The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - The Demonic Origins Of New Ageism And Yoga

00:00:00.500 Applying God's Word to every aspect of life.

00:00:03.880 This is Theology Applied.

00:00:11.060 All right, this is Pastor Joel Webin

00:00:12.840 with another episode of Theology Applied.

00:00:16.120 Today we have as a very special guest, Doreen Virtue.

00:00:20.200 We're gonna be talking about New Ageism.

00:00:22.960 And she has come out of the New Age movement,

00:00:25.500 used to not only be a connoisseur,

00:00:27.320 but a leader in the movement.

00:00:28.600 and God has done a remarkable work in her life.

00:00:31.740 She helps many people in that movement

00:00:35.060 and Christians who have come out of that

00:00:36.900 as a discernment minister of sorts,

00:00:39.540 very similar to things that Costi Hinn or Justin Peters would do,

00:00:44.060 helping people recognize false teachings

00:00:47.060 that are often so subtle and creep into even the church.

00:00:51.380 And so that's some of what I'd love to talk about today.

00:00:53.480 So without further ado, Doreen Virtue,

00:00:56.000 would you just tell us a little bit about yourself

00:00:57.700 and maybe even a little bit of your testimony

00:00:59.680 and how Christ saved you.

00:01:01.920 Absolutely.

00:01:02.640 Thank you, Pastor Joel.

00:01:03.820 Thank you, everyone at Right Response Ministries.

00:01:06.020 It's an honor to be with you.

00:01:07.520 And it is a miracle that I'm saved.

00:01:10.160 I mean, all salvation is a miracle,

00:01:11.920 but I was a very hard case.

00:01:14.680 I was raised in Christian science

00:01:16.820 with just the heresy that Jesus is just a man,

00:01:21.460 a role model, and that's what I believed.

00:01:24.640 And yet my mother told my family

00:01:26.580 that we were christians we always had a king james bible on the shelf we would read from it

00:01:31.720 we went to church every sunday testimony meetings on wednesdays and then as an adult

00:01:36.780 i segued right into the new age which is basically it's all gnosticism christian science is

00:01:42.860 gnosticism new age is gnosticism and it borrows from all different cultures it borrows from

00:01:49.920 hinduism from shamanic you know native american spirituality from ancient celtic spirituality

00:01:56.400 you name it and it puts a little bit of christianity and also mystical catholicism in it

00:02:02.100 and so uh i was always identified myself as a christian i called myself an open-minded christian

00:02:09.940 i thought of born-again christians as being fear-based negative uh they were asleep and we

00:02:16.660 were woke and and i would listen to christian radio and then i would also listen to hindu

00:02:22.580 gurus you know i was mixing trying to mix all this and they don't mix of course

00:02:27.740 that's my main message today uh and i i heard an alistair beg sermon in january 2015 that pierced

00:02:34.980 me and uh and really started um my road to sanctification and salvation uh he was doing

00:02:41.980 an expository sermon on second timothy four that in the end times people will want their their

00:02:47.880 itching ears tickled by false pastors false teachers and and he he listed out what a false

00:02:54.140 teacher was and it just it got me i he was talking about me and i realized i was a false teacher

00:03:01.140 i went home and told my husband i said you know let's go to church and not not a new age church

00:03:07.160 like we've been going to let's go to a real church i called it and uh that was what really what what

00:03:14.180 saved me was reading the bible and when i got to deuteronomy 18 10 through 12 the the list of

00:03:21.320 things that moses listed that the israelites were not to do as they went into canaan um

00:03:29.580 they were he was describing me and all of the the methods i was using mediumship divination

00:03:37.820 interpreting omens and so then of course Deuteronomy 18 says God finds people who do 0.98

00:03:46.220 those things an abomination detestable and I had thought like most new agers you talk to will say 0.98

00:03:53.340 that they're doing God's work they don't know God I didn't know God in new age you think God is an 0.93

00:04:00.120 energy um you think of him as the universe and and so i i thought i was doing god's work because

00:04:08.140 people in the new age always told me that i was comforting them i was very accurate

00:04:12.200 and to find out i was actually the opposite that i was an abomination to god just broke me

00:04:17.860 like i needed to be broken humbled me to just the dirt and i got on my knees and i repented

00:04:25.420 right then and i just said i don't know what i'm doing obviously please lord jesus take take over

00:04:30.880 my life be my lord and savior and i renounced the new age i got fired by my publisher i was the top

00:04:37.420 selling new age author at that time wow not to brag but i i was we taught and i was touring with

00:04:44.580 all the same uh new age teachers for two decades you know wayne dyer louise hay deepak chopra

00:04:51.820 marion williamson the guy who wrote conversations with god the the person who who was kind of the

00:04:58.480 kingpin of the secret the law of attraction all these people were friends you know i was touring

00:05:04.880 with them and just walked away from all that i had a big ranch in hawaii 50 acres my husband and i

00:05:12.580 just left it and moved to the pacific northwest with my parents and my mother-in-law so we got

00:05:18.800 a few houses that were together under one roof and and then uh it's just it's been it's been an 0.98

00:05:26.400 interesting ride being a christian it's not right that's for sure yeah it's cost you something

00:05:32.100 it's actually cost you something you had to well because you were you were going against god

00:05:37.840 and you were accumulating you know fame and fortune and those kinds of things and but it i

00:05:43.520 I love your testimony because a lot of times there's people who are in the church who would profess to be Christians and perhaps they're an immature believer, but they've never had a real reckoning with the severity of their own sin.

00:05:57.640 They've never come to see their sin as heinous as it is in the sight of God.

00:06:01.860 And I love how you said that it's not just these practices of divination that God detests, but the people who actually practice them.

00:06:09.380 And so I'm always, as a pastor, reminding people when I'm preaching that forever in hell, God will not be punishing the entity of lust.

00:06:18.360 He will be punishing adulterers.

00:06:20.440 He's not going to be punishing the entity or the spirit of murder, but murderers.

00:06:25.420 It is not just the sin, but the sinner that God abhors. 0.50

00:06:29.420 And to realize that is coming into Christianity, especially if you've been going against God, it gets worse before it gets better. 0.50

00:06:41.740 There's that immediate peace and relief of being adopted as his son or daughter, but it's costly. 0.86

00:06:48.440 It's painful.

00:06:49.040 When the Lord reveals your sin to you, it cuts.

00:06:52.700 When Peter was preaching in the New Testament, in the book of Acts, it cut men to the heart.

00:06:58.580 It's painful.

00:06:59.420 but it's but it's worth it so yeah I always say to people it's not easy but it's necessary

00:07:06.760 yes yeah I think Charles Spurgeon used to say a man cannot appreciate the beauty of Christ until

00:07:13.480 he first comes to see the necessity of Christ and really seeing the necessity of Christ much

00:07:19.080 of that is contingent upon seeing the severity of our sin people won't appreciate you know the

00:07:24.840 beauty of the good news of the gospel unless they have really come to terms with the bad news of

00:07:30.880 sin. So, well, go ahead, go ahead. That's what you're saying. I completely agree with, of course,

00:07:39.380 is the opposite of what New Age teaches. New Age, a lot of New Agers are women, first of all,

00:07:45.680 it's probably 90% women, and a lot of broken women from trauma, abuse, abandonment, and the 0.76

00:07:54.080 New Age seems like a promise of propping you up.

00:07:57.520 It offers healing, promises of healing.

00:08:00.200 It offers promises of soulmate love.

00:08:03.480 It offers promises of life, purpose, career, abundance.

00:08:08.260 It's very much focused on money.

00:08:10.880 And it offers all these promises.

00:08:12.980 It's just Genesis 3.

00:08:15.100 Expand it.

00:08:16.700 And so people get into the New Age because they feel bad about themselves.

00:08:20.380 A lot of the people I met who were at my workshops were people who told me they were recovering Catholics or former Protestants who felt like the church was beating them up with all fire and damnation.

00:08:34.140 Right.

00:08:34.260 But now I see that it's, when I go to church, you know, when we're visiting different cities, of course, my husband and I are Reformed Baptists now.

00:08:44.260 But when we visit.

00:08:45.420 So are we. 0.51

00:08:45.840 Yeah, we visit sometimes, you know, just an evangelical church, and we're shocked at how lukewarm it is.

00:08:56.920 It's basically the new age.

00:08:58.820 So that's one of the reasons I spend almost every day warning people that the new age has crept into the church.

00:09:05.640 And it's very dangerous.

00:09:07.700 It's leading people away from the true Jesus and into the prophesied false Christ.

00:09:13.600 I apologize for my dog.

00:09:14.900 It's okay.

00:09:16.500 It's okay.

00:09:17.280 So you said that a lot of people who seem to,

00:09:21.180 the new age seems to be appealing to them,

00:09:23.240 attractive to them.

00:09:24.540 It's less about them looking for a savior 0.88

00:09:26.980 because they actually recognize themselves to be a sinner,

00:09:30.040 but it's more so wanting to be saved

00:09:31.920 from their feelings of guilt,

00:09:34.440 their feelings of insignificance.

00:09:37.460 It's wanting abundance.

00:09:38.660 It's wanting fulfillment, significance, importance, value.

00:09:42.380 And so it seems like the New Age almost preys on people who have heard the gospel and have heard true biblical preaching, but have not, I don't know, who have been offended by the gospel.

00:09:58.440 They don't like the idea that they're a sinner.

00:10:00.360 And the New Age sweeps in and says, oh, no, no, you're not.

00:10:03.600 you're totally fine because you were making it sound like a lot of a lot of the people who kind

00:10:08.840 of came into the movement were people who are fleeing the church so to speak is that true

00:10:14.420 yeah absolutely true um and so the new age even goes farther than that and teaches there's no

00:10:21.760 such thing as sin the only sin is a negative thought here on earth and that heaven and hell

00:10:29.520 metaphors but at the same time they also teach that there's a literal heaven and they go on

00:10:35.040 near-death experience reports rather than the bible to back up their universalist pluralistic

00:10:41.280 claims that everyone goes to heaven that all paths lead to heaven you see oprah and the the darling

00:10:48.340 of evangelical um some evangelical circles richard roar says this that all paths lead to heaven you

00:10:56.700 just need to be a good person and you go to heaven right a new age finds a new person as

00:11:01.080 someone who recycles and is good to animals that's how they find new you know that you're going to

00:11:07.240 heaven yeah so a californian yeah exactly and hell is a they believe it's just a metaphor for having

00:11:15.360 a negative life and that you attracted those negative experiences from having negative thoughts

00:11:21.980 That makes a lot of sense.

00:11:23.480 As you were talking, it just made me think of 1 John 1, verse 8.

00:11:27.780 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

00:11:32.860 Verse 9, but if we confess our sins, he, that is Christ, is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

00:11:41.240 And then the last verse of 1 John 1, verse 10.

00:11:45.360 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

00:11:50.880 And I've noticed that even in the church, not only a message that says that you,

00:11:59.040 verse 8 says, if we have no sin, so like that we currently, presently are free from sin.

00:12:04.820 That's one message.

00:12:06.100 But verse 10 says, if we say we have not sinned, that we've never sinned, even our past.

00:12:11.300 And I've noticed that so much of what we see in our culture today is there's a fight for

00:12:17.760 controlling a narrative.

00:12:20.120 And I think that whether it's new age or anything,

00:12:22.700 that's what we do is we impute to someone.

00:12:25.480 We don't just console someone.

00:12:28.300 A false teacher doesn't just console someone

00:12:29.940 that they currently don't have sin,

00:12:31.540 but they equip them with a new lens,

00:12:34.160 a new frame of reinterpreting their entire history,

00:12:38.160 their entire past, like this new narrative now

00:12:40.560 to where not only are they reassured

00:12:42.820 that they currently are free from sin,

00:12:45.320 but they're now convinced that they've actually never sinned.

00:12:48.060 They've always been a victim or they've always, it's always been something else or really, like you said, the only real sin, the only real crime that they've ever committed is just thinking too lowly of themselves and not believing in themselves and not believing that they are valuable and worth it and those kinds of things.

00:13:06.120 And it's sad to see that that message is not too rare in pulpits.

00:13:12.920 No, I would say it's growing in popularity. Growing up in Christian science, and then unfortunately, I passed the deception along that we took Genesis 1, 26, 27 about image of God, imago Deo. And we twisted it to say that because God is sinless, God's healthy, God's perfect, whole and complete. Therefore, a true self is sinless. A true self is. And so we just disregard, we swept right by the fall.

00:13:39.900 Right. The first two chapters of the Bible and from Genesis 3 on, you know, the Bible got it wrong.

00:13:47.600 So, yeah, I understand. So another thing I wanted to pick up on that you said earlier as we were discussing,

00:13:54.520 you said that women seem to be the kind of the primary clientele, if you will, for New Ageism.

00:14:03.400 Why particularly do you think that is? You were talking about maybe abuse in their past or things like that.

00:14:08.260 Why is it that women seem to be more attracted to the message of, because as a man, I think, you know, like, you know, the idea that I've never done anything wrong and that I'm significant and valuable, like, that sounds like a universal message.

00:14:24.160 But I agree with you. 0.99

00:14:25.720 It does seem to predominantly prey on women. 0.99

00:14:29.860 Why is that?

00:14:30.780 Why do women seem to be more attracted to the New Age message? 0.91

00:14:36.300 Well, I think it's the Eve syndrome.

00:14:37.900 I think that we, as the second creator, the creation order, we're more prone to being deceived.

00:14:45.860 Yoga classes, same thing, which is very new age.

00:14:48.420 We'll talk about yoga, hopefully.

00:14:49.840 I was going to ask you about yoga.

00:14:51.580 I wanted to talk about that.

00:14:53.560 There are probably 90% women and then maybe 5% men who are preying on those women.

00:14:58.880 Yeah.

00:15:00.620 And so we're more prone to deception.

00:15:04.360 I mean, I have my theories.

00:15:05.600 My theories are that because we have to have nonverbal communication with our babies,

00:15:10.540 that perhaps maybe we're a little more prone to focusing on feelings.

00:15:15.820 Yeah, maybe.

00:15:16.920 It's all about, with mystical Catholicism, which is very highly revered in the New Age,

00:15:23.140 and in the Luke 1 progressive churches, is about having experiences way more than what Scripture says.

00:15:32.000 Right. Right. You're right.

00:15:34.240 Yeah, that's super common. So who are some people, maybe as like, I don't know, as a loving warning to some of our listeners, who are a couple of people who you would say, I read their writings or I listen to their podcast and it's just drenched in new age thought and ideas.

00:15:56.280 but this person professes to be a Christian

00:15:58.940 and I see lots of Christians today

00:16:01.640 following their teaching.

00:16:04.100 Is there anyone like that?

00:16:05.180 Because there's some people it's like,

00:16:06.560 I know that person is new age.

00:16:07.980 I know that person's not even really,

00:16:10.000 they're not even propping themselves up as a Christian.

00:16:12.420 So for me as a pastor,

00:16:14.040 I'm always concerned for the sheep with,

00:16:16.080 it seems like the most dangerous lies

00:16:17.780 are the ones that are the most subtle,

00:16:19.600 the ones that creep in.

00:16:20.900 And so are there any people right now

00:16:23.120 that you're like, man, a lot of your ministry,

00:16:25.940 i warn people about so and so or this particular book is there anything like that that you could

00:16:31.380 cue us in on well i'll first start with the overall umbrella um it's phil johnson of new

00:16:40.440 apostolic reformation yeah i mean he's hands down he openly admits that he uses new age methods and

00:16:48.840 terminology in fact he's written in when heaven meets earth that he thinks the new age stole

00:16:55.240 their pagan practices from christianity which you know what and and so anyone in the nar and also

00:17:04.280 word of faith um is is clearly teaching new age what's called law of attraction the name it and

00:17:11.180 claim it right uh joyce meyer uh who's one of course joel osteen teacher jakes preplodollar

00:17:18.980 are all the folks that we should be staying away from.

00:17:23.280 We've listened to discernment ministers like yourself who warn us.

00:17:27.680 And also, as I mentioned, Richard Rohr and the whole progressive Christianity movement.

00:17:33.600 If you go on, and I don't recommend this unless someone's really grounded in the word,

00:17:39.080 but go on progressivechristianity.org and read their doctrine statements.

00:17:44.520 And it begins with that Jesus is just a man, a role model, a moral teacher.

00:17:50.120 They completely discard the Bible as being inerrant God's word.

00:17:54.280 And it just, it even goes downhill from there.

00:17:56.660 It's heresy.

00:17:57.640 Yes.

00:17:57.860 And it's New Age heresy.

00:17:59.500 Right. 0.65

00:17:59.940 Because in the New Age, we're taught that the Bible was tampered with by the Roman Catholic Church to try to control us. 0.51

00:18:06.260 There's this whole story about the council in Nicaea, the ecumenical council of Constantine.

00:18:12.300 he had it out for us so he took out references to reincarnation but he left a few clues with

00:18:18.860 the spirit of eliza i mean just complete fabricated stories in the new age to keep you

00:18:24.240 reading the bible or trusting it wow yeah you're right so a lot of those prosperity preachers that

00:18:30.320 you named i've noticed and we'll talk about this when um i'm honored that you're going to have me

00:18:35.320 also with with your show and um we're going to be talking about christology and one of the doctrines

00:18:40.500 that has seeped into the church today is the kenosis of Christ.

00:18:43.980 So looking at like Philippians chapter 2, he emptied himself. 0.58

00:18:47.720 So Paul is talking about the kind of mind, the mindset that Christians should have,

00:18:52.160 a mindset of humility.

00:18:53.780 And so he sets Christ up as the premier example of humility.

00:18:57.760 And he talks about, you know, in Philippians chapter 2,

00:19:00.800 that Christ did not count equality with God as something to be grasped,

00:19:05.600 but rather he emptied himself, taking the form of a servant.

00:19:09.780 And, you know, we also have that with Mark, I believe it's chapter 10 or chapter 12, where the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve.

00:19:18.820 And so what a lot of what a lot of heretical teachers have done with the doctrine of the kenosis, the emptying of Christ, they've looked at Philippians 2 and they've said, well, you know, Jesus, he didn't count equality with God.

00:19:31.720 The father is something to be grasped.

00:19:33.500 But what the language literally means there is not something to be clinged to.

00:19:37.180 So Paul's not saying that God the Father was superior to Christ in his essence, in his divine nature, and Jesus, the Son of God, was looking to God the Father and realized, oh, I can't even achieve or attain to your status.

00:19:53.080 No, no, the language is not grasp or attain, it's cling to it, it means to hold on.

00:19:59.500 And so basically what Paul is saying is that Jesus did have equality with the Father and does have equality with the Father.

00:20:06.440 And because he was equal with the Father, he didn't view that equality as something that needed to be preserved, it needed to be clinged to, but rather he was willing to empty himself.

00:20:16.840 But Orthodox teaching says that it's empty, it's subtraction by addition.

00:20:23.540 That emptying of the divine nature, it's not a real emptying, it's simply the Son adding to himself a second nature, namely the human nature.

00:20:31.500 As Augustine said, it's divinity wrapped in flesh.

00:20:35.180 And so there's no less of the divine nature of Christ in the incarnation.

00:20:40.120 It's simply all of God, very God, a very God, very light, a very light, as the Nicene Creed says.

00:20:45.720 It's the whole God-man, but with man being added.

00:20:49.860 And so it's subtraction by addition, but it's not in objective terms.

00:20:54.260 There's no real subtraction.

00:20:56.080 There's no less status between the Son and the Father.

00:21:00.720 Jesus was and is equal to the Father.

00:21:03.180 But what prosperity teachers do is they talk about the kenosis.

00:21:07.740 And so basically what Bill Johnson, especially what I've noticed he'll do is he'll say, you know, Jesus completely emptied himself, right?

00:21:14.140 Because if Jesus was doing all these miracles and if he was living a sinless life and if he was teaching the truth of God, but he was doing all this as God, well, then we could never look at that example and follow it because he's cheating in essence because he's got the divine nature.

00:21:29.440 So what Jesus did was he showed us the example of being a perfect man by emptying in real terms, actually forfeiting his divinity.

00:21:37.660 And so everything Jesus did was not, none of it was coming from the divine nature.

00:21:42.020 It was all coming from just a reliance on the Holy Spirit.

00:21:45.540 And you and I, we can do that very same thing.

00:21:48.220 So there's not one thing that we ever see Jesus teaching or doing or miracles that he's performing that Christians should not aspire to today.

00:21:57.720 And boom, it sounds really good, but immediately what seeps in is this mentality of, like Bill Johnson calls it, the Jesus theology. 0.97

00:22:06.500 And so any kind of teaching that doesn't prescribe that we can do exactly what Jesus is doing, he's going to reject and say, well, that's not Bible.

00:22:15.520 That's not Jesus. 0.79

00:22:16.780 And so then you have a bunch of Christians going around saying, my life should literally look exactly like the son of God's life here on earth, which is, it sounds good.

00:22:27.260 that's just, it's too black and white of a statement. Yes, we should follow the example 0.77

00:22:32.000 of Christ, but no, we're not going to be multiplying food and feeding 5,000 people.

00:22:36.900 That's just, that's insane. And so I just noticed it seeped in so subtly and it sounds so good.

00:22:44.520 And a lot of Christians seem to be falling for it. Do you have any comments or follow-up or 0.94

00:22:51.140 thoughts on that yeah i mean i was shocked when i left the new age because i toured on stages

00:22:57.840 of mind body spirit festivals for 22 years and when i first saw bethel tv and i saw you know

00:23:05.360 heidi johnson and some of the prophets and prophetesses up there i said that's exactly

00:23:10.420 what i left that's a mind body spirit festival right there's no difference these these prophets

00:23:16.360 first of all they have nothing to do with biblical prophets if you compare them which we're supposed

00:23:23.180 to do like bereans compare everything to scripture um biblical prophets didn't tell people about

00:23:29.020 their soulmate or their life purpose or anything like that you know they were not stroking people's

00:23:35.860 they were calling people to repent and to come to the covenant or destruction would happen horrible

00:23:42.200 destruction so um when people call themselves prophets or self-appointed apostles uh and

00:23:48.660 especially when they have schools where you can buy a certificate to be a certified prophet

00:23:53.840 certified apostle wow so much what martin luther was dealing with yeah you're right indulgences

00:24:01.480 yeah indulgence yes you can buy your relatives out of purgatory can you hear can you hear their

00:24:08.060 screams in purgatory every time a coin in the coffer clinks a soul from or clings a soul from

00:24:15.120 purgatory springs yeah the teachings of tetzel that luther was combating it's it's sad it's really

00:24:21.140 it's charlatan work it really is just taking advantage do you think a lot of do you think so

00:24:27.240 we talked about how a lot of women seem to be attracted to the new age movement do you taking

00:24:32.060 aside men and women do you think like young versus old rich versus poor have have you noticed

00:24:38.140 anything like that or in that sense does it seem to be just a blanket universal like were there a

00:24:43.260 lot of poor people who are just really attracted or were there a lot of successful powerful rich

00:24:48.400 people you know what i mean yeah absolutely i toured all around the world um i toured you know

00:24:55.640 south africa all around asia um i was in australia all the time touring in north america you name it

00:25:03.800 i was giving workshops there and everywhere i went consistently it was women of all different

00:25:09.920 socioeconomic backgrounds um all different ages i mean they'd be from pre-teen to senior citizens

00:25:17.420 everywhere i'd go and uh so i don't i don't think it had any kind of class divisions at all i mean

00:25:24.780 I think so, but there was very wealthy people and celebrities at my workshops consistently.

00:25:30.880 What do you think is the appeal for somebody who already has fortune, already has fame?

00:25:36.140 Is it a way of just, maybe they're not trying.

00:25:39.780 So for some people, maybe new age, like prosperity preachers, it's a lotto ticket.

00:25:45.700 It's an opportunity, a hope, a chance to gain wealth or to gain the approval of man.

00:25:52.120 But would you say that maybe for those who already have fame and fortune, that prosperity preaching, which is really just New Ageism in the church, would you say that maybe the appeal is just a way to assuage the conscience, to deal with guilt?

00:26:09.180 Like, I already am famous and wealthy, and by doing this, I also get to be a good person and not feel bad about my celebrity status or that I have more than others.

00:26:22.400 Do you think that might be the appeal?

00:26:24.100 I think that's part of it.

00:26:25.460 You rarely hear anyone admitting they feel guilty in the new age.

00:26:30.260 Right.

00:26:30.820 The thing with the new age is that it's mind control to stay positive 100% of the time.

00:26:36.980 so your relationships are super superficial you would never go to someone and admit you have a

00:26:42.280 problem or that you felt bad even because they would say you're being negative and they would

00:26:46.480 chastise you right i think that really what was going on with the new age was just a hunger for

00:26:51.460 god i mean it was a real existential emptiness looking back and so trying i mean i don't like

00:26:58.600 that hope that they say the god-shaped hole it really wasn't it was just people trying to fill

00:27:06.240 themselves up with um empty promises and externals and trying to um find love in a fine sense and

00:27:15.020 looking for love in a fleshly sense gotcha all right so let's let's do it you brought it up

00:27:20.960 already let's do the yoga talk i i i listened to you with uh ali beth stuckey talking about yoga

00:27:26.720 and i i thought it was so interesting and i've had those thoughts myself with my wife i mean it's

00:27:32.000 been a few years now but uh i was like babe i don't want you uh i don't want you doing yoga

00:27:37.040 i think there's there's something else that you can do to have some cardio you know and and so

00:27:42.320 it just especially my wife never went to a studio or anything like that but but especially but it

00:27:48.300 seems like from listening to you even some of the poses but especially people go to a studio where

00:27:52.840 i mean the instructor is it's a religion it seems like a religious ceremony so what what are your

00:27:59.860 thoughts on on yoga christian women i'm just stretching doreen it's it's nothing religious

00:28:04.420 what would you say to them oh so much so so it's not just stretching it's not just exercise it is

00:28:12.400 a religion it is hinduism and then pluralists go crazy when i say that and they're like well what's

00:28:17.440 wrong with hinduism you're being a bigot and and when i point them to john 14 6 when jesus says i 0.59

00:28:23.380 am the way the truth the life no one gets to the father except for me new agers then point to near 0.55

00:28:29.580 death experiences the reports say anyone goes to heaven and of course we know that's demonic

00:28:34.620 deception right so yoga is a way to worship the 330 million hindu gods and goddesses and people

00:28:44.660 who are from india who are true yogis are shocked that american so-called christians would indulge

00:28:52.580 in this that just doesn't even make sense to them wow so there's this thing called holy yoga or

00:28:57.780 christian yoga which is a farce because you can't take paganism and scrub it you know it's like

00:29:04.100 saying that there's christian astrology or christian ouija board in that we're told i mean

00:29:10.540 our purpose is to to honor god to glorify god in all things we do and yoga in no way shape or form

00:29:17.600 glorifies god what we have a jealous god who will not share his glory with anyone especially idols

00:29:24.260 And when you do yoga, you are normally doing the sun salutation series.

00:29:30.360 And that includes three poses called the warrior poses.

00:29:33.580 In Sanskrit, they're called Varebhadrasana. 0.65

00:29:37.560 And Varebhadras is a demon, a Hindu demon, who murdered one of their deities.

00:29:44.680 And the three warrior poses are acting out the murder scene where you are playing the part of a murderous demon. 0.84

00:29:51.380 Now, how is that glorifying God?

00:29:52.960 and there's ways to stretch there's a friend of mine named caitlin engelbert who has a yoga

00:30:00.140 who was a holy yoga instructor until she was convicted that she couldn't mix christianity

00:30:05.880 with yoga and so she has a youtube channel called non-yoga stretches now stretching is normal right

00:30:12.580 but putting arms out straight in a warrior pose that's not natural it's not normal and another

00:30:18.600 friend of mine who's an ex-yoga teacher, Christian, she has a study on her TruthBehindYoga.com

00:30:25.400 website that showed that the average person starts yoga for innocent reasons, stretching,

00:30:30.300 exercise, and within about six months, they are inculcated into the Hindu spiritual beliefs.

00:30:38.800 It works on it. They're also introducing it into schools. There's a Hindu company that

00:30:45.040 is paying schools money to put yoga into the schools

00:30:48.700 where prayer is not allowed in schools.

00:30:50.700 And yoga is in prayer.

00:30:52.640 So it's outrageous. 1.00

00:30:54.000 No Christian should be doing yoga. 1.00

00:30:56.580 Yeah, that's really helpful. 1.00

00:30:58.000 Thank you.

00:30:58.480 Thank you for warning our audience.

00:31:00.100 I've felt that way for a while.

00:31:01.920 I remember I included my commentary on yoga

00:31:06.380 as a portion of one of my sermons about two years ago. 1.00

00:31:08.900 And I had a lot of women who were very frustrated 1.00

00:31:11.040 with me in our church.

00:31:11.880 So I'm glad that they get to hear it from someone besides me.

00:31:16.780 So God bless you for saying that.

00:31:19.260 I did yoga for 20 years in the New Age.

00:31:21.580 I've done my research.

00:31:23.000 I would never do yoga now as a born-again Christian, never, because I love God.

00:31:27.320 And Jesus said, if you love me, you will obey me.

00:31:30.420 And it's disobeyed to use your body like an idol like that.

00:31:34.680 Yeah.

00:31:34.900 What fellowship does light have with darkness?

00:31:36.660 I kept thinking of that verse also.

00:31:38.460 It's just, there are some things, there are some things because of the doctrine of common grace, because of the Imago Dei, God does create man in his image.

00:31:48.960 That image is marred, it's tarnished because of original sin, but it's not utterly lost.

00:31:55.000 And so there is an image of God that remains in every single human being.

00:31:58.360 And so even the unbeliever, because of the Imago Dei, because of common grace, we're capable of doing wonderful things.

00:32:05.260 A non-Christian could build an incredible suspension bridge that I, as a Christian, knowing that that person is at enmity with God and their heart of hearts hates God because they've still, even as an unbeliever, are made in the image of God, I'm going to trust that suspension bridge and I would be willing to drive my family over it.

00:32:24.160 And so there are some things because of common grace that they're not Christian necessarily, but all truth is God's truth. 0.73

00:32:31.940 And so that's, I always want Christians to realize like all truth is God's truth.

00:32:36.080 And so even a non-Christian can build a suspension bridge.

00:32:39.680 They can do many wonderful things. 0.98

00:32:41.600 And as Christians, we can discern and see, okay, that's ultimately, a non-Christian may 0.65

00:32:46.580 be doing it, but that non-Christian has simply discovered something that ultimately belongs 0.67

00:32:50.680 to God. 0.97

00:32:51.580 It's all truth is God's truth, but there are certain things that do not belong to God.

00:32:57.000 And so I think Christians have to keep that because a lot of Christians will think, well,

00:32:59.500 let's redeem it, right? 0.58

00:33:00.780 So there's things that we need to preserve, there's things that we need to redeem, and there are other things that we need to entirely reject and discard. 0.87

00:33:12.400 And I think Christians sometimes have a hard, they have difficulty with that rejection piece. 0.93

00:33:17.820 They're like, well, you know, why can't yoga be redeemed?

00:33:21.120 And I, you know, like you've already said so wonderfully, yoga is not like a suspension bridge.

00:33:26.520 It's not mathematics, a universal truth that ultimately stems from God, who is truth.

00:33:31.540 But rather, these are physical poses.

00:33:34.400 So even you take the instructor and the running commentary, you know, blasphemous commentary out of it,

00:33:39.660 and you're still doing it, you're just doing it in your home.

00:33:41.260 It's just the physical posture.

00:33:42.680 Well, just the physical posture is still a position of worship to false deities.

00:33:47.980 There's no redeeming of that. 1.00

00:33:50.740 And so when I heard you say that, when I was just looking at some of your content, I was so encouraged to hear that because it just gave me another weapon in my arsenal to be able to try to encourage and plead with Christians to walk away. 1.00

00:34:06.300 So thank you for that. 1.00

00:34:08.120 Any other thoughts?

00:34:10.560 Yeah, Enneagram is also in the same category.

00:34:14.620 Let's do that.

00:34:15.460 that would be wonderful because that's like the new, I feel like that's the gospel 2.0 for a lot

00:34:20.260 of Christians today. I hear all the time about the Enneagram. What are your thoughts? Well,

00:34:25.840 it's, you know, let's look at the roots, the basis of it. Some people would discount the basis of

00:34:30.660 something, but some would like me want to take a look at it. So it's a geographical shape. I mean,

00:34:36.440 a geometrical shape that was added to by a man named Claudio Naranjo, who openly admits, and I've

00:34:43.400 got a video of him admitting this that he found the nine personality enneatypes through automatic

00:34:50.840 writing which is an occult practice of channeling where you empty your mind you go into a trance

00:34:56.420 and you write down whatever comes in so the basis of the enneagram is a cult and that should be

00:35:02.240 enough for any bible-believing christian to reject but let's just say they they say well that doesn't

00:35:07.200 matter let's look at the effects of the enneagram first of all you've got pride how many times have

00:35:13.760 you heard people bragging and boasting about what enneagram number they are i have heard

00:35:18.140 you know i'm i'm an eight i'm wonderful and i hate ones and my husband's a six oh that explains

00:35:24.040 everything they're talking like people who follow astrology and they're bragging about you know

00:35:29.140 virgo or scorpio i mean they're identifying as something other than a child of god as an adopted

00:35:35.340 son of christ they're this is not biblical and so then people go to well the benefits and i hear

00:35:42.960 this all the time about christians who want to defend using new age methods and they always say

00:35:50.280 but it brings me comfort it helps me in my relationship helps me to understand myself

00:35:55.020 but but but but we can't justify sin there's no benefit that can justify any kind of sin

00:36:03.080 And so hopefully any Christian will be convicted by hearing this and will stay far, far away from Enneagram because it's being popularized by Richard Rohr, who is a universalist, a perennialist.

00:36:17.680 He teaches that all people, no matter what, go to heaven.

00:36:23.260 And that's dangerous. 0.99

00:36:24.600 That could lead unsaved people to hell.

00:36:27.000 That kind of teaching. 0.97

00:36:28.380 Yeah, it's become incredibly popular in the church today.

00:36:31.900 I hear Christians always talking about, you know, what's your, you know, what, what, what, I don't even know the word for the Enneagram, but what, what are you call each of the nine things?

00:36:42.580 Enneatypes.

00:36:43.440 Enneatypes.

00:36:43.960 Okay.

00:36:44.600 So I hear that kind of language and those conversations quite often.

00:36:47.940 And to me, it always seems like an excuse to, to, well, because I'm this, I can't really be expected to overcome this particular weakness, this particular sin.

00:37:00.040 It almost seems to be used often as a way of justifying certain sins, whereas we don't have nine Bibles, you know, written to nine different personality types.

00:37:11.220 We have one Bible, and it seems as though God has his final word to all people, regardless of ethnicity, regardless of gender, regardless of personality type.

00:37:23.080 It just seems like it's just one more way to divide people and to, in some sense, come up with justifications for those parts of our hearts and our lives that aren't in line with God's word.

00:37:36.900 And so I've always been kind of concerned about that when I hear people, well, you know, yeah, I share with that, but that's because I'm, you know, blank.

00:37:46.060 And I'm like, what does that have to do with anything?

00:37:47.880 I don't see the relevance.

00:37:49.880 So, all right, well, this is what, go ahead, go ahead. 0.97

00:37:53.080 I was just going to say, you know, this channeled material in the church, Jesus calling, I would put that as a top priority for Christians to speak out against. 0.66

00:38:04.560 And if anyone's watching or listening and has Jesus calling, please get rid of it, because it contradicts scripture. 0.56

00:38:11.660 And that's impossible if it was the real Jesus, because it's the same yesterday, today and forever.

00:38:16.640 So how can you contradict scripture?

00:38:18.440 And Sarah Young, who said she was basically wanting more than the Bible, that the Bible's not sufficient to her.

00:38:25.840 I mean, it's just...

00:38:27.440 It's not a good look.

00:38:30.120 If you ever find the words coming out of your mouth, wanting more than the Bible, just go ahead, count backwards from 10, take a break, sit a play out, because you're out of line.

00:38:41.460 So this is what we do, Doreen, typically on our shows.

00:38:44.140 We interview our guests.

00:38:46.180 We have a conversation like we just have.

00:38:48.140 And then at the end, we kind of whet our listeners' appetite by having a couple bonus questions.

00:38:55.400 And then we go ahead and conclude our interview.

00:38:58.160 And so would you be willing to, after this show, to stay back on for maybe just 10 more minutes for a couple bonus questions?

00:39:05.500 I'd love to.

00:39:06.660 Okay, great.

00:39:07.400 So real quick, as we end the episode, could you let our listeners know how they can follow you, your ministry, keep up with you and the things that you're doing?

00:39:15.920 Absolutely.

00:39:16.400 My website is DoreenVirtue.com, Instagram DoreenVirtue, Facebook, and YouTube are DoreenVirtue4, F-O-R, Jesus.

00:39:26.820 Great. Thank you, Doreen, for coming on. We really appreciate it.

00:39:30.580 Thank you.

00:39:31.580 Thanks for tuning in to Right Response Ministries.

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The NXR Podcast - November 25, 2020

THEOLOGY APPLIED - The Demonic Origins Of New Ageism And Yoga

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