The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Health Mandates, Tucker Carlson, & Nicki Minaj

00:00:00.000 Hi, this is Pastor Joel Webin with Right Response Ministries, and you're listening to another

00:00:04.120 episode of Theology Applied. In this episode, I was privileged to have as a special guest,

00:00:09.880 Constance Troutman from Truth and Fire podcast on the Bar Network. We talked about fake vaccine 0.95

00:00:15.820 passports. We talked about Tucker Carlson. We talked about Nicki Minaj, and we talked about

00:00:21.600 how to keep your courage as a Christian in this crazy world. Hope you enjoy.

00:00:27.340 Applying God's word to every aspect of life.

00:00:30.720 This is Theology Applied.

00:00:39.220 All right, welcome to another episode of Theology Applied.

00:00:42.260 And as I've already mentioned, I'm privileged to have as a special guest, Constance Troutman,

00:00:46.880 Constance Troutman with Truth and Fire.

00:00:49.880 She's on the Bar podcast with Dwayne Atkinson.

00:00:54.840 Is that correct?

00:00:55.360 Yes, yes.

00:00:56.060 Dwayne Atkinson. And then you guys are probably familiar with the Just Thinking podcast,

00:01:00.360 Daryl Harrison and Virgil Walker. We've had them on the show before. So without further ado,

00:01:04.860 Constance, thanks for joining us. And could you go ahead and just tell our listeners a little bit

00:01:08.440 about you and your ministry? Of course. Thank you so much for having me, first of all.

00:01:13.680 Yes, I am Constance Troutman. I'm a blogger and podcast host over at truthandfire.com.

00:01:19.640 I'm originally from Atlanta, Georgia, now reside in Washington, D.C.

00:01:23.460 and I've been um doing truth and fire for excuse me at least the last five no six years six years

00:01:29.840 actually I started the blog in 2016 just wanting to um have a space to articulate my faith and just

00:01:36.460 to kind of encourage new believers in living for Christ in the society that basically tells us that

00:01:41.200 it's not cool or um well you know if they just you know want to misunderstand us or they uh uh

00:01:48.960 want to quote unquote hate on us because of our faith. Um, it's definitely evolved since then.

00:01:54.240 Um, especially since I've grown in my own faith, but, um, yeah, so just more so starting it as a

00:01:59.140 safe space to articulate and share my faith. So yeah. A safe space, no trigger warnings,

00:02:05.500 no safe spaces. I hear you. That's great. Why space now, as, as I began to grow in my understanding

00:02:12.920 of scripture, it was no longer a safe space. Trust me. Right. Amen. Yeah. So I, you know,

00:02:18.960 know, I first came, I told you right before we started recording, my wife actually turned me on

00:02:22.980 to your podcast and she said, Hey, you should have Constance and she's a part of the bar. And so

00:02:27.440 immediately there was credibility. Cause I know, I know the just thinking guys. And, and so I was

00:02:31.760 like, all right, she's probably good. And so I went ahead and listened, you know, I was like,

00:02:34.740 all right, which I want to listen to at least one of her podcasts. And the one that I selected that

00:02:39.020 I thought was fantastic was it was a repeat. I think you reposted it. You were saying, Hey,

00:02:43.740 this was from last year and anytime you can, you know, cause, well, I mean, for one, right.

00:02:50.260 And so in natural revelation, God is, you know, special revelation doesn't change. The Bible

00:02:53.820 doesn't change. The word of God is eternal in natural revelation. Providentially, even natural

00:02:58.260 revelation doesn't change. The sun rises. It's been doing it for a very long time. And so we

00:03:01.940 see the glory of God by what he has made. And the message of God doesn't change in the scripture

00:03:07.400 certainly, but not even through natural revelation. However, providentially there are things that come

00:03:12.400 about that change our opinions, right? We come into more data. We come into more facts. There

00:03:16.240 are new events and circumstances. Um, and so we changed in that regard. And then we're also

00:03:21.080 changing because we're finite and fallen. And so we're coming, you know, reformed and always

00:03:25.580 reforming Semper Reformando. And so we, we were, we're growing, we're being sanctified. Um, so

00:03:30.600 that caveat being what it is, I still think there's a lot to be said when somebody's able,

00:03:35.600 especially with, with a podcast to look back a year prior and say, yeah, I still believe all

00:03:41.800 those things. And when it can stand the test of time and especially, you know, used to, it was

00:03:46.540 like, Hey, I, you know, maybe my stuff will hold from 10 years ago. But right now it seems like

00:03:51.180 the current events of our day are changing so quickly that it just, it just feels like it's

00:03:56.200 changing by the week. And so if you have something from a year ago, especially related to COVID,

00:04:00.680 which is what you did, and it still rings true, color me impressed. So anyway, so I'm very honored

00:04:07.580 to have you on the show. And so without wasting any more time, let's just hop right into it. So

00:04:11.700 here's the first question that I got for you. Is it necessary for Christians to get the vaccine 0.99

00:04:16.060 in order to love their neighbor? Everybody's saying it's loving your neighbor, loving your

00:04:20.440 neighbor. Constance, what do you think about that? I do not agree with that. I do not believe

00:04:25.660 it's necessary for one to get the vaccine to love their neighbor. Without, I guess, judging someone's

00:04:32.540 motives for getting vaccinated, I can respect someone sincerely being convicted that, you know,

00:04:39.140 based on what they were told from Dr. Fauci to CDC, I can respect someone with limited knowledge

00:04:45.860 or maybe about almost a year, well, it was September now. So maybe we'll say the top of

00:04:54.400 the year. I can understand someone making that decision to get vaccinated, believing that they

00:04:58.700 were sincerely going to be protecting someone else. But that logic that is necessary to get

00:05:07.280 vaccinated to love their neighbor? That doesn't really make a lot of sense to me because is it

00:05:11.240 necessary for me to wear a coat to love my neighbor? I mean, if someone wants to warp the

00:05:18.800 logic, the line of reason, then I guess they could say, well, yeah, well, you know, if I put on a

00:05:23.540 coat, then I won't get cold and catch a cold and I won't then get sick. And then I won't spread the

00:05:27.860 germs to my neck. I mean, sure, we can do that. We can do some mind bending there. But the reality

00:05:32.840 though, is that these vaccines are leaky. They do not protect anyone, not even the individuals who

00:05:39.460 received the vaccine. So, um, I, I saw that, I saw that argument come out very early on. I wasn't

00:05:46.300 into it. I wasn't buying it because it still felt, um, like a way for, you know, Satan to twist the

00:05:53.340 truth in order to coerce or to, to bind someone's conscience. Because we know that a lot of

00:05:58.640 believers who are not choosing to be vaccinated are doing so for, um, what they sincerely believe

00:06:04.700 are reasons that would go against, um, um, their convictions, um, for God, whether it's dealing

00:06:11.000 with how they're manufactured or how they're tested, um, how they're developed, whatever the

00:06:15.660 case may be. Um, so I don't, I didn't see that line of reasoning really making a lot of sense,

00:06:20.420 but the reality is that right now, all of the quote unquote experts have made it very clear

00:06:25.220 that these vaccines don't protect anyone people who are vaccinated can get infected people who

00:06:30.240 are vaccinated can spread the infection um and then at this point they're they it's like they're

00:06:35.900 we know these things from the beginning but then they come out and eventually have to catch up and

00:06:40.420 go oh yeah and also the efficacy of the vaccines you know it's waning and so yeah so i'm not i'm

00:06:47.020 not that i still i've seen some churches that have that sentiment on their um marquee boards

00:06:53.500 outside of their churches, I guess I said what they're called. I'm not sure. I've seen that.

00:06:58.860 And I just feel like that's such a, it's such a farce and it's such a perverted way of binding

00:07:05.000 or attempting to bind someone's conscience. So I don't, I don't, I completely agree. I think

00:07:09.720 there's also problems. I completely agree with everything you said. And for me, it's like,

00:07:13.680 all right, there's two lines of logic that we've heard, two narratives. And in both cases, it's,

00:07:18.700 it's not, not only is it not loving your neighbor, it has nothing to do with your neighbor.

00:07:22.880 so the first line of reasoning is like let's say that you know the data still hasn't come out and

00:07:27.980 as far as we're concerned it's the most efficacious vaccine in the history of all vaccines you know

00:07:33.360 and the god of vaccines you know what and so if you go with that line of reasoning the vaccine

00:07:37.620 it works it's it's invulnerable it's invincible it's impenetrable all those kinds of things

00:07:42.760 well then by that logic then again all you're really doing by getting the vaccine is protecting

00:07:48.040 yourself and so long as it's been it's not protecting your neighbor now you can say like

00:07:52.400 like what you said, that line of reasoning, you know, um, you can say, well, but if I have the

00:07:56.140 vaccine, then I'm not going to get the virus. And if I don't get the virus, then I'm not going to

00:07:58.920 spread it to others. But here's the big monkey wrench in the gears. Um, if, if you're saying

00:08:04.460 that the vaccine is available to anyone who wants it, then it becomes incumbent upon each individual.

00:08:11.180 So it's an every man for himself kind of thing. And not because we're being selfish, um, but

00:08:15.360 because that's just the logic of the matter. So if you're concerned about the virus, then you go

00:08:21.420 and get the vaccine. So this idea of getting a vaccine to protect someone else is just a

00:08:26.160 completely foreign concept. We've never thought about vaccines. I've never thought like, I'm

00:08:31.020 going to get my kids, you know, the vaccine for polio so that my neighbor's kids don't wind up

00:08:35.340 in a wheelchair. That's no, it's, it's my neighbor. If he wants his kids to be vaccinated

00:08:40.740 from polio, right? So each person is getting, cause it's a defense. It's not, it's not giving

00:08:45.820 a loaf of bread to somebody else and feeding them or nourishing them. It's a shield.

00:08:51.420 protects you right and exactly it ties back to the irony of it all is while they're calling those

00:08:58.400 who who i don't want to say refuse but those who do not desire to be vaccinated selfish they

00:09:04.180 themselves are practicing selfishness and we know that ultimately this boils down i i never bothered

00:09:10.280 someone for for deciding to become vaccinated i i probably said a few things online that i probably

00:09:15.740 should not have said out of out of just frustration because I began to see the rhetoric rise where

00:09:22.800 they're you know blaming the unvaccinated for certain things and I'm thinking let's just be

00:09:27.320 real you only got vaccinated because you want to get on a plane you want to travel you want to go

00:09:31.640 to the bar you want to go wherever so let's just be honest and then I mean the reality is that

00:09:36.660 there's a real fear I think the episode that you were speaking about earlier came from a series

00:09:41.540 called Are We Cowards? And in that series, I'm just talking about how the church is responding

00:09:47.180 in the way that the lost would respond when things came down the pike. And my thought is

00:09:53.180 that at the end of the day, like you said, even if this was the God of all vaccines, at the end

00:09:58.320 of the day, we are created by the God of all gods. And so I trust in his wisdom and how he designed

00:10:05.420 our bodies. We're fallen, yes. And so there will be situations where the immune system is not going

00:10:11.480 to be perfect of course especially for those who are older who are immunocompromised but I had no

00:10:17.480 reason to rely on the vaccine for COVID I mean who knows depending on what the what the disease

00:10:25.220 is maybe it could change if it was like a flesh-eating virus that as soon as someone looked

00:10:30.360 at you your face started to peel off then okay yeah give me give me the vaccine whatever but

00:10:34.440 this isn't that at all and it was very clear from the very beginning that this this wasn't that and

00:10:40.440 And so, but I was afraid, I think they saw what happened in China, the way that they covered, in my opinion, they overreacted.

00:10:49.200 But we have to remember, like, consider the source. China is a mostly, there is a communist society.

00:10:58.120 Sorry, I turned my alarm off. It's a communist society. They have, they're mostly either atheists or Buddhists.

00:11:04.640 They don't have Christ. And so, of course, they're going to react that way. 0.99

00:11:09.300 And I think we saw those images and we began to liken COVID to a flesh eating virus.

00:11:16.460 And then those in the world in the world who have no hope just kind of, you know, responded in, you know, overreacted, I guess I should say.

00:11:24.840 Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah, there's just a lot of fear, a lot of fear in society.

00:11:29.440 And sadly, there's a lot of fear in churches, even now a year and a half later.

00:11:33.680 right the the 500 days to slow the spread but uh hebrews 2 verses 14 through 15 hebrews 2 verses

00:11:40.780 14 through 15 says this since therefore the children share in flesh and blood he himself

00:11:45.680 being christ likewise partook of the same things that through death he might destroy the one who

00:11:50.820 has the power of death that is the devil and deliver all those who through fear of death were

00:11:56.920 subject to lifelong slavery. And so my Bible tells me that Jesus Christ, the second person

00:12:04.020 of the eternal Trinity, he took on flesh in real history, right? So, you know, the 1689 confession

00:12:10.940 says that God is the most pure spirit without body parts and passion. Well, Jesus, the second

00:12:15.600 member of the Trinity is also like the father. He was a most pure spirit without body parts and

00:12:20.820 passions until 2000 years ago, when he took on flesh, he took on a body and he did so, um, well

00:12:27.580 to fulfill prophecy, biblical prophecy, uh, multiple reasons, but chiefly he did so, so that

00:12:32.980 in taking on flesh, he might actually give himself up for his flesh to be brutally, uh, ripped and

00:12:39.960 torn apart, uh, to die on the cross for our sins. And so he took on flesh so that he could die and

00:12:45.920 by virtue of his death that he could conquer the one who has power over death that is the devil

00:12:51.780 and free the human race from a lifelong slavery to the fear of death and so I keep thinking you

00:12:59.040 know when you see I mean it's really it's just the democratic party it's the playbook that they've

00:13:04.060 used for decades but it's the boogeyman right so how do you cram through an incredibly progressive

00:13:09.480 agenda which you know when you have all these pesky individual rights and liberties in a

00:13:14.980 constitution that keep getting in your way. Well, ultimately what you have to do is you have to

00:13:18.800 take away people's freedom, right? You have to make people slaves. Well, how do you make people

00:13:22.920 slaves? How do you get them to trade in their freedom? Well, people will trade. We've seen

00:13:26.920 this throughout history and we're seeing it in the last 18 months. People will trade individual

00:13:31.220 freedom for public safety. Now, now, but to get them to say, I want public safety so bad,

00:13:37.800 I'll give away my individual rights. You have to have some kind of fear of death. You have to have

00:13:43.260 a threat. You have to have the boogeyman. And so for that to work, my point is for that to work on

00:13:48.680 the world, for that to work on the pagan, for the unbeliever, for the person who is lost in this 0.77

00:13:54.060 world, who is without Christ makes perfect sense. But for that to work on the church that's supposed

00:13:59.680 to be, the church is supposed to be the blood bought people of the Lord who have already been

00:14:05.780 freed by Christ through his death from slavery to the fear of death. And so if you think of it like

00:14:11.640 this. There are slaves in the world and the chains, the shackles that are holding them in bondage

00:14:17.720 is fear of death. Well, for Christians, Christ by his death conquered the one who has power over 0.63

00:14:25.440 death and freed us from the fear of death so that we could no longer be slaves. And when you think

00:14:31.820 of slavery, you know, it's like every time there's an edict from the white house, every time, you

00:14:36.460 know, Dr. Fauci talks, you know, every time that CDC has a new report, it's constant submission,

00:14:42.700 constant obedience, constant complying. It's the kind of behavior you would expect to see from a

00:14:48.700 slave. But again, the problem is why do we see it in the church? These are supposed to be people who

00:14:54.020 are not afraid of death and a person who's not afraid of death, who doesn't seek to keep his

00:14:58.960 life, but is willing to lose his life, you know, for my sake and for the gospel so that he might

00:15:03.520 actually find his life. That kind of person, a free man is a brave man, right? Like the land of

00:15:10.100 the free, home of the brave, right? America is certainly not the land of the free and it's

00:15:14.600 certainly not the home of the brave anymore. But that should still be an accurate description of

00:15:20.280 the people of God, that we are brave because, or I should say we're free because we're brave.

00:15:26.560 And I think the reason why we see very little distinction in many cases between the world and

00:15:32.420 the church right now when it comes to immediately handing over freedoms is because we see very

00:15:37.860 little distinction between the world and the church in terms of bravery. So whenever you don't

00:15:42.800 have courage, you're going to find bondage. And I think that I've seen almost an equal amount of

00:15:49.520 complicity, submission, bondage, slavery in the church, which makes me think that the reason why

00:15:56.540 is because the church that's supposed to be bold and brave, uh, because we have promises of eternal

00:16:03.720 life, but it seems as though the church is just as afraid of losing their temporal earthly existence

00:16:09.680 this life, um, as, as the pagan. So the pagan has at least been honest and said, YOLO, you only live

00:16:16.500 once. The church denies that, but they're acting like YOLO is, is the reigning mantra. They're 0.95

00:16:22.420 acting like they only live once. Would you agree with that? I would definitely agree with that.

00:16:26.840 I think it stems from not truly trusting the Lord. When I, right before everything hit, I recall I

00:16:33.540 was putting myself on this, I like to study scriptures based on certain things I might be

00:16:38.860 going through in the moment. That's not the only way I look at God's word, but if I'm, if I need

00:16:43.000 to be encouraged in a particular area, then I try to like get all these scriptures put together and

00:16:47.640 then just study them and just kind of meditate on them and one thing I was looking at maybe at the

00:16:52.920 end of February of 2020 was trusting God and not man and it was just so funny and so I began to

00:16:58.820 post things on my Instagram and then like right after that everything hit with with COVID and I

00:17:03.740 immediately they don't know what they're doing I said these experts have no idea what they're doing

00:17:08.200 and of course 18 months later it's very clear they have no clue and so I believe it boils down

00:17:15.580 to a lot of people not truly trusting God. They trust, they're trusting in men and they're trying

00:17:20.260 to put it under the guise of, oh, the Lord gave them wisdom. And so in order for us to honor the

00:17:27.580 Lord, we must honor the wisdom that he has given them. But I'm like, the wisdom that he has given

00:17:32.920 them should not cause us to, um, dishonor the Lord or to distrust the Lord or to go against

00:17:39.660 what the Lord has said. And I'm, I've seen a lot of that. There's definitely, there's fear,

00:17:43.660 There's this trust. And I don't want to say that everyone reacting this way is not necessarily trusting the gospel, but there should be a lot of self-examination going on that.

00:17:55.140 How do you trust in a gospel that tells you that you are called to suffer, that your very life can is, you know, could be at stake for proclaiming Christ?

00:18:05.840 And if you would bend the knee to get, you know, a vaccine for the sake of keeping your job, I'm just saying, I mean, people may disagree with this, but my reasoning is if the Lord is telling me we're called to suffer and we're called to, we might end up going without, even though we know the Lord will still provide for us in some way.

00:18:23.840 Um, ultimately, if we are persecuted unto death for proclaiming who Christ is, then what does it what sense does it make for me to bend the knee to get a mandated vaccine or whatever the edict is at the moment, in order to protect my livelihood as if the Lord can't provide for me.

00:18:45.200 And so I think for me, ultimately, I'm so glad that I came into reformed theology because it gave me a better, it gave me the vocabulary to articulate my faith. But at the end of the day, I remain just this down home, southern, God is God. And, you know, just, just trusting God is, it just gets to the basics of that.

00:19:08.560 um and so that's why I was able I guess you could say from 2020 um to say something that still

00:19:16.400 remains true in 2021 because I'm not speaking or I wasn't speaking from my opinion um in that

00:19:23.560 episode it was it was based on God's word God said this God said this God said this and the

00:19:28.400 Lord is the same you know he never he doesn't change he's the same forever um he's he's the

00:19:33.900 the same from, I'm saying it all backwards, but past, present, and forever. And so I just,

00:19:41.740 when you stand on God's word, you will never be put to shame. And so I just learned, I just

00:19:47.080 definitely realized I just need to clean what does God's word say. And so that's how I've been

00:19:51.560 coping during this, as I've been calling it a panini or a ponderosa. The way that I've been

00:19:57.340 coping with the COVID pandemic has been to just clean to God's word and just really trying to

00:20:02.720 look at things spiritually i have some friends who who uh laughed at me for that um but i i always

00:20:08.580 look at things spiritually first and then move down to see how it's being worked out in the in

00:20:13.000 the natural and the practical and it just it didn't make sense from the beginning it just it never made

00:20:18.140 sense to me from a biblical standpoint i'm like why would i fear this as if the lord did not design

00:20:23.320 my body to fight this why would i fear you know so yeah i i yeah i totally agree with everything

00:20:28.800 you said yes definitely well yeah so everything you're saying i agree with and you know that

00:20:34.180 that doesn't mean that there aren't serious viruses and you know the bubonic plague there

00:20:37.960 are there are periods in history human history and even church history where um there there

00:20:43.880 were some serious serious uh plagues viruses disease famine all these kinds of things that

00:20:49.440 killed a lot but here's the deal so you know i was in a pastor's meeting recently with a bunch of

00:20:55.000 a bunch of different pastors in the community and a couple of them are lay elders and so they're

00:20:58.360 bi-vocational. And, and they actually, these two guys, they both own funeral homes. And I just,

00:21:04.180 you know, out of curiosity, I wanted to talk to them, you know, and, and I said, so did you get

00:21:08.340 any extra business, you know, in 2020 and 2021? And they're like, nope, we were a little

00:21:13.960 disappointed. You know, we thought business was going to be booming. And, but our numbers were

00:21:18.620 pretty much exactly the same as they've always been. And so my point is, I agree with you that,

00:21:23.440 you know, behold, I am the Lord, I changeth not, you know, so that you, the sons of Jacob are not

00:21:27.960 consumed. So God doesn't change. God's word doesn't change. Um, but there's another thing

00:21:31.540 that doesn't change, uh, which is man. Um, and you know, now individual people can change by

00:21:37.140 God's grace. That's what conversion is. You know, that's what repentance is. That's what

00:21:40.920 sanctification is. But, but humanity in general, not only does the word of God, which is unchanging

00:21:46.600 eternal, tell us about the unchanging God that he, he, and his essence and his character doesn't

00:21:52.320 change. Um, but it also gives us, it doesn't just give us the Bible providing theology,

00:21:56.740 but it provides anthropology and and people actually don't really change and so i remember

00:22:01.860 when things were coming out you know all the way back in march of 2020 same thing for me

00:22:05.380 it wasn't merely just i trust god because all that is is wonderful and true um but it was also

00:22:11.800 this sense of all right even in the midst of trusting god god who is sovereign could send

00:22:15.160 a plague that wipes a bunch of people out um but but here's the other thing god doesn't change

00:22:21.020 but also man doesn't change like jesus there's a moment in the gospel narratives where he says

00:22:25.300 he did not entrust himself. They wanted to take him by force and make him king. Uh, it says,

00:22:30.040 but he did not give himself to them for he knew what was in man. Um, and Jesus had good. He didn't

00:22:36.180 just have good theology. He knew his father, um, and who the father was, but, but he had good

00:22:41.000 anthropology. And so for me, even before the data came out, I remember thinking, all right,

00:22:45.760 I know who God is, uh, but the God who is omnibenevolent and omnipotent. So he's all

00:22:50.720 powerful and all loving, even while, while upholding his, his omnipotence, his power over

00:22:56.520 everything and his love towards his people, he could still send a plague that's incredibly

00:23:01.020 dangerous. But, but that's in the theology compartment, but in the anthropology compartment,

00:23:05.860 it's 2020, it's an election year, a bad man, orange man. There's, there's a lot, you know what

00:23:13.240 I mean? There are a lot of, of reasons that that doesn't guarantee anything. But, but I knew from

00:23:18.800 the beginning, I was like, man, there could be some motives here, right? I mean, Trump is like,

00:23:22.940 we hate his Twitter feed. We hate his rhetoric. We hate this. We hate that. But gosh, you know,

00:23:27.340 we are making a little bit more money than we made four years earlier with Obama. We like his

00:23:31.500 economy. Well, what if there was a way that you could shut down the economy? The horse that Trump

00:23:37.520 is riding up to the election on, his best triumph, you could take right out from underneath his legs

00:23:45.700 just six months before the election?

00:23:47.540 What if you could shut down the economy?

00:23:49.300 Well, how do you get the American people

00:23:50.720 to agree to shutting out the economy?

00:23:52.740 I mean, that's too odd.

00:23:53.860 But what if there was a terrible, horrible virus?

00:23:58.400 And here's the thing, you know,

00:23:59.920 I mean, my wife is an RN.

00:24:01.380 She works very part-time, but she's an RN.

00:24:03.280 My brother-in-law, he's also an RN.

00:24:05.760 And hospitals, there have been moments

00:24:07.760 there have been spikes and dips and spikes and dips.

00:24:10.540 Part of the reason hospitals have been overwhelmed

00:24:12.180 is not just because there's so many people hospitalized.

00:24:14.700 It's still, the data is 1% of the people who get COVID actually are hospitalized.

00:24:19.900 But part of the problem with them being overwhelmed is because there's a shortage of hospital workers.

00:24:25.460 Why?

00:24:25.960 Well, because a lot of them had to be forcibly resigned because they weren't willing to get the vaccine.

00:24:31.960 So COVID is not the only problem.

00:24:34.060 So I say all that just to say that, you know, you know there's a serious virus when there's somebody walking down your street in your neighborhood,

00:24:40.180 ringing a bell saying, bring out your dead, right? 0.95

00:24:42.840 Bring out your dead. 0.95

00:24:43.700 Like, where are the bodies? 0.65

00:24:44.700 right where you know where are the bodies and so and and then even with you know charles spurgeon

00:24:49.900 and martin luther you know i remember everybody was quoting those guys and you know because they

00:24:53.300 had quotes because they had serious things in their day i think was colic um some kind of lung

00:24:58.760 disease in the days of spurgeon and then there was a plague with you know martin luther and both of

00:25:03.680 them said something to the tune of you know i'm not going to go anywhere where my absence is needed

00:25:07.580 less you know um without meaning to i i hurt my neighbor you know by giving him you know uh causing

00:25:14.120 him to become ill. And, and I think that the two big things people are quote, we'll see Luther

00:25:18.820 said, Spurgeon said, but the two big factors that made what they said, right. And us using it and

00:25:25.140 applying it wrong, in my opinion was two big factors. Number one, they weren't using that

00:25:31.000 rhetoric to talk about not gathering together on the Lord's day. That's actually what got

00:25:37.560 the church gathering I was I was at work and the school I was working at at the time I overheard

00:25:45.500 them say that they had a conference coming up and I wasn't paying much attention to what was

00:25:50.860 going on at the time but I overheard some of the administrators say they're limiting gatherings of

00:25:56.540 to a thousand anything more than and I was like gatherings it just clicked I don't know why but

00:26:01.580 it did but I was like people can't gather and I said oh they're gonna come after the church

00:26:06.340 And of course they did. And I was actually very shocked at how quickly churches were shutting down the weekend before everything was due to start with the two weeks to slow the spread.

00:26:20.020 But that was that was my that was my like main clue right there.

00:26:24.340 I was like, oh, this isn't again. I'm looking at things spiritually and I bring it down to the to the practical aspect of it.

00:26:30.180 And I did see how, yeah, there this is definitely there's an agenda or at least this is being used.

00:26:36.280 I never thought that COVID was was fake.

00:26:39.800 I thought I recognized that the reaction, the way that they wanted to deal with it was very much just just very nefarious, in my opinion.

00:26:50.420 And just having everything shut down. Oh, well, all the sports teams can't play as well.

00:26:54.560 And I'm like, no, I hear that. But I don't think Satan cares that his kids can't play as long as the church can't play, you know, only to turn around and have, you know, marijuana dispensaries and liquor stores and, you know, Walmart where, you know, so I was like, oh, this is just something that, you know, but it was definitely an opportunity to see where people stood.

00:27:19.920 And a lot of hearts are being tested right now, even even now, still a year later, a year and a half later, hearts are being tested.

00:27:26.540 And I just pray that people will take a moment to examine themselves and really look at how they responded to COVID and filter that through God's word and see, have you have you truly been trusting what God's word says?

00:27:38.540 Have you truly been loving your sister and brother in Christ? Have you truly been? And this goes for me as well.

00:27:43.640 But it's just it's just been an interesting, interesting time.

00:27:47.540 No, I agree. Well, let's talk about that for a second. So just real quick, before we move on,

00:27:51.580 the love your neighbor thing, because that just gets so much press in the church, you know, with

00:27:56.220 all things COVID, love your neighbor, love your neighbor. Well, I think part of the problem is

00:28:00.680 that, you know, cause we're not saying, Oh, well, we don't need to love our neighbor.

00:28:03.960 We're saying, you know, it's people are pitting, right? So love, loving God, loving neighbor.

00:28:08.260 And I think some people that they're creating in their minds, a false dichotomy, right? That you

00:28:12.400 have one set of Christians that, you know, they want to be really careful. They want to avoid 1.00

00:28:16.520 gatherings, you know, or they want to wear a mask or they want to get the vaccine to love their

00:28:19.920 neighbor. And then you've got the crazy spiritual people, you know, like Joel and Constance, and

00:28:24.020 they want to love God, you know, um, well, I'm not buying that. I don't think that there's anything.

00:28:29.940 I don't think, I know there's never a single time that God would ever, ever call us to love him

00:28:36.880 at the expense of neighbor. So these two things are not pitted against one another. This is the

00:28:41.660 greatest commandment and the second greatest commandment, right? So the greatest commandment

00:28:44.940 love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And then the second one,

00:28:48.860 so it's not like, well, you know, the second love your neighbor as yourself. It's not, well,

00:28:52.020 you know, it's more important to love God than love people. That's true. That's theologically

00:28:55.240 true. And if we're not careful, I think we can buy into this trap. It's a trap. And, you know,

00:29:00.700 where people, you know, we say, well, if I have to choose between loving God and loving my neighbor,

00:29:04.600 I'm going to love God because that's the greatest commandment and loving my neighbor is the second.

00:29:08.060 No, these two things, God who is sovereign over all things will never providentially allow for

00:29:12.400 any set of circumstances where his people will be called to love him in such a way that hates

00:29:17.600 their neighbor. That is, that is a non-existent scenario. It does not exist. And so the question

00:29:23.680 is, so, so the real, the real kind of argument is not that we're loving God and this other group of

00:29:29.060 people are loving neighbor. No, we are claiming to love neighbor and they're claiming to love

00:29:32.720 neighbor. So then the rub, the actual rub is what does it look like to love your neighbor? Who gets

00:29:38.320 to define love for neighbor and i would say god does god defines it and and i would say that you

00:29:45.140 know the two greatest commandments and this is why we need the law of god this is why we need the old

00:29:48.500 testament uh we love the gospel but we also love the law we need law and gospel you know martin

00:29:54.180 luther used to say you can err in preaching by preaching the gospel but not preaching the law

00:29:58.520 that and i think that's how a lot of the churches air today antinomianism there's grace grace grace

00:30:03.680 but there's there's no holiness there's no law there's no obedience all this is chalked up to

00:30:07.840 legalism. It's only legalism when you say do this in order to earn salvation. But when you say do

00:30:13.340 this out of gratitude for the free gift of grace you have through faith in Jesus Christ, that's not

00:30:18.320 legalism. That's just the Bible. So we need the law of God. The first four commandments in the

00:30:23.900 Ten Commandments, the Decalogue, shows us how to love God. So loving God is not a blank canvas

00:30:28.720 for our creative license and freedom. We love God by having no other gods before him, by not having

00:30:33.980 engraving images and idols by not taking his name in vain.

00:30:36.920 So we love him with sincerity and by remembering the Sabbath day and keeping it holy and not

00:30:41.620 neglecting the gathering on the Lord's day.

00:30:44.320 And then with love for neighbor, we have the next table of the law, which is commandment

00:30:48.600 five through 10.

00:30:49.660 And one of those commandments, I think you could talk about COVID in relation to each

00:30:53.720 of them.

00:30:53.920 But one that really stands out to me is thou shall not bear false witness, meaning that

00:30:59.340 if I'm bearing false witness, if I am promulgating a lie, even if I'm not outright saying a falsehood,

00:31:07.200 if I am giving off an impression that is deceitful by nature, that denies the facts,

00:31:13.400 that denies the truth, that perpetuates an illusion in people's mind that is something

00:31:20.500 other than reality, then I am in some sense bearing false witness and therefore hating my

00:31:27.160 neighbor. And so one of the reasons why I didn't get the vaccine is for me, my family, my wife,

00:31:33.760 me and our three daughters, we had COVID and all the data suggests that it's anywhere from six to

00:31:38.960 13 times more durable than natural immunity from the virus than the vaccine where you're going to

00:31:45.400 have to here in a second, we're going to find out from Fauci that you're going to have to get a

00:31:48.240 booster shot every 17 minutes. You know, like, I mean, it keeps, it went from eight months to six

00:31:52.460 to five. So, so my immunity, I am actually much more safer for my neighbors than, than anybody

00:31:59.000 with a vaccine. And so for me going to get the vaccine or for me walking around wearing a mask

00:32:03.240 all the time, the mask is like, why is everyone so afraid? Well, because you walk out of your house

00:32:08.280 and it's like, you're in a post-apocalyptic world. It looks scary. And so I think like,

00:32:13.480 there are so many things where, cause the mask says something, you know, one group is saying,

00:32:17.780 it says, I love my neighbor. Well, I say that the mask, the mask gives off an illusion that the

00:32:23.160 virus is much worse than it actually is, which is a form of bearing false witness, which is to hate

00:32:28.220 my neighbor. So, so at the end of the day, it's not one group wants to love their neighbor and

00:32:33.200 one group wants to love God. No, we want to love God by loving our neighbor. And we want to let

00:32:37.980 God define how to love our neighbor. And we think that this isn't it. Would you agree with that?

00:32:43.780 And there's anything you want to add to that? I would totally agree with that. I think from

00:32:46.720 the beginning before vaccines were even a thing just the idea of the mask I realized that the

00:32:51.520 optics were necessary to that psychological warfare that was being played or that was being

00:32:58.380 waged it you needed that optic of having the mask before before last year I'd only seen people maybe

00:33:06.920 in China wear face masks and I know they've had like little outbreaks of different things over

00:33:11.600 there. So that's, but again, that's over there. I can't, I can't speak to that, but it was just

00:33:16.340 weird for it to be in America of all places. Like, like seriously, I honestly thought we would

00:33:21.700 respond to this thing a lot differently. So it's like, I thought that I thought America would

00:33:26.000 respond differently. And I definitely thought the church would respond differently. So when you go

00:33:30.080 to church and you're being told that you have to wear a mask at worship service, it just looks and

00:33:36.140 you're in, and people are singing with their masks on, you're raising your hand, you're saying all

00:33:40.060 these things that run totally like counter to what it is you're displaying and I hate that I

00:33:47.760 hate that so much I hate that feeling so much um so anytime you know a church decides that they want

00:33:52.680 to have outdoor service I'm all about it because because of like you know I would prefer that we

00:33:56.660 exercise a lot more faith and just worship inside of the building that we have and you know but

00:34:01.160 if this is what helps everyone feel comfortable great but I just this whole has been it's been

00:34:07.560 very it's been a test of patience for for sure and then just also in the just speaking of what

00:34:12.340 you said about um bearing false witness I was just telling a friend the other day that and speaking

00:34:17.520 to your point about natural immunity the whole idea and and the world may not recognize this

00:34:22.940 but spiritually I can discern that this is a way to undermine the wisdom and the and just the way

00:34:28.580 that the Lord created us and to say I think I heard something today what Fauci said they were

00:34:33.400 asking him about natural immunity. He goes, well, you know, there is some evidence to suggest that

00:34:39.740 there is some level of protection, but you know, their ability is still in question. I'm like,

00:34:45.380 it's 18 months later, dear. How, why is it still in question? Like, are you guys not,

00:34:49.380 you've studied everything else, but natural immunity, you're like, well, we don't know,

00:34:52.940 the data's still out, you know, and it's a way, and they may not be cognizant of it,

00:34:57.340 but I can see spiritually how this is a way to mock the Lord's creation, to mock the wisdom

00:35:02.860 um of the lord designing our bodies the way we did i can totally see that and and it's just hard

00:35:09.700 to have this conversation with different people because you know you get accused of being super

00:35:13.220 spiritual but my response is ultimately that you know we're supposed to be walking in the spirit

00:35:18.020 so i don't understand you know why it's a problem but they they're pushing this vaccine as the holy

00:35:24.640 grail like and with everything that has been revealed and how you know they're following the

00:35:29.460 science and the science is just in their science. I believe in science because it's just the study

00:35:36.220 of God's creation. It's the study of God's creation, but when they pervert it, I don't

00:35:40.940 believe in perverted science. I'm not going to follow perverted science. I've had COVID as well

00:35:45.920 and I definitely agree with, especially my symptoms weren't horrible. I don't want to

00:35:54.280 undermine someone else's experience with it, but just knowing what I know from my own experience,

00:35:59.320 my mom I think she was the first person who I knew personally who got it she's a nurse and she

00:36:04.760 got it pretty early on of course she's you know working in that in that field and with her being

00:36:09.840 I think she was 60 at the time and she's you know closer to that age range where it was like oh

00:36:14.580 you know and she's like oh just eat a salad drink some water you know she she really was just like

00:36:21.740 oh just take some vitamin c go make sure you go for a walk you know her whole demeanor was just

00:36:27.180 very lax and laid back and you know she's like oh just make sure you take care of yourself and

00:36:31.180 you're good to go but I mean again it's just I don't want to negate someone else's experience

00:36:35.420 but I'm just saying for for the majority and the data continues to suggest that for the majority

00:36:40.640 this thing is like a you know the flu or a bad cold um you know you take care of yourself you're

00:36:46.480 good to go but for some reason the vaccines and another thing I'm finding interesting about the

00:36:50.540 push of the vaccines even as they speak about the efficacy of the vaccines and say oh well it's good

00:36:55.340 for reducing symptoms were we not on lockdown because most people were asymptomatic or had

00:37:01.460 very mild symptoms and so that's the reason why the world shut down because you couldn't really

00:37:06.060 control it and know who had it I was like so the vaccines really aren't doing more than what was

00:37:11.220 already going on but if this is what makes people feel comfortable then okay if you you know if you

00:37:16.280 if you believe the lie then okay um but yeah I definitely see this this I see the bearing false

00:37:21.940 witness i see the uh people who are showing that they don't truly trust the lord um and again i

00:37:27.380 want to be careful with that because i don't want that to mean that they um are not believers because

00:37:32.960 i know there's you know in scripture when it's you know they say you know i believe the lord

00:37:37.940 helped my unbelief so i get that sometimes you have those moments but 18 months people come on

00:37:44.020 now let's let's let i don't know let's get it together yeah no i agree yeah i have having

00:37:51.120 having a contradicting view to yours and mine on the issues of covid and issues of lockdowns and

00:37:56.760 issues all that does not necessitate that somebody's not a christian we're not saying that

00:38:00.460 um however i think as time goes on um you do you know it it just it depends you know if somebody's

00:38:09.460 saying, I'm not going to gather with the church and it's, you know, another 18 months go by and

00:38:15.200 this person is 30 years old and perfectly healthy. And then, then eventually, you know, I, you,

00:38:20.600 you do have to, you know, like you tell, so man looks at the outward appearance, God sees the

00:38:24.960 heart. However, there is a sense, you know, people say we can't judge, you know, well, that's not

00:38:29.120 true. You know, John, you know, the gospel of John chapter seven, you know, that we, we, you

00:38:34.860 know, we, we need to judge with right judgment. So, you know, the same judgment that you judge

00:38:38.700 others, you're going to be judged. And then the very next verse, the first five verses, Jesus

00:38:41.980 talks about, you know, judging and gives us warnings about issuing judgments. But then the

00:38:45.940 very next verse, verse six, he says, do not give what is holy to pigs, you know, swine and don't

00:38:51.400 cast, you know, or pearls to swigs and pigs and do not give what is holy to dogs. Well, how do you

00:38:58.300 know who a pig is? You make a judgment, right? So that, so there is a sense in which we can see 0.84

00:39:02.500 the heart of man. God alone sees the heart perfectly. But that doesn't mean we can't see

00:39:06.660 the heart at all because the Bible says out of the abundance of the mouth or out of the abundance

00:39:11.320 of the heart, the mouth speaks. So in someone's, in someone's speech, we get a glimpse of the

00:39:15.920 heart. Jesus also says, you know, you'll know them by their fruits, you know, so both in words and

00:39:20.720 in deeds, there is a sense in which we're able to make a judgment. I mean, and that's ultimately

00:39:24.700 the, the, the idea of the church excommunicating someone. So what the whole doctrine, the whole

00:39:29.140 existence of, you know, like first Corinthians chapter five, expel the immoral brother. How do

00:39:35.740 you do that? How do you expel him if you can't actually make a judgment? And so what we're

00:39:41.360 seeing is that, you know, the deeds of a person and the words of a person at some level do reveal

00:39:47.060 the heart. And now that said, everything we say is a revelation of the heart. But if somebody,

00:39:54.080 you know, has an outburst in a moment, you know, we can't say, we can't say, well, that doesn't

00:39:59.800 reveal anything. No, it reveals every, we're going to be held accountable for every word. So

00:40:04.080 even that flying off the handle in one moment still says something about your heart and who

00:40:08.800 you are as a person. But there's a difference in someone getting into a quarrel versus being

00:40:14.680 quarrelsome, right? Being marked by it. It's like this common characteristic. It's an ongoing

00:40:20.040 pattern. And so I think as time continues to go by, and as we're able to detect clear,

00:40:26.640 unwavering patterns, then eventually, eventually, I think that we can make those judgments. And for

00:40:31.500 myself as a local pastor, if I had someone in my church who was young and healthy and me and the

00:40:36.860 elders, uh, pastorally had been saying, Hey, I know that you're being lied to, but this is the

00:40:42.280 data. And this more importantly is God's word. And this is what it says. Um, after 18 months,

00:40:47.100 I don't have anybody like that in my church because people like that don't come to my church.

00:40:50.000 They know better. They listen to me online and they stay away. But if I had somebody like that

00:40:53.860 in my church, if 18 months went by and I was providing for them, both the word of God and

00:40:59.080 the special revelation and natural revelation, the data surrounding the virus, and this person

00:41:04.240 is healthy, and this person is young, and they've missed 18 months of church, and they're still not

00:41:09.360 going to come, I would excommunicate them. I would. At this point, I would excommunicate them.

00:41:14.560 Now, I would not do it personally, because I don't believe that's what I would call on the church,

00:41:18.560 right? Tell it to the church. Our church, I would excommunicate them, treating them as a tax

00:41:24.320 collector or a Gentile, meaning maybe they are converted, and maybe God uses this measure of 1.00

00:41:28.800 discipline to bring about repentance and bring them back. But in terms of our interaction with 0.67

00:41:32.840 them, we are no longer going to call this person a brother in Christ. I would do that. But my point

00:41:37.380 is, so we're not saying that anybody who disagrees is not a Christian. However, I just want to give

00:41:41.960 that caveat. We're also not saying that this in no way reveals something about a person's faith

00:41:48.980 because it does. Yeah. It does. This season is very much a time of just, I don't want to say

00:41:55.820 sifting, but hearts are very much being tested. And I think as much as we, I'm taking a social

00:42:01.720 media break at this point, but because I had to examine my own hearts, but just looking at how

00:42:08.880 many are responding to this pandemic, how they're responding, what they're doing in response to

00:42:14.920 everything, it's telling us a lot about ourselves. And as much as we fight online about who's right,

00:42:21.120 who's wrong we really should be taking some time to examine ourselves like why do I you know feel

00:42:26.460 like I need to use hand sanitizer every five seconds why do you know why did I need to buy

00:42:30.880 up all the toilet paper why am I why am I missing church gathering with the saint but I'm protesting

00:42:38.520 at a BLM you know protest like like seriously those kinds of things and and I've seen that

00:42:45.960 happen especially last summer where people were not coming to church because they wanted to love

00:42:50.760 their neighbor and protect you know the elderly or what whatnot and then would still go to a 1.00

00:42:57.420 protest with a cause okay yes I agree from a from a factual as a factual statement black lives do

00:43:04.400 matter because all lives matter that's just what it is but when you have a when you have a movement

00:43:12.820 that is pretty much all-inclusive and you're out there as a believer you know and and and BLM is

00:43:19.580 also supporting or is actually based based in promoting you know the lgbt agenda and and

00:43:26.540 breakdown of the nuclear family and um feminism and you see all of this happening but you're like

00:43:32.640 but i hate racism now so i'm justified in going out there so it's like no you don't need the

00:43:38.700 world's help or you don't need to join the world to fight for what's good just do what the church

00:43:43.340 has been doing for centuries you know so and gather and gather we protest by it by way that's

00:43:51.000 right we protest by going to church you know so that's right yeah every i amen i always say like

00:43:57.340 you know when we gather together on the lord's day when the saints gather together on the lord's day

00:44:01.240 for the the administering of the ordinary means of grace the public preaching the word public

00:44:06.000 praying of the word public singing of the word and public seeing of the word as it were in the

00:44:11.060 sacrament of the Lord's Supper and baptism. It's the only images. We walk not by sight, but by

00:44:15.560 faith. However, the Lord has prescribed to us two images in the Lord's Supper and in baptism. And

00:44:21.200 when we gather together as the saints on the Lord's day for the ministering of these ordinary

00:44:27.100 means of grace, it is kind of a threefold thing. One, it is first and foremost, it is our act of

00:44:34.360 worship to God. It's a sweet smelling perfume. It's a fragrance that ascends to heaven where God is

00:44:40.600 enthroned and, uh, and blesses his heart. Uh, secondly, though, it's also for the sheep. So

00:44:47.240 it's for the Lord. It's also for the sheep. It's, uh, it's, you know, the Puritans used to say the

00:44:51.480 Lord's day gathering is the marketplace for the soul. Or, you know, some of the Puritans said

00:44:56.120 that it's likened to, uh, John Bunyan's, you know, Pilgrim's Progress, the delectable mountains where

00:45:00.780 the sheep, the weary pilgrims are fed by these shepherds. And it's the only place in, in Christian,

00:45:07.100 you know and hopeful and faithful their journey to the celestial city it's the only place where

00:45:11.300 even though they haven't yet made it to the celestial city they can make out the celestial

00:45:15.240 city from from a distance they can see it they get a glimpse and and every lord's day there's

00:45:20.260 a sense in which our worship ascends to heaven but there's also a sense in which we are nourished

00:45:24.520 and fed and we are ascend to heaven in a spiritual sense we're seated with him in heavenly places and

00:45:30.140 we get a glimpse a reminder of the things to come that have the heavenly celestial city that we're

00:45:34.680 going to. But the third aspect, so for the Lord, for the sheep, but it's also, it's also for the

00:45:40.020 pagan because worship is warfare. And when we worship, our worship goes up. It ascends by the

00:45:46.100 power of the spirit to bless the father's heart. But the father in his grace and mercy is pleased

00:45:52.340 to condescend and to accomplish on earth his will in heaven. And he uses, he goes out from our

00:45:59.820 worship. He goes out. Every church is like a little beachhead, like a little military base.

00:46:05.420 And the Lord, he is pleased to condescend and to go out from us. And so it is a protest against

00:46:10.960 principalities, against powers of darkness. Our battle's not against flesh and blood. It's

00:46:16.160 ultimately not against people, but it's against a spiritual enemy. And the Lord uses our worship

00:46:21.080 to begin to topple idols and regional principalities and powers of darkness. And in all of

00:46:27.340 that it does affect people

00:46:30.120 because even though our battle,

00:46:31.560 I always say that our battle

00:46:32.540 is not against flesh and blood,

00:46:33.640 it's against Satan.

00:46:35.060 However, Paul, when he writes to Timothy,

00:46:37.760 he says that we should be careful

00:46:40.360 to rebuke our opponents with gentleness,

00:46:42.760 not knowing if God might grant them repentance

00:46:45.340 even after they have been taken captive

00:46:49.180 by Satan to do his will.

00:46:51.320 So our battle's not against people,

00:46:52.740 flesh and blood, it's against Satan.

00:46:54.560 However, Satan, the one that we're battling against,

00:46:57.340 He takes people captive in his ranks.

00:47:00.680 He uses people in his army.

00:47:02.780 And so that doesn't mean we pick up a literal sword

00:47:04.540 and we're slaying people.

00:47:05.940 But what it does mean is that we have a spiritual sword.

00:47:08.400 We're doing battle in the heavenlies.

00:47:10.140 God is going before us.

00:47:11.340 The Lord is our great warrior

00:47:12.980 and our worship is his warfare.

00:47:15.940 And as he is having an effect in the spiritual realm

00:47:19.120 with principalities, there is an effect on earth 1.00

00:47:21.740 because God is not a Gnostic

00:47:23.360 and he actually does care about flesh and blood.

00:47:25.740 but he does care about this material world that he made.

00:47:28.500 And so anyways, our worship, our gathering is a protest.

00:47:31.140 You're absolutely right.

00:47:31.920 It's threefold.

00:47:32.940 It's a blessing to the Lord himself.

00:47:34.960 It's nourishment and encouragement to the sheep.

00:47:37.060 And it is warfare against the principalities of darkness.

00:47:40.040 And it changes things even among the pagans.

00:47:42.840 And so to say that we can protest for Black Lives Matter,

00:47:46.140 we can protest for George Floyd, 0.86

00:47:47.880 but we can't protest the real enemy in this world,

00:47:50.720 which is not systematic racism in America,

00:47:53.020 but the real enemy, the principality of this world,

00:47:55.740 um, Satan, that we can't protest him. Um, the, the, the father of lies, the, the one who from

00:48:01.660 the beginning was a murderer, um, is, is ultimately to say that we, we can only protest, pretend evil,

00:48:07.600 but we can't protest real evil. It's again, it's bearing false witness. It's bearing false witness.

00:48:14.540 Okay. So here's the next question. We gotta, we gotta move on. I appreciate that. I need you.

00:48:23.040 you got to come on a Sunday. Cause I could, when I'm preaching, I could use that. I could use your

00:48:27.080 clapping. So I got, I got a bunch of white people in my church and it's just, it's quiet. It's very 0.81

00:48:32.840 quiet. So they love my preaching too. They just, they affirm my preaching by doing this,

00:48:37.440 you know, so anyway, maybe taking some notes, writing. Okay. So, so here we go. So liberals

00:48:45.280 say that the black community is hesitant to get the vaccine. And I know you don't speak for all

00:48:50.400 black people, but I want to get your opinion. Liberals say that the black community is hesitant

00:48:54.200 to get the vaccine because of historic abuses of white political leaders and white medical 0.96

00:48:59.600 professionals against black people. I think of eugenics, you know, I mean, some of that,

00:49:04.000 there is something to be said there. So do you, Constance, do you think that that's the real

00:49:08.400 reason? Why do you think that some people, you know, it's like Trump supporters and the black

00:49:14.960 community both tend to have this hesitancy about the vaccine. So, you know, and then there's the

00:49:20.040 famous scene from Nicki Minaj and she was picked up by, you know, uh, Carl, uh, Tucker Carlson.

00:49:25.360 And so there's that whole thing. I would just want to hear your, your theological, political,

00:49:30.080 cultural commentary on Nicki Minaj, the black community, the vaccine, Tucker Carlson, the

00:49:34.600 whole nine yards. What do you think? As far as, um, I, I actually can, I would say I somewhat

00:49:43.240 agree with that sentiment, um, unfortunately. And I mean, what else do they expect people to do

00:49:49.800 after five years at least five years of being told repeatedly that you are systemically oppressed

00:49:57.100 um because because of the color of your skin um at least since 2014 when was the situation with um

00:50:03.960 with uh uh in ferguson yeah michael brown and then trayvon martin at least since 2013 2014 we have

00:50:13.340 been told over and over and over again that they are after us they are against us and there is this

00:50:19.200 thing now where they're talking about um health care racism and um the CDC director Rochelle

00:50:25.740 Relinsky actually um she she she supports that narrative which is very unfortunate um and so

00:50:33.980 there is that element but if I'm honest I don't think that that is the whole shebang for why 0.82

00:50:40.280 there are black people um um hesitant to take or a large number of black people hesitant to take

00:50:45.780 the vaccine um you mentioned something about trump supporters and or conservatives and then

00:50:50.780 like how these things who work how do these work out the irony of it all is that most people don't

00:50:57.220 realize that the african-american african-american community has been largely it's largely conservative

00:51:03.340 like it's mostly conservative and it has a lot of church a lot of people were raised in the church

00:51:09.020 at least black black americans i'll put it that way um were raised in the church you know you're

00:51:14.220 coming from the south you're coming from um even though the bible was weaponized against slaves and

00:51:19.380 things like that there's that the reality that a lot of our ancestors were raised with some

00:51:26.240 knowledge of the bible um and so it's just been passed down on and on and on and i have heard

00:51:31.600 black people i've heard other races as well but i've definitely heard black people who you who

00:51:37.060 probably have not even walked inside of a church in like the last decade go you know what i don't 0.88

00:51:41.760 know like this looks a little crazy like the whole world is shut down and you're telling me

00:51:46.620 that the only way i can have a job and do is to take this thing that's the mark of the bees and

00:51:51.100 i'm like okay well like you know but a lot of white people think that yeah there is there is

00:51:57.400 some level of awareness of something's not right so i do think that there's an element where people

00:52:03.260 may look at it as uh systemic oppression but it's a little it's unfortunate because you have that

00:52:08.520 situation where even if they think that way, the reality is systemic oppression happens when you

00:52:15.960 are forcing individuals to take a vaccine, you know, in order to participate in the global

00:52:23.120 economy. If they don't do it, they're shut out of society. And it just so happens that a large,

00:52:29.140 at least 60% of the African-American community fall into that particular category. So I haven't

00:52:35.780 seen many, I haven't seen many black people, especially the Black Lives Matter group, among

00:52:41.120 the Black Lives Matter group. I have not seen a lot of people who were very much in the streets

00:52:44.580 last year talking about systemic oppression and police brutality and all that. And I've not seen

00:52:51.900 anyone say, wait a minute now, you're telling me that if I don't get this vaccine, I can't do this.

00:52:56.740 And a large population of my people or my community fall into this category. That is systemic

00:53:02.940 oppression it may not be well the reality is it's not based on race but who you know at this point

00:53:09.560 the the logic they were using last year who cares what is truly based on because crt says everything

00:53:15.020 is racist so i'm surprised that they not use this thing that's very it's a glaring truthfully an

00:53:22.620 issue that's very clearly systemic oppression they're not calling this out at all and i think

00:53:28.440 someone called out oh gosh what is the guy's name he he he pushed he pedals um critical race theory

00:53:34.840 i forget his name and they asked him did he think martisby no it wasn't jama i don't think it was

00:53:40.000 jamaar tisby oh oh gosh what is this guy's name i should have looked it up that's all right that's

00:53:44.240 all right but he basically asked him do you think that the vaccine mandates is you know uh another

00:53:50.620 form of racism he goes well actually i mean he didn't know how to answer it he because if he

00:53:56.600 if he goes if he says it is then now he becomes an anti-vaxxer and then now he you know he's so

00:54:02.120 it's like the ideologies are starting to they're being pit against one another it's it's like it's

00:54:08.500 you're absolutely right it's almost like transgenderism and uh feminism right so it's 0.94

00:54:13.300 like so like lgbt it's like that that that t is really messing things up for the l the g and the 0.98

00:54:20.540 b right because the l the l the g and the b were having a great time and then all of a sudden the

00:54:25.300 the T came along and really made things weird. And so, but you're right. It's like, it's this,

00:54:29.800 it's this contradiction that, you know, how are you a lesbian? Um, if, if there's no such thing

00:54:34.960 as women, right. You know, how, how are you bi if, uh, if there's, you know, more than two genders 1.00

00:54:41.060 or no, no such thing as gender. And it's just a binary construct and all that, you know, and,

00:54:44.980 and, and how can you be a feminist? You know, if, you know, I mean, feminists, it's funny, 0.99

00:54:49.040 like some people who, you know, cause things have been changing so rapidly, this, this, 1.00

00:54:53.240 you know sexual revolution is just this train has been going down the track at just incredible

00:54:58.360 speeds to the point where just just five years ago three years ago two years ago not not that 0.51

00:55:02.360 long at all you know people who were lgbt you know and they you know advocates and and raging 0.98

00:55:08.140 feminists you know are all of a sudden and professional athletes female athletes are all

00:55:12.520 of a sudden really upset right all of a sudden like oh whoa i didn't want it to go there because 1.00

00:55:17.700 now all of a sudden you know teenage girls are losing their trophies because a bunch of guys are

00:55:21.740 you know you know putting on makeup and a track suit and and beating them you know and so anyway

00:55:26.920 so i i completely agree it's just like that that's the it's the inconsistency the illogical

00:55:32.460 nature of of man's law versus god's law of secularism secularism is pagan and and what

00:55:39.340 we have to realize is neutrality is a myth there is no neutrality it's it's either you are for

00:55:43.920 christ or you are against him and it's either christ ultimately any other world view so whether 0.64

00:55:48.540 it be you know islam on the one side so let's say christianity is right here you can have islam on

00:55:52.820 the other side on one side and then on the other side you have secularism but both have an agenda 0.85

00:55:57.560 and neither one is morally neutral and at the end of the day it's either christ or chaos it's christ

00:56:03.020 or chaos and so we're seeing chaos right now and you're absolutely right it's it's like okay well

00:56:08.260 this is something that you would tend to think that the liberal media would be eating up like

00:56:12.820 every chance they get to you know because i mean how long ago was it like like literally i think

00:56:17.620 less than a month ago right that all of a sudden you know these laws for you know voter registration

00:56:22.860 are are systematically racist and oppressive because you got to have uh you know a driver's

00:56:28.180 license and as you know constance no black person knows how to get a driver's license how insulting

00:56:32.460 is that right and so you know so that's that's what we're being told and now but but that's that's

00:56:37.800 the vote you got to have a driver's license now we're being said way more than a driver's license

00:56:41.200 you got to have this vaccine card and inject something in your arm just to have a job and

00:56:45.460 feed your family right and and and that one we actually do have stats statistics that it is

00:56:51.700 disproportionately affecting right right people of color yeah like going back so like i need some

00:56:58.340 evidence but we can't talk about it yeah but but we can't talk so it's so much hypocrisy and that

00:57:04.080 just goes back to what you were saying about with nikki minaj um that whole situation uh the day all

00:57:09.580 that came out that's the day I decided to take a break from things were crazy it was actually 0.85

00:57:16.140 really funny I have to say this though I I do not support Nicki Minaj I'm not a fan of hers

00:57:22.420 anything like that I actually did a blog post on her about three or four years ago because she

00:57:26.580 partnered with a um it was more so about the quote-unquote gospel artists who partnered with

00:57:31.580 Nicki Minaj to do the song um the the artist their their theology is very much questionable

00:57:38.040 I honestly don't think that they truly believe the gospel.

00:57:41.840 I just got to put that out there.

00:57:43.380 But I wrote, so I'm not a Barb or whatever her group is called.

00:57:47.840 I'm not a Nicki Minaj fan, but I am a reasonable human being.

00:57:52.440 And, you know, she made some valid points concerning needing to research the vaccine more.

00:57:59.860 I did not appreciate how people on Twitter were telling her, well, you're rich.

00:58:05.160 What other questions do you have?

00:58:07.200 you have doctors and other experts at your disposal to get the answers. 1.00

00:58:11.320 Why are you like, give the lady time to do whatever research she needs. 1.00

00:58:15.200 She just had a child. She has other things going on, you know, 1.00

00:58:18.520 between she and her husband and she's a, you know, global superstar.

00:58:22.120 She may not have had the time to really look into this the way others have.

00:58:25.400 So I just thought it was weird, but her, the thing,

00:58:29.780 I actually agree with her throughout the whole thing.

00:58:33.200 I think just the conversation she was having with her fans,

00:58:35.580 she tends to be more transparent and more um approachable i guess you could say with her

00:58:40.240 with her fan base and so i appreciated the conversation she was having with them and you

00:58:45.600 would think that the liberal side of things would would have acknowledged how she was telling people

00:58:50.500 hey if you need to feed your family and you know they tell you you need the vaccine to do that

00:58:54.960 then get the vaccine she was saying that um but they didn't care um they the fact that she said

00:59:00.500 that she wanted to do it on her terms triggered a lot of people and then of course they found the

00:59:06.560 one thing to make her look silly which was the you know the the anecdote about yeah that whole

00:59:13.280 thing um but swollen tea yeah even with that I wasn't really it was hilarious but even with that

00:59:19.440 I wasn't offended by it because we all do that like oh no I heard at least at least I do maybe

00:59:24.400 I'm wrong I don't know but when we're trying to figure things out you know I heard this happen

00:59:28.160 So I need to look at this a little bit more. So I don't see I didn't see the harm.

00:59:31.540 And I mean, I would I don't think it was wise for her to put her cousins, friends information out there.

00:59:36.960 But I think she was probably in the moment and just having this conversation with her fans and just kind of that's that's how I saw it. 0.99

00:59:42.880 I should say I don't know what her actual intentions were, but they came and she's a liar. 0.64

00:59:48.100 She's spreading this information. I'm like, or she's just figuring it out. 0.73

00:59:51.380 And she wasn't given the room to do that. And then they shut her down.

00:59:56.560 But what came out of it was a larger issue, which is the media silencing anyone who either questioned the vaccine or spoke any type of truth that they don't want to get out.

01:00:10.420 And so I think that's where a lot of what am I?

01:00:15.300 I'm going to say liberals, not liberals, conservatives came in.

01:00:18.080 I think a lot of the conservative crowd came in when she began to talk about, wait a minute, is this even America anymore?

01:00:23.820 she did this live stream where she talked about how you know being raised in Trinidad her either

01:00:30.000 someone either her mother or grandparents or someone told her to be grateful that which you

01:00:34.780 know in America she could go to church openly because in certain places you couldn't do that

01:00:39.720 and so she kind of spoke to a larger issue but of course the media just kept honing in on the

01:00:44.900 cousin's friend and it's just making the whole thing crazy but she spoke as the kids say facts

01:00:50.580 um about being silenced and and we see that happening i mean of course these are principalities

01:00:56.880 at work that are trying to suppress the truth and um so i definitely agree with her sentiment 0.52

01:01:01.780 on that i don't agree with a lot of things uh the Nicki Minaj is involved in including how she

01:01:06.780 responded to some certain things of course her language and all of that in dealing with it but

01:01:11.420 the the basic point she made about being silenced for asking questions um or for even you know

01:01:19.560 possibly not wanting to go along with the get along gang um and being uh canceled because of

01:01:26.300 that um so i i agree with her there i i definitely i i don't want to say i had her back but i i told

01:01:33.660 but when i saw that tucker carlson spoke about her spoke about her in his segment and then she

01:01:39.280 tweeted the segment and that's okay you know liberals were like you know trigger you know so

01:01:45.940 but everything just kind of went crazy and i was like i need a break like the internet is wild

01:01:50.640 so i just took it it's wild yeah i agree with everything you're saying and i think with you

01:01:55.880 know nikki minaj like you know sometimes like celebrities and you know it's just it's hard to

01:02:00.160 tell are there is this just an act are you just is this you know is this a play or is this genuine

01:02:04.680 and you know like like the the tone that she had the disposition that she had was like

01:02:09.920 like like it's scary you know people are afraid to say anything for being silenced or what's

01:02:15.740 And, you know, at first I thought like, I remember when I was listening to a clip of that, I think I was, I was, I was listening to either Matt Walsh or Michael Knowles and they played a clip and I'm hearing, you know, Nicki Minaj's voice and, and it's, it sounds kind of dramatic, kind of emotional talking about like, she, you know, she can't like, she's shocked.

01:02:32.640 She's shocked, you know, that they're trying to suppress people.

01:02:35.020 You can't even ask a question.

01:02:36.340 You can't even take a little time.

01:02:37.680 You can't disagree or anything.

01:02:39.360 And she sounds so shocked.

01:02:40.480 And I'm thinking she's just playing for the cameras.

01:02:42.240 This is just a celebrity.

01:02:43.280 And then it hit me. I thought, oh, wait, raging, immoral, sexual revolution pushing liberals. 0.96

01:02:53.920 This is their first time that they've experienced what we as conservative Christians have been experiencing for years.

01:02:59.920 So she probably actually I don't think she was acting. I think Nicki Minaj probably was shocked.

01:03:03.760 It's the first time she woke up to the reality that, that, that, that her, her team, cause

01:03:09.520 it is still her team, but her team that she's been promoting by her licentiousness, by her

01:03:15.600 immorality, by all these things that that team that she's been promoting and leading 1.00

01:03:20.280 all of a sudden she realized how heinous and how wicked, how much of bullies they actually,

01:03:26.100 and it's, and it's a powerful revelation.

01:03:27.680 Everybody, we all have this at some point of our life because it's called, if nothing

01:03:32.020 else, it's called conversion, right?

01:03:33.540 So, right, you were once, Ephesians 2, but you were like them at one point, you know, children of darkness and, you know, dead in your sins and trespasses.

01:03:42.020 And so we all have that moment where God wakes us up.

01:03:45.280 And I'm not saying Nicki Minaj, I'm not saying this was a conversion, but I'm just saying we all have that moment, for the Christian at least, where we wake up and we realize, because we thought, see, nobody is sitting in a corner.

01:03:55.780 Maybe, I don't know, maybe Dr. Fauci, but other than him, nobody's sitting in the corner, you know, even, even, you know, Joe Biden, he's not sitting in the corner laughing maniacally.

01:04:03.980 He's sitting in the corner watching Matlock, but, but you know, nobody is, is just sitting in the corner because nobody ever thinks they're the bad guy.

01:04:12.600 That's not right. So we grow up watching Disney movies and all this kind of, and everything's so black and white and plain.

01:04:17.660 You can tell who the bad guy is because he has, you know, he has a red face and funny

01:04:21.880 horns and, and, you know, but in real life, everybody thinks they're on the right side

01:04:26.600 of history.

01:04:27.120 Everybody thinks they're moral.

01:04:28.600 Everyone thinks they're the good guy.

01:04:30.000 And so when you, when God opens your eyes and you have that revelation of, oh my goodness,

01:04:36.080 like I'm the bully, right?

01:04:38.000 Like, I don't know if you saw this.

01:04:39.120 So on Netflix, I watch, you know, and I'm not endorsing Netflix and I honestly, I feel

01:04:42.900 guilty every time I pay for it.

01:04:44.020 So all my listeners who are judging me right now, I will probably eventually cancel my Netflix prescription, you know, subscription.

01:04:50.620 Pray for me.

01:04:51.540 But, you know, one show that I really did like that I watched on it was the, you know, the karate show from the Karate Kid that they remade, Cobra Kai.

01:05:00.660 And basically, it's like the thing that was so eye-opening and everybody's like, oh, my gosh, you're right, is they took, you know, the two main characters from the movies.

01:05:10.200 And now it's like 30 years later, and they're showing it from the viewpoint, from the perspective

01:05:15.240 of the guy who in the original movies was the bully, that he was bullying Daniel's son.

01:05:21.740 Daniel's son was the hero and the good guy, and he just wanted to do what was right.

01:05:25.880 And there was this horrible bully that was always picking on him.

01:05:28.640 And now you're seeing it.

01:05:29.820 He's all grown up.

01:05:30.600 His life is a wreck.

01:05:31.480 And you're seeing it from his perspective, what happened.

01:05:33.820 And they're doing it through this lens of, oh, maybe Daniel's son was actually the real

01:05:39.220 bully that, you know, maybe, maybe Danny was a real bully. And, and so I say all that to say,

01:05:44.180 you know, and everyone's having this, Whoa, that's, that's deep, you know, about the karate kid,

01:05:48.840 you know, and, but, but in real life in the land of the living and reality that happens all the

01:05:54.640 time that, that each of us it's, it's called being humbled. It's called being humbled that each of

01:06:00.300 us, we, we come to recognize I've been playing for the wrong team. I've been, you know, talking

01:06:05.240 about the bullies, the fascists, you know, these conservatives, these, and then all of a sudden I

01:06:10.480 realize I'm the bully. I'm the one who is, who is forcibly, you know, uh, putting a mask on a

01:06:17.160 two-year-old on a plane as he's screaming and crying and gasping for air. I'm the one saying

01:06:21.460 that fathers have, can't feed their kids and have to lose their job if they won't get, um, them and

01:06:26.420 their wife and, you know, injected with something that, that really, you know, uh, the verdict's

01:06:31.200 still out. And, and so all of a sudden everybody has kind of that moment. And I think for Nicki

01:06:35.780 Minaj, that was, that was her moment. And I think she was truly shocked because I think it might be

01:06:40.260 the first moment she's had where she realized I've been playing on the wrong team. I was praying for

01:06:45.240 her because I was like, wow, look, I saw a lot of conservatives go, oh yeah, we just watched Nicki

01:06:49.820 Minaj get red peeled, right. You know, in, you know, in real time. And I'm thinking like, what

01:06:54.480 if she was actually being converted? Like how much more amazing would it have been if she was being

01:06:58.700 converted to christ you know what i mean so i do pray that you know again just like a lot of um

01:07:03.960 black folks whether they're african-american or from another country that came to america

01:07:07.800 a lot of us have some type of experience with the church or with the box some i'm not saying

01:07:14.300 it's correct and get a lot you know a lot of times not but um there's something there there's

01:07:20.180 there's a seed there and i just pray that the lord would water that and um amen god god save

01:07:26.640 Nicki Minaj. Amen. That would be beautiful. That'd be wonderful. All right. Last question,

01:07:31.400 because I know we've been going long, but I think it's a good conversation. I hope our listeners

01:07:35.200 are blessed by it and any of your followers who tune into it. But the last question that I just

01:07:40.460 want to hear your thoughts on, what do you think about Christians from a Christian ethical standpoint

01:07:45.620 using a fake vaccine? What do you think about that? You mean like the passport, vaccine pass?

01:07:52.360 I mean, uh, not a fake vaccine passport. I'm sorry. Yeah. Uh, you know, I, I joked about it

01:07:59.760 once I was, you know, when they were, when I was discerning, I was like, yeah, they're going to

01:08:02.800 start making us get these vaccine cards and all this stuff. I was like, all right, who's going

01:08:06.120 to be doing, you know, but I honestly, I think we should stay away from them for sure. Um, I think

01:08:11.460 there's, there's a lot of reasons. I mean, of course it's not ethical. Um, and, and that's

01:08:15.840 of course, cause two wrongs don't make a right. As they say, we know that what they're doing is

01:08:19.280 wrong but we have to look at ultimately our need to um i guess respectfully civilly submit to our

01:08:28.820 government and if we we if we're going to deny um getting vaccinated then we just deny getting

01:08:34.160 vaccinated and that's it and stand in it and trust the lord in it i don't think we need to

01:08:37.720 you know uh i i think it undermines your purpose for getting first for rejecting or refusing the

01:08:45.140 vaccine only to turn around and get the vaccine card. It's just weird to me. But one thing is

01:08:50.320 that, I mean, I think we already know that we talked about Satan and how he has a hold on

01:08:54.660 people who are unbelievers. Ultimately, we know that he's already after us. He's prowling around 0.62

01:09:02.080 like a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour. So we don't want to put ourselves in a position

01:09:06.640 that gives him any validity or any, we just don't want to give him that room to actually

01:09:12.280 say that he had just cause to arrest us or penalize us in any way because we had a fake vaccine

01:09:17.980 date, a vaccine card. They told, they're telling people at the outset that this is a federal

01:09:22.100 offense. So just leave it alone. That's number one. The second thing I think about it is that

01:09:27.580 if we're going to disobey authorities, it has to be because we are trying to obey God. And I don't

01:09:32.600 see how having a fake vaccine passport helps us obey God. Like it helps us get to get into a

01:09:40.020 restaurant uh go to the gym you know for those who may want to go to a bar or something go to

01:09:45.260 the bar or get on a plane or travel to certain countries or whatnot but you know and I understand

01:09:50.460 that people are saying people may say well what about churches that are required well first of

01:09:54.240 all if your church is requiring a vaccine card to get in then they're automatically out of order so

01:10:00.360 let's just that's neither here nor there but um and then I'm just looking at fake vaccine cards

01:10:07.520 It's basically us acknowledging that we still are clinging to the world.

01:10:12.840 We want to still do what the world is doing.

01:10:16.400 We're envying the world.

01:10:17.660 So we would be willing to lie or cheat or steal in order to do that.

01:10:22.240 And I just think that undermines our witness.

01:10:24.060 And so I don't know.

01:10:26.640 And it's just also that human ingenuity and not the wisdom of God that will cause someone

01:10:30.420 to get into that.

01:10:31.380 So I just think that that would be something we need to steer clear of.

01:10:34.620 If we're going to suffer for Christ's sake, then we need to suffer well, and we need to trust the Lord to deliver us.

01:10:40.740 I mean, when Paul and, you know, when they were all arrested and everything, they, you know, they weren't going in and knocking out guards and all of that.

01:10:50.060 Yeah, I just, the Lord provided opportunities for them.

01:10:53.120 The Lord, and I guess that's my ultimate point, the Lord will give us opportunities to move around this thing.

01:10:58.480 One thing I noticed that was really interesting the other day, I was looking at footage of a fight outside of a New York restaurant, Carmine's, I think it is, and then Black Lives Matter got involved and talked about how the restaurant was racist because the waitress checked vaccine cards and one of the cards was fake or something like that.

01:11:17.000 And then so now you're seeing these two things again, we talked about earlier about how the ideologies are starting to kind of converge and they're they're they're opposing each other.

01:11:28.140 And I noticed I clicked. I was like, the Lord tells us that he will fight for us.

01:11:33.580 We need only be still. And I'm like, you know what?

01:11:37.080 The the world is going to put things in play that will ultimately benefit us.

01:11:41.960 They may not realize it, but because the Lord, we are the Lord's and he's our refuge and he's protecting us.

01:11:49.440 They are, you know, the they're they're they're after each other.

01:11:53.420 They're they the judgment against them is that they're fighting each other.

01:11:57.220 And then as they fight one another, for example, say Black Lives Matter, they protest the restaurant for being racist.

01:12:03.020 And so the restaurant decides, you know what, I'm not going to implement this.

01:12:06.560 And for fear of being called racist, all the restaurants in New York say, you know what, I'm not going to implement this vaccine.

01:12:11.960 passport and then ultimately the city lifts the requirement and then the next thing you know so

01:12:16.720 that it could work out that way i think that's what i'm trying to say but my point is the i don't

01:12:21.340 see the the need to do that because we just need to check our motives like exactly why do we want

01:12:28.380 a fake vaccine card like is it right that's good to worship god and if so and what i can't think of

01:12:35.760 any way that a fake vaccine card would help us worship you know what i mean i just don't i don't

01:12:40.920 No, that's a really good point.

01:12:42.460 I need to be clear of it.

01:12:44.180 Go ahead.

01:12:44.480 I'm sorry.

01:12:44.780 Go ahead.

01:12:45.560 No, that's it.

01:12:46.020 I was just saying, I just think we need to stay away from that.

01:12:48.940 I know it can be tempting.

01:12:52.220 So I think you made some really good points.

01:12:55.920 Number one, you're saying first thing you should do is if you're thinking, even considering it, first, what do you want to do this for? 0.97

01:13:02.980 So if you want to get into a restaurant, that's just kind of dumb.

01:13:06.920 That's just this personal comfort and pleasure and convenience and all those kinds of things.

01:13:12.720 If you want to get a vaccine card to worship the Lord, then email me at joel at the rightresponseministries.com.

01:13:22.620 And I will talk to you about finding a new church because you just need to leave. 0.51

01:13:28.660 So the only pushback that I would give is just, you know, it's like we're only not submitting to government.

01:13:34.800 you said we're only not submitting to the government when it would compromise us in

01:13:40.160 obedience to God.

01:13:40.920 And the only example that I can think of is just a father in terms of provision.

01:13:44.980 Like there is a commandment for a father to provide, but I still agree with you in the

01:13:49.180 sense that, you know, if everybody just fakes the vaccine card, how is that loving our neighbor?

01:13:54.180 Because that's still the promulgation of bearing false witness.

01:13:57.980 That's, you know, so, cause I love John Knox.

01:14:00.160 And so, you know, John Knox, the Scottish reformer, you know, he said that, you know,

01:14:03.880 resistance to tyranny is obedience to God. But getting a fake vaccine card is not actually

01:14:10.740 resistance. It's compliant. It actually validates them. It's saying that these are your rules. And

01:14:18.580 so we are going to play by your rules in this way. It's like a weird, it just is in a weird way. It

01:14:26.240 validates their requirement. And I just think it's like, no, if you're not going to get it,

01:14:30.480 you need to be right standing whatever it is you're going to do if they say you're going to

01:14:34.920 lose your job i actually just had that experience um i got a call on monday i went to excuse me i

01:14:41.280 went to um the office for my i teach but it's like a contract kind of thing so i went to the

01:14:46.260 office to get some supplies for my my classroom and when i'm in the in my car just getting myself

01:14:51.860 situated i get a call from the owner of the company and she goes hey um not sure if you heard

01:14:56.280 but the mayor is going to make an announcement soon that, um, you have to have, um, you have

01:15:01.640 to be fully vaccinated, um, by November 1st, or you won't be able to, um, or you won't be able to

01:15:09.720 go into the classroom. And basically that means that I will basically lose my job. And, um, it's

01:15:16.020 funny in that moment, I mean, you know, I had just gotten engaged and, you know, my fiance and I are

01:15:21.240 not that far into planning the wedding just yet. It's all new, but we know that that's something

01:15:26.160 that we got to do and so I'm like oh man this is gonna like totally mess up my wedding plans and

01:15:30.760 but I said you know what you know I understand if that's if that's something that has to be done I

01:15:35.300 get it because because I'm not getting vaccinated you know I didn't say it in the with you know in

01:15:39.780 a rude way but my point was just like this is I'm not doing this so um there has to be a workaround

01:15:45.480 and by God's grace oh God is so good I went back because my my boss unfortunately had just gotten

01:15:51.560 the information from someone else. And she was just trying to give me a heads up. And I don't

01:15:56.400 think she had a chance to read the order yet. And I don't think the order was even out yet. I don't

01:15:59.540 know. But I went back and I read the order. And then they said, but if you have a religious or

01:16:04.320 medical exemption, you can test out. And I was like, praise the Lord, you know, so there's a

01:16:08.840 there's an accommodation, of course, by law, they should provide that accommodation. But the reality

01:16:14.000 is a lot of places are not offering those. For some reason, they're not honoring those

01:16:18.640 accommodations i don't know everyone's just lost their minds and the constitution doesn't even

01:16:23.920 matter anymore i don't even know but i was telling people about what in 2017 i said persecution is

01:16:29.480 coming to america and ultimately if people would pervert when they found a way to make abortion

01:16:36.820 constitutional and same-sex marriage constitutional or constitutionally protected

01:16:42.900 it right i was like you know what they can do if they would pervert god's word because they do it 0.84

01:16:49.960 every day or the world does and if they will pervert the god's word and just say that a man

01:16:55.280 is a woman and a woman is a what is the constitution like in their in their eyes like

01:16:59.860 why if they would pervert god's word who why do they care about what the founding fathers of

01:17:04.660 america but for some reason there are there are a lot of um evangelical christians you know

01:17:10.780 patriotic Christians who really like put all this faith in the constitution. And I'm not saying that

01:17:16.640 we should not speak up for what's right and what our laws say and what the true intent of them.

01:17:22.320 I'm not saying that, but at some point we really have to figure out like, are we going to trust

01:17:27.640 the Lord or are we trusting in something that man put into place? And when they pervert this

01:17:34.560 document so so much that we no longer have the right to free speech and what else are what do

01:17:41.660 we do then are we just going to wage war on them are we going to or we as far as physical physically

01:17:45.960 speaking or are we going to wage war spiritually and pray and seek the lord and and rely on one

01:17:51.380 another as a church like i i just question those kinds of things i would be okay with both

01:17:55.860 i i i i personally but i don't know if i would be out there you know you don't you don't have

01:18:02.760 to agree i i would though i would i think you know but anyway but you're you're absolutely right i

01:18:08.060 like what the point that you made that if they're willing to we should not be surprised is what

01:18:11.940 you're saying that we shouldn't be surprised that that the world who john chapter 8 you know

01:18:16.400 children of the devil who are going to pervert the word of god and then we're shocked when they

01:18:21.220 don't honor the constitution why are we why are we shocked yeah so that's a really good point

01:18:27.400 Yeah, Joe Biden, he told us he doesn't care.

01:18:30.440 He made it very clear.

01:18:31.960 Oh, this guy.

01:18:33.340 Oh, this guy.

01:18:34.620 Great for you with that one.

01:18:35.560 Woo!

01:18:38.560 So great response.

01:18:41.060 I like what you're saying.

01:18:42.720 For me, I think the thing that was, you know, I've thought about it some, but just hearing you say it again was good for me just to think, you know, one of the points you made that I thought was my favorite was just that we're missing.

01:18:54.320 if we really do think that we need to take a stand here, we're missing our opportunity to resist

01:18:59.080 if we're getting a fake vaccine card. That's actually being complicit. That's not actually

01:19:06.580 resisting. I think that that's really helpful. I personally think that there are maybe some

01:19:10.740 instances, I won't go into it, I'm not going to bore you, but I do think that there are some

01:19:14.100 instances, I got a friend who he's already got his fake vaccine card guy. So if you need a guy,

01:19:20.040 if you need a guy

01:19:21.280 so I do actually think that 0.65

01:19:23.660 a biblical argument could be made

01:19:25.440 but I think it's few and far between

01:19:27.080 and I think the ideal

01:19:29.200 is

01:19:30.040 that would be on a

01:19:33.640 list of steps that would be like step 14

01:19:35.880 and I think there is a step 14

01:19:37.840 I think it's rare but I think it exists

01:19:39.940 even for the Christian 1.00

01:19:41.580 but I think the first is take a stand 0.99

01:19:43.980 Rahab hiding spies 0.89

01:19:46.060 maybe 0.96

01:19:46.400 right yeah yeah and the he the the egyptian midwives right the hebrew women man they just

01:19:53.940 they give birth too quickly no they didn't you were there but but but what does it say the egyptian 0.96

01:19:59.080 midwives it says they feared god yeah and they could because they knew that it was a wrong fool

01:20:03.400 but see yeah protecting the spies who were um doing a service to god or for god and she 0.60

01:20:12.200 acknowledge that. And so I think, again, it just goes back to what is your purpose? What are you

01:20:16.960 trying to get done? What are you trying to do? And here's the thing. It's like, and this is what's

01:20:22.140 been so hard for the last 18 months is like, all right, we got to know the scripture. You got to

01:20:25.720 know the scripture. But in order to use the scripture scripturally, you have to also know

01:20:33.560 you need to have a good anthropology, but the scripture gives you that. But you need to know

01:20:38.260 what's going on so like so with all the covet stuff it's like part of what's been so hard for

01:20:42.740 me as a pastor is i realized like okay i know the bible and and i always want to be growing in my

01:20:47.140 knowledge of the bible but then all of a sudden i felt like i but i now all of a sudden i need to

01:20:50.980 be an epidemiologist and i need to know all the stats about covet and and i need to know all this

01:20:56.660 i need to have like be you know a professional in constitutional theory and you know and

01:21:02.000 constitutional law because i need so i need to know the constitution now now this i should have

01:21:05.980 known more of. And I was convicted over the last 18 months. I should have known more about our

01:21:09.600 nation, our history, our laws, the constitution. And so I've been playing catch up for 18 months.

01:21:13.940 And by God's grace, I've grown in understanding the constitution. But even with this second piece,

01:21:18.140 COVID, my point is this. So the Egyptian midwives, they're lying, but it's because 0.99

01:21:26.140 the Bible condones and says, out of a fear of God. So it's a righteous lie. It's the lie of 1.00

01:21:32.160 necessity. There's a whole doctrine on that. R.C. Sproul talks about it a little bit, the

01:21:35.900 a lie of necessity. But the point is what makes it a lie of necessity and what makes it fear of God

01:21:43.160 is that the lives of these babies are at risk. And so that's where you got to know that second

01:21:47.900 piece, the stats with COVID, but not just with COVID, but with the vaccine. So what I would say

01:21:53.720 is if there is a Christian who in their conscience, like they've been researching the vaccine and 0.88

01:22:00.240 protein spikes and altering DNA, because these aren't your average vaccines. There's some new 0.58

01:22:07.600 stuff with it. And if they're looking into the vaccines and they're looking into the risk and

01:22:10.900 all these kinds of things, and they've determined, I think that for me and my family, let's say they

01:22:17.000 have a teenager, a 13-year-old, and they're saying, all right, the data is if my 13-year-old gets

01:22:21.320 COVID, they're fine. But if they get this vaccine, the vaccine is actually 3.7 times more dangerous

01:22:29.380 that there'd be a serious altercation with the vaccine than if they got COVID.

01:22:34.380 So I actually, as a father, I have a responsibility over my wife and my children

01:22:39.180 to protect their physical safety, and I need to make wise decisions.

01:22:44.020 And, you know, so anyway, so my point is if they start mandating,

01:22:46.740 you know, 13-year-old mandated has to get a vaccine to go to school,

01:22:49.960 which that's kind of coming down the line, as a father, I might say,

01:22:53.820 well, first, I wouldn't send my kid to public school.

01:22:56.520 But, but, you know, let's, let's just, let's just say, you know, it gets mandated.

01:23:01.060 Then, then that would be one of those instances where I would first resist.

01:23:04.720 And if, if I couldn't resist successfully, that might be an instance where, where I would

01:23:10.440 be like, all right, I've gone through all these steps.

01:23:13.000 I've tried to honor, I've tried to do this. 0.98

01:23:15.060 And now I think I'm at, in a Rahab situation. 0.95

01:23:17.980 I'm going to, I'm going to call my friends vaccine card guy. 0.97

01:23:21.100 I think it's one of those things with like, what helped me obey God, like rather than

01:23:25.940 men like i think it's like right i think if i phrase it that way it makes it helps me better

01:23:31.340 reconcile what i'm doing because i don't think there's a such thing as wrongdoing unless the

01:23:36.620 wrongdoing ultimately causes you to sin against god if that makes any sense you know what i mean 0.97

01:23:40.660 so like you you talked about the egyptian um women when who's it pharaohs like oh yeah kill all the

01:23:46.220 you know so it's like yeah that's gonna cause me to disobey god so i can't obey you so i wouldn't

01:23:53.700 i would not phrase that as a lie i think i just i for me just to make myself feel no no you're

01:24:00.800 right you're right if it has caused me to sin against god if it's just like oh this random

01:24:06.680 human being called asked me to do something that is totally immoral and in order for me to get

01:24:12.660 around that i got to do this you know that i under god then like for example with underground churches

01:24:16.920 or or attending church even as they exactly you know i i was all about that like i still am last

01:24:23.100 summer i'm like so nobody cares what they're talking about let's go let's go to church like

01:24:27.160 what do you mean because i feel like the lord will honor honor that because we're ultimately going

01:24:32.020 to honor him to to to um to obey a command that he like he explicitly gave at least in hebrews

01:24:42.920 like we have to gather and so i trust that the lord will protect us and even just like with i

01:24:49.160 don't know Daniel I think it was his um Shadrach Meshach and Abednego even if he doesn't if he

01:24:53.980 doesn't right even if he doesn't and same thing with COVID like I spoke earlier about like you

01:24:59.140 know you know the disease is not that serious for most people that are not trust my immune system

01:25:03.400 but even if when I got it it led to my death I was I mean I don't I don't have a death wish or

01:25:10.500 anything like that I'm not you know you know I don't have that kind of but but I understand that

01:25:16.340 the lord is sovereign and my days are my last day on earth is what's what this is going to be

01:25:21.980 there's nothing that i can do i'm not saying to be reckless because at that point you're testing

01:25:25.780 the lord but i trust god in that whatever it's my time to go out of here it's my time to go out of

01:25:33.360 here so i can't live in you know i can't live in fear i think there's a there's a place for taking

01:25:37.920 reasonable precautions for things you know wash your hands you know um if i'm not even really

01:25:45.740 big on the whole social distance thing i was telling people if you're okay with me giving you

01:25:49.000 a hug i'll give you a hug i mean how do we give a holy kiss and it says it over and over and the

01:25:53.940 holy kiss you got to do i mean i got to be near you you know so i but you know washing your hands

01:25:59.360 and whatever it else whatever i'm cool with that but from the very beginning i'm just like this

01:26:04.540 thing is something that doesn't sound like as much that we can do to control it so why not just

01:26:09.360 continue to live trust the lord and if you know like to say if i die i die i don't want to say

01:26:14.300 yeah no no i know yeah amen god is sovereign and and the funny thing about covid is that last year

01:26:21.400 they were scaring us half to death um around the holidays i feel like they're going to do it again

01:26:25.200 this year and i'm from atlanta and i you know up until the top of the year i was single and i live

01:26:31.460 alone i had a had a dog and i'm in this house for months on end alone because churches aren't

01:26:38.140 meeting no one really you know wants to come over out of feet you know so i'm just like

01:26:41.520 so i went home i'm i'm thank god god i feel like when the lord talks about giving us a way of

01:26:47.080 escape i see these little graces that he gives us when you had gavin newsom with his french

01:26:51.600 laundry situation and then you had the mayor of chicago with her little going to some kind of

01:26:57.220 i don't know rally and then the barber yeah our own mayor and nancy pelosi yeah you know yeah

01:27:03.240 nancy pelosi going to get her hair like they kept doing they were i was like rules for thee but oh

01:27:07.640 no no I'm going home and I'm so glad I did because I didn't get COVID until like very recently like

01:27:14.140 very recently I'm I mean I'm not good ways out at this point but imagine if I didn't go home and

01:27:20.100 visit my family for Thanksgiving and Christmas and because I'm fearing something whatever I just

01:27:26.280 thought about that so we just have to live our lives I think there's a way to do it with wisdom

01:27:30.040 um and I don't think it's reckless my I always tell people I don't think it's reckless and I

01:27:35.240 don't think it's sin of course not to trust God and so if that means I'm going to church and you

01:27:40.920 can spread the virus I can spread it at Walmart dear you know that's right so and Walmart is wide

01:27:45.960 open so I just feel like you know we I I was I actually had a moment where I was very much

01:27:52.060 dejected and I was probably bitter with a lot of believers um after last the response that a lot

01:27:58.560 of people gave after last year but I'm so grateful to God that I've seen um and this doesn't mean

01:28:04.040 that i've not had to grow as well but i'm so grateful to see that so many people have figured

01:28:08.340 it out like oh yeah this is you know not necessarily the virus is a farce but even though it might have

01:28:14.220 been i talked it in the lab there was a research you know but but whatever definitely whatever it

01:28:23.360 is they're they're they're using this they're taking every opportunity to some you know push

01:28:29.240 the world into submission and you know the next thing is going to be i read something earlier

01:28:32.800 about climate change i think al gore came out and said something recently about climate change and

01:28:37.320 how we need to make take drastic and in in rapid action i'm like oh they're gonna try to shut down

01:28:42.180 the world again lord so i just pray that um the saints that the church overall is just ready for

01:28:48.520 what's coming and that we will be faithful that we will stand strong and that we will suffer well

01:28:53.240 because i don't see i think we'll have little moments of like i want to say reprieve but

01:28:59.660 definitely moments where it won't be as hostile but i i don't see things getting

01:29:03.740 that i don't think things are going back to normal to be honest i don't see that um it would

01:29:09.880 be great if i would love to be wrong about this i trust me i mean like i'm getting married soon so

01:29:15.540 i would love right for things to be back to normal but i don't i don't see it so but i trust that god

01:29:22.360 would allow us i understand yeah i trust that god would have allow us to have joy and peace even in

01:29:27.560 the midst of it though. And I do pray that we have that. So, yeah. Amen. I'm in the post mill

01:29:33.900 camp. So I do think things are gonna get better, but here's the thing about post mills. We think

01:29:39.440 that things are going to get better, but it could be 40,000 years. So, so I, you know, I believe

01:29:44.340 that I believe the church is militant and triumphant and is only increasing and only

01:29:48.540 growing. And, but just like stocks, you know, it's not always this gradual incline. There are

01:29:53.040 dips along the way but nothing in post-mill theology you know and that and that eschatology

01:29:57.360 says that america is going to make it just the the church is going you know i will build my church

01:30:02.460 in the gates of hell but it may be god may see fit in his in his providence and his sovereignty

01:30:08.360 and wisdom and love he may see fit that what is everything he does is for his glory and for the

01:30:13.040 good of those who love him and are called according to his purposes god may know that in his sovereignty

01:30:17.200 that what is for our good, the good of the church, is for America to eventually implode or to have

01:30:23.800 a civil war. I would argue that right now we are in, you know, like the Cold War between America

01:30:28.120 and Russia. I would say we are in a cold civil war right now. And that may turn into an actual

01:30:33.100 civil war in America. And in which case, I'm really glad that I moved from California to Texas.

01:30:38.700 So I feel like I'll be safer, you know. But you're right. The point is, we don't know what's

01:30:44.220 going to happen circumstantially um the secret things belong to the lord right his sovereign

01:30:49.560 will his providence but those things which he has revealed belong to us and our children forever and

01:30:56.040 what we know is that we win and even if you're pre-mill you know i know daryl and virgil you

01:31:00.500 know like you know even if you're pre-mill we still both both of us post-mill pre-mill on-mill

01:31:05.520 we all believe that we win we just we differ on how how we win how we win you know exactly

01:31:10.680 You know, I always say the pre-mill says that we win because Christ wins, and Christ wins despite the church.

01:31:17.500 And I say the post-mill says we win because Christ wins, and Christ wins with the church.

01:31:22.000 And the church is the battering ram that he uses to ram up against the gates of hell.

01:31:26.260 That's my opinion.

01:31:26.940 But either way, we all believe that we're going to win because Christ is victorious.

01:31:31.560 And you're right.

01:31:32.560 We need to be bold.

01:31:34.640 We need to be courageous.

01:31:35.580 We need to resist wherever it's required to love God and to love our neighbor.

01:31:39.780 but we also need I like what you said we need to learn to suffer well and I think right now

01:31:44.400 that's good for us to hear because I think a lot of Christians we went from being scared

01:31:48.240 a bunch of people got pruned you know but then but then there's a remnant that's and and the

01:31:53.620 remnant I I'm encouraged to see a growth and you know courage growth and bravery growth and all

01:31:59.220 these things this increase but with that sometimes can come arrogance rebellion just for the sake of

01:32:05.860 rebelling. And so I do think we need to remember that like, yes, we want to resist. Yes. We want

01:32:09.900 to be strong, courageous. Um, but, but the blood of the martyrs is the seedbed of the church.

01:32:14.800 One of the ways that we win at times is by getting, getting the crap kicked out of us

01:32:21.100 and, uh, and taking it well, you know? So, but everything, all that's fantastic. I'm so honored

01:32:28.620 to have you on the show, Constance. It's been my privilege. I hope you've enjoyed it. I hope our

01:32:33.600 listeners have enjoyed it. Can you, I'll give you the final word, uh, tell our listeners how they

01:32:38.200 can follow your ministry and keep up with what you're doing. Sure. Yeah. So, um, they can follow

01:32:42.480 me at, uh, I was going to say www, but I don't think you can say that anymore. It's not cool.

01:32:47.660 At truthandfire.com. That's the blog. Um, you can also get the podcast there. Um, uh, the podcast

01:32:53.780 is on Spotify. Um, uh, app was it Apple? Was it, was it iTunes, iTunes, iTunes, iTunes, but I don't

01:33:01.280 know i get confused but yeah on one of those things uh but anyway it's wherever you you get

01:33:06.420 your podcast is there um and then as far as social media i'm pretty much i'm on twitter and instagram

01:33:11.460 i had a facebook page but i don't know but um on social media i'm verite et feu which means truth

01:33:16.940 and fire in french that's v-e-r-i-t-e-e-t-f-e-u um and so but i really would encourage everyone

01:33:24.420 to follow me on truthandfire.com because that's where everything is being moved and where a lot

01:33:29.920 of our information will be coming from very soon. So yeah, yeah. Thank you. Great. Well,

01:33:35.920 thanks so much for coming on and God bless. Thank you so much. As a special thank you for

01:33:41.680 your gift of any amount, we'll be happy to send you a free digital book from our store.

01:33:46.140 To access this offer, visit rightresponseministries.com slash offer. We highly

01:33:51.680 recommend Pastor Joel's book, Am I Truly Saved? If you or someone you know has wrestled with doubts

01:33:56.860 about the love of God, this would be a great resource.

01:34:00.360 As a reminder, to get this offer, go to rightresponseministries.com

01:34:03.880 slash offer.

01:34:04.960 And thank you for your generous support.

The NXR Podcast - September 29, 2021

THEOLOGY APPLIED - Health Mandates, Tucker Carlson, & Nicki Minaj

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