The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Tucker Carlson, The Rise Of The American Caesar, & The Government’s Plan To Take Our Kids w Toby Sumpter

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00:00:27.500 All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied. I am your host, Pastor Joel

00:00:32.280 Webbin with Right Response Ministries. Now, in this episode of Theology Applied, I was very

00:00:36.980 privileged to welcome back to the show, Pastor Toby Sumter. The title for this episode is

00:00:42.520 Tucker Carlson, The Rise of the American Caesar, and the Government's Secret Plan to Take Our Kids.

00:00:50.500 We talk about the fact that apparently Tucker Carlson is now a Calvinist. We also talk about

00:00:56.420 the very real possibility, if things continue going the way they are, of there being an American

00:01:02.220 dictator arising on the scene within the next generation. And then lastly, we talk about the

00:01:08.320 judicial plan of our government to ultimately usurp the authority of parents when it comes

00:01:14.320 to ownership over our own children. All that and more in this episode of Theology Applied.

00:01:21.480 Applying God's Word to every aspect of life.

00:01:24.820 This is Theology Applied.

00:01:31.120 All right, welcome to another episode of Theology Applied.

00:01:33.920 And in this particular episode, I am privileged to welcome back to the show,

00:01:37.860 Toby Sumter.

00:01:38.840 Toby, thanks for coming on.

00:01:40.520 Thanks for having me, Joel.

00:01:41.820 Tell our listeners just a little bit about yourself for those who may be hearing from

00:01:45.640 you for the first time.

00:01:47.200 Yeah, I am married.

00:01:50.500 my wife is jenny we have four kids i'm a pastor of church in moscow idaho a king's cross church

00:01:57.940 a sister congregation to christ church and um i uh am a co-host of cross politic uh show and

00:02:06.260 podcast uh the kind of flagship show the fight laugh feast network and um i know what else i'm

00:02:14.260 connected with logos school i'm one of the the founding um classical christian schools in the

00:02:19.460 country and I'm also a graduate and now a board member of New St. Andrews College also here in

00:02:26.260 Moscow. Great. Awesome. Tell us a little bit about your conference that you got coming up.

00:02:33.260 Yeah. I assume you mean the Fight, Laugh, Feast conference. There's a lot of conferences.

00:02:38.820 There are a lot of conferences. Conferences are always coming up.

00:02:41.720 Fight, Laugh, Feast Conference is in Kentucky this year, October 11th through the 14th at the

00:02:49.120 Ark Encounter. So Ken Ham has been working really, really hard for decades to remind

00:03:00.720 believers and the world, for that matter, that God created the world in six days,

00:03:06.240 that his word is true, that there really was a worldwide flood, that God saved Noah and his

00:03:10.860 family and a bunch of animals through it and so he built this life-size ark uh in kentucky in the

00:03:16.820 middle of nowhere kentucky it's this massive museum though dedicated to uh demonstrating

00:03:23.780 the truth of the bible and so there's and there's a conference center right on the the grounds there

00:03:29.380 um uh and uh so we're doing our annual fight life feast conference the theme is the politics of six

00:03:35.300 day creation. So I think one of the central places where Christians in this country really, 0.62

00:03:43.660 I think, got behind the eight ball and began losing and giving ground culturally was particularly in 0.68

00:03:52.600 the matter of God's authority in the realm of science and in the origin of the world. How do

00:03:59.180 get to a point where, you know, an unborn baby is just a clump of cells, doesn't have a human

00:04:06.300 dignity, the right to be protected by law? How do you get to the point where we don't know what a

00:04:09.420 man is, what a woman is, what marriage is? All these things are rooted in creation, the created

00:04:16.500 order, and in the authority of God's Word. And so there'll be talks from Ken Ham, Dr. Gordon Wilson

00:04:23.580 from Right in the Dance, Pastor Doug Wilson will be there giving talks, Joe Rigney will be giving

00:04:31.240 a talk, Ben Merkel will be giving a talk, we'll do a live show at the end as well with guests to

00:04:38.460 be announced, but it's a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and bring your whole family and see the

00:04:48.220 Ark, see the Creation Museum, and hang out with a bunch of your friends from all over the country

00:04:53.100 who are fighting, um, uh, all the woke craziness. Great. Awesome. Uh, speaking of six day

00:05:00.800 literal creation, are you, are you, and then also I'm curious about Ken Ham, if you have knowledge

00:05:07.740 of this, are you a Nephilim guy or do you take the Sethite view? What's your position on Genesis

00:05:14.060 chapter 6, verse 4. Yeah, I don't know Ken Ham's view. I cannot figure out how to get

00:05:27.380 the sons of God to mean angels in Genesis 6. So I don't think that that's what's going on in

00:05:37.940 Genesis six, but, um, I have no problem, um, with the, the idea of angels doing weird things

00:05:48.160 with people and us getting crazy superhuman people out of that. Um, Jude talks about angels

00:05:56.100 going after, after strange flesh. Um, there's, uh, there's enough stories in the ancient world

00:06:02.540 about um angels you know gods raping women and things like this and creatures coming into

00:06:09.440 existence that i actually don't have a problem with that so cosmologically i'm fine i i believe

00:06:14.860 probably something like nephilim um really did exist um and did weird things and messed up our

00:06:21.640 world uh i just don't see it in genesis 6 so sons of god in genesis genesis 6 4 do you see that as

00:06:28.240 like tracking back the genealogy adam son of god so sons of god being right like um this line of

00:06:34.860 seth the you know the messianic lineage or do you see it like some guys you know would say sons of

00:06:39.240 god is used to like for kings and so you have you know like attila the hun with a ton of you know

00:06:44.580 posterity because he's trying to further his line so do you see it as just seth his line or do you

00:06:49.400 see it as kings mighty men yeah i see it as the lines of the line of seth um who were uh i think

00:06:57.700 mighty men but i think primarily i mean given the context it's it's hard to go from genesis 5 where

00:07:04.820 you've got adam the son of god and his children and then all the all you know the that that

00:07:11.120 lineage and then genesis 6 who are the sons of god in that context uh i think they're the sons

00:07:15.700 of Seth, but, um, but in Job, the sons of God are angels. Right. And, uh, I don't, um, so I,

00:07:23.360 I get the, uh, I get the argument. And I also think probably something like that happened.

00:07:29.220 We got giants from somewhere and we got a bunch of knowledge from somewhere. I'm just not sure.

00:07:34.040 I just don't see it in Genesis six. I'd love to be wrong, but yeah. All right. Well, that's a

00:07:39.480 boring view. The Seth eye view could be right, but it's the boring view, the fun view. It may

00:07:44.340 not be true, but the fun view is hybrid half fallen angel. That's the view I take, but 0.77

00:07:50.440 go ahead. What are you saying? You cut out a little bit for me. Say it again. No worries.

00:07:57.160 No, I was just saying that's the, that's the, uh, that's the view that I think is true,

00:08:00.420 but I know it's the view that is fun. It's the fun view. So, um, all right, well, let's go ahead

00:08:07.120 and, uh, hop in. I was thinking we could, um, play this clip that's been circulating around

00:08:13.100 in regards to tucker carlson some guys have done some takes on this but i think that it would be

00:08:18.040 interesting to hear your take um and basically it's just him you know drawing i think a fairly

00:08:25.100 good balance between uh human agency responsibility of man and he doesn't explicitly come out and say

00:08:32.680 it but really what he's describing is the sovereignty of god so let's go ahead and play

00:08:36.520 that clip nathan and uh me and toby will will give our thoughts most important election of our

00:08:41.620 a lifetime how do you explain well i'm clinging to the hope that elections still matter i really

00:08:46.880 want to believe that because i'm american in a very fundamental way and so i believe in in the

00:08:51.660 in the actual mechanics of democracy like the people should rule you know um so uh but leaving

00:08:58.360 aside even elections i think it's clearly a pivot point in history and i don't think the issues that

00:09:03.400 we debate and really are in some ways distractions are the core issues at all i mean it really there

00:09:09.460 are forces unseen forces acting on people um it's funny in february i was like trying to think about

00:09:18.140 what to do for land i'm not a particularly faithful or virtuous person but like you're

00:09:21.760 trying to do something i already quit smoking so like what's next and i thought well i'm just

00:09:25.740 going to read the bible and no i'm not going to do a bible study i'm a protestant so i feel like

00:09:29.320 i have a right to kind of read it myself and i know i'm sorry i feel that way and uh and so i've

00:09:38.480 been reading it since february and i'm like about halfway done and and i haven't talked to anyone

00:09:43.440 about it and i haven't been in just been myself reading it and and i've all got it's like the

00:09:48.660 most interesting thing i think i've ever done it's unbelievable the amount of drama in those books

00:09:54.800 that has been hidden for me as a regular churchgoer in the episcopal church like wait why

00:09:59.400 didn't you ever mention this is like unbelievable what but the two things i have come away with

00:10:05.720 after reading the entire New Testament and I'm up to Deuteronomy and the Old Testament

00:10:09.080 is the every part with exception of Jesus every figure is like really flawed big time like flawed

00:10:17.520 in a way where you'd be like I don't know if I could be friends with that person you know what

00:10:20.300 I mean Abraham enters Egypt he's like oh it's my sister actually take her what I was saying to my

00:10:27.680 wife who was a who was a religion teacher I was like what why didn't anyone what is that and she's

00:10:33.000 like maybe the point is that god takes people who are not perfect people not only not perfect people

00:10:37.380 like they're so imperfect again i don't think i can have dinner with them and uses them for these

00:10:42.040 grander purposes that's the first thing i noticed the second thing i notice is that people while

00:10:46.840 they have free will of course and they can make decisions and they live with the consequences of

00:10:51.440 those decisions they're not really in charge of the arc of history at all they are being acted

00:10:56.920 upon a lot. Amen. Okay. And I never really appreciated that because I'm American. And so

00:11:02.480 I grew up with this feeling that we're the sum total of our choices. Well, that's not what I'm

00:11:07.120 reading at all. Yeah. People's choices matter. You need to do certain things and not do other

00:11:11.940 things. On the other hand, you are not in charge. You are being acted upon by a world you can't see.

00:11:18.800 And that, by the way, is consistent with my life experience. Like I've seen that I've lived that

00:11:23.020 i'm 54 and so i feel like it's really important to approach politics with that in mind like a lot

00:11:30.400 of these issues are symbols of this much larger battle and and the final thing i will say is i do

00:11:36.660 think we should approach these questions with humility amen you know we don't always know

00:11:41.160 i was at dinner last night at 801 which i strongly recommend surprisingly good lobster kind of weird

00:11:46.780 for iowa i'm like is this from the coast of iowa no but it was good but anyway we were talking about

00:11:53.980 candidates and i was eating with someone who's a christian and i and i said i can't honestly i

00:11:59.140 can't tell if this person is a tool of light or darkness you know what i mean um so we don't

00:12:05.560 always know actually at all and we should always admit that you know i've got very strong feelings

00:12:11.120 about all kinds of issues but it's so important to be open to the possibility that i'm completely

00:12:15.560 wrong and that what i'm espousing is actually destructive not constructive um so just to

00:12:22.320 approach it with with humility there you have it pretty interesting what do you think tucker

00:12:29.420 carlson's a calvinist yeah that's what it sounds like he's definitely i mean notice too that he's

00:12:36.000 just like straight reading the bible no commentaries no no you know i mean you know

00:12:41.800 Maybe even to an extreme, but like, you know, like, hey, I'm going to read my Bible and I'm going to see what I see.

00:12:46.640 And if you read the Bible and you have not been contaminated by a lot of, I don't know, church people, a lot of maybe, you know, theologians or theological controversies, I think he's absolutely right.

00:13:03.560 That's what you come away with. You come away with the flaws of people, the fallenness of man,

00:13:11.020 and we're not really in charge. God is in charge. And then even the last point, humility.

00:13:21.860 You know, not too long ago, a newer person to the congregation somehow ended up in our church,

00:13:29.720 And after about six months, came in to meet me, and she said, I just heard recently that our church is Calvinist.

00:13:39.020 And she said, I've always heard that that would mean that, you know, you guys think you know who the elect are, who the saved are, and you're sort of like judgmental of everyone.

00:13:54.360 And I was like, actually, it's, you know, I mean, I'm sure there are some, you know, people who call themselves Calvinists who have said crazy things like that, but they got it upside down and backwards.

00:14:04.940 Did you ask her if she had been listening to Leighton Flowers?

00:14:09.300 I feel like that.

00:14:10.620 I'm like, how do you come away with?

00:14:12.580 I mean, she's obviously been listening to someone who does not like Calvinism.

00:14:16.860 But in fact, I mean, if you think about the flawed nature of people, your own flaws, your own sins, your own fallenness, and then God's electing grace from before time, there's nothing about that that leaves anybody puffed up or arrogant, much less understanding what God is up to.

00:14:42.060 But it leaves you in a dramatically humble place, just grateful, worshiping God, full of joy, full of humility, like Tucker says.

00:14:54.020 Yep, I agree.

00:14:55.420 Yeah, no, it was really interesting.

00:14:56.880 I mean, he's certainly, you know, just a plain reading the text, no commentaries.

00:15:01.000 He's not coming away as someone, you know, who would affirm fatalism.

00:15:05.920 He's not coming away saying that, you know, human agency has no part, that it doesn't matter at all.

00:15:10.700 He's saying choices matter. We need to do the right thing. Um, but he's just recognizing that,

00:15:16.020 uh, despite the choices that we make, uh, we, we just have, we have a moral obligation,

00:15:21.360 but we have little control. That's, I think that's the difference. Moral obligation,

00:15:26.260 but little control that there, um, that, that God's hand is upon everything. He's writing the

00:15:32.680 story. There's something larger outside of us that's governing all these different things,

00:15:36.680 uh, to where terrible decisions, um, get, you know, used and orchestrated in such a way that

00:15:43.220 bring out about immense good, like the most terrible thing that ever happened, the, you know,

00:15:47.660 the wrongful murder of the only truly innocent man. And yet God's hand predestined that to come

00:15:54.460 about. And so, right. Anyways, I just thought it was a really interesting clip. Uh, you don't see

00:15:58.380 a whole lot of that on TV, you know, from somebody who's a major figure talking about the Bible,

00:16:03.360 speaking frankly, speaking in a way that I even would be able to say, yeah, the vast majority of

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00:19:21.360 Would you vote for Tucker for president if he ran?

00:19:26.340 Probably.

00:19:27.900 I think I probably would.

00:19:29.400 I probably would.

00:19:30.040 I mean, I haven't thought of him quite like that, but I think, you know, he is ever since he's left Fox, I think he seems happier than ever.

00:19:44.360 Just like, I mean, he's got a good sense of humor regardless, but it seems like everything I've seen him in since then seems happier and he's even more free.

00:19:53.660 He's just saying what he thinks. And and I think that's the thing that, you know, for all the for all the flaws and warts of of somebody like Trump, that was the thing that I think a lot of people appreciated about him is like there's there's no canned speech here.

00:20:08.700 like he's just saying he's just saying what he thinks and he doesn't really care and you know

00:20:13.520 for good and for ill um and but i i like a lot of what um uh tucker says i i think uh there's

00:20:20.880 there's places where i've i've taken issue with him and and uh but i think uh but on the whole

00:20:26.840 um a uh you know a nominal ish maybe recovering episcopal who reads his bible um is uh probably

00:20:35.720 a vast improvement over most of what we could get these days. Right. I completely agree. Uh,

00:20:42.300 that brings me to another question. So some guys have been talking a little bit about, uh, Caesarism

00:20:47.880 and the idea of, uh, that actually, you know, seems like a impossibility, um, with the United

00:20:54.840 States of America, uh, just given our history. Um, but a lot of times, you know, you'll have

00:21:01.260 one major charismatic figure rise to almost total power in the context of where there's

00:21:10.440 just a high degree of chaos, division, uncertainty.

00:21:16.600 And, you know, I'm still holding out hope that God would be merciful, that people will

00:21:22.040 repent, that the church first and foremost will repent, that God might send revival,

00:21:27.760 that there'll be more regenerate hearts, that they would repent, that we could actually hold

00:21:33.720 to this constitutional republic in a way that honors the Lord. But I think that if we don't

00:21:40.840 turn the tide, that if repentance is not brought about, it does kind of feel like our nation is on

00:21:49.020 its last leg, like there's going to be some major change, whether that's imploding from within or

00:21:54.080 whether that's being so weakened by our own division and our own sin and chaos that we're

00:22:01.480 taken over by some form, you know, foreign power, like China or whatever, or that our government

00:22:07.420 just transitions entirely from, you know, constitutional republic, which we haven't

00:22:12.640 really been much of one lately to something like, you know, a Caesar who's ruling with an iron

00:22:18.580 scepter. Do you think those kinds of things are possible? Do you have any prediction for us?

00:22:22.040 um i don't know about predictions but yeah it's absolutely possible i mean when you know

00:22:27.220 never never say never never say that's impossible i mean you know and and and the you know the era

00:22:34.680 we're living in is is proof of that i mean you just you know you think just when you know the

00:22:39.700 crazy clown car can't get crazier um you know one of the clowns does something else so um absolutely

00:22:48.480 And I think we have history to back up that concern, that fear.

00:22:54.920 In fact, the founders of our country, they, for the most part, despised the notion of democracy.

00:23:05.340 The word democracy, the notion of democracy was, for many of the founders of our country, synonymous with anarchy.

00:23:14.520 It was synonymous with mobs.

00:23:16.600 And so remember, the American Revolution and the French Revolution were very, very different animals.

00:23:24.840 The American Revolution was a war primarily of defense, seeking to protect the English common law system.

00:23:33.600 And they fought a defensive war against the crown of England that was breaking covenants that they had made with the colonies, particularly that the king had made with the colonies.

00:23:46.600 um and so they were fighting in defense of the english common law christian um form of government

00:23:53.480 the french uh french revolution was throwing that all down it was revolutionary it was anarchy and

00:23:59.680 remember one of their primary uh slogans was democracy democracy democracy democracy um and

00:24:07.440 but the the founders of america they read um deeply particularly into greek history

00:24:12.920 and and they knew number one uh they were christians they knew the old testament and the

00:24:17.960 old testament um uh government that god set up in israel was a republic a representative republic

00:24:24.520 constitutional republic not a democracy but secondly if you read um the history of the

00:24:30.900 greek democracies uh the the american founders thought that they were all cautionary tales

00:24:37.000 um every time you had a democracy form in one of the city states in in greece it lasted a

00:24:44.020 generation maybe two and then it devolved into chaos anarchy and then in came a dictator right

00:24:51.460 in came a caesar in came a tyrant and um and so the um and so that was that was the the repeated

00:24:59.260 pattern and then of course in rome you have a roman republic for a while and then under the

00:25:04.320 caesars julius caesar and then augustus caesar you have uh the the the republic crumbling and the

00:25:12.120 and the empire um emerging and then the same thing happened during the french revolution

00:25:17.760 you had democracy democracy you know so-called um blood in the streets um the hierarchy you know

00:25:24.780 guillotined uh the leaders of the revolution many of them getting guillotined and then in the midst

00:25:30.720 of that chaos, out comes Napoleon Bonaparte. And so we've absolutely seen this many times,

00:25:39.960 and it frequently begins in the name of democracy. But the founders of America said democracy is the

00:25:48.080 first movement of anarchy, chaos, mobs, and then in the context of mobs, everyone's desperate for

00:25:57.580 some kind of order and then some kind of charismatic military leader um arises who

00:26:04.120 says i can give you order um i can bring i can bring things back into order and um and that's

00:26:11.000 what happened again with napoleon um it's what's happened um it's it happened in the um uh even

00:26:17.240 even uh frequently what happens is those um the the communist um marxist move is to actually

00:26:24.160 foment that chaos foment that revolution that chaos and then um and then in the midst of that

00:26:30.960 um hey i've got a solution it's this it's this caesar it's this napoleon it's this charismatic

00:26:37.320 leader this dictator um and so i think it's absolutely um a possibility um i i think um

00:26:45.460 i think that i think i i i have a lot more hope that we're not on the um on the cusp of that

00:26:53.560 But I also think that if things don't change, that is, I think that is the direction things will go. If the liberal elites can get what's going on in the big cities on the coasts to bleed into middle America, then I think, you know, that would be what we're headed for.

00:27:13.240 At the moment, though, I think there's a really good, strong reaction taking place.

00:27:22.200 I think there's a lot of, even amongst those who aren't necessarily Christian or Bible-believing Christian, but at least sort of old-school American, red state, conservative, whatever, I haven't even listened to it.

00:27:37.100 but I hear there's something going on about, you know,

00:27:39.140 there's some country song about not in our small town or something like that.

00:27:43.780 Right, right.

00:27:44.620 You know, but that sentiment, I think there is a bunch of that,

00:27:47.400 like seeing videos of smash and grab in San Francisco,

00:27:51.020 smash and grab on the coastal cities and kind of this chaos breaking out

00:27:56.080 and these homeless cities and everything else.

00:27:59.120 I think there's a bunch of people saying, no, you're not doing that in my town.

00:28:02.640 We saw some of that even during the BLM riots in 2020, where in Seattle, there was a little, you know, Chaz, Chop, whatever, something, city. 0.68

00:28:14.080 And it started bleeding over in Washington state. 0.63

00:28:18.000 And, you know, Idaho's were right on the east border of Washington.

00:28:23.180 And it was bleeding over in Washington.

00:28:25.400 And people were driving, BLM protesters were driving to other cities trying to spread that.

00:28:31.060 and i got like i think 15 minutes out of seattle and ran into a bunch of red-blooded washingtonians

00:28:37.760 with their ar-15s um who incidentally were lined up with local sheriff and police officers

00:28:44.320 and and there were stories of these cars you know pulling into a town these you know crazies

00:28:52.820 getting out looking around seeing you know officers and and and god-fearing citizens

00:28:58.540 standing there with their firearms getting back in their cars and driving away um and uh and i

00:29:04.500 think i think the same thing happened up just north of us in coeur d'alene idaho um but uh i

00:29:09.800 think there is a um there's a decent chance with the drag queen story hour thing and the um and

00:29:17.480 the sex change operations on kids and the um and giving uh minors these uh hormone therapies and

00:29:24.780 stuff, I think there's a really good chance that the hard left has really overplayed their hand

00:29:31.060 and we're in the process of a strong pushback to saying, no, we're at least a broadly Christian

00:29:41.120 republic, and I'm hopeful. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I like what you were saying in terms of, you know,

00:29:49.780 just citing other places within history. It was about one generation of a raw democracy

00:29:54.660 And then it would birth some kind of dictator or Caesar.

00:29:58.980 And, you know, for us, we're about, you know, a quarter of a millennium into this, you know, this American project, you know, about getting at the 250 year mark.

00:30:10.660 And and it's not like we've had 250 years of raw democracy.

00:30:14.200 That's that's not what it was.

00:30:15.600 You know, we had a constitutional republic, you know, representational government.

00:30:20.140 There is a vote of the people for elected officers, but it has not been a democracy in the way that, you know, our founders spoke so negatively of.

00:30:29.020 And so and so it seems like to me, from my perspective, that we're really that that that switch is is pretty recent.

00:30:37.560 If this and even then, I don't know if the switch has fully been made, but of moving from a constitutional republic to more of a raw mob rule democracy type thing.

00:30:48.240 if, if there has been any switch at all, which I think there's been at least some degree of a

00:30:53.000 transition to that it's been recent. So it seems like, you know, in keeping, you know, with the

00:30:58.060 pattern of other places, if it was going to be a full generation, it seems like we would probably

00:31:02.580 be about 40 years out from, uh, from that happening, but maybe even longer, you know,

00:31:08.940 Lord willing with, um, with hitting the brakes. And it seems like, you know, the last three years

00:31:14.100 has been, um, on one hand, it's been, you know, things ramping up, but on the other, uh, side of

00:31:19.540 the coin, it's, it's been a big stomp on the brakes because I think, uh, if everything just

00:31:24.700 went according to plan, uh, we'd be in more trouble than we are. But the problem I think for

00:31:29.820 the left was that 2020, uh, gave them just kind of like, um, it's like they took a shot of liquid

00:31:36.080 courage and, uh, and overplayed their hand. And I think that the brakes, uh, people stomping on

00:31:42.860 the brakes, uh, in flyover country, you know, and the heartland of America, the, the stomp

00:31:48.780 on the brakes has been harder than, uh, than the push on the gas, uh, that 2020 caused

00:31:53.900 them to kind of, you know, like the, the old illustration analogy of a frog, you know,

00:31:58.840 slowly being, you know, water heated up and then it's eventually boiled alive.

00:32:02.500 But it's, it feels like 2020 and God's providence was, um, the, what looked like the right set

00:32:08.820 of circumstances to go ahead and, and skip, you know, 10 degrees in a minute when ordinarily

00:32:15.020 that, that adjustment would have been made slower over an hour. And so the left took advantage of

00:32:20.060 that. It was like, Hey, we could, we can, you know, we could speed things up right here. And,

00:32:24.360 and people noticed, which is a kindness of the Lord. And so, so things did speed up for a second

00:32:31.920 there, but in some ways I feel like they've slowed way down to where I, I think that just

00:32:38.700 thinking of like the Overton window and acceptable discourse and ideas and those kinds of, I think

00:32:44.300 that you can talk about more, um, fundamentally conservative ideas openly today in 2023 than you

00:32:52.120 could before 2020, like in 2019. Um, that, like the, that, the, um, the attempt of being more

00:33:01.380 progressive in 2020, uh, not only was it unsuccessful, I think it backfired. I think

00:33:06.440 that um that yeah that god was merciful two two two things on that one is i think probably one of

00:33:13.940 the most biggest fails um of 2020 um was um having the kids home so long uh in so many states and

00:33:24.520 then doing online classrooms uh for so many kids i think i think a whole bunch of normal parents

00:33:31.480 all of a sudden got this front row seat into what was actually happening in classrooms and um and

00:33:38.480 and the and the and the absolute craziness of the woke agenda and the sexual revolution um trying to

00:33:44.900 get the kids um and then i think also just um there's something um god used something that was

00:33:52.940 you know really evil in many respects um both you know the the natural evil of whatever this

00:33:59.860 virus was oh my light just went out yeah i saw that there we go um i'm not moving enough i need

00:34:07.280 to move more um uh but also the uh i think just the evil of these governments trying to seize

00:34:13.220 control and uh you know and dictate to us um uh life and business and worship and all these things

00:34:19.980 And and all of a sudden, you have all these families together. And I think there was probably a lot of harm and difficulty that happened.

00:34:26.940 But I think also God did something with that. I don't know about you. I'm curious what it was like down in your neck of the woods in Texas.

00:34:34.140 But I would just say even as a very anecdotal, this isn't like the scientific evidence at all.

00:34:40.200 But I think this last Pride Month, 2023 Pride Month, was the most muted I've seen in a while.

00:34:52.000 You know, there was still rainbow flags around here and there, but I would say it was a lot less in your face.

00:34:59.200 My wife had noticed, I'm sure like it probably varies some sort of store, but my wife noticed last year,

00:35:05.780 our local walmart here in moscow had rainbow flags at every single register walmart and this

00:35:13.740 year she said there might have been one or two up in the whole store but it wasn't at every single

00:35:18.320 register like it was definitely it was pulled back dialed back um and uh you know i just i wonder

00:35:24.960 what you saw down there but it seems to me like again a similar kind of not gone but maybe a

00:35:30.180 little more muted. Yeah, no, I think you're right. Rainbow fatigue is real. I think people just sick

00:35:37.340 of it. Like I think, you know, started off strong, like some companies, June 1st, you know, came out

00:35:42.700 with, you know, um, their logo, you know, re re done with the rainbow colors and those kinds of

00:35:49.420 things. And a lot of major companies, um, by like day two, day three, day four, like very early on

00:35:55.820 in the month of june retracted that went back to the original logo because they got so much

00:36:00.380 uh pushback i think people were just kind of people are done you know and it's not just because

00:36:05.980 of 2020 but it's now three years running compounding of uh people just realizing okay like

00:36:12.060 we've been played the the idea of um well we just want the same rights as as you have which was

00:36:18.120 always a lie you have the same right you have the right to marry someone of legal age of the

00:36:22.520 opposite sex right you have the right to get married what you're asking for is a right that 0.63

00:36:27.520 nobody has it's a thing that's not marriage you don't have nobody has a right to not marriage

00:36:32.600 everyone has a right to marriage so it's always always a silly thing um but you know but a lot

00:36:39.680 of people fell for it you know and and i think you know misguided sense of empathy you know and

00:36:44.800 um and so a lot of people fell for it but i think at this point a lot of the people who fell for it

00:36:49.940 just to speak plainly. I think, um, plenty of men fell for it, but I think a lot of women,

00:36:55.100 uh, fell for it. But then those same women, uh, started watching the LGBT jihad, you know, 0.83

00:37:01.660 be shoved down their little Susie and little Johnny's throat when they stayed home, you know, 0.64

00:37:06.640 we're doing class online and, and finally, you know, kind of got the memo and realized, Oh,

00:37:11.600 you don't want to just live your private life. Um, you want to be able, uh, for, uh, naked men

00:37:18.420 to be riding bicycles downtown in a parade in New York in front of children. That's what you 0.55

00:37:24.700 were fighting for. The two dots drawing a line from Obergefell to naked men riding their bicycles

00:37:34.980 downtown New York in front of children, there's barely even a line there. Those two dots are

00:37:39.520 basically right on top of each other. And the moment that moms especially, I think it's some

00:37:44.900 level. A lot of dads always kind of knew that the dads were like, no, that's gay. Nah, we don't want 0.74

00:37:50.440 to do the gay thing. But the moms are like, well, but the gays, you know, need love too. And, um, 0.97

00:37:55.180 but then when they realize, oh, but they're destroying our children, no, nevermind. And

00:38:00.300 all of a sudden the empathy dried up real fast and, uh, rainbow fatigue, um, has become real.

00:38:06.120 And I, I hope my prayer is that each year that goes by, um, that we'll see, uh, less and less

00:38:13.420 tolerance, that we would be able to end love for our families first, our natural affections,

00:38:20.680 love for biblical marriage, our spouse, our children, love for Christians who are persecuted

00:38:28.000 by unjust laws, but then also love for those who are struggling with same-sex attraction, 0.62

00:38:36.800 which I do believe is a sin, love for them even, that we would usher back in the grace of shame, 0.70

00:38:42.520 uh, that, that at the end of the day, it's not weather, but which, uh, something is going to

00:38:46.640 be in the closet. It's either going to be Christian children hiding in the closet. 0.95

00:38:51.780 Um, so that they're not indoctrinated by the state, um, or it's going to be the homosexual 1.00

00:38:57.280 man hiding in the closet. Um, so I'm not advocating that we need to go and search any closets. 0.73

00:39:03.080 That's not my position. Um, my position though, is that, uh, if the naked men are in the streets

00:39:09.020 of New York, uh, then the children of Christians will be in the closet. I'd rather the naked men 1.00

00:39:14.840 be in the closet and the children be able to go, um, to school. So what do you think?

00:39:19.820 Yeah. One of the things that, um, is connected to all this that, um, our, our friend, uh, Jeff

00:39:26.220 Schaefer, he's the, um, um, as a former ADF lawyer, um, is now, um, at new St. Andrews college here in

00:39:33.980 Moscow, running the Hale Institute, H-A-L-E, which is a law and policy institute kind of

00:39:41.440 connected now to New St. Andrews College, providing lectures and electives for students

00:39:47.980 in the community to understand how our country has established the history of English common

00:39:56.440 law and how to get involved again in the public square.

00:40:00.800 But one of the things that he's done in several places, writing and speaking, that has been incredibly helpful to me is him explaining, particularly through judicial precedence, what Obergefell means, which I think it's important, actually, to say exactly what you just said a minute ago, which is that two dudes getting married means dudes naked, gyrating in front of little kids,

00:40:29.780 coming into your school and trying to get to corrupt your little kids. It's really important

00:40:35.380 to say that, because it's absolutely true. But part of what's always going on is you've got,

00:40:43.900 you know, Proverbs says, as a man thinks, so is he. We're always incarnating what we believe.

00:40:50.560 Our theology and our philosophy, our cosmology, all these things are always coming out in what

00:40:56.120 we do and what we what we what we say. And, and part of what he's pointed out, Jeff Schafer's

00:41:01.880 pointed out is that with Obergefell, but it was beginning prior to that, in some of the Roe versus

00:41:08.500 Wade and Casey decisions, and so forth. One of the things that the Supreme Court has been slowly,

00:41:15.380 but surely, you know, speaking of frogs getting boiled, what what the Supreme Court has been

00:41:21.020 slowly but surely doing in various landmark decisions is um is separating um the natural

00:41:28.580 gift of children from marriage and right and the thing that um we we have missed in this so it i

00:41:36.960 think it actually would go back as far as um jeff would start with um some of the early rulings um

00:41:43.400 on on birth control for example in the supreme court um but then um and then working their way

00:41:48.980 up. And the point is primarily about if marriage is not defined as that natural union between a

00:41:59.780 man and a woman, which ordinarily results in them bearing children, if that is not what marriage is,

00:42:07.520 then you end up with children appearing and there's no legal accounting for them.

00:42:14.720 right where do children come from now most normal red-blooded americans i can tell you where kids 1.00

00:42:21.300 come from and but but if if two dudes shocking up if two women uh getting together is a marriage

00:42:28.460 then the ability to bear children isn't no longer legally entailed in that in that covenant well

00:42:36.500 now then who then will tell us now now add to this you know people like uh um you know the

00:42:44.040 our, our friends, uh, our so-called, um, conservative friends that, um, just the two

00:42:48.960 dudes that just got married and bought a, what's his name? I forgot already. Um, yeah,

00:42:55.720 Dave Rubin, uh, you know, Dave Rubin and his so-called, um, husband and they, you know,

00:43:01.380 went through a catalog and purchased eggs from some, uh, women or women, and then rented some

00:43:08.380 other woman's womb and have purchased breast milk from other women and, you know, all this stuff.

00:43:14.040 But, um, legally who is going to tell us, um, who that, those, that child, those children,

00:43:22.360 I remember how many there are, who they belong to. Well, the state is going to tell you which

00:43:29.340 children belong to which parents, which means that what you have done by this redefinition

00:43:35.780 of marriage is you have now made the state, the Lord of the family. You've made the state, 0.52

00:43:42.240 the lord of children the masters of children the real all all children now at least judicially 0.99

00:43:48.140 speaking are bastards all children the the supreme court is officially agnostic the the supreme court 0.98

00:43:57.420 is officially judicially says we don't know where kids come from all children are child are fatherless 1.00

00:44:02.780 all children are bastards illegitimate according to the supreme court because we don't know 0.93

00:44:08.380 judicially where children come from anymore um and that means then that since we don't know where 0.99

00:44:15.420 they came from the supreme court now and the and our state is the one that isn't has has taken upon

00:44:20.640 themselves the right and the authority to say who they belong to um and this is why then you

00:44:27.100 the um you know that i think um you end up though in that place where well why can't we um you know

00:44:35.080 like california's done you know if a young young child thinks they need to transition and their

00:44:39.180 parents won't let them and uh then the state says well we know what's best um for the children um

00:44:46.600 even even our our horrible divorce laws playing into all of this uh because um when now because

00:44:53.520 we don't have biblical standards for divorce and remarriage and custody and so forth um over and

00:44:58.720 over again of course courts rule um and one of the standards that the courts rule is what's in the

00:45:04.080 best interest of the children well the best interest of the children is being decided by

00:45:10.380 the state um and um and if that that means that they think that um you know you've been spanking

00:45:17.440 your children too much they think that you're not letting your little girl become a boy um you're

00:45:22.680 not letting your little boy become a girl whatever uh well in the bet you know they can rule in the

00:45:26.960 best interest of the children and take your children um and put them where they think um is

00:45:32.240 best suited anyways that's all connected um and it's um it is um i think um i think the fact that

00:45:41.080 roe versus wade got overturned recently is a massive win not just in terms of overturning

00:45:47.140 that precedent um allowing states uh the ability to begin protecting the unborn but it's also

00:45:52.700 overturning that whole complex of precedents um one of the worst things that roe versus wade said

00:46:00.060 was not merely that it's okay to murder babies.

00:46:02.160 Of course, that's horrible.

00:46:03.800 But the other horrible thing that Roe versus Wade said

00:46:06.940 was that there is no father

00:46:09.160 who has an interest in this decision.

00:46:11.560 Right.

00:46:11.960 Roe versus Wade said this is a decision

00:46:13.480 between a woman and her doctor.

00:46:15.580 Roe versus Wade effectively said 1.00

00:46:18.160 all children are bastards. 1.00

00:46:20.660 Right. 1.00

00:46:21.260 No child has a father

00:46:22.640 as far as Roe versus Wade is concerned. 1.00

00:46:24.400 So that's another good thing

00:46:26.020 that came out of the reversal of Roe versus Wade,

00:46:28.180 the casting down of Roe versus Wade.

00:46:30.060 And we need to continue to overturn that precedent. And again, I think the momentum is promising. Conservatives just have a really bad habit of winning a small victory and then hoping that the liberals will leave us alone.

00:46:46.700 But this is like being in Canaan. If you don't drive out all of the pagans, it's going to come back and haunt you. And so we really have to be on the offensive. We can't rest until every knee bows and every tongue confesses.

00:47:05.540 Right. Well, if a 50 year precedent can be overturned by the grace of God with the, um, the court that we currently have, then I think a 10 year precedent, um, certainly could. So, you know, when, when you've got a, when you've got a line of heinous criminals that all need to be executed, but only one guillotine, uh, somebody has got to be last in line.

00:47:28.260 And so, um, that's my hope is that, uh, you know, a burger film, um, will be overruled

00:47:34.140 as well.

00:47:34.720 And I feel, I feel like, I don't know, I'm not a betting man, but if I was, um, I feel

00:47:40.680 like, I feel like within, you know, a few years, it's quite possible that a burger film

00:47:45.980 is, uh, overturned.

00:47:47.760 It would be glorious.

00:47:49.160 Particularly.

00:47:49.660 I think one of the things that we still haven't done, which we've got to figure part of the

00:47:53.580 system that we have been given in the American system is checks and balances. But some of that

00:47:59.440 checks and balances is between the states and the federal government. And that's one of the

00:48:04.420 balances that really needs to be recovered. And so I'd love to see, you know, states doing this

00:48:10.600 with abortion law. Of course, now that Roe versus Wade is gone, I mean, we should, Lord willing,

00:48:15.480 be able to just outlaw abortion completely in our state by state. But we should be doing the same 1.00

00:48:20.580 thing with marriage. We need to have conservative Christian states with backbone saying, we don't 0.99

00:48:29.000 care what you said about Obergefell Supreme Court. We serve the living God. He created the heavens

00:48:34.540 and the earth. He made male and female marriages between one man and one woman. And no, we will 0.98

00:48:39.440 not issue marriage licenses to homosexual couples. Right. Yeah. And the same way that each state 1.00

00:48:45.440 should have always ignored Roe. Exactly. They, they also need to ignore a Bergefell and, uh,

00:48:51.480 yeah, I, I completely agree. And even, you know, even Dobbs, I'm not sure what your take on this 0.92

00:48:56.900 would be, but I have some, you know, I'm grateful. Um, but I have, you know, some problem with that

00:49:02.320 in the sense that I feel like it's, it still says, um, that, um, that a state has the right

00:49:09.580 to murder babies, which is still, um, I think a wicked law that, uh, that it should go further

00:49:15.960 and say, uh, no, no, nobody has a right to murder any babies. Right. The only just law that I can

00:49:21.280 think of is the law that says no one can murder any baby at any time. That's, you know, that's

00:49:28.180 the law that I want. But, uh, but Dobbs is a vast improvement from Roe and I'm grateful for that.

00:49:33.180 And, uh, I'm hoping that each state, uh, really States could have done it all along. And, um,

00:49:38.140 but it's still a mercy of the Lord to, uh, even if it was just an excuse, it's a mercy of the Lord

00:49:44.640 to remove the excuse from each of these States, even though they, they never had to bow the knee

00:49:49.640 to row. Uh, well now they can't pretend that row is, you know, that, because that was the line

00:49:54.380 was a, well, our hands are tied and, you know, I'm a conservative so-and-so, and I really want

00:49:59.260 to save kids. I really do, you know, but, uh, it's the law of the land and it never was actually

00:50:05.180 the law of the land and and now you know we don't have to do that little dance and we can go straight

00:50:09.320 to and say all right are you going to serve god or not yeah yes the the one of the heresies that

00:50:14.900 has gotten into the you know into the the bloodstream of america actually early on is the

00:50:19.500 one of judicial supremacy and so we we don't originally the supreme court was to interpret

00:50:24.780 the law but the supreme court was was not the highest um power in the land that we have three

00:50:30.820 bodies of government and three branches, and they were to balance one another out.

00:50:38.120 The states were also to be another balancing power. And when it comes to moral issues like

00:50:45.640 life, you're absolutely right. I think this is why Clarence Thomas didn't write

00:50:48.820 the majority opinion. He, as the senior member of the court, he had, he, we know that since he

00:50:55.880 didn't write it he declined to write it and and i believe the reason why he declined to write it

00:51:01.560 is because he knew that his version uh the other was was going to be too was going to burn the

00:51:06.700 whole thing to the ground um right um and so he he i think strategically knew alito can write

00:51:13.260 um a strong one that most of us can sign off on and and at least strike row down uh but you're

00:51:19.800 absolutely right uh the the godly um decision would have been uh to recognize that our constitution

00:51:27.740 insofar as it recognizes the right to life right and it does um it does then where does that life

00:51:36.060 come from it comes from the living god it comes from the creator god and it begins at conception

00:51:40.300 and no one has the right to take a life unless god has given express permission to do so

00:51:45.940 And so, yes, the right for little babies to live without being attacked in their mother's wombs is something that the framers of our Constitution recognized, and it has been recognized in English Christian common law for centuries, which is rooted in biblical law itself.

00:52:07.000 So we need to get to that point. But at the very least for right now, grateful for the reprieve. And yeah, no more excuses for so-called pro-life politicians and pro-life states. We need to end all abortion in our states.

00:52:25.540 But again, same thing with regard to marriage. If you really want your children to belong to you, then you have to insist that your state only recognized marriage as what God created it to be. That's part of the sovereignty of the government of the family. 0.75

00:52:43.700 And I know you spend a lot of time talking about this too, Joel, but the governments of church and family are other parts of the checks and balances in our system.

00:52:53.600 But the sovereignty of the family government depends upon, in a great degree, on the fact that when a man and a woman come together under God, exchange vows with witnesses, and are united sexually, that's where God gives children.

00:53:14.060 The power of procreation is central to the authority that we have and responsibility that we have for our children.

00:53:22.820 Uh, but if you, if you divorce those things, um, someone's going to come in and say who,

00:53:27.800 which kids belong to which people.

00:53:30.240 Um, and that person then becomes the Lord of that institution.

00:53:34.200 Um, so, yep.

00:53:36.200 Yep.

00:53:36.640 You're absolutely right.

00:53:37.500 Well, I think, um, by God's grace, a burger fell, uh, can fall row fell.

00:53:42.180 And in addition to that, uh, this last summer we had, not only do we have rainbow fatigue,

00:53:47.000 which was encouraging, but we also had affirmative action, uh, fell and, um, Clarence Thomas 0.91

00:53:52.400 became the um the surprising hero of white boy summer no one no one would have seen it coming

00:53:58.660 i saw some of the memes going around it was like pictures of uh the my my ideal supreme court and

00:54:07.380 it was like just clarence thomas clarence thomas you know like pictures it's it's hilarious

00:54:12.680 especially for those who you know say well you know conservative christians they just want you

00:54:18.740 know, a white America and, uh, you gave an opportunity for a lot of conservative Christians

00:54:23.820 to say, Hey, our favorite guy is a Clarence Thomas. We like that guy. So anyways, I'm,

00:54:29.320 I'm encouraged by what the Lord's doing and I think he can do a lot more. Uh, any, any final

00:54:33.300 thoughts for today? No, I just think, I think it's a, it's a, um, exciting time to be alive.

00:54:38.500 I mean, I think, I think, um, often it's easy for Christians to lose hope, um, to lose heart,

00:54:45.000 to feel like we're only on the run, we're only being defeated.

00:54:50.240 And I think we really need to look at, number one, back to Tucker's point,

00:54:56.220 there's bigger pieces, bigger things going on here.

00:54:59.380 We're responsible.

00:55:00.540 We need to make faithful choices.

00:55:02.620 But we are not in charge. 0.85

00:55:04.900 But thank God also the wicked women and men in this land,

00:55:08.180 they're not in charge either.

00:55:09.920 Our God is in charge.

00:55:11.960 The Lord Jesus Christ is king.

00:55:13.980 He is Lord.

00:55:15.000 Um, and he is, um, he is working all things together for good.

00:55:20.260 Um, and then if, you know, if we live in a moment where there are, um, a lot of, um,

00:55:25.160 things that need to fight, be fought, if there are a lot of challenges, um, we ought to praise

00:55:29.760 God.

00:55:30.280 Uh, we ought to thank God for the moment that we live in.

00:55:32.620 Um, it's not in our hands.

00:55:34.220 We serve the King.

00:55:35.380 He knows what he's doing and in his sovereignty, uh, we get the gift of being born in this

00:55:40.820 moment.

00:55:41.220 We get to live in these days.

00:55:42.540 we get to live in these years, and we get to fight these dragons. And so we ought to be

00:55:49.060 really full of joy, gratitude, back to, you know, again, the humility of God is sovereign. He has

00:55:55.480 allowed these particular enemies to arise. He's allowed these particular difficulties to be in

00:56:02.660 our land. And he's done this, why? Well, for his glory and for our good. And so I think there's

00:56:10.880 a great cause for us to be, um, uh, rejuvenated, uh, full of joy, full of humility, uh, trusting

00:56:17.060 him because, um, he's, he's Lord, he's King. He knows what he's doing. Amen. It was either you

00:56:23.160 or it might've been, uh, Wilson, which that's always a safe bet. Um, Doug Wilson saying something,

00:56:28.800 but, um, it was just, you know, the, the sentiment of, you know, like, well, I feel bad for my

00:56:33.640 children as a parent. I'm concerned. I struggle at times, you know, that the word tells me not

00:56:38.460 to be anxious for anything, but I'm, I'm struggling with the temptation to worry about my kids and the

00:56:42.660 world that they're entering. Um, and all that, um, we can sympathize with that, but at the same time,

00:56:48.060 like what you said about slaying dragons, um, it seems, uh, silly that we would raise our children

00:56:54.300 to, uh, to be dragon slayers, uh, in a world where there are no dragons. Um, we, you know,

00:57:00.000 we're, we're raising our kids, um, to slay dragons precisely for the point of slaying these dragons. 0.72

00:57:05.460 And, and on that point, the, the thing that I thought of is, um, you'll also always have a Christian dragon slain LARPers who, uh, they don't actually want to slay the dragons of their day. They want to slay the dragons that have already been slain, um, of their fathers. 0.67

00:57:21.800 And so they'll, they'll take that dragon corpse, unbury it, um, prop it up, even maybe get like a puppet, you know, like sticks and stuff to make it look like it's still alive. And they'll hold ceremonies and plays, you know, and old productions. And someone will dress up like a knight and like, I'm going to slay the dragon of slavery.

00:57:42.000 right i mean it's like well but there's this dragon of feminism that's actually alive and

00:57:47.660 just it just ate a whole town yeah you know you don't want to deal with that one no no no this

00:57:52.800 one is like and you know so i that's that's something that i've realized is in terms of

00:57:57.500 courage um courage one of the ways that it could be defined is it's uh like killing living dragons

00:58:05.540 not not kicking the corpses of already slain dragons so everybody wants to be a dragon slayer

00:58:12.180 like i think we we all agree universally on the inherent goodness of killing dragons

00:58:16.680 the question is are we going to kill the dragons of our day and recognize that god providentially

00:58:21.340 placed them here and now and that he's raising up you know knights for such a time as this and

00:58:26.480 equipping us to uh to do the task or are we going to pretend um to you know to to just uh to reenact

00:58:34.160 the the dragon slains of the past so right so so so you asked you started this whole conversation

00:58:39.940 with a bible question so i have a bible question for you okay in numbers 21 were they dragons

00:58:45.900 that were biting the people of israel right i got you um i don't know i i think you could

00:58:54.020 probably render it that way these serpents but i don't think it's a coincidence that we have on

00:59:00.080 the side of our you know ambulances a snake looks like a snake and that comes historically from

00:59:07.340 certain images of uh so i don't know it seems like the the actual picture that worked its way

00:59:14.080 down was a snake and not a dragon obviously that's kind of it's kind of a boring interpretation

00:59:18.560 joel yeah it is boring it is i do believe in dragons i just don't know if they were

00:59:23.620 in the wilderness at that time but i certainly believe in dragons in fact i think that

00:59:28.480 there may still be some living dragons and not just the komodo dragon but like some sea dragons

00:59:33.800 we we've only explored like five percent of the ocean and we think we know everything

00:59:38.120 we don't know everything right so you think it was you think it was dragons they had feet

00:59:43.000 yeah the word in numbers 21 is seraph and a seraph is a dragon the the word seraph in hebrew means

00:59:51.140 to burn with fire and uh and so i think there were fire breathing dragons at least they might

00:59:56.580 have been small flying dragons and maybe even very serpentine but um but they also um they're

01:00:04.540 some kind of dragon i think so i'll go with it all right cool all right thanks for coming on

01:00:09.960 toby appreciate it you bet thanks for having me joel

The NXR Podcast - August 01, 2023

THEOLOGY APPLIED - Tucker Carlson, The Rise Of The American Caesar, & The Government’s Plan To Take Our Kids w Toby Sumpter

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