The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - How Women's Ministry Went Wrong

00:00:00.440 Applying God's Word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.

00:00:11.180 All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied.

00:00:14.320 This is Pastor Joel Webin with Right Response Ministries.

00:00:16.740 Today I have Rachel Jankovic as a guest on our show.

00:00:21.640 We're going to be talking about the title for our topic is

00:00:24.260 How Women's Ministry Went Wrong. 0.56

00:00:26.860 How Women's Ministry Went Wrong. 0.99

00:00:29.360 So I feel like Rachel has a lot to say about this. She's spoken about this in her writing, her blogs, her podcasting, all those kinds of things. And so I'm really excited and honored and privileged to have her as a guest. So without further ado, Rachel, could you tell our audience a little bit about yourself?

00:00:46.340 sure thanks for having me glad to be here and i am a wife and mother that's that's what i do with

00:00:54.360 my life i'm married to luke we have seven kids ages almost 16 down to almost five um so most of

00:01:02.240 my life what i'm doing is feeding people taking people to school doing the laundry that's that's

00:01:07.200 really what i do um but i also have written a few books for mothers and then followed that up with 0.85

00:01:14.020 a book on identity because of how many identity problems I was seeing among Christian mothers. 1.00

00:01:20.220 When they would ask questions, I think, actually, you just don't understand what it means to 1.00

00:01:23.680 be a Christian and what your life is supposed to be like and what you're for.

00:01:28.000 That one's called You Who, and then I'm heavily involved in the Bible Reading Challenge and

00:01:32.700 just trying to be a faithful Christian wife and mother here in Moscow, Idaho.

00:01:37.800 That's great.

00:01:38.760 Let's go ahead and just dive right into our topic. 0.85

00:01:41.160 What are some of the problems that you see with the typical women's ministry in our local churches today?

00:01:49.800 Okay, that's a real big question.

00:01:53.380 I would say I think that women's ministry probably started as like a women's auxiliary type event in churches,

00:02:02.420 meaning that women were getting together to work on behalf of the church.

00:02:07.540 Like, you know, you think of wartime things or even trying to earn money for the organ or, you know, whatever it was that they were doing, women were getting together to work together.

00:02:17.560 And that was that was the goal. Well, as our culture, things have really shifted.

00:02:22.940 So if you think about that old, old school kind of women are sewing quilts and crocheting baby blankets for the needy. 1.00

00:02:30.440 Well, that's less likely to be needed now. Right. 1.00

00:02:33.440 We don't need we don't actually need people to be crocheting the blankets because we have mass produced things we have.

00:02:39.980 You know, like the situation, the cultural situation changed.

00:02:44.260 So what I think happened is you still had this women getting together.

00:02:48.340 But we but we made the women in the church themselves the work of the women in the church.

00:02:54.480 So instead of women working shoulder to shoulder for the kingdom and for the gospel, it turned into a circle where we're facing one another. 0.66

00:03:03.440 Where it's all about ourselves.

00:03:07.160 And I think that's unhealthy.

00:03:10.040 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

00:03:12.480 I feel like in our nation today, you know, you always hear the term easy believism.

00:03:17.920 And we could say that part of the problem with the evangelical church in America is it's just too dang easy to be a Christian.

00:03:25.320 And it sounds like kind of part of what you're saying is maybe more specifically, it's too easy to be a Christian woman.

00:03:32.860 There's just because of modern conveniences.

00:03:35.380 The bar is very low.

00:03:36.380 Yeah, because of modern conveniences. 0.73

00:03:38.080 So I hear you saying that if I want to love my wife well, I need to sell our dishwasher and microwave.

00:03:44.380 Is that correct?

00:03:45.560 Of course, yeah.

00:03:46.760 That's what I mean.

00:03:47.680 No, and I actually have, I serve on what is effectively our women's ministry in our church.

00:03:54.880 and we but I can say that it's a tremendous blessing of fellowship for women to be working

00:04:02.260 together towards something so I'm not suggesting that we discard the ways that women get to know

00:04:09.080 each other the ways that we support one another the ways that women can be thoughtful of one

00:04:13.140 another but the focus of what we're trying to do has an awful lot to do with how healthy that kind

00:04:19.080 of support will be, right? Like how healthy, how actually God-centered, how actually encouraging

00:04:26.700 the health is. So you asked me, I mean, I only said one thing that I think has gone wrong. But

00:04:32.440 if you think about this system we've made where the women are all facing each other, and you have 0.78

00:04:36.940 women in charge whose job it is to have needy women in the church, right? It's essentially a 0.87

00:04:43.780 welfare system like they would think that the women's ministry is failing if nobody shows up 0.74

00:04:49.760 for it but if all the women are not desperately emotionally needy and they don't need to go 0.98

00:04:55.300 they're like i don't need to show up for this moment because they're not needed to work it's 0.60

00:05:00.580 like therefore they're consumers of ministry right they're supposed to come and receive something

00:05:07.560 that will bless them if they're not coming that would be seen as a failure right of somebody but

00:05:13.600 But the reality is they might just be doing well, they might be spiritually healthy, and that that would kill off the women's ministry in some ways.

00:05:22.280 And the other way is that problem that you end up with women teachers, where the godly women in the church become sort of the pastors for women, instead of themselves being the most hospitable, the most, you know, like, instead of them pursuing the roles that women are called to, 0.74

00:05:43.600 They are turning into like the pastors for the women church in the church. 0.82

00:05:47.800 Yeah.

00:05:48.320 Yeah.

00:05:48.620 I have definitely witnessed that.

00:05:51.920 You kept saying this face-to-face versus shoulder-to-shoulder. 0.58

00:05:56.480 It reminds me of C.S. Lewis when he talks about the essence of friendship.

00:06:01.120 He says, you know, the essence of friendship.

00:06:02.860 Yeah, exactly.

00:06:03.620 It's this you too, in essence of like, meaning that we're not just, we're not, we're certainly

00:06:09.800 not navel gazing.

00:06:10.680 Sadly, I think a lot of women's ministry, it's gone beyond face to face. 0.99

00:06:13.620 And I think you would agree with this. 0.90

00:06:14.580 It's now gone to just looking at your own, your own navel.

00:06:18.580 Everybody get out your sin and let's talk about it.

00:06:21.120 I do think, and in Four Loves, I think he says that, that those who are going nowhere can have no fellow travelers.

00:06:27.380 Right.

00:06:27.540 And that is the thing is that there's, wow, women are in this circle, pouring out their grief and supporting one another in their messes and their tangles.

00:06:37.880 And they're like, just hear it and feel it with one another.

00:06:40.680 nobody's going anywhere so they're actually still missing what they need desperately which is the

00:06:47.080 companionship of fellow travelers yeah but there's no trajectory so they think they're happy they

00:06:53.460 think they're getting it but they're still missing what they're longing for if that makes sense yeah

00:06:58.700 it sounds like what you're saying is women godly women need a mission and and it doesn't need to

00:07:04.140 be focused on themselves but like what are we doing together and i always think about like

00:07:08.920 it's not like men are called to work and women aren't we just have two different arenas where

00:07:13.320 we're called to work and men in many ways work outside of the home with provision and protection

00:07:19.600 whereas women are called to work in the home but it's still working there's still a mission and if

00:07:25.560 if women aren't thinking in terms of mission or working then it just yeah it just becomes kind of

00:07:30.880 this this love fest of you know you're amazing you're awesome and that's what women's ministry 0.99

00:07:35.300 consists of rather than you have a mission. Are you doing it well? If so, okay, I'll see you on

00:07:40.780 the Lord's day when the pastor preaches to us because you're healthy. And if you're not doing

00:07:44.460 it well, then let's, let's, you know, as an extracurricular, not a substitute to the Lord's

00:07:48.880 day to being a part of this local church, but extracurricular, let's, uh, let's get an older

00:07:53.680 woman around you to help beef up your, you know, your, your success in fulfilling your mission 0.99

00:07:59.240 at home. Would you agree with that? Yes. Yes. I think I would mostly agree with that. The one

00:08:06.320 thing I would say is that I do think men and women are called to different areas, but I don't think

00:08:11.400 husbands and wives are called to different areas. They're called to be a godly household and

00:08:18.520 building, you know, for the kingdom, it's a kingdom building calling that a husband and wife

00:08:23.820 share. The actual roles are different, but it's not like what I'm doing at home is not my husband's

00:08:31.740 sphere. It's, it's what I'm doing with him unto the Lord. So it is different in the sense that,

00:08:39.060 yes, I think I'm called to different, I'm called to different work than he is, but it's not like

00:08:44.660 they don't overlap. Like I'm called to this and he's called over there and we're not actually

00:08:49.800 called to the same life together that's helpful so you're pushing back on like what i said in terms

00:08:54.360 of okay we have two different the difference between men and women is we have two different

00:08:58.040 spheres because you're right i i should clarify it's less of that it's more of no like we're both

00:09:02.840 trying to build the kingdom by building godly households and so it's not so much we're working

00:09:07.480 in two different spheres but but we're working in two different ways you're doing one thing

00:09:12.200 and i'm doing another yeah exactly so it's the same but i would say my husband and i so i think

00:09:18.680 it's an important distinction that what i'm doing at home i'm doing as his helper i'm not doing it

00:09:24.760 i'm not doing it because this is my work i'm doing it because this is his work and he and god has

00:09:30.440 given him me to help him get this accomplished so that is it is different as far as it's not as

00:09:37.700 i don't think that the home is like the woman's domain like the woman is stuck here i think it's

00:09:43.840 my domain. Like God has called me to do this work on behalf of us as a family and his people.

00:09:50.480 That's really good. I've heard it said before, I can't remember the exact reference, but I've

00:09:54.520 heard it said that, um, that a woman is always like similar to what your dad has said with

00:10:00.180 Doug Wilson, uh, in terms of like a man, even his absence, uh, he's still, no matter what,

00:10:05.360 he's the head of his home. And, uh, and so whether that's an empty chair or a abusive chair at the

00:10:10.600 table or a godly chair either way he's the head of his home he's just he's a good one or a bad one 0.93

00:10:15.340 in the same way would you would you i've heard it said that a woman is always going to be the 0.53

00:10:20.720 helpmate of a man it's either going to be her husband or it's going to be she's going to be

00:10:25.120 building the household of her husband or she's going to be building if she works for some company

00:10:30.260 she's nine times out of ten building another man's kingdom she's she's she's she's helping

00:10:37.160 a man build something as his helpmate. And what we want to encourage women to do is 1.00

00:10:42.840 use that energy, use those gifts, use that love and everything that God's given you to build up 0.83

00:10:48.400 your husband's, his house. Would you agree with that statement? I don't know. I actually think

00:10:54.520 I'm thinking as you say that, I don't know that I would say that in the same way that there's no

00:10:59.700 exceptions that that's what would be happening. But I think it's very typical. I mean, that's

00:11:06.400 that that's that chesterton quote right about the million women who rose up and said we will not be

00:11:13.160 dictated to and became stenographers like like don't tell me what to do i'll be your secretary

00:11:20.080 right just it's hilarious but but yes i believe that that's often the case but i don't know that

00:11:26.840 i'd want to say that's a universal gotcha so so you want to say it's as universal as a man being

00:11:32.900 the head of his home. But you would be willing to admit that there is an irony that often

00:11:38.120 seems to be true. Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah, that's typically the case, for sure.

00:11:42.220 Fair enough. Okay, so here's another question. How can pastors who biblically should be male,

00:11:47.320 how can they effectively love and shepherd 50, typically 50% of their church, namely the women?

00:11:56.460 Okay, so when it comes to women's ministry, I sometimes make this distinction that I think

00:12:01.620 women should be thinking in terms of a ministry of women. What can we do together that is a

00:12:08.060 ministry versus there's really only one ministry of the church and it's for men and women, right?

00:12:15.040 The ministry of the word and sacrament. That's not something that is for men only, right? So

00:12:21.360 because the office of preaching and pastoring is for men biblically, that doesn't mean that

00:12:28.080 it is only effective for the men in the congregation. It's for all of God's people,

00:12:33.100 including, you know, children, women, everyone should be under the faithful teaching of God's

00:12:37.960 word. And that's really the ministry. The one ministry of the church is that. So I would say

00:12:44.000 the most critical thing is for a pastor to be faithfully preaching God's word, faithfully

00:12:50.780 teaching God's word. And one of the most common ways that pastors don't love the women in their

00:12:56.980 church is by being afraid of them. And I think that that, that I have joked sometimes one of

00:13:02.220 the best things, my husband, one of the most wonderful things about my husband is how he's

00:13:06.440 not at all afraid of me. And what I mean by that is that it's a real mercy to women in a church

00:13:13.960 when the pastor is not afraid to say something that might upset some women in the church are

00:13:19.600 afraid to, because I think this has been a really bad little cycle that we've gotten into. The

00:13:25.240 pastor's afraid to directly address women in the congregation. And because he's afraid to directly

00:13:32.160 address women, like because he's not a woman, because the women will, you know, in a lot of

00:13:37.920 places there will be huge outcry and the women will get their husbands mad and every, you know,

00:13:42.040 it'll turn into a big scene if he addresses the women. So then what they end up doing is they 1.00

00:13:47.280 have a bunch of women who need something. So then they start a women's ministry where the whole

00:13:52.640 premise of why they're asking a woman to do it is because we don't want to say a thing that

00:13:57.440 actually addresses the women so then you have created this bizarrely emotional situation where

00:14:04.120 we we exist to serve the emotions of the women in the church rather than the church exists or that

00:14:11.380 the preacher is preaching because he serves god and his word right and the and the people are

00:14:16.900 called to come under that and obey god's word instead it's like well we'll start a whole other

00:14:22.160 branch of things where we won't say the hard things to women. And I, and I think that that's

00:14:27.120 just, it really, really belittles women to think that, that godly Christian women cannot hear

00:14:35.660 God's word preached and apply it to their life and actually be as encouraged by that as, as men

00:14:42.780 are. Yeah. No, you're right. It's demeaning to women that they won't be as edifying. They won't

00:14:49.620 be as encouraged, but also that they, um, that they can't, they can't handle it, right. That

00:14:56.060 they don't handle it. If God's word says something to you, that's right. So like, I mean, if I, it's

00:15:01.540 so funny how, you know, like, I mean, if you just do like a YouTube search for like courageous

00:15:06.480 preachers and courageous sermons, um, you know, like it's so often, if I had a dollar for every

00:15:14.200 time i hear some pastor you know just railing on the men in the church you know you you're sleazy 0.97

00:15:21.380 lazy you know you're with your porn problems yeah exactly you're lazy yeah exactly you're boys who 0.99

00:15:28.620 can shave right if you know if we had a dollar like amen amen and i'm thinking i'm thinking 0.99

00:15:34.180 that's courageous it doesn't sound like it took much courage because i hear a roaring applause

00:15:39.880 in the background. Um, you want to hear a pastor get up there and say, I know you're being lazy

00:15:45.180 housewives and you're disrespecting your husband. Yeah. It's not going to go over something. Right. 1.00

00:15:49.140 That would take some courage. I would take like, when, when I, when I want to be inspired by

00:15:54.000 courageous men, I like to read, you know, just the first chapter of Amos that starts off with,

00:15:59.180 you know, calling women cows, you know, like that's, I'm like, wow, 2020. I would say that I,

00:16:04.940 then I'm not sure that I think that style of preaching is super effective in

00:16:09.720 any direction. So yes, it could be courageous, but it might,

00:16:13.300 it might not be effective.

00:16:15.200 Yeah. So I'm not saying you have to use that tone,

00:16:17.260 but the fact that like Amos, a man is, and,

00:16:20.180 and but that's what you're getting at is that it's not about the man.

00:16:22.880 It's about the word. It's the word of God. Amos had the word of God.

00:16:27.960 And so the credibility doesn't, doesn't rest ultimately with the messenger.

00:16:32.500 It rests with the message.

00:16:34.060 And I can't help but think that some of this is just the outflowing implications of our

00:16:38.640 man-centered churches, our man-centered ministries, our man-centered theology, that if it's all

00:16:44.340 about meeting felt needs, well, then eventually, if it's all about the people and not about

00:16:49.920 God, as it goes to the people in the pews, well, eventually that's going to affect the

00:16:55.240 pulpit, meaning that the person in the pulpit, the authority begins to rest on him, the man,

00:17:00.780 rather than the message.

00:17:03.160 And so I think a lot of times men, male pastors,

00:17:05.540 don't feel like they can really call out some of the sins

00:17:08.560 that the Bible very clearly addresses in women 0.54

00:17:11.160 because they think that they don't have the credentials to do so 1.00

00:17:14.340 by virtue of not being a woman.

00:17:16.760 But ultimately that entire sentiment, what it does in effect

00:17:19.940 is it transfers the authority from the word to the man.

00:17:26.260 Yeah, to the person.

00:17:27.240 So one thing that's interesting about that is that 0.95

00:17:29.960 i'm a woman so i can call out women on their sins but i can tell you that it doesn't go better like

00:17:36.760 it's not it's not like just because you're a woman and you say listen i also have toddlers and you

00:17:43.000 need to get up and deal with this like you can't you can't like if someone says you know i woke up

00:17:48.440 and my toddler had a dirty diaper and so i just hid in my bed for an hour well i could be like

00:17:53.400 you know what i've woken up and had a toddler with a dirty diaper also and your job is to get

00:17:57.720 up and go handle that. And it doesn't matter because what they're saying you have to have

00:18:02.640 experienced is exactly what they're doing. You have to have stumbled exactly the way they have

00:18:07.840 and not see any solution to it. That's what's required. Because the fact that I've lived

00:18:13.720 through things doesn't make it more attractive to women who don't want to actually hear 0.78

00:18:18.480 the answer to it. That's super helpful. It reminds me of Jesus. He's a merciful high priest

00:18:24.680 because he too has been tempted, but he associates with the lowly, not because he shares in our sin,

00:18:30.660 but because he's shared in a commonality of temptation experiences. So what you're saying

00:18:35.800 is that, that like what, what sadly many women in the church today are wanting is, is not even

00:18:43.000 a shared experience. Even that is kind of a veil for what they really want is a shared,

00:18:47.940 a shared surrender to the flesh would you would you agree with that it has to be you also are

00:18:54.860 stuck in the same mud with me not not like you know the way to get out of this and you're giving

00:19:00.260 me a hand yeah it's like i don't want i don't want an escape i don't want to get out i i want

00:19:06.440 to be here which you actually see in things all over the internet like um you know there are

00:19:11.740 always these little posts of people being like here's 20 things you should never have said to

00:19:16.440 your friend who had a miscarriage right or here where they're itemizing all the time what you may

00:19:22.060 not do to me because the privileged position has been switched to be the person who's actively in

00:19:28.380 sin or in a problem in some way that's the one that's the privileged position the people who

00:19:34.460 are not in the problem are the ones that we perceive as being sin you know someone who

00:19:39.840 reaches out their hand to you saying all things work together for good yeah we'll be like you

00:19:45.980 disgust me you heartless you know like if you if you quoted that at a time like this you know right

00:19:51.920 you're being insensitive yeah no you're right so like privilege privilege has shifted to the one

00:19:57.380 who is in the muck and the mire and with privilege of course in our culture today i mean what you're

00:20:02.160 speaking to is more generally it's not just related to women but but on the whole with

00:20:07.760 privilege in our culture today comes power so that so the power the one who holds the power

00:20:12.140 is uh the one who is the one in the sin that's right the one the problem is the one with the

00:20:17.040 power about how everybody else ought to get them out of it and i am told we we i have teenagers

00:20:22.960 uh and we always laugh about this because sometimes if you're like okay somebody's in a bad

00:20:28.180 mood and say you're talking to them about it or you're teasing them about it and they're they'll

00:20:32.680 be like mom i it's not helping you know like this isn't helping your efforts to make me overcome

00:20:37.660 this are not helping. And we always laugh about this. They laugh also. I just said, that's great.

00:20:43.000 If you know what will help, then why don't you go handle it yourself? Because of course,

00:20:47.960 of course, I'm not going to have the, like, of course me saying, all right, we got to get past

00:20:53.000 this. Of course, I don't always know exactly what is the thing that will pull you out of it.

00:20:56.880 But in the absence of you handling it, I'm having to try. So if you have the, if you have the perfect

00:21:04.400 acknowledge about how to get a woman who's going through a grief to not be bitter at everyone and

00:21:10.400 to not whatever, well, then go ahead and handle it yourself. You shouldn't be just telling everyone

00:21:14.940 else how to do it. Right. Right. Yeah. That's good. You keep using this phrase, like get out

00:21:19.300 of it, get out of it. And it just keeps making me think of, well, it just makes me think of like in

00:21:25.180 our culture today and the church sadly is no exception, but one of the most esteemed virtues

00:21:30.880 seems to be empathy. So like when you say, get me out of it, whereas, you know, you've, you've

00:21:35.780 said multiple times now, what, what many women sadly want is when they're in it and the proverbial

00:21:40.820 it being sin, um, weakness, struggling, suffering, difficult, it's this quicksand. And when someone 1.00

00:21:47.720 is in that quicksand, uh, rather than, than a helping hand to get them out, what they want is

00:21:52.620 for somebody else not to get them out, but to get in, to, to, uh, not to, not to like sympathy is

00:21:58.840 to suffer with, uh, but empathy is to suffer in. And, and so I think that that's, that's not just

00:22:04.980 particular to women, but our culture as a whole right now is just all about empathy, empathy,

00:22:10.140 empathy, just even watching the DNC. I mean, if I, you know, if, if we could some, if we played a

00:22:15.300 drinking game and you had to take a, take a swig every time the word empathy was said by Michelle

00:22:19.500 Obama and everybody else, like we'd be plastic, you know, I'd be disqualified for being an elder.

00:22:24.100 So could you talk about that?

00:22:26.740 Yeah, I know I'm going to get the details of this wrong because it's been quite a while since I read Pilgrim's Progress.

00:22:32.440 But I should have because now I'm going to cite it anyways.

00:22:35.160 All right.

00:22:35.700 I think it's Christian and Hopeful who end up in Doubter's Castle.

00:22:40.340 Like they end up locked up and it's like they're stuck in there because they went off of the way and things are – so they're in a big tangle, right?

00:22:49.140 They're doubting everything.

00:22:50.580 It's a terrible time.

00:22:51.500 uh i think it's the giant despair's castle and they're in there and i think it might be some

00:22:57.960 other character mr greatheart or someone who who comes there but that character who comes is the

00:23:04.220 one who he doesn't come in there to curl up with them and be sad with them he comes in there to

00:23:10.600 rebuke them and tell them that the key is in their pocket like you have the key to get out of here

00:23:15.300 What are you doing? And I think that that that's the problem is that we've we've taken it as a great thing that empathy is for someone who is not currently locked in Doubter's Castle to go in there and sit and weep with them.

00:23:29.900 But if you actually know the answer, if you know Christ, if you know the answer, then you're being awful to go just sit in there and weep with them.

00:23:39.680 right like that's that's really unkind right um and and so yeah i think christians just need to

00:23:46.140 have a thicker skin about being accused of being unkind when what you're offering is kindness you

00:23:52.520 know if you think but christ this is kindness this is mercy and but we're so vulnerable to

00:23:58.500 being told that we're being unkind or that we're not like that's a thing that stresses christians

00:24:03.620 out yeah so consequently it's used all the time on us right like you're told that all the time so

00:24:10.820 yeah well you're gonna have to get a thicker skin about that yeah i completely agree yeah i i think

00:24:17.420 um we often we want just a fellow cellmate as we're rotting in in jail rather than actually

00:24:24.960 someone being an extension of christ himself uh fulfilling the role of a deliverer like we're

00:24:30.680 We're called to be an extension of Christ where we are delivering people from bondage and from sin.

00:24:38.240 But in our culture today, people don't want deliverance.

00:24:42.020 It reminds me of Jesus when he says, do you want to be well?

00:24:46.340 In John chapter 5, the man who's lame at the pool of Bethesda.

00:24:50.480 And it seems like such a pointless question, but it's Jesus, so there's probably a point.

00:24:57.100 But do you want to be well?

00:24:58.180 Implying not everybody does.

00:25:00.440 Not everybody wants to be well.

00:25:02.840 Certainly not.

00:25:03.760 They don't.

00:25:04.820 I also think about, like you said, like mourning with those who mourn.

00:25:07.380 So that empathetic, you know, just join me in my misery.

00:25:10.340 Join me in my pain.

00:25:11.540 Don't actually help me.

00:25:12.540 Don't help me get out.

00:25:13.440 Suffer, not with, but in.

00:25:15.420 Get in the muck and mire.

00:25:16.400 It makes me think of, you know, another, you know, very, very, very often used scripture today, Romans 12, you know, mourn with those who mourn.

00:25:24.740 But I can't help but think that the first half of the verse is rejoice with those who rejoice.

00:25:29.120 And if we look at, you know, if we just cross-reference over to 1 Corinthians 13 with rejoicing, we see that love, that is biblical love, the love that imitates God who is love, rejoices, but it rejoices only in the truth.

00:25:44.360 And so if we took that rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn, and we say, but true Christian rejoicing only rejoices in the truth.

00:25:51.680 And then we just apply that to the second half of the verse, meaning that we should only mourn in the truth.

00:25:57.080 Then one of the first questions we have to ask, I feel like, and you correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the first questions we should ask our fellow brother or sister in Christ, if they're mourning, is are you mourning in the truth?

00:26:07.620 Because I can only mourn with you if you're mourning righteously.

00:26:11.880 If we overturn Roe versus Wade, there would be millions of people mourning in our nation the loss of their legal right to murder their children.

00:26:19.920 But as Christians, obviously, we don't mourn with them.

00:26:22.780 So it's got to be the implicit, you know, component of mourn with those who mourn is mourn with those who mourn righteously.

00:26:31.560 And if we're mourning with someone who is mourning sinfully, then we're really just validating and affirming their sin.

00:26:39.400 Would you agree with that sentiment?

00:26:41.820 Yes.

00:26:42.260 Although I still like, so say someone goes through a real great major loss or tragedy, Christians are called to mourn with that person.

00:26:50.460 And we're also called to keep them on the path of godly mourning.

00:26:54.020 So it doesn't mean like if a woman loses her husband and she starts to say something or starts to be angry with God that you're like, well, I'm out of here.

00:27:02.840 You know, you need to have companionship of people.

00:27:05.680 Yes.

00:27:06.220 You know, focusing you on Christ.

00:27:07.780 But a thing that I would say that happens more commonly now is people say, don't talk to me about that.

00:27:15.780 I mentioned that already.

00:27:16.900 You know, all things work together for good people.

00:27:18.920 I don't talk about that kind of thing.

00:27:20.360 Don't talk about Christ in time like this.

00:27:22.500 I just feel my pain.

00:27:23.940 Don't try to say don't try to say godly things.

00:27:26.860 And one of the things and they often say because the Bible says weep with those who weep.

00:27:31.840 Right.

00:27:32.100 They're like, so that's what I'm doing.

00:27:34.380 I'm going to weep with those who weep.

00:27:36.100 And one of the things I think is so interesting about that is, have you ever met a Christian who really knows the Lord, really loves the Lord, who could point to Christ and talk of Christ in the face of a tragedy and not be weeping with those who weep?

00:27:53.440 Like, like, I think, you know, you, someone loses a child and you go to talk to them about our savior and our hope in Christ. It's not like that's a feelingless event. Like you're talking about our dearest hope and our fiercest love. It's not like you're talking about the thing that doesn't matter at all.

00:28:12.000 It's not platitudes.

00:28:13.380 It's not. 1.00

00:28:14.120 And of course, I can imagine a time that a Christian who's too afraid of what's happening would just want to paper some Bible verses onto it and leave so they could get out of there. 1.00

00:28:26.100 But that's just someone who's not going to be helped no matter what. 1.00

00:28:29.440 Right.

00:28:29.640 Like that's someone who's just too fearful to be helped in that time.

00:28:32.700 But all the real tragedies I can think of, you have a real Christian who loves the Lord.

00:28:39.220 They're weeping with those who weep while they're pointing to Christ.

00:28:42.980 There's no way that they can do that while not caring.

00:28:46.680 And so that's why even your weeping is truthful in that moment.

00:28:52.160 Right.

00:28:52.620 No, I completely agree.

00:28:54.040 And what you're describing, even some of the hypothetical situations you threw out were, again, were things that I would categorize as mourning or weeping righteously, like the loss of a child.

00:29:06.720 Oh, yeah.

00:29:07.160 Or the loss of your husband.

00:29:08.340 Certainly those are good things.

00:29:09.840 Whereas, sadly, there are moments where what's being mourned is something that the loss of something that in Christ we were never actually even meant to have something that we're something that we're supposed to lose, like self, you know, and like I've, you know, like so the woman, you know, who's weeping the loss of her own identity because now she's a mother.

00:29:32.780 And, you know, so but yeah, that's great.

00:29:35.920 Yes, I don't. I, even there though, I think a Christian coming alongside to point them to Christ, it's still going to be talking about their most closely held dearest beliefs. It's compassionate to do that. It's not, it's not like that's missing compassion that you're engaged in the deeper discussion with someone, even if they're having a petty problem.

00:29:57.660 Yeah, that's good. Yeah, because God cares about our little problems.

00:30:02.980 Our petty problems.

00:30:04.180 Yeah, amen. Well, because really in the big scheme of things with the God of the universe, they're all petty problems. That's right.

00:30:11.100 Okay, so here's another question. Should women teach other women? 1.00

00:30:14.640 So whatever form of women discipling women, because I know you believe it. 0.68

00:30:19.200 So whether there's a formal women's ministry or not, that's a different subject.

00:30:25.120 But certainly we both believe that women should be discipling other women.

00:30:30.900 And so in that discipleship, whatever the context may be, in that discipleship, should there be a lot of emphasis on women teaching other women doctrines, like theology proper, teaching them about the Trinity or the two natures of Christ?

00:30:51.300 or should should there be kind of a intentional focus in the teaching with women teaching other

00:30:59.440 women should it be should it be more regulated to teaching things that specifically relate to

00:31:05.180 women and my question is coming from just to give you a heads up my question is coming from Titus 2

00:31:10.360 but this could be you know I this could be too too narrow of a reading of the text and so I'm

00:31:15.880 open to your pushback. But Titus 2, starting in verse 3, says, older women likewise are to be

00:31:22.180 reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach. So there is a 0.99

00:31:28.360 teaching capacity. They are to teach what is good. And so, verse 4 now, and so train the young women

00:31:34.360 to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind and

00:31:40.160 submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled. Would you see that

00:31:45.940 verse 3 and 4 of Titus 2 as this is what women should teach other women and hold that real tight, 0.95

00:31:53.060 like almost exclusively teaching these things? Or would you have a category for a bunch of women 0.98

00:31:59.920 in the church getting together and a woman teaching them, we're going to teach doctrine of 1.00

00:32:04.520 gone. What do you think? I think that this is actually like, I just want to be clear that I

00:32:11.840 don't think scripture is overdoing itself on clarity on this, which means that I would

00:32:17.680 probably really have a problem. Like, I think it could be way more harmful to have a situation

00:32:23.760 where the pastor is saying the women are not allowed to talk theology together. I think that

00:32:28.960 that's just creepy in a way right like to be like we're banning you from these discussions or

00:32:35.020 whatever that would be weird what i can say practically speaking so i mentioned already

00:32:40.200 that that i'm heavily involved in the bible reading challenge this is this is a thing that 0.81

00:32:45.260 the women in our women's ministry this is a thing that the women in our church do which is hosting

00:32:51.080 this bible reading challenge where we're encouraging one another to be in the word

00:32:54.920 We're pushing, we're trying to get women who've never read their Bibles to be reading their

00:32:59.400 Bibles.

00:32:59.820 We're really working to get women in the Word.

00:33:03.100 We do specifically not teach doctrine, and that's intentional, and the intention there

00:33:12.000 is that we intend to teach a love of the Word.

00:33:15.320 We want to teach the habits of being in the Word.

00:33:18.280 We do not want to get into trying to teach everyone doctrine.

00:33:21.880 does that mean that we don't talk about doctrine no it doesn't it's like table fellowship we do

00:33:27.340 talk about right we do talk about what does this mean what's this about ask your pastor talk to

00:33:32.300 you know like look it's like so so i have no problem at all with women being very i want

00:33:39.800 women to be very word centric and doctrine literate so yes i am very very in favor like

00:33:46.600 all of our daughters are receiving the same education as our sons we want them learning

00:33:52.160 doctrine and we want them learning theology and we want them to be well educated and thoughtful

00:33:57.200 so it's not like i i don't ever want to be perceived as saying women don't need you know

00:34:03.760 like because you'll see people now saying things like women need theology too and it's like well

00:34:08.740 of course they do because women need god and we need to understand god as he's revealed himself

00:34:14.140 So, of course, but do women need to be trying to be pastors, like trying to trying to look through all the commentaries and do all this? 0.95

00:34:23.780 And I would just say no, because this is going to be a weird this is going to be a weird example. 0.86

00:34:29.700 Just stick with me for a second. So when my husband goes to work and he's out doing all this on behalf of our family, he brings home a paycheck.

00:34:40.200 Well, I translate that paycheck into hot food on the table, right? Like I translate his work

00:34:47.680 into something that, that blesses my family, that blesses the children. But when I bless the

00:34:54.180 children with a hot meal, I'm blessing them with the love of their father, right? Like they're,

00:34:59.640 they're the love of their father elsewhere is something that I have translated into physical

00:35:04.680 comfort and love for for them so i think in many ways in a really healthy functioning church what

00:35:12.780 you have happening is a godly pastor preaching the word and the men receive that and do one kind

00:35:21.060 of work with that and the women do the translation work and it doesn't mean that we don't need to

00:35:26.820 know what like we need to know the thing that we're translating right you know like we need to

00:35:32.600 know that but we're not that's not our emphasis is not on that part so we joke that so the bible

00:35:39.080 reading challenge we have i think it's close to 25 000 women in the facebook group doing the bible

00:35:45.040 reading right now but it's like a hospitality ministry of the women in our church but we're

00:35:51.060 spending the money in the bank of of all these women being taught from the word being right like

00:35:57.620 The money that we're spending in this hospitality is the money of male leadership and teaching, and that's what we're doing.

00:36:06.640 So we're not trying to start a doctrine class for women, but we absolutely are in favor of women knowing what they think about doctrine.

00:36:16.640 doctrine right um and i would say that when we shifted this thinking uh to focusing on getting

00:36:24.820 women in the word what the tightest two things specifically tightest two things came out so much

00:36:31.720 more naturally when our focus was getting women in the word then you had women saying like well 0.66

00:36:37.960 i could throw if i would love to throw a party at my house to encourage people like you have people

00:36:42.580 trying to use their hospitality for a goal you had women encouraging one another about their lives

00:36:48.200 with babies because the goal is that you'll be in god's word so you have you know someone says

00:36:53.400 i'm struggling with reading every day because now i have two babies there'll be a huge comment 1.00

00:36:58.920 thread of women being like i listen first thing in the morning when i'm nursing the baby and this

00:37:03.680 is what i do and it was a ton of practical advice from people who also love god's word so i guess

00:37:11.620 The only thing I would say is to be very careful to not start making weird gender divisions that God doesn't make, because I do think we need to. 0.94

00:37:21.500 I do think that women need to understand theology, but I do also think that there's a real danger in women trying to become theology wonks, because that's not what we're called to.

00:37:31.940 We're called to translating the things that we've been taught into culture building, kingdom building, home building work. 0.99

00:37:40.500 And that should be our emphasis.

00:37:42.840 Yeah, I completely agree.

00:37:44.220 I think for me, the question was coming from a place of just thinking that not for a second doubting the need for women to know theology, discuss theology, be applying theology, talking about theology.

00:37:57.700 um i think for me it's just um i i just have i'd like to think it's a holy suspicion uh when

00:38:05.560 when when women gravitate towards you know and i'm sure we're thinking of some of the same women

00:38:10.940 in the evangelical public sphere but uh it's like you know this woman's like okay but what is what

00:38:16.740 is this conference even over what is she talking about like she's talking about theology proper

00:38:20.500 and it's like something like theology proper like because so agreeing with you because there isn't

00:38:27.800 some hard line distinction between men and women on this issue because there's one god who eternally

00:38:33.760 exists in three persons and we share one bible uh why do you have to be taught this subject by a

00:38:39.900 woman what you know what i mean like what what's the why why why is the lord's day the the male

00:38:46.160 pastor preaching the text on the lord's day talking about theology proper why do we need

00:38:51.560 something specific why does it have to come from a woman you see what i'm saying uh yep and i'll

00:38:59.860 two things one is i think your suspicion is accurate because a lot of the time that is not

00:39:06.180 a standalone event it's it's part of a fast break for the pulpit right like it's it's part it is

00:39:14.000 there's a trajectory happening so if there's like some sweet lady in your church who's like

00:39:19.100 you know what i need to read i you know i i need to brush up on what i believe about the trinity

00:39:23.900 so she's reading a book on the trinity there's zero threat to anything there because she's just

00:39:28.860 like i've realized there's something i don't understand about my faith and i want to flesh 0.96

00:39:33.380 that out right that's good and wholesome awesome right but when it's like women we have to rise up

00:39:39.260 and and teach one another the attributes of god right you're like well what are you doing like

00:39:45.200 what's the trajectory of this and why are you doing that i will i you would enjoy this i was

00:39:50.200 at a conference sometime where in the q a and a women's thing they uh asked what book has most

00:39:59.420 influenced you for the glory of god other than the bible and uh this was a very this was would

00:40:08.760 have been a group where it was way cooler for it to have been a theology book right so i think one

00:40:15.120 of the answers was uh you know the attributes of god aw being the attributes of god and you know

00:40:21.200 it was that kind of like this is the intellectual knowledge of god and and knowing that it would

00:40:28.200 provoke something and still doing it anyways because i thought it would be funny as i said

00:40:32.700 it is i did say that's like saying what was your best conversation ever like there have been a

00:40:38.740 lot of books that have influenced me i don't want to you know but i said i would say most recently

00:40:44.660 the tartine bread cookbook and the amount of shock and awe that you would say something like that

00:40:52.500 when talking about the glory of god right and this is from a very conservative group that's very all

00:40:57.780 about resisting the influence of beth moore and resisting like it's all about not be not letting

00:41:05.220 women into the pulpit but the fact that i would say that a cookbook had been influential in my

00:41:11.440 life was like what do you think like it so clearly came off as horrifically flippant and and reckless

00:41:19.980 it was funny i i watched uh well i listened to that moment and i i know which conference

00:41:25.160 you're referencing um well i either listened to it i can't remember or i listened to

00:41:30.400 you talk about it on some some kind of podcast format but i i heard this story and i thought it

00:41:36.940 was i thought it was really funny also so that's something i i appreciate about you your willingness

00:41:42.580 you take after your dad your willingness to just hey i think i'm gonna ruffle a couple feathers

00:41:47.240 here so um like half the crowd was like clearly delighted yeah this is interesting and the other

00:41:54.440 have was like, I mean, really scowling up. Such a funny moment. Yeah, I bet. Okay, so I got one

00:42:02.500 more big question that I want to take just a moment to hear your thoughts on. I know that

00:42:09.840 my wife in particular and other women in our church have asked, you know, this question to

00:42:16.540 me saying like, hey, you're going to interview Rachel, ask her this question. So they wanted

00:42:21.540 to hear your thoughts because i think on um what have you your podcast with your sister becca

00:42:26.460 um there was an episode or two where from time to time you guys just discuss the you know the

00:42:33.140 concept of women confessing their sins to one another so this is the question what are your

00:42:39.080 thoughts on accountability groups for women and should women regularly confess their sins to other

00:42:45.680 women if not what what's the proper context how should that be done okay i just think women need

00:42:54.680 to get a lot more protestant up in there and realize that we actually have jesus like you

00:43:01.420 don't need to get in a little cubby i mean we're not catholic you don't need to get somewhere and

00:43:06.560 confess your sins to a priest and have him pass it on you need you confess your sins to christ

00:43:12.620 Now, if there's something that you need accountability on because you actually feel like this is an area where I'm really keep on failing and I need help, that is different.

00:43:23.820 I'm not trying to say you don't ever need counsel or encouragement or whatever from other people.

00:43:29.640 But I would say your first response should be to look for that accountability from your husband, which women frequently do not do because frequently these things are about their husbands. 0.66

00:43:40.460 It's it's frequently some it's frequently a already letting someone else into the marriage in a way that they should not be. 0.65

00:43:48.920 Right. And and to confess to your husband, something is a lot more like jumping off the high dive.

00:43:54.960 It's someone who will be there to see if you're like I've used this example before. 1.00

00:44:00.760 But when I realized I think women can lie about all kinds of things. 1.00

00:44:04.520 And when I had four really little kids, I said a lot of the time I was overwhelmed. 1.00

00:44:09.380 You know, I had twin infants and two toddlers. And I would be like, I'm just really overwhelmed. You know, like I'm overwhelmed. And at some point, I think I just it just the Lord, you know, the Holy Spirit, he's kind, he shows us things. I just thought that nobody's going to challenge me on this. You know, like if I say I'm overwhelmed, who has the nerve to tell me, knock it off, suck it up, be it, you know, I mean, like nobody.

00:44:34.220 uh luke was of course very encouraging but he even he wasn't going to argue with me that you're not

00:44:40.060 overwhelmed right there and so i actually needed to confess to him to say you know what i'm not

00:44:46.180 going to say that anymore this is what god has given me to do this is my normal workload now

00:44:51.080 like this is normal and i'm not going to say that anymore well telling him that man i was actually

00:44:57.520 burning my bridge all the way. Like I, I actually removed a, I like, or it's sort of like if a

00:45:05.560 woman is lying about having a headache, when what the real issue is, is that she doesn't feel like 0.98

00:45:09.980 doing her work. Well, nobody can hold you accountable on that because they can't actually 1.00

00:45:14.400 know. Right. But, but if you go tell your husband, forgive me for lying about having a headache,

00:45:19.920 because I just didn't want to deal with bedtime. Well, you've really burned a bridge there. Like

00:45:25.400 you're at that's actual account yeah you're right and my dad says all the time about this like

00:45:31.920 accountability groups for teen boys where they can all get together and tell each other that

00:45:36.160 they struggled with porn again he's like there's no accountability there try telling your mother

00:45:40.280 you know like go tell someone outside of this temptation set right what you're struggling with

00:45:45.960 and you will get a whole other level of accountability yeah you start you know and

00:45:51.520 I think that that's the thing is that we like the idea of accountability, but we're finding the

00:45:56.100 easiest possible places to get it that won't challenge us. So I would say start with your

00:46:02.700 husband. Don't think you confess your sins to your friends and do a quick little litmus test of

00:46:09.440 why do I want to tell this friend? What do I actually think I'm going to get out of this?

00:46:15.320 Because if you're telling a friend who is going to slap you upside the face for doing

00:46:21.360 that, you know, then, then, you know, you're actually looking for accountability.

00:46:25.340 You're actually looking for something.

00:46:27.900 But if you're wanting to tell a friend who will be like, oh my word, I totally did the

00:46:31.300 same thing this week.

00:46:32.600 I, yes, I totally understand.

00:46:34.460 And I'll pray for you too, but with zero actual challenge in that relationship.

00:46:40.360 So that would be how I would say it is a, you know, a litmus test.

00:46:44.440 I think you want friends who are like, I would call them running partners in the sense that they are also pursuing Christ.

00:46:51.760 They are also running after Christ and that they have as little tolerance for your sin as they do for their own.

00:46:57.880 That's that's what we want in friendship.

00:47:01.040 So if you reach out to someone like that with a problem, you're like, here it is.

00:47:07.660 You know, and I recently just I recently just heard from a woman who was telling me she's in her group of four accountability partners, what they're talking about.

00:47:18.960 I mean, I assume they talk about other things.

00:47:21.340 I don't know.

00:47:21.860 But the but the thing that she was contacting me about what they're talking about is their own grief and the way they feel about their husband's struggles with porn.

00:47:31.340 Right. Right.

00:47:32.840 So I'm like, that's a hot mess.

00:47:34.720 everyone like this is this is a real problem but you're not doing anything to make it better by

00:47:40.440 calling up all your girlfriends right you know like let me call and disrespect my husband to

00:47:45.900 all of you so that you although i mean it's it's a horrible tangle and in those cases i would say

00:47:50.820 just cut line and get out of that yeah yeah that's yeah that's really helpful i completely agree

00:47:56.240 if i could so i completely agree with that super helpful thank you if i could it's not even a

00:48:01.040 pushback it's just an addition i think the one thing that i would add is so you're saying that

00:48:04.500 litmus test. Like let's, you know, there's a couple of things to, to take into account when

00:48:08.320 I'm, when I'm contemplating whether or not I should confess something and which person, you

00:48:13.020 know, who I should confess this to. And, and you spoke of, of that in, in the vein of, um,

00:48:19.020 accountability. Is this person going to call me out? Is this person, um, if it's really easy to

00:48:24.540 confess to this person, it's probably not a person that I need to confess it to because

00:48:28.960 confession hurts. It's hard. And, and like you said, you're burning, you're burning bridges.

00:48:34.480 You're, you're, you're giving up. You're giving, you're, you're, you're calling someone to hold

00:48:38.240 you accountable. The only thing I wanted to add to that is just, so when, when we're doing that

00:48:42.180 litmus test, trying to discern who's the right person to confess to, and we're taking into

00:48:46.400 account who will hold me accountable. I think also just another, another litmus test, I just

00:48:51.480 think of Bonhoeffer and, and saying that one of the reasons why, you know, we confess our sins

00:48:56.140 one to another, that we might pray for one another, that we might be healed, is because

00:48:59.860 at the end of the day, you started out by saying we confess to Christ, we're Protestant

00:49:03.480 and hearty yes and amen.

00:49:05.660 But I've noticed that my reluctance or my complete negligence to confess to my fellow

00:49:13.540 men sometimes is representative, often is representative of the fact that I'm not even

00:49:18.860 really confessing it to Christ.

00:49:20.840 Meaning that if I'm not comfortable to confess this to anyone.

00:49:25.260 So there's a lot of debate to be had for which men, which women to confess to.

00:49:30.220 But if I'm not willing to confess this to anyone as far as a fellow man, am I really confessing it to Christ?

00:49:36.080 And so I think sometimes the Protestant goes too far saying, well, I'm confessing to Christ.

00:49:40.500 But my question would be, but if you're not confessing to anyone horizontally, you might internally not truly be even confessing it to Christ.

00:49:49.760 Does that make sense?

00:49:50.460 Yeah, it does make sense. But I would, I guess I would bring up something that I think is interesting here. If you're confessing it to Christ, if you know it's a sin, you've confessed it to Christ, then confessing it to other people is actually a testimony to Christ.

00:50:06.820 yes right like you're you're like i have got this has been put right with christ and yeah you're not

00:50:13.440 trying to keep a super secret like you're not a sinner or you don't have problems right uh but

00:50:18.620 but that's i think that what we're supposed to do with one another is that free and easy

00:50:25.320 acknowledgement of our own sinner's relationship to a savior right like it is the fact that yes

00:50:31.520 I am failing here, and I am confessing it, and I'm getting it right, and Christ is faithful, and this is whatever.

00:50:39.080 But I think that many people are trying to use, like, they're trying to use their friends as a way of dealing with the sin without ever, like, there's some kind of catharsis that you said it out loud that you did this, and you're using that as a stand-in for actual confession.

00:50:54.060 I completely agree.

00:50:55.380 It's funny.

00:50:55.860 It's like, on one hand, there's like two things that, you know, you hold in tension.

00:50:59.260 On one hand, there's a tendency, a leaning towards, I'd rather confess to Christ than tell any person because he's far more merciful than people tend to be.

00:51:14.700 On the other hand, there's like, I'd rather confess this to my friends than Christ because Christ is, so he's on one, there's the appeal because he's merciful.

00:51:25.780 There's the fear because he's also far more holy.

00:51:29.260 and you know and so there's this sense of like i don't mind confessing this to this group of

00:51:33.600 friends because they're not holy at all you know what i mean because they won't care jesus is one

00:51:39.660 who already knows about it he's the one who already knows and so the reality is telling him

00:51:45.620 is is a commitment to not it's a commitment to breaking ties with the sin right like and

00:51:52.440 and otherwise it's like and that's the thing when i was talking about burning bridges that's the

00:51:58.540 heart of it right like true confession to christ is turning your back on your sin you're saying

00:52:03.720 i'm i i'm changing direction here and that's what i think is just really the key about whether or

00:52:11.540 not you should talk to other friends about it is are you actually turning your back on the sin

00:52:15.920 no you're absolutely right when we confess to the omniscient god we're not informing him what

00:52:20.880 we're really doing is who are we surprising right exactly so we're not we're not informing him like

00:52:25.100 we do with our fellow man but what we're really doing is it's simply it's agreeing with him i

00:52:29.920 agree with you father and what you say about this that you call it sin you call it vile and i'm

00:52:35.480 agreeing with you and i am committing to um to actually changing to repenting um okay so thank

00:52:42.820 you so much rachel i want to give you a moment just to um to tell people how they can follow

00:52:46.900 you how they can keep up with what you're doing tell us about the bible reading challenges i told

00:52:51.200 you before we started recording, this episode probably won't air until October. But if you

00:52:56.160 could tell people a little bit about how to follow you, how to keep up with you, if you want to plug

00:53:00.280 a book, tell them about the Bible reading challenge, go ahead and do that right now.

00:53:03.880 Sure. You can find me on Instagram as Rachel Jacobic. I'm on Facebook also, but the Bible

00:53:10.860 reading challenge, it's where it's at, where you do, it's year round. In the summer, we do the

00:53:15.940 New Testament and in the academic year, we do the whole Bible. So if you stick with us any day that

00:53:22.480 you jump in, then that day a year later, you will have read the New Testament twice, Old Testament

00:53:27.220 once, and a bunch of epistles and things five or six times. So jump in by all means, and you can

00:53:35.700 find all the details at totheword.com. Great. Well, thanks again so much, Rachel. And for our

00:53:41.420 Listeners, if you have not yet become a responder, one of our club members, take this opportunity to go ahead and do that because we're going to ask Rachel a couple bonus questions and that'll be exclusive content for our responders.

00:53:57.820 And so if you want to check out the bonus questions and just to whet your appetite, listeners, I'm going to go ahead and say those now.

00:54:04.740 So the first question is, what are some of the distinctions, Rachel, between how you would raise your sons versus how you would raise your daughters? 0.71

00:54:12.660 And the second one is, why should Christian women care about beauty and aesthetics, specifically in the realm of their home? 0.75

00:54:20.180 And how would you respond to a Christian woman who would say that this is shallow? 0.92

00:54:26.560 So those are our bonus questions. 0.99

00:54:28.100 I'm going to go ahead and come back with Rachel, and we're going to record those.

00:54:32.180 And we encourage you, if you haven't become a responder with Right Response Ministries,

00:54:36.460 take this opportunity and go ahead and do that.

00:54:38.940 Thanks again, Rachel, so much for coming on the show today.

00:54:42.200 We appreciate it.

00:54:43.760 Thanks for having me.

00:54:44.980 Thanks for tuning in to Right Response Ministries.

00:54:47.260 As a reminder, all of our resources should only be used as a supplement and not a substitute

00:54:51.700 for the local church.

00:54:52.980 Be sure to check out our website, rightresponseministries.com or download our free app.

00:54:57.520 There you can find out how to join our team by supporting us monthly as a responder.

00:55:02.700 As a responder, you will receive a Soli Deo Gloria t-shirt and a physical copy of Pastor Joel's book, Am I Truly Saved?

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00:55:15.600 as well as access to free digital copies of all current and future books in the store.

00:55:20.420 Thank you for your generous support.

00:55:27.520 You

The NXR Podcast - January 07, 2021

THEOLOGY APPLIED - How Women's Ministry Went Wrong

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