The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - FREEMIUM： Brokenomics

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Brokernomics. Now in this episode it's going to be a bit of a dark and

00:00:05.520 grim subject matter. I'm afraid we're going to take a look at the grooming gangs and I thought

00:00:09.360 well who do I know about that? Raja Mir. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah no thank you

00:00:15.240 thank you very much for coming on. So you've made a bit of a name you see yourself as a

00:00:18.720 as a campaigner primarily on this issue of what's been happening to the right working class

00:00:25.180 and grooming gang victims. So I've got to start with this you know you're a Muslim lad of

00:00:32.380 Bangladeshi origins and why does the plight of the right working class and the children

00:00:39.180 bother you when I suppose we come back to this point it clearly doesn't bother the Labour Party

00:00:45.440 who are supposed to be the representatives of the right working class? It's a fair it's a fair

00:00:52.000 question. I am I mean where do I start? I am a trained anti-racist and what is taking place here

00:01:00.020 is textbook racism. So if I believe in anti-racist work and I spent 20 years advocating anti-racist

00:01:09.060 strategies built strengthening communities then surely I have a responsibility to look at this

00:01:14.320 as a clear example of racism. These are racially motivated crimes and I had to speak out

00:01:21.520 first and foremost. Secondly the children. I spent 20 years safeguarding children and I have a career

00:01:27.620 for at least that amount of time as well in protecting communities from extremism. I helped shape a lot

00:01:35.860 of the government's thinking on how to fight against Al-Qaeda is what you know essentially. So I look at

00:01:42.980 this and all of those issues overlap but in the end this is my home. These are my communities.

00:01:50.340 These children could have been my children and no one was helping them. No one was speaking out on behalf

00:01:56.440 of them and those who were didn't have the skill set to navigate the traps that were set for them

00:02:03.060 by the establishment which then made it easy for people to be demonized. And I can play that game

00:02:10.700 for a whole host of reasons. And one I'm obviously brown-faced Muslim like you said but that's not

00:02:15.800 stopped these idiots from calling me far-right and racist. But we now all know don't we Dan? What

00:02:22.220 does that term even mean? Yes we're all far right now. Yeah so you know you can... Does it at least give you a bit of cover?

00:02:29.420 Because I mean there have there have been people who have spoken out about this sort of stuff and they

00:02:34.760 tend to get shut down by the state very fast. No it makes it worse for me. It makes it worse for me because

00:02:39.020 the flip side is I have got to navigate the communities where I come from and being demonized as far-right and racist.

00:02:48.380 This is a northern town. It's a northern working-class town. A small Bangladeshi community. My mother died

00:02:57.580 nearly 18 months ago now and towards the back end of her life she was struggling with all of this

00:03:03.260 what was going on because she's got a network of friends extended family who who wanted to know why

00:03:09.180 her son was wanting to help white people and the pressures that came with that and you know like

00:03:15.500 why can't you stay stay quiet? It's got nothing to do with us. It's not our kids it's happening to.

00:03:22.460 Yeah well that that I mean that is something that concerns me the...

00:03:27.660 So two things like this. I mean first Carl always makes the point um that I think for most of us

00:03:34.300 if we rang up 12 friends and said look I've got this you know young girl um tied up upstairs do you

00:03:41.500 want to come around and help rape her. I don't know how many people there are that would actually

00:03:45.740 have 12 friends who would respond to that. Well I'd respond to that. I'd come and smile.

00:03:50.460 I don't know. I think if I rang 12 of my friends you know within the first phone call um they would

00:03:58.060 have reported me to the police. Yes. But for some reason in the Muslim community uh it seems like they

00:04:03.100 can just ring up 12 of their friends and not only do they not get reported but they all sort of go along

00:04:09.180 with it. So it it feels like the Muslim community has failed the test of friendship and as you've just

00:04:16.780 talked about there is that sort of omerta of silence that that's sort of in there as well and you know

00:04:23.260 you you can understand why people immediately sort of leap to well deportations are the only thing that

00:04:28.860 are gonna they're gonna solve this um I mean what what's your thoughts on this? Why is this community so

00:04:35.420 comfortable with these with these crimes? It's a question one I agree they are I think that's the

00:04:43.020 first thing you've we've got we've got to uh start with I agree they are and I think they are comfortable

00:04:49.100 with these crimes because these crimes have been going on for such a long time in plain sight

00:04:56.460 without any repercussions so to answer your question as to why they're comfortable they're

00:05:01.100 comfortable because those who are responsible can get away with it the second reason why they're

00:05:06.460 comfortable is because those who are involved in trying to safeguard them or attempting to safeguard

00:05:11.820 them are also comfortable with these children being used the way they are and it's only until very

00:05:19.100 recently that we agree that it was always absurd to say that it was a lifestyle choice of an 11 year old

00:05:26.620 or a 12 year old to be gang raped yeah yeah in some cases even younger than that yeah even some

00:05:31.660 in some cases indeed even younger than that so it was normalized as though acceptable just one of those

00:05:38.300 things that go on in society and and after all these are girls that were damaged and I'm not of that

00:05:47.100 opinion I'm sharing the the perception these are damaged children who brought it on themselves they're in

00:05:52.620 care homes or the parents don't look after them so if no one's caring for them who cares but that was

00:05:57.500 certainly the the view of the police yes that was the view of the police so you've got the view of the

00:06:02.300 community you've got the view of those who are meant to safeguard them and you've got the view of

00:06:06.540 those who are meant to protect them in terms of the police and then you have the view of the politicians

00:06:11.100 in the wider context who are meant to you know speak out on behalf and and address some of these issues

00:06:17.740 and they looked at the situation and they thought they can benefit from it so that's why it was

00:06:23.260 normalized there was not just one failing in one community there's at least four different areas

00:06:28.460 where those failings took place and all all are responsible and all are complicit so we must drill

00:06:34.540 down into each of those but before we get into that let's talk briefly about the actual scale of the

00:06:39.820 the problem how big actually is this problem when i was first told when i was first told about this

00:06:48.300 probably at the time of the rochdale grooming gang i was i'd just done a piece of work in

00:06:54.540 manchester and rochdale around some other counter-terrorism strategy and the edl were coming

00:06:58.620 up to protest in rochdale around 2012 i reckon it was 2011 2012 i'll be honest with you now i didn't

00:07:05.500 believe it i didn't believe that in 21st century united kingdom children were being groomed gang raped

00:07:15.180 and trafficked across the country in the way that was being uh presented as what had taken place

00:07:24.460 and i've gone away and looked at it looked at it looked at it i've looked at the evidence

00:07:28.300 it's and the the kemi badenoch stood up in parliament and and i'll paraphrase her but she

00:07:38.540 talked about the systemic grooming and gang rape of children across the nation

00:07:44.140 and she addressed keir starmer in the lead up to the vote what they rejected which is a vote for a

00:07:48.780 national inquiry into what had taken place so i would say to you this is systemic across the entire country

00:07:55.980 this is systemic particularly in communities where there is a significant pakistanian bangladeshi

00:08:00.620 muslim uh community living you know close with white working class communities and i'd say in every

00:08:07.180 one of those towns and cities you will find this problem these networks of men that i've then gone

00:08:13.260 and looked at didn't operate in silos in council areas in council areas they ran cross county uh like

00:08:21.420 uh trafficking of children in a similar way to how heroin is is transported and in many instances

00:08:30.540 many of these men were in that were involved are involved are also the exact men who are involved

00:08:35.900 in the heroin trade right you know and children are so why don't why not overlap yeah and children you

00:08:42.380 can you know you can sell heroin once then you can as as we found out from the harrowing cases

00:08:48.620 you can sell children 40 50 times a night and sometimes to four or five men at once yes yeah

00:08:55.180 i mean you mentioned the edl i seem to remember that the bmp were the other ones yeah yeah spoke

00:08:59.420 about this and i believe um was it nick griffin nick griffin even spoke about this well i understand

00:09:04.140 he actually went to jail for things that we now know to be true nick griffin yeah i i so i i look at

00:09:10.300 this and i and i've been on my own journey with this as well and i i say okay there's framing the

00:09:17.420 does it really exist which is one the reasons why and the solutions i i look at this and also who's

00:09:23.820 responsible and and how i've been trying to navigate this is try and make sure that we accept that there

00:09:33.420 are failings within the communities where i come from but the communities where i come from there are

00:09:38.780 also people like me who want this dealt with and we have been ostracized and sidelined by the very

00:09:45.260 authorities that are involved in having failed these children and look the other way this isn't just a

00:09:52.780 you can look at it in the lens of a racial lens or a religious lens fine i accept there's arguments for

00:09:59.980 that i i take it further i say there's also very serious failings in our institutions who are meant to

00:10:07.260 protect these children and also in our political class what took place is that they benefited from

00:10:13.900 rearrangement i take it to a darker place where i say and it's based on my experiences and my

00:10:20.140 interactions and my understanding of this issue i've given the last six years of my life to

00:10:26.300 essentially to fighting for this before that i've got 20 years of working at a senior enough level to

00:10:32.860 understand how all of this plays out and i'm very clear on this children white working class children

00:10:40.460 were exchanged for votes yes yes i think i think that is exactly what happened and you made a number

00:10:46.940 of points that i want to circle back on but essentially you're saying that the problem is so

00:10:50.860 large we don't know how large it is i if you were to ask me i would bet my last penny that you

00:10:57.740 were we are talking at least a hundred thousand children a hundred thousand children at least

00:11:02.700 minimum at least okay one of the other things you mentioned there was um and and i do i do

00:11:09.900 definitely want to build up to the failings of um you know the police and local authorities and

00:11:14.540 labour party and so on but one of the things you mentioned there was ostracism within the community

00:11:19.260 so i mean what what's it like coming from this community and speaking out about it i mean is it

00:11:24.380 accepted that you know something has to be done or or do you get shut up don't talk about it all that

00:11:31.020 kind of stuff there was a police officer at my house yesterday and that police officer had come

00:11:35.980 around because i had been repeatedly reporting clear crimes by a network of islamists who have been

00:11:45.180 inciting my murder for the last four years at least the police have refused to arrest a single one of

00:11:51.980 these because of their political correctness yeah connections but as recently as yesterday there was

00:11:57.420 a police officer in my house and what these guys have been doing non-stop is they use their

00:12:03.740 interpretations of quranic scripture their viewpoints and sharia law to try and essentially put a fatwa

00:12:13.020 on me you know a religious doctrine to to take me out and what they're arguing around or what the the case

00:12:18.700 they're presenting is that i am a gay christian convert so for them being gay from my background

00:12:26.380 means you can you can kill him and being a christian convert means you can not just kill him

00:12:30.700 but it's pretty high up there yeah and you know this this stuff is is regularly published and shared

00:12:38.060 online with my photograph my publishing my home address everything and these men are protected the most recent

00:12:47.340 case was shared on a whatsapp group that they have these men have and it translated the word is

00:12:53.980 bizarre in it now bizarre translated is community judgment according to sharia law and that's that's

00:13:02.700 what the word means and they'd generated an ai video of me uh involved in some uh homosexual act

00:13:10.380 hmm and happily distributed to that's not good yeah you know with the view of it with a view of

00:13:17.980 trying to incite my murder yes there's no ambiguity you know so when you ask me that is what i'm dealing with

00:13:24.300 i mean you you say their interpretations but i mean have they not got a point because a lot of people

00:13:28.460 will say well you know the prophet muhammad took a nine-year-old bride and you know yeah

00:13:34.060 therefore you could say that you know maybe they're not completely out of line on this stuff and

00:13:37.580 and and to be fair that he did also um take a dim view of people who committed apostasy and all that

00:13:44.220 sort of thing so i mean it's it's a fairly lively um career that the chap had and i and i look at that

00:13:50.620 and i'm not a religious expert at all all i can share with you is that the islam i was raised in

00:13:57.180 the mosque that i went to and a generation of people like me from you know i i think i think islam and the

00:14:03.420 way in which islam is experienced in the united kingdom now is very different how it was 30 years

00:14:10.060 ago or 40 years ago yes no it when that one i mean even islam in egypt in in the 1950s is very very

00:14:17.340 different well iran all of them yeah um islam appears to have been moving significantly more

00:14:24.300 radical over the course of the latter half of the last century agreed and and i struggle with that

00:14:28.780 i struggled and i i always saw it as a spiritual thing the people i went to the mosque with

00:14:34.220 in in in the main were nice people who did nice things in the community and it was a spiritual thing

00:14:40.380 it's no different than friends of mine going to church on a sunday now that's that's the islam i i

00:14:46.620 grew up with it wasn't this political uh experience that it is now it wasn't this angry uh

00:14:53.660 phenomenon that it is now and it definitely definitely wasn't one were practicing it

00:15:02.220 put you at odds with the nation that should be your home which i think is clearly what it is

00:15:07.420 like we're there it does feel like islam is incompatible with this country and when i came

00:15:13.820 down and i wanted to speak with you and i watch your stuff and not just you and that and i see that

00:15:19.260 and i see why people think that and even more so i think is that means i have a responsibility and

00:15:26.220 people like me from the communities i come from have a responsibility to fight within my own community

00:15:33.740 and also present to people outside that all of us are not like that and we want you know we've

00:15:42.140 got to find a way of living together because as a brown-faced muslim man i look at it this way

00:15:46.780 then if i if we don't find a way of living together then what happens next hmm well presumably the same

00:15:54.780 thing happens as has happened in every other country where this has happened and i don't want

00:15:57.660 that quite nasty i don't want that yes i've got a daughter i wanted to grow up in a you know in a

00:16:02.460 in a nation that she's valued and she values because i mean one of the increasing talking points is about

00:16:11.020 deportations for example and you know that that sounds fine in principle but you then have to

00:16:17.100 start thinking well how am i going to do that if we are going to do it now i think you probably

00:16:22.860 wouldn't get an awful lot of pushback if it was okay all the um dual nationals or foreign nationals

00:16:28.940 who committed crime you know especially the grooming going kind so they all get deported

00:16:34.220 but but then when you start hearing okay the community you know covers up for these men and accepts

00:16:39.180 it you will then start to think well hang on a minute maybe maybe it needs to go a bit further than

00:16:43.100 that um so i mean how do you if if we are going to have some sort of recompense on any of this

00:16:52.780 short of deporting everybody who hasn't got native born british grandparents how do you sort the wheat

00:17:00.220 from the chaff how do you delineate between those who are either complicit or culturally accepting of it

00:17:09.180 neither of which is acceptable from those who are um those who are not like that it's a fair point

00:17:17.100 first of all we agree i think i you know i think you're of that opinion i agree but dual nationals who

00:17:22.700 commit any crime that are of a of a certain tier yes it should be you know what are they doing here

00:17:27.740 or foreign nationals what are they doing here why waste our time with them i mean it's not an extreme

00:17:33.100 viewpoint once it was considered an extreme viewpoint but increasingly now i don't think that's an extreme

00:17:38.060 viewpoint that if you're a foreign national or a dual national and you commit a crime you know of

00:17:43.580 a sufficiency of perhaps where you get you know put in prison or whatever you then then you should be

00:17:48.460 automatically deported i don't think that is any more an extreme viewpoint what you've got to then

00:17:54.700 understand and it's a conversation i have with people and i look at the likes of uh the reform mp

00:18:01.420 rupert uh sorry i forget his name rupert low yeah any any any focuses in on this yes and then i look

00:18:07.420 on the community where i come from and the significant amount of people who have attitudes

00:18:14.780 that facilitate the environment where those crimes take place yes that's the bit that i'm worried about

00:18:20.060 the uk born the parents are uk born the grandparents are uk born and the pattern i've seen that worries me

00:18:28.860 dan is that the more longer they've spent here in terms of the family lineage the the children and

00:18:36.940 the grandchildren are actually more at odds with the you know and unwilling to embrace than the

00:18:41.580 grandparents were does that make the less integrated and where is that coming from it's political islam

00:18:47.260 i look at it is that coming from the mosques no it's not it's not even from the mosques this has moved

00:18:51.740 on from the mosques this this is now a global news channel of how they perceive their identity they'll

00:18:59.100 turn on the internet they'll turn on the phone they'll see someone in gaza they'll see someone

00:19:02.940 you know some radical cleric in egypt and that's where that's where it's coming from and we're not

00:19:08.860 being we're not able to counter it here the mosques i go to the mosques i go to will fight tooth and nail

00:19:15.900 to say you you are here you abide by the rules you abide by the laws and you and you did the best you can

00:19:21.420 this isn't coming from the mosque in the united kingdom this is coming from this global umma that

00:19:27.020 these guys have have bought into and girls and and and they hate me for it they hate me for speaking

00:19:33.260 out against them like okay so if you went to saudi arabia how would you be treated if you went to

00:19:39.100 afghanistan how would you be treated you're turning your back on the very country that's given you a home

00:19:45.180 and you're developing a a mindset where the place you live is your enemy yes well of course there are

00:19:53.500 no churches in saudi arabia um and so so so so i i i wonder about this because um i mean should there

00:20:01.740 be mosques in the united kingdom because and clearly there are some very bad ones you know or it's either

00:20:09.420 that or they have extreme bad accident to keep churning out extremists so you tell me there are

00:20:14.700 some that are pushing back against it i i've never been to one so i've i've never been to them i mean

00:20:21.340 and i'm i'm not the best muslim i'll be you know let's be clean i try my best but i'm not the best

00:20:25.580 muslim and and and there are people in my own community who would argue that i'm not a muslim so

00:20:30.060 let's let's get that out there first for those who who watch this but my experience of the mosques

00:20:35.420 is that none of the mosques i've ever been to encourage any of this that we we oppose increasingly

00:20:45.340 i have seen i've witnessed firsthand you know in terms of the videos and stuff that are sent to me

00:20:50.220 some islamic scholars who give sermons that i find uncomfortable

00:20:56.940 now a few years ago i remember remember the government's prevent strategy that's just been ripped

00:21:02.620 apart i think recently uh with events in southport and i remember being sat in meetings helping design

00:21:08.860 that strategy we we recognized and accepted that there was a doctrine coming up an islamic strand

00:21:13.900 coming into the united kingdom actually from saudi arabia actually from saudi arabia but no one was

00:21:19.500 willing to really challenge it because of our links with with the saudis and i've heard links with the

00:21:24.620 saudi wahhabism yeah yeah the wahhabis yeah right and and it it kind of superimposed and went over the

00:21:33.660 the softer sort of cultural islam you know that many of us had experienced before and it was a more

00:21:38.620 fundamental strand now i haven't got the answers for that now if you get to a point where we say okay

00:21:45.020 every mosque should be shut down surely i and all those like me have a responsibility to make sure that we

00:21:53.740 do whatever is necessary before that becomes yes yeah and what is that what you know i i look at

00:22:00.540 and what what is that and and i haven't got the answers for you what i do know is what we're doing

00:22:07.020 isn't working well i mean i certainly agree that what you're doing is very important and clearly there

00:22:11.740 must be more of that sort of thing i'd like to see sort of more from your community sort of come forward

00:22:15.740 agree agree uh because all the time that isn't the case i mean my my mind doesn't automatically go to

00:22:23.500 mass deportations um you know widespread and complete

00:22:30.460 but if there is no other solution to protect children well i'll protect the children i'm with you

00:22:38.460 yeah yeah yeah i'm i'm with you and and and i and i look at the protecting of the children

00:22:43.900 and if we can't agree on that something as fundamental as that we're not going to agree on

00:22:49.260 anything are we so so let me just dive into this because this is interesting the the the point about

00:22:54.540 um and certainly wahhabism is is very extreme emerging from saudi arabia i i do i have seen comments

00:23:01.100 from the saudi government that basically says to the uk government you need to deal with

00:23:06.940 these people with an iron fist that's what we do and they don't mess around with their

00:23:10.540 internal centers yeah and so they've been telling our government you need to come down on these people

00:23:15.660 brutally and of course our government doesn't do anything of the sort but but how does it

00:23:20.940 practically if you're a 17 year old bangladeshi lad are you going to be watching because and and and i

00:23:27.580 get with with the social media today it tends to be the most strident voices that get a

00:23:33.420 a disproportional amount of attention so are you uh i 17 year old bangladeshi lads or or whatever

00:23:40.380 or pakistanians are they uh watching videos coming out of saudi arabia i mean do they do they speak

00:23:47.020 arabic for a start a lot of these are english aren't they a lot of these are english a lot of these are

00:23:49.900 english english speaking but they're they're watching clerics from saudi arabia or or the

00:23:55.340 interpretation of people of the clerics from saudi arabia or from afghanistan or you know well they're

00:24:00.940 sharing they watch this yeah yeah and it's increasingly become one where i look at this

00:24:07.900 from a you know someone who's two generations away perhaps but still live in that community

00:24:11.740 where uh the culture of the homeland here the culture is increasingly held in in content

00:24:20.300 and looked down on as inferior it's classic racism

00:24:25.260 now they they frame it through religion but it's still the same it's classic racism

00:24:28.700 you are less than them you know your culture is less than your girls are uh promiscuous

00:24:34.620 they're this they're that they're trash well that came out very strongly in the court trance yeah

00:24:39.020 yeah and then they did and then what happens to them they deserve it yes and how how do we stop

00:24:45.660 that first we've got to accept they were racially motivated crimes for the last six years i've been

00:24:50.540 shouting and screaming about this and we've got nowhere with it yet because the government doesn't even

00:24:54.540 accept these are so on that narrow point there was no institutional acceptance whatsoever that it was

00:25:00.460 group-based and it was racist what they're struggling with it right they won't even last week

00:25:06.700 in my own council chamber and i went to the meeting an elderly conservative counselor camburn stood up

00:25:13.740 and remember all them had wrote to jess phillips and jess phillips wrote back saying no you can't have

00:25:18.620 a public inquiry but you can have a local one and the local one means you can mark your own

00:25:22.540 home like you did last time yeah yeah yeah and and she stood up and she said well we should go back

00:25:27.820 to the government she's probably in her 80s mate yeah she stood up bravely stood up and read a piece

00:25:33.260 of paper that she'd prepared and she used the term pakistani heritage breakdowns the pakistani leader

00:25:39.180 the council stood up outraged the white deputy mayor told her to take those words back straight away

00:25:45.980 and she said which words in other words he wanted to take taken back pakistani we can't even speak

00:25:52.460 about him that's in a council chamber last week in a town that's at the epicenter of the grooming

00:25:58.460 gangs what right well actually before we go on to labor there's a liberal there's a liberal you know

00:26:04.460 belief undercurrent it's not political undercurrent per se there's a liberal you know because i mean we

00:26:10.380 we come back more to labor but i understand for them somebody like jess phillips she's got a majority

00:26:14.460 of less than 700 over essentially the islamic candidate yeah um the sectarian is an islamist

00:26:22.220 candidate let's be clear they're islamist candidates yeah yes there's five islamist mps in in parliament

00:26:27.020 there are yes yes so i i kind of understand why labor got themselves into a trap and we do definitely

00:26:32.140 want to come back to that but bear in mind we have had since what 14 years of of tory leadership

00:26:37.980 why did you get no traction with the tories because they are not politically beholden to islam

00:26:45.740 the way that no the labor party the constituencies aren't and i look at it and i look at it and look

00:26:51.340 at it i saw the report that came out the home office was it a hundred thousand of us had to sign a

00:26:56.380 petition to force them to release this report and even then the report they said no and we went through

00:27:02.300 you know a whole host of hurdles and the report was a whitewash uh i think it's very very clear

00:27:08.540 that the conservatives were not even though you said 14 years and i agree with you and i'm not

00:27:12.220 conservative i don't think they're in control of the civil service right i think it's as simple as

00:27:17.980 that i think there's a war between the ministers and and the senior civil servants yes this is a point

00:27:24.140 that conor makes that there is a especially in the home office a large cadre of um basically islamic

00:27:31.100 staff agreed agreed who was sort of blocking this stuff so they kind of got themselves in as a sort

00:27:37.020 of fourth column agreed right whoever mentioned that to you i agree with him so i mean okay maybe

00:27:45.900 so we could we could maybe excuse the we're not excuse but we can condemn the tories for being weak

00:27:51.180 because they are weak on she should have bravo mentioned it in my yeah yeah liz trust now speaks

00:27:57.260 out but she spoke out very little at the time well she wasn't there for very long so no no i mean even

00:28:02.780 when she was you know oh i see what you mean yeah not enough of them spoke out and and this is why i i

00:28:09.340 get angry at it because because you all got played because in the lead up to the elections and the

00:28:15.020 leadership contest they all talked about i'm going to deal with grooming gangs i'm going to deal with

00:28:19.100 grooming gangs you know sajid uh javid uh said it you know they all they all spoke about it so they

00:28:24.700 all know it's an issue you know they're not dealing with it isn't as a consequence of ignorance is it

00:28:31.260 done they knew they knew it was an issue they knew as enough of an issue for them to make reference to

00:28:37.180 it when they were trying to get themselves votes for whatever positions they were looking to to secure

00:28:41.740 but as soon as they secured those positions they were unable or unwilling or just found it too

00:28:47.420 difficult i don't know you'll have to ask them why yeah i mean i suppose possibly it could be that

00:28:54.780 if you are going to talk about a problem at some point you're going to have to talk about a solution

00:28:59.660 and they can't imagine one or at least they're not they can't imagine one which they're willing to

00:29:05.020 to actually sort of go ahead and do because it comes back to my earlier point about you know

00:29:09.820 sorting because unless you basically say i'm going to deport everybody of a certain heritage

00:29:16.860 well that would probably solve it but that is so far beyond the the imagination of the sort

00:29:22.140 of liberal consensus that we operate in today you're going to need some sort of delineation that comes in

00:29:27.340 there which is why i asked about that earlier and there are steps yeah and and i and i would say in

00:29:32.940 terms of the first steps we we have to recognize that there is a racist problem in the bangladeshi

00:29:41.900 pakistani muslim however whatever term you want to identify that subsect of our society yes there is

00:29:48.860 a racist problem there who look upon the majority white community with contempt clearly right through

00:29:55.900 through the lens of racism in classic racism as perhaps in the 50s or 40s in the in the other way

00:30:01.420 around you know how the particular you know the stories of the african caribbeans and how they are

00:30:05.740 treated and look look how society has moved on now where you would i don't think many there would be very

00:30:13.900 few people who would look upon the african caribbean community the traditional sort of windbrush community

00:30:18.940 from barbados and hold their mood contempt they've integrated they've you know they've overcome whatever

00:30:23.580 adversities they've had and we've come come to live with each other but we went on a journey with the

00:30:28.300 host community to do that which government is willing brave enough to look in a camera and say there is a

00:30:35.260 problem in our minority communities towards the way in which they look upon the wider white community

00:30:41.660 that problem is endemically racist and we have a duty to put in place programs to address that racism

00:30:50.140 yes i mean to put two things i mean one when you say minority communities i mean quite often they're

00:30:55.180 the majority in a lot of the towns where this is where this is a big problem and secondly on the

00:31:00.140 contempt um i've got some sympathy for that line of thought because people who won't defend themselves

00:31:06.460 actually are contemptuous i i campaigned and campaigned and campaigned for

00:31:11.420 so long in my hometown on this issue and to politically mobilize because that's what we

00:31:17.580 did with the white working class we politically mobilized them to remove the white political

00:31:22.460 leaders who'd betrayed them it was hard work for six years but so many of them you know and and

00:31:28.860 even then we did it with a small number of i reckon about 200 people we changed the entire landscape

00:31:35.580 political landscape of the town with 200 people mainly elderly and white the younger ones won't

00:31:42.140 get involved yes the middle-aged ones look around and think the jobs are at risk as i can't you know

00:31:48.460 if they if they say anything and so how much of this is just fear because i mean no no it's not just

00:31:55.740 fear it they've been disempowered they're disillusioned it must be a factor because

00:32:02.140 you've already talked about how you've had death threats oh absolutely yes you know toby robinson is

00:32:06.780 in and out of jail for for doing things that are actually fairly innocuous that no one else would go

00:32:10.700 to jail for they've been trying to put me in jail for five years done yeah five years and and just

00:32:14.860 after the south uh port massacre um you know people who spoke out of it and actually said things that were

00:32:21.500 you know perhaps not polished but but not not worth going to prison not worth going to prison come

00:32:27.420 on loads of them have gone to jail well they were made it's political it's political persecution you've

00:32:32.300 been made an example of so the rest of the country looks at those people and thinks i better not say

00:32:38.140 anything i better not do anything in case that happens to me yes that was on purpose that was a

00:32:43.020 political strategy what took place after southport and the way in which the fast track uh

00:32:49.500 prosecutions persecutions took place so fear must have a lot to do with this because you know if

00:32:55.500 if you're if you're working um and if you want to pay the mortgage you can't speak out about this

00:33:02.860 even if you're in the fortunate position where you can speak out about it you have to be a bit

00:33:06.940 careful because one you might get arrested by your own government and two you might get beaten up or

00:33:11.900 murdered so fear is it feels to me like that is a big factor and that is a function of power

00:33:19.260 um agreed if if if we had a diff if we had a government that was operating on a different

00:33:25.980 software you know that that top-down aspect wouldn't exist agreed i'm not going to disagree

00:33:33.100 on that for you absolutely and they may it's a strategy and people are scared they're scared to speak

00:33:39.260 out and they look towards their own immediate family unit and think okay as long as we're okay

00:33:44.700 that i i won't say anything i think that's a that's a that's a hundred percent an issue and then what

00:33:51.740 we've also got is those who've managed to speak out or the government has you know facilitated those

00:33:59.100 space they they've been demonized as extremists and then if you do speak out well actually you're not

00:34:07.260 just scared you'll be branded as you know you'll be branded so as as well as people trying to kill

00:34:13.660 you and you mentioned where they tried to put you in jail absolutely what i mean once or twice i mean

00:34:18.700 what's going on here the place where i come from the leader of the council is the current leader of the

00:34:27.980 council is a woman called arud shah all of this is factual there's nothing anyone will get into any

00:34:32.620 trouble over arud shah hangs off the arm of a man called irish emi irish jimmy is the convicted

00:34:40.380 heroin dealing getaway driver of the cop killer dale cregan so that name you get it sounds like

00:34:46.300 dale cregan dale cregan no no the other irish jimmy irish jimmy is his name he's his nickname

00:34:52.060 irish jimmy imi oh imtiaz irish jimmy and muhammad imran ali is his prop in his real name right okay

00:34:59.100 but is the he was the getaway driver yes of the cop killer dale cregan dale cregan killed two

00:35:05.660 police officers one of them was from my town yes the leader of the council hangs off his arm and

00:35:12.460 he goes to council meetings with her he campaigns for the labour party so straight away i mean that's

00:35:18.540 a bad look in straight away you've got organized crime and the politicians and that clear connection

00:35:25.660 there despite that despite that bad look she is andy burnham who's the greater manchester mayor

00:35:34.380 she's his equalities lead and also she's the chair of the national constitutional committee of the labour

00:35:41.580 party so what i'm saying to you is these people are powerful yeah they're powerful not just with their

00:35:48.620 underworld links but they're also powerful with the political power that they so i'm hearing all of

00:35:53.500 this for the first time um so another failing on the multitude of failings is is of course the media

00:36:00.780 who i mean in a normal functioning society a connection like that would be they're not

00:36:05.180 political death wish they're not interested and if they are they brush it you know and what took place

00:36:12.140 with that is that i began to speak out against not just the grooming gangs but in the way in which the

00:36:18.460 postal vote was used postal vote harvesting it's a real thing uh very easy now because of what tony

00:36:25.820 blair did any anyone can have a postal vote essentially what happens is in the community

00:36:29.500 cycle from people get a postal vote if you've not got a postal vote someone will knock on your door

00:36:34.060 and get you to fill in a form so you do get a postal vote you sign your postal vote you sign your

00:36:38.620 family's postal vote you don't put the x anywhere and you hand over the envelopes

00:36:42.300 the fraud is as simple is as simple as that yes and these are gangsters clearly who who organized

00:36:50.540 that i spoke out against it i spoke out against the grooming gangs these people are powerful enough

00:36:57.020 that they instructed greater manchester police to repeatedly arrest me on on malicious fabricated

00:37:05.340 so you've been arrested what put in the back of the police dawn raids on my house dan repeated

00:37:10.060 dawn raids on my house first time eight police officers dawn raided my house i am a decorated

00:37:16.300 individual i don't have a criminal record well you've got an mba i have i have given to you by

00:37:21.980 the queen given to you by the queen by the queen they dawn raided my house repeatedly dawn raided my

00:37:27.260 house dragged me into the police station and the long and short of it was they'd not even taken the

00:37:34.540 statements from the likes of arud shah had complained against me and i was told i'm politically campaigning

00:37:42.060 i'm saying things that shouldn't be said and i'm going to be dealt with now the issue we've got

00:37:49.180 is i was not only charged it took six months before they charged me the one time they managed to charge me

00:37:56.380 and for that charging to have taken place the cps would have to have been involved

00:38:01.260 so the cps you know we think of the police the cps you know we've got checks and balances haven't we

00:38:06.940 now democracy we've got checks and balances there are no checks and balances here dan the cps were

00:38:12.700 complicit in fabricate aiding fabrication of cases against me the police arrested me at the instructions

00:38:20.300 of politicians in greater manchester and this is what the government now want they want to replicate

00:38:25.740 this model across the country they want more and more metro mayors metro mayors are also the police and

00:38:31.100 crime commissioner so politicians are in charge of the police and then the police go and do what

00:38:36.060 the politicians tell them to streamline the corruption yeah have you not have you spoken to barristers

00:38:41.980 about you know um you know bringing action for false arrests all of that i've spoken to them of all of

00:38:49.180 that but the last they drag it out dan three years my last you know from from being arrested to the

00:38:55.580 court trial and all the you know the process is the punishment yeah the process three years it took me

00:39:00.860 my mother died with me still on you know awaiting trial of course the trials every time they came

00:39:09.740 collapsed because there was no evidence and and what are the what are the coppers like the rank and file

00:39:15.580 coppers like when when they're dealing with you and are they are they belligerent are they embarrassed or

00:39:20.140 what they're embarrassed they're humiliated i remember the first time a senior police officer is

00:39:25.660 nodding at this young man you know a young a young police officer to put me in handcuffs i'm in my

00:39:30.460 underpants it's eight in the morning it's six in the morning yeah i and he refused he refused to put

00:39:37.660 me in handcuffs i watched that exchange and i had more sympathy for you know for what was going on because

00:39:43.500 it was clear that this was a politically motivated arrest and the police officers the rank and file were uncomfortable

00:39:51.100 extraordinary i've spoken with senior police officers and they are all very clear as soon as the police

00:39:56.940 and crime commissioners came along as soon as the politicians came along to hold that position

00:40:01.580 particularly like in my town labor party uh it's a labor party mayor andy burnham he delegates the

00:40:07.100 police and crime commissioner role to a woman called kate green who was a former labor party mp

00:40:11.580 they all take care of each other it creates an environment where that

00:40:15.100 you know that complicity of corruption is just easy so you you think is at that highest the

00:40:23.580 corruption of the police is at the highest level because i've often thought that the

00:40:27.260 way to deal with the police is just fire everybody above the rank of sergeant and rebuild it at the

00:40:32.460 highest level okay you actually think you think often the the senior inspectors and chief constables

00:40:37.980 there is no way my arrest in the way it took place would have happened if without sign up from

00:40:46.460 the highest level right no chance and i'm not i'm not i'm not a conspiracy theorist i'm not a nut case

00:40:53.420 you know this is someone who just looks at it analytically and there's no way no way and i've

00:40:58.620 challenged andy burnham i've challenged the greater manchester mayor to launch an investigation

00:41:03.260 into what's taking place and he's he's just sidestepping the issue all the time

00:41:09.500 so we've covered the community the police the tories who we agree are weak and pathetic um

00:41:15.740 the media uh what about the labor party the labor party benefit from this arrangement

00:41:23.500 they benefit from the arrangement where postal vote harvesting takes place

00:41:27.500 they are dependent on the muslim bloc vote in something like 80 constituencies across the

00:41:32.140 country yes i forget the precise number of votes but there's 34 labor seats where they're in a

00:41:37.180 whisker of losing against the islamic candidate 81 80 or 81 the muslim vote lot and the muslim vote

00:41:44.860 lot came out of the you know the gaza thing you know the the sectarians they can't stand me

00:41:49.420 which is fine i can't i i don't want to live in a world that they control uh they they calculated 80 i

00:41:56.540 think there's 80 or 81 constituencies as of now and the numbers growing because as the as the

00:42:02.300 as the demographic changes but 80 to 81 uh mps they can directly impact upon and what took place

00:42:11.660 when the 30 or 40 that were within a whisker of losing what took place was a labor party mobilized

00:42:18.460 the muslim element so what's taking place in our communities dan is that there's a cartel element

00:42:24.460 element which the labor party controls so these are the drug dealers these you know these are the

00:42:29.340 ones who the cozy arrangement currently is with these are the ones who the uh grooming gang members

00:42:34.460 and and whatnot are so shabir ahmed the ring leader of the rochdale grooming gang came from my town he

00:42:39.420 was from oldham worked in the council for 18 years with access to children and he was a senior member of

00:42:44.300 the labor party in the town all of that always overlaps you know consistently consistently you know where

00:42:49.980 you see one you'll see the other and that pattern is always there so what took place was when the

00:42:55.100 general election was fought there was two factions of muslims votes that they were going for the labor

00:42:59.580 party mobilized those you know the traditional sort of cultural what guys and the and those with the

00:43:05.500 links to the organized crime who'd benefited from a whole host of arrangements and the sectarians

00:43:09.980 mobilized the islamists so the labor party traditionally was thought of as an alliance between the working

00:43:16.540 class and the metro lefty yeah yeah yeah the disbris and the charlton's is there a third element which

00:43:23.420 is basically just political islam and and how does and i understand how the working class

00:43:31.740 base and the london lefties i understand how they've merged together they can work comfortably

00:43:37.420 together and they seem to get over the conflict quite well but it sounds like you're describing the

00:43:42.780 islamic wing this the you know the third leaf of the clover here has also sort of seamlessly

00:43:49.260 integrated into it as well just in the lead-up to the general election angela rayner went to a muslim

00:43:55.500 house ah yes i know yes you'll have seen her dressed in a longer dress yes yeah and not the mini skirts

00:44:02.300 no no no she was like she was long dressed in a longer skirt yeah yes and she was in the living room

00:44:06.700 of a kingpin in thameside and there was at least 20 or 30 men there all muslim men there and she was

00:44:15.100 advocating of how she is with them

00:44:20.620 you've asked me a question i've demonstrated to you what i think is the answer yes i mean she's

00:44:26.860 minister for safeguarding but she appears to be safeguarding the rape gangs oh jess phillips yes

00:44:32.460 yeah jess phillips yeah jess so jess phillips shouted down she had an exchange at the count didn't she

00:44:38.620 remember she had an exchange with accounts with the muslim men yes i remember but she she wouldn't

00:44:42.140 she she avoided making reference to the religious viewpoints or the cultural viewpoints she she wants

00:44:48.380 to focus on them as men i'm sorry i'm sorry you or i wouldn't be ranting at her that way you know

00:44:56.540 they're doing what they're doing not because they're men but because they have a specific

00:45:00.300 viewpoint on the world yes quite underpinned by either the cultural prejudices or the religious

00:45:06.460 perspective so i mean let's play this forward because obviously this is corrupt to the core

00:45:11.660 the media won't do anything the police won't do anything well the media complicit where i where i

00:45:15.900 come from the the media is very much uh those who journalists are very much of the left yes you

00:45:24.300 know they live in those sorts of this is their ideology and they'll defend it to the hilt and also

00:45:28.780 they'll defend it to the hilt because they don't have to experience the lived reality of what the

00:45:33.260 consequences of of this not working is because they live in those nice areas where they can you know

00:45:39.340 they can be far away from all of islam because i'm inclined to believe that once you got to the

00:45:44.220 point that we're at now which is there are openly islamic five openly islamic six including well let's

00:45:49.660 just describe them as islamist mps yes so let's call them islamist mps so there are five or six

00:45:55.180 islamist mps openly islamist mps at that point it kind of makes me think well there is going to be

00:46:02.060 an inevitable conclusion this which is that will grow and basically white people will look at that

00:46:10.140 and say i have to vote for a white identitarian um even if your inclination is oh i want to weigh up

00:46:18.540 tax policy a against tax policy b and social policy a versus social policy b if there are islamic

00:46:25.020 candidates who are preaching my group over your group well i'm going to have to pick somebody who's

00:46:31.100 a who's a white identitarian i have to and then once you go down that route you basically get well

00:46:37.420 something that has happened many times in many countries before you've seen it am i being overly

00:46:42.940 pessimistic because i think i think that's going to happen so i and i describe them as islamist mps

00:46:48.540 you know very very and let's be clear what islamist means you know these are people who believe in a

00:46:54.460 in a global caliphate yes you know fundamentally that's what that's that's what we're talking about

00:46:58.540 here dan let's let's be very clear on what the desired outcome is of these people

00:47:05.500 and i will fight teeth and nail against that what what would it what would uk look like

00:47:11.100 if it was even more islamically dominated than it let's say um this carries on creeping

00:47:19.260 and by 2050 um islam is a majority in this country and they basically lock up political control and

00:47:27.340 there is token opposition but it's it's effectively meaning this what would an islamic britain look like

00:47:33.340 i have spent a lot of time looking at this and working out you know the worst case scenario what

00:47:41.260 does it look like i think i think they will they is the term i use i think they will carve out parts

00:47:46.620 of the country that is semi-autonomous sort of rule you know there are enclaves that will belong to them

00:47:54.940 where they live by the rules which which would sort of necessitate basically evicting those who are not

00:48:03.340 of the group because one of the one of the things i hear about with a one of the reasons i'm perhaps a

00:48:08.940 little bit um uh reticent on the mosques is is is the whole parking jihad thing that goes on a new mosque

00:48:15.660 will be put up um in a sort of white working class area and then the the mosque attendees will park in

00:48:22.940 front of the driveways around it and it starts off as that and then they say okay well it's only it's

00:48:27.900 only while service is on and then they start parking on their driveways and then they just start

00:48:33.260 parking and it's basically a way to force people out of that area to make it so intolerable but they

00:48:38.620 have to and then they own a sort of area and they build an enclave so it's going to kind of

00:48:42.620 be that it will be like that but on and with rules and laws yeah yes

00:48:50.860 well well where else you know let's have an honest conversation where else will this go if

00:48:56.700 this continues the way it does well the next step from that is is if you you clearly and goes back

00:49:04.460 to my point about i've got some sympathy for them having contempt um for the white people of this

00:49:09.100 country because well i'm angry what why why on earth do you not get off your ass and vote

00:49:14.460 why on earth do you not mobilize well okay so one argument would be that people have been voting

00:49:20.780 and a colleague of mine um on the lotus eaters went through basically every manifesto um since the war

00:49:28.460 and basically at every election the party which was most anti-immigration won the election so the

00:49:35.820 british people probably think they have been doing something by at least curbing the flow coming in

00:49:42.300 um but they've been consistently lied to so once they get elected yes they don't follow through on

00:49:49.180 the pledges and and and go back think about um i've got some sympathy for the islamists having

00:49:56.140 contempt for the white population because they have allowed this to be done to themselves well if you

00:50:01.180 don't respect yourself who's going to respect you but ultimately you can push people only so far

00:50:06.540 and at some point it's difficult to see that there won't be widespread violence and history will

00:50:11.740 teach us that is exactly what happens yes i mean we had we had a guest on the podcast not so long ago

00:50:16.540 who um uh an older lady who who in her youth as a teenager she was in delhi when one of these sporadic

00:50:25.260 outbreaks of um um group warfare broke out um and you know she she came back to her university wing

00:50:33.660 or whatever a dormitory to find two dead sikhs in her you know hallway um you know this sort of stuff

00:50:39.420 does sort of happen and what makes us think we're better than other parts of the world where this has

00:50:44.220 happened because i don't think we are yes i think i think you see yeah i think unfortunately human

00:50:49.820 nature is human nature what's happened in iran can happen here what happened in india can happen why not

00:50:54.540 do you see a solution that is not that yes that solution has got to be people from my communities

00:51:04.300 have got to change and have got to be part of the solution and have got to step forward more and

00:51:10.140 those who say oh it's always on us well then tough it is on you it is on the minority community to adapt

00:51:17.580 and integrate but at the same time the problem i've got dan is that those in power facilitate the

00:51:23.260 segregation facilitate the separateness and excuse the barbaric behavior that no one should tolerate

00:51:32.380 and and and why for short-term gain yes because it always goes back to politics for me always goes

00:51:39.420 back to power what are the easy decisions those in positions of power can make to make sure that the

00:51:46.060 block vote is secured in the way it always has been well and coming from your community you can easily

00:51:51.900 make the argument that that is in their self-interest because otherwise we get to something much worse

00:51:58.060 than violence um but that does require you to basically be a bit smarter than average and think about the

00:52:05.660 future um you need to be you know living in the future and um is that not the role of leaders dan yes

00:52:14.780 is that you know i accept not everyone thinks that way not everyone looks at the world that way but

00:52:21.900 surely our leaders should look that way but and and and how do leaders pushing that message

00:52:28.620 gain traction with the as we talked about the 17 year old lad who is currently watching

00:52:34.780 videos give them a place to belong encourage them support them i ain't got i think it can be done

00:52:41.420 i've seen it done it can be done look at some of the other communities we've got in this country

00:52:47.900 are you going to tell me that the indians aren't integrated or the chinese perhaps or the or the

00:52:52.860 african caribbean you know in terms of the windrush generation are any of them ever going to look at

00:52:58.140 you and say they're not british is anyone from this country going to identify cultural traits

00:53:04.060 that they think are at complete odds with our life and living here which is where we

00:53:11.740 currently are having this conversation aren't we yes on on islam is incompatible with the west yes now

00:53:18.940 there's a set difference between islam being incompatible with the west and we can have that

00:53:23.820 ideological conversation and the reality of the lived experiences of the muslims who are living

00:53:28.540 they have a duty and a responsibility why is it why do we call it a pakistani

00:53:33.980 rape gang problem as opposed to a muslim rape gang because the large demographics of those we've

00:53:39.900 come across are not just pakistani but they're from a specific area of pakistan called mirpur

00:53:45.820 so when you drill it down and you drill it down they're from a specific area of pakistan called

00:53:49.820 mirpur i'm not familiar with that no no so mirpur was uh one of the valleys in pakistan that got flooded

00:53:56.540 for some dam and in the 50s and 60s in the 60s that that tribal sort of clan community was displaced

00:54:04.940 the united kingdom needed cheap labor and there was that exchange ah and and that community is also

00:54:11.580 where you will find you know you i think it's recently made the news as well about the challenges

00:54:16.700 of first cousin marriage yes so all of that yeah well that's a further complication with

00:54:22.940 my argument that you need to be a little bit smarter and see down the road if you if you've

00:54:26.380 been marrying your own cousins for the last 20 generations what's going to happen yeah yes and

00:54:32.380 so why aren't we passing legislation so so not not to be you know uh racially insensitive or anything

00:54:38.220 but this this area of pakistan is that is that like the rednecks so uh kenny badenoch you did a speech

00:54:46.220 uh or a she did an interview with gb news recently yes and she described them as peasants okay so that's

00:54:52.940 what she meant she didn't have the courage to to link it specifically but they're the but the peasants

00:54:58.220 that she makes reference to is is yes but they're the pakistanis that other pakistanis look down on

00:55:03.180 the pakistanis that other pakistanis say we're not like them ah i say and and those are the ones

00:55:09.100 that we thought yes we have them on mass and we bring the all of them in right that was a possible

00:55:14.940 error right do you see yes that's not helpful so um it's like the uh and again i'm not casting racial

00:55:25.180 dispersion but it's a roma community they're not reflective of the romans romanians are they

00:55:29.660 do you understand there's like a roma community there's like an underclass that's yeah moved into

00:55:33.500 this country yeah yes yes quite okay yes no no i'm trying to give you a parallel lap yes no that makes

00:55:41.820 yes because um the the because of course when you're dealing with group levels you just tend to

00:55:46.940 see everybody the same i mean i get very embarrassed when i travel around the world and i see some guy with

00:55:52.540 his shirt off in his beard barely making a noise about football and all the rest of it and i just think

00:55:57.900 oh dear and being disrespectful to his environment and that's not a reflection of you as an englishman

00:56:01.420 is it no no certainly not sir no absolutely okay um

00:56:08.940 so one of the things that i had i had thought is that the reason why you were able to make traction

00:56:13.660 with some of this stuff is is because you are from that community and therefore that gave you a

00:56:17.180 certain level of cover but it sounds like you don't actually get treated much better than you know

00:56:23.180 tommy robinson or anyone else who speaks out of this no they they've tried to put me in prison

00:56:28.380 several times yes these gangsters have tried to have me killed the politicians have called

00:56:33.980 outright openly in parliament stood up and called me far-right and racist yes the newspapers have run

00:56:39.020 stories on me portraying me as a you know as a criminal they're just i just i just come at this from a

00:56:46.620 different a different starting point i spent 20 years working in this field so i can navigate this

00:56:54.780 in a different way i think i think i think that's you know if there's a difference that's what and

00:56:57.980 what would your message to the white community be then because you know if if you're going to get

00:57:02.300 attacked for this no matter who you are you can't do that thing where you basically just have to wait

00:57:07.980 for a brown person to speak out on your behalf which is kind of what the tories have done with

00:57:12.940 with appointing kemi baden yeah they're so afraid of me making right-wing arguments or anti-immigration

00:57:18.860 arguments but they thought well if we put kemi baden knock in and she's allowed to you know make

00:57:23.260 those she doesn't understand it well enough you can see yes you know just because you're of you

00:57:27.820 because your brown face or black face doesn't mean you necessarily see the world differently does it

00:57:32.780 so so it's it's just it's so that that any white people who are not speaking out are basically coping

00:57:39.020 they they they need to be much more strident as well and in in the town we come from we've

00:57:44.380 politically mobilized an entire town they called it toxic politics they tried to shut us down but we

00:57:49.900 have removed labor from power it's took us five years six years of campaigning three leaders in a

00:57:55.100 row white working class communities we've gone out we've mobilized them we've trained them we've

00:57:59.660 educated them we've we've put up candidates from these communities we've politically educated an entire

00:58:05.100 town now and and and the consequence of that is what forced that letter to jess phillips there's

00:58:11.260 no point going and protesting on the streets i don't mean that disrespectfully you can go and

00:58:15.900 protest on the streets and have your day out if that if you think that'll work i'm telling you now

00:58:19.500 that won't work the only way you can hurt these people the only way you can fight back is through

00:58:24.060 the ballot box and that's by removing them from power and replacing them with your own well that that

00:58:28.620 was the original sort of conception of the edl wasn't it it was it was white working class um activism

00:58:34.460 but i mean that attracted the full eye of the state it was shut down very quickly so how did this one

00:58:39.180 not get shut down how did it because i navigated it because i have a skill set and i navigated it

00:58:49.180 and even though they they tried to shut me down even though they repeatedly arrested me

00:58:53.660 i have nowhere else to go down fundamentally these are my people i might not look like you yes but you

00:59:00.620 know this is my home this is these and i know looking ahead what can happen i've been in parts

00:59:06.380 of the world where that has already happened but it's quite commonplace amongst the rest of the world

00:59:10.700 and i want nothing to do with it and if i can fight for it yes and so what if they put me in prison

00:59:15.900 so what if they antagonize me my tactics aren't criminal i understand democracy yes i know and i

00:59:22.940 understand the levers through which we achieve change and are you hopeful that this could be navigated

00:59:27.500 through i mean we we do seem to have some more powerful allies these days i mean elon musk has

00:59:31.180 been rather helpful lately it has been it's been brilliant i mean whatever anyone says

00:59:38.860 until he spoke out the way he did and used his power to just look at it and say what on earth is

00:59:44.860 going on here with the gang rape of children they'd they'd managed it aren't they the establishment

00:59:51.340 here had had contained it the media had contained it they'd not start they'd they'd left it in a space

00:59:57.500 oh let's talk about the cultural dynamics of this at best but they no one ever went to the political

01:00:03.900 space and now that the conversation has shifted to where it's now more and more people recognize

01:00:11.020 this is about politics and power these are informed decisions the cover-up of the gang rape of our

01:00:15.980 children yes and the exchange of our children for votes is a political decision made by people in

01:00:22.460 power who benefit from that so are the labour party utterly screwed at this point because they they

01:00:28.060 as we talked about they need the islamic vote but they definitely need the white working class votes

01:00:33.500 well and and what they've done with the white working class vote historically

01:00:37.980 is they've demonized and dispossessed them and these people don't vote they're disempowered

01:00:42.300 disengaged and when they have voted they vote you know they voted for those sorts of parties that

01:00:49.500 have never got in power and then it's just not been organized now the white working class in in the

01:00:56.140 town i come from is now an organized force and we can take out politicians and we have took out

01:01:03.100 labour party politicians in labour party strongholds across the board so does that suggest a tie up with

01:01:08.140 reform i've spoken with uh a couple of the mps i'm hopeful that they grow because they're an early

01:01:20.540 you know they're a young yeah i'm hopeful that they grow to become a genuine political party with some

01:01:27.660 clear policies and engage with the with a working class community that is desperately looking for someone

01:01:33.980 to represent them i go into these places and it's clear to me reform is the

01:01:40.620 it's not that it's the only show in town people have invested in in in a belief that this

01:01:48.940 is all that can save us yes you know the the tories don't understand it or they tiptoe around it like

01:01:54.700 you've said labour have completely betrayed us i mean reform still do a bit of tiptoeing of course

01:01:59.900 yes i'm not a reform supporter anymore than my concern i yes i i speak and try and engage with

01:02:04.700 as many people as possible because i want a public inquiry into the gang rape of children and i think

01:02:09.660 i need to engage with people from across all do you think it can be done through civic institutions and

01:02:15.420 all the rest of it or do you think that deportations have a wrong would you would you i would you

01:02:20.060 oh i'm all for deportations yes let's be clear i think there are specific i think we've got to a place

01:02:24.780 where like shabir ahmed and he the ringleader the rochdale grooming gang i think he's due out next

01:02:30.860 year the year after yes come on are you going to let him wander around rochdale or old well i know

01:02:38.220 he'd have been deported wouldn't you whatever it was up to me yeah yes yes yeah some of his

01:02:43.660 every for for me it's very okay does that make me far right i don't know i've gone on my own

01:02:48.300 political journey as well yeah you know and i look at it and think okay i'm at the viewpoint now

01:02:54.060 where anyone who's a foreign national who's committed a crime in this country that's for

01:02:58.060 instance imprisonable you set a certain tier yeah or a repetition and you get rid of well i mean i'd

01:03:03.980 go further and just say if you're not a taxpayer as well because there's a lot of people on benefits

01:03:07.180 as well i don't quite understand why we import people and immediately put them on benefits that

01:03:11.180 doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me a lot of this doesn't make a lot of sense to me and i come

01:03:16.380 from a generation of immigrants who came here to work or in the case of my father landed here because

01:03:22.220 he'd served in the second world war and the boat dropped him off in liverpool and

01:03:25.260 he was a navy man was he yeah yeah royal navy man yeah and they told him to drop his uh you know

01:03:30.300 make his own well this is the thing i've always found is the is is the first generation immigrants

01:03:35.660 are actually quite based when you speak to them in fact even if you want to hear blistering racism

01:03:43.340 speak to a first generation immigrants i mean they they do not mess around at all with with

01:03:48.060 you know the way the way they describe any of this stuff um but okay so um a balance of of

01:03:54.620 strengthening civic institutions you know slick deportations uh white people need to stop

01:03:59.820 pussying around and actually speak out about this because um you know you can't just leave it to

01:04:05.820 you know and and government and government campaigns to deal with the outright prejudice in in the in the

01:04:13.340 in the muslim uh pakistani bangladesh muslim communions yes as in a similar pattern to how these campaigns

01:04:19.180 ran when we looked at the white working class communities historically do you do you think that

01:04:23.980 something is broken at this point because i was utterly despondent on this issue a year ago

01:04:30.300 um but it does feel that through a combination of elon musk speaking out this becoming an

01:04:36.140 international story the traction that reform is getting and probably more than anything

01:04:41.180 labor's a massive cack hand in this and dealing oh this is the end of them this will be the end of

01:04:47.100 many of them and if it plays out the way it should play out and we're campaigning for it to play out

01:04:52.140 this will be the end of their cozy arrangement so i do i do think i've got hope for this you know because

01:04:57.420 because because the the corrupt system we we more people now see it for what it is yes than ever

01:05:04.380 before and we know how to fix this and and fundamental to this and i'll i'll speak to reform i'll speak to

01:05:09.820 the conservatives i'll speak to anyone who get rid of postal voting get rid of that system that allows

01:05:17.020 for postal vote harvesting to operate in the way through which criminal cartels from within my community

01:05:23.020 and islamists use that yeah come on we took we we went on a process where we believed in secret

01:05:30.700 ballot it was one of the chartists you know mandates you go to a you go to a ballot box

01:05:37.580 no one can see where you put the cross it shouldn't be postal vote by choice no i mean i mean i'm even

01:05:45.580 prepared to consider going slightly further than getting rid of postal voting and get rid of just

01:05:49.820 admit the word postal or just get rid of voting i mean i'm not sure his majesty would do a better job

01:05:53.820 but i don't know if he could do a worse job necessarily well if you look at what kia stammer's

01:05:58.140 done so far yes and and i think you look it's only going to get worse mate it's not he's not going to get

01:06:03.900 better i mean i i can because he thinks he's right well yes yes he does i mean he's he's just

01:06:09.740 bloody weird isn't he but but i i can see the labour party not existing in 10 years time and by that i

01:06:15.100 mean yes they exist but they're like you kit you know it's just oh it'd be the metropolitan elite

01:06:20.300 sort of places yeah yeah they still pick up one or two seats in islington or something and you know

01:06:25.260 how the lib dems are now yes yeah well they're doing quite a bit of them i mean 60 seats yeah but i think

01:06:30.060 i think that's what they'll end up i generally think if if if reform get their act together

01:06:35.900 uh i mean it feels like they could actually win reform yes i campaigned in oldham for six years

01:06:43.980 my town yes i got two and a half thousand votes when i ran i laughed at myself kept my deposit two and

01:06:49.980 a half thousand votes reform came along no one knew who they were no one knew who the candidate was

01:06:56.300 seven or eight thousand votes well they've got branding straight away yes but it works yes they

01:07:01.420 just need to grow as a party because the conservatives in these places are historically

01:07:07.260 you know it's the it's the it's the cliche isn't it you know my granddadder grandfather or my dad would

01:07:12.140 have a turn in his grave if i voted you know does that yeah stigma attached to it there is and the

01:07:16.620 ones doing it all bored boomers as well yeah which doesn't help with the the issue with reform got is that

01:07:23.340 it's is kind of a one-man band but it and i and i started off looking at it and being uh challenging

01:07:31.340 towards it and then and i stepped back i think no it just needs time if you believe in it it needs time

01:07:36.460 to start you know to normal normalize itself get it get systems and policies procedures it's time to

01:07:42.300 grow i think i think and and and what i always say to myself is if people step forward and want to be

01:07:49.100 the change that they want to see in the world and benefit all of us we need to support these people

01:07:52.940 whatever their political persuasions and give them time to you know to grow and support and if they

01:07:59.180 grow they've got time they've got three years at least before a general election let's let's see what

01:08:03.580 they i mean i personally i mean i'm a touch more radical like i say i mean i would just support

01:08:07.900 anyone who's foreign national or um dual national who's who's committed to crime and also on benefits and

01:08:13.740 stuff like that and after what you've told me maybe this jaipur region the mirpur yeah yeah

01:08:19.980 well i mean maybe you need to make people reapply for citizenship or something and if they don't

01:08:24.700 meet certain criteria um well they've got to be a value to the place something well yes you know

01:08:31.660 fundamentally you know you've got to be a value to the place well that me and the wife often talk

01:08:36.460 about retiring somewhere nice and sunny you know thailand or spain or something like that and i don't

01:08:41.900 think for a moment the tithes would accept us if if they didn't see a value for them you

01:08:48.540 financially contribute yes yes yes and what what about um you know your viewpoint isn't extreme

01:08:56.620 then yes no i oh no i mean i'm so i'm doing i'm doing a segment with stelios tomorrow um where i'm

01:09:03.180 going to make the argument that every political party around today is a left-wing party because

01:09:08.140 compared to basically any other period of time uh even the even right-wing individuals today would

01:09:13.260 be considered left-wing of you know 50 odd years ago um but and they're too scared yes it's too

01:09:20.300 and they're too busy trying to convince a demographic in terms of that that metropolitan

01:09:26.380 liberal elite you'll never agree with them anyway why are you bothering arguing with people you know

01:09:30.460 are never going to be on your side oh well that that's what we do now we just we just step over all

01:09:34.220 of that stuff and we just say re-migration is inevitable but you know the same way left would

01:09:38.220 always say that whatever you know um trans rights or what it is it's all it's all inevitable they would

01:09:44.780 say we so we're just kind of adopting the same same tact and long and what about sort of changing the ph

01:09:49.900 level in the water somewhat and just making the place a little less attractive to um to islam in general

01:09:56.700 things like you know if we we got foods healthy uh food uh standards um um on slaughter but we we

01:10:04.460 make exemptions for um we make exemptions of halal kosher meat why not just get rid of that and just

01:10:09.980 say okay well no sorry if you if you really want your halal you're gonna have to go vegetarian or go on

01:10:14.620 holiday or or not live here you've got a point but you've got a point where you you know it's a reaction

01:10:19.900 isn't it what you're saying is we want to make it unpalatable for these people to come because we know

01:10:24.380 what they'll do when they get here well essentially yes yeah and what my my position is for the love

01:10:29.740 of god before we get there yes here and the people who are here do more so you belong so you don't have

01:10:35.500 to go that far yes because you've got to push the more more radical stuff um so so um any other

01:10:41.820 successes you want to tell us about that town that you took over do you but do i do you feel i mean

01:10:46.860 are you getting more or less optimistic as we go on i'm getting more optimistic because the entire

01:10:51.980 country now sees this situation for what it is okay there was a time when we were far right racist

01:10:58.460 whatever we and now it's very clear we've just had a government a labor party government vote through

01:11:08.060 in parliament to block a public inquiry yes it's very bad look for them it's not a good look is it

01:11:14.700 and the entire country agrees with us i think sooner or later over the next couple of months we will

01:11:20.460 force that public inquiry that public inquiry will demonstrate not just a scale of the cover-up

01:11:26.220 in terms of hundred thousand and more will demonstrate the complicity of a whole host of

01:11:30.380 politicians yes and and then i think it's up to the conservatives and reform to do what they should

01:11:35.660 be doing as political parties that we've kicked the door in we've you know we've we've gone in and

01:11:40.540 now for the love of god come in and help build a better the downside of a political inquiry is labor

01:11:45.340 will get to a point ahead of it um and also it will kick the issue into the long grass for three or four

01:11:50.060 years i will stop them i'm 100 confident we'll stop them we'll mobilize and we'll stop them

01:11:55.260 already you're seeing yeah but my point is is once you've once you've said okay we're going to have

01:11:59.420 a public inquiry that's going to take three or four years minimum maybe five yeah we'll we'll manage

01:12:05.180 it can it can be done in two two and a half right you can be done properly if you leave if you work

01:12:09.900 backwards you but my point is it kicks into so for the next so let's say you could do it two and a half

01:12:15.420 years but for two and a half years labor can just say oh we've got an inquiry let's wait for that and

01:12:20.540 this is a long game yeah you know we've already spent six years doing this there's a lot for me

01:12:25.260 the the the tipping point is the next general election and if we can get the information out

01:12:31.100 in the way we need to come out and and then the opposition parties use it to come up with whatever

01:12:36.620 they come up with then surely that is that you know because they've got a massive majority let's be

01:12:42.620 clear you know they came in with a massive majority and for that massive majority to be

01:12:47.020 turned around and for them to be kicked out in one term something remarkable politically has got to

01:12:53.180 take place so if if people are listening to this and um they are um i mean well who who you're going

01:13:03.260 to be looking for fellow travelers people who can get involved and do things what what what kind of

01:13:07.580 people are you looking for is this is this for a start is it is it a northern phenomena is it

01:13:11.820 this is happening across the country right this is happening across the country and all we're

01:13:15.420 asking for all we're asking for is because we are political we you know in terms of a

01:13:21.100 grassroots political we're asking for people to contact the local counselors very simple contact

01:13:27.020 your local counselor whether it's a conservative independent reform if you have it ask them to convene

01:13:32.300 what is known as an extraordinary council meeting and you need four or five people counselors to

01:13:37.500 sign a piece of paper and an extraordinary council meeting is called at that council meeting there is

01:13:43.260 a motion put forward condemning the government's refusal for a public inquiry writing off whatever

01:13:50.540 its proposals are as inadequate and to demand that the government launch a public inquiry that letter

01:13:57.180 goes to the home office reform the conservatives if you can get 10 local authorities 20 30 40 50

01:14:02.780 yes it gives us the what we need and anyone can do that i see so that's the strategy that's you know

01:14:11.420 that's what that's that's that's why i'm going around everywhere saying please just do that it's

01:14:15.820 as easy as that people think it's complicated so so that's to leave a democracy it's not complicated

01:14:20.540 it's simple but that's something you can do anywhere because i mean i've my my area of winchester i don't

01:14:25.580 i don't even more important than yes even more important to care about children when it doesn't affect you

01:14:32.780 yes i think but that but there's no reason why my local council couldn't put out a similar motion

01:14:37.820 a hundred percent and they should and they should and do you know where we got it from

01:14:43.180 where i got it from the islamists who were using it for the gaza and the condemning of the of israel

01:14:52.300 and all of that and i saw it all last year right now they're passing motions and the mobilizing and

01:14:56.300 i looked at it thought well if they can do it surely we can do it for our children right so talk

01:15:02.540 talk me through this so what if if i'm listening to this and i'm thinking oh that seems like a

01:15:08.060 sensible idea i want my local council to condemn to pass a motion pass a motion to call it so they

01:15:12.940 call an extraordinary council meeting every constitution allows for the calling of extraordinary

01:15:16.940 council meetings yes uh it's usually four or five councillors have got to say we demand an

01:15:22.060 extraordinary council meeting yes on this issue this is the motion they present that motion at the

01:15:28.780 council meeting okay it's voted on who's going to vote against this yes right so i'm watching this

01:15:36.060 and i think yes that sounds sensible i'm going to do that um where do i get the motion is there a

01:15:41.500 website i'll i'll share it with you it's just a draft motion we've produced people have already passed

01:15:46.940 it right so it's towns you know and they adapt it to a local level but but if you share with me i'll

01:15:52.620 put it in the description to this episode absolutely right and all that then happens is it builds

01:15:58.140 momentum and pressure if 50 councils 100 councils are telling the labour government they've got it

01:16:03.740 wrong and we want a national inquiry that's pressure that's political pressure that will give the

01:16:10.860 conservatives and reform whoever wants to run with it from the opposition see what they need to go back

01:16:17.340 to parliament and if they vote against it this is the thing if they vote against it we will then use

01:16:25.740 that record we will then use that to remove them anyway at the general election yes this is political

01:16:30.940 strategy we'll you know we'll beat them this way and we'll beat them the other way yeah well you can

01:16:35.500 imagine the the the pamphlets going out the next election so and so voted against an inquiry

01:16:41.580 thank you into the into the grooming gaze yes that is quite potent and so the whole strategy is

01:16:48.380 centered around capturing power or moving or influencing power that their path of the

01:16:56.460 lethal resistance is in favor with what we want as opposed to ignoring it yeah force them to make

01:17:03.500 a decision and we're winning we're already winning because we're talking about how we're going to

01:17:06.780 win not whether we can win yeah the conversation shifted you see we're talking about how we're going

01:17:11.900 to win not whether we can i say it is it is quite a clever strategy because you only need to get

01:17:17.020 four councillors or whatever it is on board and then you force them all to go on record

01:17:23.100 and then you you and you hang that over them at the next that is actually quite clever i like that

01:17:27.180 and you've got gb news who will go you know going to go and attend every one of these council

01:17:32.540 meetings and report on them ah because you've now got a national media outlet who will you know

01:17:39.260 charlie and his guys have done well yes and they should be applauded you know on this issue they

01:17:45.100 should be applauded well i i will attempt to do this in winchester and if gb news somebody i will

01:17:51.260 deputize myself to go along my camcorder and please it's as simple as that and they and the system is

01:17:58.300 set up where they think we're powerless we're not yes it's as simple as that it's as easy as that

01:18:05.020 brilliant that's very clever well that has been mostly is there anything else you'd like to tell

01:18:11.020 us while you're here we've got to find a way of living together otherwise where is it going to lead

01:18:16.140 us to yes and i dread that which is why i came down and i wanted to meet you and i wanted to talk to you

01:18:21.900 well thank you very much for coming on thank you for having me

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - February 03, 2025

FREEMIUM： Brokenomics ｜ Grooming Gangs

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