The Peter Attia Drive - Earning the gift of life

00:00:00.000 Hey, everyone. Welcome to the drive podcast. I'm your host, Peter Atiyah. This podcast,

00:00:15.480 my website, and my weekly newsletter all focus on the goal of translating the science of longevity

00:00:19.800 into something accessible for everyone. Our goal is to provide the best content in health

00:00:24.600 and wellness, full stop. And we've assembled a great team of analysts to make this happen.

00:00:28.880 If you enjoy this podcast, we've created a membership program that brings you far more

00:00:33.280 in-depth content. If you want to take your knowledge of the space to the next level at

00:00:37.320 the end of this episode, I'll explain what those benefits are. Or if you want to learn more now,

00:00:41.720 head over to peteratiyahmd.com forward slash subscribe. Now, without further delay,

00:00:47.740 here's today's episode. Welcome to a special episode of the drive. For those of you who

00:00:54.620 subscribed to our newsletter, you probably saw this week, we celebrated our fourth anniversary.

00:00:58.840 So for those of you that don't just want to let you know, we're four years old. Today's podcast,

00:01:03.220 we figured it'd be a great time to ensure folks have had a chance to hear my initial conversation

00:01:07.160 with Rick, which was released back in November, 2019. I met Rick in 2013 and I was kind of a fan boy.

00:01:14.880 I had seen his Ted talk probably a year or so sooner. It immediately became probably my favorite Ted talk

00:01:21.440 that I'd ever seen. And a mutual friend who knew how much of a fan I was introduced us. And to this

00:01:26.400 day, it really remains one of the most amazing talks that in such short order puts everything

00:01:32.060 into perspective. Rick is a dear friend. We've become closer over the years and he's a wonderful

00:01:36.860 mentor to me. In our discussion, we talk about the day that would change Rick's life forever.

00:01:41.620 When on January 15th, 2009, Rick was on US Airways flight 1547, which made an emergency landing into the

00:01:48.560 Hudson River. I'm sure many of you remember this. Rick dives really deep into how that day impacted

00:01:53.140 his life and changed his perspective on everything, including his relationships with his family and

00:01:57.700 the broader community. The episode is really an opportunity to allow Rick to share so much of his

00:02:02.320 wisdom. And it's really one of those episodes that I think everyone needs to hear at least once

00:02:07.640 and probably twice. So I'm going to be going back to listen to it again this week. And I hope you

00:02:12.900 enjoy or potentially re-enjoy my conversation with my close friend, Rick Elias.

00:02:18.560 Rick, thank you so much for making time. I know you're super busy this week, but when your office

00:02:28.280 was able to coordinate us getting together, I was delighted. It is so much fun to be with you today,

00:02:32.880 Peter. I'm a huge fan of your podcast and we're dear friends. So when you asked me to be on it,

00:02:37.200 I was honored. A lot of people have heard me talk about you. I wrote a blog post, I don't know,

00:02:42.920 probably five years ago about how your TED talk was at the time and actually still remains my favorite

00:02:48.280 TED talk of all time. It's a very short talk and I'm sure for folks who haven't heard it yet,

00:02:53.700 we'll make sure we link to it. But I can't resist starting with that story. So let's just put the

00:02:59.680 profundity niceties aside and just go straight to it. Thursday, January 15th, 2009, you're in New York

00:03:06.540 City. Why were you here? I was here because one of our partners, DirecTV at the time, was here and I

00:03:12.480 was having lunch with the CMO. The night before I had dinner with a good friend of mine and was

00:03:17.920 having a couple of small meetings in the morning and then I was flying home to coach my son's

00:03:21.880 basketball team when I landed in Charlotte. The flight was going from LaGuardia to Charlotte.

00:03:25.860 How many times did you take that shuttle, that flight? That's probably a common flight.

00:03:29.840 A hundred times.

00:03:31.060 Yeah. Do you remember having breakfast that morning?

00:03:32.680 I went to play hoops in the Reebok Club on the Upper East Side and it was a cold morning and it was

00:03:41.280 snowing, big flakes and I chose to walk because it was so beautiful.

00:03:46.380 How would you describe your life at that point in time? How big was Red Ventures, your company?

00:03:50.740 We had about 700 employees. We've gone in this really nice growth spurt after really struggling

00:03:57.720 the first four years. We started in 2000. So we were doing really well, but we were at risk of

00:04:04.420 two bad things happening and not having a business. So there was this kind of constant juxtaposition of

00:04:10.380 this is not going to last. I actually told our employees, enjoy the good old days. They won't

00:04:15.380 last forever. And they were annoyed by me saying that, but it was the reminder that this was very fleeting.

00:04:20.760 Would you have described yourself as a happy person? Like how would people describe Rick back then?

00:04:25.560 Yeah. Generally, I'm a very positive person. I like to think that I've lived through a lot of great

00:04:30.020 things in my life. Some that have actually happened. So that's like how I see world. And

00:04:34.820 since I was a kid, that said, I was super stressed. I was trying to build a business so that we could

00:04:41.860 tell it and I could go do other things in life. Your kids at the time were how old?

00:04:46.720 My daughter was in first grade. My son was in second grade.

00:04:50.560 And so how were you thinking about balancing the incredible stress of running a 700 person company,

00:04:57.280 the travel that comes with that, and then being the dad, being the coach, being the husband?

00:05:01.600 Was that balance, did it feel in balance to you?

00:05:04.340 Looking back, it was completely out of balance. And it was, I kind of rationalized myself around

00:05:09.000 quality over quantity. And I would literally talk myself into, well, at least I'm coaching my son.

00:05:16.500 Or I was like, many of us are during those stages, just really taxed mentally. And my wife really

00:05:23.680 carried the burden of raising our kids. And I look back on it and it was 95.5 when it should have been

00:05:30.480 a different number.

00:05:31.900 Jeez. Yeah. 95.5. I can relate. You were staying at a hotel that morning when you got up?

00:05:37.340 I don't remember the hotel. It was in the Upper East because of basketball in the morning,

00:05:41.220 which it was priority.

00:05:42.740 Life of all you're on basketball.

00:05:43.980 5.30 a.m. run, which is great.

00:05:45.880 This is pre-Uber, I'm guessing, yeah, 2009. So you probably took a taxi to LaGuardia.

00:05:51.160 Yes.

00:05:51.420 Do you remember anything about your transit from getting through security, getting on that plane,

00:05:56.460 anything about it? It was hard given that it's such a routine for you.

00:05:59.740 Yes, I do remember. Because of that impact, everything around it becomes kind of much more

00:06:04.980 real, but it's a wacky story. I remember I was a little early, which I never was,

00:06:10.540 and I went and got a soft serve ice cream at McDonald's. And I worked out really hard that

00:06:16.640 morning. And that was the only place where I did this. And, you know, I think that it'll change that

00:06:21.180 whole eating area, but I'm making love to this ice cream. It just tastes so freaking good.

00:06:26.440 I'm literally just enjoying my vanilla ice cream while I wait for whatever an hour for my flight.

00:06:31.600 And I started walking to the gate and it was so good that I turned around and went and had another

00:06:35.540 one, which I'd never done.

00:06:39.820 I can relate to that as well, by the way. Although soft serve ice cream isn't a particular weakness

00:06:44.300 of mine, but there are other airport weaknesses I have. Trail mix is my airport weakness.

00:06:50.080 That's why you look the way you do and the way I look.

00:06:52.040 I don't know. I would say the ice cream is probably no worse for you than the trail mix,

00:06:55.520 by the way. So they call you guys to board on the plane. You're sitting at the front of the plane.

00:07:01.000 Yeah. It was a really kind of crappy day. It was gray, it was cold, it was wet, kind of gone out of

00:07:08.380 snow and rain. So it was not the most pleasant day in New York. So I boarded, I was in first class,

00:07:14.740 so we boarded first. And I remember sitting in my seat and kind of processing, okay, here's all the

00:07:20.140 stuff I got to do on the plane. As soon as I land, I got to do this. And then when I come back,

00:07:23.640 my brain is super busy. Just thinking about the non-never-ending list of things to accomplish.

00:07:29.700 Are you listening to music or anything? Do you know?

00:07:32.320 I'm not. I'm just sitting there kind of vegging a little bit, just thinking about life.

00:07:37.400 So 2009, we would have been sort of third generation iPhone and BlackBerry were probably

00:07:41.620 the dominant things. Which one were you using?

00:07:43.940 I had just switched, literally like two days before.

00:07:47.440 So you're on like an early iPhone.

00:07:49.180 An early iPhone. And then the first row, so you can't have a bag under your legs,

00:07:53.020 they have to go up. And so I'm sitting there and it was a little bit of a slow departing,

00:07:58.400 I think because of the weather, things kind of back out.

00:08:01.160 What time was it? This afternoon?

00:08:02.560 It was like a 2.30 or something like that. And I remember kind of dozing, you know,

00:08:07.240 the plane puts you to sleep. And so I was kind of going in and out of that as the plane took off.

00:08:11.880 And I was very cognizant when we kind of took off. I was kind of in and out of consciousness

00:08:16.960 right when we took off.

00:08:18.940 How long after the takeoff do you know something is not right?

00:08:23.020 Yeah. So about three minutes, I think we're about 4,500 feet up or something like that,

00:08:29.360 there's a massive explosion. Bam! Like a pipe bomb. And this was 10 years after September 11th,

00:08:36.780 but it's still September 11th. And for all of us who lived through that,

00:08:40.560 and I had the really lucky seat because I can see the flight attendant kind of kitty corner.

00:08:45.000 I looked at her. We were still flying. We were horizontal. And I looked at her and she was calm.

00:08:52.700 Her eyes were calm. And I was like, okay, we probably lost an engine. And for the next couple

00:08:59.140 minutes, Peter, all you could hear was the engine struggling. Clack, clack, clack, clack. Like

00:09:05.280 they were starting to restart it. When you go look at the transcript, that's where they were doing.

00:09:09.100 There was a really nasty smell going into the cabin. So it smelled like a really bad-

00:09:13.340 Something burnt?

00:09:14.220 Yeah, burnt. Like burned and kind of not. He had turned the plane pretty quickly.

00:09:19.420 We were heading back into New York. And in my mind, I'm like, okay, I'm not coaching today.

00:09:24.420 The flight attendant's eyes told me all I had to hear, which is, it's going to be a long travel day.

00:09:28.960 So when you're leaving LaGuardia, you're up and circling around. So you're sort of over Queens.

00:09:34.500 Yes.

00:09:34.820 And you shouldn't be coming back over Manhattan, correct?

00:09:37.480 Right, correct.

00:09:38.460 So what do you see out the window?

00:09:40.140 I am in the aisle, so I'm not really seeing out the window necessarily. I'm just literally for

00:09:46.200 this two minutes, just going like, wow, this is really bizarre. I got to figure out who's

00:09:51.020 coach's practice for my son. And that's all I was thinking about.

00:09:55.540 Was the next sign that something was wrong, the reduction in sound in the cabin?

00:10:01.020 So about 90 seconds before we hit down. So two minutes pass of this.

00:10:05.500 Of the engine trying to restart.

00:10:07.420 Right. And then Captain Sullenberger gets on the voice system for the first time.

00:10:12.920 And he only says three words. He says, brace for impact.

00:10:18.580 At the same time, they turn off the struggling engines and he lines up the plane with the Hudson

00:10:24.720 River. You and I have been here long enough, long enough that there's no runway right at the end

00:10:30.040 of the Hudson River. So I knew in that moment, a hundred percent with certainty that we were going

00:10:37.080 to die. I looked at the flight attendant's eyes and it was no longer annoyance. It was complete

00:10:42.220 terror. I didn't know this, but in airline speak, that means we're not landing at an airport.

00:10:47.380 And all of this happened in 90 seconds from when you-

00:10:50.760 Two minutes. So there's the two minutes from hitting to when he does that. And then there's 90

00:10:54.720 seconds as he's gliding the plane down that you literally-

00:10:58.900 Because you're now at the very top of Manhattan when this is happening, right?

00:11:01.720 Correct. All the way up.

00:11:02.480 Yeah.

00:11:02.820 And you have 90 seconds to basically say goodbye to your life. What is really unique about that

00:11:07.920 experience is you are a hundred percent certain you're going to die. If anything, I was saying

00:11:14.180 to myself, please blow up. I don't want this to break in 50 pieces and drown in this cold water.

00:11:20.540 So you're kind of playing all these things out and you are just realizing that there's

00:11:27.120 no suffering. So you're not burning or drowning or something that wouldn't make it different,

00:11:30.900 but you have 90 seconds to say goodbye.

00:11:32.540 But you still don't know what that end is like, do you? I mean, it's not to get too morbid,

00:11:37.180 but if I were in that situation, I wouldn't actually understand what the end is.

00:11:42.360 I've just seen enough documentaries to know that planes don't land on water.

00:11:46.500 Yeah. They break into a million pieces and they spiral out.

00:11:49.700 I didn't know how, but I know what was going to happen.

00:11:52.080 And at this point it's silent in the cockpit or are people screaming?

00:11:55.840 It was more silent than screaming. I'm first row, so I can't hear a ton. And you go into,

00:12:01.580 imagine the amount of adrenaline that is going through your system as you are literally trapped

00:12:06.800 to your death for 90 seconds.

00:12:08.840 Did you think I have time to make one phone call?

00:12:11.460 I didn't have my phone.

00:12:12.500 Your phone is up top.

00:12:13.400 Yeah. It was very cleansing. I look back and I was raised Catholic. So

00:12:18.400 first thing that crosses my mind is like, okay, I'm not a practicing Catholic, but

00:12:22.700 you can repent and all sorts of good things could happen. Right. And I asked myself that question,

00:12:28.220 am I going to do something that I, I've chosen not to believe in this part of my life?

00:12:32.940 And I didn't. And I said, I'm not a hypocrite. It may be.

00:12:37.200 Meaning I'm going to live with the choices I've made.

00:12:39.300 Yes. Which was interesting for me to, after my relationship with religion and so forth,

00:12:45.100 but it was very powerful 90 seconds because the most important thing I realized was, wow,

00:12:51.120 this all changed in an instant. I thought I had years and now it's all over.

00:12:57.080 How old were you on that day?

00:12:58.300 I was 42. How old are you?

00:13:01.260 46.

00:13:02.120 Yeah. I thought we tend to believe we're going to live forever and it would all change in

00:13:07.040 an instant. And there was, I really had a ton of regret about the things that I did not get to

00:13:14.140 things, experiences, people I needed to ask for forgiveness from people. I wanted to say again,

00:13:20.460 I love you. People wanted to hug one more time. And you're like, wow, it all changed. And

00:13:25.760 then there's no going back and there's no turning that back. And that was one emotion.

00:13:30.580 The other emotion and also around regret was really how much I had allowed my ego to become

00:13:38.760 very active in my life and how I spent so much time being wronged by people or just spending so

00:13:47.620 much time trying to be right versus choosing to be happy. I realized, wow, I've lived my life in a

00:13:53.320 very wasteful way because so much of my energy has been spent on things that did not matter with

00:14:00.260 people that did. Think about all the fights you've had with pick your wife. You don't even remember

00:14:05.440 90, you know, 30 days later what you fought about yet. You were so passionate about it. It just doesn't

00:14:09.240 freaking matter. Yeah.

00:14:11.420 You know, and then the last kind of regret, because that's what it felt like was this notion that I had

00:14:16.600 not focused on the thing that matters most in my life. I inherently knew that my most important

00:14:23.280 responsibility was to make sure my kids were the best versions of themselves. And I had completely

00:14:29.080 delegated that to my wife in a very unfair way. And I had prioritized not just work, but just

00:14:36.300 everything else. And so those were regrets. And I literally thought about all of that. But you know

00:14:42.780 what was really interesting, Peter? Dying to me was not scary. I've always thought it would be a scary

00:14:49.580 moment. It was super sad because I didn't want to go. I really liked my life. I really wasn't done. I

00:14:55.740 had lots of regrets, but it was not scary. And that in itself also has been clarifying for me.

00:15:03.260 Had you spoken or have you since spoken about this with the other people on the flight? And do you know

00:15:08.200 if any of them felt that? I have not. I have not. I had so much support when I landed on love and all

00:15:14.020 that, that I kind of stayed within my realm of comfort. And then immediately after there were all

00:15:19.300 sorts of things, books and lawsuits and this, and it all felt so disingenuous to me. The US Airways

00:15:25.960 sent us a check for $10,000 and I refused to. I've seen your check. You've seen it. It's sitting in

00:15:31.620 Jay Walker's library. Yes. Yeah. You're probably the only person that didn't cash that check.

00:15:36.120 You know what? It's just bad karma. I didn't want to cash that check. And it's not the right thing.

00:15:43.640 No matter how big it would have been a million bucks, I would have not cashed it. I was given

00:15:46.860 the ultimate gift. And the ultimate gift was to say goodbye to your life, to close your eyes,

00:15:53.140 to touch your own arm, say, I love you, to wish for it to blow up and to open your eyes and realize

00:16:01.160 that you had a second chance. As the plane is coming down, do you see the George Washington

00:16:07.000 Bridge? Can you see it? Oh, yeah. I saw it more as we were going over it and you can see the cars

00:16:12.460 at a scarily close place. Like literally we... You see cars in a level, you never see them in an

00:16:17.320 airplane. Like I wonder... You see the level of detail. The detail. And we almost took on that bridge.

00:16:21.620 I don't know if you've seen the movie, but if he chooses to go to Teterboro, we take out a bunch

00:16:28.820 of buildings. He literally made all these calculations that he didn't have enough thrust

00:16:34.260 to get there. And he said, the only chance I have is to go in the water. And you will relate to this

00:16:41.120 story because I know the struggle or your internal fight against authority when it's not well placed.

00:16:48.020 And we've talked a lot about this. So when he communicates to the tower and said, I'm going in

00:16:53.920 the water and the tower goes like, please repeat because they can understand it. And basically he

00:16:59.400 was done with protocol. He's like, I'm going to do my best to try to land this thing. There's all

00:17:03.720 sorts of mathematical equations here. We landed, I think at 151 miles an hour or something like that.

00:17:08.800 If we are 1.53, we blow up at 149. We tip. The wind blows like 12 and a half miles an hour at 14.

00:17:16.760 Like there were so many things that had to be within such a small degree, all compounding into

00:17:23.380 a moment that you can land a cylinder with 158 people full of gas. That's like hitting cement.

00:17:29.900 Yeah. I just know that from sort of the literature on people who jump off bridges and into water. And

00:17:35.900 when you jump off the Golden Gate Bridge, which is something like 220 feet up, much lower than where

00:17:41.480 you guys are coming from. It is like hitting cement. And the only people who survive that jump are

00:17:45.980 generally people who land exactly feet first. They end up breaking most bones. They break every bone

00:17:52.320 in their feet, ankles, compress the spine, but at least they don't pivot, land sideways, have a rib

00:17:59.120 tear through their liver or something awful like that. So yeah, it's like a cement, a wet cement landing.

00:18:05.660 I don't know if I've ever told you this story, but about five years ago, I met a guy through a friend.

00:18:10.940 We were in Houston and the three of us were having dinner and somehow it came up that this guy

00:18:16.660 was in a helicopter crash. He was the only one that survived. It was a pilot, three, maybe three or four

00:18:22.700 other people in the helicopter and him. And there was a technical malfunction in the helicopter. I

00:18:26.480 don't remember exactly what it was, but it was one of those things where it was clear they were

00:18:30.400 crashing and it was clear they were all going to die. I mean, helicopters just look like the most

00:18:33.960 unstable things when they're out of control. And interestingly, it was about the same length of time.

00:18:38.700 He had about two minutes of crashing and he hadn't heard of you. So he hadn't seen your Ted talk

00:18:45.360 after the fact he did. Of course, I directed him to it. And what blew my mind, Rick, was the similarity

00:18:51.140 in the way he described that two minutes. He said, he said, Peter, you'll think this is crazy,

00:18:56.860 but I just wasn't afraid to die. But boy, was I sad. He was about your age. He was probably 40 when

00:19:02.900 this happened. He was hurt in the crash. I mean, he broke both his legs. I mean, he was again,

00:19:07.020 the only survivor, but walked away with his life. I'll never forget that, how he explained

00:19:11.180 something about not being afraid, but just being so sad. Yeah. It makes me wonder how many other

00:19:17.480 people on that plane would echo that same thought. Obviously, I can't relate. So I don't know what

00:19:22.380 that means. I feel like I'd be afraid, but I'm looking at a man who's been through it and tells

00:19:26.580 me that that's not what he felt. I just bought a lucky ticket. So when did you close your eyes?

00:19:31.980 How far do you think you were above the water? You know, when you fly a lot, you can almost sense

00:19:36.740 when you're going to hit. Even if you're dozing off, you feel the ground coming, right? So when

00:19:41.020 about 10 seconds left, I can feel the countdown in my system and 10, nine. And that's when I grabbed

00:19:48.440 my arm and I said, I love you. Why did you do that? I think I had a sense of needing comfort

00:19:54.940 as you exit life. I probably, there was probably a lot of acceptance in that statement subconsciously.

00:20:03.740 Prior to that, were you someone who struggled with loving yourself? Were you hard on yourself?

00:20:09.880 No, no, no, no, no. I have many issues. That's not one of them.

00:20:14.180 That's interesting. I'm very hard on myself. I wonder if I would even have the foresight to think

00:20:19.200 that. It's a beautiful sentiment. What was the sound like?

00:20:22.740 It was, he puts the tail and then kind of the nose just jams. So it was a violent accident.

00:20:30.520 And then we skid to the left. I have my eyes closed. I open my eyes and I am completely disoriented

00:20:38.340 because I'm expecting to being upside down. Like if I left my eyes open, I think I would

00:20:44.380 have been much more oriented. And it took me a split second to realize that this looked like

00:20:49.600 a cruise ship. We had this plane sitting on the water kind of all around us.

00:20:55.100 When your eyes open, the plane is still moving?

00:20:57.400 I don't remember. I don't, I don't think so. I think I come to a stop or close to coming to a stop.

00:21:03.140 Was there any part of you that thought this is death? I'm dead. This is an afterlife. This is

00:21:07.940 sort of a few circuits firing in what remains of my central nervous system, but I'm actually dead.

00:21:13.640 Like, I mean, I, again, what, what is it? Then to me, you would think that that would be a very

00:21:18.280 realistic. It just was so quick, right? That it was confusing. It was unusual. You know, when you

00:21:24.400 have zero probability of something and it happens, you're like, did that really happen? And immediately

00:21:29.080 we went into kind of, holy cow, we got to get out of here. Do you have a moment of realizing

00:21:35.220 what has happened or do you immediately shift into business mode of, okay, now it's an emergency

00:21:42.820 excavation. Now it's like all that stuff that nobody pays attention to when the plane is taking

00:21:47.660 off the slide. How does the slide work? Who takes the door off? How many doors are there? Where is the

00:21:53.300 nearest door? All that stuff. You guys go right into that mode. And is it orderly? Is it chaotic? Are

00:21:59.200 people screaming, clapping, crying? What's happening?

00:22:01.720 That plane was not equipped for water. That's why people were standing on the wings, not on rafts.

00:22:08.300 I don't understand. What do you mean it wasn't equipped for water?

00:22:09.820 So if you look, first class, there's rafts. But in the coach section, there were no rafts because

00:22:15.560 that plane was not supposed to go over water. So that's why nothing deployed when you open those

00:22:20.260 emergency doors. Only you can stand on the wings.

00:22:23.980 I thought every plane had that.

00:22:26.160 No, no. If the plane had landed on the east side, there's not the ferries and the hustle and bustle

00:22:31.700 of where we landed. That thing was taking water. They evacuated the people from the wing because

00:22:36.020 we were sinking. So there were so many things. There were a bunch of ferries around us as soon

00:22:40.580 as we landed. So it never felt like we were not going to be safe in that regard. But on the east

00:22:45.840 side, I think it would have been different.

00:22:47.620 How cold was the water? Do you remember the feeling?

00:22:49.700 It was very cold. But adrenaline takes over. So it's only cold after it wasn't cold in the moment.

00:22:54.680 And I'll tell you a story that I have really not shared with many people. I think because I was

00:23:01.720 tired from hooping and staying out late and working and all this stuff and eating so much

00:23:06.460 sugar before getting on the plane. I'm kind of comatose sitting there on my seat as people are

00:23:10.240 boarding late in the boarding process. An elderly lady in a wheelchair in her is coming down the ramp.

00:23:17.020 And my voice inside of me, and I've done this before, says, get up, give up your seat.

00:23:23.200 Go sit and coach. I'm 6'5", but it's the right thing to do. And then I'm like, I'm tired. It's not

00:23:30.680 a long flight. I'm being completely selfish. And then her daughter's behind the person that is

00:23:36.660 helping the lady. I'm out. There's two of them. We can't do it. And I'm pretty sure this guy won't

00:23:39.860 give the seat. So I rationalize myself to being completely selfish. So once we are in the raft,

00:23:47.020 and I know that this elderly lady is in the back of the plane, I start freaking out because I know

00:23:52.020 she can't walk. So I start screaming, where's the lady? Where's the lady? We're in the raft. And by

00:23:57.440 the way, it was really interesting in the raft, in our side, some people were completely frozen.

00:24:02.740 They couldn't understand anything. Some people were panicking in the raft. And then there was a

00:24:07.160 handful of us who were like, okay, let's problem solve. And eventually the older lady comes to the

00:24:12.260 front of the plane. They bring her in because they got to put her in a raft. And I grab her.

00:24:16.320 And I'm sitting there and she's completely traumatized by this. And I'm just thinking

00:24:23.140 about, oh my goodness, my last act would have been one of my most selfish acts. That was an

00:24:28.020 interesting emotion. And then when we got to the ferry, we had to climb about 10 steps.

00:24:33.760 Everybody evacuated. I'm the bigger guy. I'm saying, I'll bring this lady up. The guys were

00:24:37.780 trying to hold her. Peter, I think something crazy happened as I'm going up this frozen ladder

00:24:45.640 with no gloves, no anything, no jacket. And I'm holding her basically in my chest. My hand slips.

00:24:51.980 I was within a split second of dropping an 80-year-old in the water. And I grabbed.

00:24:59.740 And it was a very, all of this is happening in this moment. As soon as I got to the top of the boat

00:25:05.440 and she was safe, we were all safe, I started crying. Like the river of emotion was insane.

00:25:14.620 What about others? Did they experience that? I mean, I'm guessing that different people are

00:25:20.000 processing this at totally different speeds. There are probably still people who don't actually

00:25:25.160 understand what has happened. It sounds like you've moved. You're in post-processing on some

00:25:31.380 level. Are you talking amongst each other? No. Everybody, as soon as one of the people in the

00:25:37.900 ferry, I grabbed the phone. I really wanted to call my wife. By then, she was at the pediatrician

00:25:44.520 with the kids. And her sister called her and goes, where's Rick? And she's like, he's coming from New York.

00:25:49.560 She goes, turn the TV on. And Brenda turned the TV. And she thought that we all had died. So she's

00:25:54.700 crying at the pediatricians. The kids are screaming. And I call from a random number. And as she tells

00:26:00.260 the story, she thinks it's the police saying, hey, your husband died. Right. Random New York number.

00:26:05.660 It's like, and I call and I say, honey, I'm okay. And like, she screams, he's alive. He's alive. And

00:26:14.340 the kids are completely confused. They just lost their dad, but he's alive.

00:26:18.800 So everybody, we were passing on this phone and all of that. Where was the crew at this time?

00:26:24.620 So most people ended up on the New York side. Some people ended up in the New Jersey side. I ended up

00:26:29.260 in the New York side. And I think it was Pier 42. And my guess is the crew is the last to get off the

00:26:34.860 plane. They have to make sure everybody's off. And I'm guessing Sully is the last of the last.

00:26:39.780 A hundred percent. And he ends up, I'll tell you a quick story on Sully. So we end up in,

00:26:44.520 and by the way, New York is an amazing city in so many ways.

00:26:49.120 Yeah. If something's going to go wrong, this is the city to have it happen. You got the best

00:26:52.240 rescue. You've got. Unbelievable. The first responders, by the time we got to the pier,

00:26:56.200 they were like. There's hot chocolate waiting for you.

00:26:57.780 The Red Cross. And you know, there were priests and rabbis and everybody. And they're kind. And

00:27:03.040 like, it was amazing. Like we're sitting there and they're interviewing everybody because they

00:27:06.520 don't know if I'll play or whatever. Right. And before they release anybody, they need to

00:27:10.080 and everybody. Three hours later, they release, they start putting us in buses to take us to a

00:27:15.060 hotel. And Captain Sollenberger standing there, what it looked like fully dressed, stoic, probably

00:27:23.200 contemplating what in the world just happened. And I went up to him. There was nobody around him.

00:27:27.780 And I went up to him and I said, Captain, I didn't know his name. I said, thank you for saving our

00:27:31.740 lives. And Peter, he said something to me that day that I say to myself all the time when someone

00:27:38.000 thanks me for something. I don't say it out loud much. You know what he said to me?

00:27:44.800 He said, I was just doing my job. Can you imagine if we all just kind of did our jobs

00:27:50.940 at every level? That really shocked me that that was his process. So they put us on a bus

00:27:58.880 and the media is there and all of that. And we get to the hotel and there's food and they

00:28:04.780 were amazing. And they're like, okay, you want a hotel? The train is tomorrow. Many people lived

00:28:11.600 here and I looked at the lady and I said, I need to get on the next flight or what time is the next

00:28:15.720 flight? And she looked at me like I got hit in the head, right? It's like, she's calling the

00:28:20.560 concussion protocol. Like this guy has completely lost it. And the way I said it to myself was like,

00:28:27.160 listen, the probability of this happening twice is like, if this plane goes down and I die,

00:28:32.680 it's me, God is coming to see, right? Let's go get this over with. If it dies and I don't die,

00:28:37.760 Oprah Winfrey and I are going to share a stage somewhere. And if I get on this plane, I'll never

00:28:41.660 be afraid of flying again. Did you fly out that night? I flew out that night. What did you feel

00:28:47.080 like when that plane was taking off? How did it feel different? I remember the next time I took a

00:28:53.920 flight, which was maybe a couple of weeks later. And I had a seat. Again, I got upgraded first class

00:29:00.280 and I gave it up and I wanted to sit in the first seat of coaching. I wanted to see me

00:29:04.700 on that plane. And I sat on the left-hand side of the plane and I just watched and I needed to

00:29:10.600 relive all of that, you know, that flight, I just wanted to come home. My mom and dad picked me up

00:29:16.640 because my wife was at home with the kids. They're young and our home got 60 people within an hour and

00:29:22.660 they all came and like everything, but nothing had really happened. We were fine, but it's just

00:29:26.480 beautiful love and beautiful expression of support and community. And so my parents picked me up and

00:29:32.640 there's media and everybody there and I like squirt around and I don't want any, like people are talking

00:29:38.160 to the cameras and whatever. And you can see when you look at the footage, I'm like pretending I'm a

00:29:42.220 normal passenger on the plane. And my mom, it's all of five, three at the time she was 70. So she's

00:29:50.420 about to turn 80. And I remember giving a hug to my dad and giving a hug to my mom and feeling

00:29:57.060 like this was the safest place in the world. A little lady hugging a six, five foot guy was the

00:30:04.240 safest place. And I remember feeling like a kid again. I had asthma as a kid and that was the only

00:30:08.780 place that I could breathe. And it was so beautiful to embrace my mom in a way that again, it started this

00:30:15.780 journey of, I am not taking anything for granted. And that hug, it was like the switch. And there's

00:30:25.240 not a day that goes by that I will not do something and remind myself, I'm not taking this for granted.

00:30:33.160 And I'd love that hug with my mom. My mom has fairly advanced Alzheimer's now, as you know. And so

00:30:38.780 those hugs are not there anymore the same way, but I'm so glad I was able to be a kid again as it

00:30:45.400 relates to hugging her. We were together a few months ago and you mentioned to me that you had

00:30:50.720 never seen Captain Sullenberger since that day you saw him on the docks. And then you saw him for the

00:30:56.720 first time. You had just seen him for the first time. Tell me about that. So one of our companies

00:31:02.800 is the Points Guy. And the Points Guy has a big award show here at the Intrepid. And he was going to be

00:31:09.980 the guest of honor. And Brian, who is the Points Guy and a good partner and a good friend, he's like,

00:31:14.820 hey, would you like to introduce him? And I said, I will be honored.

00:31:18.740 Why had you not sought him out earlier?

00:31:21.920 I wasn't ready. I have a big idea that I have, I've been working on. And I'm going to do something

00:31:28.380 my way. I just, I had said thank you to him that day. And I know he had been overburdened. And I

00:31:33.480 said, the world will bring our energies again. And so we're in the red carpet, this big event,

00:31:39.080 hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people, all sorts of things. And he knows that I'm

00:31:43.740 introducing him. And he knows that I was a passenger. And I'm like, I am so curious as to

00:31:48.620 how I'm going to react. I see him. I shake his hand. We embrace, we lock out.

00:31:55.300 Before you're introducing him.

00:31:56.360 Before. And Peter, not a word came out of my mouth. There was nothing coming out of my mouth. And it

00:32:02.060 was amazing. And it didn't have to come out of my mouth. He could see my eyes, what I wanted to say

00:32:08.000 in a way that was so deep. And he understood, and I saw in his eyes, a connection that two human

00:32:14.020 beings can't manufacture. It was really an amazing moment to see the person that saved your life.

00:32:20.020 And then to have the honor of introducing him a couple hours later and give him an award.

00:32:25.240 How did you even think about and prepare for making introductory remarks in that setting?

00:32:31.560 Did you wing it? Did you plan it?

00:32:33.820 I planned it, but I didn't write it. Just like the TED Talk. I'm not a great memorizer,

00:32:39.060 but I need to have a framework and I need to let my heart go. I told a few stories when I introduced

00:32:44.500 him up that day of a very kind guy that basically gave everything he had that day to all of us.

00:32:50.020 And he was going under, and I talked about the first responders, and I told the story of him

00:32:54.500 doing his job as the core of this. But what was unique to him is literally he had prepared for

00:33:02.260 that moment his whole life. And I went through his background as an instructor and maybe as a glide

00:33:10.240 instructor. All the things that he had done was because he will tell other pilots, you're only a

00:33:16.220 pilot when you lose an engine. And he literally had prepared his whole life to be a pilot, not for

00:33:22.160 the tens of hours he flown, but for the moment that he lost an engine that he didn't think it would be

00:33:27.860 two. So I admire him doing his job.

00:33:32.420 Do you get the sense from all you now know about the details of that? What percentage of pilots that

00:33:39.840 fly commercial airlines could have done that under the same setting? I mean, we can never know the

00:33:46.020 answer to that. And I'm guessing the answer isn't a lot, but I know very little about this, of course,

00:33:50.900 but, um, watching the movie, reading the book, that sort of thing. But it seemed like improbable that a lot

00:33:58.920 of people could have acted the way he did because of the length of time they had to process. So it

00:34:04.600 was, to me, it was, maybe I'm incorrect by the way, because I'm not a pilot. Maybe I don't even

00:34:07.980 understand all the nuance, but to me, the single most important thing was how quickly he could

00:34:14.500 process information and make a decision about what to do. And even a pilot with more technical skill,

00:34:21.420 and I'm not, I don't know how much more technical skill one could have or need, but if you took an

00:34:25.600 extra 15 seconds to come to the same decision, it wouldn't have mattered. To your point earlier,

00:34:31.560 if he had tried to go to Teterboro, no way you're plowing over land, if not hitting the bridge on the

00:34:38.600 way to New Jersey. If he tried to turn to LaGuardia, he's probably plowing through Manhattan at that point.

00:34:45.660 So I don't know. I mean, I just, I think the answer's close to zero, if not zero, because there

00:34:51.720 are a bunch of factors. I think he, because he was a gliding instructor, I don't know how many of them

00:34:57.100 are out there, but it was what allowed him to place that plane in the water in a way because he had

00:35:05.080 taught flying for so long and he had prepared pilots for this. But more importantly, there were

00:35:11.000 all those factors that all had to fit within a very narrow margin. So even him in other moments where

00:35:17.380 other factors go. And then there's a lot of luck. One of those wings tips the water and we go through

00:35:23.480 it. So the odds of that kind of situation happening, it's close to zero. Do you remember the scene in

00:35:30.260 Saving Private Ryan at the end of the movie when the character played by Tom Hanks is dying and

00:35:37.120 Private Ryan, who's been saved, basically is sort of coming to grips with the realization that in an

00:35:43.340 effort to save his life, an entire group of men have died. And the character played by Tom Hanks

00:35:49.080 basically says to him just two words, earn this. Did you feel some sense of, look, I've always lived

00:35:59.020 my life. I didn't know you before this, but I'm imagining you were not that different a person.

00:36:03.360 I don't think like you overnight became the great guy you are today. But did you feel a bigger sense

00:36:09.380 of obligation to your community, both your immediate community, meaning your family, but your larger

00:36:14.720 community, which is your company, and then the even broader community than that, which is the world

00:36:19.220 around you? I mean, has that changed in any way? A hundred percent. A couple of days later in my own

00:36:24.200 quietness, I was trying to make sense of all of this now. And I made a commitment to myself. I made a

00:36:31.980 promise to myself that when I die in six months, six years, or 60 years, if you help me live long,

00:36:40.760 hopefully longer, I am going to ask myself one question. And this is how I would judge my life.

00:36:48.180 And that question is, did I earn my gift? And I was given the ultimate gift because we in our evolution

00:36:57.980 can't process death. Otherwise, we would have never left the cave. I left the cave. I was given

00:37:05.780 the gift. And that gift is a responsibility, not a gift. Who do you think was the first person around

00:37:13.880 you to see that difference? I mean, I have to guess your wife must have, just because of her proximity

00:37:19.320 to you and how close the two of you are, what do you think she noticed first, once the dust settled,

00:37:25.760 meaning the months that followed? And think about the clarity of not postponing anything,

00:37:32.220 not dealing with negative energy and focusing on what matters. So my three thoughts at the plane was

00:37:40.880 landing of no regrets. I try to live a life of no regrets and by no means is perfect. But if I

00:37:47.980 was to, I don't know, index the amount of negative moments I've had with my wife, I bet you they're

00:37:53.640 under 10% of what they used to be. I ask for forgiveness, not because I may have done something

00:37:59.720 wrong, but because someone was offended by what I did. I choose to be happy, not righteous.

00:38:05.420 I want to sort of focus on that a little bit because even just, if nobody listening to this

00:38:09.540 can relate to that, I still want the benefit, but I suspect I'm not alone. When I was a kid,

00:38:15.240 actually in high school, and I was a struggling high school student and I showed,

00:38:19.020 I wouldn't say I showed no potential, but it was certainly not clear what I was supposed to be

00:38:23.720 when I grew up. All I wanted to be was a professional boxer, but they made me take this

00:38:27.980 aptitude test. And it was not about sort of academic aptitude, but more of emotional, like

00:38:33.380 where would you fit? And I remember the result of the test was the strongest signal they had ever

00:38:41.820 seen for someone who values justice and things to be in correct order. And they were like, well,

00:38:49.740 you've probably got a career in law enforcement ahead of you, son. You know, you really ought to

00:38:55.020 consider joining the police force, or maybe you end up going to law school and you'll become a judge,

00:38:59.600 but you really have this strong arc of justice. You just want justice. And I think that that's sort

00:39:06.680 of a detriment sometimes. I think it's because you do, you get into these arguments with your spouse

00:39:10.960 and even if you're going to be objective, in some situations they're wrong and you're right,

00:39:15.920 but you're right. This idea that what is the upside to that? You could very easily just drop this case,

00:39:22.920 quote unquote, and get back to just being a happy existence with the world. So were you someone who

00:39:30.640 would argue a point if you felt you were right? And because I've never known that side of you,

00:39:35.640 it's so hard for me to imagine you having any of that streak in you that I have, for example.

00:39:40.160 I'm Latin and hard, you know, hotheaded. I like literally, I would, less than that,

00:39:45.160 I would be too passionate about certain things. But think about it. There's always three sides to

00:39:50.260 an argument. Yours, theirs, and the truth. And if you start every argument understanding that you

00:39:55.220 don't have the truth, you have your truth, it's really easy to surrender to that. And most things

00:40:03.000 in life are a shade of gray and not completely black and white. And the problem is when we believe

00:40:09.280 we're right, we have made something black and white.

00:40:12.500 Do you think that that is something you knew beforehand and choose to ignore? Or is it

00:40:17.520 something that you somehow came to you as an epiphany as a result of this?

00:40:21.780 This is my mom's teachings. But I ignore them.

00:40:25.220 You ignore them.

00:40:25.280 Yeah, yeah, yeah. My favorite, I plagiarize most of the things I've said in being Puerto Rican and

00:40:32.340 learning English when I came to college here. I literally, I'm constantly collecting new thoughts

00:40:37.480 from others. I had an original thought after the plane crash, like mine. Like I could literally claim

00:40:43.680 this set of words, may have been odder, but I've never heard them. And it is that I collect bad wines.

00:40:50.220 You know, now I plagiarize that from you.

00:40:52.500 Oh, good. Finally.

00:40:54.100 Tell us why you do that. Cause I love it.

00:40:56.160 I collect bad wines is the trigger thought for not postponing anything. And the thought is if you go

00:41:04.980 to my house, I have a lot of bad wine because if the wine is ready and the person is there,

00:41:09.900 I'm opening my best one. This changes in an instant. I don't want to leave with a bunch of

00:41:14.700 good wine that I never drank. And it's a way of living. It's a way of living in everything.

00:41:20.060 So collecting bad wines means so much. It just means taking the trip, making the call,

00:41:26.760 taking the risk, having the courage, forcing yourself to things that you know you need to do.

00:41:33.360 I know you know this, but I was 45 pounds heavier at the time when this happened. And this was a

00:41:39.320 commitment of me and saying, I'm doing all of this. It becomes very centering.

00:41:43.420 Which by the way, a little counterintuitive. Some would argue, good thing you had those two ice

00:41:49.160 creams. Wouldn't you have regretted it if that plane's crashing and you're like, man,

00:41:53.560 I just wanted those two ice cream. You can take these things to two different extremes. And there

00:41:57.880 is a bit of a contrast, which is on the one hand, you're living for the moment, in which case we

00:42:03.760 should be as hedonic as possible. But at the other hand, you've lost 45 pounds. You were healthy to

00:42:08.680 begin with, but you're much healthier today. You're probably 10 years younger physiologically,

00:42:13.440 which is a very forward looking point. How do you reconcile those completely at odds

00:42:19.820 behaviors or behaviors is the wrong word, but viewpoints?

00:42:23.300 I still have the ice cream. I think again, it's a notion of balance. I think it's defining the game.

00:42:28.620 Is your game longer or shorter today?

00:42:31.500 So there's a book that it's coming out called the infinite game. And I believe in the infinite game

00:42:38.640 before the book, Simon Sinek, and he's great. He's a friend. And he wrote this book. It's very

00:42:44.580 much a philosophy of which I live life, which is the whole purpose of the game is to play the next

00:42:50.440 game. There's no winning. There's no outcome. There's no end. So because I play the infinite game

00:42:58.360 in life, I want to be healthy enough to continue to play the game. I can win the game of complete

00:43:04.800 pleasure for a day, a month, a year, but then I lose my ability to keep playing the game.

00:43:09.540 It's called the infinite game. It's phenomenal.

00:43:11.260 Yeah. I've heard him speak about it. I'm looking forward to it very much.

00:43:14.480 I want to go back to sort of the winter and spring of 2009. You did mention in your TED talk that,

00:43:22.000 I don't know if it was weeks later or some period later, you're at a recital for your

00:43:25.540 daughter. Tell me about that.

00:43:27.560 Do you ever watch the movie Ghost?

00:43:29.320 That's the Bruce Willis or...

00:43:31.300 No, Patrick Swayze.

00:43:32.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:32.900 Yes, many, many years ago.

00:43:34.680 Many years. And there's a scene in that movie where he's dead and he's the ghost and he's

00:43:38.100 watching. He's seeing life as it's happening. And I felt like I was sitting there and it was

00:43:43.960 probably two weeks later or something. It was a very recent. And I felt like I was the ghost.

00:43:50.200 Like I was not supposed to be there. And here I'm watching my daughter and just completely bawling.

00:43:58.380 And people around me, I'm like, this is supposed to be a happy play. And I was bawling because I was

00:44:06.020 giving that gift of seeing her on that stage. And by the way, it doesn't have to be a stage.

00:44:12.840 It doesn't have to be a play. The magic of seeing your kids every day grow up, if you want to choose

00:44:18.800 to see it that way, it can be equally powerful. So it was a moment where I realized, wow, this is the

00:44:27.280 gift is to be able to watch my kids grow up. And it was centering around that of all my priorities

00:44:34.140 is my most important one.

00:44:36.140 How did your travel schedule and your relationship with work change as a result of this? Was that a

00:44:42.600 quick change? Was it a gradual change? I remember you sat me down six years ago and showed me your

00:44:49.220 calendar. And we walked through sort of the way you ran things. Tell me a little bit more about that

00:44:55.840 today.

00:44:56.140 Time is our only currency. It's the only thing that matters. In our civilization, we solve for wealth

00:45:03.400 first. But find any really rich person that is old or sick, and they'll trade it all for more time.

00:45:12.120 It's worth pausing on that for a moment because most people listening to this think, sure, sure,

00:45:16.820 sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's easy to say. But I've asked the following question to probably 50

00:45:22.800 patients and more than 100 people, I'm sure. And the answer is always the same, which is you ask

00:45:28.360 someone who's at the age of 40, 50, 60, would you trade places with someone who's 90 years old

00:45:36.280 in exchange for a trillion dollars? And everybody thinks about it for a second and goes, well,

00:45:42.080 no. I actually do the math. I said, well, take your age now, subtract it from the age of 90,

00:45:48.980 take that delta, divide it by the trillion. You're telling me that you value time more than this.

00:45:55.180 You could actually make a calculation and it's telling you how valuable time is to you when

00:46:00.100 phrased that way. And most people don't appreciate that. I certainly at times fail to appreciate just

00:46:05.020 how much of a premium I truly place on time. And yet, like, you know, even today before we started

00:46:09.640 this podcast, I was lamenting the fact that I agreed to take a call as a favor to somebody and it like

00:46:15.140 ate into an hour of my day. And I was sort of like, sometimes I just don't say no enough. I don't

00:46:20.380 protect time enough. And yet, if I did that calculation more, I would. So how did you

00:46:25.600 calculate that and how did you implement it? I'll tell you, but you reminded me of one of my

00:46:29.760 favorite stories. And I tell this story to kids. I go speak in a lot of middle schools and I just,

00:46:35.440 or younger kids, and they're all caught up in all this material stuff. And I say, okay,

00:46:40.180 I'm going to give you a million dollars, but you have to give me your arms. And all the kids are,

00:46:45.480 no, no, no. I'm going to give you $5 million. You're going to give me your arms and your legs.

00:46:50.700 No, no, no. I can't give you $10 million, but you're going to give me your arms, your legs,

00:46:54.700 and your eyes. And the value of the story is you're already rich because you have your health.

00:47:00.860 Money really can't buy that. So value how lucky you are. The talk is around the power of luck.

00:47:08.680 And most of the things that show up as unlucky things end up being lucky things in life if you

00:47:13.120 choose to see them that way. And so you just reminded me of that story. So listen, I waste no

00:47:18.120 time. I waste no time. I only do things that I find that are aligned to what I want to,

00:47:24.800 what I'm prioritizing or that I enjoy a lot or that put me on a path forward of what I want.

00:47:30.520 And as a result, I am really comfortable saying no all the time. I'm very thoughtful and polite.

00:47:36.560 I don't join any outside boards. I have demoted friends that I outgrew so that I can make room for

00:47:42.600 new friends. I travel light. I travel light through light because I need to figure out a way to

00:47:48.420 increase the value of my time. I have an amazing chief of staff who solves for 40% of the stuff

00:47:55.800 that I shouldn't be doing and all that stuff. So I put enough structure around me that I can be

00:48:00.680 really efficient with my time, but it's really finding always more ways to do it. But saying no

00:48:06.180 is everything. How do you say no? First of all, if someone says, Hey, would you come speak at this

00:48:13.460 event? My answer is pretty standard. I'm honored that you would ask. I'm humble that you would ask

00:48:17.680 right now. My priorities are my family and growing our company. And as it is, I don't have enough time.

00:48:24.760 Eventually I hope to have time to do things like this. And if you would have me, I would love to do

00:48:29.620 it. Does it feel bad to say no? Oh, no. Because when you're saying yes, you're saying no to something

00:48:35.220 else. So everything in life has a price. You know, it's so funny. I interviewed a good friend

00:48:40.560 of mine, Jason Freed, and he said the exact same thing, which is such a beautiful way to think

00:48:44.480 about it is every time you say yes, you're actually saying no to a number of things that you can't

00:48:48.980 anticipate between now and then. It's easy to say, oh, do you want A or B? It's hard to say you want

00:48:53.800 A or door number B and you don't know what it is. And most times we don't know. Opportunity cost is

00:48:58.500 really, it's by the way, one of the keys to business is not settling for good and waiting for great.

00:49:05.220 How many days a month do you think you traveled prior to 2009?

00:49:09.460 I went and tracked it. I was probably on the road 15 nights.

00:49:14.960 15. And what is it today?

00:49:18.240 That's not vacation with my family?

00:49:19.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, time away from family.

00:49:21.840 Four.

00:49:22.360 Wow.

00:49:23.020 And it's literally decreased like one per year. And I track it.

00:49:26.580 I track now too, thanks to you.

00:49:28.340 Good.

00:49:28.540 This is the first year I'm going to break, but meaning I'll be less than 10 days a month away

00:49:34.000 from family. I'll average through December 31st, I'll hit 9.9.

00:49:38.380 Wonderful.

00:49:39.440 I want eight next year.

00:49:40.960 That's the way to go. We focus on what we measure. It's just our brains are destined.

00:49:46.700 So that's what they say. It's a dream until you write it down and then it's a goal.

00:49:50.020 It's the same thing. It's the same principle.

00:49:52.120 Do you think your kids at the time knew what happened?

00:49:54.900 Yeah.

00:49:55.200 They were sort of six and seven, right?

00:49:56.840 Yeah. They kind of understood that something really big had happened, but it really impacted

00:50:01.240 him. My son just did a project of his identity in life. And one of the central story was this

00:50:08.000 story. I didn't even know. And he's 18, right? So it tells you how hopefully it gave him context

00:50:15.080 of enjoying life.

00:50:16.640 You said something earlier that I just thought was so incredible and I can't stop thinking

00:50:20.200 about it. This idea that Sully basically said, you are only a pilot when you lose an engine.

00:50:27.800 Like everything you've done is sort of preparation for that one defining moment of your life.

00:50:35.060 Have you thought about ways that that extrapolates to what it means to be a father, what it means to

00:50:41.380 be a husband, what it means to be a CEO? What are the equivalents of the engine losing moment when

00:50:47.480 the rubber hits the road and all that other stuff is just there to prepare you for that moment?

00:50:54.080 The easy answer on the business side is you're only a leader in a moment of crisis.

00:51:00.880 Otherwise, you're just in charge. So, and you as a leader have to prepare yourself for the moment

00:51:06.480 of crisis and it's going to come. And unfortunately, because economically we've been in such a benign,

00:51:12.460 10-year period, there's a lot of people that don't have the temperament to deal with what's coming.

00:51:18.120 Maybe in a year, maybe in three, maybe next month. It doesn't matter. It's coming. There's going to be

00:51:21.940 a year. So that's the easier one is bringing your organization along to understand that when things

00:51:28.200 change, we're going to have to lead and doing fire drills around it and doing scenario planning

00:51:33.080 around, okay, what happens if we have a data breach? What happens if we have this issue? What

00:51:37.220 happens? Like all those things we do, not constantly, but we do it enough to create consciousness

00:51:42.120 about it. And then time will tell. When the crisis comes, are you going to be able to lead or not?

00:51:48.040 I find it interesting when people call themselves leaders and they've never done anything in a time

00:51:52.780 of crisis. I'm like, oh, you're in charge. I'm not sure you're a leader yet. I think with kids,

00:51:58.000 we, like many other families, have had to deal with our share of experiences with teenagers that are

00:52:03.120 very, very hard and our kids are in a good path and they're going to be great, but it hasn't been

00:52:08.080 easy at all and has been really, and Brenda and I talk about it a lot. Not only has it united us

00:52:14.780 even stronger to help our kids through their situations, but it is, I've learned more about

00:52:20.860 myself through being a dad because hard driving people like you and I think we know. And what you

00:52:26.960 realize is that your key of being a father or mother is to find their gift and then to help them

00:52:34.320 get to their gift and accept them for their strengths and their weaknesses. And the last thing

00:52:40.220 you want a kid to feel is shame. And when we want something different for our kids than what they seem

00:52:48.380 to want, there's a high chance you end up shaming them without wanting to or guilting them.

00:52:53.260 So I think for a parent to lead is to meet the kid where they are and finding their natural bent

00:53:03.240 and encouraging it and making them their various version of themselves. And that was not apparent

00:53:09.200 to me when I signed up for this. This has been with two teenagers that are super gifted and super

00:53:14.680 kind, but they are teenagers and they have to deal with a lot of stuff. You and I didn't have to deal

00:53:19.580 and it's not easy. I'm dreading every second of it, truthfully, because I do think kids today

00:53:24.320 live in a world, maybe every parent says that. Maybe my parents felt the same way. Who knows? But

00:53:29.380 I think it's, I think it looks brutal to be a teenager today.

00:53:34.120 Maybe what I'm telling you is that you're going to have to grow up a lot to be able to do that well.

00:53:38.860 That's what we've seeked a lot of help and it's been great. And we have dug in and we've done a lot

00:53:45.380 of research and we tried a lot of things that haven't worked and it's a real commitment. And

00:53:50.360 by the way, we're not out of the woods yet. It's a, it's a, well, I mean, I'm just going to get

00:53:54.920 incredibly selfish for a moment and just ask for some advice. So how do you handle things like

00:54:00.200 electronics and social media? Like what have you learned? And this doesn't necessarily have to be

00:54:04.220 at the expense of your own relationship with your kids, but even from other parents, again,

00:54:08.280 you have a company of thousands of employees. You have a purview into the lives of more than just your

00:54:13.560 own. What advice do you give parents who are trying to think through those issues? I'll tell

00:54:18.320 you an anecdote. So last week, my daughter's school had a trip to Disneyland and my daughter is one of

00:54:23.300 the few kids in her class that does not have a smartphone or a cell phone at all. So most of the

00:54:27.720 kids do and they're driving up and it's my wife and another mom that are driving up in sort of the

00:54:32.740 minivan and there's the four kids are in the back and three of them have a phone and my daughter

00:54:37.500 gets my wife's phone and they're playing with it. And at one point my wife looks back and she says,

00:54:41.200 all four of them are glued to the phones. They're not talking, they're not interacting at all. It's

00:54:46.120 like a road trip and they're all glued to these phones. And so she sort of says, hey guys, let's

00:54:50.620 put the phones away and you guys got to do something. You got to talk, you got to play a

00:54:53.960 game, you got to whatever. Okay, well, extract that moment for a second and you realize there is a lot

00:55:00.500 of stuff that they're missing. And you could argue, look, maybe they're getting things we didn't

00:55:04.220 get that were better for them. Who knows? But to see the lack of basic socialization concerns me.

00:55:10.440 How do you, or what advice do you have to navigate that?

00:55:14.760 I don't have better advice than others. I think kids should be kids, meaning parents should decide

00:55:20.600 what are the controls. You don't give kid a remote to the TV and say, do whatever you want. I think

00:55:26.880 my mom said, which I love, raising teenagers is a tug of war you ultimately must lose because that's

00:55:32.880 how they become adults. So there has to be enough tension. You can't lose at 13. It's at 19. They have,

00:55:39.180 but you have to be losing incrementally. Yeah. You can't be winning and then lose. So it's a tug

00:55:44.000 of war that you're the resistance. So you also have to think about it kid specific. Every kid is

00:55:48.660 different, age specific, but you also don't want them to be the misfit. You also don't want them to

00:55:54.360 be missing out. And we kind of tend to project our reality into others. They're going to live in a

00:55:59.740 world where your kids are probably never going to drive. Your kids are going to live with probably not

00:56:06.420 even a cell phone. They're going to see screens in their glasses. They're going to do all this stuff

00:56:10.640 that you can't even understand. They're going to live in a mix of a VR world and a real world.

00:56:16.700 You want your kid to be able to be successful, happy, settle, whatever it is, your goal in that

00:56:21.880 world, not in 1982 of the VHS. So you also got to remind yourself that this is a-

00:56:28.700 You can't hold onto the past so much.

00:56:30.100 And, you know, I find very interesting. I have this conversation with lots of friends. If you ask

00:56:34.520 anybody, what is your goal for your kid? They'll tell you some version of the same thing. Happy,

00:56:40.060 well-adjusted, contributing, growing, finding their passion, whatever BS we'll talk. And we mean it.

00:56:46.680 But then you watch the way we raise kids is overschedule, two sports, a trainer, a this,

00:56:54.380 that, another coach, pre-SAT, pre-SAT, pre-this, take it six times. Did that really help?

00:57:00.380 That stressing kids out to that extent, they're like, oh, why are they so stressed? Well,

00:57:03.780 we're making them super stressed. This culture is stressful enough. And I think as parents, we

00:57:07.720 judge so much of our own self-esteem by what others think about our kids that we fail to

00:57:13.740 understand what really is our goal. If you really want your kid to be happy, adjusted, whatever,

00:57:18.300 you would do a lot of things differently. So back to your question of just remind yourself,

00:57:22.920 what is it that you're trying to do? And try to align to that.

00:57:26.480 It's a great point you make about, you know, I was telling you a story before we started about my

00:57:30.960 son and that moment I had in that experience where I realized, man, how is it that I've let my ego

00:57:37.140 become tied up in his behavior? How is it that how he behaves in public as a five-year-old and when he

00:57:43.880 has a temper tantrum, I somehow internalize that as people are looking at me as a bad parent. I mean,

00:57:48.860 it's, it feels so silly to even say that out loud, but I don't think I'm the first person

00:57:54.360 that's felt that. And that gets carried forward. I think that is such a big part of the overscheduling

00:58:01.320 overdoing it. It's hard. We make so many mistakes ourselves and we look at each other. I'm like,

00:58:06.020 what are we doing? Like, it's a long race. I do believe, I think it was outliers or whatever,

00:58:11.300 but I do believe that the more you make kids feel comfortable and successful in the race they're on,

00:58:16.980 we judge ourselves against a relative set. So put kids in situations that they feel like they

00:58:22.260 are progressing and they'll find whatever their ceiling is in the long, long enough time.

00:58:29.100 So many kids quit sports because we push them too hard, too early. And they're like,

00:58:33.440 this doesn't feel good. This has produced no endorphins at all in the country. Right? So

00:58:39.200 I think a lot of the issues with kids in this age is the parents, not the kids. And we want to

00:58:44.600 blame electronics and all this stuff that are issues. But the issue is really that I don't

00:58:49.400 think we're that honest as parents in terms of our goals and our actions.

00:58:53.800 Why do you think that has changed in a generation? I mean, you've spoken a little bit about your

00:58:58.600 parents and it's kind of amazing, right? So they seem to be wise beyond their years. Your mom's

00:59:04.400 comment about the tug of war that has to slowly be lost is honestly one of the most insightful

00:59:10.780 things I've ever heard about parenting. Were your parents as educated as you are?

00:59:15.280 I was born in a Latin family and my dad is an amazing guy, but my mom raised us four kids in

00:59:20.120 six years. And I think that the definition of one's life success is where do you come from and

00:59:26.300 where did you end? Did you help advance the cost of our race, the human race? And you do that

00:59:32.360 through your family first. And if you're lucky enough through your community, if you're lucky

00:59:35.580 enough in a broader way, like you who are impacting a broader set of people. But I think the ultimately

00:59:41.160 goal of life is to make it better for others, starting with your kids. And I think my mom is the

00:59:47.060 most successful person I know because of what she was given versus what she gave us.

00:59:52.180 How old were you guys when you left Puerto Rico?

00:59:53.900 I came to the U.S. to go to college. So I came to Boston College in January of 1990.

00:59:59.340 Oh, so your family stayed?

01:00:00.880 Yeah, born and raised.

01:00:01.700 Okay. What was that like to show up in Boston at 18 or whatever you were?

01:00:06.780 Ignorance is a wonderful bliss. If I knew what I did not know, I would have never come.

01:00:13.760 I really think that ignorance is a bliss. I showed up as a second semester freshman because it was the

01:00:18.500 year after Doug Flutie and there were no dorms. And my parents are like, we're not paying for an

01:00:22.580 apartment. So I came as a second semester freshman and they put me on a plane. They gave me 200 bucks.

01:00:27.200 My dad said, go be a man. And I got on a plane. I didn't even know how to go to the gate by myself.

01:00:32.840 Traveled a few times out of Puerto Rico. And what I realized as soon as I got to Boston is I didn't really

01:00:37.980 understand English and I was ill-equipped to go to college. But overcoming that was the greatest gift.

01:00:43.620 Why did you go so far into such a cold place? Why didn't you go to school in Florida, for example?

01:00:47.980 I don't know. My uncle said, Boston is great. So I said, Boston is great. Doug Flutie said,

01:00:53.620 I was raised in a Catholic school. So Boston College was Catholic. So I just,

01:00:58.500 I landed. I'm like, what in the world is this? And I ended up in the freshman camp.

01:01:03.160 Because you said second semester. So it's winter when you showed up.

01:01:05.440 And I showed up five days before anybody. I had 200 bucks and I have lots of stories of like

01:01:10.380 completely embarrassing things that happened as I went through this. And because I was ill-equipped,

01:01:15.920 I was a misfit in every regard. And I never faced racism, which I did at the time. I faced all sorts

01:01:21.320 of things that I'm glad I did. Because it made me a lot more aware of what other people go through.

01:01:26.340 What had your parents or your mom even specifically done to prepare you for that moment?

01:01:31.120 Taught me independence. Taught me that.

01:01:33.660 Where are you in the birth order of the?

01:01:35.320 Three out of four.

01:01:36.300 Did the two above you leave Puerto Rico for college?

01:01:39.520 My brother, one above, is in Kansas City as a doctor. And my sister went and then came back.

01:01:45.920 After a couple of years.

01:01:46.940 Did you talk to them about it before you left?

01:01:48.940 Technically, my brother wrote my essays.

01:01:53.880 I think I gave him something in Spanglish and he wrote them and I got in.

01:01:58.180 Hopefully, they don't take my degree away.

01:02:01.780 If so, we'll find somebody to give you an honorary one instead.

01:02:04.900 Tell me about the remainder of those three and a half years though.

01:02:07.280 Obviously, it set you on a good path and you decided to stay.

01:02:10.400 Yeah. I came here wanting to go back to Puerto Rico and halfway through and I'm like,

01:02:13.780 I love this country. I love what this is about.

01:02:16.260 I worked at Fenway Park as a security guard. I drove a limo in the summers.

01:02:20.360 So, I was hustling, making money. My dad said, I'll pay a third. You get loans for a third.

01:02:25.280 And I had an academic scholarship for a third, but you're responsible for your own money.

01:02:29.280 So, it was the greatest thing. Yet, I don't know why I wouldn't do that to my kids.

01:02:33.540 Because it's very different.

01:02:34.840 Do you think about that? Do you think about your story of coming here as an immigrant having nothing

01:02:40.340 is a story that many people can relate to. And because of your success, your kids have a privilege

01:02:46.180 that you've never had. How do you think about imparting on them some of the, I don't know if

01:02:53.560 lessons is the right word, or internal fortitude, or whatever, call it what you want to call it.

01:02:59.300 How do you think about that?

01:03:00.180 I actually think about it almost the inverse of what you said. I think it's really hard to

01:03:05.320 be our kids. I think we're giving them, not privilege, we're giving them a big, big cross

01:03:12.380 to carry. And I feel a lot of responsibility for not bearing so much of a shadow that my kids can't

01:03:20.380 find their own son. And we travel, we travel in certain ways, and whatever. What are you setting

01:03:24.840 our kids up for? I think it's really hard. It's a lot easier to grow up the way I did, which

01:03:29.820 I can do better. I think it's harder. And you have to set up a different game. You have to set

01:03:35.040 up a game that they feel they can win. And you have to get them thinking about the infinite game

01:03:40.380 of there's no end here. That's why so many of them end up in drugs and end up in other things,

01:03:44.620 because they say, that's not something I can be successful at.

01:03:47.560 First of all, I actually think you're correct. I think both of the statements are correct. So

01:03:51.860 it's harder and easier, and that the hardness and easiness are actually coexisting and creating

01:03:57.980 that dynamic. So you can't dim your own light. I mean, as you said, especially someone like you,

01:04:05.460 who's been kind of given this gift. We haven't even got to talking about Red Ventures, which I want to

01:04:09.180 in a minute. You can't not be Rick Elias. So how can they be your kids?

01:04:14.960 I think, first of all, it's not what you say, it's what you do. I work really, really hard. I want them

01:04:21.700 to understand that working hard is part of the way you achieve things in life. To me,

01:04:28.560 I don't have any issues with that. And as long as it's protecting our family time and what matters

01:04:33.520 to us, I think secondly, is how you treat other people. The best thing that you can do to teach

01:04:40.180 your kids how to live is to treat strangers with kindness. They're watching your every action.

01:04:46.460 They're watching. And by the way, you are a teacher all the time and not with your words because they

01:04:53.440 won't hear you, but with your actions. So every time you find yourself, which we all do, getting

01:04:58.320 upset about something with a driver or a waitress because something was cold or a manager because

01:05:03.600 they made you wait and you get a little righteous, which we all do, you're doing the opposite. You're

01:05:10.020 teaching them a behavior that is not going to help them. So I view our responsibility. The best thing I

01:05:15.440 can do is model hard work, model giving and kindness, model good energy to other people,

01:05:21.220 respect. We're lucky to know a lot of people that others will consider super famous. And I treat them

01:05:26.100 exactly the same way that a stranger that is doing whatever job and they see that. So those are the

01:05:32.240 things, the only things you can do. You can't apologize for your success and you can't run away

01:05:36.160 from it, but you have to talk to them about not, Hey, I want you to get into an Ivy league school and I

01:05:42.980 want you to do all this stuff. I, you know, I want you to find your gift and I want you to figure out

01:05:48.520 a way to give that gift to others. Again, that's a, I think that's so well said.

01:05:53.580 It's hard. And I'm, this is not a perfect journey, right? We're full of flaws in it.

01:05:57.960 Were you ever a person that struggled to apologize before 2009? And if so, is it easier for you to

01:06:03.980 apologize today?

01:06:04.920 It was very hard. I'm very proud. I'm very competitive in those two things. And I can rationalize

01:06:10.300 anything as to why I was right. You know what, Peter, I apologize for things. I don't even know

01:06:15.140 what I did because I don't give a shit. If it's creating negative energy, I can really easily say,

01:06:20.320 listen, I am really sorry I offended you. It was not my intent. That's it. Move on. And I don't seek

01:06:26.400 to understand and argue the counter argument. I was like, does this really matter? Am I going to

01:06:30.620 remember it in six months? Is it going to change anything? Just move on. It's like a leakage of

01:06:36.380 energy. And when you leak energy, it consumes time. And that's your only currency. Imagine if

01:06:41.780 you were like your toilet was running of a hundred dollar bills nonstop. Like that's the

01:06:47.020 visual. That's what a silly fight is.

01:06:49.820 You know, you probably have the longest list of anybody I know of things that don't matter.

01:06:55.240 What is on your list of things that do matter? What is worth fighting for? What is worth being

01:06:59.560 upset about?

01:07:00.560 Those are two different questions. So that's why I might pause things that matter and things worth

01:07:04.640 being upset about. I think injustice is worth being upset about.

01:07:09.000 And obviously, based on everything you've said, it's not about your own injustice. When the Uber

01:07:12.720 driver doesn't show up and when the waitress spills your soup, that's not injustice.

01:07:16.900 It's, as you know, I'm attracted to places where the system fails people that can't help themselves,

01:07:23.660 that want to help themselves. That's kind of our sweet spot in all our social impact work.

01:07:28.060 Let's talk a little bit about that, actually.

01:07:29.820 I think to whom much is given, much is expected. And I think the best way to do

01:07:34.420 any type of social impact work is using your platform, not just using your wallet, if you

01:07:40.460 can. And so here I am, I have a thriving company with a lot of young people that are exceptional.

01:07:46.540 How do I put them to do something that matters to them, which is give back, thickens our culture,

01:07:52.580 but also allows us to do something that gives us a real purpose, which is leaving our woodpile

01:07:58.040 higher than we found it. That's what we talk about as a company. That's the only purpose of the

01:08:01.440 company. We're not going to go public. We're not going to sell. This is the infinite game. Someday

01:08:06.620 you'll go to zero. Hopefully someone else is running it. This is a way that we spend our energy

01:08:11.040 together, the people we work with and the problems we solve and all of that. So when you put it in

01:08:16.260 that context of none of this really ultimately matters other than advancing the game, I am attracted

01:08:21.640 to injustices where the system is not working. I'll give you an example will be undocumented kids.

01:08:26.720 They're known as DACA now and the Supreme Court is hearing the case. And these are kids that were

01:08:32.400 brought here without two years old, four-year-old, six-year-old illegally. The parents brought them

01:08:37.460 here illegally, but we don't check education for primary school, secondary school, or high school.

01:08:43.200 So many of these kids don't even know Spanish or whatever the language is. They never really

01:08:47.420 remember being in their country. And by the time they get to 18, we said, sorry, you can't go to

01:08:51.940 college. There's no federal financial aid because they're not citizens. And then there is no in-state

01:08:57.780 tuition in about 26 states. So their chances of going to college are basically zero. And I'm not

01:09:02.340 talking there's like thousands of these. There was about a million of these in 2010. Kids that were

01:09:08.120 zero to 18 that were investing all this money. So even if you want to take the Republican side of

01:09:12.840 this, which is a valid argument, they're going to be a lot more productive if you educate them.

01:09:17.240 That's the whole reason to do this. So they'll pay a lot more taxes. So DACA is, Obama passes

01:09:22.660 his executive order where he says, okay, if you graduate college and you are undocumented and you're

01:09:27.320 within these ages, you can get a work permit. So now going to college makes sense because it used

01:09:31.620 to be that you got an education. There was no way to get a job. And that's what's getting debated

01:09:37.300 right now. There's like 600,000 of these kids with work permits. We have about, I don't know,

01:09:43.280 probably 50 of them working at Red Ventures right now. So what I did is-

01:09:47.860 How many?

01:09:48.320 50.

01:09:48.980 Wow.

01:09:49.420 But we have 300 plus going through college that we're supporting. So Golden Doors College got

01:09:54.700 launched. We did our first class of 12, then 17, then 25, then 30. We're now reviewing applicants

01:10:00.760 for the next class. And this is the first time we're using non-doc. I said, if you're undocumented,

01:10:06.080 we're going to take a stance for you. And if you deserve to go to college, you are going to go.

01:10:10.460 Our top 200 candidates, Peter, 3.91 unweighted GPA. Unweighted. Think about the waste of talent.

01:10:18.240 None of those kids are going to college.

01:10:20.060 Tell me what happens to those kids if they don't go to college.

01:10:22.700 They end up working in a fast food place or just waste time. Many times they don't even find a job

01:10:29.160 because they don't have-

01:10:29.460 Do they ever go back to the country that they were born in?

01:10:31.800 That's the problem.

01:10:32.660 They don't feel culturally assimilated.

01:10:34.140 They're American. A lot of them don't find out that they're undocumented until they go take a

01:10:38.540 driver's license or something. They're like, you can't. It's very, very cruel for these kids. And

01:10:43.740 they're your kids' friends. And they're as American as our kids are. I find those kids did not commit a

01:10:50.120 crime. Those kids did not have a choice to move here at two years old. Those kids have done everything

01:10:54.680 we've asked them of the system. What is this country all about? Isn't this the country where

01:10:58.860 if you want to put in the work, we give you a chance? And so I find that to be a place that

01:11:04.060 we put a lot of energy towards. 18 to 24, there's about five and a half million young adults in the

01:11:09.860 U.S. These are not undocumented. These are citizens. Out of school or out of work, terminally

01:11:16.260 underemployed. Five and a half million. And I think companies can do a lot more for them. So we set up a

01:11:22.580 501c3 called Road to Hire, where we're training these kids in coding, in tech, back tech, and all this

01:11:28.720 stuff. And we're now opening the platform for the companies. So B of A and Novant and other

01:11:33.540 companies in Charlotte are literally hiring these kids. We train them. It's an adulting school for

01:11:38.000 six months. And we pay them to adult them. We train them skills. And then we'll put them in a

01:11:41.940 two-year apprenticeship program. And we hold our hands for two years. We have another program called

01:11:46.700 Live Sports. Eighth graders in Title I schools in Charlotte are two years behind on reading.

01:11:54.200 Charlotte is probably no different than other places. Title I schools is assisted lunch.

01:11:57.840 And our belief is that hope has an expiration date. And that expiration date, educationally,

01:12:04.200 comes about that age. And sports is a universal language. So we have basketball, soccer, girls

01:12:11.740 basketball, where we bring these kids in out of the worst schools every day. We give them usually

01:12:17.100 their last meal of the day. We give them an hour worth of reading because we think if they can catch

01:12:21.560 up with reading, they'll extend their hope. And then we give them an hour and a half worth of

01:12:25.200 exercise. Every weekend, there's activities. We have 250 kids now in the program. We started it

01:12:29.540 two and a half years ago. We're going to grow it. We're going to build our own facility. So

01:12:31.700 we're just trying to do our part. Like, it's our drops in the water, but they matter. And then for

01:12:36.960 me, it mattered after Hurricane Maria that I did something for Puerto Rico. So we launched

01:12:41.240 7-8 forward, 7-8-7. That's the area code. So we're training. Right now, we're training about 70

01:12:47.040 young Puerto Ricans in the U.S. that we want to reverse the brain drain. So we're going to bring them

01:12:51.800 back. We're giving them real digital chops. And we're going to move businesses to Puerto Rico so

01:12:56.600 that we can bring people back to Puerto Rico. I want to go back to the first of those because

01:13:01.200 you're not a dogmatic guy. You're not a self-righteous guy. You're a very empathetic person.

01:13:09.140 Help me see my blind spot, which is like you. Well, no, no, you're one ahead of me. I'm first

01:13:15.000 generation. So my parents came to the country with the $100 in the pocket sort of thing, worked like

01:13:20.500 crazy and now we get to live this better life. And because I saw a lot of that, I never really

01:13:25.880 understood the sentiment against immigration. Now, part of that is because I grew up in Canada. So

01:13:31.200 Canada, very different from the United States on many levels. If you were to try to explain

01:13:37.040 from the standpoint of empathy, what do you think is the view that sort of opposes immigration or

01:13:43.560 opposes immigration reform? Because even though you're very clearly on this side, you strike me as

01:13:49.600 someone who can also see the other person's viewpoint. I think immigration is one of the

01:13:53.520 hardest issues for us to contend because philosophically, this is a country of immigrants.

01:13:59.700 Practically, this is a country that has lots of issues with its own people. So this is not an easy

01:14:05.500 answer that you say, okay, here's the solution to immigration. And anything that we as a country

01:14:10.700 decide as a policy will have pros and cons. So I don't tend to profess that we need to have

01:14:17.840 immigration and we need to have immigration reform and we need to have better controls and we need

01:14:22.460 to figure out what we do with 10 million immigrants. By the way, if we take all the illegal immigrants

01:14:27.580 out of this country, we will not function because so many jobs that get done today that you and I

01:14:33.920 rely directly and indirectly, no one wants to do. Our unemployment rate is sub 4%. So it's not like we

01:14:41.080 have 18% unemployment rate and a line of people who want to do these jobs and immigrants are doing them

01:14:45.740 for half the money. No. There's no people that are sitting waiting to do a job and these jobs no one

01:14:52.540 wants to do. So I think this, we underestimate, but it's a real issue. And I think we have to deal

01:14:58.700 with those 10 million people. I think kids should be dealt with separately. These are the DACA kids.

01:15:04.760 And by the way, both Republicans and Democrats agree on the undocumented kids, but they don't want to

01:15:09.340 give it up because then you give up all immigration issue. Meaning it's the thin end of the wedge

01:15:14.420 towards a slippery slope of this. Right. And so that's what the argument has been. Well, I'll give

01:15:19.360 you that, but if we do this and I don't know if the answer is a wall or no wall, I'm not educated

01:15:23.460 enough. We need controls. We need smart immigration. We need, you know, the fact that we have all these

01:15:29.240 PhDs that we're educating at Stanford and all these places, and then we're sending them back when they

01:15:33.960 want to stay here. That doesn't make sense. Right. But it's not an easy answer. And there's a really

01:15:38.740 good argument to say, listen, we can't take our resources and you open up the gate with Mexico

01:15:44.020 and you have tens of millions of people from Central America and all that coming in. We

01:15:48.180 don't have our house in order enough to be able to absorb that as much of a humanitarian as you want

01:15:53.340 to be. But there should be a thoughtful way that we allow different types of people to come.

01:15:59.280 And some decisions could be very easy, which is any PhD out of our system. Some can be very

01:16:04.820 humanitarian. We're going to bring in this amount of people. Some of them can be very thoughtful in

01:16:09.860 terms of skills, but everything I get, I don't know enough, but there can be a lot around work

01:16:13.700 permits. Like the problem here is that it's an underground, it's an underworld. If you brought

01:16:19.360 it above board and, you know, about five years ago, maybe six years ago, I visited you at Red Ventures

01:16:25.740 and I got to spend a full day watching something you call the business review. I don't know why

01:16:32.320 I came for that, but I knew I was really looking forward to it. We must've been speaking about the

01:16:38.280 way you manage teams. I think it just interested the heck out of me. And I was like, can I come and

01:16:44.120 spend a day watching? And you were like, of course, we'd be honored to have you. I'll preface this by

01:16:49.340 saying, I don't have a degree in business. You went to Harvard, you have an MBA, but I was around a

01:16:54.800 lot of Harvard MBAs and Stanford MBAs and stuff because I worked at McKinsey. So I know, I mean,

01:16:58.900 I've been around the block. I can talk the talk a little bit and I mean, they at least know enough

01:17:02.380 to recognize when people know what they're talking about. I have never seen anything like I saw that

01:17:08.300 day, Rick, your ability to process information, to multitask, to make decisions, to sift through

01:17:18.280 what was not relevant and to always be asking the jugular question in the setting and context of

01:17:24.920 more information than could be processed by any person blew my mind. And to this day,

01:17:31.300 more than five years later, I still talk about that day constantly. And when I ran into Dan,

01:17:37.600 your partner, your co-founder, a few months ago, it was the first thing I asked him about. How are

01:17:42.960 the business reviews? Can you explain to people listening how this idea came about? Because I

01:17:50.440 suspect that anybody who leads a team in any domain will find this to be illuminating.

01:17:56.660 Yeah. First, I am humbled by your words. I'm not really sure that I buy all of that. I think that

01:18:01.740 I heard a quote that I love in life. There's two kinds of people. I heard it recently from a good

01:18:06.960 friend of mine, the humble and those that are about to be humbled. I think our journey was such a struggle

01:18:14.420 for the first four years. I don't know if you remember, we raised $2 million. And by November,

01:18:18.960 we had no revenues and a hundred grand left. And it took us three years to get back to zero. So

01:18:23.440 when you taste your own blood for a long enough period of time, you realize that a lot of this is

01:18:29.440 you got to fight the fight and you got to stay with it and you have to stay hungry. And a lot of this

01:18:34.420 for me is avoiding complacency and all the things that end up killing most organizations.

01:18:39.420 So really you had two deaths.

01:18:42.180 Probably. That's true.

01:18:43.320 You basically tasted death on January 15th, 2009, and you tasted death a few years earlier

01:18:48.640 than that from a business perspective.

01:18:50.700 Yeah. And for me, I gave my word to my friends that I was going to do all I could. And I wanted

01:18:58.040 to go to my reunions. I decided we're going to hustle and we hustle. And by the way, I am so glad.

01:19:03.420 It's such a rich part of who we are, the humility that you see in our building. We have this beautiful

01:19:08.780 campus, but I see car payments, but people see success and stuff. So the business reviews have

01:19:14.940 evolved and continue to evolve. One of our basic, and you know that I don't-

01:19:18.160 Maybe tell folks for a moment what Red Ventures does, even though I don't think that's relevant

01:19:21.320 to the story. I think if you were running any business, it would be the same way, but just

01:19:23.900 give people a bit of context.

01:19:24.840 So it's changed twice since you were there, but today we are a significant network of digital assets

01:19:31.880 that all have deep integrations into the different service providers. So we are trying to aggregate lots

01:19:38.040 of services that consumer price by owning assets like the point sky or bank rate of all connect or

01:19:44.500 health lines. So we have about 130 million uniques every month into our network of assets. And then

01:19:49.740 we do very deep integrations with all the services providers, all the card issuers, all the banks,

01:19:56.180 everybody in healthcare, and basically trying to change the consumer experience digitally.

01:20:00.680 That's a very different business than we were when you were there kind of five years ago.

01:20:04.520 I don't know if you remember, but I don't believe that business should be run with values. And I

01:20:10.380 had this really interesting debate with Meg Whitman at the same event we were at.

01:20:14.300 I didn't get to watch you.

01:20:15.600 Yeah. And she's a much more accomplished CEO than I will ever be and all of that. And she,

01:20:19.480 we were talking about culture and she said, hey, it's all about your values. And then they asked me

01:20:23.080 and I said, well, to me, values is a noun. And I don't know how to run a business with nouns. I know

01:20:28.620 how to run them with verbs. So we have a set of belief statements. By the way, we're not right,

01:20:32.880 just the way that we choose to use the word, but we have a series of belief statements that anchor

01:20:37.600 our culture. And in the middle of that belief statement, the core one in the middle is everything

01:20:42.560 is written in pencil. It's a wonderful belief statement because it helps us recruit. If you're

01:20:47.980 somebody who wants certainty, you want all this stuff, you're never going to fit in. It allows us

01:20:52.760 to evolve and change our mind because the world is changing so fast. So we're not anchor. And then

01:20:58.540 it really gives us permission to experiment because everything is written in pencil. The last one is

01:21:04.320 we believe that our leaving the wood power, then we found that is our purpose. So that's the...

01:21:08.700 Give us some of the others. The first one is we believe in running up the escalators.

01:21:12.200 So that means that business have to play with pace. This is not about speed, speed, speed. This is

01:21:17.040 about pace. The more reps you get, the more you iterate through problems. And business review is an

01:21:22.920 example of a place that forces reps. And what that means is how do you organize your organizational

01:21:28.400 design? How do you compensate people? All those things really, really matter. Running a company

01:21:33.560 is really like an orchestra. There's no right way. There's no perfect song as long as the orchestra

01:21:39.560 is in harmony. Where you get in trouble is where there's dissonance in the orchestra and you see

01:21:44.240 instruments kind of going their own way. So for us, it's really important that we're playing at a high

01:21:49.440 space. That doesn't mean we work till 7 p.m. every night, but we work hard. We're very purposeful.

01:21:53.860 We're small teams. We're decisive. We're okay. Most things in business are pass-fail, yet we are

01:22:00.640 trained our whole lives for grades. And I think where a lot of leaders get in trouble is this is why

01:22:06.020 people have a hard time prioritizing. This is a pass-fail event. I'll put in 20% of the effort.

01:22:10.820 I just pass. So in the business, really understanding what's pass-fail and what's graded is a really

01:22:15.660 important kind of skill. And you do that when it's pass-fail, you just run up the escalator.

01:22:21.340 So that will be another example. We're great people to work with. We believe that we want to

01:22:24.740 be great people to work with. And I think diversity really matters in a company because you make better

01:22:29.400 decisions. People not only feel accepted, they feel welcome. It is a way that it is important. But I

01:22:35.600 think what diversity does, it lends the opportunity to create inclusion. And if you think about a lot of

01:22:41.520 our social impact work and all of this, it's about creating inclusion for people that are not getting

01:22:45.720 access to certain opportunities that we were lucky to have. So being great to work with is to being

01:22:50.840 very, very much attuned that we all bring something unique to the company and to the table and so forth.

01:22:56.680 But since they're all written in pencil, they're all going to change.

01:22:59.180 So explain how business review works. I know it has changed, by the way, but even the example of the

01:23:03.720 one I saw, not that you could possibly remember that day five years ago or whatever, but you were

01:23:08.360 basically in a room and you sat at a conference table and there were business leaders basically

01:23:15.780 all presenting to you. And what was the format? How did it work?

01:23:19.420 It's 20 minute meetings. No charts are passed, nothing in color, none of that. A couple of

01:23:25.860 charts on the screen are fine, but you got to be able to get to your point.

01:23:29.200 Right. No big PowerPoint decks were being passed out.

01:23:31.840 No. And you had to start the meeting. Okay, here's the problem we're trying to solve,

01:23:35.920 or here's what we're trying to talk about. Like you have to define your problem and then you went

01:23:40.360 through it and then we concluded with something. So there's many ways to organize meetings. Amazon

01:23:45.000 does it with, you got to write something. I think it's five pages and you come prepared to the

01:23:48.920 meeting. There's no right way of doing anything as long as people understand how you are going to

01:23:54.200 calibrate work. But the pace of this was like nothing I'd ever seen because I remember when I was

01:24:00.480 getting ready to come forward and I wanted to sort of be mindful of what I was about to see. So I could,

01:24:04.900 if nothing, participate by asking a question that could be helpful. I remember them saying,

01:24:09.480 okay, so it's, uh, I forget the numbers, 27 meetings. And I was like, well, what do you mean

01:24:15.380 27 meetings? And they said, they're 20 minutes each. It's a 10 hour day. You know, there's an

01:24:19.500 hour break in there and we keep it. Everybody understands the clock. There is no, you play to

01:24:24.660 the clock. One person would stand up there and explain some problem about, Hey, we're doing this

01:24:29.120 deal with AT&T and it's got to look like this and it's got to look like this, but boy, we can't get

01:24:32.740 this deal done because blah, blah, blah, blah. And you would ask five incredibly pointed questions.

01:24:37.580 And I was like, wow, I mean, that's amazing because 10 minutes earlier, you were hearing

01:24:42.700 about something totally unrelated and you could pivot so quickly to this. And then you'd exit

01:24:48.060 with a plan, which is okay. Great. Here's an idea. You're going to go back to your counterpart

01:24:51.640 at AT&T. This is going to be the idea you're going to pitch. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

01:24:55.380 We'll see you in a month.

01:24:56.740 Let me open a window that I think it's an interesting thing. I learned this from a good friend of mine

01:25:00.400 that anything you do in life should be a threefer, meaning at least a threefer. Some things can be

01:25:05.380 a fourfer. And most people are happy to get a twofer. And what I mean is you can do something

01:25:09.340 that has many purposes. The quick example is you're going to go play golf because you play

01:25:13.500 golf. That's a onefer. If you go play golf at a beautiful course, that's a twofer at a beautiful

01:25:17.980 course with your best friends and with great weather. Great. So in business, the business review

01:25:22.360 is a fourfer for us. It's a way to force prioritization. It's a way to train people how to

01:25:30.140 percent. It's a high stakes environment.

01:25:32.960 Your team was so impressive. You're absolutely right about that. I've watched people. I mean,

01:25:36.760 I am a real stickler for having information presented and it just kills me to watch people

01:25:41.960 who can't get to the point. And there was not one example in 27 meetings of somebody who couldn't get

01:25:48.260 to the point.

01:25:48.860 I think our strength is there's 2,025 year olds at Red Ventures that have been trained at a level

01:25:55.680 because of all this exercise that it's great. It's the best business school for a lot of these

01:25:59.980 young adults. The third is it forces decision making. A lot of those things were tough decisions

01:26:05.600 and the worst decision is a no decision. So it forces decision. And the fourth is that it

01:26:10.800 acculturates. So it's a very much, there were teaching moments. There were things that happened.

01:26:16.160 You shut up with certain things, some things. So I'd like to set up as an organization,

01:26:21.780 if we're going to invest that kind of energy and time, something that has currency in many

01:26:25.800 different directions.

01:26:27.240 How did you sharpen your sword to get to that point? Is it literally just the reps?

01:26:31.480 It's reps. Intuition is nothing else. I haven't seen something before. And when you start getting

01:26:36.180 all this pattern recognitions because you've seen so many times the movie and the key is not to see

01:26:41.280 the movie, Peter, I think is to be introspective about what happened in the movie. So a lot of times

01:26:46.720 I'll finish a negotiation and I'm like, oh, I screwed that up. I did not read that cue.

01:26:51.560 I was too aggressive. Last night I had a dinner and it was really great. In the last five minutes,

01:26:55.760 I fumbled it. As soon as I got in the car, I'm like, what did you just do?

01:26:59.820 I don't want to make you talk too much about it, but can you say a little bit more about what it

01:27:03.200 is that you think you fumbled?

01:27:04.460 When you do a lot of interpersonal skills, the other person is talking to you nonstop without words.

01:27:10.800 And a lot of this is knowing when you stop. In my last two statements,

01:27:15.180 I lost some of the memento I got with the other 55 minutes and I just knew it in their eyes. That

01:27:21.960 doesn't matter, right? That's just part of the journey. So my point being is you got to be super,

01:27:27.880 self-awareness is really important in life. Self-management is the key to success.

01:27:33.120 Most people are like, I'm self-aware. Well, can you self-regulate? Can you self-manage? Can you think

01:27:37.060 about all the things you think about and you teach around longevity and nutrition and all that? It's the

01:27:41.500 self-management part of that that matters. I would take it one step further. I mean,

01:27:45.480 I think the self-management on the emotional level might be the single most important of them all.

01:27:49.660 To manage how you eat and exercise, I think is much easier than to manage

01:27:53.780 your thoughts and your emotions in terms of how you interact with the world.

01:27:58.220 That's so true. Yesterday morning, I had a negotiation. Someone flew in before I came to

01:28:02.680 New York and he was a pro. And the moment he sat down, I'm like, oh, this is going to be a good one.

01:28:07.080 And he was a master chess player. So I knew every time they asked something, he wasn't asking

01:28:12.200 something. So you're constantly going, okay, what's the question behind the question? What

01:28:15.820 is it that you're trying to angle? What is it you're trying to find? And good negotiation is when

01:28:20.760 you can find currency that they value more than you do. And then you find a way to make it work

01:28:25.680 for everybody. When someone is a very good negotiator and they're trying to do that, then you can almost

01:28:30.860 play the inverse game. It's like, can you create an impression of something so that you can create

01:28:35.360 value for something so that you can get something else? And then you're reading what they're doing.

01:28:38.820 So it's really fun.

01:28:39.420 Do you teach this deliberately to your teams? Because I got to tell you, I don't think that

01:28:44.960 reps alone are sufficient. In other words, you could put me into a hundred deals to negotiate.

01:28:50.440 I don't think I could ever extract the insights that you seem to extract. I think you're doing

01:28:55.720 something at a meta level that few of us do, which is, it's what you said. It's not just seeing the

01:29:00.480 movie. It's knowing what the movie means and knowing how to recreate pieces of the movie in

01:29:07.220 subsequent movies. That's a totally different skill. I don't have it. I know that for a fact.

01:29:11.160 To start, by the way, I don't think I'm great at it. I think there's much better people. So this is

01:29:15.280 a journey that there's always someone better than you. So I'm in this constant journey and want to

01:29:18.960 get better. Out of all this aspect, so the moment you think, I'd finish negotiations,

01:29:23.940 discussions were like, oh, there was a pro at the table and it wasn't me.

01:29:30.100 Like, oh, that was a masterful event. It was happening. You kind of laugh, but when you're

01:29:35.720 so attuned to it, every interaction is a game of influence with your kids, with your spouse,

01:29:41.540 with everything else. And it's not a negotiation. Negotiation means someone wins, someone loses.

01:29:46.520 You're constantly trying to influence with your thoughts and then you're allowing other people

01:29:49.800 to influence you. What type of person do you run from in business?

01:29:56.280 Negative energy, selfish.

01:29:58.960 What are the telltale signs of that? Because when that's obvious, those people usually don't

01:30:02.640 even get in the door. What are the subtle signs of that?

01:30:05.720 Like for us, pronouns really matter.

01:30:08.820 We versus I or?

01:30:10.360 Yes, but it's the subtlety on when you say it. Are you taking the credit for things? So you may use the

01:30:16.000 we, but it's all about you, right? So it's the next level of all of that. So how do you internalize

01:30:22.060 things? I'm looking for people that are really ambitious for something bigger than themselves.

01:30:26.820 And in that journey, they want to do well. They want to provide whatever it is, but it's much

01:30:30.560 bigger. If someone is interested in just one thing, I think we all have a competitive drive,

01:30:36.000 for example. So when I look at people, I'm trying to understand, and this is a little bit what I'm

01:30:40.100 trying to explore in the current podcast we're doing with all the super athletes is what's driving your

01:30:44.800 competitive spirit. And I've kind of honed it down. And again, I played to rise this from somebody.

01:30:49.880 So, but you're either driven by competing and killing a competitor. Think of Muhammad Ali or

01:30:55.840 somebody, right? Like he needed to see the other person stand over them. You're driven by fear of

01:31:01.020 failure. I just interviewed an erotic in the first episode of this podcast. And you can tell he's like,

01:31:06.280 listen, I was driven completely by fear. But what you see is the first person is a warrior and the

01:31:13.000 warrior, unless they evolve, they know they'll lose the last battle. And therefore they quit.

01:31:20.140 And you see it in sometimes in boxing, they come back for one more and that's when they lose and

01:31:24.320 whatever. The person that is motivated by fear eventually taps out out of exhaustion. And the

01:31:31.580 more successful that they become, the harder they fall. They're like, I got to run. And I see a lot

01:31:36.360 of friends of mine who quit at 48, 50, 52, and they have all this gas in the tank. And I realize

01:31:42.480 many of them are driven by fear of failure and they just don't want that. The value of success is

01:31:48.000 so much less than the pain of failing that they can't take the trade anymore. The success became

01:31:54.140 too significant. The third in where I'm like really focused on is, is the people that love to compete

01:32:01.040 because they just love to get better all the time. It's a race against themselves. One is like a race

01:32:07.220 against somebody. The other one is a race against fear. The other one is a race against yourself.

01:32:11.000 And I find people that have that energy, have a better balance about it and can run the longer

01:32:19.120 race. And if you see people like, I know lots of guys that are in their sixties or seventies that are

01:32:24.300 still refusing to let the old man or old woman in is because they're driven by the game by getting

01:32:30.320 better. Professionally, how much of your energy is into your business versus your philanthropy?

01:32:35.360 Not time, but energy. It was 0% six years ago. It's probably 15% now going to go to 30. Eventually

01:32:44.980 it will be 50. What do you want to accomplish philanthropically that you have not yet accomplished

01:32:50.620 and not just necessarily at scale? Is there a problem that you have not yet gone after because

01:32:57.300 A, you haven't acquired the knowledge. B, you haven't thought of the angle at which you can have the

01:33:02.360 most leverage, but there's a problem that's nagging. Again, because there's no winning.

01:33:07.200 You're just advancing something forward. I am very motivated by reversing a bunch of the trends in

01:33:13.960 Puerto Rico. I'm not going to solve Puerto Rico. I may barely do anything, but I think I can do

01:33:19.140 something to start reversing some of the trends. I think the bigger opportunity I see is how do

01:33:24.500 companies become a force of good? How do business leaders see themselves and their responsibility to be a

01:33:30.200 force of good in their communities? I think this platforms or businesses are so powerful,

01:33:35.000 not just monetarily, but as engines of people and problem solving and access to opportunities that I

01:33:42.220 want us to become a bit of a beacon of like, wow, you can be successful and be good at the same time.

01:33:49.640 And they don't have to come against each other.

01:33:51.260 Do you think that public companies can do that? Is that part of your decision to stay private?

01:33:56.040 I just, I don't like authority. So I hate having a stock ticker on my head. So that's why I don't

01:34:01.220 want to be public. But I think public companies today, this is a Milton Friedman kind of challenge.

01:34:07.600 And Simon talks about it in that book is shareholder at the center. That's changing. Look at what the

01:34:12.500 business council just announced in the last couple of months. Hey, there's a bunch of stakeholders

01:34:16.100 here. These are pendulums that swing. When we get a fairly far left precedent in our country,

01:34:22.480 a lot of this stuff may change. And so these are pendulums. This is, this is not new.

01:34:28.980 What challenges you the most in your business today? You get a great challenge. You play

01:34:32.600 basketball. It's still such a huge part of your life. You are so competitive with yourself in

01:34:37.420 basketball. What are you trying to sharpen your sword in business? I mean, you talked a lot,

01:34:41.200 a little about negotiation. Obviously I can sense in you this passion to be better and better and

01:34:45.620 better at that and to understand the relationship and the dynamic. Cause obviously the best

01:34:50.260 negotiation is one and when both people win, what other skills are you honing?

01:34:55.040 The answer you may not like, but I feel like I'm over my head right now. This is so much fun.

01:35:01.340 I'm like trying to run the matrix. We are in seven industries from financial services to healthcare

01:35:07.140 to entertainment. We're building a lot of tech and I'm not a techie and we're a techie company.

01:35:12.540 We have 800 engineers and I'm not an engineer. How many total employees right now?

01:35:16.840 30, 200. We have 200 employees in London. We have 110 in Brazil. So you got to know countries,

01:35:22.800 you got to know markets. And most challenging is we grew organically for a long, long time. So we

01:35:28.920 were almost like a culture of settlers. So you came through our system and we've done a number of

01:35:34.720 acquisitions and now we become a culture of immigrants. And when your culture is your competitive

01:35:40.300 advantage, which I think a hundred percent it is, and you have added so much newness to it,

01:35:46.360 you know, leading our way through it is really challenging. And I have no idea what I'm doing.

01:35:50.400 I'm like Forrest Gump. I just show up every day and I give it a really, you know, all my effort and

01:35:55.160 I can't get fired, which is good. And if it goes to zero, it goes to zero. I don't care.

01:36:00.580 Somehow I wouldn't bet on that.

01:36:01.680 No, for sure. I am a hundred percent sure that if Red Ventures went to zero.

01:36:05.120 No, no, no, no. I'm not sure if it goes to zero. In 30 days, I'll be super happy to go to zero.

01:36:09.580 I'm found purpose in something else. None of this stuff really matters.

01:36:12.640 There are a few people who can say that with more certainty than you. But of course,

01:36:17.240 that's probably exactly why it doesn't happen. I'd certainly bet against it. If you go back

01:36:22.640 to the morning of Thursday, January 15th, 2009, and you could run into yourself as he's leaving his

01:36:29.580 hotel, rushing to the airport, and you couldn't tell him what was going to happen, but you could say

01:36:34.040 anything to him, what would you say?

01:36:35.360 Don't miss that flight. That was the most remarkable, remarkable gift I ever got. And

01:36:42.960 I feel bad. There's people that were on that flight that will never fly again. I know there are people

01:36:49.300 on that flight that still can't sleep well. And I am really sorry for that. I'm really lucky that

01:36:54.140 the way it landed in my system was it gave me urgency, it gave me purpose, it gave me humility,

01:37:00.300 it gave me a game to play, which is a game with no regrets.

01:37:05.700 Rick, I can't thank you enough. I don't know what I did deserve two hours of your time today,

01:37:09.280 but you've given a great gift to a lot of people.

01:37:11.600 An honor to be here. You are one of a kind. I learn so much from you every time and thank you

01:37:16.700 for being my friend.

01:37:17.620 Thank you for listening to this week's episode of The Drive. If you're interested in diving deeper

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01:39:49.200 I'll see you then.

01:39:51.080 Bye-bye.

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The Peter Attia Drive - July 04, 2022

Earning the gift of life ｜ Ric Elias (#79 rebroadcast)

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