00:09:38.640Isn't that one of the most eminent ones?
00:09:39.940Because I think this fellow, this chap, had an association with Jesus College.
00:09:46.120And there had been some quite funny, some sleuths have gone to work in the last 48 hours
00:09:56.220or so, and they've discovered that Jesus College rather surreptitiously edited their
00:10:00.540website um to downgrade this the the status that this person had had conferred on them by jesus
00:10:07.920college they changed it from something like professorial fellow which sounds really grand
00:10:12.540just to straightforward straightforward fellow but yes you clearly you have lots of institutions
00:10:18.120university of glasgow uh is another one i've now seen that there's some charity um i don't know
00:10:23.920can't remember whether it's care for cali but some charity with which this um jason arday character
00:10:28.080was involved who've also sort of been uh you know uh editing the past uh scrambling to edit the past
00:10:34.720yeah what a what a freak i've always said one of the things i hate most is lying there's one thing
00:10:41.520to get something wrong in good faith there's nothing to just deliberately lie and i've said
00:10:47.200the only i hate it so much only very very small white liars are permissible in my in my world
00:10:53.600someone asks you if they've got a cute baby and it's not a cute baby and you go yeah yeah no it
00:10:58.640is yeah beautiful yeah that's all right anything beyond that like actually just making stuff up
00:11:05.500about your past and plagiarizing stuff oh when that matt goodwin was caught wasn't he was he not
00:11:11.920of plagiarizing things that's just honestly honestly gross it's like it's up there with
00:11:16.740like stealing for me um okay all right let's move on uh very quickly because it's not an important
00:11:24.160story in the scheme of the world um but this afghan migrant who went on a small boat to greece
00:11:31.500and then married some sort of not uh he married some woman that was to do with the refugee thing
00:11:38.860and then he murdered some english woman and stuffed in a suitcase in fact i think is it the
00:11:44.040son yeah they've got pictures of him that's a suitcase with a body in it yes um not a big deal
00:11:50.100in the scheme of things the individual case of a murder but it is all over it is sort of a big
00:11:54.120thing in the news cycle today so i don't know if you want to make any sort of comment on it but
00:11:59.180well we should probably relate it to um to um when we uh to the question of uh reform's recent
00:12:06.720offering operation fortress later when we get when we get around yeah it's very germane to that of
00:12:12.120course and it's just maybe particular to the sort of criticism that i would want to make of
00:12:16.540reform's ostentatious announcement to that effect yesterday i think i think i mean in in in a
00:12:24.100sentence um it is exactly that um case that underscores for us the fact that this is a
00:12:30.320problem that originates in the mediterranean not in the english channel and i think i think that
00:12:35.820Our efforts should be pan-European and focus there rather than, you know, I don't think that we should be indulging an admittedly irresistible urge to stick it to the French.
00:12:48.260I know that's a very tempting thing for English people to want to do. It's sort of acceptable form of xenophobia in the post-war era.
00:12:54.240You're allowed to mock the French for being cowardly in 1940, even though the French have over centuries proved a very courageous and ingenious people.
00:13:05.820i i regard this as sort of low iq xenophobia uh um to which many uh i would be in favor of a more
00:13:14.220sort of pan-european approach perhaps british-led in in the mediterranean for the interests of the
00:13:18.860constant as a whole in a way that sustains our friendships with our european friends and
00:13:24.220partners which seems to me to be much wiser than um you know straightforwardly violating their
00:13:29.340territorial integrity when they probably have more leverage than we do uh as it relates to
00:13:34.300goings on in the channel okay that's interesting sort of a pan-european thing says a few specific
00:13:39.660islands in the aegean sea of greece aren't there and some italian islands in i suppose the adriatic
00:13:47.260or whatever uh the like massive massive hot spots for this stuff so i mean should we just um
00:13:53.900i'll just quickly say burnham's gone on holiday after just two weeks in the job don't worry he's
00:13:57.820still in contact with his civil servants there in the cabinet office gone on holiday cheeky
00:14:01.980so and so all right should we get to let's see as you brought it up it was in the mirror look
00:14:09.160at the mirror the mirror has probably got the worst reformed arrangement syndrome out of any
00:14:14.260of the papers it's like worse than the guardian it seems to me they go with uh hard right party
00:14:21.680in chaos like reform of hard right hard right party for raj's sinking ship that's their headline
00:14:28.680Front of Centre. Reforms a Navy plan to halt the small boats torpedoed by experts. Lame bid,
00:14:36.700I think it's a lame bid to distract from pole woes and sleaze probes falls flat.
00:14:44.480Nigel's push to send Navy to stop small boats is ripped apart last night and they mentioned that
00:14:50.620The French said it violates their sovereignty and various people in, well, Labour and Tories
00:15:01.640There was one of the papers front and centre had, it was about, Olukemi Badenoch, the Nigerian
00:15:07.980woman, the anchor baby, somehow finds herself LARPing as the leader of the opposition, through
00:15:12.780some sort of insane fetish outgroup preference for the Tory party.
00:15:15.500she said she launches a furious tirade the express character as it has a furious tirade
00:15:23.020against and oh sorry that's the wrong thing that's about andy burnham she did also come out though
00:15:28.420sorry she did also come out and say about uh and chris philp came out and said that reform's plan
00:15:34.900was no good um so okay let's talk about that you've already said then that uh you'd want
00:15:41.220you'd be interested in a sort of a broader much broader idea and policy but let's talk about
00:15:47.440the English Channel though specifically still because that would still be part of it
00:15:51.820what's your thoughts and feelings on Nigel's Operation Fortress and the idea of physically
00:15:59.700stopping the boats you think is a bit of an ostentatious bit of a gimmicky thing
00:16:05.140no not not physically stopping them as such if by physically stopping them you mean
00:16:10.560bringing that but bringing them uh um into britain or just off the coast or wherever
00:16:16.500and slapping every single person aboard in handcuffs detaining them and then deporting
00:16:21.280them within 48 hours there's nothing wrong with that apart from anything else if you were to do
00:16:24.640that given that these people spend ordnance amounts of money on getting across the channel
00:16:28.480if they see footage of the people who decamped two weeks ago having calf slapped on them and
00:16:34.280being put on airplanes they're not going to be spending that money anymore so the votes would
00:16:37.340stop coming if you were to establish a credible deterrent um that's that's restored britain's
00:16:43.100policy is a credible deterrent i either as soon as they come here they're put in detention and
00:16:50.100sent back straight away and that's the deterrent to really break the back of the smuggling uh
00:16:57.680business that's right that's right um now if france were a low grade you know uh backwater
00:17:07.720like libya or even morocco uh frankly then you would we would be able as britain to exercise
00:17:14.280considerable diplomatic leverage over them and probably could say let's just say libya was where
00:17:19.360france was heaven forbid although to be fair it doesn't make much difference these days does it
00:17:25.280We could probably strong arm them and the Royal Navy could sort of force itself into Tripoli or wherever else and drop them off.
00:17:33.860It's just France is a is a serious power. It is also a member of the European Union.
00:17:38.720Remember, it's a common EU border. So it's not just France as an individual power that would be able to if it really was wanted to follow through on not allowing British vessels to come into French ports and drop these people off.
00:17:53.060it was really adamant and resistant to that it wouldn't be only be able to react as france it
00:17:58.300would be able to uh you know use its its own leverage within the eu to act as the eu in a
00:18:05.360way that penalizes i don't think that we have um the leverage to to do that and to sort of strong
00:18:11.220arm france and effectively violate its um territorial integrity in a way that we would
00:18:16.160have the power to do that with a country like libya i found it interesting that in the press
00:18:20.160conference barrage compared what he wanted to do in in britain vis-a-vis france to what australia
00:18:26.620did in australia the indonesia but again you can't really compare indonesia to france in that
00:18:32.500way um easier for the australia for the aussies to strong on the indonesians than it is for
00:18:37.260uh the britain to strong on the french and by extension uh the eu so i basically view that
00:18:42.940it's it's more it's not interdicting them in the channel that i that i regard as
00:18:47.220and just an ostentatious stunt it's more the the the pretension that we're we are realistically
00:18:53.400going to be able to upon doing that you know strong arm france i take the vessels immediately
00:18:59.820to france and drop those immigrants off there uh that to me is not um not realistic and let me play
00:19:05.760let me play devil's advocate then uh because reformer nigel and zia would argue they are
00:19:11.440arguing that it's not like i mean it would be a military operation but it wouldn't be um
00:19:19.040infringing on france's sovereignty in any way because they would characterize it as
00:19:23.760a rescue mission and under the the auspices of some sort of rescue mission that it's completely
00:19:30.560legal to enter french waters in order to rescue people rescue people and take them back to the
00:19:37.360the beach and if you call it that insist that it's that then you aren't breaking international
00:19:42.820law or French law or anything well I would what I would say is that I'm not a stickler for
00:19:50.480international law and nothing that I'm saying in in criticism of a reforms policy has anything to
00:19:55.480do with my desire to to uphold certain interpretations of international law so yes
00:19:59.960that is one plausible interpretation of international law the French are likely to see it
00:20:04.240see it another way this is one of the problems with international law is its systematic ambiguity
00:20:09.000it simply furnishes states with shared text from which to quote and counter quote against each
00:20:16.040other in many cases it's not always super clear and so yes international lawyers may disagree over
00:20:21.200whether reform are making the stronger case there or on whether the French government is making the
00:20:27.000stronger case vis-a-vis international law the point is is that insofar as the French government believes
00:20:31.280in its case, it's likely to act accordingly and create problems.
00:20:36.260So I'm more concerned here about what this does for bilateral relations
00:20:39.900between Britain and France and Britain, and by extension,
00:20:42.720between Britain and Europe than I am in international law.
00:20:47.000And it seems to me that given that this is a civilizational challenge
00:20:49.820that threatens the whole of Europe, including Britain, this century,
00:20:54.440we are going to need to cooperate, particularly as more and more
00:21:00.240base governments god willing uh rise to power on the continent if we were to see an afd government
00:21:05.580in germany or and we were to see a rassemblement national government in france and it looks very
00:21:10.820likely by the way very very likely looks likely that would be i i don't want to be it would be
00:21:17.380so counterproductive for the first thing of restore britain government or a base a based
00:21:22.240an otherwise based british government to to anger and create create problems for our relationship
00:21:29.040with France. Fair enough, fair enough. So, what is, tell us
00:21:33.100what Restore Britain's policy would be then to
00:21:36.760stop the small boats, if not do a rescue mission to just Royal Marines
00:21:41.160to tow the dinghy straight back to a French beach, if not that?
00:21:45.180What is it? Well, you can make use of the, you can definitely make operational use
00:21:49.160of the Royal Navy, and I should say that at the moment
00:21:51.040Henry Bolton, our national security spokesperson, is
00:21:57.000working on a on a on a national security strategy that does include an operational plan for dealing
00:22:04.600with it the problem in the channel itself rather than just dealing with illegal immigration once
00:22:08.440it's already sort of a festering sore within our society which is what our sort of mass deportations
00:22:13.080paper primarily primarily work to do in terms of establishing a hostile environment for illegal
00:22:17.720immigrants already in britain uh sometimes their whereabouts unknown um but again the the basic
00:22:24.920principle is once we basically need to make life more uncongenial for illegal immigrants in britain
00:22:31.960uh then across the board across the board including of course in the channel and that
00:22:37.800means detaining and deporting upon arrival within 48 hours then we make it then the french make it
00:22:43.020and if we did then there wouldn't be as much of a pull factor um so i i think that to focus on the
00:22:49.320problem this many steps in into it like once an immigrant gets to into britain sort of misses the
00:22:56.680bigger picture misses the importance of incentives in governing human conduct and i think that we
00:23:04.000should be establishing a much more restrictive landscape of incentives that that create a
00:23:10.020credible deterrent and prevent there being any need preclude any need for there to be any any
00:23:15.920any kind of operation fortress and to and to and to anger the french and to anger the and to anger
00:23:20.640the eu but also again because we are regardless as a common civilizational problem in europe
00:23:25.520that there is a case for something like operation fortress in the mediterranean
00:23:29.920uh um i'm not going to sort of compose the details of that on the hoof but i could see it
00:23:34.560i could envision a situation in which a base restored britain government were to cooperate
00:23:39.600with our european neighbors in the mediterranean in order to sort of prevent this problem at source
00:23:43.920And the major advantage there, of course, is that you have all of Europe together versus often very rogue North African states and Turkey and the like.
00:23:51.420So we're sort of we're kind of pooling our sovereignty and pooling our leverage rather than Europeans against each other, which I don't which I think is counterproductive this century.
00:23:59.160That's one that's one advantage of that. And of course, the second advantage is that you are then dealing with the problem at source rather than just zoning in on a particular aspect of the problem, however many steps later between Calais and Dover.
00:24:11.660okay so so to be clear just to be absolutely clear there's something in a wider policy in
00:24:20.640the mediterranean with uh working with all european partners um and but in the channel
00:24:27.040or for the actual channel migrants here one that they are all detained as a matter of course
00:24:34.420immediately and sent back within 48 hours so i suppose you would need some sort of there is
00:24:40.800already big facilities there at dover but you'd probably need to expand that make it make it make
00:24:46.420that bigger so that they just they never get into the general population and they're deported again
00:24:51.820within 48 hours as well as a whole slew of other policies which make it not good for them to be
00:24:59.560here so the incentive is taken away would that be all sorts of welfare and things i suppose
00:25:04.380welfare um we're talking about um uh sort of e-visas for any for any foreign workers working
00:25:13.420working in our economy because obviously illegal immigrants wouldn't have access to those we're
00:25:17.260talking about uh debanking we are talking about right to rent checks we're talking about right
00:25:22.600to work checks which we're talking about sort of this systematic targeting of hmos we're talking
00:25:27.920about um going after a known illegal immigrant hot spots like nail shops like car washes uh like
00:25:35.460kebab shops like vape shops you know we all know where this problem is concentrated um and yeah so
00:25:43.280so i mean this is all um this is all spelt out in tremendous detail in our uh paper of of last year
00:25:49.780mass deportations legitimacy legality logistics i know you have a copy bowen i know you've read it
00:25:54.560yep yep but yes i i'm you and rupert were the senior authors on it weren't you so that's
00:26:00.100correct you are head of policy right let's just be clear anyone who doesn't know yes effectively
00:26:05.980yes yes um and uh and but yes there is a there is a case of operation fortune the mediterranean
00:26:13.020or something like something like it uh but i don't think there's a i i think it's i think it
00:26:18.040is mere vanity on the part of reform to be uh pushing that sort of policy in the um the channel
00:26:24.060i don't think it's practical although if we're going to give credit where due i suppose i would
00:26:27.820say it's um it's a welcome departure from some from some of the from the kind of more cautious
00:26:34.380rhetoric that was coming out of reform uh before restore britain's existence i do think that that
00:26:38.780in many ways um they have sort of caught up in terms of rhetoric and in terms of stated ambitions
00:26:45.500uh like using language in their subtext as they do like the invasion of britain um
00:26:50.460they're sort of catching up to where we were i would say about a year ago okay yeah so something
00:26:56.700like operation fortress in the in the mediterranean there's there's a few very particular islands
00:27:01.740aren't they greek and italian islands i'm thinking maybe a string of of pill boxes
00:27:07.980quad-linked 50 cal machine guns knows that too much if i've gone too far i can't i can't endorse that
00:27:14.700uh you do put your finger on a very unfortunate problem in a way it would be easier if we were
00:27:26.740if we were just being invaded by armed flotillas of fighting men because then you can repel
00:27:32.280uh invasions in a more direct way uh but the problem is is that we are living through a
00:27:37.100a century not of armed conquest but of unarmed conquest that um that manipulates our sort of
00:27:43.700uh our psychopath that manipulates us psychologically uh so we're facing a
00:27:48.380psychological war not a military struggle and that it's more it's more smoke it's more smoke
00:27:54.200and mirrors and in many ways it's actually harder to repel an unarmed an unarmed invasion unless you
00:27:58.180have the requisite psychological fiber to see it through the case the case for repelling an armed
00:28:04.280invasion makes itself um but the paradox of our time in many ways is that even though we are being
00:28:10.900invaded we need to make we're constantly needing to make a strong case that we should do something
00:28:14.380about it it is a much much more insidious thing isn't it to have people coming being invaded by
00:28:22.880people that are unarmed claiming to be asylum seekers claiming to be refugees fleeing persecution
00:28:30.420and torture and stuff that's what they're claiming and when you know it's not it's not that or the
00:28:35.880vast majority of them is not that um yeah it's yeah it's cynical and uh yeah absolutely so just
00:28:45.400get back to them to mr farage and his sinking ship as characterized by the mirror um they're
00:28:51.860saying they've decided to go for the angle again they really they really hate farage and reform
00:28:57.820big time well and just all but they're saying that it's uh sort of it's a lame bid to distract
00:29:03.540from the woes and sleaze probes he was in the news yesterday the news cycle yesterday that
00:29:07.640richard tyce is also um not only is him in his business being referred to the met police but
00:29:17.380the parliamentary standards committee the same believe the same body that's investigating nigel
00:29:23.180or will once he wins his by-election against camping face that's also being triggered against
00:29:28.620Richard Tice as well, for the same sorts of things, similar things, a couple of payments of
00:29:34.420a quarter of a million pounds apiece through Fiona Cottrell, Post-George's mum, through Tice's
00:29:40.160business to reform, and it just seems that the same bit of, it's not sleaze, sleaze is like sex
00:29:45.940scandal, I don't know why they're calling financial things sleaze, but okay, they are now,
00:29:51.980um so i mean what do what do you think about i suppose the key question is do you think that
00:30:01.700all these financial scandals will actually take down a farage and mortally wound or terribly wound
00:30:10.300one way or another reform or do you think it's a storm in a teacup and it's all trumped up charges
00:30:14.600and it's a complete stitch-up job and we'll come to nothing what's your feeling yeah i i do think
00:30:20.440that um uh clearly the establishment i mean it's well documented and well known that we at restore
00:30:26.720brish and have our differences with reform both politically and i suppose interpersonally in many
00:30:32.040respects not all respects but in many respects there's lots of um personal um vendettas and
00:30:37.420personal difference agreements as well as political ones uh crisscrossing between our two camps um
00:30:42.600but it does seem to be very obvious that uh the establishment is effectively uh throwing what it
00:30:50.140can at reform in order to see uh in order to see what sticks it may it may be the case that uh both
00:30:57.340both um it may be the case that both can you hear me can you hear me okay but yeah yeah it may be
00:31:02.660the case that both um nigel farage and um richard tice have been clumsy and in sort of recording
00:31:10.540certain payments and and and the like particularly when you you when you were setting yourself up as
00:31:16.220an insurgent party it behoves you to be extra cautious so that they can't um you know easily
00:31:22.680find a pretext uh to take you down as for the effect that it will have it americans are not
00:31:29.500british people are not um identical to americans in terms of their temperament but i do find i do
00:31:35.520find it interesting that the more the establishment in the united states the deep state in the united
00:31:39.660States threw at Trump, the more in many ways it endears the American public to him because it was
00:31:45.980so brazen. It wasn't just one or two cases thrown at him here and there. There were sort of like
00:31:50.680hundreds of charges being lodged from all sides. It almost just seemed self-satirizing and absurd
00:31:56.440at one point. If the establishment overplay their hand here and go after every single
00:32:02.600you know irregularity they can find in the personal lives of the senior personnel of
00:32:08.520reform it's likely to have a similar effect I would wager on endearing the British people to
00:32:13.680the more at any rate and making the British people even more staunch in their opposition
00:32:17.860to the establishment. Interesting yeah I mean for me personally despite everything despite of
00:32:25.300being a Restore Britain member and partisan very very openly I'm prepared to give
00:35:20.680What do you know? What's all your thoughts and feelings about it? What are you prepared to tell us?
00:35:25.540Well, I mean, more or less everything that there is to be said about it is sort of public at this point.
00:35:34.080I mean, I suppose one of the criticisms we have had is that we did this publicly rather than privately.
00:35:39.800And some people have even pointed to the fact that we were very cross with Ben Habib when he tries to sort of throw down the gauntlets against us.
00:35:50.680in public. But as regards making these sorts of overtures privately or publicly, I don't believe
00:35:56.380personally in a one-size-fits-all solution. You should always do it privately or you should
00:36:01.880always do it publicly. And I think these sorts of things need to be judged prudently on a case-by-case
00:36:08.560basis. And I think one of the reasons why Ben Habib got people's backs up when he was doing
00:36:13.860it publicly in, I suppose it must have been February, pretty soon after Restore Britain
00:36:18.080converted from a movement into a party was that we didn't already have lots of mutual distrust
00:36:24.520and bad blood with Ben Habib and so it shouldn't have been particularly complicated for him to
00:36:30.520just get it get in touch privately and the fact that he did it publicly suggests all of a sudden
00:36:37.000called into question the extent to which we did have that much public that much sort of mutual
00:36:41.100trust and in one another and I think I suppose that is what we disliked about it like for instance
00:36:46.500you and I though are friends and are known to be friendly towards one another both publicly and
00:36:51.960interpersonally this is known and so if you said something on I don't know I would probably be
00:36:58.100more likely to get in touch with you privately if I had a problem with you than I would publicly
00:37:01.900but it's widely known that Farage and Rupert don't have that and it would weaken our negotiating
00:37:09.060hand if we were not making these overtures in public because part of the reason we're making
00:37:13.500them in public is because we're trying to say to the reform um uh to the reform supporters
00:37:20.820themselves that reform in its current condition doesn't believe sufficiently in the same things
00:37:27.060that you believe which is why we led with the principles rather than the overture itself
00:37:31.500uh and so i think it was a very principled uh maneuver uh as well as one in which of course
00:37:36.720we wanted our hands to be as strong as possible and you know the reform want their hand to be as
00:37:41.780strong as possible so i don't think we should be sort of too sort of sentimental and high-minded
00:37:45.780about these things we've been sentimental enough in putting the principles first the five principles
00:37:49.720pretty non-negotiable as far as we're concerned that not not even asking for that much asking for
00:37:55.020the bare minimum particularly as it relates to reversing mass migration and demographic security
00:37:59.020i mean what is the point in the right involving itself in politics at all if all we're going to
00:38:04.340do is twiddle our thumbs for the next few decades as and while we're overrun demographically beyond
00:38:10.240saving i think it's deeply dishonorable and it dishonors our ancestors and endangers our descendants
00:38:15.200if in the time we have left demographically all we try to do is improve the terms of our
00:38:20.400own pre-emptive surrender which is effectively what reform is in favor of doing in its current
00:38:24.400condition whereas we at restore britain are on record saying that we want um to ensure demographic
00:38:30.400security for the native peoples of the british isles that isn't even a big ask in my view that
00:38:34.720That is the bare minimum. That is sort of the pre-political, that sort of the pre-political state of affairs around which everything else should revolt.
00:38:44.760It shouldn't be regarded as a politicised manoeuvre at all.
00:38:48.420So that would be my answer on the public-private criticism that we've got.
00:38:52.080But I don't know if you have any questions about other aspects of the move that we made on Sunday.
00:38:57.560Yeah, no, I mean, well, I'll just, before we go on, I'd just like to completely build on exactly what you said there.
00:43:14.760Imagine if you did a national referendum
00:43:16.780on anything, and you won it 97% to three. Amazing. Alright, it's just ticked up to 98%. Very close
00:43:27.340to 1,100 votes on that one. You're my people. Alright, let's have a look on this day in
00:43:35.720history, shall we? What have we got here, down through the centuries, what happened
00:43:40.440note on the 4th of August. In 1555, on this day, the first printing of the Zohar in Spain
00:43:47.120popularises the Jewish study of Kabbalah. Does it? Don't care. On this day in 1821,
00:43:54.260the Russian Antarctic expedition led by Fabian Gottlieb von Bellingshausen, say that 10 times
00:44:01.440fast, returns to Kronstadt after being the first to circumnavigate Antarctica. Harry.
00:44:10.440Do you think I've got long form content to talk about the history of man's exploration of Antarctica?
00:44:17.440On my history things show behind the paywall on lotusseaters.com do consider signing up for as little as £5 a month bronze year membership
00:44:23.440Oh yeah it's there, oh yeah, and on my own channel actually, that one
00:44:28.440My own history channel, History Bro, also independently more content about Antarctica
00:44:35.440Scott, Scott of Antarctica and Shackleton
00:44:39.440And it's interesting to note, isn't it
00:44:44.500That it's a fifth of the way through the 19th century
00:44:50.940Before men really sailed up to and around Antarctica
00:44:54.740If you believe that narrative of history