The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Covenant & Biology ｜ Why Your Kids Belong To You ｜ with Jared Longshore

00:00:00.000 Join Douglas Wilson, Dr. Joseph Boot, Brian Sauve, Eric Kahn, and myself on March 1st,

00:00:12.080 2nd, and 3rd for our 2024 conference. It's called Blueprints for Christendom 2.0.

00:00:18.920 Go and visit rightresponseconference.com to register today. We hope to see you at the

00:00:24.780 conference in March.

00:00:30.000 covenant biology why your kids belong to you in this episode of theology applied i'm joined by

00:00:39.620 my friend jared longshore to discuss covenant theology covenant children and the growing

00:00:45.340 threat of the state trying to take away our children tune in now applying god's word to

00:00:52.160 every aspect of life this is theology applied

00:00:56.260 all right welcome back to another episode of theology applied i'm your host pastor joel

00:01:04.160 webin with right response ministries and in this episode i'm privileged to welcome back to the show

00:01:08.880 pastor jared longshore jared thanks for coming on hey glad to be with you again all right tell

00:01:14.620 our listeners just a little bit about yourself you're in moscow idaho what do you do so i'm a

00:01:19.600 minister at Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho. I am the undergraduate dean and a fellow of theology

00:01:29.760 at New St. Andrews College. I'm married to my wife, Heather. We have seven kids.

00:01:36.120 All right. Sounds good.

00:01:37.920 I've written some things from Canon Press.

00:01:39.640 Yeah, you have. What have you written?

00:01:42.740 Wisdom for Kings and Queens, The Case for the Christian Family. 0.87

00:01:47.220 Great. Well, the latter is what I was hoping we could discuss a little bit today, talking about,

00:01:53.220 so you and Chris Wiley, who's also written some things that are on Canon Plus, are both going to

00:01:57.900 be coming to my neck of the woods, joining us in Georgetown, Texas on November 11th. And the 12th

00:02:05.780 would be the Sunday, but November 11th is that Saturday. And we're going to do a one day, all day

00:02:09.780 conference with myself and you and Wiley. And so I'm excited about that. And the whole theme of

00:02:15.400 the conference is the household. I asked Chris if we could steal the name of his book for the title

00:02:21.880 for the conference. He gave me permission. So we've titled the conference, The Household and

00:02:26.180 the War for the Cosmos. And so you and Chris and myself, we're each going to have one talk and

00:02:30.900 then we're going to do a panel together. And then you're going to hold over and preach for us on the

00:02:34.240 Lord's Day at our church, Covenant Bible Church. So I'm excited about that. But in line with all

00:02:39.240 things, family-related, household, these kinds of things. What should Christians be thinking about? 0.73

00:02:45.900 Right now, there's a lot of fear, right? There's a lot of worry. There's a lot of concern about our

00:02:50.680 kids and how do we keep them? How do we protect them? That they don't grow up and go apostate,

00:02:55.380 you know, that they don't fall for the culture's lies. As you were writing, you know, The Case 0.98

00:03:00.180 for the Family, is that the name of the book? The Case for the Family?

00:03:04.320 Case for the Christian Family. 0.95

00:03:05.500 Case for the Christian family.

00:03:06.660 I know a lot of that's covenantal, not just isolated atoms, but molecules.

00:03:11.920 Get into some of that stuff for our listeners.

00:03:14.200 What is the family?

00:03:15.160 How do we keep our kids?

00:03:16.160 How do we protect them the whole nine yards? 1.00

00:03:20.160 You know, it's a crazy time, but it's also kind of an exciting time for Christians right now because we're getting a chance to see the fruit of the nasty stuff we've been messing around with. 0.72

00:03:32.140 And we didn't know that it was nasty.

00:03:35.500 So that's always a kindness from God when he's like, I'm going to go ahead and show you what you've been doing.

00:03:43.940 And what I mean by that is like the very structure of the family.

00:03:46.600 Like it's not as if Christians were like super solid on the structure of the family and then out popped a burger fell societally.

00:03:57.140 No, like we were messing around with the same ideas and we had the same problems, maybe not as bad.

00:04:04.040 And now is a moment where the Lord is turning all the lights on and saying, look what you did and go ahead.

00:04:11.160 And now let's get this. Let's let's rebuild.

00:04:15.660 And what I'll put that in, like, legal terms, this is kind of like the first chapter of my book in the case for the Christian family.

00:04:23.780 The first one is on covenant lost. That's what I call it. Covenant lost.

00:04:27.300 And I'm keying in on a Supreme Court case called Pavin v. Smith that came out of Arkansas and its relationship to Obergefell v. Hodges, which preceded it.

00:04:43.120 Okay, so Obergefell said that a dude can marry a dude.

00:04:48.520 Okay.

00:04:49.420 Right.

00:04:49.800 And that you have all the rights and privileges of marriage.

00:04:53.440 Okay.

00:04:53.960 One of those rights and privileges, of course, is offspring. 1.00

00:05:01.040 So what do you do when there's a lesbian couple down in Arkansas? 1.00

00:05:05.040 And one of the women, this really happened, became pregnant with a random man's semen. 1.00

00:05:13.520 Artificial reproductive technology.

00:05:15.480 So some guy sends in the goods and she becomes pregnant. 1.00

00:05:22.520 Well, she is, she's listed as a parent on the birth certificate, but these two lesbian women in Arkansas say we're in a, a Bergefell certified union. 1.00

00:05:37.640 And so we want this partner lady who didn't carry the child to be listed as a parent.

00:05:47.140 You know, what would you do? 0.99

00:05:48.920 We probably know what you would do, but. 1.00

00:05:52.520 arkansas said nothing doing like now we're not gonna do it well the ladies you know 1.00

00:06:00.000 went forward with their case and went all the way to the supreme court now the supreme court 0.63

00:06:04.240 looked at arkansas and found in their statute where they said had this been a heterosexual 0.95

00:06:09.120 couple jack and jill and jill is artificially inseminated with a random man's semen 0.97

00:06:15.580 via artificial reproductive technologies. 0.82

00:06:21.700 Jack's the dad.

00:06:24.460 Go ahead and put his name down.

00:06:27.840 And the Supreme Court said,

00:06:29.320 hey, Arkansas, according to Obergefell, 0.99

00:06:33.020 this lesbian couple has all the same rights and privileges. 1.00

00:06:37.540 Same, same. 1.00

00:06:38.500 You have to treat them the same. 0.99

00:06:39.540 so list this woman who has no biological relationship to the child

00:06:46.720 and no genuine wedlock relationship to the child put her name down as a parent

00:06:54.120 now that little line i said about genuine wedlock that's what would be fun to get into like

00:07:03.020 and we could do so by asking the question did ark does arkansas have the right standard

00:07:10.000 that jack would be listed as the dad right of the baby in jill's womb or that came from jill's womb

00:07:18.280 that he had no biological connection to was arkansas making the right move there or were

00:07:23.220 they making the wrong move right yeah let's talk about that and let's also talk about it in relation

00:07:26.820 to adoption which is a biblically valid category where there's not a biological line um well i'm

00:07:34.340 curious to hear your thoughts on that i was you know for the record i was adopted as a baby

00:07:38.980 i've never met my biological parents and don't really have any desire to um

00:07:45.620 but um i know that adoption is a biblical category that it's valid um but that's not exactly what's

00:07:52.900 happening i think some people would you know say well adoption you know and so i guess

00:07:56.660 this whole idea of you know in vitro you know and so it's it's the same thing um but but it

00:08:03.500 seems like it's not but what are your thoughts on that yeah so i'd like to get to the adoption

00:08:08.540 question but like maybe start here and then get over to the adoption question because something

00:08:14.020 pops for us when we hear that like jack and jill are married and let's say some random guy named

00:08:22.140 bob commits adultery with jill and she becomes pregnant who's the dad you know and this is like

00:08:33.500 classic like like talk show afternoon you know afternoon on a tuesday and they're like come back

00:08:39.900 after the break and we'll tell you who the dad is we we've done the we've done the we've got the

00:08:44.900 paternity test so we're a paternity test kind of people and our instincts are to say bob's a dad

00:08:50.580 Well, in a biological kind of sense, there's a biological relationship there that is important that ought not be denied.

00:09:03.060 But historically, even in our land, the tradition that we hold to would be Jack has first rights of paternity, not Bob.

00:09:17.140 Bob has done violence to Jill.

00:09:19.480 he's done violence to the union but the union is not dissolved simply by that act

00:09:26.220 biblically speaking jack is whose head jill's jill is whose body jack so i asked my students

00:09:37.680 recently when i was teaching this i said you know i said if i if my wife becomes pregnant whose body

00:09:43.500 is the child in and they the they had already teed him up they're like their eyes pop they're

00:09:49.400 like yours and i was like you're right they said now if you go tell them that i said men could get

00:09:54.940 pregnant i will deny it i will deny it outright that men can get pregnant but uh it's helpful

00:10:01.820 for it clicks for people because you're like that's biblical terminology my wife is my body

00:10:05.160 your wife is your body the wife is the body of her husband and husband is the head it's an organic

00:10:09.360 relationships, not just a matter of being a boss. The headship is not simply about being the one who

00:10:15.080 is in charge. It's this organic entity that now exists because of what God has done. He has joined

00:10:21.060 the two together. Let no man put us under. What do you do? What happens when a baby pops up in

00:10:28.340 the body of the one new entity that is the weapons or that is the long shorts? Who's the head? Well,

00:10:36.580 the wedlock we used to have that word wedlock all that to say is why arkansas made the right call

00:10:43.940 in their statute even if jack is not the biological um he's not biologically related

00:10:51.240 to the child that's in his wife's womb um he indeed is the head of that child right he has

00:10:58.840 covenantal headship he has wedlock headship he has all of the duties and responsibilities that

00:11:04.220 are incumbent upon a head providing for the welfare of this child the education of this child

00:11:10.500 protection of this child that falls on him not bob in the adultery situation now bob would have

00:11:16.920 to pay resources like bob has to pay but he has no right to say what what to do with it

00:11:25.100 Mm hmm. Right. Jack, Jack is the head. So that wedlock idea used to be very strong in our tradition and it's very covenantal and it's lost.

00:11:40.760 so we're we now the the conservatives still appreciate the biological relationship

00:11:46.600 okay but they have given up on this whole idea of wedlock that it actually means something more

00:11:53.600 than the um than than being the the byproduct of voluntary association right okay what is marriage

00:12:02.360 well it's nothing more than the product of the will of the parties involved that's what they

00:12:06.320 think. That's what modern man thinks. So, who cares? It's just that. It's not actually a divine

00:12:13.440 act where two people are bound together, right? And even if this non-biological entity pops up

00:12:20.860 in my wife's womb, it's mine. Why? Because God made us one, and it's in her womb. Oh,

00:12:31.180 but you're not biologically related.

00:12:35.600 What did God do?

00:12:37.480 God made us one.

00:12:40.160 And it's mine.

00:12:42.300 One, I would mention an ethical.

00:12:43.880 This would do such good for our society.

00:12:46.160 Like men don't like that.

00:12:48.540 Like what is the guy that's out, you know,

00:12:50.720 just like gallivanting around getting all these ladies pregnant?

00:12:53.960 Like what is he?

00:12:54.560 He'll still talk about like his children every now and then,

00:12:56.680 like how many children I have.

00:12:58.020 And be like, you know, no, you don't.

00:13:01.180 Men don't like that.

00:13:03.060 If you look at men and say, like, oh, you keep messing around, you do that kind of stuff, and another man is going to raise your seed, another man's going to, you know, your seed's going to call someone else dad.

00:13:15.920 Men don't like that.

00:13:17.780 That's a protection of women, it's a protection of sexual purity and all of that for us to recover this idea of wedlock and how important it is in our society.

00:13:26.900 So, back to the Patton v. Smith case, like, what's going on in the law that the woman, the second woman, who doesn't have a biological relationship, it doesn't have a wedlock, a real wedlock relationship? 0.73

00:13:45.780 So, I should back up, like, Christians, we don't believe there's any real marriage there. 0.67

00:13:49.460 There's not real wedlock. 0.95

00:13:50.480 God did not join them together.

00:13:52.100 So, it's not like God joined them together and is kind of malformed.

00:13:54.860 it's like, no, he didn't do anything. It doesn't exist. No marriage. If they both became

00:14:00.820 Christians, they wouldn't need a divorce because there is no marriage. So then you're left going, 0.97

00:14:08.020 why in the world would we grant parental authority and rights to that woman who has 1.00

00:14:18.500 no biological relationship and who has no wedlock relationship whatsoever and it's just the pure 1.00

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00:16:12.680 So, I would say, and this is, there's Jeff Schaefer is the head of the Hale Institute out here in Moscow, Idaho.

00:16:23.360 Brilliant, brilliant fellow.

00:16:25.780 You can find the stuff on the internet.

00:16:27.260 I did an interview with him on this topic.

00:16:30.220 But he's tracked in the law that this language of intent-based parenting.

00:16:37.380 We all think that way, like intent-based.

00:16:40.780 so it's what is it based in well my intention and there's actually a law that there's a case

00:16:46.700 of this in uh california back in the day now um it's scary to think how far down the line we are

00:16:52.960 but back in the day there was a case in california where a woman was going to be a surrogate

00:16:56.700 right so she she receives the embryo you know so the egg from another from another woman not her

00:17:05.620 egg but implanted in her womb right yeah so somebody else's sperm somebody else's egg and

00:17:12.300 then she's just she's she's hairy yeah she's uh so and you know i'm gonna deliver the baby and 1.00

00:17:18.760 i'll give it back to you well you know eight months pregnant she's like i want this baby

00:17:25.220 this baby's mine and you got a real pickle what are you gonna do now right um well and there's

00:17:34.220 actually you could find statutes that say like the birth the woman who gives birth is the mother

00:17:40.200 like we can't just totally like trivialize that as if you're just some kind of ship carrying the

00:17:45.760 cargo uh it's not it's not that's not that's not an accurate representation of what's going on

00:17:51.340 there something far more um troublesome is going on right right in that whole scenario but

00:17:57.920 But nevertheless, California said we're going to grant we're going to we're going to grant

00:18:03.560 maternity rights to the woman that intended the child. 0.80

00:18:09.400 So intention becomes like the only thing left. 0.90

00:18:15.800 If you get rid of the covenantal slash wedlock idea and if you lose the natural biological

00:18:25.260 idea.

00:18:25.980 So the natural biological idea was like keeping us in the insanity-ville for a while.

00:18:32.380 But now that that's going, you don't have wedlock.

00:18:36.080 Wedlock means nothing.

00:18:37.200 It's not a divine action that joins people together that has any kind of substantial significance for us.

00:18:43.900 And now we're in this crazy, creepy world where, legally speaking, your children don't belong to you anymore.

00:18:50.240 Now we've got all kinds of protections in the law.

00:18:52.400 So the law will have to work itself pure, as my friend Jeff Schaefer says.

00:18:57.220 So we'll see what happens.

00:18:58.620 But the rationale that went into Pavan V. Smith means that if somebody shows up at the weapons door and says, your kids don't belong to you anymore, what are you going to say?

00:19:08.960 You're going to say, I'm the head of this household.

00:19:12.020 I've been I've been covenantally bound to their mom and whatever comes from her.

00:19:17.660 Like these the this is fruit from our from us.

00:19:21.180 It's mine.

00:19:21.900 Well, they don't recognize that.

00:19:23.580 And then you say, okay, well, go get the paternity test.

00:19:25.920 Go get the, well, let's do the biological thing.

00:19:27.680 Don't you see they have my eyes?

00:19:29.580 And they're going to say, well, that doesn't matter anymore.

00:19:31.760 Like we can trans kids.

00:19:33.180 So that's no big deal, right?

00:19:34.620 It doesn't matter what you, what you are.

00:19:36.700 Your biological relationship doesn't matter.

00:19:38.880 What matters is how bad do you want it?

00:19:41.720 And then you say, well, I want it.

00:19:44.080 And so you're a straight white man.

00:19:46.340 so what you want doesn't carry as much weight as what this other lady over here says she wants 0.99

00:19:53.860 she wants to be the dad for your kids and we got to elevate her voice and her intention

00:19:58.680 right now somebody's gonna say i don't think that would really happen well but that's the logic

00:20:04.260 that is actually there okay now that's an application that probably wouldn't get through

00:20:10.340 the court system right now okay it's just an application all of the necessary ingredients

00:20:16.120 for that recipe are already in the kitchen i mean they're already in the pot they're kind of

00:20:20.980 brewing the soup's not soup's not done yet but that's the creepy way that we're um we're thinking

00:20:27.380 about children yep that's the logic it um that particular application may seem far-fetched at

00:20:32.520 least today uh one that doesn't seem as far-fetched that i think you know god forbid if we don't have

00:20:38.260 you know, repentance and reformation in our, our country. One that seems far more likely is that

00:20:44.080 children would just belong to the state because the state has intent. Kamala Harris, she has a 0.98

00:20:50.340 lot of intent for children to belong to this universal court. You know, there, there are kids, 0.71

00:20:56.660 our kids, you know, it takes a village to raise a child. And I could, you know, sometimes I think

00:21:01.780 like, well, I'll just, I was talking to my wife about this the other day and just thinking how

00:21:06.000 crazy things have gotten in our nation and then thinking about some of the freedoms that we still

00:21:09.960 have and thinking that like that that it's kind of crazy that we have any freedom at all as hard

00:21:16.980 hearted as people are today as far as we we've rebelled from the lord and i was thinking like

00:21:22.380 it really is remarkable that that uh that we still have kids that that um i'm i'm kind of surprised

00:21:29.380 that that hasn't already happened with this much rebellion turning against god's principles god's

00:21:34.740 word god's design um i'm surprised that the government uh lets individual people with their

00:21:41.700 own individual religions traditions ideology practices like i'm surprised that uh that uncle

00:21:48.800 sam still lets families keep kids you know and yeah i think that's our long we have such a long

00:21:56.740 tradition you know um there's just a it's going to be a slow burn we're going to have when things

00:22:04.920 start to unravel they can unravel very quickly right and that's why this moment is so intense

00:22:10.080 but you still the the law is a good example like the rationale that went into patvin v smith is

00:22:15.500 crazy town absolute crazy town okay like insane um but you have all of these previous decisions

00:22:23.740 that are kind of still holding it from manifesting its complete insanity-ness.

00:22:33.220 So we thank God for that heritage that still keeps people.

00:22:38.060 Right, that's what I was going to say.

00:22:38.900 The heritage is the only thing holding things back,

00:22:42.060 is that we're on the heels of all this prior Christmas. 0.77

00:22:45.860 But our job is to actually, we need Christians to recover that idea.

00:22:51.160 So when, I've used this before,

00:22:53.500 When the Department of Children and Families come knocking on your door and saying, your children don't belong to you anymore, I'd say, what are our instincts as Christians?

00:23:06.020 I have no problem whatsoever, and I think it's a good idea for you to say, go get the paternity test.

00:23:13.080 So I don't mind the natural argument, and I don't think it's in any conflict whatsoever with this covenantal wedlock thing I'm talking about.

00:23:20.680 But the covenantal wedlock thing should be fronted in our minds, and we have to recover its significance.

00:23:31.980 Meaning, you look at them and say, first, have you lost your mind?

00:23:38.640 You've absolutely lost your mind.

00:23:41.420 I tell people, when I tell this illustration, I say, the first thing you say is, my Mossberg 12-gauge shotgun over there says they're my kids.

00:23:47.740 That's good.

00:23:48.420 And I say, may your tribe increase.

00:23:50.420 that's good but we do need to actually get this down into our bones right um god so like 0.52

00:23:57.880 when a woman walks down the aisle when jill walks down the aisle there's jill williams

00:24:06.200 and jack thompson okay okay um when god joins them together in that ceremony and then of course

00:24:19.240 in the consummation of that marriage um you now have this new entity that did not exist before

00:24:26.480 you have this entity called um the thompsons right mr and mrs jack thompson mr and mrs jack

00:24:34.960 thompson so i don't know if i've already said this on your podcast or not but no i just know

00:24:38.500 how weddings go i've done but i've used this illustration often in making this point or um

00:24:45.260 or teaching students at New St. Andrews, you know,

00:24:48.840 when you're sitting there in that service and they said,

00:24:51.540 I present to you for the very first time, Mr. and Mrs. Jack Thompson,

00:24:56.660 it's right for people to go, oh, like, did he mess up the liturgy?

00:24:59.940 Did he forget her name?

00:25:03.960 And the answer is no, like he didn't forget her name

00:25:06.240 because this is the traditional way of announcing it

00:25:08.300 because you're dealing with one new entity that now exists

00:25:11.080 that did not exist before.

00:25:12.300 Now, I want to maintain Jack does not lose his jackness and Jill does not lose her Jillness.

00:25:18.480 But there is now this one new covenanted entity that exists.

00:25:21.840 And God deals with that covenanted entity as an entity.

00:25:25.540 And he deals with them in that fashion.

00:25:30.740 And all of that is underneath. 1.00

00:25:33.580 Okay, and then something crops up in her womb.

00:25:37.240 Fruit.

00:25:38.260 Well, who's the head?

00:25:40.920 I mean, we know this.

00:25:41.960 You already know.

00:25:42.620 You've already established it once you know what marriage is.

00:25:45.860 So when the DCF is knocking on your door, the have you lost your mind is based on God has covenanted.

00:25:53.520 We're one entity.

00:25:55.340 Like how do you think these children could not be mine?

00:26:00.020 You lost your mind.

00:26:02.140 So you can see that basically running that shows the intimate, inextricable connection between marriage and children. 0.98

00:26:10.280 So if you get marriage wrong, which we did with the Burgerfowl legally, then you're going to get children wrong, which we've done legally with Pavan v. Smith. 0.86

00:26:18.620 And you're saying especially if you get marriage wrong first, that's the covenantal piece, but then you also get biology wrong. 0.98

00:26:23.580 You get nature wrong, you know, with all the craziness of, you know, now with, you know, transgenderism and in vitro and all these different things that now you've got both halves wrong and there's not a lot of hope. 0.99

00:26:39.780 The only thing that we have right at this point is the, uh, just the legal, all, all 1.00

00:26:44.380 the prior legal, uh, developments from a Christian, you know, nation that used to fear the Lord. 0.88

00:26:50.520 And, but once that slowly, you know, or maybe quickly unravels, hopefully not, but slowly 0.66

00:26:55.480 erodes, uh, then, then all you've got is the shotgun.

00:26:59.640 But as Biden has told us, you may have a shotgun, you know, but he's got nukes and he'll use

00:27:05.400 them on the American people.

00:27:06.440 apparently that seems to be the argument he made so so could you link it for us uh jared now with

00:27:13.260 adoption because adoption you don't have the biology piece but i i'm pretty sure i know what

00:27:17.920 you know i know what my answer would be but you still have the covenantal piece my question that

00:27:22.980 would be you know you still got marriage you still got the head you still got the body um but how

00:27:28.980 it's got to be significant not just in in the couple that adopts and saying that we will take

00:27:35.360 this person as our own, as our child. But there also has to be a significant piece of

00:27:41.140 the rejecting, the initial rejecting. For myself, I remember when I was younger, I would

00:27:47.060 sometimes struggle with rejection. It's like I just kind of instinctively knew. Nobody even

00:27:52.560 really had to tell me. But I knew that in one sense, there was something special that I was

00:27:58.840 chosen um but i couldn't be chosen unless uh somebody else didn't want me there had to be

00:28:05.300 i had to be rejected uh and cut off here in order to be chosen over there i think of like grafting

00:28:11.560 you know like like branches they got to be cut off here to be grafted on onto this other tree

00:28:16.240 what what are some of your thoughts on that yeah i think the um i mentioned this also in in

00:28:22.740 um in the book that i i think i used the illustration i'm from florida you know we

00:28:28.480 got rivers down there and swamps and stuff so i use large mouth bass as an illustration but the uh

00:28:34.220 so the the natural family call it the natural family and the covenantal family

00:28:40.380 were never meant to be two different families right um and so so um the natural family is like

00:28:48.380 the bass swimming in the covenantal family stream they were always meant to be together

00:28:56.400 now in a fallen broken world you have times when the bass jumps out of the river

00:29:01.480 right river keeps flowing the covenantal family keeps flowing um but that is a that's a bass out

00:29:09.900 of the river so you have to have this like uh full appreciation for both of these realities

00:29:16.820 nature matters matters a whole lot right and covenant matters and i think what's happening

00:29:26.620 now is we're our society is like losing its mind so it's losing nature right um but we lost

00:29:34.020 covenantal thinking before that yeah we're losing our mind now so we're losing nature but we already

00:29:39.740 lost our soul so we lost covenant a long time ago yeah we lost the covenant thing and i think by

00:29:47.780 i think so in the adoption case i think uh beefing up this covenantal wedlock and what it means

00:29:54.740 will is a very important part of adoption right right and so i mean you always cast this in the

00:30:03.480 paedolite and the sacrament thing if there's a if a man adopts children then they're warranted

00:30:10.320 baptism this is a covenantal this is how strong the covenant is right right this is how strong

00:30:17.720 god when he says yes yes here it is same same principle with marriage something very much like

00:30:25.040 it is going on in that adoption he's saying these are these kids who are they what's their last name

00:30:32.520 and their last name is signifying um a a reality okay that's the thing i could signify a real

00:30:41.160 thing a real entity that exists where that adopted child should say who's my who's my head

00:30:48.440 right right here he is yep yeah i have his name like i remember my dad telling me when i was

00:30:54.000 little he's like you know because because my parents um they weren't my mother wasn't able

00:30:58.880 to my adopted parents uh mother wasn't able to conceive and then later um which this is story

00:31:04.660 oldest time it seems like i hear the story all the time but uh god you know opened up my adoptive

00:31:09.920 mother's womb after they adopted me and so you know i have two two brothers and a sister and uh

00:31:15.720 that are you know biological to my adopted parents and i remember my dad telling me you know um you

00:31:21.800 know your siblings have my blood uh but you have my name and uh and you know emphasizing you know

00:31:27.780 like you are a weapon, you know, you are my son and, uh, the strength of a name, you know,

00:31:33.400 and those kinds of things. And what my dad was telling me essentially was, um, and not so many

00:31:38.140 words, but he was, he was talking about, uh, the weight of covenant, you know, I remember, you know,

00:31:43.500 it's been said before, um, you know, uh, blood is thicker than water unless that water is the

00:31:49.960 water of baptism, you know? And so like covenant is nature, nature is binding. But it seems as

00:31:58.920 though covenant is even more binding to where, whether it be, you know, Ruth, you know, your

00:32:04.680 people who aren't her people, you know, but they will be my people. Your God will be my God. And

00:32:10.920 so we see this in the gospel. We see this in the Christian family and to see this in

00:32:16.880 individual families with adoption seems to be certainly biblical, but also makes logical sense.

00:32:24.020 One question, though, that I have is, you know, the individual earlier you were talking about,

00:32:28.160 there's, you know, there's Jack and Jill, and then there's Bob. And let's say in this instance,

00:32:31.820 you know, Jill was unfaithful to Jack, and there was an adultery and affair that took place with

00:32:37.040 Bob. Well, the fruit of that wrong and sinful union is that Jack now has a child, because

00:32:46.800 he's jill's covenant head so this this fruit belongs to him but you said bob would still

00:32:51.880 have a responsibility and moral obligation he's going to pay so there is some you know jack has

00:32:57.220 all the rights and he also has you know because rights and duties are never severed from one

00:33:02.060 another rights and responsibilities come as a package deal so jack has rights and authority

00:33:06.560 as head over jill and and therefore over the offspring of jill it is now his offspring so

00:33:12.860 he's going to have the rights of authority he's also going to have with those rights responsibilities

00:33:16.240 But Bob also has some level of responsibility also in terms of provision.

00:33:21.140 But in adoption, like my biological parents, for instance, never had to pay, you know, they didn't have to pay money.

00:33:29.460 When my parents made that, my adopted parents made that decision to adopt me and my birth mother made that decision to give me up for adoption.

00:33:38.760 It's different than the situation that we earlier covered with Bob.

00:33:43.200 It was a clean sever.

00:33:46.240 um what what is the difference there yeah well the um the difference is depending on what's

00:33:54.420 happening in an adoption situation it could just be a reality of the fall right so it it has it

00:34:02.460 has the ability to be categorically different than a case of adultery um father and mother

00:34:08.220 getting a car crash and there's three-year-old you know right adoption yeah um so yeah so they're

00:34:14.520 not liking the same kind of things happening right the headship the headship transfer thing

00:34:19.760 is happening um but they're not going to be identical they're going to have different

00:34:25.760 circumstances going into what happened there and i'd add maybe as a final point as you were

00:34:31.160 talking about what your um what your adopted father has done like you if you were to track

00:34:38.900 nature in its relationship to covenant so the the potency of this covenantal idea for him to say to

00:34:45.320 you you know they have my blood you have my name right but now um now you have kids right and they

00:34:55.740 have his name they do and your blood so there's now nature and covenant are back where they are

00:35:06.800 supposed to be yeah and you have this beautiful i think that's the potency of god's covenantal

00:35:14.820 dealings right he's always setting things back in order you're watching him like recover it through

00:35:20.400 that work of a faithful father um watching him restore all things wow that's good all right

00:35:28.780 well we're going to talk more about these kinds of things and how to protect your kids uh how to

00:35:33.880 make sure I, you know, we want arrows. We want to have a lot of arrows. But, you know, Doug has 0.99

00:35:39.320 said multiple times that it would have been of no benefit for Samuel to have, you know, five sons

00:35:45.160 who took bribes rather than two. And so we want to have lots of arrows in the quiver, but we also

00:35:51.260 want to have quality arrows and arrows need to be straight and they need to be sharp. We want them

00:35:56.560 to not be impotent arrows, but we also don't want them to be so bent and out of shape that they,

00:36:02.800 like a boomerang we shoot them out and they actually swing all the way back around instead

00:36:07.740 of doing damage to our enemies they come back and whack us in the head which seems like

00:36:11.160 part of what's been going on sadly within evangelicalism for a while as kids grow up

00:36:16.660 you know in evangelical churches and then they start playing you know they switch jerseys and

00:36:21.820 they're playing for the other team and go go apostate and so we're going to be talking about

00:36:25.560 all those things and more with uh cr wiley at our conference coming up it's going to be november

00:36:29.480 11th, that Saturday. And I think we can end here. I want to give you the final word. Jared,

00:36:34.800 is there anything you'd like to leave us with on this topic of covenant and children and marriage

00:36:39.220 and those kinds of things? No, I think I spent all my words though. I am looking forward to

00:36:44.400 getting down there with you in Texas, getting some good Texas barbecue. I'm down there. I hope I can

00:36:49.440 get some of that. They don't have any barbecue in Northern Idaho. I wouldn't imagine so. Well,

00:36:55.580 you know it's funny I um I don't know what the release schedule of this will be but I um in terms

00:37:01.660 of the schedule of recording I recorded with uh Rachel Jankovic uh last night and uh and I

00:37:07.520 she was somehow it came up Grace Agenda and the big block party and I said um but why tritip

00:37:14.280 where's where's brisket I don't understand like tritip that's what they do in California you know

00:37:18.840 like, but barbecue, it's brisket. And she was like, well, you know, she didn't really. And then

00:37:25.360 it dawned on me. I was like, yeah, Idaho is great. Praise God for Idaho. But that's not a barbecue

00:37:30.460 place. It's not a barbecue place. Just not. Yeah, I'm sure it was. Tri-tip is good. It's just,

00:37:37.900 it's usually a little bit more chewy. Whereas, you know, I mean, it's, it's up to you and your

00:37:41.940 personal taste because brisket is, you know, whenever you go in, it's like, you want the,

00:37:45.820 you know you want the flat or you want the point you know and for me it's always um the fattiest

00:37:50.500 piece of brisket you've got is the one that i want so so if you like the you know if you want

00:37:55.820 the chewy lean then yeah tri-tip's great but if you want um if you want to die at the ripe young

00:38:02.180 age of uh of like 39 then uh texas barbecue brisket that's the way to go all right this

00:38:09.200 barbecue here i come all right thanks for coming on the show jared and i look forward to seeing

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The NXR Podcast - September 19, 2023

THEOLOGY APPLIED - Covenant & Biology ｜ Why Your Kids Belong To You ｜ with Jared Longshore

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