The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - The Key Differences Between Christianity & Islam

00:00:00.000 In this episode, I was privileged to have as a guest Hastie Gomez, who was born in Iran into a

00:00:06.400 Muslim family. We address the differences between Islam and Christianity, as well as the million

00:00:13.400 dollar question, does Islam promote violence? I hope you enjoy. 0.72

00:00:19.660 Applying God's word to every aspect of life. This is Theology Applied.

00:00:25.120 All right. Welcome to Theology Applied. This is Pastor Joel with Right Response Ministries.

00:00:32.960 Today, I am privileged to have as a guest, Hastie Gomez. And Hastie goes by the label

00:00:39.500 Biblical and Reformed with her social media ministry. And she's followed some of our stuff.

00:00:44.360 I've followed some of hers. I saw her as an interview on Doreen Virtue's channel and reached

00:00:50.180 out to her. And so I'm happy to have her on the show today. We're going to talk about her journey,

00:00:55.120 her testimony. We're also going to talk a little bit about Islam. And so I'm excited for the

00:00:59.860 episode that we have in store. So without further ado, Hastie, would you go ahead and just tell our

00:01:04.760 listeners a little bit about yourself and your social media ministry? Yeah. Hi, Joel. Thanks

00:01:10.620 for having me. It's an honor to be on your show. I live in Vancouver with my husband, our kids,

00:01:18.560 Joshua and Isabel and our dog, Gospel. I keep busy raising them and taking care of our home

00:01:27.100 and packing lunch kits for my husband. Lately, I've been a little busier trying to finish my

00:01:35.800 website where I'm trying to making some merch that has sound theology on it that can, you know,

00:01:45.440 help, um, people start a discussion and a conversation about the gospel. Um, I'll send you

00:01:51.860 one. Um, and, um, yeah, my social media really, it started, um, around, I think I started my

00:02:02.080 account in 2017 and this is while I was still in the first church that I, um, attended for over a

00:02:10.440 decade. And I really wanted something for myself. It was personal. I wanted some aesthetically nice

00:02:17.060 pictures with Bible verses. I really didn't have any idea about sound theology then. But as I

00:02:23.420 came out of that church and I discovered sound theology and sound doctrine, my page started

00:02:30.100 reflecting that change. And that's how Biblical and Reform came about.

00:02:35.300 That's cool. How many followers do you have at this point?

00:02:37.460 um i think around over 40 000 wow that's really cool do you mainly post just scripture verses

00:02:46.120 quotes do you ever blog or anything like that what's the what's the main gist of your content

00:02:51.780 really the content i how it started was i was learning and then i was like i need to share

00:02:59.920 this if someone like me who's come out of false teachings can learn from it then great that's how

00:03:05.520 it all started so even to this day when i listen to a preacher and i i hear something that i'm like

00:03:12.080 that is so good i'll share that i won't share profound things just because they sound profound

00:03:17.580 if i don't understand it i won't share it so i have to understand it i have to apply it

00:03:22.580 and uh if i'm moved by it i'll share it and it's mostly from reformed sound biblical teachers

00:03:30.640 that's great who are uh some of your favorite teachers uh alive today that you would find

00:03:36.840 yourself listening to different pastors theologians um john mccarthur is one of the top

00:03:43.680 ones derrick thomas sinclair ferguson um stephen lawson joel webbin um yeah yeah so a lot of the

00:03:56.320 the masters or grace to you guys and Ligonier, Ligonier and Ligonier.

00:04:01.780 Yeah. The teaching fellows with Ligonier. Yeah.

00:04:05.240 They put out a lot of great, a lot of great series, a lot of great content.

00:04:08.260 I like Derek Thomas, his, well,

00:04:11.760 really kind of almost his exposition of Pilgrim's progress.

00:04:14.500 And so I don't know if you've listened to that, but other than the Bible,

00:04:18.620 Pilgrim's progress is arguably the best book ever written.

00:04:22.200 And I remember I had it on audible and you know,

00:04:25.380 I had read it before, but I listened to it over the course of three or four months of

00:04:29.820 summer, seven times to where I could recite some of the discourse, especially when Christian

00:04:37.100 is engaging with talkative and it's just, it's so profound and so insightful.

00:04:42.380 And Derek Thomas does a really good job of making sense of the story because it is that

00:04:47.160 old English kind of language that is lost on a lot of people, but it's not just the

00:04:51.340 language. It's not just the style. But the doctrine, sadly, is lost on many modern evangelicals

00:04:58.120 today. It's deep doctrine. And really, one of the overarching principles is this idea that,

00:05:05.100 yes, we have assurance of salvation. There's a moment when Christian, the protagonist,

00:05:09.140 he loses his scroll that represents assurance, and he has to go back and he has to find it.

00:05:13.800 So he doesn't ultimately ever lose salvation. And so there is that assurance of salvation,

00:05:17.900 the security of the believer, but what you're overwhelmed by throughout the entire narrative

00:05:22.820 is how much striving that is involved in this pilgrimage of making it to the celestial

00:05:30.420 city.

00:05:31.140 It makes me think of Hebrews that, you know, that we should strive for the holiness for

00:05:35.160 without which no one will see the Lord or to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

00:05:40.800 And there's a lot of people in the reformed camp that I think overemphasize grace to the

00:05:45.820 point that they, um, that they don't really understand that, uh, that there is a sense in

00:05:50.020 which the Christian diligently strives, um, to follow after God. So Derek Thomas, he's great

00:05:55.660 Ligonier, uh, big fan. So all that being said, let's go ahead and get to your personal story.

00:06:00.660 So you were born in Iran and you were born into Islam. You, your family, your parents,

00:06:08.200 uh, talk about that. Talk about your journey out of Islam. Yeah. Well, yeah, I was born in Iran. I 1.00

00:06:15.160 I was I went to school there for a couple of years and my dad decided that he didn't want to live in Iran with the regime and with the with the craziness of Islam. 1.00

00:06:26.240 And it was in the middle of the Iran-Iraq war when I was born. 1.00

00:06:30.760 So we were there until the war actually ended.

00:06:33.560 So I was around eight years old when we moved to Denmark, which is like black and white, like completely different countries.

00:06:42.020 um and i to this day i thank god that i was raised there because it's a beautiful country

00:06:47.580 um so we moved to denmark my brother and i my mom and my dad and uh we started living there

00:06:56.400 as we identified as a muslim family even though my dad was a very nominal christian very

00:07:03.140 liberal christian um i went to school there we'll just say you just said christian but

00:07:09.920 did you mean to say nominal yes okay all right go ahead yeah yeah that's what i feel a liberal

00:07:15.800 yeah a very liberal muslim yeah and we identified as a muslim family um so i went to school there

00:07:23.120 and um the only time um i would go to a church was for a school play or concert

00:07:29.120 and that was the extent of christianity that i knew um it was beautiful churches and that's about

00:07:36.760 Nobody ever in the 10 years that I was living there shared the gospel with me personally.

00:07:44.380 No one.

00:07:45.060 I was living in a Christian country, but not one person shared the good news with me.

00:07:53.680 And so fast forward, my parents were going through marital problems.

00:08:00.780 So my mom decided that she wanted to move away and she wanted to move to Vancouver with my brother and I.

00:08:08.240 So we moved to Vancouver and started over here.

00:08:11.700 So I went to school here, high school.

00:08:14.540 And so my mom kind of like, because my mom was the one that was very devoted to her faith, to Islam.

00:08:24.360 But she was just not finding peace in Islam.

00:08:29.860 She was not finding that it was the truth, especially after she went to she took the pilgrimage to Mecca with my dad while they were in Denmark.

00:08:40.340 And she had come back even more confused and more unsettled because she was told, you know, she was visiting one of the holiest and most sacred sites for Muslims.

00:08:51.460 And she did not feel that. She came back and she's like, something's off. This is not right.

00:08:57.180 and so not knowing better she started going to seek temples to buddhist temples and to anything

00:09:05.600 and everything trying to find that peace and um and we were just oblivious just being teenagers

00:09:14.260 and and one day one of her friends um asked her hey do you want to go to church with me so she

00:09:21.880 invited her to church and she was like fine like again like to her church was like a museum they're

00:09:28.500 beautiful you go in you come out and she could have she would go out with her friend the next

00:09:32.860 that day on a sunday so she goes to church and um while the worship was happening happening one of

00:09:40.220 the one of the songs worship songs was about the character of god about god and who he is and

00:09:46.740 and that was that did it for her she felt that that was the truth about god who god is

00:09:55.940 what the what the words how the words were describing god is who she really believed

00:10:01.620 that that this is god this is is who i've been seeking um now that i that we know that god had

00:10:09.980 regenerated her heart, giving her the gift of faith to actually draw her to himself.

00:10:16.380 So she goes home and she started reading the Bible and she keeps going back to that church.

00:10:21.600 And so she became a believer about like a year before my brother and I.

00:10:28.180 And so she would share the Bible stories with us.

00:10:31.700 She would share verses with us and she would pray for us.

00:10:36.340 And, you know, my brother and I were like, oh, my gosh, now she's on a Jesus journey now.

00:10:41.900 Like, first, it was like the Buddhism stuff. 0.96

00:10:43.820 It was the Sikhs. 0.99

00:10:44.420 So we thought this is just another phase. 1.00

00:10:47.740 But one night, I remember specifically, I was doing homework.

00:10:51.900 And she kind of like was like, Hasty, do you know if you put your trust in Christ, he'll forgive you of all your sins?

00:11:01.680 and it's like everything stopped for me because I'd never been I never even knew I needed

00:11:08.720 forgiveness I've never been told that but I knew myself I wanted it because of whatever

00:11:16.660 happened in my past and everything and I wanted to be able to forgive and so that was very

00:11:23.540 interesting to me because I was like are you sure like are you sure all of it like completely

00:11:28.960 clean slate and she's like yeah so I was like oh interesting so that really just caught my

00:11:35.540 attention and I decided to go to church with her that Sunday and so I go to church and you know

00:11:43.980 the church that I am talking about is now that I know is with a charismatic church very secret

00:11:50.640 friendly and um word of faith so they had me um so I went out for prayer thinking that it's just

00:12:00.660 like any any mosque or whatever you just go pray you know prayer is prayer I didn't know any

00:12:07.120 difference so when I went up they asked me if I had if I knew Jesus I said no and they said do

00:12:13.140 you want to know Jesus I said sure and so they said repeat this prayer after me and so I did

00:12:18.680 and i didn't know why they were so happy so apparently so i had accepted christ as my savior

00:12:25.300 without knowing so um so that happened but again in god's sovereignty and providence he did

00:12:34.560 draw me to himself despite of the wrong ways of them not really sharing the gospel with me not

00:12:41.200 telling me that i was a sinner um deserving hell under god's wrath that i needed to repent

00:12:48.260 and to put my trust in Christ, I did go home and I started reading the Bible

00:12:54.020 and I started, you know, talking to my mom about it.

00:12:58.500 So I did come to know God eventually.

00:13:04.760 But that wasn't it.

00:13:06.620 No.

00:13:07.420 But that wasn't it, that moment.

00:13:09.100 And I can't help but think you said, you know, like they were rejoicing,

00:13:12.080 they were so happy, and you kind of were lost and didn't know what was going on.

00:13:16.580 And I can't help but think, you know, you mentioned that they didn't talk about sin.

00:13:20.660 They didn't talk about the holiness of God, this thrice holy God and, you know, the severity of man's sin and therefore God's just wrath towards man in his sin and man's sin being an affront and offense to his holiness.

00:13:35.280 And really, it just, you know, it got me thinking that you can't rejoice in the good news without first understanding the bad news.

00:13:45.060 Exactly. So for you, you're sitting there and they're, you know, they're excited and, you know, right. Cause in their view, it's like, you've just been cured from cancer. Um, but in your view, you don't even know what a cure from, from cancer is, but not only that, you don't even know what cancer is, you know? And so exactly. Yeah. So go, go ahead. Back to you.

00:14:03.360 Yeah, so that was, so that was my, my entrance into Christianity. I mean, there's a reason for everything. And I trust that God knew what he was doing. And now looking back, I wouldn't have been able to do what I'm doing, for example, on Instagram, if I actually wasn't in that for a while, in the false teachings and the wrong ways of doing things.

00:14:30.360 um he allowed me to be there and to so for me to be able to bring glory to his name at the end you

00:14:37.940 know so i'm not upset about whatever happened in those 15 years i think i was in that church

00:14:45.580 um 15 is that what you said yeah yeah that's a long time yeah so i was 19 and i was there when

00:14:55.360 i got married so i met my husband there so i was 25 when i met him and then stayed there until

00:15:02.060 a few years back where everything just started um stuff started happening while i was at that

00:15:09.140 church stuff that didn't make sense for example like uh then the word gospel would come up and

00:15:14.120 i would be like what is the gospel like why don't i know this why why why why isn't the preacher

00:15:20.440 explaining what the gospel is what is uh why can't i share about christ easily as other people say

00:15:26.780 they do how do you share how do you share about your faith like so these things and then i would

00:15:32.140 say um you know why is the bible not being taught at our church you know why are we watching movies

00:15:41.240 on a sunday you know hollywood movies right like exegeting it's funny when pastors like you know

00:15:48.460 what the bible is 66 books you know it's 1500 to 3000 pages long depending on your translation

00:15:54.700 and even though you would think that there's a plethora of scripture to exegete let's go ahead

00:16:00.040 and exegete the latest brad pitt film i think that's what the people need yeah it doesn't make

00:16:05.840 a lot of sense no and like um i would um this is this is the crazy part that nobody told me that i

00:16:15.020 was in a in a prosperity gospel church that I was in a word of faith church I didn't even know what

00:16:19.480 those things were um but I knew something's off like I knew I didn't like Joel Osteen the way he

00:16:26.540 taught and I was like why is Joel Osteen endorsing our church why are you selling his books here and

00:16:32.720 then when I would ask the pastors they would bring up the bible where some have the gift of this some

00:16:38.320 have the gift of this so we you know we don't judge and we so and then slowly started like I

00:16:45.420 just I was like why um why is my mom who needs financial help putting her tithes on her on her

00:16:53.340 visa and uh she asked she one time asked the pastor um you know I don't I don't have money

00:17:01.660 for tithing i'm putting it on my visa and she knew that you shouldn't be in debt and the bible

00:17:09.080 clearly says you can't go in debt and um in the past i was standing there and the pastor said

00:17:15.360 you put it on your visa god will bless you you just keep giving and in my head i'm like that

00:17:21.620 doesn't make any sense you know slowly stuff started why is why is the pastor marrying

00:17:29.600 a muslim to a christian the bible clearly says you can't be unequally yoked why is that okay

00:17:37.800 so stuff like that started like ding ding ding you know and um i didn't have anybody to talk to

00:17:43.580 except my mom so we kind of started like what is going on and then with my husband i started

00:17:50.900 talking to him later and uh one day um speaking about the movie we were in this um campus where

00:17:59.220 was mainly for the area was where drug addicts are and a lot of homeless people. So this church

00:18:08.040 was basically there mostly for them to attend it. And, you know, there was, I was, I arrived

00:18:14.900 to church and there was all of those, you know, less fortunate or homeless people were in the

00:18:21.020 church as well. And I hear that we're going to watch this Kevin Costner movie. And I just like,

00:18:27.420 i couldn't i i couldn't handle it anymore i was like i look around the movie was playing and i'm

00:18:33.400 like this is what you're giving these people who are here to hear the gospel the word of god the

00:18:39.360 bible we're watching a movie it was over for me i just i was so angry and um i went home and i uh

00:18:47.360 researched um when is it okay to leave your church and um todd frill from rested radio showed up on

00:18:56.380 youtube and i just clicked i didn't even know who he was and it was like if they use hill song music

00:19:04.240 if they use these music emotional music if they're if they're not sharing the gospel if they're

00:19:09.200 watching movies if and if they're using gimmicks and all that everything he said was like a check

00:19:15.780 mark i was like oh my word what where am i what is going on and so um so then another video popped

00:19:24.420 up and it was Justin Peters about false teachers so I clicked on it and lo and behold every single

00:19:31.700 teacher he was talking about my church endorsed Beth Moore, Lisa DeVere, John Bevere, Kenneth

00:19:37.960 Copeland, Joel Osteen I mean I was it was like it rocked my world I was like I mean this I was

00:19:49.380 like a twilight zone i was like where what is happening right now am i actually

00:19:54.480 i felt like i was lied to for 15 years you know nobody had told me different so i told my mom and

00:20:02.900 my husband and um somehow by god's providence um we we just came out of that church and um

00:20:13.900 found the church that we now attend and it is biblical and it is um sound and it's expository

00:20:23.040 preaching and there's you know everything you need in a church so you found a good biblical

00:20:29.260 reformed church which you think is mainly presbyterian um and you came out of the

00:20:35.540 prosperity preaching church that you were part of for 15 years and before that it sounds like

00:20:40.320 you know, you were doing the teenager thing that most teenagers tend to do. And your mom was on

00:20:45.540 really this journey of trying to find Christ. And she didn't even know she was looking for Christ,

00:20:50.740 but trying to find the one true God. And she did her Mecca, her pilgrimage, and realized there's

00:20:59.180 nothing here. And she tried out Buddhism, I think you said Hinduism, eventually found

00:21:04.240 And yeah, a Christian church that had at least an anemic presentation of the gospel, perhaps

00:21:10.420 even by accident in the music.

00:21:12.560 And so but it was enough of a gospel presentation about the character of God, who God is, who

00:21:19.080 man is in light of God and his love for man, his grace towards man in his sin through the

00:21:25.200 person of Jesus to where you would say and your mom would say that that was the moment

00:21:29.920 that she was regenerate. And then it was just this long process of growing in biblical theology

00:21:35.920 that eventually, ironically, growing in the scripture led you out of the church that your

00:21:42.200 mom was actually saved in because that church wasn't really being faithful to the scripture.

00:21:46.700 Is that about right? That's right. Yep. Okay. So now I know that with your personal testimony,

00:21:53.780 this isn't something that you claim to be an expert on. So we talked about this before you

00:21:57.640 came on the show. And so I'm not going to grill you with a whole bunch of questions, especially

00:22:01.460 considering the fact that you were a kid when you had this kind of Muslim upbringing. But you

00:22:09.360 certainly have more experience than most growing up in a family with two parents that were Muslim,

00:22:15.340 at least at one point. So could you talk about that a little bit? What are some of the things

00:22:20.780 I'm sure as you've gotten older that you've probably at least looked into Islam at some

00:22:25.660 level, knowing that that was your, your origin and, and probably having maybe old past family

00:22:31.820 friends that might still be in Islam. What are some of the things? Yeah. So what are the things

00:22:37.260 that you've come to find? And what are some of, if you could say, these are my biggest concerns

00:22:42.080 with the false religion of Islam. What would you say? Yeah, well, the Quran notoriously 1.00

00:22:49.140 denies the crucifixion of Christ um so I have a verse for you it says um it's found in Surah 4

00:22:58.480 verse 157 to 158 it says and they're saying we slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary the messenger

00:23:05.640 of Allah whereas in fact they had neither slain him nor crucified him but the matter was made

00:23:10.860 dubious to them and those who differed about it too were in a state of doubt they have no definite

00:23:16.240 knowledge of it, but merely follow conjecture. And they surely slew him not, but Allah raised

00:23:21.660 him to himself. So Islam denies fundamental truth about Christianity and about Christ, 0.99

00:23:30.940 about what Christianity reveals about Christ, about his death, his deity, his resurrection. 0.95

00:23:38.700 So Islam denies all those three things, the death, deity, and resurrection of Christ. 0.53

00:23:44.380 uh it denies that christ claimed to be god it denies that christ died on the cross um

00:23:50.980 and so if he never died on the cross how did he rise from the dead so and that's um but we know

00:24:00.060 like in as a christian we know that the word god tells us in first corinthians 15 3 4 for i delivered

00:24:07.080 to you as a first importance but i also received that christ died for our sins in accordance with

00:24:12.080 the scriptures that he was buried that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the

00:24:17.400 scriptures and romans 10 9 tells us if you confess with your mouth that jesus is lord and believe in

00:24:22.460 your heart that god raised him from the dead you will be saved the deity the death and resurrection

00:24:27.660 of christ so um and we know that as we know as christians that the atonement is that is tied

00:24:36.800 into the death and resurrection of christ so muslims um are taught these things never happen

00:24:43.800 right which makes it very hard to to somewhat kind of somewhat challenging to share

00:24:52.100 uh the hope that's found in the work of christ on the cross uh with muslims but um you know 0.98

00:25:00.280 knowing that it is god who saves it's god that regenerates us gives us the heart of flesh

00:25:06.680 um we just need to share the good news with them we need to share the gospel with them

00:25:13.380 pray for them and trust that god is the one that does the saving even though they might believe

00:25:19.020 all those things um because we can't always yeah go ahead we can't always know the things

00:25:26.700 yeah i was gonna say you're right it's uh that would be incredibly challenging if you're trying

00:25:32.600 to share the gospel with someone who, it's one thing sharing the gospel with someone

00:25:36.340 who is just strictly secular, but sharing the gospel with someone who has been trained

00:25:43.620 and discipled from a very young age, not just that the story of the gospel, the message

00:25:52.100 of Christ, his death, his burial, his resurrection has been neglected, but it actually has been

00:25:57.160 taught and it's been taught precisely that it never occurred, that it never even happened.

00:26:02.600 It seems that in human terms, um, that there's a larger hurdle to overcome, but you're right.

00:26:08.820 And, um, in biblical terms, um, at the end of the day, God softens even the hardest of

00:26:13.740 hearts and salvation ultimately belongs to the Lord.

00:26:16.580 And that's why we don't, you know, we don't just look at people and say, Hey, that seems

00:26:20.620 like a easy win for Christ.

00:26:22.500 I'll go and evangelize with that person.

00:26:24.460 And, oh, that person seems too far gone.

00:26:26.440 Um, at the end of the day, I can't imagine how many Christians in the early church, uh,

00:26:31.140 would have looked at Saul of Tarsus and said, uh, no way, no way that guy's ever coming to Christ.

00:26:37.600 And, uh, and lo and behold, he becomes, you know, the apostle to the Gentiles. So,

00:26:42.260 so with that being said, you know, the Quran, the Quran is interesting because one of the things

00:26:47.380 that, and I haven't studied extensively by any stretch of the imagination, but one of the things

00:26:52.020 that I've learned is, um, you know, it, to me, it seems quite obvious that, you know, Muhammad is

00:26:57.660 the author. He's the writer, even though I know that the claim is that the Quran literally fell

00:27:02.780 out of the sky, that it came from God. Whereas Christian doctrine, the Christian faith and

00:27:08.740 tradition holds. We've never said that the Bible is God's word that literally just fell out of the

00:27:14.740 sky. We've always held to human authorship, but with inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the Holy

00:27:21.340 Spirit inspiring, not forcing man to write down words, but inspiring human authors in

00:27:28.000 such a way that we have the infallible words of God, but this inspiration of the Spirit

00:27:35.860 being subtle enough, strong enough to where we can trust that the Word is God's infallible

00:27:42.960 Word, but subtle enough to where the style, for instance, of the personality, some of

00:27:48.100 the characteristics of the human author actually remain

00:27:50.780 to where you can be reading John and you can be reading Paul

00:27:54.340 and you can get a sense, oh, yeah, this is John.

00:27:57.440 This is the way that John writes, or this is Paul.

00:27:59.580 This is the way that Paul writes. 1.00

00:28:01.400 But with Islam, you know, it's this idea that it's, you know, 1.00

00:28:04.080 just fell out of the sky, you know, written by the finger of God, 0.99

00:28:06.860 and here it is, dropped in Muhammad's lap. 0.87

00:28:08.940 And it's always kind of humorous to me

00:28:11.160 because it seems to be pretty obvious, 1.00

00:28:13.340 even with just a basic working understanding of Islam,

00:28:16.180 that the Quran was written by Muhammad

00:28:20.840 because it actually mirrors Christian teachings.

00:28:25.100 But you can tell that it was written during Muhammad's life

00:28:29.300 if you look at human history and when he was born and when he died

00:28:32.400 because some of the Christian teachings that were circulating

00:28:35.680 during the life of Muhammad when he lived

00:28:38.280 and when he very clearly was writing portions of the Quran,

00:28:42.460 during that time, some of the Christian teachings that were circulating

00:28:45.120 were false teachings and especially Gnostic teachings.

00:28:50.040 And so some of the things that you find in the Quran,

00:28:52.620 talking about Jesus as not the Son of God,

00:28:55.940 but as the prophet, some of the things,

00:28:57.840 talk about Jesus in his infancy or even as a toddler.

00:29:02.720 And so one of the instances is when Mary and Joseph are going,

00:29:07.520 I believe it's when they're heading to Bethlehem

00:29:10.240 that Mary is weary from the journey and that she's thirsty

00:29:13.680 and that Jesus speaks from the womb to a tree

00:29:18.040 and the tree bends over so that Mary can grab fruit.

00:29:21.360 Or there's another instance where Mary is being heckled

00:29:25.260 and mocked by people for, in their eyes, 0.99

00:29:28.480 having a child out of wedlock.

00:29:30.240 And Jesus is still just an infant recently born. 0.51

00:29:33.120 He's nursing at his mother's breast

00:29:36.100 and he turns and stops nursing for a moment and turns.

00:29:41.260 And as an infant talks and rebukes the crowd that's mocking his mother.

00:29:46.860 And those are actually, those are teachings that were floating around in the Christian tradition, but not actually inspired texts from the apostles commissioned by Christ to write scripture, but by Gnostic writers and heretical writers.

00:29:59.900 And so you can see, and they were floating around and became popularized in the specific area where Muhammad was living.

00:30:04.800 And so it's very clear that like he was trying to, it's almost like he was trying to get some kind of credibility for the Quran by piggybacking on Christianity, but he piggybacked accidentally on heretical Gnostic teachings of Christianity without even realizing it because that happened to be what was prevalent in his lifetime.

00:30:23.120 And so the Quran is fairly easily, just from an objective standpoint, easy to date.

00:30:28.720 It's easy to be able to say, yeah, this isn't the eternal word of Allah that existed before time began and fell out of the sky.

00:30:36.300 So anyway, do you have any thoughts on that? 0.85

00:30:39.760 Yeah, I mean, it's very, Islam is also very superstitious, you know, they're very superstitious. 0.95

00:30:47.100 Yeah, explain that, that's interesting. 1.00

00:30:48.400 um oh yeah there's a lot of um just weird things mixed into islam that just um 0.96

00:30:56.340 they believe anything like you know how catholics um see things on the wall and they're like oh 0.99

00:31:01.980 that's mary or they have the same kind of thing it's all the same things like we used to go to

00:31:07.320 visit um you know you go to mashhad in iran where certain prophets have died and they're buried

00:31:14.320 there and they would take um locks and put it at the grave and if it opened your prayers would

00:31:21.820 be answered stuff like that where it's just like it's so sad because people really really believe 0.99

00:31:27.800 in it but islam is one thing about islam that is um false why it's why it's a false religion 0.80

00:31:37.960 It's also because, like other false religions, it's a very works-based religion. 0.98

00:31:44.020 So a Muslim's entrance into paradise hinges on the five pillars of Islam. 0.99

00:31:49.680 Right, I was hoping you would explain those.

00:31:51.380 Yeah, what are the five?

00:31:52.160 Because I know the pilgrimage to Mecca, which I'm assuming that's why your parents did it.

00:31:56.200 That's one of the five, is that right?

00:31:58.520 Yeah, so it's testimony of faith.

00:32:00.660 It is prayer, it is giving, it is fasting, and it is pilgrimage to Mecca.

00:32:05.540 so but even if you do all that perfectly um you can still be rejected by allah um really wow so 0.98

00:32:15.000 there is no assurance of salvation in islam and um so paradise can be earned through keeping the 0.78

00:32:22.760 five pillars in islam but there's no assurance of salvation um yet our bible is that is that 0.97

00:32:30.480 because is that because you may not have have have achieved or been successful with the five

00:32:36.100 pillars enough or is it or does that point towards and it's a genuine question i don't know

00:32:42.000 does that point towards the fact that you know no matter how disciplined you are right so totally

00:32:46.660 it's it's it's certainly a works-based salvation uh but but the lack of assurance was really

00:32:52.360 interesting that you mentioned that and so my question is is it because you you never know if

00:32:55.820 works were good enough or um is there an element with the character of allah where like even if

00:33:02.120 somebody that's what it is the most devoted um muslim you there possibly was and they actually

00:33:07.660 did the works more than any other muslim someone who actually did less works and then might get in 0.75

00:33:11.580 and this person who did more might still not get in because allah is fickle but you can't you can't

00:33:17.040 is it is it so is it because you just don't know god you don't know what allah knows you know you

00:33:22.720 you will never understand him so you will never know so you live in this limbo you know but the

00:33:30.920 bible tells us that you know no amount of good deeds all our righteous deeds are like filthy rags

00:33:37.040 you know complete opposite that you can't buy your salvation you can't bribe god with your good works

00:33:44.400 and it is um that sinful man can never do any of that and it's only by god's grace uh through

00:33:52.160 repent in faith in christ alone amen that you can be saved amen that that's really interesting

00:33:59.660 because it makes me think of two things it makes me think of what you just so beautifully said the

00:34:03.460 gospel that we're you know that so that the the contrast between christianity and islam is first

00:34:09.180 christianity is it's the gospel of grace i'm always fond of telling my congregation both when i was in

00:34:14.280 california and now here in texas that uh the gospel is not a message of the love of god it's a message

00:34:19.120 of the grace of God, because you can have love for a perfect being. God loves his angels, right?

00:34:24.160 But angels, other than a third of the angels who rebelled against God and have never once been

00:34:29.420 offered a single chance of redemption, but the two thirds of angels who have been faithful to God

00:34:34.160 and even cherubim and seraphim and the four living creatures that surround the throne of God,

00:34:38.580 you know, covered in eyes with six wings, you know, and the 24 elders on 24 thrones,

00:34:43.120 all of these angelic beings that have never betrayed God, never sinned against him. God loves

00:34:47.880 them. But the gospel is not a message of love because you can have love for a perfect being,

00:34:53.140 for a being that is perfectly moral. We love God, right? But we don't forgive God. We don't have

00:34:58.740 grace for God. We don't have mercy for God because God doesn't need our grace. He doesn't need mercy

00:35:03.340 because he's never done anything but be deserving, fully and perfectly deserving of our adoration,

00:35:11.060 our worship, our devotion, our love. And so the gospel is not just a message of love. It's a

00:35:17.860 love for those who don't deserve it. It's unmerited favor. So you said that the gospel is

00:35:22.200 grace. And that's one big distinction, one contrast between Christianity and Islam. But 0.93

00:35:27.860 it seems like the other one that you've kind of been saying and that I wanted to pick up on for

00:35:33.100 a moment is also that our God is immutable. So it's not just that our God is a God of grace and

00:35:38.380 mercy, but he's also immutable, meaning that he never changes. And so I think it's Micah or maybe

00:35:44.800 it's Malachi, but the verse that says, behold, I am the Lord. I changeth not so that you, the sons

00:35:50.920 of Jacob are not consumed. Meaning that there's something about not just the mercy of God and the

00:35:56.740 grace of God, but there's something about the, the immutability of God, his, his unchangingness

00:36:03.860 for lack of a, a real word. Cause I don't think that's a real word, but the immutability of God,

00:36:08.800 the fact that he never changes is the Christian's good. It is a Christian's good that our God

00:36:14.600 doesn't fly off the handle, that our God is not fickle, that he's not easily swayed.

00:36:19.500 You know, we have verses in the scripture that talk about, you know, the Lord was grieved

00:36:22.520 that he made man or, you know, or the Lord repented or some translations say, I believe

00:36:28.700 the King James or other translations say regretted.

00:36:31.340 But even in those instances, we have to understand that underneath the banner of the doctrine

00:36:36.080 of analogy, it's anthropopathic language, which is a big word, but it's God doesn't

00:36:40.600 really have emotions in the same way that anthropomorphic language means that

00:36:44.360 God, God doesn't actually have physical attributes. He's a, he's a spirit and those

00:36:48.900 who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth. So God doesn't, you know, his right arm

00:36:53.080 is mighty to save, but God doesn't have a literal right arm, you know, or his eyes go to and fro

00:36:58.320 over there. In the same way, God also, it's not like he was on a dime, you know, happy because

00:37:04.160 the Israelites did something good. And then he was really sad because they disappointed him. God is

00:37:08.420 not in process. He's not, he's not a man, right? The Bible says he is not a man that he should

00:37:14.060 repent, or he is not a man that he should change his mind. And that's something that Christians 1.00

00:37:19.340 really need to see tied into the gospel, the immutability of God, the fact that he never

00:37:26.000 changes. He's the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. And the idea that he is the omniscient

00:37:31.600 God, he's the immutable God, but that's tied into his omniscience. The fact that one of the reasons

00:37:37.440 he never changes, not only because his immutable essence, but because of his omniscience, meaning

00:37:42.680 me and you, we change because we come into new information. We learn new things, but God is not

00:37:48.320 in process. He's omniscient. He knows the end from the beginning. And that's such good news to us

00:37:53.080 because what that means is that, you know, I might be really bummed out tomorrow. If I,

00:37:58.100 if I sin in some way that, that, that, you know, that I'm not aware of today, it's a surprise to

00:38:03.780 me, but God is never surprised. God made the choice before the foundations of the earth were

00:38:07.620 laid to in love to elect me to foreknow me and and elect me and choose me and give his son jesus

00:38:16.080 to die for me knowing good and well fully all the heinous things that i haven't even done yet but

00:38:22.680 that i will do and so there's something powerful about not just that you know christianity is is

00:38:28.520 the the doctrine the gospel of grace not just love but grace and mercy but it also is a grace

00:38:34.740 and mercy that proceeds from the immutable, unchanging God.

00:38:38.980 And it sounds like what you're saying is really two things, that Allah in Islam, not only

00:38:44.040 is it a doctrine of works, a works-based salvation, but even if you work hard enough, not only

00:38:50.140 because you're unsure of how good your works were, but you're also unsure of the character

00:38:54.300 of the God that you're working for.

00:38:56.300 Yeah, he's not constant.

00:38:57.800 Yeah.

00:38:58.360 He's not constant.

00:38:59.580 Yeah.

00:39:00.100 So anyways, I said a lot there and I'm sure you maybe had a few thoughts.

00:39:03.220 So go ahead if there's something you want to. 0.92

00:39:06.300 No, but like everything you said is exactly right about Islam.

00:39:11.420 So it's, I think that's why also people don't have, you know, because we know fully that we're forgiven.

00:39:20.360 We have this, we can find the strength to say, I'm forgiven of everything.

00:39:25.040 And you trust that God is faithful to forgive you.

00:39:30.260 You have the strength to forgive others. 1.00

00:39:32.160 but islam doesn't have that so there's no they can't they can't put their strength in anything 1.00

00:39:38.040 to say well allah forgave me because they don't know if he has they don't know if you know what 0.90

00:39:42.980 i mean so there's this um there's no um security in believing in allah you know and also the

00:39:52.440 teachings of islam they not alone do they they deny the truth about everything about christ 0.84

00:40:00.420 And unfortunately, Muslims don't comprehend how Allah would allow his prophet Esau, Jesus, to die a horrible death on a cross. 0.99

00:40:12.460 So to them, they see it as weakness. 0.97

00:40:15.280 You know, to them, they would be like, why would, you know, why would he allow him to die if he's God or if he's, you know, even his prophet?

00:40:22.600 but the bible again shows us how the death of the perfect sinless son of god is the only way

00:40:31.660 to atone for our sins so everything we believe they they turn it upside down and they don't 0.89

00:40:38.920 believe that so that's really profound yeah and it's and it's funny that actually islam even 0.91

00:40:45.460 though it's this religion of works and you think of just all these rules and regulations and and

00:40:51.060 heavy burdens laid upon the you know the adherence of islam and all these kind of things and yet 0.87

00:40:57.620 the irony is that um it's not a heavier view of the holiness of allah and the sinfulness of man 0.96

00:41:06.080 it's actually a much that islam in my assessment has a much lighter not heavier but a much lighter 0.88

00:41:12.840 view of sin because it's it's a sin that man in himself can still in his own effort in his own 0.85

00:41:20.080 will, his own strength atone for. Whereas in the Christian faith, we're saying, no, no, no. It's

00:41:26.140 like, well, God, I want to make this up to you. You know what? Why don't you sit a couple plays

00:41:30.160 out? That's cute. I don't think you understand, son, daughter, how sinful you actually are.

00:41:36.680 You can't make this up to me. For your sin to be atoned for, it took my son bleeding out at

00:41:46.060 calvary and drinking the full cup of the white hot wrath of god and so it's not as christianity

00:41:52.120 it's not a lighter um idea of holiness and and sin and um it's actually a much heavier view of

00:42:00.420 all those things uh infinitely so because uh because the only thing that's enough is death

00:42:07.180 the wages of sin is death there is there is no substitute uh for death someone has to die

00:42:13.800 either you or the savior in your place back to you i'm sorry no don't be um one thing i feel like 0.78

00:42:22.220 islam is heavy on is the fear of god but not in the way we fear god where it's the reverence 0.77

00:42:28.340 you love him and you want to honor him that's why you fear him in a you know it's islam is like 0.94

00:42:34.440 i'm afraid like you freeze you want to you know what i mean when you just can't move 1.00

00:42:39.920 that's the kind of fear that they feed you so okay it's uh again it's an upside down kind of

00:42:47.980 thing you know right completely that's another really good that's another really good insight

00:42:53.700 i can't remember the text i'm gonna this is a bold move in an episode to actually try to find

00:42:59.980 a text i know it's hebrews i want to say it's hebrews too somebody who's going to listen to

00:43:03.480 this is going to be like they're going to know what it is and i don't know what it is and they're

00:43:07.060 going to be shouting at their computer trying to tell me the reference but anyways uh it's when

00:43:11.940 jesus um it's when oh nailed it oh my goodness it's hebrews 2 i knew it hebrews 2 verse 14 thanks

00:43:19.980 verse 14 and 15 says this since therefore the children share in flesh and blood he being christ

00:43:25.740 himself likewise partook of the same things so the incarnation took on flesh the divine took on

00:43:31.460 flesh, that through death, that is his death on the cross, he being Christ might destroy the one

00:43:38.680 who has the power of death, that is the devil and deliver, verse 15 is key and deliver all those who

00:43:46.960 through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. Fear, this is my point, fear and slavery

00:43:55.800 go hand in hand. You can't be a slave apart from fear. That's, that's the weapon. That's the,

00:44:02.340 those are the chains, the chains that, that ultimately enslave are the chains of fear. 0.98

00:44:10.360 And so any false religion, and not just, you know, false religion of Islam, but the false 0.54

00:44:15.260 religion of secularism, right? You know, we were talking about that before we started recording 0.91

00:44:20.420 the false religion of secularism same thing how how how do you if you're if you're an elite if

00:44:26.740 you're the civil magistrate you're some kind of ruling elite somebody in power and and you want

00:44:31.180 to accrue more authority more power uh how do you get it well you can't get more power unless

00:44:36.500 unless people are willing to give it to you forfeit it so you have to enslave them so what

00:44:40.980 do you use what's your tactic what's your strategy fear hey coronavirus everybody's gonna die you

00:44:47.120 You know, and so, you know, and, and, you know, the, you know, that it's the old adage, I think Hillary Clinton even said it, you know, that never let a good crisis go to waste, which is like, it's like, what?

00:44:57.480 How do you like, I mean, you can't even hear that without cringing.

00:45:00.740 It's like, why would you say that?

00:45:02.660 And aren't, aren't you ashamed that that just came out of you?

00:45:05.900 But that's, that's the, that's the mindset.

00:45:08.320 So whether it's the false religion of Islam or the false religion of Joe Biden, you know, either way, secularism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, there's always this sense of the people are enslaved.

00:45:21.160 And what I love about that text, Hebrews chapter two, verse 14 and 15 is the scripture, the Christian scripture says that all people were enslaved, particularly, specifically to the fear of death and that Jesus took on flesh and by his death.

00:45:39.900 So Jesus, by his death, ransomed us, delivered us from slavery, lifelong, it says lifelong slavery to the fear of death.

00:45:48.800 And it seems like that's what you're saying, that precious people made in the image of God who are steeped in Islam, there's just this constant fear. 0.68

00:45:59.180 And you bifurcate and say, you know, the fear that they have is very different than the way that we're commanded as Christians to fear the Lord.

00:46:04.960 And I think one of the big differences is it's the fear of God himself, which is what the Christians commanded to have, that reverence and awe of God, versus the fear of what God might do to me.

00:46:15.860 the fear of God's judgment, the fear of, exactly. And so that's what it is. It's the fear of death.

00:46:23.060 And it's really, to me, it seems like it's the fear of death at the hand of Allah. It's the fear

00:46:28.000 of, of the judgment of God rather than the fear of God himself. So it's not even that Allah is so 0.82

00:46:33.260 holy and so, so awe inspiring that, that I tremble with R.C. Sproul used to say, you know,

00:46:40.800 it's a sense of trembling in fear, but also exhilaration, excitement, right? Adrenaline.

00:46:46.480 It's like to stand in the presence of God will be this, it'll be like, on one hand,

00:46:52.960 it's almost like a sense is we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll like, we can't take it. It's like, I, you

00:46:58.040 know, I, I don't know if I want to be here any longer. And yet at the very same time, it's like,

00:47:01.980 how can I be anywhere else? I want to see, I want to know him and be known by him. And so it's this

00:47:07.880 awe in spite, like, like lightning and thunder that you're just like, wow, like it, like it

00:47:13.940 crashes. You're afraid, but you're in awe. Yeah. But you're in awe. Like if you know that the

00:47:19.040 lightning is not going to strike you, right. You somehow have this guarantee that you're not going

00:47:23.120 to be the object of, of, of the lightning that it actually strikes. Then, then there's, there's this

00:47:28.920 trembling of fear, but also this exhilaration, this excitement. And that's the fear, the Christian 1.00

00:47:36.060 fear that that children of God have for our our heavenly father we fear God there's a difference

00:47:42.700 in fearing God himself versus fearing uh what what what God might do to us fearing God's judgment

00:47:49.440 fearing death at the hand of God and it sounds like that's what you're saying that that the

00:47:53.880 Muslim has this not a fear of Allah so much that Allah is such this incredible awe-inspiring

00:48:01.520 beautiful um robust being but rather it's it's all the things that all law could do to you

00:48:07.560 if you don't shape it's like a child your child obeying you out of fear of being punished or

00:48:14.080 obeying you because he actually loves you and respects you there's a complete difference you

00:48:18.580 know one is a um sick relationship like it's not healthy do you know what i mean like that's not

00:48:25.860 what you want even for your children um so yeah yep no you're right so okay so some of the

00:48:33.080 distinctions just to kind of recap for a moment because you you've you've listed some good things

00:48:37.720 so you're saying one is this idea of fear um fear of god versus a fear of allah and and really his

00:48:44.900 judgment his punishment another is works-based salvation versus grace-based uh and with that

00:48:51.040 You know, we talked about the idea that Allah isn't constant.

00:48:56.280 There's no guarantees. 0.92

00:48:58.040 And whereas the immutability of the Christian God, the triune God, he never changes. 0.98

00:49:02.980 And the fact that he never changes is our good. 0.99

00:49:05.300 Behold, I am the Lord that changes not so that you, the sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

00:49:10.260 As kind of implying implicitly, there's this idea that God might flare up in his wrath and consume us because of a whim.

00:49:18.980 But that our God doesn't do that.

00:49:20.720 His constantness, his steadiness is our good.

00:49:26.720 And so those are some of the difference.

00:49:28.260 So grace-based versus works-based, not constant versus immutable, fear of judgment, fear of death versus an actual fear of God himself in reverence.

00:49:40.200 Were there any other distinctions that you mentioned that I'm forgetting or another one that you wanted to mention?

00:49:47.220 Those are some great ones.

00:49:48.440 yeah i'm sure there's more but those are what i could think of for now that's great those are

00:49:55.780 great to highlight uh real quick uh just for our listeners so i i can't even do it so i'm gonna

00:50:00.520 have to rely on you uh could you also recount what were the five pillars again in in the works that

00:50:06.440 a muslim has to perform so it's a testimony of faith prayer and what what is that real quick

00:50:12.580 is that just kind of like a profession you know how they say la ilaha illallah like

00:50:17.580 allah is the only god something like that so you profess that allah is is god um is that a

00:50:24.920 one-time thing is that a one-time thing i believe so okay okay yeah i i believe so i don't i don't

00:50:31.820 know to be honest exactly how you do that but um you know given that in one of the verses it says

00:50:39.200 you know um lay in ambush and you know attack the unbeliever whatever but if they profess the faith 0.99

00:50:46.300 leave them alone they're good so it's like a quick thing you say and you're you know what i mean 1.00

00:50:50.200 yeah like almost like put put a gun to your head and say it pretty much yeah yeah okay um the

00:50:58.360 testimony of faith praying fasting giving and pilgrimage to mecca and with with praying and

00:51:05.500 fasting if my memory serves me that it's it's very specific so it's not just like and you have

00:51:11.920 to pray you know like sometimes like five times a day exactly because christians really hey i'm

00:51:17.000 praying for you and it's like oh are you are not at all like that yeah so it's like no you really

00:51:22.060 have to pray and it's very specific it's five times a day and and is it at certain times is

00:51:27.560 that right yeah so it's like before the sunrise before the sunset in the middle of the day and

00:51:33.340 you have to um do the whole ritual where you um wash your face wash it's like so you go and you

00:51:40.440 like wash pour water over your hands over your face across your head and put water on your feet 0.94

00:51:47.900 and women have to cover up with a hijab and chador and everything and you have to face mecca

00:51:53.860 face mecca that's right yeah and what is uh if you're familiar what is um so that's prayer what

00:52:01.000 does fasting look like are there any specifics for how often you have during ramadan okay explain

00:52:06.620 explain that what is ramadan oh my goodness i should know this but basically it's like a month

00:52:12.340 holy month where you um you fast before the sun sunrise so you eat before sunrise

00:52:21.140 and you don't eat or drink um until sun until the sun goes down yeah okay so that's your way

00:52:28.840 Yeah. You said like, it's a whole month. It makes me think of Lent sometimes, you know,

00:52:34.220 even, even with Protestants, you know, they, there's some hangovers from, uh, from Rome is 0.87

00:52:39.600 what I call it, the Rome hangover. So they'll still practice Lent, you know, or observe it and 0.98

00:52:44.000 say, well, it's still just, you know, it's a good principle or a good practice. And sometimes,

00:52:48.320 you know, somebody will ask me, Hey, are you giving anything up for Lent? You know? And I

00:52:51.620 always say, yeah, I'm giving up Catholicism. I'm giving up Rome. I'm giving up the Pope

00:52:55.160 and i'm devoting myself i'm devoting myself to scripture i'm devoting myself to bacon i'm

00:53:00.220 devoting myself you know anyways but i'm not a lint uh a lint follower so but that's what it

00:53:06.200 made me think of a month of okay so that's fasting so prayer it's five times a day facing mecca you

00:53:11.320 got the washing cleansing ceremony um certain times of the day fasting it's the the month

00:53:17.600 um say it again ramadan how do you say ramadan yeah ramadan and and that's a fasting basically

00:53:24.380 whenever the sun is up so you can eat right before sunrise and you have to wait till sunset

00:53:28.500 and so that's that's prayer that's fasting you said testimony and then there's the journey to

00:53:34.280 you have to that's just you need to do that at least once if you can afford it at least once

00:53:39.380 in your life and what was the the fourth one before giving okay are there any specifications

00:53:46.140 on that honestly i think it's just giving to the poor it's a big thing yeah okay all right

00:53:53.860 yeah okay so with that uh kind of last question with islam and then we'll start to wrap up because 0.99

00:53:59.360 i know that we're kind of starting to get a little bit short on time but with islam so we've kind of

00:54:04.560 got a basic sense it's a workspace religion um allah is not constant he's not immutable it's not 0.72

00:54:10.080 grace-based it's not mercy there's a denial that's what you said earlier there's a denial of the

00:54:15.020 gospel and that jesus even died right because they see that as weakness i couldn't help but think

00:54:19.180 when you said that, I thought of what Paul says about, um, about the Greek and the Jew, you know,

00:54:24.380 that it's, it's foolishness. The gospel is foolishness to the Greek and it's an offense 0.77

00:54:28.560 to the Jew. And, uh, and it's, we could say it's, it's, you know, it's an offense to the Jew. It's 0.98

00:54:33.900 foolishness to, um, to the Greek and it's weakness, um, to the Muslim. Um, and so, so that was a 1.00

00:54:41.900 really helpful point that you made. And there's the sense of, you know, fearing, um, Allah and

00:54:47.220 his judgment, what he's going to do to you. And it's never enough rather than actual fear of God

00:54:52.080 himself, because who God is, is so majestic and so awe inspiring. So with all that, the last kind

00:54:59.040 of question that I have is just, is Islam, a lot of people ask this, but I just would like to hear

00:55:03.960 your take on it. Is Islam, is it fair to say Islam is a violent religion? Does the Quran command 0.99

00:55:11.440 Muslims to be violent towards non-Muslims and a further question if that if the answer is yes 0.97

00:55:18.140 assuming that your answer is yes how would you respond to someone who would object um and I can 0.98

00:55:23.460 think of a ton of people who wouldn't even they're not even Muslims themselves but they would say oh

00:55:27.240 no you know because that's it's a strong statement it's it's you know and they would say no that's

00:55:30.900 not fair you know Islam isn't it doesn't it doesn't perpetuate doesn't advocate for violence

00:55:35.940 And their basis would be, they say, there are millions of Muslims who are peaceful.

00:55:41.840 So how would you, first, what is your answer?

00:55:44.900 Does it promote violence?

00:55:46.120 And then how would you respond to someone who says, but there's so many peaceful Muslims? 0.75

00:55:50.900 Well, I certainly wouldn't call Islam a religion of peace, like many people try to do.

00:55:57.920 Now, this doesn't mean that Islam, Islamic belief makes Muslims violent.

00:56:04.560 like that's not true there's a difference um however the violent acts that have been committed

00:56:11.340 in the name of islam can't be divorced from the religion itself right it's one and the same

00:56:18.600 and why is that because somebody could you know just to play the devil's advocate i could say

00:56:23.300 well the violent acts of the crusades can't be divorced from the christian faith but but i think

00:56:29.640 you and i would both say no that's a bug not a feature right in the same way that i would look

00:56:33.980 to the founding of of the united states and you know in the constitution i would say slavery was

00:56:38.560 a bug but not the feature and that the constitution actually um in the declaration of independence

00:56:44.360 um actually is what laid the framework for eventually abolishing uh slavery but but with 0.83

00:56:50.040 islam you're saying no it can't be divorced so you're it sounds like what you're saying is no

00:56:53.600 the actual doctrines lend towards this could you talk about that so they they go to the quran to

00:56:59.680 justify the violence act so the call to violence and the justification for it are explicitly taught

00:57:09.240 in the quran so um violence is in islam is like a theologically sanctioned so they justify it by 0.82

00:57:22.000 using the Quran. So these violent doctrines that are taught in the Quran, they can be activated by 0.99

00:57:32.960 a number of offenses, like apostasy, blasphemy, adultery, homosexuality, theft. So for example,

00:57:45.280 in Iran or Saudi Arabia, I'm sure other places like Afghanistan, they will cut off the hands 0.97

00:57:53.140 or fingers of thieves. And they don't just make that up. They use the Quran. 0.97

00:58:02.920 Surah 538, it says, as for the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense 0.58

00:58:09.240 for what they earned, committed as a deterrent punishment from Allah. And Allah is exalted in

00:58:14.880 might and wise so that they're using the Quran and that is that is a violent doctrine in the 0.96

00:58:22.480 Quran you can't deny that I feel bad for the person who was stolen from what I love about 1.00

00:58:28.660 Christian doctrine in the Old Testament is that if someone steals what what God's law demands is 0.92

00:58:36.300 that they make double restitution cut off my hand it's like okay so I can't even work to do anything

00:58:42.200 Exactly. I've been severely punished for stealing, but the person I stole from is no better off.

00:58:46.980 Whereas in Christian doctrine, the issue is, no, you need to make right the wrong.

00:58:51.980 The person that you stole from, they need to receive the restoration of their property with interest.

00:58:57.860 Go ahead. Any other verses?

00:59:00.900 true so yeah i have a few um but the quran teaches so quran teaches these violent doctrines

00:59:09.220 and they're clearly proven to be harmful and deadly when um these doctrines are interpreted 0.52

00:59:18.420 by groups like isis or al-qaeda or you know regimes like iran because it all depends who's 0.93

00:59:25.540 interpreting it you know so right right the nominal muslims would say no no no the peaceful

00:59:34.600 versus abrogate those ones but that's not how how those groups see it right so for example um in

00:59:43.140 iran the official religion is shia islam um there are minority religion the religious groups like

00:59:52.880 jews the rostrians and christians and by christians i don't mean me that has converted

01:00:00.780 to is from islam to christianity i mean like armenians who are born into christianity so

01:00:07.660 they're they're they're recognized as a minority group but the the government by the way they act

01:00:16.360 and treat them they are they are not safe they're not they're not living in freedom in iran you know

01:00:24.120 what i mean so or and even even muslims who are um challenging the government in any way or who 0.97

01:00:33.080 are against any laws um even a muslim who identifies as a homosexual they're all going to be 0.60

01:00:42.360 either imprisoned, slogged, persecuted. 1.00

01:00:47.180 I mean, there is no peaceful way to address those people in Islam, 0.99

01:00:54.040 especially in Iran and Saudi Arabia, et cetera. 0.97

01:00:59.280 So that's speaking of the way that Islam deals with people

01:01:06.460 who actually are Muslim themselves in many cases,

01:01:09.280 but are not upholding Islamic doctrine.

01:01:13.840 But what are some of the specifics that Islam or the Quran would say

01:01:18.940 in how to treat people who are not Muslim? 1.00

01:01:23.480 How do you deal with the infidel? 1.00

01:01:27.280 The infidel, yeah, me, with me. 1.00

01:01:30.860 The unbeliever. 0.92

01:01:33.340 So the Quran contains verses, like we talked about,

01:01:36.740 that Muslims believe Allah revealed to Muhammad, to their prophet Muhammad.

01:01:42.740 And these laws and these commandments were revealed to him during different circumstances

01:01:50.580 and different times. So when he was during war or during peaceful times. So how these,

01:01:58.820 and some of these verses they exhort to go commit violence against infidels, 0.91

01:02:06.020 against the enemies and anyone who's not muslim is their enemy really um i mean i forgot to tell 0.73

01:02:14.680 you but like when i was in grade two we would have to line up if we're going inside to our 0.72

01:02:20.140 classrooms and we would have to chant death upon america death upon israel i mean that's just

01:02:25.760 something you do yeah so wow you're you know you're trained to think of americans in israel

01:02:33.640 uh as america does that now too actually and i think uh kindergarten through second grade

01:02:40.140 america ironically also is trains their kids to say death upon america that's a joke but uh not

01:02:47.260 not too far not really yeah american in the school system they're getting pretty pretty

01:02:53.740 diligent about training kids to hate our own country yeah that's very sad yeah it's very sad

01:03:00.200 anyways so about the verses you wanted to know um yeah so i have a few here so surah 3 151 says

01:03:09.560 we shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve all non-muslims surah 2 191 and kill 0.98

01:03:16.600 them wherever you find them kill them such is the recompense of the of the disbelievers surah 9 5 1.00

01:03:23.120 then kill the disbelievers wherever you find them capture them and besiege them and lie in wait for 1.00

01:03:28.260 them in each and every ambush. So if Muslims like Osama bin Laden believe that they're being 1.00

01:03:36.720 oppressed, that they're being unjustly treated, that they're going to go to these

01:03:42.660 verses and declare jihad against the enemy. They're going to use those verses and they're

01:03:51.280 not going to say, oh yeah, the peaceful ones abrogated these ones. No, they're going to use

01:03:56.000 these verses to justify their violent end so um again to play the devil's advocate for just a

01:04:04.100 moment you know somebody might say well there are verses in the old testament where you know i mean

01:04:07.780 god quite literally called his people israel to commit genocide to wipe out entire nations

01:04:14.140 men women and uh children and i think what i would say and i want to see if you have a thought on this

01:04:20.840 if you would agree, but what I would say is one of the things that's different, God did do that

01:04:26.500 and he was just and righteous and holy in doing so because God has the right to punish

01:04:32.100 the wicked and sometimes he does it with fire and brimstone and like in the case of Sodom

01:04:38.560 and sometimes he waits and does it on the final day of judgment, the life to come in hell and

01:04:44.240 sometimes he does it in this life not through literal fire and brimstone but sometimes he does

01:04:49.340 it through human agency. God, who is sovereign over all, sometimes the rod that he wields in

01:04:57.800 order to exact justice is war. And in the case of Israel, Israel was being used. So it wasn't

01:05:06.560 just because God loved Israel, he wanted them to inherit the land, right? We always think, 0.74

01:05:12.280 well, it's because God loved Israel, but man, what about those other nations? God loved Israel so

01:05:17.180 much. He just gave them rights to kill everybody else. No, it's a double-sided coin. On the one 1.00

01:05:22.780 hand, God loved Israel and chose them. On the other hand, these other nations were pagan nations 0.92

01:05:31.660 doing atrocious, wicked things. And God had been very slow and very patient in storing up his wrath 1.00

01:05:39.280 against pagans, the wicked, who were sacrificing their children, babies, to Molech and false gods 0.64

01:05:46.880 and things like this, you know, like, again, like we do in abortion.

01:05:50.560 And God was very patient and slow to anger.

01:05:53.460 And then he used Israel as his agent of justice towards him.

01:06:00.280 But all that being said, what I would say is this, you know, because you could say,

01:06:03.900 well, you know, somebody could probably make an argument similar to that,

01:06:07.160 at least in the case of the verses that you just read from the Quran.

01:06:11.740 But what I would say is also in the Old Testament,

01:06:14.780 it's very clear that God's speaking to Israel. So when God says these things, it's not a universal

01:06:20.600 principle for all of God's people in all places throughout all of human history. It's what God

01:06:27.160 is saying to a particular people, namely Israel, at a particular time, in a particular instance.

01:06:33.680 And so I appreciate when theologians, they say, all scripture is for us, but not all scripture

01:06:39.000 is to us. And it's important that we understand the difference. All scripture is God-breathed,

01:06:42.860 And it's all useful for training, rebuking, all these things to make the man of God perfect.

01:06:48.240 It's sufficient.

01:06:49.040 It's good.

01:06:49.420 And so there's no, there's not one single verse in the Bible that is not for the, for

01:06:55.760 every single believer, for you, for me, and for anybody else who hopes and trusts in Christ.

01:07:00.800 But not all scripture is to us.

01:07:03.120 Paul, when he's writing first and second Timothy, he's, it's to Timothy.

01:07:07.020 Now we glean a lot by being kind of this third party onlooker reading it.

01:07:11.900 it's for us um but it was to timothy and and in the old testament when god says things like wipe

01:07:17.760 out this entire nation of women and children and um and and the even the cattle and livestock um

01:07:25.040 that is for us i mean there's something that we can learn from that but that's not to us he's not

01:07:29.700 saying hasty joel go and do he's he's saying israel at this time in this place with these

01:07:37.640 particular people this particular nation and whereas the verses that you just read and granted

01:07:42.640 you just read a couple verses and we didn't read an entire excerpt you know back out and get get

01:07:47.440 the context but i'd be willing to bet i could be wrong but i'd be willing to bet um that that the

01:07:52.580 context isn't saying these particular muslims with these particular infidels at this particular time 0.95

01:07:59.280 lie and wait and ambush and kill them it seems like it's a universal principle for all those 0.97

01:08:05.260 who claim to be worshipers of Allah towards all unbelievers in any place, in any time. 0.99

01:08:12.800 Is that correct? 0.97

01:08:13.920 Well, that's how they interpret it.

01:08:17.260 That's why if I go back to Iran, I will be in prison. 0.96

01:08:21.620 And unless I say, you know, I repent and I'll turn back to Islam, they will execute me. 1.00

01:08:30.880 There's no... 0.99

01:08:32.260 So they will, they, again, the death penalty is for apostasy is death penalty. 0.97

01:08:38.620 That's, and they're going to use the Quran to justify that. 0.96

01:08:43.160 Right, right. 0.88

01:08:44.340 Yeah.

01:08:44.780 And it's, but it's, I guess my point is it's more than just, that's how you said, that's

01:08:49.560 how it's interpreted.

01:08:50.900 But in my assessment and from the little bit of study that I've done with the Quran and

01:08:55.920 with Islam, it seems that it's, it's not just that that's the way it's interpreted.

01:09:00.120 it seems that's the way that the Quran is actually

01:09:02.300 written and it's not just

01:09:03.900 an interpretation, it's what it says

01:09:06.800 the people who will

01:09:08.160 object to that will say that's

01:09:10.200 how it's interpreted and that's

01:09:12.160 not, do you know what I mean?

01:09:14.340 Yes, I know exactly what you mean

01:09:15.780 and I think that's

01:09:18.000 and therein lies the difference

01:09:19.620 because I think what you and I would both say

01:09:21.780 is that those who say well that's their

01:09:23.900 interpretation, you and I would both

01:09:26.100 categorize them as actually

01:09:27.720 the liberal Muslim

01:09:29.740 the person who's actually so we would say that although we disagree with the actions we disagree

01:09:34.720 with the content of the quran and we disagree with those who are actually fulfilling it and and

01:09:39.480 acting it out um but we would say that they actually have the more faithful yeah interpretation

01:09:46.900 pretty much because they would actually um they would kill those people too the ones that are 0.98

01:09:52.680 saying this is not islam so right so the muslims that are saying no no you know what i mean yes 0.99

01:09:58.960 and but it's yeah so that's that's what they would do that's how they read it but 0.97

01:10:03.200 even more than that it's it's very clearly that's it's what it says it's what it said whereas whereas

01:10:10.280 with you know with the old testament in israel and and their conquests and things like that when

01:10:15.280 god called them to inflict violence and war it's very easy for me to make the explanation that i

01:10:21.080 just made all scripture being for us but not all of it is to us and this was particular to israel

01:10:25.280 And Israel is right there in the verse, right? 0.96

01:10:28.340 Israel, do this to this nation. 1.00

01:10:30.620 It's not just my interpretation. 0.99

01:10:32.860 It's in the text.

01:10:34.520 It's not just the way I'm reading it.

01:10:36.920 It's the way it was written. 1.00

01:10:39.260 Like a Christian wouldn't be able to use that now and kill someone. 1.00

01:10:43.000 Exactly. 1.00

01:10:43.640 Exactly. 0.98

01:10:44.260 And if they did, it would be faithful Christians. 0.97

01:10:46.860 We would say you are not a Christian.

01:10:48.480 Yeah, we would say you're not a Christian and you have so clearly interpreted this wrongly.

01:10:54.300 Whereas in the case of Islam, although it is true that the mass majority of Muslims, as far as I can tell, are very peaceful people, they would, my point is this, I said it earlier, but I'll say it again, violence, when there is that outlier, right?

01:11:13.700 That person who claims to be a Christian and, and yet they are responsible for a school 0.97

01:11:19.860 shooting or, or the man, for instance, who, you know, who went to a Christian church and

01:11:24.020 claimed to be Christian and said that he was struggling, uh, with lust and, and he went

01:11:29.060 and shot up, um, a bunch of massage parlors and killed a number of, of women.

01:11:35.080 Um, we, we would look at that and we, we would be able to, you know, we would say that guy

01:11:40.760 was off his rocker and probably needed some serious medical help and that is uh that that

01:11:46.300 is not a christian action and that's also not christian doctrine and again to be fair the

01:11:52.100 muslim would say you know with 9-11 right they would say that's not muslim doctrine and that's

01:11:57.040 not a muslim action but when you look at but it is a doctrine yeah that's right and you look at

01:12:02.920 the christian text i have a text where i can say nowhere in this text will you find us and but but

01:12:08.480 then with with the quran i can say yeah i see how that guy got there yeah i i feel like you know 0.70

01:12:15.440 like you're saying that this guy's off his rocker and that he's crazy and that's just this horrible

01:12:19.800 interpretation but that seems like a much plainer reading of the quran because they're basically

01:12:25.980 imitating their leader right they're imitating muhammad that's their claim that's right yeah

01:12:31.320 Anything else you want to add on the issue that we've been discussing of violence and Islam?

01:12:39.640 I think that was really good. Is there anything else? 1.00

01:12:42.600 I would reiterate that most Muslims that I know and that I've known have been gracious, peace-loving people. 1.00

01:12:54.000 And that's because they don't practice Islam, really.

01:12:56.080 that's the reason they're very nominal just like i was a nominal muslim um i mean i used to go to 0.61

01:13:03.420 mosque i used with my parents i used to pray i used to fast and i wholeheartedly rejected a lot 0.87

01:13:09.340 of islam laws and um you know um so i understand when they when people are like but look at all 0.91

01:13:18.860 these peaceful people right you know what i mean right so we the same way that i wouldn't want to

01:13:24.880 be stereotyped as a christian like um i don't know like um there are many types of christians

01:13:31.880 right so there are those who just profess by name and just take the label of a religion but they

01:13:37.560 don't really apply they don't believe anything about it or practice it and and there's those

01:13:43.920 who actually profess faith in christ but they just profess it but they don't have faith they

01:13:49.960 don't possess faith in christ they don't actually live it they're not saved they're not christian

01:13:54.480 so it's the same way i wouldn't be like yeah yeah i'm i'm a christian they would be like you know

01:13:59.520 there's tons of christians in denmark by name right it's a christian country but you go and

01:14:04.940 you're like oh no definitely not a christian country this is a very secular country and

01:14:11.260 culture so um and like muslims are a large group of people they're all defined by their following 0.60

01:14:19.100 of islam but they're very different so they're like indonesian muslim is different than turkish 0.68

01:14:23.980 muslims and turkish muslims are different than malaysian muslims so they're all very different

01:14:29.340 and they can't be grouped into one you know um so there's um you know there's a cultural aspect

01:14:38.260 to the religion yeah there's elements of of islam that certain muslims uh carry they have to be 0.99

01:14:45.680 like and it has elements of peacefulness in it but they have to it's a huge uh different

01:14:52.660 different from the jihadist militant jihadist muslims um so you can't we can't lump them

01:15:00.080 together so yeah if people um say that i i agree with them i would say i would say islam is still 0.93

01:15:08.840 a false religion um yes it's uh they don't follow the true god but not all muslims are the same so 1.00

01:15:16.800 Right. No, I agree. I think the vast majority of Muslims, as far as I can tell, are peaceful people. And yet, I would say that the outlier, and just to be fair, I don't think that the outlier is quite as much of an outlier as we have within Christianity, at least today. 1.00

01:15:41.100 Today, yeah, there are some examples of violent Christians, but there are really few and far between. 0.69

01:15:47.280 Whereas when it comes to Islam, present time today, we have, it's not like it's just, you know, one in a million or a needle in a haystack. 1.00

01:15:56.700 There's a lot of violent Muslims. 1.00

01:15:59.460 I'm still willing to say that it's not the majority, but it's certainly a higher percentage. 1.00

01:16:04.140 i feel completely confident saying there's a higher percentage of of violent muslims today 1.00

01:16:10.100 than there are violent christians today and and i think my whole point is to say i you know so 1.00

01:16:18.580 that's not it's not fair to say all but would you call them would you call them christians though

01:16:23.880 like i'm like well yeah yeah i know you know what i mean so what i should say but i know what you

01:16:29.700 yeah but what i should say is just professing yeah that's what i mean in terms of professing

01:16:35.660 christians so even among professing christians who you raise a great point you and i would both say

01:16:40.680 well that that person's probably not regenerate um at the end of the day you know we don't have

01:16:45.200 election goggles and so we don't know for sure but but we can look at the fruit of a person

01:16:49.700 jesus speaks to that and so uh and so we could say yeah i don't even think that person is a christian

01:16:54.120 but what i'm saying is just those who would bear the name those who would profess although like

01:16:58.960 you said not necessarily possess salvation but they would profess um and so with professing

01:17:04.920 christians even which would be broader than those who are actually true christians um it still would

01:17:10.420 be a sliver it would be it would be a a serious minority that would be violent and yet within

01:17:17.400 islam although yes millions of of peaceful muslims and perhaps still a minority of those who are 0.66

01:17:24.380 violent it's still a we have to be honest in saying it's it's not just a needle in a haystack

01:17:29.080 it's not just a sliver it may be a minority but it's a it's a much significantly larger percentage 0.97

01:17:34.460 and i'll tell you one thing is that i say that that there are lots of peaceful muslims but for

01:17:43.080 example um my mom went back to iran um i don't remember many years back now but she was a

01:17:50.640 Christian and her family knew that she was a Christian so these are the our family members

01:17:56.120 so her brother and and one of her brothers didn't even want to touch her because she's unclean now

01:18:02.000 um didn't didn't hug her didn't after years of not seeing her so because he's upset that she's

01:18:09.060 converted so that's one thing too where um now he's not going to kill her but he is disgusted

01:18:16.140 okay so that's another thing where you're like wow like that is really severe way of treating

01:18:21.960 people family right that's a doctrine in in you know in the in the quran and islam that is

01:18:30.180 not violent but very aggressive towards apostasy now if someone walked away from christianity we

01:18:37.680 would pray for them we would be sorrowful we wouldn't want to kill them um right so her and

01:18:44.860 And then I wouldn't be disgusted by it, because I think what's what's key is that you mentioned, like, he didn't want to touch her.

01:18:52.360 Yeah.

01:18:52.760 Like she's unclean.

01:18:53.760 He's disgusted.

01:18:54.380 Yeah.

01:18:54.780 Because if you just said, you know, he didn't want to interact with her.

01:18:57.920 Then again, I would play the devil's advocate and push back and say that we do, Hastie, have a verse in the New Testament that for those who profess, they claim to be a brother.

01:19:07.560 Right.

01:19:07.940 But they've denied the truth.

01:19:09.160 They're a posse.

01:19:09.660 They've walked away.

01:19:10.560 Do not even share a meal.

01:19:12.840 And so there is, you know.

01:19:14.080 And so there is Christian doctrine.

01:19:15.580 So that's my point.

01:19:16.200 I want to be as fair to the subject as possible and say that, yes, we do have Old Testament

01:19:19.940 texts where God tells Israel to commit genocide, you know, and we do have even New Testament

01:19:24.280 texts that take sin very seriously with excommunication.

01:19:27.780 And actually, and actually one of the ways that we teach someone repentance, we're used

01:19:32.940 as an agent at the end of the day, repentance is a gift that comes from God sovereignly.

01:19:36.780 He either grants it or he doesn't.

01:19:38.140 But one of the ways that God uses his people, the church as an, as an agent in granting

01:19:43.120 repentance is by the church obeying new testament commands and withdrawing intentionally withdrawing

01:19:49.540 relationship and community from the impenitent sinner in such a way that they are taught to be

01:19:55.800 ashamed is is what paul says elsewhere and so um so there are that there is that kind of language

01:20:01.660 but nowhere is there this sense of um and we withdraw that relationship because we're disgusted

01:20:06.920 by you no no no it's always love for you it's just tough love just like the father who spanks

01:20:12.460 his child it's not like hey i've been loving you but at this point i've got to stop loving you now

01:20:17.480 i have to spank you no we never stop loving you if we get to that point it we're still in well

01:20:22.980 underneath the banner of love it's just another form of love it's tough love and it's probably 0.95

01:20:28.440 harder for you as a christian to not show that love to that person it's hard to do that right

01:20:34.980 it breaks your heart but to them it's like you're an animal now you're like you're we don't touch 0.94

01:20:41.420 pigs we don't touch you that's the same kind of equal that's how Allah sees basically unbelievers 0.98

01:20:46.980 right and so that day the next day my mom's brother's wife called her and said well why don't 0.89

01:20:54.840 we go to these mullahs or whatever they're called to kind of have a discussion to see if they can

01:20:59.780 you know convince you knowing full well that if my mom went to the government basically those

01:21:07.200 mullahs and if that mullah was a crazy one that would that was a fanatic one that would be super 0.51

01:21:13.520 offended that she had to processize she could be in prison so like it is so yes they're our family

01:21:21.280 they're peace loving and for the most part but they would go to the length of um having you be

01:21:29.120 imprisoned for apostatizing so that to me is a little bit like no maybe not everybody would do

01:21:35.700 that still because there's a lot of nominal muslims right but do you know what i mean so 0.99

01:21:42.140 there's those really aggressive ways it's the same thing that i said earlier bug versus feature

01:21:47.880 another way of saying it is um there are many peaceful muslims because there are many nominal

01:21:53.400 muslims exactly right and and that's a big that's a that's a profound statement whereas 0.63

01:21:58.180 you and i if we if we turned you know and and pointed you know our sights on christianity would 0.98

01:22:04.300 say there are few violent christians because there are some crazy christians right there you know 0.98

01:22:10.940 like there are some violent christians because there are some unfaithful christians whereas 0.99

01:22:15.680 whereas we would say there are a fair amount of violent muslims because there are a fair amount 1.00

01:22:22.520 of committed because that's what we would say i think it's yeah exactly where you find a violent 0.99

01:22:28.220 christian you find someone who's gotten off the rails where you find a violent muslim you find 0.75

01:22:33.880 someone who is true to really true to the text. Yeah. True to the text. Exactly. Um, all right. 1.00

01:22:41.060 Any, any final thoughts we've got to go ahead and wrap up. Anything else you want to, you'd like to

01:22:44.520 say? No, that's good. Okay. So how can our listeners, um, how can they be praying for you

01:22:51.280 and how can they follow you and keep up with your online ministry? Um, I'm basically just on

01:22:56.440 Instagram right now. Um, biblical and reformed. That's it. Cool. Okay. Any, anything that, uh,

01:23:03.300 our listeners can be praying for um yeah for just for the canadian government to really be

01:23:12.100 aligned with the truth because it's getting really um really harsh here now unfortunately

01:23:20.520 you know with james coates and everything and yeah yeah courage for christians and in the

01:23:26.040 meantime yeah james coates is uh one of our guests um as well with the show that we'll be

01:23:32.060 we'll be doing soon so yeah that canada is canada is getting crazy especially for christians yeah

01:23:37.900 we'll be praying for um the civil magistrates and canada and also praying for uh perseverance

01:23:43.420 and courage for the christians in the midst of that so thanks uh so much hasty for coming on

01:23:48.100 the show i really appreciate it me too thank you for having me thanks for watching this video we

01:23:53.380 hope you enjoyed it if you did enjoy it we hope that you'll take a moment and subscribe to our

01:23:57.700 YouTube channel so you can watch more content like this. Also take a moment and give this video a

01:24:02.460 like so that it can reach more people and take a moment and click on the bell so that you'll

01:24:06.800 be notified whenever we come out with new content. Thanks so much. God bless.

The NXR Podcast - June 30, 2021

THEOLOGY APPLIED - The Key Differences Between Christianity & Islam

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