The Peter Attia Drive - #234 ‒ Chris Hemsworth on Limitless, longevity, and happiness

00:00:00.000 Hey, everyone. Welcome to the drive podcast. I'm your host, Peter Atiyah. This podcast,

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00:00:47.780 here's today's episode. My guest this week is Chris Hemsworth. Many of you need no introduction

00:00:54.020 to Chris, of course, and most of you probably know who he is through his work as Thor in the

00:00:58.620 Marvel movie series. You've also likely seen him in no shortage of other movies out there. And of

00:01:03.100 course, my absolute favorite movie with him is Rush. I wanted to sit down with Chris to talk

00:01:08.180 specifically about his work in the recent project through National Geographic called Limitless,

00:01:13.720 which is now available on Disney+. Prior to the beginning of filming for Limitless, which was

00:01:19.180 in January 2020, I didn't know Chris. But over the past three years, I've gotten to know Chris very

00:01:23.300 well and consider him a very close friend. And it was great to sit down with him in New York as we

00:01:28.400 were both there for the premiere to talk about everything that had gone into the making of this

00:01:33.260 series. Chris and I had kind of an ongoing joke over the past few years where we would refer to

00:01:38.760 the series Limitless by another name, Relentless, because it really in some ways felt like this was

00:01:43.540 never going to end. In part, of course, that was due to COVID. But in part, I think it was because

00:01:48.520 the creative team behind this had such an amazing vision for what this could be. And frankly,

00:01:54.200 the version of Limitless that you all have seen is a significantly better version than I think the

00:01:59.940 one that was conceived back at the beginning in 2020. So as I said, given that we were both in New

00:02:05.780 York for the premiere, we wanted to take advantage of that and sit down and talk about this.

00:02:09.320 Unfortunately, time was not completely unlimited and there were constraints. And so as much as I

00:02:14.860 wanted to do a really deep podcast with Chris and talk about everything in his life beyond

00:02:20.540 Limitless, we simply didn't have the time given how much of Limitless we wanted to talk about.

00:02:24.900 So in this episode, we really just focus on Limitless, the challenges that he went through

00:02:29.220 in a variety of the episodes. In particular, we talk about how they've impacted him to this day.

00:02:34.540 In addition to the conversation with Chris, we sprinkle in a variety of clips from Limitless

00:02:39.160 throughout the interview process, depending on the topics that we're covering. While this lends,

00:02:43.160 I think, to a better watching experience of the interview, we're purposeful in choosing clips

00:02:48.040 from Limitless that would add value to even those of you who are just listening to this in audio

00:02:51.860 format. And of course, if you haven't checked out the series, I recommend you do so. As I said,

00:02:56.000 it can be found on Disney+. So without further delay, please enjoy my conversation with Chris

00:03:00.800 time. So good to sit down with you, brother. You too. Thanks for having me. So much to talk about,

00:03:11.000 but I feel like I just want to start with kind of getting a sense of the first time you heard about

00:03:16.360 this. Was it a call from Darren? Like, how did you even get involved in this project?

00:03:20.080 Yeah, I had a call from Darren. I'd be going back on three years now. He said, I want to do this series,

00:03:25.800 a docu-series called Limitless on longevity. And he said, I know you're a fit, healthy guy,

00:03:31.220 but we want to dive into the science and put you in some pretty extreme, intense, physical,

00:03:36.520 emotional situations and see how you fare. And you can be the guinea pig as far as the longevity

00:03:42.860 science goes. I said, why not? And initially it was supposed to be about a three-week shoot.

00:03:47.920 And I know you and I have talked about this a lot. Once COVID hit, the show got spread out over

00:03:52.780 two and a half years. And really it transformed in the best way possible due to having a hell of a lot

00:04:00.300 more time than I think we'd first anticipated. We were able to flesh out each episode, explore the

00:04:05.200 science in greater detail. I was able to grow throughout the experience and have different

00:04:10.560 opinions on myself, different opinions on how I approached health and wellness. So yeah,

00:04:16.220 I'm really proud of how it turned out. And I think it was a lot due to the time span we're

00:04:21.380 able to shoot it on. Kind of going back to this, first of all, I can't believe they bait and

00:04:24.800 switched you on three weeks of shooting because even before COVID, I was involved in four weeks

00:04:29.160 of shooting. So I don't know where anybody thought it was going to be done. And this week was two and

00:04:31.700 I was like, I can't fit that in my schedule. Then it was three and then two and a half years.

00:04:35.400 And we joke about it, right? What do we call it? Relentless. We're going to do a title change.

00:04:38.780 Limited, I was going to call it. So where were you in, you were done Avengers by that point?

00:04:44.500 Yeah. What did I, I'd done Avengers. I think I was doing the press tour. About the time this came

00:04:51.120 up, you hadn't done Love and Thunder. So I remember three years ago, almost to the day I was sitting

00:04:56.540 in my apartment here in New York with Darren, Ruth, Aerie, you know, sort of like the core group

00:05:02.220 from Newtopia and from Protozoa. And at that point, so call it November of 2019, they had the idea for

00:05:09.220 six episodes. It was still a bit foggy. And it's kind of amazing how quickly they morphed that into

00:05:16.440 that first shoot when we started in January. Was there anything about it that you had apprehension

00:05:21.120 about doing? I mean, besides the time, obviously time is an issue based on your schedule, but

00:05:25.040 were you nervous, worried, anxious about doing this? Because this is not acting.

00:05:31.620 I was, to be honest. So I hadn't never hosted anything before. And it's one thing to hide

00:05:38.080 behind the character and behind the mask of whatever individual you're playing in a film

00:05:42.800 setting. But then to be yourself, you know, I've done obviously plenty of interviews and

00:05:46.480 so on, but to be in a situation like this, where it was not only looking into the science,

00:05:52.480 but dissecting kind of my abilities and seeing what my limits were in one regard. And there's

00:05:58.660 vulnerability that's required there. I had to be authentic. So I didn't want to hold

00:06:03.020 back. But yeah, it was a little more of a hesitation or a lot more sort of thinking about

00:06:09.060 it as how I was going to come across. And was it going to be genuine? Was it going to

00:06:12.460 be appreciated or not? Or all sorts of silly kind of doubts and questions start to creep

00:06:18.160 in that I wasn't normally sort of thinking about. And then the thing transformed anyway,

00:06:22.560 as far as my initial, was there any hesitation around taking on the show? I don't think any

00:06:27.200 of us knew what it was going to be. The three or four weeks that we'd talk about, even when

00:06:30.840 you were involved, and I spoke to Darren the last couple of days about this, he said,

00:06:35.560 yeah, it was a very different beast at the beginning. And due to the time, but also I

00:06:39.980 think due to what I was willing to do and him and I had for it, it was allowed to evolve

00:06:45.820 and become something bigger. And as did the challenges, you know, there were discussions

00:06:49.840 about cold water immersion and we're going to do ice baths and so on. And then it was like,

00:06:54.400 let's go to Norway and let's, you know, swimming in the Arctic Ocean. And it sort of became more and

00:07:01.380 more epic as it went on. It feels like you, and I don't want to project this, so correct me if I'm

00:07:07.760 wrong, but as I watched you, because, you know, one of the things about this that was kind of a joy

00:07:11.920 is how close we became as a group, like you, your team, me, Darren, like the whole group kind of

00:07:17.020 coalesced. It's like you seem to trust the team even more and more as time went on and gave more and

00:07:22.480 more of yourself. Because again, everybody sort of got involved in this with the expectation this

00:07:26.760 was going to be bracketed in terms of time and COVID in part, but also I just think the

00:07:33.080 breadth of expectation of what this could be expanded the scope so much. Do you get the sense

00:07:38.320 that you were willing to give way more of yourself as this thing went on than maybe you had committed

00:07:43.960 to up front? Absolutely. And I think due to what you're saying about there's a trust there with

00:07:49.240 the people I was working with. I knew on paper that these were the experts in their field and

00:07:53.480 all of you were going to take care of me and advise me in the right way, but it's like you're working

00:07:57.420 with a director and each of the experts in each of these series were kind of leading the way and

00:08:04.340 they're at the helm and I was following. And if I have a good relationship with my director and I

00:08:08.360 trust them and that only comes through experience and time spent, then I'm going to give more of

00:08:13.340 myself and take more risks and not feel like it's going to be exploited in any way.

00:08:18.060 So the first episode that we filmed was the fasting one.

00:08:23.460 Look, I'm going to do it with you. You are?

00:08:25.220 Yeah. It makes it a lot easier to go through this with somebody else.

00:08:28.360 Okay, good. We'll suffer together.

00:08:31.840 We will.

00:08:33.460 I've definitely gone a day without food before.

00:08:35.500 I think I get pretty cranky when I've missed a meal. Certainly detrimental to my happiness.

00:08:46.500 It's a pretty long time. Why four days? Why not?

00:08:50.060 Why not longer?

00:08:51.660 I mean, what is the benefit with four days? Why that number?

00:08:54.880 Three to four days is probably that window at which we do enough to change how your body

00:09:02.300 body is interacting with the absence of nutrients to basically do kind of a reboot on your system.

00:09:09.280 Oh, really? Do you think I'm going to be able to hold it together? Do you reckon

00:09:12.100 in your experience, you see a lot of people, the first time they do it, succeed?

00:09:16.900 In the next four days, there is no doubt in my mind there will be a period of time in which

00:09:21.660 you feel sluggish or...

00:09:24.020 Tears.

00:09:24.560 Yeah.

00:09:25.420 Emotion.

00:09:26.120 Kind of grumpy, grouchy, whatever.

00:09:27.800 But, you know, if you really stop to think about it, this idea that we kind of live today

00:09:33.400 where we're sort of surrounded by unlimited access to food and we can eat three meals and

00:09:39.060 snack in between them, that's a relatively recent addition to our species.

00:09:43.980 Right.

00:09:44.480 And our ancestors would have gone days without food all the time. And not only did they have

00:09:49.620 to do that, they had the ability to, in a period of starvation, actually go out and hunt.

00:09:54.480 I think that shows up third or fourth in the sequence.

00:09:58.160 Yeah, it does, yeah.

00:09:58.920 What did you know going into that and what was your expectation?

00:10:01.700 Just that I had never fasted before and I knew that this was going to be...

00:10:05.460 And I don't think you knew how long it was going to be or anything like that. I mean,

00:10:08.320 we sort of sprung that on you in real time over that dinner.

00:10:11.400 We did. I think the initial discussions were around like intermittent fasting and restricted

00:10:15.540 sort of feeding windows. And then it was like, oh, maybe we'll do a day or a couple

00:10:19.360 of days. And you're like, no, we're doing four days.

00:10:21.900 By the way, I suggested three.

00:10:23.540 Did you?

00:10:24.260 I did. And they said, no, no, we're going to go one more. Because I said, I wouldn't

00:10:27.060 normally have a patient go more than three days on the first one.

00:10:30.460 Good.

00:10:30.840 And they pushed it to four.

00:10:33.080 Yeah, I don't know. I mean, as we talked about many times, my expectation or kind of

00:10:37.840 thoughts around, would I be able to do it or not? I think we're in line with yours.

00:10:41.860 I thought, look, we're going to commit. We're going to do it. But we kept discussing,

00:10:44.700 you'll kick into ketosis on day two, you know, and maybe day three. And then it got to like

00:10:49.460 day four. And I'm like, nah, I'm not feeling any of the sharpness or alertness.

00:10:52.800 And then right in the afternoon when we went spearfishing, probably at the right time too,

00:10:58.560 it kicked in and things started to sort of percolate.

00:11:00.760 I remember saying to Tanya, I think it was to Tanya, it might have been somebody else,

00:11:05.920 but I think it was to Tanya as we were getting ready to head out on the boat. That was the

00:11:11.560 moment when I kind of realized how sort of strong you were, because I felt like you didn't have that

00:11:17.780 much time to prepare for that exercise. And it wasn't under ideal circumstances. It's one thing

00:11:22.640 to say, you're going to do your first fast. It's going to be for four days. And it was hard

00:11:27.100 enough. I mean, we worked out every day. We had a bunch of other things that we had to do,

00:11:30.920 but then learning an entirely new skill around breath holding and spearfishing, I mean, I think

00:11:35.340 would be challenging under any circumstance. How much of that do you remember? You know,

00:11:38.580 it's been almost three years since we filmed that, but how much of that do you remember?

00:11:41.060 And was there ever a moment when you thought, I'm not worried that something's going to happen to me,

00:11:45.040 but I'm worried that I'm not going to be successful?

00:11:46.620 That was most of the episodes. As I'd get to doing the Arctic swim or doing the four-day fast or

00:11:53.560 climbing the rope, I kept thinking, if I don't complete this exercise, it's not really an

00:11:58.780 episode or it's pretty anticlimactic. And so there was definitely a healthy amount of fear there kind

00:12:05.060 of motivating me, but also coming back to the why of it and why we're doing it and understanding

00:12:10.520 the specific purpose of each challenge was, on one hand, looked like they were trying to kill me,

00:12:16.000 but on the other hand, there was an incredible amount of information and knowledge and support

00:12:21.360 and science there that says, you do this, you do this consistently, you work this into your daily

00:12:25.860 routine, then the benefits are exponential. So let's think about Norway. We filmed that in,

00:12:30.980 I think, February, right? I mean, we went right from Australia, maybe had two weeks off and then

00:12:34.420 we're all in Norway. My recollection of that was a beauty like I couldn't imagine. So we were there

00:12:40.040 to do this thing. It was in this place that you would normally never go to. I feel like we took

00:12:44.240 like three flights to get there or something crazy. Again, Ross spoke about this a little

00:12:47.960 bit last night, which was, it was another example of you were being asked to do something

00:12:53.880 much quicker than you would normally do so, right? I think you didn't, what was the first

00:12:59.200 day you jumped in that water? Because it's different than an ice bath. Like you can sit

00:13:03.700 in an ice bath all you want. It's a totally different experience to jump in the ocean when

00:13:06.980 it's 36 degrees Fahrenheit.

00:13:08.000 Some of the episodes I was able to train for, specifically probably the strength episode,

00:13:14.180 that was on and off of the course of six, seven months. And then I had injuries and so on. But

00:13:18.860 the cold water immersion, I mean, I did a couple of ice baths back in sunny.

00:13:25.220 We were doing some in Australia.

00:13:26.300 Back in Australia. And that was new to me. And then I was talking to Ross about it. And

00:13:31.000 the sort of overarching idea was that, you know, they were talking about developing brown fat,

00:13:36.040 you know, and we're going to monitor that. And Ross is like, not in four days, this is going

00:13:39.920 to happen. And so it became as much a adaptation around cold water immersion as much as it was

00:13:46.760 sort of a resilience test or just a grit head down, go for it. Because the first time we jumped

00:13:52.680 in the water in Norway and we were in there for four and a half minutes, that was longer than any

00:13:57.440 ice bath I've had, but it was snowing. I'm breathing in, you know, freezing cold air and it's windy.

00:14:04.360 And I'm also moving, you know, you sit in an ice bath and there's a couple of mil of water that

00:14:08.900 starts to heat up if you stay still. You're treading water, then none of that's happening.

00:14:13.540 So a lot of it was trusting Ross and listening to Ross's voice and just kind of, again, back to

00:14:19.600 what you said about the trust. If I didn't have Ross there coaching me through it, having also done

00:14:23.860 it and even to even more extremes, I would have questioned it to no end. And in particular,

00:14:28.920 on that actual, on the actual swim itself, halfway through, I was like, every part of me was like,

00:14:35.000 you're dying. Get out of the water. This is ridiculous.

00:14:36.880 Explain to me and to folks watching and listening what it feels like, because I have never been in

00:14:42.500 water that cold. I've done long swims at about 49 degrees. And even at that temperature, which

00:14:48.480 seems balmy compared to 36, I mean, that's a big difference, right? It feels like you're on fire.

00:14:53.900 Oh, yeah. It actually feels like you're in boiling oil, which I think most people wouldn't

00:14:58.200 understand. How is that possible? You can get in something so cold and the sensation is that of

00:15:01.940 being lit on fire. And then the other thing that I think is, I'm curious to whether you felt it as

00:15:07.180 well, is the breathlessness. It starts to take your breath away. Yeah, it definitely, I mean, I'm not

00:15:12.220 going to sound overly dramatic, but it was one of the most painful things I've ever done. And again,

00:15:16.760 in comparison to the ice baths, very different. The big thing was putting my head underwater. Again,

00:15:20.900 an ice bath. Remind me, did you have earplugs? I don't think I did, no. Big difference, by the way.

00:15:28.560 Oh, yeah. I was standing on the shore. And all the training we'd done was treading water head

00:15:33.520 above water. And Ross is like, let's go for a proper swim tomorrow. I was like, I just don't

00:15:38.000 want to do it, mate. I'm just saving it for the day. You know, in the afternoon when we actually

00:15:41.080 shoot it, I'm just going to go for it. Because if I experienced, and I think in hindsight, if I had

00:15:45.540 have experienced how painful it was, I would have been even more doubtful. So I was standing on the

00:15:50.260 edge and he said, we want to warm up as much as possible before you get on and strip off

00:15:54.280 and dive in. And he said, and then when you get in, just take a second to try and adjust before

00:16:00.120 you put your head under. And we did the warmup. I walked down to the edge and I didn't even know

00:16:04.740 if they were rolling. But I was like, I'm out of here. I'm in the water and I'm off. And Ross

00:16:08.980 didn't even have time to jump onto the boat that was chasing us along. I jumped in, just started going.

00:16:14.340 And the first like, I don't know, maybe 25, 30, 40 meters. I was like, got this. You know what?

00:16:20.580 I'm going all the way. I'm coming back. I'm doing two laps. And out of nowhere, once the initial sort

00:16:27.000 of adrenaline went, I felt the most extreme headache, pain, right, to all through and to the

00:16:34.680 back of my eyes, in front of my head, everywhere. And I started, I was looking at the bottom as I was

00:16:39.460 swimming and I started getting really dizzy. And then I all of a sudden stopped and I was like,

00:16:43.780 I'm going to throw up. Like it was that painful. And then I look and I've actually swum off course

00:16:48.980 a bit. And I've started swimming toward where the couple of the camera guys are. And they're like,

00:16:52.080 the buoy's that way, go that way. So I head down again. And the whole time I'm just like,

00:16:56.980 nah, get out, get out, get out, get out. And then I have another voice in my head,

00:17:00.500 I have Ross's voice there saying, come on, fight, fight, dig in. And I just started going for it.

00:17:05.560 But what starts to happen is your arms and legs are just like lead balloons. Nothing works. You

00:17:11.220 know, I felt like I was swimming like this, a little chicken. And you can't keep your fingers

00:17:15.140 together. So your fingers start to splay. You can't hold the water. Yeah. And it's just like,

00:17:20.320 it was gnarly. And then I got to the buoy and they're all cheering and stuff. And Darren said,

00:17:25.900 I was waiting for a big celebration. I was like, I couldn't move. I was going to die. And then

00:17:29.400 the jet ski pulls up and he's like, well done, mate. And I'm like, you help me on, mate. I can't lift

00:17:34.160 my arms and they drag me up onto it. And then the same thing would have gone on the boat. Everyone's

00:17:37.980 like cheering and Ross is like, get out of the way. And he came in with a blanket and a little

00:17:42.080 beanie and sort of started warming me up and so on. It was wild, but I've never felt the endorphin

00:17:47.920 kick and the sort of elation that I felt afterward. It was incredible. And I just remember the most

00:17:54.900 serene, peaceful state in awe of everything. And we are there in Norway. It's the most stunning

00:18:01.840 backdrop. But it's just this wonderful sense of calm and overwhelming sort of joy. And I think

00:18:09.620 that it comes with any time you achieve something that you think is impossible or overcome some great

00:18:15.700 challenge or in the face of diversity or whatever, you overcome it. It's such a beautiful feeling.

00:18:21.040 It made me think about people who climb Everest and do extreme feats all the time. And the rest

00:18:25.800 of us are wondering, why the hell would you do that? I believe it's for that moment. That post

00:18:30.160 feeling was pretty special. And I remember it for a long time. I think there's actually something

00:18:34.500 within that. It's not just accomplishing the feat. It's the temporal juxtaposition of being so low

00:18:40.860 and so high. Right. Like I don't think, you know how we don't feel speed? Like if you're on an

00:18:45.280 airplane, you don't feel it. You feel acceleration. In other words, we're only wired, I think,

00:18:50.520 to feel a rate of change. And I think that's true of emotion. Like if you're constantly in a state of

00:18:55.600 bliss, everything is going well all the time. I don't think you feel profound joy. So I think the

00:19:01.480 reason in part, I mean, I think there's a physiologic expectation for what you experience.

00:19:05.200 We'll talk about that in a sec. But I think what you're also experiencing is four minutes earlier,

00:19:09.860 I thought I was going to die. And even if the upper part of your brain knew you weren't,

00:19:15.160 the reptilian part of your brain absolutely believed it. You were dead. And then four or

00:19:20.500 five minutes later, you have this unbelievable surge of positive emotion. I don't think you can

00:19:26.680 find a period of time. And when just four minutes, you can go from your absolute lowest,

00:19:30.520 your absolute highest. I think that's the thing. That's the juice.

00:19:34.040 Yeah, absolutely. And with no negative lasting injury, you know, for sure.

00:19:39.080 I mean, of all the things in Limitless, the strength stuff, the endurance stuff, the mental

00:19:46.360 challenges, all those things, you know, the hardest one to make the case for, this will make you live

00:19:51.100 longer, is go and jump in the Arctic Ocean and swim. However, I think about the benefits of cold

00:19:57.140 water, I think that is something everybody should get used to exposing. I mean, just this morning,

00:20:00.820 right? Like, you know, you and I had breakfast, had to really quickly go up, shower, come get over

00:20:04.220 here. I still made time to spend 30 seconds to a minute in the ice water of the shower in the hotel.

00:20:10.240 And I love that feeling of the first time you get into the ice water, you feel a,

00:20:15.140 right? You feel that little thing. I mean, there is really compelling evidence at what this does to

00:20:19.020 brain chemistry. So that's the other thing that I think you're also experiencing. Although

00:20:22.160 in your swim, it was to a much higher degree than just taking a cold shower and ice bath. But you

00:20:27.860 were, I think, probably being flooded with endorphins and neurotransmitters that are very positive.

00:20:33.380 Absolutely. And you still do this. I mean, this is still kind of a part of your routine. You're

00:20:36.960 constantly taking an ice bath. Yeah. And it's probably about exactly what you're saying,

00:20:41.260 like the endorphin kick, but also every time I get in the ice bath, whether I'm somewhat used to it,

00:20:47.580 it's still brutal. But the moment you get out, like you say, you've gone from one extreme to another.

00:20:51.880 So it's an instant sort of kick of happiness. But I find even like just from inflammation repair,

00:20:58.220 the general mood, if I wake up in the morning and I'm feeling off and I'm achy and I'm not

00:21:03.360 in the space, I can have a hot shower and like I'm still a bit doughy, but I jump in the cold

00:21:07.920 and completely different. It's a game changer. So does Elsa join you? Do your kids join you?

00:21:13.140 One of my kids often tries to jump in for not that long, but gives it a go. Yeah. And Elsa

00:21:19.000 does it too. We have a sauna and an ice bath set up at home and it's the best rehab.

00:21:23.380 I couldn't agree more. Single best investment I've ever made was the sauna cold plunger at home.

00:21:28.060 Let's talk about strength. So Chris, you obviously spend a lot of time working on your strength

00:21:36.260 training. What type of program do you do? I mean, over the years training for different roles and

00:21:43.980 for Thor in particular, it was about getting big and mass. I do shoulders one day, arms another,

00:21:49.340 back, chest, legs. Got it. Okay. Feel okay?

00:21:55.080 Uh-huh. Obviously, he's in amazing shape. Most of us would look at Chris and give anything to look

00:22:04.020 like that. But there's always room for improvement. There are more than 600 muscles in the human body

00:22:13.580 and for longevity. And for longevity, you've got to make good use of as many as possible.

00:22:20.260 So when I assessed Chris's muscular power and efficiency, his flexibility and agility,

00:22:27.420 I found he could be working a wider range of those muscles.

00:22:31.440 That's it. Let's go. Two, one. That's it. Done.

00:22:34.520 I think that was an awesome episode because I think, and this is a great example of where COVID

00:22:47.080 really benefited the series. Yeah.

00:22:49.300 Because the initial challenge for strength was kind of an interesting challenge. But I think the

00:22:55.740 one you ultimately ended up doing was better. And my only view on this was like, from a scientific

00:23:00.180 perspective, what can we say about strength and longevity or fitness and longevity and really

00:23:04.420 like kind of grip strength, cardiorespiratory fitness would be top of the list. And that's why

00:23:09.980 I think that that challenge was a perfect challenge because it's grip strength, it's top end

00:23:16.440 cardiorespiratory fitness. Yeah. Initially it was, I was going to be in a harness and pulling a car

00:23:21.940 across a section of land. And Ross Edgley had done that, I think for 20 hours or something crazy.

00:23:27.660 So he was like, I'll train you to do that. And we were doing it. And I did like, I did a good month,

00:23:32.440 like pulling a sled in the backyard. I had a little Polaris dune buggy thing that I was pulling for a bit.

00:23:38.220 And it just started to like aggravate my back and joints and everything. And so we transitioned then

00:23:44.460 to the rope climb. And as you say, it was probably more on point as far as the science around

00:23:49.920 strength and longevity. So I started training for the rope climb. I'd never climbed a rope before.

00:23:55.320 And Ross had also done a feat like that. And so was, was training me. He said to me, look,

00:23:59.620 you want to be strong, but you don't want to be heavy. The heavier you are, the harder it is going

00:24:02.700 to be to get up that rope. So I had a three meter rope in my house. That's 10 feet for the Americans.

00:24:07.240 Yeah. 10 feet in my house. And I was going kind of three quarters of the way up and just jumping off and back

00:24:12.220 up and down and doing loops like that. And one day I jumped down, blew my ankle out and I ruptured

00:24:18.260 all the ligaments and tore ligaments. What happened by the way? Was there anything different that day?

00:24:22.460 I was rushing. The UFC was on, right? My mates were in the next room and I was in the gym where my

00:24:26.780 house set up. And they got, I quit starting. I'm like, I'm just getting in 15 minutes and I'm up and

00:24:30.900 down. And it must've been like last one. And I just jumped off and I had a mat there and I just rolled

00:24:35.440 my ankle. It just blew out. Then straight away I looked at it. It was ballooned. And Utopia and all the team

00:24:39.940 from that year were in Australia ready to shoot. I think it was next week. So called them up and

00:24:45.400 said, this ain't going to happen. And then I had a doctor have a look and I said, yeah, this is not

00:24:48.480 good. And that was the rope. That was the foot I was going to anchor off as I was pulling myself up.

00:24:52.640 And for folks that have seen Thor, you've got kind of different bodies in there. I assume the biggest

00:24:58.400 you were in Thor was that scene when you were in front of Russell Crowe. Yeah. By the way, I was that

00:25:02.660 size for that afternoon and kind of fluctuate through the film. Obviously you pick your windows and days of

00:25:08.460 kind of, you know, where to be your biggest. This was like, I had been training with Ross

00:25:13.740 prior to that and quite intensely and learned some pretty unique, special things and how to

00:25:21.400 just kind of blast the body and do the most effective, intense workouts and when and what

00:25:27.860 to eat and so on. And so I was schooled in that more so than I'd ever been before. So I had an

00:25:32.120 opportunity to get stronger and bigger than I ever was, but the timing of it didn't line up with this

00:25:37.220 event. And so Ross turns up and I tried to, hadn't been using the rope at all because I'd been working

00:25:42.540 and we started doing it and I was just heavy and I was getting like three, four pulls up and I was

00:25:48.100 just like, everything was tightening up and so on. So we had about two weeks where I just stopped

00:25:53.840 lifting weights completely. And it's funny, I don't know if you've ever put on a big amount of muscle

00:25:59.020 that it doesn't take long for your body to go, okay, this is where you can switch gears now.

00:26:03.080 And so I started doing a lot more rope pulls and sled pulls, got down to the Blue Mountains

00:26:08.400 where we shot and there was a... And what was your weight doing during that period of time? How much

00:26:11.860 weight were you dropping? I mean, it was only a few weeks, so a little bit, but I was still...

00:26:15.680 Did you make an effort to reduce your intake as well? Yeah. Because you were eating like crazy.

00:26:19.840 Two and a half weeks, I stopped lifting weights. I reduced my calories pretty dramatically and maybe lost

00:26:25.160 a couple of kilos. I don't know. It would have been like two or nine or something, but still heavier than I

00:26:29.780 should have been for it. Yeah. And we get to the Blue Mountains and it's the most beautiful setting

00:26:33.200 and there's the cable cart across two mountains. It's a thousand foot off the ground and we go out

00:26:39.140 onto this cart and they throw the rope out and it's a hundred feet, the rope, which is three,

00:26:45.340 four times longer than anything I've climbed in my training or anything. So again, this became

00:26:50.880 less about what you've trained for this and more about just again, grit and will and just get up

00:26:57.700 there. And I just remember Ross kind of at the top of the cart going, make it a fist fight,

00:27:02.120 make it a fight. Come on, big man.

00:27:05.560 Stand by, the door's opening.

00:27:09.660 We've got the rope going out.

00:27:17.560 Oh, don't even want to look out there.

00:27:22.080 That's all hits me.

00:27:23.520 And all the little voices of doubt that I've been pushing aside in my mind. It starts

00:27:30.800 again, louder and louder.

00:27:33.380 I'm looking down and I'm thinking that it's not something I fancy doing.

00:27:40.720 But I cannot let Chris see any moment of doubt in my mind at all.

00:27:46.000 No, no, no, no. Switch on, switch on, switch on. Switch on.

00:27:51.760 Yeah, I'm good.

00:27:52.720 We're good.

00:27:59.820 Ready?

00:28:00.200 So I'm getting winched down, and it feels a lot longer than 100 feet.

00:28:25.780 I don't want to look back up, because I'm like, this is so much further.

00:28:30.200 Than I've ever climbed.

00:28:33.220 How long did it actually take, start to finish?

00:28:36.040 Probably, I don't know, probably a couple of minutes.

00:28:39.280 It's a long time to be, you know, there's a harness that will catch me if I fall, but none of it is helping me up the rope.

00:28:44.500 I was surprised the quad burn was one of the most gnarly things.

00:28:47.680 More than your hands? More than your forearms?

00:28:49.300 Both. Biceps and forearms.

00:28:51.640 I mean, when I got off, I had, like, claws. I couldn't extend my fingers. They were locked.

00:28:56.400 But my quads, and especially my right leg, kind of doing the push and the anchor.

00:29:00.000 So how do you feel physically now, from a strength perspective, in terms of, like, how this has kind of morphed your training a little bit?

00:29:08.400 I feel it's more specific, my training now.

00:29:11.900 You know, I used to just sort of go in, and I still do to an extent, like, and just start throwing weights around and go, I go biceps, you know, I go back and I go chest and shoulders and just as heavy as I could, as much as I could.

00:29:23.580 And when I was a bit younger, I could get away with doing that.

00:29:25.780 And then now it's like, oh, jeez, I've just not warmed that up properly, or, you know, you're kind of hitting everything too many times.

00:29:32.040 And so just being smart about the training, and that came from working with Ross and my trainer, Luke Zocchi, as well.

00:29:37.900 You're just targeted, much more targeted approach.

00:29:40.960 He has really interesting, intense ways to work out, though.

00:29:44.540 So everything is about sort of explosive energy, like light up your, was it your parasympathetic nervous system and just switch on.

00:29:54.780 Sympathetic, probably.

00:29:55.360 Sorry, sympathetic, yeah.

00:29:56.580 And fire up and just explosive up and then slow negatives.

00:30:00.580 That made dramatic differences.

00:30:02.060 I got far more gains than I had previously training like that.

00:30:04.880 Now, you actually, I don't think I've told you this, by the way, but, you know, in the process of kind of going through a lot of your genetic stuff, which we're doing now, we'll talk about this in a second, but kind of doing this, you know,

00:30:12.740 we actually have found that you have a very favorable gene around muscle fibers.

00:30:18.160 I do?

00:30:18.520 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:19.420 So I think that we'll talk a second about kind of like a gene you have that we wish we could erase, but on the flip side, you've got a pretty favorable gene around fast twitch muscle fibers.

00:30:28.700 You know, you sort of have a genetic predisposition to be muscular and to be strong and to be explosive.

00:30:35.340 I was lean when I was younger, but as soon as I started, even when I was playing footy and I was 17, doing more push-ups, whatever, I would grow.

00:30:42.260 So I've always had to work my ass off in that space.

00:30:44.680 But, yeah, I do feel I've had some benefits there.

00:30:49.220 It's a great variant of a gene to have as you age because one of the hallmarks of aging is actually atrophy, shrinkage of these fast twitch muscle fibers.

00:30:58.880 So shrinkage in Norway, definitely.

00:31:01.380 Different type.

00:31:02.220 But yes, yes, yes.

00:31:02.840 So as we get older, these slow twitch muscle fibers are shrinking in everybody, and that's why people are losing strength and power and explosiveness most rapidly as they age, much more than they're losing endurance.

00:31:16.620 Slow fiber.

00:31:17.300 So, you know, one of the things we always talk about with our patients is, hey, we need you lifting weights all the time.

00:31:23.000 You start early and you never stop lifting weights, and the heaviest you can lift is the better because it's only through lifting heavy weights that you can really get those fast twitch type 2 muscle fibers firing.

00:31:34.640 So the fact that you kind of have a genetic predisposition to have more of them is a good thing.

00:31:38.540 Which then brings us to kind of like some of the other stuff we talked about.

00:31:42.800 So one of my earliest memories of this whole experience was in December of 2019.

00:31:48.920 We took advantage of the fact that you were in L.A. to get some blood work done.

00:31:53.120 And, you know, Darren said, look, here's the deal.

00:31:55.620 You and Chris are going to sit down in January in Australia to kick off the first bit of shooting, and I want you to walk Chris through his blood work just as you would do with a patient the very first time.

00:32:06.500 And I said, okay, great.

00:32:07.180 I get the blood test back about two weeks before I'm supposed to go out to Australia, and I see something in it that I say, Darren, I can't walk him through this for the first time on camera.

00:32:16.800 That's not fair to him.

00:32:18.020 I mean, I know that that's what sort of the drama is, but this is a bit too much.

00:32:22.660 But I can't tell you, Darren, what it is.

00:32:25.160 So without telling you, you need to trust me that this can't be done on camera for the first time.

00:32:30.620 This one thing.

00:32:31.460 You can do the whole lab, but this one thing.

00:32:33.200 So I asked him to sort of trust me, and he did.

00:32:35.280 And then we connected.

00:32:36.080 So he called me first.

00:32:37.820 Yeah.

00:32:38.540 He kind of in a panic and was like, you've got to call Peter Atiyah.

00:32:41.460 Something's come up, but I don't know what it is.

00:32:44.160 And I was like, oh, God.

00:32:46.440 How long have I got left?

00:32:47.660 What's happening?

00:32:48.660 And so I was kind of rattled before we even got on the phone.

00:32:51.860 So we did sort of the million-dollar workup on you.

00:32:57.040 We've got every blood test one can get.

00:32:59.300 And I've looked at every gene in your body six ways to Sunday.

00:33:02.540 And overall, your labs look fantastic.

00:33:06.060 And I think looking at you from the outside, it's clear how much you take care of yourself.

00:33:12.140 But we did find a couple of things that are a cause for concern.

00:33:16.160 Wrong.

00:33:17.200 Some of the genetic testing that we did looked at a gene for a protein called ApoE.

00:33:23.700 You have a very rare combination, which is you have two copies of ApoE4, a set from your mom and a set from your dad.

00:33:34.600 And what does that mean exactly?

00:33:36.120 That means you have an increased risk of Alzheimer's disease.

00:33:40.180 How much higher?

00:33:46.420 Probably somewhere between eight and ten times higher than that of someone in the general population.

00:33:53.400 Yeah, right.

00:33:53.980 Okay.

00:33:56.500 You know, you're, I don't know, you're constantly thinking you're going to live forever, especially as a young individual.

00:34:03.760 And then to all of a sudden be told, oh, this may be the thing that might take you out, was like, whoa.

00:34:10.180 It kind of floored me for a minute.

00:34:15.420 You know, it's hard to imagine, but it's my belief that if we take every step possible, we can reduce your risk to that of anyone else.

00:34:29.480 Sure.

00:34:30.280 In fact, I don't think you'll believe me when I say this, but I think you will in time.

00:34:35.080 You having this gene is probably a blessing.

00:34:37.960 Because the motivation that will get me to.

00:34:40.180 Yeah, it's, this is going to motivate you to take steps today that most people your age would never think about until they're in their fifties or sixties.

00:34:49.480 Sure.

00:34:49.780 I hadn't had too many patients that had this combination of ApoE4-4.

00:34:56.380 It's not a very common genotype.

00:34:58.220 It's only about 1% of the population.

00:34:59.820 So I probably only at that time had maybe three patients that had it.

00:35:04.020 And truthfully, two of the three of them kind of suspected it before the blood test based on their family history.

00:35:12.020 In one case, about a 40-year-old woman, total shocker.

00:35:17.480 And so I remember just sort of trying to say, look, this is a gene that really increases risk of Alzheimer's disease.

00:35:26.540 But it's not a deterministic gene.

00:35:29.260 And that's, I think, just something someone like me can take for granted because I'm sort of in this space.

00:35:33.240 I understand that.

00:35:33.760 But I think that's a hard concept to explain to somebody who doesn't eat, sleep, and breathe genetics.

00:35:39.000 Which is, you have this gene, and it doesn't guarantee this thing is going to happen.

00:35:43.840 And there are some genes that do, by the way.

00:35:45.200 There are certain genes that if you have the gene, if the gene for Huntington's disease, you're going to get Huntington's disease.

00:35:50.080 This isn't that kind of gene.

00:35:51.960 But it's increasing your odds.

00:35:54.080 And that's the bad news.

00:35:56.260 And then the good news is the earlier you know this, the more you can do to mitigate risk.

00:36:03.140 That was my message.

00:36:04.300 But what did you hear?

00:36:05.140 I mean, how much do you think back to that?

00:36:06.480 Again, I knew nothing about the science or the sort of the markers and so on outside of that one conversation.

00:36:13.180 And so I hung up, and I was trying to explain it to my wife.

00:36:16.080 And I was like, yeah, I'm not really sure what he just said.

00:36:20.240 But I think, you know, I'm more vulnerable to Alzheimer's.

00:36:23.520 And then we had another conversation.

00:36:25.920 And I wish we'd had more conversations immediately after because I did spend sort of a week going, what does this mean?

00:36:31.800 What's going to happen?

00:36:32.780 And how long have I got?

00:36:33.900 And I'm trying to talk to my parents about it.

00:36:35.480 And they didn't know much about it either.

00:36:37.460 My grandfather has Alzheimer's and, you know, it's been very tragic to watch.

00:36:42.040 And so they were aware of it but didn't know in any great detail about the gene combination we were talking about.

00:36:47.220 But as you say, it was just a good sort of kick in the ass and a reminder to, you know, do what I can, whatever's within my control and within my power to give myself the best fighting chance.

00:36:58.800 And, you know, whatever work I'm doing for brain health benefits the rest of my body and the rest of my life anyway.

00:37:05.000 So we turned it into a positive.

00:37:07.660 You know, one of the things that was sort of interesting about filming this is we obviously came out, we filmed it, and we did everything in duplicate for those episodes.

00:37:15.980 We did everything.

00:37:16.860 We talked about all this and we went through all this stuff.

00:37:18.680 And then, of course, it was also done, which is, hey, there's a really good chance that we're not going to want to talk about this particular aspect of Chris's health publicly.

00:37:26.020 So let's redo that whole thing but without that.

00:37:29.220 And I think for about two years it was we didn't know which version of this was going to happen.

00:37:34.940 Obviously, the decision was 100% yours.

00:37:37.380 When and why did you decide that you wanted to be public with something so personal?

00:37:42.640 Once I understood more about it but also the same reason it's motivated me to make positive changes, I thought, well, that's a great opportunity for anyone else out there who may be in the same situation.

00:37:55.320 To either go and get checked or to understand more about brain health and see what they have within their power to make that change.

00:38:02.040 So I thought, oh, it's a, I don't know, it's a missed opportunity to motivate others to do the same if I don't talk about it.

00:38:10.460 And then they cut together two versions of the episode and the other one was just kind of fell flat, you know.

00:38:15.100 So this had, there was no over-dramatized or exploited or anything.

00:38:19.200 I think what they did a great job about was it just became relatable.

00:38:22.160 It became, and this is what most of the series was like, look, he's a human being like you or I and, you know, the sort of superhero costume aside.

00:38:30.340 This is an individual who has many of the same challenges and is up against the same things that all of us are, so.

00:38:38.780 Even though you have two copies of the APOE4 gene, which is a very rare combination, you know, 20 to 25% of the population has at least one copy of the E4 gene.

00:38:47.940 And even though that doesn't increase their risk as much as the increase that you experience, it still does.

00:38:53.020 In fact, even though it's only 20 to 25% of the population that has that gene, that group of people makes up about two-thirds of cases of Alzheimer's disease.

00:39:00.720 So I do think, I applaud you for doing it, and I'm really glad you did decide to do this because I've always said I really wish every single person would know their APOE genotype early in life.

00:39:10.980 And there's a lot of resistance in the medical community to this, truthfully.

00:39:13.240 There are a lot of physicians who would say, look, no one should know that.

00:39:16.120 There's nothing that can be done about it.

00:39:17.280 Why would you burden somebody with that knowledge?

00:39:19.720 And people like me and Richard Isaacson, Kellyanne Neotis, you know, people I work with, I mean, we fundamentally disagree with that, Chris.

00:39:25.900 We think that is complete nonsense.

00:39:27.420 And we think that this is absolutely a condition through which you have an enormous lever arm to mitigate risk.

00:39:34.740 If that's true, which I wholeheartedly believe it is, then not knowing that information early is criminal.

00:39:41.160 Yeah.

00:39:41.940 And also, as we were saying, that whatever I do in regards to protection and arming myself with the sort of tools to have the best chance, it benefits everything else anyway.

00:39:52.540 You know, we talked about reducing stress levels, more mindfulness practices.

00:39:57.220 There's certain training I do, nutrition, my sleep habits.

00:39:59.780 All those things made a dramatic difference in every other part of my life, too.

00:40:03.680 So, you know, one of the things I'll talk about is sauna.

00:40:07.500 But Peter's convinced that regular saunas can boost my long-term health.

00:40:12.520 You know, now that we just got in here, Chris, let's take your pulse.

00:40:16.020 You know, you're about 64 beats per minute.

00:40:23.220 But we've got this temperature cranked up to about 195 degree Fahrenheit.

00:40:29.800 So, let's see where you are in a couple of minutes.

00:40:32.160 I guess I've got to get used to this heat.

00:40:34.920 Yeah.

00:40:35.420 We're uncomfortable right now because we're hot.

00:40:37.900 And in response to that, our body is trying to cool us off.

00:40:41.560 Yeah.

00:40:41.760 And so, it's pumping harder so that your heart can quickly get the blood to the outside of your body.

00:40:47.920 And just as exercise is known to help with cardiovascular disease, I think sauna has a number of those benefits as well.

00:40:55.560 How much of a fan were you of sauna before we shot that series in Norway and then really kind of got into the science of why it's likely?

00:41:03.840 It hasn't been proven yet to the same extent that some things have because so much of the data is observational.

00:41:08.160 But it's so overwhelmingly positive in the same direction with every single study.

00:41:11.920 And I think we're quite confident it is.

00:41:13.880 You know, I know you've always enjoyed it.

00:41:15.040 But has that taken on kind of a more urgent role?

00:41:17.980 Yeah, definitely.

00:41:18.680 And definitely during having shot the show, it's made a – or it's become a bigger part of my daily routine, often after a workout.

00:41:27.240 And again, I don't know what the science says, but I know I feel great after doing it.

00:41:30.880 Same with an ice bath.

00:41:31.780 And so, if sort of mood elevation was the only thing, then I'm all about it.

00:41:35.360 I would say even if the emphasis and the benefit of the heat shock proteins is less than what we think, I agree with you.

00:41:41.540 I think just the psychological benefit and the sleep benefit.

00:41:44.840 I mean, the difference in my sleep between when I sauna and when I don't is so noticeable that then again, are we going to question the benefits of sleep?

00:41:52.680 I don't think so.

00:41:53.760 There is no doubt.

00:41:54.920 If I've been training a lot and I wake up achy in particular, you know, I've had issues with my back over the years.

00:41:59.920 If I wake up and I get in a sauna in the morning and I do an ice bath or either or, I feel 50%, 60% better.

00:42:08.100 You know, that's the thing.

00:42:08.760 You lie in bed all night and you're in, you know, that position and everything starts to kind of, I don't know, lies dormant and becomes, I don't know, there's no fluidity there.

00:42:19.060 You know what I mean?

00:42:19.440 You wake up and you're stiff and sore and then you get into one of those spaces, the hot, the cold or the hot, and instantly I feel like everything's just kind of lit up and awakened.

00:42:27.300 When we think about kind of the last episode, which is the one that we saw in the premiere, we were talking about this over breakfast today, but that episode, maybe more than any other, really reaped the benefit of COVID because it had so much more time to flesh out.

00:42:44.580 You know, when I think about what the first version of the final episode was supposed to look like, if this was kind of blasted through in 2020, I won't restate what that episode was supposed to be, but it was kind of gimmicky.

00:42:53.980 I didn't think it would work.

00:42:54.980 And then what it became is unbelievable.

00:42:57.060 In your mind, how was the evolution of that episode?

00:42:59.000 Did you have much of a hand in the creative side of that or were you kind of just a passenger?

00:43:03.160 No, I was a passenger and I was kept in the dark intentionally.

00:43:07.060 Darren didn't want me to know much about it.

00:43:08.520 It was an immersive theater experience.

00:43:12.200 And I'm glad I didn't know because I feel like I would have had preconceived sort of ideas and then expectations and couldn't have helped acting a certain way or reacting a certain way based on that.

00:43:21.840 So to go into it blind and just open and ready for whatever they were going to throw at me or throw me into was exciting and different to the other episodes.

00:43:32.180 Everything else was about being prepped in some way and learning and understanding some of the science prior to shooting.

00:43:37.720 Whereas this, it was about, all I knew was it was about the acceptance of death.

00:43:43.680 All I've been told is that I'm about to jump forward 50 years into the future.

00:43:48.040 And spend the next three days living the life of an octogenarian.

00:44:05.320 The architect of this strange challenge is Dr. BJ Miller, a world-renowned palliative care physician.

00:44:11.780 His work centers on unlocking the transformative power of accepting aging and death.

00:44:19.300 Dying offers us something.

00:44:21.660 We can change how we see it, what we do with it, how we play with it.

00:44:25.500 Chris is about to take part in a truly unique experiment.

00:44:30.360 Ready, my old man?

00:44:32.260 Uh, I don't know.

00:44:34.020 I mean, ask me in three days' time, maybe.

00:44:35.500 What did that suit feel like?

00:44:39.540 Just uncomfortable.

00:44:41.020 Incredibly restrictive.

00:44:42.580 And I talk about this in the episode, the way people then spoke to me.

00:44:48.880 Because they knew I couldn't hear properly.

00:44:50.680 And, you know, there was sort of this condescending, sort of patronizing tone of, you know, how you hear people and some of the time talk to the elderly, you know.

00:44:58.840 It made me immediately go, oh, my God, I hope I don't do that.

00:45:02.520 But incredibly isolating, too.

00:45:04.560 You know, your vision's diminished and, as I said, you can't hear.

00:45:08.960 Restricted.

00:45:09.920 So everything is, has been pulled away.

00:45:12.880 All the sort of, your abilities that were there the hour before I put it on.

00:45:17.100 And also not having 50 years to transition into that.

00:45:20.040 Again, one extreme to the other.

00:45:21.420 In the opposite direction to what we were talking about before.

00:45:24.080 You know, there's so many things about that episode that are beyond beautiful.

00:45:27.200 One of them, to me, it's just a very subtle thing, is that all of the residents of that place were not actors.

00:45:31.620 And what was it like kind of interacting with them?

00:45:35.300 Because, you know, you watch the episode.

00:45:36.940 It's like a, you know, slightly over an hour-long episode.

00:45:39.600 But I assume shooting it was days.

00:45:41.580 At minimum, three days.

00:45:42.720 Yeah, three days, yeah.

00:45:43.460 So you have a lot of time on that set.

00:45:45.480 I reckon some of those folks didn't necessarily know who you were prior to that episode.

00:45:49.060 Which must have been a great relief, wasn't it?

00:45:52.480 It was.

00:45:52.860 It was really nice.

00:45:53.920 It was unique and different on so many levels, that episode.

00:45:58.120 But to be in a retirement village with elderly folks who were there for the fun of the episode,

00:46:05.740 but were just genuine and truthful and honest and didn't hold back with anything they were thinking.

00:46:12.560 And sort of the no-filter approach to things was, it was great.

00:46:17.400 It was refreshing.

00:46:18.420 You know, I think being in a sort of industry where a lot of people do know who you are,

00:46:22.840 and a lot of the time you're sort of supported in what you're doing,

00:46:24.820 and everything's kind of tried to be made or be accommodating as possible.

00:46:28.940 That was like, no, you're one of us now.

00:46:31.620 It was fantastic.

00:46:32.620 Sort of brought me straight back to Earth.

00:46:34.900 If I'd drifted previously.

00:46:37.320 Having known you for many years, you're pretty down to earth.

00:46:39.780 But I still think that that must have been even another level,

00:46:42.940 because you're so far out of your comfort zone.

00:46:45.620 This wasn't, there's no superhero component to this.

00:46:48.660 No.

00:46:49.580 I was a lot more nervous about that episode than anything else,

00:46:52.140 because it wasn't something I could fight or muscle through,

00:46:55.340 or just put my head down, grip my teeth and go for it.

00:46:57.980 I had to be completely open and vulnerable and accessible,

00:47:03.160 and confront things that I had never really thought about that much,

00:47:07.860 and interact with people who were at the end of their days,

00:47:13.640 or who had dealt with death in very extreme ways, or come close to death.

00:47:19.000 And so to go from sort of one environment of physical sort of challenge and defeats,

00:47:25.160 and then go into this emotional state, was a real shock and an adjustment.

00:47:29.080 And I'm so proud of what the episode is and became,

00:47:32.880 because it's unlike anything I've certainly ever done,

00:47:35.200 but unlike anything I think that I've seen before in the doc space.

00:47:38.840 There were several moments that really stood out to me.

00:47:41.200 I'm guessing you didn't know B.J. Miller's story before that episode.

00:47:45.340 No, I didn't.

00:47:46.300 Because it came across as really genuine when you're hearing it for the first time on camera.

00:47:51.100 It looked to me as though that was the first time you were hearing it.

00:47:53.240 It was.

00:47:54.060 Do you recall what that felt like?

00:47:55.280 Because it seemed like you got quite emotional.

00:47:57.000 I'm curious as to what was more emotional.

00:47:59.760 Was it the tragedy of his story, or was it more how moved you were by his resilience

00:48:06.580 and how he overcame it to do what he's doing?

00:48:10.560 A combination of things.

00:48:11.860 He's one of the most unique individuals I've ever met.

00:48:14.740 This is something saintly and otherworldly about him.

00:48:18.340 He is such a beautiful individual.

00:48:19.640 Certainly his story shook me, and also the strength now that which he reflects upon it

00:48:27.220 and his attitude toward what happened to him was so inspiring.

00:48:32.660 It made me, you know, I was in a, I was really exhausted coming into that episode.

00:48:38.160 I was at the end of a, it felt like a five-year run of different films and work,

00:48:41.980 and we were shooting this series throughout.

00:48:43.180 And I think I was more vulnerable than I'd been in a long time, just out of exhaustion,

00:48:48.980 but also out of the questions that were starting to circulate through my head.

00:48:52.740 And a lot of them were to do with, you know, this point in my life,

00:48:58.160 and am I proud of what I've done?

00:49:00.920 Am I, what's next?

00:49:02.500 And all I kept thinking was, I have been sprinting through life and the moments and

00:49:09.060 opportunities, and I'm grateful for them, but I've been very quickly going to the next

00:49:15.080 one, the next one, next one.

00:49:16.020 And I was in a bit of a state of what's next, and what's the point, and who am I, and all

00:49:22.260 of these kind of questions that I hadn't sort of been able to analyze, but were there in

00:49:27.580 the back of my head.

00:49:28.280 And my mum had said something to me a few days before that she'd had this experience

00:49:34.380 where she came pretty close to what she thought was going to be her death in a very instant

00:49:38.260 sort of moment, and she's fine now.

00:49:39.960 But I said, oh, you know, I wasn't at all afraid to go because I realized I'm so thankful

00:49:45.760 for my life, and I'm so happy that everything I've had and all the experiences I have.

00:49:50.300 And I thought, well, what a beautiful feeling.

00:49:52.480 And then in that moment, I think I was talking to BJ about it, and I got really emotional because

00:49:57.080 I realized that I just, I'm not ready yet, you know?

00:50:01.720 I have all these beautiful things around me and family and friends, but I can't go yet.

00:50:05.360 This is not, this is not my time.

00:50:07.260 And it was strange because we're manipulating everything in that space to make me feel like

00:50:12.720 I'm going to die, and I'm asked to think about my death, how I would want it to be,

00:50:17.480 and so on.

00:50:17.860 But I had this sort of sense of urgency of just, I'm not ready, and it made me think about

00:50:23.940 my kids and how they're growing up and things are changing so dramatically, and like, I want

00:50:28.820 to sit, I want to soak it in.

00:50:30.680 I don't want to be in a sprint anymore.

00:50:32.380 I want to be more present.

00:50:33.600 I want to be right here and appreciate everything that's in front of me.

00:50:36.040 And again, I tried to articulate that a few times, and I feel I don't know if I've hit

00:50:42.220 the nail on the head as exactly why it's something in me sort of felt so fragile at that point.

00:50:50.000 That whole experience shook me to my core and made me want to slow down and just race home

00:50:58.480 to my family and my kids and not jump on another plane and travel and work and do anything else,

00:51:03.680 you know, in the best way.

00:51:05.820 I think the time when you were sitting on the bench next to Natalie was sort of equally

00:51:11.420 profound.

00:51:12.180 At least it appeared that way as an observer.

00:51:14.440 I assume it's the same.

00:51:15.580 You weren't aware of Natalie's story, and you're probably sitting there thinking, why are they

00:51:18.900 having me sit and talk to a 27-year-old, very normal, healthy-appearing woman?

00:51:23.660 Yeah, definitely.

00:51:24.980 Again, what she said particularly was there's an urgency from her to shake people and say,

00:51:30.700 wake up.

00:51:31.620 It doesn't last forever.

00:51:32.720 However, the end could come at any moment, so make the most of it and love and laugh

00:51:36.980 and live with a sense of gratitude and joy, incredibly inspiring and heartbreaking hearing

00:51:44.000 what she's been facing at such a young age too.

00:51:48.080 And I'm really thankful that I had those conversations and I was forced to think this

00:51:52.960 way and had this realization now, not when I'm 80.

00:51:56.960 You know, I'm glad I'm not sitting on my deathbed going, ah, damn, I should have done

00:52:02.260 this.

00:52:02.640 I could have done this.

00:52:03.540 Ah, if only I'd done that.

00:52:04.660 So I feel like this is sort of an awakening or a sort of shake up or whatever you want

00:52:09.120 to call it, came at the perfect time for me.

00:52:12.160 You and I talked about this last month, I think, but you haven't had more than two months

00:52:16.640 off in about 10 years, right?

00:52:18.180 Yeah, pretty much.

00:52:19.380 Yeah.

00:52:19.780 You know, during COVID, but even then I was still working or prepping things.

00:52:22.780 How do you reconcile the fact that you work so hard and you've been so successful and

00:52:28.760 with that success has come so many wonderful things?

00:52:31.420 You've got wealth, you've got fame, you've got a platform, right?

00:52:34.020 We're sitting here talking about more people are going to know what the APOE4 gene is and

00:52:38.260 why they need to be tested and what they can do about it because of this episode, because

00:52:42.620 of this series than anything else that would have ever come out of the scientific literature

00:52:46.280 ever.

00:52:46.980 And all of that is attributed to the fact that you have a platform to do this.

00:52:49.840 So there's all of these amazing things, both to you personally and to society at large

00:52:54.740 that come from this.

00:52:55.880 But at the same time, that's not sustainable.

00:52:59.480 You once told me a story about something your daughter said when you kind of half jokingly

00:53:04.680 suggested to her you might retire.

00:53:06.400 Do you remember what that was?

00:53:07.140 Yeah, I was talking to her and as I've done, I feel like I've been doing it for a long time

00:53:11.060 with my kids.

00:53:11.560 I'm like, you know, every time I've left to go on another trip, I'm going back to work.

00:53:14.580 I'm like, it's not long, you know, and soon I'm going to take some down time.

00:53:17.460 And I think, you know, my daughter sort of rolls her eyes at times these days and says,

00:53:21.220 yeah, sure.

00:53:22.000 And then this time I said, look, you know, when I've done this tour, I'm having a big

00:53:26.020 chunk of time at home.

00:53:26.960 And she goes, oh, great.

00:53:27.980 Awesome.

00:53:28.380 It'd be fun.

00:53:28.880 And I said, yeah.

00:53:30.160 And maybe I'll just retire.

00:53:31.020 Maybe this is it.

00:53:31.840 Maybe I'll stay home with you forever now.

00:53:33.800 And she's like, no, Dad, you can't.

00:53:36.420 And I was like, why?

00:53:37.300 And she goes, kids love seeing you play Thor.

00:53:39.880 And it was just beautiful kind of moment of like, oh, yeah, maybe it does.

00:53:45.360 There is a purpose to it.

00:53:46.500 You know, I think for me, I've been chasing my career and been doing it for a number of

00:53:51.740 reasons.

00:53:52.240 But, you know, it's been my journey.

00:53:54.540 And there's a sense of sort of guilt that comes with that, of sort of chasing down my

00:53:58.960 dreams all the time.

00:53:59.940 And when you have kids, it's not about your dreams anymore.

00:54:03.740 It's about theirs.

00:54:04.440 And I have a family to take care of.

00:54:05.960 And I was really sort of questioning kind of what I've contributed or done.

00:54:09.480 And hearing her say that was like a, you know, a beautiful little moment.

00:54:15.540 And so I don't want to retire, you know, for a number of reasons.

00:54:20.820 But I certainly want to replenish and, you know, fill up my cup again.

00:54:25.860 I feel like it's just been sort of flat stick for so long now.

00:54:30.820 And I've loved it.

00:54:31.720 And I'm very thankful for it.

00:54:32.840 But I need to have a chunk of time at home now and sort of, yeah, get re-inspired, I guess.

00:54:38.180 How is your sleep now compared to three years ago?

00:54:41.340 You had a very restless mind.

00:54:43.020 You would wake up a lot in the middle of the night.

00:54:44.880 And you'd have a thought.

00:54:45.960 And you'd fixate on it.

00:54:47.780 And sometimes it was a very rational thought.

00:54:50.440 Like, I'm worried about the success of this film.

00:54:52.800 I'm worried about my relationship with my wife.

00:54:54.700 I'm worried about, like, these were all very normal things to be concerned with.

00:54:58.120 But they would wake you up.

00:54:59.500 And you wouldn't be able to go back to sleep.

00:55:01.340 And then sometimes they were things that maybe seemed less rational.

00:55:04.800 Which, by the way, I'm not being critical of you.

00:55:06.300 Because every one of us has those very irrational thoughts.

00:55:09.840 Mostly irrational.

00:55:13.100 Stress.

00:55:14.240 It definitely affects my sleep.

00:55:16.940 And this is just going back a few years, you know.

00:55:19.080 This is not such a big issue these days.

00:55:21.200 But actually, it's not true.

00:55:23.340 It is.

00:55:27.500 Yeah, like, I'll go to sleep fine.

00:55:30.000 And then at 2.30, there's a shot of adrenaline.

00:55:33.500 And my brain will just start going through a checklist of things.

00:55:36.460 We'll be like, does that bother me?

00:55:37.240 Does that bother me?

00:55:37.700 Oh, that one?

00:55:38.160 Yeah, good.

00:55:38.540 Let's think about that.

00:55:39.500 Let's tear that apart.

00:55:45.500 Are you getting nervous a bit now?

00:55:47.340 A little wave of nausea.

00:55:49.500 Sometimes I don't even know why.

00:56:00.960 And I wish I could deal with that stress better.

00:56:08.400 Just got a whole lot real, didn't I?

00:56:11.000 Not just because it sucks.

00:56:12.800 Okay.

00:56:13.100 But also, it could be killing me.

00:56:19.360 How has that changed?

00:56:20.600 And has this series given you a different perspective on anything that has given you more peace?

00:56:26.380 I think generally I'm sleeping better than I was back then.

00:56:29.860 I think just running in a state of fight or flight constantly.

00:56:33.620 But that was required for me to leave Australia with not a whole lot of money in the bank and live on people's couches and audition and audition and go through that sort of grind and be told no a million times and still obsessively be pushing forward requires a huge amount of compulsive, obsessive, sort of self-motivated drive.

00:56:55.580 And then the problem is you then start to achieve those things, and I'm no longer in the same sort of fight that I was, but I'm still acting like I am.

00:57:05.400 My internal sort of environment is still thinking it's running away from the dinosaurs or whatever.

00:57:10.680 It goes back to our sort of ancestral makeup.

00:57:14.620 And so the more comfortable I get, the more I sort of rationally talk myself through, hey, it's all okay now.

00:57:21.940 You know, like you can afford to do this and this and this, and you don't have to worry so much about it not working out.

00:57:28.360 Some of that dissipates, but it's there all the time.

00:57:32.040 I'd be lying if I said that I had a complete handle on it.

00:57:35.040 But again, I don't want to kind of dismiss it too much because it's what got me here.

00:57:40.060 And it's a tool that I will still need to use at certain times.

00:57:44.260 It's just monitoring that.

00:57:46.000 And I hear a lot of people talk about that, people in the sort of friends of mine, sports players and so on, with that what's required to get them to that place.

00:57:54.340 It's a blessing and a curse.

00:57:56.020 And it's a hard thing to switch on, switch off, sorry, once you've opened the gates.

00:58:01.300 Yeah, I think that's a very common thread for people who have achieved great success.

00:58:05.600 And when you think about your motivation, right, when you think about the love you have for your craft, is there a way to use excitement more than fear?

00:58:17.040 Like, I think back to, you know, your beginning, as you talked about.

00:58:20.160 You've spoken a lot about, and I think you even did in some of the episodes, you spoke about how one day you found out your father wasn't going to be paying off the mortgage anytime soon.

00:58:27.700 Like, you sort of had this realization of the fact that your parents have done so much for you and your brothers with the means that they had, but you wanted more for them.

00:58:36.960 So part of your fuel for success was, like, I want to take care of my family as well.

00:58:40.760 Not just the kids that I'm going to have, which you didn't yet have, but these people who you love so much.

00:58:45.740 And there's a bit of fear in that.

00:58:46.900 There's a bit of, like, do or die.

00:58:49.200 But at the same time, there's also a real passion you have for what you do.

00:58:53.680 In other words, you're an artist.

00:58:54.720 And so artists enjoy making art.

00:58:56.300 But is it about shifting the balance of what's the fire?

00:58:59.440 Like, where's the fire coming from?

00:59:00.560 Is the fire coming from a place of fear?

00:59:02.060 Is the fire coming from a place of love?

00:59:03.460 I mean, do those go back and forth for you from time to time in different seasons?

00:59:07.560 No, I used to get very intense performance anxiety when I was first acting.

00:59:12.420 And it was debilitating.

00:59:14.340 I would go to auditions, and I'd want to throw up, but I'd be shaking.

00:59:17.600 And then even when I got jobs, and I don't know how I was getting jobs based on how nervous I was in those auditions,

00:59:22.640 but I would then be on a set, and it was like I couldn't think or see, and I felt like I was going to pass out.

00:59:28.480 And I was fighting that for years.

00:59:31.160 And you talk about fear or excitement.

00:59:34.520 And I remember reading something that took a series of tests with athletes, performers, musicians, actors, whatever,

00:59:42.940 anyone in a sort of adrenaline-fueled sort of space.

00:59:46.640 And they said, okay, before the event, are you nervous or excited?

00:59:50.560 And some of them said they were scared out of their minds.

00:59:52.900 Some of them said they were pumped.

00:59:54.620 The interesting thing was they all had the same physical response, elevated heart, pulse, et cetera, clammy hands, short of breath.

01:00:01.800 And the only difference was how they labeled that feeling.

01:00:05.760 And so for me, that was a real light bulb moment.

01:00:07.740 And I thought, oh, okay.

01:00:09.840 So when this feeling comes out, about to walk onto a set, I programmed myself to say, uh-oh, this is bad.

01:00:17.360 This is fear.

01:00:18.120 This is a negative.

01:00:19.500 I then went, nope, this is a positive.

01:00:21.520 My spidey senses are up now.

01:00:22.800 I'm going to be able to think faster, react quicker.

01:00:24.460 I'm going to see clearer.

01:00:25.560 My vision will be sharp.

01:00:27.400 And it was, and that was all it was.

01:00:28.520 It was a decision then to see it differently.

01:00:30.480 Then sort of as time goes on, I think the fear does have its place, though.

01:00:36.640 I think you sort of, people talk, you know, the fear pushes you, your purpose pulls you.

01:00:41.220 And both of them need to have equal sort of relevance in the conversation.

01:00:46.180 And it's a bloody good motivator, too.

01:00:49.060 You know, half of these challenges, my fear of looking ridiculous if I didn't complete this task or the fact of the episode wouldn't have worked, you know, that kept me going.

01:00:58.260 But also the sort of purpose and why I was doing it kept me going.

01:01:01.740 So I think they both deserve conversation.

01:01:04.160 Just it's about balance.

01:01:05.580 And if either of them get too much attention, then, you know, you have too much of, oh, my purpose and my thing.

01:01:11.920 There can be a lack of humility there, you know.

01:01:13.700 The fear, I feel, has allowed me to have more of a self-deprecating sort of sense of humor about myself and the world and the work.

01:01:20.420 And hopefully it kept me humbled.

01:01:22.920 What was the first role you had where you allowed yourself to think, I'm going to make it?

01:01:29.540 Well, it's interesting.

01:01:30.200 The first Thor film, I thought, great.

01:01:33.200 I mean, the game, certainly.

01:01:34.400 Which year was the first Thor film?

01:01:36.080 Oh, God, was it 2010, I think?

01:01:38.380 Yep.

01:01:39.240 I thought, this is good.

01:01:40.020 I'm kind of in the mix.

01:01:41.100 But I didn't know if the film was going to work.

01:01:43.020 I didn't know if we were going to do an Avengers film.

01:01:44.700 And you weren't the first choice or were you, wasn't there something funny in the audition there?

01:01:48.860 I auditioned initially and didn't get a call back.

01:01:51.440 I got some pretty bad feedback.

01:01:52.760 What was the feedback?

01:01:53.620 Just no good.

01:01:55.100 Really direct feedback.

01:01:56.800 Really like minimal feedback, which is like, we're not even going to give you any sort of, you know, constructive criticism or anything.

01:02:02.020 It was just kind of minimal and nothing.

01:02:03.960 And I was shooting a film in Vancouver and my little brother calls me up and said, oh, they're going to fly me out from Australia to LA for this film Thor.

01:02:11.740 And I was like, what?

01:02:12.400 And he was like, yeah, I don't know, I've seen an audition on a tape and I'm going over.

01:02:16.320 I'm like, oh, that's awesome, man.

01:02:18.220 Congrats.

01:02:18.680 Wow.

01:02:19.240 What do you know?

01:02:20.160 And then the trades, I think Variety or Deadline, come out and had like the six final guys for Thor.

01:02:25.500 And Liam was one of those people.

01:02:27.560 And it was with Joss Whedon and Drew Goddard on Cabin in the Woods.

01:02:31.980 And they both said, what the hell's going on here?

01:02:34.060 Is this your brother?

01:02:34.820 And I go, yeah.

01:02:35.180 And he goes, why are you in the mix?

01:02:36.660 You should be Thor.

01:02:37.480 And I was like, I don't know, I didn't get a call back.

01:02:39.320 So none of them ended up getting it.

01:02:41.620 And they reopened the casting.

01:02:43.000 And I got a chance to do an audition.

01:02:45.160 And I sent in a tape.

01:02:47.720 And I was called back in to meet with Ken Branner and do the audition.

01:02:51.220 And I just had a very different attitude about it.

01:02:52.920 I didn't put anyone on a pedestal like I did the first time.

01:02:55.880 I had like a little pissed off.

01:02:57.920 Yeah, that my brother had gotten there and I hadn't.

01:03:00.080 And it was a good motivation.

01:03:01.800 And it's a bad perspective, you know.

01:03:03.020 And then I was able to walk into that room and give the best version of whatever I had

01:03:07.720 to offer as opposed to people pleasing and going and going, is this what you want?

01:03:12.000 Or is it this?

01:03:12.580 Is it this way?

01:03:13.040 And then, you know, there's nothing.

01:03:14.380 There's a lack of strength there, I think.

01:03:15.640 They needed the character to be assertive.

01:03:17.280 And so I had a lot more sort of presence in that space.

01:03:21.460 And I did the first time around.

01:03:23.100 And then got the part.

01:03:25.300 How long does an audition take?

01:03:27.260 Usually you have a few days to learn it.

01:03:29.160 Sometimes they call you at lunchtime and they say, come in this afternoon and read.

01:03:33.120 And when you're actually there in front of them?

01:03:35.040 Again, depending on how well or bad it goes, it could be five minutes.

01:03:39.420 It could be two minutes.

01:03:40.180 It could be an hour.

01:03:41.560 I've had like people answer the phone midway through my audition.

01:03:44.440 When I first got to town, I'd just be like, yeah, yeah, cool.

01:03:47.040 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:47.680 And I'm like, I'm supposed to be still going.

01:03:49.840 And just like, yep, that's great.

01:03:51.220 Thank you very much.

01:03:51.840 We'll call you.

01:03:53.540 It's brutal.

01:03:54.820 You get enough of them and it's either become numb to it or it destroys you.

01:03:58.840 How'd you hear about Rush?

01:04:00.520 So Ron Howard was making the film.

01:04:02.900 I didn't know anything about Formula One.

01:04:04.600 It's because you didn't know me.

01:04:05.560 I didn't know you.

01:04:06.540 And my agent had called me and said, oh, you should do an audition.

01:04:09.720 And Ron said, oh, look, I've seen Thor.

01:04:11.780 He's great, but he's not right for the character, you know.

01:04:14.440 He won't fit in the Formula One car.

01:04:16.180 I said, well, I'm not that size.

01:04:17.520 And he said, yeah, it's OK.

01:04:18.960 And I said, I'm doing an audition.

01:04:20.460 And I watched an interview with James Hunt.

01:04:22.300 And my hair was kind of long enough that I could kind of style it exactly how his was.

01:04:26.080 And I had, you know, been practicing the accent and did an audition.

01:04:29.680 And he saw it and went, OK, cool.

01:04:32.400 Had he already picked Daniel for Nicky?

01:04:34.800 I think he had, yeah.

01:04:35.500 I mean, you know my feelings on that film.

01:04:37.840 Yeah.

01:04:38.320 Like, if you were getting a dollar for every time that film got watched by me, you'd be even more wealthy.

01:04:45.020 I'm so thankful.

01:04:48.080 It's such a good movie.

01:04:49.300 You would know it better than I do at this point.

01:04:51.060 I haven't seen it since the premiere.

01:04:53.020 Are you kidding me?

01:04:54.400 It's hard to watch yourself, you know.

01:04:56.400 So you don't take your kids to Thor?

01:04:58.180 Or they don't watch it around the house?

01:04:59.400 I know you take them to the premiere, but.

01:05:00.400 No, I take them to, OK, well, that was the first premiere I took them to, but I'll watch it once or twice.

01:05:05.860 Or if I'm producing it, then I'm, you know, stick through it a bit more.

01:05:08.880 But, and it should be uncomfortable, I think.

01:05:10.860 There's something narcissistic about enjoying it too much.

01:05:13.640 So if we're sitting here in five years and your life is better than it is today,

01:05:19.560 especially in accordance with the final episode of Limitless, meaning you're running less,

01:05:25.260 the balance between purpose and fear is more in favor of purpose than fear.

01:05:30.760 You feel more connected to your kids, your family.

01:05:34.360 What has to be true?

01:05:35.720 What are you doing?

01:05:37.160 This is another thing that came up in the episode.

01:05:38.840 I just want to sort of clarify.

01:05:40.520 I don't feel like I've been doing anything wrong as much as I've just been in the storm of it.

01:05:45.800 You know, I have a beautiful relationship with my kids and my wife and my family.

01:05:49.900 And I'll be there with them, but my brain is pulled in a million other places.

01:05:54.140 And so for things to be even better would just be about.

01:05:58.960 Is it just about a state of mind or does it mean?

01:06:01.740 It's both.

01:06:02.260 Because in the episode, I was talking about this and I said, I was being asked to imagine

01:06:07.540 what my death would look like.

01:06:10.540 And if this was my final moment, who would I have around me?

01:06:13.120 Where would I be?

01:06:14.260 And I realized it's in the living room with my family and friends.

01:06:17.660 And that's every other weekend.

01:06:19.320 You know, I have it.

01:06:20.140 So it was as much a moment of it's already right here in front of you.

01:06:25.120 Change your attitude.

01:06:26.740 And also, in addition to that was, OK, I want to do this even more now.

01:06:31.520 And I have an opportunity to do that because I'm not in the fight or the sprint anymore.

01:06:36.200 So it would be to be more curated with my choices and have more time pre and post the film to

01:06:43.160 prepare and decompress as opposed to just piling one after the other.

01:06:47.240 Does that mean more directing, shifting the balance a little bit?

01:06:50.480 I think it's who the directors are.

01:06:52.320 Working with people that are at the top of their game.

01:06:55.200 And I've been so lucky.

01:06:56.060 I've worked with some wonderful people.

01:06:57.660 Just work with George Miller.

01:06:58.640 And to continue to work with individuals like that where I'm learning from them, it's a

01:07:03.620 collaboration, but they're at the helm.

01:07:06.700 They're steering the ship.

01:07:07.520 I don't have to feel like I've got to police anyone else there, you know, is the dream.

01:07:11.580 And then you're inspired by those people and you're doing it for the right reasons.

01:07:14.920 It's from an artistic space and an expression as opposed to a financial one.

01:07:19.860 Oh, that's a good payday.

01:07:20.960 Script sucks, but I get paid well, you know, which I've done a few times, you know.

01:07:25.040 And so, yeah, to be more curated in my choices and have more stillness and more calm either

01:07:31.100 side of it.

01:07:32.360 Chris, you know, I think about the last three years and I think about when we started this

01:07:35.400 thing in January.

01:07:36.680 For me, one of the most unexpected joys of this, I really only did this because of Darren.

01:07:41.240 You know, Darren and I were and remained such good friends and the chance to do something

01:07:45.340 fun like this with him was the motivation.

01:07:47.720 But I think a very pleasant surprise for me has been meeting you and meeting all the people

01:07:51.720 around you.

01:07:52.220 And it gives me great comfort as now someone who's become a close friend of yours to know

01:07:57.120 that you are surrounded by these amazing people like Ben and Aaron and Zoc and your family

01:08:02.000 and your parents and your brothers.

01:08:03.560 I mean, you are rich, Chris.

01:08:05.540 You are rich in people.

01:08:07.560 And I suspect that's actually probably your greatest asset.

01:08:10.160 So it's been a real privilege to be a part of that.

01:08:12.660 Well, it's been wonderful getting to know you too, mate.

01:08:15.400 It's been the biggest joys that people I've met through this experience and the knowledge,

01:08:19.600 one thing with the friendships, the most important.

01:08:21.360 So thank you, buddy.

01:08:22.580 Yeah, man.

01:08:22.900 Thanks for sitting down with me.

01:08:23.880 Yeah.

01:08:25.260 Thank you for listening to this week's episode of The Drive.

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The Peter Attia Drive - December 12, 2022

#234 ‒ Chris Hemsworth on Limitless, longevity, and happiness

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