The NXR Podcast - THEOLOGY APPLIED - Wokeness Is On Its Last Leg, Now What？

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, real quick, before we get started,

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00:00:17.560 Thanks.

00:00:18.020 Hi, this is Pastor Joel Webman

00:00:19.160 with Right Response Ministries,

00:00:20.440 and you're listening to another episode

00:00:21.860 of our show called Theology Applied.

00:00:24.340 Today, I was privileged to have as a special guest,

00:00:27.220 Jared Longshore.

00:00:28.220 Jared Longshore was actually one of our very first guests when we launched this show all

00:00:32.300 the way back in, I believe, October of 2020, and here he is joining us once more.

00:00:38.960 Our topic, I believe, is very interesting and very pertinent.

00:00:42.580 What we talk about in this episode is this, the woke madness is coming to an end.

00:00:48.400 I truly believe that.

00:00:49.480 Jared believes that, that wokeness is on its last leg, that this particular lie from the

00:00:55.660 pit of hell is not going to last much longer. We see a shift in the culture from school board

00:01:00.940 meetings to politics. Even Democrats are pulling off of certain issues like defunding the police

00:01:06.640 and Nancy Pelosi kind of apologizing and retracting her previous statements. Wokeness is on its last

00:01:12.620 leg. The question though for the church moving forward is what's next and how do we navigate

00:01:18.400 as a church through this post-woke world? One of the great mercies of God throughout the woke

00:01:24.780 madness has been this. God has used this to rip the veil off of certain leaders in evangelicalism

00:01:32.040 showing us their true colors. But as all of a sudden the culture shifts and the church very

00:01:38.580 likely will follow suit, your opportunist in evangelicalism will run out in front of the

00:01:45.180 conservative parade and act as though they engineered it. It'll be difficult once more to

00:01:49.800 see who is truly faithfully following Christ and who is just pretending. These are all the issues

00:01:57.060 we address in today's exciting episode of Theology Apply. Real quick, before we get started, I've got

00:02:02.860 some exciting news to announce. I've got A.D. Robles and John Harris from Conversations That

00:02:09.040 Matter coming out for a whole weekend in the month of March to join up on a Friday. We're going to

00:02:15.900 come in our studio right here and all three of us are going to record a multiple part series

00:02:20.940 on some of the subject matter that you guys have requested that the three of us address

00:02:26.420 through our YouTube comments. Some of you have emailed, we're taking that into consideration

00:02:30.300 as well, but we're definitely looking at the YouTube comments. We've asked you guys, hey,

00:02:34.580 what are topics you want us to address? And so the three of us are going to record for several

00:02:39.320 hours a multiple part series in our studio right here in the great state of Texas in March. And

00:02:45.400 we're going to be releasing that content over the coming weeks now here's the other thing that's on

00:02:50.040 the friday that they're going to be in town but on the saturday we're going to hold a one-day

00:02:54.500 conference now that's going to be march 12th saturday march 12th it's going to be a one-day

00:03:00.420 conference where ad is going to do a session on practical obedient defiance how to resist civil

00:03:07.300 tyranny how to resist medical tyranny and how to do this in practical on the ground ways as

00:03:13.160 households, as head of households, husbands, fathers, how do we resist as a family against

00:03:19.140 the cancel culture and the tyranny and persecution that's coming to America? That's going to be AD 0.89

00:03:24.680 session. I'm going to do a session called debunking the boogeyman of Christian nationalism. 0.59

00:03:30.600 I'm going to kind of reveal the fallacies of the gospel coalition and all these kinds of things. 0.99

00:03:35.340 Oh, Christian nationalists, the greatest threat to America. I'm going to show why that's not 0.96

00:03:39.320 biblical and how that's not actually happening. And the irony that if anything, Russell Moore,

00:03:44.800 he's the type who is actually the Christian nationalist in a negative sense. And then John

00:03:49.200 Harris is going to do a session on social justice versus biblical justice. Again, that's social

00:03:54.520 justice and how it's completely opposed, completely opposite to biblical justice. And lastly, the three

00:04:02.060 of us are going to come up all together and spend a whole hour doing Q&A. We're going to take live

00:04:07.060 questions from the audience and address those questions. It's going to be a great time. You'll

00:04:12.080 get to meet John Harris. You'll get to meet A.D. Robles. You'll get to meet myself. So if you're

00:04:15.960 anywhere in the area, in Williamson County, or if you're in Austin, Texas, or you're north of

00:04:21.460 Williamson County, or to the west or to the east, and you want to come out and join us for that one

00:04:25.660 day conference, Saturday, March 12th, come on out. It's free registration. We're going to have some

00:04:32.260 refreshments free. Everything's free. So we're paying out of pocket as a ministry to make this

00:04:36.980 happened. We're covering the cost to fly out John and AD to put them up in a hotel. So you don't

00:04:42.120 have to pay a dime to show up and attend this. However, for anybody who wants to be generous and

00:04:47.940 help us offset these costs, you can do so donating towards this conference by simply going to

00:04:53.780 rightresponseministries.com slash donate. Again, that's rightresponseministries.com slash donate.

00:05:00.680 Now to find the address, physical location for the conference and exact times for each of the

00:05:06.000 sessions for that saturday march 12th again go to our website right response ministries.com

00:05:11.860 click on the menu button at the top and scroll down and you'll find conference click on conference

00:05:17.300 you'll find all the details that you need and one of the details there that we need is although

00:05:22.620 registration is free there's a form at the bottom that says rsvp we would really appreciate if you

00:05:29.260 could let us know whether or not you're coming and how many people you plan on bringing with you

00:05:34.720 If you've got 10 kids, God bless you for having 10 kids, but we would like to know that you're

00:05:39.380 bringing yourself, your wife, and your 10 kids. Please come, but please let us know so that we

00:05:44.200 can adequately prepare for this. The last thing that I'll say is that that Sunday, which would

00:05:49.740 be March 13th, for anybody who wants to join our church, Covenant Bible Church, John Harris will

00:05:56.060 stay in town. He's going to linger and he's going to preach that Sunday morning at our Lord's Day

00:06:00.620 worship service. That's 9.30 a.m. on Sunday, March 13th at my church that I pastor. Again,

00:06:07.620 that's Covenant Bible Church. We're in Georgetown, Texas. That's the Williamson County area. So if

00:06:12.940 you're in Williamson County or you're in North Austin or you're somewhere nearby and you don't

00:06:17.740 have a church home, if you've got a church home, go there. But if you don't have a church home,

00:06:21.820 you're looking for a church that has courage, that has biblical fidelity, and you want to hear

00:06:26.120 John Harris preach a dynamite sermon from the Word of God, then come and join us again Sunday,

00:06:32.300 March 13th. You can find details or directions to join our church that Sunday morning at

00:06:38.540 covenantbible.org. Our website for Covenant Bible Church is covenantbible.org. Without further ado,

00:06:46.360 let's go ahead and jump into our episode. Applying God's Word to every aspect of life.

00:06:51.620 This is Theology Applied.

00:06:56.120 All right, welcome to another episode of Theology Applied.

00:07:01.520 I'm your host, Pastor Joel Webin.

00:07:02.920 Today, I am very honored to have Jared Longshore joining us on the podcast.

00:07:08.340 Jared was one of our very first guests before anybody knew who we were.

00:07:11.600 So I think your first video got maybe, I don't know, 300 views or something like that.

00:07:15.080 And now we, you know, we average, you know, a couple thousand with each episode.

00:07:19.360 And so I'm honored to have you back on an episode that people actually watch.

00:07:22.780 Jared, thanks for coming on the show.

00:07:24.700 Yeah, happy to be here.

00:07:25.780 Back in the good old days.

00:07:27.020 Yeah, back in the good old days.

00:07:29.380 Yeah.

00:07:29.680 So, Jared, so, you know, things have changed.

00:07:34.080 You're, you know, God's doing a lot with you and your family and your theology and all those kinds of things.

00:07:38.600 But a lot of things have stayed the same.

00:07:40.160 You love the Lord.

00:07:41.360 A lot of your doctrine has remained the same.

00:07:43.100 And one of the things that you have always stood against, and I think really courageously and articulating these things really well, is the woke madness, the CRT, but then also COVID.

00:07:55.180 You know, it seems like those are the two big things, right?

00:07:56.980 It's CRT and COVID.

00:07:58.940 And it's not just a church conversation.

00:08:01.120 It's a national conversation.

00:08:03.240 You got, you know, for better or worse, and I, you know, I would argue better, but you

00:08:08.040 got Youngkin, you know, in Virginia that won that election and won it not on tax cuts

00:08:14.240 or, you know, your typical, you know, rhino Republican kind of thing, but he won it on

00:08:17.900 the culture war kind of stuff.

00:08:18.980 He wanted on the backs of moms, you know, at school board meetings and things like that, voting for him because they were concerned about the cultural issues of masking their kids in schools and teaching the white kids that they're racist, simply inherently by the color of their skin.

00:08:38.420 And it seems like, my point is, it seems like we're coming out of the woods on that.

00:08:43.220 Would you agree?

00:08:45.160 Yeah.

00:08:45.780 You know, I'm not the prophet nor the son of a prophet.

00:08:48.100 it. And especially when it becomes, you know, what's the nation going to do? I've whiffed a

00:08:54.080 number of times when I've made predictions, but it certainly seems like I would say the

00:08:58.720 evangelical world, a lot of the conservative evangelical world has really done kind of a

00:09:07.260 whack-a-mole on the woke, like it has been stamped out. I wrote a piece at Founders Ministries

00:09:13.960 called not woke is not enough. And, um, that was, uh, uh, I don't know. That was 2000. That was

00:09:22.260 late 2021, mid 2021, I think. But I remember I started to look and say, okay, there was a time,

00:09:30.160 um, when you could write a book called woke church, Eric Mason did that. Uh, Luke Duncan

00:09:34.600 writes, writes the forward or introduction, I think. And you could, you could write that book

00:09:39.060 and sell a lot of copies. And I realized you could write a book called Not Woke Church and you would

00:09:45.000 sell a lot of copies, like a lot. So people are very hungry for that. Now, the problem is that

00:09:51.360 doesn't mean that we're done with a pagan worldview that manifests itself in a pagan ethic, which would

00:09:58.540 be social justice and would be all of the COVID tyranny that happened. But what I've been trying

00:10:03.420 to do now for a while is help people to see the root. I go back all, I remember years ago now,

00:10:10.500 I was thinking, I was thinking conceptually about intersectionality, you know, this, this,

00:10:15.100 and I was, people are saying it's a new religion. And I was saying, okay, fine. But like, think

00:10:19.920 about the structure. Intersectionality is the, is the church growth strategy of the new religion,

00:10:26.380 right it's um he we will measure out um you know we will advance our cause with this system with

00:10:33.720 this with this particular ethic it's like the ethic of the new religion so there's something

00:10:37.360 my point is there's something behind it you know there's something that gives rise

00:10:40.820 to a social justice ethic and what is that and what is the idol behind it that's the thing

00:10:47.100 um here i think it's herbert schlossberg i would commend herbert schlossberg's book

00:10:51.560 um idols for destruction is the book it's a deeper like i read that and said here's a deeper

00:10:58.080 analysis of of the current moment so there is certainly a manifestation of chaos in our society

00:11:05.540 and then it began to weave its way into evangelical christianity no doubt and there are a lot of good

00:11:10.900 good men that have stood up and really said we're going to put a stop we're going to put a stop to

00:11:14.940 this. And they have. But I'm suspicious that even some of the good guys have some of the

00:11:22.600 pragmatism and some of the by any means necessary going on in their operation, maybe more than they

00:11:31.140 realize. And that never works. So that's not the way that's not the way God has wired up the world

00:11:37.920 for success and for dominion, you don't get to use the, the, the enemy's, you know, methods to

00:11:44.360 bring about, to bring about reformation. And so the problem is it will be external. So you'll cut

00:11:49.440 off the, you'll cut off the flower, you know, right at the top, but you didn't deal with those

00:11:55.040 roots. So you might get people to leave your particular denomination, you know, oh, Hey,

00:11:59.320 big victory. We got the, we got the people that were, were, were sketchy. They're now gone.

00:12:04.460 They're now, you know, with the liberal Anglicans or wherever they are. So, but, you know, how did you do that? How did you do that? I actually had guys that, you know, leading seminaries telling me that, you know, I talked to one guy who was a true believer.

00:12:22.900 He really thought we Christians could not adopt critical race theory and intersectionality,

00:12:29.620 but he thought there could be some kind of harmony, some kind of use of those ideas.

00:12:34.600 And he was really moving in that direction, teaching it.

00:12:37.100 He was a true believer in that sense.

00:12:38.560 I believe that we can partner and then not buy into the worldview, but actually get something good done in the world.

00:12:46.280 And there were a lot of guys that were partnered up with him.

00:12:48.400 And when when those who were speaking against the wokeness and against CRT, I spoke up, he told me straight up all the guys that were that were with me that were doing it when it was cool, have backed away from me.

00:13:04.900 Right. And and he was saying, I wasn't doing this because it was cool.

00:13:10.140 Right. He was an ideologue. He actually believed it. All the other guys were opportunists.

00:13:14.620 Exactly. And he and I like grew in respect for each other.

00:13:18.400 I said, well, I mean, we had more in common together within this other group.

00:13:22.940 I realized that, okay, they're really operating without principle.

00:13:28.960 Yeah, for them, it's just whatever's cool in the moment.

00:13:31.320 And I think that represents a lot more of where even conservative American evangelicalism is.

00:13:39.580 I agree.

00:13:40.680 We're all, you know, Rick Warren.

00:13:43.860 We're all Rick Warren.

00:13:45.920 It's just some people do it.

00:13:47.340 uh, they, they, they do it without, you know, looking like they're doing it, but they're

00:13:51.420 operating in that kind of church growth, pragmatic worldview.

00:13:56.120 Right.

00:13:56.600 So I think it's pragmatism.

00:13:57.800 You're right.

00:13:58.080 So I think it's at least two things.

00:13:59.280 I'm sure, I'm sure we can name 17, but two that first come to mind.

00:14:02.560 So one is pragmatism and, and to root that even deeper, you know, you're saying like,

00:14:05.980 well, what's the, what's the root?

00:14:07.640 We got to not just snip off, you know, the flower, but, but pull it up by the root.

00:14:11.220 Um, well, I, I think, you know, with pragmatism, uh, ultimately that comes by a denial of

00:14:16.360 the sufficiency of scripture. And so like you're saying, like there are guys who, who might join

00:14:20.380 you in, in, in fighting against one enemy, one particular enemy, but not actually the, the root

00:14:27.400 cause it's producing that enemy. So they, you know, somebody who just really doesn't like Goliath,

00:14:32.340 but, but will, will be a tolerant of, of his five brothers, you know? And, and so the, the next,

00:14:39.620 the next battle, then they may not be with you until again, it comes, becomes popular to,

00:14:44.360 take on that giant. And so pragmatism, I think comes from one of the roots there is the denial,

00:14:49.660 the sufficiency of scripture. And I find it really interesting that in the SBC, right? So it's like

00:14:54.320 you've got the old guard and we honor them and rightfully so for the ways that they, you know,

00:15:00.420 they fought in the trenches for inerrancy. But I think one of the, this is maybe a strong way

00:15:05.020 of saying it, but I think one of the reasons they were successful in winning the battle for

00:15:08.260 inerrancy is because the fine print, and I don't even, this may have even been subconscious for

00:15:12.740 them. I don't think they, they were intentionally meant to do this, but I think one of the reasons

00:15:17.020 why they could win on the front of inerrancy, um, is because, um, um, because, because it didn't

00:15:24.260 come along with sufficiency. And at the end of the day, it's completely fine because it poses

00:15:28.660 no threat in the world in any practical manner to believe that God's word is in fact, God's word.

00:15:34.580 It's infallible. It's true. It's, it's inerrant. Um, but, but if you, if you, in the very next

00:15:39.980 breath say, you know, in a hushed tone, yeah, God's word is his word. But don't worry, it doesn't

00:15:48.360 apply to anything outside of family, marriage, and the church. It doesn't apply to governments.

00:15:53.380 It doesn't apply to culture. So you win over here with inerrancy. And I think in part, the way you're

00:15:59.200 able to win with inerrancy is because if you give us inerrancy, we will forfeit sufficiency. And so

00:16:06.060 then then sufficiency has never been there not not in a widespread kind of thing and so uh with

00:16:10.940 the lack of believing scripture is sufficient for all of life in comes pragmatism and and then that

00:16:16.520 pragmatism um it will adopt any any um culturally relevant tactic in the moment that seems as though

00:16:25.340 it might accomplish the ends and and that's where the woke stuff comes from would you would you agree

00:16:29.800 with that assessment or you have some thoughts yeah absolutely have a lot of thoughts you said

00:16:34.280 a lot of good things. The sufficiency, take the sufficiency issue. And you mentioned SBC. So I'll

00:16:39.960 note here, you know, I was kind of born and raised in Southern Baptist Church. And I'm not there

00:16:45.340 anymore. Obviously, I'm not in that denomination or that convention of churches. But how I love

00:16:52.060 them. I've thought so often, I was just down at the church in Texas, leading a marriage conference

00:16:59.200 and would preach there. And I was reminded again, like just the lovely saints in that

00:17:05.480 massive, massive denomination. And there's certainly a battle going on there. And it's

00:17:12.800 the same battle, just in a different way that's going on more broadly with people that are

00:17:16.980 conservative that are getting caught up in this pragmatism you've mentioned that have affirmed

00:17:20.860 inerrancy. But as you said, there's an issue with sufficiency, but I would follow the trail. So

00:17:26.240 so the problem is all of these people are going to say they believe in the

00:17:29.900 sufficiency of scripture. So I believe in the sufficiency of scripture.

00:17:34.140 Okay. Well, but you're operating like Malcolm X, like what's going on,

00:17:39.820 what's going on there. And I think this dawned on me.

00:17:45.160 I was at the last Southern Baptist convention. We had a conference,

00:17:49.960 founders had a conference and I preached on, you know,

00:17:52.760 if Baal is God, serve him, and if the Lord is God, then serve him, then follow him, and then

00:17:59.820 related to that is, well, what happens if you're still talking about, you're using biblical 0.83

00:18:04.400 language about God, but you have made the mistake that Job made, right? God says, you thought I was

00:18:11.520 altogether like you. What's going on with that? I don't know if that's from Job. Same spirit in

00:18:18.140 Job. It might be from Job. It might be from one of the Old Testament prophets, but what is that?

00:18:21.960 You thought I was altogether like you. So sufficiency of scripture, whose word is it?

00:18:28.240 It's the word of God. But if you fall, if you begin to marinate with the culture around you

00:18:35.280 that I believe is thoroughly pagan or in moving that, manifesting that paganism now in our

00:18:41.420 civil society. And by pagan, I mean worship of the creature rather than worship of the creator.

00:18:46.760 Follow your heart.

00:18:47.880 You're God.

00:18:48.940 We're all God together.

00:18:50.120 Statism. 0.97

00:18:51.100 So if you have that going on, okay, but if the Christians begin to syncretize with that

00:18:56.260 idea, then God is not creator who is set apart from us, who is holy to be reverenced.

00:19:01.720 When his word comes to us, when the word of God comes to us, it is a word from outside

00:19:06.080 of creation.

00:19:07.880 Creation's down here.

00:19:09.220 Angels and ants and you and me and everything that has been made.

00:19:13.360 And up here is God, the creator-creature distinction, divide.

00:19:19.020 God is creator, and that word comes to us.

00:19:22.420 Therefore, my orientation to it is one of reverence. 0.82

00:19:25.660 This is the voice of the Lord breaks the cedars of Lebanon. 0.99

00:19:29.340 So it is sufficient, and it is other. 0.83

00:19:33.880 So there's a reverence for Scripture.

00:19:35.480 The problem is people are paying lip service to it.

00:19:37.420 I believe Scripture is sufficient.

00:19:39.240 But it's like they're receiving it as if God were like us.

00:19:44.020 As if we're common.

00:19:45.320 They're not trembling at the word.

00:19:48.660 Here's the one to whom I will look.

00:19:49.900 He who is humble and contrite and trembles at my word.

00:19:53.760 So it's like confessing this.

00:19:57.420 I believe in the inerrancy of Scripture.

00:19:58.980 I believe in the atonement.

00:19:59.840 I believe in the sufficiency of Scripture.

00:20:01.640 But as a whole, you're watching a community.

00:20:04.840 You're watching modern evangelicals not operate that way.

00:20:08.380 That's right.

00:20:08.700 And I think it is a deep, I think it's a worldview issue.

00:20:12.220 I think it's a way that people are oriented to the creator.

00:20:15.980 We need to know, we need to bow before him in reverence and believe that his word is

00:20:22.360 sufficient to bring about his purposes on earth, right?

00:20:25.720 That's what we're talking about.

00:20:27.620 And they've disassociated that.

00:20:29.180 So it's like his word is sufficient, you know, for me as an individual, my journey, my life,

00:20:33.820 but not to bring about the kingdom, not to bring about the work that needs to be done

00:20:38.120 hear right because they don't think god cares about that that's so everything you're saying so

00:20:41.860 first a higher view of god is the creator and the distinction between creator and creature but also

00:20:47.020 i was i was going to and you're you're bringing it up but that's what i was going to say is it's

00:20:50.460 also sufficient for what is the question sufficient for what is it sufficient for churchianity as joe

00:20:55.880 boot says or pietism you know a private lordship for individuals um you know that's one of the

00:21:01.960 things that joe boots have been so helpful for me is just seeing the distinction between um

00:21:05.700 the church as instituted the institution of the church and how the church grows uh versus the

00:21:11.740 kingdom of god and those being two separate things or or the the mission of the church as as the

00:21:17.220 institution of the church versus the mission of individual christians which you know the apostle

00:21:21.420 paul talks about you know uh people remaining in their station that that they they were in when

00:21:26.460 the lord called them so you've got a jailer you know or you've got a politician or you've got an

00:21:30.580 artist or you've got a teacher you've got you know and and all of a sudden they're converted

00:21:34.280 and then what does it look like for them now to follow Jesus?

00:21:37.640 Well, to fulfill the great commission,

00:21:38.920 it's not just to go and make disciples

00:21:40.380 and baptize them into the name of the triune God,

00:21:42.900 but it's also to teach others,

00:21:44.980 which implies that you yourself

00:21:46.280 are obeying all of Christ's commands.

00:21:48.080 So what does it look like to obey all of Christ's commands,

00:21:50.660 which is not just red letter, but the whole Bible?

00:21:53.660 What does it look like to obey all of Christ's commands

00:21:55.780 in this station of life?

00:21:57.380 What does it look like, not just for a mother and father,

00:22:00.000 but for a teacher, for an engineer, for this, for that,

00:22:03.880 for a government official. And so I think that's part of the issue is people who believe inerrancy

00:22:10.020 tip their hat to sufficiency, but then even those who agree with sufficiency, they would truly

00:22:15.400 believe in both inerrancy and sufficiency, that we still miss them on the question of sufficient

00:22:20.820 for what? I think they would say sufficient for salvation, sufficient for a healthy marriage,

00:22:26.200 Sufficient for parenting, sufficient for how to organize your church polity, but not sufficient for all of life.

00:22:36.720 And I would say that that's a big disconnect.

00:22:40.380 Yeah, yeah, you've got some, and this is why it's a worldview issue that's going on.

00:22:45.780 So the voice of the Lord is powerful and causes new birth for the individual, right?

00:22:53.440 Born again by the word.

00:22:54.460 And the voice of the Lord also causes the deer to give birth.

00:22:59.960 So I think a lot of, there's a lot of modern conservative evangelicals that fully get that, yeah, okay, the voice of the Lord is powerful for the new birth of an individual.

00:23:11.660 But they don't understand that it also causes the deer to give birth, and it breaks the cedars of Lebanon.

00:23:16.680 And so it actually, so what's happening is they're operating very spiritually in spiritual things.

00:23:24.460 But when it comes to these physical things, there's this –

00:23:28.700 Did you say spiritually or Gnostically?

00:23:30.720 I think you said.

00:23:32.240 Well, yeah, both.

00:23:33.900 This is why you can lay over so many. 0.99

00:23:36.280 I mean, it is Gnostic.

00:23:38.180 That's totally – and, of course, that's a – the problem is with Gnosticism,

00:23:41.820 there's going to be all kinds of good people.

00:23:43.300 They're going to say I'm not Gnostic at all, and I'm not – I wouldn't say that they are.

00:23:46.980 I'm not saying that you're a heretic.

00:23:48.880 There's just a, it's just a subtle latent sense that physical things are bad or that when we're in these physical, when we're doing these physical things, we begin to operate according to other standards. 0.60

00:24:00.800 You know, we don't realize how much of, you know, you don't realize you're being Canaanized, but it's like, this is what's going on here.

00:24:07.540 And the worldview doesn't work because we still have this, we still have this separation going on. 0.74

00:24:14.940 And again, there's distinction, but distinction is one thing and entirely separated.

00:24:20.020 Like, you know, I'm saved and I'm going to heaven.

00:24:23.800 But when it comes to trying to get good things done in the world, you know, I'm going to operate accordingly.

00:24:29.760 So I think I've said somewhere that, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of modern evangelicals that aren't sure about the advance of the kingdom of God in the world.

00:24:38.140 They don't know that that's that's actually guaranteed.

00:24:40.260 Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth.

00:24:42.180 But they sure do want good neighbors.

00:24:43.620 and so they they end up like operating to get the good neighbors in a way that's detached from their

00:24:51.140 christianity and from the word of god yep i completely agree so so i named the sbc as a

00:24:57.360 case study but but we both agree that this at a larger general level evangelicalism one of the

00:25:03.360 problems is um belief in inerrancy uh but merely a tip of the hat to sufficiency or they believe

00:25:09.700 the bible actually is sufficient but it's a truncated sufficiency it's sufficient for

00:25:13.440 the spiritual matters but not for uh practical matters so so one issue is um uh and not just

00:25:19.940 an sbc but evangelicalism across the board um holding to inerrancy but but a denial if not

00:25:25.760 uh outright or even conscious but still in in function a denial of sufficiency and that gives

00:25:31.860 birth to pragmatism and the pragmatism tempts the heart of men um to to take advantage of of um

00:25:39.180 unbiblical means to try to uh achieve uh biblical ends um i would say the other thing tempting the

00:25:45.920 heart of man because i said i think there are two and at least two another one would be so you got

00:25:50.100 pragmatism coming out of um a denial of sufficiency but you also have um you have the fear of man

00:25:57.160 so part of it's pragmatism but i think part of it is um is the fear of man that like i i have no

00:26:02.620 doubt that we're gonna have so many guys so many pastors so many politicians so like it's you know

00:26:07.280 i said it's not just the sbc it's evangelicalism but i i really do think it's it's the whole nation

00:26:11.140 um it's it's a national conversation i think we're going to have everybody and anybody coming

00:26:16.020 out of the woodwork um and and jumping in front of this parade you know um because everybody wants

00:26:22.440 to be on the right side of history um which which that that whole thing is a problem because what

00:26:27.660 we should be saying is is that we just want to be on god's side we want to hold to god's virtues

00:26:32.300 God's values, God's commandments. And we want to do so faithfully, regardless of how history pans

00:26:38.760 out. But everybody else, they just want to be on the right side of history. So as soon as they see

00:26:43.280 that a particular moment or a particular virtue is winning in terms of popularity, then you have

00:26:50.720 a bunch of people come out. So my point is COVID and critical race theory, COVID and critical race

00:26:54.860 theory. The last two years I've been grateful for, it's been hard, but I've been grateful for

00:26:59.380 in God's merciful providence, because if nothing else, God made it really, really clear who's on

00:27:05.020 what team, you know, like, like who's on what side of things. And my concern is that I think

00:27:12.060 that wokeism and mass mandates and vaccine, I think this is going to be very quickly a thing

00:27:18.620 of the past. I think, I think the tide is turning, like rushing in and, and, and, and critical race 0.91

00:27:24.400 theory and COVID are getting drowned because people have had enough. And I think conservatives

00:27:29.020 have won. The problem is though, then we go right back to where we were just a few years ago,

00:27:34.660 where you look around and you can't tell whose heart is really for the Lord and whose heart is

00:27:40.740 merely bowing to man. What do you think about that? Yeah. Well, the fear of man, I'll talk,

00:27:48.240 you mentioned two things. So a note about the fear of man. And then the second thing, what do we do

00:27:52.900 now that you know a lot of people are now anti-woke and how are you as a christian to know

00:28:00.100 like where you're supposed to be who am i supposed to be with now that maybe the dust has settled and

00:28:05.540 it seems like everybody's now standing on the right side at least as far as um conservative

00:28:09.880 right american christianity goes the fear of man is interesting saul's a case study you know he was

00:28:15.900 so afraid he he was afraid of david um you know the lady started to sing with her tambourines

00:28:21.160 Saul has slain his thousands and David his tens of thousands.

00:28:24.760 And he says, the text says multiple times that Saul feared David.

00:28:29.060 He feared him.

00:28:29.780 And then even at the end of his life, when he's going to the witch at Endor, he's afraid.

00:28:35.380 He's dreadfully afraid, but he keeps doing the wrong thing.

00:28:39.320 So it's an inescapable concept.

00:28:42.160 You either will fear God or you will fear man.

00:28:44.960 It's not whether but which.

00:28:46.560 And if you don't fear God, then you're going to fear everything.

00:28:48.860 And the fear is not going to help you at all because you're still going to, you're going to keep making the wrong decisions.

00:28:53.800 But you're doing that.

00:28:55.260 Saul's doing that because he is, he is operating as a pagan. 0.79

00:28:59.120 He's operating apart from God.

00:29:02.200 He's not thinking about God.

00:29:04.120 I mean, God told him, I'm going to tear the kingdom from you.

00:29:07.340 I'm going to give it to someone who's better than you.

00:29:08.700 We just told him straight up.

00:29:10.380 And so then he sees David and he's starting to put the pieces together.

00:29:14.400 Oh, David's the one, you know, who, who God is the one controlling David.

00:29:18.240 But God is one who just told you you should be fearing God, dealing with God.

00:29:21.800 He's not doing it. 0.96

00:29:23.520 I think that's what's going on in kind of pagan America. 0.54

00:29:28.180 So you have people that are watching what's going on around them.

00:29:32.440 And there's a tendency to be, you know, to be not just bombastic,

00:29:39.620 but defensive and then kind of shrill in the way that we're, you know,

00:29:44.680 you get people stirred up because here we are.

00:29:46.720 We're all being afraid of what's coming, you know, with the tyranny that's coming.

00:29:51.480 But if you're not dealing with God, then you're not going to be dealing with that situation correctly.

00:29:56.740 And so your point about the wokeness being gone, what's interesting, I go back and say, I don't know what's happening in the culture.

00:30:04.220 I'm not I'm not I'm not convinced that the I'm not entirely convinced that the wokeness is entirely gone.

00:30:09.580 It's certainly around in your universities.

00:30:10.960 Oh, I'm not saying it's gone.

00:30:13.120 It's a post-wokeness.

00:30:14.420 Right, but I'm not saying it's gone, but I think there are certain battles in the war that are pivotal and determine the outcome of the war. 0.66

00:30:21.900 And I think we've had some pivotal battles to where I feel confident enough to say that the wokeness isn't gone, but it will be gone.

00:30:31.860 I heard on the news just recently, Nancy Pelosi has talked about how bad the defund the police is.

00:30:41.260 Yeah, she pulled back and said, oh, public safety is our number one issue.

00:30:44.060 it's like that's not what you were saying it wasn't that long ago you know and so yeah people

00:30:49.060 i mean that like everyone's pulling back and and that's the whole thing when democrat politicians

00:30:53.080 are pulling back stepping back off of certain marxist you know uh talking points um it's

00:30:59.080 because right because if democrats are good at anything they're good at this you know licking

00:31:03.680 their fingers sticking it up in the wind and seeing you know what what you know what direction

00:31:06.760 it's blown so so i take that as as that's one of the things that i that why i have such confidence

00:31:11.660 that this thing is ending is because when Democrats start pulling off of certain issues,

00:31:16.900 that's because they realize this is not where the heart of America is anymore.

00:31:20.620 This issue will not win us elections.

00:31:24.280 And so I look at that.

00:31:26.360 That would be a prime example with Nancy Pelosi.

00:31:28.260 But there are several other ones just in the last couple of weeks.

00:31:30.780 I mean, states pulling off, even if Biden won't, states pulling off of mask mandates

00:31:36.180 and this and that because they realize this is not popular.

00:31:40.540 it so that's where i say like i don't just think it's conservative you know evangelicals i think

00:31:44.460 nationwide right now the whole nation is and not just the whole nation the world because i think a

00:31:48.920 lot of it has to do with canada and the truckers and so i think like the whole world and france

00:31:52.720 you know revolutions and protesting um and so i think like the whole world right now has finally

00:31:58.220 gotten enough visibility of of civil tyranny and cultural tyranny uh crt and wokeness um to where

00:32:05.900 everyone's like oh this i think it has been ousted uh the mask has been pulled off and has 0.95

00:32:10.540 been seen for the the ugly hypocritical monster that it actually is and so i think i think it's 0.97

00:32:16.720 uh it's like goliath has been slain and yeah we still got to chase down the philistines and chop 0.99

00:32:21.200 off all their heads but i i think the the outcome of the battle the battle is not done but the out

00:32:25.580 there's work to do but the the outcome is settled um but but for me that that that's the the issue

00:32:31.180 is I think the outcome is settled.

00:32:34.180 And if the Democrats know it,

00:32:36.260 then the gospel coalition knows it. 0.50

00:32:39.640 And they're going to start pulling off the issues too.

00:32:42.600 So how do we discern who is for us

00:32:46.240 and who's against us?

00:32:47.380 Who is for the Lord?

00:32:48.560 Yeah, so I would encourage Christians

00:32:50.780 all across the land to consider now

00:32:56.340 what is it going to look like

00:32:57.040 to actually live for the kingdom of God

00:32:59.780 and to see what a Christian community is actually going to look like. 0.98

00:33:03.900 What's it going to be like to actually build that, to rebuild the walls?

00:33:08.420 And there are certainly certain communities where they were great at defending.

00:33:17.880 They were fantastic at defending and striking down what needed to be struck down.

00:33:26.320 But what's it going to actually look like to build?

00:33:29.780 I wrote a piece, Reformation and Revivals, my blog, jaredrlongshore.com.

00:33:35.860 You can also find it on Canon Press.

00:33:39.200 We have a YouTube channel out.

00:33:40.800 You can find it there.

00:33:41.800 And then Canon Plus is an app that you can get where you can find it there.

00:33:46.540 It was a few weeks back, and I mentioned there's three types of Christian communities, 0.99

00:33:51.840 one being a separatist pietism that just wants to be done 0.95

00:33:54.320 and kind of out of the cultural chaos of our moment.

00:33:56.900 The second is defensive evangelicalism.

00:33:58.940 And I think that's where the majority of conservative evangelicals are.

00:34:03.600 And they can't stand the woke nonsense.

00:34:06.880 They want good neighbors, but they don't actually have an understanding of the kingdom of God,

00:34:11.300 where they're thinking about what it's going to look like when God answers yes to the Lord's prayer.

00:34:17.160 And how do we pursue that and not manufacture it?

00:34:21.760 We're not going to bring it in by any means necessary,

00:34:24.320 but we're going to depend upon the Lord and actually live wisely in the world.

00:34:27.480 And that's going to involve the Kuyperian vision. It's going to involve the lordship of Christ over all things. There are real wrongs out in the world, and those need to be rectified. And how are you going to do that? What is the role of the word of God and the law of God and its relationship to our society?

00:34:47.880 And then actually getting at it in their local context. I think, you know, we're out here in Moscow at Christ Church, and people are flocking here. It's remarkable. I mean, we've only been here for a few months.

00:35:00.660 and it's insane um because there are a lot of families that are looking around and saying oh i

00:35:06.840 i see it is christ or chaos and i actually they're they're making some connections with their life

00:35:12.940 and they're saying i i need to move my family to a place where there's a christian community where

00:35:18.140 there's classical christian education where there's a develop of cultural life where people

00:35:22.420 are actually public in their faith and vocation you know and it's not it's not christian bumper

00:35:27.860 sticker stuff um it's not you know the christian section at the library stuff but it's like oh

00:35:33.420 jesus rules over this whole library jesus rules over this whole the whole thing um so i i would

00:35:41.320 encourage people to find that community like now would be the time don't think that uh so one of

00:35:46.860 the problems is and you see this a lot um this was in the sbc and it's in a lot of denominations

00:35:52.300 they think the reformation is going to come from the top and so they they really we just get the

00:35:57.040 right man so in the political world that's your president that's our federalism that we're

00:36:00.460 infected with it's like we get the right man and that will that will fix our problems we get the

00:36:04.160 right president and that's gonna that's gonna have a this trickle down effect it's gonna impact

00:36:08.300 but that's not the way that's not the way it's going to work it's an inside out kind of thing

00:36:13.460 and it's going to be a bottom up kind of thing 11 it's left for you it's yeah oh for the for the

00:36:19.680 for the christians that are all like torqued up about what they're seeing in the world it starts

00:36:23.600 right there at your house like how are you speaking to your wife what are you doing with

00:36:28.700 your children there's a there's plenty of problems right there and as everyone gets going on those

00:36:35.880 all of a sudden it starts to manifest itself outside of the home in this community that's

00:36:42.240 certainly what's happening here and that people need to look for a community like that it certainly

00:36:48.380 seems to be the time i know you made a you made a move from california to texas right i think you

00:36:52.960 made that transition. And just to real quick advertise, you know, so Moscow, you know,

00:36:58.060 is growing by leaps and bounds because everybody wants to be a part of Doug's church and praise

00:37:01.200 God for that. But just so our listeners know, there are a couple other places, you know,

00:37:05.660 besides just Doug. And, you know, the testimony has been similar for us that, you know, we just

00:37:10.880 moved here December 2020. So the very end of 2020, and we were worshiping for three months

00:37:15.400 on the Lord's Day with other like-minded churches here in Texas, getting the lay of the land

00:37:19.000 in Georgetown, Texas. And then April, we started holding our Lord's Day gatherings in my home. So

00:37:25.140 we started with 15 people in April of 2021. And here we are now in February of 2022, and we

00:37:32.840 already have 85 people. And just two weeks ago, I had four men, and these aren't 20-year-old

00:37:39.020 single men, but four men in their late 30s with wives and children that they left behind in

00:37:45.140 California, but these four guys got on a plane and came and spent a weekend with me to scope out,

00:37:50.340 should we move our four households? And we've got two other guys that are talking about coming with

00:37:54.480 us. And same thing, they're like, we're going to go visit Moscow next. And so it's between Georgetown

00:38:00.640 with Joel, or it's going to be Doug and Moscow with you. And so my point is the whole, like

00:38:05.940 Christians are waking up to this and they're realizing exactly what you're saying is that

00:38:09.760 But the solution is not just here come the midterm elections and we need to vote better.

00:38:15.880 You do need to vote better.

00:38:17.320 But in addition to that, it's also we need a distinctly Christian church, distinctly Christian schools, and distinctly Christian households.

00:38:30.700 And we need to build.

00:38:32.280 It can't just be the wall of the fence.

00:38:34.280 We need to build.

00:38:35.240 And so who's building?

00:38:35.980 Where can we go where somebody is building that we can join them in that work?

00:38:39.760 back to you back to you yeah well no that's the beauty of it and it's it's a wonderful it's a

00:38:45.360 wonderful um life to live when you're actually producing that kind of fruit you know when you

00:38:51.020 be fruitful multiply fill the earth have dominion and uh that's going to be an interesting it's

00:38:56.760 going to be interesting uh year to 10 kind of in the wake of this uh cultural spasm that we went

00:39:04.580 through uh because there were there's a lot of good people doing a lot of good things and they're

00:39:09.320 getting the right kind of flack for defending against, um, what was going on. And the church

00:39:15.260 kind of got a taste of, of what we should have had a taste of for a long time. So I think we need

00:39:22.240 to be, we need to be living in such a way that we're being persecuted, right? All who seek to

00:39:28.760 live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. It's kind of like we weren't being

00:39:32.760 persecuted. And then CRTI came on the scene and the church spoke up about it. And then we suffered

00:39:38.940 some of that some of that um attack but we need to be doing that kind of thing um we need to be

00:39:45.940 having the dominion that god tells us to have which is going to result in that um that experience

00:39:51.160 even if the crti thing thing goes because there's a flourishing of the kingdom it was um it was an

00:39:58.180 it was anglican anglican bishop who once said anywhere the apostle paul went there was a riot

00:40:03.920 And anywhere I go, they serve tea. And that marks so much of our kind of pastoral ministry. It has, at least, in the United States. And you say, well, the crumbling of our civil order is very clear.

00:40:19.460 And so while the CRTI thing may be settled in conservative evangelicalism, we don't just need to look for another defensive fight, but we need to actually start seeing Christian community, Christian civilization flourish.

00:40:35.720 Amen.

00:40:36.500 Yeah, you're absolutely right.

00:40:38.580 I think that we should be persecuted.

00:40:40.440 I think one of the reasons why the church isn't persecuted,

00:40:42.240 and this should be received as a strong indictment to Christians, all of us, myself included.

00:40:49.020 But part of the reason we don't have a lot of persecution is because leaders,

00:40:54.700 the person who gets persecuted is the prophet, right?

00:40:58.420 Or you could liken that to say the thought leader.

00:41:01.100 Or you could say in a word, the person who's first.

00:41:05.260 right? The person who's first, right? Like the flying V, the geese, you know, the one who's

00:41:10.740 flying point, he's the one who's breaking the wind. He's receiving the most resistance.

00:41:14.880 And part of the reason why I would say even over the last two years, the church still received,

00:41:19.420 I would argue, somewhat little resistance. I know some guys, you know, in evangelicalism

00:41:24.580 came out, you know, real early. Michael O'Fallon, I think he deserves some props. He came out real

00:41:30.260 early against CRT, you know, and those kinds of things. And there's some other guys who joined

00:41:33.600 and receive some serious resistance.

00:41:36.540 But part of the reason I think we're winning right now

00:41:38.280 and I can rail on CRT and wokeism

00:41:43.460 and what it amounts to for me.

00:41:46.460 And sure, there's some people who don't like me,

00:41:47.720 but what it amounts to for me,

00:41:49.180 like just being painfully honest,

00:41:50.840 is my church growing from 15 to 85 people,

00:41:53.640 my YouTube page growing, getting more views,

00:41:56.220 more subscriptions, more donations, more this, more that.

00:41:58.600 Meaning I'm actually, my courageous stand,

00:42:01.720 and I still think it's the right thing to do

00:42:03.000 and by God's grace, I do think it comes from a place of Christian courage. But I have to be

00:42:06.980 honest and admit that it's being rewarded, which means what? I think what that means is that it

00:42:12.640 means that I'm not the front bird in the flying beast. Somebody else got blasted and I'm pulling

00:42:20.360 up the rear after they've already paved the way and reaping the rewards. And I think at a larger

00:42:26.780 level, not just Joel Webin or Jared Longshore, but at a larger level for the church in America,

00:42:31.480 Sadly, I think that, yeah,

00:42:33.480 some Christian guys stood up and did some great work, 1.00

00:42:35.400 but I think that some Christians 0.99

00:42:39.360 are holding onto the coattails of the Daily Wire

00:42:42.120 and Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan

00:42:46.780 and the list goes on and on, the Blaze Network

00:42:49.400 and Tucker Carlson.

00:42:52.080 And I can name so many people

00:42:55.020 who I would argue exercised more courage,

00:42:58.600 uh took more hits um really started uh tipping uh really caused the tipping point and the turn

00:43:06.080 of the tide and then and then some evangelicals we quickly got behind it and uh you know christians

00:43:11.980 really courageous yeah and well that's and that's that's the way it has always been it's sad man

00:43:18.920 christian when was the last time christians actually led the culture well well my point

00:43:24.460 is like that uh if you look at the different you know different movements this is what's going this

00:43:29.180 is what happens so some people have to have to die on the hill and then you end up taking the hill

00:43:34.040 you know um and so the the point would be is there there's more hills to be taken um and uh that that

00:43:42.260 is i think that's what really this has been all about find find what that is again which is not

00:43:47.620 it's going to involve defense but it's not only going to involve defense there's actually going

00:43:51.660 to be. What would God have us do here as we pray your will be done, your kingdom come on earth as

00:43:58.160 it is in heaven? Amen. Yeah, Christians should, it's funny, we have conservatives and progressives,

00:44:03.340 but really, we've got three categories. We've got regressives, which the political progressives

00:44:10.800 are actually regressives. They want to regress. They want to go backwards. And then you've got

00:44:15.800 conservatives, which I would argue are liberals. They're just late liberals. They're liberals just

00:44:21.140 they're just moving a little bit slower in the wrong direction and then you have the true

00:44:25.120 progressives which should be christians meaning the christians it's not just a defensive posture

00:44:29.900 like you're saying it should be a progressive posture of of um we are we are kings and priests

00:44:35.240 and we're we're inheriting the land and and i think that again that gets to your theology and

00:44:39.940 those kind of things but like are are we you know is it jeremiah 27 is it um are are we exile are

00:44:46.700 we in exile and, and you know, just going along to get along, you know, for a little while until

00:44:52.140 the Lord brings us home or, or are we, are we more likened to Jeremiah or are we more likened

00:44:57.860 to, to Joshua? You know, are we, are we taking over the land or, or are we just, just living in

00:45:04.520 the land for a while until the Lord brings us home? And, and, cause if you're just living in

00:45:08.640 the land, then yeah, you're be a conservative and build up some walls to protect just you and your

00:45:12.280 children from being influenced by pagans. But if our mission is that the Lord's prayer, like you

00:45:20.320 said, the Lord's will be done on earth as it is in heaven, or the Great Commission, and we actually

00:45:25.920 think it might work, that the gates of hell will not withstand against the battering ram of the

00:45:30.900 church and that Christ will build his church. If we actually believe that, then Christians should 1.00

00:45:35.920 be the true progressives. We're not conservatives. We are progressives taking hills and pushing the 0.96

00:45:42.980 ball forward. God's will, his kingdom here on earth as it is in heaven. So you've got the

00:45:47.860 regressives, that's your leftist progressives are actually regressives. Then you've got your

00:45:53.220 conservatives who are actually just regressing more slowly. And then you should have Christians, 0.99

00:45:58.660 the true progressives who are moving forward. And sadly, often we're not. And I think a lot of it

00:46:03.100 is because of our eschatology, but a lot of it also comes down to really just what we view,

00:46:08.140 what is the kingdom of God, you know, and is it just surviving or is it thriving? So any final

00:46:15.540 thoughts for this topic? No, thanks for having me on. And God bless Texas down there, man. It's a

00:46:23.440 little warmer than it is up here. Yeah, we can't all be quite as conservative as Idaho, but

00:46:28.740 But there's some guys in Texas who are trying.

00:46:31.380 Pray for our elections coming up.

00:46:33.780 We'll see what happens.

00:46:34.900 So we'll be praying for you too.

00:46:37.060 All right.

00:46:37.780 Thanks for having me on.

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The NXR Podcast - February 22, 2022

THEOLOGY APPLIED - Wokeness Is On Its Last Leg, Now What？

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