The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Tyranny & Fear ｜ How Thoughtless Compliance Is Not Loving Your Neighbor

00:00:00.000 Hi, this is Pastor Joel Webbin with Right Response Ministries, and you're listening to another episode of Theology Applying.

00:00:06.660 In this episode, I was privileged to have as a special guest, Jeff Childers.

00:00:10.800 Jeff Childers is a practicing lawyer and a devoted follower of Jesus Christ,

00:00:15.900 who has done a lot of work regarding the legality of mandated Vs on the private sector,

00:00:21.660 as well now as school-aged children in public schools and soon-to-be private schools in the state of California.

00:00:29.460 you're in for a real treat. That said, for anybody who is willing to support Right Response Ministries

00:00:35.080 and give a donation of any amount, you can do so by going to rightresponseministries.com. Again,

00:00:41.060 that's rightresponseministries.com. We are grateful for your prayers, grateful for your encouragement,

00:00:46.420 and we need your financial support if you're able to do so. If not, would you please subscribe to

00:00:53.020 our YouTube channel and share our content with your family and friends? That's another way to

00:00:57.940 support us if you're not in a position to do so financially. And we are grateful for all the

00:01:03.480 support that we get. That said, I want to mention to you a ministry called Carpe Fide. Carpe Fide,

00:01:09.820 not Carpe Diem, but Carpe Fide. Seize the faith. This is one of their shirts. They were recently

00:01:15.580 at the G3 conference. And so maybe some of you who went to that conference may have seen them.

00:01:20.460 This is Burn the Ships. It's from Cortez when he landed in Latin America. It's the legendary

00:01:25.780 phrase that he uttered to his crew saying burn the ships symbolizing we're not going back there

00:01:32.440 is no retreat we will only advance so too the people of christ need to have that mindset there

00:01:38.540 is no retreat there is no going back we are pushing forward by the grace of god and the

00:01:43.960 strength and courage he provides here's one more shirt from carpe fide that's the back of the shirt

00:01:49.060 carpe fide the front of the shirt says this come and take it come and take it this is the iconic

00:01:57.460 phrase from king leonidas as well as the texas fortress that was being defended except they've

00:02:03.660 replaced the picture of a cannon with the picture of a pulpit this needs to be the cry of pastors

00:02:10.660 and christians when it comes to a tyrannical government and everyone who purchases one of

00:02:16.540 these come and take it shirts from carpe fide a portion of the proceeds is going actually to

00:02:21.860 pastor james coates in alberta canada who said to his tyrannical government there i'm not handing

00:02:28.040 over the church i'm not handing over the pulpit i'm not handing over the preaching of god's word

00:02:33.260 if you want it then you're going to have to come and take it because i'm going to preach god's

00:02:38.120 word hell or high water i'm preaching christ and him crucified so everybody who buys one of those

00:02:44.020 shirts, the Come and Take It shirts from Carpe Fide will be giving and supporting Pastor James

00:02:50.560 Coates and his church in Alberta, Canada. All right, without further ado, I hope you enjoy

00:02:55.160 today's episode of Theology Applied. Applying God's word to every aspect of life. This is Theology

00:03:03.320 Applied. All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied. As I already said,

00:03:12.960 I am privileged to have as a special guest Jeff Childers. He's a practicing lawyer. He's also a

00:03:18.020 devoted follower of Christ, and I am very pleased to have you on the show. Welcome, Jeff. Would you

00:03:22.780 take a moment and just introduce yourself to our listeners? Thanks, Pastor. I'm Jeff Childers. As

00:03:28.020 you said, I have a small commercial litigation practice in Gainesville, Florida. We are located

00:03:35.720 in a very traditionally Democrat blue area, which is a little unusual for Florida, or at least

00:03:42.840 how people outside of Florida think of it. About 18 months ago, when the first mask mandates were

00:03:49.840 passed, I started, I sued the county over that mask mandate. And as far as I know, I have the

00:03:58.500 only appellate decision in the entire country, finding that mandatory masking is presumptively

00:04:05.000 unconstitutional. And as a result of that, I've gotten a lot of attention and more opportunities.

00:04:13.920 And so we've been filing more cases. And two weeks ago, again, to my knowledge, I have the only

00:04:21.120 decision that entered a broad injunction against the city's vaccine mandate for its employees.

00:04:30.680 So we were able to shut that down. And, you know, again, for whatever reason, I don't think anybody else in the country has done it yet.

00:04:40.840 But we've solved that problem for government employers in Florida.

00:04:45.620 And I believe that that template will work in most other states.

00:04:51.240 So people need to look into it. We're now aiming at private employers.

00:04:57.120 So probably within the next week or two, we'll be filing an emergency case against a private hospital over in Pensacola.

00:05:07.780 Wow. Praise God for that.

00:05:09.700 Well, I feel like if you were successful in the government front of federal or government employees, then the private sector should be easier.

00:05:21.040 Am I right in my thinking with that?

00:05:22.740 It's exactly opposite from that.

00:05:24.920 Really? Could you explain why?

00:05:27.960 I can. So the government actors are all subject to constitutional limitations, right?

00:05:35.660 Our Constitution and the Constitution of each state is a limitation on government.

00:05:42.080 With a couple of notable exceptions, like the 13th and 14th Amendments that restrain people from discriminating based on race, everything else in the Constitution is a restriction on government.

00:05:54.300 So, you know, all of those things, the First Amendment, the right to privacy and all that stuff, it doesn't apply to private actors.

00:06:03.460 So we need different theories for private companies than we can use against the government.

00:06:09.100 We have a lot more tools for government employers.

00:06:11.840 I think I was thinking primarily of the employees in the private sector being non-governmental employees and having certain privileges and rights.

00:06:21.460 but I wasn't thinking of the employers,

00:06:23.640 the corporations themselves being free market corporations

00:06:26.320 that have more freedom.

00:06:29.620 So that makes sense.

00:06:31.960 Well, so we were talking a little bit

00:06:33.940 before we started recording

00:06:35.020 and you said that for you,

00:06:36.920 like pretty much everybody else in the country

00:06:39.340 and in the world,

00:06:40.660 the Lord shook a lot of things up 18 months ago with COVID

00:06:43.460 and changed, it seems like your focus in your career

00:06:46.240 and your practice, vocation, all those things.

00:06:48.540 But even in the church world, you said that your wife and you, you guys have moved to another church.

00:06:56.600 Can you tell us a little bit about that?

00:06:59.500 Yeah, so, and I don't know how far back to start, but I know you know this, but I don't know how many of your viewers know.

00:07:09.380 But I wrote an article called What the Church Needs to Know About COVID-19, and it went viral.

00:07:15.640 I was deplatformed from, you know, two of my platforms that I was on because of that article.

00:07:21.880 Now I've been writing about COVID every single day in my daily blog for a year and a half and

00:07:27.640 never was deplatformed. It was only when I wrote that article about the church that I got deplatformed

00:07:34.240 and that, that article, notwithstanding getting thrown off of a couple of platforms, that's over

00:07:40.840 a million views on that now. Wow. And it's sort of, it was given to me and maybe I should, you

00:07:51.240 know, if we have time, I can tell you how that came to be because I think that's helpful sort

00:07:58.200 of in understanding the big picture. Yeah, go ahead. So I went to a small conservative leadership

00:08:08.400 meeting in central Florida a few months ago and there were only about 40 people there and

00:08:14.520 you know the CEO of America's Frontline Doctors was there and the CEO of Project Veritas was there

00:08:22.420 and you know somehow I got an invitation. Several of us were what they called opinion makers right

00:08:31.720 and I guess my daily blog somehow you know qualified me. It was very providential

00:08:36.740 and there was a pastor there uh who was introduced as you know and each of us had to stand up and

00:08:46.600 you know give our little bio and and introduce ourselves to the group and but somebody introduced

00:08:52.140 each person and this pastor was introduced as a pastor with guts and something about that phrase

00:08:59.440 really grabbed me right and I was like wow that's that's interesting so that's what I wrote down in

00:09:05.180 my notes. I wrote pastors with guts and I circled it and put a star next to it. And when I got back

00:09:11.660 to Gainesville that next Monday, one of my friends who's a retired pastor was reacting to something

00:09:23.060 totally separate, not connected at all that I'd written in my blog. And he texted me, you know,

00:09:30.000 Jeff, what should we do about this? And, um, you know, I, I need another project like a hole in

00:09:36.280 the head. Right. So I texted him back and, and for some reason, right. I was so convicted by that, 0.90

00:09:42.980 that little phrase, I texted him back and I said, we need more pastors with guts.

00:09:49.620 And so of course he texted me right back and said, well, what should we do about that?

00:09:54.300 Yeah. I said, well, why don't you make a list of all the pastors with guts that, you know,

00:09:58.460 and let's see what we have to work with. And a couple of days went by and I didn't hear anything

00:10:03.900 about it. And I had sort of forgotten about it. And then I get a text from him and he says, Hey,

00:10:08.100 what are you doing next Thursday? And, you know, I could, I had some things on the calendar,

00:10:12.420 but I could move them around. And I said, well, I could, I could get loose, but what do you need?

00:10:16.020 And he said, well, I'd like you to come and talk to a group of directors of the North Central

00:10:21.820 Florida Baptist Association that together supervise about 450 churches. And I was like,

00:10:30.140 okay, and something, you know, that's not something I normally do, right? I'm the lawyer.

00:10:36.120 But something convicted me in that moment. And so I agreed to do it. Well, fast forward to the

00:10:44.100 next week. I hadn't had any time to get prepared. And it was the Wednesday night before the Thursday

00:10:52.240 meeting where I was supposed to speak. And it was nine o'clock. And I usually I get up at 430 in

00:10:59.180 the morning. So I usually try to get to bed before 10. And it was already nine. So I sat down to just

00:11:04.600 write, you know, try to write a little outline of what I might say to these, these pastors who

00:11:10.520 supervise all these churches. And instead, what happened was I opened up PowerPoint

00:11:17.200 and 47 slides came out, one after another, fully formed, just perfect. I haven't given that talk

00:11:29.120 many times now, and I've never really changed anything except updating some of the data.

00:11:33.960 and it was just a message that was delivered to me right in that moment

00:11:40.400 so I went out and I gave the the talk and it was very similar it's a little bit longer format with

00:11:49.240 more detail than what's in the article but it was more or less the the contents of that article and

00:11:54.560 I totally convicted all those guys I really completely changed the way that they were

00:12:01.240 looking at the pandemic and how they were ministering to folks and how they were leading

00:12:06.860 their pastors that they supervised and everything. So I wound up giving that talk a few more times

00:12:15.200 to successively larger groups of pastors. And I got the same response every time.

00:12:21.500 You know, I just really, and as an attorney, as a litigating attorney, you know, I talk to juries,

00:12:29.200 I talk to judges, right? I'm good at persuasive public presentations, right? But it was the

00:12:38.160 material. There's just no arguing with it, right? And it's scripturally based. And, you know,

00:12:45.820 there's not, I've had, you know, a few questions at the end, like one pastor asked me, he's like,

00:12:52.860 well, Jeff, you know, I only get them for a couple of hours on Sunday. And then they're back out in

00:12:58.060 the world and they're watching cnn and they're you know they're getting all this programming

00:13:02.220 and uh you know i just don't have any way to influence that and i said pastor all right i'm

00:13:09.840 going to blow your mind okay said what i'm suggesting to you is that if you will get out

00:13:18.520 of the church and if you will go down to the school board and you will deliver a fiery three

00:13:25.840 minute sermon to those school board members. Somebody is going to videotape it on their phone

00:13:31.980 and they're going to put it on YouTube and you're going to get a million views.

00:13:36.900 I said, pastor, there's, you have never had an opportunity like this in your life in history

00:13:41.640 ever, right? But you've got to get out there. You've got to go where you're needed. You've got

00:13:49.540 take the gospel, put it in a suitcase and take it down to the school board. Right. So those are

00:13:57.200 those are the kinds of questions that I would get in the answers. I had one pastor who's also

00:14:04.240 from Texas who called me up and he said, Jeff, you know, and he had read my article and everything

00:14:10.080 and he was convicted by it. But again, still not quite, you know, getting it. And he called me up

00:14:15.820 And he said, Jeff, I'm getting all these, you know, I did a YouTube, I was, you know, I was encouraged by your, your article.

00:14:24.060 So I did this YouTube about religious exemptions.

00:14:26.560 And now I'm getting calls from all over the country of people, random people that I've never met.

00:14:32.080 And I don't know. And they want me to write them a letter, a religious exemption letter.

00:14:36.600 Right. And he said, I'm really conflicted because on the one hand, I want to help them.

00:14:42.000 But on the other hand, I don't know them and I don't really, I don't know that I can honestly attest that they have a sincerely held religious belief about this.

00:14:52.140 And so I said, pastor, you're, you're still, you're doing good, but you're still not getting it right.

00:14:58.880 I said, pastor, you're the bronze serpent.

00:15:05.820 You're being held up for people to look at and be healed.

00:15:12.000 So when they call you up, it's not about you trying to intuit whether they're sincerely held.

00:15:17.580 You need to convert them on the phone.

00:15:20.740 You tell them, hey, listen, I'd be happy to write you that letter. 0.61

00:15:24.540 But first, we're going to have to do this sinner's prayer, right?

00:15:27.980 And I'm going to have to give you a little theology lesson here.

00:15:30.880 And you're going to have to do the steps with me so that I can honestly say that you have a sincerely held religious belief.

00:15:39.520 And he was like, wow.

00:15:42.000 It's like, yeah, you're right.

00:15:43.300 I never thought of it like that.

00:15:44.700 I said, you've got these opportunities.

00:15:46.420 I said, Pastor, they're coming to you.

00:15:49.400 They're coming to you, right?

00:15:51.760 When was the last time that happened, that you had this many people rushing to you to be converted to Christ?

00:15:59.960 Right?

00:16:02.680 Well, real quick, let's get into the article a little bit.

00:16:08.900 First, could you let our listeners know, because some of them are going to be like, what's this article?

00:16:12.240 I want to read it.

00:16:13.260 I read it, and that's why I reached out to you and wanted to have you on the show,

00:16:16.680 because I thought it was incredibly well written, and not just the theology behind it,

00:16:20.980 the biblical imperatives, how we should be thinking as Christians,

00:16:25.220 but you had so much substance, and it was written by a lawyer.

00:16:30.960 You could tell.

00:16:32.040 You were substantiating your claims, providing biblical persuasion,

00:16:36.940 but, but then also evidence for, um, why these things are, it's not just business as usual.

00:16:42.820 It's not just your typical vaccine. And, and so, so first where can, where can people go and find

00:16:48.400 this article? So, um, they would go to my blog's website, which is www.coffeeandcovid.com.

00:16:59.440 And it's a daily, uh, summary of news that I write. And, um, you think people are welcome to,

00:17:05.460 to look at old blog posts and see if they like it. And if they do, they can sign up,

00:17:10.940 but there's a tab on there called faith in COVID. And if they click on faith in COVID,

00:17:16.420 then that'll take them to a page where they can see my article again, which is called what the

00:17:21.100 church needs to know about COVID-19 and what to do about it. Right. So what, what does the church

00:17:29.460 need to know about COVID-19? I have here written as a question that I wanted to ask you, you know,

00:17:35.460 because part of what you got at you know and part of what some other guys are you know project

00:17:40.560 veritas and some people are starting to slowly but surely blow the lid off of some of these

00:17:45.580 things and so one of my questions would be this if there are safe and effective treatments for

00:17:50.080 covid and if covid is not as dangerous as many people believe it is what's the incentive then

00:17:56.280 for the government the medical establishment mainstream media to continue to push the jab

00:18:02.960 instead of taking the infamous horse tranquilizer pill

00:18:08.840 as they like to present it.

00:18:11.900 What is the incentive?

00:18:13.040 Why is the push?

00:18:15.120 If there are these other avenues,

00:18:17.820 what do you think the incentive is?

00:18:19.280 What's behind this whole thing?

00:18:21.100 I would add two more to your list.

00:18:23.640 I would say we also know now that the COVID injections

00:18:29.020 don't prevent the spread of COVID.

00:18:31.800 That's right.

00:18:32.100 and that was exactly opposite to what they told us through may of this year that's right

00:18:40.140 this year fauci was out there saying you won't get covid if you take the injection

00:18:44.880 right and it was your duty your duty to your neighbor and then pastors

00:18:50.880 i call them even jellyfish pastors you know the ones with no spine um they immediately picked up

00:18:58.420 that that talking point from fauci and it was love your neighbor love your neighbor but now we know

00:19:03.700 that it's not just that you can get the virus and the cdc has said this and people are getting taken

00:19:07.960 off of youtube this episode might be taken down from youtube for repeating uh what the director

00:19:13.060 of the cdc has said you know and so but the it is a fact that that you can get covid if you're taking

00:19:20.400 or if you've had the vaccine you can still get covid and not only that but you can transmit so

00:19:25.340 you can contract and you can transmit which means the whole idea of loving your neighbor right you're

00:19:30.360 not just getting the vaccine for self-preservation which that's always the way we thought about

00:19:33.620 vaccines is primarily it's self-preservation so that i don't get polio so that i don't get

00:19:37.840 smallpox but but it's not only self-preservation but the big pushing point from fauci and from

00:19:43.600 joe biden you know it's your american duty you know we need everybody to participate and pastors

00:19:48.840 pick up that talking point and wrap some christianese around it with loving your neighbor

00:19:52.700 But the reality is not only can you contract the virus still if you've had the vaccine, but you can also transmit it to others.

00:20:00.000 And so all of a sudden, I mean, if we're thinking about it logically, that entire talking point I feel like has disappeared.

00:20:07.120 I know you were speaking, but I wanted to throw that out there.

00:20:10.040 What do you think about that?

00:20:11.520 Yeah.

00:20:11.920 And so I think that undermines one of the two prongs supporting the entire rationale for the injections.

00:20:20.960 And the second prong, which has also been undermined, is the prong that says we need to use the injections to get to herd immunity.

00:20:30.480 Because now we know we cannot get to herd immunity with these drugs.

00:20:36.360 They will not do it.

00:20:38.180 Explain that.

00:20:38.780 How do we know that?

00:20:39.700 Explain that, please.

00:20:41.400 Well, for one thing, the reason that you just mentioned, the fact that you can still get and transmit the disease,

00:20:49.640 is one reason we can't get to herd immunity with the drugs right um with the polio vaccine

00:20:58.200 and the smallpox vaccine those are what are called sterilizing vaccines okay which means

00:21:04.020 they create an immunity in you you become sterile and visible to the virus the virus just goes right

00:21:12.420 by you it doesn't even see you anymore because you've been sterilized to it and that's why the

00:21:18.420 That's why you only take the measles vaccine when you're a kid.

00:21:21.700 You only need it once, right?

00:21:23.520 It lasts your whole life.

00:21:25.340 You become sterilized.

00:21:27.740 Well, other vaccines are called leaky, leaky vaccines.

00:21:32.320 The flu vaccine is a good example of a leaky vaccine.

00:21:35.460 It does not give you immunity to the flu, right?

00:21:38.460 Every year, you need to take a new one.

00:21:41.760 And it may not even work that well.

00:21:43.760 It might only reduce the symptoms a little bit.

00:21:46.080 It might not do anything.

00:21:48.420 OK, so the problem, there's a big problem with leaky vaccines.

00:21:55.740 Leaky vaccines are like antibiotics that don't work super well.

00:22:00.860 So if an antibiotic doesn't work really well, it's going to leave some bacteria in you.

00:22:05.840 And then what does that bacteria do?

00:22:08.140 It mutates.

00:22:09.960 It begins to evolve to get around the antibiotic.

00:22:13.880 And what do we get?

00:22:14.920 We get things called antibiotic resistant strains.

00:22:18.420 right? We've been hearing about this our whole lives, right? What do they tell us about taking

00:22:23.240 antibiotics? Don't do it unless you really need to. Why? Because it's going to create more

00:22:29.980 antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria, right? Viruses work exactly the same way.

00:22:37.980 So if you have a leaky vaccine, then what you're doing is the more you use that leaky vaccine,

00:22:45.240 just like overuse of antibiotics, overuse of a leaky vaccine will create more vaccine resistant

00:22:52.120 strains, not fewer. To get to herd immunity, you need a sterilizing vaccine like the polio vaccine

00:23:02.100 or the measles vaccine or the smallpox vaccine. Then you begin taking people out of the population 0.51

00:23:08.160 as they get vaccinated and the number of potential victims gets smaller and smaller until the virus

00:23:14.020 doesn't have anywhere to go and then you've got her immunity right real real quick question with

00:23:19.440 that for those who have natural immunity so my wife and i and our three daughters we all got

00:23:24.620 covid it was our christmas present uh last year we all got covid just a couple days after and you

00:23:29.960 know our our middle daughter it kind of surprised us because you know most kids it doesn't affect

00:23:34.000 them very much but our middle daughter you know she was really sick for for a couple days you

00:23:38.340 know, like the sickest that we've seen her, but still, you know, fine. She's healthy now. She's

00:23:43.840 fine. She got through it. You know, it was like a bad flu for her and me, my wife, we were fine.

00:23:47.880 And then our other two kids, like if we didn't have it and if we didn't see them, you know,

00:23:52.320 like have a drippy nose, like once we wouldn't even know that, you know, so anyways, we all got

00:23:57.860 it and, and we've been fine now, you know, and we've, we haven't gotten again. And I keep hearing

00:24:03.520 that, you know, it's anywhere from six times to 13 times more effective than the vaccine,

00:24:07.440 the natural immunity by having the virus my question though is um is that it does that

00:24:13.340 function though the same way that a leaky virus would function meaning by me having covid

00:24:18.260 could could i still contract it and and and have less symptoms because i've had covid before in a

00:24:27.160 way that would force the virus to mutate my question is those who are getting the vaccine

00:24:32.300 in some ways they're making it worse is what you're getting at it's it's not going to get us

00:24:36.620 to herd immunity, it's actually creating, it's fostering this environment to where the virus

00:24:42.120 is going to mutate, and there's going to be more mutations, and some may even be worse mutations.

00:24:47.260 But those who actually have natural immunity, are they doing the same thing to the virus,

00:24:51.660 causing it to mutate, like those who've received the vaccine? Or is there a difference?

00:24:56.220 No. The only way we're going to get through this is through natural immunity.

00:25:00.900 Okay. Could you explain that? Yeah. So folks who have recovered from COVID,

00:25:04.840 like your family has and like my family has. We had it in December too. And my kids kept getting

00:25:11.520 it, you know, in stages. So we wound up being in quarantine for a month. Every time another kid

00:25:18.240 would get it, we would have to reset the clock for two more weeks. Right. But folks who have

00:25:25.040 recovered, they do disappear from the potential pool of victims and they make the potential pool

00:25:32.360 remaining victims smaller and i read an article um just the other day and you know one of the

00:25:40.360 the main expert epidemiologists was saying that that the only way out of the pandemic

00:25:46.840 was to vaccinate people and for them then to get covid and so they can develop natural antibodies

00:25:55.160 right there was a project veritas video uh one of these exposés just the other day

00:26:00.920 where you had Pfizer scientists talking on camera.

00:26:03.800 They thought they were talking to a pretty girl

00:26:05.600 and she was recording it, right?

00:26:08.180 And he explained it perfectly, right?

00:26:11.000 He said the Pfizer vaccine only protects

00:26:14.600 against the spike protein,

00:26:16.180 which is just one tiny part of the virus.

00:26:19.420 Whereas your natural antibodies protect you

00:26:22.320 against the entire virus, spike proteins and all,

00:26:26.220 and the inside and the outside.

00:26:28.080 So your body recognizes any part of it. Whereas that these COVID injections only recognize that original wild form spike protein. And so the more that changes, the less effect those COVID injections have at all.

00:26:46.080 So we have a leaky vaccine that's actually creating more and worse variants, right?

00:26:52.820 And it's not sterilizing people.

00:26:54.700 So they're still passing it around.

00:26:57.920 But that's not all.

00:27:00.340 There's a whole nother big problem that like almost nobody ever talks about.

00:27:05.020 And it's a killer for herd immunity through animals, the animals.

00:27:10.580 I knew it.

00:27:13.180 So I read your article.

00:27:14.920 Well, it's the animal reservoirs, right? And what do we see? I just read, I reported in my blog today about the Smithsonian Zoo. Every one of their big cats tested positive for COVID last month. 100% of them, right?

00:27:31.100 Something like they tested white-tailed deer, which are in 49 states.

00:27:37.700 The only state you can't find a white-tailed deer in is in Alaska.

00:27:41.820 And so they captured, you know, these game animals and they tested them for COVID.

00:27:45.680 And guess what proportion of those white-tailed deer tested positive for COVID?

00:27:50.140 I don't know.

00:27:51.740 40%.

00:27:52.300 Wow.

00:27:54.100 Almost half.

00:27:56.480 Okay.

00:27:56.740 So as long as the virus can go out into the animals, it has a safe place to sit while

00:28:05.140 we're busy running around injecting everybody with these COVID injections.

00:28:09.120 So let's say that somehow we could inject every man, woman, and child on the planet

00:28:14.660 in one day, just get it all over with, right?

00:28:18.140 Joe Biden's, you know, fantasy, right?

00:28:21.120 99% injected.

00:28:23.240 well the animals would just give it right back to us because you can't vaccinate all those animals

00:28:31.140 and the reason you can't vaccinate the animals among other reasons is because they don't respond

00:28:35.760 to shaming or threats of loss of employment right right right

00:28:41.160 uh so herd immunity through covid injections is a myth and and i think that most experts are not

00:28:52.680 even arguing for that anymore. And you're you're even starting to see countries like, you know,

00:28:57.400 New Zealand recently said they're they've given up on COVID zero. They actually had a COVID zero

00:29:04.340 policy. Yeah, which was insane. Yes. And the reason they're having to give up on they don't

00:29:10.020 want to give up on it. But they don't have a therapy to get them to COVID zero. They can't

00:29:16.940 beat leaky vaccines and animal reservoirs. There's nothing they can do about that.

00:29:23.460 Right. Yeah. And Israel, arguably the most vaccinated nation on the planet,

00:29:31.240 it's, it's not, it's not ultimately stopping the virus. You may have less hospitalizations,

00:29:36.260 but at the end of the day, like it's, you still see massive spikes in the Delta variant and cases

00:29:42.900 and things like that and so it's not it seems as though the virus is not going away so the question

00:29:48.620 is how do we live with it in a way that would slow the virus down and and protect people from

00:29:54.740 those severe side effects that might end you know cause us to end up in the hospital or

00:30:00.440 or die you know and it sounds like like the way that you get there is by by getting the virus

00:30:09.060 Not by getting the jab, but by actually getting the virus. And for those who are vulnerable, we can still protect and isolate those who are incredibly vulnerable without having to bench our entire working class and completely destroy our economy.

00:30:28.040 But then also there are certain treatments, especially that anybody could, you know, most people could be able to use, but especially those who are vulnerable that are worried that if I got the virus, that I, you know, I might be one of the statistics that actually, you know, died from it. 0.94

00:30:45.620 Can you talk about some of those?

00:30:47.260 What are some of the treatments?

00:30:49.920 And why, again, I guess my question is just, again, what is the incentive?

00:30:53.480 why what like if if ivermectin you know for instance if if it really is helpful what benefit

00:31:01.920 what incentive does does joe biden and you know the democratic platform have in in suppressing

00:31:10.900 that news if it's true why would they why well so you're asking me to speculate about what's going

00:31:21.120 on inside their minds, which of course I have access to. Right. I think, you know, an easy,

00:31:28.140 obvious answer is that Ivermectin is currently off patent. It's available for about $3 a dose

00:31:36.560 and nobody's making any money from it. Right. And so the people who have their hands on the

00:31:44.260 levers of power right now, many of them also have financial stakes in, you know, pharmaceutical

00:31:50.620 companies and things like that now i'm not accusing anybody of anything i don't know

00:31:55.640 i have no way of knowing what what we can perceive though is it it seems irrational from the outside

00:32:03.020 and we also know they're not explaining why right they're you know when they call ivermectin a horse

00:32:09.480 dewormer that's that's insulting everybody who's listening we all know that that's the last thing

00:32:15.980 that it is it it just in 2015 they gave that drug which has been available since the 70s

00:32:21.900 in 2015 they gave it the nobel prize in medicine nobel prize right not for because of because of

00:32:28.660 the incredible benefit that that drug has produced for horses nobel prize right it was because of the

00:32:34.520 horses right they just love horses so much they're like let's give it a nobel no i'm just kidding

00:32:39.300 go ahead sorry yeah exactly and and I love your sarcastic sense of humor

00:32:45.380 and and so we can all see that nobody's nobody's being fooled by by these silly you know media 0.69

00:32:54.460 narratives and I don't think Joel I don't think those media narratives are for people like you

00:33:00.320 and me I think those are for the people who are terrified of COVID right and they need something

00:33:07.900 And they accept anything that the CDC says. The CDC is their source of truth, right? They call it the gold standard. And whatever the CDC says, no matter how many times it reverses itself, or, you know, the New York Times at times has had to debunk the CDC, like with the outdoor transmission thing, right?

00:33:28.060 The New York Times called them out on that. Right. And and NPR called them out on saying that the Delta variant was as transmissible as chickenpox.

00:33:39.440 It's not even close. Right. So the CDC can say all of these things that are, you know, factually inaccurate.

00:33:47.380 What do we what do we call people who say things that aren't true? False prophets, liars.

00:33:53.100 you said it i i didn't say so false witness yeah i could go on unreliable at best and but that 0.71

00:34:05.320 doesn't seem to bother half the population in this country no matter how many times the cdc

00:34:11.580 reverses direction gets caught saying something that isn't true intentionally or unintentionally

00:34:17.660 right if they did it unintentionally they're negligent that's not better right if you crash

00:34:24.300 into somebody in your car because you're not paying attention and kill them are you going to

00:34:28.380 walk away from it because it was an accident because you you know you just made a mistake 0.87

00:34:32.420 are you off the hook no of course not right and and so why is the cdc off the hook for being

00:34:39.740 negligent about the information that it's providing to us about the worst pandemic in

00:34:45.460 our lifetimes. Right. So, you know, you're, you're asking me, I think there's a bigger

00:34:52.100 answer to your, your question. And that is that I don't think we're really dealing with a medical

00:35:00.840 problem. I don't think we're dealing with a biological problem. I don't think we're dealing

00:35:05.640 with a scientific problem. I think what we're really dealing with is a spiritual problem.

00:35:11.100 i believe that there is a demonic spirit of fear that is suffocating the earth

00:35:19.380 and it is it is providing a strong delusion to a lot of people

00:35:26.200 right the people who are wearing double masks outside right now how do you explain that

00:35:35.540 and the politicians who are doing things that that everybody knows are irrational and don't

00:35:42.140 work. We know lockdowns don't work. We know lockdowns actually kill people in greater numbers

00:35:49.380 than COVID ever will. And yet they're still ordering lockdowns and still talking about

00:35:55.560 lockdowns. How is that possible? Right. It's because there is not rational thought that's

00:36:03.800 going on, it's a kind of possession. It's a possession by a spirit of fear. And the problem

00:36:13.620 is, you know, if only Joel, only we had some kind of organization, you know, some kind of maybe

00:36:20.420 worldwide network that was devoted to dealing with spiritual problems, you know, and we could

00:36:26.180 just somehow activate that organization to fight back. What if it closed down?

00:36:33.800 shouldn't have yes we need the church you're right we need the church i can't help but think of i i

00:36:41.820 think i can't remember if this was in your article jeff but hebrews 2 i believe it's verses 14 and

00:36:47.960 15 somewhere in there but hebrews chapter 2 where it says that speaking of christ it says that he

00:36:53.500 too partook of the same nature that he put on flesh and the likeness of man so that he ultimately so

00:37:01.640 that he could die, so that through his death, he might conquer him who has authority over death,

00:37:09.900 that is the devil, and free, it says, and free those who were held in lifelong slavery to the

00:37:18.000 fear of death. So Jesus took on flesh so that he could die, so that through his death, he could

00:37:23.220 conquer the one who has authority over death, the devil, and free lifelong slaves who the chains

00:37:32.220 that are binding them and holding them in this lifelong slavery is fear of death. And I read

00:37:39.380 that and I think, okay, yeah, that's a depiction of the pagan, the unbeliever, the person who does

00:37:45.520 not know and love Christ. But then when I'm witnessing this as a pastor in real time,

00:37:52.920 and I can see very little distinction

00:37:55.340 between believers and unbelievers

00:37:57.120 in terms of how afraid they are

00:37:58.880 and very little distinction

00:38:00.960 between talking heads with CNN

00:38:03.440 and talking heads pastors

00:38:07.900 who are now live streaming their churches,

00:38:11.200 then all of a sudden I'm just like,

00:38:13.860 is this even real?

00:38:16.360 Are we doing this or not?

00:38:19.240 Are we following Jesus?

00:38:20.320 are you know like because i thought it was for real i thought this whole jesus thing being a

00:38:25.340 christian you know i thought i thought this was real and it turns out i've been sorely mistaken

00:38:30.500 the last 18 months i've realized that you know for a lot of people it's just a game it's just

00:38:34.240 a religious social club they're not following jesus for real and you know that that doesn't

00:38:40.140 mean that some people might not be weak faith so that doesn't mean they're all false converts

00:38:44.640 there is such a thing as the weak convert right the smoldering wick the bruised reed

00:38:49.040 And Christ is tender and merciful towards them.

00:38:51.780 And so we don't need to just beat them all up.

00:38:53.620 But it is disheartening.

00:38:55.480 It is discouraging.

00:38:57.420 And we need pastors to, you don't just coddle the smoldering wick, right?

00:39:02.900 So you don't snuff it out, but you also don't leave it there either.

00:39:06.560 You blow on it and fan it into flame.

00:39:10.160 You know, you stir it up.

00:39:13.000 And yeah.

00:39:15.240 you remember that uh apocryphal story from the um you know uh the soviet communist era

00:39:25.040 and it goes like this it's uh you know a group of soldiers runs into a church

00:39:29.860 right that's packed for for a secret worship and they fling open the doors and they they

00:39:36.820 aim their guns at the congregation and they say anybody who doesn't want to be killed in two

00:39:42.320 minutes. You better get out. And so half the congregation runs out the door and they come in 0.93

00:39:48.840 and they close doors behind them and they lock the doors. And then they put their guns down and

00:39:53.700 go and kneel in front of the pastor and ask to pray and ask him to pray over them. And they said,

00:39:59.520 we just had to get all the fake Christians out of here. I've never heard that. Yeah, it's and I 0.99

00:40:08.920 didn't do it justice. So you'll have to look it up sometime that, you know, when somebody tells

00:40:13.020 the story better than me, it's even more convicting, but, um, what I've been telling

00:40:19.120 pastors and you, so you, you explain this to me. Okay. So when I, when I talk to the pastors,

00:40:24.780 I say, listen, pastors, you're my, you're my brothers. I love you. I have the greatest

00:40:29.980 respect for you. And you have a very difficult job. I said, but I am begging you if I have to

00:40:36.100 hear one more sermon about five takeaways from the book of Joshua and how to apply it to my marriage

00:40:42.680 when I'm looking around the church at people who are terrified they're going to lose their job

00:40:47.720 because they won't take this injection that they don't want or they're frantic because they're

00:40:52.640 sending their kids to a mask and they know it's causing their kids to grow anxiety disorders

00:40:57.420 right and they promised the kids that the kids wouldn't have to wear the masks anymore but then

00:41:01.680 the government put it back. And now they're having to break their promises to their kids.

00:41:06.120 And they're worried about that. I'm looking at grandparents whose kids won't let them come and

00:41:10.460 visit their grandkids because they're not vaccinated. Right. And you're up there telling

00:41:15.420 us about, you know, you know, six things to learn from Exodus 23. So when are you going to talk

00:41:22.420 about what's happening? These people are coming to you for spiritual comfort and guidance. And

00:41:29.540 you were talking to them about something completely unrelated they don't care anything

00:41:33.540 about right now right and well i have an answer for that i i know i i'm pretty sure i know exactly

00:41:41.020 what that is and it's something that i've been battling for for quite a while now but um it's

00:41:46.300 a long time ago in this nation at least a long time ago the church transitioned from christ being

00:41:54.960 lord of all to christ being lord of my heart it's a private lordship um that's that's jurisdiction

00:42:03.080 goes no further than the confines of your heart that's why every christian conference is on

00:42:07.900 marriage and parenting right it's always the home and beyond that the church and so

00:42:13.320 how to church growth conferences or or church health conferences or expositional preaching

00:42:20.080 conferences for pastors you know so there's you know which is good i'm an expositional preacher

00:42:24.740 I go through books of the Bible.

00:42:26.700 I don't think it's that,

00:42:29.120 because I could preach the heck out of Exodus 23

00:42:31.900 in a way that I think you, Jeff, would be like,

00:42:33.960 this is what people need to hear.

00:42:35.340 I don't think the problem is the text,

00:42:37.020 and I know you're not saying that.

00:42:38.360 The problem is application.

00:42:40.260 So what I always tell pastors is this.

00:42:41.560 I say good preaching is composed of three parts.

00:42:44.080 It's revelation, interpretation, application.

00:42:46.740 Revelation, the pastor doesn't come before the people

00:42:49.260 and say, I have a dream.

00:42:50.440 He doesn't say I have an idea or I have a strategy.

00:42:52.960 He says, I have a text.

00:42:54.280 So the revelation is the word of God.

00:42:57.020 It's the infallible revelation.

00:42:58.980 Now the pastor can mess it up on the next two steps.

00:43:02.220 So the revelation is good if he comes with a text.

00:43:04.880 But then there's interpretation.

00:43:06.200 That's a faithful exegesis.

00:43:07.720 What does God mean by this text?

00:43:09.800 What's the extracting the principles, the theological principles in the text?

00:43:14.480 Now the problem is a lot of faithful preachers in America, I think they stop right there.

00:43:18.640 But what happens is if you have a text and an interpretation, a good interpretation of the text,

00:43:23.220 All you've provided for your people on the Lord's Day is a 45 to 60-minute audible commentary, but not a sermon.

00:43:32.240 Because a sermon goes beyond just explaining the meaning of the text.

00:43:35.560 It gets from revelation, interpretation, to application.

00:43:38.740 It applies the text, and it applies the text as far as the bounds of Christ's lordship go, which is everywhere.

00:43:47.500 And so I think some guys, they'll say, here's the text, here's the meaning of the text.

00:43:50.780 And if they ever apply it at all, they apply it to home and church, home and church, marriage, parenting, pastors, leaders in the church, church membership, tithing to the church, right?

00:44:02.480 So serving the church, giving to the church, being involved in the church, and then being a good wife, being a good husband, being a good dad, being a good mother.

00:44:10.820 But they don't apply it beyond that.

00:44:12.300 And we've had this adage being said, you know, it's pretty old, it's ancient at this point, but that, you know, politics need to be out of the pulpit, you know?

00:44:20.780 But what I always tell people is the statement, Jesus is Lord, is the most political statement that's ever been made in the universe.

00:44:31.240 Christ is Lord.

00:44:32.740 And the reason why Christians in Rome were losing their lives, you know, when they were saying that Jesus is Lord, not Caesar, not Kaiser Curios, but Jesus being Lord,

00:44:46.120 they were losing their lives because Caesar didn't care.

00:44:49.200 He didn't care about gods.

00:44:51.660 There were tons of gods.

00:44:53.220 There were polytheists.

00:44:54.080 He didn't care about them.

00:44:55.160 The problem is that Christ, this god, claimed to be king. 0.92

00:44:58.440 That's the same reason Herod tried to kill all the babies.

00:45:01.280 That's the same reason.

00:45:02.180 The reason why political leaders are threatened is with a religion that has an application to every realm of life.

00:45:10.460 A civil application.

00:45:11.920 So yes, there is home in the church.

00:45:13.500 But there's an ecclesiastic application, a familial application, a political application, an economic application.

00:45:21.200 The Bible says something about economics.

00:45:23.620 The Bible says not just to give our money, but it also says how to build wealth and what's ethical and what's not ethical.

00:45:29.760 The Bible has something to say about all this.

00:45:32.120 To where, as a Christian, I can't.

00:45:35.380 When you think, well, you could vote for this candidate or that candidate.

00:45:38.520 No, you can't.

00:45:39.680 No, you can't.

00:45:40.260 No, the Bible is really clear.

00:45:42.840 It's not a 30-page pamphlet. It's a big book. It's 66 books. It's massive, and it has a lot to say

00:45:49.540 besides just Jesus being Lord of your precious little heart. So I would say the solution is

00:45:54.700 that pastors need to start getting into that third element of preaching, application, and

00:46:00.400 applying the gospel and applying God's law as well. God's law is not a means of salvation.

00:46:06.100 The gospel is the only means of salvation, but God's law is what the Christian does not to earn

00:46:11.080 salvation, but what the Christian does in gratitude for the free salvation they have in

00:46:16.180 Jesus Christ. And so we need to preach both law and gospel. And then we need to preach both God's

00:46:22.240 law and his gospel with an application to every arena of human society and human life. And that

00:46:30.620 includes the political sphere. And it includes whether or not parents or governments have the

00:46:35.540 right for for what gets injected in their children god god's word addresses that it does and and so

00:46:42.220 i i think it's that pastors have bought into this the politics and religion are separate i don't

00:46:47.440 want to lose my 501c3 we could talk about that i think that's that's an issue you know i don't

00:46:52.080 want to lose our 501c3 and we're really just the religious arm what man are you afraid of pastor

00:46:58.560 Right. Right. Yeah. That's the question. And so are you afraid of? Go ahead. Back to you.

00:47:06.360 Are you supposed to fear the man who can destroy the body? Or is there, I thought there was

00:47:11.020 somebody else that you were supposed to fear more than that. I, you know, I can't remember

00:47:14.140 right now. Uh, somebody, I think so it's, but it's much, much worse than this. So what I'm

00:47:22.600 telling you is that the preaching, it may be perfectly sound preaching for when you're not

00:47:30.440 in a pandemic with tremendous government tyrannical overreach. Okay. But that's not

00:47:35.740 where we are. We're in a pandemic with tremendous government tyrannical overreach. And how are we

00:47:40.820 supposed to respond as Christians to that? Who's going to tell us? Because the guy up in the pulpit

00:47:46.440 is not saying anything about it. He's pretending there is no pandemic. Right. Right. He's preaching

00:47:52.060 business as usual about marriage and the family and, you know, tithing, you know, being a servant

00:47:57.200 in the church and a servant leader and, you know, and all those recycled themes that you get over

00:48:01.960 and over and over again. And he's not talking about the pandemic. He's not talking about people

00:48:06.240 getting fired from their jobs. And what are we going to do? Everybody's worried because they

00:48:10.820 won't be able to go in the hospital if they're not vaccinated, right? Or their loved one is going to

00:48:16.600 get taken off the kidney transplant list. And what does the church have to say about that?

00:48:22.860 Right. Are we going to get together? Are we going to reach out to our brothers and sisters who are

00:48:27.060 being discriminated against and support them? Are we going to build parallel systems for them? Are

00:48:31.260 we going to bring our, our doctors and nurses who are, who are, you know, our brothers and sisters

00:48:35.500 in to help and set up a little field hospitals and things. I mean, what are we doing? Right.

00:48:40.600 And the pastor is just happily talking about, you know, ways to improve your marriage and, you know, be a better dad and think, and it's like, you want a recipe for making the church irrelevant.

00:48:57.160 That's the recipe on steroids.

00:49:00.120 Yeah, it's not relevant.

00:49:03.520 But it's even worse than that.

00:49:05.560 I wish I could say that was the worst part, but it's so much worse.

00:49:09.720 It's the heresies, right?

00:49:14.080 You mentioned one of them before.

00:49:16.200 Wear your mask because Jesus said to love your neighbor.

00:49:19.560 Right.

00:49:20.480 That's not sound theology.

00:49:23.320 No.

00:49:24.720 That's heretical theology, right?

00:49:27.020 That's some kind of workspace theology.

00:49:29.960 I don't even know what that is, and it's not good.

00:49:32.720 It's very, whatever it is, is incredibly unseemly.

00:49:36.060 And what about over and over and over again?

00:49:40.860 I've been in churches during COVID and I've heard the pastor say, well, we've had another tragedy.

00:49:47.660 Betty Sue, who's been in our church for 40 years, was 92, but was taken by COVID.

00:49:55.300 Right. And I'm like, what church is this again?

00:49:59.700 I thought I was in a Christian church.

00:50:02.900 Right. Death is not a tragedy.

00:50:05.320 Death is a door. And saying that she was taken by COVID, who's in charge? COVID? No, God is in charge. God took Betty Sue. We believe he's not confused or surprised or unaware of the COVID.

00:50:27.460 it's all part of the plan it's been written in history from the beginning he sees the whole

00:50:31.860 thing he's in control not covid what what kind of crazy heresy is that and how did it get in our

00:50:39.940 churches no you're right yeah betty sue was taken by god first and foremost in the ultimate sense

00:50:45.940 because he's sovereign over all things and betty sue was taken by by providentially god first and

00:50:52.140 foremost to the agency of time she was 92 you know people die you know like we don't want to

00:51:00.200 be cold or calloused or insensitive about that but people die and if this was i mean that that's

00:51:06.120 the thing it's like if if this was just you know like smallpox you know like if or or even like

00:51:12.320 the spanish flu 100 years ago and the way churches responded i mean you can look at this it's

00:51:16.400 documented you can see like the way that churches and christians and pastors responded 100 years ago

00:51:21.700 to the spanish flu which was not a respecter of persons this the spanish flu was taking out

00:51:27.420 uh teenagers and children um and and you look at the way church churches stopped meeting

00:51:33.100 like like the the majority of churches in america they stopped meeting for three weeks

00:51:37.740 and then they were back at it not because they had a vaccine not because they had a but but because

00:51:44.500 they figured out what it was they realized we're going to live with it um but if we got to live

00:51:50.280 with this with this disease let us let us not live without god you know so like and that's what

00:51:58.620 we've opted for is like all right so you got a bunch of people who still haven't come to terms

00:52:02.500 that we're just going to have to live with covet um so the bunch of people haven't come to terms

00:52:06.740 we're going to live with covet um and so what they've been content to do this and the church

00:52:10.840 had the choice it's like you can you can try to live without covet get to a point where there's

00:52:15.800 zero COVID, like New Zealand, which is just preposterous. And the only thing you have to

00:52:20.260 give up to get no COVID is to also have no God. And many Christians and many pastors were willing

00:52:27.640 to make, okay, I give up God to get rid of COVID? Okay. Whereas I'd rather live with God and live

00:52:34.220 with COVID. Life is always a risk. Every time we step out our door, there's a million different

00:52:38.840 things. He numbers our heads, the hair on our head. He knows the number of our days. He's

00:52:44.500 sovereign over all these things that doesn't mean we're going to be foolish or we want to be stupid 0.94

00:52:47.740 but what it does mean is that god is in control and and if you look throughout i i hated when

00:52:53.060 pastors i remember this too when they were misquoting you know like martin luther and guys

00:52:58.160 who live you know even charles spurgeon i think was colic and there were different things going

00:53:01.660 on in his day you know different diseases different plagues um and you know there were

00:53:06.200 quotes that said i'm not going to go somewhere unless i'm needed unless my presence is needed

00:53:09.780 because I don't want by accident to, you know, to harm my neighbor, to, you know, to spread the

00:53:16.340 virus. And those are true quotes by those men, but there are massive distinctions. Number one,

00:53:21.380 they weren't talking about the Lord's Day worship. They weren't talking about shutting down the

00:53:25.680 church. They were talking about going and visiting people who were vulnerable and ill in such a way

00:53:31.280 that you might inflict pain on them. And number two, and I hate to say it like this, but those

00:53:37.220 guys were making those quotes in the midst of serious illness. And a virus that primarily kills

00:53:48.080 80-year-olds is just not the same. Explain to me the Christian justification for what we've done

00:53:57.120 to the widows and orphans by putting them in solitary confinement, right, in their nursing

00:54:03.840 homes in their hospitals and not letting them see their relatives right while they die of depression

00:54:12.020 okay give me the christian case for that why isn't the pastor down there demanding to get into the

00:54:19.480 hospital what's the christian just loving your neighbor oh we don't want to scare our neighbors

00:54:26.300 because they think if we go in the hospital to visit these these elderly people then we're going

00:54:31.300 to spread the virus and they might get sick. Right. Meanwhile, they're literally dying in there. 1.00

00:54:38.500 Right. And where are the pastors saying one thing about it? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it justified?

00:54:46.680 Is it unjust? Should we change it? Should anybody even consider something different? You know,

00:54:51.640 should we take people and should we agree to take them into the church if they can't,

00:54:56.720 you know, get their, their, uh, the attention that they need in the hospital.

00:55:01.080 Should we be taking over? Where's the discussion, right? Where is,

00:55:05.880 what happened to the church? Where is it?

00:55:10.000 We were doing all these things in the first century.

00:55:13.060 We created the hospitals. That's right. Yeah.

00:55:18.140 So you, you put your finger on it, you know,

00:55:21.960 immediately we started talking about this and you said you were quoting,

00:55:25.840 quoting hebrews and you said that that christ came to earth and took human form to remove the fear of

00:55:31.040 death from man right but too many christians that i see are terrified of death you're right

00:55:40.040 yep you're absolutely right they're putting that mask on not not to save their neighbor because

00:55:45.440 they think it somehow protects them which is totally irrational right which isn't even a

00:55:49.620 rational thought which isn't christian right there right we believe in rationality but they're doing

00:55:54.920 it to protect themselves that's why you've got one person sitting in the pew wearing a mask

00:56:00.340 in in two regards they're protecting themselves in two regards they because they fear two things

00:56:05.320 you're right it's not to protect their neighbor's physical safety it's to protect themselves in some

00:56:11.040 cases to protect their own physical safety because they're afraid of death or it's to protect their

00:56:16.360 reputation because they're afraid of man so it's either the virtue right they're wearing it so

00:56:21.160 Some people are doing it because they're afraid of getting sick,

00:56:23.900 and it's back to what you're saying, the fear of death,

00:56:25.900 and that's a major problem.

00:56:27.480 And then others, they're not even wearing it for that reason.

00:56:30.680 They know.

00:56:31.480 They know it's irrational, and they know that it's not going to protect them,

00:56:34.440 and they know that they're fine.

00:56:35.760 They're a 30-year-old healthy person.

00:56:38.320 But for them, they're trying to protect their reputation.

00:56:40.820 They're trying to protect their image and what man says about them.

00:56:44.160 So was the fear of death or the fear of man,

00:56:47.820 I think those are the two really big ones that, sadly, we have seen that you would expect the church to be more resilient.

00:56:57.420 The church is made up of sinners, saved by grace, and so we have temptations also.

00:57:02.760 But still, you would expect the saving grace of Christ and his sanctifying power in the life of believers,

00:57:09.600 you would expect that group of people to be more resilient to the fear of death and the fear of man.

00:57:15.240 And sadly, I think we've seen that when it comes to the unbeliever and the believer, that it doesn't look like there is much distinction.

00:57:24.900 It's hard to tell the difference, isn't it?

00:57:27.200 And, you know, the most freeing thing that ever happened to me becoming a Christian is losing my fear of death.

00:57:34.940 Now, I'm not so hot about the idea of dying, right?

00:57:39.180 Right.

00:57:39.480 But I'm not afraid of death.

00:57:40.920 and uh how how liberating is that i mean you know it's just like there's nothing better than that

00:57:48.860 that's the most unbelievable gift that we could have possibly been given is not to have that

00:57:54.820 that fear and yet so many christians this pandemic has shown are terrified of dying they'll do

00:58:02.760 anything the government wants them to do if it just keeps them alive a little bit longer listen

00:58:06.940 I got bad news for them. They're going to die. It is appointed unto man wants to die. 0.98

00:58:12.180 That's right. Amen. Right. Then the judgment. Yeah. And then the judgment. And so what are 0.98

00:58:18.680 you clinging to Christian? Right. You, a couple more years, right. You you're aware you could

00:58:25.600 die in a car wreck tomorrow or have an embolism or, you know, God can take you any number of ways

00:58:30.960 anytime he wants, right. You're not going to cheat death by putting that mask on.

00:58:36.940 it's not going to happen. He'll take you when it's your time, whether it was COVID or something

00:58:42.140 else. I'm not a Calvinist, right? I am, but go ahead. I'll talk to my Calvinistic brother then

00:58:55.820 and say, you're not going to go jump off a cliff, right? Because that's not your destiny. That's

00:59:02.020 not what God's written out for your life, right? So saying, well, you know, I'm going to do it just

00:59:09.100 to be prudent and I don't want to be reckless. Well, you'll be reckless or you won't be reckless

00:59:13.140 depending on God's providential plan for your life. So this whole thing, I mean, I just don't

00:59:22.020 even get it. I just don't understand how we got here and why isn't the church fighting the spirit

00:59:28.240 the fear. There was a, I watched a YouTube video that was making the rounds in my little town of

00:59:34.260 Gainesville, Florida from Christ Community Church, who I probably shouldn't have named him, but I'm

00:59:39.200 going to do it anyways. And they had the local epidemiologist that advises the school board and

00:59:44.800 the county commission in there, right? And this guy's all, he's wrong more times than a stopped

00:59:51.260 clock, right? The stop clock is right twice a day. This guy's always right. He's always saying

00:59:56.140 cases are going to spike and then they go down right and then he you know and then he says it's

01:00:01.840 going to be a terrible dark winter and then you know it's nothing right we're not going to be

01:00:06.820 able to go to football games and then they pack the stadium and nothing it's going to be a super

01:00:10.740 spreader and then it's not a super spreader right i mean the guy's never right but and the pastor

01:00:16.120 turned over the pulpit to this guy for 30 minutes so he could preach fear

01:00:20.180 yeah what's going on why what what's the point of that you know is it is it to you think you're

01:00:33.580 like informing people to let this scientist who's always wrong and by the way all the guy says is

01:00:41.700 whatever the cdc says anyways right yeah he never contradicts the cdc so whenever the cdc changes

01:00:49.160 heat changes which raises a very good question what do we need him for yeah what do we need him

01:00:54.200 for and you know nobody contradicts the cdc more than the cdc oh that's a good one i'm going to use

01:01:02.300 that but no i yeah you're right it's like yeah the pastor is giving a fault it's a false prophet

01:01:08.240 but here's here's what's so interesting to me you know because i think about like jeremiah you know

01:01:12.640 the false prophets you know that prophesied peace peace when there is no peace and today we have

01:01:17.900 false prophets prophesying doom doom when when there is no doom um which which doesn't make

01:01:26.140 sense right so you read jeremiah and it makes sense that you know the prophets of god were

01:01:29.540 usually the ones who were prophesying doom that you know that you need to turn from you know from 0.81

01:01:34.920 the baals and the asherah poles and all of your wicked ways and your false gods and idol worship 0.82

01:01:40.560 to yahweh the one true god or judgment will come upon the land and it will be severe because god 0.97

01:01:46.960 is a jealous god it was this this prophecy of doom and that was the true prophet the one who

01:01:51.900 actually spoke for god and then the false prophets were the ones who would say peace peace prosperity

01:01:56.800 things are good and then it's it's funny because you know because it it seems easy to detect what

01:02:03.960 what the incentive might be for a false prophet to say that everything's fine um because they want

01:02:09.680 to continue their way of life um but but then in our day it's like the false prophets are the ones

01:02:15.880 who are saying you know they're the chicken littles who are saying the sky is falling

01:02:19.300 and it's not you know they're the boys who are crying wolf so the false prophets are the ones

01:02:24.280 who are saying doom and so you have to ask like then what what is the incentive and i can't help

01:02:29.860 but think that i think a lot of these false prophets there's only a few in actuality there's

01:02:35.640 only a handful everybody else is just is just echoes it's just ripples it's just you know what

01:02:41.620 mean it's just the people repeating but but the guys who are actually the false prophets

01:02:45.680 um it a false prophet is always going to prophesy false things that benefit him

01:02:52.580 and um whether it's it's it's positive things that are false that benefit him like peace peace

01:02:59.580 or whether it's negative things that are false that benefit him like doom doom um and and then

01:03:04.740 everybody else just repeats it for all of their ulterior motives because they actually believe it

01:03:09.280 and are afraid for their physical safety

01:03:11.580 or because they don't believe it,

01:03:13.920 but they're afraid of what people will think,

01:03:16.120 right, the fear of man.

01:03:16.880 So all these different things,

01:03:17.660 that's all the repeaters, you know.

01:03:20.180 But the initial guys, the source,

01:03:23.220 I think it's because never let a good crisis go to waste

01:03:27.140 because fear is, right?

01:03:31.860 So individual liberty, constitutional law,

01:03:34.080 like individual liberty, public safety.

01:03:36.540 Like how in the world do you get around?

01:03:38.180 we have a beautiful constitution how in the world do you get around the provisions for individual

01:03:44.500 liberty that are laid out you have you have to somehow talk the american people of supposedly

01:03:51.000 a freedom loving people the home of the the free and you know um the the land of the free and the

01:03:57.060 home of the brave right i don't know when we stopped being that but the land of the free and

01:04:01.400 the home of the brave you have to somehow talk these people brave free freedom loving people

01:04:05.480 to give up individual freedom to allow some leaders, some false prophets at the top to

01:04:11.300 have all this power and do their great reset. So what incentive can you give people

01:04:19.920 where they would actually cash in their precious freedoms? And I think the only thing that people

01:04:25.640 tend to be willing to make that trade for is public safety, individual freedom for public

01:04:31.080 safety and and so you have you have to have a crisis right climate crisis climate crisis climate

01:04:37.720 crisis you know and a lot of it's just like it's just not believable you know and and and then they

01:04:42.360 start trying to scare you more they you know as covid starts to wane it's like clockwork right

01:04:46.300 so when cases go down and they don't have as much talking points with that then it man let's look we

01:04:51.240 really need to talk about climate again you know climate crisis climate and and and they've realized

01:04:55.800 the climate thing doesn't do it for most people they just don't care right it's not an imminent

01:04:59.440 threat and so what do they do they always are bumping up the dates and and i think that's like

01:05:03.880 it's it's it's false prophets and they're putting dates they're putting numbers they're making

01:05:08.820 predictions and they don't come to pass and like what what do you do in the old testament with a

01:05:14.480 false prophet who says this is going to take place thus saith the lord and he's putting words in the

01:05:19.380 mouth of god and then and then it it you get to that point and it doesn't come to pass you you

01:05:25.180 don't listen to him anymore and yet we have people who it's like they're paid to to to conjure up

01:05:32.280 false prophecies like that that's what's so crazy about you're saying like he's always wrong and

01:05:37.520 then people are like this guy who's been he was wrong last month he was wrong about five things

01:05:42.000 this month he's wrong about 17 things um let's get him uh to speak at this next event it's like

01:05:48.380 the more they're wrong the more prestige they get like in what world right if you had a weatherman

01:05:53.920 on the news and he was wrong every single time like he would lose his job but that that's what

01:05:59.140 makes me think like we got to see the bigger picture that um it's not about getting the

01:06:04.960 prediction right it's about the doom it's selling the doom in order to get the power so they're not

01:06:12.420 looking for guys with with accurate predictions they're not looking for accurate profits they're

01:06:17.460 just looking for the scariest profits with the scariest prophecies so that everybody will hand

01:06:23.620 over their freedom with a little bit of time that they've got power both in the senate and in the

01:06:29.100 white house so they can cram through three trillion dollar packages with universal child

01:06:35.820 care for three-year-olds yeah i think that's it yeah but you know don't you feel like it's

01:06:42.740 something bigger than i mean you're you're attributing a very human um incentive to this

01:06:48.100 thing, right? Their desire for power and to build their legacy generational wealth at our expense

01:06:59.020 and reorder society with their great reset and things like that. But it just feels like

01:07:07.560 it's got to be more than that. So for example, we were talking before about natural immunity versus

01:07:15.140 uh injection immunity right how many post injection people do you know who have gotten infected

01:07:24.660 well i i don't really know hardly anybody who's gotten the injection

01:07:27.700 so oh well you're you're in a good spot then so i will tell you that most of us at this point you

01:07:34.420 can read this in the in the news right there's stories about breakthrough infections are all

01:07:38.500 all over the place. I know dozens of people who got COVID after getting the injections. Now,

01:07:46.800 how many people do you know that had COVID and then got reinfected?

01:07:54.680 None, right? I don't know any. And so everybody, whether you're, you know, whatever side of the

01:08:01.740 political spectrum that you're on, or whether you're jabbed or not jabbed or whatever, we're

01:08:05.340 all having the same experience in life right we're all seeing with our own eyes right with our own

01:08:11.180 our own friends and relatives the people who are getting the injections are getting sick and the

01:08:16.260 people who who had it are not getting sick right but it's not but all that experience that real

01:08:23.700 world experience is not moving the needle at all yeah okay and it puts you in mind and i'm not

01:08:31.780 I'm not an end timer. Okay. Or anything like that,

01:08:35.020 but it does put you in mind to that scripture from the book of revelations

01:08:38.440 about the strong delusion because these people seem to be deluded.

01:08:44.840 Right. It seemed they, they cannot think clearly.

01:08:49.500 They can't see what's in front of their own eyes.

01:08:52.140 They can't see that people aren't dropping like flies of this COVID.

01:08:58.080 Right. That's not their experience of life,

01:09:01.220 But yet they believe it when these people who are trying to control them with the doom that you were talking about, when they say it with words on a screen, and these people accept it as if it were revelation.

01:09:16.140 Yeah, I think we're getting at two different – because I completely agree with you.

01:09:21.520 I think the incentive, you know, my explanation that I was offering is saying, I think this makes sense of the false prophets themselves, this handful of guys up here.

01:09:31.880 And then what you're getting at is you're saying what you're so perplexed by is not, you're saying, okay, well, that could be the motive for these five guys and the incentive to cram through agenda, you know, power.

01:09:42.580 But I think what you've been so grieved by

01:09:45.760 Just as a follower of Jesus

01:09:47.160 And a defender of people's rights and freedoms

01:09:50.380 Is just

01:09:51.580 Why are these false prophets

01:09:54.060 I can see why they might say things falsely

01:09:56.680 Why is it working

01:09:58.120 On everyone

01:09:59.580 Why is everyone buying it

01:10:01.660 It seems like that's kind of what

01:10:03.420 And you're saying there's got to be something spiritual

01:10:05.560 There can be these

01:10:07.560 Human incentives and motives

01:10:09.380 With individuals at the top

01:10:11.320 Who are saying these things

01:10:12.320 and maybe coming up with the initial talking points,

01:10:15.240 but for everybody else who is listening

01:10:17.860 and it's directly contradicting their lived experience, right?

01:10:22.020 Because you know when there's the black plague

01:10:24.420 because you know one of the dead giveaways,

01:10:28.040 a guy named Doug Wilson said this,

01:10:29.340 I really enjoy him and his commentary,

01:10:32.000 especially throughout all the COVID stuff.

01:10:33.560 But he said, you know that it's bad

01:10:35.460 when you hear a bell ringing

01:10:37.300 and there's a guy walking down your street

01:10:39.000 saying, bring out your debt, right?

01:10:40.940 And I had the opportunity,

01:10:41.760 I was at a pastor's meeting recently, just like three weeks ago. And two of the guys, they were

01:10:46.460 lay elders. And so they weren't paid by the church. They weren't vocational pastors. They had a day

01:10:51.880 job. And their day job was each of them. It was really weird because there's only like 30 of us.

01:10:56.060 And there's two guys who each owned a funeral home in different cities. And so we talked to

01:11:03.580 them in the meeting. I didn't just talk to them afterwards. The guy who was leading the meeting

01:11:07.260 asked them to stand up and give their testimony over the last 18 months and they said yeah we

01:11:12.080 we were uh we were promised that business was going to be booming and and everyone's like so

01:11:17.560 how's it been and they're like same as every other year you know like this mini covid does

01:11:24.720 and magically we got rid of the flu turns out right where the flu go yeah you know so so you're

01:11:32.820 right so why why are people believing it where's the curiosity over where the flu went you're right

01:11:39.080 yeah that's the that's the thing you're right you know here we've solved it we've been working on

01:11:44.600 it our whole lives and now it's all nobody cared right yeah yeah nobody cared no you're absolutely

01:11:50.640 right so what so let's let's go ahead and wrap up but what do you think what so you know i'm

01:11:55.880 getting at the the power incentives for the guys who are maybe behind the levers but you're saying

01:12:00.140 but the fact that this is working, it's so easy to see through, and yet it's working on the masses

01:12:07.900 and on the Christian masses. It seems like that's your biggest concern, and I agree. That's a huge 0.99

01:12:15.140 concern. That's one of my big concerns as a pastor, and I preach against that, so I don't really have

01:12:20.160 that in my local church. My local church knows better because I've preached on this from the

01:12:24.440 pulpit and in podcasts like this. Once a week wasn't enough, so I've ramped it up and doing

01:12:29.140 other things. And so my sheep, they're Christ sheep, but the ones that I'm stewarding as a

01:12:33.860 local pastor, this is not their issue. But I still am concerned for so many Christians that I hear 0.68

01:12:37.880 about outside of my church. So what do you think, Jeff? What do you think is why are people falling

01:12:42.960 for it? Why aren't they curious? Why aren't they poking and pressing and questioning?

01:12:48.180 so our savior is three things right the way the something and the life what's the something

01:12:59.780 truth the truth where is truth today right is it in the media no is it from those five guys

01:13:12.860 right that are that are running every is it from joe biden or whoever's telling joe biden what to

01:13:20.200 say right yeah no right no where where is it is it in the minds of all these deluded people

01:13:27.800 no i've never seen anything like this in my entire life and i bet you haven't either

01:13:35.340 And I bet most of us haven't seen anything like this, this persistent, untruthful delusion that is antibiotic resistant, let's say, right?

01:13:49.780 If you've ever tried to sit down with someone and talk them out of it, what happens?

01:13:56.460 They don't listen, right?

01:13:58.060 you can't dig their heels in and become more convinced of you know of the other side and not

01:14:04.560 not because of logic but they're just like this emotional reaction yeah they they may become angry

01:14:11.460 with you right which is what happens listen to this clinical levels of paranoia that's how people

01:14:18.700 react when you try to convince them that their paranoid beliefs aren't reasonable then they can

01:14:26.080 they become hostile and angry. And so I believe to answer your question, what we're seeing is

01:14:35.120 an epidemic, a worldwide epidemic of mental illness, uncharacteristic of which is clinical

01:14:44.100 levels of paranoia, right? The vaccinated people believing that all the unvaccinated people are

01:14:51.020 out to get them. Right. That's, that's paranoia and schizophrenia. People who are suffering from 1.00

01:15:02.560 delusions and truth is irrelevant to them, right? A schizophrenic doesn't care what's true.

01:15:10.600 Yeah. They're not even looking for the truth, right? Their, their brain isn't working properly. 1.00

01:15:17.660 And so they've constructed a whole different reality for themselves.

01:15:22.620 And so to answer your question, unfortunately, because I'm an optimist, right, and I don't like to dwell on the negatives, but I think that what we have is a literal epidemic, right, not a COVID-style epidemic, a literal epidemic of mental illness like we have never seen before,

01:15:42.920 where huge numbers of the population are clinically paranoid

01:15:46.640 and possibly schizophrenic, high-functioning schizophrenics.

01:15:51.440 That's what I think.

01:15:53.280 Wow.

01:15:54.800 I've heard a lot of commentary on the pandemic,

01:15:59.640 Christians' responses, government responses.

01:16:02.420 That's the first time I've heard that,

01:16:04.700 and I think that that is really insightful.

01:16:08.320 I think, you know, I shouldn't be smiling.

01:16:11.260 I just, I just, it was so interesting and profound when you said it, you know, it kind

01:16:16.160 of caught me off guard, not, not because it was extreme, but because it, it really makes

01:16:22.060 a lot of sense, but I shouldn't be smiling because that's terrible news.

01:16:27.340 It's a very dangerous situation.

01:16:30.760 Yeah.

01:16:32.420 And so we need the church now more than ever.

01:16:34.840 We need the gospel of Jesus Christ.

01:16:36.820 we need pastors to be men to preach to care to love we need the church on sunday to be the church

01:16:45.240 and monday through saturday to get out of the four walls and to be the church and to fight for

01:16:50.500 people's rights and to go and visit the sick you know that what you were saying earlier was it was

01:16:54.880 it was good it was convicting even for me that not just producing content content's important but

01:17:01.800 but beyond just that uh jesus you know just reminded me when you're talking about you know

01:17:06.460 people dying alone because they can't be visited, widows and orphans. And I just thought of the

01:17:11.620 words of Jesus who said, you visited me when I was in prison. You cared for me when I was sick.

01:17:18.900 When I was naked, you clothed me. When did we do this for you? When you did it for the least of

01:17:24.480 these, my brothers. And yeah. Well, Jeff, thank you so much for coming on the show. I think you've

01:17:32.120 given me and our listeners i hope a lot to think about one more time where can my listeners find

01:17:38.600 your article because that's why that's why i reached out to you i read the article and and

01:17:42.420 not just me it was actually another another member of our church he read it he sent it to me and other

01:17:47.800 men in the church and he was like joel you you got to read this and you got to get this guy

01:17:52.960 on your show he like he's saying similar things to what you're saying but but he's got even more

01:18:00.080 more practical examples and substance and uh and that's what the article what the article helped

01:18:06.380 it helped me who was already speaking out against some of these things it helped to substantiate

01:18:11.400 more some of my arguments so people were already seeing things the way that you and i are

01:18:15.640 but need more that's what that your article did i think that's why it went viral it wasn't just

01:18:20.260 that it blew the lid off of something but it was written like you would expect a lawyer to write

01:18:25.200 something. It was just, it was very well articulated and substantiated. And so where can

01:18:30.700 our listeners find that? And then lastly, where can they find it? And how else can they, one more

01:18:35.420 time, your blog, how can they follow you? Yeah. Well, it's the same answer. So if they'll go to

01:18:40.760 my blog, which we have our own URL now, so it's www.coffeeandcovid, because you need your coffee

01:18:49.220 before you have to listen to the stuff about COVID, right?

01:18:52.200 Coffee and COVID.com.

01:18:54.520 And you can sign up for the daily newsletter

01:18:57.500 if you like what you have there,

01:19:00.060 but you can also go to the Faith in COVID tab

01:19:02.400 and then click under that.

01:19:04.580 And I've got some articles under there

01:19:05.960 and you will pretty quickly find,

01:19:07.980 because it's prominent,

01:19:10.320 what the church needs to know about COVID-19

01:19:14.000 and what to do about it.

01:19:16.160 For sure.

01:19:17.300 Well, Jeff Childers, thanks again so much for coming on the show.

01:19:20.460 And we'll see what God does in this crazy time that we're living in.

01:19:25.120 And maybe we'll get you back on sometime in the future.

01:19:27.500 Sounds great.

01:19:28.180 This was a pleasure.

01:19:29.220 I appreciate it.

01:19:30.040 Great.

01:19:30.840 All right.

01:19:31.300 God bless.

01:19:32.620 As a special thank you for your gift of any amount, we'll be happy to send you a free

01:19:36.620 digital book from our store.

01:19:37.980 To access this offer, visit rightresponseministries.com slash offer.

01:19:42.860 we highly recommend

01:19:44.500 Pastor Joel's book

01:19:45.460 Am I Truly Saved

01:19:46.660 if you or someone you know

01:19:48.140 has wrestled with doubts

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01:19:50.300 this would be a great resource

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The NXR Podcast - October 27, 2021

THEOLOGY APPLIED - Tyranny & Fear ｜ How Thoughtless Compliance Is Not Loving Your Neighbor

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