The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Civil War Is Coming ｜ Where You Live Matters

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, real quick, before we get started, I have a small request.

00:00:03.440 If you've been blessed by our content and you like this show,

00:00:06.440 would you take just a brief moment and leave us a five-star review?

00:00:09.760 This is quite possibly the most effective thing that you can do

00:00:12.880 to ensure that this content gets out to as many people as possible. Thanks.

00:00:18.280 Hi, this is Pastor Joel Webbin with Right Response Ministries.

00:00:20.760 You're listening to another episode of Theology Applied.

00:00:23.700 In this episode, I was privileged to have as a special guest,

00:00:26.760 Steve Dace from The Blaze Network.

00:00:29.460 and we talk about really a bunch of stuff.

00:00:32.520 We talk about Russia and Ukraine.

00:00:33.920 We talk about a civil war in America.

00:00:36.240 We talk about a peaceful divorce possible option.

00:00:39.080 And we talk about ultimately what we hope

00:00:41.360 that the Lord might bring,

00:00:42.540 which is revival and reformation.

00:00:44.960 I think it's an insightful conversation.

00:00:48.800 Steve has headed up Ted Cruz and his campaign

00:00:53.020 when he was running for president.

00:00:54.760 So the unique thing in having him on the show

00:00:56.460 and one of the reasons I wanted to have him on the show

00:00:58.480 is because he has more political expertise,

00:01:02.000 actual experience in that field,

00:01:04.220 running campaigns, working in local politics

00:01:06.420 than most of the guests that I have.

00:01:08.280 So yes, he has the theological background

00:01:09.860 and yes, he loves the Lord Jesus Christ

00:01:11.600 and he's a Christian,

00:01:13.020 but he also has not just understanding political matters

00:01:17.660 at a theological, theoretical level,

00:01:20.300 but actually on the ground in these machines,

00:01:24.180 pulling levers.

00:01:25.120 And so I think you'll be blessed by this conversation

00:01:27.320 and learn a lot. I know that I did. Thanks for tuning in.

00:01:30.860 Applying God's Word to Every Aspect of Life. This is Theology Applied.

00:01:41.640 All right, welcome to another episode of Theology Applied. I am your host, Pastor Joel Webin with

00:01:45.740 Right Response Ministries, and today I'm very privileged to be joined by Steve Dace. I'm pretty

00:01:50.740 sure that's how you pronounce it, Steve. Did I get it right? Correct. You did? Well done. Correct.

00:01:54.400 All right, Steve, go ahead and just introduce yourself to our listeners.

00:01:57.060 Thanks so much for coming on the show.

00:01:58.660 Sure.

00:01:58.800 I host the show on Blaze TV after Glenn Beck each weekday from noon to 2 Eastern that

00:02:04.320 you can subscribe to the podcast version or the TV version over at blazetv.com slash

00:02:11.160 Dace.

00:02:11.600 I've written several books.

00:02:13.780 My last one, or my second to last one, Fauci and Bargain, the most powerful and dangerous

00:02:19.600 bureaucrat in American history.

00:02:20.780 That actually went to number one overall on Amazon, where 83% of all American book sales take place every day.

00:02:27.940 So that's far more indicative of the success of a book than The New York Times, completely rigged bestseller list.

00:02:35.640 One of my books, a nefarious plot about a satanic takeover of America, is due out in the next six to eight months as a film adaptation.

00:02:46.920 We've already made the movie. It's in post-production now.

00:02:50.780 Uh, I used to be a senior strategist for the Ted Cruz for president campaign.

00:02:55.240 I think that's probably what other than, you know, utilizing a biblical worldview as much

00:02:59.780 as I do, I think probably the thing that sets our show apart from a lot of others in this

00:03:03.580 industry is I've actually done the nuts and bolts of politics.

00:03:07.040 I've worked on campaigns from school board all the way to president.

00:03:10.280 So I kind of know the process and not just, you know, the, the ideological aspect of it.

00:03:16.840 Um, I've been married, my wife and I just celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary.

00:03:21.360 We have three kids. Anastasia is our oldest. She's 21.

00:03:26.860 And then I've got two more kids still in school. Zoe is 16.

00:03:32.780 She's about to be a junior in high school. She's still homeschooled.

00:03:35.280 And then my youngest, Noah, is 15. He just finished his freshman year.

00:03:39.460 And he goes to Des Moines Christian here in town.

00:03:42.120 I don't know what else you guys want to know, but that's it.

00:03:44.060 No, that's great. So I guess the only other question I have for you is,

00:03:46.960 has Anastasia considered changing her name since we're boycotting all things 0.56

00:03:50.520 Russian? I'm thinking of the movie. You know what I mean? Like, is she, 0.72

00:03:53.400 what is she going to do about that to be politically correct?

00:03:55.460 Well, she's actually, my wife's a Russian history buff. Okay.

00:03:59.540 And has,

00:04:00.620 was always fascinated with what happened with the Zarina Anastasia and all the

00:04:06.780 conspiracy theories and everything surrounding that. And, and so Anna,

00:04:12.200 that's actually that and the prophetess Anna from the Bible.

00:04:16.240 and then a member of an aunt of hers. So she gets that name. Actually, that's part of how she got

00:04:22.280 the name Anastasia, but no, um, we won't be, uh, changing her name because it might've been

00:04:28.980 Russian once. Yeah. Amen. Yeah. It's, it's so funny. I feel like, you know, I'm, I'm not a

00:04:35.660 fan of Putin, but I am a fan of nationalism. Um, I would, you know, I guess I'm a Christian

00:04:40.740 nationalist because I believe that America is a good nation. I'd like it to continue. I want to

00:04:45.420 have Christian worldview. I think that the Bible applies to politics and all these different things.

00:04:49.180 And I do happen to be a white cisgendered male. So I'm a Christian nationalist by, by default.

00:04:55.120 So I appreciate Putin in the sense that I have to be careful with my words here,

00:04:58.760 but in the sense that he is, it's, you know, he has that national mindset instead of the global

00:05:02.460 mentality, you know, the whole global forum and everything. But, but with the whole narrative

00:05:06.800 with Ukraine and Russia, I just keep thinking that it keeps, I keep seeing the scene in my head

00:05:12.020 from The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe where Diggory Kirk, you know, the professor that the 0.78

00:05:16.900 kids are staying with when dad's out in the war and mom's gone. And, and it's, it's after, you

00:05:22.520 know, Lucy has, has been now to Narnia twice. And the second time Edmund went with her and then they

00:05:27.180 come back and she's like, Oh, it's so great. Cause finally now you can vouch for me. You can give me

00:05:31.140 credibility because you've been to Narnia too. And so they, they run to, you know, Peter and Susan,

00:05:36.060 tell them Edmund, tell them, you know, and Edmund says, Oh, little girls, you know, they, they love 0.97

00:05:39.980 to pretend. And she's just distraught because it's just, it's not just mocking her, but it's

00:05:44.160 this deep betrayal from her brother and the older, you know, siblings, Peter and Susan,

00:05:49.140 they go to Diggory and they sit down, they're talking to Diggory. And he says,

00:05:51.660 what do they teach in typical C.S. Lewis fashion? What do they teach in school these days? Do they

00:05:56.140 not teach logic? You know, and, and they're like, well, yeah, they teach logic. And that's why we

00:05:59.920 don't believe in this magical world in a wardrobe. And he says, well, so, so Edmund, he's usually the

00:06:05.040 truthful one and they're like well this would be the first and lucy she's prone to lying well she's 0.95

00:06:10.500 clearly not mad you know so see his classic liar lunatic lord argument she's not mad she's not a 0.88

00:06:16.520 lunatic and and she's not prone to lie so the logical thing is to assume that she's telling 0.88

00:06:21.360 the truth and so i just think of our legacy media you know with covid and everything that's been

00:06:25.080 going on and i'm like yeah i i'm not a huge fan of putin but i it's probably at least if nothing

00:06:31.720 else at minimum it can't be this simple because all you guys ever do is lie what are your thoughts

00:06:35.800 just out of curiosity on the ukraine russia kind of ordeal i think that in general and i think

00:06:44.520 american and western christians but particularly american christians because we are the in in the

00:06:52.120 2000 year history of of the church um and and western civilization which was originally established

00:07:00.080 post-Constantine, and then became known originally as Christendom, and then Western civilization.

00:07:06.660 It was essentially created by the Catholic Church, and then post-Dark Ages was essentially

00:07:12.220 resurrected, pardon the pun, by the Protestant Reformation. This is the first time here in 0.79

00:07:18.880 America that we have a country that was directly inspired to some degree, we can debate to which

00:07:24.860 degree, but was at least to some degree directly inspired by the Christian worldview.

00:07:32.320 And so I think because of that, and in fact, my next book will actually be a children's

00:07:37.200 book.

00:07:37.400 We're going to start a children's book series on America's Christian heritage.

00:07:43.620 And we're going to start it from the very beginning.

00:07:45.740 The first children's book that we'll put out this fall will be about the pilgrims and the

00:07:49.540 true origin of Thanksgiving and who the Puritans really were and why they really came and those

00:07:54.160 sorts of things.

00:07:54.860 and and so i think because of that i think we are more tempted to fall into into a binary choice

00:08:03.380 fallacy than any previous generation of of believers for the prior to the establishment

00:08:10.520 of america the binary choice that most christians faced was was twofold a survive or not meaning i

00:08:20.500 was under some form of persecution so i would i would survive or not or be the the typical

00:08:27.280 christian temptation to deny my lord or not and that doesn't mean necessarily it can mean that

00:08:32.960 but it doesn't have to mean it's on some cosmic grand scale before a king it could just mean in

00:08:39.460 my decision to sin or not okay and and i think because we are birthed in a culture that even

00:08:47.420 though it is largely post-Christian and secularized and completely co-opted by what I call the

00:08:53.280 spirit of the age, which is really just my term for the physical manifestations of the

00:08:57.840 demonic influences at work in our culture today, you still see the names and titles

00:09:04.080 and relics of the value system we were founded on, right?

00:09:08.080 Like the Iowa Lutheran Hospital, where I was born 48 years ago, still exists here in Des

00:09:14.060 Moines, right?

00:09:15.100 Okay.

00:09:15.260 St. So-and-so's hospital or orphanage or children's clinic still exist in most cities

00:09:21.560 in America. Those relics are still there. I think that there's this notion that, therefore,

00:09:26.740 this is a Christian culture. And so, therefore, everything kind of falls into a binary choice of

00:09:33.180 good or evil or lesser of two evils or just evil. And I think that the true way to see the world

00:09:40.540 from a christian worldview is with the nuance it's the classic seminary question is god

00:09:46.900 transcendent or imminent yes is the answer he is both right okay and so is is has vladimir putin

00:09:55.200 committed atrocities yes has vladimir putin violated god-given or human rights yes so that

00:10:03.480 means ukraine is good then right well that's that's that's the way the world worked and i 0.72

00:10:09.460 you know hey man i'm a we're an america suck it kid from the 80s i get it okay there was us and

00:10:15.160 right in the soviets i i understand my you know not wanting to let go of that simple view of the 0.98

00:10:21.380 world but it's just not that simple ukraine is a kleptocracy it's one of the most corrupt regimes 0.76

00:10:28.080 in the world um real quick define kleptocracy it's just run by it's it's it's a money laundering 0.97

00:10:35.440 racket it's run it's it's the point of it the stealing is the point yeah i mean it seems like 0.90

00:10:40.320 ukraine has been the money purse for pretty much the entire west yep so if russia's a thugocracy

00:10:46.240 okay so we have the former head of the kgb he's the head oligarch oligarch and then beneath him 0.50

00:10:52.280 are essentially gangsters right like in our past lucky lucianos bugsy seagulls john gottys okay

00:10:59.540 those are the guys that's the bureaucracy now that's the new pullet bureau are the oligarchs

00:11:04.780 OK, they're a thugocracy. Ukraine is a kleptocracy. It's for money laundering, product laundering and influence peddling.

00:11:13.660 It's a front for larcenous activities. And so I guess if you really desire a rooting interest between a thugocracy and a kleptocracy. 0.67

00:11:23.220 okay i don't you know i i kind of i i feel terrible for the innocent ukrainian people

00:11:31.700 who don't get access to the money trail uh the money laundering scheme within their country

00:11:36.660 and were invaded and displaced from their homes so i think as christians we absolutely show them

00:11:42.080 as much mercy and charity as we possibly can but um i i don't see the desire to choose a side here

00:11:50.020 when both sides are bad.

00:11:52.380 You know, sometimes we just stand up and say,

00:11:55.080 here I stand, I can do no more.

00:11:56.460 May God have mercy on my soul.

00:11:58.340 Sometimes we just say no to two bad choices.

00:12:03.360 Sometimes we have to remember what it said

00:12:05.440 in the movie War Games when we were kids.

00:12:07.940 The only way to win the game is not to play.

00:12:11.440 And in this case, I think that our only interest, frankly,

00:12:14.420 is that um our money laundering interests here in the west primarily through the world economic

00:12:21.540 forum and george soros george soros is essentially the sugar daddy of ukraine and he's not a good guy

00:12:28.980 obviously uh i think that this is this isn't even like this using the spanish civil war the

00:12:34.540 republicans versus the nationalists to for every side for each side to prep for world war ii

00:12:39.620 We don't even have those kinds of stakes at stake here. This is really just, will the thugocracy be able to get access to Ukraine's assets and strategic bearing? Or will the kleptocracy continue to allow itself to be an influence-penning money laundering scheme for an entirely different set of corruptocrats? 0.62

00:13:01.580 that that's really all we're fighting for here there is absolutely nothing righteous here um

00:13:07.100 this is sadducees versus pharisees except it's the pharisees that actually aren't even studied

00:13:12.220 uh they're just pharisees in name only versus the sadducees that are largely that are denying

00:13:17.340 the resurrection so they're basically proto versions of secularists right there just didn't

00:13:22.600 try to reform the sanhedrin okay didn't try to pour new wine into old wine skins uh and i think

00:13:28.660 we try to do that a lot that was right yeah i think that's really helpful the pharisee sadducee

00:13:32.600 kind of thing so with that being said how do you feel about 40 billion dollars to ukraine

00:13:36.440 right it sounds like like you neither side is a good pick why why do we have mothers not being

00:13:42.860 able to give formula to their kids here in america and we're but what do you think about that

00:13:47.080 here's what i think is really happening and man i hope i am wrong okay okay there was a phrase used

00:13:54.520 when they voted for that 40 billion dollar swindle about 10 days ago and the phrase that

00:13:59.180 was used was lend lease and i don't know if members of your audience know what that is a

00:14:05.480 reference to okay but the lend lease was the name of the of the legislation that the congress passed

00:14:14.200 in the spring of 1941 when the u.s politically americans still did not want to get involved in

00:14:21.480 world war ii another european war we're still digging out of the great depression and revitalizing

00:14:28.060 our own society but it was recognized by the by the politicians that sooner or later we were going

00:14:35.500 to get roped into this and and and we were concerned that the british the british would lose

00:14:41.260 and they were the last line uh the last wall between the nazis and us we were concerned that

00:14:47.280 they would lose before we had political clearance from the voters to get in. And so Lend-Lease was

00:14:54.160 established as a method by which to get guns, money, resources, munitions, technology to the

00:15:02.480 British to try to sustain their war effort long enough for when the time came that the U.S. would

00:15:07.180 find its way in the war, which of course came later that year on December the 7th. I think

00:15:13.480 that's what their plan is here actually and i don't think there's any moral equivalency between

00:15:18.780 those circumstances and what's happening here okay if anything it's hitler versus hitler like i don't

00:15:25.480 know i mean klaus schwab versus vladimir putin i mean i mean do you like a bond villain kind of

00:15:30.620 hitler or do you like you know a more studious version who looks cool on a horse you know i mean

00:15:36.880 which which version of megalomaniac do you prefer um but i think that's what the the the elites in

00:15:43.380 our system are planning. The war is not going well for Ukraine. And our own media is actually

00:15:49.260 now beginning to admit this, which just goes to show you it's actually going even worse,

00:15:52.900 that they're actually admitting that it's not going well. The war is not going well for Ukraine.

00:15:57.080 Russia has, aside from taking Kiev and conquering the country, has accomplished most of its original

00:16:03.260 strategic initiatives that it claimed was the rationale, the Donbass and the other areas in 0.76

00:16:08.060 Crimea, it already controls those. And so I think we are just trying to prop up the Ukrainian regime

00:16:15.060 long enough so that later this year, like Labor Day or maybe shortly after, when it's pretty

00:16:21.420 obvious that this election is lost, you'll see Biden go ahead and put American troops in there

00:16:25.980 to try and push the Russians back. And he'll know it's incredibly, well, first of all, he won't know

00:16:32.080 because he has dementia. But the people who are actually running the country, they know it'll be

00:16:36.320 incredibly unpopular. But at that point, the election is lost. So what's the point?

00:16:39.800 And they'll be looking ahead to the next one with a plan of forcing Republicans who will be the new

00:16:44.720 majority in Congress to it'll be a chance to split their base. You have to make a choice.

00:16:48.960 You have to alienate your rally around the flag, traditional GOP base by not by not funding the

00:16:55.660 troops in the war. Or you'll have to alienate this new emerging and bigger base base of America

00:17:01.040 firsters by funding the war, especially with Trump getting ready for a likely comeback in 2024.

00:17:07.800 And I think that's I hope I'm wrong. I really want to be wrong because the only other option

00:17:14.580 here is they just thought it was easier to give Ukraine 40 billion and just to flush it down the

00:17:21.680 toilet. OK, that's the only other option. And I hope, you know, I and that's not a comforting

00:17:28.840 option it's certainly a better one than what i am proposing um but i think that is their plan

00:17:34.620 uh and i think they will do it unless there is the kind even more pushback than what we saw

00:17:42.180 in the summer of 2014 when they tried to get us embroiled in the syrian civil war you know with

00:17:47.080 john mccain's uh islamic freedom fighters that don't actually actually exist uh because islam 0.87

00:17:52.760 doesn't even believe in freedom so um i think that's the end game here i hope i'm wrong i hope 0.76

00:17:58.600 I'm wrong. Yeah, no, that's helpful. Uh, going back to what you said earlier about the Pharisees

00:18:02.780 and the Sadducees, I think of, you know, sadly, I think, you know, there's a lot of people within

00:18:06.820 my tribe. So I'm, I'm within, you know, the reformed tradition, reformed soteriology. So

00:18:11.780 I'm, I'm reformed Baptist 1689 confessional. And, um, I, you know, I've been disappointed

00:18:17.060 over the last two years as we've had, you know, civil tyranny and we've had all these different

00:18:21.900 things, you know, plaguing the American people and really across the globe. Um, I, I, I hoped

00:18:27.800 that my tribe, due to the Protestant resistance theory, guys like John Knox and the Scottish

00:18:34.200 Reformers, resistance to tyranny is obedience to God, these kinds of glorious sayings. I thought

00:18:41.180 that we would have the theological framework to really lead the charge in terms of civil

00:18:46.780 disobedience and obedience to Christ. And to my surprise, it's a bunch of Calvary Chapel guys.

00:18:55.940 and i'm grateful for calvary chapel i don't mean that in a negative way but it's not my tribe you

00:19:01.040 know they're more arminian they're less reformed and it's you know jack hibbs and it's all these

00:19:04.680 you know it's it's my my point is it's like there's this this big game of musical chairs

00:19:09.880 right now and everything because every institution has discredited itself whether it be the media

00:19:13.760 whether it be pharmacies whether it be you know government academia all these and sadly the

00:19:18.980 evangelical church is not uh exempt from this this providential move of god where every major

00:19:25.360 institution it's like you know you're seeing the guy pulling the levers behind the curtain

00:19:29.360 and so people are moving so i've got all of a sudden you know we we were in california we i

00:19:33.660 left with it brought about 20 people with me um at the end of 2020 to plant a new church here in

00:19:39.200 texas where i was born and raised and by god's grace we've gone from 20 people to 120 in just

00:19:44.020 a year and a half but a lot of the people in our church are not i'm used to pastoring calvinist

00:19:50.500 to just say it frankly and i've got a lot of people who are they're like i don't know about

00:19:54.600 that Calvinism thing. I don't, I don't know if I like that. Uh, but what I like about your church

00:19:58.280 is that, uh, you'll go and, um, and you'll preach out front of the, uh, the courthouse when there's

00:20:03.940 some kind of, you know, event happening and you guys don't wear masks and you guys don't shut

00:20:08.920 down and you guys, you know what I mean? And, and so it's like, there's these new fault lines,

00:20:13.420 like Bodhi Wackham wrote his book fault lines. And so it's like, all of a sudden it's, um,

00:20:17.060 there's a shift in these things. And so I say all that back to the Pharisees and the Sadducees to

00:20:21.360 say tim keller all right so that was a long lead up to say so tim keller is reformed in his

00:20:25.740 soteriology and he's somebody that i really enjoyed once upon a time um but his third way

00:20:31.440 ism i don't know how familiar you are with tim keller but it's kind of it's always like well

00:20:34.660 there's this and there's that and there's jesus you know there's this and there's that and then

00:20:38.620 there's jesus and it's always his third way and he always did that with politics you know it's

00:20:42.840 well there's conservatives and there's liberals you know republicans and democrats and then there's

00:20:47.240 jesus the impression though that i think a lot of people got including myself because i bought into

00:20:52.760 this for a time is um pharisees and sadducees you know so i'm taking your analogy but i'm applying

00:20:57.560 it now to to the two parties in our system the impression that we got was okay republicanism

00:21:03.680 is not that the republican party and its policies are not synonymous with the bible no christian

00:21:08.460 would say that they are but but the impression that people come away with is that their uh

00:21:13.300 Democrats in Republican policies are equally distant from the Bible. And so I think there's

00:21:19.220 a lot of young voters and a lot of young Christians that are all of a sudden, it's like the veil has

00:21:25.200 been lifted. And that lie, that third wayism kind of thing has been really debunked in their minds,

00:21:30.880 and they're coming out with a vengeance. And I would be one of them and saying, okay, there is

00:21:34.960 a culture war, and we do need to fight. And the Bible calls us to fight, to fight in a godly

00:21:39.680 manner but to to fight these kinds of things and so all that what would you say to somebody because

00:21:44.260 you talk about the republican party and the problems that they have and sure there are rhinos

00:21:48.020 and all these different things but what would you say to someone who says man well steve it sounds

00:21:52.620 like there's a lot of problems in the republican party um so i feel like it's a toss-up you could

00:21:57.120 go either way um i think much of what you're describing i would just i would describe as a

00:22:05.740 false objection okay and that most of the time in my experience and i've spent as much time

00:22:14.540 as as almost anybody my age i i certainly have not been at this as long as the original religious

00:22:23.580 right guys or some of the more the more um famous ones that are more in my age group or or or a

00:22:32.580 little younger boomer who in many cases frankly i'm not fans of because they just allow themselves

00:22:37.260 to become to be reduced to mascots for the republican party as opposed to um you know

00:22:43.900 someone who represents god's people within that party because i do think there's a difference

00:22:51.120 i'll give you an example of what i mean so i don't just leave the audience hanging with that

00:22:54.940 they used to say about dr richard land who used to run the f who was the original head of the

00:23:00.920 ethics and religious liberty commission at the southern baptist convention uh before what's his

00:23:06.760 face whose name i can't remember basically ruined it thank you yeah they used to say about they used

00:23:11.980 to say about richard land back in the 80s he used to go to washington and tell them what we at the

00:23:16.380 southern baptist convention demanded republicans do but now that nowadays he comes back to washington

00:23:22.400 and tells the southern baptist convention what will be permitted to have that's that's what i'm

00:23:27.280 talking about, okay? Are you a mascot for a political party? Can you be a Daniel? Can you

00:23:34.280 work within the confines of a political party, but the salt doesn't lose its flavor? And when

00:23:38.700 they ask you to do that or say that or defend that, which God says is clearly wrong, your answer

00:23:44.200 is, that's going to be a no for me, dog, okay? When you guys are right, I'll go to the mattresses

00:23:49.000 for you. When you're wrong, that's my tap out, okay? Got a pretty simple standard. When you

00:23:55.020 guys are on the side of righteousness i'm right there with you when you're not i'm not i think

00:23:59.720 i think a lot of what there's two things that work with the with the pastors and the church

00:24:05.400 leadership i think and it from that are gen x my generation and then older millennials that are now

00:24:11.240 beginning to take over the pulpits and one is i think a sincere concern they don't want to be the

00:24:17.500 next horse for the republican party if i can just put it very bluntly okay they don't want to be the

00:24:21.880 next ralph reeds they don't want to be the next richard jeffress they are robert jefferson they

00:24:27.700 don't want to be those guys and and i don't want them to be either by the way i don't okay and i'm

00:24:32.740 not i'm not buddies with any of those kinds of guys okay when i mobilize evangelicals it's not

00:24:38.720 to sell out a conference or to build my donor base it was to actually win elections to like move

00:24:45.380 numbers on the ground that's why i kept getting i kept being being asked to join iowa caucus

00:24:50.960 campaigns during presidential elections because me and the people i work with can move numbers on

00:24:56.100 the ground not just put out press releases sell out a banquet and line our pockets we're actually

00:25:01.700 trying to win okay and so i i totally get not wanting to be the next generation of republican 0.96

00:25:08.360 prostitutes because the party's not worth it anyway at least esau got a got a got a bowl of 0.96

00:25:13.760 stew you want to get that from republican leader and i tell my audience all the time you probably 0.99

00:25:18.560 heard me say this the only political party to hate you more than the democrats are the republicans

00:25:21.920 because the democrats it's just straight up honest hatred of what you believe you can deal

00:25:28.040 with that otherwise you haven't been a christian for more than two minutes okay it's it's the jesus

00:25:33.940 doesn't say hey look out for those wolves with their shiny shiny teeth and sharp claws we know

00:25:38.460 what to do with them okay it's the guy it's the wolf in sheep's clothing that's the issue i mean

00:25:42.960 you're totally fine taking on nancy pelosi with a gun at your face it's mitch mcconnell

00:25:47.000 shaking you in the back that's what you can't defend yourself against because the guys that

00:25:51.500 most people that become democrats run for office to do things most people become republicans run

00:25:56.680 for office to be somebody and so you and i our people come along and say hey we need you to do

00:26:04.200 we need you to do blank blank blank blank policies well i'm just here to work my side of k street bro

00:26:09.240 i'm not here for you you know and vote for me because if you know then the communists will win 0.94

00:26:13.960 They hate your guts. So, I'm not here to pump them up or elevate them in any way, shape, or form, okay? That all being said, though, that's a very small group of pastors that I think are just, will directly preach the gospel and right and wrong from the pulpit, but will just not directly politically or culturally engage out of fear of getting co-opted from a political party.

00:26:39.200 Right. I don't blame them for that at all. And frankly, if they if they just do that first thing of boldly proclaiming the truths of God's word, the rest of pastors weren't politically involved in the 40s, dude, or the 50s or the or the or the or the 20s or the 1890s.

00:26:57.860 OK, they just did their damn job. And, you know, and then the saints left the church and were like, I got my marching orders. Now I do my job. 0.93

00:27:05.840 okay well and i to interject i would say i think i personally think just a little bit of pushback

00:27:11.620 here that's part of why we're in the boat that we're in i i personally think that there's a lot

00:27:16.300 of christians who are under the impression that the bible it's it's family in the church home of

00:27:20.940 the church home of the church and so i have i have this theology i have these this set of principles

00:27:24.740 that applies to my marriage and my parenting right another marriage conference another parenting

00:27:28.820 conference another marriage and it applies to church planting right the church planting movement

00:27:33.080 and overseas missions and it's like the boomers for instance you know i i you know i i want to

00:27:37.960 it's hard for me i'm an older millennial and so it's hard for me because i want to i want to keep 0.60

00:27:42.260 to the fifth commandment honor thy father and mother and i don't want to be i don't want to

00:27:45.360 be like the progressives that's how hypocritical would it be that's that's everything that they're

00:27:49.320 doing is dismantling the work of our fathers our you know our proverbial fathers and saying

00:27:54.240 everything they did was wrong and everything they did is bad that said so i want to honor

00:27:57.960 boomers as much as i can that said though i think that you know boomers sought to fulfill

00:28:02.560 global missions and uh and their kids grew up and denied the faith and would apostate

00:28:07.680 they they they beat communism abroad only to allow it to be imported to all their

00:28:12.580 institutions here so so anyways i'm just saying that i think let me finish my go ahead go ahead

00:28:17.780 my point was because they they fulfilled their primary mission of preaching the gospel

00:28:23.300 the issues of morality were not politicized in their era it was not considered the idea

00:28:32.500 that the only people who thought that it was bad to kill your child before it was born

00:28:40.060 would belong to one particular party. And then the people in the other party would not only think

00:28:45.340 it's not bad, but shout their abortions, that would have blown their frigging minds. 0.97

00:28:51.360 Those were moral absolutes. They were universal. And that's what kept the two political parties 0.94

00:28:57.960 largely in this left of center right of center sort of narrow overton window right okay what's

00:29:05.880 happened is that window has been smashed by the stained glass window smashers the iconoclasts

00:29:10.800 and so and so what's happened is the church wants to remain in the same somewhat politically

00:29:16.500 neutral position it was in so that it doesn't become co-opted the problem is though that what

00:29:23.240 it thinks is the democratic party isn't a party it's a cult right progressivism isn't a political

00:29:28.520 ideology it's a rival religion it's a religion yeah and in no other culture would the church

00:29:34.700 would the church plant itself and then never directly confront the enemy the enemy religion

00:29:41.700 to the gospel i mean there are you know the stories of of of saint boniface with the norsemen 0.70

00:29:48.020 cutting down the odin tree right in their faces right because he was disgusted with their pagan

00:29:52.700 worship okay that that the the church understood we have to do if the only way out is through we 0.94

00:29:59.540 have to directly confront the demonic false religions or the pagan transcendent false

00:30:06.960 religions we have to directly confront them in contrast with the gospel a lot of american pastors

00:30:13.300 want to pretend as if they don't have to do that and to and to do that would meet would make them

00:30:19.900 republicans right and so that's their excuse that's their false objection to not doing their

00:30:26.020 job that's the point i make yeah and it's their fig leaf and so what happens is they end up

00:30:33.800 importing a lot of that belief system into their churches and i i gave i had a i had i've had this

00:30:39.440 conversation with several pastors over the last few years if you let's let's remove america from

00:30:44.980 equation okay if you went to some third world country as a missionary and and when you arrived

00:30:56.420 there was a there was a a pagan religion that had dominated that community that village for

00:31:04.020 for a generation so that the water supply you're tapping into all right the the human resource

00:31:11.800 supply you're tapping into, whether they go and perform the rituals of that cult or not,

00:31:17.220 they're all infected with it. They're all influenced by it. It's been the leading

00:31:20.600 depositor of influence, the leading hub of influence in that village years before you

00:31:26.340 arrived. If you went there and just, hey, I'm going to build my tent, we're going to do some

00:31:30.280 revival, I'm going to preach the open air, open the Bible, preach the word. And I just preached

00:31:34.420 the Bible as a standalone construct, and I never directly confronted the baggage that the people

00:31:42.460 I'm preaching to are bringing into my ministry, would that be an effective methodology of

00:31:50.380 evangelism? No. No. In fact, what is most of the New Testament? When we get done with the Gospels,

00:31:56.820 The rest of it are, frankly, letters, epistles written by Paul, John, Peter, James, Jude, addressing the cultural rot gut that was influencing the communities. 0.77

00:32:10.640 They were just called Colossae, Corinth, Philippi, that they were specifically who are the who are the Judaizers? 0.52

00:32:20.420 Who who was who was the woman coming from the pagan temple?

00:32:23.800 Who's the guy in the front row with his arm around his mom that Paul's talking about?

00:32:27.380 These are specific people, specific movements.

00:32:32.160 They're not generalities.

00:32:33.160 They're not constructs.

00:32:34.760 They are directly addressing. 0.99

00:32:36.760 And Paul looks at one of them and says, you're a son of the devil. 0.99

00:32:39.500 Right. 0.67

00:32:40.400 They are directly confronting that which is leading the people astray.

00:32:45.820 They didn't want to kill Paul in Ephesus because he believed in the third way.

00:32:50.300 Right.

00:32:51.100 That's right.

00:32:51.640 Make tent for nine hours a day.

00:32:53.780 And then at night, preach the gospel.

00:32:55.000 In Ephesus, they literally even said, we're in danger of losing our livelihood.

00:33:00.060 It's actually affecting the religion to the point where it's affecting the economy, our economy.

00:33:06.200 Yeah, it was a threat.

00:33:07.320 Christ was a threat.

00:33:09.200 And so I honor the instinct of not wanting to be the next generation of pastors completely used, abused, and ridden hard and put away wet by the Republican Party.

00:33:19.620 I'm all in on that.

00:33:20.620 Okay.

00:33:21.640 But but is that your real concern or is it a false objection excuse for you not to confront the spirit of the age?

00:33:29.940 And it's your fault, frankly, that it's that the spirit of the age is largely embodied in a political party because you didn't confront this for a generation when it was a broader cultural issue. 0.91

00:33:40.140 Back in 1998, Bill Clinton was signing the Defense of Marriage Act in the law and almost every damn Democrat voted for it.

00:33:45.680 OK, that was when you had a chance to stay out of politics directly and directly engage what was going on in the culture and restore moral universal absolutism.

00:33:57.380 You chose not to do that. You chose to punt. You chose to go to a Rick Warren seminar on church growth.

00:34:04.040 right okay you chose that and so now now what's happened is it's weaponized it's not the fringes

00:34:11.400 of san francisco or the bowels of a college campus it is weaponized in the full form of

00:34:17.740 a political party and there's only two of them that matter in america and so we've got one of

00:34:21.660 them given over to demon to demonics basically and that happened because the church chose a

00:34:26.660 different path coming in the 90s and early 2000s than directly confronting this stuff

00:34:31.800 And to the point that it would be politically obscene for any mainstream Democrat outside of a place like San Francisco to embody this.

00:34:40.180 Now, now they've become governor of Kansas saying this stuff.

00:34:43.700 That's right.

00:34:44.380 And that's because the church abdicated its responsibility to confront it when it was largely a quirky, abnormal, fringe moral movement.

00:34:54.840 Right.

00:34:55.080 And now it is mainstream and weaponized, not just even in the universities, but all of the government schools down there.

00:35:00.840 Now we had drag queen story time hour at every public library that matters in America.

00:35:05.540 And so now you have no choice. You cannot confront the baggage your people come to your congregation with, the lost come to you with. 0.99

00:35:15.920 You cannot confront it without confronting what is said in left wing media and what is said by left wing politicians, because they are its acolytes.

00:35:25.620 they are they are the shamans of the of of that the church confronted in yesteryear

00:35:32.320 they are the high priestesses that the church confronted in yesteryear right they're they're 1.00

00:35:38.760 the idea that we're going to put naked men in locker rooms to rape our daughters and nieces 0.97

00:35:45.020 and wives and sisters that originated that's a public policy from a political party that is not 0.94

00:35:53.360 just that's not some esoteric work of a of you know of a naval went to the naval ponderer

00:36:00.800 with his own theological you know ruminations that no one pays attention to they're freaking

00:36:06.040 doing that they're doing it and they're doing it because you didn't you didn't damn the river at

00:36:11.240 its source so now that now the water's flowing downstream now and it's got momentum and the and

00:36:18.000 now is fully weaponized within a modern american political party the way it was and that's just

00:36:24.540 the democrats in another era we would have called them caligula in another era we would have called

00:36:29.660 them nero or domitian that's what we would have called them in another era that they're just

00:36:34.160 called democrats right yeah it's you know everything you're saying is really good it's

00:36:37.520 it's certainly a religion i like um one theologian the hardest boss he actually is the guy who trained

00:36:42.120 cornelius van till van till was big on presuppositional apologetics and from his thought

00:36:47.960 that's where we got greg bonson uh which i would agree with a lot of greg bonson and his theonomic

00:36:52.860 fault uh thought so i would consider myself to be a general equity theonomist and uh wanting to

00:36:57.860 apply divine law in the realm of of the you know the civil government and so all those kinds of

00:37:03.120 things but all the way back to voss one of the things he said and you might end up using this

00:37:06.260 on on one of your shows it's so easy with abortion to say all right molek this is religion this is a

00:37:11.340 false god. It's not science. It's secularism is a religion. And this is just one of the sacraments.

00:37:17.320 But when you think of transgenderism, one of the things that Voss said about the Asherah poles, 0.82

00:37:21.340 so you think of, you know, Molech, Baal, Baal, you know, and then you think of like Asherah, 0.50

00:37:26.320 the Asherah poles were in stark contrast by design to a fruitful tree. A tree has branches,

00:37:32.900 it has limbs, it bears fruit, it produces something. The Asherah pole, it makes me think 0.97

00:37:37.560 of isengard you know the two towers you know and tear down the trees you know and so it's stripped

00:37:42.520 of all of its fruitfulness all of its life it's it's no longer verdant it's turned into a pole 0.90

00:37:47.500 and so when you think of transgenderism and stripping away fruitfulness and and reproductive 0.78

00:37:52.680 organs and those kinds so more like you know with abortion and then asherah with transgenderism and

00:37:57.120 so the sacraments you know all you know and the high priestesses and then everything has an 0.74

00:38:01.620 orthodoxy right the idea of you know cancel culture well i i do want to cancel i want to

00:38:06.480 cancel wickedness i i'm happy to cancel wickedness i think that that anytime you legislate neutrality

00:38:11.780 is a myth and i think we bought that as a as as evangelicals we we bought into that neutrality

00:38:16.920 was actually something that was possible and oh you know government is neutral cultural believe

00:38:21.220 we had cultural hegemony that's why explain that because we were we bought into that we bought into

00:38:27.200 that faustian bargain because we figured it always worked to our favor because we're the majority

00:38:31.600 We're the silent majority. We're the hegemony. We're the belief system that is the mainstream default in America. And so you cut deals like that when, you know, there's the King David who, when he unites the tribes of Israel, disrobes, and when his first wife questions him on it, he says, I'll become even more undignified than this to honor the Lord for what he has done through me.

00:38:58.020 And then there's the King David that after he's been a king for a while and he thinks he's got it going on.

00:39:02.400 Then he decides in the springtime when kings went off to war, David stays behind.

00:39:06.600 When you think you're when you think you are in charge.

00:39:11.300 And you and therefore you can only lose.

00:39:13.500 You're at a point of diminishing returns.

00:39:15.460 You make those kinds of compromises. 0.98

00:39:17.400 The reason why the early church never made those kinds of compromises, the reason why Christians in China, 0.86

00:39:22.120 And there's far better odds today that if you're born in Beijing, China, you will eventually get converted to Christianity than if you're born in Boston, Massachusetts, or any major urban population center in the U.S.

00:39:33.080 Actually, we look at the numbers, but they're not making those kinds of calculations in the Christian church in China.

00:39:38.460 Why? Because they're underground and aren't permitted any above ground real influence whatsoever to peddle or to trade off. 0.76

00:39:46.740 They aren't permitted political trade-offs.

00:39:49.020 They're just trying to survive and exist the way most of Christianity did for its first

00:39:52.980 1,500 years, the founding of this country.

00:39:55.980 It's because of the amount of comfort we have and social station we have that we believe

00:40:00.500 in these myths.

00:40:01.840 We believe we can make these compromises because the direct confrontation is a price right

00:40:07.440 now.

00:40:07.900 We don't want to pay because it would cost us too much of our own comfort.

00:40:11.400 Right.

00:40:11.720 I completely agree.

00:40:12.740 And so now it's like people are waking up.

00:40:14.340 Praise God for that.

00:40:15.020 in his providence there's been many blessings from the tyranny and all the bad things that

00:40:18.320 have happened the sad thing though is i i've noticed that you know there's a trend with you

00:40:22.560 know a lot of a lot of people are waking up and they want the principles of christ they want the

00:40:26.040 fruit but they don't like trees right it's like i like apples but i don't like orchards you know

00:40:30.660 right and so there's a lot of people who are waking up and they want the principles of christ

00:40:34.200 but not the person of christ and and so it's like we've done we've created that idea with

00:40:39.280 our political activism this is why i wanted to mention the first group who has concerns because

00:40:44.680 i i share them okay this idea that you can christianize a society but from the outside in

00:40:53.420 okay that there are certain um there are there are certain external factors that we can humanly

00:41:04.340 create that will anesthetize people from their sinful natures okay um and we look at the thing

00:41:12.420 Like, for example, we look at the 50s as an idyllic time, an idyllic time of innocence.

00:41:18.060 And for the most part, it largely was.

00:41:20.100 But lying underneath the surface was the birth of Alfred Kinsey.

00:41:24.060 That was his decade.

00:41:25.720 That was Hugh Hefner's decade.

00:41:28.440 Right.

00:41:28.900 And so underneath our comfort and the veneer of wholesomeness, morally therapeutic pietism, as it's sometimes referred to as.

00:41:42.420 germinating just underneath the surface of that because we're very comfortable

00:41:46.560 um was the next layer of evil which we simply were completely unprepared for and within a

00:41:56.580 generation launched the sexual revolution and had essentially unmoored the the american family

00:42:03.180 before we even got to jimmy carter and the reagan revolution and everything else and so

00:42:08.740 that's where we that is where we have to be careful and and and just my i have fears about

00:42:14.940 that as a believer and that's one of the reasons why i am so adamant there's two reasons why i'm

00:42:20.540 adamant about using leading with the biblical worldview on my show one uh is because i think

00:42:27.280 it's the ultimate truth of the universe and i don't think there's any hope whatsoever for the

00:42:34.800 human condition without the word of god that's number one okay the other reason is though and

00:42:40.980 it's a very minor reason that's like 90 of why i do it the other 10 of why i do it though is a

00:42:46.380 check on myself to make sure i don't just create a more principled version of the religious fallacy

00:42:55.140 that failed in the previous generation right amen so i'm going to preach the same morally

00:42:59.380 therapeutic pietism i'm just not going to take kickbacks from the republican party to do it

00:43:03.640 Right. I'm just not going to endorse every rhino for a seat at the table to do it. I'm going to be very, I'll be more principally, more personally principled, but I'll be, I'll present the exact same fallacy.

00:43:16.440 And so I check on my own spirit and another reminder that ultimately Jesus didn't die for a theology. I think theology is extremely important.

00:43:26.080 you can probably tell given the fact that used a lot of real inside baseball theological names

00:43:32.200 and terms in this conversation so far and for the most part i've been able to keep up yeah okay

00:43:36.580 yeah and you've used a lot of political terms and names and for the most part i have not been

00:43:41.040 able to keep up but i sit here and i nod my head i don't know who that is or what that means but

00:43:46.340 i'm going yeah i recognize jimmy carter i know reagan but i i love theology yeah but jesus

00:43:53.900 didn't die for a theology. Jesus died for people. And we have to remember, ultimately, that it is

00:44:01.640 not by a perfect systematic theology or cultural hermeneutic that God's people will be known. But

00:44:09.740 as you just used the term, by their fruit, you will know them. And you look at those early

00:44:14.320 disciples, first disciples, you mentioned there's kind of this eclectic movement forming right now,

00:44:19.200 right right that was a pretty eclectic group fishermen tax tax collector okay um i mean that's

00:44:27.920 a pretty eclectic group that that was originally collected zealot in there you know and i think of

00:44:34.500 like i think of what the lord's doing now it's like yeah there's a couple guys it's like okay

00:44:37.720 let's i want to abolish abortion but let's not bomb the clinic you know like so you gotta hold

00:44:43.160 a couple guys back and that's kind of you know you've got this a similar group yeah and i think

00:44:48.460 that that is that we that it's not about saving america it's about saving americans

00:44:57.960 right and this isn't a country with a perfect history right i'm still very proud and that to

00:45:06.460 be an american thankful to god let me created me to be one because it's still the greatest place

00:45:12.040 to ever live in the history of humanity but did i did i say it was the perfect place to live

00:45:17.020 No. Did I say it was it was it was uniquely and specifically and perpetually righteous?

00:45:25.260 No. So we're here to save Americans. And and when there are more states than sinners around here, that's what makes for an exceptional country.

00:45:35.760 and i and i think we just need to be careful that the reason why we can't get we can't overcome the

00:45:43.780 rhinos in the republican party isn't because they're just this much smarter at this than we

00:45:50.220 are i wish that were true i could live with that actually yeah well we'd have we'd have less moral

00:45:56.160 responsibility if they actually just beat us outright we could stand before jesus and say

00:46:00.520 we tried and they would just that's exactly right that's and that's and you just quantified why i

00:46:05.340 could live with it is what you just said okay it's it's what's more what's painful to me is

00:46:10.980 the opposite is true it's that the the number one news outlet for our people and more christians

00:46:17.560 know more about what is said on fox news every day than what's in their bibles right that's the

00:46:23.040 same fox news i played two clips from fox news on my show today one of them can the lenski to

00:46:27.780 patent for goodness sakes and the other citing a reuters fact check that that the election was

00:46:34.060 stolen okay um now that doesn't mean that the election was stolen it was but that is that

00:46:39.980 doesn't mean that it's just the reuters should be not be the evidence for anything you cite if you

00:46:45.080 spend five seconds ever reading less if you're fox news yes that's a little bit like showing up

00:46:50.940 at the council of jerusalem in the first century and saying guys i've got this uh you know i've got

00:46:56.220 this uh rome just completely debunked this whole thing is misinformation okay yeah all right they're

00:47:02.900 the news source for the regime for goodness sakes or one of them okay and and and that's what our

00:47:08.160 people are watching all day long well now i get why all these rhino pukes when all these primaries

00:47:13.420 if that's our people are low information too yeah okay john porten john porten must be a great

00:47:20.140 senator he must be a real rock-ripped conservative because he's a senator from texas it's a complete

00:47:25.220 hack a complete hack but hey he was on fox news he's on hannity so he's great he must be good

00:47:31.500 Yeah. It must be good. And that's the stuff that has me pulling what hair I have left out.

00:47:37.360 Right. Well, and then the other half, right? So half is listening. You're right. So half listening

00:47:40.680 to Fox News and a low understanding of what's really going on. And so, yeah, so they're squishy

00:47:45.920 because they're listening to squishy leaders. And so they're squishy followers. The other half,

00:47:50.400 though, is following, especially back to the reform camp, kind of my tribe and my experience.

00:47:55.520 It's like, okay, so I was a part of Acts 29. I don't know if you're familiar with that,

00:47:59.080 but i was a pastor in act 29 i left when eric mason he was on the board at the time for acts 29

00:48:04.360 internationally and very close friend of matt chandler who's the president of act 29 he came

00:48:09.260 out with his book woke church and i pulled our church out of act 29 i said no no way wouldn't

00:48:15.040 like no i'm not going to preach the gospel of jesus christ and tell people if they're white

00:48:19.620 to hate themselves i'm not doing that i'm white my kids are white like i you know i'm just not

00:48:25.120 this this whole systematic racist you know thing i'm not doing it we wouldn't tell any group to

00:48:30.260 hate themselves yeah except for white people yeah yeah we would but we wouldn't that's i think that's

00:48:36.680 where we have that's where we have to come off the top rope here and take the conversation higher 0.94

00:48:40.960 it's not that it's wrong to tell a particular group of people to tell white people to hate

00:48:47.860 themselves it is wrong to first of all we are created individually and uniquely in the image

00:48:54.020 of God. Individually, he has counted all of the hairs on our head. We are individually given

00:48:59.360 gifts. Individually, we can boldly approach the throne of grace without an intermediator, okay?

00:49:06.400 It's about my, when I stand before God at my judgment seat, there will be no witnesses. This

00:49:12.760 won't be a trial. I won't have a committee to appeal to. It will be one-on-one, me against my

00:49:17.760 creator are my sins blood bought and forgiven by christ through the sack his atoning sacrifice

00:49:24.720 or not yes pass through if not pass down okay that's it there won't be opening closing arguments

00:49:31.780 we won't have a we won't subpoena anybody we won't have any any intermediaries whatsoever

00:49:36.600 it's a one-on-one transaction so it's it's antithetical to biblical christianity to tell

00:49:42.600 any group to hate themselves right on a group entity basis right and what happens when you do

00:49:47.080 that when you start having a collective moral responsibility you ultimately end up with the

00:49:50.520 underlining tone which is no moral responsibility and criminals become victims and victims become

00:49:55.520 criminals and so that's that's what it ultimately amounts to is that nobody's actually responsible

00:50:00.480 for their own choices nobody so instead of standing before the god of heaven who will lay

00:50:04.960 every thought bare and then i have to give an account and my only defense is to point to jesus

00:50:09.800 and say no i am i am a sinner but he paid for it it's already been paid in full instead of this

00:50:14.400 individual basis it's you know it's uh well you're guilty for for everything within your people group

00:50:19.380 and you get you know you get grouped into these different identities based off of these

00:50:23.860 characteristics and race just happens to be a popular and people have done this in societies

00:50:27.620 for for centuries and centuries and centuries it's just in america because of our unique history

00:50:32.100 with the african slave trade that race works that you can hustle race better than you know then

00:50:37.540 like like you know marx would have been furious he would have been like no this is not what i meant

00:50:42.000 I meant classes class, you know, like my brother. So me and him are very different. My brother is

00:50:47.040 a Marxist and he, he hates the identity politics, all about race, the transgenderism stuff, all this

00:50:52.540 he's, he's furious. So he sees the arc of human history. Exactly. So he's furious about it,

00:50:58.200 but he recognizes he's like, yeah, but it wouldn't work in America. And I was like, why,

00:51:01.660 why would it not work brother? And why would, why would Mark's system of classes not work?

00:51:06.380 And he'll even admit, you know, he'll say, you know, to some extent he'll say, well,

00:51:09.520 part of the reason it wouldn't work is because the middle class, even though somebody else is

00:51:13.560 making 200 times the amount, the middle class still makes enough to have two cars, a nice

00:51:17.960 house, vacations in the summer, and they're not upset enough or oppressed enough to revolt.

00:51:25.600 The West came in America mainly and then exported it to the rest of the West. But the West came up

00:51:31.980 with two devices that Marx never foresaw because in a purely naturalistic sense, his view of the

00:51:39.700 world was largely correct. If you remove Christ and redemption from the equation and just look

00:51:46.220 at it in the natural sense, whether we call it mercantilism, feudalism, colonialism, whatever 1.00

00:51:52.220 the ism of the era was, his view is largely correct. It just lacks the dynamism that is

00:51:58.080 produced by the transformation of a relate of a one-on-one relationship with jesus christ

00:52:02.540 all right but but we came up with two social devices he did not foresee okay a middle class

00:52:08.920 right and collective bargain he didn't foresee those two things oh you mean you mean the that

00:52:14.120 the the workers can now combine together to collectively to leverage their their uh skills

00:52:20.540 and relationships as a hedge against robber baronism right didn't foresee those two things

00:52:26.120 which is why we never flirted with those things here which to your brother it's a little bit like

00:52:32.580 if if if if we if we if someone came forth and said i found jesus's remains

00:52:39.080 the doom wasn't empty i found the remains we carbon dated it the dna all checks out

00:52:45.500 the dude actually died now for some of us we might view that as a real demonic scheme it wouldn't

00:52:53.800 really test our faith at the core. But for a lot of people, frankly, it kind of would, wouldn't it?

00:52:59.540 Sure. Okay. Probably not for the elect, but it would for pretty much everybody else,

00:53:04.120 particularly those in the nominal camp. But likewise, isn't that what your brother's admitting?

00:53:08.900 Your brother wants to belong. And see, this is how I love how we can make arguments.

00:53:13.340 Your brother is admitting to you that he wants to devote his life to a philosophy

00:53:18.000 that has shown in certain circumstances, it can't possibly work.

00:53:23.800 Who would do that? Who would say, I want to devote my life to a philosophy that the most successful nation on earth, I admit, the most successful nation on earth has demonstrated actually does not work.

00:53:35.500 It's never been, it's never been truly tried though, Steve.

00:53:40.400 Yeah, but go ahead.

00:53:41.420 Go ahead.

00:53:41.720 Yeah.

00:53:42.040 Yeah.

00:53:42.780 Yeah.

00:53:43.240 But I just, back to the original point, I think it is important for us.

00:53:49.160 I don't think it's a choice between standing for what's right in the culture and leading with Jesus.

00:53:56.440 We stand for what's right in the culture because we lead with Jesus.

00:54:00.220 because to not directly address evil if you found out tomorrow that my next door neighbors over here

00:54:09.100 were a child sacrificing cult and i've lived next door to him for 15 years

00:54:14.320 and i do this show with hundreds of thousands of downloads every day

00:54:19.860 and i'm open about my faith and i speak at churches all over the country

00:54:23.820 but i never bothered to question dude what's with all the strange kids coming in and out of

00:54:29.940 the house throughout all hours of the night and you know what's with the chanting you know what

00:54:35.060 i'm saying and the screams ah not my thing the third way here is for me to i'm just going to go

00:54:41.420 on my show and i'm just going to stick to presenting the gospel but i'm going to absolutely

00:54:45.000 pay no attention to the evil around me whatsoever would you look at me as a good christian as good

00:54:49.600 steward of my faith if that were if that story were to come out no no that's essentially what

00:54:55.440 is being argued for by a lot of american pastors so i don't believe in the false choice between

00:55:01.420 call it third wayism you can call it whatever you want i just call it fig leaf gutlessness 0.98

00:55:06.200 there's a false choice between that and then just becoming a whore for the gop right there's a wide 0.96

00:55:13.400 chasm there between those two between turning up people around us and then just becoming essentially 0.99

00:55:19.280 a street hooker for a political party that hates me right there's i gotta think everyone watching

00:55:24.860 right now, and everyone on the comments and everything else, we got to believe that somewhere 0.98

00:55:29.360 in the wide chasm between these two choices, there is some place where we can actually,

00:55:34.940 let me throw this out there, do both. That we can simply say, I'm here to support this cause

00:55:42.620 because my Lord compels me. The Holy Spirit within me convicts me that this is right. And I've seen

00:55:50.660 the changes in my own life when I've been sanctified by giving myself over to that

00:55:56.580 conviction. And I want to share that goodness and taste and see that the Lord is good. I want to

00:56:03.220 share that goodness with others. But when you ask me to, you know, give 40 billion to Ukraine

00:56:09.980 and we'll give you, no, no, I'm not. I'm not here to conduct deals. You know, when you guys are

00:56:17.760 right i got your back when you're not i'm i'm i didn't move you did okay and and so there must

00:56:25.820 the problem is we don't non-conformity isn't great for business belonging to a team or a tribe

00:56:36.140 is and to your credit you've pointed out hey i've had to align myself theologically with people that

00:56:41.640 i kind of thought i was going to have to theologically correct or even oppose in some

00:56:46.320 cases but it's like what it's like what the apostles say hey lord this person over here is

00:56:50.300 doing these incredible things in your name but he's not one of us right should we go over there

00:56:54.440 and no right if he's not against us you know not against us of course yes and i think the fact

00:57:01.740 you're seeing such an eclectic group of critical thinkers emerge across our tribal lines i think

00:57:07.760 if you look at the history of how god's economy operates that is at least a hint that it could

00:57:13.800 very well be a movement of god cool well let's go ahead and land the plane here let me let me ask

00:57:19.360 you one more question and frame it up for a moment so you mentioned the overton window and how it used

00:57:24.980 to be so much more narrow you know in the 70s and the 80s you know in the 90s um and and now it's

00:57:30.260 like i mean when 49 out of 50 democrats they don't just vote to codify row they were way past

00:57:35.900 anything that row ever said and even that i always i want to say to the conservatives you see what

00:57:40.740 they're doing right now how they're scrambling to try to codify real meaning what it was never law

00:57:45.600 it was a supreme court opinion yeah they're admitting their own yeah so now all even a lot

00:57:51.260 of the pro-life industry is the veils being lifted it's like oh yeah you guys could have been doing

00:57:56.300 more this whole time but you were splitting the penny a million different times with you know like

00:58:01.080 so they'll come in in spice yet you reject mercy and spirit of the law you should have kept the

00:58:08.360 letter of the law christ says right yeah nothing wrong with the letter of the law but you don't do

00:58:12.420 it in spite of the spirit of the law that's right together so with so with the overton window it's

00:58:17.220 like when you got 49 democrat and they're not just trying to codify row but they were trying

00:58:21.000 to you know abortion for any reason in any state all the way up until the baby takes his first

00:58:24.360 breath that's 49 out of 15 you have that as a party as an ethos and you know and then you've

00:58:29.600 got companies like disney you know and and netflix is starting to see oh snap we don't want to be

00:58:34.540 disney go woke go broke you know but like you've got this over here and then and then you've got

00:58:39.240 you don't just have the right but you have it's starting to splinter and so you've got some of

00:58:42.940 these like these new conservatives and and you've got some of them you know um i'm not saying they're

00:58:48.200 you know far right in the sense of like they're conspiracy theorists i'm sure you got plenty of

00:58:53.200 those too but but my point is like you've got guys like me i'll just throw my myself in as an

00:58:57.300 example that um i you know i'm like man i want us to i don't want to just conserve i want to reform

00:59:02.780 the nation. I want reformation. I want us to go back to God's law, back to, you know, very,

00:59:08.120 very, very conservative. So my point is just to say the Overton window is just massive right now.

00:59:14.440 And so the question is, you know, how does a nation, I mean, you know, I feel like we've

00:59:20.180 been in a cold civil war. I think I've heard you and other guys talk about that for a little while

00:59:23.920 now. It hasn't gotten hot yet, but still it's cold. And I think of, I don't know if you ever

00:59:28.680 read, it was a couple of essays put together grubs, I think was his last name, but the fate

00:59:32.600 of empires. And he does this, this survey of world history and talks about how every major empire

00:59:37.660 lived, you know, it lasted for about 250 years, like right on the dot. And, you know, and we're,

00:59:42.160 we're right there. However, back to what you said in the very beginning, it is unique that America,

00:59:46.540 I, cause I would agree with you. I think the American experiment is the closest. I'm not

00:59:51.200 saying it's synonymous. I'm not saying that it's not, uh, that it's perfect, but the closest to a

00:59:55.520 nation built on biblical values, the biblical worldview that I think the world has seen.

01:00:00.520 So I think, you know, we could have maybe more than 250 years. But my point is, it seems like

01:00:05.900 when a nation gets that strong, if it's Rome or Persia or Assyria or Babylon or whatever it is,

01:00:11.840 a nation reaches the point of strength to where the only thing that ultimately takes it down

01:00:17.160 is enemies within it's it's it's an implosion um of of division um that the people there's a

01:00:24.380 decadence that begins there's a there's a um like david he's older right kings go to war but i think

01:00:29.660 i'll sit this season out you know and and it's self-sabotage and it's division within the ranks

01:00:35.940 and and then and then somebody when they're weak then somebody comes in and and takes over and so

01:00:40.120 my question is um are we going to have a civil war are we going to have a peaceful just divide

01:00:46.980 a bit like that some i mean something's going to have to happen this can't this isn't sustainable

01:00:52.140 well i think the setup to your question is spot on every syllable uh i've got good friends in

01:00:59.360 our industry slash movement that are advocates of what they call national divorce and i don't

01:01:04.780 believe that's possible because we're we're we're not dealing with a with an aberrant political

01:01:10.660 philosophy but a religion these are jehovah's witnesses with tanks right it doesn't matter how

01:01:16.760 many times you remind you show them the proof that their founder charles tasey russell admitted once

01:01:21.680 in court under oath that he could not translate hebrew or greek but he could claim to still offer

01:01:27.880 his author his own bible translation right it doesn't matter how many times you deconstruct

01:01:32.480 the watchtower society or ask them questions like so if only 144 000 people are going to be saved

01:01:38.860 But there's already four and a half million of you. Why are you still trying to add to your ranks?

01:01:43.240 It would seem like you have to settle some things internally here first. Right.

01:01:47.120 Those arguments don't work because it's religious, not science, not religious.

01:01:52.340 That's it's beyond logic. That's exactly right. And so I think that if we were capable of national divorce, we wouldn't be here.

01:02:00.320 They're not going to let us go. You're right. California and New York are going to let all those sunbelt states with low debt and high earnings.

01:02:08.860 and positive economic forecasts

01:02:11.700 that are undergirding

01:02:13.100 all of their profligate spending,

01:02:15.020 they're going to let you guys all go

01:02:16.720 and pay and be stuck with their own.

01:02:18.340 No, they're not.

01:02:19.500 Now, I do think we can do

01:02:20.840 some form of involuntary self-sorting 0.99

01:02:23.700 where we can make red communities 0.85

01:02:26.280 even redder. 0.98

01:02:27.560 That's what we did. 0.78

01:02:29.760 Red states even redder

01:02:30.980 to the point that the idea 0.96

01:02:33.240 that they would even want to move

01:02:35.420 to your state to infiltrate it

01:02:37.040 wouldn't even be contemplated okay i do think we can do that like they like they don't move to

01:02:44.720 west virginia to infiltrate it they move to like texas okay i do think that that could happen

01:02:50.520 all right but i don't think there'll be any sort form of formal peaceful national divorce even

01:02:55.860 though it's clear these worldviews cannot reconcile on my show i we we have said for

01:03:01.200 years that the end game here is revival or bust that we will see either um another great awakening

01:03:09.160 like what you saw in the in the 18th century that gave birth to american liberty and independence

01:03:15.560 in the first place i prefer the first great awakening just for the record to the second

01:03:19.340 that's why i like yeah go ahead but you'll either see revival right or bust and bust could look a

01:03:28.360 lot of different ways it could just it could look like cultural implosion it could look like foreign

01:03:35.120 invasion it could look like we just do the slow boat the slow the slow death by a thousand cuts 0.96

01:03:40.780 like western europe and we just wake up one day and the old catholic cathedrals are now mosques

01:03:45.880 and two percent of the population identifies as evangelical which is what i just described as 0.53

01:03:50.360 france okay and and so but but it's bust nevertheless it could be a cataclysmic bus

01:03:56.920 You know, the Visigoths come over the wall one day, or it could just be the slow bleed 0.86

01:04:00.780 out like what we've seen in Western Europe, okay?

01:04:03.340 But it's bust nevertheless.

01:04:05.280 And those, I think, are the only two options of where we stand right now.

01:04:08.880 Yep, I completely agree.

01:04:10.200 Well, any final thoughts for our listeners before I let you go?

01:04:13.800 I appreciate the conversation.

01:04:15.300 This has been very fun.

01:04:16.460 You know your stuff.

01:04:17.360 And I'm glad I set aside the time to do that.

01:04:20.360 And I hope people really enjoyed it.

01:04:21.840 So thank you.

01:04:22.480 Thank you, Steve.

01:04:23.060 Thanks for coming on the show.

01:04:23.920 And all of our listeners, we appreciate you guys, your support, your encouragement, and your prayers.

01:04:28.900 And if you want to follow Steve Dace, Steve, how can they do that?

01:04:34.300 Go to BlaiseTV.com slash Dace, which is D-E-A-C-E.

01:04:39.120 You can follow me on Twitter, Steve Dace Show, or look for my name on all the other social media networks or on iTunes if you want to subscribe to the podcast.

01:04:48.200 All right, great. Thanks so much for tuning in and thanks for coming on the show, Steve.

01:04:52.080 You bet. God bless.

01:04:52.940 Thanks so much for listening. But real quick, before you go, do us a small favor, take a moment and leave us a five-star review if you enjoyed the show. This is undoubtedly the best way that you can help us get this biblically faithful content to as many people as possible. Thanks so much.

The NXR Podcast - June 07, 2022

THEOLOGY APPLIED - Civil War Is Coming ｜ Where You Live Matters

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