In 50 years from now, if America still exists, if God is so merciful, there are three different characteristics that will cause churches to survive the coming persecution to our nation. Many churches have closed their doors, many more sadly will close their doors in the coming decades. What are those three characteristics? Tune into this episode to find out.
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00:05:23.100tell our listeners just a little bit about yourself just in case they don't know who you are
00:05:27.340yeah absolutely i got a youtube channel uh i got a podcast on the fight laugh feast network you can
00:05:33.200find me if just by typing in my name on both ad robles r-o-b-l-e-s i'm also pretty active on
00:05:39.840twitter if you don't like fighting you know you probably won't want to follow me on twitter but
00:05:43.520if you like seeing uplifting stuff uh i'm also on gab i'll post pictures of my you know kids playing
00:05:48.740little league or my my chickens or uh fishing pictures so if you like that kind of stuff you
00:05:53.820know just like normal regular life i'm on gab as well cool yeah i think you posted something today
00:05:59.920the day that we're recording this that said like twitter you know i go to twitter to fight i go to
00:06:04.140gab to relax twitter's really good for fighting it is i mean it really is the way the algorithm
00:06:09.760works you know it's it's very difficult to sort of uh block out anything like all the things you
00:06:16.160don't want to see on twitter on gab it's really easy so like a lot of people say gab you know
00:06:19.940it's full of haters and there's definitely a lot of aggression on gab no question but it's very
00:06:25.000easy to curate it so what i've done at gab is just anyone who's got any kind of like hardcore
00:06:29.840negativity i just i just block them i just mute them whatever and i've curated this list if you
00:06:35.000look at my gab if you are on my side of it it's just like pictures of people's farms and fishing
00:06:40.680pictures and stuff like that it just it's a very very pleasant place nice cool well so what i was
00:06:46.820thinking for this episode is um kind of a prediction episode what will the church look like in the
00:06:52.740future and more particularly like what type of church what kind of churches are going to make it
00:06:58.200you know the in uh what is it in g n gmi not gonna make it i'm like sitting i like that one
00:07:07.340Yeah, not going to make it. And so like what kind of church, you know, kind of maybe a white pill spin on it. What kind of church is going to make it? And I've thought of three things that I think that we could just kind of go back and forth and discuss the type of church that I think, you know, is going to make it.
00:07:25.560Like I'd, I'd love to say, you know, like I'd love to do on this episode say, well, there's
00:07:29.100seven things like being confessionally reformed and being covenantal in your theonomy and
00:07:34.540presuppositional and patriarchal and, you know, and Kuyperian and, and that would be
00:14:20.820Whereas like you think of Southern slavery, you know, in America and like part of the
00:14:25.380reason why like the black church would have still even historically to this day, you know,0.63
00:14:29.700the overturned tones of this continuing, like traditionally really long services, you know,
00:14:34.920like five hour long church services where it's just singing and singing and singing
00:14:38.620and singing and preaching and preaching and preaching and preaching without getting into
00:14:42.280any of the theology, like part of that does come over from like, all right, if, if life is hard,
00:14:47.060six days a week, then on the Lord's day, it's like, this is a moment of reprieve and we don't
00:14:52.600want it to end, but they spent it together. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't like, Hey,
00:14:56.400we just, you would think like, you know, I'm, I'm physically exhausted. I'm just going to stay
00:15:00.900home and sleep all day. But that wasn't the mindset at all. It was like, I don't want to
00:15:04.080waste a minute of daylight. I'm going to get with the saints, get with my brothers, get with my,
00:15:08.780my sisters and we're going to spend, we're going to have some good old timey church and it's going
00:15:13.440to be all day long. And so, so I'm, I'm with you. Yeah. And I don't think it's a matter, like you
00:15:19.600said, it's not really a matter of eschatology. Cause I think of a lot of the people I'm thinking
00:15:22.740of, you know, and my grandparents, for example, are one of them, you know, I used to go to their
00:15:26.040house in the Bronx, you know, and, and compared to people in the Bronx, they were pretty well off
00:15:30.960compared to like some people in the Bronx, but you know, like their eschatology, like they,
00:15:36.720they didn't share what i what you and i believe about eschatology they thought they thought that
00:15:41.480the world was going to hell in a handbasket you know but they didn't really act that way you know
00:15:45.500what i mean they they had a family they they their family their kids had a lot of kids and they they
00:15:50.860were playing for the future they were setting money aside they were doing this they were doing
00:15:54.080that they were they were had an expectation of you know we you know we we need we've got to make
00:16:00.160moves here you know what i mean even though their theology was not that way it was sort of like you
00:16:05.180know christ is coming tomorrow probably and i think i've heard my grandmother even say that
00:16:08.320many times um it really wasn't like that it's just they were making moves in their own way
00:16:15.740and they felt like you know like christ was on their side and they could do what they needed
00:16:21.800to do and they had confidence in the future they had faith in the future um so yeah it's it's a
00:16:28.400very interesting dynamic because you're right it really doesn't have a lot to do with their
00:16:33.420formal eschatology. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah. That's interesting. I think you're right
00:16:38.840about that. Going into the future, the next 50 years, people are going to be looking for that
00:16:42.680a bit more because there's a lot of Blackfield people out there, Joel. I don't know if you've
00:16:45.280noticed. There are. There are. A lot of them are Christians, sadly, or at least professing
00:16:49.620Christians. But yeah, so I think post-millennial eschatology is on the up and up. I think there's0.95
00:16:54.920a resurgence. So I think we are going to find more post-millennial churches. And I'm excited
00:16:58.640about that because I think it's biblically true, not just because it's fun, not just because I
00:17:02.260think it appeals to young men, which I do think it appeals to young men. There are all the pragmatic
00:17:06.660reasons and all, you know, all, but ultimately I think that it's true to the scripture. I think
00:17:11.060it's what the scripture teaches. And so I want to see that become a more dominant, you know,
00:17:15.620eschatology. And I think that's going to happen. But my point is, I think if I'm getting down to
00:17:20.120the common, you know, the lowest common denominator, I think it's simply going to be
00:17:25.180people who believe it's going to be not so much anti-premillennialism. I think it's going to be
00:17:33.600anti-pietism. It's going to be anti-retreatism. And it's going to be people who are engaging the
00:17:41.220world. They think that the church actually has potential to change the world, even if they think
00:17:48.240that's only going to be temporary. Even if they think Jesus is going to come back in 20 years,
00:17:53.440but um uh but we can uh we could make the next five years better and five years uh a five-year
00:18:03.400improvement matters it matters for me for my wife for my children for my grandchildren and
00:18:08.920it's worth fighting for so i think that's like that's one of the things that honestly you can
00:18:13.080kind of get a you know i'm thinking 50 years you know but you can get a really good five-year gauge
00:18:17.940of what the church is going to be like by just looking at um kind of like the the pink pill
00:18:24.660you know conservative world outside of the church because because that's really you know that's i
00:18:30.680mean the church is just it's it's embarrassing how behind like right now i think the church is
00:18:35.580more woke than the world and it's because the church is always like five to seven years behind
00:18:40.040so so the like there are guys like like establishment regime big eva guys who are
00:18:46.500literally like they're more woke than the average person that you meet at the grocery store and it's
00:18:50.500and it's not because that person at the grocery store wasn't that woke they just they were that
00:18:55.620woke in 2020 and they're just up with the times you know but jd greer still hasn't got the memo
00:19:01.380you know what i mean like it's it's isn't that embarrassing like yes but it's true it's it's
00:19:10.420like so it's so true so my point is like i think like the church is going to come out of wokeness
00:19:14.680and this is so sad to say, like, but why am I confident the church is going to come out of
00:19:19.240wokeness? Well, first, because I think Jesus is Lord and he's the head of the church and he's not
00:19:23.740going to abandon us. But secondly, I think the church is going to come out of wokeness in
00:19:27.540approximately five years because the culture as a whole is coming out of wokeness and the church
00:19:32.620usually follows the culture five years behind. Crazy stuff, man. Crazy stuff. All right. So
00:19:39.740anyways um okay so the second one that i was thinking is law and gospel so the first one is
00:19:44.220engaging the world not being pietistic and being hopeful you could still think overall the
00:19:49.960trajectory is down in terms of your eschatology but thinking that we could make a difference now
00:19:54.820and that difference matters um so even if it's only going to be better for 10 years or 20 or 50
00:19:59.140so i think that's number one number two i think is churches that don't just preach the gospel but
00:20:04.220also preach uh the law so why don't you talk to us a little bit because you've had experience with
00:20:09.200this. You were at Tim Keller's church for a while, you know, may he rest in peace. I think Tim Keller
00:20:13.380for the record, I think he would agree with this. I think he's with the Lord right now. I think that
00:20:17.020he was regenerate. I think that, uh, like first Corinthians chapter three verses eight through
00:20:21.34011, you know, like I think not everything Keller did, but a good bit was wood, hay and stubble,
00:20:26.720especially towards the end of his ministry was burned up. He suffered much loss, but he himself
00:20:30.880is saved. Um, you know, and so I think Tim Keller is with the Lord. Um, but I think Tim Keller
00:20:36.420probably had some regrets. Right now, I think he's in eternal bliss, but I think when he first
00:20:40.640saw the Lord, there was some apologies that were taking place for some of his latter ministry.
00:20:46.640But all that being said, so I'm not trying to pick on him because I know he just recently died.
00:20:50.860But my point is, Tim Keller is kind of the pinnacle, the epitome of what I would call
00:20:56.340not gospel centrality, but gospel myopticism, gospel onlyism. Can you talk about problems with
00:21:02.620that preaching the law here's the thing i think that especially men there there's a need for like
00:21:11.120a like a practicality to the faith as well so so it so listen you know a simple faith you know
00:21:18.360that's a beautiful thing you know and you trust in the lord for your salvation that's a beautiful
00:21:23.440thing you know and it's part of the commission you know we're baptizing uh the nations in the
00:21:28.560name of the father the son and the holy spirit so that's like obviously we we've got to focus on
00:21:32.560on converting people uh to the faith that's that's for sure um but i think men especially like
00:21:38.300there's a i think people get men get frustrated when it's like you know you ask questions because
00:21:45.400i remember i used to ask this question so like okay now what what do i do you know what i mean
00:21:49.960like and and basically the answer that i would get is like well you just come to church on sunday
00:21:55.020and you sing these songs and you know and you know maybe we'll talk about your struggles with
00:22:00.220sin and that's about it but there's that's not about it you know what i mean because the commission
00:22:05.780itself a whole half of it is about teaching them to observe everything that i command and so um i
00:22:12.740think that that what you're what you're kind of referring to here is that the churches that'll
00:22:16.360survive are actually going to be teaching are going to be doing the second part of that commission now
00:22:21.640the question that i have is are they doing it for good or for ill like are they teaching the right
00:22:27.040way or the wrong way right are they are they teaching you but but i guess your your point is
00:22:31.280to survive one way or the other whether it's a solid church or not a solid church they're going
00:22:36.460to have to be doing that you know they're going to have to it's not going to be enough to have
00:22:40.460the sentimentality uh to survive in the next 50 years right i think that's kind of what you're
00:22:45.980driving at right yep and i and i think part of that obviously i prefer they teach correctly
00:22:49.740right but i think part of that is what you just said in terms of like men needing to have you
00:22:55.180know be practically told what to do i think a lot of that uh was we were able to assume in like you
00:23:00.840know a neutral world where there wasn't quite as much opposition sure and with a better economy
00:23:05.840where it was just it was easier to provide for a family easier to get a job more people you know
00:23:11.260just it was just what you did you got married you know typically in your 20s you had a few kids you
00:23:16.820bought a home but now like those things aren't givens anymore like now it's like really hard to0.80
00:23:21.880find a woman um that you trust enough not to ruin your life that's why like you have the whole red
00:23:27.740pill manosphere you know on the secular side of things that is totally not christian and like
00:23:32.560their advice they're they're giving law they're giving practical you know uh steps for men and
00:23:37.740and those steps are get a vasectomy in your 20s don't ever get married and and i get it i mean
00:23:43.680it's it's totally it's not red pill it's black pill like they're you know they're totally wrong
00:23:47.840But I get the sentiment because what they're thinking is, um, if you marry a woman, you've just given her a loaded gun. Um, you, you've just like, you have just, uh, given someone the, the authority and the power and the ability to completely, uh, destroy your life.
00:24:04.900And statistically speaking, it's more likely that she'll do it than that she won't right now.
00:24:10.600You know, so I think my point is in the world that we now live in, because Christendom has been, you know, leaving the port and going out to sea because of our rebellion and our apostasy, because of those things and because God will not be mocked and a man reaps what he sows and we're living in a worse world because of it, there are a lot more men who need direction than they used to.
00:24:31.640and they don't just need like man up, they need to be told how to be a man. What, you know,
00:24:36.260practically, what does that mean Monday through Saturday? How do I get married? How, how do I
00:24:40.920discern whether or not this, this woman's going to marry me and then take half of my stuff, you1.00
00:24:46.160know, and, and, you know, so anyway, so I just think, yeah, I think that trust Jesus, he died
00:24:52.800for your sin will, will not be enough churches that only, you know, Keller always preached the
00:24:58.720first use of the law. So here's the law of God and here's how it functions as a mirror that
00:25:03.680reflects to you, your fallenness, your, your shortcomings, your sin. And then here's the
00:25:09.220gospel. Here's Jesus and how he did all those things that the very things that you just failed
00:25:13.560to do. Um, and all that was true, you know, and then he's like, here's Jesus. And this is how
00:25:17.740Jesus fulfilled those things perfectly on your behalf. So trust in Jesus. That's a, uh, almost
00:25:22.780a great sermon. I wouldn't say that's wrong at all. I would just say it's incomplete. Then what
00:25:27.280what I think we're going to see over the next 50 years is churches that then add to that
00:25:31.400the third use of the law that says, so here's the law. This is how you failed. This is why you need
00:25:36.240Jesus. Here's Jesus. This is how you fulfill these things in your place, not just substitutionary
00:25:41.080death, but substitutionary life. Now let's go back to the law in its third use as a lamp unto our
00:25:46.720feet, a light unto our path, something we delight in that shows us the way not to the way to
00:25:51.780salvation, but the way from salvation to further sanctification that shows us not just that we're
00:25:58.560sinners and we need Jesus, but now that we have Jesus and we're responding in gratitude for the
00:26:03.060free gospel of grace, it shows us how to live. I think that's going to become, I think that
00:26:09.420especially young men will not tolerate a Tim Keller type church 10 years from now, 20 years
00:26:16.380Yeah. Yeah. And the thing and the thing about this is that, you know, up until now, like guys like Tim Keller have been very good at it kind of like not disguising what they're saying, but making it sound good, because like if you told the person like, you know, yeah, you know, I'm never going to I'm never really going to tell you practically what to do.
00:26:38.260like that's not important people would see right through that right so they'll say things like
00:26:42.500well you never actually move on from the gospel you always need the gospel you need to preach the
00:26:47.040gospel to yourself every single day and um you need to every single passage it's just really
00:26:51.820about the gospel and you need to think about that and it's like well that sounds like like to some
00:26:55.940people especially to new believers that sounds okay that sounds pretty good i guess that makes
00:27:00.600a lot of sense you know because i'm always going to be you know fighting against my sin and i still
00:27:04.580do struggle with my sin so i guess i do need to just focus on the gospel every single day
00:27:09.240and the thing is though that like i think you're right like when when when when times are somewhat
00:27:15.920normal you know somewhat you know you can kind of assume a certain set of morality i mean i remember
00:27:21.060when i was growing up you know which was not that long ago i'm not that old yet joel you know but0.87
00:27:25.620but when i was growing up it's like everyone kind of knew that like homosexuality was a deviant
00:27:30.860lifestyle even if they didn't think it was a sin they didn't think it was you know anything really
00:27:35.520wrong with it it was something that you want did not want to do you didn't want to do that it was
00:27:39.760deviant you know even even degenerates didn't want to degenerate that much you know what i mean so
00:27:44.980in the 1960s we knew that even a dude a man having long hair was degenerate like that's why a guy
00:27:50.920would grow out his hair exactly 100 so i guess so i guess my point is like when everyone's kind of
00:27:59.560working with the same assumptions you don't like you can kind of get away with some of that stuff
00:28:04.760but you're right like these these days you know especially men are struggling with like lots of
00:28:10.460basic basic stuff and they're turning to youtube to basically guide them and and that's that's a
00:28:17.900day youtube is is not this is i like youtube don't get me wrong i there's a lot of cool stuff on
00:28:23.000youtube but there's a lot of garbage on youtube garbage and i don't know man have you noticed
00:40:13.720But a lot of the woke guys weren't, the worst of them were doing that, but a lot of them weren't doing that. They were careful enough to not conflate works with gospel. And so then we kept insisting, well, you are inflating works with gospel. You are being a legalist. When they actually weren't. The line of attack we should have used is, we should have said, the works that you're adding, you're not conflating with the gospel. You have a distinction between gospel and works.
00:40:37.760the problem is that the works although distinct from the gospel are the works of the devil
00:40:41.820they're demonic works evil works they're not good works this you know what i mean that should have
00:40:47.180been that should have been our answer and it took you're dead on it took us two extra i in my
00:40:52.640assessment two extra years to like john harris is on that train now like he he's like he wasn't
00:40:59.000always there though he wasn't always there you know he wasn't always there and so it you know
00:41:02.880and john and we could say that about john he'll watch this and he'll laugh because he's he's a
00:41:06.440good friend but like it took him it took me a little you know i wasn't quite as much as john
00:41:10.620but um but anyways it's you know it took us a little bit to realize oh wait a second the the
00:41:16.040biggest problem with this is not a perversion of the gospel a perversion of the gospel is a huge
00:41:21.260problem but a lot of guys weren't a lot of them were doing that you're right and and in fairness
00:41:24.840and in fairness to john a lot of these guys the worst of them were definitely doing that 100%
00:41:31.160guys were doing that that's true yeah so so yeah there were some dudes out there doing that but
00:41:36.300but a lot, but not everyone. And the ones that weren't doing it were still wrong.
00:41:39.840Yeah. The guys who were saying the whole gospel that they were doing it, they were,
00:41:44.020when you start saying the whole gospel and the whole gospel means reparations and, and, you know,
00:41:50.220and, uh, universal income and whatever. Um, and you're saying this is the gospel, um, or that you
00:41:57.760can't be saved apart from, then that is the Galatian heresy adding works to the gospel of
00:42:02.120grace. And the worst guys were doing that. And John nailed them on it. And he was, he was right.
00:42:07.240Absolutely. But, but the minions, they're followers, right? So you've got a few elite
00:42:11.720guys who are doing that. Um, but, but most of the guys are the followers. And, and I would say the
00:42:17.500majority of guys actually weren't doing that. Um, they, they actually were, uh, had a clear
00:42:23.320distinction between law and gospel. The problem is that their law wasn't God's law. And it took
00:42:28.480us a while, I think, to figure that out. So anyways, all that being said, I think moving
00:42:32.040forward, you're absolutely right though, that like God used in his mercy, he used COVID, he used BLM,
00:42:38.160he used the whole woke thing from 2017, 18, 19, and then really, you know, climaxing in 2020.
00:42:44.460I think he used that for, we couldn't beat the wokeness by just saying Galatian heresy,
00:42:50.980Galatian heresy, because that didn't apply to everybody. So then what we had to do to beat it0.54
00:42:54.960is we actually had to, uh, to go back to the law of God. And, and the beauty is that now coming
00:43:00.260off of this, um, you've got a lot more churches like mine, you know, that, that, um, that preach
00:43:06.140law and gospel. So that's good. Absolutely. No, I think, and what's interesting about the two
00:43:11.880things we've brought up so far, you can see sort of like, there's going to be a dichotomy. There's
00:43:16.200going to be churches that are solid that survive, and there's going to be some evil churches that
00:43:20.220survive that are doing these things just the like the bizarro like anti-christ version right
00:43:25.860bizarro superman and they're going to be and they're going to be the regime churches they're
00:43:29.140going to be the churches for you know essentially you know the people that are on capitol hill kind
00:43:34.600of thing you know that that kind of thing um and eventually they'll die out too but right that's
00:43:39.740what's going to happen but they'll they'll be the bad ones that last the longest you're absolutely
00:43:43.000right and we and let's explore that a little bit more but with the third one now uh the third one
00:43:47.640that i was thinking of is third characteristic of churches that i think will last for 50 years
00:43:51.920is uh churches that feel old um churches that have like some kind of traditional historic
00:43:58.780um you know um uh old tried and true trusted credible uh sentiment you know that that i think
00:44:09.000as you know this gets into like technology it gets into ai it gets like as the world continues
00:44:14.360to progress and more and more things become digital. As the world becomes more digital
00:44:19.380and becomes, Michael O'Fallon would love this, you know, digital currency. And, you know,
00:44:25.020as the world becomes more digital, digitized, and there's more things that are doctored and
00:44:31.200tweaked and twisted, I think there's going to be a yearning for what is true. What is true?
00:44:38.120What is true? What is authentic? What is real? What can I trust? And so on the bad side of
00:44:44.040things, the bizarro world, you know, uh, upside down world, but churches that, that mimic God's
00:44:49.060design, but in the opposite sense, but they last because they're still mimicking his design.0.99
00:44:54.240Um, I like, that would be the perfect example of that would be like, um, like an Episcopalian
00:45:00.140church where, you know, you're walking in with like, like a 400 year old Bible, you know,
00:45:05.080being carried. And there's like three altar boys with, you know, lit candles walking behind the
00:45:09.780priest and, and there's thrones up on the stage and stained glass and chandeliers hanging. And
00:45:15.140it's glorious. It's this cathedral. I mean, it's beautiful. It looks legit. And then the guy gives
00:45:20.280a 15 minute homily on why, uh, Paul, you know, when he cast out the demon of the slave girl,
00:45:26.260he was wrong to do that, you know, and, uh, whatever, you know, and, and the dude is,0.52
00:45:31.700you know, and the priest is actually gay and his boyfriend is sitting on the front row.
00:45:35.960and i say that like as some um random you know illustration but i actually actually knew a priest
00:45:42.380like that when i was pastoring when i was pastoring in california we met at an episcopalian church in
00:45:48.060the evening and the priest was gay and uh and his boyfriend would sit on the front row and i remember
00:45:53.180going to one of the services and it was a 15 minute homily where he said the the apostle
00:45:57.380paul was wrong for these reasons um in this particular text so anyways all that being said
00:46:01.960but the the aesthetic looked trustworthy it looked you know and so when you're when you're
00:46:08.440sitting on youtube all day you know and and and watching tiktok and and your work is um is is in
00:46:15.020an office bunker underground where you don't see the light of day you know no sunlight and it's
00:46:20.420everything is on the computer and in ai and virtual reality and all this kind of stuff as in
00:46:26.280it's progressing. And then you can go to the sun gloriously cascading through a stained glass
00:46:32.920window of a church that's 300 years old, the building. And there's these old rituals that
00:46:39.020they've been doing for, you know, for centuries. Even though the actual content of what's being
00:46:45.040preached is antithetical to the Bible, the veneer feels legit. It feels legitimate and
00:46:51.500uh, and, and it'll, that'll be, take longer to, to come down. What do you think?
00:46:57.060Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's interesting. I also think, um, even besides
00:47:02.880just the aesthetic of the actual physical building and stuff like that, um, the, the liturgy like
00:47:08.980actually is going to make a big difference too. Like if you have a solid, you know, you know,
00:47:14.380somewhat ancient liturgy, you know, where you do things like, you know, you sling the Gloria
00:47:21.080a pottery or you do catechisms questions or you know i don't know what what people are doing but
00:47:26.940what i'm saying is like as as the world gets at least it seems to get more chaotic you know at
00:47:33.860least what you see online you know what you see on tv and what they what they push what they push
00:47:38.180is more chaotic anyway um i think that people are going to be attracted to having a sunday uh lord's
00:47:45.240day that is predictable that is beautiful that is uh constant that has the feel of constants you
00:47:53.040know it's like it's just this is what we've been doing for a long time you know people have been
00:47:57.500singing you know the glory pottery for hundreds of years people have been singing you know um
00:48:02.480doxology for however long you know i don't even know when these songs were invented but i'm just
00:48:07.880saying like i think people are gonna be attracted to that as things get more and more chaotic
00:48:12.740Like, especially online, because a lot of the things that are happening online with AI and this whole idea of, like, trying to get people to plug into this metaverse thing.
00:48:22.240I don't know if that's ever going to work, but it's something they're trying.
00:48:25.180You know, all this digitization of everything, it's a way to introduce all kinds of chaos.
00:52:08.600But even if it's simple church in terms of the building,
00:52:11.140you can still have robust, historic, rooted, grounded church
00:52:16.220in terms of just your liturgy and your worship, your order of worship and the way that you preach
00:52:22.500and those kinds of things. And I think that with technological advances and people constantly
00:52:28.040pulling the wool over you, institutions constantly, everybody's lying to you. All the time people are
00:52:32.960lying to you. So to have something that feels rooted and timeless and tried and tested and true
00:52:38.960will go a long way. So I think those are the three things that I thought of.
00:52:43.280Any final thoughts on that or final word?
00:52:46.220I think all of these things, you know, when you when you think about it all together, I think people are going to be looking and they're already doing this, looking for like an authenticity to everything.
00:52:58.760You know what I mean? Like, I know lots of people still go to mega churches. I don't think that that kind of thing is going to survive into the future.
00:53:07.060And one of the big reasons is because it's very difficult to do the community thing or even to to to to to be quite honest.
00:53:15.660Like it's very difficult to to to to to even like really pastor people or even like to even do the basic stuff right in that content.
00:53:26.480I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's very difficult.
00:53:29.020And so and I think that a lot of I think automatically some of the kind of like traditional feel of church goes out the window when you have 10,000 people in your church, you know, and video screens everywhere like a stadium.
00:53:42.920So anyway, all that to say is that I think people are going to, the stuff on, look, internet is part of real life.
00:53:51.340I'm not going to say to do the thing where it's like internet's not real life.
00:53:54.580But with AI content creators and, you know, all kinds of lying content creators, there's like a, there's one common carnivore diet content creator that presents themselves as a man, but it's actually a woman.
00:54:10.080anyway whatever like the point the point is like there's all kinds of lying going on and deceptions
00:54:15.500and things like that people are gonna i think rebel against that to some degree and they're
00:54:21.200going to they're still going to consume online content of course but the voices that are too
00:54:25.620easily manipulated by or copied by ai like you know if i type in ai uh right now chat gpt you
00:54:33.060know give me an article about uh the latest event you know in the style of gospel coalition it will
00:54:38.120be identical to what you'll find from gospel coalition that's going to go the way of the
00:54:41.380dodo nobody's going to want that anymore right they're going to want you know more authentic
00:54:46.680style online content but i think they're also going to want just in real life people real
00:54:52.240life people that they could hang out with that they could grab a beer with if you're presbyterian
00:54:56.360if you're you know if you're baptist maybe grab a grape juice or something like that we have wine
00:55:00.260for the lord's supper because we're biblical and i drink beer and you know this ad we have drank
00:55:04.540beer together i do know this that's why i said it but i'm one of the minorities i i admit that
00:55:09.260anyway but my point is like they they're gonna want to have people that um that you know it's
00:55:17.320they're they're serious about the lord um but there's there's as little pretense as possible
00:55:22.560i think sometimes you know i'm not saying this is true of every megachurch i've never been to
00:55:25.960every megachurch but when i go to megachurches you know you've got the the greeting team and
00:55:30.860you've got this and everything seems very contrived now every church usually has that
00:55:35.240they'll have someone that goes up to new people and and but when it's in a smaller context it just
00:55:39.760does not feel the same you know what i mean it does not feel the same have you've ever visited
00:55:45.020a smaller church where you kind of had the idea that oh this is the guy that they send a new folks
00:55:49.680to talk to them like it just it's different it's different from a megachurch to a smaller church
00:55:55.860anyway i i think all this stuff is all about human connections and like authentic connections
00:56:01.760because what we get online and what they're trying to push on us is all inauthentic i mean even down
00:56:07.380to like the sexuality like they're trying to push transsexuals that's inauthentic obviously to say0.78
00:56:12.840the the best about it right it's inauthentic right yep i think that that's the common denominator0.99
00:56:18.840with all the things you just said you know yeah uh-huh you're absolutely right i think um one
00:56:24.740thing on the megachurches. I was just thinking, you know, megachurches really became a thing
00:56:28.980in the Bible Belt and Southern California would be another hotspot. But megachurches became like
00:56:35.880the church growth movement, Bill Hybels, you know, like large, like, I mean, technically,
00:56:40.280you know, like Charles Spurgeon, you could argue that he had a megachurch that, you know, the London
00:56:43.840metropolitan tabernacle, like, so there have been some big churches. I think the church of Antioch
00:56:50.060was probably pretty big, the church in Jerusalem. So like, I'm not, you know, neither you or I are
00:56:54.280philosophically inherently against mega churches, but in terms of mega churches being, being so
00:56:59.020common, a dime a dozen, that's relatively new, um, a new phenomenon, uh, that you can track back
00:57:05.060to pretty much the eighties and nineties. However, what I was going to say is that, um, one thing
00:57:09.700that's radically changed, uh, is, uh, is the internet. Um, and that, uh, that a lot of reason
00:57:17.240why the mega church appealed to people is because they wanted to be able to, um, to slip in and
00:57:22.860slip out and have an experience without the community. They didn't go to a mega church
00:57:27.560because they wanted a community with 10,000 people. You go to a context of 10,000 people
00:57:31.660because you don't want community because you're just a number that you can, um, you can't go,
00:57:36.680you can't go to a church of 75 people and show it 15 minutes late and not be noticed
00:57:41.100for being late. You know what I mean? Like, like you're, you better be on time. And you also,
00:57:46.380if things are uncomfortable or you don't like it or you're bored or whatever, like you can't,
00:57:50.200You can't slip out without it being kind of.
00:57:52.680Well, I'll tell you, this is, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but this is so, this is, and it's not from, it's not typically, well, maybe it could be from a place of judgment, but I'll tell you right.
00:58:00.980One time recently I was, I have a new church.
00:58:04.540I don't know if I, if I told everyone in the audience this yet, but you know, just a church, a local church just in my town.
00:58:09.920So I was driving an hour and it was a great church, but it was an hour away, you know?
00:58:13.760So anyway, so I, we just started going to this church and my, my family was out of town.
00:58:19.040i even forget where they were doing but i was all alone and so i went to church that day and um i
00:58:25.640just started feeling really ill you know in the middle of the service and so i just i skedaddled
00:58:30.980right and i'll never forget it like i got a text after church was over from my from my buddies like
00:58:37.500dude i saw you leave are you all right and it wasn't from a place of judgment it's like is
00:58:41.740everything okay kind of thing he saw me because there's only like 50 people at that church right
00:58:46.700exactly well and that's what i'm saying so my point is like pairing that with the internet
00:58:50.780when when the mega church movement church growth movement bill heibel's that kind of thing
00:58:55.040saddleback you know like when that really was becoming a thing um and praise god saddleback
00:58:59.800you know was just voted out of the sbc and so that you know that's hopeful there's a lot such0.58
00:59:03.640a white pill man that's great news but it's great news let's let's take it and celebrate the lord0.93
00:59:07.760um but with that um you know when when that was becoming a thing the mega church church growth
00:59:13.320movement thing was really lifting off um you you did not like yeah sure like maybe you you the
00:59:19.260internet was a little bit after that coming on the scene but it wasn't like it is now
00:59:23.800it was not um podcasting was not a thing youtube was not a thing um and and all those things are
00:59:31.020getting better they're all youtube's getting better you know streaming services are getting
00:59:34.800better twitter you can do twitter spaces now and and all these and so my point is if that's all
00:59:40.040somebody wants is just an experience. And typically the person who goes to a megachurch
00:59:45.540wants the invisible experience, the unnoticed, slipping in unnoticed experience. My point is
00:59:52.780that the type of person who goes to a megachurch, I'm not saying they're going to leave a megachurch
00:59:58.340and find a small church. I'm saying they're just not going to go to church at all. I think that
01:00:02.180over the next few years, that person, they're just going to listen to YouTube, right? They're
01:00:08.000just going to watch youtube they're going to listen to podcasts they're going to you know
01:00:10.640uh be following really there's no difference there's no difference that's my point from
01:00:14.960their perspective exactly exactly and so my point is that i think now like the internet and all these
01:00:20.320spaces these little virtual communities pseudo communities online have become so uh dialed in
01:00:28.300and and and have improved so much in terms of content experience uh being able in the chats
01:00:34.780and stuff like that, to engage with people and talk as you're listening and all that, like,
01:00:39.080why get out of bed, you know? And so I think that the only, you know, the megachurch is going to,
01:00:45.160I think it's going to become extinct. I really do. I think that the only thing that's going to
01:00:50.900endure is when I'm thinking I got to get out of bed. Well, for me, I won't use me as an example,
01:00:56.800because for me, it's I need to worship the Lord. I need to lead my wife and children. I also need
01:01:00.860a paycheck it's my job you know so they're a little different for you my situation is a little
01:01:05.100but the person the average person who's a member at covenant bible church the church that i pastor
01:01:09.180in central texas when they show up um they're they're showing up because they're thinking um
01:01:15.000it's the lord's day um and uh and i need to take the supper i need to eat the bread i need to drink
01:01:22.500the wine i need to sing and address one another not just god that i can do privately while
01:01:29.220listening to a worship CD or CDs aren't even a thing anymore, worship, whatever. Um, you know,
01:01:34.820but like a song on, on Alexa, you know, whatever at home. Um, but no, I, I'm commanded to address
01:01:40.320one another, uh, the saints with Psalms, hymns, and spiritual. So I need to sing to people.
01:01:44.920I need to eat bread, drink wine, um, renew. It's a covenantal renewal ceremony. I need to renew
01:01:52.000the covenant. I've broken the covenant this last week, renew the covenant with the Lord.
01:01:55.120uh remember my baptism um i and i need uh my kids and my wife to be washed in the word to be
01:02:02.220physically present there um i you know those those and i need to uh check up on these people
01:02:08.060that i love and that i know and shake that i need to touch them and shake their hand and ask them
01:02:13.000how are you doing and go to lunch with them and blah blah blah and uh i think like that's
01:02:18.120that will never get replaced the metaverse cannot replace there's no substitute for that that will
01:02:23.780never go anywhere. That's Jesus' model. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it. So that's going
01:02:28.740nowhere. But you look at the average megachurch, seeker-sensitive kind of church experience,
01:02:34.340and I'm looking at that, and then I'm looking at Twitter spaces, and I'm looking at Jordan
01:02:38.380Peterson lectures with the Daily Wire, and I'm thinking megachurch, it has a short expiration
01:02:46.540date. That thing ain't going to last much longer. Yeah, this has been interesting, though. Honestly,
01:02:51.560haven't really considered uh too much about what uh what kinds of churches will actually make it
01:02:57.900um you know they're gonna make it you know then this is interesting i think i think there's some
01:03:02.080some good stuff here cool well thanks so much for coming on the show ad and uh let our listeners
01:03:06.420know how they can follow you yeah like i said uh youtube uh fight laugh feast you could just type
01:03:12.180in my name ad roblez and uh i'm on twitter at ad roblez media um and also gab same same handle
01:03:19.820there cool all right hey the church that you found did you find a presbyterian church no
01:03:25.900again it's baptist again yeah that's hilarious there was a presby there's a presbyterian church
01:03:31.960pretty close that we were going to go to but they uh they went super crazy covid nazi and a little
01:03:37.660bit woke so not gonna not gonna fly yeah we've got plenty of presbyterians in our church because
01:03:42.960some of them went woke but but a couple of them didn't go woke they um but they they so overreacted
01:03:49.620to COVID. Yeah, that's a big thing in Presbyterian circles, the COVID overreaction. Yeah, this got
01:03:55.820so bad that they weren't even singing. They didn't even sing. They said, well, you just got to hum
01:04:00.040to yourself because you don't want to get the aspirate. That's exactly what this church in
01:04:05.040town, they're OPC, they're not woke, but yeah, same thing. They bifurcated, they went to two
01:04:11.680services intentionally, not because they had so many people, but they had a mask required service
01:04:17.060and then a mask optional service, but, um, but then, you know, the, the mask service, there was
01:04:22.220no singing allowed in that service. And, and so, you know, and so people just saw that, you know,
01:04:27.480and, and it's, you know, and I'm talking like it's 2021 now we're getting closer to 2022 and that's
01:04:34.540still going on. And so, uh, people are like, all right, well, yeah, Joel's not going to baptize
01:04:38.820our infants. And so we've got to figure that out. You know, we'll, we'll get them baptized in the
01:04:43.360middle of the night by some presbyterian minister but we're going to go to a church that we're going
01:04:47.160to go to a church that has some some faith and and some spine yeah so yeah 100 yeah but it's but
01:04:52.980it's a it's a solid little church and i'm pretty excited to have a uh a five minute drive and i
01:04:58.320can actually hang out with people in fact we did last sunday we hung out with people after church
01:05:01.900because we didn't have an hour drive back home you know yeah that's awesome how long did you go
01:05:07.040to the other church the one that was an hour away how long were you there yeah for like four or five
01:05:11.400years oh i i've been telling them that i'm leaving to to go closer to home for like three years but
01:05:18.500they were they were probably still really sad when you finally pulled the trigger yes they definitely
01:05:23.040were um and they didn't believe me because i just been saying it for three years you know
01:05:27.580right um but finally we did it and i had a chance to preach there one last time and i'm sure we'll
01:05:32.560be back up for like you know picnics or things like that because they're a solid group of people
01:05:36.820it was it was a really kind of a bittersweet thing for us to be honest but you know had to happen
01:05:42.320well enjoy this church for you know six months or so until you move down here and uh join
01:05:46.500well god bless man all right later take care