The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - Interview With Raw Egg Nationalist

00:00:00.400 Hi folks. I'm joined for a special conversation with a chap called Charlie Cornish Dale. Now

00:00:05.760 you probably aren't very familiar with that name if you don't read every Hope Not Hate

00:00:09.840 report on the state of hate in the United Kingdom, but you may be familiar with his Twitter

00:00:14.320 handle which is RawEggNationalist, or you may have read Man's World every now and again,

00:00:19.480 which of course he publishes. Charlie, or I'm used to saying Wren, nice to have you

00:00:26.240 here, and I thought we'd just find out what happened with Hope Not Hate.

00:00:31.760 Yeah, well it's a pleasure. We've just recorded a show and we touched on the docks a little

00:00:37.280 bit and it would be my honour to tell you more.

00:00:40.840 Thanks so much. So what happened exactly? I mean was it just one day you woke up and Hope

00:00:47.200 Not Hate have published their egg-sposé on you and I assume your phone was probably blowing

00:00:54.240 up from people saying, oh by the way mate you've been doxxed.

00:00:56.800 It was sort of like that. So on the show moments ago, or an hour and a half ago, I spoke about

00:01:04.640 the scare that I had a couple of weeks before the docks. So I went to one of my local farm

00:01:09.840 shops that I like to go to and I went to buy some milk and some eggs of course and the owner

00:01:15.600 of the farm shop ran over to me and shepherded me over to the desk and said look at this.

00:01:22.080 It puts a piece of paper in my hand. What is it? It's an email from an American journalist,

00:01:25.920 a business insider, a woman called Catherine Long and it basically said I have reason to

00:01:33.920 believe that this social media influencer, influential blogger actually I think is what

00:01:39.760 she called me, which was a slight I think against me. But anyway, she said yeah I have reason to

00:01:46.720 believe this influential blogger is shopping at your farm shop and could you tell me his name?

00:01:52.400 And I'll make sure that nobody ever knows, you know, that's how I got it.

00:01:58.160 And so that was about two weeks before I was actually doxxed and I considered that a lucky escape.

00:02:03.040 I thought well okay I've, you know, I've come very close to being doxxed. I've obviously,

00:02:08.080 my OPSEC isn't good enough but thankfully, thankfully they've not found out. But anyway,

00:02:12.640 two weeks later on a Friday morning I'm on Twitter in the group chats and somebody says

00:02:19.120 sorry mate about the doxx. And that was the first I knew. So they obviously didn't reach

00:02:23.920 out to me for comment, they just dropped it. And I was, and I just had to roll with the punches from

00:02:30.480 there. So it was, I mean I knew it was coming. Of course it was going to come. I mean Hope Not Hate

00:02:36.720 had included me in their 2023 state of hate report in the fascist Nazi category for my advocacy of

00:02:46.240 raw egg consumption and bodybuilding which are well known. Possibly combined with patriotism as well.

00:02:53.040 Yeah, quite. Average fascist. So yeah. 0.95

00:02:56.320 So well lots of questions flow from that. So what was the first and most immediate consequence of the

00:03:06.080 dark scene? I actually felt relief. I did actually feel relief. It was, it was like a great psychic

00:03:12.480 burden had been lifted. One that I actually didn't know I was carrying. That's the strange thing. So

00:03:17.360 it seemed to me, I suddenly realised actually you know what, being anonymous has actually taken a

00:03:22.800 toll on me that I didn't, that I didn't fully understand, that I wasn't fully aware of. So I felt

00:03:28.320 relief. I didn't feel, I didn't feel scared at all. I didn't rush to my phone to send messages to

00:03:32.720 people. I didn't rush to send messages to ex-girlfriends even though I suspected of. It's,

00:03:38.080 it's a disgruntled ex-girlfriend perhaps. I mean there were fires to put out certainly because I

00:03:45.440 mean the Hope Not Hate docs was specifically calculated obviously to make me look as bad as

00:03:50.320 possible. And I mean they used a very old photograph of me, you know, 15 year old photograph of me at

00:03:56.720 my most, at my most scholarly. When I was about 21 when I won a national, national award for my

00:04:03.280 undergraduate dissertation. There's a sort of grainy, you know, 300 by 240 picture of me

00:04:08.880 taken on an eye potato. So they used that and that obviously didn't quite fit with the image of

00:04:16.000 uh, of the raw egg nationalist, of the, you know, uh, raw egg slonking bodybuilder. But, um, apart from

00:04:23.760 that, uh, I was just, it was a normal day on Twitter for the most part. Uh, I didn't respond to any negative

00:04:31.280 comments. I didn't, I didn't confirm the docs. I thought, look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'll respond to it in my own time.

00:04:38.000 And so I took some time. I took a day or two and then I posted a better picture of myself, which generated

00:04:44.240 a lot of, um, a lot of discussion, which was funny. Uh, and then I posted a picture of myself in my

00:04:51.040 underpants as, as one, uh, as one does just to, um, just to confirm that I do in fact lift and that I'm

00:05:00.160 not, uh, I'm not a skinny nerd. Um, so it was, yeah, I mean, it was, it was kind of business as normal

00:05:08.640 really. It hasn't, and certainly in the longer term now, you know, it's been a month, I haven't actually,

00:05:13.520 I haven't really experienced any, any negative repercussions that I can, that I can see or that

00:05:20.560 I know of. Um, I mean, I think I was right, obviously, to maintain anonymity, to, to maintain my

00:05:27.040 OPSEC as much as possible, uh, because clearly there are people hunting people like me, powerful

00:05:33.760 people. And, uh, not everybody in my position or not every anonymous poster on Twitter or social

00:05:43.600 media has the ability, I think, to absorb a doxing in the way that I have because I work for InfoWars.

00:05:50.720 I mean, my, I don't have a normal job. I don't have a normal life. It doesn't, I'm not going to get

00:05:56.000 fired. Um, and that is still obviously a clear and present danger for. And that, that's what the

00:06:01.520 purpose of these doxings is for, isn't it? Yeah. So the, I mean, the purpose,

00:06:07.280 I think there are different varieties of dox. So you have these sort of common garden doxings that

00:06:13.280 aim to get people to lose their jobs, that aim at reputational damage and get people, um,

00:06:20.880 um, uh, isolated from their friends and families and, and affect their livelihoods. But then you have

00:06:27.200 these doxes like, like my doxing and also the dox of Jonathan Keeperman, AKA Lómez, uh, the man behind

00:06:36.240 Passage Press. I think those kind of doxings are quite different because what they're trying to do

00:06:43.600 is they're not trying to make the person who's being doxed look bad per se so much as actually

00:06:50.960 their threats, basically their threats. And it wasn't a coincidence that the Lómez dox was written by

00:06:58.720 this Antifa guy, really nasty guy, mutant, horrible, horrible looking fellow, nasty fellow called Jason 0.66

00:07:05.200 Wilson, who is hand in glove with Portland, Oregon Antifa, works for Bellingcat as well, which is a 0.92

00:07:13.120 citizen intelligence, uh, organization that has very close ties to Western governments and does-

00:07:19.520 Specifically intelligence agencies. Yes. So I mean, what, what Bellingcat does is they do a lot of the

00:07:24.640 dirty work for intelligence agencies. So, you know, you want, uh, to get some information out there

00:07:31.120 about Russia. You want to identify some, you know, I mean, they, they even, I think they had, um,

00:07:37.040 they had Bellingcat, um, reveal that it was Russians who shot down MH370 over Ukraine.

00:07:43.520 Really? Yeah. I think, I think they actually got, um, they got Bellingcat to do that. They also got

00:07:49.440 Bellingcat to reveal the Russian source or the Ukrainian source for the steel dossier.

00:07:54.720 I was going to say, I was, I'm sure they were involved with that somehow.

00:07:57.920 They were. Yeah. So what they do, so what they do is they get a tip off from the intelligence

00:08:02.000 agencies or they get given a packet of data. Yeah. So it's like, oh, here's some phone records.

00:08:06.720 You might want to look in these phone records. You might want to look at this, this flight manifest,

00:08:10.880 you know, and that's Bellingcat started out as a citizen, like I say, a sort of citizen journalist,

00:08:17.040 citizen intelligence, intelligence, white hat operation. Uh, and they were using open source data

00:08:23.920 and they were very proud of the fact that they were using open source data. So they would say, you know,

00:08:27.280 like this is all publicly available data that we've used to identify these awful far right people in

00:08:32.160 Poland. Yeah. They don't do that. Well, they do some of that, but now they say, actually, you know,

00:08:37.440 we use gray data. We use black data. You can't see that data, but we can tell you what's in it

00:08:43.200 and we can identify the individuals involved. And so, I mean, I think with the Jonathan Keeperman docs,

00:08:49.680 and I think there's definitely a possibility Bellingcat was involved in that. And with my docs,

00:08:55.600 and there's via hope, not hate, then there's definitely a suggestion of intelligence involvement.

00:09:01.760 And I think there's a, I mean, there's a broader suggestion of intelligence involvement because of

00:09:05.680 this letter that was sent to, this letter that was sent to the, or email that was sent to this farm

00:09:10.720 shop. You know, it was sent by a woman called Catherine Long, who works for Business Insider.

00:09:15.760 I may even post the actual, the actual email on, I've transcribed it and it was in my latest American

00:09:22.000 Mind essay, but I may actually post an image of it. So people really do know that it's real,

00:09:26.240 but I've looked on her LinkedIn. I mean, she worked for the US state department,

00:09:30.720 for USAID in somewhere like Uzbekistan or Tajikistan. She's fluent in Farsi and Tajik.

00:09:38.480 She went to Yale or an Ivy league school. I mean, she, she glows. She absolutely glows. If,

00:09:45.040 if she isn't an intelligence contact in the world of journalism, I don't know who is.

00:09:49.440 And even if she's not, she's obviously of the stripe of person who cooperate with them

00:09:56.000 thinking they're doing the right thing.

00:09:57.440 Yeah, of course. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is the thing. I mean, it's

00:10:03.200 one of the things that I say in the American Mind article is that it's not far-fetched to imagine

00:10:09.680 that actually the interests of radical leftist groups like Hope Not Hate could align with the

00:10:14.960 interests of the government and the security services, because they do. Hope Not Hate wants to

00:10:20.720 bash the fash. They want to, to make fascists feel uncomfortable and out them, etc. And the

00:10:26.720 government wants to keep a lid on right-wing populism and, and disrupt right-wing networks.

00:10:32.240 So what do you do? Well, you phone up Hope Not Hate and you say,

00:10:35.200 Roig Nationalist is actually Charlie Cornish Dale.

00:10:39.040 Well, there's a reason that the government has been funding Hope Not Hate.

00:10:42.080 Mm-hmm. And they have.

00:10:43.120 They absolutely have. The Conservative government.

00:10:46.560 There's a reason all of this is funded and networked together.

00:10:49.840 And it's no coincidence that every year it is

00:10:52.960 the same slate of people who are essentially lit up by Hope Not Hate.

00:10:58.080 Because I do think you're right. I think there is an underlying threat of violence

00:11:02.960 in the work that they do. They are hoping that someone will try and Bolsonaro you.

00:11:09.840 Remember he got stabbed on the campaign trail by some random leftist who just happened to be 0.73

00:11:14.480 mentally unsound. Lucky for him. So he avoided jail. They're hoping that something like that will

00:11:19.280 happen just to take out inconvenient right-wingers, I think.

00:11:22.320 Yeah, yeah. I absolutely wouldn't doubt that. And to go back to the Lomas docs,

00:11:26.880 and Jason Wilson, he is an apologist for Antifa violence. He is an apologist for doxings,

00:11:33.280 he's an apologist for beatings, and for murder, ultimately. And yes, I do think

00:11:42.080 they weren't going to make me look bad, really. Not in any real sense. Oh, he went to Oxford in

00:11:48.560 Cambridge. He's got a PhD in medieval history. Gosh, I hang my head in shame. I'm successful.

00:11:57.760 I've got an independent income. So they're not going to make my life economically difficult.

00:12:04.480 But what they can do is they can make me think, should I leave the front door on the latch?

00:12:10.480 Should I purchase some sort of implement that might double as a weapon to keep next to my computer?

00:12:17.280 Should I... all that kind of stuff. What happens when I'm out in the garden?

00:12:21.600 But they also want to make your life socially difficult.

00:12:24.160 Yes, yeah. Has that been an issue?

00:12:28.400 So my, I mean, my, yeah, I mean, socially, I would say my life is difficult anyway. I mean,

00:12:36.080 dating is very difficult. And one of the funniest things about dating in the present age is that,

00:12:43.520 I mean, women really can pick up on vibes. Women really do pick up on vibes. And they know you're 1.00

00:12:48.480 you're not a leftist. And some of them, they don't care. But a lot of them, particularly middle class

00:12:53.360 girls, they push and push and push. And, you know, they, they kind of, they get you to a point 1.00

00:13:01.600 where you either basically have to stop seeing them or you have to tell them. In at least one

00:13:07.120 instance, I was actually found out by an ex-girlfriend. And, you know, it was, it was difficult.

00:13:13.760 It is difficult being of the right, of the genuine right. And, you know, you find that a lot of men

00:13:19.760 do cuck on the basis of their, of their, of their girlfriend or, or wife's political beliefs, because

00:13:27.680 it's just easier to do that. And most men, you know, would rather, would rather have a girlfriend

00:13:33.120 or a wife than, than, than not and be right wing. So, I mean, I've, I've had to deal with difficulties

00:13:40.480 in my personal life anyway, uh, over the last four years, as I've, um, put on the cloak of, of the,

00:13:47.920 and the suit of the, and the mask of, uh, of the raw egg nationalist. But, um, so far, no,

00:13:54.240 I've not had any social difficulties. Nobody I know. I mean, one person I was at Oxford with, um,

00:13:59.840 sent me a gif of a man sniffing an egg. And I, I just knew I was like, yeah, you, okay,

00:14:04.400 you found out of course. And he was like, yes, I follow, I follow all sorts of, uh, handsome

00:14:09.920 bodybuilders for the first traps. And I discovered that, you know, you're one of them. Um, uh,

00:14:15.680 but other than that, no, I, nobody from my, nobody from my personal life has, has been in touch about

00:14:21.280 it, which is it, which is interesting. And I do wonder whether that, whether people know,

00:14:24.960 and they're just keeping quiet or whether there is going to be some kind of deluge at some point of

00:14:30.160 people sort of saying, oh yeah, I was at, you know, I was at Oxford with him, I was at, I was at Cambridge with him,

00:14:34.560 and you know, I know, you know, something about him. I don't know what that would be, but, you know.

00:14:42.560 So, what, um, source of thing you're expecting to come of this in the future?

00:14:51.360 I don't know. I really don't know what to expect. I mean, I, it was interesting, you know,

00:14:55.680 for the last four years I've tried to avoid being doxxed and I've told other people to avoid being

00:15:00.960 doxxed and, uh, I'm, I'm pretty, I mean, I'm pretty sanguine about it, but it's a dangerous time.

00:15:09.360 And if you look at somebody like, uh, Ricky Vaughan, what's happening to Ricky Vaughan? You know,

00:15:13.200 I mean, Ricky Vaughan was an anonymous poster. He posted some funny memes he didn't even make

00:15:19.520 on Twitter and he's been arrested and convicted under a reconstruction era

00:15:26.240 voter suppression statute with election interference and he could go to prison for,

00:15:31.680 you know, I think seven or ten months. Just to, I thought it was years.

00:15:36.560 Initially it was suggested, I think, that it was going to be something like ten years,

00:15:39.280 but they got it, they got it down to it's about a year, but even so it's not going to be nice.

00:15:43.200 What he had done is posted a meme, uh, advertising, I think it was black women should vote on the 0.99

00:15:48.160 wrong day or via text message. This is not true information, obviously, but, uh, Ricky Vaughan

00:15:56.080 was an anonymous poster on Twitter and not some sort of, uh, official involved in the electoral process.

00:16:02.080 So it seems deeply inappropriate to apply that kind of legislation against him.

00:16:06.880 And they showed as well, uh, during the trial that, or they couldn't show rather during the trial,

00:16:11.760 whether anybody had, uh, not been able to vote in the correct manner because they'd seen the meme.

00:16:17.200 So they couldn't even show that any votes had been suppressed.

00:16:20.400 Nevertheless, it was a, it was a partisan prosecution in New York of all places with a,

00:16:26.720 with a, you know, political appointee judge. And so he was convicted.

00:16:31.360 He's appealing it at the moment, but, um, you know, that is a, that's an example to warn other people,

00:16:39.280 you know, basically.

00:16:41.040 It's a clear example to me of lawfare against private citizens in the state, uh, for partisan

00:16:46.720 ends. And so it's, we, this, this is why a lot of people ask me, well, are you worried about a

00:16:52.160 Labour government? And I have to say, well, yes, obviously I'm worried about a Labour government.

00:16:56.240 And this is why I do my best to keep my, uh, my nose relatively clean of drama and incidents.

00:17:02.400 Yeah.

00:17:02.960 Which, which is possible by the way, if you are a right winger online, you're, you're an intellectual,

00:17:07.120 and you want to speak about particular topics, you just have to speak in a way that doesn't

00:17:12.480 trigger certain tripwires. That's all you have to do.

00:17:14.800 Yeah. Well, it was, it was interesting, you know, when I went on Tucker Carlson,

00:17:18.800 uh, so I was in the end of men, the Tucker Carlson documentary. And then I actually went

00:17:23.920 on a show to talk about it for five minutes, which was surreal. Um, I suddenly had people turning.

00:17:30.480 So I had a telegram group chat, which actually ended up closing down. I suddenly had an influx of

00:17:36.560 people coming in saying, you need to talk about this particular topic now. It's a shame you didn't

00:17:43.120 use your platform on Tucker Carlson to talk about this particular topic, this particular group of

00:17:47.440 people. Uh, and I was just like, I mean, what are you, do you think I'm that stupid for a start? 0.99

00:17:54.960 Even if I wanted to talk about it, do you think I'd be that stupid to do it in that manner? Um, 0.99

00:18:00.320 yes, it is totally, it's totally possible for you to keep your nose clean. And I haven't,

00:18:04.400 I haven't done anything illegal. I haven't, I haven't encouraged people to, to do anything

00:18:09.600 outside the, the boundaries of the law. I, I simply hold opinions that are not progressive,

00:18:15.920 not progressive and, and unfashionable, although they're becoming less unfashionable.

00:18:19.600 Yeah. I don't even agree that they're unfashionable actually. I think they might be forbidden.

00:18:24.000 Yes. Yeah. That's a better way to put it.

00:18:26.000 Uh, not, not uncool. No.

00:18:29.280 So just a quick thing. I want to go back to anonymity, um, because I find this really interesting

00:18:34.080 because I was anonymous, uh, for a, probably about a year or two at the beginning of my career.

00:18:39.360 Um, but I let go of it very quickly because I wasn't, at the time I was a liberal. So I wasn't

00:18:46.560 worried about falling outside of the sort of acceptable paradigm thought. I've obviously

00:18:51.520 developed my political ideas quite significantly from that position. Um, and so I've had to do them

00:18:57.280 with my face and name attached to them, uh, which hasn't always been the easiest thing to go through.

00:19:02.240 Um, but tell me more about the sort of fear, um, and the reason that you were anonymous to start with.

00:19:07.840 Hmm. I mean, I just, I started posting. It was total, it was happenstance really. I mean,

00:19:14.560 so the funny thing is actually, so my, my handle, baby gravy nine came from being asked to do some

00:19:23.120 Twitter research on an anthropologist called David Graeber. So I was asked to do, uh, for Quillette

00:19:30.160 of all publications, actually for Claire Lehman. And, um, for a piece that she was writing about

00:19:35.680 this chap, David Graeber, who was trying to get one of his colleagues, me too, uh, to wrest control

00:19:41.200 of an academic journal from him anyway. So, uh, baby gravy came from David Graeber's name because I knew

00:19:47.360 an Australian woman who said David Graeber's name as baby gravy. Right. So that's where it came from.

00:19:53.760 Um, so I was just on Twitter following Bronze Age Pervert and other funny accounts and retweeting 0.75

00:20:01.680 stuff. I didn't think very much of it. I mean, my, my first account or first iteration of the

00:20:05.760 account was called Turning Point Chateau Hoyuk. Yeah. About the agricultural revolution and its

00:20:13.280 consequences being a disaster for the human race. Um, and so I only really started posting as the 0.86

00:20:18.640 Raw Egg Nationalist. I didn't think I would do anything. I didn't think it would go anywhere.

00:20:23.520 And I'm still kind of surprised that it did. There's a reason that my, my Twitter handle is

00:20:27.680 Sargonabacad. Yeah. I didn't think it was going anywhere. Yeah. So, so I'm, I'm, I'm lumped with this

00:20:33.760 strange handle, which has kind of become, you know, famous in its own rights. I'm not going to do

00:20:38.720 anything with it, but yeah, I didn't, I didn't have a plan when I started out, um, anonymously. It just

00:20:44.400 started to, it really started to gain momentum after I wrote my cookbook, the Raw Egg cookbook

00:20:49.200 in August of 2020. And then by the time the Tucker Carlson documentary rolled around in 2022,

00:20:55.920 that's when things really started to go crazy. Um, so, I mean, I just assumed that look, I was going

00:21:04.160 to have to remain anonymous because I would suffer terrible consequences in my personal life.

00:21:09.520 Uh, I mean, I did have a normie job at one point, you know, in the pandemic through the beginning of

00:21:15.280 the pandemic, but I've moved away from that now. So I thought, I thought it would be devastating.

00:21:19.600 I thought it would be devastating to lose. And I thought that the police would knock on my door,

00:21:24.640 potentially. Uh, not that I've done anything wrong, but you just, that's, you are encouraged to,

00:21:30.160 you're encouraged to feel that way, I think, because it does happen.

00:21:33.120 Well, we live under a politicized regime.

00:21:34.880 Absolutely.

00:21:35.920 That's the issue.

00:21:36.640 Yeah, we do.

00:21:37.120 And you know, you're on the wrong side of it.

00:21:38.560 Yeah. Yeah. Even, even a conservative government, you know, I mean, the conservatives really,

00:21:44.320 you know, were, it was very interesting, for example, you know, with the George Galloway stuff,

00:21:48.880 that they, with the challenge from George Galloway, that they used the rising Islamic vote,

00:21:55.200 the power of the rising sort of Islamic demographic. Rishi Sunat holds a press conference and all he talks

00:22:00.640 about is the far right. It's crazy, isn't it?

00:22:02.800 Yeah, it's mad. But that is, that is, you know, the conservatives actually, in many respects,

00:22:07.360 I think, were even more fearful of the real right than the left, because, um,

00:22:11.920 Well, they're actually vulnerable to them.

00:22:13.360 They are, exactly. And I mean, look what happened in the, in the election. I mean, reform,

00:22:18.320 whatever happens with reform, people were voting for reform, not just as a protest vote, but also

00:22:24.000 because reform represented a, a genuine alternative that might do something about immigration.

00:22:29.200 Hasn't panned out brilliantly. Well, quite. But, but, but, you know, so, so the real right

00:22:33.920 was a genuine threat to the conservative party. So they were right to identify, to identify that and

00:22:39.600 to, and to do something about it, I suppose, in the interest of self-preservation. But, um, uh, yeah,

00:22:45.760 it's, it's an interesting situation. And I don't, I don't know whether I am going to get in, in trouble.

00:22:51.360 I mean, I have a high enough profile and I have high enough, and I have some pretty powerful

00:22:55.600 contacts and I know, um, you know, powerful people. And just, just a quick thing as well. Um,

00:23:02.480 you're not from the right class to fall under that kind of purview. Yeah. Because I, I've noticed that,

00:23:08.880 um, the police forces are very politicized through, with DEI, LGBT wokeness and that sort of stuff.

00:23:16.960 But they only tend, if you look at the people who are actually, you know, you get the TikTok video of

00:23:21.040 some lady or some man who's posted something transphobic or something like that. Yeah.

00:23:25.200 They always have working class accents. People with an accent like mine and going up to sort of 0.69

00:23:29.680 an accent like yours. I've had no problem with the police. Yeah. 1.00

00:23:32.880 I doubt you'll have problem with police. Yeah.

00:23:34.640 Because I think the people involved are from the sort of higher end of the working class and of,

00:23:40.880 the, the, the, the Marxist critique of the police is not entirely wrong when it comes to keeping

00:23:46.480 down the working classes. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, 0.96

00:23:48.560 I think I'm not involved explicitly or, or even tacitly in organization. I'm not,

00:23:54.560 I'm not organizing marches. I'm not organizing protests or anything like that. I'm just a right-wing

00:23:59.920 person writing essays and books and making podcast appearances and all that kind of stuff. But, uh,

00:24:06.640 but nevertheless, I mean, the fear, the fear is there and we will, we will see. I mean, I, yeah,

00:24:12.240 it's not the best thing to have a Labour government, but no, I mean, honestly, they've in some respects

00:24:18.000 been better than the Tories already. Yeah, that's true.

00:24:20.560 But anyway, uh, I guess to finish up then, do you have any advice to any right-wing anonymous internet

00:24:27.840 posters who may end up in the sites of Hope Not Hate or someone like them in the future?

00:24:35.440 Uh, yeah, I'd have a couple of different pieces of information. The first thing is, I mean,

00:24:40.240 just don't post any personal information. Don't even post, don't even post photos of foodstuffs,

00:24:45.520 because that's one of the ways that I was, well, that's one of the things that this woman, 0.88

00:24:50.240 Catherine Long at Business Insider picked up on was a picture of a raw egg, a raw milk carton.

00:24:55.280 Sorry. I was going to say, they didn't, they didn't, they didn't map out egg consumption by counting.

00:25:00.320 Yeah. No, this is a remarkable egg consumption. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they could,

00:25:04.880 they could have done that, um, uh, and caught me red handed. But, um, yeah, just don't post any

00:25:11.360 pictures. And in fact, what I would say is if you want to remain anonymous, a good strategy might be

00:25:17.280 to seed false information on the, on the internet, on your account. So, you know, here's my, here's my

00:25:26.000 morning view. And you post a picture of the Lake District and you live in Cornwall, you know,

00:25:29.760 simple things like that, that aren't obtrusive, that just fit in with the rest of your posting.

00:25:35.040 Uh, maybe some fake information about a job you did, you know, I was in the, you know,

00:25:39.040 I was in the, I remember what it was like in the forces and you weren't in the forces,

00:25:42.640 all that kind of stuff. You can do that sort of thing. Um, but yes, I mean, primarily you want to

00:25:47.680 avoid posting any personal information, including in group chats as well, because group chats get leaked.

00:25:53.760 Yeah. And there's been this, there's been this absurd persistent rumor that I'm a Libyan Jew

00:25:59.040 because I was talking in a, in a group chat. We were talking about Gaddafi, actually in a group chat,

00:26:04.880 you know, because people often post memes about Gaddafi, you know, inviting 50 Italian models to,

00:26:12.880 uh, to his palace and then giving them all copies of the Quran and all that sort of stuff.

00:26:16.080 I thought it was 500.

00:26:17.040 It might've been 500. Yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot of Italian models. 0.99

00:26:20.080 It was shocking me to give them an hour long lecture on the Quran, to be honest.

00:26:23.520 But so I said, look, my, my mother was raised in Libya because my grandfather was in the RAF

00:26:29.120 and he was posted there. She was born in Singapore, but, um, when he was posted there, but, um,

00:26:34.640 there was a, a selected, a section of what I had said was then posted

00:26:40.960 on people's timelines. And then that became that my family was expelled from Libya by Gaddafi in 1970,

00:26:46.640 when he expelled the Jews. And, you know, so don't think there is no private on social media.

00:26:52.320 Yeah.

00:26:52.480 And that includes private messages. So, so don't make that mistake.

00:26:56.960 Just as a quick thing, I'd really like to bolster that point by just saying anything you put on

00:27:01.920 the internet, you should consider public knowledge.

00:27:04.000 Yes, quite.

00:27:05.040 Yes.

00:27:05.600 You're exactly right. Any private conversation, no matter how much you trust the person.

00:27:08.480 Yep.

00:27:08.880 It doesn't even matter if they don't leak it. You're putting it on an enemy's platform.

00:27:13.600 Uh, and it's also, and it's also true about Twitter. I don't know whether it's still true now,

00:27:18.800 but there were insiders at Twitter who were looking at messages, who were looking at messages

00:27:23.760 and giving them to people like, there's a chap called Travis Brown who works in Germany.

00:27:28.480 Right.

00:27:29.120 And he has been given money by the German government to map networks of, of right-wingers

00:27:34.080 in Europe and America. And he is constantly archiving stuff and hope not hate use his archives.

00:27:40.240 I know they do. Um, uh, because I mean, hope not hate in their state of hate report,

00:27:46.080 then they had a picture that I posted very briefly in 2020 and deleted that was like a physique picture.

00:27:52.720 And I, I blocked out my face, but I thought actually, no, I should take this down. So I took it down.

00:27:56.560 So he got a snapshot of that when I posted that. And then that ended up two years later

00:28:01.440 or three years later in the state of hate report. So, you know, just none of that.

00:28:05.840 Nothing is private, even if it appears to be. The other thing I think I would say is that

00:28:11.680 if, uh, if you do get doxxed, I think you have to, I think you have to realize that people like

00:28:19.520 hope not hate can't be bargained with or reasoned with. They're like the Terminator in that regard.

00:28:24.720 Um, uh, absolutely are. You know, like,

00:28:28.080 I don't, don't send the messages saying you're ruining my life. Why are you doing this?

00:28:34.240 Yeah. Have some dignity.

00:28:35.600 I think you absolutely do have to stand by what you've done and who you are. Um, uh,

00:28:42.880 otherwise you are, you're providing them with a victory. I mean, I think they wanted me

00:28:47.120 to deactivate my account and all that sort of stuff. I'm just not going to do that. I mean,

00:28:51.360 I'm not, I stand behind everything I've said. I stand behind everything I've done. I stand behind

00:28:56.000 who I am, uh, the persona and, and me as an actual person. So, uh, yeah, have some dignity,

00:29:03.920 except that these are, that these people are your enemy, that they are doing this as a,

00:29:08.560 as a way potentially to hurt you and your family.

00:29:11.120 And just a quick thing there. It's not just Hope Night. It's the journalists who will use

00:29:16.240 their reporting. They will message you as if they are your friends. They will send you friendly

00:29:21.200 messages to say, oh, hello, I'm just doing a piece. Could you get it? Don't, don't give them

00:29:25.440 anything. This is a deception. This is a cover. They are trying, as you say, to ruin your life and to

00:29:31.440 ultimately make you delete your own accounts from the internet and withdraw entirely. Yeah. And there was,

00:29:36.640 I mean, on, on the subject of journalists laundering these doxes, then there was a piece in the

00:29:41.760 Independent about JD Vance and the fact that he follows me and BAP and, uh, other people. And

00:29:48.960 within the first paragraph, then they had, they had referenced the Hope Not Hate dox of me. Um,

00:29:54.880 it hadn't, they hadn't sort of couched it as being, oh, this is who Roig Nationalist is. They just wrote

00:29:59.600 the words far right bodybuilders and then linked it there. So what they do is these, these journalists,

00:30:06.000 uh, they build up almost like a network of citations. Yes. That's what they do. They,

00:30:11.840 they launder this material that's, that's possibly, you know, obtained in a, in an illegal manner or

00:30:17.680 certainly in contact with government authorities. Um, and they make it respectable. They cite it and

00:30:23.680 then someone else cites it and then it's been established as a credible source. You know,

00:30:27.200 this is Roig Nationalist. This is who he is. You know, it's interesting. Edmund Burke, 0.75

00:30:30.240 in his reflections on the revolution in France, pointed out that in his day, the, the liberals

00:30:36.160 would create this, I can't remember exactly the term he used, some sort of litany of crimes or,

00:30:40.640 you know, litany of history, uh, that was, it was exactly the same. These are the things that have

00:30:45.440 been done that are anti-leftist or unacceptable to the leftists. And they'll parade those around

00:30:50.960 as if you're supposed to give them any credence. Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, the, the Hope Not Hate,

00:30:55.840 uh, expose. I mean, it's pretty visible, the charges. It's just, he's right wing. I mean,

00:31:00.640 at one point they said, they basically said he doesn't, uh, he uses irony and he doesn't actually

00:31:07.520 say what he believes, but we know what he believes, which is, of course, you know, I'm, I'm some sort

00:31:11.680 of Hitlerian figure. Um, uh, and that's what they do, but they use these buzzwords. They make 0.88

00:31:18.640 associations with people like Bronze Age Pervert and, uh, the broader sort of far right ecosystem 0.79

00:31:25.680 that's, uh, such a danger. And, um, and, and what they want to do as well is they want to suggest

00:31:31.840 that there are going to be real world consequences. So there was this absurd piece that was published

00:31:36.720 a couple of, I think it was almost two years ago now actually, by the Global Network on Extremism

00:31:42.240 and Technology, which is a meta funded think tank. And they do all this really spurious research on

00:31:48.480 the online right. And, um, they did a piece called the emerging, um, the emerging raw food movement

00:31:56.880 and the great reset. And it was basically about, about me and about Bronze Age Pervert and some 0.66

00:32:01.360 other people, Mike Marr, about how advocating consumption of raw milk and raw eggs and a return

00:32:08.160 to ancestral diets is far right extremism. And, but at the end, the kicker was in the final paragraph.

00:32:15.040 They say, this has the potential to spill over from the internet into acts of real world violence,

00:32:20.640 like the Unabomber basically. So what, what violence are we talking about?

00:32:24.080 And I've written a raw egg cookbook where I show you how to make no churn ice cream.

00:32:29.040 Acts of real world culinary expertise. Yeah, exactly. But that, but that's what they do

00:32:33.200 because they have these words, these very particular phrases and these very particular plays that they

00:32:37.520 make time and again, and they work. And, you know, um, they're certainly good at making the sort of

00:32:43.520 liberal elite flighty. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so, yeah, I mean, like, uh,

00:32:50.640 you know, I went on Eric Metaxas's show and we got on really well. And we talked about a piece

00:32:55.760 that I had written for the Claremont Institute about George Floyd, about Derek Chauvin, uh,

00:33:00.960 because Derek Chauvin was, had launched an appeal at the Supreme Court. This was almost like, this must

00:33:05.600 have been a year and a half ago at least. And I said, you know, actually, the Chauvin case deserves to be

00:33:10.480 heard on its merits in the Supreme Court. And that could be the beginning of a, of a kind of landslide,

00:33:17.120 um, movement against the sort of racial revolution that's taking place in the, in the U S and we got

00:33:24.000 on really well and we talked. And then I think he was told by someone, you know, Oh, have you seen

00:33:30.640 this piece about Roy Ignatius? You know, he's a, he's a, he's an extremist. He's a dangerous person.

00:33:35.200 And it was probably might've been that, um, global network on extremism and technology piece, but

00:33:40.640 he's like, the podcast comes down. It's all, it's all gone. And that is exactly what it does.

00:33:45.520 It's trying, they're trying to cut you off from respectable society and from, from normal people

00:33:51.440 and, and isolate you and also alert the authorities to your existence if they're not aware of your

00:33:56.480 existence already. The same thing happened with me and Joe Rogan, uh, the, when Joe Rogan went over

00:34:01.360 to Spotify, almost all of his podcasts went across with him apart from a select few. And mine was

00:34:06.080 one that didn't. And of course, Joe won't have me on again because he's just been made, okay,

00:34:10.880 there's something dangerous in this area. I can't go over there. And I mean, I don't blame them for

00:34:17.360 doing that. It's sensible for their own careers and whatnot, but, uh, but it's something to be aware of.

00:34:23.040 Anyway, so any final thoughts on your doxing just before we end?

00:34:27.120 It's been jolly good fun, actually. It's been great to come here, certainly, and, uh, speak in the flesh,

00:34:33.840 and, uh, I hope to do it again.

00:34:35.840 Because I, I tell you, you are right. There is something liberating about it. Once you realize,

00:34:40.000 actually, I'm off the edge of the cliff, but I can fly.

00:34:42.160 Yeah.

00:34:42.880 Because suddenly, you know, the, the sky's the limit, as it were. But, uh, Charlie,

00:34:46.560 thank you so much for coming.

00:34:47.440 It was a pleasure. Thank you.

00:34:48.560 And, uh, I'm sure we'll see you again.

00:34:49.840 I hope so.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - August 05, 2024

Interview With Raw Egg Nationalist

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