The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Tyranny & Fear ｜ How Thoughtless Compliance Is Not Loving Your Neighbor

00:00:00 Hi, this is Pastor Joel Webbin with Right Response Ministries, and you're listening to another episode of Theology Applying.

00:00:06 In this episode, I was privileged to have as a special guest, Jeff Childers.

00:00:10 Jeff Childers is a practicing lawyer and a devoted follower of Jesus Christ,

00:00:15 who has done a lot of work regarding the legality of mandated Vs on the private sector,

00:00:21 as well now as school-aged children in public schools and soon-to-be private schools in the state of California.

00:00:29 you're in for a real treat. That said, for anybody who is willing to support Right Response Ministries

00:00:35 and give a donation of any amount, you can do so by going to rightresponseministries.com. Again,

00:00:41 that's rightresponseministries.com. We are grateful for your prayers, grateful for your encouragement,

00:00:46 and we need your financial support if you're able to do so. If not, would you please subscribe to

00:00:53 our YouTube channel and share our content with your family and friends? That's another way to

00:00:57 support us if you're not in a position to do so financially. And we are grateful for all the

00:01:03 support that we get. That said, I want to mention to you a ministry called Carpe Fide. Carpe Fide,

00:01:09 not Carpe Diem, but Carpe Fide. Seize the faith. This is one of their shirts. They were recently

00:01:15 at the G3 conference. And so maybe some of you who went to that conference may have seen them.

00:01:20 This is Burn the Ships. It's from Cortez when he landed in Latin America. It's the legendary

00:01:25 phrase that he uttered to his crew saying burn the ships symbolizing we're not going back there

00:01:32 is no retreat we will only advance so too the people of christ need to have that mindset there

00:01:38 is no retreat there is no going back we are pushing forward by the grace of god and the

00:01:43 strength and courage he provides here's one more shirt from carpe fide that's the back of the shirt

00:01:49 carpe fide the front of the shirt says this come and take it come and take it this is the iconic

00:01:57 phrase from king leonidas as well as the texas fortress that was being defended except they've

00:02:03 replaced the picture of a cannon with the picture of a pulpit this needs to be the cry of pastors

00:02:10 and christians when it comes to a tyrannical government and everyone who purchases one of

00:02:16 these come and take it shirts from carpe fide a portion of the proceeds is going actually to

00:02:21 pastor james coates in alberta canada who said to his tyrannical government there i'm not handing

00:02:28 over the church i'm not handing over the pulpit i'm not handing over the preaching of god's word

00:02:33 if you want it then you're going to have to come and take it because i'm going to preach god's

00:02:38 word hell or high water i'm preaching christ and him crucified so everybody who buys one of those

00:02:44 shirts, the Come and Take It shirts from Carpe Fide will be giving and supporting Pastor James

00:02:50 Coates and his church in Alberta, Canada. All right, without further ado, I hope you enjoy

00:02:55 today's episode of Theology Applied. Applying God's word to every aspect of life. This is Theology

00:03:03 Applied. All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied. As I already said,

00:03:12 I am privileged to have as a special guest Jeff Childers. He's a practicing lawyer. He's also a

00:03:18 devoted follower of Christ, and I am very pleased to have you on the show. Welcome, Jeff. Would you

00:03:22 take a moment and just introduce yourself to our listeners? Thanks, Pastor. I'm Jeff Childers. As

00:03:28 you said, I have a small commercial litigation practice in Gainesville, Florida. We are located

00:03:35 in a very traditionally Democrat blue area, which is a little unusual for Florida, or at least

00:03:42 how people outside of Florida think of it. About 18 months ago, when the first mask mandates were

00:03:49 passed, I started, I sued the county over that mask mandate. And as far as I know, I have the

00:03:58 only appellate decision in the entire country, finding that mandatory masking is presumptively

00:04:05 unconstitutional. And as a result of that, I've gotten a lot of attention and more opportunities.

00:04:13 And so we've been filing more cases. And two weeks ago, again, to my knowledge, I have the only

00:04:21 decision that entered a broad injunction against the city's vaccine mandate for its employees.

00:04:30 So we were able to shut that down. And, you know, again, for whatever reason, I don't think anybody else in the country has done it yet.

00:04:40 But we've solved that problem for government employers in Florida.

00:04:45 And I believe that that template will work in most other states.

00:04:51 So people need to look into it. We're now aiming at private employers.

00:04:57 So probably within the next week or two, we'll be filing an emergency case against a private hospital over in Pensacola.

00:05:07 Wow. Praise God for that.

00:05:09 Well, I feel like if you were successful in the government front of federal or government employees, then the private sector should be easier.

00:05:21 Am I right in my thinking with that?

00:05:22 It's exactly opposite from that.

00:05:24 Really? Could you explain why?

00:05:27 I can. So the government actors are all subject to constitutional limitations, right?

00:05:35 Our Constitution and the Constitution of each state is a limitation on government.

00:05:42 With a couple of notable exceptions, like the 13th and 14th Amendments that restrain people from discriminating based on race, everything else in the Constitution is a restriction on government.

00:05:54 So, you know, all of those things, the First Amendment, the right to privacy and all that stuff, it doesn't apply to private actors.

00:06:03 So we need different theories for private companies than we can use against the government.

00:06:09 We have a lot more tools for government employers.

00:06:11 I think I was thinking primarily of the employees in the private sector being non-governmental employees and having certain privileges and rights.

00:06:21 but I wasn't thinking of the employers,

00:06:23 the corporations themselves being free market corporations

00:06:26 that have more freedom.

00:06:29 So that makes sense.

00:06:31 Well, so we were talking a little bit

00:06:33 before we started recording

00:06:35 and you said that for you,

00:06:36 like pretty much everybody else in the country

00:06:39 and in the world,

00:06:40 the Lord shook a lot of things up 18 months ago with COVID

00:06:43 and changed, it seems like your focus in your career

00:06:46 and your practice, vocation, all those things.

00:06:48 But even in the church world, you said that your wife and you, you guys have moved to another church.

00:06:56 Can you tell us a little bit about that?

00:06:59 Yeah, so, and I don't know how far back to start, but I know you know this, but I don't know how many of your viewers know.

00:07:09 But I wrote an article called What the Church Needs to Know About COVID-19, and it went viral.

00:07:15 I was deplatformed from, you know, two of my platforms that I was on because of that article.

00:07:21 Now I've been writing about COVID every single day in my daily blog for a year and a half and

00:07:27 never was deplatformed. It was only when I wrote that article about the church that I got deplatformed

00:07:34 and that, that article, notwithstanding getting thrown off of a couple of platforms, that's over

00:07:40 a million views on that now. Wow. And it's sort of, it was given to me and maybe I should, you

00:07:51 know, if we have time, I can tell you how that came to be because I think that's helpful sort

00:07:58 of in understanding the big picture. Yeah, go ahead. So I went to a small conservative leadership

00:08:08 meeting in central Florida a few months ago and there were only about 40 people there and

00:08:14 you know the CEO of America's Frontline Doctors was there and the CEO of Project Veritas was there

00:08:22 and you know somehow I got an invitation. Several of us were what they called opinion makers right

00:08:31 and I guess my daily blog somehow you know qualified me. It was very providential

00:08:36 and there was a pastor there uh who was introduced as you know and each of us had to stand up and

00:08:46 you know give our little bio and and introduce ourselves to the group and but somebody introduced

00:08:52 each person and this pastor was introduced as a pastor with guts and something about that phrase

00:08:59 really grabbed me right and I was like wow that's that's interesting so that's what I wrote down in

00:09:05 my notes. I wrote pastors with guts and I circled it and put a star next to it. And when I got back

00:09:11 to Gainesville that next Monday, one of my friends who's a retired pastor was reacting to something

00:09:23 totally separate, not connected at all that I'd written in my blog. And he texted me, you know,

00:09:30 Jeff, what should we do about this? And, um, you know, I, I need another project like a hole in

00:09:36 the head. Right. So I texted him back and, and for some reason, right. I was so convicted by that, 0.90

00:09:42 that little phrase, I texted him back and I said, we need more pastors with guts.

00:09:49 And so of course he texted me right back and said, well, what should we do about that?

00:09:54 Yeah. I said, well, why don't you make a list of all the pastors with guts that, you know,

00:09:58 and let's see what we have to work with. And a couple of days went by and I didn't hear anything

00:10:03 about it. And I had sort of forgotten about it. And then I get a text from him and he says, Hey,

00:10:08 what are you doing next Thursday? And, you know, I could, I had some things on the calendar,

00:10:12 but I could move them around. And I said, well, I could, I could get loose, but what do you need?

00:10:16 And he said, well, I'd like you to come and talk to a group of directors of the North Central

00:10:21 Florida Baptist Association that together supervise about 450 churches. And I was like,

00:10:30 okay, and something, you know, that's not something I normally do, right? I'm the lawyer.

00:10:36 But something convicted me in that moment. And so I agreed to do it. Well, fast forward to the

00:10:44 next week. I hadn't had any time to get prepared. And it was the Wednesday night before the Thursday

00:10:52 meeting where I was supposed to speak. And it was nine o'clock. And I usually I get up at 430 in

00:10:59 the morning. So I usually try to get to bed before 10. And it was already nine. So I sat down to just

00:11:04 write, you know, try to write a little outline of what I might say to these, these pastors who

00:11:10 supervise all these churches. And instead, what happened was I opened up PowerPoint

00:11:17 and 47 slides came out, one after another, fully formed, just perfect. I haven't given that talk

00:11:29 many times now, and I've never really changed anything except updating some of the data.

00:11:33 and it was just a message that was delivered to me right in that moment

00:11:40 so I went out and I gave the the talk and it was very similar it's a little bit longer format with

00:11:49 more detail than what's in the article but it was more or less the the contents of that article and

00:11:54 I totally convicted all those guys I really completely changed the way that they were

00:12:01 looking at the pandemic and how they were ministering to folks and how they were leading

00:12:06 their pastors that they supervised and everything. So I wound up giving that talk a few more times

00:12:15 to successively larger groups of pastors. And I got the same response every time.

00:12:21 You know, I just really, and as an attorney, as a litigating attorney, you know, I talk to juries,

00:12:29 I talk to judges, right? I'm good at persuasive public presentations, right? But it was the

00:12:38 material. There's just no arguing with it, right? And it's scripturally based. And, you know,

00:12:45 there's not, I've had, you know, a few questions at the end, like one pastor asked me, he's like,

00:12:52 well, Jeff, you know, I only get them for a couple of hours on Sunday. And then they're back out in

00:12:58 the world and they're watching cnn and they're you know they're getting all this programming

00:13:02 and uh you know i just don't have any way to influence that and i said pastor all right i'm

00:13:09 going to blow your mind okay said what i'm suggesting to you is that if you will get out

00:13:18 of the church and if you will go down to the school board and you will deliver a fiery three

00:13:25 minute sermon to those school board members. Somebody is going to videotape it on their phone

00:13:31 and they're going to put it on YouTube and you're going to get a million views.

00:13:36 I said, pastor, there's, you have never had an opportunity like this in your life in history

00:13:41 ever, right? But you've got to get out there. You've got to go where you're needed. You've got

00:13:49 take the gospel, put it in a suitcase and take it down to the school board. Right. So those are

00:13:57 those are the kinds of questions that I would get in the answers. I had one pastor who's also

00:14:04 from Texas who called me up and he said, Jeff, you know, and he had read my article and everything

00:14:10 and he was convicted by it. But again, still not quite, you know, getting it. And he called me up

00:14:15 And he said, Jeff, I'm getting all these, you know, I did a YouTube, I was, you know, I was encouraged by your, your article.

00:14:24 So I did this YouTube about religious exemptions.

00:14:26 And now I'm getting calls from all over the country of people, random people that I've never met.

00:14:32 And I don't know. And they want me to write them a letter, a religious exemption letter.

00:14:36 Right. And he said, I'm really conflicted because on the one hand, I want to help them.

00:14:42 But on the other hand, I don't know them and I don't really, I don't know that I can honestly attest that they have a sincerely held religious belief about this.

00:14:52 And so I said, pastor, you're, you're still, you're doing good, but you're still not getting it right.

00:14:58 I said, pastor, you're the bronze serpent.

00:15:05 You're being held up for people to look at and be healed.

00:15:12 So when they call you up, it's not about you trying to intuit whether they're sincerely held.

00:15:17 You need to convert them on the phone.

00:15:20 You tell them, hey, listen, I'd be happy to write you that letter. 0.61

00:15:24 But first, we're going to have to do this sinner's prayer, right?

00:15:27 And I'm going to have to give you a little theology lesson here.

00:15:30 And you're going to have to do the steps with me so that I can honestly say that you have a sincerely held religious belief.

00:15:39 And he was like, wow.

00:15:42 It's like, yeah, you're right.

00:15:43 I never thought of it like that.

00:15:44 I said, you've got these opportunities.

00:15:46 I said, Pastor, they're coming to you.

00:15:49 They're coming to you, right?

00:15:51 When was the last time that happened, that you had this many people rushing to you to be converted to Christ?

00:15:59 Right?

00:16:02 Well, real quick, let's get into the article a little bit.

00:16:08 First, could you let our listeners know, because some of them are going to be like, what's this article?

00:16:12 I want to read it.

00:16:13 I read it, and that's why I reached out to you and wanted to have you on the show,

00:16:16 because I thought it was incredibly well written, and not just the theology behind it,

00:16:20 the biblical imperatives, how we should be thinking as Christians,

00:16:25 but you had so much substance, and it was written by a lawyer.

00:16:30 You could tell.

00:16:32 You were substantiating your claims, providing biblical persuasion,

00:16:36 but, but then also evidence for, um, why these things are, it's not just business as usual.

00:16:42 It's not just your typical vaccine. And, and so, so first where can, where can people go and find

00:16:48 this article? So, um, they would go to my blog's website, which is www.coffeeandcovid.com.

00:16:59 And it's a daily, uh, summary of news that I write. And, um, you think people are welcome to,

00:17:05 to look at old blog posts and see if they like it. And if they do, they can sign up,

00:17:10 but there's a tab on there called faith in COVID. And if they click on faith in COVID,

00:17:16 then that'll take them to a page where they can see my article again, which is called what the

00:17:21 church needs to know about COVID-19 and what to do about it. Right. So what, what does the church

00:17:29 need to know about COVID-19? I have here written as a question that I wanted to ask you, you know,

00:17:35 because part of what you got at you know and part of what some other guys are you know project

00:17:40 veritas and some people are starting to slowly but surely blow the lid off of some of these

00:17:45 things and so one of my questions would be this if there are safe and effective treatments for

00:17:50 covid and if covid is not as dangerous as many people believe it is what's the incentive then

00:17:56 for the government the medical establishment mainstream media to continue to push the jab

00:18:02 instead of taking the infamous horse tranquilizer pill

00:18:08 as they like to present it.

00:18:11 What is the incentive?

00:18:13 Why is the push?

00:18:15 If there are these other avenues,

00:18:17 what do you think the incentive is?

00:18:19 What's behind this whole thing?

00:18:21 I would add two more to your list.

00:18:23 I would say we also know now that the COVID injections

00:18:29 don't prevent the spread of COVID.

00:18:31 That's right.

00:18:32 and that was exactly opposite to what they told us through may of this year that's right

00:18:40 this year fauci was out there saying you won't get covid if you take the injection

00:18:44 right and it was your duty your duty to your neighbor and then pastors

00:18:50 i call them even jellyfish pastors you know the ones with no spine um they immediately picked up

00:18:58 that that talking point from fauci and it was love your neighbor love your neighbor but now we know

00:19:03 that it's not just that you can get the virus and the cdc has said this and people are getting taken

00:19:07 off of youtube this episode might be taken down from youtube for repeating uh what the director

00:19:13 of the cdc has said you know and so but the it is a fact that that you can get covid if you're taking

00:19:20 or if you've had the vaccine you can still get covid and not only that but you can transmit so

00:19:25 you can contract and you can transmit which means the whole idea of loving your neighbor right you're

00:19:30 not just getting the vaccine for self-preservation which that's always the way we thought about

00:19:33 vaccines is primarily it's self-preservation so that i don't get polio so that i don't get

00:19:37 smallpox but but it's not only self-preservation but the big pushing point from fauci and from

00:19:43 joe biden you know it's your american duty you know we need everybody to participate and pastors

00:19:48 pick up that talking point and wrap some christianese around it with loving your neighbor

00:19:52 But the reality is not only can you contract the virus still if you've had the vaccine, but you can also transmit it to others.

00:20:00 And so all of a sudden, I mean, if we're thinking about it logically, that entire talking point I feel like has disappeared.

00:20:07 I know you were speaking, but I wanted to throw that out there.

00:20:10 What do you think about that?

00:20:11 Yeah.

00:20:11 And so I think that undermines one of the two prongs supporting the entire rationale for the injections.

00:20:20 And the second prong, which has also been undermined, is the prong that says we need to use the injections to get to herd immunity.

00:20:30 Because now we know we cannot get to herd immunity with these drugs.

00:20:36 They will not do it.

00:20:38 Explain that.

00:20:38 How do we know that?

00:20:39 Explain that, please.

00:20:41 Well, for one thing, the reason that you just mentioned, the fact that you can still get and transmit the disease,

00:20:49 is one reason we can't get to herd immunity with the drugs right um with the polio vaccine

00:20:58 and the smallpox vaccine those are what are called sterilizing vaccines okay which means

00:21:04 they create an immunity in you you become sterile and visible to the virus the virus just goes right

00:21:12 by you it doesn't even see you anymore because you've been sterilized to it and that's why the

00:21:18 That's why you only take the measles vaccine when you're a kid.

00:21:21 You only need it once, right?

00:21:23 It lasts your whole life.

00:21:25 You become sterilized.

00:21:27 Well, other vaccines are called leaky, leaky vaccines.

00:21:32 The flu vaccine is a good example of a leaky vaccine.

00:21:35 It does not give you immunity to the flu, right?

00:21:38 Every year, you need to take a new one.

00:21:41 And it may not even work that well.

00:21:43 It might only reduce the symptoms a little bit.

00:21:46 It might not do anything.

00:21:48 OK, so the problem, there's a big problem with leaky vaccines.

00:21:55 Leaky vaccines are like antibiotics that don't work super well.

00:22:00 So if an antibiotic doesn't work really well, it's going to leave some bacteria in you.

00:22:05 And then what does that bacteria do?

00:22:08 It mutates.

00:22:09 It begins to evolve to get around the antibiotic.

00:22:13 And what do we get?

00:22:14 We get things called antibiotic resistant strains.

00:22:18 right? We've been hearing about this our whole lives, right? What do they tell us about taking

00:22:23 antibiotics? Don't do it unless you really need to. Why? Because it's going to create more

00:22:29 antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria, right? Viruses work exactly the same way.

00:22:37 So if you have a leaky vaccine, then what you're doing is the more you use that leaky vaccine,

00:22:45 just like overuse of antibiotics, overuse of a leaky vaccine will create more vaccine resistant

00:22:52 strains, not fewer. To get to herd immunity, you need a sterilizing vaccine like the polio vaccine

00:23:02 or the measles vaccine or the smallpox vaccine. Then you begin taking people out of the population 0.51

00:23:08 as they get vaccinated and the number of potential victims gets smaller and smaller until the virus

00:23:14 doesn't have anywhere to go and then you've got her immunity right real real quick question with

00:23:19 that for those who have natural immunity so my wife and i and our three daughters we all got

00:23:24 covid it was our christmas present uh last year we all got covid just a couple days after and you

00:23:29 know our our middle daughter it kind of surprised us because you know most kids it doesn't affect

00:23:34 them very much but our middle daughter you know she was really sick for for a couple days you

00:23:38 know, like the sickest that we've seen her, but still, you know, fine. She's healthy now. She's

00:23:43 fine. She got through it. You know, it was like a bad flu for her and me, my wife, we were fine.

00:23:47 And then our other two kids, like if we didn't have it and if we didn't see them, you know,

00:23:52 like have a drippy nose, like once we wouldn't even know that, you know, so anyways, we all got

00:23:57 it and, and we've been fine now, you know, and we've, we haven't gotten again. And I keep hearing

00:24:03 that, you know, it's anywhere from six times to 13 times more effective than the vaccine,

00:24:07 the natural immunity by having the virus my question though is um is that it does that

00:24:13 function though the same way that a leaky virus would function meaning by me having covid

00:24:18 could could i still contract it and and and have less symptoms because i've had covid before in a

00:24:27 way that would force the virus to mutate my question is those who are getting the vaccine

00:24:32 in some ways they're making it worse is what you're getting at it's it's not going to get us

00:24:36 to herd immunity, it's actually creating, it's fostering this environment to where the virus

00:24:42 is going to mutate, and there's going to be more mutations, and some may even be worse mutations.

00:24:47 But those who actually have natural immunity, are they doing the same thing to the virus,

00:24:51 causing it to mutate, like those who've received the vaccine? Or is there a difference?

00:24:56 No. The only way we're going to get through this is through natural immunity.

00:25:00 Okay. Could you explain that? Yeah. So folks who have recovered from COVID,

00:25:04 like your family has and like my family has. We had it in December too. And my kids kept getting

00:25:11 it, you know, in stages. So we wound up being in quarantine for a month. Every time another kid

00:25:18 would get it, we would have to reset the clock for two more weeks. Right. But folks who have

00:25:25 recovered, they do disappear from the potential pool of victims and they make the potential pool

00:25:32 remaining victims smaller and i read an article um just the other day and you know one of the

00:25:40 the main expert epidemiologists was saying that that the only way out of the pandemic

00:25:46 was to vaccinate people and for them then to get covid and so they can develop natural antibodies

00:25:55 right there was a project veritas video uh one of these exposés just the other day

00:26:00 where you had Pfizer scientists talking on camera.

00:26:03 They thought they were talking to a pretty girl

00:26:05 and she was recording it, right?

00:26:08 And he explained it perfectly, right?

00:26:11 He said the Pfizer vaccine only protects

00:26:14 against the spike protein,

00:26:16 which is just one tiny part of the virus.

00:26:19 Whereas your natural antibodies protect you

00:26:22 against the entire virus, spike proteins and all,

00:26:26 and the inside and the outside.

00:26:28 So your body recognizes any part of it. Whereas that these COVID injections only recognize that original wild form spike protein. And so the more that changes, the less effect those COVID injections have at all.

00:26:46 So we have a leaky vaccine that's actually creating more and worse variants, right?

00:26:52 And it's not sterilizing people.

00:26:54 So they're still passing it around.

00:26:57 But that's not all.

00:27:00 There's a whole nother big problem that like almost nobody ever talks about.

00:27:05 And it's a killer for herd immunity through animals, the animals.

00:27:10 I knew it.

00:27:13 So I read your article.

00:27:14 Well, it's the animal reservoirs, right? And what do we see? I just read, I reported in my blog today about the Smithsonian Zoo. Every one of their big cats tested positive for COVID last month. 100% of them, right?

00:27:31 Something like they tested white-tailed deer, which are in 49 states.

00:27:37 The only state you can't find a white-tailed deer in is in Alaska.

00:27:41 And so they captured, you know, these game animals and they tested them for COVID.

00:27:45 And guess what proportion of those white-tailed deer tested positive for COVID?

00:27:50 I don't know.

00:27:51 40%.

00:27:52 Wow.

00:27:54 Almost half.

00:27:56 Okay.

00:27:56 So as long as the virus can go out into the animals, it has a safe place to sit while

00:28:05 we're busy running around injecting everybody with these COVID injections.

00:28:09 So let's say that somehow we could inject every man, woman, and child on the planet

00:28:14 in one day, just get it all over with, right?

00:28:18 Joe Biden's, you know, fantasy, right?

00:28:21 99% injected.

00:28:23 well the animals would just give it right back to us because you can't vaccinate all those animals

00:28:31 and the reason you can't vaccinate the animals among other reasons is because they don't respond

00:28:35 to shaming or threats of loss of employment right right right

00:28:41 uh so herd immunity through covid injections is a myth and and i think that most experts are not

00:28:52 even arguing for that anymore. And you're you're even starting to see countries like, you know,

00:28:57 New Zealand recently said they're they've given up on COVID zero. They actually had a COVID zero

00:29:04 policy. Yeah, which was insane. Yes. And the reason they're having to give up on they don't

00:29:10 want to give up on it. But they don't have a therapy to get them to COVID zero. They can't

00:29:16 beat leaky vaccines and animal reservoirs. There's nothing they can do about that.

00:29:23 Right. Yeah. And Israel, arguably the most vaccinated nation on the planet,

00:29:31 it's, it's not, it's not ultimately stopping the virus. You may have less hospitalizations,

00:29:36 but at the end of the day, like it's, you still see massive spikes in the Delta variant and cases

00:29:42 and things like that and so it's not it seems as though the virus is not going away so the question

00:29:48 is how do we live with it in a way that would slow the virus down and and protect people from

00:29:54 those severe side effects that might end you know cause us to end up in the hospital or

00:30:00 or die you know and it sounds like like the way that you get there is by by getting the virus

00:30:09 Not by getting the jab, but by actually getting the virus. And for those who are vulnerable, we can still protect and isolate those who are incredibly vulnerable without having to bench our entire working class and completely destroy our economy.

00:30:28 But then also there are certain treatments, especially that anybody could, you know, most people could be able to use, but especially those who are vulnerable that are worried that if I got the virus, that I, you know, I might be one of the statistics that actually, you know, died from it. 0.94

00:30:45 Can you talk about some of those?

00:30:47 What are some of the treatments?

00:30:49 And why, again, I guess my question is just, again, what is the incentive?

00:30:53 why what like if if ivermectin you know for instance if if it really is helpful what benefit

00:31:01 what incentive does does joe biden and you know the democratic platform have in in suppressing

00:31:10 that news if it's true why would they why well so you're asking me to speculate about what's going

00:31:21 on inside their minds, which of course I have access to. Right. I think, you know, an easy,

00:31:28 obvious answer is that Ivermectin is currently off patent. It's available for about $3 a dose

00:31:36 and nobody's making any money from it. Right. And so the people who have their hands on the

00:31:44 levers of power right now, many of them also have financial stakes in, you know, pharmaceutical

00:31:50 companies and things like that now i'm not accusing anybody of anything i don't know

00:31:55 i have no way of knowing what what we can perceive though is it it seems irrational from the outside

00:32:03 and we also know they're not explaining why right they're you know when they call ivermectin a horse

00:32:09 dewormer that's that's insulting everybody who's listening we all know that that's the last thing

00:32:15 that it is it it just in 2015 they gave that drug which has been available since the 70s

00:32:21 in 2015 they gave it the nobel prize in medicine nobel prize right not for because of because of

00:32:28 the incredible benefit that that drug has produced for horses nobel prize right it was because of the

00:32:34 horses right they just love horses so much they're like let's give it a nobel no i'm just kidding

00:32:39 go ahead sorry yeah exactly and and I love your sarcastic sense of humor

00:32:45 and and so we can all see that nobody's nobody's being fooled by by these silly you know media 0.69

00:32:54 narratives and I don't think Joel I don't think those media narratives are for people like you

00:33:00 and me I think those are for the people who are terrified of COVID right and they need something

00:33:07 And they accept anything that the CDC says. The CDC is their source of truth, right? They call it the gold standard. And whatever the CDC says, no matter how many times it reverses itself, or, you know, the New York Times at times has had to debunk the CDC, like with the outdoor transmission thing, right?

00:33:28 The New York Times called them out on that. Right. And and NPR called them out on saying that the Delta variant was as transmissible as chickenpox.

00:33:39 It's not even close. Right. So the CDC can say all of these things that are, you know, factually inaccurate.

00:33:47 What do we what do we call people who say things that aren't true? False prophets, liars.

00:33:53 you said it i i didn't say so false witness yeah i could go on unreliable at best and but that 0.71

00:34:05 doesn't seem to bother half the population in this country no matter how many times the cdc

00:34:11 reverses direction gets caught saying something that isn't true intentionally or unintentionally

00:34:17 right if they did it unintentionally they're negligent that's not better right if you crash

00:34:24 into somebody in your car because you're not paying attention and kill them are you going to

00:34:28 walk away from it because it was an accident because you you know you just made a mistake 0.87

00:34:32 are you off the hook no of course not right and and so why is the cdc off the hook for being

00:34:39 negligent about the information that it's providing to us about the worst pandemic in

00:34:45 our lifetimes. Right. So, you know, you're, you're asking me, I think there's a bigger

00:34:52 answer to your, your question. And that is that I don't think we're really dealing with a medical

00:35:00 problem. I don't think we're dealing with a biological problem. I don't think we're dealing

00:35:05 with a scientific problem. I think what we're really dealing with is a spiritual problem.

00:35:11 i believe that there is a demonic spirit of fear that is suffocating the earth

00:35:19 and it is it is providing a strong delusion to a lot of people

00:35:26 right the people who are wearing double masks outside right now how do you explain that

00:35:35 and the politicians who are doing things that that everybody knows are irrational and don't

00:35:42 work. We know lockdowns don't work. We know lockdowns actually kill people in greater numbers

00:35:49 than COVID ever will. And yet they're still ordering lockdowns and still talking about

00:35:55 lockdowns. How is that possible? Right. It's because there is not rational thought that's

00:36:03 going on, it's a kind of possession. It's a possession by a spirit of fear. And the problem

00:36:13 is, you know, if only Joel, only we had some kind of organization, you know, some kind of maybe

00:36:20 worldwide network that was devoted to dealing with spiritual problems, you know, and we could

00:36:26 just somehow activate that organization to fight back. What if it closed down?

00:36:33 shouldn't have yes we need the church you're right we need the church i can't help but think of i i

00:36:41 think i can't remember if this was in your article jeff but hebrews 2 i believe it's verses 14 and

00:36:47 15 somewhere in there but hebrews chapter 2 where it says that speaking of christ it says that he

00:36:53 too partook of the same nature that he put on flesh and the likeness of man so that he ultimately so

00:37:01 that he could die, so that through his death, he might conquer him who has authority over death,

00:37:09 that is the devil, and free, it says, and free those who were held in lifelong slavery to the

00:37:18 fear of death. So Jesus took on flesh so that he could die, so that through his death, he could

00:37:23 conquer the one who has authority over death, the devil, and free lifelong slaves who the chains

00:37:32 that are binding them and holding them in this lifelong slavery is fear of death. And I read

00:37:39 that and I think, okay, yeah, that's a depiction of the pagan, the unbeliever, the person who does

00:37:45 not know and love Christ. But then when I'm witnessing this as a pastor in real time,

00:37:52 and I can see very little distinction

00:37:55 between believers and unbelievers

00:37:57 in terms of how afraid they are

00:37:58 and very little distinction

00:38:00 between talking heads with CNN

00:38:03 and talking heads pastors

00:38:07 who are now live streaming their churches,

00:38:11 then all of a sudden I'm just like,

00:38:13 is this even real?

00:38:16 Are we doing this or not?

00:38:19 Are we following Jesus?

00:38:20 are you know like because i thought it was for real i thought this whole jesus thing being a

00:38:25 christian you know i thought i thought this was real and it turns out i've been sorely mistaken

00:38:30 the last 18 months i've realized that you know for a lot of people it's just a game it's just

00:38:34 a religious social club they're not following jesus for real and you know that that doesn't

00:38:40 mean that some people might not be weak faith so that doesn't mean they're all false converts

00:38:44 there is such a thing as the weak convert right the smoldering wick the bruised reed

00:38:49 And Christ is tender and merciful towards them.

00:38:51 And so we don't need to just beat them all up.

00:38:53 But it is disheartening.

00:38:55 It is discouraging.

00:38:57 And we need pastors to, you don't just coddle the smoldering wick, right?

00:39:02 So you don't snuff it out, but you also don't leave it there either.

00:39:06 You blow on it and fan it into flame.

00:39:10 You know, you stir it up.

00:39:13 And yeah.

00:39:15 you remember that uh apocryphal story from the um you know uh the soviet communist era

00:39:25 and it goes like this it's uh you know a group of soldiers runs into a church

00:39:29 right that's packed for for a secret worship and they fling open the doors and they they

00:39:36 aim their guns at the congregation and they say anybody who doesn't want to be killed in two

00:39:42 minutes. You better get out. And so half the congregation runs out the door and they come in 0.93

00:39:48 and they close doors behind them and they lock the doors. And then they put their guns down and

00:39:53 go and kneel in front of the pastor and ask to pray and ask him to pray over them. And they said,

00:39:59 we just had to get all the fake Christians out of here. I've never heard that. Yeah, it's and I 0.99

00:40:08 didn't do it justice. So you'll have to look it up sometime that, you know, when somebody tells

00:40:13 the story better than me, it's even more convicting, but, um, what I've been telling

00:40:19 pastors and you, so you, you explain this to me. Okay. So when I, when I talk to the pastors,

00:40:24 I say, listen, pastors, you're my, you're my brothers. I love you. I have the greatest

00:40:29 respect for you. And you have a very difficult job. I said, but I am begging you if I have to

00:40:36 hear one more sermon about five takeaways from the book of Joshua and how to apply it to my marriage

00:40:42 when I'm looking around the church at people who are terrified they're going to lose their job

00:40:47 because they won't take this injection that they don't want or they're frantic because they're

00:40:52 sending their kids to a mask and they know it's causing their kids to grow anxiety disorders

00:40:57 right and they promised the kids that the kids wouldn't have to wear the masks anymore but then

00:41:01 the government put it back. And now they're having to break their promises to their kids.

00:41:06 And they're worried about that. I'm looking at grandparents whose kids won't let them come and

00:41:10 visit their grandkids because they're not vaccinated. Right. And you're up there telling

00:41:15 us about, you know, you know, six things to learn from Exodus 23. So when are you going to talk

00:41:22 about what's happening? These people are coming to you for spiritual comfort and guidance. And

00:41:29 you were talking to them about something completely unrelated they don't care anything

00:41:33 about right now right and well i have an answer for that i i know i i'm pretty sure i know exactly

00:41:41 what that is and it's something that i've been battling for for quite a while now but um it's

00:41:46 a long time ago in this nation at least a long time ago the church transitioned from christ being

00:41:54 lord of all to christ being lord of my heart it's a private lordship um that's that's jurisdiction

00:42:03 goes no further than the confines of your heart that's why every christian conference is on

00:42:07 marriage and parenting right it's always the home and beyond that the church and so

00:42:13 how to church growth conferences or or church health conferences or expositional preaching

00:42:20 conferences for pastors you know so there's you know which is good i'm an expositional preacher

00:42:24 I go through books of the Bible.

00:42:26 I don't think it's that,

00:42:29 because I could preach the heck out of Exodus 23

00:42:31 in a way that I think you, Jeff, would be like,

00:42:33 this is what people need to hear.

00:42:35 I don't think the problem is the text,

00:42:37 and I know you're not saying that.

00:42:38 The problem is application.

00:42:40 So what I always tell pastors is this.

00:42:41 I say good preaching is composed of three parts.

00:42:44 It's revelation, interpretation, application.

00:42:46 Revelation, the pastor doesn't come before the people

00:42:49 and say, I have a dream.

00:42:50 He doesn't say I have an idea or I have a strategy.

00:42:52 He says, I have a text.

00:42:54 So the revelation is the word of God.

00:42:57 It's the infallible revelation.

00:42:58 Now the pastor can mess it up on the next two steps.

00:43:02 So the revelation is good if he comes with a text.

00:43:04 But then there's interpretation.

00:43:06 That's a faithful exegesis.

00:43:07 What does God mean by this text?

00:43:09 What's the extracting the principles, the theological principles in the text?

00:43:14 Now the problem is a lot of faithful preachers in America, I think they stop right there.

00:43:18 But what happens is if you have a text and an interpretation, a good interpretation of the text,

00:43:23 All you've provided for your people on the Lord's Day is a 45 to 60-minute audible commentary, but not a sermon.

00:43:32 Because a sermon goes beyond just explaining the meaning of the text.

00:43:35 It gets from revelation, interpretation, to application.

00:43:38 It applies the text, and it applies the text as far as the bounds of Christ's lordship go, which is everywhere.

00:43:47 And so I think some guys, they'll say, here's the text, here's the meaning of the text.

00:43:50 And if they ever apply it at all, they apply it to home and church, home and church, marriage, parenting, pastors, leaders in the church, church membership, tithing to the church, right?

00:44:02 So serving the church, giving to the church, being involved in the church, and then being a good wife, being a good husband, being a good dad, being a good mother.

00:44:10 But they don't apply it beyond that.

00:44:12 And we've had this adage being said, you know, it's pretty old, it's ancient at this point, but that, you know, politics need to be out of the pulpit, you know?

00:44:20 But what I always tell people is the statement, Jesus is Lord, is the most political statement that's ever been made in the universe.

00:44:31 Christ is Lord.

00:44:32 And the reason why Christians in Rome were losing their lives, you know, when they were saying that Jesus is Lord, not Caesar, not Kaiser Curios, but Jesus being Lord,

00:44:46 they were losing their lives because Caesar didn't care.

00:44:49 He didn't care about gods.

00:44:51 There were tons of gods.

00:44:53 There were polytheists.

00:44:54 He didn't care about them.

00:44:55 The problem is that Christ, this god, claimed to be king. 0.92

00:44:58 That's the same reason Herod tried to kill all the babies.

00:45:01 That's the same reason.

00:45:02 The reason why political leaders are threatened is with a religion that has an application to every realm of life.

00:45:10 A civil application.

00:45:11 So yes, there is home in the church.

00:45:13 But there's an ecclesiastic application, a familial application, a political application, an economic application.

00:45:21 The Bible says something about economics.

00:45:23 The Bible says not just to give our money, but it also says how to build wealth and what's ethical and what's not ethical.

00:45:29 The Bible has something to say about all this.

00:45:32 To where, as a Christian, I can't.

00:45:35 When you think, well, you could vote for this candidate or that candidate.

00:45:38 No, you can't.

00:45:39 No, you can't.

00:45:40 No, the Bible is really clear.

00:45:42 It's not a 30-page pamphlet. It's a big book. It's 66 books. It's massive, and it has a lot to say

00:45:49 besides just Jesus being Lord of your precious little heart. So I would say the solution is

00:45:54 that pastors need to start getting into that third element of preaching, application, and

00:46:00 applying the gospel and applying God's law as well. God's law is not a means of salvation.

00:46:06 The gospel is the only means of salvation, but God's law is what the Christian does not to earn

00:46:11 salvation, but what the Christian does in gratitude for the free salvation they have in

00:46:16 Jesus Christ. And so we need to preach both law and gospel. And then we need to preach both God's

00:46:22 law and his gospel with an application to every arena of human society and human life. And that

00:46:30 includes the political sphere. And it includes whether or not parents or governments have the

00:46:35 right for for what gets injected in their children god god's word addresses that it does and and so

00:46:42 i i think it's that pastors have bought into this the politics and religion are separate i don't

00:46:47 want to lose my 501c3 we could talk about that i think that's that's an issue you know i don't

00:46:52 want to lose our 501c3 and we're really just the religious arm what man are you afraid of pastor

00:46:58 Right. Right. Yeah. That's the question. And so are you afraid of? Go ahead. Back to you.

00:47:06 Are you supposed to fear the man who can destroy the body? Or is there, I thought there was

00:47:11 somebody else that you were supposed to fear more than that. I, you know, I can't remember

00:47:14 right now. Uh, somebody, I think so it's, but it's much, much worse than this. So what I'm

00:47:22 telling you is that the preaching, it may be perfectly sound preaching for when you're not

00:47:30 in a pandemic with tremendous government tyrannical overreach. Okay. But that's not

00:47:35 where we are. We're in a pandemic with tremendous government tyrannical overreach. And how are we

00:47:40 supposed to respond as Christians to that? Who's going to tell us? Because the guy up in the pulpit

00:47:46 is not saying anything about it. He's pretending there is no pandemic. Right. Right. He's preaching

00:47:52 business as usual about marriage and the family and, you know, tithing, you know, being a servant

00:47:57 in the church and a servant leader and, you know, and all those recycled themes that you get over

00:48:01 and over and over again. And he's not talking about the pandemic. He's not talking about people

00:48:06 getting fired from their jobs. And what are we going to do? Everybody's worried because they

00:48:10 won't be able to go in the hospital if they're not vaccinated, right? Or their loved one is going to

00:48:16 get taken off the kidney transplant list. And what does the church have to say about that?

00:48:22 Right. Are we going to get together? Are we going to reach out to our brothers and sisters who are

00:48:27 being discriminated against and support them? Are we going to build parallel systems for them? Are

00:48:31 we going to bring our, our doctors and nurses who are, who are, you know, our brothers and sisters

00:48:35 in to help and set up a little field hospitals and things. I mean, what are we doing? Right.

00:48:40 And the pastor is just happily talking about, you know, ways to improve your marriage and, you know, be a better dad and think, and it's like, you want a recipe for making the church irrelevant.

00:48:57 That's the recipe on steroids.

00:49:00 Yeah, it's not relevant.

00:49:03 But it's even worse than that.

00:49:05 I wish I could say that was the worst part, but it's so much worse.

00:49:09 It's the heresies, right?

00:49:14 You mentioned one of them before.

00:49:16 Wear your mask because Jesus said to love your neighbor.

00:49:19 Right.

00:49:20 That's not sound theology.

00:49:23 No.

00:49:24 That's heretical theology, right?

00:49:27 That's some kind of workspace theology.

00:49:29 I don't even know what that is, and it's not good.

00:49:32 It's very, whatever it is, is incredibly unseemly.

00:49:36 And what about over and over and over again?

00:49:40 I've been in churches during COVID and I've heard the pastor say, well, we've had another tragedy.

00:49:47 Betty Sue, who's been in our church for 40 years, was 92, but was taken by COVID.

00:49:55 Right. And I'm like, what church is this again?

00:49:59 I thought I was in a Christian church.

00:50:02 Right. Death is not a tragedy.

00:50:05 Death is a door. And saying that she was taken by COVID, who's in charge? COVID? No, God is in charge. God took Betty Sue. We believe he's not confused or surprised or unaware of the COVID.

00:50:27 it's all part of the plan it's been written in history from the beginning he sees the whole

00:50:31 thing he's in control not covid what what kind of crazy heresy is that and how did it get in our

00:50:39 churches no you're right yeah betty sue was taken by god first and foremost in the ultimate sense

00:50:45 because he's sovereign over all things and betty sue was taken by by providentially god first and

00:50:52 foremost to the agency of time she was 92 you know people die you know like we don't want to

00:51:00 be cold or calloused or insensitive about that but people die and if this was i mean that that's

00:51:06 the thing it's like if if this was just you know like smallpox you know like if or or even like

00:51:12 the spanish flu 100 years ago and the way churches responded i mean you can look at this it's

00:51:16 documented you can see like the way that churches and christians and pastors responded 100 years ago

00:51:21 to the spanish flu which was not a respecter of persons this the spanish flu was taking out

00:51:27 uh teenagers and children um and and you look at the way church churches stopped meeting

00:51:33 like like the the majority of churches in america they stopped meeting for three weeks

00:51:37 and then they were back at it not because they had a vaccine not because they had a but but because

00:51:44 they figured out what it was they realized we're going to live with it um but if we got to live

00:51:50 with this with this disease let us let us not live without god you know so like and that's what

00:51:58 we've opted for is like all right so you got a bunch of people who still haven't come to terms

00:52:02 that we're just going to have to live with covet um so the bunch of people haven't come to terms

00:52:06 we're going to live with covet um and so what they've been content to do this and the church

00:52:10 had the choice it's like you can you can try to live without covet get to a point where there's

00:52:15 zero COVID, like New Zealand, which is just preposterous. And the only thing you have to

00:52:20 give up to get no COVID is to also have no God. And many Christians and many pastors were willing

00:52:27 to make, okay, I give up God to get rid of COVID? Okay. Whereas I'd rather live with God and live

00:52:34 with COVID. Life is always a risk. Every time we step out our door, there's a million different

00:52:38 things. He numbers our heads, the hair on our head. He knows the number of our days. He's

00:52:44 sovereign over all these things that doesn't mean we're going to be foolish or we want to be stupid 0.94

00:52:47 but what it does mean is that god is in control and and if you look throughout i i hated when

00:52:53 pastors i remember this too when they were misquoting you know like martin luther and guys

00:52:58 who live you know even charles spurgeon i think was colic and there were different things going

00:53:01 on in his day you know different diseases different plagues um and you know there were

00:53:06 quotes that said i'm not going to go somewhere unless i'm needed unless my presence is needed

00:53:09 because I don't want by accident to, you know, to harm my neighbor, to, you know, to spread the

00:53:16 virus. And those are true quotes by those men, but there are massive distinctions. Number one,

00:53:21 they weren't talking about the Lord's Day worship. They weren't talking about shutting down the

00:53:25 church. They were talking about going and visiting people who were vulnerable and ill in such a way

00:53:31 that you might inflict pain on them. And number two, and I hate to say it like this, but those

00:53:37 guys were making those quotes in the midst of serious illness. And a virus that primarily kills

00:53:48 80-year-olds is just not the same. Explain to me the Christian justification for what we've done

00:53:57 to the widows and orphans by putting them in solitary confinement, right, in their nursing

00:54:03 homes in their hospitals and not letting them see their relatives right while they die of depression

00:54:12 okay give me the christian case for that why isn't the pastor down there demanding to get into the

00:54:19 hospital what's the christian just loving your neighbor oh we don't want to scare our neighbors

00:54:26 because they think if we go in the hospital to visit these these elderly people then we're going

00:54:31 to spread the virus and they might get sick. Right. Meanwhile, they're literally dying in there. 1.00

00:54:38 Right. And where are the pastors saying one thing about it? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it justified?

00:54:46 Is it unjust? Should we change it? Should anybody even consider something different? You know,

00:54:51 should we take people and should we agree to take them into the church if they can't,

00:54:56 you know, get their, their, uh, the attention that they need in the hospital.

00:55:01 Should we be taking over? Where's the discussion, right? Where is,

00:55:05 what happened to the church? Where is it?

00:55:10 We were doing all these things in the first century.

00:55:13 We created the hospitals. That's right. Yeah.

00:55:18 So you, you put your finger on it, you know,

00:55:21 immediately we started talking about this and you said you were quoting,

00:55:25 quoting hebrews and you said that that christ came to earth and took human form to remove the fear of

00:55:31 death from man right but too many christians that i see are terrified of death you're right

00:55:40 yep you're absolutely right they're putting that mask on not not to save their neighbor because

00:55:45 they think it somehow protects them which is totally irrational right which isn't even a

00:55:49 rational thought which isn't christian right there right we believe in rationality but they're doing

00:55:54 it to protect themselves that's why you've got one person sitting in the pew wearing a mask

00:56:00 in in two regards they're protecting themselves in two regards they because they fear two things

00:56:05 you're right it's not to protect their neighbor's physical safety it's to protect themselves in some

00:56:11 cases to protect their own physical safety because they're afraid of death or it's to protect their

00:56:16 reputation because they're afraid of man so it's either the virtue right they're wearing it so

00:56:21 Some people are doing it because they're afraid of getting sick,

00:56:23 and it's back to what you're saying, the fear of death,

00:56:25 and that's a major problem.

00:56:27 And then others, they're not even wearing it for that reason.

00:56:30 They know.

00:56:31 They know it's irrational, and they know that it's not going to protect them,

00:56:34 and they know that they're fine.

00:56:35 They're a 30-year-old healthy person.

00:56:38 But for them, they're trying to protect their reputation.

00:56:40 They're trying to protect their image and what man says about them.

00:56:44 So was the fear of death or the fear of man,

00:56:47 I think those are the two really big ones that, sadly, we have seen that you would expect the church to be more resilient.

00:56:57 The church is made up of sinners, saved by grace, and so we have temptations also.

00:57:02 But still, you would expect the saving grace of Christ and his sanctifying power in the life of believers,

00:57:09 you would expect that group of people to be more resilient to the fear of death and the fear of man.

00:57:15 And sadly, I think we've seen that when it comes to the unbeliever and the believer, that it doesn't look like there is much distinction.

00:57:24 It's hard to tell the difference, isn't it?

00:57:27 And, you know, the most freeing thing that ever happened to me becoming a Christian is losing my fear of death.

00:57:34 Now, I'm not so hot about the idea of dying, right?

00:57:39 Right.

00:57:39 But I'm not afraid of death.

00:57:40 and uh how how liberating is that i mean you know it's just like there's nothing better than that

00:57:48 that's the most unbelievable gift that we could have possibly been given is not to have that

00:57:54 that fear and yet so many christians this pandemic has shown are terrified of dying they'll do

00:58:02 anything the government wants them to do if it just keeps them alive a little bit longer listen

00:58:06 I got bad news for them. They're going to die. It is appointed unto man wants to die. 0.98

00:58:12 That's right. Amen. Right. Then the judgment. Yeah. And then the judgment. And so what are 0.98

00:58:18 you clinging to Christian? Right. You, a couple more years, right. You you're aware you could

00:58:25 die in a car wreck tomorrow or have an embolism or, you know, God can take you any number of ways

00:58:30 anytime he wants, right. You're not going to cheat death by putting that mask on.

00:58:36 it's not going to happen. He'll take you when it's your time, whether it was COVID or something

00:58:42 else. I'm not a Calvinist, right? I am, but go ahead. I'll talk to my Calvinistic brother then

00:58:55 and say, you're not going to go jump off a cliff, right? Because that's not your destiny. That's

00:59:02 not what God's written out for your life, right? So saying, well, you know, I'm going to do it just

00:59:09 to be prudent and I don't want to be reckless. Well, you'll be reckless or you won't be reckless

00:59:13 depending on God's providential plan for your life. So this whole thing, I mean, I just don't

00:59:22 even get it. I just don't understand how we got here and why isn't the church fighting the spirit

00:59:28 the fear. There was a, I watched a YouTube video that was making the rounds in my little town of

00:59:34 Gainesville, Florida from Christ Community Church, who I probably shouldn't have named him, but I'm

00:59:39 going to do it anyways. And they had the local epidemiologist that advises the school board and

00:59:44 the county commission in there, right? And this guy's all, he's wrong more times than a stopped

00:59:51 clock, right? The stop clock is right twice a day. This guy's always right. He's always saying

00:59:56 cases are going to spike and then they go down right and then he you know and then he says it's

01:00:01 going to be a terrible dark winter and then you know it's nothing right we're not going to be

01:00:06 able to go to football games and then they pack the stadium and nothing it's going to be a super

01:00:10 spreader and then it's not a super spreader right i mean the guy's never right but and the pastor

01:00:16 turned over the pulpit to this guy for 30 minutes so he could preach fear

01:00:20 yeah what's going on why what what's the point of that you know is it is it to you think you're

01:00:33 like informing people to let this scientist who's always wrong and by the way all the guy says is

01:00:41 whatever the cdc says anyways right yeah he never contradicts the cdc so whenever the cdc changes

01:00:49 heat changes which raises a very good question what do we need him for yeah what do we need him

01:00:54 for and you know nobody contradicts the cdc more than the cdc oh that's a good one i'm going to use

01:01:02 that but no i yeah you're right it's like yeah the pastor is giving a fault it's a false prophet

01:01:08 but here's here's what's so interesting to me you know because i think about like jeremiah you know

01:01:12 the false prophets you know that prophesied peace peace when there is no peace and today we have

01:01:17 false prophets prophesying doom doom when when there is no doom um which which doesn't make

01:01:26 sense right so you read jeremiah and it makes sense that you know the prophets of god were

01:01:29 usually the ones who were prophesying doom that you know that you need to turn from you know from 0.81

01:01:34 the baals and the asherah poles and all of your wicked ways and your false gods and idol worship 0.82

01:01:40 to yahweh the one true god or judgment will come upon the land and it will be severe because god 0.97

01:01:46 is a jealous god it was this this prophecy of doom and that was the true prophet the one who

01:01:51 actually spoke for god and then the false prophets were the ones who would say peace peace prosperity

01:01:56 things are good and then it's it's funny because you know because it it seems easy to detect what

01:02:03 what the incentive might be for a false prophet to say that everything's fine um because they want

01:02:09 to continue their way of life um but but then in our day it's like the false prophets are the ones

01:02:15 who are saying you know they're the chicken littles who are saying the sky is falling

01:02:19 and it's not you know they're the boys who are crying wolf so the false prophets are the ones

01:02:24 who are saying doom and so you have to ask like then what what is the incentive and i can't help

01:02:29 but think that i think a lot of these false prophets there's only a few in actuality there's

01:02:35 only a handful everybody else is just is just echoes it's just ripples it's just you know what

01:02:41 mean it's just the people repeating but but the guys who are actually the false prophets

01:02:45 um it a false prophet is always going to prophesy false things that benefit him

01:02:52 and um whether it's it's it's positive things that are false that benefit him like peace peace

01:02:59 or whether it's negative things that are false that benefit him like doom doom um and and then

01:03:04 everybody else just repeats it for all of their ulterior motives because they actually believe it

01:03:09 and are afraid for their physical safety

01:03:11 or because they don't believe it,

01:03:13 but they're afraid of what people will think,

01:03:16 right, the fear of man.

01:03:16 So all these different things,

01:03:17 that's all the repeaters, you know.

01:03:20 But the initial guys, the source,

01:03:23 I think it's because never let a good crisis go to waste

01:03:27 because fear is, right?

01:03:31 So individual liberty, constitutional law,

01:03:34 like individual liberty, public safety.

01:03:36 Like how in the world do you get around?

01:03:38 we have a beautiful constitution how in the world do you get around the provisions for individual

01:03:44 liberty that are laid out you have you have to somehow talk the american people of supposedly

01:03:51 a freedom loving people the home of the the free and you know um the the land of the free and the

01:03:57 home of the brave right i don't know when we stopped being that but the land of the free and

01:04:01 the home of the brave you have to somehow talk these people brave free freedom loving people

01:04:05 to give up individual freedom to allow some leaders, some false prophets at the top to

01:04:11 have all this power and do their great reset. So what incentive can you give people

01:04:19 where they would actually cash in their precious freedoms? And I think the only thing that people

01:04:25 tend to be willing to make that trade for is public safety, individual freedom for public

01:04:31 safety and and so you have you have to have a crisis right climate crisis climate crisis climate

01:04:37 crisis you know and a lot of it's just like it's just not believable you know and and and then they

01:04:42 start trying to scare you more they you know as covid starts to wane it's like clockwork right

01:04:46 so when cases go down and they don't have as much talking points with that then it man let's look we

01:04:51 really need to talk about climate again you know climate crisis climate and and and they've realized

01:04:55 the climate thing doesn't do it for most people they just don't care right it's not an imminent

01:04:59 threat and so what do they do they always are bumping up the dates and and i think that's like

01:05:03 it's it's it's false prophets and they're putting dates they're putting numbers they're making

01:05:08 predictions and they don't come to pass and like what what do you do in the old testament with a

01:05:14 false prophet who says this is going to take place thus saith the lord and he's putting words in the

01:05:19 mouth of god and then and then it it you get to that point and it doesn't come to pass you you

01:05:25 don't listen to him anymore and yet we have people who it's like they're paid to to to conjure up

01:05:32 false prophecies like that that's what's so crazy about you're saying like he's always wrong and

01:05:37 then people are like this guy who's been he was wrong last month he was wrong about five things

01:05:42 this month he's wrong about 17 things um let's get him uh to speak at this next event it's like

01:05:48 the more they're wrong the more prestige they get like in what world right if you had a weatherman

01:05:53 on the news and he was wrong every single time like he would lose his job but that that's what

01:05:59 makes me think like we got to see the bigger picture that um it's not about getting the

01:06:04 prediction right it's about the doom it's selling the doom in order to get the power so they're not

01:06:12 looking for guys with with accurate predictions they're not looking for accurate profits they're

01:06:17 just looking for the scariest profits with the scariest prophecies so that everybody will hand

01:06:23 over their freedom with a little bit of time that they've got power both in the senate and in the

01:06:29 white house so they can cram through three trillion dollar packages with universal child

01:06:35 care for three-year-olds yeah i think that's it yeah but you know don't you feel like it's

01:06:42 something bigger than i mean you're you're attributing a very human um incentive to this

01:06:48 thing, right? Their desire for power and to build their legacy generational wealth at our expense

01:06:59 and reorder society with their great reset and things like that. But it just feels like

01:07:07 it's got to be more than that. So for example, we were talking before about natural immunity versus

01:07:15 uh injection immunity right how many post injection people do you know who have gotten infected

01:07:24 well i i don't really know hardly anybody who's gotten the injection

01:07:27 so oh well you're you're in a good spot then so i will tell you that most of us at this point you

01:07:34 can read this in the in the news right there's stories about breakthrough infections are all

01:07:38 all over the place. I know dozens of people who got COVID after getting the injections. Now,

01:07:46 how many people do you know that had COVID and then got reinfected?

01:07:54 None, right? I don't know any. And so everybody, whether you're, you know, whatever side of the

01:08:01 political spectrum that you're on, or whether you're jabbed or not jabbed or whatever, we're

01:08:05 all having the same experience in life right we're all seeing with our own eyes right with our own

01:08:11 our own friends and relatives the people who are getting the injections are getting sick and the

01:08:16 people who who had it are not getting sick right but it's not but all that experience that real

01:08:23 world experience is not moving the needle at all yeah okay and it puts you in mind and i'm not

01:08:31 I'm not an end timer. Okay. Or anything like that,

01:08:35 but it does put you in mind to that scripture from the book of revelations

01:08:38 about the strong delusion because these people seem to be deluded.

01:08:44 Right. It seemed they, they cannot think clearly.

01:08:49 They can't see what's in front of their own eyes.

01:08:52 They can't see that people aren't dropping like flies of this COVID.

01:08:58 Right. That's not their experience of life,

01:09:01 But yet they believe it when these people who are trying to control them with the doom that you were talking about, when they say it with words on a screen, and these people accept it as if it were revelation.

01:09:16 Yeah, I think we're getting at two different – because I completely agree with you.

01:09:21 I think the incentive, you know, my explanation that I was offering is saying, I think this makes sense of the false prophets themselves, this handful of guys up here.

01:09:31 And then what you're getting at is you're saying what you're so perplexed by is not, you're saying, okay, well, that could be the motive for these five guys and the incentive to cram through agenda, you know, power.

01:09:42 But I think what you've been so grieved by

01:09:45 Just as a follower of Jesus

01:09:47 And a defender of people's rights and freedoms

01:09:50 Is just

01:09:51 Why are these false prophets

01:09:54 I can see why they might say things falsely

01:09:56 Why is it working

01:09:58 On everyone

01:09:59 Why is everyone buying it

01:10:01 It seems like that's kind of what

01:10:03 And you're saying there's got to be something spiritual

01:10:05 There can be these

01:10:07 Human incentives and motives

01:10:09 With individuals at the top

01:10:11 Who are saying these things

01:10:12 and maybe coming up with the initial talking points,

01:10:15 but for everybody else who is listening

01:10:17 and it's directly contradicting their lived experience, right?

01:10:22 Because you know when there's the black plague

01:10:24 because you know one of the dead giveaways,

01:10:28 a guy named Doug Wilson said this,

01:10:29 I really enjoy him and his commentary,

01:10:32 especially throughout all the COVID stuff.

01:10:33 But he said, you know that it's bad

01:10:35 when you hear a bell ringing

01:10:37 and there's a guy walking down your street

01:10:39 saying, bring out your debt, right?

01:10:40 And I had the opportunity,

01:10:41 I was at a pastor's meeting recently, just like three weeks ago. And two of the guys, they were

01:10:46 lay elders. And so they weren't paid by the church. They weren't vocational pastors. They had a day

01:10:51 job. And their day job was each of them. It was really weird because there's only like 30 of us.

01:10:56 And there's two guys who each owned a funeral home in different cities. And so we talked to

01:11:03 them in the meeting. I didn't just talk to them afterwards. The guy who was leading the meeting

01:11:07 asked them to stand up and give their testimony over the last 18 months and they said yeah we

01:11:12 we were uh we were promised that business was going to be booming and and everyone's like so

01:11:17 how's it been and they're like same as every other year you know like this mini covid does

01:11:24 and magically we got rid of the flu turns out right where the flu go yeah you know so so you're

01:11:32 right so why why are people believing it where's the curiosity over where the flu went you're right

01:11:39 yeah that's the that's the thing you're right you know here we've solved it we've been working on

01:11:44 it our whole lives and now it's all nobody cared right yeah yeah nobody cared no you're absolutely

01:11:50 right so what so let's let's go ahead and wrap up but what do you think what so you know i'm

01:11:55 getting at the the power incentives for the guys who are maybe behind the levers but you're saying

01:12:00 but the fact that this is working, it's so easy to see through, and yet it's working on the masses

01:12:07 and on the Christian masses. It seems like that's your biggest concern, and I agree. That's a huge 0.99

01:12:15 concern. That's one of my big concerns as a pastor, and I preach against that, so I don't really have

01:12:20 that in my local church. My local church knows better because I've preached on this from the

01:12:24 pulpit and in podcasts like this. Once a week wasn't enough, so I've ramped it up and doing

01:12:29 other things. And so my sheep, they're Christ sheep, but the ones that I'm stewarding as a

01:12:33 local pastor, this is not their issue. But I still am concerned for so many Christians that I hear 0.68

01:12:37 about outside of my church. So what do you think, Jeff? What do you think is why are people falling

01:12:42 for it? Why aren't they curious? Why aren't they poking and pressing and questioning?

01:12:48 so our savior is three things right the way the something and the life what's the something

01:12:59 truth the truth where is truth today right is it in the media no is it from those five guys

01:13:12 right that are that are running every is it from joe biden or whoever's telling joe biden what to

01:13:20 say right yeah no right no where where is it is it in the minds of all these deluded people

01:13:27 no i've never seen anything like this in my entire life and i bet you haven't either

01:13:35 And I bet most of us haven't seen anything like this, this persistent, untruthful delusion that is antibiotic resistant, let's say, right?

01:13:49 If you've ever tried to sit down with someone and talk them out of it, what happens?

01:13:56 They don't listen, right?

01:13:58 you can't dig their heels in and become more convinced of you know of the other side and not

01:14:04 not because of logic but they're just like this emotional reaction yeah they they may become angry

01:14:11 with you right which is what happens listen to this clinical levels of paranoia that's how people

01:14:18 react when you try to convince them that their paranoid beliefs aren't reasonable then they can

01:14:26 they become hostile and angry. And so I believe to answer your question, what we're seeing is

01:14:35 an epidemic, a worldwide epidemic of mental illness, uncharacteristic of which is clinical

01:14:44 levels of paranoia, right? The vaccinated people believing that all the unvaccinated people are

01:14:51 out to get them. Right. That's, that's paranoia and schizophrenia. People who are suffering from 1.00

01:15:02 delusions and truth is irrelevant to them, right? A schizophrenic doesn't care what's true.

01:15:10 Yeah. They're not even looking for the truth, right? Their, their brain isn't working properly. 1.00

01:15:17 And so they've constructed a whole different reality for themselves.

01:15:22 And so to answer your question, unfortunately, because I'm an optimist, right, and I don't like to dwell on the negatives, but I think that what we have is a literal epidemic, right, not a COVID-style epidemic, a literal epidemic of mental illness like we have never seen before,

01:15:42 where huge numbers of the population are clinically paranoid

01:15:46 and possibly schizophrenic, high-functioning schizophrenics.

01:15:51 That's what I think.

01:15:53 Wow.

01:15:54 I've heard a lot of commentary on the pandemic,

01:15:59 Christians' responses, government responses.

01:16:02 That's the first time I've heard that,

01:16:04 and I think that that is really insightful.

01:16:08 I think, you know, I shouldn't be smiling.

01:16:11 I just, I just, it was so interesting and profound when you said it, you know, it kind

01:16:16 of caught me off guard, not, not because it was extreme, but because it, it really makes

01:16:22 a lot of sense, but I shouldn't be smiling because that's terrible news.

01:16:27 It's a very dangerous situation.

01:16:30 Yeah.

01:16:32 And so we need the church now more than ever.

01:16:34 We need the gospel of Jesus Christ.

01:16:36 we need pastors to be men to preach to care to love we need the church on sunday to be the church

01:16:45 and monday through saturday to get out of the four walls and to be the church and to fight for

01:16:50 people's rights and to go and visit the sick you know that what you were saying earlier was it was

01:16:54 it was good it was convicting even for me that not just producing content content's important but

01:17:01 but beyond just that uh jesus you know just reminded me when you're talking about you know

01:17:06 people dying alone because they can't be visited, widows and orphans. And I just thought of the

01:17:11 words of Jesus who said, you visited me when I was in prison. You cared for me when I was sick.

01:17:18 When I was naked, you clothed me. When did we do this for you? When you did it for the least of

01:17:24 these, my brothers. And yeah. Well, Jeff, thank you so much for coming on the show. I think you've

01:17:32 given me and our listeners i hope a lot to think about one more time where can my listeners find

01:17:38 your article because that's why that's why i reached out to you i read the article and and

01:17:42 not just me it was actually another another member of our church he read it he sent it to me and other

01:17:47 men in the church and he was like joel you you got to read this and you got to get this guy

01:17:52 on your show he like he's saying similar things to what you're saying but but he's got even more

01:18:00 more practical examples and substance and uh and that's what the article what the article helped

01:18:06 it helped me who was already speaking out against some of these things it helped to substantiate

01:18:11 more some of my arguments so people were already seeing things the way that you and i are

01:18:15 but need more that's what that your article did i think that's why it went viral it wasn't just

01:18:20 that it blew the lid off of something but it was written like you would expect a lawyer to write

01:18:25 something. It was just, it was very well articulated and substantiated. And so where can

01:18:30 our listeners find that? And then lastly, where can they find it? And how else can they, one more

01:18:35 time, your blog, how can they follow you? Yeah. Well, it's the same answer. So if they'll go to

01:18:40 my blog, which we have our own URL now, so it's www.coffeeandcovid, because you need your coffee

01:18:49 before you have to listen to the stuff about COVID, right?

01:18:52 Coffee and COVID.com.

01:18:54 And you can sign up for the daily newsletter

01:18:57 if you like what you have there,

01:19:00 but you can also go to the Faith in COVID tab

01:19:02 and then click under that.

01:19:04 And I've got some articles under there

01:19:05 and you will pretty quickly find,

01:19:07 because it's prominent,

01:19:10 what the church needs to know about COVID-19

01:19:14 and what to do about it.

01:19:16 For sure.

01:19:17 Well, Jeff Childers, thanks again so much for coming on the show.

01:19:20 And we'll see what God does in this crazy time that we're living in.

01:19:25 And maybe we'll get you back on sometime in the future.

01:19:27 Sounds great.

01:19:28 This was a pleasure.

01:19:29 I appreciate it.

01:19:30 Great.

01:19:30 All right.

01:19:31 God bless.

01:19:32 As a special thank you for your gift of any amount, we'll be happy to send you a free

01:19:36 digital book from our store.

01:19:37 To access this offer, visit rightresponseministries.com slash offer.

01:19:42 we highly recommend

01:19:44 Pastor Joel's book

01:19:45 Am I Truly Saved

01:19:46 if you or someone you know

01:19:48 has wrestled with doubts

01:19:49 about the love of God

01:19:50 this would be a great resource

01:19:52 as a reminder

01:19:53 to get this offer

01:19:54 go to

01:19:54 rightresponseministries.com

01:19:56 slash offer

01:19:56 and thank you

01:19:58 for your generous support

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The NXR Podcast - October 27, 2021

THEOLOGY APPLIED - Tyranny & Fear ｜ How Thoughtless Compliance Is Not Loving Your Neighbor

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