The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Ending Abortion ｜ Incrementalism Vs. Abolitionism ｜ with Dusty Deevers and Jacob Miller

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00:00:40 Welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied.

00:00:43 I am your host, Pastor Joel Webbin with Right Response Ministries.

00:00:47 In this particular episode, I am very privileged to have two special guests.

00:00:52 I have Jacob Miller, who is an abolitionist, and he is a member in good standing in my

00:00:57 local church, Covenant Bible Church, where I pastor in Georgetown, Texas, just about

00:01:02 45 minutes north of Austin, Texas.

00:01:05 And then we also have, on this particular episode, Dusty Deavers.

00:01:08 Dusty Deavers is a Reformed Baptist pastor.

00:01:11 He also is an abolitionist. 1.00

00:01:13 I have Jacob and Dusty on this show to talk about the abolishing of abortion that Christians 0.72

00:01:21 cannot tolerate compromise and that every law that we put forward must be just according to

00:01:28 God's immutable standards in his word. You're going to love this episode. Tune in now.

00:01:34 Applying God's word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.

00:01:44 All right. Welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied. I am your host,

00:01:48 Pastor Joel Webin with Right Response Ministries. And in this episode, I am privileged to have

00:01:53 two special guests. I have Jacob Miller, who I am honored to get to be his pastor. He's a member

00:01:59 in good standing with his wife and children at Covenant Bible Church in Georgetown, Texas,

00:02:04 just north of Austin, where I am a local pastor. And then we also have, joining us for the first

00:02:09 time, Dusty Deavers, who lives in Oklahoma City. Is that correct? Southwest Oklahoma, near Lawton,

00:02:16 Elgin. Okay. All right. So Southwest Oklahoma. And are you a pastor, Dusty?

00:02:21 Yes, I am a pastor of Reformed Baptist Church.

00:02:24 Great. And then are you also, I might be thinking of Bradley Pierce, but are you also a lawyer?

00:02:31 No, I ran a pharmacy for five years and now I'm a pastor and do some commercial real estate stuff

00:02:40 as well. Great. That pharmacy wasn't Pfizer or anything, was it?

00:02:46 No, no, it was just a local pharmacy that my father started in 1982.

00:02:52 Oh, wow. Cool. All right. Well, welcome to the show, guys. Jacob, thanks for joining us.

00:02:58 Good to see you.

00:02:59 All right. So this is what we want to talk about. If you were curious, what's the topic going to be?

00:03:03 The clue to kind of give you a little bit of a hint would be at Jacob's shirt.

00:03:08 In fact, I don't know if I've ever seen Jacob wearing a shirt that's not an abolitionist shirt. 0.62

00:03:13 it's always assured that abortion is murder or something like that. One of them I love, 0.87

00:03:18 it says ignore Roe, which has become really easy now, praise God. So anyways, Jacob's always 0.71

00:03:24 rocking the abolitionist gear. Why don't you guys just kick us off? I've got some comments that I

00:03:29 can make, but Jacob or Dusty, why don't you guys take it away? What is the abolitionist position

00:03:34 when it comes to the issue of abortion? Well, I guess I'll kick it off. There is a distinction

00:03:42 between what it means to be pro-life and what it means to be an abolitionist.

00:03:47 Abortion abolitionists recognize children from the moment of conception or fertilization,

00:03:56 conception, biblically speaking, fertilization, scientifically speaking, as fully human,

00:04:02 creating the image of God, owned by God, where he ensouls and enfleshes that new person

00:04:09 from the moment of conception or fertilization and deserving then of the same protection that

00:04:15 you or I deserve as born people. And so since we see that life as truly human, then we say

00:04:24 what God says, you must treat them as such. And so to take any life before they're born or after

00:04:31 is a homicide. So before they're born, it would be prenatal homicide.

00:04:36 Now, the pro-life position would be in contrast to that.

00:04:42 And the pro-lifers recognize that the most, I think the most well-meaning ones recognize that that is a life from conception or fertilization.

00:04:55 but they don't begin to demand their legal protection until sometime after that moment.

00:05:05 If we want to be consistent, they don't just not demand their legal protection. They provide the

00:05:13 right or protect the right for mothers to murder their own pre-born children with malice of 0.63

00:05:21 forethought. So they protect a class of murderers through all pro-life laws. I could go into it 0.72

00:05:30 more, but that's kind of the short order. Yeah, no, that's really helpful. Jacob,

00:05:34 what do you want to add? Yeah, that's good. That's good as far as like definitionally. I think

00:05:38 the biggest thing that separates, in my opinion, the biggest thing that separates an abolitionist

00:05:44 from a pro-lifer is taking the biblical text of what defines sin in regards to partiality

00:05:50 and applying it completely in all in our practice too so for example many conservatives would look

00:05:57 at um would look at like uh affirmative action we'd say oh that's partiality you know they're

00:06:04 they're showing uh favor just to black people rather than asians they're making it harder for

00:06:10 them to get there but then they would support a heartbeat bill which is showing partiality to

00:06:14 some humans after the heartbeat bill and they wouldn't just do it they wouldn't just show

00:06:18 support for it they celebrate it with excitement and it's the same kind of partiality except one

00:06:24 doesn't let you get into colleges and one allows you to get murdered right yeah and full disclosure

00:06:31 you know in my ignorance and foolishness and sin and immaturity um i didn't recognize these things

00:06:37 until really the past i would say the past couple years um i didn't really i didn't really know

00:06:43 there was a you know when i was pastoring in california before i i moved uh to texas i was

00:06:47 born and raised here and so we ultimately moved back at the end of 2020 but when i was pastoring

00:06:51 in california we had some guys who were faithful who go outside of uh the the murder mills uh in

00:06:57 you know in the city where i pastored and they would you know preach the gospel and i went with

00:07:01 them a couple times and always supported that never said it was um bad to do always said it

00:07:06 was good and righteous to do and so you know we we were not winsome we were faithful and uh but i

00:07:12 but i never really you know i never thought about the inner workings like i'm the kind of guy you

00:07:16 know, with a heartbeat bill or something like that, I would have thought like, hey, you know,

00:07:19 that's step in the right direction. That's better than nothing. You know, praise God, at least some

00:07:23 babies are going to live now, you know, and those kinds of things. And so I want to, you know, as

00:07:29 we're doing this, I think that there are some people who are nefarious, who wave the Christian 0.59

00:07:34 flag and they know exactly what they're doing. And they're actually, you know, they're just

00:07:42 they're just big pro-life people they're making a buck off of this pro the pro-life industry is

00:07:48 it's an industry it's it's a you know it's a business like anything else and they know exactly

00:07:52 what they're doing they don't care about the babies and they're not actually christian so i

00:07:56 think there's plenty of those guys but then i think there are also some other guys uh like

00:08:00 like past joel webin you know that uh that were just ignorant uh and so what what are um can you

00:08:08 explain like, so, okay, when Texas, you know, drop their heartbeat bill, why, why, like, I understand

00:08:16 it's like, they're saying, Hey, you know what, here's a whole class of people, everybody before

00:08:19 six weeks or eight weeks that it's, you know, it's open season. It's like purge. If you ever,

00:08:23 you know, not recommending the movie, but you know, like here's, here's one day out of the

00:08:26 year that you can go and murder, you know, without, without any, you know, without any

00:08:30 recourse or, or any penalties. And, and we're saying, Hey, anybody who's younger than six

00:08:35 weeks or eight weeks from fertilization, you're free to kill without any penalty. I totally

00:08:41 understand how that is unjust and unbiblical, but what would you say to the Christian who's, 0.76

00:08:46 you know, this is new to them, the whole abolitionist position, and they're just saying,

00:08:50 well, I'm just glad that some babies are being saved. I'm not saying this is just, I'm not saying

00:08:53 it's biblical, and certainly we've got to go for more. What would you say to, you know,

00:08:57 the incrementalist? What would you say to somebody like Doug Wilson, who I know we,

00:09:00 all three of us appreciate him, respect him, are grateful for him, but would differ on this

00:09:05 particular topic, maybe this and baptism. And that is probably about it, at least for me.

00:09:10 Everything else, I'm with Doug Wilson. So what would you say to somebody like that?

00:09:17 You know, Doug has said a couple of times, I've heard him in different venues say,

00:09:23 we should reject a bill that says you can, if you, you can't do these things, but then if you do 0.96

00:09:31 these things, then you can kill the child. And that's what every incrementalist bill does. So

00:09:39 he says that he's a smash mouth incrementalist, but he affirms the types of bills that he says

00:09:46 we should fundamentally deny on biblical grounds because they show partiality. Here's the kind of

00:09:54 the term that people use is incrementalism. You know, the incrementalist says, well, as long as

00:10:01 it'll save one baby, then that's good. And we get that response fairly often. And it seems like

00:10:12 a well-meaning response. And it could be, truly could be from someone who thinks this is the

00:10:19 best we can do, so we should try to accomplish it. But there's a fundamental flaw in incrementalism.

00:10:28 And so let me just quickly define it. It is changed by degree, but really it's any support

00:10:35 or action using unequal weights and measures

00:10:39 and showing partiality in our legislative efforts.

00:10:43 It is seeking to establish a better environment

00:10:50 by allowing some evil.

00:10:53 In Romans 3, 8, Paul says,

00:10:55 if anyone does some evil that some good may come,

00:11:01 their condemnation is already proven.

00:11:03 We don't even have to talk about it.

00:11:05 This is you can't keep one one command by violating the others.

00:11:10 If you break the law, you've broken them all.

00:11:13 So really what we're seeking to establish is justice or righteous judgment as God demands it.

00:11:21 So instead of treating abortion as though it's health care to be regulated, God demands we treat abortion as murder to be criminalized or abolished.

00:11:32 And I'll say this, from a biblical standpoint, any willing embrace of an approach to pre-born life that compromises God's holy standard of justice or his own character is an attempt then to usurp God's sovereignty as the creator.

00:11:52 it promotes God-hating partiality. And ultimately, that approach to pre-born life that compromises

00:12:02 God's standard of justice is an assault on God's image and his glory. So we would never support

00:12:11 a partiality in judgment. We must stand exactly where God stands. And I understand that that kind

00:12:20 of creates some difficult scenarios for folks. But think of it like this. Does God say to the

00:12:31 adulterer, you know what, if you will improve or change your adultery by degree, then everything's

00:12:41 going to be okay. We're going to be fine. I'll work with you if you just change by decree. Does

00:12:45 he changed his holy standard? He doesn't change his holy standard. He says, you shall not commit

00:12:51 adultery. And Jesus says, you can't even lust in your heart. And so while we are sanctified

00:12:58 in progress, we progress in our sanctification, while culture often changes by degree and it

00:13:06 progresses by degree, God's holy standard never is to be changed or, or slided or shifted because

00:13:14 really you're you're saying that god's character is worth changing and so it's it's an assault on

00:13:20 god it's image bearers and it must not be promoted by christians this this uh um pragmatism

00:13:30 you know pragmatic efforts that that was helpful dusty uh what i would say with your adultery

00:13:36 analogy just to this is my opinion correct me if you disagree and i may push back or i might agree

00:13:42 with you we'll see but what i would say is that um the christian all right so let's say it's a 0.97

00:13:47 young man he's struggling with promiscuity promiscuity masturbation pornography the whole 0.98

00:13:53 nine yards he's a single young man but he's a christian he professes christ and let's say he 0.99

00:13:57 really is regenerate he really is born again and he he wants to live a life that is holy and he

00:14:02 knows that god has called him um to be married and to practice absolute abstinence and chastity

00:14:08 before marriage. Let's say that he is being sanctified by degrees, incrementally. But the

00:14:18 difference is that every time he sins and he repents his sin unto the Lord, it's a whole

00:14:24 repentance in the sense of, he's not saying to the Lord, you know what, I'm sorry that I looked

00:14:30 at pornography for 10 minutes. Next time I promise to look at it only for nine, thinking that the

00:14:34 Lord would be pleased with this wager. Instead, he's saying, you detest and hate this entirely,

00:14:42 and by your grace, I'm going to do my very best as empowered by the Holy Spirit to not do it ever

00:14:48 again, to not even think of a woman lustfully, to not look upon it, to make a covenant with my eyes,

00:14:54 you know, this and that, to, you know, like Owen would say, to make even no provisions for the

00:15:00 flesh, to get more accountability, to do this, to do that, the whole nine yards, and then he fails.

00:15:04 So that genuinely is his plea. That's his heart. That's his prayer. That's his intent is wholesale

00:15:11 repentance, complete sanctification. Three days go by and he fails. And the next time he fails,

00:15:18 it is a lesser degree than the previous failure. What I would say is that that is incremental

00:15:24 improvement, but the difference is in terms of the design and plan and intent was complete

00:15:33 holiness to be holy as god is holy and and and righteous as he is righteous that's what each of

00:15:39 us like like we're all none of us we we all three of us would reject um you know the doctrine of of

00:15:45 arriving at we're not wesleyan we don't believe in secondness and you know sinless perfectionism

00:15:49 in this life um so so we know that none of us are going to be completely sanctified in this life

00:15:54 we're all in varying degrees in varying areas going to wrestle with sin um but the difference

00:15:59 is um the intent in my mind that the difference is uh the will it's the will is god i never want

00:16:06 to sin again i never want to sin again and uh and does does that make sense with you you know

00:16:12 whereas whereas the abort the incrementalist uh pro-life person with abortion is actually the

00:16:18 intent and plan is actually um let's kill let's kill 500 babies and not 600 babies and that that 0.96

00:16:25 is the plan. I think, uh, you know, when we're talking about, um, an incrementalist kind of 0.95

00:16:31 pro-life person, you know, that may be what they're convinced is happening. Um, and there may

00:16:40 be some, some, there may be some, some honest ignorance there. Uh, the reality is, is when

00:16:45 you're at the state house and you're talking to legislators, you know, a legislator brings a bill

00:16:50 and uh you know we have abolition bills and the bills are there and they're they very much can

00:16:55 choose right now to abolish abortion to give equal protection but but instead they choose to ignore

00:17:03 it and choose the partiality and there's this conception that like somebody can be both right

00:17:09 like the like doug wilson and they call himself smash mouth incrementalism we want we want this

00:17:15 we want to have both like let's do abolition and let's have the incrementalism well the reality

00:17:19 is is that if you walk into every state house in the entire country there's not even maybe two or

00:17:24 three republican legislators that would ever fit that bill the reality is is that it's the

00:17:29 incrementalists who use the arguments of that crowd to justify their incrementalism with the

00:17:35 with accepting and not even doing abolition so what you end up running into is there's really

00:17:42 only two types of people there's the people who understand sin and justice and there's the people

00:17:46 who want to compromise right i do think jacob you've said this before but i i do think that

00:17:52 there is something to be said for i've noticed whether it be jeff durbin whether it be um you

00:17:57 know uh you know uh uh pierce bradley or whether you know you guys are you know the the guys in

00:18:04 the abolitionist camp what i've noticed is uh and then the guys who would be you know more

00:18:07 incrementalist but but we know our we know they're christian guys like we're not sitting here saying

00:18:12 that you know that the moscow crews we i i love right the moscow absolutely you know and so like

00:18:17 so i'm not talking about bart barber or something you know whatever i'm talking about like christians

00:18:21 you know solid christian men who love the lord and who who we would just we'd say but you're wrong

00:18:26 and you're seriously wrong on this issue but you are solid christian so if we're if we're saying

00:18:31 you know moscow crew versus uh jeff durbin crew you know and jacob miller and dusty deavers i've

00:18:36 notice one key difference. Hardly anybody's doing more in one side. If you think about it in one

00:18:44 sense for restoring a joy of biblical womanhood, right? And loving children, being a keeper at

00:18:54 home, loving your husband, wanting to have children, like Moscow's killing it on that end. 0.98

00:19:00 They're doing great. But I don't know hardly anybody except for abolitionists. And I keep 0.52

00:19:06 thinking of Durbin, you know, and Apologia guys that I've been building some relationship with

00:19:11 over the last couple of years, but those guys are on the sidewalk in front of the abortion mill,

00:19:16 right? And so like when it, you know, so when people start using victim kind of narratives,

00:19:20 or was she, you know, the mom doesn't know what she's doing, or she's just in a hard place.

00:19:24 The abolitionists disagree with that position because they're the ones seeing the blue-haired 0.88

00:19:28 feminist who's smiling at, you know, as she's taking, popping a pill, you know, on the courthouse 1.00

00:19:34 steps to kill. They love killing children. They're not victims. They love murder. And I've 1.00

00:19:41 noticed it's the guys who are presenting bills, like what you said, Jacob. So that's in front of

00:19:45 the mill. But then also in the courthouse, it's the guys who are presenting those bills and in

00:19:51 court and having those conversations and watching the pro-life industry and the way they shoot down

00:19:57 the bill, watching the ERLC send letters to it. But those are the guys I've noticed. It's the

00:20:03 abolitionists who are in the fray, um, who are, who are like, yeah, this is not innocent. These

00:20:10 people are not ignorant. They know exactly what they're doing and it's, and it's wicked. And I've 0.73

00:20:13 noticed that most of the people who are sympathetic with the incrementalist position, including my

00:20:18 past self, um, it's, it's because we didn't spend enough time on outside of an abortion mill,

00:20:25 seeing the women going in and seeing the response when we, when we preach to them,

00:20:29 the gospel and presenting bills and those kind of, you're not seeing the malice, the nefarious,

00:20:34 sinister. We're talking about wicked people. Would you guys agree with that?

00:20:40 For the most part, yeah, I would agree that there are a lot of wicked people who go with malice

00:20:47 of forethought and kill their children, whether they go to the abortion mill and pay a hitman,

00:20:55 an assassin, whether it's an accomplice who's taking them to the abortion mill, or whether

00:21:01 they're buying abortion pills online, planning, making that phone call, looking up who they

00:21:08 need to call, calling, talking to a doctor in Europe, and then that doctor in Europe

00:21:14 going ahead and calling in a prescription to a pharmacy in India, and then that woman

00:21:19 waiting for several days to go out to her mailbox and pick up those pills and then carry those pills 0.70

00:21:26 into her house through her the threshold of her door and go into her bedroom or her bathroom or

00:21:32 wherever she goes and she takes those pills with malice aforethought knowing exactly what she's

00:21:37 doing and then waiting and the first pill goes the mifeprex and then she waits a day or two 0.51

00:21:45 maybe three, and takes the second round of pills, misoprostol, and she kills her baby

00:21:54 with malice aforethought. There are those, the majority of women who are killing their children 1.00

00:22:00 are like that. Now, there are some who truly are victims in the sense, in the legal sense,

00:22:06 that they are coerced. They are under duress, life, and limb. There are some of those,

00:22:13 But the best protection for those kinds of women is a law that would protect the life of their child that would make abortion a homicide, a prenatal homicide, because if the pimp or the boyfriend forced her and she was under serious duress, then they would actually be treated as murderers. 1.00

00:22:39 And she would be protected from that, what she did. 0.83

00:22:44 And it would also help her conscience.

00:22:46 We talked to, I'm sure Jacob's the same. 0.89

00:22:48 There is a young lady in my church. 1.00

00:22:53 There are actually two ladies in my church who have had abortions. 0.82

00:22:57 And they've both said, if the law would have told me that this is murder,

00:23:02 if it would have taught me the pedagogical nature of the law,

00:23:06 If it would have taught me that this was murder, I would not have done it.

00:23:09 But it's the pro-life laws in each of these states that's telling people when, where, how they can kill their own children with malice aforethought, with legal immunity.

00:23:24 Can I just go ahead?

00:23:27 We call them regulatory bills.

00:23:28 I mean, that's and pro-lifers that defend them get get insulted like they get they call it they get insulted when we call it that like their regulation bills.

00:23:38 They regulate like like Dusty was saying, when, where, how to get an abortion, what tools you can use.

00:23:45 But that's when a doctor has to do it or when a woman has to do it and not get charged. 1.00

00:23:50 How do they find out how to do it? Well, they have to go to the law. 0.98

00:23:53 What does the law say?

00:23:55 Which tools can I use as a doctor?

00:23:57 How early do I have to do it?

00:23:59 What tool do I have to use? 0.76

00:24:00 That's their regulatory bills. 0.70

00:24:02 They're just regulating something.

00:24:04 And conservatives know that if you treat something like a product and you're regulating a service and a product, all that's going to happen is the market's going to rotate and move.

00:24:17 And so even this last year session when Texas had the heartbeat bill and then we had the trigger bill and we had all these bills.

00:24:26 It was the biggest punch that the regulation bills have ever taken in the history of Texas.

00:24:31 Well, turns out it didn't even stop more than six percent of the fifty five thousand babies that are slaughtered in Texas alone every year.

00:24:40 Not even six percent. I mean, a large percentage of those are going out of state.

00:24:45 And, you know, Texas only has jurisdiction over their state, but there's at least 19,000 that are still taking the abortion pill with malice and forethought on Texas soil.

00:24:57 Yeah. Can I say something towards those bills?

00:25:01 Joel, you brought up, I think, a good point to talk through earlier about sanctification happening in progress or by degree.

00:25:10 But the standard never changes. A guy who says, you know, I stopped committing adultery on my wife, but now I'm having trouble with my porn addiction.

00:25:22 He whenever he sins by looking at pornography, I don't think he ever says, well, God says it's OK for me to let myself off the hook.

00:25:33 He says that God's standard never changed because God didn't change.

00:25:40 And that repentance actually is that repentance unto life is that saving grace that he looks at the nature of his sin in light of the mercies of God.

00:25:52 And he turns from that sin unto God because the standard didn't change.

00:25:59 If the standard would have changed, it would have been a partial turning.

00:26:02 And God wouldn't accept that. So repentance is what you're you're looking for. And these laws then to then incrementalism in law would be to say, well, God's holy standard is changing and he will accept a partiality in our repentance.

00:26:22 Or he will accept us changing culture by degree, not because we're accepting that culture will change by degree, but because we are going to promote culture changing by degree.

00:26:38 There's a difference in saying we want to we're going to promote change by degree versus recognizing by nature we do change by degree because we're so sinful.

00:26:49 If we were more self-controlled and more disciplined, we wouldn't change by degree.

00:26:57 We would repent and not do it again, but that's the nature of it.

00:27:01 And that's what I was saying.

00:27:02 You're absolutely right.

00:27:03 That's what I was saying before is there's a difference between the plan and intent versus

00:27:08 what providentially plays out because of God's sovereignty over all things, including our

00:27:13 degrees of sanctification and, of course, our depravity and the fact that sin is pervasive.

00:27:19 and that sin, you know, it is a lifelong process of putting, you know, mortifying sin and putting

00:27:25 it to death. That said, like, I, you know, it's, it's funny because it's on one hand,

00:27:30 when, when we improve in any area, when we go from one degree of progressive righteousness to

00:27:37 another, right? For the, for the one who has faith in Jesus Christ and has been born again

00:27:41 by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone, their positional righteousness in terms 0.67

00:27:45 of justification, there are no degrees. A man is either wholly justified or wholly condemned.

00:27:49 So your perfect positional righteousness, justification, but in terms of progressive

00:27:54 righteousness, sanctification, again, it is, you know, it is this lifelong process.

00:27:58 It is degree by degree.

00:28:00 But again, it's, it's, it's the intent.

00:28:02 The plan is to be holy as he is holy.

00:28:04 The plan is the plan is never compromised.

00:28:08 The plan is Lord free me from my sin.

00:28:11 And, and when we, you know, I'm thinking about it, like whenever there is an improvement

00:28:15 in the realm of sanctification, on one hand, I do celebrate. I celebrate what the Lord has done.

00:28:22 I celebrate that I'm still a sinner, but by God's grace, I'm not the man I used to be,

00:28:28 right? I'm not the man I want to be, but I'm not the man I used to be. However, at the same time,

00:28:31 that celebration is not the only thing that I'm doing because Paul says in 2 Corinthians that

00:28:36 there is no repentance. What leads to repentance that leads to life is sorrow, a particular kind

00:28:42 of sorrow, namely godly sorrow, not worldly sorrow and mere regret, but godly sorrow that

00:28:47 leads to repentance. And without that repentance, there's not going to be sanctification and life.

00:28:52 And so whenever, by God's grace, I am progressively sanctified in this life, going from one degree of

00:28:59 holiness to a greater degree of holiness in terms of progressive righteousness, I do celebrate the

00:29:05 Lord's work in my life. But I also rightly recognize that it is not a completed work and

00:29:11 that there's still, although there is reason for celebration, there is still also in the very same

00:29:16 breath, much reason for sorrow, lamenting and having godly sorrow over the sin, which still

00:29:23 remains. And if there is no sorrow for the sin that still remains, then I'm not going to get

00:29:27 any better. I'll just be content. I'll just stop. Here would be one of the big differences.

00:29:33 you don't if you're struggling with a porn addiction you don't say to yourself I will

00:29:42 let myself look at pornography seven times this week and then next week I'm going to work on six

00:29:50 and then five and four and then I say this is the law for me the law for me is that seven times this

00:29:57 week and I write it down and I make a check mark every time I look at pornography seven okay I hit

00:30:02 seven times and I'm progressing in righteousness. So what you're actually doing is you're creating

00:30:07 a law that is wicked and defiled before God and saying, I don't need God in these seven times.

00:30:15 I don't need God. I'm willfully going to commit idolatry and show partiality towards the wicked

00:30:22 sin and really condemn the righteousness of God. And that's what these incremental bills are doing.

00:30:33 Let me read you the text. So it's the plan. It's the plan. It's the intent. That's what I'm saying.

00:30:39 It sounds like you're saying the very same thing, Dusty. It sounds like it's the plan. Like I'm

00:30:42 making a plan and I'm saying that this is going to be sufficient and pleasing to the Lord. It's

00:30:48 it's not God's law. I'm trying to move the immutable law of God, make compromise it,

00:30:53 make it less than what it really is. And God despises that. God hates that. So it's the plan.

00:30:59 Whereas if I fail, but my plan was perfection to be holy as he is holy, but I fail and I fail less

00:31:06 than the previous week, I can rejoice in the fact that there is improvement, still more in the sin

00:31:10 that remains. But the plan for that week was perfection. And the plan for next week is

00:31:14 perfection and the plan for right yeah and here's the big distinction let me let me read you the

00:31:20 texas heartbeat act here's the big distinction like i said uh with with the guy who's struggling

00:31:26 with pornography he's he sets a standard that's not god's holy standard and then he meets it and

00:31:31 he says i'm getting better well he is actually violating god's standard and committing idolatry

00:31:39 because he set another law.

00:31:41 He set a different means for justice.

00:31:43 And that's what all these bills are.

00:31:46 So think of it this way.

00:31:48 God's standard of justice is equal protection

00:31:51 under the law for all lives from fertilization inception.

00:31:55 In Texas, you've had a couple of those bills 0.98

00:31:58 that were for equal protection

00:32:00 put before the legislature, the legislation.

00:32:03 They rejected those and instead said,

00:32:06 we want the bill that compromises God's justice, like the Texas Heartbeat Act. In the Texas Heartbeat

00:32:13 Act, within the Texas Health and Safety Code 171.206B, it says this, the Texas Heartbeat Act

00:32:21 may not be construed to authorize the initiation of a cause of action against or the prosecution

00:32:27 of a woman on whom an abortion is performed or induced or attempted to be performed or

00:32:36 induced in violation of this chapter or this sub chapter. So the Texas heartbeat act not only said

00:32:42 that children that are under six weeks old are work. You can kill them under legal protection, 0.99

00:32:51 but it also said a mother who kills her own child with malice of forethought is, has legal immunity. 0.98

00:33:00 So you see, that's not God's standard. They had the opportunity to pass God's holy standard.

00:33:05 Instead, they said, no, we want a wicked, impartial bill that writes into code or into law the murder of pre-born children.

00:33:19 I was going to say, I'm with you 100%.

00:33:22 What sold me was equal, basically equal penalties means equal protection.

00:33:27 Equal protection means equal value.

00:33:30 you cannot say you cannot hold to the christian biblical view that the unborn person is just as

00:33:37 valuable like fully human you and and it even messes with the incarnation of christ that christ

00:33:42 was not fully human and fully god the god man there was nine months where where christ was

00:33:48 fully god but partly man partly human he was less than human in the womb from conception by the holy

00:33:54 spirit the virgin mary that was something less than man something so if we're going to actually

00:33:59 say that, um, that the unborn child is a full image bearer, the living God, then they have

00:34:04 equal dignity, equal worth, equal value. If they have equal value, they deserve the same measure

00:34:09 protections. And, and where do those protections come? Like what makes a life protected penalties

00:34:15 for the one who would attempt to take that life. So whatever the penalty is for, for, for taking a,

00:34:21 a, a five-year-old child to a hit man and shooting them in the head. If a, if a, if a mother did that, 0.97

00:34:28 whatever that penalty would be, that should be the penalty for the unborn child. And then we 0.69

00:34:33 would go further because it's not just whatever society determines that penalty would be. We can

00:34:37 also say with certainty what that penalty should be according to the law word of God and say that

00:34:42 it is a tooth for a tooth, eye for an eye, and life for a life. And that's not because the Bible

00:34:47 isn't pro-life in the right sense of the term. It is because the Bible heralds and esteems

00:34:54 so highly the sanctity of life that the only thing that you can do when taking a life to show how

00:35:00 valuable life is, is that if you take a life, you forfeit your own. And I appreciate what Gary North

00:35:06 says, Theonomist, on this particular topic. He says that the penalty, the law was always to

00:35:13 restitution, to make the person whole. But in the case of murder, there is no way to make the

00:35:18 offended party, the oppressed party whole, that family grieving the loss of a loved one. And so

00:35:25 in that case, it is not to say that the criminal was put to death and somehow that makes the grieving

00:35:32 family whole who has lost a loved one that this criminal murdered. It is that it's such a grievous

00:35:39 crime, murder, taking someone's life, that there is no way to make it whole here on earth. And so

00:35:45 what we must do is to immediately transfer that person to a higher court aka execution and send

00:35:52 them to god you know for for judgment and which you know so whether you like gary north or not

00:35:56 you know or rush doing or the but the point is like i i'm sold on uh yeah it's got to be equal

00:36:02 penalties to be equal protection to be eat to say that we actually think it's a life it's an equal

00:36:08 life anything less than that is not biblical and you're just kidding yourself when you say the

00:36:12 unborn child is just as much an image bearer of the living God as the born person. If you don't

00:36:17 hold the equal penalties, you don't believe that. So I'm 100% on board with that. And I'm 100% on

00:36:24 board with every bill that's presented, just like that's what I was talking about, the intent or the

00:36:28 plan. Every time we're trying to be sanctified and mortify sin by grace is we're saying holiness

00:36:33 is the standard. Holiness is the standard. So every bill needs to be holiness. What does God

00:36:38 say is holy murder is penalized with the death penalty i that i think that's right are you guys

00:36:46 so that i'm i'm so i guess my question though is but can we when something like that what would

00:36:53 you say to the christians who are like 100 i agree with you dusty i agree with you jacob

00:36:57 but uh i'm still really happy that roe got overturned because i'm i'm really happy that

00:37:02 roe got overturned and i understand statistically there's not a lot a lot of lies being saved but

00:37:07 I'm happy for a number of reasons

00:37:09 in the providence of God, you've got

00:37:11 this thing that was never law to begin with

00:37:13 but a bunch of people are hiding

00:37:15 pro-lifers hiding behind it, you know, and now we can

00:37:17 say, oh, where's that thing you were hiding behind

00:37:19 you can't do it anymore, like

00:37:21 you know what I mean, like what can we celebrate

00:37:23 I guess is my question, while still

00:37:25 holding to God's immutable standard

00:37:27 I mean, that's good

00:37:31 yeah, I mean

00:37:33 an abolitionist celebrates every life

00:37:35 that is saved

00:37:37 Um, we just don't believe that the, we need to celebrate the iniquitous decree that does it. We, we will celebrate, you know, like another beautiful baby born that's made in the image of God. We will, we will celebrate that every single time.

00:37:52 Um, but what happens is people equate the iniquitous law to, to, to be equal with the

00:38:02 babies that are actually becoming like, look, they're, they're doing evil.

00:38:06 So the good may come.

00:38:06 And we're saying, look at the evil thing.

00:38:08 Let's keep doing that.

00:38:10 Or maybe they're saying, let's not, maybe they're not saying, let's keep doing that,

00:38:14 but they are saying they are celebrating a step.

00:38:18 And so next week, it's going to be six times.

00:38:21 i commit adultery and next week it's going to be five times and uh i heard i heard uh an

00:38:27 abolitionist say this once i think it was russell hunter say that you know the thing about um the

00:38:33 thing about incrementalism is you can you can you can do as many increments as you want i mean you

00:38:39 can find you can do an increment a million million times because there will always be an increment

00:38:45 what you said to me jacob that was really challenging and you said it humbly like with

00:38:49 me as your pastor and you and the member of the church, but you challenged me, you know,

00:38:54 because I was like, well, I'm glad that we're getting closer. And the way you said it is this,

00:38:57 because it's not the best analogy, you know, the illustration we're saying adultery seven times,

00:39:01 six times, five times, because that assumes that, you know, in seven weeks we're done,

00:39:06 you know, which would be great. That's not happening with the pro-life establishment.

00:39:09 What you said, Jacob, you said is the incrementalist and the pro-life establishment,

00:39:14 um what they're committed to doing in actuality is is not seven six five four and getting to zero

00:39:20 it's splitting the penny a million ways it's indefinitely eternally forever splitting splitting

00:39:27 splitting splitting but there will always be room for murder their plan is not ever to really truly

00:39:34 entirely get rid of murder it is it is to corner murder but to always leave quarter right like so

00:39:40 no quarter November. It's to always leave quarter for murder. Always.

00:39:46 And I think that the other really important factor here is that when we think about bills

00:39:51 that are being written, they're not just ideas that exist in the air. There's a person behind

00:40:02 that, and that person behind that bill takes on a particular role. So Joel takes on the role of

00:40:10 pastor in some situations, and Joel also takes on the role of father in some situations, and there's

00:40:15 some people who take on the role of governing authority in some situations, and the governing

00:40:20 authorities have certain things in Scripture that speak to their realm of authority, and when the

00:40:26 Scripture speaks to them, they're in sin when they don't do it, or, you know, when it's a sin of

00:40:32 omission, or when they do do it when it's a sin of commission, obviously, and so in this case,

00:40:37 It would be that they're choosing to abandon the justice that they're called to live by.

00:40:43 Romans 13 gives them a role and a duty to bear the sword against evildoers.

00:40:51 And instead, they're justifying the wicked and condemning the righteous in a heartbeat bill.

00:40:55 They're justifying the woman who, for any reason whatsoever, can go do it, because that's what the heartbeat bill said that you heard Pastor Devers read. 0.63

00:41:06 and they're condemning the righteous that are before a heartbeat bill. 0.94

00:41:10 And Proverbs says that those are both alike in abomination.

00:41:15 So he has a role and a duty to carry out that role as our governing authority.

00:41:22 So the other thing that happens when we celebrate these types of bills

00:41:26 is that we celebrate him condemning the righteous and justifying the wicked. 1.00

00:41:31 And we want to scream and yell about LGBT abominations 1.00

00:41:35 and about all these other abominations. 1.00

00:41:37 But guess what?

00:41:38 Like this is on par or worse, depending on the situation.

00:41:43 So there is this kind of comes back to the initial distinctions that we were making.

00:41:50 In the pro-life establishment, they will never abolish abortion.

00:41:54 They might say they want to abolish abortion and they co-opt some of our language.

00:41:58 but to abolish abortion is to actually criminalize the act of prenatal homicide and hold all parties

00:42:07 culpable for that murder. They will never do that because they will always and only see that woman

00:42:15 as a victim. Now, Barber has said that in some way, he has conceded that in some way, the mother

00:42:24 is sometimes culpable morally but she is never culpable legally so she's a victim in that sense

00:42:34 of uh yeah i know it's it's i'm sorry dude i just the sbc just cracks me up i yeah because i remember

00:42:43 when they used to be christian but i it's just so funny they're like like because basically what

00:42:47 you're getting at is it we're talking about a major leader and the sbc that he he's willing

00:42:52 to concede that women might be sinners.

00:42:55 That's maybe, you know. 0.95

00:42:57 Yeah, it's like the unpardonable sin is to say 0.98

00:43:01 that a woman is capable of sinning, you know. 0.80

00:43:05 So then we infanticize women and say, well, you know, 0.99

00:43:09 maybe they're below the point of accountability. 0.68

00:43:14 I tweeted that a couple months ago.

00:43:15 I said as long, you can either have a society 0.99

00:43:17 that worships women or saves babies. 0.99

00:43:20 You can't have both. 0.73

00:43:21 you know, that's what it comes down to. Abortion, I think is the fruit of worshiping women. I think 1.00

00:43:26 it's goddess worship. Um, I, you know, and I think as long as we worship, not saying that men aren't

00:43:31 involved, I know we're involved, that men, men are, we're called to lead and we have abdicated

00:43:35 that authority. Men are, are absolutely morally culpable before God. Um, but I do think that

00:43:42 there is absolutely a direct, that's a real straight line that you can draw between feminism 1.00

00:43:47 and killing babies? Yeah. The pro-life establishment recognizes that abortion itself 1.00

00:43:55 is an act that can be performed by doctors or the pill industry, but it is not an act performed by

00:44:00 a mother. And that's a major distinction. The mother is a victim, even though she's killing

00:44:08 her child, she could be morally culpable, but she should never be legally culpable.

00:44:12 And that's why they will never abolish abortion, even though they say, like the ERLC says, that they want to create a culture of life that makes abortion illegal, unnecessary and unthinkable.

00:44:25 They will leave out that illegality for the mother.

00:44:29 It'll be illegal for the doctors and for the pill industry, but not the mother.

00:44:32 you're right yeah the irony of all that is that um how do you make it unthinkable and all these 0.71

00:44:39 other things without the gospel and how do you have the gospel for a woman if she's not guilty 0.76

00:44:45 if she's not a sinner how can there be grace and forgiveness and salvation you're right

00:44:48 so there's no culture change without the gospel proclamation there's no gospel proclamation that 0.91

00:44:55 applies without a woman being guilty of murder for this for this uh situation i like what you

00:45:02 said earlier, amen, Jacob. Great point. And I like what you said earlier, Dusty, kind of

00:45:06 throwing back like 15 minutes, 20 minutes now, but where you just talked about the law as a tutor,

00:45:12 that you had two individuals at your church, that part of the reason why their conscience was

00:45:17 assuaged in regards to, in the past, getting abortion. We're not saying there's forgiveness

00:45:23 for murderers. There's forgiveness for sodomites. There's forgiveness for all kinds of kidnappers

00:45:29 and slavers, there's forgiveness all around. But the condition is repentance. The condition is

00:45:35 faith and repentance. You know, I like R.C. Spole, you know, he said, people always say God's love

00:45:40 is unconditional. Unconditional love of God, unconditional love of God. He said, well, if it's

00:45:43 so unconditional, why does God set the condition to repent? And we believe as good Calvinists that

00:45:49 God, you know, there is a condition of faith and repentance and God meets those conditions. That's

00:45:54 what makes the new covenant so amazing that in his sovereignty, God actually grants faith and

00:45:59 repentance as gifts, but they must be present. They must be there. And so all that being said,

00:46:05 the law is that, well, that's another gift, but the law is a tutor. And we have the law of God

00:46:09 written on our hearts, not just as Christians, but all people, right? That's Romans one, Romans two,

00:46:14 the Gentiles, pagan nations that never received a single ounce of special revelation, not an ounce 0.99

00:46:20 of scripture or preacher and evangelist, their own conscience testifies against them. And 0.96

00:46:25 essentially Paul's saying, if you can't even meet your own standard, what makes you think that

00:46:30 you're going to meet God? So you stand condemned. Natural revelation is sufficient, not to say,

00:46:36 but to condemn all mankind, the unbeliever, you know, who doesn't, has never heard the gospel 1.00

00:46:41 or anything like that. And, but one of the things, it's a grace of God and the second use of God's

00:46:46 law. It's a grace of God when a society as a whole takes that law of God that's written on

00:46:51 each individual heart, including the unbeliever, and works it into legislative law for the society

00:46:56 as a whole. It says that thing that you know in your heart of hearts, in your conscience, 0.67

00:47:01 we're going to make that the law of the land in a formal capacity. But when the law of the land

00:47:07 says this is wrong, if you kill a child in the womb after eight weeks, after 16 weeks, 0.97

00:47:14 after six weeks, or you kill them in this way. You have a doctor's appointment and they use 0.55

00:47:19 instruments inside of you. But if you do it at this time with this way, this pill over here,

00:47:25 and you do it over there, then there is no penalty. Essentially, the law as a tutor is

00:47:32 discipling. The law disciples us. The law is discipling women and saying, this is not sin.

00:47:39 There's nothing to feel sorry for. There is no guilt. Therefore, no need of repentance. Therefore, 0.73

00:47:44 no need of salvation. And that, and I think when Christians present a law like that, what you guys 1.00

00:47:49 are saying, again, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying a Christian cannot, no person can,

00:47:54 but a Christian certainly cannot present a law that comes in as a substitute teacher. Imagine, 0.82

00:48:00 you know, who's going to teach people that two plus two is five to children. It's going to tutor

00:48:05 them incorrectly. And then they're going to take a test one day and be judged on it. And he is,

00:48:10 He is intentionally teaching them wrong curriculum, falsities as though they are truth, to set

00:48:18 them up to fail the ultimate test when they stand one day before God, that that is, not 0.92

00:48:23 only does it kill babies, but it damns women, right? 1.00

00:48:27 Yeah, yeah. 1.00

00:48:28 So, I mean, you're right.

00:48:30 The law should, the law that's written on the heart and the law of the land should coincide

00:48:36 perfectly.

00:48:37 And whenever they don't, whenever we actually write a law that says you can do what God

00:48:43 demands you must not do, like let's take the sixth commandment, you shall not murder.

00:48:48 And then we write a pro-life law that says you shall not murder children that are over

00:48:53 six weeks old.

00:48:56 But we're not going to say anything about you murdering them ones that are under six 1.00

00:49:00 weeks, or we say abortion is, is illegal, but a mother can kill her child by pill with impunity, 0.63

00:49:09 and she will be part, not even have to be pardoned. She'll be not recognized as having done

00:49:16 really anything under the law. As soon as we cause a bifurcation or we break the law that's 0.97

00:49:25 written on the heart away from the law of God, we are the ones who are usurping the sovereignty

00:49:32 of God, his authority, and his lordship over the conscience. If Christians would write laws that 0.96

00:49:39 say, you don't have to listen to the Lord of your conscience, you can listen to this law,

00:49:46 then we become God. And we are telling people, you should worship God in our way. And that's

00:49:52 unacceptable. It's the violation of the conscience. The violation of the conscience, Dusty, I hadn't

00:49:58 thought about it in those terms, but that's absolutely, that's just one more. So, I mean,

00:50:02 obviously it's babies are going to die. Women are going to be damned because they're told they're 1.00

00:50:06 not sinners, but the violation of the conscience is another factor that I didn't consider. That's 0.98

00:50:10 good. Yeah. They're laying these stumbling blocks before these young women or others,

00:50:16 laying these stumbling blocks in front of them and saying, it's okay to sin against God and offer

00:50:21 him profane worship, even though your conscience is telling you otherwise, because they're saying

00:50:26 we're more important to you than your conscience and the God of your conscience. So you brought up

00:50:32 a really good point that the law drives us to Christ. And then whenever we come to Christ,

00:50:40 the gospel then tells us, it sends us back to the law, the law that's in the hand of Christ.

00:50:48 it sends us back to the law, the third use, and it says, these are the good works that you should

00:50:53 perform. So the laws of our land actually should tell the women the good works that they should 0.97

00:50:59 perform and the good works and the works that are evil works that they should never perform. 1.00

00:51:05 So protecting your child is a fulfillment of the sixth command, but killing your child

00:51:12 is a violation of the sixth command.

00:51:16 So the good work would be to protect your child. 1.00

00:51:21 The evil work would be to kill your child. 0.99

00:51:23 And the laws of our land should tell them 0.99

00:51:26 what those good works are.

00:51:28 Amen.

00:51:29 All right, Jacob, let's do this.

00:51:30 As we're starting to land the plane,

00:51:32 you and I have been talking offline,

00:51:33 you've been kind of just,

00:51:36 well, you've been, you know,

00:51:38 your typical abolitionist.

00:51:40 The typical abolitionist on our men's thread

00:51:42 with our church it's like every day jacob is just boom and he's and he's great about it he's like i

00:51:47 know guys like i don't even show up to all these events it's you know it's it's ridiculous but this

00:51:51 matters it's a really really big deal but let's get real particular because i i've got a feeling

00:51:55 we've got some people who are already on board i know there are a lot of people that listen our

00:51:59 channel that are abolitionists and then i got by god's grace i hope some people have been won over

00:52:03 by this point in our conversation wow you guys are making a good point that's biblical that's

00:52:07 true. I want to be on board. So what are some practical, what can we practically do? Especially

00:52:11 we've got a lot of listeners, Jacob and Dusty that are here in Texas. And so I'd love to hear

00:52:17 from you, Jacob. And then we've got listeners in Oklahoma. So maybe we can land the plane by

00:52:21 Jacob, you talk, Dusty, you talk and tell us with, with bills right now on the ground,

00:52:26 who can we call? Who can we write to? What do we do? Yeah. So in Texas for four straight sessions,

00:52:33 Now, we only have a legislative session once every two years.

00:52:37 So if they choose to not abolish abortion for a session, they sacrifice that 19,000 children for two years.

00:52:44 That's 38,000 children.

00:52:47 So the way that a bill works is a bill is filed and then it gets assigned to a committee.

00:52:52 And in those committees, the chair of the committee, and this is just Texas politics.

00:52:56 It's a little different in Oklahoma. But in Texas, the chair of the committee has sole authority on whether he can bring the bill to a hearing.

00:53:05 And then even after that, he has sole authority on whether he can even bring it to a vote.

00:53:10 So he has all that power. So we have two bills.

00:53:15 We have the abolition bill in the House and then we have the abolition bill in the Senate right now, an equal protection bill.

00:53:22 So in the Senate, the Speaker of the House has been fighting off a lot of Republican grassroots who are trying to tell him to not ban Democrat chairs.

00:53:33 And one of the reasons why is because Democrat chairs get the power to kill bills completely.

00:53:38 Wait, hold on. So you're saying Republicans in Texas have been encouraging the Speaker of the House in Texas to not get rid of Democrat chairs because we need at least some Democrat chairs to be the head of these committees.

00:53:51 Maybe I misspoke the other way around.

00:53:53 Okay, say it again.

00:53:54 Start over.

00:53:55 Say it again.

00:53:55 Yeah, so the Republican grassroots is telling the Speaker to not put Democrat chairs in place.

00:54:03 So we're already past that, right?

00:54:05 There's a place during the session where they can write rules about how you can do or not do things.

00:54:11 Anyways, he opposed the opposition to that.

00:54:16 And ironically enough, he placed our bill in one of the few committees that has a Democrat chair.

00:54:26 So immediately it's gone.

00:54:29 So immediately it's gone.

00:54:30 Well, there's some things that can be done.

00:54:32 For example, if you can call the speaker and he can reassign it to a different committee.

00:54:38 His number is 512-463-1000.

00:54:44 That's his capital office.

00:54:45 what's his name

00:54:47 his name is Dade Phelan

00:54:49 that's P-H-E-L-A-N

00:54:52 Dade Phelan

00:54:52 and you're going to hear

00:54:55 things that

00:54:56 there's objections and stuff

00:54:58 if you ever hear any of that

00:55:00 you can

00:55:01 contact Abolish Abortion Texas

00:55:04 through emails or Twitter

00:55:07 or whatever else and they can help you with the objections

00:55:09 so that's

00:55:11 kind of the only action there because

00:55:13 there's no way the Democrat chair is going to

00:55:15 not kill the bill. In the Senate, this is the first year that we've ever had a Senate bill.

00:55:21 And they sent it to the State Affairs Committee. The chair of the State Affairs Committee was the

00:55:27 guy who authored the heartbeat bill last session. His name is Brian Hughes, and his number is 512-463-0101.

00:55:38 And the same thing, just ask him to give it a hearing. That's all we're doing.

00:55:41 We're just asking him, give SB-2198 a hearing.

00:55:48 That's it.

00:55:50 Great.

00:55:50 Dusty?

00:55:51 So, yeah, in Texas on April 1st down at the Capitol in Austin is a rally.

00:55:59 I don't know if – you know about that, right, Jacob?

00:56:02 Yeah, yeah, the rally.

00:56:04 Yes.

00:56:05 We'll look at the information about that.

00:56:06 You can talk about it a little bit.

00:56:07 Guys can go to that.

00:56:09 But I was invited to come speak at it, but I am not able to make it for various reasons.

00:56:16 But I would encourage folks to go down there and see what's going on.

00:56:21 In general, when we think about action, actionables, we should think in spheres and

00:56:28 order a more a ordering your loves.

00:56:31 So that means there's a proximal way to take action.

00:56:36 And that proximal action is first, you think in the sphere of your home, in your own family, and then your relatives, who can I talk to to share what the difference is and what it truly would mean to extend the love of God towards my preborn neighbors to fulfill the second greatest commandment would be to treat my neighbor as I would want to be treated.

00:57:02 And that's to fulfill the royal law, to love my neighbor as myself and to treat them as though I would want to be treated.

00:57:09 To do that, I must demand their equal protection under law.

00:57:14 So tell your tell your family and then you can go to your church and you can start talking to them.

00:57:20 And then you can go and talk to your civil leaders or the folks at your work.

00:57:24 And some of the very helpful resources for that is the Rescue Those app.

00:57:29 Rescue those.

00:57:30 Just look it up on your app store, whether that's Google or your Apple app store.

00:57:36 Rescue those app.

00:57:38 There's a whole lot of resources there.

00:57:40 You can go onto YouTube and look up A Storm Comes Rolling Down the Plain.

00:57:46 A Storm Comes Rolling Down the Plain.

00:57:47 That's a documentary that myself and a couple of other folks wrote and produced. 0.73

00:57:53 It will be very helpful to helpful to show you the distinctions between the pro-life establishment and how they approach the issue of life and this modern Holocaust of abortion that's 10 times greater than that of of Hitler's.

00:58:08 Uh, and then, uh, you can, you can really, an important thing is you can go to, if there

00:58:17 are mills in your state, abortion mills, then you can go on the sidewalks.

00:58:22 You can talk, reach out to somebody, whether that's Abolish Abortion Texas or, or someone

00:58:27 through Rescue Those, or there's other groups, reach out and see, you can look on our app

00:58:33 and search your area and it will tell you where the abortion mills are.

00:58:38 but find someone to go with yeah the it was so it was april 1st at 10 30 that's when it is

00:58:45 saturday april 1st at 10 30 uh sorry to interrupt but i also just wanted to firmly second the app

00:58:51 the app is incredible if anybody it has their interest peaked on any of this uh the app has

00:58:59 like almost every abolitionist resource in existence there and even lists upcoming abolitionist

00:59:05 events on there. I mean, they put a lot of hard work and dedication into putting really, really

00:59:12 good, helpful resources and thinking through this stuff. So I just wanted to second the app

00:59:17 and then mention that the rallies on Saturday, April 1st at 1030 at the Capitol.

00:59:23 Yeah. And folks need to educate themselves as well. It's a lot to take in initially. And so

00:59:31 that app will provide talks and sermons. Uh, it'll also, you can look at booklets that, that will

00:59:38 educate you on, am I an abolitionist? What does it mean to rescue those that are being led off to

00:59:42 slaughter? Uh, I wrote a booklet on in vitro fertilization and so-called ethical in vitro

00:59:48 fertilization. Uh, I'm hoping to produce a booklet in the next month or so, uh, on abortifacient

00:59:55 birth control and abortion pills. There's been several updates in the law, so that will be

01:00:00 coming as well. Great. I've done an episode on the hormonal birth control pill, and I've also

01:00:08 had Cali on, and we did one in vitro. And so I've done some of that on our channel, trying to

01:00:14 address that as well, because that's just another area where I think a lot of Christians, not 1.00

01:00:18 necessarily malicious, but just ignorant. People don't talk about it. And just lastly, 1.00

01:00:25 you can go and preach the gospel at these abortion mills or on campuses or around public spaces. And 0.54

01:00:34 one of the things that we do at the abortion mill is we do three things. We preach the gospel.

01:00:38 We plead with these women not to murder their children. And if they won't do that, either way,

01:00:44 we provide real help to them, whether that's adoption of their children or any medical or

01:00:51 physical needs that they might have. We want to see that baby rescued from being taken to slaughter.

01:00:57 And you can talk to your legislator and tell them this is what God's word says. You shall not murder

01:01:04 and you need to love your neighbor as yourself and give them equal protection under the law.

01:01:10 That is a life. And if you're a Christian, you affirm that and you know it. Very simple

01:01:17 conversations with them, but they need to know those things from us.

01:01:21 Right. Amen. All right, Jacob, any final word from you?

01:01:25 No, that's it. Thank you.

01:01:26 That's good. All right, guys, thanks so much for coming on the show. And for everybody listening,

01:01:30 I hope that you've been challenged by this. We want to do justice. We want to, I mean,

01:01:34 the name of our show is Theology Applied. We don't want to just talk about theology in the abstract.

01:01:39 We don't just want to talk about Jesus ruling and reigning in the 17th dimension somewhere

01:01:43 out there.

01:01:44 We believe that Jesus is king now and that Jesus is king here, all authority on earth

01:01:49 and in heaven, and that Jesus, King Jesus, has a law, and it's not something that we

01:01:54 get to make up as we go along, and that law should be righteously and justly applied with

01:02:00 equal weights and equal measures across the board for all.

01:02:04 And so I hope that you guys have been challenged.

01:02:06 Check out the app.

01:02:07 Check out the resources that have been cited.

01:02:09 Check out the documentary.

01:02:11 If you're available, go to the Capitol and join the rally.

01:02:15 A lot of good takeaways from this.

01:02:16 You might need to rewind and listen to the dates of everything and the name of the app.

01:02:22 What was, one more time, the name of the documentary that you said, Dusty?

01:02:25 A Storm Comes Rolling Down the Plain.

01:02:28 Cool.

01:02:28 Yeah, I want to check that out.

01:02:29 Thanks, guys, for tuning in.

01:02:31 Thank you, Jacob and Dusty, for joining us.

01:02:33 I appreciate it.

01:02:35 Thank you, Joe.

01:02:36 Can I be frank with you for just a second right here at the end?

01:02:39 look some of you guys you're financially supporting this ministry and from the bottom of my heart i say

01:02:45 thank you i cannot thank you enough however some of you you just you can't afford it in fact some

01:02:53 of you you shouldn't afford it let's be honest i mean we're living in joe biden's ridiculous economy

01:03:00 our nation and our totalitarian political elites lost their minds over the last three years due

01:03:09 to COVID. We have written checks that we simply cannot cash. It doesn't matter if people change

01:03:16 the definition of a recession. We are living in a recession right now regardless. Some of you are

01:03:23 struggling to afford a carton of eggs at the grocery store. You cannot support financially

01:03:29 this ministry at this time, nor should you, but you could still help us tremendously. I am asking

01:03:36 you, please, if you're willing to do so, take one minute of your time. Leave us a five-star review

01:03:43 on your favorite podcast platform, iTunes, Spotify, whatever that might be. This is the way the system

01:03:50 works. We want to be innocent as doves, but shrewd as vipers. We need to be strategic. You leave us a

01:03:58 five-star review, and our podcast shows up for more people. And the Word of God and courageous

01:04:04 theology applied in practical ways to every realm of life gets out there.

01:04:11 Help us get it out there.

01:04:13 Thanks for tuning in.

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The NXR Podcast - March 28, 2023

THEOLOGY APPLIED - Ending Abortion ｜ Incrementalism Vs. Abolitionism ｜ with Dusty Deevers and Jacob Miller

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