think a lot of people got including myself because i bought into
00:20:52.760this for a time is um pharisees and sadducees you know so i'm taking your analogy but i'm applying
00:20:57.560it now to to the two parties in our system the impression that we got was okay republicanism
00:21:03.680is not that the republican party and its policies are not synonymous with the bible no christian
00:21:08.460would say that they are but but the impression that people come away with is that their uh
00:21:13.300Democrats in Republican policies are equally distant from the Bible. And so I think there's
00:21:19.220a lot of young voters and a lot of young Christians that are all of a sudden, it's like the veil has
00:21:25.200been lifted. And that lie, that third wayism kind of thing has been really debunked in their minds,
00:21:30.880and they're coming out with a vengeance. And I would be one of them and saying, okay, there is
00:21:34.960a culture war, and we do need to fight. And the Bible calls us to fight, to fight in a godly
00:21:39.680manner but to to fight these kinds of things and so all that what would you say to somebody because
00:21:44.260you talk about the republican party and the problems that they have and sure there are rhinos
00:21:48.020and all these different things but what would you say to someone who says man well steve it sounds
00:21:52.620like there's a lot of problems in the republican party um so i feel like it's a toss-up you could
00:21:57.120go either way um i think much of what you're describing i would just i would describe as a
00:22:05.740false objection okay and that most of the time in my experience and i've spent as much time
00:22:14.540as as almost anybody my age i i certainly have not been at this as long as the original religious
00:22:23.580right guys or some of the more the more um famous ones that are more in my age group or or or a
00:22:32.580little younger boomer who in many cases frankly i'm not fans of because they just allow themselves
00:22:37.260to become to be reduced to mascots for the republican party as opposed to um you know
00:22:43.900someone who represents god's people within that party because i do think there's a difference
00:22:51.120i'll give you an example of what i mean so i don't just leave the audience hanging with that
00:22:54.940they used to say about dr richard land who used to run the f who was the original head of the
00:23:00.920ethics and religious liberty commission at the southern baptist convention uh before what's his
00:23:06.760face whose name i can't remember basically ruined it thank you yeah they used to say about they used
00:23:11.980to say about richard land back in the 80s he used to go to washington and tell them what we at the
00:23:16.380southern baptist convention demanded republicans do but now that nowadays he comes back to washington
00:23:22.400and tells the southern baptist convention what will be permitted to have that's that's what i'm
00:23:27.280talking about, okay? Are you a mascot for a political party? Can you be a Daniel? Can you
00:23:34.280work within the confines of a political party, but the salt doesn't lose its flavor? And when
00:23:38.700they ask you to do that or say that or defend that, which God says is clearly wrong, your answer
00:23:44.200is, that's going to be a no for me, dog, okay? When you guys are right, I'll go to the mattresses
00:23:49.000for you. When you're wrong, that's my tap out, okay? Got a pretty simple standard. When you
00:23:55.020guys are on the side of righteousness i'm right there with you when you're not i'm not i think
00:23:59.720i think a lot of what there's two things that work with the with the pastors and the church
00:24:05.400leadership i think and it from that are gen x my generation and then older millennials that are now
00:24:11.240beginning to take over the pulpits and one is i think a sincere concern they don't want to be the
00:24:17.500next horse for the republican party if i can just put it very bluntly okay they don't want to be the
00:24:21.880next ralph reeds they don't want to be the next richard jeffress they are robert jefferson they
00:24:27.700don't want to be those guys and and i don't want them to be either by the way i don't okay and i'm
00:24:32.740not i'm not buddies with any of those kinds of guys okay when i mobilize evangelicals it's not
00:24:38.720to sell out a conference or to build my donor base it was to actually win elections to like move
00:24:45.380numbers on the ground that's why i kept getting i kept being being asked to join iowa caucus
00:24:50.960campaigns during presidential elections because me and the people i work with can move numbers on
00:24:56.100the ground not just put out press releases sell out a banquet and line our pockets we're actually
00:25:01.700trying to win okay and so i i totally get not wanting to be the next generation of republican
00:25:08.360prostitutes because the party's not worth it anyway at least esau got a got a got a bowl of
00:25:13.760stew you want to get that from republican leader and i tell my audience all the time you probably
00:25:18.560heard me say this the only political party to hate you more than the democrats are the republicans
00:25:21.920because the democrats it's just straight up honest hatred of what you believe you can deal
00:25:28.040with that otherwise you haven't been a christian for more than two minutes okay it's it's the jesus
00:25:33.940doesn't say hey look out for those wolves with their shiny shiny teeth and sharp claws we know
00:25:38.460what to do with them okay it's the guy it's the wolf in sheep's clothing that's the issue i mean
00:25:42.960you're totally fine taking on nancy pelosi with a gun at your face it's mitch mcconnell
00:25:47.000shaking you in the back that's what you can't defend yourself against because the guys that
00:25:51.500most people that become democrats run for office to do things most people become republicans run
00:25:56.680for office to be somebody and so you and i our people come along and say hey we need you to do
00:26:04.200we need you to do blank blank blank blank policies well i'm just here to work my side of k street bro
00:26:09.240i'm not here for you you know and vote for me because if you know then the communists will win
00:26:13.960They hate your guts. So, I'm not here to pump them up or elevate them in any way, shape, or form, okay? That all being said, though, that's a very small group of pastors that I think are just, will directly preach the gospel and right and wrong from the pulpit, but will just not directly politically or culturally engage out of fear of getting co-opted from a political party.
00:26:39.200Right. I don't blame them for that at all. And frankly, if they if they just do that first thing of boldly proclaiming the truths of God's word, the rest of pastors weren't politically involved in the 40s, dude, or the 50s or the or the or the or the 20s or the 1890s.
00:26:57.860OK, they just did their damn job. And, you know, and then the saints left the church and were like, I got my marching orders. Now I do my job.
00:27:05.840okay well and i to interject i would say i think i personally think just a little bit of pushback
00:27:11.620here that's part of why we're in the boat that we're in i i personally think that there's a lot
00:27:16.300of christians who are under the impression that the bible it's it's family in the church home of
00:27:20.940the church home of the church and so i have i have this theology i have these this set of principles
00:27:24.740that applies to my marriage and my parenting right another marriage conference another parenting
00:27:28.820conference another marriage and it applies to church planting right the church planting movement
00:27:33.080and overseas missions and it's like the boomers for instance you know i i you know i i want to
00:27:37.960it's hard for me i'm an older millennial and so it's hard for me because i want to i want to keep
00:27:42.260to the fifth commandment honor thy father and mother and i don't want to be i don't want to
00:27:45.360be like the progressives that's how hypocritical would it be that's that's everything that they're
00:27:49.320doing is dismantling the work of our fathers our you know our proverbial fathers and saying
00:27:54.240everything they did was wrong and everything they did is bad that said so i want to honor
00:27:57.960boomers as much as i can that said though i think that you know boomers sought to fulfill
00:28:02.560global missions and uh and their kids grew up and denied the faith and would apostate
00:28:07.680they they they beat communism abroad only to allow it to be imported to all their
00:28:12.580institutions here so so anyways i'm just saying that i think let me finish my go ahead go ahead
00:28:17.780my point was because they they fulfilled their primary mission of preaching the gospel
00:28:23.300the issues of morality were not politicized in their era it was not considered the idea
00:28:32.500that the only people who thought that it was bad to kill your child before it was born
00:28:40.060would belong to one particular party. And then the people in the other party would not only think
00:28:45.340it's not bad, but shout their abortions, that would have blown their frigging minds.
00:28:51.360Those were moral absolutes. They were universal. And that's what kept the two political parties
00:28:57.960largely in this left of center right of center sort of narrow overton window right okay what's
00:29:05.880happened is that window has been smashed by the stained glass window smashers the iconoclasts
00:29:10.800and so and so what's happened is the church wants to remain in the same somewhat politically
00:29:16.500neutral position it was in so that it doesn't become co-opted the problem is though that what
00:29:23.240it thinks is the democratic party isn't a party it's a cult right progressivism isn't a political
00:29:28.520ideology it's a rival religion it's a religion yeah and in no other culture would the church
00:29:34.700would the church plant itself and then never directly confront the enemy the enemy religion
00:29:41.700to the gospel i mean there are you know the stories of of of saint boniface with the norsemen
00:29:48.020cutting down the odin tree right in their faces right because he was disgusted with their pagan
00:29:52.700worship okay that that the the church understood we have to do if the only way out is through we
00:29:59.540have to directly confront the demonic false religions or the pagan transcendent false
00:30:06.960religions we have to directly confront them in contrast with the gospel a lot of american pastors
00:30:13.300want to pretend as if they don't have to do that and to and to do that would meet would make them
00:30:19.900republicans right and so that's their excuse that's their false objection to not doing their
00:30:26.020job that's the point i make yeah and it's their fig leaf and so what happens is they end up
00:30:33.800importing a lot of that belief system into their churches and i i gave i had a i had i've had this
00:30:39.440conversation with several pastors over the last few years if you let's let's remove america from
00:30:44.980equation okay if you went to some third world country as a missionary and and when you arrived
00:30:56.420there was a there was a a pagan religion that had dominated that community that village for
00:31:04.020for a generation so that the water supply you're tapping into all right the the human resource
00:31:11.800supply you're tapping into, whether they go and perform the rituals of that cult or not,
00:31:17.220they're all infected with it. They're all influenced by it. It's been the leading
00:31:20.600depositor of influence, the leading hub of influence in that village years before you
00:31:26.340arrived. If you went there and just, hey, I'm going to build my tent, we're going to do some
00:31:30.280revival, I'm going to preach the open air, open the Bible, preach the word. And I just preached
00:31:34.420the Bible as a standalone construct, and I never directly confronted the baggage that the people
00:31:42.460I'm preaching to are bringing into my ministry, would that be an effective methodology of
00:31:50.380evangelism? No. No. In fact, what is most of the New Testament? When we get done with the Gospels,
00:31:56.820The rest of it are, frankly, letters, epistles written by Paul, John, Peter, James, Jude, addressing the cultural rot gut that was influencing the communities.
00:32:10.640They were just called Colossae, Corinth, Philippi, that they were specifically who are the who are the Judaizers?
00:32:20.420Who who was who was the woman coming from the pagan temple?
00:32:23.800Who's the guy in the front row with his arm around his mom that Paul's talking about?
00:32:27.380These are specific people, specific movements.
00:33:09.200And so I honor the instinct of not wanting to be the next generation of pastors completely used, abused, and ridden hard and put away wet by the Republican Party.
00:33:21.640But but is that your real concern or is it a false objection excuse for you not to confront the spirit of the age?
00:33:29.940And it's your fault, frankly, that it's that the spirit of the age is largely embodied in a political party because you didn't confront this for a generation when it was a broader cultural issue.
00:33:40.140Back in 1998, Bill Clinton was signing the Defense of Marriage Act in the law and almost every damn Democrat voted for it.
00:33:45.680OK, that was when you had a chance to stay out of politics directly and directly engage what was going on in the culture and restore moral universal absolutism.
00:33:57.380You chose not to do that. You chose to punt. You chose to go to a Rick Warren seminar on church growth.
00:34:04.040right okay you chose that and so now now what's happened is it's weaponized it's not the fringes
00:34:11.400of san francisco or the bowels of a college campus it is weaponized in the full form of
00:34:17.740a political party and there's only two of them that matter in america and so we've got one of
00:34:21.660them given over to demon to demonics basically and that happened because the church chose a
00:34:26.660different path coming in the 90s and early 2000s than directly confronting this stuff
00:34:31.800And to the point that it would be politically obscene for any mainstream Democrat outside of a place like San Francisco to embody this.
00:34:40.180Now, now they've become governor of Kansas saying this stuff.
00:34:55.080And now it is mainstream and weaponized, not just even in the universities, but all of the government schools down there.
00:35:00.840Now we had drag queen story time hour at every public library that matters in America.
00:35:05.540And so now you have no choice. You cannot confront the baggage your people come to your congregation with, the lost come to you with.
00:35:15.920You cannot confront it without confronting what is said in left wing media and what is said by left wing politicians, because they are its acolytes.
00:35:25.620they are they are the shamans of the of of that the church confronted in yesteryear
00:35:32.320they are the high priestesses that the church confronted in yesteryear right they're they're
00:35:38.760the idea that we're going to put naked men in locker rooms to rape our daughters and nieces
00:35:45.020and wives and sisters that originated that's a public policy from a political party that is not
00:35:53.360just that's not some esoteric work of a of you know of a naval went to the naval ponderer
00:36:00.800with his own theological you know ruminations that no one pays attention to they're freaking
00:36:06.040doing that they're doing it and they're doing it because you didn't you didn't damn the river at
00:36:11.240its source so now that now the water's flowing downstream now and it's got momentum and the and
00:36:18.000now is fully weaponized within a modern american political party the way it was and that's just
00:36:24.540the democrats in another era we would have called them caligula in another era we would have called
00:36:29.660them nero or domitian that's what we would have called them in another era that they're just
00:36:34.160called democrats right yeah it's you know everything you're saying is really good it's
00:36:37.520it's certainly a religion i like um one theologian the hardest boss he actually is the guy who trained
00:36:42.120cornelius van till van till was big on presuppositional apologetics and from his thought
00:36:47.960that's where we got greg bonson uh which i would agree with a lot of greg bonson and his theonomic
00:36:52.860fault uh thought so i would consider myself to be a general equity theonomist and uh wanting to
00:36:57.860apply divine law in the realm of of the you know the civil government and so all those kinds of
00:37:03.120things but all the way back to voss one of the things he said and you might end up using this
00:37:06.260on on one of your shows it's so easy with abortion to say all right molek this is religion this is a
00:37:11.340false god. It's not science. It's secularism is a religion. And this is just one of the sacraments.
00:37:17.320But when you think of transgenderism, one of the things that Voss said about the Asherah poles,
00:37:21.340so you think of, you know, Molech, Baal, Baal, you know, and then you think of like Asherah,
00:37:26.320the Asherah poles were in stark contrast by design to a fruitful tree. A tree has branches,
00:37:32.900it has limbs, it bears fruit, it produces something. The Asherah pole, it makes me think
00:37:37.560of isengard you know the two towers you know and tear down the trees you know and so it's stripped
00:37:42.520of all of its fruitfulness all of its life it's it's no longer verdant it's turned into a pole
00:37:47.500and so when you think of transgenderism and stripping away fruitfulness and and reproductive
00:37:52.680organs and those kinds so more like you know with abortion and then asherah with transgenderism and
00:37:57.120so the sacraments you know all you know and the high priestesses and then everything has an
00:38:01.620orthodoxy right the idea of you know cancel culture well i i do want to cancel i want to
00:38:06.480cancel wickedness i i'm happy to cancel wickedness i think that that anytime you legislate neutrality
00:38:11.780is a myth and i think we bought that as a as as evangelicals we we bought into that neutrality
00:38:16.920was actually something that was possible and oh you know government is neutral cultural believe
00:38:21.220we had cultural hegemony that's why explain that because we were we bought into that we bought into
00:38:27.200that faustian bargain because we figured it always worked to our favor because we're the majority
00:38:31.600We're the silent majority. We're the hegemony. We're the belief system that is the mainstream default in America. And so you cut deals like that when, you know, there's the King David who, when he unites the tribes of Israel, disrobes, and when his first wife questions him on it, he says, I'll become even more undignified than this to honor the Lord for what he has done through me.
00:38:58.020And then there's the King David that after he's been a king for a while and he thinks he's got it going on.
00:39:02.400Then he decides in the springtime when kings went off to war, David stays behind.
00:39:06.600When you think you're when you think you are in charge.
00:39:11.300And you and therefore you can only lose.
00:39:13.500You're at a point of diminishing returns.
00:39:17.400The reason why the early church never made those kinds of compromises, the reason why Christians in China,
00:39:22.120And there's far better odds today that if you're born in Beijing, China, you will eventually get converted to Christianity than if you're born in Boston, Massachusetts, or any major urban population center in the U.S.
00:39:33.080Actually, we look at the numbers, but they're not making those kinds of calculations in the Christian church in China.
00:39:38.460Why? Because they're underground and aren't permitted any above ground real influence whatsoever to peddle or to trade off.
00:39:46.740They aren't permitted political trade-offs.
00:39:49.020They're just trying to survive and exist the way most of Christianity did for its first
00:39:52.9801,500 years, the founding of this country.
00:39:55.980It's because of the amount of comfort we have and social station we have that we believe
00:41:28.900And so underneath our comfort and the veneer of wholesomeness, morally therapeutic pietism, as it's sometimes referred to as.
00:41:42.420germinating just underneath the surface of that because we're very comfortable
00:41:46.560um was the next layer of evil which we simply were completely unprepared for and within a
00:41:56.580generation launched the sexual revolution and had essentially unmoored the the american family
00:42:03.180before we even got to jimmy carter and the reagan revolution and everything else and so
00:42:08.740that's where we that is where we have to be careful and and and just my i have fears about
00:42:14.940that as a believer and that's one of the reasons why i am so adamant there's two reasons why i'm
00:42:20.540adamant about using leading with the biblical worldview on my show one uh is because i think
00:42:27.280it's the ultimate truth of the universe and i don't think there's any hope whatsoever for the
00:42:34.800human condition without the word of god that's number one okay the other reason is though and
00:42:40.980it's a very minor reason that's like 90 of why i do it the other 10 of why i do it though is a
00:42:46.380check on myself to make sure i don't just create a more principled version of the religious fallacy
00:42:55.140that failed in the previous generation right amen so i'm going to preach the same morally
00:42:59.380therapeutic pietism i'm just not going to take kickbacks from the republican party to do it
00:43:03.640Right. I'm just not going to endorse every rhino for a seat at the table to do it. I'm going to be very, I'll be more principally, more personally principled, but I'll be, I'll present the exact same fallacy.
00:43:16.440And so I check on my own spirit and another reminder that ultimately Jesus didn't die for a theology. I think theology is extremely important.
00:43:26.080you can probably tell given the fact that used a lot of real inside baseball theological names
00:43:32.200and terms in this conversation so far and for the most part i've been able to keep up yeah okay
00:43:36.580yeah and you've used a lot of political terms and names and for the most part i have not been
00:43:41.040able to keep up but i sit here and i nod my head i don't know who that is or what that means but
00:43:46.340i'm going yeah i recognize jimmy carter i know reagan but i i love theology yeah but jesus
00:43:53.900didn't die for a theology. Jesus died for people. And we have to remember, ultimately, that it is
00:44:01.640not by a perfect systematic theology or cultural hermeneutic that God's people will be known. But
00:44:09.740as you just used the term, by their fruit, you will know them. And you look at those early
00:44:14.320disciples, first disciples, you mentioned there's kind of this eclectic movement forming right now,
00:44:19.200right right that was a pretty eclectic group fishermen tax tax collector okay um i mean that's
00:44:27.920a pretty eclectic group that that was originally collected zealot in there you know and i think of
00:44:34.500like i think of what the lord's doing now it's like yeah there's a couple guys it's like okay
00:44:37.720let's i want to abolish abortion but let's not bomb the clinic you know like so you gotta hold
00:44:43.160a couple guys back and that's kind of you know you've got this a similar group yeah and i think
00:44:48.460that that is that we that it's not about saving america it's about saving americans
00:44:57.960right and this isn't a country with a perfect history right i'm still very proud and that to
00:45:06.460be an american thankful to god let me created me to be one because it's still the greatest place
00:45:12.040to ever live in the history of humanity but did i did i say it was the perfect place to live
00:45:17.020No. Did I say it was it was it was uniquely and specifically and perpetually righteous?
00:45:25.260No. So we're here to save Americans. And and when there are more states than sinners around here, that's what makes for an exceptional country.
00:45:35.760and i and i think we just need to be careful that the reason why we can't get we can't overcome the
00:45:43.780rhinos in the republican party isn't because they're just this much smarter at this than we
00:45:50.220are i wish that were true i could live with that actually yeah well we'd have we'd have less moral
00:45:56.160responsibility if they actually just beat us outright we could stand before jesus and say
00:46:00.520we tried and they would just that's exactly right that's and that's and you just quantified why i
00:46:05.340could live with it is what you just said okay it's it's what's more what's painful to me is
00:46:10.980the opposite is true it's that the the number one news outlet for our people and more christians
00:46:17.560know more about what is said on fox news every day than what's in their bibles right that's the
00:46:23.040same fox news i played two clips from fox news on my show today one of them can the lenski to
00:46:27.780patent for goodness sakes and the other citing a reuters fact check that that the election was
00:46:34.060stolen okay um now that doesn't mean that the election was stolen it was but that is that
00:46:39.980doesn't mean that it's just the reuters should be not be the evidence for anything you cite if you
00:46:45.080spend five seconds ever reading less if you're fox news yes that's a little bit like showing up
00:46:50.940at the council of jerusalem in the first century and saying guys i've got this uh you know i've got
00:46:56.220this uh rome just completely debunked this whole thing is misinformation okay yeah all right they're
00:47:02.900the news source for the regime for goodness sakes or one of them okay and and and that's what our
00:47:08.160people are watching all day long well now i get why all these rhino pukes when all these primaries
00:47:13.420if that's our people are low information too yeah okay john porten john porten must be a great
00:47:20.140senator he must be a real rock-ripped conservative because he's a senator from texas it's a complete
00:47:25.220hack a complete hack but hey he was on fox news he's on hannity so he's great he must be good
00:47:31.500Yeah. It must be good. And that's the stuff that has me pulling what hair I have left out.
00:47:37.360Right. Well, and then the other half, right? So half is listening. You're right. So half listening
00:47:40.680to Fox News and a low understanding of what's really going on. And so, yeah, so they're squishy
00:47:45.920because they're listening to squishy leaders. And so they're squishy followers. The other half,
00:47:50.400though, is following, especially back to the reform camp, kind of my tribe and my experience.
00:47:55.520It's like, okay, so I was a part of Acts 29. I don't know if you're familiar with that,
00:47:59.080but i was a pastor in act 29 i left when eric mason he was on the board at the time for acts 29
00:48:04.360internationally and very close friend of matt chandler who's the president of act 29 he came
00:48:09.260out with his book woke church and i pulled our church out of act 29 i said no no way wouldn't
00:48:15.040like no i'm not going to preach the gospel of jesus christ and tell people if they're white
00:48:19.620to hate themselves i'm not doing that i'm white my kids are white like i you know i'm just not
00:48:25.120this this whole systematic racist you know thing i'm not doing it we wouldn't tell any group to
00:48:30.260hate themselves yeah except for white people yeah yeah we would but we wouldn't that's i think that's
00:48:36.680where we have that's where we have to come off the top rope here and take the conversation higher
00:48:40.960it's not that it's wrong to tell a particular group of people to tell white people to hate
00:48:47.860themselves it is wrong to first of all we are created individually and uniquely in the image
00:48:54.020of God. Individually, he has counted all of the hairs on our head. We are individually given
00:48:59.360gifts. Individually, we can boldly approach the throne of grace without an intermediator, okay?
00:49:06.400It's about my, when I stand before God at my judgment seat, there will be no witnesses. This
00:49:12.760won't be a trial. I won't have a committee to appeal to. It will be one-on-one, me against my
00:49:17.760creator are my sins blood bought and forgiven by christ through the sack his atoning sacrifice
00:49:24.720or not yes pass through if not pass down okay that's it there won't be opening closing arguments
00:49:31.780we won't have a we won't subpoena anybody we won't have any any intermediaries whatsoever
00:49:36.600it's a one-on-one transaction so it's it's antithetical to biblical christianity to tell
00:49:42.600any group to hate themselves right on a group entity basis right and what happens when you do
00:49:47.080that when you start having a collective moral responsibility you ultimately end up with the
00:49:50.520underlining tone which is no moral responsibility and criminals become victims and victims become
00:49:55.520criminals and so that's that's what it ultimately amounts to is that nobody's actually responsible
00:50:00.480for their own choices nobody so instead of standing before the god of heaven who will lay
00:50:04.960every thought bare and then i have to give an account and my only defense is to point to jesus
00:50:09.800and say no i am i am a sinner but he paid for it it's already been paid in full instead of this
00:50:14.400individual basis it's you know it's uh well you're guilty for for everything within your people group
00:50:19.380and you get you know you get grouped into these different identities based off of these
00:50:23.860characteristics and race just happens to be a popular and people have done this in societies
00:50:27.620for for centuries and centuries and centuries it's just in america because of our unique history
00:50:32.100with the african slave trade that race works that you can hustle race better than you know then
00:50:37.540like like you know marx would have been furious he would have been like no this is not what i meant
00:50:42.000I meant classes class, you know, like my brother. So me and him are very different. My brother is
00:50:47.040a Marxist and he, he hates the identity politics, all about race, the transgenderism stuff, all this
00:50:52.540he's, he's furious. So he sees the arc of human history. Exactly. So he's furious about it,
00:50:58.200but he recognizes he's like, yeah, but it wouldn't work in America. And I was like, why,
00:51:01.660why would it not work brother? And why would, why would Mark's system of classes not work?
00:51:06.380And he'll even admit, you know, he'll say, you know, to some extent he'll say, well,
00:51:09.520part of the reason it wouldn't work is because the middle class, even though somebody else is
00:51:13.560making 200 times the amount, the middle class still makes enough to have two cars, a nice
00:51:17.960house, vacations in the summer, and they're not upset enough or oppressed enough to revolt.
00:51:25.600The West came in America mainly and then exported it to the rest of the West. But the West came up
00:51:31.980with two devices that Marx never foresaw because in a purely naturalistic sense, his view of the
00:51:39.700world was largely correct. If you remove Christ and redemption from the equation and just look
00:51:46.220at it in the natural sense, whether we call it mercantilism, feudalism, colonialism, whatever
00:51:52.220the ism of the era was, his view is largely correct. It just lacks the dynamism that is
00:51:58.080produced by the transformation of a relate of a one-on-one relationship with jesus christ
00:52:02.540all right but but we came up with two social devices he did not foresee okay a middle class
00:52:08.920right and collective bargain he didn't foresee those two things oh you mean you mean the that
00:52:14.120the the workers can now combine together to collectively to leverage their their uh skills
00:52:20.540and relationships as a hedge against robber baronism right didn't foresee those two things
00:52:26.120which is why we never flirted with those things here which to your brother it's a little bit like
00:52:32.580if if if if we if we if someone came forth and said i found jesus's remains
00:52:39.080the doom wasn't empty i found the remains we carbon dated it the dna all checks out
00:52:45.500the dude actually died now for some of us we might view that as a real demonic scheme it wouldn't
00:52:53.800really test our faith at the core. But for a lot of people, frankly, it kind of would, wouldn't it?
00:52:59.540Sure. Okay. Probably not for the elect, but it would for pretty much everybody else,
00:53:04.120particularly those in the nominal camp. But likewise, isn't that what your brother's admitting?
00:53:08.900Your brother wants to belong. And see, this is how I love how we can make arguments.
00:53:13.340Your brother is admitting to you that he wants to devote his life to a philosophy
00:53:18.000that has shown in certain circumstances, it can't possibly work.
00:53:23.800Who would do that? Who would say, I want to devote my life to a philosophy that the most successful nation on earth, I admit, the most successful nation on earth has demonstrated actually does not work.
00:53:35.500It's never been, it's never been truly tried though, Steve.
00:53:43.240But I just, back to the original point, I think it is important for us.
00:53:49.160I don't think it's a choice between standing for what's right in the culture and leading with Jesus.
00:53:56.440We stand for what's right in the culture because we lead with Jesus.
00:54:00.220because to not directly address evil if you found out tomorrow that my next door neighbors over here
00:54:09.100were a child sacrificing cult and i've lived next door to him for 15 years
00:54:14.320and i do this show with hundreds of thousands of downloads every day
00:54:19.860and i'm open about my faith and i speak at churches all over the country
00:54:23.820but i never bothered to question dude what's with all the strange kids coming in and out of
00:54:29.940the house throughout all hours of the night and you know what's with the chanting you know what
00:54:35.060i'm saying and the screams ah not my thing the third way here is for me to i'm just going to go
00:54:41.420on my show and i'm just going to stick to presenting the gospel but i'm going to absolutely
00:54:45.000pay no attention to the evil around me whatsoever would you look at me as a good christian as good
00:54:49.600steward of my faith if that were if that story were to come out no no that's essentially what
00:54:55.440is being argued for by a lot of american pastors so i don't believe in the false choice between
00:55:01.420call it third wayism you can call it whatever you want i just call it fig leaf gutlessness
00:55:06.200there's a false choice between that and then just becoming a whore for the gop right there's a wide
00:55:13.400chasm there between those two between turning up people around us and then just becoming essentially
00:55:19.280a street hooker for a political party that hates me right there's i gotta think everyone watching
00:55:24.860right now, and everyone on the comments and everything else, we got to believe that somewhere
00:55:29.360in the wide chasm between these two choices, there is some place where we can actually,
00:55:34.940let me throw this out there, do both. That we can simply say, I'm here to support this cause
00:55:42.620because my Lord compels me. The Holy Spirit within me convicts me that this is right. And I've seen
00:55:50.660the changes in my own life when I've been sanctified by giving myself over to that
00:55:56.580conviction. And I want to share that goodness and taste and see that the Lord is good. I want to
00:56:03.220share that goodness with others. But when you ask me to, you know, give 40 billion to Ukraine
00:56:09.980and we'll give you, no, no, I'm not. I'm not here to conduct deals. You know, when you guys are
00:56:17.760right i got your back when you're not i'm i'm i didn't move you did okay and and so there must
00:56:25.820the problem is we don't non-conformity isn't great for business belonging to a team or a tribe
00:56:36.140is and to your credit you've pointed out hey i've had to align myself theologically with people that
00:56:41.640i kind of thought i was going to have to theologically correct or even oppose in some
00:56:46.320cases but it's like what it's like what the apostles say hey lord this person over here is
00:56:50.300doing these incredible things in your name but he's not one of us right should we go over there
00:56:54.440and no right if he's not against us you know not against us of course yes and i think the fact
00:57:01.740you're seeing such an eclectic group of critical thinkers emerge across our tribal lines i think
00:57:07.760if you look at the history of how god's economy operates that is at least a hint that it could
00:57:13.800very well be a movement of god cool well let's go ahead and land the plane here let me let me ask
00:57:19.360you one more question and frame it up for a moment so you mentioned the overton window and how it used
00:57:24.980to be so much more narrow you know in the 70s and the 80s you know in the 90s um and and now it's
00:57:30.260like i mean when 49 out of 50 democrats they don't just vote to codify row they were way past
00:57:35.900anything that row ever said and even that i always i want to say to the conservatives you see what
00:57:40.740they're doing right now how they're scrambling to try to codify real meaning what it was never law
00:57:45.600it was a supreme court opinion yeah they're admitting their own yeah so now all even a lot
00:57:51.260of the pro-life industry is the veils being lifted it's like oh yeah you guys could have been doing
00:57:56.300more this whole time but you were splitting the penny a million different times with you know like
00:58:01.080so they'll come in in spice yet you reject mercy and spirit of the law you should have kept the
00:58:08.360letter of the law christ says right yeah nothing wrong with the letter of the law but you don't do
00:58:12.420it in spite of the spirit of the law that's right together so with so with the overton window it's
00:58:17.220like when you got 49 democrat and they're not just trying to codify row but they were trying
00:58:21.000to you know abortion for any reason in any state all the way up until the baby takes his first
00:58:24.360breath that's 49 out of 15 you have that as a party as an ethos and you know and then you've
00:58:29.600got companies like disney you know and and netflix is starting to see oh snap we don't want to be
00:58:34.540disney go woke go broke you know but like you've got this over here and then and then you've got
00:58:39.240you don't just have the right but you have it's starting to splinter and so you've got some of
00:58:42.940these like these new conservatives and and you've got some of them you know um i'm not saying they're
00:58:48.200you know far right in the sense of like they're conspiracy theorists i'm sure you got plenty of
00:58:53.200those too but but my point is like you've got guys like me i'll just throw my myself in as an
00:58:57.300example that um i you know i'm like man i want us to i don't want to just conserve i want to reform
00:59:02.780the nation. I want reformation. I want us to go back to God's law, back to, you know, very,
00:59:08.120very, very conservative. So my point is just to say the Overton window is just massive right now.
00:59:14.440And so the question is, you know, how does a nation, I mean, you know, I feel like we've
00:59:20.180been in a cold civil war. I think I've heard you and other guys talk about that for a little while
00:59:23.920now. It hasn't gotten hot yet, but still it's cold. And I think of, I don't know if you ever
00:59:28.680read, it was a couple of essays put together grubs, I think was his last name, but the fate
00:59:32.600of empires. And he does this, this survey of world history and talks about how every major empire
00:59:37.660lived, you know, it lasted for about 250 years, like right on the dot. And, you know, and we're,
00:59:42.160we're right there. However, back to what you said in the very beginning, it is unique that America,
00:59:46.540I, cause I would agree with you. I think the American experiment is the closest. I'm not
00:59:51.200saying it's synonymous. I'm not saying that it's not, uh, that it's perfect, but the closest to a
00:59:55.520nation built on biblical values, the biblical worldview that I think the world has seen.
01:00:00.520So I think, you know, we could have maybe more than 250 years. But my point is, it seems like
01:00:05.900when a nation gets that strong, if it's Rome or Persia or Assyria or Babylon or whatever it is,
01:00:11.840a nation reaches the point of strength to where the only thing that ultimately takes it down
01:00:17.160is enemies within it's it's it's an implosion um of of division um that the people there's a
01:00:24.380decadence that begins there's a there's a um like david he's older right kings go to war but i think
01:00:29.660i'll sit this season out you know and and it's self-sabotage and it's division within the ranks
01:00:35.940and and then and then somebody when they're weak then somebody comes in and and takes over and so
01:00:40.120my question is um are we going to have a civil war are we going to have a peaceful just divide
01:00:46.980a bit like that some i mean something's going to have to happen this can't this isn't sustainable
01:00:52.140well i think the setup to your question is spot on every syllable uh i've got good friends in
01:00:59.360our industry slash movement that are advocates of what they call national divorce and i don't
01:01:04.780believe that's possible because we're we're we're not dealing with a with an aberrant political
01:01:10.660philosophy but a religion these are jehovah's witnesses with tanks right it doesn't matter how
01:01:16.760many times you remind you show them the proof that their founder charles tasey russell admitted once
01:01:21.680in court under oath that he could not translate hebrew or greek but he could claim to still offer
01:01:27.880his author his own bible translation right it doesn't matter how many times you deconstruct
01:01:32.480the watchtower society or ask them questions like so if only 144 000 people are going to be saved
01:01:38.860But there's already four and a half million of you. Why are you still trying to add to your ranks?
01:01:43.240It would seem like you have to settle some things internally here first. Right.
01:01:47.120Those arguments don't work because it's religious, not science, not religious.
01:01:52.340That's it's beyond logic. That's exactly right. And so I think that if we were capable of national divorce, we wouldn't be here.
01:02:00.320They're not going to let us go. You're right. California and New York are going to let all those sunbelt states with low debt and high earnings.
01:04:23.920And all of our listeners, we appreciate you guys, your support, your encouragement, and your prayers.
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01:04:48.200All right, great. Thanks so much for tuning in and thanks for coming on the show, Steve.
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