The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - How To Start A Christian Podcast

00:00:00.000 Hi, this is Joel Webin with Right Response Ministries. You're listening to another episode

00:00:03.960 of Theology Applied. In this episode of Theology Applied, I was privileged to have as a special

00:00:08.940 guest, Dwayne Atkinson. Dwayne Atkinson. He is the El Presidente of the Bar Network, B-A-R,

00:00:17.720 which stands for Biblical and Reformed. Biblical and Reformed. Now, most notable on his network

00:00:23.320 is probably not actually him, but Virgil Walker and Daryl Harrison, which we've had on our show

00:00:28.720 in the past. Those are the guys, the co-hosts for Just Thinking. And so Dwayne, however, gets credit

00:00:35.480 because he's the guy who actually brought them together and had the idea for their podcast,

00:00:40.860 brought them together, helped them with the social media. And the reason why you and I,

00:00:45.400 if you do know who Just Thinking is, the reason we know about him is because of Dwayne. And so we

00:00:49.580 wanted to get real practical. There's plenty of biblical principles that we apply in this episode,

00:00:53.800 But the thrust of this episode is the practical side of how to start a podcast, how to start an online ministry, or how to go beyond just you and your own podcast and maybe start a network like The Bar, like Duane has done.

00:01:07.200 And so if you're interested in those kinds of things, ministering online with the technology that God and His Providence has provided for us today, this is the episode for you.

00:01:17.000 Also, real quick before we get started, if you'd like to support Right Response Ministries,

00:01:21.300 you can do so by giving a donation of any amount by going to rightresponseministries.com

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00:01:54.980 friends and family. Without further ado, let's get started. Applying God's Word to every aspect of

00:02:01.520 life. This is Theology Applied. All right, so welcome back to another episode of Theology

00:02:11.840 you apply. This is Joel Webin. And as I've said in the introduction, my special guest today is

00:02:17.120 Dwayne Atkinson from The Bar Network. That's biblical and reform. Dwayne, thanks for coming

00:02:22.500 on the show. Hey, buddy. Thanks for having me on the show. Glad to be here. Absolutely. Well,

00:02:27.320 go ahead and tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. I don't know, maybe your testimony,

00:02:32.880 but then tell them about The Bar. Sure, sure, sure. So my name is Dwayne Atkinson. I am the

00:02:39.700 husband of one, father of four. Love to tell the story about my children because I think it's the

00:02:45.900 picture of God's grace. My oldest is actually adopted. It was my wife's great niece. My son

00:02:52.840 was a child I had before I met my wife. And then our two baby girls are two girls that came out

00:03:00.900 there five years of marriage and praying God finally blessed us. And so, you know, just

00:03:05.220 different aspects. My son actually was part of my turn to salvation. God turned in my heart

00:03:11.900 whenever I realized I had somebody to be accountable to. And so that's kind of the

00:03:17.580 foundation of me on a personal side. A lot of people know me because of my podcast, The Bar

00:03:23.380 Podcast, which I started about six years ago. It's interview style. And we've had pretty much

00:03:30.300 anybody you've named, we've had Steve Lawson and several people. I hate to even start dropping

00:03:39.060 names because I forget somebody or I might list somebody that was good back in the day and now

00:03:44.960 they kind of went to the side. Well, hey, Steve Lawson has stayed good. And honestly, you could

00:03:49.260 just drop that one name and I feel like that's sufficient. The sufficiency of Steve Lawson.

00:03:54.160 Right, right. Right, right. And so I guess kind of a little bit of my testimony before I tell about the thing that makes me well known. I grew up in the church, grew up Southern Baptist, met my wife on MySpace and she was actually going two way.

00:04:15.840 Yeah, man, I'm dating myself a little bit.

00:04:17.780 Oh, my goodness. 0.81

00:04:19.620 Met her on MySpace.

00:04:21.040 I sent Tom a thank you inbox after I met her, but moved to South Carolina and joined an actually mega charismatic church, fell into the whole word of faith, charismatic movement.

00:04:33.820 Then that transitioned into the new apostolic movement.

00:04:37.020 I was once called or ordained an apostle.

00:04:40.340 um since renounced renounced that uh found sound biblical reform theology uh was inspired by um

00:04:51.220 you know i call them the big three uh the ligonier um you know um the grace to you and the uh truth

00:04:58.640 of life three big three podcasts i could have sworn you're gonna say right response that

00:05:02.860 Hey, well, y'all weren't out yet, man. This was just a couple of years ago.

00:05:06.980 I'm just kidding.

00:05:08.880 So that big three inspired me to start my own podcast. And like the original idea for the

00:05:16.300 podcast was to have like a whole bunch of my friends, Virgil Walker being one of my friends

00:05:21.040 at the time, having a whole bunch of my friends do a round table and do a podcast. And as you know,

00:05:26.880 it's hard to get people together to do anything that let alone, you know, a podcast. And so what

00:05:32.740 i decided to do was start the bar podcast and i said hey guys i'm gonna build this podcast and

00:05:38.940 then when we when i get it to a level then we'll start these smaller shows underneath um and one

00:05:45.080 of those smaller shows that uh actually the anniversary for the first episode was uh yesterday

00:05:50.660 um was just thinking um and the way that happened is i already knew virgil we were already friends

00:05:57.120 through Facebook. And then I interviewed Daryl Harrison. And when I heard him speak and I heard

00:06:03.740 how he addressed topics, I said, man, this sounds a lot like what Virgil is always saying, you know.

00:06:09.620 So I heard the conversation. I was like, man, you know, this would be a really good idea. And so

00:06:14.540 I introduced the two. I actually went to Virgil first and said, hey, V, man, let me tell you

00:06:19.040 about this guy named Daryl Harrison. Virgil was excited. He was like, OK, let me interview him.

00:06:23.260 And so Virgil actually took over my podcast, interviewed Daryl for an episode.

00:06:27.620 And when it was all over, I actually asked Daryl, I said, hey, you want to do a podcast, man?

00:06:32.720 I think you'd be really good at it.

00:06:34.300 And anybody that knows Daryl Harrison knows his first response is always no.

00:06:38.960 You're going to get no first.

00:06:41.320 But after a little bit of time, him and Virgil came together.

00:06:45.860 And I coached them through the rough edges until we found a formula that worked.

00:06:51.580 and uh and that's how we got the just thinking podcast which has been number one on itunes

00:06:56.860 uh the christian category and top 50 itunes overall uh and so that that's uh by the grace

00:07:04.820 of god man that's me wow yeah i remember uh talking to daryl harrison a little bit it was

00:07:10.420 after the george floyd stuff went down and he's like if i remember correctly he was like i did

00:07:16.160 not want to do a podcast but he was like but Dwayne was incessant he was like you must do a podcast

00:07:24.720 on he's like but we've already covered that he's like it does you don't understand the way the

00:07:28.840 internet works Daryl god bless you you know you know a lot of things but you don't you don't get

00:07:33.780 this whole digital sphere and you you have yes you've said all these things before but hitting

00:07:39.000 a current issue when it's hot right when it happens and you know just think it was already

00:07:44.360 doing pretty well but but correct me if I'm wrong but they blew up after that episode is that right

00:07:49.040 that was the episode that took it overnight literally took it to the moon man I remember

00:07:55.840 that that day well I had no idea it was coming but by grace of God we were prepared I remember

00:08:03.960 I didn't hardly sleep because my phone kept going off Twitter was blowing up Facebook was blowing

00:08:08.540 up Instagram was blowing up and at the time I wanted to respond to everybody so I literally was

00:08:13.060 like reply, retweet, retweet. I mean, it was crazy. How many, uh, if you remember offhand,

00:08:19.300 how many views did that one episode get with the Just Thinking guys? Um, so no telling where it's

00:08:26.200 at now. Um, that day, uh, I think we clocked that day right at about, uh, 55,000, uh, listens that,

00:08:37.820 that very day. It was either 50 or 55. I can't remember, but it was, it was bananas. It was

00:08:45.060 unreal. Yeah. That's crazy. All right. Well, so for you personally, who are, you know, we, you

00:08:51.440 know, we, we said Steve Lawson, but you know, who were some of the influential men who really

00:08:56.700 helped you gravitate towards reform theology? You already named some networks in terms of

00:09:01.160 Ligonier, you named, you know, Grace to You, but who are some of the guys that you found yourself

00:09:05.500 listening to and reading that really shaped you in the Reformed direction?

00:09:10.960 Yeah, I mean, I have to start with Dr. R.C. Sproul, just the profound teacher that he was.

00:09:20.380 And I'm a YouTube baby.

00:09:22.420 Like, you know, I learned from YouTube and Ligonier had their YouTube up and running.

00:09:27.160 And so countless hours of Dr. Sproul's teaching.

00:09:31.120 um also um I'm a huge you know love Dr. MacArthur uh another another huge influence a lot like I do

00:09:40.460 I do a lot of lists I do way more listening than I do reading I know that's not common in the

00:09:44.460 reformed world but as you can see I'm not the common guy um but as far as uh I guess what we

00:09:51.240 call older dead guys um probably my favorite to read uh is either uh Spurgeon uh love reading the

00:09:59.880 the stories and the letters. Um, the last one that I was reading was the, was the, uh, letters

00:10:05.080 to his students. And then, um, uh, you know, John Owen is another one, which is kind of

00:10:11.780 controversial sometimes, but I, I actually, I drop his name just, just cause that's, that's who I am.

00:10:16.940 I'm a huge fan of John. So John Owen, I, I enjoy John Owen cause he's, you know, now my

00:10:22.660 Presbyterian brothers would, would vehemently disagree with me, but I feel like he's, he's one

00:10:27.580 of the giants that the Reformed Baptist can claim. He was a Paedo-Baptist in terms of his mode of

00:10:33.640 baptism, but he was a Congregationalist, and he was very, very adamant about the Congregational

00:10:38.820 polity and against Presbyteries, Synods, councils, those kinds of things. And so he certainly was a

00:10:44.140 Congregationalist, certainly had the Reformed Baptist, like a 1689 polity. And in terms of

00:10:49.840 his Paedo-Baptism, well, it seems like his view of the covenants began to continue to progress

00:10:55.500 throughout his lifetime, and I would like to think that if John Owen was granted extraordinarily

00:11:01.980 long life and lived to be maybe 150, I think he eventually might have held to a credo position

00:11:09.300 on baptism. So that's my thing. So Owen is great. The thing about Owen is I think a lot of guys

00:11:15.880 are like, well, the mortification of sin. They hear the name John Owen, and they hear about

00:11:20.040 the mortification of sin or communion with the triune God and some of his works because they're

00:11:24.900 so prestigious and so well just renowned throughout history um one of arguably one of the best known

00:11:31.600 puritans but he's also arguably probably the hardest puritan to read and so some of the best

00:11:36.940 advice i've gotten is from like dr joel beakey and guys like that who really specialize in the

00:11:40.960 puritan saying uh owen's probably the the last puritan that you should read because um right

00:11:46.560 you just you'll get stuck on one page you know and you get discouraged and disheartened you know

00:11:51.960 when it's like a month goes by and you've read 15 pages.

00:11:55.220 So I always recommend with people, 0.79

00:11:57.240 if you want to tackle the Puritans, 0.87

00:11:59.140 start with some of the easier guys like Thomas Watson is easier,

00:12:04.220 Thomas Goodwin, and especially start with some of the encouraging things

00:12:08.460 because we get that term Puritanical from the Puritans for a reason.

00:12:13.680 And there were times where perhaps they went overboard

00:12:16.200 and overstepped Christian liberty and those kinds of things.

00:12:18.940 But there are also some of the most gracious writings within the Reformed tradition come from, you know, like Richard Sibbes, The Bruised Reed, you know, or Thomas Goodwin, The Heart of Christ in Heaven Towards Sinners on Earth.

00:12:34.060 I just finished that recently, and it was incredibly encouraging.

00:12:37.360 So anyways, yeah, John Owen, fantastic.

00:12:40.420 And I'm with you with R.C. Sproul.

00:12:42.440 I, you know, I wish he was still here with what's been going on the last couple of years.

00:12:46.480 And then at the same time, I'm like, you know, that really was the kindness of God to take him, you know, right before things got so crazy, you know, because I feel confident that, you know, so many guys have capitulated in the last couple of years.

00:13:00.560 And I feel confident that he would not be one of them.

00:13:03.300 So no, no.

00:13:04.440 I mean, a good testament of that is is where his wife stand, Vista.

00:13:09.100 I mean, she.

00:13:09.700 OK, tell me about that.

00:13:10.480 I'm not sure.

00:13:11.280 Yeah.

00:13:11.660 Yeah.

00:13:11.860 No, I actually got to meet her not last year.

00:13:15.840 Well, I met her last year, but the year before that was the first time I met her.

00:13:19.840 And I was introduced to her by, hey, this is the guy that started just thinking, oh, I love them.

00:13:24.400 Like, you know, just to hear that, you know.

00:13:28.260 And, you know, just that quick moment, I think Chris Larson introduced me.

00:13:33.240 Just that quick moment, you know, she just pretty much agreed with the stance was like, you know, we got to stand for biblical truth.

00:13:39.860 You know, it's not it's not about, you know, social justice, just in that small moment.

00:13:44.620 So that made me so glad and gave me confidence that I think that Dr. Sproul would have been, you know, right there with us, cheering us along.

00:13:53.020 Yeah, I agree.

00:13:54.220 All right, so there's a lot of guys.

00:13:55.660 Everybody wants to start a podcast these days, right?

00:13:58.180 And so not everybody's called to that, you know, and it's a difficult thing, you know, if people, you know, when people come to me, you know, just even as a pastor and say they feel called to ministry, you know, there are times where somebody is called to ministry and there are times when they're not, you know.

00:14:13.300 And ultimately, those things are confirmed over time with what I would refer to as the outward calling, right?

00:14:18.880 The inward calling is kind of like, you know, the Puritans would use, like, you know, like that stirring, you know, in your heart or in your bowels, you know, you just can't.

00:14:26.380 In your bowels.

00:14:26.860 Yeah, exactly.

00:14:27.620 Like, you're just like, woe am I, you know, if I do not preach, you know, I have to preach.

00:14:31.980 And so the inward call is, you know, to put it in scriptural terms, you know, 1 Timothy chapter 3, we think that, you know, oftentimes we think like, well, the first qualification for an elder.

00:14:43.300 you know is you know a little bit later on that being above reproach and these kinds of things

00:14:48.620 you know but it seems as though that the first qualification is that's actually listed is he

00:14:53.620 who desires to be an elder desires a noble task you know or he who aspires to the office of an

00:14:59.380 elder and so it seems like the first qualification is desire the first qualification is you got to

00:15:04.860 want it you know and and certainly that's a difficult thing to parse out and to you know

00:15:10.260 discern motives because you can want things, all sorts of things, even good things, noble things

00:15:15.800 with wrong motives. And so it's certainly possible just because you want to be an elder doesn't mean

00:15:20.500 you're called to be an elder. But if you don't want to be an elder, then you know that you're

00:15:26.080 not called to be an elder, at least not then. Now, there are some guys who reluctantly came

00:15:30.160 into that call, kind of kicking and screaming. John Knox is an example of one of them.

00:15:35.460 So all that being said, I think the first thing is, yes, you've got to want it, but that's the

00:15:39.000 inward call. The outward call is really the confirmation. That's where the inward is made

00:15:45.800 plain, whether or not it was wrong motives or whether or not it was really the Lord giving you

00:15:49.500 that desire. And the outward call is the call, well, within the Baptist polity, Reformed Baptist

00:15:54.780 polity, the call of a congregation, right? So through the 1689 framework, the language of the

00:16:00.980 1689 is that when it comes to the ordination of an elder and a deacon, both being ordained

00:16:06.180 officers of the church, that there is, in the case of the elder, there's prayer, there's

00:16:11.020 fasting, the laying on of hands, but then it also happens through the common suffrage

00:16:15.060 of the congregation, like women's suffrage, which is not the suffering of women, but the

00:16:19.380 right, their authority, their right to vote.

00:16:21.660 So all that being said, there's a congregational polity where the congregation actually says,

00:16:27.400 we were voting, we are giving our assent to this man being our pastor.

00:16:34.380 because you could say, I want to pastor this person all day long,

00:16:36.880 but if they don't want to be pastored by you, then it's not going to work.

00:16:40.000 And so podcasting, you don't have to be an elder to be a podcaster,

00:16:43.060 but I do think that that principle of inward, outward desire,

00:16:47.500 but then a confirmation that someone actually wants to listen

00:16:49.920 to what you have to say, I feel like there's still that basic thing.

00:16:53.280 What do you think about that?

00:16:54.260 Is somebody trying to parse out, man, I want to do a podcast.

00:16:57.060 I want to start a network like The Bar.

00:16:58.780 I want to have a social media, online ministry.

00:17:02.320 That's kind of how I think about it.

00:17:03.820 what are your thoughts? Yeah. So, I mean, that pretty much, I've never like thought about it

00:17:10.560 in that framework. Um, but, but that is kind of the process. Um, and I, you know, as you can

00:17:17.460 imagine, I get approached all the time about, you know, I want to start a podcast. I want, I want to,

00:17:21.620 you know, build a network. Um, and my encouragement always is, is just do it, you know, um, because

00:17:27.800 that's actually putting forth the work because 90% of the people that ask about it, they're not

00:17:34.280 going to do anything with it. I, you know, I've watched it over and over again. And those are the

00:17:38.260 ones that you say, you know, got the desire, but it's not like, it's not in their bowels to do a

00:17:43.820 podcast, you know? And so that's why I don't, I don't put up around, I say, Hey, okay, do it.

00:17:48.960 Let's get started where we start with what's the topic was, you know? And so that's my encouragement

00:17:54.160 to those folks and i think that you know uh actually stepping out and doing the podcast

00:17:59.440 is is this the first part of that inward calling you know you know as as you're you know when it

00:18:05.540 comes to eldership you know when you're kind of under trial or everybody's watching you know that's

00:18:10.240 that's when you start to put out the the product and see you know what the response is and the

00:18:15.740 response is uh you know kind of like the congregational approval you know if if it you

00:18:21.220 know if it catch a motive but i will say this when it comes to podcasting um i always encourage

00:18:27.920 people because if if it's really something you love and you're passionate about uh you know

00:18:33.640 likes follows subscriptions shouldn't matter um if if you're really you know passionate about

00:18:39.880 podcasting and you and you're delivering and and in our case biblical truth you know uh you should

00:18:46.740 do it unto the glory of God, you know, and not necessarily to build something, but to, you know,

00:18:53.140 provide value, uh, you know, to, to this whole, you know, internet space, because there's so much

00:18:59.660 bad stuff, you know, I welcome, you know, all new podcasts, anybody that's, that's, you know,

00:19:05.020 inspired to do so, because that's one more thing that we can add, you know, to, to this internet

00:19:10.360 space that, that may be able to bring some value if they're coming from a biblical perspective,

00:19:14.700 of course, but, um, that's just kind of my, my, my views on it. I definitely see the,

00:19:19.700 the similarities to eldership and the process. Um, but, but I also, you know, uh, I wouldn't

00:19:27.320 want that to discourage anybody to actually step out because I, you know, uh, when I started,

00:19:33.480 I always joked, like nobody helped me. Like I inboxed a lot of people that I was influenced by,

00:19:39.540 we became friends later, but I inboxed them. I was like, Hey, how do you start? What,

00:19:43.700 How do you record? How do you do this? And they left me on read, you know, and so I had to figure

00:19:48.280 it all out by myself. And now when I get inbox, I always respond. I make sure I respond. If I can't

00:19:55.660 do it right away, I definitely, you know, hit you back as soon as I can, because I know that side of

00:19:59.860 the game. So that's a whole nother thing. But that's kind of my overall view of it.

00:20:04.640 Yeah. So one question I have is, you know, what should somebody start with first? Because I feel

00:20:09.980 like I've heard stories on both sides in terms of, you know, some people, they start a podcast

00:20:14.940 because the Lord has exalted them already in another area, right? Like whether it be they

00:20:20.860 wrote a book and the book, you know, actually had some sales. It doesn't mean it, you know,

00:20:25.300 made the New York Times list, but, you know, they actually, they had something to say and they've

00:20:29.500 already built an audience in some other capacity or even if it's just their pastor, you know,

00:20:36.380 So for me, it was like I was pastoring first, then I started recording the sermons on Sunday

00:20:42.220 and putting them online, and then we started clipping up the sermons and putting them into

00:20:45.940 clips, and we started to get not a ton, but some momentum with that where it started to become

00:20:51.580 confirmed by the Lord that it was a blessing not only to my immediate congregation that the Lord

00:20:56.720 had appointed me in, but that people even outside of my local church were benefiting by the teaching.

00:21:02.780 And so that began to, as that was culminating and becoming more clear and more momentum, more people were listening to those things and decided, okay, well, maybe I'll do like a Q&A podcast.

00:21:14.640 And then it was like, okay, maybe I'll do an interview podcast.

00:21:16.840 And that's where Theology Applied came.

00:21:19.340 And what the idea was like, I'm going to interview guys.

00:21:21.440 It's going to be different topics.

00:21:22.800 But the big theme in every episode is going to be, you know, theology, you know, with its boots on, you know, like theology on the ground.

00:21:32.280 How does theology actually apply to every realm of life?

00:21:37.340 And so that was the idea.

00:21:39.520 And by God's grace, that's kind of taken off.

00:21:41.900 And it's not the biggest show in the world, but thousands of people tune in and listen.

00:21:46.780 And so my point is, I started as a pastor, and I was trying to be faithful in that realm

00:21:52.360 where the Lord had clearly placed me.

00:21:55.160 And as I was faithful in that, there was some overflow from that.

00:22:01.340 and and that became right response it became something else so does does it always you know

00:22:06.800 i i think of you know there are people who maybe they wrote a book or somebody like daryl harrison

00:22:10.440 was already writing and blogging he was doing something already and and just thinking blew up

00:22:15.840 and he has certainly more of a following with that than he previously did but there was something

00:22:20.440 already there you know what i mean there was like a testing period um is that necessary what would

00:22:25.560 you recommend to a young guy who's saying you know if let's say he hasn't done anything he's

00:22:30.880 thinking the podcast is going to be my first thing. Is a podcast the best first place to start

00:22:36.740 or should someone start somewhere else like blogging or formal pastoral ministry or writing

00:22:44.120 a book? You see what I'm asking? Oh, for sure. For sure. Great question. Great question.

00:22:49.860 So really, it depends on how much work you want to put in. For me, podcast was the only thing that

00:22:57.740 I had started out with nothing else. That was my realm. And, you know, and it took time. It took

00:23:04.600 time, grind, consistent. I've dropped an episode every Tuesday for the last six years, every

00:23:10.680 Tuesday, nonstop. So that consistency is what helped me, you know, get to where I am. And that,

00:23:18.620 you know, that, that was my road. That's one road to take. You can do that hard thing and grind and

00:23:23.960 get there but you know you also can go the route that you went like the route that you went it

00:23:29.240 almost sounded like you came to me and asked me about podcasting because i tell pastors the exact

00:23:34.420 same things you did step by step i tell pastors to do the exact same thing step by step start with

00:23:40.900 the sermon sermon clips q a like all of that because i'm i promise that when you were saying

00:23:48.340 And I was like, did I, I don't remember talking to Joe.

00:23:53.680 Because I literally, I'm not sure you're familiar with, let's see,

00:23:58.520 Redeemed out of Arizona, the church that Costa Hain goes to.

00:24:02.500 Oh, yeah.

00:24:03.080 Yeah, I had to sit down with them before they started their podcast.

00:24:06.840 And that was the exact same conversation.

00:24:09.260 That's why I was like, okay.

00:24:10.520 But anyway, and it's funny because I always say that Just Thinking came out of nowhere.

00:24:16.280 I, Daryl's blog was, was, was decent, you know, but, you know, he didn't have a, you know, a bestseller, you know, Virgil wasn't a pastor, you know, for them, for me, in my mind, I feel like they came out of nowhere too, because it was a slow start when Just Thinking first started, you know, Just Thinking was actually on my RSS feed, like we shared our RSS feed for a while before we actually, you know, put them on their own.

00:24:44.840 it was probably definitely a slow start because you can't get Daryl to put out more than one

00:24:49.220 episode. That's going to be real slow. That is, that is a fact. That is a fact, but, um, but yeah,

00:24:57.080 so to answer your question, um, you know, both, both, you know, both are great ways. Um, if you

00:25:04.620 know, podcast is a great way to extend your blog podcast is a great way to extend your sermon

00:25:09.400 podcast is a great way to continue to promote your book and, you know, kind of get into the

00:25:15.340 deep parts of your book and expose people to that side. And podcast is a way to get you in the game

00:25:22.280 or get you into, you know, multimedia, get you into, you know, those places and spaces. You know,

00:25:29.180 like I said, when I started six years ago, you know, I had, I, it's funny. One of my favorite

00:25:36.340 podcast was um the reformed pubcast lesson tenor and i remember when they did a live at ligonier

00:25:43.240 and i was like man one day i want to do a live podcast at ligonier man and fast forward you know

00:25:49.240 last year we did a live podcast at ligonier daryl and virgil let me be on stage with them which

00:25:54.020 that's cool you know was one of those things man and so you know it it was i always say this was

00:25:59.920 a little black boy from turkey north carolina sitting on stage you know at ligonier doing a

00:26:04.640 podcast man but it took the grind the effort and being willing to go that route not having a best

00:26:12.240 i mean i didn't have a blog i didn't have nothing i mean i had a little facebook page but that was

00:26:18.040 it so that route works and the the route of actually having something established being a

00:26:24.000 pastor being a writer being a blogger being a bestseller all of that stuff both of those tie

00:26:28.960 in good that's why i say podcast is like the the media of the future there's no nbc abc nobody

00:26:34.620 can keep you out. You literally can produce your own content and enroll right now while we're still

00:26:41.260 in a free America. We can do that, which I fear that might. Right. Free is a bird compared to

00:26:49.940 Australia, man. I'm grateful for where we are. It's rough, but it's definitely the best place

00:26:55.440 in the world. Yeah, for sure. Cool, man. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So let's get a little

00:27:01.300 bit more practical with trying to start podcasts and maybe even trying to start a network and those

00:27:07.140 kinds of things. What was your vision, you know, moving from just an isolated, you know, one podcast

00:27:13.140 to the vision for starting a network? What, you know, what do you think the benefits are of that?

00:27:19.440 What made you think about doing that? And what are some of the practical things that you did to

00:27:24.080 set that up? Yeah. So, um, the network idea, uh, came early because like I told you before,

00:27:32.540 um, I had a lot of really talented friends around me. And so, um, you know, once I realized I

00:27:39.740 couldn't have them all round table on mine, I was like, well, we'll, we'll create a network,

00:27:44.780 a podcast. And so, um, that was really where the vision came from just having people around me

00:27:49.860 already that were super, you know, blessed, super talented, Virgil Walker, Terrence Barlow,

00:27:56.080 just to name a few. And that's really where the genesis of it started. As far as the practical

00:28:05.060 side and what we did to do that, what I did was for the Bar Podcast, I pretty much set the standard

00:28:14.020 when people see Bar Podcast Network, they know, number one, the quality is going to be good.

00:28:19.340 Number two, the content is going to be good. So those are the two things that I set the standard with my podcast. And so anybody that has that stamp, that logo on their podcast, that's what they can look for.

00:28:31.760 I've had people, you know, tell me like, hey, when I'm on social media, if I see the Bar Podcast Network logo, I just repost because I just know that it's going to be biblically sound.

00:28:41.980 It's going to be, you know, solid content and it's going to be, you know, good quality.

00:28:46.740 And so that that's that's the brand, if you if you want to use that word, that that I put forward first for me and my podcast.

00:28:54.800 And then it trickled down for every podcast afterwards.

00:28:57.520 When people see that, when people see that logo, then they understand that, hey, it's sound, it's biblical, it's not, you know, it's going to be good quality.

00:29:07.740 And so, you know, for somebody that's thinking about starting it, you know, you really have to establish your identity in Christ, you know, and your identity in the whole social media world.

00:29:18.740 Like, you know, what's going to be your standpoint? What's going to be your stance? What are you known for?

00:29:24.020 and once you build uh some sort of a momentum uh then you know because a lot of podcasts that

00:29:31.080 in the network came to me it's like hey i want to be in the network and so the what value that

00:29:37.060 that i try to give to them is that standard that i talked about you know they want to be in a

00:29:41.820 network so when they when people see again when they see the logo when they see that you know

00:29:46.260 oh this is oh you connected with just thinking oh okay well you you solid that kind of thing and so

00:29:51.360 it's more or less affiliation. On the inward part, I also meet with all my podcasters that's in my

00:29:59.980 network. I have a tech guy that helps them with any technology needs that they may have. I also

00:30:06.640 have a kind of like an assistant guy that also does the kind of same thing. And we meet with

00:30:12.220 them. We talk about strategy. We talk about network. We talk about marketing, you know,

00:30:15.740 all the things that's part of it. You know, podcast is glamorous up front, but there's planning that

00:30:20.840 goes into it. And I'm not formally trained. I didn't go to school for this. I just was blessed

00:30:28.000 with a knack for social media. I understand social media. And so I try to give that to the people

00:30:34.200 that are connected with me on a network level. I know I kind of went off because I do interviews

00:30:38.440 all the time. So my bad. No, no, no. That's great. Yeah. Well, it seems like you have a knack for

00:30:42.140 social media. It also seems like just the Lord providentially has just brought people into your

00:30:47.280 life you have a knack for friendship you know like and that'll go a long way you know so some

00:30:51.580 some guys you know they're you know jack of jack of all trades you know they have a knack for many

00:30:56.720 talents um and then other guys that have a knack for having many friends you know and it sounds

00:31:02.060 like you've got a little bit of both you know well it sounds like you've got some of both but

00:31:05.700 but the friend thing can go a long way you know like we talked before you know we hit record on

00:31:10.220 this episode and you know i i'm not a tech savvy kind of guy i don't personally you know people

00:31:16.060 all the time. They're like, Hey, you know, where's Joel Webin's Facebook page, and I don't, I don't

00:31:21.180 have one. I don't want one, you know? So now I, I engage, I have like a little, I don't even know

00:31:26.200 what it's called, like business suite or something like that. It's a little app on my phone that will

00:31:30.620 let me log in on, you know, underneath right response ministries. And so I, you know, I'll do

00:31:35.760 that with Facebook and with Instagram. And then I have like this YouTube app where I'm again, like

00:31:42.060 as as right response ministry so i'll keep up with those three uh three platforms and um and

00:31:47.800 and i'm pretty engaged with the comments and and you know when people email me and i and same as

00:31:52.060 you i try to always get back and try to answer their questions promptly and um and i think that's

00:31:56.940 part of it also you know some of the advice that i would give to somebody who's podcasting is like

00:32:00.880 do you how much do you engage but at the same time just keep in mind you can lose your life

00:32:06.920 to social media like it's you know yeah um you know so i have three little girls a four-year-old

00:32:13.100 two-year-old and a one-year-old and so i have to be really diligent about like because it's it's

00:32:18.080 not like a nine-to-five job you have to turn it off you have to make that decision and you have

00:32:23.200 to be really disciplined on both sides of the equation disciplined to actually respond to

00:32:28.820 comments and to always be pushing for the next goal and and you have to have an idea for it

00:32:34.300 because next week is always coming, you know, because you're right. It's, if you're not

00:32:37.800 consistent, then it's just, it's not going to happen. So you pick a day in the week and hell

00:32:42.520 or high water, I'm going to drop an episode every day. And if you have an interview podcast,

00:32:46.600 then you've got to find somebody who's going to come on your show 52 times. And when you finish

00:32:51.680 that, then, then it's the next year and it starts over again, you know, and, and then you've got to

00:32:55.840 come up with topics for each one of those things. And then, and then all of your stuff, you know,

00:32:59.600 with YouTube, YouTube is, is unique in the sense that, you know, because it's, it's, you know,

00:33:04.220 it's searchable. So people, you know, people will discover you, um, that, that maybe had no clue

00:33:09.760 that you even existed because you had a guest on and they liked that guy. Um, or just because of,

00:33:15.600 of the way you title something with your topic. Like a lot of times people find this because I,

00:33:19.580 I'll do a lot of stuff on, um, post-millennialism, you know, and people are curious about eschatology,

00:33:24.960 you know or um and so then you know and it's funny it's like your content needs to be good

00:33:29.740 because you don't want people to click on your your you know your video and be disappointed

00:33:33.400 um right you know and never come back and and kind of write you off with that first impression being

00:33:38.520 a negative one but at the same time your content as good as that is you've got to be as good if

00:33:43.940 not even better with thumbnails titles descriptions you know those kinds of things and like are you

00:33:49.760 catchy but then you can't be too catchy because every now and then you know someone will be like

00:33:53.660 man, that felt kind of clickbaity, Pastor Joel. I don't appreciate that. And that's a fair point.

00:34:00.020 And so there's just so many things to think about. But one of my questions, leading up to a

00:34:04.080 question, one of my questions is, if somebody's serious, they want to start a podcast and they

00:34:09.060 actually, yes, they want to do it for the glory of God. Do your work as unto the Lord. But there

00:34:15.300 are some types of work that even though ultimately you're doing the work as unto the Lord,

00:34:21.240 the work involves um nurturing people and if there's no one listening then then the work

00:34:28.880 you know even well i'm doing that i'm doing a podcast you know brother i'm doing a podcast

00:34:33.300 just for the lord well then you don't need a microphone or a camera that you can just talk

00:34:38.160 in your bedroom to you you know to the lord by yourself like it's it's only a podcast as unto

00:34:43.380 the lord if there's somebody listening right and so you want to do it well you want to be consistent

00:34:48.040 You want to give it thought, but at the same time, you don't want to necessarily give it

00:34:52.700 your life.

00:34:53.300 And so I guess my question is, how much time, if somebody's serious, I want to do this and

00:34:59.360 I actually want people to listen and not just my grandma or my uncle, but I want people

00:35:04.140 to listen.

00:35:04.740 I want it to grow and I want it to be a blessing, not because I'm trying to build my own empire,

00:35:08.700 but I am trying to build the kingdom of God and be a blessing to the saints.

00:35:12.400 How much time on a weekly basis are they looking at spending?

00:35:15.320 so that's that's a tricky question um and and i'm glad you brought up the balance uh you know

00:35:24.300 that's something i i struggle with uh the balance and learning when to turn it off um i would say

00:35:31.020 if you're serious about podcasting and you know thought process planning you know it's funny you

00:35:37.960 mentioned the business suite i love that thing because it's so convenient but if you're really

00:35:42.740 serious, man, you really got to, you know, I always call it the five to nine, you know, we

00:35:48.000 got to, we got to eight to five and then we got to five to nine. So I, I hate to say it, man,

00:35:55.980 but, but you need, you need to spend at least, you know, I would say four to six hours a day,

00:36:04.220 you know, and it don't have to be consistent. And I hate to just even put that out there because

00:36:09.060 somebody's going to take that literal and then they're going to be in trouble with their wife

00:36:12.780 and they're going to blame me but you know but it you really have to you have to put time in

00:36:17.820 um you you everything that you it's funny you everything you mentioned I promise I think you

00:36:22.540 took one of my classes didn't tell me but everything you mentioned man um you know

00:36:26.920 being a responding planning uh artwork audio you know visuals um description you know all of that

00:36:37.420 stuff it i mean it is that's part of it man if you want to be serious podcast you have to be

00:36:43.980 uh you know you have to consider all of those things you have to be consistent

00:36:47.180 um yeah and and here's my advice though when you're starting you might not sometimes people

00:36:53.360 come in try to be too clickbaitish typish or too over you know you might want to keep it real

00:37:00.380 simple you know real simple in the beginning um as far as uh just your artwork and your planning

00:37:06.320 and all of that um but i'll take it back i won't say six hours i'll say four hours let's say four

00:37:11.500 hours a day four hours a day um just uh posting responding creating content um and and you know

00:37:21.780 because the beautiful thing about a podcast is a podcast can produce several pieces of smaller

00:37:27.720 content like one show you can take that one show and you can have uh audiograph you can do

00:37:34.300 picture quotes you know if you follow just thinking we're posting at least three times a day

00:37:39.620 every day like that's that's what we do and that's uh that that comes from that that kind

00:37:45.540 of planning and understanding um that you're going to have to put the work in but guys grace

00:37:49.960 shout out to rachel we have somebody that actually does that for us nice uh she does a phenomenal job

00:37:55.660 um but but you definitely uh have to do that and and another thing i always tell podcaster is

00:38:02.480 social media right now is free advertising. Please take advantage of it. It's free advertising.

00:38:09.420 There's no other platform or no other way to get the word out besides social media. I mean,

00:38:15.020 and you can pay for ads and all that's cool, but you literally, if you're consistent and you drop

00:38:19.720 in, you know, taking that one piece of content and chopping it up and making it into several,

00:38:25.220 that will take you a long way because Twitter is getting unbelievably fast. And if you swipe one

00:38:31.560 time, you will not know the last tweet that you saw. So you have to make sure that you're hitting

00:38:37.780 that feed so that people can discover you. Right. Yeah. Twitter is probably the one platform and

00:38:43.840 you'll probably hate this, but it's the one platform that I just, I don't know. I know I

00:38:49.240 should care probably, but I don't do anything on Twitter. I don't hate you for that. Nope. I hate

00:38:55.300 Twitter too. I don't care for Twitter at all. I feel like it is designed like Twitter. So I feel

00:39:00.100 like Facebook, I can get a thought, like a whole complete thought, you know what I mean? And

00:39:05.880 Instagram is not really, you know, it's not really a place for dialogue and thought and those kinds

00:39:10.140 of things, but you can still, you know, Instagram, we use Instagram a lot for like our memes. So you

00:39:14.540 got, you know, and I remember it was about a year ago, like same as you, you're like, you know,

00:39:18.580 I've got in the last six years, some of these guys, you know, I wouldn't have back on the show,

00:39:22.140 you know, but I had them four years ago or something. So it was about a year and a half

00:39:25.660 ago that I just told the guy who helps us with our social media, I said, all right, from now on,

00:39:30.100 only use guys that are dead dead because the beauty here's the beauty about dead guys dead

00:39:35.500 guys don't disappoint they don't disappoint you you know it's like they can't they cannot

00:39:40.280 apostatize even if they wanted to so anyway so it's like all right we're using dead guys so rc

00:39:45.100 sprawl you know it's like he's dead you know he made it he made the cut um you know but but

00:39:50.900 instagram's great for memes and those kinds of things yeah and we'll use you know we we would

00:39:55.180 do reels so i'll you know i'll do little like shorts on youtube and then boom we're gonna put

00:39:58.960 it as a reel on instagram we're going to put it as a short on youtube and then we'll do also i

00:40:03.800 forget what it's called because he you know my guy michael he does those things but um i think

00:40:08.520 it's stories it's like more like three minute clips instead of the 60 you know the 15 second

00:40:13.440 to the 61 would be like the reel that's like the equivalent of youtube shorts which ultimately is

00:40:17.640 the equivalent from what i've been told again because i'm not on these platforms but it's the

00:40:21.360 equivalent of youtube and instagram trying to take back some of the followers that they lost

00:40:24.760 to tiktok you know and trying to recreate kind of what tiktok's doing their equivalent right

00:40:28.840 so anyway so you know but that's exactly what you're saying so like you know if somebody wanted

00:40:32.860 to do what what you know what i'm doing is you know i'm trying to do you know basically like

00:40:36.920 two shorts a week um but even that it's like all right you're just recording for a minute that's

00:40:41.100 one minute of your time no it's not it's not one minute of my time you know because you gotta

00:40:45.220 you gotta think of an idea and then you hit record and i'm always recording probably three

00:40:50.000 four five times before i get it right because because it's a challenge to get a whole thought 0.96

00:40:55.540 into one minute, you know, into one minute, and I still sound like an idiot, you know, half of the

00:41:02.540 time, but, you know, to at least sound competent 50% of the time, you know, so that's a challenge, 0.93

00:41:07.600 so I'm trying to do two shorts, and then same thing, so I'm preaching, that's my day job,

00:41:12.500 and that's ultimately what always is going to take my number one priority, you know, is as a pastor

00:41:16.840 in the church, number one outside of, of course, being a follower of Jesus, and then husband and

00:41:21.620 father in the home. But, you know, so it's, it's, it's Jesus, family, church, and then it's

00:41:28.120 right response ministries, you know? And so, but all that being said, you know, I preach a sermon

00:41:32.580 and so I've got to write that sermon like any other pastor does. And if you're a pocket, you

00:41:36.500 got to, you got to write something and that doesn't mean you manuscript it out. There's guys

00:41:40.340 that I, that I really liked that manuscript as pastors with their sermons. And I, I don't

00:41:45.320 manuscript. I kind of do a hybrid. It's not a bullet point on a napkin and it's also not a

00:41:49.420 manuscript you know it's like it's something in between it's it's usually like about a paragraph

00:41:53.780 for each point um and i print notes people can take them for retention those kinds of things but

00:41:59.020 it's not a full manuscript but in the same way i prepare for a sermon then on the back end we're

00:42:03.100 going to clip that up and then you know and so that means you're watching the sermon kind of

00:42:07.640 like the you know like monday morning you know kind of thing like after after the game you know

00:42:11.520 so you're watching the sermon you're clipping it up and then you got to come up with titles you

00:42:15.000 got to come up with descriptions. And then we, you know, on our website, we want it to be able

00:42:19.720 to search by topic like Ligonier and some of the, you know, the big players and, you know, in the

00:42:24.540 game. And, and, and so, you know, so then you're, you're doing title topic or title description

00:42:29.700 topics, and then text. We want them to be able to search by books of the Bible and text. You know,

00:42:35.440 so you're doing all that and then trying to get a thumbnail for, for YouTube. And, and we try to

00:42:40.020 get five clips per sermon. We call that our daily truth podcast. So it's also on a podcast platform

00:42:45.780 and it's a category, you know, playlist underneath our YouTube and all that kind of stuff. And so

00:42:50.140 that's a daily show, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And that's all from

00:42:54.260 the sermon, but it's, it's writing the sermon, leading up to the sermon. That's my work as a

00:42:58.320 pastor. And then my work as, you know, president of Right Response Ministries is I got a guy who

00:43:03.660 will help clip it up for me. But then I take those clips and, and then I'm doing title and topic and

00:43:09.280 description and text, you know, until Lord, you know, Lord willing, as the ministry grows and we

00:43:14.680 have resources, then hopefully I can, you know, get some help with that. But that's just with Daily

00:43:18.720 Truth. And then we do Theology Applied and that's what you're on right now. And then same with Theology

00:43:22.860 Applied, we clip that up and we call it Bite Size Theology. And we try to get four or five clips

00:43:28.180 from each of these interviews. And so you've got a Daily Truth thing dropping, you know, Monday

00:43:33.220 through Friday, you've got a Bite Size Theology dropping on like Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday,

00:43:38.060 you know later in the afternoon daily truth is in the morning and then you've got wednesday is

00:43:42.680 kind of like the flagship with theology apply and that's 5 p.m every wednesday premieres and

00:43:47.120 everybody can see that and it's on the podcast platforms it's on youtube all those kinds of

00:43:50.720 things and then you know sundays usually sunday or sometimes the day after monday is when the

00:43:55.800 sermon you know the full-length sermon drops um and then on saturdays we have um our our show

00:44:01.460 called questions so basically it's like we have three three things you know uh and then and then

00:44:06.880 you're getting, you know, it's bang for buck. So it's the opposite of Biden's America where you

00:44:11.100 get zero bang for a buck, you know? So it's like, you know, it's, it's back when America, you know,

00:44:16.960 actually had a, had an economy, but like, you know, you're trying to get as much mileage as

00:44:21.180 you possibly can. And so, so really it's like three things, a sermon, a theology applied,

00:44:26.860 an interview, weekly, weekly sermon, weekly interview, and a weekly Q and A. I take one

00:44:31.460 question, you know, that people send in and that's usually 15, 20, 30 minutes tops. But the

00:44:36.800 interview is usually 45 minutes to an hour, and the sermon is usually an hour. My church knows

00:44:40.560 it. There's no way that I'm going to preach less than an hour. So those are the three things,

00:44:45.500 sermon, interview, Q&A. And from that, you're getting five clips that makes our podcast called

00:44:52.280 Daily Truth from the sermon for bite-sized from Theology Apply that's coming out. And then that's

00:44:58.960 just all with the video and audio. And then you've got a daily meme that's dropping. And then from

00:45:05.020 time to time I'm, I'm writing a blog, you know? And so, and so it's like somebody who wants to,

00:45:11.580 you know, now you don't have to do all that. No, nobody has to do all that. You could just do a

00:45:16.460 weekly show. Um, but in doing what I would say to people is if you do a weekly show, it's, it's

00:45:22.700 basically when you think of like how, because it's, there's just no substitute for time. Yeah.

00:45:27.320 Maybe you hit it big with, with, with something and, and just the algorithms, you know, favor you

00:45:31.840 or whatever. But for the most part, it's like time in and reward comes out. And if you're doing

00:45:39.460 weekly, I would be thinking years. If you're doing daily, maybe it could be months or a year

00:45:46.620 because you have so much more content that you're going to climb. Would you agree with that? Would

00:45:52.020 you add anything to that? 100% agree. Just the nature of it. It's so funny. So, okay, let me

00:46:04.220 say this. I agree, but you can have an outlier and just thinking as an outlier. So we're not even

00:46:09.920 going to talk about them. You're right. They're not fair. Yeah, they're different. So, because

00:46:14.380 it's funny, because like I said, I consult. I talk to people all the time about podcasts and

00:46:18.240 all the tips that I give people, they ignored and super successful. Like, you know, uh, being,

00:46:25.460 being consistent coming every, you know, dropping every week, keeping it, you know, around 30 to

00:46:30.360 45 minutes, you know, uh, cause my, my old saying was the average commute is 30 to 45 minutes. You

00:46:35.900 want to become part of people routine and you want to, you know, I had, I mean, which all of that

00:46:39.940 stuff worked, it worked for me. It was a slow grind, you know, and then just thinking they

00:46:44.340 drop an episode whenever

00:46:46.140 and it's at least

00:46:48.540 three maybe four hours

00:46:50.480 long

00:46:50.860 you know but

00:46:53.260 it worked for them

00:46:55.160 but everything you said is spot on

00:46:58.020 you take one piece of

00:47:00.380 content and you break it up

00:47:02.520 and create other pieces of content

00:47:04.320 that keeps you in front of your

00:47:06.320 audience keeps you in

00:47:08.320 the algorithm keeps you in

00:47:10.400 the news feed in the flow

00:47:12.020 make you searchable make your keywords searchable all of that stuff is is 100 on point that's what

00:47:19.940 i tell anybody uh that's the kind of work you have to put in to be consistent um you know and

00:47:26.080 and the the the crazy thing is you know if you're not ready to put in that work you know it's almost

00:47:31.500 like you know we're just thinking it was almost like winning the lottery you know you're not you're

00:47:35.960 not going to always come up with a George Floyd in the gospel, you know, the week after, uh, the,

00:47:42.080 the, the video goes viral and the pandemic is going on and people are in their house and

00:47:46.780 everybody's on social media, you know, that, that was the stars aligning. That was, that was,

00:47:54.800 you know, striking gold. So that is a different special moment, but in order for you to, uh, and,

00:48:02.080 And again, the goal isn't to be, you know, famous and all of that, but, but like you

00:48:07.660 said, we want to build God's kingdom.

00:48:09.120 We want to provide, you know, resources and we want to, you know, have stuff available.

00:48:12.720 And in order to do that, you, you have to have, you have to be serious about what you're

00:48:16.900 doing, take your craft serious, and then put in that time and create that content and,

00:48:23.100 and creating content takes work.

00:48:25.160 Yep.

00:48:25.320 I completely agree on the pastoral side of things.

00:48:27.680 The only other thing that I would add is you better be a faithful member in a local church if you're starting a Christian podcast.

00:48:36.980 And you may not be an elder at the church, but I think your elders should have your back.

00:48:43.980 They should agree with what you're doing, support you in what you're doing, and believe that you're qualified to be doing what you're doing.

00:48:52.560 Because it's like there is the craft.

00:48:54.480 There's the skill, right?

00:48:55.560 And this is theology applied.

00:48:56.540 So we're trying to take theology, we're trying to get to some of the practical stuff that a lot of times guys in the reform world just don't talk about.

00:49:03.660 And that's why we're doing this.

00:49:04.900 It's not that we're trying to be too practical and leave out the spiritual side of it.

00:49:08.800 It's just the reality is in our camp, sometimes it's too spiritual and the practical gets left out.

00:49:12.940 And so I wanted to talk about these things.

00:49:15.100 But to the spiritual side of things for just a moment, the craft, the skill, the time that you're putting in,

00:49:22.160 and you're chopping things up and good titles and good thumbnails.

00:49:27.160 If you do all that, but you don't have something to say that is true to God's word

00:49:33.040 that people need to hear, then you are at best a distraction from the kingdom of God

00:49:38.220 and at worst, demonic.

00:49:41.000 You're actually saying something that is in contradiction to the word of God

00:49:45.340 that actually harms people.

00:49:47.520 And so then how do you discern that?

00:49:49.760 Well, the way you discern that is you co-discern that.

00:49:52.160 You don't make that decision.

00:49:53.740 You don't stamp yourself with an approval.

00:49:57.100 You submit yourself to others, and I think it should be those who are qualified,

00:50:02.540 and God has called to shepherd you and watch over you in the local church context.

00:50:08.060 And so I would say that's one of the very first things is going and talking to your pastor and saying,

00:50:12.280 hey, do you think that there is both character but also that there is some gifting here,

00:50:20.120 that I would have something to say that it's not going to be maybe R.C. Sproul level or

00:50:25.160 Stephen J. Lawson level, but it is true. It is faithful and it would help people. And so

00:50:31.380 to counter that real quick, because I don't want to, I think of the bruised reed and the smoldering

00:50:36.160 wick, right? There's a difference between somebody who's, well, they used to say there's a difference

00:50:42.380 between a false convert and a weak convert, a weak convert. The false convert, that's the person

00:50:48.420 you want to sharply oppose, but the weak convert might look like a false convert, but that's

00:50:53.480 somebody that we actually, we want to comfort and console and welcome and love. And so the false

00:50:59.740 podcaster, right? The person who bears the name of Christ, but is actually going to do harm

00:51:03.180 versus the weak podcaster, if we could use that distinction, the weak podcaster, what I would say

00:51:08.300 is go to your pastor, your local church elders ask, do I have some gifting? Do I have enough

00:51:15.460 character, enough gifting to where it'd be worth doing this. If they say yes, then from that point

00:51:19.880 on, don't be discouraged because all the time, what I'll, so there's a balance there. It's like

00:51:24.420 some guys shouldn't do it at all. However, it can't be that we set the bar at R.C. Sproul level

00:51:31.760 and say only these guys, right? So what I'm saying is there's a balance between, there is a minimum

00:51:37.440 bottom line. You must be this tall to ride the ride, right? If you don't have character and you

00:51:41.880 don't have at least some basic good biblically true theology then then you're just not ready

00:51:46.400 you're not ready to do this because it's it's not going to be helpful however if we're not careful

00:51:51.460 you can say you can make that minimum bottom line and put it right up there with the best of the

00:51:56.800 best from Ligonier or whatever John MacArthur and the reality and I've thought that so many times

00:52:02.620 I've thought what am I doing because there are weeks where it's just like it feels like you know

00:52:06.660 like your stuff just isn't getting as many views people don't care about what you have to say and

00:52:11.700 And yet you're working those weeks just as hard.

00:52:13.900 That's the hardest part about this.

00:52:15.440 Every week you put in the same amount of time

00:52:17.540 and then some weeks things pop

00:52:19.060 and then other weeks things don't, you know?

00:52:21.720 And so in those seasons where it's like,

00:52:23.780 it's not happening like you want it to happen,

00:52:26.300 I'm always tempted to think,

00:52:28.340 why am I even doing this

00:52:29.860 when there are so many men already,

00:52:33.020 faithful men who are doing this well?

00:52:35.420 Why am I doing this

00:52:37.040 when people can watch The Dividing Line with James White?

00:52:39.520 Why am I doing this when they've got Jeff Durbin?

00:52:41.700 when they've got Doug Wilson, when they've got this guy and that guy.

00:52:45.200 And what I feel like the Lord always reminds me of is just my own testimony,

00:52:50.100 my own journey, and everybody else that I've heard.

00:52:52.280 People come to Christ through different avenues, right?

00:52:55.540 Christ is the one way, but the way to Christ,

00:53:00.140 people are led to the Lord by different men.

00:53:03.340 And their gateway drug to reform theology isn't always the same.

00:53:08.840 You know, a bunch of people come through this guy and then a bunch of other people that this was this was the guy that I was listening to who led me.

00:53:15.620 And so you just you don't know. Right. Are there better guys than me? Absolutely.

00:53:20.460 Yeah. But but not everybody knows that. Right. Eight billion people on the planet that I know I'll end with it.

00:53:27.640 I'll end with this and I'll give it to you. But I think of Goodwill Honey. Did you ever watch Goodwill Honey?

00:53:32.140 Yes. So I think there's a line there where one of the professors who's wanting to take Will, you know, who's just a prodigy, a genius.

00:53:38.840 And he wants to take him and use him towards, you know, these ends, but doesn't really care about Will, but cares more about his brain and his ability to think, his talents.

00:53:49.040 And Robin Williams, who really loves Will as a person and is looking out for his best interests, you know, he's trying to defend him.

00:53:55.260 And the professor says, but you don't understand, like, this gift, it can't be wasted.

00:53:59.920 And he says, there's only a handful of people in the whole world who even know how much smarter Will is than we are.

00:54:08.840 like and and so what he's saying is like not not there's there's a handful of people as smart as we

00:54:13.680 are and not and certainly not that there's a handful of people who are as smart as will

00:54:17.720 is no he's saying there's only a handful of people who are even intelligent enough to look

00:54:23.660 at me and you and other world class thinkers and intellectuals and then see that will stands

00:54:30.980 towers above all of us and my point is like for you know as people grow in sanctification and

00:54:37.620 grow in theology, they start to, you know, they can appreciate those who are more theologically

00:54:42.160 inclined. But the reality is there's a lot of people who love Jesus who are still new in the

00:54:48.460 faith. And for those people, they're not even sanctified to the point or theologically astute

00:54:55.400 enough at that point in their walk with Christ to be able to look at this person and that person

00:55:01.640 and tell the distinction between them that, oh, whoa, these guys are both great, but one is

00:55:06.320 actually leaps and bounds above the other, right? I remember a time in my life where I thought

00:55:10.680 this, you know, this, this, I don't even want some of these guys I don't like anymore. So I don't

00:55:15.240 even want to drop their name, but like this guy and this guy are two peas in a pod, right? And

00:55:20.060 then five years go by as you're reading and you're learning and you're like, they're not two peas in

00:55:23.800 a pod. This guy is way, way more gifted than this other guy. And I just, I didn't know enough to

00:55:30.440 even appreciate or discern the distinction. And I say all that to say that there are so many people

00:55:37.500 at the ground level who are just coming into Reformed theology, or people who just got saved,

00:55:44.260 just coming to Christ, just learning how to read their Bible, just learning how to

00:55:48.080 exposit a text and all those kinds of things. And for them, they don't know. And the Lord uses

00:55:54.740 different men at different steps along the journey and and i think that that's a good thing

00:56:01.960 and and in that sense i think we need more you got any thoughts uh a hundred percent hundred

00:56:09.000 everything you said is spot on man um love the illustration with the goodwill hunting i never

00:56:14.820 thought about it like that yeah no i never thought about it like that i mean you you you don't know

00:56:19.980 what you don't know you know and when you're coming in you know like you said people that that

00:56:25.160 i saw coming in and then over time saw that oh wait this ain't what i thought it was you know

00:56:31.680 and i always joke and say the bar podcast is a great gateway drug to uh to reform theology because

00:56:38.520 you know it's a 30 minute shot of you know anybody and doing ministry you know doing doing a good

00:56:44.680 thing in ministry and so 100 man everything you said uh all levels uh is needed you know we like

00:56:53.580 you said it could be somebody that's brand new to christianity not even necessarily point theology

00:56:58.260 but just christianity um and and your your podcast your voice your post your meme uh could be the

00:57:05.460 very thing that you know lead them in the right direction and uh going back to what you talked

00:57:09.780 about with elders, which I'm so happy to be officially a part of a church. There were some

00:57:17.780 years when I was doing the podcast, but I was not because I was coming out of actually started a

00:57:22.080 podcast when I was still attending a charismatic church. Like I was coming out of looking for

00:57:27.340 and, you know, relocated. And it feels really good to be a part of a ministry. Elders that

00:57:35.380 know what I'm doing, familiar with my work, you know, approve of it and have that backing,

00:57:41.780 you know, from that, you know, it feels really good to be in that place. So I definitely

00:57:45.900 double down on the importance of that when it comes to podcasting, because I went so many years

00:57:52.980 without that. You know, at one time I felt like I was podcasting like undercover, like, you know,

00:57:58.320 like I had all these thoughts, these plans, these ideas, but I didn't have the backing of

00:58:05.000 a local pastor, you know, when I started. And if I could rewind it back, I definitely would do it

00:58:09.740 different. So I've seen both sides. So if you're listening, it's super important. It's super,

00:58:15.600 you know, with your spiritual walk, you know, that accountability, that person to, like you

00:58:20.380 said, that's shepherding over this, watching over you, that cares for your soul, having their,

00:58:24.780 having them, you know, bless it or, you know, approve of it or, you know, just confirm it,

00:58:31.920 you know, for some people, you know, cause you know, that, that confirmation that somebody

00:58:36.520 outside of yourself, cause you know, we, we think we're the best when we're just talking in our

00:58:40.520 heads, we need somebody to tell us, you know, Hey, you might want to, you know, wait a little

00:58:44.660 while, let's take a season, you know, or you need to take a break. You need to take a sabbatical,

00:58:49.320 you know, just somebody to, to, to care for your soul and do all that. So I really appreciate you

00:58:54.700 touching on that. That was very, very huge. Uh, and everything else definitely, you know,

00:59:00.280 and agree cool yeah i i wish i'm trying to think of the verse and uh now usually i have the entire

00:59:07.820 bible memorized you know my followers know this no i um but you know by doing this you will protect

00:59:16.500 you and your hearers i know it's paul he's talking to either titus or timothy or you know one of his

00:59:23.220 sons in the faith but by doing so you will protect both you and your hearers so obviously like

00:59:28.800 everybody who's listening to this, they're going to bust out their iPhone and be able to Google.

00:59:32.020 And they're going, well, it's this, Pastor Joel.

00:59:33.500 I was like, yeah, well, okay, but you use your phone.

00:59:35.960 I don't have my phone right now.

00:59:37.760 So anyway, so anybody who's listening, use your phone and look it up and find the reference.

00:59:43.020 But I feel like that's what me and Duane are talking about, that concept, that principle

00:59:47.060 of having people in your life that are going to protect not only you, but also your hearers.

00:59:53.120 And if I remember correctly, the context of the text I'm thinking of isn't so much having

00:59:57.720 people in your life. It's a certain practice. By doing these things, by practicing these things,

01:00:03.160 you'll protect both you and your hearers. So do whatever the apostle Paul says. We're not

01:00:07.480 contradicting that. But in addition to that, have practices in your life. We can say it like this,

01:00:11.920 have certain practices in your life that will protect both you and by virtue of protecting you,

01:00:17.320 your hearers, and have not only practices, but have people in your life who will protect

01:00:21.940 you and your hearers. And I think that's important. The last question I'll ask you,

01:00:27.080 Dwayne is this. What do you think are some... Reformed theology, that's a big umbrella. A lot

01:00:34.120 of stuff can fall on underneath that. What do you feel like are some of the things... Because

01:00:38.000 sometimes I wonder, for lack of a better phrase, is the market oversaturated? What are some topics

01:00:45.060 or some ideas or something that you feel like, man, I don't know if anybody's really done this?

01:00:50.400 And I know you may have a couple ideas. You're like, well, I'm not going to share my best idea.

01:00:53.900 but you got it you got anything that you feel like man it'd be cool if somebody if the lord

01:00:58.760 you know called somebody to rise up and fill this hole yeah yeah yeah so i i do and of course i think

01:01:05.700 of this kind of stuff all the time um that's just you know that's my that's where i'm at um i think

01:01:10.820 especially in the reform camp uh and ligonier has touched on it and it's funny it's not not i'm not

01:01:18.040 trying to brag anybody's listening but they actually like ran this idea by me and i was like

01:01:23.760 yeah I would do this uh the whole uh Luther um um dramatization that was you know yeah yeah that

01:01:31.660 I think that's that's an area where we need more you know um there are a lot of series like the

01:01:39.240 number one podcast uh you know besides Joe Rogan but the number one podcast after that is usually

01:01:44.300 like a a docu-series or something like that or something dramatic or whatever yeah I think we

01:01:49.720 need to tap into that a little bit more on our side because there's so many great stories there's

01:01:54.940 so many great books there's so many things that we could uh we could bring out and you know expose

01:02:01.300 more people to by you know not being a traditional me and you sitting down talking you know every

01:02:06.580 everybody can do that you know anybody can do that right um but i think being on more of the

01:02:11.720 creative side and coming up with you know uh kind of the dramatization or or whatever um and i want

01:02:19.260 to shout out a recent ad to my network uh redeemed podcast it is a biblical dramatization podcast and

01:02:26.620 that's what got my attention um and uh i think that that's definitely a place where we can we

01:02:32.160 could definitely do some more work in and then even the approach um and this is something i'm

01:02:37.420 working on as another podcast is the approach to podcast like it don't have to be this what our

01:02:44.560 setup what we're doing here you know just talking back back and forth it can be storytelling

01:02:49.400 It can be as far as the music and mood could change.

01:02:55.500 You know, it could flow with the conversation.

01:02:58.260 You know, the next project I'm coming out with, I'll link it with you guys.

01:03:02.340 I'm actually, I'm going to drop the whole season at one time.

01:03:05.280 Oh, cool.

01:03:06.080 Netflix style.

01:03:07.420 Yeah, I'm going to do a Netflix style, man.

01:03:09.160 I'm going to drop the whole season.

01:03:10.860 We're up to about eight episodes, me and two other brothers.

01:03:14.660 And we're going to drop the whole season at one time.

01:03:17.000 and uh and that's that's different you know that's that that's a whole that's that's that's

01:03:22.940 that's that's the kind of thing i like is thinking outside the box man and so i think if uh you know

01:03:28.320 if you're interested in getting into that realm those are definitely some spaces that you can

01:03:32.620 slide in and possibly be super successful because there's not a lot of competition in that in that

01:03:39.140 realm right no i i completely agree with you i think those are great ideas it got me thinking

01:03:43.620 One example, the only example I could think of, because I don't typically listen to that style, that type, but there's a lot of people who do, and I think it would be beneficial.

01:03:53.020 But the only thing that I could even think of as I was trying to imagine what you were describing was I listened to the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill with Christianity Today.

01:04:01.580 Now, for me, so I thought this was really well done in terms of the style, the music. 1.00

01:04:06.460 It was just very well produced, and I thought, man, Christians need to do this except it needs to be good. 1.00

01:04:14.360 So that lets you know where I'm at. 1.00

01:04:16.020 You know, I think Mark Driscoll made some mistakes for sure.

01:04:18.960 But I would love if somebody did the rise and fall of Christianity Today.

01:04:22.000 I think that'd be a great show because I feel like, you know,

01:04:25.300 I have some problems with that series.

01:04:27.960 It's like as much as they were saying with Driscoll, I'm like, yeah,

01:04:30.360 I disagree with that.

01:04:31.400 I think Driscoll, you know, he crossed the line there and he did this

01:04:34.040 and he did that.

01:04:35.260 But at the same time, it's like, you know,

01:04:37.460 basically the jury that's judging Driscoll, it's like Driscoll,

01:04:40.220 was he toxic masculinity?

01:04:42.400 Maybe. 0.98

01:04:42.620 but the jury that's judging him is effeminate men. 0.98

01:04:46.040 And Christianity, I think it might as well be called, you know, 0.93

01:04:49.180 Hallmark movies or, you know, or like, I mean, it's, it's, you know, 0.75

01:04:53.920 the sin of effeminacy, you know, I know this is not a topic,

01:04:56.620 but I'll say that the sin of effeminacy is rampant in our pulpits.

01:04:59.940 It's rampant in our churches. We do not have men. We need men. Right.

01:05:04.440 I mean, I saw a shirt the other day that said, govern me harder, please.

01:05:09.500 You know, and like had a picture of some guy with three masks on his face.

01:05:12.380 And I'm like, yeah, that's the men in our nation right now.

01:05:15.360 And that is being led by pastors, pastors who are just bending over backwards, folding,

01:05:22.860 you know, like a light breeze comes and they topple over.

01:05:26.320 And so, yeah, anyways, all that being said, I know I got passionate there for a second.

01:05:30.080 So I have to say that because I can't say anything good.

01:05:33.820 The style, the production was fantastic, but I have to give the disclaimer,

01:05:38.980 Joel Webb does not like Christianity today.

01:05:41.780 I want to see, Doug Wilson said this once, 0.99

01:05:44.440 I want to see the Christianity of yesterday. 0.99

01:05:47.980 I want to see, give me that good old time religion. 0.79

01:05:50.740 Give me the Christianity of John Owen. 0.97

01:05:53.100 Give me the Christianity of Charles Spurgeon. 0.71

01:05:55.360 Give me Christianity yesterday. 0.97

01:05:57.060 Christianity today, I'm a bit disappointed with. 1.00

01:05:59.900 But, you know, so anyway, so have good doctrine.

01:06:02.960 Don't be effeminate, you know, and, you know,

01:06:05.300 have that stall, that lion heart courage of,

01:06:10.060 um i'm thinking of uh john knox and and those kind of guys but at the same time there's nothing wrong

01:06:16.560 with making it a little bit more enjoyable for the listener because you're right duane like

01:06:21.060 if people a dramatis uh i can't even pronounce the word dramatisized is that how you say it

01:06:26.760 dramatisized i don't know yeah you know but like with some music and maybe a narrator maybe you're

01:06:32.060 talking right so maybe you have a discussion for five minutes you know maybe you you shoot it with

01:06:37.060 a three-hour discussion between three guys and then but then you you clip it up and and you have

01:06:42.820 a narrator come in and you have some other visuals during that part and some music swells in at

01:06:47.380 certain points and you know i i think that like that's now that's more work all the stuff we're

01:06:52.220 saying earlier oh yeah no it's work get rid of your four hour a day thing and now it's like

01:06:56.600 you know you know so now it's going to be 14 hours but but man that that could that could

01:07:03.300 blow up so you're right you're right it's a missing space man for sure you're right and man

01:07:08.840 hasn't that you know last thing i i thought of but just hasn't that been a missing space in the in

01:07:14.560 just the christian world for so long that like because basically what we're saying the missing

01:07:19.340 space is is doing things well christians have good things to say but we just man when it comes to art

01:07:27.080 when it comes to you know entertainment when it comes to we we do things because we know that

01:07:32.780 what's most important is the message which that is true but we use that as an excuse to do things

01:07:38.760 poorly so often and then we wonder why we why we lost the culture because the the culture doesn't

01:07:45.420 just care about the message the culture does care about art and all those kind of things and we can't

01:07:49.400 do art at the expense of the message but i think sometimes it's like all right yeah we don't want

01:07:53.780 to be secret friendly and we don't want to have smoke machines and laser lights and you know it's

01:07:57.620 But we're talking, it's different than the Lord's Day worship at church.

01:08:01.820 The Lord's prescriptions and guidelines for how we worship him in spirit and in truth

01:08:06.340 is different than creating a show for people to watch.

01:08:12.160 That's just a different realm.

01:08:13.660 And so I think, yeah, I'm all about the regular principle of worship

01:08:16.900 when the saints gather on the Lord's Day.

01:08:19.080 But we don't have to have the regular principle of worship applied to a podcast.

01:08:25.480 So I'm with you, brother.

01:08:26.600 brother, you got any, I'll give you the last word, any extra thoughts, or you want to let our guys,

01:08:30.480 our listeners know how they can follow you? Yeah, man. So, uh, first brother, I appreciate

01:08:35.000 you bringing me on. Definitely an honor. I thought you inboxed the wrong person, just to be honest.

01:08:41.800 But no, man, I definitely appreciate that. Um, you can find me everywhere. Dwayne 21, D-A-W-A-I-N,

01:08:48.480 the number 21, Instagram, Twitter, even if you search it on Facebook, you can find me.

01:08:52.220 And I guess the last words, man, is, you know, do everything to the glory of God, you know, and when you do those things to the glory of God, just like we just talked about, that means doing it in excellence.

01:09:04.980 That means doing it with good quality, doing it with good effort, because, you know, you work unto God, you know.

01:09:11.620 And so just make that, whether it's podcasting, whether it's blogging, whether it's YouTubing or whatever it may be, just keep that in mind that, you know, we want to give him our best.

01:09:23.940 You know, this is our offering to him, you know, outside of regulative worship.

01:09:28.900 I would definitely agree with you there.

01:09:30.280 But this is also our best on the art side and the gifts and talent side.

01:09:36.260 Amen.

01:09:37.080 Thanks, Dwayne.

01:09:37.640 Thanks for coming on the show.

01:09:39.120 Thank you.

01:09:39.480 as a special thank you for your gift of any amount we'll be happy to send you a free digital

01:09:45.360 book from our store to access this offer visit right response ministries.com slash offer we

01:09:52.100 highly recommend pastor joel's book am i truly saved if you or someone you know has wrestled

01:09:57.080 with doubts about the love of god this would be a great resource as a reminder to get this offer

01:10:02.440 go to right response ministries.com slash offer and thank you for your generous support

01:10:09.480 You

The NXR Podcast - January 18, 2022

THEOLOGY APPLIED - How To Start A Christian Podcast

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