The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Pastors Who Won’t Rebuke Women Are Pastors Who Hate Women ｜ with Eric Conn

00:00:00.000 All right, listen, guys, I get it. Many of you are unable to financially support this ministry

00:00:04.640 because you're spending your cash and your lives on raising young children in the fear and

00:00:09.540 admonition of the Lord. Praise God for you and that endeavor. However, algorithms are a thing.

00:00:16.240 Shadow banning, sadly, is a thing. And one major way that you can help to expand the reach and

00:00:22.540 effectiveness of this ministry that doesn't cost you a dime is by spending just a few moments

00:00:28.080 leaving us a five-star review. Also, perhaps even more effective than that, you can share our

00:00:34.860 podcast with a friend. We hope you'll take the time to do so. Thank you so much. God bless.

00:00:40.640 Pastors who refuse to rebuke women are pastors who hate women. Feminism is one of the chief 0.98

00:00:46.600 causes of fatherlessness. If we truly want to protect children, then we must esteem fatherhood.

00:00:52.780 and if we want to esteem fatherhood, then we must destroy feminism. And if we are to successfully

00:00:59.940 destroy feminism, then pastors must stop hating women in their churches by treating them as though

00:01:06.120 they are nothing more than sinless victims. So in this episode of Theology Applied, I'm privileged

00:01:12.780 to have back on the show Eric Kahn, host of the Hard Man podcast and the King's Hall to discuss

00:01:19.720 this vital topic. Tune in now.

00:01:22.780 Applying God's Word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.

00:01:32.220 Well, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied. I am your host, Pastor Joel Webin with

00:01:36.560 Right Response Ministries. And in this episode, I am privileged to have as my special guest,

00:01:41.720 Eric Kahn from a whole host of different realms. He is from Hard Man Podcast, the primary host

00:01:47.880 there. He's also on the King's Hall podcast. He is also one of the staff members and leading

00:01:53.620 founding members of New Christendom Press, which hopefully by God's grace puts out great

00:01:58.940 Christian theology for years to come. And are you currently an officer at your church, Eric?

00:02:06.180 Yeah, that's right. So this last year I was a pastoral candidate. And then I think it was

00:02:13.580 mid-December I was officially installed as a pastor here at the church. Great. And then do

00:02:21.040 you guys have, you know, because I know that you've all embraced Westminster view of the

00:02:25.440 covenants and paedo-baptism, but do you guys, with you and Dan and Brian, do you have the

00:02:32.420 traditional Presbyterian model of a bifurcation of like teaching elders and ruling elders,

00:02:37.080 or is it just pastor as a pastor? Yeah, no, pastor as a pastor. So typically it'd be like

00:02:43.200 considered like in the CREC, we would have called it like a two office church is, uh, is how it

00:02:48.640 functions. It is worth mentioning too. We have two guys, both named Kevin and they are, uh, also

00:02:54.600 pastors here. They are 1689 guys. So we have three who are, uh, you know, Pato, Pato Baptist.

00:03:03.660 And then we've got two guys who are credo and, uh, we have a lot of fun with that, but, uh, it is,

00:03:09.160 it's been good we're in a unique situation with utah because of uh the mormonism that surrounds

00:03:15.600 us so we've kind of said no we're gonna we're gonna fight together on this one and and uh learn

00:03:20.740 how to be friends no that's great yeah i i didn't know about the two other guys because i always

00:03:25.500 think of you and brian and dan with the king's hall and so i knew that all three of you and brian

00:03:30.100 was the last to come along that he he kind of held to the uh the pascal position that's where i would

00:03:34.840 be in the 1689 realm. But I didn't know that you had two other elders, Kevin and Kevin.

00:03:40.860 Yeah. Yeah. You hear less from the Kevins because they're, one is a general contractor here in

00:03:46.840 Ogden. And then Kevin Love is the headmaster of St. Brennan's, but they don't have as much

00:03:53.480 media exposure, I guess you could say. Yeah. You guys just won't let them get it,

00:03:57.620 that media exposure because they're Baptist. You can't have that. 1.00

00:04:01.240 that's right all right well our topic for today uh you know you guys with kings hall you just

00:04:07.700 started a brand new season your second season with that podcast dealing with uh father uh

00:04:12.480 fatherlessness and the need for uh fathers and um i can only assume you know me and nathan were

00:04:18.320 joking about this my assistant before we started recording but i can only assume that perhaps you

00:04:22.900 know season three would be like how to be more productive and plotting along like you know my

00:04:28.220 life for yours you know with bright heart and then your father hunger so i just feel like luckily

00:04:33.840 doug wilson is prolific and he's written you know close to 100 books you guys like what what season

00:04:39.180 what podcast would you do next you'd be out of material yeah no that's that that's exactly right

00:04:44.320 we uh we are very much relying on doug uh to continue his writing and uh we we gratefully uh

00:04:50.660 will rip off his ideas and uh you know continue to push those yeah and and in your defense doug

00:04:57.280 even admits in his My Life for Yours that he ripped that idea off of going through each room

00:05:02.200 of the house. I forget the guy that he references. So every idea is coming from someone who took it

00:05:08.920 from someone else. Any idea really worth having. So you're in good company. I quote Doug all the

00:05:14.560 time. So today we want to deal with that fatherlessness. We have an epidemic in our

00:05:19.180 nation today. And sadly, the evangelical church in many ways doesn't necessarily seem to fare

00:05:24.560 better. And so, yeah, I just want to talk about that. And I thought, you know, we could begin,

00:05:28.740 you and I were talking as we were prepping a little bit, we could talk with root causes.

00:05:32.080 Why is there so much fatherlessness in society today? Yeah, it's a really good question. A lot

00:05:38.340 of it, I think, is, it's really interesting societally in America when you look at, say,

00:05:42.740 like the 1960s. So how much changed in the 1960s? You've got a number of things. Lyndon Johnson

00:05:49.840 with his, you know, Papa Big Government Acts that went through Congress and were passed

00:05:55.640 in the 60s, those had a huge bearing on the welfare state, which had a huge bearing on

00:06:00.180 really replacing fathers. 0.90

00:06:02.220 And you see this, especially in the black community.

00:06:05.120 Before the 1960s, black fatherlessness was actually at a lower rate than among the white

00:06:11.620 community.

00:06:12.880 So but post welfare state, then you have fatherlessness soaring.

00:06:17.500 And I think you can make an argument, Thomas Sowell and other people have certainly made this argument, that the black communities were being targeted for a lot of the welfare. And again, we've seen this play out. They're trying to court voters, all this sort of thing. But you see this thrust and this push for the state really to replace the father.

00:06:37.380 Even today, you see it with stuff like Black Lives Matter in that, you know, obviously 0.87

00:06:41.600 affecting the black community, but Black Lives Matter, they're against nuclear families. 0.82

00:06:46.000 But originally, when all that stuff became prominent in 2020, the one thing that they

00:06:50.720 were especially against was fatherhood.

00:06:53.640 So they would talk about non-nuclear families.

00:06:56.760 They really did not appreciate this idea of any sort of patriarchal father figure of the

00:07:03.300 home.

00:07:03.660 So again, the state is designed to replace that.

00:07:05.580 I think you also have a lot of legal factors. 1964, you have Ronald Reagan, and you've got

00:07:13.000 the really first divorce laws going through with the no-fault divorce. So 1964, Reagan is the

00:07:21.940 governor of California. He passes that. Most people are usually shocked, by the way, when you find out

00:07:26.120 that was Reagan. He would go on to say it was one of the things he regretted doing, and probably as

00:07:31.260 a conservative for a really good reason. But fundamentally, what you've had because of those

00:07:36.880 legal changes, it's very easy to divorce your husband. You see it in the red pill and sort of

00:07:42.760 the men going their own way movements today, right? Where they're starting to recognize like,

00:07:47.560 you know, why is it that a wife can cheat on her husband? She can leave him, take the children, 1.00

00:07:52.340 and he has to pay for the whole thing. He may not actually even, you know, biblically righteously,

00:07:58.060 he may not be at fault at all, but he's still going to bear the burden. I think some of those

00:08:02.620 things have certainly impacted culture. And then I think at the church level, you can look at that

00:08:07.880 and you can say, well, you really have, this is the way I look at it. Okay. In Exodus, you have

00:08:13.620 the golden calf and you have Moses. There's an apostasy that happens. And then immediately the

00:08:19.040 people fall into sexual immorality. Well, I mean, you can look at the 1960s, that's the sexual

00:08:24.540 immorality, but there was an apostasy that happened first in America. And you can see this 0.63

00:08:29.580 in the post, you know, and we call them the greatest generation, but I think they were

00:08:33.460 already struggling. And the result is 1960s, the boomer generation, really well known for the,

00:08:41.420 you know, breaking down of traditional sexual mores in society. And so all those things too

00:08:46.960 are contributing to, you have skyrocketing rates of children being born out of wedlock,

00:08:51.600 really a huge factor in the breakdown of the family.

00:08:56.100 Right. What do you think some of the reasons were for this apostasy that kind of really did happen

00:09:02.100 before the boomers with the greatest generation? My suspicion is that part of it just had to do

00:09:08.640 with seeing such atrocities in the world and just thinking, how could there be a God? Do you think

00:09:12.920 it's deeper than that? Do you think that that was one of the major factors that they just didn't

00:09:17.460 have a full-orbed theology for dealing with sovereignty of God and suffering or those

00:09:23.800 kinds of things?

00:09:25.360 Yeah, I think it's a couple of factors.

00:09:26.980 Number one is post-enlightenment thinking certainly was coming to fruition, right?

00:09:30.520 It had been around obviously for a while, but I think really coming to fruition and

00:09:33.960 you're seeing the long-term fruits of it start to come out of World War II. 0.90

00:09:38.580 So I think that's a huge part of it.

00:09:40.560 But I also think World War I in particular, when you unpack what was going on in that

00:09:45.480 war. You really had Western Christendom foolishly going to war with each other. So before we have

00:09:52.100 Mao and Stalin and Hitler and Mussolini and all the fascist communist dictators who take over the 0.55

00:09:58.040 world, before that, you have really cousins in England and Germany, Prussia, and then also 0.82

00:10:04.260 in Russia going to war with each other. And you've got Christendom slaughtering each other

00:10:08.820 on the battlefield for fundamentally stupid reasons. This is why in this time period, 1.00

00:10:13.740 It's a cataclysmic shift because it's really the undoing of the West that comes out of World War I. 0.61

00:10:19.880 And I think that legitimately shook a lot of people's faith. 0.84

00:10:24.680 This is one of the reasons, it's usually one of the biggest critiques of post-millennialism that we find, right,

00:10:31.080 is because of what happened in World War I and II, people say, you know, post-mill theology is dead.

00:10:37.760 You know, the dream of Christendom really came crashing down.

00:10:40.080 And so we would obviously disagree with that, but I think we do have to acknowledge the world in many ways came unglued during that time period.

00:10:50.020 And so what we're living with today is really like, you know, kind of the aftermath of World War II, what was established since then.

00:10:57.120 You can see a lot of it even in, you know, American politics and American dispensationalism with the eventual founding of the state of Israel.

00:11:04.260 And then, you know, I grew up with this in Disby churches where it's like, you know, we're flying Israeli flags on our front porches and stuff like that.

00:11:13.800 So I think that just shaped a lot of it.

00:11:16.120 And I think, quite frankly, if you talk to a lot of the greatest generation, they didn't really have good bearings.

00:11:23.560 You're like 50 to 60 years after the Civil War for a lot of those guys, which is kind of hard for us to fathom, right?

00:11:31.400 That they also lived through that period.

00:11:33.420 That was a very disruptive period. Calvinism was dying. This is one of the other arguments that I've made, is that patriarchy and Calvinism go together. And with the rise of Unitarianism in America in the 1800s, you really saw Calvinism and Puritanism waning. And those were the things that were holding society together, particularly the nuclear family.

00:11:56.080 Right. Yeah, no, I agree with that. I mean, just from my personal pastoral counseling, anytime there's an objection or a hesitancy or just a fear of wives submitting to husbands and patriarchy, I've always noticed that it goes hand in hand. 1.00

00:12:14.760 And it's usually the person who doesn't like Reformed theology.

00:12:19.320 Believe it or not, not everybody in my church is a Calvinist.

00:12:22.760 Most are, because I'm fairly outspoken in that regard.

00:12:26.480 It's a systematic way of theologically thinking that's going to influence everything that I,

00:12:32.460 every text that I cover, Reformed theology is there.

00:12:37.460 But there are individuals who aren't persuaded by Calvinistic doctrine.

00:12:42.480 And often that's the same individual who struggles with patriarchy.

00:12:47.220 And I think of what, I believe it's Peter that he talks about,

00:12:51.700 and you are her daughters, speaking of Sarah, who called her husband, Abraham, her lowercase l, lord, master, the head, her head.

00:13:00.940 And he says, you're her daughters if you do likewise, if you follow in her example.

00:13:06.160 But then he goes on and says, and do not fear anything that is frightening.

00:13:10.780 And one of the things that I think gives us peace, whether we're a man or a woman, we all have someone, human authority placed by God in our lives that we have to submit to, to varying degrees, according to the word of God.

00:13:23.260 And to know that there's a Lord of Lords, right?

00:13:26.840 Abraham was, you know, when you think like, who are these Lords that Jesus is Lord of, right?

00:13:30.680 He's King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

00:13:32.380 Well, he's King of earthly Kings and he's King of earthly Lords.

00:13:35.440 And one example of an earthly Lord is a husband.

00:13:37.380 And to know, you know, as a wife, that there's a Lord over this Lord who loves me and who is sovereign over this lesser Lord, my husband, and guiding him, you know, that causes the fear associated with the commandment to submit to your husband to not be so daunting, you know, that you don't have to fear that which is frightening.

00:13:59.660 But if you don't believe that God's sovereign, then yeah, it's like, well, I know my husband. I know his flaws. I know his weaknesses. And so at least in no other way, I see a correlation there. Is there another correlation that you're referring to, Calvinism and patriarchy?

00:14:17.380 Yeah, no, I think that's right. And then I think too, like you'll watch like, uh, you know,

00:14:24.260 Caddy Stanton and the other ladies who were pushing early wave feminism, which a lot of

00:14:27.740 people mistakenly today are like, Oh, first wave was fine. No, it really wasn't. Um, you look at

00:14:33.200 their theology and their background, those women were sincerely trying to replace male pastors, 0.98

00:14:38.440 um, slowly granted. Um, but yeah, so they come on the scene, they're pushing feminism 1.00

00:14:45.000 and you can read their writing

00:14:47.540 and the thing that they hate is Calvinism

00:14:49.760 because, you know, it's kind of like the reaction

00:14:53.880 you would see people having to God's sovereignty, right?

00:14:57.280 When people first come in, introduced to that doctrine,

00:14:59.960 it's like, oh yeah, you know, man's responsibility,

00:15:02.840 God's sovereignty, they get really frustrated.

00:15:04.780 You can see it in them, but it's the same thing

00:15:06.960 when you're talking about patriarchy

00:15:09.480 and you're talking about submission.

00:15:11.260 Like just look up in the Greek in Ephesians 5,

00:15:13.920 What does submission actually mean? It means somebody's in charge and somebody isn't. It means hierarchy, a number of those things. But it's also interesting. I think the connection also would be that you ask what has caused fatherlessness? Feminism.

00:15:29.060 I mean, feminism has been a cancer in the bones of the nuclear family, and it's something that I think today in the church especially, instead of addressing that and calling that out, what pastors have done is said, like, okay, let's do the Tim Keller. 0.60

00:15:44.560 Let's try to make a way for them to coexist, you know, which fundamentally has been like, you know, if you or I were to say, well, maybe I can just live with the cancer.

00:15:53.420 Maybe it won't destroy me.

00:15:56.580 Right.

00:15:57.360 Yeah, how to live with cancer.

00:15:58.640 Yeah, the third way, you know, Keller approach has been, that in itself has been a plague on modern evangelicalism for quite a while.

00:16:07.840 So the rise of feminism, and I think we could probably root, you know, no fault divorce within the larger banner of feminism.

00:16:14.880 And then, you know, you said that with feminism, there was this simultaneous thing happening of like, there's this, this aversion towards patriarchy, but also the, you know, the turning away from classically reformed doctrine and an aversion towards Calvinism.

00:16:31.180 And do you feel like any of that had to do with, you know, I always think of Charles Finney and the, you know, the second Great Awakening that wasn't so great.

00:16:38.980 I mean, his systematic theology, I've read bits and pieces of it.

00:16:42.200 I can't read the whole thing because I, you know, my IQ would plummet and I would no longer be qualified to be, you know, a husband or a father or a pastor.

00:16:49.880 So, you know, you can't read too much Finney and still be sane.

00:16:52.860 But the little bit that I have been able to stomach, I mean, the guy was just a quack. 1.00

00:16:57.420 Like he was, he was, and he was a God hating, like not just, he wasn't just stupid. 1.00

00:17:01.900 He was wicked. 1.00

00:17:02.900 He was a wicked man. 0.97

00:17:03.740 And so, um, just hated the word of God and, uh, and twisted it and tweaked it every chance 0.95

00:17:08.940 he got.

00:17:09.320 And I feel, I feel like, you know, because the first great awakening is like, you've

00:17:12.200 got, yeah, you've got the Wesleys, you know, but you've got Whitfield and you've got, you

00:17:16.000 know, Edwards and, you know, um, it, it seems like with that rise of decisionism, emotionalism,

00:17:21.880 um, this emphasis on man and his will and his choices seems like a lot of that can't

00:17:27.400 came in the second great awakening. And I'm sure we can find traces before that, you know,

00:17:31.740 going all the way back to the enlightenment. But do you think that has anything to do with it?

00:17:35.800 Some of the Charles Finney stuff? Yeah, I absolutely do. I think it's huge. And then

00:17:40.500 kind of later influence, but Billy Graham, I actually, believe it or not, Joel, I tortured

00:17:47.320 myself by reading Jesus and John Wayne. And one of the interesting things about that book that I

00:17:54.200 think it may be the only thing that is historically accurate in the book, um, is kind of her

00:18:00.140 description of how Billy Graham bought, he really brought mass communication to Christendom.

00:18:05.040 And, but that ended up being the death of Christendom and the rise of like the big fast

00:18:09.160 and famous mega church movement, like everything in mega church movements that we see today.

00:18:13.700 And we think it, oh, this is so cool.

00:18:15.340 It really was Billy Graham.

00:18:17.500 And I think that that culture has so dominated.

00:18:21.600 Well, the main thrust of Billy Graham was, well, if we're going to appeal to all of America through like a TV crusade type thing, then we have to gear our content so that it's ecumenical, which means, you know, we kind of have to water things down.

00:18:36.420 We have to focus on, quote unquote, core doctrines.

00:18:39.360 So Billy Graham is really, he's an early form of like gospel centered types of ideology where let's just focus on the main thing, everything else, let's kind of ditch it.

00:18:49.680 And I think slowly that's just the watering down of Christendom and of Christianity in America. It makes it susceptible to things like feminism, right? To the point today where like even the conservative movement as a whole, even the part that would call itself, you know, mainline Christian. 0.52

00:19:07.940 And I mean, you know, we, we've kind of said this over and over again. 0.95

00:19:12.040 It's like, they're, they're kind of limp wristed and impotent because they, they don't want

00:19:16.520 to unleash scripture.

00:19:17.320 They don't want to go to headship and patriarchy and hierarchy and all the things that we find

00:19:21.900 there.

00:19:22.480 They're like, well, you know, let's let women work and maybe they can be pastors, but you

00:19:28.240 know, let's, but, but, but slowly the, the ground gets eroded and it's like, well, what's

00:19:31.920 left?

00:19:32.760 Uh, not, not a whole lot.

00:19:35.320 Right.

00:19:35.800 Yeah.

00:19:36.360 You're absolutely right.

00:19:37.280 I think, you know, it's funny, but fundamentalism, and I know you agree with this because I've heard you talk about it, but, you know, a lot of different phrases that we could use, right?

00:19:45.400 So the theological minimalism, you know, or the just whittling down to the lowest common denominator, you know, this idea of here are a few doctrines and we're going to defend, you know, these five or six doctrines because the, you know, the church is under attack.

00:20:02.120 The Christian faith is under attack. And so we need all the fighting men we can get to link arms and preserve, you know, what is most precious. And it's, you know, what's most precious? Well, you, you know, you could, you could print it on, on a track, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's about, you know, 350 words. And that's what's most precious. And that's what we're going to defend.

00:20:22.720 And, um, and so you, you let go of all these other things, but it's, um, it's, it's, uh,

00:20:28.360 it's a faithless strategy.

00:20:29.540 It's too conservative.

00:20:30.500 It's too, um, well, it's not, you know, it's fearful.

00:20:33.540 Uh, it's, it's almost like, uh, if you think of, you know, the battle of Helms deep, you

00:20:38.980 know, and it's like, all right, like, well, you know, this wall has been breached fall

00:20:42.240 back, you know, to the inner wall.

00:20:43.680 And then we're going to fall back again.

00:20:45.160 Um, well, you know, there is a time for a tactical retreat.

00:20:48.940 I do think that there is a biblical, you know, basis for that, employing that strategy.

00:20:55.640 But at the same time, you don't want to fall back too soon.

00:20:58.760 Sometimes it's like, you know, like one orc, you know, just barely, you know, climbed over

00:21:03.620 the wall and we're like, fall back, you know, and it's like, wait a second, like, why are

00:21:08.260 we surrendering all of this ground?

00:21:10.420 Because what we don't realize is that, you know, you fall back, but what just happened

00:21:15.720 is now this whole wall is breached, and that whole portion of the city, of the kingdom,

00:21:20.880 all of its resources, all of its weaponry, all of its strengths, all of its advantages,

00:21:27.160 tactical advantages, are now in the hands of the enemy. And so I think in some ways it was just,

00:21:33.760 whether it be apathy, theological and just spiritual apathy, or whether it be

00:21:38.460 cowardice, but probably a little bit of both, but falling back too soon and surrendering some

00:21:44.780 of these things and say, well, it's okay. We can, you know, we can write it off. Like, yeah,

00:21:48.820 it's a compromise. Yeah. It's a surrender, but God will be pleased in the end because we've

00:21:52.280 preserved what God cares about the most, you know, we're gospel centered. And then gospel

00:21:56.740 centered just becomes a euphemism for really, um, gospel myoptic. It's only the gospel. Um,

00:22:03.020 it's gospel. I, I, you know, I've stopped using the phrase to describe myself, which is a shame

00:22:07.820 Because on its face, it's a good phrase.

00:22:12.140 And in the technical sense, I am a gospel-centered Christian.

00:22:16.100 But I no longer use it unless I have time to offer, you know, like a 15-minute disclaimer.

00:22:21.460 Because gospel centrality has been steamrolled into gospel myopticism.

00:22:28.220 And the best way I could illustrate it is it's basically become the young, reformed, and restless, you know, hip way of saying I'm a red-letter only Christian.

00:22:36.680 that's you know and and here's the thing the red letter christian who's like just give me the words

00:22:41.580 of jesus not the words of paul not the words you know like as a you know it's only the words of

00:22:47.120 jesus that are actually from jesus you know and then this was all you know it's not inspired by

00:22:51.340 the holy spirit but the funny thing is the red letter christian is actually in a better spot

00:22:55.240 than than today's gospel-centered christian because at least the red letter christian with

00:22:59.560 the words of jesus that includes both law and gospel because jesus actually gave commands

00:23:04.280 Whereas like today, the gospel-centered Christian, it's not like, take the red letters from Jesus and then go ahead and divide that by about 10.

00:23:13.920 You know, because I mean, Jesus, so much of what he said was about hell and about money and about greed.

00:23:19.000 And these are the commandments of God, not one jot or tittle, you know, will pass away.

00:23:23.300 Heaven and earth will pass away before this law.

00:23:25.080 Like Jesus loved the law and he preached the law.

00:23:28.180 So, I mean, even the Sermon on the Mount, you know, what's, you know, percentage of those three chapters in Matthew are only gospel, you know?

00:23:38.880 And so gospel-centered has basically, if you wanted to, you know, define it in real clear terms, you're looking at probably maybe 1% of the Bible.

00:23:48.500 So when someone says, I'm gospel-centered today, most of them, not all of them, because some of them still use the phrase and they mean it in the way that I do or the way that you do.

00:23:57.780 But a lot of them, I would say more than half, if they say I'm a gospel-centered Christian,

00:24:04.200 what they're essentially saying is I'm a Christian who believes about 1%, 1% to 2% of the Bible.

00:24:10.320 Yeah. 0.86

00:24:11.020 You think that's fair?

00:24:12.420 Yeah, I think it is fair.

00:24:14.880 Like you're saying, it just becomes this great watering down.

00:24:18.820 And then I think that becomes the problem.

00:24:20.260 like you could even see this in the 60s where the church because they had gone in many ways

00:24:27.340 fundamentalist um you had a lot of the fundamentalizing you know let's build around

00:24:33.280 core doctrines well what comes in the early 60s you've got the birth control pill

00:24:37.220 which is just like a small meteor that becomes enormous and leaves it like an earth-wide crater

00:24:44.800 now but it was i think because the church if you're going to say we just have core doctrines

00:24:49.880 well, is conception a core doctrine or the Bible's teaching on conception? For those people,

00:24:56.540 the answer would be no. And so it was kind of like, well, yeah, fertility and fruitfulness,

00:25:01.880 don't worry about that. It's not the gospel. And really what they mean is soteria. It's not

00:25:07.840 the doctrine of salvation. And I think that becomes a problem though, because look at the

00:25:14.340 church today. I mean, they're not equipped to deal with the sexual issue. That's been the core

00:25:19.160 front of the battle um i think i was listening to uh you probably saw this on twitter but like

00:25:24.980 you know there were more videos of jd greer talking about how like the christian church

00:25:29.520 needs to be the safest place for somebody to come out as transgender and i was like jd what are you

00:25:34.940 i mean if if you had been taking a theologically maximal position and you had read cover to cover

00:25:43.180 and you've been studying this issue like most faithful pastors should have been for the last

00:25:48.100 couple of decades or even a decade, then you're going to know that there's, there are actually

00:25:52.120 clear answers to this. Um, but yeah, that's the state of the church. And for the record,

00:25:58.400 the church should be the safest place, um, for somebody to, uh, cause what we're saying is to 0.53

00:26:03.700 come out as transgender or to come out as, you know, LGBT, you know, QIL, LMNOP, you know,

00:26:10.300 whatever it is. Um, it's, the church should be the safest place. Cause what we're talking about

00:26:16.380 is is a place to confess sin so the church should be yeah if you have repentance in mind

00:26:22.360 but first when exactly when you say coming out what do you mean by coming out um that should

00:26:28.080 mean confess sin because this is objectively sinful according to the word of god even the

00:26:32.640 desire concupiscence even the desire is sin and then when you say what do you mean when you say

00:26:37.480 safe um safe in the sense that like um it's the place that when sin is confessed comes alongside

00:26:43.720 you to help you mortify your sin by grace so that your soul doesn't go to hell? Amen. Yeah,

00:26:50.200 the church should be this. But what you mean, JD, when you say the safest place to come out

00:26:54.500 is you don't mean safest for your soul eternally when you confess sin by helping you put it to

00:27:01.200 death. You mean the place that will affirm your sin. This should be the place that won't correct

00:27:06.960 you, that won't disagree with you, that won't say anything that's going to hurt you or offend

00:27:13.640 you or any, any of these, you know, and we know that's what he's saying. We know that that's what

00:27:18.040 Andy Stanley is saying. We know that, you know, the, the pastor, that the clips have been going

00:27:22.300 around, you know, in the Twitter verse, uh, from, you know, Rick Warren's church, you know, saying, 0.98

00:27:26.980 well, I don't, I don't know if, you know, two gay dudes, if two sodomites are married. Um, and then 0.98

00:27:31.580 all of a sudden, you know, they become converted and they start going to your church and they ask

00:27:34.800 one of the pastors for counsel, like, should we get divorced? Well, God hates divorce. That's a

00:27:38.560 hard one that's man that's a toughie you know and you were never married right it's just yeah

00:27:43.940 exactly you were never married you know um and and he throws in you know he throws in the issue

00:27:48.580 of polygamy you know and says well you know what what about when you're doing you know evangelism

00:27:53.020 and and an islamic country you know and a man has five wives you know and then he comes to christ 0.54

00:27:58.820 um do you tell him you know like to divorce four of them do you which which one does he get to

00:28:04.120 keep you know or is he bound to keep the first and the other four were illegitimate and and even that

00:28:09.960 is something that like we we just we're too bashful right we're too we're too embarrassed by the word

00:28:15.980 of god to be because there's a clear answer to that in my opinion the answer is that man is a

00:28:21.740 christian his wives they are now a christian household his wives need to confess and obey

00:28:27.340 the gospel and confess christ as lord they need to train up their children the fear and admonition

00:28:32.500 of the Lord and he can't be an elder. And you don't say that this was right or that he should

00:28:37.700 do it again. But the difference is it's a category difference. Two dudes aren't married. It's not

00:28:45.520 marriage. We can talk about all the flaws with polygamists, that marriage and the flaws that 1.00

00:28:50.840 Abraham shouldn't have married Sarah's servant. That was a bad move. Lamech is the first example 0.99

00:28:56.340 of polygamy in the Bible. And he's not a great guy to emulate his example. He's not. But 0.98

00:29:02.420 But the fact that we can't even detect a difference just shows us how far down the rabbit hole of perversion we've gone.

00:29:12.620 Any other thoughts on that?

00:29:14.280 I've got some other questions.

00:29:15.480 Go ahead.

00:29:16.640 Yeah, just kind of wrapping that all up. 0.99

00:29:18.720 I would just say what we need to see a lot of times as Christians is that, okay, all the promotion of homosexuality, 0.68

00:29:24.560 all the promotion or the even desensitization that is going on so that you watch so much Will 0.98

00:29:31.180 and Grace or you know about it in the culture, it's in every movie, so that your gag reflex

00:29:36.200 becomes desensitized. We have to fundamentally understand all of that is a war on fatherhood.

00:29:42.820 It's a war on families. It's a war on God's order and structure. They'll try to make you believe

00:29:48.340 that two dudes who purchase on the black market a child and then fly home with him,

00:29:53.380 that they're doing a loving, familial, fatherly thing.

00:29:56.580 They're not.

00:29:57.700 And so I think we just need to continue to point that out

00:30:00.440 and see that all these gross forms of perversion of fatherhood

00:30:05.820 are just direct attacks, on the other hand.

00:30:08.120 We have to see that all of it is they're trying to destroy,

00:30:12.040 ultimately, the fatherhood of God

00:30:13.660 and the order that he's created in the world.

00:30:16.740 So the bent is chaos.

00:30:18.340 And then again, as Christians, we have to oppose that satanic push

00:30:23.320 from the enemy amen yeah the the attack when it really comes down to it it's an attack not on

00:30:29.480 fathers but the father the father of life yes from whom all blessings come from and who all

00:30:34.580 earthly fathers flow from and ultimately their authority resides with him there's no inherent

00:30:39.560 authority human authority it's all vested authority that comes from god and because god is immortal

00:30:44.260 um and you know no one can he dwells in brilliant light unapproachable light he's you know he's

00:30:50.360 invulnerable. Nobody can get God. So Satan always attacks his image bearers and fills the heart of

00:30:55.560 wicked men and wicked women to attack his image bearers, right? If I can't take out God, I'll take

00:31:00.360 out the next best thing. And so you're absolutely right. So there's the whole issue of theological

00:31:07.480 minimalism, fundamentalism in all the wrong ways. We're not using fundamentalism to say,

00:31:15.200 A guy who believes in six literal days of creation and a young earth.

00:31:20.000 I'm one of those guys.

00:31:21.140 I'm pretty sure you're one of those guys.

00:31:23.140 Yeah.

00:31:23.840 Yeah.

00:31:24.680 We're both Christians.

00:31:27.720 Yeah, that's right.

00:31:29.100 Amen.

00:31:30.360 So when we say fundamentalists, we're not talking about guys who just believe the Bible.

00:31:35.080 We're talking about fundamentalism in the sense of guys who have truncated the Bible into four or five things.

00:31:41.340 And so that theological minimalism, that lowest common denominator, you know, and the rusting, eroding away of a robust, you know, Christian theology, that was an issue.

00:31:55.260 And then, you know, you're saying the greatest generation and, you know, feminism, and that's where feminism came in.

00:32:02.820 All these things are different contributors. 0.97

00:32:05.240 No fault divorce was one of the things you mentioned.

00:32:07.080 all the multiple multifaceted, you know, attack on fathers and fatherhood has been on decline.

00:32:15.060 So all that being said, where are we at now? You know, one of the things that we were talking

00:32:19.000 about before we started recording is just some of the statistics now, you know, in terms of like

00:32:24.180 how much, how rampant divorce really is. And when it comes to divorce, you know, because what I

00:32:30.160 continue to hear people, you know, do, you know, the classic, you know, Mother's Day sermon is,

00:32:34.680 you know, thank God for mother's father's day sermon is, you know, do better men. You're,

00:32:38.840 you're lousy. And, and so, um, still to this day, when you think of divorce and these kinds of 0.99

00:32:43.540 things, like most pastors and most Christians, they think, yeah, men are adulterous, you know, 0.98

00:32:47.900 and they, their porn habits and, you know, and, and yeah, men are sinners. Men need Christ. Men 0.99

00:32:53.620 need to man up and, uh, and to repent and to lead in repentance and all those things. But that's, 0.70

00:32:58.860 um, I just feel like we're not addressing the problem because we're just not willing to look

00:33:02.820 at the cold, hard facts. We're not willing to live in reality. And the reality is that men

00:33:08.640 are sinners, but women are sinners too. And some of the statistics are very unfavorable towards

00:33:14.820 women. Can we look at some of those? Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think

00:33:18.600 it's because it creates this environment where we just give women a pass on everything. So 0.97

00:33:23.620 I think there's sort of like a, you know, we talk about, I have talked about with Michael

00:33:27.900 Foster, like vintage foolishness, right?

00:33:30.280 Foolishness that matures generationally and gets worse over time. 0.99

00:33:34.980 I think this is certainly true on the women's sin because it hasn't been dealt with. 0.99

00:33:40.940 So yeah, I mean, these statistics go against everything that you find in the mainstream

00:33:45.380 media, but you've got 70% of divorces in America are initiated by women, 70%.

00:33:53.240 That is an astronomically high number. 0.94

00:33:56.440 70%.

00:33:57.900 Yeah. 70% of women are initiating divorces. And then this is a really interesting kind of subset 1.00

00:34:05.520 of this. When you go to college education, so college educated women initiate divorce at a rate 1.00

00:34:12.840 higher than 90%. Okay. So just to make sure that people don't miss that, because this is 1.00

00:34:19.540 staggering. So you're saying across the board, out of every divorce that happens in America,

00:34:23.920 70% of those divorces

00:34:26.980 in married couples in America

00:34:28.460 are initiated by the wife

00:34:29.840 not the husband 0.97

00:34:30.560 but the wife 0.67

00:34:31.600 and so that leaves 30%

00:34:33.440 so that means

00:34:34.120 70 is over two times

00:34:36.160 so every time you see

00:34:37.620 a divorced couple

00:34:38.480 you've got 1.00

00:34:40.620 for every one of those

00:34:42.420 you've got almost

00:34:43.200 two and a half times 1.00

00:34:44.480 the chance that the woman 0.59

00:34:46.000 is the one who initiated

00:34:47.040 that divorce

00:34:47.640 not the man

00:34:48.140 and then you're saying

00:34:49.140 for women who are

00:34:49.820 college educated 1.00

00:34:50.900 that it's over 90% 0.99

00:34:53.920 So over nine times, yeah, but it's just, you know, men need to be better and women are

00:35:01.500 great, right?

00:35:02.700 Yeah.

00:35:03.040 And that's kind of what's interesting about it is like, okay, so you go to the Matt Chandler

00:35:06.400 stuff, you know, Jesus wants the rose.

00:35:09.480 He's just the stuff that we kind of laugh at, but yet it's still predominant in the

00:35:14.200 churches where, you know, I know it's different at our church.

00:35:17.260 I'm sure it is at yours as well, but you know, we're actually preaching to women and saying,

00:35:22.040 hey, you have to deal with the sins that are particular to women, and here's what they are. 0.94

00:35:28.520 Here's the ways that you're prone to sin against your husband and nag him and on and on the list 0.99

00:35:33.080 goes. So we address that, but the culture at large doesn't. In fact, what we're told, 0.79

00:35:39.800 there was a good book by Christina Hoff Summers. It was called The War Against Boys.

00:35:44.100 And it goes back to the mid-80s to present day. And it's basically talking about how the whole

00:35:49.040 education system is like the world is slighted in favor of men and women are always getting the

00:35:55.520 short end of the stick. But then she goes through and she unpacks that and she's like, it's the 1.00

00:35:58.780 opposite. The opposite is actually true that women are favored at every turn. And so here's a female 0.59

00:36:04.680 author saying that and saying, no, no, that literally like the entire school system is set 1.00

00:36:09.840 up so that women can succeed. And as a result, boys, men are suffering. So yeah, I think that

00:36:16.680 So what's the long term of all of that? Well, I think that there's a lot of men who feel

00:36:23.400 this sort of black-pilled feeling of like, what am I supposed to do about this? The system is

00:36:28.920 rigged against me, right? We had the case of Jeff Younger in Texas. I don't know if you were

00:36:33.600 following this, but his wife wants to make their son transgender. And Jeff was like, absolutely not.

00:36:39.980 And it goes to court and the judge is like, no, not only is this going to happen,

00:36:44.320 uh, Jeff, you're not allowed to talk about it. You know, this is like, so as men, it's easy

00:36:50.720 to understand why a lot of us, a lot of men would feel totally just silenced and feel a pretty great

00:36:57.860 sense of oppression. Right. And real quick, just to go back for a second, I completely agree. And

00:37:03.980 we'll keep moving with that because there's a lot to unpack, but to play the devil's advocate for

00:37:08.500 anybody who would counter, you know, with the earlier statistics that you just presented,

00:37:12.140 you know, seven across the board, 70% of divorce is initiated by women. And then when it comes to

00:37:17.800 college educated women who are in marriage that ends in divorce, it's over 90% of the wife who

00:37:24.380 initiated that divorce, not the husband. One of the counters that I frequently have heard from

00:37:28.320 people is they'll say, you know, because I'm aware of those statistics and people say, well, the

00:37:33.100 reason why women initiate divorce more than men is because men are physically stronger. And so

00:37:38.620 divorce, leaving, abandonment, physically retreating from the marriage is the only 0.98

00:37:44.660 course of action that a woman has at her disposal. Whereas the man doesn't feel as much of an urgency 0.94

00:37:51.600 or a need to get out of the home and get out of the marriage because he's physically superior to

00:37:56.580 his wife. He's not physically threatened. And so, you know, the real reason why women are divorcing

00:38:01.900 their husbands, you know, several times more than husbands are divorcing their wives is because

00:38:07.820 there's domestic violence in the home, there's physical abuse, and that's always the guise.

00:38:13.560 So we talked about this a little bit before we started recording. Can you read the statistics

00:38:17.600 on that, Eric? Yeah. And Joel, you're absolutely right. There is domestic violence in the home.

00:38:23.260 Unfortunately, for the people who make that argument, so this is from one study,

00:38:27.540 it says that 70%, 70% of domestic violence in relationships is perpetrated by the women.

00:38:35.640 yeah so again it's not like a you know and the men 49 split here and the men yeah that's the

00:38:43.580 yeah that's the other thing they found is men are much less likely to go to the authorities

00:38:49.900 or anybody else and say yeah my you know my wife my girlfriend whatever has been she's been beating

00:38:54.060 me but 70 percent that's high yeah that's high so 70 so this is the same statistic as divorce 0.89

00:39:02.740 So 70% of women across the board, whether that's the average of college educated, non-college educated, across the board, 70% of women in America who are married, who get divorced, 70% of them initiated that divorce. 0.53

00:39:16.580 And then when it comes to domestic violence, if there's domestic violence in a home, in a marriage between husband and wife, again, it's 70% of the women who initiated that violence.

00:39:25.620 And you and I have both, you know, you know, talked about this and not not with specificity, not sharing events, you know, particular events or certainly not sharing names.

00:39:35.740 But both of us over the years in pastoral ministry have dealt with couples within the church and not just within, you know, J.D. Greer's church, you know, but within, you know, true gospel preaching churches like yours and mine.

00:39:49.080 we've dealt with married couples where um where it's it's the wife who is physically assaulting

00:39:56.920 her husband and i've i've had to deal with those cases and and it's really challenging um to be

00:40:03.040 just just practically you know telling the husband you you must get out um you you must physically

00:40:07.940 you have to run um and and when you run here's another thing like you can't push her because you

00:40:13.900 people don't understand how much stronger men are than women. You cannot, you cannot push her

00:40:20.420 even just to try, because I've dealt with cases where, where the, the husband has been cornered,

00:40:26.180 physically cornered back into a bedroom in the home and she's blocking the door. Um, and then

00:40:32.640 she's, you know, throwing things at him and beating and hitting him. And it's like, you've

00:40:37.400 got to get out of there. Um, but you can't push her because I've dealt with those cases too,

00:40:41.500 where I was just trying to leave and I pushed her and she flew and hit the wall. And dude,

00:40:47.020 it's a nightmare having to pastor through those kinds of situations. I'll just say,

00:40:54.360 I'll say it like this. In my pastoral experience, which granted, I'm not 70 years old. I haven't

00:41:01.420 been doing it for 50 years, but 10 years, give or take, in my decade of pastoral experience,

00:41:07.720 I've never actually counseled a married couple where the husband hit his wife.

00:41:16.520 I have only counseled in all the domestic violence issues, which there have been a few. 0.99

00:41:21.580 It has always been the wife is physically hitting. 0.99

00:41:25.080 I'm talking about closed fist hitting her husband. 0.97

00:41:28.600 And the most that a husband has done is pushed her to try to get out of the way to run out

00:41:34.500 of the house.

00:41:34.980 um that's yeah it's that it's really interesting joel i i've had i can think of a handful right

00:41:42.920 of guys who were there was legit like you know domestic violence but i would say on the whole

00:41:49.440 uh my experience in 10 or so plus years it's more than that now but a pastoral council and

00:41:57.180 that sort of thing i i would say it's it's much more common to see it just doesn't it gets looked

00:42:03.200 down on as, oh, it's not a big deal. But it's like, again, wives who are throwing things, 1.00

00:42:07.260 slapping, hitting, that sort of thing. It happens surprising number of times. I think for most 1.00

00:42:14.960 people would be shocked to know how much that's happening. But it's also interesting. I was

00:42:18.500 talking to a pastor who's in his seventies now, sort of at the retirement age, kind of seen it

00:42:22.940 all across the last, you know, 30, 40 years of ministry. And he said to me, he said, you know,

00:42:27.460 it's weird because when like 35 years ago, he said it was almost always, it seemed like

00:42:32.380 predominantly like kind of deadbeat guy come on get it together um you know and the ladies are

00:42:38.620 like you know sweet ladies like standing by i'm kind of you know oversimplifying this uh but he

00:42:44.240 said you know it's it's amazing in the last 10 years he said how many times i'm i'm dealing with

00:42:49.980 women who are just like you know what i'm not emotionally fulfilled i'm leaving him and he said

00:42:56.700 it's interesting how many of the guys is like it's he's a good guy yeah he's not you know a

00:43:01.500 character from a Christmas Prince on Netflix or something, but he's, he's providing, he's,

00:43:07.440 he's meeting all the basic needs. You know, he's taking the family to church, but, um, it kind of

00:43:13.080 goes to the, um, I think it was last year or the year before, you know, Adele, the singer, she

00:43:18.520 leaves her husband and she goes on Oprah and Oprah's like, why did you leave your husband?

00:43:23.380 And she said, well, you know, I just wasn't a hundred percent happy all the time. And so I

00:43:29.320 decided to leave him. And Oprah said, you know what, honey, that is such a powerful story for

00:43:33.860 women today. And I'm sitting there thinking like, this is horrible advice. I mean, shamefully

00:43:40.100 arrogant, self-centered. Nobody is telling them that the reality of that situation, right? That 0.96

00:43:46.320 you're destroying your own life. You're destroying your children's life. You're wrecking this guy's

00:43:50.920 life because you weren't a hundred percent happy. Well, like who's telling these people this stuff

00:43:55.980 that you deserve to be 100% happy all the time.

00:43:58.560 Guarantee you Adele's not 100% happy now after she left.

00:44:02.920 But again, yeah, I think that you're seeing this trend

00:44:05.080 where it's like more and more in counseling. 0.86

00:44:08.700 Yeah, it's actually the women. 0.98

00:44:11.740 Because those sins haven't been dealt with. 0.66

00:44:14.220 And with that, just to give a theological disclaimer to the listener.

00:44:18.220 So when we think in terms of the doctrine of total depravity,

00:44:23.020 people are totally depraved across the board.

00:44:25.980 If we were measuring statistics, it would be equal across the board.

00:44:29.460 We believe, you know, David doesn't just say, you know, in sin did my mother give birth

00:44:33.500 to me, but in sin did my mother conceive me?

00:44:35.440 And so from conception, because of the fall, because of the fall of Adam and sin entering

00:44:40.740 the world, every single human being, all of his posterity has been born with a sin nature

00:44:46.880 and conceived with a sin nature.

00:44:48.400 And so when we speak of total depravity, distinguishing that for a moment from utter

00:44:51.960 depravity, total depravity refers to sin at the level of the heart.

00:44:55.560 It's speaking of the inward man, meaning that all his inclinations, all his motives and incentives and thoughts are geared towards self and ultimately in rebellion against God.

00:45:08.800 Romans chapter 8 says the mind of the sinful man, it does not submit to God's law, nor can it.

00:45:15.040 And so it's unwilling and unable apart from conversion.

00:45:18.800 And so all people are totally depraved.

00:45:21.420 So if we're speaking of man, our biblical anthropology, if we're speaking of man inwardly, at the inward level, the level of the heart, all men, and so that would include both men and women, are equally sinful internally. 0.56

00:45:35.320 at the level of the heart, apart from Christ, from conception, apart from conversion, both 0.73

00:45:42.460 men and women, old men, young men, black men, white men, women, men, all across the board,

00:45:49.560 every single human being is equally, totally depraved, equally sinful at the internal level. 0.76

00:45:54.200 However, to apply an illustration to that, thinking about rearing children and parenting,

00:45:59.640 Every child is equally totally depraved apart from Christ, but not every child is equally

00:46:06.560 misbehaved in their outward actions, meaning that internal sin of total depravity does not

00:46:13.940 necessarily outwardly manifest itself equally with each child. There are better behaved children

00:46:20.600 and there are worse behaved children. And what makes the difference? This is what I'm getting

00:46:25.520 to. What makes the difference is not nature, it's nurture. If we speak of this at the nature level

00:46:33.800 internally, well, every child is conceived totally depraved. But not every child, that total depravity

00:46:40.780 doesn't equally manifest itself through actions and deeds, behaviors, speech, words, attitude,

00:46:49.200 all that that varies there's massive disparities from child to child and all of that the distinguishing

00:46:57.520 factor for that is not nature total depravity but nurture parenting um is the child disciplined

00:47:04.020 in the way that the bible says they should be disciplined are they loved in the way that the

00:47:08.360 bible says they should be loved and so my question is going back to because i love the term that you

00:47:13.100 coined the vintage what was it vintage sin or vintage what yeah vintage foolishness yeah

00:47:18.780 Vintage foolishness. So just for an individual person, if their sin is left unchecked, if a child is raised in a home where the parents are absent, it's a hands-off, laissez-faire approach. There's no biblical discipline. There's no correction offered. They're allowed to do whatever they want. They're always watching TV. Every time they whine and complain, they get what they want. They're never corrected.

00:47:41.600 just at an individual level, that child is going to be a monster. And not just at the heart level,

00:47:47.100 because every person, again, apart from saving faith in Christ, apart from being given a new

00:47:52.080 heart, we're all monsters at the level of the heart inwardly. But that monstrous heart is going

00:47:57.640 to be on full display. Now, what happens if it's that vintage foolishness, if it's not just an 0.84

00:48:05.920 individual child, but that child is not just five years of neglect, of discipline and correction,

00:48:11.600 But it's 50 years and now they're a grown older adult and not just one individual, but

00:48:19.120 generationally, right?

00:48:20.800 What if there was one type of person that they weren't corrected and then they trained

00:48:26.600 and society trained their posterity not to be corrected and theirs not to be, what would

00:48:32.820 that be? 1.00

00:48:33.280 That would be women. 1.00

00:48:34.580 They're called women. 1.00

00:48:36.280 That's what it is.

00:48:37.420 That is what we have done as men.

00:48:39.200 That's what the church has done.

00:48:40.080 So I'm not saying we're not responsible.

00:48:41.200 So my whole point is to say this, we're Calvinists, we understand the doctrine of total depravity, we understand the doctrine of concupiscence, we understand all these different things.

00:48:49.160 We are not saying that women are inherently more sinful than men.

00:48:53.120 What we are saying, though, is that in terms of outward manifestations of sinful behavior according to God's moral law, women have been, by and large, less checked by the church for generations, and that has an effect.

00:49:10.440 Would you agree with that, Eric? 0.90

00:49:12.020 Yeah, completely.

00:49:13.120 And in fact, you can find this in books like Leon Podol's book, The Church Impotent. 0.94

00:49:17.100 But for a long time, like centuries in the church, we've been teaching that women are 0.65

00:49:23.780 actually, it's the opposite of what we're saying, that women are actually more holy.

00:49:27.860 Women are more prone to be spiritual.

00:49:29.940 That's the assumption. 0.93

00:49:31.760 And you can actually read this.

00:49:33.160 And I've seen reformed pastors who kind of make statements where it's like, you know

00:49:38.040 what, if there's sin, it's always the man's fault.

00:49:39.980 And I think you have to be really careful because we do want to say ultimately the man needs to take responsibility for his household.

00:49:47.760 But if you, for example, if you approach every counseling situation and you walk into it saying, I don't care what's going on in this house, it's ultimately his fault.

00:49:56.680 Well, I mean, that's going to color the way you do the counseling.

00:50:00.040 And I think what we actually need to be aware of is, look, women have been told that they're 0.96

00:50:04.260 more spiritual, they're more prone, like they have a nature that is not only the opposite

00:50:09.460 of being more depraved, that they're more holy, right?

00:50:12.460 They've been kind of the spoiled kid, I think, culturally speaking, for a long time.

00:50:18.940 And so what's happened is they have that training.

00:50:22.020 Now, I think what is really cool is that when you get a healthy environment, when you get

00:50:26.420 preaching that is like Paul's. Like, think about Paul, where he goes through the list of sins,

00:50:31.700 you know, Ephesians 5 and 6, there's commands, there's commands that are specific to the sex,

00:50:37.700 meaning, you know, why do we have to tell fathers not to exasperate children? Well,

00:50:41.620 because fathers are prone to do that. Why do you have to, you know, some people have said this,

00:50:45.720 why is Paul only say there's a direction for women to be modest? Why isn't there a parallel

00:50:51.200 passage for men to be modest. Well, because that is a particularly feminine direction of sinning, 1.00

00:50:59.060 right? Women love to be lusted after. So Paul is being smart. He's saying, look, these are the 1.00

00:51:05.640 areas where you're prone to sin. And it's the same way if I have three boys and I don't address them

00:51:10.340 all 100% identically because I have to know the grain of each kid. And so I think in our address

00:51:17.660 to the people. We have to be the same way. Now today, I think, yeah, you're just going to have

00:51:21.780 to be realistic and say, you know, women have not been preached hard yet. And so we've got to some 0.95

00:51:28.860 extent, we've got to correct that problem. That doesn't mean that we're going to stop addressing

00:51:34.220 men's sins or anything like that. We're still calling men to be leaders in their home and to

00:51:38.740 take ultimate responsibility. Yes. But yeah, certainly to know the cultural milieu in which

00:51:43.640 all that's happening. Yeah, that's really good. And I like what you said in terms of like, you

00:51:49.200 know, Paul addressing one thing with women, and then, you know, it's almost like, you know,

00:51:53.500 a father addressing one thing with one of his kids, you know, and, you know, correcting one

00:51:57.820 of them. And then that kid responds by saying, well, you know, my brother, so why don't you

00:52:02.240 talk to him, you know, and my sister? Well, it doesn't work that way. We're right. This isn't

00:52:09.380 this egalitarian, steamrolled, androgynous, you know, kind of like, no, God has baked disparities

00:52:15.160 into the world, hierarchy into the world, differences, diversity, and diversity of

00:52:21.360 thought, diversity of giftings, and diversity of propensities, and vulnerabilities, and weaknesses,

00:52:28.460 and that's been baked into the world that God made, and that's, you know, with each individual

00:52:34.560 person, but also between gender. And so even like with the fruit of the spirit, I remember having

00:52:40.220 several members of the church when I was pastoring in California, very angry at me because I was

00:52:48.680 preaching on the fruit of the spirit. And I said that the fruit of the spirit are not genderless.

00:52:56.580 And I said that, you know, the fruit of the spirit, the fruit of the spirit is the manifestation of

00:53:02.200 the spirit. But the spirit, the third person of the Trinity, his characteristics, who he is,

00:53:11.120 manifest differently through a man and through a woman. And so basically what I was arguing is I

00:53:17.280 was trying to say, you know, when Jesus braids a whip out of cords in John chapter two and starts 0.66

00:53:23.660 beating people and throwing over the money changers tables, Jesus is modeling for us

00:53:29.680 perfectly self-control and gentleness. Self-control. So first, the fruit of the spirit,

00:53:36.940 it's not like a toolbox where I'm going to take out one fruit at a time. I'm going to take out a

00:53:41.420 hammer for this portion of the project. Then I'm going to put it back. I'm going to grab a

00:53:44.420 screwdriver. So right now I'm exercising love, but self-control is on the back burner. It's not

00:53:49.360 really in play. That's not the way that... No, Jesus was full of the spirit. He fully embodied

00:53:56.260 all of the Spirit, and therefore all the fruits of the Spirit, all the characteristics of the

00:54:01.960 Spirit were present in the life of Jesus at all times. So that means there was never a moment

00:54:07.760 where Jesus is not being loving. There's never a moment that he's not being self-controlled. There's

00:54:12.540 never a moment he's not being gentle, which means I say all that back to bring it back to gender and

00:54:17.700 the distinctions of the fruit of the Spirit in terms of their expressions in men and women.

00:54:21.340 And what that means is that apparently a man can, this would be some extenuating circumstances.

00:54:31.680 I'm not saying he can do it on a daily basis, but apparently it is possible for a man to

00:54:36.840 make a whip and to start lashing it at people without breaching the fruit of the spirit

00:54:43.420 that is self-control. 1.00

00:54:44.600 I don't believe, this is my view, but I don't believe that a woman could ever do that. 1.00

00:54:51.340 I don't believe that there would be a scenario, right? 1.00

00:54:53.840 In self-defense, that's different.

00:54:55.680 But Jesus is, he's the aggressor, for lack of a better word, in this scenario, right?

00:55:00.380 I mean, the true aggressors are those who are defiling his father's house.

00:55:03.340 But, you know, he's the one who makes it physical. 0.90

00:55:06.840 And my point is, I don't think there would ever be a scenario where a Christian woman 1.00

00:55:10.340 in a godly manner could initiate, you know, I'm going to take a whip into this den of 0.90

00:55:17.420 thieves and start rounding up the tables. Because men and women, self-control looks different in 1.00

00:55:23.760 women than it looks in men. Because that's one of the counters that I receive sometimes pastorally

00:55:29.100 over the years is people say, well, all nine are the fruit of the spirit, which first, I wouldn't

00:55:33.160 say it's an exhaustive list, but let's just go with that for a moment. All nine are the fruit

00:55:37.020 of the spirit are given to Christians, period, whether it's a Christian man or a Christian woman. 0.81

00:55:40.940 So both men and women are called to be self-controlled. Both men and women are called 0.71

00:55:45.940 to be gentle. And then what I would say is I would go over to Peter, 1 Peter 3, and say,

00:55:50.100 yeah, but why do you think that this is then reiterated specifically for women,

00:55:55.240 a quiet and gentle spirit? Well, men are called to gentleness because they're called to the fruit

00:55:59.900 of the Spirit, and one of the fruit of the Spirit is gentleness. Correct. Men are called to gentleness,

00:56:04.220 but quietness and gentleness being rooted together and being described as a chief characteristic of

00:56:11.840 beauty for a woman is different than the gentleness that a man is called to aspire to.

00:56:18.160 And I think that's a difficult theological concept for people to grasp, especially in

00:56:25.120 modern church settings where we've just steamrolled it all together.

00:56:30.420 And so we look at the fruit of the Spirit and we say, there's no distinction whatsoever

00:56:34.420 for how these are going to be expressed between men and women.

00:56:37.180 This is just the list.

00:56:38.760 And then we determine, and this list, if we're really going to be honest, this is more of

00:56:42.360 a feminine list than it is a masculine list, meaning that the spirit himself, yeah, he

00:56:46.780 is he, the Holy Spirit, but his qualities are really the qualities that are more naturally

00:56:52.720 embodied by a woman.

00:56:54.500 So really, what is the call to a Christian man? 0.90

00:56:57.060 It's to become more like a girl.

00:56:59.860 Yeah. 0.95

00:57:00.500 Yeah, no, I completely agree.

00:57:02.140 And I think part of it is like, okay, even when in, particularly like you see this in

00:57:05.940 the Latin. But when you say man, right, veer, courage, it's the same word for courage. So when

00:57:11.740 you're talking about masculinity and what it means to be a man, there's going to be certain traits

00:57:15.840 that are pretty intrinsic. This is why Joshua is being told repeatedly, like, have courage,

00:57:19.600 act like a man, have courage, like on repeat. You wouldn't hear necessarily the same things

00:57:25.120 said to a woman about what it means to be a woman, right? Like you said, it's generally

00:57:29.620 gentleness, quiet spirit. And that's because of the marriage relationship and her relationship

00:57:35.720 to her husband, which requires submission. He's called to lead, which is more of in the bent of 0.73

00:57:40.680 courage. She's called to submit and to help, which is really more in the bent of gentleness

00:57:46.980 and a soft spirit. And I would take all this back to those, right? So we're talking about husbands

00:57:52.020 and the difficulty in marriage counseling and stuff like that. Fundamental question that a lot

00:57:56.820 of people don't ask is, I was reading a book on modesty by Wendy Shallott. It's a pretty interesting

00:58:01.960 Jewish lady. And she says in there, though, she's like, every time I see like a woman being a whore, 1.00

00:58:08.220 I always say to the girl, where's your father? Does your father know what's going on? 1.00

00:58:14.680 You know, and people are like, oh, you're one of those patriarchy people. And she said,

00:58:18.600 what's so bad about belonging to someone who loves you? And it really struck me that the

00:58:24.840 question we're not asking a lot of women is where are their fathers? Who is the father that sent

00:58:30.220 them to college to live in a co-ed dorm and to fornicate and, and who let the mother give them

00:58:36.440 the birth control pill on their way out the door. Like, where is dad saying, put some clothes on?

00:58:41.400 You know, one of the first things that the father does, our father, after the fall into sin is he

00:58:48.460 sees fig leaves and he's like, no, no, no, you're going to go back upstairs and you're going to put

00:58:51.540 more clothes on. That is not acceptable. We don't tolerate that. There's, there's rules and there's

00:58:57.520 order. Well, this is the stuff of fathers. And I've said to the guys in the church here quite a

00:59:02.480 bit, when Paul tells Titus, there's disorder, there's chaos. And so what do you do in Crete

00:59:10.900 when you have disorder and chaos? He said, I want you to create order by appointing elders.

00:59:16.020 What are elders? They're the exemplary fathers in their community. So I've often said fathers

00:59:21.180 are God's instrument for creating order in a world of chaos, right? You are to rule the chaos.

00:59:28.540 You are to set boundaries for your girls just as much as your boys. But I think especially,

00:59:33.880 we talk about how fatherlessness impacts men, but I think so much of the feminism and the 1.00

00:59:39.760 destruction of society that's been brought on by the female sex, that too could just be traced 0.86

00:59:44.600 back to, where were the fathers? That's good. Well, so I feel thoroughly discouraged. 1.00

00:59:55.660 I've discouraged myself. You've discouraged me. We've discouraged each other. And this is kind

01:00:00.640 of right where you guys have left it with the King's Hall. You've left us in the midst of

01:00:04.520 discouragement, but I'd like to not do it here with Right Response Ministries. So I'm going to

01:00:08.360 ask you, I'm going to ask you, you know what, without, you know, without delving into a million

01:00:15.020 different things, what are just a couple of things that we could end on that would be hopeful? What

01:00:19.720 can we do? What can we do about this? Yeah. Well, I think a lot of it is, um, a lot of times when we

01:00:26.460 go into analysis mode, which, you know, I'm prone to do quite a bit, the reason that we have to

01:00:30.780 realize why we're doing it. And it's really like a diagnostic tool, right? We want to know what's

01:00:35.200 go wrong, what's gone wrong so that we can fix it. And I think that the other thing that I would

01:00:41.280 tell people is there's kind of two things that need to happen. One is like, you know, people

01:00:46.280 are like, yeah, the legal system needs to change. I'm like, okay, well, unless you're going to go

01:00:50.280 get a law degree and you're a millionaire and you're going to start funding some of these

01:00:53.740 efforts, I'm not really sure what me personally, I'm going to do about changing, you know, federal

01:00:59.580 law. It does need to be changed. And we need legions of people who are working on that. I

01:01:04.440 think that it is very true that, you know, really lawyers, whether you like it or not, lawyers today

01:01:11.800 are sort of like the front line. That's where the war is being fought. So certainly we need

01:01:15.680 Christian men and, you know, pushing forward that ball on the legal frontier. That's absolutely

01:01:21.660 true. But I think for the average guy, I think about this for myself. It's like, okay, again,

01:01:27.140 Jordan Peterson, clean your room. You know, you're worried about the legal structures,

01:01:31.200 but you're rude to your wife. You're worried about the legal structures. Well, start with 1.00

01:01:35.720 yourself. Start cultivating a gentle and quiet spirit. There's so many people I found in the

01:01:41.800 sort of like men going their own way, red pill, people that would even follow our stuff online.

01:01:48.360 It's like, okay, you're struggling. You've got the marriage issues. Kids don't respect you.

01:01:53.560 You're trying to figure this out. Well, okay. So which elders do you submit to? What are their

01:01:58.400 names? Where's your church? Is it a healthy community? Because honestly, Joel, if you don't

01:02:02.620 have that, I'm not really sure how you're going to make progress as a Christian being sanctified

01:02:08.180 in the word of God, because this is really what this comes down to, is people need regenerate

01:02:12.960 hearts. They need to be consuming God's word day and night. They need to build their life on the

01:02:18.400 rock, which again is the word of Christ, the law of Christ. We need to be starting there.

01:02:24.560 And so I think a lot of it is just, it's very, very actually simple, but it's the difficult

01:02:29.460 work of saying, well, you have to get your own life in order, right?

01:02:32.400 If you're a father, then you start, just look at the biblical roles for, you know, what

01:02:36.920 are you actually called to do?

01:02:38.980 And then you start walking those out and you have men around you, including your pastors

01:02:42.180 who hold you accountable to it.

01:02:44.500 And yeah, so I think that's the simplest way that I know to outline that.

01:02:48.900 What do you do?

01:02:49.480 And it is hopeful because we've seen it.

01:02:51.020 I mean, I'm sure you could say the same about your church community.

01:02:53.960 We can say it about refuge.

01:02:55.540 I know you can go to Moscow and say the same thing.

01:02:57.980 Because I've seen people repent, right?

01:03:00.840 We have pastors who will tell men who aren't working and their wives are, like, you're 0.99

01:03:04.960 being a loser. 0.98

01:03:06.180 You're supposed to be a provider. 1.00

01:03:07.520 What are you doing?

01:03:08.140 Go get a job.

01:03:09.420 And we've seen the fruit of it, and it is actually really good.

01:03:14.460 Yeah, all that is great.

01:03:17.020 Amen a thousand times.

01:03:18.260 But let me press on you for just a second, Eric, and then I'll let you go.

01:03:21.700 We'll close.

01:03:22.500 you said do start obeying these commands we can't just start you know it's not just top down right

01:03:27.980 it's not yet some of you may be called to be lawyers some of you are going to run for you

01:03:31.120 know civil office and these kinds of things and that's good we need christians and politics yeah

01:03:34.480 we need them in law we need all you know all of christ for all of life yes and amen a million

01:03:38.080 times every square inch but for most of us you're saying it starts at home just obeying these

01:03:43.620 commandments in your marriage with your children but then you you said something particular and i

01:03:47.980 agree with you a hundred percent, but you said, um, none of that's really going to happen. If you

01:03:52.120 don't belong to a church, who are your elders? Can you name them? Who are you submitted to?

01:03:56.700 And here's the email that I get all the time. And I know you do too.

01:04:00.120 Is, um, and, and so I, I, I want to hear from you cause I'm, I'm still kind of making up my

01:04:04.560 mind. I'm not sure what to think. Cause on one hand, right. So I'm a Calvinist and I'm a post

01:04:08.120 millennial at the same time, which is, uh, sometimes those two things conflict with one

01:04:11.380 another, you know, I'm a suspicious, you know, I'm suspiciously hopeful, you know? And, um,

01:04:16.040 And so I'm not really sure, you know, it's like the two, I've got the post mill angel on one shoulder and Calvin on the other, and I'm not sure who to listen to right now. But I get emails from guys saying, Joel, I agree with you a hundred percent. I cannot, as God is my witness, I've been driving a two hour radius, looking at churches for the last three years. I cannot find one church that would agree with what you and Eric have just said.

01:04:39.780 if i went in there with my marriage and we were having problems immediately every single church 1.00

01:04:44.260 i visited it would it would all be my fault there would be no correction towards women 0.96

01:04:48.180 none of that is in the preaching none of that is in the ethos none of that's in the community

01:04:51.880 my wife if i do go to church and i take my family to church i risk my wife being further reinforced

01:04:57.980 in feminism and turned by that church against me uh and and i continue to hear people say that

01:05:05.060 basically like the the pickings are so slim out there when it comes to godly churches especially

01:05:10.840 on this issue um that a lot of guys uh it's not like even necessarily just given up there's plenty 0.84

01:05:18.480 of losers who've given up and just black build and they're just they're out right and so i'm not

01:05:22.620 talking i'm in defense of the guys who haven't given up who are actually still striving to be 0.97

01:05:27.760 men but they're like i've got a better chance i'm and uh in leading my wife and protect i have to

01:05:33.200 protect it not just from the godless culture i have to protect it from churches and uh and and

01:05:38.560 you know i've got guys moving to our church i know you guys do you know we've got guys coming

01:05:41.820 from uh multiple people coming from canada who are now members in our church you know and then

01:05:46.940 and from other states you know from georgia and from um michigan and you know and all these

01:05:51.900 different things and of course california and oregon and um and they're coming one because

01:05:57.340 they want to get out of you know godless totalitarian places like canada and california

01:06:02.280 Oregon, you know, but, but they're also coming, you know, cause they could, you know, they

01:06:07.260 could, they don't, don't have to go to Georgetown, Texas, right.

01:06:09.920 There are a few other, you know, more conservative red, red state options that they could choose

01:06:14.360 from, but they're, they're going to Moscow.

01:06:15.840 They're going to Ogden.

01:06:17.120 They're going to Phoenix, Durban and James White.

01:06:19.780 And they're going to Georgetown, Texas, North of Austin with covenant Bible church where

01:06:24.220 I'm at.

01:06:24.820 And, and like, like, that's it.

01:06:27.660 Like I keep hearing for like that, you know, and I know there are a few others or they're

01:06:30.700 going to foster you know michael foster or dale you know but like but it's it's i'm sure you know

01:06:36.640 that's not an exhaustive list i'm sure we could come but it would still be a a short list if if

01:06:42.360 we listed every you know if we actually did the research um and so what do you say to to that guy

01:06:47.820 who's like all right like yeah i'm not going to change federal law and um and you know i'm not

01:06:52.820 going to do this i'm not going to do that you know it starts uh it starts at home starts with making

01:06:57.200 in my bed, but you just said that one of the key factors in doing those things as a husband and as

01:07:02.820 a father in my household that's going to lend towards my long-term success is being surrounded

01:07:08.100 by this church community, and where the heck do you find that? Yeah, I mean, in some sense, it is

01:07:15.960 a very difficult question, and you do have to take into account generally in those conversations.

01:07:20.940 You're right. Probably the biggest one that we get is, hey, here's my situation. What do I do

01:07:24.940 with my life. And I wish we had time to answer all of them. But I think what I can't even respond

01:07:31.360 to. Yeah, I can't even do that. But I think bottom line for me, when you're faced with a tough

01:07:36.820 decision, I always go back to core principles. Okay. I know from scripture, I don't have to

01:07:43.300 guess. I don't have to like divine the will of God in Mark Driscoll fashion. I don't have to do that.

01:07:49.920 I know what God says about church being participant in the body of Christ, having elders submitting

01:07:57.200 to them.

01:07:58.460 I know and have seen in my life how important, how vital, how essential that is.

01:08:03.740 Like if you want to live in a Christian, particularly as a Christian in a world that

01:08:07.600 is hostile to you and to the church, then you have to have brothers and sisters who

01:08:14.700 are not just Christians.

01:08:17.540 I mean, this is the thing.

01:08:18.340 I think there are a lot of churches in America that are Christian, but not necessarily pushing the ball forward, not missionally aligned, not really forming much of a resistance. This isn't the time to be a part of that, I don't think.

01:08:34.260 And I think that's why so many people are moving.

01:08:37.060 And that's what a lot of this comes down to.

01:08:38.720 I've been in those situations, too, where fundamentally I've said, look, we don't have that church.

01:08:45.380 We're in a community where I can't drive three hours to even find one.

01:08:50.580 Maybe it's not even in the same state as you.

01:08:53.720 And I basically came to the point where it's like, look, I do not want to live in Utah.

01:08:58.700 I do not like Utah. 1.00

01:09:00.360 I do not like a state that is run by Mormons. 1.00

01:09:02.680 I don't like the desert. I don't like that price of housing. And you go to many of our areas where 1.00

01:09:09.780 there's good churches. Texas is probably a little different, but Moscow, Ogden, not cheap places to

01:09:15.500 live. And I remember wrestling through this. And finally, I just said, look, here's the deal.

01:09:22.120 You want to see your generations raised up in faithfulness to the Lord? Well, I can't just give

01:09:28.460 into the status quo. And I think this is for men, especially, this is the part about what does it

01:09:33.140 mean to be a hero? Well, first of all, not everyone is one. And so to act heroically and courageously

01:09:38.760 and to be a man, you're going to have to do really hard things sometimes. And you're going to have to

01:09:42.760 make sacrifices. And Joel, I guess the thing I don't get with a lot of men is they're like, well,

01:09:47.460 yeah, but my business and my this and my that. And I'm like, okay, well, what are your kids'

01:09:51.320 souls worth to you? Right. What about your wife? What's the difference? What's the difference

01:09:58.100 between a wife who is in a community that she can flourish versus a community that she is

01:10:05.400 continually crippled by anxiety and bitterness and not being fed by the word of God.

01:10:12.700 Well, it's a big difference. And I mean, you look at the gospel commands. What did Jesus say? Like,

01:10:18.540 it's almost cliche because we've heard it so many times, you know, come and follow me.

01:10:23.100 And people are like, no, I got a house. I got to attend. No, I got my parents. I got the...

01:10:27.860 And I'm not saying businesses and houses and parents are a very real consideration, but I feel like in this moment, the stakes are so high that for me in my house, it was like, yeah, we're burning the boats.

01:10:40.460 Well, we may go down swinging, but we're going to give it our best effort.

01:10:44.720 We're not going to sit on our hands and we're not going to watch our family just deteriorate spiritually and just say, well, hopefully against all my foolishness, God just makes it work out.

01:10:55.440 yeah that's a great answer that's super helpful yeah i think uh i don't think there's any way

01:11:03.200 around it i think that's the the honest answer the honest answer is um yeah you're probably

01:11:08.140 gonna have to move and it's gonna be hard and it's gonna require sacrifice and at the end of

01:11:13.500 the day like what you're measuring because because you and i like we're not pietists like we believe

01:11:18.440 in business we believe in um and and all you know vocation and all those things matter they matter

01:11:25.500 immensely um but what we're talking about right now is we're not talking about pietism we're

01:11:30.760 talking about um we're talking about economics and markets and vocation and all these things

01:11:36.040 that mattered and land oh maybe you own land in a certain place where like and it's been in your

01:11:41.080 family you know what i mean like all we're talking about things that matter but and and we're not the

01:11:46.860 the kind of guys theologically that would cast shade and say those things don't matter. We're

01:11:50.780 not, um, poverty gospel, John Piper guys. So we're saying we see the weight and the worth of that,

01:11:57.460 but we're weighing it currently right now against the weight of your kids souls, the weight of your

01:12:03.440 marriage, your wife, whether she's going to stay with you or leave you because she's being

01:12:09.420 lobotomized and, and indoctrinated by like that. So we're, we're pro own, own land, own gun,

01:12:16.580 uh guns own uh multiple properties over time build wealth multiple different you know a man

01:12:22.820 who casts his bread seven times in the water diversify getting all these things vocation

01:12:26.860 work hard leave a legacy a dynasty don't be like the hobby lobby guy and give it to charity that's 0.99

01:12:31.860 stupid don't hate your children give it to them don't have a bumper sticker that says i'm spending 0.99

01:12:35.640 my children's inheritance that's wicked god hates that like so we are not the the overtly spiritual 1.00

01:12:42.100 pietistic you know um just give the global missions no like we're saying all that matters

01:12:47.120 and and we would give all that up for for the soul we're talking about the soul and and not

01:12:53.680 just our soul but the souls of our children and so if that's the situation you're in then yeah

01:12:57.800 men do hard things they they start another business they scrape by for a while you know

01:13:03.880 they they hustle they do you do whatever it takes and so i i really appreciate that you gave that

01:13:09.080 answer because i think that's the real answer that's the honest answer there is no i keep trying

01:13:13.860 to give people another answer but i'm just like that i think that's that's the answer some of

01:13:19.420 these guys a lot of these guys are literally they're just going to have to move they're going

01:13:22.860 to have to move yeah and a lot of them too joe i'm sure you're aware a lot of these situations

01:13:28.200 i'll hear from the same guys over like three years and they just remain in the same condition

01:13:32.220 And yeah, it is hard. For a lot of people, there's no easy answer. But again, yeah, that priority of spiritual health of your family has to be at the top of the list.

01:13:46.720 Amen. Well, this has been super helpful. I won't keep you any longer, but I just want to say thanks for coming on the show.

01:13:51.280 Tell our listeners one more time, you know, we kind of said it in the beginning, but one more time, what are some of the projects you're involved in, how they can be following you and how they can help support you and the Ogden Boys, your ministry?

01:14:00.880 Yeah, absolutely. So I am the CEO of New Christendom Press. That is my full-time

01:14:06.900 venture these days. And we've got a number of things under that banner, which include Bright

01:14:11.740 Hearth podcast with Brian and Lexi Sauve. We've got the Hardman podcast. And then of course,

01:14:16.640 the Kings Hall podcast. And people can definitely follow along, support us on Patreon on all those

01:14:22.360 channels. And we're kind of everywhere with that. But yeah, if you go to kingshall.com or

01:14:27.740 New Christendom Press or erickahn.com. You can find any one of us and kind of follow along.

01:14:33.800 Great. All right, Eric, thanks for coming on the show. I appreciate it, man.

01:14:37.380 Awesome. Thanks, Joel. I appreciate it, brother.

01:14:39.240 Can I be frank with you for just a second right here at the end? Look, some of you guys,

01:14:43.740 you're financially supporting this ministry, and from the bottom of my heart, I say thank you. I

01:14:49.140 cannot thank you enough. However, some of you, you just can't afford it. In fact, some of you,

01:14:56.480 you shouldn't afford it. Let's be honest. I mean, we're living in Joe Biden's ridiculous economy.

01:15:03.220 Our nation and our totalitarian political elites lost their minds over the last three years 0.91

01:15:11.360 due to COVID. We have written checks that we simply cannot cash. It doesn't matter if people

01:15:18.280 change the definition of a recession. We are living in a recession right now regardless.

01:15:24.520 Some of you are struggling to afford a carton of eggs at the grocery store

01:15:29.740 You cannot support financially this ministry at this time, nor should you

01:15:35.300 But you could still help us tremendously

01:15:38.160 I am asking you, please, if you're willing to do so

01:15:42.040 Take one minute of your time

01:15:44.220 Leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform

01:15:48.760 iTunes, Spotify, whatever that might be

01:15:51.700 This is the way the system works

01:15:53.880 We want to be innocent as doves, but shrewd as vipers.

01:15:58.400 We need to be strategic.

01:16:00.260 You leave us a five-star review, and our podcast shows up for more people.

01:16:05.240 And the Word of God and courageous theology applied in practical ways to every realm of

01:16:12.000 life gets out there.

01:16:14.100 Help us get it out there.

01:16:15.780 Thanks for tuning in.

The NXR Podcast - February 14, 2023

THEOLOGY APPLIED - Pastors Who Won’t Rebuke Women Are Pastors Who Hate Women ｜ with Eric Conn

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript