00:07:41.360A lot of your doctrine has remained the same.
00:07:43.100And one of the things that you have always stood against, and I think really courageously and articulating these things really well, is the woke madness, the CRT, but then also COVID.
00:07:55.180You know, it seems like those are the two big things, right?
00:08:18.980He wanted on the backs of moms, you know, at school board meetings and things like that, voting for him because they were concerned about the cultural issues of masking their kids in schools and teaching the white kids that they're racist, simply inherently by the color of their skin.
00:08:38.420And it seems like, my point is, it seems like we're coming out of the woods on that.
00:08:45.780You know, I'm not the prophet nor the son of a prophet.
00:08:48.100it. And especially when it becomes, you know, what's the nation going to do? I've whiffed a
00:08:54.080number of times when I've made predictions, but it certainly seems like I would say the
00:08:58.720evangelical world, a lot of the conservative evangelical world has really done kind of a
00:09:07.260whack-a-mole on the woke, like it has been stamped out. I wrote a piece at Founders Ministries
00:09:13.960called not woke is not enough. And, um, that was, uh, uh, I don't know. That was 2000. That was
00:09:22.260late 2021, mid 2021, I think. But I remember I started to look and say, okay, there was a time,
00:09:30.160um, when you could write a book called woke church, Eric Mason did that. Uh, Luke Duncan
00:09:34.600writes, writes the forward or introduction, I think. And you could, you could write that book
00:09:39.060and sell a lot of copies. And I realized you could write a book called Not Woke Church and you would
00:09:45.000sell a lot of copies, like a lot. So people are very hungry for that. Now, the problem is that
00:09:51.360doesn't mean that we're done with a pagan worldview that manifests itself in a pagan ethic, which would
00:09:58.540be social justice and would be all of the COVID tyranny that happened. But what I've been trying
00:10:03.420to do now for a while is help people to see the root. I go back all, I remember years ago now,
00:10:10.500I was thinking, I was thinking conceptually about intersectionality, you know, this, this,
00:10:15.100and I was, people are saying it's a new religion. And I was saying, okay, fine. But like, think
00:10:19.920about the structure. Intersectionality is the, is the church growth strategy of the new religion,
00:10:26.380right it's um he we will measure out um you know we will advance our cause with this system with
00:10:33.720this with this particular ethic it's like the ethic of the new religion so there's something
00:10:37.360my point is there's something behind it you know there's something that gives rise
00:10:40.820to a social justice ethic and what is that and what is the idol behind it that's the thing
00:10:47.100um here i think it's herbert schlossberg i would commend herbert schlossberg's book
00:10:51.560um idols for destruction is the book it's a deeper like i read that and said here's a deeper
00:10:58.080analysis of of the current moment so there is certainly a manifestation of chaos in our society
00:11:05.540and then it began to weave its way into evangelical christianity no doubt and there are a lot of good
00:11:10.900good men that have stood up and really said we're going to put a stop we're going to put a stop to
00:11:14.940this. And they have. But I'm suspicious that even some of the good guys have some of the
00:11:22.600pragmatism and some of the by any means necessary going on in their operation, maybe more than they
00:11:31.140realize. And that never works. So that's not the way that's not the way God has wired up the world
00:11:37.920for success and for dominion, you don't get to use the, the, the enemy's, you know, methods to
00:11:44.360bring about, to bring about reformation. And so the problem is it will be external. So you'll cut
00:11:49.440off the, you'll cut off the flower, you know, right at the top, but you didn't deal with those
00:11:55.040roots. So you might get people to leave your particular denomination, you know, oh, Hey,
00:11:59.320big victory. We got the, we got the people that were, were, were sketchy. They're now gone.
00:12:04.460They're now, you know, with the liberal Anglicans or wherever they are. So, but, you know, how did you do that? How did you do that? I actually had guys that, you know, leading seminaries telling me that, you know, I talked to one guy who was a true believer.
00:12:22.900He really thought we Christians could not adopt critical race theory and intersectionality,
00:12:29.620but he thought there could be some kind of harmony, some kind of use of those ideas.
00:12:34.600And he was really moving in that direction, teaching it.
00:12:38.560I believe that we can partner and then not buy into the worldview, but actually get something good done in the world.
00:12:46.280And there were a lot of guys that were partnered up with him.
00:12:48.400And when when those who were speaking against the wokeness and against CRT, I spoke up, he told me straight up all the guys that were that were with me that were doing it when it was cool, have backed away from me.
00:13:04.900Right. And and he was saying, I wasn't doing this because it was cool.
00:13:10.140Right. He was an ideologue. He actually believed it. All the other guys were opportunists.
00:13:14.620Exactly. And he and I like grew in respect for each other.
00:13:18.400I said, well, I mean, we had more in common together within this other group.
00:13:22.940I realized that, okay, they're really operating without principle.
00:13:28.960Yeah, for them, it's just whatever's cool in the moment.
00:13:31.320And I think that represents a lot more of where even conservative American evangelicalism is.
00:22:54.460And the voice of the Lord also causes the deer to give birth.
00:22:59.960So I think a lot of, there's a lot of modern conservative evangelicals that fully get that, yeah, okay, the voice of the Lord is powerful for the new birth of an individual.
00:23:11.660But they don't understand that it also causes the deer to give birth, and it breaks the cedars of Lebanon.
00:23:16.680And so it actually, so what's happening is they're operating very spiritually in spiritual things.
00:23:24.460But when it comes to these physical things, there's this –
00:23:28.700Did you say spiritually or Gnostically?
00:23:48.880There's just a, it's just a subtle latent sense that physical things are bad or that when we're in these physical, when we're doing these physical things, we begin to operate according to other standards.0.60
00:24:00.800You know, we don't realize how much of, you know, you don't realize you're being Canaanized, but it's like, this is what's going on here.
00:24:07.540And the worldview doesn't work because we still have this, we still have this separation going on.0.74
00:24:14.940And again, there's distinction, but distinction is one thing and entirely separated.
00:24:20.020Like, you know, I'm saved and I'm going to heaven.
00:24:23.800But when it comes to trying to get good things done in the world, you know, I'm going to operate accordingly.
00:24:29.760So I think I've said somewhere that, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of modern evangelicals that aren't sure about the advance of the kingdom of God in the world.
00:24:38.140They don't know that that's that's actually guaranteed.
00:24:40.260Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth.
00:30:14.420Right, but I'm not saying it's gone, but I think there are certain battles in the war that are pivotal and determine the outcome of the war.0.66
00:30:21.900And I think we've had some pivotal battles to where I feel confident enough to say that the wokeness isn't gone, but it will be gone.
00:30:31.860I heard on the news just recently, Nancy Pelosi has talked about how bad the defund the police is.
00:30:41.260Yeah, she pulled back and said, oh, public safety is our number one issue.
00:30:44.060it's like that's not what you were saying it wasn't that long ago you know and so yeah people
00:30:49.060i mean that like everyone's pulling back and and that's the whole thing when democrat politicians
00:30:53.080are pulling back stepping back off of certain marxist you know uh talking points um it's
00:30:59.080because right because if democrats are good at anything they're good at this you know licking
00:31:03.680their fingers sticking it up in the wind and seeing you know what what you know what direction
00:31:06.760it's blown so so i take that as as that's one of the things that i that why i have such confidence
00:31:11.660that this thing is ending is because when Democrats start pulling off of certain issues,
00:31:16.900that's because they realize this is not where the heart of America is anymore.
00:33:41.800And then Canon Plus is an app that you can get where you can find it there.
00:33:46.540It was a few weeks back, and I mentioned there's three types of Christian communities,0.99
00:33:51.840one being a separatist pietism that just wants to be done0.95
00:33:54.320and kind of out of the cultural chaos of our moment.
00:33:56.900The second is defensive evangelicalism.
00:33:58.940And I think that's where the majority of conservative evangelicals are.
00:34:03.600And they can't stand the woke nonsense.
00:34:06.880They want good neighbors, but they don't actually have an understanding of the kingdom of God,
00:34:11.300where they're thinking about what it's going to look like when God answers yes to the Lord's prayer.
00:34:17.160And how do we pursue that and not manufacture it?
00:34:21.760We're not going to bring it in by any means necessary,
00:34:24.320but we're going to depend upon the Lord and actually live wisely in the world.
00:34:27.480And that's going to involve the Kuyperian vision. It's going to involve the lordship of Christ over all things. There are real wrongs out in the world, and those need to be rectified. And how are you going to do that? What is the role of the word of God and the law of God and its relationship to our society?
00:34:47.880And then actually getting at it in their local context. I think, you know, we're out here in Moscow at Christ Church, and people are flocking here. It's remarkable. I mean, we've only been here for a few months.
00:35:00.660and it's insane um because there are a lot of families that are looking around and saying oh i
00:35:06.840i see it is christ or chaos and i actually they're they're making some connections with their life
00:35:12.940and they're saying i i need to move my family to a place where there's a christian community where
00:35:18.140there's classical christian education where there's a develop of cultural life where people
00:35:22.420are actually public in their faith and vocation you know and it's not it's not christian bumper
00:35:27.860sticker stuff um it's not you know the christian section at the library stuff but it's like oh
00:35:33.420jesus rules over this whole library jesus rules over this whole the whole thing um so i i would
00:35:41.320encourage people to find that community like now would be the time don't think that uh so one of
00:35:46.860the problems is and you see this a lot um this was in the sbc and it's in a lot of denominations
00:35:52.300they think the reformation is going to come from the top and so they they really we just get the
00:35:57.040right man so in the political world that's your president that's our federalism that we're
00:36:00.460infected with it's like we get the right man and that will that will fix our problems we get the
00:36:04.160right president and that's gonna that's gonna have a this trickle down effect it's gonna impact
00:36:08.300but that's not the way that's not the way it's going to work it's an inside out kind of thing
00:36:13.460and it's going to be a bottom up kind of thing 11 it's left for you it's yeah oh for the for the
00:36:19.680for the christians that are all like torqued up about what they're seeing in the world it starts
00:36:23.600right there at your house like how are you speaking to your wife what are you doing with
00:36:28.700your children there's a there's plenty of problems right there and as everyone gets going on those
00:36:35.880all of a sudden it starts to manifest itself outside of the home in this community that's
00:36:42.240certainly what's happening here and that people need to look for a community like that it certainly
00:36:48.380seems to be the time i know you made a you made a move from california to texas right i think you
00:36:52.960made that transition. And just to real quick advertise, you know, so Moscow, you know,
00:36:58.060is growing by leaps and bounds because everybody wants to be a part of Doug's church and praise
00:37:01.200God for that. But just so our listeners know, there are a couple other places, you know,
00:37:05.660besides just Doug. And, you know, the testimony has been similar for us that, you know, we just
00:37:10.880moved here December 2020. So the very end of 2020, and we were worshiping for three months
00:37:15.400on the Lord's Day with other like-minded churches here in Texas, getting the lay of the land
00:37:19.000in Georgetown, Texas. And then April, we started holding our Lord's Day gatherings in my home. So
00:37:25.140we started with 15 people in April of 2021. And here we are now in February of 2022, and we
00:37:32.840already have 85 people. And just two weeks ago, I had four men, and these aren't 20-year-old
00:37:39.020single men, but four men in their late 30s with wives and children that they left behind in
00:37:45.140California, but these four guys got on a plane and came and spent a weekend with me to scope out,
00:37:50.340should we move our four households? And we've got two other guys that are talking about coming with
00:37:54.480us. And same thing, they're like, we're going to go visit Moscow next. And so it's between Georgetown
00:38:00.640with Joel, or it's going to be Doug and Moscow with you. And so my point is the whole, like
00:38:05.940Christians are waking up to this and they're realizing exactly what you're saying is that
00:38:09.760But the solution is not just here come the midterm elections and we need to vote better.
00:38:17.320But in addition to that, it's also we need a distinctly Christian church, distinctly Christian schools, and distinctly Christian households.
00:38:35.980Where can we go where somebody is building that we can join them in that work?
00:38:39.760back to you back to you yeah well no that's the beauty of it and it's it's a wonderful it's a
00:38:45.360wonderful um life to live when you're actually producing that kind of fruit you know when you
00:38:51.020be fruitful multiply fill the earth have dominion and uh that's going to be an interesting it's
00:38:56.760going to be interesting uh year to 10 kind of in the wake of this uh cultural spasm that we went
00:39:04.580through uh because there were there's a lot of good people doing a lot of good things and they're
00:39:09.320getting the right kind of flack for defending against, um, what was going on. And the church
00:39:15.260kind of got a taste of, of what we should have had a taste of for a long time. So I think we need
00:39:22.240to be, we need to be living in such a way that we're being persecuted, right? All who seek to
00:39:28.760live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. It's kind of like we weren't being
00:39:32.760persecuted. And then CRTI came on the scene and the church spoke up about it. And then we suffered
00:39:38.940some of that some of that um attack but we need to be doing that kind of thing um we need to be
00:39:45.940having the dominion that god tells us to have which is going to result in that um that experience
00:39:51.160even if the crti thing thing goes because there's a flourishing of the kingdom it was um it was an
00:39:58.180it was anglican anglican bishop who once said anywhere the apostle paul went there was a riot
00:40:03.920And anywhere I go, they serve tea. And that marks so much of our kind of pastoral ministry. It has, at least, in the United States. And you say, well, the crumbling of our civil order is very clear.
00:40:19.460And so while the CRTI thing may be settled in conservative evangelicalism, we don't just need to look for another defensive fight, but we need to actually start seeing Christian community, Christian civilization flourish.