The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Origins Of The Nephilim ｜ 3 Primary Views ｜ Tim Chaffey

00:00:00.000 Who are the Nephilim, where do they come from, and how do they survive or return after the flood?

00:00:06.220 In this episode of Theology Applied, I'm welcome to the show, Dr. Tim Chafee, to discuss the three

00:00:12.260 most popular views in regards to the origins of the Nephilim. You're not going to want to miss

00:00:17.500 this episode. Applying God's Word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.

00:00:24.360 in this episode i'm very privileged to welcome to the show for the first time

00:00:32.740 tim chafee tim chafee thanks for coming on hey joel thanks for having me it's great to be with

00:00:38.400 you absolutely so this is what we're going to be discussing we're actually going to do something

00:00:41.860 a little bit unusual we've done it well at this point we've done it once before so i had joshua

00:00:46.860 shooping we did a three-part series on eastern orthodoxy and it was really helpful to just

00:00:51.560 there are some topics that just need a little bit more time and so we're going to actually make this

00:00:55.560 a multiple part series and we're going to be discussing your book it's called fallen the sons

00:01:01.200 of god and the nephilim and so i'm excited to get into this but first can you just introduce

00:01:06.900 yourselves who do you work for what do you do and and what made you want to write a book about

00:01:12.040 giants and nephilim and watchers and fallen angels and all that stuff sure uh yeah so some

00:01:18.720 people may recognize me i work as the content manager for the ark encounter in the creation

00:01:22.820 museum so the attractions division of answers in genesis and i guess might as well just lead with

00:01:28.340 that as a ministry aig does not take an official position on a lot of the things we're going to be

00:01:33.480 talking about so the views that people are going to be hearing are my own and don't necessarily

00:01:38.240 represent those of aig um you know we have people there who will disagree but we can still work

00:01:44.560 together and uh you know for the the cause that we're called to to do uh at that ministry and uh

00:01:51.780 and get along just fine uh so so that's fine i just want people to know that i'm not i'm not

00:01:57.860 saying that the ark encounter teaches what tim is saying right now i hear you loud and clear ken

00:02:03.100 ham absolutely believes everything we're about to talk about that's what so much though that

00:02:09.480 his nickname for me no joke on this part is nephletim that's hilarious that's funny okay

00:02:15.700 i'm part of it i'm six foot eight six foot nine and so i've been called nephilim more times than

00:02:22.380 i could count um and yet people don't even understand that they're using a plural term

00:02:27.740 so they're called in a sense they're calling me giants rather than just giant uh but um so that

00:02:33.300 actually is one of the things that piqued my interest in this topic the number of times that

00:02:36.620 people had called me something like that and um you know when you see the word giants in the bible

00:02:42.760 what is going on what is it just tall people like you see in the nba because that's how i hear a lot

00:02:47.800 of people explain it but then when you are reading scripture it's like this seems something

00:02:51.900 it's very very different than what we're experiencing today and um so about 12 13 years

00:03:00.020 ago when i was working on my thn i had to to do a thesis and i thought well surely there's some

00:03:05.100 good scholarly material on this topic and I had trouble finding some and I thought you know what

00:03:10.120 this might be a really good topic to do as a thesis there were there were a lot of you know

00:03:15.520 YouTube was still sort of in its infancy so there weren't as many videos about this topic like there

00:03:20.480 are now but there are a lot of websites and blogs that had a maybe they had what I would consider

00:03:27.260 to be the right view but they would get into all sorts of fantastic and speculative things and I

00:03:33.500 thought no we we need to have a very serious bible study on this topic and so that's what i set out

00:03:39.860 to do and i finished my thesis that was back in 2011 and ever since then for the next eight years

00:03:47.120 or so i was working on this project in between all the other stuff that we were doing you know

00:03:52.620 during that time at work we were building the ark encounter and so i was a little bit busy

00:03:56.680 so there i didn't have a lot of free time to be working on this project but i knew there was so

00:04:02.060 much more that i couldn't get into in my thesis and uh i wanted to make it lay level i wanted it

00:04:06.880 to be something that would be um you know for the average person to be able to grasp uh started off

00:04:12.020 pretty easy but eventually it does have to get pretty deep um and so it took me about eight

00:04:18.080 years from that point to uh churn out this book that's almost 500 pages and i don't think i ever

00:04:23.980 i'll write on that thick anymore that's a lot of writing um but it was uh fascinating to explore

00:04:32.260 that i wondered when i first set out to do my thesis how can i do you know 150 pages roughly on

00:04:39.580 four verses of the bible or five verses genesis 6 1 through 4 and then numbers 13 33 and then i

00:04:46.760 realized there's a lot more to it than just that and i thought how can i keep it to 150 pages

00:04:52.880 right yeah so we can real quick and we'll go ahead and get into it for the listeners so we

00:04:59.800 want to do three different views of the origins of the nephilim but real quick before we do that

00:05:07.040 where can people get the book if they if they want to purchase a copy yeah so it'll be available on

00:05:12.380 amazon it's also on my own website which is uh i have a ministry on the side called risen ministries

00:05:18.380 So the website is just risenmin.com, short for ministry, so risenmin.com, and it'll be available there as well.

00:05:26.820 Great. Okay, so let's get into it, you know, because people disagree over this, Christians disagree over this.

00:05:32.800 And from what I found, you know, reading your book, and I was already aware of this from some of my own reading,

00:05:37.440 But the view that you hold to, and I hold to it as well, the fallen angel view, is a view that has not been very popular, at least for the past several centuries of church history.

00:05:52.860 It seems like it was maybe the original view, but fairly early on, within the first few hundred years, some other views came into play.

00:06:01.140 So three main views of the origins of the Nephilim.

00:06:04.520 What are those?

00:06:05.340 yeah so the this passage goes back to genesis 6 beginning at verse 1 when it talks about how so

00:06:12.180 right after you have the uh the descendants of adam through seth and then in chapter 4 you have

00:06:17.700 the descendants of adam through cain uh those that's what sets this was right before this then

00:06:22.400 it you get into really the flood narrative uh beginning with noah at the end of chapter 5

00:06:27.460 and then in genesis 6 it says the that it came about when men began to multiply in the face of

00:06:33.040 the earth and daughters were born to them that the sons of god saw the daughters of men that

00:06:36.660 they were beautiful and they took wives from whomever they chose and then you skip down to

00:06:41.940 verse four and it talks about the nephilim were on the earth in those days and so you have this

00:06:46.180 passage just talking about the sons of god marrying the daughters of men and having children with

00:06:51.220 them it talks about the nephilim and and people have wondered for years what is going on here so

00:06:56.680 that the three primary views if you're trying to identify who the sons of god are because that'll

00:07:02.220 help you understand who the Nephilim are. One view, the one that has been the dominant view

00:07:08.040 throughout church history from about the time of Augustine, so around 400 AD, up until about 1900,

00:07:15.080 it was the dominant view. It's called the Sethite view. So those two chapters I just mentioned,

00:07:21.080 Genesis 4 mentioning the line of Cain, Genesis 5 mentioning the line of Seth. The people who hold

00:07:26.360 that view will say, well, the line of Seth was the godly line from Adam to Noah, and then this line

00:07:31.340 of cain as a rebellious line so what you had is men from the line of of seth being godly so they're

00:07:38.740 the sons of god marrying the daughters of men these ungodly and so that's the sethite view

00:07:44.500 the another view that came up actually was developed before the sethite view at the end

00:07:49.900 of the first century early second century among uh rabbis and then not until about the the third

00:07:56.380 century in the church was uh something called the uh the i call it the royalty view or the

00:08:02.700 uh some people would look at it as like the um divine judges you know the attila the hun view

00:08:10.260 the attila the hun view right yeah yes people would be ruler who think that they're divine

00:08:16.720 or judges who think they're divine and so their their sons who would be you know princes or

00:08:21.260 something like that could be called sons of god sons of the deity in a sense and so that was and

00:08:28.440 then their sin was it says that they took wives from whoever they chose so they were polygamist

00:08:34.640 marriages they were bringing in women into their harem and so that was the sin that was going on

00:08:39.300 there the earliest view as far as we know it dates back to the intertestamental period there are

00:08:46.200 numerous um jewish writings at this time that talk about this and i think you can find even

00:08:52.120 earlier sources in in other places that um refer to uh angelic beings who have who were the sons

00:08:59.440 of god uh the the hebrew there benay ha elohim they were um they they came down married women

00:09:06.720 had uh children with them and those offspring were the nephilim uh so the word nephilim just

00:09:11.860 means giants uh there are a lot of websites videos out there that'll tell you it means

00:09:17.000 fallen ones it doesn't um it's a you won't find that in any of the lexicons you won't find in

00:09:23.640 academic commentaries and the reason for that is because it just simply doesn't um it doesn't mean

00:09:29.100 that so um those are the three views and then for about 1900 years people have been debating and

00:09:38.020 disagreeing and hopefully doing it in a cordial way and um a civil way understanding that this

00:09:43.760 does not it's not self-ific so we don't have to um condemn anybody who disagrees they're allowed

00:09:50.780 to be wrong that's what i say all the time there you go there you go so let's uh so we want to get

00:09:55.400 into the fallen angel view for our purposes but before we do let's um let's have you poke a few

00:10:01.200 holes in the other two views especially the sethite view because that's probably the most popular that

00:10:06.380 i encounter with good brothers in christ guys who we would agree on um a ton of not not just

00:10:12.300 primary doctrine but a ton of other secondary doctrines we would be in the same camp same

00:10:16.720 theological tribe 98 but this would be one of the things that we would differ in and again like you

00:10:22.960 said it's not something to divide over but uh this seems to be kind of um i don't know i maybe

00:10:28.720 sometimes i feel like people just want to be sophisticated and fallen angels just seems too

00:10:33.260 fanatical, you know, and like, so, oh, the Sethite view, I'm very, you know, so, you know, but

00:10:37.740 anyways, you made a good case. You know, I haven't finished the book yet, but I did read some of your

00:10:42.980 work on the Sethite view that has, you know, some backing, but you poke some good holes in that. So

00:10:48.780 could you show us why, maybe twofold, why is the Sethite view compelling? Where's the biblical

00:10:54.520 merit? But then where does it potentially fall short? Yeah, so I have a whole chapter dealing

00:11:00.740 with the the set that view here are the the arguments used in in favor of it and here are

00:11:05.760 some of the the problems with it so let's start with the arguments for uh immediately before

00:11:11.240 genesis chapter six you have this discussion of the line of seth and the line of cain so

00:11:17.200 contextually you can make the argument that's what was just talked about um but there are

00:11:23.220 there are some that's about it as far as the arguments for other than

00:11:27.560 No, that's not quite true. There are other passages later in the New Testament where

00:11:33.360 humans, believers are called sons of God. But one thing that people don't, if you pay very

00:11:41.600 close attention, nearly every single case, it's future. It's something that we will become or

00:11:47.380 that will be revealed. We're positionally there, but it has not been fully realized yet.

00:11:54.520 The creation itself groans with eager expectations for the sons of God to be revealed.

00:12:00.000 So you mentioned that, and I noticed in the book what you didn't mention,

00:12:04.400 and I'm curious your thoughts on this.

00:12:05.660 I can't remember.

00:12:06.320 It might be Clement of Alexander.

00:12:07.700 Was he a Sethite guy?

00:12:09.260 One of the earliest?

00:12:10.140 I'm trying to think of one of the earliest Sethite guys.

00:12:12.260 Oh, I would have to go back and look at the chart at the end. 0.70

00:12:14.460 I've got...

00:12:15.360 Yeah, no worries.

00:12:17.100 But I think it was, if I'm right, it was Clement of Alexander,

00:12:20.100 And it was his view that the reason why sons of God, the Sethite view, the sons of God were the line of Seth, was not so much because, you know, in the New Testament, believers are called sons of God, but because of the genealogy that I believe is the genealogy you already referenced in Genesis 4, that it goes through this line.

00:12:44.040 or no it might be another one it might be in genesis right before babel um or uh but it goes

00:12:49.060 you know so and so begot so and so begot and it goes all the way up to adam right so it says you

00:12:54.560 know seth son of adam and then it says adam son of god and uh and so i've heard some guys within

00:13:00.160 the seth eye that's nice yeah okay then that's what that's what i'm thinking okay thank you

00:13:03.980 so so i i think it might i could be wrong about it being clement but um so he's using luke so i

00:13:09.680 was wrong about that but using luke and then saying all right so here are the sons of god

00:13:13.720 and you have the sons of men you know cain goes and builds you know the city of man and then you

00:13:19.140 have um you have adam who is the son of god and this is adam's good and godly line through his

00:13:25.220 his other son seth and so that that's the biggest argument i've heard of sons of god

00:13:29.800 but that's that's it but that seems to pale in comparison to yeah so let's let's take it apart

00:13:36.580 then let's show why it doesn't work um so clement i just looked real quickly clement was a fallen

00:13:40.700 angel guy oh okay um yep the sethite view didn't come along until a couple hundred years after

00:13:45.000 maybe i'm just thinking of augustine that could be yeah augustine clearly held the sethite view and

00:13:50.760 pretty much once he promoted it that's what it that was the dominant view in church history up

00:13:56.240 until about 100 years ago augustine does have that effect he does yeah i burned out on augustine

00:14:03.400 during my doctoral program i had a whole class just oh 5 000 pages of reading and 50 pages of

00:14:09.180 writing that was that's too much august at least for me some people really like him and i'm yeah

00:14:15.340 he was smart i'll say that but um so the default the the sethite view some problems um one you're

00:14:23.680 forced to change the meaning of the of the word man multiple times in that passage sense of six

00:14:29.680 one through four so when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born to

00:14:33.860 them okay clearly that's mankind in general in verse one and then in verse two it says that the

00:14:39.320 sons of god saw the daughters of men suddenly it doesn't refer to the daughters of men that were

00:14:43.520 just talked about in verse one it only refers to one line just cain well what about the other lines

00:14:48.420 from adam adam and eve had other sons and daughters genesis 5 4 says so why are we why are we limiting

00:14:53.660 it to just two lines and why would those marriages you know believer marrying unbeliever why would it

00:15:00.800 produce the nephilim giant offspring when believer and unbeliever don't do that today

00:15:05.940 and have not historically as far as we know why would these men in the line of set that they're

00:15:14.200 godly which the bible never said they were other than enoch who walks with god and noah who walks

00:15:19.380 with god noah's father lamech you can probably uh make the case you know he's longing for rest

00:15:26.200 from the curse that the front of the ground that god had cursed um so there's an acknowledgement

00:15:31.580 there so there's an assumption right under the top that all of these guys are godly there's an

00:15:35.640 assumption right under the top that all the people on cain's line are ungodly when it the text doesn't

00:15:39.900 tell us that clearly cain was and clearly well cain or not lamech tubal cain's father was he's

00:15:46.120 a polygamist and a murderer um but the the text doesn't tell us those things about those individuals

00:15:52.260 um one another problem with that is the only line between those two the set the line of seth and the

00:16:00.540 line of cain the only one that mentions daughters is seth's line over and over every generation

00:16:04.780 sons and daughters cain's line never mentions daughters it only mentions that son so why would

00:16:10.220 the daughters of men be from the line that never mentioned daughters um and how do you get the

00:16:16.000 nephilim on the earth again after the flood if this um if cain's line is gone wiped out in the

00:16:22.680 flood and suddenly they're back again the sethite view can't account for any of those details and

00:16:28.520 so i mentioned how they have to change the meaning of the word men um verse one it's it's universal

00:16:34.140 all men verse two it's just men in the line of cain verse three where god said my spirit will

00:16:39.580 not strive with man forever he is indeed flesh his days shall be 100 years it's back to all of

00:16:44.620 men and then verse 4 when this son of god saw the daughters of men oh it's back to just this one

00:16:48.740 line and verse 5 it's back to all so there's no hermeneutical warrant for doing that what i found

00:16:55.360 is the the strongest argument for the sethite view or the most popular argument is usually not

00:17:02.340 a positive argument for the sethite view it's more of a an anti-fallen angel view we don't like the

00:17:09.040 the idea that angels came in out of this or we don't think that they can do this because maybe

00:17:14.640 jesus said they can't or whatever reason they give therefore the alternative must be the sati

00:17:19.680 view and so it's not so much a positive case for their view it's a negative case against one of the

00:17:25.600 others but they seem unaware that there are other views as well that are not the fallen angel view

00:17:30.040 such as the royalty view so a an argument against the fallen angel view is not a argument for

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00:19:17.080 all right so then let's let's talk about the royalty view now uh what what are the problem

00:19:22.460 problems with that yeah so that's the one that says that the these rulers judges kings thought

00:19:29.420 they were divine as some ancient near eastern kings viewed themselves you know think of pharaoh

00:19:34.920 supposed to supposedly the the son of a god and some other ancient near eastern figures were like

00:19:41.440 that um so their sons would be sons of that god in a sense but um the whole argument that they

00:19:51.120 took wives and they're bringing them into their harems that sounds bad in english doesn't it

00:19:55.920 okay they they took wives from whoever they chose well until you realize the rest of genesis

00:20:02.140 abraham took keturah as wife after sarah died um isaac took rebecca well did he force her into a

00:20:10.320 marriage or was did she have the choice when abraham's servant went you know to laban and um

00:20:16.680 she went willingly yeah so it it was just the hebrew idiom for marriage it's it's not saying

00:20:23.300 that they were forced into this at all they were willing participants uh so the the whole basis

00:20:28.580 for that view falls apart um it's very questionable as to whether or not there

00:20:35.480 really were that many um rulers within that area that ever viewed themselves that way it's kind of

00:20:43.200 common among liberal scholars they they repeat that over and over again and yet a lot of the

00:20:49.500 arguments they use for it don't the kings don't actually believe that and so there's there's not

00:20:55.640 much basis for it but this view is gaining popularity among scholars today so the set that

00:21:01.260 view seems more popular among lay people whereas this one seems to be growing in popularity among

00:21:07.240 scholars but the earliest mention of this view goes back to about 90 a.d uh late first century

00:21:14.980 after um after the temple was destroyed you had the rabbis kind of um in a sense i'm gonna say

00:21:23.540 that i hope i can say this in a way that doesn't seem derogatory but kind of reinvent the jewish

00:21:27.240 faith in a sense that the temple is no longer there the sacrificial system's out there so

00:21:31.400 how how does judaism work now that we don't have this and there's some serious reinventing yeah

00:21:37.940 yeah i appreciate you not trying to be derogatory but um as a covenant theology guy i'm i'm not a

00:21:44.800 big fan of zionism so uh you will not offend me probably not my audience but go ahead i might

00:21:50.580 offend myself yeah there you go yeah try not to offend yourself but you're good on this side

00:21:55.160 but um so at that time actually you had a few different rabbis who who promoted the uh royalty

00:22:04.240 view or this this divine judge's view and um threatened excommunication for anybody who

00:22:10.980 held the fallen angel view even though that had been the dominant view in a judaism up until that

00:22:16.440 time and you can see that in uh so many of the intertestamental period writings all about this

00:22:21.220 topic and so that's the first time that you had something other than the fallen angel view being

00:22:27.040 promoted as far as we know i mean among any of the writings that are still i came into play a few

00:22:33.000 hundred years before the sethite view sounds like okay okay and and with that view again it's just

00:22:38.600 it's the idea of you've got kings and then these kings you know purporting to be sons of god

00:22:43.160 and they're taking and it's a forceful taking like this you know uh it's it's polygamous and it's

00:22:48.980 taking women against their will and and having a massive harem and that's why i said earlier you

00:22:54.360 know tongue-in-cheek but like the attila the hun theory you know but like that you know still to

00:22:59.980 this day from what i've heard a lot of people can trace their lineage um to attila the hun because

00:23:05.200 he had a ton of children um and and but there was there was a an intent behind that it wasn't

00:23:12.040 only perversion it certainly stemmed from that it was sinful but um but it was it was about

00:23:17.180 lineage. It was about line. It was about, you know, I am this amazing, renowned, you know,

00:23:22.940 God, you know, or, or son of a God, you know, I kind of this, this deity kind of, you know,

00:23:27.740 demigod of a, of a man. And I want, you know, my line to continue forever. And so I'm going to have,

00:23:34.920 you know, 10,000 kids or whatever. But that, that's the view, right? The royalty view is the

00:23:40.720 idea is it's not just kings are the sons of god and they had a few offspring but that they were

00:23:47.500 trying to they were trying to continue forever their their line by having hundreds each individual

00:23:55.360 king dozens or hundreds of children for one king um through multiple wives right that they took by

00:24:02.400 force that's the view uh presumably yes okay yeah that you are you're setting yourself up as

00:24:09.360 the ultimate ruler and therefore you have the right to take these women and have as many as

00:24:16.240 you want and so it's perverting the created order it's you know that's um one man one woman for life

00:24:23.480 and um so that would be the great sin um obviously they're not saying that's the only sin before the

00:24:31.080 flood uh because the whole world is filled with violence and wickedness and uh but that would be

00:24:36.180 the the primary sin that kind of leads to the the triggering of the flood which is a little strange

00:24:41.980 in both cases because all those things have continued on after the flood without any sort

00:24:47.120 of massive judgment like that you've had unbeliever marrying believer you which um doesn't lead to

00:24:54.900 doesn't yield giants it doesn't lead to a worldwide flood which of course there's not going to be

00:24:59.120 another one god said there wouldn't but it doesn't lead to massive judgment like that and same thing

00:25:03.100 with these rulers who have harems it doesn't lead to that sort of so something there seems to have

00:25:09.860 been something else going on that was far more provocative and um that's yeah that's a really

00:25:16.740 good point because it's um you know you and i both like we're christians so so we believe that um

00:25:23.220 that there will be people who, who spend eternity apart from God in, under his white hot wrath and,

00:25:30.280 and just judgment forever. So like, we're, we're not saying, you know, our view as,

00:25:34.820 as just Bible believing Christians, that's just a biblical Christian basic view. We're not saying

00:25:40.120 that, um, that God would, you know, Hey God, that seems rash or that seems a little bit overboard

00:25:44.900 with a little bit of an overreaction. We're not saying that it would be wrong or unjust on God's

00:25:50.060 part to to flood the world and and to kill people because all have sinned and fallen short of the

00:25:55.440 glory of god um but the issue is just but this is unique this isn't something that happens every

00:26:02.120 other day um this is unique instance and if it's certainly you know people people have always been

00:26:07.960 depraved people apart from christ were totally depraved even with christ we still have the

00:26:12.940 sinful flesh and still resides within the members of our being and god is totally just god is

00:26:17.560 obligated to save no one. And he would be just to destroy everyone. But this particular thing,

00:26:22.840 that's what really got me thinking, because I always taught it, and you know this, and I know

00:26:28.100 that you and I, we'd have some differences and you're kind of, it sounds like you're undeclared

00:26:31.780 and that's fine. I'm not going to try to push you to take a side, but I, you know, we talked on the

00:26:35.940 phone that I'm a Calvinist. And so for me, you know, total depravity, that's a, that's a tenant,

00:26:40.040 you know? And so for me, I, you know, it's like when I preached the flood in my earlier pastoral

00:26:45.740 days, I would, you know, really land the plane on God would be totally just to flood the world

00:26:51.880 again right now, you know, or I'm, you know, and I'm kind of shocked he hasn't flooded the world

00:26:55.860 a thousand times, you know, because, you know, that typical Calvinist, you know, big on sin,

00:27:01.620 you know, slamming, you know, the pulpit. And, but now I think I still stand by that. God would

00:27:07.400 be objectively just, but it seems like it's more than God just punishing sin because God has,

00:27:14.680 He reserved a final and eternal punishment for sin.

00:27:18.640 It seems like there's something, like you said, something unique and provocative, not just polygamy, not just even forceful marriage or rape, and not just intermarriage between one group of people and another.

00:27:35.360 Because even that, it's funny, if the sons of God are the line of Seth, and it's like, all right, men, do your job and convert these daughters of Cain, you know what I mean?

00:27:43.540 like disciple your wife and why are they if they're godly why are they constantly marrying

00:27:48.900 ungodly women right exactly exactly yes occasionally that happens but occasionally

00:27:53.780 all of them to the point that right and and back to your point earlier we don't have a single 0.99

00:27:59.500 daughter mentioned in the line of cain i'm sure he had had daughters but um well one of them is

00:28:04.340 named but never used the word daughter so gotcha the sister of tubal king is not gotcha okay thank

00:28:09.280 you yeah but but the point is you know it's still it just logically wouldn't make sense if all the

00:28:14.100 male offspring of of seth are marrying all the you know the the daughters of you know then you

00:28:20.980 know what's happening to all of seth's daughters do they just not get married or or you know by

00:28:25.220 force i guess they have to marry you know all the sons okay so it just doesn't make my point is um

00:28:29.300 it seems like something provocative i like the way that you said that something sinister terrible

00:28:34.500 is happening that is has never really happened since or or maybe kind of but something you know

00:28:42.120 something very unique that god is not just punishing but it's a protection he's wiping

00:28:47.220 something dangerous off the map what would yeah can you so can you just talk about that a little

00:28:53.800 bit about what so what is it so now i think we're ready for the fallen angel view what what is it

00:28:58.900 that you think was actually going on yeah so the terminology that's used in that past is the sons

00:29:04.800 of god i mentioned before bnei elohim that's the hebrew it's used in a few other places you have

00:29:10.260 it in job one verse six where it says there came a day when the sons of god that's the term came

00:29:15.500 to present themselves before the lord and satan also came among them same thing in verse chapter

00:29:19.700 two verse one almost word for word uh it's when satan goes before for god and they're talking

00:29:24.600 about job and what can be done and then it's also used in job 38 7 uh when it talks about how the

00:29:30.280 morning stars sang together and the sons of god shouted for joy so it's used right there talking

00:29:35.120 about creation and it's before man so that term doesn't refer to mankind it's referring to some

00:29:42.500 sort of heavenly being in that passage um and they're they're paralleled in you know hebrew

00:29:48.400 poetry you know so much of it is based on parallelism with the morning stars so it's

00:29:53.060 angelic beings are both being described here. The other place it's found, other than Genesis 6.2

00:29:58.460 and 6.4, is in Deuteronomy 32.8. And there you have, in a lot of our English Bibles, they say

00:30:05.960 sons of Israel rather than sons of God. And you'll see a little note that says the Dead Sea Scrolls

00:30:12.580 and has sons of God, B'nai Elohim. The Septuagint, the Greek translation, always had angels of God

00:30:20.960 there or the or sons of god um and for some reason the masoretic has sons of israel but the context

00:30:27.880 doesn't make any sense for sons of israel it's talking about when god divided the nations at

00:30:31.700 babel israel didn't exist yet he says he divided them according to the number of the sons of god

00:30:36.780 not israel and so that passage uses uses that as well and there's very similar terminology in the

00:30:44.700 psalms talks about the b'nei elim sons of the mighty and it's referring to angelic beings i

00:30:49.920 think that's in uh chapter psalm 29 and the other one i think is 89 maybe 87 off the top of my head

00:30:56.180 i'd have to look at the book again um so all of that terminology in hebrew very clearly referring

00:31:02.240 to angelic beings now when you read the passage um what it's if you think about the context so

00:31:11.100 we're told about the the fall in genesis chapter 3 god promises that there's going to be the seed

00:31:18.540 of the woman who's going to crush the head of the serpent. And then from that point on, you see

00:31:24.580 corruption, you know, take hold of the world. And you see it presumably getting progressively

00:31:31.560 darker and darker until the time of the flood, when the thoughts of man's heart were only evil

00:31:35.400 continually, and God was grieved that he had made man. But something was going on at that point.

00:31:42.100 Genesis 6 tells us at the beginning that the sons of God saw the daughters of men. So

00:31:47.680 women in general heavenly beings and they took wives from whoever they chose 0.84

00:31:53.620 and they had children with them well verse four tells us who those children were it says the

00:31:59.600 nephilim were on the earth in those days and also afterward and and we'll get into this i think

00:32:04.680 probably our second session we want to deal with this more but the key word in that whole passage

00:32:10.740 if people understand this next word that sons of god or i'm sorry the nephilim were on the earth

00:32:14.900 those days and also afterward this next word is so key whenever the sons of god did this now most

00:32:21.700 english translations will say when the hebrew word there is asher and you can look at our hebrew

00:32:26.900 grammars they will tell you that that word in this construct that should be used or should be

00:32:33.140 translated as whenever so whenever the sons of god did this that's when the nephilim were on the earth

00:32:37.380 so the nephilim are the offspring is what that passage is telling us the other views will say

00:32:42.020 now maybe giants were already there when this happened it just because if it's just the word

00:32:46.520 when it could be that they're the offspring or maybe they're just already around and it's very

00:32:51.060 ambiguous you don't even know why it's mentioned but if it's translated properly and the word is

00:32:57.060 whenever now we understand exactly what that passage means when versus whenever makes a big

00:33:02.040 difference yeah yes it does um and so what's so something awful is going on there's a it seemed

00:33:10.860 to be a corruption of of humanity um and perhaps that's what the goal was i think there might be

00:33:17.640 another goal as well um at least maybe for the women um so for the rebellious angels their goal

00:33:26.160 maybe is to corrupt that line so that to cut off the messiah yeah yeah so the messiah can't be the

00:33:32.020 seat of the woman in a sense you're gonna be the seat of a of a rebellious angel because you're

00:33:36.040 saying they knew right they knew the promise that god had given you know wrapped up in the curses

00:33:40.160 that are dealing out and you know into the serpent that that you know put enmity between you know

00:33:44.980 your offspring and the woman and um her offspring and you and and uh he will you know strike your

00:33:49.860 you will strike his heel but he will crush your head and so you're saying that these these fallen

00:33:54.420 angels they were very clear on that they were very aware and so it might have been a ploy to try to

00:34:00.840 say like well we know that eventually there's going to be and you could even say with that i

00:34:05.420 feel that you could even say that maybe you know satan possessing the heart of cain to murder his

00:34:09.780 brother thinking well maybe abel is it maybe he's the seat you know maybe it's a first generation

00:34:14.540 kind of thing and so by possessing you know sin crouching at your door you know desires to have 0.98

00:34:19.100 you genesis 4 it's like a two birds one stone situation i can corrupt cain and kill abel you

00:34:24.480 know and then but then god is gracious and gives seth and oh we got to do something about seth's

00:34:28.960 line now and so yeah back to you yeah i think that's exactly right and and what would be now 1.00

00:34:35.780 i'm going to speculate a little bit more on this part as far as the the the women you know why 0.99

00:34:41.560 would they take part because the the wording there is not that they were forced into this they were

00:34:45.260 willing participants uh and you know a lot of people they react strongly to the whole idea they

00:34:51.760 think oh why would women marry demons or something that's how they think like these medieval toady

00:34:57.980 wordy horns you know forked tail all that kind of um think thor think um i think something more

00:35:06.660 like that um and so from because satan manifests as an angel of light and his ministers can do the

00:35:13.620 same thing so um they're not going to appear as these horrible awful things from so from just a

00:35:19.120 physical perspective that nobody's going to look at that and say that's gross um of course spiritually

00:35:24.440 speaking we would look at it and say that's that's awful that's uh that's abominable but um i think

00:35:30.280 there's something else that may be going on there um because man originally was created to live

00:35:37.080 forever and it's not until they eat the fruit that now they're going to die they're kicked out

00:35:42.440 of the garden so they can't eat from the tree of life and live forever um but what if you if so

00:35:50.040 consider a woman at that point what if she marries somebody who doesn't die and has offspring with

00:35:56.320 somebody who doesn't die what would the offspring be like could they maybe live forever and so

00:36:04.560 what's right in the middle of that passage about the sons of god in the nephilim verse 3 of genesis

00:36:09.140 6 the lord said my spirit will not strive with man or remain in man forever for he is indeed

00:36:14.640 flesh that his days shall be 120 years originally man's supposed to live forever but then they sin

00:36:20.560 then their days are cut to like the 900s nobody as far as we know breaks a thousand

00:36:25.120 um so god gives them a long time to live but look how wicked they became look at how sinful the

00:36:32.460 earth became and god said really you're going to try to cheat this okay 120 now and you see a steady

00:36:37.080 drop from Noah's time, 950, Shem 600, all the way down to Moses, who's 120. And since Moses,

00:36:45.600 nobody lives 120, as far as we know, except for Jehoiada, the priest, lived 130. 1.00

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00:39:02.960 Can I run something by you real quick on that, Tim? So I think that's a fine possibility. I've

00:39:09.920 leant towards the interpretation that when that was said, it was approximately 120 years. So not

00:39:18.820 just each individual man is not going to live 900 years anymore but eventually we're going to work

00:39:23.220 down to where the lifespan of a man each individual person is around 120 or less years but instead no

00:39:29.060 mankind in general you've got 120 years the clock is ticking until i flood the world uh so like kind

00:39:36.180 of like god like speaking about the nephilim um that like my spirit will not abide in man forever

00:39:41.860 these terrible things are taking place and so um i'm i'm going to wipe out um all these men um and

00:39:50.220 and i'm going to do it in approximately 120 years when noah finishes the ark project i'm sure you've

00:39:56.200 heard that view what are your thoughts on that yeah yeah and that's a a well-known view there

00:40:01.500 are a lot of people who hold that um i i don't it's hard to demonstrate that from the text that

00:40:07.740 that's really what's in view uh i think it's plausible it's certainly not um it's not i don't

00:40:13.160 think it's ruled out just by reading that verse certainly god could have made that pronouncement

00:40:17.180 120 years prior to the flood um but it never tells us who he spoke those words to so we don't know

00:40:24.780 that it was spoken to any man it could have been inter-trinitarian dialogue or we were talking

00:40:28.980 before the show maybe something within this divine council um you know the heavenly throne room if

00:40:34.180 you will um and he's just saying man's become so wicked i'm going to cut their days short they're

00:40:39.320 not living this long anymore um i guess you could hold out the possibility that it's both he happened

00:40:44.300 to do that 120 years before the flood and it also refers to the lifespan being reduced um but um i

00:40:52.060 don't think noah was building the ark for 120 years because in genesis 6 um beginning around 18

00:40:59.200 uh i think it is at verse 18 maybe 19 where god tells noah and he's telling him to build the ark

00:41:04.640 he says i'm going to make my covenant with you your wife your sons and your son's wives with

00:41:09.720 you so it sounds like the boys were already grown up and married when god said we'll start building

00:41:13.540 the ark um so i think i don't think that he starts building the ark at that point well but well that

00:41:20.300 my thought is that uh that that the the statement was made uh at 120 year mark and then noah is

00:41:28.160 commissioned with his grown sons to begin building, you know, young sons, but, but adults to begin

00:41:33.540 building the arc, you know, maybe 20, 30 years later in the arc is this 90, a hundred year

00:41:37.460 project, but, but it was spoken 20, 30 years. So anyways, that possibility, but back to your

00:41:43.340 point, I, cause I like this cause you're in your book, you're very technical. I mean, that's the

00:41:48.100 beauty of it is there's a lot of stuff that you can, you know, you can check out, you can listen

00:41:51.280 to this podcast, you can watch this video, you know, and, and I like, I like this stuff. I'm a

00:41:55.700 sucker for it. And it's fantastical. It's awesome. But a lot of it's fiction. And what you do is

00:42:02.020 really, I mean, you stick to the script, namely the scripture. But that said, if I can get you

00:42:08.740 from time to time to speculate, I probably will because I'm a sucker for it. So back to real

00:42:13.820 quick, your speculation about that maybe you're basically what you're saying is that maybe these 0.92

00:42:18.140 women, their incentive that it was a willing marriage with these fallen angels and their

00:42:21.740 incentive was that they they knew um that death was was in their future and thinking is is there 0.99

00:42:27.920 a way that we can somehow get man to live forever like almost like us like trying to transhumanism

00:42:34.080 or like uploading conscience to the cloud or cloning or so is it something like that yeah i

00:42:40.180 think so i mean not the same right not the technology angle but just the whole idea i mean

00:42:45.180 I like to talk about it this way. The thing humanity has desired more than anything else

00:42:53.080 throughout history, our greatest desire is to cheat death, to live forever. People have tried

00:42:59.320 and tried and tried, and then they can't do it because God's told us they're not going, well,

00:43:03.700 we are going to live forever. We know that, but not the way they're thinking. And what's really

00:43:08.700 interesting is the our greatest need is that we need forgiveness from our holy creator because

00:43:15.660 we've rebelled against him and we we deserve his judgment his wrath so our greatest desire

00:43:20.600 live forever our greatest need forgiveness what do you get in the crucifixion or resurrection of

00:43:24.180 jesus you get both you get our greatest need and our greatest desire and it's god knew knew all

00:43:33.120 about us isn't it um so yeah i think that's i again speculating i think that was probably the

00:43:39.980 thought process of some of the women maybe it was more of just a wow there's thor i'm not saying

00:43:45.680 actually thor i'm just saying think the movies you know chris had a good looking it's not a

00:43:49.880 he's not he didn't look like a demon right right a thor um but not a marvel version he's not a

00:43:55.880 right he's he's like he looks masculine and he actually has masculine views yeah and there's a

00:44:03.340 well even um what's the other guardian of the galaxy of peter quill who is a you know star lord

00:44:09.100 he's a he's a son of a god according to this yeah yeah you're right you're right um or from flip it

00:44:16.280 around um if you remember the movie bedazzled with elizabeth hurley playing the role of the devil

00:44:21.060 you know tempting brendan fraser's character well yeah of course if that's going to happen

00:44:25.620 the devil would appear as beautiful very attractive beautiful yeah yeah so uh that if

00:44:32.040 so right away people are kind of grossed out by the fallen angel view but they're not thinking

00:44:36.000 about it properly and i know some people probably are watching thinking wait jesus said they can't

00:44:41.440 do this or what about let's address that objection trust me i i've heard that before

00:44:45.980 a lot of times you know i've written a book that's almost 500 pages and people will call

00:44:51.300 up to me and say yeah but jesus said they can't like you've never seen that verse in the bible

00:44:56.260 oh my goodness 500 pages down the drain i never knew exactly yeah so let's address that yeah so

00:45:04.800 i've got five chapters worth of objections in this book to the fallen angel view because i

00:45:09.540 including some that most people have never even heard of because i've i've over you know 10 years

00:45:14.340 or so of research and studying on it i heard a lot of them and i try to include everything that i

00:45:19.140 could um and so did jesus say that fallen angels can't do that well in matthew 22 30 that's where

00:45:24.720 they always go you have that passage where um the sadducees come before jesus and they say hey there

00:45:30.440 was this woman who married this guy and he dies she marries the you know her his brother marries

00:45:36.120 her then he dies and you know so on and who's she gonna be married to and you know in the afterlife

00:45:42.440 Of course, Sadducees didn't believe in that anyways. 0.98

00:45:44.580 They're just trying to trap Jesus and saying how ridiculous it is.

00:45:48.540 So he says, you err because you don't know the scriptures or the power of God. 0.64

00:45:51.500 And then he says that for in the resurrection, they neither marry nor are given in marriage,

00:45:58.880 but are like the angel of God in heaven.

00:46:01.040 And so people look at that passage and they say, see, the angels don't marry.

00:46:04.500 Or angels can't marry is what they say.

00:46:06.380 And it's like, no, that's not what it says.

00:46:07.700 jesus says the angels of god in heaven do not marry but the holy angels don't marry that's all

00:46:15.860 it says they he never says the ones who left their proper abode like jude 6 talks about the ones who

00:46:21.520 left heaven and are in rebellion he never says what they can or can't do he just says what the

00:46:26.700 one that the ones in heaven don't do that right so right yep no that's that's great yeah i feel

00:46:32.720 like it's almost anticlimactic because it's um it's a huge objection and then you answer that

00:46:40.380 objection and you're like i was waiting for the zinger but the answer is short because it's it's

00:46:45.020 so such an easy objection to answer at the end of the day it's like yeah so angels don't do that

00:46:49.760 in heaven uh but rebellious angels that hate god and are not in heaven jesus doesn't say anything

00:46:57.080 about them it's not not that complicated right and what's even um what's really interesting in

00:47:03.560 luke's version of that passage jesus says for in the resurrection they neither married nor

00:47:07.940 given a marriage but are um are what is it that are equal to the angels and are sons of god

00:47:14.440 so in a sense it's almost like you're giving a little nod to the fallen angel view that yeah

00:47:20.480 they're sons of god um now i'm not i want to use that argument by itself and say see my views right

00:47:25.880 that but it is perfectly consistent and it's interesting that he uses that wording

00:47:30.240 that we when we're equal to the angel then we're sons of god now so he's not he's not saying we'd

00:47:36.820 be yeah he's not saying we become angels just right yeah yeah but yeah but i don't even understand

00:47:42.320 that but i know it's it's similar to where you know like uh you know the son of man like you

00:47:47.060 made him a little lower than the angels for now you know like um but the same that there's going

00:47:51.740 to be, you know, there's this exaltation, there's a glorification in our future for those who trust

00:47:58.200 in Christ. Okay, so that, yeah, that's really helpful understanding, okay, so angels, as far

00:48:03.680 as we know, there's nothing biblically that would eradicate the possibility of fallen angels who

00:48:10.040 have left their heavenly abode actually taking wives, human wives, and being able to procreate

00:48:15.740 with them. We'll get into this a little bit in a future episode, but I am just a little bit curious.

00:48:22.880 You kind of talked about it, but is it multiple incursions in terms of the Nephilim being there

00:48:28.600 after the flood? How does that work exactly? You don't believe, I see some guys say like,

00:48:33.420 well, the Nephilim, they built rafts, you know, or they went under the ground. And I'm just like,

00:48:37.000 and for me, the reason why I don't like that, and I'm all down for a good story,

00:48:40.620 but not a good story at the expense of God's word. But the reason I don't like that is it

00:48:44.920 subjects god to to failure it's like like i mean if you're gonna flood the the world you know if

00:48:50.440 you're gonna go you know i mean that's a big deal to flood the world that you love god god loves the

00:48:55.680 world it's it this is good um i feel like from what i can tell from the bible about the character

00:49:01.600 of god if he's gonna flood the whole earth for a particular purpose he's not gonna miss

00:49:06.500 you know what i mean right yeah well peter tells us only eight people survived and through which

00:49:12.040 eight soldiers eight soldiers spared in the ark um everybody else perishes that world perished

00:49:17.340 and the nephilim are identified in genesis 6 4 as mighty men of old men every now they're they're

00:49:24.240 human um even though i believe that they are you know their fathers were angelic beings they're

00:49:30.920 still they're still human um the the offspring are the nephilim are um so i don't think they're

00:49:36.860 surviving the flood at all now this is a i think this is a problem for the sethite view a big

00:49:42.380 problem for it i think it's a big problem for the uh royalty view how do you get the nephilim on

00:49:47.440 the earth again after the flood because they're clearly there numbers 13 33 tells us that the

00:49:52.580 nephilim were in the land now some people will look at that and say well that's just the spies

00:49:55.840 they're lying about it actually the narrator tells us moses tells us about 10 verses earlier

00:50:01.700 he names three of them that they were in hebron that um he talks about uh the anakim being there

00:50:07.940 and the anakim are of the nephilim so you have a hymen shishai and talmi the the three that are

00:50:13.260 named um so moses the narrator tells us that they're there the spies weren't lying about the

00:50:19.400 nephilim being in the land they were using that fact to try to scare the spot the rest of the

00:50:25.500 people to not go in and there's a lot more to that passage that i think we'll talk about in another

00:50:29.460 episode i've got a whole chapter a bad a bad report does not necessarily mean a lying report

00:50:34.960 it means a um distrustful in god and his promises report like a negative just like you go to the

00:50:41.720 doctor and you can get a negative report uh but that doesn't mean he's lying he could say i'm

00:50:46.400 sorry to tell you this but you have terminal cancer and it's like well i heard something

00:50:51.120 similar 17 years ago you have leukemia yeah well there you go that was a bad report but it was true

00:50:55.840 right and i'm going to be told me amen um okay well that's yeah that's great and we'll get into

00:51:01.280 it uh so the goal is for if ever any listener who made it to the end of the episode the goal is that

00:51:05.680 we're going to do four parts and um basically you know some of the notes i looked at your table of

00:51:10.260 contents and trying to map it out we've talked a little bit in preparation but um if we can we

00:51:15.860 want to try to talk a little bit more about the nephilim returning and and if there's multiple

00:51:20.560 incursions and how does this happen? And what about, you know, it seems like the fallen angels

00:51:25.780 were locked in gloomy dungeons. So how did they get out or were some locked in gloomy dungeons

00:51:29.840 and then another batch fell? So talking about how were the Nephilim on the earth again? So that'll 0.97

00:51:34.460 be our goal, I think, with episode two. And then maybe we'll get into episode two, but we want to

00:51:39.200 do at least in two or episode three, a full episode on just the giants. You know, just talking

00:51:45.300 about the Anakim, the Raphaim, you know, different classifications or tribes of giants and different

00:51:52.020 time periods. I would love to just pick your brain with, you know, okay, so the days of Noah,

00:51:56.720 but then, you know, Moses and Joshua and David and Goliath, and so talking about those kinds of

00:52:01.980 things. And then if we can, we'll try to do a fourth episode that's a catch-all. And so tune

00:52:07.740 in. If you haven't subscribed to our channel, hit the subscribe button, hit the bell, you'll be

00:52:12.300 notified whenever we come out with more content. The catch-all episode, we're going to talk about

00:52:16.820 evil spirits assaulting women. Does that still happen today? Were these spirits imprisoned?

00:52:22.960 When were they imprisoned? Are all of them imprisoned? Were there female giants is a

00:52:27.520 question that you address in your appendix. And so those are the things that we'll try to hit in

00:52:31.920 the fourth episode, but I think it's going to be great. Any final word, Tim, that you want to leave

00:52:36.180 the listeners with on on this topic of just who are the nephilim yeah the one thing i guess i

00:52:42.560 would stress about the book is i mentioned earlier so many of the articles and and now

00:52:47.200 especially on youtube so many of the videos get into this speculative or highly speculative and

00:52:51.920 fantastic things and uh link it with all sorts of end time scenarios that was not the goal in this

00:52:57.880 book at all it is let's have a very sober serious bible study on this topic and explore every single

00:53:03.180 angle that you can you can think of and uh so that that was what i attempted to do and uh i believe

00:53:10.680 i believe i accomplished that i'm sure there's things that could be stated better or maybe

00:53:15.820 there's things that uh need to be expanded at some point but um yeah you asked real quickly

00:53:21.380 about was there another incursion and we hinted at it a little bit but um yeah when that word that

00:53:26.080 says whenever the the nephilim were on the earth in those days and also afterward whenever the

00:53:31.480 sons of God did this that that's the clue um and so yeah I believe there was another one and I think 1.00

00:53:38.200 leave that as a um teaser for the next one yeah no and that's why I got you on the show because

00:53:44.600 this is this is not a pamphlet this is a gargantuan you know book and uh and the reason why I'm

00:53:51.400 reading it um and the reason why I wanted to get you on the show is because I I wanted to um

00:53:56.360 everything you just said you you said you know I wanted to give a serious biblical treatment to

00:54:00.580 this topic. And then you said, you also said, you know, some people, you know, are speculative and

00:54:05.860 they get, you know, get into various scenarios and end times. And Tim, I'm one of those people.

00:54:10.900 I will do that. I think it's fun to do that. But, but I wanted to have you on here because I,

00:54:15.780 I don't want to just do a video where I say, well, this is my view of the end times. And this is how

00:54:20.380 I think, you know, things, you know, all things, Nephilim, you know, work into the equation.

00:54:24.880 Those are fun things. I try to give caveats whenever I address it and say, okay, this is

00:54:28.860 speculation. This is my thought. This is what the Bible for sure says. This is my thought.

00:54:32.920 But I'm excited about doing a four-part series with you because this is not going to be

00:54:37.460 your typical YouTube. If you look at something that has 1.7 million views on YouTube about the

00:54:43.600 Nephilim, it may not be super accurate. But this, I'm hoping, will be one of the most accurate

00:54:48.340 sources that people can use and refer back to several times. Because some people will read

00:54:53.640 the 500-page book, and some people in our culture today won't. But they'll hop on YouTube,

00:54:57.780 and they'll be able to see your book in interview form.

00:55:01.460 And I hope it'll be a blessing to a lot of people

00:55:03.160 to get really highly accurate information.

00:55:06.880 Yeah, well, thank you for that.

00:55:08.200 And when I say speculative,

00:55:10.580 I'm okay with speculating too.

00:55:12.300 I have a whole chapter called Giant Speculations

00:55:14.540 that actually has to do with the spies and the giants,

00:55:17.040 which I think we'll talk about in the later episode.

00:55:19.120 It's a really fun chapter to think about how other places

00:55:23.520 where we might read about something very similar

00:55:25.440 actually about what happened as a result of that. I think that's interesting. I have a chapter

00:55:30.860 toward the end, I think it's the last chapter before the appendices talking about arguments

00:55:34.480 that we shouldn't use. And I'm not necessarily opposed to all the things in that chapter, but

00:55:39.240 so many times when people are talking about this issue, it's all about, well, we found these giant

00:55:44.540 skeletons in the US, but the Smithsonian came and took them and it's like, okay, well, even if that

00:55:49.220 were true, and I'm not taking the stand one way or the other, who cares in terms of what does the

00:55:55.000 bible say well it's got to be in the text yeah exactly uh and so there's there's other things

00:56:01.300 out there or that the nephilim have to be back to fight against jesus when he returns like what

00:56:05.260 what or or the whole idea of the fallen angel view comes from the book of enoch well i don't

00:56:10.440 think i mentioned the book of enoch till like chapter 10 when and it's just in the mix of a

00:56:13.880 whole bunch of other jewish writings from the intertestamental period that held this view so

00:56:17.780 no it's not based on that that book um so just yeah that's there's a whole bunch of those types

00:56:24.020 the things that i want to uh dispel or at least avoid and say look you can have a serious study

00:56:30.080 on this topic that that deals um that deals carefully with the text hopefully faithfully

00:56:36.820 with the text and um and then what is still fantastical and i think that's the beauty is

00:56:43.560 it like what i want christians to see is you don't have to make stuff up out of thin air

00:56:47.260 thin air um okay that we are designed we are a people that um there's something in us especially

00:56:53.380 as men, where we kind of want dragons to be real, just because we've got a sneaking suspicion

00:56:59.660 that we were made to slay them.

00:57:01.360 We kind of want to know that giants really were real, that God placed us in a world where

00:57:06.520 there's real good, and there's real evil, and there's real powers at work, and that

00:57:12.060 we're caught up in this incredible cosmic battle for the glory of God, for king and

00:57:18.200 country and you know that knights and shining armor and like boys grow up wanting those things

00:57:23.940 to be real and and so i think it's important first and foremost what what is true what does

00:57:28.520 the bible say but um the reason why we're doing this is to say um no like we we live in a magical

00:57:34.100 world um there are incredible things um and and i think materialism you know it's it's um

00:57:41.800 it's not that we're disenchanted um i've heard some people joe rigney says this it's not that

00:57:46.120 we're disenchanted since the Enlightenment, but this is actually the enchantment. It's a dark

00:57:52.020 enchantment. It's a dark enchantment that Darwin and materialism has just dulled our sense of

00:58:00.480 wonder. And I want Christians to see that you can have wonder, and you can have wonder faithfully

00:58:07.640 without being ridiculous. You don't have to be ridiculous to think about dragons and giants. 0.98

00:58:14.280 so amen amen all right well thanks so much for coming on the show and i look forward to episode

00:58:19.480 two all right i do too thanks for having me

00:58:22.440 join douglas wilson dr joseph boot brian sauve eric khan and myself on march 1st

00:58:34.460 2nd and 3rd for our 2024 conference it's called blueprints for chrissidom 2.0

00:58:40.760 Go and visit rightresponseconference.com to register today.

00:58:45.760 We hope to see you at the conference in March.

The NXR Podcast - September 26, 2023

THEOLOGY APPLIED - Origins Of The Nephilim ｜ 3 Primary Views ｜ Tim Chaffey

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