The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - The 3 Most Dangerous Cults In America

00:00:00.000 On this episode of Theology Applied, I was privileged to have both Andrew and Jeremiah, the co-host of the podcast called Cultish.

00:00:08.400 We actually took our interview and broke it up into two parts. This is the second part.

00:00:13.000 The first part, we dealt with identifying cults.

00:00:16.420 In this part, we deal with the three most dangerous cults here in America today. Enjoy.

00:00:24.040 Applying God's Word to every aspect of life.

00:00:26.680 This is Theology Applied.

00:00:30.000 what would you say are maybe three and if you have you know maybe just two or if you have four

00:00:38.940 feel free to add another one but three of the most dangerous cults in america today and i know

00:00:44.980 that word dangerous is somewhat subjective maybe it's spiritual danger maybe it's physical danger

00:00:49.840 or however you interpret that but three of the most dangerous cults that you're aware of in our

00:00:55.120 nation today? Andrew, I'm going to give you the first one. All right. So number one. Okay. I guess

00:01:02.960 I would say my brain instantly, just because I'm so deep into it right now, it's the Latter-day

00:01:09.140 Saints, but I don't want to just go there. I'm thinking more of the cult of secularism or the

00:01:16.220 cult of Darwinianism, the cult of a system of government that doesn't bow its knee to Christ

00:01:23.840 in all aspects and areas of life um that that worldview right babble in itself um that man

00:01:31.800 is autonomous uh in free thinking and that uh we came from highly evolved apes uh i believe that

00:01:40.600 the presuppositions involved with that worldview are far more dangerous when you take it to the

00:01:45.280 furthest implications than many of the other we'll say more predominant uh mainstream cults

00:01:52.380 because it's the worldview that leads to Stalin.

00:01:56.160 It's the worldview that leads to all kinds of horrors

00:02:01.020 that have happened in the past

00:02:01.940 that somehow people have forgotten nowadays.

00:02:05.120 Vanity, as Solomon would say, it's all vanity.

00:02:08.400 So I would say that that is probably

00:02:10.740 the most dangerous worldview right now.

00:02:13.180 And we're seeing the fruits of it in our own nation

00:02:15.300 as we face the judgment of God

00:02:17.900 from falling prey to that worldview.

00:02:21.260 yeah um i would say the dangerous there's a dualism between uh political cults right now

00:02:28.660 in our culture that's incredibly dangerous one everyone always is thinking about what's going

00:02:33.900 on with leftism with the left uh you know you think about what's going on right now with pride

00:02:38.960 month and it seems like every single year it gets taken to the next level in regards to what gets

00:02:44.380 celebrated what is on the table and so forth and so on but then the counter the counter to that is

00:02:51.600 really i think it's equally as dangerous and deadly it's a secular conservatism because within

00:02:57.340 that you see a lot of people who just kind of hold to these arbitrary vague conservative values of

00:03:04.180 different um yeah i think these vagative uh it's vague conservative values and so they they don't

00:03:12.940 give an ultimate accounting as to why this is an issue to begin with so i would i would give an

00:03:18.000 example uh the whole situation i haven't really followed it the olympics are happening right now

00:03:23.260 are the olympics happening i guess i guess i guess it's happening but there was um there was

00:03:29.000 i guess some lady who got third place was not was sort of like looking disgruntled for the national

00:03:35.640 anthem right and all you know not everyone on the conservative side is all like up and up and

00:03:42.300 arms about it and like you what you you don't kneel you you stand for the flag you stand for

00:03:47.920 the anthem and i'm hearing that i'm saying like oh you worship the state like you better worship

00:03:52.200 the state no matter what and so for me as a christian i honestly struggled with that i mean

00:03:57.520 i think honestly like you're you should go if you're if you're going to represent a country

00:04:03.480 whatever country you are you're representing the country and like i would want to be respectful

00:04:07.980 in the same way if i was on a field trip uh my creative agency we're going to we're working for

00:04:14.300 a cycling company based in california so i want to be on my best behavior to make that company

00:04:19.060 look good because that's just that's my role so i think there's a matter of general principle in

00:04:24.700 that but to be able to say like no you need to stand for the flag you need to do this well

00:04:29.980 ultimately there's one person that i'm accountable to which is christ and i'm going to stand i'm

00:04:36.280 going to bow the knee to christ and do that before i stand before any flag and so i think

00:04:40.580 one of the main problems is that a lot of the people who are appealing to the conservative

00:04:44.940 values aren't rest aren't vesting in the ultimate source of where those values originally came from

00:04:51.620 which is biblical truth so i think in that sense and then i think one of the most dangerous uh

00:04:57.840 things today is really the uh really the new age and the occult i think just because in many ways

00:05:05.780 it's kind of the new atheism, because as you can see, especially at Pride Month, you can see that

00:05:10.920 we are in a complete freefall as far as ethics, Western civilization goes. And as we become more

00:05:21.840 secular, there's still this huge hole and vacuum that gets created in regards to people just having

00:05:29.340 that spiritual void that they're desperate to fill it up. And I think typically in times past,

00:05:35.780 you know, during the dark ages and such, you'd see the resurgence of all sorts of different

00:05:39.600 paganism. But now I think with the very quick fast food spirituality, and where you don't

00:05:47.200 really have to have a whole organization that the truth is within you, you don't have to start a

00:05:52.440 church or to start a religion. So I think you have you have that combined with the tick tock

00:05:57.980 influencer mentality, where you can get millions of followers, you know, young kids who are 18 to

00:06:03.580 20 years old even younger than that who are can use that as a catalyst for influence it's it's

00:06:10.220 really a powder keg a a field full of dry it's a it's a forest full of dried pine needles for miles

00:06:18.700 on end just waiting for a spark to happen that's one of the biggest dangers and that's why i think

00:06:24.620 having shows like cultish and being able to partner with people like steven bancars and

00:06:29.540 other people to be able to get the hope of the gospel out to people in oh we're still here

00:06:37.580 minimize uh yeah into the world of cults uh and the occult i think that's a huge need so yeah i

00:06:43.820 would just say uh definitely both the left leftism and secular conservatism it's a really deadly

00:06:50.060 dualism um you know like a lot of people on the left and i don't know to go super political here

00:06:57.140 But even on the conservative side, people are looking right now like Donald Trump is not the hope that we have for Western civilization.

00:07:06.440 I'm sorry to say it. Yeah, he might do better than other people in there.

00:07:11.100 I mean, he can formulate complete sentences. So he has that going for him.

00:07:15.380 But, yeah, ultimately, he's he's not the savior. He's not the ultimate standard.

00:07:19.720 I think a lot of people are just sort of viewing him still as he is the hope and the savior, you know, and it's just that.

00:07:26.360 that was one of the concerns too i guess he had a recent rally like in ohio or somewhere like that

00:07:30.420 and it was just a ridiculous amount of people showed up for one of his rallies which is totally

00:07:34.400 okay like i would go to one no problem but i think for a lot of people would troll me like this is

00:07:39.640 their vested hope it's like my hope is built nothing less than donald whatever would rhyme

00:07:45.760 with that so um but anyways those those would be my two of mine for sure yeah no that's helpful

00:07:53.800 So the secular, I like what you said, Andrew.

00:07:56.140 So you said, you know, secularism, because a lot of people don't think of that as a cult.

00:07:59.320 So I really appreciate you kind of leading off with that answer, because it is a cult, you know, that we climbed out of some primordial soup and we're apes.

00:08:08.220 And like, it's crazy.

00:08:09.560 It's just as crazy as any other cult out there.

00:08:12.080 And at some point, you know, as often as the secularist, you know, points to the Christians, says, you know, the Crusades, the Crusades, the Crusades.

00:08:20.380 At some point, they got to own up to Mao. 0.50

00:08:22.840 You're right.

00:08:23.440 when is secularism going to own up

00:08:25.760 because for every person that was killed

00:08:27.860 in the name of Christianity, we know that that wasn't

00:08:29.740 true Christianity 0.81

00:08:30.620 but for everyone who was killed

00:08:33.300 and it gets counted to the number

00:08:35.520 of Christian casualties

00:08:37.200 I mean 1.00

00:08:39.380 it's a hundred times

00:08:41.180 a hundred fold, a thousand fold

00:08:42.960 because of secularism, the world view

00:08:45.440 promotes, if I'm bigger

00:08:47.700 than you, you have something I want

00:08:49.420 I take it, why would I not

00:08:51.400 And I appreciate you, Jeremiah, throwing in, I actually would push back, I'll push back a little bit real quick. But the, you know, the conservative secular, because you're right, that's absolutely, absolutely exists. I personally, now I could be wrong, I personally don't see it as dangerous as the full blown leftist secular.

00:09:11.260 I see it as just the seeds, in my opinion, of I see the conservative secularist as just a as as a leftist secularist in embryo.

00:09:22.960 You know what I mean? So I see because really, I think that that's what happens.

00:09:27.280 Somebody once said that, you know, one generation believes the gospel, the next assumes the gospel, the next neglects the gospel and the next rejects the gospel.

00:09:36.080 And I think that if you look at generations and what is happening, you know, we have the greatest generation and they suffer.

00:09:41.260 Did they, you know, sometimes I think, you know, we either need revival or America just needs another war, like like a big one, you know, because that's that tends to be what purifies nations and brings them back right now.

00:09:52.940 There's just there's so much comfort, so much ease that you just you just start whining and complaining about everything.

00:10:00.020 And it's really all on the shoulders of privilege, not white privilege, but just privilege.

00:10:04.700 And so, you know, so anyways, all that being said, I think that, you know, you look at generations.

00:10:09.000 I just listened to Ali Bestucki. She had a guest today and, um, and, you know, talking about the

00:10:14.180 boomer generation, this, this woman, she wrote a book on the boomer generation and how they really

00:10:18.600 messed everything up, you know, with the 1960s and all these things. And, and, uh, and what they did 0.93

00:10:23.100 was they took for granted everything that was given to them by the greatest generation, by their

00:10:26.540 parents. Um, and then they were, they were very anti institution, you know, and they broke down

00:10:31.600 institutions. And so I see like the secularist conservative, somebody like, um, I won't push

00:10:36.060 Shapiro there, um, just because I, I know that he's not a Christian and I pray that, that God

00:10:40.440 saves him. Um, but he's not a secularist in the sense that he's an Orthodox Jew, but let's say

00:10:44.540 like Peterson, Jordan Peterson or somebody like that. I see them as like at best a calming grace

00:10:50.600 expression, um, that I'm grateful for. Um, but in reality, give it time, right? The seeds will grow

00:10:57.440 in time. Uh, there are people who are hanging really good things, God things in midair, but

00:11:03.780 there's no found date and it's just you know i mean and it just it won't hold and so you have a

00:11:08.940 generation that that that believes the gospel believes the christian worldview believes the

00:11:13.500 law of god all these kinds of things um and then and then you have a a generation that accepts it

00:11:19.320 but but they but it's not with conviction it's assumed and then the next generation neglects

00:11:25.060 and then eventually it's just that full-on rejection and i feel like i would say like

00:11:29.240 Greatest generation believed, I would say boomers assumed, and I would say we're now experiencing kind of, you know, Gen X and, you know, and millennia like this, this neglecting with some and, and then now outright rejection.

00:11:42.220 And so I see the conservative secularist, what you're saying, Jeremiah, is not necessarily the enemy, but they're the ones who ultimately manufacture the enemy by giving people the what. 0.53

00:11:57.040 This is the good what.

00:11:58.040 This is what you should do and what you – but they don't give the why.

00:12:02.200 And it just doesn't work.

00:12:03.700 You have to ground it in the worldview.

00:12:06.540 And Jordan Peterson, brilliant as he may be, at the end of the day, with every one of his lectures, I'm astounded by his brilliance, the way that he can speak.

00:12:17.740 But if I was ever there in the audience, I would just say, why?

00:12:21.580 That would be my question at the end of every single lecture is, okay, all that sounds really good.

00:12:26.760 What you said is good.

00:12:28.480 But why?

00:12:29.600 If Jesus isn't Lord, which is the most political statement we could ever make, so that Christianity does deal with politics.

00:12:35.720 If Jesus isn't Lord and people are not his image-bearing creatures and there's not a law of God, a God in heaven who will judge both the quick and the dead, then why?

00:12:47.700 And there's no real answer for that apart from the Christian worldview. 0.92

00:12:51.900 And so I agree with you.

00:12:54.320 The secularists, I thought that was fantastic.

00:12:56.160 And I agree with you also, Jeremiah, with the conservative secularists.

00:12:59.200 I personally don't think they're quite as dangerous, but I just think that the conservative secularist is just a generation away from being the progressive.

00:13:06.680 Yeah, and I totally get and appreciate what you're saying for sure. I think just one thing just for clarification would be where the danger I would see where a secular conservative would appeal to just the sort of generic values we're not really dealing with ultimately where they come from.

00:13:29.600 And I'll give you an example. There's a guy who's a big influencer. His name is Officer Tatum.

00:13:35.900 And like his YouTube channel is great. I enjoy it. He's always talking about different.

00:13:41.560 He's a foreign police officer and he kind of deals with he's also a foreign black police officer.

00:13:47.360 So he has a very unique vantage point as a black conservative talking about a lot, especially he got a big a lot of notoriety back last year during the BLM riots and a lot of the different shootings that took place.

00:13:58.900 what happened with george floyd however he's oneness apostolic he adamantly denies the trinity

00:14:04.880 and the deity of christ there was someone he did a live stream where i believe he challenged he was

00:14:12.320 giving a challenge for anyone to like prove the trinity or the jesus was the eternal god in human

00:14:17.560 flesh or something of that nature i wish i could find i can't i'll have to look up and find it but

00:14:23.080 some guy found out about it and he wasn't even on instagram but he opened up an instagram account

00:14:29.440 just to be able to go on to his live stream and challenged him so he brought him on hundreds of

00:14:35.560 people were listening in and they have this big debate and you could hear that like when you

00:14:40.820 started getting pushed on what scripture adamantly says about who christ is in regards to being the

00:14:47.200 eternal god and knowing the ramifications of christ giving the contingencies of eternal life

00:14:52.360 and believing maybe struggle with but not adamantly rejecting that he's he's the eternal god that

00:14:59.340 eternal life is contingent upon that he's someone at this point in time it seems like he was

00:15:04.200 rejecting it and the same thing too is someone like glenn beck and i've always appreciated a

00:15:08.600 lot of his show and he's a really funny guy and he's i think there's a lot of good that he

00:15:12.340 contributes but ultimately if glenn beck believes in the gospel of mormonism you know some people

00:15:19.720 are saved and spy the mormon church but if he believes in the gospel mormonism like that's a

00:15:24.300 false gospel and someone and you can't you can't clothe yourselves in the robes of conservative

00:15:32.920 values or the constitution the only way you ultimately have for people god is through is

00:15:38.820 through the righteousness of christ so that's that's where a way i would i would say that i

00:15:44.160 think part of the reason of sort of makes like calling them equals is to kind of like force

00:15:48.120 people to think kind of it's kind of sort of separated out I agree that's that's really good

00:15:56.100 I just had a mental picture of like you know Ben Shapiro on on the day of judgment wearing the

00:16:01.220 constitution instead of just not it's just I love Ben come on Ben you just you gotta love Jesus you

00:16:09.080 gotta submit to Christ um no you know what I think you're right you know as you were as you

00:16:15.060 were talking i think you i you were persuasive i think that was compelling and it just it got me

00:16:19.620 thinking that you know i think the leftist secularist i i would i would put them if we

00:16:23.660 you know you watch those shows like uh 50 deadliest animals you know so if we were doing that right

00:16:27.720 now 50 deadly deadliest cults i i think i would put the leftist secularism number one i think you

00:16:32.220 nailed that andrew but then jeremiah you got me thinking i i think i probably put number two um

00:16:37.760 new age and and a cult that was really good what you said on that and so i don't want to just

00:16:41.760 gloss over and i like what you said like the um the powder keg with you know with you know 18

00:16:47.260 year olds without even a fully developed mind and a tick tock with a million viewers you know and

00:16:51.740 and that it it can multiply it can spread so quickly because it doesn't need an order right

00:16:56.320 it doesn't need an organization institution it's just because you have the revelation so that was

00:17:00.200 super helpful so maybe put that at number two and then number three i still don't know if i'd give

00:17:05.660 it number three but i agree with you in this you won me over on this that the the conservative the

00:17:11.200 secular conservative if nothing else it is dangerous right because that was kind of the

00:17:15.000 original question if nothing else it is dangerous because it it seeks to persuade people that you

00:17:19.680 can have good without god and that is a lie and uh and and so it's dangerous in the sense not

00:17:27.120 necessarily that it that it ruins empires and nations and those you know but what it does is

00:17:33.120 it gives people a allegedly good and wholesome and comfortable life on their way to hell

00:17:38.940 for each other you know what i mean and and so in that sense it is utterly dangerous so

00:17:44.760 touche so fair enough okay you guys are talking about this it was making me think of something

00:17:49.720 uh go for it yeah so the secular conservatism reminded me essentially of the israelites when

00:17:55.140 they're getting led through the red sea and after they come out to the red sea we're going to mount

00:17:59.160 sinai and then we know we all know the story they end up you know fashioning a golden calf from all

00:18:05.620 the gold that they plundered from the egyptians and they worshiped that so the secular conservatism

00:18:10.020 it's like we god brought us through an area right we have his law we have um the way he wants to

00:18:16.140 institute government which was given to us in the bible war the way we at least try to find

00:18:20.480 conservatism in general what are we trying to conserve right and nowadays it seems like the

00:18:26.060 conservatism is the worship of the golden calf it's like we have these these values but we forgot

00:18:31.660 who the god was that led us out of the through the red sea right and out of captivity and we go

00:18:37.700 back to the pagan to try to make sense of all that that is around us that's that's why i see 0.59

00:18:42.720 it's dangerous because we know the lord hates misplaced worship and um i i find like that's

00:18:47.800 what it leads to in a sense so you guys just have my brain thinking about that you're right no it's

00:18:52.040 good that's good well guys i really appreciate your time i know that you've probably already

00:18:56.080 given me enough any final i'll give you guys the last word any final thoughts that you'd like to add

00:18:59.800 um no i just think that uh this topic is incredible is incredibly unique uh it's very

00:19:06.940 unique place that we've been placed in i think especially if you are a christian it's real i

00:19:12.180 would say if you don't have it get uh dr walton martin's kingdom of the cults i would say just

00:19:16.980 look up his lecture listen to his lectures online he was really speaking about a lot of these

00:19:22.680 different new cults uh new uh religions uh things in regards to ufos extrasensory perception he was

00:19:31.320 so ahead of its time i guess they get king of the cults just look just start listening to his

00:19:36.460 lectures on youtube like get equipped because this is the the kingdom of the cults is only going to

00:19:42.180 explode uh given the state of the world right now i mean historically cults have always exploded

00:19:47.520 during times of uncertainty and if any if 2020 that was one thing i thought through i said i

00:19:54.160 don't know where this is all headed but this is just going to be the fault the nuclear fallout

00:19:59.680 of all this is going to be just a plethora of brand new cult leaders as you mentioned a long

00:20:06.860 time ago a bunch of little jim jones is like running around and as christians we need to be

00:20:13.240 able to give an apologetic and give an answer for people. Otherwise they may end up face down

00:20:19.700 somewhere else, another jungle and another Jonestown. So this is serious stuff. We have

00:20:24.800 the slogan and the teacher about theology hurts people. What is a serious thing? No, outside of

00:20:30.300 just the show, I'm a deacon and I've had to sit on meetings and hearing horrific stories of people

00:20:36.940 who've gone through horrific spiritual abuse. And, you know, you see that the wherewithal,

00:20:41.560 like this is like this is serious this is a serious game this is not something to play around

00:20:47.640 with there's a reason you know when you think about the apologetic answer in first peter 3 15

00:20:53.760 you know give an answer for everyone the hope that is in need but with with weak with meekness

00:20:58.200 gentleness and compassion or reverence the way that it says it and respect is that that's really

00:21:03.900 like that that's like the warning that's the warning on a desert the desert eagle has a warning

00:21:08.540 label and that's really what it is i mean that's you're wielding something that's powerful and you

00:21:14.820 need to do it with carefulness as well too and there's and that's what the cult leaders do they

00:21:18.840 they ignore the instructions they wield it in a way uh that the instructions don't say and it

00:21:24.300 harms people so as christians we have even more of a responsibility to do it in the correct way so

00:21:29.660 those are my thoughts anything else you have to say no brother that was that was beautiful

00:21:34.300 That's good.

00:21:34.940 Great.

00:21:35.480 Great, guys.

00:21:36.100 Thanks so much for coming on the show.

00:21:37.440 I really appreciate it.

00:21:38.380 God bless.

00:21:39.340 Awesome, man.

00:21:39.860 God bless you, too.

00:21:40.420 Thank you, man.

00:21:41.220 Awesome.

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The NXR Podcast - August 11, 2021

THEOLOGY APPLIED - The 3 Most Dangerous Cults In America

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