The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - February 26, 2026


Humane Remigration ｜ Interview with the White Papers Policy Institute


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 14 minutes

Words per Minute

153.75276

Word Count

11,525

Sentence Count

600

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

61


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello there and welcome to this interview on the Lotus Eaters website. Thank you for joining us.
00:00:06.140 I am joined today by Cyan Quinn, the director of the White Papers Policy Institute, who described
00:00:13.380 themselves as a team of analysts, former and current policy professionals, activists and
00:00:18.660 volunteers who work together to craft policy alternatives that promote the collective interests
00:00:23.180 of Western peoples who seek self-determination. Cyan here does make speeches at conferences
00:00:30.300 and also produces work for the Institute itself, as well as acting as their director. Thank you
00:00:36.040 very much for joining us today, Cyan. Thank you so much for having me on. It's a pleasure. I love
00:00:40.180 your show. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. So let's get into the details of it then. So for
00:00:46.480 anybody who's unaware, anyone in our audience who is unaware of the White Papers Policy Institute,
00:00:51.540 um, when and why did you begin? What was the motivation for starting an institute such as
00:00:57.880 your own? Well, thank you. That's a great question. So my co-founder and I met each other in about 2019
00:01:04.500 and we were both attending the same conference that was centered around the issue of demographics.
00:01:09.940 So demographics is a relatively new topic that's being discussed internationally because globalism
00:01:17.440 is relatively new internationally. It's been the historic norm that, uh, countries maintained a
00:01:24.480 general ethnic majority of their founding people for all of history up until, uh, the migrant crisis
00:01:31.520 about 2015. And so we were attending the same conference. We were interested in the same ideas.
00:01:37.040 My co-founder has a degree in foreign policy and political economy. And my background is in lobbying
00:01:46.400 political philosophy and nonprofits. And so we thought at the time, you know, this is a new issue
00:01:52.880 that's being discussed. Um, we, as a civilization are now on a global stage. We have minority, we're used
00:02:02.320 to minority ethnic groups, having their own interest groups, their own lobbies and their own avenues of
00:02:09.360 representation in our countries. But now that we're facing demographic change in our countries,
00:02:16.400 it's time for us to try to start seriously discussing having our own interest groups that promote our
00:02:21.920 interests because, uh, we're valid too. Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, in, in the, in trying to achieve
00:02:29.280 those goals and sort of put forward our own interests. Um, I've, I've seen that you both,
00:02:34.320 I, uh, look at, um, US policy and UK policy. What are your, what are your targets for US policy,
00:02:42.560 UK policy, Western policy in general? What kind of ideas are you formulating, advocating, and writing
00:02:49.520 up in, um, in your articles and policy proposals, uh, regarding demographic change and how it should be
00:02:55.680 targeted and combated? Right. Well, the number one issue in demographic change is that our countries
00:03:02.080 have swiftly become minority ethnically British and minority ethnically American, for example. And
00:03:10.720 this has all happened without the consent of the original founding population. We've been told that we
00:03:17.120 need immigrants for labor. Uh, we need foreign doctors. We need foreign, uh, foreigners to work in
00:03:24.560 agriculture and to pick the fruit, but we've, every time people in our countries have been asked,
00:03:31.440 we've always said, no, we don't want that. And if you look at the trends, this is something that was
00:03:40.800 put in place over the last 60 or 80 years. And it's something that could also be gradually reversed
00:03:49.600 in the next 60 to 80 years, uh, both, but it has to be deliberate and it has to be something that is
00:03:58.080 a combination of both deliberate policies and voluntary re-migration strategies. So re-migration
00:04:04.160 is the number one issue that we're facing because once we can retain a demographic majority, then we can
00:04:11.520 more accurately focus on policies that make sense for us. All right then. And you say it was about,
00:04:17.520 you know, 60 to 80 years ago that these sorts of changes start to happen in, in our countries.
00:04:23.520 And obviously if you want to solve a problem, you need to identify the problem accurately. You need
00:04:27.280 to identify where the start of the problem comes from. So for the interests of educating the audience,
00:04:32.800 where, where would you identify the beginning of mass migration into the West? Um, obviously everybody
00:04:39.120 can pinpoint it happened sometime after the, uh, beginning, after the end of the Second World War.
00:04:43.920 In the UK and America, when does it really start? And when does the, which pieces of political
00:04:50.400 legislation really start to, uh, accelerate it? Because we always have to take into account
00:04:56.000 it is legislation, it's practical policy that has pushed these things and created pull factors
00:05:01.680 for people to come into our countries. Uh, where would you identify the beginning of this? And also
00:05:07.280 what, what would you say, because we're talking about the level of migration into our countries
00:05:13.040 right now, the demographic levels, what, what's the current rate of demographic change in the US
00:05:18.640 as well? Because we have the numbers on paper, and then we have the, the real numbers as well, because
00:05:23.840 in the UK we have all of this trouble knowing about how, like, they like to hide the information from us.
00:05:29.920 I read a very interesting article on your website the other day talking about the ways in which, like,
00:05:34.800 Sweden and, uh, other countries across Europe are trying to hide these statistics from people.
00:05:40.960 So, so, uh, what, sorry, I've thrown quite a bit at you there. Um, but, but yeah, just, um, what,
00:05:46.480 what do you suspect the current rate of demographic changes and where do you see it as beginning
00:05:51.120 and with which pieces of legislation?
00:05:52.880 I would say the, the most dramatic change has happened since in the United States,
00:05:58.080 you can point directly to the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act. And that's something that
00:06:04.800 eliminated quotas from the, uh, from places in the third world. So up until that point,
00:06:11.600 we were, it was the norm that we wanted to protect the ethnic majority in the United States. We saw that
00:06:19.440 as a natural good, we saw that people who were culturally and ethnically similar to each other
00:06:26.160 lived in more harmonious societies, and that was accepted as the norm. And in fact, that act was passed, um,
00:06:34.320 with the promise that it would not disrupt the ethnic balance of the United States. Um, the, and during
00:06:42.480 that time, a similar cultural shift was happening in the UK. And you brought up something important,
00:06:47.360 and I'm just going to take a quick side note here that we focus on, we focus internationally.
00:06:53.120 So I'm based in the United States. We have a UK policy writer, Joseph Bright. He's based in the UK.
00:07:01.360 We have several people who are from other countries, such as the Netherlands, Germany, Austria,
00:07:08.160 Australia, um, Italy, Portugal. And these, we, the reason we have such a broad focus is because we're
00:07:16.800 all in this change together. And we have things such as the EU migration pact that have been put together
00:07:26.800 by, um, the, by an international policy elite that have been put in place. And so we need to combat that
00:07:36.720 too on an international level as a civilization as a whole. We all have things in common. Uh, we may be
00:07:43.040 different countries. We may be, uh, very different. We may have our own eccentricities, but we're in this
00:07:50.000 boat together. Um, so now going back to the rate of demographic change. So for example, I pointed to 1965
00:07:58.960 in the United States, very similar in the UK, um, you have the immigration act of 1971. Um, and in our
00:08:06.640 country, we went from being about 85% ethnically American, ethnically Western in 1965 to now it's,
00:08:17.280 as of the last census, it was about 56%. That is an extremely dramatic change.
00:08:22.240 And in some cities, they went from being majority ethnically American to, uh, a very, very small
00:08:32.560 minority in just a matter of, uh, the last, the last few decades. So this is relatively new. Uh, and it's
00:08:42.000 something that has been a bit of a shock and it's something that people aren't happy about. And when we
00:08:49.760 look at that, um, there's, when we look at, uh, other outlets, there are plenty of other influencers,
00:08:57.680 news outlets, publications, philosophy journals that cover why it's important to maintain an ethnic
00:09:06.400 majority and why that's a natural good. And the purpose of our institution is to come in and say,
00:09:14.240 well, this is how we can restore that ethnic majority. And so the main things that we propose
00:09:20.480 on our website are re-migration policies. And this is a combination of mandatory re-migration policies.
00:09:26.000 And this includes, um, the humane deportation of illegal immigrants, the, uh, deportation of foreign
00:09:33.760 criminals. And, uh, the, the UK actually has a lot of provisions for deportation and denaturalization
00:09:43.760 that other countries such as the U S doesn't. Um, so it could be a model if the home office decided to
00:09:50.000 make it one. Um, and, uh, so, so our, it's combination of these mandatory re-migration policies,
00:09:57.600 and then also voluntary re-migration policies. The voluntary part is interesting and also unique to us
00:10:04.800 because when you ask these minority groups, uh, people have this assumption that minority groups
00:10:13.840 who are here don't want to leave or won't leave. When the reality is a lot of immigrants are migrants
00:10:21.520 for economic reasons and they come here for economic reasons, but they have a cultural tie to their
00:10:26.880 homeland. And so they can also leave for economic reasons with the appropriate incentives. So for
00:10:33.840 example, I'll go into that in a little bit more detail in the UK specifically, there was a poll
00:10:39.680 that was done by the, um, marketing group word on the curb and they polled, uh, people of color in
00:10:48.560 working age, ages, um, uh, 18 to, uh, what was, was the retirement age? I don't remember the retirement
00:10:57.600 age, but they, they polled the, uh, working age people of color in Britain. And it, the result was
00:11:05.120 that 66% would like to leave the UK or were actively planning on doing so. So why don't we
00:11:12.240 make that a reality for them? So that would, that would also presumably include, uh, multi-generational,
00:11:17.920 um, immigrants into this country as well. The descent, if it's, if it's that working age,
00:11:22.400 this wouldn't necessarily amount to just purely people who are just off of the boat. This would
00:11:26.480 presumably also mean their descendants of people who've been here for a few decades at this point,
00:11:31.440 which does suggest that the, uh, people feel a strong pull factor to their original country of
00:11:36.880 origin. Oh, that's absolutely right. And actually there was a, uh, a great documentary that I was
00:11:43.680 watching. I think it came out last year and it was by the BBC on French Senegalese second and third
00:11:51.520 generation immigrants who actually wanted to go back to Senegal and they, the documentary covered
00:11:58.800 their remigration, their voluntary remigration journey back to Senegal. And this was without
00:12:04.800 any incentives at all. Of course, the BBC took the angle that this is a bad thing. And it interviewed,
00:12:11.200 um, the, it interviewed some of the people who used them as home workers, uh, or house health,
00:12:20.800 you know, um, uh, house nurses or other low level jobs. And they said, Oh, we're losing, uh, we're
00:12:30.080 losing an integral part of our community. Well, if you ask the people directly who wanted to go back
00:12:35.920 to Senegal, the reason they want to do that is because they felt a cultural tie there. And they also
00:12:41.600 realized that there are business opportunities there in Senegal that aren't available for them in France.
00:12:50.080 And, and this is, I think if we start listening to what they tell us, that could be a monumental
00:12:57.280 shift in our mindset and would actually allow us to get these policies done and to allow for
00:13:05.760 remigration without any of the, um, without any of the violent fantasies that come out about civil war.
00:13:15.680 I think that that's, uh, that's impractical. I think it's very important to dissuade people from
00:13:22.320 spreading those sorts of violent fantasies that you're talking about, or giving people a misleading
00:13:27.440 notion that it would lead to that as some kind of inevitability. It's something that does concern
00:13:33.680 people, but we shouldn't be behaving as though it's some kind of inevitability, in fact. And, um, this is
00:13:39.840 something that, uh, say for instance, a managerial politician like Tony Blair has always been very
00:13:45.200 good at presenting the policies that he was pushing when he was a British prime minister as having
00:13:50.640 already been inevitable. Uh, we have to approach our policies from the kinds of position where we,
00:13:56.640 um, understand them as being inevitable and being able to be done in an orderly way. And, and on that,
00:14:03.280 you mentioned the rate of demo, the shockingly fast rate of demographic change in America. It
00:14:08.400 reminded me, I was reading another article on your website and I would recommend all of our viewers to
00:14:13.840 actually, uh, not only check out the Twitter page and the other resources that you can find the
00:14:17.920 sub stack, but the website is a great resource as well. Um, it was kind of a love letter to Michigan,
00:14:24.320 um, and the state of Michigan, all of the amazing things that have been created in Michigan, you know,
00:14:30.240 it's, um, uh, Detroit and Henry Ford and the production line. And, uh, it brought to mind the
00:14:36.320 Dearborn being in the news quite a lot recently, given some of the protests that have been going
00:14:41.440 on there and the way that, you know, a hundred years ago, that was like a manufacturing town. It
00:14:47.200 was Henry Ford's town and he was the guy who put it on the map and it was a town. Uh, it was,
00:14:53.760 it was known for all of its innovations and now it's completely unrecognizable to where it was a
00:14:59.600 hundred years ago, which I always think is a, personally, I think that's a complete tragedy
00:15:03.520 with anywhere because with the movement of people, with the displacement of people displaces that
00:15:08.880 culture, displaces all of those things that made it such an amazing place to begin with. But on the
00:15:14.560 concept of, um, that was just a thought of mine there on the concept of, um, remigration, when we
00:15:20.560 talk about it being orderly, we talk about it being peaceful. So the concept of remigration has popped
00:15:28.080 into being over the past few years and has become very trendy for people to talk about it
00:15:33.440 on social media. But because of the fact that there are so many different voices talking about
00:15:37.680 remigration, it can paint a rather confused picture of what remigration is and what remigration should be
00:15:46.400 and how far remigration should go. So I'm, I'm interested to your specific understanding of it,
00:15:53.440 uh, for a working understanding. I'm also interested that you mentioned that the UK has all of these
00:15:59.200 provisions that could be used to readily implement, uh, remigration that could be used as a model for
00:16:05.200 other countries as well. So explain to me how that would look because a lot of people do have this
00:16:10.720 worry that it's going to end up just being, you know, like storm troopers showing up in the middle
00:16:14.880 of the night knocking on the door and yanking out somebody who lives next door to you purely because
00:16:20.160 they got the colour swatch out and you were just a shade too brown. So how can we assuade people's
00:16:25.680 fears on such things and what would a practical policy of remigration, um, look like using the
00:16:32.640 example of how the, how Britain could implement it? If you can get that off the top of your head.
00:16:38.720 That's right. No, no, no. I, and I think that you're right. There's a lot of misconceptions out there
00:16:44.240 about what that might look like. You know, people, um, come up with these imaginary scenarios where,
00:16:49.680 uh, your neighbor is, you're right, yanked out of their house for being a shade too
00:16:56.480 brown or something like that. That's not what we're looking at here, um, in any, in any sense of the word.
00:17:03.280 Um, what, like I indicated before, the art demographic change has happened over the last, uh, period of
00:17:13.680 40 or 50 or 60 years. Um, it can also be reversed humanely and gradually. The plan that we propose
00:17:22.160 takes place in about 12 years. And so that, uh, accounts for about, uh, three parliamentary terms,
00:17:27.840 not including, not anticipating any snap elections. And, um, what we propose is a combination of the
00:17:34.640 mandatory remigration policies and voluntary. So that's, we'll go ahead and start off with the
00:17:39.760 mandatory. So, uh, what we mean by mandatory is first, deporting all illegal immigrants. And I
00:17:46.320 think most people would agree that this is a good thing. There's about 1.2 million illegal immigrants
00:17:53.280 right now in the UK. And it's, uh, if you include their children and their dependents, it comes to
00:17:59.200 about 1.35. So that's about 2% of the population. Um, these people, uh, could be removed. We also believe
00:18:08.720 in family reunification. Obviously, if you're a minor child and you come here with illegal immigrant
00:18:15.520 parents, we don't want there to be family separation. We believe in keeping you together
00:18:20.400 and then deported to your home country where they belong. And again, that process doesn't have to be
00:18:26.320 violent or, or crazy. Uh, it can be something that is very simple and systemic. Um, you can do it both
00:18:34.320 through, uh, regular deportation, uh, procedures where you are picked up, you're housed properly,
00:18:42.480 you're fed, and then you're returned on a, these aren't cattle cars. These are planes. You can watch
00:18:50.080 movies. Uh, in America, we had a, uh, there's, we actually have a stipend now for our illegal immigrants.
00:19:00.080 So you can take advantage of the customs and border patrol app and you can say, yes,
00:19:06.960 I would like to, you know, instead of waiting for ice to come get me, I can sign up to be, uh,
00:19:14.880 for deportation and I can receive a stipend. It started out at a thousand dollars and then they
00:19:21.040 increased it to 3000. And right now I think they settled around 2,600. They found that that was the
00:19:26.240 sweet spot to entice more people to take advantage of it. And that's a stipend on top of your moving
00:19:33.360 expenses and giving you a time to get your affairs in order. So it's actually a really humane process
00:19:39.600 if you look at it, if you look at it in practice. So we would start off with illegal immigrants, uh,
00:19:45.280 and their children. Um, the next is we would ask, did this individual obtain their citizenship through
00:19:53.120 fraud, false representation, uh, or concealment. There's evidence to suggest that there's anywhere
00:20:00.240 between 70 to 80% of these cases have been obtained fraudulently. Uh, one of the things that we can
00:20:07.360 point to back in the U S um, in the U S and the UK. So in the UK as well, that many could be fraudulent.
00:20:15.040 That many, yes, actually there was a, that the home office has been really relaxed about this.
00:20:22.000 There was a famous case in 2021 of an Albanian who had been here, committed immigration fraud
00:20:28.880 multiple times, and he was just never deported because of the incompetence of the home office.
00:20:36.000 So this is something that if the home office was serious about it, so that that's the UK back in the
00:20:42.320 U S we have the Reagan amnesty and there was an investigation into that particular, um, that particular
00:20:49.360 amnesty. And they also found fraud there. Um, our estimates, when we put together our British
00:20:54.720 remigration policy proposal, you find that on the website we're using 50%. Um, so, which is a really
00:21:01.520 conservative number given the evidence. So if the home office were serious and decided to both
00:21:08.960 investigate, uh, this, this potential fraud and then act on it, um, that could be a very significant
00:21:17.200 drop in the non-European non-British population. And then the third, uh, the third is, is unique to
00:21:26.720 the UK and also is something that is perfectly reasonable. We asked the question, has the person
00:21:34.400 conducted his or herself in a manner that's seriously prejudicial to the vital interests
00:21:40.960 of the UK? Um, in the immigration asylum and naturalization act of 2006, this allows for the
00:21:50.160 denaturalization of people who have dual citizenship, uh, foreigners, if it is conducive to the public
00:21:57.920 good. We actually saw a little bit of action around that back around the time of the, uh, October 7th,
00:22:10.000 when the Israel Palestine war broke out again, uh, there was a lot of discussion on removing people who
00:22:18.720 were pro-Palestinian, uh, both in the UK and in the US. And so if we can do it in those circumstances
00:22:27.600 where we're concerned for a foreign ally, we should be able to stand up for our own interests as a
00:22:36.160 nation. Yeah. And I can certainly think of a community that, um, that that would apply to in
00:22:41.360 Britain. Uh, just earlier today on the podcast, I was talking about, um, Rupert Lowe's rape gang
00:22:47.280 inquiry, which is looking into the horrifying phenomenon of, uh, grooming rape gangs across the UK.
00:22:54.560 Of course, famously, majority of those were committed by Pakistanis. Uh, and this is a,
00:23:02.480 one of the things that we found through all of these inquiries and all of the discoveries that
00:23:06.320 go on throughout this is that it was not just one-off independent siloed gangs, uh, abusing, uh,
00:23:12.960 in like smaller groups of girls. These were kind of like nationwide industrialized gangs who were all
00:23:18.960 operating alongside one another with community-wide involvement, where in some cases, like in Telford,
00:23:24.880 for instance, if you were to arrest everybody who was, uh, who was involved in that, you'd be arresting
00:23:30.000 a significant portion of the male population. And that's just for direct involvement, not to mention
00:23:35.600 community complicity with wives, imams, family members, all being aware and permitting it as well.
00:23:43.280 So certainly you would be able to make an argument that an entire community there would have the
00:23:48.480 grounds to be denaturalized. Because a lot of those people, this is something that some people
00:23:53.840 in the civic nationalist sense don't find very comfortable to talk about, a lot of those people
00:23:58.240 were legal immigrants. They did come over fair and square using the system and then still went on to
00:24:05.760 do all of these horrifying things anyway. Because ultimately, whether they got in legally or illegally,
00:24:11.440 the character of these communities remains the same. It's just whether they've been rubber stamped
00:24:16.400 officially, uh, to get through. And so, and so on that, so how would we address, how are you addressing
00:24:24.160 legal versus illegal immigration? Because obviously we've got, we've got the illegals as well, but legal
00:24:30.960 immigration, particularly in a country like America, which does seem to be, have a certain part of its
00:24:36.080 national identity founded on itself being the land of opportunity. Uh, what sort of, uh, the legitimate
00:24:42.000 arguments that you should be able to make against, uh, legal migration and whether people who've say
00:24:47.920 been here for 50, 60, 80 years, uh, should be sent back to their original countries of origin?
00:24:54.320 How, how would you expect that most people, uh, would be able to, um, get along with that?
00:24:59.760 Well, I first want to, uh, I first want to pick apart one of the issues that you brought up, which is,
00:25:07.120 uh, the, and this is a common misconception in the United States, we've built a national identity around
00:25:13.600 being the land of opportunity. That is relatively new. And for, again, for the majority of American history,
00:25:21.920 it has been the accepted norm that America is for Americans, the ethnic group that created it.
00:25:28.640 It was only until, again, we're looking at the era around the 1965 Immigration Act. It was only then
00:25:36.880 when, uh, the, it was only around then that the idea of the nation of immigrants came out. And this was brought
00:25:48.400 to the American public through the, uh, posthumously published nation of immigrants essay from, uh, JFK
00:25:57.200 that was actually commissioned before his death by the anti-defamation league of Benai breath. So it's not
00:26:05.280 something that had been in our national vocabulary before. It's not something that we had thought about
00:26:11.920 before. And again, going back to the time, if you look at the congressional record, those are the
00:26:18.160 arguments defending the ethnic character of the United States, that the majority of people did not
00:26:26.240 want any change or did not want to be an economic zone for the rest of the world. So it was only during
00:26:32.720 that time. And I would call it, frankly, it was a mass marketing campaign. We were subjected to a mass
00:26:38.400 marketing campaign around that time in the post-World War II era that told us that humans are economic
00:26:46.160 units. And instead of being part of this longer, uh, history of ancestry, nationality, ethnicity, and
00:26:55.920 culture that we deserve to be proud of. So taking, uh, so number one, I would say we need to dismantle that
00:27:03.440 argument. Um, the people are not economic units and we need to stop thinking that way.
00:27:10.400 Just on that point quickly, before you move on, when you talk about the 1965 Immigration Act in
00:27:15.040 America, I have read some very in-depth works on that. And one of the most, um, one of the standout
00:27:20.320 quotes that I found supporting what you're saying there on the idea that it was sold to the people
00:27:25.120 that it would not change fundamentally the demographic makeup of America was I believe one of the sponsors
00:27:31.040 of the bill. I think was a Democrat who said that if it did change the demographic, uh,
00:27:38.000 status of Americans, that he would eat the bill. He would eat the bill? Oh, I didn't know that.
00:27:44.480 Is it Edward Kennedy? Um, I don't know if it was one of the Kennedys. I would need to refer back to the,
00:27:50.640 uh, the book that I read. Uh, there's a, there's a, there's a book that I've read by a very controversial
00:27:54.720 author who's, who I will not name right now because people might raise an eyebrow.
00:27:58.560 Either way, there is a full chapter on, uh, the influence campaign to get Americans to support it
00:28:05.520 or the influence campaign to open up immigration in America. And there are a number of quotes included,
00:28:11.280 one of which is one of the sponsors of the bill, one of the supporters of the bill saying that,
00:28:15.920 yeah, well, if America becomes less white because of this, I'll eat the bill to try and say that it
00:28:21.280 won't do that. You know, he's like, oh, what a ridiculous thing to say.
00:28:24.960 I want to know who this is because if they're still alive, they've got a lot of eating to do.
00:28:29.920 Yeah. I don't know if you've ever seen these bills. They're huge.
00:28:33.360 Yes. They are huge. One thing I do appreciate about like the Ron Paul style of republicanism is
00:28:39.280 just like, keep it to one page if you can. Oh, that's funny. Speaking of which,
00:28:44.400 so we do propose legislation on our, on our website and we try to keep it very simple. We have a couple
00:28:50.160 right now. There's the Remigration Act of 2025 that we put out last year and we're in discussions
00:28:56.640 right now with a few people in Congress to see if this is really something that could be put forward
00:29:03.760 in, in a practical way. And the other is the Immigration Act of 2006 and, or sorry, 2026. We're
00:29:13.280 20 years later in the future. I was thinking about reversing the, I was thinking about your,
00:29:19.040 your Immigration Asylum and Naturalization Act of 2006.
00:29:22.400 There are plenty of pieces of legislation we would love to reverse.
00:29:27.280 Right, right, right. But no, so on our website, we have a few of these proposals and we keep them
00:29:34.560 short, but hopefully nobody's going to have to eat them. So that's pretty incredible.
00:29:39.920 Fingers crossed. Well, you would hope to be keeping your promises.
00:29:43.120 Right, right. That's true. In any case, I think, so the original question that you asked too was
00:29:49.680 about legal immigration. And so again, I think it goes back to the idea of number one, the, the United
00:30:01.600 States, the UK, Western nations are not economic zones. The purpose of the nation state is to promote
00:30:08.160 the welfare of the people who created it. The other argument for legal immigration is around jobs.
00:30:16.800 And in the UK, particularly in, let's see, how many, how many work visas do you guys have?
00:30:23.840 You guys have a very, very large number of work visas. And during COVID, that was expanded significantly
00:30:31.360 to allow for foreign medical students, foreign doctors, foreign nurses, totally understandable.
00:30:38.000 However, the COVID crisis is over and that number hasn't been reduced. And what you're seeing is
00:30:44.240 in the EU right now, 15% of young males are unemployed. And we need to be worried about
00:30:54.720 them and their welfare. It's a moral duty for us to be worried about their welfare over the welfare
00:31:01.440 of foreigners. So resources need to be directed towards training British doctors. And on top of that,
00:31:09.600 so we have both the, there's the medical field, and then there's also work visas for what we would
00:31:15.760 call low, low level jobs, which are things like housekeeping, agriculture, with the advancements
00:31:23.280 in automation, with AI, you're going to see a lot of those jobs disappear. So we're accepting not only
00:31:32.000 people who are filling jobs that are about to go away, but we're also looking at spending money on their
00:31:37.760 dependents as well. Because they will have children, they need to be educated, they are using welfare
00:31:45.280 in many cases for their dependents. And so again, we have, even if they're here legally, legal immigration
00:31:54.400 is still a problem, because our priority, we need to shift that focus back to our young men and women,
00:32:02.160 not foreigners. Yeah. And there's a question regarding remigration that I've always got in
00:32:08.720 the back of my head that we've mentioned that you've got an international perspective
00:32:13.680 on remigration and the policies that you'll be approaching, because of course, it wouldn't be
00:32:18.960 enough within Europe for just one country to reverse the demographic changes. You do really require,
00:32:25.760 especially in a larger economic zone like Europe, which does identify itself as a kind of open borders
00:32:32.640 economic zone to a certain degree. You need cooperation between a lot of different states.
00:32:38.320 One of the other things that I consider is that you do need somewhat cooperation with the countries
00:32:42.720 that these people are returning to as well. So for instance, you look at the case of Narendra Modi,
00:32:48.240 the Prime Minister of India right now, it seems that one of his primary negotiating tactics with
00:32:54.960 any trade deal he does is, I'm going to throw in a couple of million Indians with you. So on a
00:33:02.000 geopolitical strategic level, he's trying to enhance and expand Indian foreign international power by
00:33:10.960 making it so that he has outposts of populations within each country that he's dealing with, which
00:33:17.840 can grant him a number of advantages in many different ways. So if, for instance, even if they all came
00:33:23.120 through legally, we decided that, you know, Indians, you're really lovely people, we get along with you,
00:33:30.320 but you come from a foreign culture, we don't want you to be here, but we're going to give you
00:33:34.960 these benefits so that you can get back to your own home country. How do you deal if Narendra Modi
00:33:40.800 all of a sudden decides, well, I'm just not going to take them? How do we deal with, on the international
00:33:46.960 stage, with potentially uncooperative nations not wanting returning populations that in many ways
00:33:54.960 could disadvantage them and end up dependents for their nation states as well?
00:33:59.200 Dan, you bring up a really good point of the trade deal with the migration component as part of the
00:34:04.800 negotiation is egregious and atrocious. India has 45 million surplus meals that they want to export,
00:34:13.360 and they have 10 million people in India who graduate university every year, and this is an
00:34:21.840 absolute and utter disaster for the EU. Again, you know, we go back to the figure of 15% of young
00:34:30.960 people in the EU are unemployed. This is now we've introduced essentially unlimited competition at lower
00:34:39.200 wages. And again, it's a culture that does not believe in a lot of the same things and ideals
00:34:45.680 that Western civilization promotes. For example, they have many child brides. That is not something that we
00:34:54.800 support in the EU. And we have an image right now that puts this into perspective on our website. I think
00:35:05.440 it's either the last article that we put up or the one before, but it's an image that depicts the population of
00:35:11.920 India and the center and then every EU country around the corner of it. And India is larger than all of them
00:35:20.320 combined. So this is a total disaster. Going back to your question, which was, okay, we got ourselves in this mess.
00:35:27.840 We want to re-migrate people back to their home countries. How do we get them to take them?
00:35:33.600 Well, there's a particularly humorous example from the US last year where President Trump was sending
00:35:44.000 two military planes over to Colombia with deportees to go back to Colombia. Well, the Colombian president said,
00:35:51.040 you won't be able to land. I don't want to accept these refugees or I don't want to accept these
00:35:57.840 people back into my country. Well, Trump announced immediate sanctions of 25 to 50 percent on Colombian
00:36:06.160 goods and the Colombian president reverse course in a matter of hours. He capitulated. So there are things
00:36:14.720 like economic incentives. Another thing that we promote a lot on our website is
00:36:22.720 foreign aid. So there are many countries that are dependent on foreign aid. Instead of sending
00:36:31.200 military aid, we could send aid to rebuild housing. I was at a meeting last Monday and I was discussing
00:36:39.840 this topic with a fellow who is working on a project in Syria to build schools because Syria,
00:36:46.640 if I'm sure you're familiar with this, has one of the worst migrant crisis in recent history.
00:36:51.440 They had 8 million people leave after the fall of Bashar al-Assad. They've had actually quite a
00:36:58.480 significant pull of the return of their diaspora. That's something we want as well. That's something
00:37:05.600 even mainstream parties are talking about in Germany is how do we re-migrate these Syrians.
00:37:13.280 So the gentleman I was talking to said one of the issues that we face is the people want to return,
00:37:22.640 but their homes have been destroyed. So the foreign aid that was going to military operations could
00:37:31.280 instead be redirected towards housing development. And this is something that they want and they rely on.
00:37:38.960 And so if we refocus on making these home countries safe and habitable, then of course they'll start
00:37:49.120 accepting their people back. They want that. In India, going back to your original example, we actually
00:37:57.600 have an Indian writer who's written in to the website and he works for a tech company in India.
00:38:04.720 And he says, you need to stop offering these incentives in your country, such as the H-1B program,
00:38:14.080 because we need Indian executives here in India to build our economy. So there is discussion to be had there.
00:38:22.320 Yeah, that's interesting. The idea of using economic tools like sanctions, and then also
00:38:29.840 I'd not considered the foreign aid aspect of it as well. And yeah, with the Indians that one of the
00:38:36.640 another one of the arguments against the legal migration, I think a lot of people would be able to
00:38:42.640 accept is I read another interesting article where you were discussing on the website, the Patel
00:38:48.960 Motel Cartel, as it's as it's known as, and how the thing that facilitated that was because Indians
00:38:57.120 are not classified under American demographic policy as being white, they were immediately
00:39:02.640 eligible once they got off the plane for small business loans from the Small Business Administration,
00:39:08.480 which are supposed to be able to pull up formerly disadvantaged non-white populations.
00:39:14.720 So I would imagine the reason for something like that being put into law was so that, say,
00:39:19.520 black business owners who could be said to have been historically disadvantaged, you know,
00:39:23.920 they want to start a corner shop, they want to start, I don't know, some business so they can get
00:39:28.000 this loan. These Indians who do not have a history of historical misrepresentation in America just get
00:39:35.120 off the boat and they're like, fantastic, we are already a hotel or an in-owning family,
00:39:41.200 we'll just get a small business loan and then just take over this entire industry across America.
00:39:47.760 I believe the statistic that was cited in it was that, you know, 100 years ago would have been
00:39:52.560 almost 100% white Americans owning these hotels and motels across the country. Now it's like 60%
00:39:58.800 Indian. That's exactly right.
00:40:01.120 The name the Patel Motel Cartel comes from the fact that another interesting tidbit is that the last
00:40:13.760 name of a lot of these Indians who are in the hotel and motel industry, their last name is Patel. And
00:40:19.680 that's because in India, they have a very strong caste system. And you will find a lot of the people with
00:40:28.960 this last name will be filtered into that, the hospitality caste. And so that's, it's actually
00:40:37.680 ironic. I have a, we have a Indian in my small hometown right now who just opened up, he's opening
00:40:46.160 up a hotel. He's nice. I like him. But his last name happens to be Patel. It's very funny.
00:40:51.120 I'm, you know, I'm, I'm English. I live in England. So obviously I've known plenty of Indian corner shop
00:40:57.120 owners and they're all routinely very, very nice people. Obviously with the expansion of Indian
00:41:03.440 immigration over the past few years through Modi's policy, excuse me, through Modi's policies, you
00:41:08.720 know, we're getting a massive influx of, um, shall we say less enterprising people coming from that
00:41:14.800 country who are sort of like destroying the country's reputation internationally. I think that's one of
00:41:19.760 the interesting things that's happened over the past few years. India's reputation internationally
00:41:24.880 has started to sag just a little bit, you could say, but my, my historical,
00:41:31.360 the like knowing people of Indian descent has, most of them have been very nice for the most part,
00:41:37.920 but that doesn't mean that they should be able to displace me in my own nation.
00:41:42.160 That's right. And it's not, it's important to recognize that this isn't a value judgment against
00:41:47.360 other people there. We understand other people have their own cultures. They like them. We like them.
00:41:55.440 We like to go visit them. Um, but we simply don't want to be displaced. And actually the last time
00:42:04.080 I was in London, it was exactly a year ago now. And this is something that other people have mentioned
00:42:11.360 to me too. I was there and I was just, I was really excited to visit, right? Americans love England.
00:42:19.440 And, uh, we, you know, despite what happened in 1776, we have a huge affinity for you guys. There's a reason
00:42:25.840 the British baking show is so popular, but, um, but when I was there, one of the things that struck me
00:42:33.680 was how non-British London really is all of the service personnel in restaurants or in my hotel
00:42:42.480 were either Indian or Eastern European. And that was really, that w that was really disappointing for me.
00:42:51.120 And again, it's nothing against those individuals. People move for economic reasons. I certainly have.
00:42:56.880 Um, but it's, it, there is something sad when that culture is displaced and lost and it's okay to
00:43:07.760 feel bad about that and say, no, we want that back. In fact, it's a very uniquely Western thing to do
00:43:14.000 to, to sort of set our own interests aside in favor of other cultures. Whereas other cultures, like
00:43:21.040 Indians want India to be Indian. Indians want America to be Indian. Just look at Vivek Ramaswamy.
00:43:26.880 Well, yes, I saw a, I suspect it was James was, was it James Kirkpatrick wrote an article for the
00:43:33.280 website responding to Vivek's question of what an American is. It was, it was listed as James K on
00:43:38.800 the website. So I, and it read like a Kirkpatrick article. So, but I might be wrong.
00:43:43.840 Oh no, that's not James Kirk. Well, James Kirkpatrick has several names. Um, James K, he can't, I can't give
00:43:51.600 his full last name yet there. It's interesting. You know, we talk about how whites aren't allowed
00:43:56.720 to, uh, stand up for our own interests, but other people groups are there. There are still wild social
00:44:03.600 sanctions and economic sanctions against people, uh, who will write under their real names. So we do,
00:44:10.640 we do have people who they hold PhDs, they're in university positions, they're in policy positions,
00:44:17.360 and they're writing for us and they can't reveal their names. So it's not Kirkpatrick. Um, but no,
00:44:22.080 you're right. Yeah. He wrote an impassioned article. Thank you. I like James Kirkpatrick too. I hope he
00:44:27.840 writes for us. Actually, uh, there's something that I, I'm hoping is going to come in fingers crossed in
00:44:34.240 the next week or two. Um, but yeah, yeah. Um, but no, it was an impassioned response against Vivek. It's
00:44:42.000 not our country is not just your economic zone. It's our heritage and you can't just come here and
00:44:50.000 take that. Yeah. Well, so on the subject of value judgments, as you said a moment ago, it's not about
00:44:55.360 value judgment. So I'm going to have to play devil's advocate for a moment here because, uh,
00:45:00.160 some people would argue that there is a, a value judgment in that, uh, we saw recently the
00:45:06.880 Democrat in Texas, I believe his name was Gene Wu, the, um, the Chinese expat saying that actually
00:45:15.040 it's a good thing to displace whites. And many would argue that demographic change to
00:45:20.400 reduce white populations across the U S and the West is a, at the very least, a value neutral thing,
00:45:27.040 if not just an outright good thing due to white people's historic impact on the world. So, so what
00:45:33.600 would you say in response? Why is it important that whites remain strong major majorities in these
00:45:40.960 countries? And I should clarify there when I say value judgment, I mean that I'm not making a value
00:45:48.000 judgment against the existence of other cultures. Uh, in fact, they should exist in their own countries.
00:45:54.480 I think that that's great. Um, but there, no, it's okay to make a value judgment and say that our
00:46:01.360 countries are for us. And when you have people who identify as Chinese American, like Gene Wu saying
00:46:09.920 that, yes, we need to displace our oppressors, then that's a problem. And there's actually a,
00:46:18.400 there's gentleman who's return, uh, running for attorney general in Texas right now. And he
00:46:23.840 openly called for the denaturalization of Gene Wu. That would be something in, in your country. You
00:46:29.760 could do that. Uh, the, the, the home secretary could do that because he would be considered not
00:46:36.400 conducive to the public good. Um, and I think we need to be thinking that way in America too. We are not,
00:46:45.120 we've accepted this narrative that whites are oppressors or, uh, Westerners are oppressors
00:46:54.080 of the world for so long. We don't have to accept that anymore. We created our countries
00:47:01.120 for our own prosperity for in, in the United States, the constitution reads for, uh, for us and our
00:47:09.120 posterity. That is a naturally good thing. And we need to defend that. What Gene Wu is suggesting,
00:47:16.560 uh, and hinting at, uh, is what we're seeing in South Africa today, where you have a majority,
00:47:25.200 uh, majority nonwhite population that has significant resentment against the Afrikaners
00:47:33.280 for apartheid or, you know, there are various reasons, uh, and their land is being seized without
00:47:42.240 consent. They're being brutally murdered. So I'm really glad that there's a lot more
00:47:47.840 attention now focused on South Africa. We did an interview with, uh, Aaron's roots of the,
00:47:54.480 it was formerly known as the pioneer initiative and Yost Sridam, who is the representative for
00:48:01.120 Irania right now. Um, they're, I'm glad that they're getting a lot more attention because what
00:48:07.280 we're seeing in South Africa, that sort of, that's what our future looks like. If you allow
00:48:14.240 people to become a majority in your country who hate you and then hold you responsible
00:48:22.240 for any of their social ills. So it's really, it's, it's desperately important that we tackle this
00:48:28.640 problem now and that we're assertive about our interests and that we're not afraid to stick up for
00:48:36.320 ourselves. And on that, is there, is there not an issue with, uh, with white birth rates in
00:48:43.040 Western countries? Does a, does a falling birth rate demand replacement migration? Are there,
00:48:49.360 is there a connection between the two with, with replacement rates as they are? Is it not the only
00:48:54.400 way to boil up our country's economies? I mean, I've heard always that there are fiscal net positive,
00:49:01.040 although I have been sent an article, uh, that you can find on the white policy, uh, white papers
00:49:06.800 policy Institute Twitter account that seems to suggest the opposite. Right. Um, so we actually,
00:49:12.480 we published a few articles on this and this is one of the topics that I spoke on at the re-migration
00:49:18.320 summit last year, which is that these, these, uh, migration populate, these migrant populations
00:49:24.320 actually depress the wages of the native population and they are overall a net negative if you look at
00:49:31.200 taxes. So even if you have legal migrants coming in, one of the studies that we, uh, one of the studies
00:49:38.720 that we brought up was a Dutch study by their, their own, um, by their own government that revealed that
00:49:47.200 non-Western immigrants were a net negative by about 17. Uh, I think, I think the figure was 17 million,
00:49:55.680 uh, euros. I have to, it's been a while since I looked at that figure, but that is a, that is a net
00:50:01.920 negative. And it's specifically, it's interesting that they outlined non-Western as well. Um, if you
00:50:07.440 look at, um, if you look at the UK, for example, we just came across data and we tweeted about it. We
00:50:14.880 haven't written an article about it yet. Um, but the data by the office of national statistics reveals
00:50:23.760 that native British are the only people who are in net positive in taxation. Every other people group
00:50:33.920 is in net negative. And so I understand the argument, uh, that people make about needing more labor and
00:50:43.920 needing more, more workers. The answer to that is not by importing foreigners, the, who are going to be
00:50:53.600 in statistically, you know, against this again, this isn't a, uh, this isn't just a judgment against
00:51:00.800 people groups because I don't like them. And this is what the science says. And the statistics say,
00:51:05.600 um, these people are going to be a fiscal drain on your society and that we simply can't afford to have
00:51:13.840 them here at the end of the day. All right. And, uh, how much more time do you have left?
00:51:19.120 Cause I've got a few more things I want to ask. Oh, I I've got about, um, we can, we can go for,
00:51:25.120 we can go for another 20, 30 minutes if you want. Oh, that's, that's great in that case. So,
00:51:29.760 uh, some of the recent events that have happened in America have been, um, very, uh, very, very
00:51:36.400 contentious, such as the, uh, ice raids in, uh, in Minneapolis, Minnesota, some of the footage that
00:51:43.040 came from those and the ultimate decision to temporarily at least pull ice out of Minneapolis,
00:51:50.080 which could be seen by some as, um, as some poor moves to maybe dim public appetite for
00:51:57.280 remigration or mass deportations. But there is a lot of other stuff going on with Donald Trump's
00:52:02.720 second term thus far regarding different pieces of legislation that have been put forward, different
00:52:08.800 blocks on, um, on parts of the administration and pull factors. How would you say that Donald
00:52:14.960 Trump's second term has been so far in how it's helped or hurt the remigration cause?
00:52:21.200 I think it's been phenomenal. Um, you brought up the recent, uh, news in Minneapolis and that area.
00:52:30.640 And that is something that I have noticed. There's a, there's a very, um, there's a distinction between
00:52:38.720 European attitudes on this and American attitudes on this. I've noticed that Europeans tend to be
00:52:45.920 a lot more skittish when it comes to, when it comes to looking at deportations, but I think it's
00:52:52.560 because you don't have, uh, internal deportations over there the same way that we do in the United
00:52:58.000 States. Um, I, I, I don't know where the, uh, there are a lot of voluntary deportations and that's great,
00:53:06.560 but, um, there isn't just some, a friend of mine put it this way that, that, uh, there's not a
00:53:14.160 reservoir somewhere of illegal immigrants where we can all just go quietly pick them up or they're
00:53:22.000 going to be out of sight and then remove them. Uh, that doesn't exist. Uh, they, they are out in
00:53:27.200 public. They are working jobs. We do know them. Um, it doesn't have to be violent. The reason that
00:53:34.880 Minneapolis has had so much international attention is because the local, uh, police enforcement
00:53:44.000 is not cooperating with the ICE agents. So you've got these people out here who are simply trained
00:53:51.120 to go pick up illegal immigrants and they should be picking them up at the jails because the police
00:53:58.400 should have already arrested them. They should be waiting there for them. It should be easy.
00:54:02.640 Um, they're not trained to do, they're not riot police. They're not trained to deal with that.
00:54:08.400 Um, but the government of Minnesota has been so anti-Trump that they've refused any police protection
00:54:21.440 for the ICE agents. And that's one of the reasons that you're seeing what you're seeing.
00:54:26.880 Um, it's, it's not, you don't get the news out of Texas where there is local police protection and
00:54:33.360 they are cooperating. So I do think that the, the things that you're seeing out of Minneapolis
00:54:41.680 are not the norm. They shouldn't be the norm and they wouldn't be if the local government
00:54:48.320 would cooperate. These things could be peaceful. A lot of the, the violence that you're seeing
00:54:53.440 could be prevented it with, if local law enforcement cooperated, but they're not.
00:54:58.320 No, that makes perfect sense. Um, and what in regards to, um, some of Trump's other policies,
00:55:03.920 what has particularly stood out to you? I would say, um, I love the fact that we have an
00:55:10.400 incentive right now, um, through the ZBB OMAP, uh, to go ahead and take advantage of that stipend.
00:55:18.080 That is something that's never been brought up before. And it opens up the conversation for
00:55:22.240 voluntary remigration. Uh, one of the things that we promote again, the second half of the
00:55:27.680 remigration proposal for the UK and also for the U S includes a stipend for people to return home.
00:55:34.000 So now that's in the national conversation and you can't ignore the fact that people are ready to
00:55:41.200 voluntarily deport themselves because they want to go home. They see it as economically viable
00:55:47.120 and they're going to take advantage of that. So I think that that's huge.
00:55:50.800 Fantastic. And, um, so returning to something we spoke about earlier about all of the different
00:55:58.640 kinds of, um, perspectives on remigration that have been put forward since the term came into,
00:56:05.440 into Vogue. Um, so in the UK, probably the foremost advocate for remigration online at the very least is,
00:56:14.240 uh, is Steve Laws. Now I know Steve Laws. I consider myself very friendly with Steve Laws.
00:56:19.440 Uh, we've had him on, uh, the website before for an interview that Dan did with him. And he went
00:56:25.520 on to Andrew Gold in December, I believe it was. Uh, now he, he has been criticized for maybe being
00:56:31.920 a bit too maximalist and unrealistic in his approach. And he was criticized and defended kind of an equal
00:56:40.000 proportion for, uh, how he came across on the Andrew Gold interview. Now I'm sure you're familiar with all
00:56:47.840 of that. So, so I would like to get your take on that. And I would like to, um, hear your assessment
00:56:52.880 of the benefits and drawbacks of his approach as opposed to yours and, um, whether there are
00:57:00.640 better alternatives in the UK that you would want to point people towards. Um, I obviously,
00:57:06.960 if you just agree with everything that he's doing and saying, that's fantastic. You don't have to,
00:57:10.720 I'm just, I'm just curious because he's like the number one guy, who else could you point people
00:57:15.200 towards as well in our country? So, um, in terms of Steve Laws, I saw the interview
00:57:21.760 that you're referring to with Andrew Gold. Um, I thought that it was definitely, definitely
00:57:26.960 confrontational between the two of them. And, but here's the thing, he does take a maximalist
00:57:33.440 approach. His approach is he wants every single person of non-British origin, uh, to be deported.
00:57:41.840 Um, he doesn't say exactly how or, or what that looks like. Um, the way I, the way I view Steve Laws
00:57:52.640 would be, um, I think he's a, uh, metapolitical vanguardist position. So what I mean by that is you're
00:58:02.560 always going to have people who push for your idea, but further than what you might, uh, encourage or
00:58:12.880 want. And that's fine. And that's natural. And it's something that it pushes the Overton window
00:58:19.440 towards what we would consider reasonable, uh, remigration procedures. So there's a big,
00:58:28.160 I think the first tooth, the first third of the interview, I think is about him saying,
00:58:34.400 yes, I would get, I would deport you as well because you're Jewish. And, um, I don't like to
00:58:41.120 get into those particular conversations because I, again, we go back into, we go back to thinking
00:58:47.440 of people as not economic units. Um, we're not, it's one thing to have a political ideal
00:58:54.720 and a political philosophy that you strongly believe and advocate for, uh, real life.
00:59:01.840 It ends up being a little bit more squishy and we do see in our marriage between people of, uh,
00:59:10.000 different ethnicities and different cultures. And it is rare, but it happens. And we think that love
00:59:18.640 is a good thing. And I think that naturally that doesn't happen very frequently. It happens probably
00:59:26.720 more often now because when you eliminate borders and people have more exposure to each other,
00:59:32.800 then yeah, people are going to intermarry, but rates of intermarriage are still very low.
00:59:38.480 And you can, people naturally don't do that because, um, the, the happiest unions are between
00:59:49.120 people who are genetically similar to each other. I also think that we don't need a, uh, we don't
00:59:57.680 need a particular list maximalist approach because remigration is, uh, and having, having countries
01:00:07.680 that have a natural ethnic majority is something that human beings naturally gravitate to. So we
01:00:16.240 don't need any social engineering to break people apart. And I think once we assert what has been the
01:00:24.320 cultural norm for most of human history, once we reassert that you're not going to have to start
01:00:30.240 picking families apart. I think that we're just naturally going to, uh, again, self-select like we
01:00:36.800 always have done, uh, for eons for all of human history. So, um, I think that, so yeah, I mean,
01:00:45.120 I'm certainly not going to disavow Steve Laws. Uh, I would just say, I disagree on that particular
01:00:50.800 point. I wouldn't necessarily, I wouldn't rip Andrew Gold out of his house and deport him to Israel.
01:00:55.680 But I think that it's fair for him to say that if he wants to say that, I think that he should be a
01:01:01.360 part of the political conversation. Other people that I would point to are, um, I, I, I think that,
01:01:08.880 uh, I, I follow Rupert Lowe. I think he's really interesting. I think he's very practical,
01:01:14.880 uh, practically minded in the same way that we are. Uh, we did a review on his, uh, his immigration
01:01:23.360 policy. And then this, so that's something that was very much in line with something that we promote.
01:01:29.520 Uh, I also would point people towards the Austrian activist, Martin Selller. Uh, he has a book on
01:01:37.200 re-migration that just came out in English. Yeah. So, uh, I, I think that I would point people in that
01:01:44.880 direction. Um, but again, you know, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't disavow Steve Laws either. I think that
01:01:51.520 he's saying what he wants to say. And I think he's also an example of the, I don't want to say
01:02:00.880 anger, but like, he's an example of the frustration of European males who find that they are now
01:02:10.160 competing with the entire third world. And now with India for jobs, for their livelihood, for
01:02:17.440 families, they have every right to be angry and to be mad about that and want dramatic solutions.
01:02:25.120 And so I think what he's saying is, uh, is, is perfectly valid and it comes from a valid place.
01:02:33.600 And I would say that our re-migration policies are something that can, um, we can prevent civil war
01:02:42.320 by instituting re-migration policies because you're going to find happier young men who
01:02:50.000 have job opportunities, who are trained up, who can have families. That's what everybody wants.
01:02:55.360 Um, you're going to have a more homogeneous society with, uh, more altruism, higher trust,
01:03:04.080 higher social trust. Um, and again, you know, coming back to, it's all about the economy.
01:03:10.880 If people can have families and they have high social trust and communities, um, that's something,
01:03:16.800 that's something that, that we're aiming for. So, uh, so no, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't disavow him at
01:03:23.200 all. Um, but that's not necessarily our approach. I would never ask you to disavow him. I was curious on
01:03:29.360 your take on him and his approach. So, uh, last, last proper question now. So obviously in the U.S.
01:03:35.600 right now, uh, you have Donald Trump and his administration who are seen, uh, to be very pro,
01:03:43.360 uh, mass deportation, pro re-migration. And we know for the sorts of policies that you're proposing,
01:03:49.120 uh, they don't get anywhere unless you have institutional support, institutional influence,
01:03:55.840 patronage, people who can actually take the policies that you're proposing and then put them
01:04:00.240 into practice. So with America at the moment, you have a president who is already in a position to,
01:04:06.880 um, uh, to start to implement a lot of this stuff and has started to implement a lot of this stuff.
01:04:12.400 Outside of this immediate moment though, this has to be a multi, uh, like, um, a multi-presidential
01:04:18.240 thing, a multi-administrational thing. In the UK, we need it to be across governments,
01:04:23.280 within different institutions, where different think tanks need to be pushing, uh, pushing all of
01:04:28.160 this. What kind of plans do you have at the moment? If you can say for institutional change,
01:04:35.200 promotion of your policies, what could you say to other people watching this right now as how to get
01:04:41.840 their foot in the door and get this cemented as, as a kind of policy for the future, as a kind of
01:04:48.800 policy that we can put to people as being inevitable in the way that Blair was able to
01:04:53.200 present his policies as being inevitable? How can we change in what ways we can right now,
01:04:58.800 the kind of culture again, in the way that Blair set up all these quangos and NGOs that would ensure
01:05:04.400 that he was, that they were all permanently pushing his agenda that he set. We need those
01:05:10.240 kinds of institution ourselves. What kind of plans do you have for that? If you don't already have
01:05:16.560 something in the pipeline for all of that? No, I'm glad that you bring up the fact that it has to be a
01:05:21.920 cultural institutional change. And you're right. There are, um, we need NGOs, we need institutions,
01:05:28.800 we need think tanks that are promoting re-migration. And more importantly, we need think tanks that are,
01:05:35.440 that have it right from the start. There are many definitions of re-migration as you alluded to earlier,
01:05:42.960 uh, and it, it, it can get a little hairy. Um, the first iteration of re-migration with the Trump
01:05:50.160 administration was simply getting rid of illegal immigrants. We don't want to stop there. Re-migration
01:05:56.720 is fixing the demographic damage that has been done to our countries without our consent over the,
01:06:04.240 ever since the 1965 Immigration Act. Ever since we've had this, uh, essentially mass marketing campaign
01:06:11.840 for economic liberalism. We, if we're going to be successful combating that, it has to be
01:06:18.400 a mass marketing campaign of our own. We're in a unique time period right now where, uh, the internet
01:06:24.480 is opening up. There's still some censorship that we're experiencing. For example, we are on X and
01:06:34.080 however, we were denied our application for monetization for, uh, subscriptions based off of,
01:06:41.440 uh, hateful content for some reason. So we're in the process of appealing that. I think that it's just
01:06:47.920 something that the, perhaps the AI robots pick up on. If you talk about, uh, if you talk about ethnicity
01:06:54.800 at all, maybe that's something that they pick up on. But, um, so there's, we're still facing
01:06:59.920 some censorship, but I do think that after COVID in particular people, after COVID and after Elon Musk
01:07:09.760 bought, uh, X, I think that we have an opportunity now to change, uh, internationally, the culture
01:07:18.960 and the conversation and to get our ideas out there. And it's urgent. And for us in the United States,
01:07:24.760 we have just a few more years of the Trump administration. Hopefully there's advanced
01:07:30.320 administration after that, that we can continue to push these policies, but it is a very limited
01:07:35.800 time period. And so people need to act now, um, financially is probably the most important, uh,
01:07:43.720 number one way that you can support because we need to be able to pay people the way the left pays
01:07:51.800 people to run their institutions. We need to get people out there lobbying. Uh, we need to get
01:07:58.680 people out there writing. We need to get people out there, uh, in influencing and exposing our views.
01:08:05.800 And we have a very limited time period in which to do that. So I would definitely say, um, come visit
01:08:12.200 us, uh, find ways to support. We've done letter writing campaigns in the past. In the United States,
01:08:18.760 we have, you can, you can write your congressional representatives, uh, in the UK as well. You have
01:08:26.760 to join, join a political party. You have to get your voice out there and you have to be repeating
01:08:34.280 these, uh, repeating the, the idea of the necessity for re-migration so that your elected leaders see
01:08:43.000 that they are going to be held accountable, that they can't be signing things like the, uh, the
01:08:49.560 migration pact or the, these trade agreements that allow foreigners to compete with you for your jobs
01:08:58.360 and your livelihood. So I think, um, I think that's, that's where the fight is. So online sharing content,
01:09:05.640 contributing, uh, lobbying, writing, lending your voice in any way that you can, that is very important
01:09:11.880 and it's really time sensitive. Of course, I, I always say that there needs to be a strong patronage
01:09:16.840 network of people who are sympathetic and supportive of these ideas, who have a sense of national pride and
01:09:24.440 historical understanding, need to come out of the shadows and support us. And I do think that more
01:09:30.200 serious, more formal, um, institutions like the White Papers Policy Institute certainly grant
01:09:37.480 a much greater air of legitimacy that can entice those kinds of backers and funders
01:09:42.680 to come out and support for the agenda that we're looking for. Is there anything else you'd like to say
01:09:48.280 or promote or let people know you're working on before we finish?
01:09:52.920 Oh, right. Okay. So probably the, so the, the most important things for your viewers are going to be
01:09:58.840 the British re-migration policy platform. So please, uh, definitely look that up on our website.
01:10:04.760 Uh, we also have an article called an immigration policy as if the British people mattered. And the,
01:10:12.520 these, these are the things that are most pressing over the next, um, over the next five years,
01:10:18.120 over the next 12 years is to restore that demographic balance. And you can restore that demographic
01:10:24.120 balance through re-migration. And then once you have appropriate immigration policies in place,
01:10:29.320 you can maintain that for years and ages to come. Um, again, I would, uh, I want, I want to go back
01:10:38.920 to this civil war idea. And this is one of the reasons I really wanted to talk to you. Um, and I really
01:10:47.080 want to get this idea of re-migration out there because I've seen, I've been watching David Betts.
01:10:52.840 I don't know if you follow him. I'm familiar with him. He's Mr. Civil War, isn't he?
01:10:58.040 Yes. Mr. Civil War. So, uh, yeah, he's in the war studies department at King's College London.
01:11:04.040 And I saw, I read Civil War Comes to the West when it came out, um, in, I think that was right around
01:11:13.880 2015 or 2016. And I saw his recent interview on Tucker Carlson and also saw his interview on
01:11:23.000 trigonometry. And one of the things that he, he brings up is that right now we have all of the,
01:11:32.440 uh, all of the factors for brewing civil war. There's factionalism, uh, which is there, there are
01:11:40.280 different, different ethnic groups, different factions within the same country who are fighting
01:11:45.240 for status and resources. You have the collapse of social trust, and this is exacerbated probably by
01:11:53.160 the polarization that you see on the internet. So these factions can find each other faster, uh,
01:12:01.400 and organize more efficiently due to social media and the internet. And then three, we have economic,
01:12:08.680 the economic failure of the government to, uh, provide opportunities and the,
01:12:16.600 the abject failure of the government to stick up for the interests of the native population. And
01:12:24.760 I see him going on these podcasts. I would love to talk to him where he, he sees this, but there's
01:12:33.800 no hopeful solution provided at the end of it. The same is true with, um, uh, David Caldwell. He,
01:12:42.360 uh, he wrote a book about the, um, the, the 1965 civil rights movement and, uh, how this is dispossessed
01:12:53.320 the native population in the U S and he had an interview with Tucker Carlson, where he talks about
01:13:00.440 how, uh, this, this is disappointing. They, the United States is falling apart. Our countries are
01:13:07.480 falling apart. And my argument is that civil war is not inevitable. The entropy of our countries and
01:13:18.520 our culture and our society is not inevitable. You can prevent that is easily preventable with
01:13:25.240 re-migration with humane and legal re-migration practices that can restore the ethnic balance
01:13:32.040 that can restore peace in our communities and harmony and social trust. So it's not the end.
01:13:39.000 It's the beginning of a new era where we can assert ourselves and have peace in our civilization again.
01:13:46.280 That's a lovely message to end on. So thank you very, very much for joining us, Sian. Where can
01:13:51.160 people find you and where can people find the White Papers Policy Institute?
01:13:54.600 Thank you. So our website is whitepaperspolicy.org. We are also on Substack. It's whitepapersinstitute.substack.com.
01:14:05.080 We're also on X. It's whitepaperspoll. And we're also on Telegram. And on Telegram,
01:14:11.960 our handle is whitepapers. And that's H-U whitepapers. And if you know, you know.
01:14:19.240 A shout out to our favorite uncle there. Thank you again very much for joining us today. And
01:14:24.360 thank you for sticking with us through this interview. And please check out Sian and check
01:14:29.480 out the White Papers Policy Institute. They do some fantastic work. I've really been enjoying it
01:14:34.280 recently. So thank you again very much. Take care. And thank you for joining us today.
01:14:39.080 Thank you for having me.
01:14:49.240 Thank you for joining us today.
01:14:55.480 Thank you.