In Part 3 of our mini-series on Eastern Orthodoxy, we focus on three primary reasons why certain Reformed Protestants are switching teams to EO, and why they do so at the rapid rate they do.
00:08:51.980Yeah, I think you were really onto it with this notion of stability.
00:08:56.700I think people, I think we're all sort of sensing the decay of Western civilization.
00:09:03.440You know, Europe is a few years ahead of us in some ways.
00:09:08.060And so I think that question of what survived longer than my church that put up its, you know, hung its shingle about 50 years ago.
00:09:20.220You know, I want to know something that's older than America.
00:09:24.480What's something like America is going to fall.
00:09:26.300America's going to collapse. America isn't the gospel anymore. And so I think that notion of stability, but in relation to this kind of like rapid decay of culture, the rapid decay of our civilization, like you mentioned, like politics and like the whole mess of it, it seems terrible.
00:09:47.300Um, I also think, um, I think the aesthetics are impressive and we're a very impressionistic
00:10:44.980So we build beautiful buildings or we try to make things beautiful.
00:10:48.860And I think there's a place for aesthetics.1.00
00:10:52.080Protestants need to be better at that.0.95
00:10:55.060Angels in the Architecture is a good book.
00:10:57.740There is something to be said for high vaulted ceilings, speaking to the transcendence of God, these kinds of – and building things to last.
00:11:04.160I think part of the reason why Protestants haven't done that recently is – well, in the case of Rome, it takes money and it always helps when you've got indulgence money.
00:11:12.540you know, that, that's, that's multiplied over 500 years. That's like, that's some good, that's,
00:11:16.740that's some good cash. So they're always going to have more money when you, when you, you know,
00:11:21.340told people they were going, you know, their loved ones were going to stay in purgatory unless they,
00:11:25.040you know, a coin in the coffer clinks, you know, soul and purgatory spring. So that's a, when you
00:11:29.780got 500 year old money, that's been working for you with interest, you know, where you scared
00:11:33.980people, scared the hell out of them, then, you know, Rome is going to just have more cash to
00:11:37.520build those nicer buildings than protestants but also aside from corruption and and stealing money
00:11:43.180from the poor um i also think that protestants have embraced in large part western protestants
00:11:49.300have embraced dispensational premillennialism so why build a glorious transcendent you know
00:11:54.800beautiful aesthetic building uh if jesus is coming back next thursday i think that's part of it too
00:12:00.400So I'd rather find us building on our hands. Right. Yeah. So I think that that is a good thing. I think it could even be dovetailed into the notion of theonomy. And I know that you affirm a postmillennial position. I think that that is a part of that. I think that that has a really good place there. It fits really well.
00:12:21.260But I would even say that that it should fit in an amillennial position.
00:12:24.780We know that that that's consistent with, you know, the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox with their more amillennial position.
00:12:31.080But I would say even a premillennial position should still try to build things to last because we don't know when Jesus is coming.
00:12:37.640And he may come tomorrow, but I think he should find us building.
00:12:41.980He should find us laboring for the kingdom, you know, and those are those aren't bad things.
00:12:47.240But, yeah, I think that's one of the big reasons why people leave, because I think when we don't invest in where we're at, it doesn't look like we're invested where we're at.
00:12:58.180It looks like, well, we could just pick up shop and leave tomorrow and, you know, and none of it really mattered.
00:13:04.420But I think the things that we do and the things that we build now matter, just like we write thousand page systematic theology textbooks or four volume systematic theology textbooks.
00:13:14.340I think architects could do the equivalent with building, you know, why not? Let's I mean, they take years and years of study and research to write these brilliant texts like Herman Bovenk, you know, or Richard Muller doing his study of Protestant scholasticism or or William Shedd or whoever it is that we have that we go back and study.
00:13:37.020I think that just as we do intellectual work in that area, I think we could do great, beautiful architecture that competes with the ugly architecture of our, you know, you know, contemporary postmodern America.
00:13:49.500Amen. Well said. Yeah. And that's the all of Christ, all of life.
00:13:53.540I think part of the reason we don't do that is because of the secular, sacred divide and the Protestants.0.75
00:13:58.860I think Protestants, well, all of us, you know, but, but Protestants, I think, you know, part of0.58
00:14:04.700it is just, um, this is, you know, this isn't eternal. This isn't going to last. What's going
00:14:10.380to last is the word of, you know, the word of God endures forever. And so, you know, so it's worth
00:14:14.260the theology book, um, that's expounding upon the word of God in the text. Um, but the, you know,
00:14:20.500the building, the material, you know, that's, it's just, it's vain. It's vanity. It's, and I,
00:14:26.080And I would disagree. So I think whether it's, you know, building a church cathedral or whether it's starting a business with your family and all these things, all of Christ for all of life, every, you know, we want every good work to, you know, to put our heart and soul in everything that we have.
00:14:44.220do our work as unto the Lord. The last reason that I thought of was, so one stability, one
00:14:50.200aesthetics. So we're saying, you know, people making the switch out of Protestant faith into
00:14:54.100EO or Roman Catholicism because the aesthetic and, and a big one because of the, at least the
00:14:59.860appearance of stability and, you know, being able to say we have a 2000 year old history that's
00:15:04.180never changed. The third one that I could think of is a lot of Protestant pastors are gay. And I0.99
00:15:12.200mean like someone literally gay, they are homosexuals. And then others of them, um, they0.99
00:15:18.780don't, they don't go to bed like a homosexual, but they get out of bed and walk around and talk0.99
00:15:24.440like a homosexual. They are effeminate as, as the scripture would say that, you know, there is the0.99
00:15:29.180sin of homosexuality, but then there's also a feminacy, right? That soft, soft clothing, right?1.00
00:15:34.920For, uh, as John the Baptist, you know, what, what did you, you know, Jesus says, what did you go out
00:15:38.240in the wilderness to see a man in soft clothing, you know, men like that, they, you know, those
00:15:42.280are, those are princes. And I, you know, I would argue with that, that I think Jesus is making fun
00:15:47.120of the civil magistrate that like that, uh, the governing official he's, uh, he's the one who's
00:15:51.860soft, right? Like that, that's a, you want to, you want a man in soft clothing, uh, go to the
00:15:56.100white house, check out Biden. Right. But, uh, but if you want, if you want a man who's wearing
00:16:00.440camel skin and eating locusts, like a man's man, masculine, uh, then, then you go and find a0.89
00:16:05.780preacher. Then you go and find John the Baptist. But when preachers in Protestantism, um, are just0.98
00:16:11.160like politicians and just like any other effeminate man, he's, you can't count on him to keep his
00:16:16.860word. Um, he's going to tickle ears. He's going to tell people what they want to hear. He won't
00:16:21.040take a stand. The government comes knocking and says, shut down your church. And he says, for how
00:16:25.220long Caesar, you know, and they say, wear a mask. He's like, can I wear two Caesar? You know, get a,
00:16:29.900get a jab to love your neighbor. How about four Caesar? Like the second mile. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:16:35.560Right. And they're using that kind of, you know, argumentation, which is not what Jesus was saying.
00:16:39.760Then, then people, and then they see some EO guy. And again, it could just be the aesthetics.
00:16:43.520We've talked about the aesthetics of the cathedral, the building, but also let's talk about the
00:16:47.060aesthetics of, of the priest. You see an EO guy and he's wearing black robes and a big chain cross
00:16:55.100and he's got a beard and you think, oh, finally I could have a pastor that's a male for once in my
00:17:01.100life. Like, sure. Like, like my pastor has, I'm pretty sure he has an XY chromosome, but I can't
00:17:07.240be really sure that my pastor is a male. Right. Exactly. Is he a male? I don't know where, but I0.71
00:17:12.760can, this guy actually is a dude and I'd like to have a pastor who's a dude for once. So I think
00:17:16.960it's the aesthetics. I think it's the sense of stability and unity, but I think it's also the,
00:17:22.020the masculinity guys are leaving reformed Protestant theology because it's like, well,
00:17:27.380I've got Tim Keller on one hand, or I've got Moses the fourth with a beard down to his belly button.
00:17:35.760And he's like, when he's not studying to preach, he's, he's benching 350, you know, like, and that's,
00:17:41.900that's what, you know, there's some EO guys like that. Maybe not all of them, but that's the image
00:17:46.440that guys have. And they're like, yeah, I'll go to, I'll go to his church. Do you think that that's
00:17:50.220maybe a thing, the masculine piece? Yeah. I think, uh, was it Vadi Bakam who mentioned the 11th
00:17:56.160commandment thou shalt be nice right um you know or thou shalt not be not nice kind of thing and
00:18:03.040it's uh i think we confuse um like being patient uh kind gentle these fruits of the spirit with
00:18:13.500effeminacy weakness wishy-washiness um where we nuance to the point where now we don't have to
00:18:22.120have a belief, really, like, we don't want anybody to leave our church. So, you know, we don't preach
00:18:28.320doctrine that divides, you know, we don't preach against sin, or preach repentance, or preach
00:18:35.300obedience, you know, that's just legalism, you know, and so we've redefined the word legalism0.71
00:18:41.300to mean any sort of obedience or strictness, you know, and so we sort of lose that masculine
00:18:48.240quality that wants to stand for something, wants to fight for something, fight for the kingdom.
00:18:53.320I want to fight for the king. One of my favorite scenes, maybe this, you know, it's silly to say,
00:18:59.040but in Return of the King, I believe it is when Theoden is standing there and he holds up his
00:19:06.960sword in front of the whole army and he yells death, you know, and he's death, death. And then
00:19:13.220everybody starts screaming death and they just like run to go fight uh you know to to to defend1.00
00:19:20.020the kingdom you know we're gonna die but we're gonna die gloriously yeah right he had black
00:19:25.680pilled and now finally he's like he's having this realization like no if i'm gonna go down
00:19:31.060right the the horn the horn uh in road road and will sound once more you know one final like yeah
00:19:38.500yeah it's amazing amazing scene yeah and so it's like now we have you know romantic jesus we have
00:19:44.420sweetie jesus we have you know jesus in his flip flops and his you know shorts and his tank top
00:19:50.520flipping burgers on fourth of july jesus um you know and it's like we don't have like king jesus
00:19:57.800lord jesus uh the one who's going to ride in with a sword on a uh on a horseback you know and is
00:20:05.360going to destroy his enemies. And the one that conquers death and the idea of even, well, I think
00:20:13.200we're along the same page here, you know, this idea of a regained masculinity. Our whole entire
00:20:20.060culture has become one of effeminate belonging in a lot of ways. But men bond through competition,
00:20:27.920through pushing against each other. Even the notion of brotherly love, how do brothers love
00:20:32.840each other they push on each other they fight and they argue um you know but we don't have that it's
00:20:38.160it's uh we we get self-esteem by being coddled not by not by uh being victorious you know and
00:20:44.860gaining confidence in our ability and skill and trying our hand at the competition you know uh
00:20:50.740you know amongst people who are our friends and allies but the ones who push us to be great and
00:20:55.080to be to be our best you know um but in a spiritual key so to speak you know so it's just
00:21:01.280It's yeah, it's I think it's a loss of that, that masculine spirit that we need to be able to regain.
00:21:08.180And we see it all over the place, you know, where, you know, now men don't even know if they're men anymore.
00:21:13.000Women don't know if they're women anymore.
00:21:15.160They don't even know what gender is anymore.
00:21:17.820And so it's just a profound confusion.
00:21:19.680So people go to these established forms in an Eastern Orthodox Church where very easily there's the man.
00:21:26.480you know um and i also think uh and i don't i don't know if this is the right term for it
00:21:32.980because i don't believe in clericalism but i do believe that that the pastor should be the pastor
00:21:38.060and he should be identifiable um you know um you know in in the past it would have been you know
00:21:45.260even 75 years ago it would have been pastor webin right it would have been pastor shooping
00:21:49.860pastor smith uh but now it's uh josh or joel or bobby oh there's bobby my pastor you know
00:21:58.980uh god forbid oh there's jenna jenny uh my pastor you know sort of thing but like this idea of
00:22:06.960hierarchy that there is uh authority constituted authority and there's hierarchy in the church
00:22:13.160um we assume that everything has to be egalitarian yes um but uh that's uh another uh factor i think
00:22:22.360that comes in to kind of undermine where we don't really respect authority as a culture
00:22:27.480i think you're absolutely right that was really helpful so the masculinity side but also the
00:22:32.740the hierarchical side which and those two things are not those aren't even really two separate
00:22:37.560points. If we're talking about masculinity and biblical patriarchy, that's right in the vein
00:22:46.220of hierarchy that God made a world, right? That has order. It's not because really egalitarianism
00:22:54.940always eventually brings along with it androgyny and hierarchy always contains in it a celebrated
00:23:04.600distinction between masculinity and femininity. And that, you know, biblical patriarchy is
00:23:10.140inescapable. And that is right in line with hierarchy that we live, number one, God reveals
00:23:15.460himself as a father. We live in the father's world. He's the father of light. Every good and
00:23:21.140perfect gift comes down from him. And he works in the father's world. He's baked rules into the
00:23:27.540very fabric of his creation. So we have no choice but to live in the father's world. According to
00:23:32.560the father's rules. God will not be mocked. What a man sows, he will reap. And God works,
00:23:38.460the father of lights, the heavenly father works predominantly through human fathers in each of
00:23:44.480these various divinely instituted spheres of the home, the church, and the state that we have
00:23:49.280familial fathers as the head of the home. We have ecclesiastical spiritual fathers. Elders are men.
00:23:55.120I would hold also to a male diaconate. So ordained officers in the church are men. And then I0.96
00:23:59.980I believe that even outside of just the home and the church, but outside of it in the state
00:24:03.760as well, that we should have civil fathers, the Christian prince, you know, whatever form
00:24:08.960of government that society has, but still they are predominantly male.
00:24:13.940There may be some, you know, accompanying roles of administrator or something, but governors
00:24:19.520and satraps and, you know, rulers and mayors and police and certainly anyone in any form0.82
00:24:26.520of combat or anyone exercising authority, I believe should be male. And, and when you don't0.91
00:24:31.460have that, you know, like Isaiah, I think it's Isaiah, or maybe Ezekiel that, that speaks about
00:24:35.860the state, the civil magistrate and describes it in, in, with a metaphor, with, with, with,
00:24:43.000with a descriptive language, like a bear, it has like claws and teeth and at, you know,0.84
00:24:51.000and then you see women, um, in positions of civil authority, like Ketanji, you know,0.99
00:24:56.800uh, Brown Jackson, you know, who recently appointed to the Supreme court. And one of1.00
00:25:01.120conservatives, you know, objections was, was she soft on crime and particularly, uh, she's been
00:25:05.580soft on, on pedophiles. Right. And, and you see, you know, you see like with, with, you know,
00:25:10.280with Putin and Russia and stuff, you know, some famous, uh, political journalist, uh, woman,
00:25:15.600you know, came out and wrote a poem, um, about if only I was Putin's mom. Right. Well, yeah,
00:25:20.000that, that is the way that a woman thinks. And, and that's the way that God made a woman to think0.99
00:25:23.940is, oh, you know, this pedophile, um, man, he, he just, he needs a good mom, you know, uh, Putin,0.97
00:25:30.420you know, a warlord needs a good mom. Um, whereas men think, um, that pedophile, oh, he needs a good0.98
00:25:36.080noose. Um, you know, like that's what he needs. He needs to be put to death according to the,
00:25:40.780you know, God's law, um, that, you know, and, and, but you need both. We're not, we're not0.96
00:25:45.480androgynous. We're not supposed to be the same. Women are caring, they're nurturing. I mean,0.98
00:25:49.540from their physical stature, the way that they're built in every regard from their disposition
00:25:53.880emotionally to their physical stature, to their role in society is to nurture, to love, to develop,
00:25:59.680to build. And men, it's to rule, it's to fight, it's conquest. And we've lost, we've completely
00:26:09.840lost that. So whether we're talking about masculinity that, you know, yeah, if some
00:26:13.620church purports to be the same for the last 2000 years without any change, and it's masculine,
00:26:19.540You walk in, you know who the dudes are and, and, and it's also has a hierarchical order
00:26:25.100and organization and respect for those in authority and those in the past in authority,
00:26:31.300church fathers, and these guys, then it's like, as, as much as our society is feministic
00:26:36.760and egalitarian and androgynous people, as our society becomes more progressive in those
00:26:43.900ways, I think it's driving more and more people right into the arms of what appears to be
00:26:48.920the antithesis to those things it's a healthy instinct jumping into a bad it is a healthy
00:26:53.380instinct yeah that's what i that's what i'm saying and i don't think that's the answer i don't think
00:26:57.640eastern orthodoxy or roman catholicism is the answer but it appears it has the masculine veneer
00:27:03.940and it takes about five years or so for all of the internal division to really start to
00:27:09.300be noticeable uh to people entering into these churches uh so for the first five years it's like
00:27:15.180I'm disoriented. Now I'm getting oriented. And now I'm figuring out where I fit in. But now I
00:27:20.480notice that other people have different opinions. And so, you know, you have the famous Callistos
00:27:25.360Ware, who was a famous apologist for the Eastern Orthodox Church. He was heading up a
00:27:32.560female diaconate society. Like he was advocating for that there. And so kind of an interesting
00:27:41.960little tidbit that a lot of people don't know about him um but i would say in terms of that
00:27:46.520also that hierarchy um and relational nature of life is is baked into the fifth commandment i
00:27:52.140think that you know the idea that we're to honor our father and our mother i mean like the underlying
00:27:57.220presupposition of that is that life is relational but life is hierarchical you know and the father
00:28:04.500was the the priest of the home so to speak you know so they didn't have that arbitrary secular
00:28:09.840sacred divide you know uh the way that we do so you know i i think that that we see this loss of
00:28:16.780the hierarchy you know but we have relation so but relation without hierarchy ends up becoming
00:28:22.880that kind of effeminate sort of culture uh where men aren't allowed to fight really uh men aren't
00:28:29.140allowed to protect and compete and we outsource all of that and so what's left for them to do
00:28:34.120well i guess we'll be like a woman yep i think you're absolutely right well i think this has
00:28:39.680been really helpful for me. I think our listeners are really going to appreciate it. I want to give
00:28:42.820you the final word, Pastor Shooping. Keep me with the point made earlier. You're right. I think it's
00:28:51.300good to show that kind of respect, but could you give us just, I don't know, anything you want to
00:28:56.740leave us with our listeners? I'm sure some, you know, I've done one video on Eastern Orthodoxy
00:29:02.320and I flew solo for that one. And I just made a few just general points, things that I was aware
00:29:08.260with not near the specificity that we've gone into today so i think this will be a very helpful
00:29:13.140follow-up but the general one that i did got a lot of guys who um not a lot of protestants
00:29:19.240necessarily trying to find out about eastern orthodoxy but a lot of eastern orthodoxy guys
00:29:23.780watching the video and and getting upset so i i i have no doubt you're going to have a lot of guys
00:29:29.780who are eastern orthodoxy watching this maybe the final word rather than to the protestant maybe the
00:29:35.980final word could go to them um do you have anything to say to them um you know i i often
00:29:42.940try to leave eastern orthodox people alone and and speak uh to protestants and even when people
00:29:49.840get to the point where they're uh leaving protestantism and they kind of in their heart
00:29:55.540turn that corner you know uh to become eastern orthodox like i find that that kind of like
00:30:02.060psychological leap is really profound. And there's really very little that can be said other than I
00:30:08.400wish them well. But I would maybe only reiterate the concept of the canonical argument where a
00:30:16.800person needs to actually go and look at the formally approved official documents and official
00:30:22.720theology, or and the pillar saints whose theology informed some of these councils.
00:30:31.480So like John of Damascus with icons, I think it's a phony argument that he gives.
00:30:47.740But he actually turns in his theology, in his second sermon or second homily on the feast of Mary's entrance into the temple, they literally believe, and at the level of their hymns and their formal theology, that she lived in the Holy of Holies from the time she was three years old and was fed by angels.
00:31:11.680That's a formal, factual belief that they hold to.0.70
00:31:16.220That sounds like something they got from Muhammad or something.
00:31:18.500You know, that's something, you know, you would expect to find in the Koran, right?0.96
00:31:21.720Because you find some of those common Christian heresies, you know, that, you know, Muhammad was like, he heard this and thought it was true.0.89
00:31:26.880And he picked up on it to, you know, because he's forming his line, a good life, it's going to be believable, you know, keep some things that are true.0.99
00:31:33.040But it's anyways, it sounds like a like a Muslim heresy.0.96
00:31:36.980Yeah, well, they picked it up from, I think it's a third century text that was kind of like a Gnostic text where the Christians picked up the idea of Mary's ever virginity, the proto-evangelium of James.0.95
00:31:52.540And so that text itself was rejected and considered anathema in and of itself at different points.
00:31:59.740But anyway, it somehow seeped into the water of the Eastern Orthodox Church.
00:32:03.840But I would also add that not only did Gregory Palamas affirm that about Mary, but he said that she made like mystical ascents up and down to heaven.
00:32:16.880And that he made that or he said that Mary made a way to heaven through this ascetical, mystical discipline.
00:32:25.040And that she essentially brought Jesus down to save the world.
00:32:29.880that Jesus was almost an instrument in Mary's hand.
00:32:42.860that you can't even approach Jesus unless you go through Mary first.
00:32:46.940Not just that Jesus came through Mary,
00:32:50.360and therefore she kind of has like a poetic sense.
00:32:53.740There's a poetic sense in which salvation, who is Jesus, came through Mary.
00:32:57.700They've turned that into like a metaphor for a permanent situation where now she's a transcendental kind of person that we have to go to to get to Jesus.
00:33:09.820And that's in their official doctrines and official teachings.
00:33:13.820And if you look in like the Akathist hymn to Mary, they sing that she's the propitiation for the world.
00:33:20.260and they mean it when you put it together and you see it like if you're an evangelical and you go
00:33:27.620into the protestant world you have like so many gospel filters and you just like filter out a lot
00:33:33.960of nonsense and noise but when you're in there and you're steeping for a while you either absorb all
00:33:40.180the craziness or the craziness starts to appear to you when you leave but some of that craziness
00:33:45.520is that they really believe that Mary is a saving principle unless they've been westernized,
00:33:51.280unless they become like Americanized Orthodox. And then they kind of become Protestantizing
00:33:57.680because there was a Protestantizing movement in Russian Orthodoxy going all the way back to the
00:34:03.3601700s. They were reading and even teaching in their seminaries, either Protestant scholastic
00:34:09.360textbooks or Roman Catholic, like Jesuit type textbooks. So there was a huge Western influence
00:34:15.500where you'll find in Russian Orthodoxy in particular, some things that sound kind of good,
00:34:20.760kind of okay. Like, oh, are they teaching, you know, penal substitutionary atonement in
00:34:25.140this author? But that's because they were reading Protestant and, and reformed authors
00:34:30.060in Russia at the time. And so it really was hugely influential. But so I would say that
00:34:36.240That's another thing is like, stop listening to what your local priest says and go to the formal documents.
00:34:44.140Stop just saying that there's this this made up orthodox phronema or mindset that's independent from what the ecumenical councils and what the later councils all said,
00:34:56.080where they anathematize Luther and Lutherans and Calvin and Calvinists,
00:35:01.580and they get rid of the gospel by adding faith and works, like all of that stuff.
00:35:08.080Like go to the real, actual, authentic documents and stop listening to what your friendly neighborhood priest says
00:35:14.420because they went to the same seminary I went to or a seminary similar,
00:35:19.120and I can tell you that it's a jungle out there.0.95
00:35:22.660Orthodox don't know what they believe.
00:35:24.240They just say it's an orthodox phronema and we love the fathers, but we don't take what any one father says.
00:35:30.040So I couldn't really tell you what we really believe, but definitely not penal substitutionary atonement.
00:35:40.340Thank you so much for coming on the show.
00:35:42.160I really hope that by God's grace, if some guys who prescribe to Eastern Orthodoxy are listening to the show, that they would be open, that they would be humble, that they would at least prayerfully consider the arguments that you've made.
00:35:52.620I think they're compelling and yeah, I appreciate you coming on the show.
00:35:56.360And for every Protestant that's listening, everybody who follows this channel that would
00:36:00.040be within the Protestant and many of you, you know, Protestant reformed tradition, I
00:36:05.400think it's helpful for us just to be more educated on this particular subject because
00:36:08.760it doesn't look like it's going to go away anytime soon.
00:36:12.220And so I think for us to be aware with what somebody within Eastern Orthodoxy actually
00:36:18.060believes, what they say they believe, but then what the history actually says, what the original
00:36:23.780documents actually say, so that we can engage with love and with truth, that we can engage
00:36:31.620for the glory of God and for the good of our neighbors that we want to see truly have saving
00:36:38.100faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ, that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone,
00:36:42.920in Christ alone, according to the scripture alone, to the glory of God alone. So thank you so much
00:36:48.400for coming on the show. I think it's been really helpful. And I hope that all of our listeners have
00:36:52.200been blessed. Thanks for tuning in. My pleasure. Thank you for having me, Joel.
00:36:56.220Fight by flight. Why leaving godless places is loving godless places. I've had a lot of people
00:37:02.860tell me recently, Pastor Joel, you're post-millennial. You claim to believe that Jesus
00:37:08.820is king of every square inch, but apparently you don't think he's king of California.
00:37:12.920because I've heard your personal story that you used to be a pastor there and that you left for
00:37:18.860the state of Texas. Notice the title, not fight or flight, but fight by flight. Think of the
00:37:26.820prodigal son. He comes to the end of his rope. He's longing to be fed with the pods given to
00:37:32.480the pigs. And the parable says no one gave him anything. No member of the father's house tracked
00:37:40.080him down to give him a handout. He was hurting. He had to lie in the bed that he had made for himself
00:37:47.480by his foolish choices. You know what the next words in that parable are? No one gave him anything0.98
00:37:53.180and he came to his senses. He began to repent. There are 10 million professing Christians
00:38:00.880currently living in the state of California. What if they're fighting but at the same time0.65
00:38:07.280while well-intentioned, they're also funding. What if California could be brought to its knees
00:38:13.560simply by the faithful not fighting there, but leaving there, and forcing Gavin Newsom
00:38:20.240and other tyrants like him to actually have to take a spoonful of their own medicine?
00:38:27.480The book has been forwarded by Douglas Wilson. It's been endorsed by Michael Foster. It's good
00:38:33.080to be a man. Also Meg Basham, The Daily Wire, and Steve Dace from The Blaze Network. It's available
00:38:39.780on Amazon, as well as a cheaper copy that can be purchased right from our website, which is
00:38:46.960rightresponseministries.com. Check it out today. Can I be frank with you for just a second right
00:38:52.820here at the end? Look, some of you guys, you're financially supporting this ministry, and from
00:38:57.840the bottom of my heart, I say thank you. I cannot thank you enough. However, some of you, you just,
00:39:05.060you can't afford it. In fact, some of you, you shouldn't afford it. Let's be honest. I mean,
00:39:11.420we're living in Joe Biden's ridiculous economy. Our nation and our totalitarian political elites0.98
00:39:19.520lost their minds over the last three years due to COVID. We have written checks that we simply
00:39:27.020cannot cash. It doesn't matter if people change the definition of a recession. We are living in
00:39:33.600a recession right now regardless. Some of you are struggling to afford a carton of eggs at the
00:39:40.480grocery store. You cannot support financially this ministry at this time nor should you but you could
00:39:48.020still help us tremendously. I am asking you please if you're willing to do so take one minute of your
00:39:55.460time. Leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform, iTunes, Spotify, whatever that
00:40:02.660might be. This is the way the system works. We want to be innocent as doves, but shrewd as vipers.
00:40:09.520We need to be strategic. You leave us a five-star review, and our podcast shows up for more people.
00:40:16.760And the Word of God and courageous theology applied in practical ways to every realm of life
00:40:23.900gets out there. Help us get it out there. Thanks for tuning in.