The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - How The “Woke” Military Ignores Real Trauma

00:00:00.000 Hi, this is Pastor Joel Webbin with Right Response Ministries, and you're listening to Theology

00:00:04.540 Applied. In this episode of Theology Applied, I was privileged to have a special guest,

00:00:09.140 Jeremy Stalnecker, who is the CEO of Mighty Oaks Foundation. Mighty Oaks Foundation seeks to serve

00:00:16.460 our military, both active duty and veterans, as well as first responders, and primarily,

00:00:22.560 they serve these individuals in the realm of trauma, specifically PTSD, addressing these

00:00:30.440 real issues of pain and difficulty, not with the wisdom of man, but through a biblical worldview.

00:00:38.540 In addition to this topic, we also beg the question of, is the military going woke? We hear

00:00:45.040 lots of different things that are concerning as conservative Christians in the news headlines,

00:00:49.840 but what's actually happening on the ground with our troops.

00:00:54.580 Tune into this episode.

00:00:56.460 It'll be a real treat.

00:00:57.740 Real quick, before we hop into our episode,

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00:01:28.840 Without further ado, here's today's episode of Theology Applied.

00:01:33.300 Applying God's Word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.

00:01:39.000 All right. So my guest for this episode is Jeremy Stalnecker. He is the CEO of Mighty Oaks

00:01:49.440 Foundation. So without further ado, Jeremy, would you take a moment, introduce yourself to our

00:01:54.020 listeners? Tell us a little bit about, before you get into your ministry, tell us about your story,

00:01:58.940 your testimony in terms of Christ and being in the military, and then tell us a little bit about

00:02:04.500 your ministry to our troops? Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for having me on. I really

00:02:08.540 appreciate it, and I appreciate the work that you guys do. I enjoy listening to your interviews.

00:02:16.120 It's right response, right? And it really is, and that's what this is all about, and

00:02:19.460 I think we have a common understanding of what the answer to most of these issues are, and I

00:02:25.740 appreciate you spending some time talking about this. A lot of people don't, so thank you for

00:02:29.980 doing it my my story um you know i was raised in a very conservative christian home my dad

00:02:36.040 was a pastor and i pastored for over 30 years and um i always talk about going to him when i was 14

00:02:44.100 years old and you know if you're raised in a pastor's home it's kind of the family business

00:02:47.600 everyone expects for you to become a pastor which is what's gonna happen holy spirit calling

00:02:52.480 of god doesn't mean anything your dad's a pastor so that's what you're gonna do and i knew that

00:02:56.640 that's not what I wanted to do. I talked to my dad when I was 14 and said, Dad, would you be okay

00:03:02.060 if I didn't become a pastor? And he said what pastor dads are supposed to say. He said, Son,

00:03:06.880 be whatever God wants you to be. That's the best thing you could possibly do. I said, Dad, I believe

00:03:11.060 God wants me to enlist in the Marine Corps. He said, Son, God does not want you to enlist in the Marine Corps.

00:03:14.960 That's not what God wants you to do. I know this. So we talked that out. And, you know, over the

00:03:21.360 course of time, I went to college. My parents wanted me to go to college. That was kind of

00:03:25.100 stipulation you're going to go to college what you do after that is up to you and went through the

00:03:29.740 process of going through a commissioning program i was commissioned into the marine corps in 1999

00:03:35.420 as a second lieutenant made my way through quantico virginia where all marine officers go

00:03:40.700 went to infantry officer course and served with the first battalion fifth marines based out of

00:03:45.660 camp pendleton here in southern california as an infantry platoon commander just a really for me

00:03:52.700 that was the culmination of everything I had wanted to be and wanted to do. I accepted Christ

00:03:58.560 when I was younger and I really did. That was never something I never had a crisis of faith

00:04:04.660 per se or anything like that. But growing up in a Christian environment, growing up around good

00:04:11.940 godly parents, I went to a Christian college. It was very easy to live that out. And it wasn't

00:04:17.620 really until I got into the Marine Corps that living out my faith and walking my faith out,

00:04:22.680 whatever phrase one would like to use, really became something I had to consider and something

00:04:27.860 I had to think about. You know, that was the first time I found myself in a secular environment,

00:04:33.440 not to mention a Marine Corps secular environment. I really had to understand what it was to be a

00:04:38.620 Christian, what it was to stand for Christ and live for the Lord in that environment.

00:04:41.860 went to went to iraq as part of the initial invasion into iraq in 2003 we deployed to

00:04:50.500 to kuwait january of that year our infantry battalion did along with the rest of the first

00:04:55.780 marine division and on march 19th of 2003 a lot of folks will remember we went into the country

00:05:02.940 our battalion first battalion fifth marines was the first marine infantry battalion into iraq in

00:05:08.320 2003. First KIA of the war was one of our lieutenants, and we went from southern Iraq,

00:05:15.620 made our way to Baghdad, and eventually the Battle of Baghdad on April 10th, that was also

00:05:20.280 our infantry battalion. So, you know, a very, at that time, what we call a kinetic war environment,

00:05:27.540 you know, things changed a lot, but we were very much, you know, mechanized unit moving from south

00:05:33.960 the north to secure the largest city in the country, a city the size of Los Angeles, and that's

00:05:40.160 what we ended up doing on April 10th, and it was in that process, really, so I had a wife, I had

00:05:45.720 two small children, I was a part of a good church, but it was really at that time in my life where I

00:05:52.320 understood the sovereignty of God, I understood that, you know, the enemy doesn't care who you

00:05:58.560 are, where you come from, what you look like, what your background is, doesn't care, and so many of

00:06:03.500 those truths came to clarity in my heart and mind and understanding who God is and, you know, the

00:06:10.120 fact that we trust God and we lean on God and we move forward has really become a driver in my life

00:06:15.180 and changed in many ways the direction of my life. Came back from Iraq and because of a lot of

00:06:23.140 circumstances had already made the decision to get out of the Marine Corps. I came back June 1st

00:06:28.580 So 2003, July 1st of 2003, I was serving on a church staff, the church that we had been attending.

00:06:34.900 My pastor, I don't have a pastoral background.

00:06:40.140 I don't have a seminary background.

00:06:42.120 I have a criminal justice degree, and I was an infantry officer.

00:06:44.460 But my pastor said, hey, we've got a place for you here.

00:06:46.840 If you'd like to come and serve, we'll bring you on to the staff.

00:06:50.440 And that's what I did.

00:06:52.760 Very, very difficult transition for me.

00:06:54.580 the first year out of the Marine Corps while working at a church where I know people loved

00:06:59.780 me and cared for me. I had a pastor that cared for me. I was an absolute train wreck. I was a

00:07:04.620 mess at home, two small kids, a wife that loved me, and I was angry all the time, which manifested

00:07:11.400 itself in throwing things and hitting things. Not my wife or my kids, thankfully, but just about

00:07:16.000 everything else. On a church staff, blowing up in staff meetings, getting thrown out of staff

00:07:22.800 meetings eventually after about 11 months of that my pastor called me to his office and said this

00:07:28.120 is just not working i love you i care for you i care for your family but you're going to have to

00:07:32.840 go somewhere else if you don't get this thing figured out sent me away for a week said come

00:07:36.820 back at the end of the week and tell me what you're going to do this is 2003 um i guess 2004

00:07:41.880 at that time post-traumatic stress and you know the issues we're going to talk about today

00:07:46.100 weren't things that the church was talking about and um you know i knew my pastor loved me but he

00:07:51.540 didn't know how to deal with me. And that's fair looking back. And through a process of

00:07:57.860 conversations with my wife and praying and, you know, really trying to understand where I was,

00:08:02.660 I realized that so much of what I was doing was my fault and my responsibility. It wasn't everyone

00:08:08.180 else in my life. Everyone's a jerk. Everyone is a problem. No one knows where I've been or what 1.00

00:08:12.280 I've done. That's what I was telling myself. I mean, that's the story. You know, I continue to

00:08:15.840 tell myself, but really it was, I was not doing what I needed to do. I was not living the way

00:08:21.460 that I should have been living. And, um, once I got ahold of that truth, the personal responsibility

00:08:27.360 aspect, uh, everything changed. Um, it didn't change overnight, but I was able to move forward

00:08:33.740 and, um, stayed at that church for another four years, served on that staff for a total of five

00:08:38.200 years, eventually pastored a church in the San Francisco area for another seven years before

00:08:43.160 doing what I do now, working with veterans and our military. So a long road, interesting road,

00:08:49.840 and kind of a convergence of the military and my ministry life now in, you know, doing what I do

00:08:55.300 now. And I'm thankful for the path that God brought us down. But yeah, it was a very interesting

00:09:00.780 transition. But here we are. Now we serve the military. Praise God. Well, tell us about serving

00:09:07.180 the military. So you've told us your story, a little bit of your testimony, how you got up to

00:09:11.140 that point. So what is it that you do with Mighty Oaks Foundation? So we work with essentially four

00:09:19.320 groups, veterans, active duty service members, first responders, that's police officers and

00:09:24.220 firefighters, and then spouses. And we could talk about all that is involved in that. But

00:09:30.040 there are a lot of programs for all of those groups of folks, particularly the veterans and

00:09:36.680 the active duty service members. A lot of programs that deal with post-traumatic stress and combat

00:09:40.480 trauma, you know, other, we'll say mental health related issues, a lot of programs.

00:09:47.360 What most of those programs fail to deal with or address, however, is the spiritual need.

00:09:53.880 And what we understand is that you can, you know, put a Band-Aid on a wound, but that's

00:09:59.100 all it is if you haven't dealt with the actual problem.

00:10:01.640 And so many of our service members, whether it's veterans or active duty service members,

00:10:05.560 and really in our first responder community as well the programs that they have access to

00:10:10.860 are putting a band-aid on a you know a gaping chest we're going to get a hole in their chest

00:10:16.340 and and we're covering it up we're trying to change habits or whatever and not dealing with

00:10:21.160 the spiritual issue the founder of the mighty oaks foundation who i work with chad robishow

00:10:27.340 is also a marine veteran i'm a marine veteran and as we were working through a lot of this a long

00:10:33.220 time ago, 10 years ago, we decided very clearly and very, I was going to say very fundamentally,

00:10:45.720 that's not the right word, but we decided that what we would do as Christians who have found

00:10:51.120 healing through a relationship with Jesus Christ and aligning our lives to his purpose for our

00:10:56.020 life is we would move beyond the programs and the therapies, all the other stuff that

00:11:02.680 service members have access to and address specifically that spiritual need. And in the

00:11:10.320 beginning, folks said, if you do that, you will never have access to the active duty military.

00:11:14.520 You'll never have access to police officers and firefighters. Maybe you'll get some veterans to

00:11:18.620 come to your program. But if you talk about God, talk about who he is, talk about what it is to

00:11:22.800 have a relationship with him through Christ. If you talk about these kind of spiritual healing or

00:11:27.380 what the Department of Defense would call spiritual resiliency pieces, you'll never have access to

00:11:32.060 real people who are really hurting. And we said, well, we'll just do the best we can to see what

00:11:37.360 God opens up. And that's what we've done for the last 10 years. We've had more than 4,000 people

00:11:42.860 come through our week-long programs where we bring people to one of our facilities across the

00:11:47.940 country. We spend a week with them talking about what it is to align your life to the life that

00:11:53.460 your creator created you to live. Most of the folks who attend our programs are not Christians.

00:11:58.520 Many of them would have what they would call no faith at all.

00:12:01.900 Some of them might even be adversarial to God because of the loss of friends and so forth.

00:12:07.260 They would say they hate God or they're angry at God, but they tried everything else.

00:12:10.840 They end up with us because they have nowhere else to go through donors.

00:12:14.240 We pay for the programs. We pay for travel. So there's no you know, there's nothing.

00:12:18.880 They're not losing anything in the process. So they'll come and they'll sit and we'll say simply observe what we do.

00:12:25.360 Watch what we do. Listen to what we say. Look at the lives that we are demonstrating to you through testimony and compare your life to that and see if you have what you need to continue moving forward.

00:12:37.820 We talk about, again, God, the creator. If there's a creator, then there's a plan.

00:12:41.440 If there's a plan and we need to understand that if we align to that plan, then the traumas and the difficulties and the trials and the stuff that is holding you bondage and captive will no longer have control over you.

00:12:54.280 And we've, again, seen 4,000 folks come through those week-long programs.

00:12:58.620 We've spoken to more than 150,000 active duty troops, whether it's in bases or conferences

00:13:04.540 across the country, as unit commanders and unit leaders have reached out to us and said

00:13:08.800 things like, we don't really care what you do or what you say, but we need help.

00:13:13.240 And if you can come and help us, we'll open the door for that.

00:13:16.260 God has been very, very good to us in just opening doors of opportunity that really should

00:13:22.080 not be open to us.

00:13:23.160 And yet we have a very good rapport with the active duty military and certainly on the veteran side.

00:13:27.900 So it's been incredible to watch and be a part of.

00:13:31.060 Praise God.

00:13:31.660 Well, let's talk about PTSD for a little bit.

00:13:34.060 So just so you know that where I'm at, you know, we talked a little bit before we started recording this episode.

00:13:38.700 But for me personally, as a pastor and being a Reformed Baptist pastor and conservative in my convictions, I would prescribe to biblical counseling.

00:13:48.820 I think that a lot of secular psychology

00:13:52.140 well you know what

00:13:53.840 even that statement that I'm about to make

00:13:55.640 is me softening it but not being completely honest

00:13:57.760 I think secular psychology period

00:13:59.880 not just a lot of it but period 1.00

00:14:01.220 is garbage 0.99

00:14:02.440 I think that it does 0.99

00:14:04.320 the problem with secular psychology in my assessment

00:14:07.880 is that the secular psychologists

00:14:10.100 by virtue being secular

00:14:11.620 by virtue of their denial of Christ

00:14:14.200 and his lordship and his truth 1.00

00:14:15.860 that the unbeliever who is

00:14:18.000 at enmity with God, who's going to somehow help a person heal, well, you know, exactly what you

00:14:25.380 were saying. You say, do you have a creator? And if there is a creator, there's a plan that this

00:14:30.260 creator has, you know, and there's a design, right? There's a goal. There's something that

00:14:35.780 we're working towards. There's an image of this creator that we're meant to reflect. There is a

00:14:42.920 model that we're meant to emulate and in secular psychology for the unbeliever it's uh one i think 1.00

00:14:49.200 that they they get the starting place wrong so on the one hand they have bad anthropology they don't 0.88

00:14:55.380 adhere to the word of god as truth and what the word of god says not only about god himself but

00:14:59.920 what the word of god says about man man in his design which was originally good and without

00:15:06.200 flaw, but then also man in light of his sin and his depravity and the curse of sin and all these

00:15:13.960 kinds of aspects. And so if you have bad anthropology, because you don't adhere to the

00:15:18.620 Bible, then your starting place of who man is, is off. But then even perhaps more important than

00:15:26.120 that, the ending place of where we're moving toward is for you and I, we would say that we

00:15:32.240 want in our ministry, whether it be with civilians or veterans or whoever it may be, our goal is

00:15:39.400 by discipling people that they might be forged more and more into the perfect image of the

00:15:48.040 perfect God-man, Christ Jesus, that he's the model. He is the end goal, that we are trying

00:15:56.700 to be formed more into his character. And so if you're rejecting theology, and namely doctrine

00:16:02.340 of the Son, the perfect God-man who is the model, and if you're rejecting the Bible's anthropology,

00:16:08.420 who man is in God's original design, and then also in light of sin, then I just feel like no

00:16:15.140 matter how many big words you have, and no matter how many degrees you have on your wall,

00:16:20.100 I don't really care to hear you. And I would recognize that all truth is God's truth. So

00:16:24.820 if we find a Babylonian library, then I would be of the assessment of let's plunder the library

00:16:30.020 and let's see if anything is true. But if it is true, it's only because even unbelievers are 1.00

00:16:35.420 created in the image of God. And because of common grace, unbelievers still can discover 0.81

00:16:42.460 and affirm things that are true in light of God's world, because they live in God's world,

00:16:48.700 they've been created by God. But when it comes to psychology, it's not just like in engineering

00:16:54.600 or building a bridge or discovering a cure to cancer,

00:16:57.760 you're talking about something that is intimately involved

00:17:01.100 with who is man and who is man meant to be, 1.00

00:17:05.220 which that's something that I believe an unbeliever can't really grasp 0.90

00:17:09.360 if they reject Christ. 0.99

00:17:12.580 And so my point is in saying all that,

00:17:15.780 I prescribe to biblical counseling.

00:17:18.800 However, I do recognize that there are physiological things at play,

00:17:23.420 There are spiritual things, which that's what you guys are emphasizing,

00:17:27.780 that the world and its attempts to serve people who are hurting

00:17:32.140 won't acknowledge hardly at all the spiritual side.

00:17:36.100 But there is also, we're not Gnostics, so we are spirit and body,

00:17:40.140 and there can be physiological problems.

00:17:43.220 So when I'm offering biblical counsel as a pastor,

00:17:46.860 we talk about the Bible, we'll talk about the spiritual issues,

00:17:49.760 But I'll also say, hey, it sounds like you're only sleeping four hours a night.

00:17:55.420 You're probably going to be a little cranky.

00:17:57.160 You should sleep because God made you a human being.

00:17:59.560 You should exercise.

00:18:00.920 What are you eating?

00:18:02.580 You know, those kinds of things.

00:18:03.640 And then, of course, if it's beyond those basic things like exercise and sleep,

00:18:07.740 then I always encourage them, in addition to getting biblical counseling,

00:18:11.140 go and see a general physician, which is different than go and see a psychologist

00:18:14.940 or a psychiatrist, but go and see a doctor.

00:18:17.120 We believe in medicine.

00:18:17.960 And we believe that God made a spirit and body and that all truth is God's truth. 0.66

00:18:22.380 And I do believe that unbelievers can discover and affirm right and true things about man 0.96

00:18:27.060 and his physical body, or at least we could up until a few years ago when we started thinking 0.95

00:18:31.780 boys were girls and girls were boys.

00:18:33.420 But anyway, so all that being said, PTSD, I don't know a lot.

00:18:38.400 I really, I think our listeners and I personally would benefit from hearing you.

00:18:42.160 How much of that is physiological?

00:18:43.740 How much of that is spiritual?

00:18:44.960 And what do you do as a Christian trying to help people with this, but without giving into, you know, godless psychology or what portion might be right?

00:18:55.200 What's your perspective on that issue?

00:18:57.680 Yeah, so that was a really big question.

00:19:00.360 Yeah, I know, I'm sorry.

00:19:01.100 Probably the next six or seven hours, breaking all of that down.

00:19:04.780 Right.

00:19:05.180 But no, it's a great question.

00:19:06.540 So great question. I think that that is what we as those who would hold to the sufficiency of scripture.

00:19:14.120 That's what we struggle with. And it's a struggle because, you know, all the things that you just illuminated.

00:19:20.620 We go to doctors. I believe in the sufficiency of scripture.

00:19:23.720 But if I have a broken arm, I'm going to go to a doctor to have that arm set because they have the experience and the tools and the resources to do that.

00:19:31.440 what so on the front end going back to your original point of starting point when we talk

00:19:38.740 about clinical treatments for post-traumatic stress disorder and i'll talk about how we view

00:19:43.880 that but when we talk about clinical treatments that would include secular psychology but it

00:19:49.180 would include a lot of other things too there are therapies there are medications there are a lot

00:19:54.280 of things that fall into that clinical care bucket the the problem with clinical care a lot

00:20:00.980 problems but one of the major problems and the probably the biggest problem for veterans and

00:20:06.560 service members who are struggling to try to figure all this out is the starting point a

00:20:11.300 clinician will say we're going to start with therapies that therapy will probably include

00:20:16.200 medication we have folks who attend our program that are on more than 20 medications a day 20

00:20:21.340 medications a day because a clinician has said well you need this for sleep and you need this

00:20:27.320 for awake and you need this when you feel bad and this when you feel manic, you know, and they'll

00:20:32.760 try to balance it all out chemically. There are a lot of other therapies and a lot of other

00:20:37.640 therapeutics that can be used, but that's their starting point. And if somewhere along the

00:20:42.380 treatment route, something spiritual needs to be interjected, then they'll include that as well

00:20:48.460 in their therapy. Their starting point is clinical and somewhere along the way, there may be

00:20:54.880 spiritual, if it's needed. We would say the starting point is spiritual. We have to deal with

00:21:02.560 who you are before a holy God, your standing before God, the fact that you were created,

00:21:09.120 that there is design, and the reason you're struggling so much in your relationships,

00:21:14.160 etc. The reason you're struggling to figure out your path forward is not because of what

00:21:18.380 happened to you, but because you're not aiming at the right target. You're not moving in the

00:21:22.320 right direction we start with the spiritual and if something clinical is helpful along the way

00:21:27.960 then we can look at that as it aids in spiritual healing gotcha now to your point there are both

00:21:36.520 psychological and physiological impacts of post-traumatic stress and this is all still

00:21:43.340 being researched and still being understood on one hand you have traumatic brain injury which

00:21:49.060 you know for many many years until fairly recently the way that it would manifest itself

00:21:55.160 the symptoms of a traumatic brain injury a concussion for those that aren't familiar

00:21:58.580 because of an explosion because of you know head injury which is very very common in the military

00:22:04.220 for our combat veterans in particular the symptoms of that traumatic brain injury looked very much

00:22:10.720 like post-traumatic stress disorder the anger the emotion you know uncontrolled emotions you know

00:22:17.200 all the things that go into post-traumatic stress disorder. And so we were diagnosing them the same

00:22:21.840 way, not addressing the physical, the very real physical, biological, physiological issues

00:22:27.320 associated with a concussion. And particularly when there have been multiple concussions,

00:22:32.600 the TBI, the traumatic brain injury has a real impact on the body. And that needs to be dealt

00:22:36.800 with. Thankfully, again, doctors, to your point, have figured this out and have begun to treat that

00:22:42.480 separate from post-traumatic stress disorder. And that's fantastic. And so we're seeing some great

00:22:47.520 things happen there. Post-traumatic stress disorder is very interesting and it goes back

00:22:54.480 to the creation piece. God created us perfect again, as you mentioned earlier, and he created

00:23:00.620 us with some presets in our brain that are designed to keep us safe. One of those things

00:23:07.840 is how we handle trauma. We have a subconscious response to traumatic events that take place in

00:23:13.860 our lives. It is a place in our brain where the limbic system where information is stored and

00:23:22.960 it's stored in a way that we don't even always recognize so that if we find ourselves in a

00:23:28.220 similar situation in the future, this stored information kicks in all those presets so that

00:23:34.440 we can respond better. We were in this situation and something bad happened. An example that we

00:23:40.520 use, and it's a great example because a lot of combat veterans can picture it, you are on a

00:23:46.120 forward operating base somewhere. It's a fairly secure situation, but you're being mortared by

00:23:51.080 the enemy every day. This becomes very commonplace. Mortars start to fall one night as they have

00:23:57.460 Every other night, you have a bunkmate, and he's taking his time because this happens every single day.

00:24:05.400 You start screaming at him.

00:24:06.680 The mortars are coming.

00:24:07.600 We need to get to safety.

00:24:09.000 He looks at you and says this happens all the time.

00:24:11.180 A mortar drops on top of him, and one of your combat friends has lost his life.

00:24:17.320 That's a traumatic event, obviously.

00:24:19.020 your limbic system is designed to store that information so that the next time you find

00:24:23.960 yourself in that situation you respond subconsciously without thinking god gave us

00:24:28.840 that that's a very important thing that he put into us it's for survival it's for our own care

00:24:34.240 the problem is when you find yourself at home and you're getting your four-year-old ready for a

00:24:39.680 soccer game and she's taking too long to put her cleats on or put her shoes on to get out the door

00:24:44.460 and your brain says we've been here before another urgent situation similar to this happened someone

00:24:49.380 died and you lose control of yourself we can train this response we see this in our first responder

00:24:55.880 community a police officer will draw and present his weapon thousands of times at a target pulling

00:25:02.020 the trigger only when it needs to be pulled looking at the right target versus the wrong

00:25:05.820 target so that he's he's training that subconscious part of his brain to respond instinctively these

00:25:12.100 are all built into us by God. It's creation. So when we talk about post-traumatic stress and some

00:25:17.060 of the symptoms of post-traumatic stress, how people respond after traumatic events,

00:25:22.960 we need to understand that God created us the right way. But like everything else,

00:25:28.600 sin has perverted that and we're dealing with a perversion of what God meant for good.

00:25:34.340 So we're not broken. That's the point. We call it post-traumatic stress disorder. You're not

00:25:39.200 disordered. The event that you experienced may be disordered, but you're not broken when you

00:25:44.660 respond to something that is traumatic, including death or sexual trauma and a lot of these other

00:25:49.680 things that we would talk about as it relates to trauma. And so the way that we address that,

00:25:54.440 again, you know, there are physiological issues that are sometimes involved in that.

00:25:59.200 Thankfully, doctors, you know, physicians are learning and understanding that. And a lot of

00:26:05.520 good research has been done in that regard. But when it comes to how we behave, we have to accept

00:26:11.420 responsibility for our behavior. We have to understand that there is no excuse to behave

00:26:17.100 badly. There's not a good excuse to behave badly. And if you have experienced trauma,

00:26:21.960 you've experienced these things in your life as, you know, 70% of adults will experience an

00:26:26.220 acutely traumatic event in their life at some point. I would say it's more than that. Clinically,

00:26:30.880 we say it's 70%. That does not give you an excuse to behave badly. Well, how should I behave? You

00:26:39.040 should behave like a child of God if you're a Christian and understand what that is and move

00:26:43.820 toward that. Now, moving toward that is, again, very broad. We also have biblical counselors at

00:26:50.840 each one of our sessions who understand the application of scripture to the traumas of life

00:26:57.460 and moving toward the person God created you to be.

00:27:00.360 Again, we use this language.

00:27:01.680 It's very vague.

00:27:02.660 What it means is understanding what the Bible says

00:27:05.280 and living your life according to that.

00:27:08.420 And if you do that, it puts the rest of it in perspective.

00:27:11.460 Are there problems?

00:27:12.780 Are there issues because of your trauma?

00:27:14.760 Yeah, probably.

00:27:15.920 That's part of being human.

00:27:17.460 We see this throughout scripture.

00:27:19.120 You know, you think of Adam and Eve,

00:27:20.580 the trauma of being thrown out of the garden.

00:27:22.400 Adam and Eve, again, the trauma of finding out

00:27:24.820 that one of their sons murdered another.

00:27:27.040 What's the consequence of that?

00:27:28.960 There is one.

00:27:29.740 It's traumatic.

00:27:30.980 You think about Noah, who had to deal with being locked inside of the ark as his friends, those who were outside, the people he preached to for 120 years, are trying to get in, and they're drowning, and they're dying.

00:27:41.460 He would have heard it.

00:27:42.680 I guarantee there are people banging on that door and scratching on the side and trying to hang on, which may be why we find him doing some of the things that he did later in the story.

00:27:53.400 You know, throughout Scripture, we see trauma.

00:27:55.020 to include Jesus Christ in the garden as he sweat drops of blood I mean this is this is life life

00:28:00.580 is traumatic and trauma being a part of your life doesn't give you an excuse to behave badly

00:28:06.220 but you need to know how to move forward in spite of that and that how is in alignment with the

00:28:14.680 word of God that was a long answer I don't know if I got to your point there but yeah yeah no that

00:28:19.400 was great yeah i appreciate it so continuing in this vein but maybe maybe shifting gears slightly

00:28:27.060 you know one of the things we talked about you know before we started recording the episode was

00:28:31.600 uh in light of you know the things that we see in our news cycle and and now for me as a civilian

00:28:37.340 i don't get the inside scoop and so i you know but i have common sense and so i i'm willing to

00:28:42.580 bet that you know that um the headlines i well i wouldn't bet this i'll hope this i hope that

00:28:49.660 the headlines of the military going woke you know or for four star general or five star general you

00:28:56.480 know uh you know reading white fragility by robin d'angelo you know i i i hope that those things

00:29:03.360 may make the headlines with a few people you know big wigs in the military that really more

00:29:09.680 politicians. But I imagine and I hope that on the ground that that's not really seeping in. But

00:29:16.660 if we don't turn from our wicked ways as a nation and our culture, if we don't repent of these

00:29:22.820 things, then that is something that could happen and probably at least in trickles here and there

00:29:29.520 is happening. And I'm thinking about that in light of everything we've talked about thus far

00:29:34.360 in terms of living in a world of trauma.

00:29:38.020 You said life is traumatic because we live in God's world,

00:29:43.220 and so it's good, and yet we live in God's fallen world.

00:29:46.500 And so it's under a curse.

00:29:48.440 And the creation itself is not a curse,

00:29:51.260 but there is a curse that is set on creation because of man's sin.

00:29:55.860 And so creation itself is groaning with eager expectations

00:29:58.480 for the sons of God to be revealed.

00:30:00.060 And so we experience heartache, we experience tragedy,

00:30:02.660 We experience terrifying and traumatic situations.

00:30:08.040 And I would imagine, at least if I put myself into somebody's shoes

00:30:11.980 who's in the military, that if I'm waking up with cold sweats in the night

00:30:17.480 and reoccurring nightmares and struggling with PTSD,

00:30:20.960 because I've seen my friend get his body ripped apart with shrapnel,

00:30:27.540 and then i have to sit through lectures about how to be more empathetic what i'm saying is

00:30:34.560 if there's real trauma like men being ripped apart by a real enemy that doesn't care about

00:30:39.840 political correctness you know china doesn't care china loves the effeminacy of america because 0.77

00:30:47.020 you know and china is as you know that i mean they're even legislating getting rid of 0.96

00:30:51.500 sissy men in movies and entertainment and those kinds of things. And so China, they don't care 0.95

00:30:57.700 about that. So there are real enemies out there, not so much the Chinese people, but the communist

00:31:02.860 Chinese party is at enmity with God and hates America because there are still remnants of God's

00:31:08.500 law in America and those kinds of things. And so there are real enemies, there are real problems,

00:31:12.860 and there are real trauma. And then there's what I want to call pseudo-trauma, where you're

00:31:20.520 You're making someone a victim who's not a victim and you're trying to create trauma or really just drama because you like it and you thrive on it and you're trying to get attention.

00:31:34.080 And I would imagine that these two things would be in conflict, drama and trauma.

00:31:38.520 And as drama comes into the military with people who have actual trauma, real situations, not pseudo made up situations, I would see this hurting that the drama and the political correctness, the wokeness in the military, in many ways, even demeaning and almost mocking real trauma and real pain.

00:32:01.200 What do you think about that?

00:32:03.640 Yeah, that's, I mean, there's so many interesting points to what you just said.

00:32:08.520 When we look at the leadership of the military, military is an interesting beast because it is led primarily by politicians.

00:32:18.320 Now, some of those politicians wear a uniform, as General Milley and others.

00:32:23.620 They're politicians.

00:32:25.440 I've been around long enough now.

00:32:27.340 I'm, you know, 20 years removed just about from my military service.

00:32:31.760 And I've known a lot of folks who I served with who are now in positions of senior leadership, whether, you know, colonels and generals and folks that I respected and still respect who are still doing good work.

00:32:45.180 When one makes it to the level of the Joint Chiefs and some of these appointed military positions, they certainly are politicians.

00:32:54.500 They think like politicians. They act like politicians. And they're there because they're political.

00:32:58.960 So that's a truth.

00:33:02.840 When we get to the operational side of the military, you know, different branches will be more.

00:33:11.740 I don't like the term woke because I think it's pretty broad, but but woke or, you know, social justice aware or whatever you want to call it.

00:33:18.180 than than than others uh united states army united states military uh united states marine

00:33:23.280 corps rather tend to be the least of those the navy the air force a little bit more uh the jobs

00:33:29.260 have a lot to do with that the types of people they attract have a lot to do with that but when

00:33:33.400 you get to the operational forces there is a job to be done and one thing that i have seen from my

00:33:40.180 time in the military and forward is that those young people go into the military and do that job

00:33:45.380 Do it and they do it well. So whatever it is that our senior leaders are talking about as they are sitting before Congress, the books that they read and the nonsense that they so often espouse does not affect the the impact that our young servicemen and women have doing their job.

00:34:07.520 However, and this is the big however, when those political ideologies become policy, that begins to affect the operating force.

00:34:19.920 We have seen this the most clearly this year or more clearly this year than at any other time, probably in military history, with the vaccine mandate in the military.

00:34:30.340 The fact that political military leaders have put as a matter of policy in place something like a vaccine mandate, and they are willing to lose a percentage of the United States military to enforce this policy.

00:34:50.040 And we could talk about that all day long, but to enforce a policy that has zero bearing on the operational force, but is impacting every level down.

00:35:01.580 That's when it becomes a problem.

00:35:03.200 And we see these policies being pushed forward that are impacting the young men and women who serve.

00:35:08.340 And if you look historically, military history, there have always been ups and downs.

00:35:15.180 There have always been good leaders and bad leaders.

00:35:16.820 There have always been these times of dark days and better days.

00:35:21.660 But what we're seeing now is, I would say, unprecedented in a lot of ways.

00:35:26.220 And so that is impacting folks.

00:35:27.960 So how do we quantify that?

00:35:30.040 Well, we can look at the number of people who are leaving because of the vaccine mandates.

00:35:33.560 That's impacting people.

00:35:35.140 But to our point of post-traumatic stress, and again, I don't love this term, but we

00:35:39.960 could call it mental health.

00:35:41.640 The Department of Defense put out a study last year.

00:35:46.180 So in calendar year 2020, that had some interesting findings.

00:35:51.440 So typically, we say that there are 20 to 22 veterans a day that commit suicide to take their lives, 20 to 22 a day.

00:36:00.340 It's a terrible number. That's the number we've used for a lot of years.

00:36:04.140 On the active duty side, that number has been right around one and a half.

00:36:09.560 more recently a little bit higher than that maybe as high as four active duty service members a day

00:36:18.380 tragic number the department of defense did a study last year and the findings were this active

00:36:24.960 duty suicide rates active duty suicide rates went up 25 percent across the active duty community

00:36:32.560 across the department of defense this is all services 25 percent the army of the active duty

00:36:38.600 suicide rate went up 35%. The Air Force, it stayed the same as the previous year. The previous year

00:36:43.780 was the worst year for active duty Air Force suicides in the Air Force's history. So these

00:36:50.440 policy decisions being made by political military leaders do have a real implication when it comes

00:36:57.680 to things like what we're experiencing right now. So yeah, there is a real consequence for those

00:37:04.460 who lead. And it's funny because it's always been a belief that it doesn't matter who's leading the

00:37:12.260 military. Marines will do what Marines do. Soldiers will do what soldiers do. There's a job to be

00:37:16.240 done. There's a mission to be accomplished. But now a lot of that is changing and we'll see where

00:37:22.860 that ends up. I don't know where that will end up. Taking that one step further though, and I think

00:37:28.300 This is where pastors and churches and Christians need to focus.

00:37:33.320 We work with veterans and active duty service members who almost to a person will say they have post-traumatic stress as a result of combat or just their military service.

00:37:46.720 A lot of folks now particularly haven't been in combat, but they have something that happened in their military service.

00:37:54.600 When they come to us, that's their presenting problem, if you will.

00:37:58.300 As we begin to present a biblical blueprint of what it means to live your life, what the Word of God says, who God is, and how that applies to you, these things that we talk about, what we learn very quickly over just a couple of days is that most of the folks who talk about combat-related post-traumatic stress were traumatized as children.

00:38:21.500 A lot of sexual assaults, a lot of abuse, relationship issues, pornography issues, a lot of sexual sin that they brought into the military that was perhaps exacerbated by what they did in the military, but that that is not the problem.

00:38:37.880 They're looking at the wrong place. 0.53

00:38:39.480 So when it comes to churches and Christians who are trying to deal with this and address it, we have got to get back to discipling, to teaching the word of God,

00:38:48.260 to helping young men and women understand who they are before God,

00:38:52.200 what the Bible says, how to filter their lives

00:38:54.940 and their view of the world through the Bible

00:38:56.520 so that when they're confronted with these other issues,

00:38:59.420 they know what to do.

00:39:00.400 They just have no guide.

00:39:01.860 And that puts them in a very, very bad place

00:39:04.180 when additional trauma comes into their lives.

00:39:07.860 Yeah.

00:39:09.060 Yeah, I can't imagine.

00:39:11.220 And it's crazy even as you just,

00:39:13.000 I think one of the things that's going on in our culture,

00:39:15.240 well, not even culture, but society at large,

00:39:17.300 is just the credibility of so many of our institutions

00:39:22.220 has been just completely shocked.

00:39:24.920 And rightfully so.

00:39:27.300 Because the lid has been blown off

00:39:29.500 with several major institutions

00:39:32.140 and people are getting to look behind the veil

00:39:35.780 and see what's actually going on.

00:39:37.240 So even as you were talking about childhood trauma,

00:39:39.460 whether it be sexual abuse,

00:39:43.720 and I can't help but think of recent stories

00:39:45.920 that have come out with the CIA.

00:39:47.300 You know, different special agencies that are just, you know, where multiple individuals on staff found, you know, like with child pornography and child abuse and all these kinds of things.

00:39:58.580 And it seems as though, it seems as though there's just been a lack of accountability maybe with, you know, like, so like what you're saying is on the ground level, people who are involved in the military and we could say other organizations outside of the military, you know, there's a job to be done.

00:40:14.740 people have a mission and people will rally and people will get it done um but it usually tends

00:40:20.880 to be the people who aren't really they're they're not actually on the team anymore they're

00:40:25.880 not they're not actually that it's they don't have the mission anymore they've they've they

00:40:30.320 they accomplish the mission and then they achieve some kind of reward status to where they're not

00:40:36.140 really military anymore they're a politician or they're not really a worker anymore they're you

00:40:40.680 You know, they're whatever.

00:40:42.160 And they're a bigwig now.

00:40:44.460 And there's so little accountability.

00:40:46.220 And now the lid's being blown off.

00:40:47.560 And we see just how much abuse of power there is.

00:40:51.420 And it goes all the way back to, you know, like just a little kid, you know, gets to be the hall monitor, you know, and they become a tyrant.

00:40:59.940 And just, you know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

00:41:04.340 And there's just been so much tyranny, whether it be the vaccines or whether it be mask mandates

00:41:11.680 or shutting down churches and all these different things.

00:41:14.900 And you're right, like the result across the board in the military, but with civilians

00:41:18.940 and just across the board, suicide has gone up tremendously for young adults, whether

00:41:25.280 they be civilian, whether they be military.

00:41:28.300 And it's just, yeah, it's really sad to say that in the name of public safety, what we

00:41:33.760 did was we stripped everyone of liberty and it seems like that's always the trait right it's it's

00:41:39.280 individual liberty versus public safety and it seems like people in power they have an agenda

00:41:45.160 they have something that they they have a new mission some kind of global mission or whatever

00:41:50.280 they just want to they just want to be remembered and make a name for themselves or whatever it is

00:41:54.360 but they have their own mission and the thing that gets in their way is all those pesky

00:42:00.280 provisions in the constitution you know those freedoms those liberties because america has a

00:42:04.940 great foundation and so then they have to get people to voluntarily forfeit those liberties

00:42:10.740 and so what in the world you know but liberty is so precious what in the world is going to make

00:42:15.640 someone in their right mind give up liberty for you know what you got to trade something pretty

00:42:20.300 valuable for someone to to give up liberty but the illusion of safety will do that you know and

00:42:26.920 And there's this God complex, like I'm going to shut down the virus, or I'm going to stop tornadoes.

00:42:32.720 Policy doesn't stop tornadoes. Policy doesn't shut down epidemics.

00:42:38.280 There's only so much we can do.

00:42:40.720 And when you over-police things, and you pretend to be God,

00:42:44.100 and you scare the living daylights out of everybody with just this fear-mongering mainstream media

00:42:50.240 and all these kinds of things, and then tell them that I'm the Savior,

00:42:54.000 And if all you have to do is give me your liberty and I will make you safe.

00:42:58.760 And it turns out that not only do we not solve the original problem, whether it be COVID or whatever else, it didn't work.

00:43:07.440 But all we did was we created new problems.

00:43:09.720 There's substance abuse off the charts, suicide off the charts, unemployment off the charts, you know, all these different things.

00:43:17.460 Now, inflation off the charts, they just came out with a study saying that the average family is next year is going to have to pay middle class family $4,000 more on total expenses annually, which that's, you know, that's not just like gas costs a little bit more, but that's a real that people will feel that.

00:43:38.140 And it's a crazy thing, too, because that lack of trust in the institutions, it impacts someone who's already struggling and has struggled through their lives with trust and finding a place to belong.

00:43:56.180 So if you see someone who was traumatized as a child, they are obviously carrying a lot of trauma if it hasn't been dealt with.

00:44:02.300 and a lot of those folks will end up in an organization like the marine corps the army

00:44:08.340 the military because it's a place where they can find belonging they can find trust they can find

00:44:13.160 brotherhood and camaraderie and care and they've got leaders who care for them and watch out for

00:44:17.200 their best interests and you know we've all seen the movies and so we know that's how it works

00:44:21.100 and then it doesn't and there is such an identity wrapped up in the trauma of a child and then that

00:44:29.180 identity is traded in a lot of ways for the identity of military service. I wear the uniform.

00:44:34.780 I am this. I am this thing. And then when our leaders let us down or walk away from us,

00:44:41.440 we lose our identity in that process or we get out of the military or we're pushed out of the

00:44:47.000 military or whatever the case. And we no longer know who we are. So a big part of even what we

00:44:53.100 deal with with veterans is helping them understand that that job you did is not who you were,

00:44:58.020 the trauma you experienced is not who you are. It's all a part of your life and a part of your

00:45:02.020 story, but that's not who you are. We need to understand, you know, what our identity is

00:45:07.880 because, you know, it happens in churches where, you know, a pastor will do something

00:45:14.040 egregious and those that he's led and taught and who have trusted him,

00:45:20.220 he betrays them in that sense. It's a betrayal of God, but it's a betrayal of those that he leads

00:45:25.160 as well. And the trauma and the loss of identity, who am I now? And what do I believe now? Churches

00:45:32.940 go through that. Congregations go through that. Kids go through that with parents that do the

00:45:36.480 same thing. And certainly it happens in the military. And then you add that acute trauma

00:45:40.740 on top of it, you know, the physical trauma. It's a very deep and dark hole that you have to help

00:45:47.840 someone work their way out of. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Well, do you have any final thoughts on

00:45:54.120 PTSD or trauma or just serving our troops maybe I could put it like this um what are some things

00:46:02.140 that you know you know I was in San Diego for a long time pastoring a church there and we had

00:46:06.880 some marines but a lot of navy and um you know so so maybe for some of our listeners who find

00:46:13.720 themselves in in one of those kinds of areas and maybe they're a civilian you know speaking to

00:46:18.560 civilians for a moment but they're in a church where there's a military presence you know where

00:46:23.320 they have brothers and sisters in Christ that they see on a regular basis who are active duty

00:46:30.420 in the military. What are some just practical ways that civilian Christians can love

00:46:35.600 and serve them? Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. Loving and serving is a great place to

00:46:41.840 start. Loving people, genuinely caring for people, military folks. I can't speak for all

00:46:52.200 military folks, but generally speaking, someone in the military who attends a local church

00:46:56.620 is not there because they want to be singled out as someone in the military. They want to be

00:47:02.000 loved and cared for as a human being, as someone who would go to that church, just like anyone else

00:47:07.300 who would go to that church. I often have pastors reach out to me, and they'll ask something like

00:47:12.580 this, how do I help those in my church who were in the military who were struggling? I didn't serve,

00:47:19.240 So I can't relate to them. And while I understand the heart of that question, the reality is if scripture is sufficient, it's sufficient for all people, not just people that you have a common experience with or understand.

00:47:34.560 To apply scripture to the issues that service members are dealing with, struggles that they're having, you know, the feelings that they're feeling, that's always the right way as one Christian to another.

00:47:45.600 And so it's lovingly applying scripture. But I think beyond that, it's just it's being loving.

00:47:51.260 It's showing care. If you are in a community of active duty service members, a lot of ways to show care.

00:47:57.280 You can care for the spouse and the children while the service member is away.

00:48:02.360 The church that I'm a part of now and I was many years ago is in Oceanside, California, right outside of Camp Pendleton.

00:48:10.340 and we'll have times where you know a third of the church is on deployment and there are a lot

00:48:17.940 of wives and a lot of kids who need to be cared for and man there's no better way to show love

00:48:24.600 and care and concern than to be there for them and take care of them yeah also there are a lot

00:48:30.580 of people who are struggling and you know there are resources that are needed our organization

00:48:34.500 has written several books we have a lot of resources we do a lot of content production

00:48:40.020 in terms of video. We've got some podcasts. Pointing people to those resources can be helpful

00:48:44.780 as well. For someone who needs help but may not want that help, you can point them to others who

00:48:49.960 have also served, you know where they've been and where they're coming from, and hey, go check this

00:48:54.060 out. That's been helpful as well, and just being there for them. Yeah, that's good. You said you

00:49:00.200 were in Oceanside. Did you ever know, this is a random question, but did you ever know a pastor

00:49:04.180 there named jonathan ransom uh you know i met him years ago but it's been it's been a long time

00:49:11.480 yeah i remember when i was in san diego he was he was there for a while and then he ended up being

00:49:16.140 stationed in japan but yeah he was a good guy so and since you were in the ocean side i thought i

00:49:20.660 yeah it's funny i haven't heard that name in a long time but years ago yeah it's a good name

00:49:24.520 huh i wish my last name was ransom that's a great it's gonna be a lot easier to say if it was ransom

00:49:29.220 Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks so much, Jeremy, for coming on the show. The last question is this. Let our listeners, could you tell them how they could follow you and keep up with your ministry?

00:49:39.340 Yeah, the best place to go is just to our website, MightyOaksPrograms.org.

00:49:45.380 So, it's Oaks with an S, Programs with an S, MightyOaksPrograms.org.

00:49:49.960 That's our website.

00:49:51.160 And so, there on our website, first thing you'll see is a place to apply for the program.

00:49:56.040 A veteran, active duty service member, first responder, or spouse can apply for our program.

00:50:01.440 There's no cost to attend, and we'll work with you to do all the logistics and all the planning.

00:50:06.820 We'll cover the cost of travel so that there really is nothing that would prevent someone from attending the program other than the five days it will take to go.

00:50:14.080 So we want to make that available. Please apply. We have a great team that can make that happen.

00:50:20.000 We also have places for resources. We have a blog that we run off of that Web site.

00:50:25.120 We have video and other resources as well. So check that out. And we put all that out there.

00:50:31.300 We do charge for our books, but we give, so for instance, last year we gave 45,000 books away.

00:50:38.660 So when we charge on our website, it's so that we can give them away to our active duty folks. So

00:50:42.760 if someone falls onto our website, they look at something they want and they think it would be

00:50:47.100 helpful just to email us and we'll send it to you. You can't afford it. So we just want to make sure

00:50:51.200 that every resource needed is available. That's great. Well, Jeremy, thank you so much for coming

00:50:56.620 on the show. We appreciate it. Yeah, it's awesome. Thank you. Appreciate all you do.

00:51:00.500 As a special thank you for your gift of any amount, we'll be happy to send you a free digital book from our store.

00:51:06.680 To access this offer, visit rightresponseministries.com slash offer.

00:51:11.500 We highly recommend Pastor Joel's book, Am I Truly Saved?

00:51:15.160 If you or someone you know has wrestled with doubts about the love of God, this would be a great resource.

00:51:20.940 As a reminder, to get this offer, go to rightresponseministries.com slash offer.

00:51:25.240 And thank you for your generous support.

00:51:30.500 You

The NXR Podcast - January 25, 2022

THEOLOGY APPLIED - How The “Woke” Military Ignores Real Trauma

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