#318 ‒ Cycling phenom and Tour de France champion Tadej Pogačar reveals his training strategies, on-bike nutrition, and future aspirations
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Summary
In this episode, I interview Tadej Pogacar, a professional cyclist and three-time winner of the Tour de France in 2020, 2021, and most recently, in 2024. In this conversation, we talk about his remarkable 2020 season where he took the world by storm and won one of the most dramatic finishes that race has ever seen, and the highs and lows of his career since that time. We talk about how he trains, how nutrition has evolved on the bike, and why that allows cyclists today to do things that were previously thought impossible.
Transcript
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Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Drive podcast. I'm your host, Peter Atiyah. This podcast,
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of a subscription. If you want to learn more about the benefits of our premium membership,
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head over to peteratiyahmd.com forward slash subscribe. My guest this week is Tadej Pogacar,
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a professional cyclist and three-time winner of the Tour de France in 2020, 2021, and most recently,
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2024. For those who may not know his story, Tadej, who today is just 26 years old, has already been
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compared to the most legendary all-round cyclist of all time, Eddie Merckx. He's generally referred
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to now as the second coming of Merckx, whose nickname was the cannibal for the manner in which
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he devoured the competition. Tadej was a very successful junior rider, winning some of the
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most prominent races prior to his breakthrough year in 2019. When he signed on with the UAE team,
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he won the Tour of California that year and won three stages of the Vuelta a España,
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one of the three Grand Tours en route to a overall third place finish, as well as the young rider
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title. And then, of course, in 2020, he was the unexpected winner of the Tour de France. This is
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something we will discuss in detail in this podcast. Now, since that time, Tadej has basically rewritten
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the record books. He's done things that people generally have thought, frankly, impossible in the
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modern era of cycling, largely because of the specialization of the sport today. Typically,
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cyclists will focus on one type of race. And yet, Tadej has demonstrated an appetite to basically
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conquer everything he does. That means he's competing not just in Grand Tours and shorter
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stage races, but also some of the most grueling one-day races of all time. In fact, there are five
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such races. He has already won three of them. And of course, we discuss his aspirations around the
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others. 2024 was kind of a momentous year. He first won the Giro d'Italia and the Tour de France,
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a double feat that has not been accomplished for nearly 30 years. And he set a record-winning 12
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stages across both of these. He is currently the number one ranked cyclist in the world,
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a record that he's held for about 170 weeks and counting. And he is going to attempt in a week
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to do something that, again, many people thought would never be possible in the modern era of
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cycling, which is to complete something known as the Triple Crown, which is winning the Giro,
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the Tour, which he's already done, and then managing to win the World Championship road race.
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I have wanted to interview Tadej for some time. And of course, the opportunity of him racing at the
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GP Montreal, just two weeks out from the World Championship, was remarkable and fortuitous. So I
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was very grateful to have his time. In this conversation, we talk about his remarkable 2020
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season where he took the world by storm and won the Tour de France in one of the most dramatic
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finishes that race has ever seen. We talk about the highs and lows of his career since that time.
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We talk about how he trains, how nutrition has evolved on the bike, and why that allows cyclists
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today to do things that were previously thought impossible. This is a bit of an interesting
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podcast if you are not a cyclist, because some of the things that he talks about are simply difficult
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to wrap your mind around. But hopefully my reaction to those things, for example, his power numbers,
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will give you a sense of the fact that I'm really talking to one of the most fit human beings on the
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planet at this moment. So without further delay, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Tadej Pogacar.
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Tadej, thank you so much for making time. Obviously, you just raced yesterday, you've got a race
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tomorrow, and we're two weeks out from the World Championship. So to give us any time is amazing.
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A lot of people listening will know everything about you as I do, or they're super fans. But
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there's also probably a number of people listening who might not appreciate the magnitude of what
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you've accomplished in a very short period of time. I learned about you in 2019 as the most
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promising young cyclist that was coming up, but I don't think many people, probably myself included,
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expected what happened in 2020 at the Tour de France. What were your expectations going into the
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I was not expecting at all to win in 2020. It was COVID year. We had pretty good trainings,
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not too many races, so not too much to prove no. In 2019 was a breakthrough year for me,
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but then 2020 came and it was like a long period, doing nothing, just training. We went to the tour
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with Fabio Aro and me as two leaders. Yeah, it turns out in the end, I was fighting for podium place,
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for second place in the last week. I was really happy with that. And the final time trial came and
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it all turned the table around and yeah, I won the tour. It was unbelievable. I think
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still a lot of people don't believe it happened. So yeah.
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Well, obviously people at the time of that final time trial said, we haven't seen a race like this
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since Le Monde and Laurent Fignon in, I think it was 89 when he had that come behind. But what stage
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in 2020 did you realize, I'm going to be on the podium?
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On the stage called a loss, I think I was sure I'm going to be second because this was the queen
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stage and I come behind Roglic just 15 seconds. Lopez win that stage on high mountain. So yeah,
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that was the day I knew that this is it now. But I also think Roglic thought that day that he's
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Yeah. So going into that last time trial, what was your team telling you in the radio at the time
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checks or even before the time checks in terms of your delta per Roglic on a kilometer basis?
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Roglic was starting behind me and yeah, the time checks were like, I think two time checks on the
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flat before the final climb. I got the times. I don't know who was leading the time on the flat
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section. I got that time and how much I think I was even behind. Then when the climb came,
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there were so many people. I did not hear a word on in the radio. I just went, we thought I would go
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Did you feel anything different that day? I mean, did it feel like better than some of the
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other stages or was it simply a matter of he had deteriorated more than you across 20 days?
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Because it was the last hard stage. The next day is just Sean's Elysee just rolled through.
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It's still hard race, but yeah, if everything goes normal, your GC stays the same. Yeah, it was
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okay. Final time trial. I just need to be relaxed. Second place, white jersey. They were preparing
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white bike for me for next day for ceremony and it was cool. It was dream.
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I didn't feel nothing. No, we were really chilled out. I knew the parkour's really well because I did
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recon before with Alan Piper and Michael Berg. We did a lot of work on that. And when the day came,
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yeah, I was just mad. There was, everybody was happy around and there was no tension, no stress,
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nothing. And we just roll with it. And then it was one of the best days I ever had.
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Yeah. It's a little hard to believe. Do you remember what your average power was over that
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Yeah. On the flat, I had a power meter and a unit. And then on the climb, I had nothing because
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I wanted to have a 6.8 kilograms bike. So as light as possible by regulations. On the flat,
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I went, I think, 380 to 390. So nothing crazy on the flat, but I guess I was just going fast enough
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to be in that range. What was your weight by that point of the tour? Were you 60 kilos?
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I think that year, in 2020, I was, yeah, like 66 even, I think.
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I come to the tour with 64 and a half and then 65 and 65 and a half, then jumping from around 65
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through all the tour. So 21 is another amazing year. And in 22 and 23, you have great race,
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but a couple of stages where it goes wrong. In 22, I guess the first stage where it was a struggle,
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I called the ground on, we went Telegraph, Galiby down, Brianzon, almost to Brianzon.
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Yeah. Where I made my mistake. I mean, yeah, shouldn't follow Roglic immediately there
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on the Telegraph. He tech already on Telegraph. I think, yeah, who was, it was Tijbenu and then
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Laporte with him on the downhill and they just flew down. And when we start the Galiby, they
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just go one by one. I had to respond, I think, eight or nine attacks.
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Yeah. I was, I was really good, but I think, yeah, if you do eight sprints, no, it takes
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too much. And then I tried to respond by being stupid, no, and I tried to drop everybody from
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the wheel on Galiby, but then I knew that Wout Van Aert is also in the front and it's
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checkmate anyway, no? So yeah, that was just stupid for me.
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And how much of that, I mean, just from a nutritional standpoint, did you feel depleted? Did you feel
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like you didn't have enough, were you short a bottle on that stage or something?
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the legs. You cannot eat enough when you do so much, so much power, you do so much
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attacking, you cannot take more food than you can, no? So I think we had quite good plant
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nutrition and everything. But if you do too much with your body, you cannot replace that.
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When you're training, do you try to simulate that extent of attacking and recovering? And
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obviously you can't replicate that fully in a training session.
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Since I was junior, even before I knew what's going to be per course like, then find around my
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home, similar type and then just do repetitions of one climb, like how many times it's going to be in
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the race. And now sometimes I still do the same. I just see, for example, here in Montreal tomorrow
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is around four minutes, climb to five minutes and two short ones. So you just try to do as many as
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possible repetitions in the trainings as well, and trying to simulate the race.
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What kind of climb do you like the most? What kind of climb do you like the least in terms of grade
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in duration? Well, depends on the shape also. I really like around 20 minute climbs, quite steep.
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10 to 12% or not that steep? Yeah, I would say now that because we go really fast, 7% to 8%,
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it's already a lot of drafting. But then what's more than 9%, I think is pretty cool because
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there's not much draft. So you can do what you want, basically.
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Do you have many climbs near you that replicate where you can do 20 minutes at 8%, 9%, 10%?
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No, not really. Not really. But five to 10 minutes, yes. 9%, 10%. In Slovenia, also just around 10
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minutes with steep ones, but 20 minutes, that's quite rare. And then how much does the heat factor
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into it? And how much are you able to replicate that in training? I think heat training became a thing
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now in cycling a little bit, especially this year, maybe last two, three years. I mean,
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we try to overheat the body in the training session or in a home trainer. It is a big factor,
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especially for me. I felt always that I struggle when it's super hot. But yeah, if you try to train
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this, you can be better. Yeah. I mean, I guess I could imagine if you're on a trainer at home,
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it's easy to replicate it. Otherwise, you just have to find the environment at the elevation altitude.
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This year, 2024, remarkable year for you, winning the Giro so comfortably, winning the Tour quite
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comfortably, but seemed to be your strongest year. I mean, people said, well, Jonas crashed early in
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the season. But the truth of it is Jonas' times were pretty remarkable this year. I mean, he seemed to
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put out very good numbers. So it seemed to be just as much a function of you riding even better this
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year than Jonas coming in injured as much as he was. Do you feel that that's the case?
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Jonas had a big injury this year. I don't know how exactly his recovery went because they kept it
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quite quiet. When he once got on the bike, I think he could start immediately training quite normal
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now, for sure, at first, a little by little. But I think it affects on a three-week stage race. It
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affects that preparation. And yeah, you don't have the capacity to go three weeks. You have the power,
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like 10 minutes best power output or five minutes, 20 minutes. You can do one day, but then maybe your
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body is not used to go another day. So I think that was the case with Jonas this year. He had a great
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power. He got great numbers, but then maybe he lacked this three-week extent to perform.
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I feel like every cycling fan just feels that we have this incredible treat where we have
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both of you as these remarkable cyclists. You're both so young. We're going to have many more years
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of you guys racing each other. Do you feel you're going to continue to race the Tour for many,
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many more years? I mean, obviously people are saying, look, you could break every record here.
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You could break the five Tours, the seven Tours. I mean, you could do it all. Is it your intention
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to keep riding Grand Tours and specifically the Tour de France?
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Tour de France is the biggest race of cycling. So yeah, to keep being on the top, you need to do
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Tour de France. Yeah, I think battling between me and Jonas, pushing each other and always the tour is
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the test who is better now of that year. And I think I will keep on riding the tour until once I
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don't enjoy this stress anymore, maybe I hung up the bicycle in a garage or somewhere.
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Something seemed different in you this year. You seemed stronger. What changed in your training
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between 23 and 24? Well, I didn't change only training on the bike. I also implement core training
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more and more outside of the bike stuff. I got more into the details of nutrition as well. I'm getting
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older. So yeah, I'm not so obsessed anymore with just going cake on cake or just eating shit now.
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Wait, does that mean that five years ago, you weren't paying much attention to your nutrition
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and you were kind of eating as much as you wanted? Yeah, for sure. When you're a kid,
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you can eat what you want and you don't gain fat. I mean, you don't gain too much because you're
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evolving, you're growing up. When you're a kid, you can eat what you want.
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So you're at the age right now, because you're going to be 26 in a week.
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Do you need to watch your weight in the off season now?
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I mean, my all year looks more or less the same. I never restrict too much or I never say,
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okay, I cannot eat cake or I cannot eat chocolate, but all in measurements and when the time is right.
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Because if you restrict too much and you don't touch chocolate for a month or for six months,
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then one time you will break and you will go crazy. And I think that's not good relationship
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with food. So you need to have balance also with the bad food also now. Then when it comes off season,
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I don't have the cravings. I'm like, okay, now I go vacation. I have nice food, good food,
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quality food and not crazy amount. So I don't gain so much weight.
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What's the heaviest you'll be in the off season? 70?
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No, like 69, maybe 70 after when you wake up after party or something when
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our like big, big dinner with birthday party or something. No, when you eat just a lot,
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but that's just also a lot of times just water weight or something, but around 69 would be maximum,
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Do you have a sense of how many grams of carbohydrate you can drink in an hour when you're training?
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In drink, we have either 30 grams or 60 grams per bottles.
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No, I honestly, I like the 30 grams of grams because then I can eat more. But when it's a
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hard stage, it's better having 60 grams in the bottle and then you can eat less. I mean,
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still no, because for hard stages, you need to get around 120 grams per hour. For easier stages
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from 60 to 90 is enough. So basically we aim for that per hour.
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Was that easy for you to get to or did you have to train your gut to be able to eat that much?
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At first, it seemed like five years ago, 120 grams per hour, that's impossible, but
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We have a sponsor, Enervit, with our nutritionists. He designed really good gels and the drink
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that's easy on the gut. Since they created this product, I don't have any stomach problems.
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Five years ago, I would always go shit my pants after the stage races or long races. And now,
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And do you think that's more because you've gotten used to it or do you think it's more
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because your nutritionist has figured out a recipe that works for you guys?
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Yeah, I think it needs to be a good ratio between glucose, fructose, and all other stuff in the
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gels. And it needs to be a good quality of what's inside. So you get used to it for sure.
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When you're training right now, I don't mean right now, I mean when you're preparing,
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say, for the tour. How do you define your energy systems? You define them more by heart rate,
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I've been training with heart rate monitors since I'm, I don't know, 12 years old, 10 years old.
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So I would say I know how my heart rate responds when I'm tired or when I'm good. So yeah, I could go
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by heart rate only. But it's always good to compare heart rate to power. But power meters are not so
00:19:01.020
We have a Shimano power meter. Yeah, you always need to be careful with the temperatures of the
00:19:05.980
outside, the calibration, everything. And yeah, sometimes it can be off. You need to be careful
00:19:11.540
about this in my experiences. Yeah, the best is to train on your home roads, where you can also look
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the speed, the VAM, how fast you're moving. What kind of VAM are you able to reach when you're
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training? On a training, seven, seven and a half percent. If you go all out, I think it's like
00:19:37.000
That's just incredible. I know that people listening might not appreciate that. I'm not going
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to take time to explain what VAM is. If they know what it is, they understand how crazy that is.
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If they don't, they can look it up. I'm happy when I hit 1000, by the way, just for comparison.
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Yeah, it depends on the gradient. No, but what I was trying to say is...
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Yeah. You see all these three things, the speed, heart rate and power. Then you see how you feel and
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And how much of your time are you spending at a low intensity, whether we call it zone,
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zone two, whether we just call it aerobic, how much of your total training time would be
00:20:19.040
I love riding zone two. Yeah. Around where I live in Monaco, it's really hard to get big time
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in zone two because there's a lot of climbing and then you have all the downhills.
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Yeah. I try to hit really high zone two on the climbs. They are like 20 to 40 minutes long and
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then you recover in downhill. But when I go home to Slovenia or somewhere else or in Spain when we're
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training in Calpe or somewhere where it's more flat, I really like to stay five hours in zone two.
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Yeah. And some trainings I would love to do just zone two and going nonstop.
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What is your heart rate at zone two approximately?
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When I'm fatigued, it's 140, 145. When I'm a bit more fresh, around 150 to 155.
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And how many watts are you putting out at that heart rate?
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Again, I know it's just hard for people who are listening to us to understand what that means.
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320 to 340 watts for five hours, keeping lactate below two, keeping heart rate at 140 is really
00:21:23.440
That's also another thing. In Monaco on the climbs where I can recover after, you cannot look zone
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two and say, this is your zone two because you did two 10 minutes tests on this power.
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Yeah. If you're doing five hour ride, your zone two after five hours, maybe not be your zone two
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anymore. You always need to know at what time this zone two will not be your zone two anymore,
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because on the flat, you will not recover. And five hours of riding of 320 to 340 for me is also
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next day, I'm not riding the bike. So when I go on flat for longer, I drop power to 290 to 300.
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Do you track your heart rate or heart rate variability in the morning? Do those numbers
00:22:08.600
give you any indication of how you're going to train that day or race?
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Yeah, I started this in 2020 at first. I was especially in COVID time, lockdown this,
00:22:19.880
me and my girlfriend, we were doing that, but yeah, I did not find it really interesting or
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helpful. But this year I started using more to track HRE heart rate in the night. And yeah,
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I must say that I quite like it now to track it, but yeah, it's not something that...
00:22:38.060
It can be misleading. It can get in your head a little bit and you don't want it to tell you how
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It's almost better for somebody else to look at it and tell you after.
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Well, my girlfriend, she had a really good method for a while, especially in races. She don't open
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in the morning. She opened it after the race. So she checked after the race, what was her heart rate
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variability in the morning, not in the morning. If it would be really low, she would stress and then
00:23:05.600
How much variation when you do look at your heart rate variability, how much variation do
00:23:09.220
you have between a high day and a low day of HRV?
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On a really good day, I'd say my HRV would be, I don't know, 120, 130. Maximum some days can
00:23:23.940
On the lower end would be also, I don't know, 35 could be, yeah.
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But is that from drinking alcohol the night before maybe?
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In the races, in the tour, for example, and Giro was quite steady around from 80 to 110
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That's pretty amazing. And then resting heart rate, do you care at all about that or how much
00:23:48.680
heart rate range do you have? So what's the lowest you're going to be at and then what
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is your maximum heart rate now versus five years ago?
00:23:54.780
The lowest I hit since I'm tracking, I think was 37. My average, I would say is like in
00:24:02.540
the night, I think 43, 42. But some days I could woke up with 48, 49. If you're sick
00:24:11.480
or really fatigued, maybe even over 50. The max heart rate, yeah, when I was junior, I could
00:24:23.400
Now, yesterday, 203. So it was still pretty high. So I'm pretty happy about it.
00:24:32.640
It's been a while since I tested the last time VO2 max, yeah.
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Yeah. I'm going to bet it's pretty high, yeah. Do you do an FTP test out of season just
00:24:42.720
as a way to track it, like a true 20-minute test?
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True 20-minute test. Also, it's been a while since I've done one. I did this year fatigue
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test when you repeat eight minutes of one power. I mean, going higher and higher power and then
00:24:58.640
also all out. Normally, we do a home trainer test in the camp in December. It's long from
00:25:06.200
one hour to one hour 30. Depends how long you want to test to which zone you want to test.
00:25:11.880
But yeah, normally around one hour 20 for me, 10-minute steps on the home trainer. And every
00:25:17.940
five minutes, you take lactate from the year to check for the zones. And I like to do it also at
00:25:23.980
home with my girlfriend. One time I do for her.
00:25:28.360
Yeah. For people listening, your girlfriend is obviously a very competitive professional
00:25:36.280
Oh, man. I don't want to put them in cycling though.
00:25:40.000
Well, that would be a good idea actually, because they would probably have a very hard time filling
00:25:45.100
their parents' shoes. So they should pick up another sport.
00:25:50.560
Okay. Changing topics for a second. If we just think about three of the most epic climbs in the
00:25:55.200
Tour de France. Well, for me, I would say Ventoux, Alpe d'Huez, Golibier, but what would be the most
00:26:00.400
epic climbs? And what I really want to know is how do they compare in difficulty? Assuming you're equally
00:26:04.820
fresh on all days, like same situation. If you have to race up each, pick those three, if I said
00:26:13.200
Well, of those three, Golibier is the easiest. Then I would say Ventoux, second. No, Alpe d'Huez,
00:26:22.860
I think it's the hardest. Yeah. Also because of the nature.
00:26:25.860
Because of the wind at the top and stuff like that?
00:26:27.760
Wind, heat, can be no. Yeah. Alpe d'Huez, it's hard, but I think it's shorter.
00:26:37.920
Also this. From Brian's own side, it's like dragging up in the valley and then when you
00:26:42.460
turn right, I mean, it's quite high altitude, but it's still quite a regular climb. From
00:26:47.740
the other side, you have Telegraph and then small downhill and climbing again. But it's
00:26:52.040
like, these are Coles from Alpes. They're all more or less the same. Golibier, Golibier,
00:26:57.800
Abonet. These are almost identical climbs, so you're used to those. Alpe d'Huez is just
00:27:03.140
mythical. You have way harder climbs than Alpe d'Huez for sure.
00:27:06.840
What is the hardest climb, you think, in the modern tour?
00:27:09.640
For me, personally, Col de Lose would be the hardest. I think everybody would agree on this.
00:27:16.380
Well, you had a very difficult day there in 23.
00:27:19.260
That was what, stage 18? Was it the queen stage?
00:27:22.340
Yeah, it was stage 17, I think, or 16. But yeah, I did it twice and first time, okay,
00:27:28.840
I did good, but then I felt really tired after it. It was really exhausting climb. And yeah,
00:27:35.620
last year was, we did Lose and then small downhill and to Alte port in what's called this town,
00:27:46.060
This is something about you today that is very, it's very interesting. I've never seen a cyclist
00:27:51.920
who in defeat is so gracious and it's clear that you're upset, but you demonstrate. I mean,
00:27:58.560
I remember after that stage, you just thanked your team. You just said, thank God I had a great team
00:28:03.680
around me today or I would have come off the podium. That's remarkable sportsmanship, but how
00:28:07.900
are you able to do that? If I put myself in your shoes, I would just be so pissed off. I wouldn't
00:28:12.460
even want to talk to the media. I would just want to be locked in the trailer, you know?
00:28:16.060
It's not individual sport, it's the team sport. And the guys sacrifice everything to be there in the tour,
00:28:21.920
to help one guy to win the tour. In this day, we could really see how the guys reacted to me when I
00:28:30.280
dropped. They helped me, they support me emotionally, physically, whatever, no? It really felt like I let them
00:28:38.560
down and I was feeling just, yeah, I was devastated. I was upset, angry, but I couldn't change it. No,
00:28:45.780
so I just went with it. I was feeling down, but yeah, you cannot change nothing. And then,
00:28:51.820
yeah, when we had dinner with the guys was already better and they really helped me through that days.
00:28:57.700
What did you think about after the 23 tour? You'd now come in second twice. And my guess is there
00:29:05.160
were people out there saying, hey, maybe this guy isn't the next Eddie Merckx. I'm sure you don't
00:29:10.380
care about that, whether you're the next Eddie Merckx or not, but how did you think about that? And how
00:29:15.180
did it motivate you over the winter coming into 2024, where you set off on this, again, very aggressive
00:29:20.600
schedule to win huge races going into the tour? Yeah, it's frustrating. It was frustrating. Yeah,
00:29:27.400
I was anxious. I was stressed and I was not feeling great last year after the tour, but
00:29:32.280
I evaluate what went wrong, what was the mistakes, what I can do better. Yeah, it all went back to
00:29:40.120
the crash from Liège, preparation to the tour and everything else. It was, it built up everything and
00:29:46.640
yeah. Psychologically, I mean, did you have to get some confidence back? I mean, did you? Yeah,
00:29:52.200
for sure. I got some confidence back already on stage 20 when I win three days after that. World
00:29:57.920
Championship was like just a small patch on a wound, I would say. Third place, great racing, but it
00:30:04.320
didn't feel enough. And then, um, yeah, winning Lombardy was really big for me last year. Again,
00:30:12.220
for sure people listening who might not understand that there are these five huge classic
00:30:16.380
races that normally the people who win the Tour de France do not win those races and vice versa.
00:30:23.060
This is a totally different sport. It's sort of like, I don't know, the person who wins the
00:30:27.920
marathon winning the 10k. I mean, even though it's not even remotely the right comparison, but yes,
00:30:32.280
they're both on a bike, but it's different. And you've now won three of the five classics.
00:30:38.720
Yeah. I mean, Lombardy is the closest one that Grand Tour winner can win. The other four is,
00:30:44.080
they're really unlikely. Maybe Liege, Bastogne, Liege, but also it's really hard for a Grand Tour
00:30:56.960
Sanremo is the one that is going to send me to grave, I have a feeling.
00:31:02.800
Yeah, probably. I'm getting so close, but it's yet so far, it's unbelievable.
00:31:07.880
To be clear, this is a goal. You want to win all five?
00:31:10.420
I want to win first world championships, Sanremo, and then we can see if there is a space for
00:31:19.980
Yeah, of course. Vuelta, my first Grand Tour now in 2019, the podium was breakthrough for me
00:31:27.400
with three stages, white jersey, and I want to come back and seal the deal with the red jersey for sure.
00:31:34.840
What about the Olympics? Where does that rank on your goals?
00:31:39.040
Well, it's in Los Angeles in four years. I really hope for a nice parkour. Again, climbing
00:31:45.520
parkour like was in Tokyo or even harder. Yeah, we'll see when they announce it how eager I will
00:31:55.860
It's hard timing right on the heels of the tour.
00:31:58.720
You know, for other sports, in some other sports, they train four years just for Olympics. And then
00:32:06.000
this is the peak of career. And in cycling, the peak of your career needs to be Tour de France
00:32:13.040
It's not as high a priority as one of the worlds, obviously.
00:32:18.180
Do you watch... Have you seen any of the Netflix series? Netflix has done the two specials on the
00:32:23.180
Yeah. I watched the first season. I didn't watch the second season. I watched because I was in a
00:32:28.560
training camp. I didn't have anything better to watch. But yeah, for people like us, when we are
00:32:36.720
It's fun for me to be able to watch it with my wife or with friends if they're not cycling fans.
00:32:41.360
So they're not going to watch the tour with me and stuff like that. One of the things that people
00:32:45.760
who don't watch cycling and frankly, people like me who do still cannot believe is how you guys are
00:32:51.120
able to ride while fans are encroaching the roads. What's the closest call you've had with a fan?
00:32:57.660
First, yeah, the fans are amazing. When I was a kid, I always wanted that feeling to ride
00:33:03.060
through the group of fans like this. And now I enjoy it the most. Yeah, the closest I've been,
00:33:09.400
I don't know, in Kolder Lose was in 2020, was some close calls with Slovenian fan.
00:33:16.520
Yeah, but normally you need to watch the flags. The flags are really tricky one because they are
00:33:24.580
waiting in the middle of the road and they move it the last time. And sometimes they move differently
00:33:30.040
the flag. And when I'm watching this with my wife, she gets so mad at the TV. She's like,
00:33:35.240
get out of the way, get out of the way. I mean, she's screaming at the TV for the fans to move.
00:33:39.880
She's so upset. I think they help. I think they help.
00:33:42.520
So I was going to say the opposite because I try to put myself in a cyclist's shoes
00:33:46.840
and I feel like I would subconsciously be holding back a little bit for fear of hitting them. Not
00:33:53.260
that you're worried about hitting them, but worried about falling. Yeah, you do sometimes
00:33:56.640
let off the throttle a little bit, especially like if you attack or something and you're in the zone,
00:34:03.320
you feel like you're pushing all the watts that you can. But then when you see the fans,
00:34:07.920
I don't know, maybe let off a little bit, but it's still high power, I would say. But also because
00:34:14.320
when the adrenaline is so high and the noise is incredible, the noise is so loud and you're just
00:34:22.960
riding and you don't actually lose any momentum and it's crazy. It's hard to describe.
00:34:29.560
I can't imagine. Actually, it looks like one of the craziest things I've ever seen. This year in
00:34:35.620
the tour, I was very surprised that certain commentators were almost expressing disappointment
00:34:42.540
when you were winning stages after you had already secured the yellow jersey. Did any of that make it
00:34:48.480
to you? And if so, does that mean anything to you that people are saying he shouldn't be winning so
00:34:53.040
much? I actually don't see so many people saying he shouldn't win so much. Okay. The ones that hate
00:34:59.520
me, they will say that, but obviously they hold something against me. It's normal. But even the
00:35:05.980
people that are neutral and this don't say it in that I should hold back. I shouldn't win so much.
00:35:12.240
It's just the media and the commentators and journalists, they like to say these things just
00:35:18.420
so... Have something controversial to say. Yeah. But I really don't see so much controversy in this
00:35:24.260
because also for me, in some stages, a lot of stages, I count the other day, how many stages
00:35:30.720
I win 12 stages in Grand Tours this year? And I think we control to win and that I won was seven
00:35:39.780
stages. So it's just a little bit more than half, no? So it's not so bad. Do you even think about
00:35:47.180
equaling or bettering the mark now of Mercs and Cavendish in tour stage wins?
00:35:52.180
I don't want to think so much ahead just because you never know when it's your last win, no?
00:35:58.220
That's why you take every win. Yeah. If it's there, you take it. If you enjoy, you feel good,
00:36:03.460
you go for the stage, you win, no? Unless it's there some other reason. But yeah, I mean, 36 or how
00:36:11.240
much? Yeah, 34 or 36 or something like that. 35 stages from Cavendish is just crazy and
00:36:16.540
it's an incredible achievement. I don't want to think so much ahead. I want to go from tour to
00:36:23.500
tour and see how I feel and what can I do now. Have you met Eddie Mercs? I assume you have.
00:36:29.440
Yeah, I did. I met him a few times, one time more closely, but that was now already three years ago.
00:36:37.960
Yeah, we met for dinner. It was nice. There's a great book about him called Half Man, Half Bike.
00:36:43.960
It's one of my favorite books about cycling and it's kind of the story of his life and career.
00:36:48.420
It's just amazing. I'm sure you would enjoy it because it gives you an appreciation for how could
00:36:52.900
a guy win all of these races? Like what you're doing, right? You're winning Grand Tours. He's
00:36:58.380
winning the One Day Classics. And then of course, in 1972, to just obliterate the one hour world record,
00:37:05.160
a record that would stand for 12 years. And even 12 years later, when it was broken by Francesca Moser,
00:37:10.460
I mean, it was using completely new aero equipment and stuff, whereas Mercs did it on a
00:37:14.560
simple bike. Yeah. I've read certainly that Mercs has considered you truly the second coming of him.
00:37:21.720
That must mean a lot to you? I don't know. I don't know how to respond to that, but yeah,
00:37:26.760
for sure he was one of the greatest, especially at his time. This was, yeah, it was incredible and
00:37:33.200
how he won the races and I never saw any of his racing, but yeah, just when you read his
00:37:40.780
Palmares, it's just unbelievable. And yeah, it's something that you cannot imagine in this
00:37:47.160
era to achieve. So I don't think it's possible to do the same what he did now, but yeah, it's
00:37:54.060
different cycling now. Do you think that the one hour record is something you would even entertain
00:37:59.520
in terms of like making the effort for it and training for it, setting aside time? I was until
00:38:04.560
yeah, Ghana did it. And then Bingham, I think he did also before people. Before that time,
00:38:14.020
I would consider it now, not so much. I mean, Ghana was fast, really. He did incredible.
00:38:21.780
What is the difference between your power when you are climbing? So your femurs are not kinked down
00:38:28.740
versus when you're in a time trial position. How many watts do you lose being in a time trial
00:38:32.460
position for the same period of time? I don't know. I'm still trying to figure this one out
00:38:37.660
actually. But yeah, I see that I have one time trial. I have some good days and some bad days.
00:38:44.780
I'm not so consistent as on a road bike, but when it matters, I can push more or less the same
00:38:50.620
numbers on the TT bike as the road bike. It's coming all along now with biomechanics,
00:38:56.580
Vintana testings and so many trainings, so many intervals doing that you're trying to figure out
00:39:03.100
the best position to be possible to do this power.
00:39:07.600
You mentioned that you did some more strength work in the off season coming into 24 as part of
00:39:12.220
the reason why you seem even stronger than before, which is hard to imagine. Were you doing any
00:39:17.820
strength training for your legs? Were you doing any weights?
00:39:20.540
Yeah, a little bit weights. I'm still doing the strength training throughout the season,
00:39:26.060
but with less weights. But yeah, still legs, core, glutes, hips. And this is for me,
00:39:36.540
Yeah, not anymore. But did you ever used to, when you were growing up, run or swim or do any other
00:39:42.020
We were younger in our team in Ljubljana. In the winter, we were running up the mountain
00:39:47.640
three, four times per week. After school, we had meeting, training meeting, and we go this
00:39:54.280
mountain that was close by and we go two, three times up, down. That was it. We swam also a few
00:40:01.100
years, one time per week for one hour or something. Yeah, we tried different sports in the winter
00:40:07.140
and cross-country skiing. This is my favorite. Yeah, running on the flat, not so much. But now I try
00:40:13.100
in the last two years, I tried to put running also into off-season.
00:40:18.480
I tried to start in off-season and I tried to keep it as long as possible into season, but
00:40:24.640
So in your off-season, what is the most days you'll go without being on a bike at all? No stationary bike,
00:40:32.220
Well, stationary bike is no go for me anyway, especially in off-season.
00:40:36.400
I don't do it. But yeah, I don't know. We have a team camp in UAE. It's like six days.
00:40:42.860
But yeah, last year, for example, we went with the boys, run together in Abu Dhabi two times
00:40:49.460
and playing paddle, something so. And then going off to vacation. Then on vacation, you get bored,
00:40:56.740
you go for a run or playing paddle or whatever, again, or swimming. And I cannot say that I do
00:41:03.060
two weeks without the bike or without any training at all because I really enjoy doing other stuff and
00:41:09.920
other sports. So yeah, maybe three days doing nothing. Then one day you do something and then
00:41:15.700
maybe three days again, nothing. But then mid-November, always starting on a bike, road bike again.
00:41:23.020
How old were you when you realized you were going to be or when you knew you wanted to be a professional
00:41:28.580
I was a junior. So 16, 17 years, 17 years old, when I thought that I have a chance to be professional,
00:41:36.800
to be in the World Tour team. But yeah, second year juniors, I realized that I can definitely be in
00:41:44.460
World Tour. And then when I come to under 23, I already signed with UAE team pre-contract for
00:41:56.520
Well, Tadi, I have a million more questions I could ask you, but I know you've got a team meeting
00:42:00.240
shortly. I want to make sure you get to that on time. I want to make sure you get a good dinner
00:42:03.740
and have a great race tomorrow. And above all else, I mean, really, we're just, I think everybody's
00:42:07.780
kind of excited to see you at the Worlds in a couple of weeks. And again, not to put pressure on you,
00:42:12.880
but just so people understand the significance of that, to be able to win two Grand Tours in a year
00:42:17.900
is really unprecedented. If there's a chance to add a world title to that, it's kind of
00:42:22.240
unbelievable. And at the other end of that, should it not happen this year, given that you're not yet
00:42:27.040
26, I think most people would take the bet that you're going to have another shot at that.
00:42:30.820
Yeah. But the sooner we get it over, the better it is. There is no more pressure.
00:42:39.480
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